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March 20, 2002 - Art Bell

02:48:27

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - The Time Machine - Cellular Memory - Arnold Leibovit - Dr. Paul Pearsall

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 20th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever in the world you may be in all 24 time zones, one way or the other, covered by this radio program.
		I'm Art Bell, and the program is Coast to Coast AM.
		And I would say, next to the question about life after death, which, by the way, we're going to be dealing with next hour, an amazing program coming up for you.
		Remember the memory involved in heart transplants?
		We've got a doctor coming on who will tell us all kinds of stories that we've never heard about that exact sort of thing, memory transfer with a transplant.
		It should be remarkable this hour.
		I would say the second largest agenda question for me in interest has been, as you know, time travel.
		I'm a complete nut on time travel, and so this should be rather interesting.
		Arnold Leibovitz, executive producer of Warner Brothers and DreamWorks The Time Machine, is here tonight.
		He's an award-winning writer and director, as well as producer.
		He wrote, directed, and produced the acclaimed film tribute, the fantasy film, that would be Film Worlds of George Powell, profiling the life of the Academy Award-winning sci-fi and fantasy film pioneer who directed the first screen telling of H.G. Wells' The Time Machine.
		Following this, he had the idea of doing another Time Machine film and has nursed this along since the mid-1980s.
		Oh my goodness.
		That's like having a child a few times.
		He is currently working on producing a remake of Pal's other classic, The Seven Faces of Dr. Lau.
		That'll be interesting too, and is in development on another science fiction film which he plans to direct.
		Hmm, they don't see what it is.
		That must mean it's a secret.
		In addition, he directed and produced the Puppetoon movie featuring such classic animation characters as Gumby, Pokey, and Tubby the Tuba.
		The film premiered as the first American Film Institute Film Festival, has since screened at international film festivals in cities like London, England, in France, in Japan, all over the world, in other words.
		He also served as the associate director-editor of Rascal Dazzle, featuring Hal Roach's Our Gang comedies, of course, which was narrated by Jerry Lewis, scored by Nelson Riddle, written, directed, and produced Penny Lane, a renowned short film on Toy Mechanical Banks.
		And he's just, you know, done a lot.
		But right now, what he's done is in the theaters, just got released.
		Now, as you know, or maybe you don't, in order to see a movie, I've got to go about 120 miles.
		Dare say we're a little remote here.
		120 miles to see a movie.
		Well, I haven't seen this one yet, and I'm dying to see it, absolutely dying to see it.
		So in a moment, we will talk to the executive producer of this film, this incredible film.
		We did have an unsolicited review from a caller last night.
unidentified		I'll remind you of that in a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, coming up is Arnold Liebovit.
		And I must say that there were some promotional materials that the movie company sent me.
		Arnold, they sent me a very nice t-shirt, but they also sent me this incredible watch.
		And it says, it really is an extremely cool watch.
		It says the time machine on the back.
		And it's a very old-fashioned watch, almost one that looks like it came out of another time movie that we'll talk about.
		It's just beautiful.
		So I put a picture of the watch up on my webcam right now.
		You can see it right there, right now.
		And boy, there's a treasure.
		Welcome to the program, Arnold.
unidentified		Pleasure to be here, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So how in the world did you get involved in redoing, I mean, even the decision to redo such a classic movie like H.G. Wells' Time Machine?
unidentified		Well, I guess, you know, everything starts from the beginning, and I guess it was the two magic words, and that was George Powell.
unidentified		And I had done a project early on, back in the late 70s, and I took it to George, and I got to meet my hero, my matinee hero, film hero.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you were pitching the idea?
unidentified		Yeah, I was pitching this idea, which oddly enough was influenced by George himself.
		It was a story about a subterranean land creature, sort of a throwback to the movie monsters of the 50s.
		And I was very early.
		I was actually developing that before Alien came out.
		And I had this project, and one of my friends, Dan O'Bannon, actually, who wrote the Alien movie, and another friend, Jim Danforth, who did the animation for many of the George Powell movies, like Dr. Lau and Seven Faces, The Wonderful World of Brothers, Grimm, and many others, said, well, why don't you take the project to George Powell?
		And I said, is George still alive?
		You know?
		I said, it was, you know, I couldn't believe it.
		And then, so, you know, I made an appointment to see him in Beverly Hills, and he was very kind, and he let me show him the project.
		And, you know, to me, as growing up as a kid, Powell was bigger than life.
		The name George Powell, to me, I always imagined this big, booming-voice guy, you know, George Powell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		You know, but then when he came into the room, he was this sweet, cherub, elfish Hungarian.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Elfish?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean like Lizard of Oz?
unidentified		Like, yeah, I mean, he's like this little, you know, you know, he was just, hello, my name is George Powell, you know, and I was like, I was just blown away.
unidentified		And, of course, sitting on his coffee table was a book, the films of George Powell, and sitting and right looking right on my front of me was the war machine from War of the Worlds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is all to help you relax, you know.
unidentified		Exactly, exactly.
		I was like, oh, my God, I can't believe this.
		And I was so excited.
		And I just loved the guy.
		He was a sweet, warm fellow and so unpretentious, and you just got to know him right away.
		And very much the old school of filmmaking, you know, the old school of film people you read about, like Walt Disney and who he was a good friend of.
		And then, of course, the sad part of it is he passed away a couple years later.
		And I was just stricken terribly by it.
		And I called up Mrs. Powell, and I said, I want to do this film about your husband's life, a tribute.
		I said, he was one of the greatest influences in my life and probably in the film industry to people like Steven Spielberg and George Lucas and Gene Roddenberry and James Cameron and just about everybody.
		George Powell was the guru.
		And so she said, oh, fine, sure, sure.
		She heard that from a lot of people.
		Well, about two years later, I showed up on her doorstep with my camera crew and I said, making this film.
		And she couldn't believe it.
		And that's how it started.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		So the long and the short of it is I did this Fantasy Film Worlds, which was really a door opener for me.
		I had a big premiere at the Motion Picture Academy.
		Everyone turned out, got a lot of attention.
		And of course, the film involves everyone.
		When you watch it, you realize, my God, the influence that this man had in the movie industry, in this field, was extraordinary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, and the influence that movies have on America.
unidentified		Right, exactly.
		And one fellow, the publisher of Starlog magazine, Kari O'Quinn, wrote a beautiful, touching article after George Powell passed away calling his effect on films, filmmakers,
		and audiences a ripple effect, where he made the analogy of how Powell influenced not just filmmakers, but writers, Ray Bradbury, Robert Bach, Robert Heinlein, Harlan Ellison, talked about how Powell influenced the industry, the science of the industry, like astronauts, Gene Roddenberry, and all of these different effects, just the ripple effect.
		So he really was the father of a science fiction movie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But to remake this, to remake something as classic as this, some decision made.
		I should tell you, I had an unsolicited call last night during an open line session where somebody said, I just got back from seeing the time machine.
		So I asked him, what do you think?
		He said, oh, totally excellent.
		I said, as you know, I haven't seen it yet.
		Did it sort of go true to form of the original movie?
		He said, yes, but with much better special effects.
		And so he just really gave it a total thumbs up last night.
unidentified		Well, that's wonderful.
		It was a tough decision, Art.
		I actually didn't want to remake the movie.
		In the very beginning, we had talked about, I had talked to Mrs. Powell about this at length.
		I was very, very aware of the love that the people have for the original movie.
		And it really is a classic.
		Certainly, there's elements today that are flawed when you look at it, but it had a charm and an innocence in that day, which was quite extraordinary.
		And Mrs. Powell and I basically said, you know, maybe we shouldn't redo it.
		She was concerned about revenue that she might lose because she was in her 80s at that time.
		Now she's in her 90s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not a time to lose her money.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		And she was a little concerned, and I came up with the idea of maybe doing a sequel, which I played around with for quite a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		And the thing with the sequel was I wanted to continue the adventures of the time traveler.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How would you, oh, that's a wonderful question.
		How would you have continued the adventure?
		You certainly know that answer.
		How would you have continued it?
unidentified		Well, certainly the three books would have been answered, and I think that was done fairly, very beautifully in the new movie, which we can talk about as we progress.
		But what I want to do and still want to do is explore the Morlock dynasty.
		The Eloy and the Morlock need further explanation, and the travails and travels of the time traveler need further exploration.
		It's an infinite idea because if you really think about it, he only landed one place on the planet, and you've got a whole planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're absolutely right.
		I mean, it could go literally on and on.
		It could be Star Wars, really.
unidentified		Yeah, exactly.
		It could be infinite possibilities.
		I have some notions of what I think it could be.
		I don't want to give it all away, but I think there's a definite level of possibilities for the evolution of our planet 8,000 centuries from now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If we make it.
unidentified		If we make it.
		Well, look, that's what the time machine's about.
		I mean, that's what the story is about.
		The story says something happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you know, I did get to see an HBO production of, you know, the making of the time machine.
		I did see that, and some of the special effects are awesome.
		But, you know, the one thing that I thought really was cool, and since they said it there, we can say it here, they used the dress shop.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, in the original movie, of course, the dress shop was key.
		You saw the fashions changing as time went by, and people with clothes would rip on and off.
		And as time went by, it was so neat.
		And you have used that in the new film, right?
unidentified		That's right.
		And that was something, John Logan, who wrote the script, who was really a brilliant screenwriter.
		He wrote Gladiator.
		He did RKO 281, the HBO film.
		He's actually going to be writing Steven Spielberg's autobiography film of Abraham Lincoln, which is going to be upcoming down the road.
		But that was something a lot of people talked to him about.
		They said, now you're going to write it, but don't forget that scene with the dresses.
		So that was the interesting thing about Powell.
		You remember he was a European filmmaker.
		He came to America, and his sensibilities were very much of that European place.
		Everything was very charming and filled with the types of things that we might not normally think of.
		He picked up on because he was not an American.
		He grew up there, and then when he came here, he learned to appreciate various things.
		He didn't even speak English when he came here.
		But getting back to the film, I think that the decision to make it came about through various circuitous means.
		I was kind of trying to get it set up here and there and everywhere.
		And then one day Turner was merged with Warner Brothers, and I was still folded into it.
		Mrs. Powell let me kind of run with the property.
		And Ron Howard became interested in directing the movie.
		And for one reason or another, it didn't work out.
		You know, the way the business is, you know, things don't always happen the way you expect them to do.
		You get a right-hand turn, a left-hand turn.
		But that elevated things quite a bit.
		And then maybe, oh, I don't know, it may have been another few months later, I got a call from Warner Brothers, and they said Steven Spielberg wants to direct it.
		And John Logan was going to write.
		And I think I fell off my chair.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At that point, you go, wow.
unidentified		You know, now, you know, I started out like with this idea, and then 15, 20 years later, you know, suddenly it's a grand production.
		And that, to me, I think, is the triumph for me.
		And I think it's also a word of encouragement to some of your listeners in a way that never to give real, never to give up.
		Because if you believe in something and you think it's something that will have value, because I had a lot of disappointments, a lot of disappointments along the way.
		The film business is not an easy business.
		No.
		And then it happened, and it happened in a way which was so wonderful.
		And Stephen is such a fan of the original, and he tried so much to get that feeling of the Victorian and the machine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, almost only Steven Spielberg could do justice.
		It's sort of an honor to remake such a film.
		And, you know, he's the one person who can sit in that seat.
unidentified		He really is.
		I mean, he's the only one that could really do it this way.
		When you see the picture, and hopefully you will, the machine itself is a work of art.
		I mean, that machine is as intricate and designed like a scientific instrument.
		It is amazing.
		And the budget alone for that machine is more than the whole budget for George Powell's movie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much?
unidentified		The machine?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The machine.
unidentified		Well, I can't give you the exact number, but real expensive.
		But I would say the budget of George Powell's movie was around $860,000.
		So, I mean, this machine had, I mean, this machine, you really feel like you could travel in time with this thing.
		I mean, there's a picture of my, I think there's a picture on your website that was put up of me in the machines, the early one in 1960, and then the current one.
		But there are a lot of interesting pictures of it, and it's a great design.
		It was Oliver Scholl, the production designer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see you in it right now.
		You're right.
		Everybody go to my website under a program tonight's guest info.
		The first link is Arnold sitting in the time machine.
		It is an excellent-looking time machine, and I must tell you that from those people that I've had on that talk about how a time machine might operate, many of the descriptions include a large spinning wheel and, of course, electromagnetics.
		But the spinning part is integral to a lot of even modern ideas of what a time machine might be.
		I don't know if you knew that.
unidentified		No, and I think a lot of that is attributed to Oliver, who designed it, and he was the fellow that did Independence Day.
		He was the production designer.
		and also the director simon wells who is the great-grandson of h_g_ wells who directed actually ended up directing the film and they toyed with a lot of
		They spent a lot of time trying to be accurate in ways that George Powell really wasn't in terms of the mechanics of the machine, the time sphere that surrounds the machine when it travels.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, these things are really important to science fiction nuts, and I'm one of them.
		So believe me, that's important.
		Whoever said it was dead right.
unidentified		Well, that's really great.
		I mean, it's gratifying to hear that.
		And I think, I mean, a lot of attention was placed on these very, very specific things.
		I think at the end of the day, I think the film turns out very well.
		I think what I call it is I call it an action-adventure film with heart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who gets the time machine?
unidentified		You mean at the end of the day?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, at the end of the day.
		For real, yes.
		Who gets it?
unidentified		Well, that is not an answered question.
unidentified		I mean, my hope is that that time machine is going to end up being used for a sequel or for a television series or for some ongoing adventure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to ask you about TV.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You wouldn't rule out sort of a Star Trek version on TV, huh?
unidentified		Not at all.
unidentified		I think, even, in fact, if a sequel is not possible for any reason, I think a series is the next most obvious place to go because look at what you can do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would love that.
		Hold on.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		I'm Art Bell.
		The subject is a time machine.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 20, 2002.
		Time, time, time to see what's become of me.
		While I look around, all my possibilities, I'm with so heart disease.
		The ground, leaves are brown, and the sky is a hazy shade of wind.
		The ground, leaves are brown, and the sky is a hazy shade of wind.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 20th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		my guess is arnold executive producer of water brothers and dream works the time machine and will be right back Arnold, I guess you know exactly how that man feels.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, I really, you know Steven Spielberg then, first name basis, good friends, I take it.
unidentified		Well, I know him.
unidentified		We're not, you know, we don't go to the ballpark together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You occasionally speak on the phone together.
		Occasionally.
		Next time you happen to speak to Stephen, it has been more or less lifelong dream of mine to interview Stephen, so drop my name.
unidentified		He probably already knows.
unidentified		He may even be listening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He may even be listening.
		Stephen, call me.
		Anyway, listen, back to the movie itself.
		I'm so excited about it.
		When you were doing this film, what do you feel like was the most fun?
unidentified		Talking to you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm sad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, while you were doing the film.
unidentified		No, while I was doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Oh, gosh.
		I don't know.
		I just got a thrill out of seeing all the pieces put together.
