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Feb. 20, 2002 - Art Bell

02:48:29

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Robert Bruce - Astral Dynamics

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01:03:51

robert bruce

01:01:58

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bells Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest.
		I bid you all good evening and good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the entire world, all 24-time zones served by this radio program, Coast to Coast AM, emanating from a little tiny town called Trump, Nevada.
		I'm Ardel Latme here.
		Good to be talking to the denizens of the night.
		You know, I've been thinking about that a lot lately.
		There really is a very large difference between people who live in the nighttime.
		I mean, that's their awake time.
		That's their living time in the dark hours.
		And those who subsist during the day.
		One night we should have a talk about that.
		I wonder how many of the rest of you have thought about that.
		The difference between day people and night people is a big difference.
		Really big difference.
		Anyway, let's look at the world news such as it is.
		I'm criticized frequently for having topics that are a little dark, you know, but when I look at the news, the world news, it's really darker than most anything I ever talk about.
		The actual news.
		Our president is in Beijing.
		Actually, he's not.
		He's in Korea.
		I think he's in South Korea, I guess.
		At any rate, he's talking about Beijing.
		And he's basically saying that he wants to strike a deal.
		I guess he is there, huh?
		Let's see.
		President Bush was greeted at the Great Hall.
		And then the two went behind closed doors to try and knock out a deal as follows.
		China stops its selling nuclear stuff to nations that we're not real happy with.
		Our side of the deal is we lift sanctions so they can launch satellites.
		U.S. companies, TV satellites, radio satellites, whatever.
		The Chinese want to get into and have been in the satellite launching business and they want business.
		And so our end of the deal would be to allow them to suddenly launch whatever company's satellites they would like launched.
		In Israel, the situation continues to get worse.
		So many dead.
		After Israel lost 13 over the last week, they decided they're going to start, I guess, operating in some different way.
		22 Palestinians dead.
		One day of clashes.
		22 Palestinians, boy.
		The situation in the Middle East is just getting hotter and hotter and hotter as it was said it would.
		The ghastly discovery of, now they're saying, I heard on the news, it could be up to 300 bodies in the woods near Georgia crematorium has illustrated what consumer advocates say is a total lack of state regulation and oversight of the industry other than EPA.
		You know, the emissions that a crematorium would have.
		There's not a whole lot of control.
		There's a horrible story from Egypt.
		I don't know if you've been following this, but apparently, you know, I was talking to Ramona who said that people, I remember this in a lot of third world countries, we experienced this in China, communist China.
		A long train.
		Boy, was that a scary train ride.
		That really, it was the scariest train ride of our lives.
		Not exactly what you would call luxury accommodations.
		You know, you're on benches, you're with the other Chinese, and we were racing through the night, and I mean through the night, on this rickety old train with bathrooms that no American would ever go in toward the border area, but pretty deep in communist China.
		And there were red guards everywhere, and they watch you very closely, and you get a lot of very strong advice from the people who are leading the party about how you act and how you don't act when you're in China, because if you act the wrong way, they will not read you your rights.
		Believe me.
		But on a train apparently like that in Egypt, a fire started because somebody was cooking something or had something to keep them warm or whatever, and it was toward the front of the train.
		And somehow they didn't know that the fire was going on.
		They're doing 70, 80 miles an hour.
		And of course, the fire just raced to the rear of the train.
		Scores of people were trapped inside, some by window grills.
		And there are many dead, 370 dead, they think, right now.
		Horrible.
		You can imagine as the fire raced backwards what it must have been like.
		Not a good way to die.
		The Supreme Court today urged to keep mentally retarded killers off-state death rows by declaring those executions unconstitutionally cruel and unusual punishment.
		Case turns on whether the public's attitude about those executions may have changed since 1989 when the court upheld them by a 5-4 vote.
		How do you feel about that?
		It's a tight one for the court.
		It's going to be a tight one for everybody.
	What do you do with a mentally retarded person?
	Do you execute them?
	Do you really consider them responsible for their actions?
	And, you know, at what line of mental retardation or IQ level, where is that line?
	They have to establish, it seems, something because, you know, executing complete idiots, I don't think should be our national business.
	And so if I was a Supreme Court judge, I'd probably establish a line.
	You have to.
	It's hard to do.
	It's like below a certain age, a minor is a minor doesn't get a record as an adult, is not tried as an adult normally.
	And you need some kind of line like that, it seems to me, for those you would execute, and those you would say, no, they're just not here.
	Not all there, certainly not here.
	And so you don't kill somebody like that.
	Or do you?
	Supreme Court said, yes, 5-4 a lot of years ago.
	I wonder how people feel about that now.
	So you see, that's what I mean about the news.
	If you listen to the news, and I just read you the top stories airing right now, it's at least, it's much more gruesome than anything I typically discuss.
	Maybe not.
	Well, yes, every bit is scary, really, too.
	So you see, the real world isn't all that different in almost every respect from that which some people consider unreal.
	Now, here's a pretty interesting letter, and it's got a website backup.
	Hello, Mr. Bell.
	Oh, no, it's the next one.
	Hello, Mr. Bell.
	I lived in Ellensburg, meaning Ellensburg, Washington, home of the hole, for nearly three years, some number of years.
	Pretty wild place there.
	I truly believe that the holes exist.
	Notice I said holes, plural.
	See, in the course of routine socializing, at the time I resided in Ellensburg, I was made privy to some ancient lore about some kid at a beer party.
	Seems that a bunch of guys had been up at Lions Rock spotting some elk when he stumbled into and apparently into a very large hole.
	His buddy, also in pursuit of the elusive Peaberry bush, managed to stop when he heard screams from below his feet.
	Three people at the scene swear they could still hear his screams faintly after 30 seconds of the most heart-wrenching noise imaginable.
	There is now supposedly a cabin built over the hole, and the Indians in the area hold sacred rituals there, sacrificing occasional offerings to the great chief.
	Very hush-hush kind of stuff, methinks.
	Well, it sounded fishy to me, too.
	I never thought much about the deep hole thing until your recent Ellensburg shows.
	I thought I'd pass this along at the time.
	I figured it must be a vent.
	Perhaps it opened up during the last time Renier erupted or something like that.
	It's kind of sad to think about some guy dumping tires down a natural phenomena like that, though.
	Because everybody gets by the best way they know how.
	And then there's this, and we do have a photo on the website now for this.
	I don't know why I thought it interesting, but I did.
	From Wayne, Art just wanted to drop you a note about a very weird experience that just happened.
	I was on my southside porch when I heard some branches breaking.
	And I quickly ducked.
	You know, I thought something was going to fall on me.
	Something fell, all right.
	It was a three-liter bottle of, I think, soda.
	Not too strange, except there was nobody around, and it was frozen solid.
	Right now, it's 45 degrees outside, and haven't had freezing weather for weeks now.
	The bottle is heavy, and I don't think I could throw it 20 feet, much less have it smashed through an extremely large tree.
	So I called the police and asked them, please don't think I'm some kind of nut, and explained what had happened.
	They sent two officers over to look at the bottle.
	They did look at it and dropped it on the concrete and said it sure is frozen.
	And thanks for the story of the night.
	Now we have something to talk about and ask me to throw it away.
	End of story.
	Think I'll keep the bottle until I find out who sells this kind of pop.
	Good night.
	Wayne.
	And he sent along with it a picture that he took right away of the pop bottle on the ground, the frozen pop bottle.
	You know, you hear tree branches cracking above you.
	You know how it would sound, right?
	And here comes this bottle of frozen pop sailing down.
	Now, just how exactly does that happen anyway?
	Did that mean that somebody threw a bottle of pop out the window of an airplane or something?
	Possible, I suppose.
	Does that mean some freak weather condition sucked up a bottle of pop somewhere and in the upper atmosphere it froze solid as it would do?
	Then falling on poor Wayne.
	I have no idea.
	Either way, interesting.
	You pilots of small planes, you know, this is something I've always wondered if there's any pilots of small aircraft out there.
	How much of a temptation is it, you know, when you're up there flying around and you're by yourself and you could take a penny or a quarter or a bottle of pop and throw that sucker out the window.
	Now, you have to be aware, of course, that some poor schmoo down on the ground could get crowned by a bottle of frozen pop.
unidentified		Probably killed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even a penny, it's my understanding, would do some pretty significant damage at terminal velocity, right?
		I've always wondered about that.
		Any of you small plane pilots copped throwing anything out?
		Paper airplanes?
		Little messages?
		I don't know.
		Little things on parachutes?
		You ever throw anything out of a plane?
		Here is a pretty interesting story.
		Last night, I brought you the story about the Pope doing exorcisms, right?
		There are some statistics out tonight from Rome and the ZENIT News Agency, whatever that is.
		Exorcism requests often come from practitioners of the occult.
		23% have pathological problems, says Paris Archdiocese.
		Now listen to this.
		Very interesting.
		More than 30%, that's one-third of the people who request exorcisms, have engaged in activities like witchcraft.
		At last week's annual meeting of the French Catholic Exorcists, the Archdiocese outlined the profile of people who request the ritual.
		The Paris Archdiocesan Service said that among individuals who request exorcism, 31% engage in witchcraft, spiritualism, or related activities.
		23% they say percent suffer from pathological problems like delirium, hallucinations, obsessions, anxiety crisis, suicide attempts, or visions.
		18% suffer from family problems like divorce or sexual abuse.
		15% suffer depression linked to loneliness, abortion, chronic unemployment, false guilt feelings, death tendencies, similar trends.
		So basically, about a third of the people requesting exorcism, and this is, it is really interesting, have engaged in what the church regards as something that would put you in peril of your soul or of being possessed by some evil demon.
		31%.
		The rest, well, whatever.
		But one-third, that is, when you think about it, a pretty intriguing number.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of February 20th, 2002 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, this is kind of interesting.
		It comes from the Colombian capital and the Ananuba website.
		Please say up to 50 groups of human vampires are operating in the Colombian capital, Bogota.
		That's right.
		What did I say?
		Please say up to 50 groups of human vampires are operating in the Colombian capital of Bogota.
		They dress in black, drink brandy mixed with human blood.
		Oh my God.
		They usually obtain human blood from contacts in transfusion centers or buy animal blood from the city.
		Police say groups of vampires, though, have recently begun stopping passers-by at gunpoint and forcing them to bare their necks, presumably for some kind of donation.
		A police spokesperson said it's difficult to prosecute the groups because witnesses are just afraid to come forward.
		They don't want to talk about it.
		Victims are also worried people will think they're crazy if they report the attacks.
		The authorities say they can't do anything about the vampires without hard evidence.
		And Colombia's freedom of religion laws mean the police can't stop and search people just because they're dressed like vampires.
unidentified		Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I Interpol official Juan Prieto told newspaper El Spectator that he was worried that vampire numbers were increasing.
		Mr. Prieto said that vampires could be responsible for several unsolved murders in Bogota, adding, but we've got this problem proving it.
		So you've got to admit, it would be pretty weird indeed to be stopped on the street by, you know, at gunpoint or by whatever and forced to donate some precious bodily fluids.
unidentified		Hey you, that neck.
unidentified		Crane that neck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you are on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in Toronto.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Toronto, Canada.
		All right.
		Welcome to the program.
		Glad to have you.
unidentified		Right on, I got it through.
		Yep, go ahead.
		Yeah, I have a question.
		Okay.
		It's about Nels Hall.
		Yes.
		Yes.
		I was sitting talking to one of my friends about this.
		We were talking about Nell's Hall.
		You were talking about people who cannot die live on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unbreakable, yes.
unidentified		Unbreakable.
		That's the word I was looking for.
		Well, I was thinking, Nel, who found this hole, he turned around, he got electrocuted, like some kind of shock.
		It's like therapy for people who had cancer?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if the government would honor Mel's request, and it was in the contract he supposedly drew up with them when they took over the hole, Mel is to be buried by being tossed into the hole now.
		Oh, really?
		Oh, yes.
		Now, there are certain stories to indicate that things that are thrown into the hole do achieve some sort of immortality.
		Now, it may not be what Mel expects.
		There was a story of the dog that went in the hole and then it was dead and then came back out of the hole.
		And I would presume that Mel, putting that clause in the deal, is imagining that if he's tossed into the hole, he may live again.
		And he may live again.
		You never know.
		But what if it's like Night of the Living Dead?
		Where anything that's thrown in there does come back out again.
unidentified		Something like Pet Cemetery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Something like Pet Cemetery, yeah.
unidentified		No, I was talking about the movie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, oh, well, yeah, exactly.
		Like Pet Cemeteries are, you're correct.
		That's just what it's like.
		I mean, that's something Mel has to take into consideration before his final breath is drawn, whether he wants to modify that or not.
		A long climb up out of Mel's hole.
unidentified		Wouldn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe the impossible climb, but the dog made it after all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
		Travel the world and the seven seas.
		Everybody is looking for something.
		Some of them want to use you.
		Some of them want to get used by you.
		Some of them want to abuse you.
		Some of them want to be abused Sweet dreams are made of things.
		Who am I to disagree?
		Travel the world.
		Travel the world.
		Thanks.
		Thank you.
		The hollow is city street as beyond neons turned the dawn to day.
		We were too hot to think of sleeping.
		We had to get out before the magic got away.
		We alone with the night pain in the skies.
		Come with you and I to the morning light and night.
		So good girl, it's my turn.
