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Aug. 28, 2001 - Art Bell

01:48:26

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Candice DeLong - FBI Investigator

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39:02

candice delong

44:31

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 28th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest.
		I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon.
		It is only going to run this week.
		That's it.
		This week.
		It will begin, has begun, and will end this week.
		As you know, I have written a number of books.
		I'm not big on autograph.
		I'll tell you something about autographs.
		This is kind of interesting, and it's a trend that I've noticed in the last, oh, I don't know, couple of years.
		There are, you cannot imagine, you can't imagine how many professional autograph seekers are out there.
		Now, these are people who really don't listen to your program at all or don't really know you at all.
		Their entire life is seeking autographs from celebrities.
		And I presume they collect them in hopes that when you kick the bucket, you know, your autograph becomes worth money.
		that's all i can presume you get these sort of The president is very concerned with regard to the information in your letter, and the president will contact the appropriate authorities and follow up on it.
		You know, you get a sort of a rubber stamp letter.
		Hi, I've really always enjoyed your work, and I think you're fabulous.
		And would you please send me an autograph, a signed picture, autograph, whatever.
		And I'm getting zillions of these, and I roundly ignore them.
		I totally ignore them.
		I never do them.
		There's something to me kind of macabre about that.
		People who would simply go to everybody who's in the public spotlight one way or the other, probably good, bad, or indifferent.
		You know, you could be a mass murderer.
unidentified		Hey, God, get your autograph.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's just, you know, it's just for the value of the signature after you're gone.
		Kind of strange.
		Anyway, as you know, I've written a number of books that really, really reflect what I think in more ways than one.
		The Art of Talk is My Baby.
		The Art of Talk is an autobiography.
		It's all about my life.
		And in it, I told a whole bunch of stuff that I shouldn't have told.
		And to this day, get grief for.
		You know, I just opened up and told it the way it is.
		So, The Art of Talk, I think you'll like that one.
		The quickening, which is every bit, you know, after I am gone and the autograph people go to collect my money or their money, if there is any to be made, $9.95, whatever, this book will still be operative because the quickening will still be going on.
		Maybe.
		Obviously, events are racing toward some sort of culmination.
		The quickening was a definitive work on that, I think.
		At least mine, that's for sure.
		And the source, which I co-authored with Brad Steiger, about all things paranormal, having one source.
		Again, every bit as good today as it was the day it was written.
		All three of these books, autographed, personally autographed by me, are available till the end of the week, and that's it.
		This is like a one-time year and a half special.
		I don't think we've done this in a year and a half.
		So all three books autographed for $59.95 plus $7.95 shipping and handling.
		Or, by the way, you can get any one of the single books if you wish, but this is a pretty good bargain.
		$59.95, all three autographed plus $7.95 shipping and handling.
		You can call right now, tonight, this minute, or during the day.
		If you're unable to get through tonight, you can call during the day.
		But you ought to give it a try right now.
		End of the week is the end of the offer.
		Stay right where you are.
unidentified		Stay right where you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's so much that I should be covering that I've been saving while all of this controversy has been going on.
		I mean, there really is a lot going on there.
		And I think this could probably be classified as part of the quickening, in my opinion.
		And then we'll open the lines here.
		Let me read you about three separate, or in part, three separate emails that I've received that I think are relevant.
		Hey, Art, have you noticed the stories about confused animals?
		Fox ran a piece on a moose in a pool and also about a cub bear in a kiddie pool.
		One could not miss the strange behavior of the sharks off Florida.
		Makes you wonder something big might be brewing.
		Makes me glad I live in Michigan and not California if you get my drift.
		You should call your guest who predicts earthquakes, see what he thinks.
		Or this, hey art, sharks are nibbling on swimmers in the Atlantic waters.
		During a recent trip to Sweden, I learned that the scourges of my ancestors have returned to plague-rule Swedes, the bear, the cougar, the moose, the wolf.
		And here in Texas, home of gigantic cockroaches referred to euphemistically as water bugs, the bugs are disappearing.
		The habitat of lizards has spread north.
		We now have a plague of these little guys.
		The newts, no bigger than an inch and a half, are eating cockroaches larger than they are.
		The lizards are like chameleons.
		They take on the coloration of whatever they're crawling on.
		My local ones don't seem to be able to match my yellow porch very well, but do a masterly job of imitating brickwork.
		In Florida, from the Orlando Sentinel, the headline is Dying Birds Rain on Eola.
		Birds fell dead from the trees and sky around downtown Orlando's Lake Eola Park on Friday, Stunning residents out for an evening stroll and leaving officials struggling to find an explanation.
		Nearly 100 birds began simply dropping from trees or even falling in mid-flight about 6 p.m. in the popular park on the east side of downtown.
		Most were grackles and pigeons, but at least one duck was found dead.
		Egrets and a lake in all the famous black swans did not appear to be affected.
		But folks, birds just flat fell out of the sky, fell out of their perches on trees like that.
		Now, what do you suppose all of this means?
		There can be no question.
		The number of shark attacks that have been going on, legs lost, bites, and all the rest of it, reported nearly on a daily basis now, well, I'll tell you, it is part of the quickening.
		Be sure of it.
		Do the crop circles fit into all of this?
		Probably.
		Does it all mean something and mean something is coming pretty soon now?
		Probably.
		That'd be my take anyway.
		I wonder what yours is.
		And so that's what I, as I said, we're going to open lines and just see what's on your mind out there.
		Shall we do that?
		First time caller line, you are on the air.
		Good morning.
		Morning.
		Hi there.
		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, off, off there.
		There.
		All the way.
		Yes, good.
		No, turn it off.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your name?
unidentified		My name is Billy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Billy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And where are you, Billy?
unidentified		I am in Ashland, Kentucky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ashland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Welcome.
		I got a question, R. I was on the website today at work, and I was looking into crop circles.
		Yes.
		And I noticed at the bottom of the crop circle, there appears to be a humanoid shape at the bottom of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you referring now to the Chilbolton crop circle that is said to be perhaps an answer to the Arecibo signal?
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, yes.
unidentified		And I was wondering, have they perhaps came close to maybe interpreting what any of those symbols are inside the fat head?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, inside the head.
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, it seems like there's some symbols or something inside the head.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You may be looking at it too hard.
		All I see is a head.
		You know, a big head, albeit, but a head.
unidentified		Okay, and, you know, me and my wife will be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Either either that or clean your computer screen.
unidentified		That could be a good possibility there.
unidentified		And how far were the face, was the face from that crop circle itself?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, a way for you to gauge that yourself is to go to the photograph on my website of the two glyphs, the face and the answer, and look at them in relationship to the great big satellite dish there.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you see the satellite dish?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that satellite dish is 80 feet in diameter.
		Wow.
		So if you just sort of use a little anything and measure the 80 feet and go on out, it'll help you.
unidentified		Okay, I appreciate it.
		Me and my wife, we just really feel that this is going to be the beginning of something tremendous.
		And a lot of people here in the area feel that way, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then you and your wife and myself are in total agreement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, my friend.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Wildcard line, you are on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
		This is Raymond.
		I'm calling from Michigan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		My niece and nephew, they're five years old, they're twins, and they're in preschool.
		And they came home and told my sister, their mom one day, something that I thought was pretty cool that I didn't know they were doing.
		They're teaching them in preschool about Bigfoot.
		What?
		Yeah, how about that?
		No.
		I don't think they're teaching high schoolers yet.
		No.
		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you sure?
unidentified		Yeah, he said they're learning about Bigfoot, and he explained to my sister exactly what it was, and he said he loved it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is the school teaching about Bigfoot?
		I mean, what are they saying?
		Do you know?
unidentified		Well, I don't know.
		No, I don't live that near them, so I talk to him on the phone every once in a while.
		But he just said he came home.
		They were teaching them in school.
		They told them about Bigfoot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bigfoot is your friend.
unidentified		Well, he said that what he got out of it was, you know, he ended up saying to my sister that, you know, he really thought Bigfoot was neat and everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really neat, huh?
unidentified		And I went and rented them the movie Harry and the Hendersons, thinking it would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, now, Harry and the Hendersons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I'm not sure that that represents Bigfoot as we understand Bigfoot.
unidentified		No, no, it doesn't.
unidentified		But I didn't want him to be afraid of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how old are these two?
unidentified		Five years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Five years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what are their names?
unidentified		Jake and Katie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jake and Katie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		little Jake and Katie in case you should be awake at this hour here's my version of Bigfoot Now, if they were to include that reputed to be real Bigfoot sound in the curriculum, how do you think Jake and Katie would handle it?
unidentified		I think the bad dreams would begin immediately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning, evening, whatever.
		Art.
unidentified		Yes.
		Yeah, I can't believe I got through.
		This is Kurt.
		I'm calling from Youngstown.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Kurt.
unidentified		I'm a time zone traveler from Phoenix, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're a time zone traveler from Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		You know what that is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's when you go from one time zone to another.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Truck driver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, is that what that means?
unidentified		All right.
		Yeah, I just thought of that one night.
		I have a lot of time to think when I'm driving and listening to you.
		But anyways, I've always wanted to give you a theory of UFOs.
		Okay.
		Yeah, of what's going on.
		Okay.
		As far as like, you know, how we think that we come from Mars, there's evidence of beings coming from Mars.