		I mean, you know, you go from paper and you see things on paper and you dream and you dream and you dream.
		And then one day you're looking at a full-size time machine.
		I mean, when they brought me into the production design office and they sat me down in a chair and they showed me an animatic of the time machine that they had done, because I didn't know what it looked like at that point.
		This was like an early stage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		And I'm sitting in the chair.
		In fact, I didn't know I wasn't sitting in the chair.
		I was standing looking at it.
		And I dropped to the chair.
		I said, oh my God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure.
unidentified		You know, because it's magnificent.
unidentified		And I hope, as they said, we do more of it so you can see more of the machine, really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sorry, I'm curiosity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who in God's name do you get to build a machine like that?
unidentified		Well, you have designers, model makers, things of that sort.
		And there were people working on the production that did the designs and the machines and so forth.
		I think Matt Sweeney built it at his shop.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was really serious machine-ing that went into it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's amazing.
unidentified		Yeah, I think Matt Sweeney did the machining of it and made it.
		And, I mean, as I said, it's a finely tuned scientific instrument.
		What it looks like is almost like a telescope.
		If you buy a telescope or a sextant, it has all the little markings and you look at it, everything is real all over it, and you have the design and so forth.
		In fact, they went through a lot of trouble to research the kinds of accurate scientific equipment that was available during the turn of the century.
		And they found an abacus that's an actual computer that existed back at the turn of the century.
		It's just the most amazing thing.
		And it's right up there on the machine.
		They incorporated this old real science into that 1890s machine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's neat.
		Folks, you've got to see the photograph again of Arnold sitting in the machine.
		It's a really good one.
		The second one is the one you want to click on, really.
		It's really excellent.
		Listen, through all this, and I have no idea what your views of time travel were prior to doing the movie, but I wonder if the movie provoked deep thought on the subject for you.
unidentified		I have a lot of thoughts.
		And first I want to say I want to mention that I am a big science fiction fan, first of all.
		I go back to Day the Earth Stood Still and Forbidden Planet and all these films.
		And I have the honor of knowing Robert Wise, who directed Day the Earth Stood Still, and a lot of these people.
		And in fact, I did a website I'm mentioning now called Sci-Fi Station, which basically came about because of my love of the subject.
		It's sort of an avocation for me.
		I make films, but I wanted to do this site that it has A lot of merchandise.
		We sell Robbie the Robots and movies that are hard to find and posters and model kits.
		But it's really the love of the subject that it all comes from.
		And I do that and I feature that.
		And the subject of time travel itself, there's a wonderful line in the script that I like to quote when I kind of talk about this.
		And one of the main characters, the overlord in the film, really the head Morlock fellow, he says, we all have our time machines, don't we?
		The ones that take us back are memories, and the ones that take us forward are dreams.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that is very good, yes.
unidentified		And that's the kind of eloquence of the writing.
		And I think there's a message to be said for the film, and that is to say the whole subject of time travel, I guess you could come away, and one moviegoer left the theater, and he came up to me after the film, because I was out doing some publicity, and he said, I got the message of the movie.
		And he said, live for the present.
		And I know that might sound disappointing, but when you think of the paradoxes of time travel, it could be insanely dangerous, first of all.
		It could be.
		But as science believes time travel to be real, and if you pick up a copy of Popular Science this month, there's a whole article.
		It's on the front page of Popular Science.
		It says, time travel, science says it isn't fiction, but when.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly correct.
		I interviewed some of the best minds in the world, theoretical physicists, on this question, and they suggested it will indeed be possible.
		It will be possible.
unidentified		And that's where the paradox or the dilemma comes in, the ethical question of time travel, because people are writing letters.
		I'm getting emails from people.
		There's things all over the Internet.
		Message boards are filled with this.
		And the question is, where would you go if you could time travel?
		Where would you go?
		And everyone has an answer for that.
		Sure, you do.
		I do.
		Some people want to see loved ones or meet famous people or maybe do something where they intercede in something.
		For instance, very recently you see a lot of people saying, well, we go back to 9-11 and we try to stop it from happening.
		And there's a lot of those.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you be interested in what the theoretical physicists say would happen if you did that?
unidentified		Well, that's the conundrum because can you imagine if you had 10 or 100 or 1,000 people popping around in time?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, you couldn't very well have that, I suppose, without utter chaos.
		But what they suggest, Arnold, is that if somebody went back and actually, for example, prevented 9-11, in one universe, 9-11 would still happen.
		In another universe that had suddenly been created, and that's the way a universe is created, it is suggested by these physicists that just suddenly another universe in which 9-11 doesn't happen is created, and then everything goes forward from there.
		So the two don't mix and the paradox doesn't occur.
		That's the latest theory.
unidentified		Well, that's a pretty neat theory.
		I mean, I'm happy with that.
		I'm okay with that because, you know, I'm just a filmmaker.
		And that notion makes perfect sense to me because then you could have a thousand different stories.
		Well, you really do think like a filmmaker.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A thousand different stories.
		And you're right.
		You're absolutely correct.
		You could have a new universe every week.
unidentified		Right, exactly.
		It fits in perfectly, you know.
		Now, if I could just get those people to archive their stories and send them to me, you know, maybe they would be fodder for some interesting film project.
		There is a movie that I'm working on, which is the next project that I'm doing.
		It's a sci-fi.
		You kind of hinted at it.
		It's a sci-fi romance project that I'm doing.
		I'm going to direct it.
		And it has a time travel component to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does it?
unidentified		Yeah?
unidentified		So it's not a subject that I'm just lightly taking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, spill as many beans, or have you now spilled as many beans as you're able to about it?
unidentified		Well, I'll tell you this.
unidentified		This is as much as I can say, because, you know, we're only talking to millions of people here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whisper it in my ear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just whisper it in my ear.
unidentified		Well, without telling you the whole story, it has to do with an alien, one of, I know, your favorite subjects and mine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And he's visiting us from a distant star, and he comes back into time.
unidentified		So that's as much as I can tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, there is this, isn't there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you start making something like this, you really get into very serious, dark secrecy as an absolute must, don't you?
unidentified		Well, there's a thing called intellectual property.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And you have to be careful because everyone has their own ideas.
		And I have to, people send these scripts all the time and ideas.
		I have, you know, it's, as I said, it's sort of a Gordian nut.
		You know, you're, you know, it's half of this and half of the other.
		But you want to talk to everybody and you want to be open, but then you have to be very careful because you get a lot of material that's similar from a lot of different people.
		And what do you do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's another thing I want to ask about.
		I heard that involved was H.G. Wells' prodigy, I mean a connection, a family connection, the current Wells descendant.
		Now, they suggested this occurred very early in the process, that it was not a cooked-up deal.
		It just happened, and one day somebody realized, oh, look who we've got.
		Did it really happen that way?
unidentified		It's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is true?
unidentified		It is true.
		I mean, we were looking for a director.
		We didn't have a director at that time.
		And we.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's hard to believe in that much coincidence, you know.
unidentified		Well, it's just the way things go.
		I mean, Simon had worked for DreamWorks in the animation area.
		He was one of the co-directors of Prince of Egypt, and he was involved in that.
		And we didn't know, I didn't know, that he was even related to, I mean, he mentioned it, and then it kind of blew everybody away going, what?
		What?
		What?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		So, you know, you talk about H.G. Wells.
		I'm glad you mentioned Wells himself because, you know, Wells, they say Wells invented tomorrow.
		I mean, you think about what Wells did.
		I mean, he wrote a book in 1895 called The Time Machine talking about time travel when there weren't even working toilets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He has a good point.
unidentified		And he's talking about time travel.
		It's like, please, it's so far, even by today's standards, people can't accept it.
		Can you imagine what they were thinking 100 years ago?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When they released that film originally, was it an immediate smash hit?
unidentified		The original?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the original.
		It's obviously a classic now.
		It wasn't a big smash.
unidentified		It was not a smash.
		In fact, it didn't have a big premiere.
		Alan Young is a friend of mine who was Philby in the original, who has a cameo in the new film, told me that he didn't even know the film opened.
		He had to go to some theater in the valley, San Fernando Valley.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My mind.
unidentified		To find it and see it.
		And he didn't even know.
		No, at that time, you have to remember, when Powell was making his movies, they were sort of stepchildren to Westerns and musicals and the kinds of things that Hollywood was doing.
		Science fiction movies were considered for kids.
		They were B-films.
		So when Time Machine came out, it was a kids' film.
		It was a matinee movie.
		It wasn't given any serious attention.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's amazing.
unidentified		I mean, that's just the way it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you're right.
		I sort of remembered the times.
		So, yes.
unidentified		When you were a kid, did you go see it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		did you see it in the theater as a kid national i remember seeing it so many times arnold so many times that i don't even I really honestly can't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've seen it probably 10, 12 times.
unidentified		Well, see, for me, it was quite indelible.
		I mean, I was nine years old.
		I remember going to a theater.
		See, I've dated myself.
		But I saw the film, and it blew me away.
		I said, this is amazing.
		And I think it had that effect on mostly everyone.
		It had a real amazing effect.
		And I think it's part of the Powell legacy, really, of all the things that he did.
		And now I want to do this remake of Seven Faces of Dr. Lowe, which is another classic of his, a film about a Chinaman who comes into a small town and changes the lives of all these people.
		And it has fantasy and humor, but it also teaches important lessons about life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it sounds like a DreamWorks project.
unidentified		Well, it very well might be.
		But, you know, it certainly has everything.
		It has magic and effects.
		And he teaches the lessons using mythological creatures and all sorts of wonderful things.
		And that movie really needs and deserves an updating.
		And I'm hoping that I can get that one moving along as well.
		So we all, you know, we just keep moving along.
		We keep coming up with things.
		And I think for me, people say, what are you doing?
		Are you going to make other films of this and that?
		And my answer is always, and I kind of say what George Powell used to say, which is he always looked for something different.
		And Powell would say, and I say now too, that when people say it's impossible, I'm already interested.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
		You've got to have, that's just vision, you know, a lot of vision, and you've got to have that in your business.
		To imagine this project, though, has been going since the 80s.
		Since the 80s.
		Good Lord.
		I mean, you could have had four or five children by now through that time, right?
unidentified		I could be, look, I tell people, I wish I had a time machine.
		I could have gone back or forward, and I wouldn't have had to go through all that time and waiting.
		But that's sometimes, you know, sometimes it's an odyssey.
		It's the way things go.
		is that there's a reason for everything.
		Things are, well, I don't know if you're a fatalist or...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I think in this case, it was getting the right people together at the right time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One of the right people, of course, was Stephen.
unidentified		Well, certainly.
		There's no question.
		And maybe the project would never have happened without him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, the film's, what, out a week now?
unidentified		It's out two weeks.
		Two weeks.
		We're still doing pretty good.
		And hopefully we'll stick in there.
		And people will continue to come to see it.
		I think they'll enjoy it.
		I get great comments from people.
		It's exciting.
		It's a visual wonder, really, to see the special effects.
		And also the star, I think another thing is Guy Pierce.
		Guy Pierce is really a thinking man's hero.
		He's different than Rod Taylor was, who is a real manly man, man's hero.
		And I think the thing about Guy is, and Guy is a wonderful actor.
		He can do anything.
		He's done a lot of great pictures.
		But the whole intent of it is he's sort of a thinking man's hero.
		And I think he's very appropriate for this character.
		You could have easily gone with, say, a big star like Amel Gibson or something like that, or Schwarzenegger.
		But here you have a very astute thinking approach to the movie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you think he'd be available either for the next installment of the movie or for television series if something like that occurred?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think he'd be interested?
unidentified		He might be, but you never know until you...
		Yeah, he might be.
		There might even be some contractual things, but I'm not aware of those specifically, but he might very well be.
		I think that a lot of the performers in the picture, they're not big stars, and I think that was smart.
		One of the things, again, going back to Powell, because this is something I always did, advised on the picture, I always advised them on all these things about Powell and the elements and all that input was given.
		And one of the things that he did was he usually made his pictures without big names.
		He made them into big names.
		But he didn't use big names because when you do a film about a future, you don't want the audience to be thinking, oh, that's Mel Gibson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of the present.
unidentified		Right.
		Sure.
		You want them to feel that as they're discovering the future, you're discovering it with them.
		You're with that character, and you don't want to be thinking about his persona, quote unquote.
		So I think it was very astute to use really good people, really talented people, and in case of Samantha Mumba, who plays the Eloy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, is she beautiful.
unidentified		She's gorgeous.
unidentified		She's a wonderful lady.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, may I ask, what is her ethnic background?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We were trying to figure it out.
unidentified		Irish.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She's Irish?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Irish.
unidentified		Irish?
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, believe me, I wouldn't have guessed that one.
unidentified		She speaks with a thick, she has a beautiful, beautiful accent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She does.
unidentified		Yeah?
		And she's English.
		She's sort of English-Irish, but she's, you know, just beautiful.
		And she's very charming.
		She has a real innocence about her that fits the part perfectly.
		Her brother, the little boy Omero, plays her brother, and I think he does a superb job.
		We also have Jeremy Irons in it, who is so sublime and so brilliant, really.
		And a number of other actors.
		Sienna Gillory, for instance, who is his, who is Emma, who is beautiful, beautiful lady.
		She's English also.
		And Philip Osco played a part in it.
		And we had Felita Law, who played Mrs. Watch It, who was excellent.
		So the casting, it was very classy.
		My feeling is the movie is very classy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The whole thing is classy.
		And sorry, you, Arnold.
		We're out of time.
unidentified		Well, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An hour goes that quickly because we're going to be able to see it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, wow.
unidentified		It's a time travel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's definitely time travel, you know, of the linear sort.
		Anyway, what a pleasure.
		And everybody go see the time machine.
		But I don't have to tell my audience to do that.
		They will anyway.
		Thank you, Arnold.
unidentified		Thank you.
unidentified		Hope to talk to you again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Arnold Liebovic, executive producer of Warner Brothers and DreamWorks, The Time Machine.
		Coming up, Dr. Paul Pursal will talk about organs that have been transplanted and memories that appear to be going with them.
		It's a remarkable topic.
		So don't touch that, Doc.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 20, 2002.
		Coast to Coast AM from March
		Coast to Coast AM from March 20, 2002.
		20, 2002.
		Coast to Coast AM from March 20, 2002.
		Coast to Coast AM from March 21, 2002.
		Coast to Coast to Coast AM from March 21, 2002.
		Coast to Coast to Coast AM from March 21, 2002.
		Coast to Coast AM from March 21, 2002.
		Coast to Coast to Coast AM from March 21, 2002.
		Coast to Coast AM from March 21, 2002.
		in time.
		Tonight's program originally aired March 20th 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, Phaedra was a very ill-fated Greek goddess, so you might want to know that fact.
		Coming up in a moment, we've talked about it a few times on this program, and we've heard a couple of stories about people who have had organ transplants and then suddenly somehow have begun to acquire the traits, even the memories of the donor.
		They're incredible stories.
		And that's where we're going tonight.
