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Aug. 28, 2001 - Art Bell

01:48:25

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Candice DeLong - FBI Investigator

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	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	The night featuring Coast to Coast AM from August 28th, 2001.
	From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I wish you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon.
	...is only going to run this week.
	That's it.
	This week.
	It will begin, has begun, and will end this week.
	As you know, I have written a number of books.
	I'm not big on autographs.
	I'll tell you something about autographs.
	This is kind of interesting, and it's a trend that I've noticed in the last, oh, I don't know, couple of years.
	There are, you cannot imagine, you can't imagine how many professional autograph seekers are out there.
	Now, these are people who really don't listen to your program at all, or don't really know you at all.
	Their entire life is seeking autographs from celebrities.
	And I presume they collect them in hopes that when you kick the bucket, you know, your autograph becomes worth money.
	That's all I can presume.
	You get these sort of... It's like getting a letter back from the President.
	You know, the President is very concerned with regard to the information in your letter, and the President will Contact the appropriate authorities and follow up on it.
	You know, you get a sort of a rubber stamp letter.
	Hi, I've really always enjoyed your work.
	And I think you're fabulous.
	And would you please send me an autograph, a signed picture, autograph, whatever.
	And I'm getting zillions of these.
	And I roundly ignore them.
	I totally ignore them.
	I never do them.
	There's something to me kind of macabre about that.
	People who would simply go to everybody who's in the public spotlight one way or the other.
	Probably good, bad, or indifferent.
	You know, you could be a mass murderer.
	Hey, can I get your autograph?
	And it's just, you know, it's just for the value of the signature after you're gone.
	Bleh.
	What a strange show.
	Anyway, as you know, I've written a number of books that really, really reflect what I think in more ways than one.
	The Art of Talk is my baby.
	The Art of Talk is an autobiography.
	It's all about my life.
	And in it, I told a whole bunch of stuff that I shouldn't have told,
	and to this day get grief for.
	You know, I just opened up and told it the way it is.
	So, The Art of Talk.
	The quickening, which is every bit, you know, after I am gone and the autograph people go to collect my money, or their money, if there is any to be made, $9.95, whatever, this book will still be operative because the quickening will still be going on.
	Maybe.
	Obviously events are racing toward some sort of culmination.
	The quickening Was a definitive work on that, I think.
	At least mine, that's for sure.
	And the source, which I co-authored with Brad Steiger, about all things paranormal, having one source.
	Again, every bit as good today as it was the day it was written.
	All three of these books, autographed, personally autographed by me, are available till the end of the week.
	And that's it.
	This is like a one-time year-and-a-half special.
	I don't think we've done this in a year-and-a-half.
	So, all three books autographed for $59.95 plus $7.95 shipping and handling.
	Or, by the way, you can get any one of the single books if you wish, but this is a pretty good bargain.
	$59.95, all three autographed, plus $7.95 shipping and handling.
	You can call right now, tonight, this minute, or during the day.
	If you're unable to get through tonight, you can call during the day, but you ought to give it a try right now.
	End of the week is the end of the offer.
	Stay right where you are.
	There's so much that I should be covering that I've been saving while all of this controversy has been going on.
	I mean, there really is a lot going on there, and I think this could probably be classified as part of the quickening, in my opinion, and then we'll open the lines here.
	Let me read you about three separate or in part three separate emails that I've received that I think are relevant.
	Hey Art, have you noticed the stories about confused animals?
	Fox ran apiece on a moose in a pool and also about a cub bear in a kiddie pool.
	One could not miss the strange behavior of the sharks off Florida and Makes you wonder if something big might be brewing.
	Makes me glad I live in Michigan, and not California, if you get my drift.
	You should call your guest who predicts earthquakes, see what he thinks.
	Or this.
	Hey Art, sharks are nibbling on swimmers in the Atlantic waters.
	During a recent trip to Sweden, I learned that the scourges of my ancestors have returned to plague rule Swedes.
	The bear, the cougar, the moose, the wolf, And here in Texas, home of gigantic cockroaches, referred to euphemistically as water bugs, the bugs are disappearing.
	The habitat of lizards has spread north.
	We now have a plague of these little guys.
	The newts, no bigger than an inch and a half, are eating cockroaches larger than they are.
	The lizards are like chameleons.
	They take on the coloration of whatever they're crawling on.
	My local ones don't seem to be able to match my yellow porch very well, but do a masterly job of imitating brickwork.
	In Florida, from the Orlando Sentinel, the headline is, Dying Birds Rain on Eola.
	Birds fell dead from the trees and sky around downtown Orlando's Lake Eola Park on Friday.
	Stunning residents, Out for an evening stroll and leaving officials struggling to find an explanation.
	Nearly 100 birds began simply dropping from trees or even falling in mid-flight about 6 p.m.
	in the popular park on the east side of downtown.
	Most were rackles and pigeons, but at least one duck was found dead, egrets and A lake in all the same as Black Swans did not appear to be affected, but folks, birds just flat fell out of the sky.
	Fell out of their perches on trees.
	Like that!
	Now, what do you suppose all of this means?
	There can be no question.
	The number of shark attacks that have been going on, legs lost, bites, and all the rest of it, reported nearly on a daily basis now.
	Well, I'll tell you, it is part of the quickening.
	Be sure of it.
	Do the crop circles fit into all of this?
	Probably.
	Does it all mean something and mean something is coming pretty soon now?
	Probably.
	That'd be my take anyway.
	I wonder what yours is and so that's what I, as I said, we're going to open lines and just see what's on your mind out there.
	Shall we do that?
	First time caller line, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
	Morning.
	Hi there.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Okay.
	Thank you.
	Oh, off, off.
	There.
	There.
	That, all the way.
	Yes, good.
	Uh, no, turn it off.
	Okay.
	That's good.
	All right.
	Now, you're on the air.
	What is your name?
	My name is, uh, Billy.
	Billy.
	And where are you, Billy?
	I am in, uh, Ashland, Kentucky.
	Ashland.
	All right.
	Welcome.
	Um, I got a question, R. Um, I was on the, um, Yes.
	I was looking at the crop circles and I noticed at the bottom of the crop circle there appears
	to be a humanoid shape at the bottom of it.
	Are you referring now to the Chilbolton crop circle that is said to be perhaps an answer
	to the Arecibo signal?
	Yeah.
	I was looking at...
	Yeah, that's right, a fat-headed being at the bottom, right?
	Right.
	Okay, yes.
	And I was wondering, have they perhaps came close to maybe interpreting what any of those symbols are inside the fat head?
	Oh, inside the head?
	Yeah, I mean, it seems like there's some symbols or something, you know, inside the head.
	You may be looking at it too hard.
	All I see is a head, you know, a big head, albeit, but a head.
	Okay, and me and my wife... Either you do that or clean your computer screen.
	That could be a good possibility there.
	How far was the face from that crop circle itself?
	Okay, a way for you to gauge that yourself is to go to the photograph on my website of the two glyphs, the face and the answer, and look at them in relationship to the Do you see the satellite dish?
	Yes.
	Okay, that satellite dish is 80 feet in diameter.
	Wow.
	So if you just sort of use a little anything and measure the 80 feet and go on out, it
	will help you.
	Okay, I appreciate it.
	Me and my wife, we just really feel that this is going to be the beginning of something
	tremendous.
	A lot of people here in the area feel that way, too.
	Then you and your wife and myself are in total agreement.
	Thank you, my friend.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	Wild Card Line, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art.
	This is Raymond.
	I'm calling from Michigan.
	Yes, sir.
	My niece and nephew, they're five years old.
	They're twins.
	And they're in preschool.
	And they came home and told their mom, my sister, their mom one day something that I thought was pretty cool that I didn't know they were doing.
	They're teaching them in preschool about Bigfoot.
	What?
	Yeah, how about that?
	No.
	I don't think they're teaching high schoolers.
	No.
	Are you sure?
	Yeah, he said they're learning about Bigfoot, and he explained to my sister exactly what it was, and he said he loved it.
	What is a school teaching about Bigfoot?
	I mean, what are they saying?
	Do you know?
	Well, I don't know.
	No, I don't live that near them, so I talk to them on the phone every once in a while, but he just said he came home.
	They were teaching them in school.
	They told them about Bigfoot.
	Bigfoot is your friend?
	Well, he said that what he got out of it was, you know, he ended up saying to my sister that, you know, he really
	thought Bigfoot was neat and everything.
	Really neat, huh?
	And I went and ran to them the movie Harry and the Hendersons thinking it was...
	Oh, and Harry and the Hendersons. Now, I'm not sure that that represents Bigfoot as we understand Bigfoot.
	No, no, no, it doesn't. But I didn't want him to be afraid of it.
	And how old are these two?
	Five years old.
	Five years old.
	And what are their names?
	Jake and Katie.
	Jake and Katie.
	So, little Jake and Katie, in case you should be awake at this hour, here's my version of Bigfoot.
	Now, if they were to include that reputed to be real Bigfoot sound in the curriculum, how do you think Jake and Katie
	would handle it?
	I think the bad dreams would begin immediately.
	Thank you very much.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning, evening, whatever.
	Art?
	Yes.
	Yeah, I can't believe I got through.
	This is Kurt, I'm calling from Youngstown.
	Yes, Kurt.
	I'm a time zone traveler from Phoenix, though.
	You're a time zone traveler from Phoenix?
	Right.
	You know what that is?
	Yeah, that's when you go from one time zone to another.
	Right.
	Truck driver.
	Okay.
	Oh, is that what that means?
	Alright.
	Yeah, I just thought of that one night.
	I have a lot of time to think when I'm driving to listen to you, but anyways, I've always wanted to give you a theory of UFOs.
	Okay.
	As far as like... You mean a theory of what they are, you mean?
	Yeah, of what's going on.
	Okay.
