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Sept. 12, 2001 - Art Bell

02:42:43

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Open Lines - Callers Respond and React to 911, Day 2

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01:21:14

john hogue

05:18

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richard c hoagland

02:30

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I've been to all good evening, good morning, or good afternoon, wherever you may be across the globe, and it's a big listening audience out there.
		I'm Mark Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
		And as I did yesterday and probably will do tomorrow, this program is going to be in open lines all night long.
		I've thought very hard about this since this has happened, since all of this has happened.
		And CNN is doing just a superb job, as has been Fox since CBC and the BBC and so many other networks.
		Just a superb job of getting experts on the air to talk about what happened in New York.
		And they're continuing to do that, and I'm glued to it just like everybody else is, so I'm not going to regurgitate what they have been saying all day long.
		I will, however, talk about it.
		That's a different story.
		Looking around the headlines very quickly, New York City is requesting 6,000 body bags.
		Nobody seems to know exactly how many dead there may be.
		They just don't know.
		Our own government has said, well, maybe hopefully the estimates are too high.
		Others are saying they're low and there will be 10,000.
		Nobody really knows.
		That's one thing they're really not talking very much about.
		They certainly know the dead among their own, the police and the fire, and that's horrific.
		More than 300 firefighters?
		Oh, my God.
		But in terms of the number of civilians killed in the buildings, they don't really know yet.
		President Bush seeking the okay to retaliate.
		President Bush himself using the words, acts of war.
		And that will bring on a question tonight, to be sure.
		The inquiry now focusing, obviously, much more heavily on bin Laden.
		It looks like they've got an awful lot of evidence, doesn't it?
		The airline's still not flying.
		Some limited flights of those flights that were underway will continue allowing some passengers to get to their destinations.
		No more knives.
		Lots of new rules to be expected, right?
		More than 24 hours now after the airliner smashed into the Pentagon.
		They still really don't know.
		They just don't know how many are dead, as I said a little while ago, and hopes are dimming for anybody found alive.
		Cancellations everywhere, baseball being canceled.
		Other games, other events being canceled.
		People can't get to them, you know, no flying, so you can't just hopscotch around anymore.
		You know, there's a few things involved in all of this that I really would like to talk to you about.
		And the first item is Flight 93.
		Flight 93 was the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania while it was on its way to apparently crash into the White House or perhaps the Capitol building.
		They're not really sure, but probably the White House.
		They think that was the target of that plane.
		And an incredible story, an incredible story of what went on in Flight 93.
		And this is pretty good information, you know, with all the rumors flying out there right now.
		It's hard to know what is real and what's not.
		But we think we know for sure some things about Flight 93.
		And that would be that as the aircraft was streaking along, headed toward Washington, D.C., after it had made the turn back toward Washington, D.C., there was a passenger on the plane who got through on a cell phone or on the plane's phone,
		I'm not sure, but got through to a family member who was interviewed by CNN and others who said that they obviously were, it was a panic call saying we're hijacked.
		Well, the family on the ground in turn gave information to the passenger that one plane had already collided with the World Trade Center.
		They knew that at that time.
		So that information was relayed to the passengers on Flight 93.
		And as I understand it, the male passengers on Flight 93 apparently herded to the back of the plane.
		They now believe that the flight crew, the stews in the back of the plane, were threatened or perhaps they were killing them one by one to get the flight crew to come out.
		Flight crew came out, they grab them, they take the plane.
		They think that's how it happened in each case, as a matter of fact.
		However, in the case of Flight 93, as this plane streaked toward, in all probability, the White House, the male passengers voted, voted to rush the hijackers at their own expense.
		Now, whether they intentionally crashed that aircraft, and that's what it looks like to me, or whether they simply in the process of trying to overpower the hijackers to stop this, whether that caused the crash.
		Either way, there were people, men on that plane, who voted to overpower the hijackers who had one man, a two-month-old daughter with him.
		Others, probably entire families.
		So I think these people are really heroes.
		I think these people deserve the Medal of Honor.
		These people decided to forfeit their own lives.
		What greater sacrifice does anybody ever make?
		None.
		Forfeit their own lives to stop this plane from crashing into its target, whether it was the White House or the Capitol building.
		And I think they're really heroes.
	I mean, I tried to sit and imagine what it would be like in your last moments as the plane you were in was headed toward Washington, D.C., with knowledge of what it was going to do, and they did have that knowledge, to take a vote, which most surely, one way or the other, was going to end your own life to save the White House.
	Now, there's a lot of heroes in this, but I really want to call attention to what these people did.
	I think it's amazing.
	I think it's heartening.
	I think a lot of things, but it's heartening.
	So I'd like your comments on that.
	Fox News reported earlier in the day, and this may be, you know, there's so many rumors going on, but they reported that one man apparently rode the building down from the 82nd floor and lived, ended up in one of those pockets.
	I can't imagine that.
	Can you actually rode down as the building collapsed?
	You saw the collapse on TV, right?
	Can you imagine riding it down and then somehow ending up alive?
unidentified		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going to be a lot of this.
		I do have a photograph on my website, which is very disturbing, which got up there about 15 minutes ago.
		This photograph is an unaltered, let me repeat, unaltered photograph of one of the moments of the impact.
		In fact, it really is just about the moment of impact because of the fireball you'll see of this aircraft on one of the Twin Towers.
		The explosion of the 767 into the second World Trade Tower, actually.
		And you be the judge.
		This was sent to us by Matt Massey.
		You be the judge yourself.
		But there is, without question, the face of a devil in this photograph, of an evil entity or the devil or whatever, and it's very clear.
		I don't know about Matt Massey's outline, perhaps showing more than I see in the photograph.
		I don't see a full devil as does he, and he's outlined that for you.
		But without question and without a difficulty, I do see in that unaltered photograph an evil face.
		You be the judge.
		That's on my website right now at artbell.com.
		It's the damnedest thing.
		We found these in a number of photographs.
		You remember the election photograph and what we had right in the middle of the two candidates?
		Remember that?
		And a number of other photographs.
		But there's very little question about this photograph.
		We just got it up before airtime.
		If you go to my website, artbell.com, click on what's new, and then photos from 911 terrorist attack.
		It is the first photograph right now there.
		And below it, what Major Ed Dames, as a matter of fact, I guess we didn't get all of that up.
		We didn't get the important part of it up.
		I'll have to talk to Keith about that.
		There was more to this.
		I guess if you click and enlarge it, let me see.
		I think you're going to have to do that.
		It may be, yeah, I think in the entire photograph.
		Right now, my own website is slowing down as zillions of people go up there following my directions.
		So I've just slowed myself down to a point where it's going to take me a minute or so to get this photograph.
		So patience, everybody.
		There's a lot of traffic up there right now.
		At any rate, the drawing that Ed Dames did send me, I faxed on to Keith, and he has put up on the website of where he believes this attack originated.
		I'd like to say something about the Canadian people, because I know I'm speaking to almost all of the Canadian people covering Canada coast to coast as we do the U.S. and beyond.
		The Canadian people have been fantastic throughout all this.
		About 17,000 is it people who are being provided hospitality by Nova Scotia and throughout Canada.
		As a matter of fact, four planes that landed in Canada, still nothing is particularly flying, and so these people are stuck in Canada.
		These Americans for the most part are stuck in Canada.
		And the Canadian people have been wonderful.
		Big-time friends.
		Now, make no mistake, with the incredible amount of uncovering of evidence today, there's going to be an attack.
		We indeed are going to attack someone somewhere, possibly Afghanistan, the Taliban, and if you listen to what the president has been saying, an act of war, his words, an act of war.
		And he was very clear about those who harbor people like bin Laden and company.
		And so that would include Afghanistan.
		One would imagine at the high side of what we might do, an attack on Afghanistan.
		Now, what would that mean?
		That would probably mean an attack on their military capability, whatever that would be.
		It may well mean an attack on their infrastructure, you know, power plants, that kind of thing.
		We don't attack Intentionally, civilians at all.
		So, at the high side, all I can imagine, of course, there could be other countries involved as well.
		And so, we could have, make no mistake about it, a war on our hands.
		Most of the newspapers that all these networks review every night talk about acts of war and war, it's war, headlines like that.
		So it may be war, but I wonder if you think that prior to attacking anybody, we should obtain, we should declare war.
		Now, how long has it been since we have declared war?
		World War II?
		So, shouldn't we declare war?
		Or is that not important?
		Have the days of declaring what you're going to do become moot?
		I'm not sure.
		What do you think?
		I somehow think we probably ought to.
		So, should a declaration of war be made prior to any attack, which obviously is coming?
	And I have one more thing I want to talk about with you, and I will, after that, open the lines and do exactly what I've pledged to myself.
	I have had, I bet, a hundred offers of experts to come on the air and guests who would like to come on the air about all of this.
	But I am declining them all because I think the right thing for me to do is to let you have a voice, simple as that.
	I don't hear a lot of that going on.
	I hear wall-to-wall coverage, which is great, and I'm watching it myself, you know, as I'm sure many of you are.
	I don't hear a lot of open lines, so I'm going to continue to do that.
	At any rate, stay where you are.
	We'll be right back.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The other thing that I wanted to touch on before we open the lines tonight is Fox was doing some interesting coverage earlier in the day, and as part of that, they had a man who's running around with this new technological invention.
		They call the videophone, which is amazing to get that much movement over a POTS line, whether it's from Afghanistan or here in the U.S. is astounding.
		That's plain old telephone line, by the way.
		So they said a man, somehow, one of the Fox reporters got permission to do what nobody else had done, and that was to go virtually to ground zero and observe what was going on.
		And oh my God.
		You know, he took pictures as he went, and as they properly pointed out, it's not just the World Trade Towers that are gone.
		It's like 10 blocks in either direction, with varying amounts of damage, from totally destroyed to light damage at the outer end.
		But my God, the pictures.
		I don't know if any of you have gotten to see them yet.
		I imagine many of you have, frankly, but I have never in my life seen anything like it.
		Short of a science fiction movie about nuclear war or...
unidentified		I...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely unbelievable.
		The devastation and the amount of physical destruction is just simply beyond belief.
		I sat there with my mouth open.
unidentified		I went, oh my God, look at that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Entire blocks, street blocks gone.
		Everything smashed.
		Cars flattened like pancakes.
		It's like from the worst sort of disaster movie with the best special effects you've ever seen in your life.
		In fact, this whole thing is kind of like that.
		The pictures of those planes smashing into the towers, it's like a movie.
		It's like a disaster movie with just really good studio work.
		Except this is real, and it just happened.
		The damage, it's unbelievable.
		In order to produce that much damage, and I'm sure the terrorists calculated very well here, in order to produce that much damage with conventional explosives, well, let me rephrase that.
		I think that you could not do that much damage with conventional explosives.
		So make no mistake about this.
		This required a lot of people, a lot of planning, a lot of money, and a lot of detail work on the part of the terrorists to achieve.
		I mean, they really, really, really knew what they were doing.
		I think it would take a nuclear-tipped something to produce that much damage.
		Otherwise, I've never in my life seen anything like it, except in the movies.
unidentified		Maybe after Dresden, it looked like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		But in my lifetime, I have never seen anything in real life that would get anywhere near equaling what I saw this Fox reporter got, my God.
		It's going to be weeks and months before they get things picked up.
		So, after the break here at the bottom of the hour, I'm going to do exactly what I have pledged myself to do, and that's to open the lines to all of you, and you're certainly welcome to discuss any of this or anything else about this incident.
		That's about the only thing that anybody out there is thinking about.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Well, I think it's time to get ready To realize just what I have found I have to stand on the tail of what I am It's all clear to me now
		Oh, oh, oh We're in the way from the crest of a wave It's like magic
		Oh, oh, oh, oh We're in an infinite cloud in the magic For you and the pieces of all time
		You, oh, oh Higher and higher, baby It's a living thing Call Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
		in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255 East of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033 First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222 and the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295 to rechart on the toll-free international line call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nai.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, let me hit that a little harder.
		The international lines really are open, will be open all night long, and I'll try and pay special attention to them.
		You can go to my website at artbell.com, get the code for your country, and then dial that code followed by 800-893-0903.
		And if you do that, it will be a toll call, a toll-free call, a toll-free call from anywhere in the world.
		And we welcome international calls.
		Just to repeat, we've got a photograph on the website that will knock your socks off right now.
		In fact, I'll tell you a little history.
		I received it.
		This is definitely unaltered.
		I received the first copy of this photograph from a man who had plucked it from CNN's website.
		It's obviously of the impact point of the second aircraft.
		And it is, in fact, unaltered, but he had put on it a caption, what the F is This?
		So I decided we wouldn't post that version.
		Then I had some more versions, and finally, tonight, this same version, and so I know it's unaltered, Matt Massey sends it, and without question, without having to look at Matt's little drawing of the devil, when you look at this photograph, it leaps right out at you.
		You don't need Matt's little illustration for you to see the evil, perhaps face of the devil, some would say, or an evil entity in this photograph.
		It'll leap out at you.
		It's now the second photograph down.
		When you go to my website, just go to What's New and Photos from the 911 terrorist attack.
		And I think it's now the second photograph down.
		This one will blow you away.
		I don't know about the rest of you, but I absolutely believe in evil.
		And that means not just the evil in men's hearts.
		There's certainly enough of that to go around, but in a separate evil.
		I believe in a separate evil.
		And so I'm not surprised to see this photograph.
		It just says, what do you think at the end of it?
		And so it's a good question for you.
		What do you think?
		It's at artbell.com.
		All right, all of that said, we're going to do a quick break and jump into the phone lines as promised.
		Stay right there.
		All right, here we go, into the night with unscreened talk radio.
		And wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yes, hello, Art.
		This is Max, St. Thomas, Virgin Islands.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Max, is that correct?
		That's correct.
		Hi, Max.
		Great to hear from the Virgin Islands.
		How's our affiliate down there doing?
unidentified		Doing well.
		You're big out here.
		Real large.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How's all of this going down there?
unidentified		Oh, it's amazing.
		I mean, everybody's apathetic here as well.
		It's filling the newspapers.
		We're on heightened security.
		Our airports and the federal building has been on heightened security as well.
