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Jan. 10, 2002 - Art Bell
02:04:49
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Mysterious Sightings of East Texas - Rob Riggs
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Time Text
I've had nothing but bad luck Since the day I saw the cat at my door
So I came in to you, sweet lady Answering your mystical call
Crystal ball on the table Showing the future to past Same cat with them evil eyes And I knew it was a spell she
cast She's just a devil woman With evil on her mind
Beware the devil woman She's gonna get you She's just a devil woman With evil on her mind
Beware the devil woman She's gonna get you from behind To recharge Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222, or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
To reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them
dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
Alright, coming up in a moment, Rob Riggs.
You know, I note here though, from people who are fast blasting me, Rochester was on here bragging about their snow mountain.
I'm being told here by people in the New York area that Buffalo is, a trucker flashes me here, that Buffalo is trucking snow to Rochester for their snow mountain!
They certainly have snow to spare, right?
But they're trucking the snow all the way to Rochester for the mountain.
Is that really true?
All right.
Coming up in a moment, Rob Riggs, who is a journalist and the former publisher of a series of award-winning community newspapers down in Texas.
His interest is in ghost lights, wild man sightings, and related phenomena.
It all began when he was a child.
Of course it did.
When he heard tales about all of these things in his hometown of Sour Lake in Big Thicket Country, Riggs began writing about the subject more than 20 years ago, while working as a reporter for the Kunst News.
Since then, his studies of the phenomena have been featured in the Houston Chronicle and the Beaumont Enterprise.
Riggs has also consulted on ghost lights for Waseda University in Tokyo and Harvard College Observatory.
So all of that immediately ahead.
Okay, here in the night time is Mr.
Riggs, Rob Riggs.
Rob, how are you?
Good morning, Art.
Good morning, Rob.
I'm fine.
Where are you?
I'm in Austin, Texas.
Oh, down in Austin.
Yes, sir.
All right.
You have an affiliate here that carries your show.
That's right.
That's exactly right.
And which one is that?
KLBJ AM.
Uh-huh.
KLBJ, LBJ.
Uh-huh.
That means something.
Lyndon Baines Johnson.
Darn right.
Alright, the thicket.
What do you mean by thicket?
What is thicket?
Is that just high weed country?
No, there is a region, what a lot of people around the country don't realize is that the eastern, about the eastern quarter of Texas is heavily forested.
It is the western extent of the southern mixed forest.
Oh, there's no question about it.
Eastern Texas in general is green and pretty lush.
They think of Texas as sort of a semi-arid desert.
And a lot of Texas is like that, but not the eastern part.
It's a whole different area.
It's basically like Louisiana, Mississippi in the deep south.
As a matter of fact, the forested areas of East Texas are roughly equivalent to the forested areas of the entire New England state.
That's a lot of forest.
Yeah, so just to give people an idea of the scale, I know when some people hear that there's a Bigfoot in Texas, they immediately think, well, how could there be a Bigfoot in Texas?
Well, because we have a lot of suitable habitat.
Obviously.
I mean, if Bigfoot is real, Right.
Then he's going to require the kind of area that you're talking about to be able to evade death or capture.
Correct.
Now, the Big Thicket is what is a name that has traditionally been given to the southern end of the East Texas Piney Woods.
This is roughly between the Trinity River, the lower Trinity River, which is just East of Houston, about to the Louisiana border.
And the region is about 60-70 miles wide and about the same distance north to south.
And it encompasses the two biggest river swamp systems in East Texas, and many bayous, marshes.
I want to stop you for just one moment.
Yes.
Have you been a listener to the show for a while?
Yes.
Do you remember a man who claimed that he killed two Bigfoot?
I heard that story, but I heard that was up in the panhandle of Texas.
Which is more like the country you were referring to, the other kind of country.
That's correct.
Now, I won't say that there have never been any sightings of Bigfoot in Texas outside of East Texas.
There have been some.
As a matter of fact, I know of two organizations in Texas that chart recent sightings, both of which have websites.
And one of them actually reported a sighting in Lago Vista, which is out on Lake Travis, right outside of Austin in the Hill Country.
There is some land out there that's fairly undeveloped, owned by the local river authority.
So you have approached this whole thing as a journalist?
Yes, sir.
The way I got started on this, Art, is that I grew up in a little town called Sour Lake, which is population 1,600, right on the southern edge of the Big Thicket.
There is a national park in the Big Thicket.
Actually, it's a preserve administered by the Park Service, and Sour Lake is within about three miles of the boundary of the park.
And I grew up hearing the stories from the time I was about 10 years old.
I remember stories about a naked Harry Wildman having been seen in Hardin County.
It was reported in the newspaper, the Coon's News, which I ultimately grew up to have my first newspaper job working for that actual paper.
I remember the articles and when I wrote the book, I went back and researched and got the articles, and they were in 1952.
Which, incidentally, is about six years before the Bigfoot stories became popularized in California.
Nobody ever heard the term Bigfoot that far back.
So, in the newspaper stories, and even now, you refer to this as a wild man.
Well, it has been referred to as a As a hairy, naked, wild man.
People didn't know what to call it, and you'll find it.
Now, this is kind of interesting.
In the Pacific Northwest, you have a long history of sightings going back to the Native Americans, and they basically have come to be known as Bigfoot or Sasquatch.
That's right.
Well, in the deep south, and what many people aren't aware of, is that There is an equally long tradition of sightings of large hairy humanoid creatures throughout the deep south from East Texas up into Arkansas.
Well, let me ask you this.
We know the traditional look of Bigfoot House described by the Patterson film and by a lot of other things.
People have seen it on TV or whatever, right?
So they know what that looks like.
Now, Wildman, that almost sounds like it could be a description of a Well, that's one of the intriguing parts of the story, Art, is that sometimes the descriptions do seem more like that.
I've interviewed about a dozen eyewitnesses of the Big Thick of Wild Men.
I've talked to people on radio shows.
How hairy?
I've seen Bigfoot and it's really hairy like animal hair.
hair. Now, wild man is apparently sometimes described as just really hairy, and there
are really hairy humans, and there are really feral. People don't know about that, they
don't believe it, but there are feral humans, wild humans, like wild animals.
Well, that's one possibility of what we may be dealing with here. But to tell you the
truth, there are two categories of sightings that I have run across in the Big Thick. At
One is like a typical Bigfoot.
It is described as an ape-like creature covered with hair.
There is another description which is more like what you're talking about.
People have described it as appearing like a primitive-looking Indian.
I'll tell you something.
There was a tribe of Indians that lived on the Texas Gulf Coast from about Corpus Christi, which is around about the middle coast, up to about Galveston Island.
It was called the Karankawas.
Anthropologists consider them to have been probably the most primitive Indians that lived in the United States.
Some people think That they may actually have been a primitive form of man, that they may not have been homo sapiens sapiens.
Their average height of the male warriors is reputed to have been over seven feet tall.
They are said to have grown long hair down past their waist and to have worn animal pelts.
Okay, wait, but that's, you know, that's not really typical, is it, of early humans?
In other words, Even as we can look at sort of macroevolution for humans, we seem to be getting taller.
But if you go back, you would think we would be smaller if it was a direct relation to us.
Well, that's what I say.
It may not have been Homo sapiens sapiens.
You know, there are stories, and I don't have any proof of this, but I have heard stories of Bronze Age Mounds in the United States that have been excavated where they found skeletons of gigantic human beings.
And some people think that these may have actually been... You know, you always hear the story, well, if Bigfoot is real, why haven't we ever found any of their bones?
Right.
Some people think, well, that may be it.
That might be... But, you know, as you know, Many times when any information like that surfaces, it is suppressed because it doesn't fit the dominant paradigm of how things are assumed to have been.
Well, that's right.
And in fact, actually a lot of the bones that have been discovered have been hidden away because there is no reasonable way to explain them.
Exactly.
They end up in the basements of museums.
That's correct.
People don't believe it, but that's really true.
That is exactly what happens to them.
Right.
Instead of considering that we have an important find here that may be a link, they don't want to think about that, so they just put it up on the shelf.
Pretty crazy, huh?
Yep.
What I was going to say about these Caracoas is that if you can imagine a male Warrior Krokoa, seven feet tall.
He's got black hair down past his waist.
He's wearing animal skins.
And they were known to have covered their bodies with mud to keep off, and alligator or shark oil to keep off the mosquitoes in the marshes.
If you can imagine that you're in the woods, in dim light and shadow, and you were to come across one of those, it would look like he was covered with hair.
Well, it could look like it.
Now, I have had sightings in the Big Thicket of people describing... That would be if I recovered from my heart attack.
Yes, I have had people in a particular area near the mouth of the Trinity River in the Trinity Swamps.
There have been a number, I've had several independent reports of people saying what they described, what looked, what sounds like Karakawa Indians.
Now, there have even been some investigators, I believe it was John Green, some of the early Bigfoot investigators, who have suggested that the Caronkawas may have actually migrated to the Pacific Northwest, and that what we're seeing and thinking are Bigfoot may actually be survivors of the Caronkawa tribe.