		And I think possibly it's the UFOs are actually repopulating the next Earth.
		Possibly, you never know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean the next Earth?
unidentified		Yeah, if it's destroyed before, Mars was destroyed before.
unidentified		We have this theory that it's going to happen again, so they're repopulating the Earth, the next Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Think about this.
		Maybe the cycle of destruction visits itself on Earth and Mars every now and then, every a few million years or something like that.
		So maybe the truth is every few million years, the population has got to move back and forth, back and forth.
		Earth to Mars, Mars to Earth, Earth to Mars.
unidentified		Right.
		Well, it has to go to a new one, but you never know.
		It could be Venus, the next one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Venus is not so friendly for human beings.
unidentified		Well, according to the reversal, speech reversals, the guys from NASA were coming up with Americans of Venus on Mars, Americans and buildings on Venus or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe, but would you get on a rocket bound for Venus as your new home because you've got a one-way ticket, right?
		Based on speech reversals?
		If the guy from NASA said, listen, Earth is in its last minutes here, and you're going to get to be one of the ones to make it to the new home.
		Venus.
		And we've got these speech reversals that seem to justify our sending you there.
unidentified		Hop on board.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air.
		Good morning.
		Going once.
		Going twice.
		Gone.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, uh, this is this is the RPL program?
unidentified		Coast to Coast AM?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would appear so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would hope so.
unidentified		Uh yeah, I was gonna just call and respond to uh an issue about the sharks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, yes, the sharks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And for that matter, a lot of the other animals behaving all of a sudden in kind of a strange way, wouldn't you say?
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever seen this many shark stories ever?
unidentified		No, I have not.
		Right.
		One of the strange thing, what I was calling to talk about, is that this is not the first time in history that this has happened.
		This has happened in several documented cases.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably happened before the big meteor hit the Yucatan, for example, but we don't remember.
unidentified		But, you know, one of the instances, I mean, you know, there was a film a few years ago called The Ghost in the Darkness that came out, which was just the film, of course, but based on the true incident of these lions in a place called Sabo in Africa that basically just started randomly killing 100 people, two of them, for no particular reason at all.
		And the fact of the matter is, is lions don't normally do such a thing.
		And they believe by the end of it killed about 100 people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The lions killed.
		You know what?
		I think I remember that story, sir.
		Yeah, I do recall that story, in fact.
		They went on a real human-eaten rampage.
		Listen, can you hold on?
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stay right there.
		We'll be right back from the high desert.
		This is Coast to Coast AM in Open Lives.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Summer in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 28, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from August
		28, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from August 28, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from August 28, 2001.
		Featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 28, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This song absolutely haunts me, and I don't know why.
		But it haunts me.
		In a very pleasant kind of way.
		So different than anything else he did.
		Good morning, everybody.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		And always a buddy.
		From the dead of the sea, this is Maggie.
		Do you want to take a ride?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You got to admit, that's pretty cute.
unidentified		Sounds of a fire
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At the top of the hour, we're going to be talking with an FBI agent, a woman.
		I call her Clarice.
		She's actually Kentis DeLong, but, you know, when you think of a woman FBI agent, you know, that's really stereotyping, too.
		I mean, you have to think of Clarice, right?
		And Hannibal.
		You just have to.
		So we'll ask her about that.
		She worked on cases like that, too.
		So it's going to be kind of interesting.
		Have you ever seen a time like this when things are so strange?
		They just seem to get stranger and faster and stranger and faster.
		And West Nile virus now is spreading as well.
		We're talking about the animals, but West Nile virus is headed my way.
		It moves south and it's moving west.
		And I would presume that before too long, despite the authorities' best efforts to eradicate the mosquito, something I don't think they're going to do, it's moving.
		And it's moving toward Me and us in general.
		And you're back on the air again, sir.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		First off, I just wanted to say quickly that in these times where we have practically no coverage of the paranormal at all anywhere, and specifically about the subjects that have been happening over the past week, which I won't get into, which everyone knows, I appreciate your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thank you very much.
		It's a pleasure to be able to cover stuff that aren't...
		You know, I haven't mentioned the whole Condit thing, and I'm not really going to, although I've asked tonight's guest about it.
		But I have had it.
		And I guess I wonder why.
unidentified		Yeah, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the bigger scheme of things, it seems so, so insignificant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
unidentified		In comparison with the space and a field in England, I really don't care about conda, you know.
unidentified		Sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, maybe we're not plugged in the right way or something, sir, but I absolutely agree with you.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I guess mainly what I was going to call about tonight is you were talking about the recent rash of shark attacks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		And basically I was just going to bring up the idea that this may not be new news to anyone, but this is strange.
		This has happened several times in history.
		Never has there been more sharks, of course, but yes, there's also been other attacks recently.
		There was a bear in Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		I believe came into a suburb and attacked a woman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct the mundo.
unidentified		There was a, I believe I even referred to an otter, like several otters killing someone about several weeks ago, and I thought that was absurd when it gets to the point where otters are killing people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lots of bear coming down, jumping in pools, swimming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there's all kinds of strange animal behavior going on right now, and it probably means something if we were smart enough to listen.
unidentified		And I mean, you know, a few years ago there was a film released called The Ghost in the Darkness, which many people may remember.
		That was a true story, which is basically about two lions in an area of Africa called Sabo about 100 years or so ago.
		And the British were trying to build a bridge, basically, across this area of land.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I saw the movie.
unidentified		Yeah, just in case anyone hasn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And these things just decided to turn on humans, and they picked them off one by one, by one by one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was horrible.
unidentified		Death count is just tremendous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I saw the movie, sir, and I appreciate the call.
		You're absolutely right.
		For anybody out there willing to listen, the behavior of animals is odd right now.
		Can you deny that?
		I don't think so.
		Speaking of animals, I have got a really, really, really, really, really cute picture on my webcam right now that I got tonight.
		First time ever, I got both of my pinky cats.
		Meaning, I've got a picture of myself holding Comet.
		He's the one on the left with his ears back.
		And Yeti, our darling new one, on the right.
		And they're together.
		And taking a picture like that with those two is a flesh-threatening experience.
		But I did get them to calm down and pay attention.
		Now, Comet, you know, if you get a camera, any kind of thing that looks like a camera within 20 feet of Comet, he'll be gone like, you know, the speeding bullet after Superman.
		I mean, he's just gone.
		He knows a camera.
		But he doesn't know my webcams because they're always there, and he hasn't figured out their cameras yet.
		So it's the only way I've ever in recent years been able to get a picture of Comet.
		He's the one on the left, totally feral.
		The one on the right is our new little monster named Yeti.
		He's something else.
		But I got them both in one photograph.
		It's on my webcam right now.
		If you go to my website at artbell.com, click on program.
		What is it?
		It says there.
		Program.
		And then Art Bell Studio Cam.
		You'll see the picture I took at 9.49 Pacific Time, just a few minutes ago, actually.
		On the international line, you are on the air.
		Where are you, Pray tell?
unidentified		Australia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Australia, welcome to the program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, you going?
unidentified		Good.
		What I wanted to talk to you about was clairvoyants, psychics.
		How much faith do you put in them?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me put it to you this way.
		It's my view, after years of interviewing some of the best of them, that some of them absolutely are real and have a talent that, whether you like it or not, is real and they can really do what they say they do.
		And then there are some charlatans.
		So on the one hand, I absolutely believe the phenomena is a real phenomenon.
		No question about it.
		On the other hand, I know there are charlatans out there, too.
unidentified		Well, how does one then decide who's a charlatan and who's for real?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you do that, do you know?
		Well, you have to be intuitive.
		I don't know.
		I really don't want to say anything bad about anybody, but when I see something on TV and it says, want to know about your boyfriend?
		Want to know if your girlfriend's going out on you?
		Call 1-900, you know, whatever.
		I tend to sort of blow that off in my mind, probably like a lot of people, right?
		But on the other hand, when I run into somebody like Daniel Brinkley, who scared the you-know-what out of me several times with his ability, I know I've met the real McCoy.
unidentified		This fellow, we've got him on TV down here now, John Edwards.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Oh, yes, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John started off on the science fiction channel, and now he's in syndication and apparently has reached all the way to Australia.
		John Edwards says he talks to the other side.
		You know, I don't know.
		I think there is another side.
		I think I'm pretty well convinced of that.
		I doubt that our energy ceases, so I really tend to believe, you know, there is a place where we go or a time, or maybe it's no time and no place, but a place where our consciousness resides after physical death.
		I'm more cautious about those who claim to speak to that side.
		But maybe.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, good evening, Art.
unidentified		It's John and Scottsdale.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, John.
unidentified		I'm sitting out in my backyard in my trampoline looking at a football moon arcing its way to the western goalpost horizon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I bet it's a beautiful night, too.
		People have no idea how nice the desert is at night.
		Now, during the day here, it's been going about 111.
		I bet it's in Phoenix.
unidentified		Yeah, it's been hellish, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But once the sun goes down, you have this wonderful dry air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here, for example, at the moment, it's 88 degrees.
unidentified		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it is just beautiful out there.
unidentified		Yeah, it's very nice.
unidentified		What I wanted to discuss with you tonight was last night's program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I got onto the website before the show began, and I was waiting with eagerness to hear about some new information with the crop glyphs and all that, because my son and I have been watching it pretty closely.
unidentified		In fact, he was doing some diddling with the artwork and produced some interesting things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute, I'm getting a psychic vision.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a plane going over.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Yes, strobe lights ablaze and heading towards Scottsdale Airport over here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's a female pilot, about 34.
unidentified		And she's good looking, I can see her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, back to the cross circle.
unidentified		Sure.
