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April 26, 2000 - Art Bell

03:17:50

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Art's Farewell - Michio Kaku

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	♪♪ From the high desert in the great American Southwest,
	I bid you all good evening or good morning, as the case may be across this great land of ours.
	Commercially heard from the Tahitians and Hawaiian Islands in the west, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, South and South America, North all the way to the Pole, and of course, worldwide on the Internet, this, for one last time, for me, is Coast to Coast, AM.
	And I'm Art Bell.
	Well, I'm not good at goodbyes.
	I'm just glad not good at goodbyes.
	So, there is going to be a very minimal amount of that tonight, I can tell you right now.
	I've always hated them.
	I don't know how to say them right.
	And all that kind of stuff.
	So, not gonna be a lot of it.
	In fact, as little as I can muster.
	In my life, there's been music that, you know, has affected me.
	I'm really, really, really attached to the music that I play.
	I don't play it just to play it.
	I play it, the bumper music I choose, I choose because it has meaning to me.
	And music has always been one of the best altered states In a world.
	And that's true for me.
	I can literally alter my state by listening to a certain piece of music.
	And as you know, and I think you will recognize, uh, the song I'm about to play holds a lot of meaning for me.
	Really holds a lot of meaning for me.
	Just went straight to my heart and grabbed it and sort of tore it out.
	And, um, it just holds a lot of meaning.
	And I know when you hear it, As many times as I've played it at critical moments, and I pick my moments with music as you well know, you know it has a lot of meaning to me.
	It's been a too long time with no peace of mind And I'm ready for the times to get better
	I've got to tell you I've been racking my brain Hoping to find a way out
	I've had enough of this continual rain Changes are coming, no doubt
	It's been a too long time with no peace of mind And I'm ready for the times to get better
	It's been a too long time With no peace of mind and i'm ready for the times to get
	better You seem to want from me what I cannot give
	You seem to want from me what I cannot give I feel so lonesome at times
	I feel so lonesome Time
	I have a dream that I wish I could live No doubt
	I have a dream that I wish I could It's burning holes in my mind
	It's been a too long time With no peace of mind and i'm ready for the times to get
	better It's been a long time with no peace in my heart.
	With no peace of mind.
	And I'm ready for the times to get better.
	I'm ready for the times to get better.
	I'm ready for the times to get better.
	It's been a too long time with no peace of mind And I'm ready for the time to get better
	That song has held a lot of meaning for me for all these years
	And I've been playing it, playing it, playing it, and the angel who sings it is Crystal Gale.
	Hi, Crystal.
	Hi, Art.
	Oh, boy, it's great to have you on the air.
	It's great to be with you.
	It really is.
	That song really, you know, I think people do that, Crystal.
	I guess they attach their own meanings, uh, to a song like that.
	But it wasn't hard for me to attach to that one really hard.
	You know, that song holds a lot of meaning for me, too, in so many different ways.
	You know, it was a song that was my mother's favorite of mine that I've recorded.
	And every time I sing it, you know, I have these feelings.
	And as you were saying, music, it affects me a lot in just the tones that come out.
	Yes.
	In words that I sing.
	And, you know, it can put me in a good place.
	You know, I actually think that, I said it before, music is like, it puts you in an altered state and it must release something in your body that actually, or in your brain, endorphins maybe, or something that happens to you when you listen to music.
	It does.
	It does, yeah.
	Yeah, I know that certain sounds I can feel it when I sing a certain sound.
	I feel it through my body, and my ears are different than other sounds that I can sing.
	It's like, whoa, I like that!
	And it's not, you know, how I'm singing it.
	It's just that tone that'll come.
	It's like listening to some beautiful flute music.
	I love the Indian flute, the pan flute.
	I love that sound.
	Oh, I love the pan flute, too.
	I'm going to tell you a little story about you that you didn't know about and you wouldn't know about.
	Have you ever been on a cruise?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	My wife and I, when we were first married, went on a cruise to the Bahamas.
	And on the cruise they have all these, you know, silly games where you can embarrass yourself for cheap prizes, you know.
	And they had their version of the newlywed game.
	And we were up there with several other couples.
	And the question was, If you if you could wrap yourself in any famous person's woman's hair, beautiful woman's hair, whose hair would you wrap yourself in?
	And I, of course, my wife was, you know, in the soundproof booth and all that stuff.
	And not a moment's hesitation.
	I said Crystal Gale.
	She came back on stage and said, Crystal Gale, and that was the 25 point question, and we won the game.
	Hey, I like that.
	That's a true story.
	And when I was talking to you on the phone, I mentioned that I have this gigantic poster of you, which is the most angelic picture of any woman I've ever seen in my whole life.
	Just absolutely angelic.
	It's got to be an older picture.
	It's got to be when you were probably about how old?
	Oh, gosh.
	That particular picture came out of, I think, my third album.
	Your third album?
	I think it was the third.
	I think it was just called Crystal Gale.
	I can only go by how long your hair was.
	It wasn't all the way down there.
	It is now to the point where if you're not careful, you can trip on it, can't you?
	Well, you know, I have been cutting it back, and I get people after the show, they'll come and say, you've cut your hair.
	No, tell me it's not that cut, though.
	No, it's not that cut.
	No, I can still wrap it around.
	Listen, Crystal, how's the weather in Nashville?
	I'm headed that way.
	It is beautiful.
	It's been just great.
	It's very warm.
	I mean, it's building up.
	I think it's supposed to be warmer tomorrow.
	It's going to be real nice.
	Oh, that sounds good.
	It'll be a nice, you know, if they stay like the days have been the last couple days, beautiful sky, the blue sky, you know, everything's getting so green.
	It sure is.
	It's God's country, that's for sure.
	Yeah, we could take, you know, 365 days like this.
	I could.
	All right.
	Well, listen, Crystal, again, Thanks for coming on because your music has really meant, you know, it's actually provided me comfort.
	How about that?
	Comfort.
	I like that.
	Yeah, comfort.
	I think that's the word that I would apply to it.
	In some of the, you know, troubled times that I've had, it's just been downright comforting.
	Well, thank you.
	And you mean a lot to me, too.
	I mean, you've inspired me as well.
	Your books have given me a lot to think about as well.
	Well, thank you, and I'm sure we owe you lots of residuals.
	Listen, maybe we'll... Remember when we met out here in Las Vegas and you said you'd love to come out here sometime rock hunting?
	I love rock cutting.
	We got the rocks.
	Okay.
	When you hit the time, we've got the rocks.
	Okay, we'll go rock cutting.
	Good night, Crystal, and thank you.
	You have a great night.
	Take care.
	You too.
	All right, folks.
	There she is, Crystal Gale.
	That gal I've talked about so much on this program.
	That was really nice.
	She wanted to come on and say something, and so there she was.
	Oh, and she has a voice of an angel.
	There's no question about that.
	No question about that.
	Alright, well let's see.
	I didn't do a commercial break yet, did I?
	So, I guess I better do one of those.
	Here comes a commercial break.
	Alright, now comes the successor designates for this program.
	He is, you all know it by now, Mike Siegel.
	And there are maybe a few things you don't know about Mike Siegel.
	He's a lawyer.
	And he has a doctorate in communications.
	So technically, he's Dr. Siegel, actually.
	And I know that he doesn't talk about that.
	He never talks about that.
	But he is all that.
	Mike, welcome.
	Art, it's absolutely an honor to be here with you on your final program.
	I, with everyone else, is feeling kind of a void and a loss because you'll be leaving us.
	Maybe there's something I should tell you, and I don't know if this is the right time or place, but I've decided to change my mind and stay.
	I'll be your first caller tomorrow night.
	No, I'm kidding.
	Well, you have really something in front of you, something wonderful in front of you.
	It's more than wonderful, and you know what you've created with the audience, and it's something very special that I haven't seen created anyplace else in talk radio.
	The funny thing is, I really don't know.
	I just, you know, it's been one of those things, it just comes, and it just came.
	I still don't dissect it, nor fully even understand it myself, and I was always thinking I probably shouldn't try, and that same thing will happen to you, As time goes on, you will sort of mesh into the consciousness of what's happening.
	It's an inevitability.
	You and I have talked about that off the air, and let me say to your audience that I cannot ever repay the debt of the support that you've given me through this process.
	We've talked at length about this, and I thank you for that publicly.
	But I agree with you, and I've tried to say to everyone From the people at the Premier Radio Networks, to the audience, to Alan Corbett, the producer, and to everyone else, that this program really has a life of its own.
