Arnold Leibovit reveals how George Powell’s 1960 Time Machine became a cult classic, sparking a 2002 remake with Spielberg’s triumphant direction and an $860K budget for the time machine alone. Dr. Paul Pearsall challenges brain-centric medicine, citing heart transplants where recipients claim donor memories—like a girl knowing her donor’s name or a man dreaming of their violent death—while hearts sync outside bodies, defying mechanical logic. His research, including RNA memory transfer in worms and heart-generated energy detectable 10 feet away, suggests consciousness may persist beyond the brain, hinting at non-local connections. Pearsall urges deeper study, warning against dismissing these phenomena as mere coincidence or delusion. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever in the world you may be in all 24 time zones, one way or the other, covered by this radio program.
I'm Art Bell, and the program is Coast to Coast AM.
And I would say, next to the question about life after death, which, by the way, we're going to be dealing with next hour, an amazing program coming up for you.
Remember the memory involved in heart transplants?
We've got a doctor coming on who will tell us all kinds of stories that we've never heard about that exact sort of thing, memory transfer with a transplant.
It should be remarkable this hour.
I would say the second largest agenda question for me in interest has been, as you know, time travel.
I'm a complete nut on time travel, and so this should be rather interesting.
Arnold Leibovitz, executive producer of Warner Brothers and DreamWorks The Time Machine, is here tonight.
He's an award-winning writer and director, as well as producer.
He wrote, directed, and produced the acclaimed film tribute, the fantasy film, that would be Film Worlds of George Powell, profiling the life of the Academy Award-winning sci-fi and fantasy film pioneer who directed the first screen telling of H.G. Wells' The Time Machine.
Following this, he had the idea of doing another Time Machine film and has nursed this along since the mid-1980s.
Oh my goodness.
That's like having a child a few times.
He is currently working on producing a remake of Pal's other classic, The Seven Faces of Dr. Lau.
That'll be interesting too, and is in development on another science fiction film which he plans to direct.
Hmm, they don't see what it is.
That must mean it's a secret.
In addition, he directed and produced the Puppetoon movie featuring such classic animation characters as Gumby, Pokey, and Tubby the Tuba.
The film premiered as the first American Film Institute Film Festival, has since screened at international film festivals in cities like London, England, in France, in Japan, all over the world, in other words.
He also served as the associate director-editor of Rascal Dazzle, featuring Hal Roach's Our Gang comedies, of course, which was narrated by Jerry Lewis, scored by Nelson Riddle, written, directed, and produced Penny Lane, a renowned short film on Toy Mechanical Banks.
And he's just, you know, done a lot.
But right now, what he's done is in the theaters, just got released.
Now, as you know, or maybe you don't, in order to see a movie, I've got to go about 120 miles.
Dare say we're a little remote here.
120 miles to see a movie.
Well, I haven't seen this one yet, and I'm dying to see it, absolutely dying to see it.
So in a moment, we will talk to the executive producer of this film, this incredible film.
We did have an unsolicited review from a caller last night.
Yeah, I was pitching this idea, which oddly enough was influenced by George himself.
It was a story about a subterranean land creature, sort of a throwback to the movie monsters of the 50s.
And I was very early.
I was actually developing that before Alien came out.
And I had this project, and one of my friends, Dan O'Bannon, actually, who wrote the Alien movie, and another friend, Jim Danforth, who did the animation for many of the George Powell movies, like Dr. Lau and Seven Faces, The Wonderful World of Brothers, Grimm, and many others, said, well, why don't you take the project to George Powell?
And I said, is George still alive?
You know?
I said, it was, you know, I couldn't believe it.
And then, so, you know, I made an appointment to see him in Beverly Hills, and he was very kind, and he let me show him the project.
And, you know, to me, as growing up as a kid, Powell was bigger than life.
The name George Powell, to me, I always imagined this big, booming-voice guy, you know, George Powell.
Like, yeah, I mean, he's like this little, you know, you know, he was just, hello, my name is George Powell, you know, and I was like, I was just blown away.
And, of course, sitting on his coffee table was a book, the films of George Powell, and sitting and right looking right on my front of me was the war machine from War of the Worlds.
He was a sweet, warm fellow and so unpretentious, and you just got to know him right away.
And very much the old school of filmmaking, you know, the old school of film people you read about, like Walt Disney and who he was a good friend of.
And then, of course, the sad part of it is he passed away a couple years later.
And I was just stricken terribly by it.
And I called up Mrs. Powell, and I said, I want to do this film about your husband's life, a tribute.
I said, he was one of the greatest influences in my life and probably in the film industry to people like Steven Spielberg and George Lucas and Gene Roddenberry and James Cameron and just about everybody.
George Powell was the guru.
And so she said, oh, fine, sure, sure.
She heard that from a lot of people.
Well, about two years later, I showed up on her doorstep with my camera crew and I said, making this film.
Well, and the influence that movies have on America.
unidentified
Right, exactly.
And one fellow, the publisher of Starlog magazine, Kari O'Quinn, wrote a beautiful, touching article after George Powell passed away calling his effect on films, filmmakers,
and audiences a ripple effect, where he made the analogy of how Powell influenced not just filmmakers, but writers, Ray Bradbury, Robert Bach, Robert Heinlein, Harlan Ellison, talked about how Powell influenced the industry, the science of the industry, like astronauts, Gene Roddenberry, and all of these different effects, just the ripple effect.
So he really was the father of a science fiction movie.
Well, certainly the three books would have been answered, and I think that was done fairly, very beautifully in the new movie, which we can talk about as we progress.
But what I want to do and still want to do is explore the Morlock dynasty.
The Eloy and the Morlock need further explanation, and the travails and travels of the time traveler need further exploration.
It's an infinite idea because if you really think about it, he only landed one place on the planet, and you've got a whole planet.
You know, in the original movie, of course, the dress shop was key.
You saw the fashions changing as time went by, and people with clothes would rip on and off.
And as time went by, it was so neat.
And you have used that in the new film, right?
unidentified
That's right.
And that was something, John Logan, who wrote the script, who was really a brilliant screenwriter.
He wrote Gladiator.
He did RKO 281, the HBO film.
He's actually going to be writing Steven Spielberg's autobiography film of Abraham Lincoln, which is going to be upcoming down the road.
But that was something a lot of people talked to him about.
They said, now you're going to write it, but don't forget that scene with the dresses.
So that was the interesting thing about Powell.
You remember he was a European filmmaker.
He came to America, and his sensibilities were very much of that European place.
Everything was very charming and filled with the types of things that we might not normally think of.
He picked up on because he was not an American.
He grew up there, and then when he came here, he learned to appreciate various things.
He didn't even speak English when he came here.
But getting back to the film, I think that the decision to make it came about through various circuitous means.
I was kind of trying to get it set up here and there and everywhere.
And then one day Turner was merged with Warner Brothers, and I was still folded into it.
Mrs. Powell let me kind of run with the property.
And Ron Howard became interested in directing the movie.
And for one reason or another, it didn't work out.
You know, the way the business is, you know, things don't always happen the way you expect them to do.
You get a right-hand turn, a left-hand turn.
But that elevated things quite a bit.
