Richard C. Hoagland argues Mars once hosted life, oceans, and a dense atmosphere due to a 500-million-year tidal lock with "Planet 5," destroyed ~65 million years ago—aligning with the dinosaur extinction. Viking missions’ 1976 "labeled release" experiment detected microbial activity, but NASA dismissed it as "funny chemistry." Hoagland’s model predicts hydrogen pools in Tharsis/Arabia and radioactive isotopes like Al-26 on NASA’s 2001 Mars Odyssey, suggesting a nuclear-level catastrophe. If proven, this could revolutionize Mars exploration, offering water, fuel, and a refuge for Earth’s future, while debunking conventional theories about the planet’s barren origins. [Automatically generated summary]
Good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be across the world, from coast to coast and well beyond.
This is Coast to Coast A.M., and I'm Mark Bell.
Howdy do, all you chosen ones out there.
Great to be here tonight.
Next hour, Richard C. Hoagland will be here.
He claims to have solved the mystery of Mars.
No small claim.
Listen, as we sail over 500 affiliates now nationwide, I would like to welcome WCBX in Martinsville, Virginia.
900 on the AM dial of Martinsville.
And guess this, folks?
We thought they had been there earlier, but tonight, I really, really, really would like to welcome WTNT.
Interesting call letters for Washington, D.C., wouldn't you say?
Washington, Bethesda.
570 on the dial.
That should carry and carry and carry.
570 on the dial.
Washington, D.C., and the Bethesda area.
WTNT.
ENT.
All right.
I want to get to open lines fairly soon this hour, but a couple of things, a few things to get in here.
President Bush, as you know, said Thursday night he is, in fact, going to support federal funding for limited medical research on embryonic stem cells.
And in months of anguish on the diverse issue, Bush said his decision balanced concerns about protecting life and improving life.
I've made this decision with great care and pray it's the right one, Bush said in a primetime speech from his Texas ranch.
I think he made, all in all, probably a good decision.
I have a feeling that the pro-life forces on the right are not going to feel that way at all.
We'll see.
A Palestinian suicide bomber detonated a nail-studded explosive inside a crowded Jerusalem pizzeria at lunchtime on Thursday.
It killed 15 people, wounded 90 more.
There will be retribution, and I fear, soon, a Mideast war.
NASA has delayed the shuttle launch.
Guess why?
Thunderstorms.
But we'll see.
And indeed, the weather is a story.
The heat wave that has baked much of the country for days set more records Thursday.
The Mercury reaching 102 in New York, 103 in Newark, breaking the record for the date of 100 set in both cities in 1949, up where my network is in Oregon, 108 degrees hotter than it was here near Death Valley.
Here's a couple of emails I thought you might like to hear.
Art, here in Ontario, we've had 15 heat records broken this week, coupled not too ironically with record severe smog alert days.
Temperature has been about 36 to 7 Celsius or something like 97 or 98 degrees Fahrenheit with humidity they say we're well into the 105s and to top it all off at the beginning of the week appeared thousands and thousands if not millions of tiny fruit fly type bugs flying around everywhere in Toronto.
I mean there was not a person walking around in the sixth largest city in North America that wasn't swiping at the bugs, wiping them off their eyes, mouths, blowing them out of their noses.
I mean these bugs were everywhere like rain.
When I got home there were hundreds of them mostly dead in my pockets and all over the outside of my clothes.
At first I thought it must be normal somehow and it was just one of those strange bug days that I'd never really noticed before and these bugs had all hatched at the same time or something.
But the paper says they're aphids and this had never happened in the city before.
It said had something to do with the migrating because of the heat wave or something like that.
Guess what?
They were back again today.
And then I got this.
Hey art.
Hello from northern Italy.
That's where I am and these hailstorms are incredible.
It damages cars and homes all the time now.
Three weeks ago there was a tornado by my home near Milan.
A tornado is really unheard of here.
I've lived in Seattle for many years, never seen weather like this.
Locals say it's the weirdest they've ever seen.
And so it goes on and on and on.
I get all kinds of email faxes and stories about the bizarre weather.
Wake up, everybody.
The change is underway.
Investigators in north central Montana are baffled by a string of cattle mutilations since mid-June prompting one agency to seek help from a group that studies unconventional theories including UFOs.
Ranchers in Dubai and Fort Shaw have reported four cattle deaths in which portions of the animals' faces were cut or peeled off and eyeballs and genitals removed.
The animals had not been shot.
Investigators say whoever is responsible left very few clues behind.
The killings are similar to a string of cattle deaths in the 1970s in the same general area in which more than 60 cattle in five counties were found mutilated.
Those remains remain unsolved and prompted speculation at the time that some of the deaths were the work of aliens or satanic cults of some sort.
But none of that really works out.
You might want to know nobody has ever been charged and convicted of doing any of this stuff.
Column Cullerher, Deputy Administrator of the National Institute for Discovery Science in Las Vegas, you know him, he's on here all the time, confirmed Tuesday the Sheriff's Office had contacted the Institute for help.
They heard about some of our previous research from a retired deputy sheriff in the area, said Column.
The group describes itself as a research organization that studies a variety of unconventional scientific theories, while you certainly know about NIDS, don't you?
One of you writes in email, Art, could these animal mutilations have anything to do With cloning.
Going after reproductive organs and other parts like udders, eyeballs, tongues.
Well, it sounds somewhat similar to what they did to clone Dolly, the sheep in the UK.
With Dolly.
They took a cell from a sheep's udder and by using electricity combined it with a cell from another sheep.
I don't know.
But I thought it could be an interesting theory, and it is an interesting theory, isn't it, as we prepare, I guess, on a ship offshore to clone 200 human beings.
You know about that story.
Ah, but we do indeed live in strange times, don't we, folks?
Anyway, I want to get the lines open very early tonight, so that's coming up in a moment.
All right, let us move to open lines.
Anything goes, talk radio, anything you want to talk about is fair game.
Those were just a few suggestions at the beginning.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hello, Art.
Hello, sir.
I'm going from Boomton, New York.
Okay.
Where it's kind of hot here, but still alive.
Yeah, it's been a pretty good heat wave, huh?
Listen, I want to do a follow-up on that story you did about the guy that hooked himself up to his lawn furniture and took off with balloons.
Back in around 1954, an airline pilot was coming into Albany Airport, Albany, New York.
Right.
And he called the tower and said that he was looking at a guy through his binoculars sitting on a bicycle tire, eating a lettuce and tomato sandwich, just waving at him.
And he had himself a pocket full of, I think it was BBs or I don't know what do you call it, ball bearings, and a slingshot, which a guy in the lawn furniture had a BB gun.
I mean, you've got to admit, floating in that way would really be cool.
Yeah, I would imagine it would be the thrill of a lifetime.
There would be dangers, however.
Here in the desert, for example, we have these wonderful, calm, beautiful, nothing stirs kind of days.
But then here in the desert near Death Valley, the wind can come up with zero warning, and you can go from zero, I mean absolute calm, to 30 miles an hour in about one minute.
I don't think I'd go overboard and put up enough balloons to carry me to some gigantic great altitude.
I'd want to kind of just Float.
You know, above the trees, maybe, and certainly above the power lines, but not much higher.