		So we're probably reacting to it about like everywhere else in the country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Except that the Virgin Islands, kind of like my situation here, depends a great deal on air freight.
		We depend on truck freight, but they're on the Virgin Islands.
		I would think that you all depend extraordinarily on air freight coming in, don't you?
unidentified		Well, a lot of that, plus a lot of ships coming out of Miami.
unidentified		I think more ships than air freight for groceries.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's right.
		You have ships.
		We have trucks.
unidentified		True.
		True.
		I was at your website and looking at the Ed Dames illustration.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Just looks like he's got it down to a pinpoint accuracy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what you would have to say of this is that the guy's got his neck stuck out.
		He's saying, here it is.
		Here's what the control, command, and control nerve center will be like, and here's where it is.
		That's getting pretty damn specific.
		You know, a lot of people say, gee, they never get specific.
		That's pretty specific.
unidentified		Yeah, I would say so.
unidentified		In fact, I'm wondering if it's going to be taken in when they do the investigation, if anybody's going to take this seriously and really check it out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
unidentified		I haven't got any word on that yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guess is that after the attack, in quotes, which is inevitably coming, we'll know something like this.
unidentified		I sure hope they take it seriously, and it'll be a good chance to verify the whole thing anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think the United States should be declaring war before going to war?
unidentified		Yes.
		Yeah, I do.
		I think that everybody knows it's coming anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think the president will go to Congress?
unidentified		Yeah, I believe he will.
		I think he's already starting in that direction.
		And I think he's got this almost global support.
		And yeah, it just seems like a classy way to do it, like we used to do it.
		And it shows the difference between the terrorists and us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just received word that the UN and workers with the UN are all pulling out of Kabul right now.
unidentified		That's a good sign.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a sign.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It depends on, I don't know if it's good.
unidentified		Well, I mean, it's good in the fact that they're taking it seriously, if nothing else.
		And they're realizing that we mean business now.
		We're not just going to tolerate this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, they may have had a message from New York.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Get out now.
unidentified		Yep.
		Well, I'd like to see it.
		I can't wait to watch us go in.
		I'm going to be glued to CNN, and I'm going to love every minute of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate your call, sir.
		Thank you.
		You know, I'm not.
		I don't think that's the word I would have used.
		I'm not going to love every minute of it.
		Because, you know, there's going to be a lot more people killed, that people get killed in war.
		But I'm just not going to love it.
		But I'm going to support it.
		You know, I mean, there is no question about the fact that this is an act of war against the United States, and it's going to be answered.
		But I'm not going to love it.
		I suppose some feelings, normal human feelings of justified retribution can't be avoided, right?
		So I suppose I'll have them, but I don't know about love.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, sir.
		Hi.
		Okay, I'm sorry.
		I'm really nervous.
		I've always wanted to talk to you, but I have never actually gotten to get through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in Red Oak, Texas.
		I am south of Dallas.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what is your first name?
unidentified		Britt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Britt?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome, Britt.
unidentified		Oh, it's great to talk to you.
		I'm actually in the circling pattern Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport.
		I get a ton of air traffic over me every day for it and several municipal airports around this area, too.
		And about midnight last night, I had been watching all this coverage on the television all day long and was just astounded.
		I'm a young, fairly young 23.
		I had no clue what it was like back in the 60s living under the threat of nuclear war or anything like that.
		And this is, I mean, the kind of mentality that had taken over everybody, especially in the early part of the events that happened yesterday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell you something, Britt.
		In a way, back when we did live under that threat, and, you know, I got, when I was a kid, I was under my desk duck in cover, you know, here you come.
		So I went through that.
		And in a way, certainly, you know, retrovision is 2020.
		But we were safer then than we are now.
		Yeah, in a way.
unidentified		Yeah, and like I said, I really didn't have any frame of reference with which to take in this, you know, that was happening yesterday and compare it to anything at all.
unidentified		But last night at about midnight, I walked outside, and I'm in a fairly rural area, and so it's fairly dark outside, and I went out in my backyard and looked up, and there wasn't a single flashing light in the sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
unidentified		And it just, that's when it finally hit and became real to me.
		I said, something happened today that has absolutely changed this planet.
		And I look up in the sky, there are no airplanes.
		It's because this happened today that I watched all day long on television.
		And now I look up and it became real at that point.
		When I looked up, there wasn't a single plane in the sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a damn to say, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I went into my backyard, my back desert, with my wife earlier today, and we both just stood there, and we looked at the sky, and we said, man, this is really eerie, isn't it?
unidentified		Yeah, and part of you wants to go, hey, for once, I get to look up at the stars and not have to disregard the flashing lights.
		But for once, I wanted to see him have that feeling that things were getting back to normal, but they weren't there last night.
		And it was midnight and a new day was starting.
		I was thinking to myself, as this new day starts, none of the days after this are going to be the same.
		I mean, I'm not saying this is some cataclysmic event, but things will be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not the end of the world or anything like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not the end of the world.
unidentified		Yeah, no, not yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably.
		Probably isn't the end of the world.
		All right, listen, thank you very much for the call.
		While we're on that subject, this isn't the end of the world, right?
		There is, we believe, an inaccurate rendition of the Nostradamus prediction on World War III ripping across the internet out there right now.
		And I'm going to read it to you.
		And I believe that it is, while it's close to being accurate, it certainly is not accurate.
		So I think you can regard this, I believe you can regard this, as a hoax.
		It says, Nostradamus said the following, In the year of the new century in nine months, from the sky will come a great king of terror.
		The sky will burn at 45 degrees.
		Fire approaches the great new city.
		In the city of York, there will be a great collapse.
		Two twin brothers torn apart by chaos.
		While the fortress falls, the great leader will succumb.
		The third big war will begin when the big city is burning.
		Nostradamus.
		Well, we think that that is not an accurate quote.
		I think that there is a great deal of it that's accurate.
		I think the city, or the part about York is not.
		But a new city would be sufficient anyway.
		The person who sent this notes, he said this will be bigger than the previous two.
		2001 is the first year of the new century, and this is the ninth month.
		New York is located at the 41st degree latitude.
		So we might discuss this a little bit.
		I don't have the specific words of Nostradamus, but I don't think those were exactly them.
		They're close.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good evening, Ark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, sir.
unidentified		My name is Gary, and I'm from Seattle.
unidentified		I was listening to Cuomo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I really appreciate you doing this.
		I think the country needs this.
		You know, we've all suffered a great psychic shock, and we all want justice, but I think we all need to be thinking carefully about our steps that we're going to be taking, like you said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I did the whole program all day long yesterday.
		I was in shock, and I did the program in shock, and I'm not sure I'm out of it yet.
		I'm a little bit better today than I was yesterday, but I was really in shock.
unidentified		Well, you weren't alone.
		I heard every commentator on TV, and they all said the same thing.
		They said they felt shocked, so you certainly weren't the only one on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, shocked and in shock are kind of different things.
		I was sort of in a different state yesterday in that it almost, and a lot of it today, too, as I look near ground zero, it almost, you've got to suspend belief.
		You look at it, it's like a movie.
unidentified		Yeah, I wanted to comment what you said about the building quickly, because I heard one of the, the fellow, in fact, the famous demolition group that brought down the kingdom up here, and they're known worldwide.
		He said he looked at that, and it's his opinion that it was the fireball that brought it down.
		But the other thing I thought it was interesting, they said, and it goes along with what you said, there's a huge amount of damage around there.
		They're expecting two more buildings to collapse.
		He said the highest building that his group had ever brought down was a 49-story skyscraper, and no one in the world, he thought, even knew before this happened what the effect of bringing such a huge building down would be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I don't think they ever bring down buildings quite like that, even though it fell as one of our casinos might fall in Las Vegas almost straight down, which was amazing, cascading on itself.
unidentified		In fact, it was a miracle.
		The people that helped design that are from around Seattle here.
		In fact, I heard them talking.
		They said only because of the outside building being designed a certain way did it pancake, otherwise it would have fell over sideways.
		So we're extremely lucky because that would have killed a large number of people beyond what it did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Apparently, once the temperature got to 800 degrees or so, the metal melted and the rest then became inevitable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I wonder if the people inside the building in all of that time, because there was some indication, some people were told that everything was all right in the building, you know, on PA systems or fire systems or whatever they had, they were telling people it would be all right, and they might not have known it's not going to be all right.
unidentified		Yeah, I think there's a huge amount of chaos, and I don't really think people knew what was going on outside.
		Let me bring up two more quick things, and maybe hopefully the rest of the program, some other people might want to discuss this, and then I'll get off here.
		But since I work here in the town of Boeing, I talked to a friend of mine.
		I've only had one other person on the show bring this up who was a pilot.
		He said this could all have been prevented if the flight crews had not been taken over.
		Now, what I'm wondering is why no one is talking about, why we are not doing this, is reinforcing the bulkheads.
		And what I think we should be doing is what he said, is we should be putting a bulkhead on there with stainless steel and Kevlar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I always thought the cockpit doors were awfully flimsy, you know, on any plane I've been on.
unidentified		Yeah, there's simply no way that a passenger, there should not even be a handle on the outside of the passenger could even get in there.
unidentified		That's just a lot of people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All that said, though, sir, let me ask you about what you think about the people, the men of Flight 93.
unidentified		Oh, I agree with you.
		I believe that they were heroes.
		I don't know if we'll ever know for sure, but I believe that they were.
		In fact, a friend of mine even brought up an interesting thing we discussed today.
		The other flight did at the Pentagon, they know now from tracking it, it was headed for the White House, and they think it was going to go to the White House and the Pentagon with its backup.
		And he said, because you start to think about this, the people on there probably didn't know that most of those planes were going to be crashed because they just knew they were taking over.
		And the people heading for the White House, they were low enough, they might have figured out that they were going to crash it into the White House, and maybe there was a struggle because that plane slowed down and turned sideways.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they knew that one plane had already slammed into one of the towers.
		We know they knew that, and we know they took a vote.
		Can you imagine?
		Can you imagine?
		I mean, you would know almost for sure what would happen if you, without pilots, you know, just as a bunch of passengers who took a vote went up and rushed the cockpit.
		You know how that's going to turn out.
unidentified		I'm just saying, he was just saying that.
unidentified		Think of the psychic shocked nation if they'd crashed it straight into the White House.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I know.
unidentified		One other thing, Art, that maybe people want to comment on, I'll get off here.
		We were talking about bin Laden.
		Bin Laden is being given sanctuary in Afghanistan right now because they're no longer selling as many drugs and he's paying most of the cost for the Taliban.
		He also has camps in Pakistan and vis-a-vis, which we talked about last night with Ed Bames.
		I think we should all be thinking seriously now, and I think the Congress finally is, about terrorism and people coming into our ports and bringing in biologicals and weapons rather than missile shields.
		Vis-a-v, the Pakistani dictators, they have nuclear weapons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, we set up a war over there.
		You know, the problem that we have, and I don't know what we're going to do about this, you may have comments on it.
		Obviously, we're going to have to begin relinquishing some freedoms in order to have more security, period.
		That's a fact.
unidentified		Right.
		Some.
		But like I said, I'm worried about, you know, we could provoke an entire war over there if we get into Pakistan and maybe, you know, who knows what will happen, Afghanistan, and who knows what will happen because he has camps in Pakistan, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't it?
unidentified		Maybe the Pakistani dictator will hire Bin Laden's men, who he's trained 10,000 of, to sneak a nuclear weapon into one of our ports.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		Listen, I appreciate you, Paul.
		I know what you're saying, but last night I said to you, and I say again tonight, we have been shocked.
		We have been saddened, but we sure as hell have not been defeated.
		They're going to about to find out how undefeated we are as a nation.
		Sure, it knocked us down, but not out, not by a long shot.
		However, if as a result of what happened in New York, we have to virtually remove so many freedoms in our quest for safety that we become something other than what we are, you know, a constitutional republic.
		If so many freedoms are removed that the Constitutional Bill of Rights doesn't mean what it once did, then in a way, they win.
		So it's a real dilemma.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, how are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Martinez, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And your first name?
unidentified		My first name's Phil.
		Phil, okay.
		You know, I'm not going to go for the removing of freedoms.
		I'm going to go for excessive force against the perpetrators of the crime.
		I believe that you're right, that there is evil.
		And I believe that Allah is evil.
		And I think that we know who all the terrorists are around the world.
		We know what the organizations are, Hezbollah, Fatah, Bin Laden's one.
		We know who's harboring them.
		We know where their money goes and who has it.
		And I think the thing to do is to draw up a list of the leaders of these organizations and their lieutenants and their most active people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I want to stop you.
		I don't think Allah is evil.
		I think some who follow Allah and do things in Allah's name are evil.
unidentified		Well, they all profess a hatred of Christians and Jews and a need to convert the infidels.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, they don't all do that.
unidentified		It seems that way to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's because we're watching the press.
		You and I are watching the American press, which concentrates on that because it sells.
		But not all.
		That's a radical fringe.
		And listen, we've got radical fringe right here in good old US of A. No question about it.
unidentified		And I don't want to succumb to that radical fringe and lose my constitutional freedom.
		And I think what we can do is we can draw up a list of every known terrorist, and we can tender it to the Muslim countries and give them 72 hours or 10 days to deliver every one of those people to us, or we can take out Mecca for 1,000 years.
		And I think that is the way to go.
		And I think that we take that 72 hours or 10 days and saturate the world media with the idea that these people are doing it to themselves.
		If they lose Mecca, it's because they are causing the problem.
		And we're not going to let it go on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate that.
		But I think, again, military targets and infrastructure in Afghanistan, if it turns out that he's the guy and they're harboring him, that's the way I think it'll go down.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Open lines all night long.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You'd think that people would have had enough of silly love songs.
		I look around me and I see it isn't so.
		Some people wanna fill the world with silly love songs.
		And what's wrong with that?
		I'd like to know.
		The End To rechart Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with our bell on the Premier Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is.
		Good morning.
		We are not going to have a parade of experts on this show, nor a plethora of guests.
		However, if you have been a past guest on this show and have something you wish to contribute to the conversation, I will speak briefly with you, as I said last night.
		And that would apply, I suppose, to anybody in the category of some kind of expert or somebody who has something to contribute of exceptional quality.
		If that would be you, then you're welcome to call our network tonight.