And then maybe, oh, I don't know, it may have been another few months later, I got a call from Warner Brothers, and they said Steven Spielberg wants to direct it.
You know, now, you know, I started out like with this idea, and then 15, 20 years later, you know, suddenly it's a grand production.
And that, to me, I think, is the triumph for me.
And I think it's also a word of encouragement to some of your listeners in a way that never to give real, never to give up.
Because if you believe in something and you think it's something that will have value, because I had a lot of disappointments, a lot of disappointments along the way.
The film business is not an easy business.
No.
And then it happened, and it happened in a way which was so wonderful.
And Stephen is such a fan of the original, and he tried so much to get that feeling of the Victorian and the machine.
Well, I can't give you the exact number, but real expensive.
But I would say the budget of George Powell's movie was around $860,000.
So, I mean, this machine had, I mean, this machine, you really feel like you could travel in time with this thing.
I mean, there's a picture of my, I think there's a picture on your website that was put up of me in the machines, the early one in 1960, and then the current one.
But there are a lot of interesting pictures of it, and it's a great design.
Everybody go to my website under a program tonight's guest info.
The first link is Arnold sitting in the time machine.
It is an excellent-looking time machine, and I must tell you that from those people that I've had on that talk about how a time machine might operate, many of the descriptions include a large spinning wheel and, of course, electromagnetics.
But the spinning part is integral to a lot of even modern ideas of what a time machine might be.
I don't know if you knew that.
unidentified
No, and I think a lot of that is attributed to Oliver, who designed it, and he was the fellow that did Independence Day.
He was the production designer.
and also the director simon wells who is the great-grandson of h_g_ wells who directed actually ended up directing the film and they toyed with a lot of
They spent a lot of time trying to be accurate in ways that George Powell really wasn't in terms of the mechanics of the machine, the time sphere that surrounds the machine when it travels.
You wouldn't rule out sort of a Star Trek version on TV, huh?
unidentified
Not at all.
I think, even, in fact, if a sequel is not possible for any reason, I think a series is the next most obvious place to go because look at what you can do.
my guess is arnold executive producer of water brothers and dream works the time machine and will be right back Arnold, I guess you know exactly how that man feels.
Listen, I really, you know Steven Spielberg then, first name basis, good friends, I take it.
unidentified
Well, I know him.
We're not, you know, we don't go to the ballpark together.
I just got a thrill out of seeing all the pieces put together.
I mean, you know, you go from paper and you see things on paper and you dream and you dream and you dream.
And then one day you're looking at a full-size time machine.
I mean, when they brought me into the production design office and they sat me down in a chair and they showed me an animatic of the time machine that they had done, because I didn't know what it looked like at that point.
There was really serious machine-ing that went into it.
I mean, it's amazing.
unidentified
Yeah, I think Matt Sweeney did the machining of it and made it.
And, I mean, as I said, it's a finely tuned scientific instrument.
What it looks like is almost like a telescope.
If you buy a telescope or a sextant, it has all the little markings and you look at it, everything is real all over it, and you have the design and so forth.
In fact, they went through a lot of trouble to research the kinds of accurate scientific equipment that was available during the turn of the century.
And they found an abacus that's an actual computer that existed back at the turn of the century.
It's just the most amazing thing.
And it's right up there on the machine.
They incorporated this old real science into that 1890s machine.
Folks, you've got to see the photograph again of Arnold sitting in the machine.
It's a really good one.
The second one is the one you want to click on, really.
It's really excellent.
Listen, through all this, and I have no idea what your views of time travel were prior to doing the movie, but I wonder if the movie provoked deep thought on the subject for you.
unidentified
I have a lot of thoughts.
And first I want to say I want to mention that I am a big science fiction fan, first of all.
I go back to Day the Earth Stood Still and Forbidden Planet and all these films.
And I have the honor of knowing Robert Wise, who directed Day the Earth Stood Still, and a lot of these people.
And in fact, I did a website I'm mentioning now called Sci-Fi Station, which basically came about because of my love of the subject.
It's sort of an avocation for me.
I make films, but I wanted to do this site that it has A lot of merchandise.
We sell Robbie the Robots and movies that are hard to find and posters and model kits.
But it's really the love of the subject that it all comes from.
And I do that and I feature that.
And the subject of time travel itself, there's a wonderful line in the script that I like to quote when I kind of talk about this.
And one of the main characters, the overlord in the film, really the head Morlock fellow, he says, we all have our time machines, don't we?
The ones that take us back are memories, and the ones that take us forward are dreams.
And I think there's a message to be said for the film, and that is to say the whole subject of time travel, I guess you could come away, and one moviegoer left the theater, and he came up to me after the film, because I was out doing some publicity, and he said, I got the message of the movie.
And he said, live for the present.
And I know that might sound disappointing, but when you think of the paradoxes of time travel, it could be insanely dangerous, first of all.
It could be.
But as science believes time travel to be real, and if you pick up a copy of Popular Science this month, there's a whole article.
It's on the front page of Popular Science.
It says, time travel, science says it isn't fiction, but when.
Yes, well, you couldn't very well have that, I suppose, without utter chaos.
But what they suggest, Arnold, is that if somebody went back and actually, for example, prevented 9-11, in one universe, 9-11 would still happen.
In another universe that had suddenly been created, and that's the way a universe is created, it is suggested by these physicists that just suddenly another universe in which 9-11 doesn't happen is created, and then everything goes forward from there.
So the two don't mix and the paradox doesn't occur.
That's the latest theory.
unidentified
Well, that's a pretty neat theory.
I mean, I'm happy with that.
I'm okay with that because, you know, I'm just a filmmaker.
And that notion makes perfect sense to me because then you could have a thousand different stories.
Now, if I could just get those people to archive their stories and send them to me, you know, maybe they would be fodder for some interesting film project.
There is a movie that I'm working on, which is the next project that I'm doing.
And you have to be careful because everyone has their own ideas.
And I have to, people send these scripts all the time and ideas.
I have, you know, it's, as I said, it's sort of a Gordian nut.
You know, you're, you know, it's half of this and half of the other.
But you want to talk to everybody and you want to be open, but then you have to be very careful because you get a lot of material that's similar from a lot of different people.
No, at that time, you have to remember, when Powell was making his movies, they were sort of stepchildren to Westerns and musicals and the kinds of things that Hollywood was doing.
Science fiction movies were considered for kids.
They were B-films.
So when Time Machine came out, it was a kids' film.
did you see it in the theater as a kid national i remember seeing it so many times arnold so many times that i don't even I really honestly can't.
I've seen it probably 10, 12 times.
unidentified
Well, see, for me, it was quite indelible.
I mean, I was nine years old.
I remember going to a theater.
See, I've dated myself.
But I saw the film, and it blew me away.
I said, this is amazing.
And I think it had that effect on mostly everyone.
It had a real amazing effect.
And I think it's part of the Powell legacy, really, of all the things that he did.
And now I want to do this remake of Seven Faces of Dr. Lowe, which is another classic of his, a film about a Chinaman who comes into a small town and changes the lives of all these people.
And it has fantasy and humor, but it also teaches important lessons about life.
Would you think he'd be available either for the next installment of the movie or for television series if something like that occurred?
