Candice DeLong, a 20-year FBI special agent, reveals how she used undercover tactics—like posing as a "Candy Store" call-girl ringleader—to catch criminals, exposing bureau politics that stifle investigations. She debunks myths about serial killers, noting 95% of child murders under age 10 are committed by caretakers, and critiques Ted Bundy’s execution, calling his conjugal visit a miscarriage of justice. DeLong also highlights systemic failures in mental health care, citing cases like the Texas woman who killed her family while on antipsychotics or the Sacramento "vampire murder," where delusional killers evade accountability. Her blunt stance on the drug war—opposing legalization but favoring military crackdowns—underscores a hardline approach to crime, suggesting deep-seated frustrations with bureaucratic inefficiency and media interference in high-stakes operations like Waco and Ruby Ridge. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest.
I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon.
It is only going to run this week.
That's it.
This week.
It will begin, has begun, and will end this week.
As you know, I have written a number of books.
I'm not big on autograph.
I'll tell you something about autographs.
This is kind of interesting, and it's a trend that I've noticed in the last, oh, I don't know, couple of years.
There are, you cannot imagine, you can't imagine how many professional autograph seekers are out there.
Now, these are people who really don't listen to your program at all or don't really know you at all.
Their entire life is seeking autographs from celebrities.
And I presume they collect them in hopes that when you kick the bucket, you know, your autograph becomes worth money.
that's all i can presume you get these sort of The president is very concerned with regard to the information in your letter, and the president will contact the appropriate authorities and follow up on it.
You know, you get a sort of a rubber stamp letter.
Hi, I've really always enjoyed your work, and I think you're fabulous.
And would you please send me an autograph, a signed picture, autograph, whatever.
And I'm getting zillions of these, and I roundly ignore them.
I totally ignore them.
I never do them.
There's something to me kind of macabre about that.
People who would simply go to everybody who's in the public spotlight one way or the other, probably good, bad, or indifferent.
And it's just, you know, it's just for the value of the signature after you're gone.
Kind of strange.
Anyway, as you know, I've written a number of books that really, really reflect what I think in more ways than one.
The Art of Talk is My Baby.
The Art of Talk is an autobiography.
It's all about my life.
And in it, I told a whole bunch of stuff that I shouldn't have told.
And to this day, get grief for.
You know, I just opened up and told it the way it is.
So, The Art of Talk, I think you'll like that one.
The quickening, which is every bit, you know, after I am gone and the autograph people go to collect my money or their money, if there is any to be made, $9.95, whatever, this book will still be operative because the quickening will still be going on.
Maybe.
Obviously, events are racing toward some sort of culmination.
The quickening was a definitive work on that, I think.
At least mine, that's for sure.
And the source, which I co-authored with Brad Steiger, about all things paranormal, having one source.
Again, every bit as good today as it was the day it was written.
All three of these books, autographed, personally autographed by me, are available till the end of the week, and that's it.
This is like a one-time year and a half special.
I don't think we've done this in a year and a half.
So all three books autographed for $59.95 plus $7.95 shipping and handling.
Or, by the way, you can get any one of the single books if you wish, but this is a pretty good bargain.
$59.95, all three autographed plus $7.95 shipping and handling.
You can call right now, tonight, this minute, or during the day.
If you're unable to get through tonight, you can call during the day.
There's so much that I should be covering that I've been saving while all of this controversy has been going on.
I mean, there really is a lot going on there.
And I think this could probably be classified as part of the quickening, in my opinion.
And then we'll open the lines here.
Let me read you about three separate, or in part, three separate emails that I've received that I think are relevant.
Hey, Art, have you noticed the stories about confused animals?
Fox ran a piece on a moose in a pool and also about a cub bear in a kiddie pool.
One could not miss the strange behavior of the sharks off Florida.
Makes you wonder something big might be brewing.
Makes me glad I live in Michigan and not California if you get my drift.
You should call your guest who predicts earthquakes, see what he thinks.
Or this, hey art, sharks are nibbling on swimmers in the Atlantic waters.
During a recent trip to Sweden, I learned that the scourges of my ancestors have returned to plague-rule Swedes, the bear, the cougar, the moose, the wolf.
And here in Texas, home of gigantic cockroaches referred to euphemistically as water bugs, the bugs are disappearing.
The habitat of lizards has spread north.
We now have a plague of these little guys.
