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June 6, 2002 - Art Bell

02:31:06

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Area 51 and UFOs - Bob Lazar

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58:40

bob lazar

01:13:53

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		High desert and the great American Southwest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've been doing all good evening, good afternoon, good morning, whatever the case may be, wherever you are, in whatever part of the world you're in, since we covered just about all of it with a program called Post Coast Man.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, depending on where you are.
		I'm uh in the evening place.
		It's now about seven minutes after ten o'clock.
		Seven after ten, uh, coming up on seven after ten Pacific time right now.
		And I don't know where to begin tonight with the mundane news or the, you know, we're in this window.
		We're in the Truscan window.
		I guess I might as well begin here, huh?
		Truskin, as you know, has made a prediction that there's going to be the biggest UFO sighting of the century, or maybe of a century, I'm not sure, tonight.
		Now, soon.
		The window for it began at 9.50 p.m.
		And as I said, we're at 10.07 and 30 seconds, and that'll tell you how long a delay there is from my voice to your reception, you know, with the delays and such.
		In fact, let's try that just for fun.
		If you're watching the clock, you'll be able to tell how much delay time there is.
		There's a built-in six or seven-second delay, and then there's satellite time for my voice to get to your voice.
		So we're coming up on 10.0854321 mark, 10.08.
		So that'll give you some idea now.
		He said again that between 9.50 and between midnight, so from now until midnight, there's going to be the biggest UFO sighting in a century or in this century.
		There is actually a pretty big difference.
		And we're in that window.
		So if you want to go, here's what I've done.
		If you want to go to my website, and I hope we don't bring it down, I really hope we don't bring it down.
		If you want to go to my website, artbell.com, instead of the usual webcam that I've got there, I have a video camera hooked up to a third-generation night vision scope.
		Pretty wild stuff, huh?
		I've had that for several years.
		And so I've got it pointed at Las Vegas, and I want to explain to you what you're going to see.
		It's taking a picture, it's snapping a picture every minute.
		Now, in between those minutes, should I see something, say, spectacular, you know, whatever, I could snap an instant picture.
		And I want to explain to you, as you take a look at it, what you're going to see if you want to look.
		Otherwise, all you're going to see is, okay, here's the picture.
		On the far left, you're going to see part of a tree.
		Then you're going to see two telephone poles, vertical telephone poles.
		And they're lit up quite brightly, of course, because, well, I don't know why.
		There's some light on them or whatever.
		And night vision is extremely sensitive.
		And then you're going to see a tree on the right.
		And the area in the middle of that, between the two phone poles and the tree, you're going to see kind of a glow.
		You're going to see a glow.
		And that glow is Las Vegas, Nevada, 65 miles away from me.
		So that's the glow that you see between the phone poles and the tree.
		That's Las Vegas, Nevada.
		You're also probably going to see some stars.
		There's not that many stars, but you're going to see some stars in the photograph as well.
		There's many more fruitful areas of the sky.
		If we wanted to look at stars with night vision, I could do that.
		But we're seeing a substantial portion of the skies immediately above Las Vegas, Nevada, from Perrump, Nevada, west of Las Vegas.
		So should anything really spectacular occur in this time period, I think that I would see it.
		I'm going to try and keep my eyes on it.
		It's kind of hypnotic.
		I'm watching it in real time while you get a snap of it every minute.
		That's on my website if you feel like looking.
		Pretty cool.
		What I've done is I've reduced the color saturation, which I can do on the computer.
		And what that does is pull all of the green out of it.
		You know, night vision is normally green, and this would be, except I've pulled the saturation out so that you have a night vision black and white picture from about 65 miles away.
		And again, that glow between the two phone poles and the tree, that's Las Vegas through a mountain pass.
		So we'll see.
		I mean, from here, we may see nothing.
		Or, you know, I may be pointed at the wrong place in the sky, but I figured with the prediction the way it is, best bet, point toward Las Vegas.
		So you've got some ground references.
		Again, let me give it to you one more time.
		A tree on the left.
		Sometimes you'll see a car go by.
		Don't let that, you know, extremely bright.
		Then there's two telephone poles.
	And then there's a glow, an area, kind of a glowing area between the phone poles and the tree on the right.
	And that is Las Vegas.
	That is light from Las Vegas in the night sky here.
	Otherwise, it is a clear night.
	You will see some Las Vegas air traffic.
	And you'll be able to discern that, I'm sure, by the fact that in one picture it's there, and the next picture it's there, you know, one minute apart, going either towards San Francisco or Seattle or back from.
	That would be the route that we'd be seeing in this portion of the sky.
	So I thought, what the hell, we'll put the webcam up, and if anything really wild happens, Maybe we'll get a shot of it.
	I'm prepared to snap one instantly if I see something happening.
	You know what the problem is, though?
	I'm going to have to look away.
	I just realized I've got other things going on, so I can't stare at that screen all the time.
	In fact, I'm going to have to look away.
	I have commercials, I have news, I have stuff I have to do, so I can't sit here and stare at it all the time.
	There's a lot of anticipation out there, I know.
	In fact, here's kind of a side story for you.
	Stung by intelligence failures, our president tonight, in a speech, asked Congress to remake the government with a terrorist-fighting Department of Homeland Security if it should happen.
	The president wants, a new department would inherit 169,000 employees.
	Oh my God, that's a lot of employees.
	And a $37.4 billion budget from the agencies that it would absorb.
	Now, listen to this.
	This agency would absorb the Secret Service, the Coast Guard, and the embattled Immigration and Customs Service.
	Congress welcomed the agency shuffling plan, even as lawmakers intensify their inquiry into lapses before the September 11 attacks.
	They're having this whistleblower hearing going on right now, and it's pretty compelling.
	They were really questioning this young lass very heavily.
	She sent in the infamous memo.
	So that would absorb quite a few ages.
	In other words, the Coast Guard, immigration and naturalization, customs.
	In other words, it'll all be under one banner.
	And that's very interesting.
	It would be under the banner of a terrorist something or another.
	And I wonder if the only thing I wonder is whether some of the natural duties that these agencies perform that are important will get somehow changed or absorbed when they become more of a terrorist fighting agency or Homeland Security terrorist fighting agency.
	I don't know.
	Interesting.
	Yasser Arafat ridiculed suggestions that Israel just might exile him because of the unrelenting Palestinian attacks.
unidentified		Said he, expel me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll die here, he told reporters during a tour of his damaged headquarters on Thursday.
		Israeli tanks and giant bulldozers had had away with part of it, the wall there, and it's kind of a wreck.
		And, you know, every time something happens, why they pull the tanks up to Mr. Arafat's door, sort of, oh, there goes a car.
		Now, see, if it happened to snap one during that, you would have seen an extremely bright light that might have fooled you.
		And that would have been a car, headlight.
		You know, in night vision, they're extremely bright.
		Well, all right.
		At least you've got a little reference in that photograph.
		And I hope it stays up.
		I hope you can see it.
		Winona Ryder ordered to stand trial on charges alleging she shoplifted some $6,000 worth of merchandise from Sax Fifth Avenue.
		$6,000, my God.
		And possessed a drug without a prescription.
		And then her fans are, I guess, doing some kind of boycott or something.
		So, wow.
		That's interesting, isn't it?
		Now, here's something.
		I don't know.
		I'm kind of a fan of World Cup.
		My wife and I were in Paris for the last World Cup.
		And, you know, the French, they play a mean game of soccer, real mean game of soccer.
		And they're always in the top contenders.
		You know, they're right on up there.
		They're either going to win or they're going to be right up there.
		So it's not so good this year.
		The French are in danger of becoming the first defending champions eliminated in the opening round of a World Cup since Brazil in 1966.
		The team followed their stunning 1-0 loss to World Cup newcomer Senegal.
		Ooh, that's embarrassing, huh?
		By Urgue, tying them 0-0 on Thursday, leaving them on the verge of elimination.
		The French eliminated?
		Oh, my God.
		Could it really happen?
		Would anybody really care?
		All right, in a moment, we'll come back.
		Now, I should tell you that I have sources.
		I understand there's a large...
		Bob Lazar is coming up next hour.
		I want to hear from somebody out with the crowd right now.
		And I want to hear how big this crowd is and where they are and that kind of stuff.
		So everybody else, just don't call right now.
		I know that there's a lot of people with Kreskin or wherever it is.
		I want to have a description of where you are.
		So everybody else, hang up, please.
		Only if you have a cell phone and you are with the Kreskin crowd should you call this radio program right now.
		That's all I'm going to take, with the exception of one call here.
		Otherwise, you had better be with the crowd when you call.
		Because I really want to hear what's going on, and I want to bring it to the nation as best I can.
		And the best way I can do that is to use you all as reporters, right?
		So that's the deal.
		Everybody else, I don't care what you have to say, hang up because we want to hear what's going on.
		Anyway, I want to hear what's going on.
		So that means you have to listen to what's going on, I guess.
		The numbers that you can use, first time caller line, 775-727-1222.
		Yeah, 1222.
		That's 775-727-1222.
		Or the wildcard lines at 775, the area code, 727-1295.
		And the east and west of the Rockies lines.
		You can use those too.
		But unless you are with the crowd, unless you are with the Kruskan crowd, do not, repeat, do not call.
		Because along with the photograph that I've got every minute on the webcam, obviously I want to know what's going on out there and where everybody is and all that kind of thing.
		So with all That in mind, and I'll talk a little more about the whole Kruskan prediction in a second.
		we've been getting calls here non-stop about the things so i'll tell you more about it uh...
		in a moment All right, here we are coming up on 1023 Pacific Time right now, and once again, Creskin has made a prediction, and we are in that window right now for what it's worth.
		What I said last night, I'm going to repeat again tonight for those of you who don't know what I think about this.
	I've said what I think, and I'll say it again.
	I can't figure out what the upshot of this is for Creskin.
unidentified		I can't figure it out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If he'd made a prediction for a year or two years, then you could see, yeah, you know, you're going to get your publicity value out of it.
		But to predict something so close term, you know, he predicted it for tonight within the week.
		That makes me wonder.
		He's put up $50,000, if he's wrong, about this UFO prediction that says three or four craft are going to be seen by people in Las Vegas who are with Kreskin and out in the desert.
		And I'm out in the desert.
		I just saw a very neat falling star.
		And I'm sitting here looking at the lights of Las Vegas, as you can be if you wish.
		In the meantime, we are going to try and take calls, with the exception of this one coming up, only from people who are out there with a Kreskin crowd.
		And I know you've got cell phones and cameras, and it's probably like Independence Day, right?
		Shouting for the aliens.
		Hurry up and come in, and we welcome you, and all the rest of it.
		I can't figure out the psychology of what Kreskin has done.
		I just, for the life of me, cannot figure it out.
		Because the downside seems too great for whatever immediate publicity value you get.
		If it doesn't happen, the downside, I mean, people are coming from Australia, right?
		The downside to this is that there'd be angry people, I suppose, if nothing happened.
		And then again, you know, I'm going to qualify this by saying a lot of my audience is out there, I know that, and they know what they're doing.
		They know what a satellite looks like crossing the sky.
		They know what an airplane looks like.
		They know what navigation lights look like.
		They know what the space shuttle, should it come over, would look like.
		All of that.
		So, you know, the majority of the crowd is going to be able to delineate between an event of that sort and the kind of event that Kruskan is talking about.
		So I've really thought hard about this.
		I can't figure out what he's doing, why he's doing it.
		Seems the immediate downside is pretty heavy if he's wrong.
		And, you know, we've got, what, an hour and 35 minutes or so to find out whether he's right or wrong.
		The president gave a speech tonight, and I started to, you know, that I just told you about the combining of the agencies.
		And I just started, I took a few calls during the news at the top of the hour, and one of them said the same thing that several of my emails said.
		So I thought I would bring this gentleman on, and there you are, sir, you're on.
		So during the president's speech, which I did not see about the combining of the agencies and Homeland Security and all the rest of it, you're claiming you saw a UFO.
unidentified		Yeah, I think, I don't know if it started during the middle of the speech, but behind his sort of right shoulder coming out from behind his head was sort of a white glowing sphere, and it kept sort of changing shape, as UFOs are known to do.
unidentified		And when I replayed the tape, because I recorded it, as soon as my wife and I saw that, I just like, my jaw dropped.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right, all right.
		Okay, so you've got this on tape.
		I don't suppose you're not a computer geek, are you?
unidentified		No, I'm not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Damn.
		You see, you could actually do a snap of that and send us a photograph.
		So somebody out there will have taped the President or will get it and do a snap for us and send it to us and we'll get a picture of it up there.
		How about that?
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, that's great.
		There was actually two, though.
		One of them, there was the big one that was on the sort of right side of his ear, but one shot up from behind the trees and it just sort of flickered in and off and went past the other one.
		And I couldn't figure out what else it was.
