Art Bell interviews Robert Bruce, a metaphysicist documenting psychic attacks by "negative spiritual beings" (negs), including demonic possession cases like an Australian man killing his family under influence, later reversing. Bruce describes personal near-death encounters—such as a rooftop entity forcing him to drop his baby—linked to OBEs and the "devil’s mark" (a bloodless scar-forming lump). He confirms Father Malachi Martin’s claim of an 800% rise in evil, attributing it to lower-dimensional entities manifesting physically. Bruce’s techniques, like the rope method for controlled astral projection, contrast with callers’ spontaneous fears, while he dismisses fundamentalist views lumping all spirits as evil, noting angels exist but must be verified by actions. His upcoming books, The Practical Psychic Self-Defense (June/July) and Astral Dynamics, promise deeper insights into defending against unseen forces. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest.
I bid you all good evening and good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the entire world, all 24-time zones served by this radio program, Coast to Coast AM, emanating from a little tiny town called Trump, Nevada.
I'm Ardel Latme here.
Good to be talking to the denizens of the night.
You know, I've been thinking about that a lot lately.
There really is a very large difference between people who live in the nighttime.
I mean, that's their awake time.
That's their living time in the dark hours.
And those who subsist during the day.
One night we should have a talk about that.
I wonder how many of the rest of you have thought about that.
The difference between day people and night people is a big difference.
Really big difference.
Anyway, let's look at the world news such as it is.
I'm criticized frequently for having topics that are a little dark, you know, but when I look at the news, the world news, it's really darker than most anything I ever talk about.
The actual news.
Our president is in Beijing.
Actually, he's not.
He's in Korea.
I think he's in South Korea, I guess.
At any rate, he's talking about Beijing.
And he's basically saying that he wants to strike a deal.
I guess he is there, huh?
Let's see.
President Bush was greeted at the Great Hall.
And then the two went behind closed doors to try and knock out a deal as follows.
China stops its selling nuclear stuff to nations that we're not real happy with.
Our side of the deal is we lift sanctions so they can launch satellites.
U.S. companies, TV satellites, radio satellites, whatever.
The Chinese want to get into and have been in the satellite launching business and they want business.
And so our end of the deal would be to allow them to suddenly launch whatever company's satellites they would like launched.
In Israel, the situation continues to get worse.
So many dead.
After Israel lost 13 over the last week, they decided they're going to start, I guess, operating in some different way.
22 Palestinians dead.
One day of clashes.
22 Palestinians, boy.
The situation in the Middle East is just getting hotter and hotter and hotter as it was said it would.
The ghastly discovery of, now they're saying, I heard on the news, it could be up to 300 bodies in the woods near Georgia crematorium has illustrated what consumer advocates say is a total lack of state regulation and oversight of the industry other than EPA.
You know, the emissions that a crematorium would have.
There's not a whole lot of control.
There's a horrible story from Egypt.
I don't know if you've been following this, but apparently, you know, I was talking to Ramona who said that people, I remember this in a lot of third world countries, we experienced this in China, communist China.
A long train.
Boy, was that a scary train ride.
That really, it was the scariest train ride of our lives.
Not exactly what you would call luxury accommodations.
You know, you're on benches, you're with the other Chinese, and we were racing through the night, and I mean through the night, on this rickety old train with bathrooms that no American would ever go in toward the border area, but pretty deep in communist China.
And there were red guards everywhere, and they watch you very closely, and you get a lot of very strong advice from the people who are leading the party about how you act and how you don't act when you're in China, because if you act the wrong way, they will not read you your rights.
Believe me.
But on a train apparently like that in Egypt, a fire started because somebody was cooking something or had something to keep them warm or whatever, and it was toward the front of the train.
And somehow they didn't know that the fire was going on.
They're doing 70, 80 miles an hour.
And of course, the fire just raced to the rear of the train.
Scores of people were trapped inside, some by window grills.
And there are many dead, 370 dead, they think, right now.
Horrible.
You can imagine as the fire raced backwards what it must have been like.
Not a good way to die.
The Supreme Court today urged to keep mentally retarded killers off-state death rows by declaring those executions unconstitutionally cruel and unusual punishment.
Case turns on whether the public's attitude about those executions may have changed since 1989 when the court upheld them by a 5-4 vote.
How do you feel about that?
It's a tight one for the court.
It's going to be a tight one for everybody.
What do you do with a mentally retarded person?
Do you execute them?
Do you really consider them responsible for their actions?
And, you know, at what line of mental retardation or IQ level, where is that line?
They have to establish, it seems, something because, you know, executing complete idiots, I don't think should be our national business.
And so if I was a Supreme Court judge, I'd probably establish a line.
You have to.
It's hard to do.
It's like below a certain age, a minor is a minor doesn't get a record as an adult, is not tried as an adult normally.
And you need some kind of line like that, it seems to me, for those you would execute, and those you would say, no, they're just not here.
Not all there, certainly not here.
And so you don't kill somebody like that.
Or do you?
Supreme Court said, yes, 5-4 a lot of years ago.
I wonder how people feel about that now.
So you see, that's what I mean about the news.
If you listen to the news, and I just read you the top stories airing right now, it's at least, it's much more gruesome than anything I typically discuss.
Maybe not.
Well, yes, every bit is scary, really, too.
So you see, the real world isn't all that different in almost every respect from that which some people consider unreal.
Now, here's a pretty interesting letter, and it's got a website backup.
Hello, Mr. Bell.
Oh, no, it's the next one.
Hello, Mr. Bell.
I lived in Ellensburg, meaning Ellensburg, Washington, home of the hole, for nearly three years, some number of years.
Pretty wild place there.
I truly believe that the holes exist.
Notice I said holes, plural.
See, in the course of routine socializing, at the time I resided in Ellensburg, I was made privy to some ancient lore about some kid at a beer party.
Seems that a bunch of guys had been up at Lions Rock spotting some elk when he stumbled into and apparently into a very large hole.
His buddy, also in pursuit of the elusive Peaberry bush, managed to stop when he heard screams from below his feet.
Three people at the scene swear they could still hear his screams faintly after 30 seconds of the most heart-wrenching noise imaginable.
There is now supposedly a cabin built over the hole, and the Indians in the area hold sacred rituals there, sacrificing occasional offerings to the great chief.
Very hush-hush kind of stuff, methinks.
Well, it sounded fishy to me, too.
I never thought much about the deep hole thing until your recent Ellensburg shows.
I thought I'd pass this along at the time.
I figured it must be a vent.
Perhaps it opened up during the last time Renier erupted or something like that.
It's kind of sad to think about some guy dumping tires down a natural phenomena like that, though.
Because everybody gets by the best way they know how.
And then there's this, and we do have a photo on the website now for this.
I don't know why I thought it interesting, but I did.
From Wayne, Art just wanted to drop you a note about a very weird experience that just happened.
I was on my southside porch when I heard some branches breaking.
And I quickly ducked.
You know, I thought something was going to fall on me.
Something fell, all right.
It was a three-liter bottle of, I think, soda.
Not too strange, except there was nobody around, and it was frozen solid.
Right now, it's 45 degrees outside, and haven't had freezing weather for weeks now.
The bottle is heavy, and I don't think I could throw it 20 feet, much less have it smashed through an extremely large tree.