The newts, no bigger than an inch and a half, are eating cockroaches larger than they are.
The lizards are like chameleons.
They take on the coloration of whatever they're crawling on.
My local ones don't seem to be able to match my yellow porch very well, but do a masterly job of imitating brickwork.
In Florida, from the Orlando Sentinel, the headline is Dying Birds Rain on Eola.
Birds fell dead from the trees and sky around downtown Orlando's Lake Eola Park on Friday, Stunning residents out for an evening stroll and leaving officials struggling to find an explanation.
Nearly 100 birds began simply dropping from trees or even falling in mid-flight about 6 p.m. in the popular park on the east side of downtown.
Most were grackles and pigeons, but at least one duck was found dead.
Egrets and a lake in all the famous black swans did not appear to be affected.
But folks, birds just flat fell out of the sky, fell out of their perches on trees like that.
Now, what do you suppose all of this means?
There can be no question.
The number of shark attacks that have been going on, legs lost, bites, and all the rest of it, reported nearly on a daily basis now, well, I'll tell you, it is part of the quickening.
Be sure of it.
Do the crop circles fit into all of this?
Probably.
Does it all mean something and mean something is coming pretty soon now?
Probably.
That'd be my take anyway.
I wonder what yours is.
And so that's what I, as I said, we're going to open lines and just see what's on your mind out there.
Okay, a way for you to gauge that yourself is to go to the photograph on my website of the two glyphs, the face and the answer, and look at them in relationship to the great big satellite dish there.
Well, he said that what he got out of it was, you know, he ended up saying to my sister that, you know, he really thought Bigfoot was neat and everything.
little Jake and Katie in case you should be awake at this hour here's my version of Bigfoot Now, if they were to include that reputed to be real Bigfoot sound in the curriculum, how do you think Jake and Katie would handle it?
Well, according to the reversal, speech reversals, the guys from NASA were coming up with Americans of Venus on Mars, Americans and buildings on Venus or whatever.
Probably happened before the big meteor hit the Yucatan, for example, but we don't remember.
unidentified
But, you know, one of the instances, I mean, you know, there was a film a few years ago called The Ghost in the Darkness that came out, which was just the film, of course, but based on the true incident of these lions in a place called Sabo in Africa that basically just started randomly killing 100 people, two of them, for no particular reason at all.
And the fact of the matter is, is lions don't normally do such a thing.
And they believe by the end of it killed about 100 people.
At the top of the hour, we're going to be talking with an FBI agent, a woman.
I call her Clarice.
She's actually Kentis DeLong, but, you know, when you think of a woman FBI agent, you know, that's really stereotyping, too.
I mean, you have to think of Clarice, right?
And Hannibal.
You just have to.
So we'll ask her about that.
She worked on cases like that, too.
So it's going to be kind of interesting.
Have you ever seen a time like this when things are so strange?
They just seem to get stranger and faster and stranger and faster.
And West Nile virus now is spreading as well.
We're talking about the animals, but West Nile virus is headed my way.
It moves south and it's moving west.
And I would presume that before too long, despite the authorities' best efforts to eradicate the mosquito, something I don't think they're going to do, it's moving.
First off, I just wanted to say quickly that in these times where we have practically no coverage of the paranormal at all anywhere, and specifically about the subjects that have been happening over the past week, which I won't get into, which everyone knows, I appreciate your show.
There was a, I believe I even referred to an otter, like several otters killing someone about several weeks ago, and I thought that was absurd when it gets to the point where otters are killing people.
For anybody out there willing to listen, the behavior of animals is odd right now.
Can you deny that?
I don't think so.
Speaking of animals, I have got a really, really, really, really, really cute picture on my webcam right now that I got tonight.
First time ever, I got both of my pinky cats.
Meaning, I've got a picture of myself holding Comet.
He's the one on the left with his ears back.
And Yeti, our darling new one, on the right.
And they're together.
And taking a picture like that with those two is a flesh-threatening experience.
But I did get them to calm down and pay attention.
Now, Comet, you know, if you get a camera, any kind of thing that looks like a camera within 20 feet of Comet, he'll be gone like, you know, the speeding bullet after Superman.
I mean, he's just gone.
He knows a camera.
But he doesn't know my webcams because they're always there, and he hasn't figured out their cameras yet.
So it's the only way I've ever in recent years been able to get a picture of Comet.