You think he'd be interested?
unidentified
He might be, but you never know until you...
Yeah, he might be.
There might even be some contractual things, but I'm not aware of those specifically, but he might very well be.
I think that a lot of the performers in the picture, they're not big stars, and I think that was smart.
One of the things, again, going back to Powell, because this is something I always did, advised on the picture, I always advised them on all these things about Powell and the elements and all that input was given.
And one of the things that he did was he usually made his pictures without big names.
He made them into big names.
But he didn't use big names because when you do a film about a future, you don't want the audience to be thinking, oh, that's Mel Gibson.
By the way, Phaedra was a very ill-fated Greek goddess, so you might want to know that fact.
Coming up in a moment, we've talked about it a few times on this program, and we've heard a couple of stories about people who have had organ transplants and then suddenly somehow have begun to acquire the traits, even the memories of the donor.
They're incredible stories.
And that's where we're going tonight.
Dr. Paul Pierzall is a licensed clinical neuro, I'm going to have to get through the psychoneuroimmunologist, Clinical professor at the University of Hawaii, member of the board of the State of Hawaii Consortium for Integrative Health Care, and senior research advisor of the Human Energy Systems Lab at Arizona University.
He is the, or rather, on the clinical advisory board of the Cultural Healing Program at a Hill Center that I'd rather not try and pronounce on the island of Oahu.
He is president and CEO of Huala Hu, which I just slaughtered, a non-profit research institute studying the application of ancient Hawaiian principles to modern living, working, loving, and health.
He is a frequent consultant to national and international media, including CNN, Dateline 2020, and the BBC.
Or do I depend on the BBC for a lot of stuff I can't get here?
Dr. Pierzov graduated as Distinguished Scholar from the University of Michigan, did postgraduate training at the Harvard and Albert Einstein Schools of Medicine.
Wow.
Designed and served as chief of the award-winning psychiatric clinic at Sinai Hospital, was director of behavioral medicine at Beaumont Hospital, professor of clinical psychiatry and neurosciences at the Wayne State University School of Medicine, has authored over 300 professional journal articles and 14 best-selling books, all of which have been translated into several languages.
His current book, just released, is titled Miracle in Maui, a description of his own miracle cure from stage 4 cancer.
That's almost goodbye time, folks.
And the combination, the modern science and ancient Hawaiian principles underlying miracles.
in a moment dr paul your soul stay right there Okay, Dr. Pearsall, welcome to the program.
You are going to talk about something that is just absolutely, it just rivets me.
Because there just appears to be so much that we don't understand about ourselves.
And, you know, to the average person, doctor, it seems utterly impossible that any sort of memory or any sort of anything could transfer in one of our lower organs, our heart, our liver, our lungs, something like that.
It's just, you know, it's nice to have, but it's not the brain.
Or at least we didn't think that it was the brain or that there was any, could possibly be.
I mean, it's science fiction almost to imagine there could be transference of any kind of memory with the transference of just an organ.
Well, I know you have so many really excellent scientists on your show, and I don't think it really matters what I believe.
I think what really matters is what does the data show us?
And the data shows us if we really look at this, and you're quite right, Art, that so many people are so threatened by this, but I asked them to look at the journals.
And why are they so surprised when we use a word like cellular memory?
I know I was at a scientific meeting the other day, and somebody said, even that phrase sounds stupid to me.
And I said, well, let's just stop a moment here, first of all.
If you go back to high school and think of that one single cell paramecia, it has no brain at all, yet it remembers how to swim, finds food, it mates, it recognizes and invades predators.
It's got a memory of what we call in science a memory of function.
That is, it always remembers what to do.
So if one cell will do it, think of 75 trillion cells.
And it's one of the problems in me doing the research in this area is that wherever there's gold, there's counterfeiters.
And some of these weird stories and weird things start to dominate when the real science is strange enough and hard enough to accept.
Because in 1966 at UCLA, scientists were able to transfer memories from one organism to another by transferring the RNA.
What they did is typical kind of boring science, I guess, but they took 400 little tiny worms, divided them into two groups.
One they conditioned to respond to light and then moved toward food.
The other ones were left just stupid.
And they sacrificed the worms that they had trained and then transferred cells from those simple worms.
Now look how simple level we're talking about, to the stupid worms.
And the stupid worms automatically reacted to the light and pursued the food.
This data has accumulated and accumulated, and this evening we'll talk about certainly some of the dramatic stories.
And some have happened even within hours since your producers asked me to come on the show.
Really?
And I wrote these down because I said I've got to share these first with you guys because these stories come constantly, even when you apply our good scientific standard to dismiss these and be skeptical.
But I hope tonight, as your listeners tune into this topic, they will realize that skepticism is everything.
Doctor, how many surgeons who do transplant work do you think would laugh and walk away at the concept versus those who would, because of their own experience, let's put it that way, not laugh and not walk away?
When I published the book called The Heart's Cold with the first data, and then two or three journal articles after that, I thought, boy, am I going to catch flack.
Do you know the only group from whom I have not caught flack has been the heart transplant surgeons?
Really?
Take just one very well-known transplant surgeon, Nemitz Oz at Columbia.
A brilliant, careful scientist, also researching areas that are sometimes approached with great skepticism and cynicism.
And his work has shown that the electrical information patterns generated by the heart are detectable in our own brainwaves and, listen to this, other people's brainwaves.
Now, Gary told me one time that they were doing a study and they had all these little electrodes on somebody's head for an electroencephalogram.
And they're doing all the measuring.
But one electrode was left free by mistake.
And they couldn't understand the readings they were getting.
And it turned out that electrode was picking up the heart energy of the examiner.
You already laid a number of facts, in fact, worrisome ones to me.
I remember a shot movie about the space shuttle saying, you know, 5 million moving parts all built by the lowest bidder as they got ready to launch, you know, and you're telling me the heart is a lot more complex than that.
Just think of it, you know, the heart is capable of emitting 5,000 millivolts of electricity.
The brain, 140 millivolts.
And I think some people, maybe a lot less than what I've been dealing with over here.
But I can tell you this, the Voyager spacecraft circling around over there in Saturn sent back its energy with 10 millivolts.
So if you think that that heart is not something special, we should be listening to the ancient Hawaiians, to the ancient Egyptians, who used to mummify the brain of the heart and throw away the brain.
I actually think so, and that's an excellent research question.
You do think so?
I not only think so, again, I know so.
And how do we know that?
By some of the interviews we'll share later on in the show, by the data we've collected, because the heart is unique.
It's right in the center.
I just gave you a whole documentation from memory of the power of this organ.
It is immensely powerful.
And then we also talked already a little about cellular memory.
Now, you take those millions of cells.
We know the heart has 40,000 neurons in it.
Years ago, they formed a field called neurocardiology, endocardiology, knowing that the heart has hormones in it.
It has substances we used to think were only in the brain.
But we now find them in the heart.
A substance called atrial naturitic factor.
It's a factor we call a balance hormone.
It keeps the body in balance.
That's in the heart.
It looks to us in our research that the heart reacts to signals in our environment faster, and yes I said faster, than the brain.
So if we're going to put that heart in somebody else's chest, it is awfully naive to think that that powerful organ isn't really doing something more than we thought it did.