		I didn't think it was reflecting light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, look, it's well recorded with downtown professional video equipment who'd be, you know, they'd be shooting the president.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I guarantee we will come up with a photograph of it, sir, and we'll all take a look-see, huh?
unidentified		Sounds like a case for Richard Hoagland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		Richard would say no, no, no.
		I don't deal in that stuff.
		Well, I appreciate your call, though, sir.
		Thank you.
		So there might have been something seen behind the president.
		I received a bunch of emails on that, and then, of course, this call.
		All right, now I'm going to say this again.
		Only those of you out there with Crescent need call right now.
		That's all.
		Only if you're out there with Creskin.
		Everybody else, hang up so we can find out what's going on.
		On the first time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		Hi, there.
		I'm out here at the Crescent deal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you are out there.
unidentified		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		And it's over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean it's over?
unidentified		I mean, some people saw some things, and most of us didn't see anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, how do you know it's over?
unidentified		Well, everybody's going home.
unidentified		Crescent turned off the lights and shut down the microphone just a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did Creskin say it was over?
unidentified		Yes, Kreskin said it was over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding?
unidentified		No.
unidentified		And also, you're not going to believe who I was standing behind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who?
unidentified		Daniel Brinkley.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Daniel was there.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did Daniel see anything?
unidentified		As soon as everybody started, well, not everybody, as soon as five or ten people started seeing things, Daniel said he was with two girls, and he said, well, we can gather the kids and go home now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's Daniel, all right.
unidentified		And he said, you know, the girls were saying, well, what do you think is going on?
		And he said, well, they're seeing what they need to see.
		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how many people do you think were out there?
unidentified		I would say probably about a thousand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A thousand people.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how many people do you think started screaming they saw something?
unidentified		About 11 or 12.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't.
		Listen.
		Well, and listen, hold on, sir, all right?
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold on.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		This is Coach.
unidentified		Get it in the dark.
		Get the rain in the pub.
		Meantime.
		No, there isn't your home.
		Everything.
		Ben Boeing.
		Double ball time You feel alright When you hear the music ring
		Bad
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, there.
		You just heard what Ramona saw.
		She was outside, and I wasn't looking at the webcam at that time, so I don't know if it caught any of it.
		But look, we're going to continue for the next few minutes anyway to take calls only from people who are out there in the Kreskin area or were with the Cruscan group.
		It's now said that it's over.
		Let me bring this caller back on.
		You're back on now.
unidentified		Hello?
unidentified		Hi, this is Joel in Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, hey there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, anyway, it's over.
unidentified		It's over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what would you say the majority of the people thought?
unidentified		They thought that we did see some low-flying airplanes go over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kind of like my wife just described?
unidentified		Yes, of course, we're right here by the airport.
		Yeah.
		And that was the consensus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That it was airplanes.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, I'm going to move on and try to get some more witnesses like yourself and try to get a sense of.
unidentified		The only people that saw it were the people that were in the show before he went out there.
unidentified		So it was like a hypnosis deal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I appreciate the call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you in the show?
unidentified		No, I wasn't in the show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then I don't know how you can know that it was a hypnosis deal.
		But that's interesting.
		Very interesting.
		Wes to the Rockies.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I take it you're in Las Vegas?
		That's correct.
		Okay, so what do you have to tell me?
unidentified		Well, I was in the show, and of the 500 people in the showroom, he dismissed about 200 and kept 300, pulled them down to the front of the stage and did a little extra with us.
		I don't really think it was hypnosis.
		We walked in about a quarter of a mile.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, let me stop you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You say he dismissed a couple hundred from the audience, kept about 300, and did what?
unidentified		He actually, I don't think I would call it hypnosis.
		I wouldn't call it a trance.
		I wouldn't even call it a suggestion.
		But he did some of the close your eyes and hold your arm out in front of you, straight, rigid, and now you're unable to put it down and visualize a circle in your palm.
		It's standard mentalist.
		Kreskin is a fabulous mentalist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but what does that have to do with seeing UFOs?
unidentified		Nothing at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nothing.
		Okay, so you went out with a group, right?
		Yes.
		And it was estimated there were 1,000 people there by another caller.
unidentified		I would say 400 to 500.
unidentified		I did not see 1,000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, 400 or 500.
unidentified		He dismissed the crowd at 10.20.
unidentified		I mean, 20 minutes after the hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then it sounds like what my wife saw would have been about the right time, about 10.15.
unidentified		She actually got a better show than we did.
		Really?
		There were maybe many...
		That was it.
		He just said that is the conclusion.
		Everyone is dismissed and good night.
		He made no explanation for what was seen or was not seen.
		The crowd was understandably not very excited because, I mean, after all, we are in the flight path.
		You know, we're right under the McCarran flight path.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then, as you point out.
unidentified		I personally saw nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then, as you point out, my wife apparently had a better view of it than you all did.
unidentified		I believe she did.
unidentified		I personally saw nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of these four airplanes.
unidentified		Correct.
unidentified		I personally saw nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Four airplanes.
		Okay, I appreciate it.
		Thank you very much.
		And you personally saw nothing.
		Okay.
		well you know i have just based on what i'm hearing here it sure sounds like a miss to me but uh...
		i gave you know we're yet to hear from Hello there.
		Are you out there with the Kreskin crowd?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on a cell phone, too, huh?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A hummy one, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's your first name?
unidentified		Tia.
unidentified		Tia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Tia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what's the deal?
unidentified		Well, everyone's saying that they didn't see anything, but I definitely saw something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What'd you see?
unidentified		I definitely saw a couple ships.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You saw a couple of ships?
unidentified		I did.
		I mean, they were saying they saw a lot of low-flying airplanes, which we did see.
		We did.
		But I saw them, and they were very obvious to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you one of the 300 people that Kreskin kept after his show?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No?
unidentified		But I was in the show.
		Yeah, I was in the hypnosis.
		They're saying the hypnosis thing?
		Yeah.
		I was in that, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you were in that?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okie dokie.
		Bless your heart, and thank you very much for the call.
		So she was in that select group, but says she saw something.
		Are you out there with the Kreskin crowd?
unidentified		Oh, no, I'm in North Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		North Las Vegas, yes?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		My daughter and I were looking at a cigar-shaped object that's directly overhead, just about.
		And it's brightly lit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that going on right now?
unidentified		Yes, right now we're both sitting here looking at it, and there's like a smaller object that seems to be moving back and forth away from it.
		Huh.
		It's weird, but it's nowhere near downtown.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I hear you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kreskin said it's already over.
unidentified		Yeah, we were listening to that on the show, so I don't think this has anything to do with that, but this is definitely not a star or anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Something different.
unidentified		It's a cigar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, let's see if we get more reports of it.
unidentified		Yeah, this is in North Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you very much, sir, for the report, and take care.
		You know, there's going to be a lot of sightings with a lot of things.
		I mean, there were a lot of people out, of course, just watching.
		And, you know, when you pay attention to the sky, you see things that some of them are hard to explain.
		Just comes from looking.
		People don't usually look at the sky, but I'm still saying I think from what I'm hearing so far, this doesn't sound like much to me.
		Doesn't sound like a hit to me.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
		This is Ginger.
		I'm out at the site.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Ginger.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So let's.
unidentified		I was one of the ones that was hypnotized or whatever you call it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		I don't know if he was giving suggestions and stuff.
		And I thought, you know, I'm very successful.
		I thought I'd see something.
		And we saw planes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Planes.
unidentified		But it was a great scene.
		There was lots of people.
		They're selling beer and water.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Beer and water.
unidentified		That's a great.
		For free.
		I got a free Kreskin book.
		Free Kreskin pictures were passed out by the radio station.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, dear.
		Yes, dear.
		But the all-critical thing is you didn't see a damn thing, huh?
unidentified		Not really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so, I mean, what was it like when Kruskan stood up there and said, it's over?
unidentified		I didn't hear that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you didn't?
unidentified		I didn't hear that.
unidentified		His mic wasn't very loud.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		But, you know, when we were in the little room there and he was like telling us what was going to happen, we were going to see something.
		We were going to get a message.
		He says, when I drop the handkerchief, then you're going to, you know, that's when it's going to start happening.
		Just remember what you saw and tell everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so he went out there and he dropped a handkerchief.
unidentified		Dropped a handkerchief twice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Twice.
unidentified		And then, you know, we'd see in planes and people, isn't that the flight pass?
unidentified		Oh, yeah, I guess it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, flight passes.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's exceeding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, go ahead.
unidentified		There's one other thing that I can't figure out is he said it was like from 9.50 till midnight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Why did he leave at 10.15?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, because he said it was all over.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One of our callers said he said it was all over.
unidentified		Right.
		But, you know, he's the one that said till midnight, so you would think he would hang.
		You know, it's like, what up?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, yeah, you're right.
		It's a very good point, and I appreciate your making it.
		Thank you.
unidentified		Yeah, thanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I don't know.
		It sounds like a bust to me.
		You know, it sounds like they were airplanes, and it sounds like they're exactly the same thing my wife saw coming from this side, you know, as she pointed out in the San Francisco flight path, and that there were four of them, but they were definitely airplanes.
		So there's obviously going to be local television coverage and that sort of thing, and we'll see how they report it.
		But based on talking with those of you that were on the scene so far, it looks like fooy to me.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
		No, you're not.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, this is Star Bell Show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you at this affair?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what pretty well did you see?
unidentified		I thought I saw something, but it flashed across the sky so fast that I couldn't really tell what it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hmm.
unidentified		some kind of light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you in with the crowd that...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were.
unidentified		One of the crowds, I suppose, who was hypnotized or whatever you want to call it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you see all this when the handkerchief fell?
unidentified		Shortly after, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Shortly after.
		All right.
		I appreciate the testimony.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think we're getting a picture here, huh?
		Just talking to people is the best way to get a picture of what happened.
		You beginning to get a picture of what happened out there?
		I am.
		I certainly am.
		On the first time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, turn your radio off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
unidentified		Hurry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, turn the radio off.
unidentified		Hurry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hurry to turn that radio off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, they've still got it on.
unidentified		I know.
		We're turning it off.
		Is that better?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so you're, I take it you're out with what was the crowd?
unidentified		Yeah, actually, we're out at Blue Diamond and Industrial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, okay.
unidentified		And a lot of people showed up.
		I would say, I mean, they had police control, everything out here.
		The only thing that I've seen, which was on a satellite pattern, however, the only thing that I saw was a very green light, but it took the same pattern as a satellite, but it was very bright green.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did it move across the sky at a regular rate?
unidentified		No, it was much slower than a plane, but much, and it was actually slower than a satellite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, what was promised?
		Look, what was promised was three or four craft and the biggest sighting of the century.
		And I don't think we got that.
		Do you?
unidentified		No, I'm waiting.
		But you know what?
		He said till midnight.
		I'm not really sure if he left or what the deal is with that because I'm not privy to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got callers telling me he left.
		Now, we'll play it on the safe side and wait till midnight.
		But Priscilla apparently said it's over.
unidentified		You know what?
		I'm not privy to that conversation.
		However, I am out here and there are literally hundreds of people still out here, probably maybe even a thousand people still out here.
		A lot of people have left, but there's still a lot of people out here.
		So I'm waiting to see what's going to go on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's going to happen?
unidentified		Yeah, I want to see something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand, and I understand that was a motivation for a lot of people.
		So you're actually at a different location.
		Blue Diamond, it's kind of dark out toward Blue Diamond, away from the city a little bit, and not as dark as we have it over here.
		But it's darker.
unidentified		Oh, it's very dark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you're telling me at that location, there's like a thousand people, huh?
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
		Yeah.
		Easily.
		I mean, we're about 50 yards away from where they had all the big lights in the sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		You know, they had like the, you know, they had the big lights on.
		They turned the lights off at 10 o'clock and da da da.
		And the news stations were out here.
		And yeah.
		So, I mean, they're still here.
		Everybody's Still here.
		A lot of people have left, but there are a lot of people still here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, okay.
		The word is that Kreskin, just so you know, apparently, according to my other caller, said it's over.
		It's over.
unidentified		Well, it ain't over for me, honey.
unidentified		I'm staying till midnight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You hang in there.
		You hang in there.
		I'll see you later.
		All right, good.
		She's going to stay till midnight, fine.
		And there is a plane crawling across right now, bright plane.
		I'm watching the skies above Las Vegas.
		And there's a pretty bright plane that's crossing right now.
		That's a night vision camera I've got on.
		And again, you're seeing on the left two telephone poles.
		Then you're seeing a little glow in the sky.
		That's Las Vegas.
		And then the tree on the right.
		Those are closer.
		Oh, I'd say it was about a half mile away.
		And then you're seeing a big piece of the sky of Las Vegas on my webcam.
		Now, Ramona did see the apparent airplanes.
		That's what more people than not are calling what was seen.
		That's what it was.
		This is going to be in bus territory, I think.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		You're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		It's Kate from Out There TV.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Kate.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I just had an opportunity to interview Mr. Creskin about what he just did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Would you like me to play it for you?
		I have it on tape.
		You should be able to hear it.
		I'll play just a bit.
