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Jan. 4, 2002 - Art Bell

02:34:17

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Art Bell - Open Lines. Randy Eaton - Orca Whales

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	But not my desert, in the great American Southwest. I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon,
	wherever you may be around the globe in all 24 time zones.
	that this program has heard.
	Great to be here.
	We're going to do mainly open lines all night long tonight.
	However, in this first hour, I do have a late booking because of something that's going on.
	There's this whale that keeps beating himself, wanting to commit suicide.
	His mate did that, and now he's trying to do it himself.
	And so we're going to try and find out what's going on, where it's going on, and why.
	For 20 years, from 1976 through 1996, Dr. Randy Eden studied orca whales, so he'd be the right guy to ask, right?
	He and his research volunteers actually befriended wild orcas.
	His video, Orca the Sacred Whale, and his book, The Orca Project, A Meeting of the Nations, examined the unique behavior of orca whales and their exceptional relationship with human beings across time and space.
	Dr. Eden's communications have appeared everywhere from Science and Evolution to Sports Illustrated and Magical Blend.
	He's been interviewed in Sports Illustrated, Saturday Review, Omni, the L.A.
	Times, Washington Post, and so forth.
	Gave a speech on ecological problems in the U.S.
	that was broadcast by CBS TV National News and PBS Nova.
	Interviewed him about endangered species.
	Dr. Eaton has held faculty positions in zoology, psychology, humanities, the University of Washington, University of Georgia, Florida Atlantic University, and so forth.
	Winner of two National Book Awards, as well as numerous writing and film awards, he would be the right man to ask about what's going on, and we will shortly.
	I would like to welcome a new, yet another new affiliate, KMNS.
	620 on the dial in Sioux City, Iowa.
	Good to be on in Sioux City, Iowa.
	Thank you very much.
	The GM there, Rick Schwartz, and the Ops Director, Rich Zaber.
	Very, very happy to be on the network and getting you in the third show of 2002 as we continue to collect new affiliates.
	Great to be on in Sioux City.
	The nation's middle.
	A lot of times you want to go to places like that to find out, uh, I don't know, to take the temperature of the nation, uh, if you will, and that's a good thing to do here.
	You know, a lot of times the people on one coast or another are thinking one thing, but if you go straight into middle America, uh, you get a pretty good, uh, quick average without, you know, having to talk to everybody from everywhere.
	So, great to have you.
	Sioux City, we will depend on taking your temperature from time to time on various issues, maybe even this one.
	Now, I may or may not open a special line later.
	I have a couple of thoughts of my own.
	But if anybody would like to fast blast their idea for a special line tonight, you're welcome to do that between now and the time we begin having open lines next hour.
	So, That's the story.
	In a moment we're going to find out why a whale is trying, wanting apparently to commit suicide.
	And now, Dr. Randy Eaton.
	Dr. Eaton, welcome to the program.
	Thank you, Larry.
	Good to have you.
	Alright, so I've been hearing about this Uh, this whale, maybe you better begin from the beginning.
	A whale trying to commit suicide, but there's more to it than that.
	There was something about its mate.
	First of all, where is this all going on?
	It's all happening on the northeast side of the Olympic Peninsula, across from Seattle.
	A little tiny town there called Dungeness, near another small town known as Squim.
	It's in a rain shadow from the Olympic Mountains.
	Even though that tends to be a very wet spot, it's pretty dry right there.
	A couple of days ago, a news helicopter flying over Dungeness Bay spotted a female orca whale on a small island in the bay.
	From that point forward, they came to examine her and found a male orca stranded himself So in other words, by the time they got there, there wasn't one, but two?
	That's correct.
	And there were some earlier rumors, no one's confirmed this, that before any of the strandings were actually observed, there was also a baby orca that had accompanied these two adult orcas, but there's been no sightings of a young orca since the actual strandings were seen.
	Why do you call them strandings, by the way?
	To me, it's suicide.
	Well, it's a matter of interpretation, of course, you know.
	The scientists who typically work with cetaceans, the whales and dolphins, have given different ideas on why these creatures go ashore, why they put their bodies out of the water onto the beach.
	And they try to come up with all kinds of explanations, and it may be that none of them are mutually exclusive.
	For example, pilot whales often beach off the certain coast of northeastern North America, and they think that perhaps it has something to do with polarities and the surface of the earth that throw them off on their movements.
	Magnetic lines, navigation, that kind of thing?
	Uh, but the thing is that no one still can explain why it is they would throw themselves up on shore.
	I mean, even if your directions, your bearings are wrong, certainly a whale knows that land does not feed.
	I mean it doesn't account for the fact that air sure ain't water.
	As we know that if we go underwater and don't come back up we drown and die.
	Right.
	And that's just a basic survival sort of thing that even a whale would understand in my opinion.
	There's no doubt about it.
	So I looked for a long time basically for an explanation as to why any whale at any time would actively put itself on the beach because these aren't animals that just sort of get washed up there based on actual observations by many people around the world for decades.
	In most of these cases, the individual literally actively places itself on the beach.
	And this has happened recently in Dutchess Bay with this male that is still alive.
	They've often drug these individuals off the beach when they've stranded themselves, and they swim right back onto the beach.
	Of course, a couple of questions.
	One, when a whale hits the beach surfaces on land, how long can it live?
	Well, it depends on the species.
	The really larger species are going to live less time because the weight of their body is going to smash their internal organs the longer they're out of water.
	So it's a matter of the animal.
	The orcas are fairly well built to withstand being out of water for a fairly long period of time.
	So how long does it take an orca to die, probably?
	Possibly as much as a day.
	Yeah, just from the weight of its own body, eventually killing it.
	Maybe less, but that's a pretty long period compared to, say, a great baleen whale, which probably can't stand being out of water for more than a few hours.
	Still, that's amazing, a day to die.
	Yeah.
	Wow, wow.
	Okay, so when they arrived there, Doctor, was the female already dead?
	Yes, you're right, Art.
	The female was dead.
	Uh, the mail, uh, has continued to try, this is yesterday, continued through yesterday to try to strand itself.
	Uh, and they would drag it off using ropes, and then they start using a slightly different contraption today, with some success.
	The news reports would indicate that the male didn't seem to be able to find his way out
	of this bay where there's a spit.
	I find that very difficult to believe.
	Orcas are excellent navigators of the sea.
	They know where they are, when they are there, and how to get back to a place that they entered,
	and so on and so forth.
	My guess is that this male orca, and certainly other local researchers have come to the same
	conclusion because they understand orca society, surely this male is closely related to that
	female and probably is not its mate, but probably its son.
	The adult male orcas, even the great big ones with the five, six foot tall dorsal fins, are really the sons of the females of the orca pod.
	And they spend their whole lives helping their mothers raise other young.
	So my guess is this is its son, although that can't be confirmed yet, but it's probable based on their behavior.
	Now, the thing is, it's not very common for orcas to strand.
	That's the kind of peculiar thing here.
	It's fairly common for pilot whales, it's fairly common for sperm whales, and many others.
	And we can associate strandings with things like old parasitic infections of the brain or the internal ear.
	Was there anything physically askew with the female that died?
	Nobody knows yet.
	They've cut off the head of the female and they've taken it for necropsy, but I don't think any results are in at this time.
	There's a chance, based upon a lot of observations and analyses over the last several years, That this female died from some kind of pollution.
	We don't know that for sure, but PCBs have been a very serious killer of orca whales recently in that region.
	They outlawed them in 1972, but these industrial lubricants are still in the system.
	They're working their way through the food chain.
	They're called polychlorinated biphenyls.
	And they mimic, biochemically, they mimic the orca's own body's hormones.
	And as a consequence, it screws up their whole endocrine system.
	And the real culprit, though, at least locally now, here's the thing.
	These are transient orcas.
	They are not the local resident orcas that live in Puget Sound.
	These are two individuals that do not belong to those three well-known social groups of Puget Sound, who recently have been afflicted with PCBs.
	In combination with the shortage of food supply over the last two years, I think eleven adult males of these three societies, three orca societies, that live year-round in that area, have died as a consequence.
	What's going on with their food supply?
	That's something I'm quite interested in.
	It's distorted to salmon.
	A combination of factors, overfishing for many years for the commercial industry,
	deforestation causing fouling of the waters in which the orcas, I mean in which the salmon spawn.
	A whole range of factors have contributed to the fact that during certain months
	or certain phases of the year, certain times of the year, there aren't salmon runs.
	There used to be salmon running virtually all year long.
	Now, some of those salmon runs have dropped out for all practical purposes to zero.
	That leaves the orcas without food, at least their primary and their preferred food supply.
	That then means that the adult males who are babysitters for their mothers, helping their mothers raise young, I think have been foregoing feeding themselves and letting the youngsters feed instead.
	As a consequence, they cannibalize their own fat tissues to feed themselves and that means that the PCBs have been activated because they've been stored in the body fat.
	And then they enter the system and those orcas die.
	That's why the adult male orcas of these societies are dying as compared to the rest of the members of the population.
	But the two orcas that we're talking about tonight are not members of those local societies.
	They are the transient orcas that feed primarily on marine mammals.
	And they range all the way from Southeast Alaska down to Baja California.
	The thing is that feeding on marine mammals, as they do, or tend to, they also eat fish, they're picking up more pollutants than the resident orcas at Puget Sound, which tend never to eat marine mammals, but rely primarily on fish.
	So when you eat marine mammals, of course, the accumulation of things like mercury and PCBs are exaggerated because the marine mammals that the orcas are feeding on have been feeding on fish that have those pollutants in their bodies and so it's magnified and it works into the transient orcas' bodies and they suffer for it.
	So we don't know why they died yet, but there's a real high probability that it's some kind of pollution in the marine system.
	How big is an orca?
	Well, the female up there was estimated at three to four tons.
	The male that they've been pulling off and trying to get out into the sand, apparently now they've had some success in getting him reoriented.
	But at first he just kept, what, re-beaching himself?
	Yep, he just kept re-beaching himself and the thing is that You know, over the years, people have done their best, and they have the highest of intentions, certainly, believing that these creatures don't know what they're doing.
	They haul them off.
	They'll pull them off, even using big ships.
	They'll take sperm whales and pull them off beaches in places like New Zealand or wherever, even in India.
	And the whales will go back on the beach.
	And in some cases, it's pathetic, but in a way also comical, that one sperm whale in India was pulled off the same beach five times.
	And he finally moved further up the coast and then beat himself there and died.
	And so we don't know if this male orca that they now have back out in the deep water will simply go someplace else.
	In other words, it gets tired of being hauled back and it realizes what's happening and goes somewhere else.
	Well, that could be what's happening here.
	I can't say for sure.
	I hope I'm wrong.
	But either this animal is also diseased or polluted.
	You see, what we're getting at here is that we have to come up with an explanation for why any whale ever puts itself out of the water.
	Well, remember, human beings from time to time, Doctor, wander off the land, into the sea, walk out into the surf, and drown.
	Yeah, that's right.
	They do.
	And you see, I wrote a theory on the evolution of burial practices in humans, and I turned it around and applied it to strandings in whales.
	And my theory is that the same basic reasons for a whale putting itself out of the sea onto land applies.
	And that is that you prevent the communication of disease, including parasites, to your survivors and to your kin by getting your body out of the water, if that's what's afflicting you.
	And the second thing is that you don't want your body to be free food for those creatures
	out there in your world that might turn around after feeding on your dead body and decide
	to try to eat some of the living, some of your survivors.
	In the same way that we put people six feet underground so that bears can't easily dig
	them up and then because after eating a dead human they're more likely to eat a live one.
	The same could apply say for whales and sharks in the sea.
	If you let a hundred different sharks feed upon your 40 ton body, if you're a great whale,
	those sharks are far more likely to attack a small member of your species.
	So I think the same reasons apply and that is that it makes perfect sense to me that if in fact an orca or another whale is dying or seriously ill or has a communicable disease it's perfectly sensible that it might remove its body from the ocean so I think that in this case either the male is also diseased and or polluted seriously and it's trying to strand itself to die or and I can't tell you that though you know it implies some kind of
	Seemingly something like a decision-making process or is such a thing just simply instinctual?
	Oh, I don't think it's instinctual at all.
	I think it's an individual decision.
	I think it's a very intelligent decision and in the same way that humans under similar circumstances would come to a similar kind of decision.
	If you knew, for example, that you had a highly dangerous communicable disease, you would be likely to behave similarly.
	And someone couldn't turn around afterwards and say, well, he really didn't know what he was doing, and so on.
	I don't think that applies to these creatures.
	All the evidence indicates that those that strand themselves, in fact, have good reasons to do so.
	As far as their ability to come to make decisions, my gosh, everything we know about the members of the dolphin family, of which the orca is one, indicate that they're highly intelligent creatures.
	They have all the problem-solving abilities that we humans do.
	I have no doubt that they have all the mental capacities in the world to come to that kind of decision for very good reason.
	All right.
	Hold it right there.
	We'll be right back.
	Dr. Randall Eaton is my guest.
	Do you think they have that kind of decision-making capability, or do you think it's an instinctual thing they do?
