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June 6, 2002 - Art Bell

02:31:06

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Area 51 and UFOs - Bob Lazar

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Time	Text
	Music playing.
	From the high desert and the great American southwest, I bid you all good evening, good
	afternoon, good morning, whatever the case may be, wherever you are, whatever part of
	the world you're in, since we cover just about all of it with a program called Coast to Coast
	and Good Morning.
	Good evening, depending on where you are.
	I'm, uh, in the evening place.
	It's now about 7 minutes after 10 o'clock.
	7 after 10, uh, coming up on 7 after 10, uh, Pacific Time right now.
	And, I don't know where to begin tonight with the mundane news or the... You know, we're in this window.
	We're in the Kreskin window.
	I guess I might as well begin here, huh?
	Kreskin, as you know, has made a prediction that there's going to be the biggest UFO sighting of the century.
	Or maybe of a century, I'm not sure.
	Tonight.
	Now.
	Soon.
	The window for it began at 9.50 p.m., and as I said, we're at 10.07 and 30 seconds, and that'll tell you how long a delay there is from my voice to your reception, you know, with the delays and such.
	In fact, let's try that just for fun.
	If you're watching the clock, you'll be able to tell how much delay time there is.
	There's a built-in six or seven second delay, and then there's satellite time.
	Uh, for my voice to get to your voice.
	Uh, so we're coming up on, uh, 10.08, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, mark.
	10.08.
	Uh, so that'll give you some idea now.
	Uh, he said again, uh, that, uh, between 9.50 and between midnight, so from now until midnight, there's going to be the biggest UFO sighting, uh, in a century or in this century.
	There is actually a pretty big difference.
	And we're in that window.
	So if you want to go... Here's what I've done.
	If you want to go to my website, and I hope we don't bring it down.
	I really hope we don't bring it down.
	If you want to go to my website, Artbell.com, instead of the usual webcam that I've got there, I have a video camera hooked up to a third-generation night vision scope.
	Pretty wild stuff, huh?
	I've had that for several years.
	And so I've got it pointed at Las Vegas, and I want to explain to you what you're going to see.
	And it's taking a picture.
	It's snapping a picture every minute.
	Now, in between those minutes, should I see something, say, spectacular, you know, whatever, I could snap an instant picture.
	And I want to explain to you, as you take a look at it, what you're going to see, if you want to look.
	Otherwise, all you're going to see is... Okay, here's the picture.
	On the far left, you're going to see part of a tree.
	Then you're going to see two telephone poles.
	Vertical telephone poles.
	And they're lit up quite brightly, of course, because... Oh, I don't know why.
	There's some light on them, or whatever, and night vision is extremely sensitive.
	And then you're going to see a tree on the right.
	And the area in the middle of that, between the two phone poles and the tree, you're going to see kind of a glow.
	You're going to see a glow.
	And that glow is Las Vegas, Nevada, 65 miles away from me.
	So that's the glow you see between the phone poles and the tree.
	That's Las Vegas and Nevada.
	You're also probably going to see some stars.
	There's not that many stars, but you're going to see some stars in the photograph as well.
	There's many more fruitful areas of the sky if we wanted to look at stars with night vision.
	I could do that, but we're seeing a substantial portion of the skies immediately above Las Vegas, Nevada, from Pahrump, Nevada, west of Las Vegas.
	So, should anything really spectacular occur in this time period, I think that I would see it.
	I'm going to try and keep my eyes on it.
	It's kind of hypnotic.
	I'm watching it in real time while you get a snap of it every minute.
	Ask on my website if you have, if you feel like looking.
	Pretty cool.
	What I've done is I've reduced the color saturation, which I can do on the computer, and what that does is pull all of the green out of it.
	You know, night vision is normally green, and this would be, except I pulled the saturation out so that you have a night vision, black and white picture.
	From about 65 miles away.
	And again, that glow between the two phone poles and the tree, that's Las Vegas through a mountain pass.
	So, we'll see.
	I mean, from here we may see nothing.
	Or, you know, I may be pointed at the wrong place in the sky, but I figured with the prediction the way it is, Best bet, point toward Las Vegas.
	So you've got some ground references.
	Again, let me give it to you one more time.
	A tree on the left.
	Sometimes you'll see a car go by.
	Don't let that, you know, it's extremely bright.
	Then there's two telephone poles.
	And then there's a glow, an area, kind of a glowing area between the phone poles and the tree on the right.
	And that is Las Vegas.
	That is light from Las Vegas in the night sky here.
	Otherwise it is a clear night.
	You will see some Las Vegas air traffic.
	And you'll be able to discern that, I'm sure, by the fact that in one picture it's there and the next picture it's there, one minute apart, going either toward San Francisco or Seattle or back from.
	That would be the route that we'd be seeing in this portion of the sky.
	So I thought, what the hell, we'll put the webcam up and if anything really wild happens, maybe we'll get a shot of it.
	I'm prepared to snap one instantly if I see something happening.
	You know what the problem is, though?
	I'm going to have to look away.
	I just realized I've got other things going on, so I can't stare at that screen all the time.
	In fact, I'm going to have to look away.
	You know, I have commercials, I have news, I have stuff I have to do, so I can't sit here and stare at it all the time.
	There's a lot of anticipation out there, I know.
	In fact, here's kind of a side story for you.
	Stung by intelligence failures, our president tonight in a speech asked Congress to remake the government with uh... a terrorist fighting department of homeland security if it should uh... happen the president wants a new department would inherit a hundred and sixty nine thousand employees oh my god that's a lot of employees and a thirty seven point four billion dollar budget from the agencies that it would absorb now listen to this this agency would absorb the secret service
	The Coast Guard and the embattled Immigration and Customs Service.
	Congress welcomed the agency shuffling plan, even as lawmakers intensify their inquiry into lapses before the September 11 attacks.
	They're having this whistleblower hearing going on right now, and it's pretty compelling.
	They were really questioning this young lass very heavily.
	She sent in the infamous memo.
	So that would absorb quite a few ages.
	In other words, the Coast Guard, immigration and naturalization, customs, in other words, it would all be under one banner.
	That's very interesting.
	It would be under the banner of, you know, a terrorist something or another.
	And I wonder if, the only thing I wonder is whether some of the natural duties that these agencies perform that are important will get somehow changed or absorbed when they become more of a terrorist fighting agency.
	Homeland Security terrorist fighting agency.
	I don't know.
	Interesting.
	Yasser Arafat ridiculed suggestions that Israel just might exile him because of the unrelenting Palestinian attacks.
	Said he, expel me?
	I'll die here, he told reporters during a tour of his damaged headquarters on Thursday.
	Israeli tanks and giant bulldozers had away with part of it, the wall there.
	And it was kind of a wreck, and you know, every time something happens, why, they pull the tanks up to Mr. Arafat's door.
	Sort of.
	Oh, there goes a car.
	Now, see, if it happened to snap one during that, you would have seen an extremely bright light that might have fooled you.
	And that would have been a car.
	Headlight.
	You know, in night vision, they're extremely bright.
	Well, all right.
	At least you got a little reference in that photograph.
	And I hope it stays up.
	I hope you can see it.
	When on a rider, Ordered to stand trial on charges alleging she shoplifted some $6,000 worth of merchandise from TaxSafe Avenue.
	$6,000, my God!
	And possessed a drug without a prescription.
	And then her fans are, I guess, doing some kind of boycott or something.
	So... Wow.
	That's interesting, isn't it?
	Now here's something, I don't know, I'm kind of a fan of World Cup.
	I went to, my wife and I were in Paris for the last World Cup and you know, the French, they play a mean game of soccer, a real mean game of soccer and they're always in the top contenders, you know, they're right on up there, they're either going to win or they're going to be right up there.
	So, it's not so good this year.
	The French are in danger of becoming the first defending champions eliminated in the opening round of a World Cup since Brazil in 1966.
	The team followed their stunning 1-0 loss to World Cup newcomer Senegal.
	Ooh, that's embarrassing, huh?
	Uruguay tying them 0-0 on Thursday, leaving them on the verge of elimination.
	The French eliminated?
	Oh my God.
	Could it really happen?
	Would anybody really care?
	All right.
	In a moment, we'll come back now.
	I should tell you that I have sources.
	I understand there's a large... I want to hear from somebody in this hour.
	Bob Lazar is coming up next hour.
	I want to hear from somebody out with the crowd right now, and I want to hear how big this crowd is and where they are and that kind of stuff.
	Uh, everybody else, uh, just, uh, don't call right now.
	I know that there's a lot of people with Kreskin or, uh, wherever it is, I want to have a description of where you are.
	So everybody else hang up, please.
	Only if you have a cell phone and you are with the Kreskin crowd should you call this radio program right now.
	That's all I'm going to take.
	Uh, with the exception of one call here.
	Otherwise, uh, you, you had better be, uh, with the crowd when you call.
	Because I really want to hear what's going on, and I want to bring it to the nation as best I can.
	And the best way I can do that is to use you all as reporters, right?
	So that's the deal.
	Everybody else, I don't care what you have to say, hang up.
	Because we want to hear what's going on.
	Anyway, I want to hear what's going on.
	So that means you have to listen to what's going on.
	I guess.
	The numbers that you can use, first time caller line, 775-727-1222.
	Yeah, 1222.
	That's 775-727-1222 are the wild card lines at 775, the area code, 727-1295.
	And the east and west of the Rockies lines, you can use those too.
	But unless you are with the crowd, unless you are with the Kreskin crowd, do not, repeat, do not call.
	wild card lines at 775, the area code, 727-1295, and the east and west of the Rockies lines.
	You can use those too.
	But unless you are with the crowd, unless you are with the Kreskin crowd, do not, repeat,
	do not call.
	Because along with the photograph that I've got every minute on the webcam.
	Obviously I want to know what's going on out there and where everybody is and all that kind of thing.
	So with all that in mind, I'll talk a little more about the whole Krisken prediction in a second.
	We've been getting calls here non-stop about the thing, so I'll tell you more about it in a moment.
	Alright, here we are, coming up on 10-23.
	Pacific Time right now and once again, Kreskin has made a prediction and we are in that window right now for what it's worth.
	What I said last night, I'm going to repeat again tonight for those of you who don't know what I think about this.
	I've said what I think, I'll say it again.
	I can't figure out what the upshot of this is for Kreskin.
	I can't figure it out.
	Uh, if he'd made a prediction for a year or two years, then you could see how, you know, you're going to get your publicity value out of it.
	And, uh, but to, to, you know, to predict something so close term, you know, he predicted it for tonight within the week.
	That, that makes me wonder, he's put up $50,000 if he's wrong about this UFO prediction that says three or four craft are going to be seen.
	uh... by people in Las Vegas who are with Kreskin and out in the desert and I'm out in the desert I just saw a very neat falling star and I'm sitting here looking at the lights of Las Vegas as you can be if you wish in the meantime we are going to try and take calls with the exception of this one coming up only from people who are out there with the Kreskin crowd and I know you've got cell phones and cameras and You know, it's probably like Independence Day, right?
	Shouting for the aliens, hurry up and come in, and we welcome you, and all the rest of it.
	I can't figure out the psychology of what Kreskin has done.
	I just, for the life of me, cannot figure it out.
	Because the downside seems too great for whatever immediate publicity value you get.
	If it doesn't happen, the downside... I mean, people are coming from Australia, right?
	The downside of this is that the angry people, I suppose, Nothing happened.
	And then again, you know, I'm going to qualify this by saying a lot of my audience is out there.
	I know that.
	And they know what they're doing.
	They know what a satellite looks like crossing the sky.
	They know what an airplane looks like.
	They know what navigation lights look like.
	They know what the space shuttle, should it come over, would look like.
	All of that.
	The majority of the crowd is going to be able to delineate between an event of that sort and the kind of event that Kreskin is talking about.
	So I've really thought hard about this.
	I can't figure out what he's doing, why he's doing it.
	It seems the immediate downside is pretty heavy if he's wrong.
	we've got one hour thirty five minutes or so
	find out whether he's right or wrong uh... the president gave a speech
	tonight and i started to go you know that i just told you about the
	combining of the agencies and i i just started
	i had a few calls uh... during the news at the top of the hour and one of them
	said the same thing that several of my emails So I thought I would bring this gentleman on, and there you are, sir, you're on.
	So during the President's speech, which I did not see, about the combining of the agencies and Homeland Security and all the rest of it, Uh, you're claiming you saw a UFO?
	Yeah, uh, I think, I don't know if it started during the middle of the speech, but uh, behind his, his sort of right shoulder, um, coming out from behind his head was sort of a white, glowing sphere, and it kept sort of changing shape, as UFOs are known to do.
	And when I replayed the tape, because I recorded it, as soon as my wife and I saw that, I just like, my jaw dropped.
	All right, all right.
	Okay, so you've got some tape.
	I don't suppose you're not a computer geek, are you?
	No, I'm not.
	You see, you could actually do a snap of that and send us a photograph.
	So somebody out there will have taped the president or will get it and do a snap for us and send it to us and we'll get a picture of it up there.
	How about that?
	Yeah, I mean, that's great.
	There was actually two, though.
	One of them, there was the big one that was on the sort of right side of his ear, but One shot up from behind the trees, and it just sort of flickered in and off and went past the other one.
	And I couldn't figure out what else it was.
	I didn't think it was reflecting light.
	Okay, well look, it's well recorded with downtown professional video equipment.
	You know, they'd be shooting the President, so I guarantee we will come up with a photograph of it, sir, and we'll all take a look-see, huh?
	Sounds like a case for Richard Hoagland.
	Well, I don't know.
	Richard would say no, no, no.
	I don't deal in that stuff.
	I appreciate your call, though, sir.
	Thank you.
	So there might have been something seen behind the President.
	I received a bunch of emails on that, and then, of course, his call.
	All right, now, I'm going to say this again.
