Art Bell

All Episodes

Previous Next

Sept. 19, 2002 - Art Bell

02:53:40

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Paul Moller - Sky Cars

Participants

Main voices

01:12:20

paul moller

59:50

Appearances

Clips

amazing kreskin

00:45

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from September 19th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the known universe, all those time zones.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
		Hello there, everybody.
		Well, at about 7, shortly after 7.30 this evening, the KNYE telephone began to ring off the hook, and people were saying, Oh, my God, it's a UFO!
unidentified		It's a UFO!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a UFO out west here.
		Oh, indeed.
		There was a UFO shortly after 7.30 this evening, but now it's an IFO identified flying object.
		We know what it was, and it was quite spectacular.
		And by the way, that's, of course, KMYE, our little radio station here in Front, Nevada, on 95.1.
		And you can also hear it in Las Vegas, in some parts of Las Vegas anyway, at 100.1.
		That's 100.1 in parts of Las Vegas.
		Check it out.
		Now, that phone rang and rang and rang.
		And one lady called and said, are we going to war?
		Well, that's not as far off base as you might imagine.
		What was launched was a Minuteman III Intercontinental Ballistic Missile.
		It left Vandenberg at 7.36 p.m.
		It's the perfect time.
		You know, the sun is just down, but at altitude, the sun is still up.
		And so when they launch an ICBM at about that time, it gets into the sky and the sun hits it, and it's a two-stager headed off to the Marshall Islands, 4,200 miles where it was hopefully going to strike the target.
		You know, the mission was directed by the 576th Flight Test Squadron at Vandenberg and the 341st Space Wing from Maelstrom Air Force Base in Montana.
		Purpose to test launch systems and the missiles' accuracy and reliability, and it had two unarmed re-entry vehicles.
		So it was really spectacular.
		Now, what we have done in short order is to put a montage of rocket launch contrail photos.
		Now, we get those, you know, you as an audience, you're great.
		And everybody ran out with their cameras.
		And so from California to Arizona to Nevada, we've got a montage up at this hour of what it looked like out here in the West so that all of you all over the country can see why people totally freak out.
		We've got, let me count them.
		One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine photographs up there presently for you to look at of the rocket launch contrails from Vandenberg today, tonight.
		It really was cool, and these really are cool photographs.
		So my thanks, as always, to Keith Rowan, my webmaster, for getting them up, just like that.
		And so we now have an IFO, but it is a beautiful one, and you really need to get on your computer.
		Go to artpel.com under what's new.
		It would be the very first item.
		Wherever you are in the country, you can take a look at what we saw out here in the West.
		Now, since it was an ICBM, what that lady said wasn't so far off target, it's just there weren't enough for them.
		Now, if you ever see what's depicted here and you see hundreds of those, then I would say time to duck and cover.
		You know, under your desk, hands over the back of your neck, head between the knees, knees first.
		That would be the real McCoy.
		This wasn't a real Noel.
		It was a real McCoy.
		It just wasn't a war.
		But it sure looked like it.
		So if you want to see, I mean, it doesn't matter if you're in Philadelphia and you want to see what we saw out west here that caused the big stir tonight.
		We've got a wonderful montage of photographs taken all over the southwest of what a missile launch looks like when it goes up from Vandenberg.
		Actually, it'd be a good idea for everybody to look at this so that you understand what it is that it looks like.
		And next time you see it, you won't think, oop, it's the little ring guys.
		Not this time.
		In a moment, we'll take a look at what else is going on out there.
unidentified		The End Weird stories on the radio.
		Must be Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		You know, when I started doing this radio program, Jesse, half of the subjects I was really into, the paranormal, the unusual, ghosts, and things like that.
		The conspiracy stories, you know, I was a little weary about these, other than the Kennedy assassination.
		And all of a sudden, I woke up.
		I simply woke up.
		Is that what happened with you two?
		Yeah, that's when I really started to say, what is going on here?
		And I started to truly then investigate 9-11.
		And today, I don't believe the government story of 9-11.
		Here's the three options.
		Either we knew about it and allowed it to happen, or we knew about it and participated in it, or these were the dumbest buffoons that could have ever been in charge of our country who could have all this pre-information.
		And I started to think they knew it was going to happen.
		They either are part of it or they allowed it to.
		There's no doubt in my mind.
		And now we take you back to the night of September 19th, 2002, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's look briefly around the rest of the world, see this pretty interesting story.
		Oh, tonight, Paul Mueller is going to be here.
		The Sky Car Paul Mueller.
		Now, all my life, I have dreamed about the public having a Skycar.
		And I, you know, a car you could go out and get into and just hit lift off and up you go and away you go.
		Now, if I had that here, Las Vegas, you know, 65 miles, not as the crow flies, but as you've got to drive.
		Just over the mountain.
		If I had a sky car, 20 minutes I'd be in Las Vegas.
		From the time I hit the button, maybe less.
		Oh, God, I would love it.
		Well, Paul Mueller, who's the CEO of that company, came on the show.
		You know, it's got to be a year and a half, two years ago.
		And he has not wanted to come on since because he didn't want to come on until he had news, good news about the Skycar.
		Tonight, he comes with good news.
		And we'll all take a look at it and talk to him about what's coming and whether there's a possibility that we might have it in our lifetime.
		Wouldn't that be cool?
		Goodbye to paved roads.
		Goodbye.
		Now, there are certain things that you've got to consider.
		I mean, if everybody was flying around in the sky, it could be chaos.
		And so we'll talk about all of that.
		But, boy, give me a skycar any day of the week.
		So that's what we're going to talk about in the next hour.
		We'll have partial open lines this hour.
		Our president asked Congress today for authority to, quote, use all means, end quote, including military force, if necessary to disarm and overthrow Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein if he does not quickly meet U.N. demands that he abandon all weapons of mass destruction.
		At the UN-Iraqi President Saddam Hussein delivered a defiant written message taunting the U.S., bad idea, while claiming that Iraq has no chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons, saying that he welcomes inspections to prove it.
		So, I wonder if we're going to have a war.
		A Palestinian suicide bomber blew himself up on a crowded Tel Aviv bus, killed five people, and Israeli tanks went right on back to Yasser Arafat's West Bank compound, and no doubt he at this hour is looking down the barrel of an Israeli tank gone.
		They're real big.
		They're big, you know.
		If you ever got hit with one of those, it would just knock you in half or blow your head off or whatever.
		And so it's got to be a little intimidating to look out the window and see one of those Israeli, or several of those Israeli tanks, with that big holes staring you right in the face.
		That's what he's got at this hour.
		Now, in Cuba, look out, Cuba.
		There's a big hurricane named Isidore gathering strength, and it's headed right toward Cuba's western tip and the small, what's called the Isle of Youth.
		Now, they're boarding up everything there.
		Check this out.
		When it hits shortly, Isidore should dump perhaps over or up to over two feet of rain, up to 30 inches of rain on Cuba.
		That's one hell of a lot of rain and trouble headed for Cuba.
		And then where she goes from there, only the National Weather Service knows.
		Maybe.
		Maybe.
		Do you think we have the power to direct hurricanes?
		Been wondering about that for some time.
		Do we have the power to direct major weather systems to divert hurricanes?
		There's some not very good evidence that that may have been done.
		That there already may have been hurricanes diverted from the east coast of the U.S. Some of the tracks are interesting, speculatively interesting.
		Would we divert one from smacking Cuba?
		Oh, probably not.
unidentified		What do you think?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coming from MSNBC, Area 51, Truth Seekers, 0.
		Area 51, Truth Seekers, 0.
		For more than four decades now, an unusual alliance of mainstream lawyers, conspiracy theorists, and UFO enthusiasts have tried to find out just what the hell's going on out at Groom Lake, Nevada.
		They didn't say, hell, I did the top security Air Force facility, better known to fans of the X-Files, as Area 51.
		Now they're going to have to wait at least another year since our president, President George Bush, reissued an executive order Wednesday which bars the disclosure of any information to anybody for any reason about that site.
		Where some say, well, nothing's going on anymore.
		But even lawyers who are trying to sue on behalf of workers claiming they've been harmed in some way from having worked at the non-existent place, they can't get any info.
		Because the President on September 16th, 18th rather, pardon me, and as it has been every year since 1995, signed the order to make sure that nobody finds out anything about Area 51 that doesn't exist.
unidentified		Now, Yunka Mountain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is a very interesting article in UFO magazine.
		I thought it was extremely interesting.
		You know, this nuclear waste that we have is going to have to be maintained for, you know, like maybe 100,000 years or something like that.
		And so, you know, 100,000 years, I mean, we, 100,000 years, I mean, it's going to be at toxic, dangerous, horrible levels for 100,000 years.
		Now, how much time in the human race can we account for right now?
unidentified		Huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With record keeping and all that.
		Since Christ?
		Before that even?
		10,000 years?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not really.
		We can't really account for much over when Christ walked.
		I mean, in some ways, but they're pretty sketchy, aren't they?
		So the human race doesn't have experience yet with 10,000 years, much less with 100,000 years.
		Now, that thought in mind, there have been recommendations made about what should be done with regard to leaving messages for the future human race in every conceivable language, every conceivable way to communicate, that this is a bad area, that you should not go there.
		They'll have messages on the walls, near the nuclear material itself, and in chambers before you get to the nuclear material impact.
		Some of the recommendations include things like creation of an atomic priesthood.
		It would be a self-perpetuating cast of scientists who would be entrusted with keeping knowledge of the site alive no matter what happens to humanity.
		An atomic priesthood.
		Something that would have to be passed down to all generations of whatever mutants come along on our planet.
		For all we know, humans as we know them now in 100,000 years might be just little balls of light flitting around.
		Energy.
		Nothing more.
		Even so, the warnings will have to be there and they will have to be maintained.
		They will have to be carried forth generation after generation after generation for 100,000 years.
		So we're going to have to create myths.
		We're going to have to create religions around this.
		So it will be a verboden area.
		It will be thought of as evil.
		It will be thought of as Pandora's boss.
		And they're officially going to do this.
		So they'll be building myths around when they start beginning to bury this stuff in about 10 years.
		Now, I know that you know about this, or if you don't, you should.
		They report coming out very late, I think George had this on the other night, that the Chernobyl plant, we now find out, isn't this interesting, so many years later, had a UFO hovering over it for hours, hours and hours, before the explosion.
		Now, I'm told here that it could have been a lot worse.
		I mean, it really could have been a lot worse.
		In fact, it could have been so much worse that had it gone up another way, if that UFO hadn't been there, much of what you see on the map in Europe wouldn't be on the map in Europe at all.
		So bad as it was, and it was bad, nobody would ever question that, it could have been far worse had it not been for the appearance of, believe it or not, a UFO.
		And we find all this out 16 years later, and still in the UFO category, here's a very interesting case for you, and I'm just going to read it to you as is.
		It was called to my attention by Whitley Streeber.
		Very interesting story.
		On August 2nd, a witness saw a UFO above Montour Ridge in Northumberland, Pennsylvania.
		Now, it hovered above power lines, directed a beam of blue and white light to the ground.
		Next, he saw what appeared to be a man suspended in the light, being pulled up toward the UFO headfirst.
		The man was moving his arms slowly in the light, seemed to be pulled up into the bottom of the craft.
		A few minutes later, the UFO flew west rapidly, stopped again briefly, then flew straight up and out of sight.
		Two days later, check this out, the body of 39-year-old Todd Seas, that's S-E-E-S, was found nearby.
		Sees lived at the base of Montour Ridge and went up the mountain on his four-wheeler to look for deer.
		He told his wife he'd be home by noon.
		Left home at a little after 5 a.m.
		His wife began to get worried around noon.
		Search party organized at 2 p.m.
		Local state police, paramedics, 200 volunteers.
		In the evening of the second day, something white was spotted in a large brushy area 25 feet from the pond.
		Police and rescue workers spent 20 minutes cutting and hacking brush and small trees so they could reach what looked like a body.
		It turned out to be the white, emaciated body of Todd Seas.
		It wasn't bloated, so he appeared not to have drowned, nor had he been in the pond for any great length of time.
		His face had an expression of horror on it.
		He was wearing only underwear.
		Despite having been fully dressed when he left his house, the FBI arrived within 30 minutes, took charge of the whole case.
		Questioning area residents, three farmers said they saw a large, round, bright object hovering around the power lines at the time of that disappearance.
		It was silent and didn't move for about 10 to 15 minutes.
		Then it shot up and suddenly stopped again.
		A light shone down and something was pulled up into the light.
		It then shot up again, hesitated, and flew out of sight.
		One farmer said the UFO appeared out of nowhere and he could see flying sparks from the power line tower as it hovered overhead.
		The entire incident lasting about 10 minutes before the UFO got very bright and took off, flying low.
		His horses were very upset and nervous for about 12 hours after the incident.
		So when the body was autopsied, no cause of death was found.
		Two rattlesnakes were spotted in the area, but toxicology tests ruled any of that out, as well as drugs or any other toxins.
		There were no signs of foul play.
		There were no visible cuts or bruises on the body except from the brush.
		One of his boots was discovered in the top of a tree one mile from where the four-wheeler was found.
		Now, this is a pretty wild story, and it's really what you would have to call a possible murder by a UFO.
	A possible murder by a UFO.
	Now, this story is on Whitley Streeber's Unknown Country website.
	And if you want to go and find it, you go to unknowncountry.com and then put in the search engine C's S-E-E-S.
	That's the man's name, allegedly, C's S-E-E-S.
	And the story will come right up, and you can read it for yourself.
	But it does look like, if all this is real, that it's the first pretty well-documented alleged murder by a UFO.
	Once again, ladies and gentlemen, tonight's ICBM launch from Vandenberg Air Force Base is documented in photography from all of you on my website right now, artbell.com under what's new.
	We've got a collage of pictures, so anybody anywhere in the world can take a look, go to my website, you will see what we saw out here in the West.
	Pretty cool stuff.
	Very cool stuff, actually.
	Now, if you ever see a lot of those at once, hundreds of those at once, then you might start thinking about war.
	That's what it might be.
	I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 19, 2002.
		Coast to Coast AM from September 19, 2002.
		With a little girl in a Hollywood bungalow.
		Are you a lucky little lady in the city of Light?
		Or did you know the Long Yo?
		City of Night, City of Night.
		It ain't a night.
		It ain't a night.
		Woo!
		Boom!
		September change, growing old.
		White button butterfly, she will stop Waiting for the butterfly, she will starve.
		The sunsets come, the sunsets go And the clouds will climb And the earth will fall Till the young bird dies You always know And she must fly She must fly She must fly She
		must fly The
		End You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 19, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, everybody, and those are the numbers.
		If you want to get on the air, we're going to do about 30 minutes of open lives just ahead of Paul Moeller telling us what's new with the Sky Car.
		This is my dream machine, the Sky Car.
		We'll get into all of that here shortly.
		Strange things occurring in the studio.
unidentified		Ah well.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of September 19, 2002 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, as I said, open lines now.
		Directly head, anything you want to talk about is absolutely fair game.
		And let us begin with wildcard line.
		You are on the air.
		Hi there.
unidentified		Hi, Ark.
		This is Jim from Commerce, Michigan.
		I listened to you on CKLW out of Windsor, Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How you doing, Jim?
unidentified		Pretty good tonight.
unidentified		I was very interested in your program last night with a guest you had talking about the marijuana issue out there, your ballot initiative.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, here in Nevada, yes.
unidentified		Yeah, we had a similar issue that we've been trying to get on the ballot for several last, I think, three years here in Michigan.
unidentified		We call it the PRA, the Personal Responsibility Act.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		So it's quite, you know, it's a very similar thing.
unidentified		Just about all the police officers we get that we ever meet, they all signed a petition.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		They're all sick and tired of this ballony that's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
unidentified		And, you know, we kind of got into some of the history about how this thing, this law was passed in 1937, some of the shenanigans that went on in Congress, how the head of the American Medical Association pleaded with Congress not to do this, and you can get this out of the congressional.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, but you know the funny thing, sir?
		All of that happened then.
		That was then.
		This is now.
		I think we're enlightened since those days.
		But the action of our government since those days has not become enlightened.
		Only the people.
unidentified		Absolutely.
unidentified		Well, it's amazing how enlightened the government became just a couple of years after they passed this law in 1937 because it went from having no law whatsoever against it to being a Class A narcotic that doctors couldn't even prescribe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		I know, I know.
		What I'm trying to say, sir, is that none of that has changed.
		It's still, I mean, we've got the drugs are in billions of dollars fighting this insane battle, this utterly insane battle that's putting people in jail, getting people arrested, giving people records, all for something that is not even as dangerous in any documentable way as the legal drug we have now, alcohol.
		It's insanity to be wasting all this money on it and to be misleading our poor children who then will go to other drugs.
		I hate the whole damn thing.
unidentified		Are you aware of what's happened in England in the last few months?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No why.
unidentified		They have practically, well they have, they have decriminalized it.
		They're not even looking for people who smuggled in the country anymore.
		They have, I understand several other countries in Western Europe are looking at doing the same thing.
		You know, at one time in this country, back when the West was being settled, every wagon that went west from St. Joe, Missouri and St. Louis, Missouri had canvas on it from cannabis.
		They all had rope made from hemps, and the oil in the axles were made from hemp seed oil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't need to convince me.
		The Wall Street Journal a number of years ago did an article on the legalization of hemp, not just cannabis to smoke, but hemp in general.
		And at that time, it said the economy would realize about a half trillion dollars, one half, $500 billion from the legalization of hemp.
