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Jan. 22, 2002 - Art Bell
03:14:29
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Dean Koontz - One Door Away From Heaven
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Welcome to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from January 22nd, 2002.
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's 24 time zones.
I'm Art Bell and the program carried in all those time zones, one way or the other, is Coast to Coast AM.
Great to be here.
I've got a few words about Mel's poll, which you heard last night, many of you for the first time, and a related story.
Now let me see, American Taliban is U.S.
bound.
John Walker Linden, an American who fought for the Taliban, began his journey back to the U.S.
today to face charges that he conspired to kill his countrymen.
A Californian who took up the cause of Islamic radicals.
Lynn was airlifted off the Navy assault ship USS Bataan in the Arabian Sea and headed home.
The FBI has descended on Enron.
Well, well, well, well.
Amid allegations of document shredding, while shareholders are lining up to sue the fallen energy giant, ask the federal judge to bar the company and its former auditor from destroying any more records.
So Enron is working now its way up the list of stories.
You know, now the second most important story.
Began just the way Watergate did.
Don't know if it's going the same direction, but it certainly is warming up just like it, isn't it?
A Palestinian gunman fired on Israelis waiting at a Jerusalem bus stop Tuesday, fatally wounding two people and injuring 14 others.
And so it goes on and on and on and on and on.
Mel's Hole last night.
I had hundreds and hundreds of emails today.
Fascinated with the story last night.
Now there really is nothing to add.
Mel did a follow-up interview, and the military still has possession, according to Mel, of his hole.
And Mel has had some pretty weird things happen to him and some pretty hard times since returning.
And, of course, he did return from Australia.
But there's really nothing new to tell you about the hole regarding its fate, save what you heard at the end that it's in the hands of the military, not Mel.
Of course, he's going to be buried in the hole.
That was one deal that he managed to cut when he turned the hole over.
This is kind of an interesting story.
The world's deepest hole.
Rough schematic comparing relative dimensions of Earth's crustal thickness, depth of the Kola Well, and height of Mount McKinley.
I wish I could show this to you as a diagram.
This is from Alaska Science Forum on Russia's Kola Peninsula near the Norwegian border at about the same latitude as Prudhoe Bay.
The Soviets have been drilling a well since 1970.
It is now over 40,000 feet deep, making this the deepest hole on Earth.
Previous record holder was the Bertha Rogers Well in Oklahoma, a gas well that stopped at 32,000 feet, actually, when it struck molten sulfur.
It is not oil nor gas being sought from the Ecola Well, but an understanding instead of the nature of the Earth's crust itself.
The U.S.
began a similar investigation called Project Moho.
Bet you didn't know that.
In 1961, the project, which was intended to penetrate the shallow crust under the Pacific Ocean off Mexico, was abandoned in 1966 because of lack of funding.
Hmph!
You would think, wouldn't you, that something as interesting as the very Earth we stand upon And what lies beneath our feet, at great depths unknown to science or anybody else, would be of intense interest and would be funded, wouldn't you?
I mean, what do we know?
We know more about the moon than we know about what's way down there.
Of course, that was part of the fascination of Mel's Hole.
The whole story is that we don't know what lies down beneath us.
Anyway, it claims in this article, in the Alaska Science Forum, it is possible to draw a reasonable cross-section of the Earth based purely on remote, geophysical, largely seismic methods.
In other words, you make a kaboom, or there's an earthquake, and they sort of get a picture of what they think might be down there based on that seismic activity, whether it's man-made or otherwise.
But digging down to take a look compares with studies made on the surface in the way that exploratory surgery compares for example with taking an x-ray you don't really know what's in there not really not until you go in and so again uh... with the deepest hole we know about except for the one in oklahoma that stopped at thirty two thousand feet would be the soviet hole at forty thousand mixed in would be
Hundreds of emails that I got regarding Mel's hole.
And again, there is really nothing new to tell you.
You know, the hole is in the hands of the gov.
But one of the responses concerned a remark that somebody made, I think somebody fast blasted me or maybe I didn't have that, then emailed me that somebody should take a cat and throw it down Mel's hole and see what happens.
Of course, a horribly cruel suggestion, which I noted, incidentally, at the time of the show last night.
But apparently this man got to thinking about a cat that should be dropped into Mel's hole.
And he made up what he thought would be a representative sound of a cat going into Mel's hole, whether it jumped or was dropped into.
And so, the following is his short and quick rendition of what it might sound like if a cat were to descend at terminal velocity into Mel's hole.
it would sound he thinks something like this
uh...
he he he he uh... which i thought
was kind of cute now uh...
yeah i think it's the last little are out within in echo that gets me
it's it's it's bad enough the first part where the cat has taken the long ride
or take a long ride kitty but then uh...
the second little one just really gets me
Listen, here it comes, one more time.
should a cat descend at terminal velocity in the Mel's hole here would be the
the actual resulting audio All right
a Scientist says that he is this comes from the LA Times. I
should always give you the source here a scientist says He has discovered a tiny island submerged off the central California coast more than 16,000 years after it slipped from view during the waning years of the last ice age.
Well, well, well, the island, a little more than a mile in length, lies 400 feet underwater, about a dozen miles from shore.
It poked no more than 30 feet above the waves during The last ice age, when the continental-sized ice sheets that kept much of the Earth began to melt, raising global sea levels.
At that time, the four channel islands off Santa Barbara, San Miguel, Santa Rosa, Santa Cruz, and Anacaba were formed a single larger island called Santa Rosé.
That's interesting.
So, all over the world, we are discovering things that were once above water, And they're now below water.
Some of them very ancient, some of them possibly being very ancient civilizations, and... Well, I don't know, I just think that's pretty interesting, since if we were here before, and had built some sort of civilization, whether it had been technical or non-technical, fact is, it's history, And apparently it's happened again, and again, and again, and again, and we keep discovering these little hints of what might be there.
You may recall Mark Hazelwood on the program, Lee Hazelwood's son, who talked about Planet X, some call Nibiru, some call Planet X, some people, you know, is it a myth?
Maybe not.
Maybe not.
And I've got an ABC News Science article here, which I have posted for you on my website, that you can read in depth.
So if you thought what Mark Hazelwood was saying was bull, then perhaps you might want to read a little bit of this article.
It is on my website right now.
It's a dated article.
Astronomers may have found hints of a massive Distant, still unseen object at the edge of the solar system, perhaps a tenth planet, perhaps a failed companion star that appears to be shoving comets toward the inner solar system from an orbit about three trillion miles away.
Hey, gee, does that sound familiar?
Huh?
Huh.
Two teams of scientists, one in England, one at the University of Louisiana at Lafayette, independently report this conclusion based on the highly elliptical orbits of so-called long-period comets that originate from an icy cloud of debris far, far beyond Pluto.
Said the University of Louisiana physicist Daniel Whitmer, we were driven to this by rejecting everything else we could think of.
In other words, they look at clumps of comets that are sent our way by this mass out there, and nothing else works.
So, this is again ABC News Science, and very clearly it's suggesting that scientists now believe there may be a 10th planet, or their words, not mine.
You can go read it for yourself.
A failed companion star that would be a failed companion star what
to our star right who
so if you thought uh... what mark hazelwood said was uh...
complete bs then
you may wish to uh...
sale over to my website at our bill dot com under what's new
you will find uh... a number of new things as you should insert a column
And that would be a story from 1999, ABC News, entitled, A Tenth Planet?
And then beneath that, you're going to find a photograph which I really want you to see.
Drake Stern sends the following image.
This image was taken by an employee, allegedly, of a classified military facility in the Pacific Northwest sometime this month.
So it's a new photograph.
We have no more information.
No official comment was available.
And base officials, of course, deny any awareness of any unusual activity.
However, if you'll take a look at the photograph, quite clearly it's some sort of a military tower.
uh... with military stuff on it on a building and above it you will see a classic uh... disc uh... classic uh... ufo and so if this photograph is real and they don't have any awareness of this then i am afraid for our lives for these are the people who were supposedly defending us against you know whatever bad guys on the other side of the world people who blow stuff up crash airplanes into us Whatever is out there, whatever danger, that'd be our military.
It protects us, right?
They kill people and break things and do their job.
Except maybe when it comes to something like we have in this photograph.
Now, there's no way I can warrant the authenticity of any photograph ever these days, but you can get pretty close.
This one looks pretty good.
So that's the second item what's new right now
and you might want to read a thirteen-year-old uh... dream and any number of new things that are in there
i've got a couple of photos that i'm also holding on to uh...
with regard to cnl attempt for some check on their authenticity
uh... before we put them up pretty wild photographs indeed all right i've got
more in a moment if you will stay right where you are uh...
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You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
See, I think there are more secrets out there.
I think Fannie, Freddie, the banks are probably in deeper trouble than we are led to believe.
You have to either say these are just incompetent people, or they're following an ideology, or maybe even more nefarious, a game plan.
That's what I think is happening.
I don't think that they're stupid people.
I think they have a different agenda than we do.
Now we take you back to the night of January 22nd, 2002, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Japan has just announced plans to develop a satellite-filled...
old.
With all kinds of solar panels that would beam energy back to the Earth.
What an idea!
The National Space Development Agency, which hopes to launch an experimental version of the satellite between 2005 and 2007, has asked two teams of private companies to submit design proposals by the end of January.
The satellite would be put into orbit By NASDA, that's N-A-S-D-A.
NASDA's H-2A rocket, which had its maiden launch last month, or a similar sized rocket, it would be able to generate, get this now, 10 kilowatts to 1 megawatt of power.
This is just to try it, you see.
They hope to develop a practical version of a space-based solar power generation system as early as 2020.
So what they would do is they would collect gigantic amounts of solar energy, which of course is available outside the atmosphere.
And then I believe, although it's not said here, you'd have to read the article in detail, that they would probably attempt to microwave all of that electricity back to Earth.
It's an interesting proposition with a few what-ifs attached to it.
Like what if the path of the satellite were to wander?
And I'm told, no problem, but, you know, I read Sunstroke.
Remember that?
It was kind of an interesting book about the possibility of a satellite that would collect energy, massive energy, and microwave it to Earth.
And it is microwave energy, you know, just like it comes out of your microwave oven.
Naturally, if a satellite of that sort should begin to drift, It could conceivably, in the science fiction version of this horror story, begin to sort of cook people along the way.
As being in a microwave oven, as it traversed your path, if you were unlucky enough to be below it, you would be sizzled like a steak, cooked alive.
The Japanese are bound and determined to give this a shot, so it'll be interesting to see what happens.
I'm holding on to a story about anthrax spores.
I guess you've heard about that, right?
Back in the 90s, during a turbulent period of labor complaints and recriminations among rival scientists.
It seems as though lab specimens of the anthrax spores Ebola virus and other pathogens disappeared from the Army's Biological Warfare Research Facility.
As of right now, nobody knows what happened to this stuff.
Now, a lot of people speculate, well, it must have died, no matter what.
But they do have some evidence of a scientist in there working late at night because he left some strange messages on the computer.
working on things like like anthrax so I tell ya.
Just go on.
Ebola virus and anthrax.
Great.
Just great.
came by today cause he was telling everyone in town
all the lonesome he'd just found and the reasoning
of his latest flame got a surprise for you coming up in a moment
you're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks
tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 22nd, 2002
and the reasoning of his latest flame
Though I smiled, the tears inside were a burning I wished him luck and then he said goodbye
He was gone but still his words kept returning For there's a mister for me to...
So get down 26 miles away To live the victory!
They're tight work for anyone, even the maid, who could hold me to my knees.
26 miles so near, yet far.
I'd swim with just some water wings in my guitar.
I could lean, flutter, wing, flutter, leap the guitar.
For romance, romance, romance, romance.
26 miles across the sea Santa Catalina is a-waitin' for me Santa Catalina, the island of romance A tropical heaven out in the ocean covered with trees and dirt If I have to swim, I'll You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time, the night featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 22nd, 2002.
In just a moment, we're going to have big news on Mars.
stay right where you are.
Now we take you back to the night of January 22, 2002 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
On All right, there's big news on Mars coming right up top of the hour.
Dean Koontz, a world-renowned author.
Dean Koontz is going to be here right now.
There is big news on Mars, and who else with it but Richard C. Hoagland, one-time advisor to Walter C. Cronkite, NASA, Angstrom Science Award winner.
Here he is from the mountains of New Mexico.
Richard, what's going on?
How could you do that to that poor kitty?
That's not that funny.
Anyway, yes, there is extraordinary news.
Yesterday, Leonard David, my old friend, used to write for a number of space publications in Washington and covered our press conferences, and now is working for space.com, put out a remarkable story that Odyssey, Mars Odyssey, the spacecraft launched last April and arrived in Mars orbit in December and has been aerobraking into its
final orbit over the last few weeks.
Yes, I haven't heard much about it lately.
Well, because it was in this prep phase where they basically were dipping into the atmosphere
and slowing it down and narrowing the orbit and basically circularizing
at a little over 200 miles altitude, about 250-some miles.
I did hear that they had a little tech trouble, but I guess they got that iron out so it was all well with it.
Well, they've had a problem with one of the radiation measuring instruments called Maria, or Marie, and they are not going to troubleshoot that until they are in the proper orbit.
And what they're going to do in the next few days is to release a high-gain antenna and the instrument boom for the gamma-ray spectrometer, which is going to measure In essence, the presence of water underneath the surface, close to the top of the soil.
Right.
And that should go smoothly if everything on the spacecraft is working.
And they say that everything else is working extraordinarily well.
Good.
But Leonard David came out yesterday with this story by Stephen Saunders, who is the project scientist for the mission, that over the next six weeks, during the first month or six weeks of the science operations, Yes.
Odyssey's going to start looking at high priority targets.
Right.
And they're going to look at, for instance, the potential landing areas for the 2003 rover missions that are going in the next time Mars is closest to us, which happens to be 2003.
We're going to send two little rovers, bigger than the ones that were sent with Pathfinder.
Right.
But not as big as some of the ones they're going to send later.
And they'll be landed like Pathfinder in these tetrahedral airbags.
And that will be very interesting to watch, because it's where they're going to land them.
He says, this is quoting Saunders now, we've got a number of other high priority targets that are of great interest to people in general.
These include the top of Olympus Mons, that's that huge shield volcano, which is the size of Kansas and about 16 miles high.
Dallas Marineris, which is this 3,000 mile long canyon that stretches across a quarter of Mars.
Two miles deep in someplace that makes the Grand Canyon look like a rivulet.
And, drumroll please, the so-called face on Mars.
A high priority target for NASA?
Isn't that, as the church lady would say, special?
Isn't that special, yes.
Now, how do you suppose this has happened?
Now, as we know, there's been Some changes at NASA, you know, some of the people in high
positions are now gone, other people are there and things have changed a little bit.
But I mean, certainly the phase on Mars was never a high priority if anything.
It was as low as they could make it.
It was, if you really push us, you know, we don't think it's interesting, it's an anomaly of nature or whatever, it's just not interesting, and all of a sudden it's a high priority.
How can that be?
Michael Malin, you know, the principal investigator on Mars Surveyor, which is the other spacecraft currently orbiting Mars, taking really neat pictures, you know, he put like 10,000 on a list of 10,000 targets.
Yeah.
