Dr. Randy Eaton reveals orcas near Washington’s Olympic Peninsula may strand due to illness or pollution, not instinct, citing a 1970s case where whale Haida died in captivity despite claims. He later describes telepathic encounters with orcas, including one that "knew what he was doing." Art Bell’s callers speculate the devil would exploit materialism, suppress dissent, or manipulate religious texts—like burning Harry Potter books while forbidding Halloween—to sow division. A Nebraska caller claims a literal Satanic encounter, while others joke about fundamentalist regimes and cloning. Bell concludes that human nature, not supernatural forces, fuels chaos, yet acknowledges the devil’s potential role as a divisive writer or truck driver. Meanwhile, he dismisses UFO sightings as misidentified aircraft but hints at Sam Donaldson’s predicted alien contact. [Automatically generated summary]
We're going to do mainly open lines all night long tonight.
However, in this first hour, I do have a late booking because of something that's going on.
There's this whale that keeps beaching himself, wanting to commit suicide.
His mate did that, and now he's trying to do it himself.
And so we're going to try and find out what's going on, where it's going on, and why.
For 20 years, from 1976 through 1996, Dr. Randy Eaton studied orca whales, so he'd be the right guy to ask, right?
He and his research volunteers actually befriended wild orcas.
His video, Orca, the Sacred Whale, and his book, The Orca Project, a meeting of the nations, examined the unique behavior of orca whales and their exceptional relationship with human beings across time and space.
Dr. Eden's communications have appeared everywhere from science and evolution to Sports Illustrated and Magical Blend.
He's been interviewed in Sports Illustrated, Saturday Review, Omni, the L.A. Times, Washington Post, and so forth.
Gave a speech on ecological problems in the U.S. that was broadcast by CBS-TV National News and PBS Nova.
Interviewed him about endangered species.
Dr. Eaton has held faculty positions in zoology, psychology, humanities, the University of Washington, University of Georgia, Florida Atlantic University, and so forth.
Winner of two national book awards as well as numerous writing and film awards, he would be the right man to ask about what's going on, and we will shortly.
I would like to welcome a new, yet another new affiliate, KMNS, 620 on the dial in Sioux City, Iowa.
Good to be on in Sioux City, Iowa.
Thank you very much.
The GM there, Rick Schwartz, and the ops director, Rich Zaber.
Very, very happy to be on the network.
And getting you in the third show of 2002 as we continue to collect new affiliates.
Great to be on in Sioux City.
The nation's middle.
A lot of times you want to go to places like that, find out to take the temperature of the nation, if you will, and that's a good thing to do here.
You know, a lot of times the people on one coast or another are thinking one thing, but if you go straight into middle America, you get a pretty good quick average without, you know, having to talk to everybody from everywhere.
So great to have you.
Sioux City, we will depend on taking your temperature from time to time on various issues, maybe even this one.
Now, I may or may not open a special line later.
I have a couple of thoughts of my own.
But if anybody would like to fast blast their idea for a special line tonight, you're welcome to do that between now and the time we begin having open lines next hour.
So that's the story.
In a moment, we're going to find out why a whale is wanting apparently to commit suicide.
So in other words, by the time they got there, there wasn't one, but two.
unidentified
That's correct.
And there were some earlier rumors, no one's confirmed this, that before any of the strandings were actually observed, there was also a baby orca that had accompanied these two adult orcas, but there's been no sightings of a young orca since the actual strandings were seen.
Now, since then, why do you call them strandings, by the way?
To me, it's suicide.
unidentified
Well, it's a matter of interpretation, of course, you know.
The scientists who typically work with cetaceans, the whales and dolphins, have given different ideas on why these creatures go ashore, why they put their bodies out of the water onto the beach.
And they try to come up with all kinds of explanations, and it may be that none of them are mutually exclusive.
For example, pilot whales often beach off the certain coast of northeastern North America.
And they think that perhaps this has to have something to do with polarities in the surface of the Earth that throw them off on their movements.
I mean, it doesn't account for the fact that Yeah, as we know that if we go underwater and don't come back up, we drown and die.
Right.
And it's, you know, that's just a basic survival sort of thing that even a whale would understand, in my opinion.
unidentified
Well, there's no doubt about it.
And so I looked for a long time, basically, for an explanation as to why any whale at any time would actively put itself on the beach, because these aren't animals that just sort of get washed up there based on actual observations by many people around the world for decades.
In most of these cases, the individual literally actively places itself on the beach.
And this has happened recently in Dutch and S. Bay with this male, who's still alive.
They've often drugged these individuals off the beach when they stranded themselves, and they swim right back onto the beach.
One, when a whale hits the beach, surfaces, on land, how long can it live?
unidentified
Well, it depends on the species.
The really larger species are going to live less time because the weight of their body is going to smash their internal organs the longer they're out of water.
So it's a matter of the animal.
The orcas are fairly well built to withstand being out of water for a fairly long period of time.
Yeah, just from the weight of its own body, eventually killing it.
Maybe less, but that's a pretty long period compared to, say, a great baleen whale, which probably can't stand being out of water for more than a few hours.
Okay, so when they arrived there, Doctor, was the female already dead or was the female?
unidentified
Yes, you're right, Art.
The female was dead.
The male has continued to try, this is yesterday, continued through yesterday to try to strand itself.
And they would drag it off using ropes, and then they started using a slightly different contraption today with some success.
The news reports would indicate that the male didn't seem to be able to find his way out of this bay where there's a spit.
I find that very difficult to believe.
Orcas are excellent navigators of the sea.
They know where they are, when they are there, and how to get back to a place that they entered, and so on and so forth.
So my guess is that this male orca, and certainly other local researchers have come to the same conclusion because they understand orca society, surely this male is closely related to that female and probably is not its mate, but probably its son.
The adult male orcas, even the great big ones with the five, six foot tall dorsal fins, are really the sons of the females of the orca pod.
And they spend their whole lives helping their mothers raise other young.
So my guess is this is its son, although that can't be confirmed yet, but it's probable based on their behavior.
Now, the thing is that it's not very common for orcas to strand.
That's the kind of peculiar thing here.
It's fairly common for pilot whales.
It's fairly common for sperm whales and many others.
And we can associate strandings with things like old parasitic infections of the brain or the internal ear.
Was there anything physically askew with the female that died?
unidentified
Nobody knows yet.
