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April 26, 2000 - Art Bell

03:18:02

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Art's Farewell. Michio Kaku

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01:06:52

michio kaku

01:36:00

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning, as the case may be across this great land of ours, commercially heard from the Tahitian and Hawaiian islands in the west eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, South into South America, north all the way to the Pole, and of course worldwide on the internet.
		This, for one last time, for me, is Coast to Coast AM.
		And I'm Mark Bell.
		Well, I'm not good at goodbyes.
		I'm just flat not good at goodbyes.
		So there is going to be a very minimal amount of that tonight, I can tell you right now.
		I've always hated them.
		I don't know how to say them right.
		And all that kind of stuff.
unidentified		So, not going to be a lot of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, as little as I can muster.
		In my life, there's been music that, you know, has affected me.
		I'm really, really, really attached to the music that I play.
		I don't play it just to play it.
		I play it, the bumper music I choose.
		I choose because it has meaning to me.
		And music has always been one of the best altered states in the world.
		And that's true for me.
		I can literally alter my state by listening to a certain piece of music.
		And as you know, and I think you will recognize, the song I'm about to play, it holds a lot of meaning for me.
		It really holds a lot of meaning for me.
		It just went straight to my heart and grabbed it and sort of tore it out.
		And it just holds a lot of meaning.
		And I know when you hear it, as many times as I've played it at critical moments, and I pick my moments with music, as you well know, you know it has a lot of meaning to me.
unidentified		It's been up too long with no peace of mind.
		I'm ready for the times to get better.
		I've got to tell you, I've been rocking my brain, hoping to find a way out.
		I've had enough of this continuing rain.
		Changes are coming, no doubt.
		It's been a long time with no peace of mind.
		And I'm ready for the times who will get better.
		You seem to want from me what I cannot give.
		I feel so lonesome at times.
		I have a dream that I wish I could live.
		It's burning holes in my mind.
		It's been a too long time with no peace of mind.
		I'm ready for the time to get better Na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na
		It's been a too long time with no peace of mind.
		And I'm ready for the time to get better.
		guitar solo
		guitar solo We've been up two long times with no peace of mind.
		And I'm ready for the time to get better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That song has held a lot of meaning for me for all these years.
		And I've been playing it, playing it, playing it.
		And the angel who sings it is Crystal Gale.
		Hi, Crystal.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy, it's great to have you on the air.
unidentified		It's great to be with you.
unidentified		It really is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That song really, you know, I think people do that, Crystal.
		I guess they attach their own meanings to a song like that.
		But it wasn't hard for me to attach to that one really art.
unidentified		You know, that song holds a lot of meaning for me, too.
		In so many different ways.
		You know, it was a song that was my mother's favorite of mine that I recorded.
		And every time I sing it, you know, I have these feelings.
		And as you were saying, music, it affects me a lot in just the tones that come out in words that I sing.
		And, you know, it can put me in a good place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I actually Think that I said it before, music is like it puts you in an altered state, and it must release something in your body that actually, or in your brain, endorphins maybe, or something that happens to you when you listen to music.
unidentified		It does.
		Yeah, I know that certain sounds, I can feel it when I sing a certain sound, I feel it through my body, and my ears are different than other sounds that I can sing.
		It's like, whoa, I like that.
		And it's not, you know, how I'm singing it, it's just that tone that'll come.
		It's like listening to some beautiful flute music.
		I love the Indian flute, the pan flutes.
		I love that sound.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I love the pan flute, too.
		I'm going to tell you a little story about you that you didn't know about and you wouldn't know about.
		Have you ever been on a cruise?
		Yes.
		Yeah.
		My wife and I, when we were first married, went on a cruise to the Bahamas.
		And on the cruise, they have all these silly games where you can embarrass yourself for cheap prizes, you know.
		And they had their version of the newlywed game.
		And we were up there with several other couples.
		And the question was, if you could wrap yourself in any famous person's woman's hair, beautiful woman's hair, whose hair would you wrap yourself in?
		And I, of course, my wife was in the soundproof booth and all that stuff.
		And not a moment's hesitation.
		I said, Crystal Gale.
		She came back on stage and said, Crystal Gale.
		And that was the 25-point question, and we won the game.
unidentified		Hey, I like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a true story.
		And when I was talking to you on the phone, I mentioned that I have this gigantic poster of you, which is the most angelic picture of any woman I've ever seen in my whole life.
		Just absolutely angelic.
		And it's got to be an older picture.
		It's got to be when you were probably about how old?
unidentified		Oh, gosh.
unidentified		That particular picture came out of, I think, my third album.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your third album?
unidentified		I think it was the third.
unidentified		I think it was just called Crystal Gale.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can only go by how long your hair was.
unidentified		It wasn't all the way down there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is now to the point where if you're not careful, you can trip on it, can't you?
unidentified		Well, you know, I have been cutting it back, and I get people that after the show, they'll come and say, you've cut your hair so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, tell me it's not that cut, though.
unidentified		No, it's not that cut.
unidentified		No, I can still wrap it around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, Crystal, how's the weather in Nashville?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm headed that way.
unidentified		It is beautiful.
		It's been just great.
		It's very warm.
		I mean, it's building up.
		I think it's supposed to be warmer tomorrow.
		It's going to be real nice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that sounds good.
unidentified		It'll be a nice, you know, if they stay like the days have been the last couple days, beautiful sky, the blue sky, you know, everything's getting so green.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's God's country, that's for sure.
unidentified		Yeah, we could take, you know, 365 days like this.
unidentified		I could.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, listen, Crystal, again, thanks for coming on because your music has really meant, you know, it's actually provided me comfort.
		How about that?
		Comfort.
unidentified		I like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, comfort.
		I think that's the word that I would apply to it.
		In some of the, you know, troubled times that I've had, it's just been downright comforting.
unidentified		Well, thank you.
		And you mean a lot to me, too.
		I mean, you've inspired me as well.
		And your books have given me a lot to think about as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
		And I'm sure we owe you lots of residuals.
		Listen, maybe we'll, remember when we met out here in Las Vegas and you said you'd love to come out here sometime rock hunting?
unidentified		I love rock hunting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We got the rocks.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you get the time, we've got the rocks.
unidentified		Okay, we'll go rock hunting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, Crystal, and thank you.
unidentified		You have a great night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
unidentified		You too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, folks, there she is, Crystal Gale, that gal I've talked about so much on this program.
		That was really nice.
		She wanted to come on and say something, and so there she was.
		Oh, she has a voice of an angel.
		There's no question about that.
		No question about that.
		All right.
		Well, let's see.
		I didn't do a commercial break yet, did I?
		So I guess I better do one of those.
		Here comes a commercial break.
unidentified		The End All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now comes the successor designate for this program.
		He is, you all know it by now, Mike Siegel.
		And there are maybe a few things you don't know about Mike Siegel.
		He's a lawyer.
		And he has a doctorate in communications.
		So technically, he's Dr. Siegel, actually.
		And I know that he doesn't talk about that.
		He never talks about that, but he is all that.
		Mike, welcome.
unidentified		Art, it's absolutely an honor to be here with you on your final program.
unidentified		And I, with everyone else, is feeling kind of a void and a loss because you'll be leaving us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe there's something I should tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I don't know if this is the right time or place, but I've decided to change my mind and stay.
unidentified		I'll be your first caller tomorrow night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you have really something in front of you, something wonderful in front of you.
unidentified		It's more than wonderful, and you know what you've created with the audience, and it's something very special that I haven't seen created anyplace else than talk radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The funny thing is, I really don't know.
		I just, you know, it's been one of those things.
		It just comes, and it just came.
		I still don't dissect it nor fully even understand it myself, and I was always Thinking, I probably shouldn't try.
		And that same thing will happen to you as time goes on.
		You will sort of mesh into the consciousness of what's happening.
		It's an inevitability.
unidentified		You and I have talked about that off the air.
		And let me say to your audience that I cannot ever repay the debt of the support that you've given me through this process.
		We've talked at length about this, and I thank you for that publicly.
		But I agree with you, and I've tried to say to everyone, from the people at the Premier Radio Networks to the audience, to Alan Corbett, the producer, and to everyone else, that this program really has a life of its own.
		That's what you've, in effect, created with the audience.
		And I'm not here to change anything.
		I'm just here to facilitate and allow it to grow by the audience being the driving force of the program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You will find your own way.
		And it will, I'm very, very happy, you know, the program is going to stay in its genre.
		It's like having a baby and seeing the baby grow.
		But within that genre, you're going to end up to be your own person on the air.
		You're not me, you're you.
		And so there will be different adventures and roads for you to go down, which will be a good thing for you and the audience.
		They'll get a little taste of something a little bit different.
		And that should grow the show.
		And what I want to see happen to the show is for it to grow.
		And you'll grow with it, and everything will grow.
		And that's what I want to happen.
unidentified		Well, I agree with you, Art, and I think had you stayed with it, and I know you're very content with your decision from what we've discussed privately, and I think the audience should know that, that this is a very important decision for you, but you are fully content with it, I think you would have done the same thing.
		I think you would have grown the program as you've obviously been doing.
		And we both talked about this off the air.
		There is still room for this program to grow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
		Sure.
		This is a completely different kind of talk radio, and that's why it has come to where it is right now.
		There was a void waiting, I guess.
		And, you know, when I modified the program years and years and years ago, it just slipped into that void.
		And America, I guess, has figured out that there's more to talk radio than just is the president a good guy or a bad guy.
		Pretty much that's what it boils down to, you know, on political talk radio.
		And so there's room for so much more.
		And lately, the talk shows that have been succeeding are the ones that have been going out there and looking for something else.
		So that's what you've got, is something else.
		But it's no neat little formula.
		In fact, I'm not exactly sure I know what the hell the show is night tonight.
unidentified		Maybe that's the best part of it, you know, the fact that it unfolds with you.
		And actually, that's what I thought when I filled in for you in the last several weeks and doing the programs and what I will do in an ongoing way is, number one, as you said, stay in the genre.
		But number two, let the program take its own course.
		And I once worked at a radio station for a very competent and wonderful broadcaster, a general manager who had been around this business for about 40 years.
		And the station became very successful.
		And all the way through the process, and I was there as it grew, he said, we're going to let this radio station take us where it goes, and we're not going to force it anywhere.
		And I think that's what you've done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess it is.
		And, you know, that's what you're going to do.
		In other words, there are going to be changes in the program.
		There'll be changes in the website.
		Hell, there's changes in life.
		Everything changes.
		But you'll have some new roads, some new interesting roads to go down.
		And you've got a lot of really cool stuff to explore.
		Whatever it is that you decide, and I've told you this privately, and I'll tell it to you publicly.
		When you get a job like this, everybody's a program director.
		Man, I don't care who they are, whether it's the audience or all the program directors at the affiliates or the network or whoever it is.
		Everybody's a program director and everybody thinks they know how it should be done.
		You're the only one who really knows how it should be done.
		And you need to listen to yourself and forget about everybody else.
unidentified		That's a profound yet simple word of wisdom.
		And, you know, it's very interesting because one of the major trade publications in our industry did a piece about this.
		And then they had a whole page.
		I'm sure you know about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You told me about it in R ⁇ R or something, wasn't it?
unidentified		Yeah.
		And all of the major programmers in the country, or most of them anyway, had comments about where the program should go if you retired.
		And I wouldn't read it.
		I specifically did not read it because you're right.
		You obviously created this.
		I have a lot of faith in my own talent to follow in your footsteps, and it's an enormous challenge that I have to undertake.
		But in the end, it's going to be me and the audience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
		That's it.
		Well, listen, buddy, you have a program to do tomorrow night, I think, with Robert Ghostwolf, my friend Robert Ghostwolf, right?
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's going to be an important program.
		They found some stuff here in America that he's going to expand on, I'm sure, tomorrow night that will just blow your socks off.
		You'll see some of the photos.
		It's amazing stuff, Mike, and it's right here in America.
		So that's what you're going to be doing tomorrow night.
unidentified		It's a great opening, and look, your production staff has been incredible, and I'm looking forward to tomorrow night.
		I wish you and Ramona nothing but peace and contentment and happiness in your retirement.
		You deserve every minute of that.
		And I thank you again for all of your support.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, my friend, and take good care of this program.
unidentified		I promise you.
unidentified		It is your child, and I promise you that as the foster parent, I will raise it in the way you want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, Mike.
unidentified		Take care.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And here she is one more time.
unidentified		The angel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The blue-eyed angel with that long hair.
unidentified		This is Crystal Gale.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back.
unidentified		Don't know what I've been so loose.
		Don't know what you.
		You found someone, another day over.
		Another time, another one.
		Enough to do.
		I guess you made my own.
		You take yourself, you make myself unloved.
		I, I live among the creatures of the night.
		I haven't got the will to try and fight against the new tomorrow.
		So I guess I'll just believe it.
		Tomorrow will never come.
		I'm sailing at night.
		I'm living in the forest of the dreams.
		I know the night is not as it would seem.
		I must believe in something so I'll make myself believe it.
		This night will never go.
		Wanataker.
		a ride?
		Call our bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach ART at 1-775-727-1222.
		The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		And to call ART on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coaster Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is, and there you go.
		Finding bumper music in the last three days of the show.
		I thought this one was right on the money.
		Well, as I said, I'm terrible at goodbyes, but I do have a few things that I want to say to a few people out there.
		And I'm never going to be able to catch everybody, so prepare yourself for that.
		If you're one of the thousands of people I've interacted with, I probably won't be able to get to you.
		but i've got a couple things i want to say all coming up in a moment All right.
		Well, you know, I've never done this over the years, but it's high time I did, I guess, here in the last program.
		And that is to thank the people who directly make possible this program.
		And I've named some of them in the past, but I really do want to name a few.
		Ted Alexander, who's a board op in Oregon, Medford, where all of this comes from or originates and then bounces from satellite to satellite to satellite and gets to New Jersey and then back to satellite and then back down eventually to radio stations.
		So Ted, Verland Beard, who's chief engineer.
		Steve Burgess, who's affiliate relations in the Western Division, West of the Rockies, I guess.
		Delani Conrad, in charge of operations, and that means she does a lot.
		Believe me.
		Will Hilliard, who's a board op.
		Roger Daniels, affiliate relations East Division, East of the Rockies, I guess.
		Michael Kinkade, a board op.
		Lisa Lyon, who you might like to know is the After Dark editor and special projects person.
		And that, too, covers special projects.
		Have you ever had a title like that?
		In charge of special projects.
		Man, that means anything.
		But she also edits After Dark, which, by the way, will continue.
		Sherry Miller in customer service, somebody you might talk to if you'd called the network.
		Jim Reed in distribution.
		Miley Reed in administration and sales.
		Stephanie Smith, an affiliate relations coordinator.
		That's all the network stations talk to.
		Or through, or I don't know.
		Yuda Stensgaard in sales.
		I want to thank Craig Kitchen, who is the president, CEO, chief dude of Premier Broadcasting, which is a big network of Rush, Laura, myself, Michael Reagan.
		And Liz goes on and on and on, all kinds of talk programming.
		So it's a big job he's got, and he's helped me out a lot through this last year.
		Some rather difficult times, to say the least.
		Randy Michaels, who is the chief guy at Clear Channel, which owns Premiere, and actually, I think, a good part of the world.
		And so I want to thank Randy.
		I'll never forget one afternoon when Craig and Randy were here, and we talked about what was happening, and it's an afternoon not to be forgotten.
		So they both have helped through all this.
		And of course, there are tens I can tell you, and I don't know how I'm ever going to do this, but I have received, since the announcement of my retirement, tens of thousands of emails, taxes, letters from all of you.
		And there's simply no way I could begin to acknowledge the heartfelt feelings.
		And I'm saving all these.
		I don't know what I'll do with them.
		There are tens of thousands of them.
		Memories, I guess.
		So all of you people who sent all of these communications, gazillions of communications, thank you.
		It is my intent to return to private life.
		And so in that regard, you will find a number of things happening.
		You will find the website beginning to remove material associated with me, as it should.
		As it should.
		And the archives, the programs over the years that were archived and were Not brought back after a certain point, will not come back.
		Now, we thought very hard about this, and I had a discussion with Craig Kitchen about this.
		And the fact of the matter is it's a tight call because, on the one hand, I understand that the audience would like to have those archives around.
		But on the other hand, if my intent is to return to private life, which it really is, and that means to sort of fade into obscurity, that doesn't mean I'm going to have an obscure life.
		It means I'm going to have an obscure public life.
		And believe me, I've had enough of the public life aspect of things.