Well, whatever.
Reasonable to assume that there could be some peoples out there, some creatures or humans or whatever they are, that simply have decided they do not wish to share in our modern lifestyle, period.
They don't want anything to do with this civilization.
It's not the way they live, nor is it the way they want to live, and so they don't.
As a matter of fact, Art, I reach that conclusion in my book.
Really?
Yes.
And I think that may well be the case.
And I think that these people, and I do think we're dealing with people, whether they're a primitive form of human being or something in between a human being and an ape, I think that they have abilities to evade our detection that are Off the scale in terms of weirdness.
And this is based on... How far off scale?
So far off scale as to us to seem like magic or paranormal?
Yes, yes.
And this is what my research in East Texas and Louisiana has indicated to me.
And it's interesting because it overlaps Say in the case of Louisiana, it overlaps with the voodoo practice among the Cajuns and the Creoles.
In Mississippi, it overlaps.
I got an email today from a Choctaw Indian who looked at my website and looked at things I was writing about and he talked about how this was part of the shamanic practices of their witch doctors and they knew about these things.
dating back to antiquity and You'll find if you study the the folklore of American
Indians in the Pacific Northwest and in the deep south They say that these creatures are an ancient form of human
being that does in fact avoid contact with civilization
Well that could be a logical thing for
somebody to do to say don't want a damn thing to do with it.
Here's the way we live.
Not only that, but because they're so separate and reject all that we are, then they would develop their own everything, really, and they might develop in an entirely different way with different talents and abilities and senses.
Yes, and you know, there's the theory about the two sides of the brain.
Oh, yes.
And we, modern western society, has developed the rational side of the brain and our whole world view and the whole way we look at reality, the way we look at nature, the way we look at everything is based on that.
Even time?
Yes.
Everything, yes.
Yes, I was hearing what you were talking about, time.
Well, imagine if you had a human being that developed the intuitive side of the brain to the nth degree.
Which is probably exactly what you would do if you were not caught up in the culture.
If you were a feral, wild human being.
Absolutely.
The intuitive side would be raging in you, in all probability.
I can imagine that, sure.
There are, if you go, there aren't many of them left, but if you go to some of the so-called primitive Traditional shamanic cultures in the third world, where there is any surviving that actually maintain a shamanic tradition, their worldview is entirely alien to what we think of as real.
They have contact with what they call the spirit world.
There is evidence of incredible psychic And paranormal abilities.
We've lost.
It's like part of our brain is atrophied because of the way our culture has developed, the way we've evolved.
It's atrophied.
And then these feral people, these wild people, who are not even to the level of what would be the shamanic traditional cultures, it's like the exact opposite.
All right.
Hold it right there.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
I'm sure he's absolutely right about that capability.
I'm Art Bell.
Good morning.
I've been drifting on the sea of heartbreak, trying to get myself ashore for so long.
For so long.
Listening to the strangest stories, For so long
For so long Hold on, hold on, hold on
To what you've got Say hold on, hold on, hold on
To what you've got He came from somewhere, do I wanna go?
you The sound of every fool though she tried hard to recreate what had yet to be created.
Watching her life, she musters a smile for his nostalgic tears
Never coming near what he wanted to say Only to realize it never really was
She had a place in his life He never made her think twice
As she rises to her apology Everybody else would surely know
He's watching her go But if only he could see
The words that cause a bother Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from Western the Rockies
at 1-800-4-4-5-5-5.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
to the Rockies 1-800-825-5033. First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295. To reach out on the Tolpre International Line
call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye.
It certainly is, and I just got a very interesting fast blast.
This is interesting.
I'm not going to give the name of the person who sent it from Bangor, Maine.
But it says, Art, when I was a kid in Boston, And obviously he's older now, right?
I met a man who represented himself as you, meaning me, Art Bell.
Was it you or an imposter?
Now get this, folks.
If it was you, I told you all about time travel and about the future.
If it was or wasn't you, let me know.
This person might want to send me an email for any further communication.
Back now into the thicket with Rob Briggs who wrote a book that you can find out about on my website and of course Amazon.com and so forth and so on.
It's called In the Big Thicket on the Trail of the Wild Man.
Here's Rob again.
Question for you, if you don't mind.
With regard to either one of these classes, you know, the wild man or Sasquatch or Bigfoot, whatever you want to call it, what are the reports that you consider perhaps credible involving what they can do that to us seems paranormal?
Well, James Swan, who is a professor at Cal State Davis did a study in the Pacific Northwest about 12 years ago and he noted that a typical Bigfoot sighting involved a feeling of charged energy in the atmosphere and then you would hear, typically you would hear a howling sound
Sometimes you would smell a musky odor.
Then people would see, frequently would see the wild man or the Sasquatch or the Bigfoot in a range of usually a few miles over a period of a few days.
And then it would simply vanish.
And many times there have been search parties put together and And posses going out with bloodhounds and so on.
And still they have failed to find him.
A lot of people don't know that that's true.
That these stories have been sort of more than just stories.
So much so, that yeah, posses have been formed, people have gone out in mass looking for these things, and they are just gone.
Right.
This is why, Art, there are two basic schools in regard to the Bigfoot phenomenon, and that is what they call the flesh and blood and the paranormal.
This is why I can't buy into merely the flesh and blood, because there's too much history of these things just disappearing.
and there is some testimony of people saying of literally seeing them
planning before the very act and uh...
how many reports like that are there that's pretty impressive
well i i don't have any uh...
from the big ticket but if you set that you study the literature and there
there are a number of people and in fact uh...
i have drawn on the research of a number of well-known writers
John Keel, Loren Coleman.
Sure.
Who are people that I correspond with.
Sure, I know Lauren.
Yeah, and Paul Devereaux and David Clark and the boards from England and Dr. Michael Persinger from Canada and these are all people that I've either studied and or corresponded with and have gotten to be friends with.
There's a substantial body of evidence in this regard and this has led some people like Dr. Persinger to basically dismiss the things as hallucinatory.
I don't, I can't dismiss them as hallucinatory because there's too much physical evidence.
That is, you know, footprints.
There have been recorded footprints of the Big Thick Wild Man and Bigfoot, you know, all over.
And there are some, apparently there are some hair samples, you know, and this phenomenon, by the way, is international.
I'm corresponding with a wildlife biologist from Russia.
There's a long tradition of, and they actually call it wild man there too, and in China.
Help me out here.
They have retrieved hair, and I have heard that in a number of tests, it simply comes back no known mammal.
I've heard of those results coming back as primate, but unknown.
Unknown primate, yeah.
But the point is, Dr. Swan interviewed a couple of American Indian, Native American shamans as part of his investigation, and they told him simply that, well, the reason that you can't find these beings is because they live in two worlds.
They can manifest in this world, and they can leave this world.
Well, maybe they live in two dimensions.
Right.
Well, I would say that would be living in two worlds would be what an American Indian might call what we would say living in two dimensions.
Yes.
Now, another thing they said is that these... We have to almost reduce everything to science to begin to even get a grasp on it.
People are just now understanding There may well be more dimensions up to 11.
They're just beginning to, I think, grasp that.
So then the possibility that a creature like this would live in an adjacent dimension is fairly probable.
I think so, and I'm getting to why I think it's highly likely.
But the Indians also said that they believed that these creatures had the power To make themselves invisible to a human observer.
And John Green, and you can go back and check some of the original Bigfoot research that came out in the 60s, and some of the classic Bigfoot books, and a number of the different research teams reported being in Bigfoot country, actually hearing them And in some cases, actually hearing them walking around in their vicinity and not being able to see them.
To me, that would be different than being in another dimension.
If it was just invisibility or somebody winking out, you could think they're going to another dimension.
Obviously, to us, they are suddenly invisible, but you're suggesting... Well, they may have both abilities.
Yeah, you seem to be suggesting invisibility.
In this dimension, and the ground shakes and the twigs break, and they make footprints, but there's nothing to see.
But they may also be able to do, I mean, that may be like an intermediary, you see, between being in this space-time frame and going to another one.
Because what they may be dealing with is elements of perception, and ambient energy fields involved with perception.
That we're basically ignorant of.
This is something our neuroscientists are just beginning to understand about how parts of the brain work in terms of how we organize the perception of an external objective reality, the temporal lobe and so on.
This is what Dr. Persinger has done, some admirable work in terms of how the temporal
lobes work in regard to organizing our perception of external reality.
And his theory is that something interferes with that process and usually he postulates
that it's these unusual energies.
You know, like a saying, Swan says that the first thing that will happen is there will
be a sense of an unusually strong energy field in an area before the wild man shows up.
We see in a certain spectrum.
Yes, exactly.
We see in a certain spectrum, and I think it may have something to do with vibrational levels, and if something begins vibrating at a frequency that takes it to a level beyond our vision's capability, to us it would become invisible.
Right.
Exactly.
And the reverse would also be true.
Like, if you were suddenly subjected to an energy field and your mind became entrained to an energy field that raised the vibrations, you might then be able to see something that you would not normally be able to see.
