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Feb. 13, 2002 - Art Bell

02:48:11

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Michael Luckman - New Face on Mars

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01:08:47

michael luckman

42:28

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richard c hoagland

03:37

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		I was a highwayman, along the coach roads I did ride, with sword and pistol by my side.
		Many a young maid lost her baubles in my trade.
		Many a soldier shed his lifeblood on my blade.
		The masters hung me in the spring of 25.
		But I am still alive.
		I was a sailor.
		I was born upon the tide.
		With the sea I did fight.
		I sailed a schooner around the Horn of Mexico.
		I went along the world, the names of Little Blow.
		And when the ice broke up, they said that I got killed.
		But I'm living still.
		I was a damn builder across the river deep and wide.
		We're stealing water in the lies.
		A place called Boulder Home, the Wild Palm.
		I spent the fill to the wind on people.
		They buried me in that region.
		But those are still round.
		I'll always be around and around and around and around and around.
		I'll fly a starship across the universe divine.
		And when I reach the other side, I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can.
		Perhaps I may become a highwayman again.
		Or I may simply be a single drop of rain.
		But I will remain.
		And I'll be back again and again and again and again and again and again.
		Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 13, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One of the highwaymen is gone.
		He was one of the highwaymen, Waylon Jennings, whose rebellious songs and brash attitude defined the outlaw movement.
		He died today after a long battle with diabetes.
		He was 64 years old, too young to be dying.
		He did die peacefully, it was said, at his home in Arizona.
		He had 60 albums.
		And he had 16 number one country singles.
		Some career, huh?
		One of the group.
		One of the highwaymen.
		Gone.
		And I thought that was kind of an appropriate way to open the program instead of the usual theme music tonight.
		Willie Nelson is a friend of mine and he's one of the highwaymen, too.
		And had I had enough time today, I would have, in fact, Willie, if you want to say something, I know you're a listener to the program.
		Feel free to call my network and they'll send a number up to me if you happen to be listening.
		And we'll put you on the air and say whatever you want.
		But he's gone.
		And so I thought that the appropriate memorial in more ways than one, if you listen to the words of that song.
unidentified		So goodbye, Waylon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Life is such a strange thing, isn't it?
		He could have gone with Buddy Holly.
		Some would have said he was supposed to, but obviously he wasn't, right?
		Now is when he was supposed to go.
unidentified		So sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Elsewhere in the world, the French figure skating judge was pressured to listen to this, quote, act in a certain way before she voted to give the gold to the Russians in pairs.
		This is according to the head of the French Olympic team this evening.
		That's a big story.
		A judge, a French judge of all, you know, the French, one of the most obstinate, individualistic, sometimes annoying group of people on the face of the globe, as far as I'm concerned.
		I love France, by the way.
		I absolutely love Paris.
		But the French, well.
		And so a French judge was pressured to go the way of the Russians?
		Holy mackerel.
		You can't pressure the French to do anything usually.
		Interesting.
		President Bush on global warming.
		Now this is also really interesting.
		President Bush offering his alternative to the Kyoto global warming pact.
		Listen to this now.
		wants U.S. businesses to voluntarily track and reduce the output of greenhouse gases voluntarily huh he would offer an array of tax incentives that's good for corporations farms and individuals to do so in addition bush said the government in 2012 interesting year george end of the Mayan calendar uh anyway said the government in 2012 uh will re-evaluate its success in cutting greenhouse gases and consider a new possibly tougher system now
		that will be an interesting year in which to reconsider getting tougher on global warming 2012 what do you think Enron executive uh Sharon Watkins is it warned Chairman Kenneth Lay back on the uh 30th of October that, quote, we need to come clean, end quote, and disclosed the heavy financial losses from the company's complex web of partnerships.
		So somebody has at least said something.
		And speaking of people saying things, I was absolutely stunned today.
		I don't know why I should be, because he said a lot of crazy stuff, you know.
		But this one takes the cake.
		And I wrote the quote down word for word from CNN.
		I just, you know, stopped the action on CNN, which you can do with these nice new digital satellite receivers that have hard drives in them and wrote it down.
		And Ted Turner said, quote, the reason the World Trade Center got hit is because there are a lot of people living in abject poverty out there who don't have hope for a better life.
		End quote.
unidentified		Holy crap, Ted.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are you talking about?
		The reason the World Trade Center got hit is because there are a lot of people living in abject poverty out there who don't have hope for a better life.
		That's astounding.
		You know, Ted has said some astoundingly stupid things, in my opinion, in the past, but this one really takes the cake.
		There is a story coming out of Mexico that's very disturbing.
		Apparently, it's hard to understand these kinds of numbers, but hundreds of millions of monarch butterflies have died in a cataclysmic freak snowstorm in the Mexican mountains where they spend each winter after a journey of about 3,000 miles.
		American and Mexican researchers estimated that as many as 270 million frozen butterfly bodies now littered the ground after the storm last month in their pine forest havens west of Mexico City.
		270 million monarch butterflies.
		Now, those are pretty heavy numbers.
		Those are just about actually the numbers, the exact number of people, or close to it, that we have in totality in the United States of America.
		That many people.
		270 million monarch butterflies.
		Oh my God.
		So I guess they didn't go far enough south, huh?
		Because of their arrival, because it actually coincides with Mexico's Day of the Dead celebrations.
		Many villagers believe that the butterflies represent the spirit of their ancestors.
		So then I wonder what that means to them that this would occur, the spirit of their ancestors, huh?
		270 million dead.
		Yikes.
		Somebody in the last few days has been calling me and commenting on some sort of hum near Kokomo, Indiana.
		And there is something going on in Kokomo.
		Complaints about the Kokomo hum began in 1999 when a handful of local residents began to report a constant low-pitched rumbling noise.
		They say they developed a range of mysterious health problems soon after, including dizziness, diarrhea, extreme fatigue, joint muscle pain, nosebleeds, excruciating, unending headaches.
		One 55-year-old grandmother said, quote, I think we all know something was starting to go drastically wrong about two years ago.
		It went from headache to never-ending headache, she says.
		When she leaves Kokomo to visit relatives, the suffering abates.
		Maria McDaniel said it's been over two years now.
		She lives several miles away from the first person named Zimmerman with the headaches.
		We just noticed a low hum, a drone in the background.
		It seemed to increase in intensity in the wee hours of the night, like right now, for example.
		McDaniel says she and her two sons and her husband began to experience regular headaches, sleep problems, diarrhea around the same time, all of them.
		She admits she doesn't know for certain how the sound she hears relates to the symptoms, but she wants the hum investigated.
		Now, it goes on and on and on and on.
		It's an ABCnews.com story, so this is in the mainstream press.
		You can go to ABCNews.com and read it, or I'm sure we'll get a link up.
		Isn't that something?
		Personally, it would be my guess that it's something going on underground.
		It might be a transference, you know, like from a diesel engine running somewhere or something, but, you know, I don't really buy that.
		This has got to be something deeper to be felt over such a wide area.
		It has to be deeper in the earth.
		And the deeper in the earth something is, the wider an area it will affect.
		Witnessed the earthquake down in Central or South America, 780 some-odd kilometers deep, felt to New York.
		The deeper you go with some sort of sound or effect, the wider an area it will affect.
		So whatever this is, it must be down there some ways.
		It'd be very interesting to hear from some people in the Kokomo area or the area affected by this strange hum.
		This, in my opinion, indicator of something going On underground, way down there.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		Now, we take you back to the night of February 13, 2002, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe we'll get a few calls on the Kokomo hum.
		Here is a very, very, very interesting article.
		This comes from CNN.
		And it says, global warming could slow Earth spin and lengthen days.
		Listen to this.
		By steadily releasing more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, and we're doing that, folks, humans could inadvertently slow down the rotation of the Earth, according to a new scientific report.
		Oh, we get new scientific reports all the time.
		A team of Belgian researchers we seem to have here came to that conclusion after using climate models to simulate a 1% increase in the primary greenhouse gas each year, a rise they say coincides with current trends.
		How wild slight, the shift in a planet's spin could be measured over the course of decades, providing an ideal method to check the effects of civilization-induced warming of the world, the scientists said.
		The Earth's rotation is an interesting quantity as it is global.
		Meteorological data are mainly local, said one scientist.
		Consequently, the Earth's rotation is a useful tool for looking at the effects of global climate change.
		They plotted how the extra gas would affect ocean currents, atmospheric winds, and other meteorological patterns that influence the angular momentum of the Earth in the short term.
		Natural variations like weather systems would muddle the task of determining how much gas influx slows the planet.
		But over decades or longer, the human effect could become quite pronounced, at least in relation to precise measurements of celestial mechanics.
		So in other words, it could actually, they're saying, somehow alter the speed of the Earth.
		And I'm not exactly sure what the consequences of that would be, but I doubt that it would be anything good if we began to slow down.
		There would probably be some problems to contend with.
		Anyway, very quickly, to the phones we go.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, top of the morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you, sir.
unidentified		This is Raymond.
unidentified		I'm calling from Michigan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I want to talk about hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hell?
unidentified		Hell.
unidentified		H-E-L.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, hell, hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That hell, yes.
unidentified		Well, you know how some people feel that hell might be located in the center of the earth and it's an actual physical place?
		Yes.
		If hell is a place that some souls end up going, why would it be a physical place if your physical body doesn't go there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I have no idea.
		I mean, other people think heaven is in the sky, right?
		Right?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just the same sort of, I don't know.
		Right, but I think.
		Tribal concept.
unidentified		Well, if it's a place, though, for your soul, it wouldn't actually be a place that exists physically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hell is just a word, sir.
		You know, I mean, some people picture it as a physical location.
		Other people don't think of it that way at all.
		I mean, it just depends on how you.
		It's just a word, sir.
unidentified		I know, but some people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, if you're really bad, that's where you're going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'll find out.
unidentified		I hope I don't find out.
		But some people feel that they might stumble upon it.
		They feel they heard hell noises accidentally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, I have, as you well know, or maybe you don't know, I have hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you know I have hell noises?
unidentified		Yeah, I've heard that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you?
		Yeah.
		The alleged Siberian hole.
		Oh, my God, listen.
unidentified		Oh, my God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, that sounds like a place to me, sir.
unidentified		Maybe I'm wrong.
unidentified		Maybe it doesn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sounds like Grand Central Station, actually.
unidentified		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, with a lot of unhappy people waiting for trains or something, I don't know.
		It doesn't sound good.
		It sounds like a place.
unidentified		Yeah, you may be right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hope I don't get to find out.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you take care.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Cheerio.
unidentified		Good morning, Mark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.
		Okay.
		Just a short hypothesis.
		I've studied a little bit about this global warming effect.
		I've always wondered with the holes appearing over the poles if this is just some effect of the mass of the Earth and releasing these chlorophyll carbon gases into interstellar space and then contracting back, basically moving and adding as like a pop-off bound situation.
		I've not yet found any information whatsoever to back up anything of that thought, but it seems to me through the millennium of the Earth's history itself, through the volcanism that's happened, that we would have had some major things happen in the past and the Earth would have not renewed itself as it has.
		But just a thought.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what we're all about right here, serious thoughts.
		Thank you very much.
		You take care.
		From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
		And this is Coast to Coast AM.
		Oh, by the way, there's a new Mars face or an old Mars face.
		A new one to us.
		We're going to be talking about it next hour.
		It's going to be interesting.
unidentified		You're listening to Ark Bell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 13, 2002.
		Coast to Coast AM from February 13, 2002.
		My heart sang over joy and pain.
		He opened up our mind, and I still can hear him say: So you can't see what's going on.
		The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sand, or the strength of an oak roots deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing, to lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing, all these things in our memory's hall.
		and they use them to count us.
		laughter
		Why?
		Why what you saw?
		Take this place on this street, just for me.
		Why?
		Take a free ride, take a place of my seat.
		It's for free.
		I've been sharing for years.
		So it's so hard just to whip my fears.
		I'd do it my life before I went.
		But by now, I know I shall be born.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 13th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Radio.
		It happens in the middle of the night.
		That would be us.
		Good morning, everybody.
		It's great to be here.
		And in a moment, we will continue with open lines, anything you want to discuss.
		Waylon Jennings, certainly on my mind.
unidentified		Now, we take you back to the night of February 13, 2002, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art Bell All right, somebody asked, and I would like to confirm for you that Eric Burden of the Animals, Eric Burden, is going to be here on the 21st.
		He is booked for the 21st, and I'll give you a little hint.
		We're working pretty hard, or as hard as we can, on Cat Stevens, too.
		I'd like to have Cat Stevens on.
		He's got a lot of interesting views, and I've always been a really big fan of his music.
		So a couple people that are in the music world that we're thinking about having.
		Well, one, we are going to have on for sure, Eric Burden.
		Boy, does he have a lot to say about Jimi Hendrix?
		Then Cat Stevens, maybe.
		So that's kind of a little bit of what we're working on right now.
		First time caller line, you are on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, hi.
unidentified		This is Ruth Anna from Atlanta, Georgia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how are you doing?
unidentified		I'm doing good, Art.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just spiffy.
unidentified		Okay, great.
		I wanted to make a couple of comments.
		I wanted to ask or throw out a couple of questions about the time machines.