		You and me on the top, ooh, ain't that long, baby There was enough, we've been burning Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bells Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired February 20, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just running with the night, that's what we do here.
		Chasing shadows.
		Good morning, everybody.
		It's great to be here.
		We've got Open Lines coming up the next segment and following that at the top of the hour.
		A very interesting gentleman.
		Very hard interview to get.
		Robert Bruce, who's pretty much a recluse.
		All the way down in Australia.
		It's a 16-hour difference from here.
		He's been talking to us about all sorts of things.
		OBEs, Putalini clairvoyance, healing, psychic attacks, all kinds of interesting things coming up at the top of the hour.
		But open lines, straight ahead.
		Stay right there.
unidentified		Stay right there.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
		Coast to Coast AM Alright, that's where I told you about the pump bottle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm checking right now, but probably.
		Yeah, here it is.
		Frozen bottle falls from the sky.
		Yeah, it's good.
		It's got the email there.
		And it's got the picture of the pump bottle.
		Frozen, too.
		You can tell it's frozen.
		And you can see the broken tree branches.
		Remember that movie about the Coke bottle that fell out of the sky?
		What the hell's the name of that?
		Something of the gods.
		Anyway.
unidentified		Looks like maybe it's an alien pop bottle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's see.
		What a way to begin.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in Morrison, Colorado, listening in on KHOW 6.30 a.m.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that'd be the monster in Denver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Well, my name's Tawasi, and I'm calling in tonight about Yucca Mountain.
unidentified		Is that very close to Peram?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you bet it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, I would imagine that a lot of people who would, yeah, The Gods Must Be Crazy, that was the name of that movie.
unidentified		The second one was better than the first.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Gods Must Be Crazy 2?
unidentified		Yeah, I do the second one.
unidentified		But about Nevada and Yucca Mountain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the repository, we call it here.
unidentified		Yeah, well, President Bush says that the Department of Energy researched the tectonic soundness of that area and says it's fine and safe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's because they live in Washington.
unidentified		Well, yeah.
unidentified		Well, so not even.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, if you talk to our senator, and by the way, I should be doing that.
		Senator Harry Reid, our Nevada senator, of our senators, I should interview him.
		Harry, I know Harry Reid a little bit.
		Harry, I'd love to have you on.
		I understand you're really pissed about this.
		Really upset is what I've heard.
		And I'd love to put Harry on the air and let him say a few words.
unidentified		Well, as one of your loyal listeners, I'll send him a letter and say, you know what?
		I would like to hear you on the Art Bell Show.
		And no, I'm not a constituent.
		Please go on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By all means.
		In fact, everybody is welcome to do that if you have any contact with Harry or can email him and do it.
		I'd love to have him on the show.
unidentified		I live in the Denver area, not so far from I-70.
unidentified		And there was a thing in today's paper saying that nuclear waste would go through the Denver area to get out there to Yucca Mountain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, brother, it's going to travel all over the place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, while I don't necessarily buy this, they say there's a greater danger in the transportation of it than there is in the storage of it.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that may or may not be true.
		There probably is a danger in the transporting of it, I would imagine.
		But then we have to be these good custodians of this stuff for like hundreds of thousands of years.
unidentified		Right.
		I tend not to be as concerned about the storage of it as the shipment just because I don't live in Nevada.
		But the point of my calling is this.
		About three weeks back, two weeks back, my mother passed away of cancer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
unidentified		It's a sad thing, but it happens to the best of us.
		So cancer is pretty much a man-made disease.
		And I see nuclear waste as being one of the largest contributors to cancer in our country.
		So it's just really toxic stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know it's extremely toxic, but the fact of the matter is they have stored it, and they do check, and background radiation levels near these storage facilities are not any higher than they are anywhere else.
unidentified		Well, here in Colorado, we have Rocky Flats.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They say.
		I wanted to add in there, they say.
		Now, yeah, I know about Rocky Flats, and of course up in Washington State, too, we've got a pretty big facility.
unidentified		Well, last year, they found one of the cords from a nuclear bomb that they hadn't accounted for and didn't really know where it was.
		They found it out there in Rocky Flats.
		Now, these guys at the Department of Energy are really smart.
		How do you lose a great fruit-sized piece of nuclear waste?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know, and I just appreciate your call, sir.
		I don't know.
		That's a big horror to think about.
		Hey, Fred!
unidentified		One of them's gone!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How big?
		It's one of the big 100 kilotars.
		One of the really dirty ones, too.
		I don't know how you lose one of those.
		Anyway, I'm glad it's found.
		Wester of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Yes.
unidentified		Yes, you got a suitcase?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do I have a suitcase?
unidentified		Yo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At least, yes.
unidentified		Yeah, well, Yucca Mountain, I'm not a constituent either.
unidentified		I'm in San Diego, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		But no way.
		I'm sorry.
		Nuclear waste, nuclear power, the whole thing is the scourge of mankind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you live near a nuclear power plant.
		In a lot of ways, actually.
		Wait, wait.
		In a lot of ways.
		Now, they're going to not begin storing this stuff, I understand, if it's approved until like 2010 or something like that.
		But in a lot of ways, I think that a nuclear power plant is of a more immediate danger, say, to you and your area than the storage would be at Yucca Mountain to me.
unidentified		And in reference to the show the other night when the gentleman was speaking of a nuclear power plant right next to the freeway where a truck could be driven up, that's where I live.
		And I will not name the location due to the security nature of the...
		Yes, they do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
		I appreciate the call.
		Thank you.
		we have created this problem for ourselves in this country with nuclear power plants and uh...
		imagine the cost now of what it So, first time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Hello.
		Hi.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Philadelphia, PA.
		Okay.
		I was calling about the down in with the body thing, with all the bodies they're finding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Georgia.
unidentified		Yeah, down there.
unidentified		I heard on the news up here that some of the bodies have been found mummified.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mummified?
unidentified		Yeah, not all of them, but some of them have been mummified in some way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my, my.
		I had not heard that.
		Where did you get that one?
unidentified		I think it was on the local news.
		Now, this was yesterday.
		You had asked yesterday if anybody knew why.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, I was looking for motive, of course.
		I mean, now they're talking about as many as 300 bodies, right?
		And all I've heard is the guy said that the equipment was broken or something.
		I don't buy that at all.
unidentified		No, no.
unidentified		Not with the whole mummification thing or whatever, that if they, in fact, were doing that down there, why would they all of a sudden release a story and then pull it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't have the slightest idea, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You saw this one on TV news or heard it on radio?
unidentified		Yeah, it was just on the local news.
		And this was yesterday, the 11 o'clock news, and I haven't heard anything about it since.
		That's pretty bizarre.
		Maybe some of your other listeners had heard something about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, mummification requires a very specific process, doesn't it?
unidentified		Yeah, and it takes a while to do, I would think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'll see what I can find out.
		I don't know a thing about it, sir.
		thank you all right i have not heard the story but if someone I don't know a lot about mummification, but it was done, of course, by the Egyptians and others with great success.
		So I wonder if they strictly meant that or something else.
		Anybody with any information on that is more than welcome to send it along to my email addresses.
		Those would be artbell at mindspring.com or artbell at aol.com.
		Mummification.
		That's strange.
		Wildcard line, you are on the air.
		Hello.
		Now you're on the air.
		I'm sorry.
		I didn't have the pot up.
		You're on the air now.
unidentified		Oh, sorry.
		I was talking to myself for a second.
		It's about Robert from L.A. I heard the same story what he was talking about, about the mummification.
		It was on the news.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah, what happens when a body or any living animal, it rots, what happens is a tissue, it can melt off, it could basically rot off the bones, but sometimes the skin actually seals and cues itself.
		You've seen that in pictures where there are bodies and it sort of red, it seals.
		That's what they're talking about by mummification.
		The rotting process stopped on some of the bodies.
		That's basically what happened.
		It's gruesome.
		Could you imagine 200 bodies laying there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm now hearing almost 300.
		It seems impossible.
		And the only explanation offered so far is, well, the machine wasn't working or something.
		No, that's got to be a long period of time.
		I don't buy that for one second.
		Something else is going on with this.
		Something big is behind this story.
unidentified		I think he was doing it as a big haunted house.
		It never worked out yet.
		But as I was calling, basically, I was calling to tell you about the soda pop thing that's going through the tree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		That was an interdimensional soda pop bottle, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An interdimensional soda pop bottle.
unidentified		Yeah, I have proof.
unidentified		Complete proof.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what is your proof?
unidentified		Now look.
		The guy, he says he doesn't recognize the label, right?
		He won't find it.
		Why?
		Because in our timeline, in our dimension, they make two-liter bottles.
		You read, it said three liters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can't read it.
unidentified		You said three liters.
		That isn't in our dimension.
		We have two liters in our dimension.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen the bottle?
unidentified		No, I haven't.
unidentified		But if I knew where it was, I'd buy it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I appreciate the call, sir.
		An interdimensional bottle.
		This picture looks like it could be blown up easily.
		I can't quite read what it says on the bottle, but there is obviously a label on it.
		Now, I cannot quite read it.
		Somebody will blow it up very quickly and find out what it is.
		Weird story.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I have a prediction.
		Am I too late?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're never too late, but you're too late to have it officially recorded on our list, but you're welcome to make it, and just you're doing that on the air obviously will register it in the minds of many.
unidentified		All right, yeah, to get through.
unidentified		I think that China is going to take over Taiwan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'd say that's a pretty good guess.
unidentified		Yeah, someone already predicted it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think I'm sure that one of the predictions involved that the Chinese want Taiwan.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, and they're going to seize this opportunity when we're doing other things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And as far as they are concerned, Taiwan belongs to them.
		And actually, in a lot of ways, they have a fair case.
		It'd be interesting to see what the U.S. would do if they decided to do it.
unidentified		I have a question for you.
unidentified		Is there a correlation between Native American heritage and people predicting things, or is that just something I've noticed?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, there is a rich tradition of Native American prediction.
		Certainly, just as we have, as Christians have, a very rich tradition.
		Boy, I get in trouble for that, right?
		And records of predictions that are made in the Bible.
		Native Americans have them, and every religion on the face of the earth has these predictions and visions from some of the early religious leaders that began these various religions.
		So, yes.
		East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Arist.
		Hi.
		First, I want to ask you about the Mothman Prophecies.
		Have you seen that movie?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I have not yet seen it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I interviewed the man who wrote The Mothman Prophecies.
unidentified		Well, you should go see the movie.
		I thought it was really good.
		But Sunday night, I was listening to a station out of Cincinnati.
		I don't know what the call letters was, but it was Bill Bea Shears, I believe.
		And for two hours straight, he took calls from people around Cincinnati who were seeing UFOs.
		And apparently, there was a big flap.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there was a big flap, a gigantic flap.
		People were saying, in some cases, they were so low.
		One man said that he could run out and almost touch one of these so-called UFOs.
		And they were all over the place.
		A gigantic flap going on.
		No question about it.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
unidentified		I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I missed you mentioning that because I haven't mentioned it until just now, so you didn't miss it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wow.
unidentified		Well, yeah, it was amazing.
unidentified		I mean, caller after caller after caller, seeing large triangular objects hovering and many different UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		It is really interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you're absolutely right.
		I appreciate the call, sir, and I'm sure we'll get a formal report on all of that.
		But it was a big flap.
		Big flap the other night in that area.
		Many, many people.
		Wonder why we call them flaps.
		I wonder where that term originated.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		I'm around the Colorado River K-Tox.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Earlier we were talking about somebody that was mentally retarded and why they should or should not be executed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Supreme Court had a split, very split decision on it, voting to execute them was a story.
		And then I sort of talked about what do we do about this?
		How do we handle it?
unidentified		Okay, do you remember in Costa Mesa, there's a hospital off of Harbor Boulevard?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay, that hospital is for basically mentally retarded people, period.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay, and most people don't realize how dangerous the people that are in there are.
unidentified		Why?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your...
unidentified		The point is the lower the intelligence of the individual, the less they are able to restrain from example.
unidentified		In that hospital, many rapes, many attacks on people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is true.
unidentified		Okay, that's the reason.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		the reason for what?
unidentified		The reason for what is that these mentally retarded people, as you drop the points, these people become extremely dangerous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I already got that.
		The whole controversy surrounds not the fact that we keep severely mentally retarded people in facilities, but whether or not you execute them for capital crimes and whether they are responsible.
		And at what level, at what IQ level is the cutoff point going to be established if there is going to be one established, I think there ought to be.
		You don't execute people who are simply totally not responsible for their actions because, as I said earlier, they're not here.
		They're not here.
		They're there.
		They're somewhere else.
		they're just not here.
		And if our society I'm I think there are limits, just like there are limits of the execution of youth.
		We don't execute really young people.
		Although I must say, we've been executing younger and younger.
		Well, I guess they wait until they're 21, but I'm talking about imposing light or death sentences on people who commit capital crimes.
		We treat youth differently, and I would think we would treat the severely mentally retarded differently as well.
		Where you draw the line, that's what those incredible men have to decide at the U.S. Supreme Court.
		Can you imagine considering and rendering judgment on such issues?
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, hi.
		I was wanting to let you know, this is kind of a prediction.
		KFYI, Phoenix, 550 News Talk Radio.
		Yes, sir.
		Anyway, Jesus has said the cup of iniquity is full.