He's the one on the left, totally feral.
The one on the right is our new little monster named Yeti.
He's something else.
But I got them both in one photograph.
It's on my webcam right now.
If you go to my website at artbell.com, click on program.
What is it?
It says there.
Program.
And then Art Bell Studio Cam.
You'll see the picture I took at 9.49 Pacific Time, just a few minutes ago, actually.
It's my view, after years of interviewing some of the best of them, that some of them absolutely are real and have a talent that, whether you like it or not, is real and they can really do what they say they do.
And then there are some charlatans.
So on the one hand, I absolutely believe the phenomena is a real phenomenon.
No question about it.
On the other hand, I know there are charlatans out there, too.
unidentified
Well, how does one then decide who's a charlatan and who's for real?
I really don't want to say anything bad about anybody, but when I see something on TV and it says, want to know about your boyfriend?
Want to know if your girlfriend's going out on you?
Call 1-900, you know, whatever.
I tend to sort of blow that off in my mind, probably like a lot of people, right?
But on the other hand, when I run into somebody like Daniel Brinkley, who scared the you-know-what out of me several times with his ability, I know I've met the real McCoy.
unidentified
This fellow, we've got him on TV down here now, John Edwards.
John started off on the science fiction channel, and now he's in syndication and apparently has reached all the way to Australia.
John Edwards says he talks to the other side.
You know, I don't know.
I think there is another side.
I think I'm pretty well convinced of that.
I doubt that our energy ceases, so I really tend to believe, you know, there is a place where we go or a time, or maybe it's no time and no place, but a place where our consciousness resides after physical death.
I'm more cautious about those who claim to speak to that side.
I got onto the website before the show began, and I was waiting with eagerness to hear about some new information with the crop glyphs and all that, because my son and I have been watching it pretty closely.
In fact, he was doing some diddling with the artwork and produced some interesting things.
We were looking at the images that were lined up for the night's program, and it looked like there was quite a bit of factual material to absorb, and we were rubbing our hands and waiting for the show to start.
And then he started getting into it with Seth, and I have to say, I don't want to complain because this is the best damn show ever.
Well, I had been a psychiatric nurse for almost a decade, and I had spent most of my nursing career in maximum security, and I had eventually become head nurse of a major metropolitan psychiatric hospital at one.
And, you know, psych nursing is pretty draining, very stressful job.
And in 1978, I met an FBI agent, and we became friends.
And he introduced me to his partner one day, and his partner was a little teeny gal, about five feet tall, 100 pounds, hair down to her waist, really cool suede boots.
So I kind of grew up with he saw her all about his symptoms so that when he saw her on such and such a date, she would be ready to order all the tests that he would need, and she would be able to do everything in one day, and he would not have to stay overnight.
And of course, he was always counting his pennies.
And I mean, literally, this man lived on about $300 a year.
And so, in this letter, he said, he wrote the letter in 1992, and he said, I've been under stress for about 14 years.
Well, if you subtract 14 years from 1992, that's 1978 when he placed the first bomb in Chicago.
And he said in that letter, I've been under extreme stress since 19 years.
Five years prior to 1992 was when he was seen placing a bomb down behind a computer store in Utah and was seen by someone and the composite sketch of the Unibomber became famous to America.
What I left out here was after three weeks of my partners and I running around much, and I would use the word guarded, stiff, much like Congressman Condit was last Thursday night with Connie Chung.
You know, yeah, I mean, you know, certainly you knew you were sitting across the table from a smart person, but oh, how I wanted to reach over and go, not feeling so smart now, are you?
When you and your partner, whether, not in the Kaczynski case, but in a case where you would be interrogating someone, do you play, have you played good cop, bad cop?
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 28th, 2001.
What it is ain't exactly clear.
There's a man with a gun over there.
Telling me I've got to beware.
I think it's time we stop.
Children, watch that sound.
Everybody look what's going down.
There's a smile for his nostalgia turn.
Thank you.
Never coming near what you wanted to play.
Or did you realize he never really wanted to see everything in his life and things as she rises to her follows you?
Anybody else would surely know Who's watching her go Who's got a fool to believe Do you see The white man's eyes are falling She's freezing away What you see To
be There always is nothing Nothing at all Trips on the hymns of the world back in how long ago.
But he can still believe there's a place in high.
You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 28th, 2001.
Candice DeLong, 20 years in the FBI as a special agent, is my guest tonight.