		And by the way, for any of you who seek fame, be careful what you wish for, is what I would say.
		As you know, I dearly love, this is my baby, this program, what we do here is a love that I, you know, has been like a love of my life.
		And I love doing this show.
		But I don't necessarily love everything that comes with it and with fame.
		Fame is a pretty weird thing.
		And I've never been comfortable with it.
		I've never been comfortable with the famous part of it.
		You know, doing interviews and appearing in newspapers and going on Larry King and all that kind of stuff.
	I've never been comfortable with that sort of thing.
	And so that part of it, I have not enjoyed so much.
	If it was a perfect world, nobody would know me, and I'd still be able to come on here and talk to millions of people.
	And I know that's a very difficult concept.
	Like trying to figure out the nature of time.
	It's a very difficult concept.
	But if I'd had my way, I would have taken away the fame part of it, and I would have left doing the program.
	Unfortunately, they're pretty much inseparable.
	And then, of course, there is one person I've got to mention, above all, and we are inseparable, and that's my wife, Ramona.
	There is no way, there's no way in hell that I would have made it through this last hellish period in my life, in my family's life, without Ramona.
	There's no way.
	She's been there every minute, you know, in a way that counts.
	And so the love of my life, my wife, Ramona, is the one I want to thank the most because she's been here for me every day.
	And believe me, some of these have been pretty difficult days, folks.
	Pretty difficult days.
	So she's gone through a lot of it with me.
	And she's a very, very strong woman.
	By the way, we took one final webcam photograph, Ramona and myself, just a couple of minutes before the show, I think.
	And you will find that on the website tonight.
	You'll have to look down and find a studio cam.
	But we did take one final photograph, and I'll leave that one up there for you.
	Otherwise, I think I'm done.
	That's it.
	And of course, you know, there's a million people, all the guests who have been so important, and I'm not going to start to name them.
	Because if I begin to name my guests, I would inevitably leave out, kind of had hundreds of guests, you know, and so many of them so important that if I were to begin to name them, I'd leave a bunch of people out.
	And so I just want to thank all of you who have been part of this program as a guest in the same way.
	Thank you for all you've done.
	Coming up here on this show is a little bit different than going on a lot of shows.
	I can tell you that because, you know, I've had the travails of going on television and other talk shows, and they're not exactly the same.
	This is a different kind of place up here, and it's hard to come on the air for five hours, for any guest to come on the air for four or five hours, and not really open up to who they are.
	It's impossible.
	You can't do that many hours.
	Eventually, you're going to get used to being on the air.
	The nervousness goes away, and who you are is going to be finally revealed.
	And a lot of guests have done that on this program.
	And so I'm not going to start naming you.
	All of you know who you are.
	The regulars, the semi-regulars, the occasional spectacular guest, the occasional bomb.
	You all know who you are.
unidentified		And thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even some of the bombs, you know, the learning curve.
		And then, of course, Keith Rowland.
		Keith has been a friend of mine for years now.
		Keith began the website with no connection whatsoever to the radio program.
		He was just a fan.
		And he began the website with another fellow named Myron.
		And it evolved into what it is today.
		And that skips an awful lot of territory.
		But it evolved into what it is today.
		Now, not to worry, it will also, of course, remain exactly where it is, telling you about programs coming up, telling you about guests, no doubt, posting the occasional wild photograph of some kind or another up there.
		The domain name, something important for websites, will remain www.artbell.com, but that is going to fade into the background.
		I'm going to hold on to that domain personally.
		The new name of the website is the best way to get there, and the way you ought to get there, it's www.coast2coastam.com.
		Either one of them will, however, take you to that point.
		What I would suggest to you with browsers is when you get to the site, just hit add bookmark and it will automatically add the new URL to get you there.
		But Keith has been there awake with me all night long, so many times, and done so many things at the last minute.
		You have no idea, even during shows, sometimes inevitably, I mean, Keith got to the point where he would expect it, but I would call Keith up in the middle of the night, and I'd say, oh, my God, Keith, somebody has sent me this incredible photograph.
		I'm telling you, Keith, this is the one.
		We've got the smoking gun evidence.
		I've never seen as clear a photograph of an object or a saucer or a ghost or something or another.
		And so I would be sitting here on the air trying to upload this thing to my website to Keith and getting things on the air in the middle of the night.
		So Keith never had any choice.
		He stuck with the show all the night through.
		And he's done that now for years.
		So in other words, Keith has really lived the same hours that I have.
		And then I guess my best friend, my best friend, is Alan Corbeth.
		And he's vice president of Premier Radio Networks and came with the show when Premier purchased the show.
		Alan Corbeth has, he's in charge of the operations up there, you know, all the people I mentioned to you earlier.
		He runs everything.
		He's been a personal best friend.
		I mean, that's what he is.
		He's my best friend.
		And he's been that for years.
		And I probably talk to Alan too many times every day.
		I mean, whenever there's something about the show, I'm on the phone to Alan.
unidentified		Boom, like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we talk, I would say, being honest with you, at least three or four times every day.
		Sometimes I would say we talk as many as 10 to 15 times every day.
		I mean, a lot.
		And today is Alan Corbett's birthday.
		Today, Alan is 55 years old.
		He's a little older than I am.
		I'm 54, and I'll be 55 June 17th.
		But today, Alan is the big double nickel.
		I wonder how that feels.
		Well, I'll find out soon enough, I suppose.
		But Alan has always been there for me and is going to be there for Mike Siegel.
		He's the important component in the show, part of the show.
		I mean, I have done things that I know have raised the hackles on the back of Alan's neck and raised the hairs and the hackles and all whatever he's got to raise.
		I'm sure I raised it plenty of times because I've always done really weird, strange, unpredictable, no doubt from a programmer's point of view, scary things.
		I remember all those years ago when I decided I'd had it with politics.
		I mean, the show was pretty big.
		You know, we had a big show.
		It was an open line show.
		I wouldn't say just politics.
		It was, you know, anything goes kind of show.
		And it inevitably went to politics.
		And I was getting so sick of politics.
		And I said, there's got to be another way to go.
		And I said, I'm going to just, I'm going to start doing what I want to do.
		And right now, what I don't want to do is politics.
		I'm fed up with it.
		Oh, God, am I fed up with it?
		And so I just, I stopped doing it.
		Now, as you might imagine, this came as a severe shock to Alan, who went, gulp, okay.
		And, you know, that's how magic happens.
		And he was wise enough to allow the magic to happen.
		I'm sure I gave him some scary, scary days.
		Well, okay.
		You know, he said, we'll sure do it.
		And I took off and we did it.
		But Alan was there for me every minute and acted in so many ways behind the scenes for me.
		Besides being my best friend, he was there for me, as so many people were.
		And that's how all of this happened.
		And as I said, I'm not really good, folks, at goodbyes, and I know I miss saying a lot, so I'm sorry for everything I miss saying.
		Tomorrow, I would like to add, no, not tomorrow, Friday, I am going to be in Nashville, Tennessee for a hearing at 9 a.m. Central Time.
		It's the Circuit Court for Davidson County at 501 Metro Courthouse, Nashville, Tennessee.
		Metro Courthouse is downtown on the corner of 3rd and James Robertson Parkway, I guess.
		So there you have it.
		That's my immediate future.
		And we have a show to do tonight.
		Dr. Michiu Kaku is coming on.
		he'll be my final guest Good morning, this sunshine.
unidentified		You rise up my day.
		The sweet of the touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of the leaves, to wind and refresh to be covered and then to burst up.
		To tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
		To lie to the madam and hear the grass sing.
		To have all these things in our memory's home.
		And the use of the house to find.
		To have all these things in our memory's home.
		Just for me.
		Oh, I know.
		Take a big ride.
		I'll see.
		It's for me.
		Wanna take a ride?
		Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach Art at area code 775-727-1222.
		Or call the wildcard line at 775-727-1295.
		To talk with ART on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
unidentified		Well, there was Carl Sagan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		May he rest in peace, and I'm sure he is.
		He had a unique ability to explain the inexplicable to people in language they could understand.
		And then there's Dr. Michio Kaku.
		And he's still alive and kicking.
		And he is one of our nation's greatest theoretical physicists.
		And I think a fitting final guest on the program.
		He is indeed a professor of theoretical physics at City College of New York.
		He is co-founder of String Field Theory.
		String Field Theory.
		He is the author of the critically acclaimed and best-selling hyperspace, as well as Beyond Einstein, Quantum Field Theory, a modern introduction, an introduction to super strings.
		He hosts himself an hour-long weekly radio program that is syndicated nationally.
		And I guess that has forced him into doing what not many people in his position can do.
		And that is explain these things that otherwise cannot be understood by the general public, but nevertheless are real.
		in a moment dr mitche You know, one thing just occurred to me.
		Dr. Michio Kaku, of course, is in New York, New York City.
		And for the first time in, God, 30 years maybe, I went to New York City to visit my childhood.
		To visit my childhood, actually.
		I got to go to WABC.
		And of course, I'm on WABC right now.
		And that was my...
		I mean, I was there.
		That was it.
		That was the only thing he listened to.
		And so I want to thank Phil Boyce.
		Hey, Phil.
		For, you know, being the guy who called me up and said, hey, you want to be on in the Big Apple?
		You know, that bowled me over.
		And I went back to New York City after all these years, and I expected the old New York City that I remembered, one where you couldn't take five steps without getting hit over the head and have, you know, if you were wearing a watch, it was gone.
		One where people pushed and shoved you out of the way and called nasty names after you.
		And it was just sort of a foul city.
		But New York, the New York that I went back to was not the same New York City.
		In fact, it was so clean.
		It was so incredibly redone that it reminded me of Paris.
		Paris, of course, is very socialistic.
		They take a lot of taxpayer money over there, and they keep the place really clean.
		Well, New York's done that without the socialism, or at least as much as they have in France.
		It's a beautiful city now.
		It is the city where Dr. Michio Kaku, co-founder of this string theory thing, is located.
		Dr. Kaku, welcome to my final program.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Art, glad to be on.
		And let me say, by the way, that my email has been literally flooded with people that want to wish you well.
		They really say that, well, the last show is going to be quite a show.
		And they say, Godspeed, Art Bell.
		They wish you well in whatever you do after this show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Thank you very much.
		And thank everybody.
		Boy, there's been tens of thousands, and I'll never be able to thank everybody, but thank you.
		Doctor, I'm curious how this is sort of a take-you-back question, but I wonder how somebody gets to the rare atmosphere where you are, way up there in theoretical physics.
		It seems like an almost impossible place to go, and not very many people go there, and yet there you are.
		So what drove you in childhood to move toward where you are now?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, what drove me in the direction that I pursued is that when I was eight years old, my elementary school teacher walked in one day and announced that a great scientist had just died.
		Everyone was talking about this.
		It was front page throughout the world.
		And they slashed a picture of his desk with the unfinished manuscript of his greatest work.
		Well, that man who had just died was Albert Einstein.
		And on his desk was the unfinished manuscript of his greatest unfinished work, The Theory of Everything, the Unified Field theory.
		And by golly, I said to myself, I want to know what's inside that manuscript.
		And if possible, finish, help finish what Einstein set out to finish.
		Because such a great man must have embarked upon a great project.
		And then as I read more and more about this individual, I found out that he was chasing after this one-inch equation that would explain everything you see around you, the galaxies, the stars, creation, DNA, people, maybe even life and love.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it liable to be that short, one-inch?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we think it's probably that short.
		For example, if you take a look at light, the ancients were mystified by what is light, and yet light cannot be described by an equation that is just half an inch long.
		The equation is called Maxwell's equation, and it says that the four-dimensional divergence of an anti-symmetric second-rank tensor equals zero, and that's light.
		And in fact, in Berkeley, where I got my PhD, you can buy a t-shirt which says, in the beginning, God said the four-dimensional divergence of an anti-symmetric second-rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was eight, when you were eight years old?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And everyone was talking about this unfinished work.
		And I wanted to know what was it that Einstein tried to do?
		He wanted to find an equation that would unite gravity with light.
		And now we want to also include matter as well.
		So we want to include the nuclear forces, light, gravity, into a cosmic framework.
		And today we think that string theory is the best bet to give us this theory.
		The theory is defined in 10-dimensional hyperspace.
		And recently, the front page of the New York Times science section last month, front page article about string theory and the 11th dimension.
		We're up to 11 dimensions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The 11th dimension, really?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		We're up to 11 dimensions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've always talked about 10.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		We now believe, and this work comes out of Princeton, that in 11 dimensions, if you add one more, add one more dimension to string theory, then you get membranes coming out.
		This is called M-theory, M for membrane, or M for mother of all strings.
		And we think that if you add membranes, then this may give us a clue as to where our universe came from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Membranes.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Our universe may, in some sense, be a membrane, a membrane that pulsates in hyperspace, 11-dimensional hyperspace.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean by that everything?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, everything we see?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Everything we see around us, right, may be a membrane that exists in a larger ocean, larger 11-dimensional ocean, which may have other blobs, other bubbles.
		Yikes.
		And, well, this was the front page of the New York Times.
		The New York Times is finally coming around to the fact that, yes, string theory is the leading candidate for this stable unified field theory that will allow us to, quote, read the mind of God.
		That's Stephen Hawking's term for the theory, reading the mind of God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Reading the mind of God.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And if this theory is true, it means that these higher dimensions, these other dimensions that we cannot see or touch, could be quite large.
		They don't have to be small at all.
		Mystics have always assumed that these higher dimensions are very small, because otherwise we could fall into them, and atoms would disappear into these higher dimensions, and our universe would gradually evaporate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are we pretty sure that never happens, by the way?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, we can't be positively sure, but it seems that matter is conserved.
		It seems that matter doesn't disappear.
		And if there was a fourth, fifth, or sixth dimension, then rocks and apples and oranges would slowly disappear into these higher dimensions, and we don't see that happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But we don't notice what's happening to all our rocks.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		It's conceivable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, when you're thinking about the whole planet, right, and you're thinking about all the sand and rocks and dirt and everything that makes up the planet, we might not even notice a tiny shift every now and then.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That's also been speculated that maybe it does happen, but it happens at such a slow rate that we're not aware of it.
		But the latest theory is that if the universe itself is a bubble, a membrane floating in a larger space, then there could be other bubbles out there, and this could give us a measurable test of the theory, and that's what's causing all the excitement.
		That's why I made the front page.
		These bubbles could attract each other gravitationally, and we would see this attraction in our universe as something called dark matter.
		Now, dark matter, you've probably been reading about.
		It's made big headlines in all the science magazines.
		90% of the universe is made out of dark matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which is hard to get your mind around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, it's stuff that's in what we regard as empty space, right?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right, and it's invisible.
		And it makes up 90% of the known universe.
		The Humble Space Telescope has now given us maps of dark matter in outer space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, wait a minute.
		Let's see.
		When we look out, we see suns, we see planets, we see quasars, we see all these things that are made of matter that we do understand.
		Right, atoms, right, atoms and so forth and so on.
		But you're telling me that the dark matter comprises 90% of all that is, leaving only 10% for the stars and the planets and all of that?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		There is a halo, a gigantic halo that surrounds the Milky Way galaxy.
		And in fact, all the galaxies that we've measured so far, they all have this gigantic invisible halo that is perhaps 10 times the mass of the galaxy itself.
		So your chemistry teacher was wrong.
		The universe is not mainly made out of atoms.
		Only 10% of the universe that we see is apparently made out of atoms.
		And what's causing the excitement is that perhaps dark matter will give us a clue to these other universes.
		These other universes may affect our universe through dark matter.
		Dark matter may be the attraction That we feel from the presence of other universes out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do we actually prove dark matter is real?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's very easy to prove.
		Vera Rubin, a famous astronomer, showed that the Milky Way galaxy spins too fast for its own good.
		The Milky Way galaxy has been quite stable for billions of years.
		You know, we all see the famous disk of Andromeda Galaxy and spiral galaxies.
		They're very beautiful.
		Every science fiction movie starts with these beautiful spiral galaxies, but they should fly apart.
		They spin too fast.
		According to Newton's laws of motion, too much energy.
		They have too much rotational energy.
		They should fly apart.
		What holds them together is the fact they're surrounded by this halo, this sphere of dark matter, which is invisible.
		You can't see it in any telescope.
		The Hubble Space Telescope does not show the presence of any dark matter.
		But the Hubble Space Telescope can show that dark matter exists because dark matter distorts light, like lens.
		Think of water.
		Water also distorts light, and glass distorts light.
		That's why we have glasses.
		And dark matter distorts light.
