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April 30, 2001 - Art Bell

02:47:47

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Phenomenon of ET Identity - David Wilcock & Dr. Scott Mandelker

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	Oh, and it's all right, and it's coming on We gotta get right back to where we started off
	Love is good, love can be strong We gotta get right back to where we started from
	Oh, come on See you another day, I saw you there
	When you first came my way I said no one can take your place
	And if you get hurt If you get hurt
	By the little things I say I can put that smile back on your face
	Wanna take a ride?
	Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	to the Rockies 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	The wildcard line is open at 1-779-727-1295.
	And to call out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell, from the Kingdom of Nine.
	It certainly is.
	I'd like to welcome everybody in, because we're going to be talking about an entire... Well, the title is, The Time of Global Shift.
	That sounds pretty serious, doesn't it?
	With Dr. Scott Mandelker and David Wilcock.
	David was on most recently talking about the sun with us.
	You may recall that for an hour.
	And now we've scheduled a whole show, but this one's going to be pretty serious stuff.
	The time of global shift.
	That's coming right up.
	But first, this is very important.
	Listen to me very, very carefully.
	And I mean listen to me very carefully.
	It's important that you listen carefully.
	Because some of you are not.
	Here's the deal.
	WTAN, the monster radio station in Cleveland, has started a Weakest Link contest.
	And it's been going on unbeknownst to me, certainly, for about, I guess, 10 or 12 days or something like that, quite a while.
	And they have taken all their radio personalities, national and local, and thrown them into this contest called the Weakest Link.
	And under the category of Goodbye, We have already lost Rush Limbaugh, Dr. Laura, Kim Mihalik, Dr. Natasha, Mike Trevisono, I think, Kevin Keene, Bill Wills, John Webster, Casey Coleman, Paul Harvey, all voted off.
	And I found out only today that I am in the final round against a local personality there named Rick Gilmore.
	So, I need your vote.
	I need it now.
	And you've got to cast it the right way.
	It's really important.
	What you do is you go to my website, www.artbell.com.
	Go to What's New.
	You know, it's right there.
	Let's see.
	How do you do it?
	You go to What's New.
	It'll say, Are Trying to Win Weakest Link Contest.
	Click on that.
	That will take you to an explanation of this.
	Now, it's very important to understand that in order to vote for me, you have to vote for Rick Gilmore.
	You have to vote for Rick Gilmore as the weakest link.
	Therefore, you vote for me.
	Some of you are mixing this up.
	Plus, the fact that the evil Gilmore will marshal his evil forces later in the day and try and overtake me.
	so during the overnight hours we must do as much as we can so in order to defeat the evil gilmore and his forces
	you must go to my website click on what's new and follow the link over and remember again let me say this
	one more time with emphasis
	a vote for rick gilmore is really a vote for me because you're voting him
	the weakest link do not go there and vote for me sheesh
	remember saucer in every pot That's my campaign promise.
	Anyway, all of that's there, and a lot more on the website.
	And thanks, Keith.
	Yes, I found my... You should see my webcam picture.
	Every now and then I'll go there, ready to put up a webcam picture, and I go there and I go, what?
	Obviously, Keith, on his way to California, As a gesture of last, as he left, put up this... I have no idea where he got it, but it's on my webcam right now.
	All right, in a moment we begin talking about the time of global shifts.
	Now, we have two guests coming up.
	Dr. Scott Mandekir has an M.A.
	in Counseling, a Ph.D.
	in East-West Psychology, and over 20 years' experience in Buddhism and Eastern religion.
	He is the author of two books, From Elsewhere in 1995, and Universal Vision in 2000.
	Has spoken at UFO and New Age Expos throughout the U.S., Japan, and Israel.
	Has appeared on over 75 radio and TV shows.
	Wow!
	Has done spiritual counseling for the last 10 years, has a website that we've got a link to right now on my website, is project director for a multimedia seminar entitled, The Time of Global Shift, which will be held in a number of cities across the country, including Chicago this coming May, Boulder, Colorado this coming June.
	Mr. David Wocock is a specialist in theoretical science, And the Interfaces Between Metaphysics and the New Paradigms of Matter and Universal Energy.
	He is the author of several books, including Wanderer Awakening and The Shift of the Ages.
	He lectures throughout the USA, has appeared on international talk radio, And his work has been featured in several magazine articles and referenced in frontier scientific publications.
	Just earlier tonight, his new book, Convergence 3, has been posted free of charge on his website.
	Wow!
	That's ascension2000.com.
	And we have a link on my website.
	And of course, The Good Doctor's website is www.universal-vision.com.
	We also have a link.
	So all of these are on my website.
	Anyway, In celebration of this broadcast, he's put a book up there free of charge for you.
	His new book involves a completely new view of quantum mechanics, anomalous Earth and solar phenomena, and planetary and galactic energy systems.
	Mr. Wilcox is also the research director for the Time of Global Shift Seminar Tour.
	Tonight, Dr. Mandelker and Mr. Wilcox will discuss their upcoming multimedia seminar tour entitled The Time of Global Shift.
	They suggest the quickening, which we have talked about so much on this program, is not just occurring with the Earth and Sun.
	Similar energetic changes, luminous and magnetic anomalies, are occurring all throughout the solar system.
	They will also argue that the movement of the solar system is what is driving these changes, as we are now breaking through into a more energetic area of the galaxy.
	Tonight, We'll find out what they think the scientific and spiritual implications of this event will be for humanity, and learn about the connection of this event to ancient prophecies, modern UFO visitations, and the phenomenon of ET souls.
	Here they are, and let's see if we can learn to recognize their voices.
	Dr. Scott Mountaker first.
	I'm here.
	Thanks, Art, for having me, and back again.
	All right, now let's listen to David.
	I'm right here in Virginia Beach, Virginia.
	okay where are you uh... document are in planet and that that uh...
	so we have all kinds of differences here
	but you don't have to let alright the uh... east west coast already got it covered
	alright i guess you would know better than i where we begin uh...
	david uh... the good doctor chose you to direct
	the research efforts Obviously, he could have chosen anybody for this position.
	So, Doctor, why did you want David?
	Why did you feel that his message was essential to the project?
	I mean, is he the science side of the metaphysical part, or what?
	Yeah, well, let me give you a brief introduction to the project.
	And then I can tell you why I chose David and just what he's doing.
	All right.
	The project called The Time of Global Shift is basically a two-day seminar that will be going to different cities around the U.S.
	The first is Chicago, May 18 and 19.
	The second is Boulder, Colorado, June 15 and 16.
	The heart of the presentation is the Friday night seminar in three parts.
	The first one is science, which is very much what David has covered on your show.
	Solar anomalies, Earth changes, how it relates to the movement of the solar system around the galactic center, all of the energetic phenomenon that we see happening, and basically just lay out that story and make it very clear that unusual things, unprecedented changes are happening.
	Can we document that?
	Well, as much as, you know, the kind of material David brought on the show last time can be documented.
	I mean, you know, like You know, the solar flares, right?
	And the sort of mega super class that they never saw before?
	Yes, actually we have the largest ever recorded in mankind's history, fortunately directed away from Earth, so that the impact was minimal.
	How did it hit Earth?
	Well, you know, let me just vector in really fast my view, okay, on that.
	Sure.
	The sun is a being.
	Earth is a being.
	We are beings.
	The whole creation is filled with intelligent life.
	Well, are you saying... Let me stop you right there, and let's talk about that.
	You're saying the Sun is a being, the Earth is a being, the same as we are beings.
	In what sense?
	I mean, the Earth, after all, is... A rock.
	It's a rock.
	Right.
	And we are people.
	So, in what sense are we the same?
	The Earth, the rock, is the body of its consciousness.
	The human fleshy body is the form of our consciousness.
	The sun's radiant luminous sphere is the body of its consciousness.
	It's not so different from sort of high-level animism, which is not so different from the mystic's view all around the world that it's all alive, or... Well, that would be the Native American view, certainly, wouldn't it?
	Yeah, sure, they talk about that.
	The living earth.
	The notion, the point is that there's form and consciousness.
	And all that has form has some degree of consciousness.
	Human beings have self-consciousness.
	Yes.
	What we might call higher EPs or old souls maybe have a higher consciousness.
	Would you suggest that the Earth and its environment are so complex as to have developed a consciousness?
	That's true also.
	Sure, that there's a collective, that the Earth is not only sort of the rock body, But the interaction between the planet and the different kingdoms residing on and in it, right?
	The mineral, the plant, the animal, human.
	So then, Doctor, so many tribes and so many peoples around the world worship the sun and worship the earth.
	They might not be wrong?
	Yeah, you see, I mean, it's sort of, to me, and without being pejorative, Some of those types of worship or animistic beliefs seem a little childlike, you know, that the sun, you know, danced on the heavenly drum and bounced around, and sort of cute stories.
	But actually, I think they're quite true, in the sense that all that we see represents the form of intelligent life.
	And two things to say.
	One is they're both a little bit esoteric and provocative.
	First one is, when I was looking at the sun the other day, you say that I like to stare at the sun.
	Some of the listeners will wonder, what about my mental health?
	How do you do that?
	You do that safely, I presume?
	I do safe staring, yeah.
	I look at it straight, but I mean, it doesn't, you know... Don't look at the sun straight, folks.
	They tell people you'll go blind if you do that.
	You know, it's an old mystic practice, actually.
	Is everything beginning to dim for you, Doctor?
	Getting dimmer around the edges?
	Well, you know, it seems to be very dark outside when I look out my window.
	Now, it could be because it's 1130 here.
	When I was looking at the sun the other day, not to be recommended for listeners at home, I realized that the sun is a three-dimensional hole in the fabric of the material universe.
	It actually is, if you look into the sun and that bright white light, that's on the other side of the form-based creation.
	Now, that's truly a mystic kind of statement.
	It is, and I don't understand it.
	Okay, I'll leave it on.
	I'll move on to the next one.
	Well, no, don't do that.
	I don't understand the first one.
	Well, it just is sort of like, you know, it's like the near-death experiences that, let's say, Dr. Raymond Moody spoke about, Daniel Brinkley spoke about, right?
	Yes.
	People go down a tunnel and go into the bright white light.
	Yes.
	And that white light seems living.
	It's dynamic.
	But if you keep staring at it, you'll get a tunnel all right.
	It'll be a light in the center with a slowly closing in black.
	That'll be your retinas burning.
	No, no, no.
	I'm not coming.
	There's no ophthalmological basis here.
	We're just trying to have fun with that.
	But it just struck me that on the other side of the 3D or form-based creation that we see with our eyes and our telescopes is the great white light.
	And mystics say the same kind of thing.
	Anyway, it's just the sense that beyond what we can see is that great living light.
	And that's, you know, the same kind of notion that many religions would say.
	But what I wanted to say first, and then I'll let you get back to David.
	You said that the Sun sort of sent that emission so that it glanced off the energetic envelope of the Earth.
	Correct.
	That was the Sun's decision.
	The Sun knows That that is all that the Earth could take at this time.
	I mean, it might even be said to be, in military parlance, a shot across the bow.
	Yeah, actually, in some ways.
	I mean, you know, and we talked about privately that, you know, human leadership knows that eventually that energetic flux is going to hit straight on.
	It's not going to be a broadside every time.
	At one point, when the Earth is ready, when the sun is ready and it's in its own time, We're going to get the full force.
	Well, a pragmatic examination of the odds would say that.
	Yeah.
	But I'm sure that you would imagine it somewhat differently.
	You think the sun consciously didn't shoot us?
	You see, we'll get into this since we have so much time.
	Yeah, we do have time.
	That's good about radio.
	But is that really the bottom line?
	Yeah, my sense is that this planet energetically was not ready and is not ready to absorb, to assimilate that high intensity flux of whatever was transmitted.
	But soon it will be.
	And soon it's not going to glance off, but it's going to come full force And maybe the whole electrical grid will go down for a week or something.
	But, as we'll talk about later, this is simply, it's not only a very interesting physical, astrophysical relationship between the Earth and the Sun, which David will talk about, but it's in preparation for Earth's energetic transmutation, which is the shift of the ages, which is the meaning of the time of global shift, And it has profound significance for every human being on the planet.
	All right, Doctor.
	We've got just a little time before the bottom of the hour, but here's what I want to ask you.
	I talk to many New Age types.
	Okay?
	Many, many men.
	And I don't know if that's a term I shouldn't be using or not.
	New Age types.
	But you're kind of a New Age type.
	Would you admit that?
	If you want to put me into one type, that's one type I could fit into.
	Okay, fine.
	I found that New Age types frequently tend to talk about a shift coming, and they tend to talk of it glowingly, as though it's going to be a wonderful thing.
	And certainly on one hand, a lot of people imagine that major change will result in continuing evolution, or possibly even a giant evolutionary jump for mankind.
	Right.
	That's the positive side.
	Right.
	Now, the not-so-positive side that people like yourselves won't talk about is that, by percentage, Doctor, how many people on Earth right now would you expect to make it through the change?
	You see, now we have to... When you say make it through... Make it through alive.
	You mean in their physical bodies?
	Yes, I do, Doctor.
	In their physical bodies.
	Oh, and now we're getting into...
	You know, sort of a... A bottom line type?
	Well, it isn't a bottom line... Look, I will give you lots of time to tell us how wonderful it's going to be.
	No, no, no, I won't.
	No, it's fine.
	You can.
	You can.
	It's your job.
	But I want to know, physically, how many people are not likely to see the other side of the chain, should it, say, next week?
	Oh, I can tell you that.
	I'd say 99.99% of the people won't take it in the physical body.
