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Feb. 11, 2002 - Art Bell

02:35:01

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Janis Amatuzio - The Compassionate Coroner - Death And Hereafter

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	...news.
	It had been in restricted air space.
	It was pretty cool to see.
	Well, so they're not taking any chances up in Salt Lake, of course.
	And it would be a likely target, wouldn't it?
	Now, gee, we've got this big warning.
	And we've got the Olympics going on.
	Let me see.
	Big warning.
	Olympics.
	Big warning.
	Olympics.
	Could there be a connection?
	Well, of course, they're not going to say anything about it, but I'm sure they're thinking there could be.
	Check this out.
	Acme, this is from Newsmax, Acme Rent-A-Car.
	It really is an Acme Rent-A-Car.
	I thought it was just some cartoons.
	A Connecticut-based car rental company has been ordered by state officials there to stop tracking its customers by satellite.
	Acme installed GPS on all of its rental cars in an effort to prevent speeding.
	Acme began tracking customers with a GPS unit in 2000.
	Any customer who exceeded 79 miles per hour for at least two minutes was then fined $150.
	I didn't even know they were doing... I had no idea they were doing that.
	I mean, I know about... What is it?
	LoJack, I think.
	A system that can locate a stolen car.
	But I had no idea they were actually monitoring the speed of people who rent cars.
	Gee, that's a new one.
	All right, a break and we'll be right back.
	I've got quite a bit more here.
	There's so much interesting stuff going on in the world.
	How's your back?
	My back is absolutely, well, you know about my back, right?
	It's a disaster area and the thing that will help you if you have a bad back.
	is an air mattress.
	I wonder how many of you know about air mattresses.
	Really high quality air mattresses.
	Well, Select Comfort, a company that's advertised here before, makes a really, really high quality air mattress.
	The fact of the matter is, 80% of all of you out there at some point in your lives will experience back pain, and it's horrible.
	There probably isn't anything worse.
	And there'll be a lot of contention about that, but I tell you, when your back is out, well, Select Comfort provides a bed that is so good, so high tech, that either side of the bed can be set precisely in a way to cause you to have the best night's sleep in your whole life.
	So if you have trouble sleeping, and I'm the king of that category too, this bed is what you want.
	Not only that, but it's so high tech, That when you find the precise setting that is right for you, and that's so, I can't even begin to stress how important that is, a number comes up.
	And that's the memory.
	In other words, it remembers exactly the way you like your bed.
	So if you ever change it, you just put the number back and your exact setting comes back.
	You have a setting for your side, your partner has a setting for her side, his or her side, depending on who I'm speaking with right now, I guess.
	And everybody wins.
	It's an incredible bed.
	Absolutely an incredible bed.
	So, if you've got a bed back, if you're having trouble sleeping, then I guarantee, I guarantee this is the answer for you.
	The Sleep Number Bed by Select Comfort uses adjustable air chambers that will let you set up each side of the bed exactly the way you want it.
	And then this smart bed remembers the way you wanted it.
	That's so cool.
	Call them at one.
	800-985-7100.
	That's one.
	800-985-7100.
	You know what they'll do?
	They will send you a free video and a brochure.
	It's much easier to see what I'm talking about than it is for me to tell you about it.
	So they offer this free video and a brochure.
	You can read about it and you can slam a video into the VCR.
	And you can decide if it's for you, and if you've got a bad back, it's for you.
	Trust me.
	Their number again is 1-800-985-7100.
	Now, if you would like to begin to virtually get younger as you sleep on that nice bed, then listen to me very carefully, because there is something new in the world.
	There's HGH.
	Human Growth Hormone.
	And, at first, in the first 10 weeks, you will experience the feeling of being 10 years younger than you are today.
	Now, then, as time goes on, though, the physical changes begin.
	The wrinkles that were deepening begin to not be so deep, and you haven't put any cream on at all.
	All you do is take this orally.
	It's not like the shot in the stomach that the other HGH is.
	This, you take orally.
	And you, I guarantee, you will begin to see physical differences in yourself.
	Aside from the skin, your immune system is going to get stronger.
	Your vital organs, which you cannot see, will begin to regenerate.
	You'll have more energy.
	You'll notice your vision is getting better, that's right, your vision getting better, your memory improving, mood elevation stronger, bones, all the things that we associate with youth.
	Human growth hormone causes your own body to manufacture more of your own HGH.
	So, it's safe and it works.
	If you want to try it, it's about $33 a month from Great American Products.
	It's called HGH.
	Ultimate HGH.
	Call them and get some on the way at 1-800-557-4627.
	1-800-557-4627. That's 1-800-557-4627.
	Well, well, well, well.
	Check this out.
	Apparently our schools here are not the only ones having problems.
	Mold problems all across the country, and now rash problems across the country as well.
	I read you a story last week, and now a mystery rash that seems to have infected up to 40 students, mostly girls, at Abraham Lincoln Elementary School in Medford, Oregon might, they think, be related to a viral infection known as slap-cheek disease.
	Slap cheek disease.
	We want to say it's not serious at Medford Dermatologist David Trask.
	It's our opinion that this could very well be viral.
	At first, six dermatologists and one general practitioner thought the children were suffering from some sort of eczema.
	But Trask said, I quote, I think these kids have more than just eczema.
	So something he wanted to assuage the parents' fears and said it could That it could be something, probably is not something, certainly not anthrax, he said.
	And so, these children have something, I'm seeing more and more every day, I get more and more of these stories of a mysterious this, a mysterious that.
	Rashes, things, odd diseases that we haven't seen before.
	Things that the scientists just can't figure out.
	More and more and more of that sort of thing.
	Here's something that we talked about with a couple of guests that verifies what they were saying.
	You may recall that Richard C. Hoagland mentioned that one of our satellites out there, one of our deep space probes, was actually being slowed by some mysterious force.
	Now listen to this article.
	Mysterious force holds back NASA probe in deep space.
	A space probe launched 30 years ago has come under the influence of a force That has baffled scientists and could rewrite the laws of physics.
	Researchers say Pioneer 10, which took the first close-up pictures of Jupiter before leaving our solar system in 83, is being pulled back to the Sun by some unknown force.
	The effect shows no sign of getting weaker as the spacecraft travels deeper into space.
	Scientists are considering the possibility that the probe Has revealed a new force of nature.
	A new force of nature.
	So, as we travel into deep space, something begins pulling us back.
	Oh my, what could that be?
	If the effect is real, according to Dr. Lange, it will have a very big impact on cosmology and spacecraft navigation.
	I wonder if that means that we can't leave.
	I mean, really leave.
	That there is some force of nature that we so don't understand that it would actually disallow us to go to deep space, to travel to some other star, perhaps.
	That's incredible!
	And so is this.
	Frances Foster was pronounced dead at 2.20 p.m.
	But three hours later, she came back to life.
	You heard me.
	Three hours later, she came back to life.
	You gotta hear this.
	And last night, as the Brooklyn woman remained in critical condition at New York Methodist Hospital, two emergency medical techs were placed on modified duty while officials investigate whether they witnessed a miracle?
	I made a mistake.
	The EMTs, one of whom has 16 years experience on the job, pronounced the 77-year-old woman dead in her apartment Saturday afternoon.
	A source said the fact that she was extremely cold to the touch and that her 7th floor apartment had a strong odor made it seem rather unlikely she could be alive.
	When a coroner from a medical examiner's office, like my guest tonight, arrived at 535, however, He found Foster to have a faint pulse.
	They rushed her to Methodist Emergency Room.
	He came in, lifted the body, and it apparently caused a spontaneous heartbeat.
	Foster's next-door neighbor reported her missing Saturday afternoon, police said.
	She hadn't been seen in a while, police said.
	It was not clear yesterday how long it had been since she had left her apartment.
	Police arrived.
	They found the woman's body, called an ambulance.
	EMTs arrived less than two minutes later and pronounced her dead.
	Source said police at the scene, also believing she was dead, called for a supervisor.
	Mike Prendergast, a fire department spokesperson, said that two EMTs will be placed on modified duty pending an internal review by the state health department.
	They will not be permitted to treat patients, he said, but what may have happened there, as they admitted earlier in the article, is a miracle.
	It could have been a miracle.
	I mean, if the body has... We'll ask them.
	We're going to have on tonight.
	But if there's a bad smell coming from the body and it's dead cold, most of us would make... I'll tell you.
	I've got a lot to say on this subject.
	I'm doing a lot of thinking about it lately.
	Listen to this.
	Men may be redundant.
	The article says, men redundant?
	Now we don't need women either.
	Doctors are developing artificial wombs in which embryos can grow outside a woman's body.
	The work has been hailed as a breakthrough in treating the childless.
	Here we go.
	Scientists have created prototypes made out of cells extracted from women's bodies.
	Embryos successfully attach themselves to the walls of these laboratory wombs and began to grow!
	However, the experiments had to be terminated after a few days to comply with the in vitro fertilization regulations, IVF regulations.
	Yikes!
	According to Dr. Ching Liu of the Cornell University Center for Reproductive Medicine, we hope to create complete artificial wombs using these techniques.
	Women with damaged uteruses and wombs will be able to have babies.
	Now, for the first time, the pace of progress in the field has startled experts.
	Artificial wombs could end many women's childbirth problems.
	They also, of course, raise major ethical headaches.
	It's going to be debated at a major international conference titled The End of Natural Motherhood?
	That'll be in Oklahoma next week.
	The organizer of that said there are going to be real problems.
	Some feminists even say artificial wombs mean men could eliminate women from the planet and still perpetuate our species.
	That's a bit alarmist.
	Nevertheless, this subject Raises strong feelings.
	It raises strong feelings in me, too.
	First, it was the whole thing about artificial insemination and semen, and pretty soon there'd be feminists out there who don't need men.
	Remember all that?
	Remember the big brouhaha over all that?
	Well, now, you might not need women either.
	In an artificial womb.
	It's kind of like being Born in a test tube, really, isn't it?
	How far are we from the year 2525, when your arms, if I recall, hang limp at your side?
	Something about the child you choose being plucked from the bottom of a long black tube.
	I have to remind myself of those words.
	But is that what they're talking about here?
	Don't need many women anymore.
	I don't need women anymore.
	Don't need parents anymore.
	You just need a place.
	These really are wild times.
	Place your order now.
	Would that be blonde?
	Oh, blue eyes?
	Okay.
	Oh, don't frown, sorry.
	We'll be right back.
	The radio station that sets the standard for news talk in Chicago.
	News Talk 89 WLS.
	I'm Tom Hubert with this WLS news update.
	Brought to you by InsureOne.
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	WLS traffic.
	Tap on Stevenson, the exit at the Dan Ryan block of Road to Rattel 1 this morning.
	Your legs got nothing to do, some machine's doing that for you.
	In the year sixty-five, sixty-five, ain't gonna need no husband, husband, no wife.
	That's how it went.
	Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First line callers may reach Art Bell at 1-775-7722.
	east of the Rocky, 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-7722.
	And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator
	and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from Buck Kingdom of Nye.
	Boy, I've missed it by about 4,000 years or so, huh?
	Sounds like now, doesn't it?
	I knew the words were something like that.
	You've known Dan Aykroyd since Saturday Night Live.
	The Blues Brothers and the House of Blues.
	But did you know he's got a deep interest in UFOs?
	You can read about Dan in the February issue of the After Dark Newsletter.
	You'll find out about his interest in the NASA UFO cover-up.
	And yes, there is evidence that UFO activity has been seen at NASA.
	Also, read about the future of nanotechnology.
	Real-life stories of levitation.
	Find out who tried to levitate the Pentagon.
	Yes, the Pentagon.
	It's all in the February issue of the After Dark Newsletter.
	If you haven't subscribed yet, it's a good time to get on board.
	Call right now.
	1-888-727-5505 and you'll get two free issues, 14 for the price of 12.
	That number again, 1-888-727-5505 or subscribe online at www.artbell.com.
	for the price of 12. That number again 1-888-727-5505 or subscribe online at
	artbell.com. Hit the library link to the secure server to order the one and only
	After Dark newsletter.
	Do you know if you qualify for the earned income tax credit?
	Well, if you have kids, you should find out.
	Because it's for people who earn around $32,000 or less, have kids, and meet from 1-800-615-3133.
	That's 1-800-615-3133.
	Or go to www.getmasked.com.
	Alright, back into the night we go, or should I say, into the night we go.
	Open lives between now and the top of the hour, when we're going to have the speaker for the dead.
	I wonder if she'll object to that term.
	That's what coroners really are.
	That's what forensic people really are.
	They speak for the dead because the dead cannot, or can no longer, or at least, let me modify that, up until fairly recently, weren't supposed to speak for themselves.
	Dr. Janice Amatuzio.
	For now, two open lines, and the wildcard line is on the air.
	Hi, you're on the air.
	Good morning, Mr. Bell.
	Good morning.
	This is Brandy in East Tennessee again.
	Brandy, alright.
	Brandy.
	First of all, before I get to what I actually called for, I want to throw in this real quick.
	I heard on Dennis Miller Live, he had a comment about the Enron mess.
	Yes.
	And he wanted to know why none of the execs had the coconuts to lie under of.
	Well, everybody's had lots of practice watching previous scandals take place, and so they all know how it's done now.
	Right.
	You know, you cannot recall, I cannot recall, that's The key phrase there, I can't recall, you're not exactly in trouble or out of trouble if you say I can't recall.