		We were looking at the images that were lined up for the night's program, and it looked like there was quite a bit of factual material to absorb, and we were rubbing our hands and waiting for the show to start.
		And then he started getting into it with Seth, and I have to say, I don't want to complain because this is the best damn show ever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can betch all you want.
unidentified		Well, I'm going to, because the man really doesn't know anything about crop circles.
unidentified		And I was sitting there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To be fair, though, he doesn't pretend to.
unidentified		Okay, but it just seemed like he was getting in the way of what might have been intended as some good information.
unidentified		And I can bet you're going to be able to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard, don't worry.
		Radio is a long-form thing.
		Now, in all likelihood, I'll have Richard on again tomorrow night.
		I'll tell you a little secret.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard has talked to the Chilbolton Observatory.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so he's going to have a bit of news for us.
unidentified		Ah, good.
unidentified		That'll be nice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		We're sort of letting this story continue to develop.
		And, you know, we'll go over all of that stuff.
		Don't worry about it.
		Don't worry.
unidentified		All right, my friend, your steak awaits you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Bye-bye.
		Easter the Rockies.
		You're on the air.
		Top of the morning.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good evening, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in Mansfield, Ohio.
unidentified		This is Doug.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Doug.
unidentified		Yes.
		I am so glad I got through, and I think he will be too.
		Last December 20.
		The air of the car The air of the car She doesn't give you time to question as she locks up your arm and holds.
		And you follow your young breath of which direction completely disappears.
		While the boots hobbled off, never market stores.
		But the hinder she leads you to.
		These days, friends, I feel my life just like a river running through the air of the camp.
		This is a production of the U.S. Department of State.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired August 28, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In a few moments, we're going to enter the world of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
		We've got a gal who was there for a whole career, Candace DeLong.
		Of course, you're going to think, as I have, of Clarice Starling.
		How can you not?
		There aren't that many women.
		Well, I guess there are a lot of women down there.
		I will ask.
		I don't know how many women are in the FBI, but she was, and she's got a lot of good stories to tell tonight.
unidentified		�� I'm very respectful of the saxophone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For me, it's like a cat purring.
		You know, it calms me down.
		Anyway, good morning, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell, and if you'll stay right where you are, we're going into a whole different world in just a moment.
		The book is Special Agent.
		My Life on the Front Lines as a Woman in the FBI.
		For 20 years, Candace DeLong was on the front lines of some of the FBI's most memorable and gripping cases.
		Some have called her a real-life Clarice Starling and a female Donnie Brasco.
		She's tailed terrorists, gone undercover as a gangster's mall, was one of the agents chosen to carry out the manhunt for the Unibomber in Montana.
		That must have been really frightening.
		For the first time, she reveals the dangers and rewards of her career as a field profiler in the FBI.
		A field profiler.
		I guess we're going to find out in a moment what that is.
		Here is Candace DeLong.
		Candice, welcome to the program.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, it's great to have you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand you just got off an airplane, huh?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Just a few minutes ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where were you coming from?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I was flying from Northern California to Southern.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're in Southern California now?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Why, let's see, 20 years.
		Let's see.
		You would have been then one of the first women FBI agents, period, wouldn't you?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, the first woman came in in 1972.
		They admitted just one, and she was admitted a few hours after Hoover's soul ascended into heaven, assuming that's where it went.
		And then they just, it was just a trickle of women, one and then two and then three.
		And when I came in in 1980, there was only about 4% of the workforce was female and that's where I was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think Jag or Hoover went to heaven?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I have no evidence that he didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why did you even want to go into the FBI?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, I had been a psychiatric nurse for almost a decade, and I had spent most of my nursing career in maximum security, and I had eventually become head nurse of a major metropolitan psychiatric hospital at one.
		And, you know, psych nursing is pretty draining, very stressful job.
		And in 1978, I met an FBI agent, and we became friends.
		And he introduced me to his partner one day, and his partner was a little teeny gal, about five feet tall, 100 pounds, hair down to her waist, really cool suede boots.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you jealous?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Oh, damn, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		You can say which one.
		If you say anything too awful, I'll bleep it out, no problem.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I thought, what the heck?
		I didn't know the FBI.
		You know, of course, I knew about federal agents.
		Elliot Ness was kind of a mythical figure in my family.
		My dad was an informant for him during the Great Depression.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ooh.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So I kind of grew up with he saw her all about his symptoms so that when he saw her on such and such a date, she would be ready to order all the tests that he would need, and she would be able to do everything in one day, and he would not have to stay overnight.
		And of course, he was always counting his pennies.
		And I mean, literally, this man lived on about $300 a year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I saw his cabin, if you can call it that.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And so, in this letter, he said, he wrote the letter in 1992, and he said, I've been under stress for about 14 years.
		Well, if you subtract 14 years from 1992, that's 1978 when he placed the first bomb in Chicago.
		And he said in that letter, I've been under extreme stress since 19 years.
		Five years prior to 1992 was when he was seen placing a bomb down behind a computer store in Utah and was seen by someone and the composite sketch of the Unibomber became famous to America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you read his manifesto?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I had, yeah, when I needed to get to sleep, yeah.
		I couldn't get through it.
		To me, it was interesting, parts of it, but it just, it read like a doctoral dissertation.
		Yes.
		I just decided to wait until the movie came out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		Portions of it I thought actually were brilliant.
		He was actually a brilliant man in a lot of ways, wasn't he?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		No doubt about it.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Misguided for sure, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Misguided for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But then finally, the judge signs and you and I suppose a whole bunch of others sort of assault that little cabin, right?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Not exactly.
		What I left out here was after three weeks of my partners and I running around much, and I would use the word guarded, stiff, much like Congressman Condit was last Thursday night with Connie Chung.
		Gee, how'd I get that work in?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know, it's the first time anybody's mentioned it on my show.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		You know, yeah, I mean, you know, certainly you knew you were sitting across the table from a smart person, but oh, how I wanted to reach over and go, not feeling so smart now, are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You didn't do that, huh?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Despite what Hollywood would have you think about cops and agents slapping people around and using...
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Not in my professional life, no.
unidentified		You're giving me your private life a little bit, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's surprising.
		One of my favorite shows on TV is Law and Order.
		I think it's a wonderful program.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They occasionally slap people around.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		There are no federal agents on that show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So federal agents don't do that.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I was an FBI agent for 20 years.
		I worked with DEA agents.
		I worked with periodically ATF agents.
		And no, you know what?
		That's Hollywood nonsense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I never saw anyone do anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, in New York City homicide, you don't think a suspect could get flapped around?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, I think they could.
		And I think they, you know, I work with Chicago homicide cops too, and I think that probably does happen.
		I never witnessed it because you do know that the FBI has jurisdiction for investigating police brutality.
		It's a federal violation, a civil rights violation.
		So most cops would be rather, well, not too very smart to slap a suspect around in front of an FBI agent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		In front of an FBI agent.
		When you and your partner, whether, not in the Kaczynski case, but in a case where you would be interrogating someone, do you play, have you played good cop, bad cop?
		Is that a really common thing to do?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		If I'm having a moody day, I can play both roles by myself.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		That PMS thing can really work in your favor if you're a female agent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't have said it.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I'll say it.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I'm proud of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just really nice one moment and ripping into them the next moment.
		That actually does work, doesn't it?
		In other words, whether it's you at any single moment or you and your partner, the good cop, bad cop thing really works.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		It can with an inexperienced or what we call criminally unsophisticated suspect.
		Yeah, it can.
		It can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The FBI, though, more times than not is dealing with more sophisticated folks, aren't they?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Oftentimes.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Of course, we also deal with what I call raggedy-ass bank robbers all the way up to extremely brilliant terrorists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just before the break here, I have one quick question for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What year would you expect, Candace, that we would see the first female FBI Director.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I think probably within a decade.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Within a decade.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So by, say, 2012.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If we're all still here.
unidentified		All right.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know that she'll come up through the ranks as Louis Free did.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		But yeah, I can imagine within a decade we'll have a female director.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Things really have changed.
		Hold it right there.
		We'll be right back.
		Top of the hour.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 28th, 2001.
		What it is ain't exactly clear.
		There's a man with a gun over there.
		Telling me I've got to beware.
		I think it's time we stop.
		Children, watch that sound.
		Everybody look what's going down.
		There's a smile for his nostalgia turn.
		Thank you.
		Never coming near what you wanted to play.
		Or did you realize he never really wanted to see everything in his life and things as she rises to her follows you?
		Anybody else would surely know Who's watching her go Who's got a fool to believe Do you see The white man's eyes are falling She's freezing away What you see To
		be There always is nothing Nothing at all Trips on the hymns of the world back in how long ago.
		But he can still believe there's a place in high.
		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 28th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Candice DeLong, 20 years in the FBI as a special agent, is my guest tonight.
		And I just went searching on Amazon.com and found her book looking for a photograph of her.
		And they've got the book there for a special agent, My Life on the Front Lines as a Woman in the FBI.
		And they slashed the price.
		That's what Amazon.com does.
