Art Bell welcomes Penelope Smith, a renowned animal communicator, and Richard C. Hoagland, who discusses his Hollywood project with RKO Radio Pictures exploring lunar/Martian cover-ups, referencing Monuments of Mars and its sequel Heritage. Hoagland links government secrecy to chemtrails, citing Congressman Dennis Kucinich’s 2001 H.R. 2977, which bans atmospheric mind-control tech. Smith reveals animals perceive humans through energy, smell, and telepathy—cats feel aggression before contact, dogs cry over harm, and even flies enter "ecstasy" during communion. She argues all species, from domesticated pets to wild cougars, recognize human intentions, with dolphins and whales like Humphrey beaching themselves to convey messages. Trust, respect, and open communication are key; animals adapt to human roles but may resist unnatural conditions like declawing or zoos. Ultimately, their insights challenge how we view consciousness, ethics, and the hidden bonds between species and secrecy. [Automatically generated summary]
I bid you all good morning, good afternoon, good evening, whatever the case may be, wherever you are in all 24 time zones covered by this program.
I'm Art Bell, and the program is Coast to Coast AM.
Well, this is going to be a very, very interesting night, I predict.
For a long, long, long time, I've been trying to get an animal communicator that I could communicate with, and hence you could communicate with.
And what we have discovered is that all roads lead to Penelope Smith as the best there is.
I mean, all the other animal communicators refer constantly to Penelope Smith.
So it seemed to make some sense to go to Penelope Smith.
That's exactly where we're going tonight in the next hour.
Now, in this hour, in a moment, I have for you a surprise.
All right, just before my little surprise, tomorrow night is open lines, as I traditionally have on this program.
You know, I do a great week of interviews during the week of, but then Friday night, Saturday morning, it's open for anything you want to do.
And as I always do every week, I would encourage any of you with any really good ideas about a special line, which, as you know, I enjoy running, the weirder the better, to submit your idea to me an email.
That would be artbell at mindspring.com.
Artbell at mindspring.com.
And I will pluck from the submissions the very best one, and we will do something probably fairly weird tomorrow night.
You should see some.
One night I'm going to read to you the various suggestions that are made.
I'll do that.
And you can see how my selection process for whatever I do every week, you know, is arrived at.
Now, he's been a friend for years and years and years.
He was a one-time advisor to NASA and, of course, to Walter C. Kronkait.
After this is all over, I want to talk to Paul because I would think writing opposite you that would be like Chinese torture.
I mean, I can just see you getting so technical, Paul's head is swimming, and Paul trying to unravel it on the other end and sending you back a script.
Well, you know, as we said when we were on the show last week and we announced this, which I think politically is a really major step forward, and I'll get to a couple of affirmations of that in a minute.
This is, you know, this is a fun process.
This is where people live.
When you think of Hollywood, you think of the big screen, most of the major social changes of our time have occurred in movies or on television.
So if you can get your foot in the door to put the message out there, high, wide, and handsome, you have an extraordinary opportunity, and we're going to try to take advantage of the opportunity that we have.
But you're absolutely right.
When we do this back and forth, there are times when he does think that, you know, certain points I want to make sure that we get into this might be lost on the average moviegoer.
And it's already had surprises in this process because remember, we promised you we were going to keep everybody apprised of the process.
I have never done a movie before, so what I'm thinking is that this would be a really interesting way that people can find out, all hype notwithstanding, how this is really done.
A name is one thing, but you've got people behind the name.
And the people we're working with, you know, like Tom Mountain, as I mentioned last week, are absolutely top drawer.
Tom was president of Universal during some very creative periods in his life, very young.
He's aggressive, he's imaginative, he has vision.
And he and I talked, I guess, a couple days ago, and he was telling me that the most amazing thing to him and the other folks at the studio is how many emails they have been getting.
I mean, Art, everybody listens to your show.
If I wanted proof of that, this has been my evidence.
He's on his way in at 6.45 the other morning, he says, you know, and his ritual, he told me, is to stop at his little place somewhere in Beverly Hills and pick up a Danish or something with coffee to take it into the office where he gets, I guess, about 7 o'clock.
So he's standing there ready to pay for his Danish, and the guy across the county looks at him and says, and I kid you not, what's this project you and Hoagland are doing?
unidentified
I mean, here is this top Hollywood movie executive.
And he's wondering where all this buzz is coming from.
Paul was at a party the other night.
You know, like the poor party he has to, he's at right tonight, even as we're speaking.
And the buzz was our picture.
And this is pretty unprecedented.
I actually checked with Tom on this.
He said that as far as he knows in the industry, there has never been this amount of excitement regarding a major project where there are no stars attached to it yet.
I mean, we have a lot of extra roles, and we're looking at a way to devise a just and fair process.
And as I said last week, to start with, I would like to have people who are familiar with our work since the film is going to be based on our research into what's on the moon and Mars and out there and the government cover-ups and all that.
If people haven't read the Monuments of Mars, it will kind of leave them behind the eight ball.
And people are responding extraordinarily.
I gave out an 800 number for people who want to get the new signed version of Monuments.
I will personally sit here and work my little fingers to the bone for you guys.
It's a 2001 edition.
It's going to be the last edition of Monuments We'll Do because the follow-on is going to be called Heritage.
But I've got about 100 new pages of neat stuff and things that no one's heard about or few have heard about.
About 40 pages of new images, some of the stunning imagery that Mike Malin has at great pains been forced to give us.
And that will be a kind of a collector's item.
Now, the most extraordinary thing to me is not only that I can include folks from your audience who would like to play in the sandbox, but we've been getting resumes from professionals, a lot of top-door people, production people, camera people, actors.
I got one the other day, and I'm not going to use names now because, frankly, given what we're doing, I'm waiting for the shoe to fall, you know, the other side to do what they're going to try to do to stop this.
But we've had some incredible resumes come through of people who are in the industry, household names, and who you would recognize if you sit and are above film credits, like I am.
Let me give you just one example without naming a name.
This guy started out with Stanley Kubrick with 2001.
And his resume goes on to stunning major films all the way up to the present.
He literally called me when I called him back from Universal.
He was on the set at Universal working on a picture.
And he not only is a pro in the industry and wants to play a key role, but he followed our research.
He knew exactly what I've been doing listening to you.
And I mean, that's the level of response we're getting.