		And the Hubble Space Telescope has measured this, measured the distortion of starlight as it goes through the halo of distant galaxies.
		Now, many physicists have stated that the person who could figure out what dark matter is will win the next Nobel Prize in Physics.
		This is definitely worth a Nobel Prize if someone could find out what dark matter is.
		And like I said, many people now believe, though they can't prove, that dark matter will give us a clue to the unified field theory.
		It could be an experimental way of verifying or disproving the string theory.
		And that's why it made the front page.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or otherwise put the theory of everything that is.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And we can now, we think, test it.
		Dark matter is such a bizarre thing.
		We know it exists.
		We have maps of it now.
		And so we need it to keep the galaxy, our own galaxy, stable.
		Otherwise, the Earth and the solar system would have been flung out from the galaxy billions of years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can understand the concept of an atom, even though none of us see it.
		I understand the concept of an atom.
		I don't understand the concept of dark matter as delineated from an atom.
		It's something, but we don't know what it is.
		It's not an atom, but it's something.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		It's something.
		Yeah, it's invisible.
		It has weight.
		If I held it in my hand, it'd be invisible.
		If I dropped it on your foot, you'd say, ouch.
		You'd feel it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, if you could gather...
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		There's dark matter in your room.
		There's dark matter in front of you.
		There's dark matter everywhere.
		It's very rare, very fine.
		And there's enough of it outside the galaxy, outside the galaxy, to hold it together to fly apart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, are there equal amounts in space and in, for example, the atmosphere of Earth, do you suppose?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		There's tiny amounts of it.
		In fact, about two months ago, a group in Rome announced that they had finally discovered dark matter in their laboratory.
		It created quite a sensation.
		But then the physicists at Berkeley and Stanford said, no, it's a false alarm.
		You didn't really discover dark matter.
		But it created quite a flurry in the newspapers about two months ago when a group in Rome announced that they had captured dark matter in a box.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dark matter in a box.
		Do you think they might have?
		Or is it yet to be answered?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		They claim that it consists of subatomic particles.
		They claim that it weighs maybe 50 times the mass of the proton.
		But we've tried to verify that experiment.
		And the people at Stanford and Berkeley say, hold your horses.
		You're jumping the gun.
		They did the same experiment at Berkeley and Stanford.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it sounds like the cold fusion thing.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, however, we have a handle on dark matter.
		We have maps of it now.
		The latest map was announced just last month, in fact, a beautiful map showing the distribution of dark matter throughout our sector of the universe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Done by Hubble?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Done through the Hubble Space Telescope, right.
		That's given us eyes and ears that we never had before.
		Well, mainly eyes, of course, not ears, to see distant objects in outer space.
		And that's why we now believe that dark matter is one of the great mysteries and may give us a clue, a clue to the unified field theory.
		Any unified field theory must explain the reason of why matter, atoms, is only 10% of what really exists, and most of it is dark.
		It's invisible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you imagine will happen if we discover the theory of everything?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How will that change our world?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, people ask me that all the time.
		They say, so what?
		Is it going to give me, you know, better color television?
		Will I get better reception on the internet?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you what.
		This is obviously going to take a second answer.
		Dr. Kaku, hold on.
		We're at the bottom of the hour and we'll be right back.
		My guest is Dr. Michio Kaku, and he is one of our nation's greatest theoretical physicists, co-founder of the string theory.
		And now we're talking about dark matter and the theory of everything.
		The unfinished Einstein theory of everything.
		I guess actually if it gets finished, it wouldn't be his.
		It would be whoever finishes it, I think.
		I don't know, we'll ask about that too.
		But, you know, how would it change everything to know about everything?
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		I'm crazy, it's like me.
		Oh, and hearts feel it's like a little bit of a dark.
		You can see, you can see, you can see, higher and higher, baby, you can see.
		It's a living night.
		To recharge Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, From west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		Push time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, indeed it is.
		Well, there is one person I forgot to mention.
		Dr. Kaku will be, of course, back in just a moment, but there is one person I forgot to mention.
unidentified		And he's Bob Crane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bob and Sue Crane, who Bob, as a sponsor, has been also a very best friend to me and has meant a lot to me over the years.
		Bob started with me back before the network days, back in the days when if we sold one select antenna, they started to have a party up in Fortuna.
		I mean, he was operating from his kitchen table.
		And now, of course, the Sea Grain Company has gone to become a multi-million dollar, many multi-million dollar operation, big company.
		But when it began, I was small.
unidentified		Bob was small.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was on his kitchen table with select attennas, and he's chosen to say something a little different in one of his commercial spots tonight.
		And he sent me a CD and said, play this.
		In a moment, you'll hear from Bob Crane.
		Coming right up.
unidentified		The End This is Bob Crane from C. Crane Company.
		Art, I know the first thing you would say is, what are you doing this for when you should be running an ad?
		Well, the fact is, I can't run an ad the last time.
		Not appropriate.
		Art, you and me go back a long time.
		You were with me the only time we got kicked out of a bar.
		In fact, it's one of the only time I was in a bar.
		Hi, Art.
		This is Sue Crane, and it's been wonderful listening to your shows at night, and I'm going to miss you on air.
		But remember, this is just the beginning of a new era.
		Art, I personally want to thank you, and actually our company would like to thank you for the many great years and wish you and Ramona well.
		The memories of your best radio shows will go down in radio history as some of the best content of any radio show in the history of broadcasting.
		What you did with your radio show is create something out of nothing.
		Nothing existed in the nighttime.
		And you took nothing and grew into the top talk show host ever in the nighttime radio.
		And I would not be surprised if 100 years from now, people were listening to the Art Bell show.
		So I want to thank you for your contribution to radio history.
		Certainly, you will be one of the top broadcasters in the history of radio.
		And lastly, please take care of your family and yourself.
		Get out and do some things and have some fun.
		So someday, someplace, we hope to hear you again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somewhere in time.
		That's Bob Crane.
		Thanks, Bob.
		And it has been a very, very long, wonderful relationship with Bob.
		So Bob and Sue Crane and the C-Crane Company, thank you.
		By the way, Bob Crane, I think, fits somewhere into the theory of everything.
		I don't know where.
		Once again, Dr. Michio Kaku.
		And it's such a concept, Doctor, the theory of everything.
		I guess, let me first, let me ask you this.
		Rather than what's going to happen, I will get to that.
		But let me ask this.
		Are we ready to discover the theory of everything?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that's a good question.
		I think we were probably not ready to discover atomic energy.
		I think the bomb was pretty much given to humanity when humanity was still in the throes of World War.
		And I think that we humans were probably prematurely introduced to nuclear technology.
		However, the unified field theory exists at the energy of black holes and the energy of the creation of the universe itself.
		We're talking about energy necessary to bend time into a pretzel or perhaps punch a hole in hyperspace or leap into the 10th dimension.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Aren't we really talking about the creative force itself?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we're talking about forces that are beyond human ken, forces that do not even exist on the planet Earth.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And that's why when we eventually do master the unified field theory, when we become, you know, what is called a type 3 civilization, then perhaps time travel and perhaps wormholes and perhaps even creating baby universes are going to be within our realm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then let me ask you this, Doctor.
		If you were to discover, if you actually came up with a theory of everything and the implications of that would be both positive and negative for humanity, you would be faced with the same kind of decision that Oppenheimer Was, wouldn't you?
		And I wonder, Doctor, really, have you ever given much thought to, if you did come up with it, would you set it loose?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a very interesting question.
		When Oppenheimer and Bohr and Heisenberg, and in fact, there's a play called Copenhagen that is debuting on Broadway of all places.
		A play called Copenhagen, which was The Rage of London, is now debuting on Broadway about that question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		What happens when the human mind can conceive of nuclear energy and what happens when a Hitler, a Hitler, wants that energy to create an atomic bomb?
		And that's the moral dilemma faced by Bohr and Heisenberg in the Broadway play, Copenhagen.
		What happens when humans have the power of the gods and the humans don't have the wisdom of Solomon to go with the power of a god?
		Then all sorts of havoc could be unleashed on the world, and that's what happened after World War II.
		Now, with the unified field theory, we're talking about cosmic energies, energies that may allow us at some point to harness time machines.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Or perhaps wormholes, that is, shortcuts through space and time, which may allow us to go to the stars perhaps one day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or destroy them.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Or destroy them.
		And maybe one day, perhaps even to leave the universe.
		If the universe gets too cold in the future, we don't necessarily have to die when the universe dies.
		Maybe we'll take a lifeboat and leave the three dimensions of our universe and go into hyperspace.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or again, with all due respect to some people out on Long Island, maybe destroy it.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so right now, we humans simply do not have the energy to tamper with these things.
		But again, you know, thousands of years in the future, when we slowly go from type 0 to type 1 to type 2 into type 3, then this could be commonplace.
		This could be the realm of a typical type 3 civilization, a galactic civilization that uses these energies to bend time and space to their wishes.
		And again, basically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I sort of understand, Doctor, sorry for interrupting.
		I sort of understand what some of the possibilities are.
		Literally, creation or destruction.
		I mean, the theory of everything, unified field theory, would probably allow these manipulations.
		But my question was, if you had an epiphany, if you had this day when you woke up and there it was, one inch long and you had it and you sat down to consider the consequences, positive and negative, kind of like Einstein got it early, maybe earlier than humanity should have had it, and this was all put in your lap, understanding the nature of humanity right now.
		It's more of a social question than anything else.
		The nature of humanity, how far we have come in our type zeroness, you'd have to make a decision, wouldn't you?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		You'd have to make a decision.
		However, the awesome power of the unified field theory is a power that won't be unleashed for thousands of years, in which case humanity may have slowly shed the savagery of the forest, the savagery with which it originally evolved when we came out of the jungle.
		And I would hope that by the time we evolved to the point of handling this cosmic energy, the Planck energy as it's called, 10 to the 19 billion electron volts, that we would have the wisdom to bend space and time in a humanitarian and fruitful way rather than for private gain or for conquest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but the bomb sure did follow the formula real quickly.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Instead of liberating humanity, we got enslaved by the Cold War, and we lived under the sword of Damocles, knowing that this power that was unleashed prematurely on the earth held humanity hostage, basically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		So there is that definite possibility that at some future point, when we are able to bend space and time at will, that it could fall into the wrong hands.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		But like I say, hopefully, by that time, we'll be a planetary, a stellar, a mature civilization, which has had hundreds, thousands of years to handle truly planetary and stellar power, that we would have the wisdom to handle it correctly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you would not hesitate to unleash this formula to your peers, to the world, because there would be nothing that could practically be done with it right away?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's right.
		When Newton worked out the laws of motion, he could calculate what it would take to leap to the moon.
		You have to jump at 25,000 miles per hour, and you can land on the moon.
		He was the first human who, in principle, could even calculate the number of what it would take to jump to the moon.
		But he must have cried knowing that in merry old England of the late 1600s, all they had were horses and buggies, and they could only reach about 15 miles per hour.
		But he must have dreamed of the time when these horses and buggies could evolve into devices like rockets, which would take us to the moon.
		And today we have hydrogen bombs, which are the horses and buggies of today.
		And we can dream about the Planck energy, the energy of creation, the energy of black holes.
		We can dream about this energy.
		But all we have today are hydrogen bombs, which are nothing but horses and buggies compared to the energy necessary to rip open a hole in the fabric of space and time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But a lot of times, you scientists are surprised, it seems like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One day, something is impossible, and the next day, literally, you know, we get a New York Times article that says it's possible.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it's very hard To predict the future.
		As Yogi Berra once said, prediction is very hard to do, especially if it's about the future.
		However, let me say that I recently saw a movie called Frequency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you lucky dog.
		I understand it's just coming out.
		I haven't seen it yet.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I did a review for the Discovery Channel, which is going to air on Friday, and on Discovery News.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Said about a ham operator.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, who then communicates to his dead father of 30 years ago, and as a consequence, tells his dead father how to avoid dying in a fire 30 years ago.
		And then he saves his father from being burned, only to then endanger other people because by accident, a mass murderer, a serial murderer, is unleashed who will then go on to kill his mother.
		And so by talking in the past with this ham radio, when the northern lights are lighting up the night sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like now.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's able to, like right now, by the way, we're in the 11-year solar cycle right now, even as we speak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, there was a story earlier today, Doctor, that the new sparkling International Space Station, they were trying to launch three times consecutively to get up there and to get it back into a higher orbit, lest it come crashing back to Earth.
		And they said the reason they're having this big problem is because of the solar activity.
		The solar activity is actually depressing the orbit of this thing, sending it back to Earth.
		We've got to get up there to boost it up or else.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, every 11 years, the North and South Pole of the Sun flip, believe it or not.
		The North Pole and the South Pole of the Sun flip.
		The North Pole becomes the South Pole and vice versa.
		And that releases a shockwave every 11 years.
		And that shockwave eventually hits the Earth and sends a cascade of ions into the North Pole and the South Pole, which creates the Northern lights, these beautiful lights, which in the movie opened up a hole in space and time whereby the hero could then talk to Dennis Quaid, who is the father of 30 Years Past, and change the past.
		Even as he spoke on the ham radio, he could change the past, and that would immediately ripple to the present.
		So every time he changed the past, the present would be changed, and he would have double memories, triple memories.
		He would remember the old universe and the new universe simultaneously.
		Wow.
		Well, the unified field theory says that that's probably not possible.
		Time is like a river which meanders and speeds up and slows down.
		But the river of time cannot be changed arbitrarily.
		But the river of time can fork into two rivers, we think.
		And this is how we think time travel is resolved.
		The river of time, we think, can fork into two rivers.
		So you cannot really change your own past.
		You've just changed, you saved the father of 30 years ago, who is genetically identical to your real father, but your real father died.
		An alternate universe opens up, a parallel universe opens up, the timeline forks into two timelines, and you've saved somebody else's father.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, they were dealing then in the movie with the paradox question, right?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right, because every time he's on the radio, he changes the past by talking to his father of 30 years ago, who then changes the past, which then ripples immediately to the future.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And so even as he's speaking on the ham radio, things around him change.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I saw a promo for the movie, and it showed a photograph, a family photograph, and suddenly somebody blinked out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They weren't in the photograph anymore.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		When he saved his father from dying in a fire, that set loose a serial killer who then killed his mother.
		So then his mother disappears.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was it a good movie?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		I thought it was a thrilling movie, and of course, it sets you on edge because there is a serial murderer who is constantly hunting for the mother.
		So he has to give orders to his father of 30 years ago in order to save his mother Of today.
		However, as a physicist, I know that you cannot alter the river of time this way.
		You cannot have multiple memories of alternate universes in your mind.
		Your mind is the product of your past, your timeline.
		The timeline can fork into two timelines.
		The timeline can have whirlpools.
		It may be circular.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then they were not allowing for this possibility of the fork that you're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were imagining only a linear line that would be the same.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's right.
		So whenever you change the river of the past, ripples would then progress toward the present and change the present constantly.
		So the guy was constantly changing the reality of the present by giving information on the radio to his father of 30 years ago.
		Literally, things would change.
		Things would change shape, photographs would change, memories would change inside his mind even as he was altering the past by talking onto hand radio.
		Wow.
		Now that's a very ingenious idea.
		There's no time machine.
		There's no blinking dials.
		You don't have to go into a box and spin a dial and go back in the future.
		Here is just your voice.
		It's just radio that goes through a hole in space opened up by the northern lights and allowing you to have a tunnel through time and talk to your parents before you're born.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you know, you know, Doctor, I went up on the, I have a friend who always looks at new patents and on the patent page there is a very serious presentation of a faster-than-light antenna.
		It received its patent.
		It's got a patent.
		Now, I don't know whether such a thing is really possible or not.
		You mentioned the northern lights.
		Surely there is a tremendous amount of energy compression going on in our magnetosphere as we get slammed by the sun at a solar maximum.
		But could a romantic imagine that a radio signal, maybe a ham signal, like the ones I send all the time, could suddenly traverse, if not the present linear timeframe, then find a hole and make it into another dimension?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, I thought about that.
		The Discovery Channel asked me, and it's going to be aired this Friday on their Discovery News, what would it take if the northern lights do not have enough energy?
		And I said what it would take is at least a wandering black hole, a black hole that wanders in the vicinity of the Earth.
		Now this was once considered to be preposterous, and yet just two months ago, three months ago, it was announced that we've now discovered two, not one, but two wandering black holes, over a thousand light years from the Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy small.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Discovered using the Hubble Space Telescope.
		It weighs about six times the mass of our Sun, meaning that it's really too heavy to be a white dwarf or a dwarf star or a neutron star.