		And of course, during the war, we had hemp for war.
		I mean, you know, we had to have hemp.
		So this whole insane war has really, it's time for it to come to an end.
		It's time for the madness to end.
		That's what I think the slogan ought to be.
		That's what I keep pushing.
		You used to call it a reefer madness, right?
		Well, now it's time for the madness to end.
		And the madness is coming from Washington.
		It's coming from our drug czar, from our administration.
		And it's just a pile of steaming do.
unidentified		Pooh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so it's time we changed all this and began to get realistic and stop lying to our children and stop making it easier for them to go on to other drugs, which are damn well dangerous and addictive.
		No drugs should be touted as a good thing, not alcohol, not smoking, not marijuana.
		No drugs should be encouraged, period.
		However, in the real world, people use them.
		People go to cocktail parties.
		People have a drink.
		Some people prefer a little wine, and some people prefer a little marijuana.
		And all things told, marijuana is less harmful to society and to individuals in general than alcohol.
		So really, it's time to end the madness.
		And I hope my state is the first one to take the step.
		I'd be very proud if that were so.
		I urge people to think about it.
		Nevada has always been a forward-looking, forward-doing state that does things that other states won't do.
		And I have this funny feeling that this time we're going to do it again.
		East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, Ert.
		This is Jeff in Indiana.
		I'm listening to you on XM Satellite Radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, yes, sir.
unidentified		And I want to pass on greetings and salutations from one of your many, many chat rooms.
		It's Delnet, and it's the Real Art Bell chat room.
		We all just wanted to say hi to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you.
unidentified		And I wanted to comment on this picture on your website that you have the three pilots holding the guns, and it says, welcome to the flight deck, Mohammed.
		That just cracked me up.
		I just like that so much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In that case, sir, you should like this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen carefully.
unidentified		Good afternoon.
		This is your captain speaking with just a little flight information.
		Coming up on the left, we're going to be catching a glimpse of the Grand Canyon.
		On the right, you can be able to see the Hooper Dam in just a few minutes.
		We're flying at an altitude of 37,000 feet, and our airspeed is 400 miles an hour.
		A couple little facts here.
		unpacking a Colt King Cobra, that's a.357 caliber firearm with a black rubber grip and a 6-inch barrel.
		And our chief flight attendant Roger has a Ruger Barricada 22 with a hand-fluted cylinder.
		All three are capable of piercing body armor at a distance of up to 27 feet.
		And I can put a hole in human bone and flesh the size of the Grand Canyon, which, by the way, is coming up on the left-hand side of the plane.
		So just sit back and relax and enjoy the rest of the flight.
		That's crazy.
		That is so great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, it conveys the vocal message that cartoon does otherwise.
unidentified		Okay, Eric, thanks for taking my call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very welcome.
		Take care.
		I have thought, you know, since the beginning, that in conjunction with fortifying the doors so they can't be just kicked in, you know, to the cockpit, I think that's underway right now.
		I hope it is.
		That the pilots ought to be able to protect themselves.
		And, you know, people argue, I know I get all these emails, oh my God, don't you realize that a bullet would go through the skin of the aircraft?
		Yes, and there could be even explosive decompression as a result.
		However, I argue now, as I argued and have argued since day one, that while that's bad, it's not hardly as bad as hitting the ground at 525 miles an hour.
		I mean, there's definite consequences to hitting the ground at 525 miles an hour or a building or anything else or a mountain, side of a mountain, sir.
		They're a real bet.
		So having our pilots and co-pilots and flight crew being able to carry guns to protect themselves and the passengers has always seemed to me to be a pretty good idea.
		West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, good evening, Art.
unidentified		Richard here from Over the Hill in Las Vegas, KDWN.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I loved listening to that.
unidentified		I could just picture the steward as showing rubber mock-ups of the gun, of each gun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Just like they demonstrate the flotation devices and point out where the doors are, they hold up a big rubber gun, as the pilot described it.
		That's very good, sir.
unidentified		Exactly.
		I have a couple questions from last night.
		my trusty VersaCorder was not on, and while Bonnie was on, Let's be careful here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Versicorder is trustworthy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Its operator, however, probably forgot to set something on the trusty Versicorder.
unidentified		you're right.
		I wasn't on.
		It is my fault entirely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cockpit error.
unidentified		Exactly.
		My question is, I have two questions.
		Perhaps you could answer.
		I don't know if she went over this or not.
		What was the deepest man-made hole she may have found?
		And did she retrieve any artifacts from any of the holes that she'd been in?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, with regard to the deepest she found, that would have been in Peru.
		Now, she did mention artifacts.
		She didn't get specific about what artifacts she had found.
		She said they leave them intact where they are.
		With regard to the deepest hole, she said it, in fact, the Russians are the ones who have drilled the deepest hole.
		And there's one hell of a story that goes with it.
		Now, the Russians drilled a hole so deep, this was a remember now.
		We've got the story somewhere, and every time I do this, I bring the story back.
		It was a Reuters story, that's what it was, Reuters, about these Russians who drilled the deepest hole in the world.
		Now, Reuters went on to say that after they got down, God knows how far, they lowered microphones.
		This was all allegedly in Siberia.
		They lowered microphones into this hole.
		And the scientists did some recording.
		And as the story goes, after they heard this recording, they stopped drilling the hole.
		The scientists split.
		The whole project ended.
		Now, some years ago, I was sent what purports to be what was recorded in that hole.
		And now maybe when you hear it here, you're going to perhaps understand why those scientists split and why the project ended.
		Anyway, all of that happened.
		Now, if this is indeed the legit audio from that, I think you'll understand why they freaked out.
unidentified		Here's what they heard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That, ladies and gentlemen, is what we affectionately call the voices from hell.
		Now, I know it seems ludicrous, but again, Reuters reported the details.
		This audio followed to me a few years ago, and I hold this pretty close to the vest.
		This was a really deep hole.
		And after hearing that, everybody took off.
		And whatever else you think, if you heard that recording and you were a scientist and you had been part of the drilling team, what would you do?
		Would you stick around?
		Would you go over and put your ear to the hole to see if you could personally hear it?
unidentified		Huh?
unidentified		Probably not, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, yeah, I was calling.
		My name is Josh.
		I'm calling from Las Vanis, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Josh.
unidentified		And about 7.15 to 7.25 this evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was actually 7.36, my friend.
unidentified		7.36, yeah.
unidentified		We were wondering what that was that we've seen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think you saw?
unidentified		Well, we were thinking it was something launched from Vandenberg.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're exactly right.
		It was at 7.36, actually, Josh.
		And it was a Minuteman 3 intercontinental ballistic missile delivering, we hope, accurately, to the Marshall Islands, its payload.
		That was an ICBM you saw.
unidentified		Because we've seen it burst into two.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was the second stage you saw going.
		And if you want to see really good pictures of it, Josh, you go to my website, artbelt.com, under What's New, first item.
		We've got a whole collage of pictures of people who saw it all over the southwest, and they went and got their cameras.
		So compare that to what you saw.
unidentified		All right, I appreciate that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Take care, Josh.
		You bet.
		Wildcard Line, you are on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, this is Dr. Daniel in Omaha, Nebraska, speaking of the Air Force.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Stratcom and Future Space Command.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I wanted to ask you a question.
unidentified		They were talking about a UFO over Chernobyl.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And with a beam and so on.
unidentified		Did you know that the Air Force has an airborne laser system?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was vaguely aware of such a thing, yes.
unidentified		Now, they had a lot of 747s sitting around, and they decided to outfit them so that they could take on the terrorists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
		Yeah, I don't doubt for one second that we've got all kinds of things ready.
		Now, if war breaks out, I expect that really good observers are going to see all kinds of things happen that people have never seen happen before, and we're going to bring out all the newest stuff.
unidentified		Yeah, I figure we'll be experimenting again.
		Yeah.
		You have a good evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
		You too.
		Take care.
		East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Was it Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please turn your radio off if it's on and proceed.
unidentified		What's up, Art?
unidentified		This is Jeff from Sumter, South Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		I listened to you on WDXY 1040.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Sumter?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Okay.
		Good.
		And I've got two things.
		You know, you're talking about the flying car and all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		That put on my mind, you know, my favorite movie, Back Future 2.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And also, you remind me of Dan Aykroyd whenever he laughs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		When he's doing Tom Snyder.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Well, you have a good night too, sir, and thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Reminds him of Dan Aykroyd when I laughed.
		Was it to the Rockies?
		You're on the air?
		Hello.
unidentified		Oh, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off.
unidentified		Wow, yeah, I turned it off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, here you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		This is Kevin in Tempe, Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Kevin.
unidentified		You know, I was curious, Art, what year did that Siberian experiment supposedly take place?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, that was in the Reuters story, and I'm really sorry, buddy, unless we dredge it up, and of course, I can do that.
		Keith, I'm sure, has it socked away.
		We've brought it back numerous times, and we can see it.
unidentified		Oh, maybe he's just ballparking it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think it was a long time ago.
		It seems like it was a long time ago, fairly long ago, anyway.
		Maybe the 80s comes to mind.
unidentified		Yeah, because I had heard about it prior to your show, which...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was news.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It made news everywhere.
unidentified		Yeah.
		That's interesting.
		What do you think?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, no, wait, before you go.
		what do you think about what you heard now if you were part of the drilling team And you asked that.
		Yeah, well, and if you were part of the team when they played it, you know, in the room with a bunch of scientists huddled around, you were one of those guys.
		What would you have done?
unidentified		Well, I'll tell you what.
		The first time I heard it, I was totally spooked out.
		But as I listened to it recently, it's sounding more and more like Grand Central Station.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could be.
		Yeah, it does, except for the screens.
		Now, I don't know about those.
unidentified		There's almost a couple of discernible words in there.
		I suppose if you sent that to...
		I'd be looking for my next project.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, thank you.
		See, that's no small matter because in Russia, it's very hard to get and keep jobs.
		And even some of the best scientists are not employed, you know.
		Wildcard line, you are on the air.
		Good evening.
		Without a whole lot of time, you're till the top of the hour.
unidentified		Yeah, I just wanted to tell you about a UFO sighting my daughter had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That your daughter had?
unidentified		Yeah, she's a 10-year-old.
unidentified		She showed it to me, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She went, she's 10 years old?
unidentified		Yeah.
		It was about 7.30 in the evening, about two weeks ago.
		And it was a large rectangular object flying about jet altitude, maybe a little bit higher.
		And I was just wondering if maybe anyone else had ever had seen it.
		It was down in Tenth Street.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sir.
		Listen, my own sighting that I had with my wife was of a triangular object not as far away.
		So, you know, there's no question about it.
		These triangles, whatever in the hell they are, they're flying in our skies.
		They might be our triangles or they might be somebody else's triangles, but triangles they are, make no mistake about it.
		And they are flying in our skies and flying in the skies of Europe, Scandinavia, all over the world.
		These triangles have been reported hundreds, no, make that thousands of times.
		These flying triangles, they make no noise.
		They don't fly, as in aerodynamic flight.
		They float, as in defying gravity or defying air.
		You know, people said, well, they're balloons of some kind.
		I don't think so.
		I had one go right over my head.
		There was nothing balloon-like about it at all.
		It actually looked rather metallic and real heavy and not real likely to float at about 30 miles an hour.
		Float is an understatement.
		What that thing did was defy gravity, and they're really out there.
		I'm Art Bell from the High Desert.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 19, 2002.
		I remember you smiling, reflected in your eyes.
		I wonder where you are.
		I won't be with you, think about me Once upon a time, in your wildest Music Sweet dudes are made of aliens who have minds to disagree.
		I travel the world and every sea.
		Everybody is looking for something.
		Some of them want to use you.
		Some of them want to get used by you.
		Some of them want to abuse you.
		Some of them want to be a big one.
		Sweet teams are made of these.
		Whoever might do the tree.
		Travel the world and they'll never see everybody that is looking for something.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired September 19th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Close your eyes and try and imagine going out to your driveway.
		Actually, you wouldn't even need a driveway.
		You could have a pad, right?
		Going out to whatever you've got outside your house, opening the door, hopping into your sky car, and then going shopping, setting it for the following coordinates, GPS probably or whatever, and then just pushing a button and away you go in the air, like Superman.
		The reality is coming up on the program now.
		Dr. Paul S. Mueller is my guest, and it's been, oh, a year and a half, two years, I don't know, a long time since we had Dr. Mueller on because he wanted to bring you new information about his sky car.
		Tonight you're going to get it.
		Dr. Mueller grew up on a rural chicken ranch, chicken ranch in southeastern B.C., British Columbia, Canada.
		Now we have a chicken ranch here, too.
		Oh, those legs.
		At a very early age, it became apparent that Paul had a natural ability and desire to engineer and construct things.
		By the age of 11, the dream of flight had already taken him far along the path that he'd followed throughout his whole life.
		So he built, I guess, a Ferris wheel, which would enable him to simulate flight.
		What else about that?
		By the time Paul turned 15, he had built a dozen sports cars to get him from place to place.
		Though already successful, his dream was still unrealized.
		So undaunted, he designed his first helicopter and began its construction that same year.
		The helicopter, clearly not an exactly ideal flying machine for the general public, provided reason enough to continue along his chosen path toward what is now Skycar.
		Paul Mueller received a Master of Engineering from McGill University in 1961, Ph.D. in aerodynamics from McGill in 1963.
		He knows what he's talking about.
		Dr. Mueller was a professor of mechanical and aeronautical engineering at the University of California Davis 63 to 75, where he developed the Aeronautical Engineering Program.
		In 72, he founded SuperTrap Industries and was also chief executive officer of that subsidiary until it was sold in 88.
		He also organized and lead the group, which developed ultimately the Davis Research Park Complex between 75 and 83.
		He founded Mahler International and has served as the company's president, CEO, and chairman of the board since its formation in 1983 as a spin-off of Mahler Corporation to continue to design, develop, manufacture, and market personal, vertical, takeoff, and landing aircraft.
		The company has developed and integrated the disparate technologies required for small powered lift VTOL aircraft.
		Skycars, folks.
		These include electronic stabilization and control systems, efficient ducted fan designs, thrust vectoring mechanisms, and aerodynamically stable composite airframe structures.
		The single most significant spin-off technology is the Roto-Power Engine, the Wonkel rotary engine.
		I had a car with the Wonkel engine.
unidentified		It's cool.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In 1999, Mahler International completed the development, test, and production of the rotary power engine required in the Skycar.
		Subsequently, the engine was licensed to Freedom Motors, a spin-off of Mahler International, for all applications except aircraft and ducted fans.
		After over 30 years, Dr. Mueller's dream to create a versatile, low-maintenance, easy-to-operate, fast, and economically viable, safe, environmentally responsible VTOL transportation solution is now at hand.
		The M400 Skycar is a transportation solution.
		The M400 Skycar incorporates the flexibility of taking off and landing from nearby any location with safety and ease of operation by the general public.
unidentified		So he's talking about all of us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In a moment.
unidentified		The End Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast2Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider.
		You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price, just 15 cents a day when you sign up for one year.
		The package includes podcasting, which offers the convenience of having shows downloaded automatically to your computer or MP3Player, and the iPhone app with live and on-demand programs.
		You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows.
		Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure.
		Plus, you'll get streamed and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bell, Summer In Time Shows, and two weekly classics.
		And as a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Norrie and special guests.
		If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
		Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up today.
		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
		When you look at what's going on around this planet, it's almost as if someone has got a playbook to try to control all these countries all of a sudden.
		I've always said that not everything is a conspiracy, but a lot of it is.
		You know, when you start looking into things, there's only certain set of conclusions you can reach.
		And unfortunately, this is one of them.
		You know, it's very, very hard not to see things like that when you start looking at things in a larger picture.