And I must say that I did not expect that.
I expected a lot of ordinary folks to be thrilled and excited and interested and intrigued.
You know, a normal contrail, you'll look up in the sky, you'll see a jet, you know, 40,000 feet, and for a few degrees behind it, you know, like the width of your hand held out at arms, your fist, you know, you'll see water vapor out the back, and then it disappears.
It dissipates.
Chemtrails cross the sky.
They crisscross.
They linger.
They expand.
They become a haze.
They don't dissipate.
They're not, under any observation, normal contrails of jet aircraft.
Well, the other day, information came to my attention that in October of 2001, and the reason we all missed this, of course, is because it was in the wake of 9-11, Congressman Dennis Kucinich from Ohio introduced House Resolution 2977 in the first session of the 107th Congress, in which, among other things, he seeks to ban chemtrails.
Now, what's important is not that the bill has been introduced because about only 6% of all bills introduced ever remained into law art, but the fact that in the bill's language, chemtrails are listed by definition as chemical or biological effluents that are released in the vicinity of human beings.
Now, I wonder how, Richard, he could put that in there without having some greater basis for belief that something is going on other than people who have been on this program, for example.
Well, I think he obviously must know something because he's the first congressman out of 535 who has the conies to actually do this, to formally put in official legal language this term chemtrails, which a lot of us have been using over the last couple, three years.
And what's remarkable is that this is in the face of complete denial by a battery of media and legal and other representative experts who claim that this is a phenomenon that does not exist.
That we're all kind of crazy out here who think that there's something different about jet exhausts than in past years.
So here's a congressman who's put his reputation on the line and said chemtrails are real, they exist, and they should be made illegal.
Now, obviously, my first thought when I saw this was, we've got to get this guy on your show.
It's called, in the short term, the Space Preservation Act of 2001.
And it seeks, quote, to preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benefit of all mankind by permanently prohibiting the basing of weapons in space by the United States and to require the president to take action and implement a world treaty banning space-based weapons.
Mel in Cleveland, Ohio, and he would know, I guess, says Dennis Kucinich, the gentleman who has introduced the bill to ban chemtrails, was at one time the mayor of Cleveland in the late 60s.
I mean, basically spreading fine divided aerosols in the upper atmosphere, in the stratosphere, where they don't come down for a long time, to act as little tiny parasols to shield us from solar radiation.
Government Secrets and Solar System Changes00:15:31
But Art, the corollary in representative government, as the United States is supposed to be a representative government, is you're included in the decision-making loop.
That's why you have, you know, when you have laws or bills put up, you have House and Senate hearings, you have open public debate, you have discussion, you have consensus, and then you're supposed to enact whatever policies with.
The only thing here is that if you were to make public something like this, you're doing this obviously as a last-ditch emergency effort to fix something that's profoundly wrong.
And so not only do you have to admit the project, but the reason for it, the reason for it would scare the hell out of people.
But the problem of doing it the way they're doing is that at the very time when you need an integrity of government issue to come to the fore, people trusting that their leaders really have their best interest at heart and are doing the best they can.
Yeah, well, in this case, as we discussed last week, if the reason for global warming has nothing to do with the car you drive, but is in fact endemic in the physics of the solar system, and I was intrigued that one of your guests this week, you know, I've been up late writing, so who do I listen to?
God, thank God there's a friend of mine on the air who's got good guests.
Yes.
He mentioned that this was going on all over the solar system.
In addition to planets that we'd mentioned last week, he threw in a few more in the pot.
I think he said Saturn was brightening and other places are changing.
So if this is endemic to the whole solar system, as the hyperdimensional model says, then this chemtrail thing is a desperate last-gap stopgap measure that really is not adequate to the task.
Now, the reason you would do that is because you don't know any better, that you don't understand the physics of the cause, therefore you cannot even begin to think of the physics of the solution because you are a tightly closed in-group that doesn't get any information coming in from the outside, that makes policy in a vacuum, and is doing dumb, stupid stuff because you're not bringing in people that might show you how to do bright, non-stupid stuff.
You see what I, this is why you need a public discussion and debate.
The founding fathers were not dummies.
They understood that public policy that is formulated in the back room can sometimes go radically awry because it doesn't get the right expertise coming into the room to say, wait a minute, guys, do this as opposed to that.
Okay, but again, I really do say that if it was something that radical for which we're seeking or attempting a remedy, then I understand why they wouldn't make it public.
I really do.
I understand that we would all like the public debate, but there'd be more than that, Richard.
Whenever bureaucracy now doesn't want to be embarrassed, it puts a classified stamp on something, therefore no one can get at it.
So you have this runaway.
And, you know, Steve Bassett has talked about this at great length on your show, that we need to redo or reassess or rethink the national security state that we got into back in 1947, because with the Cold War over and the threats of a totally different nature, these kinds of public policy issues need to be publicly discussed.
Now, suppose we are confronting this huge change of the physics of the solar system that is adversely going to affect us here on Earth.
How long can you keep it secret?
You know, at some point, you know, the mainstream is going to get wind of it.
And as I said before, when they find that government has lied to them, look at the Enron.
The anger is that a few people basically made lifeboats of themselves and let everybody else sink with the Titanic while telling them everything was okay.
I don't disagree with you, but I also say there is a good argument on the other side, Richard.
They've done studies, as you know, and I think they're still valid if something was really profoundly wrong and there wasn't much being done about it or that could be done about it.
A global temperature rise of this magnitude, solar system-wide, obviously not confined just to Earth, tells us that it's something that's big.
And if it's based in this physics, the first thing you'd have to do is to figure out how to work with the physics, make technologies that could use this physics to, for instance, change the local heat balance in various regions of the Earth.
Now, who might have that expertise now that has been working with this physics for the last 50 years if, as I said last week, the thing that's happening?
In other words, I'm talking about the military, you know, industrial black projects folks who are not talking to the public policy folks.
By definition, the things they've been working on are so top secret that it's burned before reading.
So if you have, as Cool Hand Luke said, a failure to communicate, government's left hand doesn't know what the right hand is.
I mean, the president is sitting there.
He is not aware of everything this government has ever done or knows how to do.
And I would be betting dollars to Navy beans that the cabinet doesn't either.
That even people like the head of the EPA or the Secretary of the Interior is not aware of these deep black military projects that have been using this physics.
