Art Bell welcomes Eugene Mallove (MIT, Harvard-trained aeronautical engineer and Infinite Energy editor) and Richard C. Hoagland (former NASA advisor), who critique NASA’s suppression of cold fusion research—$15M+ projects dismissed after MIT’s 1989 "fraud" press conference despite Ronald Parker’s excess heat findings—and its refusal to fund disruptive tech like ion engines for space travel. Mallove reveals private sector progress, including SRI International’s helium-linked excess heat experiments and Mitsubishi’s deuterium-palladium anomalies, while Hoagland warns of political risks stalling innovation. They link cold fusion’s potential to space propulsion, citing Arthur C. Clarke’s Mars "organic forms" claims (PAX TV’s What Is Really On Mars? premieres April 27th) and NASA’s alleged data manipulation, suggesting a broader pattern of ignoring revolutionary science—from Mir’s controlled deorbiting to energy crises like California’s rolling blackouts. [Automatically generated summary]
Was there anything at all anomalous about the fall of Mir or was it sort of well within what they thought it was going to be?
unidentified
Well, actually, Art, it seems like it happened a little sooner than they actually predicted.
And looking at some of the feeds, as we all were, I'm sure, with CNN and some of the other networks, it appears that those lucky people on the island nation of Fiji, some of the eyewitness accounts coming in, described fingers of material moving across the horizon at great speed, making sonic booms.
The envy of the whole world if you're fascinated by this stuff with the science of astronomy and space science.
But the end of NIR is here, and I just got off the telephone just before we went on the air with the folks at the U.S. Space Command, and they're going to have a confirmation very shortly from some of their ground telemetry stations as to the exact end of NIR for the final confirmation.
You mean so there is some possibility they could get up and say, well, we thought it was down, but there's still part of it in orbit or something?
unidentified
Well, maybe some pieces that have not struck the ocean at this point in time.
But Art, can you imagine just being down there?
I mean, I was trying myself to get a small group of people together, but logistics aside, it just wasn't going to work.
But it's an amazing sight, you know, as Dr. Skye goes around the country talking about these kind of things.
The basic premise here is as you promote, you know, all the time and your time on the air, looking to the skies.
I mean, there's just so much that people can see.
And up on our website, just for all the world to know, which of course is linked directly right off of your site, we have shot, with Keith Rowland's help, a wonderful video of a passage of Mir just about two weeks ago over Phoenix.
So if you've never got to see it, you can download this interesting video.
Well, you know, Art, they didn't want to give this baby up for a long time.
I mean, they just kind of kicked their heels up and said, well, we're just going to keep Mir going.
And, well, I don't know what that really means, but I think they're going to try, at least the best information that I've gotten from some space experts is getting close to that phone for me there, Doctor.
You know, I saw a message to me, an email message, that said that somebody at KGO, the sisters station that I'm on in San Francisco, called NASA and asked about fungus, basically got hung up on it.
It's one of the most interesting parts of this story, and the little bit of information I've been able to gather on this and trying to do some research on it is that over the last year or two, this potential for wide-scale growth on board the Mir is piping, some sort of an organic compound eating away at the titanium piping and other assorted metals.
Now, I'm a little confused about all of this because I talked to Linda Molten Howe, who said she talked to some scientists, and that the mold or the fungus on Mir was the same thing that you would find behind your refrigerator.
unidentified
Well, if that's the case, I think we should all invest art in a tremendous amount of Lysol stock because if it's that common garden variety type of a fungus, I don't know that for sure, but it does seem that there's not been a wealth of information anywhere that you go to at least explore what this stuff is.
Well, I know that the fungus, if I have it behind my fridge, is not eating my fridge.
Now, titanium is pretty tough stuff to be getting eaten, isn't it?
unidentified
Absolutely.
It's extremely lightweight, as we know, and extremely durable.
So this brings up a whole host of interesting questions as to what the heck this thing is.
And the big question, of course, is, as it went into the ocean, what becomes of this fungus?
Did it all disintegrate?
And an interesting part about this whole Mir complex, as everybody who's been watching this and, you know, waiting for the countdown anxiously or otherwise, is that as we know, this is a big right-angled structure.
So a lot of blockage in front may prevent the vehicles or the assemblies behind it from burning up completely.
So the possibility of whatever was on board Mir goes into the oceans.
But as you know, Art, it's stated that comets have seeded the Earth, potentially as one theory of how life, of course, has come to this magical planet.
But, you know, we're bringing back something from space this time.
And the other thing I read about this fungus was that it was surviving on whatever little biological give-off the astronauts and cosmonauts who were on Mir had.
You know, little skin flakings or, you know, whatever would come off a person.
That's not much to be able to actually subsist on biologically.
If some of it, Doctor, does survive and get into the ocean.
Now, the ocean, compared to the sterile inside of the mirror, or even the dirty inside of the mirror, is a pretty nutrient-rich environment.
I've seen all the horror movies, and so I wouldn't be at all surprised if something with giant teeth, probably a screeching comrade, comes ashore in Fiji and eats somebody.
unidentified
Well, it'll be like those science fiction movies, like a Godzilla-type movie of sorts, but who the heck knows Art?
I mean, that's still one of the most incredible stories.
And checking this out on the internet, I mean, there just doesn't seem to be a whole wealth of information anywhere you look.
Well, there were a number of Russian scientists worried about it.
I know that.
I read several of those stories.
unidentified
That is true.
So I guess in the big ocean, we're going to have to see, if anything, as they call the area where this craft landed, the Roaring 40s.
And for certainly a good reason, because this part of the ocean, as many people may not know, is some of the most turbulent waters on the entire Earth.
The latest information that we had about the downing of the Mir on its own is that that whole area right now has a tremendous low-pressure system moving through it right now, stirring up the muck, so to speak.
So who knows, Art?
That's interesting stuff that I'm sure we'll be pursuing with great fever over the next couple of weeks here.
By the way, if anybody in New Zealand or Australia wants to try the international line right now, you can get through at 800-893-0903, just in case you've got a report for us out there.
Would anybody in New Zealand, for example, or Australia, would they have had a chance to see anything?
unidentified
I doubt it at all, Mark, because the time as you moved the opposite direction, meaning moving west, would have increased, of course, the amount of daylight that was there.
I don't have a terminator map right in front of me right now, but probably your best sightings, as was reported before, this is an area that, as I mentioned, I myself and a lot of myself and a lot of other people were looking to go to.
This is the area that the Mir Reentry people chose for a good reason, that apparently the object was supposed to come nearly overhead.
And to me, that's still the most fascinating thing because I've listened to you for years, and I know that of reports that many of your callers call in about fireballs in the sky, those, of course, not being man-made, at least we don't think so.
This one is quite fascinating because back in 1979, it's kind of a deja vu night for me.
I did this back on radio in 1979, and we're talking to the good folks at NORAD, and then they were not giving out a lot of information about the Skylab.
But kind of interesting, almost the same area of the Earth, but they realistically probably didn't get to see too much unless you were in Fiji.
And I also understand there's fishing boats that are off the island nation of Tonga.
And I've been monitoring, I'm sure like yourself and all the folks that are listening to the program, any of the feeds that are coming in.
So we're going to get to see that pretty soon, I suppose, on CNN.
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
Well, it should be quite exciting, Art.
You know, I know you've talked about fireballs in the sky, and I've witnessed so many of these objects.
And, you know, I live, of course, in the Arizona area, Phoenix, Arizona, but in the deserts of Arizona, just like your high desert over there.
I mean, folks that have never seen the skies like that, they should certainly take an advantage, should take advantage if they ever get a chance to head west and see the wonders of the nighttime sky.
And I've witnessed, like many people, the propensity of these big fireballs moving across the sky.
I remember back in New Jersey when I was quite young, looking into the early evening sky, an object shaking across the sky, making noises like that of a mini-sonic boom.
So the folks in Fiji and in Tonga, they got to see, and hopefully we'll get to see some amazing footage of this man-made ending of Mir with, like they described it, fingers of light moving almost parallel to the horizon.
Do you think, as you mentioned earlier, there were several privately chartered jets and planes that headed to the Pacific to see this?
I wonder if they were, since they laid a little heavy on the re-entry, the progress rocket, I guess somebody had a heavy finger on it, yes, pedal to the metal.