	So in other words, put another way, 99.99, I forget how many nines you had in there, but more than I gave you.
	It gets irrelevant, are going to die.
	Physically, physically die.
	Yeah, you see the thing is, this is something that one of the sources of material David and I have used, and it's in the presentation a little bit, called the raw material.
	They said that we're a person in their third dimensional body, Uh, completely exposed to the electrical charge of the fourth dimensional, um, field.
	Yes.
	Um, the body would fail due to electrical incompatibility.
	Yeah, poof.
	Alright, uh, gentlemen, hold on.
	We're at the bottom of the hour as you pointed out.
	We have lots of time.
	I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Falling in love was the last thing I had on my mind.
	Holding you is a warmth that I thought I could never find.
	Just trying to decide.
	Or stay by your side.
	I know I could cry.
	I just can't find the answers to the questions that keep going through my mind.
	I know I could cry I just can't find the answers to the questions that keep
	going through my mind Hey babe, here I am
	I know I could cry Don't cry by the wind
	Thrown around by the wind Thrown down in a spin
	I gave you love, I fought to be I made it to the top, I gave you all I had to give
	Why did it have to stop?
	We arrived.
	Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at area code 775-727-1222.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at area code 775-727-1222 or call the wildcard line at
	775-727-1295.
	To talk with Art on the toll-free line, call 1-800-825-5033.
	toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	It's the weakest link contest on WTM.
	We've got a link up on my website.
	Now, here's a little hint that I should have given you earlier.
	Do not use Netscape.
	You'll never get in.
	Use Internet Explorer.
	For some reason, Internet Explorer gets into their site just fine, and Netscape doesn't.
	So, use Internet Explorer.
	And remember, please remember, in order to vote for me, you actually have to vote for Rick Gilmore.
	You're voting for who you think the weakest link is.
	So you're not casting your vote for me, unless you vote for him.
	There's a lot of people getting it wrong.
	And it's benefiting Rick.
	So... Get it straight, everybody!
	Vote for Rick Gilmore as the weakest link, and in doing so, you vote for me.
	As long as you understand that, go to my website at www.artbell.com And go to What's New.
	You'll see that there as the first link at the very top.
	Alright, my guest, Dr. Scott Mandelker and David Wilcock will be right back.
	This is the end of Side 1.
	Please leave the tape as it is, flip it over, and begin playing again.
	Well, speaking of hamburger, that's apparently what we're going to become.
	Before we get to the better times.
	I just wanted to establish that fact.
	Gentlemen, welcome back.
	Hi.
	I'm ready to tackle that point that you just made about hamburger.
	Yes, yes.
	I would like to basically try to establish a connection between A large and disparate amount of information that is presented on this program and other venues in this field.
	And in order to do that, we need to make a bridge between the physics and the metaphysics.
	Alright.
	As far as I understand it, we have a scientific inquiry and we have a spiritual inquiry.
	Correct.
	Now, it is true, as far as I understand it, that the physical body As we now know it, will not maintain its current status.
	However... That's an interesting way of putting it.
	I said hamburger.
	The only difference with hamburger is that hamburger is a three-dimensional object.
	It still has form, yeah.
	We'll be even less.
	We'll be energy, right?
	No mad cow in this hamburger.
	You know, we're going to be prion-free in the fourth density.
	Uh-huh.
	We'll be batting prions back and forth like a ping and pong, I suppose.
	Let me just jump in if I want to use the term fourth density.
	Yes.
	That's sort of a technical term that some sources, metaphysical sources, use to describe the condition of Earth in the new civilization or Earth's kind of next stage of evolution.
	That now we're in the 3D condition For those mystics in the audience, correlating to the third chakra in the human seven chakra, or energy center system, and that Earth moved into the fourth dimensional condition, also associated with love, or fourth chakra, or the heart.
	So that's the meaning of the fourth density term.
	All right.
	So David?
	Okay.
	Yeah, my understanding of the whole business of the body transmuting That does bring us into some very deep metaphysics.
	I'd just like to start by saying that when I was five years old, I woke up and was floating over my own body.
	And Art, I remember you had an experience like that in Paris, right?
	An instantaneous experience, yes.
	Right.
	Tell us what you experienced for those listeners who don't already know.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	All right.
	Well, I had been doing shows on OBEs for a long time, out-of-body experiences.
	I had never had one up to that point.
	Years of doing them, and my wife and I went.
	We love Paris.
	It's very romantic, even though the French are kind of stubborn, egotistical people who don't know how to cook meat.
	Their country is wonderful, and we would go and we'd sit by the Seine and, you know, just be romantic and have wine and bread and stuff.
	Anyway, I was all off my regular schedule.
	I was relaxed and not the same, you know, sort of pressured day-to-day to do the program and that kind of thing.
	Um, I was totally off my rhythm, and I was lying in bed, and all of a sudden, without notice, and I mean without notice, without wishing for it, thinking about it, without any of the humming or buzzing that people talk about, instantaneously, I was far above the city of Paris, looking down.
	I could see the city of Paris, but believe me, that's not what I was concentrating on.
	That was almost in my peripheral vision.
	I was in this place where I had so much overwhelming joy, and there are not words to describe the intensity of this.
	It was so intense, so intense, totally joyful, and then it shocked me so badly that the next instant, boom!
	I was back in my body, waking up my wife saying, oh my God, you wouldn't believe what just happened!
	And, you know, which is not a good idea to do for any of you who have OBs.
	That's what happened to me.
	Yeah, that's a wonderful retelling, and I thank you.
	When I was five years old, a similar thing happened to me, except that in my case, I was only about three feet over my body.
	And I turned over and saw that my body was continuing to breathe and continuing to sleep, and it was definitely me.
	And another thing that was strange was that my physical body was wearing these pajamas that were yellow and had red cuffs.
	And when I was out of body, I was still wearing yellow pajamas with red cuffs.
	So, what happened in my case?
	And this is the first of probably, I've probably had about 70 or 80 of these OBEs now in my life.
	Most of them have been consciously induced.
	70 or 80?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, most of them are consciously induced through a practice of meditation.
	You've had William Ballman on the show before?
	Oh, yes.
	I read his book, Adventures Out of Body.
	Yes.
	And the techniques that he gave directly precipitated the out-of-body state.
	And like you said, Art, I find it's actually easier to do the quick flash method where you just pop into a new zone than it is to try to, like, get on up out of your body.
	And like actually experience yourself sort of peeling away from your body.
	What I find is the easier way is if you can get yourself to a very very deep state of meditation and then in that moment strongly visualize a particular location.
	Then if you can start it as just like there's a periscope in front of you and you're opening it up slowly like an aperture.
	Yes.
	Then what'll happen is it'll start to solidify and all of a sudden your perception will move there.
	And this gets back to the idea of the shamanic teachings.
	Shamanism worldwide is a spiritual understanding of how to manipulate the energy of the universe.
	And in the shamanic beliefs, such as is recorded in books like The Active Side of Infinity by Carlos Castaneda, we have cases where the shamans are telling us that if you can completely direct your focus of consciousness to a certain area in the out-of-body state, and you can keep it steady, you can stabilize the area, then you can actually end up teleporting yourself to that area.
	And I know that sounds ridiculous, but we have to remember that, like in the case of D.D.
	Holm, here's a guy who lived on the east end of Lake Ontario, and between 1820 and 1860, He could levitate in front of rooms full of people.
	And this was witnessed and recorded by crowned dignitaries throughout Europe by scientific authority figures of the day.
	And no one could disprove what he was doing.
	There were no wires.
	Nothing like that.
	He was able to actually levitate an accordion and have it play by itself inside of a metallic cage.
	He was able to plunge his head.
	Who documented this?
	How do you know this?
	It's well known in metaphysical literature.
	One example would be a book by Colin Wilson called Mysterious Powers.
	So he levitated an accordion and had it play?
	Yeah.
	He could also open up a stove filled with fire.
	And stick his head in the stove.
	No, we don't recommend doing that at home.
	Any more than looking at the sun?
	Of course not.
	Directly.
	All right.
	But he could do that and come out unharmed or put his hands into molten fire and come out unharmed.
	Don't try that either.
	Absolutely not.
	All right, David, you know, Scott is kind of handling most of the metaphysical side of this.
	Maybe you better do a little rehash of, you know, he talked about the Earth and the Sun as virtual living beings.
	Now, maybe you can give us a little bit of the science side, as you did on the last program, regarding the Earth and the Sun and the interaction between the planetary bodies.
	Can you give us a little of the science side of this?
	Why don't I use the discussion that I've started, because I was getting to a point... Absolutely, go ahead.
	...directly into that discussion of science.
	Yes, by all means.
	So, if we have somebody like DeeDee Holm who can do these things, if we have somebody like radio talk show host Art Bell, who doesn't necessarily plan on having an OBE, but wakes up above Paris, I paid specific attention to the feelings that you said that you had when you were up there.
	Yes.
	And what I'm saying is that there are cases in the Bermuda Triangle, for example, of ghost ships where the ship remains visible.
	In other words, there's an area between Puerto Rico, the Bahamas, and Miami, Florida.
	And that's a triangle you can draw between those three points.
	And within that area, at certain times of the year, which are favorable for the vortex, and that has to do with planetary and galactic position, there will be sudden and very noticeable fluctuations in matter, energy, and consciousness.
	Now, sometimes, there are people who have gone through that vortex, and they have not actually disappeared, but they've come back and recorded their experiences.
	These people don't know each other, but yet their experiences that they've recorded are highly similar.
	And the one that I think is the most illustrative of what might be happening here is the case of Charles Wakeley, which is recorded in the book The Bermuda Triangle by Charles Berlitz, published 1974.
	In that book, Charles Wakeley's experience is that he's flying his own private plane, Through the Bermuda Triangle, not really thinking about the fact that it was the Bermuda Triangle, he really didn't know anything about it.
	Right.
	And he looks out either window, and to his surprise, and probably horror, he starts to notice that there is a blue-green luminosity forming on either of the wingtips.
	So his first impulse was, well, I must be going through the Aurora Borealis.
	St.
	Elmo's Fire.
	Sure.
	But something else started to happen at this point.
	All of the electromagnetically driven devices on his aircraft started to experience complete failure.
	And that includes navigation systems, that includes the fuel gauge, which was reading half and suddenly read full.
	Oh.
	Everything.
	He lost everything.
	Okay.
	Now, as he keeps on flying through the air, The light on the edge of the wings goes from blue-green to white.
	And it ends up becoming so intense that it literally engulfs the entire jet and the cabin inside to the point where, as if from everywhere and nowhere at the same time, all there is was blinding white light.
	He could not see anything else.
	He couldn't see his own hands in front of his face.
	Oof.
	Tell me about it.
	Now, imagine what this would be like to experience.
	Well, I guess... I guess I have no way, actually, of... But you do!
	Because... I suppose if my experience is analogous to it, maybe.
	Is that what you're saying?
	It wasn't your physical body you were in, obviously.
	So what was it?
	Well...
	My only question always has been since that incident was what happened to me the product of a conscious living brain and something that we're all able to do this is something I'm leaning toward as opposed to proof ...of existence after physical death.
	Do you see the delineation?
	I understand the... I have personal proof of one, but not the other.
	Right.
	You're drawing off of Matthew Alper's research with the God of the Brain.
	No, I'm not.
	I'm just saying that I have every reason to say this really happened to me.
	It could happen to any conscious living brain.
	But I don't know that that... I have no way of saying it also proves that I will have a Conscious existence after a physical death.
	I understand.
	Actually, of course, it doesn't prove that.
	There's no, there, there, as far as I'm aware, there is no concrete proof that there's existence outside the physical body, because if we, if we experience it through our brain or through our body, of course, it could be a projection or hallucination or, you know, brain chemistry.
	One of many things, but, uh, okay.
	So, one thing is, I don't want us to get lost in the trees and miss the big forest.
	Well, I don't either, but if we're going to go through a global shift and we're going to lose our physical bodies, it's a pretty important question.
	But what David is saying, the connection between some of that sort of energetic, metaphysical, unusual phenomena of the Bermuda Triangle and the time of global shift is that perhaps Earth will be experiencing something akin to what that airline pilot experienced as he was flying through that part of the triangle, which is some kind of heightened energetic transmutation.
	Exactly.
	What happened to that pilot, by the way?
	Charles Wakeley, after it got all bright, in his case, now this doesn't always happen, but in his case, he kept on flying, and the light gradually wore off, And his compass gradually came back, all the electromagnetic instruments resumed their normal function, and eventually he saw the blue-green on the wingtips, and then that disappeared, and then everything was back to normal.
	So it all faded away.
	Yeah.
	Okay, fine.
	But we also must note here that the Bermuda Triangle is famous for what?
	It's famous for people flying into it and not flying out.
	Right.
	However, there are other cases where, for example, Miami Airlines 727 jet goes through the vortex.
	They disappear completely from the radar screen for 10 minutes.
	Okay?
	They were gone.
	I had never heard this.
	When did this...?
	This is also in Charles Berlitz's 1974 book, The Bermuda Triangle.
	For 10 minutes, they did not show up on the radar screen, period.
	Then, they appeared again, and they had not gotten any farther along in physical space.
	What flight was this, please?
	I will look that up for you as I keep talking, because I want to be specific.
	I don't want to misquote anything.
	All right, but it was a major airliner.
	It was a 727 airliner for a major airline.
	Was this in the last 10 or 20 years?
	This would have been, I believe, in the late 60s, early 70s.
	Would that be when they still had skin-painted radar?
	And or, I guess even then they had transponders, right?
	Active transponders?
	I'm not sure what you're asking.
