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July 2, 2002 - Art Bell

02:53:13

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Candice DeLong - (Corrupt FBI)

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	Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	Featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 2nd, 2002 on Premier Networks.
	From the high desert in the great American Southwest, how did you all?
	Good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the entire world, or we cover it one way or the other.
	I'm Art Bell, and the program is Coast to Coast AM.
	I'd like to welcome yet another new affiliate to the network, It would be W-R-J-M-F-M in Geneva, Alabama, 93.7 on the dial, 100,000 watts.
	Now that'll promote an electric bill, I'll tell ya.
	W-R-J-M, Geneva, Alabama, 93.7, 100,000 watts.
	Woo!
	The, uh, GM there is, uh, Jack Mizell and the PD, Susanna Hodges.
	Hello to you both.
	I recommend, as you listen to this program, patience.
	Of course, at first you will not understand it.
	Even after you've been listening for a while, you may not understand it.
	Listen, we just had an X-Class flare in the last few minutes.
	The sun erupted with a massive X-Class flare, so last night we were discussing, of course, the sun on this program, and lo and behold, it may not be a triple A triple-peak for the sunspot cycle.
	It's doing something up there, that's for sure.
	It really let loose the other day.
	We had a picture last night.
	Yesterday, actually.
	And now, an X-class flare today.
	And, of course, space weather.
	It's kind of like Earth weather, and they didn't call for any possibility of that sort.
	They said, well, maybe an isolated M-class flare.
	That's like saying isolated clouds, and then you get, you know, hail.
	Space weather may not be any easier to call than terrestrial weather, but we had a big X-class flare, so the sun is up there doing something serious.
	Upset by an air attack in which scores of villagers died, the Afghan government demanded Tuesday the U.S.
	take, quote, all necessary measures to avoid civilian casualties.
	Unprecedented statement.
	U.S.
	troops who inspected the hospital in Kandahar, where some of the wounded had been taken, came under fire late today as they were returning to the American base just outside the city.
	So, apparent retaliation.
	A Russian pilot ferrying children to Spain for a beach vacation had less than one minute to get out of the way of an Oncoming cargo jet, but the planes rammed into one another over southern Germany after both apparently took the same evasive action at the same moment.
	71 dead.
	Both pilots saw it coming and both pilots decided to take the same evasive maneuver at exactly the same time with predictable results.
	They now have something in our major airliners, of course, that avoids that and It puts the two planes in touch, and it will instruct the pilots which way to turn so that that does not occur.
	Didn't happen in this case.
	Oh, he's finally done it.
	And you've got to give Steve Fawcett credit.
	Tenacity.
	Oh, man, did that guy ever have tenacity.
	that guy ever have tenacity he covered nineteen thousand
	four hundred and twenty eight point six miles on the trip went all the way around
	And I have watched him sort of agonizing with him as he would end up failing time after time after time because of, you know, usually weather, that kind of thing.
	But you've got to give it to the guy.
	Fawcett hung in there and just kept on doing it.
	And did.
	And that's usually how it gets done.
	The stock market.
	Hard to watch.
	The Dow down another 102 points.
	The Nasdaq leading the way, falling 46 points percentage-wise.
	Not good.
	Not good at all.
	The Dow closing 7 points above 9,000.
	The Nasdaq falling almost 46 points, actually, to 1,357.
	1,357!
	Holy mackerel!
	in the nasdaq falling almost forty six point actually to thirteen fifty seven
	thirteen fifty seven holy mackerel
	thirteen fifty seven from a high above
	five thousand to thirteen
	fifty seven uh... turning a lot of millionaires into billionaires in the millionaires for sure and millionaires
	into i don't know what
	Occasionally on this program, we get stories that you just never hear the end of.
	One of those is the bouncer story in England.
	Remember that?
	Well, I still don't have any answer for you.
	Try as I might.
	Reach out as I might.
	This story dead ends, you know?
	Found dead, bloodless, remember?
	Really weird, weird stuff.
	Oh, follow-up.
	Why do we get no... Well, I've got one follow-up for you here.
	The story last week, I think, from Buenos Aires, Argentina, on the mysterious cattle mutilations may not be so mysterious.
	Recent mutilations of cattle and horses in the Argentinian countryside were the work of, get this folks, rodents.
	According to scientists on Monday, not ritualistic slayings by extraterrestrials.
	Why did they word it that way?
	Or vampires, as some farmers had feared.
	Why would the extraterrestrials do ritualistic slayings?
	I don't think they meant to say that.
	The ritualistic slayings would be by, I don't know, Satanists or something like that.
	The ETs, who knows why they do it, but it's probably not a ritual.
	They don't need to come light years to get to Earth and have a ritual with one of our cows and if they do well then we probably don't want to meet them.
	Argentina's National Food and Animal Health Inspection Service, CENSA, sent its own ex-bioscientist to remote plains to look into the deaths of farm animals found mutilated and drained of blood.
	Farmers claim to have seen bright lights and UFOs in the area where the deaths occurred but Since a... I guess it is... Officials said the dozens of livestock whose genitals, tongues, and other organs appeared to have been removed with surgical precision were victims of rodents, foxes, or other animals.
	That farm animals likely died from common infections and wild animals later mutilated the corpses.
	Quote, we see these as natural deaths and There is clear evidence of the presence of rodents and birds, which led us to our conclusions.
	The strange circumstances surrounding the deaths won horses who've had a circle drawn into it.
	Some animals were surrounded by charred grass, and still... Now you've got to wonder, what am I reading here?
	It's from Reuters News.
	I just... I don't know about you, but I have a hard time Squaring the initial report of surgical precision, removal of genitals and genital areas, reproductive organs, that sort of thing, with surgical precision.
	How do you square that with, what do they say, rats?
	Rats wouldn't remove anything with surgical precision, would they?
	So, you know, I wonder what we've got here from Reuters.
	Is this the real McCoy or is this in fact a cover story?
	I have no way of knowing.
	No way of knowing.
	So here is at least an answer.
	I'm not telling you it's a true answer because I have no way of knowing.
	I just read them as they come in.
	The bouncer in England?
	Don't know a thing about that.
	Certainly would love to.
	What I really want to talk to you about is coming up in just a moment.
	Could it be that the Vatican Has had a time machine for a while now?
	Coming up.
	Take Coast to Coast AM with you anywhere on your mobile phone.
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	Plus, you can browse all the great photos, videos, and news stories.
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	Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up today.
	Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	Well, there is something pretty unusual happening here in Little Pahrump, Nevada on the 4th of July.
	We are having, in Pahrump, at Patrick Park at 9.15 in the evening Pacific Time, the biggest fireworks display in the state of Nevada, they tell us.
	The biggest, now.
	We're really looking forward to that.
	Our station is going to cover it here, and if you're in arm's reach of Pahrump, Nevada, you might come see it.
	If it's all true, I guess it's going to be really incredible.
	They've got these big 16-inch shells.
	I mean, those are big mothers.
	And this is going to be, there are going to be, I can't give away a lot of secrets, but it's just going to be one monstrous display.
	And as I said yesterday, here you don't ask, you know, in Nye County, you don't ask where they came from.
	All these giant fireworks.
	You just relax and enjoy the show.
	This is really the Old West here still, you know.
	Somehow, anyway, they got them.
	But I'm not asking.
	Anyway, it should be fun.
	Fourth of July here.
	Little Pahrump, Nevada.
	The desert.
	Now, here's a story that if you wish to check it out, it is on my website right now under What's New.
	And you know me and time travel, right?
	Anything involving time travel, Immediately grabs my gut and twists me like, uh, like a rag.
	And I, you know, I'm just really, really, really fascinated by time travel.
	And the, uh, the headline reads, uh, Boca Raton, Florida.
	The headline, Boca Raton by the Wireless Flash.
	Boca Raton, I used to live in Boca Raton.
	Went to Delray Beach High School.
	Anyway, listen to this.
	Boca Raton, Florida.
	The Vatican was accused of hiding the records of priests who've been abusing kids.
	Now it is being accused of hiding a time machine.
	The time machine in question is called a chronovisor.
	That's C-H-R-O-N-O-V-I-S-O-R, chronovisor.
	And was built in the 1950s by a Benedictine monk named Father Pellegrino Ernetti.
	No photographs of the Chronovisor exist, but paranormal journalist John Chambers says Ernetti reportedly used the, this is in quotes, way back machine to film Christ's crucifixion for Vatican officials.
	Ernetti died in 1994 without revealing the secret of the Chronovisor, but Chambers says that evidence is mounting that the Catholic Church He's hiding a working model from the rest of the world, supposedly to keep it from getting into evil hands.
	Evil hands!
	Sounds crazy, the story goes on.
	Maybe.
	But there may be something to it.
	Chambers says, a Jesuit priest named Father Francios Brunet, I guess it would be, believes the chronovisor must exist, because in the priest's words, Ernetti wouldn't lie about such things.
	Now, as you might well imagine, I have instructed my network, though it's going to be very difficult, to try and get somebody on this story.
	Maybe... maybe this John Chambers would be a person.
	Maybe one of the other... this Jesuit priest might be the way to go.
	I don't know.
	But let's think about this a little bit, shall we?
	This time machine was invented, as is being suggested here, and the person inventing this time machine was, and you can imagine it could be anybody worldwide, it could be somebody in Italy for all we know, right?
	It could be a good Catholic, and there's lots of Catholics out there, so this Catholic not understanding the spiritual uh... possible implications of such a device if he didn't go to the government i mean put yourself in the position of somebody who's invented something of this magnitude just think about it a little bit invented a time machine uh... and you wanted it to be in somebody's hands for some good reason but what would you do with it would you give it to our government would you walk into some government agency and say listen guys
	I know you're busy with terrorism and everything that's going on in the world today, but you know, I've invented a time machine.
	Why not do that?
	Would you go to your church?
	Well, you sure might.
	After you have either been laughed out of the FBI or CIA's office, you might then turn to the church.
	And you've got to imagine it possible that the The church would somehow take this person seriously, and that word would go straight up the ladder to the Vatican.
	That a real time machine is in our hands.
	And then you've got to wonder, well then, well let's see, what would the Vatican do with a time machine?
	Hmm.
	Good chance they'd want to go back and get proof of the crucifixion of Christ.
	Yeah, that might be number one on their list, huh?
	Go back and film the crucifixion.
	Might really be number one on their list.
	But then, would they hide it?
	Would they hide the fact that they had that?
	Hmm.
	Ah, you bet they might hide it.
	Sure they might.
	Ah, you could say... I'm sure I suggest, well, why not tell the whole world?
	It would make Catholicism go through the roof.
	It would...
	But who knows what's really on the film, right?
	Aside from the crucifixion of Christ.
	Maybe they saw things that are not totally in line with the way we understand the crucifixion took place.
	Maybe a million different things.
	But I thought this a very interesting story, just from all kinds of points of view.
	And we've got a half hour of open lines coming up.
	You may want to comment on it.
	I'm going to try and follow up on this story.
	I can't make any promises, because who knows?
	But to John Chambers, if you're out there, I'd like to talk to you.
	Chambers is a paranormal journalist, actually, not an investigator.
	He's a journalist.
	This other witness, a Jesuit, a priest, who says that he does believe this exists because, in his words, the gentleman, the priest now, passed on wouldn't lie.
	So, it gives a person a lot to think about.
	...news be kept secret by the Catholic Church.
	Well, let's see now, does the Catholic Church keep other stuff secret?
	Oh, yes!
	I am told that there are There are tunnels beneath the Vatican with secrets that have been around longer than probably we can trace our relatives back.
	Lots and lots of secrets.
	That's why they call it the Third Secret of Tarama, right?
	Because it was a secret!
	So the Catholic Church has secrets, and if they had a time machine, would they keep that secret?
	I suspect probably so.
	As usual, it drove me nuts.
	If you want to see the story yourself, it's there, just above the picture of my upgraded RV antenna.
	What an antenna.
	Unbelievable antenna.
	That was part of what I did on my vacation, was to build that antenna.
	And for your information, those protrusions that hold the antenna are made out of half-inch steel.
	Half-inch steel.
	A lot of people called up and thought they were plastic or something.
	No, no, no, no.
	You've got to be able to use that going down the road at 60, 70 miles an hour or so.
	And so, you know, you can't build it out of flimsy material, so...
	Somebody wrote and said, well, is it legal?
	Yes, 13 feet 5 inches is where it is, and above ground, actually, and that's about an inch below the lowest overpass in the U.S.
	They say, will I have to be careful?
	Yes, I will.
	But it's still, it's an unbelievable impact.
	On a 75 meter band, I'm telling you hams out there, this thing screams.
	With 100 watts, it screams.
	It's like a base station.
	People have said, well, it looks a lot like a clothesline to me.
	I suppose it does.
	But in terms of radiation, oh my God, it's a killer.
	It really is a killer.
	It's kind of my own design and a couple of others who helped.
	And it's just a killer antenna.
	A time machine at the Vatican?
	That's really something to think about, isn't it?
	You know they'd go back and look at the crucifixion and film it even, right?
	If they did.
	Think of what it means.
	It means you can take a camera back in time and then you can bring it back here and sit down and watch it on the VCR.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Premiere Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
	All my possibilities, I was so hard to see.
	In the ground.
	In the ground.
	In the sky.
	In the hazy shade of winter.
	In a salvation omni-plan.
	Ground by two sides, from the fields that arise and what you've got planned.
	Carry it up in your hand.
	Look around.
	See the ground and the sky.
	It's a hazy state of winter.
	Hang on to your hopes, my friend.
	That's an easy thing to say, but your hopes should pass away.
	I'll play pretend that you can be anything.
	.
	Once upon a time Once when you were mine
	I remember your smile Reflected in your eyes
	I wonder where you are I wonder if you think about me
	Once upon a time In your wildest dreams
	.