About like that, and sort of drift across the valley on a nice day.
That would be a trip, wouldn't it?
But somehow something always goes wrong, and you're waving at 747s at full cruise altitude.
Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hello?
Yeah, you know, in regard to the balloonist with the lawn chair, I don't know if it's a case of art imitating life or life imitating art, but that was the thing of an A-Team episode several years back.
If you go to most doctors and you talk to them about what she did, for example, to cure her own cancer, they'll all, almost all of them will absolutely agree.
But boy, will they say that officially?
unidentified
No, of course not.
But you can't argue with the fact that she did and how she did it.
Well, in the movies, I know they take metal objects like that and open them up, and something inevitably crawls out, usually between midnight and about 3 a.m. and eats the people in the lab, and then gets into the woods and starts eating the locals.
unidentified
Yes, the movies are always like that, aren't they?
Yes.
And the other thing that I had to say was that all this weather stuff that's going on here lately, if you look in Revelations or in the Bible even, it says that there will be no more water but fire next time.
And science has proven to us, given every opportunity, that even if it's chancy, you know, even if it's a button they might push or something they might do that would endanger the larger population, their egos are bigger than whatever perceived danger they've got, and they will plunge ahead and do it.
So if there's a button to push, my friend, they will push it.
If there's a vial to open, they will open it.
And we can, I guess, argue about the advisability of doing stem cell research or any other sort of on-the-edge research, all we want, but they are going to move ahead whether or not we like it.
It kind of blurs science and science fiction and moves back and forth and can be anything at any time, which is something that people learn after a while.
When they first hear the program, they're kind of confused by what we're doing.
unidentified
But getting to know you on the show, it's like I know you.
Okay, here's what I would say in furtherance about the weather, and I've said this many times.
I'm going to say it again.
The weather is changing.
The change is already underway.
It's going to be a profound change.
And we should not argue about whether it's occurring any longer because even the experts now agree it is occurring.
What we should do is begin to plan for it so that whatever is going to occur, we can make it through to the other side.
In other words, if the farm belt begins to fail, we need to begin making alternative plans right now.
And maybe, unlike other civilizations that have come and gone and have been decimated by weather changes, short, fast weather changes that we appear to be on the edge of right now, our civilization has a chance of making it through.
Well, I imagine it's going to be something like that is going to, I think, mainly people like yourself, you know, long-haul truck drivers.
And I can absolutely understand why you would want it.
unidentified
Well, I tell you, Art, the way these trucks are built with so much fiberglass in the cabs and stuff anymore, it's really tough to get anything on AM radio.
You know, I have a real problem with Over Unity because I don't think it's possible, or at least I've not yet seen it demonstrated, even at the toy level.
I don't want to hear talk about it.
I don't want to see drawings.
I want to see something that actually demonstrates over Unity.
unidentified
These people have on the website that I sent you along with the email, they show you demonstrating these two machines that they have.
One is a generator and one is a motor.
And it's really interesting.
I mean, if you just look at the website, if you can find that email.
I mean, let me just lay it out for everybody, all right?
I'm sorry.
I don't believe it.
Overunity just is not possible.
Now, I nevertheless remain open-minded not to talk and not to drawings and not to schematics, but to a device.
And if you really have such a device, then I've got over 500 radio stations, And I'm not afraid of a damn soul.
So if you bring this device to me, and it really is over unity, I would be glad to give you five hours, four if it's real soon, five hours, though, beginning next week, of a national forum to blast your news to the entire country, in fact, to the world, and to all of the oil companies and all of the big concerns.
It would go berserk.
I really could care less.
If you've got it, and if you've really got the goods, then either ship it to me or bring it to me under armed guard.
I would be glad to check into it, and then I will give you the biggest national forum you ever saw, and you can tell everybody about it.
That's my offer.
It's a simple one.
There's no money involved.
All you've got to do is get your magical over-unity device to me, and I will put you here on the radio, and that will lead to other large media appearances, and you will get your device in front of the world.
That's the standing offer.
But don't send me talk.
Don't send me schematics.
Don't send me pictures.
Don't send me claims.
Just either send or bring a device to me that actually achieves what you say it does.
You need not leave it here.
And I will make the appropriate measurements.
Or if I'm not good enough scientifically to do it, I will have others step in who are.
And I will give you the national form that will let you just tell the whole world about it.
Now, that's the best offer I can think of.
It really is the best offer I can think of.
So there it is, out on the table.
And we need not have any more talk about all of this.
If you've got the goods, you get them here.
I'll get it on the air.
You'll be a billionaire.
Maybe just a few months, but you'll be a billionaire.
So that should either, you know, let's stop the talk and do the walk.
I'm Ardell.
This is Coast to Coast A.M., where if you'll stay tuned, Richard C. Hoagland is coming up next.
Once to NASA, now revered in the halls with, oh, you can't turn a corner in a hall at NASA without seeing a bust of Richard C. Ogland.
A science advisor once to Walter C. Cronkite, an Angstrom Science Award winner, and for years a very important science adjunct to this program, here tonight saying, well, he said to me on the phone, he solved the mystery of Mars.
Yeah, we actually probably have solved a lot of things.
And what I want to do tonight is to set up a mystery.
And as we go from half hour to half hour, unfold segments of it, and then maybe halfway through, because I know we're going to do an abbreviated show tonight, we'll give everybody the bottom line.
Because obviously you have now joined the pleasured ranks of those of us that actually look through real glass and at real mirrors, not at images and, you know, JPEGs and all that stuff.
But I'm just so thrilled that you have joined the ranks of those of us for years who have frozen our buttons off in the middle of the winter to go out and look at Orion and other things.
And there are all kinds of neat mysteries.
And we will probably not have time tonight.
But at some point, I need to introduce you to how to marry some of your gadgets to your telescope.
There are people, for instance, there is a guy in Boston who works at the planetarium, which was the kind of competitor to the planetarium I worked at when I was in New England in Springfield.
And he has published in Sky and Telescope several articles.
I guess he's got a book now, and he's got a website, for how to shoot with a really relatively small telescope amazing views, not just of the big celestial objects, moon, planets, stuff like that, but he captures things like the space station and the shuttle and produces recognizable images through this shimmering sea of air we call the atmosphere.
Well, it's following the space station, for example, which is very bright and very easy to see.
It comes roaring over us here.
And it's bright.
It's as bright almost as Venus.
And if you take a very strong pair of binoculars, you can even see the solar panels on it.
You can see the shape.
And so it's very exciting.
My only problem, Richard, I mean, my advantage is I've got this webcam, so if I can get something married, I can put the shots up on the web and just let it continue to scroll.
Well, because when you start out looking at it with the eye and then with a telescope, like for instance Percival Old did at the turn of the century, he thought he saw this faint webbing of artificial lines that indicate that there was somebody home, somebody building something, somebody digging something.
Which were actually discovered in 1877 by an Italian astronomer named Scaparelli.
Well, for 30, 40 years, up until the first couple of decades of this century, a little longer, everybody was intensely debating the canals on Mars like they have debated now Sidonia and the face and all that, because it looked as if with the technology we had, pretty good telescopes, that somebody might be doing massive global engineering.
Which is kind of the way the whole face on Mars thing is now divided.