	Only those of you out there with Kreskin need call right now.
	That's all.
	Only if you're out there with Kreskin.
	Everybody else, hang up so we can find out what's going on.
	On the first time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi there.
	Um, I'm out here at the, uh, Kreskin deal.
	Okay, you are out there.
	Yes, I am.
	Alright.
	And it's, it's over.
	What do you mean it's over?
	I mean, uh, some people saw some things and, uh, most of us didn't see anything.
	Uh, well then, how do you know it's over?
	Well, everybody's going home.
	Kreskin, Kreskin turned off the lights and... Did Kreskin... Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
	Did Kreskin say it was over?
	Yes, Kreskin said it was over.
	You're kidding.
	No.
	And also, you're not going to believe who I was standing behind.
	Who?
	Danion Brinkley.
	Danion was there?
	Yes.
	Did Danion see anything?
	As soon as everybody started, well not everybody, as soon as five or ten people started seeing things, Danion said, He was with two girls, and he said, uh, well, we can gather the kids and go home now.
	That's Dan, you know, right?
	And, uh, he said, he said, you know, the girls were saying, well, what do you, what do you think's going on?
	And he said, well, they're seeing what they need to see.
	Yeah.
	Well, how many people do you think were out there?
	Um, I would say probably about a thousand.
	A thousand people?
	Yeah.
	And how many people do you think started screaming they saw something?
	Uh, about 11 or 12.
	I don't, I'm, uh, listen, uh... Well, and you know what?
	Listen, hold on, sir, alright?
	Alright.
	Alright, hold on.
	tomorrow's post the
	the well i think you've just heard what romano sauce
	She was outside and I didn't, I wasn't looking at the webcam at that time, so I don't know if it caught any of it.
	But look, we're going to continue for the next few minutes anyway to take calls only.
	From people who are out there in the Crescent area or were with the Crescent group, it's now said that it's over.
	Let me bring this caller back on.
	You're back on now.
	Hello?
	Hi, this is Joel in Vegas.
	Yeah, hey there.
	So, anyway, it's over.
	It's over.
	And what would you say the majority of the people thought?
	They thought that we did see some low-flying airplanes go over.
	It's kind of like my wife just described?
	Yes, of course, you know, of course, we're right here by the airport.
	Yeah.
	And that's what, that was the consensus.
	That it was airplanes?
	Yes.
	Okay, listen, I'm going to move on and try to get some more, you know, witnesses like yourself and try to get a sense of... The only people that saw it were the people that were in the show before he went out there, so it was like a hypnosis deal.
	Okay, I appreciate the call.
	Were you in the show?
	No, I wasn't in the show.
	Well, then I don't know how you can know that it was a hypnosis deal.
	Uh, but, uh, that's, that's interesting.
	Um, very interesting.
	Well, Wes to the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello, I take it you're in Las Vegas?
	That's correct.
	Okay, so what do you have to tell me?
	Well, I was in the show, and of the 500 people in the showroom, he dismissed about 200 and kept 300, pulled them down to the front of the stage, and He did a little extra with us.
	I don't really think it was hypnosis.
	We walked in about a quarter of a mile.
	Well, let me stop you.
	You say he dismissed a couple hundred from the audience, kept about 300, and did what?
	He actually, I don't think I would call it hypnosis.
	I wouldn't call it a trance.
	I wouldn't even call it a suggestion.
	But he did some of the close your eyes and hold your arm out in front of you straight, rigid.
	And now you're unable to put it down and visualize a circle in your palm.
	It's standard mentalist.
	Kreskin is a fabulous mentalist.
	Yeah, but what does that have to do with seeing UFOs?
	Nothing at all.
	Nothing.
	Okay, so you went out...
	With the group, right?
	Yes.
	And it was estimated there were a thousand people there by another caller.
	I would say four to five hundred.
	I did not see a thousand.
	All right, four or five hundred.
	He dismissed the crowd at ten twenty.
	I mean, twenty minutes after the hour.
	So then it sounds like what my wife saw would have been about the right time, about ten fifteen.
	She actually got a better show than we did.
	Really?
	So now, I mean, what did Kreskin say for himself when he said it's over?
	That was it.
	He just said that is the conclusion, everyone is dismissed, and goodnight.
	He made no explanation for what was seen or was not seen.
	The crowd was understandably not very excited because, I mean, after all, we are in the flight path.
	You know, we're right under the McCarran flight path.
	Yeah, I know.
	So then, as you point out... I personally saw nothing.
	Then as you point out, my wife apparently had a better view of it than you all did.
	I believe she did.
	I personally saw nothing.
	Of these four airplanes.
	Correct.
	Oh, wow.
	I personally saw nothing.
	Four airplanes.
	Okay, I appreciate it.
	Thank you very much.
	And you personally saw nothing.
	Okay.
	Hmm.
	Well, you know, just based on what I'm hearing here, it sure sounds like a miss to me.
	But...
	Okay, you know, we're yet to hear from... Well, let's just keep moving.
	Hello there.
	Are you out there with the Kreskin crowd?
	Yes.
	Ah, okay.
	You're on a cell phone, too, huh?
	Yes.
	A hummy one, too.
	What's your first name?
	Tia.
	Tia.
	Okay, Tia.
	So, what's the deal?
	Well, everyone's saying that they didn't see anything, but I definitely saw something.
	What did you see?
	I definitely saw a couple ships.
	You saw a couple of ships?
	I did.
	I mean, They were saying they saw a lot of low-flying airplanes, which we did see.
	We did.
	But... I saw them.
	They were very obvious to me.
	Were you one of the 300 people that Kreskin kept after his show?
	No.
	No?
	But I was in the show.
	Yeah, I was in the hyp... They're saying the hypnosis thing?
	Yeah.
	I was in that, yes.
	Oh, you were in that?
	Yes.
	Okey-dokey.
	Bless your heart, and thank you very much for the call.
	So she was in that select group.
	But says she saw something.
	Are you out there with the Kreskin crowd?
	No, I'm in North Las Vegas.
	North Las Vegas, yes.
	Yes, sir.
	My daughter and I were looking at a cigar-shaped object that's directly overhead, just about.
	It's brightly lit.
	Is that going on right now?
	Yes, right now we're both sitting here looking at it, and there's like a small, smaller object that seems to be moving back and forth away from it.
	It's so weird, but it's nowhere near downtown.
	Yeah, I hear you.
	Kreskin said it's already over.
	Yeah, we were listening to that on the show, so I don't think this has anything to do with that, but this is definitely not a star.
	It's something different.
	It's a cigar.
	All right, well, let's see if we get more reports of it.
	Yeah, this is in North Las Vegas.
	All right, thank you very much, sir, for the report, and take care.
	You know, there's going to be a lot of sightings and a lot of things.
	I mean, we're a lot of people out, of course, just, you know, watching.
	And, you know, when you pay attention to the sky, you see things that some of them are hard to explain.
	It just comes from looking.
	People don't usually look at the sky.
	But I'm still saying, I think, from what I'm hearing so far, this doesn't sound like much to me.
	It doesn't sound like a hit to me.
	First time color line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey Art, this is Ginger.
	I'm out at the site.
	Hey Ginger.
	Yeah.
	So let's... I was one of the ones that was hypnotized.
	Oh.
	Or whatever you call it.
	Okay.
	I don't know if... He was giving suggestions and stuff.
	Yeah.
	And I thought, you know, I'm very susceptible.
	I thought, I see something.
	Right.
	And we saw planes.
	Planes.
	But it was a great scene.
	There was lots of people.
	They're selling beer and water and... Beer and water.
	For free.
	I got a free Kreskin book.
	Three Christian pictures were passed out by the radio station.
	Yes dear, yes dear, but the critical, all critical thing is, you didn't see a damn thing, huh?
	Not really.
	And so, I mean, what was it like when Christian stood up there and said, it's over?
	I didn't hear that.
	Oh, you didn't?
	I didn't hear that.
	His mic wasn't very loud.
	I see.
	And, but, you know, when we were like in the little room there and he was like telling us what was going to happen, we were going to see something, we were going to get a message.
	He said, when I dropped the handkerchief, Then you're going to, you know, you'll, that's when it's going to start happening.
	Yeah.
	And just remember what you saw and tell everybody.
	And, and so he went out there and he dropped a handkerchief.
	Dropped a handkerchief twice.
	Twice.
	And then, you know, we see in planes and people, isn't that the flight pass?
	Oh yeah, I guess it is.
	Yeah, a flight pass.
	Well I can't.
	I can't see it.
	Yes, go ahead.
	There's one other thing that I can't figure out, is he said it was like from 9.50 till midnight.
	That's right.
	Why did he leave at 10.15?
	Well, because he said it was all over.
	Yeah.
	One of our callers said he said it was all over.
	Right.
	But, you know, he's the one that said till midnight, so you would think he would hang.
	You know?
	It's like, what up?
	Yeah, well, you're right.
	That's a very good point, and I appreciate your making it.
	Thank you.
	Yeah, thanks.
	Alright, I don't know.
	Sounds like a bust to me.
	You know, it sounds like they were airplanes, and it sounds like they're exactly the same thing my wife saw coming from this side, you know, as she pointed out in the San Francisco flight path, and that there were four of them, but they were definitely airplanes.
	So, there's obviously going to be local television coverage and that sort of thing, and we'll see how they report it, but based on talking with those of you that were on the scene so far, It looks like phooey to me.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello there.
	No, you're not.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, this is Star Bill Show.
	Yes, it is.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Vegas.
	Okay.
	Were you at this affair?
	Yes.
	And what pray tell did you see?
	I thought I saw something, but it flashed across the sky so fast that I couldn't really tell what it was.
	Hmm.
	Some kind of light.
	Were you in with the crowd?
	Yeah.
	Who you were?
	One of the crowds, supposedly hypnotized, or whatever you want to call it.
	I see.
	Did you see all this when the handkerchief fell?
	Shortly after, yeah.
	Shortly after.
	Hmm.
	Alright, I appreciate the testimony.
	Thank you.
	I think we're getting a picture here, huh?
	Just talking to people is the best way to get a picture of what happened.
	You beginning to get a picture of what happened out there?
	I am.
	I certainly am.
	On the first time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Turn your radio off.
	That's the first thing you have to do.
	Okay.
	Turn the radio off.
	Hurry up.
	Hurry.
	Yeah.
	Turn the radio off.
	Hurry.
	Hurry to turn that radio off.
	Now, they've still got it on.
	I know.
	We're turning it off.
	Is that better?
	Yes.
	Thank you.
	All right.
	So, I take it you're out with, what was the crowd?
	Yeah, actually we're out at Blue Diamond and Industrial.
	Oh yeah, okay.
	And a lot of people showed up.
	I would say, I mean, they had police control, everything out here.
	The only thing that I've seen, which was on a satellite pattern, however, the only thing that I saw was a very green light, but it took the same pattern as a satellite, but it was very bright green.
	Did it move across the sky at a regular rate?
	No, it was much slower than a plane, and it was actually slower than a satellite.
	What was promised was three or four craft, and the biggest sighting...
	Of the century, and I don't think we got that.
	Do you?
	No, I'm waiting.
	But you know what?
	He said until midnight.
	I'm not really sure if he left or what the deal is with that, because I'm not privy to that.
	I've got callers telling me he left.
	Now, we'll play it on the safe side and wait until midnight.
	But he said, you know, Kristen apparently said it's over.
	You know what?
	I'm not privy to that conversation.
	However, I am out here, and there are literally hundreds of people still out here, probably maybe even a thousand people still out here.
	A lot of people have left, but there's still a lot of people out here.
	So I'm waiting to see what's going to go on.
	What's going to happen?
	Yeah, I want to see something.
	I understand, and I understand that was a motivation for a lot of people.
	So you're actually at a different location, Blue Diamond.
	It's kind of dark out toward Blue Diamond, away from the city a little bit, and not as dark as we have it over here, but it's darker.
	Oh, it's very dark.
	So you're telling me at that location there's like a thousand people, huh?
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah, easily.
	We're about 50 yards away from where they had all the big lights in the sky.
	They had the big lights on.
	They turned the lights off at 10 o'clock.
	The news stations were out here.
	Yeah, so I mean, they're still here.
	Everybody's still here.
	A lot of people have left, but there are a lot of people still here.
	Alright, well, okay.
	The word is that Kreskin, just so you know, apparently, according to my other caller, said it's over.
	It's over.
	Well, it ain't over for me, honey.
	I'm staying until midnight.
	You hang in there.
	You hang in there.
	I'll see you later.
	Alright, good.
	She's going to stay till midnight.
	Fine.
	And there's a plane crawling across right now.
	A bright plane.
	I'm watching the skies above Las Vegas.
	And there's a pretty bright plane that's crossing right now.
	That's a night vision camera I've got on.
	And again, you're seeing on the left two telephone poles.
	Then you're seeing a little glow in the sky.
	That's Las Vegas.
	And then the tree on the right.
	Those are closer.
	Oh, I'd say those are about a half mile away.
	And then you're seeing a big piece of the sky of Las Vegas on my webcam.
	Now, Ramona did see the apparent airplanes.
	That's what more people than not are calling what was seen.
	And that's what it was.
	This is going to be in bus territory, I think.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi Art, it's Kate from Out There TV.
	Hi Kate.
	Hi.
	I just had an opportunity to interview Mr. Kreskin about what he just did.
	Yes?
	Would you like me to play it for you?
	I have it on tape.
	You should be able to hear it.
	I'll play just a bit and if you can hear it, do you want me to let it go?
	Yeah, go ahead.
	Okay.
	Did you get that part?
	I'm on TVM channel 41 in Tarantino Park, the hot park now.
	There's so many things, it's exciting.
	And I'm afraid I didn't see one, and I'm a believer.
	Did you get that part?
	Yeah, I heard that.