		Dr. Paul Pierzall is a licensed clinical neuro, I'm going to have to get through the psychoneuroimmunologist, Clinical professor at the University of Hawaii, member of the board of the State of Hawaii Consortium for Integrative Health Care, and senior research advisor of the Human Energy Systems Lab at Arizona University.
		He is the, or rather, on the clinical advisory board of the Cultural Healing Program at a Hill Center that I'd rather not try and pronounce on the island of Oahu.
		He is president and CEO of Huala Hu, which I just slaughtered, a non-profit research institute studying the application of ancient Hawaiian principles to modern living, working, loving, and health.
		He is a frequent consultant to national and international media, including CNN, Dateline 2020, and the BBC.
		Or do I depend on the BBC for a lot of stuff I can't get here?
		Dr. Pierzov graduated as Distinguished Scholar from the University of Michigan, did postgraduate training at the Harvard and Albert Einstein Schools of Medicine.
		Wow.
		Designed and served as chief of the award-winning psychiatric clinic at Sinai Hospital, was director of behavioral medicine at Beaumont Hospital, professor of clinical psychiatry and neurosciences at the Wayne State University School of Medicine, has authored over 300 professional journal articles and 14 best-selling books, all of which have been translated into several languages.
		His current book, just released, is titled Miracle in Maui, a description of his own miracle cure from stage 4 cancer.
		That's almost goodbye time, folks.
		And the combination, the modern science and ancient Hawaiian principles underlying miracles.
		in a moment dr paul your soul stay right there Okay, Dr. Pearsall, welcome to the program.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Aloha, thanks for having me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's just great to have you.
		You're in Hawaii someplace or another.
		Where are you?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I live on the island of Oahu in Honolulu.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Main Island.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		On the Main Island, yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You are going to talk about something that is just absolutely, it just rivets me.
		Because there just appears to be so much that we don't understand about ourselves.
		And, you know, to the average person, doctor, it seems utterly impossible that any sort of memory or any sort of anything could transfer in one of our lower organs, our heart, our liver, our lungs, something like that.
		It's just, you know, it's nice to have, but it's not the brain.
		Or at least we didn't think that it was the brain or that there was any, could possibly be.
		I mean, it's science fiction almost to imagine there could be transference of any kind of memory with the transference of just an organ.
		But do you believe that to be true?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know you have so many really excellent scientists on your show, and I don't think it really matters what I believe.
		I think what really matters is what does the data show us?
		And the data shows us if we really look at this, and you're quite right, Art, that so many people are so threatened by this, but I asked them to look at the journals.
		And why are they so surprised when we use a word like cellular memory?
		I know I was at a scientific meeting the other day, and somebody said, even that phrase sounds stupid to me.
		And I said, well, let's just stop a moment here, first of all.
		If you go back to high school and think of that one single cell paramecia, it has no brain at all, yet it remembers how to swim, finds food, it mates, it recognizes and invades predators.
		It's got a memory of what we call in science a memory of function.
		That is, it always remembers what to do.
		So if one cell will do it, think of 75 trillion cells.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that genetic?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, even one cell has a genetic structure, doesn't it?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Well, it does.
		And these simple memories can be passed on.
		It shouldn't surprise us because we all know about RNA, ribonucleic acid, and DNA.
		And you know what was strange?
		In 1966, think how long ago this was, in the journal Nature, which is a reputable journal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, indeed, sure.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		It's not one of these far-out things.
		And it's one of the problems in me doing the research in this area is that wherever there's gold, there's counterfeiters.
		And some of these weird stories and weird things start to dominate when the real science is strange enough and hard enough to accept.
		Because in 1966 at UCLA, scientists were able to transfer memories from one organism to another by transferring the RNA.
		What they did is typical kind of boring science, I guess, but they took 400 little tiny worms, divided them into two groups.
		One they conditioned to respond to light and then moved toward food.
		The other ones were left just stupid.
		And they sacrificed the worms that they had trained and then transferred cells from those simple worms.
		Now look how simple level we're talking about, to the stupid worms.
		And the stupid worms automatically reacted to the light and pursued the food.
		This data has accumulated and accumulated, and this evening we'll talk about certainly some of the dramatic stories.
		And some have happened even within hours since your producers asked me to come on the show.
		Really?
		And I wrote these down because I said I've got to share these first with you guys because these stories come constantly, even when you apply our good scientific standard to dismiss these and be skeptical.
		But I hope tonight, as your listeners tune into this topic, they will realize that skepticism is everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, how many surgeons who do transplant work do you think would laugh and walk away at the concept versus those who would, because of their own experience, let's put it that way, not laugh and not walk away?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		That's the interesting thing, Art.
		When I published the book called The Heart's Cold with the first data, and then two or three journal articles after that, I thought, boy, am I going to catch flack.
		Do you know the only group from whom I have not caught flack has been the heart transplant surgeons?
		Really?
		Take just one very well-known transplant surgeon, Nemitz Oz at Columbia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I remember one day out here just paddling in my canoe outside the ocean, and my wife calling me and say, You better get in here.
		Dr. Oz is on the phone.
		And I thought, oh boy, he's read this stuff.
		I'm going to catch it.
		Here we go.
		And I ran in, and he said, I just got to tell you, I just finished your book.
		It's brilliant.
		You're right.
		It's time this stuff came out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		About 10 years ago, there was a doctor, I don't remember his name, who interviewed several, several heart transplant surgeons.
		The only one who remained skeptical, even very negatively so, was Dr. DeBakey, who said, quote, it's simply a pump.
		But you know what surprised me about that art?
		What?
		It's not just a pump.
		That's the most powerful mechanical pump.
		It is certainly a pump, too.
		But just think, if you describe the heart, I'm going to do this from memory, so I hope I don't make mistakes if doctors here.
		But it can pump blood six feet in the air.
		Think of the power.
		It beats at least 100,000 times a day.
		It's got more than 3 billion of pulsations in an average lifetime.
		Two gallons of blood per minute through the whole body through a vessel system that could be wrapped around the planet two and one-half times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy moly.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		It energizes and sets the rhythm for all of our 75 trillion cells.
		Its electromagnetic field is 5,000 times greater than the strength of the field produced by the brain.
		We can measure heart energy with magnometers 10 feet away from the body.
		I know you've had an excellent scientist on, and he's done some articles with me, Gary Schwartz.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, of course.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		A brilliant, careful scientist, also researching areas that are sometimes approached with great skepticism and cynicism.
		And his work has shown that the electrical information patterns generated by the heart are detectable in our own brainwaves and, listen to this, other people's brainwaves.
		Now, Gary told me one time that they were doing a study and they had all these little electrodes on somebody's head for an electroencephalogram.
		And they're doing all the measuring.
		But one electrode was left free by mistake.
		And they couldn't understand the readings they were getting.
		And it turned out that electrode was picking up the heart energy of the examiner.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No kidding.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		So when somebody says, you know, it's just the heart after all, that's because that's your brain saying it, Art.
		And we always joke over here that the brain lost its mind.
		It lost its mind because it's that heart that's the most powerful organ in the body.
		It's the one muscle in your body that, unless it's diseased, is just as young at autopsy after death when you're older as when you were younger.
		We could go on tonight about this, but when we talk about the heart, this is some kind of organ we're going to be talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You already laid a number of facts, in fact, worrisome ones to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember a shot movie about the space shuttle saying, you know, 5 million moving parts all built by the lowest bidder as they got ready to launch, you know, and you're telling me the heart is a lot more complex than that.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Well, you aren't kidding.
		Just think of it, you know, the heart is capable of emitting 5,000 millivolts of electricity.
		The brain, 140 millivolts.
		And I think some people, maybe a lot less than what I've been dealing with over here.
		But I can tell you this, the Voyager spacecraft circling around over there in Saturn sent back its energy with 10 millivolts.
		So if you think that that heart is not something special, we should be listening to the ancient Hawaiians, to the ancient Egyptians, who used to mummify the brain of the heart and throw away the brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that there would be a proportionately less amount of cellular memory transference with other organs, liver, lungs?
		Would there be a varying amount?
		The way you describe the heart, very interesting.
		There might be more transference with the heart, do you think, or not?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I actually think so, and that's an excellent research question.
		You do think so?
		I not only think so, again, I know so.
		And how do we know that?
		By some of the interviews we'll share later on in the show, by the data we've collected, because the heart is unique.
		It's right in the center.
		I just gave you a whole documentation from memory of the power of this organ.
		It is immensely powerful.
		And then we also talked already a little about cellular memory.
		Now, you take those millions of cells.
		We know the heart has 40,000 neurons in it.
		Years ago, they formed a field called neurocardiology, endocardiology, knowing that the heart has hormones in it.
		It has substances we used to think were only in the brain.
		But we now find them in the heart.
		A substance called atrial naturitic factor.
		It's a factor we call a balance hormone.
		It keeps the body in balance.
		That's in the heart.
		It looks to us in our research that the heart reacts to signals in our environment faster, and yes I said faster, than the brain.
		So if we're going to put that heart in somebody else's chest, it is awfully naive to think that that powerful organ isn't really doing something more than we thought it did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, but you know, if you prove that, doctor, then you raise ethical questions for hearts transplanturgeons that have never been raised before.
		I mean, it's tough enough as it is right now.
		And I wonder if you've been told that by some of them, because it's obvious to me.
		If you prove what you're telling us tonight, and I have a feeling you will to this audience, then they've got ethical problems that go beyond the ones they've got already.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it's a good news for me as a scientist is that it's actually just the opposite.
		We'll talk a little later.
		I'm a transplant recipient, not of a heart, but a bone marrow transplant, because I almost died of cancer, as you described earlier.
		And the good news here is because transplant is such a sacred process that when we interview these donor families and recipient families, as we'll discuss this evening, this is a source of relief, not fear or ethical dilemma, because are we to say that by taking that sacred gift, it's nothing but a piece of tissue?
		It is not.
		It is a sacred gift.
		And the research we'll present tonight actually documents how important that is and how gracious a gift that is rather than alarming people away from it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I guess I get that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A piece of the donor more than just a pump, a physical pump, then goes to the recipient.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Isn't it almost, and I know this is awfully radical to say, but isn't it also a way almost of being immortal?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I guess in a well, in a way, it's a sort of immortality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure that as I consider immortality, I consider consciousness, which is a whole other subject we could talk about.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's for sure, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But certainly, at least in a sense, yes, sure.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		it's a continuation, and from a Hawaiian point, they have a word called lokahi.
		We are all connected, and as you'll hear tonight, these transplant stories, in some ways, are, I'm sorry I published them, because some of them are so dramatic, and we'll tell some of them tonight that they cause what we call in Hawaii chicken skin.
		You're just cause yourself to get the goosebumps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know, but it's the only way we're ever really going to understand more about the nature of ourselves, the real nature of ourselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's just not enough people looking at these questions.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That's why I so appreciative to have the time to share this because it's just not been.
		Understand Art.
		I published this book, Heart's Code, in 1998.
		Only this year have they come from the BBC, from Germany, from Spain, from Russia to talk to me.
		Because I think now when you publish enough data, even if there's stories, sometimes a lot of stories told with care and collected carefully become legitimate data worthy of listening to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I've got to tell you something.
		As somebody who does a nightly talk show, I'm a little disappointed in some ways in the American media because what I'm finding, and of course I deal with stories, you know, that are out on the edge of every field.
		I'm finding that I'm getting more interesting current data from the BBC than I am from American major outlets of a similar size.
		I mean, it's not even a close call.
		They're all over a lot of stories.
		And it's just, I'm kind of sorry.
		I have to go to the BBC to get these things.
		I wish I could be getting them from CBS and NBC.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're right.
		They were the first ones to pick this up.
		There you are.
		They were going to Oxford to present it.
		They've been over there for four years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		They're the first mainland show to cover this topic in any detail with me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		The first one.
		When they've had this book come out, you know how authors push for it to get on shows and they want a PR.
		My concern is to get this data out.
		Gary Schwartz and I published this article more than two years ago.
		And now, just now, some of the media is picking this up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, this is the great America.
		This is the place that everybody comes when they're really sick, you know, as a last-ditch effort.
		They fly, if they can afford it, they fly to America and they go to the very best.
		And so how can this be?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm afraid we can talk, that's be a whole other show of the status of medicine in the United States, because it's really a very mechanical approach in medicine.
		And, you know, even with all the modern medical marvels, we can only explain 46% of the variants.
		That is to say, modern medicine only knows 46% of why a person gets cancer, why they get a heart attack.
		I just lectured at a medical school the other day, and I pointed out, you do realize, don't you, that more than half the people who have a heart attack have none of the heart attack risk factors.
		What is that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's comforting.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And the other thing that makes me, and I'm going to get some trouble tonight with some of my doctor colleagues, but who among us doesn't know that person who has violated every health rule and been a health reprobate their whole life and lived forever, practically?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And the person who followed every health rule.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm hoping for that, by the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Me too.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I said, I know when they diagnosed me with stage four cancer.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I never smoked.
unidentified		I don't swear.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I think I'm a nice guy.
		I do everything to show aloha and caring.
		And I thought, and they misdiagnosed my cancer miserably.
		So I think what's happened in medicine, and certainly it offers many miracles and modern things to do, but it's tended to not to be a blended medicine that looks into the things that you and I will examine tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess I do want to ask you about being diagnosed with the stage four cancer and for being who you are, being a doctor yourself.
		Hold on, doctor.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		It's hard to imagine how a doctor who would fully understand the implications of the diagnosis of stage four cancer would take the news.
		Probably not very well.
		Or perhaps I should broaden it and say that most doctors would not accept that news very well at all.
		Perhaps not even as well as the average person.
unidentified		I don't know.
unidentified		We'll ask.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, Dr. Paul Piersall is my guest, and we are going to be telling you some fascinating stories.
		And by the end of the night, you'll believe something you did not believe before.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 20, 2002.
		When I dig a dig a down about an hour ago Do a look around me with a little wind flow With a little girl in a Hollywood bungalow Are you a rockin'little lady in the city of life?
		Or did you not alone think you're a city of life?
		City of life
		I'm wont to be abused Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Sweet dreams are made of this Who am I to disagree?
		Travel the world and the seven seas Everybody is looking for something.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 20th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Certainly, if my guest is Dr. Paul Piercello, we're talking about some incredibly interesting things that you probably didn't know about yourself.
		I certainly didn't know about myself.
		I didn't know a lot about heart, did you?
		But there's so much more to tell.
		We'll be right back to tell.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell you a very quick little story.
		I was a medic in the Air Force.
		And of course, as a result, I work in a hospital.
		And I worked in one in Amarillo, Texas.
		And one day, a girlfriend of mine, this was when I was 20 years old, said, what's this on your shoulder blade?
		You know, there's a big lump on my shoulder blade.
		Something you wouldn't notice, right?
		Your bed partner certainly would.
		And I said, oh, my God, I don't know.
		I went in, and of course I knew the doctors because I worked with them every day and they knew me.
		And so I went into this doctor, a captain whose name I will not mention for his sake.
		And I said, take a look at this, Doc.
		And he said, oh, my.