		It really is a black hole.
		And it's invisible.
		So we detect it by looking at the distortion of starlight as it moves.
		As it moves, you can actually see starlight changing as it moves past the stars.
		And that is a potential candidate for something that may have enough energy to allow radio to go through to perhaps change the path.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ooh, that's something to really think about.
		All right, hold it right there, and we're going to come right back to frequency.
		About a ham operator who talks to his dead father and changes things.
		Boy, does he change things.
		I'm dying to see that movie.
		And Dr. Kunku just got to see it.
		Lucky, lucky, lucky.
		Well, I'll wait a little longer.
		I understand.
		It's out, I guess, at the end of this week.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast and I'm Art Belt.
		i I really wanna see you.
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		While the blue tall market starts, with the hidden where she leads you to be a taste, then I feel my sight.
		It's like a river running through the year of the camp.
		It's like a river running through the camp.
		Wanna take a ride?
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		And to recharge on the full-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		My guest is Dr. Michio Kaku, one of the nation's best.
		The End We're talking about things that really are kind of hard to wrap your mind around.
		He makes it a lot easier.
		Try and imagine, if you can, for a moment, the theory of everything and what will happen.
		We'll talk about that.
		If it is discovered.
		A little formula, one inch long.
		Or maybe you'd like to contemplate the possibility of a wandering black hole.
		For example, what happens if it wanders toward us?
unidentified		What happens if it wanders toward us?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I've actually been toying with the idea for years now of communicating with all of you after I'm gone, after I'm dead.
		I've said for a long time, when I'm gone, watch for me, listen for me in between stations, listen for me somewhere on the airwaves, because that's no doubt if I could communicate back from the dead where I would be.
		And I've said that for years and years, and it occurs to me that if I do go, you might check the area adjacent to the hydrogen frequency.
		You know, I'll make it easy for you.
		We'll do it up near hydrogen somewhere.
		But I've been playing with that idea for years, Doctor.
		So it's an intriguing...
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		But I think what is thrilling about that movie is that it tries to popularize ideas in modern science.
		The movie actually mentions string theory, by the way.
		I think it's the first commercial movie that actually mentions string theory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you must have jumped right up at that one.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Right, that's right.
		Because string theory gives us a possibility of perhaps one day building a wormhole that'll take us to the stars, perhaps maybe a time machine that may allow us to communicate to some distant point in the past.
		Or it may prove to us that these things are not possible.
		Einstein's theory doesn't go far enough.
		Einstein's theory of these wormholes.
		It says nothing about what happens when you fall through one.
		What happens if radiation effects kill you or if radiation effects bottle up the wormhole?
		It says nothing about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it would be good to send some microwave energy before a human through, right?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		I think definitely we should send radio and microwave through the thing before we do.
		And like I said, with the wandering black holes now being discovered, perhaps one day we might do experiments on some of these wandering black holes.
		They're only a few thousand light years from the Earth.
		That's very close to us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can see that galaxies.
		First of all, black holes weren't supposed to wander.
		We always imagined them circling, swirling, but in one place.
		And now they're wandering.
		If one should wander toward us, Professor, what would happen?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think at that point we would have to kiss our bottom goodbye.
		A black hole, of course, would be sufficient to swallow the Earth and the solar system and not even burp.
		It wouldn't even notice the fact that it swallowed up the Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How close would it have to get to do that?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, you would have to get within what is called the Schwartzhield radius, the point of no return of the black hole.
		And depending upon the size of the black hole, the short shield radius can change.
		The short shield radius of our Sun, for example, is about one mile across.
		Our Sun will never get squeezed to that point, and therefore our Sun will never become a black hole.
		But large stars that are 10 to 50 times the mass of our Sun, they will in the future be compressed down to about a few miles across.
		And at that point, they would be sufficient to collapse on themselves and become a black hole.
		So they would be quite dangerous.
		However, they would allow us, I think, to test the unified field theory.
		Black holes are objects with gravitational forces so intense that quantum effects we should be able to see, and we should be able to use them as a laboratory.
		Just like we hope to use dark matter as a laboratory to test for the unified field theory, we might be able to use wandering black holes also to test for the unified field theory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did we figure out, by the way, that they wander?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		By looking at the Hubble Space Telescope pictures, we find that the distortion of starlight moved with time.
		They tracked it actually over several years.
		In fact, they tracked 300 such objects.
		They wander, and as they move, the stars in front of them get distorted.
		They brighten.
		They move, they dim.
		And then if you track it over a period of time and then run it like a motion picture, you can actually see this thing move across the heavens, even though it's invisible.
		The distortion is clearly visible if you run it real fast through a motion picture camera.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do we know enough to say they wander at a constant speed?
		And do we know what that speed is?
		Does it vary?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you can calculate the speed of it because it's sort of like taking time-lapse pictures of starlight and finding that the stars dim and get brighter as this object moves behind the stars.
		You can calculate how fast they move.
		And like I said, we've now found two of these things, and there are 300 such objects that are being tracked that are not yet conclusively shown to be black holes or anything.
		So they're tracking about 300 of these things, and two of them have been calculated to have a mass of six times the mass of our sun, which is just right for a black hole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how fast are they moving?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're definitely moving, you know, many thousands of kilometers per hour.
		Fortunately, they're not moving in our direction, so they don't have our number on it.
		They don't have our name on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is the ones that we've seen.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		The ones that we've seen, right.
		So we now know that they're quite dangerous.
		And if they ever do come close to the Earth, it'll give us a chance to experiment with one.
		But if they come really close to the Earth, it'll just suck the Earth in and not even bother to notice it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What a concept.
		It wouldn't even burp.
		It would just, we'd blink out.
		I mean, we would cease to exist?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		What?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, what happened is we would fall through the event horizon, the short shore radius.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And for you falling into the short shore radius, it would take you only like a microsecond or so to fall through the point of no return.
		From somebody on the outside, however, somebody far away watching you being gobbled up, it would take thousands of years for you to be gobbled up.
		So you would be like frozen, yelling and screaming as you fell into this black hole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, what an attractive idea.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and the Hubble Space Telescope has now photographed, is happening.
		We've actually photographed a black hole having lunch.
		There it is, eating.
		There it is, eating gas and stellar material being sucked in.
		Yes.
		And we've actually photographed that now.
		So black holes having lunch have now been photographed as they actively Eat up the stars and the gas around it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they're like the mindless sharks of the ocean, aren't they?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're just eating machines.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And there's one at the center of the Milky Way galaxy, our own home galaxy.
		It's not very active.
		We now know where it's located, in the direction of Sagittarius, in fact.
		And it turns out that the black hole at the center of the Milky Way galaxy is very big, millions of times the mass of our sun.
		But gas orbits around this black hole, and that's why it doesn't eat up anything anymore.
		So our black hole is not having lunch anymore.
		Basically, stars orbit around the black hole at the center of our Milky Way galaxy.
		So we orbit around, satellites orbit around the Earth, the Earth orbits around the Sun, and the Sun orbits around the black hole at the center of the Milky Way galaxy in the direction of Sagittarius.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When a black hole eats a planet or a sun or a whole system, has its lunch, does it become bigger and stronger or weaker?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		It becomes bigger and stronger.
		And we think that the quasars, which are the farthest objects that we can photograph with our telescopes, are baby galaxies where we have this raging black hole having breakfast.
		They're quite young.
		They're still ravaging the stars and the gas around them.
		They're not quiescent like our black hole in the Milky Way galaxy.
		Our black hole has already had its dinner, and it's quite mild.
		It's not eating anything right now.
		But the quasars, baby galaxies at the edge of the visible universe, these are the farthest objects you can photograph.
		These baby galaxies have raging black holes that are having breakfast.
		You can see them just ripping apart the gas and the molecules that make up the quasars or quasi-stellar objects, which we think are baby galaxies.
		Our galaxy, our Milky Way galaxy, was probably a quasar 12 billion years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, that's hard to imagine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said you were talking earlier about baby universes.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if we can create baby universes, for example, then what's wrong with the concept that, for example, we might be someone else's baby universe?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's a definite idea that sends chills up your spine, but we physicists have indeed thought about that before.
		First of all, a baby universe is nothing but a bubble, this membrane, this bubble that exists in an ocean of hyperspace.
		These bubbles probably form all the time.
		There are probably big bangs taking place even as we speak, even as we talk.
		There are probably big bangs happening far, far away in hyperspace.
		But those bubbles pop into existence and pop out of existence real fast.
		They don't really have much of a life.
		Our universe, we now realize, is actually quite special.
		It's expanding and it's accelerating now.
		It's not slowing down.
		It's actually speeding up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was another recent find that seems to back up this concept of dark matter, right?
		Why should things be speeding up?
		They shouldn't be.
		After an explosion, any explosion, the way we understand physics, things blow outward and then slow down and finally fall to ground.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		That's what we thought would be happening, that our universe would be getting older and gradually slow down, but in fact it's speeding up.
		And we think it's speeding up because of a very mild anti-gravity that you can add into Einstein's equations.
		There are two terms you can play with in Einstein's equations.
		One of them is the energy of curvature of space, matter curves space, and that has energy associated with it.
		But there's also the energy of nothing, the energy of the vacuum.
		Einstein thought that should be zero, right?
		I mean, emptiness is emptiness.
		But we now realize that emptiness is not empty.
		Emptiness is frothing with particles, virtual particles, dancing in and out of the vacuum.
		The Nobel Prize was given to physicists who actually calculated the energies of these virtual particles.
		And on a universal scale, this creates what is called a cosmological constant or anti-gravity, which pushes the galaxies apart.
		Now, this is not the anti-gravity you see in science fiction stories where you jump on a platform and you hover to the moon by standing on a platform.
		That's not the anti-gravity I'm talking about.
		This is a very mild anti-gravity, which is pushing the galaxies apart faster and faster.
		And it does seem to fit the data.
		It does seem to fit the fact that the universe has a cosmological constant, which is in some sense, I find, kind of depressing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		It means that our universe will die in ice rather than fire.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		It means our universe will become very cold in the future, and we'll be like homeless people huddled next to the dying embers of neutron stars and black holes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, it means we'll be all alone, more or less, doesn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, everything finally moving away from us, isolated.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Moving away from us and getting colder and getting colder as a consequence, right?
		And that's kind of depressing.
		And that will sell the end of all intelligent beings in our universe.
		If you're type 1, type 2, there's no escape from the depth of the universe itself.
		However, if you are type 3 and you can master the Planck energy, then what you may do is create a baby universe.
		This may be the only salvation for intelligent life in our universe.
		There may be no choice in the matter.
		That if you have that kind of fabulous energy, you may want to punch a tiny hole in our universe, like on a balloon that's expanding.
		Pinch off a small baby balloon.
		Pinch off a little piece of the balloon so that it buds.
		It buds into a small little thing that gets bigger and bigger and bigger.
		And you basically inflate your life raft to create a baby universe out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You create a new place for yourself.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And Stephen Hawking's latest book is Black Holes and Baby Universes, where baby universe is his central, central idea to the concept of a multiverse or megaverse, that our universe is one bubble among many bubbles out there That form the multiverse or the megaverse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, Professor, if we could do that, wouldn't we be saying, let there be light?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		In some sense, yes.
		In some sense, we are gods that say, let there be light.
		Out of the mist comes a universe that we will create in seven days.
		So, in some sense, it does seem to correspond to religious mythology.
		This time, of course, when mortals aspire to be gods.
		And, of course, you would have to be at least a type 3 civilization to do this.
		Our civilization is too primitive to do this.
		But the laws of physics may allow the possibility of creating a baby universe by which we can escape our dying universe to go into a universe that's warmer.
		And even though this was considered a fringe idea several years ago, it's now mainstream cosmology.
		You can go to any cosmologist and have a very interesting debate about the multiverse, which is now the dominant theory within what is called quantum cosmology.
		These are quantum bubbles floating in an ocean of 11-dimensional hyperspace.
		And again, this picture is the picture that made the front page of the New York Times last month.
		It's a startling picture, but it is totally consistent with the unified field theory or the piece of it that we have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, remember Q?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Q on Star Trek?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Q had this power, but he was a twerp.
		I mean, he was a little troublemaking twerp, but he had this power.
		Could it be that humanity one day will get this power and be the little twerps that Q was?
		Or will we socially advance right along with the power and responsibly handle the power unlike Q?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, personally, I think that Q is Type 4.
		He is beyond galactic.
		He plays with galaxies.
		There's one episode of Star Trek where he actually plays with the Milky Way galaxy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		So he would, by definition, be type 4.
		He would be extra galactic.
		And at that point, he would be a god.
		And personally, I think that as we aspire to higher and higher civilizations, if we don't blow ourselves up in the process, but if we aspire to higher levels of civilization, we'll still have in the back of our brain the savagery of the jungle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The last thing we need is an anal retentive god.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		But I think that we humans, unless we can change our thinking patterns, have within us the limbic system.
		The limbic system is a very ancient part of the brain.
		It is the so-called monkey brain, the brain of all these emotional passions and angers and jealousies and hatreds and murderous rage.
		It's in our brain.
		It's part of the limbic system of our brain, the very emotional brain of raging emotions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It comes from our primitive beginnings.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And hopefully in the future, as civilization becomes planetary and these passions of old are forgotten, we'll be able to suppress many of these ancient urges that are still with us.
		You look at children.
		You know, children are in a very primitive state of emotional development.
		And you can see they attack each other.
		They're not noble beings at all.
		They do all sorts of crazy things to each other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold it right there.
		We're at the bottom of the hour once again.
		Time flies.
		One of our nation's greatest theoretical physicists is my guest, Dr. Michio Kaku.
		From the high desert, I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast A.M. I tried to reach for you, but you have lost your mind.
unidentified		Whatever happened to our love, I wish I understood it just to fade the lights.
		It just could fade to light.
		Oh, when you're near me, darling, can you hear me?
		It's always...
		My love you gave me nothing, it can take me and stop it When you're gone, how can I even try to go on?
		When you're gone, so I try, how can I carry on?
		Want to take a ride?
		Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach ART at 1-775-727-1222.
		The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		And to call ART on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		Dr. Michiu Kaku is here.
		Remember Q in Star Trek?
		Q was from a fourth-level civilization.
		A fourth-level civilization.
		Bear in mind, we're a zero, right?
		He was a fourth-level civilization character, and he was an immature troublemaker.
		So you've got to wonder if something like that couldn't happen.
		How could it happen?
		Well, suppose, for example, that we made contact.
		What do I mean by that?
		I mean, somebody came to see us, or a Dr. Cuckoo discovers a way to go see somebody else, and we make contact.
		And all of a sudden, we know how to do essentially what Q was able to do.
		How many out there, raise your hands, think we would survive that experience?
		Gonna do it to me Even on my last day, huh?
		All right.
		You know, this computer next to me should bear in mind that I have, in the past, shot computers.
		That's right, I've actually shot computers.
		It was a very immature act indeed, but I did.
		I took a computer out and I put a 223 through its disgusting little belly.
		So you think about that computer.
		Doctor, welcome back.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Glad to be on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, I'd not be the guy to have the power of cue.
unidentified		Right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Oh, by the way, before we go on, let me just make the announcement that I have a new webpage address.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you do?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's mkaku.org.
		Very simple.
		M-K-A-K-U.org.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we're going to get a we'll get a link up right now.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Okay, it says mkaku.org.
		It's put together by Northern Point.
		Northern Point, a group operating out of Detroit, they helped me to put together this new webpage.
		And hopefully it'll answer a lot of the questions that are being raised in today's program and also give you a way to contact me if you want through email.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's absolutely excellent.
		Well, you'll get a lot of email.
		mkakukereulistening.org.
		I know he is.
		And so he'll have that on our website within seconds, and so you can jump over there.
		Wow, that's excellent.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's in the process of being made.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		It's not quite finished, but it'll be finished this week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, kind of like the theory of everything.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe not this week, though.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Although, you know, what I raised when I came back, can you imagine that another, in other words, contact.
		Imagine contact any way you want.
		They reach us, we reach them.
		More likely, they would reach us, I suppose.
		And would there be, in your estimation, a prime directive that would keep that information from us, even if there was contact?
		Or is it likely that that would be given to us as a gift that they considered us ready to receive?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yes, or there's a third possibility if you bump into an anthill, you don't go down to the ants and say, I bring you trinkets and I bring you beads and I bring you knowledge and power and medicine.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		You go to the ants and you step on them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have a problem in my driveway every now and then, and I do exactly that.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		So there's the possibility that perhaps they'll ignore us because we're simply part of the background.