	That's what you've, in effect, created with the audience.
	And I'm not here to change anything.
	I'm just here to facilitate and allow it to grow by the audience being the driving force of the program.
	You will find your own way.
	And it will.
	I'm very, very happy.
	You know, the program is going to stay in its genre.
	It's like having a baby and Seeing the baby grow and so but but within that genre you're gonna end up to be your own person on the air You're not me.
	You're you and So there will be different adventures and roads for you to go down which will be a good thing for you and the audience They'll get a little taste of something a little bit different and that should grow the show and what I want to see happen to the show is for it to grow and you'll grow with it and everything will grow and that That's what I want to happen Well, I agree with you, Art, and I think had you stayed with it, and I know you're very content with your decision from what we've discussed privately, and I think the audience should know that, that this is a very important decision for you, but you are fully content with it.
	I think you would have done the same thing.
	I think you would have grown the program, as you've obviously been doing, and we both talked about this off the air.
	There is still room for this program to grow.
	Oh, sure.
	Sure.
	This is a completely different kind of talk radio, and that's why it has come to where it is right now.
	There was a void waiting, I guess, and, you know, when I modified the program years and years and years ago, it just slipped into that void, and America, I guess, has figured out that there's more to talk radio than just, um, is the president a good guy or a bad guy?
	Pretty much that's what it boils down to, you know, on political talk radio.
	And so there's there's room for so much more.
	And lately, the talk shows that have been succeeding are the ones that have been going out there and looking for something else.
	So that's what you've got is something else.
	But it's it's no neat little formula.
	In fact, I'm not exactly sure I know what the hell the show is night to night.
	Maybe maybe that's the best part of it.
	You know, that's the fact that It unfolds with you, and actually, that's what I thought when I filled in for you in the last several weeks in doing the programs, and what I will do in an ongoing way is, number one, as you said, stay in the genre, but number two, let the program take its own course.
	I once worked at a radio station for a very competent and wonderful broadcaster, a general manager who had been around this business for about 40 years, and the station became very successful.
	And all the way through the process, and I was there as it grew, he said, we're going to let this radio station take us where it goes, and we're not going to force it anywhere.
	And I think that's what you've done.
	I guess it is.
	And, you know, that's what you're going to do.
	In other words, there are going to be changes in the program.
	There'll be changes in the website.
	Hell, there's changes in life.
	Everything changes.
	But you'll have some new roads, some new interesting roads to go down, and you've got a lot of really cool stuff to explore.
	Whatever it is that you decide, and I've told you this privately, and I'll tell it to you publicly, when you get a job like this, everybody's a program director.
	Man, I don't care who they are.
	Whether it's the audience, or all the program directors, or the affiliates, or the network, or whoever it is, everybody's a program director, and everybody thinks they know how it should be done.
	You're the only one who really knows how it should be done and you need to listen to yourself and forget about everybody else.
	Art, that's a profound yet simple word of wisdom and you know it's very interesting because one of the major trade publications in our industry did a piece about this and then they had a whole page, I'm sure you know about this.
	You told me about it in R&R or something.
	Yeah, and all of the major programmers in the country, or most of them anyway, had comments
	about where the program should go if you retired.
	And I wouldn't read it.
	I specifically did not read it because you're right.
	You obviously created this.
	I have a lot of faith in my own talent to follow in your footsteps, and it's an enormous
	challenge that I have to undertake.
	But in the end, it's going to be me and the audience.
	Yep.
	Well, listen, buddy, you have a program to do tomorrow night, I think, with Robert Ghostwolf, my friend, Robert Ghostwolf, right?
	That's right.
	That's going to be an important program.
	They found some stuff here in America that you can expand on, I'm sure, tomorrow night that will just blow your socks off.
	You'll see some of the photos.
	It's amazing stuff, Mike, and it's right here in America, so that's what you're going to be doing tomorrow night.
	It's a great opening, and look, your production staff has been incredible, and I'm looking forward to tomorrow night.
	I wish you and Ramona nothing but peace and contentment and happiness in your retirement.
	You deserve every minute of that, and I thank you again for all of your support.
	Thank you, my friend, and take good care of this program.
	I promise you.
	It is your child.
	And I promise you that as the foster parent, I will raise it in the way you would want.
	Good night, Mike.
	Take care.
	Take care.
	And here she is one more time.
	The angel.
	The blue-eyed angel with that long hair.
	This is Crystal Gale.
	We'll be right back.
	Don't know where I've been so blue Don't know what's come over you
	You found someone new Another night, another day goes by
	Another song, but there's still one lover You have to forget to play my role
	You take myself, you take myself from the floor I, I live among the creatures of the night
	I haven't got the will to try and fight Against an end tomorrow, so I guess I'll just believe it
	Tomorrow never comes, I said Tonight, I'm living in the forest of a dream
	I know the night is not as it would seem I must believe in something, so I'll make myself believe it
	This night will never go Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh
	Wanna take a ride?
	Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	to the Rockies 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	And to call out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye.
	It certainly is, and there you go.
	Finding bumper music in the last three days of the show.
	I thought this one was right on the money.
	Well, as I said, I'm terrible at goodbyes, but I do have a few things that I want to say to a few people out there.
	And I'm never going to be able to catch everybody, so prepare yourself for that.
	If you're one of the thousands of people I've interacted with, I probably won't be able to get to you.
	But I've got a couple things I want to say, all coming up in a moment.
	All right.
	Well, you know, I've never done this over the years, but it's high time I did, I guess, here in the last program.
	And that is to thank the people who directly make possible this program.
	And I've named some of them in the past, but I really do want to name a few.
	Ted Alexander, who's a board op in Oregon, Medford, where all of this comes from, or originates, and then bounces from satellite to satellite to satellite, and gets to New Jersey, and then back to satellite, and then back down eventually to radio stations.
	So Ted, Verland Beard, who's chief engineer, Steve Burgess, who's Affiliate Relations in the Western Division.
	West of the Rockies, I guess.
	Deilani Conrad, in charge of Operations, and that means she does a lot.
	Believe me.
	Will Hilliard, who's a board op.
	Roger Daniels, Affiliate Relations, East Division.
	East of the Rockies, I guess.
	Michael Kincaid, a board op.
	Lisa Lyon, Who, you might like to know, is the After Dark editor and special projects person.
	And that, too, covers special projects.
	Have you ever had a title like that?
	In charge of special projects.
	Man, that means anything.
	But she also edits After Dark, which, by the way, will continue.
	Sherry Miller, in customer service.
	Somebody you might talk to if you'd called to network.
	Jim Reed, in distribution.
	Miley Reid in Administration and Sales.
	Stephanie Smith, an Affiliate Relations Coordinator.
	That's all, you know, all the network stations talk to you.
	Or through, or, I don't know.
	Yuta Stensgaard in Sales.
	I want to thank Craig Kitchen, who is the President, CEO, Chief dude of Premier Broadcasting, which is a big network of Rush, Laura, myself, Michael Reagan, and the list goes on and on and on, all kinds of talk programming, so it's a big job he's got, and he's helped me out a lot through this last year.
	Some rather difficult times, to say the least.
	Randy Michaels, who is the chief guy at Clear Channel, With Jones premiere and actually I think a good part of the world and so I want to thank Randy.
	I'll never forget one afternoon when Craig and Randy were here and we talked about what was happening and it's an afternoon not to be forgotten.
	So they both have helped through all this.
	And of course there are tens I can tell you, and I don't know how I'm ever going to do this, I have received, since the announcement of my retirement, tens of thousands of emails, faxes, letters from all of you.
	And there's simply no way I could begin to acknowledge the heartfelt feelings.
	And I'm saving all these.
	I don't know what I'll do with them.
	There are tens of thousands of them.
	Memories, I guess, huh?
	So, all of you people who sent all of these communications, gazillions of communications, thank you.
	It is my intent to return to private life.
	And so, in that regard, you will find a number of things happening.
	You will find the website Beginning to remove material associated with me as it should as it should and The archives the programs over the years that one were archived and were not brought back after a certain point Will not come back now.
	We thought very hard about this and I had a discussion with Craig kitchen about this and the fact of the matter is that It's a tight call, because on the one hand, I understand that the audience would like to have those archives around, but on the other hand, if my intent is to return private life, which it really is, and that means to sort of fade into obscurity, that doesn't mean I'm going to have an obscure life, it means I'm going to have an obscure public life, and believe me, I've had enough
	Of the public life aspect of things.