	Once the world was new Our bodies felt the morning dew
	That means a brand new day We couldn't tear ourselves away
	I wonder if you can I wonder if you still remember
	Once upon a time You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 2nd, 2002 on Premier Networks.
	Let me tell you something.
	I think a lot of people, maybe even me included, if they actually did have a time machine, they could be selective about it and they could actually go back and film something.
	Even I might pick that exact thing to go back first and verify.
	Even I might do that.
	I had the usual atheist on the line that I always have.
	You know, he's going to be down a mile a minute for something like this, right?
	And of course, his comments were as predicted, or could be easily predicted, why they don't have a time machine, because there never was true fiction, because there never was Christ, because old things lie.
	Right?
	So even he, even our atheist friend up there in the Northeast, he might be tempted to go back first and see if He should revise his views in any way.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 2nd, 2002 on Premier Networks.
	Alright, into the night.
	Open lines right up until the top of the hour.
	By the way, at the top of the hour tonight, we're going to have Candace Long.
	She was an FBI agent, retired now.
	Incidentally, during the time between now and the top of the hour, since you're going to go to a website anyway, and probably look at this Time Machine story, the Vatican Time Machine story, you might check out tonight's guest, and then take a look at my guest coming up tonight.
	You know, I interviewed Candace one time previously, and I had never seen her photograph.
	Somebody tonight, prior to the interview, sent me the photograph of Candace.
	Oh my goodness.
	Clarice, big time.
	Clarice, look at her.
	Aye yi yi.
	What a photograph.
	That'll be in the next hour.
	So we're going to plunge into open lines right now.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air, top of the morning.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	I can't believe I finally got through.
	I've been trying for two years.
	Well, believe it, sir.
	My name's Jeff.
	I'm calling from Ferguson, Missouri, listening on KTRS.
	Yes, sir.
	I do believe that the Vatican does have a time machine.
	And I also believe that our government is working on a project.
	It would be foolish not to.
	I'm getting some fast blasts from around the country on the computer, and of course, everybody has gone Absolutely berserk.
	And I've got a, here's one from a priest who says the Vatican absolutely, even a priest, would not reveal the presence or the possession of anything like this, of any sort of time machine.
	He's absolutely not.
	It would be a secret.
	And I'd like to make one other quick comment.
	Yes.
	I emailed you a question when you were doing those questions.
	What would you do if you were the devil and so forth and so on?
	What would you do if what?
	I mean, you know when you have those questions, when you're saying, what would you do if you were the devil?
	Did I ask that?
	If I didn't, it sounds like an interesting question.
	What would you do if you were the devil, anyway?
	I'm not sure, but I sent you a question, would you go back in time and change the events of 9-11?
	Would you go back a week and stop it?
	Okay, thank you.
	I don't know, I wouldn't know how to respond to that.
	My response would be, we only have conjecture about the nature of time.
	Right?
	We have Dr. Kaku, we have others of great scientific repute who comment on the possibility of time travel, and nobody's really absolutely sure what the consequences would be of changing an event.
	There are theories about it, but remember, it's theoretical physics.
	The key part there is theory.
	Not fact yet, it's theoretical.
	So it could well be that you would set off a chain of events, in changing an event of that magnitude, that would end the world as we know it, or create a new universe, or, you know, who knows?
	Who knows?
	But you would have to consider it.
	Because so far, that's all we know about what would happen if you did change something.
	Filming something, that's a little different, I suspect.
	Although, you could also argue that even the filming of that, were it to become general knowledge, read here, another reason for keeping it secret, folks, become general knowledge would indeed influence the entire timeline, and that something awful would happen.
	It may well be that we are not supposed to know or have videotape of the crucifixion at all, right?
	But would the Vatican at high levels do it and then keep it secret?
	Huh.
	Oh, probably, huh?
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello?
	Hello!
	Hey, how you doing, Art?
	Doing alright, sir.
	Where are you?
	Uh, I'm in Oroville, California.
	Oroville, California.
	Yes, sir.
	Okay, anyway, um...
	I just wanted to tell you some things about the time machine.
	Yes?
	Well, this is kind of similar, but what do you think about this?
	Because a guy I knew, he told me about this.
	This is what he thinks, but it kind of makes sense to me.
	Anyway, I heard if you travel in space, you know, and if you just keep going and going, you would end up back in the beginning of time.
	You would end up in the beginning of time?
	Well, the others...
	There is that possibility, yes.
	If you could travel fast enough, long enough, I suppose that could occur.
	Yeah, that'd be kind of cool.
	I wish I could do that.
	Well, I don't know how cool it would be to end up back at the moment, say, or near the moment of creation.
	The Big Bang.
	Little things smaller than a quirk becoming all it is.
	That would be a very violent time.
	But also it would be interesting viewing, wouldn't it?
	Oh, here's another enigma for you.
	As you know, one man who created the time machine named Madman Markham, I dubbed him that, he disappeared years ago now.
	Madman, gone.
	Tonight I report to you the disappearance of another guest we've had, a very serious guest with regard to time.
	Not the total disappearance, but we can't find him.
	Dr. David Anderson.
	Who did two or maybe three programs on his experiments with time travel.
	Guess what, folks?
	He's gone.
	You know, the network had cell connections, landline connections, websites, all kinds of information on this man, who was doing the most serious work I'd ever heard on time travel.
	We can't find him.
	Now, I'm not saying Anything beyond that, I'm not suggesting anything beyond that, but I am speculating a little bit, of course.
	I mean, here we have the second, the second person who's appeared a number of times on this program, because Madman did as well.
	Simply missing.
	Gone.
	Gone.
	Now, what does that suggest to you?
	At least one possibility it has to be considered, of course, is They set their date and went back.
	Maybe that suggests you don't come back.
	Suggests a lot of things, I don't know, but I thought I'd drop that on you.
	The most recent scientific guest we've had on non-travel, Dr. David Anderson, is gone.
	So all we can discover right now, gone.
	Make of it what you will, I'm simply reporting to you the facts as they are relayed to me by the network.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey, Art.
	Hey.
	Time travel is a lot of fun.
	You know, the Interdimensionals are picking up these guys and, you know, taking them off the planet.
	Oh, you think so, huh?
	National Security, you know that's the first thing, right?
	Well... Anyway, I called just for breaking information that California, I called friends in a few other states here in the United States, And they stopped spraying us. So Camp Spray's chemtrail
	stopped about three months ago here in California.
	I got real nervous going, oh my God, it's been going on for years.
	They just stopped three months ago. And I started to talk to my friends.
	What's going on here? Yeah, they stopped here, too.
	I'm getting the same words, sir, by email.
	That's right.
	I want you seriously to contact Damespot, Ed Dames.
	He's going to be able to tell you what's going on.
	Contact him.
	I can't really go any further.
	No, because Ed Dames, I've asked him 10,000 times about chemtrails, and that's the one subject that he will not talk about.
	He just won't talk about it.
	He said, for security reasons, I will not talk about chemtrails.
	So Ed Dames isn't going to do me any good.
	I think he may say a little bit after what I say.
	Right now in California, smog has come back.
	This stuff was cleaning the air.
	What it's supposed to do, it's aluminum bromide.
	It cleans up bacteriums and stuff out of the air.
	And the same thing, it cleans the smog out of the air as well.
	So you have clean air.
	Well, that's theoretical.
	That's theoretical.
	That's right.
	But the scientific aspect is it kills microbes and stuff.
	But what happens right now is they stop spraying us for about three months now.
	And now what I see is dead birds on rooftops and all over the place.
	And now the news is saying, um, West Nile virus warning.
	Get your animal shots at West Nile now.
	They've been spraying us and now we have that West Nile virus.
	In California?
	That's right.
	And I'm going around with a video camera and I'm going around taking pictures on rooftops and in streets.
	Birds are sick and cars are hitting them.
	It's horrible.
	It's not like they're all over the place, but I drive around quite often.
	I've seen a lot of dead birds.
	And where exactly are you in California again?
	Right now I'm in L.A.
	and I've driven to Oceanside.
	I've spent a day out at Oceanside.
	I've seen a couple of dead birds on rooftops.
	I've seen some on the highways.
	And they're telling people to get their horses shot because of this.
	And I'm thinking a correlation between them not spraying, you know, those chem sprays and this virus has now come out.
	Well, okay, they may be.
	Thank you very much.
	Two separate stories.
	But I appreciate your reporting to us.
	Anyway, I don't know that I would connect the apparent cessation of the chemtrail activity with the death of the birds.
	That might be a bit of a reach.
	In fact, both.
	I want to know about the death of the birds.
	He mentioned Oceanside and other areas in Southern California.
	He said he was in L.A.
	now.
	So, if anybody else out there is confirming those stories, I'd like to obviously follow up on it.
	The first part he said certainly is accurate.
	I've received a lot of information indicating That chemtrail activity seems to have either lessened or stopped.
	So it's something I'm monitoring very carefully.
	Thank you.
	Wildcard line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello there.
	Going once.
	Going twice.
	Gone.
	East of the Rockies.
	You're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yeah, this is Jerry.
	I'm from Lake City, Florida.
	Okay.
	What's up?
	Yeah, I was wondering if the time machine thing... Yes.
	Uh, have you ever watched a show called Time Cop?
	No, I have not.
	Well, you went back in time, and they say that if you go back to a time when you were still alive, in other words, you go back and you see yourself, they say that the same matter cannot occupy the same space.
	That's one of the possibilities this gentleman is mentioning.
	That if you were to go back and meet yourself, that you could not occupy the same space.
	You would break some cosmic law of the universe.
	You and you would be together like two elements that don't mix.
	Kaboom!
	You would flake out.
	There's an awful lot of things that could happen if time travel really is possible.
	This Vatican story is absolutely fascinating.
	Absolutely fascinating.
	You'll find it as the first item under What's New on my website right now.
	Welcome to the Rockies.
	You're on the air.
	Good morning.
	This is Art in Winnemucca.
	Art in Winnemucca.
	How are you doing?
	Good.
	There's two camps of thought on the question of ghosts.
	This relates to time travel.
	Fundamental Bible-believing Christians say that ghosts Or communication with the departed is impossible because, according to the words of Christ, everybody's dead until a future day of resurrection.
	Yeah, and so they would say those are demons.
	Well, I won't get into that aspect of it.
	Well, that's what they would say.
	I mean, they don't brush it off entirely.
	They say you're just mistaking what you're seeing and they're demons.
	But then there's other people who have, you know, including my mother, have had realistic experiences where they seem to communicate with So I've got a theory to bring the two camps together.
	Let's hear it.
	My theory is, the Bible is right, people who die are unconscious until a future day of resurrection.
	But then those that make it after the resurrection, in the millennium, will find that time travel to the past will be possible at that time.
	Um, like my mom who saw her uncle warn her of a fire in the garage, he went on to what is still our future, and after the resurrection, uh, went back in time to warn her.
	So it wasn't really a ghost, it was the resurrected guy traveling back in time.
	Yeah, I've got the picture, and I thank you for the call.
	Sure.
	Could be.
	We do not understand the nature of time travel because, of course, we don't understand time travel, period.
	We can talk about it, we can visualize it, but we can't really know about it because we don't understand the laws of time travel.
	I've had a number of people explain to me what their theories would be, and there are some whoppers out there, that's for sure, but nobody really knows.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Morning, Art.
	Yes.
	Good to have you back.
	Thank you.
	I wanted to make a comment about last Thursday night's show.
	George had Maurice on?
	Yes.
	Did you hear the show?
	No, sir.
	Oh, this guy explained the Mayans in a way everybody could understand.
	The only thing I want to know about the Mayans is whether their calendar is accurate.
	It means that it all ends at 2012.
	Right.
	That's all I really want to know.
	What did he have to say about that?
	Well, he thinks it is.
	And that everything just stops at 2012 because time ends?
	Not everybody.
	No, not everybody perishes.
	No.
	He didn't say that.
	Well, if time effectively ends, everybody would mostly perish.
	In the physical, anyway.
	That's very interesting.
	That's all I really wanted to know about the Mayans.
	If their calendar has significance, if 2012 really is it, why would they stop at 2012?
	Well, I think I guess they could have figured, well, we're looking far enough ahead, we don't have to go out beyond this.
	Maybe it was as simple as that, you know.
	Either that or it ends, because it ends, if you follow me.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	I'm in Honolulu listening on AMA30KHVH.
	Ah, the monster in Honolulu.
	Yes, sir!
	All right, what I'd like to do, if it's okay, is I want to offer a short commentary on a particular alien contact case.
	A healing contact case?
	Alien contact case.
	Alien contact case.
	Is this a first person?
	You've had alien contact?
	No, no.
	I just had some ideas about...
	Yeah, we don't have a lot of time, so we're right at the end of the hour here, so fire away.
	Basically, the contact that he had with the Verdants, I think that the Verdants made a
	mistake with the people they originally selected to represent us.
	The ambassadors, you mean?
	Yeah, yeah.
	The way I look at it, someone who is a successful product of a collapsing civilization is kind
	of like a Tyrannosaurus in the dinosaur age.
	I was thinking what they really ought to do is collect and assemble our accomplished spiritual adepts from around the planet on their spaceship.
	What I'm thinking is, I've got an idea that it might be possible for a team of those guys to maybe activate a healing of world karma.
	I mean, I know it's pretty off the wall, but what I'm thinking is that... I know, but you know, it would be the spiritualists that they'd be gathering on the spaceship, and then we'd be right back in the same old trouble we're always in, because nobody ever believes the spiritualists.
	Why not simply gather I don't know.
	All the congressmen, all the senators, the vice president, even the president, which would upset everybody because they'd both be gone at once, and leaders of other countries as well, and take them on board the spaceship, then you'd see some action, sir.
	But you know, if it's a spiritualist that are gathered and then have to come back and preach the word, and get the minds to concentrate on some great world healing, if that would be the object, they wouldn't have a whole lot of success.
	I mean, you get Bush and Cheney up there, and now you're talking.
	You've got the Russian leaders, the Chinese leaders up there.