That's right.
That's exactly right.
Alright, now, there are other reports.
There are reports in the thicket of something called a ghost light.
Right.
Now, that's interesting.
What is a ghost light, please?
Now, all the people that I have mentioned to you before, these other researchers, particularly Paul Devereaux and David Clark from the UK, have written about what in the English-speaking world are normally called ghost lights or mystery lights, and these are typically Spherical lights, usually about the size of a basketball, usually of an intense bluish white luminosity, that tend to occur and recur in the same areas over long periods of time.
They call it the standing ghost light phenomenon, and they tend to be highly localized, or to occur within An area of say a few miles.
Now there, Michael Persinger and Lauren Coleman and a number of others have documented about 40 locations in North America where there are long standing, standing ghost light locations.
All right.
And there are a number of them also, Art, in the UK.
They're all around the world.
Okay.
Let me lay something on you, okay?
Let's see if this makes any sense to you.
Okay.
There have been some new discoveries in physics.
I listened to a physicist interviewed by Woodley Strieber on Dreamland who has measured what are called plasma balls.
Uh, that are very much like these balls of light you're talking about.
That wouldn't be Professor Otsuki, would it?
I believe it is, yes.
Yeah, I've met Professor Otsuki.
Well, at any rate, he has demonstrated scientifically that these plasma balls are able to either keep their energy static or actually increase it.
Now, if you think that, you know, And that's just impossible from a physics point of view.
Thermodynamics or electrodynamics theory, right?
It just can't be.
If it's some freak of nature that created this plasma ball, one could understand that perhaps.
But it would obviously lessen quickly in intensity, you know, and burn out the atmosphere.
But this is what they, honest to God, they're discovering that these things maintain or increase Well, you're exactly right.
Now, Art, people have been seeing these ghost lights in the big thicket since at least the turn of the century.
And in the 1960s, an old newspaper editor down there in Koontz started writing about it, and he called on scientists in the area to come out and study the phenomenon and try to explain it.
Well, they came out and rather You know, rather lamely, tried to pass it off as swamp gas.
Now, to this date, Art, as far as I know, there has never been any serious study of the Big Thicket Ghost Light by any American team of physicists.
But in 1989, I participated in a research on Bragg Road With Professor Otsuki of Waseda University, Japan.
Oh, no kidding.
Yes.
And he concluded that there were plasma balls on Bragg Road.
He also said, interestingly enough, now there is another ghost light location in West Texas called the Marfa Lights.
Oh, yes.
Quite famous.
Sure.
He told me that in his experience, there were more sightings of what he called ball lightning or plasma balls and texas that anywhere in the world
yeah sounds right uh...
between the the ghost light in west texas and the ghost letter that
art you can go to any virtually any town between houston and beaumont and
a lot of people even in the big cities
who have either heard of our actually seen
these coastlines Can you, before we return to that, can you help me out with something that I really do need help with?
All my life I've heard everything in the world dismissed as swamp gas.
Do you live near the swamps?
The big ticket is in the swamps.
So then what is swamp gas and what is it capable of doing?
Do you know Patrick Weege?
No.
Well, he wrote a book called Swamp Gas Times about his studies of UFOs, and my response to that is, you know, I've been interviewing people and studying these phenomena for 20 years, and I don't know of anybody who's ever seen swamp gas.
What?
Are you serious?
I have never seen a photograph of swamp gas.
Well, I haven't either.
I'm not sure it actually exists.
I think it's a government conspiracy.
So there's never been a case of like a story in a local paper there, oh my god, swamp gas situation bad last night?
No.
Local citizens observe strange swamp gas lights?
You know, you're talking about how these ghost lights cannot be explained.
Well, besides, it would behave as it should behave.
theory. Well, you know, people trot out theories about earthquake lights and so on and so on
and ball lightning, try to explain them, but those are all discharge phenomena that are
very short-lived.
Well, besides, it would behave as it should behave. If it was lightning or something like
that, you've got an initial charge.
Yes, they're discharge phenomena.
It creates this whatever it is, and then it dissipates or even explodes, and ball lightning
does that.
Right.
But these things...
From what I can tell, swamp gas is actually a very rare phenomenon.
But neither one of us have any evidence of swamp gas existing.
Well, that's right.
And yet it has been used to explain...
Think of the oddity of that.
Something that itself has never been realized as real is used to explain other stuff that they can't figure out.
Exactly.
And by the way, Art, while we're talking, I would like to invite your listeners to go to my website, which is mysteriousdimension.com.
Wait a minute, let me see if we have... I would bet that on my website right now, we would have your website.
Yes.
Oh, and we do.
Here it is.
MysteriousDimension.com.
You go to my website, folks.
Go to tonight's.
Let's go to Introduction.
And at the top, there will be a slide show that gives you some pictures of the Big Thicket.
And the first one is a picture of the Ghost Road.
Now, this road is where the Big Thicket ghost light appears.
Wait a minute.
I'm on your website.
Yeah.
All right.
Go to Introduction.
Uh, if I go to intro at the bottom of the page.
I did intro at the top and, oh, okay, here I am.
I'm there.
Do you see the, do you see the, uh, road with the... Oh, this is pretty cool!
This is what they call the ghost road.
This is where the, this is where the ghost light appears in the big picket.
This is pretty cool.
Yeah.
Especially the way it's presented here.
Can I stop?
Peel away from each other in three dimensions. Oh somebody did some really good work
Yeah, yeah, the man named Ira Kennedy from San Marcos, Texas designed this for me. He's a he's a real pro
Oh, this is really cool now art The first picture is a picture of the ghost road where the
light occurs and then there are some big picket things now if you
Go down scroll down Can I stop you'll see a picture that looks like fog? Oh
Yeah, I'm there see that yep, that is a photograph of one phase of manifestation of the big thicket ghost light
Wow.
It actually has different phases that it can appear.
Who caught these photographs as it manifested like this?
Wow.
My friend Bill Fleming and I, who is my associate research, done a lot of research down there with me, and I took this photograph.
Now listen to this.
This is really interesting.
We went to the ghost road and drove about half way down the length and in the distance we thought we saw a light cross the road and go off into the woods.
So we drove up to about where we thought that was and we sat up and we had talked to a man from Joplin, Missouri who had done some photographic Hold your story right there.
It'll be a cliffhanger during the break.
That's how we get people to stick around.
These pictures are awesome.
You've got to see what he's got.
Go to my website.
Go to tonight's guest info and click on his website.
This is absolutely excellent stuff.
Really good photographs.
My, my, my.
It's the mysteriousdimension.com website.
And the link is right there on my website, so go take a look.
It's well worth a look.
I'm Art Bell.
I'm Art Bell.
Some velvet morning when I'm straight.
I'm gonna open up your gate.
And maybe tell you about Phaedra And how she gave me life
And how she made it in Some velvet morning when I was crazy
Flowers growing on our hill Dragonflies and daffodils
Learn from us very much Look at us, but do not touch.
Vedra is my name.
To reach Ardbell in the kingdom of Nigh, from west of the Rockies, dial 1.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
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dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
From the high desert, that's who we are.
We'll be right back.
Alright, once again, Rob Briggs where we're talking about plasma balls and the light
I'm sorry about this, but I'm being told by people on Fast Blast that your website is blown up.
It's blown up?
Yeah, it's blown up.
Too many people hitting it?
Yeah.
That's too bad.
I would still urge people to try this.
It's pretty awesome.
Of the forming light in the formation stage is really neat.
That is some photograph.
That's what we call the luminous mist or luminous fog stage.
And the way people who see that describe it in the distance, it's like a small fog bank with a bright spot in it.
And you can see at the top of the photograph where it's brighter.
You absolutely can, yes.
Yeah.
Now, listen to this, Art.
When we took that photograph, we did not see that light.
Really?
Right.
We were told by a gentleman who was researching the ghost light in Joplin, Missouri, which I think they call the Ozark Spook Light, that if you would go to a place where the ghost lights manifest, you could take photographs, and that sometimes the energy that manifests the lights would be there just outside the visible Range.
Light range.
Is the photograph to the right of it of the same area?
Yes, that is a test photograph.
The photograph to the right was taken with a flash.
The photograph to the left that showed the fog was taken without a flash.
That's awesome.
These are clear, folks, so you know what you're going after if you get on the website.
These are clear, probably 35mm.
Right, 35mm with 1000 speed.
Yeah, very clear, very clear.
So, quite convincing.
Ooh, this is cool.
Now, Art, that phase can also be visible, though.
We got it right outside the visible light range, but it can also be visible.
Now, I have also had people testify that they had seen the fog collapse into the bright spot and form the sphere.
And that's when it becomes visible to the human eye?
Yes, that's when it becomes the basketball-sized sphere.
Now, I have talked to people who have seen that thing for five minutes, who have had the light chase them up and down the road at speeds of 50, 60 miles an hour.
Really?
Yes.
And there's no light known to any thermodynamics or electrodynamics that would act like that.
You use the word chase.
Yes.
Chase.
Now, do you really mean that in the literal sense of the word?
