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Jan. 10, 2002 - Art Bell

02:04:44

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Mysterious Sightings of East Texas - Rob Riggs

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unidentified		I've had nothing but bad love since the day I saw the cat night go So I came into you, sweet lady Answering your mystical call Crystal ball on the table Showing my future the past Sing cat with them you hold And I thought it was a spaghet
		She's just a devil woman with evil on her mind.
		Beware the devil woman, she's gonna get you.
		She's just a devil woman with evil on her mind.
		Beware the devil woman, she's gonna get you from behind.
		To reach Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To reach Art on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator at...
		have them dial 800-893-0903 This is Coast to Coast AM with our bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, coming up in a moment, Rob Riggs.
		and i know here though of some people who are fast-living uh...
		rochester was on here bragging about their snow uh...
		i'm being told here by people in the new york area that buffalo They certainly have snow to spare.
		Right?
		But they're trucking the snow all the way to Rochester for the mountain.
		Is that really true?
		All right.
		Coming up in a moment, Rob Riggs, who is a journalist and the former publisher of a series of award-winning community newspapers down in Texas.
		His interest is in ghost lights, wild man sightings, and related phenomena.
		It all began when he was a child.
		Of course it did.
		When he heard tales about all of these things in his hometown of Sour Lake in Big Thicket Country, Riggs began writing about the subject more than 20 years ago while working as a reporter for the Kuntz News.
		Since then, his studies of the phenomena have been featured in the Houston Chronicle and the Beaumont Enterprise.
		Riggs has also consulted on ghost lights for Waseda University in Tokyo and Harvard College Observatory.
		so all of us immediately ahead Okay, here in the nighttime is Mr. Riggs, Rob Riggs.
		Rob, how are you?
		Good morning, Art.
		Good morning, Rob.
		Where are you?
		I'm in Austin, Texas.
		Oh, down in Austin.
		Yes, sir.
		All right.
		You have an affiliate here that carries your show.
		That's right.
		That's exactly right.
		And which one is that?
		K-L-B-J-A-M.
		Uh-huh.
		K-L-B-J-L-B-J.
		That means something.
		L-B-J.
		Lyndon Baines, Johnson.
		Yeah, darn right.
		All right.
		The thicket.
		What do you mean by thicket?
		What is thicket?
		Is that just high weed country?
		No, there is a region.
		What a lot of people around the country don't realize is that the eastern, about the eastern quarter of Texas is heavily forested.
		It is the western extent of the southern mixed forest.
		Oh, there's no question about it.
		Eastern Texas in general is green and pretty lush.
		You know, everybody's, you know, they think of Texas as sort of semi-arid the desert.
		And a lot of Texas is like that, but not the eastern part.
		It's a whole different area.
		It's basically like Louisiana, Mississippi, and the deep south.
		Sure.
		As a matter of fact, the forested areas of East Texas are roughly equivalent to the forested areas of the entire New England state.
		That's a lot of forests.
		Yeah, so just to give people an idea of the scale, I know when some people hear that there's a Bigfoot in Texas, they immediately think, well, how could there be a Bigfoot in Texas?
		Well, because we have a lot of suitable habitat.
		Obviously, I mean, if Bigfoot is real, then he's going to require the kind of area that you're talking about to be able to evade death or capture.
		Correct.
		Now, the Big Thicket is what is a name that has traditionally been given to the southern end of the East Texas Piney Woods.
		This is roughly between the Trinity River, the lower Trinity River, which is just east of Houston, about to the Louisiana border.
		And the region is about 60, 70 miles wide and about the same distance north to south.
		And it encompasses the two biggest river swamp systems in East Texas and many bayous marshes.
		I want to stop you for just one moment.
		Have you been a listener to the show for a while?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember a man who claimed that he killed two Bigfoot?
		I heard that story, but I heard that was up in the panhandle of Texas.
		Mm-hmm.
		Uh-huh.
		Which is more like the country you were referring to, the other kind of country of part of the.
		That's correct.
		Now, I won't say that there have never been any sightings of Bigfoot in Texas outside of East Texas.
		You know, there have been some.
		And matter of fact, I know of two organizations in Texas that that chart recent sightings, both of which have websites.
		And one of them actually reported a sighting in Lago Vista, which is on Lake Travis right outside of Austin in the Hill Country.
		There is some land out there that's fairly undeveloped, owned by the local river authority.
		So you have approached this whole thing as a journalist?
		Yes, sir.
		The way I got started on this art is that I grew up in a little town called Sour Lake, which is population 1600, right on the southern edge of the Big Thicket.
		There is a national park in the Big Thicket.
		Actually, it's a preserve administered by the Park Service.
		And Sour Lake is within about three miles of the boundary of the park.
		And I grew up hearing the stories from the time I was about 10 years old.
		I remember stories about a naked hairy wild man having been seen in Hardin County.
		It was reported in the newspaper, the Coontz News, which I ultimately grew up to have my first newspaper job working for that actual paper.
		I remember the articles.
		And when I wrote the book, I went back and researched and got the articles.
		And they were in 1952, which, incidentally, is about six years before the Bigfoot stories became popularized in California.
		Nobody ever heard the term Bigfoot that far back.
		So in the newspaper stories, and even now, you referred to this as a wild man.
		Well, it has been referred to as a hairy, naked, wild man.
		People didn't know what to call that.
		And you'll find, now this is kind of interesting.
		In the Pacific Northwest, you have a long history of sightings going back to the Native Americans.
		And they basically have come to be known as Bigfoot or Sasquatch.
		That's right.
		Well, in the Deep South, and what many people are aware of is that there is an equally long tradition of sightings of large hairy humanoid creatures throughout the Deep South, from East Texas up into Arkansas.
		Well, let me ask you this.
		We know the traditional look of Bigfoot and House described by the Patterson film and by a lot of other things.
		People have seen it on TV or whatever, right?
		So they know what that looks like.
		Now, Wild Man, that almost sounds like it could be a description of a feral human being.
		Well, that's one of the intriguing parts of the story, Art, is that sometimes the descriptions do seem more like that.
		But the descriptions have also...
		I've talked to people on radio shows.
		Good.
		Then how hairy?
		I mean, I've seen Bigfoot, and it's really hairy like animal hair.
		Now, wild man is apparently sometimes described as just really hairy, and there are really hairy humans, and there are really feral.
		People don't know about that.
		They don't believe it, but there are feral humans.
		Wild humans, like wild animals.
		Well, that's one possibility of what we may be dealing with here.
		But to tell you the truth, there are two categories of sightings that I have run across in the Big Thicket.
		One is like a typical Bigfoot.
		It is described as an ape-like creature covered with hair.
		There is another description, which is more like what you're talking about.
		People have described it as appearing like a primitive-looking Indian.
		Now, I'll tell you something.
		There was a tribe of Indians that lived on the Texas Gulf Coast from about Corpus Christi, which is around the Middle Coast, up to about Galveston Island.
		That was called the Carankawas.
		Anthropologists consider them to have been probably the most primitive Indians that lived in the United States.
		Some people think that they may actually have been a primitive form of man, that they may not have been Homo sapiens sapiens.
		Their average height of the male warriors was reputed to have been over seven feet tall.
		They are said to have grown long hair down past their waist and to have worn animal pelts.
		Okay, but that's, you know, that's not really typical.
		Is it of early humans?
		In other words, even as we can look at sort of macro evolution for humans, we seem to be getting taller.
		But if you go back, you would think we would be smaller if it was a direct relation to us.
	Well, that's what I say.
	It may not have been a Homo sapiens sapiens.
	And, you know, there are stories.
	And, you know, I don't have any proof of this, but I have heard stories of Bronze Age mounds in the United States that have been excavated where they found skeletons of gigantic human beings.
	And some people think that these may have actually been, you know, you always hear the story, well, if Bigfoot is real, why haven't we ever found any of their bones?
	Some people think, well, that may be it.
	That might be.
	But, you know, as you know, many times when any information like that surfaces, it is suppressed because it doesn't fit the dominant paradigm of how things are assumed to have been.
	Well, that's right.
	And in fact, actually, a lot of the bones that have been discovered have been hidden away because there is no reasonable way to explain them.
unidentified		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They end up in the basements of museums.
		That's crazy.
		People don't believe it, but that's really true.
		That is exactly what happens to them.
		Right.
		Instead of considering that we have an important find here that may be a link, they don't want to think about that, so they just put it up on the shelf.
		Pretty crazy, huh?
		Yep.
		Well, now, what I was going to say about these Karanquas is that in many ways, He's got black hair down past his waist.
		He's wearing animal skins.
		And they were known to have covered their bodies with mud to keep off, and alligator or shark oil to keep off the mosquitoes in the marshes.
		If you can imagine that you're in the woods, in dim light and shadow, and you were to come across one of those, it would look like he was covered with hair.
unidentified		Well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		it could look like it now i have had sightings in the big thicket of people describing Yes.
		I have had people in a particular area near the mouth of the Trinity River and the Trinity Swamps.
		Now, there have even been some investigators, I believe it was, well, John Green, some of the early Bigfoot investigators, who have suggested that the Karakawas may have actually migrated to the Pacific Northwest and that what we're seeing is and thinking our Bigfoot may actually be survivors of the Karankawa tribe.
		Well, whatever.
		Why is it not reasonable to assume that there could be some peoples out there, some creatures or humans or whatever they are, that simply have decided they do not wish to share in our modern lifestyle, period.