They haven't.
They've cut off the head of the female and they've taken it for necropsy, but I don't think any results are in at this time.
There's a chance, based upon a lot of observations and analyses over the last several years, that this female died from some kind of pollution.
We don't know that for sure, but PCBs have been a very serious killer of orca whales recently in that region.
They outlawed them in 72, but these industrial lubricants are still in the system, and they're working their way through the food chain.
They're called polychlorinated biphenyls.
And they mimic, biotemically, they mimic the orcas' own body's hormones.
And as a consequence, it screws up their whole endocrine system.
And the real culprit, though, at least is locally.
Now, here's the thing.
These are transient orcas.
They are not the local resident orcas that live in Puget Sound.
These are two individuals that do not belong to those three well-known social groups of Puget Sound who recently have been afflicted with PCBs in combination with the shortage of food supply.
Over the last two years, I think 11 adult males of these three societies, three orcas societies that live year-round in that area have died as a consequence of that.
Overfishing for many years for the commercial industry, deforestation causing fouling of the waters in which the orcas, I mean, in which the salmon spawn, a whole range of factors have contributed to the fact that during certain months or certain phases of the year, certain times of the year, there aren't salmon runs when there used to be salmon running virtually all year long.
Now some of those salmon runs have dropped out, for all practical purposes, to zero.
That leaves the orcas without food, at least their primary and their preferred food supply.
That then means that the adult males who are babysitters for their mothers, helping their mothers raise young, I think, have been foregoing feeding themselves and letting the youngsters feed instead.
As a consequence, they cannibalize their own fat tissues to feed themselves, and that means that the PCBs have been activated because they've been stored into body fat.
And then they enter the system and those orcas die.
And that's why the adult male orcas of these societies are dying as compared to the rest of the members of the population.
But the two orcas that we're talking about tonight are not members of those local societies.
They are the transient orcas that feed primarily on marine mammals.
And they range all the way from southeast Alaska down to Baja California.
Now, the thing is that feeding on marine mammals, as they do, or tend to, they also eat fish, they're picking up more pollutants than the resident orcas of Puget Sound, which tend never to eat marine mammals, but rely primarily on fish.
So when you eat marine mammals, of course, the accumulation of things like mercury and PCBs are exaggerated because the marine mammals that the orcas are feeding on have been feeding on fish that have those pollutants in their bodies, and so it's magnified and it works into the transient orcas' bodies and they suffer for it.
So we don't know why they died yet, but there's a real high probability that it's some kind of pollution in the marine system.
But of course he just kept, what, re-beaching himself?
unidentified
Yep, he just kept re-beaching himself.
And the thing is that, you know, over the years people have done their best, and they have the highest of intentions, certainly, of believing that these creatures don't know what they're doing.
And they haul them off, they'll pull them off, even using big ships.
They'll take sperm whales and pull them off beaches in places like New Zealand or wherever, even in India.
And the whales will go back on the beach.
And in some cases, it's pathetic, but in a way also comical, that one sperm whale in India was pulled off the same beach five times, and he finally moved further up the coast and then beat himself there and died.
And so we don't know if this male orchid that they now have back out in the deep water will simply go someplace else.
Well, remember, human beings from time to time, Doctor, wander off the land into the sea, walk out into the surf, and drown.
unidentified
Yeah, that's right.
They do.
And you see, I wrote a theory on the evolution of burial practices in humans, and I turned it around and applied it to strandings in whales.
And my theory is that the same basic reasons for a whale putting itself out of the sea onto land applies, and that is that you prevent the communication of disease, including parasites, to your survivors and to your kin by getting your body out of the water, if that's what's afflicting you.
And the second thing is that you don't want your body to be free food for those creatures out there in your world that might turn around after feeding on your dead body and decide to try to eat some of the living versions, some of your survivors.
In the same way that we put people six feet underground so that bears can't easily dig them up and then, because after eating a dead human, they're more likely to eat a live one.
The same could apply, say, for whales and sharks in the sea.
If you let 100 different sharks feed upon your 40-ton body, if you're a great whale, those sharks are far more likely to attack a small member of your species after that.
So I think the same reasons apply, and that is that it makes perfect sense to me that if, in fact, an orca or another whale is dying or seriously ill or has a communicable disease, it's perfectly sensible that it might remove its body from the ocean.
So I think that in this case, either the male is also diseased and or polluted seriously and it's trying to strand itself to die, or and I can't tell you.
That, though, you know, it implies some kind of seemingly something like a decision-making process, or is such a thing just simply instinctual?
unidentified
Oh, I don't think it's instinctual at all.
I think it's an individual decision.
I think it's a very intelligent decision.
And in the same way that humans under similar circumstances would come to a similar kind of decision.
If you knew, for example, that you had a highly dangerous communicable disease, you would be likely to behave similarly.
And someone couldn't turn around afterwards and say, well, he really didn't know what he was doing, you know, and so on.
I don't think that applies to these creatures.
All the evidence indicates that those that strand themselves, in fact, have good reasons to do so.
As far as their ability to make decisions, my gosh, everything we know about the members of the dolphin family, of which the orca is one, indicate that they're highly intelligent creatures.
They have all the problem-solving abilities that we humans do.
I have no doubt that they have all the mental capacities in the world to come to that kind of decision for very good reason.
Do you think they have that kind of decision-making capability, or do you think it's an instinctual thing they do?
And if it is, is it an instinct that when we have, I mean, when we have it, we say, oh, it's wrong.
You know, life is precious.
You can't just take your own life like that.
You know, the climate change that we're going through right now, and you'll notice I say climate change, we're going through as opposed to what we might be doing.
I think we're well into it.
This hour's Associated Press says the brush fires or bushfires raging now in Australia.
It's horrible.
You have no idea.
It's horrible.
They've killed or injured thousands of koalas.
Further stressing the National Icon's fragile population wildlife experts were saying Friday that koala populations already are threatened by human development.
Many of those populations will be simply eliminated drastically by the fires burning across New South Wales.
The weather across the world is really weird.
It might even have something to do with all of this.
I have no idea.
Doctor?
unidentified
Well, I happen to read your book on Superstorm, Mark.
And I'm a believer that we're looking at another example of the human folly of the great love affair with technology.
I believe that if I were to write an important book in the next year, it would be about going back to the Stone Age.