And I just went searching on Amazon.com and found her book looking for a photograph of her.
And they've got the book there for a special agent, My Life on the Front Lines as a Woman in the FBI.
And they slashed the price.
That's what Amazon.com does.
I don't know how they can do that, but they do.
It's a really good book.
And I went searching for her picture.
It's not on the front of the book, but guess what?
It's on the back.
It certainly is.
I just had my wife get the book, and it's on the back, and I'll tell you all about it in a moment.
20 years in the FBI.
Well, there's no picture of Candace on the front of the book, you know, but on the back of the book, there's a great big full back cover picture of Candace DeLong.
One of my favorite stories is in a chapter called Girl Talk, where from start to finish, started at noon, was over at 8 p.m., and I convinced this suspect that I was after that I was the head of a call girl operation called the Candy Store, no less.
Someone, I was driving in my bureau car one day and over the bureau radio, not the good time radio, which is AMFM, but the bureau radio, someone was talking very, very dirty.
And believe me, you can't even swear over the bureau radio, let alone talk very, very dirty.
And I thought, oh my God, somebody's gotten hold of one of our radios, is either in a bureau car or stole a handy talkie, which is the same frequency.
And as it turns out, when I got back to the office, that's what I found out, that somebody had broken in to a car.
And of course, our cars are unmarked.
They apparently didn't, no one was responding to them.
None of the agents were saying any, nobody indicated that, you know, to the offender, we'll call him, that he actually was talking dirty over the FCC Airways on an FBI radio.
And so I thought, well, gee, you know, we've got to get our radio back.
And also he had stolen $3,000 of camera equipment from the same trunk of the car that he stole this from.
And so I went to the bosses and I said, look, all he's asking for is sex.
Let's give it to him.
And they looked at me like I was crazy.
And I said, look, I think we're dealing with a kid here, meaning a teenager.
All he wants is sex.
He wants this.
He wants that.
Let me go on the air and convince him that I'm a madam and that I communicate with my girls through handy talkies and I send them to their assignments.
Maybe not while they're on board, but give them a light beer and they will.
And it is this.
It's not so much the politics.
Yes, the politics exist.
The biggest problem with the FBI is FBI management.
Competent agents learn how to navigate the management waves so that you can work through them.
You know, I talk about in my book, you know, sometimes the best way to get something done is to go ahead and do it and better to ask forgiveness and permission.
Yeah, when you wrote the book, I know when I sat down to write my autobiography, I had, before I even, you know, wrote the first word, I spent a lot of time thinking about, well, what am I going to write?
Am I going to write really nice stuff about myself or really awful stuff, or am I just going to write it all?
And I finally decided, ah, the hell with it.
Who cares if everybody gets mad at me?
I'm just going to write the truth.
And that's really what I did.
And I'm still in trouble for it with a lot of people.
What I'm really happy about is that men as well as women seem to like the book, law enforcement as well as civilian.
I'm really happy with what people think about the book.
But as I was saying, what I did was, and what I'm happy about, a lot of these reader reviews, people are saying, gee, I really gave them an inside look at the FBI, including some of the bad stuff.
People have no idea what I didn't put in that book.
You realize that if you were to have a TV series or mutilate them after death, torture is the word we use for something done to a victim before they're death.
Mutilate is a word we use for after they're death.
Very different types of people commit those different acts.
And we know this through a tremendous amount of research that's been done, especially by the early profilers.
Research has been done interviewing these guys in prison, learning how they operate, the experience of the investigators.
And statistics play a role in profiling.
Let me give you one that I talk about in my book.
Highly significant.
And I've quoted a different statistic for the last five weeks since I've been a media consultant on the Chandra Levy case.
But before we get onto that, this is a statistic I use in my book.
And this gives you an example of how important statistics can be, although they're not probable cause for an arrest or search warrant, but just an investigative tool.
Right.
95% of the time, approximately 95% of the time, a child under 10 years old dies of blunt forced trauma to the head in their own home.
The killer was an adult primary caretaker.
Who are the primary caretakers of adult?
Usually mom, dad, and or adult babysitter.
What we know about children, okay, first of all, when you are looking at, when you have a child under 10 years old killed in their own home and they died of a skull fracture, you are looking at the results of an adult that lost their temper and hit that child too hard, either with their own hand or with an instrument.
That's what you're looking at.
