Bob Lazar, the physicist who claims to have worked at Area 51’s S4 in June 1982–June 1989, describes nine disc-shaped alien crafts (52 ft diameter) with gravity-wave propulsion, dismissing "few pounds" weight theories while noting altered government records. His briefings included "the kids"—non-human pilots—and Element 115 reactors, though he distrusts authorities after security breaches and threats. Plausible photos align with his observed flight modes, but most are debunked as manipulated. Now consulting on a movie with James Spader or Kevin Spacey, Lazar insists secrecy remains the biggest obstacle to truth, leaving lingering questions about lost technology and government accountability. [Automatically generated summary]
I've been doing all good evening, good afternoon, good morning, whatever the case may be, wherever you are, in whatever part of the world you're in, since we covered just about all of it with a program called Post Coast Man.
Seven after ten, uh, coming up on seven after ten Pacific time right now.
And I don't know where to begin tonight with the mundane news or the, you know, we're in this window.
We're in the Truscan window.
I guess I might as well begin here, huh?
Truskin, as you know, has made a prediction that there's going to be the biggest UFO sighting of the century, or maybe of a century, I'm not sure, tonight.
Now, soon.
The window for it began at 9.50 p.m.
And as I said, we're at 10.07 and 30 seconds, and that'll tell you how long a delay there is from my voice to your reception, you know, with the delays and such.
In fact, let's try that just for fun.
If you're watching the clock, you'll be able to tell how much delay time there is.
There's a built-in six or seven-second delay, and then there's satellite time for my voice to get to your voice.
So we're coming up on 10.0854321 mark, 10.08.
So that'll give you some idea now.
He said again that between 9.50 and between midnight, so from now until midnight, there's going to be the biggest UFO sighting in a century or in this century.
There is actually a pretty big difference.
And we're in that window.
So if you want to go, here's what I've done.
If you want to go to my website, and I hope we don't bring it down, I really hope we don't bring it down.
If you want to go to my website, artbell.com, instead of the usual webcam that I've got there, I have a video camera hooked up to a third-generation night vision scope.
Pretty wild stuff, huh?
I've had that for several years.
And so I've got it pointed at Las Vegas, and I want to explain to you what you're going to see.
It's taking a picture, it's snapping a picture every minute.
Now, in between those minutes, should I see something, say, spectacular, you know, whatever, I could snap an instant picture.
And I want to explain to you, as you take a look at it, what you're going to see if you want to look.
Otherwise, all you're going to see is, okay, here's the picture.
On the far left, you're going to see part of a tree.
Then you're going to see two telephone poles, vertical telephone poles.
And they're lit up quite brightly, of course, because, well, I don't know why.
There's some light on them or whatever.
And night vision is extremely sensitive.
And then you're going to see a tree on the right.
And the area in the middle of that, between the two phone poles and the tree, you're going to see kind of a glow.
You're going to see a glow.
And that glow is Las Vegas, Nevada, 65 miles away from me.
So that's the glow that you see between the phone poles and the tree.
That's Las Vegas, Nevada.
You're also probably going to see some stars.
There's not that many stars, but you're going to see some stars in the photograph as well.
There's many more fruitful areas of the sky.
If we wanted to look at stars with night vision, I could do that.
But we're seeing a substantial portion of the skies immediately above Las Vegas, Nevada, from Perrump, Nevada, west of Las Vegas.
So should anything really spectacular occur in this time period, I think that I would see it.
I'm going to try and keep my eyes on it.
It's kind of hypnotic.
I'm watching it in real time while you get a snap of it every minute.
That's on my website if you feel like looking.
Pretty cool.
What I've done is I've reduced the color saturation, which I can do on the computer.
And what that does is pull all of the green out of it.
You know, night vision is normally green, and this would be, except I've pulled the saturation out so that you have a night vision black and white picture from about 65 miles away.
And again, that glow between the two phone poles and the tree, that's Las Vegas through a mountain pass.
So we'll see.
I mean, from here, we may see nothing.
Or, you know, I may be pointed at the wrong place in the sky, but I figured with the prediction the way it is, best bet, point toward Las Vegas.
So you've got some ground references.
Again, let me give it to you one more time.
A tree on the left.
Sometimes you'll see a car go by.
Don't let that, you know, extremely bright.
Then there's two telephone poles.
And then there's a glow, an area, kind of a glowing area between the phone poles and the tree on the right.
And that is Las Vegas.
That is light from Las Vegas in the night sky here.
Otherwise, it is a clear night.
You will see some Las Vegas air traffic.
And you'll be able to discern that, I'm sure, by the fact that in one picture it's there, and the next picture it's there, you know, one minute apart, going either towards San Francisco or Seattle or back from.
That would be the route that we'd be seeing in this portion of the sky.
So I thought, what the hell, we'll put the webcam up, and if anything really wild happens, Maybe we'll get a shot of it.
I'm prepared to snap one instantly if I see something happening.
You know what the problem is, though?
I'm going to have to look away.
I just realized I've got other things going on, so I can't stare at that screen all the time.
In fact, I'm going to have to look away.
I have commercials, I have news, I have stuff I have to do, so I can't sit here and stare at it all the time.
There's a lot of anticipation out there, I know.
In fact, here's kind of a side story for you.
Stung by intelligence failures, our president tonight, in a speech, asked Congress to remake the government with a terrorist-fighting Department of Homeland Security if it should happen.
The president wants, a new department would inherit 169,000 employees.
Oh my God, that's a lot of employees.
And a $37.4 billion budget from the agencies that it would absorb.
Now, listen to this.
This agency would absorb the Secret Service, the Coast Guard, and the embattled Immigration and Customs Service.
Congress welcomed the agency shuffling plan, even as lawmakers intensify their inquiry into lapses before the September 11 attacks.