	I'm sure you are, but it smells like a lie.
	It does.
	Anyway, that article you were talking about last week about the human evolution.
	Oh, is evolution finally over is what the article, it was in the London Observer.
	Right.
	Yes.
	And I gave some thought to that, and I think that Evolution, human evolution itself has not stopped, but maybe the factors that influence it have changed.
	And it's not, it's not all about... Well, okay then, okay then.
	Let's go with that for a second.
	If the factors that influence evolution have changed, then in what way do you see us evolving?
	Well, here's where, here's, this is juicy, you're going to love this.
	Here's what I think.
	What may happen five or ten generations from now, in the western world, We may have, like, two classes of humans.
	We'll have smart, beautiful people and stupid, ugly people.
	Oh, well, they'd be the poor ones then, right?
	The stupid, ugly people would be the poor ones.
	Right, they'd be the lower class.
	But can you see that happening?
	Five or ten generations down the road?
	Yes, I can.
	I mean, that goes with the other story that I had tonight as well.
	In other words, they don't need men, they don't need women.
	They just need, like, This artificial womb they've got.
	The only reason that this didn't continue and become a child was because by law they were required to stop it.
	But oh my God, look where we're headed.
	Right.
	It's awfully scary, isn't it?
	Aye yi yi.
	Well, I guess change always is.
	But you know, I'm with you.
	It's kind of scary.
	I can see that.
	That popped into my head almost immediately.
	How old are you?
	I'm 27.
	27.
	Well, I'm a good bit older than you are, and it scares me, and normally I would say it's probably just my age showing, but... No.
	No, huh?
	No.
	All right, appreciate the call.
	Thank you.
	Thanks, Randy.
	There's enough to scare anybody, huh?
	Where we're headed, that is.
	Yes, I find the argument compelling.
	I don't know that I buy it totally, but the question is, is human evolution finally over?
	And the scientist bases his theory On the fact that in the West, we have eliminated the process of natural selection.
	Natural selection, of course, being basically the strong survive, the weak do not.
	And so the genome is enriched, and we continue to change and become stronger.
	Now, of course, we're very compassionate here in the West, and we do.
	We save people.
	We keep people alive who would normally never, never, never be able to continue to live.
	Without heroic medical techniques that we have now.
	And so you could make that case.
	Now, it could be all wrong, and this young lady could be exactly right, that the factors influencing evolution have changed.
	Therefore, we will become something else.
	Simply something else.
	Maybe... Maybe we'll kind of merge with computers somehow.
	We're slowly doing that now, anyway.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, sir.
	Friday evening, a lady called you from Alaska.
	This is Harvey from Memphis, Tennessee, by the way.
	Yes, Harvey.
	She called and asked about the earthquakes.
	Oh, yes.
	And you couldn't remember where you had heard that from.
	Actually, I had some fast blasts that told me there were two earthquakes there.
	Okay, well, it was Vincent Lord that made that prediction.
	Okay.
	The levitator.
	Right.
	Okay, he's the one that did that.
	Now the other thing, have you heard about the weird sounds that have been going on in Kokomo, Indiana?
	Yes, actually, not just Kokomo, over a much wider area.
	Is that right?
	That's what I'm hearing, yes.
	What have you heard?
	Well, the only thing, I heard this about ten days ago, and I've been trying to get back in with you because there hasn't been anything on our news or in our paper about it, but I heard it on Paul Harvey that they even asked the government to get involved And trying to help them locate the noise, and the government wouldn't get involved.
	Yeah, well, the government may be making the noise.
	Right.
	Well, the other thing real quick, the FBI in New York called our offices here the other day and informed us that there would be five Arabs coming down to buy driver's licenses from a member of the Tennessee Highway Patrol here in Memphis.
	Yes, sir.
	And they sat back and waited, and sure enough, The five came in and handed a lady a bunch of papers, no conversation or anything involved, and they sat back and waited until she filled out the driver's license and handed them to them.
	And then they arrested her and the five Arabs.
	Wow, now there's another story I haven't heard a thing about.
	Right, but it won't get in the paper.
	And I wondered to myself, how many times Each week is this happening across the country in different cities?
	I don't know, but I'll give the FBI this.
	Thank you very much.
	They weren't on it before.
	They sure seem to be now.
	And boy, it's like we're almost in lockdown in some ways.
	The Olympics, pretty much in lockdown.
	They certainly are coming off well.
	I've been watching a little bit of the Olympics.
	I particularly love Women's figure skating, or figure skating in general, actually both.
	Both sexes.
	You know, couples.
	I like figure skating.
	There's a very beautiful thing about well-executed figure skating.
	And so I enjoy that.
	But oh, it's a lockdown.
	And it's pretty much lockdown across the country for most things.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Larry.
	Yes, hi.
	Morgan in Boulder City.
	How you doing?
	Boulder City.
	Just over the hill.
	Yes, sir.
	Fine.
	All right.
	Good deal.
	Hey, you know, I'll stand by you tooth and nail if anyone wants to argue about What's the worst kind of pain?
	Amen is far the worst.
	Well, those who have not had it just simply don't understand.
	Those who do know that it ruins you as a human being.
	I mean, that's what it is to it.
	It just ruins you.
	You can't move, you can't talk.
	Everything hurts.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Oh, man.
	Anyway, I wanted to talk about that Doppler glitch over Salt Lake.
	Oh, yes.
	You know, I was wondering if the EMAT data was like something blasted from the sky.
	Is that how it was pushed?
	Are you referring to the radar return stuff?
	They're just, in other words, apparently the weather people there are seeing returns on their radar that don't match up with anything in the sky.
	And so, you know, that obviously indicates there's something in the air or the sky there that they don't understand.
	You can take it from there.
	Like you were saying before the bottom of the hour about, you know, the new terror alert from the Olympics.
	You know, maybe, I don't have a way to back this up, but maybe it's like a mass inoculation for a chemical weapon.
	I tell you, I tell you, anything is possible.
	After 9-11, I'm prepared to believe almost anything can happen.
	Thank you.
	And you know, our government would not be doing its job if it did not take extraordinary safety measures and precautions for us.
	That is, after all, what they are there for.
	To protect the constituents, that would be all of us.
	And so you can bet they're doing it.
	They appear to be doing a pretty good job of it, too.
	So far, so good.
	I mean, the FBI really seems to be full-time on this.
	And really, so far since 9-11, you've got to give them a pretty good rating overall.
	They get a pretty good rating.
	What we've done militarily, a pretty good rating.
	What they've done domestically, a pretty good rating.
	The tendency, of course, is to go a little bit overboard, and I'm sure there's going to be.
	I've already given you an instance or two of that, but generally, you've got to say that our government has been doing a fair to middling job here in protecting us since 9-11.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi.
	Thank you, Bill, from Ohio.
	Yes, sir.
	I saw an infomercial tonight, and I'm not going to name a company, but I thought you'd be the person to ask about this.
	Okay.
	They were talking about people who live very, very old and without wrinkles, and they mentioned certain areas of Japan, and they specifically mentioned Okinawa, and I remember... That's right.
	...that you'd lived there for a long time.
	A decade, sir.
	And they say that one thing in common that these people ingest is something called coral calcium from the sea.
	Is that anything that you ever knew about when you were in Okinawa?
	No, but I probably ate a lot of it.
	Okay.
	I'm not looking... I'll tell you a little story about how I ate when I was there that might amuse you, sir.
	Yeah, I spent a year, a decade, or better than a decade, on Okinawa, and first in the Air Force, at Kadena Air Force Base on Okinawa, and then following that, working for the only commercial English-speaking broadcast station in the Far East, KSBK.
	In fact, I got an email from somebody who Who had some tapes from KSBK on Okinawa, and I wrote back to them and asked with me on it And I wrote back and asked and begged they sent me copies, and I hope I get them if I do I'll play them for you.
	It's remarkable stuff.
	Anyway, Okinawa was a kind of an interesting place and I lived when I went back in Naha, which is the main city capital city of was of Okinawa and I Now at prefecture, actually.
	The island is a prefecture of Japan.
	But it wasn't then.
	At any rate, I lived as a civilian, you know, once I came back and I was no longer associated with the Air Force.
	I liked it so much I went back.
	Then I had to sort of live as a Japanese person, an Okinawan would live.
	And that means that I had to eat mostly what they would eat.
	And so the only way you could do it would be to go into a restaurant, and they had many of those.
	And all the menus were put on little strips of paper that would hang from above the counter.
	And, of course, not knowing how to read Kagami at that point, and certainly not Kanji.
	Still can't read Kanji.
	What I was forced to do would be I would go into the restaurant and I would just look at the pieces of paper, not knowing what any of them meant, and I would point at one of them.
	And they would bring me stuff.
	Now, Sometimes there was stuff in this bowl that, you know, like you wouldn't recognize.
	Floating stuff.
	Stuff like teeth.
	Not really teeth, I suppose, but you know, you never quite tell exactly what it was that was floating in there.
	And Sometimes you'd get rice, which was always easy and good, and sometimes you'd get other things that were indiscernible and so, but you ate them, you know what I mean?
	Instead of starving to death, you ate them, but that's the way you had to order, until I learned.
	And you know, I made friends, and I began to learn which strip to point to.
	West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello there.
	Going once, going twice, gone.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello, Art.
	Yes, sir.
	My name is Leonard.
	I am calling from Portland, Oregon.
	Hi, Leonard.
	On the mighty KEX 1190.
	Of course, and you're a first-time caller?
	Yes, I am.
	Okay.
	I am calling about a picture that I discovered in one of your old issues of After Dark.
	Yes, sir.
	This picture has got me doing flip-flops.
	What is it?
	First of all, I've been a science fiction fan for 40 years.
	I've seen every movie, all the pictures of alleged aliens, documentaries, all the alleged interviews.
	I've never seen anything that remotely looked real until I looked in this issue of After Dark.
	And?
	And there's no caption.
	There's no information on it, but it is.
	It is the real thing. I have never seen anything like this.
	What is the issue of After Dark?
	It is December 1996.
	That would be great.
	I am too, number 12.
	I am too, number 12.
	It's on page 5.
	All right.
	Dead center.
	I don't have that for immediate reference here, but I'm sure it's a photograph we probably
	had up on the website at one point.
	I'll try and get to that issue, find the photograph and take a look myself.
	That would be great.
	I'd love to hear any information that you or anybody else can throw out there.
	No, I'm sure that I talked about it at the time, sir, but 96, that's a long time ago.
	I'm going to have to, as the witnesses would say, refresh my memory.
	Yes.
	Looking at this, though, you know how someone can see something and they'll describe it to someone else, they'll describe it to somebody else, and down the line everything gets bigger?
	Yes.
	And the drawings of the gray's eyes are so big these days.
	But looking at this picture, I can see where, down the road, everything gets exaggerated.
	This looks like what would have to have been a grey from Roswell.
	It's just gotta be.
	You know, if there's not reality behind, thank you very much, if there's not reality behind these pictures and depictions we see of greys, then something curious to wonder about is where it all got started.
	Suppose the whole thing is nonsense.
	Suppose the whole thing about aliens is nonsense and all of the photographs and the pictures and the renditions and the, you know, people have told us about seeing these creatures, these aliens.
	Suppose all that is hogwash.
	Then where do you suppose all of this got started?
	And how did a gray become popularized?
	As a matter of fact, the... If you look at my webcam photo, I think it's on there.
	Let me see which one I took today.
	Tonight, um, you know, as you know, Rush Limbaugh had a statue of an alien, which blew me away when I went to his studio in New York at WABC.
	Absolutely blew me away.
	I went in there and I said, what is Rush doing with this?
	Why would Rush have this here?
	And I got some chuckles and, uh, my wife left, uh, I think a $20 bill in the alien's hand.
	And it was this gigantic five foot high wood carved alien.
	And what is Rush perhaps a year and
	Rush bequeathed it to me. He sent it to me. We're doing a thing down in Los Angeles
	you know a talk radio type thing and They presented this thing to me on stage and if you look at
	my webcam photo It's on at artbell.com on the right hand side past my
	smiling face on the right hand side you will see this gray alien
	Now you don't see all of it.
	There are arms and legs and all the rest of it.
	But you will see this alien with gigantic black eyes.
	Absolutely a grey.
	No question about it.
	Where do you suppose all of this got started?
	If there's not some germ of truth, was it some science fiction writer that began all this?
	And then did the stories build from there?
	Or is there just too much... I guess it's got to be called anecdotal evidence.
	To ignore that they really are out there.
	East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
	All right, hey, uh, Steve from the Virgin Islands calling you back.
	Hey, Steve!
	Hey, how's it going?
	All right.
	Hey, listen, I want to, uh, plant it in your ear again, Art, about this decision you've made to not do these experiments anymore.
	Well, it's not an absolute decision, Steve, but it's a decision to wait a little bit and, uh, and to think it over.
	I know, I know, but let me just say this real quick.
	All right.
	How about instead of, instead of thinking about Actually affecting something why don't we all as listeners decide on creating an event?
	Well alright because it's a Steve the same thing now you've got your radio on in the background I've got to go anyway because we're about to do a break at the top of the hour and then speaker for the dead but I don't see the difference whether we create an event or we attempt to manipulate the weather or we do any other mass mind experiment.
	I really feel like we're tampering with things that we don't even begin to understand.