		And this also ties in with a show you recently had about people who affect batteries and who drain things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let me update you a little bit on the time machine thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You heard the story I trust that I read about the Russian?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we are on the track, not of that man, because he does not speak English, but a colleague of his in St. Petersburg, Russia, we're trying to make contact with him right now and get him on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Russians may have a time machine.
unidentified		Oh, wow.
		That's fantastic.
		I hope that'll work out.
		Yes, and I'm glad for the update on that.
		My question was about the people who cause batteries and different things to not work or they put out street lamps and things like that, which my significant other of 15 years does do.
		I just wondered if in a time machine they would cause it to go haywire since they cause so many other things to go haywire, which could be one of the problems when they're trying to use that if they try to use a person who does disorient machinery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wouldn't let them anywhere near my time machine if I had one.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		And the other thing I wondered is if people who have a birthday on February the 29th don't already start out as a good candidate since they're at a time that doesn't always exist on the calendar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		That's very interesting.
		Thank you very much.
		I have no idea.
		People born on February 29th.
unidentified		Do they have a little jump on everybody else?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am so, I wonder why I am so fascinated with time travel.
		I just don't know.
		I really am.
		It's an endless fascination for me.
		And I would love to give it a try.
		Wouldn't you?
		Have you ever wondered if you had the option, for example, of leaving the present time you're in and going to any time you would like, in the past or in the future, just one little catch, because there always is a catch to things, you know.
		You couldn't come back, what would you do?
		Would you go forward in time?
		Where would you go?
		To when would you go?
		Would you go back in time?
		I think the majority choice would probably be to go back in time, because of course going ahead is the unknown.
		You have no idea.
		There'd be a few adventuresome people who would do that.
		My guess is they'd probably be disappointed.
		I mean, consider what's happening to rock music right now.
		Jump ahead 100 or 200 or 500 years and your disappointment would know no ends.
		Go back, on the other hand, and you kind of could pick the era you wanted.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, Ark, how are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doing okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm listening to you in WLSA in Chicago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chicago, yes, sir.
unidentified		Yes.
		Hey, I was just, I wanna, the reason I called you was, I feel all the time, every house I ever lived in, me and my wife, Yes.
		There was always something, With me.
		And ever since I was a little kid, like, I've seen a ghost.
		I know I've seen a ghost, you know, in my hou in my mom's house.
		And one day I opened up the bedroom door and I thought I'd have something blew blew my hair back.
		And now me and my wife just bought a new house in Romeoville, Illinois.
		And it's like everything's weird again.
		I mean, the house is always cold.
		No matter what we do to the house, it stays cold.
		I mean, and I got into a big accident on 97 in Utah with a semi-truck.
		I got ran off the road and went down 150 yards off I-70 there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And walked away without a scratch on me.
		And about two weeks after that, me and my wife went out for a drink in a barn of Chicago, and I got stabbed five times in the back.
		Puncture my lung.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
unidentified		And walked away from that.
		And I mean, I've been in head-on collision accidents in cars.
		And one of my buddies, his girlfriend, I didn't know she was, you know, she was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
		A ghost is just a word.
		All right?
		I don't know that what you've got is a ghost.
		Maybe you've got a guardian angel.
		You've got some sort of something perhaps watching over you in some way.
		And it may not be a ghost.
		A ghost is just a word.
		I mean, there are millions of possibilities of entities that we are not aware of that are around us all the time.
		And so, unless you specifically know this is the spirit of a person who once was alive and now is dead, ghost might not be the right word.
unidentified		Yeah, because when I was seven, I got set on fire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Set on fire?
unidentified		When I was seven years old, some kids in Chicago threw a mock-off cocktail bomb at me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good Lord, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of life have you been leading anyway?
unidentified		Yes, I have been having a really...
		Yeah.
		I mean, I had nothing but tragedy, but I walked away from it, and like in 95.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unbreakable.
unidentified		Yeah, and like in 95, I went through some hard times, got divorced, and I tried icing myself, which is stupid to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You tried to kill yourself.
unidentified		Yes, sir, I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you didn't succeed.
unidentified		No, I didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, this is unbreakable all the way.
unidentified		I took a bottle of 25 sleeping tablets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Drank a fifth of booze.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And I should have been dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And?
unidentified		I woke up in the woods where I parked my car at, outside my car with my car door wide open.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man.
unidentified		That's why I've been listening to you because I've been at nights lately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what to tell you.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unbreakable.
unidentified		And it's like one of my buddy's girlfriends, I didn't know she reads people.
		I never knew that.
		And she told me when she was staring at me, and she was like, you have someone that watches over you.
		And I thought, you know, she was weird.
		But then after a while, I started thinking about all this stuff.
		I'm like, wow, maybe this is true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen, sir.
		I don't know what to tell you.
		Try not to test it.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, take care.
		Try not to test that a lot.
		That sure sounds like unbreakable though.
		That'd be something...
		Did you see the movie, Unbreakable?
		I guess that it would begin to dawn on you slowly the way it did in that movie.
		You know, and you'd go home and you'd ask your wife or your lover or whatever.
		Can you remember the last time I was sick?
		That's how it began.
		Then he went in and talked to his boss.
		Can you remember the last time I had a sick day?
		And it took off from there.
		Unbreakable was an interesting movie.
		No matter what would happen to you, you just, you know, you would not.
		I believe he came out of a totally fatal train wreck, was the only one to walk away and did it without a scratch.
		You know, that kind of a story.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Dan in Idaho Falls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Dan.
unidentified		In the book of Revelation, it says that I have a crown, and I discovered what that crown is.
		It's a drug called a crown ester, and it can pull people back from death.
		Maybe even recently death.
		Oh, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is this drug?
unidentified		It's a, well, the chemical book says the name is either 10 Crown 5 or 15 Crown 5.
unidentified		The nomenclature is the word.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What book are you referring to, please?
unidentified		An organic chemistry book.
		You see, there's a series of these crown esters.
		And the one that's missing is The Crown of Life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		10 Crown 5 or 15 Crown 5.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that right?
unidentified		And it has a molecular weight of 210.19.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And where do you get these drugs?
unidentified		Well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Matter of interest.
unidentified		You see, I was shown how to make the molecule.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you know how to make Crown 5, the immortality drug?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Nobody else does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess I should ask, is it really that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you said it brings people back from the dead.
unidentified		Well, I'm not sure about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You haven't tested that part yet.
unidentified		I haven't tested that part yet.
		But I have given the chemists the formula on how to make it.
		And they should be having some success.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you taken it?
unidentified		No, I don't have any available yet.
unidentified		I just have to make sure that you're in the middle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you going to take it if you get it?
unidentified		I would test it, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would.
		Would you really want to live forever, sir?
		Or would you really...
unidentified		You see, it's a chelating drug.
unidentified		It pulls poisons out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So even the recently dead and departed, how would you give them the drug?
		I mean, how would you circulate?
		They don't have blood going around in their system anymore.
		How do you give the recently departed the drug?
unidentified		I don't know.
unidentified		Maybe injection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but well, see, then I begin to have a problem with it because you can't, injecting something into a dead person is useless.
unidentified		Well, you get diffusion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, a little diffusion maybe, but not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have no working system to carry it around and do whatever it is this wonder drug does.
unidentified		Well, you see, the brain can live on after death.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		I've been worried about that for some time myself, actually.
		Thank you very much.
		Have a good morning.
		Yeah, wouldn't it be awful if the brain, in fact, did live on for some time after the body dies?
		Days, weeks, even months.
		Bad thought.
		First time color line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi, Art.
		First of all, I want to send my condolences to the Jennings family.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		All right.
		And also, Art, you travel time every night.
		I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're in a truck, right?
unidentified		Yeah, I am in a truck, but you travel in time every night.
		You're on a radio delay every night.
		And just wanted to put that forth.
		Still there?
		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listening to you.
unidentified		Yes.
		I have a suggestion for a bumper song for you.
		Oh?
		It's called The Door, and it's by Kebmo, K-E-B-A-C-Primo, M-O.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kebmo, huh?
unidentified		Kebmo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I will take a listen.
unidentified		It coins your show to the dot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To the dot, huh?
		All right, thank you very much.
		Cell phone blasting through the night in a big rig, obviously.
		Yeah, I'll take a listen.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, hello, Art.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Bob from Los Angeles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, hey, what are you guys talking about?
		Where's the topic?
		I just turned on the radio this second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you see, you don't even know what we're talking about?
unidentified		Yeah, open minds.
		I was just listening to you guys.
		Really?
		The truck driver was the last guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, I mean, you have no idea what we're talking about?
unidentified		Yeah, you're going to talk about the faith of Mars earlier.
unidentified		I'm just playing with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what I'm going to be talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you didn't hear the part about the massive comet headed directly for Earth on Saturday?
unidentified		Oh, really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You missed that?
unidentified		Oh, no.
unidentified		Where do I go?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's happening when you call up and you haven't been listening.
unidentified		Hey, did you know Dan Aykroyd's an alien?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I did know that, sir.
		Thank you very much.
		Yes, I was well aware.
		No, there is no big asteroid headed for Earth.
		I just thought I would joust with him a little bit, calls up, and didn't even know what we were talking about.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi.
		I was wondering if you had ever heard about a piece of technology that the FBI has.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they've got a lot of technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's the one you're talking about?
unidentified		It's like a microchip they put on the vocal folds that is able to broadcast the movements of the vocal folds.
unidentified		But what happens is when somebody is thinking, they think in terms of words.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And what it enables them to do is read the...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can already see what...
unidentified		Right, the air doesn't have to pass through it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The vocal folds actually do vocalize the thought.
unidentified		They contract.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They contract in a way that is intelligible?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they could know what we're thinking.
unidentified		Well, they have to implant it on the person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, sure.
		I mean, but that could happen anywhere, right?
		That could happen in the dentist's chair.
		Sure.
unidentified		It allows them to, you know, interrogate someone.
		All they have to do is ask them questions, and the person would just have to think of the answers, but not want to say them.
		It also allows them to do deep undercover operations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Where they're able to communicate to, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where did you come upon this gem of information?
unidentified		Well, it's a long story, but it actually has happened to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Give me the short version.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you mean they implanted you?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
		All right.
		Well, give me the short version.
unidentified		Well, the short version is, I guess I went to a doctor's office and they operated on me for a broken nose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And I didn't like what the surgeon had done.
unidentified		He had done a lot of extra work that had caused me a lot of problems, headaches, and nosebleeding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And I tried to sue him, but I wasn't able to.
unidentified		And I tried to publicize what he did to his colleagues.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And nothing happened.
		I didn't get a response.
		But about two years later, the FBI had investigated me.
		He was apparently well connected.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For what?
unidentified		Just to get revenge.
		Just pure and simple to get revenge.
		Because I had written a letter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would the FBI want to get revenge on you for something some plastic surgeon, I presume?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Did to you.
		Why would the FBI be on his side coming after you?
unidentified		Oh, because the letter I wrote, I sent it out to all his colleagues.
unidentified		It was probably imprudent of me to do it, but it was very embarrassing for him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And somehow you're saying they got the FBI to come after you as a result.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		And it's kind of made my life hell for a long time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if they know what you're thinking, then you're a cooked goose.
unidentified		Yeah, that's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
		You're cooked.
		There's nothing you can do.
		Because no matter what secret plan you might make.
unidentified		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even late at night, lying in bed, plotting and planning your revenge or whatever, they're going to know exactly what you're thinking.
unidentified		Right, and there's nothing you can do to stop it.
unidentified		But it makes me wonder who else they've done this to and how easy it is for them to control because if I go to someone else to try and get help about it, they've already contacted them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, some might say this sounds a little paranoid, you know.
unidentified		Well, I just, this is the one follow-up question I want to have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, you do understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some people would think this is a little paranoid of you.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, I understand that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That they were to be devoting that much time And energy to ruining your life?
unidentified		Right, I agree.
		Until it happened to me, it wasn't something I would believe in.
		But I do have one question that might from what I understand, this technology has been around since the 60s, and a lot of regular police officers know about it.
		And I was just wondering if maybe another police officer might call in and ask to substantiate this technology on your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said another police officer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you a police officer?
unidentified		No, I wasn't.
unidentified		I was a lawyer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lawyer?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not exactly the favorite of most police officers.
unidentified		No.
unidentified		But I would hope that someone might call in and substantiate any stories they've had about this technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the only thing I could suggest to you is to try and turn it on them.
		In other words, if you can control your thoughts sufficiently.
		It's very hard.
		If you could really run them ragged if you follow me.
unidentified		Well, I mean, lead them off different areas and stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, you could imagine doing all sorts of things that would have them sending resources all over the place, trying to prevent you from doing these evil deeds, and you'd be sitting at home watching TV, smiling.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the only thing I can think for you, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Otherwise, you're a done goose.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay?
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good luck.
		Blessed of the Rockies.
		You're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		This is Olin in Culver City, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We don't have a lot of time, Olin.
unidentified		Right.
		Last night, Harry said that he could make a gallon of hydrogen with 45 kilowatt hours.
		At one cent a kilowatt hour, it's 45 cents.
		I have my electric bill from Southern California Edison here, and it's 9.544 cents per kilowatt hour, which would be $4.29 a gallon for hydrogen.