A lot of people say, well, we can't go back, meaning that we've bought this whole mega-tech philosophy that the only way we're going to continue to solve the problems that technology virtually creates for us is more technology.
My guess is that we're on a dead-end course as far as technology goes.
I think it's going to lead us, frankly, right down to our knees.
And I don't think that we'll find technological solutions for the kinds of problems, the global problems we're looking at now, which include what you just mentioned in Australia.
I also, a year ago or more, I interviewed some people in Hawaii.
And at that time, the Navy was blasting this incredibly loud sonar at the whales there, or into what are in the presence or nearby the whales.
And I had all kinds of people, Greenpeace and others, who were actually out there trying to put a stop to all of this.
And the Navy was saying that it wasn't bothering the whales one bit.
Now, I understand that in the last week or two, the Navy suddenly admitted, actually admitted that what they were doing might indeed have injured or killed whales.
Is that correct?
unidentified
Well, the whale researchers, and we're not talking just about bleeding hearts here that might belong to Greenpeace or whatever that don't really know any better.
The actual whale researchers who've been on site where they've done these tests have reported direct damage, even deaths, and incredible pain and internal damages and so on.
I don't think they can hold that position much longer.
There's just too much evidence to the contrary.
Right.
Well, that's good.
In a way, I hope that contributes to getting that program shut down.
On to this, you asked these questions about suicide, and I thought I should throw in a couple things.
In our previous talks, I mentioned to you that in Puget Sound, for a number of years, they captured all the orcas for the world's aquariums from the mid-60s to the mid-70s.
And I happened to run into Jerry Brown, an Athabascan Indian who was the head diver on all those capture efforts during that decade.
And he showed me the movies which he took of every single capture of orca whales in that 10-year period.
And I had my mind blown when I looked at it because when they finally got the orcas inside of the nets, big sane nets, and sometimes they failed completely in an effort that took several days and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, but when they finally had a few pursed up in the net and they lowered these steel capture cages down in the water,
I saw divers jump in the water, swim over to an orca, which is the world's largest living predator, and certainly can kill anything in and around the sea with impunity.
Here's a 200-pound man swims over and puts his hand on the pectoral fin of an orca and guides it into the steel capture cage.
Now at that point, that in itself is absolutely astounding to me.
Obviously the orca is going along with this.
It's never been touched by a human, surely, prior to that date, that moment, and would go into the capture cage.
Now they lifted some of the orcas out.
This is how they would separate the orcas they wanted to keep, which were primarily youngsters, from the orcas they wanted to release.
And they would leave the ones inside the net that they wanted to keep and send off to some aquarium.
Well, some of the orcas, when they got inside that steel capture cage, even though they didn't resist the diver at all whatsoever that led him into it, would let their air out, drop to the bottom of the cage, and be dead within a matter of seconds.
What?
Yes.
And they would hide the evidence, frankly.
The capture team did for a number of years.
This all came out later in the middle 70s when there were protests against any more captures in Puget Sound of Orcas, which was finally ended.
Just let their air out, drop to the bottom, and die.
unidentified
Sink to the bottom, they're dead.
Bingo.
And so clearly they were not being forced underwater.
Clearly, they were not punctured.
Clearly they're not wounded.
Clearly, this was a volitional thing.
They made the decision, you know, I'm out of here.
Now, some other orcas, obviously, didn't do that.
Some of those other orcas were eventually put into that same steel capture cage and lifted up out of the water, not released, but put onto a boat and taken to a plane and so on and so forth.
And right after that show, I got a call from Teresa St. John, a woman who used to work with John Lilly, as a whale psychic.
I didn't take it too seriously at first, even though I had, as I've explained to you in previous shows, psychic communications with orca whales, which really turned my whole life around, from being a hardcore Newtonian type scientist to somebody who had revised his whole view of reality.
But anyway, she called up and told me, she said, well, I had an experience back with a whale named Haida up at the SeaWorld Aquarium, that's our Sea Land, they call it Sea Land Aquarium in Victoria, British Columbia.
And I said, well, tell me about that.
She said, well, I got this message from an orca that it didn't want to be released.
Why had they made the decision to release curiosity?
unidentified
No, that's a perfectly good question.
The owner, and this is much to his credit, I think, the owner felt that even though that orca, that particular orca, Haida, was definitely his bread and butter, the biggest attraction by far at his aquarium, that he felt that he had so much admiration for Haida and for other orcas, he felt it was right to release him.
He had the right intentions, no doubt.
The problem was that, according to Teresa St. John, he didn't want to go.
And she told him that.
And he listened, but he didn't take her seriously.
The next day, they came in to release him out into the sound, and he was dead in his pool.
Wow.
Yeah.
And so I had independently, without knowing any of this until 98, had written a story, which was published in my Orca book and previously in another magazine, about his death.
Well, they didn't give any reason for his death and didn't have any explanation.
But I had known him.
I and my students had studied him and worked with him and observed him.
And in an essay I wrote, I said, well, you know, it's just possible that he committed suicide, even though we as humans can't, you know, don't give animals the credit for having any kind of mental or intellectual capacities that could lead to that kind of decision.
And so that, in a way, you know, I felt that maybe that's what he did do.
And then when she had received this message and actually warned the aquarium, and then in fact he was found dead the next day, well, you can see the kind of conclusion I drew.
Yeah, well, but for that conclusion, you have to imagine that the whale is telepathic or something.
unidentified
Yes, you do.
And the thing is that all the peoples around the world who've lived closely with these kind of creatures for millennia hold them in the highest possible regard for a reason.
And, you know, the Macaul Whalers of Puget Sound to this day say that orca whales are one step above God.
That's the most incredible accolade ever given to a non-human creature or to any being on earth.
There's never been another society known that's ever described any creature as being above God.
I think they believe it because they know the orca extremely well.
They've been living side by side with them day in and day out for thousands of years.
The macaw are whalers.
The orcas that often came into contact with them were whalers, so to speak, catching other whales.
And then there was, of course, the local types, the resident orcas in Puget Sound, which were catching salmon, which the macaw also caught.
I think when they were spending so much time with them that over the years, they observed them, they realized that there were many situations in which orca whales could have killed them for competing with them for prey.
There's all kinds of mythology up and down the northwest coast and from society to society it's the same story.
You know, I wonder really how important whales are.
Do you remember a Star Trek movie, I think it was, where there was this horrible machine of destruction on its way to Earth.