Now, that's generally not a premeditated murder.
You're looking at manslaughter, still murder.
Sure it is.
But generally it's not premeditated.
What we do know because of studying so many child murders, when kids kill each other, when a seven-year-old kills a sister, they don't kill them that way.
And by the way, that almost never happens where siblings kill each other, even in anger.
Sometimes it's accidental.
But I mean, you're not going to see, you rarely see a seven-year-old picking up a baseball bat and smashing the skull of a three-year-old.
It happens not too often.
And generally what happens is what we know when these things happen, the adult in the house picks up the phone and calls 911.
What it tells you is you have to look at every adult that was in the house at the time the child died, and they must be eliminated first before you look for other suspects.
100% of the time of the cases that the FBI looked at where a child died in their own home and it was a staged crime scene, the killer was mom or dad or stepdad or a primary caretaker.
100% of the time they looked at something like 200 cases.
In response to your question about let's talk about the Chandra Levy case.
30% of the time an adult woman is killed in America, murdered in America, she was murdered by a man with whom she had an intimate relationship, either a current or past husband, boyfriend, or lover.
I was assigned to the San Francisco division in 1995.
I transferred there from Chicago, having spent 25 years in Chicago, 15 of which with the FBI.
And in the first few months I were there, there were three major news stories of women that were killed, raped and murdered in their own homes by men who had been there before.
Carpet cleaners, a delivery man, and one woman in case her front door was open and some kids were walking by and they were high on dope and they just decided to go in and kill somebody.
I think, well, it started in the early 80s when the FBI started looking at the early pioneers of profiling started looking at people that committed murders repeatedly, murdered people they didn't even know, in what appeared to be a motiveless crime.
Well, probably more than the average person because I've had a tremendous amount of training from the Behavioral Science Unit, and I read everything I can get my hands on and was involved in a number of cases that involve serial killers.
And one particular story I have in my book called The Bad Guy.
It's about a notorious serial killer in Illinois who are almost always guys, right?
Well, you know, the killers themselves, I mean, even Ted Bundy said after what, the sex was really perfunctory to the actual taking of the life is what became so powerful to him.
Knowing that you have the power to let this person live or die, and that's what he really got off on.
You know, the absolute worst thing that ever happened regarding, you know, after Ted Bundy was apprehended, some woman married him while he was on death row.
Okay, that's not my problem.
That's my problem.
But he was allowed to have a conjugal visit and he procreated a child with this woman.
Because, well, in his day, he would have been diagnosed as psychopath.
And that is a clinical term that has now evolved to the term evolved to sociopath.
And then it evolved to antisocial personality disorder.
Basically, that is a clinical term for a butthead.
It's what we call character disorder.
It's just a mentally ill for 10 years.
I mean, I work with people that literally heard voices in their head that told them they were evil and that they needed to eat flies because they were unworthy of food and they were very delusional.
But, you know, the interesting thing is the vast majority of schizophrenics that are delusional and hear voices and think that spaceships are drying up their blood, they really commit crimes.
I mean, these are the people, these are the, take a look.
I want your listeners to think, the next time they look at a homeless person on the street, the homeless people on the street that never look at you and ask you for money are probably schizophrenic.
They're hearing voices, they're delusional, they do not like people, they do not like being around people, they can't stand to be touched.
They are very unlikely to go up to you and say, do you have any spare change?
The people that are holding up signs saying, you know, we'll work for money, you know, or say, hey, buddy, have you got it?
You know, can you spare a dime?
Can you buy me a cup of coffee?
Chances are they're not mentally ill.
The very seriously mentally ill are that they don't even approach you.
And they rarely commit crimes, although sometimes, sometimes their delusions and their psychoses, meaning out of touch with reality, does result in them committing a crime.
I would like to talk about the woman that killed her family in Texas.
I believe she, from everything I read, is seriously mentally ill, psychotically depressed.
Does she try to hide it?
No.
Does she go on the lamb?
No.
She kills her children one by one.
Hey, I'm a mother.
I can understand being angry, but come on.
And then calls her husband and then calls the police and tells him what she did.
She had a history of mental illness.
She was on a major antipsychotic medication, Haldahl.
And now people are calling for her to be hung and executed because of what she did.
I'll tell you who, I tell you, not everybody associated with that horrible crime is in jail.