	Now you're talking.
	I think.
	They're the policy makers.
	They don't much listen to the spiritual people in our society, do they?
	They kind of blow them off, so... Yeah, I'll get the politicians up there.
	It'll be kind of fun and, in my opinion, kind of interesting.
	I had to hear all their stories when they got back anyway.
	Alright, coming up, we're going to move into the world of the FBI, and the world of the FBI since 9-11, believe me, is a very changed place.
	The trip back in time continues, with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	More, somewhere in time, coming up.
	Words for you are lies.
	Darling, it's my wildest dreams.
	I never thought I'd go.
	I never thought I'd go But it's time to
	But it's time to...
	He came from somewhere back in her home ago A shabby, bad, and a fool girl she tried hard to recreate
	You came from somewhere, back in a long ago.
	What had yet to be created Once in her life, she musters a smile
	For his nostalgic tear Never coming near what he wanted to say
	Only to realize It never really was
	She had a place in his life He never made her day in court
	As she rises to her apology Anybody else would surely know
	He's watching her go But what a fool to believe
	He's seen the world's last kind of power She's risen away
	What she's to be Is always better than nothing
	And nothing at all Keeps under him somewhere back in her home ago
	Where he can still believe there's a place in her life You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time
	Tonight's program originally aired July 2nd, 2002.
	I don't know, it was months ago now, I interviewed Candace DeLong, the next FBI, retired FBI agent.
	And during the course of that interview, I'd never seen Candace DeLong.
	And, uh, tonight I took a look at her photograph, because someone sent it to me before the show, and I got it off the website, by the way, if you want to see her.
	And I went, whoo!
	Look at that picture!
	I didn't realize, when I did the last interview, what a looker she is.
	That picture, that gun, hmm.
	Hurt me, mama.
	Anyway, for 20 years, Candace DeLong was on the front lines of some of the FBI's most memorable and gripping cases.
	Some have called her A real-life Clarice Starling and a female Donnie Brasco.
	She's tailed terrorists, gone undercover as a gangster's mall.
	That must have been interesting.
	Was one of the agents chosen to carry out manhunt for the Unabomber in Montana.
	For the first time, she reveals the dangers and rewards of her career as a field profiler in the FBI, the world's most powerful law enforcement agency.
	Now a lot more powerful, I think.
	Now retired, Agent DeLong offers a day-in-the-life glimpse of her work.
	The old profiling, pioneered by John Douglas and Roy Hazelwood, who trained Agent DeLong, is one of the most fascinating and challenging branches of the FBI.
	She traces the unusual career path that led her to crime fighting, recounts the obstacles she faced as a woman, you can imagine, and as a fledgling agent.
	Now, a lot has happened to her since she last appeared on the program.
	She's become a news commentator to NPR, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, and recently signed an exclusive contract with MSNBC.
	Holy mackerel!
	She comments on FBI matters, crime stories, and terrorism matters.
	It all began with Gary Condit, then expanded after 9-11, of course.
	The movie rights have been sold, and the first screenplay is currently being written for a TV movie of the week.
	Wow!
	The entity that brought it hopes to franchise and make it Two or three TV movies a year.
	Woof!
	She would prefer not to say who bought it just yet.
	However, you know, loose lips sink ships, right?
	So a whole lot has happened to Candace since she was last on this show.
	Tonight she is back and there are lots and lots of really heavy questions to ask her.
	a little uh... a little detail on her life in the fbi and i i've got some
	really spiffy questions uh... i'm sure you do too
	goes to go to a m sure sounds great in the middle of the night
	But you know, you don't have to be nocturnal to enjoy this amazing show.
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	Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	Well, Clarice, welcome back to the past.
	Thank you.
	That is an awful lot to happen to you, Candace, since you were last on the show.
	Yes, it's been quite a year.
	So I guess it's like the world caught on to you, huh?
	Well, you had a lot to do with that.
	Well, thank you.
	I hope so.
	I hope it helped, and apparently something did it.
	So, for those who did not hear our first program, just give everybody sort of the 101 on your life in the FBI.
	Well, I have been a psychiatric nurse for 10 years, And then when I was in my late 20s, I met an FBI agent and he suggested that I try to be one.
	At the time, I didn't even know they took women.
	This was back in the late 70s.
	So I applied and I got in and I spent the next 20 years doing some pretty exciting and interesting things.
	A lot of the movies I've seen about women in the FBI, of course, they do a lot of comedy on that subject.
	The women really have kind of a tough way to go.
	Was that true when you got in?
	In the beginning.
	I would say the first, from 1980 to 1990, there was a lot of, not a lot, but there was a certain amount of funny business.
	And when I first started, there were a number of male agents, both at the FBI Academy and then in Chicago where I was fined.
	That just would not only not work with a woman agent, it wouldn't even take a morning.
	Does it have to do just with the fact, this is going to get real heavy real fast, I can tell, just the fact that you're female, or does it have to do with the fact that there are men who believe that a woman without the same amount of upper body strength, without the same Testosterone driven instincts.
	You can yell at me when you're ready.
	That a woman like that can't keep your back, you know, can't watch your back and so therefore as a partner is more likely to get you killed.
	I'm putting it bluntly.
	I think that's a stereotype that exists among some male law enforcement personnel.
	I've been on arrest With male agents that were not there to back me up.
	Is that right?
	Yeah.
	That door does swing both ways.
	Yeah, well, when you have gone, has it, conversely, the other side, has it pushed you to want to be the first one through the door?
	I like going through the door with someone right next to me.
	As a matter of fact, just thinking of, we had a drug arrest back in Chicago, and we arrest druggies at four in the morning because they're just getting to bed.
	Yeah.
	And three or four of us tried to get through the door at the same time.
	It was kind of a Keystone Cops kind of thing.
	But that was funny with me.
	One thing that you rarely see in law enforcement is for any of the guys to hand the woman the shotgun and say, here, it's your turn.
	Yeah, right.
	You don't see a lot of that.
	and i like to feel more than a second in her hand all right so i want to talk about a lot of contemporary
	things We'll keep coming back to what's happened with your career.
	Sure.
	You know, the United States now, all we've got going on sort of is waiting for the next bomb to go off.
	I mean, it's kind of down to that point.
	We're getting warnings now, of course, about the 4th of July coming up.
	Right.
	Nothing specific, but I heard one report that there was almost as much communication among the terrorists going on right now before the 4th as there was prior to 9-11.
	I've heard a lot of weird stuff.
	I've heard that too.
	Oh, you have?
	Yes.
	You've heard that officially?
	No, I've heard it over the radio.
	As simple as I got it.
	So you don't know that to be true from official sources?
	No.
	How much connection do you still have?
	Well, I still have a lot of friends that are in the Bureau, but I don't have a security clearance anymore, so they can't talk to me about anything classified or even confidential.
	And I certainly wouldn't even ask them.
	I wouldn't want them to get in trouble.
	Yeah, actually, with your being in the media as you are, it would be too tempting, too easy to make a mistake, wouldn't it?
	Right.
	Right.
	And then I'd have a close friend in trouble.
	Can't have that.
	Uh-huh.
	Since 9-11, America has really changed, Kenneth.
	I mean, we're living in a different place.
	Here's an interesting article in the San Francisco Chronicle.
	Long article, but its headline is, FBI checking out Americans' reading habits for the first time since Cold War.
	The FBI is visiting public libraries to keep tabs on the reading habits of people The government considers dangerous.
	The searches of some records kept by libraries and bookstores were authorized in an obscure provision of the USA Patriot Act, quietly approved by Congress six weeks after September 11th.
	So, you know, they're monitoring what people are even reading.
	They're monitoring the Internet.
	They're monitoring telephones.
	You know, it's like we're living in a different place here.
	Well, I can tell you that when I was working on the Unabom case, After Kaczynski had been identified as probably the prime suspect, and I was doing library checks, because he listed four books in his manifesto, and I was trying to get information.
	Actually, I was going from one library to another in Montana, trying to find out if he had checked out any of these four books.
	We were trying to build the affidavit for the search warrant.
	uh... getting enough probable cause to go in and search of cabin or arrest him
	and it would have been very helpful had i been able to find out that yes
	uh... theodore kaczynski checked out this book that book uh...
	the true believer
	uh... couple other things from the library in lincoln that would have been
	nice little building block well that's a good but still can accept that
	intonation with a specific investigation and the investigation of a specific
	individual totally understandable but expanded to a nationwide program
	of monitoring what's getting checked out from the library Well, this is what I was getting at.
	I was unable to find anything out, because one of the things I learned is that for about at least the last 20 years, when you take out a book, The library, it's private information.
	I would have to have a subpoena to find out the library and say, what has Art Bell checked out?
	Really?
	I would need a subpoena and... Really?
	Why is that privileged?
	It is.
	It has been for over 25 years, I think.
	Can you tell me what privilege covers that?
	I mean, I understand doctor, patient, privilege.
	No, it's the Privacy Act.
	The Privacy Act, alright.
	Which covers a lot.
	Alright, well you have the Privacy Act in the left hand, and you have this new Patriot Act in your right hand, and what do you end up with?
	Well, this is interesting.
	What FBI agents are going to find out is the same thing I find out.
	Once somebody returns a book, there's no record of it having been checked out.
	Once you return a book, there's not a file that lists everything Art Bell has checked out for the last ten years.
	Once you return that book in, they only keep files on books that are overdue.
	If your listening audience is concerned about the Bureau finding out what they're reading, keep them from being overdue.
	So there aren't any flags?
	I mean, if somebody was going to a library and they were checking out a lot of books on how to build a bomb, for example, you're telling me there wouldn't be any flag issued as long as they returned the books on time?
	Well, if there is, it's something new, and it would have to be in cooperation with libraries, and that would really surprise me.
	That's what this story sounds like, though.
	Well... Now, how would you... I mean, let's just... What if the story is true?
	If it's true, would that give you pause?
	In other words, I understand we're in a war, and it's going to be hard to know when we've gone Too far, when we've begun to destroy the very things we say we're fighting to protect.
	Right, right.
	You know, what I'm thinking is that, and this is a guesstimate here based on 20 years with the Bureau and having been involved in library projects myself, I'm thinking that the Patriot Act may allow FBI agents To go in and ask the librarian what Art Bell is reading without a subpoena, she can give the information.
	However, I have a feeling that, you know, there may be more to it than that.
	It's just simply not that easy, and like I said, once you return the book, there's no record that you checked it out.
	However, let's say for the sake of argument, I wanted to know who has checked out the Anarchist Cookbook.
	Yeah.
	Or the Turner Diaries, or things that actually promote the kind of thing that we're talking about.
	Or can't.
	Yep.
	I mean, these books were written for people to be instructed on how to make money.
	I interviewed the author of the Turner Diaries.
	That was incredible.
	Oh my God.
	Yes, yes.
	Incredible.
	That's interesting.
	And I don't even know if they could give me a list, but let's say for the sake of argument I go in To a librarian and I say, who's checked out the Turner Diaries and the Anarchist Cookbook in the last year?
	And they hand me a list.
	Right.
	Now, I'm not going to go open up an investigation on all those people, but what I am going to do, I'm going to take that list back to the office and I'm going to start running names through a computer and see if I get the same name turns up somewhere else.
	For example, maybe I might find out that not only did Art Bell check out the Anarchist Cookbook as well as the Turner Diaries, My computer search tells me that Art Bell was seen at an underground meeting for the We Want to Blow Up America group two months ago.
	So now I have something else that has piqued my interest in Art Bell.
	And then we keep checking and checking.
	A tremendous amount of people I'm thinking, I'm guessing, check out books like this just because they're curious and they would never build a bomb.
	Here's something to think about.
	What if you don't have to go to the library to look at their records at all?
	What if, in the FBI office, you can access one gigantic database that is tied to libraries all over the place that will tell you exactly what Art Bell or anybody else checked out?
	Art, you're never going to see that.
	You don't think so, huh?
	There would have to be another 9-11 before anything like that would even be considered.
	And, as a result of the investigation, it would have to Really show that the event could have been prevented if the FBI had been able to see who was reading what.
	I just don't think you can see that.
	Having said that, Candace, you know what Echelon is, right?
	Echelon listens to telephone conversations, has computers listening to conversations, looking for keywords, kicking out interesting conversations for People to listen to.
	Now, I know they're not supposed to listen domestically, but if Great Britain uses Echelon and acts on a request of the U.S.
	to listen to a U.S.
	citizen, same effect.
	Janice, you know U.S.
	citizens' telephone calls are being monitored.
	If they'll monitor our calls, why not our library books?
	Well, hmm.
	Hmm.
	I think it might be, for me at this point, it's a quantum leap.
	And I say that only because I know how protective librarians are of that information.
	I know that nobody would talk to me without a subpoena.
	I know that.
	I can't imagine that the Privacy Act, I think you'd have to get rid of it.
	A lot of people are worried.
	It's on the way out.
	And I'm not saying that some of the measures that are being taken are not justified.
	I'm just sort of wondering when we drift, you know, if everybody's thinking about when we drift over that line or if in the frenzy to catch these jerks that want to kill us, we just, you know, I mean, we always seem to Move a bit over the line as we did with internment with the Japanese in the Second World War.
	I mean, for example, we can hold somebody now, or the FBI can hold somebody now, can't they?
	Without any sort of charge, if they think they're involved in terrorism of one sort or another, or they suspect they have information about people who are involved in terrorism, you could be held with normal rights more or less suspended, couldn't you?
	Well, Ashcroft wanted that in the Patriot Act.
	He didn't get it.
	What he got was we can only hold people for, it used to be 24 hours without charging them.
	Now it's seven days.
	You have to charge them.
	However, there have been a lot of people who were arrested on INS violations after 9-11, still are.
	They just arrested somebody in Florida last week on an INS violation whom they believe was Was also involved in this dirty bomb plot.
	That's right.
	Well, if it's INS related, then you can hold them as long as you want, right?