They're having this whistleblower hearing going on right now, and it's pretty compelling.
They were really questioning this young lass very heavily.
She sent in the infamous memo.
So that would absorb quite a few ages.
In other words, the Coast Guard, immigration and naturalization, customs.
In other words, it'll all be under one banner.
And that's very interesting.
It would be under the banner of a terrorist something or another.
And I wonder if the only thing I wonder is whether some of the natural duties that these agencies perform that are important will get somehow changed or absorbed when they become more of a terrorist fighting agency or Homeland Security terrorist fighting agency.
I don't know.
Interesting.
Yasser Arafat ridiculed suggestions that Israel just might exile him because of the unrelenting Palestinian attacks.
I'll die here, he told reporters during a tour of his damaged headquarters on Thursday.
Israeli tanks and giant bulldozers had had away with part of it, the wall there, and it's kind of a wreck.
And, you know, every time something happens, why they pull the tanks up to Mr. Arafat's door, sort of, oh, there goes a car.
Now, see, if it happened to snap one during that, you would have seen an extremely bright light that might have fooled you.
And that would have been a car, headlight.
You know, in night vision, they're extremely bright.
Well, all right.
At least you've got a little reference in that photograph.
And I hope it stays up.
I hope you can see it.
Winona Ryder ordered to stand trial on charges alleging she shoplifted some $6,000 worth of merchandise from Sax Fifth Avenue.
$6,000, my God.
And possessed a drug without a prescription.
And then her fans are, I guess, doing some kind of boycott or something.
So, wow.
That's interesting, isn't it?
Now, here's something.
I don't know.
I'm kind of a fan of World Cup.
My wife and I were in Paris for the last World Cup.
And, you know, the French, they play a mean game of soccer, real mean game of soccer.
And they're always in the top contenders.
You know, they're right on up there.
They're either going to win or they're going to be right up there.
So it's not so good this year.
The French are in danger of becoming the first defending champions eliminated in the opening round of a World Cup since Brazil in 1966.
The team followed their stunning 1-0 loss to World Cup newcomer Senegal.
Ooh, that's embarrassing, huh?
By Urgue, tying them 0-0 on Thursday, leaving them on the verge of elimination.
The French eliminated?
Oh, my God.
Could it really happen?
Would anybody really care?
All right, in a moment, we'll come back.
Now, I should tell you that I have sources.
I understand there's a large...
Bob Lazar is coming up next hour.
I want to hear from somebody out with the crowd right now.
And I want to hear how big this crowd is and where they are and that kind of stuff.
So everybody else, just don't call right now.
I know that there's a lot of people with Kreskin or wherever it is.
I want to have a description of where you are.
So everybody else, hang up, please.
Only if you have a cell phone and you are with the Kreskin crowd should you call this radio program right now.
That's all I'm going to take, with the exception of one call here.
Otherwise, you had better be with the crowd when you call.
Because I really want to hear what's going on, and I want to bring it to the nation as best I can.
And the best way I can do that is to use you all as reporters, right?
So that's the deal.
Everybody else, I don't care what you have to say, hang up because we want to hear what's going on.
Anyway, I want to hear what's going on.
So that means you have to listen to what's going on, I guess.
The numbers that you can use, first time caller line, 775-727-1222.
Yeah, 1222.
That's 775-727-1222.
Or the wildcard lines at 775, the area code, 727-1295.
And the east and west of the Rockies lines.
You can use those too.
But unless you are with the crowd, unless you are with the Kruskan crowd, do not, repeat, do not call.
Because along with the photograph that I've got every minute on the webcam, obviously I want to know what's going on out there and where everybody is and all that kind of thing.
So with all That in mind, and I'll talk a little more about the whole Kruskan prediction in a second.
we've been getting calls here non-stop about the things so i'll tell you more about it uh...
in a moment All right, here we are coming up on 1023 Pacific Time right now, and once again, Creskin has made a prediction, and we are in that window right now for what it's worth.
What I said last night, I'm going to repeat again tonight for those of you who don't know what I think about this.
I've said what I think, and I'll say it again.
I can't figure out what the upshot of this is for Creskin.
If he'd made a prediction for a year or two years, then you could see, yeah, you know, you're going to get your publicity value out of it.
But to predict something so close term, you know, he predicted it for tonight within the week.
That makes me wonder.
He's put up $50,000, if he's wrong, about this UFO prediction that says three or four craft are going to be seen by people in Las Vegas who are with Kreskin and out in the desert.
And I'm out in the desert.
I just saw a very neat falling star.
And I'm sitting here looking at the lights of Las Vegas, as you can be if you wish.
In the meantime, we are going to try and take calls, with the exception of this one coming up, only from people who are out there with a Kreskin crowd.
And I know you've got cell phones and cameras, and it's probably like Independence Day, right?
Shouting for the aliens.
Hurry up and come in, and we welcome you, and all the rest of it.
I can't figure out the psychology of what Kreskin has done.
I just, for the life of me, cannot figure it out.
Because the downside seems too great for whatever immediate publicity value you get.
If it doesn't happen, the downside, I mean, people are coming from Australia, right?
The downside to this is that there'd be angry people, I suppose, if nothing happened.
And then again, you know, I'm going to qualify this by saying a lot of my audience is out there, I know that, and they know what they're doing.
They know what a satellite looks like crossing the sky.
They know what an airplane looks like.
They know what navigation lights look like.
They know what the space shuttle, should it come over, would look like.
All of that.
So, you know, the majority of the crowd is going to be able to delineate between an event of that sort and the kind of event that Kruskan is talking about.
So I've really thought hard about this.
I can't figure out what he's doing, why he's doing it.
Seems the immediate downside is pretty heavy if he's wrong.
And, you know, we've got, what, an hour and 35 minutes or so to find out whether he's right or wrong.