I mean, really, in a way, what Bundy did and what she did, both could be classified one way or the other as so deviant from normal as to be dubbed mental illness.
Except that Ted Bundy knew that what he was doing was wrong, and I do not believe this woman did.
Now, I wasn't there at the time she did it, but I think there's no comparing Ted Bundy planning, stalking, luring, torturing, and then raping and killing women.
I have, you know, getting back to the mental ill, before we get into the death penalty thing, because I can see this is going to really get into a long conversation.
I mean, I think a society should be judged on how they treat their mentally ill, and I don't think we do a very good job in this country.
And if you fit into a category, roughly described as not a danger to yourself or a danger to others, and yet you are not well enough mentally to hold down a job or be socially functional, then you fall through the cracks in America.
And I think that's kind of what we were talking about at the top of the hour.
Well, in a way, oftentimes if someone is, their mental illness is too severe for them to hold a job, and that would be generally we're talking about someone who's schizophrenic.
And just to have the listening audience know what I mean by that for sure, that does not mean multiple personality or split personality.
Schizophrenics are, it's a terrible, it's the most serious mental illness there is.
It's characterized by delusions and auditory hallucinations.
I mean, these people actually believe alien spaceships are controlling their mind and sending radio beams through the fillings in their teeth, and they may actually be hearing voices in their head that are very persecutory in nature.
You know, I never had a schizophrenic tell me that the voices in their head tell them, gee, you really look good today, Candace.
I mean, they're horrible things.
And they drive them to distraction.
With medication and treatment, oftentimes the auditory hallucinations and the delusions can be brought to a minimal so that sometimes they can hold menial jobs.
But oftentimes they can't.
And if they get into the system at some point, then they can be put on SSI disability income.
There is no reason for a seriously ill, mentally ill person in our society to be on the street begging for money.
You and I pay a lot of taxes so that they don't have to do that.
So if they are doing it, either they have never gotten into the system or for some reason or another, they can have enough money through SSI disability to have an inexpensive apartment, renting a room, and enough and food stamps.
I think we dropped the ball when it comes to taking care of the mentally ill in this country.
And it's not something, you know, I'm sure there's a certain number of your listeners going, oh, come on, who cares?
That doesn't affect me.
Believe me.
We need to take care of the mentally ill because it very much can affect you.
I even have a discussion in my book of one of the more famous cases, one of the original cases on profiling where profiling really worked out well.
The profile itself led to the identification and subsequent apprehension of a gruesome serial killer who was committing serious horrible murders because of his delusions.
He was killing people and drinking their blood.
It was a Sacramento vampire murder case in 1978.
He was killing people, disemboweling them, and drinking their blood because he really believed, and had for 10 years, that alien spaceships were drying up his blood, turning his blood into mud, and he had to replace it.
For years he killed small animals and drank their blood, and then he moved on to people.
Well, I thought it was a very, it was a 51-day fugitive standoff.
I wondered why, when we had snipers on numerous occasions, FBI snipers had David Koresh's head in the crosshairs of their scopes, why they didn't take him out.
It is my understanding, based on congressional hearings and congressional testimony at least three times, that we had reason to believe that Koresh was about to do something very serious and that the greatest negotiators that we had believed that he was about to do something serious, kill his own people, whatever.
And so at that point we moved in, put in the tear gas to get the people out, and you saw what happened.
I mean, he set the place on fire.
Most of the people that were killed in the compound, there were people piled up, his own people piled up in front of the exit doors with bullets in the back of their heads.
Of course, you can imagine that because it is our own agency and we are pro-law enforcement and also a conservative agency, that there were a lot of feelings and thoughts that, gee, it's really bad it went down this way, but we're glad it's over.
On the other hand, it was, you know, that there were so many children died.
I never saw what happened as murder.
I came home one day shortly after that happened.
I lived in a residential neighborhood in Chicago, a suburb, and one of my neighbors, I got out of my car, I said, hi, how you doing?
She turned her back to me.
I thought she didn't hear me, and I said, hey, how you doing?
And she turned to me and she said, how could you kill babies?
All I know is that it was another federal agency had him on some kind of weapons charge and sent up the U.S. Marshals to get him, and things went from bad to worse.
I can tell you that when I was in Montana on the Kaczynski situation, we had many, many long hours and many discussions about how to arrest Kaczynski.
And we felt that very strongly as a result of what happened at Ruby Ridge and Waco, that the best way to get Kaczynski and to avoid another Ruby Ridge or Waco is lure him out and mug him.