		There's going to screen calls for me.
		I should have mentioned this last hour.
		And occasionally we may put somebody on.
		So my network in Medford, Oregon is area code 541-664-8829.
		You may call that number now, and they're going to act as kind of a screener for those that really do have a reason to be on the air.
		That's area code 541-664-8829.
		Otherwise, it'll be open lines all night long.
		In a moment, I've got a couple of very important things for you.
		Just breaking Associated Press, they're now saying that they believe as many as 50, I repeat, 50 people were involved in this plot to do what was done in New York.
		Now, you think about that a little bit.
		50 people involved.
		How could they possibly have kept anything quiet with 50 people involved?
		And yet that's what they're saying.
		All right, here we go.
		Very briefly, going to the mountains of New Mexico and Richard C. Hoagland, who has wants to say a word or two and has an announcement.
		Richard?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Arn.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It's been one hell of the last couple of days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it has.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I know you haven't been, and I haven't been sleeping well either.
		I keep falling asleep and then having weird dreams, and I think the whole country is in a kind of a paralysis.
		This is a turning point for something, and I just want to express my heartfelt feelings for the victims and their families, and for these.
		I mean, I really admired what you did for the guys on Flight 93, because I think they really were heroes.
		I think this is the one little ray that comes out of this.
		Under times of extraordinary duress, we find what we're really made of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a pretty big ray in my mind.
		It's incredible what they did.
		Having their families on board, knowing what was going to happen, they decided, obviously, to end their lives.
		I mean, that's as big a sacrifice as it gets.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And I also think that maybe the passengers on Flight 77 also should be thought of in a similar vein because according to Fleischer this afternoon, they had credible intelligence that that flight was, the one that hit the Pentagon, was headed for the White House.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And for some reason, it didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It diverted.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But, and this is important, Art, it hit the wrong side of the Pentagon.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And if you had the amount of planning, you just said AP's reporting 50 people involved.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		We know some of them were training as pilots 15 months ago now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, in Florida, I believe.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		An incredible degree of sophistication, organization, planning, money.
		I mean, this was extraordinarily well carried out.
		So why would you hit the wrong side of the Pentagon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		Why would you change targets?
		I don't know any of that.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		So those two things tell me.
		When I say the wrong side, I mean on the other side from the Navy side, which is where the aircraft hit, was the Secretary of Defense Office, Donald Rumsfeld, and the Joint Chiefs.
		If you're going to do this, obviously you'd be aiming to take out the top.
		So those two things indicate to me that there was some last-minute on that exactly, on that aircraft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe, but that's a maybe.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The other one we absolutely know because we know we took a vote.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Richard, I believe you have an announcement.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I just wanted to say that because of the gravity of the situation and because of the inappropriateness, I think, of doing anything but going through this as a community, as an American family, I've decided not to appear at the Bay Area UFO Expo in San Francisco this coming weekend.
		We put a notice on our website with appropriate condolences, as I said, the victims and their families.
		I've talked to some of the other speakers, and there is a definite sentiment that we should postpone this, and I would hope that people would think of it in that light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But at the very least, on your own personal part, you will not be there.
unidentified		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand completely.
		Richard, we'll be in touch.
		Thank you.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Thanks, Eric.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
		Richard C. Oglin, who will not be at that Bay Area conference.
		It's going to be hard for anything to happen.
		I mean, everything is being canceled.
		We seem to be of two minds about this.
		On the one hand, you may have noticed, everybody's urging everybody to try and get back to normal, whatever that is.
		I don't think it'll be quite normal again.
		You know, we turned some kind of corner with this, obviously.
		And on the other hand, we continue to cancel things, keep aircraft out of the air, and so forth and so on.
		So it's kind of a mixed message right now.
		I'm not sure how you can have normal.
		I understand the urge to try and return to it or something approximating it.
unidentified		But God, you've got to see this photograph.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm telling you.
		That Matt Massey said us.
		Actually, a number of people sent it to us, but Matt Massey is the one that grabbed us as the one we ought to put up.
		There's an evil face in this.
		It jumps right out at you.
		You don't need Mr. Massey's little diagram on the right of what appears to be the devil to clearly, clearly see what appears to be an evil entity in the middle of this impact picture on the building.
		You can see it by going to my website, arpell.com, under what's new, the 911 pictures.
		I think it's the second photograph down now.
		It'll hit you right in the face.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, my name's Damien.
		I'm from Atlanta.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I had a couple quick comments.
		First, the comment about the bulkheads not being strong enough on airplanes.
		Right.
		Well, they had to realize that, you know, from what we've been told so far, that they were trying to kill the stewardesses.
		They were trying to get the people out of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was what they did to bring the crew out, yes.
unidentified		And the other thing was, most people don't realize that, you know, from what we've seen in past terrorist attacks, that when they take over and hijack airplanes, they don't usually crash into buildings.
unidentified		So when the pilots perceived this threat, they weren't thinking that they were all going to die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're absolutely correct.
		They were thinking they were going to get hijacked and end up at another airport somewhere or a series of airports and that would end the way most hijackings end.
		So I'm with you.
		I understand that.
		Look, if you've got somebody who's willing to die to accomplish their ends, they're very hard to stop.
		And I'm not sure the ban on knives and all the rest of it could prevent something like this from occurring again.
		Maybe a series of things they could do might help.
unidentified		Yeah, I think maybe better training for the pilots and maybe having them stay in their cabinet at all possible costs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to admit, sir, what those people on flight 93 did that we do know about is astounding.
unidentified		Oh, absolutely.
unidentified		They should definitely be awarded the highest Medal of Honor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Medal of Honor, I think.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate your call.
unidentified		And I had one more comment.
		I was on the internet last night, and I know you're talking about Mr. Damas.
		And I had studied a little bit of his work before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think that's an accurate.
unidentified		No, no, no.
		I have right here what was said, and I agree with you.
		It's not accurate.
		What was on the internet, it says, in the city of God there will be great thunder, two brothers torn apart by chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb.
		Third big war will begin when the big city is burning.
		And then it also says, on the 11th day of the ninth month, two metal birds will crash into two tall statues in the new city, and the world will end soon after.
		And that really doesn't, that's not consistent with his writings.
		He usually doesn't have specific dates.
		He left it very open.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but some of it is accurate.
		It's sort of a seed of accuracy in there, I think, about the two brothers.
		I think there was something that knows traditional.
unidentified		What was really consistent, I visited several sites last night, was saying the new city would be attacked.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		New City is correct.
		And I think Two Twin Brothers was also in there.
		I'm not sure about that, but I think so.
		All right, sir.
		Thank you very much.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Wildcard line, you are on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Greg in San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Greg.
unidentified		You know, I was watching the coverage today, and when they mentioned that Air Force One was one of the targets, some of the commentators began to speculate that, well, one of these rogue airplanes was going to target Air Force One.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, they pinned him down on that.
		They said, look, those airplanes and their whereabouts were well accounted for.
		We knew where they were going, or at least they knew at that point where they were going, so they could not have gotten to Air Force One, so it had to be another threat.
		And they acknowledged, yes, there was some other threat, which they refused to talk about.
unidentified		Well, I think, well, see, well, that's good because I think what it was was they probably had some terrorists on the ground close to where they suspected Air Force One would come in with one of these handheld ground-to-air rockets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wouldn't surprise me.
unidentified		I mean, the CIA, the 60 Minutes, did a big story way back when that the CIA was supplying those things to the Afghani freedom fighters when they were taking on the Soviets.
unidentified		I mean, you got to imagine there was a few of those things left around after it was all over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stinger missiles.
		Yeah, that's right.
		They were left with many of them, man.
		You could be absolutely right.
		It could have been that kind of threat, sure.
unidentified		And they got a heads up on that, and then they just decided to turn that plane to get it out of the possible target range of a Stinger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Makes sense to me.
unidentified		You know, something else I wanted to mention, too, talking about what you mentioned before about our loss of freedoms, I saw Tom Daschell do a real short interview on one of the channels today, and he mentioned right off the bat that, hey, people, you are going to lose your freedoms.
		And right away I thought, boy, there goes the Bill of Rights right out the window.
		And I mean, we're going to be living like the Soviets did in the 80s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's, you know, at one end of the, you know, the radical possibilities of how all this could turn out, that there would be that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I hope it doesn't go that far because that means that they really won.
unidentified		Well, right.
unidentified		I mean, I hope it doesn't either, but it just seems like that's, you know, what's being prepared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, everybody's saying this is an attack on freedom and liberty and everything we stand for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if it turns us into something other than what we stood for and have been, then they really have won.
unidentified		Well, for the people who heard his wording, it just sent a chill down my spine.
		I thought, oh, here it comes.
		I hope it doesn't happen, but, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm with you, sir.
		Thank you.
		I hope that we can, in some way, increase security.
		Everybody's going to understand that.
		And right now, I understand that as much air rage as there has been around the country, almost everybody is in full, complete understanding of why they're not going anywhere right now.
		Why nobody's going anywhere right now.
		Why airshipments are stalled, stopped, and why passengers are either stranded or unable to move as they would have otherwise.
		Everybody understands.
		But it is eerie.
		Oh, God, it's eerie.
		You know, out here in the desert, we're right in McCarran's flight path to San Francisco.
		And so on any given day here, the sky is full of contrails and airplanes.
		And it's just eerie.
		It's silent.
		It's dead.
		I'm sure many, if not most of you, have experienced the same thing.
		It's really eerie.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi, Aries.
		This is Josh.
		I'm in Omaha.
		I'm a 22-year-old college student here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Josh.
unidentified		And I wanted to address the backlash right now in this country against Arab Americans.
		I myself, I'm half Lebanese, you know.
		Yes, sir.
		My family, like my dad, is full Lebanese.
		I have relatives that are.
		And what made me call is I just was in a gas station on the way home picking up snack, and I overheard two guys at the counter, and I caught into their conversation, and I heard, you know, that they were saying that we should kill them all and everything, and they were referring to Arabs and Arab Americans, even people within our country.
		And the word terrorist has become synonymous with Arab in this country right now.
		And I just want people to realize that terrorists, McVeigh was a terrorist.
		Stalin Hitler could be construed as terrorists.
		David Koresh, they didn't have any Middle Eastern descent or anything like that.
		And it's just sad that this is like a time when we need to come together most of all.
		And this is ripping us apart internally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These are base instincts.
		And I agree with you completely.
		It's horrible.
		I wonder how we change it, how we try for once not to go there.
		Or is that just impossible?
		Because they are such basic human instincts.
		What do you think?
unidentified		Well, yeah, I mean, people do want.
		They want somebody's head on the platter right now.
		They're not going to rest until somebody's crucified.
		And, you know, anger and stuff, it does get in the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but haven't we come a long way in America from wanting a head on the platter to wanting any head on the platter?
unidentified		Yeah, exactly.
		And that's where it crosses the line is when it becomes internal violence within our country, you know, and people getting, you know, I've seen all day on the news today death threats to different Arab organizations, you know, even Arab organizations who hang their own, you know, American flags outside their places to show their support, you know.
		And it's just, it's crazy.
		I want one thing I just, you know, I really think and I want everybody listening to know is if you are, you know, feel like that violently towards internal, you know, people inside our own country that are Arab Americans, then, you know, you're no different than the people who did this attack on America.
		You know, I don't think anyway, that might be just my opinion, but, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's my opinion, too.
		I very much appreciate your call, and I agree with you.
		Thank you.
		That's right.
		Then we don't differentiate.
		We don't delineate, do we, between those who did it and those of the same skin color or religious persuasion or whatever.
		And if we don't do that, then we're not much different, are we?
		And we are different.
		We don't kill innocent civilians.
		We don't try and go out and kill innocent civilians.
		And even when we do retaliate, even if it is massive, I would Expect, as I said earlier, for example, with respect to what we might do to the Taliban and Afghanistan, we would go after their military capability, which would be significant.
		We would go after their infrastructure, which could include some pseudo-civilian type things like power stations, infrastructure things, bridges, that sort of thing.
		There will be collateral damage, but the difference, albeit in the minds of some a small one, we don't try to kill civilians.
		We try to accomplish a goal.
		So we should be different.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Oh, that button is sticky.
		West of the Rockies, now you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is Quentin in San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, I guess I could continue where the last I left off.
		I think that this is a test of the hatred within everybody to, you know, to test our own seniority over our emotions.
		And I mean, the people who perpetrated this atrocity, that's how much they hate themselves already.
		And they're just wanting somebody else to take the blame for it.
		And I think I like your term, the quickening, because I think this is all part of the quickening.
		You know, as the vibration on the planet increases, we're going to see where there's hatred in the world and where there's love in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we're sure how we react to this is going to define who we are.
unidentified		Exactly.
unidentified		And I think that the biggest defense we have is to choose love at every turn because if we match that hatred, then we're just contributing more of that to the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, but I don't confuse that with no response.
		I am fully prepared to respond.
		And if this fellow did it, if there were 50 involved here in the U.S. and more in Afghanistan, if it turns out that's the way it is, then I have no problem going in and destroying all their military capability and most of the infrastructure of that country.
		Goodbye.
		I have no problem with that.
		Do you?
unidentified		I think that it's absolutely essential to put these kind of forces back in their place.
		They can't be invading.
		If people want to live in hatred, they've got to stew in it in their own misery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you're right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if, on the other hand, we take it out on Arab Americans, then we're not much different.
unidentified		No, we're not.
unidentified		And I'm really surprised how many people there are who confuse this fanaticism with the Islam religion or the Arab races.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know it's a, as I said, it's a base instinct of humanity.
		That's why they had lynch mobs.
		That's why people who would never have normally joined a lynch mob would suddenly get in, yes, bring them up.
		It's a base part of the human brain, you know, that early man brain.
		From the high desert, I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
		Coast to Coast AM All right, I'm now getting word that instead of nine survivors, as originally reported, there are only five survivors.
		That apparently, airing on CNN, I guess, my wife just handed this to me, that they said there are only five.
		I wonder how they could get that wrong.
		They have nine as the figure for, what, the last 15 hours or so.
		So now we learn it may be just five instead of nine.
		That's remarkable.
		Well, here's also a remarkable call for you.
		This is Steve on Canal Street in New York.
		Virtually, I understand, at ground zero.