		They don't want anything to do with this civilization.
		It's not the way they live, nor is it the way they want to live.
		And so they don't.
		Well, as a matter of fact, Art, I reached that conclusion in my book.
		Really?
		Yes.
		And I think that that may well be the case.
		And I think that these people, and I do think we're dealing with people, whether they're a primitive form of human being or something in between a human being and an ape, I think that they have abilities to evade our detection that are off the scale in terms of weirdness.
		And this is based on...
		So far off scale as to us to Seem like magic or paranormal or this is what my research in East Texas and Louisiana has indicated to me.
		And it's interesting because it overlaps, say in the case of Louisiana, it overlaps with the voodoo practice among the Cajuns and the Creoles.
		And in Mississippi, it overlaps.
		I got an email today from a Choctaw Indian who talked about, he looked at my website, looked at the things I was writing about, and he talked about how this was part of the shamanic practices of their witch doctors, and they knew about these things dating back to antiquity.
		And you'll find, if you study the folklore of the American Indians in the Pacific Northwest and in the Deep South, they say that these creatures are an ancient form of human being that does, in fact, avoid contact with civilization.
		Well, that could be a logical thing for somebody to do, to say, don't want a damn thing to do with it.
		Here's the way we live.
		Not only that, but because they're so separate and reject all that is that we are, then they would develop their own everything, really.
		And they might develop in an entirely different way with different talents and abilities and senses.
		Yes, and you know, there's the theory about the two sides of the brain.
		Oh, yes.
		And we, modern Western society has developed the rational side of the brain.
		And our whole worldview and the whole way we look at reality, the way we look at nature, the way we look at everything is based on that.
		Even time.
		Yes, everything, yes.
		Yes, I was hearing what y'all were talking about, time.
		Well, imagine if you had a human being that developed the intuitive side of the brain to the nth degree.
		Which is probably exactly what you would do if you were not caught up in the culture.
		If you were a feral, wild human being.
		Absolutely.
		The intuitive side would be raging in you in all probability.
		Yeah, I can imagine that, sure.
unidentified		There are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you go, you know, there aren't many of them left, but if you go to some of the so-called primitive traditional shamanic cultures in the third world, where there is any surviving that actually have maintained shamanic traditions, their worldview is entirely alien to what we think of as real.
		They have contact with what they call the spirit world.
		They have incredible, there is evidence of incredible psychic and paranormal abilities that we've lost.
		It's like part of our brain is atrophied because of the way our culture has developed, the way we've evolved.
		It's atrophied.
		And in these feral people, these wild people, who are not even to the level of what would be the shamanic traditional cultures, it's like the exact opposite.
		All right.
		Hold it right there.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		I'm sure he's absolutely right about that capability.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Good morning.
unidentified		I've been drifting on the sea of hobby.
		Trying to keep myself ashore for so long.
		For so long.
		Listen to the strangest story.
		Wondering where it all went wrong for so long.
		For so long.
		But hold on, hold on, hold on.
		do what you got So hold on, hold on, hold on to what you got.
		Thank you.
		He gave himself back to her long ago.
		Said a better food.
		She tried hard to be creative, forget to be creative.
		What did he like?
		He must have smiled for his misfortune.
		Never coming near what he wanted to say.
		Or did you realize he never really wanted Everywhere just to her?
		Everybody else watched that Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the Toll-Free International line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nigh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is, and I just got a very interesting fast blast.
		This is interesting.
		I'm not going to give the name of the person who sent it from Banger Main.
		But it says, Art, when I was a kid in Boston, and obviously he's older now, right?
		I met a man who represented himself as you, meaning me, Arbel.
		Was it you or an imposter?
		Now get this, folks.
		If it was you, I told you all about time travel and about the future.
		If it was or wasn't you, let me know.
		This person might want to send me an email for any further communication.
		Back now into the thicket with Rob Riggs, who wrote a book that you can find out about on my website, and of course, amazon.com and so forth and so on.
		It's called In the Big Thicket on the Trail of the Wild Man.
		Here's Rob again.
		Okay, Rob, question for you, if you don't mind.
		With regard to either one of these classes, you know, the wild man or Sasquatch or Bigfoot, whatever you want to call it, what are the reports that you consider perhaps credible involving what they can do that to us seems paranormal?
		Well, James Swan, who is a professor at Cal State Davis, did a study in the Pacific Northwest about 12 years ago.
		And he noted that a typical Bigfoot sighting involved a feeling of charged energy in the atmosphere.
		And then you would hear, typically you would hear a howling sound.
		Sometimes you would smell a musky odor.
		Then people would see, frequently would see the wild man or the Sasquatch or the Bigfoot in a range of usually a few miles over a period of a few days, and then it would simply vanish.
		And many times there have been search parties put together and posse going out with bloodhounds and so on.
		They have failed to find them.
		A lot of people don't know that that's true.
		These stories have been sort of more than just stories, so much so that, yeah, posse have been formed, people have gone out en masse looking for these things, and they are just gone.
		Right.
		Now, this is why art, you know, there's two basic schools in regard to the Bigfoot phenomenon, and that is what they call the flesh and blood and the paranormal.
		This is why I can't buy into merely the flesh and blood.
		Because there's too much history of these things just disappearing.
		And there is some testimony of people saying, of literally seeing them vanish before their very eyes.
		How many reports like that are there?
		That's pretty impressive.
		Well, I don't have any from the big thicket.
		But if you study the literature, and there are a number of people, in fact, I have drawn on the research of a number of well-known writers, John Keel, Lauren Coleman, who are people that I correspond with.
		Sure, I know Lauren.
		Yeah, and Paul Devereaux and David Clark and the boards from England and Dr. Michael Persinger from Canada.
		And these are all people that I've either studied and or corresponded with and have gotten to be friends with.
		There's a substantial body of evidence in this regard.
		And this has led some people, like Dr. Persinger, to basically dismiss the things as hallucinatory.
		I can't dismiss them as hallucinatory because there's too much physical evidence.
		That is, you know, footprints.
		There have been recorded footprints of the Big Thicket Wild Man and Bigfoot, you know, all over.
		And there are some, apparently there are some hair samples, you know, and this phenomenon, by the way, is international.
		I'm corresponding with a wildlife biologist from Russia.
		There's a long tradition of, and they actually call it wild man there too, and in China in the remote area.
		Help me out here.
		They have retrieved hair, and I have heard that in a number of tests, it simply comes back, no known mammal.
		Right.
		I've heard out of his first results coming back as primate but unknown.
		Unknown primate, yeah.
		But the point is, Dr. Swan interviewed a couple of American Indian, Native American shaman in his part of his investigation, and they told him simply that, well, the reason that you can't find these beings is because they live in two worlds.
		They can manifest in this world, and they can leave this world.
		Well, maybe they live in two dimensions.
		Right.
unidentified		well i would say that would be uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		that would be living in two worlds uh...
		only would they work what american indian might call what we would say living in two dimensions now another another thing they said People are just now understanding there may well be more dimensions up to 11.
		They're just beginning to, I think, grasp that.
		So then the possibility that a creature like this would live in an adjacent dimension is fairly probable.
		I think so.
		And I'm getting to why I think it's highly likely.
		But the Indians also said that they believed that these Creatures had the power to make themselves invisible to a human observer.
		And John Green, and you can go back and check some of the original Bigfoot research that came out in the 60s and some of the classic Bigfoot books.
		And a number of the different research teams reported being in Bigfoot country, actually hearing them, and in some cases, actually hearing them walking around in their vicinity and not being able to see them.
		See, to me, that would be different than being in another dimension.
		If it was just invisibility or somebody winking out, you could think they're going to another dimension.
		Obviously, to us, they are suddenly invisible.
		But you're suggesting...
		Well, they might have both of those.
		and the ground shakes and the twigs break and they make footprints but right there's nothing to see but they may also be able to do Because what they may be dealing with is elements of perception and ambient energy fields involved with perception that we're basically ignorant of.
		And this is something our neuroscientists are just beginning to understand about how parts of the brain work in terms of how we organize the perception, the perception of an external objective reality, the temporal lobe and so on.
		This is what Dr. Persinger has done, some admirable work in terms of how the temporal lobes work in regard to organizing our perception of external reality.
		And his theory is that something interferes with that process, and usually he postulates that it's these unusual energies.
		You know, like I say, and Swan says that the first thing that will happen is there'll be a sense of an unusually strong energy field in an area before the wild man shows up.
		We see in a certain spectrum.
		Yes, exactly.
		We see in a certain spectrum, and I think it may have something to do with vibrational levels.
		And if something begins vibrating at a frequency that takes it to a level beyond our vision's capability, to us it would become invisible.
		Right.
		Exactly.
		And the reverse would also be true.
		Like, if you were suddenly subjected to an energy field and your mind became entrained to an energy field that raised the vibrations, you might then be able to see something that you would not normally be able to see.
		That's right.
		That's exactly right.
		All right.
		Now, there are other reports.
		There are reports in the thicket of something called a ghost light.
		right now that's interesting uh...
		when you uh...
		Okay, there are about now all the people that I have mentioned to you before, these other researchers, particularly Paul Devereaux and David Clark from the UK, have written about what are in the English-speaking world are normally called ghost lights or mystery lights.
		And these are typically spherical lights, usually about the size of a basketball, usually of an intense bluish-white luminosity, that tend to occur and recur in the same areas over long periods of time.