Mug him when he comes to town, you know, scoop him up, lure him out, grab him.
There's no reason for a Cecil B. DeMille production here.
We hear about all the, you know, the ones that turn out well.
We don't hear about the ones that got away.
And there have got to be the ones that get away.
What was the biggest case, without mentioning names, if it's important not to, that you ever worked on, that you just knew damn well you had the perpetrator or the killer or whatever, and you couldn't get him or her?
You know, I've never been asked that, and I don't know the answer.
I wasn't involved at that level.
But the interesting thing about it was, in negotiations with the extortionist, he said, deposit the money in this account at this bank, blah, blah, blah, XX Bank.
And so we immediately find out who has that account, and it's this businessman who ran an employment agency in Chicago, and it becomes obvious very quickly he is not the guy that sent us extortion out.
So what's the first question you ask anybody like that?
Well, who in the world would want to frame you for murder?
I mean, one of the highest profile crime in America today.
And he says, well, you know, I didn't know I had any.
Well, I did.
There was this woman.
I was unable to pay her her last paycheck.
I went bankrupt.
I couldn't pay all my employees.
Her husband Was very upset about that, and he tried to rally.
To catch the bad guy is to take somebody who committed maybe some kind of horrible crime and plea bargain with him instead of life in prison or the death penalty.
You know, you're talking 25 or 20 years or 15 years or even 10 years.
Listen, hold on.
We'll get to this when we get back.
I'm Art Bell.
And oh, yes, this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 28, 2001.
Coast to Coast AM from August 28, 2001.
What the people need is a way to make them fire.
And if the mother do it, you know how to get them heavy, get it all through.
Oh, my mother's gone this way.
Oh, my mother's gone this way.
Be it sight, the sand, the smell, the touch, there's something inside that we need so much.
The sight of the touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak root deep in the ground.
The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
To lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing.
All these things in our memories more.
And the unfortunate bear.
I do my life.
But by now, by now, you're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 28th, 2001.
Her book is Special Agent, My Life on the Front Lines as a Woman in the FBI.
You go to my website and you go to program tonight's guest info.
It'll take you right over to Amazon.com where you can buy that book at a gigantic discount.
And Candace, though, a couple of times saying you're going to have to read the book, has been very candid with us on very, very difficult subjects, and I'm going to take her back to one of them in a moment.
I was very, very upset that the Department of Justice paid Randy Weaver, I think, $2 or $3, $4 million.
And then later congressional hearings, we don't even know who shot his son.
I would have liked to have seen that adjudicated.
I have this to say about Ruby Ridge and Waco.
In both situations, the media was very present, very involved.
And whenever that happens, we can't do our job effectively.
I think personally, and there are those that would be very angry with me saying this, in my profession, I think that the negotiations went on way too long.
You know, yes, better to negotiate and save lives than not negotiate and lose lives, but gosh, look what happened anyway.
You know, there's no right or wrong answers.
I mean, humans, you know, don't ever count on them too much.
I think when the media gets involved in any case, the case can become media-driven.
That's not always bad.
Case in point, the case in the news right now, the Chandra Levy case, I think but for the media, Chandra Levy would just be another missing person and this investigation that we've got going wouldn't have happened.
And I believe, despite everyone in the world saying you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong, I believe this case is going to be solved.
I don't know that it's going to be solved tomorrow.
You know, I'm sure, you know, when the ATF hit Waco, they had their video cameras running to show essentially how they were going to, and this is a quote on you, how they were going to legally exercise a search warrant.
Of course, people came out of Waco, says that Koresh met them at the door and was met with a hail of bullets.
Now, you know, they bulldozed the thing afterward.
They had a video clip, and this was discussed on Art Bill's Kadong show way back when.
But anyway, in that video clip, it showed this modified tank chassis delivering your CS hitting the upwind corner of that building.
There was a light in the upper window.
That light went down, and a few seconds later, flames came up.
Now, ma'am, I don't know how much research you've done on this, but, you know, a conspiracy law not only applies, in my opinion, to we as individuals, but also to people who are involved in this sort of thing.
And the National Rifle Association offered on its own expense to x-ray all the weapons, remains that were there to determine whether or not there was anything illegal.
And the federal government wouldn't have it.