	You have to charge them, but they can be held, yes.
	Pretty much.
	Yes.
	They have to be charged, but they can be held.
	And it's my understanding that an awful lot of people that have been arrested since 9-11 on INS violations, although they have been charged, they have not, here we are eight months later, have not had due process.
	Yeah, that's my understanding, too.
	Okay, hold on, Candace.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	Candace DeLong, a retired FBI agent, is my guest, and that's exactly what we're talking about, is the FBI.
	Of course, what's happening in America today?
	you're listening to our bills somewhere in time tonight featuring coast-to-coast a m from july second two
	thousand two on premier networks
	and he
	the the
	the through the job
	but the white uh...
	the the
	the you're listening to our bills somewhere in time
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from July 2nd, 2002, on Premier Networks.
	Good morning, I'm Art Bell.
	Candace DeLong, retired FBI, is here.
	And it's just going to get nothing but heavier, so stay right where you are.
	Now we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	And we'll see you in a bit.
	you you
	Back now to Candace DeLong, and I think we all know, Candace, that with regard to 9-11 now, I've read Colleen Raleigh's letter to the director.
	I guess it was, there's no other way to paint this other than a screw-up.
	I mean, there was information prior to 9-11.
	There was pretty serious information.
	So, did anybody drop the ball at the ICIA NSA?
	Who Missed?
	Who screwed up?
	Well, it looks to me like all three agencies did.
	Even Director Mueller admitted, I believe in the congressional hearings, that it appeared not only did the FBI drop the ball, but that possibly if the overused expression coming up had been connected, perhaps 9-11 might have been prevented.
	Then we find out a couple weeks after the Colleen Raleigh memo that the CIA was watching two of the terrorists extensively and knew they were al-Qaeda.
	Didn't tell us.
	And then NSA comes up, I think it was just a couple of weeks ago, some intercept over here the day before, September 10th, that should have been a tip-off that something was amiss.
	And I must say, are not just those agencies, but I do recall seeing Condoleezza Rice on TV when she was taking the heat for the White House and when the finger was being pointed at the White House.
	Yes.
	And she admitted, and so did President Bush, that they were aware that there might be some problems with some airplanes being hijacked, but they had no information that they would be thrown flown into buildings, and so my question is that I'm asking the television set as I'm watching them, well, then why didn't we have our airports on higher alert than they were?
	If we, if you thought there were going to be planes hijacked, I mean, 11 of the 19 suicide pilots were stopped and questioned extensively before they got on the planes that morning because their papers were not in order.
	And yet they were still on the plane.
	I think if we'd been on high alert, they wouldn't have gotten on those planes.
	So you don't think that could happen again, likely, would it happen again today?
	Well... Or do you?
	I think it could.
	I think a report just came out yesterday or today in the people that check airport security in two major airports, L.A.
	and another major one, Forty percent of the time they got through with their little phony guns and bombs.
	Yeah, that's what I heard.
	Actually, Candace, what I heard is that the security's been tightened in the East Coast, on the East Coast, Midwest, but that the West, which is particularly open and vulnerable right now, particularly L.A., has just not seen the replacement of personnel that the other areas of the country haven't.
	Did you hear anything about that?
	No, I didn't hear that.
	And I did quite a bit of traveling after 9-11.
	I go all over the country talking on college campuses.
	And I was in some of the airports that were high on the list yesterday for being problematic.
	Cincinnati comes to mind.
	And I went shortly after 9-11.
	I didn't realize I had a letter opener in my purse the size of a dinner knife.
	And it went through three or four major airports after 9-11 without being detected.
	It was way down at the bottom of my purse.
	Well, that wouldn't matter.
	It would be a metallic object.
	So when it passes through the, you know, the machine, I mean, that would show up as a, looking like a knife almost.
	And yet it didn't.
	I was never, I wasn't questioned.
	The thing is, Art, um, I think it's more equally important that people not get on planes with guns is that those pilots follow protocol and do not come out of that cockpit.
	That's the problem.
	They're getting the pilot out of that cockpit.
	They've got to stay in there, no matter what's going on in the back of the plane.
	Well, since you're last on, Candace, we've been getting, you know, the threats have turned around from, I mean, it doesn't have to be airplanes.
	You know, they're talking about dirty bombs now.
	Oh, yes.
	You know, I'd be interested in what you think America's future is going to be.
	In other words, If we've got to put up with this constant threat, whether it's dirty bombs, real atomic bombs, biological dispersals that would be suicidal even for those who let it all loose, but you know, that's what they do, they kill themselves.
	Right.
	Or whatever else it is.
	I mean, if that is to be our future, Candace, America's... I don't know.
	I don't know how we're going to come through this, and I think not too well, And if something else of as large a proportion as 9-11 occurs, oh man, all bets are off.
	I mean, our economy is tanking right now, Candace.
	I agree.
	I have to tell you that I'm surprised that there have been no more attacks.
	I really thought that we were going to start seeing them after the war started.
	There hasn't been anything.
	I know a few things have been stopped.
	It shook me to the The depths of my being when the Dirty Bomb suspect turned out to be a Chicago gangbanger who got religion in prison and now was involved with Al-Qaeda and looking into, supposedly, allegedly, detonating a dirty bomb in America.
	I mean, we think our enemy is this guy that lives in caves 10,000 miles away, and we can't understand him.
	And here it is, the Chicago, born and raised in Chicago, with a chip on his shoulder.
	Terrifying.
	Absolutely terrifying.
	Yeah.
	Al-Qaeda's claiming now that 98% of their leadership and their organization remains intact.
	And this may be way out of your area, but there's a lot of criticism that our military, for example, had about 1,100 Al-Qaeda trapped.
	They let them get away.
	Well, I hope that's not true.
	Like you said, that's not my area.
	I hope that's not true, but from what I've heard, it very well might be.
	It's also my understanding, looking at a lot of watching TV, as you can imagine, I watch the news a lot, that an awful lot of people that do know that that is their field are saying, we just did not have enough of a ground war in Afghanistan.
	And that perhaps that's why a lot of these people got away.
	I don't know that I would believe Al-Qaeda's statement that 98% of their leadership is intact.
	It could be that they have replaced people that were killed with new, you know, new leaders.
	Well, it's not just Al-Qaeda.
	There's Hamas.
	There's all kinds of organizations out there that really have common goals with Al-Qaeda.
	So, I mean, it's kind of like the war is on.
	I wonder if at some point the United States is going to have to do something really drastic.
	Well, there's one thing that I would like to see.
	I'm going to ruffle some feathers with what I'm about to say.
	It's fine.
	But I've said it before on national news, so I don't have any problem saying it now, and I really believe this.
	I do not understand.
	Okay, we need a moratorium on allowing not only students But other people from what I would call criteria countries in the United States.
	We ought to just stop.
	We are not responsible for educating people from countries who support terrorism or that we know have ties to terrorism or... It's just insane to me.
	We're not responsible.
	We shouldn't be responsible for training people to kill us.
	Yes.
	Thank you.
	Couldn't have said it better.
	And yet, you know, Everyone's afraid of stepping on somebody's toes.
	And, you know, I'm sorry, there probably are lots of decent people from some of these criteria countries that would be deprived of the fine, fine education that they could have received in America if they were not from that country.
	But I'm sorry.
	That's just the way it goes sometimes.
	All right.
	Now, I want to know this.
	I want to know, these memos were out there.
	They were leaked in Phoenix.
	They were leaked, we understand, in Minneapolis.
	Is it the case that people at the special agent level, or even agents in charge, they knew pretty much what was about to come down, or that something really heavy was going to come down, and one can only imagine.
	I mean, the FBI just doesn't leak stuff very often, and so you can only imagine how Ultimately frustrated, whoever it was who leaked this, must have been, you know, in not getting their information heard, in not getting their warnings that they knew about heard, to go to the press.
	I mean, that would be a career-ending kind of decision, right?
	Oh, you betcha.
	Yeah.
	But can you imagine?
	And I don't know how these... I will speculate on how I think these things got leaked.
	Yes.
	But can you imagine how Colleen Rowley and all the Minneapolis agents that were involved in that situation and the Phoenix agents that were involved in that.
	You imagine what was going through their minds and their hearts at 8 a.m.
	on September 11th.
	They're looking at those buildings falling down after those planes are hijacked and they knew now they're looking at, oh my gosh, that's what these people were up to.
	And if headquarters had just listened.
	Maybe we could have stopped it.
	But I mean, to get to the point in that position, to leak it, to be so frustrated with your own bureaucracy, that you leak it to the press, that's like way over the top.
	It's way over the top, but 9-11 was way over the top.
	We've never been attacked before, and 3,000 people died.
	And I think it was just something that was, that these memos got leaked somehow, You know, let me tell you how, the memos might not have been leaked.
	Somebody might have picked up a phone.
	Somebody that knew what happened.
	Somebody, maybe not even an agent, but somebody, a close friend or relative of an agent that knew.
	Could be.
	And picked up a phone and called the Washington Post and made an anonymous... Could be.
	You know, it could have happened like that.
	But then, Colleen Rowley, her letter to Mueller, I don't think That was a leak.
	I think that was deliberately... She gave it to Congress.
	Yeah.
	So, good for her.
	Now, what's going to happen to these people long term?
	These people who are either found to have leaked something, or written memos, or whatever, long term.
	Short term, nothing's going to happen.
	Had too much press, nothing could happen to them.
	Long term, what's going to happen to their careers?
	Well, I think Colleen Rowley's okay.
	I mean, we have Director Mueller testifying to Congress.
	Nothing was going to happen to this woman.
	Negative.
	And probably the same for Kenneth Williams.
	There's two camps of how, in the Bureau, of how people view what happened.
	The agents, for the most part, were very proud and very, very, it's about time response.
	and a lot of the managers were, became very worried.
	My gosh, is this the beginning of the floodgates of hell being open?
	I better watch myself.
	Because it all came down on management.
	I'm sure it did.
	And that's exactly where it belongs.
	And it's been rolling downhill ever since.
	I think the two agents, I think they'll be fine.
	Because of the tremendous, no writing. Publicity, yeah.
	But for those who may have been involved at a lesser level, that didn't get the benefit of great publicity?
	I don't know.
	You know, I would be surprised.
	Normally there would be an investigation into the leak, but I bet in this case there wasn't.
	Because the FBI management was too busy running and answering to Congress.
	Otherwise known as spinning.
	So I really, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that there was no investigation of leaks.
	And by the way, my 20 years in the FBI, I never saw a leak aggressively investigated.
	The FBI always said the leaks come from the Department of Justice, and the Department of Justice always said the leaks came from the FBI.
	Really?
	Yep.
	I never saw anybody reprimanded, punished, or anything for a leak, because they're just not investigated that seriously.
	And I don't think this one would be investigated at all.
	What would the public think to know that the girl was wasting time, money, and agent manpower trying to find out how these memos got leaked when these memos proved that the FBI agents on the street were doing their job?
	It wouldn't look very good for management.
	It might not, but if you recall and just cast your memory back to the Nixon administration, they spent a fairly significant number of taxpayer dollars on Uh, looking at all kinds of things like this, Candace.
	Yeah.
	I don't think that's going to happen here.
	I mean, the Bureau does waste a tremendous amount of money, um, investigating this, that, and the other, uh, that agents do millions and millions of dollars.
	It's, it's outrageous.
	I talk about it in one of the chapters in my book, but I have a feeling on this one, my guess, my gut is telling me they're not going to aggressively investigate how these leaks got out.
	All right.
	Well, uh, What I really want to know, and I think everybody wants to know is, and I don't know if you can render this judgment, but since all of that screw up, and we can talk more about it, but I mean, you know, it's history now.
	Since all of that, is it all fixed?
	Are these agencies now communicating effectively with each other?
	Is whatever was wrong then Right now, so that we can all sleep well at night, knowing that information is being exchanged freely, flowing upwardly as it should, that sort of thing.
	Can we all sleep well at night, or not?
	I don't know.
	I would love to be able to give you a definitive answer.
	As you know, it usually takes something catastrophic for significant change to happen.
	And then after the dust settles, people tend to go right back to doing what they were doing before.
	I think probably things are better if Director Mueller follows through on some of the things that he was suggesting.
	Things have got to be better.
	But there's other things that have to change for things to get better and stay better.
	And they have nothing to do with the things Mueller has put into place the last few weeks.
	Well, for as long as I can remember, between agencies, there's been Traditional, very old pissing contests.
	Big time.
	I mean, if it's our case, it's your case, we're taking the witness, you're taking the witness, pipes over, lead, and all the rest of it.
	I mean, it's really almost too much to believe that all of that psychology is just suddenly gone since 9-11.
	And if it's not gone, then it's not fixed.
	Right.
	I think, like I said, Mueller has put some programs in place, some new programs.
	That isn't going to change what you just touched on.
	Jurisdictional, yeah, jurisdictional disputes.
	I mean, you name it.
	The FBI is no friend.
	Sometimes agents don't talk to each other.
	It's the I've got a secret mentality, I call it.
	It's got to change.
	Then if that hasn't changed, then the whole thing really has not.
	Changed, aside from some proclamation of new action by the director.
	Nothing has really changed.
	So then we can't sleep all that well at night, can we?
	I think there are some things that have to change that Director Mueller might not even be aware of, unless he's been seeing me shoot my mouth off about it on TV at the last part of May.
	When all of this was hitting the proverbial fan.
	And Mueller did not come up through the FBI.
	It's been the prosecutor's seat all of his career.
	There are policies and procedures that management engages in that must stop or must change if you are going to be able to sleep better at night.
	And things like, you're going to be shocked when I tell you three things about FBI management.
	One of them, I'm hanging my hat on that management's the problem.
	If you ask any FBI agent that's been in 20 years or 20 days, in one word, can you sum up what's wrong with the FBI?
	You're going to get a one-word answer.
	Management.
	Why?
	Why has management caused a problem?