	And I certainly don't.
	you That she had the longest bucket hair, the prettiest green
	eyes anywhere And the reasoning of his latest flame
	The last mile of tears he cried were the burning I wished him luck and then he said goodbye
	To reach Art Bell in the kingdom of Nigh, from Wust of the Rockies, Dial 1
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222, or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
	1-800-825-5033. First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222 or use the wildcard
	line at 1-775-727-1295. To reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T
	operator and have them dial 800-893-0903. This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on
	the Premier Radio Networks.
	Actually, I think speaker for the dead is just a fine term for what Dr. Janice Amatuzio does.
	Janice Amatuzio, MD, trained at the University of Minnesota and the Hennepin County Medical Center and the Medical Examiner's Office in Minneapolis, Minnesota before founding the Midwest Forensic Pathology PA Board, certified in atomic Atomic and atomic forensic and clinical pathology.
	She is a recognized authority in forensic medicine, has developed many courses in topics like death investigation, forensic nursing, and forensic medicine in mortuary science.
	Dr. Amatuzio serves as coroner And a regional resource for multiple counties in Minnesota and Wisconsin, Dr. Amatuzio, often called the Compassionate Coroner, is an exemplar for the compassionate practice of forensic medicine.
	As someone whose life's work has been speaking for the deceased, there you are, she has now also provided a voice for family and friends by allowing their stories to be heard in her new book called Forever Hours.
	coming up in just a moment.
	Well alright, here comes Dr. Janice Amatuzio.
	Doctor, welcome to the program.
	Thank you so much.
	It's great to have you.
	Where are you?
	I am in Anoka, Minnesota, just to the northwest of the Twin Cities area.
	All right.
	Is it really cold up there?
	Well, it's really windy, and it's kind of warm.
	It's about 33 degrees.
	We're lucky it's not below zero.
	Boy, that is warm in that area.
	Um, is that an unfair phrase to you?
	I said, uh, Speaker for the Dead.
	I once read a book, it was one of my favorite books, called Speaker for the Dead.
	It didn't relate exactly to forensic anything, but it just worked so well, it seems to me, for what you do.
	That's an excellent way to put it.
	We really do speak for the dead, and that's an old phrase.
	They say because the dead can no longer speak for themselves.
	But I think the importance is who we speak to.
	We have to speak to law enforcement, to physicians, to the county attorneys, but most of all to the families.
	Right.
	May one ask, in medicine, Doctor, how does one decide or become impassioned, you know, to take the road to what you do?
	Well, you know, you really just have to follow your heart.
	I had an opportunity to do a rotation at the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office with some of the great physicians, Dr. John Coe, Dr. Cal Bant, Dr. Kenny Osterberg,
	and I saw them solving puzzles and solving mysteries and it just got me so very
	excited. I knew that was my chosen work. Well, they run specials on TV and I can't
	remember which network, but autopsies and mysteries that are solved by people just like
	yourself in ways that are so incredibly astounding. I mean, it is amazing, I guess, what the body
	of a person can tell you about what happened to them.
	Is that right?
	Well, that's the truth.
	And, you know, when I started this, it was long before many of those wonderful shows that are on now were on.
	We still had Quincy back then, but it is fascinating because death investigation, in its essence, is an investigation of a life.
	And every life is different.
	And we get the opportunity to take an intimate look into a person's life.
	Not only do we examine the body, but we examine the death scene.
	We get to see how a person lived.
	We get to look at their clothing, what's in their pockets, their refrigerators, their wastebaskets.
	And then we get to look not only outside the body, but inside the body.
	Talk with their friends, talk with their families.
	And try to answer the question of what happened.
	Yeah.
	Um, you can, uh, I guess you can tell, what can you tell about a person?
	I mean, aside from, you know, the criminal aspect of how they might've been died or murdered or something, just in a normal autopsy, what kind of things can you, are revealed to you about the way that person lived?
	Well, you know, we start with the outer surfaces of the body and everything we do says something about ourselves.
	Everything we do is a decision.
	For example, what type of clothes we wear, whether we choose to drink while we drive, whether we choose to have a tattoo.
	I can remember a case I did where a man actually had a wonderful tattoo right on his belly You're kidding!
	You really can tell something about a sense of humor.
	You can tell an awful lot.
	And then when you get into the internal aspects of a body, you can begin to see how a person lived.
	If they've destroyed their lungs with cigarette smoking, or whether or not they've eaten diets that are high in sugar and fat, and have some of the hardening of the arteries, all those cholesterol problems, or whether they're fit.
	It really is an examination of the choices of our lives.
	We don't always die as we live, but when we die, and when we die suddenly, or unexpectedly, or from violent causes, the medical examiner, the coroner, becomes involved.
	And we have to do some explaining.
	It's HBO that does the series.
	Yes.
	And I would imagine that you have seen it.
	I have.
	Is it good work?
	It's excellent work.
	I thought so.
	You know, these death investigators are always so much more attractive.
	And they always get the story solved in an hour or so.
	But actually, the work that they've done on autopsy and explaining to the public has been absolutely phenomenal.
	I've seen such a change since the O.J.
	Simpson case, where the whole world had the opportunity to see how death investigation works.
	And it's been a time where I think the public has become educated.
	They have now more expectations of excellence in forensic medicine as well.
	I don't think that we understand, or at least the general public, a great deal about the process of death itself.
	It's something most people cringe about and don't want to talk about.
	And I would imagine that, I mean, when you bring up what you do in social circles, how does that go over?
	Sometimes not as well as you'd hope, I suppose.
	Well, sometimes it's an absolute conversation stopper.
	And of course, though, there is this incredible fascination With death.
	And what we do is so public that many times people say, oh, so you handled such and such a case.
	And I'll say, yes, I did.
	But you know, I can't really talk about it.
	Not the specifics of it.
	But the comment I get most frequently is, how do you do that work?
	How do you do that work and not get depressed about it?
	Okay.
	Can I ask that?
	Yes.
	How?
	Well, for one thing, you really feel like you're making a difference.
	In order For people to get on with living they have to grieve and in order to grieve they have to have answers.
	And what we can do is to go in dispassionately and examine some very tragic and horrible circumstances, make sense of them, put them together, give people answers.
	And give people a chance to go on living.
	And so you work with it every day, so you're used to the dead.
	In every movie that I've ever seen, Doctor?
	Yes, sir.
	They have the two detectives that come into the room to talk to somebody like yourself.
	And the work is going on, and who knows what's going on deep inside the body.
	And inevitably, just for effect, the ME reaches over during the course of the conversation, grabs a sandwich, takes a bite, and goes back to work.
	Any truth in that?
	No, absolutely not.
	I've always wanted to ask that question.
	I do have to tell you, when I started in 1978 with Dr. John Coe, the Hennepin County Medical Examiner, I actually did see him smoke a cigar once down in the autopsy.
	But that is not done at all anymore.
	We're now in all of our no-smoking zones.
	I see.
	Alright, I want to read you a quick story and get your take on this, alright?
	Here it is.
	Francis Foster was pronounced dead at 2.20pm.
	Three hours later, she came back to life.
	This is a breaking story today.
	Last night, as the Brooklyn woman remained in critical condition at New York Methodist Hospital, two EMT technicians were placed on modified duty while officials, I'm reading word for word from the story, while officials investigate whether they witnessed a miracle or made a mistake.
	The EMTs, one of whom has 16 years experience on the job, pronounced the 77-year-old woman dead in her apartment Saturday afternoon, police said.
	Source said the fact that she was extremely cold to the touch and that her 7th floor apartment had a strong odor made it seem rather unlikely she could be alive when a coroner from the medical examiner's office arrived at 5.35 p.m.
	That's 5.35, folks.
	Three hours, cold and dead.
	He found Foster to have a faint pulse.
	As he picked her up, it apparently started.
	The quote here is, the ME came in, lifted the body, and it caused a spontaneous heartbeat.
	Foster's next-door neighbor reported her missing Saturday afternoon.
	Police said she hadn't been seen in a while.
	Police said it was not clear yesterday how long it had been since she had last left her apartment.
	Have you ever heard of anything like this?
	I have never heard of anything like that and I gotta tell you that would be any coroner's or paramedic's worst nightmare to think that something like that would happen.
	I think sometimes when people are extremely cold their their heartbeats can be very low or faint and you know they don't give us a whole lot of details about You know, the rest of the story here, what, did she have a low blood pressure, a cardiac condition, etc.
	Right.
	But my goodness, you know, everybody does their their very best to make those assessments.
	That doesn't mean it's foolproof.
	Can you give me the official What you would say officially or what conditions would have to be present for you to declare somebody dead?
	No pulse.
	No pulse.
	No respirations.
	No respirations.
	No corneal reflexes.
	In other words, no blinking, no response to pain.
	Right.
	And when we begin to see post-mortem signs, no blood pressure, the settling of the blood in the dependent portions of the body.
	If you had the ability, what about a dead EEG?
	No brain activity?
	Zero?
	Well that of course is the exact criteria they would use in the hospital and that would be something a neurologist would use when they go through the criteria for pronouncing brain death.
	So that is dead?
	Yes, but you see in the hospital you have all of the other tools that you can use.
	Out at the death scene or the scene where the paramedics were, they're not going to have the advantage of an EEG.
	They're going to be able to put the paddles on and see that there may not be any detectable heart rate and I guess I'd like to know If they had those tools available to them or if they were just doing this by, you know, feeling for a pulse.
	All right.
	I don't want to bore my audience nor you, so I'll keep this very short.
	But I did a recent interview.
	My mind is beginning.
	I'm actually a very serious skeptic.
	People who hear me do the show don't think so because I listen to all guests.
	It doesn't mean I believe all that I'm hearing.
	In fact, I'm skeptical about most of it.
	And after death has been one of the more interesting areas of skepticism for me all my life.
	And I had a lady named Pam Reynolds on the show.
	48 Hours did a piece on her as well.
	She had a brain aneurysm.
	A very bad brain aneurysm.
	She was about to die.
	And wasn't anything they could do.
	They couldn't operate.
	So what they ended up doing in Arizona Was, uh, they removed all of her blood.
	All her blood.
	They, uh, stopped her heart.
	They, uh, measured her brain activity, which went to zero.
	Absolute zero.
	They lowered her body temperature to achieve all this.
	Then removed her blood.
	No, uh, EEG.
	No sign of life.
	No respiration.
	No eye movement.
	Zero zilch.
	By your definition, dead.
	Uh, for an hour.
	Doctor for an hour and what they did is they went into her cranium.
	Now, of course, no blood in the body.
	So the aneurysm was now deflated.
	They simply clipped it, sewed her up, warmed her up, put the blood back in her body, put the paddles on her chest and brought her back to life.
	And Pam Reynolds came back with a hell of a story.
	I can tell you a hell of a story.
	She was able to document what went on during that hour that she was gone, what equipment was used, how people moved, what they said in the operating room.
	Her doctor can verify all of this.
	It's an incredible story.
	So for one hour, Mrs. Reynolds was, she was dead.
	In every way we can imagine, we measure death.
	She was, she was dead.
	Where was she for one hour?
	Sounds to me like she was watching the procedure.
	Yeah.
	Oh, she was?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	That is just fascinating.
	Now, there's one little aspect of death that I certainly don't understand.
	It's beginning, you know, hearing things like this, it's beginning to close the door on my skepticism and I'm beginning to believe And I'm a tough case too.
	I really am.
	Despite what a lot of people think, I'm a tough case.
	I'm starting to think there is absolutely life after death.
	Do you have any thoughts on that?
	I do.
	I've got to tell you that I am a skeptic as well.
	I am first and foremost a scientist and I came at this with the education I had in medical school and everything that was taught to me in residency and fellowship and The stories similar to what you have related to me have really caused me to think.
	I've heard them now for over 20 years and at first would think about them and think I don't know what to make of this and I would dismiss it.
	Most of the people in your line of work won't talk about this at all.
	They won't.
	They won't say a word about it and they tend to think that those of us who do Maybe a little out in the fringe.
	I've got to tell you, it's taken me a while.
	Kind of taking this huge leap from my mind to my heart to even be able to talk about them.
	But I am a documenter.
	A forensic pathologist is basically a historian.
	We document the stories, the medical history, the bullets, the stab wounds, the cardiac disease.
	And when I talk with families or law enforcement, During a case, I document everything I hear.
	I put it all together and come to a conclusion.
	And for me, what has happened is, in the course of this documenting, I have heard some hard-to-believe, incredible stories.
	And when I'd hear one, I'd think, hmm, that's interesting.
	But when I put them all together, well, it was hard to ignore.
	They really had the ring of truth to me.
	And to tell you the truth, I used to just hope, but now I believe that life goes on in ways we just can't even explain.
	I saw a wonderful quote by Albert Einstein, and he said, the most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious.
	And I think we all have a tremendous curiosity about this, and in some ways, almost unknowing.
	But I have heard some Unusual stories that I do not know how to explain, that I didn't ask for, that just have happened in the course of my practice.
	And you've been doing this how long now?
	Since 1978.
	About 24 years.
	That's a long time.
	Yes.
	Okay, we've got a break coming up.
	When we get back, I would very, very much like to hear some of those stories.
	It sounds as though you and I are in very much the same sort of evolution of thinking about About death.
	It's happened to me just by doing this program and interviewing people like Pam Reynolds and many, many others.