	And if it is, is it an instinct that when we have... I mean, when we have it, we say, oh, it's wrong.
	You know, life is precious.
	You can't just take your own life like that.
	You know, the climate change that we're going through right now, and you'll notice I say climate change we're going through as opposed to what we might be doing, and I think we're well into it, This hour's Associated Press says the brush fires are raging now in Australia.
	It's horrible.
	You have no idea.
	It's horrible.
	They've killed or injured thousands of koalas.
	Further stressing the national icon's fragile population, wildlife experts were saying Friday that koala populations already are threatened by human development.
	Many of those populations will be simply eliminated.
	Drastically by the fires burning across New South Wales.
	The weather across the world is really weird.
	It might even have something to do with all of this.
	I have no idea.
	Doctor?
	Well, I happen to read your book on Superstorm, Mark.
	Yes, sir.
	And I'm a believer that we're looking at another example of the human folly of the great love affair with technology.
	I believe that if I were to write an important book in the next year, it would be about going back to the Stone Age.
	A lot of people say, well, we can't go back, meaning that we've bought this whole mega-tech philosophy that the only way we're going to continue to solve the problems that technology virtually creates for us is more technology.
	Yeah, we're not going back.
	I mean, I agree with that.
	We're not.
	Well, maybe.
	My guess is that we're on a dead-end course as far as technology goes.
	I think it's going to lead us, frankly, right down to To our knees, and I don't think that we'll find technological solutions for the kinds of problems, the global problems we're looking at now, which include what you just mentioned in Australia.
	I also, a year ago or more, I interviewed some people in Hawaii, and at that time, the Navy was blasting this incredibly loud sonar At the whales there or into the water in the presence or nearby the whales and I had all kinds of people Greenpeace and others Who were actually out there trying to put a stop to all of this and the Navy was saying that it wasn't bothering the whales one bit Now I understand that in the last week or two the Navy suddenly Admitted actually admitted that what they were doing
	might indeed have injured or killed whales. Is that correct?
	Well, the whale researchers, and we're not talking just about bleeding hearts here
	that might belong to Greenpeace or whatever, that don't really know any better.
	The actual whale researchers who've been on site where they've done these tests
	have reported direct damage, even death, and incredible...
	I don't think they can hold that position much longer.
	There's just too much evidence to the contrary.
	Well, that's good in a way.
	I know they were.
	They were.
	Wasn't there some recent news of an admission?
	I haven't seen that, but if it is, I'm glad.
	Yeah, the Navy has in fact admitted it.
	I think it's undeniable.
	I don't think they can hold that position much longer.
	There's just too much evidence to the contrary.
	Well, that's good in a way.
	I hope that contributes to getting that program shut down.
	You ask these questions about suicide, and I thought I should throw in a couple things.
	In our previous talks, I mentioned to you that in Puget Sound, for a number of years, they captured all the orcas for the World's Aquariums from the mid-60s to the mid-70s.
	I happened to run into Jerry Brown, an Athabascan Indian who was the head diver on all those capture efforts during that decade.
	And he showed me the movies which he took of every single capture of orca whales in that ten year period and I had my mind blown when I looked at it because when they finally got the orcas inside of the nets, big seine nets, and sometimes they fail completely in an effort that took several days and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, but when they finally had a few pursed up in the net and they lowered these steel capture cages down in the water, I saw divers jump in the water, swim over to an orca, which is the world's largest living predator, and certainly can kill anything in and around the sea with impunity.
	Here's a 200-pound man, swims over and puts his hand on the pectoral fin of an orca and guides it into the steel capture cage.
	Now at that point, that in itself is absolutely astounding to me.
	Obviously, the orcas going along with this have never been touched by a human, surely, prior to that date, that moment.
	And would go into the capture cage.
	Now, they lifted some of the orcas out.
	This is how they would separate the orcas they wanted to keep, which were primarily youngsters, from the orcas they wanted to release.
	And they would leave the ones inside the net that they wanted to keep and send off to some aquarium.
	Well, some of the orcas, when they got inside that steel capture cage, uh... you know they didn't resist the diver at all
	whatsoever that led him into it right
	uh... would let their hair out
	dropped to the bottom of the cage and be dead within a matter of seconds
	yes and uh... and they would hide the evidence frankly the caster
	team did for This call came out later in the middle 70s when there were protests against any more captures in Puget Sound at Orcas, which was finally ended.
	Now, let me understand, just let their air out, drop to the bottom and die?
	Drop to the bottom, they're dead, bingo.
	And so clearly they were not being forced underwater, clearly they were not punctured, clearly they were not wounded.
	Clearly this was a volitional thing.
	They made the decision, you know, I'm out of here.
	Now some other workers obviously didn't do that.
	Some of those other workers were eventually put into that same steel capture cage and lifted up out of the water.
	Not released, but put onto a boat and then taken to a plane and so forth.
	Do you have any idea, numerically or percentage wise, how many It wasn't a great number.
	It was a matter of perhaps 10 out of something like 100 captures.
	That's quite a few.
	I've never even heard of a of a whale doing that, letting all the air out, eventually just sinking.
	Oh my gosh.
	Yeah, and they dumped the bodies to hide the evidence at the time because they were concerned about public outcry, which eventually did emerge.
	Now the other thing was that you and I talked in September of 98 about the trip of Keiko the whale to Iceland from Oregon.
	Yes.
	And right after that show I got a call from Teresa St.
	John, a woman who used to work with John Lilly, as a whale psychic.
	I didn't take her too seriously at first, even though I had, as I've explained to you in previous shows, psychic communications with orca whales, which really turned my whole life around, from being a hardcore Newtonian-type scientist to somebody who had revised his whole view of reality.
	But anyway, she called up and told me, she said, well I had an experience back with a
	whale named Haida up at the SeaWorld Aquarium, that's our sea land, they call it sea land
	aquarium in Victoria, British Columbia.
	And I said, well tell me about that.
	She said, well I got this message from an orca that it didn't want to be released.
	This was back in the 70's.
	That it did not want to be released.
	And this was the first orca that Tempt was ever made on back in the late 70's.
	And so she said, I called five aquariums.
	The fifth one I called was the Sealand in Victoria.
	And they told me what we're planning to release, uh, Haida.
	He'd been there a number of years, uh, and always done very well.
	Great performer, uh, in every way was a wonderful orca whale.
	Why had they made the decision to release?
	Just out of curiosity.
	No, that's a perfectly good question.
	The owner, and this is, uh, much to his credit, I think, The owner felt that even though that particular orca, Haida, was definitely his bread and butter, the biggest attraction by far at his aquarium, that he felt that he had so much admiration for Haida and for other orcas, he felt it was right to release him.
	He had the right intentions, no doubt.
	The problem was that, according to Teresa St.
	John, he didn't want to go.
	And she told him that.
	And he listened, but he didn't take her seriously.
	The next day, they came in to release him out into the sound, and he was dead in his pool.
	Wow.
	Yeah.
	And so, I had independently, without knowing any of this until 98, had written a story, which was published in my Orca book and previously in another magazine.
	Do we know why?
	Dead?
	I mean, what happened?
	Well, they didn't give any reason for his death and they didn't have any explanation.
	But I had known him.
	I and my students had studied him and worked with him and observed him.
	And in an essay I wrote, I said, well, you know, it's just possible that he committed suicide, even though we as humans don't give animals the credit for having any kind of mental or intellectual capacities that could lead to that kind of decision.
	Um, and so, so that, in a way, you know, I felt that maybe that's what he did do.
	And then, when she had received this message and actually warned the aquarium, and then, in fact, he was found dead the next day, well, you can see the kind of conclusion that I drew.
	Yeah, well, but for that conclusion, you have to imagine that the, the whale is, uh, telepathic.
	Yeah.
	Or, or something.
	Yes, you do.
	And, uh, the thing is that all the peoples around the world who've lived closely with these kind of creatures for millennia, hold them in the highest possible regard for a reason.
	And, you know, the Macaw Whalers of Puget Sound, to this day,
	say that orca whales are one step above God.
	That's the most incredible accolade ever given to a non-human creature,
	or to any being on Earth.
	There's never been another society known that's ever described any creature as being above God.
	Why do you think that they believe that?
	Why?
	I think they believe it because they know the orca extremely well.
	They've been living side by side with them day in and day out for thousands of years.
	The macaw are whalers.
	The orcas that often came into contact with them were whalers, so to speak, catching other whales.
	And then there was, of course, the local types, the resident orcas in Puget Sound, which were catching salmon, which the macaw also caught.
	I think when they were spending so much time with them that over the years they observed them, they realized that there were many situations in which orca whales could have killed them for competing with them for prey.
	There's all kinds of mythology up and down the northwest coast and from society to society it's the same story.
	I wonder really how important whales are.
	Do you remember a Star Trek movie, I think it was, Uh, where there was this horrible machine of destruction on its way to Earth, and the only thing that was going to prevent it was, uh, the sound, uh, a whale sound.
	Yes.
	And, um, it kept looking for this whale sound, minus the whale sound.
	Right.
	This alien race had decided that there was no further reason for Earth to exist, that it had failed.
	Right.
	Well, there's an ancient theory and a very recent theory which really converge.
	interest in the planet at all.
	They say they'll go back in time and get a whale and bring it forward and the whale sound
	and save the earth and all the rest of that.
	It was kind of interesting.
	How important do you think whales are?
	There's an ancient theory and a very recent theory which really converge.
	The ancient Native American point of view is that an agreement was made between the
	Orcas as rulers of the sea, as the dominant creature of all the oceans of the world, and
	the humans on land to steward the earth.
	On the other hand, I have a good friend who received a higher guidance vision, if you will, that the seas of the world must be held silent for a day at least.
	So that the energetic fabric of the earth could be repaired and that the whales would participate in that process using their sounds to do that.
	That there's some kind of acoustic necessity, if you will, for the integrity of the earth itself to be maintained.
	Now, I can't tell you that that's so or not.
	I can tell you this, that I spent a lot of time working with Native Americans.
	They know these creatures far better than we do, or far better than we ever will.
	They've been part and parcel of their lives for millennia, and I listen to what they have to say.
	I take them seriously.
	From their point of view, the orca is spiritually the most evolved creature of the oceans of the world, and they revere them for a reason.
	I'm curious about you now.
	How did you get From a man of straight heart science to where you are now, and where you are now is a million miles away.
	I mean, you believe in communication with whales.
	You've had communication with whales.
	You're in a whole different place spiritually.
	You've undergone a total transformation in what you believe.
	How did that happen to you?
	I was two weeks into my first study on orca whales back in 1976 up on the San Juan Island and I was observing these two orcas carefully that were held in a cove that were going to be released soon with radio transmitters on their fins.
	I was left all alone there finally after all the news people and the sheriff's deputies and the National Marine Fisheries people were coming and going constantly.
	These two workers swam straight around right by me, right next to the rock I was on.
	They rolled onto their sides very slowly, one after the other.
	They looked at me with their eyes above water, right into my eye.
	At a distance of about seven feet, I got this telepathic message.
	It was this, we know what you're doing and it's okay.
	That was all there was to it.
	But I was shocked.
	I fell over backwards.
	How sure are you that what you received really came from these whales?
	really just wasn't some sort of a, I don't know, manufactured something or another in
	your own brain?
	Well, all I can tell you is that I have total conviction about the experience, that I'd
	never taken acid up to that point in my life.
	I'd never even read a John Lilly book and so on and so forth.
	I was pretty straight nosed about my science and I was there simply collecting data.
	But that event turned my life around and it wasn't long after that, actually, that I went to the Victoria Aquarium, where Haida was, because I was just so excited about orca whales at that point.
	I wanted to do everything I could about them.
	And I had a similar kind of experience there, really.
	There was probably a hundred people packed in around his pool.
	He was already starting his performance, if you will.
	The trainer had him partway beached at the end of the pool and was doing everybody his teeth, as they often do in these aquarium shows.
	I squeezed him between a couple people on the opposite side of where he was with his trainer.
	This moment I squeezed in between these two people and I misunderstand that I'm holding an incredible passion, if you will, about orcas at this point after what I've experienced in the San Juan Islands.
	Sure.
	And I was in a state of bliss just to be near an orca whale.
	I didn't say anything, I didn't do anything different than anybody else, but that orca
	broke out of his performance, swam straight across the pool, came up out of the water,
	held himself up out of the water with his fluke and squirted a fine spray of water over
	my face.
	The only person he squirted in the audience.
	Now afterwards the trainer came up to me, then he went back and completed his show.
	And afterwards the trainer came to me and said, why did he do that to you?
	He knew that orca very, very well.
	And we started a wonderful friendship at that point and eventually did a lot of work with
	him and went high to two.
	And I simply told him, I said, you know, I had these experiences with the orca whales.
	Somehow he was sensitive to my awareness of him and he responded accordingly.
	And I've had those kinds of experiences with other creatures.
	What I'm telling you here is that a lot of what we get back from the world has to do with our expectations.
	I've had elephants, you know, put their Whether it was in Asia, in Nepal, or whether it was at the Portland Zoo, I've had elephants put their trunks over my nose and breathe with me in synchrony for five minutes while we held eye-to-eye contact.