		He said, we're going to have to go get that right away.
		Well, turned out it was a great, it was really big, a big tumor.
		It was a big, nasty old tumor.
		And they took it out and sent it off for the pathology.
		And in those days, you had to wait.
		It took, I forget, two or three days, you know.
		And at the end of that time, he was so somber.
		He called me into his office.
		You know, took me off duty and called me into his office and sat me down and looked me in the face.
		And there was this long silence.
		And he said, well, you've got about six months.
		You know, so I went totally ashen.
		I turned utterly ashen white.
		And he took about a two-second take of just sitting there and then totally cracked up and fell on the floor.
		And ha ha ha.
		Funniest thing here, he couldn't stop laughing.
		He was on the floor for five minutes while my color slowly returned.
		And so for a few seconds, Dr. Persol, I was there.
		And so then, what's it like for a physician to be diagnosed with stage four?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, doctors are no different than anyone else when it comes to these types of things.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		What was interesting and pertinent to what we're discussing tonight, Art, is that I wasn't shocked when they told me I had cancer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I had felt in my heart, which was something my colleagues laughed at because it sounded like new age gobbledygook to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You knew you were sick.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I said, not only that, Art, I said, I think I've got cancer.
		I'm feeling tired.
		I'm under the weather.
		And they said, ah, you're stressed at the clinic.
		You're running this.
		You're doing this.
		And I begged them to do these tests.
		And they said, it's just ridiculous.
		So I ordered my own CAT scan.
		And I could feel it in my heart.
		And I'm sure your listeners will agree with that phrase.
		We use that phrase a lot.
		It's in my heart.
		My heart goes out to you.
unidentified		Sure.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		We'll talk tonight about that is no longer metaphor.
		The heart literally thinks, connects with other hearts, and feels.
		So I felt that I had this cancer.
		So finally, after six months of agony, with pain that I just cannot describe, I finally got the CAT scan.
		I hear people in my own hospital crying during my CAT scan.
		So this is not good news.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, not good news.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		They come out and they say, you have a soccer ball-sized tumor in your hip.
		You have, I don't know why they always say six months.
		They do seem to say that a lot, don't they?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I guess.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Which, pertinent to your first guest and the issue of time, you know, as if physicians could give a time limit to this kind of thing.
		It's ridiculous to say a phrase like that.
		But they said, you've got about a half year to live.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Basketball size.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, massive.
		And then they said, there's not much we can do.
		We'll try.
		Went through chemotherapy, and I won't bore your listeners with my long story.
		And I described it all in Miracle in Maui because I wanted to get it out to the medical community and let them understand what we mean by miracles, not these old kind of weird kind of things.
		But something profoundly powerful happened.
		Had they listened to my heart, had I even listened earlier to my heart, might have been diagnosed earlier.
		And here's all these people now filling my heart, and I mean that literally, with hopelessness, with despair, and I certainly don't embrace, and we can talk about that tonight with any callers or anybody else, I'm not embracing this idea that if you have the right attitude, you're going to live forever.
		And if you love enough, that's just ridiculous.
		I know why people die.
		I've got the answer.
		We're mortal.
		And I'm tired of that kind of, it's hate to sound angry about it, but I heard a lot of that.
		If you had the right attitude, you would have lived.
		That wasn't the point.
		But the point was that they were giving me a death sentence and not allowing me to heal in my way.
		And here we are now.
		That's maybe almost 14 years ago.
		I feel you'll get a laugh out of this art.
		I go for my physical exam about a year ago.
		And you're always worried, even after you've gone through something like this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, it'll come back.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I just all know it.
		So I get a call and the doctor says, you've got to come in and talk to me.
		I've got bad news.
		And I thought, oh, geez, I made it.
		So I go in there and we sit down, similar to your story, I guess.
		And he looks at me.
		He says, Dr. Pearson, here's the news.
		Your cholesterol is 210.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And I said, you know what?
		This calls for a celebration.
		I'm going out to get a Big Mac.
		And pertinent to that story, I remember, and I've been dead three times.
		I don't know how many of you guests come on here and tell you stories I'll learn from my death, but I've got to be brought back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have some remarkable stories.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I know you have.
		And here I am dying, and I can tell you this as fact, and now as scientist, I could feel the hearts of those around me bringing me back.
		Hearts connect to other hearts.
		I hate to just bring the scientist out me again on this, but there was a study done at the Samsung Medical Research Institute.
		They did a treadmill study, interesting study.
		They took a group of biopsied heart cells.
		They took it from somebody, And then that person from whom they took the biopsy to check their heart cells was sent across town to a lab to do a stress test.
		His cells were left on the other side of town.
		While running on the treadmill, his cells began to beat faster across town.
		Now, that stuff sounds so bizarre that most scientists, therefore, will say, I'm not going to deal with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How was this observed, might I ask?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		They had the lab technicians take these cells out to Because that, if you got the right word, they're coincidentally, because they're looking at this and they're wondering, why are these cells pulsating like this so fast?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		So all they have to do is look up the treadmill test time and say, my gosh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There it is.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		It's at the same time.
		It shouldn't surprise us, though.
		I'm sure you've had other people on, like Dr. Dossi, who talks a lot about non-locality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, oh, yes, of course.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And that is not any weird hypothesis.
		And it may be because of non-locality.
		It may be about electricity.
		I'm no world expert on all the explanations.
		I'm here only to ask, please don't bite my finger.
		Look where I'm pointing.
		We as scientists, not just me, but Gary Schwartz, Linda Russik, dozens of other scientists have been trying to point out, listen to your heart.
		It thinks differently.
		There is no doubt.
		Your brain is an arrogant, pushy, sort of a health maintenance organization that's governed by trying to get things.
		And I don't mean to get vulgar on your show, but by the four F's.
		Crude, fight, flea, and sex.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, yep, yep, yep.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Not the heart.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		The heart is like a little child gently pugging at your sleeve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you see, I've always been told that, you know, the Fs that you mentioned are in the center part of our brain, our reptile center part of the brain, and that the outer part of the brain, the front part of the brain, the frontal lobe, is engaged in the higher aspects of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you're telling me some of this is really the heart.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Not only that, certainly heart and brain are connected.
		The heart's energy, the heart speaks to the brain.
		The old theory in medicine was the brain is in charge of everything.
		The brain runs everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		But I believe you have a guest coming on later on this week.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I checked your website that's going to talk a little bit about what he calls the God spot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I believe so.
		I may have that wrong, but talking about what happens when you really, when you meditate deeply, for example, and other parts of the brain take over.
		Well, we now know that you can do cardio meditation.
		That is, if you calm your heart down and shut up your loudmouth brain, that heart will send messages to you.
		Every scientist listening to my voice knows that your feelings are faster than your thoughts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		You can't keep up with them.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		We now know, and I'm sure you do this even though you have a scientific mine art, you make decisions on your show as to who will be on, the validity of your guests, how you're going to plan your program, not only mentally, but what's in your heart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you better believe it.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		You may describe it as intuition.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we always say that, though, as a phrase.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think we've contemplated it as a reality as we are tonight with you.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
		We haven't because it's fallen into a phrase I don't like, parapsychology, like it's beside psychology or paranormal.
		This is a normal event.
		The heart has always been there doing this for us.
		Nobody gives anybody a Valentine's-shaped brain.
		We have always...
		Here's what they could do.
		Please point to yourself.
		Most people point right to their heart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Right dead on to the heart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I just did.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And I hope tonight that people will open their hearts to this because the brain's going to say, I don't want to hear this.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I'm in charge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's tell some stories.
		I know that you published in the Journal of Integrative Medicine and the Journal of Near-Death Studies, and you've told some stories in there.
		So, you know, most of my listeners will not have heard these stories.
		Let loose.
		Tell me a couple.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's my job, as I said, when we collect these stories, and I have some rules as we have done them.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I'm interested in collecting the stories from the people who do not want to tell them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		That helps me right there.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Our criterion for collecting this is I wanted to talk to the donor families, to the recipient families, to the recipient, to the surgeon if possible, or at least the medical staff, and collect this data and not try to lead them, and I'm not perfect on this, and just let them talk.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about, are there ever privacy issues that get in the way of your doing that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know sometimes the donor and the recipient are not known to each other, and that's the way it's supposed to be.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Right, we have to be very careful with that, and we never violate that.
		And some states have different rules about this, and there are ethics involved in this.
		But these patients, the sad thing for us has been, since I published this material, patients call every day saying, Dr. Pearsall, I want to talk about this, but I've been made front of by other transplant patients who say this guy's nuts.
		I don't want to hear about it.
		By other doctors, or they get sent to the psychiatrist because they're crazy.
		And before we tell these stories, I just want to make sure we're clear on this.
		We are scientists looking at this.
		I want to know why this happens.
		Is it due, to some degree, to all these terrible, these strong immunosuppressive drugs that these people are on for life?
		Is it due because of the transplant process, to the trauma?
		There are many other explanations, but to be a good scientist, you must not think either or, but perhaps and.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if you have a heart transplant, you're going to be on.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		You're going to be on immunosuppressive drugs your entire life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For the rest of your life.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And some of those are very, very strong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bet they are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is the average expectation of a transplant patient these days?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		For heart transplant?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		It's really increased now.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I don't have the recent data at my hands, but it's gone up to certainly over a decade and longer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And some much longer.
		And that's why I'm very careful.
		And we can tell these stories all night because we have collected now over 200.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My, my.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And I'm Very cautious.
		And remember the cartridge.
		I want to interview everybody here that I can.
		And I want to just take their tape down as they say it.
		So, if I can just tell you one of the stories that came in today before we get to the other ones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you a quick one that doesn't count first.
		This one doesn't count because I gave a lecture on this, and an internist in the audience was smirking the whole time I was talking, like, this is ridiculous.
		And this happens to me after many lectures.
		This guy came up afterwards and said, I need to talk to you in private.
		I'm going to tell you a story, but you can't tell him I told you.
		Happens to like I'm a confessional here.
		And he says, this is a story that I hope that you will publish someplace.
		Well, I can't because I don't have the data.
		Here's what he told.
		A little girl had had a heart transplant.
		Now, the decision for the transplantation nowadays has a lot to do with size more than anything else, size of the body, to match it up.
		This little girl, he wanted to introduce to me.
		So she finally comes up, pulls open her blouse, and you've seen that.
		Have you ever seen the heart transplant or the heart, even for open heart surgery, the scars there, especially in the old days?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Quite large.
		They're better than that, but quite large.
		This poor little child says, Dr. Pearsall, can you see my scar?
		I have a little angel in my chest.
		I have someone's other heart here.
		And her mom says, you can tell the doctor everything.
		And she said, well, I know that my donor's name is Krista.
		Now, she doesn't know her donor.
		We're able to check later to find out that the kid's name that she got the heart from was Christine, only called Krista by her parents.
		How'd she know that?
		Well, that isn't even a story yet.
		Because then the mother says, go ahead.
		I guess this was kind of an insult.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		May I stop you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you sure that there would have been no way that she was notified by parents or a physician of the name of her donor?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Not with this case, because it's not mine.
		The other ones tonight are the ones that I wanted to control that for.
		That's possible.
		But that's not even the story.
		Here comes a story that I am, part of the story I am sure of.
		Here's the thing that stunned me.
		And again, for your audience, this is hearsay.
		This is somebody telling me, then the kid telling me, so I had no way of controlling this.
		But she said, the mother says, got to tell her because you're not sleeping at night, honey.
		And she said, Dr. Pearsall, maybe it's the medicine, but I keep dreaming of Krista being hit in the head with a hammer by a man behind a church.
		I keep dreaming that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Well, guess what happened?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		That's how her donor had been killed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		That we know.
		Now, any good scientist out there saying there's many ways this could have ended.
		This kid might have picked this up.
		They may have seen it on TV.
		I don't know.
		So that case doesn't count.
		That's just a warm-up case for tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, it certainly counts for me.
		Oh, my God.
		So she remembered her death and suffering nightmares from her death.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And she could see it just as clear.
		You know what you do with kids?
		I said, draw it for me, honey.
		She drew this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She drew it.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And it was just amazing art to see that.
		The day that your production team called me to ask me to come on the show, a man had called an hour before.
		This is a doctor who got a new heart.
		This is when your production staff said they got chicken skin or goosebumps.
		And you've got a heart staff to do that too because they're very careful in their interviews.
		And this guy calls up and he says, you're the guy doing that work.
		I always wonder what they mean by that.
		Does it sound like an assault or something?
		And I said, what can I do for you?
		He said, I have a new heart.
		I've had it for weeks.
		I can't sleep.
		I can't nap.
		I close my eyes.
		I see the image or I dream the image or I nap the image of some young woman falling down three flights of stairs and it's me and I break my neck.
		Three flights of stairs.
		I read your stupid book and nobody will check.
		So I call the nurses station and I say, we have a confidentiality issue here.
		She said, yes, all the nurses are upset.
		The doctor's upset because we've heard that dream.
		We're not allowed to tell him.
		But his donor was a college co-head left at a Kegger, a beer party in the frat house and she was left upstairs about three flights of stairs.
		Everybody else left to go out and eat, forgot her.
		She woke up and stumbled down the three flights of stairs and broke her neck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Again, these two stories, and we'll talk more about them tonight, these are reported to me.
		So anybody calling could say, you can't prove that.
		I can't.
		These are stories just told to me.
		The other ones, I got.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have personally.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		The ones I caught.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		but i want that but those were just all they are on story they are and what you know is there i mean what do you Are you then allowed to go back and say, "Guess what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I did a little checking," or you were unable?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And I said, can I talk to him in generalities about this?
		Yes.
		And I don't know the answer, and I'll know the answer hopefully tomorrow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're still working on this one?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, I can't abandon him.
		I mean, he just can't sleep.
		And this poor guy, and I'm sure you've had other people on your show talking about these kind of things.
		People who report things that are out of the box are...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I interviewed a lady who had a heart and lung transplant and then had these cravings of the young boy.
		think you probably know the story was on Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		Exactly.
		But what you're describing now is, of course, I suppose the last and most dramatic moment of these prisons, the donors' lives, the end of their lives.
		And I can imagine how it would haunt the recipient.
		I mean, that makes absolute sense.
		That's a lot more dramatic than what I've heard before.
		That's astounding, in fact.
		I wonder what can be done to help these people.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Finally doing what you're doing, what I'm doing.
		Open this up for discussion.
		And let me just say this.
		Let's suppose we're totally wrong tonight.
		All this is bogus.
		And it's not true at all with all the research, and it shows out that I'm totally wrong.
		We still have to help These people.
		These stories are still coming.
		They're still happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold tight, Doctor.
		We'll be right back.
		Dr. Paul Pearsall is my guest, and we're talking about people who have received organs.
		Specifically, we're talking mostly about the heart, and more than just organs have come along.
		Now, you've just got to ask what that means about us.
		And obviously, the answer is a whole lot more than we ever thought.
		Remarkable stuff.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 20th, 2002.
		Turn the dawn to fade.
		We were too hot to be sleeping.
		We have to get out before the magic out of the way.