	Pam Reynolds was just sort of the clincher for me.
	But, you know, this is a relatively big story.
	Maybe, you know, the biggest story in the entire world, whether or not our mortal existence is all there is.
	Doesn't get any bigger than that, does it?
	Yes.
	That's it.
	That is the ultimate question.
	All right.
	Hold it right there.
	I've always said that.
	It really is the ultimate question.
	That's why we deal with it a lot here on this program.
	I'm Art Bell from the High Desert.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	The night my body's weak I'm off the run, no time to sleep I've got to run, fight like the wind to be free again
	I'm off the run, no time to sleep I've got to run, fight like the wind to be free again
	I follow city streets, city streets The night when the neon's turned to dark, yeah
	It's way too hot to think of sleeping.
	We had to get out before the magic got away.
	It's the mornin' with the sunshine.
	I'm playin' with the shadows.
	Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from Western Milwaukee at 1-800-4-312-7000.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033. First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295. To reach out on the toll free international
	line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye.
	This night we are honored with the presence of Dr. Janice Amatuzio, who is a recognized authority in forensic medicine.
	...has developed many courses in topics like death investigation, forensic nursing, forensic medicine, and mortuary science.
	Dr. Amatuzio serves as coroner and regional resource for multiple counties in Minnesota and Wisconsin, currently doing that work in ME.
	We'll be right back.
	Hello, doctor.
	Welcome back.
	Your book is Forever Hours, right?
	Yes, sir.
	Why that title?
	You know, I chose that because it really shows my belief.
	That our loved ones are always with us and that maybe we just simply go on and on.
	I've really come to that conclusion after the stories I have heard over the years.
	All right.
	Stay close to the phone for me and remind, not remind me because I haven't read the book yet, sort of give us all a little idea of what began to convince you.
	May I tell you?
	A couple of the stories that I have heard.
	Please.
	That's really what started me on this track.
	Please.
	Our office investigates deaths and back in 1995 I had a case that was really one of those that really stood out in my mind.
	It was the death of a 22-year-old man.
	He was on his way home from a softball game.
	It was about one o'clock in the morning.
	It was in the summer.
	He was on unfamiliar dark roads.
	He evidently ignored a stop sign, and he collided with the side of a semi-boom truck.
	He was driving a mid-sized car, and unfortunately his car was wedged beneath that truck bed.
	The driver of the truck was rattled, but he wasn't badly hurt, and he called 911.
	Paramedics arrived.
	They found this young man, Greg.
	He had no pulse, no respirations, and they pronounced him dead.
	My investigator got to the scene, noted the severe head injuries, and did what is according to our protocol.
	He got the circumstances, did the scene investigation with the State Patrol, informed the mother of Greg's death, and sent the body in for an autopsy.
	The autopsy was performed by one of my colleagues.
	Now, the mother, who is a nurse, called several weeks later.
	She had a couple of questions about the report.
	Me being the coroner I called her back and had the chart in front of me and she had a number of questions and really regarding the extent of the injuries and so I went through those with her and she asked that question that is always so hard to answer she said did he suffer and I was able to tell her that from the extent of his injuries I was quite certain he would have lost consciousness immediately And died shortly thereafter and that he could not have survived his injuries.
	And she started to cry.
	She said, Oh, I miss him so.
	And he was so full of energy.
	And she paused for a minute and she said, Doctor, may I tell you something?
	And these are such intimate, intimate conversations.
	And I said, go ahead.
	And she said, you know, I have two boys, Greg and another son.
	And when they were young and I was working, I hired a babysitter and her name was Sheila.
	And she was with us for a number of years until the boys got a little bit older.
	And then we drifted apart.
	She says, I've not talked to Sheila for five years.
	After Greg's death, she said, I received a card from her.
	She's now out in California.
	So she said, I called her.
	She said, what I heard, I cannot explain.
	Sheila told me that on the night of Greg's death, she was awakened at two or three in the morning.
	By what she can only describe as an inaudible voice.
	And the voice said, Hey, Sheila.
	And she awakened.
	And Greg was standing next to her bed.
	Wow.
	She was stunned.
	And she said that Greg appeared distraught.
	And she did what she always did for him.
	She comforted him.
	And she said, What's wrong?
	And he said, I'm so upset that I've caused my family Such distress.
	And then suddenly, he was gone.
	Oh my God.
	But three nights later, Sheila, and Sheila didn't do anything, didn't call anyone.
	She said her bedroom filled with a gentle light.
	There was a presence.
	She woke up and Gregory was standing by the bed.
	And this time, he was calm.
	He was clear.
	And he said to her, would you tell my mother that I am fine?
	That I love her.
	And I am with Vernie now.
	Now, you know, I'm talking to the mother and I said, she said, Doctor, what do you think this means?
	And I said, well, who is Vernie?
	You know, because I got to tell you, as I'm writing this down, the hairs are standing up on my arms.
	Sure.
	Sure.
	And she says, well, Vernie is my mother.
	She said my mother died two years before Greg was born.
	And she says, and doctor, that's not all.
	Wow.
	She said, Greg visited his girlfriend, Trish, three nights after his death as well.
	Trish awakened, Gregory was there, he appeared calm.
	And she said to him, are you okay?
	And he said, yes, I am not alone.
	There are so many people here.
	Oh boy.
	And she says, doctor, what do you think this means?
	And, you know, I'm real well aware that I am an appointed county official.
	And if I start doing dream interpretation, I won't have a job for very long.
	And I said, well, Mrs. Barry said, what do you think this means?
	A good answer.
	That is the most important thing is what this means to you.
	And she said, well, to tell you the truth, Doctor, at first I didn't know.
	But now I am very peaceful.
	It's given me hope.
	She said, I know that we will meet again soon.
	And she said, as a matter of fact, she said, my husband and I put on his gravestone the words, we will meet again one fine day.
	Oh, that's great.
	Oh, my.
	Well, I was I was pretty astonished by by that story.
	And I remember thinking I wrote it all down.
	Well, you know, doctor, I do.
	serious ghost shows in which all we do is tell ghost stories and if I I tell you I've heard so many that approximate that story you just can't believe it or maybe you can I just it is getting to the point where it's no longer possible to ignore and the meaning of it well as we said at the bottom of the hour it's its biggest story in the world yeah it is do you think there's any Possibility, Doctor, and this one's a real reach, that we will ever understand conclusively, beyond any question, even scientifically, that there is life after death.
	Do you think that will ever occur?
	Science will ever get to that threshold?
	I don't know that we're ever going to get to it scientifically, but I think there are three levels of awareness about everything, and I think the first one is hope, the second one is belief, and the third one is knowing.
	And I think that those people who have experienced this go from hope to knowing in a way that many of us don't even understand.
	You know, recently you have been talking about the power of our thoughts.
	Oh, you have been listening.
	I have been listening.
	I see, all right, good.
	I mean, I've been holding my eyes open and balancing my radio on the bed.
	Oh, you're exactly right, yeah.
	And I wanted to, I was listening to you the other night and I was thinking, about two stories that I have heard that add an additional thought or a bit of gracefulness to what you have been speaking about and I think sometimes these stories that we hear make us aware of the power of our thoughts and I know on one of your shows you speculated on how powerful this is and how some of the coincidences seem to happen and it might just be the collective thoughts of all of your listeners.
	I'd love to tell you a story about, actually two stories, that came to mind when I was listening to your show last week.
	Fire away.
	I had a case of a woman who came home, this was about 7 or 8 years ago, and she found her 45 year old husband collapsed in a living room recliner.
	And he was dead.
	He was gone, and she was stunned.
	She called 911.
	They talked her through CPR.
	When the first responders got there, they attempted everything they could, but they pronounced him dead.
	One of my investigators got out there to the scene, found out there was no significant medical history, and told the wife that he felt that an autopsy was in order, and she agreed.
	She had two young children.
	I did the examination the next morning and I found a very unusual tumor in this man's heart.
	Something I'd only read about in medical school.
	I'd never seen.
	A tumor in his heart?
	In his heart.
	In the left ventricle of his heart.
	It was a papillary sort of a tumor.
	I really wasn't sure what it was.
	I sent this specimen with her permission to a specialist, a cardiac pathologist that we have here in the Twin Cities area.
	Just to do a little extra study on it to really determine what this was because I'd never seen anything like it actually before or since.
	When we request special studies sometimes it takes a week or two or sometimes three weeks to get the results back and in this case I delayed doing the death certificate until I had a specific cause of death.
	Well, you know, a death certificate is needed whenever we have to close out our legal affairs or do insurance or pay bills.
	Of course.
	And this poor lady got more and more upset with me because the weeks were going on and there was no death certificate.
	And she was upset and I understood it.
	And I also know that anger is one of those responses to grief.
	When I got the report, it was about three and a half weeks later, And I called her.
	And I called her.
	It was at work.
	It was a Friday.
	It must have been 20 after 5.
	And she was still at work.
	She was an accountant.
	And she said, oh, so you're finally getting back to me.
	And I said, you know, I'm really sorry.
	But this was really important for us to figure out exactly what happened.
	Sure.
	So I told her that it was this papillary fibroelastoma, a medical term, to the heart.
	And that a portion of that tumor had broken off and floated into the coronary artery.
	Acted just like a blood clot.
	It plugged the coronary artery and it precipitated a sudden abnormal heart rhythm and this man had started to have an acute myocardial infarct or heart attack.
	After I explained all that to her and the fact that it was not hereditary, that her children had nothing to worry about, she thanked me and she said, could I tell you something?
	And what followed was one of the most Astonishing stories because of the depth of it.
	She said, you know doctor this has been the worst thing that's ever happened to me in my life.
	We have been married for 17 years and we've never spent a night apart.
	We have two children.
	She said the first night after he died I slept on the living room couch.
	I couldn't even bear to sleep in our bed.
	She said the second night I actually went to bed.
	But she said I couldn't sleep because I could smell him on the sheets and all I did was cry.
	On the third night, she said, I was exhausted.
	And I shut the doors to my bedroom so as not to awaken the children with my sob.
	She said I finally, after tossing and turning, fell asleep at about 3 a.m.
	I awakened at 4 a.m.
	to the sound of footsteps.
	She said, I sat up.
	I was wide awake.
	I thought, oh my goodness, are my kids up?
	Sure.
	When, she said, through the door walked her husband.
	She said it was dark, but he just glowed.
	He smiled.
	He walked over to the bed and she said, Doctor, we talked for such a long time.
	We talked about the future and our children and the finance.
	And that land in Wisconsin that I've been waiting for that darn old death certificate on.
	She said, you know, I felt so calm and so reassured.
	And I didn't want him to leave.
	And she said what he said to me will last a lifetime.
	She said he was sitting on the bed next to me.
	He had his hand on my shoulder.
	And he said to her, our love will be forever.
	And whenever I need him to just think of him and my thought would send him rushing to my side.
	Wow.
	And then he told me that I would feel his presence many times in my life in many ways and that he would be there to help guide me and the children.
	And she said, Doctor, I mean I mean I was just like I was writing like crazy and I was Just astonished.
	Just your thought of me will send me rushing to your side.
	So you wrote down even this sort of thing.
	I mean, you would think this would be something that, I don't know, would be so unofficial that you just wouldn't think to write it.
	You know, it probably is rather unofficial, but I just, you know, practice a habit of always writing down my conversations.
	Because I never know when it's going to be important.
	I'm not writing this one down, Art.
	Feel free, that's quite all right.
	There's plenty of people transcribing it out there, believe me.
	Let me tell you the rest of it.
	She says she was overwhelmed, and she said, you know, my husband and I always slept together like spoons, and I knew immediately what she meant.
	Of course.
	She said, as far-fetched as this is, she said, Doctor, he then laid down in bed next to me.
	Wrapped his arms around me.
	I felt the weight of his body, the warmth of his body, and I slept soundly and contentedly for the first time since his death.
	Wow!
	I mean, I was just... How do you respond to that?
	What do you say?
	I was just overwhelmed.
	Actually, the tears were rolling down my cheeks.
	It was late.
	My secretary had left.
	I thought to myself, Nothing in medicine has ever prepared me for this.
	And I have to tell you, I thought, what if it's true?
	I mean, what if it's true?
	If this is true, just think of the power of our thoughts.
	The explanation the skeptics would give in a case like this is simple, and that is that her own mind, of course, produced all of this as a protective mechanism for her to deal with her grief.
	Right?
	Oh, absolutely.
	And what I say to the skeptics is, you know, that not everything that counts can be counted, you know?
	Not everything that's meaningful can be measured.
	And to this lady, this was the world.
	This was... Her husband was the world, yes.
	I understand that.
	I have a soulmate as well.
	We spoon.
	That's the only way we sleep.
	So, of course, I understand.
	And it's unthinkable to lose somebody like that.
	And I suppose if there was any way that, in fact, your loved one could come back to you or give you some message of solace, that would be the number one priority after dying, wouldn't it?
	Absolutely, it would.
	And you know, these occurrences seem to be The thing that maybe begins the healing.
	I've sometimes said that maybe grief is like a big wound.
	It hurts, it gets our immediate attention.
	And we really just don't know how we heal.
	Even physicians don't even know how wounds heal, but we know that we do.
	We don't know how wounds heal.
	We don't know why.
	We can measure them, but what causes them to heal?
	It's still, it's just kind of our bodies, you know, natural wisdom.