Do you think the planes were able to get in position that went out there, or do you think they were disappointed a long, long way away?
unidentified
I think they may be disappointed.
I think from what I've watched on the ground tracking or the CNN tracking, it appears that the object came in short of that mark, at least for initial impact.
So I imagine the aircraft that they had in the area, and to the best of my knowledge, after checking this out, I thought they were going in one big jumbo jet.
And I was interested to find out that apparently it's a small series of turboprop aircraft, thus limiting the potential range.
They're going to be on some 747 or maybe a new nice modern 777 or something like that from Boeing.
But it appears that they were probably forced to be closer to land than previously thought.
But I think over the next few hours, as you get the show rolling, I think we're going to see some amazing turns in this.
And hopefully some of their video and the rest of the folks, the regular networks, will get to show us some of this.
It's quite exciting stuff.
But I think the fishing boats might have had, the tuna boats off of Tonga, in my opinion, Art, I think they may have had the best view of this, possibly even streaking overhead.
And that's something that we all live for if you love this kind of stuff.
I'm sure we're going to get an interview with an incredibly excited Mr. Tagahashi who was out there just about a mile or two from where it probably came down.
unidentified
Oh, Art, that's wonderful.
I can't wait.
I think that's exactly the most amazing stuff going on here.
But, Art, the whole point of this is, from my perspective, is that, you know, folks can go out there, as you do, as we do, and I know thousands of listeners do, maybe millions of listeners, I would hope.
You go out and you don't really need a lot of expensive equipment to see things.
There's just a wealth of objects that you can observe regularly.
And we observe the International Space Station on just about every other day here in Phoenix.
I tell the folks on one of the TV shows that have stations here in Phoenix how to see that, and they're amazed that that little dot has given us this beautiful series of the eye into the depth of the universe.
So there's so much to see out there, and we just want to stay in touch with that.
How long do you think the International Space Station might be up there?
unidentified
I think, Art, the best information that I've gotten on that is probably when it is completed, say, in the year 2004, probably about 15 years is what the estimation is for that survivability in space, which is kind of like that of the Mir.
But what I think is interesting is, I think we're learning a lesson on this.
And, you know, I think the way we could sum it up tonight, and this morning, for those listeners out there that may have just joined us, is that the little progress supply ship that attaches, of course, to the Mir, it's really the story of the little rocket that could, because we heard if the telemetry links were down, that's the only way they could return safely to the Earth without dispersing it.
But again, this is much different than what Skylab, because remember, Skylab had no rocket control.
It was just doing the thing, and gravity was doing its thing.
But I would imagine we've learned a lesson from this, and I would hope that when the International Space Station, bigger and brighter than the Mir, is due to come down, maybe they'll build in some systems onto that that are, of course, we hope, better than what we've gotten now.
But a lot of people are curious.
Why don't you just disperse it?
They keep hearing.
Why don't you just separate the object?
Well, the simple truth is, as you know, why would you want to have five or six randomly moving objects that are going to come in on their own?
Well, I was told that for those who stayed on Mir, it was like a course in terror.
That a lot did go wrong.
So this was a lot of emergencies, and they were banging on stuff.
And I guess they had a real time with it.
A lot of cosmonauts and even our astronauts complained about Mir.
But now she's gone, so we can all be, I guess, nostalgic.
unidentified
Yes, it's sad.
I mean, that's my answer.
I mean, I think it's sad that we've lost the spacecraft.
But the new era, as I call it, begins.
We have astronaut Titov, hopefully going up to the International Space Station soon, though to the objections of some of the folks at NASA.
Obviously, money Is what helps provide that entrance or admittance to the park, so to speak.
But I think it's a step in the right direction, and I think we're going to have lots of neat stuff.
So I can just encourage all the listeners to always stay in touch with the program and how to find these objects in the nighttime sky, Art, because there's a whole bunch of stuff coming up, and we've just begun.
I was wondering, I'll tell you, this is malfunction day around here.
That's what I was going to use for bumper music this time, but it wasn't there when I called for it.
Gosh, that was interesting.
And my microphone malfunctions right at the beginning of the show, and I have to pound on it like the cosmonaut on Armageddon.
Anyway, so much for that.
Welcome back, everybody.
So there's no more Mir and there's no free lunch, no tacos.
She's down, and there will be video of it, I would imagine, shortly on CNN that we'll all get to see.
At the top of the hour, we're going to have Dr. Eugene Malov and Richard C. Hoagland here with a number of things to talk about, many of which we have covered, some new stuff with regard to Mars, and Sir Arthur C. Clarke.
I'm just going to be talking about all kinds of things at the top of the hour, and I've got a few surprises for you in this half hour.
Well, all right.
I finally can talk to you about something tonight.
This is not really an advertisement.
I guess in a way it's an advertisement, but I broke Bob's arm, Bob Crane's arm, until he went and got these.
The Buzz, I've got some photographs on my website right now, is an electric scooter.
It's a better scooter than I saw Dean.
Remember the picture of Dean Kamen's scooter, the little girl on the scooter?
This one's a lot better, a lot nicer, from my point of view.
My wife and I have two of these, and we've had them for months and months and months.
And when we got them, well, we actually got one first, and it blew our minds.
It absolutely blew our minds.
This little scooter has a seat.
It has, in the back of it, a cage where you can put groceries or something like that.
It has smooth acceleration.
It's totally electric.
Totally electric.
Now, check this out, folks.
It folds up, by the way.
This little scooter on one charge, one electric charge, will go 13 miles.
13 miles of quiet personal transportation.
You can use it instead of a car.
In most instances, I think the stats in America say that Americans make very short trips.
Maybe if you're in a retirement community.
I mean, you take a look at this on the website.
What I did is I took several pictures of Ramona on the bus.
And it's got a computer in it.
It's got a key.
You turn the key, and the computer comes on.
You press the brake.
And by the way, it's got drum brakes, really nice drum brakes.
And you release it once, and then the computer comes on, tells you, okay, go.
And all you do is press the accelerator.
Now, let me tell you something about this scooter.
But let me tell you a lot of things about it.
Number one, because the center of gravity is so low, you think, oh, I couldn't ride away.
I'd fall off one of those.
No, no, not at all.
In fact, the center of gravity is so low that you don't feel, you don't even feel as though you're going to tip over.
I'm not saying somebody couldn't tip over in one because obviously anybody can do anything, right?
But this thing will go at 15 miles per hour, up to 15 miles an hour, for 13 miles on one charge.
Folds up.
It's good for everyday transportation to the store or whatever.
Drum brakes, tough aircraft aluminum frame, comes with a basket big enough for a grocery bag.
It comes, if you buy it, it's got a one-year warranty.
I'm really not trying to make this a commercial, but available soon to go with it, a solar power system to run appliances and charge your scooter.
So in other words, shortly there will be a solar system that will not exactly come with this, but be available so that the charging can all occur from the sun.
So you don't even have to use grid power for it.
But once you have seen this thing, it will blow your mind.
Go to my website at www.artbell.com.
Let me see.
Let me do it myself so I'm sure.
Go to What's New, and the first item on What's New is going to be the buzz.
This is just the coolest thing in the whole world.
The first one I can tell you I did not buy from Bob Crane, nor did he send me.
We bought it ourselves, and my wife and I were so blown away by it that we called Crane and we bugged him until he said, all right, all right, all right.
We'll sell a few.
So there'll be an advertisement here on the air later in the show for the buzz.
I think that they're $599.95.
But I mean, we're talking everyday transportation here.
Leave the car in the garage.
You don't need it.
This thing is quiet.
It's just, you don't even really hear it running.
It just propels you along.
Will it take the steepest of hills?
No, no, no.
This is meant for, it'll certainly take reasonably sized hills.
It won't take 10% grades or anything like that.
But 15 miles an hour for 13 miles on one charge, then you just plug it in, charge it up, ready to go again.
It is so much fun to just be, we get a lot of stairs in the neighborhood, you know, as we zip around on these little things.
We've got two of them, and I couldn't recommend it more highly.
It uses a little electricity, and that's it.
No gasoline to spill, no musk, no fuss.
You get the thing, it's UPS shippable, and you go, you know, it comes out of its collapsed position, and you're ready to rock.
You're ready to go.
It's got a gigantic, beautiful charger with it.
So it charges rapidly.
It's got, as I said, it's got a key, an ignition system.
And it's so amazing to just be almost floating along.