	I'll continue.
	I love you.
	So did you really see something?
	I saw it in your mind.
	And actually, what we were doing, were you at the... I was there.
	I was showing a technique that could be used.
	Okay, I heard all that.
	and it had nothing to do with physical, it had to do with human.
	Sir, does it make you feel bad at all that a lady just spent $600 to come down here from Seattle, Washington on
	her own money?
	I didn't tell her to do that.
	No, no, but you made the people believe that it would be able to be seen anywhere except in Nevada.
	No, I did not.
	You did, I heard you say that, sir. I was there Monday night.
	How's that?
	Okay, I heard all that.
	So, listen, I've taken a whole bunch of calls and so far some people said they saw airplanes,
	My own wife saw airplanes from this side of the hill.
	That was it, though.
	That's all I saw.
	Yeah, that's all you saw was airplanes.
	But we did have somebody who was in our group, and she did claim to see it, and we're going to have her talk about it on out there tomorrow, or Sunday night, but none of us saw it, and there were like 30 of us together.
	And there's nobody left there now.
	Would you say the general consensus was that it was a bust?
	It was a bust.
	It was a hoax.
	It was a cheap trick.
	Well, all right.
	Okay.
	Thanks for your call.
	There you go.
	That's an opinion.
	And what I wanted to do tonight was to get on here and to give you a sense of what was going on.
	And I think you've got it.
	I'll try one more here.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, I wasn't part of the Kreskin crowd, but I do have something to tell you.
	Well, where are you first of all?
	Well, me and my girlfriend were... No, Derek, stop.
	Where are you?
	Right now?
	Yes, in what city?
	Oh, Las Vegas, Nevada.
	Okay, okay.
	We're out here right now.
	We're sitting out here in the middle of the desert.
	We'd taken our horses and we were going up to Potosi so that we could see this phenomenon.
	Right.
	And we didn't make it because my truck broke down.
	And we had to break down up at Red Rock.
	This is about 840 tonight.
	Here we are, didn't make it, and we saw something up at Red Rock.
	It was an amber, and it blew out four different times.
	Hon, I saw that too.
	Those were four flares, and I saw them go up myself.
	Those were flares.
	Okay, well I didn't know that.
	But I knew I saw something.
	Yeah, I saw four flares over Potosi, at different positions over Potosi.
	And you could tell they were flares, because they went up.
	And they were orange, and then they faded right out, the way flares do.
	This is over by Red Rock?
	Well, you would have seen it from that direction, but I saw it from this direction.
	It was actually over Potosi, and you could see, it was clearly flares, and if you think about it, how they went up, they went up, you could see them going up, then they flared up at the top, and then they faded away.
	Those were flares.
	Okay.
	Well, you know what?
	I've never seen anything like that before and it was pretty intriguing.
	Thank you.
	Okay, you're very welcome.
	Now, those were four flares and I saw those because I was out setting up the webcam at that time and I said, oh man, look at that, flares.
	And I called my wife out and she saw one of them too.
	Those were four flares that somebody fired.
	But, you know, if somebody wanted us to think those were UFOs, they out their mind.
	Those were absolutely flares.
	All right, so Kreskin saying it's all over.
	I think that I gave you a pretty good picture, I hope I did, of what's going on out there tonight, just over the hill from me.
	Coming up next, and in a way I'm thanking Kreskin for declaring this over, and we'll just leave it, I think you've got good impressions of what happened, we'll just leave it right there because we have a hell of an interview to do.
	This is the real McCoy.
	Coming up, Bob Lazar.
	Now this is a physicist who worked at Area 51.
	So I'm kind of glad the other story is clear of us now and that you understand just as I do everything we just heard in this last hour.
	However, coming up, what's coming up next?
	You've never heard Bob Lazar's story.
	You are really in for a treat.
	He worked with Alien Craft at Area 51-S4, actually.
	And he's got new information.
	If you've heard the story before, he says new information tonight.
	All of that should be coming up next.
	I'm Art Bell.
	In the mid-1980s, a fascinating story emerged A man claiming to have worked out at a test site designated S-4, which is part of the Groom Lake Test Site, came forward to tell his remarkable story to local Las Vegas news anchor George Knapp.
	I'll bet you George Knapp was out there at the Kreskin Affair tonight with cameras.
	The man was Robert S. Lazar.
	Bob, never claimed to have made contact with, worked, With, or has ever seen, any aliens at S-4.
	but he did claim to have worked on a route revolutionary
	propulsion system seen saucer shaped craft
	in a hanger built into the side of the mountain and witnesses live
	trials uh... had witnessed live trials of uh...
	a man flying disk his story made headlines around the world brought hundreds
	of thousands of people to the desert spawned a multi-million dollar
	publishing and merchandising circus
	and shook up uh... country to the core of its beliefs Peace.
	Thank you.
	It is worth noting that for nearly 15 years now, Bob Lazar has never tried to embellish his story, change it, and neither the U.S.
	military nor the government has ever denied any of it to be true.
	Bob Lazar, the man behind the legend of Area 51, as the center of a massive U.S.
	government cover-up surrounding cracked alien spacecraft, has recently signed a deal with UK-based Blue Book Films to finally bring his unique story to the screen.
	And this is a man who does not do interviews.
	He's even worse than I am.
	I mean, he's very shy.
	Probably somewhat reclusive.
	I get accused of being reclusive a lot, and I am.
	And I guess Bob is too.
	Bob, are you reclusive?
	I guess you could say that.
	You hardly ever do any interviews.
	I had one or two with you over many years, and that's been about it.
	I mean, you have not given that many, have you?
	No, I really hate doing interviews.
	I understand.
	Well, you know.
	I do know.
	And I hate them, too.
	And I refuse almost all of them.
	Every now and then I'll do one.
	I don't know why.
	But I hate them.
	And I especially hate television.
	I agree.
	However, your story is really important.
	It's so important they're now going to finally do a movie about it.
	How do you feel about them doing a movie about you?
	Well, you know, this is the third try.
	Initially, Columbia Pictures wanted to do a movie some years back.
	They hired a writer and spent somewhere around $400,000 to pay this guy to write the story.
	Oh my goodness!
	That's a tremendous amount of money!
	It is.
	Essentially, it's just a chronological list of events that you're going to have to form into a movie.
	However, writers want to get creative.
	This guy turned it into a James Bond story.
	There were actual scenes of the guy playing Bob Lazar running on the tops of cars that were parked on Las Vegas Boulevard in the silhouette of the erupting volcano in the background and they had a robot holding me underground trying to drown me to stop me from talking I mean some real ridiculous stuff and you know my point is if you're gonna go make make up a story about flying saucers don't bother using my name just go ahead and make up a story but if it's gonna be accurate to the facts then it has to be accurate to the facts I understand there has to be
	A little glitter put in it somewhere to make the story flow or whatever makes Hollywood happy.
	Yeah, but that's too much glitter though.
	Yeah, you've got to stick to the facts and make it at least somewhat factual.
	So what, you got a chance to read this and said, I'm sorry, I'm not associating with this or what?
	Well, they never give you right of refusal to the script.
	With a movie company, and I'm sure you know that.
	So then you go, oh my God, what have they done to me?
	Exactly, but I mean, the only thing you can really do is just say, you know, hey, I'm not going to support it because they essentially force you to go do other interviews on TV and whatnot.
	And, you know, they're going to sit you down and the first thing you're going to say, well, is this an actual account of your life?
	And you're going to have to say no.
	Yeah.
	And, you know, there goes the movie.
	So the thing is, though, that The real story itself is so compelling.
	Or have we gone so far into the world of science fiction that as compelling as your story is, and it's an incredible story, it's not enough for the screen without embellishment?
	Maybe not.
	There's no explosions.
	There's no shootouts with aliens.
	It's just an account of events that happened at a secret installation out in Nevada.
	And the end of the exact same thing happened with New Line, who bought it from Columbia.
	They tried to produce the film, but first they tried to get it written and get it into production.
	And they hired another writer.
	And one of the first things I said was, make sure you get a guy that's familiar with science to some degree, because it's a technical film.
	Right.
	And the first day I met this guy, they flew him down.
	He said, now, What are these things called, Adams, again?
	Oh, no, really?
	This is a terrible start.
	And anyway... So now, what about this new company, Blue Book, that's got it now?
	What's the promise?
	Well, supposedly, and from everything so far that I've heard, sounds like they're going to follow an actual account of the events that happened.
	Of your story.
	Which is great.
	Let's get the real story.
	I've got no problems with that at all.
	They're really not going to embellish anything.
	They're not going to say anything that didn't happen.
	What more could you ask for?
	Let's get the real story.
	Bob, you're a physicist, correct?
	Well, I was at one time.
	Right now I'm not doing anything.
	Yeah, I know.
	Take me back to way before S4 and before Area 51 and all the rest of it, and just tell me something about yourself.
	I mean, how did you get interested in the things you're interested in that eventuated in your getting that job?
	How'd you get to be who you are?
	Well, I wonder how far I should go back.
	I guess at one point, I had moved to New Mexico in the early 80s, and that was to take on a job with Los Alamos National Lab.
	What kind of work?
	Well, that was physics.
	That was at the Los Alamos Mazon Physics Facility, which now has a different name.
	It's been quite a while ago.
	But at the time, we were running experiments on their linear accelerator there.
	And really looking into the basic makeup of matter.
	That's pretty exciting.
	That's pretty exciting work, period.
	Oh, it was fantastic.
	It was a lot of fun working there.
	Very strange town to live in, but I enjoyed it quite a bit.
	How long were you with Los Alamos?
	With Los Alamos, I believe I was there only a couple years before I realized that I could make a lot more money on my own just operating as a contractor and consulting for the lab as opposed to working for him.
	That happens a lot.
	Oh, and it was certainly worth doing, so I left the lab and at that time started Lazar Energy Systems and we developed, designed, and repaired radiation detection equipment.
	Radiation detection equipment?
	Specifically, alpha radiation detection, which is The type of particles given off by plutonium.
	And Los Alamos making bombs and that sort of thing has a lot of plutonium laying around so they want to be able to detect even minute particles that may cling to clothing.
	So in other words this was a sort of a protective detective device.
	Right.
	For human beings.
	They essentially frisk you with it when you leave.
	It also scans the floors and cars as they leave too.
	Was that a pretty good business to be in?
	Fantastic!
	It was absolutely fantastic at the time and we were awarded a government contract about four years in a row and things were great.
	I did still go down to the lab a lot because I knew people there and one day there was a local Los Alamos newspaper called the Monitor and you know at the time I was building all kinds of strange projects and it was really Into building things with jet engines in them.
	And built... Really?
	Yeah, race cars, and I even built a little Honda passenger car that had a jet engine in it.
	A jet engine?
	Yeah.
	In a car?
	How does that work, Bob?
	How does a jet engine in a car work?
	I mean, there's this famous myth of the guy who plowed himself into a mountain with some jets.
	I mean, how does a jet... That was a JATO rocket.
	That JATO rocket, yeah.
	Yeah, it's a famous urban legend.
	It is.
	But in real life, how in God's name do you... In real life, this was, I think it was, I don't remember the year, 1980 something or other, Honda Civic, which had the engine up front, and the back, in the back I installed a jet engine.
	So you could drive the car around normally, and then push a lever and the license plate would open up, exposing the nozzle to the jet.
	You could fire that up and take off at high speed.
	They had put that on, I think it's the June 82 front page of the Monitor newspaper.
	What kind of jet engine was that, do you recall?
	It's a pressure jet engine, which is kind of a jet engine with no moving parts at all.
	You know, if you know how jet engines, turbojet engines, and the like, work.
	I do.
	Generally, that's real confusing because you need some moving parts in there to make things go.
	That's right.
	And it's not a ramjet, and ramjets need to be moving at extremely high speed before they can produce thrust.
	But this is kind of a strange hybrid, and it produces thrust statically without it moving.
	That's really cool.
	How much thrust, do you know?
	That was about 2,000 pounds.
	2,000 pounds?
	For a 1,600 pound car, that was... Yeah, oh yeah.
	So in other words, you're already moving at like, what, 50, 60 miles an hour when you let go?
	Yeah, exactly.
	And then what?
	Well, and then you better hold on.
	Yeah, well, how fast?
	I mean, it takes you from 60 to what?
	212 was the fastest we ever had that car going.
	212 miles an hour?
	Yeah.
	You out your mind!
	Where were you driving these things?
	Well, the high-speed run was done at El Mirage Dry Lake in California.
	And the car was pretty much retired after that because it was a unibody construction and the whole car started pretty much bending from all the forces.
	What?
	But, I mean, the only reason I brought up the whole jet car thing was that... You were the driver, right?
	Right.
	Did you have a death wish?
	No, that kind of stuff isn't dangerous if you know what you're doing.
	Well, I mean, for example, the car had shaken apart during, you know, maximum thrust.
	Yeah, but it didn't.
	Well, right, it didn't, but it did bend itself up pretty well, huh?
	Yeah, that was kind of expected.
	Now, I know that you have a car that, I remember when we interviewed before, you had built a car that runs on hydrogen also, right?
	Yeah, that was a 1978 Trans Am, and in fact I entered that in an alternate fuels contest, which was a race at that time from Woodland Hills to California to Kitt Peak, Arizona, and I drove non-stop there on one tank of fuel.
	Well, you know, that's interesting because that's a long time ago, and now all of a sudden President Bush is saying, we are going to begin moving toward a hydrogen economy.
	Well, we should.
	I mean, it's the perfect fuel.
	In fact, I was just talking to my girlfriend the other day saying, I think I'm going to go and convert our existing car over.
	Really?
	And I kind of miss making my own fuel.
	I mean, it's essentially free.
	Okay, but here's the question, and I talk to a lot of people about this, Bob.
	Right now, I think the oil companies imagine hydrogen is fine because, you know, they'll use fossil fuels to put the hydrogen You still have to use energy to make energy, right?