		And if you can hear it, do you want me to let it go?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, go ahead.
unidentified		Okay.
		for KPVM Channel 41 and the rock bar bell.
		There's so many, many, and exciting.
		Many, and I'm afraid I didn't see one, and I don't believe it.
		Did you get that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I heard that.
unidentified		I'll continue.
		So did you really see something?
		Saw it in your mind.
		And actually, what we were doing, were you at the end of the day where I said that I was showing a technique that could be used by enemies, enemies.
		It had nothing to do with physical.
		It had to do with human family.
		So does it make you feel bad at all that a lady just spent $600 to come down here from Seattle, Washington on her own money?
		I didn't tell her to do that.
		No, no, but you made the people believe that it would be able to be seen anywhere inside of the market.
		Well, you did.
		I heard you say that, sir.
		I was there Monday night.
		How's that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I heard all that.
		So listen, I've taken a whole bunch of calls, and so far, some people said they saw airplanes.
		My own wife saw airplanes from this side of the hill.
		That was it, though.
unidentified		That's all I saw.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's all you saw is airplanes.
unidentified		But we did have somebody who was in our group, and she does claim to see it, and we're going to have her talk about it on out there tomorrow or Sunday night.
unidentified		But none of us saw it, and there were like 30 of us together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So would you say the general consensus was that it was a bust?
unidentified		It was a bust.
		It was a hoax.
		It was a cheap trick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for your call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
unidentified		That's an opinion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what I wanted to do tonight was to get on here and to give you a sense of what was going on.
		And I think you've got it.
		I'll try one more here.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I wasn't part of the Crescent crowd, but I do have something to tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, where are you, first of all?
unidentified		Well, me and my girlfriend were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, Derek, stop.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Right now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, in what city?
unidentified		Oh, Las Vegas, Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, okay.
unidentified		We're out here right now.
		We're sitting out here in the middle of the desert.
		Well, we'd taken our horses and we were going up to Podisie so that we could see this phenomenon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And we didn't make it because my truck broke down and we had to break down up at Red Rock.
		And this was about 8.40 tonight.
		Here we are.
		Didn't make it.
		And we saw something up at Red Rock.
		It was an amber and it blew out four different times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Huh, I saw that too.
		Those were four flares, and I saw them go up myself.
		Those were flares.
unidentified		Okay, well, I didn't know that.
unidentified		I knew I saw something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I saw four flares over POTESI at different positions over POTESI, and you could tell they were flares because they went up, and they were orange, and then they faded right out the way flares do.
unidentified		This was over by Red Rock?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you would have seen it from that direction, but I saw it from this direction.
		It was actually over POTC, and you could see, it was clearly flares.
		And if you think about it, how they went up, they went up, you could see them going up, then they flared up at the top, and then they faded away.
		Those were flares.
unidentified		Okay.
		Well, you know what?
		I've never seen anything like that before.
		It was pretty intriguing.
		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you're very welcome.
		Those were four flares.
		And I saw those because I was out setting up the webcam at that time.
		And I said, oh, man, look at that flares.
		And I called my wife out, and she saw one of them, too.
		Those were four flares that somebody fired.
		But, you know, if somebody wanted us to think those were UFOs, they out our mind.
		Those were absolutely flares.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So Creskin saying it's all over.
		I think that I gave you a pretty good picture.
		I hope I did, of what's going on out there tonight, just over the hill from me.
		Coming up next.
		And in a way, I'm thanking Creskin for declaring this over.
		And we'll just leave it.
		I think you've got good impressions of what happened.
		We'll just leave it right there because we have a hell of an interview to do.
		This is the real McCoy coming up.
		Bob Lazar.
		Now, this is a physicist who worked at Area 51.
		So I'm kind of glad the other story is clear of us now and that you understand, just as I do, everything we just heard in this last hour.
		However, coming up, what's coming up next, if you've never heard Bob Lazar's story, you are really in for a treat.
		He worked with alien craft at Area 51S4, actually.
		And he's got new information.
		If you've heard the story before, he says new information tonight.
		All of that should be coming up next.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the mid-1980s, A fascinating story emerged.
		A man claiming to have worked out at a test site designated S4, which is part of the Groom Lake test site, came forward to tell his remarkable story to local Las Vegas news anchor George Knapp.
		I'll bet you George Knapp was out there at the Crescent Affair tonight with cameras.
		The man was Robert S. Lazar.
		Bob never claimed to have made contact with, worked with, or has ever seen any aliens at S4.
		But he did claim to have worked on a revolutionary propulsion system, seen saucer-shaped craft in a hangar built into the side of the mountain, and witnesses live trials, had witnessed live trials of a man flying disc.
		His story made headlines around the world, brought hundreds of thousands of people to the desert, spawned a multi-million dollar publishing and merchandising circus, and shook up a country to the core of its beliefs.
		It is worth noting that for nearly 15 years now, Bob Lazar has never tried to embellish his story, change it, and neither the U.S. military nor the government has ever denied any of it to be true.
		Bob Lazar, the man behind The Legend of Area 51, as the center of a massive U.S. government cover-up surrounding craft alien spacecraft, has recently signed a deal with U.K.-based Blue Book Films to finally bring his unique story to the screen.
		And this is a man who does not do interviews.
		He's even worse than I am.
		I mean, he's very shy, probably somewhat reclusive.
		I get accused of being reclusive a lot, and I am.
		And I guess Bob is too.
		Bob, are you reclusive?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I guess you could say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You hardly ever do any interviews.
		I had one or two with you over many years, and that's been about it.
		I mean, you have not given that many, have you?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		No, I really hate doing interviews.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do know.
		And I hate them, too.
		And I refuse almost all of them.
		Every now and then I'll do one.
		I don't know why.
		But I hate them.
		And I especially hate television.
		I agree.
		However, your story is really important.
		It's so important.
		They're now going to finally do a movie about it.
		How do you feel about them doing a movie about you?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, this is the third try.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Initially, Columbia Pictures wanted to do a movie some years back, and they hired a writer and spent somewhere around $400,000 to pay this guy to write the story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my goodness.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		That's a tremendous amount of money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, essentially, it's just a chronological list of events that you're going to have to form into a movie.
		However, writers want to get creative.
		Oh, yeah, of course.
		And, you know, this guy turned it into a James Bond story.
		There were actual scenes of the guy playing Bob Lazar running on the tops of cars that were parked on Las Vegas Boulevard and the silhouette of the erupting volcano in the background.
		And they had robots holding me underground, trying to drown me to stop me from talking.
		I mean, some real ridiculous stuff.
		And, you know, my point is, if you're going to go make up a story about flying saucers, don't bother using my name.
		Just go ahead and make up a story.
		But if it's going to be accurate to the facts, then it has to be accurate to the facts.
		I understand.
		There has to be a little glitter put in it somewhere to make the story flow or whatever makes Hollywood happy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but that's too much glitter, though.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you've got to stick to the facts and make it at least somewhat factual.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you got a chance to read this and said, I'm sorry, I'm not associating with this or what?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, they never give you right of refusal to the script if you're dealing with a movie company, and I'm sure you know that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then you go, oh, my God, what have they done to me?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		But the only thing you can really do is just say, you know, hey, I'm not going to support it.
		Because they essentially force you to go do other interviews on TV and whatnot.
		And, you know, they're going to sit you down.
		And the first thing you're going to say, well, is this an actual account of your life?
		And you're going to have to say no.
		And, you know, there goes the movie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The thing is, though, that the real story itself is so compelling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or have we gone so far into the world of science fiction that as compelling as your story is, and it's an incredible story, it's not enough for the screen without embellishment?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Maybe not.
		There's no explosions.
		There's no shootouts with aliens.
		It's just an account of events that happened at a secret installation out in Nevada.
		And the exact same thing happened with New Line, who bought it from Columbia.
		They tried it.
		They tried to produce the film, but first they tried to get it written and get it into production.
		And they hired another writer.
		And one of the first things I said was make sure you get a guy that's familiar with science to some degree because it's a technical film.
		And the first day I met this guy, they flew him down.
		He said, now, what are these things called atoms again?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, really?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		This is a terrible start.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So now, what about this new company?
		Okay, so what about this new company, Blue Book, that's got it now?
		What's the promise?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, supposedly, and everything so far that I've heard, sounds like they're going to follow an actual account of the events that happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of your story.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Which is great.
		You know, that's fine.
		I've got no problems with that at all.
		And they're really not going to embellish anything.
		They're not going to say anything that didn't happen.
		And what more could you ask for?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Let's get the real story.
		Bob, you're a physicist, correct?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was at one time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I'm not doing anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
		Take me back to way before S4 and before Area 51 and all the rest of it, and just tell me something about yourself.
		I mean, how did you get interested in the things you're interested in that eventuated in your getting that job?
		How did you get to be who you are?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wonder how far I should go back.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I guess that at one point I had moved to New Mexico in the early 80s, and that was to take on a job with Los Alamos National Lab.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of work?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was physics.
		That was at the Los Alamos Maison Physics Facility, which now has a different name.
		It's been quite a while ago.
		But at the time, we were running experiments on their linear accelerator there and really looking into the basic makeup of matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty exciting work, period.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it was fantastic.
		It was a lot of fun working there.
		Very strange town to live in.
		But I enjoyed it quite a bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long were you with Los Alamos?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Los Alamos, I believe I was there only a couple years before I realized that, you know, hey, I could make a lot more money on my own just operating as a contractor and consulting for the lab as opposed to working for them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That happens a lot.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Oh, and it was certainly worth doing.
		So I left the lab and at that time started Lazar Energy Systems.
		And we developed, designed, and repaired radiation detection equipment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Radiation detection equipment.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Specifically, alpha radiation detection, which is the type of particles given off by plutonium.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And Los Alamos, making bombs and that sort of thing has a lot of plutonium laying around, so they want to be able to detect even minute particles that may cling to clothing, so on and so forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, this was a sort of a protective detective device for human beings.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		They essentially frisk you with it when you leave.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		It also scans the floors and cars as they leave, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was that a pretty good business to be in?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		It was fantastic.
		It was absolutely fantastic at the time.
		And we were awarded a government contract about four years in a row, and things were great.
		I did still go down to the lab a lot because I knew people there.
		And one day there was a local Los Alamos newspaper called The Monitor.
		And, you know, at the time I was building all kinds of strange projects and was really into building things with jet engines in them and built race cars.
		And I even built a little Honda passenger car that had a jet engine in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A jet engine in a car.
		How does that work, Bob?
		How does a jet engine in a car work?
		I mean, there's this famous myth of the guy who plowed himself into a mountain with jets.
		I mean, how does a jet work?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		That was a JATO rocket.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That JATO rocket.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a famous urban legend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		is are but but in real life uh...
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		how in god's name do you So you could drive the car around normally and then push a lever and the license plate would open up, exposing the nozzle to the jet.
		You could fire that up and take off at high speed.
		And they had put that on, I think it's the June 82 front page of the monitor newspaper.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what kind of jet engine was that, do you recall?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		It's a pressure jet engine, which is kind of a, it's a jet engine with no moving parts at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, if you know how jet engines, turbojet engines and the like work, generally that's real confusing because you need some moving parts in there to make things go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And it's not a ramjet, and ramjets need to be moving extremely high speed before they can produce thrust.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		But this is kind of a strange hybrid, and it produces thrust statically without it moving.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really cool.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much thrust, you know?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		That was about 2,000 pounds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		two thousand three sixteen hundred pound car that was So in other words, you're already moving at like, what, 50, 60 miles an hour when you let go?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then what?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, and then you better hold on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, how fast, I mean, it takes you from 60 to what?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		212 was the fastest we ever had that car going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		212 miles an hour?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You out your mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where were you driving these things?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, the high-speed run was done at El Mirage Dry Lake in California.
		And the car was pretty much retired after that because it was a unibody construction, and the whole car started pretty much bending from all the forces.
		But, I mean, the only reason I brought up the whole jet car thing was that...
		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you have a death wish?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		No, that kind of stuff isn't dangerous if you know what you're doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, for example, the car had shaken apart during, you know, maximum thrusting.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but it didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it bent itself up pretty well, huh?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		that was kind of expected.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I know that you have a car that I Yeah, that was a 1978 Trans Am.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And, in fact, I entered that in an alternate fuels contest, which was a race at that time from Woodland Hills to California to Kitt Peak, Arizona.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And it drove non-stop there on one tank of fuel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, that's interesting because that's a long time ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And now, all of a sudden, President Bush is saying we are going to begin moving toward a hydrogen economy.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, we should.
		I mean, It's the perfect fuel.
		In fact, I was just talking to my girlfriend the other day saying, I think I'm going to go ahead and convert our existing car over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And I kind of miss making my own fuel.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's essentially free.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but here's the question.
		And I talked to a lot of people about this, Bob.
		Right now, I think the oil companies imagine hydrogen is fine because they'll use fossil fuels to put the hydrogen, to create the hydrogen and get it in the cells.