	Here's a few things that I've witnessed repeatedly in my 20 years.
	An FBI agent that wants to be a manager, and many of them do, Can throw their hat in the ring to be a supervisor with only three years experience out of the FBI Academy.
	That is like letting a third-year medical student do brain surgery without the attending physician standing there.
	Candace, we're at the top of the hour.
	Hold tight.
	In the military, that's probably the equivalent of getting a brand new First Lieutenant, you know, to take you into a firefight.
	The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	more somewhere in time coming up.
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	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 2nd, 2002 on Premier Networks.
	Music Once again, here's Candice DeLong.
	Candace, we were talking about the sort of middle management type people, and you were saying that somebody three years out of the academy could apply to be in, in fact, perhaps even get into middle management.
	There were three things you said.
	there are three things that i think very much contributed
	the problem of fbi supervisors and managers being
	uh...
	uh...
	incompetent effective
	at the first one is yet They are allowed to put their hat in the ring.
	An agent can put their hat in the ring after three years.
	What this means is a supervisor might only have three or four years experience and he or she is supervising a squad of anywhere from eight to forty people who know much more about what they are doing than a supervisor does.
	Second problem.
	Specialization is not required and it's not always honored.
	What do I mean by that?
	I mentioned I was a nurse for almost a decade.
	I specialized in psychiatry most of my career and I did spend some time in substance abuse.
	After about six or seven years I wanted to be head nurse and I applied for a position in psychiatry when one became available.
	It's the only position, and the hospital was one of the largest private hospitals in the world, in Chicago.
	If there had been an opening in pediatrics for a head nurse, they wouldn't have even taken my application.
	They would have said, Candace, you're a psych nurse.
	You don't know anything about peds.
	Take your application and go away.
	And that's how it is, I think, in most other fields.
	Let's say somebody wants to be an FBI supervisor and there's an opening on a drug desk.
	That's what they call them, a desk.
	Right.
	And that agent applies for it and may get it and they may never have worked a drug case in their life.
	There's a problem.
	Lastly, I saw repeatedly throughout my career, when an FBI manager screws up, not only are
	they not told they must step down from management or be put on probation or something like that,
	they are oftentimes promoted up and out.
	We call it screw up, get up.
	Yeah, other people call it Peter Principal.
	Right, right.
	And I'm sad to say that on at least three occasions I'm aware of, inept or problematic
	supervisors were promoted to up and out of the division and were given a desk in terrorism.
	Now there's two kinds of terrorism desks in the Bureau.
	There's domestic terrorism and international terrorism.
	Three times I saw that happen.
	One time, every field division of the FBI gets an internal inspection every three to four years.
	But we inspect ourselves.
	In one inspection, in one of the divisions, well this is This is the worst thing that can happen.
	May I ask one quick question?
	Does the FBI have the police version of Internal Affairs?
	Mm-hmm.
	They do?
	Okay.
	It's called OPR, Officer Professional Responsibility.
	Okay.
	But they are not the inspectors.
	The inspection staff are managers.
	Supervisors.
	Yeah.
	And they go to a field division and they go over all their paperwork and make sure they've been doing everything right.
	They rarely find anything wrong.
	A bad write-up, the worst thing that can happen to an agent or supervisor is to be found eye and eye, inefficient and ineffective.
	It's the equivalent of being told, not only do you not know how to do your job, you're wasting time and you're ineffective.
	I am aware of a case that this particular supervisor was found to be ineffective and inefficient and he was supervising One of the terrorism deaths before 9-11.
	After that write-up, was he asked to step down?
	Was he moved to a lesser, uh, squad that had less responsibilities?
	No, he remained in that position until, uh, for the next 20 months.
	Until finally, two weeks after 9-11, uh, the boss finally pulled him out of there because he didn't know what was going on.
	Yikes.
	I've seen this a lot.
	That kind of thing has to stop.
	If the people are going to get their money's worth out of the FBI.
	What's happened to the Bureau since Jay Edgar?
	I mean, that it gets to the point you're describing.
	Well, it was explained to me once by a colleague of mine who's a retired supervisor, and he joined the Bureau long before I did.
	He actually put himself through college, so he was working as a clerk before he became an agent.
	And basically what his explanation is, is that after The Vietnam War vets started coming back to America and they wanted government jobs and a lot of them came on with the FBI and they wanted to, these are former military men, and they wanted to get to the top quickly.
	So they devised this thing called the career path and it's a path that one took to get to the top in 20 years.
	There's another thing, if I was going to say, and I gave you three things I think are wrong, This feeds into the fourth thing, this method to get to the top.
	Every two years, you get promoted to a higher level and more responsibility, and it's to another division or back and forth to headquarters and whatnot.
	Two years, 24 months, is not long enough to get your feet wet, and then you're pulled out of there to get to another promotion.
	And if you don't, then it's like being passed over in the military.
	You're probably dead meat.
	Right, right.
	If you stay five years in one place, that's a kiss of death.
	And so unfortunately there's a lot of people go into management that did not have very much time on the street since Hoover died.
	Now when Hoover, I'm told, I never worked under Hoover, he passed away eight years before I became an agent, but I'm told by the old timers, the Hooverites we call them, that no one would even be considered to be a supervisor on a squad that didn't have 10 to 15 years experience with that violation, with what that squad handled.
	That's the way it should be.
	Yeah, I understand.
	I just, I wonder how that all came to be.
	I mean, you're saying it was a military influence, you think?
	That's what I'm told.
	It's one explanation that this career path was developed for a method, you know, get these, they call it getting your ticket punched.
	You know, and you've got to have a little bit of foreign counterintelligence in your background.
	You've got to have a little bit of this.
	And so, a lot of FBI management is musical chairs.
	And everybody's scrambling to get in that one chair, and you stay there for 18 to 24 months, and then it's up onto the next chair.
	Now, you mentioned that there's a foreign terrorism office within the FBI desk.
	Well, there's two types of terrorism when I left.
	Two types of terrorism.
	There's domestic terrorism and international terrorism.
	Right.
	Well, my question goes to this.
	We always thought the FBI did not operate offshore.
	Correct.
	You know, that's what the CIA's job is.
	They operate offshore.
	Correct.
	It's supposed to, anyway.
	So, are they holding to that, really?
	Or do we see FBI all over the world now?
	Both.
	First of all, what I mean by international terrorism is, for example, the al-Qaeda threat would be considered international terrorism on our shores.
	Yes, indeed.
	And, yes, we are now all over the world.
	We always had FBI agents working in the embassies of the major foreign cities in the world.
	Paris, Rome, Madrid, Toronto, Moscow.
	But that expanded tenfold when Louis Freeh was the director.
	And the FBI now has offices in most major cities in the world.
	We do a lot of training of personnel from other countries.
	As you probably are aware, we were invited to go over to Bosnia and get involved in investigating the war crimes, digging up mass graves.
	We do things like that, and as we're doing them, we teach the people, the law enforcement from the host country, this is how you do it, this is how you get a fingerprint from a dead body, this is how you do this, this is how you do that.
	We'll teach the world to sing.
	Something like that.
	I think that's a good thing.
	Well, okay.
	I want to ask now about something else.
	I heard a story today that about 200 people are complaining that they're getting sick from irradiated mail in Washington.
	Now, I want to talk a little bit about the anthrax because, you know, there's a big story out there, Candace, right now about the anthrax case and a missing biochemist and and that the uh... the truth about what's going on or who perpetrated this anthrax thing is somehow wrapped up in in national security in some way that we're never going to hear who the hell did this to us.
	Do you hear anything about that?
	No, and that would surprise me.
	Believe me, the FBI wants this guy badly.
	You said this guy?
	And if it turns out to be a woman, I will eat my book on public TV.
	Why'd you save this guy?
	Oh, a few reasons.
	Historically, there has never been a case like this.
	Think of the anthrax letters as little bombs.
	Male bombers, such as Ted Kaczynski, or people that place bombs down.
	There has never been a serial bomber that was a woman.
	That's one thing.
	And we have to look at statistics when you're profiling.
	And so that is one of the reasons right there.
	Also... Why?
	Well, that is the $64,000 question.
	There's an awful lot of types of crimes that are only committed by men.
	Well, those are the questions I'm paid to ask.
	So I really do wonder why.
	I mean, serial killers are almost all exclusively white Anglo-Saxon men.
	Bombers are men.
	Poisoners are men.
	Why?
	I don't mean to sound... You're the profiler.
	Okay, I would say this as a profiler and as just an observer, and as a woman, I would say this.
	There's way, way, way too much testosterone in the world.
	And it makes people aggressive.
	Men are more aggressive than women.
	I'm not saying that's a bad thing or a good thing.
	It's just a difference.
	And women just Don't get into these crimes.
	They don't think the same way men do.
	They don't feel the same things men feel.
	So same reason that a lot of men wouldn't partner with a woman.
	Right?
	Basically?
	Yeah.
	Absolutely.
	No woman can do my job.
	So, you know, that kind of attitude.
	But I feel so strongly that the anthrax bomber is a man.
	Like I said, I would eat my book on national TV if it turns out I'm wrong.
	You're aware of this story of the missing biochemist, right?
	No, tell me.
	I heard just a headline last week that there was a biochemist being looked at.
	Ah, okay.
	I don't know anything about a missing biochemist.
	I don't know whether you have enough connections to know.
	Do they think they've got who did this?
	I do not know.
	I do not know.
	I haven't heard a single thing about it other than what I saw on TV last week, and it was just a brief headline.
	There was really a lot of misinformation about that when it first happened.
	You know, they said, ah, this is crude, this is absolutely crude, or it was stolen from a lab or something or another.
	And then as time went on, they did genetic testing and they said, oh no, this isn't crude at all.
	This was actually grown and then ground to levels that would equal Biowarfare material that it was extremely sophisticated.
	So all of that really changed, but boy, they sure did put out this it was a crude nothing kind of story in the beginning.
	One of the things that happened there was the Bureau, of course, not being comprised of a lot of PhDs, although we do have some PhDs in our lab and we do have some We've got some agents out in the field that have Ph.D.s.
	Oh, you've got one of the best labs in the world, the reputation says.
	Yes, yes.
	We were getting a lot of information in the early days of the anthrax case.
	We were talking to Ph.D.
	bio experts all over the world and getting information from them.
	We were asking them questions and they were giving us answers.
	And we, if we had 10 Ph.D.s in a room with 30 years experience with anthrax, we were getting oftentimes Uh, two different opinions.
	Five in one camp and five in the other.
	So, it was a problem in the beginning with wrong information.
	Uh, which came from outside the FBI labs.
	Yes.
	Now, what does the fact that, as a profiler, what does the fact that it was extremely sophisticated and well done, what does that tell you about who did it?
	Well, what it tells me about who did it I was back in New York the weekend that the FBI released the profile on the anthrax killer and I was at MSNBC one day, all day long I was talking about it and one of the things that the FBI official profile said was that it was of such a grade that somebody could have taken crude anthrax and with a centrifuge
	And a few chemicals and equipment totaling no more than $2,500 turned it into weapons grade in their basement with certain chemicals and equipment.
	Now, I don't know if that's true or not.
	What it tells me, in answer to your question, what does it tell me that it was weapons grade?
	It tells me that the person who is responsible for this crime Probably has at least three initials after his name.
	PhD, come to mind.
	Well, that narrows the field quite a bit right away.
	Yeah.
	And has access.
	Has probably been vaccinated.
	I sure wouldn't fool around with this stuff just relying on Cipro.
	Now, how many people have you been vaccinated against anthrax?
	No.
	No, no.
	Who gets vaccinated?
	Researchers?
	Farmers?
	Military?
	Politicians.
	Now they do, yeah.
	And I think, in many ways, the anthrax case is very much like the Unabom case.
	Alright, let me stop you.
	Do you not believe in the coincidence of the 9-11 occurrences and the anthrax attacks?
	Is that too much coincidence?
	At first, When Dashiell and Brokaw and the guy down in Florida, when they were the only ones that had received the anthrax, I was not convinced that it was not state sponsored, that it wasn't phase 2 of a terrorist attack from an outside source.
	I wasn't convinced until Patrick Leahy got his letter.
	That tipped the scale for me that this was domestic.
	I keep up on things.
	I read a couple of national...
	Newspapers every day, national magazines.
	I did not know who Patrick Leigh was.
	Can you rule out the fact that it was not, perhaps it was domestic, but still connected in some way to Al Qaeda?
	No, I think what we're going to find if this person is eventually apprehended is that he took advantage of 9-11.
	Of the moment?
	Of the moment.
	And he tried to pin, you know, his letters tried to pin the wrap on Is this, in your opinion, the kind of person who would quit forever more after taking the opportunistic moment of delivering these letters, or would he inevitably strike again?
	I think he's going to strike again, and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he's listening to the show.
	Nor would I. He seems to me the type of person That would be up late at night in his little laboratory.
	What I was going to say is regarding there's tremendous similarities between I think the person that did this and the type of crime and the Unabomber.
	Now let's not forget the Unabomber got away with his crimes for 17 years for a few reasons.
	He acted alone.
	He never told anybody.
	Hold that thought.
	Hold that thought.
	We'll be right back.
	And that's why we're not taking snail mail here yet.
	You see, he probably listens to this program.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 2nd, 2002 on Premier Networks.
	The Coast to Coast is a production of the National Geographic Association.
	American Horror Story.
	So long, so long Hold on, hold on, hold on
	Do what you got I've had nothing but bad luck
	Since the day I saw the cat at my door So I came in to you, sweet lady
	Answering your mystical call Crystal ball on the table
	Showing the future, the past Same cat with them evil eyes
	And I knew it was a spell she cast She's just a devil woman with evil on her mind
	Beware the devil woman, she's gonna get you She's just a devil woman with evil on her mind
	Beware the devil woman, she's gonna get you from behind Keep me to the ring on your finger
	Let me see the lines on your hair I can see me a tall, dark stranger
	Giving you what you had in place I drank the potion she offered me
	I found myself on the floor I found myself on the floor
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 2nd, 2002 on Premier Networks.