		Is that true, Steve?
unidentified		Yeah, well, I mean, I'm at the last checkpoint, and I just came in from outside, and we can walk all the way down to Chambers Street, right, where you listen to it and the...
unidentified		It's not America here at the moment, you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it really?
		That's yours?
		They're checking passports?
unidentified		Well, yeah, they're checking ID.
unidentified		You can't get into the neighborhood unless you're a, you can't get below 14th Street unless you're in the neighborhood, and the checkpoints get more and more severe as you go downtown.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you've got to have more and more of a reason to be there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you are at the last checkpoint.
unidentified		Yeah, I've got a decent piece of real estate here in Tribeca.
		And, you know, I mean, I live and work in the same place like a lot of the artists that have been down here, and they kind of blew up our neighborhood.
		I saw the second one fall.
		I stood there and watched with all my neighbors, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Steve, I saw Fox go in virtually to ground zero earlier today, and it appears not to be just the Twin Towers, but damn near 10 blocks on each side.
unidentified		No, no, not 10 blocks.
		It's, you know, they fell straight down.
		So you've got, they haven't even, like, all the windows blew out on the other side of the West Side Highway, but those buildings should survive.
		And it's just cutting over to Broadway and Liberty Street right now.
		And of course those things are going to come down.
		I mean, the news you must be getting elsewhere, but there's just so many, like, it's just, I mean, we just came in from outside.
		I have not gone south from my house until tonight.
		And we took a walk down there.
		We hung out in the old school bar was open.
		And it was a weird mix of people.
		I mean, you had firefighters, you had people getting off duty, Con Ed, you had the locals all in there.
		And it was just, that was, it was like going into a church, you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And, you know, the only ones helling in here right now are the National Guard, but I think they're doing all the work.
unidentified		So, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said it smelled like a crematorium.
unidentified		Yeah, right now I'm sitting out, I'm walking out into my street because I've got a ground floor, a big, I've got a whole ground floor here.
		And my street is one block south of Canal, so all the police have turned into their parking lot, you know, and this is where, like, they coordinate and they sleep in their vans before they go back down.
		And it's weird, you walk around, it's just zombies.
		And it's like, I don't want to go above Canal Street because it's normal up there.
		And everywhere else in America, it's sort of normal.
		And I mean, my business shut down.
		I'm just sitting here.
		I mean, all my neighbors came out.
		We played baseball a little bit, but we're New Yorkers, so then we said goodbye.
		Everybody's just a zombie and it's weird because everyone in the neighborhood, the neighborhood's filled with people, but they're all strangers to the neighborhood.
		So I walk out with my dog and even though I'm like below this line, it's like I'm a, you know, you know, it's sort of like I'm familiar with the place, you know?
		Yeah, sure.
		What I said, some of the interesting things I saw was this one guy talked to me as, like, we saw the second building fall down, and it was like a wave of people coming from downtown, uptown, half covered in soot and stuff.
		And then they all sort of left and got quiet, and then it was like a wave pulling back, and all these people with cameras and onlookers and like almost vermin came flying back into the neighborhood, you know?
		You know, everybody's pushed out above Canal Street, and I can just walk around.
		I can walk anywhere I want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
		Steve, to me, it looked like, you know, all the movement of the people you were talking about.
		I saw those photographs myself.
		It looked like a scene out of Armageddon.
unidentified		See, I had no idea.
		Since a few hours after it happened, they cut off cable and everything down here.
		I've got AM radio and my computer, but I haven't seen any visuals since I saw it live and then a couple of hours of tape afterwards.
		So I haven't been cut off any visuals, so it's only when I'm remembering an AM radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the rest of New York actually may return to, in quotes, normal a little quicker than the rest of the country.
unidentified		That's right, I know.
		Any second, they're all there.
		I'm already getting calls from uptown wanting me to work.
		You know, and I'm like, I had to turn down a, I'm a photographer to turn down a cover shoot.
		I couldn't get a Dunkin' Donuts cup because they blew up my Dunkin' Donuts.
		And that was one of the things I had to photograph in the shot.
		I had to pass it off.
		And I can't work anyway because I'm like living it.
		It's like they root out here.
		It's dusty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly what it looks like to me.
unidentified		A piece of skin fell on me today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A piece of skin.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
		Floated down.
		I looked at it.
		Dust fell on my nose.
		I picked it up and it had the little hash marks in it.
		And as the wind changes here, it gets stinky and then you air out the house.
		You know, the best thing that somebody said to me was one of the guys running up, sort of in shock.
		He had seen a whole bunch of people fall out the building.
		He was right across the street at the three financial center, whatever it was, a messenger guy.
		And on his way up, he said he saw this very well-dressed businessman, and he was just shocked.
		He's like, how are you?
		And he was a friend of his.
		They talked to each other all the time.
		And he said, you know, what's going on?
		And the guy just looked up and said, my brother's on the 101st floor.
		And then the thing fell down.
		This guy came, this messenger dude, he found an old lady that was like really just trying to get out of there, pushed people out of the way, got her out, and they ended up talking with me and my neighbors on the corner for quite a while.
		And he said, you know, I just got this job and I love coming to work every day.
		Every day I'd come in and I'd look up and it'd be like two gold bricks shining in the sun.
		You know, talking, you know, they got a little crackhead, and I let go of them.
		But it's...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's like a face with a couple of teeth missing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's the damnedest thing to even look at.
unidentified		The bar I was just at has been there for a long time, and there's old photos all over the place without the Twin Towers in it.
		And it was kind of interesting, you know?
		Then we had a scare earlier that, you know, something was going on at Empire State Building.
		It just sort of dawned on me.
		If that went away, I mean, we'd look like the rest of the, you know, we wouldn't look like who we are here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you wouldn't look like New York anymore, that's for sure.
unidentified		And the thing about it, too, it's like New York is such an international place.
		It's, I don't know, regardless of politics and lots of different things, obviously we are a target, and those two big trophies were a target.
		But it just seems like New York would be the one place the rest of the world wouldn't have a problem with.
		There is no racism, honestly, here.
		You know, we're not going to be able to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's too much of a melting pot for that.
		Too much of a melting pot for that.
		So there really isn't all that racism.
unidentified		It just seems like what a weird target to be.
unidentified		You know, it's, yeah, obviously we are the target, you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		New York and Washington, D.C. New York as the financial capital and Washington, D.C. as the political capital, obviously.
		Yes.
		Simple as that.
		Steve, thank you.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Steve, just about a gram zero in New York.
		Of course.
		I mean, what they hit and why they hit it are obvious.
		The financial capital and the political capital.
		What's missing, though, is why?
		What national policy of the United States do they want changed?
		What demands are they making?
		Isn't it odd that there would be such a large, complicated terrorist action and there would not be some sort of verifiable claim and then of course the usual diatribe of what they want changed?
		Otherwise, all we can suppose is that the motive and the only motive for doing this was to scare the hell out of us.
		And so you might infer from that that the further motive would be to turn this into a sort of a police state to, through fear, achieve what could be achieved no other way, and that is have us turn our back on our own freedoms.
		Something to think about.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Jeff in Yuba City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Jeff.
unidentified		I have a large Arab-American population in our area, and I have a teenage boy, and I don't want him to have misdirected anger and such.
		But the media shows Palestinians dancing in the streets over this psychotic, horrendous act, you know, where they've killed innocent women and children.
		And I don't know how to explain to him that he shouldn't hate these people the way they hate us.
		They're showing women and children partying over the death of our loved ones.
		And if anyone has any suggestions on how this is supposed to be justified in the eyes of my child.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would love to hear it.
		Well, you know, I think what you might have to do is sit down and talk to your child about hatred, about human instincts, and about hatred.
		And I don't know how else you do it, because you're right.
		The images are going to absolutely provoke that.
		In a primitive part of our brain, there's going to be a reactionary lynch mob mentality instantly.
		And I don't know how you...
		And I don't know.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		I'm having trouble dealing with these feelings myself, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I went to get gas in the morning, and a guy pulls up in a turbine, and I actually started walking towards his car.
		And I realized it was the old guy from the Quickie Mart, and I got a grip on myself, but it really sickens me, you know.
		And I think if I was an Arab American at this point, I would dress up like a Mexican or stay in hiding or something because I'm a very peaceful, passive, rock and roll guitar player guy, nonviolent.
		And I am having these feelings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear you, and I take your call really to heart.
		Thank you.
		I do really take that call to heart.
		And you should too.
		It may well be that for the great masses, there is no, we are not yet to the point where we can successfully deal with our own primitive feelings.
		Oh, I don't know.
		That's pretty scary to hear him talk about that.
		That's pretty scary in a way, isn't it?
		And yet it's also, at a base level, very understandable, but scary.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
unidentified		This is Terry in Mobile, Alabama.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Terry.
unidentified		I have the correct quatrain for you, the one that all the Nostradomics experts said after the 93 explosion applied.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, you heard me read what's flying around on the internet, right?
unidentified		They made that up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm sure they did.
unidentified		Thomas Quatrain.
unidentified		I have a number of books.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, read it to us.
unidentified		Sir, Century 10, Quatrain 49.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, go ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm listening.
unidentified		Go ahead.
		Century 10, Quatrain 49.
		Garden of the world near the new city.
		In the path of the hollow mountain.
		It will be seized and plunged into the vat, drinking by force the waters poisoned by sulfur.
		After the 93 bombing, this is the one that all the experts put into their books.
		It's the one that refers to the Twin Towers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't hear a reference to the Twin Towers in what you just read.
unidentified		Okay, the New City, New York, Garden of the World, Garden State, New Jersey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got that.
unidentified		Okay, Hollow Mountain is how Nostradamus describes things he can't understand, skyscrapers.
unidentified		Well, that's a Nostradamus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a leap.
unidentified		Right.
		And I think the one on the internet is just totally invented.
		I think they're all a leap.
		The man wrote everything so ambiguous you could apply it to almost anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he was trying not to get killed.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I used to work on the flight line in an international airport, and it's extremely difficult to get any kind of a weapon onto an airplane.
		The tools that I used in doing my job...
		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And where there could be no weapons, there are weapons, and they kill people with shanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They stab them with these sharpened objects in jail.
unidentified		Well, I'm not a criminal.
		I know how to take a gun onto an airplane because of the training I got before I worked on the flight line.
		And because of that, I'm sure that anyone doing their job will prevent such a thing from happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know that such a thing can be prevented.
		That's what I was just trying to say.
		If somebody is willing to give their life for a cause, if they're willing to die for a cause, then they stand a better than even chance of getting away with it.
		And that's how this happened, I think.
		These people were more than willing and prepared to die to achieve their goals.
		And in three of the aircraft, they did.
		In one of the aircraft, they didn't.
		So what is that?
		A 75, a 25 chance of success if you're willing to give up your life?
		They can prevent knives.
		They won't give out steak knives anymore, not even to the first-class passengers.
		Well, I suppose where there's a will, there's a way.
		And so ultimately, how we deal with this, I just don't have the slightest idea, and I'm sure the people in authority are grappling with that exact problem.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Arn.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm all right, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Geez, you know what?
unidentified		The last few days, I feel like I'm in a dream.
		None of this seems real, and I can't believe this is happening.
		It's just unreal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		I feel the same way.
		I go through long periods of sort of disbelief, and I'm sure, sort of a continued state of shock about this.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I walk the streets.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		You could hear a pin drop on the ground.
unidentified		Everybody's quiet.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		No one's talking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm in North Hollywood, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		North Hollywood, all right.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So even there, it's that quiet.
unidentified		Yeah, it's quiet.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		People are walking around just looking at each other.
unidentified		And I see other people, you know, some people that look maybe Middle Eastern.
		It's ironic.
		I see people staring at them really hard, like with hatred.
		I'm like, my God, what's happening to us?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Steve was wrong about one thing.
		Steve from New York, who was on here a little while ago, almost to ground zero, he was wrong about one thing.
		The rest of the country has not yet, by a long shot, despite calls for it returned to normal.
		We're not back to normal.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not the slightest.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		What's really scary about this, I'm not really scared about what happened in New York.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I'm scared.
unidentified		Our country, this is the gem of a country.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		We're so clean, and our country has never been touched.
		It's been seriously scarred, and it's been knifed, basically, in a horrible way.
		And this has never happened before.
unidentified		The only thing that comes close to it is when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So everybody has said, but it's my view that this is a far more cowardly act than was Pearl Harbor.
		I think you're going to find more people were killed in this attack than Pearl Harbor.
		But in this attack, the difference is that they went after civilians, innocent civilians, women, children, business people.
		It was a civilian target, at least at Pearl Harbor, though it was a dastardly sneak attack.
		The Japanese were trying to disable our military capability to project power into the Pacific for obvious reasons with the war beginning, right?
		In New York, there was no such effort.
		This is pure terror.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Well, it's not 100% pure terror because they hit our thinking tank, the Pentagon.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		That's where all the people, the men and women, think and design ways of counterattacking the countries in case they do attack.
unidentified		If they attack the Pentagon, that spells out war.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		The President of the United States is just, the media is now being issued to change the words on the screen from where it says terror in America to America under attack.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Tomorrow in the next few days, that's going to be on all the screens.
unidentified		It's going to be America under attack.
		The terror word is going to be removed from it.
		It's going to switch to America Attack.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Under attack, so that psychologically we begin thinking about this in a new way.
unidentified		That's correct.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And right now, I've talked to a few friends in the media, and they think absolutely positively for sure.
unidentified		You remember what we did to Japan?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		This country is going to take anything like this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We always, when someone harms us or threatens us, sir, can you hold on?
unidentified		Yes, I can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we've got a break coming up that I can't avoid.
		Stay right there.
		From the high desert, in open lines all night long, this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Though I would not give the false hope on the strange market, but the buttons shine the old young whose only emotional rainbow.
		I care for the life of me.
		Remember a better day and all that they let me just what you wanted to say.
		Only to realize it never really was as she rides through her following.
		Everybody else will surely know to rechart bell in the Kingdom of Nigh.
		From west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is.
		Due to the loading on my website right now, it's down to an absolute crawl.
		So please be understanding.
		It's just absolutely getting slammed.
		And if the powers that be out there, which are by the servers, would please do something about it, we would appreciate it.