		I don't know how they can do that, but they do.
		It's a really good book.
		And I went searching for her picture.
		It's not on the front of the book, but guess what?
		It's on the back.
		It certainly is.
		I just had my wife get the book, and it's on the back, and I'll tell you all about it in a moment.
		20 years in the FBI.
		Well, there's no picture of Candace on the front of the book, you know, but on the back of the book, there's a great big full back cover picture of Candace DeLong.
unidentified		And boy, those are big guns.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's a big gun.
		You're really cute.
		You're really cute, Candace.
		Oh, cute.
		What kind of gun is that?
		My God.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		That's a Glock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a Glock.
		Yeah, I thought it might be a Glock.
		That's my.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		By look, however, that's what we call, my son calls, the DDS, the DeLong death stare.
		When he was young, I could control him in a restaurant just glaring at him like that.
		You come through in my personal life, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does look like a death stare.
unidentified		You're right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm sure they took this picture.
		That wasn't a standard FBI picture, of course.
		That was done for the book, right?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		He was already retired.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, they picked a big lock, didn't they?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, and a little gal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How tall are you?
unidentified		5'5.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		5'5.
		All right.
		Such a good-looking woman.
		20 years.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		I use myself as bait.
		There's a couple stories in the book.
		One of my favorite stories is in a chapter called Girl Talk, where from start to finish, started at noon, was over at 8 p.m., and I convinced this suspect that I was after that I was the head of a call girl operation called the Candy Store, no less.
		And actually, it's one of my favorite stories.
		It's great fun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, tell me about it.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, someone...
		Don't worry.
		Someone, I was driving in my bureau car one day and over the bureau radio, not the good time radio, which is AMFM, but the bureau radio, someone was talking very, very dirty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Over the bureau radio?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Over the bureau radio.
		And believe me, you can't even swear over the bureau radio, let alone talk very, very dirty.
		And I thought, oh my God, somebody's gotten hold of one of our radios, is either in a bureau car or stole a handy talkie, which is the same frequency.
		And as it turns out, when I got back to the office, that's what I found out, that somebody had broken in to a car.
		And of course, our cars are unmarked.
		They apparently didn't, no one was responding to them.
		None of the agents were saying any, nobody indicated that, you know, to the offender, we'll call him, that he actually was talking dirty over the FCC Airways on an FBI radio.
		And so I thought, well, gee, you know, we've got to get our radio back.
		And also he had stolen $3,000 of camera equipment from the same trunk of the car that he stole this from.
		And so I went to the bosses and I said, look, all he's asking for is sex.
		Let's give it to him.
		And they looked at me like I was crazy.
		And I said, look, I think we're dealing with a kid here, meaning a teenager.
		All he wants is sex.
		He wants this.
		He wants that.
		Let me go on the air and convince him that I'm a madam and that I communicate with my girls through handy talkies and I send them to their assignments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the FBI frequency.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, on the same frequency he was using, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was he aware that he was on an FBI frequency?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Which also told me that we were dealing with someone pretty young and unsophisticated.
		Most retired agents and cops.
		I mean, you put people in jail over the years, you know, sometimes they hold a grudge.
		Sure.
		I'm not aware of any FBI agent that's ever been injured or killed by someone they put in jail after, I mean, many years later.
		Certainly FBI agents and family members have been threatened and have had to be relocated.
		But it's pretty hard to find me.
		I'm very cautious.
		You know, it just would be difficult.
		And, you know, I just use a lot of common sense.
		And I'm really irritable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really irritable.
		Did you ever run into a bad FBI agent?
		And when I say bad, I mean bad cop.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I was going to say someone I didn't like.
		Let's see.
		No.
		In terms of like Robert Hansen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		No.
		No.
		I'm happy to say they are few and far between.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who investigates the FBI, Candice?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Department of Justice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How frequently does that occur?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Pretty often.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does it really?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I mean, being in the FBI, you know, I call it a Catholic school, again.
		There's a lot of rules and regulations.
		I even have a chapter in my book where I ran afoul of Bureau regulations.
		You're not allowed to have a second job.
		And when I needed money, I periodically would moonlight as a nurse.
		I'm a registered nurse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't they pay FBI agents enough?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, they didn't.
		You know, I was a single parent.
		And, you know, living in a major city, it was pretty tough making ends meet.
		And I would periodically work as a nurse.
		And that's a no-no.
		It's not against the law.
		It's against Bureau rules.
		And so anytime an agent breaks a rule, whether it's minor or major, and not to mention breaking the law, then they are investigated.
		Now, we used to investigate ourselves, but now we're investigated by the Department of Justice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think that's a good idea?
unidentified		Yeah.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I think some of our rules and regulations are a little ridiculous.
		And I talk about that in my book, not just because I got caught moonlighting as a nurse.
		Hey, I broke the rules and I paid the price for it.
		But there are agents in the Bureau who are not making cases and not whipping off enough adrenaline for themselves.
		And so they sit around and they file ridiculous complaints on other agents.
		And they all have to be investigated.
		And this costs taxpayers time and money.
		And so some of them I think are ridiculous, and probably 60%, I'm told, are bogus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One of my closest friends in life has been a man named John Pyre.
		Candace, he spent 20-plus in the FBI and retired.
		And, you know, we had a lot of conversations.
		John and I talked a lot.
		And he complained endlessly about the politics in the FBI.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		True?
unidentified		Yes.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		You know, like any other organization and the bureaucracy.
		You know, people interview me.
		I've probably had 200-plus interviews since April 19th when the book first came out in Great Britain and then here in America May 1st.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Aren't you tired of it all?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, no.
		But one of the most frequently asked questions is, Candace, you had such a great career.
		There's a lot of good stories in this book.
		You could have gone seven more years.
		Why did you leave?
		Don't you miss it?
		Well, you just asked me a question.
		There's my answer.
		The politics and the bureaucracy.
		Such a great career.
unidentified		Hey, love to stay, got to go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And do you feel free now?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Oh, free at last.
unidentified		Free at last.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does the politics get so bad that it prevents at times competent law enforcement?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, it can.
		I think it's not so much the politics.
		Most FBI agents would say this to you.
		Maybe not while they're on board, but give them a light beer and they will.
		And it is this.
		It's not so much the politics.
		Yes, the politics exist.
		The biggest problem with the FBI is FBI management.
		Competent agents learn how to navigate the management waves so that you can work through them.
		You know, I talk about in my book, you know, sometimes the best way to get something done is to go ahead and do it and better to ask forgiveness and permission.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, when you wrote the book, I know when I sat down to write my autobiography, I had, before I even, you know, wrote the first word, I spent a lot of time thinking about, well, what am I going to write?
		Am I going to write really nice stuff about myself or really awful stuff, or am I just going to write it all?
		And I finally decided, ah, the hell with it.
		Who cares if everybody gets mad at me?
		I'm just going to write the truth.
		And that's really what I did.
		And I'm still in trouble for it with a lot of people.
		I wonder if you went through that same process.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, I didn't want, yes I did.
		I went through that process.
		I didn't want my book to be what I would call a bitch and moan fest.
		And I pretty much, it's like going through labor and having a baby.
		I left out the bad and put in the good.
		Although, I've noticed I've got about 28 reader reviews on Amazon.com now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I just checked them out.
		By the way, you did actually very well.
		It looks to me like, where are the stars?
		One, two, three, four and a half stars.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm very happy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Based on 29 reviews up there, that's really good.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		29?
		Well, there's one I don't know about.
		What I'm really happy about is that men as well as women seem to like the book, law enforcement as well as civilian.
		I'm really happy with what people think about the book.
		But as I was saying, what I did was, and what I'm happy about, a lot of these reader reviews, people are saying, gee, I really gave them an inside look at the FBI, including some of the bad stuff.
		People have no idea what I didn't put in that book.
		Trust me, I'm saving that for the TV series.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of stuff, without being specific, what kind of stuff did you not put in that book?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Oh, treachery, betrayal, backstabbing among agents.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you mean normal FBI?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Pretty much, you know.
		And that's before you even, you know, get to 10 a.m.
		You know incompetence, jealousy, you know, women sleeping with the boss to get what they want.
		I mean, any female professional sleeping with the boss, in my opinion, is the anti-feminist.
		And when you're in law enforcement and you're in a predominantly male-dominated profession, to be sleeping with the boss is just the worst.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I once interviewed a very brilliant female lawyer, and she advocated and not only advocated, but in fact slept her way to the top.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And she said, it's the only way to go.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, I never took that route, and I would vehemently disagree with that.
		She pulls a lot of that stuff out.
		But it'll make for a good TV series, I can tell you that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you want to have a TV series?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of interest in Hollywood for that.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I'm not at liberty to give more details, but it could go that direction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		You realize that if you were to have a TV series or mutilate them after death, torture is the word we use for something done to a victim before they're death.
		Mutilate is a word we use for after they're death.
		Very different types of people commit those different acts.
		And we know this through a tremendous amount of research that's been done, especially by the early profilers.
		Research has been done interviewing these guys in prison, learning how they operate, the experience of the investigators.
		And statistics play a role in profiling.
		Let me give you one that I talk about in my book.
		Highly significant.
		And I've quoted a different statistic for the last five weeks since I've been a media consultant on the Chandra Levy case.
		But before we get onto that, this is a statistic I use in my book.