And how do I know?
Because I come back, Art, to what you said to a guest earlier this week.
In fact, it was my old friend David Brin you had on the air the night following me last week.
He claimed that, oh, there'd be nothing ever covered up and scientists would be irascible.
By the way, you never asked him the simple question, what happens if they sign a secrecy oath and can go to Lebanon if they talk?
You know, I don't care how irascible you are.
Spending the rest of your life in a federal pen is not something that somebody is going to do willingly if they've signed an agreement to get in on the good stuff, to be part of the in-crowd.
But his point was that these kind of technologies are so exciting that at some point someone's going to spill the beans.
And my point was, or is that, yeah, unless you sign an agreement where they can put you away for life if you do spill the beans and maybe take other measures to make sure that you don't give into that tendency.
So if we are confronted with a huge global problem, like warming because of an intrinsic physics that the mainstream of physicists at Caltech and MIT and whatever are not even aware of, things that go back to where Maxwell deviated 100 years ago, as we've said on this show, and the only people who do understand that are a tiny group working with super toys like you had fly over you there out there in the desert.
The only way then to get that information out to solve the problem is to break it out of the black ball, to get it into public view.
But of course, that's not going to happen because we have enemies.
And the military mind is to classify things forever.
A secret is a secret is a secret.
So when you have a compartmentalized society where, again, the left hand does not know what the right hand knows, you are setting yourself up for a situation where when you're confronted by this kind of a problem, you don't have the wherewithal to solve it.
Yeah, but not officially setting up a subversion of the Constitution, which happened in 1947 with the National Secrets Act.
At that point, we took another trail.
And what people like Steve and others have been arguing, and our old friend Stephen Greer is arguing, is that it's time to rein it in, that we're basically going to commit suicide if we keep going down this trail where various small groups know more and more about less and less and cannot talk to each other.
And that's why Kucinich's bill, I mean, let me read you a couple examples of the things that he tackled.
By the way, for people who want to actually go and read the language themselves and prove to themselves that we're not making this up, you go to the Thomas Register, which is HTTP colon, I'm sorry, colon forward slash forward slash thomas.loc.gov.
In the bill, he covers things such as, I mean, this is pretty astonishing.
Let me go down to the specific specifics here.
Okay.
The term weapon and weapon system mean a device capable of any of the following, damage or destroying an object, whether in outer space, in the atmosphere on the Earth by firing projectiles, detonating explosives, directing a source of energy, including molecular or atomic energy, subatomic particle beams, electromagnetic radiation, plasma, or extremely low frequency or ultra-low frequency energy,
inflicting death or injury on or damaging or destroying a person or the biological life, bodily health, mental health, physical, and economic well-being of a person through use of land-based, sea-based, or space-based systems using radiation, electromagnetic, psychotronic.
Sonic, laser, or other energies directed at individual persons or targeted populations for the purpose, get this, of information war, mood management, or mind control.
Well, I sure would like to know, one, what he bases some of this on.
In other words, what his beliefs are, and specifically what knowledge he has, or if he doesn't have specific knowledge, then what made him decide to write all this in?
He's finally decided that something is rotten in Denmark.
And as a representative of his constituency, he put the bill in.
As I said, 6% usually get into law, so 94% don't make it.
So obviously the next step I would see is you have him on the show.
And this audience, if they're interested and concerned, they ask him a bunch of questions, and then they provide evidence of support for this bill to his colleagues, and that's how you get the job done.
Now, remember, what I said about the reason I'm so excited about this movie is not because I'm going to meet Julie Roberts someday, but because can you imagine the political lever and the congressman we can acquaint with a constituency that believes in the viability of asking questions about what's on the moon and Mars that they haven't told us about?
Well, here's something I've been waiting to do for a long time.
I have interviewed quite a number of very pleasant people who claim to be animal communicators, and I'm sure are, but I've never been satisfied with the program that we've done.
One wild cat, well, I won't go through the menagerie here.
One very wild cat.
He's still wild.
He's kind of cool with me, but he's generally otherwise totally wild, completely wild, and always will be, save what he and I have worked out together, and we've worked out a lot.
Anyway, I've always wanted to know what animals think about.
What animals think.
I don't know.
What they think of us, what they think of their environment, what they think of when they're having fun, what they dream about.
I've always felt and feel now that, you know, knowing my four cats as I do, that they have absolute distinct snowflake-like personalities.
And so I have believed for a long time, contrary to what many people believe, that animals have souls.
I believe that too, in case you're interested.
Convinced they do.
But beyond that, I don't know a lot of what they think about themselves, their fellow animals, human beings, the whole environment.
And so here comes Penelope Smith.
Communicating with animals telepathically throughout her life, Penelope Smith discovered in 1971 that animals could be relieved of emotional traumas and other problems through the same counseling techniques that help humans.
The training and experience that have contributed to her success and her educational background with bachelor's and master's degrees in the social sciences, years of training and experience in human counseling, nutrition, holistic body-energy balancing methods, research into animal nutrition, anatomy, behavior, and care, plus the first-hand education from the thousands of animals she has contacted.
Penelope's visionary work has been featured in newspapers and magazine articles, numerous books, radio and TV in the U.S. and all over the world.
As a leading pioneer in this field, she has developed tried and true telepathic communication techniques which complement current scientific knowledge and traditional methods.
Her methods foster people's ability to understand and communicate with animals on all levels, physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual.
She is the world's leading teacher of basic and advanced interspecies telepathic communication and has helped launch the careers of numerous professional animal communicators.
Penelope feels that the sacred connection we make through telepathic communication with other species is essential for human wholeness.
She believes that everyone is born with the power to communicate with other species, that although it is a long lost thing for most people, it can be regained for the benefit of all beings on earth.
Since there was no point where it actually began, I can only ask you in a general sense: in what way you communicate with animals?
What comes back to you?
Is there an actual communication or is there sort of a knowing if you ask a question or make a query or do animals just occasionally speak up to you on their own?
It's just like communicating with you, only without the human language.
I listen to them, I open to them, I communicate to them.
They get what's behind my words if I speak in words.
They get the thoughts and the feelings behind the words.
And what I get from them are all what I call tele telepathy is like internal feelings.
It's like your internal senses.
And so what I get back from them are images, feelings, thoughts, all of which I translate into words.