	I call it conspiracy.
	It means breathing together, conspiring with elephants.
	But that's what it is, and why does it happen?
	I've seen other people walk right up, do all the same things I did, and it never happened to them.
	When I was in Asia helping this woman study elephant behavior, she wanted to become the Jane Goodall of elephants.
	I didn't.
	I had no particular ambitions.
	I had great admiration for the elephants and great love for them, but my ego wasn't involved in that work.
	And when an elephant would bow to me, literally bow to me, it would get down and do what the... I think you're doing very important work.
	Doctor, we are out of time.
	Okay.
	I heartily appreciate your updating us on this story, and if there are any further developments, please get a hold of me right away and we'll get you back on.
	Thank you, Art.
	Alright, thank you, Dr. Eaton.
	Take care.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	Okay, just a few, uh, current items and then we'll go to the phones here.
	The Afghan, uh, foreign minister said Mullah Mohammad Omar is surrounded by anti-Taliban forces near the central city of Baghlan, as U.S.
	troops and warplanes on Friday went after Al-Qaeda fighters in eastern Afghanistan.
	So...
	So they may be about to get him.
	If captured, he will either be tried in Afghanistan or elsewhere.
	That's pretty interesting.
	Earlier, they were saying they were going to turn him over to the U.S.
	right away.
	Now, all of a sudden, the Afghan government is suggesting that they might not, that he might be tried there in Afghanistan.
	I don't think that is satisfactory.
	There was a U.S.
	Army Special Forces soldier killed Friday by small arms fire.
	It was an ambush that occurred in the east part of Afghanistan, the first American military death directly from enemy fire.
	And as I told you in Australia, the weather around the world is just astounding right now.
	Not... I mean, it is.
	We're setting all kinds of weather records.
	No surprise for me, but in Australia, thousands of koalas are either dead or injured because of the fires that are raging across that country.
	The nation's unemployment rate is on the way up.
	Six-year high now at about 5.8%.
	Still, I can remember years when 5.8% would be a goal.
	Probably thought to be unattainable.
	Remember that?
	Well, we're going to have a guest on this subject, but I need to cover it with you, because it's occurring right now.
	The cattle mutilations are back.
	The kind of déjà vu that Everett King could do without.
	About 15 years ago, he discovered the grisly remains of one of his cattle that had died mysteriously.
	Well, in October, apparently, we're just finding out right now, it occurred again.
	King said it looked as though a surgeon had sliced into a seven-year-old in the way of its right eye and ear were cut off, not to mention the way its reproductive organs had been cored.
	Here we go again.
	What King finds most unusual, however, is that two months later, the carcass lies right where he found it, Untouched predators won't eat it.
	They won't touch it.
	It should have been cleaned up and gone a long time ago, but they will not touch it.
	Ranchers reported four mutilations between June and August since then.
	There have been, get this, 11 more.
	And investigators are still searching for any answers.
	Same bizarre circumstances, haunted area ranchers, and baffled law enforcement, 20 years ago, sparking rumors about UFOs, cults, government conspiracies, all the rest of it.
	It just goes on and on and on.
	I believe this is occurring for the most part in the area, in the Montana area.
	And...
	And there's a lot of it going on.
	I mean, just all of a sudden, we're getting the news.
	It's breaking all over the place.
	Cattle mutilations like crazy in Montana now.
	I have no answers, and I don't know anybody that does for what this is, what's doing this, and why.
	None of it seems like it makes any sense at all to me.
	Now here's something pretty interesting.
	It looks like in New Mexico, a church is burning Harry Potter books.
	Now, I also saw, I guess it appeared in a New York newspaper, an exorcist, a Catholic priest there, that was also talking about the Evil aspects from his point of view of the Potter books.
	Listen to this.
	Almogordo, New Mexico, AP.
	As hundreds protested nearby, a church group burned Harry Potter and other books.
	Jack Brock, the Christ Community Church founder and pastor, said the books burned Sunday were, quote, a masterpiece of satanic deception, end quote.
	These books, he goes on, teach children how they can get into witchcraft and become a witch, wizard, or even warlock, said Brock.
	Members sang Amazing Grace as they tossed Potter books plus some other books and magazines into the fire.
	So we're still doing that and here is a picture of Ouija board, a giant flame with the Ouija boards, the works of
	Shakespeare, Harry Potter books, ACDC records.
	I'm...
	they made what's being called a holy fire in New Mexico and they burned all of these things.
	Now, let's see, the person who sent this to me says, all right, I believe you, meaning me,
	are connected to some larger government plan to control the masses.
	As much as I believe you, I see a tendency for you to divert attention away from our government and toward other areas of interest.
	I hope I'm wrong.
	Oh, by the way, I'm 100% behind burning Harry Potter books.
	Dean of Alpine, California.
	Well, hmm.
	We have lots of talks here about how the American public would
	accept news of alien presence and accept news of life after death or
	Oh, and I've got something on that, too.
	And then you, you know, you read stories like this and, uh, I don't know.
	I have always thought that, uh, the Brookings study was as correct today as it was the day it was written.
	And, of course, it predicts that people would freak out and, you know, as I've said, basically, if they landed a little green guy would be so full of lead by the time they got, you know, down to the bottom of the ramp that we probably will start an intergalactic war or something.
	In other words, there are a lot of people around who still think that anything of this kind is evil, satanic.
	Here, listen to this.
	Ruth writes, Here's why we Bible-believing Christians do not glom on to research about life after death.
	Another subject I've been very interested in lately.
	We are secure in the knowledge that the Bible gives us about the afterlife.
	We don't need any science on that topic, and in fact are suspicious that Satan himself could be pulling off such a deception for modern people.
	Second, it'll not convince non-believers.
	In Luke 17, there's a story of the rich man In Hades, who asked Abraham to send somebody back to Earth to tell his brothers so they'd not go to the place of torment.
	Abraham said that if they do not believe Moses and the prophets, then they will not be persuaded, even if one rose from the dead.
	So, there is a school of thought out there, represented, you know, by the people who burn the books down there.
	All the rest of the stuff.
	And Ruth, who really just don't care about any sub, we don't need no dibs on that topic.
	Well, I'm sorry, Ruth, I do.
	And it's interesting to me, your missive, nevertheless, non-withstanding, It's really interesting that you, to me, that you felt absolutely compelled to write on that subject.
	It astounds me that true believers are apparently repelled by the idea that science is closing in on proving, on proving, mind you, that we have a soul, something entirely separate from our physical being, from our brains, That, I mean, entirely separate.
	You would think, wouldn't you, that the churches and the religious believers out there would be not only in tune with these findings and these amazing things we're now learning from science about what may be, but hell funding such efforts.
	But it's the exact opposite.
	They're freaking out.
	They hate it.
	They hate the fact that science is beginning to verify what they've had as an article of faith.
	I'm astounded by it.
	Absolutely astounded by it.
	Anyway.
	Open lines.
	Promised open lines now.
	West of the Rockies.
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	I was just hearing, um, what you ate that time with the whale.
	And I'm aware of some of the studies which state that even the simplest life forms have failing souls, etc.
	And I could go by my own experience with that because I'm a big fan of heavy metal music and I noticed when I was younger that all the plants my mother had that were within earshot, they all died.
	I don't blame them.
	They all died.
	I don't blame them.
	I mean, if I was a plant, I'd I don't know what I'd do.
	I'd kick my dirt out and die.
	And here I am with a plant now, and I'm 31 years old, still listening to Kiss, Maiden, Marilyn Manson, what have you.
	Still killing plants, huh?
	No.
	I have so much respect for this plant.
	I keep the music down.
	It's not even in the apartment.
	It's outside.
	So you separate the plant from your music.
	Okay, fine.
	I think that's compassionate.
	But an intuitive, even wonderful on your part, what I would like to say though, sir, just before you go on, is, you know, if it does that to your plant, what do you think it's doing to you?
	That's a good question and I don't know if I really care about that.
	But we're seeing that other animals can raise children, you know, human children from time to time.
	How do you convince these hardened skeptics and a lot of them are Christian that, hey, other life forms have souls?
	They say, no, only man does.
	Don't give me that.
	I saw an ape.
	I was in my early 20s.
	I saw an ape.
	She noticed that I was looking at her and her child and she looked at it, it must have
	been a newborn baby because she did it just the way a human would do it.
	I'm like, if anybody can tell me how you can convince these people in the dark ages, hey,
	yes, every living thing has a soul, I'd like to know where I can do that.
	The answer is you're not going to do that.
	They're off burning books, Harry Potter books and other stuff.
	They're calling it satanic.
	And, you know, the religions don't want a thing to do with any proof that there might be a soul separate of the body.
	I just... So, you know, I mean, what are you going to prove to those people?
	Nothing at all.
	And that shows you how far away I am from understanding this aspect of Christian fundamentalism.
	I don't get it.
	I absolutely, straight on, don't get it.
	If science is closing in on proving what they believe, why would they be upset by that?
	That just doesn't make sense.
	On the first time caller line, you are on the air.
	Hello.
	I just had something I wanted to kind of throw out there.
	Where are you?
	Oh, this is the squirrel from California calling.
	At one time you referred to me as Ms.
	Squirrel.
	I just have something I wanted to kind of throw out there.
	Where are you?
	Oh, this is the squirrel from California calling.
	At one time you referred to me as Ms. Squirrel.
	You mean I talked to you before?
	Yes, and I don't understand how I ended up on this first call.
	Well, I have bad news for you.
	Oh, no!
	Oh, yes.
	It's life after death, Art.
	It will have to be for you, because this is phone death.
	You see, the first-time caller line is for exactly that and only that.
	It's for first-time callers.
	Only.
	And you can only be a first-time caller one time.
	Ever.
	So if you are a first-time caller, use that line.
	Otherwise, use any of the others.
	First-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	Put there, obviously, to allow people who have never called the show before an opportunity to do so without going through as much traffic.
	So there you are.
	Maybe you will get thrown another line, which will be like life after death.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello.
	This is Santiago in Gainesville, Florida.
	Welcome.
	Listening to you on WSKY.
	Yes, ma'am.
	And I would like for you to go to stereo because this station is FM.
	Stereo.
	Yes.
	Yes.
	Thank you for reminding me.
	I thought about it.
	All day long, because like it occurred to me as I went on the air last night, I thought, why am I not in stereo?
	And then all day today, I saw internal memos flying around.
	I got copies of internal memos that were flying around in the highest engineering circles of Premier.
	I also had some show format ideas for you.
	do this, can we do that? Do you suppose it's possible? And technical jargon going back
	and forth talking about stereo, I thought was pretty cool.
	I don't know if we're going to be able to do it, but I guess I got their attention.
	Well, I also had some show format ideas for you. Like what? When you replay the first hour of
	the show, why not go back into the archives and pull out like one of the older shows
	and play back the first hour Monday and the second hour on Tuesday and so on.
	Because it would mix people up.
	You know, they would all of a sudden be thrust into an entirely, it'd be like time travel or something.
	I really like the idea of putting on archive shows, you know.
	And I put on a lot of archive shows because we have done over the years a lot of really important shows that deserve repeating.
	But doing like an hour archive and sort of combining that with a live show having been done that night would confuse actually even me.
	But I appreciate the idea.
	Well, I was wondering if you had Andrew Weil on as a guest?
	No, I don't think so.
	Well, he wrote a book that I got recently, and it's pretty interesting.
	About what?
	It's From Chocolate to Morphine.
	It's an unbiased book about drugs.
	Oh, From Chocolate to Morphine.
	Now, there is a pretty good title for a book.
	From Chocolate to Morphine.
	Or milk to morphine.
	I may have a better ring.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	Good morning.
	All right.
	This is kind of interesting, and I think maybe we'll give it a try and see what happens.
	I have no idea what's gonna happen, actually.
	That's usually the case on this program.
	Somebody sent me an email.
	Roberta sent me an email by Paul Harvey.
	Now, I don't know if it's THE Paul Harvey.
	It's entitled, If I Were the Devil.
	If I Were the Devil.
	And then, of course, it's a thing about how I would corrupt the morals of the children, and I would, you know, ruin America, and I would do this and that to the world.
	And it's quite long, and I'm not going to burden you by reading it, but I am considering asking you that question.
	In other words, what would you do if you were the devil?
	If I were to ask you to put yourself in the shoes of the Horned One, the devil, what would you do?
	Now, don't call up and say, I'd fall on my knees and ask God to take me back, because that's not, you know, that's not happening.
	The devil does what the devil does.
	And I'm not exactly even sure what the devil does.
	You know, there are those who say that he is responsible for all the evil, horrible things that happen in the world.
	But I'm not even sure about that one.
	So I don't know what the devil's job is.
	I suppose he goes out there and makes deals for souls.
	You listen to Father Martin when he was on the program.
	He talked about people having made perfect deals with the devil and all the rest of that.
	But, you know, other than perhaps striking those deals up with living souls, because we are supposedly quite a valuable commodity to be fought over, I thought it might be interesting, but also rather dangerous, To ask you what you would do if you were the devil.