Half the folks think they're there, and somebody built them or built it, and there's an ancient civilization in ruins, and the other half thinks that us half, you know, because obviously I'm in that camp, are totally out to lunch.
Well, as this debate has evolved, we suddenly entered the space age.
This was now in 1957.
And in the early mid-60s, in 65, we, the United States, the world, because we represented the world at that time, because the Russians had not been able to achieve this, we sent our first unmanned spacecraft to Mars called Mariner 4.
And in July of 1965, on July 14th, Bastille Night, I created and orchestrated and conducted and hosted a five-hour show art, which was nominated for a Peabody, a radio show,
which involved people from JPL and people from Harvard and people like Alan Hynek in an auditorium that I had set up in Springfield, Massachusetts, to celebrate and to inquire over the flyby of Mars by this first little unmanned spacecraft, Mariner 4.
And it was that spacecraft which basically killed the Martian legend.
It basically drove the spike into the whole Lowell idea of valiant Martians digging canals, preserving their dying civilization, etc., because it gave us the cratered Mars.
It gave us the Mars which has basically no atmosphere.
There's no air there.
It's 1 100th of the air we're breathing.
And it's the wrong kind of air.
It's CO2 as opposed to oxygen.
And it gave us this battered, ancient, cratered, lunar-type landscape that basically, in one fell swoop, killed all of the romance and the visions and the fantasies and the projections of literally dozens of generations of people who had come before because it showed us that Mars, if it ever had been alive, it was now dead.
It's dead, Jim, and it really seemed dead.
And then in 71, when we sent our first spacecraft to orbit called Mariner 9, the Martian legend kind of did a revival.
It did a renaissance.
Because that spacecraft, which went into orbit as opposed to just flying by in a few hours, it photographed over the next couple, three years, the whole planet at pretty good resolution.
And it showed us that Mars was this amazing place that had incredible towering mountains, vast waters that looked like they had carved riverbeds and canyons.
And it had polar caps, it had water, it had definite water ice.
It had all the essences of potential life that had long gone.
That maybe once it had been alive, it had been like the Earth, but in the ensuing billions of years of solar system history, it had taken a divergent path and it had died and we had not.
And then everyone said, well, now we can do comparative planetology.
We can take a look at Mars and see how planets die.
And that was the condition that existed, that kind of, well, there was something there a long time ago, but nothing now, until Viking.
Viking was 76.
And I, of course, was one of the privileged few to actually be at JPL the night we landed the first Viking spacecraft.
And I was sitting there at literally dawn.
It was 5 o'clock in the morning Pacific time as we're landing on another planet for the first time.
And those first pictures come in.
And on my right is Gene Roddenberry, my dear friend who created Star Trek.
And on my left is Eric Burgess, who, along with Arthur Clark and others, formed the British Interplanetary Society.
And Eric actually wrote the first paper on unmanned probes to Mars way back in the 1930s.
and there were like a thousand plus other people, newsmen and space groupies and scientists.
It was just one of those incredible moments when everybody was looking at the dream.
I mean, we really didn't know what we would see when those first pictures came in.
We knew we had a cold and kind of desolate place, but there was hope.
I mean, Sagan, for instance, who was there, had insisted that the cameras have a function that allowed them to record movement because his greatest fear was that we would land during the day, we'd look out at, let's say, a desolate Arizona, New Mexico kind of landscape, and at night, you know, there'd be rumblings and shufflings and the IMUs, the little gyroscopes and accelerometers in the spacecraft would kind of detect footsteps.
But there'd be no lights and there'd be no way to catch whoever was coming up and sniffing around the lander to see if anybody was home.
So there was a feature built into the camera where you could basically take a series of still images and then play them back to detect motion.
Sure.
Like a motion detector.
Sure.
My first picture came in.
It was of the footpad, which, I mean, I had argued myself with the engineers.
Why the hell do you go all the way to Mars, sit down, and take your first picture looking down at the ground?
That, plus they wanted to see that there was some possibility that the spacecraft could sink into deep sand dunes.
And, you know, we got this vision that they'd have this picture of the last, you know, the last few instance of picture showing the foot pads and the spacecraft being swallowed by dust and sand.
So, in other words, they see where the foot is, they get to look at the foot, and they test the resolution, they look at something recognizable at the end of the day.
And it went from left to right, and we literally sat there, 1,500 of us, holding our breath, watching this picture of Mars come in line by line by line.
And it was, well, the really neat thing was when the whole thing had finished, Roddenberry, who's sitting to my right, leaps up and yells, cut, print.
Particularly, well, in places like Sedona, which is northern Arizona, which has red rocks.
I mean, I've always had this quiet suspicion, you know, as our work has progressed and we figured out that maybe we're from Mars, that the reason a lot of people like to hang out in northern Arizona is because they're really secret Martians and they like to land stay.
And they are bombarding not only the Earth, but other planets.
There are huge problems with that model, and we don't have time to get into them tonight, but there's a possible way to salvage the model if they're not solid chunks, but dust clouds of ice crystals, so they have no mass, but they have enough water to feed the second theory, which is a report from a British astrophysicist.
Actually, he's Indian, named Wick Rama Singh.
I just love saying his name.
He's a friend of Fred Hoyle's, who was a very brilliant British astrophysicist who propounded the steady-state model of the universe back in the 50s and 60s.
And Wick Rama Singh and Hoyle together have worked for years on the idea of panspermia, that life exists in interplanetary space between the planets, even interstellar space, and that from time to time we are bombarded by comets or cometary stuff that seeds the Earth with viruses and other small life forms.
That in fact life on Earth began because it was seeded from outer space.
And he, at a conference in England recently in the last couple, three days, stood up and pointed to an experiment that I guess he was involved in involving a stratospheric balloon that was lofted up to like 40, 45 miles, something like that.
And there's life because there's no light down there, so you'd think there'd be no life, but it turns out that they have a life chain, a metabolic chain based on metabolizing things like hydrogen sulfide bacteria.
So you have even complicated guys like clams and tube worms and relatively sophisticated life forms living off this interior energy of the Earth.
So we were talking about life and possible life on Mars.
And this Wickrama Singh thing, you know, life, the little bacteria in the stratosphere, and the Louis-Frank thing, the possible little mini-comets, in fact, is tied in to the potential solution to the mystery of Mars.
So we're going to come back to this, folks.
You've got to stay tuned because later in the evening, we're going to tie these two things, which I did not know were connected, back to what we think we have now discovered.
Well, this segues nicely because, as I said, in 76, there I was at the JPL with Gene on my right, Eric on my left, and 1,500 friends watching Viking land.
Now, Viking was billed by NASA as a search for life on Mars for a good reason.
The idea was you'd land this VW sci spacecraft by remote control because it's eight minutes away by the speed of light, so there was no hands-on law.
We literally were getting our data eight minutes after everything had happened.
So it either happened or it didn't.
There was not a damn thing anybody could do about it.
So we get the pictures, and then a couple days after, the little hoppers in the top of the spacecraft opened up, and an arm reached out, a kind of a remote robotic arm, and the computer,
under pre-stored ground commands from JPL, picked up the soil sample, brought it back, and then dumped the soil in the containers on the top of the spacecraft, kind of equilibrating between the first and the second and third experiment.