	Okay, airplanes run active transponders.
	In other words, they actually transmit a signal to identify what aircraft they are and what location they're in, as opposed to just radar that paints the skin of an aircraft and finds it that way.
	So, if they disappeared, Then they really disappeared.
	So, if you're able to find that reference, it would be helpful.
	I'm working on it.
	I'm in the chapter right now.
	Okay.
	Anyway, as I go along, I will... I'm going to explain what happened here.
	Okay, what did happen?
	Just go ahead with that because you're coming on a break anyway.
	Here it is, here it is.
	It's a National Airlines 727 passenger plane coming into the Miami Airport in 1971.
	Wow.
	Now, I'll read you actually the excerpt right out of the book here.
	The National Airlines 727 plane landed without incident, and the pilot and crew evinced some surprise over the expressed concern of the ground crew, since, as far as the jet's crew was concerned, nothing unusual had happened.
	By way of an explanation, one of the air control staff said to one of the pilots, Man, for ten minutes you just did not exist.
	It was at this point That the crew checked their watches and the various time indicators in the plane.
	Yes.
	And discovered that they were uniformly 10 minutes slow according to real time.
	Holy smokes!
	So 10 minutes.
	Gentlemen, hold on.
	We're going to pick up on that exact point when we get back.
	Remember we were talking about time the other day?
	Time?
	Ten minutes gone uniformly from all the clocks and all the watches in the airplane?
	Oh my!
	I'm Art Bell.
	I'm Art Bell.
	She's coming in twelve heavy flights.
	The moonlit wings reflect the stars.
	He used to say that it was so easy.
	He used to say that it was so easy.
	But you're trying so hard trying now.
	I know the year and then you'd be happy.
	Just one more year and then you'd be happy.
	But you're crying, you're crying now.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Wanna take a ride?
	Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
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	to the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
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	I think he's a wise man.
	I have no idea how rich he is, but if you had 40 million dollars, what's 20 million dollars to go to space?
	Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
	You know, I've been thinking about the space tourist, Mr. Tito.
	I think he's a wise man.
	I have no idea how rich he is, but if you have $40 million, what's $20 million to go to space?
	Never going to happen to anybody else, right? Not another civilian.
	And so, what's $20 million of your money?
	How much money can anybody use?
	Uh, period.
	How much can they use?
	So what's $20 million?
	What the hell?
	Why not?
	I think Tito's right on the money.
	Glad, glad the Russians did it.
	Now, one more item, and that is the, uh, weakest link voting.
	I need your help here, folks.
	I need your help.
	Remember, I'd forgotten to say, use Internet Explorer.
	It's very important you use Internet Explorer as your browser to go over there.
	What you do is get Internet Explorer.
	Go to my website at www.artbell.com.
	And there you will see, under what's new, the link to the whole Weakest Link thing.
	And what you've got to remember in all this is that the evil Rick Gilmore is the one you've got to vote for as the Weakest Link.
	Do not vote for me.
	Vote for Rick Gilmore.
	And when you do that, you help me.
	It's the whole concept of Weakest Link.
	Ten others have already gone down, and I just found out today that I'm in the finals.
	I didn't even know this whole contest was going on.
	I mean, they've got a whole section at the bottom where it says, goodbye.
	And under goodbye, they've got ten other people that are worried, you know, like Rush and Laura have already bit the dust.
	So you can help me out by going to my website under what's new and just follow the link over and vote for Rick Gilmore.
	He's certainly marshalling his evil minions to go over there and try and tamper with this vote.
	Well, I mean, that's the wrong word.
	That's not fair.
	He's not tampering.
	He's just encouraging his evil minions to vote for me.
	So, I'm encouraging all of my highly evolved minions to vote for the evil Rick Gilmore.
	Anyway, that's it.
	In a moment, we will return.
	Ten minutes.
	Ten minutes.
	Boy, we have talked about time so many times.
	How many times on this program have we discussed this?
	And timeline slips and all kinds of things, and here we've got a National Airlines airliner that goes through the Bermuda Triangle, and then there's a ten-minute differential on all the clocks and watches when they land.
	Incredible.
	All right, back now to my guests, my esteemed guests.
	What a program this already is.
	Dr. Scott Malbecker and David Wilcock.
	Gentlemen, welcome back.
	Thank you.
	Ten minutes of difference on all the watches and all the timekeeping instruments in the aircraft?
	Absolutely.
	Here's the next point I want to advance.
	There is another area That is exactly on the opposite side of the earth called the Devil's Triangle off the coast of Japan.
	I've heard that.
	And that is true exactly on the opposite side, huh?
	That's right.
	And by the end of 1954, in the span between 1950 and 1954, they had nine different ships and several hundred persons missing.
	That includes airplanes as well as marine vessels.
	So what happened was the Japanese government, this is officially now, they put a series of scientists Into a ship.
	The name of the ship was the Kaio Maru No.
	5.
	And on this ship, they had all the appropriate instruments that would be needed to check for magnetic anomalies, gravitational anomalies, and they were also trying to figure out if it might have just been like a whirlpool or a tidal wave or some sort of natural thing.
	Not surprisingly, as they proceeded forward with this investigation, Their ship suddenly vanished, with all the crew and the investigating scientists, and no trace of record was ever found.
	What?
	What?
	Yeah!
	And in the wake of this event, the Japanese government declared the Devil's Sea to be an official hazardous area.
	Huh!
	Now here's the thing that I think is gonna start to open people up to the fact that this is a lot bigger than just two spots on the Earth.
	The Bermuda Triangle is situated 80 degrees west longitude on the Earth, and the Devil's Triangle is located at 150 degrees east longitude.
	Now, when you use a compass in either of these two locations, the compass will be pointing at magnetic north and rotational north at the same time.
	Well, I've heard that in these areas, certainly In the Bermuda Triangle, compasses spin, or have been known to spin, yes?
	Yeah, and that ultimately has to do with the fact that there is a higher level of energy that streams through the planet at these points.
	I'm going to try to move quickly through some of this stuff so we get to the time of global shift and tie this all into the big picture here.
	These are only two points.
	And there was a researcher by the name of Ivan P. Sanderson who in the early 1970s did a massive, massive, massive compilation of data regarding marine and aircraft losses and disappearances.
	In other words, he compiled this incredible amount of data worldwide for as long as he could find and tried to determine with a map and with Little tacks that he put on the map, or some such thing, tried to determine where these points were.
	And he discovered that there were actually twelve points distributed evenly across the Earth's surface.
	They were all perfectly positioned one from the other.
	Now, when you connect twelve points that are equidistant from each other together, you're going to get something that looks a little bit like one of those mirror balls that you see on the disco dance floor.
	If any of us go back that far.
	I don't.
	You're talking about one of those things that casts little blurbs of light all around the walls and the floor and everywhere, right?
	Now those balls are made out of... Each face on that ball would be a square.
	And there would probably be somewhere in the neighborhood of about six or seven hundred squares at least.
	What we're talking about here is a lot simpler than that.
	It's a geometric object.
	Where every face is an equilateral triangle, meaning that 60 degrees, 60 degrees, 60 degrees inside.
	All sides of the same length.
	And there's 12 sides.
	I'm sorry, there's 20 sides.
	There's 20 sides.
	So it looks like a geometric ball.
	Now, you've had Richard Hoagland on the program many times discussing the idea that the monuments of Mars have a complex geometric arrangement.
	That suggests a tetrahedron in a sphere.
	Right.
	What I'm going to propose tonight is that... And may I add one thing very quickly?
	Sure.
	If you imagine a sphere, as in a globe, as in a planet, and you put this tetrahedron inside it, you will notice that all the activity occurs, as he points out, on every planet you look at, at 19.5 degrees.
	That's correct.
	Either north or south of the equator.
	That's right.
	That's correct, yes.
	And that basically has to do with the fact that a tetrahedron has four points.
	That's right.
	And one point will be on either the north or south pole, and the other three will be above or below the equator, depending on the position of the tetrahedron.
	Bingo.
	Okay.
	Now, of course, you can tie in all sorts of phenomena with this.
	The Hawaiian volcanoes, the Great Red Spot on Jupiter, the Great Dark Spot on Neptune, Now, what my research has uncovered, and Richard is certainly aware of this, is that there are a total of five shapes in the category like the tetrahedron.
	They all have the same qualities.
	They're known as platonic solids.
	Okay?
	Platonic because they were discovered, or supposedly discovered, by the Greek mathematician philosopher Plato.
	Now, these platonic solids Um, are a very important part of understanding how the universe works.
	And we've had an increasing number of crop circle formations year after year that are showing us platonic solids inside spheres.
	Now, you could argue, you know, well, these are a bunch of college kids.
	Or this is a bunch of hedgehogs running round and round.
	You know, you've heard everything.
	Doug and Dave, these two guys getting tipsy and going out there and, you know, I'm over Doug and Dave.
	I've seen some of the crop circles, not Doug and Dave.
	So the point is, and this is where we start to tie all this together, these geometric formations are what happens when you have the planet vibrating to energy.
	And let me explain exactly what I mean.
	All right.
	The first researcher to start to test this was Dr. Buster Fuller in around the 1950s.
	Of last century, of course.
	And Fuller's research on the fact that geometry were very fundamental in understanding everything from quantum physics to questions of higher dimensions.
	We also know that Dr. Hans Yenny, and that's spelled J-E-N-N-Y, did experiments in the wake of Buckminster Fuller that are highly fascinating.
	He took spherical areas of liquid, just plain old water, That had particles that were very very fine floating in the liquid.
	Like you might see with milk.
	Milk is called a colloidal suspension because colloids, there's little colloids of fat that actually are floating in water and that's what milk is.
	Now this is a little bit, the colloids in milk are very very fine.
	The colloids in Yenny's solution were a little bit more like sand.
	But basically he would vibrate this sphere of liquid.
	And it would show the platonic solids at different sound tones.
	So, when you see the tetrahedron on a planet, it's as if the whole planet is resonating like a drum.
	Now here's the next thing.
	These vortexes, like what you see with the Bermuda Triangle, like what you see with the Great Red Spot on Jupiter, etc., are areas where a higher vibrational quality of energy is bleeding through To our physical dimension.
	Okay?
	Okay.
	Now, I'm going to put those two things together.
	What happens when you have an energy all throughout the universe?
	An energy that is essentially conscious, and we know this from subatomic particle experiments where the experimenter's expectations change the observation of subatomic particles.
	Yes.
	That's documented.
	Okay?
	The energy itself possesses a form of consciousness.
	When the energy vibrates at a higher speed... Well, the experiments on plants, also.
	Right.
	That's what we talked about last time, the Baxter Effect.
	Yes, absolutely.
	And how this kid has a cheek cell removed from his cheek, and they catch him with a porno magazine, and in the other room, his cheek cell registers the same shock that his body did in the room where they caught him.
	Or, even as impressive, the The scientists who chopped the lettuce.
	I'm sure you've seen that, right?
	Or heard about that experiment.
	And then after a while, the same scientists, other scientists, white coats go by.
	The plant doesn't react.
	The scientist who had chopped the lettuce comes by or is near, and they go berserk.
	Exactly.
	Yes, indeed.
	Now, some people are immediately going to jump and say, well, the plant is releasing some sort of pheromone, some sort of chemical that goes through the air.
	Not true.
	You can isolate these things for medically sealed and it will happen the same way.
	I would recognize the specific doctor in the white coat who had done the chopping versus the others.
	If it's not an intelligent force of some kind, I don't know what it would be.
	Exactly correct.
	Now the point that we're trying to get to here is that what's happening with the Bermuda Triangle is only, and I stress this, I can't stress this enough, it is only because That is an area where a higher level of energy vibration is able to bleed through.
	And what's happening now is that our entire solar system, and I can prove this and we will get into that if we have time, our entire solar system is moving into an area of the galaxy that has a higher level of this same vibration, the same vibration that bleeds through the vortexes of the tetrahedron at 19.5, the same Energy that bleeds through the Bermuda Triangle, the Devil's Triangle, the South Pole, etc.
	This is a unified energetic system.
	And what Scott brings to us is the knowledge of the fact that this is not just something that the ETs are saying, okay?
	Scott will be able to help us understand how this knowledge of energy being conscious, Runs through all ancient prophecies, ancient religious, spiritual beliefs.
	In other words, everybody in the past used to know that this is what was going on.
	Universal knowledge.
	And yeah, we remember that Dr. Malker's degree is in East-West psychology.
	Right.
	So he is certainly qualified to talk on this.
	Absolutely.
	And what I'd like to do is I don't want to have all the microphone time here, so I would like for... No, we'll divide it up.
	Over the next break, when we come back, I'd like for Scott to help us understand some of the metaphysical understandings of these planes, and when we can get a little bit more of a footing on that, and tie it in with your out-of-body experience, Art, and some of the other things that we've discussed tonight, then we're ready to go into an understanding of the implications of what's going to happen to this planet as a result of easily visible changes that are happening with the sun, with the earth, with the planet.
	Okay, may I have a question?
	Sure.
	The changes that you're talking about, is there any way of gauging how quickly they're accelerating and therefore extrapolating a time when all of this will likely culminate in an event?
	Absolutely.
	There are a number of different ways to attack that subject, one of which would be The fact that, as I mentioned in the last program, Mike Lockwood, Dr. Mike Lockwood from Rutherford Appleton National Laboratories, mentioned in his research that since 1901, the total strength of the sun's magnetic field, and a magnet is what attracts metal to itself, the magnetic strength of the sun's field has increased by 230% since 1901.
	And it is geometrically increasing in its overall increase.