	However, there are other ways.
	Now, of course the oil companies and the gas companies want you to crack hydrogen from methane or some other hydrocarbon fuel.
	Absolutely.
	That's ridiculous.
	You're defeating the whole purpose of using hydrogen.
	Water is H2O.
	Now, you know, every school kid knows you take a glass of water, you know, add just a drop of salt in there to get the ions moving around.
	And take a 12-volt battery and put the positive and negative leads in there, you see one lead let off a little bit of bubbles, and the other lead lets off twice as much bubbles.
	Well, the lead with twice as much bubbles is the H2, and the O2 is coming off the other one.
	So just running a little electricity through water gives you a flammable gas.
	That's the way to make hydrogen.
	Okay, so other than the creation of the voltage, The way I had done it before was I had a a fairly large solar array and what that did was during the day it took and cracked the hydrogen using an electrolysis setup which is what I just described cracked the hydrogen out of water and during the night it was pressurized using the available water pressure
	into the hydrogen tanks which contained in iron titanium hydride.
	It's kind of a granular substance that absorbs hydrogen like a sponge soaks up water.
	As opposed to just compressing a tank with hydrogen which is a dangerous... I was about to ask you, in this process is there a danger?
	No, once it's chemically stored in the hydride you can shoot incendiary bullets at the tank and it just does nothing but smolder.
	But the gas itself could be dangerous?
	Yeah, but the tank only produces as much gas as the car needs at the time.
	The way the setup that I came up with is that the car radiator fluid heats an outer jacket on the tank, and when the hydride heats up, it evolves hydrogen and it gets into the carburetor.
	So there's never more than the volume of hydrogen that fits in the tube from the tank to the carburetor or fuel injection system.
	So it's a very safe system.
	All right, what about the car itself?
	The performance of the car compared to a piston engine.
	What was the performance like?
	We're talking about the hydrogen car or the jet?
	Oh, no, the jet.
	I can imagine that.
	No, the hydrogen car.
	The hydrogen car, it is a piston car.
	And you know, the beauty of the system is you can convert any existing piston car to run on hydrogen.
	You just need to retard the timing because hydrogen burns so much faster.
	The flame front just flashes through the cylinders and will cause Detonation or knocking, but with a couple minor modifications, any car can run on it.
	And you do lose a little horsepower because it's, you know, there's a difference between spraying a flammable gas in there as opposed to having, you know, a liquid hydrocarbon with all that carbon energy in there.
	Well, when you say a little, how much real difference in performance?
	Well, I lost, I lost a significant amount in the Trans Am and, you know, probably at I believe the car was 220 horsepower, and I think I was down to about 150 running on hydrogen.
	Oh, but still usable then.
	Oh, yeah.
	You weren't following electric cars by any means.
	Well, that's pretty good.
	That's damn good, actually.
	So why not do that now to all cars?
	I am.
	I mean, I'm going to convert my car over.
	You're wife is okay with this, right?
	Right.
	Bob, hold on a sec.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	I'm Mark Bell.
	And you're listening to Coast to Coast AM.
	My guest is Bob Lazar.
	I've been where the eagle flies.
	Rode his wings across autumn skies.
	Kissed the sun, touched the moon.
	But he left me much too soon, his ladybird.
	He left his ladybird.
	Ladybird, come on down.
	I'm here waiting on the ground.
	Ladybird, I'll treat you good.
	the once again uh... here is bob was on that uh... that that
	It's good that you've told us some of this, Bob.
	It gives everybody a background for what kind of guy you are and what you've been doing.
	Sounds like you've been having a hell of a lot of fun, actually.
	I mean, putting a jet in a car, that's got to be a lot of fun.
	Yeah, it was.
	It's a crazy thing to do.
	Do you have a website?
	Well, there's a website about me.
	That's not mine.
	My website is my...
	How did you get involved?
	clear dot com scientific supplies and and whatnot that we felt somebody
	was hope hoping you'd post the process for the creation of hydrogen
	on some website somewhere something well they'll have to dig back the archives
	and listen all right so uh...
	how did you get involved uh... if you can remember the first
	moment or the first contact that anybody made with you regarding uh...
	Area 51 and S4 and all that stuff over here.
	Well, this is the reason why I brought up the jet car initially.
	That day on June 82, the front page of the Los Alamos Monitor newspaper had a picture of me and the jet car on it.
	And on the flip side of the front page, There's an announcement there that Edward Teller, father of the hydrogen bomb, was going to be giving a lecture down at one of the lecture halls at the lab.
	And I was anxious to hear the lecture, so thinking there were going to be lots of people there, I got there really early.
	Because at the time, I was still working for the lab.
	Right.
	Or was it?
	Now I'm trying to remember.
	I was still working for the lab.
	But in either case, I got to the lecture hall real early, and as it turned out, there was nobody there, and now I'm kind of waiting around, about 15 minutes goes by, and I see Ed Teller sitting on a little wall outside the hall, reading the front page of the newspaper, which I thought was a perfect segue for me to introduce myself, because he's sitting there reading about me, and I always wanted to meet the guy.
	Of course.
	So I went to introduce myself, and we talked for a bit.
	And actually, the lecture got delayed a little bit, so we had walked around and, you know, I got to talk to the guy.
	What was he like, out of curiosity?
	I mean, how did he strike you?
	He was a very stubborn guy.
	Stubborn?
	Yeah.
	And it's a feeling you get speaking to most of the older scientists and physicists at almost every lab I've seen.
	You can't present them with anything new that they didn't think of first.
	They're scientists.
	They're supposed to be open-minded and explore new ideas and things, but there is nobody as closed-minded as a scientist or physicist that's been in the business for over a decade.
	Can you remember the conversation that made you form that opinion?
	No, this is an opinion not just based on him, but based on the other scientists and physicists that I've worked with.
	They all act exactly the same.
	Oh, and you caught the same drift from him.
	Yeah, identical.
	Anyway, I got to see the lecture and time passed.
	Actually, as time went on, I moved out of Los Alamos and moved to Las Vegas.
	After some time there, Involved in other businesses, I kind of missed being back in the mainstream science field and started sending out resumes.
	EG&G and I wonder who else was around there at the time.
	People might not know, EG&G is, I think they're a contractor for area 51, for the test site.
	For the test site, right.
	They're EG&G measurements.
	In fact, those are the guys that, in fact, Edinger Who's the E in EG&G is the guy, I think, that invented the flash, the xenon flashbulb, or high-speed flash photography, something like that, because EG&G started out as the company that came up with a way to photograph the atomic tests, which was really difficult.
	That's a big flash.
	It'd be very hard to photograph.
	Yeah, very high-speed, and they wanted to actually see The fireball expanding as it cracks the case and moves apart, and you know, you're talking over a million frames a second.
	Wow.
	And they came up with some fantastic cameras.
	In fact, I was just told the other day by a movie studio executive that all those old cameras found their way into most of the motion picture companies now, and they use them for special effects, all those atomic bomb cameras.
	Yeah, we got a lot of You know, scientific advance from defense, if you wish to call it that, and the defense industry.
	Of course, you know, they develop the latest stuff, I guess, so it's not a surprise.
	So, you applied to EG&G.
	I sent a resume to everywhere that was in driving distance.
	Now, there wasn't a whole lot in Las Vegas, but, you know, I gave it a shot.
	And what I also did was I sent one to Dr. Teller.
	Was it Livermore at that time?
	I don't remember you, I'm sure.
	Right, and I referenced our meeting and so on and so forth.
	Any suggestions, just pass them along.
	I believe it wasn't too long after that that I got a call from EG&G.
	Really?
	Now at that time, EG&G was located at McCarran Airport.
	EG&G Special Projects.
	And for the people who lived in Las Vegas a long time, they remember that.
	They've since moved it behind the fence at Nellis Air Force Base.
	Okay.
	And they said to you what?
	They told me to come down for an interview.
	I did.
	And apparently, this was under the recommendation of Dr. Teller, which was fantastic.
	Of course.
	Did you know that, by the way, at the time?
	I think I found that out After, if I recall.
	So, in this interview, what did they want?
	What were they after?
	What were they curious?
	What did they want to know?
	The initial interview was for a lesser position, and I was interviewed by a board of people over a span of about an hour and a half.
	That's some interview.
	Yeah, it was pretty intimidating.
	You know, it was an uncomfortable interview.
	Do you recall any of the key questions I asked you?
	I was an hour and a half, my God.
	Not for that, because I did go back for another one.
	Oh.
	I mean, they did ask me... One of the strange things I found about it was that they weren't asking me that many technical questions.
	They were asking me questions About my demeanor, about what I do under stress.
	If I get all angry, do I start throwing screwdrivers and things around?
	Which was kind of weird.
	You expect them to, you know, certainly... Well, they did have some technical questions and test my abilities, but... Well, you know, that is not that irrational a question.
	I've thrown screwdrivers.
	Well, generally I don't.
	I just give up and walk away for a while.
	But I assume what they were doing was just, they knew of my work in Los Alamos and the other things I was doing, and they just assumed that it fit the bill.
	Sure, but they wanted to know about your demeanor for some reason.
	Right, and as it turned out, this all had to do with security, as I found out later.
	But I went home, I wasn't that thrilled about the interview.
	It was several days later I got a call back and they said, you know, as it turned out, we felt you were overqualified for the job we were offering and we're pretty sure you would become bored with it after a while.
	However, there is something else that we have.
	I'm trying to remember verbatim what they said.
	I believe it's at a remote site on the test site.
	So you will have to fly out there.
	And everybody should know that those flights leave every single day from Las Vegas and go up to the test site, right?
	Yeah, at the time they were called the key flights, because key something airlines had the contract.
	Well, they still fly every day.
	Do they?
	Yeah.
	Oh, sure.
	I didn't know if the test site was still operational now.
	Oh yeah, it is.
	We have here in Pahrump, it's kind of interesting, the test site that doesn't exist.
	We have, every morning, they may have stopped it now, but up at the VFW Lodge, up the street from me here, they have a parking lot at the VFW Lodge, and they have buses at about, I don't know, like four or something in the morning, a little before five in the morning, and on the side of the bus it says, Area 51.
	No kidding.
	Yeah, no kidding.
	Yeah, no kidding.
	And they pile in, and they bus from here in Pahrump, but there in Las Vegas they fly, and they still fly, so yeah, you're right about that.
	Well, they had me come down for an interview that was a little more in-depth that time, and I did very well.
	And they told me that it was going to be fairly heavy security, and it was going to be working on an advanced propulsion system.
	And I thought, that's great!
	This is exactly what I want to do.
	Here's the guy that's tinkering around with jets and running on hydrogen.
	I mean, propulsion was my thing.
	Played around with when I, you know, was at home.
	A natural thing for you.
	Right.
	You know, certainly excited about it.
	And I, I was under the impression that this was going to be a field propulsion system for some new fighter aircraft, a field propulsion system, like, uh, some sort of electromagnetic drive, something with, uh, uh, that uses some of the basic forces of repulsion and attraction, whether it's extremely high voltage or Or who knows what.
	Bob, at that time, you obviously knew about the test site.
	Everybody knows about the test site.
	Did you know about some... Had you heard the rumors of a secret base up there?
	Way back then?
	I'm trying to remember.
	I probably did.
	In fact, thinking back, I probably...
	I almost remember there were some silly stories about aliens working out there and whatnot.
	I was a hardcore non-UFO believer.
	I mean, I thought all that stuff was absolutely ridiculous, and the people that believed it were even more ridiculous.
	I didn't pay much attention to any of that stuff.
	I think I did hear on KLS-TV or something, or one of George Knapp's interviews would John Lear or something like that.
	Okay.
	That there were aliens working up there, or eating people, or whatever the story was about.
	Okay, yeah, those were back in the days.
	In fact, I was doing shows on it with John Lear back then, and so those rumors were around.
	So you sort of vaguely knew about them, but didn't pay a lot of attention, and so did you have any idea where you were going to be working?
	Did they tell you that?
	No, they just said a remote They had a strange way of calling me to work.
	site.
	Wherever that was going to be was fine.
	Well, that's got to get your blood going a little bit.
	I mean, it does.
	I was excited and it was a job on the cutting edge of technology, so I was back at home
	again.
	They had a strange way of calling me to work.
	It was initially, apparently I was supposed to be replacing somebody, and there was kind
	of a rush to get me up to speed.
	Now, because I worked at Los Alamos, I had Q clearance, which is civilian top secret.
	So, you know, they knew I wasn't a foreign agent or anything like that.
	Right.
	However, this required a higher clearance to work at this site.
	Higher than Q. Right.
	What happened next?
	Well, they probably investigated you is what happened.
	Yeah, they started doing that, and there were visits to the house.
	Even when I had a house full of people over, guests having a little get-together, there would just be guys knocking at the door and would just show themselves in and start looking through the house.
	And, you know, lots of people witnessed this stuff going on, and it began to really interfere with my life.
	Shortly after the investigation started, They allowed me out to the site.
	Now they didn't start handing over everything or showing me everything.
	How did you get to the site?
	I drove, well first they'd call.
	The job was not something like a nine to five or every day at seven o'clock to be there.
	You were almost on call initially and somebody would call from EG&G and the phone call would go exactly like this.
	You pick up the phone and they say, Hello, Mr. Lazar.
	It is now 4.43 p.m.
	We expect you to be at the installation at, you know, 625.
	It was always an odd number.
	And that's it.
	And they hang up the phone.
	It's very strange.
	Yeah.
	But every time I went out there, I pick up the phone.
	They tell me what the current time was, and they tell me what the time they expected me out there was.
	And I drive, I drive out to McCarran Airport.
	I drive to the Special Projects EG&G building.
	Yes.
	And right in back of that at the time, is really where the key flights took off from.