Well, but you know, if you prove that, doctor, then you raise ethical questions for hearts transplanturgeons that have never been raised before.
I mean, it's tough enough as it is right now.
And I wonder if you've been told that by some of them, because it's obvious to me.
If you prove what you're telling us tonight, and I have a feeling you will to this audience, then they've got ethical problems that go beyond the ones they've got already.
Well, you know, it's a good news for me as a scientist is that it's actually just the opposite.
We'll talk a little later.
I'm a transplant recipient, not of a heart, but a bone marrow transplant, because I almost died of cancer, as you described earlier.
And the good news here is because transplant is such a sacred process that when we interview these donor families and recipient families, as we'll discuss this evening, this is a source of relief, not fear or ethical dilemma, because are we to say that by taking that sacred gift, it's nothing but a piece of tissue?
It is not.
It is a sacred gift.
And the research we'll present tonight actually documents how important that is and how gracious a gift that is rather than alarming people away from it.
it's a continuation, and from a Hawaiian point, they have a word called lokahi.
We are all connected, and as you'll hear tonight, these transplant stories, in some ways, are, I'm sorry I published them, because some of them are so dramatic, and we'll tell some of them tonight that they cause what we call in Hawaii chicken skin.
That's why I so appreciative to have the time to share this because it's just not been.
Understand Art.
I published this book, Heart's Code, in 1998.
Only this year have they come from the BBC, from Germany, from Spain, from Russia to talk to me.
Because I think now when you publish enough data, even if there's stories, sometimes a lot of stories told with care and collected carefully become legitimate data worthy of listening to.
As somebody who does a nightly talk show, I'm a little disappointed in some ways in the American media because what I'm finding, and of course I deal with stories, you know, that are out on the edge of every field.
I'm finding that I'm getting more interesting current data from the BBC than I am from American major outlets of a similar size.
Well, I'm afraid we can talk, that's be a whole other show of the status of medicine in the United States, because it's really a very mechanical approach in medicine.
And, you know, even with all the modern medical marvels, we can only explain 46% of the variants.
That is to say, modern medicine only knows 46% of why a person gets cancer, why they get a heart attack.
I just lectured at a medical school the other day, and I pointed out, you do realize, don't you, that more than half the people who have a heart attack have none of the heart attack risk factors.
And the other thing that makes me, and I'm going to get some trouble tonight with some of my doctor colleagues, but who among us doesn't know that person who has violated every health rule and been a health reprobate their whole life and lived forever, practically?
And I thought, and they misdiagnosed my cancer miserably.
So I think what's happened in medicine, and certainly it offers many miracles and modern things to do, but it's tended to not to be a blended medicine that looks into the things that you and I will examine tonight.
Anyway, Dr. Paul Piersall is my guest, and we are going to be telling you some fascinating stories.
And by the end of the night, you'll believe something you did not believe before.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 20, 2002.
When I dig a dig a down about an hour ago Do a look around me with a little wind flow With a little girl in a Hollywood bungalow Are you a rockin'little lady in the city of life?
Or did you not alone think you're a city of life?
City of life
I'm wont to be abused Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Sweet dreams are made of this Who am I to disagree?
Travel the world and the seven seas Everybody is looking for something.
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 20th, 2002.
Went through chemotherapy, and I won't bore your listeners with my long story.
And I described it all in Miracle in Maui because I wanted to get it out to the medical community and let them understand what we mean by miracles, not these old kind of weird kind of things.
But something profoundly powerful happened.
Had they listened to my heart, had I even listened earlier to my heart, might have been diagnosed earlier.
And here's all these people now filling my heart, and I mean that literally, with hopelessness, with despair, and I certainly don't embrace, and we can talk about that tonight with any callers or anybody else, I'm not embracing this idea that if you have the right attitude, you're going to live forever.
And if you love enough, that's just ridiculous.
I know why people die.
I've got the answer.
We're mortal.
And I'm tired of that kind of, it's hate to sound angry about it, but I heard a lot of that.
If you had the right attitude, you would have lived.
That wasn't the point.
But the point was that they were giving me a death sentence and not allowing me to heal in my way.
And here we are now.
That's maybe almost 14 years ago.
I feel you'll get a laugh out of this art.
I go for my physical exam about a year ago.
And you're always worried, even after you've gone through something like this.
And here I am dying, and I can tell you this as fact, and now as scientist, I could feel the hearts of those around me bringing me back.
Hearts connect to other hearts.
I hate to just bring the scientist out me again on this, but there was a study done at the Samsung Medical Research Institute.
They did a treadmill study, interesting study.
They took a group of biopsied heart cells.
They took it from somebody, And then that person from whom they took the biopsy to check their heart cells was sent across town to a lab to do a stress test.
His cells were left on the other side of town.
While running on the treadmill, his cells began to beat faster across town.
Now, that stuff sounds so bizarre that most scientists, therefore, will say, I'm not going to deal with it.
They had the lab technicians take these cells out to Because that, if you got the right word, they're coincidentally, because they're looking at this and they're wondering, why are these cells pulsating like this so fast?
So all they have to do is look up the treadmill test time and say, my gosh.
Well, you see, I've always been told that, you know, the Fs that you mentioned are in the center part of our brain, our reptile center part of the brain, and that the outer part of the brain, the front part of the brain, the frontal lobe, is engaged in the higher aspects of.
But you're telling me some of this is really the heart.
We now know, and I'm sure you do this even though you have a scientific mine art, you make decisions on your show as to who will be on, the validity of your guests, how you're going to plan your program, not only mentally, but what's in your heart.
Our criterion for collecting this is I wanted to talk to the donor families, to the recipient families, to the recipient, to the surgeon if possible, or at least the medical staff, and collect this data and not try to lead them, and I'm not perfect on this, and just let them talk.
Right, we have to be very careful with that, and we never violate that.
And some states have different rules about this, and there are ethics involved in this.
But these patients, the sad thing for us has been, since I published this material, patients call every day saying, Dr. Pearsall, I want to talk about this, but I've been made front of by other transplant patients who say this guy's nuts.
I don't want to hear about it.
By other doctors, or they get sent to the psychiatrist because they're crazy.
And before we tell these stories, I just want to make sure we're clear on this.
We are scientists looking at this.
I want to know why this happens.
Is it due, to some degree, to all these terrible, these strong immunosuppressive drugs that these people are on for life?
Is it due because of the transplant process, to the trauma?
There are many other explanations, but to be a good scientist, you must not think either or, but perhaps and.
I'll tell you a quick one that doesn't count first.
This one doesn't count because I gave a lecture on this, and an internist in the audience was smirking the whole time I was talking, like, this is ridiculous.
And this happens to me after many lectures.
This guy came up afterwards and said, I need to talk to you in private.
I'm going to tell you a story, but you can't tell him I told you.
Happens to like I'm a confessional here.
And he says, this is a story that I hope that you will publish someplace.
Well, I can't because I don't have the data.
Here's what he told.
A little girl had had a heart transplant.
Now, the decision for the transplantation nowadays has a lot to do with size more than anything else, size of the body, to match it up.
This little girl, he wanted to introduce to me.
So she finally comes up, pulls open her blouse, and you've seen that.