		We understand we're getting slammed.
		But let's pay attention out there.
		All right, listen, in a moment, the world's expert on Nostradamus with us for a quick moment to straighten us out on what's going out all over the internet.
		This wild thing that Nostradamus supposedly said that is only partially correct, a nugget of truth in it.
		We'll find out what the whole truth is because I've got the expert on Nostradamus, the world expert John Hogue coming on in a moment.
		As promised, the man who is regarded by many as the world's expert on Nostradamus, I'm sure, will have something to say about what's going around on the internet right now, supposedly quoting a Nostradamus quatrain sounding just like what happened in New York.
		Hello there, John.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John Hogue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, have you been getting copies of this?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		My website, like yours, has been slammed starting from 5 o'clock this morning from Britain and Daily Mirror in London to people from Singapore, India, everywhere, asking me, is this prophecy that's going around about the city of York, etc., is it real?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is this really what Nostradamus said?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the answer to that is?
unidentified		Absolute fraud.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I thought.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It is a fraud.
		I have looked through my computer graphics of all 36,000 words of everything Nostradamus ever said in prophecy.
		It is absolute fraud.
		It never was written in 1564, as it presumes in some of the indexes of this prophecy in internet explanations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you this, John.
		When I read it, it sounded authentic.
		Now, I thought there's probably a seed of something he did say within all of this, is there?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, there is, because I think this is the same Fool who put out the village idiot prophecy during the presidential election controversy.
		And I think he's learned his lesson a little more.
		And what he's done now is taken a line from here and from there of authentic Master Dhammas prophecies.
unidentified		Okay.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Taken them completely out of context.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What part of this is authentic in any way?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, the bits and pieces of it are from century 10 of Quatrain 72 about the year 1999, seven months.
		The king of terror will descend from the skies.
		That's been stolen from there.
		Some of the issues about two great brothers at war, that's been stolen from the Castor Pollock's prophecies about Hungary and the Hungarian Revolution.
		And a few other things with insertions that link it all together that are totally spurious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so he just cherry-picked a bunch of stuff and made up the rest of it, and that's what it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so everybody can regard it as a fraud.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And I would only add that this is the kind of thinking that a fundamentalist mind does with all kinds of scriptures, whether it be the Quran or the Bible or Nostradamus.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		They put their bias and their prejudice and they find the things that suit it, and they pluck it like a ransom note and put it together and frighten the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, thank you.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		You're welcome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, my friend.
		So there you've got it from the expert on Nostradamus.
		When that one shows up in your email, you can just delete it like you would a virus.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing all right, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Atlanta, Georgia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Yeah, the first thing I wanted to say, I'm just totally outraged about all the innocent people that died and people that are rejoicing and parading around.
		You know, that just irks me.
		And I was watching the news tonight, and they were saying one hijacker was trained at a U.S. flight school.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It may be more than one.
unidentified		Maybe more than one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Yes, they're looking into flight schools in Florida and elsewhere.
		Presently, that's true.
unidentified		I mean, I believe, I hope Bush will do the right thing just to go in there and clear them out that are responsible for all this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I mean, what would you see done?
		Clear out.
		What do you mean?
unidentified		I mean, just cut them out.
		I mean, get rid of them.
		Take them off the face of the earth.
		And if they could make a law of letting, you know, not letting the Iranians or Iraqians or Palestinians ever step foot in this country, that would solve a lot of problems, I believe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So just don't let any more Palestinians or Arab extraction people in?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that what you're saying?
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
		Yeah.
		No.
		I mean, yes, that's what I'm saying, but never to let them step foot in our country.
		Because, you know, they take over, you know, they, you know, get these businesses going.
		You know, it's taken, you know, from the United States, you know, the people of the United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I hope.
unidentified		You there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not necessarily happy with what I'm hearing from you, but I'm here.
unidentified		Well, I'm sorry that you're not happy.
unidentified		I'm young.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you're young.
unidentified		You're an American.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're young.
		What you're doing is indicting an entire people for what a fringe radical group has done.
		Now, there may be cause to, as the president said, go after the government that harbors these murderers, these terrorists, but that doesn't mean to go after a whole people as you would do there.
		That's exactly, frankly, what I've been talking about tonight and others have been talking about tonight.
		God, that's dangerous.
		It's our primal selves.
		I understand that, but we can't do that.
		Not without being what they are.
		Or turning ourselves into something other than what we thought we were or are.
		We've always had our hands open to the world's underprivileged people.
		And I know it's not popular, politically popular these days to retain those sentiments, but they were written there for a reason.
		And if these terrorists manage to change us into a police state so we're all safe for our own good, or they turn us into haters so much that we turn into a virtual lynch mob, then they have succeeded.
		I'm all for a heavy response, but an appropriate response.
		An appropriate response is to go after these people, bin Laden and company, and kill them.
		Now, what might that mean?
		Let's fully understand what might that mean?
		Does that mean safe, easy, let's push the button on cruise missiles?
		No, it means more than that.
		We've missed bin Laden that way plenty of times.
		What we will have to do if we really want to get him is to go in and get him.
		To put U.S. Marines, as we always have, on the ground in Afghanistan, no small matter, and go and get him and kill him.
		Or bring him back and put him on trial and kill him.
		Then as far as the country of Afghanistan and other countries that have harbored people like this, if that's what turns out to be true, and it's certainly going in that direction, we have every right then to take apart their military capability, take apart their infrastructure.
		But we dare not go beyond that.
		We dare not begin killing civilians because then we are as they are.
		And so that kind of call just really scares the hell out of me.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hey, I'm still on hold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Yeah.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, as I was finishing that, all the news media put an attack on America.
		This terrorist word is gone, and we're going to go and we're going to do something.
		Like I said, Pearl Harbor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
		I should have come back to you.
		I did put you on hold.
		I apologize.
		I'm sorry.
		Yeah, you're exactly right.
		They began this as terrorism comes to America with a lot of other headlines, and now it's attack on America everywhere.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		That's correct, because they're trying to follow what Bush is doing right now.
unidentified		He's meeting with a bunch of different countries right now and connecting up, making sure that they support us, because what we're about to do, a lot of people will look at it just as bad as they are, because there's going to be casualties what we're going to do.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		If you remember Pearl Harbor, why the world looks at us.
		The Japanese attacked us.
		We used a new technology called the A-bomb on them, and it dropped them to their knees, and it stopped it.
		If we do not do anything radical, it's going to happen again.
		Remember, that building was attacked once, and we let it go.
unidentified		We said, okay, we're going to bring it back to justice.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And look what happened now.
unidentified		They killed 50,000 Americans.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		We're going to have to send a message.
unidentified		We're going to have to tell the world that, hey, if you ever do this to America, and this is what's going to happen to you, we're going to do something that the whole world's going to go, oh, my God, they're serious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what we're going to do.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		We're going to do something incredibly serious, and the whole world's going to be just as scared and just as shaken about what we experienced just right now.
unidentified		Our country is going to take this ever from anyone, ever again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you think that before we do anything at all, before we attack or whatever it is we're going to do, that we get a regular old declaration of war?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		We may.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		He's looking moving forward towards a declaration of war.
unidentified		That's what he's moving on right now.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And this will be, he's going to do something fast, quick, and something that gets a big response from the whole world.
unidentified		And there's many other factions of this terrorist group, not just one, that are multifaceted.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		We can't attack them all.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It'd take too much time.
unidentified		They'd bankrupt our country, take them out attacking all these points.
		We can't do it.
		We have to hit one target so damn hard that the rest of these terrorists that want to plan on doing this again are going to think twice.
		They're never going to do it again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We want to scare the crap out of them.
unidentified		That's what George Bush is planning to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
		I'm all for doing that, but I don't think that what we can do is to just sort of, for example, go after civilians, for example, drop a nuclear weapon on Kabul or something like that.
		We can't do something like that.
unidentified		Pakistan, I don't know.
		Maybe they'll fly over and drop letters on that area and say, look, innocent citizens, leave this area now.
		There's going to be a major event that will happen in this particular area.
		Just evacuate the city.
		We did that with Japan, I believe.
		We dropped letters that stated, you know, get out of this particular area, something's going to happen.
		We don't want innocent people hurt any more than anyone else does, but there has to be a message sent that America can't be touched like this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I appreciate your call.
		I don't agree with your comments.
		I don't think we can do that.
		I think that we can have it.
		We can certainly, and we do have the power to initiate a devastating attack.
		I mean, you can take a country apart without intending to kill innocent civilians.
		There's always what's called collateral damage, and there are going to be innocents who die.
		But it's intent that matters, and we don't have to intend to kill civilians.
		Because if we do, then how do we measure the difference between what we're doing and what they did?
unidentified		Huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If we drop an atomic bomb or something on civilians, how do we measure the difference between them and us?
		No, I think we can hit very, very hard without doing that.
		I think we can deliver an unmistakable message to any country that would harbor people who would do something like this.
		Absolutely unmistakable.
		But not that.
		East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
		Hello?
		Yes, I wanted to say that I think the American people are being led around by the nose like fools by the corporate media in this country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In what way?
unidentified		In the way that all of these so-called experts you talk about are proven psychological warfare liars.
		These people in the CIA and the different alphabet shadow government organizations call Bull 3-1-800-825-5033.
		Top officers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I see.
unidentified		All right, hold on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You need not give me a litany of names.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'd rather you don't, actually.
unidentified		No, I'm talking about former officers who've come out of the cold and have said that their own agencies have lied, have peddled propaganda to justify bellicose operations against countries around the world, have fabricated propaganda.
unidentified		And I think people who know better are pretending not to know better throughout the media.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen, no question about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We propagandize our own people, always have, just the way every other country of the world does with their people.
unidentified		I think it's particularly dangerous right now.
unidentified		I think if you're going to serve the public, you should have somebody on from Covert Action Magazine, some of these former CIA and DIA officials.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Haven't you noticed?
		I'm not doing that stuff.
		I'm leaving that to others.
unidentified		Well, check out Covert Action Magazine and their org website because I think what we're going to find out here is that this is a deliberate plan to threaten what's left of our democratic rights.
		I think the people in the Pentagon and these demagogic politicians in the White House and Congress are drooling at the prospect of seizing on and twisting and perverting this situation, leaving out the fact that the United States has, contrary to what you said, killed millions of people around the world, from the 3 million people in Indochina with saturation bombing, with flachette bombs, with Agent Orange in Indonesia and in Latin America.
		Millions were killed as a result of CI overthrows of governments, the support of an arming and training and creation of death squad regimes that have killed hundreds of thousands of people in Guatemala, El Salvador, Latin America, and for instance now in Iraq.
		According to Progressive magazine, they've got an article by a man who's got DIA defense intelligence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pause.
		Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.
		Pause for a moment.
		Take a deep breath.
		If you had been the guy in charge during the years that there was an honest-to-God challenge, are you there?
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
		Excuse me.
		Go ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Being that quiet causes you to tumble, right?
unidentified		No, I just got my phone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we'll try it again.
		If you'd been the guy in charge during the years that communism was flourishing and spreading, because that was the only way it could survive, and you were in charge of liberty, freedom, and the American way, what would you have done?
		I know that we overthrew some governments.
		I know that we did.
unidentified		I don't believe it had anything to do with protecting our freedoms.
		Well, sure it did.
		If you look at it, it had nothing to do with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sir, if the communists wanted to take over the world, which they did, you do acknowledge that, don't you?
unidentified		I absolutely do not, because the United States had the thousands of bases around the world as projected forces, whereas they had their forces around their borders primarily.
unidentified		The amount that the United States in support of U.S. transnational corporations had around the world was totally different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		in other words, then you don't think the action, for example, that we took in Korea was justified?
unidentified		No, I think people have got to see the hidden history of the true history of something like that.
unidentified		And in Afghanistan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'd like to point out to you, listen, I appreciate your calls.
		Goodbye.
		But there are hidden histories on both sides.
		And I know that we haven't been angels.
		I know that we have had covert operations.
		And we've overthrown governments or had them overthrown.
		And we've done our own assassinations and all the rest of it.
		Anybody who would think otherwise is naïve.
		But to suggest we are the evil incarnate, and then probably to go on and suggest that what happened in New York is just punishment for that evil nature and the evil that we have done throughout the world is crazy.
		Absolutely crazy.
		We have behaved as we've had to behave internationally.
		We've been dealing with the Russians and the Chinese now and many others who do not wish us well.
		And we've had to get down there in the trenches and fight with them.
		And that's not always a pretty thing.
		And so we have not always acted in a pretty way.
		But still, as I look at our Constitution, even our corporate nations, yeah, I'm on your side there.
		Sure, we're a nation of corporations, so what?
		We do have something that the rest of the world does not have, by and large.
		We have these precious freedoms.
		You and I may certainly agree that they're to some degree threatened by what's going on right now.
		The rest of it sounds like party line to me.
		Oh, West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello there.
		Hi.
		My name's Mary Ellen, and I'm calling from Southeast Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Mary Ellen.
unidentified		And I just, it's been very conspicuous by its absence.
unidentified		But I looked it up in the almanac and discovered that September the 11th was Muhammad's birthday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		Really?
		Um, I did not know that.
unidentified		Like I say, it's been conspicuous by its absence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nobody's mentioned it, huh?
unidentified		Not a soul.
unidentified		Television, radio, nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now you have.
		I have not heard it before.
		No one's mentioned it to me, so about its conspicuous absence, you're absolutely right.
		I really appreciate your calling our attention to that.
unidentified		Thank you for taking my call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very welcome.
		Thank you for making it.
		I'm Art Bell from the High Desert.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		I've been drifting on the sea of heartbreak, trying to get myself ashore for so long for so long.
		Listen to the strangest stories.
		Wondering where it all went wrong for so long.
		For so long.
		You shouldn't worry after that ain't no crime.
		Cause if you get it wrong, you'll get right next time.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Open lines all night long, probably all this week.
		We're not having guests as we normally do.
		A few words from a few people every now and then, but by and large, all of you out there.
		I'm going to be the outlet that holds open lines.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		Stay right where you are.
		Boy, this topic is kind of like the unexplained itself, isn't it?
		We've got a photo on the website right now that's a knockout, but the website has essentially been knocked out.