	As far as like, you know how we think that we come from Mars, there's evidence of beings coming from Mars, And I think possibly it's the UFOs are actually repopulating the next Earth.
	Possibly, you never know.
	What do you mean the next Earth?
	Yeah, if it was destroyed before, Mars was destroyed before, we have this theory that it's going to happen again, so they're repopulating the Earth, the next Earth.
	Now think about this, maybe the cycle of destruction It visits itself on Earth and Mars every now and then.
	Every few million years or something like that.
	So maybe the truth is, every few million years, the population has got to move back and forth, back and forth.
	Earth to Mars, Mars to Earth, Earth to Mars.
	Right.
	It has to go to a new one, but you never know.
	It could be Venus, the next one.
	Venus is not so friendly for human beings.
	Well, according to the, uh, the, uh, reversal, speech reversals, the, uh, the guys from NASA were coming up with, uh, Americans and Venus on Mars.
	Americans and buildings on Venus or whatever.
	Well, maybe, but, uh, would you get on a rocket bound for Venus as your new home because you've got a one-way ticket, right?
	Based on speech reversals?
	Hmm?
	If the guy from NASA said, listen, uh, Earth is You know, in its last minutes here.
	And you're going to get to be one of the ones to make it to the new home.
	Venus.
	And we've got these speech reversals that seem to justify our sending you there.
	Hop on board.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Going once.
	Going twice.
	Gone.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	This is the Art Bell Program, Coast to Coast AM.
	It would appear so.
	I would hope so.
	Yeah, I was going to just call and respond to an issue about the sharks.
	Oh yes, the sharks.
	And for that matter, a lot of the other animals behaving all of a sudden.
	Absolutely.
	In kind of a strange way, wouldn't you say?
	Absolutely.
	Have you ever seen this many shark stories?
	Ever?
	No, I have not.
	Right.
	The strange thing, what I was calling to talk about, is that this is not the first time in history that this has happened.
	This has happened in several documented cases.
	It probably happened before the big meteor hit the Yucatan, for example, but, you know, we don't remember.
	But, you know, one of the instances, I mean, you know, there was a film a few years ago called The Ghost in the Darkness that came out, which was just a film, of course, based on the true incident of these lions in a place called Sabo in Africa.
	Basically, just started randomly killing a hundred people, two of them, for no particular reason at all.
	And the fact of the matter is, lions don't normally do such a thing.
	And they, I believe, by the end of it, killed about a hundred people.
	The lions killed... You know what?
	I think I remember that story, sir.
	Yeah, I do recall that story.
	In fact, they went on a real human-eaten rampage.
	Listen, can you hold on?
	Absolutely.
	Stay right there.
	We'll be right back.
	From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM in Open Lines.
	I'm Art Bell.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	tonight an encore presentation of coast to coast am from august 28 2001
	oh oh
	i get hit he talked and talked and i heard him say
	That she had the longest blackest hair, the prettiest green eyes they made wear, and the reasoning of his latest flame.
	Though I smiled, the tears inside were a-burning, but I wished him luck and that he said it'd be fine.
	The seedlark fell somewhat in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 28, 2001.
	This song absolutely haunts me.
	And I don't know why.
	But it haunts me.
	In a very pleasant kind of way.
	So different than anything else he did.
	Good morning, everybody.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	Hello, everybody.
	From the desert of the sea, this is Maggie.
	Do you want to take a ride?
	You gotta admit, that's pretty cute.
	At the top of the hour we're going to be talking with an FBI agent, a woman.
	I call her Clarice.
	She's actually Candace DeLong, but, you know, when you think of a woman FBI agent, you know, that's really stereotyping, too.
	I mean, you have to think of Clarice, right?
	And Hannibal?
	You just have to.
	So we'll ask her about that.
	She worked on cases like that, too.
	So it's going to be kind of interesting.
	Have you ever seen a time like this?
	When things are so strange?
	They just seem to get stranger and faster and stranger and faster and West Nile virus now is spreading as well.
	We're talking about the animals, but West Nile virus is headed my way.
	it uh... it moves south and it's moving west and i would presume that before too
	long despite uh... the authorities best efforts to eradicate the mosquito something i i don't think
	they're going to do
	it's moving and it's moving toward
	and plus in general
	and you're back on the air against hello hush
	uh... first off i just wanted to say quickly that that in these times where we have
	practically no coverage of the paranormal at all anywhere and specifically about
	subject that have been happening over the past week which i won't get into
	which everyone knows i appreciate your show
	i thank you very much uh... it's a pleasure to be able to cover stuff that
	aren't you know i haven't mentioned uh... the whole conda thing and i'm not
	really going to all the credit estimates guess about it but uh...
	it dot e i have had it
	I mean, I just, you know, anytime you turn on the news now, that's all you can get.
	And I guess I wonder why.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	In the bigger scheme of things, it seems so, so insignificant.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	In comparison with the space in a field in England, I really don't care about condit.
	Sorry.
	Yeah, maybe we're not plugged in the right way or something, sir, but I absolutely agree with you.
	Yeah.
	I guess mainly what I was going to call about tonight is you were talking about the recent rash of shark attacks.
	Oh, yes.
	And basically I was just going to bring up the idea That's right.
	This may not be new news to anyone, but this is strange.
	This has happened several times in history.
	Never has there been more sharks, of course, but yes, there's also been other attacks recently.
	There was a bear in Florida, I believe came into a suburb and attacked a woman.
	Correctamundo.
	There was a, I believe I even heard of several otters killing someone about several weeks
	ago, and I thought that was absurd when it gets to the point where otters are killing
	Lots of bear coming down, jumping in pools, swimming.
	I mean, there's all kinds of strange animal behavior going on right now, and it probably means something if we were smart enough to listen.
	And, I mean, you know, a few years ago there was a film released called The Ghost in the Darkness, which many people may remember.
	That was a true story, which is basically about two lions in an area of Africa called Sapo.
	About a hundred years or so ago, and the British were trying to build a bridge, basically, across this area of land.
	I saw the movie.
	Yeah, just in case anyone hasn't.
	And these things just decided to turn on humans, and they picked them off one by one by one by one.
	It was horrible.
	Death count was just tremendous.
	I saw the movie, sir, and I appreciate the call.
	You're absolutely right.
	For anybody out there willing to listen, the behavior of animals is odd right now.
	Can you deny that?
	I don't think so.
	Now, speaking of animals, I have got a really, really, really, really, really cute picture on my webcam right now that I got tonight.
	First time ever, I got both of my pinky cats, meaning I've got a picture of myself holding Comet He's the one on the left with his ears back, and Yeti, our darling new one, on the right.
	And they're together.
	And taking a picture like that with those two is a flesh-threatening experience.
	But I did get them to calm down and pay attention.
	Now, Comet, you know, if you get a camera, any kind of thing that looks like a camera within 20 feet of Comet, He'll be gone like, you know, the speeding bullet after Superman.
	I mean, he's just gone.
	He knows a camera.
	But he doesn't know my webcams.
	Because they're always there, and he hasn't figured out their cameras yet.
	So, it's the only way I've ever, in recent years, been able to get a picture of Comet.
	He's the one on the left.
	Totally feral.
	The one on the right is our new little monster named Yeti.
	He's something else.
	But I got them both in one photograph.
	It's on my webcam right now.
	If you go to my website at artbell.com, click on Program.
	What does it say?
	It says there, Program and then Art Bell Studio Cam, you'll see the picture I took at 949 Pacific Time, just a few minutes ago, actually.
	On the international line, you are on the air.
	Where are you, pray tell?
	Well, let me put it to you this way.
	program.
	What I wanted to talk to you about was Clairvoyance, psychics.
	How much faith do you put in them?
	Let me put it to you this way.
	It's my view after years of interviewing some of the best of them that some of them absolutely
	are real and have a talent that whether you like it or not is real and they can really
	do what they say they do.
	And then there are some charlatans.
	On the one hand, I absolutely believe the phenomenon is a real phenomenon.
	No question about it.
	On the other hand, I know there are charlatans out there, too.
	Well, how does one then decide who's a charlatan and who's for real?
	How do you do that, do you know?
	Well, you have to be intuitive.
	I don't know.
	I really don't want to say anything bad about anybody, but when I see something on TV and it says, Want to know about your boyfriend?
	Want to know if your girlfriend's going out on you?
	Call 1-900, you know, whatever.
	I tend to sort of blow that off in my mind, probably like a lot of people, right?
	But on the other hand, when I run into somebody like Daniel Brinkley, who's scared the you-know-what out of me several times with his ability, I know I've met the real McCoy, so... This fellow, we've got him on TV down here now, John Edwards.
	Oh yes, oh yes, of course.
	John started off on the Science Fiction Channel and now he's in syndication and apparently has reached all the way to Australia.
	John Edwards says he talks to the other side.
	You know, I don't know.
	I think there is another side.
	I think I'm pretty well convinced of that.
	I doubt that our energy ceases, so I really tend to believe, you know, there is a place where we go, or a time, or maybe it's no time and no place, but a place where our consciousness resides after physical death.
	I'm more cautious about those who claim to speak to that side.
	But maybe.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, good evening, Art.
	It's John in Scottsdale.
	I'm sitting out in my backyard in my trampoline looking at a football moon arcing its way to the western goal post horizon.
	Oh, I bet it's a beautiful night, too.
	People have no idea how nice the desert is at night.
	Now, during the day here, it's been going about 111.
	I bet it's more than Phoenix.
	Yeah, a bit hellish, yeah.
	But, once the sun goes down, you have this wonderful dry air.
	Here, for example, at the moment, it's 88 degrees.
	Correct.
	And it is just beautiful out there.
	Yeah, it's very nice.
	What I wanted to discuss with you tonight was last night's program.
	Yes.
