Art Bell hosts a wild episode blending Jeffrey Long’s NDE research—like Cougar’s 1987 "hellish" vision of spore-like humans exploiting Earth, mirroring Sumerian myths—and NASA whistleblowers Richard C. Hoagland and Peter Gersten, who allege NASA hid full high-res Face on Mars images in 2001 despite FOIA requests, possibly due to Senator John McCain’s pressure. Callers debate biblical hell vs. self-created suffering, citing Sarah’s Tibetan monk regression, while Bell stays agnostic but open to "God force" theories. The episode ties fringe science—Atlantis sonar hints, Mars anomalies—and spiritual accounts into a provocative mix of deception, cosmic purpose, and unanswered questions. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and or good morning wherever you may be across this great land of ours from the island of Guam in the west, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to the Poland worldwide on the internet.
This is post-Coast AM and I'm Art Bell.
Don't forget everybody, we're up on C-Band now.
I'll keep reminding you we've got a C-Band satellite transponder for those of you out the boonies with the big dish.
I think we can take care of you.
So, if you want to listen to W3 or GE3, whatever you want to call it, transponder 18, that's where the Fox Movie Channel is, and just set your receiver audio for 6.8 wideband audio.
There we will be.
So much to do, so little time tonight.
I really mean that we've got a very great deal to do.
Welcome to KIAK in Fairbanks, Alaska.
970 on the dial in Fairbanks, and I'd like to say hi to Pete Putnam, the GM.
Clint Michaels, operations manager.
Charlie.
Oh, I believe it is.
Oh, that's Chucker.
That's an old friend of mine.
Hey, Charlie, how you doing?
That's the Chucker from Anchorage.
As a matter of fact, I used to work there with the Chucker.
Radio is a very small world indeed.
Also, a quick note, we'll announce more about this tomorrow night, but moving to, picking up, moving crosstown to WLAC in Nashville, Tennessee, 50,000 watts on 1510.
So we've got 1510 covered on both sides of the country, as a matter of fact.
WLAC, Nashville, Tennessee, 1510, 50,000 watts, and I imagine you can hear them, oh my God, all over the place.
North to South Canada, I imagine down to the southern border.
I mean, you know, it's just one of those signals.
So we'll tell you more about that officially tomorrow night.
In a moment.
The most incred.
We're working on a number of stories at once, folks.
As you know, we're working on this Cuba story, what may well turn out or could turn out to be Atlantis.
This amazing story in Cuba.
We're working that one hard.
Linda's working it so hard right now, bumping into such interesting walls that she's unwilling to even talk about it all on the telephone.
So we're going to get an update for you on that in the next two or three days.
But something's happened with NASA.
In a moment, Richard C. Hoagland and somebody you haven't heard from in quite a while, Peter Gerston, a now defense attorney in Navajo County, previously had been the cause guy, and will tell you, but what's happened with NASA is absolutely astounding.
Coming right up.
unidentified
Shhhhhh.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 2001.
All right, well, you better sit down, curl up near the radio, for here comes a large story indeed.
Richard C. Hoagland, one-time advisor to NASA, a science advisor to Walter Cronkite, Angstrom Science Award winner, along tonight with Peter Gerston, a voice from the past, but you haven't heard him in a while.
Peter Gerston, of cause.
Peter Gerston, a defense attorney now in Navajo County, Arizona.
That's right, a defense attorney.
He always has been an attorney, but now he is defending the, well, I want to say wrongly accused.
I guess he defends everybody who he needs to defend.
Gentlemen, welcome to the program.
I'm going to turn the mic to you and let you unwind your stories.
Well, I'll tell you what, Peter, let me kind of synopsize how we got to where we are tonight by telling everyone that because of Peter's stalwart efforts in the arena of cause and legal assaults against the Freedom of Information Act vis-a-vis the DOD, and the triangle.
Remember the triangles that were flying over Phoenix and other places in the country?
And the idea was to get information from inside regarding what the DOD, the military, Army, Navy, Air Force, intelligence agencies, whatever, knew about flying triangles.
And what Peter was trying to do, in essence, with the case was to track the paper trail.
Because he'd asked in his suit for copies of emails and conversations and phone logs and in other words, tracking how the conversation flowed when these things appear and who sees what and who doesn't see what and who reports what to whom.
Well, based on that, Peter and I engaged in some conversations.
Could we do the same thing with NASA?
Could we take NASA to court?
Could we force them to, A, show us everything they've taken of Sidonia, going back, you know, decades?
And B, could we force them maybe to take important new pictures that would resolve the issue in some kind of scientific forum?
And so Peter came to New Mexico on one trip, I believe, and I went to a seminar in Phoenix.
And the bottom line is that with the assistance of another individual who we shall keep kind of silent tonight because I want to protect his identity, we were able to get a small pool of funds together.
And we put together a consortium of interests in Mars and artifacts and potential artifacts called Facets.
And Peter, you might tell them what Facets stands for.
The idea of this organization, folks, so that we might get this done quickly, I guess, was to be able to make a request of NASA that would not appear as though it came from obvious political sources.
Well, on behalf of the Formal Action Committee for Extraterrestrial Studies, and the person's name is David Jinks, and I think we should give him the credit due because he was the spearhead behind facets and behind my sending a letter to NASA on March 16th of this year.
It was a two-page letter where I summarized the history of what NASA had done on Mars and the fact that based on their own images, there was evidence that there were artificial structures on Mars.
And that since they have the Mars Global Surveyor going around the planet with the orbital camera, I think I wrote to them saying, I wrote to Golden, and I copied Senator John McCain.
And basically, I said, I think we should take advantage of this opportunity, and let's take some more images of Mars.
And I said, listen, I would like a response within 30 days.
There are also at least five other areas on Mars we want you to re-image.
Yeah, and there was evidence that basically they had the image of the entire face, but they hadn't released it.
So we asked, number one, release all the images that you have, that you haven't released so far of Sidonia.
Number two, re-image the face.
And I think there was another request also.
So I didn't think they were going to respond at all.
And 30 days passed and there was no response.
I returned to Sedona on Friday night, and lo and behold, I found a letter from NASA, from Dr. Weiler, the administrator for, what is it, space science?
And it was a three-page letter, and the most important section of the letter was this, quote, NASA has responded to the requests of the FACETS group in exactly the fashion requested in the March 16th letter by targeting the Sidonia feature under question with the highest possible resolution and most optimized illumination as well as in stereo.
And it goes on to state that it has posted these images on the internet.
In three different places, they indicated thus, and this is another quote, on the basis of the requests made in the March 16th letter, these actions were taken.
It says, in this case, NASA responded to the request by facets presented in the letter by Peter Gersten to Mr. Golden on March 16th by initiating a complex set of MGS spacecraft operations to ensure that the highest possible resolution images of the Sidonia face feature were.
Well, as my grandmother used to say, damn if I know, because we have now spent three days, a lot of us, you know, in this FASTIS umbrella group, all over the country, all over the world via the internet, emailing each other, looking at every possible NASA website, Mailins websites, JPL websites.
We can't find anything that corresponds to Ed Wiler's letter.
These data are released and available for interpretation by the FASTES members.
They were so recently required from the MGS that there may have appeared to have been a delay in their release, but this is not the case.