		And this gives you an example of how important statistics can be, although they're not probable cause for an arrest or search warrant, but just an investigative tool.
		Right.
		95% of the time, approximately 95% of the time, a child under 10 years old dies of blunt forced trauma to the head in their own home.
		The killer was an adult primary caretaker.
		Who are the primary caretakers of adult?
		Usually mom, dad, and or adult babysitter.
		What we know about children, okay, first of all, when you are looking at, when you have a child under 10 years old killed in their own home and they died of a skull fracture, you are looking at the results of an adult that lost their temper and hit that child too hard, either with their own hand or with an instrument.
		That's what you're looking at.
		Now, that's generally not a premeditated murder.
		You're looking at manslaughter, still murder.
		Sure it is.
		But generally it's not premeditated.
		What we do know because of studying so many child murders, when kids kill each other, when a seven-year-old kills a sister, they don't kill them that way.
		And by the way, that almost never happens where siblings kill each other, even in anger.
		Sometimes it's accidental.
		But I mean, you're not going to see, you rarely see a seven-year-old picking up a baseball bat and smashing the skull of a three-year-old.
		It happens not too often.
		And generally what happens is what we know when these things happen, the adult in the house picks up the phone and calls 911.
		Now, that's a very, very high statistic, 95%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure is.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		What it tells you is you have to look at every adult that was in the house at the time the child died, and they must be eliminated first before you look for other suspects.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Now, let me tell you about another statistic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		100% of the time of the cases that the FBI looked at where a child died in their own home and it was a staged crime scene, the killer was mom or dad or stepdad or a primary caretaker.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		100% of the time they looked at something like 200 cases.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's incredible.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That really is incredible.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		So that is, okay, another example, because I've been all over the TV.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I've done about 50 TV spots since Chandra Levy disappeared.
unidentified		Right.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		And I do talk about this in my book because I did most of the crimes that I was involved in profiling, the victims were women or children.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Women and children tend to be the victims of sex offenders.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's, why not?
		I'm sorry.
		I'm sorry.
		I was just going to say, let's get your take on the whole Chandra Levy thing.
		Okay, well, I'll.
		It's absolutely dominant.
		I've never seen anything like it.
		I don't see people understand it.
		It's dominating.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Connett, for an interesting summer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Here's another statistic.
		In response to your question about let's talk about the Chandra Levy case.
		30% of the time an adult woman is killed in America, murdered in America, she was murdered by a man with whom she had an intimate relationship, either a current or past husband, boyfriend, or lover.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One-third of the time.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		One-third.
		Now, a full another 46%, bringing it up to around 76%, are murdered by someone that they know.
		That's pretty high.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So keep your eye on the ones you love, huh?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
		Don't turn your back.
		Now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that all goes to motive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, most murders are murders of passion one way or the other.
unidentified		Anger, revenge, except for the total sickos.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Now, so somebody said to me on one of one of them, but Ms. DeLong, that leaves a full 24% are being killed by serial killers.
		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		The other 24% are women who are at a convenience store at the wrong time when somebody comes in and starts shooting.
		Women that are in a bank robbery when someone starts shooting.
		A little girl or an 18-year-old girl walking home from high school and she's caught in the crossfire of a gang shootout.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you say women?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why isn't it equally possible that a man in the wrong place at the wrong time in a convenience store is likely to be shot?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		It absolutely can be.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I'm just talking about the percentage of time a woman is killed, 76% of the time it's someone that she knows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		And someone I just want to point out to your listeners, the other 24% are not serial killers.
		In fact, the number of women killed by serial killers, I would imagine it's less than 1%.
		It's highly rare, but they get all the publicity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So look to the ones you love.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		The ones you love, the ones you know.
		I was assigned to the San Francisco division in 1995.
		I transferred there from Chicago, having spent 25 years in Chicago, 15 of which with the FBI.
		And in the first few months I were there, there were three major news stories of women that were killed, raped and murdered in their own homes by men who had been there before.
		Carpet cleaners, a delivery man, and one woman in case her front door was open and some kids were walking by and they were high on dope and they just decided to go in and kill somebody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what, Candace, these are all killings that, even horrible as they are, we understand them because there's motive.
		For some reason, the American public is and always has been fascinated with people who kill without apparent motive.
		Now, obviously, there's always motive, sick personal motive, perhaps, but serial killers.
		For some reason, we have a special fascination for serial killers.
		Why?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I think, well, it started in the early 80s when the FBI started looking at the early pioneers of profiling started looking at people that committed murders repeatedly, murdered people they didn't even know, in what appeared to be a motiveless crime.
		They appear to be motiveless.
		In fact, they are not without motive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're also sexier crimes for the FBI, too, if truth be told, right?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		You know, and much more difficult to solve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of course.
		Of course.
		So how much do you know about serial killers?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, probably more than the average person because I've had a tremendous amount of training from the Behavioral Science Unit, and I read everything I can get my hands on and was involved in a number of cases that involve serial killers.
		And one particular story I have in my book called The Bad Guy.
		It's about a notorious serial killer in Illinois who are almost always guys, right?
		99% of the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Serial killers.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I'm only aware of one serial killer that was a woman, and she would pick up a guy in a bar, entice him.
		He would take her back to a hotel.
		She would have sex with him and kill him and steal his money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Black widow.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, generally when women are serial killers, it's for profit.
		Marry a rich guy, poison him.
		He looks like he died of a heart attack, get his money.
		Marry another rich guy, you know.
		Or what we see, these euthanasia serial killers, these nurses that kill people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it can't just be for money because they do it again and again.
		So there's another, there's some other element there.
		Right?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, but it's not as, there's no sexual component to it.
		There's no sadistic component to their personality.
		It's not like the Ted Bundy type of serial killings that we see.
		The stalking, the luring, the.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What percentage of the time in serial killer cases is part of the crime or the gratification for the crime sexual?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would say a fairly high percentage, more than 50%, that there is a sexual component to the crime.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What you would call the main motivation for the crime, or is it secondary to it?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the killers themselves, I mean, even Ted Bundy said after what, the sex was really perfunctory to the actual taking of the life is what became so powerful to him.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Knowing that you have the power to let this person live or die, and that's what he really got off on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Should Ted Bundy have been executed?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Should he have been?
		Yeah.
		Well, in Bundy's particular case, there wasn't a great deal to be learned.
		I mean, it was only a few days before he was to be executed before he finally went, okay, you got me, I did it.
		Here, you know, ask me anything you want.
		And there was a book written, a very, very interesting book, very revealing book, called The Only Living Witness.
		It was written by two journalists, one of whom's name is Stephen Michod, and I hope that the other one's listening.
		He forgives me.
		I don't remember his name.
		And Stephen Michod, what they did was they got Bundy to talk in third person.
		Okay, you didn't do it, but tell us about the type of person that might have.
		And so they got Bundy to talk in third person, and it was pretty revealing.
		Pretty revealing.
		Yeah, you know, I have no problem with Bundy being executed.
		If you ask me that because you're wondering, couldn't we have learned from him, he wouldn't let us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is why I asked.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		You know, the absolute worst thing that ever happened regarding, you know, after Ted Bundy was apprehended, some woman married him while he was on death row.
		Okay, that's not my problem.
		That's my problem.
		But he was allowed to have a conjugal visit and he procreated a child with this woman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		No, you didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I have no idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		And she always maintained he was innocent.
		And of course, until the last few days, and he went, yep, I killed all these women.
		And then he told us about some people we didn't even know he'd killed.
		And yeah, he actually was allowed to have a conjugal.
		And that's my problem.
		No one convicted of murder and on death row should ever be allowed to have any happiness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a problem executing mentally ill?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I can't believe that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How could Bundy not have been classically mentally ill?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Because, well, in his day, he would have been diagnosed as psychopath.
		And that is a clinical term that has now evolved to the term evolved to sociopath.
		And then it evolved to antisocial personality disorder.
		Basically, that is a clinical term for a butthead.
		It's what we call character disorder.
		It's just a mentally ill for 10 years.
		I mean, I work with people that literally heard voices in their head that told them they were evil and that they needed to eat flies because they were unworthy of food and they were very delusional.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Psychotic schizophrenic, young people.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's mentally ill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, but so is a compulsion to kill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's a mighty fine line in a lot of ways, isn't it?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, yeah, it is.
		But, you know, the interesting thing is the vast majority of schizophrenics that are delusional and hear voices and think that spaceships are drying up their blood, they really commit crimes.
		I mean, these are the people, these are the, take a look.
		I want your listeners to think, the next time they look at a homeless person on the street, the homeless people on the street that never look at you and ask you for money are probably schizophrenic.
		They're hearing voices, they're delusional, they do not like people, they do not like being around people, they can't stand to be touched.
		They are very unlikely to go up to you and say, do you have any spare change?
		The people that are holding up signs saying, you know, we'll work for money, you know, or say, hey, buddy, have you got it?
		You know, can you spare a dime?
		Can you buy me a cup of coffee?
		Chances are they're not mentally ill.
		The very seriously mentally ill are that they don't even approach you.
		And they rarely commit crimes, although sometimes, sometimes their delusions and their psychoses, meaning out of touch with reality, does result in them committing a crime.
		I would like to talk about the woman that killed her family in Texas.
		I believe she, from everything I read, is seriously mentally ill, psychotically depressed.
		Does she try to hide it?
		No.