	And by the way, for any of you who seek fame, be careful what you wish for, is what I would say.
	As you know, I dearly love, this is my baby, this program, what we do here, is a love that I, you know, has been like a love of my life.
	And I love doing this show.
	But I don't necessarily love everything that comes with it and with fame.
	Fame is a pretty weird thing.
	And I've never been comfortable with it.
	I've never been comfortable with the famous part of it.
	You know, doing interviews and appearing in newspapers and going on Larry King and all that kind of stuff.
	I've never, I've never been comfortable with that sort of thing.
	And so that part of it I have not enjoyed so much.
	If it was a perfect world, nobody would know me, and I'd still be able to come on here and talk to millions of people.
	And I know.
	That's a very difficult concept.
	Like trying to figure out the nature of time.
	It's a very difficult concept, but if I'd had my way, I would have taken away the fame part of it, and I would have left doing the program.
	Unfortunately, they're pretty much inseparable.
	And then, of course, there is one person I've got to mention above all.
	And we are inseparable.
	And that's my wife, Ramona.
	There is no way, there's no way in hell that I would have made it through this last hellish period in my life and my family's life without Ramona.
	There's no way.
	She's been there every minute, you know?
	In a way that counts.
	And so the love of my life, my wife, Ramona, is the one I want to thank the most.
	Because she's been here for me every day and believe me, some of these have been pretty difficult days, folks.
	Pretty difficult days.
	So she's gone through a lot of it with me.
	And she's a very, very strong woman.
	By the way, we took one final webcam photograph, Ramona and myself, Just a couple of minutes before the show, I think.
	And you will find that on the website tonight.
	You'll have to look down and find a studio cam.
	But we did take one final photograph.
	And I'll leave that one up there for you.
	Otherwise, I think I'm done.
	That's it.
	And of course, you know, there's a million people.
	All the guests who have been so important.
	And I'm not going to start to name them.
	Because if I begin to name my guests, I would inevitably leave out hundreds of guests, you know, and so many of them so important that if I were to begin to name them, I'd leave a bunch of people out.
	And so I just want to thank all of you who have been part of this program as a guest in the same way.
	Thank you for all you've done.
	Coming up here on this show is a little bit different than going on a lot of shows.
	I can tell you that because, you know, I've Had the travails of going on television and other talk shows and they're not exactly the same.
	This is a different kind of place up here and it's hard to come on the air for five hours for any guest to come on the air for four or five hours and not really open up to who they are.
	It's impossible.
	You can't do that many hours.
	Eventually, you're going to get used to being on the air.
	The nervousness goes away.
	And who you are is going to be finally revealed.
	And a lot of guests have done that on this program, and so I'm not going to start naming you.
	All of you know who you are.
	The regulars, the semi-regulars, the occasional spectacular guest, the occasional bomb.
	You all know who you are, and thank you.
	Even some of the bombs, you know, the learning curve.
	And then, of course, Keith Rowland.
	Keith has been a friend of mine for years now.
	Keith began the website with no connection whatsoever to the radio program.
	He was just a fan.
	And he began the website with another fellow named Myron.
	And it evolved into what it is today, and that skips a lot of Awful lot of territory.
	But it evolved into what it is today.
	Now, not to worry, it will also, of course, remain exactly where it is, telling you about programs coming up, telling you about guests, no doubt, posting the occasional wild photograph of some kind or another up there.
	The domain name, something important for websites, We'll remain www.artbell.com, but that is going to fade into the background.
	I'm going to hold on to that domain personally.
	The new name of the website is the best way to get there, and the way you ought to get there, it's www.coast2coastam.com.
	Either one of them will, however, take you to that point.
	What I would suggest to you with browsers is when you get to the site, Just hit add bookmark and it will automatically add the new URL to get you there.
	But Keith has been there awake with me all night long so many times.
	And done so many things at the last minute.
	You have no idea, even during shows sometimes.
	Inevitably, I mean Keith got to the point where he would expect it, but I would call Keith up In the middle of the night, and I'd say, oh my god, Keith, uh, somebody has sent me this incredible photograph.
	I'm telling you, Keith, this is the one.
	We've got the smoking gun evidence.
	I've never seen as clear a photograph of an object, or a saucer, or a ghost, or something or another.
	And so, I would be sitting here, on the air, trying to upload this thing to my website, to Keith, and getting things on the air, in the middle of the night.
	So, so Keith never had any choice.
	He's stuck with the, uh, stuck with the show all the night through.
	And he's done that now for years.
	So in other words, Keith has really lived the same hours that I have.
	And then I guess my best friend, my best friend is Alan Corbeth.
	And he's vice president of Premier Radio Networks.
	And came with the show when Premier purchased the show.
	Alan Corbeth, he's in charge of the operations up there.
	You know, all the people I mentioned to you earlier.
	He runs everything.
	He's been a personal best friend.
	I mean, that's what he is.
	He's my best friend.
	And he's been that for years.
	And I probably talked to Alan Too many times every day.
	I mean, whenever there's something about the show, I'm on the phone to Alan.
	Boom!
	Like that.
	So we talk, I would say, being honest with you, at least three or four times every day.
	Sometimes I would say we talk as many as 10 to 15 times every day.
	I mean, a lot.
	And today, Today is Alan Corbett's birthday.
	Today, Alan is 55 years old.
	Ha ha ha!
	He's a little older than I am.
	I'm 54, and I'll be 55 June 17th.
	But today, Alan is the big double nickel.
	I wonder how that feels.
	Well, I'll find out soon enough, I suppose.
	But Alan has always been there for me.
	And he's going to be there for Mike Siegel.
	He's the important component in the show, part of the show.
	I mean, I have done things that I know have raised the hackles on the back of Alan's neck and raised the hairs and the hackles and all that, whatever he's got to raise.
	I'm sure I raised it plenty of times because I've always done I've always done really weird, strange, unpredictable, no doubt from a programmer's point of view, scary things.
	I remember all those years ago when I decided I'd had it with politics.
	I mean, the show was pretty big.
	You know, we had a big show.
	It was an open line show.
	I wouldn't say just politics.
	It was a, you know, anything goes kind of show.
	And I was It inevitably went to politics and I was getting so sick of politics.
	And I said, there's got to be another way to go.
	And I said, I'm going to just, uh, I'm going to start doing what I want to do.
	And right now, what I don't want to do is politics.
	I'm fed up with it.
	Oh God, am I fed up with it?
	And so I just, I, I stopped doing it.
	Now, as you might imagine, this came as a severe shock.
	To Alan, who went, gulp, okay.
	And that's how magic happens.
	And he was wise enough to allow the magic to happen.
	I'm sure.
	I'm sure I gave him some scary, scary days.
	Well, okay.
	You know, he said, we'll sure do it.
	And I took off and we did it.
	But Alan was there for me every minute.
	And acted in so many ways behind the scenes for me.
	Besides being my best friend.
	He, uh... He was there for me.
	As so many people were, and that's how all of this happened.
	And as I said, I'm not really good, folks, at goodbyes.
	And I know I miss saying a lot, so I'm sorry for everything I miss saying.
	Uh, tomorrow, uh, I would like to add, uh, no, not tomorrow, Friday.
	I am going to be in Nashville, Tennessee for a hearing at 9 a.m.
	Central Time.
	It's the Circuit Court for Davidson County at 501 Metro Courthouse.
	Nashville, Tennessee.
	Metro Courthouse is downtown on the corner of 3rd and James Robertson Parkway, I guess.
	So, there you have it.
	That's my immediate future.
	And we have a show to do tonight.
	Dr. Michio Kaku is coming on.
	He'll be my final guest.
	Good morning, Mr. Sunshine.
	You brighten up my day.
	...need so much.
	The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sand, or the strength of an oak when it's deep in the ground.
	The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac into the sun again.
	Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing?
	To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing?
	To have all these things in our memories?
	He's here to come to conquer!
	Ride, ride my sweet soul, take this place On this trip, just for me
	Ride, take a feel of this place Wanna take a ride?
	Call Art Bell from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at area code 775-727-1222.
	1-800-825-5033. First time callers may reach Art at area code 775-727-1222 or call the
	wildcard line at 775-727-1295. To talk with Art on the toll free international line, call
	your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Good morning, everybody.
	Well, there was Carl Sagan.
	May he rest in peace, and I'm sure he is.