		That's almost three times the price of gasoline.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but I know, but according to him, gasoline would have to go to that price to support the change, and the air would be the winner, the air over our cities and all the rest of it.
		And that's a pretty hard point to argue.
		Even if your math is correct, that's a really hard point to argue.
		We've got a break here, top of the hour, coming up.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 13, 2002.
		�� Don't need me this way.
		I can't survive.
		kids stay alive Riders on the storm, riders of the storm.
		Into this house we're born.
		Into this world we're thrown like a dog without a phone, and actor out of loan.
		Riders on the storm, there's a killer on the road.
		His brain is squirming like a toad.
		Take a long holiday.
		Let your children play.
		If you give this man a ride, sweet man will die.
		Chiller on the road, yeah Chiller on the
		road, yeah Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired February 13th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's coming up is bound to be interesting one way or the other, I'll tell you.
		Michael C. Luckman is what's coming, the founder of the Cosmic Majority, director of the New York Center for UFO Research.
		He's frequently made global news headlines from a 60s anti-war activist to his latest foray revealing a new totally human-like face on Mars.
		Yeah, you're going to get to see it.
		That has sent shockwaves about the world.
		Luckman is a powerful voice for social change and the evolution of the human species at the dawn of the new millennium.
		Dubbed the real-life counterpart to Mel Gibson in the hit movie Conspiracy Theory by CNN.
		Luckman was the first investigator to expose television's infamous alien autopsy as a hoax.
		He courageously broke the story of a special project launched, billionaire Lawrence Rockefeller to open the White House's secret X-Files.
		And then 15 cameras were rolling when he answered the official U.S. Air Force report about the crash of a flying saucer carrying alien occupants in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947.
		An outspoken lecturer and guest on many major TV shows like Geraldo, Extra Hard Copy, Current Affair, Luckman called NASA's stunning life on Mars announcement a trial balloon to gradually prepare all of us for actual contact with an extraterrestrial civilization.
		He organized the first demonstration at the UN calling on the world body to address the UFO issue and halt the buildup of Star Wars weapons that could trigger a real-life war of the worlds.
		Bill O'Reilly, host of the Fox News Channel's top-rated talk show, The O'Reilly Factor, once asked Luckman to bring a live space alien onto the program so that he could score an exclusive interview with an extraterrestrial.
		Fox News anchorman Shepard Smith reported if and when the aliens finally land, Luckman is going to be able to say, I told you so.
		He taught the nation's first college course on rock music at the New School for Social Research, where he was director of publications.
		Folk singer Richie Havens joined Luckman at one of three major UFO conventions sponsored by the New York Center for UFO Research.
		Havens has endorsed Luckman's idea to hold a UFO Woodstock featuring numerous rock stars that have had UFO encounters.
		There are many, as a matter of fact.
		Michael Jackson told Luckman, I do believe in aliens.
		When the two men met in New York City last year, King of Pop signed the back of his UFO business card and accepted a small silver alien keychain in return.
		coming up in a moment, Michael C. Luckman.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of February 13, 2002 on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And now here is Michael C. Luckman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Luckman, welcome to the program.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm very glad to be on the program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have never spoken before, to the best of my knowledge, have we?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		No, we haven't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how have you escaped my attention as high-profile as you are, according to the market?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I have no idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You have found, you are claiming, a second face on Mars.
		Is that correct?
		Yes.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Now, I'd like to start out by making clarification.
		Actually, the discovery was made by a man by the name of Greg Ormay, O-R-M-A-Y, who's an amateur astronomer, and he had been in contact with Arthur C. Clarke, and I believe has continuing contact with him.
		He had spotted the photo, that is the image of this new, extraordinary new face on Mars.
		And Tom Van Flander and myself, together with Brian O'Leary, made the announcement of the discovery of this face recently at a news conference here in New York.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, now I'm looking at the face, and I'm about to tell the audience how to go see the face.
		When you first see the face, you go, holy crap.
		It's that strong.
		But what you have done here, I want to ask you about this as I launch people towards seeing this.
		Obviously, there is not this natural color on Mars.
		I mean, when we look at this face that I'm about to tell people how to get to, you know, it's got pigment to it.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		We've put the pigmentation in not to change any of the contouring at all, but simply so that people could see exactly, you know, just for purposes of making it a little bit more dramatic, the black and white image.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, what I want to ask you is the following.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Other than the pigmentation, which you've added, is there any other alteration in this photograph whatsoever?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		No, none at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a straight NASA photograph, then.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Other than the addition of the pigmentation.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		This is astounding, folks.
		And the way to see it is to go to my website, artbell.com.
		When you do that, let me see, let me follow the path myself.
		Go to Program Tonight's Guest Info.
		You'll see the name Michael C. Luckman there, and you'll see website, cosmicmajority.com.
		Just click on that link, cosmicmajority.com.
		Then click on either you've got a choice, HTML, I think, or the flash version.
		Just hit HTML.
		It's probably easier.
		Go to the O in comm is red planet.
		You know, it says cosmicmajority.com.
		Click on the planet, the red planet in the middle.
		Go all the way to the bottom, and on the left-hand side, it'll say the new face on Mars.
		Click on that.
		Go down, and there it will be in front of your eyes.
		And you go, oh my God.
		This doesn't just look like a face like Mars.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		It looks like your next-door neighbor, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This looks like your next-door neighbor.
		Yes, indeed.
		It does.
		Now, how much like your next-door neighbor does it look if you take the pigmentation away?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Exactly the same, really.
		I mean, it's exactly the same.
		There's absolutely no difference.
		I mean, it looks like a photograph of a human just superimposed on the face on the surface.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is an absolutely human face, like the guy next door, yeah.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		And it has a very kind of soulful feeling.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		There's definitely, it communicates a certain feeling that, let's say, the original face from Sidonia, as important as that is, just doesn't have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Where is this face located on Mars?
		Okay, this is a very good question.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		In reference to Sidonia, it's located in an area called Cirtis Major.
		That's spelled with an S, Cerdis Major, which is about 3,000 miles away from Sidonia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A long way then.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Now, the important new information, I was just speaking to Tom Van Flanden, is that what led to finding the face is, as you know, these photos from NAS and JPL are released.
		They're usually long, thin strips.
		The face, besides the face, the previous strip shows building-like objects off to the edge, which greatly enhances the likelihood, of course, that the face is artificially constructed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Building-like objects?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What sort of building-like objects?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I haven't seen that picture myself, but that was a description that Tom Van Flandren gave me.
		Yes, and I couldn't pin him down any more than that.
		I don't think he's given, obviously he's not given to hyperbole, so last person to be.
		So, you know, that's as far as we could make it, but he feels, as I do, that this greatly enhances the likelihood that it's artificially constructed, meaning that it was actually built by somebody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By somebody or by us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I mean, I don't know, by somebody.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		By us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		I'm just jumping ahead a little bit.
		There are a lot of people who think that we are Martians.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That there's a strong possibility that we are Martians.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's why I said us.
unidentified		Well, if you live in New York, then definitely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm serious.
		That there was a civilization on Mars.
		That Mars, obviously, for whatever reason, you can talk to Tom about that, lost its atmosphere.
		And when it did, they had the technology to get here and did, and we are they.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		No question about it.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I mean, even NASA, as conservative as they can be, have made statements like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That it could be.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		That it could be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Looking at this face, I would say that's a great likelihood, a very great likelihood.
		Either that or all life that evolves to our level looks more or less like us.
		One of the two.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I would agree.
		I would agree.
		And this thing is just so extraordinary.
		I hope that most of your listeners will be able to get to look at it because it's just amazing.
		We put together a videotape of life on Mars, new scientific evidence, and it shows scenes from the press conference, but most importantly, it shows some of these key pictures taken among the 65,000 photos that were taken by Mars Global Surveyor.
		And this, of course, is one of the probably the most single most important one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe it is.
		On the other hand, let me ask you about this.
		There is always the hundred monkey theory.
		And with that many photographs, that many strips, that much terrain, you know, the old hundred monkey thing.
		Isn't it possible that faces appear where the human mind, I mean, after all, we all pour over these photographs looking for anything at all that registers in our brain as not possibly not natural.
		The human mind looks for that.
		You're automatically looking for life or signs of life.
		Okay, so what about that theory then?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		No question about it.
		We look to put things on our, in terms that we can understand.
		On the other hand, unless there's something very strange about the wind, let's say on Mars, that creates not only faces repeatedly, but perfectly formed pyramids.
		For example, one of the areas that hardly ever gets mentioned is an area called Elysium, which Carl Sagan has spoken about.
		Elysium has, there are some photographs that were taken by NASA that shows huge pyramids, pyramids twice as tall as what's the size of the height of the World Trade Center.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pyramids?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Twice as tall as the height of the World Trade Center.
		For these pyramids to be naturally formed, the wind would have to be blowing, geologists feel, in the same direction, from three different directions.
		I'm sorry, at the same speed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's not possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think it's possible.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what's possible either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These pyramids, how perfectly shaped, how perfectly pyramidal are they?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		They're pretty perfect.
		They're quite perfect.
		They look identical to one another, and as I recall, there are five or six of them in the image.
		And there's at least one and possibly two images that were put out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you have to be familiar, of course, with the work of Richard C. Hogund, yes.
		Yes.
		With reference to the face at Sidonia, the other artifacts at Sidonia, and much more on Mars, in fact, including the worms.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've seen the glass worms?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, very interesting.
		Yeah, I would say in regard to the worms or the glass tubes, they're very, I mean, I'm of two minds in regard to them.
		I basically feel that there's something there extremely significant and that it might, in fact, have been some form of, you know, for water.
		I think of it more as like tunnels perhaps that were used for water at one time.
		Tom Van Flandern has been telling me that he has new pictures of more tunnels.
		He's examining, he's set aside about 100 photographs that indicate, you know, have for special treatment, things that show things that are unusual that are being further analyzed.
		And it includes quite a number of those pictures of the tunnels.
		On the other hand, though, the tunnels do have an organic feel to them.
		So from that point of view, you could say that the tunnels are a natural part of the surface.
		But I don't think so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they sure don't look natural to me.
		And I've looked at those, I don't know how many times, and it looks like either a tunnel, for as you put it, water, which may be under the surface of Mars.
		We're about to find out, I guess.
		Or transportation, or you could imagine a million different things, but they sure don't look like natural formations.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, they come up and they wind all over the planet, it seems.
		And this face that I'm looking at here, you know, very, you know, we held a news conference in New York on this face, and the New York Post, for example, did run almost a page on it, and they had a giant picture of it.
		And it did get picked up here around on some television, et cetera.
		But considering the import of what it is, this is why we decided to put together this videotape, which is getting great currency now.
		And if I may, I would just like to mention that people can go to www.shoptera, S-H-O-P-T-E-R-R-A.com, both to see the box art and the picture, as well as to order this tape,
		which has not only face on Mars, but also pictures of the tunnels and all kinds of other things, including possibly what Arthur C. Clarke and others, Tom Van Flander and myself, feel might be some form of vegetation or even giant trees.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we're going to get to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Arthur C. Clarke recently made a statement about large life on Mars.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you interpret what he said?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think he was referring to large vegetation or large trees.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I think he meant particularly beans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nevertheless, vegetation in large quantities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that what you also see?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Absolutely.
		I mean, it's stunning, but yes, it's there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How could it be there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How could you account for it being there?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		You know, it just is.
		Each one of the planets in the solar system are so different from one another.
		And we're just discovering extraordinary things almost every day or every few weeks, it seems.
		And so there it is.
		I mean, there are lots of discoveries like that to be made.
		And I'm glad that the pictures were released and that people were able to see them.
		And then like Tom Van Flander and scientists have been pouring over them and been finding extraordinary things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you happen to know how NASA explains these massive vegetation?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		What do they say?
		I don't know exactly.
		I think, if I'm not mistaken, I think they talk about something having to do with permafrost in regard to these trees, or these vegetation areas that we're calling that.
		But you would have to ask them for more elaboration on it.
		But of course, as you know, NASA very rarely ever confronts the thing head-on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, as you know, there's been a recent big change at NASA at the head of the helm.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there may be new blood on the way with regard to a manned mission to Mars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I think it's very possible.
		And, you know, it would do a number of things.
		I mean, I think there is obviously this legitimate interest in it.
		As a matter of fact, it was just a poll that was done, a survey conducted by NASA that found that it seems the majority of Americans support a manned mission to Mars.
		Yes, isn't that 54,000 people?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that interesting?
		Now, hold that thought.
		We'll come right back to it.
		That is interesting.
		The poll numbers are going up.
		And I think that's what they want.
unidentified		You're listening to Arc Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 13th, 2002.
		You is a woman that I thought I could never find.
		Just trying to decide.
		Oh, stay by yourself.
		I know I could.
		I just can't find the answers to the questions that keep going through my mind.
		Baby, is the...
		Music With the bad molds at the low head, it's a wonder I can think of everything.
		With education hasn't hurt but none I can leave the writing on the wall Hold a throne Give us the nice bright colors Give us the green to summer Mexican thought of work Sunday
		day, oh yeah I got a knife on the camera I love the table photograph So far from the day My point of rainbow day If you took all the girls that I knew When I was single You brought them all
		together for one night I know they never match my sweet imagination I know they never match my sweet imagination You're listening to Arc Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an on-core presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 13th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, there is no question about this.