When an image is acquired of Mars, it must be relayed to Earth via a specific process and when reconstructed on the ground before it can be posted on a public website.
This was accomplished at the end of last week by April 19th and the data released on that date.
I think somewhere between the, with the directives from headquarters, take these pictures and the carrying out of the process by Dr. Malin and company at Malin Space Science Systems.
Anything is possible because we were not notified because of the lengthy delay of communications of this until this letter of May 11th, which is almost a month after he says they were posted.
Now, there are so many people, you know, on our behalf and others looking at mail and site and NASA sites.
In 3D stereo, and he even says in his letter here, he says, in addition to 1.5 meter per pixel resolution, NASA released a stereo anaglyph of the feature that allows the viewer with colored 3D glasses to view the feature in 3D.
I think the NASA letter also indicates what the division is.
On the second page, basically, Wireless states, at present, the scientific advisory committees that formally advise NASA have not interpreted the Saidonia feature as evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence.
Then the next sentence, NASA will continue to explore all possibilities for the origin of landscapes on Mars using the open process it has traditionally utilized as well as the timely release.
Now, so the scientists won't acknowledge that there's anything artificial on Mars, but I guess there are people within NASA that says, wait a second, it seems pretty obvious that there is.
On the bottom of the first page, he says, the newly released Sidonia observations reveal an intriguing mesa-like feature not unlike those found in the southwestern USA, with geological features that can be attributed to processes observed in multiple areas on Mars in which isolated topographic features, per-n, remnants, have been observed.
Indeed, NASA promotes innovative analysis of such spacecraft data via competitive peer review, as well as via open discussion and public meetings, and by all members of the interested public.
Some old, well-known characters, some of which I have on the phone, form an organization to write a letter to NASA to get what they might not otherwise get using their normal names.
NASA answers, says we're doing it.
We've done it.
It's posted on the website at long last.
The photo that everybody has been waiting for, the face on Mars, hallelujah, it's on the website.
Only, it's not there.
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Only, it's not there.
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 2001.
Tonight at the top of the hour, Dr. Jeff Long will be here with an NDE-sent rival or surpass in its terror, the rendition of its terror, that of Saras.
We've just got a lot to do.
It's going to be a big program tonight.
Already is a big program.
I guess let me start out by asking Richard, have you posted these letters, the ones sent to NASA and the answer on your website?
So I called NASA today, and I asked for Dr. Weiler, and he's out of town for a couple of days, so I made some further inquiry as to whether, in fact, this letter was authentic.
And they go into their computer, and they have a database of letters that they send the addressees.
And sure enough, my name was there.
But they also indicated that Dr. Weiler did not write the letter, because Dr. Weiler does not write letters.
He has action officers write the letters.
And that they looked up and they thought that this individual would be the action officer, and they connected me to him.
Unfortunately, he was not in.
I left a message on his voicemail that I would like to speak to him.
And he never called me back.
I'm hoping he will call me back tomorrow.
But, you know, the case file on my request, on the Fassett's request, should be very interesting.
What they did with the letter, where it went to, the responses to the letter, and that's obtainable under the Freedom of Information Act.
Well, that's what originally Richard thought, that Malin reluctantly posted these images on the internet, but made it so difficult that nobody could get it.
Except what he says on page two is, thus, on the basis of the request made in the March 16th letter addressed to Mr. Golden by Peter Gersten, the following items have been met or exceeded as follows.
One, all images of the Sidonia area have been released on the internet via www.mss.com, that's Malin's website, and other public NASA sites via JPL.
Two, stereoscopic full-resolution 1.5-meter per pixel MOC images were acquired at optimized illumination conditions of the Sidonia features and have been released via the internet.
Well, we will definitely, if we've got a 3D stereo anaglyph representation, satisfy once and for all the left-right symmetry, the various features, eyeballs, you know, teeth in the mouth, all of them.
I think the reason we're getting a really important response here, and the problem of the image not being around, notwithstanding, which I think indicates the war, or as Peter says diplomatically, the division between NASA and JPL.
I think the only reason we're getting a response is because of the copying to Senator McCain.
Senator McCain, from our White House sources, is the biggest dark shadow looming over the Bush administration that they could ever imagine.
John McCain is George Bush's worst nightmare.
And anytime you raise John's name, things suddenly happen because they do not want McCain to have another issue.
Campaign finance reform is moving, albeit slowly, but it is moving at a rate that nobody in Washington imagined would ever happen after he, quote, lost his presidential bid.
So they are desperate to keep him from having an issue.
So one can imagine, kind of like the conversation you were imagining between the people in National Geographic when Linda was being held on the line, you can imagine the conversations at headquarters when this letter comes in with copies to McCain and they look down and they see that Peter's very carefully sent a copy over to the senator who presides over the Commerce Committee and could call hearings tomorrow on this issue.
And it's clear in this letter, all three pages, over and over again, the statements are being made for the record that NASA is withholding nothing, that they have been fully upfront, that everything has been released, nothing delayed, et cetera, et cetera.
That is building a legal case in case there are hearings.
And tomorrow we hope that he will get a call back from Ed Weiler's agent of action to clarify which URL this has been hidden on, because it's obviously not public.
It's hidden somewhere.
If Malin carried out the orders.
Now, from 98 forward, we have tracked the problem between NASA and JPL and Mike Malin, right?
What possible motivation do you think they could have for answering your letter the way they did, indicating the pictures exist and they're up there, and then not having them up there?
Yeah, but it only makes NASA look bad because their whole thesis of the letter here is that their credibility is based on their not withholding and being forthcoming.
We can prove in front of a national audience, if they claim there's been a stunning image, 3D, of the whole thing up there for a month, and nobody has found it, it makes them look like liars.
So I don't believe that Ed Weiler is lying.
I think that the orders were given, get it all out there.
I do tend to agree that the picture may already have been taken.
In fact, Land Fleming, who is one of the other prestigious members of this informal group, did a calculation based on the April 8th image that was released.
Remember the new image that was taken of the face?
And he calculated that, in fact, it's only half the width that it really should be, indicating Malin got the whole thing, but sliced it in half so we'd only get the same western half that we've always seen, so he couldn't confirm the rest of the features.
And the way we interpreted this letter originally is that it was an olive branch.
It was basically a kind of, okay, guys, let's bury the hatchet.
Let's start over and do this the way we should have done it 20 years ago.
Listen to this.
Point number three that Wyler makes.
NASA awaits a specific list of requests for targeting, quote, the five additional areas of Mars from a list submitted by facets.
But no such list has as yet been received.
NASA welcomes a variety of opinions about the origin of enigmatic features on Mars as observed by the instruments aboard the Mars Global Surveyor.
NASA relies upon the peer review process and competitive peer review to fund analyses of the data it acquires and awaits newly published or proposals to undertake such interpretations of the Sidonia phase feature.
Now what that is saying, translation folks, is if FACED submits a scientific proposal for an analysis of artificial structures on Mars, they will go do it.
I mean this is an amazing letter.
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Barring the fact that we can't find the central feature of the letter.
And for those that miss it or don't have cable or whatever, we have it available at an 800 number now in video form.
And if you're just joining this controversy, as you can see, amazing things are happening, and this would give you a background for how we've gotten to where we are.
So that number, if you want to order the video, the PAC special, which got some pretty good reviews, is 800-350-4639.
