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Feb. 20, 2002 - Art Bell

02:48:29

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Robert Bruce - Astral Dynamics

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	Welcome to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
	From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the entire world, all 24 time zones served by this radio program, Coast to Coast AM emanating from a little tiny town called Trump, Nevada.
	I'm Art Bell, glad to be here.
	It's good to be talking to the denizens of the night, you know?
	I've been thinking about that a lot lately.
	There really is a very large difference between people who live in the night time, and I mean, that's their awake time, that's their living time in the dark hours, and those who subsist during the day.
	One night we should have a talk about that.
	I wonder how many of the rest of you have thought about that.
	The difference between day people and night people.
	It's a big difference.
	Really big difference.
	Anyway, let's look at the world news such as it is.
	I'm criticized frequently for having topics that are a little dark, you know, but when I look at the news, the world news, it's really darker than most anything I ever talk about.
	The actual news.
	Our president is in Beijing.
	Actually, he's not.
	I think he's in South Korea, I guess.
	At any rate, he's talking about Beijing.
	And he's basically saying that he wants to strike a deal.
	I guess he is there, huh?
	Let's see.
	President Bush was greeted at the Great Hall.
	And then the two went behind closed doors trying to knock out a deal as follows.
	China stops its selling nuclear stuff to nations that we're not real happy with.
	Our side of the deal is we lift sanctions so they can launch satellites.
	U.S.
	companies, TV satellites, radio satellites, whatever.
	The Chinese want to get into and have been in the satellite launching business and they want business and so our end of the deal would be to allow them to suddenly launch whatever company's satellites they would like launched.
	In Israel, the situation continues to get worse.
	So many dead.
	After Israel lost 13 over the last week, they decided they're going to start to, I guess, operating in some different way.
	22 Palestinians dead.
	One day of clashes.
	22 Palestinians.
	Boy.
	The situation in the Middle East is just getting hotter and hotter and hotter, as it was said it would.
	The ghastly discovery of, now they're saying, I heard on the news, it could be up to 300 bodies in the woods near a Georgia crematorium has illustrated what consumer advocates say is a total lack of state regulation and oversight of the industry other than EPA.
	You know, the emissions that a crematorium would have.
	There's not a whole lot of control.
	There's a horrible story from Egypt.
	I don't know if you've been following this, but apparently, you know, I was talking to Ramona who said that people, now remember this, in a lot of third world countries, we experienced this in China, Communist China.
	A long train, boy was that a scary train ride.
	That really, it was the scariest train ride of our lives.
	Not exactly what you would call luxury accommodations.
	You know, you're on benches, you're with the other Chinese, and we were racing through the night.
	And I mean through the night.
	On this rickety old train, with bathrooms that no American would ever go in.
	Toward the border area, but pretty deep in Communist China.
	And there were Red Guards everywhere, and they watch you very closely, and you get a lot of very strong advice from the people who are leading the party about how you act and how you don't act when you're in China, because if you act the wrong way, they will not read you your rights.
	Believe me.
	But on a train apparently like that in Egypt, A fire started because somebody was cooking something or had something to keep them warm or whatever and it was toward the front of the train.
	And somehow they didn't know that the fire was going on.
	They're doing 70, 80 miles an hour.
	And of course the fire just raced to the rear of the train.
	Scores of people were trapped inside some by window grills.
	And there are many dead.
	370 dead, they think, right now.
	Horrible.
	You can imagine, as the fire raced backwards, what it must have been like.
	Not a good way to die.
	The Supreme Court today urged to keep mentally retarded killers off state death rows by declaring those executions unconstitutionally cruel and unusual punishment.
	The case turns on whether the public's attitude about those executions may have changed since 1989, when the court upheld them by a 5-4 vote.
	How do you feel about that?
	It's a tight one for the courts.
	It's going to be a tight one for everybody.
	What do you do with a mentally retarded person?
	Do you execute them?
	Do you really consider them responsible for their actions?
	And at what line of mental retardation or IQ level, where is that line?
	They have to establish, it seems, something.
	Because, you know, executing complete idiots, I don't think should be our national business.
	And so if I was a Supreme Court judge, I'd probably establish a line.
	You have to.
	It's hard to do.
	It's like, below a certain age, a minor as a minor doesn't get a record as an adult, is not tried as an adult normally.
	And you need some kind of line like that, it seems to me, for those you would execute and those you would say, no, they're just not here.
	Not all there, certainly not here.
	And so you don't kill somebody like that.
	Or do you?
	Supreme Court said yes 5-4 a lot of years ago.
	I wonder how people feel about that now.
	So you see, that's what I mean about the news.
	If you listen to the news, and I just read you the top stories airing right now, it's at least, it's much more gruesome than anything I typically discuss.
	Maybe not, well yes, every bit is scary really too.
	So, you see, the real world isn't all that different in almost every respect from that which some people consider unreal.
	Now, here's a pretty interesting letter, and it's got a website back up.
	Hello, Mr. Bell.
	Oh, no, it's the next one.
	Hello, Mr. Bell.
	I lived in Ellensburg, meaning Ellensburg, Washington, home of the whole, for nearly three years, some number of years.
	Pretty wild place there.
	I truly believe that the holes exist.
	Notice I said holes, plural.
	See, in the course of routine socializing at the time I resided in Ellensburg, I was made privy to some ancient lore about some kid at a beer party.
	Seems that a bunch of guys had been up at Lion's Rock spotting some elk.
	When he stumbled into, and apparently into, a very large hole, his buddy, Also in pursuit of the elusive Peabury Bush managed to stop when he heard screams from below his feet.
	Three people at the scene swear they could still hear his screams faintly after 30 seconds of the most heart-wrenching noise imaginable.
	There is now supposedly a cabin built over the hole And the Indians in the area hold sacred rituals there, sacrificing occasional offerings to the great chief.
	Very hush-hush kind of stuff, he thinks.
	Well, it sounded fishy to me, too.
	I never thought much about the deep hole thing until your recent Ellensburg shows.
	I thought I'd pass this along at the time.
	I figured it must be a vent.
	Perhaps it opened up during the last time Rainier erupted or something like that.
	Kind of sad to think about some guy dumping tires down a natural phenomena like that, though.
	Because everybody gets by the best way they know how.
	And then there's this, and we do have a photo on the website now for this.
	I don't know why I thought it interesting, but I did, from Wayne.
	Art just wanted to drop you a note about a very weird experience that just happened.
	I was on my south side porch when I heard some branches breaking.
	And I quickly ducked.
	You know, I thought something was going to fall on me.
	Something fell, alright.
	It was a three liter bottle of, I think, soda.
	Not too strange, except there was nobody around.
	And it was frozen solid.
	Right now, it's 45 degrees outside and haven't had freezing weather for weeks now.
	The bottle is heavy.
	And I don't think I could throw it 20 feet, much less have it smashed through an extremely large tree.
	So I called the police, and asked them, please don't think I'm some kind of nut, and explained what had happened.
	They sent two officers over to look at the bottle.
	They did look at it, and dropped it on the concrete, and said, it sure is frozen.
	And thanks for the story of the night.
	Now we have something to talk about, and asked me to throw it away.
	End of story.
	Think I'll keep the bottle until I find out who sells this kind of pop.
	Good night, Wayne!
	And, uh, he sent along with it a picture that he took right away of the pop bottle on the ground, the frozen pop bottle.
	You know, you hear tree branches cracking above you.
	You know how it would sound, right?
	And here comes this bottle of frozen pop sailing down now.
	Just how exactly does that happen, anyway?
	Did that mean that somebody threw a bottle of pop out the window of an airplane or something?
	Possible, I suppose.
	Does that mean some freak weather condition sucked up a bottle of pop somewhere and in the upper atmosphere it froze solid as it would do?
	Then falling on poor Wayne.
	I have no idea.
	Either way, interesting.
	You pilots of small planes, you know, this is something I've always wondered if there's any pilots of small aircraft out there.
	How much of a temptation is it, you know, when you're up there flying around and you're by yourself and you could take a penny or a quarter or a bottle of pop and throw that sucker out the window?
	Now, you have to be aware, of course, that some poor shmoo down on the ground could get crowned by a bottle of frozen pop.
	Probably killed.
	Even a penny, it's my understanding, would do some pretty significant damage at terminal velocity, right?
	I've always wondered about that.
	Any of you small plane pilots comp to throwing anything out?
	Paper airplanes?
	Little messages?
	I don't know.
	Little things on parachutes?
	You ever throw anything out of a plane?
	Now here is a pretty interesting story.
	Last night I brought you the story about the Pope doing exorcisms, right?
	There are some statistics out tonight from Rome and the Zenit, Z-E-N-I-T, news agency, whatever that is.
	Exorcism requests often come from practitioners of the occult.
	23% have pathological problems, says Paris Archdiocese.
	Now listen to this.
	Very interesting.
	More than 30%, that's one-third of the people who request exorcisms, have engaged in activities like witchcraft.
	At last week's annual meeting of the French Catholic Exorcists, the Archdiocese outlined the profile of people who request the ritual.
	The Paris Archdiocese Service said that among individuals who request exorcism, 31% engage in witchcraft, spiritualism, or related activities.
	23% suffer from pathological problems like delirium, hallucinations, obsessions, anxiety crisis, suicide attempts, or visions.
	18% suffer from family problems like divorce or sexual abuse.
	15% suffer depression linked to loneliness, abortion, chronic unemployment, false guilt feelings, death tendencies, similar trends.
	So, basically about a third of the people requesting exorcism, and this is, it is really interesting, have engaged in what the church regards as As something that would put you in peril of your soul.
	Or of being possessed by some evil demon.
	31% the rest, well, whatever.
	But one third, that is, when you think about it, a pretty intriguing number.
	Now we take you back to the night of February 20th, 2002, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	And Now, this is kind of interesting.
	It comes from the Colombian capital and the Ananova website.
	Please say up to 50 groups of human vampires are operating in the Colombian capital, Bogota.
	That's right.
	What did I say?
	Please say up to 50 groups of human vampires are operating in the Colombian capital, Bogota.
	They dress in black, drink brandy mixed with human blood.
	Oh, my God.
	usually obtain human blood from contacts in transfusion centers or buy animal blood from the city.
	Police say groups of vampires, though, have recently begun stopping passers-by at gunpoint and forcing them to bare their necks presumably for some kind of donation.
	A police spokesperson said it's difficult to prosecute the groups because Witnesses are just afraid to come forward.
	They don't want to talk about it.
	Victims are also worried people will think they're crazy if they report the attacks.
	The authorities say they can't do anything about the vampires without hard evidence.
	and Colombia's freedom of religion laws mean the police can't stop and search people
	just because they're dressed like vampires.
	Interpol official Juan Prieto told newspaper El Spectator that he was worried that vampire numbers were increasing.
	Mr. Prieto said that vampires could be responsible for several unsolved murders in Bogota, adding, But we've got this problem proving it.
	So you've got to admit, it would be pretty weird indeed To be stopped on the street by, you know, a gunpoint or by whatever, and forced to donate some precious bodily fluids.
	Hey, you!
	That neck!
	Crane that neck!
	First time caller on the line, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Hi.
	Where are you, sir?
	I'm in Toronto.
	Toronto, Canada.
	All right.
	Welcome to the program.
	Glad to have you.
	Right on.
	I got it through.
	Yep.
	Go ahead.
	Yeah, I have a question.
	Okay.
	It's about Mel's Hall.
	Yes?
	Yes.
	I was sitting talking to one of my friends about this.
	We were talking about Mel's Hall.
	You were talking about people who cannot die, live on.
	Unbreakable, yes.
	Unbreakable, that's the word I was looking for.
	Right.
	Well, I was thinking, Mel, who found this hall, He turned around, he got electrocuted.
	Like some kind of shock.
	It's like therapy.
	For people who had, um, cancer?
	Well, if the government would honor Mel's request, and it was in the contract he supposedly drew up with them when they took over the hole, Mel is to be buried by being tossed into the hole now.
	Oh, really?
	Oh, yes.
	Now, there are certain stories to indicate that things that are thrown into the hole do achieve some sort of immortality.
	Now, it may not be what Mel expects.
	There was a story of the dog that went in the hole.
	You know, it was dead, and then came back out of the hole, and I would presume that Mel, putting that clause in the deal, is imagining that if he's tossed into the hole, he may live again.
	And he may live again, you never know, but what if it's like Night of the Living Dead, where anything that's thrown in there does come back out again, but... Something like Pet Sematary.
	Something like Pet Sematary, yeah.
	No, I was talking about the movie.
	Oh, well, yeah, exactly like pet cemeteries, you're correct.
	That's just what it's like.
	I mean, that's something Mel has to take into consideration before his final breath is drawn, whether he must modify that or not.
	It'd be a long climb up out of Mel's hole, wouldn't it?
	Maybe the impossible climb, but the dog made it, after all.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
	Some of them want to get used by you.
	Sweet dreams are made of this.
	Who am I to disagree?
	Travel the world.
	Who am I to disagree?
	The hollow city streets beating.
	Night from the neon's turned the dark to day.
	We were too hot to think of sleeping.
	We had to get out before the magic got away.
	We were running with the night.
	Hanging in the shadows.
	From two at night to the morning light.
	We were running, oh, running with the night.
	We were looking so good, girl.
	It's the time.
	You and me on the town.
	We let it all pay.
	There was enough.
	We were running.
	Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired February 20th, 2002.
	Just running with the night.
	That's what we do here.
	Chasing shadows.
	Good morning everybody.
	Good morning everybody.
	It's great to be here.
	We've got Open Lines coming up next segment, then following that at the top of the hour, a very interesting gentleman, a very hard interview to get.
	Robert Bruce, who's pretty much a recluse all the way down in Australia.
	That's a 16-hour difference from here.
	He'll be talking to us about all sorts of things.
	OBEs, kundalini, clairvoyance, healing, psychic attacks.
	All kinds of interesting things coming up at the top of the hour.