And the only thing that was going to prevent it was the sound, a whale sound.
And it kept looking for this whale sound minus the whale sound.
This alien race had decided that there was no further reason for Earth to exist, that it had failed.
And that the whales were actually the reason that the aliens had any interest in the planet at all.
Of course, they had to go back in time and get a whale and bring it forward and the whale sound and save the Earth and all the rest of that.
But it was kind of interesting.
How important do you think whales are?
unidentified
Well, there's an ancient theory and a very recent theory which really converge.
The ancient Native American point of view is that an agreement was made between the orcas as rulers of the sea, as the dominant creature of all the oceans of the world, and the humans on land to steward the earth.
On the other hand, I have a good friend who received a higher guidance vision, if you will, that the seas of the world must be held silent for a day at least, so that the energetic fabric of the earth could be repaired, and that the whales would participate in that process using their sounds to do that.
That there's some kind of acoustic necessity, if you will, for the integrity of the earth itself to be maintained.
Now, I can't tell you that that's so or not.
I can tell you this, that I spent a lot of time working with Native Americans.
They know these creatures far better than we do, or far better than we ever will.
They've been part and parcel of their lives for millennia.
And I listen to what they have to say.
I take them seriously.
From their point of view, the orca is spiritually the most evolved creature of the oceans of the world.
How did you get from a man of straight heart science to where you are now?
And where you are now is a million miles away.
I mean, you believe in communication with whales.
You've had communication with whales.
You're in a whole different place spiritually.
You've undergone a total transformation in what you believe.
How did that happen to you?
unidentified
I was two weeks into my first study on orca whales back in 76 up on the San Juan Island.
And I was observing these two orcas carefully that were held in a cove.
They were going to be released soon with radio transmitters on their fins.
I was left all alone there finally after all the news people and the sheriff's deputies and the National Marine Fisheries people were coming and going constantly.
These two orcas swam straight around right by me, right next to the rock I was on.
They rolled onto their sides very slowly, one after the other.
They looked at me with their eyes above water, right into my eye, and at a distance of about seven feet, I got this telepathic message.
And it was this, we know what you're doing, and it's okay.
How sure are you that what you received really came from these whales, really just wasn't some sort of manufactured something or another in your own brain?
unidentified
Well, all I can tell you is that I have total conviction about the experience, that I'd never taken acid up to that point in my life.
I'd never even read a John Lilly book, and so on and so forth.
I was pretty straight-nosed about my science, and I was there simply collecting data.
But that event turned my life around, and it wasn't long after that, actually, that I went to the Victoria Aquarium, where Haida was, because I was just so excited about orca whales at that point.
I wanted to learn everything I could about them.
And I had a similar kind of experience there, really.
There was probably 100 people packed in around his pool.
He was already starting his performance, if you will.
The trainer had him partway beats at the end of the pool and was showing everybody his teeth, as they often do in these aquarium shows.
I squeezed in between a couple people on the opposite side of where he was with his trainer.
This moment I squeezed in between these two people, now you must understand that I'm holding an incredible passion, if you will, about orcas at this point after what I'd experienced in the San Juan Islands.
And I was in a state of bliss just to be near an orca whale.
I didn't say anything.
I didn't do anything different than anybody else, but that orca broke out of his performance, swam straight across the pool, came up out of the water, held himself up out of the water with his fluke, and squirted a fine spray of water over my face.
The only person he squirted in the audience.
Now, afterwards, the trainer came up to me.
Then he went back and completed his show.
And afterwards, the trainer came to me and said, why did he do that to you?
I mean, he knew that orca very, very well.
And we started a wonderful friendship at that point and eventually did a lot of work with him and with Haida 2.
And I simply told him, I said, you know, I had these experiences with orca whales.
Somehow he was sensitive to my awareness of him, and he responded accordingly.
And I've had those kinds of experiences with other creatures.
What I'm telling you here is that a lot of what we get back from the world has to do with our expectations.
I've had elephants, you know, put their, whether it was in Asia, in Nepal, or whether it was at the Portland Zoo, I've had elephants put their trunks over my nose and breathe with me in synchrony for five minutes while we held eye-to-eye contact.
I call it conspiracy.
It means breathing together, conspiring with elephants.
But that's what it is.
And why does it happen?
I've seen other people walk right up, do all the same things I did, and it never happened to them.
When I was in Asia helping this woman study elephant behavior, she wanted to become the Jane Goodall of elephants.
And I didn't.
I had no particular ambitions.
I had great admiration for the elephants and great love for them.
But my ego wasn't involved in that work.
And when an elephant would bow to me, literally bow to me, it would get down and do what the mahogany.
This is Coast to Coast A.M. Okay, just a few current items, and then we'll go to the phones here.
The Afghan foreign minister said Mullah Mohammed Omar is surrounded by anti-Taliban forces near the central city of Bangran as U.S. troops and warplanes on Friday went after al-Qaeda fighters in eastern Afghanistan.
So they may be about to get him.
If captured, he will either be tried in Afghanistan or elsewhere.
That's pretty interesting.
So they're not...
Now, all of a sudden, the Afghan government is suggesting that they might not, that he might be tried there in Afghanistan.
I don't think that is satisfactory.
There was a U.S. Army Special Forces soldier killed Friday by a small arms fire.
It was an ambush that occurred in the east part of Afghanistan, the first American military death directly from enemy fire.
And as I told you, in Australia, the weather around the world is just astounding right now.
I mean, it is.
We're setting all kinds of weather records.
No surprise for me, but in Australia, thousands of koalas are either dead or injured because of the fires that are raging across that country.
The nation's unemployment rate is on the way up, six-year high now, at about 5.8%.
Still, I can remember years when 5.8% would be a goal probably thought to be unattainable.
Well, we're going to have a guest on this subject, but I need to cover it with you because it's occurring right now.
The cattle mutilations are back.
The kind of deja vu that Everett King could do without.
About 15 years ago, he discovered the grisly remains of one of his cattle that had died mysteriously.
Well, in October, apparently, we're just finding out right now, it occurred again.
King said it looked as though a surgeon had sliced into a seven-year-old in the way its right eye and ear were cut off, not to mention the way its reproductive organs had been cored.
Here we go again.
What King finds most unusual, however, is that two months later, the carcass lies right where he found it, untouched.
Predators won't eat it.
They won't touch it.