So I called the police and asked them, please don't think I'm some kind of nut, and explained what had happened.
They sent two officers over to look at the bottle.
They did look at it and dropped it on the concrete and said it sure is frozen.
And thanks for the story of the night.
Now we have something to talk about and ask me to throw it away.
End of story.
Think I'll keep the bottle until I find out who sells this kind of pop.
Good night.
Wayne.
And he sent along with it a picture that he took right away of the pop bottle on the ground, the frozen pop bottle.
You know, you hear tree branches cracking above you.
You know how it would sound, right?
And here comes this bottle of frozen pop sailing down.
Now, just how exactly does that happen anyway?
Did that mean that somebody threw a bottle of pop out the window of an airplane or something?
Possible, I suppose.
Does that mean some freak weather condition sucked up a bottle of pop somewhere and in the upper atmosphere it froze solid as it would do?
Then falling on poor Wayne.
I have no idea.
Either way, interesting.
You pilots of small planes, you know, this is something I've always wondered if there's any pilots of small aircraft out there.
How much of a temptation is it, you know, when you're up there flying around and you're by yourself and you could take a penny or a quarter or a bottle of pop and throw that sucker out the window.
Now, you have to be aware, of course, that some poor schmoo down on the ground could get crowned by a bottle of frozen pop.
Even a penny, it's my understanding, would do some pretty significant damage at terminal velocity, right?
I've always wondered about that.
Any of you small plane pilots copped throwing anything out?
Paper airplanes?
Little messages?
I don't know.
Little things on parachutes?
You ever throw anything out of a plane?
Here is a pretty interesting story.
Last night, I brought you the story about the Pope doing exorcisms, right?
There are some statistics out tonight from Rome and the ZENIT News Agency, whatever that is.
Exorcism requests often come from practitioners of the occult.
23% have pathological problems, says Paris Archdiocese.
Now listen to this.
Very interesting.
More than 30%, that's one-third of the people who request exorcisms, have engaged in activities like witchcraft.
At last week's annual meeting of the French Catholic Exorcists, the Archdiocese outlined the profile of people who request the ritual.
The Paris Archdiocesan Service said that among individuals who request exorcism, 31% engage in witchcraft, spiritualism, or related activities.
23% they say percent suffer from pathological problems like delirium, hallucinations, obsessions, anxiety crisis, suicide attempts, or visions.
18% suffer from family problems like divorce or sexual abuse.
15% suffer depression linked to loneliness, abortion, chronic unemployment, false guilt feelings, death tendencies, similar trends.
So basically, about a third of the people requesting exorcism, and this is, it is really interesting, have engaged in what the church regards as something that would put you in peril of your soul or of being possessed by some evil demon.
31%.
The rest, well, whatever.
But one-third, that is, when you think about it, a pretty intriguing number.
unidentified
Now we take you back to the night of February 20th, 2002 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
It comes from the Colombian capital and the Ananuba website.
Please say up to 50 groups of human vampires are operating in the Colombian capital, Bogota.
That's right.
What did I say?
Please say up to 50 groups of human vampires are operating in the Colombian capital of Bogota.
They dress in black, drink brandy mixed with human blood.
Oh my God.
They usually obtain human blood from contacts in transfusion centers or buy animal blood from the city.
Police say groups of vampires, though, have recently begun stopping passers-by at gunpoint and forcing them to bare their necks, presumably for some kind of donation.
A police spokesperson said it's difficult to prosecute the groups because witnesses are just afraid to come forward.
They don't want to talk about it.
Victims are also worried people will think they're crazy if they report the attacks.
The authorities say they can't do anything about the vampires without hard evidence.
And Colombia's freedom of religion laws mean the police can't stop and search people just because they're dressed like vampires.
I Interpol official Juan Prieto told newspaper El Spectator that he was worried that vampire numbers were increasing.
Mr. Prieto said that vampires could be responsible for several unsolved murders in Bogota, adding, but we've got this problem proving it.
So you've got to admit, it would be pretty weird indeed to be stopped on the street by, you know, at gunpoint or by whatever and forced to donate some precious bodily fluids.
Well, if the government would honor Mel's request, and it was in the contract he supposedly drew up with them when they took over the hole, Mel is to be buried by being tossed into the hole now.
Oh, really?
Oh, yes.
Now, there are certain stories to indicate that things that are thrown into the hole do achieve some sort of immortality.
Now, it may not be what Mel expects.
There was a story of the dog that went in the hole and then it was dead and then came back out of the hole.
And I would presume that Mel, putting that clause in the deal, is imagining that if he's tossed into the hole, he may live again.
And he may live again.
You never know.
But what if it's like Night of the Living Dead?
Where anything that's thrown in there does come back out again.
Yeah, I know it's extremely toxic, but the fact of the matter is they have stored it, and they do check, and background radiation levels near these storage facilities are not any higher than they are anywhere else.
Now, they're going to not begin storing this stuff, I understand, if it's approved until like 2010 or something like that.
But in a lot of ways, I think that a nuclear power plant is of a more immediate danger, say, to you and your area than the storage would be at Yucca Mountain to me.
unidentified
And in reference to the show the other night when the gentleman was speaking of a nuclear power plant right next to the freeway where a truck could be driven up, that's where I live.
And I will not name the location due to the security nature of the...
I mean, now they're talking about as many as 300 bodies, right?
And all I've heard is the guy said that the equipment was broken or something.
I don't buy that at all.
unidentified
No, no.
Not with the whole mummification thing or whatever, that if they, in fact, were doing that down there, why would they all of a sudden release a story and then pull it?
thank you all right i have not heard the story but if someone I don't know a lot about mummification, but it was done, of course, by the Egyptians and others with great success.
So I wonder if they strictly meant that or something else.
Anybody with any information on that is more than welcome to send it along to my email addresses.
Those would be artbell at mindspring.com or artbell at aol.com.
Mummification.
That's strange.
Wildcard line, you are on the air.
Hello.
Now you're on the air.
I'm sorry.
I didn't have the pot up.
You're on the air now.
unidentified
Oh, sorry.
I was talking to myself for a second.
It's about Robert from L.A. I heard the same story what he was talking about, about the mummification.
Yeah, what happens when a body or any living animal, it rots, what happens is a tissue, it can melt off, it could basically rot off the bones, but sometimes the skin actually seals and cues itself.
You've seen that in pictures where there are bodies and it sort of red, it seals.
That's what they're talking about by mummification.
The rotting process stopped on some of the bodies.
Well, you're never too late, but you're too late to have it officially recorded on our list, but you're welcome to make it, and just you're doing that on the air obviously will register it in the minds of many.
Oh, well, there is a rich tradition of Native American prediction.
Certainly, just as we have, as Christians have, a very rich tradition.
Boy, I get in trouble for that, right?
And records of predictions that are made in the Bible.
Native Americans have them, and every religion on the face of the earth has these predictions and visions from some of the early religious leaders that began these various religions.
So, yes.
East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
Good morning.
unidentified
Good morning, Arist.
Hi.
First, I want to ask you about the Mothman Prophecies.
The whole controversy surrounds not the fact that we keep severely mentally retarded people in facilities, but whether or not you execute them for capital crimes and whether they are responsible.
And at what level, at what IQ level is the cutoff point going to be established if there is going to be one established, I think there ought to be.