		And now we take you back to the night of September 19th, 2002, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are certain things in life that become passions, they become compulsions, and flight is one of those things, isn't it, Doctor?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I guess it certainly has been for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Becomes a compulsion isn't an unfair word, is it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The whole concept and the feeling of wanting to fly is like a compulsion, huh?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I guess it varies a little bit between one type of flying and another.
		I was never desirous of flying in a conventional airplane.
		I always wanted to imitate the hummingbird.
		That special ability they had to take off vertically, fly backwards and forwards and accelerate like Ferrari Tusterosa.
amazing kreskin ▲ ● ▼		And hover.
amazing kreskin ▲ ● ▼		And hover, which is the most critical part.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was in San Francisco at the International Airport, and a hummingbird came up and hovered in front of my wife's mouth, and actually came forward very gently while it was hovering and touched her lip and then backed away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've never seen anything like it in my life, but the hovering like that, huh?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's amazing.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I haven't seen anything like that either, but that was amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long have you been dreaming, Doctor, really, of the sky car?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean of the concept since early on?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I think I wanted to.
		I think when I started designing the helicopter when I was about 15, I had really clearly identified something I wanted to do.
		In the wintertime, you had to walk through the snow through a couple of miles to get to school.
		So the idea of that kind of mobility where you could go where you want, when you want, like Hommingbird was very exciting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you do with your helicopter?
		I mean, not everybody builds a helicopter.
		That's a pretty big story all by itself.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, I didn't really complete it.
		I mean, I was much more optimistic, and I guess that's characteristic of people who end up doing or trying to do what I'd been trying to do, where you underestimate how complicated it is and how long it might take.
		I'm certainly a champion at that.
		But I did build part of the helicopter.
		In fact, interesting enough, the one part that was used by my father was the tail system when our hatchery, the power shut down on our hatchery on the farm, and the heat rises in that situation, and it kills the baby chicks before they're hatched, of course.
		And so he hooked up my tail rotor from my helicopter to an electric motor powered by, of course, a battery, and managed to keep the air circulating enough that he kept 25,000 chicks alive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's got some use.
		It got some good use.
		So then the Skycar, you know, I mean, we've got pictures of the Model 400, the new M400 design on the website tonight.
		A million people are going to go look at it because it is in blinking credible, folks.
		When you see it, wait till they see it.
		This is a personal flying vehicle designed to be used by the general public, isn't it?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		That's the thing.
		It's really important.
		It's designed to be particularly safe and to be inexpensive in mass production so that, in theory, everybody can use it perhaps as an air taxi, as a rental vehicle, or as something one could own.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Imagine for me that everything goes well.
		You go into production.
		You begin to mass produce these at the level of Ford or Chrysler or something like that.
		If you were to imagine that, what do you imagine today's price would be when it rolled off the assembly line?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		We've done some actual fairly extensive analysis of that, and we're so much today the beneficiary of low-cost computer technology, software and hardware.
		And what we've really done in this vehicle is replace much of the typical mechanical hardware, which is of course the expensive part of any aircraft, with this electronic software, which is cheap.
		You're talking about a vehicle that could be in the price of a quality automobile, $50,000, perhaps even less.
		It gets difficult to estimate when you get that low, but it's in that region.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So like Mercedes or cheaper even, huh?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, actually, it's a mid-price Mercedes, I suppose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mid-price Mercedes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And for that money, you might get something that looks like the M400.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It would be we would obviously be building two passengers and six-passenger vehicles, which is pretty much the maximum you can build.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, but the one we're talking about here would be four-passenger lines.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's the common one.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That would be the one that would be the most commonly used, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you could safely carry four people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's kind of like, you know, a small sedan.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		How do you manage to lift the weight of four people and whatever they've brought along safely, vertically into the air, and then begin transporting them horizontally and then landing again?
		How do you, what has to happen to do that?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's a lot of weight.
		The first thing you have to do is become a mechanical hummingbird, which means you have to have a pretty high metabolism in the form of a lot of power.
		And that was the critical thing for us.
		That took us the last 10 years.
		People have often asked, you know, why weren't you flying this 410 years ago?
		And we actually had the airframe and the undercarriage and everything built, but we didn't have engines that were powerful enough to be able to lift it off and lift it off safely and be able to tolerate an engine failure, for example, or some other kind of failure that would allow you to continue to operate safely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so how did you get that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you finally get the breakthrough point where you had enough engine to build it?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, we developed this engine over many years.
		We've been in the engine business longer, actually, than I've really been in the aircraft construction business.
		We started that 40 years ago, and we've had a continuous engine development program.
		Since then, we've also acquired most of the rotary or Wankel engine technology that was ever developed in America, including the production equipment.
		So we've been fortunate enough to put ourselves in a position to produce these particular very small engines, not much bigger than something you can hold, certainly you can hold it with your two hands, 160 horsepower engine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then you're saying the Wankel engine was the answer?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		The Wankel engine was the answer.
		It's interesting.
		The Wankel engine really never found a home other than in some limited sports cars from Mazda, but I think it was always waiting for this kind of technology because there is no other engine that would be cost effective.
		You can put a turbine in, but it would be extremely expensive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I owned a Mazda Wankel engine car.
		I had one for years.
		You know what the really interesting thing was that I found out about it?
		I'm always one of those nuts who puts a compass right up front.
		You know, so I see which way I'm going because I hardly know.
		So I always put a compass on my cars, always.
		And I put a compass on that one, and I found out the Wonkel engine produces a magnetic field.
		And it would permanently freeze my compass toward the Wonkel engine over a period of time.
		It finally froze that thing toward the Wonkel engine.
		Have you ever noticed that about the Wonkle?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		No, I've never had that condition.
		We have, of course, any of the electronics we have in the vehicle are extremely heavily shielded because of the dangers of any kind of magnetic field, whether it's from the engine or stray electric fields.
		So we're very well protected and probably wouldn't pick up on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the Wonkel engine was such a wonderful engine, and as you point out, it was in the Mazda, and then it just went away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And my first question is, why?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was in a specialized vehicle that ended up being quite expensive over a period of time as it became more of a high-performance car and I think eventually it just didn't have a big enough market.
		It is coming back and it certainly is timely.
		It'll be back this fall or early spring with another extra 75 horsepower, beautiful new design.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh really?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Just at the right time for the world to believe again in the rotary engine and of course it's not bad for our project either to have that happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are the advantages of a rotary engine over the standard piston engine thing?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well the major advantage say if you're starting out with a new technology or a new engine is that it's extremely simple.
		In our aircraft there's only two moving parts whereas in a typical engine of the same capability, a piston four-stroke engine, you'd have about 46 moving parts.
		So there's a reliability issue.
		But the other things are that you get an awful lot of power in a very small package.
		The engine is extremely reliable for anybody who's really had a lot of experience with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So pound for pound, how much more horsepower does the Wonkle produce?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, we generate regularly two horsepower per pound.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Your automotive engine probably produces a half a horsepower per pound.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		So there's about a factor of four there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's big.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Between the two of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's big.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About 400% more.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Right, and it's true of the aircraft engines produced today.
		They produce about a half a horsepower per pound.
		Some of them a little bit more than that, but never one horsepower per pound, and we can operate at two.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the M400 design, God, this looks like a futuristic sports car.
		It looks like some Bruce Willis being.
		How many Wonkle engines are in there?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		We use eight small engines, as I said, not much bigger, something you could hold very easily in two hands.
		You could almost hold it in one hand.
		They're all integrated with a computer, so it's not like you're really dealing with eight engines.
		The beauty is that, of course, one engine can fail, and the vehicle will continue to operate.
		And we've had that recently when we were flying the 400.
		This is early on, of course.
		Things do go wrong, and we had an engine that did not operate, and we continue to fly the aircraft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Safely.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Safely, yes.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It's still in one piece.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you actually have proven that in flights?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we did it earlier, too, with the earlier two-passenger, what we called the M200.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		We lost an engine of that in flight at one point, and didn't actually discover that loss until the vehicle had actually landed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The M400 is beautiful.
		I mean, it's just flat, easy on the eye, I guess you'd put it that way.
		In other words, you go to my website, folks, artbell.com, go to program tonight's guest information, and there you'll see Dr. Paul Mueller's name.
		Now, the first thing you'll see is related info, new M400 design.
		Now, look at it, and when you look at it, Americans buy stuff cars because they're sold on the aesthetic beauty and performance of what they're buying.
		And in the M400, you'll have them.
		I mean, this thing is beautiful.
amazing kreskin ▲ ● ▼		You start drooling when you look at it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do, anyway.
		You've got to wipe off the drool.
		Oh, that is some machine.
		Who actually did the design that we're looking at here, Doctor?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it's a funny combination.
		You know, form tends to follow function in aerodynamics.
		If things work and fly smoothly through the air, they typically look pretty good.
		But my major in high school, let's say the course I did the best in, is art.
		So I suppose in a funny kind of way, artist is something that I've always been very involved in and very interested in.
		I come from a family where my sisters are outstanding artists.
		So I got a little help there along the line from heredity, I suppose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, not to mention your Ph.D. in aerodynamics.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the technical part.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		But the aesthetic part, I tried to encompass as much as I could without getting beyond what clearly is needed to be a very successful vehicle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are some exceptions to aerodynamic and beautiful.
		I mean, there are some ugly things that fly.
		And this happens to be Well, it certainly has sports car capabilities, and you're right, it does look very sporty.
		Oh, it's got sports car written all over it.
		And it's also got, when you look at it, it's got fast written all over it.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It's fast.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It's very fast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it?
unidentified		Now, how fast is it?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, top speed is 380.
		And at 25,000 feet, it's capable of cruising well over 300 miles an hour and do quite well.
		I mean, it's a high-performance.
		It's not a jet plane, of course, but it has a lot of the characteristics of a jet plane, small wings, which means it doesn't get upset by the environment.
		It can be windy or gusty, and the vehicle can fly through that kind of condition.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's because of small wings?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Small wings, right.
		You see, you normally have large wings because you have to take off from a runway.
		You really don't want large wings, but that's the only way you can fly at low speed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you an interesting big wing story when we get back.
		We're at the bottom of the hour, Dr. Mueller.
		Stay right there.
		You have big wings and turbulence.
		I've got a couple stories about that.
		He's right about that.
		Big wings.
		Look at it.
		It's got a small wing.
		You're going to want to see this.
		So go to my website and take a look.
		You can see a new M400 design, the skycar that Dr. Mahler is building for you or to meet.
unidentified		You'll receive Artfell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 19, 2002.
		We're too hot to sleep.
		We had to get out before you got away.
		We could go with the night.
		Rain in the shadow I'll fuck you at night Till the morning light Yeah, love's all on the moon Fire me in my head Grab the blue lines and talk to me today Can I be cold?
		My whole life spins into a brand new bed How my happiness is my life's gone Place in my house Me and my feet gone My feet are moving through the moon and star Where am I going now that I'm gone so far?
		You're gone and gone From the bullet hits the bone You're gone and gone From the bullet hits the bone I'm falling down down the spiral, that's the vision alone.
		Double cloud messenger, all alone.
		Can't get no connection, can't get through.
		Where are you?
		Well, the night with heaven on the empty mind head far from the borderland.
		He knows damn well he has been cheated How you live?
		And I'm turning to the twilight zone Lately to the house with my feet long My feet come in blue like the moon and star Where am I going?
		I'll never go on too far You will come and go And I'm falling at the moment You are young and old You're listening to Archbelt somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 19, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Dr. Paul Mahler, and he's the inventor, manufacturer of the Skycar.
		You can see the M400 design on my website right now.
		Suggest you do that under tonight's guest info.
		M400, it is a real drool machine.
unidentified		I mean, you've got to have one, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the kind of deal it is.
		Now, we're talking about big wings.
		I'll tell you a story about big wings in a moment.
unidentified		Big wings in a moment.
		You're listening to Arc Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 19, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A few years ago, Ramona and me were on the way, we left Narita Airport in Tokyo, and we were on our way back to the States.
		You know, we're going to land in San Francisco, I think, or somewhere another.
		Anyway, we got over the, we're in a 747.
		They have real big wings.
		And we got over the Alaskan area because, of course, you're doing the Northwest Passage.
		And we hit turbulence.
		Now, this wasn't just any turbulence.
		This was rip the wings off kind of turbulence.
		I mean, your head would hit the ceiling if you weren't to have the seatbelt on.
		Things were flying around the cabin.
		The poor little stewardesses, the JAL stewardesses, the cute little JAL stewardesses, they were all turning totally white and other shades.
		And when you look over at the stewardess and she's sitting and buckled in and turning colors, then you know you're in turbulence.
		That was serious turbulence.
		So like big wings, big turbulence.
		But this sky car could perhaps not run into that level of turbulence, but some fairly serious turbulence without suddenly going down like a rock.
		And why is that?
		Why can it...
		In other words, you wonder as this vehicle lifts and as this vehicle moves forward how it achieves its stable flight.
		And to be given to the general public, of course, it'd have to be very stable and relatively safe.
		So how does it achieve that?
		Especially with small wings.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, as I said earlier, you have big wings normally, or larger wings than you would like to have simply because you have to take off from the ground.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		So you don't want to have to take off at 150 miles an hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You need lift.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		You need lift.
		But if you've got a vertical takeoff aircraft, of course, you generate a lot of lift by direct thrust.
		And so you can accelerate to 100 miles an hour before the wings really become necessary to lift you.
		And so this kind of vehicle that we have would not be able to land at an airfield at under 100 miles an hour because it wouldn't have big enough wings to support it.
		So that gives you that ability to make the wings a lot smaller and really size them for high speed.
		And, of course, that's why we can go fast and also why we have low drag, so we get good fuel economy while we're going fast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there's an interesting point.
		The stabilization then, obviously, as you vertically take off is one very serious thing to try to achieve.
		And then stabilization as you slowly increase speed to the point where your wings are meaningful in aerodynamic flight, how do you stay stable?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, that, again, is conventional aerodynamics.
		We have the wings distributed so the vehicle is what's called inherently stable aerodynamically.
		It's a flying aircraft at that point.
		And, you know, we have wings distributed, and we, of course, have our own wind tunnel, which we've tested many thousands of hours of flight test to make sure that, at least at this level that we're operating with right now, that it appears stable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the engine thrust has to be a gigantic part of that stability for the initial flight and, of course, the landing as well, right?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		It's really important.
		And the computers, of course, control the power in such a way that the vehicle is kept stable up until you're flying aerodynamically.