	And I sometimes wonder if, you know, we just don't kind of echo that with our grief.
	And these stories really seem to have a healing effect.
	Well, of course they do.
	Of course they do.
	Now, again, that story, a skeptic would certainly say it was a protective mechanism in her mind doing that.
	Uh, there were too many contemporary things discussed.
	I mean, financing, even the death certificate itself.
	Yes.
	And what that was holding up?
	Um, hmm.
	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
	Um...
	All right, when we get back, I have a study which I would like to discuss with you a little bit, done back in the late 1800s, I think, or early 1900s.
	We're at a break point, so relax, and we'll be right back.
	All right?
	Stay right there.
	Dr. Janice Amatuzio is my guest.
	Emmy, we'll be right back.
	I've been drifting on the sea of heartbreak Trying to get myself ashore
	For so long For so long
	Listening to the strangest stories Wondering where it all went wrong
	For so long For so long
	But hold on, hold on, hold on To what you've got
	Short Belt in the Kingdom of Nive From west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222, or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
	825-5033. First time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222 or use the wildcard line at
	1-775-727-1295. To rechart on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator
	and have them dial 800-893-0903. This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio
	With the Reapers diagnostician, Dr. Janice Amatuzio.
	Like the song says, 40,000 men and women every day.
	This is fascinating, albeit a bit morbid, but fascinating stuff.
	And when you hear these stories, you will slowly begin to realize that maybe it's not all over when it's seemingly all over.
	The CC Radio Plus is the best radio in the world.
	Now, it is a hundred and eighty, and then we'll sort of resume where we were.
	Doctor, there was a story It ran on the Associated Press, oh gosh, years ago now, not too many though, where an M.E.
	like yourself opened up a body in an autopsy and some incredible noxious gas began escaping from the body and I think several of the people in the room passed out and it was really, it was a big story.
	I don't know whether you recall hearing about that or not, do you?
	I do recall hearing about that, and I don't recall knowing what the answer to that was, or if they ever figured out what that was.
	Right, right.
	Exactly right.
	That's the same position I was left in.
	It's like they told the story and went, oh my God, what was that?
	And then there was never any follow-up.
	And you know, in the forensic literature and at the meetings, I have never heard that case discussed.
	Really?
	Never.
	Very interesting.
	You know, there's a lot we don't know.
	I guess there is a lot we don't know.
	And somebody else here is asking, you know, since it's your job, they're wondering, people have wondered for a long time about our brains.
	Now I know that's one thing in an autopsy you certainly look at.
	And people ask about a serial killer.
	People ask about an Einstein, somebody who's particularly brighter than somebody else.
	Do you find any, in autopsies, any clues At all with regard to an examination of the brain that reflect on the person that you know the person's life that you were examining.
	That's an interesting question.
	You know with the exception of injury or tumor or a disease process that we can look at and track microscopically.
	I don't see any difference.
	I don't see any difference in anyone who is kind or if anyone or anyone who is violent,
	like you say, a serial killer.
	What we can see and measure, and it may just be the limitation of our examination, is really
	looking at the tissue under the microscope, examining the chemical levels, and looking
	at the anatomy of it as well.
	And I'm very good at, you know...
	As most forensic pathologists are, you know, documenting injuries and diagnosing disease, and whenever we're at a loss, we will send them off to another specialist, a forensic neuropathologist, to help us as well.
	But nothing specifically that you or anybody else in your field has really noted about, I don't know, somebody totally antisocial, you know, a multiple killer, a serial killer, something like that.
	No real physical differences noted?
	You know, maybe there will be somebody else that can answer that question.
	But from my standpoint, and I've performed a lot of autopsies, I have not seen a difference.
	Do you have internet access?
	Yes, I do.
	One thing I would like to say, do you have internet access?
	Yes I do.
	Where you are?
	Yes I do.
	Uh huh.
	Are you able to get to my website?
	I did on Sunday, yes.
	You did on Sunday, then you'll make it again tonight.
	Oh yes, I will.
	I just had my webmaster put up an article that's sort of been with me for years that people have only believed as a myth.
	And the article is up there and you can read it during a break.
	It's a first item, folks, under what's new.
	And what it is, is it's an article that appeared in American Medicine in April of 1907.
	By a Dr. Duncan McDougall, M.D., of Haverhill, Massachusetts.
	And, uh, if you read the article, what he did, uh, doctor, was a meticulous study, which I guess you could do back in, uh, 1907, uh, without problems, of people at, uh, measuring, he actually measured people's weight, doctor, at, with their permission, I guess, at the instant of death.
	And what he found was, you can read in there, I know this is wild, off-the-shelf stuff, but he found that there was a documentable three-quarter of an ounce loss in weight at the exact instant of death.
	Fascinating.
	Fascinating is right.
	Now, I've got the study in American Medicine, a very prestigious publication on my website right now, so everybody can go see it.
	But they documented this, Doctor, and I can understand that in this modern day, you'd never get away with doing that kind of study.
	You know, dying, huh?
	Well, hop up here.
	But is there anything that you can imagine?
	And they accounted for bodily fluids and gases and all the rest of it.
	I mean, it's all in the article there.
	Is there anything that you could even think of that would explain the loss of, say, three quarters of an ounce at the exact instant of death?
	Hmm.
	Well, nothing is coming to mind that I could answer scientifically.
	I thought not.
	I'm dragging you down paths here.
	Yes, yes.
	Picking and screaming, I might add.
	So, during a break, go to Artbell.com if you can.
	Read this study for me and sort of give me a reaction to it, maybe at the next top of the hour break or something.
	I will, I will.
	Alright.
	You have other stories.
	A man who died Following some sort of procedure on his chest?
	Yes, yes.
	I have an interesting story.
	You know, you and I, and I'm sure so many of your listeners agree that these stories aren't new.
	But whenever we can hear how it applies to living, I think that's probably one of the most valuable lessons we can learn from these.
	I have a story that I heard, you know, first person, When I was an intern some 20 some years ago that was quite astonishing to me because of what this man had learned.
	This was during the time when I was on 36 hours and off 12 and on 36 off 12 as many interns are.
	I was internal medicine at the time and I got called about 2 30 in the morning To restart an intravenous catheter in a man.
	And I remember how very tired I was at 2.30 in the morning, having been up all day, you know.
	I said to the nurse, oh, would you just hot pack his arm and call me back in a half hour.
	And of course, that's the quickest half hour.
	The nurse came in the room, not only awakened me, but turned the light on and said, get up now and go start that IV.
	So I did, you know.
	The nurses give you orders and you follow.
	So I remember going down the hall and there's a certain intimacy to 3 a.m.
	It was on a ward where each room had two beds and his bed was the closest to the hall.
	The curtain was drawn.
	There was a little light and I remember looking in on him and this man was so swollen that my heart sank.
	The only thing bright about him were his eyes.
	His left arm was hot packed and I pulled the dressings off and I began to palpate for a vein.
	And as I was palpating intently, I have to tell you, I wasn't my usual perky, chatty self.
	I was much quieter.
	And this man looked at me and he said, I'm so sorry you had to get up.
	And I said, that's okay.
	You know, it's my job.
	And a few moments went by and he said, you know, doc, I died once.
	Now, this was 1977.
	This was before any of the movies, any, you know, Melvin Morse's books.
	Sure.
	Any of that.
	And I thought to myself, oh, I've got a, I've got a wild one here.
	I've got a live wire.
	I don't know what this means, but I said, yeah, sure you did.
	He says, you don't believe me, do you?
	And I said, I'm really not sure what to make of that statement.
	And he said, well, let me tell you.
	And he proceeded to tell me this astonishing story when He had had a filter put in his inferior vena cava because of all the blood clots in his legs that kept going through his lungs.
	The surgery was long.
	It was intensive.
	And after the surgery, he was wheeled into the post-anesthesia recovery room.
	And he said he can remember the nurse squeezing his shoulder and trying to awaken him and that he had trouble coming to.
	And he said the next thing that happened was that he says, Doc, I left my body.
	And I remember going, Yeah, right.
	How did you do that?
	And he said, right to the top of my head.
	Really?
	Really.
	And he said, yes.
	And he said, and you know, the most amazing thing was I could hear the thoughts of everybody in that room.
	He said, I felt the enormous concern of all of the nurses and the anesthetists that came running over.
	I saw the doctor come rushing over, and I felt his anguish and panic.
	And he said, I went down to the doctor, because I was up near the ceiling now, and by now, of course, I've got the IV in, I've got it taped, but I'm all ears.
	I'm listening to this man.
	And I said, well, what happened?
	He said, I went down to the doc, and I said, listen, I am just fine.
	I'm okay.
	And he said, the doc couldn't hear me.
	And he says I actually went around the front of him and I tried to stop him.
	He says I looked down on my body.
	I felt so sorry for it.
	And he said the next thing that happened was amazing.
	He said the guy in the bed next to me He had a cardiac arrest and I said don't don't tell me he he left through his head too and he goes yep and was he surprised to see me.
	So here they are both floating?
	They're both floating he says they're both looking down and he said you should have seen the confusion in that PAR.
	He said they had only one crash cart.
	They used up all the medications on me.
	They were rushing to get another crash cart.
	Wow.
	And he said I gotta tell you, he said, I could hear everybody's thoughts.
	He said there was even one nurse that was really irritated that all of this had happened because she had a hot date right after work.
	Same thing I went through with Pam.
	She could, in infinite detail, describe what people were thinking and doing with tools and medical instruments and what was moved around and what was said during this hour when she was dead.
	There simply is no... I mean, this is not anecdotal stuff.
	No, no.
	These are things that happened, irrefutably occurred, and this is beginning to change my mind.
	Yes, it changes the whole way of thinking.
	I mean, maybe life is perfectly safe, you know?
	But let me tell you the rest of the story.
	He said when the two of them got so frustrated, they couldn't communicate with any of those who were resuscitating them.
	He said, you know, we just decided to leave.
	And I said to him, and how did you do that?
	I said, did you go through the door?
	And he said, no, Doc, we went through the wall.
	And I said, and how did you do that?
	He said, Doc, We thought our way through.
	I was in the waiting room and I could feel all of the love that the people, the families had for those of us in the PAR.
	I felt this tremendous compassion.
	And then he said, we just thought our way right outside the hospital.
	I remember looking back and seeing the red brick and mortar.
	And he said, when we got outside, he said it was quiet.
	It was still.
	But he said it was warm.
	He said, I can't describe it.
	And he said, off in the distance, I saw the most magnificent light.
	He said, no, maybe it was love.
	But he said, we both were just drawn to it.
	We rushed to it.
	And he said, I found myself in this swirl of magnificent colors and lights I've never seen before.
	He said, I saw my family members who had died.
	I saw my dog.
	But he said, more importantly, I remembered the purpose of my life.
	I remembered how it worked.
	And I was stunned at the loving kindness that surrounded me.
	He said, at some point, I was aware of my companion.
	And he said, but then I became aware that I couldn't stay.
	And Art, even though this happened some 20-some years ago, this next part I remember like it was yesterday.
	That I couldn't stay?
	That I couldn't stay.
	He said, the other guy, and I said yes, he said, the other guy, he got to go on, and I had to come back.
	Does he remember how this, uh, maybe there aren't words you can put to it, but I mean, was there, was it in some way Related to him?
	He said that he was made aware that he had to go back.
	Was it just an understanding?
	It was a knowing.
	But he said when he got back he said he was so overwhelmed with peacefulness.
	He said it was hard to be back in his body and there was a lot of pain.
	But he said he was so overwhelmed that he didn't even speak of the experience for days, weeks.
	He said the first time that he mentioned it was to his doctor about a month later and his doctor flat out didn't believe him.
	He said it must have been the medication.
	He said the nurses Had to have told you.
	Isn't that what they always say?
	Must have been medication.
	And this guy said, it wasn't a reaction.
	He said, it was the most real thing that has ever happened to me.
	The doctor said, you were dead.
	You were dead and gone.
	You were gone for 15 minutes.
	And this man said, I know.
	I watched you.
	And the guy said, impossible.
	You were unconscious.
	And in a few minutes passed, and this patient said to me, you're the first person I've ever told that whole story to.
	And I said, I am so honored.
	And even then I said, what did this mean to you?
	Has this changed your life?
	Because I think that's what we're all really asking.
	And he said, I'm not afraid to die.
	It's the most magnificent thing that's ever happened to me.
	And he said, Doctor, I know that love is what counts, not things.
	And I've learned I have found out that I'm supposed to learn something each day and apply it because wisdom is knowledge applied and my goal is to live as well as I can and to make the lives of others better.
	Well, that's almost universally what those who have had near-death or death experiences say.
	I'm not afraid of death.
	A good friend of mine is Danion Brinkley.
	I'm sure you know the name.
	Yes, I know.
	Great book.
	Oh, you've read his book.
	Sorry, I don't even have to tell you.
	When you talk to Dan about death, he laughs.
	I mean, he actually laughs.
	He is the furthest thing, the furthest worry from his mind.
	And then there's one more thing.
	You said that during that period of time, that man understood what the people were thinking, the compassion and the love.
	They were feeling.
	Yes.
	There are many people like this, Doctor, that for a period of time, though it begins to fade, but for a period of time after they're back, retain the ability to understand what others are thinking.
	Have you heard those stories?
	I've only read about those.
	Uh-huh.
	All right, stay right where you are.