	Now, if you want to try to answer that question, again I say, before you answer it, put yourself in the shoes of the devil.
	Now, he's not wanting God's forgiveness, he's not wanting to hop up to heaven or anything else.
	He got booted out and really has it in for the big guy and he's just, you know, he's the devil.
	So, if you're going to try and answer the question, it is a very interesting question.
	First, try to put yourself in the shoes of the cast-off one, the cast-down one, who has nothing but real vengeance on his mind and competes for souls.
	So, if you were the devil, if you were the devil, what would you do?
	Anybody out there want to try and answer that for me?
	I would be very interested in listening to what you have to say.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello?
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Art?
	Yes.
	Why?
	I just heard you ask the question, but that wasn't exactly the reason that I called.
	However, you have an answer.
	Do I have an answer?
	Yeah.
	If you were the devil, what would you do?
	Well, I don't believe in the devil, so it's hard for me to answer that.
	Well, just be a good actor and put yourself in his shoes.
	You've seen enough movies with the devil, right?
	So you know a little bit about the devil.
	If you were the devil, what would you do?
	I would take control of the most powerful force in the world and use it to manipulate the minds of the masses.
	You'd take control of my show?
	Yeah, your show in part.
	Your show is part of something larger.
	I would take control of the media.
	If I was the devil and I wanted to destroy... I am part of the media.
	To me, the devil, evil destroys life and brings chaos, confusion, etc, etc, etc.
	And you think the media is fully capable of fulfilling that role?
	I think it's possible in the sense that there are many people who watch the evening news on one of the big three or four and take it as, well, in the parlance of your question, gospel.
	Well, hey, you know, listen to this.
	Ed Dames, no matter what you think of him, remote-viewed the Antichrist.
	Excuse me?
	Ed Daines remote-viewed the Antichrist.
	Well, I actually...
	Before you go on, what he said was, the Antichrist is TV.
	That wouldn't surprise me at all.
	I worked in broadcast for nine years, so that's why I chose that.
	Is it okay if I talk to you just briefly about the main reason I decided to call you?
	Yes, yes.
	First of all, I have to say I feel a little bit strange about calling.
	Since I was a little kid, I've seen things that I've never really been able to explain.
	Like what?
	People.
	People that other people don't see.
	And I hope I don't sound like a quack.
	I'm a little bit nervous.
	No, you don't sound like a quack.
	I had actually accidentally tuned into your show because I was listening on AM radio on the way home from work one night late just to catch the traffic.
	I get a lot of people like that, sir.
	Well, I heard someone talking about remote viewing and I heard someone talking about Some strange things that run around in the sky.
	I forget what those were called.
	Anyway... You don't see shadow people?
	I don't know what to call them.
	What do they look like?
	It depends.
	I think it depends on how emotional I am.
	That's the only way I've been able to figure it out.
	Describe one as best you can.
	Well, how about if I describe one at each end of the spectrum?
	There's been one or two that I've seen in incredible detail.
	An old man with a beard, standing over my bed, looking at me.
	I didn't feel scared, but I felt pretty strange.
	Um, I had to acknowledge his presence.
	I mean, I knew he was there.
	He knew I was where I was, but... Fully formed, as we would see an old man with a beard in front of us?
	Not quite fully formed.
	Most of the detail I could see was in his face, but then again, it was nighttime and I was laying in my bed.
	Right.
	So, uh... Okay, in the interest of time, the other you saw?
	Sometimes I see shapes of They're slightly blurry, kind of like an outline.
	The reason that I called is that this past year of my life, it's become more and more common.
	I noticed that it depends on the geographic region of the country that I'm in, where I see more or where I see less.
	I have a friend who fully believes in all of this.
	He believes in remote viewing, etc., etc.
	One time I was at his house.
	Actually, he is the father of one of my best friends and I hadn't seen this guy in a long time.
	I was at his house visiting my best buddy who was in town and the subject of ghosts came up.
	I told him, well, you know, it's funny you mention this.
	I've seen some things lately that have given me pause.
	He said, well, why don't you do me a favor and go into this certain room in my house and tell me what you feel and tell me what you see.
	This was completely unprompted.
	I saw something that scared me and made me feel very strange.
	What did you see?
	Well, he told me what I saw.
	He said, did you see a man in a leather jacket wearing an Indiana Jones cap?
	And I said, oh my God, yeah, I did.
	And from that point on, I've been more keenly aware that this thing is real.
	Oh, there's no question about it.
	Thank you very much, sir.
	Number one, uh, the second being he described sounded suspiciously like what we're calling shadow people for lack of a better term.
	And these are being seen, uh, you may want to know, uh, you are not wacko, by thousands or even hundreds of thousands of people out there, so you're not alone, sir.
	And as far as the ghost is concerned, you know, I know there are a lot of people Friday night, Saturday morning that would not have been here, for example, last night.
	Let's see if I can crash this part of the website, huh?
	One of the best ghost photographs that I have ever seen in my years of doing this is on my website, and it went up last night under the What's New As you go at toartbell.com on the left-hand side under What's New, there's something entitled Parking Garage Ghost in Japan.
	It's from some sort of Japanese broadcast.
	It was obviously broadcast in Japan somewhere.
	And it's a real video file, and what you will see... Well, I've been getting emails all day long, not fast blast, because they appear to be quite...
	Broken at the moment, but if you'll go take a look at this parking garage ghost, and you've got to watch this absolutely, you have to watch it several times, not just once.
	You'll see an apparition, not fully involved, not fully physical, walk behind a concrete pillar, along the wall, behind a car, and then walk right through the wall.
	I mean, this is motion video, folks.
	This is a security camera, you know, in a parking garage in Japan.
	No wonder they ran it.
	It's the damnedest thing you've ever seen.
	So, get to my website, take a look at this, and let me know what you think.
	So, do I think there are ghosts?
	Why, as a matter of fact, yes, I do.
	I sure do.
	So, what you're seeing, sir, is not a shock to me.
	You know, it just occurred to me that guy said he didn't believe in the devil.
	I should have asked him if he believed in God.
	I wonder if he just believes in the good guy and believes there is no bad guy.
	Oh, what a surprise he could have, huh?
	So, anyway, the question is, what would you do if you were the devil?
	If you were the devil, what would you do?
	How would you go about Disrupting things and causing strife and death and starvation and all the things that people think he's responsible for.
	On my first time caller line, you are on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Am I on the air?
	Yes, you are.
	Oh, fantastic.
	Where are you, sir?
	I'm in New Jersey.
	Okay.
	And I'm nervous as all get out.
	It's the first time I've ever called any talk show.
	Really?
	But the topic of conversation, and I figured that you're the kind of person that the things I want to say, you and your audience will probably give some consideration to.
	Let's hear it.
	Before Sunday, I would probably give you an answer as far as the devil and that kind of thing. Oh yes. But I've been in
	deep study. I have to give Lynn Samuels of WABC in New York credit for starting me on this journey.
	She made some comment on New Year's Eve about the founding fathers of the United States and that
	they weren't Christians and they were deists. And I mean, and I started looking on, I was on the
	internet at the time.
	She probably said that because there are so many people running around saying that the Founding Fathers based the whole Constitution on the Bible and religion and all the rest of it.
	This is a Christian nation.
	Yeah, that's right.
	Now, I've been engaged in studies since then, until this minute, and I'm only scratching the surface.
	Right.
	And what happened is, I ran across this gentleman by the name of Thomas Paine.
	You ever heard of him?
	Yes, I have.
	Okay, have you done extensive study of what Thomas Paine wrote?
	Uh, no I haven't.
	No, I haven't actually.
	Please do.
	Please do.
	And what will I, what will I, if I do that, what will I discover?
	I implore you and your listening audience.
	Okay, but if we do that, what will we discover?
	Give us a, tease us, make us want to read.
	Or maybe he hadn't done the reading on Thomas Paine himself.
	Hard to tell.
	Uh, wildcard line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi Art.
	Hello.
	How you doing?
	Uh, okay.
	Uh, good.
	I'm calling about an article I just read, uh, online.
	from Canada.com in Ottawa about it takes only 11 nuclear bombs to take out Canada.
	Really?
	All of Canada could be taken out with 11 nukes?
	That's what it says.
	And the interesting thing is it tells about other countries too.
	And it said for Iraq and North Korea.
	Are you in Canada?
	No, I'm sorry.
	My name is Mark.
	I'm in West Hartford, Connecticut.
	I see.
	Okay, um, it said Iraq and North Korea would be destroyed by targeting each with four nuclear weapons.
	Four.
	Four each.
	Hmm.
	Destroy all the NATO countries, Canada included, would require around 300 warheads.
	China, because of its large population, would have to be targeted by 368.
	But the weird thing is, it says U.S., it would only take 124.
	Considering that Russia and us have thousands upon thousands, that's not a lot.
	So, then, the number of nukes it takes to utterly poison forever, with regard to humanity's presence, any given area, depends on its geographical size more than anything else, apparently.
	That's what it said in the article, anyway.
	It's a new computer program.
	It's developed by Matthew McKenzie, who's a physicist, who worked on the computer program for the Washington-based Natural Resources Defense Council.
	And the point of all this is?
	It doesn't take much, it sounds like.
	No.
	To wipe out Canada with 11, Iraq with 4.
	Yeah, that's something to think about, isn't it?
	I mean, you hear that we have thousands or 11,000 nukes and Russia has so many and we don't need to need them all.
	Oh no, we've had overkills here forever.
	They're cutting back on the amount of weapons specifically because that is true.
	You know, you could do away with humanity's ability to survive on the planet rather quickly.
	Wouldn't take that many.
	There is an interesting argument, though, as disarmament continues and the number of nukes, it'll be interesting to know where the number of nukes crosses below the threshold and MAD, or Mutual Assured Destruction, is no longer possible.
	Making nuclear warfare In the eyes of somebody or another, some crazed person out there, survivable.
	So where that number of nukes would be, I don't know, but we continue to reduce them.
	Hopefully we don't get totally below that number, because then nuclear war would be all the more likely.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	All right.
	Yes.
	Thank you.
	Your question, what would I do if I was the devil?
	Yes.
	Art, I would teach in Jesus' name.
	It seems like these fundamentalists... You would teach in Jesus' name if you were the devil?
	It seems like all of these fundamentalist preachers say it's like it's a magic formula or something.
	I bind Satan, I bind disease, and then they just say in Jesus' name.
	You know, Art... So, in other words, I'm trying to get this straight.
	You would masquerade as a religious icon?
	Well, you know, they say that Islam has been hijacked by the Fundamentalists.
	I say that Christianity has been hijacked by these Fundamentalists.
	They talk about life before birth.
	Life begins with the breath of life in the nostrils.
	Wait a minute, wait a minute.
	How do you know that?
	Well, it's in the book of Genesis, as Adam was born.
	When a baby is at seven or eight months, and in the womb, and kicking the crap out of the womb, and just moving around and smiling, and moving with the opposable thumbs and stuff like that, that's not life?
	No, it says Adam was formed, but then he was breathed in the breath of life, and then he became a living soul.
	You know, this doomsday theology, these fundamentalists, they're taking advantage of the fear and insecurity of people to frighten them into religion.
	Yeah, well, that's part of what religion, how they do what they do.
	Well, we've got one world economic system almost with the advent of the euro, and it just seems... I follow the teachings of the 17th century Swedish theologian.
	Alright, alright, sir.
	I'm sorry, we're out of time.
	Yeah, I know about the euro.
	You know, the euro isn't doing too well.
	It was supposed to be a match for the dollar, right?
	But I don't think it's up to a dollar.
	Interesting to see how the euro does.
	I'm not worried about it taking over the world.
	Can't even catch up to the dollar right now.
	Anyway, even though I was hesitant to do it, I'm warming up to the idea.
	Lay this way in the tree Anyway, even though I was hesitant to do it, I'm warming up
	to the idea.
	What would you do if you were the devil?
	And don't say a word until you think about it.
	Until you really put yourself in the devil's shoes.
	Remember, the devil is angry.
	The devil likes his job.
	The devil enjoys what he does.
	So you think about it.
	You tell me.
	There's going to be burning copies of my show on the Harry Potter.
	I really thought hard before I decided I would ask you this question.
	I received this thing from Paul Harvey, who has a very different intent, and I thought, you know, what an interesting question.
	What would happen if you asked people what they would do if they were the devil?
	These topics, you know, always get me in trouble.
	In fact, I've lost two radios, two affiliates over the years.
	Just two affiliates over the years.
	One up in Utah, a very religious affiliate up there.
	Totally freaked out because of some of my topics.
	Even though, interestingly, a lot of them are very religious on the other hand, but in a certain way.
	But they thought not, and another station immediately picked it up.
	And here last week, Uh, we lost another affiliate in some town in Colorado somewhere.
	Because of the same thing.
	He talks about the devil and stuff.
	We can't have it.
	Well, you know, like 24 hours later, the rumor got out that some station was going to drop us because of, I don't know, the Harry Potter syndrome, we'll call it, right?