		Even the raw image, and I'm going to give you the raw image number in a moment.
		I've got it from Fast Blaster Anonymously.
		Fast Blasting from Las Vegas says the face is real.
		It's MOC image number M0202051A.gif.
		And I'm going to give that to you again in case you want to see it without the pigmentation.
		Absolutely real.
		Number M, as in Mary, 0202051A.gif.
		So this face is real.
		And I'll tell you, when you see the face, you are going to go, oh my God, I wonder if we're the Martians.
		It really is a legitimate question for some.
		Stay right there.
unidentified		Stay right there.
		You're listening to Arc Bell somewhere in time On Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 13, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coast to Coast AM Now, Michael, the other face, the one at Sidonia, is said to look vaguely human on one side and perhaps feline on the other side.
		Yeah, perhaps.
		This face isn't vaguely anything except human.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		No question about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what does that mean to you, Michael?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		It means the obvious.
		I happen to, for example, be a student of Zechariah Sitchin or a believer in Zechariah Sitchin.
		I mean, it's hard to be specific here as to exactly what we're looking at.
		It does have, similar to the original face on Mars, it does have a pharaoic type or some kind of almost Egyptian-like crown.
		Most people actually perceive this as the face of a woman.
		Some people see it as the face of a young man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see it as a man.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do people see this as a woman?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, some people do.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Actually, more people see it as a woman than as a man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, not me.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a guy.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I see it as a guy myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what is striking and really just blows me away is the, I mean, the mouth is clear, the nose is clear with shadowing, the eyes are clear and the eyes are distinct.
		The forehead is geologically wrinkled.
		Yeah, that's for sure.
		And then there's this crown.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and by the way, it's roughly the size of the original Sidonia face.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it really?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At what resolution are we?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure at what resolution.
		I had asked Tom Van Flander, by the way, today about whether NASA could take more pictures of this.
		And unfortunately, with the current camera that they're using on the Mars Odyssey mission, they're set up with thermal imaging equipment, which is supposed to shoot in mid-March, approximately the original face.
		And that should tell us a lot about the original face and could answer the entire question as to whether it's artificial or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we were talking about polls a minute ago.
		For a long time, the American public didn't want really a damn thing to do with going to Mars because it was going to cost a whole lot of money.
		Now, all of a sudden, those numbers do appear to be changing in favor of a manned mission to Mars.
		Now, have we been getting slow release information designed to do exactly that and build us toward a consensus to, by God, we've got to get to Mars?
		Do you believe that's been going on?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think so.
		I think so.
		I don't think that all these pictures necessarily would be available to us.
		Obviously, when they dumped 65,000 pictures out, they knew that it would be poured over by people like you and me and so many other scientists, astronomers, and whatnot.
		And so they allowed them out.
		I think that that says quite a lot right there.
		There is also very much, I would say, a political factor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know, but that's a little like, you know, if you're an attorney, you're in the middle of a lawsuit, you request a document, and they bring in a warehouse, you know, and they bring in a warehouse of documents, and you've got to go through that warehouse to maybe find the document you're looking for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They can drown you in information.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, they knew it would take, you know, a certain amount of time, but that people would be persistent, and that eventually it would come out.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I also think that the Bush administration, probably because for fairly obvious reasons, the fact that people are so worried now about the terrorist problem, that this is a way of taking attention away from that and putting attention off onto some great adventure for the moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go to Mars, yes.
		Well, they're right about that.
		It would divert our attention a little bit from what's been going on.
		It's been pretty serious and scary.
		And this at least is sort of on the I guess let me rephrase that.
		Depending on what we would find on Mars, Michael, I'm not sure how the news would be received.
		And maybe that's something we ought to spend a little time getting your opinion on.
		If a mission to Mars resulted in irrefutable evidence that there had been life on Mars and that probably that life had been us or our ancestors, Michael, the resulting furor over news like that would be beyond calculation.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure that there would be a fur over it.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I mean, certainly there's a religious dimension to all this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's nothing in the Bible, Genesis, about Mars.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not like we were on Mars and we got tossed off to Earth or something.
		It all began here, and that's how it began.
		That's the only way it began.
		And if other news came that we really were on Mars first, that would have serious implications.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		It would upset the apple cart to some extent, maybe a whole lot.
		I mean, it's impossible to know without it.
		It's just a theoretical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not that theoretical, Michael.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I talk with a lot of fundamentalists here on the air, and I can guarantee you they'd flip their wigs.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, there you go.
		The Christian fundamentalists, of course.
		And by the way, it was the Christian fundamentalists and the Reverend Jerry Falwell and the Moral Majority, which fortunately doesn't exist anymore, that prompted me to set up the CosmicMajority.com, which is an alternative.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, what was it about Mr. Falwell and Moral Majority that drove me to the point?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I don't want to get into particulars.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I think it kind of speaks for itself to anyone who is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then you have clashed, I take it, with the religious right.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I actually haven't.
		I just have my own opinions about it.
		and also the Christian right isn't particularly open to the subject of UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, they're not.
		No, they're definitely not.
		As a matter of fact, I heard that Joan Rivers had somehow, I guess, invited you to be on her show to discuss the whole UFO cover-up thing, the whole business about UFOs, and somehow or another that got retracted.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I was disinvited.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, let me just.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Disinvited?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Let me explain essentially what happened with it.
		That's interesting.
		Joan, a friend called me and told me that Joan was on her late-night show talking about UFOs or wanting to talk about UFOs and asking callers to call in who knew anything about the subject.
		Really?
		I wouldn't normally, I don't often call in to talk on shows, unless I'm invited as a guest, but sometimes I do.
		In this case, she was pleading, so I called her up and I laid out on her in about 10 minutes, and you know how Joan is, talk, talk, talk.
		Well, she just kept her mouth shut for the whole 10 minutes, and I proceeded as much as a person could possibly do in 10 minutes to lay out for her the extent of the cover-up.
		She was aware of the, she was upset because she had seen a report on CNN regarding the Washington news conference that was held by the Disclosure Project, and she saw all of these military guys up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You referred to Dr. Greer as well.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		And she didn't know why it was, she was upset that it wasn't reported on in the newspapers.
		So I explained to her what exactly had taken place there, and that there was, you know, that these military officials, former military officials and military intelligence people, that there are a lot of them, they had very specific things to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you there?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		No, I wasn't there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you read all this?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I read all of this.
		And additionally, I talked to her about the Lawrence Rockefeller report, the briefing document, which at one time was fairly secret, which went to world leaders, and facts like that.
		And at the end of all of this, she obviously was quite stunned.
		Her assistant came on the line and said, Joan would like to have you on as a guest for a whole hour and that next week, early in the week.
		And then she apparently had a change of heart over the weekend.
		The explanation given to me is, well, Joan did UFOs already.
		Now she wants to move on to something else, but we'll get back to you, whatever.
		And the door isn't closed there.
		But I think, frankly, she's a little afraid of it because I don't hold back.
		I mean, I, like you, I just say what I feel and, you know, let the chips fall where they may.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you had gone on her show as a guest, what would you have said about UFOs?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would have said that at this point, I mean, I'll debate the subject with anybody about whether UFOs exist or not, but I'm way past that.
		I would say that the most, well, I don't even know where to start as far as evidence.
		I mean, there's so much evidence starting from the, you know, including the Rockefeller report, the disclosure project, and the people who were involved with that, the former military men, former astronauts.
		I mean, things that you've often talked about on your own show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me respond, as Joan might have.
		I know Joan.
		I met her in Los Angeles.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very nice lady.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So why in God's name don't they land at the U.N. or at the White House?
unidentified		That's what she'd say, probably.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, probably because we're not ready to deal with them, and that's sort of evidenced by the fact that she disinvited me.
		I think people are just afraid to deal with it.
		Some people are not.
		Listeners to your show, and mostly are not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not even a little afraid of it.
		I deal with it all the time.
		You are convinced they are here, and you believe that we have not yet been officially contacted because we're not ready.
unidentified		Is that correct?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		But you know what would be very interesting, Ark?
		I don't know if you're open to this, but let me just throw it out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		anything.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if you've ever done anything like this, but wouldn't it be interesting if we could...
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		What if everyone right now took the next, let's say, minute to send out a message, psychically, if you will, to any extraterrestrials that might be out there in the United States or wherever they may be located, your listeners?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Michael, I won't do it.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Why not?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because you really want to know?
		I'll tell you.
		I'll consider it, but I don't think I'll do it.
		Because I've been doing these mind experiments, Michael.
		I don't know how much of a listener you've been in the past.
		But I've done a series of very, very, very serious mind experiments, some which have been measured on graphs by random number generators.
		I mean, serious stuff here.
		And I believe this is real.
		And I'm going to be very frank with you and the audience, Michael.
		If we did something like that, I'd say there's a fair chance we might get some actual response.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I can tell you, Art, that I did this on a local radio show here in New York some years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		And sure enough, I'll be damned.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I got a call from some people who were very serious at seeing a UFO, a red object that very evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, Michael, how do you know what you're inviting in?
		I mean, suppose we were successful.
		There are many in the UFO community, well, not many, but at least a significant vocal minority, who say, wait a minute, don't be idiots.
		Yes, maybe They're out there.
		I agree, they're out there, but who's to say they're friend or foe?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		What is your position on that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My position doesn't matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess my position would be: I don't know if they're friend or foe.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		No, and I'm sure that they're not all friendly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you live in New York, you said, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, in the city?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Before you open your door, you usually look through a little hole, don't you?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		But then, I mean, then again, Art, you know, we have the, you know, the SETI project.
		I mean, certainly, I mean, we've sent out signals all over the place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
		You know what?
		Actually, they sent one signal.
		SETI sent one signal from Arecibo, Michael, and then they've never sent one since.
		And one of the reasons they've never sent one is the same reason I just cited to you, that many scientists have said it might not be a really bright idea to put a beacon out there and say, here we are, you know.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is what I feel.
		I feel like you, that we're in very rough shape environmentally and with a terrorist situation, which I don't think is going to go away at all.
		I mean, the government tells us that this will not end in our lifetime, that this war will not end in our lifetime.
		And I think, in fact, as unpleasant as it is, that we may, in fact, be living in what in the New Testament is referred to as the end times.
		They hate to say that, but I think that that might be the same.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you can say that.
		I tend to agree on the terrorism thing.
		Did you hear what Ted Turner said about that?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ted Turner said, quote, the reason that the World Trade Center got hit is because there are a lot of people living in abject poverty out there who don't have hope for a better life, end quote.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, boy, my estimation of Ted Turner has risen enormously.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You agree with that?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Absolutely.
		I mean, it's a tough sleep.
		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, in a sense, I can understand what he said, but I don't agree in the specific instance that that was the motivation behind this for one second.
		I think this is a clash of religious beliefs, radical religious beliefs.
		It's just a simple clash, and they want us dead.
		You know, simple as that.
		There's nothing else.
		They just flat out want us dead.
		And I don't know that it's because we are, by comparison, rich.
		I think it's because we are comparison to them barbarians, heathens, blasphemers.
		We are everything that they hate.
		And our materialism is only a part of that.
		It's what we think and believe.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a big part of that, too.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that, you know, I think that that's true.
		I really think that our time is running out and that we ought to use the time to try to reach out in some way in a positive manner.
		I think if we put out a positive spiritual message, then we're most likely to attract positive beings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are many who believe that that which you call a UFO and those that you call alien beings that inhabit them or pilot them are actually evil entities.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's your right-wing Christian fundamentalist, Chuck Missler and people like that.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		If that's the case, they haven't anything evil, let's say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It depends on your view of current evil in the world.
		You absolutely rule that out.
		It could not possibly be evil entities of some sort.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't rule that out.
		I would say this.
		I say that there are all kinds of positive and negative forces out there, and you do have to be concerned about that.
		But on the other hand, what I'm saying is that considering the situation that we all find ourselves in now, which is totally unique, I think that we have little choice but to try to reach out and to have some kind of contact with what obviously are highly advanced beings and hopefully of the positive variety.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hopefully.
		Hopefully.
		There are many in the UFO community, Michael, that believe there are good guys and bad guys among behind the 57 aliens that are out there.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know about the variety, the number of, you know, I don't know about that, but I do think that the majority of the beings out there are positive.
		But I also think there could be some absolutely vicious ones out there.
		But on the other hand, I think that looking at the overall situation that we find ourselves in, that it would make sense for us to attempt a contact as opposed to just not doing that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe, Michael, but I mean, how do we look through the keyhole before we open the door?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Carefully.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, carefully is right.
		Hold on, we're at the top of the hour.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 13th, 2002.
		For sure, for so long.
		For so long.
		Listening to the strangest stories Wondering where it all went wrong For so long For so long But hold on, hold on, hold on What do I do?
		Draw
		You shouldn't worry, I said that ain't no crime Cause if you get it wrong, you'll get it right next time Next time Next time Next time You can directly give me what you said.
		Everyone, you can recognize the sign if you can wrong.
		You can recognize somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 13th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anybody who interprets my remark, as a couple past blasters did, to mean that I agree with Ted Turner is out of your mind.