		And this is preordained that this call got through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very quickly, sir.
unidentified		Okay, very quickly.
		And he will withhold judgment until March 10th.
		Look for a very large earthquake to hit the Spokane, Washington area March 10th.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I've got that down.
		Hope it doesn't happen.
		It's right in line with the prediction of many others regarding the middle of March.
		A sort of a window for something big to occur, probably somewhere along the west coast.
		I'm Art Bell from the high desert.
		You're listening to Coast to Coast AM.
		We're about to traverse the entire globe, go to Australia for a few hours and talk with somebody named Robert Bruce.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
		I've got to ride by like the wind to be free again.
		And I've got such a long way to go.
		So forward to go take it to the border of Mexico.
		Oh.
		All of times have come here but they've gone See just don't feel the rain Not do the winds on the way up Baby, Take my hand.
		Don't feel the reaper.
		We'll be able to fly.
		Don't feel the reaper.
		Baby, I'm the man.
		La, la, la, la, la.
		La, la, la, la, la, la.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed, it is.
		Top of the morning to you, everybody, or whatever time of day it is, wherever you are.
		For over 25 years, Robert Bruce has actively explored mechanics, the energetics and dynamics of all things considered paranormal, especially OBE, the human energy body, kundalini, clairvoyance, healing, occult criminality, countermeasures, psychic attack, and self-defense.
		While disliking labels, Robert is probably best called a metaphysicist.
		Somewhat of a recluse.
		That's what they call me, too.
		Something of a recluse.
		Robert is rarely seen in public, and his services have never been for hire.
		Never.
		Robert values his privacy and prefers to use his abilities, helping others, and, of course, as search tools.
		the author of Astral Dynamics was co-founder of the book Capturing the Aura He currently has several books and tutorials underway.
		His worldwide website carries some of his earlier written work.
		These are now being regularly updated with new materials relating to Robert's work and interests.
		Born in England, he currently resides in the land down under near Sydney in sunny Australia, home of the year 2000 Olympics.
		Of course, now we've got Salt Lake City going on.
		So actually, he is in Australia, and we had to dial about three times to get what is a decent connection, which I hope we have.
		We'll test that theory in a moment.
unidentified		We'll test that theory in a moment.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of February 20th, 2002 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we have two major subjects that we're going to cover with Robert tonight.
		One concerns astral dynamics, and one concerns his new book, which I want to begin with.
		I want to do things a little bit backwards, Practical Psychic Self-Defense.
		And first of all, from, I think, are you in Perth, Australia, Robert?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, roundabout that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Roundabout that way.
unidentified		Okay.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, near the Black Stump, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, welcome to the program.
		It certainly is great to have you.
		I guess it's, what, middle of the day there or morning or something?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, great to talk to you too, mate.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		It's about 3 p.m. here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About 3 in the afternoon.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, that's more comfortable than it is for a lot of the people on the receiving side of this program right now, middle of the night here.
		Yeah, I could imagine.
		Robert, I did an entire program one night not very long ago for people who have been psychically attacked, in some cases by entities, Robert, with physical bruising, sometimes while sleeping, sometimes at other times of the day.
		But I did an entire program simply talking to people who have been attacked by, they don't know what, entities or something.
		What can you tell me about what might be out there?
		Is this real?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is very real.
		Unfortunately, modern scientific materialistic thinking ends at the physical body, begins and ends there, and they don't recognize anything beyond the mind.
		But yes, entity attacks from what I call negative spiritual beings, what I call negs, which covers any kind of entity, whether it's a demon or evil spirit or an earthbound spirit gone bad.
		No, they're very real and they can do physical damage.
		I've had quite a lot of physical damage myself over the years from attacks like that and I've helped a lot of people with similar problems.
		Keep in mind you don't always get physical damage, but it can be a result in extreme cases.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		News in the last couple of days has also been fascinating.
		There's a Vatican spokesperson saying that the Pope has been doing exorcisms.
		It was an amazing story, Robert, in which young women were spitting out parts of transistor radios.
		I don't know whether you saw the report or not.
		Just amazing stories from the Vatican of our current Pope doing exorcisms, one as recently, I think they said, as in September.
		Had you read that?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		No, I haven't, but I have some contacts at the Vatican, particularly with Monsignor Baldusi, a demonologist there.
		And yes, I'm aware the Pope does exorcisms, and there's been quite a bit written about them, people vomiting feathers, coal, fire, and some.
		But this is typical demonic manifestations.
		They're quite predictable, really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Can you talk to what are the various sorts of things out there?
		I mean, what are we dealing with, Robert?
		Are these really demons as the Catholic Church considers them, representatives of Lucifer inhabiting the bodies of human beings for periods of time?
		Are these the minions of his?
		Are these just sort of spirits that are here on earth, maybe of the once departed?
		Maybe they were lousy personalities in life and now they're lousy personalities in death.
		I mean, what are we dealing with?
unidentified		All of the above art.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		All of that.
		Yes, there are demons.
		If you believe in angels' art, by default, you really believe in demons because they're opposite numbers of each other.
		And if you look into the Kabbalah, you will see the hierarchical rankings of the opposing forces.
		You could say angels on one side, demons on the other.
		But beneath the demonic ranking, there's a lot of different types of evil spirits.
		What I call astral wildlife are the lowest of the low, fairly harmless types that just try and scare you and may do a bit of poltergeist activity.
		Above that, you get some quite nasty evil spirits, astral snakes and spiders.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, wait a minute.
		Let's go back for a second to astral wildlife.
		I love that term.
		the natural wildlife.
unidentified		Is that sort of like...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I sort of understand it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Astral wildlife, does that mean some lower-level spirits?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yeah, it does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry I'm struggling with this because I want to understand, is it like animals?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		In a way, yes.
		A lot of them seem animalistic.
		Keep in mind, these are my terms for them.
		I've researched the out-of-body environment quite thoroughly over many, many years and obviously spent a lot of time there.
		And I took a fresh approach to all that and tried to work things out and discover for myself.
		So these are my terms for them.
		The lowest of the low order would be the types of entities that hang around new projectors and attempt to scare them and frighten them out of it.
		Higher up, you get some nastier types.
		And the stronger they are, the more rare they are, until you get to evil spirits and things which will actually attack people and harm them for their own reasons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, is it really evenly split among those, the departed human spirits who are still here on earth and true representatives fairly close in the hierarchy to his majesty of the lower world or, you know, what?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		No, it's not really like that, but you can take a classical Kabbalistic view of it, Of the angels versus demons, and as far as that goes, that seems to be fairly accurate.
		They are particular orders of beings.
		But beneath that, the majority of entities beneath that aren't demonic.
		You have elemental type beings and that.
		Most of them are indifferent and or harmless.
		They have their own agenda and their own purposes.
		But there are quite a significant amount of types out there that are predatory, they opportunistic feeders, they attack people and will attempt to attach to and corrupt people even.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Opportunistic feeders.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, a lot of the lower types especially seem to feed off the life energy, the life force of human beings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard it said frequently they feed particularly off fear, which they generate, I imagine, rather easily.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well fear is not so much generating a type of energy.
		You could say they feed off fear metaphorically, but they actually feed off your life force.
		They initiate fear in a person by scaring a person.
		And what that does, that when you terrify somebody, their natural inbuilt shields start to drop.
		It's like how if you have an animal that is absolutely terrified, say a dog, it will roll over and expose its throat and belly.
		That's a sort of submission.
		It's like it opens you right up and then they can gain further access to your mind and your energy body for whatever they want to do.
		Depending on the type, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have an OBE question for you.
		And I'm going to set it up this way, Robert.
		I have talked, and I realize that you are an expert in this area, but I've talked to a lot of people about out-of-body.
		I've had a couple of pretty wild little experiences myself.
		So I know it's absolutely possible and it's real, but every single expert that I've ever asked about OBEs, one critical juncture that we always get to, Robert, is the following.
		When you are out of your body, is there any additional danger to you in any way?
		Could you encounter negative forces?
		Could you perhaps even be subject more likely of a possession when you're out of your body?
		Could something possess your body?
		Or could something go wrong?
		Or could something negative happen to you?
		And every expert I've talked to on OBEs has always said, oh, absolutely not.
		It is the safest thing in the world to do, that anything that goes wrong will take you right back to your body right away.
		Nothing evil can happen.
		You cannot be possessed.
		What do you say?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Well, I agree with them in part, but there are a few things that can go wrong that can injure you.
		You can come across evil spirits and demons during an out-of-body experience, and you can get into trouble.
		Not so much physically.
		Keeping in mind, you never actually leave your physical body.
		The original copy of your mind and your memory and your spirit always stay in the body.
		During an out-of-body experience, your body generates a perfect energy copy of itself, a thinking copy, which is you.
		And at the moment you have an OBE, there is something that I call the mind split occurs, when you split into two completely separate beings.
		And this normally happens while you're asleep, but with training you can stay awake and have actually two of you functioning at the same time.
		And so, as this is an energy copy, if you do get into trouble out of body, and I've tested this to the limits, if you do get out of trouble, if that projected copy of yours is damaged or destroyed, the original copies of you are safe inside your physical body.
		They never leave it while you still live.
		But you can suffer energy depletion, and if your astral body is injured, those injuries can translate, because you're talking about the causal level, into the physical body, and you can get strange marks, as you were saying earlier, people who are getting physical injuries on their bodies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Robert, I had a whole night of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, four solid hours of people being attacked either psychically or actually physically.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		It is far more common than people believe.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		It is generally put down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sorry, we've got a little delay here, so we've got to be careful.
		But my comment was, obviously, it's a lot more common than people would say, lest I could not sit here with jammed lines for four hours.
		It was amazing.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yeah, it is.
		Yeah, I don't know what the percentage would be, but I would say I've dealt with hundreds and hundreds of people with problems from possession to heavy influence problems and that.
		And it's probably 10% of the population suffer this sort of problem at some time or other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's very interesting, 10%.
		I've got some figures of my own tonight that come, you know, again from the Vatican.
		And they said that about 31% of those who ask, yeah, here it is, more than 30% of the people who request exorcisms have engaged in activities like witchcraft, according to the Paris Archdiocese.
		And then they break it down from there.
		23% suffer pathological problems, delirium, hallucinations, so forth.
		15% suffering depression.
		But a full 31% of those asking for exorcisms have been in the darker, you know, witchcraft, that sort of thing.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that would be pretty accurate.
		If you look at the other percentage, though, I would like to point out here, which comes first, the chicken or the egg?
		If you've ever suffered a psychic assault, and a good psychic attack will usually last about a month, that causes depression.
		It can cause hallucinations.
		It can cause all of the problems you talked about there.
		Psychological disorders, stress, trauma, all of that can be caused by the actual psychic attack or entity attack.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying their percentages may be skewed because some of the other, those 23%, may be really under psychic attack.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Very possibly.
		They could also be paying lip service To modern science, trying to justify it to find a bit of support for it.
		But yes, in my experience, everybody who is under a psychic attack has some mental disorder because a psychic attack unhinges you, it is very distressing, and it will cause a temporary, usually, mental disturbance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you been psychically attacked yourself?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		I've had regular psychic attacks, including demonic attacks, for the last 15 years.
		Up until that was since the time I became possessed, as I mentioned to your producer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you didn't mention it to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean, possessed?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a long story.
		I've been working in this field for quite a long time, and in my late 20s, I came across people who had energy problems and possession.
		I was working as a healer, so I tried to help them.
		And I helped several people with obvious, I was talking about rolling around, thrashing on the floor type possession.
		I've released several people like that, but I was immune from any attacks myself until the time I tried to exorcise a five-year-old boy who had horrific problems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where was this?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		This was in Australia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Australia, a five-year-old boy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of problems was he having?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Frequent manifestations, occult manifestations around him.
		I should say paranormal, not occult.
		Lots of polegrass activity, ghostly shapes around the house, night terrors, the full bet learning disorders, speech disorders, lots of physical stuff as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, brother, so I take it that you were sort of a last resort.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People would do a lot of other things, wouldn't they, before they'd come to somebody like you?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, look, this family was helping and trying everything to help their little boy.
		The doctors gave them medications and things and called in psychiatrists and that because the symptoms of entity attack in a child are identical to child sexual abuse.
		They have exactly the same symptoms psychologically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can imagine they would.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Because that is what's happening.
		If you take such a child to a doctor and explain the symptoms, he will automatically be reaching for the telephone to call in the psychologist and possibly the police to investigate.
		So anyway, they've run out of options and they've come across me through some friends by word of mouth and I tried to help this child and I still have never really suffered a major possession attack myself and I tried everything I knew to release this child and it would not go.
		I managed to release him temporarily for a few days at a time but it would always come back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you identify what it was that was inhabiting this child?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it was a demon, yeah.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		It was a demonic hierarchy, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, very nasty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A high-level demon then?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it was, yeah.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		The boy was totally enamored by it and kept calling it back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have any idea why it picked this boy?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		No, this is very hard to work out.
		You can look at karma and things like that, anything you like.
		I mean, this boy came from a fairly clean living household, you know, non-drinking, non-smoking.
		It's normal people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I want to get the whole story.
		We're at the half-hour mark, so hold on.
		Stay right there.
		And we'll come back and we'll talk about the five-year-old boy and then apparently what happened to you.
		Exorcism is a very, very dangerous business.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20, 2002.
		Takes to the sky like a bird is lighting.