		I believe that the best world is limited.
		And I don't care for much, but I'm not letting go.
		I believe it's too much to believe.
		Lift your eyes and feel you can.
		Reach for a start to show you a path.
		I figured it out what I needed was someone to show me.
		You know you can't fool me.
		I'm your love and you're too long.
		It started so easy.
		You want to carry on.
		Carry on.
		You're lost in love.
		I don't know what you're thinking about.
		I fell out of touch.
		But I'm back on my feet.
		You need it to be what you want.
		So lift your eyes if you feel you again.
		Reach for a stop.
		Watch your love, you're a plan.
		I figured it out what you need.
		If someone should know.
		Oh, you know you can't fool me.
		I'm in love.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 20th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Dr. Paul Pearsall, and I suggest you stay right where you are.
		Gary in Westland, Michigan says, are you know, those of us who are old enough to know, know the heart thinks.
		This is why we've had so many hit songs that contain the word heart.
		Go back and listen to the oldies.
		Well, I don't have to.
		listen to them all the time and you are exactly correct Well, okay, once again, Dr. Paul Pearsall, Doctor, just a quick question.
		Why do we have these, what is the rationale behind the laws that protect the donor and the recipient or the recipient from information about the donor?
		Why do they do that?
		What's the rationale?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think probably everybody, each state probably has their own reasons that these laws evolve and they vary.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		But I think the idea is that that donation may lead to the family that's going to get this heart coming back and asking for something more or more acquaintance and intimacy to the donor family than that donor family may want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And although I have been at several ceremonies now that have been set up, and we'll read some stories about it tonight or talk about them, set up especially for the donors to meet the recipient families and vice versa.
		And the recipient, I've been there, and don't forget, as I said, I had a bone neural transplant myself.
		So I've been there as a speaker and observed these phenomenon, and I have never been moved so than to see these people.
		They have what's called a giving tree.
		And very often the recipient will come up and hang up a picture of their donor on the tree, and everybody just cries and moves.
		So I understand why some families would say no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, have you seen enough of this that, as a general rule, do you feel the law should be perhaps changed?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I certainly think that the options should be wide open and nobody should be prevented from it.
		I don't think anybody should be forced to this.
		But there seems to be a strong therapeutic value on both ends for this.
		Let me just give you one strong example.
		There were two physicians who had two just charming little sons, and they doubted on these two little boys.
		They wouldn't even go out for dinner.
		And then they finally decided, we are going to have to go out, so we're going to interview babysitters.
		They interviewed every babysitter.
		They finally got one who was a registered nurse or new CPR that watched the kids.
		They go out to the restaurant and they get the call that every parent dreads.
		Rush home.
		They rush home and one of their sons had drowned it in the bathtub.
		How this happened was the nurse went to the phone just for a few moments.
		You know, this drowning reflex in children, and he had drowned it.
		They don't add the heart to another boy.
		Didn't want to have anything to do with this.
		They were so hurt, understandably.
		And at least his heart was given to someone else.
		Later on, a few years later, the mother said, I really wish I could see the recipient.
		I believe there was a picture of this reunion in one of the articles that I had published, actually.
		But this woman is a physician now.
		So she goes to meet the recipient family and sees the little boy who has her son's heart beating in his chest right.
		This little boy looks up at her and I will never forget this phrase.
		Says, Mommy, I missed you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh my God.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Well, lots of other explanations for this, but everybody around is just stunned.
unidentified		So this woman walked over.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		This boy at this point was about, I'd say, seven or eight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Seven or eight and looked up at the bottom.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		But the transplant has been made four or five years ago.
		And again, I hate to sound like a melodramatic here, but that isn't even the whole story.
		Because then this woman, a physician, walks over and says, Can I listen to your son's chest, the recipient mom's chest, son's chest.
		She puts her head against this boy's chest and listens to her son's heart beating.
		At that moment, the recipient boy whispers to this mother of the donor, how is Auntie Gwen?
		Auntie Gwen, says this physician to me later, is her sister who was dying of cancer when her little boy was still alive.
		How did this boy know that?
		I asked the recipient mother, have anybody in your family named Auntie Gwen?
		Nope.
		And then what made this story even more dramatic for me, and I witnessed this, is when this mother of the donor has her head against the chest of the boy, when they're done, they embrace.
		And the little recipient boy reaches up and grabs the nose of the donor mother and tweaks it, twists it like you would a little child.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Twist it.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And this poor donor mother begins to cry.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And she said, I used to do that to my son all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh my.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And it just, it is very difficult.
		And every time the BBC or Germany television just followed me around for a few days and they said, we want to talk to your patients, I said, never again.
		Never again.
		Because these patients, when they are mocked sometimes, as I said before, you've done so many shows on controversial and cutting-edge things.
		And some of these people pay a horrendous price, Art, for doing this.
		So I've had to guard their confidence so, so carefully.
		And you have to remember, I'm a clinical neuropsychologist.
		I was trained to just worship this brain as the be-all, end-all.
		But I have learned now that all these metaphors, everything we've said about the heart, is literally true.
		It thinks, it connects with other hearts.
		You know, the brain's had its turn for a few decades.
		Maybe it's time to look at the heart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that's a transference of some kind of consciousness we're talking about here, Doctor.
		You know, I did a show a few days ago on the subject of reincarnation.
		And reincarnation is interesting.
		During the break, my wife said, Gee, what you're talking about sounds just like reincarnation.
		Well, not quite.
		With reincarnation, unless you search for these memories of some other life, they're not conscious memories, and if they're affecting you, it is subconsciously more than likely.
		So this is not like reincarnation in the sense that, my God, it appears some part of consciousness is being transferred along with the organ.
		And that should be, we should now start to wonder about the nature of consciousness itself, not just memory, but that approach is consciousness.
		I mean, that's a contemporary how-is and so-and-so.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I think you're absolutely right.
		I'm glad you said it, not me, but I think that's where the research is heading, Art.
		We've always put consciousness in the brain, sort of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Although most of the guests you've had on who speak about this know it's much more than that.
		That we cannot separate this.
		The heart has such a unique, unique energy.
		And who among us hasn't felt it?
		What mother, listening to my voice now, hasn't sensed in her heart something wrong with her child and felt it?
		Think of all the shows you've done over the years, Art, that have had to do with telepathy, with remote viewing, with clairvoyance.
		And very often we're always looking for, boy, the effect's always subtle.
		It's very subtle.
		Maybe, just maybe, this research is offering some answers, not all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's all coming back to this non-locality.
		I think so.
		That's what it feels like to me.
		And I do all these interviews, and that's where I'm certainly headed, and I have a feeling it is where you're headed, too.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I think you're right, because I think it bemeans the importance of what we're talking about.
		It's just simply just putting an organ in somebody and some kind of special, weird energy is transferred.
		I think it's much more than that.
		And that's what you're dancing around when you're talking about that.
		As a scientist, I want to make sure I have my ducks lined up and make sure that these stories are verified and reported carefully.
		And I know when the most recent publication was in the Journal of Near-Death Studies, and we did open-ended tape interviews, quoted verbatim, with transplant recipients, family members, donor family, and friends, and nurses and doctors where possible.
		And even in that article, the stories were just dramatic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One night I did something, you know, I'm all the time doing things that other people won't do.
		And I just opened the lines one night in an open line night, and I'm going to do it again soon, too, real soon.
		And I said, I only want to talk to people who have experienced clinical death.
		And oh, my God, the stories I got were absolutely incredible.
		Now, you said you experienced clinical death yourself.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely, three times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And yes, and do you have any memories of the time that you were clinically dead?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And I'm going to answer your question, but I've always been reluctant to do so because I'm concerned about credibility, and I never talk about them in lectures because it looks like I'm trying to hold myself up as the example.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, your credibility is established easily by reading your bio, which I did at the beginning of the show.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		in because it's it's very i'm a scientist and i know that some of the things i'm saying i used to explain since i've studied the brain as a psychologist and i think well this is due to a little firing at a lack of oxygen and death and all of these things yes let me answer your question sure all three times that i had died i saw saw my grandmother.
		In Hawaiian, they call the word tutu.
		There she is in her wheelchair, saying clear to me as could possibly be each time, pointing to her heart, which is why she died, her heart.
		Saying, go back, you must tell them.
		Go back, you must tell them.
		Every time I went through this, I saw her.
		The surgeons, when I was in for surgery for this cancer, said, even under anesthesia, which is bizarre, coming out of this, you would say, Grandma, tell them what?
		Grandma, tell them what.
		So I've had that experience over and over again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember the context in which you saw her?
		I mean, can you compare the reality that's around you right now as you're on the phone with me with the experience you had with your grandmother?
		In other words, was she solid?
		Were you in a place you did not recognize?
		Were you in a setting you did recognize?
		How did this manifest?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		All three times, and again, this is my solo experience, it was not like where I sit now.
		You and I talked about non-locality.
		To say the word missed is wrong.
		It wasn't what I see here.
		It was her, but it wasn't a visual image.
		It wasn't something I saw with my eyes.
		It's something I, you know what I'm going to say, saw with my heart.
		It was an image, a perception of the heart.
		It wasn't something that you would see in a picture.
		And it was something that I felt more than saw.
		And you mentioned reincarnation.
		I don't know if you probably are familiar knowing you with Ian Stevenson's work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Brilliant, careful researcher.
		Again, hundreds upon hundreds of cases, interesting to me and you clearly, because these were children.
		These weren't people saying, I was Napoleon of the former life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, I know.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		These were carefully done.
		What I'm suggesting in my research and others who are looking at the heart, we've always looked for answers and whatever this consciousness is and this connection of consciousness in the brain.
		I'm suggesting that it's certainly much broader than that.
		It certainly extends beyond the body.
		And remember, when the heart beats, it's energy.
		It is energy.
		And energy contains information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't you suppose, Doctor, that the critics of this, and there still are critics of heart transplant, they just say, it's flat wrong.
		In playing God, it's wrong.
		The critics of this actually might take ammunition from what you're saying tonight to bolster their case.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Right, I've been told that, and you're quite right.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		It's funny, you wonder what those critics so dead against heart transplant would do if their heart was failing totally or someone they love was losing their heart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was a commercial about that that ran on radio for a long time that was really, really good.
		I think the fellow's heart or something or another was failing, and the doctor said, well, we've got a heart, you know, but it's from a black person or something or another.
		Did you ever hear that commercial?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I've heard about it, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and of course, he ended up the alternative was rather immediate, and so all of a sudden his prejudice just melted right away.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		That's funny.
		That's another example.
		I was rounding with patients and saw a heart transplant patient, and the man had heard that he had received the heart of a black man, a white guy.
		And he said, they should have asked me first.
		And I said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And I said, don't worry about it then.
		I said, we have a money-back guarantee here.
		I'm going to cut that out right now and get that right out of you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Remarkable how he didn't want to have that done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		But anybody listening to my voice now that's had a family member with a transplant such as me or a child who's needed a transplant or those waiting for organs tonight, you know, if I can bring a little bit of lightness to this, I went to Seattle to lecture on transplant and went to the transplant unit.
		And they all wanted to hear me talk about this.
		And it was a horrendously rainy, terrible night when we landed.
		I was there an hour late, and I go into the unit and I say, I'm so sorry.
		It's a terrible, rainy, slippery night.
		And they all said in unison, good, because they're all waiting for transplants.
		And there's that kind of black humor.
		And the photographer stands up on the stool to take our picture together.
		And he almost falls.
		And this lady next to me, must have been about 50, very weak, goes.
		She says, if he falls, I get his heart.
		So I don't mean to make light of this, but transplant is a sacred thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know, but in situations like that, there has to still be humor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's day-to-day life, and you're hoping for a heart.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Especially in those units.
		I lived in that transplant unit.
		We call ourselves a tribe of the transplanted.
		And we would sit together late at night when the doctors wouldn't hear us, because, God forbid, we would be referred to a psychiatrist.
		And these heart transplant patients would say, we're going to tell you this story.
		But don't you tell anybody else?
		Because there are heart transplant recipients out there who will hear this and say, this guy is nuts.
		I've had anger from some of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Because some people are more cardiosensitive.
		They tune into this.
		But I interviewed a man the other day that said, a heart is a pump.
		I'm a used car salesman.
		And a pump is a pump, and a generator is a generator.
		All it is.
		And then I had one of the...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see, and the people who are getting hearts, who get angry about it, are really protecting themselves because they don't want to believe this because of the implications of it, obviously.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And I understand that and defend it absolutely, totally.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		But the problem that we're, and I think you're dancing around this when you talk about consciousness, the one thing that's coming out in every kind of show you're doing, all these issues that are sort of out-of-the-box things that scientists are looking at, is this extension of consciousness beyond this Limited view we have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, are you right?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And that's hard for us.
		And those of us who speak of it, like many of the guests you have and the pioneers that speak about this, really suffer for this.
		And they're seen as the fringe of this.
		But I think that if we don't have, start, at least in my view, speaking as Hawaiian and as a doctor, start looking to a generation of the heart, we're going to start continuing to behave as the brain does, which is territorial by boundaries.
		The brain is in a lethal alliance with its own body.
		That's why the heart's getting killed by this brain.
		It drives us beyond recognition.
		Who among us has not gone to bed at night and that brain won't let us sleep?
		The brain says, oh, don't you go to sleep.
		You better worry about this.
		You better be concerned about that.
		If we can only let that heart energy come out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		More times than I can count.
		And I have to sleep twice a day.
		Doctor, hold on.
		We're at the bottom of the air.
		We'll be right back.
		Dr. Paul Pearsall is my guest.
		And we're discussing hard information, actually, about what's come along with heart transplants.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 20th, 2002.
		I can feel it coming in the air tonight.
		Oh, Lord.
		I'm away for the Lord for my life.
		Oh, Lord.
		Can I feel it coming in the air tonight?
		Oh Lord, Oh Lord Cause if you told me you were drowning, I would not end the hand.
		The End Be it sight, sand, smell, or touch, something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of the touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak roots deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
		To lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing.
		All these things in our memories are And they use them to help us to fight Yeah Why does this all take this place All this strength just gonna be
		Why Take a free ride Take a place Have a scene It's all free Why would I want to say it to the end Sweat so hard just to end my fears I'm doing my life All my hands But by
		now, by now I shall cry Thank you.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired March 20th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Dr. Paul Pearson.
		And we're talking about transference of what?
		Cellular memory, RNA, DNA, or perhaps, I don't know, if you listen to the stories, perhaps some kind of form of consciousness will be right back.
unidentified		Loud noise
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, if you're tuning in, Lane, I think it's probably important that you know that Dr. Pearsall, the magnitude of the person you're listening to, graduated as Distinguished Scholar from the University of Michigan, did his postgraduate training at the Harvard and Albert Einstein Schools of Medicine,
		designed and served as chief of the award-winning psychiatric clinic at Sinai Hospital, was director of behavioral medicine at Beaumont Hospital, professor of clinical psychiatry and neurosciences at the Wayne State University School of Medicine, has authored over 300 professional journal articles and 14 best-selling books, which, by the way, you can pursue on my website.