You can't get lower than 10,000.
And here we are, Saunders.
New team, new spacecraft, based, by the way, at a new place.
New priority.
The FEMUS instrument, which is the imaging and infrared instrument that's going to take these pictures, combination of heat images and spectral data composition, and visual information, is a whole new broom.
It's a whole new team, and it's based, the FEMUS group is based at the University of Arizona.
Not Michael Malin and his little crowd down there in San Diego.
All right, Richard, what will this high-tech imagery render to us?
In other words, what will we see?
Well, first of all, before I get to that, think about this.
Here is a place on Mars that has been photographed more often than any other single place.
If you count up all the images of Cydonia we've now got, it's like dozens.
And yet everybody just keeps saying, there's nothing there.
There's nothing there.
We're going back!
We're going back!
High priority!
High priority!
Now it's high priority!
So, you know, where... Is there something wrong with this picture?
Yes.
Yeah, of course there is.
You know, we're not dummies out here.
This is Double Speak, you know, New Speak, or Wellian Speak, whatever you want to call it.
Some political force, and I really think it's this audience, I think it's the folks out there, you boys and girls and everybody listening to us tonight, I think you can take extraordinary pride in forcing this space agency to make this a high priority.
Now we get to the good stuff, because unlike a just black and white visual image, this camera, this instrument called Themis, which is named after the Greek goddess of justice, I told somebody that this afternoon, and they doubled over in laughter at the incredible irony.
The goddess of justice is intervening to get us real data on Cydonia.
Finally!
Well, alright, come on.
Do it now.
What will it give us?
What it will give us is a thermal image.
You've seen these high-res satellite recon shots, you know, of the Soviet Union, or of test targets in the United States, and some of them show you, for instance, there's one neat shot that shows an airstrip with, like, the tarmac where the jets used to be parked, and there are no jets there, but there are little outlines on the black asphalt showing where the jets were parked, and the shadows kept the ground cool.
And the parking lot was warm, not the parking lot, but the tarmac.
And so the CIA could literally count the number of Soviet MiGs that were there, that had been moved before the satellite came over, because of the shadowing.
That's what steamers will do.
At a resolution of about 15, 16 years, something like that.
Comparable to Vikings' visual imagery at Cydonia, which was damn good.
And what it will tell us is what happens to the ground when the sun goes down.
Now, ordinary materials, you know, if I take these kind of scans of Earth, you can tell the difference between asphalt and concrete and grass and mountains and deserts.
Absolutely.
Sure.
By the cooling rate.
The heat signature, yes.
Down below.
Yes.
What we're expecting, those of us who think there's a lot of artificial stuff down there, Is that it will cool quickly.
It doesn't have much mass.
And the natural background will cool slowly.
So you should get a differential that will make the artificial stuff stand out like a sore thumb.
It will be colder than the background.
Now, if that should occur, in and around the face, what do you think that NASA would conclude?
Well, I don't know, but let me tell you what I think is going to occur on the face.
I'm just deferring the answer for a moment.
We've had data going back to 1988 from Mark Carlotto and a guy named Stein, I forget his first name, who when Mark was at TASC, this independent research group up in the Northeast, they did what was called a fractal analysis of the Cydonia region.
The same kind of technique that was used to find Saddam Hussein's tank camouflaged in the The Iraqi and Kuwaiti desert during Desert Storm.
Right.
And the way it works is that you can't really hide artificial stuff because it doesn't look like a sand dune.
You can put a tarp over it and you can sprinkle sand on it, but the computer looking at the pixels will be able to pick out the artificial signature of what's hiding under the tarp, even if you try to camouflage it.
The military pixel people.
You got it.
So applying this technique, which is the first time it was ever done, Carlisle looked at the Viking data.
And lo and behold, the face on Mars has the most non-fractal, whopping signature of anything in the Cydonia region.
In fact, in terms of numbers, it's more non-natural, non-background than tanks in the desert during Desert Storm.
Now, my theory, and I actually published this in one of the other editions of Monuments, an earlier edition, was that this non-fractal, meaning non-natural background signature, could only come if there was artificial stuff.
Right.
On the face, or the face was built of artificial stuff.
It was basically a huge construct, a huge building.
It's not a sculpted mesa, like everybody else has assumed.
Well, this new mission, Odyssey, with the Themis camera, in taking the thermal scan imagery, should confirm or deny that hypothesis.
It should test it.
And my bet is, because the fractal data is there, It looks artificial, but when we get the thermal scans, if they're honest, if they're going to play straight with us, we will confirm that there's artificial things down there that are cooling at a very different rate than the natural background deserts.
Now that you have that out, again I ask, if it turns out that way, how do you think NASA will analyze it?
Well, I think all they'll say in this first round is it's anomalous.
You know their favorite word?
Yes.
I think this is part of time-release aspirin.
I think it's 2002.
Alright.
And I think that Arthur, my dear friend Arthur Clarke, has been trying to tell us for a year.
Oh sure.
That something like this was going to happen.
Large life on Mars.
Large life on Mars and all that.
The day that Odyssey left Earth, which was April 7th of last year, Arthur sent an email, which I reproduced in my latest edition of Monuments, To the project manager at Lockheed Martin that built the spacecraft.
And he said, and I quote, you know this is like burned in my brain by now, he says, I won't believe in artifacts until I can see the license numbers.
Go find them.
Which is cute, cute, cute Arthur Code.
Sure.
Then we have something else that really was weird.
Did you know that this is the only mission that NASA has ever commissioned a symphony to?
A symphony.
Vangelis performed, let me reach over and get the tape, it was published, it was broadcast on PBS, I think in December, a beautiful, gorgeous concert at the Acropolis in Athens called Methodia.
And it says, I'm holding the official videotape in my hand, it says, Vangelis, Methodia, music for the NASA mission 2001 Mars Odyssey.
Mythodia?
Myth?
Mythology?
Yes, of course.
Symbolism?
Yes, of course.
Okay, now, putting all these dots together, my projection is that Dr. Saunders is basically saying, we're going to start this train moving.
We're going to take these images, high priority, we're going to put them out, and he also says something very important.
He says they're going to try to put them out as fast as possible.
Let me read you his exact quote.
Please.
Which is so cute, alright?
He says, there's always a sense, true or not, that we're not getting it, the data, out fast enough.
It's not always the fault of any particular investigator or mission.
It just has to do with planning and money.
We're going to try and solve that by giving out what may be the most interesting stuff in general as soon as we can, he says.
Well, it doesn't cost a lot to do that on the net, so...
Well, we're obviously going to ask some questions now.
We hope that everybody else will.
Like, when do you take these images, and when do you publish?
Well, the most interesting question of all, though, Richard, is, and I'm not sure how to answer it, with all of a sudden the face being one of the highest priorities, did we, in fact, motivate them to make it a high priority, or I mean, they've always shown signs of never particularly wanting to listen to us, in the slightest.
So, maybe they've decided on their own that it's a very high priority, suddenly.
Well, remember what my Bushies are telling me.
You know, my sources close to this administration.
And remember what George's father tried to do.
He tried to organize a manned expedition to Mars.
And the NASA then, Dan Golden, cut him off the knees.
I recall.
He even reached out to have me, through CNN, speak for him that night when he made the announcement.
I recall, yes.
And I couldn't do that.
I've been saying for several months now that if this Trenker was what I thought it was, that this president, the son of the other guy, would take up where his father left off.
And one of the first indications we had when I was told that it was Dick Cheney who basically mandated, months ago, before April, That the new face image by Surveyor, that full-on face image that's so amazing, that you and I have had interesting disagreements about, that that was mandated by none other than the Vice President.
Now, we have the firing of Dan Golden, we have Sean O'Keefe, the new Administrator, saying he wants to return NASA to the glory days of Jim Webb, with kennedy's kick-ass you know administrator
well i i don't know if goldman was fired uh... all i do you do all you have i mean what i heard of
course that's all you ever hear is your cover story by sources say he was
fired they do over policy differences
and now suddenly we have the project scientist about it the thing
we're gonna make the faith of my own i've heard already
well right out immediately so then that was that that you one could at least
speculate that i think that was the policy difference so if you'd like
reading the key leads back during the old kremlin days yeah we didn't have a bug in the uh... you know in the kremlin
you had to figure out what they were doing by the number of trips that
they did a job but that's the way that you know
this game is played no i think we are on the eve of something interesting
you know arthur's comments official concert
pictures out immediately and the kind of picture we have never had art
this kind of data which not only is the thermal data but also composition
This gadget, which has 15 different spectral bands, will actually be able to read the surface at this high resolution and tell us whether we're looking at silicates or aluminum or glass.
Well, I mean, if they find all of that, or even a substantial portion of it, Richard, I just wonder how they're going to deal with it.
Anomalous will not be, at that point, sufficient.
Well, it will be the first step.
And remember, if this is time-release aspirin, you know, all about Brookings, getting people ready for the inevitable, about big admission, C. Bassett's disclosure with a capital D, you've got to get pregnant slowly.
You know, it takes nine months to do that in the real world.
So you start by taking images and putting them out there, making no comment, and they're just as anomalous as hell.
And then you wait to see, you know, you put your finger in the wind and see how it blows.
Do people freak out?
You know, are cats and dogs living together, all that thing?
Or do people just say, oh, that's interesting.
That confirms what we suspected all along.
Well, I think people would say, gee, now let's have a manned mission to Mars and let's go to the past.
Well, they'll obviously demand more images.
I mean, I don't only want to see the face with this gadget.
I want to see all of Cydonia because of all the other structures down there and the geometry we've seen and the evidences of pyramidal things and tetrahedral things and stunning, you know, regularity and all that.
So if this opens the door, I mean, this is an incredible breakthrough, I think.
High priority for Cydonia.
And again, keep in mind, this is a place that NASA has said officially, as of last spring, in May, when they put out that MGS image.
Right.
There's nothing there.
Well, wait a minute.
If there's nothing there, then why is it a high priority?
Why do you keep taking pictures?
You know, unless we're discussing our own actions.
In other words, if we have politically forced NASA to do this.
You know, though, I don't believe that, Richard.
I don't believe that.
Well, we have a lot of campaign.
You and I have not really gotten on the air and said, look, let's do something.
Yeah, I know.
I just don't think that we are the reason they are shifting the priority.
I think you're right.
They know something's going on.
They know something, and it may be... Remember what Gandhi, the great story that Gandhi used to tell?
He was sitting in a small, you know, key room in someplace in India.
What did he say?
And a whole bunch of Indians went rushing by, you know, with a cloud of dust and everything, Excuse him so quickly.
He says, quick, I have to go.
They're my people.
I have to go lead them.
So the people were leading his position.
And I think in this case, we have led for so many years that finally somebody's wising up that they can't keep it secret forever.
And maybe there has to be a methodology to finally go and lead.
Well, I think there's science behind the setting of the priority, not Politics, I would actually hope that to be true.
And if there is science behind it, then yes, this is a gigantic story, Richard.
Gigantic.
Which we will stay on top of.
Oh, yes, please.
I know that you come to us between working on the new movie, right?
Oh, I'm having so much fun with that.
Are you?
Is it fun?
It is delightful fun.
We are going to turn over our first Final pages, day after tomorrow.
The first final pages, yeah.
That's TV, alright.
The first final pages.
Well, it's because, you know, it's never over till it's over.
You'll have a lot of final versions.
We've got something that I'm really proud of, and Paul's really proud of, and I can't wait for Tom Mount at RKO, who called me this afternoon and said, what are you doing?
He said, the emails keep on coming!
When you get a working title for the movie, will you give it to me?
Of course!
And I will give you other updates.
I mean, this is going to be a kind of do it On Radio Process, where we let people know how this works.
All right.
And what other people need to do if they want to get to be part of the party, you've got to read Monuments, the 2001 edition.
And if you want to do that, my guys are offering now the book for free.
Real quick.
If you call and order the tape sets we've got, you know... Real quick, Richard.
1-800-350-46...
Good night.
Good night.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 22nd, 2002.
2002.
I.
Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing?
To have all these things in our memories?
I'm the innocent, the coward.
Why, why would you go, take this pain, on this trip, just for me?
Why, take a free ride, to the place, I must see, it's my dream?
Why, when I'm waiting for you, with my heart so true?
Tonight's program originally aired January 22nd, 2002.
Dean Koontz is a household word.
The Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time. Tonight's program originally
aired January 22, 2002. Dean Kuntz is a household word. His name is a household word. In a lot
of bookstores and even supermarkets, you will find not just Dean Kuntz books, but entire
Dean Kuntz sections.
Really, whole sections just devoted to Dean Kuntz.
Anyway, he's coming up in a moment.
When he was a senior in college, Dean Kuntz won an Atlantic Monthly Fiction competition, and has been writing ever since.
Now his more than 38 books are published in 38 languages, Worldwide sales over 250 million copies.
Wow!
A figure currently increases more than 17 million copies a year.
His newest novel, one in which I might add I mentioned, One Door Away from Heaven, is now available.
Eight of his novels have risen to number one on the New York Times hardcover bestseller list.
From the corner of his eye, Lightning, Midnight, Cold Fire, Hideaway, Dragon Tears, Intensity, and Soul Survivor, making him one of only about a dozen writers ever to have achieved that milestone.
Eleven of his books have risen to the number one position in paperback.
His books have also been major bestsellers in countries as diverse as Japan and Sweden.
He's written a screenplay for the film adaptation of his novel, Cold Fire.
He wrote and executive produced the Face of Fear for Warner Brothers CBS TV.
Phantoms, based on the author's screenplay, starring Peter O'Toole and Joanna Glenn, was released by Miramax Dimension in January of 68.
Intensity, which went to number one on the New York Times Best Seller list, was filmed by Peter Gruber's Mandalay.
As a miniseries for the Fox Network and aired initially in August of 97, Madeleine also produced a miniseries based on the novel, Soul Survivor, while ABC has produced a miniseries of the author's novel, Mr. Murder.
Dean Koontz was born and raised in Pennsylvania.
Graduated from Shippensburg State College, now Shippensburg University, and his job after graduation was with the Appalachian Poverty Program, where he was expected to counsel and tutor underprivileged children on a one-to-one basis his first day on the job.
He discovered the previous occupier of his position had been beaten up by the very kids that he'd been trying to help and had landed in the hospital for several weeks.
The following year was filled with some challenges, and Koontz was more highly motivated than ever to build a career as a writer.
He wrote nights and weekends, which he continued to do after leaving the poverty program and going to work as an English teacher in a suburban school district outside Harrisburg after he'd been a year and a half in that position.
His wife, Gerda, made him an offer he couldn't refuse.
She said, I'll support you for five years.
And if you can't make it as a writer in that time, you'll never make it.
Ha ha ha.
So he had five years to do it.
And, of course, the rest is history.
He did it.
Coming up in a moment, Dean Kuntz.
Coast to Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the
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Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
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Looking for the truth?
You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
See, I think there are more secrets out there.
I think Fannie, Freddie, the banks are probably in deeper trouble than we are led to believe.
You have to either say these are just incompetent people, or they're following an ideology, or maybe even more nefarious, a game plan.
That's what I think is happening.
I don't think that they're stupid people.
I think they have a different agenda than we do.
Now we take you back to the night of January 22, 2002, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Here, ladies and gentlemen, is Dean Kuntz.