		Who will be her lover?
		What a life you've never seen.
		Woman taken by the wind.
		What a day she promised you ever.
		Will you ever win?
		She is like a cat in the dark and she is the darkness.
		She knows her life like a sunscreen wind.
		The sky is starless.
		I am left, you've never seen I am
		left, you've never seen I am
		left, you've never seen And in the springtime of the year, when the trees are crowned with years, when the house shall look at me birds and you, and dressed in ribbons fear.
		When I was cold, the breathless moon, in the moving of the night.
		The shadows of the trees.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, and on the other side of the world, we're speaking with Robert Bruce, who's written a couple of very interesting books.
		One about astral dynamics and the other about to be out on the market, Practical Psychic Self-Defense.
		He's way down in Australia.
		And he's an expert in these matters.
		Quite obviously, we're In the middle of a story about a five-year-old child.
		We'll get back to that in a moment.
		Just a brief bit of news for you: the sun is going berserk again.
		And I mean, really, berserk.
		You should see the line of M-class flares that are occurring, and they're talking about the possibility of a large X-class flare.
		So when we should be on the downside of things, the star that gives us all life is really going crazy up there right now.
unidentified		Thank you.
		We're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coast to Coast AM Once again, to the other side of the world in Australia, Robert Bruce, Robert, welcome back.
		This five-year-old child that you were asked to assist probably as a last-ditch kind of effort.
		How long?
		Describe what you did and tell me how long it took.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Well, what I normally do in a case like that is I put myself into a full trance and connect with my higher self.
		And normally I just give healing at that level and it removes anything.
		That was back then.
		What I did, I tried everything I could to shift this thing out of this child.
		And there was a lot of heavy manifestations in the room while I was doing this.
		His mother was watching.
		And including, you know, the child's eyes glowed red and that sort of thing.
		In desperation, I was running out of ideas and things to do.
		I did something very, very foolish.
		I told this thing, basically, take me and leave the child.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Exactly, which seems to be an important issue, especially with demons or higher order entities.
		And the instant I did that, it struck me.
		In a way, it hit me in the mouth, in the lower right lip, paralyzed me.
		And where it hit me is quite important.
		It swelled up very, very quickly, and I had a lump there the size of a walnut.
		And I was paralyzed and tortured is the only way I could describe it for about probably 15 minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In what manner?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you describe what you felt?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, apart from the incredible pressure on my mind, it felt like I was in a vice from the waist down and my legs and hips were being crushed.
		It was incredibly painful.
		Almost drove me to the edge of insanity even.
		And then it broke away and also I fought and I collapsed on the floor.
		I had a blood nose and a big swelling in the lip and that, but I bet shaken up and I felt okay.
		But to go on with what happened after that, leaving the boy behind, I failed then, obviously.
		A few days later, I was sitting reading and my right hand just reached out and grabbed something and threw it against the wall on its own without my bidding.
		And it shocked me.
		And over the next few days, there were more and more losses of control.
		My leg would reach out and kick something on its own.
		And these were not jerky, like, nerved movements.
		These were fluid movements.
		My hand would reach out and grab a glass and throw it on the floor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God, that's weird.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and I couldn't feel my hand doing it.
		It just happened so quickly.
		I resorted to even tying my hand to my side for a while, but that didn't work.
		Now, these episodes of loss of control continued over the weeks to build up.
		And I started having blackouts, well, not really blackouts.
		I was aware of what I was doing, but it was like I was pushed out of my body.
		And with my experience at OBE, I know I was like in an out-of-body state, and I was watching myself do things and say things that I had no control of.
		And to what was happening, this entity was learning how to control me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is that like, Robert, to feel your arm or your leg or some part of your body do something you're not willing it and telling it to do?
		I mean, something completely, totally alien.
		What does that feel like?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		It's freaky.
		It doesn't hurt.
		There's no pressure.
		I mean, this is not, you could say, not like a psychic attack when you've got feelings of dread and cold shivers everywhere.
		Your hand just goes out and does something very quickly.
		But you were completely aware that you didn't intend to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then you just left wondering what the hell just happened.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, exactly.
		Well, this started getting worse, and it culminated in an episode on a rooftop car park.
		We'd driven into town, a friend of mine, and his wife, and my wife, and we had the baby in the back of the car, my youngest son.
		And I got out, and we were 10 stories up, and got the baby out of the car as usual.
		And as soon as I picked up the baby, it took complete control of me, which is what I call virtual puppetry and marched me to the edge of the rooftop car park to make me throw the baby off and jump after it.
		And I had no control.
		It was like, you know how the car bogged when your wheels are just spinning?
		You're trying to move and do things, but you're just not connecting with your body?
		It's an amazing feeling.
		But with my experience with OB, I tried everything.
		I was no novice at that state, and I managed to regain control just at the last moment and very quickly put the baby down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, that's going to cause me to immediately ask you about something, Robert.
		That's an incredible story you just told.
		Now, I have, in this country, Story after story after story of people doing things like that.
		Inexplicable things that are generally criminal and axe murderers and people who eat other people and throw people out of windows, you name it.
		And I've always called them head shakers because there's simply no rational way to understand why they did what they did.
		I wonder if what you're talking about here in some percentage of those cases or maybe even a high percentage of those cases is what's really at work.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, definitely.
		I think when you have a case where a perfectly normal person suddenly loses control and does something horrific, I think that's a very clear sign of a possession attack.
		There was a case I heard of a few years ago where this was in Australia, where a man who was a good father, nice man, he was at home having dinner one day with his wife and his three daughters and his best friend there.
		And he just walked outside, picked up an axe and killed everybody.
		He killed his friend, his wife, his daughters, the dog, the cat, even the budgie.
		And then he started on the neighbours.
		He was of course brought down and locked up.
		Police got there fairly quickly, thank God.
		Now, he was taken to jail, locked up, and his mother was called, who was the only surviving relative.
		And she went and saw her son, and she walked out of there, and she said, that is not my son.
		My son does not have a green face and red eyes.
		Thank you very much.
		But a couple of days later, or the next day, that man reverted to normal and was left to face the consequences of what had happened.
		And no amount of talking will get you out of that one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I take it in Australia you do not have the death penalty, do you?
		No.
		Here we do, Robert.
		And if people are convicted of a capital crime, particularly of that heinous nature, they're likely going to lose their own life because of it.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		That would be a kind thing to do to a person who'd done something like that, because how could you live with that?
		You have the memory of doing that in your head.
		It's not like a blackout, usually.
		You usually have a memory of it.
		But yes, it's very unfair.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess if what you're saying is true is true in a percentage of the cases, then yes, you would say it is unfair.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Of course, it's unprovable by modern science.
		They don't recognize it.
		Anything paranormal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wonder if that's about to change.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		I think it will do in the near future, yes, as our understanding increases.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, of course, people are going to say that's going to lead to the devil made me do it defense, you know.
		And it certainly would.
		Those people would be right, but maybe you're right too.
		It's not exactly the devil, but a demonic influence of some sort.
		You're really sure, in your own mind, Robert, I mean, to take a child in your arms to the edge of a precipice to throw it off.
		You know, have you ever tossed around in your own mind your own sanity?
		In other words, that at that moment it was not some sort of evil entity that was doing this to you, but rather some form of your own insanity?
		I've got to ask about that.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have done a lot of work on myself in that area.
		Well, as you say, I've definitely considered that at great length, but the symptoms I experienced were so alien, so outside of me, that it wasn't me doing it.
		And I've seen this in other people.
		Very quickly, if somebody did use that as a defense, common sense would say that you could not release a person like that back into public again because the danger would always be there until they were completely exercised, which is a very difficult thing to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is the danger always there with you?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		With me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		No, I defeated this thing and released myself from it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, how did you do that?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Right, what I did was there is no cure for something like that.
		I had the choice.
		I could either kill myself, have myself locked up, or find another way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you consider those things?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I did, definitely, yeah.
		Yeah.
		And, no, it's a hell of a thing.
		I mean, you know, literally a hell of a thing.
		You know you are losing control and you can't do anything about it.
		And you know what it is, but nobody will recognise it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, as you walked to the precipice with that child in your arms, you were aware of what you were doing, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You could see.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		You stopped aware of what was happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You could see what you were doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You could feel what you were doing, but you couldn't stop what you were doing.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you how it was.
		I wasn't looking through my eyes.
		It was like I was standing about four feet behind and to the side, watching myself doing it from a distance, third person.
		I wasn't inside my body.
		Wow.
		It was an OBE type experience.
		And it's just spinning your wheels.
		Nothing will work.
		It's a total puppetry type state.
		But releasing myself was how I discovered a lot of the things I put into my new book, Countermeasures in Practical Psyche Self-Defense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you are convinced that the entity that was driving you to the edge with this child was the same one that entered you from that five-year-old?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That never really left, I guess, huh?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, there are certain indicators.
		One of them is a lump in my mouth, which over a few days hardened to a grisly lump, granuloma-type lump.
		Now, if you do some digging and read the Witch Hunter's Handbook and Old Vatican records, and there's millions of texts written on demonology around the world, you will see references to something called stigmata diabolis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		The devil's mark.
		Now, my work has shown that when a significant evil entity attaches to somebody, it causes a physical manifestation, usually some kind of skin blemish.
		Now, the most significant of these are the hard grisly lumps.
		During the witch hunts, the primary method of identification was they would search the body for this stigmatodiabolis mark.
		And according to them, you had to be able to push a needle into it and it would neither hurt the person and it wouldn't bleed.
		So it had to be a grizzly type lump for that to occur.
		Now, if that was found, you were nicked.
		There was no defense.
		But if they didn't find anything, you were released.
		And there are several cases on record where people have been released after a physical examination during the witch trials.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many innocent people during the witch trials were burned or executed or killed?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's hard to say.
		It was a very involved thing.
		There was a lot of money-making going on and human nature and property stealing and stuff like that.
		So the basic tenement to what they were searching for, there is some truth to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, there really were and are witches.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Oh, definitely witches, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're saying there is a physical way to attack...
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't say flawless because there are medical reasons why those sort of lumps and marks attach, appear on your body.
		But you can tell with that sort of lump, if that appears very quickly, I mean almost instantly, at the time when you suffer something like a possession attack, then you could pretty well narrow it down to that is associated with what just happened, the psychic attack.
		Now, the interesting thing is here, when I release myself from this entity, that lump, the instant I released myself, that lump burst inside my mouth into 100 pieces and bled and left a big hole inside my lip.
		I've still got the scar there.
		Wow.
		So that shows you the relationship.
		Now, I've tried to be in touch with the Vatican over this, and I've emailed them and written them letters, including letters written in Italian, trying to get some comments and feedback on this, because if you are doing demonic exorcisms, you have to be blind not to notice the relationship between these lumps and the actual possession.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		During the time that you were possessed and you were doing these things, particularly with a child, Robert, I guess in your lucid, self-possessed moments, you would consider something like killing yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How close did you come?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Very close.
		I'm an honorable man, and that would be an honorable solution.
		And I would figure then that I win by default because I've never harmed anybody.
		And I'm a very gentle man, and it's just not in my nature to hurt anybody.
		I couldn't stand to do that.
		So that was a way out.
		But what I did was I had no knowledge of what to do with this.
		I'd been along to a few psychic healers and people who basically rolled their eyes back in the head and couldn't do anything for me.
		They tell you to visualise some white light or something, but it doesn't work.
		Not in a case like that.
		So what I did in desperation, my third choice was to literally do what I believed as a mystic and to basically surrender my life to God for direction.
		Because I figured logically, given all that I've done and all that I plan to do, including writing the books I've written and the ones I'll write in the future and helping people, my higher self, God, whatever you want to call it, would try and contact me with a message, some clue to help me.
		That's logical.
		So grabbing the bull by the horns, I walked out and it was actually a stormy night, a pouring down of rain, and I staggered through the wilderness for hours, bouncing off trees and things in the dark, knowing, and I was fully convinced that I would get a message.
		And the message came, the scrap of rotting paper stuck to my leg after I fell into a ditch.
		And there was writing on it, and I thought, yes, that's it.
		Whatever it says on there, there's a message there.
		I knew it.
		So I took that home, had a look at it, and it told me to, it basically interpreting it, it was an advertisement for a tree nursery up in the hills, right out about 50 miles out of town, right in the bush we call it over here, in the wilderness in the hills.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Very deserted area.
		And so I said, right, that's where I'm going.
		And I packed up a swag and a couple of basics, I've got a blanket on that, and I headed out there.
		And I stayed out there in the hills for a week or so, starving, no food, just sleeping on the floor.
		And halfway through that, I nearly died of thirst.
		I'd ran out of water and I was miles from anywhere.
		I'd never make it home.
		And I got another little bit of guidance.
		I was sitting up on a hill waiting to die, very dry.
		And I wrote a few notes to my family and figured I'd be found one day because I wasn't taking that thing back with me.
		I was going to die first.
		I was absolutely committed to that.
		And I sort of said a prayer and said, hey, I could use a bit of help down here.
		And the most curious thing happened.
		It was a cloudless day, brilliant blue sky, and a tiny little cloud appeared a few hundred yards from me up above the valley.
		This got bigger and bigger and bigger until it formed this, you know, a sizable little cloud.
		And this formed into the shape of a person of a head and shoulders.
		Very, very clear, very distinct.