		Once you're flying aerodynamically, you're just like a conventional airplane.
unidentified		Sure.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Four thrusters and you fly like an airplane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Almost more like a jet than an airplane, as you pointed out.
		This is configured more like a jet than a conventional aircraft, certainly.
		So now, you've got to have really good electronics.
		I mean, now obviously this can be held stable.
		I can understand how that could be done with computers.
		But if your computer failed, what then?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, what you make sure you have is a highly redundant system.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		As you may know, many of the fighter aircraft today are absolutely unstable, even in forward flight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		And they get away with that by having computers that keep them stable.
		But of course, they have great redundancy.
		They have four computers in such a way that one computer can fail, the other one will take over if that fails, the other one takes over.
		And they've been pretty successful.
		They've had actually very, very few failures due to computers because of that system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that's exactly what you would do with this aircraft, that you'd have that much redundancy?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Four computers.
		We call it quadwaffle redundancy.
		It's an essential part of the design.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then, would it be fair to ask you, what percentage of aircraft accidents, military aircraft accidents that do occur, are attributed to four computers failing?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		We have no record of that occurring.
		We went on to all the sources we knew about and could find no record of that having happened.
		That doesn't say it didn't happen because, of course, we don't have complete access to that.
		But we found that the dominant failure mode was an engine failure, and then there were many other elements that caused failure, structural failures, and other things.
		But we did not see any indication that computers played a role in any of these.
		Quadrupa redynas systems, computers have played a part in failures of aircraft in many ways, but not in this controlled area as we could determine it.
		We would have to make sure, of course, that that is the most critically safe part of the flight, because as you say, if that fails, everything fails.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, would there be, under the worst of all conditions, or if somebody wanted to, the ability for the average person to remove computer control and control flight themselves when in those critical modes?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		No, quite frankly, I think that this aircraft is, you know, in forward flight, if you're going fast, it wouldn't matter, but you could not land this vehicle without the computer.
		You could not operate it under any conditions without the computer.
		Things just happen too fast.
		And it's absolutely essential.
		I've had one of these aircraft being flown by a superb pilot who flew it for a small period of time without the computers, but ultimately he crashed it at least in the sense that he came back to Earth.
		He didn't damage anything, particularly because we weren't flying very far above the ground.
		But he was extraordinarily talented, much more than the average person would be, and perhaps even better than most pilots are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he really just barely sort of handled it.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Right, barely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the computers would be absolutely, totally essential.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you say that you've got them pretty fortified against electromagnetic radiation and that sort of thing.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Right, because of course we have been flying, for those who don't know the history of our company, we have been flying with computers in our aircraft for well over 10 years now.
		Actually, it's about close to 15 years now.
		And we've never had a computer failure while we've been in the air.
		We've had, as I said, an odd engine failure.
		And we've only, at the beginning, quite frankly, we only had one computer, so one failure was all we needed to be in trouble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of fuel would this use?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, it can use one of the unique features of the Wankel-type engine is they tend to be quite fuel-insensitive in the sense that it can use or burn many different types of fuel.
		Right now we're flying the SkyCar, the 400, with alcohol.
		We do that because it's a very safe fuel.
		In the case of a fire, as we know, we use alcohol in any average race cars because of safety.
		So we use alcohol, but we can run it on diesel or we can run it on gasoline.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in an emergency, you could pour a fifth of Jim Beam in?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		You could.
		Actually, you think that sounds like a joke, but actually it runs very well in a combination of alcohol and water.
		So 100-proof would be just about perfect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
		How interesting.
		So that makes, at today's prices, if alcohol is viable, then it makes the cost of fuel per mile or per tank, I guess, or whatever.
		How do you judge it, and what is it, roughly?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, the best you can do, and of course, the fast you go beyond a certain point, the less mileage you get.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		But the best condition being flying, the best combination of altitude and speed, which is, say, 25,000 feet flying about 250 miles an hour, we can get 28 miles to the gallon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		28 miles to the gallon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, most people are going to fly faster, and they're going to probably get more like 20, just like we drive down the freeways at 80 rather than 60.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What does a 747 get per mile or per whatever?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, we all rate that in terms of passenger miles per gallon, which is the common denominator.
		And we actually are a little bit better than the best of the flight vehicles today, quite a bit better than the 747.
		But that's in passenger miles per gallon.
		Of course, they carry enormous amount of passengers.
		They're very efficient in fuel.
		We are better than almost any vehicle out there that flies, including even some of the home-built aircraft, which are quite efficient.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so that's fuel.
		If you were to get into your Skycar, let's take me.
		Okay, I'm in Front, Nevada, pretty rural community.
		Hell, I could land that thing in a lot I have next door, right in the middle of my antenna that I just put up.
		And going to Las Vegas, which is a typical trip for me, 65 miles, and it's over a little mountain here, about 5,500 feet.
		And, of course, as a crow flies, and then as you have to drive, they're two very different things.
		If I could just hop over that mountain, man, I'd be in Las Vegas in just a few minutes.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		15 minutes, to be precise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		15, huh?
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		If you want to go maximum speed higher than that, but I'm giving you an efficient speed to operate at.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
		15 minutes.
		Well, Wow.
		So I would step into this craft.
		I'd sit down, and if I wanted to go from here to Las Vegas, what would I have to do?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, right now, because there isn't a guide, there isn't a real airway in the sky yet, there will be in the next very few years.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		You would pilot this to, there wouldn't be much skill involved in the piloting, but you'd still have to be a pilot in the sense you have to know what other people are doing, and you have to know what the rules of the air are so you don't get in trouble in navigation and that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, I'm trying to get you to imagine how it would be when it's fully commercialized.
		In other words, I'd step into the craft and I'd do what?
		What would I enter?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		If it's fully commercialized, and by that you mean there's an airway network in place?
unidentified		Oh, yeah, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		In that case, you would just get into there.
		You just code in a number in 265 for Las Vegas, push a button, and you can go to sleep.
		You can play the computer games.
		You can read whatever.
		You're going to be delivered.
		You're not going to be involved in the process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm going to be there in 15 minutes.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		And it's going to land itself.
		It's going to take off and it's going to land itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I notice you have windows.
		I'm looking at the front of the 400 right now, and you've got a nice window, just like you would have in a sports car, say.
		Is that a wraparound window?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It is for the moment, but when we pressurize, which we were doing, we will have to do for a higher altitude, we'll have to break that up into sections.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Right now it's one single piece, but you'll still have good visibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		okay let's say again i'm going to las vegas in this vehicle um...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		typically what altitude would i try to What altitude would I attain in a trip of that duration?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you'd just go 1,000 or 2 over the heights of the mountain, so you wouldn't be pressurized.
		There's no reason to climb up for such a short flight.
		It really makes sense to climb up to a higher altitude because you want to go faster and therefore get over a longer distance in a shorter time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so I'd be sort of skimming treetops over the mountain there for 1,000 feet.
		All right.
		That sounds like fun.
		Boy, that sounds like fun.
		And I'm sure this is all you've been dreaming about.
		Now, you mentioned higher flight to 25,000 feet.
		Now, obviously, at 12,000, 13,000 feet, whatever, you've got to begin to pressurize an aircraft or everybody faints.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you would do that?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, that's certainly part of the plan because you can fly over 100 miles an hour faster and get the same fuel economy when you're flying at 25,000 feet versus sea level.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		So you're obviously going to do that if you can do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I presume that you're saying it can be done.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, it is.
		The computer will drive you to the most, if what you want is maximum fuel economy would drive you to that.
		My guess is it's going to be something a bit faster than best fuel economy because you're on a sort of a railway track where everybody's going the same speed.
		And I'm presuming that people are going to want to go a bit faster than the most economic speed.
		But you're going to be controlled and be required to go on that particular highway at the speed that is designed into the system, which may be 300 miles an hour, it may be 250, depending on the altitude.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		If you imagine it as fully commercialized, do you also imagine present-day aviation, as we see it, continuing?
		In other words, large, I don't know, jet aircraft or whatever other propulsion system might come along, but you know, the 747s and the big heavies still flying on any given day.
		They're coming out of Las Vegas like so many ducks in a row and headed toward places like San Francisco that would take them directly in my flight path, in my little Mueller sky car.
		And so how do I go to sleep, safely assuming that I'm not going to connect with the 747 at 25,000 feet?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, you just have to be confident that the system itself is secure.
		In today's world, it's difficult to imagine because, quite frankly, it's pretty chaotic up there.
		People have to look around to see if other planes are coming in their direction and often in flight.
		But if it's really truly computerized, if we have real-time computer capabilities so we know where every single vehicle is at all times, which is certainly going to happen, and you can think about the security advantages of that.
		There won't be any September 11th times dates if you can know at all times where everybody is and why they're there and who they are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where would this be all controlled from?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, would it be a function of this Mueller 400 communicating with the ground and computers on the ground that would be telling it where to go and not to go and how to go?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
		It would be a major mass.
		They have some very sophisticated plans to be able to know at all times, not just by GPS, but also by geostationary satellites for local control that would allow very precise, and you're talking about in theory,
		in near airfields, control within centimeters, but outside of airfields or some distance away from the city, you would get down to a few feet of control and know where the person is and know who it is too, which is critical, I'm sure, from a security point of view to know who's up there, friend or foe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, we have traffic helicopters that regularly fly over Las Vegas, and they look down on this congested, insane mess in a place called the Spaghetti Bowl.
		I mean, every city has this, just about every big city.
		And they show people, you know, tapping their fingers, waiting in long lines of stalled cars.
		Now, if you close your eyes and imagine all of those cars down there suddenly up in the air instead of being down there, it's almost unimaginable.
		I mean, would things really run?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess what you have to consider is that when you're down on the ground, you're trying to get around in a, you could call it a two-dimensional world if you like, with a one-dimensional transportation system.
		That's doomed to failure.
		And all of a sudden, we give you a three-dimensional system which has multi-layers.
		It can travel on average, quite frankly, close to 10 times faster than a car because the cars today average about 30 miles, you know, on average, considering cities and everything else, about 30 miles an hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That may be optimistic in a lot of ways.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And so all of a sudden you've got the capability going 10 times faster.
		So in theory, you'd need one-tenth as many but independent of that if all the cars that are on the ground today were in the air at the same time they would still be miles apart except of course when you get near the city where they would it would have to be integrated again so we have that much airspace tremendous amount i mean it's just it's you know it did walk outside your house at any time and look up in the air unless you're near a city you you're not likely to even see an airplane that's fairly true we've got to sit there and wait for one one will inevitably come by i
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and that is a lot of empty airspace.
		You make a very good point.
		So even fully commercialized, all those cars down and around in the air, there'd be at least mile separation with a greater safety factor by far than we have on our highways now when we, what, kill 50,000 people a year?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're approaching that.
unidentified		Yeah.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if you're going, you think about the closing speed between two cars going, you know, 70 miles an hour under two-lane highway, you've got 140 miles an hour and they go by each other three feet apart.
		I mean, we live pretty dangerously.
		We do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And a lot of us die, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you think that were it all in the air, it would be actually that much safer.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, I always use the joke I say in the world that I envision.
		You know, even if a drunk gets on board this thing, the worst thing can happen.
		He can end up in the wrong city, but he's going to arrive safely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a good point.
		All right, Doctor, hold on.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		Be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 19, 2002.
		And I have met my destiny in quietest in the way.
		We're both on the floor.
		It's all we're feeling is there.
		We're both on the floor.
		I just woke up, you are awesome.
		When you find me, that love seems so high.
		When you got us still alone, you know that you were awesome.
		Then you got me, hold on, you are awesome.
		When you get me, hold on, you turn around.
		You might know when you're shot and down, you're coming down.
		You never had a thing to me, and it's gonna happen to you.
		I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't love just to be cool.
		Yeah, I'm right, I'm not a little girl.
		It had a time, suddenly it just had a time.
		I saw my dream, but I'm not, when I walked away from my heart.
		When you lose the perfect love, you need to die.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 19, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have got the incredible Dr. Paul Muller on the air tonight.
		He's designed an air car, a personal air car to be used by people like you.
		And the amount of interest in it is obvious.
		It looks like we have, well, we've really hurt his website.
unidentified		Sorry about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That tells you the level of interest, though, in something like this among the general public.
		I mean, his website's just creeping is definitely on its knees.
		You may not get on at all.
		And so if you don't get on tonight and you're trying to get on to his website, do it tomorrow.
		In the meantime, we can handle the bandwidth.
		And we've got at least a good photograph of the 400, the Model 400 up there.
		That you'll be able to see under tonight's program info, Dr. Muller's name.
		Just click on that.
		his website you're gonna have to be a very very patient person or even perhaps wait until tomorrow but it'll still be there for you tomorrow coast to coast a m is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
unidentified		Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
		And if you're a Coast Insider, you'll have our great subscriber features right on your phone, including the ability to listen to live programs and stream previous shows.
		No special app is necessary to enjoy our new mobile site.
		Simply visit CoastToCoastAM.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
		When you look at what's going on around this planet, it's almost as if someone has got a playbook to try to control all these countries all of a sudden.
		I've always said that not everything is a conspiracy, but a lot of it is.
		You know, when you start looking into things, there's only certain set of conclusions you can reach, and unfortunately, this is one of them.
		You know, it's very, very hard not to see things like that when you start looking at things in a larger picture.
		Now we take you back to the night of September 19, 2002, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, once again, here is Dr. Paul Mueller.
		Doctor, I'm going to take you all over the place in questions about this if I can a little bit.
		I've got all these questions by computer, and there are some pretty good ones.
		Link in Lakewood, Washington says, you know, what about just taking a country drive?
		What about pleasure flying?
		You know, with cars today, we don't only, even though it seems that way sometimes, use them to get back and forth to work in traffic jams.
		Sometimes we just go out and drive to have a hell of a good time, to get out and let your hair down a little bit and have fun and look at the scenery.
		Well, gee whiz, your vehicle, it seems to me, would offer that times 10 if it would allow for that sort of thing.
		In other words, just not utilitarian flight, but fun flight.
		And so the question is, would your vehicle allow for that?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, it would be a, you know, there would be a prescribed airway system that when you're on, you have to follow the exact rules clearly for the safety of everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		But there certainly would be, I wouldn't call them off-road recreational parks, but they're off-air, whatever, where you could certainly fly around under some prescribed conditions.