The president gave a speech tonight, and I started to, you know, that I just told you about the combining of the agencies.
And I just started, I took a few calls during the news at the top of the hour, and one of them said the same thing that several of my emails said.
So I thought I would bring this gentleman on, and there you are, sir, you're on.
So during the president's speech, which I did not see about the combining of the agencies and Homeland Security and all the rest of it, you're claiming you saw a UFO.
unidentified
Yeah, I think, I don't know if it started during the middle of the speech, but behind his sort of right shoulder coming out from behind his head was sort of a white glowing sphere, and it kept sort of changing shape, as UFOs are known to do.
And when I replayed the tape, because I recorded it, as soon as my wife and I saw that, I just like, my jaw dropped.
You see, you could actually do a snap of that and send us a photograph.
So somebody out there will have taped the President or will get it and do a snap for us and send it to us and we'll get a picture of it up there.
How about that?
unidentified
Yeah, I mean, that's great.
There was actually two, though.
One of them, there was the big one that was on the sort of right side of his ear, but one shot up from behind the trees and it just sort of flickered in and off and went past the other one.
As soon as everybody started, well, not everybody, as soon as five or ten people started seeing things, Daniel said he was with two girls, and he said, well, we can gather the kids and go home now.
She was outside, and I wasn't looking at the webcam at that time, so I don't know if it caught any of it.
But look, we're going to continue for the next few minutes anyway to take calls only from people who are out there in the Kreskin area or were with the Cruscan group.
Well, I was in the show, and of the 500 people in the showroom, he dismissed about 200 and kept 300, pulled them down to the front of the stage and did a little extra with us.
You say he dismissed a couple hundred from the audience, kept about 300, and did what?
unidentified
He actually, I don't think I would call it hypnosis.
I wouldn't call it a trance.
I wouldn't even call it a suggestion.
But he did some of the close your eyes and hold your arm out in front of you, straight, rigid, and now you're unable to put it down and visualize a circle in your palm.
You know, it sounds like they were airplanes, and it sounds like they're exactly the same thing my wife saw coming from this side, you know, as she pointed out in the San Francisco flight path, and that there were four of them, but they were definitely airplanes.
So there's obviously going to be local television coverage and that sort of thing, and we'll see how they report it.
But based on talking with those of you that were on the scene so far, it looks like fooy to me.
I would say, I mean, they had police control, everything out here.
The only thing that I've seen, which was on a satellite pattern, however, the only thing that I saw was a very green light, but it took the same pattern as a satellite, but it was very bright green.
But we did have somebody who was in our group, and she does claim to see it, and we're going to have her talk about it on out there tomorrow or Sunday night.
But none of us saw it, and there were like 30 of us together.
Yeah, I saw four flares over POTESI at different positions over POTESI, and you could tell they were flares because they went up, and they were orange, and then they faded right out the way flares do.
A man claiming to have worked out at a test site designated S4, which is part of the Groom Lake test site, came forward to tell his remarkable story to local Las Vegas news anchor George Knapp.
I'll bet you George Knapp was out there at the Crescent Affair tonight with cameras.
The man was Robert S. Lazar.
Bob never claimed to have made contact with, worked with, or has ever seen any aliens at S4.
But he did claim to have worked on a revolutionary propulsion system, seen saucer-shaped craft in a hangar built into the side of the mountain, and witnesses live trials, had witnessed live trials of a man flying disc.
His story made headlines around the world, brought hundreds of thousands of people to the desert, spawned a multi-million dollar publishing and merchandising circus, and shook up a country to the core of its beliefs.
It is worth noting that for nearly 15 years now, Bob Lazar has never tried to embellish his story, change it, and neither the U.S. military nor the government has ever denied any of it to be true.
Bob Lazar, the man behind The Legend of Area 51, as the center of a massive U.S. government cover-up surrounding craft alien spacecraft, has recently signed a deal with U.K.-based Blue Book Films to finally bring his unique story to the screen.
And this is a man who does not do interviews.
He's even worse than I am.
I mean, he's very shy, probably somewhat reclusive.
Initially, Columbia Pictures wanted to do a movie some years back, and they hired a writer and spent somewhere around $400,000 to pay this guy to write the story.
And, you know, essentially, it's just a chronological list of events that you're going to have to form into a movie.
However, writers want to get creative.
Oh, yeah, of course.
And, you know, this guy turned it into a James Bond story.
There were actual scenes of the guy playing Bob Lazar running on the tops of cars that were parked on Las Vegas Boulevard and the silhouette of the erupting volcano in the background.
And they had robots holding me underground, trying to drown me to stop me from talking.
I mean, some real ridiculous stuff.
And, you know, my point is, if you're going to go make up a story about flying saucers, don't bother using my name.
Just go ahead and make up a story.
But if it's going to be accurate to the facts, then it has to be accurate to the facts.
I understand.
There has to be a little glitter put in it somewhere to make the story flow or whatever makes Hollywood happy.
The thing is, though, that the real story itself is so compelling.
Or have we gone so far into the world of science fiction that as compelling as your story is, and it's an incredible story, it's not enough for the screen without embellishment?
Los Alamos, I believe I was there only a couple years before I realized that, you know, hey, I could make a lot more money on my own just operating as a contractor and consulting for the lab as opposed to working for them.
Specifically, alpha radiation detection, which is the type of particles given off by plutonium.
And Los Alamos, making bombs and that sort of thing has a lot of plutonium laying around, so they want to be able to detect even minute particles that may cling to clothing, so on and so forth.
And we were awarded a government contract about four years in a row, and things were great.
I did still go down to the lab a lot because I knew people there.
And one day there was a local Los Alamos newspaper called The Monitor.
And, you know, at the time I was building all kinds of strange projects and was really into building things with jet engines in them and built race cars.