	But open lines, straight ahead.
	stay right there you're listening to art bells somewhere in time
	Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
	Alright, that story I told you about the pump bottle, I'm checking right now, but probably... Yeah, here it is.
	Frozen bottle falls from sky.
	Yeah, it's good.
	It's got the email there.
	And, uh, it's got the picture of the pop bottle.
	Huh.
	Frozen, too.
	You can tell it's frozen.
	And you can see the broken tree branches.
	Remember that movie about the Coke bottle that fell out of the sky?
	What the hell's the name of that?
	Something of the gods.
	Anyway.
	Looks like that may be an alien pop bottle.
	Uh, let's see.
	Uh, what a way to begin.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art Bell.
	Where are you, sir?
	Um, I am in Morrison, Colorado, listening in on KHOW 630 AM.
	Now, that'd be the monster in Denver.
	Yes, sir.
	Yeah, well, my name's Tawasi, and I'm calling in tonight about Yucca Mountain.
	Uh, is that very close to Pahrump?
	Oh, you bet it is.
	In fact, I would imagine that a lot of people who would... The Gods Must Be Crazy, that was the name of that movie.
	The second one was better than the first.
	Was it?
	The Gods Must Be Crazy 2?
	Yeah, I did the second one.
	About Nevada and Yucca Mountain.
	Yes, the repository, we call it here.
	Well, President Bush says that the Department of Energy researched the tectonic soundness of that area and says that it's Fine and safe.
	Well, that's because they live in Washington.
	Well, yeah.
	Well, so, not even... Now, if you talk to our Senator, and by the way, I should be doing that, Senator Harry Reid, our Nevada Senator, of our Senators, I should interview him.
	Harry, I know Harry Reid a little bit.
	Harry, I'd love to have you on.
	I understand you're really pissed about this, really upset is what I've heard, and I'd love to put Harry on the air, let him say a few words.
	Well, as one of your loyal listeners, I'll send him a letter and say, you know what?
	I would like to hear you on the Art Bell Show, and though I'm not a constituent, please go on.
	by all means and i get everybody uh... is welcome to do that if you have any
	contact with harry rick and email and do it i'd love to have a motion
	uh... i live in the denver area not so far from i seventy there was a thing in today's paper saying that
	nuclear waste would go through the denver area to get out there yet come
	Oh brother, it's going to travel all over the place.
	And you know, while I don't necessarily buy this, they say there's a greater danger in the transportation of it than there is in the storage of it.
	Right.
	That may or may not be true.
	There probably is a danger in the transporting of it, I would imagine.
	But then we have to be these good custodians of this stuff for like hundreds of thousands of years.
	Right.
	I tend not to be as concerned about the storage of it as the shipment, just because I don't live in Nevada.
	But the point of my calling is this.
	About two weeks back, my mother passed away of cancer.
	It's a sad thing, but it happens to the best of us.
	Cancer is pretty much a man-made disease, and I see nuclear waste as being one of the largest contributors to cancer in our country.
	I don't know.
	It's just really toxic stuff.
	Yeah, I know it's extremely toxic, but the fact of the matter is, they have stored it, and they do check, and background radiation levels near these storage facilities are not any higher than they are anywhere else.
	Well, here in Colorado, we have Rocky Flats.
	They say.
	I wanted to add in there, they say.
	Now, yeah, I know about Rocky Flats, and of course up in Washington State, too, we've got a pretty big facility.
	Well, last year they found one of the cores from a nuclear bomb that they hadn't accounted for and didn't really know where it was.
	They found it out there in Rocky Flats.
	Now, these guys at the Department of Energy are really smart.
	How do you lose a great root-sized piece of nuclear waste?
	I don't know.
	I appreciate your call, sir.
	I don't know.
	That's a big horror to think about.
	Hey, Fred!
	One of them's gone!
	How big?
	That's one of the big 100 kilotoners.
	One of the really dirty ones, too.
	I don't know how you lose one of those.
	Anyway, I'm glad it's found.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Art?
	Yes.
	Yes, you got a suitcase?
	Do I have a suitcase?
	No.
	At least, yes.
	Yeah, well, Yucca Mountain, I'm not a constituent either.
	I'm in San Diego, California.
	Oh, yes.
	But, uh, no way.
	I'm sorry.
	Nuclear waste, nuclear power, the whole thing is the scourge of mankind.
	Well, you live near a nuclear power plant.
	Oh, thank you.
	In a lot of ways, actually.
	Wait, wait, wait.
	In a lot of ways.
	Now, they're going to not begin storing this stuff, I understand, if it's approved into, like, 2010 or something like that.
	But, um, in a lot of ways, I think that a nuclear power plant is of a more immediate danger, say, to you and your area than the storage would be at Yucca Mountain to me.
	And in reference to the show the other night when the gentleman was speaking of a nuclear power plant right next to the freeway where a truck could be driven up, that's where I live.
	And I will not name the location due to the security nature of the Well, everybody pretty much knows where it is.
	Yes, they do.
	All right, sir.
	I appreciate the call.
	Thank you.
	We have created this problem for ourselves in this country with nuclear power plants, and imagine the cost now to build a new nuclear plant in the age of terrorism, in the age of airplanes crashing into things, the cost, the additional cost, and there's bound to be some, of guarding these plants.
	Is going to drive the cost of nuclear power even further away from reality.
	So, first time caller on the line, you're on the air, hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	How are you?
	Okay, sir, where are you?
	I'm in Philadelphia, PA.
	Okay.
	I was calling about the, down in, with the body thing, with all the bodies they're finding.
	Georgia.
	Yeah, down there.
	I heard on the news up here that some of the bodies have been found mummified.
	Mummified?
	Yeah, like not all of them, but some of them have been mummified in some way.
	Oh my, my.
	I had not heard that.
	Where did you get that one?
	It was on the local news.
	Now, this was yesterday.
	You had asked yesterday if anybody knew why.
	Well, I was looking for motive, of course.
	I mean, now they're talking about as many as 300 bodies, right?
	And all I've heard is the guy said that the equipment was broken or something.
	I don't buy that at all.
	No, no.
	Not with the whole mummification thing or whatever.
	If they, in fact, were doing that down there, why would they all of a sudden release a story and then pull it?
	I don't have the slightest idea, sir.
	You saw this one on TV news or heard it on radio?
	Yeah, it was just on the local news.
	And this was yesterday, the 11 o'clock news, and I haven't heard anything about it since.
	That's pretty bizarre.
	I didn't know if maybe some of the other listeners had heard something about it.
	Well, mummification requires a very specific process, doesn't it?
	Yeah, and it takes a while to do, I would think.
	All right.
	I'll see what I can find out.
	I don't know a thing about it, sir.
	Thank you.
	All right.
	I have not heard the story, but if someone... Let's see.
	I don't know a lot about mummification, but it was done, of course, by the Egyptians and others with great success.
	So I wonder if they strictly meant that or something else.
	Anybody with any information on that is more than welcome to send it along to my email addresses.
	Those would be Art Bell at Minespring.com or Art Bell at AOL.com.
	Mummification.
	That's strange.
	Wildcard Line, you are on the air.
	Hello.
	Now you're on the air.
	I'm sorry, I didn't have the bot up.
	You're on the air now.
	Sorry, I was talking to myself for a second.
	It's Robert from LA.
	Yes, Robert.
	I heard the same story when you were talking about the mummification.
	It was on the news.
	Really?
	Yeah, what happens when a body or any living animal rots, what happens is a tissue, it
	can melt off, it can basically rot off the bones, but sometimes the skin actually seals
	and fuses itself.
	Have you ever, you've seen that in pictures where there are bodies and it's sort of, it's
	red and sealed.
	That's what they're talking about by mummification, the rotting process stops on some of the bodies.
	It's gruesome.
	Can you imagine 200 bodies laying there?
	Well, I'm now hearing almost 300.
	It seems impossible.
	And the only explanation offered so far is, well, the machine wasn't working or something.
	No, that's got to be a long period of time.
	I don't buy that for one second.
	Something else is going on with this.
	Something big is behind this story.
	I think he was doing it as a big haunted house that never worked out yet.
	As I was calling, basically, I was calling to tell you about the soda pop thing that's going through the tree.
	Oh, yes.
	That was an inter-dimensional soda pop bottle, Art.
	Wow!
	An inter-dimensional soda pop bottle.
	I have proof, complete proof.
	What is your proof?
	Now look, the guy, he says he doesn't recognize the label, right?
	He won't find it.
	Why?
	In our timeline, in our dimension, they make 2 liter bottles.
	You read, it said 3 liters.
	I can't read it.
	You said 3 liters.
	That isn't in our dimension.
	We have 2 liters in our dimension.
	Have you seen the bottle?
	No, I haven't, but if I knew where it was, I'd buy it.
	Alright, I appreciate the call, sir.
	An inter-dimensional bottle.
	This picture looks like it could be blown up easily.
	I don't quite read what it says on the bottle, but there is obviously a label on it.
	Now, I cannot quite read it.
	Somebody will blow it up very quickly and find out what it is.
	Weird story.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	I have a prediction.
	Am I too late?
	Well, you're never too late, but you're too late to have it officially recorded on our list, but you're welcome to make it and just you're doing that on the air.
	Obviously, we'll register it in the minds of many.
	I'd say that's a pretty good guess.
	Oh, I don't know.
	Yeah, I think I'm sure that one of the predictions involved that.
	pretty good guess. Yeah, someone already predicted it? Oh, I don't know. I think I'm sure that
	one of the predictions involved that. The Chinese want Taiwan. Oh yeah, and they're
	going to seize this opportunity when we're doing other things.
	And as far as we are concerned, Taiwan belongs to them.
	And actually, in a lot of ways, they have a fair case.
	It'd be interesting to see what the U.S.
	would do if they decided to do it.
	I have a question for you.
	Is there a correlation between Native American heritage and people predicting things?
	Or is that just something I've noticed?
	Well, there is a rich tradition of Native American Prediction.
	Certainly, just as we have, as Christians have, a very rich tradition.
	Boy, I get in trouble for that, right?
	And records of predictions that are made in the Bible.
	Native Americans have them, and every religion on the face of the earth has these predictions and visions from some of the early religious leaders that began these various religions.
	So, yes.
	East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art.
	Hi.
	First, I want to ask you about the Mothman Prophecies.
	Have you seen that movie?
	No, I have not yet seen it.
	I interviewed the man who wrote the Mothman Prophecies.
	You should go see the movie.
	I thought it was really good.
	Sunday night, I was listening to a station out of Cincinnati.
	I don't know what the call letters were.
	Bill Boshears, I believe?
	Yeah.
	And for two hours straight, he took calls from people around Cincinnati who were seeing UFOs, and apparently there was a big flap.
	Oh, there was a big flap, a gigantic flap.
	People were saying in some cases they were so low, one man said that he could run out and almost touch one of these so-called UFOs, and they were all over the place, a gigantic flap going on, no question about it.
	Okay, I'm sorry.
	I missed you mentioning that because... No, you didn't.
	I haven't mentioned it until just now, so you didn't miss it.
	Oh, wow.
	Well, yeah, it was amazing.
	I mean, collar after collar after collar, seeing large triangular objects hovering and many different UFOs.
	That's right.
	It was really interesting.
	No, you're absolutely right.
	I appreciate the call, sir, and I'm sure we'll get a formal report on all of that, but it was a big flap, big flap the other night in that area.
	Many, many people.
	I wonder why we call them flaps.
	I wonder where that term originated.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Good morning, Art.
	Good morning.
	I'm around the Colorado River.
	K-Talks.
	Yes, sir.
	Earlier we were talking about somebody that was mentally retarded and why they should or should not be executed.
	Well, the Supreme Court had a split, very split decision on it.
	Voting to execute them was a story, and then I sort of talked about what do we do about this?
	How do we handle it?
	Okay, do you remember in Costa Mesa there's a hospital off of Harvard Boulevard?
	Yes.
	Okay, that hospital's for basically mentally retarded people, period.
	Yes.
	Okay, and Most people don't realize how dangerous the people that are in there are.
	What is your point?
	The point is, the lower the intelligence of the individual, the less they are able to He retrained from, example, in that hospital, many rapes, many attacks on people.
	That is true.
	Okay, that's the reason.
	The reason for what?
	The reason for what is that these mentally retarded people, as you drop the points, these people become extremely dangerous.
	Yeah, I already got that.
	The whole controversy surrounds not the fact that we keep severely mentally retarded people in facilities, but whether or not you execute them for capital crimes, and whether they are responsible.
	And at what level, at what IQ level, is the cutoff point going to be established?
	If there is going to be one established, I think there ought to be.
	You don't execute people who are simply, totally not responsible for their actions, because as I said earlier, they're not here.
	They're not here.
	They're there.
	They're somewhere else.
	They're just not here.
	And if our society... I'm a very strong advocate of the death penalty, but when it comes to the severely retarded, I'm not so strong an advocate.
	I think there are limits, just like there are limits of execution of youth.
	We don't execute really young people.
	Oh, I must say, we've been executing younger and younger.
	Well, I guess they wait until they're 21, but I'm talking about imposing life or death sentences on people who commit capital crimes.
	We treat youth differently, and I would think we would treat the severely mentally retarded differently as well.
	Where you draw the line, that's what those incredible men have to decide at the U.S.
	Supreme Court.
	Can you imagine considering and rendering judgment on such issues?
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yeah, hello.
	Hi.
	Yeah, hi.
	I always wanted to let you know, this is kind of a prediction.
	KFYI, Phoenix, 550 News Talk Radio.
	Yes, sir.
	Jesus has said, the cup of iniquity is full.
	And this is preordained that this call got through.
	Very quickly, sir.
	Okay, very quickly.
	And he will withhold judgment until March 10th.
	Look for a very large earthquake to hit the Spokane, Washington area March 10th.
	Alright, I've got that down.
	Hope it doesn't happen.