Oh, Richard, you have not yet commented on this incredible, incredible story that we're following off the coast of Cuba with this high-resolution sonar imaging said to be of archaeological architectural,
actually, objects, roads, tunnels, at 2,200 feet below the water off the coast, western coast somewhere of Cuba.
As you know, we've all been looking at this and holding our breath.
And I've got to take my hat off to Linda.
Linda has done an extraordinary investigative reporter's job of nailing down the National Geographic and confirming that the oceanographer Paulina Zeliski is real.
There is a pending deal between the Cuban government and this oceanographic firm, ADC, and the Geographic, to go and look at this stuff this summer.
That's real.
And then things get really bizarre because I've been talking to one of our geologists, Ron Nix, about the geology of a city sitting on a plateau in the midst of white sands half a mile down.
And he tells me this is impossible by any conventional geology.
Because the ocean rise and fall, as Linda correctly pointed out on Friday, from the ice age is about 300 feet.
So there's no way that the ocean could have risen or fallen by 2,000 feet to give us, in the so-called classic period, you know, Mayan-type temples and roads and all that.
So the last time the ocean was that low, Nick tells me, was, get this, hold on to your hats, folks, 65 million years ago by conventional geological dating.
So the only other thing that the fallback position is, if we're looking at a catastrophic model, if we're looking at pole shifts, we're looking at Rand Flemas, Charles Hapgood, Einstein, etc., if there had been a major event in the last few thousand years, that plateau could have sunk en masse through some geology that most geophysics is not currently familiar with to that depth, but only if it was a geophysics we're not familiar with.
So this is looking more and more like the infamous A word.
And today, as a separate string to Linda's efforts in Washington, we have opened up a front, courtesy of Robin, who had a brilliant idea and has followed through on it, and it looks like it's going to pay off.
And in the next few days, Art, we will be able to report to you possibly new input from a major underwater exploration outfit that is independent of the Cuban government, the National Geographic, the U.S. government, etc.
And they may weigh in with their own ideas and opinions and maybe data on this remarkable find.
If you want to see the letters, the NASA letters, we're going to call them for now, all right, just go to my website, artbell.com, and tonight's guest info, and then look down under the name Richard Hoagland, Peter Gerston, and you will go to the website that has these letters, these amazing letters.
In a moment, coming up is Dr. Jeffrey Long, and he is, as a matter of fact, practicing the medical specialty of radiation oncology.
You know what that is, I suppose.
If not, we'll discuss what it is.
But that's not really why he's here.
Or maybe it is, in a way.
Dr. Jeffrey Long is the one who brought us, in part, brought us Sarah.
Remember Sarah's NDE?
I know you do because I have recently replayed it.
One of the most harrowing, wild descriptions of a trip to another place in death that has ever been done on the air as far as I know.
Now, you should prepare yourself tonight because what we've got coming up is yet Another one.
Dr. Long has brought us one that he suggests I warn you about, and so I certainly will.
The material you're going to hear tonight could be very disturbing to some children, to some adults as well.
If you remember the interview of Sarah, it goes, I am told, even beyond that in some ways.
I'll let Dr. Long characterize it for you here in a moment.
At any rate, that's what you're facing tonight.
Oh, by the way, even Sarah may be out there.
She's somewhere in Pennsylvania and trying to get through to the show.
That's never going to happen, Sarah.
You'll never, ever make it through.
What you can do, Sarah, is send me email at artbell at mindspring.com and just mark it from Sarah, giving me your phone number there in Pennsylvania, and I will call you.
But you would never be able to make it in.
The odds of that are slimmer than having the Sidonia pictures by tomorrow morning.
So you should send me some email, Sarah, if you're really out there.
Artbell at mindspring.com.
Just market Sarah.
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all that said in a moment doctor jeff long stay right there the You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 21, 2001.
Now comes Dr. Jeffrey Long, actively practicing in the medical specialty of radiation oncology, the use of radiation to treat cancer, in Tacoma, Washington.
He serves on the board of directors and is second vice president of IANDS.
That's the International Association for Near-Death Studies.
He has served as chairman of that organization.
His major NDE research effort has been through his website, Devoted Near-Death Experiences, and we've got a link to that right now, NDERF.org.
We've got a link up tonight.
This website has received hundreds of original contribution NDE accounts and has more NDE accounts posted than any other website in the world.
That's quite something to consider.
This is the website then for near-death experiences and one has to wonder how a doctor who works in such a hard area of medical practice, radiation oncology, would get And a lot of your patients do approach death's door, I suppose, doctor.
So I think most of us doctors in oncology have an interest in life after death issues because that's something we deal with and our patients deal with on a daily basis.
That's helped accelerate my interest in near-death experience.
Actually, the very first time I got interested in near-death experience was I was going through some medical literature looking up a totally unrelated medical article, and quite serendipitously I saw an article that had a provocative title about near-death experience.
This was about 14 years ago.
I'd never heard about near-death experience, and the title intrigued me, and I read it, and I said, my gosh, there's thousands of people having these remarkable experiences, and immediately was struck with the fact that there really should be more research in this area, and there really wasn't.
Then several years later, I talked to the wife of a friend, we were just meeting socially, and heard an absolutely astounding near-death experience that she had.
Involved a code on an operating room.
She had an out-of-body experience, left her body, saw them trying desperately to resuscitate her right on the operating room table, floated out through the walls of the operating room, and actually drifted back to the nursing room section that she had been an inpatient at, actually very carefully heard all the conversations of the nurses while she was technically dead.
Had a very transcendent experience, beautiful experience, light, deceased relatives, a lot of the elements that are common with near-death experience.
Ultimately was revived and was able to tell the nurses in great detail what they were saying right while she was clinically dead.
And this was way before Raymond Moody's landmark book in 1975, where people really understood that near-death experiences existed.
Before that time, and even up to the current day, there's still a lot of disbelief and a lot of people that really have a hard time accepting that this really does happen, and it's fairly common.
Now that I've had a chance, as you mentioned earlier, to have the generous contribution of others contributing hundreds of near-death experiences, and over that time I've been able to sort of see the pattern of it, and certainly it's there, but there are certainly periodically some hellish or very frightening near-death experiences that come along.
The one that we have tonight, the gentleman's name is Cougar, that's actually his legal middle name, is absolutely astounding.
I have never heard anything quite like it.
It's a very vivid encounter of the depths of hell, and it's just impressive.
Yeah, well, if it's a treat to go to hell, in a way it is, because it all adds up as we consider all of this information.
Doctor, how many by percentage, how many patients do you think, if we knew the real truth, have experienced hellish NDEs as opposed to the white light and everything wonderful and relatives and the usual?
How many do you suppose, if we knew the whole truth, might have experienced the other?
You know, they're very, very unusual, but not entirely rare.
A 1993 Gallup poll estimated there was as many as 12 to 15 million Americans who personally experienced a near-death experience.
So out of that, they're a fairly large number of people that have had an NDE near-death experience, probably about 15% of them are frightening.
And of those that are frightening, probably about 20, 30%, 40% involve hellish imagery, that being imagery that depicts either classic depictions of hell or other sort of very terrifying beings, imagery, etc.
You know, one might imagine, if you're thinking about classic heaven and hell and the behavior of human beings, that if we've got a really compassionate God, which I hope we do, that those numbers might be about right.