		Does she go on the lamb?
		No.
		She kills her children one by one.
		Hey, I'm a mother.
		I can understand being angry, but come on.
		And then calls her husband and then calls the police and tells him what she did.
		She had a history of mental illness.
		She was on a major antipsychotic medication, Haldahl.
		And now people are calling for her to be hung and executed because of what she did.
		I'll tell you who, I tell you, not everybody associated with that horrible crime is in jail.
		The husband and the doctor should be in the jail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is a very fine line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, really, in a way, what Bundy did and what she did, both could be classified one way or the other as so deviant from normal as to be dubbed mental illness.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Except that Ted Bundy knew that what he was doing was wrong, and I do not believe this woman did.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Now, I wasn't there at the time she did it, but I think there's no comparing Ted Bundy planning, stalking, luring, torturing, and then raping and killing women.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're a strong believer in the death penalty.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		You know what, Art?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Not as strong as I used to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Too many people have gotten off of death row because DNA cleared them, so how can I be, I'm not the hang-em-high person I used to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that is a recent trend and very worrisome and concerning it should be for everybody.
		So many DNA reports suddenly springing people who were on death row out of death row.
		Any proponent of the death penalty has got to at least be considering that.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		I have, you know, getting back to the mental ill, before we get into the death penalty thing, because I can see this is going to really get into a long conversation.
		I mean, I think a society should be judged on how they treat their mentally ill, and I don't think we do a very good job in this country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nor do I. Listen, we're right at the top of the hour, and we'll pick up on this when we get back.
		Stay right there.
		Candice DeLong, her book is Special Agent, Find Life on the Front Lines as a Woman in the FBI.
		Check it out on Amazon.com through my website right now.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 28, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from China.
		I gave you love.
		I thought that we had made it to the top.
		I gave you all I have to give.
		Why didn't it happen to the top?
		You know it all got telling me a lie.
		You know you feet well another crazy day.
		You gotta wait and forget about everything.
		It did make you feel so cold.
		It's got so many people, but you've got no soul.
		And it takes me so long.
		I thought you were wrong.
		When you thought I held everything, you could think that it could be.
		But you're trying, you're trying now.
		How do you make it be happy?
		How do you make it be happy?
		But you're crying, you're crying now.
		You're crying now.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight's an on-core presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 28th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		20 years in the FBI, and then she wrote a book.
		And it's out now special agent, my life on the front lines as a woman in the FBI.
		I bet a lot of people, when she wrote that book, while she was in the process, wondered what she was going to write.
unidentified		Bet a lot of people wondered what she was going to write.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Candace DeLong will be right back.
		Here, once again, is Candace DeLong.
		And if you fit into a category, roughly described as not a danger to yourself or a danger to others, and yet you are not well enough mentally to hold down a job or be socially functional, then you fall through the cracks in America.
		And I think that's kind of what we were talking about at the top of the hour.
		Is that about the right category, Candice?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, in a way, oftentimes if someone is, their mental illness is too severe for them to hold a job, and that would be generally we're talking about someone who's schizophrenic.
unidentified		Sure.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		And just to have the listening audience know what I mean by that for sure, that does not mean multiple personality or split personality.
		Schizophrenics are, it's a terrible, it's the most serious mental illness there is.
		It's characterized by delusions and auditory hallucinations.
		I mean, these people actually believe alien spaceships are controlling their mind and sending radio beams through the fillings in their teeth, and they may actually be hearing voices in their head that are very persecutory in nature.
		You know, I never had a schizophrenic tell me that the voices in their head tell them, gee, you really look good today, Candace.
		I mean, they're horrible things.
		And they drive them to distraction.
		With medication and treatment, oftentimes the auditory hallucinations and the delusions can be brought to a minimal so that sometimes they can hold menial jobs.
		But oftentimes they can't.
		And if they get into the system at some point, then they can be put on SSI disability income.
		There is no reason for a seriously ill, mentally ill person in our society to be on the street begging for money.
		There is no reason for it at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But they are there.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		You and I pay a lot of taxes so that they don't have to do that.
		So if they are doing it, either they have never gotten into the system or for some reason or another, they can have enough money through SSI disability to have an inexpensive apartment, renting a room, and enough and food stamps.
		They do not have to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But they do.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		And not just the mentally ill, but the physically disabled too.
		Yes, they do.
		But as I mentioned earlier, oftentimes these are the homeless people on the streets that are not asking you for money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe we can't be so proud of the society we have created until we finally get to that problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've said that for years, and I believe that, too.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I think we dropped the ball when it comes to taking care of the mentally ill in this country.
		And it's not something, you know, I'm sure there's a certain number of your listeners going, oh, come on, who cares?
		That doesn't affect me.
		Believe me.
		We need to take care of the mentally ill because it very much can affect you.
		I even have a discussion in my book of one of the more famous cases, one of the original cases on profiling where profiling really worked out well.
		The profile itself led to the identification and subsequent apprehension of a gruesome serial killer who was committing serious horrible murders because of his delusions.
		He was killing people and drinking their blood.
		It was a Sacramento vampire murder case in 1978.
		He was killing people, disemboweling them, and drinking their blood because he really believed, and had for 10 years, that alien spaceships were drying up his blood, turning his blood into mud, and he had to replace it.
		For years he killed small animals and drank their blood, and then he moved on to people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, that's classic vampire behavior.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Vampirism actually is a clinical term.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you know that?
		Well, listen, I talked to a bishop in Great Britain who's been dealing with vampires all his adult life and killed one.
		It was quite a story.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Yikes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yikes is right.
		And that brings me to this question.
		You know, my program frequently focuses on X-Files kinds of things.
		Did you, during your period in the FBI, ever hear of any investigation that was going on that sounded kind of like an X-Files investigation?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the thing is, I get asked this all the time.
		Actually, we have, we used to work the X-Files, but we've got the alien population now well under control.
		Most of them work for the IRS.
		If that sounded rehearsed, it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You never did, is the answer to that?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		No.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		And I think, you know, if there is anything like that, I have a feeling that would fall under the purview of the United States Air Force.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I want to ask you about two things that are not going to be easy now, okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The first is, what were your emotions and thoughts when you saw the compound at Waco go up in flames?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, I thought it was a very, it was a 51-day fugitive standoff.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I wondered why, when we had snipers on numerous occasions, FBI snipers had David Koresh's head in the crosshairs of their scopes, why they didn't take him out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think we are.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Wrong or right, I believe that oftentimes when you cut off the head, the rest of the snake will die.
		It was horrible that those children died.
		The FBI, I believe, was not responsible for that.
		We did not set fires.
		It had a horrible ending.
		However, I know there's been videos made, there's a lot of conspiracy theorists, the FBI started the fire and FORIA.
		That didn't happen.
		And there's been a tremendous amount of taxpayers' money spent on proving that it didn't happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But couldn't David Koresh have been taken, if not out, into custody without having it turn into this godforsaken standoff that it did?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, people forget this.
		This did not start out as an FBI case.
		That was an ATF case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, indeed, but I do recall, I think Most of the public does, almost a daily briefing by the head FBI fellow at Waco once it got there.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		What a lot of people don't realize that initially the ATF was serving a legal search warrant, and seven agents were shot, four died.
		And then the FBI was called in.
		And so every, you know, and then of course we were there.
		The whole thing went up in flames and we had put tear gas into the compound.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you there?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		No, goodness, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		You know, the FBI was there.
		We put tear gas into the compound.
		Usually that has the effect of people come out.
		You know, it had gone on for 51 days.
		Disastrous consequences, for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I remember the FBI agent in charge saying, we'll wait until freeze is over if we have to.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, really.
		That didn't happen.
		It is my understanding, based on congressional hearings and congressional testimony at least three times, that we had reason to believe that Koresh was about to do something very serious and that the greatest negotiators that we had believed that he was about to do something serious, kill his own people, whatever.
		And so at that point we moved in, put in the tear gas to get the people out, and you saw what happened.
		I mean, he set the place on fire.
		Most of the people that were killed in the compound, there were people piled up, his own people piled up in front of the exit doors with bullets in the back of their heads.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You probably got to watch it on CNN, like most everybody else.
		What was the mood in the FBI, you know, when all of us were in the FBI?
		all that came down?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Mixed.
		Of course, you can imagine that because it is our own agency and we are pro-law enforcement and also a conservative agency, that there were a lot of feelings and thoughts that, gee, it's really bad it went down this way, but we're glad it's over.
		On the other hand, it was, you know, that there were so many children died.
		I never saw what happened as murder.
		I came home one day shortly after that happened.
		I lived in a residential neighborhood in Chicago, a suburb, and one of my neighbors, I got out of my car, I said, hi, how you doing?
		She turned her back to me.
		I thought she didn't hear me, and I said, hey, how you doing?
		And she turned to me and she said, how could you kill babies?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it was demoralizing.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		It was demoralizing, and I lived through a few of these in my 20 years in the FBI.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Ruby Ridge, Waco.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ruby Ridge was going to be the next one I was going to ask you.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, when actually, most people don't realize this, but Ruby Ridge was before Waco happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some pretty rough stuff at Ruby Ridge.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Once again, the FBI called in after.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, but you correct me if I'm wrong here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Didn't this begin over a gun barrel that was maybe a quarter or half an inch or something, too much sawed off, but a tiny amount relatively?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know the exact details.