	So what that means for us is that since the 1960s, we've jumped 40% of that 230% gap.
	So, and that was research that was done in the 90s.
	So it's like, it's a geometric increase.
	And of course, there are several other ways to look at this too.
	Worldwide volcanism, volcanic activity, has increased by more than 500% since 1875.
	And that's something that a researcher by the name of Michael Mandeville did.
	Hello, Michael.
	And he came about this by discounting all the volcanoes that we didn't have a solid data record for.
	And then he counted the number of total days that they spent emitting ash, emitting lava, Showing seismic behavior, etc.
	There's a 500% overall increase.
	And similarly, in the same fashion, just since 1973... 1975, I'm sorry.
	1973, 1975, I'm sorry.
	Just since 1975, there has been an overall 400% increase in the number and the severity of earthquakes
	above 2.5 on the Richter scale.
	400% just since the mid 70s.
	you.
	Well, you're beginning to build a pretty strong case.
	One more thing, real quick.
	The overall amount of catastrophes, and that involves hurricanes, typhoons, droughts, tornadoes, anything natural that's a disaster.
	Bad weather.
	Calculated by Dr. Alexei Dmitriev, a Russian astrophysicist, Shows that between 1963 and 1993, there has been a 410% increase in the amount of catastrophes worldwide.
	That is an undeniable fact.
	No one can change that.
	So that's the quickening.
	That's the quickening.
	That's the quickening, in a nutshell.
	However, it's not just these It's not just the earth and the sun.
	Actually, that's just a part of it.
	That's the earth changes part of the quickening.
	The quickening is a broader thing than that.
	Right.
	I mean, that's the quantitative.
	Throw it up on a graph and show everybody, hey, look at this.
	Kind of the quickening.
	Whereas there's more subjective things having to do with social deterioration, political changes, economic changes, on and on.
	Every area of human behavior, actually.
	Yeah.
	All right, uh, and Endeavor.
	All right, gentlemen, hold on.
	We'll be right to you.
	You know, I didn't, uh, have as many figures when I wrote The Quickening as, uh, David just rattled off to you, but I didn't need them to know.
	And I'm sure that for most of you, you can feel it, down deep, inside, in your gut.
	You know it's happening.
	We all know.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You take myself, you take myself on the road.
	I, I live among the creatures of the night.
	I haven't got the will to try and fight against the moon tomorrow, so I guess I'll just believe it's not tomorrow, never come.
	I'm living in the forest of a dream I know the night is not how this would seem
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	This is the end of Side 1.
	Please leave the tape as it is, flip it over, and begin playing again.
	Well, this is obviously incredible stuff.
	My guests are Dr. Scott Mandelker, And David Wilcock.
	And together they are making a case in the physical and the metaphysical.
	But the change we're about to go through called the time of global shift.
	It grows closer.
	Gentlemen, welcome back.
	As you would like to take it from here.
	Okay.
	Maybe I'll... What I'd like to do is take further some of what David said about the physical changes, energetic changes, and make an interesting bridge to the metaphysical.
	Sure.
	The first comment I just want to say is that You know, we talk about quickening a lot, and at the beginning of the show I talked about the idea that, you know, the Sun is a being, the Earth is a being.
	There's the quickening of form, and then there's the quickening of consciousness.
	Yes.
	The quickening of form we see in this increased energetic phenomenon within the solar system and the changes of the planet and the Earth changes.
	The quickening of consciousness is actually what we see happening In the community of humanity, in that many, on the positive side, we see more and more people aware of global matters and wanting to help other people, help the world, and, you know, the resurgence of interest in spiritual phenomena.
	But Doctor, both of these things, the physical that David has talked about and the metaphysical that you're talking about, really, it's the same force, isn't it?
	Exactly.
	It's the same thing.
	Now, when we talk about dating, you asked, David, the question, you know, can we extrapolate a projected date to this great kind of transformation or any kind of singular discontinuous event?
	When we look at prophecy and when we look at modern sources, in my awareness, there are not so many sources speaking of a date.
	The Mayans, however, did talk about the date, or the Mayan calendar, called the Tzolk'in, can be understood as projecting the end of this world cycle at the winter solstice of the year 2012.
	Now, which is very interesting.
	Yes, well, it's the end of the Mayan calendar.
	Yeah, and Terence McKenna, a researcher from Hawaii, I think he just passed away, Uh, also projected that, and several other people working from that found support for that notion.
	When we look at other sources of prophecy, mainly we find them in the channeled community, ET channeling.
	Now, channeling, of course, is fraught with all sorts of, uh, delusion and deceptions and people misunderstanding and, uh, some flaky stuff.
	But we see many sources, or many people, claiming to make channeled transmissions, also talking about the time period 2010 to 2013 as this time of what could be called harvest or ascension.
	I want to read a quote, and you won't know who it comes from, but it's interesting, and then we can talk about the source.
	Sure.
	The question was, will the effects of this fourth density Meaning the next vibrational kind of continuum increase in the next 30 years.
	This question was asked in 1981.
	Will we see more changes in our environment and our effect upon our environment?
	The answer is, the fourth density is a vibrational spectrum.
	Your time-space continuum has spiraled your planetary sphere and your star, meaning the sun and the solar system, into this vibration.
	This will cause the planetary sphere itself To electromagnetically realign its vortices of reception of the in-streaming cosmic forces, expressing themselves as vibrational webs, just like the tetrahedron.
	That's my little gloss there.
	Expressing themselves as vibrational webs so that the Earth thus be fourth density magnetized.
	This is going to occur with some inconvenience.
	Read Earth Changes.
	As we have said before.
	Why?
	Due to the energies of the thought forms of your peoples, which disturb the orderly constructs of energy patterns within your Earth's spirals of energy, which increases entropy and unusable heat, i.e.
	volcanism.
	This will cause your planetary sphere to have some ruptures in its outer garment, while making itself appropriately magnetized for force density.
	This is the planetary adjustment.
	That comes from an so-called ET source called Ra, R-A, claiming to have given teachings to the pharaoh Akhenaten, and have basically came in a set of four volumes called The Law of One, published in the early 80s.
	Out of Louisville, Kentucky, Don Elkins was the primary researcher, and it was a group of three people that did this channeling.
	And they make the very important linkage between the electromagnetic transformation of the body of Earth, the consciousness of humanity being what they would call very disharmonious for the last, they say, 75,000 years, creating sort of the conditions in which the planet cannot make this electromagnetic readjustment.
	So, put a similar way, we're bringing it on ourselves.
	There's certainly plenty of history.
	put a similar way we're bringing it on ourselves there's certainly plenty of
	history it doesn't have to be a painful birth
	but it's going to be it already is It already is.
	So, we've got plenty of history.
	We can look back at the disharmonious history of humanity.
	Oh, my God.
	All the way.
	For all the time we have records, it remains disharmonious today.
	Right.
	Although, it's a little better.
	Maybe a little better.
	Well, isn't there some figure that 100 million people were killed in wars in the 20th century?
	Sure.
	Now, when we talk about cycles, we get back to the notion of time.
	It's very important.
	Again, we only have subjective sources, but they have a strong linkage, which David will bring up again, to a very real astronomical, astrophysical cycle of 25,000, 26,000 years.
	Many sources, including the Mayans, talk about a 25,000 to 26,000 year cycle.
	Astronomically, it's called the precession of the equinox.
	Related to the solar system's movement around the 12 zodiac signs, right?
	Right.
	Now we're moving into a sign of Aquarius, right?
	These are just 2160-year cycles, each sign.
	Not such a big deal.
	Many people say, oh, the age of Aquarius.
	In my understanding, that doesn't explain quite what's really happening.
	According to Ra, and according to many other sources, including the Mayans, Humanity is ending its final 25,000, 26,000 year cycle, which represents the end of third dimensional life on Earth, and the beginning of a new age.
	And when we're there in, you know, the Bible, Jesus, who was a very esoteric teacher, whether you're Christian or not, I think, said, the meek shall inherit the Earth.
	And we will have a new heaven and a new Earth.
	This is a metaphorical, veiled way of saying, Number one, only those people who come from love, quality of heart, quality of fourth chakra, relating to fourth dimension, will remain on the earth when we have a new heaven and new earth, which according to the Mayans and Ra and other sources, and in my personal belief, and I think David would agree, and I think many of the listeners actually, will begin very soon.
	And that my understanding is that this new cycle will be completely Established in our lifetimes between the period of 2010 to 2013.
	And that is the global shift and the consciousness factor which brings it back to personal responsibility is the fact that only those of us who are living from love, compassion, kindness, caring, honesty, We'll be able to survive, whether it's physically or metaphysically, it doesn't quite matter.
	Well, you rolled off some numbers, percentages earlier, and that wouldn't be too many of us, would it?
	No, I don't... You see, again, the thing is, the only people who would... And this is another interesting point we can bring in.
	The only human beings living on the planet now who could survive physically would be those who have fourth-dimensional bodies.
	Now, who has a fourth-dimensional body?
	Well, we couldn't see it, obviously, right?
	Ra says something interesting, and there's a book called The Indigo Children, I think, I forget the author, but there are other writings around now talking about these unusual children around the world.
	Yes.
	I think Drunvalo Melchizedek, some teacher, talks about this, and other people, you know, the sort of people, the little kids who come in with magical powers, right?
	Yes.
	Like you saw in the movie The Matrix.
	Correct.
	In my understanding, These children, not everybody, but many of the children around, or some at least, have a fourth dimensional body.
	And they're accessing it unconsciously to make their thoughts real.
	To basically do magic.
	To kind of do, to manifest the powers of a higher dimensional body.
	Those children will, in my understanding, smoothly go through the transition Because they're already living in a fourth-dimensional body.
	They would be what we call double-bodied.
	So they will move through it as if by magic.
	Exactly.
	And, you know, there may be some callers coming in, and I'm calling in, and I've talked to, you know, I do spiritual counseling, and I've met mothers around the country and some other countries who've said, yes, when my child was conceived and during the pregnancy, I had these special feelings or dreams.
	Or my body changed, or I had these insights, and my child is unusually precocious.
	And this is not unusual.
	This is happening all over the globe.
	And this is the hope of the future.
	These children, some of them, some of these children now, are the forerunners of humanity's next step in evolution.
	Alright, is it too soon to ask either one of you?
	On the other side of this 2012, 2013, 2014, whenever we get to the other side, what kind of world will we have?
	Not too soon at all.
	It's not too far away.
	I mean, the quick answer is heaven on earth.
	If you read some science fiction books, they give one indication of this.
	There was a book, I forget the author, It was sort of visions of the future.
	Dreams of the future.
	I forget his name.
	Very sweet man.
	Some of these dreams of the future, they could be categorized into a few main types.
	That's Chet Snow, Mad Dreams of the Future.
	Dr. Chet Snow, yes.
	Dr. Chet Snow, a very aware, very kind man.
	One of the dreams was sort of the pastoral, idyllic, lush, green earth.
	One of them was the high-tech UFOs flying all over the cities, everybody in harmony in crystal buildings vision.
	One of them was sort of the disaster, you know, escape from New York vision.
	My sense is that the Earth will basically return, you know, again, we're talking to Earth's fourth dimensional condition.
	I think it'll be quite idyllic with both high technology, drawing on free energy and, you know, radionics and all sorts of very enlightened technologies in all fields.
	As well as a renaissance of spiritual values, and as well, which will lead us, maybe later in the interview tonight, to the discussion of E.T.
	souls, in the next civilization there will be free interplay between Earth humanity and other dimensional beings.
	And we can already see this happening with the continued increase of claims of E.T.
	contact.
	Oh now, here's where I jump in quickly and I say, I think I talked to David about this.
	I don't recall.
	I think I did, David.
	And it's going to fit right in.
	I talked to a caller.
	A caller called me and said, I see these beings.
	I used to see them in peripheral vision.
	Now I see them full on.
	And he called them shadow people.
	Here comes, I've got a good 5,500, 6,000 emails now from people who are also now saying they're beginning, either have seen them all their lives, saw them as children, or are now beginning to see them.
	It's an exponential growth, there's no question about it, in the number of people that are beginning to see entities, or shadow beings, or shadow, whatever you want to call them.
	Shadow people, I guess.
	It doesn't matter.
	They're seeing things that they've never seen Before something is clearly changing.
	This is the bleed-through between the physical dimension and other dimensions.
	And this is increasing, and will continue all the way up to this time of 2010 to 2013.
	I believe those Jose Escamilla's Roswell rods fall into that category too.
	Rods.
	They absolutely do fall into that category, yes.
	Yeah, and so it's a very magical time on the planet.
	But maybe we'll have time later to talk about it.
	When we talk about human society, in my view, what we see is an extreme polarization of consciousness, both positive and negative.
	And this is another interesting point.
	Do you both, one coming from science and one coming from the metaphysical side, both think that we have eternal souls?
	I would say relatively eternal.
	Well, that's like a little pregnant.
	Well, what I mean by that is... Relatively eternal.
	Yeah, I mean, you see, now we get into the heart of metaphysics, which we can't get into so much right now, but maybe we'll explore more or call her.
	You know, all mystic traditions around the world talk about a human personality.
	Yes.
	Body, mind, spirit.
	Yes.
	And a human soul.
	Sometimes also called higher self, or Atman.
	This human true essence, or higher self, is considered a completed body, mind, spirit entity, a completed being.
	In the Buddhist tradition, it's called a Bodhisattva.
	Bodhisattva is called an enlightenment being, but not yet a Buddha, not yet one with infinity.
	The higher self, which is the essence of the human being, He's aware of oneness, no separation.
	He's aware of joy and has tremendous power.