Well, you know, here's the surprising thing, Art, and some good news also.
That is that people that have a frightening near-death experience, actually after they've had a time to process it, and usually it takes many years, they actually end up growing enormously as individuals.
I think one thing I would emphasize is that the people that have frightening near-death experiences, to the very best that I and other researchers can discern, are every bit as upright moral people as the people that have pleasant near-death experiences.
Well, you see, that is, there's the big puzzle, isn't it?
After all, only society's lesser parts should be having these hellish near-death experiences, you would think.
Wouldn't you?
If the classic heaven-hell is true, our understanding of it is true, then it ought to be the people who have been bad, bad, bad, one way or the other, who have the bad experiences.
And that's something that we're still going to understand as investigators in near-death experience.
There's no question that there doesn't seem to be any distinguishing characteristics.
I think one of the major answers for that is that our near-death experiences are not punishment.
As best we can tell, all experiences are provided by or at least guided by a loving God.
There's potential for enormous growth.
In fact, people that have frightening near-death experiences will very often, years later, say that it was their life's greatest gift.
What that gift has given to them is the ability to confront their greatest fears, to look right down the barrel of that which most of us would flee in horror from or not even want to consider.
And as a consequence of facing that fear, of growing from it, of realizing that it's not a threat to them, that they've transcended that frightening experience, they're much braver people.
They're less frightened.
And for lacking that fear, I think they're better able to go out and live their life courageously.
By every way that you would judge a person, church going, very serious, volunteer, going the extra mile, very dedicated, very sincere in her spiritual search, and boom, she had at least a component of her experience.
Well, again, like I've said, I think when you follow up with these folks that have had these frightening experiences many, many years later, they don't really look at it as being a punishment.
I mean, it's not something where they ultimately felt that they were damned in any way.
They don't feel that they were judged.
It's just something that they went through.
It's just one very difficult part of the trail of this experience we all go through called life.
And they just happen to take an especially challenging part of this.
In fact, you could almost take a look at the flip side and say, maybe these people that have these horrific, frightening experiences at some level have some kind of courage that allows them to face experiences that those of the rest of us wouldn't be willing or able to face.
So that's the flip side of it.
And I mean, what they have to face and go through to come to grips with an experience like that is tough.
It takes work.
It takes time.
It takes a tremendous amount of courage.
But at the end of all that, I think they come through with some understandings that even most near-death experiencers don't.
Well, I in no way mean this to denigrate anybody who's had the courage to come forward with a hellish experience.
But is it also possible, Doctor, that there are things about their lives that Have been unsaid, that aren't part of the research, that might connect all the dots that would make us understand.
There's certainly when you ask a lot of questions to people that have had frightening near-death experiences, for some of them, and it's less than half-you can find some correlates with their experience with some repressed guilt or some repressed angers that these individuals had.
And this hellish experience that they go through is, even by their own confession, often at times, many years later, it's the only way that they could have confronted this.
It's the only way they could have gotten over those issues that were preventing them from being loving, completely happy individuals.
And this seems to be a part of a guidance of some loving God, however rough it seems, that ultimately they end up being far more loving, far happier, and very grateful for the experience.
Well, when I came up here in Tacoma here nearly a year and a half ago, I was very, very happy to find out that one of the leading Friends of INS groups, and you talked about INS early, they are the International Association for Near-Death Studies.
They have a large number of support groups.
And I would emphasize if anybody's had a near-death experience or especially a frightening near-death experience, please look up a Friends of IANS group in your area.
By the time you've encountered many hundreds of near-death experiences, I think you tend to hone in on some of the more unusual ones because they are challenging and they raise the very questions, the very good questions that you've brought up, Art.
And I think they cause all of us to think and challenge us more to some greater understanding.
They're tough for us researchers.
And certainly people that have had these experiences probably need even more support than people that have had very pleasant near-death experiences.
Those are easy to talk about.
People listen and go, ooh, and awe.
But when you've had a frightening near-death experience, I mean, think of it.
You try to tell anybody, what do they think?
They think, oh, what's this person done that they should be damned in such a way?
But in these Friends of Ions groups, in general, they've encountered all types of experiences, and they know that this is part of the spectrum of near-death experience.
And it can be accepted or respected there.
And this is where I've met Cougar, was in one of the largest Friends of Ions groups in the nation, headed by a Kimberly Clark Sharp, up in Seattle.
And she's been doing this for about 18-odd years.
Very large groups of absolutely phenomenal people meet there once a month.
And it was there I met Cougar and heard of his absolutely remarkable account.
So he initially shared it with me in written form.
And even when I read it, I considered it to be absolutely astounding.
But shoot, by the time you've encountered a few hundred near-death experiences and reviewed those accounts, even the remarkable ones you do encounter periodically.
But what really caught my attention was late last year when Cougar just totally serendipitously found a book sitting in his house that he had never read before, read a legend from back in the ancient Sumerian culture,
back actually written about several millennia B.C. And absolutely astonishingly, there were a tremendous number of parallels of his frightening experience with this ancient legend of millennia ago.
That's unusual.
And it reminds me of Sarah and how her experience remarkably parallels the Tibetan Book of the Dead.
Okay, in 87, I had gone to visit a medicine man of the Cherokee Nation and spent some time with him around on his land and in his pot house and had gone through some initiations with him on stuffed medicine animals.
In exchange for doing work for him, I was cutting some steps into a dirt path that led to his pothouse.
It was like 200 feet from the road, so in the steep areas where I cut through and cleared better steps for him since he was an older man at the time he was an 84-year-old medicine man.
Well, there was a period of time there where I was feeling kind of odd, and I didn't understand what it was, and it went on for a couple days.
And one day it just felt bad.
I felt bad.
I didn't know what it was.
It felt like there was something there I didn't understand.
And I started getting feverish.
And that was at the point when I went up to him and asked him if he had any ideas of what was going on.
And he was looking at it with spiritual eyes and thought I was getting prepared for a spiritual initiation, which I guess I did, and didn't know what I was walking into.
And so what he wanted me to do was go out to a medicine circle and deal with it out there.
He knew it was going to be a big ordeal, and he didn't say much else other than this wasn't good for me, but he said that you're probably going to a place where very few people come back, and those that do have gone crazy and others die with this experience.
105 degrees will give either a child or an adult hallucinations.
No question about it.
unidentified
Yes.
And so what happened here in 1987 was not really of a hallucination sort.
It was a deeper level of intimate contact with stuff, which I'll be getting into here in a second.
But when I went out to the medicine circle by myself, he stayed back in the pothouse and went out and laid down, and this fever was on me, and it was very unusual.
I never felt anything like this before, but I had, and it's like poison ivy inside me and outside me, and it was burning really bad.
And I checked the temperature later after this event to see what was going on, and I heard it was pretty consistent.
It was probably about 57 degrees throughout that evening, and into the morning, into the next day.
So I realized it wasn't the outside temperature having any influence over this.
57 was pretty comfortable for me.
I know it's cold for a lot of people, but that's a pretty good living temperature for me.
You went to this medicine circle he wanted you to go to?
unidentified
Yes, they had constructed one for him that was a fairly large one with beautiful stones around it and wanted me to do ceremony in there for this thing that was going to come on to me.
And I was reaching a point in the middle of the night where I was just blacking out.