	He had a unique ability to explain the inexplicable to people in language they could understand.
	And then there's Dr. Michio Kaku.
	And he's still alive and kicking.
	And he is one of our nation's greatest theoretical physicists.
	And I think a fitting final guest on the program.
	He is indeed a professor of theoretical physics at City College of New York.
	He is co-founder of String Field Theory.
	String, uh, Field Theory.
	He is the author of the critically acclaimed and best-selling Hyperspace as well as Beyond Einstein, Quantum Field Theory, a Modern Introduction, an Introduction to Super Strings.
	He hosts himself an hour-long weekly radio program that is syndicated nationally.
	And I guess that has forced him into doing what not many people in his position can do.
	And that is explain these things that otherwise cannot be understood by the general public, but nevertheless are real.
	In a moment, Dr. Michio Kaku.
	You know, one thing just occurred to me.
	Dr. Michio Kaku, of course, is in New York City.
	And I, for the first time in, god, 30 years maybe, I went to New York City to visit my childhood...
	Mmm...
	To visit my childhood, actually.
	All right.
	I got to go to WABC, and, of course, I'm on WABC right now.
	And that was my, all through my childhood, I listened to W.A.B.C., Cousin Brucie, the whole gang.
	I mean, I was there.
	That was it.
	That was the only thing you listened to.
	And so I want to thank Phil Boyce.
	Hey, Phil!
	For, you know, being the guy who called me up and said, hey, you want to be on in the Big Apple?
	You know, that bowled me over.
	And I went back to New York City.
	After all these years, and I expected the old New York City that I remembered, one where you couldn't take five steps without getting hit over the head, and have, you know, if you were wearing a watch, it was gone.
	One where people pushed and shoved you out of the way, and called nasty names after you, and it was just sort of a foul city, but New York, the New York that I went back to, was not the same New York City.
	In fact, it was so clean, It was so incredibly redone that it reminded me of Paris.
	Paris, of course, is very socialistic.
	They take a lot of taxpayer money over there and they keep the place really clean.
	New York's done that without the socialism, or at least as much as they have in France.
	It's a beautiful city now.
	It is the city where Dr. Michio Kaku, co-founder of this string theory thing, is located.
	Dr. Kaku, welcome to my final program.
	Art, glad to be on.
	And let me say, by the way, that my email has been literally flooded with people that want to wish you well.
	They really say that, well, the last show, it's going to be quite a show, and they say, Godspeed, Art Bell.
	They wish you well in whatever you do after the show.
	Thank you.
	Thank you very much, and thank everybody.
	Boy, there's been tens of thousands, and I'll never be able to thank everybody, but thank you.
	Doctor, I'm curious.
	This is sort of a take-it-back question, but I wonder how somebody gets to the rare atmosphere where you are way up there in theoretical physics.
	It seems like an almost impossible place to go, and not very many people go there, and yet there you are.
	So, what drove you in childhood to move toward where you are now?
	Well, what drove me in the direction that I pursued is that when I was eight years old, My elementary school teacher walked in one day and announced that a great scientist had just died.
	Everyone was talking about this.
	It was front page throughout the world.
	And they flashed a picture of his desk with the unfinished manuscript of his greatest work.
	Well, that man who had just died was Albert Einstein.
	And on his desk was the unfinished manuscript of his greatest unfinished work.
	The Theory of Everything.
	The Unified Field Theory.
	And by golly, I said to myself, I want to know what's inside that manuscript.
	And if possible, finish.
	Help finish what Einstein set out to finish.
	Because such a great man must have embarked upon a great project.
	And then as I read more and more about this individual, I found out that he was chasing after this one-inch equation.
	That would explain everything you see around you.
	The galaxies, the stars, the creation, DNA, people, maybe even life and love.
	Is it liable to be that short?
	One inch?
	Yes, we think it's probably that short.
	For example, if you take a look at light.
	The ancients were mystified by what is light.
	And yet light cannot be described by an equation that is just half an inch long.
	Uh, the equation is called Maxwell's Equation, and it says that the four-dimensional divergence of an anti-symmetric second-ranked tensor equals zero, and that's light.
	And in fact, in Berkeley, where I got my PhD, you can buy a t-shirt which says, in the beginning, God said the four-dimensional divergence of an anti-symmetric second-ranked tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good.
	Wow.
	Um, that was eight, when you were eight years old?
	That's right, and everyone was talking about this unfinished work.
	And I wanted to know, what was it that Einstein tried to do?
	He wanted to find an equation that would unite gravity with light.
	And now we want to also include matter as well.
	So we want to include the nuclear forces, light, gravity, into a cosmic framework.
	And today we think that string theory is the best bet to give us this theory.
	Uh, the theory is defined in ten-dimensional hyperspace.
	And, uh, recently, uh, the front page of the New York Times, uh, science section last month, front page article about string theory and the 11th Amendment.
	We're up to 11 dimensions now.
	The 11th dimension, really?
	That's right, we're up to 11 dimensions.
	You've always talked about 10.
	That's right, we now believe, and this work comes out of Princeton, that in 11 dimensions, if you add one more, add one more dimension to string theory, then you get membranes coming out.
	This is called M-theory, M for membrane, or M for mother of all strings.
	And we think that if you add membranes, then this may give us a clue as to where our universe came from.
	Membranes?
	Our universe may, in some sense, be a membrane.
	A membrane that pulsates in hyperspace, 11-dimensional hyperspace.
	You mean by that everything?
	In other words, everything we see?
	Everything we see around this, right, may be a membrane that exists in a larger ocean, larger 11-dimensional ocean, which may have other other blobs, other bubbles.
	Yikes!
	And, well, this was the front page of the New York Times.
	The New York Times is finally coming around to the fact that, yes, string theory is The leading candidate for this fabled unified field theory that will allow us to, quote, read the mind of God.
	That's Stephen Hawking's term for the theory, reading the mind of God.
	Reading the mind of God.
	And if this theory is true, it means that these higher dimensions, these other dimensions that we cannot see or touch, could be quite large.
	They don't have to be small at all.
	Mystics have always assumed that these higher dimensions are very small.
	Because otherwise we could fall into them, and atoms would disappear into these higher dimensions, and our universe would gradually evaporate.
	Are we pretty sure that never happens, by the way?
	Well, we can't be positively sure, but it seems that matter is conserved.
	It seems that matter doesn't disappear, and if there was a fourth, fifth, or sixth dimension, then rocks and apples and oranges would slowly disappear into these higher dimensions, And we don't see that happening.
	But we don't notice what's happening to all our rocks.
	That's right, it's conceivable... In other words, when you're thinking about the whole planet, right, and you're thinking about all the sand and rocks and dirt and everything that makes up the planet, we might not even notice a tiny shift every now and then.
	That's right.
	That's also been speculated, that maybe it does happen, but it happens at such a slow rate that we're not aware of it.
	But the latest theory is that if the universe itself is a bubble, a membrane, floating in a larger space, then there could be other bubbles out there, and this could give us a measurable test of the theory, and that's what's causing all the excitement.
	That's why I made the front page.
	These bubbles could attract each other gravitationally, and we would see this attraction in our universe as something called dark matter.
	Now, dark matter you've probably been reading about.
	It's made big headlines in all the science magazines.
	90% of the universe is made out of dark matter.
	Which is hard to get your mind around.
	In other words, it's stuff that's in what we regard as empty space, right?
	That's right, and it's invisible.
	And it makes up 90% of the known universe.
	The Hubble Space Telescope has now given us maps of dark matter in outer space.
	Now, wait a minute.
	Let's see.
	When we look out, we see suns, we see planets, we see quasars, we see all these things that are made of matter that we do understand.
	Right, atoms.
	Right, atoms and so forth and so on.
	But you're telling me that the dark matter comprises 90% of all that is, leaving only 10% for the stars and the planets and All of that?
	That's right.
	There is a halo, a gigantic halo that surrounds the Milky Way galaxy.
	In fact, all the galaxies that we've measured so far, they all have this gigantic invisible halo that is perhaps ten times the mass of the galaxy itself.
	So your chemistry teacher was wrong.
	The universe is not mainly made out of atoms.
	Only 10% of the universe that we see is apparently made out of atoms.
	And what's causing the excitement is that perhaps dark matter will give us a clue to these other universes.
	These other universes may affect our universe through dark matter.
	Dark matter may be the attraction that we feel from the presence of other universes out there.
	How do we actually prove dark matter is real?