		And this was a deity I'd encountered several months earlier when I'd raised my kundalini.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're certain you were not hallucinating because of the lack.
		Listen, we'll pick it up right here.
		We've got the top of the hour coming up, so relax and we'll pick it up at that point.
		There are going to be those who will say it was a delusion Induced by dehydration, the lack of water.
		But others will know better.
unidentified		To some degree, it just depends on what you believe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This really is the story, isn't it?
		Robert Bruce, from way, way down south in Australia, is my guest.
		You're in the nighttime with Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		Every time I do all the cry, all the dealers.
		I'm waiting with you, isn't my time to go home.
		But I tell myself that I'm doing right.
		There's nothing left to do at night.
		Let's go crazy on you.
		Crazy on you.
		Let me go crazy, crazy on you.
		Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bells Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired February 20th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just try and imagine, in your mind, feeling something, knowing something is in your body, watching in a detached fashion from a few feet away as you walk to the top of a roof with a child in your arms.
		Just try.
		Try and imagine that.
unidentified		Try and imagine that.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of February 20th, 2002 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back now to Australia and Robert Bruce.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Robert, please continue.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Right, well, keep in mind first that this happened about 12 years ago or more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		And I've learned a lot since then.
		It's been a big learning curve.
		Now, when this figure built up in the sky, it was big, I mean the size of a building.
		Perfectly featured of this deity, which I'd encountered several months earlier.
		Now, I needed water.
		I wasn't, here you say, dying of thirst at the time.
		I reckon I had about four hours because the Australian wilderness, when it's 125 degrees in the shade, is pretty unforgiving.
		You haven't got long.
		And I was very dry, but I was not hallucinating.
		I know the difference.
		Anyway, I needed water and I asked for help and a bow, an arrow appeared in the hands of this incredible being that was floating a few hundred yards above me.
		And it shot an arrow made of cloud very slowly out of this bow.
		And the arrow hung in the sky and the head and shoulders disappeared.
		And I looked at the arrow, it was perfectly straight, had feathers, had the little triangular arrowhead on the end.
		It was perfect.
		And a little idea came to me and I thought, I wonder.
		And I got my hand up there and I drew a line down the arrow and followed it down into the valley.
		And about two miles below me, two, three miles below me in the valley, I looked carefully at the area it's pointing to and I noticed a very, very faint green line amongst all the brown.
		To cut a long story short, I made it down that the big hill I was on and went to this place it was pointing to and there was a tiny little stream there about two feet across.
		It was so well hidden in dense undergrowth, I actually fell in it before I found it.
		Splash and I found the water I needed.
		Now, there's more to it than that.
		It's not just that I found water.
		That was a very, very special place.
		Just beside it was a little spring, which was wider, where the water was flowing in two directions.
		And the water was coming down the side of the hill and bubbling up there at that place.
		So it was a natural spring.
		And for the remainder of my time there, I'd been there a couple of days, I camped about 100 yards uphill of that, directly in line with it, maybe 80 yards, and made a little bush camp there and slept there for a few days.
		And that was the trick.
		I was sleeping over the top of a running water stream, which has very, very strong positive energies.
		And I woke up on the second last day I was there and still feeling okay.
		I hadn't had any loss of control episodes.
		I was just very tired, hungry and a bit of exposure.
		And it was about 5 a.m. and I started to walk down towards the stream to have a wash and this thing that was in me left me.
		This huge weight lifted off my shoulders and my mind, and the lump in my lip burst into a hundred pieces.
		And I was spitting out bristle and blood, and I had this big hole in my lip.
		And I felt wonderful, so light and just full of love for everything.
		I just felt great.
		And about 10 seconds later, I came under the most god-awful psychic attack of my life.
		It dropped me to the floor, screaming, every muscle in my body working against itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was back or trying to get back or doing what?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		It was trying to get back at me.
		It was attacking me full force.
		I got quite a bit of physical injuries out of that.
		I got a couple of hernias, nearly bit my lip off, a couple of ruptured discs in the spine.
		Pretty nasty.
		I talk about it calmly now, but at the time you can imagine it was pretty horrific.
		That lasted for probably 15, 20 seconds, and then it left me completely because the daylight and that, it couldn't get back into me again.
		It was out.
		Evicted exercise, broken away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where do you think it went?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		I have no idea where it calls home, some dark, black, dimensional backwater.
		I don't know where it went, but it was definitely thrown out of me and, I'd say, severely damaged drains of energy.
		It couldn't get back into me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, Robert, a lot of our top physicists, one of whom I'm due to interview again very shortly, Dr. Michu Kaku, has lectured and lectures constantly about other dimensions.
		Now, mainstream theoretical physics is beginning to really embrace the concept of multi-dimensional reality, as many as 11 or more dimensions.
		Do you believe that these entities, these life forces, or at one time life forces, or whatever they are at various levels, reside in what we could loosely call another dimension, or is it something separate from even that?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I think there are lower dimensional levels, very negative levels where these things come from, which are below the normal spectrum of astral planes that you would normally project into.
		But they can, with an effort and with a reason, you know, enter our realms and manifest here, even in the physical dimension.
		I've seen them physically manifest over the years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have never taken any money for helping anybody?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		No.
		I've never been able to do that, Arnie.
		It would be like me taking money from my children for loving them.
		It's just so compassionate man, and I just can't bring myself to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'm beginning to get a lot of questions by computer.
		And from Alberta, Canada.
		How can Robert and can Robert distinguish between demonic possession and psychiatric illness like schizophrenia and other psychosises?
		In other words, if you are in the presence of somebody displaying these remarkably similar maladies, can you distinguish, Robert, between the two?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you can, but only for analysis.
		Very careful analysis of the case, the symptoms, what is happening to them.
		And you keep in mind there is always some kind of mental disturbance presence.
		All parapsychologists know this.
		When a group of parapsychologists check out a place, they always take a trained observer to look for the mental disturbances and calculate the degree of them.
		Yeah, but no, you can tell the difference, but only through analysis.
		Some people are very clever.
		You get some crazy people who may be schizophrenic who believe they're under a sort of attack like that and they will try and fake the symptoms.
		It's a bit like hypochondriac illnesses.
		They try and fake the symptoms to get attention.
		I've had that many, many times, but normally if you're giving countermeasures and you're asking the right questions, now I know what happens in a real case.
		If I ask the person to do this, I know what the result will be and I know what these symptoms are like.
		So if I get the wrong answers back on some of these questions, I start to suspect something is not quite right.
		And some of the answers I get back are, you know, you could get the condition out of a book somewhere.
		But there's a lot of things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was recently, Robert, here in the States, I don't know if the news made it to Australia, there was a woman who allegedly took each one of her children in turn, put them in the bathtub, and drowned them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is so horrific that it would seem to be a candidate possibly for something like this.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		It could be, yes.
		It would depend upon the case.
		You have to analyze it carefully.
		You cannot say carte blanche that everybody that does something like that is possessed.
		I mean, some people just go mad and they do these terrible things for their own crazy reasons.
		But, you know, there is a case for that.
		This must happen in a significant number of cases.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Robert, let me ask you very quickly.
		You did consider suicide before you read yourself of this.
		What are, in your opinion, what are the cosmic consequences or the karmic consequences of suicide?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Really, I'm just guessing at that.
		In my opinion, a lot of people disagree with me, but suicides do not face anything different in the afterlife than a person who dies from natural means.
		They have to face the consequence of their actions.
		They may come to terms with what they've done, which may take a longer time.
		They may have to spend a lot of time in an astral hospital Type area, structured areas where people sort of sleep.
		It's not really a hospital, it's just an area where people go and they sort of rest.
		And they often relive parts of their lives until they understand it.
		But basically, that person would, you could say, they've blown a test in this life, failed to learn something, and they'd probably have to relive it again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you, in astral travel, seen such areas?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have.
		I've been into them several times.
		Yeah, I've visited friends who've died and things like that.
		Yeah, very interesting areas.
		They have a structure to them that appears to be like a hospital, but the people you see around, the doctors and nurses, are not real doctors and nurses.
		You're talking about a very subjective realm here.
		I see beneath that like a metaphysical spiritual area where people go to rest and to come to terms with their life.
		And when they've done that, they move on into one of the spirit worlds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many different areas in astral travel are you aware of, personally aware of, areas that, and I know you're an expert in astral travel, how many areas are you aware of?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, I guess I'm asking you about the nature of the other side, or at least as much of it as you understand?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Well, the traditional view of the astral planes being broken up into several major levers, and then each of those with multiple levels beneath them, seems fairly accurate for my explorations of it, especially if you look at the surface skins.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Have you got a copy of my book, Handy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do not.
		I'm sorry to say.
		I would like to have a copy of your book, though, very much.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Daloni's got four copies, I said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, if you look at the back cover, I had an artist take out of my mind what the sixth astral plane, as quite a high-level plane, actually looks like the surface skin of it.
		But if you imagine an infinite space covered with intersecting grid lines, making an infinite number of squares, and each square contains a pattern.
		In the centre is, imagine it's like, this is all blue, deep blue.
		And in the centre of this, like floating there is a pattern which is like a huge lotus flower, a four-petal gold flower with like a violet coloured jewel in the centre, and some other little bits, but that's basically what it is, repeated over and over again.
		Now that's a basic astral plane level.
		Now if you penetrate that, you're in OVE state, you dive down and penetrate that, doesn't matter, wherever you penetrate the astral plane skin will take you to a particular area inside of it.
		It is an amazing phenomenon and it's quite repeatable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, can you describe any of those areas?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		I've done so in my book, a few of them.
		The astral hospital areas one, which I just spoke about.
		Yeah, there are also different realms and some structured areas.
		Some places are very wild and desolate.
		These are like huge, they're like worlds, universes.
		And travelling amongst them is very confusing.
		I remember one I wrote off in my book, I came down into it after crossing through the surface skin, and I came into a world where I was up in the clouds looking down on an ocean.
		There was islands and land around, and there were these beautiful strange-looking ships sailing with peculiar-looking people on them and all sorts of things like that.
		It's just really weird.
		I plan to attempt to map them one day in the future, which will take years and a number of projectors to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that we are meant to understand this much of the nature of what we call the other side?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		I think so, yes.
		I think it's a part of man's natural evolution, spiritual, intellectual evolution, to understand these things.
		Out-of-body experience, for example, is a very natural thing that everybody does every night.
		They're just not aware of it.
		Normally a person just floats out of their body.
		I've gone through people's houses and that, and I've seen people sleep in bed, and floating above their body a couple of feet away is their projected double, mimicking the sleeping position.
		That's what most people do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And again, you suggest that there's a mind split effect, that there is one essential copy of you, the original, we could think of it that way, I suppose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct me if I'm wrong, and then a sort of a duplicate you that's able to travel outside the body in what we call an OBE.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and this is actually provable if you have the skills.
		If you examine a lot of case histories on antibiotic spirits, you'll frequently come across people saying they're having symptoms of duality and bilocation, where they're aware of themselves being in their bedroom, the clock ticking on the wall, the dog snoring, but they're also aware of themselves being somewhere else.
		But all authors today have continued the empty body theory, which started 100 odd years ago with early authors like Muldoon, where he considered that the actual spirit, your soul, your mind, left your body and your body was left empty, an empty shell.
		And he considered that because your physical body is still alive, your ears were still working and therefore you would still hear things in the room around you.
		But you have to look deeper to understand the nature of that.
		And I discovered the mind split effect during some deep trance energy work I was doing where I am sitting in a chair in the evening and I'm raising a lot of energy.
		I'm in a full delta level trance or deeper.
		I'm very, very stable in a very non-dual state, you could say.
		And I feel the out-of-body experience, you know, projection mechanism, I call it, kicking in.
		I get full body vibrations, rapid heartbeat.
		And I feel a projection occur, but then it stops.
		And a lot of people experience this.
		They feel the symptoms and then it stops.
		And I'm still in my chair and I'm still meditating and doing things.
		And actually, at the time, I was turning around inside my skin, using the etric body to move around inside my physical body.
		And I was experimenting with astral sight where you can see through closed eyelids.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold that thought.
		We'll be right back.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		Actually, the devil has made a very recent trip to Georgia.
		Hasn't he?
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
		He was in a bag because he was way behind.
		He was willing to make a deal.
		When he came across this young man sewing on a fiddle and playing it hot.
		And the devil jumped up on a hickory dump and said, boy, let me tell you what.
		I guess you didn't know it, but I'm a fiddle player too.
		And if you care to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you.
		Now, you play pretty good fiddle, boy, but give the devil his due.
		I'll bet a fiddle of gold against your soul, because I think I'm better than you.
		The boy said, my name's Johnny, and it might be a sin.
		But I'll take your bet, you're going to regret, because I'm the best it's ever been.
		Johnny, Rosen up your poet, play your fiddle hard.
		Cause hell broke loose in Georgia and the devil deals at heart.
		And if you win, you get this shiny fiddle made of gold.
		But if you lose, the devil gets your soul.
		You got me running for another mind.
		You got me thinking that I'm wasting my time.
		Don't bring me down.
		No, no, no, no, no.
		I tell you what's wrong before I get up and go.
		Don't bring me down.
		You miss me and with your weird secret.
		I'm telling you, it's gotta be the end.
		Don't bring me down.
		No, no, no, no, no.
		I'll tell you one more before I get up the foot.
		Don't bring me down.