I was going out of consciousness in the end.
And also, on top of feeling hot, there were times I got chills.
So I was going from one extreme to the other.
And it was just really racking my body and making me feel weak, uncomfortable, to say the least.
I went from total clarity to total oblivion.
And at one point, I just, to throw out a number, it was like 7 a.m.
I think it was, when one time I came straight out into consciousness and things were not right.
But you don't think there's any possibility he slipped you any sort of drug?
unidentified
I don't think so.
I mean, I was spending a couple hours a day with him, but I was also watching a lot of people go in and out and listening to their stories and what he was doing to work with them.
So you're getting very ill, and he has you go outside?
Yes.
unidentified
Oh, to explain that, then, that's a good question, because what he was thinking, and I don't really totally agree with this, but I respected at the time, he remembered that someone, they bring him gifts all the time, and someone had an object there that was probably cursed because some objects in different parts of the world are really not permitted to be taken from those areas,
and somebody had actually brought one back to the States, and he had neglected to do any work with that object, and he thought it might be coming from that object that was doing this to me.
So he wanted me to leave the pod house.
He lived in a little pod house out there in the wilderness.
So what he was essentially looking at was keeping, if it was an evil force, he wanted to keep it trapped in the pod house.
He had me go out and he sealed my pathway from this thing to not follow me as I went out.
And that was the work he was doing from that level.
So he stayed away.
And this was interesting with the Inanna legend also, the myth that's from the 18th century B.C. is that when Inanna was going to hell, she had a discussion with her minister along the same lines that I had with my medicine man.
And we did the same things.
We had gone out away from the minister where they stayed back and did prayer for us and beat a drum even.
So you went to this circle that had been prepared, and what happened?
unidentified
Well, like I say, about 7 o'clock in the morning, from what I can remember, is when I came to, and when I came out, it was I looked around through the trees and could see, to my perception, they were the forces of nature behind the trees.
I was beginning to see.
And coming over that was what I could feel was like a battle between good and evil.
And somehow, evil allowed the reins for that day to come to me.
And when that occurred, I saw an abyss or went into an abyss which was completely dark.
I can see in the darkness, much as in a heavenly experience, when you can still see with the brilliant light that is up there, you see things, and you see them in a different sense than you do in the physical world.
So even though it was probably totally dark, I was able to see and sense things around me.
So the combination of these heightened senses actually gives you at least the same vision, if not better, than what you would have in the physical world.
Yeah, everybody I've talked to who's had an NDE says They no longer fear death, and that was true of you, too.
unidentified
Right.
And now I'm back to feeling like a complete mortal within an immortal battlefield and was just completely overwhelmed with this and didn't understand why I didn't have any protection with me at all that I normally carried with me.
Well, the protection of love or some kind of sustenance from outside or the internal strength that one would have, the ability to discern and be mentally acute and verbally defensive if you need to come to your own defense.
And here you are in the middle of nowhere with nothing.
That really would be frightening to be so completely all alone.
unidentified
Yes, and I had no clue that anything like that could happen to us.
Even though I'm finding out later that it seems to be a law of hell to be stripped naked when you go down there, and I saw that through the Inanna legend as well.
And Doctor, feel free to break in anytime I'm not developing this the right way or I'm missing something important.
Okay.
Cougar, you were on this little apparent metal bridge with an abyss all around you.
Take it from there.
unidentified
Okay, also within this abyss, as things were going on, there was a little bit of light coming from the top, and I can see that it was gradually closing up.
It was like capping me off from the rest of the world.
So I was inside this abyss now that was completely surrounded in darkness.
And I was trapped in there, and there was no way out.
And at this point, there were two beings that came up to me that were huge beings.
And all I can relate to them, they didn't give me names, but the only way I can relate is I called them like the great-grandmother and the dark-great-grandfather had come to me.
And that's also the feeling and the energy and everything that I was getting off of them.
The dark great American grandfather or great grandfather.
That sounds very Native American.
unidentified
Well, to me, it doesn't anymore, I guess, from the explorations I've had in Native American.
I mean, sometimes I will say Great Spirit also, instead of Holy Ghost or the Father or God or whatever, they're all just different names for the same thing.
Well, is there a way for you to describe what you saw?
unidentified
Yes, I know there is one place I can give as an example of the whole creation story they gave me was the place where we were migrating to the Earth.
There hasn't been life here on the Earth at that point in time, and they were coming from different parts, different galaxies.
And they showed the migration as if we were tiny spores, like spiny spores, floating through space, reaching the Earth.
We were glad to be here.
We had used up wherever we had been previously, and we were coming to this planet, engaged in this planet, went through the evolutionary scales, and we tore down trees.
We would eat things to survive.
So they were showing me how we had to kill other things in order to survive ourselves.
Whenever Cougar talks about the communication from these dark beings that he's encountered, you art and everybody must understand that these are malicious lies intended to deceive.
They're intended to try to convince Cougar that he is one of them, and it's a temptation to lead him deeper and deeper into hell, which he's going to listen to.
It's eerie, Art, just to see how you start processing this as potentially true.
It's not.
It's a lie, and it's a manifestation of a very intelligent evil force.
Well, being in a heavenly experience, I had a heavenly as well to compare it to, so I had some preparation myself in order to have, I guess, some kind of resistance against it.
Even though I was stripped completely naked, I did kind of know better in the back of my head, but they were really overwhelming me with their versions of things.
And in that sense, what they were trying to do was showing me that I was the kindred spirit with them, that I was of Them and I should accept being with them because we were all the same and one.
They went on into a second stage.
By the way, I kind of call this first stage that they took me through like the throne room because I saw the great-dark grandmother and great-dark grandfather, the central beings of this place.
And this next place, well, before the place they took me into, they showed me people who had lived on this earth before.
They made me feel what they felt.
They showed me people who were famous by history, and they showed me many unknowns.
And all these people had been doing work for the dark side.
The dark side was using them, and at the same time, they were also using the dark side to get what they want.
And these were very successful people for the most part.
unidentified
Yes.
And I think successful a lot because of the dark power that was able to play through them and manipulate probably certain events around them to have things happen that we call coincidence.
What you just talked about comes up just around the corner here.
I see.
So they showed me these people on the planet and showed me how they survived it and how they did more than survive it and become powerful people.
Some of them are still considered famous today who did great things.
Of course, there are great things.
There are side effects from what they did for their personal power.
And then they showed me these same people there in the banquet room in hell.
This is the only other way I can describe it.
It's like the hall of feasting in the abyss.
And these people were not being tortured.
They weren't torturing each other.
I did not hear suffering.
I just heard pleasure, and I saw pleasure, and I saw them doing whatever they want to do, and they were doing everything they wanted to do with each other.
Most of us have thought of heaven as sort of a sterile place where there wouldn't be beer, smokes, women, you know, in the sense we know them here on earth biblically, that there wouldn't be any of that, that we'd be flying around up there with maybe wings, which sounds somewhat appealing, but otherwise it would be kind of boring.
And then other people have pictured hell in sort of the way you're talking about it.
They were trying to indoctrinate me, I guess, into their side.
They wanted my power.
They wanted me to work for them.
And I guess the only thing I can presume is that my own spiritual growth was reaching a point that it came to their attention that they thought they might as well give me a tour of hell before I start going too far on the side of the light and actually work against their efforts, or not really against their efforts, but in a different direction, not giving them any power whatsoever or any justification in this world.