		They call it the standing ghost light phenomenon.
		And they tend to be highly localized or to occur within an area, say, a few miles.
		Now, Michael Persinger and Lauren Coleman and a number of others have documented about 40 locations in North America where there are long-standing standing ghost-like locations.
		And there are a number of them also in the UK, and they're all around the world.
		Let me lay something on you, okay?
		Let's see if this makes any sense to you.
		There have been some new discoveries in physics.
		I listened to a physicist interviewed by Whitley Striber on Dreamland who has measured what are called plasma balls that are very much like these balls of light you're talking about.
		That wouldn't be Professor Otsuki, would it?
		I believe it is, yes.
		Yeah, I've met Professor Osuki.
		Well, at any rate, he has demonstrated scientifically that these plasma balls are able to either keep their energy static or actually increase it.
		Now, if you think that, you know, and that's just impossible from a physics point of view.
		It's a thermodynamic electrodynamics theory, right?
		It just can't be.
		If it's some freak of nature that created this plasma ball, one could understand that perhaps.
		But it would obviously lessen quickly in intensity, you know, and burn out in the atmosphere.
		But this is what they, honest to God, they're discovering that these things maintain or increase the amount of energy they use to continue to be this plasma ball.
		It's the damnedest thing.
		Well, you're exactly right.
		Now, Art, people have been seeing these ghost lights in the big thicket since at least the turn of the century.
		In the 1960s, an old newspaper editor down there in Kuntz started writing about it, and he called on scientists in the area to come out and study the phenomenon and try to explain it.
		Well, they came out and rather, you know, rather lamely tried to pass it off as swamp gas.
		Swamp gas?
		Now, to this date, Art, as far as I know, there has never been any serious study of the the big thicket ghost light by any American team of physicists.
		But in 1989, I participated in a research on Bragg Road with Professor Otsuki of Waseda University, Japan.
		Oh, no kidding.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he concluded that there were plasma balls on Bragg Road.
		He also said, interestingly enough, now there is another ghost light location in West Texas called the Marfa Lights.
		Oh, yes.
		It's quite famous.
		Sure.
		He told me that in his experience, there were more sightings of what he called ball lightning or plasma balls in Texas than anywhere in the world.
		yeah sounds right uh...
		between the the ghost light in west texas and the ghost planet it are you can Before we return to that, can you help me out with something that I really do need help with?
		All my life, I've heard everything in the world dismissed as swamp gas.
		Do you live near the swamps?
		The big thicket is in the swamps.
		He's in the swamps.
		Okay, so then what is swamp gas and what is it capable of doing?
		Do you know Patrick Wiege?
		No.
		Well, he wrote a book called Swamp Gas Times about his studies of UFOs.
		And my response to that is, you know, if all the, I've been interviewing people and studying these phenomena for 20 years, and I don't know of anybody who's ever seen swamp gas.
unidentified		What?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you serious?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have never seen a photograph of swamp gas.
		Well, I haven't either.
		I haven't either.
		I'm not sure it actually exists.
unidentified		I think it's a government conspiracy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so there's never been a case of like a story in a local paper there.
		Oh my God, swamp gas situation bad last night.
		No.
		Local citizens observed strange swamp gas lights there.
		You know, you're talking about how these ghost lights cannot be explained and electrodynamic theory.
		Well, you know, people trot out theories about earthquake lights and so on and so on and ball lightning tried to explain them, but those are all discharge phenomena that are very short-lived.
		Well, besides, it would behave as it should behave.
		If it was lightning or something like that, you've got an initial charge.
		Yes, they're discharged.
		It creates this, whatever it is, and then it dissipates or even explodes, and ball lightning does that.
		Right.
unidentified		And the same with the swamp gas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And from what I can tell, swamp gas is actually a very rare phenomenon.
		But neither one of us have any evidence of swamp gas existing.
		Well, that's right.
		And yet it has been used to explain.
		Yes.
		Think of the oddity of that.
		Something that itself has never been realized as real is used to explain other stuff that they can't figure out.
		Exactly.
		And by the way, Art, while we're talking, I would like to invite your listeners to go to my website, which is mysteriousdimension.com.
		wait a minute let me see if we have uh...
		Yes.
		Oh, and we do.
		Here it is, mysteriousdimension.com.
		You go to my website, folks.
		Go to tonight.
		Let's go to introduction.
		Yep.
		And at the top, there will be a slideshow that gives you some pictures of the Big Thicket.
		And the first one is a picture of the ghost road.
		Now, this road is where the Big Thicket Ghost Light appears.
		Wait a minute.
		I'm on your website.
		Yeah.
		All right.
		Go to Introduction.
		If I go to Intro at the bottom of the page, I did intro at the top.
		Oh, okay.
		Here I am.
		Do you see the road with the...
		This is what they call the ghost road.
		This is where the ghost light appears in the big picket.
		This is pretty cool.
		Yeah, especially the way it's presented here.
		The pictures peel away from each other in three dimensions.
		Oh, somebody did some really good work.
		Yeah, the man named Ir Kennedy from San Marcus, Texas, designed this for me.
		He's a real pro.
		Oh, this is really cool.
		Now, Art, the first picture is a picture of the ghost road where the light occurs.
		And then there are some big thicket scenes.
		Now, if you scroll down, you'll see a picture that looks like fog.
		Oh, yeah, I'm there.
		You see that?
		Yep.
		That is a photograph of one phase of manifestation of the big thicket ghost light.
		Wow.
		It actually has different phases that it can appear.
		Who caught these photographs as it manifested like this?
		Wow.
		My friend Bill Fleming and I, who is my associate research, done a lot of research down there with me and I took this photograph.
		Now listen to this.
		This is really interesting.
		We went to the ghost road and drove about halfway down the length.
		And in the distance, we thought we saw a light cross the road and go off into the woods.
		So we drove up to about where we thought that was and we set up.
		And we had talked to a man from Joplin, Missouri, who had done some photographic studies.
		Hold your story.
		No, hold your story right there.
		It'll be a cliffhanger during the break.
		That's how we get people to stick around.
		His pictures are awesome.
		You've got to see what he's got.
		Go to my website.
		Go to tonight's guest info and click on his website.
	This is absolutely excellent stuff.
	Really good photographs.
	My, my, my.
	It's the mysterious mention.com website, and the link is right there on my website.
	So go take a look.
	It's well worth a look.
	I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Plans of opportunity, yeah.
		For a classy girl like you, fall for a poor boy like me.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Some velvet morning when I'm straight I'm gonna open up your gate And maybe tell you about Phaedra And how she gave me life And how she made
		it in Some velvet morning when I'm straight Flowers growing on our hill Driving flies and doubtful dears Learn from us very much Look
		at us but do not touch Phaedra is my name To reach Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye From west of the Rockies dial 1-800-618-8255 East of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033 First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222 Or
		use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295 To reach Art on the toll-free international line Call your AT&T operator have them dial 800-893-0903 This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert, that's who we are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, once again, Rob Riggs, we were talking about plasma balls and the lights and looking at your website.
		You know what?
		I'm afraid I'm sorry about this, but I'm being told by people on FastBlast that your website is blown up.
		It's blown up?
		Yeah, it's blown up.
		Too many people hitting it?
		Yeah.
		It's too bad.
		I would still urge people to try this.
		It's pretty awesome.
		I mean, the photograph of the forming light in the formation stage is really neat.
		That is some photograph.
		That's what we call the luminous mist or luminous fog stage.
		And the way people who see that describe it in the distance, it's like a small fog bank with a bright spot in it.
		And you can see at the top of the photograph where it's brighter.
		You absolutely can, yes.
		Now, listen to this, Art.
		When we took that photograph, we did not see that light.
		What, really?
		Right.
		We were told by a gentleman who was researching the ghost light in Joppa, Missouri, which I think they call the Ozark spook light.
		If you would go to a place where the ghost lights manifest, you could take photographs and that sometimes the energy that manifests the lights would be there just outside the visible light range.
		Is the photograph to the right of it of the same area as it is?
		That is a test photograph.
		The photograph to the right was taken with a flash.
		The photograph to the left that showed the fog was taken without a flash.
		That's awesome.
		These are clear, folks, so you know what you're going after, if you can get on the website.
		These are clear, probably were 35 millimeter.
		Right, 35 millimeter with the 1,000 speed colour.
		Very clear, very clear.
		So quite convincing.
		Ooh, this is cool.
		Now, Art, that phase can also be visible, though.
		We got it right outside the visible light range, but it can also be visible.
		Now, I have also had people testify that they had seen the fog collapse into the bright spot and form the sphere.
		And that's when it becomes visible to the basketball-sized sphere.
		Now, I have talked to people who have seen that thing for five minutes, who have had the light chase them up and down the road at speeds of 50, 60 miles an hour.
		Really?
		Yes.
		And there's no light known to any thermodynamics or electrodynamics that would act like that.
		You use the word chase.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chase.
		Now, do you really mean that in the literal sense of the word?
		Because that implies intelligent action, you know?
		Yes.
		I interviewed a man in Beaumont.
		I was teaching school there, and word got out that I was, this is when I first started researching the book.
		This man came to me, his name was Jim.
		And he said, Mr. Riggs, he says, I'm going to tell you about what happened to me on Bragg Road.
		And it's been 30 years since I saw this thing, and I have never told anyone before, and I have never been back to that place.
		He saw the light.
		He went out there when he was a teenager, a bunch of kids.