		All I know is that it was another federal agency had him on some kind of weapons charge and sent up the U.S. Marshals to get him, and things went from bad to worse.
		I can tell you that when I was in Montana on the Kaczynski situation, we had many, many long hours and many discussions about how to arrest Kaczynski.
		And we felt that very strongly as a result of what happened at Ruby Ridge and Waco, that the best way to get Kaczynski and to avoid another Ruby Ridge or Waco is lure him out and mug him.
		Mug him when he comes to town, you know, scoop him up, lure him out, grab him.
		There's no reason for a Cecil B. DeMille production here.
		The guy's going to come out of his cabin.
		If he doesn't come out, we'll lure him out.
		We grab him, put him in cuffs.
		We've seen him while we search his cabin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the top in the FBI, I'm sure after these two incidences, that message went out, didn't it?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would imagine.
		That's certainly how we felt.
		And I was with members of the San Francisco Unibomb Task Force, and that was how we felt.
		And there also was pressure from headquarters to maybe have the hostage rescue team arrest the Unibomber.
		Well, I can tell you this.
		FBI agents live for one thing, and it's to arrest someone and put the cuffs on them after a long-term investigation.
		You don't want to do all the work and then hand it over to somebody else.
		The best part of an investigation is arresting someone.
		Well, the conviction's the next best thing.
		But, I mean, come on, you live for that.
		There was no way we wanted to turn that over to people that hadn't even been involved in the case.
		And I think, you know, in looking back, we obviously made the right decision.
		No shots were fired.
		No one was hurt.
		You know, everything went well.
		And there you go.
		Suspect in custody?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We hear about all the, you know, the ones that turn out well.
		We don't hear about the ones that got away.
		And there have got to be the ones that get away.
		What was the biggest case, without mentioning names, if it's important not to, that you ever worked on, that you just knew damn well you had the perpetrator or the killer or whatever, and you couldn't get him or her?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Chapter 5 in my book, Over the Counter, The Tylenol Murderer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the Tylenol Murderer.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember that pesky guy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, of course, you were on that case?
unidentified		Yes.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I was a rookie.
		It was 1982.
		And for your younger listeners, in 1982, one Thursday, Friday in Chicago, seven or eight people dropped dead shortly after ingesting Tylenol.
		Unconnected people all over the city.
		And a link was eventually made.
		A couple paramedics in different municipalities made the link because they were friends and they talked to each other.
		And gee, I took this girl to the hospital after she had taken Tylenol.
		She said, gee, that's funny.
		I took this guy to the hospital after, you know, because when you die of a cyanide poisoning, it looks like you're having a heart attack.
		Except 12-year-old girls don't have heart attacks.
		And so they made the connection, and pretty soon it was verified that it was Tylenol, tainted Tylenol, and the race was on.
		And one week after all these people died, an extortion note was received by the makers of Tylenol saying for a million dollars I'll stop the killing.
		Deposit $1 million in this account.
		And he gave an account number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did they want to pay?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Pardon me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did they want to pay?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, you know, they were very cooperative.
		One of the very first things they did was take all of Tylenol off the shelf.
		They didn't even have to be asked to.
		Nationwide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My question was, did they want to pay?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		You know, I've never been asked that, and I don't know the answer.
		I wasn't involved at that level.
		But the interesting thing about it was, in negotiations with the extortionist, he said, deposit the money in this account at this bank, blah, blah, blah, XX Bank.
		And so we immediately find out who has that account, and it's this businessman who ran an employment agency in Chicago, and it becomes obvious very quickly he is not the guy that sent us extortion out.
		So what's the first question you ask anybody like that?
		Well, who in the world would want to frame you for murder?
		I mean, one of the highest profile crime in America today.
		And he says, well, you know, I didn't know I had any.
		Well, I did.
		There was this woman.
		I was unable to pay her her last paycheck.
		I went bankrupt.
		I couldn't pay all my employees.
		Her husband Was very upset about that, and he tried to rally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To catch the bad guy is to take somebody who committed maybe some kind of horrible crime and plea bargain with him instead of life in prison or the death penalty.
		You know, you're talking 25 or 20 years or 15 years or even 10 years.
		Listen, hold on.
		We'll get to this when we get back.
		I'm Art Bell.
		And oh, yes, this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 28, 2001.
		Coast to Coast AM from August 28, 2001.
		What the people need is a way to make them fire.
		And if the mother do it, you know how to get them heavy, get it all through.
		Oh, my mother's gone this way.
		Oh, my mother's gone this way.
		Be it sight, the sand, the smell, the touch, there's something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of the touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak root deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
		To lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing.
		All these things in our memories more.
		And the unfortunate bear.
		I do my life.
		But by now, by now, you're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 28th, 2001.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Candace DeLong, 20 years in the FBI, is my guest.
		Her book is Special Agent, My Life on the Front Lines as a Woman in the FBI.
		You go to my website and you go to program tonight's guest info.
		It'll take you right over to Amazon.com where you can buy that book at a gigantic discount.
		And Candace, though, a couple of times saying you're going to have to read the book, has been very candid with us on very, very difficult subjects, and I'm going to take her back to one of them in a moment.
		I'm Art Bell as we move through the night.
		Stay right where you are.
unidentified		Stay right where you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'm going to entertain some phone calls this half hour.
		Just a couple of things that I want to get out of the way.
		Candice DeLong, once again, welcome back, and thanks for being a trooper and staying with us the whole time here.
		Oh, thank you.
		Candace, plea bargaining.
		Sometimes to the American public, it is sickening.
		And I would imagine that.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		That's what it's sickening to us, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you can have somebody who actually committed a murder, but you need to get somebody even bigger, and you can actually bargain away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Almost, it's like bargaining away a life in a way, isn't it?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		It seems that way.
		I have a case that I talk about in my book of a serial killer, I think I mentioned him earlier, in Illinois, a serial killer of women and children.
		And when he was caught, he immediately cut a deal.
		You know, I'll tell you where the body is.
		And, you know, I want life, no parole, you know, rather than death.
		And the prosecutors took it, and I was livid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was it the only way the case was going to get made?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I didn't think so, but I was told, hey, DeLong, a bird in the hand, two in the bush.
		You never know how a jury's going to go.
		But you know what?
		When you've got a dead kid, pretty much who's ever sitting at the defendant's table is going to go away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, it must make for some long nights.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you not take a lot of that home with you, or did you?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I did.
		I did.
		And at the time, I was raising a little boy, who's a young man now.
		And it was tough.
		Very, very, very tough.
		But, you know, you swallow it and you power through it and you go on.
		If you let it get to you, you can't do your job.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You kind of walked away from the Ruby Ridge question a little bit.
		Ruby Ridge, again, the same kind of question for you as Waco, and that is, how did that affect you when it came down?
		How did that affect the agency?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was disheartening, to say the least.
		We were generally, well, I'll speak for myself.
		I can't speak for the agency.
		I was very, very upset that the Department of Justice paid Randy Weaver, I think, $2 or $3, $4 million.
		And then later congressional hearings, we don't even know who shot his son.
		I would have liked to have seen that adjudicated.
		I have this to say about Ruby Ridge and Waco.
		In both situations, the media was very present, very involved.
		And whenever that happens, we can't do our job effectively.
		I think personally, and there are those that would be very angry with me saying this, in my profession, I think that the negotiations went on way too long.
		You know, yes, better to negotiate and save lives than not negotiate and lose lives, but gosh, look what happened anyway.
		You know, there's no right or wrong answers.
		I mean, humans, you know, don't ever count on them too much.
		They'll always let you down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much would you say the agency is moved by the media?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I think when the media gets involved in any case, the case can become media-driven.
		That's not always bad.
		Case in point, the case in the news right now, the Chandra Levy case, I think but for the media, Chandra Levy would just be another missing person and this investigation that we've got going wouldn't have happened.
		And I believe, despite everyone in the world saying you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong, I believe this case is going to be solved.
		I don't know that it's going to be solved tomorrow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I think we are going to know what happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whether you think it'll actually come to a conclusion.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, when?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, not when you're that.
		But you already answered the question.
		Now, whether it will ever come to a conclusion.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I believe it will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		I believe it will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's take a couple of calls.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Candace DeLong and RFL.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Is that me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's you.
unidentified		Yeah, I have an observation and a question.
		You know, I'm sure, you know, when the ATF hit Waco, they had their video cameras running to show essentially how they were going to, and this is a quote on you, how they were going to legally exercise a search warrant.
		Of course, people came out of Waco, says that Koresh met them at the door and was met with a hail of bullets.
		Now, you know, they bulldozed the thing afterward.
		They had a video clip, and this was discussed on Art Bill's Kadong show way back when.
		But anyway, in that video clip, it showed this modified tank chassis delivering your CS hitting the upwind corner of that building.
		There was a light in the upper window.
		That light went down, and a few seconds later, flames came up.
		Now, ma'am, I don't know how much research you've done on this, but, you know, a conspiracy law not only applies, in my opinion, to we as individuals, but also to people who are involved in this sort of thing.
		And the National Rifle Association offered on its own expense to x-ray all the weapons, remains that were there to determine whether or not there was anything illegal.
		And the federal government wouldn't have it.
		Now, I think that, until this is resolved, I think that we really fear a Gestapo-like federal agency.