That's the closest description I can give you.
That's why it's so much fun.
It's silent, and you're just floating along.
Well, I've been wanting to tell you about this for months because I think it's so efficient.
I mean, imagine something that goes 13 miles on one charge, up to 15 miles an hour, which is plenty fast enough, believe me.
And you'll feel the wind in your face and you'll feel free and it's just really cool.
This was so much fun.
God, it was a blast.
And I just had to keep my mouth shut about it.
I kept bugging Bob and said, I kept saying, Bob, you've got to carry this.
You've got to carry it.
You know, this should be out there.
It should be everywhere.
And so if you want to see what it looks like, I took some photos, not the greatest photos the other day, and you can see it on my website right now.
What a totally cool item.
You have no idea how difficult it has been for me to keep my mouth shut about this for the last, oh, what, month and a half, two months, going on, two months, something like that.
Been really hard to keep my mouth shut.
By the way, I wanted to make a quick call and have you hear something here.
Anyway, listen, I just, I can't rave enough about this buzz, this incredible.
It's really just awesome, this buzz thing.
My wife and I have had more fun on it, and you know, that's the key word, even though obviously with this kind of range, you can use this thing every single day, right?
And that's what a lot of people are going to do.
But for me, it's just plain fun to get out there and let the wind hit you in the face and go cruising down the road.
And it inevitably, everybody stops you and they say, man, that is excellent.
Absolute.
Where did you get that?
Where do I get one?
Well, you can get one from Bob Crane, and there'll be an actual advertisement for it later.
This is my pitch, because it was my idea, and I found it.
Not as though it hasn't been out there before, because it has, although it certainly was new to us.
So we've got it, the buzz.
Take a look at it.
It is absolutely, absolutely awesome.
And the seat is comfortable.
Unlike, by the way, I would like to say some bicycle seats these days.
Has anybody noticed out there that bicycle seats have taken a downturn?
Now, what do I mean by that?
I mean that bicycle seats on modern bicycles look like they're made for the area between your cheeks.
You know?
Instead of supporting your cheeks, they're made for the area between your cheeks.
They're crack crunchers.
They're very uncomfortable.
They're just very uncomfortable.
And the scene on this thing is not that way at all.
You'll notice it recognizes the fact that a human has a butt.
They're just a lot of fun.
Maybe Dean Kamen does have a scooter.
And if he does, that'll be cool.
In the meantime, there is the buzz, and it's here right now.
And to imagine that kind of range, I hope a lot of people use them in view of the energy situation out there.
Sure, they've got to be charged, but to go that far on one charge, it's got one sealed lead-acid battery, which you can't see in the photograph.
And you just hook the wire up to it when you get home, charge it, and it's ready to go.
It's ready to go, you know, another 13 miles of fun.
So that's the buzz.
It's on my website if you want to see it at www.artbell.com.
All right, here's some nice bad news for you, like we needed more of that, right?
A 25-kilometer crack has just been discovered on Pine Island Glacier on the west coast of the Antarctic continent, suggesting that in the next 18 months, a great big piece of the Antarctic is going to break off and become a monstrous iceberg.
The crack photographed by NASA's mapping satellite, Landsat 7, was spotted by NASA Goddard Space Flight Center glaciologist Robert Finschattler on January 16th.
Only 10 months earlier, there had been no fissure there.
So another part of the Antarctic is going to is preparing to fall off.
Now, I know that you all, I would presume, have heard about the school shooting in Southern California once again.
It's, you know, you run out of words to comment.
This time, at least, as far as I'm aware, nobody killed, but the shooter was shot, and two others were wounded.
And I just don't know what to say about it anymore.
I watched the sheriff there comment on it.
He was just saying, I'm tired of the whole thing.
I'm tired of hearing about it.
I have no answers for it.
Nobody has answers for it.
Here's another headline for you.
Bomb threat closes 44 schools in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.
44 schools, they say, were closed.
And second shooting in the San Diego area.
That was at Granite Hill High School in El Cajon.
Not very far, not very many miles away from the last shooting.
And I am also out of things to say about it.
Absolutely out of things to say about it.
I am considering the fact and have been considering the fact that this is some sort of overall evil.
I really don't rule that out.
I don't rule it absolutely in either.
But even the sheriff, as I just mentioned, Adana, I think in El Cajon, was saying that this simply didn't happen when he was young.
He's probably my age or a little older, and it didn't happen when he went to school, and it didn't happen when I went to school.
It's a fairly recent phenomenon.
Are children taking guns and shooting their classmates and teachers and all of that?
And we all should be asking ourselves, what has changed in our society?
And I saw one lady interviewed who said, well, they've taken God out of the schools.
What do you expect?
Others have said that it had to do with what happened 30 or 40 years ago in our society.
You know, a change of the mores in our society, separate and apart from the God aspect.
I think most people feel it's probably all tied together.
I prayed in school.
My wife and I, we looked at this lady who was describing what she thought about the situation.
She was saying it's because God's out of the schools.
And my wife is a bit younger than I am, and she never prayed.
She said, You prayed in school?
You prayed in school?
She said, Well, I prayed in Catholic school, but not in the school, you know, in church.
Sure, I've prayed in school.
Yes, indeed.
I remember that.
Now, I don't, I've got to be honest with you.
I don't know that my praying in school as not specifically religious as I am had anything to do with the fact that I didn't pick up a gun and shoot anybody.
Of course, you haven't heard about fishing boats yet, but it's down.
All right, we've got a lot to do this hour and hours forward of this one.
There is just one thing I want to repeat for those who joined at this hour.
Of course, you know about the school shooting.
Another sad head shaker in Southern California.
Three hurt, including the shooter.
We'll get more details on that, I'm sure, as time goes on.
There's a big chunk of the Antarctic that's about to break off.
Many, many, many, many miles of ice are going to break off.
How often have we heard that lately?
There is the market that was almost down 400 points today recovered to about 100 points down.
So we only lost 100 points today.
I guess that's good news in this bear market, huh?
Coming up in a moment, Dr. Eugene Mellow and Richard C. Hoagland, and we're going to be talking about cold fusion and stuff like that with these gentlemen, scholars.
But I do want to repeat just briefly the buzz.
Oh my god, I've been waiting months and months and months to tell you about the buzz.
It is a scooter that goes on one electric charge, it goes up to 15 miles an hour for 13 miles, 13 miles.
Then you plug it in, and you can do another 13 miles.
What I did to escape having to do too much vocalization about it, my wife and I got this months ago, and I've kept my mouth shut because I wanted Bob Crane to carry them.
I've got three photographs, quick photographs that I took of Ramona on the buzz, and they're on my website right now.
This thing is so cool and so much fun.
It's almost like being a kid again, and it's for adults.
It's just a blast.
And as I said earlier, the center of gravity on this thing is so low that you don't even know you're on a scooter.
It's just, it's awesome.
Take a look.
Go to my website, www.arfell.com, and then go to what's new.
So there you have it.
We'll talk about the buzz later in an actual advertisement because I made Bob get these.
I made him get them.
It took about two months, but I just kept pestering him until he finally did it.
Anyway, that's the buzz, as it were, and we'll be right back.
You know Richard C. Hoagland, advisor to NASA at one time, science advisor to Walter Cronkite, Batty, and, of course, the Angstrom Science Award winner.
Also tonight, Dr. Eugene Maloff.
Since 1995, Dr. Maloff has been the editor-in-chief and publisher of the bimonthly Infinite Energy Magazine, Cold Fusion and New Energy Technology, based in Concord, New Hampshire, now entering its fifth year of publication.
Infinite Energy has subscribers in 42 countries with a print run of 10,000 in March of 99.
The magazine's New Hampshire-based parent company, Cold Fusion Technology Inc., operates the New Energy Research Laboratory, N-E-R-L, and the magazine publishing facility at Bow Technology Center in Bow, New Hampshire.
Dr. Maloff holds a Master of Science degree, a Bachelor of Science degree in aeronautical and astronautical engineering from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and a science doctorate in environmental health studies, air pollution control engineering from Harvard University in 1975.
Holy smokes.
Broad experience in high technology engineering at companies including Hughes Research Labs, TASC, the Analytic Science Corporation.
That's interesting.
And MIT, Lincoln Laboratory.
He has extensive hands-on experience in laboratory settings, more recently in cold fusion colometry.