	And in exactly 24 hours, the competitor in town said, we heard a rumor that that station is going to drop you.
	Can we have you?
	And so that's exactly where all the ratings are going to go over there.
	Sort of a moronic move.
	Somebody who doesn't, in my opinion, listen to the station, they take a few calls from people, probably the fundamentalists during the day, saying, he's the devil!
	He's the devil!
	You know, and they react to that.
	They don't actually listen.
	It's so interesting, the kind of responses you get to a question like this.
	And, you know, it leads all over the place.
	It's just an interesting study in human nature.
	Some people don't believe in the devil.
	Those who do might want to consider, even those who don't, what they would do if they were the Big Horned One.
	This also, before we go back to calls here, This is from Tim.
	This is kind of interesting.
	And I haven't read it yet, but if you have knowledge, email me.
	Let me know.
	Tim says, Art, I'm listening to Dean Kuntz's new book.
	You know, Dean Kuntz, very famous author, right?
	Called One Door Away from Heaven.
	One Door Away from Heaven.
	One Door Away from Heaven.
	Interesting title.
	Which came out December 26th on audiobook.
	And I was floored when I heard your name and your show, not the title of the show, were part of the story.
	Have you thought of having Mr. Koontz as a guest on the program?
	In a previous book, False Memory, there was a character which was interested in the topics talked about on your show.
	So apparently, it may be true.
	He says take a look at getting his new book.
	It has an alien in it and is a very good book.
	So Dean Kuntz may have mentioned me in a book.
	If anybody knows specifically what he said, I would be interested.
	And yes, Dean Kuntz probably would be a pretty interesting person to have on the show, I would imagine.
	He's kind of a dark thinker.
	If you've read a lot of Kuntz, he's a dark thinker.
	Just my kind of guy.
	Okay, where to go?
	Oh, I know where to go.
	Now let's do what we have to do so we don't get in trouble.
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	A wild card line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	Yes.
	Yes, I'm calling in reference to your question, what would I do if I was the devil?
	Yes.
	Um, we have to remember that ultimately Satan's goal is not to destroy our physical world and make us hurt up here.
	His ultimate goal is to gain souls for hell.
	And the best way to do that, and if I was the devil... You know, he is a collector, that's right.
	I mean, there's a contest going on for souls.
	So, yes, you're right.
	Yes.
	That's what he does.
	That's his main purpose.
	And so, therefore, if you were in charge of that task... I would do what it would take to keep people's mind off God, which is to grant them material things.
	Money, houses, things that keep their mind off God.
	Preoccupy them to let them believe that they have everything they already need on this physical world they're taking care of.
	So why should they go to God?
	And what nation in the world would you name that has most moved in the material technological direction more than any other nation on the face of the earth?
	What nation would you name?
	That would be the United States, Art.
	Uh huh.
	I see.
	If you look around, I remember growing up and seeing nothing but jalopies on the road for the most part.
	You know, cars, hanging mufflers, brush spots, things like that.
	If you look around now, it's hard to find a bad looking car.
	Most of the vehicles you see on the road... Well, yeah, I guess from the devil's point of view, you know, he's a car salesman, a new car salesman.
	Well, people are content.
	They're content with what they have.
	They feel that there's no need for anything else in their life.
	So if they're content, they're not going to look for anything else and that's it.
	Thank you.
	Have you ever dealt with a car salesperson?
	In a way, it's kind of like they're trying to make a deal for your soul, right?
	Isn't that right?
	They take you into the showroom.
	You look at the car and you go... And they... What do they do?
	They say things like, well, I see you in this car.
	I mean, this car is you.
	Have a seat, sir.
	You feel the leather.
	Do you feel the appointments?
	Do you see that wonderful screen there?
	It will guide you.
	Electronically, through every turn, you'll never have to ask directions again, sir.
	Sit there, get the feel of the machine.
	Can you feel the machine around you?
	Can you feel the power?
	It's just like the devil.
	He's right east of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi Art, this is Jay from Homestead Falls.
	I found it interesting the other day the History Channel was playing a bunch of stuff on UFOs and that and then you had some things on UFOs.
	I'm calling in reference to, this goes back a few years, there was a lady in Vermont, Illinois That had a sighting of a triangular shaped UFO, made no sound, and then later on there was a Sandusky, Ohio policeman, or wife of a policeman, that had a similar sighting.
	Well, I was coming out of, I'm a truck driver, and I was coming out of Darien, Wisconsin going over towards Beloit.
	Right.
	And I was, you know, I-43 runs east and west at that point.
	And I was looking up in the sky, looking at Jupiter, and just to the right of it, there was a... This was as you were moving?
	Yeah, as I was driving.
	And right to the right of it, there was a bright white light that about the same brilliance as Jupiter was, and it wasn't moving.
	It was staying, you know, Relative to Jupiter and I watched it for about five or ten minutes and I'm thinking I've you know I've been watching Jupiter for you know a few nights and I'm thinking that's a new light yeah well I'm also a private pilot and so I'm thinking that this is just a plane that's headed towards me with its landing lights on because I'm not that far north
	of Chicago at that point and I'm looking at the airplanes all stacked up going in, you know, towards Chicago.
	Lined up, yeah.
	Right, okay.
	Well, all of a sudden this thing starts moving towards the south.
	Oh.
	Okay.
	Well, the thing that is, is that if it was a plane as it made a right hand turn to go south, okay, Because I'm going west and if it's coming towards me it would be going east.
	Well then the light would have disappeared or something.
	Exactly.
	So I would see it's position light.
	Yes of course.
	Well it stayed the bright white light.
	And I would find it very interesting to listen to the playbacks On the Approach Control for Chicago.
	For that period of time.
	Exactly.
	Because what happened... Right.
	After that, what happened was that this bright white flight accelerated to the airplane that was the last in the line.
	Yes.
	And came to, you know, matched its speed.
	Yes. Just above and to the front of it.
	So obviously, that flight crew had to have seen that object.
	Well, OK. All right.
	But here's here's what my problem is.
	If it accelerated and went into position in front of the last plane in the in the line
	and plans to line up, you see him all lined up by either taking off or landing.
	And then the logical presumption would be, despite the fact that the light
	maintained its brightness in through the turn, that an air controller put it in that spot.
	That's what they do, is they line them up.
	Now, if it was some sort of UFO, then it just got into the landing pattern.
	And I'm sure some pilot had quite a sight, but I would doubt that was the case.
	I would say it was much more likely that was an airliner, but that's just a guess.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hello? Hello? Hello? I was to the Rockies.
	You're on the air.
	Are you going to speak?
	Art?
	Yes.
	This is Deborah in Missoula, Montana, listening on KGVO 1290 AM.
	How you doing?
	Very good.
	I was speaking to you from the entrance to Hellgate Canyon, and I am A satanic feminist?
	Yes, that's correct.
	We trace our lineage back to Eve.
	We believe that Eve was the first satanic feminist.
	And this is why we believe that.
	I mean, she starts out as a simple country girl tending a garden.
	Along comes the friendly garden snake who enlightens her.
	And when the omnipotent God of Adam asked who gave him the fruit of the tree of knowledge, Adam did not hesitate to rat Eve out.
	And there began the true schism between men and women.
	He ratted her out?
	Well, of course he ratted her out.
	At that time, there was no other choice.
	I mean, she was the only one there.
	What did he have to rat out?
	It was obvious that it was her.
	He could have said that the snake gave him the fruit of the tree of knowledge.
	He didn't have to immediately rat Eve out.
	He had a choice.
	And he chose to rat Eve out and stand with God.
	Also, we also believe that God is also... So I have another meeting.
	I mean, if you look at the letters, G-O-D, they could also stand for Grand Old Dyke.
	Oh, please.
	Oh, come on.
	Oh, please.
	We believe in the unholy trinity.
	You do?
	Yes, me, myself, and I. A total self-possession kind of thing, eh?
	Of course!
	That's a satanic feminist!
	And every three years we hold our own Olympics.
	We only have, really, only three.
	categories. You have Satanic Feminist Olympics? Yes, Satanic Feminist Olympics. Our first
	contest is the fastest goat beheading. Our second is the fastest goat skinner.
	775-727-1200.
	You lie.
	We also give an honorary award to the best ghost-ass kisser.
	What are you really?
	I mean, aside from perhaps an aspiring actress.
	No, honest to God, Art, I am a satanic feminist.
	I swear to you, I am a satanic feminist.
	Well, and these other things you just talked about?
	Well, they're part of what makes me a satanic feminist, right?
	You're not doing this with your tongue in your cheek or wherever you place it when you get like this.
	But you're saying it's for real, huh?
	Well, of course it's for real.
	Why would I want to lie about something like this?
	Because you're satanic.
	That's right!
	Hello!
	Thank you, Ari.
	It was a pleasure to meet you.
	You're a good human.
	Thank you very much.
	We do believe in that.
	Bye.
	Bye-bye, indeed.
	I guess she was serious.
	A satanic feminist.
	You know, there's a lot of people who say, well, they're all satanic.
	Ha ha ha ha.
	Oh!
	That was an interesting call.
	Now, if there are any other satanic Feminists out there to confirm what this lady laughed her way through.
	I'll be sure and try and get through tonight on one of the lines.
	As the general question persists, what would you do if you were the devil?
	First time caller line, you are on the air.
	Hello?
	Yeah, Art!
	Yes, what is it?
	Everybody's half a beat behind me tonight.
	I say hello and they just sit there.
	Yeah, well, I thought I was on the wild card line.
	No.
	I'm a chaplain already.
	You're a chaplain.
	I wanted to let you know, first of all, that what I'd do if I were the devil would be to get Christians' attention diverted from Christ-teaching to mundane activities such as learning Harry Potter books.
	That'd be the first step.
	How did you react to the news of the burning of Mr. Potter's books?
	Well, let's go back then and let's burn Ron Howard's fantastic movie, Willow.
	Let's trash out all of the Cutie Pie witches movies that have been on forever.
	I mean, come on.
	Do you have a favorite?
	In that category?
	Well, no, not really, but here's the deal, Art.
	Your fundamentalist Christians are like kindergartners, okay?
	Christianity is based on the teachings of Christ.
	He also said in his scripture, you know, things like, uh, not all who call me Lord will enter into the kingdom.
	He's speaking primarily of fundamentalist Christians who are so busy... And that's somewhat of an interpretation.
	...trashy rock and roll... That's a bit of... That's a bit of... Wait a minute.
	That's kind of an interpretation on your part.
	You know, if I was in court, I'd say, uh, you don't have first-hand knowledge here.
	That testimony will not stand.
	You're presuming the mind of God.
	Yeah, see, Christ taught that we're to be victorious in spiritual warfare, you know.
	Okay, well, I'll ask for somebody to presume the mind of God in yet another program, but not this one.
	This one is presuming the mind of the devil.
	The devil.
	The one who lives in the heat and the fire and the coal and the burning and the eternal damnation of souls.
	That one.
	If you were that one, what would you do?
	Wildcard Lion, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	Yeah, if I was the devil, I would lie to everybody, but I would make it look like the truth, which is what he does.
	He makes all it look like God and Jesus.
	Nothing.
	So you would be like a used car salesperson?
	Exactly!
	I would make it look good, but it's really a lemon.
	Yeah, well, to be a good used car salesperson, you'd have to have a little bit of his horned ones-ness in you.
	Think about it, Art.
	I am.
	If he said, if he was going to tell you the truth, he would defeat his purpose, wouldn't he?
	Well, I don't know.
	It depends on what the truth is.
	And we're not all together sure about that, are we?
	What the truth is.
	We don't know the full truth.
	Yes, we do.
	We have faith.
	We have belief.
	We know what truth is.
	Oh yeah, I know.
	You're comfortable and that's fine.
	You know what the truth is.
	I don't know.
	I personally am not convinced that I know the all of everything.
	And I'm still sort of checking that out.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	I'd like to have a comment.
	Is this on?
	It is, yes.
	Turn your radio off.
	Extinguish it in totality.
	All right.
	Okay.
	If I may, I'd like to read a statement I have prepared.
	No.
	I don't let people read prepared statements.
	Oh, okay.
	Well, let me disagree with the use of stem cells anyway.
	Oh, you can do that.
	Hold on.
	Hold on.
	All right?
	Good.
	We have a break.
	Hey, I've got my fast blast back.
	Cool.
	Jordan in Evansville, Indiana blasts me hard if I were the devil.
	I'd kill all the whales.
	Ha, ha, ha.
	That was the totality of his fast blast.
	He'd kill all the whales.
	Hmm, Jordan.
	I love that web address.
	Guns and stuff.
	Guns and stuff.
	And I also like some of these fast blasts.
	Now, Tambre.
	Tambre?
	T-A-M-B-R-E in San Francisco.
	I like the way they end these one sentence blasts they send me.
	It says, if I were Satan, I'd just kick back on a beach sipping pina coladas because people doing a good enough job of being evil all on their own.
	Hee hee.
	Hee hee.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello?
	Hello?
	Uh, we have a design pregnant pause tonight.
	Every time I try and answer the phone, I don't know what it is.