Because that implies intelligent action.
Yes.
I interviewed a man in Beaumont.
I was teaching school there.
And word got out that this is when I first started researching the book.
This man came to me.
His name was Jim.
He said, Mr. Ricks, I want to tell you about what happened to me on Frag Road.
It's been 30 years since I saw this thing and I have never told anyone before and I have never been back to that place.
He saw the light.
He went out there when he was a teenager, a bunch of kids, the light comes up, approaches them from the front of their vehicle, gets right over their car and stalls the engine.
Oh, that would indicate electromagnetic.
Right, it has an electromagnetic parameter.
But they said, these kids were terrified because they said the thing was like it was alive.
Well, maybe.
I have since interviewed a number of witnesses who have had similar experiences with the thing knocking out their electrical systems on their cars, and this is typical of ghost lights around the country.
Well, maybe it was alive.
Yeah.
Now, here's the thing, though.
In many ghost light locations, people People make that observation that the lights seem to be alive to play with them, to be inquisitive, to be conscious of their presence.
Now I do not have a photograph of the basketball size phase of the manifestation.
I do have a photograph of another phase which is called the firefly phase.
The firefly phase generally It is a smaller light, not as big as the basketball size.
It looks like a large firefly.
And they appear in the treetops.
They're also called pinpoint lights.
Typically, it would just be one light.
We were out there one night and a light appeared above our heads.
This wouldn't be where George Bush stole that phrase, would it?
What phrase?
Thousand points for light.
I don't know, but the point is the light can manifest in different ways, or you could say this, there may be phases of the same manifestation of the same phenomenon, or they could be different phenomena.
They could be different things, all of which are luminous.
Now, here's an interesting thing about Bragg Road.
Bragg Road is almost perfectly straight.
It's about eight miles long, and it's almost exactly oriented to north and south.
It almost has a total thicket cover, too.
Yes, it does.
If there were no lights, no creatures, nothing, at night it would be one freaky, scary road to go down.
A thicket is a scary place, Art.
It is.
It has been known as such ever since it's been settled.
As a matter of fact, There is archaeological evidence that the Indians never settled the heart of the Big Thicket where the lights appear.
That they avoided it.
Really?
Yes, and the tradition is that they said that that part of the woods was haunted by demons and they wouldn't go there.
There is no evidence of any permanent Indian culture having existed in that part of Hardin County.
And they used the word demons?
That's, yes.
Well, no, they had their own word for that.
But it amounted to demons.
Yes.
And traditionally there are places around the country where this is the case.
Where the howling, hairy creatures appear, or the weird lights appear.
And so the point is that there's a correlation between the appearance of these lights, Art, and the appearance of the wild men.
I really was not fully conscious of that association until I started writing stories about the ghost lights.
Have you ever heard or seen one of these creatures?
I have heard it, yes.
And I have interviewed about 15 or 20 people who have actually seen it and or heard it.
Uh, 1988.
Excuse me, but you've personally heard it?
Yes.
Alright, um, one moment please.
Okay.
does it in any way sound like this now that's one recording that i have and if i were to
categorize that i'd say we're listening to a wild man
So...
It sounds like a wild man to me.
Let me tell you what happened to me.
I had deduced after having studied it for some time that there was an area where I could go and I might have a chance of intercepting sort of a travel route that they might use.
Yes.
I went out to the deep woods and it was a pipeline right away that cut through the woods I got on a deer blind and sat on this deer blind and actually spent the night on the deer blind.
I woke up and about an hour before sunrise, that thing couldn't have been more than about 20 yards from me.
It was so loud Art.
That you could, the air was, it's like the air was vibrating and you could feel the vibrations in your chest.
Alright, here is the other sound.
Now this is said to be a Bigfoot sound.
So since you've heard something, you listen carefully to the following because this has been verified to be an actual Bigfoot sound.
Now let's see how this one goes with you.
That obviously recorded at some distance.
Does that sound anything like what you heard?
I work with some guys called the Texas Bigfoot Research Center.
They have some photographs of what they call these vocalizations.
There are actually a number of different calls that the creatures make.
One of them, that loud one, the first one you played?
Yes.
That's what I heard.
That was a howling, just an indescribable howling sound.
They also have another call that's almost more bird-like.
Very loud and higher pitched and shorter.
They'll make a series of those sounds.
I got an email from a A lady who grew up in the swamps around Lafayette, Louisiana, she said it was common knowledge way back in the swamps, and the old people actually left food out for these things, and she said that they heard them frequently, and that there was no animal
known to any of the people in the swamps that could make that sound. It was totally,
you know, couldn't be duplicated by anything else.
I will say this, after that experience, I have not gone back into the woods alone again.
I wouldn't either.
Yeah.
So you're not crazy.
I'm brave, but I'm not crazy.
So you would not seek out, after what you experienced, you wouldn't seek out an encounter
I mean, even with others, or would you?
Well, yes.
You would?
I would, and I'll tell you why.
So you're a little crazy.
Yes, but my feeling was, at that time, when that was happening, that I was totally at the mercy of that thing.
Yeah?
And that if it had wanted me, it could have had me right there.
Well, now, that is an interesting point you bring up.
I think I've talked to most of the biggest Bigfoot researchers in the world, and inevitably they say that, really, even if they say the same thing you did, if it had wanted me or wants somebody, believe me, it's got them.
But it really doesn't.
Friendly creatures.
These are creatures that mean us no harm.
Yes, and you know, I think there's a possibility that they may need... I think the places where these creatures can exist are dwindling.
And I think there may be somewhat in their interest for us to know more about them.
And hopefully to protect some of the areas where they exist.
Because I think that they need the energetic conditions that produce those ghost lights to exist in order for them to be able to manifest in this space time.
The problem that you've got, and anybody else who believes what you believe, would be that before you can get that protection, and you could get it if If we proved beyond all doubt the existence somehow of these creatures by getting a body, getting irrefutable evidence of some kind, then you could get the kind of protection you want till then.
You just try and go in and get anything protected with a story like this and you'll hear the buzz saws coming.
Well luckily, about 100,000 acres of the Big Picket has been protected.
Yeah, but not for that reason.
No, not for that reason.
But luckily there are some, you know, there are some places.
And they do inhabit the preserve.
As a matter of fact, I talked to a park ranger at one of the units of the preserve and there have been reports Particularly among the Native Americans who live right on the edge of the northern part of the Big Thicket Preserve of the Wildman Sightings.
I got an email also today from a gentleman who has a hunting camp in that same area.
He says that he's had a number of encounters with them.
Okay, now, I'm also, I've got a lot of sources, you know, because of what I do here.
I'm lucky I have all these sources.
And I'm hearing all these stories about sudden Bigfoot appearances, sudden Bigfoot interaction with human beings.
I mean, all kinds of interaction between these creatures and human beings, that it's really, really, really seriously on the increase in people.
It does seem that way.
And you figure it's because we're encroaching?
I think it's, yes, I think it's that.
You know, maybe it's time.
You know, I've always thought that we're not talking about discovering an animal here.
We're talking about making contact.
Well, yes.
This is like a different culture.
Not only a different culture, a completely different worldview.
But that we as human beings also have latent within us the very powers that these creatures have.
That may well be, but by thousands of years we have lost touch with it.
We have lost touch with it, yes.
Maybe even millions of years.
I don't know.
Do you have any sense of how old these beings might be?
No, but I do know that the Native Americans, many of them refer to them as the Ancient Ones.
that they go back to very ancient times.
Let me digress a little bit and talk about...
I said that the Bragg Road was a straight line.
Are you familiar with the straight line?
Many ancient cultures built these straight tracks.
The Celtic culture and the American Indians and so on.
Well, a lot of people thought it was so straight that people thought they were runways.
Right.
Yeah, absolutely.
And, you know, if you've ever read, you know, like John Michel and John Keel, a number of people have written about this.
Ted Holliday wrote a very famous book called The Dragon and the Disc.
Apparently, one of the functions of these lines was to connect PowerPoints.
And to facilitate the flow of energy on these lands that they call the serpent power and so on?
There's an interesting thought.
Uh-huh.
Well, I think... A kind of a geographic conduit.
Uh-huh.
I think that... Listen, you're going to have to hold right at that point.
Where's the bottom of the hour?
Good point of break, actually, and this is good bumper music to do it.
It's in the woods.
It's in the thicket.
And it's looking at you.
Maybe even many of them.
And it's looking at you. Maybe even many of them. Thousands.
And I can't help but see. If you are true.
So remember when you tell those little white lies that the night has a thousand eyes.
You say that you're at home when you phone me.
You make my heart sing. You make everything good.
Wild thing.
Wild thing, I think I love you But I wanna know for sure
So come on and hold me tight I love you
Wild thing You make my heart sing
Wanna take a ride?
Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
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Thank you for watching.
We'll be right back.
All right, back into the thicket with Rob Riggs, who's written a book, by the way, and you're definitely going to want to see his website.
We've got a link up.
And I understand the traffic has lessened a little now, and you've got a chance of getting in, so you might give it another try.