	Good morning, everybody.
	My guest is Candace DeLong.
	20 years with the FBI, and that's what we're talking about.
	The FBI and current situation in America that we're all putting up with every day now.
	We'll get back to it in a moment.
	Stay right there.
	Now, we take you back to the past on Arkbell Somewhere in Time.
	Now, Once again, Candace DeLong, this is very interesting.
	It's from, you know what, I'm going to withhold his first name for obvious reasons.
	It's from a police officer in Chicago.
	All right, I'm a police officer in the metro area.
	In narcotics, my supervisor can't find his way to the bathroom from his office without a map.
	It's both funny and kind of scary to see it exists at all levels.
	I guess it is funny and sad.
	There you go.
	Anyway, back to the anthrax.
	Now, you think, do you think, let's ask this, do you think, this is just a guess on your part, that he will strike again or be caught First.
	Well, that's good.
	Or even better, sorry to interrupt.
	If this person, and after all he's narrowed down, you said probably three initials after his name, if they've got it narrowed down and they see, he sees, I'll stay with the he for you, sees that he's being closed in on, would he do it again before they got to him?
	Well, that's a very specific question.
	Let me answer what I was going to say before you narrowed it down that way.
	I think that he is laying low, and if he is not apprehended, he will attack again.
	Generally speaking, people that do these kinds of crimes don't just stop.
	It's the beginning of a spree.
	It's the beginning of a long Unless it's abated by law enforcement, this is what they do.
	This is what gives them pleasure.
	This is how they cope with their problems.
	And he's not going to stop.
	Unless he's apprehended.
	If he feels he's being... I don't know that anyone could predict that.
	Whether if he's being closed in on or feels that... Not that he's being closed in on, but that if he is being closed in on, that he will attack again.
	That's right.
	Couldn't say.
	The use it or lose it thing.
	Or would... Well, of course, there's no way of knowing, but it is similar in some ways to the Unabomber.
	Very much so.
	If I felt I was... If I was this guy and I thought, uh-oh, they're on to me, I'd get rid of all the evidence, wouldn't you?
	Rather than hang on to it and hope to send out more mail bombs.
	Well, one way of getting rid of it is to mail it out.
	Good point.
	You got me there, Art.
	Alright, well, you have yourself been on some cases involving terrorism, haven't you?
	Yes.
	Care to describe?
	Well, of course, it was Unabomber, but I mean, any foreign-type Involvements?
	Well, back in the early 80s, there was a group of Puerto Rican independence extremists.
	And their initials for their group, the underground group, was the FALN.
	And they were very active in Puerto Rico, New York, and Chicago.
	And prior to, they were the most successful terrorist group this country had ever seen.
	Very few people have heard of them outside of New York, Puerto Rico, and Chicago.
	But they successfully placed over 120 pipe bombs and the one most deadly was put down at Francis Tavern on Wall Street on a Friday at lunch and killed 5 people and injured 60.
	And then they took credit for it and they were eventually, 11 of them were apprehended in the spring of 1980 in Chicago and a little old lady was looking outside her window and decided not to mind her own business and made a phone call of some suspicious people outside and That arrest resulted in 11 of them, and then several years later, another group of them were arrested.
	Back in those days, when I was chasing terrorists around Chicago, we didn't have cell phones.
	I don't even think we all had beepers.
	It was just good old-fashioned, learn the subway.
	There was this one guy we were following.
	It took us a year.
	We knew he was leaving his house every Tuesday to go somewhere, but we kept losing him.
	He'd get on the subway system and he was engaging in behaviors that we call dry cleaning.
	He was engaging in behaviors to lose a tail, not because he saw a tail, just assumed that he was being watched and that told us he was going somewhere that he really did not want anyone to follow him.
	And so for a year almost of Tuesday nights, We followed him, and every Tuesday night took him a little bit farther, a little bit farther, and then finally took him to the safe house.
	We figured he was going to some safe house, meeting with his comrades or something.
	It turns out, when we got a search warrant for the safe house after he left, we found 24 pounds of unstable dynamite, 48 blasting caps, and 3,000 rounds of ammo.
	It was enough to build up, to completely blow up the 41 There's always probably going to be things that you're not going to hear about.
	surrounding buildings and uh...
	paid off well that that year of of surveillance working infinite there've been some tremendous uh... terrorism uh...
	so i think that were stopped
	uh... yeah and we don't generally uh... here a lot about the more or are we now in
	an environment where we will
	there's a lot of probably going to be things that you're not going to hear
	about uh... but there are some of the
	some of the uh...
	bigger one uh... nineteen ninety three there was a case called care
	stop p e r r stop
	and um...
	it with a five-pronged attack The first one was the World Trade Center bombing in 1993.
	The plan was that one building would fall, hit the other building, and knock it over.
	It didn't work, as we know.
	But five people did die, and several hundred were injured.
	The four other prongs of that attack were the Lincoln Tunnel, the Holland Tunnel were going to be blown up, the New York Division of the FBI building, and the United Nations building.
	And that was stopped because we had an informant in the group who was one of them and he became ideologically disenchanted with what they were going to do when he came to us.
	And we worked him and the New York Joint Terrorism Task Force, which is comprised of cops and FBI agents and Secret Service and ATF And basically, when they were ready to make the arrest, they knocked the door down of this factory in Queens, I think it was, and they were literally stirring in these big 60-gallon drums, stirring the precursor chemicals.
	It was called the Witch's Cauldron Case.
	And your informant, no doubt, was in there stirring away.
	Oh, you bet.
	And 11 of them were arrested, and they were... You didn't hear too much about it.
	This is the group that their leader was the blind cleric?
	Oh yes.
	And they all went on trial, and they were convicted.
	And the reason you didn't hear too much about it is because the trial was going on the very same time O.J.
	Simpson's trial was going on, and guess which one was getting more media attention?
	Oh, that time you didn't hear about anything but O.J.
	That's true.
	There's a case where, you know, we're certainly out in the open know what happened.
	Are you aware that on the Afghan-Pakistani border areas right now, there's a gigantic outbreak of Ebola?
	No, I did not know that.
	Yes, there is.
	That's pretty scary.
	Even hemorrhagic, other hemorrhagic diseases that are really weird and a lot of people think they're testing Well, if that's true, that is very scary, because to my knowledge, there have been no Ebola outbreaks outside of Africa.
	Uh-huh.
	Well, surprise, surprise.
	If this is really true, this is something to be alarmed about.
	Yeah, it is alarming.
	Now, it's going to lead me in asking you this.
	We have changed our policy regarding warnings.
	We get these warnings now that are quite non-specific, because we have a lot of information From always undisclosed sources that something bad is going to happen in the week of or during the celebration of or whatever.
	We get a lot of these warnings these days.
	If our government, FBI or whatever, had specific information about, for example, a biological or nuclear event in, say, a place like Los Angeles or Chicago, is it your opinion Uh... particularly if it was in the short term that a specific warning would be issued or that it would be concluded that the ensuing panic and the uh... it would override any decision to issue that specific warning.
	Get the hell out of Chicago.
	Something's about to go off.
	That kind of thing.
	Excellent question and I'm sure that This exact issue has been debated ad nauseum behind closed doors.
	Yes.
	However, I think when we look at the backlash that hit the White House, the FBI, and the CIA in May about not preventing this attack, and we should have known more, and we should have told people more, etc., etc., I think if there's enough time to make some kind of safe Evacuation?
	I can't imagine if they found out that something was going to happen in one hour.
	The trouble is, you never know for sure.
	You just have varying reliabilities with regard to the information you've received.
	You never know, or rarely would you ever know for absolute certain that it was going to occur.
	So you would only have a partial certainty and you'd be balancing that against what surely would occur with regard to panic trying to get out of a city.
	Absolutely.
	I can't even imagine what would happen if New Yorkers, for example, were told we have reliable information from a credible source that in the next seven days is going to be a dirty bomb set off in Manhattan.
	I can't even imagine the panic.
	If I was in Manhattan, I would wings and fly out. And so would everybody else. Exactly.
	Just about in Manhattan and the results of that would be certainly predictable. So you'd be balancing these two and
	I wonder if there's actual policy in place right now that says what you would and would not do in such a case. I'll
	bet there is a policy and I have a feeling for some reason it must be closely guarded
	Because I haven't heard of anything.
	And what would your conjecture be about that policy?
	Let's take the seven-day scenario.
	Oh, man.
	Well, that's a tough one.
	Yeah, I know.
	Me, personally, as a private citizen, I would want to know.
	I want to be given... Everybody was crawling all over our Governor Gray Davis out here a few months ago.
	Because of a non-specific bridge threat.
	And we have a lot of bridges out here in the Bay Area.
	Yeah, I remember.
	And a lot of people were criticizing him because it wasn't specific enough, and what are they supposed to do anyway, and blah, blah, blah.
	He took a lot of heat for it.
	And I have to say, I was glad that he did it because although I do not travel the bridges very often, I don't commute over them daily as hundreds of thousands of people do, I want to be able to make that choice.
	Am I going to drive over the bridge or am I going to take the ferry in to work today?
	Or am I going to stay home?
	You know, let it be my decision based on the information that I'm given.
	Now, that's one thing.
	Knowing that a dirty bomb may be going off in a major metropolitan area in seven days is completely different.
	But it's just so hard for me to imagine the White House feeling okay about keeping that kind of information from the public.
	After what we just went through.
	Or what they just went through.
	Well, it is a balancing act, though.
	Yeah.
	And they do have responsibilities with regard to what would happen if an alert was issued and the information wasn't accurate.
	And then, of course, there would be terrible, terrible repercussions.
	Absolutely.
	It is quite a dilemma.
	And I don't have the answers.
	I wish I did.
	Well, that's why I said earlier, Candace, and this would be thinking from you only as a private citizen, but even aside from keeping students out of this country from nations that would send them here to train to kill us.
	If another major incident occurs, if we are biologically attacked or attacked with a nuclear device of any sort, there's going to be an awful lot of pressure to use really serious force in return of a nuclear nature probably.
	How would you feel about such I mean, it is going on right now.
	They're changing policy.
	In fact, I've got a story saying that the President is about to issue some big thing saying that there's big policy change coming and the U.S.
	will attack first.
	Here it is.
	Let's see.
	Bush issues strike first strategy.
	And this comes from the Baltimore Sun.
	I think.
	Yep, yep, yep.
	She's on national staff, that's right.
	Sometime this fall, the President will issue what some are calling the biggest change in U.S.
	strategic policy since the dawn of the Cold War.
	It's the doctrine of strike first, or preemption.
	Now, what do you think about that?
	Well, it sounds to me like we are getting ready to take out Our enemy before they do it to us, anticipating that if they have the opportunity, they will do it.
	It's my understanding from what the information the government has released, there's been a tremendous amount of evidence found in Afghanistan since the war began regarding Al-Qaeda's attempts to get plutonium and to make nuclear devices.
	You know, all of this stuff that they're finding in deserted homes and caves and whatnot.
	There is every reason to believe anybody that thinks that... I think anyone that thinks that they wouldn't try it if they had it is naive.
	I think if they'd had a nuclear weapon, 9-11, they would have used that instead of the airplanes.
	I do too.
	They want to destroy us and our way of life.
	And the problem here with this particular enemy, we are dealing with an adversary Who thinks less of his own life than he does the life of his target.
	And that makes him very, very scary.
	Or her.
	We now have female suicide bombers we're seeing.
	Oh, I'm surprised to hear you add that.
	It's true.
	I said a few months ago I was on a radio show regarding profiling.
	Racial profiling.
	And I said it wasn't enough that we just scrutinize Mid-Eastern males that we really needed to probably, you know, look very careful at everyone.
	You know, if your enemy knows you're doing one thing, he'll change.
	And no sooner had I said it than there was the first female suicide bomber in Israel.
	We also, it's not known widely, but there have been a number of attempts of passengers, not related to any terrorist group or any criminal group, In the last year and a half, before 9-11, tried to take an airplane down.
	Um, because the passenger was crazy.
	It happened, um, the guy last summer that tried to take a schizophrenic.
	He was hearing voices.
	He was on a British Airways flight in Africa.
	He stormed the cockpit and the plane went into a nosedive several thousand feet before it recovered.
	And, um... What about the guy with the explosive in his shoe?
	Yes.
	I'll tell you what, not enough was made of that.
	Art, if he had gone into the lavatory, where he had privacy, that plane would be in the Atlantic.
	And that was December 23rd.
	We'd still be looking for the pieces.
	It would have been determined within hours who Robert Reed was, the problems that he had gotten on the plane.
	British intelligence knew that he was running around in the mosque with Moussaoui, Zacharias Moussaoui.
	They went to the same mosque.
	We would have known, what I'm saying, if that Flight 63, I think it was, had gone down.
	And it would have gone down if he'd gone in the lavatory.
	And I don't think enough was made of that.
	You would have seen air travel all over the world just grind to a halt for the Christmas season, no less.
	And I just don't think enough was made of it.
	And here's this doofus guy.
	What the heck was he doing?
	Why did they have him do it?
	And we know from previous people that have been arrested that it was one of their plans to have this guy, Ramzi Yosef, who was convicted, one of the 11, the leaders of the group in New York.
	He was the one that masterminded the first World Trade Center attack in 1993.
	He was, after he fled a bomb factory that he was in when a bomb accidentally went off, he fled it and the Filipino intelligence service found information that they shared with us, his plan.
	He was making plastic explosives into small compartments, like in the band of a hat or the sole of a shoe.
	Right.
	And the plan was they were going to take down 11 jetliners in one day.
	Thank God.
	All over the world.
	Janice, hold on.
	We'll save right here.
	You're listening to ArcBell Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 2nd, 2002 on Premier Networks.
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	to Art Bell somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from July 2nd, 2002 on Premier Networks.