So it's all the senses internally received from the animal, which gives me an insight into their world.
In fact, I can feel what they feel, sense both physiologically and emotionally what's going on with them, feel how they see the world, even see how they see, hear how they hear.
So that's real deep telepathy is the deepest connection is when you actually, it's like becoming the animal, becoming one with them.
There's a lot of difference among species and among individuals.
So let's say you're comparing a snake and a dog.
A snake has whole different senses than a dog does and a whole different experiential feeling about the world.
Snakes are generally not domesticated, although there are domesticated snakes.
So they're wild animals and dogs are generally domesticated and so they pick up a lot of the environmental cues from people and they start even thinking like people and responding like people the more they're around people because they have to get along with people.
So a snake and a dog, there's a lot of difference in the way they think.
Say you're sitting with them in the woods or wherever, or even a snake that is in somebody's aquarium.
You sit with them, they perceive and feel the world very differently than a dog.
So they're not so oriented.
Well, dogs are oriented, of course, very much by their smell, but dogs also have very keen hearing, touch in a different way, and they have a whole different compilation of senses.
So a snake doesn't respond in the same way.
The snake is feeling and sensing in like a lot of reptiles sense very electrically.
They hear very keenly, but they also sense energy almost like electricity.
They can experience heat even from pretty far distance.
And so when you're coming up to them, they're not so much looking at you, although they can see that isn't their main sense.
They're experiencing you as an energy form, and they get your intentions.
Now, all animals get your intentions.
All animals, whatever form, from slugs to elephants, can perceive intentions coming toward them.
And by intentions, I mean what it is you're feeling toward the animal, what it is you want to do.
It's not necessarily what you're verbalizing, but what your energy is projecting out.
So if you have an aggressive energy and your intention is to kill the snake, the snake feels that as an impact.
They actually feel it coming toward them.
And they may not even necessarily know it's coming from a human or a dog or whatever, because they may not perceive that, but they feel that intention strong and clear, and so they start to react to it.
And then there's, like, you can describe, like, I've been with a lot of different animals and experience them deeply, how they feel, how they think.
And you can go inside their world, and then there's their individual, also when you get comfortable with them and they're comfortable with you, and you can ask them questions about their world, that's another different experience.
Because they all are spiritual beings, again, in different kind of bodies with different kind of body forms, so they have whole different experiences of the world.
But they all seem to share this sort of spiritual undercurrent of connection and understanding sort of of the basic, the basics of life, in some ways better than we do, because we tend to forget and get lost in our mental complexities.
I mean, I guess I'm asking, let me try it like this.
Would you say that there are a lot of goats or koalas or some other sort of species out there that's sort of saying to itself, you know, damn it, what's with this dog and cat thing?
We'd be really good with humans.
You know, we'd be good with humans and we're just rejected.
When you connect with them, they almost forget about your species.
When you really truly connect, you drop the negative intentions toward them.
You drop the fact that humans are often step on animals and push them out of the way.
If you just sort of get into a quiet space with animals and be with them, they pretty soon drop the fear and the fact that you are human and a different species and start communicating to you as a fellow being.
Now they, again, have totally different viewpoints of the world, which you can learn from enormously.
In fact, that's what our ancestors and tribal peoples all over the world emphasize, is that we can all learn from each other because we all have different qualities to give to each other.
I have four cats, and their personalities could not be any more different than four people that you would just, you know, pluck from the street with individual snowflake little personalities.
Well, even a lot of pet owners only regard their pets with so much respect.
Now, I'm sort of curious, when somebody with your level of telecommunication ability, telepathic ability to talk to an animal talks to an animal that's never been, you know, immediately, telepathically communicated with as directly as you're able to do it, does the animal sort of take a, oh my God, you know, it's kind of like having a dog talk to you for the first time or something.
They know right away that the channel's open, that you're not just unconscious or in your own thoughts, that you're aware of them and can receive them.
So there's only been a few that I've met that have been like taken aback because they were so focused on something else.
Penelope Smith is here, and it's about to get pretty wild.
Here's what we're going to do: we're going to ask a lot of specific questions from the best person in the world to answer them.
Maybe some will not have answers, but we're going to get pretty specific about what animals think.
And what I want you to do is fast blast them to me.
And there's two good reasons for you to go to my website right now.
And after I get a little sacks here, I'll give them to you.
All right, here they are.
Number one, the first hour we discussed the Space Preservation Act of 2001 by this representative in Ohio.
And if you'll go to What's New on my website, we've got the text for you.
If you want to read it, it's under What's New, first item, Hoagland Space Preservation Act 2001.
Read it.
It's amazing.
Absolutely amazing.
It'll blow you away.
Item two is what is item two?
Item two is that you should go to Fast Blast, also on the website.
How do you fast blast me?
Go to program and then fast blast to host.
And if you have a specific question that you would like me to ask Penelope about animals, not a specific animal necessarily, but about animals, then fast blast it to me and we will fit it in.
All right.
So, coming up in one moment, Penelope.
You know, in the next break, I may try and take a real close-up picture of Yeti.
Yeti is our latest cat here, and he's really, he's really something.
The jealousy, even that word, is kind of a projection from human emotion.
And a lot of what people call jealousy is their own thoughts ricocheting into the cats because people kind of install that into cats.
Cats can compete with each other over space, over people.
But what happens when people, this is very common, people will go, oh, my cats are jealous.
The cats right away pick up what this is, and they'll be fine when the people aren't there.
And as soon as the people come, the cats will pounce on each other and start dramatizing this whole jealousy thing.
And the more people put that into the space, the more the cats pick it up or dogs or whoever it is, and they start to create it.
As soon as you drop that and you praise each one and admire each one and thank each one for who they are and what they do with each other, they start to act quite differently.
So I feel like people, while cats definitely can be competitive and experience feelings like jealousy, I feel a lot of this is pumped up by people.
I've experienced this again and again and can be handled very well by handling the people who are constantly thinking jealousy, jealousy, jealousy.
It needs to be a mutual process of really tuning in and seeing who's meant to be with each other.
And I feel the best is just what you said, is they come up to you, they look at you.
Sometimes people go, oh, I want the one that's the pink with purple eyes or whatever it is.
And it's the one with the brown stripes that is calling to them, take the one with the brown stripes, because they know animals are so tuned into what their purpose is with you, how they gravitate to you, what their life is going to be like with you.