	Oh, it's very easy to prove.
	Vera Rubin, the famous astronomer, showed that the Milky Way galaxy spins too fast for its own good.
	The Milky Way Galaxy has been quite stable for billions of years.
	You know, we all see the famous disks of Andromeda Galaxy and spiral galaxies.
	They're very beautiful.
	Every science fiction movie starts with these beautiful spiral galaxies.
	But they should fly apart.
	They spin too fast.
	According to Newton's laws of motion... Too much energy.
	They have too much rotational energy, they should fly apart.
	What holds them together is the fact they're surrounded by this halo, this sphere, Of dark matter, which is invisible.
	You can't see it in any telescope.
	The Hubble Space Telescope does not show the presence of any dark matter.
	But the Hubble Space Telescope can show that dark matter exists because dark matter distorts light.
	Like lens.
	Think of water.
	Water also distorts light.
	And glass distorts light.
	That's why we have glasses.
	And dark matter distorts light.
	And the Hubble Space Telescope has measured this, measured the distortion of starlight as it goes through the halo of distant galaxies.
	Now, many physicists have stated that the person who could figure out what dark matter is will win the next Nobel Prize in Physics.
	This is definitely worth a Nobel Prize, if someone could find out what dark matter is.
	And, like I said, many people now believe, though they can't prove, that dark matter will give us a clue to the Unified Field Theory.
	It could be an experimental way of verifying or disproving string theory.
	And that's why it made the front page.
	Or otherwise put, the theory of everything that is.
	That's right.
	And we can now, we think, test it.
	Dark matter is such a bizarre thing.
	We know it exists.
	We have maps of it now.
	And so we need it to keep the galaxy, our own galaxy, stable.
	Otherwise, the Earth and the solar system would have been flung out from the galaxy billions of years ago.
	Well, I can understand the concept of an atom, even though none of us see it.
	I understand the concept of an atom.
	I don't understand the concept of dark matter as delineated from an atom.
	It's something, but we don't know what it is.
	It's not an atom, but it's something.
	That's right.
	It's something, and it's invisible.
	It has weight.
	If I held it in my hand, it'd be invisible.
	If I dropped it on your foot, you'd say, ouch.
	You'd feel it.
	In other words, if you could gather... If you could gather some, do you mean?
	That's right.
	There's dark matter in your room.
	There's dark matter in front of you.
	There's dark matter everywhere.
	It's very rare, very fine.
	And there's enough of it outside the galaxy, outside the galaxy to hold it together.
	Dr. Are there equal amounts in space and in, for example, the atmosphere of Earth, do you suppose?
	There's tiny amounts of it.
	In fact, about two months ago, a group in Rome announced that they had finally discovered dark matter in their laboratory.
	It created quite a sensation.
	But then the physicists at Berkeley and Stanford said, no, it's a false alarm.
	You didn't really discover dark matter.
	No.
	but it created quite a flurry in the newspapers about two months ago when a group in Rome
	announced that they had captured dark matter in a box.
	Dark matter in a box.
	Do you think they might have?
	Or is it yet to be answered?
	We claim that it consists of subatomic particles.
	They claim that it weighs maybe 50 times the mass of the proton.
	But we've tried to verify that experiment.
	And the people at Stanford and Berkeley say, hold your horses.
	You're jumping the gun!
	They did the same experiment at Berkeley and Stanford and came up with nothing.
	Couldn't duplicate it.
	Sounds like the cold fusion thing.
	Yeah, however, we have a handle on dark matter.
	We have maps of it now.
	The latest map was announced just last month, in fact, a beautiful map showing the distribution of dark matter throughout our sector of the universe.
	Done by Hubble?
	Done through the Hubble Space Telescope, right.
	That's given us eyes and ears that we never had before.
	Well, mainly eyes, of course, not ears, to see distant objects in outer space.
	And that's why we now believe that dark matter is one of the great mysteries and may give us a clue, a clue to the Unified Field Theory.
	Any Unified Field Theory must explain the reason of why matter, atoms, is only 10% of what really exists, and most of it is dark.
	It's invisible.
	Um, what do you imagine will happen if we discover the theory of everything?
	How will that change our world?
	Well, you know, people ask me that all the time.
	They say, so what?
	Is it going to give me, you know, better color television?
	Will I get better reception on the Internet?
	I'll tell you what.
	This is obviously going to take a second answer.
	Dr. Kaku, hold on.
	We're at the bottom of the hour and we'll be right back.
	My guest is Dr. Michio Kaku, and he is one of our nation's greatest theoretical physicists, co-founder of the string theory.
	And now we're talking about dark matter.
	And the theory of everything.
	The unfinished Einstein theory of everything.
	I guess, actually, if it gets finished, it wouldn't be his.
	It would be whoever finishes it.
	I think.
	I don't know.
	We'll ask about that, too.
	But, you know, how would it change everything to know about everything?
	We'll be right back.
	It's like magic.
	Oh, going and riding and sleeping and sliding.
	It's magic.
	For you and for me.
	Higher and higher, baby.
	It's a living thing.
	It's a living thing.
	It's a living thing To recharge Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
	1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222, or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
	To recharge on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
	Ah, indeed it is.
	Well, there is one person I forgot to mention.
	Dr. Kaku will be, of course, back in just a moment, but there is one person I forgot to mention.
	And he's Bob Crane.
	Bob and Sue Crane.
	Who, Bob, as a sponsor, has been also a very best friend to me and has meant a lot to me over the years.
	Bob started with me back before the network days.
	Back in the days when, if we sold one select antenna, they started to have a party up in Fortuna.
	I mean, he was operating from his kitchen table.
	And now, of course, the Sea Grain Company has gone to become a multi-million dollar, many multi-million dollar operation, big company, but when it began, I was small, Bob was small.
	He was on his kitchen table with selected tenors, and he's chosen to say something a little different in one of his commercial spots tonight, and he sent me a CD and said, play this!
	So, in a moment, you'll hear from Bob Crane.
	Coming right up.
	This is Bob Crane from C. Crane Company.
	Art, I know the first thing you'd say is, what are you doing this for when you should be running an ad?
	Well, the fact is, I can't run an ad the last time.
	Not appropriate.
	Art, you and me go back a long time.
	You were with me the only time we got kicked out of a bar.
	In fact, it's one of the only time I was in a bar.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Sue Crane, and it's been wonderful listening to your shows at night, and I'm gonna miss you on air, but remember, this is just the beginning of a new era.
	Art, I personally want to thank you, and actually, Art, The company would like to thank you for the many great years in which you and Ramona, well, the memories of your best radio shows will go down in radio history as some of the best content of any radio show in the history of broadcasting.
	What you did with your radio show is create something out of nothing.
	Nothing existed in the nighttime and you took nothing And grew into the top talk show host ever in the nighttime radio.
	And I would not be surprised if 100 years from now, people were listening to the Art Bell Show.
	So I want to thank you for your contribution to radio history.
	Certainly you'll be one of the top broadcasters in the history of radio.
	And lastly, please take care of your family and yourself.
	Get out and do some things and have some fun.
	So, someday, someplace, we hope to hear you again.
	Somewhere in time.
	That's Bob Crane.
	Thanks, Bob.
	And it has been a very, very long, wonderful relationship with Bob.
	So Bob and Sue Crane and the C. Crane Company, thank you.
	By the way, Bob Crane I think fits somewhere into the theory of everything.
	I don't know where.
	Once again, Dr. Michio Kaku.
	And it's such a concept, doctor, the theory of everything.
	I guess, let me first, let me ask you this.
	Rather than what's going to happen, I will get to that, but let me ask this.
	Are we ready to discover the theory of everything?
	Well, I think that's a good question.
	I think we were probably not ready to discover atomic energy.
	I think the bomb was pretty much given to humanity when humanity was still in the throes of World War.
	Right.
	And I think that we humans were probably prematurely introduced to nuclear technology.
	However, the Unified Field Theory Exists at the energy of black holes and the energy of the creation of the universe itself.
	We're talking about energy necessary to bend time into a pretzel or perhaps punch a hole in hyperspace or leap into the 10th dimension.
	Aren't we really talking about the creative force itself?
	Yeah, we're talking about forces that are beyond human ken.
	Forces that do not even exist on the planet Earth.
	And that's why when we eventually do master the Unified Field Theory, when we become, you know, what is called a Type 3 civilization, then perhaps time travel, and perhaps wormholes, and perhaps even creating baby universes, are going to be within our realm.