I think that's right.
First of all, let's see if we have both these gentlemen on the line.
He then went out in the private sector and made millions and millions and millions, I guess, in telecommunications or the stock market or something.
And he decided to spend $20 million on a private tourist ride into space.
He was supposed to go to Mir.
And then NASA put extraordinary pressure on the Russians to basically end its life.
So what you saw, frankly, I think it was very sad.
I mean, I sat here watching, and all I could think of is that this is an incredibly historic vehicle, which, like Skylab, simply came down because of political reasons, not because of technical reasons.
They were very sad, and they had a right to be, because they did some incredible engineering and pioneering in terms of the first real habitable spacecraft that has served us for now almost 15 years.
But this slip about Mir II indicates to me that the Russians are not going to be content just to be a module on the International Space Station.
And I think you saw a preview of a more feisty, independent Russian space program.
If I may interject here, as an old astronautical engineer, the idea that two space stations now have been allowed to go into the drink, not only historic but useful, is absolutely disgraceful in cosmic terms.
If someone had told me this, when I was studying astronautical engineering at MIT from 65 through 70, that we were going to have large space structures and just willy-nilly let them fall into the drink because no one wanted to send up more fuel and keep it going, I would have thought they were out of their minds.
I mean, over the last few years particularly, both Americans and Russians who have spent their little time on Mir have come back and they've talked of terror.
I mean, everything but little aliens happing on the window when the internet has said, I mean, real terror.
Today, with our stupid anachronistic, well eventually the anachronistic propulsion systems which use Mir chemical energy to get up into orbit, it still costs us a lot to do it.
And once you get it up there, you've paid for it.
Let it stay up there.
Just add a little more fuel, send up another mission, et cetera.
Keep it from getting its orbit degrading by the atmospheric.
And here we're talking about NASA stupidly, incompetently causing any fuss whatsoever about an American entrepreneur who wants to pay the Russians $20 million to go up into orbit.
I think what we're seeing is what I keep talking about in terms of the NASA now, not the NASA of old, but the NASA we have now, which is it exists politically to maintain absolute control.
And what I find fascinating is the Russians' initial recalcitrance.
I mean, they really dug in their heels and said, no, we're not going to bring that gorgeous thing down, meaning near.
Finally, they were grudgingly forced, because of economics, to basically admit to the realities.
And they now have said very defiantly, NASA, you don't own us.
We're going to have Tito come to our laboratory on the International Station, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
And that, of course, is the foot in the door.
Because if Tito goes into orbit and pays his way, there's a lot of people, a lot of people who are not even very rich by today's standards of being rich, who can afford to fund space tourism.
And we have been saying among ourselves, those of us that kind of looked at the sky and talked about the high frontier, people like Jerry Pornell and Highline and others, we've talked about the idea that it's tourism, ordinary citizens going into space, which will democratize and ultimately industrialize near-Earth orbit and then beyond.
And that's what I think NASA is desperately afraid of.
Well, I heard that it might be possible, for example, to have as many as hundreds of people up there in such a space station that could be built from these things.
And moreover, that it could be boosted up out of orbit and you could take a tour of the moon and back.
Once you're in Earth orbit, you're halfway to anywhere.
And with the coming online of more advanced conventional propulsion, like ion and plasma and whatever, or coming online of the most extraordinary exotic physics that Gene and I are going to discuss later this evening, which is not really science fiction anymore, you know, the solar system has been waiting.
As I said earlier today, in another context, and that is the kind of surprise that I was telling you off the air that I want to talk about tonight briefly.
For the same reason, you know, the Analogy, I would say, is very similar to the Department of Energy and coal fusion.
The Department of Energy has this huge vested interest in a, we spent already $15 billion in God knows which year's dollar terms on trying to mimic the sun in large Tuckamac hot fusion reactors at Princeton and MIT and so forth.
These guys were the shock troops against this phenomenon.
All right, in the beginning it was highly questionable, no question about that.
Okay, I didn't believe it.
It took a while.
But all right, after the shaking and quaking of the early days came on, there should have been a reassessment.
But this reassessment has not occurred.
Even as the overwhelming data built up from corporations and federal research labs, you could talk later if you want about Mitsubishi heavy industries, but it all boils down to a brain deadness when you have a large authentified federal agency whose right hand doesn't know what his left hand is doing.
We have a golden means now to add energy sources that could be developed without that much difficulty, I think, to run the ion engines.
Ion engines, which are already developed for solar system-wide flight, include golden means now to add energy sources that could be developed without that much difficulty, I think, to run the ion engines.
Ion engines, which are already developed for solar system-wide flight and qualified, are lacking only one thing, a power source.
Add the power source in terms of closed fusion and other new energy reactors, and we do own the solar system.
It's a solid-state phenomenon, typically, a catalytic phenomenon.
You can look up in any chemistry book and you can look into the standard catalysis processes that are used in industry.
Ask any industrial chemist about catalysis.
You'll find out the catalysis in chemical energy, of course, is itself a very difficult thing.
But the transistor, suppose you'd had a transistor announcement, and you had a small group, not a large group with billions behind it, and you had to develop a semiconductor industry while, A, you had virtually no money.
All right, millions have been spent on Cold Fusion, without question.
Tens of millions have been spent.
But at the same time you spent the tens of millions, you had peer-reviewed journals having literally an index, as they have for such things as Mars surface artifacts and so forth, in which it is impossible even to have a technical article reviewed on the subject.
So you can't even, for example, submit a highly qualified, excellent, bullet-proof article showing helium correlation with the excess heat in cold fusion, as has happened.
All right, well, what happened in the experiments where it didn't work?
Well, as I say, it's a catalytic phenomenon.
It's like, suppose someone says, hey, hey, Art, we want you to go to your sandbox in the backyard, melt some silicon from the box, dolt it up a little bit, and make a transistor for me.
I'll tell you what, Dr. Three that said it didn't work.
We'll do that when we get back from it.
We're at the half-hour point here.
Richard Ciohoglin, Dr. Eugene Malova are my guests.
We're talking about cold fusion and lots more stuff.
I'm Mark Bell.
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This is Coast to Coast AM.
I hear the drum goggle in tonight.
She has only whispers of some part of the stage.
Coming in from the deep place The red wings reflect the sun That skies with salvation Somewhere you better take care of us I find you ain't beating around my bed.
She's been looking like a queen in the field of dreams.
And she's going all the way what she really means.
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This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
We are blessed to have with us two experts on spacecraft, space travel, energy, all the stuff that is really interesting.
Richard C. Oglin, he's no introduction to you, I know, and Dr. Eugene Maloff, who's here to talk about energy systems and, no doubt, drives and, I don't know, something about Archer C. Clark, Sir Arthur C. Clark, and lots of other stuff.
Hey, listen, I am so excited about this buzz thing.
I finally got the photographs up.
I don't have time to tell you about it all right now, but go take a look at it.
It's on my website.
Photographs, anyway.
I took some photographs of Ramona on the buzz.
I've been waiting months to tell you about this.
Months.
We'll get back to Cold Fusion and the institutions, three of them, I guess, That tested it, and well, for them anyway, it didn't work.
Well, maybe I'm jumping the gun a little when I say that it didn't work at these three institutions.
Let me rephrase it and see which one is right.
The three institutions that said it didn't work, Dr. Maloff?
Yes, well, the three institutions that are most noted in the historical record and in the public mind and certainly the media mind were MIT, my alma mater, and I was the chief science writer, by the way, at the time of the cold fusion announcement, March 23rd, 89.
That's 12 years, by the way, to the day.
A nice program.
MIT, Caltech, okay, on the west coast, the off coast, and Harwell Laboratory in England.
All three did cold fusion calorimetry experiments, that is the measurement of excess heat.
And all three reported no excess heat.
Now, here's the truth about it.
And this is no conspiracy story.
All these facts are completely documented in the peer-reviewed literature.
One person did it on the team, 16 co-authors of the paper.
The facts are very simple.
We've published this extensively, and all the details are there in the 1999 10th anniversary issue of Infinite Energy.
It's a 55-page report, which I wrote, with original source materials that shows that in 1989, after they pretty much had done a PR hatchet job on Punz and Freischman with press conferences of their own and so forth, that is MIT people, Fusion did, they had positive data on graphs showing excess heat on July 10th, 1989.
Absolutely no doubt about it.