Hi, Dean.
Hi, how are you tonight?
Oh, I'm so happy and honored to have you on the program.
Well, it's a great pleasure for me, too.
I began getting these emails I don't know.
A few weeks ago, saying, Oh my God, Aaron Dean Koontz's new book.
He mentions you on page whatever it was.
And I said, Huh?
And I said, In what context?
I started getting emails back and it was a good context.
So that sort of led me to you and the idea of having you on and all the rest of it.
So here you are.
Um, Dean, I don't know where to begin with you, except I guess, I guess I would ask what a lot of people would ask.
How do you write?
Would you classify yourself as a murder slash horror mystery writer?
I put a lot of slashes in it, but horror is in among them.
That's a word I I've always kind of rebelled against it.
I had an early publisher who labeled me.
Publishers are in a frenzy to label everything they publish because it's easily promotable with a label on it.
Oh, sure.
So, I say, like the new book, for instance, is suspense, adventure, story, comic, novel, bit of science fiction.
It's got everything in it but a recipe for crumb cake.
Oh, it's actually a bit of a step away from the norm for you, isn't it?
I'm always kind of stepping away from the North.
Publishers like you to do the same thing time after time after time, and I am a guy with a flapper as a kid, and I've maintained a low boredom threshold, so if I'm not entertaining myself every time I sit down here, I don't want to be doing this, so I have to be doing something different all the time.
Well, when I said horror, I mean a lot of what you've written is horrific.
Yes, that's absolutely true.
Some of it has that element.
When you sit down to write something like that, take me through how you construct it in your mind.
It's an incredibly mysterious process to me.
When I start a book, I usually don't know much more about it than I have a little bit of a premise, a little bit of an idea, and I usually have two characters that I'm going to throw together in a scene, and I know that opening scene.
For instance, One Door Away from Heaven, I knew it would have this disabled girl who was nine years old and had a deformed leg and hand, but was spunky and witty and going to be a lot of fun to listen to, and I knew in the same scene there was going to be this 28-year-old woman who was at the bottom of her life, who'd made a lot of wrong decisions, was trying to change her life and that in this meeting was
going to be one of those serendipitous encounters that changes lives.
And that's really about all I knew and I kind of begin that way and leap off a cliff and
hope to God it's going to land somewhere and make sense.
And so far for a lot of years it has.
How frequently, when you finish with a book, the final, final, final, and you send it off
to the publisher, do you know, what's your track record of knowing how big a hit what
you just sent off is going to be?
Or how many times have you been personally wrong?
Oh, in the early days, I was wrong time after time after time until it was depressing.
But, you know, I don't, a lot of writers try to scope the market or they try to perceive what's going to sell best.
and aim for it and I realize I have no capacity to do that and what I've got to do is please
me and then I just hope it's going to please somebody else.
I've been fortunate over the years that books either sell as well as the last one or sell
better.
There's been this steady upgrade on it and I want that to continue because I never want
to have to get on a scorecard.
Well, I know a lot of people now, of course, at this stage with your career, it says Dean Kuntz, they just buy it, period.
That's all there is to it.
They just buy it.
So you definitely get that.
This is a bit of a step away for you, almost into the paranormal.
I travel around that territory some, but this one deals with A lot of my books have such twists and turns, you get into talking about the storyline and you think, whoops, what am I going to give away?
Let's just say that there are two characters in this who have become essentially defenders of one of my main characters, and they're twins who were Las Vegas showgirls, the Spelkenfelder sisters they're called, and they're the ones who Make reference to you at one point in the book, because they've realized they're in the middle of a total Art Bell moment.
All right.
Your interests, obviously, based on some of the questions that you sent along that might be interesting, really, really do range far and wide.
You talk a lot about the possibility of parallel realities.
Do you believe that that may be the case?
There may be certainly our best theoretical physicists now think there are perhaps as many as 11 parallel dimensions and those would be parallel realities of some sort and we may soon reach parallel realities.
I'm told They're working very hard now on a quantum computer, and if you have a quantum computer, it may well be that the next step is into another dimension.
Well, my previous book, Before One Door, Away from Heaven, was one called From the Corner of His Eye, and it deals, although it takes you a long time in the book to recognize this, it deals with the concept of parallel realities, parallel worlds that are side-by-side.
I say in the book that I try to take things that are in quantum mechanics that we know because quantum mechanics works.
I mean we have television because quantum mechanics works.
We have the computers we have and the silicon chips because it's an application of quantum mechanics.
So we know that so much of quantum mechanics tells us is true of the world and one of the things that tells us is That there are an infinite number, in fact, of alternate realities side-by-side with ours that exist not as a different place in space or time, really, but exist simultaneously with ours and are beyond our comprehension to see.
When you start getting into theoretical physics, it begins to be overwhelming.
But let's, instead of trying to argue how or follow through the argument of how they show this, I just I find it interesting to accept that as a point and take off with it in a book.
I think what quantum mechanics tells us is very mechanistic.
They sort of tell us that every time an event could happen one, two, or three ways, for instance, every time a volcano could erupt or not erupt, if it erupts in this world yesterday, there's a world where it didn't erupt, and that these things continue to split off infinitely, almost on a second-by-second basis.
And the number of realities out there is beyond human comprehension.
There's realities in which Nazi Germany won World War II.
There's realities where I, probably a lot of them, where I didn't become a writer because I was too lazy or my wife didn't make me that offer.
And I had other lives.
And I found that as a fascinating concept for a book and worked on that.
I took it a step further because I think there is, for me, it seems the mechanistic idea That this happens mechanistically didn't work for me.
I theorized that since consciousness is the greatest power in the universe, and science has continuously showed us that, including quantum mechanics, that it may be that what splits off these parallel realities are conscious decisions that all of us make.
And that when we make a choice to do one thing or another that is of significant enough level, say a moral choice, I decide to rob a bank and so I do, but there's a world where I decide not to rob that bank.
It is in our choices that we make this infinite variety of universes.
I frequently interview Dr. Michio Kaku, who's a world-renowned physicist, co-inventor, or discoverer of string theory, heavy-duty guy.
He suggests that time travel might eventually be possible, and that if you were to be able to go back in time, Of course, the old paradox of you not being able to kill your grandfather or whatever, and that if you did, you'd just blink out.
He said the way that the law that might prohibit that would be a simple one.
It would be that if you did something like that, you would simply instantly create another bubble, another universe in which that never happened.
And so that's sort of right down the line of of what you're talking about, and that might be the one answer to the whole paradox problem.
I've heard that.
I've for years been trying to figure a way to put that into a story that reaches out to a large audience.
Really?
Yeah, I find that fascinating plot.
Let's say you go back and you kill your grandfather, and now you've not tampered with your future.
It still exists as it was, but you've created another one for yourself.
That's exactly correct.
And that there could be literally an infinite number of those, kind of like a bubble on a bubble on a bubble on a bubble, all separate little universes.
When I wrote about this, I started getting a lot of feedback on the previous book from people who said, I've had experiences that prove to me that there are parallel realities.
Because I said in the book, I suggested the way to think about them, because I have a character who can Move objects in this book between one parallel reality and
another very small thing that in a quarter actually, but And he can do little tricks
But then there's somebody later who can do more and I suggested if you think about these parallel realities as a
big block of sliced Swiss cheese if you take a
block of slices of Swiss cheese You're going to see that the holes sometimes line up and
you can see through two three four slices because the holes overlap
That's right.
And then ultimately you can't see, and he makes the argument, or he makes the statement that I can reach through to other realities and go a certain distance in that.
So I try to visualize it for readers of thinking all these infinite slices, which are each one another reality in which you exist, or don't.
You may have died in some of these realities, Jon.
It's hard to comprehend, but at least it begins to answer some questions that before we had no answer whatsoever for.
It was just sort of one of those, well, you have to have faith.
It is fascinating, and I suppose your work then is going to begin to reflect I once had a little personal experience.
This sounds terribly mundane, but when you think about it, as I have all my life since this happened, it argues for me the existence of these parallel realities.
When my wife and I were living in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania for a number of years, We rented an apartment and in this apartment there was a dinette area adjacent to the kitchen.
We got in a nice dining room suit and we were very proud of our first good furniture.
We were sitting at dinner one night and I dropped a fork.
in this apartment for three years and we were sitting dinner one night and I dropped a fork.
It fell alongside my chair and went under the table. When I pulled out my chair and
got down to look under the table I could not find the fork.
It had disappeared.
I crawled all over that room.
I searched behind the buffet.
I looked everywhere.
We never found that fork.
Gone.
Now, about a year or more went by, and we had guests at dinner.
Nothing like that ever happened again.
I tried to repeat it.
I threw silverware under there.
I threw everything under there.
Nothing at any angle would repeat that event.
But about a year or so later we had some guests at dinner and the gentleman dropped his napkin.
It slid off his lap.
And he said, oh, I dropped my napkin.
And he pulled out his chair and went down to get it.
And his napkin, he couldn't find it.
And then I told him the story of what happened to my fork.
And we spent a larger part of that dinner with him repeatedly trying to lose another napkin, fork, whatever he could.
I'd never written or spoken of that incident, but after I wrote From the Corner of His Eye, I got fascinating stories from people saying, I have had incidents in my life that tell me there is somewhere else that things can cross over to, and the stories have just piled up ever since From the Corner of His Eye came out, to the point where, and they're very intelligent, very coherent stories, and I've come to believe them.
Oh, I know.
Believe me, I know.
I get the very same stories.
People are, of course, hesitant to tell them, really, to anybody else other than, for example, yourself or myself, because they know that other people just are not going to listen, but what you've said is absolutely right.
Things, occasionally, those Swiss cheese holes line up for just, perhaps, an instant, and strange things either happen or can be seen.
Now, you said, out of the corner of your eye, We've been discussing on this program a great deal of what's seen from the corner of your eye at just the edge of your peripheral vision, and many thousands of my listeners have been seeing these
I will call them shadow people.
Because that's the only name we have.
And when I get back, I'll explain.
We've got to take a break here.
Shadow people.
The corner of your eye.
Other dimensions.
Bet you didn't think that's where we were headed with Dean Kuntz, did you?
But maybe we're headed that way with most thinking people now.
Because maybe the world is headed that way.
I'm Art Bell.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 22nd, 2002.
🎵 Everybody's looking for something. Some of them want to use you. Some of them want to get used by you. Some of
them want to abuse you. Some of them want to be abused.
🎵 🎵 Some of them want to use you. 🎵
Some of them want to get used by you.
Some of them want to abuse you.
But some of them want to be abused The heart of the city streets is beating
Right from the neon turned the dark to day The heart of the city speaks to me
Right from the neon turns the dark to day It's too hard to take the sleeping
We had to get out before the magic got away In the morning with the night, playing in the shadows
I'll keep you at night till the morning light Keep you running, running through the night
You're looking so good girl, can't you turn?
You and me on the town, we're letting off steam You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier
Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 22nd, 2002.
Dean Koontz is here this evening.
He'll be right back.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 22nd, 2002.
Bing Coons is here tonight, and we were talking about alternate reality parallel universes,
Almost a year ago now, Dean, I had this person call in on the air, as we just have a lot of open lines here, and they said, you know Art, I've been seeing these Weird things in the corner of my eye, my peripheral vision that would just move, and I knew there was something there, movement, but I really couldn't quite detect what it was.
But now, of late, I've been seeing these things full-on, and they are... They only sort of instantly appear, and then quickly disappear, or appear surprised, and take off like crazy, walk through walls, whatever.
I call them shadow people, for lack of a better name.
And that set off a landslide.
I had thousands and thousands of emails from people who have begun to see what, for lack of a better name, they're calling shadow people.
And I wonder if the Swiss cheese that you were talking about occasionally lines up not just to either let things drop through or appear, but to let us get a visual look-see at something we would not normally see.
I wasn't expecting it, and it's so interesting because of all the responses I've had to the book that I wrote about alternate worlds from the corner of his eye, the most often expressed stories that I get from people that they believe show them that there are alternate realities have to do with this very thing, what you would call shadow people.
I've gotten just tons of them.
Almost always, they begin with, I know this will sound crazy, and they give me their bonus E-Days, who they are, and how normal members of the community they are.
They go the gamut of people seeing, they frequently report seeing, often in their own home, when they write me about it anyway, that they walk into a living room and they see a person they don't know, and of course panic sets in, and they The other person sees them.
Yes.
And this look of surprise overcomes the other person.
Yes.
And then they're gone.
Yes!
That's exactly correct.
That's exactly correct.
Oh, God.
And some of them have said to me, I think that I, for a moment, encountered a glimpse of another reality where I don't live in this house, where somebody else lives in this house.
And if you think about this, this could be where all of our legendary sightings of ghosts,
or many of them, may actually originate.
They may have references.
One woman wrote me that she...
This one is curious.
Two particular ones come to mind.
One woman wrote me about she had been in a pet shelter and she had seen this particular
dog that was mutt and very unusual coloration and everything else, and she was very drawn
to it, and she considered adopting it, and then decided she couldn't do that.
She just didn't have room in her life for a dog right now.
So she went home, and a few days later she was walking through her living room, and she
saw this dog, and it...
The same dog, same coloration, out of the corner of her eye, essentially, and when she
turned there was this dog, and it was holding this tug toy in its mouth, a shake toy, and
it was shaking its toy, and it looked at her, and then ran out of the room.
She searched the house and couldn't find the dog, and convinced herself that, because she hadn't adopted it, The dog had been put to death and what she had seen was the ghost of the dog.
Oh boy.
And she became so overwhelmed with this, by this, that she went back to the pet shelter to find out had the dog been put to death.
But it had not been put to death.
And by divers means she managed to get the name of the people who had adopted the dog and she had to convince herself the dog was still alive.
She went there to see those people, and when the woman opened the door, the dog came to the door holding the very tug toy she had seen in her house.
And she has been trying to figure that out ever since, and what she thinks is that somewhere, in some parallel world, she took that dog home, and she got a glimpse of that world where that dog lived in her house.
And I can't find a different explanation for it, so I find that sort of thing fascinating.
One woman wrote me to tell me, this isn't the fighting of a person, but this is particularly interesting to me.
She said that her husband had died a couple of years before, and they had bought their dream house many years before he died, probably 20 years before he died.
And he had been a lover of Art Deco.
And when they bought this house, he wanted to do the house in Art Deco decor, and she was not a lover of Art Deco.
And when push came to shove, they went her direction and decorated the house.
She said a year or two after he had died, she was one day walking through a room and
suddenly recognized that the furnishings weren't the furnishings of her house or anything she
was familiar with.
When she turned and stopped and looked at what she was walking past, the room was furnished
in Art Deco.
She was so frightened by it, she ran out of the room and called a daughter.
When the daughter came over, of course, the room was as it always has been.
She was convinced that for a moment she saw the life where they decorated the house the
way her husband wanted it.
As the program proceeds, I get messages on my computer from my listeners.
It's kind of a neat service.
Chris in Palmer, Alaska, listening right now asks, if our choices create other realities.
And where the hell does the power needed to create those realities come from?
And you wrote something that I really powerfully agree with.
You suggest there may be evidence that consciousness may be the most powerful force in the universe.