		The light comes up, approaches them from the front of their vehicle, gets right over their car, into their car, and stalls the engine.
		Oh, that would indicate electromagnetic.
		Right, it has electromagnetic parameter.
		But they said that these kids were terrified because they said the thing was like it was alive.
		Now, I have since interviewed a number of witnesses who have had similar experiences with the thing knocking out their electrical systems on their cars.
		And this is typical of ghost lights around the country.
		Well, maybe it was alive.
		Yeah.
		Now, here's the thing, though.
		In many ghost light locations, people make that observation that the lights seem to be alive to play with them, to be inquisitive, to be conscious of their presence.
		Now, I do not have a photograph of the basketball size phase of the manifestation.
		I do have a photograph of another phase which is called the firefly phase.
		The firefly phase, generally, it is a smaller light, not as big as the basketball size.
		It looks like a large firefly, and they appear in the treetops.
		They're also called pinpoint lights.
		And typically, it would just be one light.
		And we were out there one night, and the light appeared above our heads.
		This wouldn't be where George Bush stole that phrase, would it?
		What phrase?
		A thousand points.
		I don't know.
		But the point is, the light can manifest in different ways, or at least, or you could say this, then there may be phases of the same manifestation of the same phenomenon, or they could be different phenomena.
		They could be different things, all of which are luminous.
		Now, here's an interesting thing about Bragg Road.
		Bragg Road is almost perfectly straight.
		It's about eight miles long, and it's almost exactly oriented to north and south.
		It almost has total thicket cover, too.
		You know, if there were no lights, no creatures, nothing, at night it would be one freaky, scary road to go down.
		Big thicket is a scary place, Arthur.
		Yeah, it is.
		And it has been known as such for ever since, you know, it's been settled by, you know.
		As a matter of fact, there is archaeological evidence that the Indians never settled the heart of the Big Thicket where the lights appear.
		That they avoided it.
		Really?
		Yes, and the tradition is that they said that that part of the woods was haunted by demons and they wouldn't go there.
		There is no evidence of any permanent Indian culture having existed in that part of Hardin County.
		Use the word demons?
		That's, yes.
		Well, no, they had their own word for that.
		But it amounted to demons.
		Yes.
		And traditionally, there are places around the country where this is the case, where the howling, hairy creatures appear, where the weird lights appear.
		And so the point is that there's a correlation between the appearance of these lights, Art, and the appearance of the wild men.
		I really was not fully conscious of that association until I started writing stories about the ghost lights.
		Have you ever heard or seen one of these creatures?
		I have heard it, yes.
		And I have interviewed about 15 or 20 people who have actually seen it and or heard it.
		At 1988.
		Excuse me, but you've personally heard it.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		One moment, please.
		does it in any way sound like this?
unidentified		crickets
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that's one recording that I have.
		And if I were to categorize that, I'd say we're listening to a wild man.
		It sounds like a wild man to me.
		Laura, let me tell you what happened to me.
		I had deduced, after having studied it for some time, that there was an area where I could go and I might have a chance of intercepting sort of a travel route that they might use.
		I went out in the deep woods and it was a pipeline right away that cut through the woods.
		I got on a deer blind and sat on this deer blind and actually spent that night on the deer blind.
		I woke up and about an hour before sunrise, that thing couldn't have been more than about 20 yards from me.
		It was so loud, Art, that you could, the air was, it's like the air was vibrating and you could feel the vibrations in your chest.
		All right, here is the other sound.
		Now this is said to be a Bigfoot sound.
		So since you've heard something, you listen carefully to the following because this has been verified to be an actual Bigfoot sound.
		let's see how this one goes with you or or That obviously recorded at some distance.
		does that sound anything like that you know there are actually And there are actually a number of different calls that the creatures make.
		One of them, that loud one, the first one you played, that's what I heard.
		That was a howling, just an indescribable howling sound.
		They also have another call that's almost more bird-like, very loud and very higher-pitched and is shorter.
		And like they'll make a series of those sounds.
		I got an email from a lady who grew up in the swamps around Lafayette, Louisiana.
		And she said, in Louisiana, they call them the loop garoo or werewolf.
		And she said it was common knowledge way back in the swamps.
		And the old people actually left food out for these things.
		And she said that they heard them frequently.
		And that there was no animal known to any of the people in the swamps that could make that sound.
		It was totally, you know, couldn't be duplicated by anything else.
		Now, I will say this, after that experience, I have not gone back into the woods alone again.
		I wouldn't either.
		Yeah.
		So you're not crazy?
		I'm brave, but I'm not crazy.
		So you would not seek out after what you experienced.
		You wouldn't seek out an encounter, I mean, even with others, or would you?
		Well, yes.
		You would.
		I would, and I'll tell you why.
		So you're a little crazy.
		Yes, but my feeling was at that time when that was happening that I was totally at the mercy of that thing.
		Yeah.
		And that if it had wanted me, it could have had me right there.
		Well, now that is an interesting point you bring up.
		I think I've talked to most of the biggest Bigfoot researchers in the world.
		And inevitably they say that really, even they say the same thing you did.
		If it had wanted me or wants somebody, believe me, it's got them.
		But it really doesn't.
		That these are really friendly creatures.
		These are creatures that mean us no harm.
		Yes, and you know, and I think there's a possibility that they may need that the I think the places where these people where these creatures can exist are dwindling.
		And I think there may be somewhat in their interest for us to know more about them and hopefully to protect some of the areas where they exist.
		Because I think that they need the energetic conditions that produce those ghost lights to exist.
		To exist in order for them to be able to manifest in this space-time.
		The problem that you've got, and anybody else who believes what you believe, would be that before you can get that protection, and you could get it, if we proved beyond all doubt the existence somehow of these creatures by getting a body, getting irrefutable evidence of some kind, then you could get the kind of protection you want.
		Till then, you just try and go in and get anything protected with a story like this, and you'll hear the buzzsaws coming.
		Well, luckily, about 100,000 acres of the big picket has been protected.
		Yeah, but not for that reason, I believe.
		No, not for that reason.
		But luckily, there are some places.
		And they do inhabit the preserve.
		As a matter of fact, I talked to a park ranger at one of the units of the preserve, and there have been reports, particularly among the Native Americans who live right on the edge of the northern part of the Big Thicket Preserve, of the wild man sightings.
		I got an email also today from a gentleman who has a hunting camp in that same area.
		He says that he's had a number of encounters with them.
		Okay, now I'm also, I've got a lot of sources, you know, because of what I do here.
		I'm lucky I have all these sources.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm hearing all these stories about sudden Bigfoot appearances, sudden Bigfoot interaction with human beings.
		I mean, all kinds of interaction between these creatures and human beings.
		And it's really, really, really seriously on the increase in creativity.
		It does seem that way.
		And you figure it's because we're encroaching?
		I think it's, yes, I think it's that.
		And, you know, maybe it's time.
		You know, I've always thought that we're not talking about discovering an animal here.
unidentified		We're talking about making contact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		This is like a different culture.
		Not only a different culture, a completely different worldview.
		But that we as human beings also have latent within us the very powers that these creatures have.
		That may well be, but by thousands of years we have lost touch with how to be.
		We have lost touch with it, yes.
		Maybe even millions of years.
		I don't know.
		Do you have any sense of how old these beings might be?
		No.
		But I do know that the Native Americans, many of them refer to them as the ancient ones.
		That they go back to very ancient times.
		Let me digress a little bit in talking about, you know, I said that the Bragg Road was a straight line.
		Are you familiar with the straight line?
		You know, the ancient, many ancient cultures built these straight tracks.
		Oh, sure.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Celtic culture and the American Indians and so on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, a lot of people thought it was so straight that people thought they were runways.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
		And, you know, if you've ever read, you know, like John Michel and John Keel, a number of people have written about this.
		Ted Holliday wrote a very famous book called The Dragon and the Disc.
		Apparently, one of the functions of these lines was to connect power points and to facilitate the flow of energy on these lines that they called the serpent power and so on.
		There's an interesting thought.
		Well, I think...
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that you're going to have to hold right at that point.
		Where's the bottom of the hour?
		Really, a good point to break, actually, and this is good bumper music to do it.
		It's in the woods.
		It's in the thicket.
unidentified		You put me down for the maybe even many of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		thousands.
unidentified		Cause a night has a thousand eyes and a thousand eyes can't help but see if you are true to me.
		So remember when you tell those little white lies that the night has a thousand eyes.
		You say that you're at home when you phone me.
		And how much I can't help but see if you're Wild thing.
		You make my heart sad.
		You make everything good.
		Wild thing.
		Wild thing think I love you.
		But I wanna know for sure.
		Come on, hold me tight.
		I love you.
		Wild play.
		You make my heart sing.
		Wanna take a ride?
		Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach ART at area code 775-727-1222.
		Or call the Wildcard line at 775-727-1295.
		To talk with ART on the Toll-Free International Line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		Wild thing, I think you move me.
		Sorry, I couldn't resist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if there's any stories about these things getting interested in our women.
unidentified		You move me.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, it's Back Into the Thicket with Rob Riggs, who's written a book, by the way, and you're definitely going to want to see his website.
		We've got a link up.
		And I understand the traffic has lessened a little now, and you've got a chance of getting in, so you might give it another try.
		Just go to tonight's guest info, and you will see his website listed.
		I hope I don't kadash it again.
		I don't mean to do that.
		It's just that when something this fascinating comes along, what are you going to do?