Have you ever seen the heart transplant or the heart, even for open heart surgery, the scars there, especially in the old days?
but i want that but those were just all they are on story they are and what you know is there i mean what do you Are you then allowed to go back and say, "Guess what?
My guest is Dr. Paul Pearsall, and I suggest you stay right where you are.
Gary in Westland, Michigan says, are you know, those of us who are old enough to know, know the heart thinks.
This is why we've had so many hit songs that contain the word heart.
Go back and listen to the oldies.
Well, I don't have to.
listen to them all the time and you are exactly correct Well, okay, once again, Dr. Paul Pearsall, Doctor, just a quick question.
Why do we have these, what is the rationale behind the laws that protect the donor and the recipient or the recipient from information about the donor?
Well, I think probably everybody, each state probably has their own reasons that these laws evolve and they vary.
But I think the idea is that that donation may lead to the family that's going to get this heart coming back and asking for something more or more acquaintance and intimacy to the donor family than that donor family may want.
And although I have been at several ceremonies now that have been set up, and we'll read some stories about it tonight or talk about them, set up especially for the donors to meet the recipient families and vice versa.
And the recipient, I've been there, and don't forget, as I said, I had a bone neural transplant myself.
So I've been there as a speaker and observed these phenomenon, and I have never been moved so than to see these people.
They have what's called a giving tree.
And very often the recipient will come up and hang up a picture of their donor on the tree, and everybody just cries and moves.
But the transplant has been made four or five years ago.
And again, I hate to sound like a melodramatic here, but that isn't even the whole story.
Because then this woman, a physician, walks over and says, Can I listen to your son's chest, the recipient mom's chest, son's chest.
She puts her head against this boy's chest and listens to her son's heart beating.
At that moment, the recipient boy whispers to this mother of the donor, how is Auntie Gwen?
Auntie Gwen, says this physician to me later, is her sister who was dying of cancer when her little boy was still alive.
How did this boy know that?
I asked the recipient mother, have anybody in your family named Auntie Gwen?
Nope.
And then what made this story even more dramatic for me, and I witnessed this, is when this mother of the donor has her head against the chest of the boy, when they're done, they embrace.
And the little recipient boy reaches up and grabs the nose of the donor mother and tweaks it, twists it like you would a little child.
And every time the BBC or Germany television just followed me around for a few days and they said, we want to talk to your patients, I said, never again.
Never again.
Because these patients, when they are mocked sometimes, as I said before, you've done so many shows on controversial and cutting-edge things.
And some of these people pay a horrendous price, Art, for doing this.
So I've had to guard their confidence so, so carefully.
And you have to remember, I'm a clinical neuropsychologist.
I was trained to just worship this brain as the be-all, end-all.
But I have learned now that all these metaphors, everything we've said about the heart, is literally true.
It thinks, it connects with other hearts.
You know, the brain's had its turn for a few decades.
But that's a transference of some kind of consciousness we're talking about here, Doctor.
You know, I did a show a few days ago on the subject of reincarnation.
And reincarnation is interesting.
During the break, my wife said, Gee, what you're talking about sounds just like reincarnation.
Well, not quite.
With reincarnation, unless you search for these memories of some other life, they're not conscious memories, and if they're affecting you, it is subconsciously more than likely.
So this is not like reincarnation in the sense that, my God, it appears some part of consciousness is being transferred along with the organ.
And that should be, we should now start to wonder about the nature of consciousness itself, not just memory, but that approach is consciousness.
I mean, that's a contemporary how-is and so-and-so.
I think you're right, because I think it bemeans the importance of what we're talking about.
It's just simply just putting an organ in somebody and some kind of special, weird energy is transferred.
I think it's much more than that.
And that's what you're dancing around when you're talking about that.
As a scientist, I want to make sure I have my ducks lined up and make sure that these stories are verified and reported carefully.
And I know when the most recent publication was in the Journal of Near-Death Studies, and we did open-ended tape interviews, quoted verbatim, with transplant recipients, family members, donor family, and friends, and nurses and doctors where possible.
And even in that article, the stories were just dramatic.
And I'm going to answer your question, but I've always been reluctant to do so because I'm concerned about credibility, and I never talk about them in lectures because it looks like I'm trying to hold myself up as the example.
in because it's it's very i'm a scientist and i know that some of the things i'm saying i used to explain since i've studied the brain as a psychologist and i think well this is due to a little firing at a lack of oxygen and death and all of these things yes let me answer your question sure all three times that i had died i saw saw my grandmother.
In Hawaiian, they call the word tutu.
There she is in her wheelchair, saying clear to me as could possibly be each time, pointing to her heart, which is why she died, her heart.
Saying, go back, you must tell them.
Go back, you must tell them.
Every time I went through this, I saw her.
The surgeons, when I was in for surgery for this cancer, said, even under anesthesia, which is bizarre, coming out of this, you would say, Grandma, tell them what?
What I'm suggesting in my research and others who are looking at the heart, we've always looked for answers and whatever this consciousness is and this connection of consciousness in the brain.
I'm suggesting that it's certainly much broader than that.
Right, I've been told that, and you're quite right.
It's funny, you wonder what those critics so dead against heart transplant would do if their heart was failing totally or someone they love was losing their heart.
There was a commercial about that that ran on radio for a long time that was really, really good.
I think the fellow's heart or something or another was failing, and the doctor said, well, we've got a heart, you know, but it's from a black person or something or another.
But anybody listening to my voice now that's had a family member with a transplant such as me or a child who's needed a transplant or those waiting for organs tonight, you know, if I can bring a little bit of lightness to this, I went to Seattle to lecture on transplant and went to the transplant unit.
And they all wanted to hear me talk about this.
And it was a horrendously rainy, terrible night when we landed.
I was there an hour late, and I go into the unit and I say, I'm so sorry.
It's a terrible, rainy, slippery night.
And they all said in unison, good, because they're all waiting for transplants.
And there's that kind of black humor.
And the photographer stands up on the stool to take our picture together.
And he almost falls.
And this lady next to me, must have been about 50, very weak, goes.
She says, if he falls, I get his heart.
So I don't mean to make light of this, but transplant is a sacred thing.
You see, and the people who are getting hearts, who get angry about it, are really protecting themselves because they don't want to believe this because of the implications of it, obviously.
And I understand that and defend it absolutely, totally.
But the problem that we're, and I think you're dancing around this when you talk about consciousness, the one thing that's coming out in every kind of show you're doing, all these issues that are sort of out-of-the-box things that scientists are looking at, is this extension of consciousness beyond this Limited view we have.
And those of us who speak of it, like many of the guests you have and the pioneers that speak about this, really suffer for this.
And they're seen as the fringe of this.
But I think that if we don't have, start, at least in my view, speaking as Hawaiian and as a doctor, start looking to a generation of the heart, we're going to start continuing to behave as the brain does, which is territorial by boundaries.
The brain is in a lethal alliance with its own body.
That's why the heart's getting killed by this brain.
It drives us beyond recognition.
Who among us has not gone to bed at night and that brain won't let us sleep?
And we're discussing hard information, actually, about what's come along with heart transplants.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 20th, 2002.