	It's right in line with the prediction of many others regarding the middle of March.
	A sort of a window for something big to occur, probably somewhere along the West Coast.
	I'm Art Bell, from the high desert.
	You're listening to Coast to Coast AM.
	We're about to traverse the entire globe, go to Australia for a few hours, and talk with somebody named Robert Bruce.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
	I've got to run, fight like the wind, to be free again.
	And I've got such a long way to go, make it to the border of Mexico.
	So I ride like the wind, to the border of Mexico.
	So I ride like the wind, to the border of Mexico.
	All the times have come.
	Here but now they're gone.
	Seasons don't fear the reaper.
	Nor do the wind, the sun or the rain.
	Come on baby, don't feel the reaper.
	Baby take my hand, don't feel the reaper.
	We'll be able to fly, don't feel the reaper.
	Baby I'm your man.
	La la la la la la.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
	Indeed, it is top of the morning to you, everybody, or whatever time of day it is, wherever you are.
	For over 25 years, Robert Bruce has actively explored mechanics, the energetics and dynamics of all things considered paranormal, especially OBE, the human Energy body, Kundalini, clairvoyance, healing, occult criminality, countermeasures, psychic attack and self-defense.
	While disliking labels, Robert is probably best called a metaphysicist.
	Somewhat of a recluse.
	That's what they call me too.
	Something of a recluse.
	Robert is rarely seen in public and his services have never been for hire.
	Never.
	Robert values his privacy and prefers to use his abilities helping others and, of course, as search tools.
	Robert is the author of Astral Dynamics and was co-founder of the book Capturing the Aura.
	He currently has several books and tutorials underway.
	His worldwide website carries some of his earlier written work.
	These are now being regularly updated with new materials relating to Robert's work and interests.
	Born in England, He currently resides in the land down under near Sydney in sunny Australia, home of the year 2000 Olympics.
	Of course now we've got Salt Lake City going on.
	So actually he is in Australia and we had to dial about three times to get what is a decent connection, which I hope we have.
	We'll test that theory in a moment.
	Alright, we have two major subjects that we're going to cover with With Robert tonight, one concerns astral dynamics, and one concerns his new book, which I want to begin with.
	I want to do things a little bit backwards.
	Practical Psychic Self-Defense.
	And first of all, from, I think, are you in Perth, Australia, Robert?
	Yeah, round about that way.
	Round about that way, okay.
	Yeah, near the Black Stump, yeah.
	Okay, well, welcome to the program.
	It certainly is great to have you.
	I guess it's, what, the middle of the day there, or morning, or something?
	Yeah, great to talk to you too, mate.
	It's about 3 p.m.
	here.
	About 3 in the afternoon?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Well, that's more comfortable than it is for a lot of the people on the receiving side of this program right now, middle of the night here.
	Yeah, I could imagine.
	Robert, I did an entire program one night not very long ago For people who have been psychically attacked, in some cases by entities, Robert, with physical bruising, sometimes while sleeping, sometimes at other times of the day.
	But I did an entire program simply talking to people who have been attacked by they don't know what, entities or something.
	What can you tell me about what might be out there?
	Is this real?
	Yes, it is very real.
	Unfortunately, modern scientific materialistic thinking ends at the physical body, begins and ends there, and they don't recognize anything beyond the mind.
	But yes, entity attacks from negative spiritual beings, what I call necks, which covers Any kind of entity, whether it's a demon or an evil spirit or an earthbound spirit gone bad.
	No, they're very real and they can do physical damage.
	I've had quite a lot of physical damage myself over the years from attacks like that and I've helped a lot of people with similar problems.
	Even one you don't always get.
	Yes.
	but it can be a result in extreme cases.
	News in the last couple of days has also been fascinating.
	There's a Vatican spokesperson saying that the Pope has been doing exorcisms.
	It was an amazing story, Robert, in which young women were spitting out parts of transistor radios.
	I don't know whether you saw the report or not.
	Just amazing stories from the Vatican of our current Pope doing exorcisms, one as recently, I think they said, as in September.
	Had you read that?
	No, I haven't, but I have some contacts at the Vatican, particularly with Monsignor Balducci, the epidemiologist there.
	And, yes, I'm aware the Pope does exorcisms, and there's been quite a bit written about them.
	People vomiting feathers, coal, fire.
	Yes.
	But this is typical demonic manifestations.
	They're quite predictable, really.
	All right.
	Can you talk to what are the various sorts of things out there?
	I mean, what are we dealing with, Robert?
	Are these really demons as the Catholic Church considers them representatives of Lucifer inhabiting the bodies of human beings for periods of time?
	Are these the minions of his?
	Are these just sort of spirits that are here on earth, maybe of the once departed?
	Maybe they were lousy personalities in life and now they're lousy personalities in death?
	I mean, what are we dealing with?
	All of the above, Art.
	All of the above?
	All of that.
	Yes, there are demons.
	If you believe in angels, Art, by default you really believe in demons because they're opposite numbers of each other.
	If you look into the Kabbalah, you will see the hierarchical rankings of the opposing forces, you could say.
	Angels on one side, demons on the other.
	But beneath the demonic ranking there's a lot of different types of evil spirits.
	what i call after a while before the the lowest of the law silly harmless uh... talks to just try and scare you and
	might do a bit of political activity
	above that you get some quite nasty uh... evil spirits
	uh... astral spikes and spiders and will win a little bit let's go back for a second astral
	wildlife i love that terms
	there are a lot of uh...
	is that sort of like I mean, it's a term that I don't understand.
	I sort of understand it.
	Astral wildlife.
	Does that mean some lower level spirits?
	Yes.
	I'm sorry I'm struggling with this because I want to understand.
	Is it like animals?
	In a way, yes.
	A lot of them seem animalistic.
	Keep in mind these are my terms for them.
	I've researched the out-of-body environment quite thoroughly over many, many years, and obviously spent a lot of time there, and I took a fresh approach to all that, and tried to work things out and discover for myself, so these are my terms for them.
	The lowest of the low order would be the types of entities that hang around new projectors and attempt to scare them and frighten them out of it.
	Uh, higher up you get some nastier types.
	And the stronger they are, the more rare they are.
	Until you get to evil spirits and things which will actually attack people and harm them for their own reasons.
	Well, again, is it really evenly split among those, the departed human spirits who are still here on Earth, and true representatives fairly close in the hierarchy to his majesty of the lower world, or, you know, what?
	No, it's not really like that.
	You can take a classical, capitalistic view of it, of the angels versus demons, and as far as that goes, that seems to be fairly accurate.
	They are particular orders of beings.
	But beneath that, the majority of entities beneath that aren't demonic, you have elemental-type beings, and most of them are indifferent or harmless.
	They have their own agenda and their own purposes.
	But there are quite a significant amount of types out there that are predatory, opportunistic feeders, they attack people, and will attempt to I've heard it said frequently they feed particularly off fear, which they generate, I imagine, rather easily.
	Yes, well fear is not so much generating a type of energy.
	the life energy, the life force of human beings.
	I've heard it said frequently they feed particularly off fear, which they generate I imagine rather easily.
	Yes, well fear is not so much generating a type of energy, you could say they feed off fear metaphorically,
	but they actually feed off your life force.
	They initiate fear in a person by scaring a person and what that does that when you terrify somebody their natural inbuilt shields start to drop.
	It's like how if you have an animal that is absolutely terrified, say a dog, it will roll over and expose its throat and belly.
	That's right.
	It's not a submission, it's like it opens you right up and then they can and gain further access to your mind and your energy body
	for whatever they want to do depending on the type of course. I have a OBE question for
	you and I'm going to set it up this way Robert I have talked
	and I realize that you are an expert in this area but I've talked to
	a lot of people about out of body I've had a couple of pretty wild little experiences myself.
	So I know it's absolutely possible and it's real, but every single expert that I've ever asked about OBEs, one critical juncture that we always get to, Robert, is the following.
	When you are out of your body, Is there any additional danger to you in any way?
	Could you encounter negative forces?
	Could you perhaps even be subject More likely of a possession when you're out of your body.
	Could something possess your body?
	Or could something go wrong?
	Or could something negative happen to you?
	And every expert I've talked to on OBE's has always said, Oh absolutely not!
	It is the safest thing in the world to do.
	That anything that goes wrong will take you right back to your body right away.
	Nothing evil can happen.
	You cannot be possessed.
	What do you say?
	I agree with them in part, but there are a few things that can go wrong that can injure you.
	You can come across evil spirits and demons during an out-of-body experience and you can get into trouble.
	Not so much physically, keeping in mind you never actually leave your physical body.
	The original copy of your mind and your memory and your spirit always stay in the body.
	During an out-of-body experience, Your body generates a perfect energy copy of itself.
	Really?
	A thinking copy, which is you.
	Really?
	And at the moment you have an OBE, there is something that I call the mind split occurs.
	When you split into two completely separate beings.
	And this normally happens while you're asleep, but with training you can stay awake and have actually two of you functioning at the same time.
	And so, as this is an energy copy, If you do get into trouble out of body, and I've tested this to the limits, if you do get out of trouble, if that projected copy of yours is damaged or destroyed, the original copies of you are safe inside your physical body.
	They never leave it while you still live.
	But you can suffer energy depletion and if your astral body is injured, those injuries can translate.
	into the physical body and you can get strange marks as you were saying earlier people are getting physical injuries on their bodies.
	Oh Robert, I had a whole night of it.
	I mean four solid hours of people being attacked either psychically or actually physically.
	It is far more common than people believe.
	I'm sorry, we've got a little delay here, so we've got to be careful, but my comment was obviously it's a lot more common than people would say, lest I could not sit here with jammed lines for four hours.
	It was amazing.
	Yes, yeah, it is.
	Yeah, I don't know what the percentage would be, but I would say I've dealt with hundreds and hundreds of people with problems from possession to heavy influence problems and that, and it's probably 10% of the population suffer this sort of problem at some time or other.
	I've got some figures of my own tonight that come again from the Vatican and they said that about 31% of those who ask, yeah here it is, more than 30% of the people who request exorcisms have engaged in activities like witchcraft According to the Paris Archdiocese, and then they break it down from there, 23% suffer pathological problems, delirium, hallucinations, so forth, 15% suffering depression, but a full 31% of those asking for exorcisms have been in the darker, you know, witchcraft, that sort of thing.
	Yes, that would be pretty accurate.
	If you look at the other percentage though, I would like to point out here, which comes first, the chicken or the egg?
	If you've ever suffered a psychic assault and a good psychic attack will usually last about a month.
	That causes depression. It can cause hallucinations. It can cause all of the problems you talked
	about there.
	Psychological disorders, stress trauma, all of that can be caused by the actual
	psychic attack or entity attacks.
	So you're saying their percentages may be skewed because some of the other, those 23%, may be really under psychic attack?
	Very possibly.
	They could also be paying lip service to modern science, trying to justify it, to find a bit of support for it.
	But yes, in my experience, everybody who is under a psychic attack has some mental Uh, disorder.
	Because a psychic attack unhinges you.
	It is very distressing, and it will cause a temporary, usually, mental disturbance.
	Have you been psychically attacked yourself?
	Oh, yes.
	I've been... I've had regular psychic attacks, including demonic attacks, for the last 15 years.
	Up until... That was since the time I became possessed, as I mentioned to your producer.
	Well, you didn't mention it to me.
	What do you mean, possessed?
	Well, it's a long story.
	I've been working in this field for quite a long time, and in my late twenties, I came across people who had entity problems and possession.
	I was working as a healer, so I tried to help them.
	And I helped several people with obvious... I was talking about rolling around, thrashing on the floor type possession.
	I've, you know, released several people like that, but I was immune from any attacks myself until the time I tried to exercise a five-year-old boy who had horrific problems.
	Where was this?
	This was in Australia.
	In Australia.
	A five-year-old boy.
	What kind of problems was he having?
	Frequent manifestations, occult manifestations around him.
	I should say paranormal, not occult.
	Lots of poltergeist activity, ghostly shapes around the house, night terrors, the full bit, learning disorders, speech disorders, lots of physical stuff as well.
	Oh brother, so I take it that you were sort of a last resort.
	People would do a lot of other things, wouldn't they, before they'd come to somebody like you?
	Yes, this family was helping and trying everything to help their little boy.
	The doctors gave them medications and things and called in psychiatrists and that because the symptoms of entity attack in a child are identical to child sexual abuse.
	They have exactly the same symptoms psychologically.
	I can imagine they would.
	Because that is what's happening.
	If you take such a child to a doctor and explain the symptoms, he will automatically be reaching for the telephone to call in the psychologist.
	And possibly the police to investigate.
	So anyway, they'd run out of options and they'd come across me through some friends.
	By word of mouth.
	And I tried to help this child and I still had never really suffered a major possession attack myself.
	And I tried everything I knew to release this child and it would not go.
	I managed to release him temporarily for a few days at a time.
	But it will always come back.
	Did you identify what it was that was inhabiting this child?
	Yes, it was a demon, yeah.
	The demonic hierarchy, yeah.
	Very nasty.
	A high level demon then?
	Yes, it was, yeah.
	The boy was totally enamored by it and kept calling back.
	Do you have any idea why it picked this boy?
	No, this is very hard to work out.
	You can look at karma and things like that, anything you like.
	I mean, this boy came from a fairly clean living household, you know, non-drinking, non-smoking, just normal people.
	All right, I want to get the whole story.
	We're at the half-hour mark, so hold on, stay right there.
	And we'll come back and we'll talk about the five-year-old boy and then apparently what happened to you.
	Exorcism is a very, very dangerous business.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM
	from February 20th, 2002.
	♪ Stares to the sky like a bird of light and ♪ ♪ Who will be her lover? ♪
	♪ Why in life you never see a woman ♪ ♪ Drinking by the wind? ♪
	♪ Would you stay and she'd promise you ever? ♪ ♪ Will you ever win? ♪
	♪ She is like a cat in the dark and then she is the darkness. ♪
	♪ She was alive like a fine starlight and when the sky just starless. ♪
	♪ Why in life you never see a woman... ♪ ♪♪
	♪♪ ♪♪
	♪♪ ♪♪
	♪♪ You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
	It is, and on the other side of the world, we're speaking with Robert Bruce, who's written a couple of very interesting books.