		We've got links up there tonight.
		Dr. Pierceall, you know, before too much time slips away, any other stories you might have, first-hand knowledge on your part, I would love to hear.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I think that's important, Art, because the other stories I told you, again, are not directly collected by me.
		This story is right off the tapes, published in the journal.
		This is an 18-year-old donor.
		He was killed in an automobile accident.
		This is a quote from the donor's father, a biochemist, by the way.
		My son wrote poetry.
		We waited more than a year before we were able to even begin to clean his room and go through his clothes.
		We found there a book of poems he had never shown us, and it startled us.
		He wrote the poems when he was only 12 years old.
		He'd hidden them.
		We sobbed for hours after we read them.
		He wrote a scene of his own sudden death.
		He played guitar, and he was really a talented musician and very, very exceptional and talented kid.
		There was a long pause with tears on the tape.
		He was a son any parent would have been proud of, a really perfect, loving son.
		Long pause again.
		Those words, I mean, Danny's words, I can't get them out of my mind.
		They were about how Danny felt he was going to be killed young.
		And not only that, Doc, you've got to hear this.
		He saw himself donating his heart To someone.
		Can you imagine thinking that at age 12?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		At Danny's age.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Tate continues.
		We remember that he had done a class project in sixth grade about organ donation.
		He told us then he wanted to donate his heart if anything happened to him.
		But we thought he was just talking like a lot of little young teenagers do about issues of dying and death.
		But he wasn't at all depressed.
		He never was.
		Actually, it was almost a matter of fact about it.
		When my wife and I met his recipient, it was like, my God, it blew us away.
		She acted just like him.
		She had his mannerisms.
		Now, I interviewed the recipient, the eight-year-old female.
		She had had endocarditis and heart failure, and she got Danny's heart.
		Listen, art, and art listeners, to what she said on tape, verbatim.
		When they showed me pictures of their son, my heart began to race faster than ever, like it was going to fly out of my chest.
		It was like looking at someone I had known forever.
		I had always thought I had the heart of a young man in me, and I told my parents I did, and I sort of fell in love with him.
		They didn't even know it was a man's heart.
		Neither did I. It was like he had been my lover for years before he gave me his heart.
		I started telling his mom and dad things about him they said they could have never imagined anyone knowing.
		When they played some of his music for me, I could even finish the phrases in his songs before I heard them.
		Can you imagine that?
		My name is Danielle.
		And his was Danny.
		Okay, Doc.
		It's a coincidence.
		It's a coincidence.
		All right?
		I'm sick of it.
		Then she starts to cry.
		Tate continues.
		I was always afraid to talk about being in love with my donor, even before he gave me his heart.
		I thought they would send me to a shrink for sure.
		I know you won't believe this.
		Well, maybe you would.
		But after I got my new heart, I picked up my brother's guitar one day and could actually play it a little.
		I never touched it and never could play it before.
		I could never do that.
		Not just drumming.
		I mean, I could actually play the guitar.
		I shocked my brother, and he never knew how I could do it.
		Is it Danny playing from inside me?
		My heart is playing it, not my brain.
		I know that.
		Now I'm writing songs that come from the heart.
		I call them songs from Danny and Danielle's heart.
		And she breaks into tears.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A direct interview.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		That was right off the tape.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I don't know how many more you want me to give you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll take as many as you can give me.
		That's incredible.
		I mean, yes, I'll take any you have.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I should finish the tape part because the recipient's father then.
		Remember, I tried to interview as many people as I could.
		The recipient's father of Danielle was a college chemistry professor.
		And here's what he said.
		I'm reading right off the tape, my manuscript.
		Until she got sick, Danielle was what you might call a real hell raiser.
		She had been a hyperactive all through school until she got really, really sick.
		But after her transplant, she became much quieter and calmer than she ever was before.
		She said she felt like she had fallen in love with her donor.
		She had lots of energy, but she was more reflective and introspective somehow.
		She wanted to get guitar lessons and begin writing songs.
		That was really not at all like her.
		She would have made fun of that.
		When we saw the pictures of her donor, I saw my daughter grab her chest with both hands, smile, and break into tears.
		It was like she was greeting someone she had known forever.
		I know this is all weird and stupid stuff, probably just a real strange string of remarkable coincidences, but it is pretty interesting stuff, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He asked.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I guess that's mild.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good enough, yes.
		You know, then that brings up this question.
		Somebody asked it on the community.
		I've got a computer next to me, and they pepper me with questions.
		That's a lovely story, of course.
		But not all donors are nice people.
		Sometimes donors are really nasty people who get hit by cars or shot because they were involved in something awful or who knows why people.
		And so have you run into any cases where the effects of the transference of whatever it is, the consciousness that's transferred is not welcome because the person who made the donation wasn't a good person?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes, and it's interesting before I answer your question completely, this controversy really came up because they were in some states contemplating that prisoners who had committed pretty bad crimes, if they would donate an organ, not the heart of course, but an organ, could buy time off their sentence or avoid the death sentence.
		Then the question became, would you want the kidney of a mass murderer, for example?
		Well, when you talk to trans people who are dying, they'll say, give me a kidney.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		But then you ask me, well, have there been cases like this?
		I've only had one, and we could speculate together as to why.
		Maybe something at death happens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, just before you explain that, let's ask you the question.
		You're on deathbed.
		Your heart's failing.
		And the only heart available is that of a mass murderer who was just shanked in prison.
		Knowing what you know, what would you do?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I'd take it in the New York Minute.
		And the reason for that is that we must understand that this heart is joining a system, a full system of cells, of 75 trillion other cells.
		The memory of your other heart is still there.
		So the question is not that you're going to transform yourself completely into a murderer or a mass murderer.
		But I don't want to back off your question, Art, because there are people, for example, who tell me, I wouldn't even want to wear the watch that Charlie Manson wore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		So this raises, the interesting thing to me as a scientist is that it raises those questions.
		I am no guru.
		I don't have the answers.
		I only know who someone who was dying that I would have given anything.
		And I know that if I had not had my transplant, I would have died.
		And those are things that your listeners would have to look at, each in their own way.
		I did have one case where the wife said, since my husband got that heart, he has been the most, he used to be the most passive, kind man, and now he just is the most aggressive, swearing, cussing, angry man I've ever seen.
		And it turned out he had the heart of somebody who had been a prisoner.
		So, however, over time, Over time again, things changed.
		Things changed.
		And that's why, even raising this issue on your show, to be open enough to at least discuss it so that somebody can talk to their doctor and not be sent to the psychiatrist because they're delusional and say, let's at least learn from this.
		That's all I'm asking.
		You know, there was an old statement you might remember by William James that said, it is enough to prove that all crows aren't black if you can prove just one is white.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		All right.
		Here's another, really good question.
		Does a blood transfusion confuse the heart, cause it to adapt to the donor's needs and not the recipients?
		Or does blood itself, which of course courses through the heart quite frequently, also, in other words, when you get a transfusion, what are the possibilities?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		But you had asked me earlier, and I should have answered your question.
		All organs seem to carry with them these cellular memories.
		Even eye-type transplants, certainly kidneys.
		We see a lot of that with kidneys, especially manifested as changing in food preferences to match the person who had donated the kidney.
		But to answer the question about blood, blood is just, of course, just billions of cells coursing through there.
		But the answer is how we began your show tonight.
		That heart is an immensely powerful organ, as we've talked about earlier.
		And it is pulsating with immense energy.
		But I got a call from Sweden the other day saying to me, and maybe this addresses your caller's question, he said, Dr. Pearcell, I read your book, but you're wrong.
		You said the heart is not only a pump, it's not a pump at all.
		I said, no, wait a minute, what you talking about?
		And he said, the pump is not strong enough to do what you're describing, two and a half times around the earth.
		So what we think is that the blood has, these cells in the blood have memories of their own, and they're coming to the heart and swinging through it like you would.
		The heart acts more like a swing, like a child on a swing, and is shoved through by the blood.
		So the recaller's question is that certainly blood donations then certainly also carry these memories.
		The question is, to what degree?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And most people, I assume, that if they had some new little thought or concern, would never in a million years necessarily think it came as a result of, say, a transfusion.
		It would just be a new thought or a new remembrance that was perhaps somewhat vague or even specific.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		would be sort of just perhaps disregarded sense it's very it could just happen in Remember I said that heart energy is going beyond the skin?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Hearts connect.
		You and your wife can try this after the show.
		You can stand facing each other.
		We've done this with our patients for two years.
		Join right to left hand.
		Your hand's a little sweaty.
		You know when they put an EKG on, so they put a little moisture there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Right to left hand.
		You put the extra hand you have left over on your heart.
		And you stand there looking at each other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you feel the energy.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And you'll feel the hearts fall into sync.
		They will start to come into sync.
		When I was dying of cancer, I remember feeling my wife's heartbeat in mine and kept it going.
		I've done this with audiences where we will play Hawaiian hula, which is at about 72 bits per minute, and play a very beautiful Hawaiian piece of music and have these real cynical executives stand up with their spouses and hold right hand to left and close their eyes, feel the music.
		You will feel that energy exchange.
		You know, you've got powerful scientists such as Dr. John at Princeton University's Engineering Anomalies Laboratory talking about such things as love energy, L energy, this fifth type of energy.
		Maybe it's energy.
		Maybe it's electricity.
		Maybe it's non-locality.
		We have to start asking, but if your listeners will try this with someone they're close to, they will have a profound sense of what it's like to connect with someone else's heart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So much we have to learn.
		uh...
		so much we don't know and uh...
		i i just think you know i have a lot of people are going to eat You know, I can see that in some of what I'm reading here.
		Some react angrily.
		They don't want to believe this.
		And I guess I do understand why they don't want to believe it.
		It just too shocking to everything they've believed all their lives.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Because the brain is telling them that.
		I'm not being facetious when I say the brain is concerned with self.
		It thinks, I'm going to protect me.
		This can't be true.
		This is impossible.
		How could this happen?
		I know you've had Dr. Larry Dossi on your show, and he wrote a brilliant article called The Right Man Syndrome.
		He talked about the right men who constantly extend the research goalposts, who won't open their mind and hearts to such things as non-locality.
		For heaven's sakes, Bell's theorem that says that two things once attached are attached forever across time and space, which is quantum physics fact, blows some people's minds.
		That's a very hard concept to accept.
		Yet we know that that's good quantum physics.
		So even Einstein couldn't accept quantum physics.
		So we have to start really thinking differently.
		It's been the purpose of your show for years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then what about some cutting-edge research that's going on now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The kind of stuff where they're going to either grow hearts that will work in humans or grow human organs like hearts in pigs.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		One of my patients the other day said, if I get a pig valve, am I going to oink?
		No, you're not.
		Because you're not going to do that.
		Because as I said, the effect typically is subtle.
		As we began this show, I said, I regret that I share most of these very dramatic stories because I suspect that these are being reported by the superstars, just like you know there are some psychic superstars who are able to do some profound things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		But all of us have that ability.
		All of us have that ability.
		There's no doubt in the data anymore that psych experiences are real.
		Any scientist who denies that is not reading the journals.
		But the effect is subtle.
		Same with the heart.
		So those people who may call into you and say, this is stupid and this can't be and this is new age gobbledygook and this is witchcraft, they're Reacting the same way as when Einstein may suggest that mass and energy are the same thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, the witches knew this a long time ago.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Well, hasn't every culture?
		Yeah, the Apaches would kill the buffalo and eat the heart to get its energy.
		Every indigenous medicine, what's the fourth chakra?
		The heart.
		What does Ayurvedic medicine, Chinese medicine do?
		It takes the pulses and diagnoses by pulse.
		It's our modern mechanical medicine that is focused primarily on the brain running the body in a lethal alliance, and the heart is simply a pump sending blood.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So would you say that those who did that, who ate the heart for the energy, well, they could have been right?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		It's hard to say because I wonder if it's not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's hard to say no.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's hard to say no on this, but I doubt that it's going to be a digestive problem.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		But if we're really talking, as you and I were speculating before, all connections are there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you know, Doctor, there have been mass serial killers who, believe it or not, essentially believed the same thing, some pretty awful cases.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, they actually came up with the same explanation that they could assume that person's power by some cannibalistic act.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Remember again from all of this, every story I've told you so far, even though the effects are profound, listen to the emotion behind this.
		It's almost always a loving emotion and a subtle effect.
		Even that last story I read to you from the tape, this was not some.
		They described it with such caring and sensitivity.
		If there's any common theme in every journal article we published about these cases is there's a gentleness and caring motive for this behind both sides of this.
		That's a very important lesson.
		Maybe, just maybe, that's teaching us that this consciousness we're talking about is a pretty loving kind of consciousness if we tune into it.
		Maybe it's the brain that has such a bad attitude.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's the donor to think about for a second.
		I mean, if we're talking, we tend to, of course, talk about the recipient because the recipient is alive and we can get stories from the recipient.
		But if you're considering being a donor, for example, don't you have to consider the possibility that some of your consciousness, since we don't know so much about all of this right now, that some of your consciousness may live and one thought pattern might be that you don't want that to occur.
		I mean, as you consider whether or not you want to be a donor, and I know I'm talking heresy here because you all need donors, but that would be something you would think about, that perhaps you would live on in some way that you probably ought not to in God's world.
		I don't know.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		And you know what?
		Even before we started this research, patients who were considering donation would raise those questions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		So we're saying that's why we want to study this.
		But our answer to this is, please understand what we're saying.
		We're talking about transplant, but we're also saying that the heart is a miraculous organ.
		We are already exchanging our consciousness with one another all the time, that heart consciousness.
		You can't tell me, Art, that even over the phone, 1,000 miles away, when you're talking to a guest, that you don't have some kind of sense of the energy, if I can use that word.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, I do.
		I do.
		I'll hold it right there.
		We'll be right back.
		Dr. Paul Pirzall is my guest.
		Oh, this is remarkable.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Good morning.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 20th, 2002.
		But he left me much too soon, his lady birth.
		He left his...
		Day turned black, sky ripped apart Wait for years, they're down in my heart Cracks and
		leaves, the floorboards could die Had to go down and almost could not All I got to do is to love you All I got to be is a B.I.B.
		All it's got to take yourself through All it's to make it blow away, blow away, blow away All I got to do is to, to love you All I got to be is a B.I.B.
		All it's got to take is something for It's make it blow away, blow away, blow away All it's got to be is a B.I.B.
		The sky cleared up, day turned to fly All it's more time than a head could fly All it's got to be is a B.I.B.
		All it's got to be is a B.I.B.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 20th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've probably never heard anything like this, which is a good thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell and Dr. Paul Pearsall will be right back.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell and Dr. Paul Pearsall will be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, Dr. Paul Pearsall, Doctor, I'm getting a lot of questions on the computer screen that sort of follow where we were going with the discussion of consciousness, which for many people will automatically flow into the word soul.
		And so a lot of people are asking questions like, what, if by using another person's organ, the soul of that other person essentially remains until the death of the recipient has ever been discussed?