It should have been cleaned up and gone a long time ago, but they will not touch it.
Ranchers reported four mutilations between June and August.
Since then, there have been, get this, 11 more, and investigators are still searching for any answers.
Same bizarre circumstances haunted area ranchers and baffled law enforcement 20 years ago, sparking rumors about UFOs, cults, government conspiracies, all the rest of it.
It just goes on and on and on.
I believe this is occurring for the most part in the area, in the Montana area.
And there's a lot of it going on.
I mean, just all of a sudden, we're getting the news.
It's breaking all over the place.
Cattle mutilations like crazy in Montana.
Now, I have no answers, and I don't know anybody that does for what this is, what's doing this, and why.
None of it seems like it makes any sense at all to me.
Now, here's something pretty interesting.
It looks like in New Mexico, a church is burning Harry Potter books.
Now, I also saw, I guess it appeared in a New York newspaper, an exorcist, a Catholic priest there, that was also talking about the evil aspects from his point of view of the Potter books.
Listen to this, Almogordo, New Mexico, AP.
As hundreds protested nearby, a church group burned Harry Potter and other books.
Jack Brock, the Christ Community Church founder and pastor, said the books burned Sunday were, quote, a masterpiece of satanic deception, end quote.
These books, he goes on, teach children how they can get into witchcraft and become a witch, wizard, or even warlock, said Brock.
Members sang amazing grace as they tossed potter books plus some other books and magazines into the fire.
So we're still doing that.
And here is a picture of Ouija board, a giant flame with Ouija boards, the works of Shakespeare, Harry Potter books, ACDC records.
They made what's being called a holy fire in New Mexico, and they burned all of these things.
Now, let's see, the person who sent this to me says, all right, I believe you, meaning me, are connected to some larger government plan to control the masses.
As much as I believe you, I see a tendency for you to divert attention away from our government and toward other areas of interest.
I hope I'm wrong.
Oh, by the way, I'm 100% behind burning Harry Potter books.
Dean of Alpine, California.
Well, we have lots of talks here about how the American public would accept news of alien presence and accept news of life after death.
And then you read stories like this, and I don't know.
I have always thought that the Brookings study was as correct today as it was the day it was written.
And of course, it predicts that people would freak out.
And, you know, as I've said, basically, if they landed, a little green guy would be so full-led by the time he got down to the bottom of the ramp that we probably will start an intergalactic war or something.
In other words, there are a lot of people around who still think that anything of this kind is evil, satanic.
Here, listen to this.
Ruth writes, Here's why we Bible-believing Christians do not glom on to research about life after death.
Another subject I've been very interested in lately.
First, we are secure in the knowledge that the Bible gives us about the afterlife.
We don't need any science on that topic, and in fact, are suspicious that Satan himself could be pulling off such a deception for modern people.
Second, it'll not convince non-believers.
In Luke 17, there's a story of the rich man in Hades who asked Abraham to send somebody back to earth to tell his brothers so they'd not go to the place of torment.
Abraham said that if they do not believe Moses and the prophets, then they will not be persuaded even if one rose from the dead.
So there is a school of thought out there represented, you know, by the people who burn the books down there, all the rest of the stuff.
And Ruth, who really just don't care about any science.
We don't need no damn science on that topic.
Well, I'm sorry, Ruth.
I do.
And it's interesting to me, your missive, nevertheless, nonwithstanding.
It's really interesting to me that you felt absolutely compelled to write on that subject.
It astounds me that true believers are apparently repelled by the idea that science is closing in on proving, on proving, mind you, that we have a soul, something entirely separate from our physical being, from our brains, that, I mean, entirely separate.
You would think, wouldn't you, that the churches and the religious believers out there would be not only in tune with these findings and these amazing things we're now learning from science about what may be, but hell funding such efforts.
But it's the exact opposite.
They're freaking out.
They hate it.
They hate the fact that science is beginning to verify what they've had as an article of faith.
I was just hearing that guy with the whales, and I'm aware of some of the studies which state that even the simplest light ones have feelings, souls, etc.
And I could go by my own experience with that because I'm a big fan of heavy metal music, and I noticed when I was younger that all the plants my mother had that were within earshot, they all died.
She noticed that I was looking at her and her child, and she looked, it must have been a newborn baby because she did it just the way a human would do it.
And I'm like, if anybody can tell me how you can convince these people in the dark ages, hey, yes, every living thing has a soul, you know, I'd like to know where I can do that.
When you replay the first hour of the show, why not go back into the archives and pull out like one of the older shows and play back the first hour on Monday and the second hour on Tuesday and so on?
Now, there is a pretty good title for a book, From Chocolate to Morphine.
Or Milk to Morphine.
That may have a better ring.
I'm Marbell.
This is Coast to Coast, AF.
Good morning.
All right.
This is kind of interesting, and I think maybe we'll give it a try and see what happens.
I have no idea what's going to happen, actually.
That's usually the case on this program.
Somebody sent me an email.
Roberta sent me an email by Paul Harvey.
Now, I don't know if it's the Paul Harvey.
It's entitled, If I Were the Devil.
If I Were the Devil.
And then, of course, it's a thing about how I would corrupt the morals of the children, and I would, you know, ruin America, and I would do this and that to the world.
And it's quite long, and I'm not going to burden you by reading it, but I am considering asking you that question.
In other words, what would you do if you were the devil?
If I were to ask you to put yourself in the shoes of the Horned One, the devil, what would you do?
Now, don't call up and say, I'd fall on my knees and ask God to take me back, because that's not, you know, it's not happening.
The devil does what the devil does.
And I'm not exactly even sure what the devil does.
You know, there are those who say that he is responsible for all the evil, horrible things that happen in the world.
But I'm not even sure about that one.
So I don't know what the devil's job is.
I suppose he goes out there and makes deals for souls.
If you listen to Father Martin when he was on the program, he talked about people having made perfect deals with the devil and all the rest of that.
But, you know, other than perhaps striking those deals up with living souls, because we are supposedly quite a valuable commodity to be fought over, I thought it might be interesting, but also rather dangerous, to ask you what you would do if you were the devil.
Now, if you want to try to answer that question, again I say, before you answer it, put yourself in the shoes of the devil.
Now, he's not wanting God's forgiveness.
He's not wanting to hop up to heaven or anything else.
He got booted out and really has it in for the big guy.