		I think that his statement is pure de-lunacy.
		The reason the World Trade Center got hit is because there are a lot of people living out there in abject poverty who don't have any hope for a better life.
		I didn't know why they did it.
		They did it because of a clash of belief systems, and in their belief system, we're all a bunch of barbarians who have to die so that their belief system can spread.
		And so I don't agree with this at all.
		You've got that impression you're wrong.
		Anyway, we've got with us Michael C. Luckman.
		We're talking about a new face on Mars.
		And yes, this is one you've got to see.
		Other Fast Blasters are saying, lead me to it.
		I missed what you said.
		All right.
		Last time I'm going to do this, because you really do have to see this.
		So go to my website, artbell.com.
		Click on program or hold your cursor over program.
		Just simply click on tonight's guest info.
		Wednesday night, Thursday morning, Michael C. Luckman's name will appear.
		Click on his website, thecosmicmajority.com.
		You get that cosmic majority, like moral majority.
		And then click on either one of the choices and then click on the red plant.
		When you do, go all the way to the bottom.
		Read what's there if you wish.
		Go all the way to the bottom.
		And on the left, at the very bottom, it'll say the new face on Mars.
		Click on that and go down and there will be the face.
		Now, there's absolutely no doubt about it.
		Though the pigmentation has been added for effect.
		Otherwise, the photo is unretouched.
		And this is a human face.
		To me, it's a man's, human face.
		Human, man's face.
		Very well, very, very well defined.
		Now, could this be the product of the hundred monkey syndrome?
		You know, look at gazillions of strips dumped on us from NASA?
		Yeah, maybe.
		Could it be it is indeed a human face?
		Could be.
		And then one more thing.
		A lot of people who are seeing this are seeing a second face.
		Lots and lots of Fast Blasters saying there is a second face there.
		And I'm not exactly sure that I've seen it yet.
		I'm looking.
		It's harder to see because you've got to ignore the pigmentation.
		What I should do is get this GIF and take the pigmentation out and then look and see if the second face hits me hard, as it has some.
		And in quite a few fast blasts saying there is a second face there.
		We'll talk about that in a moment.
		At any rate, whatever you do, you do really have to get over and see this.
		may have very, very, very significant meaning.
unidentified		The End Now, we take you back to the night of February 13, 2002, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Art Bell Once again, here is Michael C. Luckman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Michael, I'm curious, why do they compare you, or does anybody compare you, or do you compare yourself to the character in Conspiracy Theory?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, it wasn't me.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		It was CNN Showbiz Today when they did a report at the time that the movie came out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think they compared you?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not sure, actually.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I never saw the movie, so I can't tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		No, I've never saw the movie.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Maybe you can tell me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can.
		Sure, I can.
		I did see it.
		It was a character.
		It was Mel Gibson, and he was portrayed to be a deeply paranoid character who thought the government and the men in black and so forth were chasing him and affecting his life.
		And he was, of course, right.
		They were.
		So it was justified paranoia.
		That's how the movie came out.
		But what I mean is, so does that describe the way you feel?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Not really.
		I don't, for example, I mean, the government is a government, but I don't really feel like men in black are chasing me or anything, even coming close to that.
		On the other hand, I know that you do certain things or you stand for certain things, and you do have to sometimes bear the consequences.
		So I mean, I don't, you know, I'm sure a lot different than that character.
		What I'm trying to accomplish with the CosmicMajority.com is to create A vehicle for people that would represent the views of what I consider to be the majority of individuals living on the planet who are pro-UFO,
		belief in UFO, belief in life on Mars and elsewhere throughout our solar system and beyond, as well as concern for the sanctity of the environment and continuation of life past death as we know it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I take it that you saw the Air Force news conference which attempted to debunk the Roswell crash in 1947, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you had some comments on that.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, actually the Roswell thing at this point already is so, I mean, what was the 50th anniversary was about four years ago, so this is four years old now.
		That's right.
		No, I gave kind of a history of what was going on.
		My concern about the Roswell incident is that there have been just so many, as you know, so many witnesses.
		I mean, it's in the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and overlapping stories.
		And I think by last count, I don't know what, four or five, at least four or five different crash sites and widely varying descriptions.
		I don't know that we'll ever get to the truth, frankly, on what happened.
		But four years ago at that news conference, I spoke about the preposterous attempt by the Air Force to talk about crash test dummies being dropped as an explanation for what may have been perceived as bodies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was a preposterous news conference, no question about it.
		I saw it live and I laughed my way through it.
		It was awful.
		Awful.
		Now, that obviously then indicates that you certainly believe that our government is aware that there are things traversing our atmosphere and just outside it that are not human, in craft that are not human construction.
		Is that fair?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, absolutely.
		No doubt about it.
		Now, you had David Sareda and Dan Aykroyd on recently, I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		And showing, or talking about, I should say, the videotape that Serreta put together called, I believe it's called Evidence.
		That's put together by the, that's distributed by the same people, incidentally, ShopTurre.com.
		And that shows extraordinary things.
		I mean, it shows, as far as I'm concerned, undeniable proof of extraterrestrials.
		And I think that Serrata may be on to something of Einsteinian proportions if it proves out.
		I mean, I'm no physicist, and I plan to get a prominent physicist here in New York to look at it and to see what his appraisal is.
		But if it holds up, I mean, it's unbelievable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I certainly agree with that.
		I don't know if it's irrefutable proof, and I'm not even sure what irrefutable proof would be, short of, you know, somebody landing and submitting to examination of craft and body and all the rest of that.
		That's irrefutable.
		But, you know, photographs, videotape, I don't know.
		Irrefutable?
		Not necessarily, in my opinion.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, as you know, I mean, there was an amazing incident that occurred at the end of that tether where instrumentation was changed, and NASA has absolutely no explanation for that at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the tether instrument experiment where they laid out this tether, and they got so much more power than they expected that it literally flash-burned the tether right off the spacecraft.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, what do you conclude from that?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was more than that, actually, because there was change in the instrumentation.
		NASA put out something like a 375-page report on it, and they had absolutely no explanation for how the instrumentation and several different factors on the instruments had changed, and that wasn't done by us.
		So how did that occur?
		And it happened at the same point at which there was a swarm of these what Serrata believes is two-mile across circular objects.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think that, I mean, to speculate for me, do you think that we were in the process of, in your opinion, discovering something that they did not wish for us to discover?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		That who didn't wish?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		The aliens or the aliens?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, what would be the motivation for their action in this case?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		Of course, they've always shown an interest in our nuclear weapons storage areas.
		UFOs have been on record being in nuclear storage around nuclear storage weapons areas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even launch areas.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and there have been other cases where there have been changes of instrumentation.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		So this follows that pattern.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you really think that one way or the other, what happened there in New York, where you are, impacted ufology in any way and the whole extraterrestrial issue in any way at all?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, sure.
		I mean, it impacted, let's face it, it impacted everything to such an extraordinary degree.
		However, I do feel that given the unique circumstances that we're living under now, the tremendous instability in the world, that this is a prime, and the ongoing wars, this is a prime time when UFOs, if ever, are going to make a showing.
		It's around this period, generally speaking.
		Because as you know, it had been seen during the Vietnam War and during World War II, the famous Foo Fighters, etc.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		And even I understand in the Gulf War.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		So I would not be surprised if there was a flap of sizable proportions because we're kind of overdue on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You expect one then.
unidentified		I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what do you think that means?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think it means that they observe big-time strife and problems here on the planet?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I do.
		But the fact, of course, the ultimate indication that they, at least in the past, haven't really injected themselves into our reality is the Holocaust and that they didn't intercede in some fashion.
		So that always people say, well, what good are they?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To which you would say, what?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what the answer is.
		I mean, you could say in regard to God, for those who believe in God, I'm one of them.
		That, you know, how do you explain churches burning down, millions of other tragedies happening throughout history?
		I don't know what the answer is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I certainly don't know what the answer is with regard to God's thing.
		Maybe it's free will, I don't know.
		But with regard to aliens, one answer might be that they don't have our best interests necessarily at heart.
		Maybe they're waiting for us to blow ourselves the hell off the face of the earth, which we've come pretty close to a few times already.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, of course, there are other, there are certainly more than, I don't believe that there are 50 or 30 different alien groups surveilling the earth right now, but I do think that there's more than one kind, and not necessarily, I'm not saying all of them are good, but I am saying that if they were in the main negative types, I think we would have seen many, many much more evidence of negative activity.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		And I don't see that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even the mafia has some rules that it follows, some sort of code of honor that it follows.
		So maybe aliens are not able to interfere.
		Maybe there is some larger rule about not interfering, you know, the prime director thing.
		If there is, then maybe there's a few that are just waiting for prime land to become available.
		If you follow me?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, sure, it could be that.
		But then on the other hand, you know, you look at the, if you follow the Sitchin doctrine, then you, at least those extraterrestrials, did have extreme contact with the human race.
		In fact, possibly, very likely created us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You two then believe that we were originally created to mine gold?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, you know, if somebody hears about the Sitchin belief just in those terms as their first introduction to it, it sounds a little off the wall.
		But no, I do.
		I do.
		I do think that we work with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I have interviewed Zachariah many times, and so I know what he believes, and I know what you're saying regarding just that statement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, that is kind of the basis of what he argues, after all.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, that is a part of it.
		Absolutely.
		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, how does Mars fit into this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you believe in what Zachariah says, how does Mars and what we're finding on Mars fit into this?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, Mars, apparently, in regard to the 10th planet, was a way station on the way to the Earth.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, you look at this particular image of the new face, it doesn't particularly look to me like an Anunnaki or a Nephilim or whatever you want to call it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it looks like us.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it looks like us.
		Even though they looked a lot like us, in fact, they were us in a sense, but they did have very large, pronounced, you know, large noses and weak chins.
		And this looks just kind of normal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kind of normal, yes.
		Now, we are presently, it seems, that our government, Michael, is proceeding again toward a space-based defense system of some sort.
		You know, we're going to put a lot of money into that.
		Star Wars, I don't know, they're going to not probably call it Star Wars.
		They're going to call it home defense or something.
		Sounds better.
		But we're obviously going to be putting some sorts of weapons in space.
		Now, you know, I've had Stephen Greer on the show a lot of times.
		You referenced him earlier.
		He has deep reservations about doing that.
		What about you?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I absolutely do also.
		You know, I definitely feel it's there for there are various reasons why the government would put these weapons in space, but I think that definitely UFOs is one of the main reasons.
		And I think it's no way to roll out the welcome mat, so to speak.
		On the other hand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there is another hand, isn't there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, if they're not the warm, fuzzy little ones that we all hope they would be.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, if they're not, certainly our little toy guns or lasers or whatever we have, and some of it's pretty sophisticated, but still is going to not be very effective against a superior race.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		That's not to say that we wouldn't try to put up some defense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, see, I was about to ask, if we were on the verge of being taken over and enslaved, an entire planet enslaved, indentured to do some lousy work for some aliens, and that was going to be the context of their arrival here, what then, Michael?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you fight?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I would, well, yeah, it's an interesting point.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's impossible to know until that time would arrive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or would you just conclude their technology is obviously so superior that there's no point in fighting?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, from a military point of view, I would conclude that, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would.
		All right.
		Hold it right there.
		So, we'd all be shining the shoes of little creatures that have six toes or something.
		Doing their bidding.
		We'd have to just give up because our toys aren't big enough.
unidentified		You're listening to Ark Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 13th, 2002.
		You know, don't come easy.
		But to make you want to see the words, and you don't know me, you don't have to shout only about the play baby.
		Get about the pan and hold your time.
		You just want that.
		It will soon be over.
		Don't ask for words, I only want to say, no, it don't come easy, and it's proper magic.
		It's not a good thing.
		Where are those happy days?
		They seem so hard to find.
		I tried to reach for you, but you have lost your mind.
		Whatever happened to our love, I wish I understood.
		It used to be so nice, it used to be so good So when you're near me, darling, can't you hear me?
		It's so nice I'm sorry.
		The love you gave me, nothing this can save me, S.O.S.
		When you're gone, how can I even try to go on?
		When you're gone, though I try, how can I carry on?
		Thank you.
		It seems so far away from what you're standing here.
		You make me feel alive, but something better.
		I really try to make it up.
		I wish I always knew what happened to our love that used to be so below.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired February 13th, 2002.
		Hop of the morning, everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is going to be interesting.
unidentified		What's coming up is going to be very, very interesting indeed.
		So keep your radio parked, take a deep breath, and get ready.
		Scoffs
		Now, we take you back to the night of February 13, 2002, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Art Bell Once again, here is Michael C. Luckman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Michael, it looks like your website, which is, let me see, what is your website name again?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		CosmicMajority.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cosmic Majority has met up with the Art Bell Majority, and I'm told it's slowing to a crawl and actually sort of stopped right now.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I got to tell you that we got, just from the announcement on your website, we got 10,000, actually about 10,800 hits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean, just as we had you listed as a guest.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So a lot of people have gotten to see it anyway.
		And, you know, it'll loosen up later in the morning.
		Right.
		All right.
		Fortunately, I've got mine in my cache, so I can immediately refer back to it easily.
		And I've got the photo up.
		And what I want to say is this.