	Okay, this is, uh, Yvonne from Tucson.
	Yes, Yvonne.
	Uh-huh.
	I was, uh, calling up about, uh, what you were talking about, the devil tonight?
	Yes.
	Uh, well, no, actually, not talking about so much about the devil, although I guess, you know, he'd come up, of course, uh, but what you would do if you were the devil.
	Well, if I was the devil, I would just keep on doing exactly what he's doing, which is, uh, closing people's eyes to what is really happening around, and letting everybody think that he's in control when he's not.
	Hmm.
	Mm-hmm.
	So, in other words, you think the devil is really... he's on the right career track now?
	Mm-hmm.
	Because it's the career that he's chosen for himself.
	That's a good answer.
	That's a good point.
	Thank you.
	It wouldn't change a thing.
	She would just... she'd continue.
	She'd fill the seat and just, you know, keep the same devilish direction going that's going right now because it's working.
	She has a point.
	First time caller line, you are on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, it's Dave from Sacramento.
	Yes, Dave.
	And if I was the devil, I think the number one thing I would try to do is interest you in your brother's business.
	And the second thing I would do is interest you in your brother's business in a way that sounds like God's work, you know, not the devil.
	No, no, no, no, no.
	I want you to be concerned about what the fellow next door is doing.
	I want that to consume you.
	Oh, I see.
	You mean spy on him and want to know everything he does.
	I see.
	Are you jealous?
	Great nosy neighbors.
	That's right.
	Jealous, envious.
	And consumed with things of self.
	My Sunday school teacher, I think, put it well.
	He said, the devil has come to steal your joy.
	And I believe that's the truth.
	If he can steal your serenity, steal your peace of mind, then he's corrupted you.
	He's ruined your whole day, for lack of a better phrase.
	Have you become green over a neighbor?
	Not anymore.
	You had it, but you kicked it.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I see.
	I see.
	All right.
	Well, I probably moved some.
	So one time that consumed him.
	That's interesting.
	Consumed him.
	Envy.
	Jealousy.
	The Jones Syndrome.
	Right?
	It's prevalent in my keeping up with the Joneses, that sort of thing.
	I don't know.
	Interesting.
	He's the first one I've ever heard from, uh, who admitted that.
	Well, Cardline, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello?
	Hello.
	Can you hear me?
	Uh, quite well, thank you.
	Oh, okay.
	Uh, the heater's blowing in here, kind of, kind of makes it hard to hear.
	Anyway, how are you?
	Uh, well, are you in a car?
	No, I'm in a mobile home.
	You're in a mobile home.
	Yeah.
	Well, move away from the heater.
	Well, it's kind of hard to.
	It's cold in it.
	I'm inside, cramped up, but I got me a CC radio.
	Where are you?
	I've been to Mexico.
	Oh, Harry Potter book-burning territory.
	Yeah, it is.
	And I've heard quite a bit about it.
	And I've got me a CC and I listen to your program off and on.
	Good radio.
	Yes, it is.
	What I want to tell you is I like your UFO programs.
	Uh-huh.
	Yeah.
	And a while ago you were talking about some guy writing a book, you know, a little on the dark side.
	Oh, you know who Dean Kuntz is, right?
	Well, I've heard of him.
	I don't really know him that well.
	Oh, he's one of the nation's premier authors.
	He's one of the best.
	Must be.
	I'm kind of from the dark side, a different type of dark side.
	I've tried to get a hold of you a couple of times.
	We're from M.I.D.
	You're a man in black?
	Correct.
	Are you really a man in black?
	Yes, I am.
	And the job of the MIBs is what?
	National Security?
	Well, that's a pretty big umbrella, isn't it?
	Yeah, it is, but... It covers a lot of ground.
	We cover a lot of ground, you know, on every aspect, which we have, but what I was trying to... But you don't exactly tread straight down the constitutional ground when you tread, right?
	Yeah, it's constitutional.
	Oh, sure it is.
	The MIBs are really constitutional champions, aren't they?
	Well, if it's not in the interest of the United States, we're not there.
	Well, that too covers a lot of ground.
	I've seen a lot of stuff and been around.
	I mean, do MIBs get court orders before they do taps on phones and spy on people?
	No.
	No, we don't do that.
	No, see, so is that constitutional?
	No.
	Do they run in and destroy evidence of UFOs and crash sites and that sort of thing?
	No.
	No, they don't.
	No, they don't.
	That's what inspired your radio program for this M.I.V.
	theme song.
	Not the movie, but the M.I.V.
	Well, I don't buy that last part.
	But then again, if you really were M.I.V., you wouldn't admit that, would you?
	Anyway, you know, it's interesting that people who do claim That they're over on this strange side of what's called the secret government.
	You know, operatives of the secret government rather fancy themselves as real true blue Americans, red-white blue Americans.
	Even though they readily admit that the Constitution in their work is shredded.
	Here's to the Rockies, you're on the air, hello.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I'm from Tennessee.
	My name is Mary.
	I've called you before.
	Hi, Mary.
	Hi.
	If I was the devil, I think I would work on children and families, trying to split them up and confuse them.
	And I would also work on segregating the country, or every country.
	In other words, you would work on any kind of division you could get.
	Right.
	Create division and mayhem and hate.
	And that's what, to me, that's what he's all about.
	I have one other comment.
	I consider myself a Christian and I am one of the few who like your shows and feel that
	they are very good.
	I like the guy who did the book on the Shroud of Turin.
	I loved it.
	You know, we do, as you well know, because you are a listener to the program, I was talking
	about this earlier.
	I do some pretty strange things, admittedly.
	Well, you know, but a certain group of people take it in a certain way.
	You know, the same people that are burning Harry Potter's books.
	They take it in a certain way and they call up a radio station and they say, It's the
	You're running, somebody's advocating the devil and the dark side at night!
	Well, if they don't like the Harry Potter books, why do they buy them?
	To burn them, in this case.
	If you're talking about... They're just making someone rich!
	They're making the wrong people rich!
	Yeah, well, I'm not so sure that the Harry Potter books are really an introduction into a life of sorcery and witchcraft and Devil worship?
	I don't think they're that.
	They're magic!
	You know, they're about magic.
	And then, so, if there's a little bit of witchcraft involved, so what?
	Children love them because, uh, children have always loved magic.
	Come on!
	Give me a break here!
	Sheesh!
	It's, uh... It's just, uh...
	Actually, they're wonderful books, you know, and they take children on adventures and adults, too, by the way, into a magical world that many imagine and even wish for.
	But a cult and leading people to the true dark side?
	I don't think so.
	People get so damn worked up over stuff.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey, how you doing, Art?
	Okay, sir.
	Hey, that was a great show last night.
	Oh, I'm phoning, yes.
	I was wondering, next time around, maybe it'd be cool with, like, getting a lawyer's point of view, huh?
	I would imagine that a lawyer's point of view is hip, hip, hooray.
	You know, I mean, this is like a lawyer seeing a hundred car pile up in the fog.
	Yeah, that's what I thought would make it interesting because it kept running into some kind of like dead ends there last night, you know, some of the subjects with your guest.
	And I thought, wow, the lawyer's point of view might be interesting.
	A legal point of view, in other words, right?
	A lawyer is... No, you would go to perhaps a constitutional scholar for an opinion of that sort.
	Thank you very much.
	But going to a lawyer is like going to the devil.
	He'll talk about the subject, but he's a hired gun, and he will go out, and if he's fulfilling his obligation to fend to the very best of his ability, Uh, either side of the, uh, the question.
	That's what they do.
	By some, it is considered to be sort of devilish work, actually.
	Very devilish.
	First time caller online, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	This is Darren.
	I'm from, uh, Lafayette, Louisiana.
	And you're on a cell phone.
	Yes, I am.
	Uh-huh.
	All right.
	Bad, bad thing.
	Yeah, generally.
	I mean, if you could hear it the way I'm hearing it, you sort of sound like you're from Mars and a very watery Mars at that.
	But yes, go ahead.
	Well, water and Mars might be pretty good.
	Go ahead.
	All right.
	Well, I think if I was the devil, I would certainly, like other callers, would continue to do what I'm doing right now, because remember, Well, let's come right out and ask it, sir.
	Obviously, you also think the devil is doing a very good job right now.
	In fact, would you go so far as to say that in the fight between God and the devil for the souls of mankind, the devil is in the lead right now and we're in the fourth quarter?
	I don't know.
	I'm not so sure.
	He may be in the lead, but he's losing his lead.
	And I think there's especially so... You really feel the momentum of the game changing, huh?
	Oh yeah, yeah, certainly.
	Well, that's definitely the half-full glass of water point of view.
	But September 11th, in time, was not very long ago, was it?
	But I think the discussion goes far beyond what happened September 11th, evil as that was.
	It's more about sort of a general who's winning, who's losing kind of deal.
	And I think that you might imagine it, you know, if you don't mind football analogies, as the fourth quarter.
	And maybe even in overtime, for all we know, and one team is driving down the field toward a field goal.
	And believe me, it's the guys in red.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Art Bell?
	Yes.
	Hello.
	Adam from Illinois.
	Yes, Adam.
	Extinguish your radio.
	Oh, yes.
	Thank you.
	Yeah, I've noticed the delay.
	Okay, first, you mentioned something about stem cells.
	First, as Satan, I would clone as many homosexuals as I can, just to make every single, every single Roman Catholic and Christian religion in the world matter.
	Yeah, but that would be counterproductive.
	If you cloned homosexuals to the point where there were, you know, whatever we have now, what, 10%?
	Something like that?
	Yes, there would be no reproduction.
	With no reproduction, though, there would be no new meat, no new souls, sir.
	And with no new souls, there wouldn't be anything to be in contention over.
	That would be my first choice, though.
	Yeah, I know, but you'd be defeating your own purpose.
	So you're the harvester of souls, right?
	If you're the devil.
	So you'd be limiting your own opportunities.
	Well, I also noticed this much.
	My second choice would be just to clone me and have my little clone follow around Jerry Falwell, and every time he tries to make a point, just kind of follow him around to say, you're wrong.
	Eventually, it would drive him insane.
	You mean like, so Jerry would hear, like in the back of his head, You're wrong.
	Yes.
	And we'll thank you.
	Obviously not a Jerry Falwell fan.
	West of the Rockies, you are now on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, turn your radio off, please.
	Thank you.
	Are we just talking about the devil, or can we talk about other things?
	Anything you want.
	Okay, well, how about chemtrails?
	How about them?
	You remember, or let's see, it was last summer, I called in and said that I was telling the neighbors about chemtrails and stuff, and I called in and told you, and you said, well, they better listen because they're coming.
	And then you had Major Ed Daines on?
	Yes.
	And you asked him if he'd remote-viewed Kim Trails?
	Yes, he, or actually, he has direct knowledge, he says, with regard to Kim Trails, and it is the one subject I have battered him over the head about, and he refuses to talk about it at all.
	He says he would go to jail.
	Right, he said it's a government operation and he couldn't talk about it.
	I don't even remember if he said that much.
	Yeah, he did.
	Well, all right.
	We all imagine that anyway.
	But it's the one thing I've never been able to get.
	Actually, never.
	And really, I've pounded at him on that subject, and he doesn't move.
	Well, I also called in and told you I was going to have that analyzed, that stuff on the windshield of the cars at that time.
	I remember that, yeah.
	And I did send it to a lab, and they called you back, and I said, well, they said it was conifer pollen, and you hung up on me, and you said, oh, it was just a jet stream brought in some dirt or dust over from Singapore or somewhere.
	Oh, well, there was a gigantic instance of of dust coming in, yes, out all the way across the Pacific
	from Mongolia.
	Yes, sir, there was that time, but I had told you that I had seen it months prior to that.
	And I had seen red blood cells in it under a microscope.
	Well, yes, we've had reports of red blood cells and blood cells in this stuff.
	Yes, I've heard those reports.
	Well, I'm still seeing it, and it's not summer now, so I know it isn't conifer pollen.
	I'm still seeing it.
	I'm getting it in rainwater when I catch it in a glass.
	I got it on the windshield of the car where there's dust.
	Now, wait a minute.
	You're seeing human red blood cells in rain?
	No, sir.
	I'm seeing like aluminum particles in rainwater.
	You said... I did see red blood cells under the microscope.
	Yes, and the neighbors also saw it.
	Oh, I see.
	All right, all right.
	Well, I appreciate it.
	That's pretty weird to think about, isn't it?
	There's been a lot of speculation about aluminum particles and experimentation.
	with these chemtrails in an effort to cool the Earth down.
	That's one theory.
	And frankly, I like it an awful lot better than hearing about red blood cells in rain.
	That's probably a bad omen.
	Now, I'm not a biologist, and I'm not a scientist of any sort, but right away I know, when I think about it, that red blood cells in raindrops Would be really bad.
	Somehow really bad.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hey, Art.
	Hey, yes.
	Am I on the air?
	If you're not, we're both in trouble.
	I'm sorry.
	I'm sorry.
	Okay.
	Yeah, I am a Bible-believing Christian, and I just wanted to call and reaffirm how important your show is to folks like myself.