He's a radiation oncologist, and he's brought Cougar with him, who is giving you a description of his trip to the place you don't want to go to necessarily.
And so he was kind of in the middle of being shown what pleasures would await should he make, I guess, what they considered to be the right decision.
unidentified
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 2001.
Music All right, back down we go with Dr. Long and Cougar.
And one of the other things, other than what I talked about earlier about feeling mortal now, is the other thing that was obvious to me was the extreme lack of love down there.
There was no love at all there, whereas in the heavenly experience, there was all love surrounding.
So this kind of gave away something to me here.
And that was extremely terrifying also.
I could not even generate any love within myself, let alone feel it from anywhere outside of me.
So I was completely trapped in this cold place.
And the other processing thoughts I had was this was a real place of power for people who wanted to do dark power.
And that if there were sorcerers who came into this area that had no heart themselves or had no real love on earth, that they may not even know, they may not even notice that there was no love there.
I know I was blocked, you know, immediately afterwards I'd block out as much as I could because if I tried to rehearse it or rehash what happened just an hour or two after I came out of it, it would have been just following me that much more.
And I just wanted to leave it as far behind as I could.
Came, I don't know how long the time was, but I just woke up, straight woke up, shot, woke up into consciousness, and I felt safe.
But I did feel very fragile, very weak, and very empty.
But at least I know that the tough part was over.
That was gone.
I survived.
I don't know how I survived.
And I thank God for that.
And a part of the story that connects with Inanna as well at the end here is even as the physical events occurred, that when I stepped out of the sacred circle, I had two bees come up to me at eye level, one at each eye, and they stayed right on track with my eyes.
And as I stepped out of the circle, they stayed equal distance from my head.
And I said, what is going on here?
They're not stinging me.
They're not coming any closer.
They're staying an exact distance.
So I just thought about what I was around and what I was in and said, oh yeah, I forgot to thank the Sacred Circle for its protection.
I forgot to thank Grandpa Roberts out in his podhouse for sending love to me and hoping everything would go okay, doing the drumming for me.
And when I did that prayer, the bees disappeared.
And I went further from the Sacred Circle about 40 feet later.
There was like another outer circle there where I had to go through a rock and some trees, kind of like a gateway out through that way.
And when I was stepping through there, those two bees, I assume they were the same two bees, came up to me.
They were the same place.
They went at my eye level.
They hovered right there and would not let me go any further.
And I said, okay, what else am I missing here?
And what I had to do is reconnect with the land is what I picked up.
And I did.
I felt everything around me and thanked the land, I guess, for just being here.
It's like hissing the earth when you finally come off the ocean and you finally reach ground.
And right when I did that, they left again.
And this ties in with the Inanna story as well, Which maybe Dr. Jeff can go into that later if he does any review of this, because there were nine obvious phases between the process I did going into hell and Inanna.
And we went through all nine of those phases, and there turned out to be like 20 similar items within the whole experience between what we experienced.
It was almost like I was reliving that myth from the 18th century B.C. I did not know this until last year.
I had books boxed away for like 15 years and had just recently, all these events, this is another strange thing.
It seems like most of these things happen in September, around September, and I believe this was also like September 17th when I uncovered this book on poems of heaven and hell.
And during this time, I was writing documentation for Dr. Long on this, on these three NDEs I had, when I came across this book and said, well, I've got to read this book because I'm writing him experiences about heaven and hell as well.
And I wonder what this book contains.
I got into that book and it blew me away.
And so I ended up writing another whole comparison study between her stuff and mine.
Well, you've had quite a few of, you know, similar to other post-inde-ears, you've had your share of sort of special psychic or paranormal abilities following this.
You relayed some of those to me, which I think are quite interesting.
You know, the electrical sensitivity is a very common thing, and I know you can't wear a watch.
Whenever you're around a group of near-death experiencers, it's very typical that the ones that have had an experience can't really wear a watch well.
They keep having trouble with it and going down.
And you've had some other interesting experiences, too, I know.
unidentified
Yes, for a while it seemed coincidental, but apparently there were times when I felt a higher energy.
I don't know how to explain this, but when you're kind of on a high, a natural high, like when you're first falling in love and stuff like that, that there was more of a tendency to light bulbs to blow out.
And I experimented with that on some streetlights one night because it happened so often.
I said, this has got to be more than coincidence.
And I actually worked my way down the street from standing in one spot and looking at streetlights.
I worked my way down the street blowing out the lights.
This was actually after the second experience, the heavenly experience, where this came about and I was aware of that power and was doing that.
From the hellish experience, yeah, there was something, accurate to Anana, they described it as demons clinging to her thighs as she came out of hell.
And I felt something similar in the sense that they were still trying to work the dark power through me.
They wanted to tempt me still, and they said, here, you have it, use it.
And I had to resist using that.
I was at a place where I was telepathically reading people's minds.
And when I looked at people's faces, I can tell what kind of past they had, if they were in spousal abusal situations or if it was childhood abuse.
And it was usually all the negative stuff as well.
I was picking up from people.
And I kept trying to block that.
It was very difficult.
There came a point either within three days to a week, it was just too much.
And Grandpa Roberts saw that I was going through a lot.
And he said, what you need to do is go out to Mount Shasta and clear yourself of this dark power, which I did.
I took a journey to Mount Shasta and spent about a week on the mountain and had a pretty high experience there.
I had a lot of dreams during this time in different places.
I would park near lakes, lake beds near Mount Shasta, and seem to get some resolution off this dark side about what the purpose of the dark power was.
Why do they do this bad stuff to you?
Why are they here?
Why wasn't it a heavenly experience?
And a lot of these questions were answered to me in my dreams, which I'd like to call the spirit of the lady of the lakes, the different lakes I was at, Lake Siskiyou and stuff like that.
I'm not sure that in my mind, interesting as it was, that his story rises to the level of Terra, and there are a couple of reasons.
I guess, one, he seems inclined toward the exact kind of spiritual experience, positive or negative, he had because of his connection, his Native American connection.
He seemed inclined toward that in the first place.
And there goes an alarm here.
That's probably our local cat doing that.
Anyway, he seemed inclined toward that kind of experience, and that's exactly what he got, either positive or negative.
And then finally, generally when people have mystical experiences, you don't seek out an experience where you're basically going to be tortured or racked as Cougar was, as he was sickened trying to resist this overwhelming temptation.
The take I got on this art is, and this is what's so chilling about this account, is that this wasn't anything, and like most near-deaf experiencers, the experience really is not what they're expecting.
And you can ask them directly, and very, very few will say that this is what they expected.
and I ask that as part of my research.
What my take on this is that he encountered a diabolic, markedly intelligent evil being, an evil being that was so cunning that right from the moment they introduced themselves, they used family terms, grandmother, grandfather, to try to make him feel like he was one of them.
The whole course of this experience was that of trying to make him think that he was a part of them.
I mean, even to this very chilling concept that, hey, you have to kill on Earth here in order to survive, so doesn't that make you like us who kill with impunity, you know, out of evil?
And with this half-truth, they sort of gradually took him down the path of step-by-step, you know, starting out with a very logical sort of familial connection, greeting, and just going down the path showing him even famous people.
Wouldn't you like to be famous?