		It's touchy ground, I know.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		It really is.
		And some of the flack we get are sometimes from very religious people who say you're tampering with the soul.
		As researchers, though, we're saying, look, certainly I'm not going to be so arrogant as to say I understand what the soul is, but most researchers understand from the data that life is certainly a sacred process.
		And whatever the soul is, most of us had better start to broaden our idea of it because it is not just a limited, selfish thing.
		All of us are connected.
		I know that phrase has been thrown around so loosely, but it is profoundly so.
		And I found a case when we were on break that might address that question you just raised.
		If I can just tell you this right off the tape again, again, documented cases.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let her rip.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Have your listeners listen carefully for the nature of what happens in this transplantation.
		Because this is a subtle thing.
		You've got to listen carefully.
		This is a 41-year-old male heart transplant patient.
		He received the heart of a 19-year-old girl who was killed when her car was just struck by a train.
		Terrible event.
		Here's what he said.
		I felt it when I woke up.
		You know how it feels different after a thunderstorm or heavy rain.
		You know that feeling in the air?
		That's kind of how it felt.
		It was like a storm had happened inside me or like I had been struck by something like lightning really hard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The smell of ozone, the freshness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And can you hear the energy he felt from that accident?
		You hear the transplantation seems to be of the event.
		There was a new energy in me, he said.
		I felt like a 19-year-old again.
		Got the age right, by the way, by coincidence.
		I'm sure I got a strong young man's heart, got a woman's, because sometimes I can feel like a roar or a surging power coming right at me.
		Remember the train?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I think he was probably a truck driver or something.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		He was probably hit by a big semi that just smashed him to smithereens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Do you hear the subtleness there?
		He got a lot wrong, but he got the energy of that train smash.
		His wife says, he's like a kid again.
		He used to struggle to breathe and had no stem at all.
		Of course, he was very sick.
		The transplant changed that.
		Well, you'd expect it.
		He keeps talking about power and energy all the time, though.
		He says he has had several dreams that he's driving a huge truck and hit head-on by it.
		That's all he can talk about.
		So do you hear how that's being transformed?
		That's a subtle kind of process, but that energy of that accident seemed to have been still stored in that heart.
		And it came through.
		I've got a funny one for you if you want one, because most of these are so strong.
		This one made all of the scientists laugh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go right ahead.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		This is a 35-year-old female heart transplant recipient.
		Her donor, unknown to her, was a 25-year-old prostitute who was killed in a stabbing.
		Here's what she said.
		I never really was all that interested in sex.
		I never really thought much about it.
		Don't get me wrong, my husband and I had a great sex life, but it wasn't a very big deal.
		Now, I tire my husband out.
		I want sex every night.
		And I masturbate two or three times a day sometimes.
		I used to hate X-rated videos, but now I love them.
		I feel like the slut sometimes, and I do strip teases for my husband when I'm in the mood.
		I would never have done that before.
		I'm almost ashamed to tell you.
		When I told my psychiatrist about this, he said it was a reaction to my drugs, and I needed help.
		Then I found out that my donor was a young college girl who used to work as a topless dancing surge.
		She was also a prostitute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would imagine the husband, if he heard advice like that, pull her out of therapy so fast.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm ahead of you, Ark, because here's what the husband said.
		Now that I'm, not that I'm complaining, mind you, but what I have now is a sex kitten.
		Not that we do it more, but she wants to talk about it, do it, watch tapes.
		We have sex, but it's different.
		It's no worse.
		It's just a lot different.
		He goes on and on.
		I don't want to get us off the air here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, no.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		That's all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I get the idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that's incredible.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		It's just an incredible story.
		So the reason for saying the funny one and the more serious one here is when they say about, well, what's the soul?
		I don't know.
		But I'm telling you, we are all connected.
		And I know speaking now is a Hawaiian, and I haven't done that much tonight.
		When I wrote Miracle in the Maui, I talked about Maui, Hawaiian concept.
		Most Westerners think of the soul as inside them.
		Hawaiians and indigenous people think of the soul as among us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Among us.
		A shared among us.
		Again, the non-locality aspect.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Here we go again, Art.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I hate to keep coming back to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, that's fine, because that's what everything's coming back to.
		I want to run something by you.
		It's kind of away from what we're discussing right now in a way, but yes and no.
		I have talked personally to a lot of people who have relatives who have not received a new heart, but they have gone through bypass surgery.
		And there are millions of stories out there, Doctor, about people's personalities becoming modified after that kind of surgery.
		They come out completely different people, according to relatives.
		And I wonder if you've heard any of that.
		And I don't know that it has one thing to do with what we're talking about right now, but it's a curious thing.
		I've heard some.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I don't either, Art, but the answer is an unequivocal yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And it came up when we were doing the research, and then these doctors and nurses would sit us down and say, you know, you're talking about these transplants, but with bypass, we're seeing these changes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Now, from a scientific point of view, of course, this is a frightening process.
		These people were in pain and sick, and maybe they're feeling better, so you'd expect certain changes in them.
		They're on medications.
		They've had anesthesia.
		I can give you 20 reasons for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know, but once the blood supply is essentially restored, then you would expect to see the person perhaps go back to what they were prior to when they got sick.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		But the heart has been tampered with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they're seeing other manifest changes, big changes.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Well, if we're going to get really far out here, what is the name of the process of that surgery?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Bypassing the heart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Think of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what it is.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		We bypassed it.
		We lost it for a while.
		One of the things I learned, how stupid a researcher can be, is our patients with Donors, recipients, excuse me, would say to me, please, when they know I'm open to this kind of talk, not to the other doctors, I'm always the weird one they'll tell this to.
		Please, doctor, let me say a very long goodbye to my heart and thank it for what it did.
		We have to understand that heart will beat sometimes for minutes and longer outside the body.
		I've held the heart in my hand.
		I have felt that energy.
		You ask any transplant surgeon.
		I have sat the diseased heart next to the healthy heart that's going to go in the body.
		And I have seen them, not touching now, I've seen them fall into sync in the same beat as if they are communicating with one another.
		Every cardiovascular surgeon will tell you they have witnessed the same thing if they're honest.
		If they're honest about it.
		Some don't want to even deal with this.
		As you said earlier, it's a lot easier to get angry and defensive and just say, oh, the body is just a mechanical thing and only the brain is sacred.
		But what, did you know that weeks before the brain fully forms, the heart beats before the brain begins to develop?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard that, yes.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		It's absolute fact.
		And it beats, you want to talk about strange, from a kind of a vortex of energy, here we go, that word again, forms, the heart, that area begins to throb, forms into a heart, and then the brain forms.
		From that point forward, the heart is still talking to the brain by the atriomaturatic factor, atrial peptide, by many, many types of neurochemicals and transmitters.
		Back in 1987, they declared neurocardiology, that the heart has a brain of its own.
		It can think outside the body and in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how could a surgeon not notice, as you pointed out, a diseased heart and a healthy heart side by side just as the switch is being made, falling into sync?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or is that something that just mentally lock it out?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know, it's mechanical.
		It's a coincidence.
		It might happen, but everybody knows if you put a heart cell, no other cell in the body but the heart, in a Petri dish, in a medium, and then you take a cell from someone else's heart and put that cell in there, they will fall into sync.
		You've heard of the Hundred Monkey phenomenon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		It sounds so redundant, but it looks like this kind of non-locality, this energy connection, hearts connecting with one another, is not just metaphor.
		So when we say he wears his heart on his sleeve, my heart goes out to you, you've hurt my heart, you broke my heart, it's the heart crying out for attention.
		Very few hearts are murderers.
		Brains are.
		Brains are very selfish, territorial.
		That's what they're designed to do.
		And how many times have you heard people say, she or he has a good heart?
		That speaks to that concept of the soul, the spirit.
		This research is just beginning, but it may offer some ways to understand all of these things, soul, spirit.
		What about the power of prayer?
		When these hearts go out to each other, is there something involved in that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a good thing it's 2002, because not that many years ago, you'd have been crucified, guaranteed, burned at the stake, whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Expressing all of these views.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Well, absolutely.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And so, don't forget, the witches that were burned at the stake were, of course, mostly women who had the audacity to question the medical model of those days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		That's why they were burned.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		This was purely an economical, political burning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's true.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		The same stuff has happened to Ian Stevenson, John Mack.
		I'll bet you could name me 20 researchers who have tried to get people.
		I am not on your show to say, Paul Piercell's got it right.
		Don't study this anymore.
		We're begging them, read this.
		Look at the data.
		I was so upset the other day at a meeting, somebody said, there's no research on this.
		I said, did you look in the lease in the back of my book if you don't want to read journals?
		It's full of bibliography.
		Look at that.
		Go to the library.
		I don't care if you buy the book.
		Check me out.
		You have every right to ask me, how do you know?
		Who says so?
		Not just because Paul Pearsall says so.
		Talk to cardiovascular surgeons.
		Taught to transplant surgeons.
		See what they say about this.
		Don't just yield to those who are, as you said, so angry because this threatens their system of belief.
		Open their hearts.
		Open your heart.
		I told my medical students, you don't have to have a hole in your head to have an open mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, a heart transplant surgeon surely has a very close connection to the recipient.
		And these questions really, really must come up after a transplant.
		After somebody finally, you know, they're failing and boy, all of a sudden now they've got a new heart.
		I mean, these questions come up, and I wonder how the average transplant surgeon handles it.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Well, most of those that I've talked to, I mentioned the Mitzaz and others, have been sensitive to it and doing it in the closet because they've been afraid to speak of this.
		Patients have talked about it and talked about it for as long as this process has been going on.
		But some of the pioneers in this wanted to be sure it was just seen as a pump for every question Art Bell has asked me tonight.
		The politics of it, the fear of it, are you putting somebody's new soul in there?
		Are you tampering with immortality?
		It raises all of those questions, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then here's one for you.
		We live in an interesting time.
		Now, the first artificial hearts were gigantic things.
		The person was attached to them.
		Now, they're smaller things.
		Soon, I guess, we'll have a heart that is small enough to be completely contained within the chest, and maybe even the power supply for it.
		The whole thing in the chest, smaller and smaller, like everything else.
		And so eventually we will have this totally artificial heart, I think.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Most likely sometime.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I wonder, considering all you've said tonight, what the implications of that might be.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		It might surprise you, but maybe not all that significant for this reason.
		Don't forget, that heart has had residence in that body for a long time.
		Even though we're talking about the impact of a donor's heart, your heart's, it's still your heart's neighborhood.
		Your heart has pumped its energy, its form of energy, through that body for a long time already.
		So that the idea of a mechanical heart, and then we really get into something way far out.
		I'm sure you've done some shows on the work at the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Laboratory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, you bet I have.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Where they have done, boy, you want to talk about a program that's also had to struggle against, oh, what are you guys doing?
		You know that in a very subtle way that people are able to alter solid objects, aren't they?
		They're able to make changes on computer screens.
		They're able to move pendulums by intent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I know that.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Millions, and I'm not exaggerating, millions of replications of data are doing that.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		So, isn't it logical that even a solid kind of mechanical object might be imbued with the energy or the non-local forces of the body that's already?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course it's possible.
		And so I guess that answers my question.
		Yes, of course it's possible.
		All right, I've so dominated your time here.
		I do want to get to take a few calls here after the bottom of the hour.
		But any other stories you have, like the ones you've been telling?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and as I said, I want to be sure that the ones we're telling now, because we told some others before, are the ones that I've given.
		But I think one of the funniest ones that I did not collect was one of my students who had visited the Heart Transplant Olympics.
		There's enough people who've had transplants.
		I should call it a transplant Olympics.
		It wasn't just heart transplant.
		In Australia.
		So I can't totally stand behind this because it was reported to me by one of my research students who went there.
		He met, now we'll really see if your listeners are listening.
		He met a man who had raced against another man in the marathon there, the man to whom he had donated his heart.
		Now I'm hoping people are awake enough to say, wait a minute, what'd you just say?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		The man who had donated his heart had a healthy heart, but he had cystic fibrosis, a lung problem.
		He had a heart-lung transplant.
		So they donated his healthy heart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		It's called a domino transplant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they were, they were, oh my gosh.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		You follow my point?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I certainly do.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Now here it comes.
		This man who had donated his heart to this other man raced against the man to whom he had donated his heart in the marathon.
		My student interviews them afterwards.
		Dream interview.
		I wish I could have been there because it was not good research, not carefully done.
		And the donor had lost in the marathon to his recipient.
		And he told my student, you know why I lost?
		My heart wasn't in it.
		Broke up and laughed.
		But I don't know where we are in time, but that's not the full story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's not the whole story?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		No, the real story is then my student sits down with his wife across the table from the donor and his wife and the recipient and his wife.
		And they get an interview.
		Now, here's a great interview.
		I wish I could have been there.
		And this was published in the Australian News.
		So they're sitting there and as they're talking, the recipient is married to a very quiet Japanese lady.
		Very quiet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I tell you what, that's a great place to hang people up and make them wait through the break.
		There's quite a story on radio.
		So quite a story coming up.
		Stay Right Where You Are from the High Desert.
		I'm Art Bell.
		And this is Coast to Coast AM.
		Dr. Paul Piershall, Stay Right Where You Are.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 20th, 2002.
		I saw the look in your eyes, looking into the mass, seeing what you want to see.
		Darling, don't say a word.
		Cause I've already heard.
		But your body's made you mad.
		I've got a fact.
		I got a snow groove on my mind I want a man who's no hand.
		I want a love with a feeling touch.
		I want somebody who is feeling tired.
		I want a love with a feeling.
		I want somebody who will understand.
		I am a lineman for the county.
		And I drive the main road.
		Searching in the sun for another home alone.
		I hear you singing in the wire.
		I can hear you through the wine.
		And the Wichita line man.
		Is still on the line.
		I know I need a small vacation.
		But it don't look like rain.
		And if it snows that stretch down south.
		Won't ever stand the strain.
		I need you more than you And I love you more than is still on the line You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 20th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From a little bitty high desert town called Prump, Nevada.
		I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
		Don't touch that dime.
		Not yet.
unidentified		Don't touch that dime.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, Doctor, we're back at it, so finish your story.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		The story was interesting.
		The two couples were sitting across from each other, and my research student is Sitting there and they're telling stories, and he's taking notes.
		And suddenly, this very quiet Japanese wife named Kim, sitting next to the recipient, yells and interrupts the whole thing and says to the woman sitting next to the donor, Is your name Susan?
		And she said, My God, how did you know?
		And she said, Because my name is Kim, and my husband's yelling out your name when he's making love to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Now, I can't verify it, but that story has run around our clinic since that ever happened.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I don't want any of your listeners to use as an excuse tonight, however.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Listen, a million people are going to want to contact you.
		Is there any way to contact you?
		Do you have any email address you dare give out or any other contact injury?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		We're swamped, and I want to protect the company.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		But the best way to do is just get a hold of some of the books, and I think some contacts might be done that way through the publisher.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		And, of course, we've got a link to all the books on the website right now.