		You still have to use energy to make energy, right?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		However, there are other ways.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Now, of course, the oil companies and the gas companies want you to crack hydrogen from methane or some other hydrocarbon fuel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		That's ridiculous.
		You're defeating the whole purpose of using hydrogen.
		Water is H2O.
		Now, you know, every school kid knows you take a glass of water, you know, add just a drop of salt in there to get the ions moving around, and take a 12-volt battery and put the positive and negative leads in there, you see one lead let off a little bit of bubbles and the other lead lets off twice as much bubbles.
		Well, the lead with twice as much bubbles is the H2 and the O2 is coming off the other one.
		So just running a little electricity through water gives you a flammable gas the way to make hydrogen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so other than the creation of the voltage to do that, which...
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		cracked the hydrogen out of water and during the night it was pressurized using the available water pressure into the hydrogen tanks which contained an iron titanium hydride it's kind of a granular substance that absorbs hydrogen like a sponge soaks up water as opposed to just compressing a tank with hydrogen which is a dangerous
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		No, once it's chemically stored in the hydride, you can shoot incendiary bullets at the tank, and it just does nothing but smolder.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the gas itself could be dangerous.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but the tank only produces as much gas as the car needs at the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		The way the setup that I came up with is that the car radiator fluid heats an outer jacket on the tank, and when the hydride heats up, it evolves hydrogen, and it gets into the carburetor.
		So there's never more than the volume of hydrogen that fits in the tube from the tank to the carburetor or fuel injection system.
		So it was a very safe system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, what about the car itself?
		The performance of the car compared to a piston engine?
		What was the performance like?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Are we talking about the hydrogen car or the jet?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, the jet.
		I can imagine that.
		No, the hydrogen car.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		The hydrogen car, it is a piston car.
		And, you know, the beauty of the system is you can convert any existing piston car to run on hydrogen.
		But you just need to retard the timing because hydrogen burns so much faster.
		The flamethrower just flashes through the cylinders and it'll cause detonation or knocking.
		But with a couple minor modifications, any car can run on it.
		And you do lose a little horsepower because there's a difference between spraying a flammable gas in there as opposed to having a liquid hydrocarbon with all that carbon energy in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you say a little, how much real difference in performance?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, I lost a significant amount in the Trans Am.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And probably I believe the car was 220 horsepower, and I think I was down to about 150 running on hydrogen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, but still usable then.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, you weren't following electric cars by any means.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's pretty good.
		That's damn good, actually.
		So why not do that now to all cars?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I am.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I'm going to convert my car over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You already told me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your wife is okay with this, right?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bob, hold on a sec.
		Right at the bottom of the hour.
		I'm Art Bell.
		And you're listening to Coast to Coast AM.
		My guest is Bob Lazar.
unidentified		I've been where the eagle flies, rode his wings across all the skies, kissed the sun, touched the moon, but he left me much too soon, his ladybird.
		He left his ladybird.
		Ladybird, come on down.
		I'm here waiting on the ground.
		Ladybird, I'll treat you good.
		Ladybird, I wish you would.
		Ladybird, I wish you would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here is Bob Lazar.
		It's good that you've told us some of this, Bob.
		It gives everybody a background for what kind of guy you are and what you've been doing.
		Sounds like you've been having a hell of a lot of fun, actually.
		I mean, putting a jet in a car, that's got to be a lot of fun.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		It's a crazy thing to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And a lot of people, if you ever, do you have a website?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a website about me that's not mine.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		My website is unitednuclear.com, which is scientific supplies and whatnot that we sell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somebody was hoping you'd post the process for the creation of hydrogen on some website somewhere or something.
		Well, they'll have to dig back in the archives and listen.
		All right, so now how did you get involved, if you can remember the first moment or the first contact that anybody made with you regarding Area 51 and S4 and all that stuff over here?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is the reason why I brought up the jet car initially.
		That day, in June 82, the front page of the Los Alamos Monitor newspaper Had a picture of me and the jet car on it.
		And on the flip side of the front page, there's an announcement there that Edward Teller, father of the hydrogen bomb, was going to be giving a lecture down at one of the lecture halls at the lab.
		And I was anxious to hear the lecture.
		So thinking there were going to be lots of people there, I got there really early.
		Because at the time, I was still working for the lab.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Or was it?
		Now I'm trying to remember.
		I was still working for it.
		But in either case, I got to the lecture hall real early.
		And as it turned out, there was nobody there.
		And now I'm kind of waiting around.
		About 15 minutes goes by.
		And I see Ed Teller sitting on a little wall outside the hall reading the front page of the newspaper, which I thought was a perfect segue for me to introduce myself because, you know, he's sitting there reading about me.
		And I always wanted to meet the guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And so I went and introduced myself and we talked for a bit.
		And actually, the lecture got delayed a little bit.
		So we had walked around.
		And I got to talk to the guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was he like out of curiosity?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, how did he strike you?
unidentified		He's a very stubborn guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stubborn.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And it's a feeling you get speaking to most of the older scientists and physicists at almost every lab I've seen.
		You can't present them with anything new that they didn't think of first.
		You know, they're scientists.
		They're supposed to be open-minded and explore new ideas and things, but there is nobody as closed-minded as a scientist or physicist that's been in the business for over a decade.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you remember the conversation that made you form that opinion?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		No, this is an opinion not just based on him, but based on the other scientists and physicists that I've worked with.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		They all act exactly the same.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, and you caught the same drift from him.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, identical.
		And anyway, I got to see the lecture, and time passed.
		And actually, as time went on, I moved out of Los Alamos and moved to Las Vegas.
		And after some time there, involved in other businesses, I kind of missed being back in the mainstream science field and started sending out resumes.
		EG ⁇ G and I wonder who else was around there at the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People might not know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		EG ⁇ G is, I think they're a contractor for Area 51, for the test site.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		For the test site, right.
		They're EG ⁇ G measurements.
		In fact, those are the guys that, in fact, Edinger, who's the E in EGNG, is the guy, I think, that invented the flash, the xenon flash bulb or high-speed flash photography, something like that.
		Because EGNG started out as the company that came up with a way to photograph the atomic tests, which was really difficult.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Big flash.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Big flash would be very hard to photograph.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, very high-speed.
		And they wanted to actually see the fireball expanding as it cracks the case and moves apart.
		And you're talking over a million frames a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And they came up with some fantastic cameras.
		In fact, I was just told the other day by a movie studio executive that all those old cameras found their way into most of the motion picture companies now.
		And they use them for special effects, all those atomic bomb cameras.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we get a lot of scientific advance from defense, if you wish to call it that, and the defense industry.
		Of course, they develop the latest stuff, I guess, so that's not a surprise.
		So you applied to EG?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I'd sent a resume to everywhere that was in driving distance.
		Now, there wasn't a whole lot in Las Vegas, but I gave it a shot.
		And what I also did was I sent one to Dr. Teller, who was at Livermore at that time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hope anybody remember you, I'm sure.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Right, and I referenced our meeting and so on and so forth.
		And, you know, any suggestions, you know, just pass them along.
		And I believe it wasn't too long after that that I got a call from EGNG.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Now, at that time, EGNG was located at McCarran Airport.
		ETO's EGNG Special Projects.
		And for the people who lived in Las Vegas a long time, they remember that.
		They've since moved it behind the fence at Nellis Air Force Base.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they said to you, what?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		They told me to come down for an interview.
		I did.
		And apparently, this was under the recommendation of Dr. Teller, which was fantastic.
		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you know that, by the way, at the time?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I think I found that out after, if I recall.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in this interview, what did they want?
		What were they after?
		What were they curious about?
		What did they want to know?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		The initial interview was for a lesser position.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And I was interviewed by a board of people over a span of about an hour and a half.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's some interview.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was pretty intimidating.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		You know, it was an uncomfortable interview.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you recall any of the key questions I asked you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An hour and a half, my God.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Not for that, because I did go back for another one.
		Oh.
		I mean, they did ask me.
		One of the strange things I found about it was that they weren't asking me that many technical questions.
		They were asking me questions about my demeanor, about what I do under stress.
		If I get all angry, do I start throwing screwdrivers and things around?
		Which was kind of weird.
		You expect Them to, you know, certainly have.
		Well, they did have some technical questions and test my abilities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, that is, though, not that irrational a question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've thrown screwdrivers.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, generally, I don't.
		I just, you know, give up and walk away for a while.
		Yeah, I know.
		But I assume what they were doing was just they knew of my work at Los Alamos and the other things I was doing, and they just assumed that it fit the bill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, but they wanted to know about your demeanor for some reason.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Right, and as it turned out, this all had to do with security, as I found out later.
		But I went home.
		I wasn't that thrilled about the interview, and it was several days later I got a call back, and they said, you know, as it turned out, we felt you were overqualified for the job we were offering, and we're pretty sure you would become bored with it after a while.
		However, there is something else that we have.
		It's at a re I'm trying to remember verbatim what they said.
		I believe it's at a remote site on the test site, so you will have to fly out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And everybody should know that those flights leave every single day from Las Vegas and go up to the test site right now.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		At the time they were called the Key Flights because Key Something Airlines had the contract.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they still fly every day.
unidentified		Do they?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I do.
		Oh, sure.
		I didn't know if the test site was still operational now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		It is.
		We have here in Parump, it's kind of interesting, the test site that doesn't exist.
		We have every morning, they may have stopped it now, but up at the VFW Lodge up the street from me here, they have a parking lot at VFW Lodge, and they have buses at about, I don't know, like four or something in the morning, a little bit before five in the morning, and on the side of the bus it says Area 51.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		No kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no kidding.
		Yeah, no kidding.
		And they pile in, and they bus from here in Perrump, but there in Las Vegas, they fly, and they still fly.
		So, yeah, you're right about that.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, they had me come down for an interview that was a little more in-depth that time, and I did very well.
		And they would say it would, or they told me that it was going to be fairly heavy security, and it was going to be working on an advanced propulsion system.
		And I thought, that's great.
		This is exactly what I want to do.
		Here's the guy that's tinkering around with jets and running on hydrogen.
		I mean, propulsion was my thing.
		It's stuff I even played around with when I was at home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A natural thing for you.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		You know, certainly excited about it.
		And I was under the impression that this was going to be a field propulsion system for some new fighter aircraft, a field propulsion system like some sort of electromagnetic drive, something that uses some of the basic forces of repulsion and attraction, whether it's extremely high voltage or who knows what.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bob, at that time, you obviously knew about the test site.
		Everybody knows about the test site.
		Did you know about some, you know, had you heard the rumors of a secret base up there way back then?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I'm trying to remember.
		I probably did.
		In fact, thinking back, I probably almost remember there were some silly stories about aliens working out there and whatnot.
		And, you know, I was a hardcore non-UFO believer.
		I mean, I thought all that stuff was absolutely ridiculous, and the people that believed it were even more ridiculous.
		So I didn't pay much attention to any of that stuff.
		But I think I did hear, you know, on KLS-TV or something, or one of George Knapp's interviews with John Lear or something like that, that there were aliens working up there or eating people or whatever the story was about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, yeah, those were back in the days.
		In fact, I was doing shows on it with John Lear back then.
		And so those rumors were around.
		So you sort of vaguely knew about them, but didn't pay a lot of attention.
		And so did you have any idea where you were going to be working?
		Did they tell you that?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		No, they just said a remote site, a remote area on the test site.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, wherever that was going to be, it was fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's got to get your blood going a little bit.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, it does.
		I was excited, and it was a job on the cutting edge of technology, so I was back at home again.
		They had a strange way of calling me to work.
		It was initially, apparently I was supposed to be replacing somebody.
		And there was kind of a rush to get me up to speed.
		Now, because I worked at Los Alamos, I had Q clearance, which is civilian top secret.
		So, you know, they knew I wasn't a foreign agent or anything like that.
		However, this required a higher clearance to work at the site.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Higher than Q. Right.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And what happened next?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they probably investigated you is what happened.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they started doing that.
		And there were visits to the house.
		Even when I had a house full of people over, guests having a little get-together, there would just be guys knocking at the door and would just show themselves in and start looking through the house.
		And, you know, lots of people witnessed this stuff going on.
		And it began to really interfere with my life.
		Shortly after the investigation started, they allowed me out to the site.
		Now, they didn't start handing over everything or showing me everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you get to the site?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I drove.
		Well, first they'd call.
		The job was not something like on 9 to 5 or every day at 7 o'clock to be there.
		You were almost on call initially, and somebody would call from EG ⁇ G, and the phone call would go exactly like this.
		You pick up the phone and they say, hello, Mr. Lazar.
		It is now 4.43 p.m.
		We expect you to be at the installation at 6.25.
		It was always an odd number.
		And that's it.
		And they hang up the phone.
		It's very strange.
		But every time I went out there, I pick up the phone, they tell me what the current time was, and they tell me what the time they expected me out there was.
		And I drive out to McCarran Airport.
		I drive to the Special Project CGNG building.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And right in back of that at the time is really where the key flights took off from.
		Or at least where they parked.