	And that's why, you know, if we turn within, like all spiritual traditions counsel, we can find answers, we can find power, we can find wisdom and love.
	That comes from our essence.
	Ultimately, though, even that level of our being will be transcended when we move into a sort of joining or fusion in the infinite.
	And then there's no more sense of self at all.
	So that's why I say the higher self is relatively eternal.
	But even that is just the station along the way back to the infinite creator.
	Okay.
	Doctor, you have, uh, your doctorate, uh, is in East-West psychology.
	Right.
	And so you really are uniquely qualified then to answer this.
	Obviously, in the East, uh, this Mindset is already pretty much in place and has been for longer than we've been trolling around in America here.
	Pretty much.
	But here in the West, we have a different view of things.
	It's not the kind of oneness they think of in the East.
	We have Christianity and we have different religions that look at things in a very different way.
	Are these beginning to merge?
	Well, yeah, you see, this is an entirely separate field, which is sort of the impact of Eastern religion on Western culture.
	And let's just say the Buddhist-Christian dialogue, of which there's a tremendous activity in America and has been for the last 30 or 40 years.
	There's certain overlap, and then there's certain areas where they just can't meet.
	Certainly, we have more people in America interested in Eastern religion than ever before.
	There are certain interesting connections between the Eastern view of the cosmos and UFO phenomena.
	Yeah.
	That's just one entire subject, which is that, and we talk about this in the seminar, the Eastern view is of cosmic polarity.
	Cosmic polarity means that there are two paths to the Creator, or two paths for souls to traverse.
	Right.
	On the path of return or their full development.
	Right.
	One is called service to other.
	One is called service to self.
	One involves love and unity and truth.
	The other one, though, involves deception, separation, and control over others.
	I know about that one.
	All right, hold on.
	Both of you, we are at the top of the hour.
	I'm Art Bell.
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	Once again, everybody, my guests, an incredible program if you've been following, and I hope you have, Dr. Scott Mandelker and David Wolcott.
	Gentlemen, welcome back.
	Thank you.
	Hello, Art.
	Alright, take it wherever you want from here.
	Well, what we were saying right before the break was the notion, metaphysically, that there is cosmic polarity.
	This is something that many Buddhists don't talk about, in that, you know, I mean, I have long experience in Buddhism and Buddhist groups.
	They're not interested in UFOs and EPs.
	Okay.
	They're only interested in enlightenment and their total self-development.
	Well, let me stop and ask you a question.
	There must be a change going on, because the Japanese, for the most part, are Buddhists, correct?
	Japanese are, in the last few years, the Japanese have shown an increasing Almost fervor with regard to UFOs and ETs.
	Totally.
	Yeah, see that, you know... Interesting change, huh?
	Yeah.
	Actually, Japan is a very... I have been to Japan many times.
	My first book from elsewhere was translated into Japanese and sold very well.
	And I was there three times a year for the last three years.
	You know, the Japanese, in a certain sense, don't consider themselves Asians.
	And many Asians don't consider the Japanese part of their group.
	Japanese are very forward-thinking in many ways, and I think it comes partly from their sort of strong technological, concrete mental view.
	Yes.
	I had a tremendously positive response there, and found that in terms of UFO interest, there were things on national television in Japan five years ago That were never shown in the U.S.
	That's correct.
	In terms of sightings and underground faces.
	Absolutely.
	I mean, they were in Area 51 before it was ever a big thing over here.
	That is absolutely correct.
	They had camera crews over here, and I met with some of them, so I know it's true.
	Exactly.
	They hold the religion, Buddhism, very lightly, in a sense, while other groups are much stronger, like in Thailand or something.
	Uh, they're a little more, uh, conservative or orthodoxical.
	The Japanese, uh, you know, as they do with, uh, technology and culture, they take what they think is good and they adapt it and make it Japanese.
	And, um, there's a certain kind of openness to, um, very alternative ways of thinking and that's why the youth culture there is so wild in some ways.
	Indeed.
	And, and quite, uh, difficult for the elders over there to figure out or kind of integrate into their old culture.
	But, let me get back.
	The Buddhist view is really that, you know, enlightenment is the only thing that's really important.
	However, in Buddhism, just as in Hinduism, there's a notion of positive and negative spirits, or gods.
	On the positive side, they're called devas, or shining ones.
	That's the Sanskrit word, deva.
	On the negative side, or on the side of what we could call service to self, are what's called asuras.
	Asuras are considered The title, the term means fighting God, jealous God, angry God.
	And it correlates very well with an understanding of sort of benevolent and non-benevolent extraterrestrials.
	Without getting into it too much, to me, this is the only paradigm that really does justice to and explains the full range of human-ET contacts that are happening globally.
	Some are so, you know, incredibly uplifting.
	Their books, you know, E.T.
	healing, and the crop circle phenomenon, and people getting very positive messages.
	And on the other side, you have abduction, and some very scary, unpleasant things.
	By the way, so that I'm comfortable in my mind about this, it might bring David back, I'm not sure, but with regard to crop circles, would either one of you be suggesting that these are from E.T.' 's, or that these are messages from
	The living earth that we have been discussing.
	Let me make a quick comment and then let David carry it on and kind of bridge back to the scientific.
	In my understanding, the crop circle phenomenon, which I think is, you know, 80 or 90 percent not made by humans.
	I agree.
	And not made by hoaxers.
	Right.
	to me represents the most visible and dramatic intrusion and manifestation of supremely benevolent
	extraterrestrial intelligence and consciousness from outside the third dimension.
	And you know, one of the, their prime directive, just as in Star Trek, is non-interference.
	That's because the law of free will, or the notion that souls have the right, given by
	the creator, to choose what they want to believe and whether they want to be or not be a kind
	of cosmic truth.
	To me, the fact that the crop circles keep coming again and again, and I clearly think that they're made by benevolent extraterrestrial forces, to me represents the fact that we're really close to the end of this cycle.
	Because it's such, you know, for anybody in my view, who sort of has eyes to see, it's such a dramatic example of sacred geometry and a cosmic beauty that it's in some sense so obviously non-human that it really skirts the line of sort of infringing on free will because it's a view saying, hello, we're here, you're not alone, Plus, then, of course, there are many, many coded messages in there as to the nature of the solar system and, you know, the human path of evolution.
	We talk about this more.
	We have many, many crop circles, especially from a lady, Denny Clark, in our Global Shift seminar in Chicago and Boulder.
	Maybe David can carry on some of this with the scientific side.
	David, do you agree that these are from benevolent extraterrestrials, or do you imagine A more physical, uh, Occam's Razor kind of reason for these?
	Well, we can slice this one cleanly with Occam's Razor.
	We do not have the technology to do this, period.
	And when you have Linda Moulton Howe on talking about Dr. Gil Levengood, and the clearly obvious signs that the growth nodes of these wheat plants have been heated, and they've bent, but they continue to grow.
	Oh, yes.
	I mean, that's something a lot of people don't realize, is that If you just trample down the grains, then they die.
	But with the crop circles, they continue to grow in the in the swirled configuration.
	Another thing that you don't hear about too much is they've done infrared studies where they have these infrared meters in the plane as they fly over the formation.
	And they've determined that a huge amount of underground water is absorbed At the time that the formation is made, after it's made.
	I have never heard that.
	You can find that on some of the crop circle websites, like Crop Circle Connector, and some of the other ones in that category.
	The important thing is that somehow, someone is using a form of microwave radiation, because the growth nodes have all the signs of being microwaved.
	But here's the thing.
	What would happen, most likely, if you put dry grass in a microwave oven?
	It would burst into flames.
	Sure.
	So somehow, these, what I consider to be extraterrestrial forces, have an energetic system where they are capable of drawing water out of the water table in the ground to act as a catalyst for the heating of the growth nodes of these plants so that they do not burst into flames.
	Alright, well maybe this will go to both of you, but Why is it not also reasonable to imagine that the crop circles are a message from what you both describe, in essence, one way or the other, as a living earth?
	A message of instruction or distress?
	Either one.
	Why is that not an equally probable scenario?
	Let me make an interesting bridge just briefly.
	I think one could probably say That the level of consciousness of the living earth is not dissimilar from the level of consciousness of the elder extraterrestrial community.
	The living earth, as a being of tremendous power and intelligence, is on par with the particular groups that are making these crop circles.
	In harmony with the needed transformation of the planet and humanity.
	Those two things may be actually akin and quite similar.
	That's a really good point.
	What I'd like to say on that point is that we do know from crop circle sightings that the forms that are seen most often in the sky that are associated with these formations are not Saucer-shaped, you know, metallic discs.
	No, they're not.
	They're lights.
	They're energy.
	They're lights.
	Yes, uh-huh.
	Now, Dr. Manilker mentioned this series of five books called The Law of One, which is the work of an entity that calls itself Ra.
	It says that they're from high sixth density, very close to seventh, which is basically almost a complete graduation from any type of having separate consciousness.
	Now, I actually got into reading this stuff about rock, because it's not a very popular channeled material right now, just because it's complex and it hasn't gotten the popularity of like Edgar Cayce or Jane Roberts or some of the others.
	But I found Dr. Manelker's book in 1995 in a bookstore in Albany, New York.
	And he said, in appendix 2 I believe it is, And I can quote this, without a doubt, the raw material is the single most important source of written teaching that I have ever encountered.
	End quote.
	And I said, okay, here's a guy who's laying his PhD on the line, number one, to say that certain people have souls that originate from higher levels of being.
	Other than that, you know, they may not appear to be any different from an ordinary person, but In terms of their temperament, in terms of their attitude and emotions, and in terms of their overall intrinsic belief in a utopia that is possible, these people very much exist.
	And Art, you've had Dr. Bruce Goldberg on many times.
	Yes.
	Talking about time travelers.
	Sure.
	And you have open lines for time travelers to call in.
	Absolutely.
	I do not perceive there to be any difference between Dr. Manelker's phenomena that he calls wanderers and Dr. Bruce Goldberg's phenomena of time travelers.
	Because in this Law of One series, they explain that your higher self, my higher self, we all have one of these.
	It's like your guardian angel.
	It exists in the sixth density.
	That is the equivalent of your own soul millions of years in the future.
	That's what it is.
	You don't have these points in linear time separate.
	When you actually look at the physics of the universe and how it functions in a multi-dimensional spectrum.
	There is no time.
	Time is simultaneous.
	Right.
	All right, before we stray too far from crop circles, one last question.
	Okay.
	And it's a good one.
	Do either one of you have a take on why crop circles are more widespread and complex in Britain than North America?
	This is from Ed in Toronto.
	Good question.
	Yes, I can tackle that one.
	If you If your listeners would like to find out a whole lot more about what I've been discussing, as you said at the beginning of this broadcast, I've put my whole book up there now, Convergence 3.
	It's just been posted tonight.
	And you might want to write this website down.
	It's A-S-C-E-N, S-I-O-N, Ascension2000.com, Ascension2000.com.
	And it's also linked on our site tonight.
	Oh, great.
	Now, once you've got your After Dark newsletter and you get your Kida Slim and Ultimate HGH, get my book, you know, you're all set.
	Oh, and the radio, too.
	All right.
	But here's the thing.
	Here's the thing that I want to address.
	Britain is right on a node of the grid.
	You know how I was talking before about the Bermuda Triangle?
	Of course.
	Britain is right on one of those nodes, and you can see that in the book.
	The reason why crop circles are going to show up there is that there's a higher degree of available energy for them to do these formations.
	So, there's no doubt in my mind that what we're seeing with the crop circle formation dovetails perfectly with the data in the raw books regarding the levels of extraterrestrial beings.
	When you have beings in the fourth or fifth density, or dimension, they usually will have to travel around in some sort of spacecraft.
	When you go up to the sixth density, They say in the raw books that an entity will appear as a point of light.
	And that's what people see making these crop formations.
	Yeah, I know you want to ask a question, Art.
	I just want to link back to the metaphysics, because David keeps talking about densities and densities, and some people are not familiar with that terminology.
	The easy link-in, or link-up, to all the talk of dimensional existence and other groups beyond the physical, Is, again, the relationship to the chakra system or the Eastern understanding of the energy centers in the human anatomy.
	These are not physical centers, but they're energetic and relate to states of consciousness.
	And according to many sources, mystic sources as well as Ra and some other groups, souls progress through dimensions according to their level of consciousness.
	And that there are discrete cycles of evolution for souls at particular dimensional levels.
	And the connection to sixth density is sixth chakra, or third eye, in the center of the forehead, like the Indian ladies put the red dot there.
	The notion is that that represents the state of unity.
	That represents the state of sort of enlightenment, the relative enlightenment that I talked about as the higher self.
	Yes.
	Humanity, and where we get the distinction now between, without being elitist, the distinction between the native population of Earth, Humanity.
	And those people who consider themselves E.T.
	souls is that 98.5% of the people here are basically working from third chakra into fourth, moving into love.
	But those people who consider themselves E.T.
	souls would say that they're old souls.
	You go to any psychic down the block and she'll say, maybe, you know, you're an old soul.
	What does it mean?
	It means that that's a soul or a being who's not native to this soul group on Earth and who is coming from life Relating to a higher center, like 4th Chakra Love, 5th Chakra Wisdom, 6th Chakra Unity or Enlightenment.
	Well, minor complaint here.
	You never hear of anybody going to a psychic, and the psychic saying, Whoa!
	You're really a new soul!
	Talk about unevolved!
	I mean, that's what worries me, that along with channeling.
	Channeling has always worried me for reasons I've articulated before.
	And I'm not saying there isn't something really to it, I'm just saying that There's too much opportunity for fraud, which worries me.