Wouldn't you like to have this feedback of being rich, of being powerful on Earth?
Look at how these people felt.
And he felt it just like them.
And then finally, to the bowels of hell, where you're actually seeing all these people acting out, and as cougars relate to me, every possible type of perversion, gluttony, in an environment that superficial looks like it might actually be a form of heaven, but it's not.
Yeah, this is not anything that I've ever run to from anybody that would ever have expected this as part of their spiritual experience.
This seems to be some kind of a combination of cougars'readiness and something very, very dark and very intelligent and very, very evil, trying to capture him, lure him into something unspeakable, become part of them.
Nothing is graphic where you actually encounter, like a grandmother or grandfather of hell.
Of the population of frightening near-death experiences, most are different from this quite a bit.
In fact, one of the most common types of near-death experiences that I've run into that are perceived as frightening are people that have seemingly pleasant experiences, but because it's so unfamiliar to them and they feel out of control, they're frightened.
I had a very graphic near-death experience where somebody got into a car wreck and the ambulance picked them up and they said, the ambulance was taking them off and a lot of near-death experiences involve ambulance trips because that's where they code or die.
So very typically they'll have an out-of-body experience where they can actually see the ambulance people trying to resuscitate the person.
Well, in one experience I ran into, this individual was in the out-of-body experience and art angels came to visit this person while they were out-of-body and while they were basically coated right in the ambulance.
Now you and I would say, great, angels, and welcome them and it would be a blissful experience.
But this person was terrified.
He flailed at the angels.
He tried to fight them off.
He was frightened.
And this is a type of frightening near-death experience where you have very positive, pleasant imagery, most people would think, but the experience is just so unusual and they're just not ready for it and it scares them.
That's one type of frightening near-death experience.
There's two others.
We've talked about the hellish.
I guess the third type of frightening near-death experience is a void.
An emptiness, a complete lack of connection with anything or anybody.
Often this void experience, which can be accompanied by cold feelings and distant feelings.
It can also involve sense that you've been annihilated, that you never existed and never have and never would.
And then also to note, folks, the one common experience they all have, positive or negative, is they seem to come away with some sort of phenomenal power which fades given time.
Some sort of ESP, the ability to read minds, the ability to blow out light bulbs, but it fades.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 2001.
We are the red guys, but you're singing.
Please turn me on, why can't I get here?
Doesn't matter, heart ain't never a day.
Now I've got a tear down all the way.
It's a situation that I just can't win, yeah.
Please turn me on, why can't I get here?
What will you do when you're lonely?
No one waiting by your side.
You've been loved, I've been rushed and long.
You know it's just your foolish man.
Yeah, love.
You got me on my heels, baby.
I'm begging, darling, please.
You got me on my heels, baby.
I'm gonna get you down.
You are listening to Art Bell somewhere in time tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 21st, 2001.
You know, it does make you wonder what hell really is like, doesn't it?
It's a kind of a blurry, strange distinction that's been drawn for us.
thing i did get from the uh...
she and the experience that was a debauchery going on down there that he found that he was very drawn to and then sickened by There's some synchronicity for you.
Anyway, good morning, everybody.
We're in open lines for the next hour.
unidentified
anything you want to talk about.
Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues, courtesy of Premier Networks.
Well, I would suggest that you all follow the trail.
Go to my website.
Go to Program Tonight's Guest Info.
And under the name Richard Hoagland and Peter Gerson, you'll see website NASA alleges new images on the phase on Mars.
Read the letter that went out from this front group that they formed called Facets.
The first one, 316, Facets demand letter to NASA's Dan Golden.
And then the incredible answer.
NASA responds to Fassett's demand letter.
And in there, you will find a statement from NASA that, in fact, they had complied with the demands or requests, depending on how you put it, of Fassett, I guess demand is the word they use, and had imaged a face in question with even more.
And everything wanted is up on the web as of the 19th of April of 2001.
And then you'll see Fassett's response to the NASA letter.
And then if you want to go looking for yourself, you're certainly welcome to.
But the face of it, excuse the pun, on the face of it, it seems as though NASA's saying we got a full-on shot of the face on Mars, and it's all up there for you.
We have done as you have asked.
And the part of the letter that gets me is that they seem to suggest directly in the letter that it was done as a result of the letter and following the letter.
And there was this, it looked like a stealth fighter, except this plane that went over me had a pointed nose, it was triangular, and it had like six propellers in the back of it.
And it made the same noise that a person that you spoke about here three or four weeks ago was talking about the different noises where it went woo-woo like that.
Well, this airplane, vehicle, whatever it was, was going very, very slow.
I mean, it was just going so slow you couldn't even imagine how slow it was going.
And it was going up the river, and it was on Eglin Air Force Base there, and there was cloud cover, and it was making that noise, and it just went right on.
I'm just wondering if that's something similar to what you've seen, or.
I would have no way of knowing, but I wouldn't think that propeller technology would have any relationship to stealth, although I suppose they could be 1973.
Yeah, they might be checking out some sort of aerodynamic design or something.
I suppose that would be possible.
you know pre-stealth aerodynamic test uh...
unidentified
it waited but it sounded Well, I can hardly hear what you're playing.
Yeah, you've got to have a little bass response to be able to hear it, and that just doesn't go over a phone.
But kind of a throbbing sound?
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, it made that very same sound.
And this thing was, and as it passed over, I saw it coming right at me with a window kind of pointed down, and it was a triangle-shaped airplane, if that's what it was.
And that's down in that area, even though they have a lot of sightings of EFOs and so forth down in that Gulf Bees area.
And in each living thing, there's an exact replica of our own solar system.
Well, then, what's life?
if you've got that part figured out i want to know what are we is nothing but tiny specs on an atom running around like well i think when you die now okay or whatever you decompose and all your atoms whatever gets dispersed throughout the world but there's that one adam that
is this it exact replica of our own solar system that you you know when you float around you go up into a piece of grass getting back our whatever and then come out in the milk and in any year born again for the park well i never quite thought of it that way but uh...
you know that the high women sound about as a song about uh...
coming back as a single drop of rain so you know maybe it seems so uh...
coincidental that it it heard that it seems exactly the same model as a solar system is to an atom and you know i don't know what that all it says good an explanation as anybody else's listen do you have a good big air horn on that giant tombstone holland machine uh...
unidentified
and uh...
all right thank you very much and take care that that sounded like uh...
you imagine rolling tombstones why not wildcard line you're on the air hello uh...
it's mike again uh...
unidentified
mike again uh...
i mean michael from indio california i'm listening to k-news 970 yes sir or uh a few minutes minutes ago this is kind of weird while i was listening to your show 970 yeah made me change the dial to the more monsterous kfi 640.
World's Most Scariest Places they went to Chillingham Castle in northern England.
I recorded the whole show and at the end this girl's down in the dungeon and there's this mirror on a table behind her and all the electrical equipment starts going off one by one all the cameras in the other rooms because they have Those night vision cameras set up because it's just black.
Well, just before her camera goes off, the mirror goes flying off the table.
And so I thought, well, that's interesting.
So I ran it back and I ran it in slow motion, and you can see the ghost go by the camera.
It comes from the right, goes to the left, and swirls back around and hits the mirror from the top.
Because I thought they were pulling it off of a string, and so I was running it in slow motion.