They're in a lot of ways more tuned in and sensitive to those kind of energetic connections that we are until we take the time to do it and to slow our minds down.
No, but I think people are generally asking, you know, some people let their cat out and let it roam and go anywhere it wants and do anything it wants.
Usually they end up sadly getting squished by cars or eaten by coyotes out here.
In most cases, what happens is, and I've interviewed a lot of cats who have had their claws removed, it's extraordinarily painful and leaves the cat, it's a huge trauma to a cat.
It's like taking the first joints off your fingers and leaves the cat very sensitive.
So often cats who have had this trauma inflicted upon them, they become biters.
They feel very defenseless.
They feel hostile.
They have a lot of anger.
I've taken cats and worked them through the trauma so that they stop biting people after that because they have such trauma.
So I would say, in general, I would say declawing is very, very traumatic to cats.
If it's going to be done, I presume it should be done when the cat is extremely young, kind of like we, I don't know, various rituals that are performed on even people done when you're very young so you don't remember the pain, eh?
Here's James from Cedar Falls, Iowa, who asks, you know, I had an experience where I swear I witnessed my dog crying, actually crying, after he nipped my finger.
Can a dog be sad to that degree that it really cries?
Carmine in Milwaukee says, Penelope makes some really interesting points, but I have sat with extreme intent on killing a white-tailed deer, then done so, and the deer doesn't react in any way unless it senses me through some normal channel.
And many people hunt and hunt with intention not to hurt the animal, but to actually kill and eat them.
And this has been a long history of people with animals.
Animals know that they're prey.
I mean, they're animals that are killed by owls and other foxes and other animals.
And they aren't necessarily afraid if your intention is simply to be present with them and you have some kind of agreement with them to take their life.
Now, I don't know what this person is doing when they're being with the animal.
I'll give you an example of that with other animals.
I saw this program.
It was quite wonderful called Wild America years ago, Marty Stauffer.
Of course.
And he showed a mountain lion killing a deer, and then the mountain lion laid down with the deer and was licking the deer and pawing the deer.
And the emotion that was coming from the mountain lion was gratitude, love, deep expression of thankfulness, similar to what Native American peoples have said you always have to be when you're hunting if you're going to take an animal's life to be grateful to ask them.
And the mountain lion and the deer have a pact with each other.
It's an understood pact.
Now, every animal will try to survive.
Every animal wants to have their body carry on.
At the same time, they also know that they're going to die and accept death as part of their life.
I'd like to give you another story, something I learned from an animal who was a prey animal.
I was teaching in Germany, and we were in this barn that had a lot of horses and a lot of rabbits.
And the rabbits were all in these very spacious cages.
They were food rabbits.
And I said to the rabbit, how do you feel about your life?
And he said, my life is so good here.
I'm well taken care of.
You have beautiful straw, great roomy cage.
The people love me.
And unlike the wild rabbits, I know when I'm going to die, and I don't have to worry about it.
I'm provided for.
It's very wonderful here.
I spend my time meditating and being filled with love all around me.
And I wouldn't want to be a wild rabbit.
And I said to him, yeah, but you're going to be killed to be eaten.
And he said to me, everybody gets killed to be eaten.
You're going to be killed to be eaten.
And I said to him, well, wait a minute.
No, I'm not going to be, I'm not a prayer.
I'm not going to be eaten.
He says, no, you will be eaten.
Everybody is eaten.
And I got what he meant.
He looked at the horse.
He looked at me.
He says, everybody's eaten.
He totally accepted that there's a natural cycle of life, that we're all going to get eaten one way or another.
Our bodies will.
And that he goes on.
And there wasn't a problem there.
I'm not saying that this justifies killing all animals or whatever.
This isn't a matter of justifying.
It's a matter of tuning in, seeing what the cycle of life is, and realizing that animals do eat each other.
And that's you can do it in a way if you are going to do that, eat animals.
You can do it in a way that's honoring.
And as that hunter experienced, very untraumatic.
You don't do it in a way that's hurtful and torturous of the animal.
And he's super sensitive to energies, super sensitive to any threat in his environment, and he's definitely made his choices about what he wants in his life.
I mean, as I said, to me, every one of my cats is as individual as a snowflake in personality.
They're totally different, completely different.
I mean, just once you get to know them, they're as different as day and night in their personalities.
And so if they have self-awareness and they have personalities and they feel emotions, love, fright, hate, I suppose, you know, all kinds of ranges of emotions, just like human beings, then why should we not conclude they have souls?
Well, different beings choose different experiences.
It's a different experience to be a cat and a dog and a human, and it's different to be different kinds of humans in different cultures.
This is my perception.
My experience is that we are spiritual beings who come in and choose our experience according to what is our purpose, what we're traveling along on the path, what kind of experience we want in our lives.
And this goes into the reincarnation and the life to life that we can live in many different forms and many different experiences.
And it's all quite wonderful.
And what the animals give is just as valuable in the whole web of life as what humans give.
We all give our particular function, our particular qualities to each other, and it makes this world function.
My cat, which stays inside our cats or inside cats.
We don't let coyotes eat them and things crush them.
So we keep them safe inside all the shots up and all the rest of it.
And they seem extremely happy and they are bonded to us, no question.
Now, cat number two.
I was in Bangkok a few years ago.
And for the most part, in Bangkok, cats are trying to avoid the street vendors who put them in pots and cook them and people who eat them.
I mean, you go out on the street in Bangkok and you can get cat anywhere.
Cat is food there.
Now, it would seem to me that a cat there, you know, if a cat has a lot of self-awareness and it understands self, does it become like the deer when it's in Bangkok?
Does it know that its role is entirely different?
It's not necessarily friend to human or it's going to be, it would probably consider humans as something that would cook them.
And again, we get back to beings choosing their experience when they come in, choosing where they're going to be, what form, what country, what experience.
And again, that's a whole other metaphysical subject that I have a lot of experience both in counseling humans and animals.
So yes, they would have a whole different experience of life.
Well, they express themselves through their sounds.
And every animal, all different kinds of animals have different languages, different ways of expressing through sounds, through movements, through dances.
So yes, you could track different meanings, but different animals will, especially domesticated animals, develop different ways of expressing themselves than other animals of their same kind in different places.