		Anyway, that was the gateway to getting on the plane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did they block the windows out?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's stories that people who traveled up there.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Not there.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		But once you got, the plane flew from McCarran to Groom Lake, which is the only big runway out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's really big.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's giant.
		Once you get there, you get in a bus and drive about 15 miles south.
		That was the bus with the blacked-out windows.
		Those stories are definitely true.
unidentified		In fact, I've got a picture of one of the buses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many people typically would be in that bus ride with you going south?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I never saw more than three people, myself included.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		Wow.
		Okay.
		So your initial employment, was that just at the test site, or did they begin taking you south to Eswor immediately?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		They began taking me to Esfor immediately.
		In fact, we weren't really allowed to wander around or anything at Groom.
		We just sat there, waited either at the cafeteria or right where we were for the bus if it wasn't there, and it drove us down south to S4, which is a short drive on a dirt road.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, of course, they don't admit any of that even exists out there, but there are now zillions of photographs, courtesy of the Russians, and other satellites and even planes that have been nearby.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of photographs of Area 51, so we all know it's out there, and we all know the runway's there, despite what they say.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people even disputed the road that I talked about and said, no, it's impossible for it to be there.
		And John Andrews, the guy that worked for the Tester Model Corporation that was so into all of this, he's the one that came up, you know, that tried to buy the satellite photograph from the U.S. government, and they wouldn't sell it to him because they said it's classified.
		And he's the one that bought it from the Russians for $1,500.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is he really the one?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's where that photograph came from.
		And with that photograph, we blew it up, and there's the road exactly where I said, going right to the side of the mountain where the hangers are.
		So that really did help out.
		But it's kind of strange that Americans have to go to a foreign country to get stuff that they're hiding from Americans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, especially the Russians.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		That's just absurd.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember clearly, and I bet you do, the first day that you took that bus to S4?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you know it was called S-4?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They told you you're going to an area called S-For.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		There's actually signs out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are signs?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there are actual signs out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The average person never gets to see them.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good place to hang everybody up.
		Hold on, Bob.
		It's time of the hour.
		Bob Lazar is my guest.
		This is a man who worked where the real saucers are.
		Or were.
		I guess I could be probably inspired.
		But when he was there, he got to actually work on alien aircraft.
		back engineering alien aircraft this is coast
unidentified		it is night my body's weak I'm on the run no time to sleep I've got to ride right like the wind to be free again and I've got such a long way to go again, Bob Lazar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bob, can you remember the first ride down to S4 in the bus, blacked out bus?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You remember that, huh?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I do.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		That was quite a day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, give me a sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was it like?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, the first time I went down there was essentially to read.
		I was brought into a small room at the facility they had there, and these, well, I guess you'd just call them briefings, because they were just an overview of some of the other satellite projects going on going on that were connected to what I was doing.
		I'm just trying to find a good way to put this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, they had to give you enough of an overview so you'd have some understanding of what you were about to work on.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Right, because just like they do at Los Alamos or any other national lab where you work on high-security systems and subsystems, is they compartmentalize everything.
		And what they do is they have people working on different aspects of one project, so nobody really knows how the whole thing connects together.
		Well, some people do, but for the most part, most of the people working on it only work on a specific module, a specific subsystem, and somebody else worries about what it connects to.
		And that way, your knowledge about what's going on is limited just to the thing you worked on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Makes sense.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		It was the same here.
		And because this was a back engineering project, we weren't teaming together to try and build something.
		We were essentially teaming together to try and find out how something was built.
		You had to have a little knowledge of what was on the other side of the wall.
		You know, what the next guy was doing.
		So they gave you a little briefing about some of the other aspects of what was going on.
		Really not too much in detail, but just enough so you go, well, okay, I know where this plugs into.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did they tell you that you were to be working on propulsion systems that were not ours?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		No, not until later.
		Even though it became pretty obvious, that's what was going on initially.
		I began reading what the people had done before me, and immediately they're talking science fiction about power sources that put out tremendous amounts of energy at propulsion systems with technology that doesn't even exist.
		And you begin to wonder if these guys are just testing you in some way and this is just a joke or what.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it was like reading science fiction?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Initially it was.
		And it wasn't until the next time that I came down that I discovered it wasn't.
		The following time I came down, which was only my second time to work, one of the hangar doors was open.
		Now I believe it was open intentionally.
		And instead of going around the side of the building and the main entrance, we stopped out in front and cut in through the hangar.
		And it was obvious it was in the hangar.
		The second I stepped out of the bus, there was a large disc-shaped craft sitting on its belly on the ground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, not on what would be some sort of touchdown or landing gear.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		No landing gear, no man-made support.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		It was sitting on the concrete, on its belly, on the ground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it was a disc, a typical flying saucer type disc?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How big do you think it was?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, John Andrews and I spent some time working on that, and he brought some people down from the model division so we could scale things up by trying to guess my distance from it and looking at objects that I knew approximately what the size was.
		So they could crunch all the numbers through and figure out within a fairly good estimate how big the craft was.
		That came out to about 52 feet in diameter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty big.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		52 feet, huh?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was big.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		It was big.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when you saw that, there must have been this moment where the jaw drops and you go, oh my gosh.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, a lot at that time, you would kind of think of it.
		But when I left the bus and I saw that, to me it had the opposite effect.
		It said, see, I'm right.
		There are no flying saucers.
		This is just an advanced U.S.-made aircraft, and they've been testing it.
		And people think it's aliens from outer space.
		It made complete sense.
		And in fact, when I walked by the craft, there was a little backwards American flag stuck on right next to the opening in the craft.
		Well, absolutely, that's it.
		There's no if, ands, or buts.
		So I was, by the time I walked in, it made complete sense.
		This was the big new secret fighter that was going to replace the F-15 and who knows what else.
		And, you know, I was going to work on the propulsion system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, actually, it would make more sense that you would think that, especially with a little American flag.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was a nice touch.
unidentified		Yeah, absolutely.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Later did I learn to find out that that was more or less a sticker that says this belongs to us now, as opposed to we made this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you get introduced to who was to be your boss?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is boss the right word?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, kind of.
		It was tough to really figure out who your boss was there.
		They worked on the buddy system.
		And, you know, what moves science forward is free discussion.
		It's people sitting around working on a common problem and discussing things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's just brainstorming, especially for something outrageous like this.
		But that was not permitted.
		What they did is they had a buddy system.
		You had one person who you worked with who you could talk to.
		There was no communication with anybody else, not even if you sat down for lunch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, how interesting is that, Bob?
		Because you were talking about the atomic bomb earlier in Teller.
		And they had the same arguments in the development of the atomic bomb that they weren't allowed to sit around and throw ideas back and forth and that it was holding the whole damn project up.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		It's exactly what was happening here.
		And all that has told me is that since the 40s, the military has not changed the way they do anything.
		And it's probably the reason why this project moved ahead so slowly.
		They were more, obviously, more concerned about security than moving anything forward.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And of course, I guess they did not give anybody any idea where they got these craft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or did they?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, in one of the briefings, they said information gained from the craft, and they really didn't say how, but that the craft came from the Zeta Reticuli star system, which is apparently a binary star system that you can only see from the southern hemisphere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is exactly correct.
		And the one thought to perhaps hold a possibility of harboring life, and you're right, it can only be seen from way down south.
		I believe it cannot even be seen from Puerto Rico, where Acebo is.
		Now, that's really interesting.
		So they actually did say from information gleaned in the investigation of this craft, they thought it was Zeta reticuli.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		That's how it was worded.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so to work you go on what?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, the first person I was introduced to was a guy by the name of Barry, Barry Castillo or Castillo, I don't know how you pronounce that name.
		But I was introduced to him.
		This was the guy I was going to be working with.
		And we had a moderate-sized lab.
		And specifically, we were working on the power source and the propulsion system of the craft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he was your buddy?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		He was my buddy that I was going to work with.
		In the lab, the first day in the lab meeting him, he was a very down-to-earth guy.
		And what was there was a reactor moved from one of the craft and one of the propulsion mechanisms that were on the bench.
		So they had already removed something.
		Now, at that time, I had only seen one craft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The one you described, yeah.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Right.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And as it turned out, there were nine there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nine, right.
		and we'll get to that but did you these this portion of the propulsion system or the main portion of the propulsion system do you remember what your initial impression How much are you unable to talk about or unwilling to talk about or will get in trouble for talking about?
		Is there anything that you hold back, that you have to hold back?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, the only things that I...
		It's not that, oh, there's a new news flash or something.
		I just want to say that's new.
		The only reason there are some things I've held back was so I can recognize somebody from the area.
		You know how all the chats and whatnot that go on on the internet, they're full of just nutcases.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And on both sides of the fence, though, I mean, you have people that will swear up and down, you know, I never lived in Los Alamos.
		I never worked there or who knows what.
		But on the other side of the fence, you also have people that, just because they want to support me, say that, yeah, I was a security guard or something there, and I saw Bob going to work every day.
		Well, you know, both of those people don't help because neither of them are true.
		And, you know, as much as I appreciate the help from people that say stuff like that, it really doesn't help because all it does is confuse matters.
		And, you know, this field of UFO research or whatever they call it these days is so inundated with garbage and just ridiculous stories, you do not need to add even 1% more because it's impossible for anybody to take anything seriously.
		So there were only 22 people working there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		22.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And I have the list of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have a list of the names?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Of every person that worked there.
		Every person that had clearance for that.
		Now, that's the only thing I've kept to myself.
		There were a couple other little things here and there.
		And they talked me into Releasing them in the movie, and that's fine.
		But the number one thing are the names.
		I mean, there's so many times you hear people say, Well, I've got a friend that worked there.
		Really, what was his name?
		You know, and it's never I've never seen a name come through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you and your buddy when you first saw this propulsion stuff, how did it hit you as a physicist?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you, you know, when you looked at it, you said to yourself, I'm looking at what?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, the first thing I saw that was absolutely mind-boggling, and I will never forget it, was the reactor operating.
		Now, this is something very small, probably on a base 12 or 15 inches square with about a basketball size sphere on top.
		Well, semi-sphere.
		It's the basketball setting on the plate.
		This was the reactor for the craft.
		This produced a tremendous amount of energy, and also it was the source of the gravitational propulsion system, where it got its basic gravity wave from that they amplify.
		Now, these are, you know, we know what the effects of gravity are, but we cannot produce gravity or any gravity.
		You know, I've spoken to a lot of people, and I ask people, you know, that you see in NASA training films astronauts floating around.
		And, you know, that's all done in that large plane that they put into a crash dive and people go weightless inside.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Vomit comet.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Right, the vomit comet, exactly.
		You know, the majority of people I've spoken to, even people that seem fairly knowledgeable to me, think that NASA has an anti-gravity device in this room where they just turn it on and people float around.
		Now, if we had something like that, there wouldn't be airplanes anymore.
		Cars would fly.
		I mean, the world would be changed.
		We don't have a machine that can make gravity, because if you do, you can also control time.
		So if we had something like that, the world would be so different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sorry, please.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		We probably wouldn't even be on the radio here.
unidentified		Go ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This device that you just talked about, that you just described, how did you and your buddy endeavor to measure its energy output?
		And in what form?
		How did you take a look at it?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, like I was describing, the first time I saw it operating, all he had to do was put the lid, the semi-sphere, on top of this device, and it became operational.
		And he said, just put your hand on the top of it.
		And when I did, I could not touch it.
		It was the exact sensation of taking two like pole magnets and trying to push them together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		But it was just my hand approaching a metal sphere.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Now, that in itself is shocking because there's nothing that can do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you felt a repelling force, as in like a wall.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you just could push on it.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I could push, starting from probably about a foot away, I could begin to feel something.
		And as I got closer, it got more intense.
		And probably at two to three inches, it was impossible to make contact with it.
		And you could push on the top, your hands would slide to the bottom.
		It was a very intense field.
		And you had a golf ball there.
		And we even, you know, even something moving at high speed could not penetrate the field.
		This was the basic gravity wave that the system produced.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you determine it to be a 360-degree field?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		No, it wasn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It wasn't.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		It wasn't.
		And again, it's something else.
		It's a completely directional gravity field only on the skin of the hemisphere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And it didn't appear on the base at all.
		And so this alone was just absolutely mind-boggling because here's a machine doing the impossible.
		The next thing that I was shown, and it couldn't be a magic trick, it's my hand approaching a metal sphere.
		There's no room for any question there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and what did your body you and your buddy discuss at that point i mean you obviously ask questions or he offered information or he just said And I mean, you could see it in his eyes.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		He took pride in showing off what they had because the next thing he showed me was connecting it to the amplifier.
		And he said, you want to see something really neat now?
		As if that wasn't amazing.
		There is, how am I going to describe this?
		There's a fitting, almost like a pipe that slides down and makes contact with the hemisphere.
		This apparently, from what was described to me, is a tuned pipe.
		Almost like waveguides are tuned for microwaves to pass through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would be resonant.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		So once this pipe is placed upon the hemisphere, the field completely disappears.