	I got onto the website before the show began, and I was waiting with eagerness to hear about some new information with the crop glyphs and all that, because my son and I have been watching it pretty closely.
	In fact, he was doing some diddling with the artwork and produced some interesting... Wait a minute, I'm getting a psychic vision.
	There's a plane going over your house.
	Yes, strobe lights ablaze and heading towards Scottsdale Airport over here.
	And it's a female pilot, about 34.
	Not bad.
	And she's good looking, I can see that.
	Anyway, back to the crop circles.
	Sure.
	We were looking at the images that were lined up for the night's program, and it looked like there was quite a bit of factual material to absorb, and we were rubbing our hands and waiting for the show to start.
	And then he started getting into it with Seth, and I have to say, I don't want to complain, because this is the best damn show ever.
	Oh, you can bitch all you want.
	Well, I'm going to, because the man really doesn't know anything about crop circles.
	To be fair, though, he doesn't pretend to.
	Okay, but it just seemed like he was getting in the way of what might have been intended as some good information.
	Oh, don't worry.
	Radio is a long-form thing.
	In all likelihood, I'll have Richard on again tomorrow night.
	I'll tell you a little secret.
	Yeah?
	Richard has talked to the Chilbolton Observatory.
	Oh, yeah?
	And so he's going to have a bit of news for us.
	Ah, good.
	That'll be nice.
	Yes.
	We're sort of letting this story continue to develop.
	And, you know, we'll go over all of that stuff.
	Don't worry about it.
	Don't worry.
	All right, my friend.
	Your steak awaits you.
	Take care.
	Bye-bye.
	Bye.
	Used to the Rockies?
	You're on the air, top of the morning.
	Hello.
	Good evening, Art.
	Good evening, sir.
	Where are you?
	I am in Mansfield, Ohio.
	This is Doug.
	Okay, Doug.
	Yes, I am so glad I got through, and I think you will be, too.
	last December 20.
	She doesn't give you time for questions As she locks up your all in hers
	And you follow to your sense of which direction Completely disappears
	By the blue tile walls, there's a market to go For the hints and does she leads you to
	These days, friends, I feel my life just like a river running through the air of the cabin
	I feel my life just like a river running through the air of the cabin
	Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired August 28, 2001.
	In a few moments, we're going to enter the world of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
	We've got a gal who was there for a whole career, Candace DeLong.
	Of course, you're going to think, as I have, of Clarice Starling.
	How can you not?
	There aren't that many women.
	Well, I guess there are a lot of women down there.
	I will ask.
	i don't know how many women are in the fbi but she was and she's got a lot of good stories to tell
	tonight very respectful of the saxophone
	For me, it's like a cat purring.
	You know, it calms me down.
	Anyway, good morning, everybody.
	I'm Art Bell, and if you'll stay right where you are, we're going into a whole different world in just a moment.
	The book is Special Agent.
	My life on the front lines as a woman in the FBI for 20 years.
	Candace DeLong was on the front lines of some of the FBI's most memorable and gripping cases.
	Some have called her a real-life Clarice Starling and a female Donnie Brasco.
	She's tailed terrorists, gone undercover as a gangster's mall, was one of the agents chosen to carry out the manhunt for the Unabomber in Montana.
	That must have been really frightening.
	For the first time, she reveals the dangers and rewards of her career as a field profiler In the FBI, a field profiler.
	I guess we're going to find out in a moment what that is.
	Here is Candace Long.
	Candace, welcome to the program.
	Thank you.
	Hi, it's great to have you.
	I understand you just got off an airplane, huh?
	Yeah, just a few minutes ago.
	Where were you coming from?
	I was flying from Northern California to Southern.
	And you're in Southern California now?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Why, let's see, 20 years.
	Let's see, you would have been then one of the first women FBI agents, period, wouldn't you?
	Well, the first women came in in 1972.
	They admitted just one, and she was admitted a few hours after Hoover's soul ascended into heaven, assuming that's where it went.
	And then they just, it was just a trickle of women, one and then two and then three.
	And when I came in in 1980, There was only about four percent of the workforce was female, and that's where I was.
	Do you think J. Edgar Hoover went to heaven?
	I have no evidence that he didn't.
	Why did you even want to go into the FBI?
	Well, I had been a psychiatric nurse for almost a decade, and I had spent most of my nursing career in maximum security, and I had eventually become head nurse of a major metropolitan psychiatric hospital at one.
	You know, the psych nursing is a pretty draining, very stressful job.
	And in 1978, I met an FBI agent, and we became friends.
	And he introduced me to his partner one day, and his partner was a little teeny gal.
	About 5 feet tall, 100 pounds, hair down to her waist, really cool suede boots.
	Were you jealous?
	Oh, damn, yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	That's right.
	You can say which one.
	If you say anything too awful, I'll bleep it out.
	No problem.
	Oh, yeah.
	And I thought, what the heck?
	I didn't know women.
	I didn't know the FBI.
	Of course I knew about federal agents.
	Elliot Ness was kind of a mythical figure in my family.
	My dad was an informant for him during the Great Depression.
	So I kind of grew up with him.
	He saw her all about his symptoms so that when he saw her on such and such a date, she would be ready to order all the tests that he would need and she would be able to do everything in one day and he would not have to stay overnight.
	And of course, he was always counting his pennies, and I mean literally.
	This man lived on about $300 a year.
	Yeah, I saw his cabin, if you can call it that.
	Yeah.
	and so in this letter he said uh...
	if you can't be he wrote the letter in nineteen ninety any said i've been under
	to wrap uh...
	for about uh... fourteen years well if you could track fourteen years nineteen ninety two
	that nineteen seventy eight when he placed the first bomb in the chicago
	And he said in that letter, I've been under extreme stress since 19... I've been under extreme stress since 19... I've been under extreme stress the last five years.
	Five years prior to 1992 was when he was seen placing a bomb down behind a computer store in Utah.
	And was seen by someone, and the composite sketch of the Unabomber became famous to America.
	Did you read his manifesto?
	Yeah, when I needed to get to sleep, yeah.
	I couldn't get through it.
	To me, it was interesting, parts of it, but it read like a doctoral dissertation.
	I just decided to wait until the movie came out.
	Really?
	Portions of it I thought actually were brilliant.
	He was actually a brilliant man in a lot of ways, wasn't he?
	No doubt about it.
	Misguided for sure, though.
	Misguided for sure, but then finally the judge signs and you and I suppose a whole bunch of others sort of assault that little cabin, right?
	Not exactly.
	What I left out here was after three weeks of my partners and I running around much, and I would use the word guarded, stiff, Much like Congressman Condit was last Thursday night with Connie Chung.
	She had to get that work in.
	I don't know, it's the first time anybody's mentioned it on my show.
	You know, certainly you knew you were sitting across the table from a smart person, but oh, how I wanted to reach over and go, not feeling so smart now, are you?
	You didn't do that, huh?
	Despite what Hollywood would have you think about cops and agents slapping people around and using... Wait a minute, you don't slap people around?
	Not in my professional life, no.
	Well, that's surprising.
	One of my favorite shows on TV is Law & Order.
	I think it's a wonderful program.
	They occasionally slap people around.
	There are no federal agents on that show.
	Well, that's true.
	So federal agents don't do that.
	I was an FBI agent for 20 years.
	I worked with DEA agents.
	I worked with, periodically, ATF agents.
	No, you know what?
	That's Hollywood nonsense.
	Is it?
	I never saw anyone do anything.
	Well, first of all, in New York City, homicide, you don't think a suspect could get fucked around?
	Oh, no, I think they could.
	I work with Chicago Homicide Cops, too.
	I think that probably does happen.
	I never witnessed it, because you do know that The FBI's jurisdiction for investigating police brutality.
	It's a federal violation, a civil rights violation.
	So most cops would be rather, well, not too very smart to slap a suspect around in front of an FBI agent.
	Oh, absolutely.
	In front of an FBI agent.
	When you and your partner, whether, not the Kaczynski case, but in a case where you'd be interrogating someone, Do you play, have you played good cop, bad cop?
	Is that a really common thing to do?
	If I'm having a moody day, I can play both roles by myself.
	That PMS thing can really work in your favor if you're a female agent.
	I wouldn't have said it.
	I'll say it.
	I'm proud of it.
	Just a really nice one moment and ripping into them the next moment.
	That actually does It can, with an inexperienced or what we call criminally unsophisticated suspect.
	at any single moment or you and your partner the good cop bad cop thing
	really works it can with an inexperienced or
	what we call criminally unsophisticated suspect yeah it can it can the FBI though more times than
	not is dealing with more sophisticated folks aren't they
	Oftentimes.
	Of course, we also deal with what I call raggedy-ass bank robbers all the way up to extremely brilliant terrorists.
	Just before the break here, I have one quick question for you.
	What year would you expect, Candace, that we would see the first female FBI director?
	I think probably within a decade.
	Within a decade?
	So by, say, 2012?
	Yes.
	If we're all still here.
	I don't know that she'll come up through the ranks as Louis Freeh did, but yeah, I can imagine within a decade we'll have a female director.
	Things really have changed.
	Hold it right there.
	We'll be right back.
	Top of the hour, I'm Art Bell.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 28, 2001.
	Coast to Coast is a movie about a man who's lost his way.
	He's lost his way.
	She's in here somewhere back in the long ago Where he can still believe there's a place in her life
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August
	28th, 2001 Candace DeLong, 20 years in the FBI, as a special agent, is
	my guest tonight And I just went searching on Amazon.com and found her book
	looking for a photograph of her And they've got the book there for a special agent.
	My Life on the Front Lines as a Woman in the FBI.
	And they slashed the price.
	Huh.
	That's what Amazon.com does.
	I don't know how they can do that, but they do.
	It's a really good book.
	And I went searching for a picture.
	It's not on the front of the book, but guess what?
	It's on the back.