		And there's also the possibility that they could be very close to us, and we wouldn't even know it.
		If you're ants and somebody's building a 10-lane superhighway next to your anthill, the ants would not even know that there's a 10-lane superhighway being built next to their anthill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		They wouldn't have the sensors.
		They wouldn't have the imagination.
		They wouldn't have the intelligence to understand what this 10-lane superhighway is next door.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Lord, I never thought about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So somebody could come along and just build a highway through us, and we'd be like an anthill.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we wouldn't even know it.
		However, let me also point out...
		Yeah.
		We, physicists and astronomers, have now located 32 extrasolar planets in outer space orbiting other star systems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And we discovered them at the rate of one a month now.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's how quickly we discover these planets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And smaller and smaller at that time.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		They get smaller and smaller, right?
		And that's what's sending chills up our spine, knowing that these planets out there, we can detect them the size of Saturn.
		And however, there is one depressing thing.
		We have now so many planetary systems that we can actually catalog them.
		And we find, much to our big disappointment, that none of them have life as we know it on them.
		Their Jupiter-sized planets are in highly oval or elliptical shapes.
		Now, that's very dangerous because if our Jupiter all of a sudden had an elliptical orbit and bypassed the Earth's orbit, it would literally fling the Earth into outer space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now that is depressing.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That is depressing.
		And all of these planetary systems that we've seen before either have elliptical, oval, Jupiter-sized planets in these elliptical orbits, or they have their Jupiter-sized planets very close to the Sun, so close that it would rip apart or throw any Earth-like planet into outer space.
		Our Jupiter is very far away.
		Our Jupiter is in a circular orbit, so it never comes close to the Earth.
		And that's good because it takes billions of years to get DNA off the ground.
		And if these Jupiters are in highly elliptical orbits, there's no way that DNA could get off the ground in a very short period of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but we have not yet detected the like is it not likely that in many systems there would be Earth-sized planets, though we've not yet seen them.
		It's logical we have not yet seen them.
		We can't see anything that small.
		But if the big ones are there, shouldn't the small ones be there too?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		We think so.
		So far, we've only seen abnormal solar systems.
		If our solar system had a twin in outer space, our telescopes are probably not powerful enough to resolve our own solar system in outer space.
		So we do think that once we have the space interferometry satellite in orbit in about 15 years, in about 15 years' time, we should have a satellite in orbit that specifically will look for tiny Earth-like planets in outer space.
		And then we'll have an existential shock on a Saturday night date, looking at the stars with our date, realizing that there are hundreds of twins of the Earth staring at us from outer space.
		Some of them perhaps with oxygen, some of them with liquid water.
		And that's what you need to get life off the ground, liquid water.
		It's the universal solvent.
		It dissolves chemicals that make DNA possible.
		And we think that there may be Earth-sized planets out there with liquid water on them that will be detected in about 15 years' time when we get the space interferometry satellite launched.
		And that could be a revolution in how we view the universe.
		Not just Jupiter-sized planets, but twins of the Earth, perhaps, in outer space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then the calculations of the probability of life, intelligent life, Go right through the roof, don't they?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		There have been a number of articles and books recently saying that life is so rare that we may be the only intelligent life form in the galaxy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it possible?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think these calculations are too primitive.
		You cannot make any judgment right now as to the probability of intelligent life forms in our galaxy because we don't have enough data.
		Frank Drake estimated that there should be 10,000 planets in our galaxy that have intelligent life.
		Carl Sagan estimated a million.
unidentified		Wow.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And there are some astronomers who now claim one.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That is, we are the only planet with intelligent life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On what do they base that?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, there is some logic to it.
		No, we are in the Goldilocks zone of our Sun.
		We're not too close, not too far from the Sun.
		We're just right to have liquid water, the universal solvent that makes DNA possible.
		Our galaxy has a Goldilocks zone.
		If our Earth were too close to the black hole at the center of the Milky Way galaxy, we'd be fried apart because it's too radioactive and too much cosmic rays there.
		If we're too far from the center of the galaxy, then there's not enough heavy elements, you know, heavy elements that make up our body beyond lithium, beryllium, hydrogen, what have you.
		So if you're too far from the center of the galaxy, there's not enough raw material to get DNA out to God.
		So we're about two-thirds the way out from the Milky Way galaxy center, which is just right.
		It's the Goldilocks zone of the galaxy.
		So we think that, yes, it is rare.
		We think that life is rare in the galaxy, but there are so many stars in the Milky Way galaxy, 200 billion stars, that even a fraction of them would still give us thousands of planets with intelligent life forms.
		So I think it's still premature to make any of these guesses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which possibility would surprise you more?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		I think what would surprise me more if we're the only one.
		If we are the only one, that would really surprise me.
		As Arthur C. Clarke said, either we are alone or we are not alone.
		Either proposition is frightening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
		Would it change, Professor, your views about creation and the possibility of the God of the Bible?
		Would it change any of that for you if we did make a determination that, hey, we're it?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		If we were the only ones in the universe, that would be quite scary.
		It would be frightening, in fact, because we are ripping apart our planet, polluting it, degrading the oceans, degrading the atmosphere.
		And if we're the only ones and we are the cradle, the cradle of intelligent life for the Milky Way galaxy, and here we are, you know, flushing it down the toilet, that's very depressing.
		So I would like to believe that there are other star systems out there that could have type 1 civilizations that are mature, that have solved the greenhouse effect, that have solved nuclear weapons.
		They've attained planetary status.
		They are type 1.
		I would love to believe that there are stable, mature type 1 civilizations out there that have negotiated all these barriers.
		Because if we're the only one, it's pretty scary.
		It's pretty scary to be the only one and to have the cradle of intelligent life and then to mess it up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's stick with the pressing thought for a moment that we might be the only one.
		And looking at what we're doing, I think most of the audience understands what you mean by a type 0, a type 1, a type 2, a type 3, a type 4.
		Maybe they don't, and maybe we should give them the 101 on that.
		You know, as you look around, with 40% of the Arctic ice gone, with the global warming or the greenhouse effect or whatever it is that's going on, our weather certainly is in the midst of a big change.
		That's obvious.
		A lot of things are happening, some of them not so good for Earth.
		You can calculate odds for just about everything else.
		Seems to me you can calculate the odds of us becoming type 1 and us remaining type 0 and virtually eliminating ourselves.
		I'm sure they're depressing numbers.
		Do you have any idea what they're like?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's hard to say.
		In my latest book, Visions, I tried to paint the world of 2100 and 2050 and 2020.
		You know, what will computers look like?
		What will we have robots?
		Will we cure cancer?
		Will we cure the aging process by 2050 or 2100?
		But then I also have to ask the question, are we going to make it 2100?
		Exactly.
		Will we mess up the atmosphere so much that, as you point out, will the poles begin to crack and thaw out?
		Will Alaska, already large parts of Alaska, beginning to thaw out?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Antarctic giant hunks falling off?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, 1998, two years ago, went down as the warmest year ever recorded in the history of science.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Last year it would have made it, except for El Nino.
		But 1998 has gone down as the hottest year ever recorded in the history of science.
		And that goes back 1,000 years.
		And by looking at tree rings and lake sediments, we can go back about 1,000 years.
		And it's very humbling realizing that we are in a historic, geologically historic era, the hottest year ever recorded in the history of science.
		The last three months of this year, 2000, were the hottest months ever recorded by the National Weather Bureau.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One after another.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in 100 years since the United States has been calculating weather patterns, the last three months, January, February, March of 2000, were the hottest months recorded.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if you really lay it on the line for us, Professor, what are our odds?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Present trends considered.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		I think we would have to put it pretty low, 10, 20 percent.
		It's pretty low, the way in which we are messing up the planet and the fact that no one's doing anything about it.
		That's the frightening thing, the fact that we're just watching it happen.
		It's sort of like a deer caught in the headlights of a car.
		The deer sees it coming.
		The deer says to itself, Hmm, I think there's a car coming at me.
		I think a car is coming very close to me.
		And then, whack, it hits the deer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying the human race is like a deer caught in the headlights.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		We see it coming.
		You can see it coming, and we're paralyzed because people say, Well, maybe it's going to go away.
		You know, maybe it's just a bad dream we had, right?
		But I personally think that there could be a lot of type zeros out there that never made it to type one.
		When we develop starships and we visit some of the nearby stars, we may see planets with radioactive atmospheres.
		We may see planets that have their atmosphere too hot to sustain life.
		And when we visit the nearby stars, it could be very depressing, realizing that some of the intelligent life forms out there never made it past the savagery that's contained in the back of their brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, there are some who are, they would say they're not caught in the headlights.
		They would say, look, it says in the Bible that all of this has been put here for us to use, and that's what we're doing.
		It'll all work out.
		Don't worry about it.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the best case scenario.
		But I think we as humans have to look at not just the best case scenario, but the most likely scenario.
		And the most likely scenario is that we will have sea level rise.
		We're going to have monster hurricanes.
		And a monster hurricane can dump a lot of water into Manhattan and flood the subway system.
		New Orleans is below sea level.
		New Orleans is the city that's most endangered because of the greenhouse effect.
		It is below sea level for the most part.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you know, Professor, they're evacuating some Pacific Islands now because they're going underwater.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and you may have second thoughts before you buy beachfront property because, you know, by the time you retire and give them to your kids, the beachfront property may be worthless if it wants to hurricane develop.
		Hurricanes get their energy from warm water.
		That's where hurricanes get their ferocious power.
		And as the ocean water is warm, it gives hurricanes more energy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gee, I'm glad you brought that up because I'm sure you've heard that they just measured a half degree rise at 1,000 feet below sea level.
		And their detectable rise all the way down to 10,000 feet below sea level under the ocean.
		Now, it's an unimaginable amount of energy in my mind that could produce...
		What could produce enough energy to cause a rise of a half degree at 1,000 feet?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we are talking about global warming.
		One of the reasons why the atmosphere of the Earth has only heated one degree after pumping all this carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, most scientists now realize that it's because it went into the oceans.
		The oceans do absorb a lot of heat, and they also absorb a lot of carbon dioxide.
		So we have a temporary sink that is preventing the Earth from rising more than just about a degree over the last hundred years.
		However, sooner or later the oceans are going to rebel.
		They're going to say, well, look, I've absorbed enough carbon dioxide.
		I've absorbed enough heat.
		Now you take it, right?
		And then at that point, the temperature of the Earth could rise very rapidly.
		You know, the North Pole and South Pole, they've heated, parts of the South Pole have heated up four degrees, four degrees within the last 50 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard that.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's catastrophic.
		You know, one degree in the last century, one degree in the last century is the average temperature rise of the Earth.
		But in the South Pole, it's been four degrees in the last 50 years in certain parts of the South Pole.
		And that ultimately causes some concerns.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When the oceans give it back, they're going to give it back.
		In fact, actually, they're beginning to give it back now.
		We're getting the biggest hurricanes, the biggest typhoons that we've ever seen, just really scary monsters of typhoons.
		And that's the beginning of the give back, isn't it?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps, you know, the insurance companies are desperately afraid that they're going to go bankrupt if we have a big monster hurricane.
		In the future, it may be impossible to get hurricane insurance because one big one could literally wipe out hundreds of billions of dollars throughout the Caribbean.
		And not to mention, by the way, that, and this is in the New York Times just this week, there's a drought affecting the growing areas of the United States, probably because of global warming, which could mean that the breadbasket, the growing areas that have made food so cheap in the United States, the growing areas could gradually become a dust bowl like they were back in the 1930s or even worse.
		Now that could have catastrophic implications for our economy if food, which is one of the big exports of the United States, if food is affected because of drought.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then the rest is obvious.
		Doctor, hold on.
		Professor Michio Kaku is my guest.
		I wonder if we can really go back.
unidentified		All right, it's coming along.
		We gotta get right back to where we're starting from.
		Love is good, love is gone.
		We've got to get right back to where we started from.
		Do you remember that day?
		That's your needy day.
		When you put my mind on.
		Holding you with a warmth that I thought I could never find, holding by your side.
		I know I could cry.
		I took him for the answers to the questions that keep going through my mind.
		Hey, baby.
		It's time to stay.
		Five minutes and times away.
		It's time to stay on the day.
		It's time to stay.
		Five minutes and times away.
		I see visions of someone like you in my life.
		A love that's strong, you're not holding me through the dark sky.
		Wanna take a ride?
		Call Art Bell from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-8255-033.
		775-727-1222.
		Or call the Wildcard line at 775-727-1295.
		To talk with Art on the 2-3 International Line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you think really hard about it, you've got to wonder how a theater.
		By the way, somebody just noticed and sent me a facts about the fact that the final webcam picture that we are taking, my wife and I took together, and I've got a t-shirt here, a new one from South Park that says Cartman.
		But if you'll notice when my wife is in the picture, you see is not there, and it just says Artman.
		Purely, I assure you, completely unintentional.
		I didn't even notice till I get a facts.
unidentified		Amazing.
		Maybe not.
		Yeah, who knows?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My final webcam photo is pretty interesting.
		And, of course, as I said, Dr. Kaku's new website is now there for your perusal.
		Now, here comes a question, Professor, from Neil at Topaz Ranch.
		Art.
		So here we are, stuck with all our primal instincts inside the bubblefoot of some balloon horse that a clown has made for some kid at a circus, midway in some circus that's so huge we don't even know it exists.
		Well, just another reason not to quit smoking, right, Art?
		In other words, that is certainly one possibility that people like yourself have to consider.
		And how do you, at times, as you mull these things over, Professor, keep from getting depressed?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, when I open up the newspaper, not only do I see dire warnings of global warming and pollution and the proliferation of nuclear weapons to India and Pakistan, I also see the seeds of a Type 1 civilization blossoming before our eyes.
		What is the Internet?
		The Internet is nothing but a Type 1 telephone system.
		It's the beginning of a telephone system of an emerging Type 1 civilization.
		There's a Type 1 language emerging before our eyes.
		It's called English.
		You can go to any place on the earth and talk to educated people, and we can converse in English as a universal type 1 language.
		There's an emerging type 1 economy coming out of the ground.
		Look at the European Union.
		These countries have slaughtered each other for the last 10,000 years, ever since the ice melted over Europe.
		And now, for the first time in 10,000 years, these peoples have banded together to form a common economic union.
		There's even a type 1 culture emerging.
		You can go to any place on the earth and show pictures of two people instantly recognizable by anyone on the earth.
		They're not Bill Clinton or Hillary Clinton.
		They're Arnold Schwarzenegger and Madonna.
		So my God, I mean, we're going to have a bubblegum, blue jeans, rock and roll culture that is a foundation of a type 1 culture.
		So what I see is every time I open the newspaper, I see the beginnings of a type 1 language, economy, culture, telephone system.
		And to me, this means that if we can hold back our rapacious savage instincts, we could create an age of Aquarius on the Earth.
		So there are two trends emerging on the Earth right now.
		One trend is toward unification, like in Europe.
		One trend is toward reaching for a planetary type 1 civilization.
		The other trend is toward the abyss.
		The other trend is toward global warming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		It is toward eating up all natural resources, overpopulation, squandering of the oceans and the air, our birthrights.
		We're essentially dumping all this garbage in the ocean and the air.
		But the other side of the coin is we're seeing the birth pangs of a Taiwan civilization being born right before my eyes.
		And sometimes I feel privileged to see it happen.
		I'm privileged to see it happen in the newspapers every day, the beginnings of a Taipei 1 civilization being born.
		So if we don't blow it, if we don't really mess up the Earth with nuclear proliferation, as nuclear weapons proliferate to India and Pakistan, we don't blow up global warming, we could literally create a paradise on Earth.
		We certainly have enough technology in terms of computers, DNA technology to do this.
		And then when I read the medical journals, then we are approaching, unraveling the aging process at the genetic level.
unidentified		We are approaching the medical attention at the genetic level again.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And we may even have the possibility of one day creating nanotechnology, that is, atomic machines, that could unleash a second industrial revolution.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, all of that is true, but objectively, if you look at both sides, I don't see time on our side right now.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a race against time.
		We do have, I think, a few decades to go before we get the point of where we turn where the degradation of the atmosphere and the oceans will be so severe that nobody will be able to reverse it.
		I think we still have a window, but the window is closing pretty rapidly.
		But we're going to, well, we have to organize it.
		Not only to converse with each other and entertain each other, but also to be part of the political process, to influence candidates, to influence initiatives.
		You know, we physicists helped to create the Internet of Nuclear War.