This is probably my favorite topic right now, because I have been doing experiments, probably rogue experiments, in consciousness for a few years now pretty scary stuff uh... which i'll tell you about it you can you can see what you think uh... it began my you know innocently uh... i thought well let's see if millions of minds can you know affect the weather and so we look at several drought stricken areas florida texas uh... up in uh... vancouver uh... british columbia and
I tell you, I had the entire audience concentrate, millions of people, and within hours, with no forecast of rain whatsoever in these areas, we produced rain.
In one case, so much rain that there was terrible flooding.
Then we tried a series of experiments with people who were ill.
Mass experiments.
Again, millions of people.
Each one of them declares and would sign papers that they felt the effect, and it brought them up out of a near-death situation.
You know, one had a heart attack, one had embolisms in the brain, and all very interesting stuff.
Then, along came Princeton University, which have this incredible study, Dean, that you might look into.
They have What they call eggs.
These are computers placed throughout the world, and they all report back to a mainframe computer at Princeton.
And for years now, without our knowledge, we're just finding out about it, Princeton has been monitoring these eggs.
They're just computers sitting out there, spitting out random numbers.
They are random number generators.
And they report back to Princeton any non-randomness.
And what they've done is they've watched world events.
And this is going to give you something to think about.
They have noticed that during large, breaking news, world-type events, there's this incredible spike in non-randomness.
These random computers all of a sudden start getting non-random.
And they have graphed this.
They've got graphs of it.
The one for 9-1-1, for example, shows that four hours prior to the 9-1-1 event, and then for about two or three hours following the 9-1-1 event, there was this incredible spike, just like coming right out of the noise from zero to a hundred.
And it began actually four hours prior to the event itself, which gives one a little bit of pause.
And I thought, boy, is that incredible.
So I got in touch with Dean Radin.
Sort of unofficially, who's involved with the project.
And I thought, let's have the audience give it a shot.
I started to get scared of these experiments because I said to myself, you know, I don't know what the hell I'm doing, and I don't know what I'm messing with.
But I thought, nevertheless, let's give this one a try.
And Dean Radin was involved with the Princeton deal, and so I had the audience do a concentration at a specific time on the program.
Trying to affect the mainframe at Princeton.
Well, we got back a graph that just blew our socks off.
I mean, we just blew it right off the chart at the appointed time.
Came right up out of the noise, and it just went right up to 100, and boom!
Right off the charts.
Somewhere in there is the beginning of something, and I don't know what.
I've kind of stopped doing this because I'm afraid of the repercussions.
I'm sort of afraid that at the end of one of these is going to be, you know, somebody saying, ah, but you didn't read the fine print.
Yes, you held the hurricane off the coast for a while, but look, it did build up to a Category 5 and killed gazillions of people and you did it or your audience did it
but a few experiments there for you in in the power of consciousness I
Think you're right. I think it's the most powerful force in the universe and it's what we will discover and what lies
ahead for us What do you think? Well?
What what you're saying is really another thing confirmed by quantum mechanics which among many other things in
quantum mechanics?
they've shown repeatedly and that Observation of an experiment. I'm sure you've discussed
this with people in the past observation of an experiment Results in a different outcome than if this experiment is
Run without observation and the results looked at later That implies that the will of the person watching the experiment has an effect upon it, and we're talking about experiments on the subatomic level now.
So, if willpower can affect the action of atomic particles, then that has some amazing implications.
What it says to me is, think about how completely that relates to what basically all faith systems tell us.
That the universe is a creative place.
That it is an act of will.
It was an act of creation.
And that we have a reflection of that will within ourselves.
That we've been granted free will and the power to shape our destiny.
And that's really what a lot in quantum mechanics is showing us.
In fact, some quantum physicists will say that on the subatomic level Matter doesn't really act like matter.
It acts like, some of them say like dreams, and some of them say like thoughts, because they're struggling to put a description to it.
I feel very strongly that consciousness, the ability of the mind to shape our own lives, the power of, it sounds trite, but the power of positive thinking.
I am not surprised that you would say they tracked on these random generation computers
they track links to major negative events because I've sometimes had the feeling that
when societies get very negative that they create negative circumstances for themselves
and I think it's almost imperative that we be as optimistic as we can because I do believe
that to some degree or other as quantum mechanics shows us we shape our destiny and that can
have profound consequences for all our futures if we get as a society by the millions and
millions into a very negative state of mind.
I agree.
So you would agree then that this power of the mind, this power of consciousness, is really both positive and negative.
Like all power, I guess.
Oh yeah, I think it has both.
I just, while we're talking here, pawed something up.
It'll take me one minute to read it to you, but it's kind of funny because I wrote it several years ago in a book of photographs.
They were photographs of graveyards, and I was asked... They weren't scary photographs.
They were actually quite beautiful.
They were European graveyards full of gorgeous sculpture.
And I was asked to write an introduction to this, and I did.
And in that, I talked about whether I believe in life after death, and I wrote this, which I just pawed open here because here's where our discussion left it.
I wrote, I believe in life after death.
To me, eternal life is not an article of faith, but an even more obvious fact than any of the laws of physics.
The universe is an efficient creation.
Matter becomes energy.
Energy becomes matter.
One form of energy is converted into another form.
The balance is forever changing, but the universe is a closed system from which no particle of matter or wave of energy is ever lost.
Nature not only loathes waste, but forbids it.
The human mind and spirit, at their noblest, can transform the material world for the better.
We can transform the human condition, lifting ourselves from a state of primal fear when we are dwelling, caved and shuttered at the sight of the moon, to a position from which we can contemplate eternity and hope to understand the works of God.
Light cannot change itself into stone by an act of will, and stone cannot build itself into temples.
Only the human spirit can act with volition and consciously change itself.
It's the only thing in all creation that is not entirely at the mercy of forces outside itself, and it is therefore the most powerful and valuable form of energy in the universe, and that's why I believe it has to go on after death.
There you are.
I interviewed this really interesting lady a few weeks ago, Pam Reynolds.
She was on 48 Hours.
48 Hours did a big piece on her.
She had an embolism in her brain.
You might have seen it or heard about it.
And, uh, the embolism was, you know, like a balloon ready to burst, of course.
And, uh, it was a death sentence for Pam.
Nothing she could do.
It was just a matter of when, not if.
Uh, the doctors, though, did a really strange procedure on Pam.
They lowered her body temperature, drained all the blood from her body, every bit of it.
Uh, so her heart stopped.
Uh, respiration ceased.
Brain waves, EEG activity, all stopped.
I mean, dead cold for an hour, Dean, for one full hour.
Well, of course, when they took the blood out of her body, the embolism deflated.
They were then able to open up her head, her brain, and just clip the embolism and repair it.
Then put the blood back in her body, put the paddles on her chest, gave her a jolt, and Pam came back after an hour.
Dean, after a whole hour.
Now, during that hour, you might ask, where was Pam?
Well, Pam has an answer for that.
She, on the one hand, was able to account, and this is backed up by her doctor, for every single minute of the hour that she was gone.
Everything that went on in the operating room, the tools that were used, things that were said, all the rest of it.
She can account for that hour, that linear hour.
But she also was out of her body and totally somewhere else.
Now, I regard that as probably one of the strongest pieces of evidence that I've ever heard.
That there absolutely is something separate from our electrical brain activity when it ceases, that continues to exist.
And a story like that is hard to refute.
It certainly argues very strongly for the issue.
I wrote a book once called Hideaway, in which it sounds very much like her experience.
A fellow was dead for an extended period of time because he died in a traffic accident in which his car tumbled into a river.
And a river was icy and frozen, and his body temperature dropped.
That's right.
And during the time he was out, he went elsewhere.
But there are too many... The issue you raise there, the issue that's very difficult to understand, by all medical understanding, when all of our functions stopped, something should Something should have happened to Pam.
She should not be there in that body anymore.
It's interesting.
It's something that medical science doesn't really like to talk about.
There's all kinds of arguments when people have been in frozen or near frozen condition, not frozen enough to develop cell damage from it, but have been revived after extended periods of time and have been dead.
by all medical argument that consciousness could not continue to
exist in their body the brain function had stopped in many of these cases brain
function had stopped totally
yeah totally right and yet when the person is revived the personality is the same and the
the memory is intact and that argues that that personality that consciousness
step aside somewhere for a time and that it is not linked entirely
to the physical body. Well if that is then possible if consciousness can step aside for a time and document what's
going on in the operating room or
talk about the dead relatives in the white light or whatever
and then step back again into the body that strongly argues that in all likelihood
we don't even begin to understand death At all, and that there really is absolutely a continuation.
Dean, Dean, hold on.
We're at the top of the hour already.
That was fast.
Oof.
Dean Koontz is here.
Household word.
Author of lots of scary stuff.
Not horror, mind you, but certainly horrific.
As I said, I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Raging through the nighttime.
Don't touch that dial.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
tonight featuring a replay of coast to coast am from january twenty second
two thousand two right
the the world
like a dog with you
There's a killer on the road His brain is squirming like a toad Take a long holiday Let your children play If you give this man a ride, sweet mamma, he will die
Killer on the road, yeah You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 22nd, 2002.
Dean Koontz is here.
Bill in Ohio says, Haren, I came out of my bedroom the other day, glanced at my office at the end of the hall, and I swear to God, I saw myself sitting at the chair at the computer.
I looked back.
And it, in quotes, was gone.
Another universe?
Possibly.
Another universe, possibly.
We'll be right back.
You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
Governments won't do that.
And the reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
They think that they'll lose control of us.
If we know.
If you actually truly believe that we were being visited by extraterrestrials and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that government throws out all the time?
Absolutely not!
You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
So, the bottom line is, government will never, ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
Now we take you back to the night of January 22, 2002, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Dean Jim in Tucson, Arizona writes, I loved the book Lightning.
It was a fantastic tale about Nazi time travel.
One of your best, he says.
Tell us a little bit about that premise.
Fortunately, it's an old book, so I don't feel so bad about giving things away, because I figure a lot of people have read it.
But there you are.
I've always been fascinated, as I know you have, with time travel, and I wanted to tell a story that was A completely different approach to time travel.
The book begins with a woman who at her birth, the night of her birth, the doctor who is going to deliver her is drunk.
He's trying to go out in a snowstorm to get to the hospital to deliver her.
This man comes out of the snowstorm in a blast of lightning, which generally doesn't go with a snowstorm.
And overpowers his doctor and prevents him from going to the hospital and somebody else ends up delivering this girl.
And throughout her life, she's unaware of this, but we as a reader are, and throughout her life, however, this man at key points in her life shows up and changes her fate for the better.
And my premise in the book was that time travel had been invented a long time ago by Nazi scientists who had invented a form of time travel that Could only travel to the future, because I didn't want to deal with the paradox of going into the past, which we discussed earlier.
So they've invented a form of time travel in the early 40s that allow them to go forward in the future, their purpose being to go forward to find futuristic weapons and to bring them back to change the course of the war.
And they can only go forward and come back to the point of origin of the trip.
One of these Nazi scientists in the book sees this woman when she is 20-some years old,
or 30 years old, and she is a paraplegic in a wheelchair, but she is a relatively famous
author.
He happens to see her at a book signing.
You don't find this out for a while in the book.
He is so taken with her and so fascinated by her grace and her beauty that he reads
the book and he falls in love with her.
So she becomes his redemption and he begins to use, unknown to the other people in these
experiments, he uses his time traveling to move forward at various points in her life,
including the night she was born, and save her from the doctor who crippled her.
So she does not become disabled and he keeps coming in throughout her life to change her destiny.
It's kind of a very strange love story, but ultimately the Nazis, of course, find out what's going on and they send people forward to get her.
Incredible.
So that was an early book for you, then?
That's one of the earlier ones, yeah.
Gee whiz, then.
You've been fascinated with this sort of thing from the get-go.
You know, when I was eight years old, I was writing little stories on tablet paper and drawing covers and peddling them throughout the spring nickel.
i were to tell you what the subject of the more they were uncannily like what i
became obsessed with as a writer and another and an adult and it didn't work where they came from a date i have no
idea do you uh...
do you think ultimately uh... you know this is such a fascinating topic
I'm probably right.
I'm fascinated by it.
I, uh, you may recall the movie Somewhere in Time, uh, with Christopher Reeves and James Seymour.
Amazing movie.
A love story about time travel.
If you've never seen it, you ought to.
Um, I actually went to a reunion up on an island, uh, off Michigan, uh, for that, for that movie.
And, uh, So I just I the whole subject of time travel it seems to me if it's ever going to be possible then of course somebody has asked rightfully then then where are the time travelers and they may well be here.
Dean, we don't know what the rules of time travel may or may not be, but if it is ever going to be possible, and if our society continues without blowing itself up, you've got to imagine it will eventually be possible, and so there should be time travelers, shouldn't there?
Well, logic tells you that if at some point in the future it were ever to become possible to travel backward in time, there probably would be a It would not be something the average person was doing, I doubt.
It would be something that was a government and academic project, and the people involved in it would have to abide by rules, and those rules would be not to reveal themselves among us.
So, it would make perfect sense that they could be here, but unknown.
So, if there were such a technology, the first to get it, no doubt, would be our government.
Well, I think when you're looking at something, anything that's a scientific breakthrough from the atom bomb onward has cost so many billions of dollars to research and develop that you need somebody with, an entity with very deep pockets and you almost have to imagine then that it has to be a government entity that creates that.
Unless there is, of course, the kind of breakthrough that you saw in the Turn of the previous century when a lot of people like Edison and so forth were able to, almost as one-man shops, create revolutionary developments.
I don't think we're past the time that that could happen, but it's less and less likely as science gets more complicated.
A quantum jump, though, is indeed possible.
It's always possible.
I think it can always happen.
Just somebody stumbling into something all of a sudden.
A great many developments in science were stumbled into.
That's something scientists don't like to talk about too much.
Well, let's talk about stumbling in science for a second.
We have either cloned a person or we are about to clone a person.
My personal belief is somewhere in a lab somewhere it's probably already been done.
And doctors here, scientists here, are saying that if the U.S.
passes laws against cloning They will pick up sticks and go to Europe or Scandinavia or wherever they can do it and happily produce babies, cloned babies, for rich people with big egos who want clones.
And they will do that for the right amount of money.
So, the cloning is upon us, like it or not.
How about you?
Like it or not?
Well, if we're talking about using scientific knowledge to ultimately be able to take I don't know if I see people talking about this.
tissue and clone a new kidney for you or a new heart that will have no chance of rejection.
That's one thing, but when we are talking about cloning human beings I am utterly opposed
and for this reason, which I don't know if I see people talking about this, you will
get into these arguments, well is it moral or is it right?
But for me the issue is what about those individuals who are being cloned, who are being created?
We don't have the knowledge to create and to be confident that we can create flawless
clones.
Look at Dolly the Sheep, who has now got all these medical problems.
All of these cloned animals so far have severe medical problems.
We don't know what sort of psychological problems a human being would have cloned this way.
I'm not talking about developmental problems, but I'm talking about problems that come innately with the cloned person.
I have to think about those people.
I think about the pitiable creatures on the island of Dr. Moreau, and Moreau was creating these wonderful, to him, these wonderful crossbreeds, elevating these simple species, but these were suffering, tormented creatures.