		But keeping in mind that this is a small vehicle and two of these vehicles going at 300 miles an hour in opposite directions is pretty risky.
		So you'd have to do it in a manner in which there was a lot of control just the same, whether it was precise in terms of being exactly the same speed as everybody else.
		Certainly you're going to have to have a lot of supervision, electronic supervision to make it safe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but I guess I'm asking if the electronic supervision would allow for that.
		For example, we have national parks all over the country, and a lot of them are really beautiful and wondrous to fly over.
		For example, the Grand Canyon and other areas that I could think about would be just wondrous to just for fun if it were allowed under such a system to fly over.
		I mean, national parks, why not have them visited by air as well as we now have it?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		That's quite possible since obviously the system is going to be better than it is today.
		And we do have aircraft flying around, light planes flying around right now that can go 300 miles an hour.
		So yes, this would be possible.
		And with the added security that we're going to provide, you're going to know if there's other people in your area.
		You're going to have onboard sensors that will tell you that there's somebody to your left or to your right in addition to a lot of input from a central control network.
		But yes, you'll have that degree of freedom outside of the controlled airway network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, that sounds great.
		Somebody from Hawaii, Gary in Hawaii, says, ask them how loud the craft will be.
		How loud is it now, and how loud do you imagine it to be if it were a production commercial version?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, right now it's very loud because the nature of where we've concentrated our technology is on powering it up and the stability system and other things.
		But we're working very hard on what's called mutual noise cancellation technology, and that's when you generate what's called an anti-noise.
		You generate the same frequencies and then you phase shift it.
		It sounds pretty technical, but really what you're doing is generating a noise in opposition to the existing noise and moving it out of phase so it cancels the present noise.
		That is really the future of this because there's nothing short of that that's going to allow you to land at your home or even in a city center.
		And that's the next area of major research activity.
		and of course you know now that we're now that we're a public company uh...
		we have you know everybody is ready to position to become part of our company something that has happened in the past and of course People can go to their broker and become part of our company.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now that's new.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It's very new.
		It's very new.
		It's very exciting because it gives everybody a chance to participate in this to a small degree.
		In the past, quite frankly, and I always resented this.
		The only people who could invest in us were very rich people who could afford to lose it.
		Now that we've got this public offering, people can come out here and put modest amounts of money into our company and become a participant in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's a big jump.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, when companies are very small, it's like you've got to be a millionaire to even be allowed to invest at that level because it's so risky.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's not necessarily always risky, but you know, the controlled people within the government have a very paternal view of these things.
		They're going to protect you at all costs.
		And sometimes some very exciting technologies never see the light of day because they never get the opportunity to raise the kind of capital they need.
		We were being fortunate over the years that we've had what we call angel investors, people who have quite a large amount of money, perhaps, but they believe in what we're doing.
		They're patient.
		They've stuck with us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These would be the same people that saved us recently from WorldCom, right?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		This is the kind of person who you really want on board because he doesn't come in like a greedy venture capitalist might.
		He certainly is not an institution which wouldn't invest in our kind of technology anyhow.
		They're people who have a futuristic view of what can happen and they're willing to support him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, now you're an over-the-counter traded stock, pink slip type or whatever.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're pink slip for the next couple weeks, and then we'll be bulletin aboard.
		But we do qualify for NASDAQ.
		I mean, it's just a matter, there's a certain time that you have to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, that's exciting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really exciting.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		We'll be out there, and we have already a fairly active market in our stock, despite the fact it's on the pink sheets, which makes it harder to get a hold of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but not impossible.
		And then soon eventually NASDAQ.
		That's really exciting.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Anybody that just takes our symbol, M-L-E-R, and goes to the broker can buy stock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		M-L-E-R?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's your symbol, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, you, you know, I tried to press you to come on the air about two, three times since last time I had you on the air.
unidentified		And you always said, no, no, no, we want to wait.
unidentified		We want to wait.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got some testing to do, and we want to have something to tell you when we come on the air.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Right?
		That was exactly my response.
		And of course, when we flew the Skycorps in July of this year for the first time, the 400 that made things very different and now that we're a public company meaning that people who believe or would like to be a participant in this can become part of our company that's also a very big change take me back to July I mean what what happened in July tell me exactly what happened and what you did well we we have a we have people who are already invested in our company have in many cases possessed
		options to buy additional stock but one of the conditions was that after we did a demonstration flight they would have to exercise that option and other would go ahead and buy the stock within ninety days or they would lose it sure what we did that flight it was a flight of one minute uh...
		in a very control manner out of ground effect and uh...
		that was the demonstration we did we typically don't fly brave long because we don't use a very large amount of fuel on board because the danger during these test flights of and one minute flight hovering in conditions that sometimes were very windy what was it quite an accomplishment for us and that started the ball rolling and allowed us to raise a good deal of capital from these options that have to be exercised well exactly what did you do i mean you say you spent one minute hovering on we took off from the ground of course and and
		rose to about twenty feet uh...
		and it by the way that flight can be seen on the on our internet site uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		i as i just explained you doctor uh...
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		will be trying to access your side here in the last little while know i we do it be tough actually we think we put on a bunch of additional sites tonight to help this because we've had uh...
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		you know we've had as many as a couple hundred uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		thousand hits a day even in the past you know we know with this show we'll probably feel a lot more that's crippling right now but i you know people should be patient in the next day or two it'll lighten up and you'll be able to get into your saying you've got video there's video on our website showing these guy car flying wow uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		since everybody doesn't have a computer and since not everybody's available to see this lucky few will uh...
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		describe in words what you see in the video well this vehicle is about the size of an automobile eight and a half feet wide about nineteen feet long uh...
		so to be honest it's a larger size car but it still would fit in a single car garage right um...
		it it carries four passages as i said it has a bubble canopy it has four lifting what we call nacelles one each corner of the vehicle and in each nacelle there are two engines driving independent fans these are the devices that generate the thrust or the lift of the air this air is then deflected as it leaves the duct downwards or backwards depending on whether you're hovering or going forward so it takes off like a helicopter with the air being deflected downwards and then
		what we call transitions to air dynamic flight where the air is then deflected progressively further and further backwards until it becomes as you said earlier a bit like a jet airplane um...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		our military has a version of a vertical takeoff plane that i think we we fly uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		it's a british thing isn't it the what's it called the hawker uh...
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		harrier jump jack the harrier jump jack uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		now they've had some you know pretty recent terrible disasters with the harrier uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and i wonder if you could reflect for me on me on what you know about that and why you think they're having trouble with the harrier well the harrier like any vertical takeoff aircraft uh.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		is is obviously very dependent on something going wrong with a power plant and that has a single engine so if that engine skips a beat that aircraft is on the ground in a in a heap it's a rock it's absolutely a rock in fact that's a very if you think about that aircraft it weighs about 20,000
		pounds but it has 40,000 horsepower so it barely has enough as a result of the weight of that engine and just barely enough to take off vertically it normally actually does a jump it it goes down a short runway hits a ski ramp so to speak and jumps into the air and and then it comes back after it's used up its fuel it can land vertically it's a very clever aircraft we've got to give a lot of credit to what they achieved with that but it still uses one engine and that's not the kind of vehicle i want to get in when i'm hovering over some very hard
		just surface below me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		So you don't see any relationship to what your Skycar ultimately will be with respect to the problems of the Harrier.
		It's all a matter of how many engines you've got, one engine.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		We have the ability to have an engine failing.
		You can assume in all fares that if you own a vehicle like this over a significant period of time, you're likely to have a bird go into the fan.
		There's a number of things that could happen that would be unforeseen, even though our engines are probably the most reliable engine you could possibly have.
		It's still going to happen, and the beauty of the system is that you can then continue to hover or you can deploy the parachutes in some very catastrophic situation because we have parachutes that bring the vehicle down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What a good idea.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		In case that should happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Parachutes.
		What a really good idea.
		And they would support the aircraft in the worst-case scenario?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		They would bring it down.
		Now, you'd damage the aircraft somewhat because it's hard to make an aircraft land so soft with parachutes, but you would survive without being hurt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's important.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everything else is insurance, right?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it would take you to the ground with a bumpy ride, perhaps, but you'd live.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		You would live and you wouldn't be injured.
		We know that.
		You would just have a kind of a crunched bottom side of the vehicle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Insurance.
		All right.
		So that's great.
unidentified		Where do you go from here?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, now all of a sudden, all right, you're becoming a public company.
		You're going to have the financing you need.
		What's the next step?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, we know that we're going to be building military vehicles.
		We've had a lot of interest in the military.
		One of the problems that we've always had in our businesses is generating the kind of capital that's required to build a number of vehicles so that if something goes wrong, it wouldn't be catastrophic for the company.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, but, doctor, you're not going to let the military take this away from us, are you?
unidentified		Oh, no.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		No.
		One of the beauties of what we have done is that we've been able to build a number of vehicles that we have never accepted or solicited a military contract for the sky car so we have developed this entirely with our own capital or i would say the capital of some very some very uh considered people uh in the United States.
		And so we have complete freedom to take this purely into the civilian area.
		But there's always some advantage in building it for the military initially because it can happen quicker.
		They can test it.
		They got good pilots.
		And of course, it's good for the country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I suppose it's just that great.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I know exactly.
		I mean, I've always been very, very careful about this and gone out of my way not to.
		I've accepted money for unmanned versions of this for military and civilian applications, but I've never got a dollar for the Skycar or ever tried to get a dollar for the Skycar from the military.
		But you can always sell the hardware.
		That's very different.
		Build vehicles, sell them to the civilian market, and also make them available for people that want to buy them for the military.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, you know, a little different.
		Yeah, okay, fine.
		Let's discuss, for that reason, what the military application would be.
		I mean, what do you see our military using something like this for?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the military, interestingly enough, and I'll speak specifically about the Army right now, has this vision that in the future what they would like to do is break gravity.
		They have a term called breaking gravity.
		They want to see an airborne army.
		And I don't mean by that necessarily so much of the fighting component, but say the medivac component, the logistics component where they can bring a payload, about four by four by five foot payload to the front lines when it's needed in an emergency.
		And the Skycar is that vehicle.
		In fact, they've even given it a name within the military called a Lam V LAMV, standing for Light Airborne Multipurpose Vehicle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's very proud of that.
		Yeah, that really sounds got the military ring to it.
		Who gave it that moniker, do you know?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		A very decent supporter, Colonel Harmon, within the sort of the battlefield of the future.
		He's been an ardent supporter of ours.
		But of course, you know, there's a tremendous amount of resistance within the helicopter community, within the military forces.
		They have a vested interest in things with big rotors on top, and they're not about to give that up easily, I can guarantee you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there are large forces potentially aligned against you in the military.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The military is a very political thing, isn't it?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It seems that way.
		It's like a two-handle thing because I've had this very great support from someone like Colonel Harmon, who's written very supportive articles in military journals about this.
		And then I've had individuals, which I won't name, who have clearly done everything they can, surprisingly not dissimilar to what they did to undermine the Wright brothers.
		The military was a very antagonistic entity with regard to the efforts of the Wright brothers.
		It is something where something new comes along, I've got it.
		If it's not government-generated, they're very antagonistic towards it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you make Blackhawks and you've got billions of dollars invested in Blackhawks or whatever the latest is, you might be concerned about what Dr. Mueller's doing, right?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Some might.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Again, I say there's a good contingent in there that have been highly supportive of us, and I have to give them credit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But whether or not the military decides to become involved with this, you can develop and deploy the SkyCar, right?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely, and we will.
		I mean, that's an adjunct to what we're doing.
		It's an exciting way to underwrite some of the costs, but I believe that our support, because of what we've seen already from outside interests, will be high enough that we will be able to fund this project.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Either way.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Either way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Dr. Hold on.
unidentified		You're listening to Arc Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 19, 2002.
		Oh, my beautiful blue moon The world is lifeless place in my beautiful blue And where the night's our face is my beautiful blue We can't feel the song is there on the silver sky For we can't
		fly, up and away my...
		outro music outro music outro music outro music *outro
		music* outro music outro music outro music
		outro music Thank
		you.
		Thank you.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program Originally aired September 19, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Obviously, a lot of you dream of this kind of flight, as do I, Dr. Mahler, and others.
		Well, here it is, folks.
		We've got it for you.
		Take a look.
		You get to our picture, at least on the website.
		His website's kind of jammed up right now, but you'll get to it in the next day or so.
		It's all about a personal flying vehicle.
		I wonder if it's going to be available, in Dr. Mahler's opinion, in our lifetime.
		That seems like a really good question.
unidentified		We'll ask it in a moment.
unidentified		We take you back to the night of September 19, 2002, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here is Dr. Paul Mueller.
		And Doctor, it's a pretty good question.
		If everything went reasonably smoothly with investment and production and politics and regulation and all the rest of it, if everything went fairly smoothly, when could we possibly expect to see people starting to get into these and flying?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a limited number because the cost will be high when the volume is initially not large, as little as three years.
		That's about what that's sort of the maximum length that we would expect FA certification to take.
		Building the aircraft is not a problem.
		Building fairly large numbers of the aircraft is not a problem.
		But you have to pass FA's certification.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but three years.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		But it would still be a fairly expensive machine because, of course, the volume would not be there at that time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you imagine that you would have to take a test and qualify, as you do, to drive a car right now to use an air car?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, there is, interestingly enough, there's already a PODIS license for it.
		The FAA has already a PODIS license in place called a Powered Lift POTUS license.
		So they're anticipating it happening.
		I think the best number I can give you is the one put forward by the head of NASA, Dr. Daniel Golden, who said that he felt that these vehicles would be in the hands of 25% of the American population within 10 years and 90% of the population within 25.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel.