And I even built a little Honda passenger car that had a jet engine in it.
how in god's name do you So you could drive the car around normally and then push a lever and the license plate would open up, exposing the nozzle to the jet.
You could fire that up and take off at high speed.
And they had put that on, I think it's the June 82 front page of the monitor newspaper.
And, you know, if you know how jet engines, turbojet engines and the like work, generally that's real confusing because you need some moving parts in there to make things go.
Well, the high-speed run was done at El Mirage Dry Lake in California.
And the car was pretty much retired after that because it was a unibody construction, and the whole car started pretty much bending from all the forces.
But, I mean, the only reason I brought up the whole jet car thing was that...
Right now, I think the oil companies imagine hydrogen is fine because they'll use fossil fuels to put the hydrogen, to create the hydrogen and get it in the cells.
You still have to use energy to make energy, right?
You're defeating the whole purpose of using hydrogen.
Water is H2O.
Now, you know, every school kid knows you take a glass of water, you know, add just a drop of salt in there to get the ions moving around, and take a 12-volt battery and put the positive and negative leads in there, you see one lead let off a little bit of bubbles and the other lead lets off twice as much bubbles.
Well, the lead with twice as much bubbles is the H2 and the O2 is coming off the other one.
So just running a little electricity through water gives you a flammable gas the way to make hydrogen.
cracked the hydrogen out of water and during the night it was pressurized using the available water pressure into the hydrogen tanks which contained an iron titanium hydride it's kind of a granular substance that absorbs hydrogen like a sponge soaks up water as opposed to just compressing a tank with hydrogen which is a dangerous
No, once it's chemically stored in the hydride, you can shoot incendiary bullets at the tank, and it just does nothing but smolder.
The way the setup that I came up with is that the car radiator fluid heats an outer jacket on the tank, and when the hydride heats up, it evolves hydrogen, and it gets into the carburetor.
So there's never more than the volume of hydrogen that fits in the tube from the tank to the carburetor or fuel injection system.
And, you know, the beauty of the system is you can convert any existing piston car to run on hydrogen.
But you just need to retard the timing because hydrogen burns so much faster.
The flamethrower just flashes through the cylinders and it'll cause detonation or knocking.
But with a couple minor modifications, any car can run on it.
And you do lose a little horsepower because there's a difference between spraying a flammable gas in there as opposed to having a liquid hydrocarbon with all that carbon energy in there.
Somebody was hoping you'd post the process for the creation of hydrogen on some website somewhere or something.
Well, they'll have to dig back in the archives and listen.
All right, so now how did you get involved, if you can remember the first moment or the first contact that anybody made with you regarding Area 51 and S4 and all that stuff over here?
Well, this is the reason why I brought up the jet car initially.
That day, in June 82, the front page of the Los Alamos Monitor newspaper Had a picture of me and the jet car on it.
And on the flip side of the front page, there's an announcement there that Edward Teller, father of the hydrogen bomb, was going to be giving a lecture down at one of the lecture halls at the lab.
And I was anxious to hear the lecture.
So thinking there were going to be lots of people there, I got there really early.
Because at the time, I was still working for the lab.
But in either case, I got to the lecture hall real early.
And as it turned out, there was nobody there.
And now I'm kind of waiting around.
About 15 minutes goes by.
And I see Ed Teller sitting on a little wall outside the hall reading the front page of the newspaper, which I thought was a perfect segue for me to introduce myself because, you know, he's sitting there reading about me.
And it's a feeling you get speaking to most of the older scientists and physicists at almost every lab I've seen.
You can't present them with anything new that they didn't think of first.
You know, they're scientists.
They're supposed to be open-minded and explore new ideas and things, but there is nobody as closed-minded as a scientist or physicist that's been in the business for over a decade.
In fact, those are the guys that, in fact, Edinger, who's the E in EGNG, is the guy, I think, that invented the flash, the xenon flash bulb or high-speed flash photography, something like that.
Because EGNG started out as the company that came up with a way to photograph the atomic tests, which was really difficult.
In fact, I was just told the other day by a movie studio executive that all those old cameras found their way into most of the motion picture companies now.
And they use them for special effects, all those atomic bomb cameras.
I just, you know, give up and walk away for a while.
Yeah, I know.
But I assume what they were doing was just they knew of my work at Los Alamos and the other things I was doing, and they just assumed that it fit the bill.
Right, and as it turned out, this all had to do with security, as I found out later.
But I went home.
I wasn't that thrilled about the interview, and it was several days later I got a call back, and they said, you know, as it turned out, we felt you were overqualified for the job we were offering, and we're pretty sure you would become bored with it after a while.
However, there is something else that we have.
It's at a re I'm trying to remember verbatim what they said.
I believe it's at a remote site on the test site, so you will have to fly out there.
We have here in Parump, it's kind of interesting, the test site that doesn't exist.
We have every morning, they may have stopped it now, but up at the VFW Lodge up the street from me here, they have a parking lot at VFW Lodge, and they have buses at about, I don't know, like four or something in the morning, a little bit before five in the morning, and on the side of the bus it says Area 51.
Well, they had me come down for an interview that was a little more in-depth that time, and I did very well.
And they would say it would, or they told me that it was going to be fairly heavy security, and it was going to be working on an advanced propulsion system.
And I thought, that's great.
This is exactly what I want to do.
Here's the guy that's tinkering around with jets and running on hydrogen.
I mean, propulsion was my thing.
It's stuff I even played around with when I was at home.
And I was under the impression that this was going to be a field propulsion system for some new fighter aircraft, a field propulsion system like some sort of electromagnetic drive, something that uses some of the basic forces of repulsion and attraction, whether it's extremely high voltage or who knows what.
In fact, thinking back, I probably almost remember there were some silly stories about aliens working out there and whatnot.