	Well, then, let me ask you this, Doctor.
	If you were to discover If you actually came up with the theory of everything, and the implications of that would be both positive and negative for humanity, you would be faced with the same kind of decision that Oppenheimer was, wouldn't you?
	And I wonder, Doctor, really, have you ever given much thought to, if you did come up with it, would you set it loose?
	Well that's a very interesting question when Oppenheimer and Bohr and Heisenberg and in fact there's a play called Copenhagen that is debuting on Broadway of all places.
	A play called Copenhagen which was The Rage of London is now debuting on Broadway about that question.
	Really?
	What happens when the human mind can conceive of nuclear energy and what happens when a Hitler Hitler wants that energy to create an atomic bomb.
	That's the moral dilemma faced by Bohr and Heisenberg in the Broadway play Copenhagen.
	What happens when humans have the power of a god and the humans don't have the wisdom of Solomon to go with the power of a god?
	Then all sorts of havoc could be unleashed on the world and that's what happened after World War II.
	Now, with the Unified Field Theory, we're talking about cosmic energies, energies that may allow us at some point to harness time machines, or perhaps wormholes, that is, shortcuts through space and time.
	Which may allow us to go to the stars, perhaps, one day.
	Or destroy them.
	Or destroy them, and maybe one day, perhaps, even to leave the universe.
	If the universe gets too cold in the future, we don't necessarily have to die when the universe dies.
	Maybe we'll take a lifeboat and leave the three dimensions of our universe and go into hyperspace.
	Or again, with all due respect to some people out on Long Island, maybe destroy it.
	Yeah, so right now, we humans, We simply do not have the energy to tamper with these things, but again, you know, thousands of years in the future, when we slowly go from Type 0 to Type 1 to Type 2 and to Type 3, then this could be commonplace.
	This could be the realm of a typical Type 3 civilization, a galactic civilization, that uses these energies to bend time and space to their wishes.
	I sort of understand, Doctor, sorry for interrupting.
	I sort of understand what some of the possibilities are.
	Literally, creation or destruction.
	I mean, the theory of everything, unified field theory, would probably allow these manipulations.
	But my question was, if you had an epiphany, if you had this day when you woke up, and there it was, one inch long, and you had it, And you sat down to consider the consequences, positive and negative, kind of like Einstein got it early, maybe earlier than humanity should have had it, and this was all put in your lap, understanding the nature of humanity right now.
	It's more of a social question than anything else.
	The nature of humanity, how far we have come in our type zero-ness.
	You would have to make a decision, wouldn't you?
	You'd have to make a decision.
	However, the awesome power of the unified field theory is a power that won't be unleashed for thousands of years.
	In which case, humanity may have slowly shed the savagery of the forest.
	The savagery with which it originally evolved when we came out of the jungle.
	And I would hope that by the time we evolve to the point of handling this cosmic energy, the Planck energy as it's called, 10 to the 19 billion electron volts...
	That we would have the wisdom to bend space and time in a humanitarian and fruitful way, rather than for private gain or for conquest.
	Yeah, but the bomb sure did follow the formula real quickly.
	That's right.
	Instead of liberating humanity, we got enslaved by the Cold War.
	And we lived under the sword of Damocles, knowing that this power that was unleashed prematurely on the Earth ...held humanity hostage, basically.
	Yes, yes.
	So there is that definite possibility that at some future point, when we are able to bend space and time at will, that it could fall into the wrong hands.
	But, like I say, hopefully by that time we'll be a planetary, a stellar, a mature civilization, which has had hundreds, thousands of years to handle truly planetary and stellar power.
	That we would have the wisdom to handle it correctly.
	So you would not hesitate to unleash this formula to your peers, to the world?
	Because there would be nothing that could practically be done with it right away?
	When Newton worked out the laws of motion, he could calculate what it would take to leap to the moon.
	You have to jump at 25,000 miles per hour, and you can land on the moon.
	He was the first human who, in principle, could even calculate the number of what it would take to jump to the moon.
	But he must have cried knowing that in merry old England of the late 1600s, all they had were horses and buggies.
	And they could only reach about 15 miles per hour.
	But he must have dreamed of the time when these horses and buggies could evolve into devices like rockets, which would take us to the moon.
	And today we have hydrogen bombs, which are the horses and buggies of today.
	And we can dream about the Planck energy, the energy of creation, the energy of black holes.
	Yes.
	We can dream about this energy.
	But all we have today are hydrogen bombs.
	Which are nothing but horses and buggies compared to the energy necessary to rip open a hole in the fabric of space and time.
	But a lot of times, you scientists are surprised, it seems like.
	One day, something is impossible, and the next day, literally, you know, we get a New York Times article that says it's possible.
	Yes, it's very hard to predict the future.
	As Yoki Berra once said, prediction is very hard to do, especially if it's about the future.
	However, let me say that I recently saw a movie called Frequency.
	Oh, you lucky dog!
	I understand it's just coming out.
	I haven't seen it yet.
	Yeah, I did a review for the Discovery Channel, which is going to air on Friday, on Discovery News.
	It's about a ham operator.
	Yeah, who then communicates to his dead father of 30 years ago.
	And as a consequence, tells his dead father how to avoid dying in a fire 30 years ago.
	And then he saves his father from being burned, only to then endanger other people.
	Yes.
	Because by accident, a mass murderer, a serial murderer is unleashed, who will then go on to kill his mother.
	And so by talking in the past with this ham radio, when the northern lights are lighting up the night sky... Like now?
	Yeah, he's able to... Like right now, by the way.
	We're in the 11-year solar cycle right now, even as we speak.
	By the way, there was a story earlier today, Doctor, that the new sparkling International Space Station They were trying to launch three times consecutively to get up there and to get it back into a higher orbit, lest it come crashing back to Earth.
	And they said the reason they're having this big problem is because of the solar activity.
	The solar activity is actually depressing the orbit of this thing, sending it back to Earth.
	We've got to get up there to boost it up or else.
	Yeah, every 11 years, the North and South Pole of the Sun flip, believe it or not.
	The North Pole and the South Pole of the Sun flip.
	Right.
	The North Pole becomes the South Pole and vice versa.
	Right.
	And that releases a shockwave every 11 years, and that shockwave eventually hits the Earth and sends a cascade of ions into the North Pole and the South Pole, which creates the Northern Lights.
	These beautiful lights, which in the movie, open up a hole in space and time, Whereby, uh, the hero could then talk to Dennis Quaid, who is the father of 30 years past, and change the past.
	Even as he spoke on the hand radio, he could change the past, and that would immediately ripple to the present.
	So every time he changed the past, the present would be changed, and he would have double memories.
	Triple memories.
	He would remember the old universe, and the new universe simultaneously.
	Wow!
	Well, the Unified Field Theory says that that's probably not possible.
	Uh, time is like a river, which meanders and speeds up and slows down, but the river of time cannot be changed arbitrarily.
	And, but the river of time can fork into two rivers, we think, and this is how we think time travel is resolved.
	The river of time, we think, can fork into two rivers, so you cannot really change your own past.
	You've just changed, you saved the father of 30 years ago, Who is genetically identical to your real father, but your real father died.
	An alternate universe opens up.
	A parallel universe opens up.
	The timeline forks into two timelines, and you've saved somebody else's father.
	So in other words, they were dealing then in the movie with the paradox question, right?
	That's right, because every time he's on the radio, he changes the past by talking to his father of 30 years ago, who then changes the past, which then ripples immediately to the future.
	And so even as he's speaking on the ham radio, things around him change.
	I saw, you know, I saw a promo for the movie and it showed a photograph, a family photograph, and suddenly somebody blinked out.
	They weren't in the photograph anymore.
	That's right.
	When he saved his father from dying in a fire, that set loose a serial killer who then killed his mother.
	So then his mother disappears.
	Was it a good movie?
	I thought it was a thrilling movie, and of course it sets you on edge because there is a serial murderer who is constantly hunting for the mother, so he has to give orders to his father 30 years ago in order to save his mother today.
	However, as a physicist, I know that you cannot alter the river of time this way.
	You cannot have multiple memories of alternate universes in your mind.
	Your mind is the product of your past, your timeline.
	The timeline can fork into two timelines.
	The timeline can have whirlpools.
	Maybe circular.
	So then they were not allowing for this possibility of the fork that you're talking about.
	They were imagining only a linear line.
	That's right.
	Whenever you change the river of the past, ripples would then progress toward the present and change the present constantly.