		First of all, when you all do get to see this photo, it is without question a human face.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		If I can, let me repeat again the other website that does have the photo that they could go to right now, which is www.shopter.com.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		The people who put out the videotape about this press conference announcing life on Mars.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Good.
		In the meantime, many, many people, Michael, have been seeing not one face here, but two.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm getting a lot of messages like that.
		And one of them is somebody, a voice that you will recognize.
		It's Richard Seahogland.
		Richard, you're on the air with Michael.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Evening, guys.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Hi, how are you doing?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Michael, it's been a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's been a while.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it has been.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we can all hear each other.
		Great.
		Live radio.
		All right.
		Tell Michael and the country what happened, the sequence that winds me up talking to you guys right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You looked at the photograph for the first time tonight, correct?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, second or third.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I'd seen it when Tom Van Flander and Jetty's press conference.
unidentified		That's right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And I must tell you, I was not impressed.
		You know, I am so used to Sagan's dismissal of sand dunes and the face of Jesus Christ on a tortilla chip, which is how he had dismissed Sidonia for years, that our criteria for, you know, when there's something really down there is pretty stringent.
		And the first thing I look for is geometry.
		And we have that in abundance at Sidonia.
		And when I looked at this site in Syridis Major, what we didn't have was any geometry.
		Now there is, as Michael said, there's some other stuff not that far away that's kind of intriguing, but it isn't close Enough to really be related.
		It's probably 100 miles away or more.
		So I was very, very skeptical.
		God, I can't even believe I'm using that term in terms of this space until I heard that Michael was going to be on tonight.
		So I went through the long procedure, got to his website, pulled it up on the screen, fortunately, before everybody else did.
		And I'm sitting here about three feet back, and I'm listening to you guys talk.
		And I suddenly said, oh my God, because I saw a second face.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		You didn't know that there was a second face up to this point?
unidentified		No.
unidentified		Oh.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		This was literally, it's an hour old.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but you had seen the picture before.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I had seen the picture before of the so-called, what do they call this, a little king or something?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, originally he was calling it something like that.
unidentified		Yeah.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		So I called Art.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I called Art, and I kind of didn't tell him what I saw.
		I wanted him to find it for himself.
		And he didn't tell me, I had to hear this on the air, that he's getting a lot of fast blasts of other people around the country.
		That's the beauty of this audience, who are seeing it.
		So I now have my independent confirmation I'm not crazy, and I'm seeing what I'm seeing, and to me...
		Okay.
		What I'm seeing on the right-hand side, tilted at an angle, 45-degree angle, is a smaller face.
		And the right eye, as you're looking at the screen, of the human face is the left eye of the other face.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God, I do see it.
unidentified		You see it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And it's tilted.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And it looks, drum roll, please, simian.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure as hell does.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It looks like a primitive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I finally just got it.
		Just now, Richard.
		Yeah, it's simian.
		Yep.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Now, the reason this is so crucial, everybody, is because the message of Sidonia is the fusion of two species to produce the human being that we are.
unidentified		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		If we are Martians.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So you now go 3,000 miles away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, be damned.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		To, yes, it's that interesting.
unidentified		It is.
unidentified		It is.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You go 3,000 miles away to another, quote, work of art on Mars.
		And instead of seeing just one image, even though it's a frontal view, you could still dismiss it as tricks of light and shadow, looking at enough area, all that.
		But the idea of getting two faces that are right next to each other, that are composite artistic creation, where we have examples here on Earth, in the Mesoamerican tradition.
		We have 100,000-year-old examples in Paleolithic art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, I do see it, Richard.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		God.
		It's definitely there.
		In fact, I was getting some emails this afternoon about it already.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Michael, did you know about this before?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I did, yeah.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		How long have you seen it?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		How long have I known about it?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Have you known about it?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've known about it in recent times.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I mean, not from the very beginning, but I've known about it recently.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, how long?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I don't know.
		I mean, what's the difference?
		I mean, I've been aware of it, and, you know, not everyone...
		Yeah, no, no, I saw it myself.
		I saw it myself, and I think it's highly significant.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		In your blurb on your website, why don't you make it then?
		Because this is the significance.
		One face you can dismiss, but a composite species consistent with the other face at Sidonia relating to somebody tinkering with the human species, doing what Sitchin and others have talked about.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, Tom and I have discussed the second face.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		And Tom and I have discussed the second face, and he believes, as apparently you do, that it definitely adds, you know, from a technical standpoint, it definitely adds to the fact that it has to be artificial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you, the possibility of this occurring by chance in two separate locations, then you begin to really pile the numbers up pretty high.
		I've got to agree with that.
		Richard, I don't know what to say.
		Thank you.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You're quite welcome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have a good night, Richard.
		You too.
		Talk to you soon.
unidentified		Thanks, Richard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is startling.
		Now, He's absolutely right about that.
		The striking thing about Sidonia was the division of the face.
		And the fact that one looks Homo sapien and one looks Simeon, and then you come over here, and as striking, as incredible as your face is, to have this Simeon example next door, now the odds of that one, those have to be pretty high, Michael.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		They're extremely high.
		They're absolutely extremely high.
		This face is, you know, it all ties together.
		I mean, no one's saying that this face versus the other face, it all ties together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it does.
		Well, that's the whole point.
		It does tie together, and that begins to make a pretty strong case.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and NASA, by the way, similarly has dismissed this as a trick of light and shadow and pile of rocks.
		That sentiment has been expressed already about this phase.
		So we were kind of prepared for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you are aware of the new Mars mission that's now in orbit around the planet, about ready to get to work, right?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Mars Odyssey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're aware that NASA has suddenly made Sidonia an extremely high priority?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think they've done that after all they've said, Michael?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, you can come up with a different, you can postulate a number of different points of view on it.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		One might be, depending on what they feel, I mean, this thermal imaging camera equipment will be able to tell, of course, the layering and should be able to answer once and for all whether this is an artificial, whether the cydonia face is artificial or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Based on what they've said, why would they care?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, they have been tricks of light and shadow since the very beginning, even stridently, adamantly poo-poo-pooing this whole thing, and now suddenly it's an area of high-pressure.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, the public has demanded answers on the Sidonia face has become such a causal web that you could argue both ways, that either they want to put the thing to rest or that perhaps they want to let us in on what they perhaps may already know or highly suspect, that this is the real McCoy and that this is proof positive of a of an ancient civilization
		on Mars and and you believe And in turn, accelerating the interest in a manned mission, which is something, of course, that Bush's father had been in favor of all along when he was president.
		Incidentally, these pictures could be released as early as mid-March.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the current spacecraft up there.
unidentified		Yeah.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		But I do have to admit it's a very interesting thing that they're making it a priority at this particular time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
		Do you think there will be, if you were to guess, Michael, do you think when we get the photographs, there is going to be this incredible, startling admission that maybe there is something to it afterwards?
		You know, that's what I'm saying.
		And by God, we might be able to justify a Mars mission afterwards.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's my feeling on it.
		It's definitely my feeling on it.
		Now, Tom Van Flanden sort of feels the opposite, it seems, but this is my gut feeling on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, Tom feels that the photographs will once and for all put this away as hogwash?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		I don't want to put words in his mouth.
		Actually, he didn't say that.
		What he said was that if it said that if it showed that it was artificial, that they might hold back on the release of them for some time, but that if it showed if it was natural, that they would be prone to put it out right away.
		It depends on your point of view.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm trying to second guess the jury.
		If they stay out for a long time, it means one thing.
		If they come back quick, it means something else.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, no, but my strong feeling is that this is going to be it, that this is going to, that we're going to know in a short time what the face means and that it's real.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		That the original Sidonia face is real, and consequently, by extension, that some of these other unique features, such as these giant pyramids, not only, well, the five-sided pyramid in Sidonia, the giant pyramids twice as tall as what the World Trade Center was in the Elysium section, and of course now in Cervus Major, this face, or this double face.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or this double face, yes.
		The implications of this are so staggering for everything that we've believed about ourselves that I would probably tend to agree with Tom that if they do come up with evidence, they are not just going to dump it on us suddenly and say, good Lord, people, here it is.
		Look, there was large life on Mars, and it was pre-humanity, or it had something to do with humanity's beginning, and that would throw so much up into the air, that moral majority that even though isn't still by name organized, but they're still out there.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're still out there, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're going to flip, and a lot of things are going to change, and you think we have flux now.
		Imagine the kind of flux we'd have if they came back with those answers.
		So I think Tom might be right.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		It's anyone's guess at this point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you feel compelled to take this information to the masses the way you're doing right now?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I think we're living in very unique times.
		My background is in journalism.
		When I see a good story, I just can't ignore it.
		I've always been like that.
		I was 18 years old when I was in college.
		I was the youngest college newspaper editor in the country.
		And I do have a knack for uncovering some unique things, such as the, I was the first person to go on record as expressing opposition to the alien autopsy as being flat out that it was a fake.
		And I was criticized by some people in the UFO movement as saying that it's jumping to conclusions.
		I said, my God, all you have to do is look at the thing.
		I mean, what's the debate?
		And I had a lot more than just the look of it.
		So I'm willing to take chances and go out on a limb if necessary.
		But I think we're living in a very unique time.
		And I think that perhaps in the relatively short time that we have, I mean, life's relatively short anyway, but in perhaps a more curtailed life, we should try to, at the very least, seek answers to some of these incredible questions that have to do with who we are and where we come from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And be prepared to accept the answers for what they are.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you think we will get to Mars?
		Any thoughts on what kind of technology we would use?
		How much money it's going to take?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's going to take an incredible amount of money.
		On the technology end of it, I'm not the one to talk to.
		That's Robert Zubrin or somebody like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if it's an incredible amount of money, it's going to take an incredible amount of justification.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Right, that's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you think this may be a well, I think it may be it.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I think it may be it.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I think that, yeah, I think that all signs seem to be pointing in this direction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why did you decide to put the pigmentation in this picture that you display?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I mean, obviously it makes it look I mean, it doesn't in any way change the configuration.
		And as a matter of fact, on the CosmicMajority.com website, when you can get it, we had it even my webmaster put in a pulsing effect, so it really came alive.
		But no, it was just for purpose of just adding a little dramatic effect.
		But if you look at the, I don't know if you've had a chance to look at the black and white version.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's the same minus the coloring.
		Yes, I understand.
		All right.
		What I would like to do is expose you to some of my audience.
		And I have no idea what's out there waiting for you.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could be some of that moral majority.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
		All right.
		We'll deal with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's ask one more time before the top of the hour about your video.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's in your video?
unidentified		Okay.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Essentially, the video shows the photograph of the new face on Mars, the tunnels, what appear to be giant trees and vegetation, the glass tubes, and what Tom Van Flanden refers to as arranged triangles that are nearly identical to one another.
		So it's packed with information.
		It's the best, most compelling photographs from 65,000 that came out by Mars Global Surveyor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How new is the video?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, the video has just come out very recently by Terra Entertainment.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		We had an earlier version of it, but this is the more serious version, if you will, the slicker version.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much is it?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I believe it's 1995, and they can also call 1-800-723-9479.
		And it's called Life on Mars, New Scientific Evidence.
		Brian O'Leary, who was trained to go as an astronaut to Mars on an earlier manned mission that never transpired, is on it.
		He says some very interesting things about the meaning of the face and some of the other objects.
		And, of course, Tom Van Flanden, who worked with the U.S. territory.
		He's on there too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on.
		Stay right there.
		We'll take a break and then call.
		I'm Art Bell from the High Desert.
		This, of course, is Coast to Coast AM, Raging Through the Nighttime.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 13, 2002.
		I really want to see you.
		I really want to be with you.
		I really want to see you, Lord, but it takes so long, my Lord.
		I really want to see you.
		Sweet Jesus, who had a lot of deserving.
		I traveled the world to meet.
		Everybody is looking for something.
		Some of them want to use you.
		Some of them want to get used by you.
		Some of them want to abuse you.
		Some of them want to be abused Sweet dreams are made of things.
		We're mine to discover.
		Travel the world and seven seeds.
		Everybody is looking for.
		You're listening to Watch Bell Somewhere in Time on Premiere Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 13th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is a very interesting night.
		Somebody just sent me something that I'm really kind of wild about.
		And I'll tell you all about it.
		In fact, I'll show it to you in a few moments.
		My guest is Michael C. Luckman.
		We're going to phones with Michael here in a moment.
unidentified		Stay right where you are Stay right where you are.
		Thank you.
		You're listening to Arc Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 13, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me very quickly check something on my website just before we jump into the phones here and see if it's already up.
		And if it is already up, I'm going to direct you to go see something that's pretty neat, I think.
		No, not up yet.
		I'm going to read you the email anyway because it's going to be up within about the next 10 minutes, okay?
		Just before we get back to Michael.
		Richard and Linda in Seattle sent this to me about an hour ago.
		Hello, Art.
		I don't know if you read your email.
		Obviously, I do.
		But I thought I would send you this redesigned picture of yours, sort of back to you.
		I looked at your website and love the site with your visit to the site where somewhere in time the movie was made.
		Yes, I did go there with my soulmate, my wife.
		My wife and I also love the movie.
		Time traveling is something I find fascinating.
		I'd love to go back to Michelangelo and Leonardo's time and just stay there and learn painting from them.