And, you know, I was a hardcore non-UFO believer.
I mean, I thought all that stuff was absolutely ridiculous, and the people that believed it were even more ridiculous.
So I didn't pay much attention to any of that stuff.
But I think I did hear, you know, on KLS-TV or something, or one of George Knapp's interviews with John Lear or something like that, that there were aliens working up there or eating people or whatever the story was about.
Even when I had a house full of people over, guests having a little get-together, there would just be guys knocking at the door and would just show themselves in and start looking through the house.
And, you know, lots of people witnessed this stuff going on.
And it began to really interfere with my life.
Shortly after the investigation started, they allowed me out to the site.
Now, they didn't start handing over everything or showing me everything.
The job was not something like on 9 to 5 or every day at 7 o'clock to be there.
You were almost on call initially, and somebody would call from EG ⁇ G, and the phone call would go exactly like this.
You pick up the phone and they say, hello, Mr. Lazar.
It is now 4.43 p.m.
We expect you to be at the installation at 6.25.
It was always an odd number.
And that's it.
And they hang up the phone.
It's very strange.
But every time I went out there, I pick up the phone, they tell me what the current time was, and they tell me what the time they expected me out there was.
In fact, we weren't really allowed to wander around or anything at Groom.
We just sat there, waited either at the cafeteria or right where we were for the bus if it wasn't there, and it drove us down south to S4, which is a short drive on a dirt road.
You know, of course, they don't admit any of that even exists out there, but there are now zillions of photographs, courtesy of the Russians, and other satellites and even planes that have been nearby.
There's a lot of photographs of Area 51, so we all know it's out there, and we all know the runway's there, despite what they say.
A lot of people even disputed the road that I talked about and said, no, it's impossible for it to be there.
And John Andrews, the guy that worked for the Tester Model Corporation that was so into all of this, he's the one that came up, you know, that tried to buy the satellite photograph from the U.S. government, and they wouldn't sell it to him because they said it's classified.
And he's the one that bought it from the Russians for $1,500.
This is a man who worked where the real saucers are.
Or were.
I guess I could be probably inspired.
But when he was there, he got to actually work on alien aircraft.
back engineering alien aircraft this is coast
unidentified
it is night my body's weak I'm on the run no time to sleep I've got to ride right like the wind to be free again and I've got such a long way to go again, Bob Lazar.
Well, the first time I went down there was essentially to read.
I was brought into a small room at the facility they had there, and these, well, I guess you'd just call them briefings, because they were just an overview of some of the other satellite projects going on going on that were connected to what I was doing.
Right, because just like they do at Los Alamos or any other national lab where you work on high-security systems and subsystems, is they compartmentalize everything.
And what they do is they have people working on different aspects of one project, so nobody really knows how the whole thing connects together.
Well, some people do, but for the most part, most of the people working on it only work on a specific module, a specific subsystem, and somebody else worries about what it connects to.
And that way, your knowledge about what's going on is limited just to the thing you worked on.
Even though it became pretty obvious, that's what was going on initially.
I began reading what the people had done before me, and immediately they're talking science fiction about power sources that put out tremendous amounts of energy at propulsion systems with technology that doesn't even exist.
And you begin to wonder if these guys are just testing you in some way and this is just a joke or what.
Well, John Andrews and I spent some time working on that, and he brought some people down from the model division so we could scale things up by trying to guess my distance from it and looking at objects that I knew approximately what the size was.
So they could crunch all the numbers through and figure out within a fairly good estimate how big the craft was.
Because you were talking about the atomic bomb earlier in Teller.
And they had the same arguments in the development of the atomic bomb that they weren't allowed to sit around and throw ideas back and forth and that it was holding the whole damn project up.
Well, in one of the briefings, they said information gained from the craft, and they really didn't say how, but that the craft came from the Zeta Reticuli star system, which is apparently a binary star system that you can only see from the southern hemisphere.
and we'll get to that but did you these this portion of the propulsion system or the main portion of the propulsion system do you remember what your initial impression How much are you unable to talk about or unwilling to talk about or will get in trouble for talking about?
Is there anything that you hold back, that you have to hold back?
And on both sides of the fence, though, I mean, you have people that will swear up and down, you know, I never lived in Los Alamos.
I never worked there or who knows what.
But on the other side of the fence, you also have people that, just because they want to support me, say that, yeah, I was a security guard or something there, and I saw Bob going to work every day.
Well, you know, both of those people don't help because neither of them are true.
And, you know, as much as I appreciate the help from people that say stuff like that, it really doesn't help because all it does is confuse matters.
And, you know, this field of UFO research or whatever they call it these days is so inundated with garbage and just ridiculous stories, you do not need to add even 1% more because it's impossible for anybody to take anything seriously.
Well, the first thing I saw that was absolutely mind-boggling, and I will never forget it, was the reactor operating.
Now, this is something very small, probably on a base 12 or 15 inches square with about a basketball size sphere on top.
Well, semi-sphere.
It's the basketball setting on the plate.
This was the reactor for the craft.
This produced a tremendous amount of energy, and also it was the source of the gravitational propulsion system, where it got its basic gravity wave from that they amplify.
Now, these are, you know, we know what the effects of gravity are, but we cannot produce gravity or any gravity.
You know, I've spoken to a lot of people, and I ask people, you know, that you see in NASA training films astronauts floating around.
And, you know, that's all done in that large plane that they put into a crash dive and people go weightless inside.
You know, the majority of people I've spoken to, even people that seem fairly knowledgeable to me, think that NASA has an anti-gravity device in this room where they just turn it on and people float around.
Now, if we had something like that, there wouldn't be airplanes anymore.
Cars would fly.
I mean, the world would be changed.
We don't have a machine that can make gravity, because if you do, you can also control time.
So if we had something like that, the world would be so different.