	It certainly is.
	I just had my wife get the book, and it's on the back, and I'll tell you all about it in a moment.
	20 years in the FBI.
	Well, there's no picture of Candace on the front of the book, you know?
	But on the back of the book, there's a great big full back cover picture of Candace DeLong, and boy, those are big guns!
	I mean, that's a big gun!
	You're really cute.
	You're really cute, Candace.
	Oh, cute!
	What kind of gun is that?
	My God!
	That's a Glock.
	It's a Glock, yeah.
	I thought it might be a Glock.
	That's my... That look, however, that's what we call it.
	My son calls it the DDS, the long depth spear.
	When he was young, I could control him in a restaurant just glaring at him like that.
	Actually, it still works.
	He comes in very happy in my personal life, too.
	It does look like a death stare.
	You're right.
	And I'm sure they took this picture.
	That wasn't a standard FBI picture, of course.
	That was done for the book, right?
	Yeah.
	He was already retired.
	I see.
	Boy, they've picked a big lock, didn't they?
	Yeah.
	Well, I'm a little gal.
	How tall are you?
	5'5".
	5'5".
	All right.
	Such a good-looking woman.
	Twenty years.
	Thank you.
	Did they ever use you as bait?
	I use myself as bait.
	There's a couple of stories in the book.
	One of my favorite stories is in a chapter called Girl Talk, where from start to finish, started at noon, was over at 8 p.m., and I convinced this I suspect that I was after, that I was the head of a call girl operation called the Candy Store, no less.
	Actually, it's one of my favorite stories.
	It's great fun.
	Well, tell me about it.
	Well, someone... Trust me, they'll still buy your book.
	Don't worry.
	I was driving in my bureau car one day, and over the bureau radio, not the good time radio, which is AM FM, but the bureau radio, someone was talking very, very dirty.
	Over the Bureau Radio?
	Over the Bureau Radio.
	And believe me, you can't even swear over the Bureau Radio, let alone talk very, very dirty.
	And I thought, oh my God, somebody's gotten a hold of one of our radios.
	It's either in a Bureau car or stole a handy talkie, which is the same frequency.
	And as it turns out, when I got back to the office, that's when I found out that somebody had broken into a car.
	And of course, our cars are unmarked.
	No one was responding to them.
	None of the agents were saying, Nobody indicated to the offender, we'll call him, that he actually was talking dirty over the FCC airways on an FBI radio.
	So I thought, well, gee, we've got to get our radio back.
	Also, he had stolen $3,000 of camera equipment from the same trunk of the car that he stole this from.
	So I went to the bosses and I said, look, all he's asking for is sex.
	Let's give it to him.
	You know, and they looked at me like I was crazy.
	And I said, look, I think we're dealing with a kid here, meaning a teenager.
	All he wants is sex. He wants this, he wants that.
	Let me go on the air and convince him that I'm a madam and that I communicate with my girls through handy talkies
	and I send them to their assignments.
	On the FBI frequency?
	Well, on the same frequency he was using, of course.
	Was he aware that he was on an FBI frequency?
	Absolutely not!
	I see.
	Which also told me that we were dealing with someone pretty young and under-investigated.
	Right.
	Most retired agents and cops, I mean, they put people in jail over the years.
	You know, sometimes they hold a grudge.
	Sure.
	I'm not aware of any FBI agent that's ever been Injured or killed by someone they put in jail after, many years later, certainly FBI agents and family members have been threatened and have had to be relocated.
	But it's pretty hard to find me.
	I'm very cautious.
	It just would be difficult.
	I just use a lot of common sense.
	I'm really irritable.
	Did you ever run into a bad FBI agent?
	And when I say bad, I mean bad cop.
	I was going to say someone I didn't like?
	Uh, let's see.
	No.
	Um, in terms of like, like Robert Hanson.
	Yeah.
	No, no.
	I'm, I'm happy to say they are few and far between.
	Who investigates the FBI, Candace?
	Uh, Department of Justice.
	How frequently does that occur?
	Pretty often.
	Does it really?
	Yeah.
	You know, I mean, being in the FBI, you know, I call it, uh, it's a Catholic school again.
	There are a lot of rules and regulations.
	I even have a chapter in my book where I ran afoul of bureau regulations.
	You're not allowed to have a second job.
	When I needed money, I periodically would moonlight as a nurse.
	I'm a registered nurse.
	Don't they pay FBI agents enough?
	Well, they didn't.
	I was a single parent.
	Living in a major city was pretty tough making ends meet.
	I would periodically work as a nurse.
	And that's a no-no.
	It's not against the law.
	It's against Bureau rules.
	And so anytime an agent breaks a rule, whether it's minor or major, and not to mention breaking the law, then they are investigated.
	Now, we used to investigate ourselves, but now we're investigated by the Department of Justice.
	You think that's a good idea?
	Yes.
	I think some of our rules and regulations are a little ridiculous, and I talk about that in my book.
	Not just because I got caught moonlighting as a nurse.
	Hey, I broke the rules and I paid the price for it.
	But there are agents in the Bureau who are not making cases and not whipping up enough adrenaline for themselves, and so they sit around and they file ridiculous complaints on other agents, and they all have to be investigated.
	And this costs taxpayers time and money.
	Some of them I think are ridiculous, and probably 60% I'm told are bogus.
	One of my closest friends in life has been a man named John Pyre, Candace.
	He spent 20 plus in the FBI and retired.
	And, you know, we had a lot of conversations.
	John and I talked a lot, and he complained endlessly about the politics in the FBI.
	Yes.
	True?
	Yes.
	Yes, like any other organization and the bureaucracy.
	You know, people interviewing me have probably had 200 plus interviews since April 19th when the book first came out in Great Britain and then here in America May 1st.
	Aren't you tired of it all?
	Well, no.
	But one of the most frequently asked questions is, Candace, you have such a great career.
	There's a lot of good stories in this book.
	You could have gone seven more years.
	Why did you leave?
	Don't you miss it?
	Well, you just asked me a question.
	There's my answer.
	The politics and the bureaucracy.
	Great career.
	Hey, love to stay.
	Gotta go.
	And do you feel free now?
	Free at last!
	Free at last!
	Does the politics get so bad that it prevents, at times, competent law enforcement?
	It can.
	I think it's not so much the politics.
	Most FBI agents would say this to you.
	Maybe not while they're on board, but give them a light beer and they will.
	And it is this.
	It's not so much the politics.
	Yes, the politics exist.
	The biggest problem with the FBI is FBI management.
	Competent agents learn how to navigate the management waves.
	I talk about in my book that sometimes the best way to get something done is to go ahead
	and do it and better to ask forgiveness than permission.
	When you wrote the book, I know when I sat down to write my autobiography, before I even
	wrote the first word, I spent a lot of time thinking about, well, what am I going to write?
	Am I going to write really nice stuff about myself?
	Or really awful stuff?
	Or am I just going to write it all?
	And I finally decided, well, to hell with it.
	Who cares if everybody gets mad at me?
	I'm just going to write the truth.
	And that's really what I did.
	And I'm still in trouble for it with a lot of people.
	I wonder if you went through that same process.
	Well, I didn't want... Yes, I did.
	I went through that process.
	I didn't want my book to be what I would call a bitch and moan fest.
	It's like going through labor and having a baby.
	I left out the bad and put in the good.
	Although, I've noticed I've got about 28 reader reviews on Amazon.com now.
	Yes, I just checked them out.
	By the way, you did actually very well.
	Where are the stars?
	One, two, three, four and a half stars!
	Based on 29 reviews up there, that's really good.
	29?
	Well, there's one I don't know about.
	What I'm really happy about is that men, as well as women, seem to like the book.
	Law enforcement, as well as civilian.
	I'm really happy with what people think about the book.
	But, as I was saying, what I did was, and what I'm happy about, a lot of these reader reviews, people are saying, gee, I really gave them an inside look at the FBI, including some of the bad stuff.
	People have no idea what I didn't put in that book.
	Trust me, I'm saving that for the TV series.
	What kind of stuff, without being specific, what kind of stuff did you not put in the book?
	Treachery, betrayal, backstabbing among agents.
	Oh, you mean normal FBI life?
	Pretty much, you know.
	And that's before you even get to 10 a.m.
	Incompetence, jealousy, You know, women sleeping with the boss to get what they want.
	Any female professional sleeping with the boss, in my opinion, is the anti-feminist.
	And when you're in law enforcement and you're in a predominantly male-dominated profession, to be sleeping with the boss is just the worst.
	Well, you know, I once interviewed a very brilliant female lawyer.
	And she advocated, and not only advocated, but in fact slept her way to the top.
	And she said, it's the only way to go.
	Well, I never took that route, and I would vehemently disagree with that.
	I left a lot of that stuff out, but it'll make for a good TV series, I can tell you that.
	Do you want to have a TV series?
	There's a lot of interest in Hollywood for that.
	I'm not at liberty to give more details, but it could go that direction.
	Really?
	You realize that if you were to have a TV series... Or mutilate them after death.
	Torture is the word we use for something done to a victim before they're dead.
	Mutilate is a word we use for after they're dead.
	Very different types of people commit those different acts, and we know this through tremendous amount of research that's been done, especially by the early profilers.
	Research has been done interviewing these guys in prison, learning how they operate, the experience of the investigators, and statistics play a role in profiling.
	Let me give you one that I talk about in my book.
	Highly significant, and I've quoted a different statistic for the last five weeks since I've been a media consultant on the Shondra Levy case, but before we get on to that, this is a statistic I use in my book, and this gives you an example of how important statistics can be.
	Although they're not probable cause for an arrest or search warrant, but just... An investigative tool.
	Right.
	95% of the time, approximately 95% of the time, a child under 10 years old dies of blunt force trauma to the head in their own home.
	The killer was an adult primary caretaker.