The data was shifted.
On the 13th, it was made to look like there was no excess heat.
Now, by the way, we do not need these MIT results, of course, to substantiate coal fusion.
It's the issue of ethics and what happened to cold fusion as a result.
MIT has, of course, a very, very high profile.
I'm proud of MIT generally.
But in this instance, this is an absolute disgrace.
I brought to the attention of the president of MIT after I resigned in 1991, after seeing too much of this baloney going on and too much defense of this outrageous fudging of data.
I wanted an investigation, and it was not properly done.
Virtually nothing was done.
And it was swept under the rug.
This man now, Charles Vest, ironically, is under consideration as the science advisor, would you believe, to the current administration?
Why in God's name would any scientist who's also a human being and a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the world fudge data that would, if it weren't fudged, obviously lead to a serious development of cold fusion and a new energy source for the whole world?
Hot fusion, which is to mimic the sun in large vessels called tuckamacs at hundreds of millions of degrees.
Huge salaries are paid to people who work on this program.
Now, when they saw this and they saw any PR in the newspaper that was leading in the direction of, hey, this group here at Los Alamos has reproduced it, this group at Texas A ⁇ M has reproduced it, this group in Russia, this group in China, this group in Japan, they didn't believe it for a minute,
but they were fearful that the powers that be, namely Congress, would take some money from them, and Congress was about to take $25 million right out of their hide, not much for hot fusion, nonetheless, something, kill off a lot of researchers that way, and put it into cold fusion.
What they did is they held a press conference on May 1st, 1989.
They called Pons and Fleischmann frauds and incompetence.
And then they pretty much had done the job right then and there on May 1st, 1989, just weeks after the announcement.
Then they finished their so-called calorimetry experiment, phase two calorimetry as they called it.
And one lowly researcher, one man, okay, on the team, was not about in the summer of 1989 to bring to his boss Ronald Parker, the head of the Plasma Fusion Center at MIT, bring results that were positive and positive looking.
Well, then I'll say there's got to be a conspiracy.
I mean, obviously, if you fudge results so that this country doesn't proceed with cold fusion when it should have been, if that's not a conspiracy, what the hell is it?
Okay, Caltech is Caltech is, to show you how it's not a, at least, see, Richard and I share similar views, okay?
But on some views, some situations, we might have slightly different takes.
Caltech, for example, was certainly not a conspiracy.
It was stupidity.
Here's what they had.
They published in Nature magazine an article that said, no excess heat, okay?
Fine.
No shifting of data, no ethical issues as far as that's concerned.
Several PhD chemists, electrochemists, looked at it and said, now wait a minute, this is very interesting data, but the conclusions you are drawing from this, Dr. Lewis in chemistry at Caltech, are not correct.
You really do have excess heat here if you'd only use the right algebra on it.
He fumbled the algebra, believe it or not.
He basically did not properly analyze his data.
Now, subsequently, since Nature Magazine refused adamantly even to have letters of correspondence critiquing the Caltech work, these critiques are published in other peer-reviewed journals.
We can get them for you.
But they are definitely public, and it was done by a U.S. Navy scientist by the name of Dr. Melvin Miles of China Lake.
So there's Caltech, completely killed off.
Then as far as Harwell goes, that's also killed off.
They published their data.
This is the Harwell Research Facility in England, another big name at the time.
Subsequently, Dr. Michael Mulich, also of the Navy, U.S. Navy, analyzed their data and found that they have excess heat.
Now again, it wasn't as though all these people, Harwell, MIT, Caltech, got into a smoke-filled room with oil barons or anyone and said, hey, let's kill off coal fusion because if we don't, it's going to plunge oil stocks.
No, no, no, no.
It was simply like-minded people who were arrogant about their scientific position and who did not even want to open their big blue eyes.
My surprise tonight, by the way, involves one of our mutual friends.
But on this one, I clearly think that Gene is looking at the world through, if not rose-colored glasses, at least they're slightly milky.
Because it doesn't take people in a smoke-filled room now.
All it takes is a phone call or an email and someone saying, you know, if you don't kind of put the kibosh on this, the funding that you want for your department next year may not go up as much.
In other words, there are a million ways to leave your lovers.
And there are a million ways for brilliant guys to make dumb, stupid mistakes in algebra.
I mean, right now, in a totally different area, we're having this running argument on the internet regarding the so-called glass tunnels of Mars, where experts at JPL are claiming that if you stand on your head, there's sand dunes lying flat.
Whereas if you look at them with the shape-from-shading algorithms, they're clearly 3D convex objects.
The point is that when authority figures, even in journals, put out the spin on an experiment and claim there is no result, the odds are that 99.99% of the readers are not going to go through the math.
Let's talk about look, right here in my kitchen in Bo, New Hampshire, where I am, I have in my hand the proceedings of the 8th International Conference on Cold Fusion, which was held in Lerici, Italy, last May of 2000.
All right?
This is printed right on the cover by the Italian Physical Society.
Now, just because it's the Italian Physical Society doesn't mean it's right or wrong.
Now, in here, the very first article is by Dr. Michael McCubry of SRI International.
Remember, he was funded, and he and others, he was the primary funded coal fusion group by the Electric Power Research Institute.
That's the arm of all the electric utilities, which are now frying.
They funded him, and in 1994, they made a final report, a final report of the original experiments that said, look, we have proved Ponzen Feisling, period, end of story.
Now we have further results, even better, that show through better processes that have been developed, thanks to Dr. Les Case in New Hampshire, who has a catalytic cold fusion process that does it in high-temperature gas, and it's much simpler than the original electrochemical method.
Right here on page seven is a beautiful curve.
It shows over numerous experiments the absolute correlation of the production of helium, the transmutation of heavy hydrogen from the water, to helium, a straight line showing that very high correlations between the production of helium and the excess heat that they've got in those experiments.
Now, let's talk about what that means, that one graph, and then I want to switch to another one, which is even more remarkable.
What this means is that in every gallon of water, whether it's from the brook, the lake, your snowbank, or your ocean, in every gallon of water, there's the equivalent of 300 gallons of gasoline.
Period.
That's the God's honest truth.
And you can get it with no deadly radiation, as you would have if you ever succeeded in hot fusion.
It's not as though all the cold fusion researchers have been killed off.
Far from it.
In fact, it's impossible to kill cold fusion.
We have now proved conclusively the effect in increasingly robust ways.
Now, if it had been a highly reproducible phenomenon initially, like high-temperature superconductivity was, this war would have been over in the first week, or two weeks, or three months, you know, a month or two, clearly.
High school students would have been doing it without question and having it succeed every single time.
But since it was more like the transistor in 1947, that did not happen.
And so what happened was, while the establishment was attacking and while the evolved conspiracy was happening, yes, it wasn't a conspiracy, an evolved public conspiracy, you might say, while that was happening, coal fusion kept going and now has proof it doesn't have devices.
And in fact, we've just had a Supreme Court decision stating, to the total disgrace of the legal process, that they won't even hear a case stemming out of the U.S. Patent Office's rejection of the patent of Dr. Mitchell Swartz of Massachusetts, an MIT graduate, who filed a patent in 1989 on the loading of heavy hydrogen into palladium.
And would you believe, even though the particular patent that he applied for has nothing to do with excess heat, it was formally stated this is just a method of helping to assess the loading of palladium by heavy hydrogen, okay, they still rejected it because it had something to do with cold fusion.
Let me finish at one company that did receive an offer from Motorola, this is public record, of about $15 million for a buyout.
That was cheap, of course.
They refused.
But that company did not reduce its patented technology, which clearly produced excess heat and sustained heat after death reactions to the 20-watt level with zero input power.
They didn't make demonstration cells.
The personal computer revolution in 1975 was ignited by a demonstration device computer called Altair.
And once that was out, instead of selling 800 of these, okay, as the fellow in New Mexico originally thought he would do to save his electronics company, he sold 250 at bay.
Bill Gates flew in.
All the smart boys and girls came flying in and took off when they saw it in their hands.
The problem with cold fusion is this.
There has been no commercially available demonstration cell for two reasons.
One, it's been tough to do it.
Two, when a demonstration cell approached significance, the companies typically that had them decided to just sit on it and get rich other ways.
In other words, when Motorola comes to your door and says, here's $15 million, you want to buy you out 100%, and you're smart, you think you're smart, and you say, well, gee, you know, I think I'm worth billions instead of just $15 million.