		Don't bring me down!
		Don't let me down.
		What happened to the girl I used to know?
		You let your mind and somewhere down the road.
		Don't let me down.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Robert Bruce's book is one coming up is Practical Psychic Self-Defense.
		So we'll get into that aspect of it.
		In other words, what you can do if you're under psychic attack of some sort.
		What you can do to protect yourself.
		What you can do to stop whatever it is that's after you.
		That is, if you believe in these sorts of things.
		And I know many of you don't.
		Many of the rest of you know damn well that's true.
		Stay right where you are.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music A map of what other dimensions are like.
		Where people reside who leave this life.
		Where others troll, so to speak, without sure would be an interesting item to have and to contemplate what it's like on the other side.
		That would be a worthy project, I would think, Robert, trying to map the other side.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, or at least to map the astral planes, which is an enormous area with many, many different levels.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are the astral planes actually, in fact, where people go when they die, or is it just sort of one stopping off point on the journey after they pass?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		It's just one point.
		There are areas, as I said, astral hospital rest type areas.
		But most people move on into one of the spirit worlds.
		There are several levels of spirit worlds.
		And I've been to some of them and met people, deceased relatives and that, over the past, friends that have died.
		And yeah, with these awake-induced, high-level projections, they take quite a bit of energy and skill to get into them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just taking one moment to do this, my audience is probably bored with it.
		I've had one OBE in my life.
		It occurred in Paris.
		I was on vacation in Paris, France, in bed next to my wife.
		And in just one instant, I shot straight up out of the bed, and I was up above Paris.
		I was aware that I was way up above the city of Paris to where I could just see a lot of France.
		And I had this overwhelming, I can't even describe it, this joyous, all-knowing, but pure joy, and some word that's beyond joy.
		And instantly, I went right back into my body.
		I was so shaken up by the experience.
		I woke up.
		My wife told her all about it.
		And I've never had anything like it in my life.
		A couple of times, Robert, I have felt the approach of an OBE.
		I have felt the vibration.
		I felt the noise, the buzzing, I felt the beginning of being paralyzed, but in every instant, Robert, I've always, I'm a kind of a control freak, and I've yanked myself back, scared to death of it.
		And the one I had in Paris, I had no choice.
		I had no warning, I had no vibration, I had no anything.
		It just happened.
		It just, boom, happened like that.
		And I couldn't control it.
		It was wonderful, and it was frightening at the same time.
		But in every other instant, I have stopped it cold because it's scary.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		Yes.
		The reason why you remembered the first one is probably because of your excitement and that pure sense of freedom you get when you have that type of OBE.
		It's a mind-blowing experience.
		And I'd say the emotional content of that allowed you to remember it and probably jerked you back into your body as well.
		If you don't have a strong emotional content in your mind when you re-enter your physical body, you normally won't remember it.
		Your other cases, when you experience OBE-type symptoms like vibrations, heartbeat, hearing the rushing noises and that, and then it stops, you've probably got an OBE in progress at that time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but that's a very, very uncomfortable feeling.
		And I mean really uncomfortable.
		what's extremely disconcerting it's not something uh...
		that anybody who likes control I mean, it can cause you to feel sick.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, definitely.
		The sensations with OBE, especially one when you're awake during the OBE exit, can be enormous.
		The first couple of times I awake-induced one, I thought I was going to die.
		They were so strong.
		I mean, your heart going 300 beats a minute, these massive whole-body vibrations and a continual falling sensation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		And this is all unknown territory.
		If you don't know what's happening, it is terrifying.
		But knowledge replaces fear.
		If you understand the mechanics of the process, which I focus on in my book, Astral Dynamics, it explains the process and takes a lot of the fear out of it if you understand what's happening.
		And then you can go with it and experience out-of-body experiences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what it's like, Robert?
		It's like standing up on top of a cliff and looking down and seeing rocks 1,000 feet below and jumping.
		And having someone say, go ahead and jump.
		You'll be all right.
		You'll be okay.
		Jump.
		It's kind of like that.
		I could no more do that than I'm not capable of it, Robert.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		You have the habit of having a physical body.
		So when you fly out or fly into the unknown, leaving your body, a lot of fear of the unknown is involved.
		And you can only replace that by replacing it with knowledge, talking to other people, reading about it, finding out what these symptoms are exactly, what are the vibrations, why is my heart racing?
		Your heart isn't racing.
		If you hook yourself up to an ECG, you'll find your heart barely ripples.
		But the heart chakra, one of your primary energy centers, which is normally involved with the OB exit, is very, very active during the actual generation of the projected double.
		And it races, and it feels exactly like a rapid heartbeat, very, very fast.
		And it's frightening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		So frightening that, again, it's like standing on that cliff and somebody next to you saying, hey, don't worry about it.
		Go ahead, jump.
		You'll be fine.
unidentified		No way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You first.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		So did you go fall asleep after this?
		Or did you find yourself paralyzed?
		Or did you wake up and get out of bed?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		Usually what I've done is I haven't even gotten out of bed.
		I just, you know, you break out in the cold sweats and you yank yourself away from it.
		You lie there for a while and then you finally manage to fall back into a normal sleep.
		That's my experience.
		But I hold myself totally away from this stuff.
		It scares the Jesus out of me.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, if you did that and you just shut your mind off to it and fell asleep, you probably had a successful OBE at that time, but lost the memory download of it.
		When the projected double is generated and there are two of you, it comes out of the body, there is a problem with the physical brain of storing more than one memory at the same time.
		The brain is used to storing linear life experiences.
		When you have two sets or three sets, if the drain mind becomes active at the same time, it causes a lot of problems and you either get a mixture or what normally happens, the out-of-body experience side of the memory is just totally wiped.
		So you can have multiple OBEs successfully, but you will lose the, if you lose the memory download, without the memory, you've never had one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, exactly what I was going to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, if you have no memory of it, then you have done nothing that adds to your life experience.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		But if you have a successful OBE and experiment a little bit, I mean, the first one you had in Paris, if you actually look at that, that was quite unintimidating and harmless.
		A joyful experience, you could say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it intimidated me.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		And intimidated you because you didn't understand what was happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it was a wonderful thing, but there was none of this pre-warning stuff that we've discussed already that's pretty horrific as far as I'm concerned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It just boom happened like that.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		That often happens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And really?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it often happens.
		If you're in a state ready for OB, your physical body to sleep, you're in like a tranced state, sometimes your projected double will just bang, just go straight out there.
		It's a different, it's a slightly higher level of projection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was easily the most amazing thing that I've ever felt in my entire life.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's pretty amazing.
		The sense of freedom, your abilities, you can fly, you can pass through solid matter.
		It's amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't doubt it.
		I just, it's unimaginable for me to understand how you could be aware of it and control it and then use it to travel where you would, where you will, into other realms and dimensions Or even into space, I've heard that there really are no limitations once you're out of your body.
		Is that correct?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
		The best way to go about it is one step at a time.
		You mentioned your sense of control there, which that was interfering with.
		If you wake-induced an OBE, I mean, sat in a chair and deliberately put yourself in a state and used a technique to pull yourself out of your body, you're in control of the exit.
		And I recommend to people when they do that, you obviously have OBE ability, even though you don't use it.
		I recommend they work on that, use a technique like the rope technique in my book, pull themselves out of their body and stay out for just 10 seconds.
		Have a quick look at their hands, watch them melt, look around the room and then dive back in your body shouting Geronimo.
		Because if you don't have a strong memory, it's very hard to get those OBE memories past your physical memories.
		And even your dream memories have more impression on the mind than an OBE memory.
		But strong emotional content overcomes that.
		I discovered that many years ago.
		I was working at teaching myself wake-induced OBE.
		And I remember coming out of my body, had a very easy exit, sitting across the room, thinking to myself, well that was quite easy, but all my memories of the OBEs I'd had before was very difficult exits.
		A lot of sensations, very hard work indeed.
		And then I thought to myself, I wonder if maybe I kept some strong emotion in my mind of what I was doing.
		Maybe there's some kind of memory problem that my memories are not getting through to the brain where they can be stored at the conscious level, which are accessible to the conscious mind.
		And anyway, I tried jumping back in, shouting Geronimo, and it worked.
		And ever since then, it's easy to recall as long as you follow that basic instruction.
		But short OBEs, like 10 seconds in your own lounge room, do them in the daytime.
		You'll find them much less intimidating.
		I've never had a person yet to complain of fear if they have a wake-induced OBE during the daytime.
		That overcomes most problems.
		Because if you go outside, it's sunny, the sun's shiny, you can see everywhere, there's no dark shadows.
		And we all have a natural fear of the dark somewhere at the back of our mind.
		And sunlight overcomes that and you feel much safer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
		Here's a good practical question from Barbara in Pasadena.
		Please ask, Robert, what does one gain?
		What do you gain from an OBE?
		What do you gain from having successive, learning to do it and then having successive OBEs?
		Where is the gain?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		It's the first step.
		Learning wake-induced OBEs, the first step, you could say, to emancipation of the human self.
		In my book, out-of-body experience, learning to have them and to do them at will, is a part of the human spiritual evolutionary process.
		And it gives you an enormous freedom.
		It opens you up to different dimensional levels.
		You have closer contact with your higher self, with God, even if you want to put it that way.
		And it also shows you that you can exist independently from your physical body.
		And you will find, with some experience, you start losing your fear of death and of what lies beyond the grave.
		Because you've already been there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I suppose that would probably be true if you really are beginning to get a grasp or an understanding of what lies beyond and that definitely something does.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		It also saves a lot of money on the airfares.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If what you do is really possible, then it should provable.
		I don't know who said it, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and if one is actually able to leave their body, in essence avoiding airfares, as you've just pointed out, then you should be able to go to a place under strict controls that you have never been to and be able to describe that place in some great amount of detail that would take it past any possibility of chance.
		In other words, you would be able to describe something at a great distance, let's say, and prove to the world that OBEs are absolutely real and you can leave your body and go elsewhere.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you would think that.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		I get asked to do that several times a day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		I don't get as much email as you, but I get 100 a day.
		And yeah, that's not as easy as you would think.
		I'm actually planning to run some experiments later this year to prove the validity of real-time OBE under some control circumstances.
		Really?
		Now, here the problem is, most people only have like a minute or two after they do awake-induced OBE into the real time zone, which is the area of the astral which is very close to the physical dimension.
		It's like a reflection of physical reality as it happens.
		Most people, that reality starts to erode.
		It's a very fluid, subjective environment.
		Now, so after most people get out, a minute or two later, the doors are in the wrong places and they leave their lounge room and they find they're in a park somewhere and everything gets very confusing.
		It's what I call the Alice in Wonderland effect.
		But with training and if you have enough energy, you can increase that time, the objective part of the OBE, to 10, 15, even 20 minutes.
		It's very difficult to go beyond that.
		But you could do some tests.
		I would have to set them up myself because I know a lot of people have done tests on this in sleep labs.
		I think even Robert Monroe took part in a set of experiments on this in a sleep lamp.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct, yes.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, where he was, and he had some success.
		And they had a young girl there, a 12-year-old, who had like 10 times out of 10, 100% success.
		She would project, she's rigged up to monitors and meters, and she would project out and go through the door into the room opposite and read the numbers on the meters.
		And she got it 10 times out of 10.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I was honored to be able to interview Robert Monroe before he passed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And, boy, he was doing some very important work, wasn't he?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he was.
		He contributed enormously to our knowledge on these things.
		But that sort of proof, to other scientists, they want to do it themselves.
		So you have to continually prove these things.
		And there do need to be more experiments on this.
		But in my way of thinking, the biggest problem a person has trying to validate real-time out-of-body experience is that as soon as you pass your projected double for a solid object, you open yourself up to reality fluctuations.
		Ghosting for a walk, for example.
		Have you ever seen Ghost?
		The movie Ghost with Patrick Swayze moves through that person in the hospital?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think I have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I did see that.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		It's a little special effect there where he's like moving through this moving section.
		You can see the blood and little microbes moving around.
		Very confusing.
		That's what it's like to pass through a brick wall.
		It's quite bright on the inside of solid matter, and you can see the molecules on that moving around.
		But what happens is that can very easily cause a reality fluctuation.
		Or if you pass into a mirror or reflective substance, that causes it as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean by a reality?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		It causes the subjective, fluid environment you're in.
		It causes fluctuations.
		They're affected by the subconscious mind.
		Your dream mind could be active at that time.
		There's minds of other people dreaming around that area as well, which can affect it.
		Any little thing could trigger an association in you, which will cause a little mental thought to arise, which can cause little problems.
		And once you get a problem occurs and you start losing track of reality, like if you look to where your front door is and you find there's nothing there, it's just a wall, and your front door is now at the other end of the room, that causes a subconscious problem which causes your subconscious mind to start creating things to make up for the discrepancies.
		And anyway, reality fluctuations occur a lot.
		To do a fair test, you would have to have a projector in a large room, very large room, like a warehouse, and have a barrier up there that he couldn't see across and have him move around the barrier and check the readouts on the instruments or the cart or whatever they've got set up for him to see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you willing to do exactly that kind of test?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Oh, definitely.
		Or be willing.
		I plan to start up a little research institute here, maybe in about a year's time, and get some help and people in there involved in this to do just that.
		Probably about the end of this year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I want to ask you about mirrors, too.
		There's something special about mirrors.