And to some extent, we have that terrible risk of cloning somebody, a child, and then that child has all sorts of medical problems and mental problems.
What about The right of that child not to have to suffer.
I think this is a step science should never take, but you're right.
There are people going to do it because there's money in it, because their egos are on the line, and they've forgotten the example of Frankenstein.
Well, I just don't know what new science that has become available to us that we have not developed for either military or civilian use, period.
In other words, if the science is there to be developed, we have never not done it that I'm aware of.
No, I agree.
It'll be done, but I think there will be great, terrible things that take place related to this because, again, of those individuals who are being cloned and who won't be perfect because we are so far away from understanding.
We thought we would understand the human structure, the human Animal when we understood the human genome and now we've mapped the human genome But it's become clear that that's only a tiny fraction of what makes us what we are And we're going to be a century if more not more learning that until we have learned that I don't see how we can with any conscience clone Conscience conscious human being that is going to suffer because of our inadequate science and then of course there's bringing back the dead Once you can clone
All you need is viable tissue and you can bring the dead back.
Mm-hmm.
And in some cases, if you could bring them back as the original person was, and if the science actually worked,
that'd be one thing.
But you can imagine the temptation to clone some of history's monsters.
Of course.
And then there's always the fact that once you can clone, the next step is that you can manipulate genetic codes, and you can then try to improve upon the human being.
I mean, you can give us, you know, better vision, see in new spectrums, another arm here and there, another eye located somewhere convenient.
I don't know, but all kinds of Horrific things will be possible very, very soon.
I've written two books, Fear Nothing and Seize the Night, that are about this very subject, about genetic engineering and some unintended consequences of them.
And I set it in a very pretty little California town, but behind the scenes it's next to an abandoned military base, except it's not entirely abandoned.
This is something that's been on my mind for a long time, and there are great benefits to genetic engineering.
We've been doing it a long time.
We've engineered crops for centuries in simple genetic engineering by selection.
There's great benefits to it, but not all of it has worked out as intended.
I mean, in some cases, for example, butterflies, I forget what it was, but something or another genetically engineered butterflies interacted with it and didn't do well and died.
You don't always know exactly what's going to occur.
You get better corn, but where do the butterflies go?
Interestingly, I think we're going through a paradigm shift in science that hopefully is going to happen in time to save us.
But for most of the history of science, it's been reductionism.
It's always the belief that if we could look into the smallest particles of everything, if we could get down to the tiniest scale, We would ultimately have full understanding and knowledge of what makes everything work, and that was what drove biology.
That's what drove physics.
When we found the atom, we thought we knew, and then we found subatomic particles, and now quantum physicists find things going on in the subatomic level that tell them, finding the tiniest particles didn't explain anything at all.
Well, they've explained some stuff, but it raised greater mysteries.
And in biology, Darwin was of the belief that the smallest particle, there was no atomic structure, not when Darwin was working, but he believed the smallest particle was carbonized albumin, he called it, and that everything, all life, that was the smallest element.
Well, when we discover atomic structure underlying it, and the order that's in atomic structure, A lot of Darwin theories don't hold up, and we're getting in many of the sciences now a sort of systemic view of things, where they're discovering in quantum mechanics, for instance, that yes, you can look at all those tiny particles, that very strange things are happening that aren't explained by how those particles function, or what we know of their function, and that there are interactions on a macro scale, on a great scale, that aren't explained by how everything works down there in the tiny, tiny center of everything.
Well, when science finds something that it doesn't understand, a lot of times, unfortunately, it virtually puts it on the shelf.
Then, occasionally, there's something so big they can't do that.
There's an offshore discovery off the shore of Cuba, in which they believe they've found a lost city about 2,200 feet off underwater.
Now, last ice age would account for about 300 feet at best.
And, you know, there's just no way there should be What was described with side-scan sonar as buildings, pyramidal shapes, roads, highways, what appeared to be an urban city 2200 feet off the western coast of Cuba.
And National Geographic is on that one right now, and we'll eventually find out.
But what we believe to be true about ourselves and our past May not be exactly the way it happened.
And, of course, science is very slow to accept such things.
It has a certain way, and it believes a certain thing occurred, and a lot of careers and people's money and grant money and stuff is at stake along with those careers, and so they don't change easily.
They're very slow to make changes.
But at the same time, They're capable of making very fast, rash decisions.
For example, in San Francisco, they did, I thought, a very dangerous experiment.
I felt very sorry for the fellow.
He had AIDS.
And they had this idea of completely killing his immune system.
I mean, utterly destroying whatever was left of it and replacing it with a simian immune system.
And they did that.
Now, they just did it.
Now, the possible consequences of that are pretty horrific in themselves in other words gee whiz uh... you some sort of simian uh... human combination new disease could have uh... come of it uh... who knows what could have come of it it is it was very heroic that they gave this shot for the fellow but it is kind of like they admitted there could be society-wide consequences of small risk but you know they didn't really discuss that with us before they in essence push the button they just went ahead and
Well, that too is a history of science, and I am pro-science, pro-progress.
We all have what we have because it's worked more often than not, but you do wonder sometimes about the perspective of some people who will do something like that, but you go all the way back to the original work on the Manhattan Project, and when the first Uh, atomic reaction was created.
There were a significant number of physicists who did believe there was a possibility that when we began an atomic chain reaction, it would be uncontrollable, and that it would spread throughout the entire atmosphere of the planet.
And they went ahead with it anyway.
And it would destroy everything.
Yeah, and of course that turned out not to be true, but there was a significant number of reputable people who were afraid it would... Who thought the entire atmosphere could go into a chain reaction.
And that would instantly be the end of us.
Well, that was then, and this is now.
And now we have some very similar choices directly ahead.
Scientists who are going to play with creating black holes and the very essence of creation itself.
Now, when it gets to the point where they've got the machine that'll do the creating, say, of a black hole, And the button is right there, and the finger is poised above the button.
How many of you out there, how many of you have confidence that that finger will draw away and say, oh no, no, no!
We can't do this.
Or do you see the finger mashing on the button?
Well, I see the mashing.
I'm Art Bell, this is Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 22nd, 2002.
Thank you for watching. Please subscribe to our channel.
Good night.
You're my home, and I love you.
I am not alone.
I've been waiting for this all night for all my life.
Oh no.
Oh no.
I remember your words How could I ever forget it's the first time
The last time we ever met Man, man, man.
But I know the reason why you keep your silence low The beautiful me Who the hurt doesn't show But the pain is so raw Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired January 22nd, 2002.
We'll get the phone lines open for Dean Kuntz in a moment.
All of you should know Dean Kuntz.
As I said at the beginning of the program, you walk into some bookstores and some supermarkets and they have, like, Dean Kuntz sections.
You don't just have Dean Kuntz books here and there, you have entire Dean Kuntz sections.
That's really something.
We'll be right back.
Now we take you back to the night of January 22, 2002 on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Alright, we're about to take calls for Dean Koontz, but before we do, just a couple of items.
One is nanotechnology.
Dean, have you ever heard the phrase grey goo?
Yep.
I had an expert on nanotechnology after a series of them on the show, and they brought up the subject of grey goo, and that one scared the hell out of me.
Just really scared the hell out of me, and I don't scare easily.
But the concept that there could be some little machine made Which would gobble up everything, literally, totally, everything on the Earth, and it would spread like the plague, just sort of like a creeping thing in the night that would literally eat everything in front of it, biological, or your desk, your house, the grass, everything.
It would eat up everything.
That's one of the horrid promises of nanotechnology.
What do you think of all that?
It's a spooky concept, but we're plunging forward in nanotechnology.
Whether the risk of the grey goo machine, the idea comes from the thought that nanomachines could be built that could take any, a vat of elements or anything in your room and extract the material needed to build something.
You could fill this vat with a mixture of elements and everything else and fill it then with millions or billions of these little tiny molecular machines.
Each one programmed to do a certain part of building a television set, for instance, and at periodic moments, complete television sets would bob up in this vat of slop, and they would go on building these, but then the question arises, do these things, are they containable?
Would they leak out and reduce everything around them to essentially grey goo in an attempt to create and build more things?
Again, sort of the Frankenstein Syndrome, but I'll tell you, I think nanotechnology will come, whether the gray goo is a real risk.
I mean, we're already, we have some nanotechnology now, but I think where it comes and where I find it very interesting, perhaps very helpful, perhaps with unintended consequences, is in the medical usage.
I can certainly see that when we get very sophisticated nanotechnology, one of the first things we'll do with it is create tiny molecular machines that you injected in a serum that contains millions of these little machines.
And their job is to circulate through your arteries and veins and continually scrape the walls clean so that you never develop plaque.
That should be a very early adaptation of nanotechnology to the medical sphere.
But I'm working on a book right now which deals with some potentially interesting negative complications of
nanomachines that end up in the brain and what they could do once they get there.
So it's a fascinating subject.
So that's your next book?
It's a book I'm working on now called By the Light of the Moon.
It's one of these scientists who has developed it and some people were trying to prevent him from trying this
out, but he has been trying it out.
He considers it his life's work and he's about to be stopped
and so he gives it, what appears to be random, to a couple of people
and makes the pleasant observation to the many.
It always does something different to everyone, and that's one of the interesting things about nanomachines.
If you create these tiny little machines that are programmed to supposedly do these very specific tasks, That's one thing, but nanomachines that could pass into the substance of the brain and whose job is to create new connections to double and triple the number of synapses, what might that do to the brain and what might that create in the way of benefits or benefits?
In all of these books that you write, this is kind of a question I guess you don't have to answer.
A while ago you were stressing that we need to remain optimistic because of our beliefs about consciousness, and I tend to agree with that, but in the majority of your books you're writing about some pretty scary negative stuff, and it's impossible not to believe, Dean, that there's a part of you, there's a part of your brain In which, you know, I mean, some of this has got to be you.
It comes from you, right?
Oh, I think that it's very interesting you make that observation, because just the day my editor sent me this thing from a columnist, I think it was in the Fort Wayne Star-Telegram or somewhere like that in Texas.
I said, he loves reading my books because they have this weird quality and they have this darkness that you... Yes.
Things that are in our real lives.
They're not vampires and... Yes.
And we're wolves and that sort of thing, but things that can actually happen, and yet it's all wrapped up in a faith in humanity and an optimism about the future that takes you into the dark place, but in the end leaves you feeling uplifted and confident about things, and that's actually how I feel.
Well, but still, you can't get there without knowing something about it.
Oh, yeah.
You just can't get there, so... Yeah, it's one of the things that's fascinating.
When I was a kid, I...
You know, I hated research.
I hated learning about anything.
I was a slacker, and when I came to writing papers for school, I made up the facts in the books I attributed in my papers.
Now, I just love learning this new stuff, and when a book comes out, somebody on any of these really esoteric subjects as an expert will write me and say, How did you know this?
How did you find this?
But almost everything is learnable and findable, no matter how out there it is.
Well, speaking of out there, My show is frequently way out there.
Although I must say that an awful lot of what has been out there years ago, people said, Bill, you're really out there.
Boy, you're nuts.
Well, a few years later, guess what?
It's reality.
And a lot of people, of course, I've been on the air long enough, so a lot of people know that is absolutely true.
But a lot of this fiction that we write, these possibilities we consider or talk about, have a habit of coming true.
Not all of them.
Not all of them, by a long shot.
I mean, there have been plenty of misses.
We used to have robots all around us, according to the science fiction.
You know, in the fifties, by now, we should have robots doing all our work for us, and so forth.
Well, all of that never came true, but an awful lot has.
You know, I think, creatively, when you're working in these areas, and you open your mind to it, and you're constantly exercising your creativity, I think in some way you get in touch with something primal.
It allows you to write about things that seem far out, but you're actually writing about things, I don't want to say psychically, that you perceive may be coming to pass, but you're in tune with something when you exercise your creativity a lot.
That's right.
Many years ago, I wrote a book called Demon Seed, which was made into a movie with Julie Christie, and when the movie came out, some of the reviews said, this is absolutely impossible, it's ridiculous.
It's about a woman whose house has a very elaborate security system, and her house is completely computer operated.
And the reviewer said, the idea that there would be a computer in a private home is so ridiculous that you can't get involved with the movie.
Well, that movie came out in 77, and they were, some of the reviewers were saying it was absurd to think of a computer in a private home.
I love that movie.
And how much, how quickly thereafter were there computers in all our homes?
So, you're exactly right.
What seems absurd at one point, just give a little bit of time and more.
I think sometimes more often than not it comes to pass.
Well, you sort of just denied it, but there must have been plenty of times when you have privately wondered about some book that you've just written about whether there is something more than just your hand and your brain involved, whether there's some sort of conduit that you don't fully understand.
I'd say that's absolutely true.
You get into, especially when you get into, I'm sure you know what I mean by flow state, You get into what athletes call in the zone.
That's right.
And it begins to come through.
It doesn't mean that it's necessarily easier to get it right, but it begins to flow through you and you almost feel like you're not creating this, that you're a conduit for it.
And in those moments, yeah, that's exactly.
There's a definite strong feeling of being uncanny.
And those periods can last for a few hours or they can last for days and they're impossible to create.
You can't force it.
When it happens to you, you just ride with it.
I know.
I know.
Believe me, I know.
I think all creative people know about the zone and when they're in it, they sure know it and when they're not, they sure know it.
It's an amazing thing and I'm not beyond imagining, Dean, that at times you may be plucking some concepts and ideas from the mass consciousness.
I've considered all kinds of things about it.
I've even said that there are times when you're in that flow state and everything is coming to you and you're creating whole worlds on paper.
I don't mean by that that I think I write better fiction than God.
that you feel a sense, you feel God-like and you feel not only God-like but you feel, and
this may sound, it sounds perfectly normal to me, but you feel in touch with God when
that creativity is flowing and you feel like you understand the creative force that made
the universe.
And I say, I don't mean by that that I think I write better fiction than God.
God writes better fiction than I do any time he wants to try.
But you do feel like you're in touch with some greater creativity, some massive consciousness
from which everything flows to you.
And that to me is the essence of a flow state.
I've been in a flow state a couple of times where...
It went on for 36 hours and I did not go to bed.
I stayed up and stayed at the keyboard for 36 hours exhausted but exhilarated and it's just an amazing feeling.
A lot of people would not understand all of this and they would translate it to ego and I can see how it could easily be seen that way but that's not what it is.
It's just something that That happens, and you just know you are there.
Boy, you are doing it right.
In fact, you're exactly right.
It's exactly the opposite.
When you have these periods, and when you come out of these periods, you feel like it had nothing to do with you, in a way.
It's very humbling.
It is, yes.
You don't feel at all like, wow, look how wonderful I am.
I am. You feel like, you feel in a way, it's hard to describe.
You feel exhilarated and exalted, but at the same time deeply humbled and insignificant in a way.
It's a fascinating experience.
And then there's another scary part of it, too, and that's that when you're not in it, you really wonder if you can ever get in it again, and that's a scary prospect.
uh... and and the more you struggle to get into it the more it eludes you
exactly right um...
wildcard line you're on the air with dean koonce hello there where are you
please i'm just sad to hear the name is cat
uh...
first of all congratulations to mister koonce for coming up with a probable
answer to the infamous mystery of the lost sock uh... question
have you ever considered sir the possibility that the human body is
nothing but a map of sensors the brain is nothing but a loosely programmed microprocessor
and that the memory is the sole or whatever you wish to call it
And there's a very good reason for that question.