	And then, so the same sort of thing applies, really.
	I mean, you never go and get told you're a new soul.
	How come?
	Well, first of all, I wouldn't trust what every psychic says.
	I mean, information from psychics is sort of notoriously polluted or tarnished by their own personal agenda.
	And the same thing with channeling.
	It's just too easy to do and to claim that it's coming from somebody other than yourself.
	That's right.
	I mean, honestly, I mean, you know, I've read dozens of channel books and met channels and everything.
	Most of them, I think, are relatively distorted.
	And most channels, you know, I think, can't really tell the difference between information that comes from beyond them The information that really is just their own thoughts.
	Here, here.
	Gentlemen, hold on.
	We'll pick up right there when we get back.
	Yeah, it wouldn't be so easy to do.
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	Well, these two opened up the subject of time travel, and so I'm going to ask a question in that area.
	I think once you open the door, you're allowed to walk in.
	We'll see what they have to say.
	Time travel.
	And time shifting.
	Because I just have this feeling.
	This is the end of Side 1.
	Please leave the tape as it is, flip it over, and begin playing again.
	Alright.
	Well, I don't want this to take anybody off track.
	My guests are Dr. Scott Mandelker, who's taking the metaphysical side of it, and David Wolcock, who's taking the scientific side of our discussion about global shift, the time of global shift.
	And this may be a cog in the wheel.
	I don't mean it to be that.
	But you did mention you opened the door to time travel.
	And I think it's absolutely logical that if we survive long enough, if mankind survives, There will be time travel.
	There may time travel now.
	And so therefore, there is time travel now.
	Assuming that some small percentage of humans survive, eventually time travel will be a reality, which means it is now.
	Which also opens the possibility of the following.
	The manipulation of timelines for specific reasons, E.T.
	or human.
	Now, I've been running into a lot of people lately It's almost like the shadow person thing.
	People having memories, not very strong memories, but memories of things the way they are not now.
	In other words, as an example, the Germans won World War II.
	As an example, Mandela died in jail, didn't become free to run South Africa, or I could go on and on and on.
	Historical things that people remember Happened in a very different way, but they remember it not as a surface memory, but as a nagging memory.
	You know, damn it, it didn't happen that way.
	I remember it some other way.
	So if somebody is out there toying with events in time for some manipulative reason, we would expect to find what we're getting.
	Anybody?
	Anybody?
	Let me, let me tackle that one.
	All right.
	This ties in directly with The new-slash-ancient paradigm of hyperdimensional physics that is exposed in a wide berth of data, and that goes all the way back to the supposedly Atlantean vision of Hermes, or Sucermes Trismestigus, which is the backbone, incidentally, of the Freemasonry.
	And in that vision, A dragon came before Soothermes, and the dragon called itself Poimandrus, and it indicated that it was a symbol for the universal mind.
	Now, this dragon told Hermes, among other things, that the universe was composed of spheres of existence, and that there were eight spheres altogether.
	Now, the Hindus They date themselves as being 18,000 years old in terms of the oldest scriptures, the Vedas, which are probably the oldest documents that we still have on Earth that we can read now.
	And in the Vedas, they describe... Scott was mentioning earlier the chakral systems.
	Yes.
	They describe those chakral systems, and they indicate that the chakras And this does tie in with time travel.
	I'm not making a tangent here, believe me.
	The chakras actually correspond to levels of our being that actually are directly linked with those seven or eight planes of existence.
	So, this sounds a little bit complex, but the idea is that If you were able to look at a person on the energetic or soul level, you would see their aura.
	And you would see that there are these seven centers where energy streams in and out.
	The esoteric teaching of the ancient Hindus is that we have a different energy body for each plane, and they all exist in potential right now.
	Bearing that in mind, they also indicated that The chakras are related to music.
	Because if you play the white keys on a piano, you'll have an octave.
	And that's basically eight notes.
	You have eight chakras.
	Seven, and then the next one begins the next octave.
	And in an octave, as far as the sound frequencies go, you could have an A that's 220 cycles per second, and if you double the number of cycles, And that's just air vibrating, that's all that a sound is, is the vibrations of air.
	You double that cycle from 220, it goes up to 440, that's the next octave.
	So it's a very simple definition.
	But how are you getting from there to time?
	I'm still not sure.
	Right, that's what I'm working up to.
	The Hindu faith also made the connection between sound, color vibrations, Which, Dale Pond has done a great job in Physics of Love, and Geometry.
	Okay?
	And Richard Hoagland always talks about the tetrahedron.
	My understanding is that the tetrahedron represents one plane of existence.
	Now, there's a different geometry for each plane, and there's something that Ra refers to as the spiraling line of light that connects the nodes, or the tips, of these geometries together.
	And this is how we get back to time travel.
	I'm going to give you a simplified explanation so that it's easier to visualize.
	Let's say that you have, like, seven strings, okay?
	And I'm talking just regular, ordinary strings, and you lay them down on your kitchen table, and each one of those would represent a timeline.
	Right.
	And let's say that you're also going to tie knots across the width of those seven strings in certain places.
	Alright.
	In the places where you tie the knots, all the strings are in the same spot.
	And that represents what, in Ross terminology, would be a probability vortex.
	Okay?
	Okay.
	Now, the idea here is that time is just as geometric as space.
	Time is actually something that has a structure, And that's where we get into the effect of geometry on financial markets, which we'll probably have to do in a different program or something.
	Indeed.
	But that's a fascinating, fascinating study.
	Well, I guess my question is this.
	Are you suggesting that manipulation of events ultimately is not really possible?
	It is and it isn't.
	And I'll explain why.
	I have to answer that question wishy-washy like that.
	Well, I don't know if I can... You can answer it that way if you want.
	I don't know if I can accept it.
	What I'm ultimately wanting to ask here is, you're talking about a time of global shift that's getting very close.
	If we wanted to change the outcome of that shift, Time travel and manipulation might be one way of doing it.
	If, on the other hand, time is a rubbery sort of resilient thing that is not going to really, in the long run, allow change, then I give up on my question.
	Actually, I've laid out the perfect framework to answer your question.
	You're going to see how beautifully it's all going to pop together right now.
	Now what I want you to do is Have more strings than just seven.
	Sure thing.
	And I want you to suggest to yourself that maybe if you have these seven strings and they've got knots in them along the way.
	Yes.
	That you're going to have the knots tied every two inches on one length of string.
	And then you'll have another group of seven strings where you tie the knots together every three inches.
	You'll have another group of string where you tie the knots together every five inches.
	There are going to be certain points in the way that this time stream works where you tie together nodes from more than one string because they're both falling at the same point geometrically and time-wise.
	Now here's the deal.
	Here's the deal.
	December 22nd, 2012 is the time that is like a black hole of timelines.
	It is a total implosion of the space-time matrix as we now know it.
	All of the wires.
	All of the strings.
	They all are tied together on that one node.
	It is a point of singularity.
	It is a point that the Maya referred to as a point of no time.
	Okay?
	Now, what that means is that you can, to a certain degree or another, jump in on the timeline If you're an extraterrestrial multi-dimensional being, you can jump in on the timeline, alter some events, and make a more positive outcome.
	And that's what I believe work-like the raw material is.
	That's what I believe these crop circles are.
	However, all you can do is steer the mass consciousness toward that node.
	When the node actually hits, You cannot turn it back.
	In other words, there's no way we're going to stop this.
	You can't change the fact, at least no one person could change the fact that we're seeing a 400% increase in earthquakes just since 1975.
	Right.
	No one person could change a 500% increase in volcanism since 1875.
	No one person could change a 410% increase in catastrophes from 1963 to 1993.
	Right.
	increase in volcanism since 1875, no one person could change a 410% increase in catastrophes
	from 1963 to 1993.
	The only thing we can do as people who are trying to uplift humanity, and you're certainly
	doing a great job of it with this coast-to-coast AM radio program, is to do something about
	The only thing we can really do is to try to draw out of people a higher degree of love and a higher degree of wisdom.
	And wisdom teaching and mystery teaching ties into everything that's on this program.
	In other words, When people hear about a mystery, when people hear about something that fascinates them, even if it really has nothing to do immediately with soul growth, it opens their mind to the possibility, okay, maybe there is a ghost.
	Maybe there's more than just my physical body.
	Does my identity end with the boundary of my skin to the air around me?
	Right.
	Or am I more than my physical body?
	So, when you get to that point, which is like the gravity well for timelines, The only thing that matters is how far somebody has come with their soul development.
	But at that point, you know, time is linear in the sense that when you hit that point, you can't turn back.
	This energy comes out of the sun, kind of like the coronal mass ejection that missed us recently.
	You know, when the final one hits us, let's not forget that in 1989 we had one that was 300% less powerful than the one that just went by.
	And that deviated the Earth's magnetic field by 8 degrees.
	And it collapsed the Canadian power grid.
	Yes.
	And that's also an energy of consciousness.
	And that's why, when you have periods of high solar activity, you have some more mundane things that change, such as the degree of carbon-14 radiation in tree rings, the advance and decline of alpine glaciers, overall global temperatures, but you also have The advance and retreat of civilizations, and the quality of civilizations, and the economic caliber of civilizations.
	So, solar activity is consciousness activity.
	When the Sun decides that the Earth is ready for this shift, it will allow the energy that it's moving into in the galaxy, and this is an elaborate hyperdimensional system that we're not going to have enough time to really explain, But the sun is going to allow that energy to enter into the time-space and space-time continuum, which is basically just what's around us in the solar system.
	At that moment, you will sort of dissolve into a place where there's no time, just like those people in that Bermuda Triangle vortex that I mentioned earlier tonight.
	They lost ten minutes.
	Okay, that's just like a little blip on this screen, but when that vortex opens up, All you've got is like what you claimed as a soul in terms of your overall vibration, okay?
	Because this is one of the biggest esoteric teachings that is mirrored both in the ancient stuff and in the modern, reputable channeled communications, and that is that the more progress that you make towards aligning your own vibrations with those of the infinite, of the oneness, of whatever you consider God to be, the more you can align your vibrations with that, The more that you will be capable of withstanding the energy of the universe, so that you can live in a higher plane.
	If you don't have, if you're, and this is not, there's no judgment here at all.
	It's so important for people to remember.
	It totally doesn't matter if you're a Buddhist, if you're a Hindu, if you're a Christian, if you're into Islam.
	Well there is a judgment of kinds, of sorts, yes there is.
	I don't think so, Art, and the reason why I don't think so is that this is a purely energetic process.
	In other words, if you're not ready, then you'll go to a place that's better suited for you.
	Right.
	Scott, do you want to say something on that?
	Well, maybe Art wants to say something.
	Well, it's a judgment of kinds.
	I mean, we're just playing with words here.
	If you're not ready, then you're not You're not going to pass, go.
	I'm trying to keep things simple for everybody.
	It's not like your soul is annihilated.
	You will definitely, according to what Ross says, and we have no scientific way to prove this, but according to what Ross says, they have been, figuratively speaking, working their butt off to prepare another Earth.
	Well, there's no judgment implied in the sense that all of us have free will to choose the way we want to live our life.
	What we believe, what we don't believe.
	But the link here is that consciousness is energy and interfaces with form and with body.
	And as consciousness develops, so too do our bodies develop and so too does our energy field change.
	And the universe is sort of, in my view, it's non-moral.
	It's not saying right or wrong, good or bad.
	But there are requirements for evolution of souls to proceed with planets into their next dimension.
	The notion about time is that time and space are both relative matters, forms of matter, actually, dependent on consciousness.
	And so there's the multidimensional universe of many dimensions all existing at the same time, as well as the multidimensional self, and that's Why there can be a sort of experience of one's future, or an experience of an alternate human history, is that we're experiencing different levels of our own self and the collective consciousness of Earth.
	Alright, gentlemen, this time of global shift, as it approaches, you said, around 2012 to 2013 at the outside, There's going to be an instantaneous change that you've described, but it seems to me that between now and then, there's also going to be a gigantic change.
	In other words, a lot are not going to even make it to that instant of judgment is the wrong word.
	Change, I guess, is a global shift, whatever you want to call it.
	A lot are not going to make it to that, because the exponentially increasing Earth changes Are going to take an awful lot of people out, Twix, now and then.
	Yeah, I think that that may happen.
	I mean, you know, when you get into the metaphysical community, there have been, like Casey, made certain predictions that haven't come true.
	But what do you mean, may happen?
	It is happening.
	No, no, I'm just saying that the severity of Earth changes up to the present is less than was predicted in the last 20 years.
	Although, if you listen to what David had to say earlier, We're not doing all that bad either, in terms of the exponential change.
	Well, I mean, you know, I'm very sympathetic to the view that there will be tremendous physical upheaval in the next 10 years.
	I mean, I really think that that's quite possible and likely.
	And I agree, you know, it's hard to say how many people will be in their physical bodies 10 years from now.
	In terms of the relationship between gradual upgrade and instantaneous transformation, to me it's very much like adding energy to the orbiting electron in an atom.
	The electrons remain at a particular orbital level, or a shell level, for a certain amount of time while they increase their rotation, their orbital speed.
	But when a certain amount, when a certain threshold of energetic excitation has been reached, they pop out to a new orbital shell level.
	That happens when they absorb photons, which is light.
	Yeah, and that's exactly what's happening now on the Earth.
	Meaning that the planet itself is absorbing a continually higher intensity or frequency of energy, and that's why we see all sorts of changes happening in society As well as the, you know, individuals, you know, losing it as well as sort of getting it together.
	Well, some finding it and some losing it.
	Both aspects in society right now increasing.