	I mean, to the degree in Danion's case that It became like a noise that he couldn't block out no matter how hard he'd try.
	He would hear others' thoughts to the point where he had to be alone.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Dr. Janice Amatuzio.
	M.E.
	Stay right there.
	there.
	I'm going to show you how to do it.
	It's very simple.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
	And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of God.
	It is indeed, and you should know who you're listening to if you're joining us late, Dr. Janice Amatuzio, who is a forensic Medicine type, she's an ME actually, has developed many
	courses and topics like death investigation, forensic nursing, forensic medicine, and mortuary science.
	Dr. Amatuzio serves as coroner and regional resource for a multiple of counties in Minnesota and Wisconsin.
	She's a heavyweight in her field and she's got some very interesting views.
	Would you like to feel 10 years younger in 10 weeks?
	A forensic pathologist perspective on immortality and living and...
	Doctor, how is this being greeted by your colleagues as a matter of interest?
	Well, that's quite interesting.
	Most of my colleagues have accepted it pretty well, particularly the physicians here at the hospital and several other of the forensic pathologists, but I have had two rather Different reactions.
	One of them was a very good friend of mine, a coroner in another county.
	And when I had lunch with him the other day, he said, oh Janice, he said, thank you for the beautiful book and the inscription in it.
	But he says, you know, I don't believe a word of it.
	Oh, I said, really?
	What do you think?
	And he said, well, I think when we die, we're all roadkill.
	And I said, well, we'll see, won't we, John?
	John will see, yes he will.
	Another time I was lecturing to a group of physicians at a hospital in St.
	Paul and you know physicians are skeptical and particularly on this subject and they were all sitting way in the back of the room and I was tethered to the microphone in the front.
	There was this chasm between us and I finished telling my stories and I felt that I'd been greeted with some interest but mainly skepticism and I was finished up and gathered my notes and was putting on my coat and boots and a couple of doctors came down and one of them said to me, have you ever heard any of these stories from an atheist?
	And I said, you know I'm not sure, perhaps.
	And he nodded and he said, okay, and he turned to walk away and he turned back and he said, you know, I heard a saying in the old country that might just apply here.
	He said, the saying is this, if all the world were blind and only one man could see.
	They would call him crazy, too.
	That's right.
	He said, good luck, and he walked away.
	Good luck and walked away.
	Yes, yes.
	You said earlier that a lot of people, when they deal with you, you know, relatives who are just in the grieving process, respond with anger.
	And I wonder how you handle that in your job.
	I mean, you must get a lot of it, a lot of anger.
	Oh, we do.
	Anger and shock and such incredible sorrow.
	You know, I had a lady come into this office once who was so angry and so upset and she was very difficult with our secretaries who are the first people they greet and I don't allow the people in my office to get abused and I took this lady in the room and I talked with her and afterwards I said to our secretaries, you know, we have to be, we can't let Terribly bad behavior happened but remember she's the one who lost her mother and that is so incredibly hard and usually there was a man that came in and his wife had been been sick for a long period of time a number of weeks in the hospital of a disease that the doctors just didn't diagnose right away because it was unusual it was a vasculitis an unusual
	disease called polyarteritis nodosa which is a systemic system-wide inflammation of the blood vessels and wherever the blood vessel is inflamed it gives that symptom like it if it inflames the blood vessels around the spinal cord you end up with paralysis perhaps or all sorts of different fleeting symptoms and she was a woman his second wife about 17 years younger than him And he was furious.
	He was certain that there had been a problem with the diagnosis and treatment.
	And I did the autopsy.
	And I have to tell you, this man called almost every day, angrily, until all of the special studies had been completed.
	And I decided to meet with him because I knew a phone call or a letter wouldn't be enough.
	And he came into my office so He looked as angry as he was.
	He was disheveled and unshaven.
	I brought him into our conference room and we sat down and we must have spent an hour and a half going through the autopsy report, the chart, and finally we finished and he had no more questions.
	I looked at him and I said, how are you doing?
	And he said, you know, I just can't believe this has happened to me.
	He said, you know, this was my second wife.
	My first wife died right after I had retired and along with that went all of my dreams for retiring and spending time together.
	Of course.
	And he said, I went to our church's grief group and I met this lovely younger woman.
	He said, you know, we had more fun.
	He said, she He said, love is different with her.
	He says, but we had a wonderful time.
	He said, I sold my house.
	We traveled up and down the country.
	We did all of the things I never took time to do in the earlier part of my life.
	And I never expected her to die before me.
	And now she's gone.
	And I'm bereft.
	And you know, there was just something.
	I said to him, oh, what a love!
	I said, you know, I talk to so many people after the death of a loved one and it's so infrequent I hear somebody describe their spouse with such passion.
	I said, you have really been loved and you have really loved.
	I said, do you know how few people get to really do that?
	Live full out and love with all their might?
	And he looked at me, and he just calmed down.
	And he said, thank you.
	I'll remember that.
	I think I can go on.
	I'll help him deal with it, sure.
	And I guess, in a way, you're a grief counselor.
	Yes.
	Doctor, I've got a question here from Scranton, Pennsylvania.
	I have this cute little computer next to me, and they can fire questions at me, which they do during the show.
	We hear many stories of near-death like the ones you've told with relatives appearing, with people floating in operating rooms, even moving out and then coming back and everything you said.
	But what you don't hear and what people don't talk about are the lesser discussed bad experiences.
	Those people who have had NDEs and have gone to Not such nice places have returned.
	Have you heard any such accounts?
	I have not heard one of those.
	Not one, huh?
	Not one.
	That's comforting.
	I have not heard one.
	I have found people finding themselves in phenomenal places of light and coming back with... Some of them have come back and have changed their lives.
	Mm-hmm.
	Have had the opportunity to look over their life and have changed them.
	What about the life review?
	Many come back and mention that to you.
	I had a man who had a... Actually this was a story told to me by a physician friend of mine.
	He had a patient who had a... Oh, I guess he was a difficult human being.
	Always fighting with his neighbors.
	His yard was a mess.
	The farm was a mess and this man developed a melanoma, a tumor of the pigment-bearing cells in the skin and when it was diagnosed it was already in his lungs and it was already on his arm and he had let this thing ulcerate and had let it go beyond where he should have and the doctors told him the only thing they could do was palliative surgery and they took him into the Operating room and removed the tumor from his arm.
	Evidently, when this man awakened, he had had one of these experiences.
	He said he had the opportunity to review all of the consequences of his actions.
	He had decided to change his life.
	Not only did his life change, but his farm changed and his relationship changed.
	Unbelievable as it was to this physician, four years later, there was not a tumor in his lung.
	Really?
	Really.
	You have... I mean, when you hear that sort of thing... My father passed of melanoma, which got to his lungs just a couple of years ago.
	And it's unrelenting.
	It's a horrible disease.
	There's no question about it.
	Can you explain to me, doctor, how that can happen?
	How these things that we hear about, that we call miracles, can occur?
	How can you have melanoma and have tumors in your lungs?
	And have them regressed?
	And have it go away?
	How does that happen, doctor?
	Sir, I don't know.
	I really don't know.
	But it does really happen, doesn't it?
	It does really happen.
	It happens sometimes.
	I wished I could tell you why it happens sometimes and not others, or why these out-of-body experiences happen to some and not others.
	It almost seems unfair in a way.
	You know, I can't really calculate how I'm living my life.
	Probably not all that well, and if I had a review, I'd probably Change some things I'm sure and that's kind of like a second chance that Some very few people seem to get and that most don't And you know, I think we are so lucky to even hear about these.
	Yes and and sometimes as Dr. Rachel Naomi Remen says we just have to live in the mystery and And maybe control what we can control and perhaps one of those things are our thoughts and our words and our actions.
	I know that's how I feel personally but you know what is fascinating is not that these things exist but how we react to them and how they change our lives.
	And most of the people who have had good experiences and Frankly, that is all that I have had the privilege of hearing about, have come back with a renewed sense of the power of love, of wanting to make the world a better place.
	I had a sheriff in a rural county when I was meeting with him after we had had a elderly woman brutally murdered in her farm home.
	The assailant had been caught and had pled guilty and I was meeting with the county attorney and the sheriff and one of the detectives was sitting at lunch who knew I was working on my book and you know he casually said, oh doc how's your book coming and you know that's just an absolute showstopper.
	They'd been talking about hunting and fishing and all of a sudden I was caught in that uneasy Uh, feeling of treading on what I perceive to be the fringe and of course there's all that law enforcement type healthy skepticism and I tried to get off the subject quickly when the sheriff of the county said, hey, dying's not the big deal people make it out to be.
	I drowned once.
	And I thought, drowned.
	He didn't say nearly drowned.
	He said, drowned.
	And I wondered what really happened and the county attorney leaned over and said, well, you grew up on Clearwater Lake, didn't you?
	The sheriff said, yes, my brother and I spent every waking moment of the summer swimming there.
	He said there was a lifeguard tower.
	It had four legs and each of the legs was like a ladder with rungs.
	He said when we were young, we'd just race to the bottom of the lake and back.
	And when we got older, we would make it a little harder.
	We'd swim in and out of the rungs.
	And he said one day he was on his way back and he says, I was almost to the top and I got stuck.
	He patted his hips.
	He said, there's a, Part of my anatomy that really got stuck.
	And he says, I was wedged.
	And he said, I started to panic.
	He said, I could look up.
	I could see the surface.
	And he said, he saw his brother up there.
	And he saw his brother get the lifeguard and pull him out.
	And the next thing he knew, he was on the bottom of a boat.
	And I looked at the sheriff and I thought, you know, I bet there's something more to this story.
	And I said, Sheriff, do you remember anything else?
	And he said, yes, but I, I don't usually talk about it.
	And the county attorney said, go on, go on sheriff.
	What is it you want to say?
	Sheriff took a deep breath and he said, well, what happened is as clear as if it happened yesterday.
	He said, I was struggling and I thought I'm going to die.
	What a dumb way to die.
	He said, I took a gulp of water and I found myself up above the water.
	He said there were beautiful colors, I was calm, I watched all of that frantic activity, and I found myself racing along the surface, and I could move by just thinking about it.
	And then I was jolted back into my body, and they were doing CPR.
	And he said, you know, Doc, what was so interesting?
	Was that everything looked like it was in black and white.
	It almost took me several days to get back to color vision.
	Wow.
	He said, I wondered if things were just so stunningly vivid and bright there that everything here seemed a little dull.
	And then he turned to me and he said, you know, Doc, I know you're the coroner.
	I know you see death every day and it bothers lots of folks, but I'm not afraid of death.
	After what happened, he said, Diane, that's easy.
	It's living that counts.
	And it's living this hard.
	That's right.
	You don't have to answer this, of course, if you don't want to, but it would be interesting to understand, are you a religious person?
	I was a Catholic.
	I no longer attend church.
	I wouldn't describe myself as religious.
	Spiritual though?
	But spiritual, yes.
	I have a great deal of respect for all of the religions.
	I have a great deal of respect for whatever helps people find meaning in their life.
	Again then, you and I are right on the same exact note.
	I too have a great deal of respect for religion and I know that it helps many people.
	And there's probably something to it all, I really don't know.
	But I'm sort of concentrating, because of the kind of person I am, and apparently you are too, on what we can seem to really prove.
	And we're beginning to get on the edge of some things that, finally, we may be able to really make a very strong case.
	I mean, and it's books like yours that are helping to do this.
	That there is an afterlife maybe you know, it's it's who knows God Buddha whoever Yes, yes the creator, but there is some sort of continuation that That seems to occur It's so it's so overwhelming and it's so common I I just Two weeks ago spoke with a woman her 38 year old husband had died.
	He was an alcoholic and He had alcoholic liver disease and hepatitis B, and he wouldn't stop drinking.
	And here he was, you know, dying.
	And I called to tell her the results of the autopsy and toxicology tests.
	And when I had finished talking with her, she said, Doc, can I tell you something?
	It doesn't happen that often, but I said, go ahead.
	And she said, you know, I was in bed with him when he died.
	And just before he died, he looked up at the ceiling and he said, do you see that light?
	And she said, no.
	And she said, he said, wow, it's beautiful.
	He said, Lori, I have no pain.
	I have found what no drug would ever do for me.
	This is what I've waited for all my life.
	Then he died?
	And he died with his eyes wide open.
	I listened, and she said, what do you think?
	And I said, well, what does this mean to you?
	And she interestingly said, she paused a minute, and she composed herself, and it took a moment to pull it together, and she said, Doctor, I've always believed in God in heaven before, but now I know.
	I have no doubt, and I will love him forever for that.
	Something doctor.
	I'll hold on when we get back.
	I'll tell you what during the break if you can read some of that Study if you have an opportunity to and maybe we can get your comments on it when we get back Stay right there.
	My guest is a Is an Emmy.
	She's dr. Janice Amatuzio.
	She's got a book.
	You might want to read it after hearing all of this Miracles, that's a Separate and also very interesting topic, isn't it?
	Her book, once again, is Forever Hours, a forensic pathologist's perspective on immortality and living.
	And there's a link, of course, from my website, I presume amazon.com, and all the usual places.
	From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
	when we get back we'll go to the phones.
	Bye.
	How could I ever forget?
	It's the first time.
	The last time we ever met.
	But I know the reason why you can't decide.
	The fear of the police.