Just go to tonight's guest info, and you will see his website listed.
I hope I don't, uh, hadash it again.
I don't mean to do that.
It's just that when something this fascinating comes along, what are you going to do?
You've got to show everybody.
I mean, the website is absolutely awesome.
So go to artbell.com, go to program, tonight's guest info.
And you're going to want to go down and click on, uh, the second, uh, actually the book, his book is the first link, uh, which will take you to the book.
In the big thicket on the Trail of the Wild Man, and then below it, the website.
Click on the website, and let's see if I can get in.
Yes!
And then when you do get in, don't click on the intro at the top.
Go to the bottom of the page, click there on intro, and oh my, you are on your way, and you will see exactly what he's talking about.
We were talking about straight lines.
That's the first thing you're going to see is this incredibly straight Eerie, strange, very strange road.
And then you're going to be taken on a little trip from there.
And then, of course, you can scroll down the page and see the formation of this fog that then becomes one of these lights or plasma balls or whatever the hell they are.
All right.
We're back on the air again.
OK.
So lines, straight lines.
Well, Art, I want to say this first.
People have seen the wild man step out of that fog.
They have?
Yes.
This is consistent with observations in England.
There are many places in England, or not many, but some of the traditional ghostlight sightings, Well, have what they call the luminous fog, and people will see anthropomorphic forms, human-like forms, shadows within those lights.
Oh, brother.
Yeah, this is seriously weird stuff.
Well, let me tell you a little story.
Are you a listener to the show?
I am when I'm up that late.
There's a fella over the hill from me in Las Vegas who's a friend of mine, and he is He's a billionaire.
You know, he's big-time rich.
His name is Bob Bigelow, and he runs NIDS, which is really a very serious scientific investigatory group that's funded with his money.
And, oh, they do some incredible, incredible work.
He has this farm where they set up some infrared observation, you know, through night vision.
Right.
And a couple or several of his top scientists observed a light forming, a kind of a fog, same thing you're talking about, and they saw a creature come out of it, literally come out of it.
And my God, it sounds like what you're talking about.
Now these straight lines, we were talking about how in ancient cultures that they would actually build these lines to connect these power points and they would conduct the serpent power energy and the dragon power, they had different names for it.
And many of these cultures, their whole technology and their whole culture was centered around a technology that utilized this energy.
I think what happened in the case of the Bragg Road is that inadvertently A straight line connected some major power points in East Texas.
Now there are some really strange effects other than the light itself that occur there.
One of these is sometimes you can go there and the energy can be such that there is this feeling, say like you're sitting in your car, and I've had this happen to me.
And all of a sudden you feel like you're moving backwards.
Yeah, sure.
I've felt that.
You've felt that?
Sure.
I had a witness tell me that a lot of kids go out there to look for these lights.
It is a tradition in Southeast Texas.
And they had that experience and the wild man showed up right after that.
A lady emailed me today.
She was a displaced Southeast Texan living up there in the Northwest.
She said she went out with a group.
They saw the light in the distance.
It kept approaching them.
They got the sense that it was moving at an incredible speed toward them.
She said that suddenly we felt like we were moving 100 miles an hour backwards.
And the light actually came up to them and went through their car.
I wouldn't go out there.
I wouldn't do that.
And I've had witnesses tell me that the light would go through their car and I've had witnesses tell me that there was a shadow like of a human silhouette within the light as it approached them.
You go over to Louisiana and they will tell you that there are wizards that can transform themselves into a ball of light.
They call it the FIFOLE.
You go over to Mississippi and the Choctaw Indians will tell you the same thing, that there are wizards who move around in balls of light.
Yeah, this is the old shapeshifter.
It's interesting to take the mythology and put it together with the real world reports.
There's probably something there.
I'll tell you something else interesting.
There's another place where the Wild Man is not only seen on the back road in the Big Thicket.
It's actually seen in a large area.
There's an old bridge in the preserve, the National Preserve.
I interviewed some kids from Saratoga, Texas, a small town surrounded by the preserve, who told me that they had seen what they called an ape-looking critter a number of times near this bridge.
I went there to take some photographs as an illustration for a possible hardcover edition of my book, just to illustrate the story in the book.
I went there, it was about dusk, Art, and I took five or six shots of the bridge from different angles.
Right.
When I developed the film, there were, in two frames, there was a light of a very distinct shape from two different distances, from two different perspectives, as if the thing had moved.
Do you have those on your website?
I don't have them on my website.
I have not.
They have never been published, but I will put them on there.
Would you?
Yes.
Alright.
They have never been published before.
See, that is interesting.
You caught the same light from two different perspectives.
Two different perspectives.
One close up, one far away, and you can see it's the same thing, the same shape, and you can see that it has moved.
Another interesting thing, have you heard about these orbs?
Oh, I've heard so much about these orbs that we've had to take an entire portion of our website and devote it to nothing but orb photographs, yes.
The orbs show up on Bragg Road and they show up in areas where there are Bigfoot sightings.
What is your best guess about what these orbs are?
Well, you know, we were talking earlier about the different dimensions.
Yes, sir.
I favor the theory of what are called Riemann surfaces.
Ordinarily, when you're talking about a dimension, you're talking about, you know, this is three dimensions.
This world is three dimensions.
And then you have a fourth dimension, which would be another perpendicular.
Well, the idea of the Riemann surfaces is that you have three-dimensional universes that are parallel, as it were, but that have what they call multiple connectivity.
And that is that these parallel three-dimensional universes can actually have places where they Connect.
Portals, points of power, the exact thing that we've been talking about, that Mr. Bigelow documented in the ranch.
I think it's possible, Art, that the standing ghostlight locations may be the places Where these dimensions intersect and that these creatures are able to move back and forth from one three-dimensional Riemann surface to another when the energy that manifests these light is activated.
And of course, you know, the Southeast Texas The energies that manifest these ghost lights sometimes reach incredible intensities.
Well, earlier we attributed some intelligence or consciousness to these energies, right?
Well, yeah, at least to the lights and to the creatures, yes.
So do you think we're talking about the energy itself actually being an intelligence, or do you think that there is some separate intelligence organizing This occurrence, or creating this portal that we're talking about.
Well, that's interesting.
Jacques Bergier wrote a book, now he was the co-author of Morning of Magicians, which is a classic paranormal investigative book, came out in the seventies.
He wrote a book called Secret Portals, or Secret Doors of the Earth, in which he discussed these Riemann surfaces and so on, and his idea was that The doors, doorways could be made from one, and I hesitate to use the word dimension because they're both three-dimensional.
You follow me?
To us, though, perceptually, dimension probably is an alright word.
Okay.
He felt that there was a psychic component involved in bridging From one dimension to another.
So what might be happening in the case of these creatures is that they are able to supply that psychic component because their worldview, see, they haven't atrophied.
Those powers have not atrophied.
Those psychic powers have not atrophied in them.
In fact, they're probably fully developed.
They're able to supply that psychic component and literally create doors Have you experimented at all with night vision?
No, but you know Linda Moulton-Howe, of course.
Of course.
Well, she and I have become friends, and we are going to be doing some research, field research, this spring, using some rather advanced technology That's interesting.
In other words, when I said that, you said that.
So that suggests to me that something either that technology or technology related to it is what you're going to use in your investigation.
Is that fair?
Sir?
Is that fair?
That's interesting. In other words, when I said that, you said that. So that suggests to me that
something either that technology or technology related to it is what you're going to use in your investigation.
Is that fair?
Sir?
Is that fair?
Yes.
Well, I've got a feeling it's going to succeed because I think that long before whatever it is that we're talking
about here is manifested to the human eye, and I mean long before and
long after, there will be things visible in the infrared that are not visible to our naked eye.
Yeah, we picked it up with a regular 35mm camera.
Right, but that was at a pretty high point of the manifestation.
Correct.
So, in other words, you might catch it earlier.
Right.
We're really excited about it.
I had no idea you were involved with Linda.
Yes.
She's a very serious researcher.
She was just in the Far East.
Has she told you the story of her trip?
Well, I know that she went over to Laos to study the wild man.
That's correct.
I told her, I said, we've got them right here.
We've got them in Texas.
I think it would be a very profitable area of investigation for her.
Now think about this, Art.
If these ghost light locations are these points of multiple connectivity, they could also be like wormholes, so to speak, from one place in this world To another place.
Well, that's what they would be.
They would be, in essence, some sort of wormhole.
Right.
Sure.
And it might be that it might even be, this might be stretching it, or maybe it isn't stretching it.
If creatures can come from one side to this side, then why not have the opposite be true?
Right.
Why not?
Here's a pretty interesting question, by the way.
Yeah, why not?
If you were in the area of the formation, the kind of formation you've got a photograph of, and you had the opportunity... To jump through it?
Yes, sir.
Would you do it?
I asked first.
Well, that's a good question.
Yes, it is.
Yes.
I guess I'd have to...
I just have to let that situation arise.
Is it something that you've discussed with Linda?
No.
Here's the thing.