	True.
	All right, gentlemen.
	Hold on.
	You good for the final hour?
	Yes.
	All right.
	I'll begin to pay attention to the fast blast questions in the final hour.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM in an ever-changing world.
	Well I think it's time to get ready To realize just what I have found
	I have been only half of what I am It's all clear to me now
	Thanks for watching!
	Thanks for watching!
	Want to take a ride?
	Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	to the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	And to reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
	It certainly is.
	Dr. Scott Mandelker and David Wilcock are my guests, and we're talking about something pretty big, the time of global shift.
	Not only pretty big, but pretty soon, and we'll be right back.
	All right.
	Some of this, gentlemen, in the last hour or so has been pretty complicated stuff.
	If I can, I want to let some people ask questions, and let's do that through fast blast.
	One question is from Bob in Los Angeles.
	The grid points that you talked about, are they the same things that others know as ley lines?
	Oh, absolutely.
	Various cultures all throughout time have been able to see these psychically.
	The Polynesians call them Taipa or line of light, the aborigines call them
	green paths, the Chinese call them dragon lines or qi lines, and of course the Indo-European
	cultures have been known to call them qi lines. It's all one and the same thing and these
	are actually physically tangibly visible if you have the ability to see with the higher self. So yes,
	the answer is yes. All right.
	If someone can manipulate time and consciousness, should we be worried about someone
	manipulating it for evil as well as good?
	In other words, we are made up, as you pointed out earlier, of evolved and not-so-evolved.
	If the not-so-evolved were to get a technology, which in the world's history The un-evolved have been able to get hold of the same kind of technology the evolved have.
	Yeah, let me answer that.
	Maybe, David, you could say something.
	Yeah, we can both tackle this one.
	You know, my view of humanity on Earth is like children in the playroom of a large mansion.
	The children in the playroom, some of them are kind, some of them are mean.
	However, this drama is only occurring in one particular room of the mansion.
	Because of the law of free will, the beings who could intervene to stop evil or stop negativity, like all the wars of the last century, are actually restrained by their adherence to letting the children play or create havoc among themselves.
	However, they won't let the children burn down the mansion.
	And so the scope of negative interference or manipulation in human affairs, in terms of time manipulation or anything like that, or, you know, sending in evil forces and all of that, it's restrained very significantly by those beings who are actually at levels of consciousness even far beyond the Greys or all of the negative groups that we've heard about.
	And so... So the evolved prevail.
	Yeah, the universe, you know, the thing is that negativity, or the service to self-path, exists actually only within the limited range of dimensional points in this octave, or in this sphere of evolution for souls.
	And there are beings far beyond those negative groups who oversee the whole process.
	And so people have asked me, well, you know, what about the possibility of Humanity negative forces annihilating the planet.
	Yes.
	Oh yes.
	The notion of Maldek.
	Yes.
	Seeing a planet that became the asteroid belt.
	And again, I think, you know, they'll let the kids destroy the playground, but they won't let them burn down the house or the neighborhood.
	All right.
	And so I don't think it'll happen.
	All right.
	Can I say a little bit on that?
	You may.
	As far as I understand the teachings of Ra, and I've been studying them on pretty much a daily basis since 1996, there is a certain degree of infringement that can occur on a person from negative forces.
	But I want to make a very, very clear point about that.
	And Scott alluded to this quite directly.
	The way that the universe is set up, the way these laws function, is that there's a primary law Which supersedes all the others.
	And that law is the law of free will.
	In fact, Roth says that in the beginning, there was only this one consciousness, which we would call God, or an ultimate being, and the free will was what allowed there to be the choice to separate, to break up into what we now call galaxies and stars and planets, and then eventually those planets to sprout life like we have.
	That's sort of the chain of evolution from the top to the bottom, so to speak.
	Now, here's the thing.
	Free will is, although it's difficult to explain scientifically, free will is an inviolate law, and there are very complex procedures through which these higher dimensional beings who sort of oversee the playground and the mansion guard against the infringement of free will.
	But here's the rub, here's the catch-22, or if you want to use another numerical metaphor, the $64,000 question.
	That is, if you make a free-will decision to do something that's going to hurt someone else, to do something that is service to self, which as far as I understand it is manipulative behavior, controlling behavior, you invite a negative influence to give you A reflection, a mirror reflection of your own actions.
	Alright, then here's where Sherman's question from Cupertino, California fits in.
	He says, your guests seem to have omitted a creator in their thinking, yet they mention free will.
	Where does that come from?
	The raw dude?
	The raw dude, yes.
	They hear you talk about consciousness and one, oneness.
	But they don't, they're not connecting this to any discussion of a creator.
	Yeah, I mean, you know, in that big metaphysics, my understanding is that the whole creation is the body of the creator.
	And the laws are basically the patterns of mind of the creator.
	So the creator and the creation are one.
	And ultimately, all is an expression of the one infinite creator.
	Yeah, I mean, I definitely have a view that there's a Creator, and I think David would agree, but that Creator is all things, and it's just a matter of consciousness developing to the extent that it's aware more and more of the infinite scope of that Creator or the Self.
	The Self and the Creator are ultimately one.
	I'd like to just tell everybody who's listening that our goal here is to try not to sound evangelical.
	Um, this has very much been talked about by fundamentalist Christians and by other very sectarian belief structures.
	Um, and Art, you know, just last week when you had James von Praga on, I heard you say you're not so sure about the Christian God and you were just being frank.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	I think that the whole concept of heaven and hell is highly distorted.
	I think that the average conception of God is very anthropomorphic, meaning very human-centered.
	My understanding is that the true nature of the creation can be expressed in the physics, and that is the fact that if you look at the visible structure of the universe, we have evidence now, very strong evidence, that the whole universe is like a gigantic galaxy.
	That there's these superclusters of galaxies that are structured in these gigantic arms, and the whole universe is one giant galaxy.
	Now, that same structure can be harmonically subdivided all the way down to the quantum level.
	That's what my book talks about.
	The energy field around a planet, the energy field around our solar system, the energy field to make up the atoms, they all have the same structure.
	That shows us unity.
	That shows us the presence of God is everywhere, in everything.
	All right.
	Ted in Toledo, Ohio asks, if the Earth and the Sun are beings, Do they communicate with each other?
	Yeah, of course.
	And, you know, that can be shown physically, as David had talked about, in terms of the electromagnetic sort of feedback loops or relationship between the two entities.
	Yes.
	For sure.
	Maybe David could say something, but maybe not too long, David, so we get more questions in.
	Absolutely.
	There is, of course, a feedback loop going on between the Earth and the Sun.
	Edgar Cayce readings said, and this was back in the 20s and 30s, that the amount of sunspot activity was directly related to the amount of discord on the planet.
	My understanding is that if you go back to the Vedic tradition, which again is the Hindu writings that are dated, they've dated themselves as 18,000 years old, they say that everybody comes from the sun, including the planet.
	So we are all sort of offspring of the sun, and Ra calls the sun the Logos.
	And as I understand it, the sun is like our own sort of gateway to the infinite.
	It's our own microcosm of the macrocosm, if you will.
	So the sun is very much the highest level of being, if you will, in our solar system.
	And in that sense, the Earth sort of takes the lead that the sun gives.
	So the sun talks and the Earth listens.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	Clint in Soldotna, Alaska asks, Or states, I guess, and it's a question.
	The spiral comes to an end, and thus a new beginning.
	Is that what David is saying?
	Yeah, I mean, what's happening here, I know that my explanation probably sounded a little abstruse, because it's hard to explain something.
	I've actually never had to answer a question like that on the air before.
	The timelines, the way that we need to understand this is really quite simple.
	The galaxy has Yeah.
	Art, you've seen a magnet, and you've seen the flux lines around a magnet.
	You ever do that experiment when you're a kid where you put a magnet under a piece of paper and you see the iron filings and they make lines?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	The galaxy does that.
	And where each one of those lines are, there's a different quadrant of energy.
	My research, which is way too complex to talk about tonight, has emphatically determined that there are exactly 8,640 zones In the galaxy.
	What's happening to us is that we're moving into a zone that's amping up the total energetic quality.
	If you look at the heliosphere, which is this sphere of energy around our solar system, you look at the leading edge of the heliosphere, that's what is blowing into the galaxy, the energy in the galaxy, okay?
	There is an area of excited energy, or plasma, at the front, and historically it's been measured as ten astronomical units.
	An astronomical unit being 93 million miles, which is the distance between the Earth and the Sun.
	Right.
	Yes.
	That has increased by a thousand percent in its depth.
	It is now a hundred astronomical units instead of ten.
	That shows us, unequivocally, that we're moving in one area where the energy is higher.
	That's what's collapsing the timeline, but it doesn't mean that all time stops.
	It just means that we reach this temporary node Where there's no time, but then it kicks in at the higher frequency level.
	Randy San Diego asks, are these guys saying my stuffed animals are really every bit as alive as the being part of the earth?
	As what?
	The being part of the earth, or the conscious part of the earth.
	You know, an inanimate object that's made by humans doesn't have, obviously, the same consciousness as a rock or a plant or an animal.
	Yes.
	It's interesting.
	It's actually said that in the next cycle, or when we move into its new condition, the artifacts of humanity will disappear, because they basically are temporary, sort of third-dimensional structures.
	Absolutely.
	Without, sort of, the seven-fold body of beings.
	As to all that is sort of the natural order, starting from minerals and elements, yeah, they all have all levels of consciousness in potentia.
	It's just a matter of what levels of consciousness have been activated.
	And one way of looking at the transformation or shift of Earth is that Earth is activating its own fourth-dimensional body.
	And only those people who have activated their fourth-dimensional bodies, or have them, Let me say one quick sentence on that, and that is, if somebody has like a pet rock or a crystal that they hold with them, their focus of consciousness can imbue that mineral with a higher degree of vibration, and hence more life in universal terms.
	Amy in Texas asks, and it's a good one, if we're all inevitably headed towards some destiny We have no control over.
	Isn't the concept of free will a big cosmic joke?
	Yeah, that's a really good question.
	Yeah, it is a really good question.
	Well, you know, the thing is, you can't understand free will, you know, you can't understand how our conscious mind has free will as we're approaching this relatively fixed event, which is a cosmic matter, not a human matter.
	You can't really understand What free, where free will plays a part if you don't understand the multidimensional self?
	According to that type of thinking, metaphysics and ageless wisdom, all the souls on Earth chose to be here now at this time.
	All the souls here chose to be part of this dimensional experience and this transition.
	What we can choose further is simply how we make use of the energies available and our daily experiences.
	But the transformation is a cosmically ordained event, and yet you have to really understand sort of the trans-incarnational, the multi-incarnational self that takes the body and leaves the body and takes the body and goes over time, to really understand how there is no infringement of our free will for being here on the planet at this time, facing a pretty much fixed cosmic event that's heading towards us.
	Let us assume the fixed cosmic event headed toward us.
	Khan in Soldat, Alaska asks, what about this?
	Shouldn't we have a good cave when the big flare hits?
	In other words, couldn't some people anticipating this, particularly in the final stages, take physical action that would allow them to come out the other side despite the unevolved nature of their souls?
	I want to do that one.
	We're very, very attached to the physical body.
	Yes.
	But, Art, you know, you mentioned your OBE earlier tonight, and you mentioned how ecstatically euphoric it was to be out there.
	Yes.
	Okay?
	This is not like a death.
	The experience that people are going to have, the way that it's been described to us, there's no scientific way to talk about this, but what we've been told is that it is not at all painful You don't even notice that you're actually losing the body because what happens to you is an experience that is tailor-made to be the most awesome, the most awe-inspiring, the most inspirational, the most uplifting, the most joyful thing that could ever happen to you, the most religiously symbolic and significant.
	What happens is you make a free will choice of whether you're going to go into this or If you choose not to go into it, and let's say that you did happen to go through an area where you didn't get hit by the solar flare, you're going to have to contend with the Mad Max type of stuff that'll happen as the third density is clearing out.
	Ah, that period of time where the living would envy the dead.
	You know, that is what you're talking about, isn't it?
	Basically, yeah.
	Well, there has to be a distinction made between The events that occur up to this transformation point or harvest or ascension and the nature of the transformation itself and what's on the other side.
	Sure, somebody can go into a cave or go underground or do something to preserve the physical body before this discontinuous event or this sort of flash of transformation.
	Uh, sure.
	And solar flares are contributing to the upgrade of the planetary energetics leading up to that event.
	After that event, either you have the 4D body, fourth dimensional body, or you don't.
	And, you know, we shouldn't forget that, you know, the Christian symbolism is of a rapture.
	You know?
	Yeah, I know.
	I take it that both of you would not be surprised when you would hear that a remote viewer has said that There's a certain point, right around 2012 or 2013, past which they cannot see.
	They call it a discontinuity.
	That's the implosion of the timeline.
	Yes, right.
	The implosion of the timeline.
	Alright, you two, hold on.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	I'm Art Bell.
	You know, this fits so well as I was listening to it.
	Listen to the words.
	You know we could, you know we could.
	If we wanted to.
	You know we could, you know we could.
	We could exist on the stars.
	If it's so easy.
	Oh we gotta do.
	I was just thinking to an earlier part of the conversation.
	Remember that?
	The ones that'll make it to the other side will make it as if by magic.
	Wanna take a ride?
	Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	And to call out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	Oh, baby, only you believe I got it.
	My guests are Dr. Scott Mandler and David Wilcock.
	Some of it has been pretty deep and hard to understand stuff, but in the end, I do understand what they're saying, and I do understand how it bears on so many other programs that we've done.
	Can you feel it coming?