	Or at least where they parked or anyway, that was the gateway to getting on the plane.
	Did they black the windows out?
	There's stories that people who traveled up there.
	Not there.
	But once you got, the plane flew from McCarran to Groom Lake.
	Right.
	Which is the only big runway out there.
	And it's really big.
	Yeah, it's giant.
	Once you get there, you get in a bus and drive about 15 miles south.
	That was the bus with the blacked out windows.
	Blacked out windows.
	Those stories are definitely true.
	In fact, I've got a picture of one of the buses.
	How many How many people typically would be in that bus ride with you going south?
	I never saw more than three people, myself included.
	Wow.
	Wow.
	Okay.
	So, your initial employment, was that just at the test site, or did they begin taking you south to S4 immediately?
	They began taking me to S4 immediately.
	In fact, We weren't really allowed to wander around or anything at Groom.
	We just sat there, waited either at the cafeteria or right where we were for the bus, if it wasn't there, and it drove us down south to S4, which is a short drive on a dirt road.
	You know, of course they don't admit any of that even exists out there, but there are now zillions of photographs, courtesy of the Russians, Other satellites and even planes have been nearby, and there's a lot of photographs of Area 51, so we all know it's out there, and we all know the runways there, despite what they say.
	A lot of people even disputed the road that I talked about, and said, no, it's impossible for it to be there.
	And John Andrews, the guy that worked for the Tester Model Corporation that was so into all of this, he's the one that came up You know, that tried to buy the satellite photograph from the U.S.
	government, and they wouldn't sell it to him because they said it's classified.
	And he's the one that bought it from the Russians for $1,500.
	Is he really the one?
	Yeah, that's where that photograph came from.
	And with that photograph, you know, we blew it up, and there's the road exactly where I said, going right to the side of the mountain where the hangars are.
	So that really did help out.
	It's kind of strange that Americans have to go, you know, to a foreign country They get stuff that they're hiding from Americans.
	Yeah, especially the Russians.
	It's absurd, but... Do you remember clearly, and I bet you do, the first day that you took that bus to S4?
	Did you know it was called S4?
	Yeah.
	They told you you were going to an area called S4?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, they did.
	There's actually signs out there.
	There are signs?
	Yeah.
	There are actual signs out there.
	The average person never gets to see them.
	No, no.
	Alright, a good place to hang everybody up.
	Hold on, Bob.
	It's top of the hour.
	Bob Lazar is my guest.
	This is a man who worked where the real saucers are.
	Or were.
	I guess I could be, and probably is, debated.
	But when he was there, he got to actually work on Alien aircraft.
	Back engineering alien aircraft.
	This is Coast.
	This is Coast.
	It is the night. My body's weak. I want to run. No time to sleep. I've got to run, fight like the wind, to be free
	again. And I've got such a long way to go. Such a long way to go.
	Once again, Bob Lazar.
	Bob, can you remember the first ride down to S4 in the bus, the blacked out bus?
	You remember that, huh?
	Yeah, I do.
	It was quite a day.
	Well, give me a sense.
	What was it like?
	Well, the first time I went down there was essentially to read.
	I was brought into a small room at the facility they had there and these I guess you just call them briefings because they were just an overview of some of the other satellite projects going on.
	That's interesting.
	Well, going on that were connected to what I was doing.
	I'm just trying to find a good way to put this.
	In other words, they had to give you enough of an overview so you'd have some understanding of what you were about to work on.
	Right, because just like they do at Los Alamos or any other national lab where you work on high security systems and subsystems, is they compartmentalize everything.
	And what they do is they have people working on different aspects of one project, so nobody really knows how the whole thing connects together.
	Well, some people do, but for the most part, most of the people working on it only work on, you know, a specific module, a specific subsystem.
	And, you know, somebody else worries about what it connects to.
	And that way your knowledge about what's going on is limited just to the thing you worked on.
	Makes sense.
	It was the same here.
	And because this was a back engineering project, we weren't teaming together to try and build something.
	We were essentially teaming together to try and find out how something was built.
	You had to have a little knowledge of what was on the other side of the wall.
	Yeah.
	You know, what the next guy was doing.
	So they gave you a little briefing about some of the other aspects of what was going on, but not doing really not too much in detail, but just enough.
	So you go, well, okay, I know where this plugs into.
	Did they tell you that you were to be working on propulsion systems that were not ours?
	No, not until later, even though it became pretty obvious that's what was going on.
	Initially, I began reading what the people had done before me, and immediately they're talking science fiction about power sources that put out tremendous amounts of energy, and propulsion systems with technology that doesn't even exist.
	And you begin to wonder if these guys are just testing you in some way, and this is just a joke.
	Or what?
	So it was like reading science fiction?
	Initially it was.
	And it wasn't until the next time that I came down that I discovered it wasn't.
	The following time I came down, which was only my second time to work, one of the hangar doors was open.
	I believe it was open intentionally.
	And instead of going around the side of the building in the main entrance, we stopped out in front and Cut in through the hangar.
	And it was obvious it was in the hangar.
	The second I stepped out of the bus, there was a large disc-shaped craft sitting on its belly on the ground.
	Okay, not on what would be some sort of touchdown or landing gear?
	No landing gear, no man-made support.
	It was sitting on the concrete on its belly on the ground.
	And it was a disc, a typical flying saucer type disc?
	How big do you think it was?
	Well, John Andrews and I spent some time working on that and he brought some people down from the model division so we could scale things up by trying to guess my distance from it and looking at objects that I knew approximately what the size was so they could crunch all the numbers through and figure out within a fairly good estimate How big the craft was.
	That came out to about 52 feet in diameter.
	That's pretty big.
	52 feet, huh?
	Yeah, it was big.
	It was big.
	And when you saw that, there must have been this moment where the jaw drops and you go, oh my gosh.
	Well, not at that time.
	You would kind of think of it.
	But when I left the bus and I saw that, to me it had the opposite effect.
	It said, see, I'm right.
	There are no flying saucers.
	It's just an advanced US-made aircraft, and they've been testing it, and people think it's aliens from outer space.
	It made complete sense.
	And in fact, when I walked by the craft, there was a little backwards American flag stuck on right next to the opening in the craft.
	I thought, well, that absolutely, that's it.
	There's no offense or buts.
	So I was, by the time I walked in, it made complete sense.
	This was the big new secret fighter that was going to replace The F-15 and who knows what else, and I was going to work on the propulsion system.
	Yeah, actually it would make more sense that you would think that, especially with a little American flag.
	That was a nice touch.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Later did I learn to find out that that was more or less a sticker that says, this belongs to us now, as opposed to we made this.
	Did you get introduced to who was to be your boss?
	Is boss the right word?
	Yeah, kind of.
	It was tough to figure out who your boss was there.
	They worked on the buddy system.
	What moves science forward is free discussion.
	It's people sitting around working on a common problem and discussing things.
	It's just brainstorming.
	Especially for something outrageous like this.
	But that was not permitted.
	What they did is they had a buddy system.
	You had one person who you worked with, who you could talk to.
	There was no communication with anybody else, not even if you sat down for lunch.
	Now, how interesting is that, Bob, because you were talking about the atomic bomb earlier, and Teller, and they had the same arguments in the development of the atomic bomb, that they were not allowed to sit around and throw ideas back and forth, and that it was holding the whole damn project up.
	It's exactly what was happening here, and all that has told me is that since the 40s, the military has not changed the way they do anything.
	And it's probably the reason why this project moved ahead so slowly.
	They were obviously more concerned about security than moving anything forward.
	And of course, I guess they did not give anybody any idea where they got these crafts.
	Or did they?
	Well, in one of the briefings, they said information gained from the craft, and they really didn't say how, but that the craft came from the Zeta Reticuli star system, which is apparently a binary star system that you can only see from the southern hemisphere.
	That is exactly correct.
	And the one thought to perhaps hold a possibility of harboring Life, and you're right, it can only be seen from way down south.
	I believe it cannot even be seen from Puerto Rico, where Cebu is.
	Now, that's really interesting.
	So they actually did say, from information gleaned in the investigation of this craft, they thought it was Zeta Reticuli.
	That's how it was worded.
	Okay, so to work you go on what?
	Well, the first person I was introduced to was a guy by the name of Barry Castillo.
	I don't know how you pronounce that name, but I was introduced to him.
	This was the guy I was going to be working with, and we had a moderate-sized lab, and specifically we were working on the power source and the propulsion system of the craft.
	So he was your buddy?
	He was my buddy that I was going to work with.
	In the lab, the first day in the lab meeting him, it was a very down-to-earth guy, and what was there was a reactor moved from one of the craft and one of the propulsion mechanisms that were on the bench.
	So they had already removed something.
	Now, at that time, I had only seen one craft.
	The one you described, yeah.
	Right.
	As it turned out, there were nine there.
	Nine, right.
	And we'll get to that.
	But this portion of the propulsion system, or the main portion of the propulsion system, do you remember what your initial impression... Listen, by the way, I don't know if we're going to... I'm going to press you to talk about things that you are unable to... How much are you unable to talk about, or unwilling to talk about, or will get in trouble for talking about?
	Is there anything that you hold back, that you have to hold back?
	Well, the only things that I... There are a couple Things that I haven't said, and for a reason.
	It's not that, oh, there's a new news flash or something.
	I just want to say that's new.
	The only reason there are some things I've held back was so I can recognize somebody from the area.
	You know how all the chats and whatnot that go on on the internet, they're full of just nut cases.
	I know.
	And on both sides of the fence, though.
	I mean, you have people that will swear up and down, you know, I never lived in Los Alamos, I never worked there, or who knows what.
	But on the other side of the fence, you also have people that, just because they want to support me, say that, yeah, I was a security guard or something there and I saw Bob going to work every day.
	Well, you know, both of those people don't help.
	Because neither of them are true.
	And, you know, as much as I appreciate the help from people that say stuff like that, it really doesn't help.
	Because all it does is confuse matters.
	And, you know, in this field of UFO research, or whatever they call it these days, is so inundated with garbage and just ridiculous stories, you do not need to add even 1% more.
	Because it's impossible for anybody to take anything seriously.
	There were only 22 people working there.
	22?
	Yeah.
	And I have the list of them.
	You have a list of the names?
	Of every person that worked there.
	Every person that had clearance for that.
	Now that's the only thing I've kept to myself.
	There were a couple other little things here and there.
	And they talked me into releasing them in the movie.
	And that's fine.
	But the number one thing are the names.
	The name, of course.
	There's so many times you hear people say, well, I've got a friend that worked there.
	Really?
	What was his name?
	And it's never, I've never seen a name come through.
	Well, when you and your buddy first saw, when you first saw this propulsion stuff, how did it hit you as a physicist?
	What did you, you know, when you look at it, you said to yourself, I'm looking at what?
	Well, the first thing I saw that was absolutely mind boggling.
	And I will never forget it was the reactor operating.
	Now this is something very small, probably on a base 12 or 15 inches square with a about a basketball size sphere on top.
	Okay.
	Well, semi-sphere.
	It's, you know, the basketball setting on the on the plate.
	Right.
	This was the reactor for the craft.
	It has produced a tremendous amount of energy and also it was the source of the gravitational propulsion system.
	Where it got its basic gravity wave from that they amplify.
	Now these are, you know, we know what the effects of gravity are but we cannot produce Gravity or anti-gravity.
	You know, I've spoken to a lot of people and I ask people, you know, you see in NASA training films astronauts floating around and you know that's all done in that large plane that they put into a crash dive and people go weightless inside.
	Vomit comet.
	The vomit comet, exactly.
	You know, the majority of people I've spoken to Even people that seem fairly not knowledgeable to me think that NASA has an anti-gravity device in this room where they just turn it on and people float around.
	Now, if we had something like that, there wouldn't be airplanes anymore.
	Cars would fly.
	I mean, the world would be changed.
	We don't have a machine that can make gravity.
	Because if you do, you can also control time.
	So if we had something like that, the world would be so different.
	We probably wouldn't even be on the radio here.
	Go ahead.
	This device that you just talked about, that you just described, how did you and your buddy endeavor to measure its energy output and in what form?
	How did you take a look at it?
	Well, like I was describing, the first time I saw it operating, all he had to do was put the lid, the semi-sphere, on top of this device and it became operational.
	And he said, just put your hand on the top of it.
	And when I did, I could not touch it.
	It was the exact sensation of taking two like-pole magnets and trying to push them together.
	Wow.
	But it was just my hand approaching a metal sphere.
	Now, that in itself is shocking because there's nothing that can do that.
	In other words, you felt a repelling force as in like a wall?
	I mean, you just could push on it?
	Yeah, I could push starting from probably about a foot away I could begin to feel something, and as I got closer, it got more intense, and probably at two to three inches, it was impossible to make contact with it.
	And you could push on the top, your hands would slide to the bottom, it was a very intense field, and you had a golf ball there, and we even, you know, even something moving at high speed could not penetrate the field.
	This was the basic gravity wave that the system produced.
	Did you determine it to be a 360 degree field?
	No, it wasn't.
	It wasn't?
	It wasn't.
	And again, that's something else.
	It's a completely directional gravity field only on the skin of the hemisphere.
	Oh my!
	And it didn't appear on the base at all.
	And so this alone was just absolutely mind-boggling because here's a machine doing the impossible.
	The next thing that I was shown, and you know, it couldn't be a magic trick, it's my hand approaching a metal sphere.
	There's no room for any question there.
	And what did your buddy, you and your buddy, discuss at that point?
	I mean, you obviously asked questions, or he offered information, or he just said... Well, this was the initial introduction to what was going on, and I mean, you could see it in his eyes.
	He took pride in showing off what they had, because the next thing he showed me was Connecting it to the amplifier, and he said you want to see something really neat now.
	Yeah.
	As if that wasn't amazing.
	There is... How am I going to describe this?