	One about astral dynamics, and the other I'm about to be out on the market.
	Practical psychic self-defense.
	He's way down in Australia.
	And he's an expert in these matters.
	Quite obviously.
	We're in the middle of a story about a five-year-old child.
	We'll get back to that in a moment.
	Just a brief bit of news for you.
	The sun is going berserk again.
	And I mean really berserk.
	You should see the line of M-class flares that are occurring.
	And they're talking about the possibility of a large X-class flare.
	So when we should be on the downside of things, the star that gives us all life is really going crazy up
	there right now.
	We're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
	Once again to the other side of the world, in Australia, Robert Bruce from Coast to Coast AM.
	Robert, welcome back.
	This five-year-old child that you were asked to assist, probably as a last-ditch kind of effort.
	Describe what you did and tell me how long it took.
	Well, what I normally do in a case like that is I put myself into a full trance.
	Connect with my higher self and normally I just give healing at that level and it removes anything.
	That was back then.
	What I did, I tried everything I could to shift this thing out of this child and there was a lot of heavy manifestations in the room while I was doing this.
	His mother was watching and including, you know, the child's eyes glowed red and that sort of thing.
	In desperation, I was running out of ideas and things to do.
	I did something very, very foolish.
	I told this thing, basically, take me and leave the child.
	Oh.
	Yeah.
	That is, in essence, giving it permission, then.
	Yes.
	Exactly, which seems to be an important issue, especially with demons of higher order entities.
	And the instant I did that, it struck me.
	In a way, it hit me in the mouth.
	In the lower right lip.
	Paralyzed me.
	And where it hit me is quite important.
	It swelled up very, very quickly.
	And I had a lump there the size of a walnut.
	And I was paralyzed and tortured is the only way I could describe it for about probably 15 minutes.
	In what manner?
	Can you describe what you felt?
	Yes, apart from the incredible pressure on my mind, it felt like I was in a vice from the waist down and my legs and hips were being crushed.
	It was incredibly painful, almost like it drove me to the edge of insanity even.
	And then it broke away and I collapsed on the floor.
	I had a blood nose and a big swelling in the lip and that and I was a bit shaken up but I felt okay.
	But to go on with what happened after that, leaving the boy behind, I failed then obviously.
	A few days later I was sitting reading and my right hand just reached out and grabbed something and threw it against the wall.
	On its own.
	Without my bidding.
	And that shocked me.
	And over the next few days there were more and more losses of control.
	My leg would reach out and kick something on its own.
	These were not jerky, like, nerve movements.
	These were fluid movements.
	My hand would reach out and grab a glass and throw it on the floor.
	Oh, God, that's weird.
	Yes, and I couldn't feel my hand doing it.
	It just happened so quickly.
	I resorted to even, like, tying my hand to my side for a while, but that didn't work.
	Now, these episodes of loss of control continued over the weeks to build up.
	And I started having blackouts, well not really blackouts, I was aware of what I was doing but it was like I was pushed out of my body.
	And with my experience at OBE I know I was like in an out of body state and I was watching myself do things and say things that I had no control of.
	And so what was happening, this entity was learning how to control me.
	What is that like, Robert, to feel your arm or your leg or some part of your body do something you're not willing and telling it to do?
	I mean, something completely, totally alien.
	What does that feel like?
	It's freaky.
	It doesn't hurt.
	There's no pressure.
	I mean, this is not, you could say, not like a psychic attack when you've got feelings of dread and cold shivers everywhere.
	Your hand just goes out and does something very quickly.
	But you were completely aware that you didn't intend to do that.
	Then you just left wondering what the hell just happened.
	Yes, exactly.
	This started getting worse and it culminated in an episode on a rooftop car park.
	We'd driven into town, a friend of mine and his wife, and my wife, and we had the baby in the back of the car, my youngest son.
	And, uh, I got out, and we were ten stories up.
	And, uh, got the baby out of the car, as usual.
	And, as soon as I picked up the baby, it took complete control of me, which is what I call virtual puppetry.
	Oh, my God.
	And marched me to the edge of the rooftop car park to make me throw the baby off.
	Oh, my God.
	Yes, and jump after it.
	And, uh, I had no control.
	It was like, uh, you know how the car bogs when your wheels are just spinning?
	You're trying to move and do things, but you're just not connecting with your body?
	Yes.
	It's an amazing feeling.
	But with my experience with OB, I tried everything.
	I was no novice at that state, and I managed to regain control just at the last moment, and very quickly put the baby down.
	Alright, well that's going to cause me to immediately ask you about something, Robert.
	That's an incredible story you just told.
	Now, I have, in this country, story after story after story
	of people doing things like that in it explicable things that are just a little criminal and ax murderers and people
	who eat other people and
	throw people out of windows you name it and i've always called the head shakers because there's simply
	no rational way
	to understand why they did what they did I wonder if what you're talking about here in some percentage of those cases, or maybe even a high percentage of those cases, is what's really at work.
	Yes, definitely.
	I think when you have a case where a perfectly normal person suddenly loses control And does something horrific.
	I think that's a very clear sign of a possession attack.
	There was a case I heard of, um, a few years ago, where, um, this was in Australia, where a man who was a good father, um, nice man, uh, he was at home having dinner one day with his wife and his three daughters and his, uh, best friend there, and he just walked outside, picked up an axe, and killed everybody.
	He killed his friend, his wife, his daughters, the dog, the cat, even the budgie.
	And then he started on the neighbours.
	He was, of course, brought down and locked up.
	Police got there fairly quickly, thank God.
	Now, he was taken to jail and locked up and his mother was caught as the only surviving relative.
	And she went and saw her son and she walked out of there and she said, that is not my son.
	My son does not have a green face and red eyes.
	Thank you very much.
	But a couple of days later, or the next day, that man reverted to normal and was left to face the consequences of what had happened.
	And no amount of talking will get you out of that one.
	I take it, in Australia, you do not have the death penalty, do you?
	No.
	Here we do, Robert, and if people are convicted of a capital crime, particularly of that heinous nature, they're likely going to lose their own life because of it.
	That would be a kind thing to do.
	To a person who'd done something like that, because how could you live with that?
	You have the memory of doing that in your head.
	It's not like a blackout, usually.
	You usually have a memory of it.
	But, yes, it's very unfair.
	I guess if what you're saying is true, is true in a percentage of the cases, then yes, you would say it is unfair.
	Yes.
	Of course it's unprovable by modern science.
	They don't recognize it.
	Anything paranormal.
	Well, I wonder if that's about to change.
	I think it will do in the near future, yes, as our understanding increases.
	Now, of course, people are going to say that's going to lead to the devil made me do it defense, you know, and it certainly would.
	Those people would be right, but maybe you're right, too.
	It's not exactly the devil, but a demonic influence of some sort.
	You're really sure.
	In your own mind, Robert, I mean, to take a child in your arms to the edge of a precipice, to throw it off, have you ever tossed around in your own mind your own sanity?
	In other words, at that moment, it was not some sort of evil entity that was doing this to you, but rather some form of your own insanity.
	I've got to ask about that.
	Yes, I have done a lot of work on myself in that area.
	I've definitely considered that at great length.
	The symptoms I experienced were so alien, so outside of me, that it wasn't me doing it.
	I've seen this in other people.
	Very quickly, if somebody did use that as a defence, Common sense would say that you could not release a person like that back in the public again, because the danger would always be there.
	Until they were completely exorcised, which is a very difficult thing to do.
	Is the danger always there with you?
	With me?
	Yes, sir.
	No, no.
	No, I defeated this thing and released myself from it.
	Now, how did you do that?
	Right, what I did was, I There is no cure for something like that.
	I had the choice.
	I could either kill myself, have myself locked up, or find another way.
	Did you consider those things?
	Yes, I did.
	Definitely, yeah.
	Yeah.
	And, um, no, it's a hell of a thing.
	I mean, you know, literally a hell of a thing.
	You know you are losing control.
	And you can't do anything about it, and you know what it is, but most people recognize it.
	Well, as you walked to the precipice with that child in your arms, you were aware of what you were doing, right?
	You could see... Yes, I was aware of what was happening.
	You could see what you were doing, you could feel what you were doing, but you couldn't stop what you were doing.
	I'll tell you how it was.
	I wasn't looking through my eyes.
	It was like I was standing about four feet behind and to the side, watching myself doing it from a distance, third person.
	I wasn't inside my body.
	Wow.
	It was an OB type experience and it's just spinning your wheels.
	Nothing will work.
	It's a total puppetry type state.
	But releasing myself was how I discovered a lot of the things I put into my new book, Countermeasures in Practical Psychosoft Defense.
	And you are convinced that the entity that was driving you to the edge with this child was the same one That entered you from that five-year-old?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	That never really left, I guess?
	There are certain indicators.
	One of them is a lump in my mouth, which over a few days hardened to a gristly lump, a granuloma-type lump.
	Now, if you do some digging and read the Witch Hunter's Handbook and old Vatican records, and there's millions of texts written on demonology around the world, You will see references to something called Stigmata Diabolis.
	That's right.
	With the devil's mark.
	Now, my work has shown that when a significant evil entity attaches to somebody, it causes a physical manifestation, usually some kind of skin blemish.
	Now, the most significant of these are the hard, gristly lumps.
	During the witch hunts, the primary method of identification was They would search the body for this stigmata diabolus mark.
	And according to them, you had to be able to push a needle into it, and it would neither hurt the person, and it wouldn't bleed.
	So it had to be a gristly type lump for that to occur.
	Now if that was found, you were nicked.
	There was no defense.
	But if they didn't find anything, you were released.
	And there are several cases on record where people have been released after a physical examination during the witch trials.
	How many innocent people during the witch trials were burned or executed or killed?
	That's hard to say.
	It was a very involved thing.
	There was a lot of money making going on and human nature and property stealing and stuff like that.
	The basic tenement to what they were searching for, there is some truth to it.
	In other words, there really were and are witches.
	Oh, definitely, which is, yeah.
	And you're saying there is a physical way to attack, is it a fairly flawless way to identify them?
	I wouldn't say flawless, because there are, you know, medical reasons why those sort of lumps and marks attach, you know, appear on your body.
	But, you know, you can't tell with that sort of lump.
	If that appears, very quickly, I mean almost instantly, At the time when you suffer something like a possession attack, then you could pretty well narrow it down to that is associated with what just happened, the psychic attack.
	And the interesting thing is here, when I release myself from this entity, that lump, the instant I release myself, that lump burst inside my mouth into a hundred pieces and bled, left a big hole inside my lip.
	I've still got the scar there.
	Wow.
	So that shows you the relationship.
	Now I've tried to be in touch with the Vatican over this, and I've emailed them and written them letters, including letters written in Italian, trying to get some comments and feedback on this, because if you are doing demonic exorcisms, you have to be blind not to notice the relationship between these lumps and the actual possession.
	During the time that you were possessed, and you were doing these things, particularly with a child, Robert, I guess in your lucid, self-possessed moments, you would consider something like killing yourself.
	How close did you come?
	Very close.
	I'm an honorable man, and that would be an honorable solution.
	And I would figure then that I would win by default, because I've never harmed anybody.
	I'm a very gentle man and it's just not in my nature to hurt anybody.
	I couldn't stand to do that.
	So that was a way out, but what I did was, I had no knowledge of what to do with this.
	I've been along to a few psychic healers and people who basically rolled their eyes back in their head and, you know, couldn't do anything for me.
	They tell you to visualize some white light or something, but it doesn't work.
	Not in a case like that.
	So what I did in desperation, my third choice was to literally do what I believed as a mystic and to basically surrender my life to God for direction.
	Because I figured logically, given all that I've done and all that I plan to do, including writing the books I've written and the ones I'll write in the future and helping people, my higher self, God, whatever you want to call it, would try and contact me with a message, some clue To help me.
	That's logical.
	Sure.
	So, grabbing the bull by the horns, I walked out and it was actually a stormy night, pouring down with rain, and I staggered through the wilderness for hours, bouncing off trees and things in the dark, knowing, and I was fully convinced that I would get a message.
	And the message came, the scrap of rotting paper stuck to my leg after I fell into a ditch.
	And there was writing on it, and I thought, yes, that's it.
	Whatever it says on there, there's a message there, I knew it.
	So I took that home and had a look at it, and it told me to, basically interpreting it, it was an advertisement for a tree nursery up in the hills, right out in, about 50 miles out of town, right in the bush, we call it over here.
	In the wilderness, in the hills.
	Yes.
	Very deserted area.
	And so I said, right, that's where I'm going.
	And I packed up a swag, and Couple of basics, like a blanket and that, and I headed out there.
	And I stayed out there in the hills for a week or so, starving, no food, just sleeping on the floor.
	And... Halfway through that I nearly died of thirst.
	I ran out of water, and I was miles from anywhere, I'd never make it home.
	And I got another little bit of guidance.
	I was sitting up on a hill, waiting to die, very dry, And I wrote a few notes to my family and figured I'd be found one day, because I wasn't taking that thing back with me.
	I was going to die first.
	I was absolutely committed to that.
	And I sort of said a prayer and said, hey, I could use a bit of help down here.
	And the most curious thing happened.
	It was a cloudless day, brilliant blue sky, and a tiny little cloud appeared a few hundred
	yards from me up above the valley.
	This got bigger and bigger and bigger until it formed this sizable little cloud, and this
	formed into the shape of a person, of a head and shoulders.
	Very very clear, very distinct.
	And this was a deity I'd encountered several months earlier when I'd raised my kundalini.
	You're certain you were not hallucinating because of the lack of...
	Listen, we'll pick it up right here.