So they may have the same gesture, and it might mean something else than some other cat.
Now, my experience with animals, again, they have different awarenesses and different ways of expressing their intelligence, but all of the animals are aware of themselves as spiritual beings who are also being dogs, cats, frogs, whatever they are.
They also are aware of death, accept death as a part of life, and that they're going to go on.
They're aware of themselves when they go on beyond death.
You can communicate with them.
And they have an innate awareness.
This is something, again, that we sort of are socialized out of.
And humans also have the choice to forget who they are, have the mental complexity to get lost in, where animals just don't forget who they are.
They always stay grounded in their own experience as spiritual beings living in a particular form and totally enjoying their form and totally enjoying their life as best as they can.
I would say that they want to survive and they will try to protect themselves and live, and they don't want to be hurt.
But as far as accepting death as part of life, animals have a real acceptance, just like that rabbit I talked to you about.
But domesticated animals get all wrapped up in their people and start to go, oh, dear, I can't die because my person is feeling sad and I better hang on even though it hurts.
And they get all wrapped up in human thinking.
Generally, animals will like to die very peacefully and quietly or often they'll go off by themselves or they accept it and they don't fight it unless of course they're having to take care of a person and they're being torn by their person's feelings.
But generally animals will it's not like they want to die, like they're going, oh whoopee death, but they accept it as part of the natural cycle.
They come in, they live the best way they can, enjoy life with all their senses, and then they go, okay, well, I'm going to be departing, but they're also aware that they go on.
Merle in Walnut Creek, California, when a cat suddenly starts staring at something intently or sees something that we cannot see, is this cat seeing something in another dimension or at another frequency that we cannot fathom?
Because surely it does seem like that cat is either suddenly switched on the imagination switch and sees a mouse going across the floor that we can't see or really does see something in some spectrum we can't see.
It's the seeing things in another spectrum, in another dimension.
First of all, they're extremely sensitive to energies and spirits.
So they can see projections of thoughts too, like when you're talking about a mouse, if the mouse is thinking about going across the floor, or even in other dimensions, beings, spirits.
You'll see cats, dogs staring in corners.
They're seeing things that we may not be able to see unless we tune in also.
They're extremely sensitive energetically and they're telepathic.
They're all telepathic with you, with each other.
They get each other's thoughts and feelings, and they can get that of disembodied beings also.
We've lost our birthright, our deep connection, and this is what many, many people are turning back to.
Without being telepathically in touch, in other words, feeling what the animals feel and regarding them as fellow beings, we then destroy the earth and ourselves.
And it's absolutely imperative, and that's one of the main reasons I do what I do.
It's absolutely imperative that people reconnect and understand deeply and feel deeply this part of themselves that's been trampled out of them in our culture, so that we return to a respect for the animals, the plants, the earth, and ourselves, and regard each other with tender, loving care.
A person here, Diana, up in Alaska, has a pot-bellied pig that is absolutely, totally an unhappy animal, grumpy, complaining, not happy, just leading an abysmal life.
What advice do you offer such an owner with a pig?
Yeah, well, it's a matter of tuning in to the pig.
You know, I'd have to find out individually what's going on with the pig, whether it's uncomfortable physically, what its complaint is, you know, whether it's not in the right environment or whether it's been mistreated by previous people or whatever's going on.
So I can't give sort of blanket advice.
I'd have to actually tune into the pig, find out who it is, where it is.
Well, one of my cats that I've had for, oh, gosh, 11 years now, you know, he's getting on.
And he's kind of grumpy.
I mean, if you have him out, he's setting himself on the porch and you tell him it's time to come in, he goes, he'll hiss at you, and he'll let you know you're a rotten person for doing this.
And we have the world's premier animal communicator on tonight, Penelope Smith.
One thing I've noticed about cats is when you give them a cat treat, if you just gently put the cat treat down and the cat treat nearly matches the color of the rug, they don't even see it.
They don't see it.
And for a long time, I thought, my cats are going blind.
In other words, something that would allow a cat to see the world as we see it, or even just as interestingly, to allow us to see the world as the cat would see it.
Well, I would take a deep breath, first of all, in myself and acknowledge my fear, because obviously that's quite natural if you're startled by a dangerous animal.
And then communicate in peace.
What the Native Americans always said is just communicate that you come in peace.
The animals get your intention.
Now, if you're in between a grizzly bear's mother and her cub, she's not going to listen to you very much.
But I'll give you an example of something I have experienced.
I was in a park in Los Angeles with my dogs, and they were running ahead of me, and they started barking, and I realized there was a rattlesnake there.
And the rattlesnake was coiled and ready to strike.
And I told one of my dogs to come, and he came.
But my other was a puppy, and she's less than a year old, and she's leaping around the rattlesnake.
And she wouldn't listen to me.
And I know if I put my hand out there to grab her collar, I could get struck by the rattlesnake.
So I said to the rattlesnake telepathically, not out loud, I just communicated, I want to get my dog away from you.
I don't want to hurt you.
I'm going to reach for my dog so she doesn't hurt you.
I'm going to pull her away, and I want you to go away.
Know that I will not hurt you.
So this all happened very quickly, and I just knew that the rattlesnake got what I said, and I reached for my dog's collar, which, of course, she was very close to the rattlesnake.
The rattlesnake uncoiled, stopped rattling, and moved away as I grabbed my dog.
So that was my experience.
I can't say, you know, that I have an experience with polar bears or, you know, great white sharks in the water or something.
But I have had experience with other animals that are not going to eat me, but that could be dangerous and hurt me, and found that if you go calmly and just talk to them and tell them your intention and then keep your word, they listen.
They don't want to interact with you in a painful way.
Now, you know, I understand there's a big social movement all across America to have your animals fixed because they're out of control and we don't want to see them in the chambers and getting killed and all of that sort of thing.
This is a different question.
I mean, when they're fixed, when they lose their little manhood or their female plumbing or whatever, how do they take that?
Well, first of all, they come here, and they've had a lot of experience with animals in this.
They come here to be with us.
Most domesticated animals, the dogs and the cats, come to live with us in a harmonious way as best as they can.
So when you explain to them that they won't be running around the neighborhood mating, and this will enable them to be close to you, and they won't be spraying the house, which isn't going to do your relations very well with them.
Generally, animals go great, whatever it takes to live with you.