And he's just, you know, he's the devil.
So if you're going to try and answer the question, it is a very interesting question.
First, try to put yourself in the shoes of the cast-off one, the cast-down one, who has nothing but real vengeance on his mind and competes for souls.
So if you were the devil, if you were the devil, what would you do?
Anybody out there want to try and answer that for me?
I would be very interested in listening to what you have to say.
And you think the media is fully capable of fulfilling that role?
unidentified
I think it's possible in the sense that there are many people who watch the evening news on one of the big three or four and take it as, well, in the parlance of your question, gospel.
I had actually accidentally tuned into your show because I was listening on AM radio on the way home from work one night late just to catch the traffic.
Number one, the second being he described sounded suspiciously like what we're calling shadow people, for lack of a better term.
And these are being seen, you may want to know, you are not wacko, by thousands or even hundreds of thousands of people out there, so you're not alone, sir.
And as far as the ghost is concerned, you know, I know there are a lot of people Friday night, Saturday morning that would not have been here, for example, last night.
Let's see if I can crash this part of the website, huh?
One of the best ghost photographs that I have ever seen in my years of doing this is on my website and it went up last night under the what's new as you go at 2artbell.com on the left-hand side under what's new there's something entitled parking garage ghost in Japan.
It's from some sort of Japanese broadcast.
It was obviously broadcast in Japan somewhere.
And it's a real video file.
And what you will see, well, I've been getting emails all day long, not fast blast, because they appear to be quite broken at the moment.
But if you'll go take a look at this parking garage ghost, and you've got to watch this absolutely, you have to watch it several times, not just once.
You'll see an apparition, not fully involved, not fully physical, walk behind a concrete pillar along the wall behind a car, and then walk right through the wall.
I mean, this is motion video, folks.
This is a security camera, you know, in a parking garage in Japan.
No wonder they ran it.
It's the damnedest thing you've ever seen.
So get to my website, take a look at this, and let me know what you think.
So do I think there are ghosts?
Why?
As a matter of fact, yes, I do.
I sure do.
So what you're seeing, sir, is not a shock to me.
You know, it just occurred to me, that guy said he didn't believe in the devil.
I should have asked him if he believed in God.
I wonder if he just believes in the good guy and believes there's no bad guy.
Oh, what a surprise he could have, huh?
So anyway, the question is, what would you do if you were the devil?
You were the devil, what would you do?
How would you go about disrupting things and causing strife and death and starvation and all the things that people think he's responsible for?
But the topic of conversation, and I figured that, you know, you're the kind of person that the things I want to say, you and your audience will probably give some consideration to.
She probably said that because there are so many people running around saying that the founding fathers based the whole Constitution on the Bible and religion and all the rest of it.
maybe he hadn't done the reading on Thomas Paine himself hard to tell uh wild card line you're on the air hello hi Art hello how you doing uh okay uh good I'm calling about an article I just read uh online from Canada.com in Ottawa about it takes only 11 nuclear bombs to take out Canada really all of Canada could be taken out with 11 nukes that's what it says and the interesting thing is it tells about other countries too and
unidentified
it said for Iraq and North Korea are you in Canada are you in Canada no I'm in I'm sorry my name is Mark I'm in West Hartford Connecticut listening to TIC AM 1080 course okay um and it said Iraq and North Korea would be destroyed by targeting each with four nuclear weapons four four each destroy all the NATO countries Canada included would require around 300 warheads China because of its large population would have to be targeted by 368 but the the weird thing is it says U.S. it would only take 124
And considering that Russia and us have thousands upon thousands, that's not a lot.
So then the number of nukes it takes to utterly poison forever with regard to humanity's presence, any given area, depends on its geographical size more than anything else, apparently.
unidentified
That's what it says in the article anyway.
Oh, well, okay.
I guess it's a new computer program.
It's developed by Matthew McKenzie, who's a physicist who worked on the computer program for the Washington-based Natural Resources Defense Council.
When a baby is at seven or eight months and in the womb and kicking the crap out of the womb and just moving around and smiling and moving with the opposable thumbs and stuff like that, that's not life.
But then he was breathed in the breath of life and then he became a living soul.
You know, this doomed this day theology, these fundamentalists, they're taking advantage of the fear and insecurity of people to frighten them into religion.
Well, you know, like 24 hours later, the rumor got out that some station was going to drop us because of, I don't know, the Harry Potter syndrome, we'll call it, right?
And exactly 24 hours, the competitor in town said, we heard a rumor that that station is going to drop you.
Can we have you?
And so that's exactly where all the ratings are going to go over there.
Sort of a moronic move.
Somebody who doesn't, in my opinion, listen to the station, they take a few calls from people probably fundamentalists during the day saying, he's the devil.
He's the devil.
And they react to that.
They don't actually listen.
It's so interesting the kind of responses you get to a question like this.
And, you know, it leads all over the place.
It's just an interesting study in human nature.
Some people don't believe in the devil.
Those who do might want to consider, even those who don't, what they would do if they were the big horned one.
This also, before we go back to calls here, this is from Tim.
This is kind of interesting.
And I haven't read it yet, but if you have knowledge, email me.
Let me know.
Tim says, Art, I'm listening to Dean Kuntz's new book, you know, Dean Kuntz, very famous author, right?
Called One Doorway Away from Heaven.
One Door Away from Heaven.
One Door Away from Heaven.
Interesting title.
Which came out December 26th on audiobook.
And I was floored when I heard your name and your show, not the title of the show, were part of the story.
Have you thought of having Mr. Koontz as a guest on the program?
In a previous book, False Memory, there was a character which was interested in the topics talked about on your show.
So apparently, it may be true.
He says, take a look at getting his new book.
It has an alien in it, and it is a very good book.
So Dean Kuntz may have mentioned me in a book.
If anybody knows specifically what he said, I would be interested.
And yes, Dean Kuntz probably would be a pretty interesting person to have on the show, I would imagine.
He's kind of a dark thinker, if you've read a lot of Kuntz.
He's a dark thinker.
Just my kind of guy.
Okay, where to go?
Oh, I know where to go.
Let's do what we have to do so we don't get in trouble.
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A wildcard line, you're on air.
Hello.
unidentified
Hello, Art.
Yes.
Yes, I'm calling in reference to your question, what would I do if I was the devil?