I can feel it coming in the air tonight.
Oh, Lord.
I'm away for the Lord for my life.
Oh, Lord.
Can I feel it coming in the air tonight?
Oh Lord, Oh Lord Cause if you told me you were drowning, I would not end the hand.
The End Be it sight, sand, smell, or touch, something inside that we need so much.
The sight of the touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak roots deep in the ground.
The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
To lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing.
All these things in our memories are And they use them to help us to fight Yeah Why does this all take this place All this strength just gonna be
Why Take a free ride Take a place Have a scene It's all free Why would I want to say it to the end Sweat so hard just to end my fears I'm doing my life All my hands But by
now, by now I shall cry Thank you.
Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired March 20th, 2002.
You know, if you're tuning in, Lane, I think it's probably important that you know that Dr. Pearsall, the magnitude of the person you're listening to, graduated as Distinguished Scholar from the University of Michigan, did his postgraduate training at the Harvard and Albert Einstein Schools of Medicine,
designed and served as chief of the award-winning psychiatric clinic at Sinai Hospital, was director of behavioral medicine at Beaumont Hospital, professor of clinical psychiatry and neurosciences at the Wayne State University School of Medicine, has authored over 300 professional journal articles and 14 best-selling books, which, by the way, you can pursue on my website.
We've got links up there tonight.
Dr. Pierceall, you know, before too much time slips away, any other stories you might have, first-hand knowledge on your part, I would love to hear.
I should finish the tape part because the recipient's father then.
Remember, I tried to interview as many people as I could.
The recipient's father of Danielle was a college chemistry professor.
And here's what he said.
I'm reading right off the tape, my manuscript.
Until she got sick, Danielle was what you might call a real hell raiser.
She had been a hyperactive all through school until she got really, really sick.
But after her transplant, she became much quieter and calmer than she ever was before.
She said she felt like she had fallen in love with her donor.
She had lots of energy, but she was more reflective and introspective somehow.
She wanted to get guitar lessons and begin writing songs.
That was really not at all like her.
She would have made fun of that.
When we saw the pictures of her donor, I saw my daughter grab her chest with both hands, smile, and break into tears.
It was like she was greeting someone she had known forever.
I know this is all weird and stupid stuff, probably just a real strange string of remarkable coincidences, but it is pretty interesting stuff, isn't it?
I've got a computer next to me, and they pepper me with questions.
That's a lovely story, of course.
But not all donors are nice people.
Sometimes donors are really nasty people who get hit by cars or shot because they were involved in something awful or who knows why people.
And so have you run into any cases where the effects of the transference of whatever it is, the consciousness that's transferred is not welcome because the person who made the donation wasn't a good person?
Sometimes, and it's interesting before I answer your question completely, this controversy really came up because they were in some states contemplating that prisoners who had committed pretty bad crimes, if they would donate an organ, not the heart of course, but an organ, could buy time off their sentence or avoid the death sentence.
Then the question became, would you want the kidney of a mass murderer, for example?
Well, when you talk to trans people who are dying, they'll say, give me a kidney.
And the reason for that is that we must understand that this heart is joining a system, a full system of cells, of 75 trillion other cells.
The memory of your other heart is still there.
So the question is not that you're going to transform yourself completely into a murderer or a mass murderer.
But I don't want to back off your question, Art, because there are people, for example, who tell me, I wouldn't even want to wear the watch that Charlie Manson wore.
So this raises, the interesting thing to me as a scientist is that it raises those questions.
I am no guru.
I don't have the answers.
I only know who someone who was dying that I would have given anything.
And I know that if I had not had my transplant, I would have died.
And those are things that your listeners would have to look at, each in their own way.
I did have one case where the wife said, since my husband got that heart, he has been the most, he used to be the most passive, kind man, and now he just is the most aggressive, swearing, cussing, angry man I've ever seen.
And it turned out he had the heart of somebody who had been a prisoner.
So, however, over time, Over time again, things changed.
Things changed.
And that's why, even raising this issue on your show, to be open enough to at least discuss it so that somebody can talk to their doctor and not be sent to the psychiatrist because they're delusional and say, let's at least learn from this.
That's all I'm asking.
You know, there was an old statement you might remember by William James that said, it is enough to prove that all crows aren't black if you can prove just one is white.
Does a blood transfusion confuse the heart, cause it to adapt to the donor's needs and not the recipients?
Or does blood itself, which of course courses through the heart quite frequently, also, in other words, when you get a transfusion, what are the possibilities?
But you had asked me earlier, and I should have answered your question.
All organs seem to carry with them these cellular memories.
Even eye-type transplants, certainly kidneys.
We see a lot of that with kidneys, especially manifested as changing in food preferences to match the person who had donated the kidney.
But to answer the question about blood, blood is just, of course, just billions of cells coursing through there.
But the answer is how we began your show tonight.
That heart is an immensely powerful organ, as we've talked about earlier.
And it is pulsating with immense energy.
But I got a call from Sweden the other day saying to me, and maybe this addresses your caller's question, he said, Dr. Pearcell, I read your book, but you're wrong.
You said the heart is not only a pump, it's not a pump at all.
I said, no, wait a minute, what you talking about?
And he said, the pump is not strong enough to do what you're describing, two and a half times around the earth.
So what we think is that the blood has, these cells in the blood have memories of their own, and they're coming to the heart and swinging through it like you would.
The heart acts more like a swing, like a child on a swing, and is shoved through by the blood.
So the recaller's question is that certainly blood donations then certainly also carry these memories.
And most people, I assume, that if they had some new little thought or concern, would never in a million years necessarily think it came as a result of, say, a transfusion.
It would just be a new thought or a new remembrance that was perhaps somewhat vague or even specific.
When I was dying of cancer, I remember feeling my wife's heartbeat in mine and kept it going.
I've done this with audiences where we will play Hawaiian hula, which is at about 72 bits per minute, and play a very beautiful Hawaiian piece of music and have these real cynical executives stand up with their spouses and hold right hand to left and close their eyes, feel the music.
You will feel that energy exchange.
You know, you've got powerful scientists such as Dr. John at Princeton University's Engineering Anomalies Laboratory talking about such things as love energy, L energy, this fifth type of energy.
Maybe it's energy.
Maybe it's electricity.
Maybe it's non-locality.
We have to start asking, but if your listeners will try this with someone they're close to, they will have a profound sense of what it's like to connect with someone else's heart.
I'm not being facetious when I say the brain is concerned with self.
It thinks, I'm going to protect me.
This can't be true.
This is impossible.
How could this happen?
I know you've had Dr. Larry Dossi on your show, and he wrote a brilliant article called The Right Man Syndrome.
He talked about the right men who constantly extend the research goalposts, who won't open their mind and hearts to such things as non-locality.
For heaven's sakes, Bell's theorem that says that two things once attached are attached forever across time and space, which is quantum physics fact, blows some people's minds.
One of my patients the other day said, if I get a pig valve, am I going to oink?
No, you're not.
Because you're not going to do that.
Because as I said, the effect typically is subtle.
As we began this show, I said, I regret that I share most of these very dramatic stories because I suspect that these are being reported by the superstars, just like you know there are some psychic superstars who are able to do some profound things.