Well, like I was describing, the first time I saw it operating, all he had to do was put the lid, the semi-sphere, on top of this device, and it became operational.
And he said, just put your hand on the top of it.
And when I did, I could not touch it.
It was the exact sensation of taking two like pole magnets and trying to push them together.
and what did your body you and your buddy discuss at that point i mean you obviously ask questions or he offered information or he just said And I mean, you could see it in his eyes.
So once this pipe is placed upon the hemisphere, the field completely disappears.
So that's giving you evidence that it's now traveling through the waveguide.
The waveguide goes to another extremely large tube, probably about two feet in diameter, four feet long, and has plates, I guess is the best way I can describe it on the outside.
Well, this is actually the emitter, the gravity emitter.
There's something in between the two, which is the actual amplifier.
However, if I can take one second and just step back to the hydrogen thing, the only reason I'm saying this is because, I guess because of the show, there are a million people hitting the United Nuclear, my United Nuclear website and asking about, asking me to post some kind of instructions about.
Anyway, the way it was configured was supplying the basic wave, the basic gravitational wave, to the amplifier and to the emitter.
In the craft, there are three emitters in a triad pattern.
And what I found interesting is, you know, after being involved with the project, that kind of made me start looking into UFO stories to see what's true and what's not.
And there were so many stories, especially Rasha Belgian sightings in the early 90s, I think, or middle 90s, where they saw on the bottom of the craft three bright spots of light.
And that is exactly how this operated.
Another interesting thing was, I know I'm jumping ahead of myself here, but the other craft that were there all had the same power and propulsion system in it.
Yeah, which I found really interesting in itself, which means that whatever a civilization made these, it's almost as if there's, you know, it sounds crazy, but a factory that's producing these and subbing out the propulsion systems for different models of crafts.
When he fired that up, he took an ordinary candle and put it probably about six feet in back of the emitter.
And I was waiting for things to get started, but he really didn't do anything, at least that I saw, and went over and looked at the candle, and the flame was no longer flickering.
Out at a certain point, which is the focal point, on a good dish, it's about the size of a quarter or even smaller.
That's what's called the focal point, where all the energy from that satellite dish is radiated right to that little tiny spot, and that's where they put the collector or the LNA or LNB to get the signal.
And that's a focal point.
So you're saying just like that, at the focal point, but out in the middle of nothing, in the middle of air, there was a black dot.
And he was demonstrating the fact that the device was bending light away from the area.
I mean, it was a completely black dot.
Later to find out, well, again, I don't want to jump ahead of myself.
But anyway, there were a couple small demonstrations like that that were extremely impressive.
And, you know, this is what we were supposed to be working on.
And, you know, our mission was really not just to find out how it worked, but the aim of the project was to see if these systems and subsystems can be duplicated with earthly materials.
When these engines, for lack of a better word, were running, was there any audible noise?
You were there in the room.
I mean, other than the test of putting your hand up, was there anything that hit your sensory system that you could describe when these things were running?
On the test setup in the room, it was completely silent.
I wasn't even sure if the thing was operating.
However, during the test flight of the craft, with all three amplifiers operating, there was a definite hiss and corona discharge on the bottom of the craft.
Now, do you know, you say there were three emitters on each craft.
Do you know offhand how these emitters in flight were manipulated to, for example, leave the ground and then begin propulsion that would take you horizontal or vertical or wherever you wanted to go?
Omicron is using a single amplifier to move the craft, and Delta uses all three amplifiers.
Whenever a craft is near another gravitational source, such as the planet or whatever, it's only using one amplifier to lift itself off the ground.
The amplifiers are these, you know, like I said, or I keep using the word amplifier, the emitters are these four foot long, two foot diameter pieces of pipe, essentially, held by a two or two and a half foot, three inch diameter flexible pipe.
And these hang in the bottom of the craft.
One of them points down, and it produces a gravitational wave that will lift the craft off the ground.
The other two are swung almost horizontally.
So in the bottom of the craft, they're really pointing out in front of it.
Now, most vehicles and aircraft that we're used to either accelerate hot gas out the back or use a propeller and throw air out the back and the craft moves forward.
These do the exact opposite.
And my best analogy for it is the old rubber sheet or the bed.
If you take a bowling ball and stick it in the middle of your bed, and in front of the bowling ball, about two feet, take your fist and just push it deep into the bed.
The craft is standing using one gravity emitter, standing on a gravitational wave, and they're using the other two essentially to make a little divot, a gravity well in front of the craft.
When they do the vertical lift, I wonder how, of course, I don't understand how that energy is distributed, but I wonder how the craft is stable as it goes vertical.
And look, people should understand that not just your word tonight, but thousands and thousands of people have gone to, you know, as close as they can get to Area 51, and they have seen, there's a million eyewitnesses that have seen craft being tested over the years, those years so that a lot of witnesses to what you're saying right now about how they all
Well, I was perfectly content with the way things were going.
You know, once you're on the inside, it's a different state of mind.
And, you know, if you're on the outside of something, you know, hey, it's not fair.
We all should have this information, so on and so forth.
But, you know, you get kind of a change of attitude.
Once you become privy to the information, you go, You know, those guys don't deserve to know anyway.
But that does change after a while.
And the impetus really had nothing to do with me initially.
Remember, they were still going through all my security, whatnot, whatever they do to it goes on.
Yeah, I mean, they do everything in there.
They're very concerned about your mental state because that, you know, if a person is very depressed or despondent or something like that, it's going to affect their work performance, and especially if they're trusting them with very important secrets, there's going to be a problem.
And, you know, at that time, they stopped calling me out and I kind of began to get a little concerned.
And this is when I had the flight schedule and brought a few of my friends out at the time, including my wife, and showed them what I was doing at night.
And they all saw that.
And in fact, we got away with it the first night.