	Thank you.
	Uh, basically I was introduced to your show, you know, out of ignorance, having discussions with people about UFOs and vehicles of the Bible and demons and, uh, directed to your show.
	Oh no.
	Oh yes.
	Of course.
	just a bunch of UFO green man stuff. You include so much information. You glean so much info
	from so many different areas. Of course. That it's so, so very important to get this information
	out to people so people can understand what's going on in the world. I understand that people
	have to listen to the show. And a lot of people, you know, they don't. Anyway, listen, we're
	out of break and I'm going to have to go here.
	If you were the devil, what would you do?
	Um, if I was the devil, I guess I would do exactly what it is prophesied that I would do, and that's come to Earth, pretend to be Jesus, and get the world to follow me.
	Okay.
	That sounds good.
	And, uh, I hear that's gonna happen soon.
	And... we return to the, uh...
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, how are you doing?
	Okay, sir, where are you?
	I'm in Washington State.
	Okay.
	The answer to your question, I wanted to give you that and a counterpoint on it.
	Yes.
	Okay, I would go after kids and families.
	Those are the two most obvious things because those are the backbone of our nation.
	Kids, you know, become our future.
	Families support the entire nation.
	Okay, and the counterpoint to that would be what God would do.
	Okay, I would have a living prophet with the armies of missionaries going out and spreading the gospel.
	Well, you'd have a hard time getting him represented properly, because everybody would think he'd be the devil, or the Antichrist, which would be coming first, you know?
	And so, I don't know how you'd sell that one.
	Well, it's happening today, and you're right about what everybody would think.
	I know.
	Okay, I appreciate the call.
	Here's somebody who says they'd get him at grade school.
	Well, I guess, get them while they're young, right?
	Wildcard Lion, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Well Art, if I were the devil, I would instruct my minions to continue their work in interspecies coordination.
	Interspecies coordination? You mean like the big people, that kind of thing?
	Well, that might be another part of what we're talking about.
	Just as a small example, at this time I have a rather interesting creature in the shed.
	In your shed?
	Yes.
	What do you have in your shed?
	It's basically a hybrid.
	It's a low class of a mammal.
	A hybrid what?
	I would be saying we're just talking on the lower rungs of a rat and a squirrel.
	And it's it's come out rather well.
	It's branching out into some of the more creative aspects of what can be accomplished.
	Are you creating monsters in your shed?
	Is that what you are doing?
	No, actually I only became interested in it after I noticed it was in there.
	What a very weird thing.
	Very unusual perhaps.
	But then I would instruct my helpers to work a little bit more on our animal-human transference.
	Pig people is rather corny, if you don't mind me saying.
	Although we might use a heart valve now and then.
	You may think it's corny, but it's not corny at all.
	They're putting human DNA in pigs, ma'am.
	I heard the lady who called yesterday.
	About pig people.
	Yeah, that might be a slight exaggeration right now, but could it happen?
	Yes.
	And even if you don't believe that can happen, then if you listened carefully yesterday to the professor, then you know damn well that there could be a sudden cross-species jump of a virus that would be life-ending on Earth.
	It sort of was rather clear, I thought, about that.
	That continued experimentation in this area could result in that.
	That would be definitely one of the oops factor things we were talking about last night.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Thank you again for taking my call.
	You're welcome.
	If I were the devil... Yeah.
	I would put a big effort into going after the people who have not yet decided what they're going to believe.
	In other words, people on the fence.
	Yes.
	Sure.
	They would be, well, you know, that's what politicians have to do.
	You know, when it gets down to a close election, they have to go down and they have to lobby the people that are on the fence that haven't quite made their decision yet, virtually right up to the moment when the vote is cast.
	Yes.
	And part of my efforts Would be to get them to believe that religious people are stupid.
	And I would do that by getting Blackhead Know-It-All to say a lot of stupid things.
	Yes, actually I could think of some of them that you might be even thinking of yourself right now.
	There have been some remarkably stupid things said by People that we've looked at as religious leaders in recent days, in fact.
	Well, not necessarily the religious leaders, but the religious people that those individuals encounter.
	Well, yeah, but those are the people, sir, that the masses listen to.
	The ones that have access to what?
	The media.
	And they will say something utterly, totally, absolutely outrageous that they generally have to end up apologizing for later.
	And the media readily distributes it, and everybody is shocked.
	Yeah, good point.
	I mean, if you could get religious leaders to say things that would be incredibly disruptive and appear to be very stupid, then what effect would that have on those who had been following them?
	West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello.
	I'm calling from KGMI AM 790 here in Bellingham.
	And I just wanted to let you know what I would do if I was the devil.
	I think if I was the devil, I would take great pleasure in punishing all the people who are evil here on earth and then end up visiting me in the afterlife in hell.
	Well, that part of it, you know, it doesn't exactly make sense.
	Maybe you can help me out with this just a little bit.
	Um, the devil is ticked off at God because he got the big boot and, you know, there's been more ever since, right?
	Pretty much.
	And so the devil's been doing all this bad stuff, we're taught, and God does the good stuff, or tries to.
	You know, it's a good influence.
	The devil's a bad influence, right?
	So if somebody has been particularly bad here on earth, I mean really bad, evil in fact,
	you would think that when he would get down there that, you know, the devil would have
	work for him, not torture because he would have been virtually doing the devil's work
	while he was here.
	So perhaps I might want to reward him.
	Exactly.
	I mean, that is, isn't that a sort of a logical...
	Yes, and that actually kind of ties into my second thought where I thought maybe I could
	create some kind of helpers to come back to earth as kind of a part two of their life.
	They could come back to earth and work in a field that reaches a lot of people such as mass media and I could brainwash people to do more evil through my little helpers.
	You betcha.
	You betcha.
	Better watch out.
	If I'm the devil, we're all in trouble.
	Well, if you are, I'm probably high on your list.
	Thanks, Art.
	You have a good night.
	Yeah, you too.
	Thanks, Art.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yeah, hi.
	My name's Steve.
	Yes, Steve.
	You sound like you're in a barrel.
	Well, hold on.
	Okay.
	Please use first class telephones when calling this show.
	Does that help at all?
	A little bit.
	What are you on?
	Oh, cell phone.
	Cell phone, yeah, naturally.
	Okay.
	Okay, anyways, I just disagree with some of the stuff that you guys have been saying.
	Like what?
	Well, like the whole idea that Satan is in hell, or that's like his little kingdom.
	That's not the way I read it at all in the Bible.
	You don't think so?
	No.
	In fact, it never says anything like that.
	Well, that's not his realm.
	Where is he?
	Used car lots?
	Supermarkets?
	What?
	Okay.
	Here on Earth.
	When he was created, it's in Ezekiel 28, where it says he was created here in Eden, which was maybe somewhere in the Middle East or something like that.
	And then the Garden of Eden was made in the Eastward of Eden, where Adam and Eve was created.
	He never is in hell.
	It's always been a point of his to own or rule this world.
	And that's what he's always been fighting over and trying to control.
	Well, there are many who believe this world is hell.
	Well, that's true, too.
	Some people believe that, but I don't believe that.
	I believe there's another place where people go to hell.
	Do you think it's in the earth, deep down in the bowels of the earth?
	I couldn't say no, but I couldn't say yes either.
	I don't really know.
	Okay, well I take it you've heard my classic recording.
	Now this allegedly, and this was backed up by a major wire service news story, which
	we had on the website, about scientists in what then was the Soviet Union, Siberia, actually
	drilling down to the deepest depth that anyone had ever drilled.
	And the scientists heard noises that they thought were coming from the Soviet Union.
	They lowered microphones into this very deep hole, and they heard things, and they actually made a recording, which allegedly is what I have here.
	And you've got to ask yourself, now, when you're considering the location of hell, you've got to at least consider this evidence.
	Listen very carefully and see if you can discern what it is they recorded, what it is this really is.
	♪♪♪ ♪♪♪
	I'll tell you this, I'll tell you this.
	If I was one of those scientists and I recorded something like that, I'd be covering that sucker up fast.
	We're gonna cement that one up, uh, drop sticks of dynamite into it, cover that hole back up, and don't even think about it again.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hold on.
	Going once.
	Going twice, go on.
	East of Wild-Guard Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, hello.
	I heard it's Keith from Hamilton, Ontario.
	Hello, Keith.
	Oh, hello.
	If I were the devil question, I'd command a bunch of fools and braindead to take over a plane and have them collide with two twin towers, if you know what I mean.
	Well, that seems like such a specific action, you know.
	Yeah, a question for you, um, of these captured Taliban Al-Qaeda, uh, why don't we chain them up and, uh, haul them off to New York and, uh, have them, uh, clear every piece of, uh, ground zero?
	Why don't our firefighters do it and, you know?
	Well...
	They're having enough trouble, it seems to me, right now, with the Taliban, much less turning them loose in New York.
	You know, they're rioting and killing people where they're being held now, so I wouldn't think I'd take them to New York.
	Yeah, I'd just say, like, Chandler, do you think they'd change their mind or they'd thought differently if they'd seen it for themselves?
	No.
	No, I think the experience, and this may be hard for you to consider and hard for everyone to consider, but the emotional experience that we all had, and still have, when we see pictures of that horrible day, you know, when the buildings were hit and then collapsed, and so many dead, and the way it affected this whole nation emotionally, it traumatized the whole nation.
	I think their reaction would be the exact opposite, and I know that's hard to comprehend, but I think that they're the true believers, you know, and they would simply regard it as kind of a holy ground for them, a holy ground where a deed had been done, a bolt of lightning from their God had struck In the evil center of the devilish America, right?
	I mean, wouldn't that be their point of view at Ground Zero?
	Versus ours?
	I think so.
	Well, they did it.
	That's why they did it.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Oh, well, you mean I actually got through?
	It would appear so, yes.
	Where are you?
	Say again?
	Where am I?
	Yes, where are you?
	Oh, good question.
	Okay, I'm...
	I'm in Phoenix, Arizona, and I, you know, I used to live over there, up here in Washington.
	Wasn't that guy just talking about Mel's Hole?
	Um, well, I don't think so, no.
	Or that little recording you had.
	That wasn't Mel's Hole, believe me.
	That was, uh, Bushnikov's Hole.
	Hmm, okay, but I just recalled I had been there in Ellensburg.
	Near Mel's Hole.
	Right.
	I'm calling in response to your question.
	What would I recommend to the devil at this point?
	No, no, no.
	You got it wrong.
	Rephrase it.
	Go ahead.
	What would you do if you were the devil?
	Oh, golly.
	I know this sounds nuts.
	And I'm not sure there's any provision for this, but I would repent.
	I mean, it sounds... No, you wouldn't.
	You're not?
	No, see, I asked everybody to put themselves in the shoes of the devil.
	Now, see, you're not doing that.
	Oh!
	You're not doing that.
	You're, you're, you're, you're... I couldn't call if I did... I couldn't call.
	I've wanted to call for so long.
	If only I got something I can respond to.
	Yeah, but you're not responding to it.
	My question is specifically... Oh, my God.
	Hmm.
	I've gotta... Well, can I talk about my cat, then?
	Yes, you may talk about your... Okay, you just... What about your cat?
	Hmm?
	I mean, I've always had cats.
	I love cats since I was little.
	His name is Shamu.
	And he... Why would you name a cat with a whale's name?
	Because of his coloring.
	You know, he's got a classic black and white combination.
	And then this cute spot on his nose.
	And my husband hates him even though it was originally his cat.
	I see.
	Well, he is now your familiar.
	Right?
	Now you're familiar.
	Look it up.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Mr. Bell.
	Uh, this is the worst cell phone connection yet.
	You get the worst cell phone connection award, sir.
	Thank you very much.
	You're very welcome.
	Where are you?
	Uh, I'm actually driving back to Chicago from... I'm in Indiana right now.
	Okay.
	Uh, no, I'm just calling.
	Like, I've listened to your show.
	It's the first time I've ever called into a radio station.
	Yes.
	And I just, um...
	I've got a little background in biology and astronomy, and from an evolutionary standpoint, I just don't buy that we have ever been visited by UFOs or any extra-terrestrial beings like that.
	I think a lot of people have a tendency to think that intelligence is an end point in But if you look at most creatures on the Earth, the ones that have succeeded the most in evolution are insects, things like cockroaches, and I don't think that there's going to be this vast amount of extraterrestrial intelligence out there in the universe.
	Okay, I appreciate the call, and I understand the way you feel, and there are many, many people who would certainly agree with you.
	Not, by the way, Sam Donaldson, though, who thinks we're going to get contact this year.
	I may get Sam Donaldson on the air.
	There's some indication Sam might want to come on the program.
	He likes radio and he made a pretty wild statement about what's going to come up this year.
	You know, E.T.
	contact.
	Maybe we'll get him on.
	Yes, indeed, it is.
	If you were his darkness, the man himself, What would you do?
	You were the devil.
	What would you do?
	A want?
	Would you preach love?
	Would it all be a lie?
	Or would it be the truth?
	What a sound that is, huh?
	Haven't you ever wondered why I like this sound so much?
	First time calling the line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi, how are you?