	I'm not even a police. Well, the hurt doesn't show, but the pain still grows. So I'm afraid that you and me... I'm not
	even really coming in here tonight.
	To recharge Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
	east of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033. First time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222
	or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295. To rechart on the toll free international
	line call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	My guest is Dr. Janice Amatuzio.
	She's an M.E.
	and kind of a heavyweight in the area.
	And we're talking about life and death.
	and we're going to the phones with all of you shortly.
	Well, there are flashlights and there are flashlights now.
	The flashlight that, once again, Dr. Janice Amatuzio.
	Doctor, welcome back.
	Thank you.
	Did you have a chance to at least glance at that article?
	Yes, sir.
	I've actually had a chance to look the whole thing over.
	Uh-huh.
	It's quite fascinating, Dr. McDougall's work.
	I'm referring, of course, to the study done in the early 1900s about a loss of weight at the instant of death.
	Now, can you imagine that any study such as that could be done today?
	Well, I'm not sure that I don't see why it couldn't be done if somebody wanted to do it but you know what I find fascinating about this is that I think that this is medicine's or science's attempt you know to it's an old study to answer an age-old question and that is what left?
	What left?
	And you know I don't know that we are ever going to be any better at measuring but As you and I have been talking the last hour or two, I think we're beginning to understand.
	We're understanding.
	Yes.
	That understanding is really coming through what is for us an unlikely source, and that is stories.
	I know in other cultures, sometimes Native American cultures, stories play a very important role in helping us find meaning.
	Indeed.
	That always has not been As important a source in our current culture.
	Why do you think that is?
	I think because we like to rely on science because we have begun to be able to measure things and explain things and some of our technological advances are astonishing.
	I think it's always a balance.
	I think we have to balance, you know, the mystery and the mastery.
	And the mystery is usually explained by the stories and the mastery is explained by the science.
	Science.
	That's true.
	Absolutely true.
	All right.
	I would sure love to take some phone calls.
	Are you up for that?
	Yes, you bet.
	All right.
	Well, the switchboard, as they say, is all lit.
	So let's see what we've got.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Janice Amatuzio.
	Hi.
	Good morning, Art and Dr. Janice.
	First thing, could I get the last name spelling of Janice's name?
	Doctor, go ahead.
	Yes.
	It's A-M-A-T-U-Z-I-O.
	Okay.
	Common Italian spelling.
	That's great, one you won't forget.
	Let me begin first.
	I'm up here in Seattle and I actually lived a few blocks from the King County Morgue when it was located at Queen Anne Hill in Seattle.
	Yeah.
	Right at the foot of the space and whatnot.
	And as kids we used to walk by that morgue on the way home from school and we'd see the panel vans with the gurneys going in with the body bags and whatnot.
	But as kids, we weren't really scared going by there.
	It was kind of like we treated it like a hospital, even though we knew these people weren't coming back to life.
	The irony about that location is it was closed down and they moved facilities, but it became a haunted house for a time for a local radio station one Halloween.
	We had the opportunity to walk through it and it was definitely disturbing at that point because then we had memories of what this building served purpose.
	Now it serves as a retirement home and nursing home.
	So if you can imagine if the patients knew that.
	Um, my second point, uh, was I've also been, uh, with my mom and mother-in-law at the time of their passing.
	And I think that's remarkable for, you know, anybody to experience death that first close at hand with loved ones.
	But at both times, I felt at ease letting them go in the next life.
	And my mother-in-law had told my wife not to worry because she believed this was her last time on earth, that she had lived many lives before.
	And that this was the time that she was not going to be coming back.
	Now the one last point I have, I've experienced death close at home with neighbors or friends, one of which was a neighbor across the street from where I lived and I happened to come by the house and the husband was out on the front stoop one Monday afternoon in the sun and we were talking and then he eventually invited me in and here's his wife laying in the front living room with a dog jumping all over her body and he tells me that she had been laying there for two days dead And I asked why had the bodies still not been removed and he said that the Seattle police had called the Seattle morgue, the King County morgue rather.
	They had told him that they would get a funeral director in there, of which I called the SPD dispatch and they said no, he's to call for the funeral director, but the morgue had issued a tow tag.
	Now my question, as well as this other point, I also had a landlady that... I'm not sure what your point was.
	Well, I'm going to get to it.
	My former landlady died mysteriously one weekend, and her son had just appeared out of nowhere, and neighbors heard screams and whatnot, and the officers at the scene both had questioned whether it was a homicide or natural cause, but in both cases, these women were of elderly age, and the King County morgue issued tow tags And both bodies were cremated before an autopsy was ever performed, and I'm just wondering, isn't there not a law that autopsies are to be performed?
	Oh, okay.
	Doctor?
	I'm not certain exactly what the rules in Washington are, but the general overall principles are that a death scene investigation is performed.
	A scene investigation, an investigation of the circumstances, and if the manner of death is not explained, By the scene investigation, or if there are any injuries to document or specimens to gather, then a post-mortem examination is performed.
	The King County office is highly respected.
	Excellent work comes out of their office.
	And I'm not familiar enough, and I don't know that you are either with all of the details, but I would surmise in the first case, there was a miscommunication as to when the funeral director should be called.
	And in the second case, perhaps the screams you heard were grief, Because grief has many faces, but I would dare say that after a thorough scene investigation, an investigation of the circumstances and her medical history, that they decided to release her without an autopsy.
	And whenever there is cremation, there should be a death investigation, at least in a discussion with the physician who was attending that person as to whether or not there was anything untoward, any accident, or any reason not to cremate.
	Let me yank you back for a second.
	I have had several people call me, Doctor, who have been with a loved one at the moment of death and have actually been over them, hugging them, holding them at the instant of death.
	And I have been told by some fair number of people, Doctor, that they actually At the instant the person passed, they felt something move through them.
	Have you ever heard that?
	I have heard that.
	Oh, you have?
	I have heard that.
	I've not experienced it personally, but I've heard it from several close friends and acquaintances.
	We're back to stories here, but I mean, those are some stories.
	Those really are.
	There's certainly more than meets the eye here, isn't there?
	Yes.
	I read a quote once that might fit here.
	It said, there's more in this universe, seen and unseen, than the imagination can hold or the heart can fathom.
	It might have been Shakespeare, I'm not certain, but we're at that point here.
	Yes, we are.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Janice Amatizio.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is David in DeVore, California.
	Hi, David.
	I just want to say, phenomenal, phenomenal program.
	Thank you.
	Well earlier somebody asked the question of people having negative near-death experiences.
	Oh yes.
	And a few years ago I had a roommate and we were outside we were talking it was late in the night and he told this story about how he was he died and at that time in his life there was a lot of bad things going on and he was on a lot of drugs at the time but he had an overdose and his heart stopped And he said that he felt himself just sucked out of his body faster than anything he could describe, and that he ended up in this place.
	The only way he could describe it was complete darkness forever, and that he was completely isolated, could communicate with nobody, but out inside of this darkness, he could feel the presence of other souls out there.
	But no way to contact them.
	Just complete another desolation and isolation.
	And when he told me this story, it just, it still brings chills down my spine.
	And so I just wanted to share that with you.
	I'm sure it's possible that, you know, you could say it was the drugs that did this, but I believe that he died and went to what he believes was hell.
	Well, I'm not sure I would apply the drug explanation any more easily here than I would in the good stories that we get.
	But there you are, Doctor.
	We do get these.
	I understand.
	Did his life change at all after that experience?
	I don't think it did.
	And that's one of the problems with it.
	Because this was years before I knew him.
	And when I knew him, he was still on drugs.
	He had a methamphetamine problem.
	Well, I suppose, uh, if you didn't want to quit your way of life, caller, uh, you could say to yourself, it was the drugs and just plow right back into your life.
	Yeah.
	But, but I think he, he realized that it was more than the drugs because the way he told it to, you know, I recount this story, but he said, what I'm telling you right now is a millionth of what it actually felt like.
	It's just, you know, words cannot describe the pure just terror and isolation of it.
	So.
	Almost the same things that drugs do to individuals is isolate them.
	All right, caller, thank you very much.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	There are stories like that, doctor, and I've heard them and I've heard some really amazing stories.
	Every bit as detailed and on the other side horrific as the good ones.
	There was a young lady Get this.
	She was a church volunteer.
	Her name was Sarah.
	Most moving story I ever heard.
	I'd play it again and again if I could.
	And she was on her way home from church.
	Get this.
	Church volunteer work.
	And she was hit by a car.
	Oh my.
	Really hard.
	From the rear.
	And it just hit through her, I don't know, 150 feet or something or another.
	And she was dead.
	She was clinically dead for a very long period of time.
	I can't recall how long.
	But she went to a hellish place.
	And she described it in incredible detail.
	More like a visitor than a permanent resident.
	But she got to travel around and look in these various areas where she saw what she described as millions of tormented souls.
	And it was... You would have had to have heard the story.
	My relating it just is insufficient.
	But it went on for hours.
	It was incredible.
	So, there are these things.
	Do you believe, Doctor, that there is a... How can I ask this?
	Do you believe in good and evil?
	Yes, I do.
	I believe they're opposite polarities.
	Opposite polarities, right.
	So, in an NDE or a death experience, Somebody experiences evil does that surprise you or it has
	a very bad experience or that there were now people of course
	Remember coming back as unlikely as you are to even talk about a good experience. You know floating around the room
	whatever You're much less likely to talk about
	Meeting the horned one Or something like that, right?
	You're going to keep that one to yourself, probably.
	Yes, I'm not going to comment on that, Art.
	I'm going out far enough on a limb even relating these stories.
	I hear you, in your position.
	I understand.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Dr. Janice Amatuzio.
	Hi.
	My name's Roger.
	I'm calling from Auburn, California.
	Yes, sir.
	Wonderful show, Art and Dr.
	Wonderful.
	Anyway, I have a story about 20 years ago.
	I grew up in a small town close by here, Nevada City.
	A little old mining town.
	And I had two friends that were like best friends.
	We went to grade school and high school together.
	And one's name was Dan, one name was Wendell.
	And basically we'd been partying at the California State Fair.
	And then we Went home, I had my girlfriend, I had to take my girlfriend to her house, and she promptly snuck out of the house, and we went to my house.
	Well, at 1.29 in the morning, I remember because I looked at the clock, I snapped awake, out of a deep sleep, because somebody was in my room.
	And when I, uh, kind of, in and out of, uh, McGrogginess, I knew, I knew that it was Wendell.
	And he was with somebody.
	And Wendell was saying to whoever he was with that he didn't want to wake me up, didn't want to disturb me.
	And whatever he was with said, no, he won't mind.
	He wants you.
	And Wendell came up to me and said goodbye.
	And I got a really good feeling from the person or being or whatever it was that he was with.
	And my girlfriend also woke up.
	So and she remembered something about Wendell being in the room.
	And I went back to sleep, had to get up early to sneak my girlfriend back to her house, drove back home, went back to sleep.
	At about 10 o'clock, my mom came in, woke me up crying, and said that Wendell and Dan had gotten in a car accident, and Wendell was killed at 129 in the morning.
	Wow.
	And then, the accident happened in front of my girlfriend's house, and by the time I had brought her back, they'd already removed the wreckage.
	Dan, who was the driver, Had popped out of the windshield and landed in a pile of hay.
	And when I asked him, does he remember what happened, he said that somebody grabbed a hold of him, carried him out of the windshield and set him on the hay.
	And that's a God's honest truth story.
	Wow.
	Oh no, I believe it.
	And I went from a, like you said, a disbeliever or non-interest to a definite believer.
	I'm, you know, I was a football player.
	In the Army and everything and I've been always serious about things and it just convinced me.
	Well, this is something to be very curious about.
	Alright, Caller, thank you very much.
	Thank you.
	Doctor, so there you are, another one.
	Yes.
	I've also heard stories that people who don't experience, you know, an instant death or some tragedy or accident or murders, suicide, whatever, but people who die slowly, And know that they're near death.
	Inevitably begin to report seeing people and sometimes loved ones, but more as frequently as not, people they don't even know.
	They just report seeing people in their hospital rooms.
	That sort of thing.
	Have you heard a lot of those reports?
	Yes, I have.
	I actually had a nurse come up to me after one of my lectures and she had a twinkle in her eye and she said, you know, Doc, she says, Those of us nurses who care for very sick patients know that when they start talking to people, not in the room, that they're not going to be here much longer.
	That's it.
	That's right.
	And she laughed.
	And I said, yes, you know, I just do wonder what that's all about.
	You know, maybe they're just starting to see with different eyes, you know?
	I don't know.
	And see a different place.
	Hold on, Doctor.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	A very different place.
	Maybe a different dimension.
	That's just a word, isn't it?
	I'm Art Bell.
	Don't you feel it's growing day by day?
	People getting ready for the move.
	Oh, they're happy to come out and dance.
	Oh, we're gonna let the music play.
	What the people need is a way to make them smile.
	The International.
	The International.
	Oh, oh, oh.
	Some fell in mourning when I was three.
	I'm gonna open up your gate.
	Thank you.
	And maybe tell you about Maitre and how she gave me life and how she made it in.
	Some bells at morning when I'm asleep.
	And how she gave me life, and how she made it in Some felt it more than when I was trained
	Flowers growing on a hill, dragonflies and cattle dills Learn from us very much, look at us but do not touch
	Bedrock is my name Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies
	at 1-800-637-8000 1-800-825-5033. First time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
	And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295. To rechart on the toll free
	international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye.