You don't execute people who are simply totally not responsible for their actions because, as I said earlier, they're not here.
They're not here.
They're there.
They're somewhere else.
they're just not here.
And if our society I'm I think there are limits, just like there are limits of the execution of youth.
We don't execute really young people.
Although I must say, we've been executing younger and younger.
Well, I guess they wait until they're 21, but I'm talking about imposing light or death sentences on people who commit capital crimes.
We treat youth differently, and I would think we would treat the severely mentally retarded differently as well.
Where you draw the line, that's what those incredible men have to decide at the U.S. Supreme Court.
Can you imagine considering and rendering judgment on such issues?
Top of the morning to you, everybody, or whatever time of day it is, wherever you are.
For over 25 years, Robert Bruce has actively explored mechanics, the energetics and dynamics of all things considered paranormal, especially OBE, the human energy body, kundalini, clairvoyance, healing, occult criminality, countermeasures, psychic attack, and self-defense.
While disliking labels, Robert is probably best called a metaphysicist.
Somewhat of a recluse.
That's what they call me, too.
Something of a recluse.
Robert is rarely seen in public, and his services have never been for hire.
Never.
Robert values his privacy and prefers to use his abilities, helping others, and, of course, as search tools.
the author of Astral Dynamics was co-founder of the book Capturing the Aura He currently has several books and tutorials underway.
His worldwide website carries some of his earlier written work.
These are now being regularly updated with new materials relating to Robert's work and interests.
Born in England, he currently resides in the land down under near Sydney in sunny Australia, home of the year 2000 Olympics.
Of course, now we've got Salt Lake City going on.
So actually, he is in Australia, and we had to dial about three times to get what is a decent connection, which I hope we have.
We'll test that theory in a moment.
unidentified
We'll test that theory in a moment.
Now we take you back to the night of February 20th, 2002 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Well, that's more comfortable than it is for a lot of the people on the receiving side of this program right now, middle of the night here.
Yeah, I could imagine.
Robert, I did an entire program one night not very long ago for people who have been psychically attacked, in some cases by entities, Robert, with physical bruising, sometimes while sleeping, sometimes at other times of the day.
But I did an entire program simply talking to people who have been attacked by, they don't know what, entities or something.
What can you tell me about what might be out there?
Unfortunately, modern scientific materialistic thinking ends at the physical body, begins and ends there, and they don't recognize anything beyond the mind.
But yes, entity attacks from what I call negative spiritual beings, what I call negs, which covers any kind of entity, whether it's a demon or evil spirit or an earthbound spirit gone bad.
No, they're very real and they can do physical damage.
I've had quite a lot of physical damage myself over the years from attacks like that and I've helped a lot of people with similar problems.
Keep in mind you don't always get physical damage, but it can be a result in extreme cases.
I've researched the out-of-body environment quite thoroughly over many, many years and obviously spent a lot of time there.
And I took a fresh approach to all that and tried to work things out and discover for myself.
So these are my terms for them.
The lowest of the low order would be the types of entities that hang around new projectors and attempt to scare them and frighten them out of it.
Higher up, you get some nastier types.
And the stronger they are, the more rare they are, until you get to evil spirits and things which will actually attack people and harm them for their own reasons.
Well, again, is it really evenly split among those, the departed human spirits who are still here on earth and true representatives fairly close in the hierarchy to his majesty of the lower world or, you know, what?
No, it's not really like that, but you can take a classical Kabbalistic view of it, Of the angels versus demons, and as far as that goes, that seems to be fairly accurate.
They are particular orders of beings.
But beneath that, the majority of entities beneath that aren't demonic.
You have elemental type beings and that.
Most of them are indifferent and or harmless.
They have their own agenda and their own purposes.
But there are quite a significant amount of types out there that are predatory, they opportunistic feeders, they attack people and will attempt to attach to and corrupt people even.
I have talked, and I realize that you are an expert in this area, but I've talked to a lot of people about out-of-body.
I've had a couple of pretty wild little experiences myself.
So I know it's absolutely possible and it's real, but every single expert that I've ever asked about OBEs, one critical juncture that we always get to, Robert, is the following.
When you are out of your body, is there any additional danger to you in any way?
Could you encounter negative forces?
Could you perhaps even be subject more likely of a possession when you're out of your body?
Could something possess your body?
Or could something go wrong?
Or could something negative happen to you?
And every expert I've talked to on OBEs has always said, oh, absolutely not.
It is the safest thing in the world to do, that anything that goes wrong will take you right back to your body right away.
Well, I agree with them in part, but there are a few things that can go wrong that can injure you.
You can come across evil spirits and demons during an out-of-body experience, and you can get into trouble.
Not so much physically.
Keeping in mind, you never actually leave your physical body.
The original copy of your mind and your memory and your spirit always stay in the body.
During an out-of-body experience, your body generates a perfect energy copy of itself, a thinking copy, which is you.
And at the moment you have an OBE, there is something that I call the mind split occurs, when you split into two completely separate beings.
And this normally happens while you're asleep, but with training you can stay awake and have actually two of you functioning at the same time.
And so, as this is an energy copy, if you do get into trouble out of body, and I've tested this to the limits, if you do get out of trouble, if that projected copy of yours is damaged or destroyed, the original copies of you are safe inside your physical body.
They never leave it while you still live.
But you can suffer energy depletion, and if your astral body is injured, those injuries can translate, because you're talking about the causal level, into the physical body, and you can get strange marks, as you were saying earlier, people who are getting physical injuries on their bodies.
Yeah, I don't know what the percentage would be, but I would say I've dealt with hundreds and hundreds of people with problems from possession to heavy influence problems and that.
And it's probably 10% of the population suffer this sort of problem at some time or other.
I've got some figures of my own tonight that come, you know, again from the Vatican.
And they said that about 31% of those who ask, yeah, here it is, more than 30% of the people who request exorcisms have engaged in activities like witchcraft, according to the Paris Archdiocese.
And then they break it down from there.
23% suffer pathological problems, delirium, hallucinations, so forth.
15% suffering depression.
But a full 31% of those asking for exorcisms have been in the darker, you know, witchcraft, that sort of thing.
They could also be paying lip service To modern science, trying to justify it to find a bit of support for it.
But yes, in my experience, everybody who is under a psychic attack has some mental disorder because a psychic attack unhinges you, it is very distressing, and it will cause a temporary, usually, mental disturbance.
I've been working in this field for quite a long time, and in my late 20s, I came across people who had energy problems and possession.
I was working as a healer, so I tried to help them.
And I helped several people with obvious, I was talking about rolling around, thrashing on the floor type possession.
I've released several people like that, but I was immune from any attacks myself until the time I tried to exorcise a five-year-old boy who had horrific problems.
Frequent manifestations, occult manifestations around him.
I should say paranormal, not occult.
Lots of polegrass activity, ghostly shapes around the house, night terrors, the full bet learning disorders, speech disorders, lots of physical stuff as well.
Yes, look, this family was helping and trying everything to help their little boy.
The doctors gave them medications and things and called in psychiatrists and that because the symptoms of entity attack in a child are identical to child sexual abuse.
They have exactly the same symptoms psychologically.
If you take such a child to a doctor and explain the symptoms, he will automatically be reaching for the telephone to call in the psychologist and possibly the police to investigate.