	Who are the primary caretakers of adults?
	Usually mom, dad, and or adult babysitter.
	What we know about children... Okay, first of all, what you are looking at when you have a child under 10 years old, killed in their own home, and they died of a skull fracture, you are looking at the results of an adult that lost their temper and hit that child too hard, either with their own hand or with an instrument.
	That's what you're looking at.
	Now that's generally not a premeditated murder.
	You're looking at manslaughter, still murder.
	Sure it is.
	But generally it's not premeditated.
	What we do know because of studying so many child murders, when kids kill each other, when a seven year old kills a sister, they don't kill them that way.
	And by the way, that almost never happens, where siblings kill each other, even in anger.
	Sometimes it's accidental.
	But, I mean, you're not going to see, you rarely see a 7-year-old picking up a baseball bat and smashing the skull of a 3-year-old.
	It happens not too often.
	And generally what happens is, what we know when these things happen, the adult in the house picks up the phone and calls 911.
	Now, that's a very, very high statistic, 95%.
	It sure is.
	What it tells you is you have to look at every adult that was in the house at the time the child died and they must be eliminated first before you look for other suspects.
	Now let me tell you about another statistic.
	100% of the time of the cases that the FBI looked at where a child died in their own
	home and it was a staged crime scene.
	Right.
	The killer was mom or dad or stepdad or a primary caretaker.
	100% of the time they looked at something like 200 cases.
	Wow.
	Oh, that's incredible.
	Right.
	That really is incredible.
	So, that is, okay, another example, because I've been all over the TV, I've done about 50 TV spots since Shondra Levy disappeared.
	And I do talk about this in my book, because most of the crimes that I was involved in profiling, the victims were women or children.
	Women and children tend to be the victims of sex offenders.
	Why not?
	I'm sorry, I was just going to say, let's get your Take on the whole Shondra Levy thing.
	I've never seen anything like it.
	Thank you Mr. Condit for an interesting summary.
	Here's another statistic in response to your question.
	Let's talk about the Shondra Levy case.
	30% of the time an adult woman is killed in America, murdered in America.
	She was murdered by a man with whom she had an intimate relationship, either a current or past husband, boyfriend, or lover.
	One third of the time. One third. Now, a full another 46 percent, bringing it up to around 76 percent
	of women are murdered by someone that they know. That's pretty high.
	So keep your eye on the ones you love, huh? Yep, don't turn your back.
	Now...
	That all goes to motive.
	I mean, most murders are murders of passion one way or the other.
	Right.
	Anger, revenge, jealousy.
	Except for the total sickos.
	Yeah.
	Now, somebody said to me on one of them, but missed along, that leaves a full 24% are being killed by serial killers.
	No.
	No.
	The other 24% are women who are at a convenience store at the wrong time when somebody comes in and starts shooting.
	Why do you say women?
	that are in a bank robbery when someone starts shooting uh... a little girl or you know an eighteen-year-old girl
	walking home from high school and she's caught in the crossfire of a gang
	shootout why do you say women why isn't it equally possible that a man in the
	wrong place at the wrong time in a convenience store it can be as likely to be
	shot absolutely can be i'm just talking about
	the percentage of time a woman is killed seventy six percent of the time of
	Gotcha.
	And someone, I just want to point out to your listeners, the other 24% are not serial killers.
	In fact, the number of women killed by serial killers, I can't, I would imagine it's less than 1%.
	It's highly rare, but they get all the publicity.
	So, look to the ones you love, is the answer.
	The ones you love, the ones you know.
	I was in, assigned to the San Francisco Division In 1995, I transferred there from Chicago, having spent 25 years in Chicago, 15 of which with the FBI.
	And in the first few months I was there, there were three major news stories of women that were killed, raped and murdered in their own homes by men who had been there before.
	Carpet cleaners, a delivery man, and one woman, in case her front door was open, And some kids were walking by, and they were high on dope, and they just decided to go in and kill somebody.
	You know what, Candace?
	These are all killings that, even horrible as they are, we understand them, because there's motive.
	For some reason, the American public is, and always has been, fascinated with people who kill without apparent motive.
	Now, obviously, there's always motive, a sick personal motive, perhaps, but serial killers.
	For some reason, we have a special fascination Well, you know, it started in the early 80s when the FBI started looking at the early pioneers of profiling, started looking at people that committed murders repeatedly, murdered people they didn't even know.
	In what appeared to be a motiveless crime.
	Indeed, they appear to be motiveless.
	In fact, they are not without motive.
	There are also sexier crimes for the FBI, too, if truth be told, right?
	Oh, sure.
	Absolutely.
	You know, and much more difficult to solve.
	Of course.
	Of course.
	So, how much do you know about serial killers?
	Well, probably more than the average person, because I've had a tremendous amount of training.
	From the Behavioral Science Unit and I read everything I can get my hands on and was involved in a number of cases that involved serial killers and one particular story I have in my book called The Bad Guy.
	It's about a notorious serial killer in Illinois.
	They're almost always guys, right?
	99% of the time.
	Yep, serial killers.
	I'm only aware of one serial killer that was a woman.
	And she would pick up a guy in a bar, entice him, he would take her back to a hotel, she would have sex with him and kill him and steal his money.
	Like Widow?
	Yeah, generally when women are serial killers, it's for profit.
	Marry a rich guy, poison him, he looks like he died of a heart attack, get his money.
	Marry another rich guy, poison him.
	Or what we see, these euthanasia serial killers, these nurses that kill people.
	But it can't just be for money, because they do it again and again, so there's another, there's some other element there.
	Right?
	Yeah, yeah, but it's not a, there's no sexual component to it, there's no sadistic component to their personality, it's not like the Ted Bundy type of serial killings that we see.
	The stalking, the luring, the... What percentage of the time in serial killer cases is part of the crime or the gratification for the crime sexual?
	Well, I would say a fairly high percentage, more than 50%, that there is a sexual component to the crime.
	Uh, what you would call the main motivation for the crime, or is it secondary to it?
	Well, you know, the killers themselves, and even Ted Bundy said after what the sex was really perfunctory to the actual taking of the life is what became so powerful to him.
	Knowing that you have the power to let this person live or die, and that's what he really got off on.
	Should Ted Bundy have been executed?
	Should he have been?
	Yeah.
	Bundy's particular case, there wasn't a great deal to be learned.
	It was only a few days before he was to be executed, before he finally went, OK, you got me, I did it.
	Here, ask me anything you want.
	And there was a book written, a very, very interesting book, a very revealing book, called The Only Living Witness.
	It was written by two journalists, one of whom's name is Stephen Michaud, and I hope if the other one's listening, he forgives me.
	I don't remember his name and Stephen Michaud.
	What they did was they got Bundy to talk in third person.
	Okay, you didn't do it, but tell us about the type of person that might have.
	So they got Bundy to talk in third person and it was pretty revealing.
	You know, I have no problem with Bundy being executed.
	If you ask me that because you're wondering, couldn't we have learned from him?
	He wouldn't let us.
	That is why I asked.
	Yeah.
	You know, the absolute worst thing that ever happened regarding, you know, after Ted Bundy was apprehended, some woman married him while he was on death row.
	Okay, that's not my problem.
	That's her problem.
	But he was allowed to have a conjugal visit and he procreated a child with this woman.
	You're kidding.
	No, you didn't know?
	No, I had no idea.
	No.
	And up until... She always maintained he was innocent.
	And, of course, until the last few days.
	And he went, yep, I killed all these women.
	And then he told us about some people we didn't even know he'd killed.
	And, yeah, he actually was allowed to have a... That's my problem.
	No one convicted of murder and on death row should ever be allowed to have any happiness.
	Do you have a problem executing mentally ill?
	Absolutely.
	You do?
	I was a psychiatrist for 10 years.
	How could Bundy not have been classically mentally ill?
	Because, well, in his day he would have been diagnosed a psychopath and that is a clinical term that has now evolved to the term evolved to sociopath and then it evolved to antisocial personality disorder.
	Basically that is a clinical term for a butthead.
	We call it character disorder.
	I work with the mentally ill for ten years.
	I work with people that literally heard voices in their head that told them they were evil and that they needed to eat flies because they were unworthy of food.
	And they were very delusional.
	Psychotic, schizophrenic, yeah.
	Now that's mentally ill.
	Well, but so is a compulsion to kill.
	I mean, it's a mighty fine line in a lot of ways, isn't it?
	Well, you know, yeah, it is.
	But you know, the interesting thing is the vast majority of schizophrenics that are delusional and hear voices and think that spaceships are drying up their blood, they really commit crimes.
	I mean, these are the people, these are the... Take a look.
	I want your listeners to think.
	The next time they look at a homeless person on the street, The homeless people on the street that never look at you and ask you for money are probably schizophrenic.
	They're hearing voices.
	They're delusional.
	They do not like people.
	They do not like being around people.
	They can't stand to be touched.
	They are very unlikely to go up to you and say, do you have any spare change?
	The people that are holding up signs saying, we'll work for money, or say, hey buddy, can you spare a dime?
	Can you buy me a cup of coffee?
	Chances are they're not mentally ill.
	The very seriously mentally ill are that they don't even approach you.
	And they rarely commit crimes, although sometimes their delusions and their psychoses, meaning out of touch with reality, does result in them committing a crime.
	I would like to talk about the woman that killed her family in Texas.
	Okay.
	I believe she, from everything I read, seriously mentally ill, psychotically depressed.
	Does she try to hide it?
	No.
	Does she go on the lam?
	No.
	She kills her children one by one.
	Hey, I'm a mother.
	I can understand being angry, but come on.
	And then calls her husband and calls the police and tells them what she did.
	She had a history of mental illness.
	She was on a major anti-psychotic medication, Haldol.
	And now, people are calling for her to be hung and executed because of what she did.