	We've got the top of the hour coming up, so relax and we'll pick it up at that point.
	There are going to be those who will say, it was a delusion induced by dehydration, the lack of water.
	But others will know better.
	To some degree, it just depends on what you believe.
	This really is some story, isn't it?
	Robert Bruce from way, way down south in Australia is my guest.
	during the night time with coast to coast a m
	the the
	Every time I think about it, I want to cry.
	With bombs and the devil, little kids keep coming.
	No wait, it may be easy, no time to be young.
	Would I tell myself that I was doing alright?
	We're up to ourselves and we're doing alright There's nothing left to do at night
	Let the radio music, radio music Let me go crazy, crazy on you
	Let the radio music, radio music Let me go crazy, crazy on you
	Tonight's program originally aired February 20th, 2002.
	Just try and imagine, in your mind, feeling something, knowing something is in your body, watching in a detached fashion from a few feet away as you walk to the top of a roof with a child in your arms.
	Just try.
	Try and imagine that.
	Now we take you back to the night of February 20th, 2002, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Thanks for watching!
	Back now to Australia, and Robert Bruce, and Robert, please continue.
	Well, keep in mind first that this happened about 12 years ago or more.
	And I've learned a lot since then.
	It's been a big learning curve.
	Now, when this figure built up in the sky, it was big.
	I mean, the size of a building.
	Perfectly featured of this deity, which you encountered several months earlier.
	Now, I needed water.
	I wasn't here, say, dying at first at the time.
	I was, I reckon I had about four hours.
	Because the Australian wilderness, when it's 125 degrees in the shade, is pretty unforgiving.
	You haven't got long.
	Yes.
	And I was very dry, but I was not hallucinating.
	I know the difference.
	Anyway, I needed water, and I asked for help.
	And a bow and arrow appeared in the hands of this incredible being that was floating a few hundred yards above me.
	And it shot an arrow made of cloud very slowly out of this bow and the arrow hung in the sky and the head and shoulders disappeared.
	And I looked at the arrow, it was perfectly straight, had feathers, had the little triangular arrow head on the end.
	It was perfect!
	And a little idea came to me and I thought, I wonder... And I got my hand up there and I drew a line down the arrow and followed it down into the valley.
	and about two miles below me, two or three miles below me in the valley.
	I looked carefully at the area it was pointing to and I noticed a very, very faint green line amongst all the brown.
	To cut a long story short, I made it down to the hill I was on and went to this place it was pointing to
	and there was a tiny little stream there about two feet across.
	It was so well hidden in dense undergrowth I actually fell in it before I found it.
	I splashed and I found the water I needed.
	Now, there's more to it than that.
	It's not just that I found water.
	That was a very, very special place.
	Just beside it was a little spring, which was wider, where the water was flowing two directions, and the water was coming down the side of the hill and bubbling up there at that place.
	So it was a natural spring.
	And for the remainder of my time there, I'd been there a couple of days, I camped about 100 yards uphill of that, directly in line with it.
	Maybe 80 yards.
	And made a little bush camp there and slept there for a few days.
	And that was the trick.
	I was sleeping over the top of a running water stream, which has very, very strong positive energies.
	And I woke up on the second to last day I was there.
	Still feeling okay.
	I hadn't had any loss of control episodes.
	I was just very tired, hungry and you know, a bit of exposure.
	And it was about 5am and I started to walk down towards the stream to have a wash and this thing that was in me left me.
	This huge weight lifted off my shoulders and my mind and the lump in my lip burst into a hundred pieces.
	and I was spitting out bristle and blood and I had this big hole in my lip
	and I felt wonderful, so light and just full of love for everything, I just felt great
	and about 10 seconds later I came under the most god awful psychic attack of my life
	it dropped me to the floor screaming, every muscle in my body working against itself
	It was back or trying to get back or doing what?
	It was trying to get back at me It was attacking me full force.
	I got quite a bit of physical injuries out of that.
	I got a couple of hernias.
	Nearly bit my lip off.
	A couple of ruptured discs in my spine.
	Pretty nasty.
	I talk about it calmly now, but at the time you can imagine it was pretty horrific.
	That lasted for probably 15-20 seconds.
	And then it left me completely, because the daylight and that, it couldn't get back into me again.
	It was out.
	Evicted exercise, broken away.
	Where do you think it went?
	I have no idea where it calls home.
	Some dark, black, dimensional backwater.
	I don't know where it went, but it was definitely thrown out of me, and I'd say severely damaged, drained of energy.
	It couldn't get back into me.
	By the way, Robert, a lot of our top physicists, one of whom I'm due to interview again very shortly, Dr. Michio Kaku, has lectured in lectures constantly about other dimensions.
	Now, mainstream theoretical physics is beginning to really embrace the concept of multidimensional reality, as many as 11 or more dimensions, do you believe that these entities, these life forces, or at one time life forces, or whatever they are at various levels, reside in what we could loosely call another dimension, or is it something separate from even that?
	Yes, I think there are lower dimensional levels that are very negative levels where these things come from.
	They're below the normal spectrum of astral planes that you would normally project into.
	But they can, with an effort and with a reason, enter our realms and manifest here even in the physical dimension.
	I've seen them physically manifest over the years.
	You have never taken any money for helping anybody?
	No.
	I've never been able to do that, Arnie.
	It would be like me taking money from my children for loving them.
	It's just so... I'm a very compassionate man and I just can't bring myself to do it.
	Alright.
	I'm beginning to get a lot of questions by computer.
	And from Alberta, Canada.
	How can Robert And can Robert distinguish between demonic possession and psychiatric illness like schizophrenia and other psychoses?
	In other words, if you are in the presence of somebody displaying these remarkably similar maladies, can you distinguish, Robert, between the two?
	Yes, you can, but only for analysis.
	Very careful analysis of the case, the symptoms, What is happening to them?
	And you keep in mind there is always some kind of mental disturbance presence.
	All parapsychologists know this.
	When a group of parapsychologists check out a place, they always take along a trained observer to look for the mental disturbances and calculate the degree of them.
	You can tell the difference, but only through analysis.
	Some people are very clever.
	You get some crazy people, who may be schizophrenic, Believe they're under a sort of attack like that and they will try and fake the symptoms.
	It's a bit like hypochondriac illnesses.
	They try and fake the symptoms to get attention.
	I've had that many, many times, but normally if you're giving countermeasures and you're asking the right questions, then I know what happens in a real case.
	If I ask the person to do this, I know what the result will be and I know what these symptoms are like.
	So if I get the wrong answers back on some of these questions, I start to suspect.
	Something is not quite right.
	And some of the answers I get back are, you know, you could get the condition out of a book somewhere.
	But there's a lot of things.
	There was recently, Robert, here in the States, I don't know if the news made it to Australia, there was a woman who allegedly took each one of her children in turn, put them in the bathtub and drowned them.
	This is so horrific that it would seem to be a candidate possibly for something like this.
	It could be, yes.
	It would depend upon the case.
	You have to analyze it carefully.
	You cannot say carte blanche that everybody that does something like that is possessed.
	I mean, some people just go mad.
	And they do these terrible things for their own crazy reasons.
	You know, there is a case for that this must happen in a significant number of cases.
	Robert, let me ask you very quickly.
	You did consider suicide before you read yourself of this.
	What are, in your opinion, what are the cosmic consequences or the karmic consequences of suicide?
	Really, I'm just guessing at that.
	In my opinion, A lot of people disagree with me, but suicides do not face anything different in the afterlife than a person who dies from natural means.
	They have to face the consequences of their actions.
	They may have to come to terms with what they've done, which may take a long time.
	They may have to spend a lot of time in an astral hospital type area.
	Structured areas where people sort of sleep.
	It's not really a hospital.
	It's just an area where people go and they sort of rest.
	And they often relive parts of their lives until they understand it.
	But basically, that person would, you could say, they've blown a test in this life, failed to learn something, and probably have to relive it again.
	Have you, in astral travel, seen such areas?
	Yes, I have.
	I've been into them several times.
	Yeah, I've visited friends who've died.
	And things like that.
	Very interesting areas.
	They have a structure to them that appears to be like a hospital.
	But the people you see around, the doctors and nurses, are not real doctors and nurses.
	You're talking about a very subjective realm here.
	I see beneath that like a metaphysical spiritual area where people go to rest and to come to terms with their life.
	And when they've done that, they move on into one of the spirit worlds.
	How many different areas in astral travel are you personally aware of?
	And I know you're an expert in astral travel.
	How many areas are you aware of?
	In other words, I guess I'm asking you about the nature of the other side, or at least as much of it as you understand.
	The traditional view of the astral plane has been broken up into several major levels, and then each of those with multiple levels beneath them.
	Seems fairly accurate from my explorations of it.
	Especially if you look at the surface skins.
	Have you got a copy of my book, Andy?
	I do not.
	I'm sorry to say I would like to have a copy of your book, though, very much.
	Okay, don't worry.
	He's got four copies, I said.
	I see.
	Alright.
	Anyway, if you look at the back cover, I have an artist take out of my mind what the sixth astral plane, that's quite a high level plane, actually looks like, the surface skin of it.
	If you imagine an infinite space covered with intersecting grid lines, making an infinite number of squares, and each square contains a pattern.
	In the centre is, imagine it's like, this is all blue, deep blue.
	And in the centre of this, like floating, there is a pattern, which is like a huge lotus flower, a four petal gold flower, with like a violet coloured jewel in the centre, and some other little bits, but that's basically what it is, repeated over and over again.
	Now that's the basic astral plane level.
	Now if you penetrate that, you're in OBE state, you dive down and penetrate that, it doesn't Wherever you penetrate the astral plane skin will take you to a particular area inside of it.
	It is an amazing phenomenon and it's quite repeatable.
	Can you describe any of those areas?
	I've done so in my book, a few of them.
	The astral hospital area is one which I just spoke about.
	There are also different realms and some structured areas, some places look very wild and desolate.
	These are like huge worlds, universes, and traveling amongst them is very confusing.
	I remember one I wrote off in my book, I came down into it after crossing through the surface skin, and I came into a world where I was up in the clouds looking down on an ocean, there was islands and land around, and there were these beautiful ships, strange looking ships, sailing I think so, yes.
	peculiar looking people on them and all sorts of things like that it's just
	really weird uh... i plan to attempt to map them one day in the future which will take years and a number of
	projections to do it do you believe that we are uh... we are meant to understand
	uh... this much of the nature of what we call the other side
	i think so yes i think it's a part of man's natural evolution uh... spiritual
	intellectual evolution to understand these things.
	Out-of-body experience, for example, is a very natural thing that everybody does every night.
	Yes.
	They're just not aware of it.
	Normally a person just floats out of their body.
	I've gone through people's houses and I've seen people sleep in bed and floating above their body a couple of feet away is their projected double, mimicking the sleeping position.
	That's what most people do.
	And again, you suggest that there's a mind split effect, that there is one essential copy of you, the original, we can think of it that way I suppose, correct me if I'm wrong, and then a sort of a duplicate you that's able to travel outside the body in what we call an OBE.
	Yes, and this is actually provable if you have the skills.
	If you examine a lot of case histories on antibiotic spirits, you'll frequently come across People say they're having symptoms of duality and bilocation, where they are aware of themselves being in their bedroom, the clock ticking on the wall, the dog snoring, but they're also aware of themselves being somewhere else.
	All authors today have continued the empty body theory which started a hundred odd years
	ago with early authors like Muldoon where he considered that the actual spirit, your
	soul and your mind left your body and your body was left empty, an empty shell.
	And he considered that because your physical body is still alive, your ears were still
	working and therefore you would still hear things in the room around you.
	But you have to look deeper to understand the nature of that and I discovered the mind
	split effect during some deep trance energy work I was doing where I am sitting in a chair
	in the evening and I'm raising a lot of energy.
	I'm in a full delta level trance or deeper.
	I'm very, very stable in a very non-dual state, you could say.
	And I feel the out-of-body projection mechanism, I call it, kicking in.
	I get full body vibrations, rapid heartbeat.
	And I feel a projection occur, but then it stops.
	And a lot of people experience this.
	I feel the symptoms and then it stops.
	And I'm still in my chair and I'm still meditating and doing things and actually at the time I was turning around inside my skin using the etheric body to move around inside my physical body and I was experimenting with astral sight where you can see through closed eyelids.
	Hold that thought.
	We'll be right back.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	The Devil has made a very recent trip to Georgia.
	Hasn't he?
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
	in a bind, but he was way behind, he was willing to make a deal. When he came across this young
	man sewing on a fiddle and playing it hot, and the devil jumped up on a hickory stump
	and said, boy, let me tell you what. I guess you didn't know it, but I'm a fiddle player
	too, and if you care to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you. Now you play a pretty
	good fiddle, boy, but give the devil his due. I'll bet a fiddle of gold against your soul
	because I think I'm better than you. The boy said, my name's Johnny, and it might be a
	But I'll take your bet you're gonna regret, cause I'm the best there's ever been.
	Johnny, rosin up your bow and play your fiddle hard, cause hell's broke loose in Georgia and the devil deals the cards.
	And if you win you'll get this shiny fiddle made of gold But if you lose the devil gets your soul
	You got me running, going out of my mind You got me thinking that I'm wasting my time
	Don't bring me down No, no, no, no, no
	I'll tell you once more before I get off the floor Don't bring me down
	You want to stay out with your best friends I'm telling you it's got to be the end
	Don't bring me down No, no, no, no, no
	I'll tell you once more before I get off the floor Don't bring me down
	Don't bring me down Don't bring me down
	Don't bring me down Don't bring me down
	What happened to the girl I used to know?
	You left your mind out somewhere down the road Don't bring me down
	No, no, no, no, no to Art Bell somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
	Robert Bruce's book is one coming up is Practical Psychic Self-Defense.
	So we'll get into that aspect of it.
	In other words, what you can do if you're under psychic attack of some sort.
	What you can do to protect yourself.