		So that's giving you evidence that it's now traveling through the waveguide.
		The waveguide goes to another extremely large tube, probably about two feet in diameter, four feet long, and has plates, I guess is the best way I can describe it on the outside.
		Well, this is actually the emitter, the gravity emitter.
		There's something in between the two, which is the actual amplifier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold it right there, Bob.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		We'll pick it up right there.
		So that was the driver stage, the gravity energy driver stage for what was to come.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		This is Coast.
unidentified		You got me running, going out of my mind.
		You got me thinking that I'm wasting my time.
		Don't bring me down.
		No, no, no, no, no.
		I'll tell you what's wrong before I get off the floor.
		Don't bring me down.
		I'll tell you what's wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here's Bob Lazar.
		By the way, he's not in Las Vegas anymore, I don't think.
		Bob, you're somewhere else now, aren't you?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		The mountains of New Mexico.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back to New Mexico, huh?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cool.
		That's a great place to be, yeah.
		All right.
		What you were describing, the first thing you were describing that you saw, that was obviously a driver.
		Well, you know, in broadcasting, it'd be the driver unit, the generator itself.
		And now you're starting to describe what terrestrials would regard as waveguide or whatever carries this energy to some kind of amplifier, huh?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		However, if I can take one second and just step back to the hydrogen thing, the only reason I'm saying this is because, I guess because of the show, there are a million people hitting the United Nuclear, my United Nuclear website and asking about, asking me to post some kind of instructions about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I told you.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so I'm going to go.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		There's no way I can answer all the emails, so I'll go ahead and generate a web page about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you could either do that or give out your home phone number.
unidentified		Yeah, I'd rather do the web page.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		There'll be some information up there eventually, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		It's going to give me some time to do that.
		Back to the reactor or the propulsion system.
		Anyway, the way it was configured was supplying the basic wave, the basic gravitational wave, to the amplifier and to the emitter.
		In the craft, there are three emitters in a triad pattern.
		And what I found interesting is, you know, after being involved with the project, that kind of made me start looking into UFO stories to see what's true and what's not.
		And there were so many stories, especially Rasha Belgian sightings in the early 90s, I think, or middle 90s, where they saw on the bottom of the craft three bright spots of light.
		And that is exactly how this operated.
		Another interesting thing was, I know I'm jumping ahead of myself here, but the other craft that were there all had the same power and propulsion system in it.
		Which I found.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All three emitters.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, which I found really interesting in itself, which means that whatever a civilization made these, it's almost as if there's, you know, it sounds crazy, but a factory that's producing these and subbing out the propulsion systems for different models of crafts.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it almost sounds like a cart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's how we'd do it.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		But it was the identical system in all crafts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now he demonstrated the amplifier to you?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		That was the reason he connected up the reactor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How was the amplifier demonstrated?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, what further did you see when he brought the amplifier online?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		When he fired that up, he took an ordinary candle and put it probably about six feet in back of the emitter.
		And I was waiting for things to get started, but he really didn't do anything, at least that I saw, and went over and looked at the candle, and the flame was no longer flickering.
		It was essentially frozen the way it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Frozen?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		It just, the candle was there, and the flame was like a two-dimensional picture of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I mean, the flame wasn't moving, but it was still emitting light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which means...
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		It's just another thing that is bizarre that you really can't.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I mean, how in the world would you do that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, wait a minute now.
		We know, don't we?
		Physicists know that gravity bends and affects.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I'm saying, but without using gravity, how could you do that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You couldn't.
		yeah i think that so in in within that field rose Right, to my eyes.
		Solid.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		The candle was removed, and to show me how the emitters can focus gravity, because this is very crucial to how they operate.
		They must be able to focus and diverge the gravitational wave.
		Apparently, he set it for a tight focus and increased the power to it.
		And at the focal point, which was at that time probably about 3.5 to 4 feet from the rear of the emitter, a black dot formed, a black ball.
		Now, not a black hole where it's going to suck in the desks and things there.
		So what he was showing me was the fact that light was being bent.
		Now, there is nothing that we have that can do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would have been at the focal point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, for example, with the satellite dish, a lot of people know about satellite dishes.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		A parabolic dish.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Out at a certain point, which is the focal point, on a good dish, it's about the size of a quarter or even smaller.
		That's what's called the focal point, where all the energy from that satellite dish is radiated right to that little tiny spot, and that's where they put the collector or the LNA or LNB to get the signal.
		And that's a focal point.
		So you're saying just like that, at the focal point, but out in the middle of nothing, in the middle of air, there was a black dot.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And he was demonstrating the fact that the device was bending light away from the area.
		I mean, it was a completely black dot.
		Later to find out, well, again, I don't want to jump ahead of myself.
		But anyway, there were a couple small demonstrations like that that were extremely impressive.
		And, you know, this is what we were supposed to be working on.
		And, you know, our mission was really not just to find out how it worked, but the aim of the project was to see if these systems and subsystems can be duplicated with earthly materials.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bob Wanner was our project.
		When these engines, for lack of a better word, were running, was there any audible noise?
		You were there in the room.
		I mean, other than the test of putting your hand up, was there anything that hit your sensory system that you could describe when these things were running?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		On the test setup in the room, it was completely silent.
		I wasn't even sure if the thing was operating.
		However, during the test flight of the craft, with all three amplifiers operating, there was a definite hiss and corona discharge on the bottom of the craft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A hiss.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		A hiss, like a high-voltage hiss.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		If you've ever been around high-voltage power lines or high-power transmitters, you must have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And you have that familiar high-voltage hiss.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you said a corona discharge.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		A corona discharge, which is kind of not a St. Elmo's fire, but a blue glow that you typically see, again, around high-voltage systems.
		And what's happening in the air is breaking down and emitting photons.
		And it glows.
		It's the same reason why lightning bolts are visible.
		But it was obvious there was high voltage on the skin of the craft, and obviously it was leaking off because that sound is unmistakable.
		As the craft lifted off higher, and approached 20 or 30 feet, the sound disappeared, so it was obviously interacting with the ground.
		So it was just in free flight, there'd be no sound at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, do you know, you say there were three emitters on each craft.
		Do you know offhand how these emitters in flight were manipulated to, for example, leave the ground and then begin propulsion that would take you horizontal or vertical or wherever you wanted to go?
		Do you know how that energy was manipulated?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		The craft operate in two modes.
		It's Omicron and Delta.
		Omicron is using a single amplifier to move the craft, and Delta uses all three amplifiers.
		Whenever a craft is near another gravitational source, such as the planet or whatever, it's only using one amplifier to lift itself off the ground.
		The amplifiers are these, you know, like I said, or I keep using the word amplifier, the emitters are these four foot long, two foot diameter pieces of pipe, essentially, held by a two or two and a half foot, three inch diameter flexible pipe.
		And these hang in the bottom of the craft.
		One of them points down, and it produces a gravitational wave that will lift the craft off the ground.
		The other two are swung almost horizontally.
		So in the bottom of the craft, they're really pointing out in front of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Now, most vehicles and aircraft that we're used to either accelerate hot gas out the back or use a propeller and throw air out the back and the craft moves forward.
		These do the exact opposite.
		And my best analogy for it is the old rubber sheet or the bed.
		If you take a bowling ball and stick it in the middle of your bed, and in front of the bowling ball, about two feet, take your fist and just push it deep into the bed.
		What happens?
		The bowling ball rolls forward.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		So this is exactly what they're doing.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		The craft is standing using one gravity emitter, standing on a gravitational wave, and they're using the other two essentially to make a little divot, a gravity well in front of the craft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And it rolls forward.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And it's why they look so ridiculous when they're in that low-speed mode, because it's an unstable form of flight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was going to be my question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When they do the vertical lift, I wonder how, of course, I don't understand how that energy is distributed, but I wonder how the craft is stable as it goes vertical.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, the gravitational wave is propagating from the emitter, not in a linear fashion, but it's diverging.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		So it's on a pedestal, almost like a pyramid.
unidentified		Oh.
unidentified		So the bottom is so stable.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		In fact, as it goes higher, because the area of the base increases, it becomes more stable.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		It's only when it's very close to the ground that it's wobbly and kind of goofy looking for such an advanced machine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I've got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And look, people should understand that not just your word tonight, but thousands and thousands of people have gone to, you know, as close as they can get to Area 51, and they have seen, there's a million eyewitnesses that have seen craft being tested over the years, those years so that a lot of witnesses to what you're saying right now about how they all
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		John Lear was one of the first people out there, and we brought a big 10-inch Celestron telescope.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And at that time, you could get a hell of a lot closer to Area 51 than you can now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I know.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And we all saw what was going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am curious about this.
		Let me ask.
		You obviously had been treated to plenty of security warnings, probably had to sign a bunch of crap.
		And so you made some kind of decision at some point to begin leaking stuff.
		Describe to me how you went through that metamorphosis.
		How did you get there?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was perfectly content with the way things were going.
		You know, once you're on the inside, it's a different state of mind.
		And, you know, if you're on the outside of something, you know, hey, it's not fair.
		We all should have this information, so on and so forth.
		But, you know, you get kind of a change of attitude.
		Once you become privy to the information, you go, You know, those guys don't deserve to know anyway.
		But that does change after a while.
		And the impetus really had nothing to do with me initially.
		Remember, they were still going through all my security, whatnot, whatever they do to it goes on.
		Yeah, I mean, they do everything in there.
		They're very concerned about your mental state because that, you know, if a person is very depressed or despondent or something like that, it's going to affect their work performance, and especially if they're trusting them with very important secrets, there's going to be a problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		National security.
unidentified		Exactly.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And now, I had given a written order to have my phone monitored and myself monitored.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God, that's something to give.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I know you're a pretty private person, but to give...
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		That was nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		More exciting than being monitored.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Oh, by far.
		And I was absolutely following the rules.
		You know, at the time I was married, and I wasn't saying anything to my wife.
		And initially, this is where the problem began.
		And, you know, I mean, what do you say?
		You leave the house at 11 o'clock at night.
		Where are you going?
		Oh, I'm going to work.
		Really?
		And, you know, night afternoon, and then you come home, you know, six, seven hours later, where were you?
		I was at work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At work.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and, you know, after a while, it begins to sound like you're having an affair.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of course.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's exactly what's exactly what happened.
		And as time went on, my wife began to have an affair.
		And they knew it, and I didn't, because they monitored the phone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is all new stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've never heard any of this.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		So they had all the written transcripts of what was going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And they stopped calling me out to work because they had to make a decision on what to do.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		They were either going to just let it sit and, you know, see what happened, you know, if we broke up or, you know, that ended or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But at any rate, you were suddenly at risk.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And, you know, at that time, they stopped calling me out and I kind of began to get a little concerned.
		And this is when I had the flight schedule and brought a few of my friends out at the time, including my wife, and showed them what I was doing at night.
		And they all saw that.
		And in fact, we got away with it the first night.
		And we got a little greedy and went a couple other times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and we finally got caught and you know they what we want to have a local And what happened?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I think it was four of us.
		And we were standing there, you know, out close to Area 51 in the absolute black desert where you couldn't see your hand in front of your face.
		Now, we had been staying there about half an hour.
		And my friend Gene and I were sitting there joking about, well, maybe we should just take the base by force and, you know, just saying ridiculous things like that.
		Now, little did we know that the security guys had snuck up on us, and they were no more than six feet from our noses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listening to you say things like that.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Right, and they had no idea what was going on.
		So we're sitting there talking, and out of nowhere, a sniper, not a sniper scope, a night vision scope, falls on the ground.
		We see this little green light fall down and roll.
		And it came out of nowhere.
		We had no idea.
		Anyway, the guy had dropped it.
		So, you know, they walked forward and made everyone go back up to the road.
		They call in the sheriff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would these have been the Wackenhut security people?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		As far as I know.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I had taken off into the desert because we had all assumed if I was caught, there was a problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a good assumption.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		because these guys could have just wandered out there and been looking at what's going on, but if they saw somebody from the inside there, I took off into the desert.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And they had counted how many people were there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Toward or away from the area.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Away from the area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Away from the area.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Out into the desert.
		And as far as they tell, there were three or four people there.
		And then when we got back up to the road and the sheriff came out from there, I think his name was La Moreau.
		He was still around there.
		And that's when I re-emerged.
		And he said, wait, we've got a discrepancy.
		There's an extra person here.
		Well, what's his name?
		And he took my license, read it into the base, and, you know, he said, okay, well, everybody can go.
		And the following day, I was called for a debriefing down at Indian Springs Air Force Base, which I had never been to before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They didn't.
		Well, that's very interesting.
		They didn't throw you in jail.
		A lot of people didn't.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		No, they didn't do anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, they spent the night in jail, a lot of them.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		No, the second they heard my name, the second he read the license, they said, let everybody go.
		And it was the following day when I got called in, and Dennis, who was the security supervisor at the time, drove to my house, and we went down there in my car, and that's when it really hit the fan.
		And, you know, kind of to make a long story short, they were pissed, to say the least.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, don't make it too short.