	I'll tell you, not everybody associated with that horrible crime is in jail.
	The husband and the doctor should be in the jail.
	Well, it is a very fine line.
	I mean, really, in a way, what Bundy did and what she did, both could be classified one way or the other as so deviant from normal as to be dubbed mental illness.
	Except that Ted Bundy knew that what he was doing was wrong, and I do not believe this woman did.
	Now, I wasn't there at the time she did it.
	But I think there's no comparing Ted Bundy planning, stalking, luring, torturing, and then raping and killing women.
	You're a strong believer in the death penalty.
	You know what, Art?
	Not as strong as I used to be.
	Really?
	Too many people have gotten off of death row because DNA cleared them, so how can I be I'm not the hang-em-high person I used to be.
	Yeah, that is a recent trend and very worrisome and concerning.
	It should be for everybody.
	So many DNA reports suddenly springing people who were on death row, out of death row.
	Any proponent of the death penalty has got to at least be considering that.
	Absolutely.
	I have, you know, getting back to the mental ill, before we get into the death penalty thing, because I can see this is going to really get into a long conversation.
	I mean, I think a society should be judged on how they treat their mentally ill, and I don't think we do a very good job in this country.
	Nor do I. Listen, we're right at the top of the hour, and we'll pick up on this when we get back.
	Stay right there.
	Candace DeLong.
	Her book is Special Agent My Life on the Front Lines as a Woman in the FBI.
	Check it out on Amazon.com through my website right now.
	I'm Art Bell.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 28, 2001.
	Thrown down in a spin I said you love, I thought that we I made it to the top, I gave you all I have to give
	Why did it have to stop?
	You've blown it all sky high By telling me you're lying
	I know you think we're another crazy day You're thinking I don't weigh and forget about everything
	This pretty designation feels so cold inside So many people but it's got no soul
	And it's taken you so long I thought you were wrong when you thought it held
	everything You used to say that it was so easy
	You used to say that it was so easy But you're trying, you're trying now
	I know it won't make you be happy It won't make you be happy
	But you're crying, you're crying now You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere In Time
	On Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from August 28th, 2001.
	20 years in the FBI, and then she wrote a book in the town.
	Now, Special Agent, my life on the front lines as a woman in the FBI, I've met a lot of people when she wrote that book.
	Well, she was in the process, wondered what she was going to write, but a lot of people wondered what she was going to write.
	Candice DeLong will be right back.
	Here once again is Candice DeLong and if you fit into a category
	category.
	Roughly described as not a danger to yourself or a danger to others, and yet you are not well enough mentally to hold down a job or be socially functional.
	Then you fall through the cracks in America, and I think that's kind of what we're talking about at the top of the hour.
	Is that about the right category, Candace?
	Well, in a way.
	Oftentimes, if someone's mental illness is too severe for them to hold a job and that would be
	generally we're talking about someone who is schizophrenic.
	Sure.
	And just to have a listening audience know what I mean by that for sure.
	That does not mean multiple personality or split personality.
	Schizophrenics are, it's a terrible, it's the most serious mental illness there is.
	It's characterized by delusions and auditory hallucinations.
	I mean these people actually believe alien spaceships are controlling their mind and
	sending radio beams through the fillings in their teeth and they may actually be hearing
	voices in their head that are very persecutory in nature.
	You know I never had a schizophrenic tell me that the voices in their head tell them
	gee you really look good today, Candace.
	I mean they're horrible things.
	And they drive them to distraction.
	With medication and treatment, often times the auditory hallucinations and the delusions
	can be brought to a minimal so that sometimes they can hold menial jobs.
	But often times it just doesn't work.
	They can't.
	And if they get into the system at some point, then they can be put on SSI disability income.
	There's no reason for a seriously mentally ill person in our society to be on the street begging for money.
	There's no reason for it at all.
	But they are there.
	You and I pay a lot of taxes so that they don't have to do that.
	So if they are doing it, either they have never gotten into the system, Or for some reason, they can have enough money through FSI disability to have an inexpensive apartment, renting a room, and food stamps.
	They do not have to do that.
	But they do.
	And not just the mentally ill, but the physically disabled too.
	Yes, they do.
	But, as I mentioned earlier, often times these are the homeless people on the streets that are not asking you for money.
	Maybe we can't be so proud of the society we have Created until we finally get to that problem.
	I've said that for years and I believe that too.
	I think we dropped the ball when it comes to taking care of the mental ill in this country and it's not something, you know, I'm sure there's a certain number of your listeners going, oh come on, who cares, that doesn't affect me.
	Believe me, we need to take care of the mental ill because it very much can affect you.
	I even have a discussion in my book of one of the more famous cases, one of the original cases on profiling where profiling really Uh, worked out well.
	The profile itself led to the identification and subsequent apprehension of a gruesome serial killer who was committing serious, horrible murders because of his delusions.
	He was killing people and drinking their blood.
	It was a Sacramento vampire murder case in 1978.
	He was killing people, disemboweling them and drinking their blood because he really believed and had for 10 years.
	That alien spaceships were drying up his blood, turning his blood into mud, and he had to replace it.
	For years, he killed small animals and drank their blood, and then he moved on to people.
	Actually, that's classic vampire behavior.
	Vampirism actually is a clinical term.
	Did you know that?
	Well, listen, I talked to a bishop in Great Britain.
	Who's been dealing with vampires all his adult life and killed one.
	It was quite a story.
	Yikes!
	Yikes is right.
	And that brings me to this question.
	You know, my program frequently focuses on X-Files kinds of things.
	Did you, during your period in the FBI, ever hear of any investigation that was going on that sounded kind of like an X-Files investigation?
	Well, you know, the thing is, I get asked this all the time.
	Actually, we have We used to work the exiles, but we've got the alien population now well under control.
	Most of them work for the IRS.
	If that sounded rehearsed, it was.
	You never did, is the answer.
	And I think if there is anything like that, I have a feeling that would fall under the purview of the United States Air Force.
	Okay, I want to ask you about two things that are not going to be easy now, okay?
	The first is, what were your emotions and thoughts when you saw the compound at Waco go up in flames?
	Well, I thought it was a very, it was a 51-day fugitive standoff.
	I wondered why, when we had snipers On numerous occasions, FBI snipers had David Koresh's head in the crosshairs of their scopes.
	Why they didn't take him out, wrong or right, I believe that often times when you cut off the head, the rest of the snake will die.
	It was horrible that those children died.
	The FBI, I believe, was not responsible for that.
	We did not uh... set fires we will we you know it had it had a
	horrible i know there's been a on a on videos made there's a lot of
	contradict conspiracy theorists
	when the i've started a fire in for a it that didn't happen
	you know and there's been a tremendous amount of taxpayers money spent on
	proving that it didn't happen But couldn't David Koresh have been taken, if not out, into custody without having it turn into this godforsaken standoff that it did?
	Well, you know, people forget this.
	This did not start out as an FBI case.
	That was an ATF case.
	Well, indeed, but I do recall, as I think most of the public does, almost a daily briefing by the head FBI fellow at Waco once it got there.
	Right.
	What a lot of people don't realize is that initially the ATF was serving a legal search warrant, and seven agents were shot, four died, and then the FBI was called in.
	Um, and so every, you know, and then of course, we were there.
	The whole thing went up in flames and we had put tear gas into the compound.
	Were you there?
	No, goodness no.
	No.
	You know, the FBI was there.
	We put tear gas into the compound.
	Usually that has the effect of people come out.
	You know, it had gone on for 51 days.
	Um, disastrous consequences, for sure.
	Yeah, I remember the FBI agent in charge saying, we'll wait until hell freezes over if we have to.
	Well, really, that didn't happen.
	It is my understanding, based on congressional hearings and congressional testimony at least three times, that we had reason to believe that Koresh was... I know that Koresh was about to do something very serious, and that the greatest negotiators that we had believed that he was about to do something serious, kill his own people, whatever, And so at that point we moved in, put in the tear gas to get the people out, and you saw what happened.
	Sure.
	I mean, he set the place on fire.
	Most of the people that were killed in the compound, there were people piled up, his own people piled up in front of the exit doors with bullets in the back of their heads.
	You probably got to watch it on CNN like most everybody else.
	What was the mood in the FBI, you know, when all that came down?
	Of course, you can imagine that because it is our own agency, and we are pro-law enforcement, and also a conservative agency, that there were a lot of feelings and thoughts that, you know, gee, it's really bad it went down this way, but we're glad it's over.
	On the other hand, it was, you know, that there were so many children died.
	I never saw what happened as murder.
	I came home one day shortly after that happened.
	I lived in a residential neighborhood in Chicago, a suburb.
	One of my neighbors, I got out of my car and said, Hi, how are you doing?
	She turned her back to me.
	I thought she didn't hear me.
	I said, Hey, how are you doing?
	She turned to me and said, How could you kill babies?
	So it was demoralizing.
	It was demoralizing.
	I lived through a few of these in my 20 years in the FBI.
	Ruby Ridge, Waco.
	Ruby Ridge was going to be the next one I was going to ask you about.
	Actually, most people don't realize this, but Ruby Ridge was before Waco happened.
	Some pretty rough stuff at Ruby Ridge.
	Once again, the FBI called in after.
	I know, but you correct me if I'm wrong here.
	Didn't this begin over a gun barrel that was maybe a quarter or half an inch or something, too much sawed off, but a tiny amount, relatively?
	Well, I don't know the exact details.
	All I know is that it was another federal agency had him on some kind of weapons charge And sent up the U.S.
	Marshals to get him, and things went from bad to worse.
	I can tell you that when I was in Montana on the Kaczynski situation, we had many, many long hours, many discussions about how to arrest Kaczynski.
	And we felt that very strongly, as a result of what happened at Ruby Ridge in Waco, That the best way to get Kaczynski and to avoid another Ruby Ridge or Waco, lure him out and mug him.