		You've got to show everybody.
		I mean, the website is absolutely awesome.
		So go to artbill.com, go to program, tonight's guest info, and you're going to want to go down and click on the second.
		Actually, the book, his book is the first link, which will take you to the book, In the Big Thicket on the Trail of the Wild Man.
		And then below it, the website.
		Click on the website, and let's see if I can get in.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then when you do get in, don't click on the intro at the top.
		Go to the bottom of the page.
		Click there on intro.
		And oh my, you are on your way.
		And you will see exactly what he's talking about.
		We were talking about straight lines.
		That's the first thing you're going to see is this incredibly straight, eerie, strange, very strange road.
		And then you're going to be taken on a little trip from there.
		And then, of course, you can scroll down the page and see the formation of this fog that then becomes one of these lights or plasma balls or whatever the hell they are.
		All right.
		We're back on the air again.
		Okay.
		So lines, straight lines.
		Well, Art, I want to say this first.
		People have seen the wild man step out of that fog.
		They have.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this is consistent with observations of the in England.
		There are many places in England, not many, but some of the traditional ghost light sightings areas will have what they call the luminous fog and people will see anthropomorphic forms, human-like forms, shadows within those lights.
		Oh, brother.
		Yeah, this is seriously weird stuff.
		Well, listen, let me tell you a little story.
		Are you a listener to the show?
		I am when I'm up at late.
		There's a fella over the hill from me in Las Vegas who's a friend of mine.
		And he's a billionaire.
		He's big-time rich.
		His name is Bob Bigelow, and he runs NIDS, which is really a very serious scientific investigatory group that's funded with his money.
		And oh, they do some incredible, incredible work.
		And he has this farm where they set up some infrared observation through night vision.
		And a couple or several of his top scientists observed a light forming, a kind of a fog, same thing you're talking about.
		And they saw a creature come out of it.
		Literally come out of it.
		And my God, it sounds like what you're talking about.
		Now, these straight lines, we were talking about how in ancient cultures they would actually build these lines to connect these power points and they would conduct the serpent power energy and the dragon power.
		They had different names for it.
		And many of these cultures, their whole technology was, and their whole culture was centered around a technology that utilized this energy.
		I think what happened in the case of the Bragg Road is that inadvertently a straight line connected some major PowerPoints in East Texas.
		Now, there are some really strange effects other than the light itself that occur there.
		One of these is sometimes you can go there and the energy can be such that there is this feeling, like say like you're sitting in your car and I've had this happen to me and all of a sudden you feel like you're moving backwards.
		Yeah, sure.
		I felt that.
		Sure.
		You felt that?
		Sure.
		I had a witness tell me that the typical kid, a lot of kids go out there to look for these lights.
		It is a tradition in Southeast Texas.
		And they had that experience, and the wild man showed up right after that.
		A lady emailed me today, and she was a displaced Southeast Texan living up there in the Northwest.
		And she said she went out with a group.
		They saw the light in the distance, and it kept approaching them, and they got the sense that it was moving at an incredible speed toward them.
		And she said that suddenly we felt like we were moving 100 miles an hour backwards.
		And the light actually came up to them and went through their car.
		I wouldn't go out there.
		I wouldn't do that.
		And I've had witnesses tell me that the light would go through their car.
		And I've had witnesses tell me that there was a shadow of a human silhouette within the light as it approached them.
		Shadow-like.
		Yeah.
		Now you go over to Louisiana and they will tell you that there are wizards that can transform themselves into a ball of light.
		They call it the Fifolet.
		You go over to Mississippi and the Choctaw Indians will tell you the same thing.
		That there are wizards who move around in balls of light and can, you know, this is the old shapeshifter.
		It's interesting to take the mythology and put it together with the real world reports.
		And there's probably something there.
		No, I'll tell you something else interesting.
		There's another place where the wild man is not only seen on the Brack Road in the Big Thicket.
		It's actually seen in a large area.
		There's an old bridge in the preserve, the National Preserve.
		And I interviewed some kids from Saratoga, Texas, a little small town surrounded by the preserve, who told me that they had seen what they called an ape-looking critter a number of times near this bridge.
		I went there to take some photographs as an illustration for a possible hardcover edition of my book, just to illustrate the story in the book.
		I went there, it was about dusk, Art, and I took five or six shots of the bridge from different angles.
		When I developed the film, there were, in two frames, there was a light of a very distinct shape from two different distances, from two different perspectives, as if the thing had moved.
		Do you have those on your website?
		I don't have them on my website.
		They have never been published, but I will put them on there.
		Would you?
		Yes.
		All right.
		And they have never been published before.
		And you caught that.
	See, that is interesting.
	You caught the same light from two different perspectives.
	Two different perspectives.
	Yeah.
	One close up, one far away.
	And you can see it's the same thing, the same shape, and you can see that it has moved.
	Now, another interesting thing, have you heard about these orbs?
	Oh, I've heard so much about these orbs that we've had to take an entire portion of our website and devote it to nothing but orb photographs.
	The orbs show up on Bragg Road, and they show up in areas where there are Bigfoot sightings.
	What is your best guess about what these orbs are?
	Well, you know, we were talking earlier about the different dimensions.
	Yes, sir.
	I favor the theory of what are called Riemann surfaces.
	That, you know, ordinarily when you're talking about a dimension, you're talking about, you know, this is three dimensions.
	This world is three dimensions.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then you have a fourth dimension would be, you know, another perpendicular.
		Well, the idea of the Riemann surfaces is that you have three-dimensional universes that are parallel, as it were, but that have what they call multiple connectivity.
		And that is that these parallel three-dimensional universes can actually have places where they connect portals, points of power, and connection.
		The exact thing that we've been talking about that Mr. Bigelow documented in the ranch.
		At the ranch on West Argus.
		I think it's possible, Art, that the ghostlight, the standing ghost light locations may be the places where these dimensions intersect and that these creatures are able to move back and forth from one uh three-dimensional Riemann surface to another when the energy
		that manifests these lights is activated.
		And, of course, you know, the Southeast Texas, the energies that manifest these ghost lights sometimes reach incredible intensities.
		Well, earlier we attributed some intelligence or consciousness to these energies, right?
		Well, yeah, at least to the lights and to the creatures, yes.
		So do you think we're talking about the energy itself actually being an intelligence, or do you think that there is some separate intelligence organizing this occurrence or creating this portal that we're talking about?
		Well, that's interesting.
		Jacques Berger wrote a book.
		Now, he was the co-author of Morning of the Magicians, which is a classic paranormal investigative book that came out in the 70s.
		He wrote a book called Secret Portals, Secret Doors of the Earth, in which he discussed these rayman surfaces and so on.
		And his idea was that the doors, doorways could be made from one, and I hesitate to use the word dimension because they're both three-dimensional.
		You follow me?
		To us, though, perceptually, dimension probably is an all right word.
		Okay.
		That he felt that there was a psychic component involved in bridging from one dimension to another.
		Gotcha.
		And so what might be happening in the case of these creatures is that they are able to supply that psychic component because their worldview, you see, they haven't atrophied.
		Those powers have not atrophied.
		Those psychic powers have not atrophied in them.
		In fact, they're probably fully developed.
		that they're able to supply that psychic component and literally create doors or passageways between these rayman surfaces.
		Have you experimented at all with night vision?
		No, but I, you know Linda Moulton Howe, of course.
		Of course.
		Well, she and I have become friends, and we are going to be doing some research, field research, this spring, using some rather advanced technology that has recently developed in some of these locations.
		And we'd be happy to report back to you, you know, if we come up with something.
		Well, that's interesting.
		In other words, when I said that, you said that, so that suggests to me that something either that technology or technology related to it is what you're going to use in your investigation.
		Is that fair?
		Sir?
		Is that fair?
		Yes.
		Well, I've got a feeling it's going to succeed, because I think that long before whatever it is that we're talking about here is manifested to the human eye, and I mean long before and long after, there will be things visible in the infrared that are not visible to our naked eye.
		Yeah, we picked it up with a regular 35-millimeter camera.
		Right, but that was at a pretty high point of the manifestation.
		Correct.
		So, in other words, you might catch it earlier.
		Right.
		Yeah, we're really excited about it.
		I had no idea you were involved with Linda.
		Yes.
		She's a very serious researcher.
		She was just in the Far East.
		Has she told you the story of her trip?
		Well, I know that she went over to Laos to study the wild men.
		That's correct.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I told her, I said, we've got them right here.
unidentified		We've got them in Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think it would be a very profitable area of investigation for her.
		Now, think about this, Art.
		If these ghost light locations are these points of multiple connectivity, they could also be like wormholes, so to speak, from one place in this world to another place.
		Well, that's what they would be.
		They would be, in essence, some sort of wormhole.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, and it might be that it might even be stretching it or maybe it isn't stretching it.
		If creatures can come from one side to this side, then why not have the opposite be true?
		Right.
		Why not?
unidentified		Here's a pretty interesting question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, why not?
		If you were in the area of the formation, the kind of formation you've got a photograph of, and you had the opportunity...
		To jump through it?
		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Would you do it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I asked first.
unidentified		Well, that's a good question.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
		Yes.
		I guess I'd have to...
		I'd just have to let that situation arise.
		Is it something that you've discussed with Linda?
		no and you know here here's the thing from my experience on brag road uh you know there's a tradition down there where people will take their families out there and it's like a it's like a picnic you know oh let's go look for the light right well when my kids were little they used to want want me to take Them out there, and I said, there's no way I'm going to take you out there.