	So the guy was constantly changing the reality of the present by giving information on the radio to his father of 30 years ago.
	Literally things would change.
	Things would change shape.
	Photographs would change.
	Memories would change inside his mind even as he was altering the past by talking on the hand radio.
	Wow!
	Now that's a very ingenious idea.
	There's no time machine.
	There's no blinking dials.
	You don't have to go into a box and spin a dial and go back in the future.
	Here's just your voice.
	It's just radio that goes through a hole in space opened up by the Northern Lights and allowing you to have a tunnel through time and talk to your parents before you're born.
	But you know, you know doctor, I went up on the, I have a friend who always looks at new patents and on the new, on the patent page there is a very serious presentation of a faster than light antenna.
	It's, it's been, it received its patent.
	It's got a patent.
	I don't know whether such a thing is really possible or not.
	You mentioned the Northern Lights.
	Surely there is a tremendous amount of energy compression going on in our magnetosphere as we get slammed by the sun at a solar maximum.
	But could a romantic imagine that a radio signal, maybe a ham signal, like the ones I send all the time, Could suddenly traverse, if not the present linear time frame, then find a hole and make it into another dimension?
	Well, I thought about that.
	The Discovery Channel asked me, and it's going to be aired this Friday on their Discovery News, what would it take if the Northern Lights do not have enough energy?
	And I said what it would take is at least a wandering black hole.
	A black hole that wanders in the vicinity of the Earth.
	This was once considered to be preposterous, and yet just two months ago, three months ago, it was announced that we've now discovered two, not one, but two... Wandering?
	Wandering black holes over a thousand light years from the Earth.
	Holy smokes.
	Discovered using the Hubble Space Telescope.
	It weighs about six times the mass of our sun, meaning that it's really too heavy to be a white dwarf, or a dwarf star, or a neutron star.
	It really is a black hole.
	And it's invisible, so we detected by looking at the distortion of starlight as it moves.
	As it moves, you can actually see starlight changing as it moves past the stars.
	And that is a potential candidate For something that may have enough energy to allow radio to go through to perhaps change the past.
	Ooh, that's something to really think about.
	Alright, now hold it right there and we're gonna come right back to frequency.
	About a ham operator who talks to his dead father and changes things.
	Boy, does he change things.
	I'm dying to see that movie.
	And Dr. Kanku just got to see it.
	Lucky, lucky, lucky.
	Well, I'll wait a little longer.
	I understand it's out, I guess, at the end of this week.
	We'll be right back.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Oh, my sweet love, oh my love, oh my love, I really wanna see you, really wanna be with
	you, really wanna see you.
	I mark every stone with a hint and there she leads you to.
	These places I feel my sight just like a river running through.
	The year of the cat.
	Wanna take a ride?
	Well, call Art Bell from Western Rockies.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
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	And to reach Art on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	to reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	And to reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	Good morning.
	My guest is Dr. Michio Kaku, one of the nation's best.
	For more information, visit www.fema.gov We're talking about things that really are kind of hard to wrap your mind around.
	He makes it a lot easier.
	Try and imagine, if you can, for a moment, the theory of everything and what'll happen.
	We'll talk about that, if it is discovered.
	A little formula, one inch long.
	Or maybe you'd like to contemplate the possibility of a wandering black hole.
	For example, what happens... What happens if it wanders toward us?
	You know, I've actually been toying with the idea for years now of communicating with all of you after I'm gone.
	After I'm dead.
	I've said for a long time When I'm gone, watch for me, listen for me in between stations.
	Listen for me somewhere on the airwaves, because that's no doubt if I could communicate back from the dead where I would be.
	And I've said that for years and years, and it occurs to me that...
	If I do go, you might check the area adjacent to the hydrogen frequency.
	You know, I'll make it easy for you.
	We'll do it up near hydrogen somewhere.
	But I've been playing with that idea for years, Doctor.
	So it's an intriguing... So it was a good movie, though, even though it didn't quite agree with the way you think the theory of everything might be.
	That's right, but I think what is thrilling about that movie is that it tries to popularize ideas in modern science.
	The movie actually mentions string theory, by the way.
	I think it's the first commercial movie that actually mentions string theory.
	Well, you must have jumped right up at that one!
	Right, that's right.
	Because string theory gives us the possibility of perhaps one day building a wormhole that'll take us to the stars.
	Perhaps maybe a time machine that may allow us to communicate to some distant point in the past.
	Or it may prove to us that these things are not possible.
	Einstein's theory doesn't go far enough.
	Einstein's... ...of these wormholes.
	It says nothing about what happens when you fall through one.
	What happens if radiation effects kill you, or if radiation effects bottle up the wormhole?
	It says nothing about that.
	Well, it'd be good to send some microwave energy before a human through, right?
	That's right.
	I think definitely we should send radio and microwave through the thing before we do.
	And like I said, with the wandering black holes now being discovered, perhaps one day we might do experiments on some of these wandering black holes.
	There are only a few thousand light years from the Earth.
	That's very close to us.
	Is that good?
	First of all, black holes weren't supposed to wander.
	We always imagined them circling, swirling, but in one place.
	And now they're wandering.
	If one should wander toward us, Professor, what would happen?
	Well, I think at that point we would have to kiss our bottom goodbye.
	A black hole, of course, would be sufficient to swallow the Earth and the solar system and not even burp.
	You wouldn't even notice the fact that it swallowed up the Earth.
	How close would it have to get to do that?
	Well, you would have to get within what is called the Schwarzschild radius, the point of no return of the black hole.
	And depending upon the size of the black hole, the Schwarzschild radius can change.
	The Schwarzschild radius of our sun, for example, is about one mile across.
	Our sun will never get squeezed to that point, and therefore our sun will never become a black hole.
	But large stars that are 10 to 50 times the mass of our sun, they will in the future be compressed down to about a few miles across.
	At that point, they would be sufficient to collapse on themselves and become a black hole.
	So, they would be quite dangerous.
	However, they would allow us, I think, to test the Unified Field Theory.
	Black holes are objects with gravitational forces so intense that quantum effects we should be able to see and we should be able to use them as a laboratory.
	Just like we hope to use dark matter as a laboratory to test for the Unified Field Theory.
	We might be able to use wandering black holes, also, to test for the Unified Field Theory.
	How did we figure out, by the way, that they wander?
	By looking at the Hubble Space Telescope pictures, we find that the distortion of starlight moves with time.
	They tracked it, actually, over several years.
	In fact, they tracked 300 such objects.
	They wander, and as they move, the stars in front of them get distorted.
	They brighten, they move, they dim.
	And then if you track it over a period of time, and then run it like a motion picture, you can actually see this thing move across the heavens, even though it's invisible.
	The distortion is clearly visible if you run it real fast through a motion picture camera.
	Do we know enough to say they wander at a constant speed, and do we know what that speed is?
	Does it vary, or...?
	Yes, you can calculate the speed of it because it's sort of like taking time-lapse pictures of starlight and finding that the stars dim and get brighter as this object moves behind the stars.
	You can calculate how fast they move.
	And like you said, we've now found two of these things and there are 300 such objects that are being tracked that are not yet conclusively shown to be black holes or anything.
	They're tracking about 300 of these things and two of them have been Calculated to have a mass of six times the mass of our sun, which is just right for a black hole.
	And how fast are they moving?
	Well, they're definitely moving, you know, many thousands of kilometers per hour.
	Fortunately, they're not moving in our direction.
	So they don't have our number on it.
	They don't have our name on it.
	That is the ones that we've seen.
	The ones that we've seen, right.
	So we now know that they're quite dangerous.
	And if they ever do come close to the Earth, it'll give us a chance to experiment with one.
	But if they come really close to the Earth, it'll just suck the Earth in and not even bother to notice it.
	What a concept!
	It wouldn't even burp.
	We'd blink out?
	I mean, we would cease to exist?
	What?
	Well, what would happen is we would fall through the event horizon, the short-shore radius.
	Yes.
	And for you falling into the short show radius, it would take you only like a microsecond or so to fall through the point of no return.
	From somebody on the outside, however, somebody far away watching you being gobbled up, it would take thousands of years for you to be gobbled up.
	So you would be like frozen, yelling and screaming as you fell into this black hole.
	Oh, what an attractive idea!
	Yeah, and the Hubble Space Telescope has now photographed this happening.
	We've actually photographed a black hole having lunch.
	There it is.
	Eating.
	There it is.