So anyway, they've run out of options and they've come across me through some friends by word of mouth and I tried to help this child and I still have never really suffered a major possession attack myself and I tried everything I knew to release this child and it would not go.
I managed to release him temporarily for a few days at a time but it would always come back.
And we'll come back and we'll talk about the five-year-old boy and then apparently what happened to you.
Exorcism is a very, very dangerous business.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20, 2002.
Takes to the sky like a bird is lighting.
Who will be her lover?
What a life you've never seen.
Woman taken by the wind.
What a day she promised you ever.
Will you ever win?
She is like a cat in the dark and she is the darkness.
She knows her life like a sunscreen wind.
The sky is starless.
I am left, you've never seen I am
left, you've never seen I am
left, you've never seen And in the springtime of the year, when the trees are crowned with years, when the house shall look at me birds and you, and dressed in ribbons fear.
When I was cold, the breathless moon, in the moving of the night.
The shadows of the trees.
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
Yes, apart from the incredible pressure on my mind, it felt like I was in a vice from the waist down and my legs and hips were being crushed.
It was incredibly painful.
Almost drove me to the edge of insanity even.
And then it broke away and also I fought and I collapsed on the floor.
I had a blood nose and a big swelling in the lip and that, but I bet shaken up and I felt okay.
But to go on with what happened after that, leaving the boy behind, I failed then, obviously.
A few days later, I was sitting reading and my right hand just reached out and grabbed something and threw it against the wall on its own without my bidding.
And it shocked me.
And over the next few days, there were more and more losses of control.
My leg would reach out and kick something on its own.
And these were not jerky, like, nerved movements.
These were fluid movements.
My hand would reach out and grab a glass and throw it on the floor.
Well, this started getting worse, and it culminated in an episode on a rooftop car park.
We'd driven into town, a friend of mine, and his wife, and my wife, and we had the baby in the back of the car, my youngest son.
And I got out, and we were 10 stories up, and got the baby out of the car as usual.
And as soon as I picked up the baby, it took complete control of me, which is what I call virtual puppetry and marched me to the edge of the rooftop car park to make me throw the baby off and jump after it.
And I had no control.
It was like, you know how the car bogged when your wheels are just spinning?
You're trying to move and do things, but you're just not connecting with your body?
It's an amazing feeling.
But with my experience with OB, I tried everything.
I was no novice at that state, and I managed to regain control just at the last moment and very quickly put the baby down.
I think when you have a case where a perfectly normal person suddenly loses control and does something horrific, I think that's a very clear sign of a possession attack.
There was a case I heard of a few years ago where this was in Australia, where a man who was a good father, nice man, he was at home having dinner one day with his wife and his three daughters and his best friend there.
And he just walked outside, picked up an axe and killed everybody.
He killed his friend, his wife, his daughters, the dog, the cat, even the budgie.
And then he started on the neighbours.
He was of course brought down and locked up.
Police got there fairly quickly, thank God.
Now, he was taken to jail, locked up, and his mother was called, who was the only surviving relative.
And she went and saw her son, and she walked out of there, and she said, that is not my son.
My son does not have a green face and red eyes.
Thank you very much.
But a couple of days later, or the next day, that man reverted to normal and was left to face the consequences of what had happened.
And no amount of talking will get you out of that one.
Yes, I have done a lot of work on myself in that area.
Well, as you say, I've definitely considered that at great length, but the symptoms I experienced were so alien, so outside of me, that it wasn't me doing it.
And I've seen this in other people.
Very quickly, if somebody did use that as a defense, common sense would say that you could not release a person like that back into public again because the danger would always be there until they were completely exercised, which is a very difficult thing to do.
One of them is a lump in my mouth, which over a few days hardened to a grisly lump, granuloma-type lump.
Now, if you do some digging and read the Witch Hunter's Handbook and Old Vatican records, and there's millions of texts written on demonology around the world, you will see references to something called stigmata diabolis.
Now, my work has shown that when a significant evil entity attaches to somebody, it causes a physical manifestation, usually some kind of skin blemish.
Now, the most significant of these are the hard grisly lumps.
During the witch hunts, the primary method of identification was they would search the body for this stigmatodiabolis mark.
And according to them, you had to be able to push a needle into it and it would neither hurt the person and it wouldn't bleed.
So it had to be a grizzly type lump for that to occur.
Now, if that was found, you were nicked.
There was no defense.
But if they didn't find anything, you were released.
And there are several cases on record where people have been released after a physical examination during the witch trials.
I wouldn't say flawless because there are medical reasons why those sort of lumps and marks attach, appear on your body.
But you can tell with that sort of lump, if that appears very quickly, I mean almost instantly, at the time when you suffer something like a possession attack, then you could pretty well narrow it down to that is associated with what just happened, the psychic attack.
Now, the interesting thing is here, when I release myself from this entity, that lump, the instant I released myself, that lump burst inside my mouth into 100 pieces and bled and left a big hole inside my lip.
I've still got the scar there.
Wow.
So that shows you the relationship.
Now, I've tried to be in touch with the Vatican over this, and I've emailed them and written them letters, including letters written in Italian, trying to get some comments and feedback on this, because if you are doing demonic exorcisms, you have to be blind not to notice the relationship between these lumps and the actual possession.
During the time that you were possessed and you were doing these things, particularly with a child, Robert, I guess in your lucid, self-possessed moments, you would consider something like killing yourself.
I'm an honorable man, and that would be an honorable solution.
And I would figure then that I win by default because I've never harmed anybody.
And I'm a very gentle man, and it's just not in my nature to hurt anybody.
I couldn't stand to do that.
So that was a way out.
But what I did was I had no knowledge of what to do with this.
I'd been along to a few psychic healers and people who basically rolled their eyes back in the head and couldn't do anything for me.
They tell you to visualise some white light or something, but it doesn't work.
Not in a case like that.
So what I did in desperation, my third choice was to literally do what I believed as a mystic and to basically surrender my life to God for direction.
Because I figured logically, given all that I've done and all that I plan to do, including writing the books I've written and the ones I'll write in the future and helping people, my higher self, God, whatever you want to call it, would try and contact me with a message, some clue to help me.
That's logical.
So grabbing the bull by the horns, I walked out and it was actually a stormy night, a pouring down of rain, and I staggered through the wilderness for hours, bouncing off trees and things in the dark, knowing, and I was fully convinced that I would get a message.
And the message came, the scrap of rotting paper stuck to my leg after I fell into a ditch.
And there was writing on it, and I thought, yes, that's it.
Whatever it says on there, there's a message there.
I knew it.
So I took that home, had a look at it, and it told me to, it basically interpreting it, it was an advertisement for a tree nursery up in the hills, right out about 50 miles out of town, right in the bush we call it over here, in the wilderness in the hills.
Just try and imagine, in your mind, feeling something, knowing something is in your body, watching in a detached fashion from a few feet away as you walk to the top of a roof with a child in your arms.
Just try.
Try and imagine that.
unidentified
Try and imagine that.
Now we take you back to the night of February 20th, 2002 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Now, when this figure built up in the sky, it was big, I mean the size of a building.
Perfectly featured of this deity, which I'd encountered several months earlier.
Now, I needed water.
I wasn't, here you say, dying of thirst at the time.