	There's a fitting, almost like a pipe, that slides down and makes contact with the hemisphere.
	This apparently, from what was described to me, is a tuned pipe.
	Almost like waveguides are tuned For microwaves to pass through.
	It would be resonant.
	Exactly.
	So once this pipe is placed upon the hemisphere, the field completely disappears.
	So that's giving you evidence that it's now traveling through the waveguide.
	The waveguide goes to another extremely large tube, probably about 2 feet in diameter, 4 feet long, and has plates, I guess is the best way I can describe it on the outside.
	Well, this is actually the emitter, the gravity emitter.
	There's something in between the two, which is the actual amplifier.
	Hold it right there, Bob.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	We'll pick it up right there.
	So that was the driver stage, the gravity energy driver stage for what was to come.
	I'm Art Bell.
	this is close Once again, here's Bob Lazar.
	And by the way, he's not in Las Vegas anymore, I don't think.
	Bob, you're somewhere else now, aren't you?
	The mountains of New Mexico.
	Back to New Mexico, huh?
	Yeah.
	Cool.
	That's a nice place to be, yeah.
	Alright, what you were describing, the first thing you were describing, that you saw, that was obviously a driver.
	You know, in broadcasting, it would be the driver unit in the generator itself.
	Right.
	And now you're starting to describe what terrestrials would regard as waveguide.
	Or whatever carries this energy to some kind of amplifier, huh?
	Exactly.
	However, if I can take one second and just step back to the hydrogen thing.
	The only reason I'm saying this is because, I guess because of the show.
	Sure.
	There are a million people hitting the United Nuclear, my United Nuclear website and asking about, asking me to post some kind of instructions about.
	I told you.
	Yeah, so I'm going to go at There's no way I can answer all the emails, so I'll go ahead and generate a webpage about that.
	Well, you could either do that or give out your home phone number.
	Yeah, I'd rather do the webpage.
	So there'll be some information up there eventually.
	Thank you on behalf of the millions out there.
	Back to the reactor, or the propulsion system.
	Anyway, the way it was configured was supplying The basic wave, the basic gravitational wave, to the amplifier and to the emitter.
	In the craft, there are three emitters.
	Three?
	In a triad pattern.
	And what I found interesting is, you know, after being involved with the project, that kind of made me start looking into UFO stories to see what's true and what's not.
	And there were so many stories, especially a rash of Belgian Sightings in the early 90s, I think, or middle 90s, where they saw from on the bottom of the craft three bright spots of light.
	Right.
	And that is exactly how this operated.
	Another interesting thing was, I know I'm jumping ahead of myself here, but the other craft that were there all had the same power and propulsion system in it.
	All three emitters?
	Yeah, which I found really Interesting in itself, which means that whatever civilization made these, it's almost as if there's, I know it sounds crazy, but a factory that's producing these and subbing out their propulsion systems for different models of crafts.
	I mean, it almost sounds like a car manufacturer.
	Well, that's how we'd do it.
	But it was the identical system in all crafts.
	All right, now he demonstrated the amplifier to you?
	Yes, that was the The reason he connected up the reactor.
	How was the amplifier demonstrated?
	In other words, what further did you see when he brought the amplifier online?
	When he fired that up, he took an ordinary candle and put it probably about six feet in back of the emitter.
	I was waiting for things to get started, but he really didn't do anything, at least that I saw.
	Went over and looked at the candle, and the flame was no longer flickering.
	Huh.
	It was essentially frozen, the way it was.
	Frozen?
	Yeah.
	It just, the candle was there, and the flame was like a two-dimensional picture of it.
	Oh my God.
	I mean, it wasn't, the flame wasn't moving, but it was still emitting light.
	Which means?
	Well, it could mean all kinds of things.
	It was just, it's just another thing that is bizarre.
	That you really can't.
	I mean, how in the world would you do that?
	Now, wait a minute.
	We know, don't we?
	Physicists know that gravity bends and affects light.
	Oh, absolutely.
	But without using gravity, how could you do that?
	You couldn't.
	Yeah, exactly.
	So, within that field, it froze, to your eyes, it froze that image.
	Right, to my eyes.
	The candle was removed, and to show me how the emitters can focus gravity, because this is very crucial to how they operate, they must be able to focus and diverge the gravitational wave.
	Apparently he set it for a tight focus and increased the power to it, and at the focal point, which was At that time, probably about three and a half to four feet from the rear of the emitter, a black dot formed.
	A black ball, not a black hole.
	It was stuck in the desks and things there.
	So what you were showing me was the fact that light was being bent.
	Now there is nothing that we have that can do that.
	That would have been at the focal point.
	Now, for example, with the satellite dish, a lot of people know about satellite dishes.
	A parabolic dish.
	That's right.
	Out at a certain point, which is the focal point on a good dish, it's about the size of a quarter or even smaller.
	That's what's called the focal point, where all the energy from the sunlight dishes radiate right to that little tiny spot, and that's where they put the collector, or the LNA or LNB, to get the signal.
	And that's a focal point.
	So you're saying, just like that, at the focal point, but out in the middle of nothing, in the middle of air, there was a black dot.
	Right.
	And that we was demonstrating the fact that the that the device was bending light away from the area.
	I mean, it was a completely black black dot later to find out.
	Well, again, I don't want to jump ahead of myself.
	But anyway, there are a couple small demonstrations like that that were extremely impressive.
	And, you know, this is what we were supposed to be working on.
	And, you know, our mission was really not just to find out how it worked, but the aim of the project was to see if these systems and subsystems can be duplicated with earthly materials.
	Bob, when these engines, for lack of a better word, were running, was there any audible noise?
	You were there in the room.
	I mean, was there, other than The test of putting your hand up, was there anything that hit your sensory system that you could describe when these things were running?
	On the test setup in the room, it was completely silent.
	I wasn't even sure if the thing was operating.
	However, during the test flight of the craft, with all three amplifiers operating, there was a definite hiss.
	And Corona Discharge on the bottom of the craft.
	Oh yes!
	Like a high voltage HISS if you've ever been around high voltage power lines or high power transmitters, you must have.
	Of course.
	And you know, you have that familiar high voltage HISS.
	And you said a Corona Discharge.
	A Corona Discharge, which is kind of, not a St.
	Elmo's fire, but a blue glow That you typically see again around high voltage systems and what's happening in the air is breaking down and emitting photons and you know, it glows.
	It's the same reason why lightning bolts are visible.
	So but that it was obvious there was high voltage on the skin of the craft.
	And obviously it was leaking off because that sound is unmistakable.
	As the craft lifted off higher You know, when I approached 20 or 30 feet, the sound disappeared, so it was obviously interacting with the ground.
	Fascinating.
	If we were just in free flight, there'd be no sound at all.
	Now, do you know, you say there were three emitters on each craft.
	Do you know offhand how these emitters in flight were manipulated to, for example, leave the ground and then begin propulsion that would take you horizontal or vertical or wherever you wanted to go?
	Do you know How that energy was manipulated?
	Yeah.
	The craft operate in two modes.
	It's Omicron and Delta.
	Omicron is using a single amplifier to move the craft and Delta uses all three amplifiers.
	Whenever a craft is near another gravitational source, such as the planet Earth or whatever, it's only using one amplifier to lift itself off the ground.
	The amplifiers are these, you know, like I said, or I keep using the word amplifier, the emitters are these up four foot long, two foot diameter pieces of pipe, essentially held by a two or two and a half foot, three inch diameter, flexible pipe.
	And these hang in the bottom of the craft.
	One of them points down, and it produces a gravitational wave that will lift the craft off the ground.
	The other two Are swung almost horizontally.
	So in the bottom of the craft, they're really pointing out in front of it.
	Now, most vehicles and aircraft that we're used to either accelerate hot gas out the back or use a propeller and, you know, throw air out the back and the craft moves forward.
	Sure.
	These do the exact opposite.
	And my best analogy for it is the old rubber sheet or the bed.
	If you take a bowling ball and stick it in the middle of your bed and in front of the bowling ball about two feet, take your fist and just push it deep into the bed.
	What happens?
	The bowling ball rolls forward.
	Absolutely.
	So this is exactly what they're doing.
	The craft is standing using one gravity emitter Well, that was going to be my question.
	and they're using the other two essentially to make a little divot
	a gravity well in front of the craft I understand that. It rolls forward and it's why they look
	so ridiculous when they're in that low-speed mode because it's an unstable form of flight.
	Well that was going to be my question when they do the vertical lift
	I wonder how, of course I don't understand how that energy is distributed
	but I wonder how the craft is stable as it goes vertical
	well the gravitational wave is propagating from the emitter not in a linear fashion but it's diverging
	So it's on a pedestal, almost like a pyramid.
	So the bottom is so stable, and in fact, as it goes higher, because the area of the base increases, it becomes more stable.
	It's only when it's very close to the ground that it's wobbly and kind of goofy looking for such an advanced machine.
	No, I've got it.
	Look, people should understand that Not just your word tonight, but thousands and thousands of people have gone to, you know, as close as they can get to Area 51, and they have seen, there's a million eyewitnesses that have seen craft being tested over the years, over those years, so that a lot of witnesses to what you're saying right now about how they flew.
	Oh, I had, you know, if you remember at the time, I had the test flight schedule and I brought You know, when I started to leak some information, I brought my friends out there at night.
	John Lear was one of the first people out there, and, you know, we brought a big 10-inch Celestron telescope.
	And, you know, at that time, you could get a hell of a lot closer to Area 51 than you can now.
	Yes, I know.
	And, you know, we all saw what was going on.
	I am curious about this.
	Let me ask.
	You obviously had been treated to plenty of security warnings, probably had to sign a bunch of crap And so, you made some kind of decision at some point to begin leaking stuff.
	Describe to me how you went through that metamorphosis.
	How did you get there?
	Well, I was perfectly content with the way things were going.
	Once you're on the inside, it's a different state of mind.
	You know, if you're on the outside of something, you know, hey, it's not fair.
	We all should have this information, so on and so forth.
	But, you know, you get kind of a change of attitude.
	Once you become privy to the information, you go, you know, those guys don't deserve to know anyway.
	But that does change after a while.
	And the impetus really had nothing to do with me initially.
	Remember, they were still going through all my security Whatnot, whatever they do.
	It goes on.
	Yeah, I mean, they do everything in there.
	They're very concerned about your mental state because that, you know, if a person is very depressed or despondent or something like that, it's going to affect their work performance.
	And especially if they're trusting him with very important secrets, there's going to be a problem.
	National security.
	Exactly.
	And now I had given a written order to have my phone monitored and myself monitored.
	God, that's something to give.
	I mean, I know you're a pretty private person, but to give... Well, I was excited to work on this.
	That was nothing.
	More exciting than being monitored?
	Oh, by far.
	And I was absolutely following the rules.
	You know, at the time I was married, and I wasn't saying anything to my wife, and initially this is where the problem began.
	And, you know, I mean, what do you say?
	You leave the house at 11 o'clock at night, Where are you going?
	Oh, I'm going to work.
	Really?
	And you know, night after and then you come home, you know, six, seven hours later, where were you?
	I was at work.
	Yeah, and you know, after a while, it begins to sound like you're having an affair.
	Yeah, of course.
	Well, that's exactly what happened.
	That's exactly what happened.
	And as time went on, my wife began to have an affair.
	And they knew it and I didn't because they monitored the phone.
	This is all new stuff.
	I've never heard any of this.
	So they had all the written transcripts of what was going on.
	Oh my God.
	And they stopped calling me out to work because they had to make a decision on what to do.
	They were either going to just let it sit and, you know, see what happened.
	You know, if we broke up or, you know, that ended or whatever.
	But at any rate, you were suddenly a risk.
	Yeah.
	And, you know, at that time they had stopped calling me out and I kind of began to get a little concerned.
	And this is when I had the flight schedule and brought a few of my friends out at the time, including my wife, and, you know, showed them what I was doing at night.
	And they all saw that.
	And in fact, you know, we got away with it the first night and we got a little, a little greedy and went a couple other times.
	And we finally got caught.
	How many of you got caught, and what happened?
	I think it was four of us.
	We were standing there, out close to Area 51, in the absolute black desert, where you couldn't see your hand in front of your face.
	Now we had been staying there about half an hour, and Uh, my friend Gene and I were sitting there joking about, uh, well, maybe we should just take the base by force and, you know, just saying ridiculous things like that.
	Now, little did we know that the security guys had snuck up on us and they were no more than six feet from our noses.
	Listening to you say things like that.
	And they had no idea what was going on.
	So we're sitting there talking and out of nowhere, a sniper Not a thyroscope, a night vision scope falls on the ground.
	We see this little green light fall down and roll.
	And it came out of nowhere.
	We had no idea.
	Anyway, the guy had dropped it.
	You know, they walked forward and, you know, made everyone go back up to the road.
	They call them the sheriff.
	Would these have been the Wackenhut security people?
	As far as I know.
	I had taken off into the desert because we had all assumed if I was caught, there was a problem.
	Well, that's a good assumption.
	Because these guys could have just wandered out there and been looking what's going on, but if they saw somebody from the inside there... So I took... Well, I'm not even going to say that.
	I took off into the desert.
	And, um... You know, they had counted how many people were there.
	Toward or away from the area?
	Away from the area.
	Away from the area.
	You know, out into the desert, and you know, they saw there were three or four people there, and then when we got back up to the road, and the sheriff Came out from there.
	I think his name was Wah Morrow, who's still around there.
	And that's when I re-emerged, and he said, wait, we've got a discrepancy.
	There's an extra person here.
	Well, what's his name?
	And he took my license, read it into the base, and he said, OK, well, everybody can go.
	And the following day, I was called for a debriefing down at Indian Springs Air Force Base, which I had never been to before.
	Well, that's very interesting.
	They didn't throw you in jail.
	A lot of people... No, they didn't do anything.