Have I ever considered that?
Yes.
Certainly, and I mean you can take it one step further and well, no, I won't take it that one step further.
What was the reason you asked that question?
Well, there are people who have great mass losses of brain due to water on the brain and they still function normally.
Therefore, you have eliminated a lot of storage area.
That's true.
In fact, there are people Who have the great majority of their brain, Dean, actually surgically removed without apparent consequence.
It's astounding.
You know, just a small part of the brain can do the whole job and all the memories basically remain intact and the person continues to function.
It's unbelievable.
Well, I've heard of that also.
It works perfectly fine within my world view.
There's another interesting thing to consider and that is that our brain is not the totality
of our memories.
There have been a lot of interesting organ transplants that have gone on and I've interviewed
a number of people, one lady in particular who received the heart and lungs of a young
man.
You may have heard this in the news.
It hit the national news.
And when she awoke from the operation, she said, She had immediate cravings for things that only an 18-year-old would want.
I mean, she was in her 40s or 50s, I forget.
But she had these cravings that would only be associated with about an 18-year-old.
And then, here's the topper, she went to sleep one night shortly after the operation and dreamed the name of her donor.
Something kept very tightly from the recipient of organs now.
That might suggest that there's a cellular memory in places other than our brain that all the cells of our body may contain some sort of something that gets transferred.
There is a book out there with a fairly new theory in it proposed by Sirius Science called The Living Energy Universe, which proposes that memory exists essentially at the cellular level in almost everything.
They even propose the possibility that light particles themselves have memory.
It's a very complicated argument, but fascinating.
And it plays to write what you've said, that memory may exist, our concept of ourselves may exist in more places than just the brain.
So everybody should keep in mind, and this may extend even to what we consider to be inanimate objects.
That's part of this living energy universe theory, that even in, there is some form of memory, and it explains why The planetary systems, for instance, keep cleansing
themselves and rebuilding themselves.
There is within even the planet itself some sort of age old memory.
It's interesting, isn't it?
You think back to when I was a kid, they had these movies that seemed terribly silly at
the time where some pianist would get a hand transplant from a killer and he would become
a killer.
That's right.
And now here there is getting to be something very similar to that that is being seriously
discussed in medical science.
There you are.
Well, think about it.
I mean, one day, folks, those beds may talk.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dean Koons.
Good morning.
Hello.
Going once.
Yes, sir.
Are you there?
Yes.
Yes.
I don't see you.
It's you.
Go ahead.
I'm sorry, I didn't hear you say east of the Rockies.
I thought it was Rocky Mountain.
No, I said east.
Oh, I'm sorry.
Where are you?
Auburn, Indiana, home of the Auburn Corps of Duesenberg.
Okay.
When you guys were talking about future time travel, something came to mind that Stephen Hawking said, and I think he's a brilliant mind, that we haven't seen future time travelers because it hasn't happened yet.
Yeah, the theory is that time travel, there would be not time travelers until Time travel is invented. Mm-hmm. Yes
But of course if the future is out there it's ahead of us and
If you take the view that the past present and future already all exist, which is part of the concept of quantum
mechanics Then then all the time is already out there and somewhere
or other it would have been invented That was the only question I had.
Art, I haven't heard Lee Hazelwood and Nancy Sinatra.
They simply wouldn't want us to know they traveled to our time.
There would be nothing for them to gain by making themselves known to us.
Colin?
Yes, that's fascinating.
That was the only question I had.
Art, I haven't heard Lee Hazelwood and Nancy Sinatra.
Did I join you too late?
Lee Hazelwood, yes you did.
Lee Hazelwood was on the air with his son a few days ago.
Oh yeah, I heard that, but I mean the song.
Oh, you mean I haven't played it lately.
Well, it's in the pile here, I'll get to it, don't worry.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dean Koontz.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi.
Hi.
This is Katherine Sparks.
Yes.
And I'm wondering, Dean, do you have an email address that people could reach you at?
I'm prehistoric here.
I'm now getting about 20,000 letters a year from readers and we respond to all of them so I put an address in the back of each new book that facilitates that.
I figure if I ever got emailed I wouldn't be able to cope with it so I've stayed away from that.
Snail mail is my only mail.
Did you ever live in New York City at the very early part of your career?
I used to be in New York a lot, but I lived in Pennsylvania.
I never lived in the city itself.
Thank you.
All right.
Dean are you good to go?
I've been waiting for this moment for all my life.
Oh Lord, Oh Lord.
Oh Lord, I remember.
I remember your words.
How could I ever forget it's the first time.
The last time we ever met.
But I know the reason why you keep me starting to.
I love you, I love you.
Well, the hurt doesn't show, but the pain still grows.
So I'll bring it to you.
Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired January 22, 2002.
We'll get the phone lines open for Dean Kuntz in a moment.
All of you should know Dean Kuntz.
As I said at the beginning of the program, you walk into some bookstores and some supermarkets and they have, like, Dean Koontz sections.
You don't just have Dean Koontz books here and there, you have entire Dean Koontz sections.
That's really something.
We'll be right back.
Now we take you back to the night of January 22, 2002 on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
All right, we're about to take calls for Dean Kunz, but before we do, just a couple of items.
One is nanotechnology.
Dean, have you ever heard the phrase grey goo?
Yes.
I had an expert on nanotechnology, actually a series of them on the show, and they brought up the subject of grey goo, and that one scared the hell out of me.
Just really scared the hell out of me, and I don't scare easily.
But the concept that there could be some little machine made which would gobble up everything, literally, totally everything on the earth, and it would spread like the plague, just sort of like a creeping That's one of the horrid promises of nanotechnology.
What do you think of all that?
It's a spooky concept, but we're plunging forward in nanotechnology.
your house and the grass, everything, it would eat up everything.
That's one of the horrid promises of nanotechnology.
What do you think of all that?
It's a spooky concept, but we're plunging forward in nanotechnology.
Whether the risk of the gray goo machine, the idea comes from the thought that nanomachines
could be built that could take any of that, of elements or anything in your room, and
extract the material needed to build something.
You could fill this vat with a mixture of elements and everything else and fill it then with millions or billions of these little tiny molecular machines, each one programmed to do a certain part of building a television set, for instance.
And at periodic moments, complete television sets would bob up in this vat of slop.
And they would go on building these.
But then the question arises, do these things, are they containable?
Would they leak out and reduce everything around them to essentially grey goo in an attempt to create and build more things?
Again, sort of the Frankenstein syndrome.
But I'll tell you, I think nanotechnology will come.
Whether the gray goo is a real risk.
I mean, we're already, we have some nanotechnology now, but I think where it comes and where I find it very interesting, perhaps very helpful, perhaps with unintended consequences is in the medical usage.
I can certainly see that when we get very sophisticated nanotechnology, one of the first things we'll do with it is create tiny molecular machines that you injected in a serum that contains millions of these little machines And their job is to circulate through your arteries and veins and continually scrape the walls clean so that you never develop plaque.
That should be a very early adaptation of nanotechnology to the medical sphere.
But I'm working on a book right now which deals with some potentially interesting negative complications of nanomachines that end up in the brain and what they could do once they get there.
So that's your next book?
It's a book I'm working on now called By the Light of the Moon and it's one of these scientists who has developed it and some people are trying to prevent him from trying this out but he has been trying it out.
He considers it his life's work and he's about to be stopped and so he gives it what appears to be random to a couple of people and makes this pleasant observation to them.
It always does something different to everyone.
And that's one of the interesting things about nanomachines.
If you create these tiny little machines that are programmed supposedly to do these very specific tasks, that's one thing.
But nanomachines that could pass into the substance of the brain and whose job is to create new connections to double and triple the number of synapses, what might What might that do to the brain, and what might that create in the way of benefits?
In all of these books that you write, this is kind of a question I guess you don't have to answer.
A while ago you were stressing that we need to remain optimistic because of our beliefs about consciousness, and I tend to agree with that.
In the majority of your books, you're writing about some pretty scary negative stuff, and it's impossible not to believe, being that, you know, there's a part of you, there's a part of your brain in which, you know, I mean, some of this has got to be you.
It comes from you, right?
Oh, I think that it's very interesting you make that observation, because yesterday my editor sent me this thing from a column, I think it was in the Fort Wayne Star-Telegram or somewhere like that in Texas.
I said, he loves reading my books because they have this weird quality and they have this darkness that things that are in our real lives, they're not vampires and werewolves and that sort of thing, but things that can actually happen.
And yet, it's all wrapped up in a faith in humanity and an optimism about the future that takes you into this dark place, but in the end leaves you feeling uplifted and confident about things.
And that's actually how I feel.
You can't get there without knowing something about it.
Oh, yeah.
You just can't get there.
Yeah, it's one of the bad things.
When I was a kid, I hated research.
I hated learning about anything.
I was a flacker, and when I came to writing papers for school, I made up the facts in the books I attributed in my papers.
Now, I just love learning this new stuff, and when a book comes out, I'll have somebody On any of these really esoteric subjects, an expert will
write me and say, How did you know this? How did you find this?
But almost everything is learnable and findable no matter how out there it is.
Well, speaking of out there, my show is frequently way out there.
Although I must say that an awful lot of what has been out there years ago,
people said, Bill, you're really out there.
Boy, you're nuts.
Well, a few years later, guess what?
It's reality.
And a lot of people, of course, I've been on the air long enough, so a lot of people know that is absolutely true.
But a lot of this fiction that we write, these possibilities we consider or talk about, have a habit of coming true.
Not all of them.
Not all of them, by a long shot.
I mean, there have been plenty of misses.
We should have robots all around us, according to the science fiction.
You know, in the fifties, by now, we should have robots doing all our work for us, and so forth.
Well, all of that never came true, but an awful lot has.
You know, I think, creatively, when you're working in these areas, and you open your mind to it, and you're constantly exercising your creativity, I think in some way you get in touch with something primal.
It allows you to write about things that seem far out, but you're actually writing about things, I don't want to say psychically, that you perceive may be coming to pass, but you're in tune with something when you exercise your creativity a lot.
That's right.
Many years ago, I wrote a book called Demon Seed, which was made into a movie with Julie Christie, and when the movie came out, some of the reviews said, this is absolutely impossible.
It's ridiculous.
It's about a woman whose house has a very elaborate security system, and her house is completely computer operated.
And the reviewer said, the idea that there would be a computer in a private home is so ridiculous that you can't get involved with the movie.
Well, that movie came out in 77, and some of the reviewers were saying it was absurd to think of a computer in a private home.
I love that movie.
And how quickly thereafter were there computers in all our homes.
So, you're exactly right.
What seems absurd at one point, just give it a little bit of time.
I think sometimes more often than not it comes to pass.
Well, you sort of just denied it, but there must have been plenty of times when you have privately wondered about some book that you've just written about whether there is something more than just your hand and your brain involved, whether there's some sort of conduit that you don't fully understand.
I'd say that's absolutely true.
You get into, especially when you get into, I'm sure you know what I mean by flow state, You get into what athletes call in the zone.
That's right.
And it begins to come through.
It doesn't mean that it's necessarily easier to get it right, but it begins to flow through you and you almost feel like you're not creating this, that you're a conduit for it.
And in those moments, yeah, that's exactly, there's a definite strong feeling of being canny.
And those periods can last for a few hours or they can last for days, and they're impossible to create.
You can't force it.
When it happens to you, you just ride with it.
I know.
I know.
Believe me, I know.
I think all creative people know about the zone, and when they're in it, they sure know it, and when they're not, they sure know it.
It's an amazing thing, and I'm not beyond imagining, Dean, that at times you may be plucking some concepts and ideas from the mass consciousness.
I've considered all kinds of things about it.
I've even said that there are times when you're in that flow state, and everything is coming to you, and you're creating whole worlds on paper.
I don't mean by that that I think I write better fiction than God.
You feel a sense, you feel God-like and you feel not only God-like but you feel, and this
may sound, it sounds perfectly normal to me, but you feel in touch with God when that creativity
is flowing and you feel like you understand the creative force that made the universe.
I say, I don't mean by that that I think I write better fiction than God.
God writes better fiction than I do any time he wants to try.
But you do feel like you are in touch with some greater creativity, some massive consciousness
from which everything flows to you.
That to me is the essence of a flow state.
I've been in a flow state a couple of times where...
It went on for 36 hours, and I did not go to bed.
I stayed up and stayed at the keyboard for 36 hours, exhausted but exhilarated, and it's just an amazing feeling.
A lot of people would not understand all of this, and they would translate it to ego, and I can see how it could easily be seen that way, but that's not what it is.
It's just something that happens, and you just know you are there.
Boy, you are doing it right.
In fact, you're exactly right, it's the attributed ego, but it's exactly the opposite.
When you have these periods, and when you come out of these periods, you feel like it had nothing to do with you in a way.
It's very humbling.
It is, yes.
You don't feel at all like, wow, look how wonderful I am.
You feel in a way, it's hard to describe, you feel exhilarated.
Exalted, but at the same time deeply humbled and insignificant in a way.
It's a fascinating experience.
And then there's another scary part of it, too, and that's that when you're not in it, you really wonder if you can ever get in it again, and that's a scary prospect.
And the harder you struggle to get into it, the more it eludes you.
Exactly right.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dean Kuhn.
Hello there.
Where are you, please?
I'm near Santa Clara.
The name is Kat.
Yes, Kat.
First of all, congratulations to Mr. Koonce for coming up with a probable answer to the infamous mystery of the lost sock.
Question.
Have you ever considered, sir, the possibility that the human body is nothing but a mass of sensors, the brain is nothing but a loosely programmed microprocessor, and that the memory is the soul, or whatever you wish to call it, and there's a very good reason for that question.
Have I ever considered that?
Yes.
Certainly, and I mean you can take it one step further and, well no I won't take it that one step further, what was the reason you asked that question?
Well, there are people who have great mass losses of brain due to water on the brain and they still function normally.
Therefore, you have eliminated a lot of storage area.
That's true.
In fact, there are people who have the great majority of their brain, Dean, actually surgically removed without apparent consequence.
It's astounding.
You know, in just a small part of the brain, Can do the whole job and all the memories basically remain intact and the person continues to function.
It's unbelievable.
Well, I've heard of that also and it works perfectly fine within my world view.
There's another interesting thing to consider and that is that our brain is not the totality of our memories.
There have been a lot of interesting organ transplants that have gone on and I've interviewed a
number of people of one lady in particular who received the heart and lungs of
a young man you may have heard this in the news and I hit the national news and
when she awoke from the operation she had immediate cravings for
things that only an 18 year old would want I I mean, she was in her 40s or 50s, I forget.
But she had these cravings that would only be associated with about an 18-year-old.
And then, here's the topper, she went to sleep one night shortly after the operation and dreamed the name of her donor.
Something kept very tightly from the recipient of organs.
Now, that might suggest that there's a cellular memory in places other than our brain, that all the cells of our body may contain some sort of something that gets transferred.
There is a book out there with a fairly new theory in it, proposed by Sirius Finus, called The Living Energy Universe, which proposes that memory exists essentially at the cellular level in almost everything, in everything that's living.