		This is pretty interesting stuff.
		I'd actually like to get some details of that.
		You called it a debriefing.
		Probably it was more like a, let's see how far, how scared we can get this guy.
unidentified		Well, that's exactly what it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then hold on to that thought, and we'll be right back.
		My guest is Bob Lazar.
		They're making a movie about all of this, by the way, which you're definitely going to want to see.
		We'll tell you more about that.
		It's Blue Book Films that bring the whole thing to the silver screen.
		From the high deserts, not far from the areas being talked about right now.
		I'm Mark Bell, and this is Coast to Coast,
unidentified		A.M. There is
art bell ▲ ● ▼		indeed, just over the mountain from me, a place called Indian Springs, and there is an Air Force base there, and that's where they called you, Bob.
		Right.
		Summoned you, said would you get one of the calls?
		You know, it's now noon.
		You'll be up here at some certain time, or what?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		This was a little different.
		This Dennis called me, who was my security supervisor at the time, called me personally and came to my house, which was very unusual.
		And then we both drove down in the same car to Indian Springs, which is an auxiliary Air Force base in this little town, which is the base is essentially shut down.
		But I guess some of it remains operational.
		In any case, that's where they took me.
		And that's when they started the debriefing.
		The first thing they brought up was, of course, tremendous breach in security.
		And they wanted to know everybody that I had told anything to, why I went ahead and did it.
		And I was pretty straightforward with them, but they tried to be as intimidating as possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you threatened, Alright?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Oh, very much so.
		Yeah, and so was my wife's life.
		So I became very concerned about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you actually care to tell us what they said to you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, did they say, you know, you'll end up a lump in the desert like so many others?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		You know, there was a lot of fear present at the time, and I don't remember verbatim, you know, what tagline they used, but it did get my attention.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And this is when they brought up the transcripts of my wife's affair on the phone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they told you.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so I found out from them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At that moment.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, at that moment.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		This was something they had to slap in my face.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gee, whiz, I wonder why they picked that moment to tell you.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, who knows?
		But anyway, that's how the separation between us really came about.
		It was because of that, because of bringing my friends out there to see what was going on.
		And that's really what set everything in motion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		A lot of stories have flown around about what happened, Bob, after that.
		For example, you know, we have the mutual friend of John Lear, who now, by the way, doesn't talk about any of this anymore, doesn't want any publicity.
		You can't blame him.
		He's lost some jobs.
		He's back working.
		He's doing fine, and he doesn't want to talk about this anymore.
		And I don't blame him.
		Do you?
unidentified		No.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I think John's rave now is about the dump up there at Yucca Mountain, about the nuke waste dump.
		That's the one thing I agree with, with John Lear, is, you know, I know everyone in Las Vegas doesn't want it there, but if you're going to put it anywhere in the country, why not put it where you've already exploded 100 atomic bombs?
		It's already a wasteland, you know, at that part of the test site.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're right.
		That's a big controversy.
		Anyway, listen, there was a big controversy about something called Element 115, which was said to be some kind of fuel, an element we don't have now on Earth, that was the fuel or the what?
		What can you do?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess you could call it a fuel.
		It's what made the reactor operate.
		And it's a super heavy element, something that we have theorized can exist.
		You know, people think back about high school or college chemistry.
		You recall that as the elements get heavier, once you pass uranium, they decay.
		And some decay very fast.
		As the elements get very heavy, their half-lives become extremely short, sometimes microseconds.
		So they're just around, they exist just for a blink of an eye.
		Well, it's been theorized and has been some time ago that there are islands of stability.
		Somewhere higher up in the periodic chart, there are places where groups of elements would again become stable.
		And this occurs theoretically was to occur in the 114, 115 area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And again, an island of stability.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Right, where these elements are relatively stable.
		And again, there is supposed to be another island of stability somewhere up in the 200s.
		But these are unattainable things, and no one says that nature has ever produced them except for the moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you know, when you talked about element 115 years ago, what, so many years ago, since then, interestingly, we progressed to the impossible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, since you actually talked about it, they've been discovering elements moving up right on up the chart.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they're getting close.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're getting very close.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		They're getting close.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And the half-lives are getting longer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People back then hoo-hawed at this, but now they're not hoo-hawing so hard anymore because we're getting pretty close.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And I'm sure eventually they'll synthesize it somehow.
		They use, instead of bombarding it with neutrons now, they use this new fusion technique where they fuse the nuclei of two other elements together, which is kind of an odd way to do it.
		But it's got, I think the heavy ion, the lab for heavy ion research in Darmstadt, Germany, has pioneered most of the new heavy elements.
		And, you know, mark my words, they're going to be the guys that synthesize 115.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Avob, there was talk That you spirited some element 115 out of S4.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that true?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Where'd you hear that?
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I got friends too, you know.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Do you want to comment about that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't want to comment on that.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't want to comment about that.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		But that would be a good sledgehammer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, we'll just leave that one alone, I guess.
		Do you think that since the time that you know what we didn't cover?
		We missed it.
		You described the one craft, but at one point while you were there, you saw a total of, what, what did you say, nine craft?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Nine craft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nine craft.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		If I recall, that was the day Barry and I were working in the lab, and Dennis came in and he said, come on out, there's a test flight.
		So there was a flight scheduled, and they were allowing me to see it.
		And we went from the lab out into the first hangar, which was the only one I ever saw open.
		And as I went out there, the craft was already outside the hangar and sitting on the ground.
		I don't know if they rolled it out, it flew out or whatever.
		But as I was walking through the empty hangar, I looked to the right and there are big bay doors in between the hangars.
		And they were all open.
		And I could see all the craft lined up.
		So they had an outright collection of these things.
		Anyway, the craft was outside and there was a guy sitting near the door with what I surmised was an ordinary VHF radio.
		And this is something that to this day really bothers me because it should be, if this is a gravity-propelled craft which is bending and distorting all forms of electromagnetic radiation around it and whatnot, it should be impossible to communicate with the thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The radio should be.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Through a VHF radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which should have been trash, yeah.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		But maybe it wasn't.
		Maybe it just looked that way to me and it was something more advanced.
		But anyway, he was apparently in communication with somebody in the craft, so I know it wasn't being flown remotely.
		And anyway, that was the first time I got to see, and the only time, all the crafts inside the hangar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you ever get to see the inside of any of the craft?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, just the one.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		The one I coined the term, the sport model, because in comparison to the other crafts, it was really sleek and thin and looked like a sporty version.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you describe the inside?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, did it seem as though it was designed for, say, a human or something close to a human?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's hard to say it was designed for something small, because certainly a five and a half or six foot person is hunched over in all but the very center of the craft.
		It's an uncomfortable setup.
		It's extremely barren.
		There are three seats in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Three.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And there is it's all one color.
		There are no aesthetics anywhere.
		And as far as the placement of everything, there are no sharp corners anywhere.
		Imagine taking a seat.
		Well, the amplifiers looked like tables or boxes, just to give you a simple figure idea.
		But it was as if the inside of the craft was all molded with these parts out of wax.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		molded.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, in aircraft, we have rivets, we have various...
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		So there were no sharp corners.
		Everything just kind of blended together like the entire thing was injection molded.
		There was no visible seam or right angle anywhere.
		And everything was just a dull pewter's a little dark, but a dull aluminum color.
		So just being in the place, it looked very unearthly, if I could use that term.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can, sure.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		It was very unusual because in any place you've ever been and anything you've ever looked at, there are varying colors, shapes, and sharp corners.
		And everything was rounded, and everything was monochromatic.
		It was just one color.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about apparent controls for control of the craft?
unidentified		There were none.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really interesting.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		There are no buttons, lights, or navigator position or anything of that sort of the two places I was allowed to look at in the craft.
		Now, obviously, whoever piloted the craft was on the central level.
		The level immediately below it, there's a small access hatch with a collapsible honeycomb accessway.
		And I stuck the upper part of my body in there kind of upside down.
		And I was told to do that so I can see the placement of the gravity emitters and how they're hung and how they move.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And so that was the bottom level.
		Underneath that was just the skin of the craft.
		Now above that, I was not allowed to venture.
		There was a small area above it.
		And on this particular craft, the hump on the top or the dome on the saucer, whatever you want to call it, it's not round.
		It's kind of flat on the top.
		There were these black portals.
		I believe there were four, if I remember correctly.
		And there weren't windows.
		They were, from what I surmise, is they were some sort of planar sensor.
		So the craft could get its orientation in space or wherever it was, where it could, you know, these would detect positions of stars or something like that, so it can get a fix on its orientation and where it is, where it's going, and that sort of thing.
		Now, that's my guess.
		I have no idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you surmise that there probably was an area of some control that you didn't get to see.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, either that or there is a different type of control that has no obvious buttons or knobs or anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know now, even in our fighter jets, they're beginning to get to the point where they put on helmets and they can actually think commands.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we're doing that here on Earth.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's not out of the realm of possibility that the craft would operate that way.
		How we interfaced to it, I would love to know.
		Because if in fact it did work that way, using an alien creature's mind, who in the world came up with the interface?
		And what would you have to go by?
		So there's so much information I would have loved to have known to complete the picture for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you would surmise from what you did see that these craft were probably made for creatures that would be, on average, much smaller than humans.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		They would have to be.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		They would have to be almost close to half our size to comfortably fit in there.
unidentified		Huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you never, ever saw any alien beings.
		Were there...
		between you and your buddy or anybody else that you ever talked to up at s4 were there any discussions of beings i mean it would be a That was the term they coined.
		The kids.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		The kids.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And that's probably because of their size or who knows what.
unidentified		But that's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's pretty interesting, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They clicked in the kids.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And actually, everything looked like it was set up for a child.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		So maybe that's where it came from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bob, how far since you have left, which is a lot of years now, do you think...
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think they got very far.
		You know, I used this analogy probably the last time I was on your show.
		And, you know, if you took an ordinary modern-day motorcycle and just transported it back in time to the 1800s, to the wagon train days, and just left it out front, in the morning everybody woke up and discovered it there with the keys in it.
		Now they can poke around and prod with it and play with it, you know, and eventually they're going to figure out how to start it just out of sheer luck.
		And it's going to start and it's going to run and they'll be proficient at driving it as long as they keep playing with it.
		And when it runs out of gas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		After crashing quite a few times.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but they'll pick it up and they're pretty tough and go on.
		And when it runs out of gas, it'll never work again.
		It'll sit there.
		However, when it comes to duplicating it, if they wanted to make one, they couldn't even make the plastic fender on the thing because that material is just amazing to them.
		Right?
		I mean, you know, polypropylene or something like that.
		They just look at it and go, wow, it's solid, but it bends and it melts.
		You know, they couldn't even make a fender or a turn signal on the thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Much less the engine or the...
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		But this is exactly where we're at.
		We've got a really cool toy, and we've played around with it enough to where we know how it works, and we can make it move around.
		But when the fuel runs out, or something else happens to the craft, that's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then you've just got an inert piece of stuff that you never figured out.
unidentified		Right.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I don't think they're ever going to duplicate, in our lifetimes anyway, what's there.
		You know, they may use it and may get some other information off of it.
		Now, again, I'm going on thoughts that are 12 years old, so they could have made some tremendous strides since I was gone.
		And I was certainly not privy to all the information, but that's the impression that I was left with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold tight, Bob.
		We're at the bottom of the hour here, actually.
		This one's for you.
		I'm Art Bell, and this, of course, is Coast to Coast AM Raging Throughout the Nighttime with Bob Lazar tonight.
		You're hearing what you've never heard before.
unidentified		I can see her lying back in her satin dress In a room where you do what you don't confess Someday on your bed or take care If I find you've been creeping around up at stairs Someday on your bed or take care If I find you've been creeping around up
art bell ▲ ● ▼		at stairs She's been looking like a queen in a sea She's been looking like a queen in a sea All right, once again, here's Bob Lazar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bob, an obvious question, and one coming from Madison, Wisconsin on my computer, is, were there any signs on any of the craft of obvious damage?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Not on the craft that I worked on at all.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, everybody's wanted to know, well, how did we get them?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, that's information I wasn't privy to.
		I would love to know, too.
		Was this, you know, you hear so many stories in UFO lore about an alleged exchange of technology.
		You know, did this actually occur?
		And I've heard people say, well, you know, we know there are crash retrievals.
		We have inside information.
		And you can't tell me that somebody came from 30 light years and nine different advanced craft and they all crashed.
		It just, it's not possible.
		So, you know, I could certainly see the Roswell crash occurring, but I just don't believe that flying saucers come here from a tremendous difference and they just miscalculate the weather conditions and they wind up crashing all over the place.
		It doesn't make any sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear you.
		What about, did you ever learn anything of the material that the craft were made of?
		In other words, could you take a blowtorch and cut?
		Could you damage, dent, or otherwise bend, spindle, or mutilate the material the craft was made of at all?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		Again, that was compartmentalized.
		That's the metallurgy guys that got to play with that.