	They spent the night in jail, a lot of them.
	No, the second they heard my name, the second he read the license, they said, let everybody go.
	And it was the following day when I got called in, and Dennis, who was the security supervisor at the time, drove to my house, and we went down there in my car, and that's when it really hit the fan.
	And, you know, kind of to make a long story short, they were pissed.
	Hard to say the least.
	Well, don't make it too short.
	This is pretty interesting stuff.
	I'd actually like to get some details of that.
	You called it a debriefing.
	Probably it was more like a, let's see how far, how scared we can get this guy.
	Well, that's exactly what it was.
	Alright, then hold on to that thought and we'll be right back.
	My guest is Bob Lazar.
	They're making a movie about all of this, by the way.
	Which you're definitely going to want to see.
	We'll tell you more about that.
	It's Blue Book Films.
	Going to bring the whole thing to the silver screen.
	From the high deserts.
	Not far from the areas being talked about right now.
	Now I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Music playing.
	There is indeed just over the mountain from me a place called Indian Springs and there
	is an Air Force base there and that's where they called you Bob?
	Right.
	Summoned you?
	Would you get one of the calls?
	You know, it's now noon.
	You'll be up here at some certain time or what?
	This was a little different.
	Dennis called me, who was my security supervisor at the time, called me personally and came to my house, which was very unusual.
	And then we both drove down in the same car to Indian Springs, which is An auxiliary Air Force base in this little town, which is, you know, the base is essentially shut down.
	But I guess some of it, you know, remains operational.
	In any case, that's where they took me.
	And?
	And that's when they started the debriefing.
	The first thing they brought up was, of course, that, you know, tremendous breach in security.
	They wanted to know everybody that I had told anything to, why I went ahead and did it.
	I was pretty straightforward with them, but they tried to be as intimidating as possible.
	Were you threatened outright?
	Oh, very much so.
	Yeah, and so was my wife's life.
	So, I became very concerned about that.
	Do you actually care to tell us what they said to you?
	You know, you'll end up a lump in the desert like so many others, or... You know, there was a lot of fear present at the time, and I don't remember verbatim, you know, what tagline they used, but it did get my attention.
	And this is when they brought up the transcripts of my wife's affair on the phone.
	Oh, that they told you?
	Yeah, so I found out from them.
	At that moment?
	Yeah, at that moment.
	That was something they had to slap in my face.
	Gee whiz, I wonder why they picked that moment to tell you.
	Well, who knows?
	Anyway, that's how the separation between us really came about.
	It was because of that, because of bringing my friends out there to see what was going on.
	Yeah, so that's really what set everything in motion.
	Alright, a lot of stories have flown around about what happened, Bob, after that.
	For example, you know we have the mutual friend of John Lear, who now, by the way, doesn't talk about any of this anymore, doesn't want any publicity.
	You can't blame him, he's lost some jobs, he's back working, he's doing fine, and he just doesn't want to talk about this anymore, and I don't blame him.
	No.
	I think John's rave now is about the dump up there at Yucca Mountain, about the nuke waste dump.
	That's the one thing I agree with John Lear.
	I know everyone in Las Vegas doesn't want it there, but if you're going to put it anywhere in the country, why not put it where you've already exploded a hundred atomic bombs?
	It's already a wasteland.
	You know, at that part of the test site.
	Well, you're right.
	That's a big controversy.
	Anyway, listen.
	There was a big controversy about something called Element 115, which was said to be some kind of fuel, an element we don't have now on Earth, that was the fuel or the what?
	What can you do?
	Well, I guess you could call it a fuel.
	It's what What made the reactor operate?
	And it's a super heavy element, something that we've theorized can exist.
	You know, people think back about, you know, high school or college chemistry.
	You recall that as the elements get heavier, you know, once you pass uranium, they decay.
	And some decay very fast as the elements get Very heavy.
	Their half-lives become extremely short, sometimes microseconds.
	So they're just around, they exist just for a blink of an eye.
	Well, it's been theorized and has been some time ago that there are islands of stability.
	Somewhere higher up in the periodic chart, there are places where groups of elements would again become stable.
	And this occurs.
	Theoretically, it was to occur in the 114-115 area, and again... An island of stability?
	Right, where these elements are relatively stable.
	And again, there is supposed to be another island of stability somewhere up in the 200s, but these are unattainable things, and no one says that nature has ever produced them.
	At the moment, but you know, when you talked about element 115 years ago, so many years ago, since then, interestingly, We progressed to the impossible.
	In other words, since you actually talked about it, they've been discovering elements moving up right on up the chart.
	Oh, they're getting close.
	Yeah, they're getting very close.
	And the half-lives are getting longer.
	Yeah, I know people back then who hawed at this, but now they're not hawing so hard anymore because we're getting pretty close.
	Right.
	And I'm sure eventually they'll synthesize it somehow.
	Instead of bombarding it with neutrons, now they use this new fusion technique, where they fuse the nuclei of two other elements together, which is kind of an odd way to do it, but it's got... I think the heavy ion, the lab for heavy ion research in Darmstadt, Germany, has pioneered most of the new heavy elements, and you know, mark my words, they're going to be the guys that synthesize 115.
	Bob, there was...
	There was talk that you spirited some Element 115 out of S4.
	Is that true?
	Where'd you hear that, Art?
	Oh, I've got friends too, you know.
	Do you want to comment on that?
	No, I don't want to comment on that.
	comment about you know what a comment on that i don't want to comment about that
	but you know that would be a good pledge hammer
	stupid uh...
	are a little bit will just uh...
	will will leave that one alone i guess uh...
	You think, do you think that since the time that, and you know what we didn't cover, we missed it, you described the one craft, but at one point while you were there, you saw a total of what, would you say nine craft?
	Nine craft, yeah.
	Nine craft, and if I recall, that was the day Barry and I were working in the lab and Dennis came in and he said, come on out, there's a test flight.
	So there was a flight scheduled and they were allowing me to see it.
	And we went from the lab out into the first hangar, which was the only one I ever saw open.
	And as I went out there, the craft was already outside the hangar and sitting on the ground.
	I don't know if they rolled it out, it flew out or whatever.
	But as I was walking through the empty hangar, I looked to the right and there were big bay doors in between the hangars and they were all open.
	And I could see all the craft lined up.
	So they had an outright collection of these things.
	Anyway, the craft was outside and there was a guy sitting near the door with what I surmised was an ordinary VHF radio.
	And this is something that to this day really bothers me because it should be, if this is a gravity propelled craft, Which is bending and distorting all forms of electromagnetic radiation around it and whatnot.
	It should be impossible to communicate with the thing.
	The radio should have been trash.
	Maybe it wasn't.
	Maybe it just looked that way to mean it was something more advanced.
	But anyway, he was apparently in communication with somebody in the craft.
	So I know it wasn't being flown remotely.
	Anyway, that was the first time I got to see, and the only time, all the crafts inside the hangar.
	Did you ever get to see the inside of any of the crafts?
	Yeah, just the one.
	The one I coined the term the sport model because in comparison to the other crafts it was really sleek and thin and looked like a sporty version.
	Can you describe the inside?
	Did it seem as though it was Designed for say a human or something close to a human Well, it's hard to say it was designed for something small because certainly a five and a half or six foot person is Hunched over and all but the very center of the craft.
	It's an it's an uncomfortable setup.
	It's extremely barren There are three seats in there three.
	Yeah, and there is a It's all one color.
	There are no aesthetics anywhere.
	And as far as the placement of everything, there are no sharp corners anywhere.
	Imagine taking a seat.
	Well, the amplifiers look like tables or boxes, just to give you a simple figure idea.
	But it was as if the inside of the craft was all molded with these parts out of wax.
	Molded?
	In other words, in aircraft we have rivets, we have various... Everything flowed together as if it was made out of wax and heated and then cooled.
	So there were no sharp corners.
	Everything just kind of blended together like the entire thing was injection molded.
	There was no visible seam or right angle anywhere.
	And everything was just a dull...
	Pewter's a little dark, but a dull aluminum color, so just being in the place, it looked very unearthly.
	If I could use that term.
	You can, sure.
	It was very unusual, because in any place you've ever been, and anything you've ever looked at, there are varying colors, shapes, and sharp corners.
	And everything was rounded, and everything was monochromatic.
	It was just one color.
	What about apparent controls for control of the craft?
	There were none.
	There were none?
	There were none.
	That's really interesting.
	There are no buttons, lights, or navigator position, or anything of that sort of the two places I was allowed to look at in the craft.
	Now obviously, whoever piloted the craft was on the central level.
	The level immediately below it, there's a small access hatch with a collapsible honeycomb access way.
	And I stuck the upper part of my body in there kind of upside down.
	So and I was I was told to do that.
	So I can see the placement of the gravity emitters and how they're hung and how they move.
	Oh, yes.
	And so that was that was the bottom level underneath that was just the skin of the craft.
	Now above that.
	I was not allowed to venture there was a small area above it.
	And on this particular The craft, the hump on the top, or the dome on the saucer, whatever you want to call it, it's not round, it's kind of flat on the top.
	There were these black portals, I believe there were four if I remember correctly, and they weren't windows, they were, from what I surmise, they were some sort of planar sensor, so the craft could get its orientation in space or wherever it was, where it could You know, these would detect positions of stars or something like that, so it can get a fix on its orientation and where it is, where it's going and that sort of thing.
	Now, that's my guess.
	I have no idea.
	But you surmise that there probably was an area of some control that you didn't get to see.
	Well, either that or there is a different type of control.
	Yeah, that has no obvious, you know, buttons or knobs or anything.
	Well, I know now, even in our fighter jets, they're beginning to get to the point where they put on helmets and they can actually think commands.
	I mean, we're doing that here on Earth.
	Yeah, it's not out of the realm of possibility that the craft would operate that way.
	How we interfaced to it, I would love to know.
	Because if in fact it did work that way, using an alien creature's mind, who in the world came up with the interface?
	And what would you have to go by?
	There's so much information I would have loved to have known to complete the picture for me.
	But you would surmise from what you did see that these crafts were probably made for Creatures that would be on average much smaller than humans.
	They would have to be.
	They would have to be almost close to half our size to comfortably fit in there.
	Huh.
	Now, you never, ever saw any alien beings.
	No.
	Were there, between you and your buddy or anybody else that you ever talked to up at S4, were there any discussions of I mean, it would be... How would there not be discussion of... Well, there was about who piloted the craft, and they called them the kids.
	That was the term they coined.
	The kids?
	The kids.
	And that's probably because of their size, or who knows what.
	But that's it.
	Oh, that's pretty interesting, though.
	They called them the kids.
	And actually, everything looked like it was set up for a child.
	So maybe that's where it came from.
	Bomba, how far since you have left, which is a lot of years now, do you think, well, for example, when you were there, how much progress had actually been made in either duplicating or beginning to get a handle on how these generators operated and the beginnings of duplication or trying to duplicate what they were doing?
	Well, I don't think they got very far.
	You know I use this analogy probably the last time I was on your show and you know if you took an ordinary modern-day motorcycle and just transported it back in time to the 1800s to the wagon train days and just left it out front in the morning everybody woke up and discovered it there with the keys in it Now, they can poke around and prod with it and play with it, you know, and eventually they're going to figure out how to start it just out of sheer luck.
	And it's going to start, and it's going to run, and they'll be proficient at driving it, as long as they keep playing with it.
	And when it runs out of gas... After crashing quite a few times... Well, yeah, but they'll pick it up, and they're pretty tough, and, you know, go on, and when it runs out of gas, it'll never work again.
	It'll sit there.
	Yeah.
	And, however, when it comes to duplicating it, if they wanted to make one, They couldn't even make the plastic fender on the thing because that material is just amazing to them.
	Right?
	I mean, you know, polypropylene or something like that.
	They just look at it and go, wow, it's solid, but it bends and melts.
	And, you know, they couldn't even make a fender or a turn signal on the thing.
	Much less the engine or the... Oh, forget about the working part.
	But this is exactly where we're at.
	We got a really cool toy and we've played around with it enough to where we know how it works and we can make it move around.
	But when the fuel runs out or something else happens to the craft, that's it.
	Then you've just got an inert piece of stuff that you never figured out.
	Right.
	I don't think they're ever going to duplicate, in our lifetimes anyway, what's there.
	You know, they may use it.
	It may get some other information off of it.
	Now, again, I'm going on thoughts that are 12 years old, so they could have made some tremendous strides.
	Since I was gone, and I was certainly not privy to all the information, but that's the impression that I was left with.
	All right.
	Hold tight, Bob.
	We're at the bottom of the hour here, actually.
	This one's for you.
	I'm Art Bell, and this, of course, is Coast to Coast AM raging throughout the nighttime with Bob Lazar tonight.
	you're hearing what you've never heard before back in a satin dress
	in a room where you do what you don't confess sundown you better take care
	if i find you been creeping round my back stairs sundown you better take care
	if i find you been creeping round my back stairs she's been looking like a queen in a satin dress
	alright once again here's bob lazar Bob, an obvious question, and one coming from Madison, Wisconsin, on my computer is, were there any signs on any of the craft of obvious damage?
	Not on the craft that I worked on at all.
	And, you know, everybody's wanted to know, well, how did we get them?
	Sure.
	And, you know, that's information I wasn't privy to.
	I would love to know, too.
	Was this, you know, you hear So many stories in UFO lore about an alleged exchange of technology.
	Did this actually occur?
	And I've heard people say, well, you know, we know there are crash retrievals.
	We have inside information.
	And you can't tell me that somebody came from 30 light years and nine different advanced craft and they all crashed.
	It's just, it's not possible.
	So, you know, I could, I could certainly see the Roswell crash occurring.
	But I just don't believe that flying saucers come here from a tremendous difference and they just miscalculate the weather conditions and they wind up crashing all over the place.
	It doesn't make any sense.