And we got a little greedy and went a couple other times.
And we were standing there, you know, out close to Area 51 in the absolute black desert where you couldn't see your hand in front of your face.
Now, we had been staying there about half an hour.
And my friend Gene and I were sitting there joking about, well, maybe we should just take the base by force and, you know, just saying ridiculous things like that.
Now, little did we know that the security guys had snuck up on us, and they were no more than six feet from our noses.
because these guys could have just wandered out there and been looking at what's going on, but if they saw somebody from the inside there, I took off into the desert.
No, the second they heard my name, the second he read the license, they said, let everybody go.
And it was the following day when I got called in, and Dennis, who was the security supervisor at the time, drove to my house, and we went down there in my car, and that's when it really hit the fan.
And, you know, kind of to make a long story short, they were pissed, to say the least.
This Dennis called me, who was my security supervisor at the time, called me personally and came to my house, which was very unusual.
And then we both drove down in the same car to Indian Springs, which is an auxiliary Air Force base in this little town, which is the base is essentially shut down.
But I guess some of it remains operational.
In any case, that's where they took me.
And that's when they started the debriefing.
The first thing they brought up was, of course, tremendous breach in security.
And they wanted to know everybody that I had told anything to, why I went ahead and did it.
And I was pretty straightforward with them, but they tried to be as intimidating as possible.
A lot of stories have flown around about what happened, Bob, after that.
For example, you know, we have the mutual friend of John Lear, who now, by the way, doesn't talk about any of this anymore, doesn't want any publicity.
You can't blame him.
He's lost some jobs.
He's back working.
He's doing fine, and he doesn't want to talk about this anymore.
I think John's rave now is about the dump up there at Yucca Mountain, about the nuke waste dump.
That's the one thing I agree with, with John Lear, is, you know, I know everyone in Las Vegas doesn't want it there, but if you're going to put it anywhere in the country, why not put it where you've already exploded 100 atomic bombs?
It's already a wasteland, you know, at that part of the test site.
Anyway, listen, there was a big controversy about something called Element 115, which was said to be some kind of fuel, an element we don't have now on Earth, that was the fuel or the what?
And I'm sure eventually they'll synthesize it somehow.
They use, instead of bombarding it with neutrons now, they use this new fusion technique where they fuse the nuclei of two other elements together, which is kind of an odd way to do it.
But it's got, I think the heavy ion, the lab for heavy ion research in Darmstadt, Germany, has pioneered most of the new heavy elements.
And, you know, mark my words, they're going to be the guys that synthesize 115.
If I recall, that was the day Barry and I were working in the lab, and Dennis came in and he said, come on out, there's a test flight.
So there was a flight scheduled, and they were allowing me to see it.
And we went from the lab out into the first hangar, which was the only one I ever saw open.
And as I went out there, the craft was already outside the hangar and sitting on the ground.
I don't know if they rolled it out, it flew out or whatever.
But as I was walking through the empty hangar, I looked to the right and there are big bay doors in between the hangars.
And they were all open.
And I could see all the craft lined up.
So they had an outright collection of these things.
Anyway, the craft was outside and there was a guy sitting near the door with what I surmised was an ordinary VHF radio.
And this is something that to this day really bothers me because it should be, if this is a gravity-propelled craft which is bending and distorting all forms of electromagnetic radiation around it and whatnot, it should be impossible to communicate with the thing.
Well, it's hard to say it was designed for something small, because certainly a five and a half or six foot person is hunched over in all but the very center of the craft.
And on this particular craft, the hump on the top or the dome on the saucer, whatever you want to call it, it's not round.
It's kind of flat on the top.
There were these black portals.
I believe there were four, if I remember correctly.
And there weren't windows.
They were, from what I surmise, is they were some sort of planar sensor.
So the craft could get its orientation in space or wherever it was, where it could, you know, these would detect positions of stars or something like that, so it can get a fix on its orientation and where it is, where it's going, and that sort of thing.
between you and your buddy or anybody else that you ever talked to up at s4 were there any discussions of beings i mean it would be a That was the term they coined.
You know, I used this analogy probably the last time I was on your show.
And, you know, if you took an ordinary modern-day motorcycle and just transported it back in time to the 1800s, to the wagon train days, and just left it out front, in the morning everybody woke up and discovered it there with the keys in it.
Now they can poke around and prod with it and play with it, you know, and eventually they're going to figure out how to start it just out of sheer luck.
And it's going to start and it's going to run and they'll be proficient at driving it as long as they keep playing with it.
Well, yeah, but they'll pick it up and they're pretty tough and go on.
And when it runs out of gas, it'll never work again.
It'll sit there.
However, when it comes to duplicating it, if they wanted to make one, they couldn't even make the plastic fender on the thing because that material is just amazing to them.
Right?
I mean, you know, polypropylene or something like that.
They just look at it and go, wow, it's solid, but it bends and it melts.
You know, they couldn't even make a fender or a turn signal on the thing.
I'm Art Bell, and this, of course, is Coast to Coast AM Raging Throughout the Nighttime with Bob Lazar tonight.
You're hearing what you've never heard before.
unidentified
I can see her lying back in her satin dress In a room where you do what you don't confess Someday on your bed or take care If I find you've been creeping around up at stairs Someday on your bed or take care If I find you've been creeping around up
And, you know, that's information I wasn't privy to.
I would love to know, too.
Was this, you know, you hear so many stories in UFO lore about an alleged exchange of technology.
You know, did this actually occur?
And I've heard people say, well, you know, we know there are crash retrievals.
We have inside information.
And you can't tell me that somebody came from 30 light years and nine different advanced craft and they all crashed.
It just, it's not possible.
So, you know, I could certainly see the Roswell crash occurring, but I just don't believe that flying saucers come here from a tremendous difference and they just miscalculate the weather conditions and they wind up crashing all over the place.