	You simply don't get the opportunity very often to question 20-year FBI agents on the radio.
	That's what's coming up now.
	We're going to go to the phones here shortly.
	We're going to take calls.
	A lot talked about.
	The Candace, the long... Her book, by the way, is special agent my life on the front lines as a woman.
	In the SBI.
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	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired July 2nd, 2002.
	Alright, back now to Candice Long.
	Candice, you've been retired now for about two years.
	I'm wondering, How is it?
	I mean, do you miss the occasional giant shots of adrenaline?
	Do you miss the work?
	Police work is extremely addictive.
	Art, the first time that I missed it was around 8.30 a.m.
	Pacific Time on 9-11.
	Yeah, I bet.
	At that point, I had been retired 14 months.
	And when I saw those two towers come down, I just thought, man, I wish I was back in and I'd be signing up to go to New York right now.
	My brother's with the Bureau, and he was at Ground Zero doing evidence recovery work, and he can hardly even speak of it.
	It was so devastating.
	And now?
	I mean, are you satisfied with With what you're doing, you're in the media now talking about all of this, as opposed to being in the middle of it.
	How do you feel about it now?
	I love it.
	I love it.
	I was telling a friend the other day if I'd known the last couple of years of my bureau career that what I was looking at in front of me after retirement, I would have smiled a whole lot more.
	Larry in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, I get these computer messages, brings an interesting point, maybe meaningless, maybe not.
	...occurred.
	Then a plan to take out 11 airliners.
	You mentioned it yourself.
	And a lot of people wonder if there is any significance to the number 11.
	I mean, I know it seems crazy to look at some of these things, but people look at a lot of these things, and frankly, maybe they're not wrong, because in the Muslim world, there's a lot of significance to certain dates, just as there is here.
	Certain dates are very... Right?
	Especially anniversaries, I'm told, in the Muslim world, and in the world of terrorism, anniversaries are very important.
	April 19th, the day that Oklahoma City Federal Building was bombed, I believe is Hitler's birthday, and then in 1998, April 19th, was the Columbine Massacre, and they picked it for those two kids, Klebold and Harris, picked that for a very specific reason.
	So we do it in our own society?
	In regards to your emailer from North Carolina, I no sooner had finished saying 11 jetliners when it struck me, too.
	I thought, 11?
	Why 11?
	Why not 10 or 15 or 20?
	And I'm told that there is some significance to the number 11 in the Muslim or Islamic world, but I don't know what it is.
	Chris in South Carolina, interesting question for you.
	He says, I'd like to know what Candace thinks about the A300 that crashed in New York, New York.
	You know, it seems to have gone away much too quickly.
	If it was an A300 problem, why didn't they ground A300s?
	You mean the Airbus?
	Yes.
	In October?
	Yes.
	The last thing I read about that was that they had pretty much figured out that it was a rapid movement of the rudder by the pilot, which apparently should never be done.
	And that was a couple of months ago I read that.
	I don't think it went away too soon, actually.
	I'm not worried about that plane accident being a part of any terrorist act at all.
	Apparently, a lot of structural engineers have come to the same conclusion.
	I mean, right now, in America, if just one airplane went down and it was clearly a terrorist action, it would devastate our economy.
	I mean, any major terrorist action at all is going to really wreck the economy.
	I mean, just looking at what's already occurred since 9-11, I don't even know what kind of price tag you could put on that.
	Yeah, it's very worrisome and, you know, you have brought up a couple of points.
	One is in regards to another terrorist attack.
	It could be something as severe as a jetliner going into a building or a dirty bomb, God forbid, or it could be A car bomb in front of a school.
	Any number of things that we haven't thought of that go on in Israel all the time.
	They affect not only, it's going to be devastating on the economy, one of the other things you've brought up is the foreign students in this country, from what I would call criteria countries, I think are going to have to pack up and leave.
	I can't imagine Americans being tolerant anymore.
	Pack up and leave.
	Leave the United States.
	Yes.
	I can't imagine I can't imagine, I could be wrong, Americans being tolerant of foreign students in the United States who are from a country that we may be able to prove was involved in a terrorist attack on us.
	All right.
	A lot of people want to speak to you and ask you questions, so let's do it.
	First time caller on the air with Candace DeLong.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Yes sir, where are you?
	I am in Pomona, California.
	Okay.
	First of all, Candace, she is Really on the money.
	She is hitting things very well.
	Living in Southern California like I do, she knows probably as well as I do how open and free our borders are.
	And these people are walking among us.
	They are going to wait for the pause like that's going on right now and they will hit us again when we least expect it.
	It's not going to be on the 4th of July like They're not going to wait for this big warning that they're going to hit us right when we least expect it.
	I'm sure when we least expect it.
	Ken, is everybody worried about the 4th of July?
	There's some good cause, I suppose.
	Hitting America on its day of celebration of independence would be, I suppose, possibly a goal.
	But they're more likely to hit us when we're not ready, aren't they?
	In an area we're not thinking about.
	If I was the leader of a terrorist group, that's exactly what I would do.
	I would not be concerned with the 4th of July.
	You know, it's interesting, you were talking earlier, Art, about these electronic overhears or intercepts have increased the last few days.
	As we, looking back, now know that we saw the days before 9-11, that might be a deliberate Well, that's what terrorism does, right?
	Yeah.
	Why do you think that, as of yet, the Homicide Bombers, which is, I think, the preferable way to refer to them, the Homicide Bombers have restricted what they've done mostly to Israel.
	Isn't it likely to arrive on our shore like any minute?
	Art, I'm surprised it hasn't happened.
	After the war started, Before the war started, I really thought, and I said it to many people, that we were going to start seeing car bombings and suicide or homicide bombings, as you call it, in the United States.
	I thought it was going to happen as soon as the war started, and I'm surprised that it hasn't.
	He made a point about our borders.
	We have this long, long border with Canada and Mexico, and you just can't watch these, you know, it's just too much territory.
	Right.
	Any thoughts on that?
	I think that, I don't know if you recall, but a man attempting to get into the United States to disrupt the Millennium Celebration in Seattle, 1999, was apprehended simply because, God bless her, A border patrol agent thought he seemed a little nervous when she was questioning him.
	Asked him if she could look in the trunk and he, stupidly, for him, wisely for us, said yes.
	And then she noticed some wires.
	Well now, let's go back a little bit.
	I've been through borders north and south many times now.
	If they ask you if it's okay to look in the trunk, you don't really have an option to say no, it isn't, do you?
	I mean, if you say no, then you go to what's called the secondary, and they rip every piece of your vehicle apart, pretty much, right?
	Right, right.
	Okay.
	It's one of the few places where they don't need a search warrant.
	So the yes might have been sort of a last ditch, maybe, once I say yes, they won't bother kind of attempt.
	Right.
	But look what happened.
	Just because she was on her game that day, and a little suspicious of this man who did look Middle Eastern, and one thing led to another, and that act alone, God knows what, she prevented from happening in Seattle.
	Now do you think that there could be a case made that non-US citizens who are here for whatever reason would be shown the door as much for their own safety as ours.
	I mean, could you make that?
	Because as you know, the ACLU is going to go bonkers.
	Everybody's going to go nuts if we do such thing.
	Yes.
	So, wouldn't you have to approach it from that point of view, I mean, for their own safety?
	Yes.
	I think, you know, and well, let's think back to the early days after 9-11, a number of People were murdered in this country two or three the first week.
	One man was a Sikh, I think, in Arizona, coming out of the temple.
	I mean, he wasn't even Muslim.
	Yeah, but the other side of the coin is, for example, I've seen lawsuits filed by Middle Eastern-appearing people who were not allowed on airliners for whatever reason.
	You know, who were doing a damn thing wrong.
	They weren't doing anything wrong.
	They just looked wrong.
	And so now there are lawsuits flying.
	Totally ridiculous, I heard that too.
	This is the deal.
	100% of the suicide pilots or homicide pilots, whatever you want to call those 19 men, 100% of them were males between 20 and 50 of Middle Eastern descent.
	100% of them.
	were males between 20 and 50 of Middle Eastern descent.
	100% of them.
	What happened on 9-11, they did not make life in America any easier for Middle Easterners here.
	No.
	And it's a fact.
	And it's sad.
	But you can't get away from the truth.
	The truth is 100% of those pilots that were involved in that were Middle Easterners.
	And so if you are Middle Eastern male, you very well may be scrutinized more so than a 10-year-old redhead girl.
	Well, dogma's a really strong thing, and I don't think it's going to be.
	At all restricted to men.
	You know, in Vietnam there were sappers and there were lots of females, believe me.
	So if you have a strong belief in something and you're willing to sacrifice your own life, then I think eventually you'll end up with an equal number of women, don't you?
	I think so, but for now.
	Like I said, I think we need to carefully scrutinize everyone, but especially those that fit the profile of Those that have committed terror attacks against us and those that have sworn to continue to try to do so.
	And that happens to be Middle Eastern men?
	Yeah, Israel's beginning to get rather proactive themselves.
	They fired a missile here a couple days ago and dispatched a bomb maker, one of the top bomb makers for, you know, the suicide bomber.
	One of the real experts.
	I mean, they just I put up a helicopter and fired a missile and they had a car and that was it.
	Is that what we should be doing?
	Uh...
	Well, we definitely need to locate them.
	I don't think we can... I'm not in favor of executing people.
	I think when we get away from charging Giving due process, a trial.
	But when we get too far afield of that, we have really lost our way.
	Yeah, I know.
	And I don't want to see that happen.
	That's what I was talking about earlier.
	But I mean, that's what's at risk.
	And, you know, sometimes in a war, this is a war.
	Sometimes in a war, you've got to kill the enemy.
	I mean, you just got to kill him.
	Assassination is a word.
	But if you know that there's a guy...
	You know, in southern Lebanon, for example, that's driving in a car with lots of bombs made up and ready to go to dispatch to bombers that'll come across our borders, and you have a chance to send out an F-15 or something and, you know, send one up his tailpipe.
	Do you do that or not?
	You say not, huh?
	I would say not, but let me tell you why.
	Not that I don't want to get him.
	When you execute someone, or you kill them, or you have just dried up a source of information, I'd say grab them, get all the information you can out of them, find out who they've been calling, who's been calling them, where have they been, trace their credit card usage, and you're going to find more bad guys.
	Let's go with what you've just said, because I'll give you another hard question.
	Let's say that we get the guy.
	And so now we've got him in the box, we've got him in a room somewhere.
	How heroic would you imagine the efforts in that room might get to be to extract the information that he's probably not going to want to give up?
	Pretty darn heroic.
	I don't know if you're aware of it, but the French intelligence service was following suspected terrorists around Um, the summer before 9-11, last summer.
	And they watched him go back and forth to Afghanistan.
	They knew that he met with Bin Laden.
	And they apprehended him, I think two weeks before 9-11.
	They admit they tortured him.
	One of the things they found out as a result of the torture is what exactly he was up to.
	And what he was up to was he had been given the directors from Osama Bin Laden.
	To blow up the American Embassy in Paris.
	That's a pretty serious event.
	And they tortured you.
	Yes, they admit that they did.
	It's been in the newspapers.
	I'm not telling tales out of school.
	Okay, well then, the obvious question is, do we go that far?
	Do we?
	That's French.
	I mean, do we go that far?
	Well... Should we go that far?
	I think...
	When one considers what they would do to us if we were committing, trying to commit terrorist acts in their country?
	Yes.
	There's also different types of torture.
	Torture isn't necessarily physical and the horrible things that we've all heard about.
	Torture can be, there can be methods to enhance your chances of someone telling you things through chemical means.
	Sodium pentothal is called the truth serum.
	In fact, it is not truth serum.
	When I was a psychiatric nurse, I was present and assisted during a few sodium pentothal interviews of some people.
	What sodium pentothal is, it's like a chemical hypnosis.
	It relaxes you so much that you're almost in a hypnotic state and you can focus on one thing.
	I remember experiencing sodium pentothal.
	Listen, we're at a break point.
	Hold on.
	I once went to the dentist, you know, and I was going to get put to sleep, and he did that with sodium pentothal, and the nurse said, you're going to tell us all.
	She was joking, I think.
	Anyway, he put the needle in my arm, and he just pushed it a little tiny bit, and I went, oh!
	Wow!
	Do it again.
	And he did.
	And I went, you know, I was gone.
	He wasn't about to give me a little squirt.
	He gave me the whole ball of wax and I just went away.
	I'm Art Bell and I will be right back.
	Probably.
	This is Premiere Networks.
	That was Ark Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
	Thanks for watching.
	And I've been waiting for this moment for all my life.
	Oh Lord.
	Can you feel it coming in the air tonight?
	Oh Lord.
	Waiting for this moment for all my life.
	Oh Lord.
	Hold on I remember your worry
	How could I ever forget it's the first time The last time we ever met
	How could I ever forget it's the first time The last time we ever met
	But I know the reason why you keep your silence up I remember your words
	But I know the reason why you gave me such A beautiful leap
	The hurt doesn't show but the pain still grows So forget that you agreed
	I'll be waiting for you in the air at night Oh, how I love you
	But I'll be waiting for this moment for all my life Oh Lord
	I'll be waiting in the air at night Oh Lord
	Oh Lord But I'll be waiting for this moment for all my life
	to Art Bell somewhere in time.
	Tonight's program originally aired July 2nd, 2002.
	You know, that's the problem.
	I think we can all feel it coming in the air tonight.
	Just about every night lately, you can feel it coming in the air, and you know it's coming.
	You just don't know when.
	Somebody was on the front lines of all of this for 20 years, Candace DeLong, for the FBI, is my guest.
	She'll be right back.