		I was surprised your wife is from another country.
		That's cool.
		When you mentioned that you were in the Air Force and were stationed in Okinawa, that was even more cool as I'm a product of a mixed marriage.
		My father was in the Air Force station in Japan in the 50s and married my cute little Japanese mom.
		Thus I was born in southern Japan.
		Enough about me, Ms. Bell.
		Thank you for the program.
		My wife found you on the radio a few years back, and we've listened to you on a regular basis since.
		Your topics are refreshing years back.
		Let me plow through all the nice things they're saying.
		Some of your topics stir my artistic imagination and gives me great subject matter to paint, like your wife.
		When I saw one particular sight of Ramona standing in that beautiful wine-colored dress in a nice flowing pose, you know, I thought I'd make something mysterious from it and send it to you.
		Hope I didn't make you mad by redoing the picture.
		If you look at the picture, you created a nicely composed shot.
		Thank you.
		I did, yes.
		With the hotel in the background.
		It would make for a great full-size painting in oils, very 19th century.
		Well, sir, thank you again for your show.
		You're awesome.
		What she sent was the most beautiful picture that she did.
		And here it is.
		It's now on my website at artbell.com.
		It's entitled Ramona Somewhere in Time Painting.
		And it's awesome.
		I mean, this really is awesome work.
		You know, it comes from a real photograph that we took at the hotel.
		And all she did was a little artistic work with it.
		And it really is cool.
		That is my wife, Ramona, my soulmate.
		And that is the hotel from Somewhere in Time in the background.
		And that's exactly, exactly where we took that photograph.
		And that's on my website right now.
		Really, really cool.
		So I want to thank Richard and Linda in Seattle.
		And Ramona will be waking up shortly.
		She's taking a nap.
		When she wakes up, I'm sure she's going to be very complimented.
		It's a beautiful picture.
		And she has very long hair, as you can see, and that's caught very well in this as well.
		Really cool.
		On my website right now at artbell.com, first item under what's new.
		You might let me know what you think.
		But that's a real photograph, a little artistic interpretation.
		Really, really cool.
		So we just slammed that right up on the site just this minute.
		All right, back now to Michael C. Luckman.
		And Michael, if you're ready, I've got the public ready for you.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely ready.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here they come.
		Let's see what happens.
		First time caller, you're on the air with Michael Luckman.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, how are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Ohio.
		Okay.
		I really don't have a question.
		I have mostly a comment, and it was on the speculation that if there were evidence to present or evidence were presented about some of these theories about human origins, that it might throw the Christians and conservative peoples into a tailspin.
		And I would have to disagree with that.
		I am a Christian, and I don't disbelieve any of the experiences that people have had or any of the things that show that there may be something out there.
		I'm not convinced what it is one way or the other, if it's actual extraterrestrial life, if it's spiritual beings, if it's a government thing.
		I really don't know.
		I am a very curious person by nature, and I also happen to be very conservative, but I think that it would not affect, I don't think that it would put doubt in the minds of Christians about human origin so much as it would just give people something else to argue about, similar to the way the theory of evolution did.
		I also think that maybe some of the reluctance on the part of Christians to delve into this too much could be stemming from the fact that we are physical beings living in the physical world, and we have very little understanding of the spiritual side of our existence.
		And because the Bible cautions us against communicating with the spirits, communicating with the dead, and that sort of thing, that people are afraid that they may be crossing a boundary that God has set for them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I understand the reluctance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Believe me, I do, Michael.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, you know, I mean, there are all degrees of belief, religious belief.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		And, for example, Father Balducci of the Vatican has come down, you know, very much on the side of Zachariah Sitchin, very open to the concept of the beings coming down here, perhaps from the Tenth Planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that is true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you aware of Father Balducci's statements?
unidentified		No, no, I'm really not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's something you should look into at the Vatican.
		Michael is absolutely right about that.
		But that's a little tiny crack in the armor, really, Michael.
		Amazing as his comments are, it's still a tiny crack.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think what's going to happen is I really think that what's going to happen is as things continue to decline, unfortunately, I hate to say that, but I think that that's really the picture, as things continue to decline environmentally and as this war thing continues to grind on and apparently expand and, you know, who knows where it's going, but this is going to be perhaps for our entire lifetime, unfortunately, as the government has stated.
		I think that there probably will be more UFO activity on a more pronounced basis.
		And I do feel that there will be a choosing up of sides, if you will, of people who feel, as I do, that these beings represented by UFOs or traveling in UFOs are positive or at the very least neutral in the main, and others who feel that they're negative entities and should be stayed away from it at all costs.
		And I think that there will be polarization.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You generally believe they're positive, correct?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Or positive and neutral.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would they abduct people?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, abduct people and conduct medical experiments on them, if you believe that occurs.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		No, I do believe that occurs.
		I've met many abductees, and I mean, nobody has the answer to that question.
		It's just a question without an answer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Abduction is like an alien word for kidnapping, you know?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, you could say the word kidnapping, but I did.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but, you know, it's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Taken without your will is a pretty good, loose, but accurate definition, right?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, sure, but the thing is that if the...
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Michael C.D. Luckman.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, I had a really good question for you.
		I think it's really good.
		Have you read the book Dune?
		Who was it?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Was that Dune?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dune.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		D-U-N-D.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I haven't read it myself.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Have you read what the movie was based on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've read it, Caller.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's the point?
unidentified		Well, as opposed to the tunnels that were on Mars and based thereafter, I know it's an understanding of fiction, therefore non-fiction, but there's a lot of information behind that book that would deal with a lot to our first mission to the moon and some of its representatives talking there.
		I don't want to get into that.
		It's personal.
		By the way, this is Earl, and I'm listening to you on KFH in Wichita.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
unidentified		And friend or foe, I think foe, because most opposites that we find, I think we're afraid of the unknown.
		And most times out of 10, even if it is just a gesture, the understanding of it is unknown to us.
		And we wind up taking an offense.
		And I propose they would do that too as being friend or foe.
		If we ever did meet intelligent life from another planet or are there for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, at the very least, if we have an encounter, it might be a 50-50 proposition.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, they could end up meeting as well, or they could end up, you know, with us as you remember the cookbook episode, right, of Parliament?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, they really, I mean, through history, there really isn't evidence.
		They haven't taken us over.
		They haven't made us their meal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was exaggerating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it may be, as I said earlier, that Earth represents a rather prime hunk of real estate, but they really can't interfere, nor do they necessarily need to feel a need to interfere because we're constantly on the verge of destroying ourselves and leaving the real estate available.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and you're saying that they're just watching and waiting for that moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm saying that's a possibility.
		I'm saying that's got to be considered along with the warm, fuzzy, here we are.
		Now you're going to be a planet of one.
		You will war no more.
		Here's some wonderful technology for you.
		We are your friends.
		Prepare to join the Galactic Empire.
		That's one possibility, but there's another possibility, the one I describe.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael C. Luckman.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
		Going once.
		Yes.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Proceed, sir.
unidentified		Pleasant good morning from Oklahoma.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And a pleasant good morning to you.
unidentified		Free apology if I should sneeze, cough, or sniff.
unidentified		I'm fighting a little head cold right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sorry to hear.
unidentified		I missed a lot of the show because of work, but something Michael said about the tether experiment with the shuttle brought something back to memory.
unidentified		Michael, are you familiar with the NOSS satellites?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Why don't you continue beyond that because I've heard of it, yes.
unidentified		Well, what they are is they're a set of triplet satellites.
		There's nine sets of them that the Navy's flying, and they're the Naval Ocean Surveillance System.
		Now, some people think they're tethered, and some people think they use low-thrust engines.
		The point I'm getting to here is, if they are tethered, how come nothing's going wrong with them?
		You know, if they're just tethered to hold them together and not tethered for an experiment to see if they can generate power.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I mean, how come the aliens aren't coming around, circulating around where they're?
unidentified		Well, I mean, you had said that there is a possibility that someone didn't want us to learn something.
		And I thought, well, you know, that could be so, because if these nine sets of tethered satellites have been flying since 1990 and nothing's messed With them, the tethers aren't used for any type of experimentation that people know of if they are tethered.
		They're just simply used to hold them in formation.
		And I've actually seen some of these flying, and they hold pretty good formation.
		That was one thing.
		Another thing I wanted to ask you was: I was looking back through one of my old issues of Astronomy Magazine, and I ran across a NASA photo from Apollo 15 panoramic camera of the moon, and on the Aristarchus Plateau is a very anomalous feature that has a striking resemblance to the Sidonia face.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		And it's camera frame 343 from the Apollo 15 panoramic camera.
		And I'm looking at it right now, and it's in the April 1995 issue of Astronomy Magazine.
		And I wondered if you'd have ever seen that or had anyone had ever mentioned it to you before.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		No, I have not seen it.
		I haven't heard about it.
		I'm definitely interested in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why don't you fire a copy of that off to me, Culler?
unidentified		Okay, what I can do is maybe I can, ooh, fax doesn't come too true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, fax is bad.
unidentified		You're not accepting snail mail either, are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not at the moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if you can get somebody with a scanner, get it scanned and just fire it over at the same time.
unidentified		Okay, I'll see what I can do.
unidentified		And something else I want to get you, when you start accepting snail mail, I've got some stuff from NASA that I'd like to send you straight from the Vomit Comet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll be announcing it right here on the air.
		All right, thank you very much, and take care.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Luckman.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm sorry, West of the Rockies.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		Yes.
		When I was a geology student, I once was trying to understand plate tectonics, so I made a clay model of the Earth without the water.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		What I came up with was what looked like a fractured sphere with a large part of it missing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		What occurred to me is that maybe Mars was once part of Earth removed by some type of cosmic collision.
unidentified		And perhaps what we're seeing on Mars are remnants of the same civilization that built our pyramids.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, that Mars and Earth were once one.
unidentified		The mass of the area missing on Earth, if you account for continental drift and other things, appears to be about one-third of the mass of the Earth, which is about the size of Mars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a new one on me, but that's very, very interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that would account for the artifacts keeping other things in place, wouldn't it?
unidentified		It might.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a totally new one on me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's see, about a third the mass, you say, which is about the mass of Mars that's missing from Earth.
unidentified		And perhaps what we see on Mars is part of that same civilization on Earth that built our pyramids here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not bad.
		Not bad.
		I think it would have to go back a lot further than that.
		But still, not bad, sir.
		Not bad at all.
		All right, thank you.
		Michael C. Luckman is up for you next on the first time.
		Call our line.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yeah.
		Since we've put a dune buggy up there on the moon, how come we haven't built a split level of the carport to park that fucker in?
		It seems like the American thing to do, Viny.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Put a garage up there.
unidentified		Gone back and gotten on the moon also.
		Do you think contrails have anything to do with Star Wars in terms of electromagnetic fields with metallic particles in the atmosphere acting as a possible plasma attractor?
		I'll take my answer off there.
		Thanks.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		That's a lot to try and plow through here.
		But, you know, the contrail controversy is worth asking you about.
		Are you following that at all?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have been.
unidentified		You have any opinions on it?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, seeing that it would appear that it's related to the environmental problems and trying to stave off some of those environmental problems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I should have said really chemtrails.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what everybody calls them.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can tell you that New York, I mean, I have the skies have been absolutely covered at times with what looks like giant chalk markings of chemtrails all over the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Something's going on.
		Something's going on.
		And I do agree it's an effort to change something.
		I think there's something going on with chemtrails, and I think there's something going on with HAARP.
		And I'm not sure which one is working on the weather and which one might be working on perhaps some effort to cool the planet or something like that.
		I have no idea.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		But it's certainly a massive program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		The Chemtrails program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you do believe there really is something there, whatever it is.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		There's no question.
		I'll tell you, I was standing, I live in the village of Manhattan, and I was standing on the street, and a friend of mine who happens to listen to your show regularly was telling me about it when they first started appear.
		And he said, look up, describe the, you know, showed me this cloud.
		He says, that's not a real cloud that was formed.
		I said, come on, you've got to be kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's not normal.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		And then all of a sudden, one of these white, very well-flying white planes.
unidentified		Hold on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll get the rest of the story after the bottom of the ass.
unidentified		You're listening to Arc Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from February 13th, 2002.
		Oh, it's true.
		Oh, I love you.
		You surely had to say exactly what you say in that very special way.
		Oh, it's true.
		You fell for me too Then when I tried it I could see
		You don't laugh'Cause you know me I'm in you You're in me I'm in you You're in me'Cause you gave me the love
		Love that I never had Yes, you gave me the love Love that I never had You and I Don't pretend We make love I can't feel Anymore
		That I'm singing Well I'm in you You're in me I'm in you I'm in you You're in me'Cause you gave me the love Love that
		I never had You gave me the love Love that I never had You gave me the love Love that I never had You gave me the love Love that I never had You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from February 13th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		Michael C. Luckman is here.
		We're talking about the second face, the new face on Mars.
		Or should I say, faces, plural?
		There are two of them there.
		It is astounding when you can finally make it into his website.
		We've got a link up on ours.
		Good luck.
		Take a look for yourself.
		Tell me what you think.
		It is absolutely astounding.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		Now, we take you back to the night of February 13th, 2002, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
		Art Bell's Somewhere in Time Well, all right, Michael, how are you holding up there a little before five in the morning on the air?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doing all right, huh?