		There's things that happen out there that we do not understand.
		Well, I've had a number of guests on my show, Rob, that have been involved in some pretty strange things with electromagnetics and the rest of it.
		And some of them, Rob, have disappeared.
		And I mean, disappeared.
		They're not around anymore now.
		They're just flat gone.
		I mean, yeah, you've got to imagine that's at least part of the risk of doing something like that, the probability that you might get there and you might not get back.
		Yeah, I think you're right.
		I think that is a possibility.
		And, you know, people ask me, well, why do you want to know about these things?
		Why do you want to study this?
		And how do you answer that?
		Well, I think that the world is out of balance.
		And if you'll go back and study the traditional cultures that understood these energies and these connections with other worlds and so on, you'll find that they had this concept of balance,
		of the need of maintaining balance, and of the human beings as conscious entities participating in making that balance happen.
		And if you'll talk to the Hopi Indians, they understand this concept.
		And what they say is the world that we live in now, the modern Western scientific materialistic culture, is out of balance.
		And the reason it's out of balance is we cut ourselves off from our intuitive side.
		And what's happened as a result of that is that we have lost contact with the spirit world.
		That's exactly what they told me.
		Hold on.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		That's exactly what they told me.
		For hours, I interviewed OP Elders on this program.
		That's what it came down to, if you heard it.
		I am a night creature.
		But I do live in a structure.
unidentified		When it's fun, I run up to see my baby.
unidentified		So we can get through and wham my song goes down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		We'll be right back.
		Riders of the storm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Riders of the storm.
		Into this house we're born.
		Into this world we're thrown.
		Like a dog without a phone.
unidentified		And anchor out of both.
		Riders of the storm.
		There's a killer on the road.
		His brain is querping like a toad.
		Take a long holiday.
		Let your children play.
		If you give this brain a rise, and all he will die.
		Killer on the road.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nigh.
		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Rob Riggs, and we're talking about all kinds of really, really, really kidding things.
		Bigfoot, Wild Man, Plasma Balls, Balls of Light, and perhaps something that coexists with us, or perhaps something that coexists in an adjacent dimension with us.
		anyway absolutely fascinating stuff and we'll get right back to it Well, I see my thunder was a bit premature, but that's all right.
		We'll take care of that.
		Back now to our guest, Rob Riggs.
		Rob, welcome back.
unidentified		Thanks, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got a lot of people that would like to chat with you.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I suppose they have questions or comments for you, but you've opened up about 10,000 miles of intriguing territory to talk about here.
		So obviously they've got questions.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Rob Riggs.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Good evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am calling from Austin, Texas.
unidentified		I'm at 1,200 out of San Antonio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, here's an interesting situation.
		You're both in the Austin area, which means that this signal is going about several hundred thousand miles for the two of you to be talking to each other right next to each other.
		Right here.
		So you go right ahead.
unidentified		well actually i'm in san marcus which is right down the road but i was just Well, there you go.
		There you go.
		I am actually from the Beaumont area.
		I grew up there and graduated high school there in the early 90s.
		And I've spent, or I've actually taken several trips up to, we called it the Saratoga Light, Brad Road, many different things.
		But I've been up there many times with different People, you know, it was kind of a teenage thing, like you said earlier, it was kind of a thing to do.
		And I've seen it, and it's really a different experience.
		I don't really, the best way to describe it would be, I guess, kind of spooky.
		But definitely fog and the light coming at you and moving, seems like you're moving away from it.
		And then all of a sudden, I've never actually had it go through the vehicle I was in, but it would reappear behind us once we got a certain point down the road.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you've seen all of this yourself?
unidentified		I have seen this myself.
		Yes, I have.
		More than once.
		I think twice.
		The one time I went out there, we did not see anything, but you never know.
		I guess it was just one of those things.
		But I have seen it twice out in Saratoga on the Bragg Road.
		It's kind of a, like you were saying earlier, it's kind of a thing that you do when you're in high school and you're young and you want to go out and drink and party and have a good time.
		It's like a rite of passage in Southeast Texas, R. Exactly, exactly.
		I mean, there's a lot of rites of passage, I guess, in Southeast Texas as far as the big ticket goes.
		I went on a lot of camping trips out there and saw a lot of weird things then, too.
		Camp Erland is a Boy Scout camp up in there, and they had a lot of strange lights around Camp Erland when I was a kid going to the scout camp up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know that a lot of horror movies begin on a road like that late at night, and usually there's some loving going on, and then all that's left after it is just pieces and gore.
unidentified		Well, that might be true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I don't mean Al Gore.
unidentified		Well, it was definitely a unique experience, you know, being out there with a group of people like that.
		It was kind of hard for everybody not to say, wow, you know, get a load of that.
		That's different.
		I don't know where that came from.
		And seeing a light, this was at night, seeing a light way down the road, just in the middle of the road and just coming at you is, and then going away and then reappearing behind you.
		And there was lots of stories.
		People would say it was swamp gas or that it was this or that.
		I really never knew what it was.
		I knew it was different and that everybody kind of felt a little different when we were there.
		It was kind of an edge, I guess.
		Everybody was kind of on edge.
		And I don't know what it was.
		And I really couldn't explain to you what it was, but it was definitely a unique experience.
		And I've hunted those woods also.
		I know you're talking about the wild man creature and everything.
		I've hunted in those woods, too, and I've heard some things sitting in a deer blind out in the big thicket area and heard things in the mornings, early, early mornings, and late at the evenings right about darker.
		It's weird sounds is all I could say.
		I wouldn't know what it was.
		Yeah.
		I mean, I would not know what it was and wouldn't have any explanation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I'll tell you something.
		If I didn't know who was on what line, I'm not sure I'd be able to tell the two of you apart.
		You sound dungeon.
unidentified		It's our East Texas accent, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, but it's the deer blind talk and all the rest of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		So it's a Texas thing, I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it's like I was telling you, Professor Otsuki said that in his experience, more people in Texas had seen these lights than anywhere he knew of.
		Apparently.
		Yeah.
		I wonder why.
		Well, we haven't got into this, but...
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And where do they run from Texas?
		Can you tell me?
		Well, one of the interesting things about this that I get into in the book is what, you know, you've heard of the planetary grid theories, I'm sure.
		Of course.
		Yeah.
		I think that the ghost light, standing ghost light locations may also be indicators of vertices of the grid.
		And there does seem to be some geometrical alignments of certain of the ghost light areas on 30th degree north latitude, which runs all the way across Texas, all the way from far west Texas, all the way through to the Big Thicket.
		And interestingly enough, we were talking about the Morpholites earlier.
		Yes.
		The Morpholites and the Braglight occur on exactly the same latitude, 800 miles apart.
		Well, that would seem to bolster that idea, wouldn't it?
		And if you follow that latitude east, there's a ghost light that occurs in Gonzalez, Louisiana, on that same latitude.
		And a fellow emailed me some time ago and said that there had been one in Mobile, Alabama, near Mobile, Alabama, but it had disappeared when the area was developed.
		There are going to be a number of people who would like to email you, and if you have the guts, you can give out your email address.
		Do you wish that?
		Okay, my email address is CRRigs.
		And C-R-R-I-G-G-S at A-U-S-T-I-N-TX, AustinTex.net.
		Wait a minute.
		And I've had over 50 emails since you posted the promo on your website even before coming on the air.
		Oh, yeah, okay.
		C-R-Riggs.
		R-I-G-G-S at Austin T-X.
		T-X-S-O-Tex.net.
		Yeah, A-U-S-T-I-N-T-X.net.
		Well, you'll get plenty of email, all right.
		Okay.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Rob Riggs.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi, Art.
		Hi, Rob.
		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
		Okay.
		I was stationed out of Fort Bragg, North Carolina, about eight years ago.
		And I came across something that I have not told anyone about.
		And to tell you the truth, it's scared of the living daylight.
		Daylight, daylight, daylight, daylight, day, daylight.
		I was out on the far east side of the base about 2-3 o'clock in the morning just running around, killing time.
		I lived in the area.
		And came across a coonhound that I found out later had rabies.
		And this animal turned and apparently thought I had it cornered.
		And something came out of the tree.
		Tore it clean in two.
		I just looked the thing square in the face.
		I can't tell you what it looked like.
		The one thing I do remember were those eyes.
		And when you played that recording about half an hour ago, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		It made the hair on the back of my neck and my beard stand straight out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even your beard.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now I'd like a photo of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The thing stood upright like a man?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And was in the trees.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Came down out of the tree.
unidentified		It came out of a tree that was behind me.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And tore that thing in half?
unidentified		Damn near.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Bigfoot are known to hate dogs, Art.
		Oh.
		Yeah.
		They're known to hate dogs.
		I think dogs are able to detect them.
		But to be able to physically manifest, that almost feels like a different kind of stage.
		But I guess not really.
		We found fur.
		They found droppings.
		They found footprints.
		That's physical manifestation.
		So I guess why not, huh?
		I hear a lot of stories about him killing dogs.
		Really?
		Yeah.
unidentified		Come on in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of dog lovers aren't going to want to hear that, but they don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, anything else, sir?
unidentified		Well, the thing that really disturbed me about it, I've only talked about this to about two, three other people since this happened.
		My roommate at the time, he and I went out to the same area because it was only about two miles from where we lived.
		And we followed the tracks from where I was when it happened about 300, 400 yards back in the woodline, and they stopped.