		You may get through as the morning wears on, or if not, just chuck it in and get to my website tomorrow when we get the service back.
		We're working hard on that right now.
		I mean, we really got slammed.
		So bear with us.
		There's a photo a lot of people want to see there, an unretouched photograph showing an evil face.
		I mean, it doesn't take somebody explaining to you what it is.
		It just hits you right in the eye.
		That's as the plane impacted the building.
		It's the damnest thing you ever saw.
		And I repeat, unretouched.
		You can check it out for yourself and compare it to the original.
		Going now to a familiar voice to all of you, more recently than me, it's been a while.
		Stan Dale, who was in Australia and now has repatriated himself.
		He's back.
		Stan, welcome.
unidentified		Thank you, Art.
		It's good to be back.
		And are you doing better yourself with your back?
		I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's one of those things that comes and goes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's still with me, Stan, so it's a day-to-day thing, but you know, I'm dealing with it.
unidentified		Well, I'm certainly glad to hear you're back online.
		It's really kind of sad times to be talking, isn't it?
		Yes.
		This fella, Ben Laden, that they're kind of pinning this thing on, back in February of 98, you know, he put a fatwa on.
		I don't know whether anybody said that yet, but put a religious decree so that they like the jihad against the Jews and Crusaders.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's essentially like our, like, well, this was an act of war.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Essentially, they declared war, and we have not yet.
unidentified		Well, he did us back in 98.
		I can't understand why he comes out and says, oh, he didn't do this.
		He's told everybody else that works for him or wants to ally themselves with him to go get us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And, you know, Holly and I put together about a five-part series on nuclear biological threats to the United States, and he featured really high right there in the middle of it.
		In fact, if you can go to our website, we've got a link up there straight to that five-part series.
		And just click on the second one about Osama bin Laden.
		You can see there's another evil face on that one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, he's got the will.
		He's got the ability.
		He's got the resources.
		He's got the money.
		And, you know, you could convict somebody of a crime without much evidence.
		Just circumstantial.
		People get convicted many times of murder on circumstantial evidence.
		And most of it's there, motive, means, opportunity.
		It's all there.
unidentified		Well, even out of his own mouth.
		I mean, you know, I can't see how people can't see this.
		I mean, we've been trying to warn people for some time, you know.
		Actually, I'll tell you what, I found out something the other day, which is quite interesting.
		Here at the United States, there is a group that's been formed to fight terrorism and to prepare for terrorism attacks, and it's been operational for some time.
		And you can see it on their government website.
		It's www.tswg.gov.
		And if you want to see some real clout, you go see who sits on that board of directors under Colin Powell and what they do.
		It's mighty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how do you suppose, Stan, that with all of these organizations and all of our government agencies, we've managed not even to get a sufficient whiff of this to act?
unidentified		I don't know that that was exactly true.
unidentified		They've caught a lot of other guys, as you know, since...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did we have warning of this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Specifically?
unidentified		Well, not specifically, no.
		I think that they knew something was coming down.
		They were trying to figure out where it was coming from.
		But this department that we've got there have caught a lot of others that you just haven't heard about with the biochem stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm well aware that even our the FBI, for example, has caught many, many people who are on their way to do no good here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you don't hear a whole lot about the successes, just big failures like this.
unidentified		Well, yeah, this one, okay.
		And it was certainly a bad one to slip through the cracks.
		But by the same token, I've got to tell you that they've caught a lot of them that we haven't heard about.
		And you can't just say everything out in the press about what you caught them doing because you don't want to encourage any copycat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you see us doing soon?
unidentified		Well, where we live out here in southern Colorado, for instance, they have put extra guards on everything.
		Even the military here who've gone to get back on base can't do it if they were off base when the terrorist attack hit.
		They're having to stay out in civilian land because unless they have a critical or mission critical job, they can't get back on the base.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're seeing lots of security?
unidentified		Oh, lots.
unidentified		And there's a whole big mustard gas and chemical warfare storage depot south of us, about 20 miles, with hundreds of buried, well, you know, mustard gas things and other things they had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, suppose they'd hit a dove a plane into that or one of our nuclear plants or something.
unidentified		Well, it wouldn't be good.
		It wouldn't be good.
		And so I see what I see is probably going to be necessary is a kind of limited form of martial law in some places.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Continues.
		Stan, I'm in open line, so I can't keep you on for a long time, but we'll arrange a show.
		We'll do a whole show, Stan.
unidentified		Hey, sounds good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		Good night.
		That's scary stuff.
		That's really scary stuff.
		Because it's where we may inevitably be going, but God, it's scary.
		I said it yesterday on the program.
		I'll say it again.
		I've traveled around the world many times, actually.
		Been very fortunate.
		And a lot of countries you go to, as a routine thing, you see people in the street everywhere with submachine guns.
		It's very unsettling for an American.
		And that may be where we're headed here.
		If we are going to really be able to protect ourselves against, I guess, you know, what's coming, what's already begun.
		What's coming.
		We used to say what's coming, right?
		It's already happened.
		If we're going to protect ourselves against this in every way, then we're going to turn into an armed camp.
		And with it, a lot of our freedoms are going to disintegrate.
		A lot of what's in the Bill of Rights isn't going to be right anymore.
		International Line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		Well, I guess it's good evening here from Busan, Korea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Korea?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, welcome to the program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Glad to have you.
unidentified		Now, just checking in from here and letting you know that all the expat community here, we're losing probably more sleep than people in America because the CNN news happens during our nighttime here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, actually, the CNN news is now going on 24 hours a day and probably will continue to do so, but I understand what you're saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're in the military there?
unidentified		No, I'm a lawyer here in Korea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're a lawyer?
unidentified		Just a member of the expat community.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's it like hearing about something of this magnitude and being that far away?
unidentified		I mean, at first I was driving home when I heard about it.
		It was about 11.30 at night here.
		I was driving home.
		I heard something on the radio.
		I went into a tunnel and missed it.
		And when I came out of the tunnel I called my friend and said, hey, check this out for me.
		Let me know.
		My radio is on the fridge here because I keep going through tunnels.
		He called me back.
		And of course, I thought he was joking.
		I thought he was just feeding me a line.
		And then I got my radio signal back and listened to it.
		And it was just stunning.
		Sometimes the words like unbelievable or incomprehensible, sometimes words are so weak to really describe what you feel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's because they're overused.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's just that in this case, they really, really apply.
unidentified		And then the buildings collapsed as soon as I got home and turned on the TV.
		What do you say other than, my God?
		There's really nothing else you can say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure that you've heard some of the people calling in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are some pretty severe reactions, both to people of Arab nationality and to calls for virtual carpet bombing, if not nuclear warfare, that kind of thing.
unidentified		You know, and I'm glad there's not a lot of that going on here in Korea.
		Korea is actually very, very quiet.
		I don't know if it's something that I'm projecting onto society, but it really seems like the atmosphere here for the past couple of days has been somewhat subdued.
		Koreans seem to generally be concerned about what our response will be and what effect that response will gather from the rest of the world.
		The economy is still pretty weak here, and Koreans seem to be generally pretty worried that whatever we do is going to directly affect their economy for the negative.
		On an individual basis, every Korean I see, I don't even have to know them, but they'll still tell you, how are you?
		Are you from America?
		Is your family okay?
		Are your friends okay?
		How are everything?
		But I mean, there's genuine concern for us expat as an individual as well as their own interests.
		They don't call it the World Trade Center for nothing.
		It's the center of the world economy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And I guess I don't have to tell you, I'm sure you've been watching, our economy has been softening and softening anyway.
		So this, you know, we're all very nervous about when the markets do reopen Friday or Monday or whatever.
		That maybe having this extra time is good so everybody can digest the fact that it is not the end of the world.
		And hopefully the economy will not take a gigantic tumble, but it's a worry.
unidentified		It is militarily.
		The Koreans have really stepped up.
		The Korean military is on high alert.
		The U.S. military here is on full alert.
		Everyone's restricted to base.
		All passes have been canceled.
		But they're also, just the police presence on the streets here has just doubled, if not tripled, it seems, in my opinion.
		I mean, the interesting thing is we become so complacent about these things, Art.
		It's really sad.
		Every now, you lived in Okinawa for a while, so the U.S. Embassy will put out these warden reports if there's any type of a threat that might be coming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		And these, you know, we all got a warden report on the, it was either the 7th or the 8th saying there was a credible threat of a terrorist attack or terrorist threats against American expats in Korea and Japan.
		We get these every couple of months.
		And so everyone did what we usually do.
		We go, thanks, stop cluttering up my fax machine and throw it away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the reaction you're getting from most Koreans is one of sympathy and concern?
unidentified		Generally, yes.
		I haven't heard any of the Koreans make any of the comments like, you know, well, America finally gets what it deserves.
		That'll humble the Americans.
		I haven't heard one word from that, even from the usual sources of that type of criticism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I really appreciate that heads up.
		That's very important.
		And that's the kind of service you can provide for us out there in the rest of the world.
		And you sure have done that, sir, because a lot of people are suggesting that's exactly what's going on.
		A lot of, well, you're getting what you deserve.
		That isn't true.
unidentified		Well, when the first bombing happened in 93, I think there was a lot of that.
		Sort of, well, this will wake you up.
		This will make you think.
		But this goes so far beyond any bounds of any decency or humanity that you'll notice that not even the regular terrorist groups that always claim responsibility for these things, none of them seem to want to have anything to do with this either.
		It's just so far over the top.
		How can you not feel sympathy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, a lot of people would imagine that when one hotspot lights up, when something like this happens, then you look at other hotspots around the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we've got our eyes on you over there.
unidentified		I've got my eyes on me here over here, too.
unidentified		God bless you over there, Art, and best wishes for everyone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		That's from the Seoul of South Korea.
		All right.
		Once again, in order to do as that man did and get into the program live, and we are live right now, you can dial us toll-free internationally.
		We have that facility here.
		I think we have the first toll-free international line for talk radio in the world, actually, thanks to AT ⁇ T. They actually developed that for us.
		They went into their software and developed it.
		We wanted to pay the bill if you wanted to call from other parts of the world, and so it is.
		Go to my, well, you can't go to my website.
		Get hold of the AT ⁇ T operator is one way to try this.
		Get hold of the AT ⁇ T operator and have her dial for you.
		800-893-0903.
		It doesn't matter if you're in Europe, South America, Asia, anywhere in the world, 800-893-0903.
		You will not pay for the call.
		We will.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		How you doing?
		This is Gene from Colorado Springs.
		Hi, there.
		I haven't been able to listen to your program until you put me on here, but when I was driving home earlier, you had a caller that was talking about the retaliation.
		He hoped it would be surgical and we would keep away from civilian Fatalities and wherever this may occur.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And you concurred.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I do concur.
		There are always, there's always what they call collateral damage.
		People, innocents, are always killed.
		But it's the intent that counts.
		In other words, are we trying to just hit military installations and infrastructure?
		If so, I'm behind that.
		What about you?
unidentified		Normally, yeah.
		And yesterday when this occurred, I was at work.
		I'm an engineer by trade, so excuse me, I'm playing the cold ones.
		And, you know, the first thing that came out of my mouth and the co-workers as well was, my God, I hope when we, not if, but when we retaliate against this, that we do, you know, keep down on the collateral damage as much as possible.
		But over the last 24 hours, I've been thinking about this, and it's become more and more apparent to me that this is, yesterday the rules changed.
		And the policies and the rhetoric, I think, is probably going out the door on this.
		And what we're looking at here is an act of war.
		And if we declare war against it, then I think we may have to come to the point very quickly where we decide we have to make a moral decision as a country and as a people whether we're going to go at this in the way that it truly needs to be going at or make a token action.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If bin Laden and his people did this, then I think we need to kill them.
		And in order to really kill them, sir, I think it's going to take more than cruise missiles.
		It's going to take blood and guts Marines on the ground.
		They're going to have to go in, find him, and take him out.
		Then after that, I certainly can understand any nation supporting him, harboring him, take out their military ability, take out their infrastructure.
		But if you begin killing their civilians, if you just go in and ride one down and use a thermonuclear device or something of that sort and kill a bunch of civilians, then I don't see how we're any different.
unidentified		Oh, no, no.
		And I totally agree.
		I mean, nuclear weapons, anything of that kind of mass should be left totally out of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but you know, to do the kind of damage that they did in New York there, you would almost need a nuclear weapon.
unidentified		Well, yeah, and I'm not even saying that we need to retaliate in kind as far as damage.
		I'm saying that what needs to be done for this kind of war is that we're going to have to go in on the ground.
		Bombing is fine, and we'll probably do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		But it will have to be on the ground.
unidentified		These people are known to hide in villages behind innocent children.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No question about it.
		What you do is you do bomb, you do use the cruise missiles, and you always do that.
		You soften them up.
		But all that mostly causes them to do is to duck their heads.
		You want them ducking their heads while the people hit the ground.
unidentified		And unfortunately, they're going to be ducking their heads behind innocent people.
unidentified		And I have a 12-month-old son, and I look at him and I think, I'm sure there's an Afghani with someone who may have been involved with this living right next door who loves his son every bit as much as I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Man.
unidentified		And that kid is every bit as innocent as my kid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, listen, I've got to go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good luck with your cold.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		That sounds like you're really coming down with zombie.
		In the case of their hiding behind innocent individuals, then you have collateral damage.
		Because it is an act of war, and it does not stop us.
		The fact that they would hide behind innocence does not and should not stop us, in my opinion.
		We do what we have to do.
		We respond.
		We take a calculated action.
		But part of the mix for us, for our country, just absolutely has got to be the intent not to try and kill civilians.
		That's not us.
		I don't want it to be us.
		I don't think most of you really, when you think about it, want it to be us.
		Do you really?
		I see some primitive heads out there shaking yes.
		I understand the emotion, but I think once you've thought it over a little bit, you'll understand that there are ways to accomplish what we need to do without doing that.
		I hope so anyway.
		I'm Art Bell from the High Desert.
		This is Coast to Coast AM, raging through the night.
unidentified		There's something happening here.
		But what it is ain't exactly clear.
		There's a man with a gun over there.
		Telling me, I've got to beware.
		I think it's time we stop.
		Children watch that sound.
		Everybody look what's going down Music by Ben Thede This battle minds being wrong.