So everybody got their samples, and then the instruments went to work.
Now, what NASA had done is to go to TRW, which is a major aerospace company in Southern California, and they had built into about a cubic foot of space.
A cubic foot is about, what, the size of your monitor maybe?
They had built an incredible complex remote-controlled biochemistry laboratory.
One cubic foot, and set it 40, 50 Million miles away to Mars and set it down on the surface.
And the idea was that this laboratory would sniff and sample and examine the stuff going on in the three chambers and report from three different experiments whether there were any microbes in the soil.
Well, according to the story, I was there, so I can tell you what happened to the other end of this pipeline 25 years ago.
The three experiments did their thing, and all of them reported positive results art.
Every experiment that NASA did in this gadget said there's life on Mars.
And those of us who were watching were absolutely dumbfounded because the experiments had been designed to look for opposite kinds of chemistry, and you couldn't have a positive registering life if there was opposite stuff going on in the soil.
In other words, it was like having a yes and a no answer simultaneously.
And then there was a fourth experiment called a GCMS, which was basically designed to measure organics, to measure the dead bodies.
On Earth, when we have life going on, we have hydrocarbons involved, hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, things like that.
And there's organic residues left over, dead bodies.
This gadget was designed to sniff the soil down to the parts per billion level, that's what it be, and detect the residue of life, the dead bodies.
Well, it didn't detect any dead bodies.
It didn't detect any organic chemistry at all.
And so NASA officially said that the three experiments, which had, quote, positively detected life, couldn't.
That in fact it was what they called funny chemistry, having to do with a very weird surface, a highly oxidized, a super oxidized surface of Mars, given its peculiar history and environment.
And in fact, it was only chemistry, it wasn't life, and everybody go home and nobody got excited.
Well, one guy wouldn't go home.
His name is Gil Levin, Dr. Gilbert Levin.
I think I've discussed him a couple times on your show briefly.
And he ran a company called Biospherics Inc., and he and his co-investigator have insisted for 25 years that their experiment, in fact, did detect microbial life in the soils of Mars, and NASA simply changed the rules in mid-game.
Well, that's a huge political discussion, and I don't want to kind of get off in the politics side.
But what he has been doing is he has been pursuing every possible loophole to try to counter the official NASA position that we didn't discover life, or his experiment didn't discover life.
Now, his experiment was called the labeled release experiment.
And the theory was as follows.
You basically put the soil in the chamber, and in his gadget, his little vial, you then dropped in a little nutrient, which was called affectionately chicken soup.
It was actually a complex organic compound.
And the idea was that the little beasties, the little microbes in the soil, if they were there, if they were alive, they would glom onto the chicken soup, they would eat it, and they would then respire, meaning they would outgas, exhale carbon dioxide like microbes do here on Earth.
The difference was this chicken soup was laced with radioactive carbon-14.
So as they exhaled their carbon dioxide, the gas would float up to the top of the chamber, and there was a little radiation detector up there that was supposed to measure the amount of radioactive carbon locked up as CO2.
And when everything worked as advertised, I mean, instrumentally, engineeringly, this was an incredible tour de force.
I mean, we did an incredible job in 1976 because everything worked.
The only thing that didn't work was the interpretation, the scientific reception of what these gadgets were trying to tell us.
Because what happened in all these experiments, but in particularly in Levin's experiment, is that the label release thing worked.
The gas came off, CO2.
The radiation detector measured the carbon-14, which is how it knew how much gas was coming off.
And over the next nine weeks, Art, nine weeks, that's two months plus one week, right?
This thing continued to evolve.
Now, they did controls.
They then dumped it out, you know, flushed it out, put new soil in, started it up again, they got the same reaction, and then they raised the temperature to about 160 degrees centigrade, like an oven.
And that was supposed to kill the microbes, to sterilize them, and you would then see if you had any reactions after that, and the reactions went away.
Because they couldn't detect in that fourth instrument any organics.
And they claimed that that was their control and that if they couldn't detect the organic residues of little microbes, then there couldn't be microbes and therefore there couldn't be life and it had to be some kind of weird oxidizing chemistry.
Well, Levin spent 25 years, a quarter of a century, almost as long as I've been pursuing the Sidonia thing.
He and his team have been pursuing the idea that they did detect life, that NASA politically didn't want to admit it for whatever reasons, and he's been up against a very stiff uphill climb.
In 1999, a guy named Joseph Miller, who's a neurobiologist and a circadian rhythm expert, you know what circadian rhythms are, right?
Yeah, well, for folks who don't, every biological organism appears to have an internal clock.
And even when you isolate organisms ranging from microbes to bacteria to mussels to frogs to us, in the dark, away from light and dark, there is this internal clock which tick, tick, Tick, tick, tick, and seems to somehow know the planet's rotation, the day of the planet you're on.
So this guy, Miller, somehow had a chance to look at Webin's data 25 years later, back in 99.
And he was struck by the fact that as the gas came out and was measured by the radioactive detector, it showed little peaks and valleys.
Bing, ping, ping.
And they looked like they corresponded to the Martian day.
So he said, oh my God, maybe.
So he went to Nest and he said, get me all this Viking data.
And they said, well, Dr. Miller, we kind of have a problem there because we lost it.
And so they scurried around and they finally found, he thought it was on one of the NASA websites, like everything is supposed to be out there somewhere?
It wasn't.
It wasn't anywhere to be found.
Now, he's assuming a benign interpretation.
You know me.
I think they're maybe a less benign, but let's not get sidetracked.
He finally got some people to get him the original magnetic tapes.
And lo and behold, they had been programmed in an arcane machine code that was so primitive compared to what we're using now that the programmers had died.
There was no way to get the data off the tapes.
So then he gets hold of Levin.
Fortunately, Levin had made paper copies of everything and was able to supply him with this.
And together, over the last year or so, it's two years since 99, two and a half years, they have been working to restore this data.
And Miller has been subjecting it to the kind of controls and statistical analyses that his profession brings to it, neurobiology and circadian rhythm studies.
And last week in San Diego at a major conference, he published a result which is pretty astounding because he claims that what Levin has found is evidence, unequivocal evidence, of biological activity in the soil which exhibits the circadian rhythm of the 24.66 hour Martian day.
Well, in the context of your discussion with Stephen last night and in some of the things you were doing in the first hour, we should care because planets are not immortal.
Planets can die.
And in this incredible, vibrant, living world right next door and something terrible happened, or a series of something terribles, and we could be inadvertently doing stuff to our world that would bring on the same catastrophe.
Yeah, I think certainly it's fair to say if it once had the water on it that we think that it had, or even that we know that it had, then there could have been big life there.
There could have been complex life there.
And if there was, I mean, you're absolutely right.
We need to know for that reason.
In addition, there are a lot of people talking about the possibility of terraforming Mars in case we might need it.
And, of course, there's, you know, is there a heart that is so dead that it doesn't want to know if it's alone?
Because as Carl was so fond of saying, if we find so much as a microbe next door on Mars, it means the galaxy, the universe, is teeming with life.
And, of course, it would back up with the science, the claims of all the UFO people that there are folks visiting and claims like us that there might have been an ancient civilization there.