They even propose the possibility that light particles themselves have memory.
It's a very complicated argument, but fascinating.
It plays to write what you've said, that memory may exist, our concept of ourselves may exist in more places than just the brain.
So everybody should keep in mind, and this may extend even to what we consider to be inanimate objects.
That's part of this living energy universe theory that even in, there is some form of memory
and it explains why the planetary systems, for instance, keep cleansing themselves
and rebuilding themselves and that there is within even the planet itself some sort of age old memory.
It's interesting, isn't it?
You think back to when I was a kid, they had these movies that seemed terribly silly
at the time where a pianist would get a hand transplant from a killer and he would become a killer.
That's right.
And now here there is getting to be something very similar to that that is being seriously discussed
in medical science.
There you are.
Well, think about it.
I mean, one day, folks, those beds may talk.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dean Koons.
Good morning.
Hello.
Going once?
Yes, sir.
Are you there?
Yes.
Yes.
I don't see you.
It's you.
Go ahead.
I'm sorry, I didn't hear you say East of the Rock.
Is that how I heard it was Rocky?
No, I said East.
Oh, I'm sorry.
Where are you?
Auburn, Indiana, home of the Auburn Corps of Duesenberg.
Okay.
When you guys were talking about future time travel, something came to mind that Stephen Hawking said, and I think he's a brilliant mind, that we haven't seen future time travelers because it hasn't happened yet.
Yeah, the theory is that time travel, there would be not time travelers until Time travel is invented.
Yes.
But of course, if the future is out there, it's ahead of us.
And if you take the view that the past, present, and future already all exist, which is part of the concept of quantum mechanics, then all of time is already out there and somewhere or other.
Yes, it's fascinating.
That was the only question I had.
Art, I haven't heard Lee Hazelwood and Nancy Sinatra.
They wouldn't want us to know they traveled to our time.
It would be nothing for them to gain by making themselves known to us.
Colin?
Yes, that's fascinating.
That was the only question I had.
Art, I haven't heard Lee Hazelwood, Nancy Sinatra.
Did I join you too late?
Lee Hazelwood, yes you did.
Lee Hazelwood was on the air with his son a few days ago.
Oh yeah, I heard that, but I mean the song.
Oh, you mean I haven't played it lately.
Well, it's in the pile here.
I'll get to it.
Don't worry.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dean Kuntz.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi.
Hi.
This is Katherine Sparks.
Yes.
And I'm wondering, Dean, do you have an email address that people could reach you at?
I'm prehistoric here.
I'm now getting about 20,000 letters a year from readers and we respond to all of them so I put an address in the back of each new book that facilitates that but I figure if I ever got emailed I wouldn't be able to cope with it so I've stayed away from that.
Snail mail is my only mail.
Did you ever live in New York City at the very early part of your career?
I used to be in New York a lot.
I lived in Pennsylvania.
I never lived in the city itself.
Or do they?
Maybe they... Maybe they just change.
Sort of happen in a different way, a different place.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Stay right where you are.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 22nd, 2002.
This took place in the starlit skies.
They say that all good things must end someday.
All that remains is much hope.
Coast to Coast Some velvet morning when I'm straight
I'm gonna open up your gate And maybe tell you about Phaedra
I'm gonna open up your gate Some velvet mornin' when I'm straight
And how she gave me life And how she made it in
Some velvet mornin' when I'm straight Flowers growing on our hill
Drows and flies and daffodils Learn from us very much
Look at us but do not touch Phaedra is my name
Some velvet mornin' when I'm straight I'm gonna open up your...
the you're listening to our goals or in time on premier radio
networks tonight on the presentation of coast to coast a m
from january twenty second two thousand two
being conscious here and he's all yours this power This is an eerie song and this is the song that Ben was
talking about.
Pretty eerie, huh?
Phaedra.
What a name.
I am convinced that playing this song, talking about it, and we're going to check the birth records that a year from now, we're going to have a lot of little Phaedras running around out there.
We'll see.
Coast Insider.
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You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 22nd, 2002.
January 22nd, 2002.
Once again, here is Dean Kuntz, and there is, he's got of course many, many books.
His latest is One Door Away from Heaven, in which he actually mentions me.
I'm meant to ask, how did that come about?
Well, I deal with subjects in this book, not to give anything away,
but I deal with the possibility of extraterrestrial life.
And when there was a couple of characters in this book who were fascinated with that subject
and are two of the most fun characters I've ever written, when they were in a conversation
and something untoward had just happened or something particularly strange had happened,
it would fall to them immediately I was writing the piece, when I'm writing dialogue a lot of
times, I'm writing dialogue If it's really going well, I almost don't write it.
It flows as if I'm listening to it.
Yes.
And just out of the blue, one of these Spelkenthaler sisters said, this is a total Art Bell moment.
And it was the most natural thing.
I know that both of them listen to you all the time.
Well, as Jody Foster said in Contact, You know, when you look up at the night sky, and all those stars, and now we know all those planets around all those stars.
Uncountable numbers, really.
If they're not out there, what a great waste of space it would be.
So, what do you think about the possibility of visitation, or of there being life out there?
I think, without question, it's out there, because the vastness of it requires that it be.
And we already are, within the last few years, we've begun to identify planets in solar systems within our own Milky Way that seem to be at the exact correct position from the Sun, from their Sun, to support life as this planet does.
And I think last I heard we're mounting up into the hundreds of those identifiable planets.
That's right.
And we're looking at such a tiny portion of what's out there that we know there must be billions of planets in which it can be supported.
As for visitation here, I can't say that all the UFO lore that makes a lot of sense to me, and one reason is something that hadn't crossed my mind until we were just talking about it, but the subject of nanotechnology.
If nanotechnology works, and I think that it ultimately will, a very advanced civilization capable of traveling across the galaxy is probably going to have just great depth of nanotechnology, which would make it possible, think about this, nanotechnology used in a medical fashion would ultimately make it possible for any species to become shape-changing, and any species with advanced nanotechnology in a medical application should be able to pass for us.
And therefore, I wonder if they're extremely advanced civilizations, why we would even know they were here.
Well, we wouldn't.
That's the answer.
It really is the answer.
We wouldn't know.
The average person, when they hear a click on their line, they think, oh, my line is tapped.
Well, the truth of the matter is that a good phone tap, you're never going to know it's there.
Not in a million years.
There's not going to be a bunch of clicks and crunches and idle, mistaken conversation coming over your phone line.
You're just going to have your phone line tapped, and there's not going to be even the slightest hint that it's being tapped.
So, yeah.
Yeah, that makes sense.
I mean, why would we necessarily even know they're here?
They didn't want us to.
Yeah, I think, to that extent, I question anything's possible, but I wonder about alien abduction stories for the simple reason that if they want to know us and they want to learn about us, they can do it much more subtly than that, and they could be living next door as far as that goes.
And what in God's name do they need with our cows anyway?
You learn about the first calendar space in One Door Away from Heaven.
You actually learn about Clara, who is the first calendar space.
The first calendar space?
Yeah, I actually cover that, too.
It's a bit of UFO lore that I create for the book.
The first calendar space was a Holstein, levitated up to a mothership.
Have some fun with UFO lore in this book.
Obviously.
All right, here it comes again.
First time caller on the line.
You're on the air with Dean Koontz.
Where are you, please?
Good morning, it's Chris from Wheeling, West Virginia.
Yes, sir.
Art, truly a great show tonight and continuously a very informative show.
Thank you.
And a big fan of Dean ever since reading my first Dean Kuhn's book back when I was a small child.
Dean, going back to your comment earlier about the fork and the napkin, have you ever heard, or maybe Art, have you ever heard of a person going You know, falling into one of those slips and then coming back out and being able to recall the information that they've seen or anything like that, kind of a time travel kind of situation?
Well, from the corner of my eye, I ultimately write about exactly that experience toward the end of the book, but never, of course, it would be, if anybody ever did and could prove it, It would be monumental news, but it would be a difficult thing to prove, because, you know, it is with any phenomenon that's outside the pale, you seem, whether it was a true story or not, you seem like a wacko to everybody.
Now, what I have heard is, I've had a number of people tell me that they have suddenly been in a place, in a hotel or, you know, anywhere, and suddenly Everybody was dressed in period costumes.
It's kind of like they were suddenly in the 1800s, but then it was not there long, and it just sort of was there and gone.
And you have to wonder if they just got a little peek through the Swiss cheese holes, you know?
That's akin to those shadow people you were talking about, too, and that little story I mentioned about the Art Deco decor.
I have received lots of stories from people who tell me incidents like that, which I think indicate a glimpse of it.
But never going and interacting and then returning.
I've never had that kind of story.
No, neither have I. All right.
Wild Card Lawyer on the air with Dean Kuntz.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Where are you, sir?
This is Jim.
I'm in Motley, Minnesota.
Okay, Jim.
How are you doing, Art?
Mr. Koontz reminds me of when I taught high school many years ago and I try to block that.
Your book Intensity was wonderful, but the question I have for you is I was just totally overcome with Fear Nothing in the season 8.
Going to write a sequel to that?
I promised in the beginning there were going to be three books, or I implied that there would, and as I started book three, I wrote the first two one after the other, and as I started book three, I was expecting it to be just as long as the first two, and I suddenly realized as I was working on it that it was going to turn into this huge book, and that kind of spooked me.
I said, I don't understand why it's a huge book.
I have to think about it some more, so I put it aside and I've written a few other books
in the meantime, but it will come out probably in 2004 and it's going to be big.
That's great.
Well, thank you very much.
Thank you.
All right.
You said earlier your publishers always kind of want you to repeat what you last did and
They're not creative people.
They're pretty much dollar people.
They're okay, but they're publishers and they're sort of like producers and TV networks and all the rest of it.
They always want to build on success by duplicating.
How hard a fight is that for you?
Until my current publisher, and I'm not saying that just because I've got my current publisher, but I actually dedicated the current book to my publisher and editor.
In the past, everywhere until the last five books, I struggled constantly.
I would turn a book in, and because it was not like the book before it, I was once told, somebody mentioned the book Lightning earlier, my time travel story.
When I delivered that book, my publisher said, this will ruin your career, which is growing nicely, and it can't be published for seven years.
Now, I don't know why seven.
Why not five or nine?
But it had to be put on a shelf, and you've got to write something else, and we entered into a four-month-long battle over that book, and finally it was released, and it was the most successful book I've had to date.
So you have to, when I struggled with that for many years, I was in a state of despair more often than not.
With my new publisher that I went to several books ago, there was this attitude that, you know, you're the one who does this, and we like the fact that it's always different and fresh, so do what you want, and if we ever think you've gone over the top, we'll tell you so, but so far, it's been an ideal relationship.
That's wild.
Well, I guess, to some degree, the track record you've established allows you that latitude, but it's still something that Any newly successful writer is going to be fighting, right?
Oh yeah, absolutely.
I always tell them, you just have to do what you love to do and have faith in what you're doing.
It's like anything in life, you just do what you love to do and do it the way you think it should be done.
If you always did everything, I'm sure in developing your show and everything like that, You had more advice than you could ever have hoped to receive about all the things you were doing wrong or what you should be doing differently.
I still get that.
Oh yeah, and if you listened to it with any degree of seriousness, you wouldn't be Art Bell today.
You'd be Art Bell, but nobody would know who Art Bell was.
It was because you did it your way.
Yeah, they told me I was crazy, crazy.
When I told them what I was going to do, I was going to change the show utterly because I knew what I wanted to do.
How's it going, Art and Dean?
How is it going, Art and Dean?
Just fine.
Great.
Okay, well, kind of a comment slash question.
First of all, I believe in what I'm about to ask you about because at about 20 till the
hour I said, you know, I'm going to focus my will and I'm going to get on and be able
to ask the question and lo and behold, there I am.
Yes, there you are.
Anyhow, the question is, I was wondering what you thought about, there was a previous caller who said something to the effect, where does all the energy come from for these multiple realities?
And my thought is, well, the universe is energy in and of itself, so if we focus our intentions, either consciously or subconsciously, toward good or ill, Well, I can give a fairly succinct answer.
I didn't get a chance.
I got off on a tangent.
actually take place.
So I was kind of wondering what your thoughts on that matter might be and I will go ahead
and listen out the ear.
Okay.
Now where are you by the way?
Oh, I'm sorry.
My name is Dustin in Omaha, Nebraska.
Okay.
Well, we sort of covered that, but Dean?
Well, I can give a fairly succinct answer.
I didn't get a chance.
I got off on a tangent.
It's my nature.
And that fellow asked where did this energy come from.
We got to talking about consciousness being the greatest power in the universe and willpower
being an expression of consciousness.
And we're living in a time where increasingly in molecular biology and quantum mechanics
there is a tendency to see a design universe.
This is something that flies in the face of all the science of the past couple hundred
years, but there's growing weight on the design universe side.
5.
So if we accept the idea that this is a designed universe, a created universe, and not just something that exploded one day, then you go back to what faith, which may be a very intuitive understanding of things, and all faiths end up telling you that the universe was created by an act of will.
what is it said, let there be light, which is energy.
And so energy was created by an act of will, if you believe in a design universe.
So that says that willpower alone can create vast new reservoirs of energy.
And so in the answer to that person's question, the mere willing of vast new energy may create
And that goes back to the whole concept of all religions, that the universe is created, and it goes back to the design universe series of many modern sciences.
All right, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dean Koontz.
Good morning.
Hello.
Hi.
Hi.
How are you doing?
Just fine.
Where are you?
Uh, Sacramento, California.
All right.
And I wanted to tell you that your books are on cassette now for the blind and the handicapped.
Yes, in fact, I just did a book signing where several blind people showed up and had me sign their cassettes.
Oh, where at?
Here in Huntington Beach.
Oh, yeah.
But anyway, a lot of us, once I finish the book and I send it back by mail, you know, then I'm on the phone, oh, get this book, get that book, you know.
It is so interesting.
You didn't use the word intriguing.
That's the word you missed.
You were describing your books and everything, you know?
You didn't use the word intriguing.
Well, I'll let that to you.
Thank you very much for doing it.
Well, anyway, I do appreciate your books.
I don't, uh... I can't see very well, you know?
I have to have my bifocals plus the magnifying glass, so it's kind of hard to concentrate on a book.
Well, books on tape are a blessing, not just for those without sight, but for those who travel or are on the road a lot.
They're a blessing.
Are you putting most of your books, or a lot of them, on tape, Dean?
You know, originally, when they put books on tape, they only would do abridged versions, and so I licensed one of those, and it was so horrid that they cut 75% of the novel, and I said, I'll never license that again.
So for years I didn't license, and then finally they started doing Well, in the beginning, too, it was a cold reading, and now you've got them acted virtually, and it's pretty good stuff.
If you're on the road, you don't have to be outside to enjoy books on tape.
I've certainly found that one out.
When you're driving, music after a while just about puts you to sleep.
However, talk or a story stimulates your brain and keeps you alert.
I have a lot of fans who are truck drivers and they listen to them on tape.
Exactly.
By the way, do you have any idea why, and this is a question that works for my program and your books, why do you think people love to scare the hell out of themselves?
Well, there's a lot of standard answers to that.
I think in part it's...
Yeah, life is pretty scary.
We never know what's coming two minutes from now.