		I mean, the kind of thing that happened down there, we never even heard of coming out of Nazi Germany.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, now, that man is representative of a lot of thought in the country about that incident.
		Whether it's justified or not, that's the way it turned out.
		And there's a lot of people who believe as that man believes.
		And that had to have hurt.
		You know, it hurt everybody.
		There was an innocent time in America.
		I grew up in it in the 50s.
		And, God, you know, when the FBI would come out and announce the capture of some fugitive that they'd been after for a long time, man, you could take that to the bank.
		The American people would believe the FBI, boom, boom, boom, boom, just like that.
		Even though J. Edgar Hoover was there, we just, we believed every single word with good reason.
		And that's just not true anymore, is it?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, without question, there's a percentage of Americans that don't believe a single thing good about the FBI.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I'll give you that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that incident, no matter which side of the aisle you're on, your side or that man's side, it changed something in America, didn't it?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I think it did, and I think it certainly changed the way certain people look at the FBI.
		But what I also believe is that, you know, in my 30-plus years as an adult, 10 years in mental health and 20 years with the federal government in a law enforcement agency, there are certain people who hold attitudes that the facts don't matter.
		And there are certainly people in law enforcement who the facts don't matter.
		And you're never going to have a meeting of the minds.
		You're never going to have a meeting of the minds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Let's keep going.
		Was it the Rockies?
		You're on the air with Candace Lalong.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
		No.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Okay, turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you're on the air, sir.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		All right.
		It's a pleasure to speak to you.
		I'm a truck driver, and I live in Huntington Beach.
		My name is Sam.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Sam.
unidentified		I have a question.
unidentified		Is there a department such as the X-Files?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we already asked that one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, though you said you never saw it, you sort of did say there wasn't X-Files, or were you just joking?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I was joking.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I think, you know, if you're talking about investigation of UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		Not necessarily.
		But there are an awful lot of things.
		Well, for example, a lot of law enforcement agencies are known to use psychics.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Oh, not us.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		You know what I think about psychics?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I'll be happy to tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, go ahead.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		To quote Mark Kloss, father of kidnap, rape, murder, victim, Polycloth, psychics are the second wave of predators.
		This is what I have to say to psychics because I worked cases, the vast majority of cases that I worked as a profiler had to do with missing people and murdered people, women, and children.
		And psychics come out of it, and they all say the same thing.
		I see water, I see a fence.
		And this is what I have to say to them.
		Hand them a shovel and say, really, you know what the victim is?
		Here, show me where you are going to dig.
		I have never known, ever, in my 20 years as an agent of a psychic to be accurate.
		Never.
		If they were that good, and if there were so many of them that are that good, how come we have so many missing people in unsolved murders?
		And that is a statement as well as a question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, Let me turn it on you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many missing people do we have in unsolved murders?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Goodness, I annually?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I mean, well, okay, annually, I guess.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I would think annually, missing persons in unsolved murders, thousands.
unidentified		Thousands.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thousands of people who are gone without explanation, without conclusive investigation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just gone.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people go missing, and they're never even reported missing.
		I mean, there's 280 million people in this country.
		Now, when a child goes missing, that's noticed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but then an obvious follow-up question is, then really, how many unsolved crimes do we have versus solved by percentage?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I think, and I'm, don't hold me to this, but I think in terms of homicides, like when you've got a documented homicide, someone has been murdered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		And in terms of unsolved, the vast majority of them are solved.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I think well over 80% are solved.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if you factor in the missing and the unaccounted for.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, then I would imagine the number is astronomical.
		A lot of people go missing having nothing to do with having met a violent end by another person.
		People with Alzheimer's walk out of their homes and walk into the forest.
		People, mentally ill people, walk into people just go missing for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with being murdered or some people meet with a terribly violent, untimely demise that had nothing to do with another person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that could be the case with Chandra Levy.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		It could be, but I don't think it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand that.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Candice LeLong and RPL.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
unidentified		Where are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you.
		Please do that, everybody.
		Have it handy so you can turn it off.
		Where are you, and what's your first name?
unidentified		Victor, and I'm in Kennellwick, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, far away, Victor.
unidentified		I just wanted to say I'm really intrigued by the topic tonight.
unidentified		I'm also a Law and Order fan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great show.
		Dynamite show.
		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Anyway, do you have a question?
		Well, more of a statement?
		Kind of a statement, a question statement, I guess.
		Okay, go.
		For your guests.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
		We don't have a lot of time, sir.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		About mentally ill people.
		I happen to be mentally ill.
		I have manic depressive.
		And not all mentally ill people lack a conscience.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you.
unidentified		I have a problem with theft, a theft problem, but I do have a conscience about it.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And I just wanted to say that.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		No, you bring up a good point, and I certainly didn't mean to convey to anyone that I believe the mentally ill are without conscience.
		In fact, basically the only type of mental illness category of people that don't seem to have a conscience is a category that we would call the sociopath, the psychopath, or the antisocial personality.
		Certainly not people with your diagnosis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the fact that he has a conscience, that he feels badly about what he has done, implies clearly that he understands he is doing wrong when he does it.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Yes, otherwise he wouldn't feel the guilt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then if he were to be caught for stealing, it's prosecutable, right?
unidentified		Well, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Candace Leong and Arpell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hi, am I live?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You seem alive.
unidentified		Okay, that's a very good sense of humor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm calling you from the Midwest.
		Okay.
		I would just like to know, first of all, good morning, everyone.
		Secondly, I'll be short and brief.
		When the United States Justice Department, they definitely have a lot on their hands from immigration to law enforcement.
		But I was wondering if your guest is being less than forthcoming or simply does not know or want to acknowledge human intelligence, electronic intelligence, rumor intelligence, the operation of American armed forces on American soil working against Americans themselves.
		This is not something I'm making up.
		Give us instead of when the FBI goes in, oh, let's make it the DEA.
		When they make a seizure, this is intelligence that's gathered by recon units.
		And the United States Marine Corps generally, usually 80, 90% of the time, they go in, leave, they give the DEA the information that they need.
		The DEA lands, they confiscate, and then they make the headlines.
		But they didn't really do the intelligence work, as I was talking about, rumor intelligence, human intelligence, electronic intelligence, signals intelligence.
		In Waco, for instance, the intelligence that was given to the United States Justice Department ahead of time was that Mr. Karash could have been picking up jogging.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In town.
unidentified		In town.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But as she pointed out, they were serving a search warrant when all this began.
		But, you know, you've got a good point.
		Hindsight is always 20-20.
		But again, Candace, we don't have a lot of time here, but there is a man who believes that U.S. military forces are being used in conjunction with domestic federal agencies like the FBI, for example.
		You want to comment on that?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, I believe that it was at least two presidential administrations ago where I think it had to do with the drug war, I could be wrong on this, and President Bush, where we got involved and started using the U.S. military to help us on the war on drugs.
		Regarding their involvement on anything not drug-related, I couldn't comment on that.
		I did work drugs for three years.
		I worked with the DEA.
		I never work with the military.
		I'm reading a book right now called Killing Pablo about the hunt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Escobario.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your position on the drug war, Candace?
		If you were the drug czar, you've looked at all this long enough to come to some sort of conclusion.
		A lot of very conservative people are beginning to say that's it, enough.
		We've got to change our drug laws in America.
		Are you one of those?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Nope.
		And I have a very strong statement about that in my book.
		However, my feelings about, I used to be of the feeling, come on, let's start locking up the users again.
		Well, there aren't enough prisons.
		We'd have to build so many more.
		I mean, we have to stop the demand for drugs.
		And I think probably the only way to do that is in increased education and starting it in kindergarten.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About 60% of the incarcerated now, I understand, which top a million easily, going toward 2 million, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's all drug-related, right?
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And something like over 50% of the prisoners brought into Cook County Jail in Chicago were tested.
		And I think it was something like 64% of them committed the crime when they were either high on drugs or alcohol.
		Don't ask me if I think we should legalize, well, I do not think we should legalize drugs.
		I do not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No change in our drug laws at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tougher, if anything.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know about that.
		I have a problem sending a ghetto mom who's trying to feed two kids to prison for 10 years because she was running drugs so she could buy groceries for her kids.
		We need to do something with her, but we definitely need to get her bosses in jail.
		Very tough to do.
		I'll tell you straight up, I don't have an answer to the drug problem, but I do not want to see drugs legalized in this country.
		I think it's a huge mistake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If it were up to you, would you mobilize the military domestically to attack the problem harder?
unidentified		Hmm.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I've never been asked that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now you have.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's imagine I have a crown on my head.
		Hmm, I'm liking it.
		Yeah, I think I would.
unidentified		You would.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		And I'll tell you why, Art.
		I think drugs and guns are the worst thing to ever happen in this country.
		I was raised, like you, in the 50s, drugs didn't exist.
unidentified		Look at us now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I, yeah, that's right.
		In the 50s, Roy, they didn't.
		They began to exist in large quantities.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		In the late 60s, early 70s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and look at us now.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		You know, I mean, you know, our children face things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, Candace, the show is coming to an end because I've got a horrible back, and I'm doing four hours.
		I want to have you back, and I want to do this again because we have just begun into an area that needs a lot more explanation.
		Okay.
		Can we do this again?
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good luck with your book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to do very well.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
candice delong ▲ ● ▼		I'm very pleased so far.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, Candace.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.

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