And it would be an extraordinary, even to find a microbe.
But what you're going to hear tonight as we get through the rest of our mystery is that we're thinking now there's a lot bigger stuff than microbes.
And what's amazing is that what we think may have happened to Mars may have left only the microbes alive.
Everything else that we think could have been there may now have been deceased.
Well, you know, going to Mars or any other planet is a chancy thing to do, and there are going to be failures, but there does seem to be a very disproportionately large number with regard to Mars.
When you go to the big planets like Jupiter, Saturn, they have huge radiation fields.
And we've got a Galileo, which we're going to have to go out there and beat to death with a stick because it's just going and going and going.
In fact, they're going to dive it into the atmosphere in a couple of years to permanently get rid of it so it won't clutter up the radio channels and possibly collide with Europa.
The fact is that going to Mars, which is a relatively benign place, it's right next door, it's just a little further from the sun than we are, the Russians and even us lately have had an extraordinary series of, quote, failures, boys and girls.
We've got the visuals up now to go with the discussion we're about to have.
Let me tell you how to get to them, all right?
You go to artbell.com, and when you get there, you go to program over on the left-hand side, simply go to tonight's guest info, repeating tonight's guest info there.
You will see the name Richard C. Hoagland.
The first thing you'll see is images, Mars illustrations for tonight.
Click on that.
There are going to be nine illustrations there that we're going to be talking about.
So if you start up to the web right now, you'll be able to follow along with us.
Again, artbell.com.
Go to program, tonight's guest info, and right under the name Richard C. Hoagland, you'll see the images for tonight.
Click on those and follow along with us.
Richard C., you'll be right back.
Stay right where you are.
All right, back now to Richard C. Hoagland.
Figure number one.
The first figure is sort of an introductory photograph.
What we're going to talk about for the next couple hours is the work that I and Mike Berra have been doing for about a year, quietly with a number of other colleagues, to try to put together all the pieces of the puzzle ever since 71, since the first Mariner 9 images that told us we had a place that was maybe like the Earth once and was nowhere like the Earth now.
I mean, the temperatures on Mars are extraordinarily cold now.
I mean, we know they occur roughly every couple of years when Mars comes around closest to the sun, and we only really get to see them when we're closest to Mars, when it's closest to the sun, which happens roughly every 17 or 15 years.
It's sufficient, and plus you're tilted, you know, that hemisphere, the southern hemisphere, is tilted toward the sun.
So you get an enhanced effect.
On Earth, you know, we have a tilt, 23.5 degrees.
Mars is tilted 25 degrees.
The tilt creates seasons, right?
On Earth, we're closer and tilted toward the sun in the winter in the northern hemisphere, so the two things kind of moderate.
Even though our orbit is pretty circular, it's not exactly a circle.
Mars is very elliptical.
It's quite elliptical, egg-shaped.
And so you can get millions of miles closer to the Sun on Mars in the southern hemisphere summer than you can in the northern hemisphere winter.
So the summers on Mars are warmer, and the winters are colder by a lot than they would be if the Mars orbit was circular.
So the dust storm that we're seeing erupted from a place called Hellas, and like the one back when Mariner 9 went into orbit in 71, it quickly spread around the entire planet, so for weeks you couldn't see anything but dust.
We had an incredible view and all kinds of neat, mysterious things have happened.
But the view you see on the screen now, for everybody watching, you know, on web TV or on their computer, that is the view of what we now think Mars may have looked like hundreds of millions of years ago.
And what we've been trying to do is to piece together the puzzle that would allow us to say some very certain things that had never been said before about Mars.
And by the end of the evening, we hope to be able to tell you how we got there.
This all comes down to water.
It all comes down to where do the water go.
That's why Mars Observer and Mars Surveyor were sent.
Because NASA, since 71, has seen these incredible evidences of ancient water, you know, vast canyons carved by rushing floods and streams and tributaries and ancient rivers, all bone dry now, all sitting there under their 100th atmosphere of Earth.
Coming from water that is being melted underground.
Because remember, the temperatures refer to the surface, air temperature.
But you know, living in the desert that it can be relatively comfortable standing up, but if you put an egg on your sidewalk out in front of the house, it can actually fry.
Even if you had water, as soon as it hits the air, it's going to evaporate.
So if you have a liquid pool, it'll go poof.
It'll disappear within minutes.
But if you wet the ground from underneath, and the ground has certain properties, and we'll get into that in a minute, you might be able to have liquid water that would stay liquid, wetting the ground like a sponge.
You know how you can wet a sponge from underneath and it seeps up through?
It would stay liquid for hours or maybe even half a day before it evaporated, depending upon the kind of soil and where the water was coming from, how deep.
So we looked at these last year and we said, holy, whatever, it's liquid water.
And as soon as we said that, NASA said, you guys are crazy.
It's dust.
These are dust avalanches flowing downhills, et cetera, end of discussion.
And a whole bunch of people in the so-called anomalous community.
And we've had now geologists, we've had Ron Nix look at this, we've had a lot of other people look at it.
There have been a lot of independent investigators, people like Efren Palermo and Jill England, who are two people I really want to cite tonight because they did some amazingly good scientific research which allowed us to create the paper that we have published on Enterprise.
Richard, you can even see in this photograph some of these downhill shadings which are almost dried up if you imagine it's water and at the very bottom it's darker as it certainly would be if water if it was liquid.
Okay, everybody who's ever lived in the Midwest or in the mountains knows that you have a terrible problem, the so-called bathtub or bathroom sink stain problem, which is caused by calcium carbonate.
If you were to have mineral-laden springs underground soaking up through the sand and the dust and wetting it and looking darker because it's wet and then drying, what you would get as a residue after that process had gone would be the minerals that are left.
You get the white stuff and you can see some of these streaks now instead of being dark, they're light.
Well, we were pretty convinced that we were looking at liquid water.
And then other people picked up the cudgels.
As I said, Efren Palermo put up a website and he started culling through thousands of Mars images for the stains, as we've called them.
And he's got an incredible website, which is linked to Enterprise, you know, if you go down a little bit, where he mapped, you know, he basically looked all over and he put up images and images and images.
And finally, I got together with him this past spring, and I said, Ephraim, have you made a map, a global distribution of these images?
Because if we're looking at water art, our idea was it should be around the equator because that's where it's warmer.
Sure.
It might even be seasonal.
And if you looked over enough of Malin's pictures covering a couple of Martian years, you may be able to decode all that.
Well, he set up a global Mercator projection, and he involved a very bright young gal named Jill England, who is a statistician.
She has a whiz at mathematics.
And what she has done is gone through, get this, all of the 70 plus thousand images from Mars that Malin has given us and done a statistical analysis, a first-rate statistical analysis, which they, by the way, have put into a paper that they're publishing at the Mars Society conference in, I believe it's in a few days in Denver, the annual conference of people who basically want to send manned missions back to Mars.
You've got a cluster, a big cluster of stains in one place on Mars.
And then if you looked at Mars as a globe, and we'll get to that in a moment, 180 degrees away on the other side of the planet where the rest of the stains are.
For those of you that don't have computers, the two areas 180 degrees apart at both poles of Mars are just filled with these red dots that would indicate some sort of stain images, serious stain images.