Now, obviously, an operation is an operation, and it's a painful thing, but obviously the way it's done by veterinarians now, it's very, you know, easy operation, done well, especially when they're young.
And I just explained to the animals what's going to happen, that the purpose of it is, you know, so they won't have babies or they won't wander, they won't get hit by cars or hurt by other cats.
And they're generally really accepting of it and grateful.
They choose, and again, this is where the spirit comes in.
These particular animals choose to be with people.
They don't choose to live a wild life and just reproduce.
When you tell a wild cat who's had five litters in a row that you're catching her in order to help her so she can live and doesn't have to die having babies, one set after the other and not being fed well, generally with that, they will let you spay them.
I've worked with any number of wild cats and told them what's going to happen, and of course that they'll be handled well and then they'll be released if that's what they want.
They're relieved.
And again, it depends on the individual case.
You know, I've had people who said, oh, I want my dog to have babies.
They're a breeding dog.
I want them.
And the dog is going, I don't want to have babies.
You really are telling me now that there are some cats that essentially say to themselves, and some humans do, hey, I don't want to change diapers in the case of humans, or I don't want something making all my little breasties saggy.
When animals have been really abused, oftentimes they don't want anything to do with people.
But most of the time, most animals will let go.
Say a person does something out of anger.
An animal will be over it pretty soon if they realize, when they realize, which they usually get their people's feelings pretty fast, that the person isn't going to do it again, and they're over it.
But if a person, if an animal knows they're going to get abused again and again, I don't generally find them holding heavy grudges like they're going to kill a person or something like that.
But they don't want it to happen again, and they certainly hurt from it, and they certainly have trauma from it.
If your cat is angry at you and you leave the house, is a cat capable of thinking to this degree that, aha, I know where a favorite thing of this person's is, and I know how to totally wreck it before they get home.
Now, I've seen this happen.
So I'm just asking, you know, it could, of course, be coincidence or synchronicity or, you know, something or another, but cats do this.
Well, let me just tell you how I would express it from having heard cats communicate about it and about their feelings.
Okay.
The way you express it, like you say, oh, they think about it and go, I'm going to tear this up.
Well, they might be mad because of whatever situation occurred that you didn't, you know, do something with them or they feel ignored or whatever it is.
Right.
And they may express it on your things because that's a direct way of letting you know, because you're not listening to them, that they're unhappy.
So yes, they can do that.
I mean, I have definitely experienced that from different animals.
If you listen to them, if you acknowledge them, you can short-circuit all that behavior, and you don't have to have it happen.
When the cat gets their needs met or you just acknowledge whatever's going on with them, they don't have to dramatize, but they're just trying to get across to you.
They're just trying to get across that something is not working for them.
You know, I mean, if you communicate well about what's going on, if they have their needs met, if they get enough exercise, depends, you know, dogs, cats, whoever, everybody's different.
You know, what is the situation?
You know, for example, I go out of town often, and when I first started going out of town, my young cats, I mean, they didn't like it.
They didn't like that I left.
But I told them, okay, I'm going to be gone for a certain amount of time, and I want you to stay in touch with me, and I'm going to stay in touch with you, and I want you to help me energetically with my work.
So they felt united with me and didn't then get so pissed off.
But if I don't think of them, if I don't stay in touch as well with them, then they can get more like, hey, you ignore us, and not be real happy about it when I get home.
And let me tell you, your cats right now know that you're talking to me and that you've mentioned them and they're tracking this and they're going to expect more from you when you get home.
Even though you're a great cat person and you love them and you're very respectful, they're now going to expect you to be even more intelligent.
Here's something that I guess I want to ask: do dogs and cats like each other, or have they, or in some cases, do they build strong bonds, or do they just most of the time kind of tolerate each other?
Including with rats, with birds, with snakes, with rabbits, all different kinds of domesticated animals that wouldn't socialize in the wild end up being very good friends and having great relationships in a domesticated situation.
Now, Can you recommend that the following experiment be tried?
Out where I live, Penelope, we have a lot of wild animals, coyotes.
We have big 20-pound birds that look like they'd pick you up and take you off.
I mean, we have really wild animals out here in the desert.
And is it possible when you're near one, and occasionally you can be near one, to communicate with it that you want to be near it, that you're not going to harm it, and then sort of just sort of sit there and be with that.
Will that animal agree to be with you for a while?
And again, this is a mixed question because you'll find some animals in zoos who were captured from the wilds against their wishes, be very, very unhappy and demonstrate that in the zoo.
And then you get some animals who have chosen as spirits to be born in zoos or to be in a situation where they're transferred from place to place.
I find that the more the animals are honored for who they are and given space and given more natural conditions, the better that they feel about it.
At the same time, there are many animals that will never be happy in zoos.
And I don't think that zoos are something that we necessarily should keep long term.
I think that we should, you know, eventually evolve out of this so that we live with animals in their natural conditions and honor them as they are.
At the same time, zoos now are also serving other functions of helping with endangered species and doing all kinds of work, too.
And this is really a synchronistic lead-in that you guys had because I have a large cat question for you.
Experiences With Large Cats00:02:46
unidentified
Okay.
I've read one of your books, Penelope, and I've really, really enjoyed it.
I've had a thing all my life with big cats.
I worked in two zoos.
I can tell you irrefutably that most of the animals are crazy in the zoos, in my opinion.
I've nursed Serengeti, black-maned Serengeti cubs back to health from being burned in bars with cigarettes to hear them roar back to where they're somewhat sane.
I've had cougars.
And I have had experiences in the wild all the time with large cats.
For example, I was finishing a PhD in Marin in San Francisco living in Tiburon, and you probably know the area.
And the person I was working for had a large estate there, big as most of them are very large.
And I chose not to live on the place with her and had my own camp about a half mile from where she was.
And every night I would go to my camp up this cliff face and then about half a mile.
And every night after I had been there, maybe I spent four or five days a week down in Marin doing research at the university there, et cetera, et cetera.
And I would sleep there every night.
And after the second week, there was a female cougar there at the top of the rise that would walk with me all the way, maybe within 10 feet, all the way to the drop-off to where I stayed, would stay there all night.
She would make kills within 30 feet of my camp.
I would get up in the morning at 8.30, 8.30 in the morning and go out, and there would be piles of scat 10 and 12 feet in front of me that were that fresh, still steaming.