		And nobody's right if everybody's wrong.
		Young people speak in their minds Are getting so much resistance By the little things I say I can set a smile back on your face When it's alright and it's coming home We gotta get right back to where we started from Rechart Bell in the Kingdom of Nive.
		From west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with our bell on the Premier Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure is getting back to where we started from, QRD Open Line Talk Radio, while everybody else does something else.
		That's what we're doing.
		So there you are, and reaching out all the way across the nation and then the Atlantic.
		I think from Great Britain, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
		Where are you calling from?
unidentified		Hello, Art.
unidentified		Well, I'm just outside London in England.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, glad to have you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome.
unidentified		Welcome, thank you.
		Yeah, I was just basically a little bit concerned in some ways.
		I spent some time in Afghanistan.
		It was just doing a software installation.
		It was a fairly straightforward thing, but unfortunately I was there at the worst possible time.
		They'd actually just started as the rebel forces, or not rebel, they're actually presidential forces, had started to recapture Kabul.
		In fact, the day after I arrived, the airport itself was bombed.
		I saw one of two things there.
		I mean, they had martial law imposed, there was street searches, that sort of thing.
		You can imagine the sort of situation.
		I was only meant to be there a very short time and ended up being there for a whole month.
		But whilst there, the place where I was staying, it was actually a house which was owned by a UK company that was actually responsible for part of what was going on with the software installation and so on.
		We were subcontracted.
		There were some rocket launches which were very near where I was actually staying.
		There was something incoming mortar.
		And basically the point I'm trying to make is that where I was staying was very near both the UN building and the Red Crescent, which is like Red Cross in Europe and so on.
		It seemed to me that the outgoing rocket fire was deliberately positioned between the two buildings to try and encourage some sort of retargetary action to hopefully, as far as I saw it, you were hoping that it might miss the intended target and hit one of those two buildings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		Well, it's pretty horrible.
		Yes, it is horrible.
		And I think we all understand that terrorists, cowards that they are and the way they operate, if they're cornered, they're going to put themselves in front of civilians.
		There's no question about it.
		So any attack on our part is going to have to take that into account.
		And while I'm certainly not in favor of targeting civilians, I'm afraid that it's going to be, we're sorry, it's collateral damage, but it's an act of war, like the one perpetrated on us.
unidentified		Well, no, things like this have been done deliberately before.
unidentified		I mean, if you think back to Iraq.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think your nation, sir, nor my nation would deliberately target civilians.
unidentified		No, no, no, no, don't get me wrong.
		I'm not.
		I'm just sort of pre-warning.
		This is the sort of things that you can expect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think I understand that, but I appreciate your point of view.
		Where do you stand on all of this now?
		Other than what you just said, if you were the guy in charge of answering what has happened in New York, what would you do?
unidentified		Tough question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I make my living asking it.
unidentified		Yes, of course, of course.
		Well, you have to respond.
		You have to respond.
		It's just horrible to say it, but I would imagine you'd have to do some sort of ground action.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Long distance, it's great.
		It's wonderful.
		But even with the laser-guided missiles, you're not going to get the position that you need.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		No.
		We never seemed to follow through when it came to Sedan Hussein.
		It went so far, and then everyone retracted.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if there's a message to Washington and the other capitals like yours, I think that's it, that we've got to follow through this time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think you're exactly right, sir.
unidentified		Well, there's certainly, I mean, I don't know if you're aware, but in London, everything's now been heightened security.
		The telecoms is now affected to a small degree.
		I mean, I'm in a small part of that industry, and I'm hearing that it isn't just Hudson Street, it's Canary Wharf, all of that area, is affected.
		I mean, they're expecting possible similar action in this part of the world as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Certainly wouldn't surprise me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really hope you will call us again.
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Okay, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care from Britain.
		Again, that international line is 800-893-0903, wherever you are.
		get to us, use the I wanted to tell all of you, there is an incredible photograph.
		We've got the website back up and cooking along now.
		So if you're still awake with us at this hour, feel free to jump in and you'll get right in right now.
		That's artbell.com.
		Go to What's New and then photos from 911 terrorist attack, which is right up there under What's New.
		Go to the second photo down and see if it just doesn't hit you right smack between the eyes.
		And as the person who sent in the photograph, which is an unretouched photograph, you'll be chilled to know, Matt Massey, as he says, what do you think?
		You tell me, what do you think?
		This was at the moment of impact, and you can check it out as an unretouched photo.
		Go to the CNN website yourself and take a look-see.
		It just hits you right between the eyes.
		This is a face of evil directly below the fireball.
		I don't know what else to say about it.
		Check it out yourself, artbell.com right now.
		Okay, a couple of things to take care of and we'll be right back.
		You know, to me, if anything is liable to bring a tear to my eye, and somehow through all of this, I haven't cried yet.
		It's like with the news, you watch it, but you don't want to watch it.
		But you have to watch it.
		And that's the way it's been with me, and I've been glued, you know, to CNN.
		I don't mind giving them a plug.
		And Fox, I've watched a lot of that.
		Some Canadian broadcasting, they've been very good.
		The BBC has been good.
		I think I've been primarily on CNN and Fox.
		Fox may have discontinued continuous coverage.
		I'm not sure.
		It seemed like they were about to earlier today.
		But this Flight 93 thing, it probably got me closer so far than anything else to imagine a group of men on that flight, men with families both on the ground and with them in the air, one man, voting to rush these terrorists, knowing that it would probably be the end of their lives and then doing so.
		I think that act is a Medal of Honor kind of act.
		I don't see how you could not Wish to give a medal of honor to the people who did that.
		They stopped that airplane from getting to the White House or to the Capitol building and at the direct and immediate expense of their own lives and that of their family.
		God, what a decision to have made.
		Can you imagine that?
		That's been something that's been with me all day long since I heard about it.
		Just absolutely astounding.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I hear you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
		I am.
		I am.
		I'm really stunned that these guys got through.
		I am really stunned that they used our own airplane.
		And that really disappoints me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, apparently they used our own flight schools to even train in.
unidentified		I know.
		And how sick is that?
		I want our president to make the right move.
		And if he has the right countries behind him, he will be able to go in there and annihilate them.
		I don't care what country he has.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think the right move is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean by annihilate?
unidentified		I want him to go in there on the ground, in the air.
		I want him to go in there so I don't have to look over my shoulder every time I take a walk or look up in the sky and make sure that the airplane ain't coming down on me or my kids.
		What pain those people are going through in New York.
		How dare they do that to us?
		It is time that we got them where we want them.
		And if the nations are going to back us, then we'll be able to go in there and annihilate them.
		And of course, we're going to lose a few guys.
		But my God, we've already lost how many people have we lost?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Usually when this happens, this sort of thing, and we've had a lot of lesser occurrences, the coal, and, you know, I could go on and on, Marines who have been killed.
		And we usually don't do very much, or we do something that's seen to be very ineffective.
		So I agree with you.
		Let's go in and stop it.
		This is war.
		I don't want to see us doing anything that's going to kill a lot of innocent civilians, but some will no doubt die.
unidentified		On both sides?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On both sides, yes, ma'am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's war, and Better Dam will go in and finish the job.
unidentified		Get it done and take out this man because all he's going to do is turn around and do it again.
		And we're the ones that are paying for it because, like you said, we trained them.
		They used our planes that we built.
		And that really makes me mad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm with you all the way.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		I think that's a correct sentiment now.
		I know there's probably no real correct sentiment.
		Who am I to be judging?
		But I agree with that lady.
		I guess what that really means is I agree with that lady.
		Let's go get them.
		And I think that's probably exactly what they're planning to do in Washington right now.
		At least I certainly hope so.
		I know one thing for sure.
		What I talked about last night in terms of being in chalk and that being converted to anger, that process is underway right now.
		You're beginning to hear it reflected in some of the calls that we've been taking this morning.
		That process is well underway.
		And the president and the people around the president understand that.
		There's a sort of a period of time where they're going to have to take action, after which it'll be more difficult to take action.
		A window of opportunity, if you will.
		And the president is going to have to act within that window of opportunity because you can already feel the shift underway as you listen to people speak this morning.
		The shift is clearly well underway.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		This is Vince from Denver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, on a cell phone, of course.
unidentified		Your favorite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Well, I'll make it quick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		I would like to emphasize that this is not a crime, but an act of war.
		And so because of that, I would be against going and getting Indians and bringing them back to put them on trial.
		That's not what you do in war.
		You go out and you annihilate them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Eliminate them from the face of the planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you don't hear a lot of talk in Washington right now about bringing these people to justice, which means we're going to go get them and put them on trial in the court at The Hague or something or another, or even back in the States.
		Forget that.
		Let's go kill them.
unidentified		And I think that the ones that they find in the United States who are part of this, they should turn over to the military and do what we do with enemy soldiers.
		Where we are at war, we have war declared on us, just like when Japan dropped the bombs on Pearl Harbor.
		It is no different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's why I believe that we should, prior to the attack, the President should go to Congress and ask for a declaration of war.
unidentified		Absolutely.
		100% agree with you.
		We need that declaration from the United States Congress official vote because that's what we're at.
		Otherwise, it's just a military strike for tapping and that won't work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Agreed, sir.
		Thank you very much.
		Absolutely agreed.
		On my international line, you are on the air.
		Where are you calling from, please?
		Turn your radio or your computer off and tell me where you're calling from, please.
		Hello?
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Oh, my God.
unidentified		I'm on the line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art, actually, you're on the air, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in New York, New York.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're in New York, New York?
unidentified		Yes, I am.
unidentified		Art, I want to tell you, first off, it is a privilege to finally speak with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thank you.
unidentified		I got to tell you, I'm looking at your pictures on the website and the WTC2 series that is on your webpage.
		If you look at the second series of photographs that were sent in, the second picture where the plane is going into the World Trade Center, there looks to me, and I'm looking at it right now, looks to me like another face of another devil or evil spirit or whatever you want to call it.
		I'm just going to tell you that.
		First off, second off, I cannot believe that this has finally happened.
		The United States, I think this is going to be the beginning of the war of good versus evil in the world.
		Finally, the people of good are going to align against the evil forces, and finally, we may have a resolution to good and evil on this planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Paul, I don't know if it's going to be that wide-sweeping, but I think this particular evil is about to be snuffed out.
unidentified		Well, you mentioned earlier, as I've listened to the phone calls, that you, on the one hand, you feel that the United States needs to take a broad sweep at the evil forces.
		On the other hand, you're saying, well, collateral damage, yes, innocent people are going to be killed.
		But at the same time, you know, what are we going to do?
		I mean, innocent people are going to be killed regardless of what we do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but it should not be our intent in the response that we have to kill innocent civilians.
		That's all I've been saying.
		It should not be central to our intent.
		Central to their intent in what they did to us was to kill as many innocent civilians as possible.
		We don't need to do that.
unidentified		Right, I agree.
		That should not be the intent.
		Obviously, any God-fearing people on this planet is going to assume that that is not the intent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		However, this is war.
unidentified		This is war.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And how are we going to go after bin Laden without causing an army of his forces to continue to braz this country, and not only this country, but the rest of God-fearing people on this planet, to line up and do exactly what these people have done?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your, since you're in the city, what is your sense of how the city's doing now?
unidentified		Art, it is, I've been down to as close as I can get.
		Art, I got to tell you, you mentioned that you have not shed a tear.
		It's hard not to.
		I haven't shed a tear, but it's emotional.
		People are walking around.
		They're shell-shocked.
		I can't believe walking down.
		For 20 years I've been in the city.
		I've never been able to reach you on the show.
		As interesting as your shows are on UFOs and out-of-body's and shadow people and vampires and Bigfoot, you know, the history of your show.
		To finally get through and finally, Art, I got to tell you, the city is in, we're shocked.
		Just go down there and see the buildings.
		They're not there.
		They're not there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		Listen, I appreciate your call.
		I saw exactly what you're describing.
		One of the reporters from Fox got escorted in just very nearly ground zero.
		And they took video of blocks in either direction.
		And it was unblanking believable.
		It was just not...
		The damage was so comprehensive, so awful.
		It was absolutely surreal.
		God, it was incredible.
		That almost brought me there.
		This whole thing over the voting in the aircraft to do what those very, very, very brave, patriotic Americans did in that aircraft.
		That got me pretty close.
		I tend to internalize things, and I don't cry very frequently about anything.
		On my international line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Well, we lost you.
		That's too bad.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Ari.
		Hello.
		Okay, this is Sarah from Houston.
		Hi, Sarah.
		I'm actually part Arab American.
		I'm part Syrian.
		Okay.
		And I was just looking at some pictures on my wall, and actually, I'm half Syrian, half Mexican.
		And the funny part is, is that one of the first callers from, I think it was Yuba City said for them to look like Mexicans.
		I'm looking at pictures of my cousins and stuff like that.
		And one of my Mexican cousins, she looks so much more Arab than I do.
		And she's pure Mexican.
		And I'm just like, you know, it's like, you know, you can't just do that.
		Most people can't even tell the difference between an Indian and a Pakistani.
		And then you're going to just throw them all in the same category.
		And for every, like, let's say 10 to 50 Muslims out there, only one of them are going to be the terrorists.
		You know, I just can't say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know that.
		You know it.
		Actually, the numbers are probably much bigger than that.
		But there's a base thing in everybody's brains, a sort of a reactive lynch mob kind of mentality that's not going to delineate.
		Listen, I've got a break.
		You want to hold on for a sec?
unidentified		Yes, please.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, stay right where you are, please.
		I understand your dilemma.
		Believe me, I understand your dilemma.
		From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast A.M. You don't come in there.
unidentified		You know, you don't count me there.
		You don't come here.
		You know, you don't count me there.
		But to say it's you, you want to sing the blues and you know...
		Music
		Listen to the wind blow, watch the sun cry Hey!
		I'm in the shadows, damn your love, damn your lies.
		And if you don't love me now, you'll never love me again.
		And you'll hear me say, we'll never break together, baby, damn your way.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nigh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is hard to watch the news, isn't it?
		Hard not to watch the news.
		I've been glued to it like everybody else.
		We'll get back to the young lady, I think, down in Texas in just a moment.
		Stay right there.
		All right, back to the very patient young lady in Texas.