	What you can do to stop whatever it is that's after you.
	That is, if you believe in these sorts of things.
	And I know many of you don't.
	Many of the rest of you know damn well it's true.
	Stay right where you are.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
	A map of what other dimensions are like.
	uh... where people reside who leave this life where others uh... trolls so to speak uh... without sure would be an interesting item to have and contemplate what it's like on the other side that would be a worthy project i would think robert trying to map the other side yes uh... at least to map the astral planes which is an enormous uh... area uh... with many many different levels uh... are the astral planes actually in fact where People go when they die, or is it just sort of one stopping off point on the journey after they pass?
	It's just one point.
	There are areas, as I said, astral hospital, rest type areas, but most people move on into one of the spirit worlds.
	There are several levels of spirit worlds, and I've been to some of them and met people, deceased relatives and that, of the past, friends that have died.
	And yeah, these are wake-induced high-level projections.
	They take quite a bit of energy and skill to get into them.
	Just taking one moment to do this.
	My audience is probably bored with it.
	I've had one OBE in my life.
	It occurred in Paris.
	I was on vacation in Paris, France, in bed next to my wife.
	In just one instant, I shot straight up out of the bed, and I was up above Paris.
	I was aware that I was way up above the city of Paris, to where I could just see a lot of France, and I had this overwhelming...
	I can't even describe it.
	This joyous, all-knowing, but pure joy, and some word that's beyond joy.
	And instantly I went right back into my body.
	I was so shaken up by the experience.
	I woke up.
	My wife told her all about it.
	I've never had anything like it in my life.
	A couple of times, Robert, I have felt the approach of an OBE.
	I've felt the vibration.
	I've felt the noise, the buzzing.
	I've felt the beginning of being paralyzed.
	But in every instant, Robert, I'm kind of a control freak, and I've yanked myself back, scared to death of it.
	And the one I had in Paris, I had no choice.
	I had no warning.
	Vibration, I have no anything.
	It just happened.
	It just, boom, happened like that.
	And I couldn't control it.
	It was wonderful and it was frightening at the same time.
	But in every other instant, I have stopped it cold because it's scary.
	It is, yes.
	The reason why you remembered the first one is probably because of your excitement and that pure sense of freedom you get.
	When you have that type of OBE.
	It's incredible.
	Mind-blowing experience.
	And I'd say the emotional content of that allowed you to remember it and probably jerks you back into your body as well.
	If you don't have a strong emotional content in your mind when you re-enter your physical body, you normally won't remember it.
	Your other cases, when you experience OBE-type symptoms like vibrations, heartbeat, hearing the rushing noises.
	You bet.
	And then it stops.
	You've probably got an OBE in progress at that time.
	Yeah, but that's a very, very uncomfortable feeling.
	And I mean really uncomfortable.
	It's extremely disconcerting.
	It's not something that anybody who likes control... I mean, it's so bad that it can cause nausea, Robert.
	I mean, it can cause you to feel sick.
	Yeah, definitely.
	The sensations with OBE, especially one when you're awake during the OBE exit, Can be enormous.
	The first couple of times I awakened Juice 1, I thought I was going to die.
	They were so strong.
	Yeah.
	I mean, your heart was going 300 beats a minute.
	You had these massive whole body vibrations.
	Yes.
	And a continual falling sensation.
	Yeah, oh yes.
	And this is all unknown territory.
	If you don't know what's happening, it is terrifying.
	But knowledge replaces fear.
	If you understand the mechanics of the process, which I focus on in my book, Astral Dynamics, It explains the process and takes a lot of the fear out of it if you understand what's happening.
	And then you can go with it and experience out-of-body experiences.
	But you know what it's like, Robert?
	It's like standing up on top of a cliff and looking down and seeing rocks a thousand feet below and jumping.
	And you know, having someone say, go ahead and jump, you'll be all right.
	You'll be okay.
	Jump.
	Yes.
	It's kind of like that.
	I could no more I'm not capable of it, Robert.
	You have the habit of having a physical body.
	So when you fly out or fly into the unknown, leaving your body, a lot of fear of the unknown is involved.
	And you can only replace that by a replacement of knowledge, talking to other people, reading about it, finding out what these symptoms are exactly, what are the vibrations, why is my heart racing?
	Your heart isn't racing!
	If you hook yourself up to an ECG, you'll find your heart barely ripples.
	But the heart chakra, one of your primary energy centers, which is normally involved with the OBE exit, is very, very active during the actual generation of the projected double.
	And it races, and it feels exactly like a rapid heartbeat.
	Very, very fast.
	And it's frightening.
	Uh, so frightening that again, it's like, it's like standing on that cliff and somebody next to you says, hey, don't worry about it, go ahead, jump, you'll be fine.
	No, no way.
	You first.
	So did you go, uh, uh, fall asleep after this, or did you find yourself paralyzed, or did you wake up and get out of bed, or?
	No, usually what I've done is, uh, I haven't even gotten out of bed, I just, I just, You know, you break out in the cold sweats, and you yank yourself away from it, you lie there for a while, and then you finally manage to fall back into a normal sleep.
	That's my experience, but I hold myself totally away from this stuff.
	It scares the bejesus out of me.
	Right.
	Well, if you did that, and you just shut your mind off to it and fell asleep, you probably had a successful OB at that time, but lost the memory download of it.
	When the projected double is generated, and there are two of you, it comes out of the body, there is a problem with the physical brain storing more than one memory at the same time.
	The brain is used to storing linear life experiences.
	When you have two sets, or three sets, if the brain-mind becomes active at the same time, it causes a lot of problems, and you either get a mixture, or what normally happens, the out-of-body experience side of the memory is just totally wiped.
	Multiple OBEs successfully, but you'll lose the... If you lose the memory download, without the memory, you'll never have one.
	Well, exactly what I was going to say.
	In other words, if you have no memory of it, then you have done nothing that adds to your life experience.
	Exactly.
	But if you have a successful OBE, and experiment a little bit, I mean, the first one you had in Paris, if you actually look at that, that was quite unintimidating and harmless.
	A joyful experience, you could say.
	No, it intimidated me.
	It intimidated you because you didn't understand what was happening?
	I mean, it was a wonderful thing, but there was none of this pre-warning stuff that we've discussed already that's pretty horrific as far as I'm concerned.
	It just, boom, happened like that.
	That often happens.
	Really?
	Yeah, it often happens.
	If you're in a state ready for OB, your physical body just lets you in like a trance state, Sometimes your projected double will just bang, just go straight out there.
	It's a different, it's a slightly higher level of projection.
	It was easily the most amazing thing that I've ever felt in my entire life.
	Yeah, it's pretty amazing.
	The sense of freedom, your abilities, you can fly, you can pass through solid matter.
	It's amazing.
	I don't doubt it.
	I just...
	It's unimaginable for me to understand how you could be aware of it and control it and then use it to travel where you would or where you will into other realms and dimensions or even into space.
	I've heard that there really are no limitations once you're out of your body.
	Is that correct?
	That's true.
	The best way to go about it is one step at a time.
	You mentioned your sense of control there, which that was interfering with.
	Yes.
	If you wake-induced an I.B.E., I mean, sat in a chair and deliberately, you know, put yourself in a state and used a technique to pull yourself out of your body, you're in control of the exit.
	And I recommend to people when they do that, you obviously have I.B.E.
	ability even though you don't use it.
	I recommend they work on that, use a technique like the rope technique in my book.
	Pull themselves out of their body and stay out for just 10 seconds.
	Have a quick look at their hands, watch them melt.
	Look around the room and then dive back into your body shouting Geronimo.
	Because if you don't have a strong memory, it's very hard to get those OBE memories past your physical memories.
	And even your dream memories have more impression on the mind than OBE memory.
	But strong emotional content overcomes that.
	I discovered that many years ago.
	I was working at teaching myself Wake Induced OBE.
	And I remember coming out of my body, I had a very easy exit, sitting across the room, thinking to myself, well that was quite easy, but all my memories of the OBEs I've had before was very difficult exits, a lot of sensations, very hard work indeed.
	And then I thought to myself, I wonder if maybe I kept some strong emotion in my mind of what I was doing, maybe there's some kind of memory problem that my memories are not getting through to the brain where they can be stored At the conscious level, which are accessible to the conscious mind.
	And anyway, I tried jumping back in, shouting Geronimo, and it worked.
	And ever since then, it's easy to recall as long as you follow that basic instruction.
	But short OBEs, like 10 seconds in your own lounge room, do them in the daytime, you'll find them much less intimidating.
	I've never had a person yet to complain of fear if they have a wake-induced OBE during the daytime.
	That overcomes most problems.
	Because if you go outside, it's sunny, the sun's shining, you can see everywhere, there's no dark shadows, and we all have a natural fear of the dark somewhere at the back of our mind, and sunlight overcomes that, and you feel much safer.
	It's true.
	Here's a good practical question from Barbara in Pasadena.
	Please ask Robert, what does one gain?
	What do you gain from an OBE?
	What do you gain from having successive learning to do it and then having successive OBEs?
	Where is the gain?
	It's the first step.
	Learning Wake Induced OBE is the first step, you could say, to emancipation of the human self.
	In my book, Out-of-body experience, learning to have them and to do them at will, is a part of the human evolutionary, spiritual evolutionary process.
	And it gives you an enormous freedom.
	It opens you up to different dimensional levels.
	You have closer contact with your higher self, with God even, if you want to put it that way.
	And it also shows you that you can exist independently from your physical body.
	And you will find with some experience you start losing your fear of death and of what lies beyond the grave.
	Because you've already been there.
	I suppose that would probably be true if you really are beginning to get a grasp or an understanding of what lies beyond and that definitely something does.
	Yes.
	It also saves a lot of money on airfares.
	Um, if what you do is really possible, then it should be provable.
	I don't know who said it, but, you know, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and if one is actually able to leave their body, In essence avoiding airfares as you just pointed out, then you should be able to go to a place under strict controls that you have never been to and be able to describe that place in some great amount of detail.
	That would take it past any possibility of chance.
	In other words, you would be able to describe something at a great distance, let's say, and prove to the world that OBEs are absolutely real and you can leave your body and go elsewhere.
	Yes, you would think that.
	I get asked to do that several times a day.
	Oh, really?
	I don't get as much email as you, but I get 100 a day.
	And yeah, it's not as easy as you would think.
	I'm actually planning to run some experiments later this year to prove the validity of real time OBE under some controlled circumstances.
	Really?
	Now, here the problem is, most people only have like a minute or two after they do a wake induced OBE into the real time zone, which is the area of the astral which is very close to the physical dimension.
	It's like a reflection of physical reality as it happens.
	Most people, that reality starts to erode.
	It's a very fluid, subjective environment.
	Now, so after most people get out, a minute or two later, the doors are in the wrong places and they leave their lounge room and they find they're in a park somewhere, and everything gets very confusing.
	It's what I call the Alice in Wonderland effect.
	With training, and if you have enough energy, you can increase that time, the objective part of the OBE, to 10, 15, even 20 minutes.
	It's very difficult to go beyond that.
	But you could do some tests.
	I would have to set them up myself, because I know a lot of people have done tests on this in sleep labs.
	I think even Robert Monroe took part in a set of experiments on this in a sleep lab.
	That's correct, yes.
	Yes, where he had some success and they had a young girl there, a 12 year old, who had like 10 times out of 10, 100% success.
	She would project, she's rigged up to monitors and meters, and she would project out and go through the door into the room opposite and read the numbers on the meters and she got it 10 times out of 10.
	Yes, I was honored to be able to interview Robert Monroe before he passed, and boy, he was doing some very important work, wasn't he?
	Yes, he was.
	He contributed enormously to our knowledge on these things.
	That's sort of proof to other scientists.
	They want to do it themselves, so you have to continually prove these things, and there do need to be more experiments on this, but in my way of thinking, The biggest problem a person has trying to validate real-time out-of-body experience is that as soon as you pass your projected double for a solid object, you open yourself up to reality fluctuations.
	For example, have you ever seen Ghost, the movie Ghost, where Patrick Swayze moves through that person in the hospital?
	I think I have.
	Yes, I did see that.
	Yes.
	It's a little special effect there where he's like moving through this moving section.
	You see the blood and little microbes moving around.
	Very confusing.
	That's what it's like to pass through a brick wall.
	It's quite bright on the inside of solid matter.
	And you can see the molecules of that moving around.
	But what happens is that can very easily cause a reality fluctuation.
	If you pass into a mirror, reflective substances, that causes it as well.
	What do you mean by a reality?
	It causes the subjective fluid environment you're in.
	It causes fluctuations.
	They're affected by the subconscious mind.
	Your dream mind could be active at that time.
	There's minds of other people dreaming around that area as well, which can affect it.
	Any little thing could trigger an association in you, which will cause a little mental thought to arise.
	Which can cause little problems.
	And once you get a problem occurs, and you start losing track of reality, like if you look to where your front door is, and you find there's nothing there, it's just a wall, and your front door is now at the other end of the room, that causes a subconscious problem, which causes your subconscious mind to start creating things to make up for the discrepancies.
	Anyway, reality fluctuations occur a lot.
	To do a fair test, you would have to have a projector In a large room, very large room, like a warehouse, and have a barrier up there that he couldn't see across.
	Sure.
	And have him move around the barrier and check the readouts on the instruments or the card or whatever they've got set up for him to see.
	Are you willing to do exactly that kind of test?
	Oh, definitely.
	I'll be willing.
	I plan to start up a little research institute here, maybe in about a year's time, and get some help.
	People in there involved in this to do just that.
	Call me about the end of this year.
	Okay.
	I want to ask you about mirrors, too.
	Something special about mirrors.
	So we'll ask that, and we'll go to phones when we get back.
	And if you have questions about psychic attacks or defending yourself against them, or whether you're being psychically attacked, This would be a great time to begin dialing, I would think.
	I'm Art Bell, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
	I have literally no care of what I am.
	It's all clear to me now.