		That was it.
		There's no more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you look in the trees?
unidentified		We checked everything.
		There were no claw marks.
		There were no broken twigs on any of the trees nearby.
		Nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's typical also.
		There's your dimension shift, see?
		It just flat physically disappeared.
		Right.
		Thank you for that story.
		That would be amazing.
		How do we proceed, in your opinion, scientifically, to investigate?
		Well, and here's what I think, Art.
		This is so fascinating, but how do you proceed?
		Well, for one thing, we have to take an interdisciplinary approach to this.
		And I think one of the reasons there hasn't been a lot of progress made in researching this stuff is that we're too specialized and too compartmentalized in our branches of knowledge.
		And I think that in order to investigate these phenomena thoroughly, we're going to have to call on physicists like Otsuki, wildlife biologists who are willing to look at the possibilities of these things existing.
		I know one in Russia and one in Canada.
		We may need geologists, cultural anthropologists, psychologists, and I think we probably need some American Indian shamans.
		Well, that would be quite a group to put together.
		Yes, and I would like to see that happen.
		You know, I'm not sure you can investigate by committee, but the fact of the matter is, I think that we're so out of touch with this, you know, the reality that these things pertain to in this culture that that's why it seems so fantastic and otherworldly to us.
		So that would be our only hope in terms of investigation.
		The shaman, for example, somebody who is at least far enough into that world to sort of take the first step in for everybody.
		I think so.
		And, you know, what this shows is that these other worlds can have physical contact with this world.
		This is not just dreaming or imagining or visualizing.
		This is real physical stuff.
		Well, you've got to wonder with the number of people that disappear every year.
		Certainly there's plenty of this world explanation for why people disappear, but then there's no doubt plenty that cannot be explained in that way.
		And who is to say that some have not crossed from here to another world?
		And the only ones we hear from are the ones that got away.
		Yeah, that's right.
		Not the ones that got there.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rob Riggs.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, my name's Travis.
unidentified		I'm calling from Conroe, Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		And, well, I actually grew up in the Sour Lake area.
		And I spent most of my young life hunting out on a piece of property that butts up against the big thicket.
		And we'll hunt in the woods and in addition to that, up and down pipelines.
		And I've been sitting in a deer blind, looking down a pipeline and seen a man cross the road.
		And we're talking about a distance of two or three miles.
		And it's not uncommon to see something like that because it's a big common lease.
		Lots of people hunt on it.
		But there weren't that many people up at the lease that day.
		I came back to camp, asked who was down there because we all have to sign in before we go out and hunt.
		And nobody was down in that area.
		In addition to that, just lots of strange noises early, early in the morning and late at night.
		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you describe those noises?
unidentified		It would sound a lot like the howling Art was playing earlier.
		It was real faint, though.
		I mean, I couldn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like in the distance?
unidentified		In the distance.
		Have you heard any reports, any sightings like that anywhere near Sour Lake?
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's where I was when I heard the thing howling was near Sour Lake.
unidentified		Oh, man.
unidentified		This is the first I've heard of it, and I'm just real surprised to hear about my part of the world being on the radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is, sir, and your part of the world is responding big time.
		Here's a very interesting Fast Blast on computer.
		It's Wade in Huntsville, Texas, wherever that is.
		He says, I've got two dogs, and they just totally went into fright when you played that Bigfoot sound.
		I live in the East Texas woods.
		So it's East Texas, I guess.
		Yes, that's near Conroe.
		And his dogs didn't like that sound at all.
		But that would figure, wouldn't it?
		In other words, a dog would instinctually know that whatever that is, it doesn't like them.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rob Briggs.
		Hi.
		Hello?
		Oh, I didn't push.
		That's a sticky button.
		West of the Rockies, now you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Rob.
unidentified		It's a pleasure to talk to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I have a question for you and a comment also.
		All right.
		On the question is, do you think they can communicate with us in normal English?
		Hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, that is a particularly interesting question because there are some Bigfoot researchers, I've had them on the program, that have played tapes that sound just like human voice.
		Sort of.
		Close.
unidentified		Hmm.
unidentified		That's really interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do I think they can communicate with us in English?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have no idea.
unidentified		You haven't heard any reports of it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, I'm from Texas, and I would hope they would also speak Spanish.
unidentified		Well, I lived most of my life in Montana.
		I have a good friend.
		He's basically a mountain man.
		He's been in the woods for nearly 40 years.
		And last spring, him and another guy found tracks deep in the woods in the Bull River area.
		And he said, and he was really, I mean, he knows every animal in the woods.
		And he said the tracks just ended and just disappeared.
		There's no way unless that thing just flew.
		I mean, this guy's very, I mean, if he walked through the woods, he could tell if he were there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear those stories over and over again.
unidentified		Well, a guide spent three months.
unidentified		He's seen it several times, and he spent three months back in this area trying to find it, and he never could.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, you're talking about communicating.
		I don't know if they speak our language, but I do think they may have kind of telepathic powers.
		Yeah.
		And actually, if you were receiving a telepathic message, it might be very difficult to tell the difference between that and speech.
		Yeah, yeah, that's true.
		I was being facetious, but I think you're right.
		Yeah.
		All right.
		Thank you very much, Caller, and take care.
		First time, caller, you're on the air with Rob Briggs, close to the bottom of the hour.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, gentlemen.
		Hi, hi.
		I'm from Madison, Wisconsin, and we had heard of a ghost light, I guess is what you'd call it, when I was growing up in Upper Michigan.
		And a couple of years ago, I had the chance to go up with some friends.
		I wanted them to show it to me, and we went and saw it.
		And the interesting thing about it is, just based on what you've been talking about, is this light appears over an abandoned railroad bed.
		And, you know, railroad beds, of course, are long and straight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And I haven't heard of any other sightings of creatures or anything like that, but this light has been known to move.
unidentified		And when I thought it seemed pretty stationary, but it was changing colors and stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the fact that it occurred on something straight, like a railroad track, that's absolutely fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, see, there's your ley line, your inadvertent ley line again, see?
unidentified		That's fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bet it was during the summer, too.
		All right, hold on.
		We're at the bottom of the hour once again, Rob.
		Rob Riggs, whose book is In the Big Thicket, on the Trail of the Wild Man.
		If you get on the trail of my website, you can get over there and get that book.
		Fascinating subject, fascinating man.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast A.M. I can see the
		If I find you been creeping round my back still Somehow you better take care If I find you been creeping round my back still She's been looking like a
		queen, queen, queen, queen Dreaming, she don't always say what she really means Sometimes I think it's a shame When I get feeling better, when I'm feeling no pain To rechart bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is Gordon Lightfoot.
unidentified		I feel like I'm winning when I'm losing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when you...
		And by that, I mean, when he's singing, he's singing about what happened to him.
		He's a pretty wild guy.
		Gordon Lightfoot.
		Anyway, Rob Riggs is my guest.
		We're talking about what's in the thickets.
		And We'll be right back.
		Boy, there really is so much in this world that we just simply don't understand, isn't there?
		And tonight, that's what we're talking about with Rob Riggs.
		Rob, welcome back.
		Thank you, sir.
		Your book is available.
		I take it on Amazon.com and such.
		Yes, it is.
		How long has it been out?
		It came out this spring.
		What kind of reaction have you had?
		Well, you know, Art, the material in this book is so weird that I've tried to connect a lot of different things and it's been kind of hard to pigeonhole it.
		I had a little problem with the book distributors because they wanted to label it a Texana item.
		Isaria what item?
		Texana, you know, just relating to Texas.
		Oh, I see.
		And, you know, I'd like to show some of these book distributors the emails I'm getting from all over North America.
		Well, why don't you?
		Do it.
		Yeah.
		But it is available on Amazon.com, and you could go to any bookstore in the country and order it.
		It is available through the book distributors.
		Or if you want an autographed copy, you can get on my website.
		I've got a, you know, you can order it by credit card over my website, and I'll send you an autographed copy.
		And a secure server, I assume.
		Yes, sir.
		Secure server.
		You don't have like an 800 number, do you?
		No, sir, I don't.
		Everybody has to have an 800 number.
		All right, so then go to your website.
		I'm not as big as you guys.
		All right.
		Here we go.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rob Riggs.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm sorry, again, that stupid button.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air now.
		Hi.
unidentified		Is this Rob?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Hi.
		Yes, sir.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Hi, my name is Boone, and I'm in Klima Falls, Oregon.
		And if anybody's life is as weird as mine, I would like to swap stories with them.
		Well, we were, I came down from Alaska, me and my girlfriend, we went to this little campsite, and I would swear, and I would swear to this, we had a Bigfoot living about 20 feet from us.
		He did not like me at all, but he liked my girlfriend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I knew it.
unidentified		And they definitely have ESP powers.
unidentified		They are definitely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I ask that half in humor when I couldn't resist playing Wild Thing and all the rest of that.
		But does there seem to be any preference with regard to human beings?
		The different sexes?
		Do they react differently to women than to men?
		I don't know, but I haven't been able to get very many women to go out into the big thicket with me, Art.
		It's a good point.
		It's a really good point.
		And so you might not have knowledge in the area.
		Okay, well, yeah, that absolutely makes sense.
		First time caller line, your turn with Rob Riggs.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, this is Larry in Tennessee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, Larry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I'm about two and a half miles west of a place called Wartburg, Tennessee, and about two and a half miles east of the Catoosa Wildlife Game Reserve area.