		You're back on the air again, huh?
		Thank you for holding.
unidentified		Actually, what I was thinking about is like, I have class in about five hours and going out to school.
		And I'm actually supposed to go pick up one of my friends before going to school because she's Saudi and she does wear the head covering.
		And she called me earlier, and she had already been threatened at school.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, brother.
unidentified		And I actually offered, even though, see, what I was talking about earlier, about like how my cousins that are Syrian, I have family that's in Syria and Lebanon, and they look nothing like a typical Arab.
		They're really light-skinned.
		Most people think I'm Eastern European, okay?
		But most of my Mexican family look very Arab.
		They have the straight hair and the eyes and everything else.
		They look very Arab.
		That's why I'm saying you can't just look at them and try to attack people because even if it's a natural urge, because I know that I thought the same way.
		I was like, can we just bomb them, please?
		But then I remember seeing that thing on CNN a couple weeks ago back about Afghanistan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One day, humanity may outgrow this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess that day is not today, so you're going to have to be careful.
unidentified		Well, actually, I offered to wear the head covering, too.
		And just so that way she wouldn't be alone.
		That was the way she would feel alone.
		I offered to do it.
		And I agree with you about Flight 93.
		And the other people who just definitely deserve everybody's prayers and thanks and everything are the firefighters and the rescue workers and everything else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		Because no matter if they're bloody, if they're hurt, whatever, they will go back in there.
unidentified		And that's their job.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are going to be a lot of people that deserve the Medal of Honor, in my opinion.
		And Flight 93, definitely, obviously, the people on the ground.
		Lots of heroics to go around in all of this.
		Thank you for the call.
		Take care.
		All right.
		Let's go quickly to our international line.
		You are on the air.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		I'm calling from Australia, As.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just fine, sir.
unidentified		I would like to give my condolences to the American people.
unidentified		This is a horrible thing that's happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's actually unimaginable, except that you're absolutely inundated with it.
		As I said, it's hard to watch the news, but it's equally hard not to watch it.
		It's something you're glued to.
unidentified		It's absolutely unbelievable.
unidentified		I can assure you that the whole country is stunned because we've also got 85 Australians, so fortunately, that are missing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		85 Australians were in the Twin Towers?
unidentified		Yes, some of the Twin Towers, but we know that a few of them were on those planes that actually crashed into the Pentagon and also the Twin Towers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There were tourists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is the news covering it wall-to-wall in Australia?
unidentified		Yes.
		We've got CNN and all the other channels, satellite, the whole works, and it's absolutely wall-to-wall.
		I mean, look, I took a day off and I was watching it all night, to be honest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's right.
		Everything's upside down.
		No pun intended.
unidentified		That's exactly right, you know.
		But it's unbelievable.
		I was watching that plane onto the side of that building and I thought, this has to be some sort of special effect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Looks like a movie, right?
unidentified		Yeah, you know, and also, too, I went down to the American consulate and you should see it, Art.
unidentified		It's a sea of flowers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it really?
unidentified		Down there.
		It's a sea of flowers.
		Your American ambassador, he was outside today.
		There were hundreds of people there, you know, basically trying to express their grief.
		And also at the same time, he was shaking hands with everybody.
		The Australian Post Office all over the country have got books now where people can go in there and sign it and give messages that will be sent to the consulate and that will be forwarded on to the United States.
		Toys outside, the blood banks, there's people right around the corner offering to give blood to our American countries because we're pretty close to you guys.
		And it's like our Prime Minister said, an attack on the United States is an attack on Australia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, believe me, for America, I thank all of you for your support.
		And I think Americans are feeling the support and feeling pretty good about it.
		It's nice for Australia.
unidentified		Well, our Prime Minister came onto news and he said that basically if America decides to take action and they need troops, then our troops will be committed along with yours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think to do the job, we are going to need troops, period.
		I think that they can't just go push the button on a bunch of cruise missiles this time.
		It's going to have to be that probably followed by people on the ground to get the job done.
unidentified		Well, it's like the Prime Minister said.
unidentified		Our American cousins needn't feel alarmed because the rest of the Western world are with them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We certainly appreciate your support, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		No problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		That's all the way from Australia.
		And here's kind of a special call.
		This is Mark.
		Mark is a pilot.
		Mark, what kind of jets do you drive?
unidentified		I'm a co-pilot for Major Airline on a Boeing 737.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		Glad to have you.
		Have several questions for you, but if you have something, you go first.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess I'll first tell you my story is I began a trip on Monday, and we were actually flying into New York the night before, Monday night, into LaGuardia.
		And we were vectored directly over downtown, New York City, right over the World Trade Center.
		And the thought actually crossed my mind that, wow, you know, it'd be really easy for someone to crash into the city from up here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you really think about that?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It really crossed my mind.
		So we landed and we stayed downtown and we left very early the next morning.
		And I'm thanking God every single minute that my plane wasn't one of them that was hijacked.
		It's a little selfish, but that's how I feel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you understand how this was done by the hijackers?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, getting passengers and stewardesses in back and beginning to slit throats, I suppose, and getting somebody like you or the pilot to come out and then rushing the cabin?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, the first thing we're trying to do in a hijacking situation, if we know about it, is to never leave the cockpit.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Someone has to fly the airplane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unless you just think it's a disturbance going on that would require one of you at least to go back.
unidentified		Well, that's, you know, with an unruly customer, that's like the last resort.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		If we have to leave the cockpit, then there's big problems.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		The only way that this could happen is the pilots had to be, they had to have been killed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If I wanted to come and kick in your door, could I do it?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		The door is made of aluminum.
		It's very, very flimsy, and it's actually made that way just because of weight problems.
		The kind of doors that people were describing on your show earlier that they think ought to be on airplanes really would add a great deal of weight to the airplane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they would add weight, but it may be a trade-off that we'll have to make.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what I'm thinking also.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And weight and fuel is money to an airline, so it's going to cost.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was something discussed on almost all the channels earlier that I would like to ask you about, and that is that between the first airplane impacting one of the towers and the second airplane, there was about 18 minutes in which air traffic controllers on the ground simply sat back in horror, knowing exactly what was happening and apparently couldn't do anything.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		There's nothing you can do short of shooting it down.
unidentified		A person can drive an airplane anywhere if they're in control of it.
		Unless there's surfaced air missiles on top of the buildings, I mean, there's just really no way to stop an airplane if somebody's driving it.
		If somebody wants to kill themselves, someone wants to hijack an airplane, I don't care what kind of security you have, they can do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you up to date on the story of Flight 93?
unidentified		Yes, sir, I am, and I applaud you very, very much.
unidentified		I agree also.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Civilians can't win the Medal of Honor, but there is a civilian version.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there is, and it should be awarded.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's just hard to imagine a group of passengers voting, sitting back there, voting, knowing they're going to end their own lives to stop something from hitting the White House.
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anything else you'd like to say?
unidentified		No, sir.
		Surreal, I think, is the proverbial word, and I'm shocked and I'm sad.
		And I was also an FA team pilot in the Navy for 10 years, and I flew in Desert Storm.
		And during that war, I really was detached from it.
		I was just kind of there to do a job.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It felt like we were just protecting oil.
unidentified		This time, I feel true anger.
unidentified		They really hurt us this time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they did.
		What do you hear about the possibility of getting back in the air again?
		What's the latest?
unidentified		I understand tomorrow, or I guess it's this morning, tonight, flights are going to start up again.
unidentified		Our airline is not flying tomorrow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They said a limited basis.
		And what I heard was that those that were en route to some destination will be allowed to proceed and finish the flight.
		Are they going to go beyond that and begin to allow some routes to just plane open?
unidentified		I'm assuming tomorrow is just going to be a repositioning of airplanes.
		Airplanes have to be in position to operate a flight schedule.
		So that's probably what's going to happen tomorrow, and I'm guessing maybe by the weekend a full flight schedule.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I sure appreciate your call.
		Thank you.
unidentified		You're sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I applaud you.
		Take care.
		You know, I think they're going to have to put better doors there, obviously.
		Because as I tried to say earlier, you know, I know they're going to stop.
		There are no more knives on aircraft and so forth.
		But when you consider the prisoners make shanks and stab people, there's always a way.
		I mean, if you're willing to sacrifice your life for a cause, no matter how perverted from our point of view that might be, your odds of success are probably about three out of four.
		And that's too good.
		So there has to be a way to stop it.
		And maybe the only way is an impenetrable door.
		I don't know.
		A wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Well, I don't know if this is going to be relevant to what has been happening, all the terrorism that we've been having here in the States, but I'm here in Dallas, and my name is Vicki.
unidentified		And earlier I was watching the news on Fox, and the local news came on and said that a plane had crashed in the Yucanton Peninsula.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is a two-engine plane, I think, that went down.
unidentified		Well, most of those that were on there were Americans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		I don't know either whether it's relevant.
		That's why I haven't mentioned it.
		Had it been one of the larger airplanes, like the ones that were used in the attack in New York, I would have mentioned it.
		But I'm loath to connect it to what's happened because of the size of the aircraft.
		I would think if it was related in some way, it would have been a bigger aircraft, but you never know.
unidentified		You never know.
		And it's so scary now.
		I mean, all of Texas is just in shock.
		It's really eerie around here.
		You don't see people out anymore.
		Downtown Dallas has just been, you know, it's like it's been evacuated.
		And then we had a, we thought we had a bomb scare today.
		And of course, it turned out to be nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is going to be a very great deal of that in the coming days.
		You know, a lot of copycat stuff around.
		And they know that any threat now is going to be taken very seriously.
		So there'll be a lot of nutcases out there trying to cause trouble.
unidentified		I know.
unidentified		It's just.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The trouble is you've got to take them seriously.
unidentified		Yes.
		Yes.
		And I just, you know, I want us to do something desperately, but like you said, I don't want a lot of innocent casualties.
		I'm just hoping that...
		And I'll tell you one thing that makes me feel really good is like the Australian caller that called earlier and offered their supports and their troops and everybody is sticking behind us.
		And all the patriotism that, you know, is going on and everything like that, and people are coming together.
		You're right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It really does seem like the world is pretty much behind us right now, doesn't it?
unidentified		Yes, it does.
		And it makes me feel good, and I know it makes a lot of other people feel good.
		And because we need all the support right now we can get.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we do.
		For what is about to happen, we need a lot of support.
		You're right.
unidentified		And not just in military.
unidentified		I'm talking about moral support also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it seems to be there as I take calls from around the world.
		Thank you very much.
		It sure does seem to be there.
unidentified		more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I get the definite sense that the world is looking at what has happened in New York in a very very different light than anything that has gone on before and whatever you think of U.S. actions in the past and we have not always been the perfect princes and princesses have we of course not but this one is so far over the top that I think it eclipses any feelings of that sort that people have had like the man from Korea said what's to the Rockies you're on the air
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
		Going once.
		Going twice.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
		Good thing you said hello.
		I was about to leave the line.
unidentified		Oh, I wasn't sure I was off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Okay, it's actually the television.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whatever.
unidentified		Okay.
		Hold on.
		Okay.
		I'm in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
		Yes, ma'am.
		And my name is Rita.
		And like most Americans and I guess a lot of the world, I'm still in shock.
		And I keep thinking I'm going to wake up out of this nightmare and it's not going to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
unidentified		I have a friend that lives in Florida.
		Her husband is an air traffic controller.
		And according to his co-workers and the people he has talked to, the word is that they will only be at about 20% as far as flights go for the next several days.
		And he says that it will be probably a couple weeks before they're in full gear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then another thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if Americans, particularly in cities, are ever going to look up in the sky and see a big airliner and not wonder.
unidentified		I know I will.
		Yeah.
		On another note, my family, we had won a trip to Disneyland through the Coca-Cola company, Nestle's Corporation, and Albertson's grocery store.
		Oh.
		And we were supposed to go in July and I postponed it because of the heat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can't go now, that's for sure.
unidentified		Well, we were scheduled to go on Friday and I spoke with a woman that put this package together today.
unidentified		And she said that today was the last day we could decide whether or not to change the...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, brother.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean to say they will not, under the circumstances, come on.
unidentified		Well, that's what I was surprised about.
		She says I had to decide a day, so, you know, either I go or not.
		And so I told her we would go ahead and go and I'm really starting to feel uncomfortable again about doing this.
		My daughters are 12 and 14 and they're quite uncomfortable about the thought of getting on a plane at this time, which, you know, I am myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, though, their whole plan, apparently, since they haven't said anything else about why they did all this to us, what they expected to achieve, is to scare us.
		And I've flown all my life and I'm still here.
		And I have a feeling if you fly, you're going to get a little inconvenience because it's going to be a whole lot of security.
		But maybe you ought to just go ahead and fly.
		You know?
unidentified		Well, I've kind of gone back and forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		Don't let them beat you.
		The whole point is if they scare us out of the air, then they succeed.
		If they take away our rights and freedoms, they succeed.
		Or if they cause us to take away our own, really.
unidentified		That is so true.
		I agree.
		I did go to a church service at the church that I've attended for 15 years, Calvary Chapel here in Albuquerque.
		And the church was just jam-packed.
		And Pastor Skip said he hadn't seen the church that had since 91.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, people need and want something to turn to in a moment where it seems there are no other answers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so the church is an obvious place.
unidentified		And with as many people that were there when the service let out, normally you can hear elevated voices and people chit-chatting and having a good time.
unidentified		And there was very little chatter with all the people that were there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Instead, there's quiet, right?
unidentified		Yes.
		It was very...
		When I first entered the church, there was the praise and worship songs going on.
		And I felt like I was at a memorial service.
		And growing up Catholic, I'd been to many rosaries and memorial services.
		And I really just...
		The feeling...
		My whole body felt like I was...
		You know, when I looked up toward the pastor, I almost felt like I was going to see a coffin or something.
		Because I had that same feeling that I've had over the years since I was a child when I've gone to, you know, a memorial service or a rosary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a profound change.
		We're never going to be quite the same.
		No.
		going to I hope still be the home of the you know home of the brave and the free and all the rest of it but something has profoundly changed that's just the way it is listen I got to run thank you very much All right, thank you very much and have a good morning.
		I'm Mark Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM this week in continuous coverage of you.
		Good night.

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