If I missed more than three days in a row, she would come up to my office where I had my office and worked on this estate.
She was seen three times.
They thought she was a great Dane with a long tail.
And a whole bunch of people saw her.
My question to you is: I am planning on getting some acreage further up, maybe 60 acres, and providing a haven for large cats, specifically for cougars and bengals that are overages and the unwanted cat phenomena.
Vet's Perspective on Cat Behavior00:10:27
unidentified
And I'm wondering what you think the effect on the local cats are going to be because we have more and more up here.
This is what I would recommend to you, since you're so sensitive with the cats and they are so tuned into you and you're walking the way I was talking about where you just walk with the wild animals, respect them, and they come to you because they have the choice.
So this is what I would recommend you do is go to the area, sit in a meditative space, get real quiet, and let telepathically just communicate to all the wild cats what's going to happen here and why you're going to be doing what you're doing.
When you do that, just feel whatever comes to you.
Just, you know, ask the cats to communicate whatever it is that they wish and start to feel it.
And you will probably find that with that understanding and with you having asked and given that purpose for what you're doing, that you're going to be helping the cats who have been abused, that you will find a cooperation among the other cats.
First thing you need to do is to communicate with the animal and ask them what's going on.
They often have information that can lead a vet, help a vet to find out what is actually happening, when they first started feeling ill, did they eat some poison, you know, whatever is going on.
They can tell you a lot about it.
And the vet may not be able to diagnose it as a particular disease, but say you communicated that to, say, a holistic vet who works with acupuncture or homeopathy or other alternative means.
They would be able to work with the cat or whoever it is to help them by the symptoms that the cat is presenting.
According to what the cat says, I've got a pain, you know, deep in my chest, and it started when I ate this or did that.
So, you know, there's no question that you can definitely get more information from the animals.
I mean, over the years, many veterinarians have read my books and used them with the animals.
So I know there's a lot of holistic vets, and I think there's more and more vets that see a lot of people communicate with animals and get their communication but aren't recognizing it.
They're in tune.
They're close to them or they wouldn't even be in the animal field.
And when they start to read the books and learn what telepathic communication is about, they start to develop an ability they already had there and that they were unknowingly using, and then they get better at it.
I was watching them as they were going through their teenage, and I noticed that the boys were establishing dominance by going through the neck biting and standing over routine.
And I thought, oh, gee, cat rules.
So I did the same thing to all of them.
Now, Phenelope, do you approve of following cat rules on raising cats?
You know, people try to make these blanket rules, and they go, oh, you need to be the alpha dog, and you need to throw your dog on its back and show them.
And then the dog becomes traumatized and afraid of you the rest of its life.
I don't think you can make these kind of rules.
That's the great thing about telepathically communicating.
You could find what the animal is thinking, what they want, what works for them, what they respect, how they think about you.
And if you start to go into routine behaviors with animals, you end up objectifying them, and they end up having to respond to you in that way, the way you're treating them.
And I find it interesting that little cats especially, some are very receptive to television and mirrors, but yet others seem like it doesn't even exist.
That's why I say it's great to have the telepathic communication because you can find straight from the individual.
Like, if I try to generalize about humans and I say, you're going to be thinking the same thing, or I should do the same thing with you as I do with other people, no way.
You know, and I would say the same with animals, and that's where you get the best results when you treat them as individuals.
You can apply different training, different ways of being with them that work really well for them.
And there may be some general things that work, but you don't have to rely on that and go and act like a robot with them.
When we get back, I want to ask about dolphins: whether they're really, really, really as smart as a lot of people think they are, just in a different way.
They could be actually as smart as we are, it is said by some, but in a different way.
I was sitting out in the woods meditating, and this fly landed on my hand, and of course it tickled as a fly was walking across my hand.
So I said to the fly, okay, if you can tickle me, walk on my hand, then you've got to let me touch you.
And the fly kind of went, whoa, as I was communicating with it, and I started, I stroked the fly, and the fly flew away, and I thought, well, that's it.
And the fly came back again.
I said, okay, you tickle me, I stroke you.
And we did this for like seven times with the fly going back and forth until he was in quite a state of ecstasy.
We were in very deep communion with each other, and he went off, and it was like, he was thinking, what am I going to tell you?
And I get reports from all kinds of people, and the animals, again, will attempt to communicate to you in whatever way they can, and sometimes we'll try to form human language, and we'll manage it.
But, you know, oftentimes, if people will just listen to them, then the animals don't have to go through such great gyrations, but they enjoy it anyway.
They live with you, so they enjoy mimicking your language too, as best as they can.
Again, they only have a certain amount of ability to do that.
Yes, and in terms of their ability to also bring joy and love to other beings, they're quite astounding, actually, when you're with them and you go into a meditative space with them.
Again, I take people into the ocean with them, you know, in the Bahamas in Hawaii and different places.
And when you go into their space and you communicate with them, they have such a frequency of love that they project with you.
People experience incredible states with the dolphins and the whales.
And the whales are another whole step in evolution.
The dolphins are like the messengers of the whales.
And the whales are just some of the greatest teachers on this planet.
And it is amazing to be with them.
It is one of the most profound things to experience their energy.
I would say if we're going to protect any beings on this planet, we should protect our oceans, our whales, and do everything we can because they give so much to us.
Some of the reasons that they beach themselves in certain areas when they are suffering from diseases from pollution or the low-frequency sonar, the different sounds that are being projected into the ocean is they are trying to communicate, and they communicate this to me.
Yeah, and it isn't so much, again, we put a real heavy emphasis on that, hate each other's guts.
A lot of times they just have different needs, and if those needs can be met, sometimes some cat will want to have more space or want to have more quiet, or there will be some situation where the person has injected a lot of energy into the cats, and now the cats react to each other in fighting over the person.
So usually it's a little more complex than, oh, they just started to hate each other.
There's some need that wasn't met or something that could be changed about the situation or understood better, and then they can get along, or maybe not.
You know, maybe they'll need to hate in different areas.
Animal Talk is the basic book, and will give people the basics on how to communicate with animals.
And then I have also a whole series of audio tapes.
It's on my website.
All the audio tapes and videotapes.
All these things are real helpful for people to open up to their own ability that's within them and learn how to get more sensitive and get the animals' messages and feelings.