		The only contact I ever had was going in the craft, and then the first day walking by it, I stuck my hand out and slid it along the craft.
		And it just felt cold, so I assume it's metal.
		But it certainly could have been an advanced ceramic or some other unknown material.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it kind of felt like metal, though.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was.
		Metal has that cold feeling to it.
		The surface didn't feel exceptionally smooth.
		It was aluminum is the only thing that comes to mind, just unfinished aluminum.
		But I doubt it was actually that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think there was any sense of weight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, did you ever have an opportunity to see anybody attempting to lift or move any of these craft, getting an idea of the kind of weight they were trying to move?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't.
		The only thing that caught my eye in relation to weight was above the craft, in the hangar, there was one of those suspension cranes with a hook on it, and it was rated at 10 tons because they had that in big bold lettering on the side.
		So that makes me think, well, if they in fact use that to move the craft, it weighs less than 10 tons.
		That's about as far as I can go on that.
		But I've heard people make comments that, you know, actually they only weigh a few pounds.
		But I don't think that could possibly be true.
		Number one is, you know, at different times moving into the craft, you're sitting on the extreme edge of it, and it would certainly teeter.
		Plus the amount of equipment they had moved into the craft, lights and whatnot, for investigation of it, it makes me think it's something of some pretty sizable weight.
		It's certainly not a flyweight piece of material.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bob, you know, a lot of the interesting news stories I get about world affairs and maybe wars between India and Pakistan, all the rest of it, they come from the United Kingdom, which I think is embarrassing.
		It annoys me that I've got to get news I can't get here from the UK.
		Your movie is going to be made in the United Kingdom.
		Are you going to have any input at all during the production of this movie?
		Are you going to fly you over?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I imagine they would.
		I imagine I would be put in a position as technical consultant at the very least, you know, if they want it to progress in an accurate, truthful fashion.
		And I believe that Bruce did go over that already.
		So I'll at least be in that sort of position.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bob, you have a list of names which you've revealed tonight of the other people that were there.
		You're speaking right now, I'm certain, to many of those names.
		And they're listening to you right now.
		What would you say to them at this point?
		I mean, you're out in the public, and your story has been hanging out there now for a lot of years, and now it's going to be even more public with a movie.
		What do you say to the other people that were up there, given a chance, which you have right now, to say something to them?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, that's changed over the years.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		About the only thing I would like to say to them is contact me in some way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would think maybe by now some of them would have gone through a thought process that would bring them to the point where they'd be ready to be in contact with you and maybe others.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and there's obviously a reason they haven't because it's been 12 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there is, and they haven't, and you're still alive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You wonder about that?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Not really, because the way things progressed, it would have been really detrimental to the program and to them if all of a sudden I disappeared.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		And probably the only reason for that was that John Lear's suggestion and insistence of going to George Knapp at the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, George Knapp is a Las Vegas journalist.
		Investigative journalist, that's right, a big-time one here in Las Vegas.
		He's done a number of UFO specials over the years.
		And you went to John, and John said, go public, go to George Knapp.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, at the time, I think there was a few days there where I hid at John's house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember that.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Tensions got pretty high, so I just looked for a place I could stay other than my house because I had no idea what was going on.
		And the decision was made to go do that.
		And in fact, George broke in more or less.
		It was at the top of the 5 o'clock news in Las Vegas.
		And I went on in silhouette and said what was going on.
		And, you know, certainly if anything would have happened to me from that point on, it would have cast everything in stone and said, hey, you know, this guy said so-and-so.
		And, you know, it looks like it was true.
		If he was just a nutcase, what would you bother killing him for?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they didn't erase you, but they kind of erased part of your employment histories and as much information as they could about your history with them, right?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		Absolutely.
		In fact, Bob Exler was one of the guys that did the research, and I think he was a NASA systems specialist and now, well, I don't know about now, but then, you know, was pretty heavy into UFO investigation.
		And he had some contacts down at the IRS.
		So I let him have all the information.
		My W-2 form from there, you know, with Naval Intelligence and Social Security number, and, you know, he went after everything.
		And from the IRS, he got notified that information regarding my Social Security number is classified, that the numbers, the employer designation numbers on my W-2 form were for I forgot what bizarre government agency, but they were valid.
		And I mean he did bring up a lot of good information and it ran into a lot of block walls that were completely inaccessible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even your history of Los Alamos was somewhat erased, although I'm remembering that you came away or somebody came away with your name on an employment list or a phone list from Los Alamos.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that was the only thing that they couldn't have deleted was the old printed phone list.
		And, you know, that's one of the things.
		On top of that, what proved to be a big plus two is remember, again, the JetCar article.
		And in the front page of that newspaper, in the first few paragraphs, now this is a small town in Los Alamos.
		Everybody knows everybody's business.
		They say Bob Lazar, a physicist working at the Los Alamos Maison Physics Facility.
		This is the Los Alamos newspaper.
		So you can't go back in time and get rid of that paper.
		So I had that.
		I had my name in the internal lab phone book directory.
		So they were stuck with that before.
		They had denied it for years.
		He never lived here.
		He never worked here.
		It's just a big lie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they did reach back and erase as much as they were able.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They just didn't get it all.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, George Knapp is the only guy at the time that I, not that I trusted, but also had the ability to do this.
		And I flew with him back to Los Alamos and went back to where I worked and to the people I worked with and the areas I got him into in the lab.
		And he did a lot of footwork.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, I've had a lot of dealings with George over the years, and I've come to trust him.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's a very trustworthy guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He certainly is.
		All right, very quickly, just a couple questions.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Bob Lazar.
		Anything real quick?
unidentified		Is that me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's you.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was wondering, hi, Mr. Lazar.
unidentified		Do you feel that we had any technology or do we have technology to go to the moon?
unidentified		I don't feel that we did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you mean you think we never really went to the moon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that what you're saying?
unidentified		Oh, yes.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		You know, a lot of people have been saying this to me just in the past couple weeks.
		There's a good friend of mine, John Ferrat, who's kind of a bigwig in Hollywood.
		And, you know, he absolutely, and this is a real knowledgeable guy.
		And apparently there was some show on Fox where they aired all the old Apollo films and analyzed them.
		And I never saw this, but it seems to have convinced him that we never went to the moon.
		And I don't know.
		I've spoken to Edgar Mitchell, who was the six-man on the moon, and it sure seems like he went there.
		But I don't know.
		I really don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, Ed Mitchell made an interesting comment to me.
		I did.
		I've done many interviews with Ed, and one question that seemed to really stump him was, Ed, do you remember what was it like walking around on the moon?
		And he said, you know, it's really strange.
		I just don't remember that many details of the whole thing.
		He said, I obviously remember it, but there are some details that strangely are missing.
		And he did make that comment.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's possible to have faked the whole thing, but we know that the shuttle goes up there because you can look up in the sky and see it go by.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You certainly can.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		So why is it that much more difficult to go to the moon?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		It's not that far away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Bob Lazar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, how are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		North Hollywood, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Bob.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Hi there.
		Still driving to Corvette?
		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's all right.
unidentified		Anyway, are you familiar with the Lockheed Facility in Burbank?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		The Skunk Works?
unidentified		No, not Skunk Works.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Talk about on the premises of the airport.
unidentified		Where the Janet flights took off?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		In Burbank?
unidentified		Yeah, Burbank, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You worked in the 80s.
unidentified		What time do you work at Groomlike Facility?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		What time?
		The time is varied.
		No, sorry, I mean the year.
		That was in 88, 89.
unidentified		Okay, so one, I'll give you a name.
unidentified		There's a guy who worked, I don't know if he worked in your division, but a last name of Hayes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know him?
		All right.
		Well, let's hold it there.
		Do you want to disclose whether the name Hayes is on your list?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		There is a name Hayes on the list.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is a name Hayes on the list.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there is.
		Now, I don't know if there's a billion hazes in the world, but...
		No, there is a Hayes on the list.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		Okay.
		Okay.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there's also a Jones, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know, but what it's still.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		But there is a Haze.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are the odds?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Bob Lazar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Here in Perump, Nevada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Perump?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, and listening to?
unidentified		K-NI.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		K-N-Y-E.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		95.1 in Perump, Nevada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		Mr. Lazar, I'm a big fan of yours.
		And I was wondering how you feel about how the government's disavowed knowledge of you and disrespected your work and everything.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Well, I am, needless to say, not too thrilled about it.
		There isn't much I can do, but I mean, there will never be a common ground between us.
		You know, as far as I'm concerned, all ties are broken and all promises are broken, too.
		And, you know, that's one of the reasons I'm on the air.
		You want to treat me like that?
		Well, guess what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's what you get.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If they came back to you and they said, you know, with all the water that's gone onto the bridge, Bob, we've made a lot of progress.
		We'd like to take you up there and show you how much we've done, how far we've come, impossible as this is, if they came to you with that and said, however, there are going to be a million conditions and more security checks and blah, blah, blah, would you be able to turn that down?
		Would you tell them to go fly a kite?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I would certainly love to do that, but in view of what's gone on, I can't possibly trust them.
		You know, it's a completely remote, isolated area, and once you're there, they could really do anything.
		They say, hey, you're not going home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you wouldn't go home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'd just be not even a lump in the desert, but far below it.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Who knows?
		I mean, maybe that's all fantasy, but I cannot trust them.
		I would absolutely love to get back into the technology.
		I mean, it was the greatest scientific experience I've ever had, you know, working with it.
		and I'd love to see what else they've done and love to lend a hand and become part of the project again, but I can't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'd say the chances of them coming to you like that are...
		Yeah, absolutely zero anyway.
		Just an interesting question.
		Easter the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Bob Lazar.
unidentified		Hello.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Bob, yeah.
unidentified		You fascinate me by saying what part of the universe this thing came from.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Where did it come from?
unidentified		Did you say?
		How can you say that with definiteness, with being definite?
		Assureness in your voice.
		And was your job to reproduce this fuel and this fuel called 115?
		And how far did they ever fly this thing or did they tell you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, first of all, the assuredness in his voice came from the fact that they told him that's where it came from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct, Bob?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		I did not determine this myself.
		And again, this is just a written satellite briefing of the project.
		So whether or not that's true or not, you know, I cannot stand up to that fact.
		But it is possible because the other things that I read in the briefings that I did get hands-on experience with are accurate and true.
		So I don't have any reason to disbelieve it, but because I don't know it for a fact, it just kind of sits in that special place in my mind where it possibly might not be true.
		But again, you know, why throw a lie in there if we're trying to get all this work done and find out what the basis is of this thing?
		The origin of it may have something to do with the operation of it.
		So I don't think they would have taken the opportunity to lie about it there.
		So I just, I kind of believe that was true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, knowing what you know about the drive systems, you said you referred, I think, earlier to some of the Belgian sightings.
		When you consider all the UFO sightings, and I'm sure you've seen a million pictures and moving video now of UFOs and all the rest of it, you think the Belgian sightings were perhaps accurate with what you know about the drive systems.
		Have you seen any other film or stills of UFOs that look like the real McCoy to you?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Because once I started looking into it, now I don't research this stuff anymore, and I get a lot of people asking me UFO questions.
		And actually, believe it or not, it doesn't interest me.
		I liked being involved in the project, but I don't look into UFO stories or research this stuff.
		But when I did, when I said the craft operate in two modes, the Omicron and Delta configuration, when it's transitioning from Omicron to Delta, the way the craft flies through in space is belly first, not flying horizontal like you see in a science fiction movie.
		And as the craft leave the ground in Omicron mode, they perform a roll maneuver where the craft raises, and eventually you see it at a 45-degree angle, and then it becomes straight up and down 180 degrees.
		The amplifiers come up to power, they focus on a point, and the craft flies belly first at the target.
		And you see a lot of UFO photographs here and there with crafts ascending in the sky at a 45-degree angle, but flying up, or sitting at odd angles in the sky.
		And at least from what I can guess from the photographs, if they in fact are genuine, it looks like the craft are transitioning from one moat to another.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you've seen quite a few of those?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		I've probably seen three or four of those.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Three or four?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the majority of UFO photos are by you pretty much dismissed, but every now and then one hits you and you say, hey, hey, hey, look at that.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, if it has something that clicks somewhere, but, you know, these days, boy, you just take a picture into Adobe Photoshop and, you know, you can make anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do know.
		Bob, I can't thank you enough for coming on tonight.
		With regard to your movie, Blue Books.
		Hey, do you have any idea what the title might be?
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		No idea.
		The only thing they talked about are the people that might play me.
		This is James Spader, Kevin Spacey, or Mark Wahlberg.
		So that's about all I know at the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Brother, good luck with the movie, and thank you so much for laying so much new detail on us tonight.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		No problem, Art, and I'd just like to say hi to my buddies Debbie and Nancy out in Chicago and the incredible Douger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, Bob.
bob lazar ▲ ● ▼		Good night, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, there you have it, folks.
		A whole lot of stuff you've never heard before.
		That was Bob Lazar.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Coast.
		See you tomorrow night.

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