I reckon I had about four hours because the Australian wilderness, when it's 125 degrees in the shade, is pretty unforgiving.
You haven't got long.
And I was very dry, but I was not hallucinating.
I know the difference.
Anyway, I needed water and I asked for help and a bow, an arrow appeared in the hands of this incredible being that was floating a few hundred yards above me.
And it shot an arrow made of cloud very slowly out of this bow.
And the arrow hung in the sky and the head and shoulders disappeared.
And I looked at the arrow, it was perfectly straight, had feathers, had the little triangular arrowhead on the end.
It was perfect.
And a little idea came to me and I thought, I wonder.
And I got my hand up there and I drew a line down the arrow and followed it down into the valley.
And about two miles below me, two, three miles below me in the valley, I looked carefully at the area it's pointing to and I noticed a very, very faint green line amongst all the brown.
To cut a long story short, I made it down that the big hill I was on and went to this place it was pointing to and there was a tiny little stream there about two feet across.
It was so well hidden in dense undergrowth, I actually fell in it before I found it.
Splash and I found the water I needed.
Now, there's more to it than that.
It's not just that I found water.
That was a very, very special place.
Just beside it was a little spring, which was wider, where the water was flowing in two directions.
And the water was coming down the side of the hill and bubbling up there at that place.
So it was a natural spring.
And for the remainder of my time there, I'd been there a couple of days, I camped about 100 yards uphill of that, directly in line with it, maybe 80 yards, and made a little bush camp there and slept there for a few days.
And that was the trick.
I was sleeping over the top of a running water stream, which has very, very strong positive energies.
And I woke up on the second last day I was there and still feeling okay.
I hadn't had any loss of control episodes.
I was just very tired, hungry and a bit of exposure.
And it was about 5 a.m. and I started to walk down towards the stream to have a wash and this thing that was in me left me.
This huge weight lifted off my shoulders and my mind, and the lump in my lip burst into a hundred pieces.
And I was spitting out bristle and blood, and I had this big hole in my lip.
And I felt wonderful, so light and just full of love for everything.
I just felt great.
And about 10 seconds later, I came under the most god-awful psychic attack of my life.
It dropped me to the floor, screaming, every muscle in my body working against itself.
By the way, Robert, a lot of our top physicists, one of whom I'm due to interview again very shortly, Dr. Michu Kaku, has lectured and lectures constantly about other dimensions.
Now, mainstream theoretical physics is beginning to really embrace the concept of multi-dimensional reality, as many as 11 or more dimensions.
Do you believe that these entities, these life forces, or at one time life forces, or whatever they are at various levels, reside in what we could loosely call another dimension, or is it something separate from even that?
Yes, I think there are lower dimensional levels, very negative levels where these things come from, which are below the normal spectrum of astral planes that you would normally project into.
But they can, with an effort and with a reason, you know, enter our realms and manifest here, even in the physical dimension.
I've seen them physically manifest over the years.
Very careful analysis of the case, the symptoms, what is happening to them.
And you keep in mind there is always some kind of mental disturbance presence.
All parapsychologists know this.
When a group of parapsychologists check out a place, they always take a trained observer to look for the mental disturbances and calculate the degree of them.
Yeah, but no, you can tell the difference, but only through analysis.
Some people are very clever.
You get some crazy people who may be schizophrenic who believe they're under a sort of attack like that and they will try and fake the symptoms.
It's a bit like hypochondriac illnesses.
They try and fake the symptoms to get attention.
I've had that many, many times, but normally if you're giving countermeasures and you're asking the right questions, now I know what happens in a real case.
If I ask the person to do this, I know what the result will be and I know what these symptoms are like.
So if I get the wrong answers back on some of these questions, I start to suspect something is not quite right.
And some of the answers I get back are, you know, you could get the condition out of a book somewhere.
There was recently, Robert, here in the States, I don't know if the news made it to Australia, there was a woman who allegedly took each one of her children in turn, put them in the bathtub, and drowned them.
This is so horrific that it would seem to be a candidate possibly for something like this.
In my opinion, a lot of people disagree with me, but suicides do not face anything different in the afterlife than a person who dies from natural means.
They have to face the consequence of their actions.
They may come to terms with what they've done, which may take a longer time.
They may have to spend a lot of time in an astral hospital Type area, structured areas where people sort of sleep.
It's not really a hospital, it's just an area where people go and they sort of rest.
And they often relive parts of their lives until they understand it.
But basically, that person would, you could say, they've blown a test in this life, failed to learn something, and they'd probably have to relive it again.
Yeah, I've visited friends who've died and things like that.
Yeah, very interesting areas.
They have a structure to them that appears to be like a hospital, but the people you see around, the doctors and nurses, are not real doctors and nurses.
You're talking about a very subjective realm here.
I see beneath that like a metaphysical spiritual area where people go to rest and to come to terms with their life.
And when they've done that, they move on into one of the spirit worlds.
How many different areas in astral travel are you aware of, personally aware of, areas that, and I know you're an expert in astral travel, how many areas are you aware of?
In other words, I guess I'm asking you about the nature of the other side, or at least as much of it as you understand?
Well, the traditional view of the astral planes being broken up into several major levers, and then each of those with multiple levels beneath them, seems fairly accurate for my explorations of it, especially if you look at the surface skins.
Anyway, if you look at the back cover, I had an artist take out of my mind what the sixth astral plane, as quite a high-level plane, actually looks like the surface skin of it.
But if you imagine an infinite space covered with intersecting grid lines, making an infinite number of squares, and each square contains a pattern.
In the centre is, imagine it's like, this is all blue, deep blue.
And in the centre of this, like floating there is a pattern which is like a huge lotus flower, a four-petal gold flower with like a violet coloured jewel in the centre, and some other little bits, but that's basically what it is, repeated over and over again.
Now that's a basic astral plane level.
Now if you penetrate that, you're in OVE state, you dive down and penetrate that, doesn't matter, wherever you penetrate the astral plane skin will take you to a particular area inside of it.
It is an amazing phenomenon and it's quite repeatable.
The astral hospital areas one, which I just spoke about.
Yeah, there are also different realms and some structured areas.
Some places are very wild and desolate.
These are like huge, they're like worlds, universes.
And travelling amongst them is very confusing.
I remember one I wrote off in my book, I came down into it after crossing through the surface skin, and I came into a world where I was up in the clouds looking down on an ocean.
There was islands and land around, and there were these beautiful strange-looking ships sailing with peculiar-looking people on them and all sorts of things like that.
It's just really weird.
I plan to attempt to map them one day in the future, which will take years and a number of projectors to do it.
I think it's a part of man's natural evolution, spiritual, intellectual evolution, to understand these things.
Out-of-body experience, for example, is a very natural thing that everybody does every night.
They're just not aware of it.
Normally a person just floats out of their body.
I've gone through people's houses and that, and I've seen people sleep in bed, and floating above their body a couple of feet away is their projected double, mimicking the sleeping position.
And again, you suggest that there's a mind split effect, that there is one essential copy of you, the original, we could think of it that way, I suppose.
Correct me if I'm wrong, and then a sort of a duplicate you that's able to travel outside the body in what we call an OBE.
Yes, and this is actually provable if you have the skills.