	Now we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	Harmon.
	with a little more news is there to do something about how the world trade
	center looks like a giant number eleven on the new york skyline that was no i never thought about that
	it's very interesting uh... ok i want to really lay into the phone i promised and
	i need to do it with candace candace along uh... wildcard line you're on
	the air with candace longo
	yes uh... program the uh... at former fbi guest mentioned that uh...
	the anthrax was uh... actually uh... perpetrated domestically by someone
	with access to uh...
	uh... the national security agency type of uh... anthrax and i also read in the
	covert action magazine and some other Unfortunately, few mainstream media.
	Barbara Hatch Rosenberg, the Federation of American Scientists Directorate specializing in chemical biological weapons, says it came not from any foreign source, but from the only kind that has been produced by the United States military, or the CIA, using the chemicals in the grade of anthrax.
	And I think, as the guest pointed out, this was a phony attempt to try to pin this on What would be a target of opportunity for the United States government to go off and attack?
	And I think even beyond that, we've got to consider that this would not be just an individual.
	This would be someone, people involved with the top levels of government who have a powerful frantic interest in framing up countries like Iraq around the Rumsfeld-Wolfritz faction in and out of government, in the media, All right.
	All right.
	Hold it right there.
	I think we've got the idea.
	that uh... sort of thing that will work but the guys are right right right
	right right there i think we've got the idea of how you saw where he was going
	uh...
	that uh... we would have uh... essentially done this to ourselves to frame
	frame iraq and give us uh... just dot public justification uh... political
	justification to win and finish finish the job in iraq
	uh... i've always rebelled against such thoughts uh...
	what about you well i
	i have to say i
	i disagree with the caller in that everything he said at the beginning was accurate and
	regarding doctor sure
	that robert uh...
	if the goal if there were high-level
	government officials involved in the goal of the frame iraq They didn't do it, did they?
	No.
	No.
	There's been no link to Iraq whatsoever.
	There's been not one link to Iraq yet regarding 9-11.
	The story that was out there for so long about how an Iraqi intelligence officer met with Mohammed Atta in Prague?
	Not true.
	Did you know that?
	No, I didn't.
	Oh, yes.
	A couple of months ago they backed out on that story and no one's even able to say how it came to pass, but it got That it got out there.
	There never was a document, documented meeting of an Iraqi intelligence officer and Muhammad Ali.
	Didn't happen.
	Didn't happen.
	Well, you know, we're going to suffer, aren't we, an awful lot of disinformation about all of this.
	There's, you know, what any war, you know, first casualty is information and that's certainly true here, isn't it?
	Saddam Hussein is an easy target for Americans to be a united front.
	He's a big, bad boogeyman.
	Perhaps a necessary target, actually.
	How about this, Art?
	15 of the 19 suicide pilots were Saudis.
	Do you have any doubt that if 15 of the 19 That the suicide pilots were Iraqi?
	That there'd be a Starbucks on every corner in Baghdad right now?
	That's a good point.
	Yeah.
	Very good.
	Saudi Arabia is not our friend.
	No, I know.
	And we have, there have been some obvious, although they're suppressed in the news, there have been obvious evidence of how unfriendly the Saudis really are to us.
	And I notice that we just play it down and spin it down and, of course, it's oil, right?
	And we only get 8% of our oil from there.
	Yeah, but it's so important, 8%.
	Yeah, well, think about Prince... I forget his name.
	The leader of Saudi Arabia met with George Bush a few weeks ago on the ranch in Texas, and President Bush holds a press conference and says that they had close personal bonding.
	This is about oil.
	Well, yeah, that's what I thought I said, oil.
	You know, we're not getting any oil from Iraq.
	I mean, you know, I think we might have the wrong nation in our sights here.
	Okay.
	I've got to move on.
	I could ask for an ease to the Rockies.
	You're on there with Candace Long.
	Hello.
	Oh, good morning, Eric.
	Morning, sir.
	Good morning, Ms.
	Long.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	I work as a substitute teacher.
	This is Mark in Indianapolis.
	I'm a substitute teacher on August 30th and 31st of 2001.
	Now, there's a video feed that goes out to all the public schools called Channel One News.
	Have you heard of that?
	No, I haven't.
	Okay, normally they deal with things like skateboarding and rock groups and that sort of stuff.
	For those two days, 12 days before 9-11, they had a very strong focus, two-parter, on Osama Bin Laden, the Al-Qaeda terrorist network, the oppressive nature of the Taliban, and the inevitability of coming Al-Qaeda terrorist attacks against targets within the United States.
	Now my question that I'm trying to form here, obviously, I mean, see, I was asked to record this and play this for six consecutive social studies classes.
	I kept thinking, now why are they showing this to these kids?
	This is terrible.
	This is depressing.
	This is awful.
	You know, of course, twelve days later I knew why.
	Now my question is, if it was found with no question, the members, and by the way, they did interview people in the agency.
	And the spokesman said, yes, this is inevitable.
	This is coming.
	We've got to, you know, be prepared for this.
	If you can get a copy of that.
	And please watch that with an agent's eye.
	See what that tells you about what was really known.
	So your point is, they knew everything.
	They knew it was coming.
	And that's proof.
	Well, what I'm saying is... That is your point, right?
	Yeah, pretty much.
	If it was found, just without question, that somebody knew, what steps would the agency take toward members of our own government for either hiding the information, spinning the information, or using it to their personal advantage?
	Candace?
	You know, I think that we, not related to this film that you're talking about, but in response to what you just said, you know, how would people respond?
	I think we just went through that in May when the fur started flying about what did the White House know, when did they know it, what did the FBI know, what did the CIA know, and you saw what happened.
	There's this flurry of activity.
	Congress passes a bunch of new laws.
	We have a new government agency that's going to be formed.
	Homeland Security turned into a cabinet level position and there's all these knee-jerk responses and then it all went away.
	I would be surprised to find out that with absolute certainty the administration knew exactly what was going to happen when because I was in government work long enough to know two government employees can't keep a secret and that would just be a secret that it's way too You know, I mean, a lot of people believe that it was well known that we were going to be attacked at Pearl Harbor and it was allowed to occur, so this is not really that far from that category.
	kind of question and it's yeah i i i i never believed it about poor pearl harbor which is
	getting a lot of emails and i i don't really believe it about this either and maybe
	that's just hopeful patriotism but i don't think so i i think
	there have been real knowledge of the high places uh... the women's undone
	how could it possibly have been in bushes
	that interest to allow something like that to happen
	I've heard people say, well, they wanted that oil pipeline, or he wanted this.
	You're not going to be President of the United States and allow... I agree.
	That only 3,000 people were killed was miraculous.
	It should have been a lot more.
	Yeah, I agree with all that.
	I remember the morning that it occurred, they were saying there could have been as many as 50,000 people in the buildings.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Candace Long.
	Hello.
	Arden, Candace, yeah, you know, I think I know why the suicide bombings haven't started here yet, and I don't think we're going to be hit hard again until around December sometime.
	Look, these terrorists are calculated enough to know that they don't want to jeopardize the election of any liberal candidate in November that would be sympathetic toward issues that are important to terrorists.
	They would be a political backlash.
	They could not tolerate if they hit us hard before November.
	They know who their buddies are in Congress.
	They know who's sympathetic toward issues like open borders.
	They weren't afraid to awaken the sleeping giant on 9-11.
	And, you know, I mean, it didn't stop them.
	The fact that we would get angry, the fact that we would get conservative, the fact that we would get tough, that didn't scare them.
	They did it anyway, right?
	Well, right, but they had to pick a moment.
	I mean, they weren't going to do it.
	You know, they're thinking now, I think at this point, it would be suicide for them to hit us again hard because the backlash would be just so, you know, the borders would close up.
	Student visas would end overnight.
	You know, all the things that are important to them would dry up immediately.
	Well, it's a good question, Candace.
	If they hit us again, would they be going too far with all those repercussions that Would close their opportunity for warfare down?
	Would that stop them from hitting us again?
	I think that this gentleman has thought of some things that perhaps the terrorists haven't.
	You know, you're right, it's not in the terrorist's best interest to hit us hard again.
	However, let's not forget that when Congress voted whether or not to go to war, every single one of them, liberal and conservative, Democrat and Republican, with the exception of one lone dissenting vote, Voted to go get them.
	And there was no ifs, ands, or buts.
	I don't really think the terrorists have thought all of these things through.
	And if we stop all student visas and kick everybody out of the country that we think doesn't belong here, that's not going to bother them.
	They're still going to find another way to infiltrate and to get in.
	Look at this Jose Padilla.
	I don't want to beat a drum here, but here's an American born and bred in America, raised on the streets of Chicago, and he was recruited.
	That's how they'll do it.
	First time caller on the line.
	You're on there with Candace Long.
	Good morning.
	Hello?
	Hello.
	Yes, you're on there.
	Hi, this is Kogo, San Diego, Doug.
	Yes, sir.
	Hi, Mr. DeLong.
	Thank you for being the kind of FBI agent I think we need.
	Oh, you're welcome.
	Ma'am, would you speak to the issues that I think are alive and well in this country that the FBI has achieved that adversarial juxtaposed position to our people through that long-running spade under the tutelage of Mr. Hoover and to where Today, we much don't think that they're doing enough or that they keep us out of the loop or not telling us what's happened.
	Like, there's many of us believe we were already once attacked off the coast over there when they shot our plane down with a shoulder-fired missile, and perhaps the FBI was instrumental in covering it up because nobody wanted all them airlines to quit flying.
	Do you fly the 800?
	Thank you, Art.
	All right.
	Candace, I have questions about flight 800 to myself.
	From my understanding, there was absolutely no evidence whatsoever recovered and the plane was almost 100% recovered.
	That's why the man in charge of the investigation, Jim Kallstrom, was adamant that no findings be made until as much of the plane, if all of the plane if possible, was recovered.
	There's no indication whatsoever that an explosive device went into that plane.
	What a lot of people saw burning in the sky that was a projectile was a part of the plane shooting from the plane down to the water.
	So, if you look across the dark sky and you saw a glowing projectile, and it just lasted a matter of seconds before it was in the water, it could have been interpreted as something going from the ground level up to the plane as opposed to the Something, when the plane exploded, the gas tank.
	That's how they've determined it happened.
	And a piece of the plane shooting down to the ocean.
	I know there's another rumor.
	Well, a lot of bad things have happened, Candace.
	And a lot of times, we attribute it to, in the case of planes, pilot error, or mechanical difficulties, or a million different things that could be said.
	And one has to wonder, how many terrorists Um, originated things have occurred that have been attributed to something else, and nobody really came out and took credit for doing it, or that credit never became public.
	Well, here's the thing about that, Art.
	It's a good question, but if you look at the nature of terrorism and what it is the terrorist is trying to do, why wouldn't they take credit for a plane going down?
	Because they want to terrorize people.
	Well, when did Al Qaeda officially take credit for this?
	You know, good point.
	I figured you were coming at me with that one.
	I was very, very shocked that Ben Laden, in the early days after the attack, denied that he did it.
	Because that's so not him.
	That is so not him.
	The only thing I could think of was that the world was horrified at what had... Love America or hate us.
	The vast majority of people in the world were shocked and horrified that the Twin Towers were destroyed and innocent people were killed.
	And I think Bin Laden maybe was going, ooh, hmm... High overachievement.
	Yeah, a little too much on this one.
	Maybe this might be the public relations nightmare I've heard about.
	He eventually admitted it on these tapes.
	Where he talks about the glory of the buildings falling down and how he never expected them to do that.
	We only expected, I only expected, quote, I only expected the upper floors above the airplane.
	Yes.
	You know, that's an admission.
	Why he didn't admit right after, I can only think because it just would not have been in his best interest.
	And maybe he thought the United States was not going to be able to prove it.
	Maybe he actually thought that.
	Well, Short of his admission, I don't know how much proof we're holding on to, do you?
	No.
	The two taped interviews are good enough for me.
	Your book is Special Agent My Life on the Front Lines as a woman in the FBI.
	How's your book doing?
	Well, thanks to you and your interview last August, it went into best seller status on Amazon.
	Right away.
	And the paperback just came out about three weeks ago.
	It's doing well.
	That's because I think people want to read about people like yourself.
	Well, thank you.
	Part of the reason I wrote the book was I wanted people to see that the FBI does a lot of things well and does a lot of things right.
	And that it's just a bunch of good stories.
	And I think since We are a government agency supported by taxpayers' funds.
	You have the right to know.
	One more quick question, perhaps.
	East of the Rockies, you're on air with Candace Long and not a whole lot of time here.
	Hello.
	Yeah, I would like to ask Candace how she feels about biological attacks.
	I worry about that, a silent attack being next.
	Yeah, well, it's scary.
	I was reading, there's a book out called, I forget the author, but it's called Germs And it came out right around 9-11.
	And in many ways, it was very reassuring.
	You know, for one thing, the delivery system that would be necessary, like, say, if you were going to put a bunch of Ebola or anthrax on a missile, when the missile explodes, you're going to destroy the vast majority, something like 99% of your agent, your chemical or your biological agent.
	If it's in a missile, yeah.
	If it's in a missile.
	There are other delivery systems.
	It is scary.
	Well, when you're dealing with people that have already demonstrated they will sacrifice their life to take ours in as large a number as possible, then biologicals make some horrid sense.
	Yes.
	I think the, from what I understand, the thing we have to fear most is smallpox.
	I noticed they were distributing gas masks or something in Washington.
	Oh?
	Yes, about gas masks in Washington.
	And of course, everybody immediately thinks, well, if they're getting them there, why shouldn't I have one?
	Listen, our time is out.
	The show is over and all that stuff.
	Oh, I know.
	What an absolute pleasure to have you.
	And we'll have you back again.
	And I hope everybody goes buys your book.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	And good night.
	Good night.
	All right.
	That's it.
	That's how fast it goes.
	Candice DeLong, an incredibly bright lady.
	Her book, Special Agent.
	My life on the front lines as a woman in the FBI.
	My suggestion to you is to indeed make it to Amazon.com where you'll get it at a great discount.
	I think you'll enjoy that read a lot.
	This is a very special woman from the high desert.
	I'm Art Bell.

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