And so, therefore, if you were in charge of that task.
unidentified
I would do what it would take to keep people's mind off God, which is to grant them material things, money, houses, things to keep their mind off God, preoccupy them, to let them believe that they have everything they already need on this physical world they're taking care of.
And what nation in the world would you name that has most moved in the material technological direction more than any other nation on the face of the earth?
I'm calling in reference to, this goes back a few years.
There was a lady in Lamont, Illinois that had a sighting of a triangular-shaped UFO, made no sound, and then later on there was a Sandusky, Ohio policeman, or wife of a policeman that had a similar sighting.
Well, I was coming out of, I'm a truck driver, and I was coming out of Darien, Wisconsin, going over towards Beloit.
And I was, you know, I-43 runs east and west at that point.
And I was looking up in the sky, looking at Jupiter.
Well, the thing of it is, is that if it was a plane, as it made a right-hand turn to go south, okay, because I'm going west and if it's coming towards me, it would be going east.
And I would find it very interesting to listen to the playbacks on the approach control for Chicago for that period of time.
Exactly.
Because what happened?
Right.
After that, what happened was that this bright white light accelerated to the airplane that was the last in the line and came to, you know, matched its speed just above and to the front of it.
So obviously, that flight crew had to have seen that object.
If it accelerated and went into position in front of the last plane in the line, and planes do line up, you see them all lined up either taking off or landing, then the logical presumption would be, despite the fact that the light maintained its brightness through the turn, that an air controller put it in that spot.
That's what they do, is they line them up.
Now, if it was some sort of UFO, then it just got into the landing pattern.
And I'm sure some pilot had quite a sight, but I would doubt that was the case.
I would say it was much more likely that was an airliner, but that's just a guess.
You know, there's a lot of people who say, well, they're all satanic.
That was an interesting call.
Now, if there are any other satanic feminists out there to confirm what this lady laughed her way through, be sure and try and get through tonight on one of the lines.
As the general question persists, what would you do if you were the devil?
I wanted to let you know, first of all, that what I'd do if I were the devil would be to get Christians' attention diverted from Christ's teaching to mundane activities such as burning Harry Potter books.
Well, no, actually, not talking about so much about the devil, although I guess, you know, he'd come up, of course, about what you would do if you were the devil.
unidentified
Well, if I was the devil, I would just keep on doing exactly what he's doing, which is closing people's eyes to what is really happening around and letting everybody think that he's in control when he's not.
But then again, if you really were MID, you wouldn't admit that, would you?
Anyway, you know, it's interesting that people who do claim that they're over on this strange side of what's called the secret government, you know, operatives of the secret government rather fancy themselves as real true blue Americans, red, white, and blue Americans, even though they readily admit that the Constitution in their work is shredded.
You know, we do, as you well know, because you are a listener to the program.
I was talking about this earlier.
I do some pretty strange things, admittedly.
Nah.
Well, you know, but certain group of people take it in a certain way.
You know, the same people that are burning Harry Potter's books, they take it in a certain way, and they call up a radio station, and they say, it's the devil.
unidentified
You're running somebody's advocating the devil and the dark side at night.
Well, if they don't like the Harry Potter books, why do they buy them?
I would imagine that a lawyer's point of view is hip, hip, hooray.
You know, I mean, this is like a lawyer seeing a hundred-car pileup in the fog.
unidentified
Yeah, that's what I thought would make it interesting because I kept running some kind of like dead ends there last night, you know, some of the subjects with your guest.
And I thought, wow, the lawyer's point of view might be interesting.
Well, a lawyer is, no, you would go to perhaps a constitutional scholar for an opinion of that sort.
Thank you very much.
But going to a lawyer is like going to the devil.
You know, he'll talk about the subject, but he's a hired gun, and he will go out and, if he's fulfilling his obligation, defend to the very best of his ability either side of the question.
That's what they do.
By some, it is considered to be sort of devilish work, actually.
Do you think, obviously you also think the devil is doing a very good job right now.
In fact, would you go so far as to say that in the fight between God and the devil for the souls of mankind, the devil is in the lead right now, and we're in the fourth quarter?
unidentified
I'm not so sure he's he may be in the lead, but he's losing his lead.
And I think there's especially such a lot of things.
You remember, remember, let's see, it was last summer I called in and said that I was telling the neighbors about chemtrails and stuff, and I called in and told you, and you said, well, they better listen because they're coming.
Actually, he has direct knowledge, he says, with regard to chemtrails, and it is the one subject I have battered him over the head about, and he refuses to talk about it at all.
He says he would go to jail.
unidentified
Right.
He said it's a government operation, and he couldn't talk about it.
Yeah, and I did send it to a lab, and they called you back, and I said, well, they said it was conifer pollen, and you hung up on me, and you said, oh, it was just a jet stream brought in some dirt over from dust over from Singapore or somewhere.
There's been a lot of speculation about aluminum particles and experimentation with these chemtrails in an effort to cool the earth down.
That's one theory.
And frankly, I like it an awful lot better than hearing about red blood cells in rain.
That's probably a bad omen.
Now, I'm not a biologist, and I'm not a scientist of any sort, but right away I know when I think about it, that red blood cells in raindrops would be really bad.
Basically, I was introduced to your show, you know, out of ignorance, having discussions with people about UFOs and vehicles of the Bible and demons, and directed to your show, found out that it wasn't just a bunch of UFO green men stuff that you include.
You include so much information, and you glean so much info from so many different areas.
Understand that people have to listen to the show.
And a lot of people, you know, they don't.
Anyway, listen, we're at a break and I'm going to have to go here.
unidentified
If you were the devil, what would you do?
If I was the devil, I guess I would do exactly what it is prophesied that I would do, and that's come to earth, pretend to be Jesus, and get the world to follow me.
Well, you'd have a hard time getting him represented properly because everybody'd think he'd be the devil, which or the Antichrist, which would be coming first, you know.
And so I don't know how you'd sell that one.
unidentified
Well, it's happening today, and you're right about what everybody would think.
Well, that might be another part of what we're talking about, but just as a small example, at this time I have a rather interesting creature in the shed that...
You may think it's corny, but it's not corny at all.
They're putting human DNA in pigs, ma'am.
I heard the lady who called yesterday about pig people.
Yeah, that might be a slight exaggeration right now, but could it happen?
Yes.