Now, I think that, until this is resolved, I think that we really fear a Gestapo-like federal agency.
I mean, the kind of thing that happened down there, we never even heard of coming out of Nazi Germany.
Well, now, that man is representative of a lot of thought in the country about that incident.
Whether it's justified or not, that's the way it turned out.
And there's a lot of people who believe as that man believes.
And that had to have hurt.
You know, it hurt everybody.
There was an innocent time in America.
I grew up in it in the 50s.
And, God, you know, when the FBI would come out and announce the capture of some fugitive that they'd been after for a long time, man, you could take that to the bank.
The American people would believe the FBI, boom, boom, boom, boom, just like that.
Even though J. Edgar Hoover was there, we just, we believed every single word with good reason.
I think it did, and I think it certainly changed the way certain people look at the FBI.
But what I also believe is that, you know, in my 30-plus years as an adult, 10 years in mental health and 20 years with the federal government in a law enforcement agency, there are certain people who hold attitudes that the facts don't matter.
And there are certainly people in law enforcement who the facts don't matter.
And you're never going to have a meeting of the minds.
You're never going to have a meeting of the minds.
To quote Mark Kloss, father of kidnap, rape, murder, victim, Polycloth, psychics are the second wave of predators.
This is what I have to say to psychics because I worked cases, the vast majority of cases that I worked as a profiler had to do with missing people and murdered people, women, and children.
And psychics come out of it, and they all say the same thing.
I see water, I see a fence.
And this is what I have to say to them.
Hand them a shovel and say, really, you know what the victim is?
Here, show me where you are going to dig.
I have never known, ever, in my 20 years as an agent of a psychic to be accurate.
Never.
If they were that good, and if there were so many of them that are that good, how come we have so many missing people in unsolved murders?
Oh, well, then I would imagine the number is astronomical.
A lot of people go missing having nothing to do with having met a violent end by another person.
People with Alzheimer's walk out of their homes and walk into the forest.
People, mentally ill people, walk into people just go missing for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with being murdered or some people meet with a terribly violent, untimely demise that had nothing to do with another person.
No, you bring up a good point, and I certainly didn't mean to convey to anyone that I believe the mentally ill are without conscience.
In fact, basically the only type of mental illness category of people that don't seem to have a conscience is a category that we would call the sociopath, the psychopath, or the antisocial personality.
But the fact that he has a conscience, that he feels badly about what he has done, implies clearly that he understands he is doing wrong when he does it.
I would just like to know, first of all, good morning, everyone.
Secondly, I'll be short and brief.
When the United States Justice Department, they definitely have a lot on their hands from immigration to law enforcement.
But I was wondering if your guest is being less than forthcoming or simply does not know or want to acknowledge human intelligence, electronic intelligence, rumor intelligence, the operation of American armed forces on American soil working against Americans themselves.
This is not something I'm making up.
Give us instead of when the FBI goes in, oh, let's make it the DEA.
When they make a seizure, this is intelligence that's gathered by recon units.
And the United States Marine Corps generally, usually 80, 90% of the time, they go in, leave, they give the DEA the information that they need.
The DEA lands, they confiscate, and then they make the headlines.
But they didn't really do the intelligence work, as I was talking about, rumor intelligence, human intelligence, electronic intelligence, signals intelligence.
In Waco, for instance, the intelligence that was given to the United States Justice Department ahead of time was that Mr. Karash could have been picking up jogging.
But as she pointed out, they were serving a search warrant when all this began.
But, you know, you've got a good point.
Hindsight is always 20-20.
But again, Candace, we don't have a lot of time here, but there is a man who believes that U.S. military forces are being used in conjunction with domestic federal agencies like the FBI, for example.
Well, I believe that it was at least two presidential administrations ago where I think it had to do with the drug war, I could be wrong on this, and President Bush, where we got involved and started using the U.S. military to help us on the war on drugs.
Regarding their involvement on anything not drug-related, I couldn't comment on that.
I did work drugs for three years.
I worked with the DEA.
I never work with the military.
I'm reading a book right now called Killing Pablo about the hunt.
I have a problem sending a ghetto mom who's trying to feed two kids to prison for 10 years because she was running drugs so she could buy groceries for her kids.
We need to do something with her, but we definitely need to get her bosses in jail.
Very tough to do.
I'll tell you straight up, I don't have an answer to the drug problem, but I do not want to see drugs legalized in this country.