	Certainly is.
	Dr. Janice Amatuzio is my guess.
	She's an M.E.
	from the Upper Midwest and she's told some pretty interesting stories.
	Should help you think about what may be coming.
	No, correction.
	What is coming.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Stay right where you are.
	Doctor, somebody fast blasted me that they've been checking out Amazon Cannot Find Your Book.
	Is it not available there?
	It's not quite yet on Amazon.
	We hope it'll be on in the next week or so.
	Right now, you can get it through our website or by calling our office.
	Oh!
	Gee, you should have said that earlier.
	This has only been a couple of weeks out yet.
	Oh!
	Alright, calling your office.
	Alright, what number would that be?
	That would be 763-236 9050, or they can download an order form off of our website, foreverhours.com.
	Which we have a link to, no problem there.
	But there is a phone number, and it's 763-236-9050?
	Yes.
	Oh gosh, I wish we'd had that earlier.
	Well, so I presume that in the next two or three weeks or so, Amazon.com will have it.
	Yes, they will.
	We've put in our application, but we have not yet gotten it.
	So this is really a new book, isn't it?
	It's just out.
	I just published it.
	How did you feel when you finished?
	I've written a few books myself, and I'm always curious, when you finally put the last touch on it and sent it off, how'd you feel?
	Exhilarated, and like sending a child off to college.
	All of those mixed emotions.
	It's just like, I've heard it described as something like birth.
	Yes, yes, and postpartum depression.
	Yes, yes, yes, yes.
	Do you think there's more in you?
	Will you write more?
	Oh yes.
	Yes, I am going to write a second book on these experiences.
	It's been absolutely fascinating.
	And they don't happen very often, but more and more are pouring in.
	All right.
	Here we go.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Janice Amatuzio.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi, Dr. Janice.
	Hi.
	As a skeptic myself and an atheist on religious matters, of course I'm just as scared of death as Art Bell is and most people, too, because I think death, logically, rationally, is non-existent.
	But, of course, Ultimately, it's the unknown, the fear of the unknown, and everybody, or most everybody, is frightened of the unknown.
	But we must look at this from a scientific point of view, using the scientific method.
	And I have a little theory, a little hypothesis, I should say, a better word than a theory, as to where we could both have it both ways, meaning there still could be an existence after death, say the mind, I would not use the word soul, that's a religious loaded word, but let's say the mind, which is the thinking, feeling, emotions, and memory of the person, maybe could exist Once the body dies, without there being a God, without there being a Creator, if you'll bear with me, I'll say it briefly and then you can comment on this.
	Let's say the mind is some kind of energy.
	We know there are matter and energy, two basic forms of things in our cosmos.
	If the mind is energy, if you want to use the term, I suppose, I don't know if it's
	valid, but intelligent energy, assuming that makes some kind of sense.
	So that if energy, energy which cannot be created or destroyed, therefore once the brain
	and the body dies, the mind, which is energy, does not destroy, let's say, and keeps existing
	after the body dies.
	But also the mind, which is energy, does not have to be created, therefore you don't need
	a god, certainly not a biblical god, to create the mind or the body or the brain for that
	matter.
	My point is simply, what do you think of the possibility or the concept, looking at it
	from as scientific as we can, from the year 2002 science that we have now, medical science,
	that maybe the mind or consciousness, which I like instead of the word soul, I'm saying
	again, could exist after the body dies.
	And maybe we always existed, but we don't remember.
	Maybe we always existed, and we'll always continue to exist, but we just don't remember, except maybe unconscious.
	All right, Bill.
	Well, Doctor?
	I think that's fascinating.
	I think there's, I think Bill, there's some very What I think are real elements of truth in what you say.
	But you know, more than anything else, um, we don't know.
	I think we may come to some more and more scientific conclusions, but it takes us right to the edge of the mystery.
	I just don't think we know.
	I too find myself more in agreement with him than disagreement, and I don't know about religion.
	I'm respectful of it as you are, but I don't know about it.
	What I do seem to know more about is This increasing amount of evidence that there simply is something that goes on, and I'm not sure, you know, I will get a million emails saying, fool, of course you go on!
	It's God!
	You know, and so that's all right, that's fine.
	It may well be, and I hope that's true.
	Doctor, do you have an email address?
	And be cautious here.
	Not yet, but when I upgrade my website, which is happening soon, There will be an email address on our website.
	A way to contact you, okay.
	Yes.
	All right, so we'll leave it at that for now.
	And again, the number of folks to order the book, the only way to get it right now, other than the website, is 736... 763.
	I'm sorry, 763-236-9050.
	Now is that a daytime?
	That's daytime.
	I'm sorry, 763-236-9050.
	Now is that a daytime?
	That's daytime, that's central time, so it's 7.30 in the morning until 5 in the afternoon.
	Central time.
	Central time.
	7-6-3-2-3-6-9-0-5-0.
	All right.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Janice Amatuzio.
	Hi.
	Hi there.
	Hello.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Oregon.
	Okay.
	First of all, I think that that last caller was a pantheist, not an atheist.
	Well, so am I.
	But I first just have a couple comments and I want to ask a question and I'll listen to it off the phone.
	I'll turn my radio back on.
	Sure.
	I do a lot of reading about past life regressions and near-death experiences and the dark place that that caller described where his friend had a near-death experience and went to a dark place and felt like he couldn't have any communication or contact with anything.
	That's been described by a lot of different sources and a lot of different people from various backgrounds.
	As a place where you go to overcome grief and attachments that are no longer of use to moving on to the next place, and that your perspective in that area matters.
	Like, who knows, maybe that's where the atheists go.
	You don't believe in anything, you don't get anything.
	But in a lot of the reading I've done, it says that it's a place to overcome grief and attachments, and then the people, sane people that you know, or that you don't know, Or people that even you feel like they know you those could be people from past life that you don't remember from your current Incarnation or whatever, but that's why you seem to not know them, but they seem to know you all right Let's run that one by the doctor doctor.
	Is that something you have considered the whole concept of?
	reincarnation and other you know some hypnotists have done some Pretty incredible stuff.
	I you know if you do some reading people have been regressed and And I have heard the most remarkable evidence of past lives described and then confirmed.
	You know, halfway across the country, they'll check a name or an address or something and boom, there it is.
	Oh, Art, I think personally, for me personally, it's a given.
	It's the truth.
	It seems to me, personally, to be what is real.
	And that's apart from being a forensic pathologist or medical examiner.
	For me, it just has the ring of truth about it.
	And I've never had a past life regression.
	I just think that we've got to have at least more than one try at this to get it right.
	Well, uh, exactly.
	Alright, first time color line, you're on the air with Dr. Janice Amatuzio.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I have a question.
	My mom died like three years ago.
	And while she was in the hospital, the doctors never let me know toward the end that she was going to die.
	They never said anything to us as family.
	We had called the day before she died because we had sensed that something was not right.
	And she had never said anything herself, and the doctors never said anything to us either.
	And my first question really is, I mean, I realize doctors can't tell when the death is going to come, but why would they not talk to family at all?
	You know, they just completely shut us out.
	And it has had very devastating impact on me.
	And I have to say that my mom went downhill so quickly that I at this point feel that it is possible that someone messed with her in some way.
	Because there were reports from the nurses My mom kept dialing 9-1-1 from her hospital room.
	Well, this would be certainly a... Was there an autopsy done?
	Unfortunately not, and she was cremated right after, and I didn't even... I was so devastated with grief that I didn't think to have one done.
	Well, I would think that under those circumstances, if they were known, there would have been an autopsy.
	Doctor?
	Excuse me.
	I think an autopsy would have been Indicated if there was some question you certainly could have someone help you review the medical chart.
	But I would I would say to you that physicians many of them are uncomfortable with letting a patient go and dying and I don't know exactly what your mom's physical condition was.
	I would also ask you what were your mother's wishes about So in other words, it could have been that she really didn't want anybody to know.
	May I ask you one other thing?
	Certainly.
	This is a very, very sensitive topic and it's one you don't have to broach, you don't have to answer.
	But there are a lot of people, we have a lot of cancer, we have a lot of really terrible ways, I suppose, to die.
	I think I know and I think most or a lot of people in the country know that there comes a time in the treatment of a patient where pain control and the hastening of death become a very blurry line indeed and I've had personal experience with some of my friends who have passed Who I know were given a pain medication that would likely result in their death.
	And how common a practice in your opinion, Doctor, is that?
	Well, I will put on my medical hat here and tell you I don't see that very often.
	You don't?
	No, I do not.
	We investigate all the deaths of individuals in hospice.
	And one of the problems for us as scientists and forensic pathologists is that when pain medications such as morphine are given over a long period of time, individuals get a remarkably increased tolerance to pain.
	So, excuse me, increased tolerance to the medication so that their levels are extremely high.
	And it's sometimes very hard for us to determine whether that was an overdose or, you know, a deliberate overdose or just a result of Yeah, it's a pretty hazy line, isn't it?
	It's a very hazy line.
	Morphine and Valium, there are certain combinations that can hasten the passing, aren't there?
	Absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	Or ease the pain.
	Because so many people in those terminal stages have.
	Well, that's why I said it's a very hazy line, isn't it?
	I actually think that the greater problem at times is not giving people enough pain medication.
	Hear, hear.
	To help them.
	I really do.
	Hear, hear.
	I think we get so frightened of this whole problem of death and dying.
	That we withhold medications at a time we shouldn't be.
	We also get rather frightened of the DEA, don't we?
	We get terrified.
	The DEA and the medical examiner.
	That's so wrong.
	What can be done in America, in your opinion?
	Well, I think that we, I think we as a society have, and you know, have kept death at a distance.
	And I think it's coming right to us right now.
	I mean, the events in the past, A couple of months have put it right in our face.
	We've all been learning how to grieve again and how to live.
	I think with our increasing consciousness and awareness and sensitivity and kindness, I think we'll all learn or remember together.
	That's interesting.
	Wow, Caroline, you're on the air with Dr. Janice Amatuzio.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi, Doctor.
	This is James from Phoenix.
	Art, you were just asking how often I was practiced?
	Well, that just happened to me a couple months ago.
	They told me I'm off the terminal list.
	They changed my medication because I keep going and going.
	But anyway, I had an ordeal with a scorpion a few years ago in the mid-90s.
	It stung me in my jugular vein.
	And... It just... I couldn't get to the vet hospital.
	I finally had to stop at one closer and, uh...
	They didn't know what to do.
	I mean, I had to force myself to breathe.
	Come to find out later, it was a scorpion that was extinct in North America for 10 years.
	It got shipped up on a package from South America.
	Holy smokes!
	Yeah, and so 11 hours I was... I had to hover out of my body.
	I hurt so bad I couldn't stand it.
	I could sense the whole room full of entities, people sitting all around, everybody, and
	they were more astral than physical.
	I didn't have time to concentrate on that around me because every time the machines,
	the EKGs and the EEGs went flat, I had to wait a while.
	And then once I started getting nervous, I had to switch my toe and it just pulled me right back in my body.
	The pain was so intense.
	Finally, the doctor found out what it was.
	They shipped up some medication from Tucson, some antivenom, at the medical labs they were experimenting with.
	The first one didn't work, so they had to use the other one.
	It was goat's blood.
	I could finally get back into my body and the doctor came in and shook my hand and that really put me back in intense pain.
	I made his day because he was just farting around on the computer and figured it out.
	That is an incredible story.
	That really is incredible.
	So you remember going in and out and in and out of your body?
	Oh yes, I had to.
	I mean, I kept watching the machines and I didn't want to go too far.
	I had experience when I was real little because nobody told me I couldn't leave, you know?
	But this made me do it.
	You can't talk over there.
	You have to use your intent.
	After I got out, I couldn't form a complete sentence for weeks.
	I mean, the Poison Control Center was calling me a few times a day.
	But now I've got this nerve problem.
	Like I said, they just had that practice on me.
	Cancer is like a 27 on a 50 scale, and this is like a 43 RSV.
	And I can actually see my dead brother and my grandpa.
	And people that know me know that I can, because they know I'm Kind of weird, but I don't lie.
	Conscious entities are still around sometimes.
	I just wanted you to know about that and was wondering how often Things like that happen that people can actually see on the other side afterwards?
	Apparently, sir, pretty frequently is the answer.
	We were talking about that earlier, that people that don't go in some instant way do seem to begin to see others around them, not even necessarily loved ones or relatives, but others.
	And this is a pretty frequent report to the point where people in hostels, you know, for those who are dying, as the doctor said, Once they say they're starting to see people, they know they're very close to death.
	Has this changed your life at all?
	Has this changed my life?
	The caller's life?
	He's gone.
	It's changed my life.
	Doing this program, listening to these kind of calls and people and guests like you has changed my life.
	Doctor, we're out of time.
	It has been an absolute pleasure having you on the air and I want to have you back again if you will I'd love to.
	It's really been marvelous.
	In the meantime, I hope your book does very well.
	I suspect it's going to do exceptionally well.
	I'll owe a lot of that to you, Art.
	I appreciate it.
	All right.
	Well, you take care, and we'll see you next time.
	Thank you so much.
	Good night, Doctor.
	Good night.
	That phone number, Central Time, folks.
	Daytime, Central Time telephone number for the book is 763-236-9050.
	That's what I want to read.
	763-236-9050.

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