Elsewhere on the planet, you've got mostly green, which means non-stain images.
Well, the thing that is conclusive that it's got to be a fluid and most likely water is the next graphic down.
Because I'm looking at this, and I'm looking at this, and I'm suddenly thinking, oh, my God, what would give you an unmistakable bimodal double pole 180-degree signature?
And what people don't realize, you know, even though we live on Earth, even if you live near the seashore, most people don't realize that we, for a very good reason, have two high tides a day.
I mean, you're living in a desert, you wouldn't know anything about this, but presumably when you were out in Okinawa or places like that, you watched the ocean.
But, you know, we don't have to get into the details, but on every body where you would have tides, Hold on, Richard.
He's right.
We have a high tide on this side, which is facing the moon.
I understand, I think, the physics behind that, but I don't understand the physics that would create a high tide on the other side of the Earth, which is not seeing the moon or the influence from the moon.
We'll ask about that.
I'm Ardell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Good morning, or afternoon, or evening, or whatever it is, wherever you are.
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This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Novels.
And for folks who don't have computers, you're going to really have to think about this mental picture.
When the moon is over any part of the Earth that has an ocean, there's a bulge of water pulled up toward the moon by the moon's gravity.
The Earth is also rotating at 1,000 miles an hour.
So even if we didn't have a moon arc, there would be a kind of an inner tube of water around the equator because of the centrifugal force effect of the rotation.
Like slinging a bucket of water around your head on an old piece of rope.
Which, in fact, I actually did one day and had very interesting results.
This was a long time ago.
Well, you know, science is experimental, and sometimes you've got to experiment.
Even if it means blowing up your mother's kitchen.
Well, that's another story, so we won't go there either tonight.
Anyway, so we're on a rotating planet, and you've got gravity plus centrifugal force.
So by the time you get to the other side of the world, which is 8,000 miles farther from the moon than the side facing the moon, the force of the moon's gravity is significantly smaller.
So the centrifugal force that's spinning up the inner tube of water can spin it up high on that side because the Earth is being pulled out from under it.
Differentially.
It's that differential force.
It's the difference between the moon pull and the centrifugal force of the rotating water on the rotating Earth.
Now, tides like this, because planets are going to orbit other bodies anywhere in the galaxy, anywhere in the universe, you will have two lobe tides, bimodal tidal distribution on any planet with tides anywhere in the universe.
I mean, I got to tell you that the emotional high, pun intended, of coming up with the answer to this and finding it was the answer to a whole series of mysteries going back to Lowell's time.
It answers so many questions.
That's why we've written this 32-page paper that we have published on Enterprise.
You just go to Enterprisemission.com or go through your website to us, and right at the very top, there's a big banner that says, attention.
You know, you're going to be swept away by the tides of Mars.
And we explain in much more detail than we can tonight how this now answers so many extraordinary mysteries of Mars, including what happened to Mars' life.
It has to be telling us about an ancient Mars, a condition, a situation where Mars was close to a big object with good gravity, which maintained those tides.
So this is the schematic of Mars before it was liberated, before it was released in this event.
And what you can see is it would rotate around the big guy, maintaining the same face toward the planet.
We think it would have rotated around around 24 hours, kind of like it's rotational period now, that that's the ancient relic rotation revolution period.
And that's where we think the Earth's atmosphere came from.
In fact, we think the planetary atmospheres, so-called silicate worlds, Earth-like worlds, all comes from volcanoes belching out their guts from the inside on the outside and exhaling gases that then form the atmospheres.
Then on Earth, life modified the atmosphere because these primitive atmospheres would be CO2.
But ultimately, for the last 500 plus million years, life on Earth has transformed the CO2 into oxygen, nitrogen, things like that.
So our atmosphere is very atypical of the normal planetary process.
But in terms of its ancient origins, it would have been the same on Mars.
Big volcanoes mean lots of belching, mean lots of atmosphere.
So as you wind up with Mars in this tidal configuration, you wind up augmenting the internal heating process, particularly if then Planner's also written that this big guy had another moon.
Now, you remember what's going on in the Jovian system right now, where you have these four moons, the so-called Galilean satellites, and they're nudging each other gravitationally, and they wind up inputting energy into Io, and it's got all that volcanic activity we found back in 1979 with Voyager.
Similar situation could have gone on with one other moon in the Planet 5 system.
All it would take is one other moon, and there'd be enough tidal disturbance of the rotation revolution that you'd get, basically it's like bending a wire back and forth, where the wire gets hot.
The energy gets dumped into the interior.
It's belched up in volcanoes.
The volcanoes add to the gaseous atmosphere.
So you get a very dense atmosphere, much denser than the one now.
You get liquid water for potentially hundreds of millions of years.
So what then happened is, according to Tom and according to our separate calculations, either the big guy exploded, or that's our next diagram down, or it got collided by the other planet, so-called planet K in his model.
Either way, you would have had an incredible detonation right on Mars' doorstep.
And on Mars, there's a huge southern hemisphere that's absolutely peppered with craters, shoulder-to-shoulder craters.
This diagram demonstrates how we think the craters formed.
It's the debris from the explosion of the planet.
What that did, and that's our last diagram, is to release Mars back into a solar orbit all by itself.
In this model, which I'm really thinking is real, not only would you have the planet deformed into those two bulges in the crust, the oceans, the water would have collected are in two oceans clustered over Tharsis and over Arabia.
What happens when the planet blows up or it gets collided?
You suddenly lose the gravitational tidal lock.
Suddenly, this condition, which has existed for, you know, maybe half a billion years, is released.
The gravity field suddenly goes away.
The tides of Mars are gone.
And the water is released to rush at headlong velocity, hundreds of miles an hour, back to the lowest places on Mars, which is in between the two oceans.
We see these incredible huge channels.
That's why when we talked the other day and you said they just found these incredible big channels, guess where they are?
They're right at the edges of this ocean.
They're where the waters would have rushed for 1,000 miles, 150 miles wide, and carved incredible channels in the crust because of the vacuum forces of that much water rushing at that speed over the surface under Mars gravity.
And what we're now saying is that the water that we're seeing in these stains opposite on both these poles, these tidal oceans, are the ancient seabed waters coming up from underneath the ground where there used to be the ancient oceans.
And all it would do is, remember, the only place water can go is up.
If you melt it, it Will flow upwards.
It will percolate upwards.
So, if you had ancient seas sitting over two places, you know, think of two round oceans on both sides of Mars, and then they're suddenly released, and the atmosphere goes away, you have massive impacts, most of the water and the atmosphere is literally vaporized and blown into space, we're talking a catastrophe of unimaginable biblical proportions.
Under the current Martian conditions, it would be very hard to maintain liquid water, right?
At the recent Lunar Planetary Science Conference in Houston, two Russian guys from the Russian Academy of Sciences, from the Institute of Geochemistry, proposed a model where if you add salts to water under Mars conditions, it can be liquid even well below 10, 20, 30 degrees, below zero.
Sure.
And what would you find on the seabeds of two ancient oceans, Art?
Oh, it's got to be close to the surface in these regions.
Now, remember, any scientific theory, and again, I want to call people's attention, if you go to the Enterprise website, you follow the links at the top of the main page, you'll go to the paper.