		It was to be used to, you know, rebuild America after World War III.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that really what the beginning of it was?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		I mentioned it in my book, Visions, when I talk about the origin of the Internet.
		One of the reasons why your email is broken up into many pieces and sent through many cities and then reassembled at the other end.
		That's why your header, your header is so big, where all the messages went, is because in a nuclear war, many cities will be vaporized.
		And so your message may not reach the destination if there's only one path.
		Therefore, your message is broken up and sent through many paths and then reassembled at the other end.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So another way is that you're sent through a cobweb, a giant cobweb.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You might get a piece of it, but it's still going to get delivered.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's why email was created that way.
		that is broken up and reassembled at the other end, partly to survive a nuclear war.
		I really love the original thinking, doctor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was the original thinking?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That was the original thinking, right.
		Remember, the Internet...
		It was originally a Pentagon secret plan that we did the system of mathematicians created.
		I've been on the internet for, you know, 15 years or so.
		And it was basically for the scientists to talk to other scientists to rebuild America after World War III.
unidentified		Wow.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And so, you know, it was very depressing when I first saw the internet years and years ago, realizing that this was a boom-day telephone system.
		And what I was used to rebuild chemical factories and rebuild hospitals after World War III is a durograde amount.
		And when the Cold War ended, And all of the Pentagon and the National Science Foundation decided to simply let it loose.
		And that's why we have the Internet.
		It's because the COVID media broke up.
		If they had not broken up, it would still be the proposed device for scientists to communicate with each other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So from the seeds of doomed doomsday, comes possibly the salvation of humanity.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That's why I see the seeds trying to bust through the shoots, the buds, trying to bust through this pessimism.
		Because when I was on the internet, it was quite depressing at first, realizing that this was a Pentagon device that I was basically allowed to use because scientists were hooked up first, and it was used basically as a doomsday machine.
		But now, I mean, think about it.
		Even Greenpeace uses the Internet and how to organize demonstrations that save the whales.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've frequently wondered how the government feels about that.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		So I think the solution to the problem is democracy, democracy, and more democracy.
		The more power is given to people, the power to organize, the power to educate, the power to laugh, the power to love, as long as that power is diffused throughout the people, then democracy will kick in, and then people will get their way.
		You know, as Eisenhower once said, one day the people are going to get so fed up, they're going to push the politicians out, and they're going to get their way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me again go to the dark side and ask you a question.
		The Cold War is over, yes.
		But as you pointed out, India, Pakistan, Russia is in terrible turmoil.
		The Chinese, of course, are ever-present Chinese with their nuclear weapons and so forth and so on.
		Doctor, if there was, I mean, you said survival of a nuclear war or the rebuilding after.
		If there was a full thermonuclear exchange, if we still made that horrible mistake and there was a full thermonuclear exchange, what would be left?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, not much.
		Carl Sagan did that famous study showing that perhaps only 100 nuclear bombs, just 100 megatons, would be enough to set off an atmospheric darkening of the skies, which would plunge the temperature of the Earth so that nothing would grow.
		Humans would gradually freeze to death.
		Nuclear winter was a possibility with only 100 hydrogen bombs being detonated.
		And now we have the former Soviet Union with upwards of 10,000 nuclear bombs, and they don't even know where some of these bombs are.
		I spoke in Russia about five years ago as a guest of the Russian Academy of Sciences, and some Russian physicists came up to me and asked me for a job.
		These were weapons scientists.
		I could have hired weapons scientists and become a nuclear power if I wanted to by hiring some of these people.
		They're looking for jobs now.
		And that's kind of frightening, knowing that these are bomb physicists who are out of a job and have to feed their families and ask me for a job.
		So that's kind of frightening, knowing that they could wind up in some of the most unstable areas of the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would there be in a full nuclear exchange any survivors ultimately?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		There may be some survivors, but they'll live in such wretched conditions that, you know, as Khrushchev once said, the living will envy the dead because the living will live in wretched conditions.
		Food is going to be scarce.
		We'll revert back to Stone Age savagery.
		You know, we'd like to think of ourselves as being civilized, but you take a bunch of us and put us in the middle of the forest, and within a few days, we revert back to Stone Age Might Makes Right.
		We're that close to being part of the Stone Age culture.
		And so I think that if there is a nuclear war or if a nuclear exchange takes place, then, yeah, the atmosphere could be destabilized and pockets of humanity would live miserably.
		And that, by the way, is one reason why I think that the United States should not develop a Star Wars program, because it's frightening the Chinese and the Russians, and it's going to spur them to build more nuclear bombs to penetrate a Star Wars shield.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are we working on it, Professor?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Definitely.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		$4 billion a year are being pumped into a Star Wars program.
unidentified		That's a lot.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's a lot of moolah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of money.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		It's $40 billion a year.
		And ultimately, well, so far it's consumed about $100 billion.
		Not one weapon system has come out of it so far.
unidentified		That they're telling us about.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it's a system that doesn't work.
		And it's a system that's frightening the Chinese, frightening the Russians, and they have vowed to pierce it, which means flooding the shield with more bombs and decoys.
		And decoys only consist of tinfoil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if asked, you would not work on Star Wars.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		I think it's in the wrong direction.
		I think the people of the world want peace.
		We just got through the Cold War.
		We got through all these nuclear scares.
		And here's the Pentagon racing ahead with the next generation of devices called anti-missile systems.
		And chances are they're not going to work.
		And more likely, an enemy can simply get decoys like aluminum balloons.
		Chaff.
		During World War II, bomber pilots would drop tinfoil in the air, and it would confuse ground radar.
		Ground radar would not see an airplane.
		It would see a cloud, a cloud of tinfoil, and they didn't know where the bomber was in this cloud of tinfoil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying no matter what, enough would get through?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		You can confuse ground radar by putting chaff or tinfoil, mylar balloons inside the nose cone, and that would be used to pierce any Star Wars system by fooling it, you see?
		And that's why I think it's...
		Remember the French before World War II?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Built this huge barrier between Germany and France, thinking that would protect them against Germany.
		The Chinese built the Great Wall of China to protect the Mongols.
		But what actually happened?
		The Mongols simply bribed the guards of the Great Wall of China and went right over the Great Wall of China by bribing the guards.
		What did the Germans do?
		They fired over the Maginot Line and went around the Maginot Line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we're destabilizing our own future.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's right.
		I think we've spent enough on nuclear weapons.
		I think now's the time to enrich our schools, to create this age of Aquarius that we could have if we rise to become a Taiwan civilization, rather than reaching for Cold War weaponry thinking that we're going to fight a nuclear war against North Korea, which I think is silly.
		The North Koreans can barely feed themselves.
		Why don't we have to fight this war with North Korea?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm not so worried about the North Koreans.
		The South Koreans should be worried about the North Koreans.
		But I am a little concerned about the old Soviet Union and China, and we should be concerned.
		But not to the degree you say that we should build something that would provide what you consider to be a false protection.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		A false protection?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Plus, it frightens the enemy, because if you have a bulletproof vest and you're in a gunfight and you have a bulletproof vest, the enemy gunfighter freaks out, knowing that his gun is useless, right?
unidentified		Well, he shoots you in the head is what he does.
		We'll be right back.
		Stay right where you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Cathu is my guest.
unidentified		We're going to open the phone line shortly for Dr. Cathu.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is coast to coast, AM in the night drive.
unidentified		This is coast to coast, AM in the night drive.
		I can fight against the monster.
		So I can start to believe it.
		More will never come.
		Oh, yeah.
		I'm never like it.
		I'm like feeling something so I'll make myself believe in this life.
		I'll never tell the spirit of this.
		Wanna take a ride?
		Well, call our bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1242.
		The Royal Card line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		And to recharge on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-09703.
		Happy to be all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		My guest is one of our nation's premier theoretical physicists.
		Co-founder of the String Theory, he is Dr. Michiu Kaku.
unidentified		And we're talking about really who that is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll get back to him in a moment.
unidentified		It's kind of a neat box that I just got.
		That's what a David's taking.
		I don't know what David's taking is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's a fellow who wrote something called Sunstroke.
		And he writes, Dear Mr. Bell, check this out, folks.
		You have to print a certain feature film titled Sunstroke, starring Stephen Sagal.
		Without you, this film would not be going into production as fall.
		Producer Jeffrey Newman, Stephen, and especially myself wish to thank you so very much.
		We greatly respect your wish to return into private life, but somehow suspect it's not over till the fat lady sinks.
unidentified		Not to let anything fall between them, but see you at the film's premiere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you again for giving me the time of my life as a guest on your program and for everything.
		Best wishes, David Kagan.
		Now, that's really something.
		I did make a couple of behind-the-scenes moves, and I talked to Stephen Seagal, but I didn't realize that this had coalesced.
		So, there's a little peek at the future, folks.
		The End And by the way, I didn't really do much at all.
		I had David Kagan on as a guest.
		I talked briefly with Stephen Seagal.
		I just put a couple of people together, and that's all.
		And I had no idea it coalesced into this, so I'm happy about that.
		Professor, Speaking of sunstrokes, there was some fairly recent news that suns, stars, if you will, just like ours, occasionally really go berserk for no discernible reason, and they flare out and destroy all the planets around them.
		I was a little worried about that, and that would be a sunstroke, all right.
		Could that happen to us?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Possibly.
		Our sun is a rather ordinary yellow main-sequence hydrogen-burning star.
		Yeah.
		Meaning that it'll last for about five more billion years before it starts to become very erratic and becomes a red giant.
		It'll expand and eat up the Earth.
		So the Bible says from dust to dust, ashes to ashes.
		Physicists say from stardust we came and stardust will go back.
		We're going to go back into the sun in about five billion years.
		So the Earth will end in fire rather than in ice.
		Now, however, I should also point out, and this was announced just a few weeks ago, the galaxy, the Milky Way galaxy, is on a collision course with Andromeda, our nearest neighbor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And we could collide in 3 billion years.
		So even before our sun dies, we could collide with our nearest galaxy, which, by the way, is visible almost with binoculars.
		Look in the direction of the constellation Andromeda, and you'll see a smudge, which is our nearest galaxy, our nearest neighbor, about 2 million light years from Earth.
		We are headed towards that galaxy, and it's not going to be pretty.
		It's going to be a hostile takeover.
		The Andromeda Galaxy is going to eat up our Milky Way galaxy because it's bigger.
		The Andromeda Galaxy is much bigger than our galaxy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But still, that's billions of years away.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Billions of years away, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No problem there.
		But they found that even suns like ours that seem so normal and stable suddenly erupt in some unimaginable way.
		Do you believe that to be true?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Possible, but I think our sun tends to be on the small side and probably is going to be relatively stable.
		We have computer programs that try to simulate our sun, and it shows that it's going to live a pretty quiet life until it erupts into a red giant, then becomes a white dwarf, and will probably die as a burnt-out dwarf star.
		So the atoms of our body will eventually go back into the sun, and our sun will probably die as a burnt-out cinder.
		However, neighboring stars could be unstable, like Betelgeuse.
		Betelgeuse is not a movie starring Michael Keaton.
		Betelgeuse is a star in the constellation Orion.
		It is a red giant, and it is apparently unstable.
		And when that star rips, when that star undergoes supernova, watch out.
		It's not going to kill the Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		But it could create some disturbances on the Earth because it's the nearest red giant that we're aware of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of disturbance would you imagine?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, the X-rays will hit our atmosphere and cause an electromagnetic pulse.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		You know, hydrogen bombs do this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And that could wipe out electronics, communications, your CD, your toaster, and the internet could be paralyzed.
		Satellites could be blinded by this burst of radiation.
		And if a supernova is really close, it could kill life on Earth.
		We once thought that the dinosaurs were killed off by a supernova.
		Now we believe it was an asteroid or comet that hit Mexico 65 million years ago, the Yucatan of Mexico.
		But we used to think it was a supernova that wiped out the dinosaurs.
		So that's a very unstable star.
		And as I mentioned, Betelgeuse is unstable and probably will undergo supernova, not in our lifetime, of course.
		But when it does happen, it could be a little bit dangerous.
		It's not very close, but it's close enough to cause trouble with communications, cause weather changes, and a burst of X-rays could kill a lot of life forms on the Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Earth has received some immense blasts that they've documented actually fairly recently.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this was just announced this week.
		We now realize that a gigantic asteroid or whatever hit Australia, and that may have wiped out the trilobites.
		Really?
		So, yeah, we've now documented five humongous impact craters on the Earth, one in South Africa, one in Mexico, one in Australia.
		And the one in Australia took place roughly 200 million years ago, and that probably wiped out the trilobites.
		These small three looks like snails that have three chambers, wiped them out, and they were the first dominant species of life on the Earth about 200 or so million years ago.
		So these meteorite impacts are more common than we think they are, and they probably have wiped out 90% of all life forms during the age of trilobites, knocked out the dinosaurs 65 million years ago.
		And, you know, the only dinosaur left from that era are probably birds.
		Birds are probably descendants from dinosaurs.
		And our ancestors used to be eaten up for breakfast or for a snack by dinosaurs.
		That's why our ancestors never got it very big.
		So I have no problems eating chicken at night, knowing that if that comet or meteor had missed Mexico, that dinosaur would be eating me rather than me eating that dinosaur at dinner time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then you'd only be a snack.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		I'd only be a snack for that dinosaur, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		One quick facts question, and then I want to go to phones here.
		It's kind of an interesting question.
		Simple, it seems, but maybe not.
		What is the underlying physics principle which makes certain solid materials, such as glass, for example, transparent to light?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		The reason why glass is transparent is because the glass can't absorb light.
		But when they re-emit light, it's right behind the light.
		So they can absorb the light beam and then re-emit it with a light behind the light.
		That's right.
		That's why the speed of light in glass is the speed of light divided by the index of the press.
		1.2, 1.3.
		So the speed of light in glass is slower than the speed of light in a vacuum.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It causes a time delay.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		It absorbs light and then re-emits light of the same nature a fraction of a second later.
		And by delay time, it causes the light to bend in glass.
		That's why it's possible to go faster than the speed of light in glass.
		You can go faster than the speed of light in glass and create a shockwave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
		I thought you just said.
		I can understand the concept of glass or water would slow the speed of light.
unidentified		What do you mean?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you cannot go faster than light in a vacuum.
unidentified		And when light goes between atoms and circles, you can try to work together.
unidentified		But when you get the nanos of glass, it slows down.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		There's a time delay with that molecule.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And then it then goes, as it feels like, to the next molecule of glass.
unidentified		So the speed of light in glass is faster.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		It's possible to go faster than the speed of light in glass.
unidentified		It's possible to go faster than the speed of light in glass.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That creates a...
unidentified		Right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		On airplanes, they go faster than the speed of sound.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Here's a sonic boom.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		You can create a light bulb, not a sonic boom, but an optical boom.
unidentified		And one of the...
		And one of the...
		And one of the things that goes on to glass for radiation...
		Some people talk about blowing in the dark.
		The reason why you blow in the dark after nuclear war...
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Is because your radiation is traveling faster than the speed of light in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, again, we're talking about slower would...
		Would it produce a red shift or would it produce a blue shift?
		Yes.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, not quite.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		The blue in the process means that the speed of light in the glass is lower than that in a vacuum.
unidentified		And you can exceed that glucose guy sitting on the suburb of the terrace ball.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And that creates a shockwave.
		And that's why radiation is colorful.
		That's why you had that blue glow.
		Have you ever been by nuclear power plants when you see the nuclear fuel rods on the bottom?
		Yeah, well, if you ever do that, it's very eerie because the rods glow blue.
		There's a blue glow that emerges from them.
		And that blue glow, by the way, is a glow that takes place in nuclear accidents.
		There was an accident in Japan several months ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Big one?
unidentified		Yeah.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Where workers mixed too much uranium and there was a small nuclear detonation that went off in the man's face.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		This has happened in America about seven times.
		Seven Americans have been killed with these kinds of accidents.
		Each time you have a supercriticality accident, you basically have a small atomic bomb going off in your face, and you have this blue glow.
		This blue glow is Serenkov radiation.
		Neutrons are traveling faster than the speed of light in air, which is slower than the speed of light in a vacuum, which nothing can exceed.
		And yes, these are called criticality accidents.
		These have been pretty much secret.
		Most Americans don't know this, but Americans have been blown apart in nuclear accidents and killed, see nuclear accidents in the United States, mainly by this blue glow, by the Seren-Card radiation, the neutrons.
		And it happened in Japan.
		And one worker died, and another worker probably will die in Japan because he mixed too much uranium.
		Critical mass was attained right near his face.
		And there was this blue glow as neutrons burst out of this container.