I do think there is a creative force, a God force.
And that's about as far as I can go.
unidentified
Well, I do hear your heart crying out for the truth.
And if you can just give me 30 seconds, I just want to tell you something.
This is very simple.
Forget everything you've ever heard, especially what the Christians have said.
I'm going to be real brief.
God is holy.
Satan is evil.
Adam and Eve used their free will to choose to do the one thing God warned them not to do.
God, being a God of justice, had to follow through with the penalty of death, but being a God of mercy, did not want them to have eternal death, became a man, lived a holy life, and died for us because we are their children.
Yeah, in other words, when you look at the atom and you look at the way electrons move and you consider the way the sun and the planets move and everything around that moves, bigger and bigger or smaller and smaller, depending on the direction you want to go, then it might all make sense.
My name is Dana, and I'm from Riverside, but I kind of don't mind telling you that, but I'm not sure if I want to disclose it on the air, but I have some things.
It seems like an insidious plan for mankind, if you ask me.
unidentified
Yeah, great, great cue.
My thoughts sometimes get scattered as much.
Well, the thing is, is this, as far as that, as far as making a point there, I'd have to say that God being, let's assume, of course, for a moment here, that whether he be the God of the Bible or this or the Koran or what have you,
a perfect God, a holy God, creating something, speaking into existence according to, you know, some teachings, he would have to, in order to get a creature that wasn't, if you will, pre-programmed, like his creations in heaven, that haven't faced this yin and this yang, haven't faced a choice, and they're kind of automated about in his presence.
To get a being that has a free will, there has to be the yin to the yang.
As it's told, that Lucifer was one of the highest angels in Hinduism.
In other words, maybe that's all we have, and that really is all we have, are NVEs, near-death experiences.
Some closer than others, but never the complete thing.
In other words, nobody yet has come back from serious death.
Let's say 6 to 12 hours or more.
Dead.
Cold.
No vitals.
The whole thing.
Really dead.
Nobody yet has ever come back from that.
Not a one.
When we have the first, that's sure going to be worth a listen.
In the meantime, what we've got is the close stuff.
And that varies in degree from those who actually have had vital signs completely cease to those who have had some sort of spiritual experience or maybe something induced by a fever or food poisoning or any one of a million different things that would be lesser than all vital signs gone.
They do seem to have something all in common, though, don't they?
unidentified
They do.
You are listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 21, 2001.
Coast to Coast AM West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Well, first of all, Sarah, after her experience, I decided to get two independent past life regressionists to work on her to see if there's anything that we could come up with.
We found out that she had a past life as a Tibetan monk, and she was beheaded at a young age, like about 20.
And that could account for why she had what's considered to be a Tibetan experience with those monsters that were flaming.
Yeah, nobody really put that together until after she was on the air, and then everybody put it together.
unidentified
And then everybody put it together, and the past-life regression proved it.
Two independent people.
Now, I could have done her, but I didn't want to do a past-life regression and then have other people say, well, you had an ulterior motive for coming up with that.
Yeah, and so two people who didn't know her story.
Okay, she's listening, so I hope I present everything correctly.
Then the next thing is she was always just an observer.
She was never sent to hell.
She floated out of the cloud-like tunnel.
I just talked to her yesterday, and she said there was a hole in the tunnel, and instead of going totally toward the light, she took a detour, went through one hole, and it was that first form of hell.
Then she floated down out of there, and she got the impression, and she confirmed it again yesterday, that anybody could have left any time they wanted to if they would just look toward the light.
That plays into the next thing I want to tell you, too.
I have developed a way, believe it or not, to reliably induce an after-death communication.
And I was doing this with one of my subjects.
And after she had a nice chat with her mother, which instantly resolved all her grief issues, another entity came through her, appeared before her, and she became very cold and turned kind of blue and started shivering.
I had to go get her a blanket.
But this entity was in that second form of hell, which was the dreary one, where they're very isolated and they keep reliving some of their past experiences that they considered to be, you know, unforgivable.
So what happened was this entity came through her, and we weren't trying to get this entity through.
I mean, this was a shock to both of us.
But this entity told me that he had murdered, killed himself, suicide, and he gave me the date.
He told me that he wanted me to contact his girlfriend because when he killed himself, he blamed her and wrote her a long letter.
And then he stabbed himself, which I think is kind of a bizarre way to die.
But he stabbed himself in the stomach of all things.
He gave me all kinds of, and even provided me with the phone number for this girlfriend to call, for me to call her.
And so I did.
And the person I reached said, oh, she moved a couple months ago.
So I'm not sure if I could ever track her down, but it did prove that she at one time lived there.
And I don't think the subject was faking it because, like I said, she turned blue.
She was teeth chattering.
This ghost, if you will, the suicide, said that he was in a kind of a landscape which was featureless, dull, drab, and everybody kind of walked around totally feeling isolated and depressed, and they were unaware of anybody else around them.
So this fit that second view of hell that she had, where also people could leave if they wanted to.
There's lots of different definitions, but Jeff and I worked on this one, and that is it's a situation where you basically travel to the other side through whatever, you know, event that caused it, such as a death type of situation.
i want a hundred and sixteen hours and five minutes without sleep and you said it's the hallucinations were just as real as anything you ever As real as anything you've ever experienced.
you see what i'm saying is how do we not apply that to all indies why should we not necessarily Even when we have so-called clinical death, all we have is something that almost happened.
We don't yet have anybody who's actually come back from dead, dead.
Negative influences starting in childhood can create people who can either rise above them and go on, or there's people who get, they buy into the negativity and they just are negative in life and they're negative after they die.
They don't necessarily change.
By the way, that suicide that hung around, I had to have an exorcism on him to get him to leave.
Essentially, I brought in two psychic friends who both saw him.
I couldn't see him, but they could.
And we told him to go to the light.
He said that he wasn't worthy of going to the light.
He felt like he had done something terrible and he needed to figure out a way to make that right.
Until a person really realizes their own true nature, their own God-self, if they just could connect with that, if they had spirit guides that were to come down and convince them of that.
But see, it's always free will, even in hell, the hell that they create for themselves, which is a mindset.
You know, if you talk to James von Prague and all these other people who have actually dealt quite a lot with the other side, they all say that there is no real hell.
What it is, it's the mind projection.
And we put ourselves there because we feel we need to be there.
The one thing you're saying about the Christians there, that's, I don't know, I know a Christian, and she's, I don't know, I asked her questions about the stuff that Richard Hoagland always talks about.
not at all with the cars projecting over a pad or something i know it would eventually wear out but could it generate some kind of energy into something that could be Okay, that's what I wanted to know.
Listen, I've known all manner of people, and some people that I've known have been pretty off the deep end, whether they call themselves Christians or not.
But I, for one, I have to say that the face on Mars bears a striking resemblance of the face on the Shroud of Turin.
I know one of the bands that had a number one song for over 10 years running was a Stairway to Heaven song.
And the interesting thing...
Yes, and the interesting thing to note about that was everywhere there was a statement that disagreed with the core principles of what the Bible would have to say on its shell and how things are.
Every time there was a place that it mentioned, you know, like, for instance, the Bible says, hey, in the end, you can't change your road, but in the song it says there's still time to change the road you're on.
And I played that backwards for myself.
And there's stuff coming out of those rise, if you will.