We have it in PDF form because, Art, we are so convinced this is real that we're submitting this to scientific peer-reviewed journals to be published under that process.
Now, it's going to take a long time because you can't send them simultaneously.
You've got to send them one at a time.
So you get rejection, rejection, rejection.
Somebody is going to publish this in a peer-reviewed journal.
It is that good.
It answers every single mystery.
Now, your question, where do you drill?
Obviously, go to the two places where you have stains.
And that's where you put your man base.
That's where you drill because that's where the water is, and you can easily filter out the salt.
That is trivial, all right?
But you've got lots of water there if this model is correct.
It's trivial, trivial, because if there's that much water, and we're talking a lot of water, residual water, then everything that Robert Zubrin and the others that want to go Mars direct and the fast and cheap and not the massive $400 to $500 billion mission, but their $30 billion maybe is totally, totally doable.
That's the first fallout of this model.
And let me tell you why the stage is so dark.
I mean, the deeper we get into the model, pun intended, deeper title model, the better this gets.
And for those people who can't download PDF files, I've been getting a few faxes like, what the hell do you mean putting that PDF up there?
We're doing that because that's what we're submitting to the journals.
Tomorrow, next day, sometime, we will have an HTML version on the web, web-friendly for all the web teams.
The reason this is such a powerful model, it's so amazing, and I want everybody in the planetary community out there, it's going to be anomalous, all the people following the Sidonia, you know, up and down, back and forth, to basically think about this.
Because if we are right, this is not only the keys to the kingdom of putting man and women on Mars now, cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap.
George, are you listening?
But it's the key to solving what happened to Mars in the past and whether there was anybody home.
And that's the thing that I'm so excited about because this now allows me in Heritage to lay out, to preview tonight, but to lay out in detail the past history of Mars and what happened there that paralleled what happened here.
Because that's the same number as it took for the Earth to create all the advanced life we enjoy on Earth tonight.
We had something called the Cambrian explosion of biological diversity 540 million years ago.
Scientists, paleontologists, biologists, evolutionary guys all say that that's when we went from little bacteria that cover the Earth to suddenly a huge explosion of evolution where all the advanced families, all the advanced forms we find now, all so-called body plans of big guys suddenly appear.
And the Swedes think that it may have happened in as little as 5 million years.
And it set the blueprint for everything that's happened in the last 540 million years.
Huge mystery, and I will try to solve that one in Heritage.
That's too big to tackle tonight.
But the interesting thing is that from our separate work on Mars, it looks like Mars was captured about the same time as advanced life on Earth was basically appearing.
And that during this specific period, the one that you identify there and here, they made their way from there to here, being aware of what was happening.
Now, last year when we found the water stains and published them, we also found some other things that frankly were so unbelievable that I kind of buried them in the middle of one of our reports.
We found things that look for all the world like huge fossilized life forms.
I'm talking huge.
I'm talking enormous life forms, ancient skeletons.
And we have them on our website.
I don't have the link up there right tonight because we published them a year ago.
And I can't prove it yet because I haven't talked to him, you know, but I'm beginning to suspect because Arthur C. has been following what we're doing at Enterprise, I think that that's where he got the idea that the glass tunnels may be big ancient fossils of worms or living worms.
Now, I can grant him that they might be fossils.
They might not be Lincoln tunnels or Holland tunnels like we've been saying.
They might be organic forms, but they might be ancient organic forms.
Huge things that could not exist on Earth, by the way.
Jurassic Park, I think, could not happen now because the gravity...
If I'm right, when these planets blew themselves to pieces or collided and the fragments were scattered to the winds, the physics of the solar system went down a peg.
So big stuff can no longer Exist.
But back in the heyday of the solar system, when everything was hunky-dory, you had huge biological developments on, if we're right, two worlds, not just one.
And we're seeing in these photographs some of the evidence that Arthur is jumping up and down about.
Now, I don't think they're currently alive.
I think they are dead.
They're fossilized.
But if that's true, it means that you could find a tremendous panoply of the whole biological spectrum on Mars waiting for human expeditions like you have here on Earth.
And it isn't going to be hard to find the big stuff because they're huge.
They are enormous if we're right.
And we published them, as I said, last year.
You probably may have missed those images, but they're just astonishing.
If you had big life, and if you had enough time to develop all the incredible intricacies, say that later tonight, intricacies of life on Mars, as we did here, what's to stop it, Art, from going to intelligence?
What this now gives us, and I'm really believing this, guys, it gives us a basis to say that the ruins we see at Sidonia and all those other places is indigenous Martian intelligence before the catastrophe.
And if that was true, and they knew their planet was going to buy the farm, where would they go?
Where would be the only other place in the whole solar system you could go?
Now, we've got to adjust the time scales because there are parts of the time periods that don't fit yet, but that's because we haven't thought long and deep enough.
I mean, this has all kind of come to a head in the last month.
We've been really working on this paper, and I'm so proud of it because Mike and I, you know, have really put our heart into it.
We've got, it's 32 pages, 74 references of all the current things that have been found and all the little pieces you have to put together in the puzzle to support and document your model.
But, Richard, if there was large life on Mars and ultimately intelligent life on Mars, particularly life that could have made it to Earth, shouldn't there be far more remnants available to see, even if they're drastically misshapen and almost gone, just as there would be a New York City to see, sort of in a mangled form for millions, if not billions, of years.
Well, Arthur's very much alive, and he's going to have one hell of a good time because he sent an email, which I've got, to the project manager at Lockheed Martin the day it was launched.
And he said, I am not quite willing to believe in artifacts yet, but go find them.
And I think that's his tongue-in-cheek way of saying that he knows more than he's telling.
And he's basically giving everybody a hint that they have to be there.
Now, what will his spacecraft do that will test the tidal model?
Okay, one is called TESS, which is a thermal imaging system.
It's going to give us surface composition data with much higher resolution than the Mars observer in the infrared.
So it'll give us materials.
What stuff is made of down there?
Number two is an instrument called GRS, or Gamma Ray Spectrometer.
It's going to basically look at gamma rays, which are very high-energetic electromagnetic radiation, very high energy, that are emitted by nuclear events.
And what it's going to look for is the interaction of cosmic rays, because Mars is daved by cosmic rays like the Earth is.
And what that does is generate secondary emission from certain elements.
It can look at like about 20 elements, from hydrogen up through silicon and aluminum and things like that.
So it's going to map with this gamma-ray gadget the distribution of elements on the surface.
It's going to look at the hydrogen.
Now, what is the most likely form that you will find hydrogen on any planet?
A key prediction of this model tonight, Art, on your show and in our paper, is that when Odyssey gets there and begins mapping in December with the gamma-ray instrument, it will find two anomalous bimodal pools of hydrogen on both sides of the planet, Sarsis and Arabia, and almost nothing in between.
You can't buy one and do it in your garage, thank God.
We think the hyperdimensional physics model gives you more than enough energy to blow a planet up.
And if that is true, when Odyssey gets there and begins measuring the radioactives on the surface, if the planet was destroyed and the material splatted on the southern hemisphere, there should be very weird radioactive signatures still there.
I forget all the elements, but we have them in the paper, all right?