		And like I said, at Los Alamos, several workers have been blown apart this way.
		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a horrible way to die.
		I remember watching a movie about the Manhattan Project.
		And apparently, and that's one thing they have admitted, during that project, apparently, they had two balls of uranium.
		Yeah, and they got too close together.
		And I remember the fellow who made the mistake and got them close together, coffee spilled or something happened.
		Maybe that was just drama in the movie.
		But they got too close together.
		And suddenly there was this giant emission.
		And they quickly did the calculations.
		And the fellow who, of course, was right in front of it said, I'm dead.
		And he was.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very shortly.
		And then everybody else was basically okay.
		But he was dead as a doornail.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Two people were died that way.
		Harry Daglian, in 1943, right after the Nagasaki bomb, was the first American to be blown apart by having a nuclear detonation happen in his face.
		He died one month after Nagasaki, and he tripped and fell, and he tripped on tungsten carbide, which reflected the neutrons, and there was this blue glow as a burst of neutrons ripped through his body, and he pretty much disintegrated in the Los Alamos hospital.
		It took about two weeks for him to die.
		And then a few months later, in 1946, just in the beginning of the next year, Lewis Slaughter, a Canadian physicist, had two hemispheres of plutonium on a tabletop.
		And he had a screwdriver.
		And with a screwdriver, he could bring these two hemispheres of plutonium closer and closer and closer together.
		If you bring them too close, then you get a nuclear detonation.
		Well, one day, he slipped.
		There was a brilliant cup that he was turning, and it slipped.
		Too many neutrons were reflected.
		And in that instant of time, he realized there was going to be an explosion.
		So he lunged forward with his bare hands, ripped apart the plutonium, and he took the full blast in his stomach.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And he also died in the Los Alamos hospital.
		And horrible autopsy pictures have been published in the Annals of Medicine, and huge blisters all over their bodies took place.
		So, again, this is caused by Serenkov radiation, by the mechanism of going faster than the speed of light in air, creating a blue glow, and these neutrons will rip through your body, and you don't feel a thing.
		Evolution has not given us any pain sensors for radiation, so we don't feel a thing.
		But we slowly disintegrate as all our body cells fall apart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You believe in evolution, don't you?
		Yeah.
		So that if there was a full nuclear exchange, would you think there might be an evolutionary change that would allow us to feel pain under such conditions?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		It would be very slow, and billions would die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Only a handful, the smallest handful of humans would survive in order to then propagate a new species of humans that could feel radiation.
		They would say, ouch, if they got too close to uranium or if they got too close to nuclear fallout.
		However, our sensors, our nerve sensors, are totally incapable of feeling irradiation.
		So we could get hit with a lethal amount of radiation and not feel a thing.
		These people were hit with 2,000 to 5,000 rads of radiation.
		500 rads is enough to kill you.
		These people were hit with up to 10 times the lethal amount of radiation, and they didn't feel a thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they virtually disintegrated?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Slowly, they turned to, large parts of their body turned to carbon, charred carbon.
		And like I said, this happened just a few months ago in Japan at the Tokaimura nuclear site in Japan.
		It happened again.
		Nuclear workers were careless, this time with enriched uranium.
		They had it in a cleaning bucket, for God's sake.
		They poured it, and it reached critical mass.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A cleaning bucket?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's incredible how lax security was at this plant.
		And same things happen at our plants, too.
		You know, we've had criticality accidents at Oak Ridge in Tennessee when there's too much plutonium in the walls.
		There's, you know, pipes of plutonium waste in the walls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And we've had criticality take place in the walls containing plutonium.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've never heard this.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we physicists know it, because, of course, we have all the documents.
		I have many of the documents of these accidents.
		And it's outrageous reading the history of how careless we physicists have been handling plutonium, letting it go critical in the walls.
		Again, seven Americans have been killed this way, and there have been...
		It's known to physicists, but you really have to dig.
		You have to get access to classified material, or material that's semi-classified, and then you read the real history of the dangers of nuclear energy and the people that died, you know, harnessing the power of the atom.
		It's like writing the tail of a tiger.
		You know, it's very powerful, and if you make a mistake, it'll bite you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think in that movie that I saw about the bomb, they said they were tickling the tail of the tiger.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's tickling the dragon's tail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		What they would do is they would get these two hemispheres of plutonium, bring them together very slowly, and then Geiger-Counter needles would go off scale, and then he would then bring them apart.
		And he would tickle the dragon's tail by bringing them together gently and getting them closer and closer and closer together until, you know, the Geiger-Contin needle went off scale.
		Well, sometimes the dragon won.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, sometimes you go a little too far, the dragon wins, and you lose.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And you lose, and you're sent to the hospital, and you don't feel a thing, but you slowly disintegrate over the next two weeks.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		It's a very sad process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I suppose there was no help for those people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Moreover, no doubt, the scientists wanted to study what would happen to them.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Just think about it.
		One month after Nagasaki was exploded, here was a controlled experiment.
		No blast, no heat.
		It was just pure neutrons that ripped through Harry Daglian and Lewis Slotted in 1945 to 1946.
		A controlled experiment.
		They were hit with roughly 2,000 to 5,000 rads of radiation.
		again, about, you know, five to ten times the amount necessary to kill you.
unidentified		And basically...
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		You can watch them slowly charring, blistering, charring.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		They could watch this happen in slow motion, which was incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, we're at the top of another hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're good for one more hour, right?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Right, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, stay right where you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And in your market.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If not, then from the high desert, goodbye.
unidentified		I'm just thinking, it's like the old one that I can hear.
		800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nigh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is such sweet sorrow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
unidentified		My guest is one of our nation's greatest theoretical physicists, Dr. Michio Katu, from New York City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we've got a link to his brand new website on ours.
unidentified		So I suggest you check it out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For all the questions that we're not able to cover here, you just might find the answers there.
unidentified		And he has a wonderful, wonderful book called Visions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's my favorite.
		Visions really is my favorite.
		It's one you've got to pick up, and it's available nationwide, Amazon.com, all the usual places.
		Pick it up.
		Check it out.
		Read it.
		All right, I meant to fling the phone lines open about a half hour ago, but some of that information was absolutely too riveting to let go.
		But we'll do it now.
		Dr. Kaku, are you ready?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here they come.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Michio Kaku.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
		Good morning, Dr. Kaku.
		I have two questions for you.
		Let me ask them both at the same time, please, Art, and then I'll hang up and listen on the radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go.
unidentified		Question number one, regarding a type 1 civilization.
		Question number two, regarding the map, the microwave angiotropy probe spacecraft.
		Number one, question number one, since George W. Bush is in favor of oil and is in favor of Star Wars, and Al Gore is against Star Wars, and also as an environmentalist, wrote the book, Earth in the Balance in 1970.
		From a type 1 civilization point of view, wouldn't it be prudent to vote for Al Gore over George W. Bush?
		Question number two.
		Happening almost at the same day as Election Day, November 6th or 7th, will be the launch of the microwave angios anisotropy probe.
		Question number two, would you discuss in detail the microwave anisotropy probe spacecraft?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		There they are.
		The first one is an obviously politically charged question.
		It might be noted here that though Gore, earlier in his political life, seemed very environmentally friendly, in the campaign, it hasn't been quite the same.
		And there are a lot of us who feel it won't make a whole lot of difference one way or the other.
		But he's right about what was said.
unidentified		And George Bush is an oil guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much is it on my foot?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me take it really quick.
		If you look at Al Gore's position, they are very close to Clinton's position.
		And Clinton, unfortunately, is for the Star Wars program.
		It took a conservative like Nixon to go to China, and it took a liberal like Clinton to give us Star Wars.
		Reagan could not push Star Wars on the American public, but Clinton is trying to do it.
		A Democrat, a Trojan horse, basically, is trying to give us the Star Wars program.
		So personally, I think people should vote their conscience, but really, we have to put a certain fire under the butts of some of these politicians to make them take correct positions on building a peaceful, planetary, prosperous pipeline civilization rather than trying to build walls around ourselves like the Chinese do with their great wall and the French did with their Maginot line, walls that crumble when push comes to shove.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it sounds then like you might like to build an oil fire under George's butt.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right, because we have to make the transition away from fossil fuels.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		We have to go to hybrid electric cars.
unidentified		we have to go more toward renewable sources of energy because we're not going to run out anyway.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And in 20 years, we're going to have a shift now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're going to have to break it.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And road prices begin to skyrocket.
unidentified		The other question is the background.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		We talked about quasars.
		Quasars are the farthest objects you can see with a telescope.
		They go back 12 billion years into the past.
		But then the question is, what lies beyond the quasars?
		What lies beyond the quasars, believe it or not, is the Big Bang.
		It lies beyond the quasars.
		Now, you can't see it because your eyes are the eyes of an animal, basically the eyes of an ape.
		And we cannot see microwaves.
		Animals cannot see microwaves.
		But that's the color of the Big Bang.
		The Big Bang's color went from ultraviolet to the optical, and now it's very cold, about three degrees in temperature, which corresponds to microwave.
		And that's why we're sending up microwave satellites out there now to take brilliant photographs of the remnants of the Big Bang Europe.
		The microwave here dates from 300,000 years after the Big Bang.
		30 photographs of the Big Bang 300,000 years after the incident of creation.
		And there are irregularities in the cosmic explosion.
		These irregularities eventually gave rise to galaxies and gave rise to the clumpiness that we see in the universe around us.
		So one of the reasons why the universe is so clumpy, why we have galaxies and galactic clusters, is because there was an anisotropy, an unevenness in the original Big Bang, which then gradually expanded to give us the galaxies of today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then this satellite will be able to virtually look beyond these outward markers, these quasars, and actually see the radiation from the Bang itself?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		You go far enough into the past, and you actually are staring at creation.
		So ironically enough, for the Kansas State School Board that does not believe in evolution or the Big Bang theory, every night the Big Bang comes out, except, of course, it takes microwave eyes to see it.
		And that's why we sent up the COBE satellite, which was a cosmic background microwave satellite, which took a photograph of, quote, the face of God.
		Now, the media called it the face of God.
		It was a circular photograph with clumpiness in it.
		It's not really the face of God at all.
		It's the face of the Big Bang.
		We had actually photographed the Big Bang 300,000 years after the initial explosion.
		And it's a gorgeous photograph.
		It's published in all astronomy books now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've seen it.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And we're now setting up the next generation of satellites who take fine photographs of this microwave background, which is the echo of the Big Bang.
		It's the aftermath of the Big Bang, 300,000 years after the instant of creation.
		And it comes out every night.
		You know, it's beyond the quasars, basically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, could there be anything other than radiation detectable past that?
		In other words, if we have the ability, could we someday detect anything at all?
		I mean, it goes back to the child's question of what's past the end.
		What's past the end?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		What lies beyond the microwave radiation is neutrinos.
		Neutrinos would take you, I think, about a minute after the Big Bang.
		You could actually photograph what the Big Bang looked like about a minute after creation.
		But neutrino telescopes do not exist.
		You would have to be probably a very mature type 1 civilization to create a neutrino telescope.
		If you had a neutrino telescope, you could look right inside the Earth.
		You could see earthquakes as they are forming.
		You could see continental drift take place.
		Neutrinos go right through the earth.
		And neutrinos would allow you to penetrate the Big Bang to just about a minute or so after the Big Bang itself.
		And then beyond that, you would have to, of course, go to string theory.
		You would have to go to unified field theory to tell you what happened before the Big Bang.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Dr. Mitchio Kaku.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Arthur.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I'm sorry.
		I got caught off guard.
		Anyway, Dr. Kaku, two real quick, one long question and then one for an inch paper.
		As far as a nuclear detonation, the internet and other such things going down, what would it take to bring them back up quickly to begin putting the world back together?
		And for your inch of paper, matter times infinity squared?
		Well, not really thinking that.
		Okay.
		You know, is that do you think that is really a practical idea?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You did talk about why the internet was formed in the first place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In a full nuclear exchange, would it really get back up, Doctor?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, it depends on how much damage had taken place.
		If the exchange was only on the level of several megatons, in other words, only a few major cities got wiped out, then you would have a nuclear autumn or nuclear fall.
		Temperatures would drop, but civilization would recover perhaps in a few decades.
		If you're talking more than 100 megatons, and of course Russia and America have thousands of megatons worth of nuclear bomb, then you are talking about literally sending humanity perhaps 100, 200 years into the past, back to, let's say, at the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, where humans would...
		Bill Gibson?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		People reverted back to savagery, trying to find any amount of oil to keep their rotting machines going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There'd be little sefetoms, I suppose.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Strong men would emerge that ruled with the force of their oil-fired contraption.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kind of like Somalia, actually.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Sort of like that.
		It would revert back to a very low level of savagery with high-tech weapons.
		And that's what, you know, World War II was about, and that's what the world would look like after a nuclear exchange.
		It would take, you know, a century, several centuries, to get back up to the level of modern civilization.
		And then, of course, if it was a complete nuclear exchange, we would have nuclear winter.
		Temperatures would drop 50 to 70 degrees.
		Crops would fail.
		And remember, the dinosaurs were probably wiped out in just one year.
		It probably took no more than a year for these dinosaurs to get wiped out when the comet or meteor hit the Yucatan of Mexico 65 million years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would some be able to go underground in vast shelters that exist?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's what the few pockets of humanity would have to do in case of a major exchange.
		They would have to go underground.
		They would have to keep warm.
		They would have to build machines that could survive underground so that the radiation above ground would gradually decay with time.
		But foodstocks would run out very quickly.
		And so humanity would revert to a very low level of barbarism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In such a condition, how long would, after a full exchange, how long would humans have to remain below ground before they could come to the surface again?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, most of the radiation would damp out in a few weeks, most of it.
		However, the residual will be there for thousands of years, irradiating people, raising the mutation rate.
		Monsters would be formed.
		You know, humans that look like humans would be treasured because of the fact that there are so many humans that don't look like humans because of the low level of background radiation that's everywhere.
		And the human fetus is quite sensitive to radiation as we know it.
		And so there would be very high mutation rate that takes place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The living envying the dead.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And so that's why I believe that we should not allow the bomb to proliferate, you know, and the bomb has now proliferated to Asia, to between, you know, Pakistan and India.
		And that's a frightening prospect because between them, they probably have on the order of 100 atomic bombs between them, between each other.
		India with roughly maybe 60 to 80 atomic bombs, and Pakistan with probably about 20 atomic bombs.
		And that's a lot of bombs.
		And that's why I think we really have to force a comprehensive test ban treaty and a nuclear non-proliferation treaty to make sure the bomb doesn't proliferate to other unstable areas of the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Whether that can happen, I don't know.
		I'm a half-empty glass of water guy.
		Either the Rockies are on the air with Professor Cochin.
unidentified		Dr. Cocho.
		You're one of my favorite artists.
		You said that it would be destabilized.
		I'm sure.
		Yes.
		The defense has come down there.
		I don't know.
		I don't know.
		What do you think about enemies?
		Should we be delayed?
		Because we invent ourselves or attack.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, that's a very, very good question.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's say hypothetically that Russia invented a blue-proof weapon.
		How would we react?
		We would freak out.
		We would freak out of our pants.
		Because all our nuclear weapons were useless.
		And we could beat ourselves with all the nuclear bombs we have in our arsenal because the Russians are incredible to prove that they're invulnerable from the United States.
unidentified		Now think about how the Russians are feeling today.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		The Russians have a crown of nuclear arsenal.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And the United States is reaching forth, which I think will have to continue.
unidentified		But really, it is reaching for us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are the Russians going to do that?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		They're going to feel that all the weapons they've done with their national treasure, all the billions of people they've sacrificed, are for nothing.
unidentified		Because they cannot penetrate or possess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what would the Russians do?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		They would build steel bombs and put decoys on them to fill and penetrate the field.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		We could do the same thing too, right?
unidentified		Or even more they would bring it to the end, right?
unidentified		If you knew that you were building a balloon, before you put it on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, right?
unidentified		Because once you put it on, then your weapons are using it.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		So you've got to use them before you use them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, there is one logical argument for the building of something that would top a ballistic missile.
		And the one logical argument is that an all-out nuclear exchange is not at all likely.
		And the argument is that what is likely is perhaps a single missile, perhaps a mistake, perhaps, who knows, a terrorist managing to get some sort of ballistic thing together with a warhead.
		And in that case, you could take out one or maybe two.
		Obviously not hundreds or thousands, but one or two in a limited situation you could take out.
		That's what the argument is.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's say you have a terrorist with two or three atomic bombs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Are they going to fire them at the United States and have them shot down?