	My heart is on fire.
	My soul's like a wheel that's turning.
	you My love is alive.
	Oh, my love is dead and I can't...
	...
	...
	Some velvet morning when I'm straight I'm gonna open up your gate
	And maybe tell you about Phaedra And how she gave me life
	Oh And how she made it in
	Some velvet morning when I'm strayed Flowers glowing on our hill
	Drive them flies and die for deals Learn from us very much
	Look at us but do not touch Fedra is my name
	Look at us but do not touch Phaedra is my name
	Some velvet morning when I'm strayed Learn from us very much
	Some velvet morning when I'm straight I'm gonna open up your gate
	And maybe tell you about Phaedra And how she gave me life
	And how she gave me life somewhere in time on premier radio networks
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
	You might imagine meeting somebody on that other side, or in one of those realms, named Phaedra.
	Might be a thing to expect.
	Hardly ever here, though.
	Oh, by the way, tomorrow night, uh, Eric Burden of the Animals is going to be here.
	Should be a very, very interesting and different kind of night tomorrow night.
	Eric Burden.
	Tomorrow night on Coast.
	If you'll stay right there, we're about to go to the phones with Robert Bruce.
	Now we take you back to the night of February 20th, 2002 on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	You're watching Art Bell.
	Once again, to the area of Perth, Australia, and Robert Bruce.
	Robert, are you there?
	Yes.
	Alright, I'm going to ask you and everybody else to sort of understand as we go to the telephones here if the callers would be so kind as to ask their question and then pause for an answer because we do have a little bit of time differential talking to somebody on the other side of the world and if you don't pause like that it will cause people to begin to speak over each other.
	So I'm going to go to the phones now and we'll give it a shot here.
	On my International line.
	You're on the air with Robert Bruce.
	Where are you, please?
	Australia.
	You're in Australia?
	Yes, I am.
	What part?
	Sydney.
	Sydney, Australia.
	All right.
	So, in other words, let's see now.
	We're going all the way from Australia to here, bouncing around in millions of satellites, and back to Australia, then back.
	Oh, that's interesting.
	Do you have a question for Robert?
	Yes, I do.
	Um, how well do you perform non-verbal communication?
	Um, as I understand, Monroe described it as manipulating the M-band.
	The M-band, sorry, yeah.
	I'm not sure what you mean.
	Can you elaborate a little bit?
	Can you elaborate on that?
	Uh, well, I was asked, um, by some friends to ask this question.
	Um, I don't know exactly what they meant, I guess.
	I don't know.
	They said to mention the, uh, M-band.
	M-band?
	Yes.
	Non-verbal communication would be telepathy, intuition, something like that.
	I'm really not sure what you're asking there.
	All right.
	Well, if you were asked by somebody else to proffer this question-caller, then I guess you can't elucidate for us, can you?
	Yes.
	Apparently, it's meant to be like sending emotions.
	Oh, right.
	Yes.
	I got you.
	I'm pretty good at that.
	I can communicate with animals and I can feel what they want and we understand each other and work for children too.
	I'm great with babies.
	Now, I know that is true.
	We're a cat household.
	We have four cats, and you can project emotion at a cat, and you can see the cat physically react to it.
	I mean, beyond any question, beyond any reason, you can watch the cat physically react to the emotion you're sending to it.
	It'll just roll over on its back and give you its belly.
	You know, it knows that you're projecting this.
	It can feel it or sense it or something.
	I don't know.
	Yes, definitely.
	Most cats give up.
	I've got two cats myself.
	I love them.
	Most cats and dogs give up trying to communicate with humans.
	But if you listen and feel, you find you can get some pretty good communication going.
	Absolutely.
	All right.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Robert Bruce.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, sirs.
	This is Zufo calling from Vancouver.
	Zufo!
	How you doing, Robert?
	G'day, Mike.
	You got through!
	Unbelievably.
	I've tried calling you, Art, so many thousands of times and never get through.
	And tonight, just after one try, it was very great.
	Art, I just wanted to say, Hello, and I wanted to say hi so many times.
	I've listened to you for years, and I think your show is the best.
	Oh, thank you.
	You obviously know each other?
	Well, I bought Robert's book.
	I started studying this a couple of years ago, and I started to follow him online, and found his stuff to be so clear and easy to follow.
	He should have called his book, OBEs for Dummies, because it's really, really practical.
	He's involved, and I started to be able to project.
	Consciously.
	Well, I mean, I'm on my way to getting there.
	But I think it's just fabulous.
	I really, really love Robert's stuff.
	So you've been able to make practical use of his book.
	In other words, you learned to do it yourself or you are in the process of doing that?
	Yeah, I've actually had a couple of successful daytime projections just by getting into a trance state and then using this technique.
	I think you refer to it in the show.
	It's called the rope technique.
	Where you imagine having a rope hanging from the ceiling above your head, and just with your mental hands, you imagine pulling it.
	And if you get a good grip on that with your mind, you can feel the effect in your body.
	It's like you get a falling sensation in the pit of your stomach.
	It's amazing.
	Alright, Robert, he's obviously referring to some technique described in your book.
	Do you want to describe that to us?
	Yes, he just described it.
	What it does, it makes use of your body awareness, which is a powerful tool.
	You exteriorize your body awareness by not so much imagining, but feeling you have a pair of hands, disembodied hands.
	So you could be lying there completely relaxed and prone, tranced, and you feel your hands coming up and you feel them climbing a rope.
	And because you're exteriorizing your center of awareness, This has a great effect upon the projection mechanism and can trigger an OBE very effectively.
	That's very interesting.
	So can you do that technique prior to the beginning of one of the signs of an OBE?
	Can you use that to actually begin those signs?
	Yes, you can use it to begin the process.
	The process?
	Uh-oh.
	I have this feeling...
	that we just lost Robert.
	Are you there, Robert?
	We just lost Robert.
	Well, that's what happens, I guess, in the course of a Of a four-hour conversation, you're bound to lose it once between here and Australia.
	That's not a bad deal.
	Let's see if I can redial and what kind of connection.
	We had to actually redial a couple of times prior to the show because we were getting very, very poor quality connections.
	And we finally got one that worked for at least a few hours.
	So I'm going to redial.
	I'm doing that as I'm speaking to you right now.
	A lot of numbers to dial here.
	It's very interesting.
	Let's see.
	Let's see if I can do this.
	Here we go.
	Well I said here we go.
	Let me see.
	Are we really there?
	No.
	You know what?
	It looks like...
	Really looks like this is a deadline.
	This is very interesting.
	I wonder what has happened.
	Let me try this way.
	No, we have that.
	All right.
	Let me try it that way then.
	Let me just punch up the line.
	No, I better not do it that way.
	Let me take up the handset.
	I see why it didn't work, I think.
	This around the world stuff is kind of crazy, but interesting.
	Bob, I bet we get some good phone bills.
	Let's see.
	Okay, let's try this again.
	Okay.
	Try for a... Here we go.
	Hello?
	Hi there!
	We're back.
	Well, uh, something just blew us, uh, completely apart is what happened.
	Maybe the solar flare.
	You, uh, you disappeared, uh, actually, uh, right in the middle of, uh, saying process, I believe.
	Right.
	We okay to go now?
	We are.
	We're back on the air, I think.
	So, you were saying, right in the middle of a process.
	Yeah, the rope technique can be used to initiate a wake-induced O.B.
	from scratch, or it can be used to, if you start getting symptoms, it can be used to finish it off, to get out of body in a conscious state.
	It's very versatile.
	So, in other words, you could visualize the rope and you could climb your way back to your body.
	Or lower yourself into your body, I suppose.
	When you climb out of your body, getting back is very easy.
	You just have to feel for your body and move towards it, and you'll get sucked back in again.
	The re-entry process is just as fascinating as the exit process.
	You feel yourself dissolving because of the mind split as you re-enter the body.
	It's this big hissing, buzzy energy sensation, and then you're back in your body.
	It's an amazing process.
	Alright.
	Wild Card Line, you Would have been on the air with my guests.
	Hold on just one second.
	Looks like we've done it again.
	This is really wild.
	I wonder what's going on here.
	I just saw that line go dark.
	Some nights, huh?
	Okay, here we go.
	We'll try this again.
	Ever persistent.
	Listen to how it rings.
	It's kind of interesting in a different tone.
	I'm back.
	Well, Robert, we're having a time of it here, I see.
	Yes.
	Let me try this one more time.
	Wild Card Line, you are probably on the air with Robert Bruce in Australia.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Oh, there you are.
	Where are you, ma'am?
	Here I am.
	I'm in East Tennessee.
	This is Brandy.
	Yes, Brandy.
	Mr. Bruce, I have a question.
	You mentioned Andrea Yates.
	She's the woman who's on trial now for drowning her five children in the bathtub.
	And I wondered, because there seems to be quite a prevalence of postpartum depression, and Andrea Yates herself has been diagnosed reportedly with postpartum psychosis.
	So I wondered, are women more likely to experience psychic attacks and possessions when they've recently given birth?
	Well, that's a pretty interesting question, all right.
	Yes, my research has shown that the pregnant women are more likely to start to come under psychic attack, entity attack, primarily because entities try to attach to the unborn child.
	Yeah, it's horrific.
	And with new babies around, they also try for the new baby and they use a process of conditioning as you take several weeks to attach to them.
	But the mother is very vulnerable at that time and especially if she's suffering from depression, she could come under, she'd be more likely to come under a psychic attack or influence.
	And in a case like that where you have obviously a very strong one, it's possible that something took control of her and basically did it, you know, against her will.
	They said one of the, I guess her mother-in-law testified that She walked around in circles and scratched her head until clumps of hair came out.
	Is that something that... Yes, that is consistent with something like with an attack.
	Okay.
	Strange, doing strange things, strange hand gestures, self-mutilation, things like that are quite consistent.
	I'd have to know more about the case and the symptoms she experienced before I could really nail down what was happening there.
	But I mean, obviously there was a mental disturbance there as well, but which came first, the chicken or the egg?
	Yeah.
	I meant to ask you, and I want to ask you about mirrors.
	There's always been something strange about mirrors, and there's been a lot of lore and a lot of mystery involving mirrors and gazing and staring at mirrors.
	Do you know anything about that, Robert?
	I know a little bit about them.
	Regarding OBE's astral projections, if a projector, if you pass through a mirror, or through a reflective substance like a glass, or through reflective water, it will tend to shift you into another reality, and it causes a major reality fluctuation.
	But mirrors are well known to be used as magical devices as well, and they can be used by using You could reflect, say, a tarot card into a mirror, and then you project into the reflection, and you could connect with the realm associated with that tarot card and project into it.
	I give a technique similar in my book called Virtual Reality Projection, where you set up a mirror with, say, you get a favourite painting or poster of a lovely beach scene, a place you'd like to be, And you reflect that into the mirror, and then you make the OBE, and you pass into the mirror, and it will take you into a created realm that your subconscious mind creates as you enter it, which will be exactly like the picture you've entered.
	Wow.
	That's really fascinating.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Robert Bruce.
	Good morning.
	Is that me?
	That's you.
	Okay.
	I'm Norma Jean in Houston, Texas.
	Yes, ma'am.
	And Mr. Bruce, My son and I are experiencing ongoing psychic attacks.
	I'd like to give you some of the background on it and see if you can advise me on it, if you have any advice, anything we could do to stop it.
	When my son was 11 years old, he was attacked by a poltergeist.
	He was bitten, scratched, poked, punched, had his hair yanked, and all the general poltergeist stuff, a whole lot of things happened, but anyway, He is now 33 years old.
	The violent attacks have stopped, but there still seems to be attacks like his, he tries to get a job, and I've got him so many cars, his motors will blow up, his tires will explode, his batteries will explode, and it's too much to be coincidence.
	And I'm wondering if the poltergeist attack could be connected to a curse, Because we had evicted some people from our house that were homeless.
	They lived there for quite a while, and then they started trying to take over the house, so we evicted them.
	And shortly after we evicted them, I found photographs of my son where an X had been marked through his face.
	Oh my God.
	Ma'am, can you hold on for a moment?
	We've got a break here at the bottom of the hour.
	Alright.
	Alright, good.
	Hold on, because I do want to hear the rest of this.
	An X.
	Yes, well, Robert was mentioning physical manifestations of those possessed in this manner and those who are witches.
	That was just a bit earlier.
	We'll be right back.
	I'm Art Bell from the high desert.
	It is. This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
	And this is Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm Art Bell from the high desert.
	It is. This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
	And this is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
	And this is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
	And this is Coast to Coast AM.
	And this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Oh Lord Oh Lord Now I remember I remember Don't worry How could I ever forget It's the first time The last time we ever met I know the reason why you keep your silence up.
	The beautiful leap.
	The hurt doesn't show, but the pain still grows So strange it's you and me
	I knew it ain't coming, yeah I know Oh Lord
	But I knew it was a moment for all my life Oh Lord
	I knew it, yeah, I know Oh Lord
	Oh Lord But I knew it was a moment for all my life
	Tonight's program originally aired February 20th, 2002.
	There really are some things you can feel coming in the air, aren't there?
	They'll stay on the hair on the back of your neck straight up and you can feel them getting close.
	And I'm not referring just to evil spirits, but I'm referring to events and things that are coming.
	You can feel them in the air.
	Sound of wind.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 20th, 2002.
	Again, all the way back to Australia and Robert Bruce and this caller who is on a line.
	Ma'am, you're back online again.
	Please continue.
	All right.
	As I was saying, it was after these people were evicted that I found pictures with an X marked through my son's face.
	And it was shortly after that that the poltergeist attack started happening.
	And my son was in front of a mirror one day and it shattered.
	And he told me the people's name was Stump.
	And he told me he could see Mr. Stumps' face in the mirror just before it shattered and he was smiling at him.
	Now, every time he saw a man a few years ago that came up to him, he'd never seen him before, and he started telling him, is it still happening to you?
	Is it still missing with your cars?