From my experience on Bragg Road, there's a tradition down there where people will take their families out there and it's like a picnic.
Oh, let's go look for the light.
Well, when my kids were little, they used to want me to take them out there, and I said, there's no way I'm going to take you out there.
There's things that happen out there that we do not understand.
Well, I've had a number of guests on my show, Rob, that have been involved in some pretty strange things with electromagnetics and the rest of it, and some of them, Rob, have disappeared.
And I mean disappeared.
They're not around anymore now.
I mean, yeah, you've got to imagine that's at least part of the risk of doing something like that, the probability that you might get there and you might not get back.
Yeah, I think you're right.
I think that is a possibility.
And, you know, people ask me, well, why do you want to know about these things?
Why do you want to study this?
And how do you answer that?
Well, Art, I think that the world is out of balance.
And if you'll go back and study the traditional cultures that understood these energies and these connections with other worlds and so on, you'll find that they had this concept of balance, of the need of maintaining balance, and of the human beings as conscious entities Participating and making that balance happen.
If you'll talk to the Hopi Indians, they understand this concept.
What they say is the world that we live in now, the modern western scientific materialistic culture, is out of balance.
The reason it's out of balance is we've cut ourselves off from our intuitive side.
What's happened as a result of that?
Is that we have lost contact with the spirit world.
That's exactly what they told me.
Hold on, we're at the top of the hour.
That's exactly what they told me.
For hours, I interviewed ob-elders on this program.
That's what it came down to, if you heard it.
I am a night creature.
But I do live in a structure.
the will be right back
the the
the the right
the right the
Oh Like a dog without a bone and actor out of love.
Writer's on the store.
There's a killer on the road.
His brain is squirming like a toad.
Take a long holiday.
Let your children play.
If you give this man a ride, sweet mamma, he will die.
Killer on the road.
Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye.
From west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
To reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them
dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye.
My guest is Rob Riggs, and we're talking about all kinds of really, really, really kidding things.
Bigfoot, wild man, plasma balls, balls of light.
And perhaps something that coexists with us, or perhaps something that coexists in an adjacent dimension with us.
Anyway, absolutely fascinating stuff and we'll get right back to it.
Well, I see my thunder was a bit premature, but that's all right.
We'll take care of that.
Back now to our guest, Rob Riggs.
Rob, welcome back.
Thank you, sir.
I've got a lot of people that would like to chat with you.
All right.
And I suppose they have questions or comments for you, but you've opened up about 10,000 miles of intriguing territory to talk about here.
So, obviously, they've got questions.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Rob Riggs.
Hi.
Hello.
Good evening.
Good evening, sir.
Where are you?
I am calling from Austin, Texas.
All right.
I'm calling at 1200 out of San Antonio.
Now, here's an interesting situation.
You're both in the Austin area.
Which means that this signal is going about several hundred thousand miles for the two of you to be talking to each other, right next to each other!
Right here.
So you go right ahead.
Well, actually I'm in San Marcos, which is right down the road.
Actually, I'm in Buda, which is almost in San Marcos.
Well, there you go, there you go.
I am actually from the Beaumont area.
I grew up there and graduated high school there in the early 90s.
And I've spent, or I've actually taken several trips up to, we called it the Saratoga Light, Brad Road, many different things.
But I've been up there many times with different people.
You know, it was kind of a teenage thing, like you said earlier.
It was kind of a thing to do.
And I've seen it and it's really a different experience.
I don't really, the best way to describe it would be I guess kind of spooky.
But definitely fog and the light coming at you.
Moving, it seems like you're moving away from it, and then all of a sudden, I've never actually had it go through the vehicle I was in, but it would reappear behind us once we got a certain point down the road.
So you've seen all of this yourself?
I have seen this myself, yes I have.
More than once.
I think twice.
The one time I went out there, we did not see anything, but I, you know, you never know.
I guess it was just one of those things, but I've seen it twice out in Saratoga on the Bragg Road.
It's kind of like you were saying earlier, it's kind of a thing that you do when you're in high school and you're young and you want to go out and drink and party and have a good time.
It's like a rite of passage in Southeast Texas, isn't it?
Exactly, exactly.
I mean, there's a lot of rites of passage, I guess, in Southeast Texas as far as the big picket goes.
I went on a lot of camping trips out there and saw a lot of weird things then, too.
Camp Erland is a Boy Scout camp up in there and they had a lot of strange lights around Camp Erland.
When I was a kid going to scout camp up there.
I know this.
I know that a lot of horror movies begin on a road like that, late at night, and usually there's some loving going on, and then all that's left after it is just pieces and gore.
Well, that might be true.
And I don't mean Al Gore.
Well, it was definitely a unique experience.
Being out there with a group of people like that, it was kind of hard for everybody not to say, well, you know, get a load of that.
That's different.
I don't know where that came from.
And seeing a light, this was at night, seeing a light way down the road just in the middle of the road and just coming at you and then going away and then reappearing behind you.
And there was lots of stories.
People would say it was swamp gas or that it was this or that.
I really never knew what it was.
I knew it was different in that everybody kind of It felt a little different when we were there.
It was kind of an edge, I guess.
Everybody was kind of on edge.
I don't know what it was, and I really couldn't explain to you what it was, but it was definitely a unique experience.
I've hunted those woods also.
I know you're talking about the wild man creature and everything.
I've hunted in those woods too, and I've heard some things sitting in a deer blind out in the Big Thicket area.
I've heard things in the mornings, early, early mornings, and late at the evenings, right about dark.
Weird sounds is all I can say.
I wouldn't know what it was.
Yeah.
I mean, I would not know what it was and wouldn't have any explanation for it.
Yeah, and I'll tell you something.
If I didn't know who was on what line, I'm not sure I'd be able to tell the two of you apart.
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believe that texas is on some of these lines that we're talking
Yes, I do.
And where do they run from Texas, can you tell me?
Well, one of the interesting things about this that I get into in the book is what You know, you've heard of the planetary grid theories, I'm sure.
Of course.
I think that the standing ghostlight locations may also be indicators of vertices of the grid.
And there does seem to be some geometrical alignments of certain of the ghostlight areas on 30th degree north latitude, which runs All the way across Texas, all the way from far west Texas, all the way through to the Big Thicket.
And interestingly enough, we were talking about the Marfa Lights earlier.
Yes.
The Marfa Lights and the Bragg Light occur on exactly the same latitude, 800 miles apart.
Well, that would seem to bolster that idea, wouldn't it?
And if you follow that latitude east, there's a ghost light that occurs in Gonzales, Louisiana.
on that same latitude, and a fellow emailed me some time ago and said that there had been one in Mobile, Alabama, near Mobile, Alabama, but it had disappeared when the area was developed.
There are going to be a number of people who would like to email you, and if you have the guts, you can give out your email address.
Okay, my email address is crrigs at austintxrggs.com.
Thank you.
AustinTexas.net.
Wait a minute.
I've had over 50 emails since you posted the promo on your website.
Even before coming on the air.
C-R-R-I-G-G-S.
AustinTexas.net.
A-U-S-T-I-N-T-X.net.
You'll get plenty of email, alright.
Okay, Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Rob Briggs.
Hello.
Hi Art.
Hi Rob.
How are you doing?
Okay, sir.
Where are you?
I'm in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
Okay.
I was stationed out of Fort Bragg, North Carolina about eight years ago, and I came across something that I have not told anyone about.
And tell you the truth, it scared the living daylights out of me!
Daylights!
Day And, uh, something came out of the tree.
Tore it clean in two.
I looked the thing square in the face.
I can't tell you what it looked like.
The one thing I do remember were those eyes.
And when you played that recording about half an hour ago, Art?
Yes, sir.
It made the hair on the back of my neck and my beard stand straight out.
Even your beard?
Yeah.
I'd like a photo of that.
The thing stood upright like a man.
Uh, yeah.
And was in the trees?
Came down out of the tree?
It came out of a tree that was behind me.
And it tore that thing in half?
Damn near.
The Bigfoot are known to hate dogs, Art.
Oh.
Yeah.
They're known to hate dogs.
I think dogs are able to detect them.
But to be able to physically, uh...
Manifest, that almost feels like a different kind of stage, but I guess not really.
We found fur, they found droppings, they found footprints.
That's physical manifestation, so I guess why not, huh?
I hear a lot of stories about them killing dogs.
Really?
Yeah.
A lot of dog lovers aren't going to want to hear that.
Well, anything else, sir?
Well, the thing that really disturbed me about it, I've only talked about this to about two or three other people since this happened.
My roommate at the time, he and I went out to the same area, because it was only about two miles from where we lived, and we followed the tracks from where I was when it happened about three, four hundred yards back in the wood line, and they stopped.
That was it.
No more.
Did you look in the trees?
We checked everything.
There were no claw marks.
There were no broken twigs on any of the trees nearby.
Nothing.
Well, that's typical also.
There's your dimension shift, see?
It just flat physically disappeared.
Right.
Thank you for that story, Ed.
It's amazing.
How do we proceed, in your opinion, scientifically, to investigate?