		Or are they going to put them on a cruise mission to fly underneath ground radar to hit San Francisco?
		Or you would just put them on a tugboat and send them into San Francisco Harbor.
		Or you disguise it as heroin and ship it through Texas.
		I mean, we can't stop heroin from coming into our borders.
		What chance are we going to have of stopping a homemade atomic bomb from coming in our borders and being dropped into our sewer system?
		And someone says, well, you know, give me a million dollars or else I'll blow up El Paso, Texas and their sewer system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ashley, it's surprising it hasn't happened yet.
unidentified		Right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's why I think that a terrorist is not going to go up against a Star Wars system.
		A Star Wars system is useless against a terrorist that will simply use the United States mail to mail a hydrogen bomb or an atomic bomb into the country.
		So that's why he thinks that we're going to be spending all this money when the terrorist themselves are not stupid.
		They're not dumb.
		They know that they're going to be up against this gigantic shield, which may not work.
		So they're going to either send it on a cruise missile below ground radar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe UPS.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Or, just like what heroin, you know, we can't stop heroin from coming into our borders.
		And that's why I think that we should negotiate with these countries to have them dismantle their nuclear installations.
		If they dismantle the nuclear installations, it's very easy to verify by satellite.
		And therefore, it would be impossible for them to have an infrastructure to build these nuclear weapons because they've dismantled it by treaty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And our nuclear weapons?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that we should cut them.
		You know, the Russians are now saying that they're going to science SALT II, and they're going to cut their nuclear arsenals because, of course, they can't maintain them anymore.
		They're crumbling, they're rotting, they're falling apart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually dangerous, aren't they?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And they're dangerous.
		A loose nuke is the worst thing possible.
		And there have been several hundred incidences now in Germany and Czech Republic of people selling nuclear materials on the black market.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't want to hear that.
		Doctor, hold on.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		Several hundred incidents?
		Now, Gene, I haven't read about that.
unidentified		Have you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Michiu Kaku is here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast a.m.
		Like a train raging in the night.
		Oh, my God.
		Everybody is looking for something.
		Some of them want to use you.
		Some of them are.
		Disney Prince M coast to coast lost tower.
		Lost our news radio, W. Mother, planned.
		Way WC1222.
		The boil card line is open at 1775-727-1295.
		And to call out on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coaster Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I thought maybe there's the last piece of the piece of umber music, the greatest piece ever sung.
unidentified		I see friends in your sea.
		They're really saying I love them.
		I hear where you cry.
		I've watched them grow.
		They're like much more than I've ever known.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you're talking about the possible extinction of the human race, it's such a great contrarian piece of music.
		Good morning, everybody.
		Dr. Michio Kaku is here.
		As we approach the end, I'm Hart Bell.
		right where you are.
		All right, once again, Dr. Michio Kaku From New York City, which, by the way, seems to me would be a prime terrorist target, probably that or Washington, D.C. And I bet you've thought about that, haven't you?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I definitely have thought about that.
		We are ground zero.
		I'm speaking from Manhattan right now, and when the World Trade Center bomb went off, I could actually see a lot of the flames and the smoke coming out of the World Trade Center from my apartment house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that must have been eerie.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		I couldn't get to my house because there were so many ambulances and fire trucks blocking traffic.
		I had to walk home because no taxi could penetrate this thicket of roadblocks and police cars and ambulances and what have you.
		So that's one of the, you know, byproducts of living in Manhattan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If Manhattan were ever more or less vaporized by somebody's suitcase, would the United States probably survive it?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		The United States would survive it.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		We would, of course, have a huge dent in our gross domestic product here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We sure would.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		The national headquarters of many of our corporations are here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		But in the movie Fail Safe, we knew it was the Russians.
		The Russians knew it was us.
		In the case of a terrorist, they may simply bomb a city and not even reveal who they are.
		And that'd be very frustrating.
		Here would be this gigantic giant flailing away at nothing, not understanding who did that bomb threat.
		And that's another reason why I think that we should not concentrate efforts on an anti-ballistic missile system, but to concentrate efforts on the control of nuclear materials and nuclear infrastructure to make sure that nobody can start to develop these things.
		You know, atomic bombs are hard to build.
		They're harder to build and you realize it takes a huge infrastructure to build these things.
		And this infrastructure is clearly visible by satellite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could you build one?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		If I had the materials, yeah, I could probably do a pretty decent job.
		It wouldn't be that hard.
		A lot of the designs, the principles have been published already.
		It would require delicate machining and microcapacitors and electronics to synchronize the detonation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you have friends.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		It wouldn't take that much, really, for a physicist to put one together.
		Now, a hydrogen bomb is more difficult.
		A hydrogen bomb, you really have to have supercomputers do the calculations for a hydrogen bomb.
		But an atomic bomb, like I said, accidentally, they've gone off spontaneously in accidents.
unidentified		Sure.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Small ones, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if ultimately nations don't want to cooperate, and this is a hard question, should they be made deals they can't refuse?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think first they should be made deals that they can refuse and won't because it's in their self-interest.
		Most nations of the world have signed on to a comprehensive, a nuclear non-proliferation treaty.
		Many nations have stated they would sign a comprehensive test ban treaty, but it is our own Senate.
		It is our own U.S. Senate that is the major stumbling block to a comprehensive test ban treaty.
		And, you know, who has the most to lose if the bomb proliferates?
		We're a sitting duck.
		The United States is a sitting duck.
		We have so many primary targets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		It's in our interest to limit the proliferation of these weapons because we're the most vulnerable, you know, to this kind of attack.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, take India and Pakistan, the countries you mentioned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think they would be receptive now to a comprehensive ban?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, initially, India has been a big stumbling block.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Even though most people remember Gandhi, Hindu nationalism has pretty much taken over Indian politics, and they want to beat their chest and call for a Hindu bomb.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Precisely.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And the Pakistanis want a Muslim bomb.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Precisely.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And pretty soon, everyone's going to have their own personal bomb, a Scientology bomb or a Buddhist bomb.
		And where does it end?
		You know, it ends, of course, in a nuclear accident, or perhaps by design or by anger.
		And that's the fear, you know, that one little match could set this off.
		And we're still in the early stages of nuclear proliferation, but you see it happening now.
		You know, Pakistan is a very poor nation.
		It can barely feed itself, right?
		And they have atomic bombs, perhaps on the order of, you know, 20 to 30 atomic bombs.
		And that's not very comforting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think, doctor, that if an accident would occur, horrible as it would be, it would move the world toward a true comprehensive ban?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		It may take that.
		You know, we humans really don't move off our butt until a disaster happens.
		And then we say, my God, it was obvious.
		Why didn't we do anything beforehand?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		And people often say that humanity is like a balloon looking for a needle, right?
		It's just waiting to burst.
		Except the balloon says, nah, it can't happen.
		I mean, you know, I've been inflating for a long time.
		There's no needles out there.
		And the bubble could burst.
		It doesn't take much to deflate, you know, all our Pollyanna-ish optimism about maintaining nuclear weapons without an accident.
		I think sooner or later it may take a big accident with people dying, unfortunately, to shock, to shock the world, to initiate the process of disarmament.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's quite a thing to think about.
		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Kaku.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Dr. Kaku, yes.
		This is Reverend Mother Gabriella from the big island of Hawaii.
		And first off, first question, do you have a regular mail address for computer-deprived people that don't have computers?
		No.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can write the City University of New York, New York, New York, 10031.
unidentified		There's only one City University of New York in 10031.
		And this is the me Physics Department, SUNY, New York, New York, 10031.
		Okay, thank you.
		Now my real question.
		I imagine you've read Emmanuel Velikovsky.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		I've perused his work.
unidentified		And his his theories about the that there were global catastrophes in historical times like 1500 to 1600 BC, 700 B.C., and that these were caused by extraterrestrial agents, and he identifies them as Mars and Venus.
		And this seems to dovetail into Dr. Tom Van Flandren's exploding planet hypothesis about Mars.
		Do you have any thoughts on that?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, in that work, he thought that Venus was a comet that stabilized in its orbit around the Sun.
		But a comet is nothing but a dirty snowball.
		They're only about 20 miles across.
		Venus is the size of the Earth.
		It's literally a twin of the Earth.
		By using computers, we can backtrack the motion of the planets for thousands of years.
		Newton's laws of motion are that accurate.
		And if you backtrack the motion of the planets for thousands of years, you don't find them bumping into each other.
		You don't find them causing Noah's flood.
		You don't find them causing the parting of the Red Sea and so on and so forth.
		Now, I think, however, the legacy of when worlds collide is interesting because we are now more receptive to asteroid impacts and devastations on geologic time scales, where asteroids, we think, did, in fact, kill off the dinosaurs and kill off the chilobites as well.
		So I think one of the legacies of that work is that we're more accepting now of astronomical explanations for geologic catastrophes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, shouldn't we go to Mars, try and figure out what happened to Mars?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It used to have water and air.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		They, in fact, were tropical before the Earth became tropical.
		We were quite hot when Mars cooled down to be tropical.
		And that's why some people think that DNA started first on Mars because Mars was the first to have temperate, warm climates with lots of oceans and ideal conditions of life when the Earth was still too hot to have life.
		And if you look at the record, life starts very quickly after the Earth has a stable ocean and the age of meteors ends.
		Once meteor impacts no longer hit the Earth and dry up the oceans and boil them off, DNA can start.
		And DNA starts very soon after the age of meteors ends on the Earth.
		And so some people like Fred Hoyle, astronomer Fred Hoyle, have stated that it's too good to be true.
		You know, DNA just pops into existence as soon as the age of meteor ends.
		That's why some people would lean toward a panspermia theory of some sort.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That we were seeded.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Seeded by Mars, who knows for sure.
		I keep an open mind about these things.
		I mean, who knows?
		We need more data, really.
		We have to send more robots to Mars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was about to ask you, Dan Golden recently headed us to said that he now would like to send men to Mars within 10 years.
		How do you feel about that?
		Too much money?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		It's too much money and it's too dangerous.
		You know, when Dan Quayle first proposed that, estimates were $500 billion.
		That's $500 billion.
		That's more than the gross domestic product of many nations put together.
		And it's dangerous.
		You know, humans in outer space after one year lose so much bone mass and muscle mass that we can barely crawl out of our space capsule.
		When the Russians come out of the Mir space station after a year in orbit, they're like babies.
		They can barely crawl out of their space capsule.
		A mission to Mars takes two years.
		By the time they reach Mars, they may be weaklings.
		They may have suffered enormous damage due to bone loss and muscle mass loss and cosmic rays and micrometeorites.
		It's dangerous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But gee, that would suggest space travel just isn't for us.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		I think we should wait.
		Wait for the price of space travel to come down.
		In my book, Visions, I have a whole chapter on space travel in the next 100 years.
		The next generation of spacecraft are the reusable launch vehicles that use carbon resins and very lightweight materials.
		And the cost of space travel will go down by a factor of 10.
		It costs about $800 million for every space shuttle mission.
		Imagine John Glenn made out of solid gold.
		Imagine the space shuttle made out of solid gold.
		That's the cost of a space shuttle mission.
		These are enormously expensive things, okay?
		And once we have reusable carbon resin holes for these reusable launch vehicles, then the cost will go down by a factor of 10.
		So it won't be as expensive as gold ounce for ounce.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so we've got good spacecraft, but what about the wasting away of humans who spend a lot of time in space?
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's going to be a big problem.
		And the fuel is only enough for a one-way trip.
		And that's why some people have said that they should go to Mars and create rocket fuel on the way back.
		That would give them an incentive to set up a factory on Mars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of incentives.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		There's no fuel to come back.
		It's only a one-way trip.
		I think there are too many bugs.
		And all we have to do is wait a few more decades until the technology of reusable launch vehicles kicks in, before we have more dependable rockets that don't blow up on the launch pad.
		You know, 1% of our booster rockets blow up on launch.
		You know that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		True, yes.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		1%.
		When the Challenger blew up, some people said, well, right on schedule.
		The American public doesn't understand this.
		Would you ride in a rocket ship that has a 1% chance of blowing you to Kingdom Come?
		I wouldn't do it.
		You've got to be an Air Force pilot, a former Air Force pilot to have courage to go on the space shuttle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're sitting on a potential bomb.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, you know, two million pounds of thrust and send you to Kingdom Come.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		So that's why I say, wait.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait, all right.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Send robots instead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First time calling our line, you're on the air with Dr. Kaku.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Am I on the air?
		You are.
		Wow, dream come true, man.
		I can't believe it.
		This is Sean calling from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Sean.
unidentified		Hi.
		I know you guys aren't really talking about this anymore.
		It's more on the theoretical side, but I'm a philosophy student here at the U of S, and it's regarding the Notion of multiple universes that the good doctor was talking about there.
		And the question I always have when people start talking about that sort of thing is when you talk about multiple universes, you have to ask, like, where are they, basically, to put it simply?
		And it's a two-part question.
		If the answer is simply that they're over there, essentially, that they're located spatially in relation to where we are, then I think it's a misnomer.
		When I consider the word universe, it seems to me that it encompasses all of being, you know.
		And if you're going to say that there's another universe just over there, I would say that all in all, that's just one smaller part of the greater universe.
		And the second part is I have a feeling, and I often talk to physicists about this sort of thing, and I get the answer that the parallel universes are actually taking place simultaneously with ours in the same space.
		And I was wondering, it seems to me that you would run into some problems dealing with, say, two objects occupying the same space at the same time.
		I was wondering if you could maybe enlighten us a little bit about that.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Okay, fine.
		If I have two parallel sheets of paper, one right on top of the other, I could have two universes that are very complete, people living on them like cookie men on a frying pan, and they would be basically in two pedal universes that can't reach each other.
		So they would say, well, where is the parallel universe?
		I can go everywhere on this sheet of paper and never bump into another universe.
		So this multiverse idea is a bunch of idiocy.
		Well, that's because you have to go into hyperspace.
		In hyperspace, you can stack as many universes as you want.
		And that's where these multiverse universes live.
		If we are a three-dimensional bubble floating in 10-dimensional hyperspace, or now 11-dimensional hyperspace, then our rockets cannot reach this other universe.
		The only way to reach these other universes would be through wormholes.
		And that wormholes would require fantastic amounts of energy, 10 to the 19 billion electron volts to open up a hole in space.
		And, you know, we're too primitive to do that.
		So if you ask the question, where are they?
		It's like a bug on a balloon saying, where are the other balloons?
		And the bug can go anywhere on the balloon and say, well, I don't see anybody.
		There's nobody out there.
		There's just this one balloon.
		And meanwhile, there could be millions of balloons out there.
		In fact, there's a TV program called Sliders, which talks about opening up wormholes between parallel universes.
		In the very first episode of Sliders, a boy reads a book and gets the idea.
		That book is my book.
		That's hyperspace.
		He's reading hyperspace in the first episode of Sliders.
		So they do, in some sense, occupy the same space, but it's in hyperspace.
		It's in the other dimensions.
		In H.G. Well's famous novel, The Invisible Man, The Invisible Man was blown in an explosion a few inches off our universe.
		So think of a tabletop with a man living just an inch off the surface.
		He would be invisible.
		The people on the tabletop could not see this invisible man floating just inches above the tabletop.
		He'd be floating in the fourth dimension.
		And that was the origin of invisibility in H.G. Wells' famous novel, The Invisible Man.
		That's why he was invisible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Doctor, we're out of time.
		And I'm out of time.
		And it has been, I cannot tell you, over now the years, actually, having you on the program, such a pleasure.
		You're such a treat.
		I want to thank you for being here tonight.
		Thank you for being part of my final program on the air.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you, Art.
		It's been a wild ride, and it's been a lot of fun.
		And that's what science is all about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, you take care, and I'm sure we will touch one another one way or another in the future.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		That's right, we will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, my friend.
michio kaku ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
		All right.
		Well, listen, I told you all that I'm not good at goodbyes, and I'm not.
		And that is why I prevented callers from saying goodbye to me.
		I made that a condition of their getting on the air with Dr. Kaku, that they don't break into goodbyes from me, because I don't know how to handle it.
		And I also don't know how, in words, to sum up the pleasure of such a long career on the air.
		I don't have words for that.
		And since I don't have words for it, I better not try, huh?
		In other words.
		In other words, there is nothing to say.
		Literally nothing to say except goodbye.
		And thank you all for being here for all this time.
		Anybody I may have missed, we're going to repeat the first hour where I sort of stumbled through trying to say thank you and goodbye and all that sort of sparrow.
		But I'm just, I'm lousy at it, so.

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