And even if you don't believe that can happen, then if you listened carefully yesterday to the professor, then you know damn well that there could be a sudden cross-species jump of a virus that would be life-ending on Earth.
He sort of was rather clear, I thought, about that.
That continued experimentation in this area could result in that.
That would be definitely one of the oops factor things we were talking about last night.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
unidentified
Hi.
Hi.
Thank you again for taking my call.
You're welcome.
If I were the devil, in addition to the more obvious things, I would put a big effort into going after the people who have not yet decided what they're going to believe.
They would be, they would, well, that's what politicians have to do.
You know, when it gets down to a close election, they have to go down and they have to lobby the people that are on the fence that haven't quite made their decision yet, virtually right up till the moment when the vote is cast.
unidentified
Yes.
And part of my efforts would be to get them to believe that religious people are stupid.
And I would do that by getting blackhead know-it-alls to say a lot of stupid things.
Well, yeah, but those are the people, sir, that the masses listen to.
The ones that have access to what?
The media.
And they will say something utterly, totally, absolutely outrageous that they generally have to end up apologizing for later.
And the media readily distributes it, and everybody is shocked.
Yeah, good point.
I mean, if you could get religious leaders to say things that would be incredibly disruptive and appear to be very stupid, then what effect would that have on those who had been following them?
West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
Good morning.
unidentified
Hello, Art.
Hello.
I'm calling from KGMI AM790 here in Bellingham.
That's absolutely excellent.
And I just wanted to let you know what I would do if I was the devil.
I think if I was the devil, I would take great pleasure in punishing all the people who are evil here on earth and then end up visiting me in the afterlife in hell.
Well, that part of it, you know, it doesn't exactly make sense.
Maybe you can help me out with this just a little bit.
The devil is ticked off at God because he got the big boot and, you know, there's been war ever since, right, pretty much.
And so the devil's been doing all this bad stuff we're taught and God does the good stuff or tries to.
You know, it's good influence, devil's bad influence, right?
So if somebody has been particularly bad here on earth, I mean really bad, evil in fact, you would think that when he would get down there that, You know the devil would have work for him, not torture, because he would have been virtually doing the devil's work while he was here.
I mean, isn't that a sort of a logical yes, and that actually kind of ties into my second thought where I thought maybe I could create some kind of helpers to come back to Earth as kind of a part two of their life.
They could come back to Earth and work in a field that reaches a lot of people, such as mass media, and I could brainwash people to do more evil through my little helpers.
Okay, well, I take it you've heard my classic recording.
Now, this allegedly, and this was backed up by a wire, a major wire service news story, which we had on the website, about scientists in what then was the Soviet Union, Siberia actually drilling down to the deepest depth that anyone had ever drilled.
And the scientists heard noises that they lowered microphones into this very deep hole.
And they heard things, and they actually made a recording, which allegedly is what I have here.
And you've got to ask yourself, now, when you're considering the location of hell, you've got to at least consider this evidence.
Listen very carefully and see if you can discern what it is they recorded, what it is this really is.
If I were the devil question, I'd command a bunch of fools and braindead to take over a plane and have them collide with two twin towers, if you know what I mean.
No, I think the experience, and this may be hard for you to consider and hard for everyone to consider, but the emotional experience that we all had and still have when we see pictures of that horrible day, you know, when the buildings were hit and then collapsed and so many dead and the way it affected this whole nation emotionally, it traumatized the whole nation.
I think their reaction would be the exact opposite.
And I know that's hard to comprehend, but I think that they're the true believers, you know, and they would simply regard it as kind of a holy ground for them, a holy ground where a deed had been done, a bolt of lightning from their God had struck in the evil center of the devilish America, right?
I mean, wouldn't that be their point of view at ground zero versus ours?
Somehow I imagined that she had whacked him with something, you know, like Lizzie Borden and used that as a defense in court, everything you just heard her say.
Do you think it would have worked?
Wildcard wine, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hello.
Yeah, good morning, Art.
It's Stephen in Evansville, Indiana.
Yes, sir.
You have said something about synchronicity or something to that effect where you see the same time numbers over and over again.
Well, I see the same numbers like 12-12 come up and 7-13 and 4-20.
These times always come up at the, I mean, I never fail to look at the clock when it's at that particular time, and it always surprises me when I see that.
And you're just riding on little ground there, aren't you?
unidentified
Yeah, I'd have like strapping road workers and stuff that, you know, I'd kind of party with.
But then, you know, also, the rest of the world I'd like have them ruled by fundamentalists whether Christian or Muslim or whatever and I'd take away all music and art and um I would just have it all down in hell.
So then really his work here is very, very easy because our proclivities, our natural proclivities, lean in his direction anyway.
unidentified
I think, yeah, I think that every day we face a battle between whether or not we're going to be good people and cheerful people and be nice to each other or if we're going to be snooty and just bad-tempered and foul-minded.
First of all, I'd like to say God bless you for your endeavor to seek truth.
And I'd just like to touch on a couple of things right quick on the surface.
One, you had a caller saying you asked him where hell was, according to the Bible.
And hell is related to in the Bible as being in the center of the earth.
In Ephesians, the fourth chapter, it relates to he that ascended into the heavens, first descended into the lower parts of the earth to take captivity captive.
But what I wanted to allude to, and maybe, you know, my little bit of wisdom the Lord has blessed me with in these few years can bless some people that are looking for some truth.
We first have to understand one thing.
There's only two sources of knowledge and power in this universe aside from the natural knowledge of man.
That is the natural source of knowledge either coming from Satan or coming from God.
Well, in that case, he's winning because a lot of people who call here think that the whole concept of the devil, and in fact, a lot of the new agers that I interview are absolutely certainly convinced there is no devil.
There were, you know, a lot of things about living on that island that were really different.
And there was a lot of ordnance, as you know, on that island because the invasion of Okinawa was bloody and difficult and costly in terms of American lives.
And so there was ordnance all over the place, found all the time, still being found, as a matter of fact.
Maybe that'll just be sort of a temporary occurrence, or maybe if good people do nothing and presume that it'll all unfold as is suggested in the Bible, then they'll be wrong.
And his batting average, you know, he'll just keep knocking him right out of the park.
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If you destroyed good, there would be really nothing left but all the bad and negative, and he could sit back and watch the evil destroy itself.
Because with these various books, there has been more killing in the name of all that is written and believed in these various books than any other books ever published anywhere ever in the history of the world.