If you examine a lot of case histories on antibiotic spirits, you'll frequently come across people saying they're having symptoms of duality and bilocation, where they're aware of themselves being in their bedroom, the clock ticking on the wall, the dog snoring, but they're also aware of themselves being somewhere else.
But all authors today have continued the empty body theory, which started 100 odd years ago with early authors like Muldoon, where he considered that the actual spirit, your soul, your mind, left your body and your body was left empty, an empty shell.
And he considered that because your physical body is still alive, your ears were still working and therefore you would still hear things in the room around you.
But you have to look deeper to understand the nature of that.
And I discovered the mind split effect during some deep trance energy work I was doing where I am sitting in a chair in the evening and I'm raising a lot of energy.
I'm in a full delta level trance or deeper.
I'm very, very stable in a very non-dual state, you could say.
And I feel the out-of-body experience, you know, projection mechanism, I call it, kicking in.
I get full body vibrations, rapid heartbeat.
And I feel a projection occur, but then it stops.
And a lot of people experience this.
They feel the symptoms and then it stops.
And I'm still in my chair and I'm still meditating and doing things.
And actually, at the time, I was turning around inside my skin, using the etric body to move around inside my physical body.
And I was experimenting with astral sight where you can see through closed eyelids.
Just taking one moment to do this, my audience is probably bored with it.
I've had one OBE in my life.
It occurred in Paris.
I was on vacation in Paris, France, in bed next to my wife.
And in just one instant, I shot straight up out of the bed, and I was up above Paris.
I was aware that I was way up above the city of Paris to where I could just see a lot of France.
And I had this overwhelming, I can't even describe it, this joyous, all-knowing, but pure joy, and some word that's beyond joy.
And instantly, I went right back into my body.
I was so shaken up by the experience.
I woke up.
My wife told her all about it.
And I've never had anything like it in my life.
A couple of times, Robert, I have felt the approach of an OBE.
I have felt the vibration.
I felt the noise, the buzzing, I felt the beginning of being paralyzed, but in every instant, Robert, I've always, I'm a kind of a control freak, and I've yanked myself back, scared to death of it.
And the one I had in Paris, I had no choice.
I had no warning, I had no vibration, I had no anything.
It just happened.
It just, boom, happened like that.
And I couldn't control it.
It was wonderful, and it was frightening at the same time.
But in every other instant, I have stopped it cold because it's scary.
The reason why you remembered the first one is probably because of your excitement and that pure sense of freedom you get when you have that type of OBE.
It's a mind-blowing experience.
And I'd say the emotional content of that allowed you to remember it and probably jerked you back into your body as well.
If you don't have a strong emotional content in your mind when you re-enter your physical body, you normally won't remember it.
Your other cases, when you experience OBE-type symptoms like vibrations, heartbeat, hearing the rushing noises and that, and then it stops, you've probably got an OBE in progress at that time.
If you don't know what's happening, it is terrifying.
But knowledge replaces fear.
If you understand the mechanics of the process, which I focus on in my book, Astral Dynamics, it explains the process and takes a lot of the fear out of it if you understand what's happening.
And then you can go with it and experience out-of-body experiences.
So when you fly out or fly into the unknown, leaving your body, a lot of fear of the unknown is involved.
And you can only replace that by replacing it with knowledge, talking to other people, reading about it, finding out what these symptoms are exactly, what are the vibrations, why is my heart racing?
Your heart isn't racing.
If you hook yourself up to an ECG, you'll find your heart barely ripples.
But the heart chakra, one of your primary energy centers, which is normally involved with the OB exit, is very, very active during the actual generation of the projected double.
And it races, and it feels exactly like a rapid heartbeat, very, very fast.
Well, if you did that and you just shut your mind off to it and fell asleep, you probably had a successful OBE at that time, but lost the memory download of it.
When the projected double is generated and there are two of you, it comes out of the body, there is a problem with the physical brain of storing more than one memory at the same time.
The brain is used to storing linear life experiences.
When you have two sets or three sets, if the drain mind becomes active at the same time, it causes a lot of problems and you either get a mixture or what normally happens, the out-of-body experience side of the memory is just totally wiped.
So you can have multiple OBEs successfully, but you will lose the, if you lose the memory download, without the memory, you've never had one.
But if you have a successful OBE and experiment a little bit, I mean, the first one you had in Paris, if you actually look at that, that was quite unintimidating and harmless.
I mean, it was a wonderful thing, but there was none of this pre-warning stuff that we've discussed already that's pretty horrific as far as I'm concerned.
If you're in a state ready for OB, your physical body to sleep, you're in like a tranced state, sometimes your projected double will just bang, just go straight out there.
It's a different, it's a slightly higher level of projection.
I just, it's unimaginable for me to understand how you could be aware of it and control it and then use it to travel where you would, where you will, into other realms and dimensions Or even into space, I've heard that there really are no limitations once you're out of your body.
The best way to go about it is one step at a time.
You mentioned your sense of control there, which that was interfering with.
If you wake-induced an OBE, I mean, sat in a chair and deliberately put yourself in a state and used a technique to pull yourself out of your body, you're in control of the exit.
And I recommend to people when they do that, you obviously have OBE ability, even though you don't use it.
I recommend they work on that, use a technique like the rope technique in my book, pull themselves out of their body and stay out for just 10 seconds.
Have a quick look at their hands, watch them melt, look around the room and then dive back in your body shouting Geronimo.
Because if you don't have a strong memory, it's very hard to get those OBE memories past your physical memories.
And even your dream memories have more impression on the mind than an OBE memory.
But strong emotional content overcomes that.
I discovered that many years ago.
I was working at teaching myself wake-induced OBE.
And I remember coming out of my body, had a very easy exit, sitting across the room, thinking to myself, well that was quite easy, but all my memories of the OBEs I'd had before was very difficult exits.
A lot of sensations, very hard work indeed.
And then I thought to myself, I wonder if maybe I kept some strong emotion in my mind of what I was doing.
Maybe there's some kind of memory problem that my memories are not getting through to the brain where they can be stored at the conscious level, which are accessible to the conscious mind.
And anyway, I tried jumping back in, shouting Geronimo, and it worked.
And ever since then, it's easy to recall as long as you follow that basic instruction.
But short OBEs, like 10 seconds in your own lounge room, do them in the daytime.
You'll find them much less intimidating.
I've never had a person yet to complain of fear if they have a wake-induced OBE during the daytime.
That overcomes most problems.
Because if you go outside, it's sunny, the sun's shiny, you can see everywhere, there's no dark shadows.
And we all have a natural fear of the dark somewhere at the back of our mind.
And sunlight overcomes that and you feel much safer.
I suppose that would probably be true if you really are beginning to get a grasp or an understanding of what lies beyond and that definitely something does.
If what you do is really possible, then it should provable.
I don't know who said it, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and if one is actually able to leave their body, in essence avoiding airfares, as you've just pointed out, then you should be able to go to a place under strict controls that you have never been to and be able to describe that place in some great amount of detail that would take it past any possibility of chance.
In other words, you would be able to describe something at a great distance, let's say, and prove to the world that OBEs are absolutely real and you can leave your body and go elsewhere.
I don't get as much email as you, but I get 100 a day.
And yeah, that's not as easy as you would think.
I'm actually planning to run some experiments later this year to prove the validity of real-time OBE under some control circumstances.
Really?