		So we'll ask that, and we'll go to phones when we get back.
		And if you have questions about psychic attacks or defending yourself against them or whether you're being psychically attacked, this would be a great time to begin dialing, I would think.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 20, 2002.
		Coast to Coast AM from February 20, 2002.
		My heart is on fire.
		My soul's like a wheel that's turning.
		My love is alive.
		My love is the light, yeah.
		My love is the light, yeah.
		Some velvet morning when I'm straight I'm gonna open up your gate And maybe tell you about Phaedra And how she gave me life
		And how she made it in Some velvet morning when I'm straight Flowers growing on a hill Driving flies and dived for deals Learn from us very much
		at us, but do not fit my name in the morning when I'm straight.
		I'm gonna open up your gate and maybe tell you about Phaedra and how she gave me life and how she gave me.
		You're listening to Arc Bells somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would imagine meeting somebody on that other side or in one of those realms named Phaedra might be a thing to expect.
		Hardly ever here, though.
		Oh, by the way, tomorrow night, Eric Burden of the Animals is going to be here.
		Should be a very, Very interesting and different kind of night tomorrow night.
		Eric Burden, tomorrow night on Coast.
		If you'll stay right there, we're about to go to the phones with Robert Bruce.
unidentified		The End Now we take you back to the night of February 20th, 2002 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, to the area of Perth, Australia, and Robert Bruce.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Robert, are you there?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'm going to ask you and everybody else to sort of understand as we go to the telephones here if the callers would be so kind as to ask their question and then pause for an answer because we do have a little bit of time differential talking to somebody on the other side of the world.
		And if you don't pause like that, it will cause people to begin to speak over each other.
		So I'm going to go to the phones now and we'll give it a shot here.
		On my international line, you're on the air with Robert Bruce.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Australia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're in Australia?
unidentified		Yes, Sam.
		What part?
		Sydney.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sydney, Australia.
		All right, so in other words, let's see now.
		We're going all the way from Australia to here, bouncing around in millions of satellites, and back to Australia, and then back on...
		Do you have a question for Robert?
unidentified		Yes, I do.
		How well do you perform non-verbal communication?
		As I understand, Monroe described it as manipulating the M-band.
		The M-band, sorry, yeah.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure what you mean.
		Can you elaborate a little bit?
		Can you elaborate on that?
unidentified		Well, I was asked by some friends to ask this question.
		I don't know exactly what they meant.
		I guess I don't know.
		They said to mention the M-band.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		M-band?
unidentified		M-band, yes.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Non-verbal communication would be telepathy, intuition, something like that.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		I'm really not sure what you're asking there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you were asked by somebody else to proffer this question caller, then I guess you can't elucidate for us, can you?
unidentified		Yep.
		Apparently it's meant to be like sending emotions and yeah.
		Yes.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		I got you.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, well, I'm pretty good at that.
		I can communicate with animals and I can feel what they want.
		And we understand each other and work for children, too.
		I'm great with babies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I know that is true.
		We're a cat household.
		We have four cats.
		And you can project emotion at a cat.
		And you can see the cat physically react to it.
		I mean, beyond any question, beyond any reason, you can watch the cat physically react to the emotion you're sending to it.
		It'll sort of just roll over on its back and give you its belly.
		And, you know, it knows that you're projecting this.
		It can feel it or sense it or something.
		I don't know.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, definitely.
		Most cats give up.
		I've got two cats myself.
		I love them.
		Most cats and dogs give up trying to communicate with humans.
		But if you listen and feel, you find you can get some pretty good communication going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		All right.
		First time caller line.
		You're on the air with Robert Bruce.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, sirs.
unidentified		This is Zufo calling from Vancouver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Zufo!
unidentified		How are you doing, Robert?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		G'day, Mike.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		You got through.
unidentified		Unbelievably.
		I've tried calling your show, Art, so many thousands of times and never get through.
		And tonight, just after one try, it was very great.
		Art, I just wanted to say hello.
		I wanted to say hi so many times.
		I've listened to you for years, and I think your show is the best.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You obviously know each other?
unidentified		Well, I bought Robert's book.
		I started studying this a couple years ago, and I started to follow him online and found his stuff to be so clear and easy to follow.
		He should have called his book OBEs for Dummies because it is really, really practical easy to follow.
		And I started to be able to project consciously.
		Well, I mean, I'm on my way to getting there.
		But I think it's just fabulous.
		I really, really loves Robert's stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you've been able to make practical use of his book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you learned to do it yourself or you are in the process of doing that?
unidentified		Yeah, I've actually had a couple of successful daytime projections just by getting into a trance state and then using this technique.
		I think you refer to it in the show as called the rope technique, where you imagine having a rope hanging from the ceiling above your head and just with your mental hands, you imagine pulling it.
		And if you get a good grip on that with your mind, you can feel the effect in your body.
		It's like you get a falling sensation in the pit of your stomach.
		It's amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Robert, he's obviously referring to some technique described in your book.
		You want to describe that to us?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he just described it.
		What it does, it makes use of your body awareness, which is a powerful tool.
		You exteriorize your body awareness by not so much imagining, but feeling you have a pair of hands, disembodied hands.
		So you could be laying there completely relaxed and pro-entranced, and you feel your hands coming up and you feel them climbing a rope.
		And because you're exteriorizing your center of awareness, this has a great effect upon the projection mechanism and can trigger an OBE very effectively.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's very interesting.
		So can you do that technique prior to the beginning of one of the signs of an OBE?
		Can you use that to actually begin those signs?
unidentified		Yes, you can use it to begin the process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The process?
		Uh-oh.
		I have this feeling that we just lost Robert.
		Are you there, Robert?
		We just lost Robert.
		Well, that's what happens.
		I guess in the course of a four-hour conversation, you're bound to lose it once between here and Australia.
		That's not a bad deal.
		Let's see if I can re-dial and what kind of connection we had to actually re-dial a couple of times prior to the show because we were getting very, very poor quality connections.
		And we finally got one that worked for at least a few hours.
		So I'm going to re-dial.
		I'm doing that as I'm speaking to you right now.
		A lot of numbers to dial here.
		It's very interesting.
		Let's see.
		Let's see if we can do this.
		Here we go.
unidentified		Here we go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I said here we go.
		Let me see.
		Are we really there?
		No.
		you know what it looks like uh...
		This is very interesting.
		I wonder what has happened.
		Let me try this way.
		Now we have that.
		All right.
		Let me try it that way then.
		Let me just punch up the line.
		No, I better not do it that way.
		Let me take up a hand zip.
		I see why it didn't work, I think.
		Because around the world stuff is kind of crazy.
		But interesting.
		Well, I bet we get some good phone bills.
		Let's see.
		Okay, let's try this again.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Try for a.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here we go.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		We're back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, something just blew us completely apart is what happened.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		You were the solo player.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You disappeared actually right in the middle of saying process, I believe.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Right.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Are we okay to go now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We are.
		We're back on the air, I think.
		So you were saying right in the middle of a process.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the rope technique can be used to initiate a wake-induced OBE from scratch, or it can be used to, if you start getting symptoms, it can be used to finish it off, to get out of body in a conscious state.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		It's very versatile.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, you could visualize the rope and you could climb your way back to your body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or lower yourself into your body, I suppose.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		When you climb out of your body, getting back is very easy.
		You just have to feel for your body and move towards it and you'll get sucked back in again.
		The re-entry process is just as fascinating as the exit process.
		You feel yourself dissolving because of the mind split as you re-enter the body.
		It's this big hissing, buzzy energy sensation, and then you're back in your body.
		It's an amazing process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Wildcard line, you would have been on the air with my guests.
		Hold on just one second.
		Looks like we've done it again.
		This is really wild.
		I wonder what's going on here.
		I just saw that line go dark.
		Some nights, huh?
		Okay, here we go.
		We'll try this again.
		Ever persistent.
		Listen to how it rings.
		It's kind of interesting in a different country.
		See that?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		I'm back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Robert, we're having a time of it here, I see.
		Yes.
		Let me try this one more time.
		Wildcard line, you are probably on the air with Robert Bruce in Australia.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
		Oh, there you are.
		Where are you, ma'am?
unidentified		Here I am.
		I'm in East Tennessee.
		This is Brandy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Brandy.
unidentified		And Mr. Bruce, I have a question.
		Mr. Bell was mentioned, Andrea Yates.
		She's the woman who's on trial now for drowning her five children in the bathtub.
		And I wondered, because there seems to be quite a prevalence of postpartum depression, and Andrea Yates herself has been diagnosed reportedly with postpartum psychosis.
		So I wondered, are women more likely to experience psychic attacks and possessions when they've recently given birth?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a pretty interesting question, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Robert?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, my research has shown that the pregnant women are more likely to start to come under psychic attack, entity attack, primarily because entities try and attach to the unborn child.
		Yeah, it's horrific.
		And with new babies around, they also try for the new baby and they use a process of conditioning, usually take several weeks to attach to them.
		But the mother is very vulnerable at that time, and especially if she's suffering from depression, she could come under, she'd be more likely to come under a psychic attack or influence.
		And in a case like that, where you have obviously a very strong one, it's possible that something took control of her and basically did it, you know, against her will.
unidentified		They said one of the, I guess her mother-in-law testified that she walked around in circles and scratched her head until clumps of hair came out.
unidentified		Is that something that?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		I guess that is consistent with something like with an attack.
		Okay.
		Strange, doing strange things, strange hand gestures, self-mutilation, things like that.
		Yeah, quite consistent.
		I'd have to know more about the case and the symptoms she experienced before I could really nail down what was happening there.
		But I mean, you know, obviously there is a mental disturbance there as well, but which came first, the chicken or the egg?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I meant to ask you, and I want to ask you about mirrors.
		There's always been something strange about mirrors, and there's been a lot of lore and, you know, a lot of mystery involving mirrors and gazing and staring at mirrors.
		Do you know anything about that, Robert?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		I know a little bit about them.
		Regarding OBEs, astral projections, if you pass through a mirror or through a reflective substance like glass or through Reflective water.
		It will tend to shift you into another reality.
		It causes a major reality fluctuation.
		But mirrors are well known to be used as magical devices as well, and they can be used by using you could reflect, say, a tarot card into a mirror and then you project into the reflection and you could connect with the realm associated with that tarot card and project into it.
		I give a technique similar in my book called virtual reality projection where you set up a mirror with, say you get a favourite painting or a poster of a lovely beach scene, a place you'd like to be, and you reflect that into the mirror and then you make the OBE and you pass into the mirror and it will take you into a created realm that your subconscious mind creates as you enter it, which will be exactly like the picture you've entered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		That's really fascinating.
		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Robert Bruce.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Is that me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's you.
unidentified		Okay, I'm Norma Jean in Houston, Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am.
unidentified		And Mr. Bruce, my son and I are experiencing ongoing psychic attacks.
		I'd like to give you some of the background on it and see if you can advise me on it, if you have any advice, anything we could do to stop it.
		When my son was 11 years old, he was attacked by a poltergeist.
		He was bitten, scratched, poked, punched, had his hair yanked, and all the general poltergeist stuff.
		A whole lot of things happened.
		But anyway, he is now 33 years old.
		The violent attacks have stopped, but there still seems to be attacks like he tries to get a job, and I've got him so many cars.
		His motors will blow up, his tires will explode, his batteries will explode, and it's too much to be coincidence.
		And I'm wondering if the poltergeist attack could be connected to a curse, because we had evicted some people from our house that were homeless.
		They lived there for quite a while, and then they started trying to take over the house, so we evicted them.
		And shortly after we evicted them, I found photographs of my son where an X had been marked through his face.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
		Ma'am, can you hold on for a moment?
		We've got a break here at the bottom of the hour.
		All right, good.
		Hold on, because I do want to hear the rest of this.
		An X. Yes, well, Robert was mentioning physical manifestations of those possessed in this manner and those who are witches.
		That was just a bit earlier.
		We'll be right back.
		I'm Art Bell from the High Desert.
		It is.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20, 2002.
		You, and the city's side tonight.
		You, you, go higher and higher, baby.
		Yes It's a living thing.
		It's a terrible thing to lose.
		It's a given thing to lose.
		What a terrible thing to lose.
		I can feel it coming in the air tonight.
		Oh, no.
		I've been waiting for a song.
		We're all on.
		Oh, no.
		Oh, no.
		I remember it.
		How could I forget the first time the last time we ever met?
		I know the reason why you gave me time to talk to the show.
		But the pain is so rose.
		So forget that you were me.
		It ain't coming here tonight But I won't But I
		I've been waiting for this moment for all my life Lord I've been waiting for this moment for all my life Lord Lord I've been waiting for this moment Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bells Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired February 20th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really are some things you can feel coming in the air, aren't there?
		They'll stand the hair on the back of your neck straight up, and you can feel them getting close.
		And I'm not referring just to evil spirits, but I'm referring to events and things that are coming.
unidentified		you can feel them in the air You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, all the way back to Australia and Robert Bruce and this caller who was online.
		Ma'am, you're back online again.
		Please continue.
unidentified		All right.
		As I was saying, it was after these people were evicted that I found pictures with an X mark through my son's face.
		And it was shortly after that that the poltergeist attacks started happening.
		And my son was in front of a mirror one day and it shattered.
		And he told me the people's name was Stump.
		And he told me he could see Mr. Stump's face in the mirror just before it shattered and he was smiling at him.