	I hear you.
	What about, did you ever learn anything of the material that the craft were made of?
	In other words, could you take a blowtorch and cut?
	Could you damage, dent, or otherwise bend, spindle, or mutilate the I don't know.
	Again, that was compartmentalized.
	That's the metallurgy guys that got to play with that.
	The only contact I ever had was going in the craft and then the first day walking by it, I stuck my hand out and slid it along the craft.
	I just felt cold, so I assume it's metal.
	But it certainly could have been an advanced ceramic or some other unknown material, but it kind of felt like metal.
	Yeah, it was metal has that, you know, cold feeling to it.
	The surface didn't feel exceptionally smooth.
	It was aluminum is the only thing that comes to mind just, you know, unfinished aluminum.
	But I doubt it was actually that.
	Do you think there was any sense of weight?
	In other words, did you ever have an opportunity to see anybody attempting to lift or move any of these craft, getting an idea of the kind of weight they were trying to move?
	No, I didn't.
	The only thing that caught my eye in relation to weight was above the craft, in the hangar, There was one of those suspension cranes with a hook on it.
	And it was rated at 10 tons because they had that in big bold lettering on the side.
	So that makes me think, well, if they in fact use that to move the craft, it weighs less than 10 tons.
	That's about as far as I can go on that.
	But I've heard people make comments that, you know, actually, they only weigh a few pounds.
	But I don't think that could possibly be true.
	Number one, is, you know, at different times moving into the craft, you're sitting on the extreme edge of it.
	And it would certainly teeter plus the amount of equipment they had moved into the craft lights and whatnot.
	For investigation of it, it makes me think it's something of some pretty sizable weight.
	It's not, you know, it's certainly not a flyweight piece of material.
	Bob, you know a lot of the interesting news stories I get about world affairs and maybe wars between India and Pakistan, all the rest of it, they come from the United Kingdom, which I think is embarrassing.
	It annoys me that I've got to get to news I can't get here from the UK.
	Your movie is going to be made in the United Kingdom.
	Are you going to have any input at all during the production of this movie?
	Are they going to fly you over?
	I don't know.
	I imagine they would.
	I imagine I would be put in a position, as technical consultant at the very least, if they wanted to progress in an accurate, truthful fashion.
	And I believe that Bruce did go over that already, so I'll at least be in that sort of position.
	Bob, you have a list of names, which you revealed tonight, of the other people that were there.
	You're speaking right now, I'm certain, to many of those names, and they're listening to you right now.
	What would you say to them at this point?
	I mean, you're out in the public, and your story's been hanging out there now for a lot of years, and now it's going to be even more public with a movie.
	What do you say to the other people that were up there, given a chance, which you have right now, to say something to them?
	Well, you know, that's changed over the years.
	About the only thing I would like to say to them is contact me in some way.
	You would think maybe by now some of them would have gone through a thought process that would bring them to the point where they'd be ready to be in contact with you and maybe others.
	Yeah, and there's obviously a reason they haven't because it's been 12 years.
	Yeah, there is, and they haven't, and you're still alive.
	You wonder about that?
	Not really, because the way things progressed, it would have been really detrimental to the program and to them if all of a sudden I disappeared.
	Probably the only reason for that was John Lear's suggestion and insistence to go into George Knapp at the time.
	Yes, George Knapp is a Las Vegas...
	He's an investigative journalist.
	Investigative journalist, that's right.
	A big time one here in Las Vegas.
	He's done a number of UFO specials over the years and you went to John and John said go public, go to George Knapp.
	Well at the time I think there was a few days there where I hid at John's house.
	I remember that.
	Tensions got pretty high so I just looked for a place I could stay other than my house because I had no idea what was going on and the decision was made to go do that and In fact, George broke in, more or less.
	It was at the top of the five o'clock news in Las Vegas, and I went on in silhouette and said what was going on, and certainly if anything would have happened to me from that point on, it would have cast everything in stone and said, hey, this guy said so-and-so, and it looks like it was true.
	If he was just a nutcase, what would you bother killing him for?
	Well, they didn't erase you, but they kind of erased part of your employment histories
	and as much information as they could about your history with them, right?
	Oh, absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	In fact, Bob Exler was one of the guys that did the research.
	I think he was a NASA systems specialist.
	I don't know about now, but then he was pretty heavy into UFO investigation.
	He had some contacts down at the IRS.
	I let him have all the information.
	My W-2 form from there, you know, with naval intelligence and social security number and, you know, he went after everything.
	And from the IRS, he got notified that information regarding my social security number is classified, that the numbers, the employer designation numbers on my W-2 form, were for I forgot what bizarre government agency but they were valid and I mean he did bring up a lot of good information and ran into a lot of block walls that were completely inaccessible.
	Even your history of Los Alamos was somewhat erased although I'm remembering that you came away or somebody came away with your name On an employment list or a phone list from Los Alamos?
	Yeah, that was the only thing that they couldn't have deleted was the old printed phone list.
	And, you know, that's one of the things.
	On top of that, what proved to be a big plus, too, is remember, again, the Jet Car article.
	In the front page of that newspaper, in the first few paragraphs, now this is a small town, Los Alamos, everybody knows everybody's business, they say, Bob Lazar, a physicist working at the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility, this is the Los Alamos newspaper, so, you know, you can't go back in time and get rid of that paper, so I had that, I had my name in the internal lab phone book directory, so, you know, they were They were stuck with that before.
	They had denied it for years.
	He never lived here.
	He never worked here.
	It's just a big lie.
	They did reach back and erase as much as they were able.
	They just didn't get it all.
	Yeah, George Knapp is the only guy at the time that I, not that I trusted, but also had the ability to do this.
	I flew with him back to Los Alamos and went back to where I worked and to the people I worked with and the areas I got him into in the lab.
	You know, he did a lot of footwork.
	Look, I've had a lot of dealings with George over the years, and I've come to trust him.
	Yeah, he's a very trustworthy guy.
	He certainly is.
	All right, very quickly, just a couple questions.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Bob Lazar.
	Anything real quick?
	Is that me?
	That's you.
	Oh, okay.
	Hi, Mr. Lazar.
	Do you feel that we had any technology, or do we have technology to go to the moon?
	I don't feel that we did.
	Well, you mean you think we never really went to the moon, is that what you're saying?
	Oh, yes.
	You know, a lot of people have been saying this to me just in the past couple weeks.
	There's a good friend of mine, John Farratt, who's kind of a bigwig in Hollywood, and, you know, he absolutely, and this is a real knowledgeable guy, and apparently there was some show on Fox where they aired all the old Apollo films, and I never saw this, but it seems to have convinced him that we never went to the moon.
	I don't know.
	I've spoken to Edgar Mitchell, who was the sixth man on the moon, and it sure seems like he went there.
	But I don't know.
	I really don't know.
	You know, Ed Mitchell made an interesting comment to me.
	I've done many interviews with Ed, and one question that seemed to really stump him was, Ed, do you remember What was it like walking around on the moon?
	He said, you know, it's really strange.
	I just don't remember that many details of the whole thing.
	He said, I obviously remember it, but there are some details that strangely are missing.
	And he did make that comment.
	Impossible to have faked the whole thing, but... Who knows?
	We know that the shuttle goes up there because you can look up in the sky and see it go by.
	You certainly can.
	So, why is it that much more difficult to go to the moon?
	It's not that far away.
	Uh-huh.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Bob Lazar.
	Hello.
	Hello, how are you doing?
	Okay, sir.
	Where are you?
	North Hollywood, California.
	Okay.
	Yes.
	Hi, Bob.
	Hi there.
	Still driving a Corvette?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	Anyway, are you familiar with the Lockheed facility in Burbank?
	The Skunk Works?
	No, not Skunk Works.
	Talk about on the premises of the airport where the Janet flights took off.
	In Burbank?
	Yeah, Burbank, California.
	You worked in the 80s.
	What time do you work at a groom like facility?
	What time?
	The time is varied.
	No, I'm sorry.
	I mean the year.
	That was in 88, 89.
	Okay, so I'll give you a name.
	There's a guy who worked out, I don't know if he worked in your division, but his last name was Hayes.
	Do you know him?
	Alright, well, let's hold it there.
	Do you want to disclose whether the name Hayes is on your list?
	There is a name Hayes on the list.
	There is a name Hayes on the list, really?
	Yeah, there is.
	Now, I don't know if there's a billion hazes in the world, but there's a haze on the list.
	Really?
	Okay.
	Okay.
	There's also a Jones, too.
	I know, but what are the odds?
	Right.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Bob Lazar.
	Hello.
	Yes, sir.
	Where are you, please?
	Here in Pahrump, Nevada.
	Pahrump?
	Oh, and listening to?
	KNYE.
	K-N-Y-E.
	Yes, sir.
	95.1 in Pahrump, Nevada.
	Yes, sir.
	Yes, sir.
	Mr. Lazar, I'm a big fan of yours.
	And I was wondering how you feel about how the government's disavowed your knowledge of you and disrespected your work and everything?
	Well, I am, needless to say, not too thrilled about it.
	There isn't much I can do, but I mean, there will never be a common ground between us.
	You know, as far as I'm concerned, all ties are broken and all promises are broken, too.
	And that's one of the reasons I'm on the air.
	You want to treat me like that?
	Well, guess what?
	Here's what you get.
	Yeah.
	If they came back to you and they said, you know, with all the water that's going onto the bridge, Bob, we've made a lot of progress.
	We'd like to take you up there and show you how much we've done, how far we've come.
	Impossible as this is, if they came to you with that and said, however, there are going to be a million conditions and more security checks and blah, blah, blah, would you be able to turn that down?
	Would you tell them to go fly a kite?
	I would certainly love to do that, but in view of what's gone on, I can't possibly trust them.
	You know, it's a completely remote, isolated area, and once you're there, they could really do anything but say, hey, you're not going home.
	And you wouldn't go home.
	You'd just be not even a lump in the desert, but far below us.
	Who knows?
	I mean, maybe that's all fantasy, but you know, I just, I cannot trust them.
	And I would absolutely love to get back into the technology.
	I mean, it was, it was the greatest scientific experience I've ever had, you know, working with it.
	And I'd love to see what else they've done and, you know, love to lend a hand and become part of the project again, but I can't.
	I'd say the chances of them coming to you like that are zero.
	Just an interesting question.
	These are the Rockies.
	You're on the air with Bob Lazar.
	Hello.
	Bob, you fascinate me by saying what part of your Mercy's thing came from.
	Where did it come from, did you say?
	How can you say that with being definite, sureness in your voice?
	And was your job to reproduce this fuel, and this fuel called 115, and how far did they ever fly this thing, or did they tell you?
	Alright, well, first of all, the assuredness in his voice came from the fact that they told him that's where it came from.
	Correct, Bob?
	Right.
	I did not determine this myself, and again, this is just in a written I don't have any reason to disbelieve it, but because I don't know it for a fact, it just kind of sits in that special place in my mind where it possibly might not be true.
	but it is possible because the other things that I read in the briefings that I did get hands-on experience with are
	accurate and true.
	So I don't have any reason to disbelieve it, but because I don't know it for a fact,
	it just kind of sits in that special place in my mind where it possibly might not be true.
	But again, you know, why throw a lie in there if we're trying to get all this work done
	done and find out what the basis is of this thing.
	The origin of it may have something to do with the operation of it, so I don't think they would have taken the opportunity to lie about it there.
	So, I kind of believe that was true.
	Now, knowing what you know about the drive systems, you said, you referred I think earlier to some of the Belgian sightings, When you consider all the UFO sightings, and I'm sure you've seen a million pictures and moving video now of UFOs and all the rest of it, you think the Belgian sightings were perhaps accurate with what you know about the drive systems.
	Have you seen any other film or stills of UFOs that look like the real McCoy to you?
	Absolutely.
	Because once I started looking into it, now I don't research this stuff anymore.
	And I get a lot of people asking me UFO questions.
	And actually, believe it or not, it doesn't interest me.
	I liked being involved in the project, but I don't, you know, look into UFO stories or research this stuff.
	But when I did, when I said the craft operate in two modes, the Omicron and Delta configuration, when it's transitioning from Omicron to Delta, The way the craft flies through in space is belly first, not flying horizontal like you see in a science fiction movie.
	And as the craft leaves the ground in Omicron mode, they perform a roll maneuver, where the craft raises and, you know, eventually you see it at a 45 degree angle, and then it becomes straight up and down 180 degrees.
	The amplifiers come up to power, they focus on a point, and the craft flies belly first at the target.
	And you see a lot of UFO photographs here and there, with crafts ascending in the sky at a 45 degree angle, but flying up, or sitting at odd angles in the sky, and at least from what I can guess from the photographs, if they in fact are genuine, it looks like the crafter transitioning from one mode to another.
	And so you've seen quite a few of those?
	I've probably seen three or four of those.
	Three or four?
	Yeah.
	So the majority of UFO photos are By you pretty much dismissed, but every now and then one hits you and you say, hey, hey, hey, look at that.
	Yeah, if it has something that clicks somewhere, but, you know, these days, boy, you just take a picture into Adobe Photoshop and, you know, you can make anything.
	I do know.
	Bob, I can't thank you enough for coming on tonight.
	With regard to your movie, Blue Book, do you have any idea what the title might be?
	No idea.
	The only thing they talked about are the people that might play me.
	It's James Spader, Kevin Spacey, or Mark Wahlberg, so... That's about all I know at the time.
	Brother, good luck with the movie, and thank you so much for laying so much new detail on us tonight.
	No problem, Art, and I'd just like to say hi to my buddies Debbie and Nancy out in Chicago, and the incredible Dooger.
	Good night, Bob.
	Good night, Art.
	Alright, there you have it, folks.
	A whole lot of stuff you've never heard before.
	That was Bob Lazar.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast.
	See you tomorrow night.

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