		And in 99, I was doing a night watching job at a place called Nemo.
		It's about a mile and a half from here.
		And I saw six, at one time, I saw six Bigfoots, I guess you would call them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		They crossed what we call an EPA fence, a silt fence.
		You know, it stops water from flowing off into the river or something.
		And five of them were darker color and one was a lighter color.
		And it really shocked me.
		I was here, you know, about six months, and I saw, more than once, I saw strange things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, six at once.
		Rob, what's the likelihood that that would be a family?
		I hear that these creatures, you know, a lot of people, a lot of the Bigfoot people I've interviewed have said that they're family-oriented, really family-oriented.
		I talked, I was doing a radio show down in Beaumont, Texas, and a lady called from Port Arthur, which is near there, and said when she was a child, I used to go out swimming in the bayou near Fort Arthur.
		And they went out to go swimming one day, and they saw an adult and a child, you know, a smaller whitefoot.
		Right.
		So that is, you know, that happens.
		And as friendly as they've said to have been, I know of a case which I can't fully discuss in the center part of the country.
		I better not say any more than that.
		The south-central part of the country.
		Where somebody harmed a Bigfoot, and they are suffering now every day through get this, having stones thrown at them by what appears to be the relatives of this creature that they injured.
		I can't talk any more about this case, I guess, than that right now, but I'm really serious.
		This is really serious.
		They're being stoned literally, literally, literally, literally, literally, literally, literally.
		You ever hear of anything like that?
		I've heard of stones appearing apparently from nowhere and being thrown at people.
		I've never heard of Bigfoot doing that.
		Of course, there are not any stones down in the big thicket.
		Yeah, that's true.
		There are where I'm talking about, and I wish I could say more, but it's under investigation.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Rob Briggs.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		How are you, Erpa?
unidentified		Excuse me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm calling from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Saskatchewan?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Way up there.
unidentified		good.
		I just got to say one thing, Art.
		I've listened to your show since about 94, and I love your show, man.
		This is the coolest stuff I've heard ever.
		Thank you.
		Actually, what I was wondering is, has anybody, like to this date, actually caught one of these things?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good question.
unidentified		And, you know, there's another thing, too, about that HAARP project up in Alaska.
unidentified		Maybe they could use that to find them, find the caves and stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, HARP is said to affect people psychologically, so you never know about maybe Bigfoot, too.
		The first question is a really good one, though.
		What's the lore regarding that?
		Has anybody ever trapped, caught, or otherwise even temporarily detained one of these beings?
		Well, there are stories, and you don't know whether they're apocryphal or what, because we don't have the bodies in hand, but there are stories dating back to the last century where supposedly that there have been some captured.
		If you can go back and read the literature, John Greene and some of these fellows that kind of pioneered Bigfoot search, and they supposedly traced back some stories, and I think there was one in Tennessee, and again, whether these are apocryphal stories, I don't know.
		Now, somebody asked me, well, has there ever been one, the body of one, found?
		Right.
		Like a roadkill or something.
		Right.
		And there's a website, and you know, anything you see on the internet, to me, is suspect.
		But there are some sites that have photographs of supposed roadkill.
		Some of it looks fairly interesting.
		There's one on a website called CryptoKeeper that was forwarded to me by Lou Farish, who has a UFO organization in Arkansas.
		And there is a body of a roadkill alleged in DeRitter, Louisiana.
		Now, DeRitter, Louisiana is right across the Sabine River from the Big Picket.
		Well, now, you see, the Internet is a two-edged sword.
		While everything is suspect, it's also the venue where things will be seen that otherwise you would never have seen it.
		It would be suppressed, right?
		You never would see it.
		Exactly.
		Now, you know, there is a story that, you know, frequently there are stories that come up about people finding bodies of what are assumed to be chimpanzees or baboons or apes.
		There was a story that came up in the 1950s.
		There was an old Big Thicket guy named Lance Rosier.
		And supposedly somebody took him the body of what they thought was a gorilla that they found alongside the road in Hardin County.
		Right.
		And they just thought it was a gorilla.
		And they just assumed that it escaped from a zoo or something like that.
		And, you know, what is the likelihood that one of them would be run over?
		They're intelligent beings and mainly in very rural areas.
		Well, it's not likely, but it's an outside possibility.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But there is a story that one was taken to him to be identified.
		Do you know what became of it?
		No.
		But the assumption was, now, the story I read didn't even link it to the wild man stories or the Bigfoot stories.
		They just assumed it was a chimpanzee or something.
		Gotcha.
		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Rob Riggs.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Beaumont, Texas.
		All right.
		Mr. Bell, Mr. Riggs, it's a pleasure to meet y'all.
		I've listened to you all the time.
		And I just want to let y'all know that I was at Bragg Road tonight.
		In fact, I actually listened to the broadcast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were at Bragg Road tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did the lights show up?
unidentified		No, there was quite a bit of traffic.
unidentified		Actually, there was about three other vehicles up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I called Don Briscoe down there to tell him.
		So you have an affiliate in Beaumont, Texas, Art.
		Yes, sir.
		And I tried to call Don Briscoe to ask him to tell the listeners to be sure and tune in down there.
		Well, but I'll be damned if I would go down Bragg Road in the middle of the night listening to this program.
		No way.
		Art, we wanted to bat you down.
unidentified		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've been looking to take some road trips, so maybe, maybe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you were actually there tonight, huh, sir?
unidentified		Yes.
		I really didn't.
		When we drove down it, coming off the farm road, we went about six miles down and turned around.
		Now, there was a truck that passed once or twice, but there was no vehicles when it was coming back out.
		And there was, we did see way up ahead a flash of light go across the road real quick.
		But then about, I would say about four or five minutes later, another light came back across the other way.
		Now, I couldn't tell how far ahead of it it was, of us it was, but that's all that I had saw.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that'll do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you were listening to the show last year?
unidentified		I sure was.
unidentified		In fact, I made it a point to go out there tonight because I'd never been to Bragg Road before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you wanted to listen to the show from there?
unidentified		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's great.
		That's great.
		You Texans really are a different breed, aren't you?
		Let me tell you all this story.
		I had a guy call in when I was doing a show down there, and he had heard about the Braglight, and he was dating a girl that lived over in Batson.
		And they would drive right by Bragg Road when they were going to church.
		So one night he said, well, let's go on down there.
		So they go down there.
		They get out on the road.
		And the girl is kind of freaking out.
		And so she's wanting the guy to leave.
		So he says, well, he needed to answer nature's call.
		So he opens the door to do that, to get out.
		and the light shows up And then the light goes off into the woods, and then the wild man shows up, jumps on the back of the car, and starts shaking the car.
		With the girl in it.
		With the girl in it.
		Yeah, and this guy swore up and down that this was a true story.
		I wonder if he ever got another date.
		Not with that girl.
		That's right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on there with Rob Riggs.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, this is George at North Hills.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		I was up in the Bristol Colins about maybe two months ago.
		And I had my dogs with me in my truck, and I was just, it was out, it was probably 11.30 at night.
		My dog started growling, and then I could feel something really big was like breathing down my back.
		Oh, man.
		And then I just, I turned around, I couldn't see nothing.
		You know, and then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, actually breathing down your back?
unidentified		Yes.
		Like he was breathing down my back.
		You know, I mean, this is the Bristol Cones.
		And, you know, the Paiutes have a song for them, for the Bigfoot song.
		They sing in some of their rituals, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		You know?
		I mean, and a couple of other crazy things have happened to me up there, too.
		I've seen some lights that are.
		where is this it is up at uh...
		It's real sort of sacred grounds there, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		You know, it's, you know, the mountains have all these geological forms and stuff on them.
		And the paikes were really, I guess, personally.
		Yes.
		They have a Bigfoot song they sing in when they do the sweat lodges and stuff like that, you know.
		And I think that the, it could be that the Bigfoot is sort of like a spiritual helper, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there are some traditions that claim that they are like familiars to.
unidentified		You know, that they come in to, they call them in, you know, they come in, and that's why you, you know, they're like a spirit.
unidentified		So that's why, you know, where you ever find them, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they live in two worlds.
unidentified		Exactly, you know, they come in and out, you know.
		You know, and it's, yeah, Art, you ought to look up a couple of power medicine men.
		You're right in the thick of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the thick of it.
		All right.
		Your book.
		In the Big Thicket on the Trail of the Wild Man, is it full of anecdotal stories?
		Is it instructional in any way?
		How did you?
		Well, the book is based on about 20 years of research, of my own experience, of field research, going out into the woods, of interviewing of eyewitnesses, of correspondence with leading scientists and investigators from around the world.
		And it has a lot of stories.
		And the stories are mainly from eyewitnesses.
		In some cases, I'll put second or third-hand stories if they corroborate or if they're part of a pattern.
		I don't put a lot of folklore in there.
		Right.
		And all of this is still going on today, if not in greater magnitudes than in prior days, right?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a really, really interesting thing to know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are many of us who believe just we call it the veil.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whatever it is that separates here and there is beginning to lift a little bit or more frequently than it has in the past.
unidentified		I agree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And my interest in all of this is what it implies about paradigm shift.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		You hit it right in the head.
		Listen, guess what?
		Our program is over.
		We've got to go.
		What a pleasure it has been to have you on the air.
		It has been great.
		I've enjoyed the opportunity of talking to you and your listeners.
		Rob, thank you.
unidentified		Thank you so much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.

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