	Mug him when he comes to town, lure him out, grab him.
	There's no reason for a Cecil B. DeMille production here.
	The guy's going to come out of his cabin.
	If he doesn't come out, we'll lure him out, we grab him, put him in cuffs.
	Yeah, I take it from the top in the FBI, I'm sure, after these two incidences, that message went out, didn't it?
	Well, I would imagine.
	That's certainly how we felt, and I was with members of the San Francisco Unabomber Task Force, and that was how we felt.
	And there also was pressure from headquarters to maybe have the hostage rescue team arrest the Unabomber.
	Well, I can tell you this.
	FBI agents live for one thing, and it's to arrest someone and put the cuffs on them after a long-term investigation.
	You don't want to do all the work and then hand it over to somebody else.
	Right.
	The best part of an investigation is arresting someone.
	Well, a conviction is the next best thing.
	But, I mean, come on, you live for that.
	There was no way we wanted to turn that over to people that hadn't even been involved in the case.
	And I think, you know, in looking back, we obviously made the right decision.
	No shots were fired.
	No one was hurt.
	You know, everything went well.
	And there you go.
	Suspect in custody.
	All right, we hear about all the, you know, the ones that turn out well.
	We don't hear about the ones that got away.
	And there have got to be the ones that get away.
	What was the biggest case, without mentioning names, if it's important not to, that you ever worked on, that you just knew damn well you had the perpetrator, or the killer, or whatever, and you couldn't get them, or her?
	Chapter 5 in my book, Over the Counter, The Tylenol Murderer.
	Oh, the Tylenol murder.
	Do you remember that pesky guy?
	Oh, of course.
	You were on that case?
	Yes.
	I was a rookie.
	It was 1982.
	And for your younger listeners, in 1982, one Thursday, Friday in Chicago, seven or eight people dropped dead shortly after ingesting Tylenol.
	Unconnected people all over the city.
	And a link was eventually made.
	A couple paramedics in different municipalities made the link.
	Because they were friends, and they talked to each other, and gee, I took this girl to the hospital after she had taken Tylenol.
	Gee, that's funny.
	I took this guy to the hospital after, you know, because when you die of a cyanide poisoning, it looks like you're having a heart attack.
	Right.
	Except 12-year-old girls don't have heart attacks.
	Right.
	And so they made the connection, and pretty soon it was verified that it was Tylenol, tainted Tylenol, and the race was on.
	And one week after all these people died, Extortion note was received by the makers of Tylenol, saying for a million dollars I'll stop the killing.
	Deposit a million dollars in this account.
	And he gave an account number.
	Did they want to pay?
	Pardon me?
	Did they want to pay?
	Oh, they, well, you know, they were very cooperative.
	One of the very first things they did was take all of Tylenol off the shelf.
	They didn't even have to be asked to.
	Nationwide.
	My question was, did they want to pay?
	I've never been asked that, and I don't know the answer.
	I wasn't involved at that level.
	But the interesting thing about it was, in negotiations with the extortionist, he said, deposit the money in this account at this bank, blah, blah, blah, XXX Bank.
	And so we immediately find out who has that account, and it's this businessman who ran an employment agency in Chicago.
	And it becomes obvious very quickly, he is not the guy that sent this extortion note.
	So what's the first question you ask anybody like that?
	Well, who in the world would want to frame you for murder?
	I mean, one of the highest, the highest profile crime in America today, I mean, and he says, well, you know, I didn't know I had any, you know, well, I did, you know, there was this woman, I was unable to pay her her last paycheck, I went bankrupt, I couldn't pay all my employees, Her husband was very upset about that and he tried to rally... To catch the bad guy is to take somebody who committed maybe some kind of horrible crime and plea bargain with him instead of life in prison or the death penalty.
	You know, you're talking 25 or 20 years or 15 years or even 10 years.
	Listen, hold on.
	We'll get to this when we get back.
	I'm Art Bell.
	And oh yes, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 28, 2001.
	The Coast to Coast AM concert was held at the San Francisco International Airport on August 28, 2001.
	The concert was held at the San Francisco International Airport on August 28, 2001.
	Be it light, sand, or snow, touch the something.
	Thank you.
	Inside that they need so much.
	The sight of a touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak roots deep in the ground.
	The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up, through tarmac to the sun again.
	Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
	To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing.
	To have all these things in our memories home.
	I'm the only son to help you.
	Why, why does it all take its toll on this trip, just for me? Why, take a free ride, to the place I've always dreamed
	in my dreams?
	I was always waiting for you, with my heart, just to win my fear, and to live my life with all I had, but by now, I
	know, I should be proud.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 28, 2001.
	Candace DeLong, 20 years in the FBI, is my guest.
	Her book is Special Agent, My Life on the Front Lines as a woman in the FBI.
	You go to my website and you go to program tonight's guest info.
	It'll take you right over to Amazon.com where you can buy that book at a gigantic discount.
	And Candace, though, a couple of times saying you're going to have to read the book has been very candid with us on very, very Difficult subjects, and I'm going to take her back to one of them in a moment.
	I'm Art Bell.
	As we move through the night, stay right where you are.
	All right, I'm going to entertain some phone calls this half hour.
	Just a couple of things that I want to get out of the way.
	Candice DeLong, once again, welcome back.
	Thanks for being a trooper and staying with us the whole time here.
	Oh, thank you.
	Candice, plea bargaining.
	Sometimes, to the American public, it is sickening.
	And I would imagine... It's what a sickening does, too.
	Is it?
	Oh, yeah.
	In other words, you can have somebody who actually committed a murder, but you need to get to somebody even bigger, and you can actually bargain away... It's like bargaining away a life, in a way, isn't it?
	It seems that way.
	I have a case that I talk about in my book of a serial killer.
	I think I mentioned him earlier in Illinois.
	A serial killer of women and children.
	And when he was caught, he immediately cut a deal.
	You know, I'll tell you where the body is, and you know, life, no parole, you know, rather than death.
	And the prosecutors took it, and I was livid.
	Was it the only way the case was going to get made?
	I didn't think so, but I was told, hey DeLong, a bird in the hand, two in the bush, you never know how a jury's going to go.
	But you know what, when you've got a dead kid, pretty much whoever's sitting at the defendant's table is going to go away.
	Boy, it must make for some long nights.
	How did you not take a lot of that home with you, or did you?
	I did.
	I did.
	And at the time, I was raising a little boy, who's a young man now, and it was tough.
	Very, very, very tough.
	But you know, you swallow it, and you power through it, and you go on.
	If you let it get to you, you can't do your job.
	You kind of walked away from the Ruby Ridge question a little bit.
	Ruby Ridge, again, the same kind of question for you as Waco, and that is, how did that affect you when it came down?
	How did that affect the agency?
	Well, it was disheartening, to say the least.
	We were generally... Well, I'll speak for myself.
	I can't speak for the agency.
	I was very, very upset that the Department of Justice uh... paid randy weaver i think two or three four million dollars uh... and then later congressional hearings so we don't even know who shot his son I would have liked to have seen that adjudicated I have this to say about Ruby Ridge and Waco in both situations the media was
	Very present, very involved, and whenever that happens, we can't do our job effectively.
	I think personally, and there are those that would be very angry with me saying this in my profession, I think that the negotiations went on way too long.
	Yes, it's better to negotiate and save lives than not negotiate and lose lives, but gosh, look what happened anyway.
	There's no right or wrong answers.
	You know, don't ever count on them too much.
	They'll always let you down.
	How much would you say the agency is moved by the media?
	I think when the media gets involved in any case, the case can become media-driven.
	That's not always bad.
	Case in point, the case in the news right now, the Chandra Levy case, I think.
	But for the media, Uh, Shondra Levy would just be another missing person and this investigation that we've got going wouldn't, wouldn't have happened.
	And I believe, despite, you know, everyone in the world saying, you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong, um, I believe this case is going to be solved.
	I don't know that it's going to be solved tomorrow, but I think we are going to know what happens.
	What do you, what do you think it'll actually come to a conclusion?
	I have an observation and a question.
	No, not when you couldn't know that, but you already answered the question.
	Now, whether it will ever come to a conclusion.
	I believe it will.
	I believe it will.
	Okay, let's take a couple of calls.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Candice DeLong and RFL, good morning.
	Is that me?
	That's you.
	Yeah, I have an observation and a question.
	You know, I'm sure, you know, when the ATF hit Waco, that they had their video cameras
	running to show essentially how they were going to, and this is a quote on you, how
	they were going to legally exercise the search warrant.
	Of course, people came out of Waco, it says that the Koresh met them at the door and was met with a hail of bullets.
	Now, you know, they bulldozed the thing afterward.
	They had a video clip and it was, this was discussed on Art Bill's K-Dawn Show way back when.
	But anyway, in that video clip, it showed this Modified tank chassis delivering your CS.
	Hitting the upwind corner of that building.
	There was a light in the upper window.
	That light went down, and a few seconds later, flames came up.
	Now, ma'am, I don't know how much research you've done on this, but, you know, a conspiracy law not only applies, in my opinion, to we as individuals, but also to people who are involved in this sort of thing, and the International Rifle Association.
	offered on its own expense on expense to x-ray all of weapons
	remains that were there to determine whether or not that was anything
	illegal and the federal government would have about
	and i i think that and until this is resolved i think that we really fear
	a gestapo like federal agency i mean the kind of thing that happened down there
	we never even heard of coming out of nancy germany marie boomer that man is representative
	of a lot of thought uh... in the country about that incident whether it's
	justified or not that's the way it turned out
	And there's a lot of people who believe as that man believes, uh, and that had to have hurt.
	You know, it hurt everybody.
	There was an innocent time in America.
	I grew up in it in the fifties.