Now, here the problem is, most people only have like a minute or two after they do awake-induced OBE into the real time zone, which is the area of the astral which is very close to the physical dimension.
It's like a reflection of physical reality as it happens.
Most people, that reality starts to erode.
It's a very fluid, subjective environment.
Now, so after most people get out, a minute or two later, the doors are in the wrong places and they leave their lounge room and they find they're in a park somewhere and everything gets very confusing.
It's what I call the Alice in Wonderland effect.
But with training and if you have enough energy, you can increase that time, the objective part of the OBE, to 10, 15, even 20 minutes.
It's very difficult to go beyond that.
But you could do some tests.
I would have to set them up myself because I know a lot of people have done tests on this in sleep labs.
I think even Robert Monroe took part in a set of experiments on this in a sleep lamp.
And they had a young girl there, a 12-year-old, who had like 10 times out of 10, 100% success.
She would project, she's rigged up to monitors and meters, and she would project out and go through the door into the room opposite and read the numbers on the meters.
He contributed enormously to our knowledge on these things.
But that sort of proof, to other scientists, they want to do it themselves.
So you have to continually prove these things.
And there do need to be more experiments on this.
But in my way of thinking, the biggest problem a person has trying to validate real-time out-of-body experience is that as soon as you pass your projected double for a solid object, you open yourself up to reality fluctuations.
Ghosting for a walk, for example.
Have you ever seen Ghost?
The movie Ghost with Patrick Swayze moves through that person in the hospital?
It causes the subjective, fluid environment you're in.
It causes fluctuations.
They're affected by the subconscious mind.
Your dream mind could be active at that time.
There's minds of other people dreaming around that area as well, which can affect it.
Any little thing could trigger an association in you, which will cause a little mental thought to arise, which can cause little problems.
And once you get a problem occurs and you start losing track of reality, like if you look to where your front door is and you find there's nothing there, it's just a wall, and your front door is now at the other end of the room, that causes a subconscious problem which causes your subconscious mind to start creating things to make up for the discrepancies.
And anyway, reality fluctuations occur a lot.
To do a fair test, you would have to have a projector in a large room, very large room, like a warehouse, and have a barrier up there that he couldn't see across and have him move around the barrier and check the readouts on the instruments or the cart or whatever they've got set up for him to see.
I plan to start up a little research institute here, maybe in about a year's time, and get some help and people in there involved in this to do just that.
So we'll ask that, and we'll go to phones when we get back.
And if you have questions about psychic attacks or defending yourself against them or whether you're being psychically attacked, this would be a great time to begin dialing, I would think.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 20, 2002.
Coast to Coast AM from February 20, 2002.
My heart is on fire.
My soul's like a wheel that's turning.
My love is alive.
My love is the light, yeah.
My love is the light, yeah.
Some velvet morning when I'm straight I'm gonna open up your gate And maybe tell you about Phaedra And how she gave me life
And how she made it in Some velvet morning when I'm straight Flowers growing on a hill Driving flies and dived for deals Learn from us very much
at us, but do not fit my name in the morning when I'm straight.
I'm gonna open up your gate and maybe tell you about Phaedra and how she gave me life and how she gave me.
You're listening to Arc Bells somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
All right, I'm going to ask you and everybody else to sort of understand as we go to the telephones here if the callers would be so kind as to ask their question and then pause for an answer because we do have a little bit of time differential talking to somebody on the other side of the world.
And if you don't pause like that, it will cause people to begin to speak over each other.
So I'm going to go to the phones now and we'll give it a shot here.
On my international line, you're on the air with Robert Bruce.
So you've been able to make practical use of his book.
In other words, you learned to do it yourself or you are in the process of doing that?
unidentified
Yeah, I've actually had a couple of successful daytime projections just by getting into a trance state and then using this technique.
I think you refer to it in the show as called the rope technique, where you imagine having a rope hanging from the ceiling above your head and just with your mental hands, you imagine pulling it.
And if you get a good grip on that with your mind, you can feel the effect in your body.
It's like you get a falling sensation in the pit of your stomach.
What it does, it makes use of your body awareness, which is a powerful tool.
You exteriorize your body awareness by not so much imagining, but feeling you have a pair of hands, disembodied hands.
So you could be laying there completely relaxed and pro-entranced, and you feel your hands coming up and you feel them climbing a rope.
And because you're exteriorizing your center of awareness, this has a great effect upon the projection mechanism and can trigger an OBE very effectively.
I guess in the course of a four-hour conversation, you're bound to lose it once between here and Australia.
That's not a bad deal.
Let's see if I can re-dial and what kind of connection we had to actually re-dial a couple of times prior to the show because we were getting very, very poor quality connections.
And we finally got one that worked for at least a few hours.
Yeah, the rope technique can be used to initiate a wake-induced OBE from scratch, or it can be used to, if you start getting symptoms, it can be used to finish it off, to get out of body in a conscious state.
She's the woman who's on trial now for drowning her five children in the bathtub.
And I wondered, because there seems to be quite a prevalence of postpartum depression, and Andrea Yates herself has been diagnosed reportedly with postpartum psychosis.
So I wondered, are women more likely to experience psychic attacks and possessions when they've recently given birth?
Yes, my research has shown that the pregnant women are more likely to start to come under psychic attack, entity attack, primarily because entities try and attach to the unborn child.
Yeah, it's horrific.
And with new babies around, they also try for the new baby and they use a process of conditioning, usually take several weeks to attach to them.
But the mother is very vulnerable at that time, and especially if she's suffering from depression, she could come under, she'd be more likely to come under a psychic attack or influence.
And in a case like that, where you have obviously a very strong one, it's possible that something took control of her and basically did it, you know, against her will.
unidentified
They said one of the, I guess her mother-in-law testified that she walked around in circles and scratched her head until clumps of hair came out.
I meant to ask you, and I want to ask you about mirrors.
There's always been something strange about mirrors, and there's been a lot of lore and, you know, a lot of mystery involving mirrors and gazing and staring at mirrors.
Regarding OBEs, astral projections, if you pass through a mirror or through a reflective substance like glass or through Reflective water.
It will tend to shift you into another reality.
It causes a major reality fluctuation.
But mirrors are well known to be used as magical devices as well, and they can be used by using you could reflect, say, a tarot card into a mirror and then you project into the reflection and you could connect with the realm associated with that tarot card and project into it.
I give a technique similar in my book called virtual reality projection where you set up a mirror with, say you get a favourite painting or a poster of a lovely beach scene, a place you'd like to be, and you reflect that into the mirror and then you make the OBE and you pass into the mirror and it will take you into a created realm that your subconscious mind creates as you enter it, which will be exactly like the picture you've entered.
Hold on, because I do want to hear the rest of this.
An X. Yes, well, Robert was mentioning physical manifestations of those possessed in this manner and those who are witches.
That was just a bit earlier.
We'll be right back.
I'm Art Bell from the High Desert.
It is.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20, 2002.
You, and the city's side tonight.
You, you, go higher and higher, baby.
Yes It's a living thing.
It's a terrible thing to lose.
It's a given thing to lose.
What a terrible thing to lose.
I can feel it coming in the air tonight.
Oh, no.
I've been waiting for a song.
We're all on.
Oh, no.
Oh, no.
I remember it.
How could I forget the first time the last time we ever met?