		Now, every time he saw a man a few years ago that came up to him, he'd never seen him before, and he started telling him, is it still happening to you?
		Is it still missing with your cars?
		And my son didn't answer him because he was kind of startled because the man was telling him the things that were happening to him.
		And he said, I can take it off you for $1,000.
		And my son said, I don't have $1,000.
		And the man said, when you want it taken off, I won't find you.
		And now, every once in a while, when something bad happens to my son, he'll see that man standing looking at him.
		And then, Mr. Bruce, I'm just wondering, I'm desperate if you could tell me any way, anything that would help us.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, first, when an attack like that starts, the primary defense I use, these things, the negative entities, don't travel very well.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Simply leaving your house or going to another room, you leave the house.
unidentified		We wouldn't have moved into another place, even though we owned a house.
		And it was with us in the car, it was with us in the other house.
		And then it's still here in this house where I'm at now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pause for a second and listen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, the rum.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		If it hasn't attached to a boy during an attack, you can normally break the attack completely by crossing running water.
		Find a water main or a garden hose and walk over.
		And if the attachment hasn't been made, it will break it instantly.
		It's a very powerful defence.
unidentified		Did the attacks have to be ongoing when you did that?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		No, that works on the first one.
		If it's already made an attachment, it's already, you could say, piggybacking with the boy.
		That won't work.
		That definitely sounds like an entity attack to me.
		But what's happening around your boy, he's got very bad luck.
		You could say aptly he's been cursed.
		It's like a reality fluctuation around him, which gives him really bad luck.
		This is like a shamanic type attack.
		If you're a negative shaman type person attacking somebody, it's quite well known to cause these reality fluctuations.
		I've seen this.
		It's quite noticeable.
unidentified		Be like a curse or witchcraft.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, like, yes, like that.
		It's like a curse.
		You really need professional help for this.
unidentified		Who would I go to for help?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Have a look in your local area and see if you can find a good practicing shaman or a white witch or a magician or somebody experienced with these things.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		If you can't, if you can get email access at all.
unidentified		I don't have a computer in my home, but I imagine I could go to the library or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		Let's do that.
		Robert, I take it you have email access.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
		If you could email me at my website, go to www.astraldynamics.com.
		One word lowercase.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we've got a link on our site, artbell.com.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And go to my site and email myself on my webmaster, and he'll forward it to me.
		I can put you in touch with somebody in the States who's very, very good at breaking that kind of an attack.
		I've worked with this lady for some years now.
		She's excellent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Robert, I was honored to have interviewed many times a man named Father Malachi Martin, who was very close to the Vatican, very high up in the Vatican.
		And he was an exorcist.
		He has now passed away.
		However, during the time that we interviewed, that we spoke, he spoke many times of the, in his opinion, increasing amount of evil here on earth.
		And he was suggesting that, he was, not suggesting, but saying that in his view, for example, in the area in which he practiced in New York, evil had risen about 800% during the time that he's been watching it and participating and trying to rid people of it.
		Would you concur with that?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Definitely.
		I know the man.
		I don't know him personally.
		I know his work.
		He's a great man.
		Alakai.
unidentified		Yes.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		But yes, I agree with him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then you're seeing more and more then of these possessions, of evil, of the presence of evil, or of negative forces?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, negative forces at work.
		The psychic attacks, the influences, people don't recognize the source of the, you could say, evil behavior that that causes and the psychic and demonic attacks.
		I mean, I started getting involved with this accidentally.
		I was in a small town of like 12,000 people, and I had seven families approach me, and I'm not that sociable a person.
		I didn't advertise, just through word of mouth, seven family with serious entity problems, including demonic possessions and public and that.
		That's just in a small town.
		I mean, this really is quite widespread, and it is growing.
		There is a lot you can do about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Obviously.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Robert Bruce in Australia.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
		All right, Robert.
		This is Joe from Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Excellent show tonight.
		Robert, your description of the noise and vibration associated with the beginning of an OBE really struck me.
		When I was 16, I went through a period of pretty serious mental disturbance, I guess like a lot of 16-year-olds.
		But I would have these attacks before I would drift off to sleep, and they scared the bejesus out of me.
		I would have this buzzing in my head, almost like a, it felt like a rolling vibration.
		It felt like a vibration, but it felt like it was rolling inside of my head.
		And it felt like I was starting to come away from myself, but I would always get very scared and try to wake myself up.
		But it felt like I was wondering if when you're having an OBE, if you feel like it comes from a specific region in your brain, like the top of your head, or if it's in the front, or that varies.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		It depends upon which is your most active energy center part of your body.
		With some people it's in the head.
		With some people it's more often in the heart area.
		But what you're describing there tells me that you have a natural OBE ability.
		And I deal with cases like this every day.
		I do a lot of consulting on the net with problems like this.
		You don't really have a problem.
		Possibly the OBEs you were having were contributing to your mental disturbance at the time by worrying you.
		And also there's a lot of stuff going on in your body at that age, especially if you're having spontaneous type out-of-body experiences or near experiences.
		Has it all settled down now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's gone now, but he also might be said to have an opportunity since he's getting this all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He could go and explore it, couldn't he?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that is one of the best ways of stopping problems like that.
		I have a lot of people come to me who can't stay in their bodies.
		They keep popping out of their body and it terrifies them.
		That would be learning how to wake induce them normally solves the problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would be absolutely disconcerting to keep leaving without trying.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Robert Bruce in Australia.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, Robert Nart.
		This is Mike from Esmont, Virginia, listening to you on WLNI, The Line, out of Lynchburg.
		Yes, sir.
		I've seen the grid.
		It was in a wake state with a big headache.
		It was a white grid, very pure white, with some of the rectangles in it filled in.
		I met an interdimensional being.
		It was pure white.
		It was coming from sleep into wakefulness.
		I had just enough time, but I seemed to wake up so fast.
		It seemed to have kissed me in my sleep and woken me up.
		And it was there with its eyes closed.
		It was a monkey head.
		It was pure white, but it did not have the big hump on the back.
		It was like a gorilla face.
		And I saw it long enough, either with my astral body or my own eyes, I remember exactly.
		I saw it long enough to be able to realize it had no teeth, it had like a wrinkled mouth, but it had definitely eight eyes.
		And it opened up its eyes real fast, and it was startled, and it flew out.
		And as I gained full wakefulness, it was right into the sunbeam shining on my head.
		And one time when I left the body, which has all but happened to be fairly frequently, I mean fairly recently, I saw a fabric, like you were kind of talking about, of indescribable colors, and I had the feeling of indescribable jewelry, and the fabric was weaving itself at the same time.
		That was the most frightening one because I also saw my arm disattached in a gray cloud, and then I couldn't breathe, and then I woke back up.
		And it seems like when the body is leaving, the astral body is leaving, the regular body, there's like a balloon feeling like you're pulling on a rubber kind of thing.
		And that's what I've seen so far.
		And I used to have those paralyzing things, and I found that was my gateway into leaving my body, although I couldn't see myself leaving my body at first, was those horrible dreams, and I fought them instead and decided to hunt what was doing it to me.
		And that seemed to take away all the fear.
		Do you know what that creature was?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, first off, I'd say the beam of sunlight you said was striking your face is what woke you up, brought you back.
unidentified		Right.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		It's very possible that that was affecting your...
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		It may have interfered with the colours and the colour of the being you saw.
unidentified		That's a pure white ape face.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Well, that being you saw, the little ape face things.
unidentified		It was as big as my head.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they are normally a type of low astral wildlife.
		They look like monkeys.
		And they're quite common.
		The old spiritualists used to call them elementals.
unidentified		Elementals.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Not a very accurate description.
unidentified		Why would it have been startled?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		It would have been startled because you saw it and it recognized that you saw it.
unidentified		Yeah, that's exactly the feeling I got.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Caller, you've got to be careful.
		We've got a connection, a long-distance connection here, as you can tell.
		So you're going to talk over each other if you're not careful.
		So you startled it.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Robert, so obviously then, when you're in the same state, when you're in the same realm, these creatures or these entities, even the elemental ones, they understand very well that you can see them.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, keep in mind, elemental is a very inept, it's not a very appropriate term for them.
		Elementals are quite a different thing.
		But these little beings, they're like a low astral wildlife.
		They appear a lot with new projectors, whether you're having spontaneous out-of-body experiences or wake-induced ones.
		And a lot of projectors, they appear around their beds and try to scare them just by their presence.
		It's almost as if they are attracted to people who are having OBEs, and their job is to scare them back into their bodies.
		But they are totally harmless.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it certainly would work for me.
		Scaring me, that is.
		On the international line, you're on the air with Robert Bruce in Australia.
unidentified		Where are you, please?
unidentified		I'm in Sydney.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're in Sydney, Australia, also?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Proceed, sir.
unidentified		Excuse me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sounds like you're in downtown Sydney in the middle of the day.
		Yeah, it does, doesn't it?
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Yeah, firstly, I'd just like to say X23 onto you.
		And number two, Hack the Planet.
		Thanks.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		That's my message for tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I don't know what that means.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you, Robert?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		No idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Robert Bruce in Australia.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, good morning.
		Oh, Robert, Art was mentioning Malachi Martin, who was an exorcist for the Catholic Church.
		And as a matter of fact, AP had a story a couple days ago that the Pope himself has done three exorcisms in his tenure in office.
		I have two questions.
		One is, how do you view the Christian tradition of exorcism?
		And my second question is, that lady that called from Tennessee, could you give us more, I would imagine, tips on how we can individually, let's say that we've had this experience and there is some attachment, what can a person do by himself to get rid of it?
		Or do we have to necessarily go to an outside source like you told that lady?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it seemed as though, and check me if I'm wrong, Robert, but short of crossing water, the way you advised her, for something as serious as the attachment she was describing, professional help would be a must, is that correct?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes, in that case it would be.
		Definitely.
		Crossing running water will break the majority of any kind of psychic or entity attacks that happen when they first happen.
		And if you can do that, you can very often stop an attachment taking place.
		It's a way of protecting yourself.
		Keep in mind that running water was what I learned about the running water method by releasing myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Certainly you didn't know.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I didn't know I was sleeping on top of a running water stream.
		But the Christian view of exorcism is there's a Christian method, there's a Jewish method, there's Buddhist methods.
		If you go to Tibetan Buddhism, it doesn't matter so much on the method that's being used.
		It matters more upon the person and the strength that that person has and the faith that they have.
		And the technique they use, of course, has some effect as well.
		But it's a combination of the three.
		So to be a good exorcist, you have to have a good technique, a lot of faith, and a lot of inner strength.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Your book on this subject, which is going to be titled The Practical Psychic Self-Defense, it's not out yet.
		When should it be out?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		It should be out at the end of June.
		Amazon.com are advertising it for early July.
		So it should be available about a month earlier from the publishers, Hampton Rhodes of Virginia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, in the meantime, your other book called Astral Dynamics is now available.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that correct?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's available through Amazon.com or my website or Hampton Rhodes, any bookstore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, a lot of people are going to be very obviously interested.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Robert Bruce in Australia.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		This is Dean Listening on Como in Western Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am.
unidentified		And Robert, I recently heard a person that does work like you do interviewed, and he called all spirits inhuman entities and said that all spirits were negative and there were no white witches.
		And he lumped the tarot in with the Ouija board.
		And I'm especially interested in the tarot, and I'm wondering if you would address that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Actually, a good question.
		This person believing all spirits are negative one way or the other.
		Robert?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		But that is more of a fundamentalist type Christian view, and everybody's entitled to their opinion.
		But in my view, there's nothing harmful in the Tarot.
		And as for entities and spirits, they are definitely not all evil.
		I mean, there are angels.
		I've met and talked to angels.
		They definitely exist, and they're spirits.
		And you wouldn't call them evil.
		They're great beings, and there are all sorts of great, wonderful, great beings out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One question, Robert.
		How do you know you're not being tricked?
		That would be a question a fundamentalist would certainly ask, because they would imagine that to be the case in many cases where you thought you had some warm, fuzzy, angelic presence, you're being tricked.
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Nobody can guarantee that.
		It's very much like real life, the way I look upon spirit entities, angels.
		The proof is in the pudding.
		You judge a person, a spirit, the same way you do a human being.
		You do not automatically give them trust.
		Trust is earned by their deeds and by their actions.
		You learn about a person's integrity and then you start to trust them, as you would do any person you met on the street.
		That is the best way of treating any entities.
		But of course, if you meet up with an angel, they're quite a different sort of thing.
		They come with a great presence.
		Now, you can say that all these things are bad, but I mean, that's another fundamentalist type viewpoint, which is very, very limited, very narrow-focused.
		It's focused upon a few words here and there in the Bible, and they are taking them literally, and therefore you cannot debate with people like that because they're not open-minded.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We could go on for hours and hours and hours.
		But the program is ending, Robert.
		It has been an absolute pleasure having you here.
		I hope you do very well, and I'm certain you're going to do very well with your books, and we would like to have you back again sometime.
		Perhaps when your book is out.
		How about that?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		I'd love to come back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thanks, a million, and have a great day.
		What's left of it there in Australia?
robert bruce ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for having me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, Robert.
		That's Robert Bruce.
		And wasn't he interesting tomorrow night?
		Eric Burden of the Animals is going to be here from the High Desert.
		As always, I'm Art Bell.

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