	And my son didn't answer him because he was kind of startled because the man was telling him the things that were happening to him.
	And he said, I can take it off you for $1000.
	My son said, I don't have $1000.
	The man said, when you want it taken off I will find you.
	And now every once in a while when something bad happens to my son, he'll see that man
	standing looking at him.
	And Mr. Bruce, I'm just wondering, I'm desperate, if you could tell me any way, anything that
	would help us.
	Yes, well first, when an attack like that starts, the primary defense I use, these things,
	the negative entities, don't travel very well.
	Simply leaving your house, or going to another room, you leave the house, and you'll find... We wouldn't move into another place, even though we owned a house, and it was with us in the car, it was with us in the other house, and in fact it's still here in this house where I'm at now.
	Alright, unpause for a second and listen.
	Go ahead, Robert.
	If it hasn't attached to the buoy during an attack, you can normally break the attack completely by crossing running water.
	Find a water main or a garden hose and walk over and if the attachment hasn't been made it will break it instantly.
	It's a very powerful defense.
	Would the attacks have to be ongoing when you did that?
	That works on the first one.
	If it's already made an attachment, it's already, you could say, piggybacking with the boy.
	That won't work.
	That definitely sounds like an entity attack to me.
	But what's happening around your boy, he's got very bad luck.
	You could say, aptly, he's been cursed.
	It's like a reality fluctuation around him which gives him really bad luck.
	This is like a shamanic type attack if you're a negative type shaman type person attacking somebody.
	It's quite well known to cause these reality fluctuations.
	I've seen this.
	It's quite noticeable.
	Would it be like a curse or witchcraft?
	Yes, like that.
	It's like a curse.
	You really need professional help for this.
	Who would I go to for help?
	Have a look in your local area and see if you can find a good practicing shaman or white witch or magician or somebody experienced with these things.
	Uh, if you can't, uh, if you can get email access at all?
	Uh, I don't have a computer in my home, but I imagine I could go to the library or something.
	Alright, alright, let's do that.
	Robert, I take it you have email access?
	Yes, yes.
	If she could email me at my website, go to www.astraldynamics.com.
	One word, lower case.
	Okay, we've got a link on our site, artbell.com.
	Yes.
	And go to my site and email myself or my webmaster and he'll forward it to me.
	I can put you in touch with somebody in the States who's very, very good at breaking that kind of an attack.
	I've worked with this lady for some years now.
	She's excellent.
	Robert, I was honored to have interviewed many times a man named Father Malachi Martin, who was very close to the Vatican, very high up in the Vatican.
	And he was an exorcist.
	He has now passed away.
	However, during the time that we interviewed, that we spoke, he spoke many times of the, in his opinion, increasing amount of evil here on earth.
	And he was suggesting that, he was not suggesting, but saying that in his view, for example, in the area in which he practiced in New York, Evil had risen about 800% during the time that he's been watching it and participating in trying to rid people of it.
	Would you concur with that?
	Definitely.
	I know the man.
	I don't know him personally.
	I know his work.
	He's a great man.
	Yes.
	But yes, I agree with him.
	So then you're seeing more and more then of these possessions of evil, of the presence of evil, or of negative forces?
	Yes, negative forces at work, the psychic attacks, the influences that people don't recognize the source of, the, you could say, evil behavior that that causes, and the psychic and demonic attacks.
	I mean, I started getting involved with this accidentally.
	I was in a small town of like 12,000 people, and I had seven families approach me, and I'm not that sociable a person.
	I didn't advertise.
	Just through word of mouth, seven families with serious entity problems, including demonic possessions and poltergeists and that.
	That's just in a small town.
	Wow.
	I mean, this really is quite widespread and it is growing.
	All right.
	There is a lot you can do about it.
	Obviously.
	Wes to the Rockies, you're on the air with Robert Bruce in Australia.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art Robert.
	This is Joe from Seattle.
	Yes, sir.
	Excellent show tonight.
	Robert, your description of the noise and vibration associated with the beginning of an OBE really struck me.
	When I was 16, I went through a period of pretty serious mental disturbance.
	I guess like a lot of 16-year-olds.
	I would have these attacks before I would drift off to sleep.
	They scared the bejesus out of me.
	I would have this buzzing in my head.
	It felt like a rolling vibration.
	It felt like a vibration, but it felt like it was rolling inside of my head.
	And it felt like I was starting to come away from myself, but I would always get very scared and try to wake myself up.
	But it felt like, I was wondering if when you're having an OBE, if you feel like it comes from a specific region in your brain, like the top of your head or if it's in the front?
	That varies.
	It depends upon which is your most active energy center part of your body.
	With some people it's in the head, with some people it's more often in the heart area.
	But what you're describing there tells me that you have a natural OBE ability and I deal with cases like this every day.
	I do a lot of consulting on the net with problems like this.
	You don't really have a problem.
	Possibly the OBEs you were having were contributing to your mental disturbance at the time.
	um... by worrying you and also there's a lot of stuff going on in your body at that age especially if you have uh... you having spontaneous type out-of-body experiences or near experiences uh... has it all settled down now?
	uh... he's gone now but uh... uh... he also but might be said to have an opportunity since he's getting this all the time he could go and explore it Yes, that is one of the best ways of stopping problems like that.
	I have a lot of people come to me who can't stay in their bodies.
	They keep popping out of their body and it terrifies them.
	Learning how to wake induce them normally solves the problem.
	It would be absolutely disconcerting to keep leaving without trying.
	First time caller on the air with Robert Bruce in Australia.
	Hi.
	Hello, Robert Hart.
	This is Mike from Esmont, Virginia, listening to you on WLNI, The Line, out of Lynchburg.
	Yes, sir.
	I've seen the grid.
	It was in a wake state, with a big headache.
	It was a white grid, very pure white, with some of the rectangles in it filled in.
	I met an interdimensional being.
	It was pure white.
	It was coming from sleep into wakefulness.
	I had just enough time, but I seemed to wake up so fast, it seemed to have kissed me in my sleep and woken me up.
	And it was there with its eyes closed.
	It was a monkey head.
	It was pure white.
	But it did not have the big hump on the back like a gorilla.
	It was like a gorilla face.
	And I saw it long enough, either with my astral body or with my own eyes, I remember exactly.
	I saw it long enough to be able to realize it had no teeth.
	It had like a wrinkled mouth.
	But it had definitely ape eyes, and it opened up its eyes real fast, and was startled, and it flew out, and as I gained full wakefulness, it was right into the sunbeam shining on my head.
	One time when I left a body, which has all but happened fairly frequently, I mean, fairly recently, I saw a fabric, like you were kind of talking about, of indescribable colors.
	I had the feeling of indescribable joy, and the fabric was weaving itself at the same time.
	I also saw my arm disattached in a gray cloud and then I couldn't breathe and then I woke
	back up.
	It seems like when the body is leaving, the astral body is leaving, the regular body is
	like a balloon feeling like you are pulling on a rubber kind of thing.
	And that's what I've seen so far.
	I used to have those paralyzing things and I found that was my gateway into leaving my
	body, although I couldn't see myself in my body at first, was those horrible dreams and
	I fought them instead, decided to hunt what was doing it to me and that seemed to take
	away all the fear.
	Do you know what that creature was?
	you Yes, first off, I'd say the beam of sunlight you said was striking your face is what woke you up, brought you back.
	Right.
	It's very possible that that was affecting your, um, you were obviously looking at an astral plane surface skin, but the sunlight on your eyes may have actually made it look white.
	It may have interfered with the colors, and the color of the being you saw.
	Well, that being you saw...
	Well, that being you saw the little ape-faced things.
	They're as big as my head.
	Yes, they are normally a type of low astral wildlife.
	They look like monkeys.
	And they're quite common.
	The old spirits of this used to call them elementals.
	Elementals.
	That's not a very accurate description.
	Why would it have been startled?
	It would have been startled because you saw it, and it recognized that you saw it.
	Yeah, that's exactly the feeling I got.
	Caller, you've got to be careful.
	We've got a connection, a long-distance connection here, as you can tell.
	So you're going to talk over each other if you're not careful.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	So you startled it.
	Yeah.
	All right, Robert, so obviously then, when you're in the same state, when you're in the same realm, these creatures or these entities, even the elemental ones, they understand very well that you can see them.
	Yes.
	Keep in mind, elemental is a very inept, it's not a very appropriate term for them.
	Elemental is quite a different thing.
	But these little beings, they're like a low astral wildlife.
	They appear a lot with new projectors, whether you're having spontaneous out-of-body experiences or wake-induced ones.
	And a lot of projectors, they appear around their beds and try to scare them just by their presence.
	It's almost as if they are attracted to people who are having OBEs, and their job is to scare them back into their bodies.
	But they are totally harmless.
	Well, it certainly would work for me.
	Scaring me, that is.
	On the international line, you're on the air with Robert Bruce in Australia.
	Where are you, please?
	I'm in Sydney.
	You're in Sydney, Australia, also?
	Yeah.
	Alright.
	Proceed, sir.
	Excuse me?
	It sounds like you're in downtown Sydney in the middle of the day.
	Yeah, it does, doesn't it?
	Uh, go ahead.
	Um, yeah.
	Firstly, I'd just like to say, X23 owns you.
	And number two, hack the planet.
	Thanks, that's my message for tonight.
	Okay, I don't know what that means.
	Do you, Robert?
	No idea.
	Okay.
	Uh, wildcard line, you're on the air with Robert Bruce in Australia.
	Hello.
	Hi, good morning.
	Oh, Robert, uh, Art was mentioning Malachi Martin, who was an exorcist for the Catholic Church, and as a matter of fact, uh, AP had a story a couple days ago that the Pope himself has done three exorcisms in his tenure in office.
	I have two questions.
	One is, how do you view the Christian tradition of exorcism?
	And my second question is, that lady that called from Tennessee, could you give us more, I would imagine, tips on how we can individually, let's say that we've had this experience and there is some attachment.
	What can a person do by himself to get rid of it, or do we have to necessarily go to an outside source, like you told that lady?
	Well, it seemed as though, and check me if I'm wrong, Robert, but short of crossing water, the way you advised her, for something as serious as the attachment she was describing, professional help would be a must, is that correct?
	Yes, in that case it would be, definitely.
	Crossing running water will break the majority of Any kind of psychic or entity attack should happen when they first happen.
	And if you can do that, you can very often stop an attachment taking place.
	It's a way of protecting yourself.
	Keep in mind that running water was what I learned about the running water method by releasing myself.
	Certainly, you told us exactly how you did it.
	Yeah, I didn't know I was sleeping on top of a running water stream.
	But the Christian view of exorcism is that there's a Christian method.
	There's Jewish methods, there's Buddhist methods, if you go to Tibetan Buddhism.
	It doesn't matter so much on the method that's being used.
	It matters more upon the person and the strength that that person has and the faith that they have.
	And the technique they use, of course, has some effect as well.
	But it's a combination of the three.
	So to be a good exorcist, you have to have a good technique, a lot of faith, and a lot of inner strength.
	All right.
	Your book on this subject, which is going to be titled The Practical Psychic Self-Defense, it's not out yet.
	When should it be out?
	It should be out at the end of June.
	Amazon.com are advertising it for early July.
	So it should be available about a month earlier from the publishers, Hampton Roads of Virginia.
	OK.
	In the meantime, your other book called Astral Dynamics is now available.
	Is that correct?
	Yes, that's available for Amazon.com, or my website, or Andrew Wright's, any bookstore.
	Okay, a lot of people are going to be very obviously interested.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Robert Bruce in Australia.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	This is Jean listening on KOMO in Western Washington.
	Yes, ma'am.
	And Robert, I recently heard a person that does work like you do interviewed, and he Call all spirits inhuman entities.
	And so that all spirits were negative.
	And there were no white witches.
	And he lumped the tarot in with the Ouija board.
	And I'm especially interested in the tarot and I'm wondering if you would address that.
	All right.
	Good.
	Actually a good question.
	This person believing all spirits are negative of one way or the other.
	That is more of a fundamentalist type Christian view, and everybody's entitled to their opinion.
	But in my view, there's nothing harmful in the tarot.
	And as for entities and spirits, they're definitely not all evil.
	I mean, there are angels.
	I've met and talked to angels.
	They definitely exist, and you wouldn't... They're spirits, and you wouldn't call them evil.
	They're great beings, and there are all sorts of great, wonderful, great good beings out there.
	One question, Robert.
	How do you know you're not being tricked?
	That would be a question a fundamentalist would certainly ask, because they would imagine that to be the case in many cases where you thought you had some warm, fuzzy, angelic presence, you're being tricked.
	Nobody can guarantee that.
	It's very much like real life, the way I look upon spirit entities, angels.
	The proof is in the pudding.
	You judge a person, a spirit, the same way you do a human being.
	You do not automatically give them trust.
	Trust is earned by their deeds and by their actions.
	You learn about a person's integrity and then you start to trust them, as you would do any person you met on the street.
	That is the best way of treating any entities.
	But of course, if you meet up with an angel, they're quite a different sort of thing.
	They come with a great presence.
	Now, you can say that all these things are bad, but I mean, that's another fundamentalist type viewpoint, which is very, very limited, very narrow-focused.
	It's focused upon a few words here and there in the Bible, and they are taking them literally, and therefore, you cannot debate with people like that, because they're not open-minded.
	We could go on for hours and hours and hours, but the program is ending, Robert.
	It has been an absolute pleasure having you here.
	I hope you do very well, and I'm certain you're going to do very well with your books, and we would like to have you back again sometime.
	Perhaps when your book is out.
	How about that?
	I'd love to come back.
	All right.
	Thanks a million, and have a great day.
	What's left of it there in Australia.
	Thank you for having me.
	Good night, Robert.
	That's Robert Bruce.
	And wasn't he interesting?
	Tomorrow night.
	Eric Burden of the Animals is going to be here.
	From the high desert, as always, I'm Art Bell.

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