Instead of negotiating a deal in that particular instance, it should have been done.
These are good people, but they didn't do the right thing, in my opinion.
Instead of negotiating a deal and having some, of course, equity position, and then having the benefit of having a high-profile, high-tech, very good corporation that was eager to develop it with them, they failed in that instance.
Now, what's happening today with them, by the way, is good news.
They are developing, they're not the only ones by any stretch of the imagination.
There are dozens of little companies now in Cold Fusion that are trying to avoid the mistakes of the past.
They know the mistakes that have been made.
And it's going to happen.
And by the way, cold fusion is not, we'll talk about this later.
Cold Fusion is by no means the only free energy source.
Not you, Art, but people don't always look at these things in the way they should.
Now, we all know that the Wright brothers flew in 1903.
And many of us, such as you and Richard and others, know that they were, even though they were flying in broad daylight, they were not accepted for five years.
They were thought of as kooks and cranks.
Even though they were in broad daylight flying over Huffman Prairie in Ohio, they were considered frauds and whatever.
They didn't have it.
The War Department wrote to them and said, prove it on paper that you have it, not we go out and see it.
Now, bear in mind, the Wright brothers had the device which you want us to have in Pearl Fusion right now, something that was really working and doing the thing.
And still they were not believed.
But before that, before the Wright brothers flew in 1903, 30, 40, 50 years of flapping around with all kinds of crazy devices all over the place, some of which almost flew and others never could have flown.
A little pile of silicon powder that was created on the surface of an ultra-clean piece of deuterium, of palladium, excuse me, ultra-clean piece of palladium In their multi-million dollar laboratory with heavy hydrogen diffusing through it, and guess what?
One, silicon, visible, the size of the three or four times the size of a pencil lead at the end of a sharpened pencil.
There's a picture here on page 146.
It has anomalous isotope ratios.
Ergo, one of the largest industrial corporations in the world, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, has one of their laboratories verifying one of the many cold fusion reactions, which should really be called modern alchemy now.
That's what it is.
And literally produced visible silicon and is certain enough of the results to publish in the public domain a picture of the silicon with anomalous isotope ratios that they produce.
We don't have processes that anyone has put into a demonstration kit and sold yet.
We have absolutely repeatable experiments.
They may go, let's say, 80% sometimes or 100% repeatability in some cases, rarely.
But it just so happens those are being done by people who are mostly interested in the academic research.
They are funded.
In one case, there's military money funding them.
In one particular case, I won't mention the group, they are funded by a branch of the military.
The reason why I'm not going to repeat who it is is because as soon as it is known which research laboratory is being funded by the military to a smallish extent, probably less than a million a year, as soon as that's known by the enemies, they're going to clamp down and they're going to find a way to kill it.
And that's what I have been saying on this show for many years.
You know, I have a model.
I call it the hyperdimensional model.
Others have other approaches to this.
But the bottom line is that we're basically claiming that physics as it is now known in practice is a small subset of a much larger universe of physics that is basically unknown to most academic professionals.
So from that point art, when you're not merely trying to apply a previously known science and make it engineering, but you're trying to pioneer the science and the engineering simultaneously to go where no one has gone before and where every time you try to go, someone says you're crazy.
It is a very Different economic milieu.
People bet money to make money.
They don't bet money to gain new knowledge with no foreseeable reward or benefit.
So I think it's a little unfair to say, why can't we buy it at Kmart?
It must not work.
What we really should be asking is why every time you get a viable process that shows scientifically that it's really there, it really works, it's real physics, why doesn't it go the next step?
Well, if you were to read the literature that Gene reads and I read from all over the world, we're talking, what, maybe 1,000, 2,000 scientists in every different social stratum and academic environment.
And, you know, a very viable device was demonstrated on Good Morning America.
I come back to this terrible word, the C word, because I think because it is so fragile, you know, you're pioneering a physics that's into the unknown simultaneously with an engineering trying to capture the physics and put it in a bottle and make it work every time.
That is such a fragile economic situation.
It only takes someone saying, boo, to make investors run at work.
It's just that I've had years and years and years of people preaching this free energy thing to me, and for years and years and years, I've only said one thing, fine.
If you don't have a big model, show me a little free energy toy.
And I can assure you, there are a lot of them who don't have anything.
They come into our, they call us up, and they say, oh, I've got this, this, and this, and this.
And they come to the lab, and we test it out at New Energy Research Lab here in New Hampshire, and we find, I'm sorry, gentlemen, you don't have what you say you have.
You've just made a mistake.
And they get very upset or whatever.
I know.
There are a lot of crazy people like that, sometimes very well-meaning, but wrong.
But mixed in with that, there are gems.
There are working things that are beginning to, we are seeing the glimmerings of the strong possibility of working.
Well, this is actually not a diversion from the conversation we've been having for the last few minutes.
In that meeting that Arthur had with Buzz Aldrin a couple few weeks ago in Sri Lanka, where they had the conversation, and Arthur said basically the following, he said, I'm fairly convinced that we have discovered life on Mars.
And then he said, there are some incredible photographs from the Jeff Propulsion Laboratory, which to me are pretty convincing of evidence of large forms of life on Mars.
Have a look at them.
I don't see any other interpretation.
Well, what people don't know, because we haven't kind of gotten around to telling them, is that Aldrin did not comment, but he responded by referring to another remarkable topic, the subject of so-called zero-point or free energy, theorized by some physicists to be a powerful new energy source that exists in the vacuum of space.
Aldrin said in that same conversation, as reported by Andrew Chaikin at Space.com, quote, to put this into perspective where Arthur and I might agree, it may take 200, 300, or 400 years, but it's going to take zero-point energy, i.e.
Now, Gene can tell you that it's been a kind of a quiet but unsung partnership between Infinite Energy and Gene Maloff and this effort to get free energy or hyperdimensional energy, whatever term you want to put it to, accepted that Arthur Clark has been a stalwart supporter, in fact, even a financial supporter of some key critical experiments.
And he has put his reputation on the line there much more visibly until most recently in terms of Mars than in terms of the subjects that I'm kind of interested in.
And it's that background of Arthur as a visionary, as someone who has attested to that this is real.
Cold fusion is a real scientific fact, not a fiction, that we're having this conversation tonight.
Because if Arthur is now suddenly saying there's life on Mars, he's been saying for several years there's energy in space that is untapped that defies the current laws of physics and it's only a matter of time until we figure out how.
And it's a kissing cousin to the kind of real space drives that will make the kind of space tourism we were talking about at the top of the show absolutely deroguer.
Arthur, I call him Arthur because we have a lot of correspondence on email and phone calls.
He has supported our efforts at Infinite Energy magazine.
He even gave some of the first money that was required to really get it going in a big way in 1997.
We thank him for that.
But mainly, his significant trust, as Richard says, is to be a voice, a stalwart voice against the opposition.
He does not deal, as we have to, sometime in the trenches, with polemics.
He merely, with the grandeur of his persona, much deserved, is allowed to, on occasion, write in Science Magazine or write an essay in Nature or something like that.
And he writes affirmatively for cold fusion and free energy.
He does not blink.
They do not edit him out.
The words are there.
They never, of course, comment on those things.
In other words, even though he says those things, they don't turn around with their editorial policy and change it.
But lots of people see it.
And Arthur, let's face it, is in contact with many people.
He knows what's going on.
In fact, Buzz Aldrin knows what's going on.
Buzz Aldrin went to the Fifth International Conference on Coal Fusion in Monte Carlo.
So these people know what's going on.
They know that things are happening, that they will happen, and that the kind of space propulsion that we have today is useful for up to a point, but it's going to get us nowhere as far as the solar system and certainly not the stars.
I personally believe that in the coming year, approximately, enough new experimental evidence of other forms of free energy will emerge that there will, at that point, not much longer than a year from now, possibly a lot sooner, there will be devices on the market that will be A demonstrations of the principles.
Definitely show there is free energy in space.
And then it will be a rather remarkable race after that point to develop the new energy sources.
And there will probably also be cold fusion devices, by the way, on the market in terms of demonstration clips.
But these will not be, in my opinion, as powerfully compelling in a way as some of the more radical things that I foresee happening.
Gentlemen, some of what's on the horizon in Free Energy Zero Point, whatever you want to call it, does any of this, in your opinions, collectively, stem from the work of Tesla?