Well, here's what I think, Art.
This is so fascinating, but how do you proceed?
Well, for one thing, we have to take an interdisciplinary approach to this.
And I think one of the reasons there hasn't been a lot of progress made in researching this stuff is that we're too specialized.
And too compartmentalized in our branches of knowledge.
Right.
And I think that in order to investigate these phenomena thoroughly, we're going to have to call on physicists like Otsuki, wildlife biologists who are willing to look at the possibilities of these things existing.
I know one in Russia and one in Canada.
We may need geologists, cultural anthropologists, psychologists.
And I think we probably need some American Indian shamans.
Well, that would be quite a group to put together.
Yes, and I would like to see that happen.
You know, I'm not sure you can investigate by committee, but the fact of the matter is, I think that we're so out of touch with this, you know, the reality that these things pertain to in this culture.
That's why it seems so fantastic and otherworldly to us.
So that would be our only hope, in terms of investigation.
The Shaman, for example.
Somebody who is at least far enough into that world to sort of take the first step in for everybody.
I think so, and you know, what this shows is that these other worlds can have physical contact with this world.
This is not just like dreaming or imagining or visualizing.
This is real physical stuff.
Well, you've got to wonder with the number of people that disappear every year, certainly there's plenty of this world explanation for why people disappear, but then there's no doubt plenty that cannot be explained in that way, and who's to say that some have not crossed Mm-hmm.
From here to another world.
Possibility, and the only ones we hear from are the ones that got away.
Yeah, that's right.
Not the ones that got there.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rob Riggs.
Hello.
Hi, my name's Travis.
I'm calling from Conroe, Texas.
All right.
Yes, yes, yes.
Well, I actually grew up in the Sour Lake area, and I spent most of my young life hunting out On a piece of property that butts up against the big thicket.
And we'll hunt in the woods and in addition to that up and down pipelines.
Right.
And I've been sitting in a deer blind looking down a pipeline and seeing a man cross the road.
And we're talking about a distance of two or three miles.
And it's not uncommon to see something like that because it's a big common leaf.
Lots of people hunt on it.
But there weren't that many people up at the lease that day.
I came back to camp, asked who was down there, because we all have to sign in before we go out and hunt, and nobody was down in that area.
In addition to that, just lots of strange noises early, early in the morning and late at night.
Right.
Can you describe those noises?
It sounded a lot like the howling I was playing earlier.
It was real faint, though.
I mean, I couldn't... Like in the distance?
In the distance.
Have you heard any reports, any sightings like that anywhere near Sour Lake?
Yes.
That's where I was when I heard the thing howling was near Sour Lake.
Oh, man.
It was the first I've heard of it, and I'm just real surprised to hear about my part of the world being on the radio.
Well, it is, sir, and your part of the world is responding big time.
Here's a very interesting fast blast on computer.
It's Wade in Huntsville, Texas, wherever that is.
He says, I've got two dogs, and they just totally went into fright when you played that Bigfoot sound.
I live in the East Texas woods.
So it's East Texas, I guess.
Yes, that's near Conroe.
And his dogs didn't like that sound at all.
But that would figure, wouldn't it?
In other words, a dog would instinctually know that whatever that is, it doesn't like them.
Right.
All right.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rob Briggs.
Hi.
Hello.
Oh, I didn't push that.
That's a sticky button.
West of the Rockies, now you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi, Rob.
It's a pleasure to talk to you.
Hi.
I have a question for you, and a comment also.
All right.
And the question is, do you think they can communicate with us in normal English?
You know, that is a particularly interesting question, because there are some Bigfoot researchers, I've had them on the program, that have played tapes that sound Just like human voice.
Sort of.
Close.
That's really interesting.
Do I think they can communicate with us in English?
Yes.
I have no idea.
You haven't heard any reports of it?
Of course, I'm from Texas and I would hope they would also speak Spanish.
Well, I lived most of my life in Montana.
I have a good friend.
He's basically a mountain man.
He's been in the woods for nearly 40 years. Last spring, him and another guy found
tracks deep in the woods in the Bull River area. He knows every animal in the woods. He
said the tracks just ended and disappeared and there is no way unless that thing just flew.
If you walked through the woods you could tell if he was there. I hear those stories
over and over again. A guy spent three months, he has seen it several times, and he spent
three months back in this area trying to find it and he never could.
You know, you're talking about communicating.
I don't know if they speak our language, but I do think they may have telepathic powers.
Actually, if you were receiving a telepathic message, it might be very difficult to tell the difference between that and speech.
Yeah, that's true.
I was being facetious, but I think you're right.
Yeah.
All right, thank you very much, Culler, and take care.
First time, Culler, you're on the air with Rob Briggs, close to the bottom of the hour.
Hello.
Hi, gentlemen.
Hi.
I'm from Madison, Wisconsin, and we had heard of Ghost Light, I guess is what you'd call it, when I was growing up in Upper Michigan.
And a couple years ago, I had the chance to go up with some friends.
I wanted them to show it to me.
And we went and saw it, and the interesting thing about it is, just based on what you've been talking about, is this light appears over an abandoned railroad bed.
And, you know, railroad beds, of course, are long and straight.
Right.
And I haven't heard of any other sightings of creatures or anything like that, but this light has been known to move, and when I thought it seemed pretty stationary, Right.
It was changing colors and stuff.
Oh, that's... But the fact that it occurred on something straight like a railroad track, that's absolutely fascinating.
See, there's your ley line.
Your inadvertent ley line again.
That's fascinating.
I bet it was during the summer, too.
All right.
Hold on.
We're at the bottom of the hour once again, Rob.
Rob Riggs, whose book is In the Big Thicket on the Trail of the Wild Man.
If you get on the trail of my website, you can get over there and get that book.
Fascinating subject.
Fascinating man.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
I can see her lying back in her satin dress, in a room where you do what you don't confess.
Some down you better take care, if I find you been creeping round my back steps.
She's been looking like a queen, queen, queen, queen, queen.
And she don't always say what she really means.
Sometimes I think it's a shame when I get To recharge Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
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This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
This is Gordon Lightfoot.
I got to interview Gordon Lightfoot, and when you interview him, he is exactly like he sounds when he sings.
And by that I mean, when he's singing, he's singing about what happened to him.
He's a pretty wild guy.
Gordon Lightfoot.
Anyway, Rob Riggs is my guest.
We're talking about what's in the thickets.
And we'll be right back.
Boy, there really is so much in this world that we just simply don't understand, isn't there?
And tonight, that's what we're talking about with Rob Riggs.
Rob, welcome back.
Thank you, sir.
Your book is available, I take it, on Amazon.com and such?
Yes, it is.
How long has it been out?
It came out this spring.
What kind of reaction have you had?
Well, you know, Art, the material in this book is so weird.
And I've tried to connect a lot of different things and it's been kind of hard to pigeonhole it.
I had a little problem with the book distributors because You know, they wanted to label it a Texana item.
Oh, I'm sorry, a what item?
Texana, you know, just relating to Texas.
Oh, I see.
And, you know, I'd like to show some of these book distributors the emails I'm getting from all over North America.
Well, why don't you?
Well, do it!
Yeah, but it is available on Amazon.com, and you could go to any bookstore in the country and order it.
It is available through the book distributors.
All right.
Or, if you want an autograph copy, you can get on my website.
I've got a, you know, you can order it by credit card over my website, and I'll send you an autograph copy.
And a secure server, I assume.
Yes, sir.
You don't have, like, an 800 number, do you?
No, sir, I don't.
Everybody has to have an 800 number.
All right, so then go to your website.
I'm not as big as you guys.
All right, here we go.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rob Briggs.
Hi.
No, I'm sorry, again, that stupid button.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air now.
Hi.
Is this Rob?
Yeah.
Hi.
Yes, sir, go ahead.
Hi, my name is Boone, and I'm in Claremont Falls, Oregon.
And if anybody's life is as weird as mine, I would like to swap stories with them.
All right.
Well, we were, I came down from Alaska, Me and my girlfriend, we went to this little campsite, and I would swear, and I would swear to this, we had a Bigfoot living about 20 feet from us.
He did not like me at all, but he liked my girlfriend.
I knew it.
And they definitely have ESP powers.
They are definitely, yeah.
I asked that half in humor when I couldn't resist playing Wild Thing and all the rest of that, but does there seem to be any preference with regard to human beings, the different sexes?
Do they react differently to women than to men?
I don't know, but I haven't been able to get very many women to go out at the big ticket with me, Art.
Good point.
It's a really good point, and so you might not have knowledge in the area.
Okay, well, yeah, that absolutely makes sense.
First time caller on the line, your turn with Rob Riggs.
Hello.
Hello.
Hello, this is Larry in Tennessee.
Hello, Larry.
Hi.
I'm about two and a half miles west of a place called Wartburg, Tennessee, and about two and a half miles east of the Catoosa Wildlife Game Reserve area.
And in 1999 I was doing a night watching job at a place called Nemo.
It's about a mile and a half from here.
And I saw six, at one time I saw six Bigfoot, I guess you would call them.