Those should be incredible crystal-clear signatures of an anomalous nuclear-class event, because blowing up a planet involves nuclear energy level energies, and they should be splattered all over Mars, and that's what the GRS and Maria would find and map if, in fact, that's true.
Now, why would that be useful to a manned Mars mission?
Because if this all took place 65 million years ago, which is just yesterday, some of those isotopes could still be hot, Art.
And they might be too hot to land near, so you don't want to land where there's a big radioactive thing.
So that's why Maria, I think, is being carried on Odyssey.
Because they're measuring the environment to basically refine the model.
My guest is Richard C. Hoagland, and he's laid it out for you what he thinks the mystery of Mars was and is, and what it would mean for us and might mean for us relatively soon if we get off our butts and get on the way back to Mars.
We'll be right back.
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This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
And the water in between, because of the way the tide, we have a diagram in the paper that shows how the force lines go into the planet at right angles to the tidal line.
And by the way, these so-called tunnels that we found, the glass tunnels, which are all Helder-Schilder, they now, if that was a living site, if that was a city, as we say, and there are other places around Mars, but that one is the one we've looked at, obviously the hardest, they would have to have water, right?
At the moment of collision, when half that planet got hit by the explosion, I've calculated, based on models which are, again, referenced in the paper, the amount of seismic energy that would have been imparted to Mars.
I called Mike and I said, okay, Mike, I've got this chemistry.
What happens if I wet it?
What do I get?
And he said, oh, you get, and then he gave me the equations of what you would get.
The water coming up underneath, even had a salt in it, interacting with the sulfur-rich surface stuff, would produce sulfuric acid, which would then react with the iron.
There's a lot of iron, right?
That's why it's red.
Sure.
To produce iron sulfide, which is pitch black.
So I think the stains are pitch black iron sulfide from the surface sulfur iron materials being wetted by water from underground.
Then over time, five years, ten years, twenty years, the little bit of oxygen that's released by the ultraviolet working on the CO2 would oxidize the iron sulfide back into iron oxides and sulfates.
So they would go back to faded ground.
Except if they're also salts in this water, the salts would remain as a whitish stain.
And if you look at that picture, number two, you can see the sequence in these images.
If people out there really demand that there be honesty, and we know there are a lot of young churches in the planetary science community who listen to your show, who look at our websites, all right?
That's why we're putting this paper in PDF form so they can download it in the conventional format.
It's kind of like when Playboy used to be so avant-garde people would take it home in a brown paper wrapper.
Can you imagine 3 o'clock in the morning, various planetary science guys tiptoeing down to their dens and logging onto Enterprise and downloading the paper?
So no one Knows, but because it's so powerful and it answers so many things, what I'm really thinking is inside the system, even if we don't get it published in a peer-reviewed journal, with the net now it's almost irrelevant.
The net is everywhere, and everybody talks to everybody, particularly with email.
So it's going to get rid.
And we're going to make sure we're going to send copies to all the key people in electronic form so they can't avoid having it come in their mailbox.
It's going to have to take root somewhere because it answers too many questions.
And if you're serious about finding out, if you're really a scientist at heart and you want to know what makes things tick, it's got to percolate down to where even if they never acknowledge that we came up with it, which I doubt they would do, like Europa, it will get used and moved and it will move process and will have missions based on this model.
And that is another political prediction tonight.
I think this is so powerful.
You know, an idea whose time has come that it will get used even if it's abused.
And we, again, you know, kind of get ignored.
But in the short term, I don't care about that because, as you said very rightly opening the show, if this is true, if the water is there in the amounts we now believe, it makes a manned mission mandated for a whole bunch of reasons and economically trivial to do.
How hard would it be, assuming that you are correct and the water is there, for a manned mission to derive everything they would need to virtually sustain life?
But you can also, if you want to live as a colony, you build greenhouses.
If you've got water, you've got hydrogen and oxygen.
We know from the Viking element list, you've got all the other stuff.
To assemble a biosphere again, the key missing element was the water.
If there's enough water there, particularly if it's mixed with other things, you filter out the other things like they're having to do in the space station.
They take up water and then they don't even recycle it.
They kind of dump it into space because they don't need to recycle it in the space station, but you'd need to recycle on a long mission to Mars or else you'd have to take a huge amount of weight.
You split it with solar energy or nuclear energy or hyperdimensional energy, you know, one of these gadgets you don't think exists, which do, and you have all the rocket fuel you'd ever want.
The point is that with water, known supply, able to be seen on the images, where you can land there on the map and know you can drill down three feet and get to it, you have licked the problem of the manned Mars problem.
And we should, in fact, you should have both of us, and we should go over this model and have him look at it with you kind of like the arbiter as to how it helps him politically accomplish his dream, which is to get men and women to Mars quick.
Well, in the long term, if we're really going to allow planet Earth, if we're going to do dumb, dumb, stupid things, you know, if the climate's going to hell in a handbasket and chemtrails are a desperate effort to paper it over and keep it all fat and happy until it's too hot, it's our lifeboat.
And I frankly think that NASA has been working on this for a long time quietly and gently, and we've published many.
very top under the "Now Hear This" we have a rectangle and we say in the rectangle, "Attention, in this year of discovery, 2001, the Enterprise mission announces the launching of a major new research initiative..." Prepare to be swept away by the tides of Mars.
Now, one of the cool things in our paper is that we have a painting by Arthur Clark, my dear friend Arthur.
About 10 years ago, he published a book called The Snows of Olympus.
That's back when computers were kind of newer and he was all jazzed by something called Vistapro, which allowed him to mock up synthetic worlds in the computer.
And he chose Mars, and he did scene after scene after scene, and he was entranced by Olympus Mons.
Olympus Mons is this huge volcano the size of Arizona or Kansas, Darcy, sitting on the top of the Tharsis bulge at 19.5 degrees, by the way.
That's also in this model.
And around this huge volcano, the biggest in the solar system, I mean, you know, one volcano the size of Arizona, I mean, give me a break.
That's enormous.
Now we understand because it was extruded in the regime of the tidal influence of Planet V. But around this huge volcano, there is an enormous cliff, Art, 22,000 feet high.
It is our proposal that this cliff was because Olympus stuck up above the ocean.
And that cliff is where the water, for hundreds of millions of years, beat against the shore, like the white cliffs of Dover, and eroded those basalt lava flows into vertical or semi-vertical cliffs.
They're actually 20, 30 degree angles, over hundreds of millions of years.
When Arthur did the snows of Olympus 10 years ago, he painted a scene, which we have in the paper, of Starsis surrounded by an ocean beating at those cliffs.
Now he claims that that's what will happen if we terraform a future Mars and melt the ice caps and the water rises.
The problem is, boys and girls, that under current conditions, the waters could never get as high as a Tharsis bulge.
And obviously, we want people to politic, the planetary science community and NASA, to look at this seriously.
And if you want to know the backstory, in other words, if all the work we've done on Sidonia means anything in this context now, you might want to take a look at the Monuments of Mars or the video series we have.
And there's an 800 number, which is 1-800-350-4639.
That's 1-800-350-4639.
And the new 2001 edition of Monuments with some of this neat stuff in it will be going to the printer in September and available probably a month after.