Tesla and many other people, the literature is very rich with inventors.
Tesla was a brilliant mind.
And he made speculations about thermodynamics, incompleteness of thermodynamics, for example, that ran completely counter to what the self-satisfied, smug people today who say the second law is a barrier, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Textbook chapter A, B, and C says it can't be done.
Tesla was far ahead of them.
In 1900, he wrote an essay for Century Magazine in which he showed his contempt for the so-called fixed science of thermodynamics.
He also had contempt for the so-called fixed science of electromagnetism.
Let's instead have you name, if you would, what you think will be the first emerging device that will practically demonstrate any sort of what we laughingly, I guess, call, or not so laughingly, free energy.
I can't spell out the details right at this minute, and you'll forgive me if you don't mind.
You'll see.
It's coming real soon.
And clearly not interested in just selling magazines.
That's not my intent here.
But I am going to inform your audience that in the next issue of our magazine, which will be coming out in May, there will be some very concrete experiments revealed, okay, that are indicative, very indicative, very simple to do experiments, by the way, are very indicative of...
I don't want to mince words this way.
We'll essentially prove that there is an energetic ether.
Well, I hope both of you gentlemen understand that over the years, I have had some pretty high-profile people come on my program and announce, we've got it.
Let me be clear, because we do not want to create any misimpression at all here.
I am not saying at all that a free energy device will be announced in our magazine next month, in May.
I'm not saying that.
In other words, it's not going to run your house or anything.
It's not going to spin wheels or anything.
But it will be so irrefutable by the processes demonstrated in the concrete experiment.
It will be so irrefutable that there will be no choice but to get on the wagon and say, look, clearly there is a profound energy source in space.
There won't be any choice.
For those who do the experiments, now obviously I am not predicting the scientific establishment caving in under any circumstances, but I am telling you, my good friends, that when you properly do some rather simple experiments, when you do them, you see the genie.
He's there.
He's been here for a hell of a long time, and he is ready to come out.
Art, do you remember on your show, however many times I have said that about 100 years ago, in the heyday of Maxwell and those other giants of classical physics of the 19th century, we somehow took a wrong turn?
What these experiments are going to do is demonstrate that that statement is absolutely right, that if the ether experiments had been pursued, if the implications of the early work and all its glory and grandeur for opening up literally multiple dimensions of energy and possibility had been pursued, we would be living on a very different world.
Greed is good, because I'll tell you how greed is going to work.
Government has no greed.
Government has power.
And that's what's wrong, by the way.
They have so much power and money that they can afford to do stupid things like ignore coal fusion.
But when capitalists and entrepreneurs see enough, they haven't seen enough yet, apparently, and I don't blame them, okay, of coal fusion and free energy.
When they see enough, when they have the Altair demonstration of the personal computer equivalent in 1975, a raging free energy revolution will take off.
Because money and entrepreneurship will do the deed.
Government research programs, Manhattan-style and so forth, are going nowhere.
It's going nowhere in NASA.
It's going nowhere in the Tuckamac Hot Fusion program.
It's going to go a lot of places when entrepreneurs and capitalists and venture capitalists put their money in devices that they can feel and touch.
The same thing could have been said of the Wright brothers.
And in fact, it was.
After the astronomer Newman I mean, they flew it.
After Newcomb, I'm sorry, Simon Newcomb, when he finally admitted that they were flying, even though he had said it would take a million years for them to ever learn how to fly, if ever.
Once he agreed that they had flown, five years after they had done it, he finally said, oh, well, they'll never have a passenger.
It was a known physics beginning to be explored 100 years ago, and then we took a right-hand turn.
We wound up down the end of this box canyon with enormous amounts of oil, spent enormous numbers of generators, pursuing enormous numbers of consumers with failing power and grid systems and rolling blackouts.
I guess my point is, if we can't even get a mention of alternative methods that exist right now when we're having people in the dark, then how do we get to the exotic stuff?
I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
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Our politicians are supposed to provide leadership.
To me, that means the future.
Look ahead.
Be visionary.
Do something, damn it.
Don't just talk about coal and oil.
I know that's the short-term solution.
But we need something now to begin building toward the future.
And if they won't even talk about what we already have developed, and you can go down to Kmart and buy, then how are we going to get to something even more exotic?
Alternative power is still priced out of the range of most consumers.
What most consumers want to be able to do, because they can only afford to do that, is basically go to the wall, flip a switch, and have the lights come on.
Richard, we're about to come out with an affordable one.
I'm serious about that.
Something, 100-watt panel, an inverter, three lead-acid batteries, sealed lead-acid batteries, and it's going to be enough to power up appliances in the house.
We're going to do that because nobody else is doing it.
If you try to even live a normal life with a 5,000 watt generator, you'll find If you have some lights on and then you put on the TV and, God forbid, you put on the electric dryer, you're finished.
When programs are begin to lay out the real options for people and the stunning breakthroughs and knock down the myth that it's impossible because the laws of physics won't permit it, then you will begin to see entrepreneurship to fill these gaps in the public policy discussion.
There is no leadership at the political level.
It's so obvious.
Well, that puts us back in the area that gene enforcement I discussed a lot, which is the private sector.
Why does the private sector not move vigorously ahead in these alternative areas?
Richard and Art, I'm sorry, I have to disagree on this point.
The private sector right at the moment is almost the sole supporter of, as an example, Clofusion, and certainly all the other weird energies.
Unless someone is claiming that the Black Project community has it locked up and saved, which I mean, we've had a lot of R ⁇ D over the years of something we don't know about.
We have had, we in the coalfusion field are, I would have to say, experts on what can happen over a 12-year period of time when numerous scientists, some of whom work in the government, and are working on positive co-fusion devices and so forth, and positive proof of this.
What can happen when they attempt to just get heard, shall we say, by the head of the Department of Energy, by the president's advisors, and so forth.
Now, we are now in the fourth administration during which cofusion has been an issue.
Mr. President, will you please, all you have to do, Mr. President, is to announce that you're interested in the topic and that you will investigate it.
Now, Art and Richard, please.
Is that too much to ask for the President of the United States after 12 years?
But Clinton and Gore, Mr. Earth in the Balance Gore, let's put it this way.
He was the one who was supposed to know everything about everything.
Well, he didn't.
In fact, when the Coal Fusion people approached him, courtesy of Vice President of Apple Computer Corporation, who was briefed on the topic, and then went to his buddy Gore and said, hey, Vice President, would you please take a briefing from the Coal Fusion people?
Guess what Al Gore said?
He said, no, it's too complex.
It's too controversial.
Give it to the science advisor, ID 13.
So neither political party, frankly, has won anything.
McCain was the first person, I agree, was the very first person who, upon being asked for whether or not they would accept a briefing on co-fusion, and right here in Bowl, New Hampshire, when I asked McCain at one of his meetings, town meetings that he had, and many people heard it, it's on tape, he said, yes, I will.
Okay?
And he sent his top advisor one week later to my office, his rush kind of thing, but he did get the information.
There was subsequent discussion with another advisor, and then it sort of ended.
John McCain holds a very pivotal position in Washington.
In fact, in some ways, it's probably more interesting than if he were president.
He is chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee, which oversees not only energy, but also NASA.
When we were able to get John McCain to say a few words about what would happen to NASA if they could be proved to have withheld data from the American people last year, suddenly Dr. Malin coughs up 60,000 frames of images that have been sitting in a drawer somewhere for two years.
I recommend, Gene, that you go back to Senator McCain, who is a senator, who is now on the hot seat with campaign finance reform and McCain fine gold, and you get his people to seriously tackle this issue as a long-term campaign to build his case for why he should be president in the next election cycle, which you know that's where his eye is focused.
McCain is a straight shooter.
He has been a man of his word, and we got remarkable results out of a system that was politically insulated totally.
Look, we have 60,000 images, and they are spunning.
One of them, the one Clark, that you referred to earlier, that I looked at, when Arthur C. Clark emailed me the coordinates of that frame, I think you know what we're talking about.
They look like, it's on a 2.5, 2.8 kilometer strip, 20 kilometers long, but up at the top of the strip, okay, you see, you should link this on your website, Art.