Suspense is the most natural thing.
That's why it amazes me that books with suspense in them, or scary elements, there's a contingent of the literary community always puts them down for that.
And I think there's nothing more natural or true to life than suspense, because we live with it every minute of our lives, not knowing what's going to happen to us next.
And because life has that quality to it, I think when you can go into a story and you can encounter some of your worst fears, but it's resolved within that story, you don't get that resolution in life.
And so it's something that gives you a little sense of hope and satisfaction.
I think that's one reason people like to be scared.
Well said.
All right.
Hold on.
We're at the bottom of the hour already.
I'm Art Bell.
The Honorable Dean Koontz.
Stay right where you are and we'll be right back.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 22nd, 2002.
Hold it close to you.
Those night sky colors.
Feel the breezy summers.
Makes you think of all the world.
It's a sunny day, oh yeah.
I've got a knife on camera.
I look in the photograph, and Mama says, My poor little baby.
And I look in the photograph, and Mama says, My poor little baby.
And I look in the photograph, and Mama says, My poor little baby.
And I look in the photograph, and Mama says, You know it don't come easy.
It don't come easy.
You know it don't come easy.
Bust a few shoes if you want to see the blues, And you know it don't come easy.
You don't have to shout or think about you, Can even play them easy.
Get a job.
If the future was last, it will soon be your tomorrow.
And all your sorrows If the future was last
It will soon be your tomorrow I don't ask for much, I only want the best
And you know it won't come easy And this love of mine keeps growing all the time
And you know it just ain't easy Open up your heart, let's jump together
Use our little more and we will make it work out better You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 22nd
I'm Art Bell.
My guest is Dean Kuntz.
We're on the phone with him.
You're on the phone with him, that is.
stay right there now we take you back to the night of january twenty second
two thousand two on art bells somewhere in time
the Dean, when you see one of your books turned into a movie, what's that like?
Painful?
Is it painful?
Most of the time, when I've had something turned into a film and family or friends, I see it, of course, before it's out there to the public.
And the family and friends will ask me, how good is it?
And I usually have, too often, I've had the answer.
If you have a choice between seeing this movie and nailing your hand to a wall, nailing your hand to a wall would be a lot more entertaining.
I just wish I could get somebody to develop them like they really are, but I've had a few good experiences.
Intensity was an excellent miniseries and I've had a few close ones, but I can't say it's been a satisfying experience generally.
That's what most authors seem to say.
First of all, I really appreciate the show.
I just got turned on to it after working some late nights.
I'm actually in Laguna Nigga, California.
Okay, hi.
Yeah, I thought you'd recognize that there, Dean.
First of all, I really appreciate the show.
I just got turned on to it after working some late nights and it really has opened my mind
to a lot of things and actually reaffirmed a lot of my own thoughts that I kind of thought
I was by myself about.
You do a really good job of interpreting and speaking with most of your guests, even the
five percent that really don't make any sense at all i think
Thank you.
Dean, I'd like to say you're obviously my favorite author.
Dad first turned me on to one of your books about five or six years ago, and as soon as I heard the descriptiveness, it was just The detail is unreal.
When the killer traveled up Gold Lantern Parkway into the Mediterranean apartments at the top of the hill, it was two complexes over from where I was living, so it pretty much had me hooked from there.
It was amazing to actually be, I felt like I was deeper and deeper a part of the stories, and I've pretty much read every book since.
I was just wondering, how do you go about, first of all, definitely include, if you can, more of that South County flavor in some of your books.
It's always going to have me reading, you know, copy after copy.
But I have a question.
I was wondering, most of your ideas for your books are original.
I mean, they're so variated from Icebound to most of the paranormal, supernatural variations and some of the mysteries and stuff.
I was wondering if most of your ideas are straight original or if you employ maybe a You know, get copies of submitted stories to you or how do
you go about that?
All good questions.
Or do you have dreams or do you wake up in the morning and say, Oh my God, I've got one.
I've got one.
I've never found my dreams being very useful to turn into anything.
And as for a think tank, I don't know.
I think most writers are probably like this, but I know I am.
To work up the energy and the passion to write a novel of some length, the idea has to spring out of my own strange head.
Other people's ideas can look perfectly fine to me, but if I were to sit down and try to write it I would have no interest in it.
Uh, it has to be something that's secret and held within me and that you kind of create almost as if you're feeling you're giving a gift to somebody and you don't want them to know what it is until it's finished.
So, uh, they, they all come from within and basically come from looking at the world around me and thinking, what if?
But is there, there must be times, uh, with all the books you've written when, when you go, I know, I know what I'm going to do.
Yeah.
There are those moments, but often they're character driven, so I don't really know where it's going, but I may get that little momentary thing.
Sometimes it'll just be a little glimpse, sometimes it'll be what you'd almost call a gimmick, but those kind of books I end up not writing.
It's generally a situation that occurs to me that sounds interesting, and then I find out where it goes from there.
Well, now, there's also an interesting question.
How many books do you begin, and then, you know, you get through a few chapters and you say, this isn't a book, I quit?
You know, in my youth, that happened frequently, but the older I got, the more I got past that, and now, if I put a book aside, it always gets finished, because I only, I seem to only begin ones that I
ultimately know what to do with and Once in a while, it's necessary at the midway point to say
wow There's stuff happening here that I have to take more time
to ponder because I'm not ready to write where this is going
And but then I may go and do another book and then go back to it and there it is and I've figured it out
now has the reality of the whole 9-11 thing which was
Surreal for everybody to watch and see and be part of it It was just all surreal.
Has that changed anything in your world?
Well, I think it's changed all of us.
When I was writing One Door Away from Heaven, even though it was published in December, I was still writing it in September, and I was still polishing it up.
The day I was supposed to send it off to my publisher was September 11th, and FedEx, of course, wasn't operating then.
When I was writing that book, I was concerned that maybe it was too funny for a suspense
novel and maybe certain elements of it dealing with is there life after death, is there a
soul, those kind of questions for a suspense novel might have become too much of the story.
However, after everybody read the book, Bond Delivery said, you know what?
9-11 changed the world in such a way that this is absolutely the right book for the
moment.
That's the way I felt too, is if I was prescient about those things, we need something that
we can laugh at and that we also need, I think, to, I don't know if we need to, but I think
we are all more interested in thinking about the issues of why we're here and what it all
means.
I believe we are too.
Right.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dean Koontz.
Good morning.
Good morning, gentlemen.
This is Dean calling from Tampa, Florida.
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
Yes.
Actually, you mentioned past lives.
I'm a firm believer in old souls.
In fact, I think a lot of people that are artistic and creative and express themselves like you do, sir, I believe we draw upon even our old souls or even past lives within ourselves because you mentioned that when you're right.
You felt it was almost in a sense where you're listening to almost like a narration, in a sense.
My question to you, sir, is do you often think that sometimes almost like you're having help, not only from within yourself, but also maybe from drawn on, from maybe almost an old soul situation, maybe even a past life?
Because I think as somebody who's got so many characters as you do, to paint such a picture as you do, I think sometimes it's not only just the imagination, but I think we draw within something maybe some people find hard to even explain in mere words.
I can tell you that that thought passes through your mind at times.
I go back to something I said earlier.
I was eight years old.
I was writing stories and drawing little covers and stapling one margin.
I was a considerate kid so I put electrician tape over the staples so nobody hurt themselves.
And where was that coming from?
Because I lived in a house with no books.
We were very poor.
My father was a violent alcoholic, and books were not only shunned and frowned upon, but considered such a waste of time that there was never one in our house.
And yet there I was at a very young age, drawn to do this, and I sometimes wonder, Just about what you're talking about, as if I had done this before.
It came to me as something so natural to do.
Do you embrace reincarnation?
Have you thought about it?
As I said, I do think about it.
I don't know what I think about it.
It strikes me as one of the scariest ideas I can think of, actually, how we struggle in life to get where we are and to think you might begin it all over again.
Perhaps at a greater level of struggle.
Of course, we all like to think that if we're reincarnated, we'll be princesses and kings, but somehow it seems to me that if I'm reincarnated, I'll be starting all over at the bottom again.
That kind of spooks me.
Back to the staples.
All right, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dean Kuntz.
Good morning.
Where are you, please?
Good morning.
This is Mark.
I'm calling from Washington, Pennsylvania.
I'm an over-the-road truck driver, so I love your books on tape.
Absolutely love them.
There you go.
I got two quick, well actually now it's three questions.
Do you have any book signings coming up, and where can we find out when and where they are?
You know, I think I'm the only writer who has never done a national tour.
I never have gone on a book tour and I occasionally do signings here in California, but I've never
been much of a promotionally oriented guy.
I've done as little media as I can.
This is unusual for me.
You must have a good publisher.
You know, it was word of mouth.
I never had any major advertising until I was already number one best seller.
So I bless those people out there who pass it word of mouth to one another.
I think I may have lost your question, but I don't do many book tours.
Second question, both of them have to do with Dark Rivers of the Heart.
Are we going to see Roy Murrow again?
I left him alive at the end of that book, but God, I hope I never encounter him.
I don't think we'll be back to Roy.
I get so interested in new characters that come to me that it's hard for me to revisit somebody I've already written about.
And you know, it's hard for the readers not to want to revisit somebody you've already created.
Oh, absolutely.
It's one of the things you get all the time is, please bring back those characters.
Please redo that story.
And you think, well, I'm in my head on to something else now, so it's kind of hard to get back.
Well, there you are.
Okay, one last quick question.
In the interview, I don't know if it was in the book, but on the book on tape you had an interview at the end of Dark Rivers of the Heart.
Did the book come before the political views, or did the political views influence the book?
I think there was a little bit of both.
Some of the political views were there before the book, and then as you write about it, books change you.
I think that's always a sign for me if the book is working that things evolve in your thinking as you're working on the book that are new to you and that you begin to convince yourself are things you needed to think and develop.
Books always change you and always teach me things as I write them.
Your worldview, how do you think we're doing?
Do you think society is headed down, ultimately, the right road?
All taking, you know, the Middle East, and India, and Pakistan, and China, and Afghanistan, and the terror, and all the rest of it.
Do you think we're headed, ultimately, down a sorry path, or it'll all come out alright?
I mean, you're the... You know, I have thought for the longest time we're headed down a terrible path, a very dark one.
And the world keeps getting more and more irrational the longer I'm alive.
And certainly from the days I was a child, the world is more irrational than it was then.
And yet, the strangest thing, I think I'm not alone in this, that in that terrible event of 9-11, it's hard to imagine there could be any silver lining in something that dark.
And yet there is, in a way, I feel.
Maybe that's what life is about, in part, because I have felt since then that so many people in my life have changed attitudes and changed perceptions.
At first, I thought we were going to be very transitory, that we were going to last for a couple of weeks, and I was going to see those attitudes slide back to what they were.
It seems to me that it has changed people in a fundamental way and that they are more open to the thought that There is meaning and purpose in life and that they're here for something more than just to have a party.
And I think that's all for the better and the potential of saving us.
There's an analogy I like that I tell the people when they... I wrote a book, I mentioned it before tonight, From the Corner of His Eye, and the underlying theme of that book was that all our lives are so intimately interconnected that it's breathtaking if you stop to look at it.
And that things you do in your life and every choice you make affect people that you will never meet, because something you do to somebody that's a great kindness may change them in a way that they pass that along to somebody else, and it ricochets, and so do bad deeds, in a way.
And that if we really look at human society, it's like an aspen grove.
You look at a grove of aspens, and there are a great number of trees, but an aspen grove shares the same root structure, and underground, it's all one in interconnected secretness.
And I think all of human civilization and human experience is very much like that, except that we're oblivious of it.
And I think events like this start to wake us up to the fact that how deeply intercapted our lives are and give us a chance to start thinking more openly.
It's one of the pleasures for me of being on your show is to exercise that open thinking.
I'm so honored to have you here.
You don't do a lot of appearances like this.
And I, outside of the program that I do, I don't either.
I shun them.
I don't do television.
I hate TV.
I've turned down billions of things, it seems like.
And I just, somehow I've always felt that this is what I should be doing, not other things.
And I've just turned them all down.
And apparently you're much the same way in that you don't do the National Book Tours, and yet your books succeed anyway.
That isn't what makes them.
I've turned down all those.
Morning shows that you're supposed to have to do, and the TV I've done was basically, I went on Tom Snyder a number of times when he was on there, and that was because you could sit and talk for a 20 or 30 minute segment, and it was like real people talking to each other.
Kind of like this, same format, yes.
Tom Snyder, I've enjoyed him a lot.
Wes to the Rockies, you're on there with Dean Koontz, not a lot of time, hello.
Hi, my name is Valerie and I'm from Oregon.
Yes, Valerie.
I had, first of all, I want to make a comment that I thought what Dean said about everybody being interconnected and how everything that we do affects each other.
That's right.
It's always been something I believe, it's like we're all part of the same pond and one ripple affects everybody.
But anyway, I just wanted to know, what does Dean Coombs read when he wants to relax and get back?
And does it affect, do you stay away from fiction because maybe it might affect your own ideas?
And you might subconsciously grab something from what you read.
Oh, that's a very good question.
What do you read, Dean, or do you?
Well, when I was younger, and not too many years ago, probably until about eight or nine years ago, I read a couple hundred novels a year.
That never bothered me.
It didn't energize me to read fiction that I liked by other people, but as the years passed, You've read hundreds and hundreds and ultimately a couple thousand novels.
You get harder and harder to please.
Especially when you're doing it every day and you think you're improving and struggling to improve and polish and learn better.
Then you start seeing the tricks in other books and so it becomes a little harder.
But I still read people.
A lot of people for pleasure.
Jim Harrison, Ann Tyler.
I always go back and reread Dickens.
But a lot of my reading is non-fiction.
I'm interested in biographies and science of all forms.
I've always been interested in.
You seem to be a very intelligent man.
Well, I talk to my wife.
Wives don't count.
Ah, all right.
Just one last question, if that's okay.
Sure, go ahead and fire away.
Okay.
I was just curious about...
Oh, dang it, my brain just flew away like a little bird out of my head.
Brain lock.
Yeah, I had it, but it's gone.
So, thank you very much.
Well, thank you very much for calling in.
Take care.
One Door Away from Heaven is now available in bookstores, I take it, and the ever-discounting Amazon.com.
Thank God for all of those outlets.
Yes, indeed.
I've often wondered how Amazon.com is going to continue doing what they're doing without going broke and becoming a gone dot com.
But they're doing very well.
I don't pretend to understand any dot com business where you seem to lose money on every deal but make it up in volume.
Right, so people can get your book there.
We've got a link on my website for them to do that and any of your other books.
If you were to recommend, of course, an author is always going to say his last book, the one that you've got out right now, but other than your last book, eliminating that from the question, if you were to recommend any book as the first book, Dean Kuhn's book, anybody should read, what would it be?
I can't give one, but I'd pick From the Corner of His Eye, and Watchers, Lightning, Fear nothing.
That little group has won me a lot of followers.
All right.
Dean, what a pleasure it has been to have you on the program.
Thank you.
Thanks for having me there.
And I want you back again sometime.
Anytime.
Take care, my friend.
Take care.
Good night.
From the high desert.
All our times have come.
Ta-ta.
We're fucked down again.
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