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here we go.
		First time caller line.
		You're on the air with Michael C. Luckman.
unidentified		Hi.
		Oh, hi.
		This is Julie from Philadelphia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I find this absolutely fascinating.
		And I just wondered, could Michael tell us how we could get involved with the Cosmic Number?
		What is it?
		CosmicMajority?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		CosmicMajority.com.
		Yeah, well, once we can get our website back out, apparently everyone's been trying to get through.
		And if you would go to cosmicmajority.com or you could send us an email at Nebula NEB, I'm sorry, NEBULA2002 at AOL.com, and we'll be happy to give you membership information.
unidentified		Well, that would be great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		We're a hotbed of UFO interest in Philadelphia, I can tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, actually, a lot of UFO interest, originally in the West and the Southwest, interestingly, has moved a lot of reports in the Midwest and the East Coast now in the last, I don't know, two years maybe.
		Suddenly, it's moved east.
		Really weird.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Michael C. Luckman.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, Mr. Bill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Morning, sir.
unidentified		And good morning, Michael.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I don't know if you've touched on this at all tonight.
		I only catched the last two hours of the show where I am.
		My name is Dave.
		I'm originally from Mars, and I listen to you guys on the radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're originally from where?
unidentified		From Mars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so you think your ancestors.
unidentified		Throughout the last couple of years of listening to you and Mike Siegel, unfortunately, before, but yeah, I'm pretty much sure of it.
		I see.
		The black star that's just outside Pluto that'll pass through Earth's orbit in 2003, I believe it is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, some say, yes.
unidentified		What type of effect, what's the time frame of that?
		Does it happen every 3,500, 5,000, 11,000 years?
		What type of effect will that have on our gravity, or will it cause a pole shift indefinitely?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's ask about that.
		There are many who feel that Mr. Sitchin's planet or the star associated with it is indeed on the way.
		The rumors are everywhere.
		I assume you've heard them, Michael.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I have heard them.
		I have heard them.
		Two scientists recently just made some kind of a statement in regard to it.
		What effect will it have?
		Well, I guess it remains to be seen.
		Yeah, I mean, it could be catastrophic theoretically.
		If we, you know, go by as the planet comes closer, the gravitational pole could cause all kinds of different problems.
		I'm not so sure about an actual pole shift, which would be the ultimate worst thing that could happen.
		But we'll just have to see.
unidentified		Pole shift would be really bad.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Really bad.
unidentified		Very bad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael C. Luckman.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello.
		Hello, Bob.
		I want to say, who are you, mister?
		Who are you?
		An atheistic, drug-abusing, hippie new ager to come and tell us to usurp 6,000 years of truth and right from the Bible?
		Call us Bible thumpers.
		Listen to this.
		I love the Bible.
		I suck the Bible.
		I'm meant by the Bible.
		And if you want to know about hell, you're telling me about hell.
		Hell is not a Star Trek black hole.
		Hell is the pit of boiling sewage, where your skin is pulled from your face, and you are dumped into the boiling sewage.
		And spiders crawl over your bodies, and snakes in every separate corpus of your body will cover you.
		And you want more?
		You want more?
		That is hell.
		You know nothing of hell.
		More, JC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Give us more.
		I wanted to know what your health is.
		Boiling pits of sewage.
		I remember that.
unidentified		You are going to lie, Mr. Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
		Stop, stop, stop.
		That wasn't the real JC.
		That was a tape of JC.
		But that, on the other hand, I let go because that is JC and that you were hearing, no matter who was playing him to us, and that is that man's opinion of what we do here and where it's going to lead.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he is, albeit a rather extreme example, an example of the fanatical right, religious right.
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So boiling pits of sewage await.
		West of the Rockies, you're on there with Michael C. Luckman.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, guys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I was wondering about if there's any way we might be able to tell the aid sometime because this the mist of Atlanta.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, whoever he was, we just lost him.
		Sorry about that.
		His phone just disconnected.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's number one.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now proceed and tell us where you are.
unidentified		North Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, far away.
unidentified		Okay, am I on the air?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You better be, or we're in trouble.
unidentified		Okay, well, I didn't know if I'm talking to anybody yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, that's the, well, you're talking to me, and I'm the only one here, and so you have to be on the air.
unidentified		Is Michael there?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm here.
unidentified		Okay, you're there, too.
		Okay, this is the first time caller, so I can't tell.
		Yes, this is Rachel from North Carolina.
		Actually, I was able to get through after you mentioned the story about the white plane, a low-flying white plane.
		Yes, yes.
		Yeah, maybe you can talk about that later.
		I'd like to hear about that.
		I had that happen here.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, this plane came out, suddenly shot out of the cloud as we were talking about the cloud, whether it was a real or fake cloud, and it went back in and actually filled in the missing area, the open area in the cloud.
unidentified		Did it have any markings on it?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		It didn't have any markings on it.
unidentified		Yeah, pure white, right?
		Yes.
		Oh, I saw one of those too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody's seeing them.
unidentified		Oh, really?
		Oh, well, great.
		Well, I'm glad to hear that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, obviously something is going on.
		The question is, what is going on?
		We don't know.
		Is this an attempt to mitigate some sort of warming of the planet?
		Oh, is it a change?
		That's my guess.
		Change the weather.
		I guess ultimately it would do that as well.
		But, you know, everybody's sort of, who knows what it is.
		We just know something's going on.
		A wildcard line, you're on the air with Michael C. Luckman.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
		Going once, going twice.
		Vaughn.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael C. Luckman.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yes, sir.
		If you assume that 10 billion years ago that people want to live in interstellar space, about 10 billion per galaxy, there must be an awful lot of dark matter out there, and these UFOs are their reconnaissance missions.
		And they more likely have charts that show us as still being aboriginal savages that eat one another.
		They'd be afraid to land in certain places.
		And they're more likely replenishing some of the things they can't continuously recycle, like oxygen from our atmosphere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That may well be.
		I read a very interesting article the other day about a scientist are saying now that one of the first space probes we sent out, which is now beginning to get into really deep space outside the galaxy, is some mysterious unknown force is actually slowing it down significantly.
		I mean, you know, sort of like the satellite, or the space probe, I guess it's more accurately called, is running into some kind of slow but sure barrier out there.
		So there's a lot of strange things that we don't know about.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael C. Luckman.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, interesting show tonight.
		Thank you.
		Debbie in Montana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Debbie.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I was wondering if your guest would be open to the possibility that those monuments and everything are put there, not by us or by aliens, but by immortals.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		By immortals?
unidentified		By immortal beings, like angels.
unidentified		The Bible theme is continuing tonight.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, anything's possible.
		It depends how you want to define angels or extraterrestrials.
		I mean, some people put them in the same category.
		Some people put them in different categories.
		Supernatural or supernatural beings, which angels have been described as being, would fit into that category.
		But I myself don't, you know, I think more in terms of extraterrestrial than an angel.
unidentified		I see.
		There's a website, watcher.cc, that talks about Van Flander and his exploded planet theory.
		And they say that those monuments are angelic as opposed to aliens.
		So I just wanted to throw that out there.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		So you see, Michael, as you listen to the variety of callers that we packed into an hour here, not even an hour yet, a fairly representative portion of them have obviously been of the religious right.
		Now, that's why I contend that Dr. Van Flandren is absolutely right.
		And if we come back with evidence, irrefutable evidence, that would suggest things that would upset the status quo, that we are very, very, very unlikely to hear about it right away.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, that may be.
		That may be.
		But I think what we will hear about it, and I think that, you know, while it might be very upsetting to some people, the fact of the matter is that a lot of people, like you and I, hopefully, would welcome this and would be very excited about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I welcome the truth, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whatever it is.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller online, you're on the air with Michael C. Luckman.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		Hello?
		Hello.
		Yeah, I just want to address something.
		The two of you indirectly, directly, I would say, called that guy a crackpot and a nut that said he was from Mars because you never addressed it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, actually we didn't.
		I said you mean in the sense that you are a relative of, or you Are a relative of Martians, which is the way we began the program.
		I actually, as one of the first things I said, I think, to Michael, do you mean that we are descended from Martians?
		He said, yes.
		He said yes.
		So, no.
unidentified		That particular guy said he was from Mars.
unidentified		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But he admitted, sir, that it was in that sense that he said that.
unidentified		I didn't catch that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you missed that.
unidentified		Good show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you.
		Take care.
		Wild Cardaline, you're on the air with Michael C. Luckman.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello?
		Hey, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		How you doing, buddy?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Myrtle Beach.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		South Carolina?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Yeah, I got a question for Michael.
		Yes.
		You were talking about the pyramids and that new face you found near it?
		Yes.
		You said it was twice as tall as the trade centers?
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, what I said was that there are pyramids.
		Now, this is separate from the old face and the new face.
		There's another area entirely called Elysium.
		And that area has pyramids that are twice as tall.
		I would say at least five or six pyramids shown in one photo, that are twice as tall as the height of what the World Trade Center used to be.
unidentified		Well, that's amazing because the big pyramid in Giza was about 44 stories, wasn't it?
		I believe it is.
		Don't worry about that.
		The bottom of it covers about 16 acres.
		So if you go on the same degrees, it's about 42 degrees, I believe it is.
		The bottom of the pyramid that you're talking about on Mars would be somewhere around 80 acres.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		So they had to be a pretty good bit of distance apart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it'd be interesting to see when Dr. Van Flandren begins looking at the second phase, which you say he's already seen, and then begins to do some of the mathematical calculations comparing the two, you know, the Sidonia image and what you have found.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or actually, you gave credit to somebody else at the beginning.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's a guy by the name, there's an astronomer by the name of Greg Orme, R-M-A-Y, who found this.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I believe he's an amateur astronomer, and he was the guy who actually made the discovery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael C. Luckman.
		Good morning.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I was wondering if he thought there was any connection between Cirrus, the star, and the Mars between the two species breeding.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I'm familiar somewhat with the Cirrus mystery, the book, and the Dogon tribe and stuff, but I just have no idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Too much of a connection to try to make right now, anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael C. Luckman.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		This is Arnie calling from Lake Forest, California, listening to you on KFI out of Los Angeles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, of course.
unidentified		Yes.
		I just wanted to say, and I'd like to hear what your guest has to say about this.
		I am a Christian, and I have an interesting theory from a Christian's perspective that if there was an ancient civilization on Mars, I have a theory to why it no longer exists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would that be?
unidentified		Well, if you're familiar with the genealogy in the Bible of Genesis about Noah and the flood, there's a possibility that God could have created two human races, one on Earth and one on Mars.
		And what happened was that later on, man fell into sin and became unfaithful to God.
		And the difference between Mars and Earth is that on Earth, only eight people were still faithful to God, and that was Noah and his family.
		But on Mars, and this is the difference, there was nobody left who was faithful to God, so God wiped them out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, sir, your theory is as good as anybody else's.
		Thank you very much.
		That's as good a theory as anybody's right now.
		The fact of the matter is, we don't know.
		We just have these pictures, and they do demand some sort of explanation.
		There's no question about it.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Michael C. Luckman.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, Art from the Low Desert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I'm calling from Palm Springs, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And I'd like to ask Michael a question regarding the faces on Mars and the talk that we've had about time travel in the past.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And if there's a distinct possibility that there were beings that had a civilization on Mars that was way advanced from Mars and decided that they had to leave their particular planet for whatever reason.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the reason is pretty obvious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Their atmosphere more or less evaporated for one reason or another, probably a collision of some sort.
unidentified		And so their form of breathing was going away.
unidentified		And so they had to adapt, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Something else.
unidentified		So it's a very logical sense that they would be coming to our planet if they felt that they could reproduce and continue on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a theory.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		It's a theory.
unidentified		Do you believe that we have been traveled by time travelers?
unidentified		That we have been visited by time travelers?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
unidentified		Yeah, I don't know.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		I have an open mind on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think it's likely.
unidentified		Art, how do you feel?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just told you.
		I think it's likely.
		If time travel is ever going to be a reality, and I believe that it will be, in fact, we're getting closer and closer with quantum entanglement and quantum computers and all the rest of it.
		If it's ever going to happen, and I believe it's likely that someday it will, and it is possible, then they would either be here now or have flitted through from time to time.
		So it's logical to me.
unidentified		Does that answer your question?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Caller?
		I guess he's not there.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello?
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, real quick question, because we're almost out of time.
unidentified		Okay, keeping with the Christian team, what about the possibility that Mars could have been the Garden of Eden?
unidentified		And when animals were cast out, they were cast down here to Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, it's certainly a theory.
		Michael, we're out of time.
		I'm so sorry.
		Again, I'm going to say, though, if you look back on this hour at the calls that have come in, I would say, go back and say, hey, Tom, you know, I was on with Art Bell, and you should have heard the last hour, Tom.
		You might be right.
		I want to thank you for being here.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, Orton.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have a good night.
michael luckman ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		That's Michael Luckman.
		He's got the second phase on Mars.
		Actually, second, or no, actually third and fourth phases.
		Depending on how you're counting.
		That'll be about it for tonight from the high desert.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Tata.
unidentified		With a digger, digger, down about an hour ago.

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