All I can say is, just like with the face on Mars and many other things that Richard has talked about and others have talked about, absolutely without question, in the final year, or whatever it is, Richard knows, of remaining orientation fuel on this spacecraft that's orbiting Mars, we must get images of many strange objects, including rats, on the surface.
Now, Arthur C. Clarke made a comment which Richard has nicely superimposed on one of the glass tunnels.
Well, I promise you I will, on the air, I promise you I will do this.
I will write him a note tomorrow, in which I would say that I recommend that you do go on the Art Show and expound on all of your views about anything you wish.
My suggestion, of course, goes without saying that he should be the sole guest at that point.
He doesn't need any music from anyone else other than yourself, Arch.
When we come back after the break at the bottom of the hour, I want to get to the surprise.
Because the surprise is directly connected to what Arthur has said in the last few weeks, to what Gene has now said in the last few minutes regarding these extraordinary photographs and what Clark says is probably there.
And today, not only did Mir come down, but something else went up.
And there is a very important announcement I have to make and a surprise guest art that I'm going to bring on, who's an old friend of Gene and mine, who you didn't know we had in Namston.
And then when we come back at the bottom of the hour, I will put him on, and we will have an interesting few minutes conversation about where the breakthroughs are now.
Well, a couple of weeks ago, or the last time I was on, I talked about there was a surprise building.
It turns out that I'm going to be able to announce tonight what it is and when it's going to take place and who's involved and what it's going to mean for this entire conversation.
And so we will do that.
But the thing that strikes me about Arthur is that Arthur is not a dumb guy.
Why does it take so long, if it's real, to go to something we can pick up at Kmart?
Well, I haven't had as much experience in the free energy or hyperdimensional field or cold fusion at the hands-on level as Gene has, but I can tell you, I have spent something like 20 years, a generation,
trying to get people to see the reality of something which is, frankly, a lot less far out than energy from nowhere, energy from space, from zero point or whatever, and that is the concept of an ancient civilization on a nearby world.
And the uphill climb we have had to get people to really begin to look at the data.
I mean, when someone with the prestige and awesome abilities and demonstrated track record as a visionary, as Sir Arthur Clark says there's life on Mars and immediately is attacked by NASA and its lackeys, as some doddering old fool, you know that you are climbing a very steep mountain.
Well, today we reached a new height on that climb.
About a year ago, I was approached by an independent production company, which had a contract with a major network, and they wanted to know if I would be interested in doing a full-hour program on, in essence, the monuments of Mars.
And I said, sure.
And like so many other of these things that have come and gone, I thought that, well, nothing will come of this.
I have spent the entire day today with a television crew here at Enterprise, out of Albuquerque.
The day began very early this morning, Art, and I have not had a nap.
I am still going strong.
They have been all over the country filming people like Tom Van Flandern, Kincia, Greg Molinar, and many other valued colleagues and members and associates and acquaintances of Enterprise and the pursuit of the reality of the monuments of Mars.
And I was authorized this afternoon to announce this evening on your show that this program is going to run on PAX TV on April 27th.
They would have put it on my birthday, but the show doesn't run on my birthday, so they had to do it Friday night.
It will then run again on Sunday night on the 29th.
So within two days on network television, on satellite and cable all over the world, the Monuments of Mars and all of the new stuff, including the film, the video of Arthur Clark discussing with Buzz Augury his remarkable statement about life on Mars.
And they've also tracked down the BBC footage from Arthur's documentary a few days ago where he not only was talking about the, you know, life on Mars, but calling up graphics from the Enterprise mission website.
It is there, and believe me, you know, we will tell people well in advance.
We've got several weeks here.
But what they did today, what they've been doing around the country in filming, you know, they went to San Francisco and spent a whole day with Kinsey in the studio filming her exquisite modeling.
The analog modeling of the face on Mars that does the shapes and shadings and all that stuff.
Now, one of the things that we're doing on this show, and it's possible because of a couple of people that I mentioned on the last show, you know, nobody does this alone.
And Enterprise, if it's anything, has tried to become a meeting ground for like-minds and people who love to climb mountains with little hope of maybe reaching the top in their lifetime.
Two people, Ephraim Palermo and a gal named Jill England, have done extraordinary yeoman service on something brand new in the mix of this question, is there life on Mars?
They have been pursuing the question of the current liquid water.
And in this show, for the first time anywhere, we're going to lay out for a global audience a stunning model for why these stains are dripping down these hillsides, why they are patterned in two separate hemispherical aggregations on opposite sides of Mars.
And I'll give everybody a big hint and how this is indirectly connected with Tom Van Flandern's model for the history of Mars.
This is going to be one program you're going to want to tape.
You're going to want to show it to your friends, your neighbors.
You're going to want to call them up and tell them, for God's sake, get to the TV and look at this.
Because finally, we will have a major network hearing.
And a whole group of people, not just the Art Bell audience, but a whole new group of mainstream viewers are going to get a chance to see what NASA has resisted them seeing for over 20 years.
And Ron has written a very important paper on the internet, posted on Enterprise, absolutely refuting the NASA claim that these glass tunnels are just sand dunes.
So what I'd like to do is to bring him on and let him say a few words, a greeting, by all means.
And explain why he thinks this program could be a landmark.
Well, we had a fascinating day today looking at some study images, discussing some of those images for this upcoming program, essentially talking about old sand dunes and not sand dunes.
Golly, that one seems to be a pretty popular idea.
Oh, no, it's still in the interview process, and they say it's going to now take about four weeks to do the editing and put all these various pieces together in some coherent form.
I mean, making a network television show is not trivial.
One of the things that we're going to be able to do now that we've got this in the can is we have two different groups who have done what's called shape-from shading analyses.
That is, you take the two-dimensional picture and you put it through an algorithm developed by Dr. Mark Carlotto, who graciously made this available.
One group is a guy named Christopher Joseph, who's been doing some pretty neat work on this over the last few days.
Another group was led by Cynthia and Fred Torres in California, who did a completely independent analysis and put together a pretty amazing animation, which we're going to have in the show, which as you rotate around and do aerial spins overhead and come down to the surface, you can see that these things are clearly three-dimensional convex tubes.
They're not lying flat, and they've got glassine size.
They have specular reflections.
They interact with this algorithm, the shape-from-shading algorithm, in a very weird way as you turn the camera around and look up sun and down sun, which sand dunes would not do.
And Arthur Clark has not seen any of this, and I'm going to surprise him in the next day or so by sending him a direct email with these as attachments so he himself can see now with his own eyes that his bet was right.
These are three-dimensional tubular forms.
We can still have a lot of fun arguing what exactly they are.
It looks radiative, and it looks, well, it's what I would call it factalized in a way that I don't think could be explained geologically.
It is, of course, very large, Which would let us believe normally that it was geology, but the way it radiates out, and then also there's another image that I've talked about with Richard in the past: an area within several craters where there's on a white, what looks like white sand, there are very watchy things that look like they're radiating out, and they look organic too to me.
It's interesting you should bring that up because Mike Barra and I published tonight a new story on the Enterprise website, you know, the weird background story of the Mars Polar Lander.
And if you go read that with a couple of graphics, you will see how impossible it is at face value, unintended, for NEMA to have accomplished what they claim to have done given only Dr. Malin published data.
We have got someone who is now having a meeting in Washington next week on background to discuss with some of the NEMA sources the actual content behind that story, what really has gone down.
And already from one conversation, and we put this in our story on the web tonight, it appears that NEMA had potentially another source of information over and above the mail-in photographs in order for that leak to have occurred and then to have come clean with the fact that they were looking for 14 months for this missing Martian spacecraft.
There's more here politically than meets the eye.
And what is critical in all of this is timing.
I come back to this program.
We believe that by April 27th, when this program airs network-wide, and millions of people who have never heard of you or me or Gene or Ron or maybe even Arthur Clark, when they see the evidence in visual form put together by the kind of crew which is producing this program, they will be up in arms to demand from NASA what the hell is going on and why can't we get to the bottom of this?
Well, what I'm hoping will happen is that enough people will see this program, will see the entire model of extraterrestrial presence on Mars in an ancient form, having left a stunning array of artifacts, will then the next morning, with a little help from our friend here with Arbell, pick up the phone or send a fax or send an email to people like John McCain and say, what the hell is going on at NASA?
And normally they run these things a week apart, but for some reason, when they saw the script and they saw the people that we'd involved in this, they decided to put this program essentially back to back and run it twice.