There's no doubt in the data anymore that psych experiences are real.
Any scientist who denies that is not reading the journals.
But the effect is subtle.
Same with the heart.
So those people who may call into you and say, this is stupid and this can't be and this is new age gobbledygook and this is witchcraft, they're Reacting the same way as when Einstein may suggest that mass and energy are the same thing.
Yeah, the Apaches would kill the buffalo and eat the heart to get its energy.
Every indigenous medicine, what's the fourth chakra?
The heart.
What does Ayurvedic medicine, Chinese medicine do?
It takes the pulses and diagnoses by pulse.
It's our modern mechanical medicine that is focused primarily on the brain running the body in a lethal alliance, and the heart is simply a pump sending blood.
Remember again from all of this, every story I've told you so far, even though the effects are profound, listen to the emotion behind this.
It's almost always a loving emotion and a subtle effect.
Even that last story I read to you from the tape, this was not some.
They described it with such caring and sensitivity.
If there's any common theme in every journal article we published about these cases is there's a gentleness and caring motive for this behind both sides of this.
That's a very important lesson.
Maybe, just maybe, that's teaching us that this consciousness we're talking about is a pretty loving kind of consciousness if we tune into it.
Maybe it's the brain that has such a bad attitude.
Well, there's the donor to think about for a second.
I mean, if we're talking, we tend to, of course, talk about the recipient because the recipient is alive and we can get stories from the recipient.
But if you're considering being a donor, for example, don't you have to consider the possibility that some of your consciousness, since we don't know so much about all of this right now, that some of your consciousness may live and one thought pattern might be that you don't want that to occur.
I mean, as you consider whether or not you want to be a donor, and I know I'm talking heresy here because you all need donors, but that would be something you would think about, that perhaps you would live on in some way that you probably ought not to in God's world.
But our answer to this is, please understand what we're saying.
We're talking about transplant, but we're also saying that the heart is a miraculous organ.
We are already exchanging our consciousness with one another all the time, that heart consciousness.
You can't tell me, Art, that even over the phone, 1,000 miles away, when you're talking to a guest, that you don't have some kind of sense of the energy, if I can use that word.
You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 20th, 2002.
But he left me much too soon, his lady birth.
He left his...
Day turned black, sky ripped apart Wait for years, they're down in my heart Cracks and
leaves, the floorboards could die Had to go down and almost could not All I got to do is to love you All I got to be is a B.I.B.
All it's got to take yourself through All it's to make it blow away, blow away, blow away All I got to do is to, to love you All I got to be is a B.I.B.
All it's got to take is something for It's make it blow away, blow away, blow away All it's got to be is a B.I.B.
The sky cleared up, day turned to fly All it's more time than a head could fly All it's got to be is a B.I.B.
All it's got to be is a B.I.B.
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 20th, 2002.
Once again, Dr. Paul Pearsall, Doctor, I'm getting a lot of questions on the computer screen that sort of follow where we were going with the discussion of consciousness, which for many people will automatically flow into the word soul.
And so a lot of people are asking questions like, what, if by using another person's organ, the soul of that other person essentially remains until the death of the recipient has ever been discussed?
And some of the flack we get are sometimes from very religious people who say you're tampering with the soul.
As researchers, though, we're saying, look, certainly I'm not going to be so arrogant as to say I understand what the soul is, but most researchers understand from the data that life is certainly a sacred process.
And whatever the soul is, most of us had better start to broaden our idea of it because it is not just a limited, selfish thing.
All of us are connected.
I know that phrase has been thrown around so loosely, but it is profoundly so.
And I found a case when we were on break that might address that question you just raised.
If I can just tell you this right off the tape again, again, documented cases.
And it came up when we were doing the research, and then these doctors and nurses would sit us down and say, you know, you're talking about these transplants, but with bypass, we're seeing these changes.
Well, I know, but once the blood supply is essentially restored, then you would expect to see the person perhaps go back to what they were prior to when they got sick.
One of the things I learned, how stupid a researcher can be, is our patients with Donors, recipients, excuse me, would say to me, please, when they know I'm open to this kind of talk, not to the other doctors, I'm always the weird one they'll tell this to.
Please, doctor, let me say a very long goodbye to my heart and thank it for what it did.
We have to understand that heart will beat sometimes for minutes and longer outside the body.
I've held the heart in my hand.
I have felt that energy.
You ask any transplant surgeon.
I have sat the diseased heart next to the healthy heart that's going to go in the body.
And I have seen them, not touching now, I've seen them fall into sync in the same beat as if they are communicating with one another.
Every cardiovascular surgeon will tell you they have witnessed the same thing if they're honest.
If they're honest about it.
Some don't want to even deal with this.
As you said earlier, it's a lot easier to get angry and defensive and just say, oh, the body is just a mechanical thing and only the brain is sacred.
But what, did you know that weeks before the brain fully forms, the heart beats before the brain begins to develop?
And it beats, you want to talk about strange, from a kind of a vortex of energy, here we go, that word again, forms, the heart, that area begins to throb, forms into a heart, and then the brain forms.
From that point forward, the heart is still talking to the brain by the atriomaturatic factor, atrial peptide, by many, many types of neurochemicals and transmitters.
Back in 1987, they declared neurocardiology, that the heart has a brain of its own.
Well, how could a surgeon not notice, as you pointed out, a diseased heart and a healthy heart side by side just as the switch is being made, falling into sync?
Or is that something that just mentally lock it out?
It might happen, but everybody knows if you put a heart cell, no other cell in the body but the heart, in a Petri dish, in a medium, and then you take a cell from someone else's heart and put that cell in there, they will fall into sync.
It sounds so redundant, but it looks like this kind of non-locality, this energy connection, hearts connecting with one another, is not just metaphor.
So when we say he wears his heart on his sleeve, my heart goes out to you, you've hurt my heart, you broke my heart, it's the heart crying out for attention.
Very few hearts are murderers.
Brains are.
Brains are very selfish, territorial.
That's what they're designed to do.
And how many times have you heard people say, she or he has a good heart?
That speaks to that concept of the soul, the spirit.
This research is just beginning, but it may offer some ways to understand all of these things, soul, spirit.
What about the power of prayer?
When these hearts go out to each other, is there something involved in that?
And so, don't forget, the witches that were burned at the stake were, of course, mostly women who had the audacity to question the medical model of those days.
Well, most of those that I've talked to, I mentioned the Mitzaz and others, have been sensitive to it and doing it in the closet because they've been afraid to speak of this.
Patients have talked about it and talked about it for as long as this process has been going on.
But some of the pioneers in this wanted to be sure it was just seen as a pump for every question Art Bell has asked me tonight.
The politics of it, the fear of it, are you putting somebody's new soul in there?
The two couples were sitting across from each other, and my research student is Sitting there and they're telling stories, and he's taking notes.
And suddenly, this very quiet Japanese wife named Kim, sitting next to the recipient, yells and interrupts the whole thing and says to the woman sitting next to the donor, Is your name Susan?
And she said, My God, how did you know?
And she said, Because my name is Kim, and my husband's yelling out your name when he's making love to me.
I've worked in the operating rooms for about eight years.