		I would like to bring a couple of few callers on here if I can.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've dominated your time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Paul Fearshall.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		You're on the air.
		Where are you?
unidentified		Yeah, well, I'm in Ohio right now.
		I've worked in the operating rooms for about eight years.
		And when I was up in Eastern Maine Medical Center, up in Maine, you know, I've told this story a few times.
		No one really believes it.
		I've done about 20 procurements.
		And, Doc, you would understand some of this.
		When I was in anesthesia tech, basically what I did, you know, assist the doc, make the slush, put the heart and all that in.
		So one night we were using a room that we don't normally use.
		And, you know, once you get the heart out, you know, anesthesia is done.
		You know, they shut the machine down and we leave.
		And then they get the liver and the kidneys and all that.
		Well, we were done about 2-3 in the morning, shut the room down, and shut the OR down, locked it up, and we go into the lounge and we're eating our lunch.
		Well, about 15 minutes later, this is a donor story.
		It's a little different than what you've been talking about tonight.
		That's right.
		One of the doctors that I'm calling comes into the lounge and starts yelling at me.
		I said, what's going on?
		You know, the nurse, the circulator, is there, the surgical tech.
		And he starts yelling.
		He goes, when I talk to you, I want you to answer me.
		Don't just walk away.
		Well, I said, what are you talking about, Doc?
		I said, I've been in here for 20 minutes eating lunch.
		He goes, well, I just went into the room to get my headlamp, and you were in there, and you walked out the back door.
		And I asked you a question, and you just kind of waved and said, like, bye to me, and just walked out into the scrub area.
		And he goes, next time you do that, he goes, I'll write you up.
		And then the nurse goes, doctor, you know, there's no one in this OR but us three people.
		He goes, she goes, you just must be imagining it.
		She goes, no one's in that room.
		That was the room that we did the procurement in.
		And the doctor goes, look, there's a little guy.
		He's just his size.
		I ask him a question.
		He walks away from me.
		Well, the man that we did the procurement on was about my size and height and coloring and all that.
		And his eyes just kind of looked at us like, you know, he didn't want to fight us.
		He goes, you've got to be kidding.
		I said, no, Doc.
		I said, there's no one in there but us.
		I'm the only man here.
		I've been here for 20 minutes.
		He just kind of looked at me.
		I said, we just did a procurement in there an hour ago.
		And you've never seen a doctor turn pale white in all your life.
		He just looked at us and walked away.
		But like you said, we told this story.
		He would never acknowledge it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I appreciate the call.
		Thank you.
		That's way out there, but not particularly way out for this program.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what?
		He raises way out, another issue that some of the people asking me about my research asked me, and they said, you talk about the recipient's connection to the donor.
		Now, this is going to really stretch your imagination.
		Donor is gone, but as your caller just said, what about the donor's connection to the recipient?
		If we are really embracing non-locality in its fullest extent, then isn't it possible that that donor is still connecting with that recipient?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if we're embracing it, then it's almost a sure bet.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and so that really raises complicated issues here and may deal with what you said you were encountering when you're talking about people having, I know when Dr. Schwartz is on and talks about people contacting those who've passed over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Maybe, just maybe, this is playing some role in that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Paul Pearsall.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		Mr. Bell, thank you for taking my call.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		You're very welcome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in Lakewood, Ohio, which is by Cleveland.
		Okay.
		I only have two questions for Dr. Pearsall.
		I have no stories.
		I would like to know if, are the synchronized pulsing of the cells from two different people also applicable to people in animal blood, like perhaps Mrs. Aukins, the chicken heart?
		Are you familiar with Mrs. Aukins?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not, no.
unidentified		Oh, she's been around for nearly a century.
		It is a chicken heart that has been alive for nearly a century.
		That's not in the people heart field, of course, so perhaps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And my other question is even the blood cells no it's a very good That's an interesting question, and I have to answer that.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		We've certainly not done research on that.
unidentified		Well, people and animals together, perhaps, would the blood still beat in synchrony?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I don't know if this is addressing your question, but one thing we have found is that this is apocryphal, but I had a blind patient who had terrible heart cardiac arrhythmias.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And the only time those arrhythmias would steady out was when he had his hand on the heart of his dog.
unidentified		I've heard of this.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Do you follow what I mean?
unidentified		Oh, yes, that's what I mean.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Not only that, we've had several children, I'm sure you know of this, who have had seizures, and they have dogs that sense the seizure far before it happens and are able to go and throw the child down and hold the child down so they don't get hurt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		So I think that in some way addresses what you're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it does.
unidentified		It does.
unidentified		I have another question, if I may.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You may.
unidentified		Cloning has been a reality for decades, also nearly a century, since almost the turn of the century, actually.
		And transplants are fine for what they do, but when can we start looking forward to regeneration of our own organs the way our liver already regenerates itself?
		I want to be able to regenerate everything in my body.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Would that be nice if we could do that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But we are getting close, as you pointed out.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely, we are getting close to the business.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cloning of individual organs.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And I really don't, that's not outside of my area of expertise.
		I don't know.
		But it does raise several other issues, doesn't it, in terms of what we're talking about tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And they're beyond my competence right now.
		But I think your question is a very important and interesting one that has to also be addressed when we do such things as chlorine.
		Because what does this mean in terms of the energy, the memories, the electromagnetic aspects, and all that stuff we've talked about for these three hours?
		Very important issue to research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Dr. Piercell.
unidentified		Hi.
		Thanks.
		This is Susan in the Detroit area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Susan in Detroit.
		You're going to have to kind of yell at us on your not too loud.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		CKLW.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Say Detroit.
unidentified		Hi there.
unidentified		I'm a WSU person, too.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I had my transplant in Detroit.
unidentified		Yeah, you know, I'm confused.
		Well, this is not the main question.
		Was it a bone marrow transplant or a heart transplant?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		A bone marrow transplant.
unidentified		Okay, I got it.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		The Charter Hospital.
unidentified		Oh, yes, of course.
		They have the first heart transplant machine there on display.
		You may remember.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I do, for sure.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		As I said earlier in the show, I spent a lot of time among everybody who was getting transplants of all kinds.
unidentified		Oh, wow.
		This is fabulous.
		Listen, I've heard a couple of comments and then one quick question.
		I've heard the lungs described as the pump, and the heart then is the valve.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Oh, go ahead.
unidentified		One engineers are presented.
		It was just a schematic drawing representing the heart, but not identified that way, and asked what it is.
		They say it's a valve.
		And it's interesting, think about that, whether you think the lungs might be the pump.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know if you heard earlier in the show.
unidentified		I did, about the blood swinging through.
unidentified		I said nothing about the lungs.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think that there's some good rationale for what you're saying because I'm not so sure either that our model of the heart is just the pump is accurate either.
unidentified		No, valve.
		Anyway, the other thing is, do you think that the Bach remedies out of England would be of any use to the people suffering from nightmares once they make their stories known and they're properly recorded as data and before their own system stabilizes, maybe they could be helped with those?
		And if that's not familiar, I can give you a couple of quick references.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I only know a little bit about it, but I think the answer would be yes to that.
unidentified		I think get the Philip Chancellor case book.
		He's the author of the case book.
		And then MacTeild Schaefer out of, I think, Switzerland has done a wonderful book which concentrates on using them for psychological purposes rather than any tie-in to the physical.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		That's a very good lead.
unidentified		Okay, last of all, there is a circle that comes back from the brain to the body in my mind, and that is that while the brain may be selfish, there is an unselfish, very universal aspect to that neocortex, which does not have any sight, any physical sight, but it does have a very wide reach.
unidentified		And that's the part of the brain which can make the circle back to the loving heart, I think.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I think you're right, and I hope I'm not embarrassing Art here, but I do believe on the website that Art's going to have somebody who wrote a book called Why God Won't Go Away.
unidentified		Oh, wonderful.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And he's a very careful researcher who has identified what you're talking about in terms of when we fully, really concentrate.
		You know, I always tell my patients that you know you're healthy if you can stop thinking without falling asleep.
		You know what I mean by that?
		And when you do that, the areas of the brain that make you selfish, separate you from other people, shut down and you feel at one with everything.
		And I'm sure Art School will be dealing with that when that man is on.
unidentified		There's one researcher in particular who runs that circuit for us.
		Okay, well, he didn't run it back to the heart.
		Yeah, I guess he did.
		Thank you.
		I'll let you go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, take care.
		Somebody in Todd, Nashville, Tennessee, asks an interesting question, and that is, do you notice any difference between the effect of heart recipients and the effect of multiple, I mean, sometimes it's hearts and lungs and multiple organs.
		We're doing some amazing things.
		Is the effect at all magnified or is there not enough research yet with multiple transplants?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Since I'm doing a lot of the research, there's not been enough of that kind, but the answer so far is a tentative yes, because the cases that we've had when there's been this heart-lung transplantation particularly, which is a lot of tissue going in and a lot of cells, yes, the effect does seem to be more found, more profound.
		But you're going to have cynics now say, well, that's because the surgery was more radical.
		They were sicker people.
		There's arguments for it.
		But the answer is absolutely, unequivocally, yes.
		I had a patient the other day who had a new liver.
		Just to show you, we're talking about the heart.
		And this was the most calm, gentle woman prior to her surgery.
		She had to leave the room when her husband watched football.
		It was too violent.
		She got the liver of a boxer.
		Now she's a pro-wrestling, boxing, violent sort of fan.
		So it shows you it's not just the heart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's amazing.
		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Pearsall.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Ohio?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cincinnati.
		I'm sorry I didn't get you up there quickly enough.
		All right, you're on the air.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Okay, I'm glad to talk to you, Art.
		And for the doctor, you were talking before about how the heart, you know, remembers things and that.
		And even in the Bible, it states how Jesus even said, let not your heart be troubled.
		And even it says, God knows what's in your heart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There were many such references.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		That's a very, very important point you're making because aside from Western science, indigenous science, scripture, religion has always talked about the importance of the role of the heart and a pure heart.
unidentified		Yeah, because it even says that Jesus said, first thou shalt love the Lord with your heart, then with your soul, then with your mind.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Well, it doesn't say think it over first, does it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies are on the air with Dr. Priso.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Aloha, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Aloha.
unidentified		Oh, Ali.
unidentified		Aloha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hawaii and back to Hawaii, huh?
unidentified		Yeah, volcano on the big island right across the water from the doctor.
		Oh, aloha.
		Aloha.
		Pahea oi.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Mai Kai.
unidentified		Oh, Ovake Kahi.
		Art, this is probably the best show, and I've listened for years, that you've ever done as far as really getting into the heart of things.
		No fun intended.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		And Doctor, and today's, I guess it was today's advertiser, this lady who is very kindly donated a kidney.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I saw it.
		I didn't get to read the article.
		I saw it.
unidentified		She's on Maui, and she just felt that she should feed back into the system, and she volunteered her kidney to anyone who could need one.
		And sure enough, they're the fellow on Maui who need one.
		They're compatible, and the surgery is going to be performed at St. Francis in the next couple of days.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that something?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And what a fortunate person, because with a loving lady like that, just think of the energy he's going to be getting.
unidentified		That fellow is going to have a charmed life.
		And also, I want to make a big plug.
		I'm an organ donor, and I wish everybody listening would consider it as the nicest thing you could do for everybody.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		As I said earlier, it's a sacred, it is true.
		Aloha.
		You know, Hawaiians speak up in the owl from the center of AI.
		And if there's anything that comes out of the show, if anybody's thinking about donation, do it.
unidentified		Well, aloha, Kakoa Pau.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Aloha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		All right.
		Well, Aloha.
		Doctor, what are the statistics?
		How many people before their demise agree to organ donation?
		Do you have any idea?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think it's going to, I don't know, it's a very low percent.
		The saddest thing I do, Art, is to go around on rounds and see these patients praying and praying for their life and for an organ and to see how, and they feel so badly when they see them wasted.
		The other more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was going to be my next question.
		Should that stop?
		Should that waste stop?
		Should there be, I don't know, you hate to say it because it's a personal thing and there ought not be laws about personal things like this.
		But, gosh, you're somebody about to die and, you know, wasted organs.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		That's how most of us feel, but you certainly can't legislate it.
		And, you know, it's certainly a loving, caring act.
		So it's got to come from, here we go with that pun again in the heart.
		It's got to be something you really want to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So education.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's just a matter of your show has done marvels tonight because as that man just said from Hawaii, if there's two or three listeners out there who say, that does it, I'm going to really think about this.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		You've done a miracle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they will.
		Guaranteed.
		Wildcard line, not a lot of time.
		You're on the air with Dr. Piercell.
		Hello.
unidentified		This is Mike from Amargotha Calling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I'm listening on KNYE broadcasting from Prump on 95.1 FM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the way to do it.
unidentified		When I was a teenager, I read the teachings of an Indian spiritual teacher who said that whenever people say I from all over the world, say I referring to themselves, they point to the same spot, two digits to the right of the center of the chest between the two breasts.
		So I've observed this for about 25 years now, and 100% of the time when people have said I without thinking, instinctively, they have always pointed to the same spot.
		And so I was just wondering if Dr. Piersall has ever observed to see, in terms of the seat of consciousness, where people with their finger actually point to automatically, even young children from all over the world when they say I. We tested even Art on that earlier in the show, and he did that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it worked.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		And it absolutely works.
		And it's funny, not only that, when we tell somebody a very funny joke and it's really loud, they'll touch there, point there.
		If it's a shock or a sad thing, you've seen that.
		Oh, my goodness.
		Oh, my gosh.
		They point to that.
		So it seems like almost our body is trying to remind us, hey, have a heart, will you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you are, caller.
unidentified		All righty.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		Now, Doctor, I know that you have a recent book on the subject of miracles, which we have, well, I guess in a way we've been talking about miracles tonight of a sort.
		But you've written a new book about miracles.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Miracle in Maui describes some of this and some of these things we're talking about with non-locality and how this stuff can really happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So from my perspective, tonight's show could just be like chapter one for the radio, and we've probably got enough material to do a whole nother show.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Are you kidding?
		You get a Hawaiian going.
		You could just leave Art.
		I'll just talk.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, that's been suggested, too.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		There's tons.
		I know that they didn't want to get into the miracle issue today, but the research on miracles, again, pushes the envelope far beyond this.
		Well, we should do an entire program on that is what I am a really important follow-up to this show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, and so there is contact information if people will go to your books, and your books are on my website, all linked on my website.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Those people who really need the research, too, if they go back to Miracle in Maui or The Hearts Code, they'll find the data to support what we've said tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then I think not only the average person, but perhaps some heart transplant surgeons and people in the medical field probably ought to do a little reading as well, eh?
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		I think the time has come to really consider this as a serious research issue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, thank you so very much for being here tonight.
		What an excellent guest you've been.
		You'll be back soon, trust me.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for all the support, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, Doctor.
dr paul pearsall ▲ ● ▼		Aloha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Aloha indeed.
		All right, well, folks, that's it for tonight.
		What an incredible interview that was.
		Definitely will go down as a classic.
		From the high desert, a little town called Peru.
		I'm Art Bell.

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