Wow.
They crossed what we call an EPA fence, a silt fence.
You know, it stops water from flowing off into the river or something.
Right.
Five of them were a darker color, and one was a lighter color.
And it really shocked me.
I worked here, you know, about six months, and I saw more than once, I saw strange things.
Six at once.
Rob, what's the likelihood that that would be a family?
I hear that these creatures...
You know, a lot of people, a lot of the Bigfoot people I've interviewed have said that they're family-oriented, really family-oriented.
I was doing a radio show down in Beaumont, Texas, and a lady called from Port Arthur, which is near there, and said when she was a child, I used to go out swimming in the bayou near Port Arthur, and they went out to go swimming one day, and they saw a An adult and a child, you know, a smaller right foot.
Right.
So that is, you know, that happens.
And as friendly as they've said to have been, I know of a case which I can't fully discuss in the center part of the country.
I better not say any more than that.
The south central part of the country.
Where somebody harmed a Bigfoot and they are suffering now every day through, get this, having stones thrown at them by what appears to be the relatives of this creature that they injured.
I can't talk any more about this case, I guess, than that right now, but I'm really serious.
This is really serious.
They're being stoned literally.
Literally.
Literally.
You ever hear of anything like that?
I've heard of stones appearing apparently from nowhere and being thrown at people.
I've never heard of Bigfoot doing that.
There's not any stones down in Big Thicket.
Or Swamp.
That's true.
There are where I'm talking about, and I wish I could say more, but it's under investigation.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Rob Briggs.
Hi.
Hello.
How are you?
Excuse me.
Where are you, sir?
I'm calling from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan.
Saskatchewan.
Way up.
Good.
I've just got to say one thing.
I've listened to your show since about 1994, and I love your show, man.
This is the coolest stuff I've heard ever.
Thank you.
Actually, what I was wondering is, has anybody to this day actually caught one of these things?
Good question.
And, you know, there's another thing, too, about that HAARP project up in Alaska.
Maybe they could use that to find him.
Find the cage and stuff.
Well, Harp is said to affect people psychologically, so you never know about maybe Bigfoot too.
The first question is a really good one though.
What's the lore regarding that?
Has anybody ever trapped, caught, Or otherwise, even temporarily, detained one of these beings?
Well, there are stories, and you don't know whether they're apocryphal or what, because we don't have the bodies in hand, but there are stories dating back to the last century, where supposedly there have been some captured.
If you can go back and read the literature, John Green and some of these fellows that kind Pioneer Bigfoot search and they supposedly traced back some
stories and I think there was one in Tennessee and again, whether these are apocryphal
stories, I don't know.
Somebody asked me, has there ever been the body of one found, like a roadkill or something?
There's a website and anything you see on the internet to me is suspect, but there are
some sites that have photographs of supposed roadkills.
Some of it looks fairly interesting.
There's one on a website called Crypto Keeper that was forwarded to me by Lou Farrish, who has a UFO organization in Arkansas, and there is a body of a road kill alleged Uh, in Derrida, Louisiana.
Now, Derrida, Louisiana is right across the Sabine River from the Big Picket.
Well, now, you see, uh, the Internet is a two-edged sword.
Uh, while everything is suspect, it's also the venue where things will be seen that otherwise you would never have a chance.
Would be suppressed, right.
You never would see it.
That's right.
Exactly.
Now, you know, there's a story that, uh, you know, frequently there are stories that, There was a story that came up in the 1950s about people finding bodies of what are assumed to be chimpanzees or baboons or apes.
There was an old big thicket guy named Lance Rozier and supposedly somebody took him the body of what they thought was a gorilla.
That they found alongside the road in Hardin County.
And they just thought it was a gorilla.
They just assumed that it escaped from a zoo or something like that.
And what is the likelihood that one of them would be run over?
They're intelligent beings and mainly in very rural areas.
Well, it's not likely, but it's an outside possibility.
But there is a story that one was taken to him to be identified.
Do you know what became of it?
No.
But the assumption was, now, the story I read didn't even link it to the Wildman stories or the Bigfoot stories.
They just assumed it was a chimpanzee or something.
Gotcha.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rob Briggs.
Hello.
Hello.
Yes, sir.
Where are you?
I'm in Beaumont, Texas.
Mr. Bell, Mr. Riggs, it's a pleasure to meet y'all.
I listen to you all the time.
I just want to let y'all know that I was at Bragg Road tonight.
I actually listened to the broadcast.
You were at Bragg Road tonight?
I was at Bragg Road, yeah.
Did the light show up?
No, there was quite a bit of traffic, actually.
There was about three other vehicles up and down the road.
I tried to call Don Briscoe down there to tell him.
So you have an affiliate in Beaumont, Texas, Art?
Yes, sir.
And I tried to call Don Briscoe to ask him to tell the listeners to be sure to tune in down there.
Well, but I'll be damned if I would go down Bragg Road in the middle of the night listening to this program.
No way.
We wanted to invite you down.
Well, we've been looking to take some road trips, so maybe, maybe.
But you were actually there tonight, huh, sir?
Yes.
When we drove down it, coming off the farm road, we went about six miles down and turned around and there was a truck that passed once or twice.
But there was no vehicles when it was coming back out.
And there was, we did see way up ahead, a flash of light go across the road real quick.
Then about, I would say about four or five minutes later, another light came back across the other way.
I couldn't tell how far ahead of it was, of us it was, but that's all that I had saw.
Well, that'll do.
And you were listening to the show while you were there?
I sure was.
In fact, I made it a point to go out there tonight because I'd never been to Bragg Road before.
So you wanted to listen to the show from there?
Exactly.
That's great.
You Texans really are a different breed, aren't you?
Let me tell you all this story.
I had a guy call in when I was doing a show down there.
And he had heard about the Bragg Light, and he was dating a girl that lived over in Batson.
And they would drive right by Bragg Road when they were going to church.
So one night he said, well, let's go on down there.
So they go down there, they get out on the road, and the girl is kind of freaking out.
So she's wanting the guy to leave.
So he says, well, he needed to answer nature's call.
So he opens the door, you know, to do that, to get out, and the light shows up.
Well, I don't put a crim in nature's call.
And then the light goes off into the woods, and then the wild man shows up, jumps on the back of the car, and starts shaking the car.
With the girl in it?
With the girl in it.
Yeah, this guy swore up and down that this was a true story.
I wonder if he ever got another date.
Not with that girl.
Yeah, that's right.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rob Riggs.
Hello.
Yes, Art.
Yes, sir.
Yeah, this is George Nortales.
Hello.
I was up in Bristol Cones about maybe two months ago.
I had my dogs with me in my truck and I was just, I was out, it was probably 11.30 at night.
My dogs started growling and then I could feel something really big.
It was like breathing down my back.
Oh man.
And then I just, I turned around, I couldn't see nothing, you know.
Actually, actually breathing down your back?
It's like he was breathing down my back, you know?
I mean, this is the Bristol Cones, and you know, the Paiutes have a song for them, for the Bigfoot songs.
They sing in some of their rituals, you know?
Yes.
I mean, and a couple of other crazy things have happened to me up there, too.
I've seen some lights that are... Where was this?
This is in the High Sierras.
Uh huh.
It's a real sort of sacred ground there, you know?
Right.
You know, the mountains have all these geological forms and stuff on them, and the Paiutes are really, I guess, pretty strong.
That's the American... Yeah, they have a Bigfoot song they sing when they do their sweat lodges and stuff like that, you know?
And I think it could be that the Bigfoot is sort of like a spiritual helper, you know?
Yeah, there are some traditions that claim that they are like familiars.
You know, they come in, they call them in, you know, they come in and that's why they're like a spirit.
So that's why nobody ever finds them, you know.
They live in two worlds.
Exactly, you know, they come in and out, you know.
Yeah, Art, you ought to look up a couple of parts of your medicine, man.
You're right, I'm sick of it.
You're sick of it, alright.
Yes, sir.
In the Big Thicket, on the Trail of the Wild Man, is it full of anecdotal stories?
Is it instructional in any way?
Well, the book is based on about 20 years of research, of my own experience, of field research, going out into the woods, of interviewing, of eyewitnesses, Of correspondence with leading scientists and investigators from around the world and it has a lot of stories and the stories are mainly from eyewitnesses.
In some cases I'll put second or third hand stories if they corroborate or if they're part of a pattern.
I don't put a lot of folklore in there.
And all of this is still going on today, if not in greater magnitudes than in prior days, right?
Yes.
That's a really, really interesting thing to know.
There are many of us who believe, you know, just we call it the veil.
Right.
Whatever it is that separates here and there is beginning to lift a little bit or more frequently than it has in the past.
I agree, and my interest in all of this is what it implies about paradigm shift.
You hit it right in the head.
Listen, guess what?
Our program is over.
We've got to go.
What a pleasure it has been to have you on the air.
It has been great.
I've enjoyed the opportunity of talking to you and your listeners.
Rob, thank you.
Thank you so much.
Good night.
Good night.
From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
Ta-ta.
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