		That's our lifetime's all right, I hope.
		Tom in Orlando, Florida asks a really good question.
		What is the range presently of this vehicle without having to refuel?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		900 miles.
		Which is interesting enough.
		You asked the nerdier question, you know, would the big airplanes still be around?
		They would, but they would be flying the long distances because 80% of the flights today are less than 900 miles.
		So we could get rid of 80% of those flights, and then all of a sudden you could get to an airport and actually get on an airplane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, hey, the way things are going for commercial airlines right now, you'll be lucky if there are any more of them flying in the skies by the time you get the aircar off.
		Do you plan to make, or has anybody even envisioned, Doctor, this is from Alberta, Canada, something bigger, you know, like a bus version of the sky car?
		I mean, if you can have a sky car, can you have a sky bus?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		No, you can't.
		It's interesting.
		Ooh, really?
		Yeah, the laws of physics are interesting.
		You can't avoid them.
		This is not magic.
		This is real physical laws.
		It turns out that you can get as big as six passengers, which is really stretching it.
		The only reason I'm going that direction is because there's a real interest in carrying 1,500-pound payload.
		So you can go to six passengers.
		Then you have to go to like the V-22 Osprey, the one with the rotating, large rotating propellers that had some bad publicity from crashes.
		That's the next appropriate design.
		And though it's sensibly thought out, it just turns out to be a terribly expensive machine that's had its share of problems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, what about this?
		The environmentalists out there, who are already going wacko over everything we're doing, driving around and all the rest of it, they're going to go totally berserk.
		Even if it's not justified, the environmentalists are going to go berserk and they're going to say, we're going to destroy the entire world with this.
		Right?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		There will be a certain amount that will.
		I think we can make some of them happy.
		And the way we can do that is because our emissions level with our engine operating and the conditions is so low that at least that part of our operation can be defended.
		There's certainly going to be people that don't want something flying over their heads, but I'm afraid that they're going to have to live with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think you'd be able to make a pretty good case for the environmentalist versus the present automobile setup that we've got right now?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Right, because the automobile today is intricate enough, and not a lot of people know that.
		About 90% of the emissions, actually over 90% of the emissions, occur in slow traffic or stopped in traffic.
		The automobile is actually pretty efficient, the modern car going down the highway at 60, 70 miles an hour.
		But it's terribly inefficient, as a skycar would be if it was idling.
		But there's no such a thing as idling with a skycar.
		You're either flying very fast or you're stopped and the engine's no longer running when you land on the ground.
		So we have a situation where the engine is a very low-pollutant device in the first place, plus it's operated much more efficiently.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Miles in Lubbock, Texas.
		Pretty good question.
		Miles says, hey, it's daylight.
		I want to check my cattle.
		Can I fly around the ranch at 15 or 20 miles an hour forward speed or cruise over the hill to the next ranch at 80 to 100 miles away for coffee or whatever?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no problem at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		You fly over your own ranch.
		Once this thing is certified, you own it.
		You're free to do anything you want within your airspace over your ranch actually.
		You have some limitation if you go above 500 feet.
		But 500 feet down, that's your airspace.
		You still have to have FA certification to fly in it, but you can do what you want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would there be any application?
		There's a lot of development underway right now with fuel cells, you know, Ballard up in Canada, and a lot of people are talking about fuel cells as a fuel of the future and all the rest of that.
		Hydrogen, actually.
		Would that be one possible fuel that's being considered for the...
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It is being used extensively by BMW in Europe right now.
		So I think hydrogen is a good choice.
		The problem really is storage.
		It is very efficient per pound, but of course it is very light per pound, too.
		So it's a trade-off issue.
		I think it's something that's probably at least 10 years away, as I think the fuel cell is for automobiles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About 10 years.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Both those would probably come about, because I think fuel cells will drive the cost of hydrogen down.
		It'll generate technologies for generating hydrogen.
		And hydrogen has some advantages.
		But I think they're at least 10 years away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		How about the political aspects of this?
		Now you've got Ford and GM and, you know, really big, big, big money producing these cars that go along the ground.
		Now, how are they going to react to Dr. Mueller and your company producing something that's going to go zipping through the air and make that look like the horsen buggy?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have to be honest.
		There's no way that I'm going to control this technology as far as manufacturing.
		I mean, I'm going to have to license it.
		If this is going to be a major item in transportation, I'm going to have to join forces with a BMW or a Ford or some good manufacturing company.
		And I don't mind that.
		I mean, it makes sense to do so.
		I've already made a presentation to Ford, and I've had both Hond and BMW visit me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
		Most people in your position, or a lot anyway, over history, have tried to fight them.
		So instead of fighting them, you're going to join them.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		I mean, I'm a technologist.
		I really enjoy creating.
		And I have, of course, manufactured products in the past.
		People who are familiar with the Super Trap Muffler, which is fairly well known, was a product that I developed, and we manufactured in large numbers.
		But when it comes to something this big, and if it's really going to have universal use, it's going to be produced by a number of companies.
		And that would be very satisfying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When we talk about the military, there's another aspect of the U.S. government that it seems to me there would be application for.
		For example, a gym in Lake Havasu City, Arizona says, what do you think of the Skycar?
		How about being used for applications like the Border Patrol?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, paramilitary applications are really big, and they're ideal because one of the problems with sort of drug interdiction today is that you've got airplanes that go fast, but they can't land vertically.
		And you've got helicopters that can land vertically, but they can't go fast.
		And so trying to catch these guys can be extremely difficult because they'll dump their plane into the jungle, wipe out the plane, but survive and run off with the drugs.
		A vehicle like this would make it very difficult since it can fly almost as fast as a jet airplane.
		It can land vertically.
		I think it would be extremely difficult for the drug people to get away with when the paramilitary groups have this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the other hand, the drug guys would have it too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, there are ways to control that, of course.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		In the world that I've described where we have a completely electronically integrated control network, we're going to know everybody who's out there.
		I mean, that's one element where security of, you know, personal security, people worrying about knowing who they are and where they are, is going to go away.
		We're going to know where everybody is and who they are up there at all times.
		So it's going to be part of a changing world, not just because of the sky car, but because that's the way we're going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, isn't this likely to totally destroy these speed trap towns?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I suppose so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somebody asks about diesel as a fuel.
		Diesel, of course, is a very interesting fuel in many, many ways.
		It's used by truckers to get so much across the nation, and the average person doesn't realize the advantages of a diesel engine versus a piston engine.
		So what about diesel as a fuel?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we've been running for the last year, we've been running on diesel fuel in our engine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		And one of the advantages of diesel, of course, is that it is in some countries a very inexpensive fuel compared to the alternatives, like India, for example.
		Plus, it's a fuel that has a...
		It's much less likely to catch fire, even though it burns just as rapidly when it does.
		So we have actually been running this.
		In fact, we've been running it on a combination of diesel and water and gasoline and water and alcohol and water.
		Believe it or not, when you mix these two together, you get a very fire-resistant fuel that still burns very well in our engine.
		There's no magic about it.
		We're not getting power out of the water.
		The water just serves as a factor in the emissions and in also the safety that go with the combination.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is so incredible.
		I mean, and you're talking about three years.
		We might see this thing in some sort of limited public application, three years.
		How much of an uphill battle do you have to fight with, you know, I don't know, the FAA, whoever certifies this sort of thing before it can fly?
		How much of an uphill battle?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, they have been pretty cooperative so far.
		We've played a part in writing the rules, the certification rules, because, of course, really there is nobody else out there that's building this kind of vehicle.
		So when it comes to a civilian version of what's called a power lift aircraft, they've had to look to us to give them some feel for what is going to be necessary.
		But it's a bureaucratic organization.
		So you're going to face that typical problem.
		Hopefully, if you have enough funds, you can certainly speed that process up, because you don't exactly bribe them, but you certainly help the process if you can provide a lot of capital along the road.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's such a, I mean, it is, it's such a radical departure That it virtually is kind of like going from the horse and buggy to the powered car.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's that big of a jump, isn't it?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It will be because it'll do so much to change the demographics of how we live.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		If you can make a 60-mile commute in 15 minutes, you're going to see people moving out of the cities who now live there just because of the inconvenience of getting in and out of that city.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, so in other words, it's going to redistribute the population.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It'll change real estate values pretty significantly.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I would want to be one of the first people selling my apartment in San Francisco if I could before everybody else moved out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because that's just what they do.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there is so much...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you think we're all packed together, and we are, of course, in the cities, but when you look at what could be done, most of America is empty.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It's empty because of limited access, difficult to get to, and that could change enormously.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Skycar would change that right away, wouldn't it?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It would change it very rapidly.
		I think it's an important factor in the future of the way we live, that kind of transportation.
		Again, in all fairness, I'm not saying the Skycar is going to be the only version.
		I think the technology we have is going to be a part of everything that is developed in the future, but this is going to be an evolving technology.
		We've shown that the vehicle can be practical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you have for competition now, Doctor?
		What else is out there?
		I mean, is there anybody breathing down your corporate neck?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		No, interesting enough, there's two sides of that coin, of course.
		One is that big companies or major investment groups are not willing to participate because they don't see the future of this technology.
		On the other hand, I'm left alone and I'm able to generate large numbers of patents without anybody competing with me.
		So I have some major benefits from being left alone for the moment.
		So I feel comfortable with where we are, particularly with where we now have become with being a public company and being able to raise capital in a much more open manner.
		This is a big change for us, and it's very exciting for the future of the Skycar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The whole thing is exciting.
		So exciting.
		Have you maintained, you know, I mean, you're right there every day.
		So I don't know if you maintain the same level of excitement about this that you once did.
		I suppose it's become a down-hard business for you now, but it's still that the excitement that people feel right now hearing about this, does that stay excited?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It's terribly exciting.
		I mean, most days I can't wait to get to work because we always have some going on, whether it's finding ways to eliminate noise, whether it's ways to increase the efficiency of the engine or reduce the emissions or demonstrate some new component of the improving technology.
		Every day is exciting.
		And it's certainly the most exciting time of the development now that we have the opportunity to build a number of these rather than just a few demonstrators.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to be at the Texas State Fair, it says, in Dallas, Texas, September 27th through October 20th.
		What does that mean?
		Does that mean you're taking the Skycar?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		We're taking a non-flying mock-up, but it's pretty complete in every way.
		It shows the vehicle, and you get a real sense for it in terms of appearance, and you can sit in it theoretically.
		It has all the electronics on board.
		Really?
		And it's been all over the world.
		We've had it in Malaysia, we've had it in Abu Dhabi, it's been in Amsterdam, it's been at the Paris Air Show, it's been at the Paris Show in Farnborough in England.
		It's been a good source of information for people who've come to various shows around the world to see it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then early next year, I hear you're going to have a demonstration of the first production, the M400 model, designed possibly for military sales.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that right?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, the model we'll demonstrate will be a civilian model, certainly, at that stage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, I mean, you're going to do a full-scale demo?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		We're going to what we, right now I'm reluctant to fly the vehicle because I don't, you know, really push it because I only have one of them.
		And if something were to go wrong, it would be very difficult for our test program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How confident, as a matter of curiosity, are you, that if you decided to risk it and fly the vehicle, it would fly well?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'd like to get away from the ground as far as possible at the beginning and rely upon aerodynamic flight and the parachutes if something went wrong, because, of course, the most dangerous region is that region near the ground.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		We do have the parachutes, but they do take some time to open.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Unless you're going forward, of course.
		Actually, you don't have to be going that fast, even 25 miles an hour, and the parachutes will open very quickly.
		But hovering is risky when you're just starting out, because there's just, even though this is a simple machine in many ways, there's still a lot of computer software in board, and we all know about computer software.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, we do.
		Oh, yes, we do.
		But still, the question hangs, if you had to do it, are you fairly confident that the SkyCar would fly?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we know it'll fly, and we feel very comfortable that it'll fly safely, even with a fader, which is the critical part of this device.
		We've set it up so that there's no single component in this vehicle that could fail, that would bring down the entire aircraft.
		Whereas if you think of a helicopter today and you've seen the number of parts that are going around and I think, you can lose one net or one bolt in a number of places in that vehicle and you've lost the vehicle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know we've had recent tragedies here.
		Doctor, have you considered the implications of increasing the roles of the Mile High Club so far as to make the whole thing meaningless?
		Hold on.
		We're at the top of the arrow.
		When we come back, we'll take phone calls for Dr. Paul Mueller.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 19, 2002.
		I know that you have because there's magic in my eyes.
		I can be for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles.
		Oh, yeah.
		Hit me baby that I don't know about the little tricks you play and never see you until deliberately put me into my head 10 children that have audits.
		I was in last night, and you know that I shouldn't, just to hear a lot, it's not right, if I couldn't have won, and why?
		But what can I do?
		I'll all the truth and it makes me happy for my girlfriend.
		that girl You'll distinguish Art Bell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks tonight an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 19, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean after all, how's the back seat of a 57 Chevrolet differ all that much from the back seat of a 2007 Mueller Sky Car?
unidentified		The only difference to the altitude, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Paul Mahler is here, developer of the Sky Car that you can see on the web.
		It's incredible.
		I mean, it's just absolutely incredible.
		And it's coming within, say, three or four years.
		It's coming, folks.
		It's a reality.
		So we're not talking about science fiction here.
		we're talking about fact that's about to be in production.
unidentified		Dramatic Music
		Weird Stories on the Radio Must Be Coast to Coast A.M. with George Norrie.
		You know, when I started doing this radio program, Jesse, half of the subjects I was really into, the paranormal, the unusual, the ghosts, and things like that.
		The conspiracy stories, you know, I was a little weary about these, other than the Kennedy assassination.
		And all of a sudden, I woke up.
		I simply woke up.
		Is that what happened with you two?
		Yeah, that's when I really started to say, what is going on here?
		And I started to truly then investigate 9-11.
		And today, I don't believe the government story of 9-11.
		Here's the three options.
		Either we knew about it and allowed it to happen, or we knew about it and participated in it, or these were the dumbest buffoons that could have ever been in charge of our country who could have all this pre-information.
		And I started to think they knew it was going to happen.
		They either are part of it or they allowed it to.
		There's no doubt in my mind.
		You're listening to Arc Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 19, 2002.
		Coast to Coast AM from September 19, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, I've asked a lot of what I can think of to ask, pretty much.
		And so I'm going to turn Dr. Mahler over to you for the balance of the program.
		Let you ask questions, whatever you'd like to ask about this incredible thing that's coming.
		It's really coming.
		In fact, it exists now and will be available for first military use, three years maybe, and then within not too many more to all of us.