And when I was up in Eastern Maine Medical Center, up in Maine, you know, I've told this story a few times.
No one really believes it.
I've done about 20 procurements.
And, Doc, you would understand some of this.
When I was in anesthesia tech, basically what I did, you know, assist the doc, make the slush, put the heart and all that in.
So one night we were using a room that we don't normally use.
And, you know, once you get the heart out, you know, anesthesia is done.
You know, they shut the machine down and we leave.
And then they get the liver and the kidneys and all that.
Well, we were done about 2-3 in the morning, shut the room down, and shut the OR down, locked it up, and we go into the lounge and we're eating our lunch.
Well, about 15 minutes later, this is a donor story.
It's a little different than what you've been talking about tonight.
That's right.
One of the doctors that I'm calling comes into the lounge and starts yelling at me.
I said, what's going on?
You know, the nurse, the circulator, is there, the surgical tech.
And he starts yelling.
He goes, when I talk to you, I want you to answer me.
Don't just walk away.
Well, I said, what are you talking about, Doc?
I said, I've been in here for 20 minutes eating lunch.
He goes, well, I just went into the room to get my headlamp, and you were in there, and you walked out the back door.
And I asked you a question, and you just kind of waved and said, like, bye to me, and just walked out into the scrub area.
And he goes, next time you do that, he goes, I'll write you up.
And then the nurse goes, doctor, you know, there's no one in this OR but us three people.
He goes, she goes, you just must be imagining it.
She goes, no one's in that room.
That was the room that we did the procurement in.
And the doctor goes, look, there's a little guy.
He's just his size.
I ask him a question.
He walks away from me.
Well, the man that we did the procurement on was about my size and height and coloring and all that.
And his eyes just kind of looked at us like, you know, he didn't want to fight us.
He goes, you've got to be kidding.
I said, no, Doc.
I said, there's no one in there but us.
I'm the only man here.
I've been here for 20 minutes.
He just kind of looked at me.
I said, we just did a procurement in there an hour ago.
And you've never seen a doctor turn pale white in all your life.
He raises way out, another issue that some of the people asking me about my research asked me, and they said, you talk about the recipient's connection to the donor.
Now, this is going to really stretch your imagination.
Donor is gone, but as your caller just said, what about the donor's connection to the recipient?
If we are really embracing non-locality in its fullest extent, then isn't it possible that that donor is still connecting with that recipient?
Yeah, and so that really raises complicated issues here and may deal with what you said you were encountering when you're talking about people having, I know when Dr. Schwartz is on and talks about people contacting those who've passed over.
I would like to know if, are the synchronized pulsing of the cells from two different people also applicable to people in animal blood, like perhaps Mrs. Aukins, the chicken heart?
Well, you know, I don't know if this is addressing your question, but one thing we have found is that this is apocryphal, but I had a blind patient who had terrible heart cardiac arrhythmias.
And the only time those arrhythmias would steady out was when he had his hand on the heart of his dog.
Not only that, we've had several children, I'm sure you know of this, who have had seizures, and they have dogs that sense the seizure far before it happens and are able to go and throw the child down and hold the child down so they don't get hurt.
Cloning has been a reality for decades, also nearly a century, since almost the turn of the century, actually.
And transplants are fine for what they do, but when can we start looking forward to regeneration of our own organs the way our liver already regenerates itself?
I want to be able to regenerate everything in my body.
But I think your question is a very important and interesting one that has to also be addressed when we do such things as chlorine.
Because what does this mean in terms of the energy, the memories, the electromagnetic aspects, and all that stuff we've talked about for these three hours?
Yeah, I think that there's some good rationale for what you're saying because I'm not so sure either that our model of the heart is just the pump is accurate either.
unidentified
No, valve.
Anyway, the other thing is, do you think that the Bach remedies out of England would be of any use to the people suffering from nightmares once they make their stories known and they're properly recorded as data and before their own system stabilizes, maybe they could be helped with those?
And if that's not familiar, I can give you a couple of quick references.
I only know a little bit about it, but I think the answer would be yes to that.
unidentified
I think get the Philip Chancellor case book.
He's the author of the case book.
And then MacTeild Schaefer out of, I think, Switzerland has done a wonderful book which concentrates on using them for psychological purposes rather than any tie-in to the physical.
Okay, last of all, there is a circle that comes back from the brain to the body in my mind, and that is that while the brain may be selfish, there is an unselfish, very universal aspect to that neocortex, which does not have any sight, any physical sight, but it does have a very wide reach.
And that's the part of the brain which can make the circle back to the loving heart, I think.
I think you're right, and I hope I'm not embarrassing Art here, but I do believe on the website that Art's going to have somebody who wrote a book called Why God Won't Go Away.
Somebody in Todd, Nashville, Tennessee, asks an interesting question, and that is, do you notice any difference between the effect of heart recipients and the effect of multiple, I mean, sometimes it's hearts and lungs and multiple organs.
We're doing some amazing things.
Is the effect at all magnified or is there not enough research yet with multiple transplants?
Since I'm doing a lot of the research, there's not been enough of that kind, but the answer so far is a tentative yes, because the cases that we've had when there's been this heart-lung transplantation particularly, which is a lot of tissue going in and a lot of cells, yes, the effect does seem to be more found, more profound.
But you're going to have cynics now say, well, that's because the surgery was more radical.
They were sicker people.
There's arguments for it.
But the answer is absolutely, unequivocally, yes.
I had a patient the other day who had a new liver.
Just to show you, we're talking about the heart.
And this was the most calm, gentle woman prior to her surgery.
She had to leave the room when her husband watched football.
It was too violent.
She got the liver of a boxer.
Now she's a pro-wrestling, boxing, violent sort of fan.
That's a very, very important point you're making because aside from Western science, indigenous science, scripture, religion has always talked about the importance of the role of the heart and a pure heart.
unidentified
Yeah, because it even says that Jesus said, first thou shalt love the Lord with your heart, then with your soul, then with your mind.
Yeah, I think it's going to, I don't know, it's a very low percent.
The saddest thing I do, Art, is to go around on rounds and see these patients praying and praying for their life and for an organ and to see how, and they feel so badly when they see them wasted.
Yeah, it's just a matter of your show has done marvels tonight because as that man just said from Hawaii, if there's two or three listeners out there who say, that does it, I'm going to really think about this.
When I was a teenager, I read the teachings of an Indian spiritual teacher who said that whenever people say I from all over the world, say I referring to themselves, they point to the same spot, two digits to the right of the center of the chest between the two breasts.
So I've observed this for about 25 years now, and 100% of the time when people have said I without thinking, instinctively, they have always pointed to the same spot.
And so I was just wondering if Dr. Piersall has ever observed to see, in terms of the seat of consciousness, where people with their finger actually point to automatically, even young children from all over the world when they say I. We tested even Art on that earlier in the show, and he did that.
Now, Doctor, I know that you have a recent book on the subject of miracles, which we have, well, I guess in a way we've been talking about miracles tonight of a sort.
Those people who really need the research, too, if they go back to Miracle in Maui or The Hearts Code, they'll find the data to support what we've said tonight.
Then I think not only the average person, but perhaps some heart transplant surgeons and people in the medical field probably ought to do a little reading as well, eh?