	This is the end of Side 1.
	Please leave the tape as it is, flip it over, and begin playing again.
	Alright, here's somebody who argues with the entire premise, I think, with this
	Lola in Oregon asks, The random nature of our universe scares people so damn much that they need a Ra or whatever.
	And it's thumb-sucking, that's all it is.
	I don't think that the universe is that random.
	I mean, you know, when we talk about geometric structures on, you know, structures of energy flow on other planets of the solar system relating to certain things on Earth and the Spirals, shapes, and things just don't seem to show randomness at all to me.
	One of the things that I've discovered in my work, which we really don't have much time to talk about, is the fact that the ancient Sumerians, and you're going to love this, this was mentioned by the way on a program with Whitley Streber with Colin Wilson as a guest.
	Right.
	Our solar system, the ancient Sumerians had on their clay tablets A whole bunch of numbers that were very long, multi-digit numbers.
	One of those numbers was determined by an ex-NASA astrophysicist named Maurice Chatelain to be a number that encompasses all the planetary orbits, right down to the second.
	And let me explain what that means as simply as I can.
	You could take the orbit of Mercury, or the orbit of Pluto, or any of the planets in between, And they will be exact multiples of this number right down to the second.
	So like, let's say, the master number for Pluto is 25,000.
	So if you take this big number that the Sumerians discovered and divide it by 25,000, you will get the exact orbit of the planet Pluto right down to the second, which comes out to about 90,720 days.
	And the galaxy works the same way.
	That's my discovery that I've termed the Wilcox Constant.
	Because it turns out that this Sumerian cycle, there's exactly 36 of them in the galaxy.
	No more, no less.
	It goes right down to the second.
	Now, in the conventional model, the planets in the solar system, based on chaos theory and current understandings, it's believed that they're just going to scatter and go random and that nothing is holding them in place.
	What we need to understand is that we only see a very small part of the mechanism in
	the solar system.
	There are spheres within spheres of energy that we don't see with our eyes.
	When ancient shamans go out of body, they do see it.
	There is a worldwide myth, the Scandinavians called it the egg draw still, but most of
	them call it the world tree and it goes through the Maya and every culture you could ever
	imagine.
	Everybody when they go out of body sees the same thing.
	They see the plane of the planets in the solar system as flat, as though that is the plane
	of human existence.
	They see a giant axle around the sun, which they call a tree because it's like a tree
	trunk.
	At the top of the axle, it turns into a sphere, and that's where the branches of the tree are.
	That's what they call it.
	They didn't know what else to call it.
	That is them going out of body and seeing the energetic structure of the solar system.
	It operates under very precise mathematical laws.
	Our movement into this higher level of energy is very mathematically precise, and therefore, what we are doing is going through a scripted Regularized process of universal soul evolution has nothing to do with a maybe.
	It has nothing to do with, I wish this doesn't happen, therefore I'm going to create a reality where it doesn't.
	You can't get around this.
	It's definitely real.
	Yeah, and just so briefly, and yet, you know, much of what we're saying in terms of metaphysics is totally subjective and unprovable.
	And that's fine, you know, and some people say, well, Humanity facing the meaninglessness of existence created God.
	And other people will say, well, humanity sensing the total order and intelligence of the creation realized God.
	You know, you can go either way, and it's going to just be an individual matter.
	Skip, in Sylvania, Ohio, says, Art, from what I understand, time is a man-made concept, but they keep referring to it as a relative thing.
	Okay, I guess I'll have to answer this one, too.
	I just described for you the fact that the solar system appears to be a giant sphere with an axle in the middle, and this goes through, like, every conceivable culture.
	In fact, Chapter 15 of my book that's up there tonight is all about the legends of the World Tree, and it covers just about every culture you could ever think of.
	Now, here's the important point on that.
	It's a series of nested spheres.
	Spheres within spheres.
	And each sphere corresponds to a planet.
	OK?
	Now, I think that for these questions to be covered as completely as possible, I would really encourage people to go to our seminar tour.
	OK?
	We're going to have a multimedia presentation.
	It's only going to cost you $5 to get in.
	That's it.
	We're not trying to make money on this.
	And the dates are, Scott?
	Okay, yeah.
	Art, do you mind if we just move that information?
	No, plug away.
	Okay.
	Basically, again, we're talking about a two-day event in Chicago and Boulder, Colorado.
	The Friday night is a seminar with a video presentation.
	Saturday is a discussion group.
	Each event is just $5 per person.
	Chicago is May 18, May 19.
	Friday night is Transitions Learning Center.
	Saturday Discussion Group is Healing Earth Books, and I'll give a website address after these two where people can check it.
	a boulder colorado in june fifteen and sixteen at the boulder auto hotel
	downtown and uh... homepage for the event time of global shift is w
	w w uh... attention to thousand
	dot com lash
	www dot attention to thousand which is a at the end at i o n
	to zero zero zero dot com backslash shift at the time
	And again, dot h-t-m.
	Yeah, dot h-t-m.
	And so people can just check that out, and we'll present this kind of information sometimes in a much simpler form.
	It's the slash shift that's going to get you.
	Yeah.
	If we, Fran in Fremont, California, It says, if we wanted to be born in this lifetime, did our soul know that a great change was to be expected during it?
	Undoubtedly.
	Unequivocally.
	Oh, for sure.
	Now, you know, when, you know, my first book, From Elsewhere, was interviews with 25 people all claiming to be E.T.
	souls, walk-ins, wanderers, whatever.
	And this was my Ph.D.
	research, actually.
	And every one of those people ultimately came to realize that they're here to help this transition, to just, you know, offer love and light, or just to be available in any way they could to help the planet, to help humanity, you know, take the next step forward.
	This is something that, you know, you'll find when you get below the surface in anybody who has some kind of a metaphysical view about their life on Earth, and they're involved in some kind of service.
	Most of those people, when they really look within deeply, would say, I chose to be here now, and I chose to do this to help out.
	Yes.
	And it's a very, very common notion, actually.
	All right.
	I think all three of us are.
	Richard in New Orleans asks, Art, this is a good one, will new souls be able to be created after we undergo this transformation?
	Yeah, let me just I'll speak to that really briefly.
	You know, there are lots of souls in the universe.
	And we're talking about, you know, a multi-dimensional universe, right?
	Different solar systems with different planets at different dimensional levels and many groups.
	Yes.
	You know, again, back to the raw material, they talked about, well, okay, there are 250 billion stars in this Milky Way galaxy, right?
	They gave percentages for the number of planets inhabited at the different dimensional levels.
	The percentages are only like 5, 7, 12, 17, little things like that, right?
	But when you're talking about 17%, 12%, 5% of 250 billion stars, you're talking about 5 million planets, 12 million planets, at each particular dimensional level, just in this galaxy.
	So we're talking about tens of millions, really, tens of millions of inhabited planets, in this galaxy only.
	So, there's no need to, like, be creating souls.
	Yeah, but if a soul were to be originated on this planet after the transformation, it would be at a very base level, entering a very evolved planet, or would the soul be inculcated in a very evolved manner?
	Yeah, well, this is, again, you know, here we get right into metaphysics, totally unprovable, partly from Ra and partly related to other traditions.
	The notion that after this shift, Earth will be activated energetically 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th dimensionally.
	However, there won't be a 3D cycle.
	There won't be a human level of being here for a little while.
	Because there'll be a higher civilization, 4th dimensional, you know, like some of the E.P.
	groups that visit us.
	But they won't yet be prepared to host the 3D group.
	And that means that basically, you know, now we have 6 billion people on Earth.
	How many people of that six billion will basically be sort of polarized in love and kindness sufficiently to remain with the planet, to take a fourth dimensional body?
	I wouldn't say.
	I couldn't say.
	But my sense is that many, many won't.
	And that's not a problem.
	It just means they're going to have to go elsewhere.
	And so you're going to have actually many other groups coming to the planet to inhabit it.
	And a soul that's just beginning in its career of self-consciousness, just one step up from the animal level, which is consciousness without a selfhood, those souls won't be here.
	As well as negativity, or those who are oriented to self-service, they won't be here.
	Because planets, as they move into a higher dimensional condition, host polarized civilizations.
	And that's why many of the people who claim to be ET souls are very naive, and actually can't figure out all the negativity on Earth.
	Because they're coming from a place where that just didn't exist.
	All right.
	Likewise in the future.
	All right.
	They say all of this is inevitable, this coming.
	Yet, if one was to be OBE at the time of the coming, what then?
	Let me say that one.
	Doesn't matter.
	Yeah.
	Ra makes it very clear, and I don't think it just has to be Ra.
	I think this is true for anything.
	Whether you're in or out of your body, What actually happens is part of your soul's vibration.
	Now, here's the deal.
	When you go out of body, you're still in what Ra would call the third dimension, or the third density.
	Right.
	The thing is, you're in like a mirror-reversed image of space-time.
	Because in space-time, you can move around in space wherever you want to go.
	If you want to get in a car and drive, you can go anywhere you want.
	But you can't really move through the timeline.
	Okay?
	The timeline is pretty much fixed.
	Past is the past, the future is the future, the present is the present.
	When you go into this mirror image world, which is described very well in Phyllis Atwater's book, Future Memory, okay?
	In that world, you're stuck in space, but you can totally move throughout time.
	That sounds crazy, but that's what happens when we're dreaming, or when we're in the out-of-body state.
	We can have subjective consciousness experience of moving through Various levels, but in fact in space we're actually not
	moving and that's all third density So even if you go out of your body
	This energetic change is still going to affect you by bumping you into another plane. Gotcha
	Yeah, all right Joel in Fort Benning, Georgia If this theory is true
	Where would the justice of God be seen if any place?
	The justice of God is is you know seen again in a metaphysical perspective here, which is non-denominational
	In that, souls have total freedom to choose how they live their lives, and how much effort they put into virtue or vice.
	And yet, there are, we could say, cycles for experiential use.
	Cycles of time that planets go through, related to the movement of the solar system in the galaxy, in which planets Enter and then leave certain portions of space which allow some portion of soul evolution to occur.
	And the justices of the souls really do choose to be here and have the choice as to whether they're going to evolve and how or not.
	And again, you know, this kind of a question is hard to understand unless you have some metaphysical background.
	And again, that's only subjective, that kind of material, and there are many disagreements among it.
	Time is growing short, but here's a really good one for both of you, I think.
	From Amy in Houston, can they possibly compare the shift in our world, the one that is coming now, to what might have happened to ancient civilizations like Lemuria and Atlantis?
	Oh, that's a perfect question.
	I would say totally not.
	Totally not?
	Totally not.
	Because, in my understanding, that was still within the master cycle of, we could say, 75,000 years, of the third dimensional
	level of solar evolution.
	Those are simply previous civilizations that either, you know, were sort of destroyed by
	tectonic change, earth changes, or their own warfare.
	But now we're talking about something totally different.
	We're talking about something unprecedented, the end of a cycle of evolution and the movement
	into a new energetic condition.
	And so I think they're totally different.
	Yeah, let me take a stab at that.
	The collapse of Lemuria and the collapse of Atlantis, as given in the Edgar Cayce readings,
	occurred in these basically 25,000, 26,000 year intervals, okay?
	Ra makes the case that the opportunity for people to graduate was present at the end of these cycles.
	However, because of the severe negativity on the planet that makes people confused between whether they're serving Self or serving others.
	These previous opportunities were not able to be taken, and thus everybody continues to reincarnate for the next cycle.
	The difference with this one is that the way that the timelines are structured, the way that this energy that we're moving through is structured, is that you actually move through three cycles, three of these 25,000 year periods, and at the end of all three, then you reach this point where there is no turning back It's actually more powerful than any one cycle, because it's like you have three of them that have all banded up together, and you have that implosion, which is stronger than just any one cycle by itself.
	So this is like a point where the Earth is definitely going to be fourth dimensional.
	You can't turn the clock back.
	You can't stop it.
	And whether you're going to be able to go to this new level or not, it's very simple, actually.
	They say in the Ra books that All you have to be is just the slightest bit above 50% oriented towards service to others instead of towards manipulation and control of others for your own self.
	That's not that hard.
	It wouldn't seem to be that hard.
	Yeah, but the point is, and you know, again, time will simply bear us out, and we're not the only ones.
	You know, there are many people who have nothing to do with Ra or time of global shift.
	I'm well aware, yes.
	You know, we're really saying the same thing.
	Yes, I know.
	And the view which I really think is that this is an unprecedented event on this planet.
	And, you know, there are cycles of evolution, and we're just coming to a nodal point, and the best is ahead.
	But it hasn't happened before.
	All right.
	We are at a nodal point in the program.
	It's over.
	Do either one of you want to give out your email address quickly?
	I'm just going to give my website address.
	All right.
	And people can contact me from that.
	It's www.universal-vision.com.
	www.universal-vision.com.
	People can find my materials there and also send me email from that.
	And David, you?
	My website is Ascension2000.com, and I'll spell it.
	It's A-S-C-E-N-S-I-O-N-2-0-0-0-dot-com.
	And I'll just put the caveat out there that there's a lot of great stuff to read on there.
	It's all free.
	All right.
	All free sounds good.
	Gentlemen, thank you both for an intriguing program, to say the least.
	Yeah, thank you very much, Art.
	Thank you, Art, and good night.
	Yes, and good night to you, too.
	All right, folks, that's it for this night.
	A lot to think about.
	If you were listening closely, a very, very great deal to chew on mentally.
	Really been something.
	It's really going to be quite a week this week.
	But for tonight, that's it.
	We are out of linear time.
	I'm Art Bell from the high desert.

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