In other words, did you ever have an opportunity to see anybody attempting to lift or move any of these craft, getting an idea of the kind of weight they were trying to move?
The only thing that caught my eye in relation to weight was above the craft, in the hangar, there was one of those suspension cranes with a hook on it, and it was rated at 10 tons because they had that in big bold lettering on the side.
So that makes me think, well, if they in fact use that to move the craft, it weighs less than 10 tons.
That's about as far as I can go on that.
But I've heard people make comments that, you know, actually they only weigh a few pounds.
But I don't think that could possibly be true.
Number one is, you know, at different times moving into the craft, you're sitting on the extreme edge of it, and it would certainly teeter.
Plus the amount of equipment they had moved into the craft, lights and whatnot, for investigation of it, it makes me think it's something of some pretty sizable weight.
Bob, you know, a lot of the interesting news stories I get about world affairs and maybe wars between India and Pakistan, all the rest of it, they come from the United Kingdom, which I think is embarrassing.
It annoys me that I've got to get news I can't get here from the UK.
Your movie is going to be made in the United Kingdom.
Are you going to have any input at all during the production of this movie?
I imagine I would be put in a position as technical consultant at the very least, you know, if they want it to progress in an accurate, truthful fashion.
And I believe that Bruce did go over that already.
Bob, you have a list of names which you've revealed tonight of the other people that were there.
You're speaking right now, I'm certain, to many of those names.
And they're listening to you right now.
What would you say to them at this point?
I mean, you're out in the public, and your story has been hanging out there now for a lot of years, and now it's going to be even more public with a movie.
What do you say to the other people that were up there, given a chance, which you have right now, to say something to them?
You would think maybe by now some of them would have gone through a thought process that would bring them to the point where they'd be ready to be in contact with you and maybe others.
Tensions got pretty high, so I just looked for a place I could stay other than my house because I had no idea what was going on.
And the decision was made to go do that.
And in fact, George broke in more or less.
It was at the top of the 5 o'clock news in Las Vegas.
And I went on in silhouette and said what was going on.
And, you know, certainly if anything would have happened to me from that point on, it would have cast everything in stone and said, hey, you know, this guy said so-and-so.
And, you know, it looks like it was true.
If he was just a nutcase, what would you bother killing him for?
Well, they didn't erase you, but they kind of erased part of your employment histories and as much information as they could about your history with them, right?
In fact, Bob Exler was one of the guys that did the research, and I think he was a NASA systems specialist and now, well, I don't know about now, but then, you know, was pretty heavy into UFO investigation.
And he had some contacts down at the IRS.
So I let him have all the information.
My W-2 form from there, you know, with Naval Intelligence and Social Security number, and, you know, he went after everything.
And from the IRS, he got notified that information regarding my Social Security number is classified, that the numbers, the employer designation numbers on my W-2 form were for I forgot what bizarre government agency, but they were valid.
And I mean he did bring up a lot of good information and it ran into a lot of block walls that were completely inaccessible.
Even your history of Los Alamos was somewhat erased, although I'm remembering that you came away or somebody came away with your name on an employment list or a phone list from Los Alamos.
You know, Ed Mitchell made an interesting comment to me.
I did.
I've done many interviews with Ed, and one question that seemed to really stump him was, Ed, do you remember what was it like walking around on the moon?
And he said, you know, it's really strange.
I just don't remember that many details of the whole thing.
He said, I obviously remember it, but there are some details that strangely are missing.
If they came back to you and they said, you know, with all the water that's gone onto the bridge, Bob, we've made a lot of progress.
We'd like to take you up there and show you how much we've done, how far we've come, impossible as this is, if they came to you with that and said, however, there are going to be a million conditions and more security checks and blah, blah, blah, would you be able to turn that down?
And again, this is just a written satellite briefing of the project.
So whether or not that's true or not, you know, I cannot stand up to that fact.
But it is possible because the other things that I read in the briefings that I did get hands-on experience with are accurate and true.
So I don't have any reason to disbelieve it, but because I don't know it for a fact, it just kind of sits in that special place in my mind where it possibly might not be true.
But again, you know, why throw a lie in there if we're trying to get all this work done and find out what the basis is of this thing?
The origin of it may have something to do with the operation of it.
So I don't think they would have taken the opportunity to lie about it there.
Now, knowing what you know about the drive systems, you said you referred, I think, earlier to some of the Belgian sightings.
When you consider all the UFO sightings, and I'm sure you've seen a million pictures and moving video now of UFOs and all the rest of it, you think the Belgian sightings were perhaps accurate with what you know about the drive systems.
Have you seen any other film or stills of UFOs that look like the real McCoy to you?
Because once I started looking into it, now I don't research this stuff anymore, and I get a lot of people asking me UFO questions.
And actually, believe it or not, it doesn't interest me.
I liked being involved in the project, but I don't look into UFO stories or research this stuff.
But when I did, when I said the craft operate in two modes, the Omicron and Delta configuration, when it's transitioning from Omicron to Delta, the way the craft flies through in space is belly first, not flying horizontal like you see in a science fiction movie.
And as the craft leave the ground in Omicron mode, they perform a roll maneuver where the craft raises, and eventually you see it at a 45-degree angle, and then it becomes straight up and down 180 degrees.
The amplifiers come up to power, they focus on a point, and the craft flies belly first at the target.
And you see a lot of UFO photographs here and there with crafts ascending in the sky at a 45-degree angle, but flying up, or sitting at odd angles in the sky.
And at least from what I can guess from the photographs, if they in fact are genuine, it looks like the craft are transitioning from one moat to another.
Yeah, if it has something that clicks somewhere, but, you know, these days, boy, you just take a picture into Adobe Photoshop and, you know, you can make anything.