		Try and imagine that in your head for all of us.
		A frequent problem, Doctor, with commercial aircraft is when they ingest some kind of bird or something into an engine, and that's big trouble.
		I mean, you know, geese or whatever, and something flies into the engine, a bird, and down you go.
		What about the Mueller Sky Car?
		Again, I guess you would tell us, you lose an engine and keep going.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		We will have, we don't presently have it, but we will have a very large cell, what they call a stainless steel honeycomb across the leading of the duct so that if something like that were to come along, it would sort of sift it into smaller pieces before it gets to the first fan.
		But even if it took out the first fan, we have a backup of the second fan.
		And we've had accidentally, I could like to say we did it on purpose, but we have sucked in some pretty nasty objects into the fan.
		Oh, really?
		I think the worst thing we sucked in was a huge roll of duct tape.
		And if you know anything about duct tape, you can imagine that's a pretty nasty thing to go into a fan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Definitely done.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It did cut it up into nice little pieces and set it on through.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		And we recently had a screwdriver go into the fan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		And it took a nick out of the fan, but didn't do any unbalance problems or anything.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		So, you know, indirectly in accidents over these many years that we've been testing our adductive fans, we've had a certain number of those kinds of things occur without any dire consequences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's remarkable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would we see like FedEx skycars, do you think?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I think that would be an excellent example, ability to deal with, you know, you can imagine what that would do for local delivery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		And so we think this is a very good commercial application for it early on.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		And the more vehicles we can build for whatever application, the cheaper they come and the more likely we can all afford to own them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, it sure would make that pizza guy's job easier, the one who's got to get there in 30 minutes or less or something.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It would change a few things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, for example, I wonder what kind of operating system.
		I mean, we've got Microsoft, right?
		And they've got something called the blue screen of death.
		Now, it would take on a new meaning in the air.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not familiar with that term, but I'm familiar enough with Microsoft that I choose to avoid it if I possibly could.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Because we've had a lot of, in our own applications, whenever we've used Microsoft, which we do quite often just because it has such a great database.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you must have seen that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When something goes wrong, you've got that blue screen where you've got to reboot completely.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, rebooting is a very common thing with Microsoft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I tell you.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		The terminology, I'm not a very good person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's slang.
		Microsoft would never say that, of course, blue screen of death.
		They don't call it that.
		But the blue screen of instruction.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		but it's essentially moves to have definitely in a sky car would be And we write our own programs.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		And, of course, when you do a redundant system, say you have four computers, you have a completely separate group of people writing each one of those programs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So again, to answer the question, you'd have your own operating system.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		We do.
		And we make sure that each computer has a different set of programmers.
		So if there's a mistake made that you can't catch or you won't see until later in life, hopefully, then it would be backed up into another computer which is written by a different person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I was not aware of this, but I'm told by one of my computer folks here that you are a big fan of Edgar Casey's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that true?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Absolutely.
		All right.
		Then can we ask you, you know, Edgar Casey, did he ever mention any details that you're aware of about the Atlantean Sky vehicles?
		There was something about that, wasn't there?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, yes.
		There was a definite reference to vehicles of some sort that were powered by some ground microwave.
		You know, again, you're trying to interpret things that don't translate very well because they're expressed in terminology that's a little biblical in many ways.
		But there were certainly many references to the fact that there were airborne vehicles if in fact Lantis was a reality.
		And certainly Casey seems to believe through what he's, his information source that it did exist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So this would be like part of Atlantis Rising, wouldn't it?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It could be.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It's an interesting thought.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's go to the phone and see what's out there.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Paul Mueller.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		I've enjoyed every minute of the show tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		My question is, does the doctor think that this is going to be truly successful without total human control?
unidentified		Because I'm having a hard time believing that.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Oh, without human control.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		You're wondering if it could be successful?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, let's try that question this way.
		Right now, I don't drive it all that frequently, but I've got a Firebird Trans Am out there.
		I love that thing.
		And every now and then, not that I would ever exceed the speed limit, but I do go out in the country here where I live.
		We have desert here.
		And I go fast sometimes.
		You know, just for fun.
		And I operate the vehicle.
		Now, his question is a pretty good one when you think about it.
		In other words, if you take the actual handling and operation of the vehicle and the thrill of the drive, the thrill of the control, the control, if you take that away, will it be accepted by the general public?
		That's a pretty good question.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that like any new system, it's going to have to prove itself.
		It's going to have to be out there and establish a level of safety.
		That's one of the reasons, quite frankly, that we think a good way to introduce this is to the military.
		Not because we love the military particularly, but because it will have a chance to be sort of what they call electronics burned in.
		There will be a chance for you to find out if there's things that are wrong with it.
		But in that mode, if your life is caught up in traffic, you're going to have a skycar for the practicality of it.
		They may also want it as a sports vehicle and use it the way you describe, which is perfectly acceptable.
		But in terms of mass transportation, if that's going to be what this vehicle serves its purpose as, it's going to be something that everybody's going to want it as badly as people want it, a television set when they...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe worse.
		Of course, now, again, though, in a car, you know, if you're even halfway cool, you have a standard transmission, not an automatic, stupid, dummy transmission.
		And you enjoy switching gears and feeling the power when you tromp it to the floor and all of that stuff.
		Now, that's pretty much gone with a Skycar.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can fly this vehicle just like you fly an airplane.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		You can do loops and rolls and any of those things.
unidentified		Oh.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		You don't do them within the controlled airspace, so to speak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh!
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, nothing.
		This vehicle, when I fly it, I have a stick on my left hand which controls the rate of climb and the altitude I'm after.
		And my right hand controls a stick that says you push it forward, you go forward, you pull it backwards, you put the brakes on, and you stop on a dime and you push it sideways or roll it sideways, you go sideways, you twist it and you turn.
		So it's two sticks, one in each hand, and that's your total control technology.
		Now, that, of course, is taken out of your hands when it's moved into a control network.
		But it's there and available to you early on, and if you want to have that and fly outside of a given airspace where these systems are unlocked, when you're in the airspace, they won't do anything for you.
		Outside the airspace, they'll be unlocked, and you can do what you want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the thrill of driving can still be the thrill of driving time since when you're flying, right?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wild Cardaline, you're on the air with Dr. Paul Mueller.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, Art, and Mr. Mueller.
unidentified		How are you all this evening?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine, sir.
unidentified		Very good.
		I'm in Indiana.
		This is Chuck.
		I'm listening to y'all next year.
		And, Art, one thing for you.
		George and Barber do a great job.
		It's great to have the master back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		What's up, sir?
		Would you have a question?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		On this license for the car, is it going to be something akin to maybe a multi-engine aircraft, or is it going to be something that's much simpler, something more attainable for the average person?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, this is a very, very good question.
		We should come back to this.
		He's asking about licensing.
		You know, what you'll have to go through to operate this vehicle.
		And you said there's already a license that exists.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		There's already a powered lift pilot's license, and there is no skill required to fly this vehicle.
		What is required is your knowledge of what they call ground school.
		What do you have to do?
		What are the rules of the air?
		What do you have to watch out for?
		Because the vehicle itself is like giving you onboard lessons at all times.
		It does what you want it to do, but it does it in a controlled manner inherent in the design.
		So it'll be very easy to fly.
		And as I said earlier, I've been the test pilot for the last 30 years.
		I've never had a pilot's license.
		It's very easy to fly.
		I've never felt that I was in danger flying this vehicle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But directly answer the question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The license that would be involved, you envision, would be something that would be in the grasp of the average.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It would be simpler than a driver's license.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
amazing kreskin ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it definitely...
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I don't think that's necessarily what they should be doing, but that is true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But yeah, you're right.
		So that's simple.
		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on there with Dr. Mueller.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Travis from Richmond, Kentucky.
		Thank you, Art, for having me on.
		Sure.
		And Dr. Mueller, I'm very excited to get a chance to ask you this question.
		Probably 15, 20 years ago, someone, a friend, I think maybe a CV club, held out this as a dream.
		And I think he knew of some development about this sky car.
		I'm totally blind.
		And he said, you know, if you had the money, just think you could get one of these things and go by yourself anywhere you want.
		You know, basically.
		Is that what this is?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That is exactly what is possible with this.
		Absolutely.
		You wouldn't be using it as a recreational vehicle because you would be using it as a really good way of getting from point A to point B. Which he has a tough time doing now without help.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're telling me somebody, a sightless person, could hop in, push the right buttons with audio, no doubt, assistance, and simply go from point A to point B, Chicago to LA, whatever.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		This is a fact.
		And a five-year-old theoretically could fly this thing because the only damage he could do is get himself to the wrong point.
		But you're coding in a number.
		Computers are taking you where you want to go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Trust me, five-year-olds will be in the air.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Probably.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At least they'll be safe, right?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		They'll be safe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They just might be away from home for a while.
		Now, Joshua and Fort Lauderdale asks, what about fueling?
		In other words, Could you or would you or would the vehicle be programmed to know where fuel is and when in need go and seek it out and stop if you were on a long trip?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that would all be programmed ahead of time.
		Since it's a 900-mile trip, if you were coding in a number that was more than the 900-mile range, it would automatically land at some point and be refueled along the line.
		That would not be difficult to add to the system.
		The system is pretty intelligent because it is a digital system with a lot of programming power, so you could pretty much ask it to do almost anything, and it would be capable of doing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We've come a little ways with regard to service of automobiles.
		I mean, it used to be that you had to have a tune-up pretty quick.
		I mean, a few thousand miles, you had to have a tune-up.
		Now, I think you can go like a lot of cars 100,000 miles before you even get a tune-up.
		What would the service service would be mandatory with these engines as you now know about it, as you think it will be commercially?
		What would service be like?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, we would do what's called monitored maintenance in the sense that you have on board a lot of vibration sensors oil contamination sensors fuel contamination sensors so that you have a lot of onboard monitoring even as we have it now the maintenance will be we don't know of course the total length of time because we haven't had enough experience but we know it's something in excess of a couple thousand hours it appears from our tests that the engine
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		has a capability running well over 10,000 hours which of course at you know 300 miles an hour is 3 million miles so you would have the equivalent of check engine soon you know that light right checking engines or some particular component that needs being checked but you could talk about as much as a million miles between overhauls while you still would have as long as you have this preventive thing in place so that it would be it would be so good that even the women who just think the check engine
art bell ▲ ● ▼		soon light is a cute little thing that comes on they'd probably live longer well if the check light came on that they they since they're not controlling the aircraft when it stops like next time it won't take off until that is dealt with obviously oh so it would just sort of lock itself down right right oh that's excellent um all right uh let's fit one in if we can west of the rockies you're on the air with dr paul muller hello hi this is steve from phoenix hello steve hi i've been trying to call you since 1994 it is my first time giving
unidentified		me all these things that it discourages people go ahead okay well my question is anyways um last summer i heard a report that the army was making a um a vertical takeoff system for the um i guess it was for army rangers or special forces but it looked like it had two fans to the left and to the right side of the shoulder oh this is this is uh mr mosher mike mosher's uh what they call he called it at one point
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		exoskeleton they also called the solar trek i'm sure that's what you're talking about yeah it looks like um maybe like the size of a yeah it's an interesting thought uh what what is it well it's a it's a small it's really a small helicopter in a sense but instead of having a single rotor on top he has two ducted fans uh one on either side um driven by a single engine down below i guess my only concern would with that design would be if you lost that engine and it does have a number of
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		moving parts you'd be in the same situation you are with a with a small helicopter um i don't believe despite the fact that he's shown it uh making a noise i don't believe it's flown yet uh and i think it has some i don't think until they develop an automatic control system that they will be able to fly successfully and that turns out to be a very very expensive and time-consuming thing to do do you think that uh getting the financing that's likely to come with your change in status and
amazing kreskin ▲ ● ▼		going public will that allow the production of more test model uh sky cars yeah that that's we we already have the funding in place to build free more in the coming year oh so that we will be able to then get much more aggressive in our test flights and you know do some maybe do some loops and rolls and things like that instead of just going out there and hovering quietly yeah when you've only got one uh you don't risk much so in other words you've got enough that you've got enough money already to produce three more we got enough money coming
art bell ▲ ● ▼		in to these options that i told you about exercised by our existing stockholders that we will be able to do that uh i guess a lot of what you said a lot of what you're going to have to end up doing is licensing and i'm i'm sure that's correct do you think the name the muller sky car will remain as a name ford has true licensing and agreements and all the rest of that baloney you got to go through will it still be the
amazing kreskin ▲ ● ▼		muller cars sky car well it may not you know we have a
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		another I you know I'm at heart I'm a technocrat you know I love technical words and the name Skycar was given by the press and maybe it maybe it sticks maybe you don't get away from it any more than you got away from Kleenex all right doctor hold on we'll be right back we're taking calls for Dr. Paul Mahler the Skycar it'll probably stick you're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from
unidentified		September 19th, 2002.
		All my troubles will pass, cause I'm shoo shoo shoo, shoo shoo shoo, shoo shoo shoo shoo shoo, sugar town.
		I never had a dog that liked me some, never had a friend that wanted one, so I just laid back.
		Don't you love her ways, tell me what you say.
		Don't you love her manly, wanna meet her daddy.
		Don't you love her face, don't you love her as she's walking out the door.
		Like she did one thousand times before.
		Don't you love her ways, tell me what you say.
		Don't you love her as she's walking out the door.
		All your love, all your love, all your love.
		Don't you love her as she's walking out the door.
		don't you love her don't you love her she's walking out the door you're listening to art fell somewhere in time tonight featuring a replay of coast to coast a m from september nineteenth 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		Dr. Paul Mahler is my guest.
		He's the guy who's invented, now flown, the sky car.
		It's not a dream anymore.
		It's been in the air.
		And within just a few years, you might find yourself seated in one.
		Stay right where you are.
		More questions for Dr. Mueller directly ahead.
unidentified		SHARE!
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of September 19, 2002, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art Bell Once again, here's Dr. Paul Mueller, and I want to remind everybody that he's approaching being actually a publicly traded company.