I know the reason why you gave me time to talk to the show.
But the pain is so rose.
So forget that you were me.
It ain't coming here tonight But I won't But I
I've been waiting for this moment for all my life Lord I've been waiting for this moment for all my life Lord Lord I've been waiting for this moment Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bells Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired February 20th, 2002.
Again, all the way back to Australia and Robert Bruce and this caller who was online.
Ma'am, you're back online again.
Please continue.
unidentified
All right.
As I was saying, it was after these people were evicted that I found pictures with an X mark through my son's face.
And it was shortly after that that the poltergeist attacks started happening.
And my son was in front of a mirror one day and it shattered.
And he told me the people's name was Stump.
And he told me he could see Mr. Stump's face in the mirror just before it shattered and he was smiling at him.
Now, every time he saw a man a few years ago that came up to him, he'd never seen him before, and he started telling him, is it still happening to you?
Is it still missing with your cars?
And my son didn't answer him because he was kind of startled because the man was telling him the things that were happening to him.
And he said, I can take it off you for $1,000.
And my son said, I don't have $1,000.
And the man said, when you want it taken off, I won't find you.
And now, every once in a while, when something bad happens to my son, he'll see that man standing looking at him.
And then, Mr. Bruce, I'm just wondering, I'm desperate if you could tell me any way, anything that would help us.
Have a look in your local area and see if you can find a good practicing shaman or a white witch or a magician or somebody experienced with these things.
If you can't, if you can get email access at all.
unidentified
I don't have a computer in my home, but I imagine I could go to the library or something.
Robert, I was honored to have interviewed many times a man named Father Malachi Martin, who was very close to the Vatican, very high up in the Vatican.
And he was an exorcist.
He has now passed away.
However, during the time that we interviewed, that we spoke, he spoke many times of the, in his opinion, increasing amount of evil here on earth.
And he was suggesting that, he was, not suggesting, but saying that in his view, for example, in the area in which he practiced in New York, evil had risen about 800% during the time that he's been watching it and participating and trying to rid people of it.
The psychic attacks, the influences, people don't recognize the source of the, you could say, evil behavior that that causes and the psychic and demonic attacks.
I mean, I started getting involved with this accidentally.
I was in a small town of like 12,000 people, and I had seven families approach me, and I'm not that sociable a person.
I didn't advertise, just through word of mouth, seven family with serious entity problems, including demonic possessions and public and that.
That's just in a small town.
I mean, this really is quite widespread, and it is growing.
Robert, your description of the noise and vibration associated with the beginning of an OBE really struck me.
When I was 16, I went through a period of pretty serious mental disturbance, I guess like a lot of 16-year-olds.
But I would have these attacks before I would drift off to sleep, and they scared the bejesus out of me.
I would have this buzzing in my head, almost like a, it felt like a rolling vibration.
It felt like a vibration, but it felt like it was rolling inside of my head.
And it felt like I was starting to come away from myself, but I would always get very scared and try to wake myself up.
But it felt like I was wondering if when you're having an OBE, if you feel like it comes from a specific region in your brain, like the top of your head, or if it's in the front, or that varies.
It depends upon which is your most active energy center part of your body.
With some people it's in the head.
With some people it's more often in the heart area.
But what you're describing there tells me that you have a natural OBE ability.
And I deal with cases like this every day.
I do a lot of consulting on the net with problems like this.
You don't really have a problem.
Possibly the OBEs you were having were contributing to your mental disturbance at the time by worrying you.
And also there's a lot of stuff going on in your body at that age, especially if you're having spontaneous type out-of-body experiences or near experiences.
It would be absolutely disconcerting to keep leaving without trying.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Robert Bruce in Australia.
Hi.
unidentified
Hello, Robert Nart.
This is Mike from Esmont, Virginia, listening to you on WLNI, The Line, out of Lynchburg.
Yes, sir.
I've seen the grid.
It was in a wake state with a big headache.
It was a white grid, very pure white, with some of the rectangles in it filled in.
I met an interdimensional being.
It was pure white.
It was coming from sleep into wakefulness.
I had just enough time, but I seemed to wake up so fast.
It seemed to have kissed me in my sleep and woken me up.
And it was there with its eyes closed.
It was a monkey head.
It was pure white, but it did not have the big hump on the back.
It was like a gorilla face.
And I saw it long enough, either with my astral body or my own eyes, I remember exactly.
I saw it long enough to be able to realize it had no teeth, it had like a wrinkled mouth, but it had definitely eight eyes.
And it opened up its eyes real fast, and it was startled, and it flew out.
And as I gained full wakefulness, it was right into the sunbeam shining on my head.
And one time when I left the body, which has all but happened to be fairly frequently, I mean fairly recently, I saw a fabric, like you were kind of talking about, of indescribable colors, and I had the feeling of indescribable jewelry, and the fabric was weaving itself at the same time.
That was the most frightening one because I also saw my arm disattached in a gray cloud, and then I couldn't breathe, and then I woke back up.
And it seems like when the body is leaving, the astral body is leaving, the regular body, there's like a balloon feeling like you're pulling on a rubber kind of thing.
And that's what I've seen so far.
And I used to have those paralyzing things, and I found that was my gateway into leaving my body, although I couldn't see myself leaving my body at first, was those horrible dreams, and I fought them instead and decided to hunt what was doing it to me.
All right, Robert, so obviously then, when you're in the same state, when you're in the same realm, these creatures or these entities, even the elemental ones, they understand very well that you can see them.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Robert Bruce in Australia.
Hello.
unidentified
Hi, good morning.
Oh, Robert, Art was mentioning Malachi Martin, who was an exorcist for the Catholic Church.
And as a matter of fact, AP had a story a couple days ago that the Pope himself has done three exorcisms in his tenure in office.
I have two questions.
One is, how do you view the Christian tradition of exorcism?
And my second question is, that lady that called from Tennessee, could you give us more, I would imagine, tips on how we can individually, let's say that we've had this experience and there is some attachment, what can a person do by himself to get rid of it?
Or do we have to necessarily go to an outside source like you told that lady?
Well, it seemed as though, and check me if I'm wrong, Robert, but short of crossing water, the way you advised her, for something as serious as the attachment she was describing, professional help would be a must, is that correct?
And Robert, I recently heard a person that does work like you do interviewed, and he called all spirits inhuman entities and said that all spirits were negative and there were no white witches.
And he lumped the tarot in with the Ouija board.
And I'm especially interested in the tarot, and I'm wondering if you would address that.
That would be a question a fundamentalist would certainly ask, because they would imagine that to be the case in many cases where you thought you had some warm, fuzzy, angelic presence, you're being tricked.
It's very much like real life, the way I look upon spirit entities, angels.
The proof is in the pudding.
You judge a person, a spirit, the same way you do a human being.
You do not automatically give them trust.
Trust is earned by their deeds and by their actions.
You learn about a person's integrity and then you start to trust them, as you would do any person you met on the street.
That is the best way of treating any entities.
But of course, if you meet up with an angel, they're quite a different sort of thing.
They come with a great presence.
Now, you can say that all these things are bad, but I mean, that's another fundamentalist type viewpoint, which is very, very limited, very narrow-focused.
It's focused upon a few words here and there in the Bible, and they are taking them literally, and therefore you cannot debate with people like that because they're not open-minded.