	And God, you know, when the FBI would come out and announce, uh, the capture of some fugitive that they'd been after for a long time.
	Man, you could take that to the bank.
	The American people would believe the FBI, boom, boom, boom, boom, just like that.
	Even though J. Edgar Hoover was there, we just, we believed every single word, with good reason.
	And that's just not true anymore, is it?
	Well, without question, there's a percentage of Americans that don't believe a single thing good about the FBI.
	I'll give you that.
	That incident, no matter which side of the aisle you're on, your side or that man's side, it changed something in America, didn't it?
	I think it did, and I think it certainly changed the way certain people look at the FBI.
	But what I also believe is that in my 30 plus years as an adult, 10 years in mental health, and 20 years with the federal government in a law enforcement agency, You know, there are certain people who hold attitudes that the facts don't matter.
	You know, and there are certainly people in law enforcement who think the facts don't matter.
	And you're never going to have a meeting of the minds.
	You're never going to have a meeting of the minds.
	OK.
	Let's keep going.
	What's with the Rockies?
	You're on the air with Candice Malone.
	Hello.
	Hello there.
	No.
	First time caller on the line.
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	OK.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	OK.
	Okay, you're on the air, sir.
	Hi, Art.
	It's a pleasure to speak to you.
	I'm a truck driver, and I live in Huntington Beach.
	My name is Sam.
	Yes, Sam.
	I have a question.
	Is there a department such as the X-Files?
	Well, we already asked that one.
	Actually, though, though you said you never saw it, you sort of did say there was an X-Files, or were you just joking?
	I was joking.
	I think, you know, if you're talking about investigation of UFOs... No, no.
	Not necessarily.
	But there are an awful lot of things.
	Well, for example, a lot of law enforcement agencies are known to use psychics.
	Oh, not us.
	You want to know what I think about psychics?
	Yeah.
	I'll be happy to tell you.
	Sure, go ahead.
	To quote Mark Kloss, father of kidnap, rape, murder victim Polly Kloss, psychics are the second wave of predators.
	This is what I have to say to psychics, because I worked cases, the vast majority of cases that I worked as a profiler had to do with missing people and murdered people, women and children, and psychics come out of it and they all say the same thing.
	I see water, I see a fence, and this is what I have to say to them.
	Hand them a shovel and say, really?
	You know what the victim is?
	Here, show me where you are going to dig.
	I have never known Ever in my 20 years as an agent of a psychic to be accurate.
	Never.
	Never?
	Never.
	If they were that good, and if there were so many of them that are that good, how come we have so many missing people and unsolved murders?
	That is a statement as well as a question.
	Actually, let me turn it on you.
	How many missing people do we have and unsolved murders?
	Goodness.
	No, I mean, well, okay, annually, I guess.
	I would think annually, missing persons and unsolved murders, thousands.
	Thousands.
	Thousands of people who are gone without explanation, without conclusive investigation, just gone.
	A lot of people go missing and they're never even reported missing.
	You know, I mean, there's 280 million people in this country.
	Now, when a child goes missing, that's noticed.
	Yeah, but then an obvious follow-up question is, then really, how many unsolved crimes do we have versus solved by percentage?
	I think, and don't hold me to this, but I think in terms of homicides, like when you've got a documented homicide Someone has been murdered.
	Yes.
	And in terms of unsolved, the vast majority of them are solved.
	I think well over 80% are solved.
	But if you factor in the missing and the unaccounted for?
	Oh, well, then I would imagine the number is astronomical.
	A lot of people go missing having nothing to do with having met a violent end by another person.
	People with Alzheimer's walk out of their homes and walk into the forest.
	People, mentally ill people, walk into a... People just go missing for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with being murdered.
	Some people meet with a terribly violent, untimely demise that had nothing to do with another person.
	So, that could be the case with Sean Verlevy?
	It could be, but I don't think it is.
	I understand that.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Candice DeLong and Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	How are you?
	Okay, sir.
	Where are you?
	Turn off my radio.
	Okay, thank you.
	Please do that, everybody.
	Have it handy so you can turn it off.
	Where are you and what's your first name?
	Victor, and I'm in Kennewick, Washington.
	Okay, fire away, Victor.
	I just wanted to say I'm really intrigued by the topic tonight.
	I'm also a Law & Order fan.
	Great.
	Dynamite show.
	Yes, sir.
	Anyway, do you have a question?
	Well, more of a statement.
	Kind of a statement, a question statement, I guess.
	Okay, go.
	For your guests.
	Go ahead.
	We don't have a lot of time, sir.
	Go ahead.
	About mentally ill people, I happen to be mentally ill.
	I have manic depressive.
	And not all mentally ill people lack a conscience.
	Absolutely, I agree with you.
	I have a problem with theft but I do have a conscience about it and I just wanted to say that.
	You bring up a good point and I certainly didn't mean to convey to anyone that I believe the mentally ill are without conscience.
	Basically the only type of mental illness, you know, category of people that don't seem to have a conscience is a category that we would call the sociopath, the psychopath, or the antisocial personality.
	Certainly not people with your diagnosis.
	But the fact that he has a conscience, that he feels badly about what he has done, implies clearly that he understands he is doing wrong when he does it.
	Yes, otherwise he wouldn't feel the guilt.
	So then, if he were to be caught for stealing, it's prosecutable, right?
	Well, yes.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Candace DeLong and Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Yes, sir.
	Hi.
	Am I live?
	I don't know.
	You seem alive.
	Okay, that's a very good sense of humor.
	Where are you, sir?
	I'm calling you from the Midwest.
	Okay.
	I would just like to know, first of all, good morning everyone.
	Secondly, I'll be short and brief.
	When the United States Justice Department, they definitely have a lot on their hands from immigration to law enforcement, but I was wondering if your guess is being less than forthcoming or simply does not know or want to acknowledge human intelligence, electronic intelligence, rumor intelligence.
	The operation of American Armed Forces on American soil, working against Americans themselves.
	This is not something I'm making up.
	Give us an instance.
	For instance would be when the FBI goes in.
	and give us a for instance good up for instance would be when the fbi goes and um... all of the look at the the d
	when they make it easier that the intelligence that's gathered by recon
	unit and united state marine corps generally usually eighty
	ninety percent of the time
	They go in, leave, they give the DEA the information that they need, the DEA lands, they confiscate, and then they make the headlines.
	But they didn't really do the intelligence work, as I was talking about, rumor intelligence, human intelligence, electronic intelligence, signal intelligence.
	In Waco, for instance, the intelligence that was given to the United States Justice Department ahead of time was that Mr. Koresh could have been taken up jogging.
	In town?
	In town.
	But as she pointed out, they were serving a search warrant when all this began.
	But, you know, you've got a good point.
	Hindsight is always 20-20, but again, Candace, we don't have a lot of time here, but there's a man who believes That U.S.
	military forces are being used in conjunction with domestic federal agencies like the FBI, for example.
	You want to comment on that?
	Well, I believe that it was at least two presidential administrations ago where, I think it had to do with the drug war, I could be wrong on this, and President Bush.
	Where we got involved and started using U.S.
	military to help us on the war on drugs.
	Regarding their involvement on anything not drug-related, I couldn't comment on that.
	I did work drugs for three years.
	I worked with the DEA.
	I never worked with the military.
	I'm reading a book right now called Killing Pablo about the hunt.
	Escobar, yeah.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	What is your position on the drug war, Candace?
	If you were the drug czar, You've looked at all this long enough to come to some sort of conclusion.
	A lot of very conservative people are beginning to say, that's it.
	Enough.
	We've got to change our drug laws in America.
	Are you one of those?
	No.
	And I do have a very strong statement about that in my book.
	However, my feelings about... I used to be of the feeling, come on, let's start locking up the users again.
	Well, there aren't enough prisons.
	We'd have to build so many more.
	I mean, we have to stop the demand.
	For drugs, and I think probably the only way to do that is in increased education and starting it in kindergarten.
	About 60% of the incarcerated now, I understand, which top a million easily, going toward two million, I think.
	Right, right.
	That's all drug related, right?
	Yes, and something like over 50% of the prisoners brought into Cook County Jail in Chicago were tested.
	And I think it was something like 64% of them committed the crime when they were either high on drugs or alcohol.
	Don't ask me if I think we should legalize... Well, I do not think we should legalize drugs.
	I do not.
	No change in our drug laws at all?
	Tougher, if anything?
	Well, I don't know about that.
	You know, I have a problem sending uh... and and get a home on
	he's trying to keep you kids to prison for ten years because she was running
	drug so she could buy groceries for her kid uh... we need to
	we need to do something with her but we definitely need to get a we need to get
	a boxes in jail very tough to do
	i'd do i'll tell you straight up i don't have an answer to the drug problem
	but i do not want to be drug legalizing the country i do i think it's a huge mistake and we're up to you would
	you mobilize the military domestically to uh... attack the problem harder
	i've never been asked that but i have Okay, let's imagine I have a crown on my head.
	Hmm, I'm liking it.
	Yeah, I think I would.
	You would.
	And I'll tell you why, Art.
	I think drugs and guns are the worst thing to ever happen in this country.
	Guns, too.
	I was raised like you in the 50s.
	Drugs didn't exist.
	Look at us now.
	Oh, I... Yeah, that's right.
	In the 50s, Roy, they didn't.
	They began to exist in large quantities.
	In the late 60s, early 70s.
	That's right.
	Yeah, and look at us now.
	You know, I mean, you know, our children face things.
	I mean... Candace, the show is coming to an end because I've got a horrible back and I'm doing four hours.
	I want to have you back and I want to do this again because we have just begun into an area that needs a lot more explanation.
	So, can we do this again?
	Absolutely.
	Good luck with your book.
	You're going to do very well.
	Thank you.
	I'm very pleased so far.
	Good night, Candace.
	Okay.
	Take care.

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