		You can get it now, I guess, Pink Slip.
		Pink sheets they're called.
		M-L-E-R is the symbol, M-L-E-R.
		So, you know, investments, I guess, always about the future and what you believe the future holds.
		And I wonder what it is that most of you out there believe the future holds.
		If you think it's this, then that might be a good way to go.
		Doctor, welcome back.
		Okay, here we go.
		Just a million people want to talk to you.
		Oh, one quick question.
		Somebody asks by computer about the amount of oxygen.
		In other words, on a long trip, obviously, at 25,000 feet, you're going to need oxygen.
		So what would be practical, weight-wise, do you believe, to carry on board?
		How much oxygen?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, you just, if you pressurize the aircraft like we do today with a commercial airliner, then you don't need to have oxygen because you keep it at an altitude which provides enough oxygen for you.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		So our airliners today are pressurized, I believe, at about 8,000 feet effectively, even when they're up at 30,000 feet, we would do much the same thing.
unidentified		Huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess it would treat your ears the same way?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, that, yeah, you have to be, again, pressurization is important because this climbs so fast.
		It climbs at over a mile a minute.
		So that if you were to do that without the pressurization, it would be a painful experience.
		So pressurization, again, eases that process and makes it less painful, or at least hopefully not painful whatsoever, to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bad thing to do with a cold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever done that?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you to pack it in there like cement.
		All right, here we go.
		First time caller line.
		You're on the air with Dr. Paul Mueller.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, Doctor.
unidentified		I'm calling from the island of Kauai in Hawaii.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		And I'm a flight instructor here, and I have a business where I pick people up.
		We use these light aircraft calls.
		We call them trikes or the hang glider type wing.
		That's certified wing, 6G's positive, 4-negative.
		We have also the rocket parachute system on them.
		And they are, we basically, I cannot handle the amount of people now that want to come out to go and try this type of aviation.
		The public, you know, they're visiting here.
		We have a wide range of people from all over the world coming.
		And I'm just finding out that more and more people are so interested in having some form of personal flight.
		And this introduces them to them, and they can come up and show them how.
		And with the over-regulation of small aircraft and everything, people want to really experience personal flight.
		So this idea of your Skycar scene, I think, is just going to be, it should be just awesome.
		I feel I have a pulse on the public because of the amount of people that call and want to try this.
		It's amazing.
		These are similar to, I don't know if any of you guys have seen that movie Fly Away Home where they teach the animals to, you know, the geese and so on to migrate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, I have as much.
unidentified		Right.
		So these are the type of aircraft we're using, and there's many companies building them.
		And they're very small.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But basically what you're saying is the interest in this kind of personal flight is right on through the roof.
unidentified		It's huge.
		And the age range is typically 35 and above.
		We find that pretty solid.
		There's a few of us here in the state doing this for a living, and we all have that same consensus, 35 and above.
		So people have this type of income that were interested in this type of personal flight.
		And it's huge.
		The interest is there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		That's very clear.
		Doctor, I guess you're depending on that, aren't you?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, that's great.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I mean, anything that opens people up to the opportunity to fly, and if you can make them feel safe in the process and also make it utilitarian, where they can enjoy it on one hand, is a recreational product, and they can enjoy it the other as something that gets them around efficiently, then I think that's the perfect future for us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, safe and flying would be a couple good words to see get together again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These are hard times.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even though the stats are still on our side with even conventional flight in terms of safety, somehow psychologically, you know, the 11th ruined us in some ways.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on air with Dr. Mueller.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, this is Gordon in Perump.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, in Perump?
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Listening to K-9.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		K-N-Y-E.
unidentified		Yeah, I had a question for Mr. Moeller.
unidentified		The videos on his site of his test flights show the engine nacelles mounted at a 45-degree angle, and I was wondering why that is, because I understood it was going to be vectored and not the nacelles turning.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is vectored and they turn.
		It's a combination.
		And there's a number of reasons we added the partial rotation.
		One was that we found that when the vehicles were horizontal near the ground, it tended to suck up a lot of debris.
		And so we found that the safest thing to do is rotate them partially, but the flow is still reflected in the exit by a series of veins that are part of our patent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you start out at a fixed 45-degree angle and then...
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's the lifting pods.
		And then the veins themselves go back to horizontal and then you end up in the previous configuration.
		But it's very observant of you to point that out that that is a change.
		It is a change.
		There's a number of other reasons, but I gave you the simple one, that it really helped prevent debris being sucked into the engine as it approaches the ground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How's that, sir?
unidentified		Oh, that's very good, and I certainly hope this takes off.
		I used to be a private pilot, and I'd sure like to be back to be able to fly again with a heart condition.
		Of course, I'd never get a license.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, you will get a power license, or lift.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Your heart condition is not going to be a problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Yeah, it wouldn't be, would it?
		In other words, the worst thing that would happen, I suppose, is he would arrive dead.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's the worst case.
amazing kreskin ▲ ● ▼		Not due to the Skycar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, just the heart.
		I mean, but it would deliver you safely to the ground.
		Or maybe the Skycar would even have...
		Would there be, for example, suppose you got up there and you were having a heart attack, could you press some kind of panic button that would take you to a hospital?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, I haven't thought about that, but it seems like a fairly simple thing to add to it, if it's got this kind of To the nearest hospital.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't see any reason that couldn't be a part of it.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		We haven't actually spent a lot of time thinking about that, but certainly we've talked to the medivac people because they're very interested in something that can land in the middle of a freeway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And here you might medevac yourself.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly right.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Paul Mueller.
		Hi.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in Omaha, Nebraska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And I had a question for you.
		Well, a couple, actually.
		First of all, are you getting a whole lot of static regarding the oil industry and how fuel efficient this thing would be?
		And the second question is, how do you define the controlled airspace, whether or not you're going to have, basically you're going to have complete control of the vehicle?
		How is that, or how do you control that delineate?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, right now, there is no highway in the sky in the way that we would envision it, but that is being worked on.
		I mean, if you study some of what they call the various controls, networks that they're proposing to put in place, that is going to come about.
		And again, as I said, it's going to be like highways.
		Every vehicle is going to be going down this highway at the same speed, following each other in a controlled manner.
		I don't know.
		I'm sorry.
unidentified		Sorry, go ahead.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		And you are the first question.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, what the first question was.
unidentified		The first question was, are you catching a whole lot of static from the oil industry regarding how efficient these vehicles are being?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that anything that increases our freedom is going to be utilized even more than perhaps in the past we've utilized.
		So while it may be fuel efficient, I think that the oil industry probably is going to, maybe they'll be threatened by the fact that we can run on alcohol, for example.
		But from the point of view of fuel consumption, generally, every year we use more fuel because people want more freedom.
		They want to go further.
		They want to go faster.
		And this is going to allow them to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On a personal basis.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's the important thing.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Dr. Paul Mueller.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		Hi, Doctor.
		We had a couple of questions.
		The first question I had is, when you're actually getting into the higher elevations, when you're getting to 30,000 feet, you're looking at extreme temperature differences.
		And I was wondering what you're working on as far as a system was like for breaking away ice, ice reduction, whether you're doing fluid movement or using ice breakers.
		And I also wanted to know if you're familiar with Eclipse aviation and the things that they're changing with actually having the big high-ray routes and the things like that that are changing with the FAA.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, we certainly are looking at the anti-icing issue.
		We've got a lot of onboard heating because we have a lot of onboard cooling for the engines with liquid which can be circulated through these fairly small wings and around the nose of the nacelles.
		So I think that icing is clearly an issue.
		You always have to deal with that.
		It's part of the certification process for all-weather flight.
		And we continue to do that, but it's not high in our priority list right now because of so many other things.
		Regarding the Eclipse aircraft, I think that's marvelous.
		I mean, that's a major breakthrough where you're going to have these small jet airplanes that will carry six or seven passengers and the planes can be purchased for under a million dollars.
		I think it's another form of transportation that complements what we're doing in a very favorable way.
unidentified		Yeah, that's wonderful.
		All right.
		Well, thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're welcome, sir, and thank you for calling.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Paul Mueller.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going once?
unidentified		Yes?
unidentified		Yeah, I was wondering about, you know, for people like in cities that, you know, are just, you know, going like around the corner, you know, down the block, does it have wheels and go on the ground?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
		Yeah, actually, pretty good question.
		Now, yeah, right, Doctor.
		In other words, there are still, even with your car, there are certain short trips, I mean, really short trips, that wouldn't justify air travel or would it?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me explain.
		The vehicle itself is street legal.
		It's street legal width, and it has wheels, and it's really classified, interestingly enough, in most states as a motorcycle because it's three-wheeled.
		So you don't have some of the DOT regulations.
		But it can drive for distances on the street.
		But the only reason you'd probably do that is to get from your home to a vertiport, someplace where you can take off, if you can't take off from your home.
		Otherwise, I think it's going to be complemented by owning an electric vehicle or something that is just much more practical for in-the-city usage.
		It's not a vehicle that you're going to want to park or run around in the city.
		Why drive when you can fly?
		So you're going to have a complementary world, I think, where you have electric vehicles or fuel cell-driven vehicles for up to 50 miles, and then for any trip over 50 miles, you'll use a skycar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much study has your company done on the social impact, the social, political, economic impact of a society airborne as we've been discussing?
		I mean it would be incredible.
		Besides shifting the people out of the cities, it would change, it seems like it would change every aspect of life right now.
		I mean commerce would change in so many ways.
		It would just change everything.
		The impact would be astounding.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		But what it does and what this type of vehicle would do, making assumptions that there'll be many other competing vehicles that have similar characteristics, is that it makes use of this enormous natural resource that is really unused today.
		We have this incredible major ground transportation problem and we have this wonderful medium in which to solve it, but we haven't made that connection.
		I always say that if we could get to the moon, and let me tell you, from an engineering point of view, getting to the moon is a hell of a lot more difficult than what I've done.
		And we did it, and we did it successfully.
		It was just a matter of national priorities.
		If we decide we want to put this kind of vehicle in the hands of every American, we can do it.
		It just maybe has to get a lot worse on the highway before congressmen can't get to the airport, and then they'll start thinking about alternatives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know how much worse it has to get.
		Listen, here's something.
		in the first years doctor isn't it likely that the rich will soar over the poor i mean that's pretty brutal way to put it but i mean that's not i think i think that may be true if you envision a vehicle as something that you necessarily purchase but
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		But if you can have a vehicle land at your doorstep where you go out and get in and there's nobody around, it's like renting a car really, except you don't have to get involved in that.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I think you'll see a lot more usage of this vehicle as a rental vehicle, perhaps as an air taxi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then the rental vehicle then potentially would like take off from Hertz, rent an air car, right?
		And it would land at your house with no pilot, just the door would open, there it would be, and you would have already paid by credit card or whatever debit system we have by then.
		And you just get in and go.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		That's probably 25 years away to do that.
		But 10 years away, you could go to a Vertiport, which may be two or three blocks away, and pick it up there.
		And so you could drive your electric vehicle to the Vertiport and take off and go anywhere from that point.
		And then in time, it'll land on your roof of your house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What a different world that would be.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Dr. Mueller.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, I got into this conversation kind of late, but I don't know what CO you said this thing runs on, but I was wondering about hydrogen, because that seems like that's a good idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you said they've done hydrogen, they've done diesel, they've done, I guess, gasoline, maybe.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		And gasoline, a lot of gasoline, and then alcohol, which is what we're flying with right now.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Hydrogen is a good choice, except that we still haven't solved some of the storage and safety issues associated with hydrogen.
unidentified		What about in hydride form?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, the problem with hydride is a good way to do it from the safety point of view, but it does add weight that is much more penalizing to something like a vertical takeoff aircraft than it would be for an automobile.
		So for the moment, where weight is extremely critical and something that has to lift itself off the ground by its bootstrap, we can't afford that extra weight.
		But I think with time, they'll find other forms of generating hydrogen that will be lighter, and I think hydrogen would be the fuel of choice at that time.
unidentified		Are you keeping in mind, you know, the environment and that sort of thing?
		Because, you know, like Ford didn't really think about that when he went to oil, you know?
		So are you kind of like, you know what oil has done to the planet, so I'm just wondering if you thought of a cleaner burning fuel.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		You know, our engine itself is remarkably low emissions.
		We have shown that the emissions out of our engine is lower than the ambient conditions in L.A. in many cases, so that you can actually breathe our exhaust preferentially over the air in L.A. But at the same time, it's still not perfect.
		And ideally, you would want to go to, as you say, hydrogen or even alcohol is better.
		And alcohol and water in combination is particularly good because it gets rid of the nitrous oxides as well.
		So there are ways to get very close to perfectly low emissions, but we aren't there yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Listen, there are going to be people who are going to want to contact you.
		I assume that contact with you is possible somehow or another through your website?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		They can get a hold of us.
		We have emails, of course, into our company, and we try to respond to them.
		But of course, often it becomes almost impossible to be that personal.
		We do have a question and answer section on our website.
		And if we have questions, we typically put answers to those questions back on our website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So like a frequently asked question section?
unidentified		Right.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		So if people come up with new questions, we'll add those on a weekly basis to our website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're pretty proactive on the website front, keeping people informed.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		We are.
		And of course, that's one of the reasons we've been successful in our business is that we've been very proactive in keeping our investors informed over the years.
		And we've had investors that joined us 35 years ago that continue to invest additional capital into our company because they've always felt comfortable that we were keeping them well informed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're obviously making leaps and jumps and flights and stuff.
		And that's what gets people really inspired.
		It's been a long time coming.
		I'm sure that getting it in the air was a big moment for you, wasn't it, in July?
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		It was.
		And, of course, you know, we've had previous successes of getting into the air, but they've been fair distances apart.
		So it's always important that the latest one, which is certainly the more appropriate vehicle, was flown.
		And people can see it on our website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Mueller, oh, what a pleasure to Have you on the air again, and when you make the next leap, I want you back.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Well, I really appreciate the opportunity.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		I certainly will join you again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, my friend.
paul moller ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's Dr. Paul Mueller and the Skycar from the High Desert.
		I'm Art Bell.
		And this is Coast to Coast.
unidentified		Hear the grass single things in our memories hole.

▲