	I'm just fine.
	And where are you?
	I'm calling from Lincoln, Nebraska, and I'm listening to you at KFAB.
	Excellent radio station.
	Yes, it is.
	Yes, ma'am.
	I just wanted to comment on the Satan thing.
	I literally went face-to-face with him.
	You met Satan?
	Oh, yes.
	It happened 15 years ago, and it's It's just something you just never ever forget.
	How did this meeting occur?
	Well, my ex-husband was an alcoholic.
	And we'd been going through some very trying times, obviously.
	Sure.
	And I had come home from work late one night, and there he was.
	I could smell the alcohol when I walked in the room, the bedroom.
	And I put my purse down on the on the dresser and I was mumbling you know kind of just
	disgusted and I turned around and you know like in the movie um Bram Stoker's Dracula yes how he comes
	up and elevates off the bed absolutely this is what he did and I turned around and he was
	literally stiff and came came up to I mean, face to face with him.
	No, no, I...
	Let's see if I'm understanding correctly.
	Was this your husband, your drunken husband, now ex-husband?
	Yes.
	Becoming the devil?
	Yes.
	Coming up out of a drunken state and becoming the devil?
	Yes.
	The room was very, very dark and I couldn't even see him when I walked in and then there was this kind of an orangey glow and his eyes were bright, shining red.
	It was piercing red.
	It was like laser beams.
	Very bad, yes.
	Oh my gosh.
	Needless to say, I was absolutely and totally petrified.
	All of a sudden, everything kind of went blank.
	I just stood there and this unbelievable power came over me.
	I've always had faith and I've always believed.
	I've never been a real religious person.
	All of a sudden this power came over me and he came straight at me and I said, you have no power over me.
	You know it.
	I know it.
	You cannot hurt me, but I can hurt you.
	All these things came out of my mouth that I was saying.
	I was quoting things.
	Did you end up hitting him with a frying pan?
	No, no.
	He literally dropped.
	He just dropped onto the bed and was weeping just uncontrollably.
	So your words lashed him to submission?
	Exactly.
	I see.
	Did he keep drinking?
	Well, I left him.
	Well, I certainly appreciate the story.
	It's a personal exorcism, I guess.
	Somehow I imagine that she had whacked him with something, you know, like Lizzie Borden, and used that as a defense in court.
	Everything you just heard her say.
	Do you think it would have worked?
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yeah, good morning, Art.
	It's Steven in Evansville, Indiana.
	Yes, sir.
	You had said something about synchronicity or something to that effect where you see the same time numbers over and over again.
	Yeah, we've talked quite a bit about synchronicity.
	Yeah, I've always, I've missed that show.
	Could you tell me what does that mean and how would that affect a person's life?
	I mean, I realize that doesn't have anything to do with that show, but could you give me some idea on that?
	Well, what are you experiencing?
	Well, I see the same numbers like 12-12 come up and 7-13 and 4-20.
	These times always come up at the... I mean, I never fail to look at the clock when it's at that particular time and it always surprises me when I see that and I was just curious, what does that mean?
	What were those numbers again?
	12, 12.
	12, 12.
	Yes.
	7, 13.
	7, 13.
	And 4, 20.
	4, 20.
	Oh, that's an important one.
	4, 20.
	Well, it probably means you're going to meet a very beautiful buxom blonde.
	I have no idea what it means, sir.
	You know, we've talked about synchronicity, to be honest with you, and I I understand the term, I understand what it means, but I don't even have a clue how it fits into the scheme of life.
	I really don't.
	So the answer is I don't know.
	Is there a book or anything on this that you know of?
	Yes.
	Many people have written on synchronicity and I've had guests who have talked about it, but I wouldn't give you any specific recommendation.
	Go to the library, look up Synchronicity as a subject material, and you go learn what you can and call me back.
	Oh, thanks.
	You know, I was wondering about those people who are burning the Harry Potter books.
	Oh, yes.
	How many of them are letting their kids go out dressed up for Halloween?
	Probably not very many.
	I bet there are none.
	Those are the kind of people who would say, you're not going out there and participating in that evil, evil night.
	Right?
	Yeah, it doesn't surprise me none.
	I'm sure they make them stay home.
	Well, Happy New Year and keep up the great shows you have, OK?
	Thanks, sir, and take care.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, this is Elena from Connecticut.
	Connecticut?
	Yeah, and this is a buxom blonde who won't like what I have to say.
	Oh, that's alright.
	If I'm supposed to be the devil.
	Right.
	Well, yeah, I'm asking what you would do if you were the devil.
	I have too many ideas.
	Um, I would come, you know, up to the surface as this beautiful, shining goddess.
	Mm-hmm.
	And, um... Buzzing blonde?
	Yeah, oh yeah, like aura all around me and everybody would worship me.
	At least all the guys.
	Well, yeah, see, what I would do is I'd sort of, um, like, farm them and clone men and have, like, a ranch.
	A ranch of old men?
	Yeah, like, some of them would be laborers, but then some I would party with.
	Like, the ones that were like, um... You're kind of like the feminist that called earlier.
	Really?
	Like, yeah, like... She said she built herself as a satanic feminist.
	Oh, she was crazy.
	Whoa!
	And you're just riding on level ground there, aren't you?
	Yeah, because... With your man farm.
	Yeah I'd have like strapping road workers and stuff that you know I kind of party with but um then you know also um the rest of the world I'd like to have them ruled by fundamentalists whether Christian or Muslim or whatever and I'd take away all music and art and um I would just have it all down in hell.
	All music would go and the only place you could get music would be hell?
	Yeah, because I'd be enjoying it with my man form.
	With your man form.
	And she casts a stone at the Satanic Feminist.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey Eric, how's it going?
	Well, you heard the last call.
	Yeah.
	I figured that if I'm finally getting ready and somebody comes up and wants me to open this gate.
	I just want to say, if I were the devil, what I would do is pretty much what... Have you read Terry Pratchett and some of the other guys, The Good Omens?
	No.
	Oh, it's hysterical.
	We talked about the apocalypse and all those other junk but it's essentially how evil in
	this book, how evil kind of perpetuates itself.
	It starts out with small things like the worst freeway system in the world and radiates out.
	The devil in this book really doesn't have to do very much.
	He just starts something small and people take it from there and people are far more
	creative I think than even the devil is and doing things that are bad.
	I wonder if history has shown that.
	So then really his work here is very, very easy because our proclivities, our natural proclivities lean in his direction anyway.
	I think, yeah, I think that every day we face a battle between whether or not we're going You know, be good people and cheerful people and be nice to each other.
	Or if we're going to be snooty and just bad-tempered and foul-minded.
	Yes.
	And that's my opinion.
	I got to open this gate.
	Nice talking to you.
	Nice talking to you and have a non-snooty day.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, how are you doing, Mr. Bill?
	I'm doing all right, sir.
	Where are you?
	My name is Brother Bill and I'm calling from Chicago.
	Brother Bill.
	Yeah, just to be informal.
	Okay.
	First of all, I'd like to say God bless you for your endeavor to seek truth.
	And I'd just like to touch on a couple of things right quick on the surface.
	Okay.
	One, you had a caller say you asked him where hell was according to the Bible.
	Yeah.
	Hell is related to it in the bible as being in the center of the earth in Ephesians the fourth chapter.
	I see.
	It relates to he that ascended into the heavens first descended into the lower parts of the earth to take captivity captive.
	There you are.
	We can also go back into the Old Testament when Moses prayed to God and it said the earth
	opened itself up and swallowed them into the pit.
	That's right.
	Which was the lower parts of the earth.
	Those were the people who were having orgies and glorifying the golden calf and everything.
	Yeah, the idols, yeah, that whole thing.
	Sure.
	But what I wanted to allude to, maybe my little bit of wisdom the Lord has blessed me with
	in these few years can bless some people that are looking for some truth.
	We first have to understand one thing.
	There's only two sources of knowledge and power in this universe aside from the natural knowledge of man.
	That is the natural source of knowledge either coming from Satan or coming from God.
	Alright, but you admit that there is knowledge and power from both sources.
	Oh, yes.
	There's a knowledge and power from both sources, but only one is supreme.
	One is being allowed to reign and rule on the earth right now, according to the prophecies and the six and seven days of man and God.
	I understand fully.
	Thank you very much.
	CZ, most of those who have called have really felt that he's doing a pretty good job with what he's doing right now.
	That they really wouldn't make any changes.
	Isn't that pretty interesting?
	Most people think that the effort on his Darkness' part is right on the money.
	Right on schedule.
	A wild card line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Good morning Art.
	Good morning.
	Yeah, I certainly agree with you.
	I think people have perception there.
	I mean, there's some obvious things.
	The first thing would be, of course, the deception.
	He would preach the doctrine that there is no devil.
	He would degrade Christ.
	Well, in that case, he's winning because a lot of people who call here think that the whole concept of the devil, and in fact, a lot of the new agers that I interview, I'm absolutely, certainly convinced there is no devil.
	There is only white light and good.
	No bad down there.
	Right?
	So there is no such thing as a devil.
	In fact, several people have said exactly that tonight.
	I remember one particular gentleman.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello, Art.
	How you doing?
	I'm alright.
	I'm calling from Milton Fallon, Missouri, right outside George Murray's.
	Yes sir.
	KTRS?
	Yes sir.
	If I were Lucifer the Devil, whatever you want to call him, I would recruit more book burners.
	Because if you remember back, he recruited Hitler, and look at the hay buck that he caught.
	They burned a bunch of books, didn't they?
	Yeah, and I'm an M.I.D.
	man too.
	You claim to be MIB?
	Yeah, I'm a man in bed.
	Man in bed, man in bed.
	Hey, Art?
	Yes?
	When you were in Okinawa, what was the call letters for your station?
	You mean my ham station or the commercial station?
	Did you work for a commercial station there?
	Yes, I did.
	KSBK?
	KSBK.
	KSBK.
	Of course.
	That's 46 years ago.
	I was stationed over there.
	I used to listen to them.
	In fact, one day when we had a day off, we went up to the Uh, Ryukyu Hosou, we were, and we were up, uh, I think, I can't remember, second or third floor, second floor, I think.
	And, uh, no, third floor.
	And, uh, or even more.
	Um, and, uh, yes, it was, uh, it was an awesome time.
	We were the only commercial broadcast station in the whole Far East.
	Yep.
	That was no small matter.
	Yeah, they shut them down one day.
	They came on with an emergency.
	They said, we have to go off the air.
	They found an unexploded thousand pound bomb right in their vicinity.
	Well, I mean, yes, thank you.
	There were, you know, a lot of things about living on that island that were really different and there was a lot of ordinance, as you know, on that island because the invasion of Okinawa was bloody and difficult and costly in terms of American lives.
	So there was ordinance all over the place found all the time still being found as a matter of fact.
	Well to the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Enjoy your program very much.
	Thank you.
	If I was the devil, I would get rid of love, compassion and caring.
	Love, compassion and caring?
	All of the above.
	Well, if that is in fact what the devil is doing right now, how do you think he's doing?
	I mean, If you were to have a scorecard here, how do you think he's doing?
	Well, I'd say he's batting considerably well as we see what's happening, what's going on around the world.
	Exactly.
	And it shows.
	Maybe that'll just be a sort of a temporary occurrence, or maybe if good people do nothing and presume that it'll all unfold as is suggested in the Bible, then they'll be wrong, and his batting average, you know, he'll just keep knocking them right out of the park.
	If you destroyed good, there would be really nothing left but all the bad and negative, and he could sit back and Watch the evil destroy itself.
	Just watch CNN.
	That's a major possibility.
	I appreciate your call, sir.
	Thank you very much.
	Take care.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	If I was the devil, I would be a writer.
	A writer?
	Oh yeah, I would write a book with full of contradiction, absurdities and all that, and make people compelled to believe in it.
	What kind of book would it be?
	Oh, it would be a big book.
	Actually, I would write about three or four of them.
	Uh-huh.
	And all the believers of each of the books would be all against each other.
	In other words, you would conquer and divide.
	Oh yeah.
	Yeah, actually, people would be compelled to believe in those books, even though they would be full of crazy stuff.
	I mean, absurdities and contradictions and things like that.
	And what kind of books would these be?
	Oh, actually, one would be the Koran.
	The other one would be the Bible.
	You raise actually a very good point because with these various books there has been more killing in the name of all that is written and believed in these various books than any other books ever published anywhere ever in the history of the world.
	Yeah, and the bad devil.
	You really are.
	You may be the best devil of the night, and I highly appreciate your call.
	I've got to go.
	Okay.
	Maybe the devil drives a truck, huh?
	One more thing.
	Yeah, I do.
	Actually, I would also stop all the stem cell research.
	Look, tell everybody good night.
	Show's over.
	Good night, everybody.
	Oh, where are you?
	Well, I'm in Ohio, but I'm a French-Canadian from Quebec.
	Oh, are you really?
	Yep.
	All right, well, reach over there and give me a good blast on the horn.
	Well, I'm parked right now, and I can't do it.
	I know, you'd wake the others up.
	All right, well, thank you.

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