	Eating gas and stellar material being sucked in.
	Yes.
	And we've actually photographed that now.
	So black holes having lunch have now been photographed as they actively eat up the stars and the gas around it.
	So they're like the mindless sharks of the ocean, aren't they?
	They're just eating machines.
	That's right.
	And there's one at the center of the Milky Way Galaxy.
	You know, our own home galaxy.
	It's not very active.
	We now know where it's located, in the direction of Sagittarius, in fact.
	And it turns out that the black hole at the center of the Milky Way Galaxy is very big, millions of times the mass of our Sun.
	But gas orbits around this black hole, and that's why it doesn't eat up anything anymore.
	So our black hole is not having lunch anymore.
	Basically, stars orbit around the black hole at the center of our Milky Way Galaxy.
	So, we orbit around, uh, satellites orbit around the Earth, the Earth orbits around the Sun, and the Sun orbits around the black hole at the center of the Milky Way galaxy in the direction of Sagittarius.
	Wow.
	Um, when a black hole eats a planet, or a Sun, or a whole system, uh, has its lunch, does it become bigger and stronger, or weaker?
	It becomes bigger and stronger, and we think that the quasars, which are the farthest objects that we can photograph with our telescopes, are baby galaxies where we have this raging black hole having breakfast.
	They're quite young, they're still ravaging the stars and the gas around them.
	They're not quiescent like our black hole in the Milky Way Galaxy.
	Our black hole has already had its dinner.
	And it's quite, quite mild.
	It's not eating anything right now.
	It's good.
	But the quasars, baby galaxies at the edge of the visible universe.
	These are the farthest objects you can photograph.
	These baby galaxies have raging black holes that are having breakfast.
	You can see them just ripping apart the gas and the molecules that make up the quasars, or quasi-stellar objects, which we think are, you know, baby galaxies.
	Our galaxy, our Milky Way galaxy, was probably a quasar, you know, 12 billion years ago.
	Boy, that's hard to imagine.
	You said, you were talking earlier about baby universes.
	That's right.
	And if we can create baby universes, for example, then what's wrong with the concept that, for example, we might be someone else's baby universe?
	That's a definite idea that sends chills up your spine, but we physicists have indeed thought about that before.
	First of all, a baby universe is nothing but a bubble.
	This membrane, this bubble that exists in an ocean of hyperspace.
	These bubbles probably form all the time.
	There are probably big bangs taking place even as we speak.
	Even as we talk, there are probably big bangs happening far, far away.
	In hyperspace, but those bubbles pop into existence and pop out of existence real fast.
	They don't really have much of a life, okay?
	Our universe we now realize is actually quite special.
	It's expanding and it's accelerating now.
	It's not slowing down.
	It's actually speeding up.
	That was another recent find that seems to back up this concept of dark matter, right?
	Why should things be speeding up?
	They shouldn't be.
	After an explosion, any explosion, Things blow outward and then slow down and finally fall to ground.
	Right, that's what we thought would be happening, that our universe would be getting older and gradually slow down, but in fact it's speeding up.
	And we think it's speeding up because of a very mild anti-gravity that you can add into Einstein's equations.
	There are two terms you can play with in Einstein's equations.
	One of them is the energy of curvature of space.
	Matter curves space, and that has energy associated with it.
	But there's also the energy of nothing.
	The energy of the vacuum.
	Einstein thought that should be zero, right?
	I mean, emptiness is emptiness.
	Right.
	But we now realize that emptiness is not empty.
	And emptiness is frothing with particles, virtual particles, dancing in and out of the vacuum.
	The Nobel Prize was given to physicists who actually calculated the energies of these virtual particles.
	And on a universal scale, this creates what is called a cosmological constant, or anti-gravity, which pushes the galaxies apart.
	Now, this is not the anti-gravity you see in science fiction stories, where you jump on a platform and you hover to the moon by standing on a platform.
	That's not the anti-gravity I'm talking about.
	This is a very mild anti-gravity, which is pushing the galaxies apart faster and faster.
	And it does seem to fit the data.
	It does seem to fit the fact that the universe has a cosmological constant, which in some sense I find kind of depressing.
	Well, it is.
	It means that our universe will die in ice rather than fire.
	It means our universe will become very cold in the future.
	And we'll be like homeless people huddled next to the dying embers of neutron stars and black holes.
	Well, actually, it means we'll be all alone, more or less, doesn't it?
	In other words, everything finally moving away from us, isolating us more and more.
	Moving away from us and getting colder, and getting colder as a consequence, right?
	And that's kind of depressing.
	And that could sell the end of all intelligent beings in our universe.
	If you're a type 1, type 2, there's no escape.
	From the death of the universe itself.
	However, if you are type 3, and you can master the Planck energy, then what you may do is create a baby universe.
	Okay?
	This may be the only salvation for intelligent life in our universe.
	There may be no choice in the matter.
	That if you have that kind of fabulous energy, you may want to punch a tiny hole in our universe, like on a balloon that's expanding.
	Yes.
	Pinch off a small baby balloon.
	Pinch off a little piece of the balloon so that it buds.
	It buds into a small little thing that gets bigger and bigger and bigger, and you basically inflate your life raft to create a baby universe out there.
	You create a new place for yourself.
	That's right.
	And, you know, Stephen Hawking's latest book is Black Holes and Baby Universes, where baby universes is central, central idea to the concept of a multiverse or megaverse.
	That our universe is one bubble among many bubbles out there that form the multiverse or the megaverse.
	But Professor, if we could do that, wouldn't we be saying, let there be light?
	In some sense, yes.
	In some sense, we are gods that say, let there be light.
	Out of the mist comes a universe that we will create in seven days.
	Oh, boy.
	So, in some sense, it does seem to, uh, you know, correspond to religious mythology.
	Yes.
	Oh, this time, of course, when mortals, uh, when mortals aspire to be gods, and, of course, you would have to be at least a Type III civilization to do this, uh, our civilization's too primitive to do this, but the laws of physics may allow the possibility of creating a baby universe by which we can escape our dying universe To go into a universe that's warmer, okay?
	And even though this was considered a fringe idea several years ago, it's now mainstream cosmology.
	Any cosmologist can have a very interesting debate about the multiverse, which is now the dominant theory within what is called quantum cosmology.
	These are quantum bubbles floating in an ocean of 11-dimensional hyperspace.
	And again, this picture is the picture that made the front page of the New York Times last month.
	It's a startling picture, but it is totally consistent with the unified field theory, or the piece of it that we have.
	Well, remember Q?
	That's right.
	Q on Star Trek?
	That's right.
	Q had this power, but he was a twerp.
	I mean, he was a little trouble-making twerp, but he had this power.
	Could it be that humanity one day will get this power and be the little twerps that Q was?
	Or will we socially advance right along with the power and responsibly handle the power, unlike Q?
	Well, personally, I think that Q is Type 4.
	He is beyond galactic.
	He plays with galaxies.
	There's one episode of Star Trek where he actually plays with the Milky Way Galaxy.
	That's right.
	So he would, by definition, be Type 4.
	He would be extra-galactic.
	And at that point, he would be a god.
	And personally, I think that as we aspire to higher and higher civilizations, if we don't blow ourselves up in the process, but if we aspire to higher levels of civilization, we'll still have in the back of our brain the savagery of the jungle.
	The last thing we need is an anal retentive god.
	That's right, but I think that we humans, unless we can change our thinking patterns, have within us the limbic system.
	The limbic system is a very ancient part of the brain.
	It is the The so-called monkey brain, the brain of all these emotional passions and angers and jealousies and hatreds.
	That's right.
	Murderous rage.
	It's in our brain.
	It's part of the limbic system of our brain.
	The very emotional brain of raging emotions.
	Comes from our primitive beginnings.
	That's right.
	And hopefully in the future as civilization becomes planetary and these passions of old are forgotten, we'll be able to suppress many of these ancient urges that are still with us.
	You look at children.
	You know, children are in a very primitive state of emotional development.
	And you can see they attack each other.
	They're not noble beings at all.
	They do all sorts of crazy things to each other.
	All right.
	Hold it right there.
	We're at the bottom of the hour once again.
	Time flies.
	One of our nation's greatest theoretical physicists is my guest, Dr. Michio Kaku.
	From the high desert, I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	I tried to wait for you, but you have lost your mind.
	Whatever happened to our love?
	I wish I understood.
	I tried to wait for you, but you have lost your mind Whatever happened to our love? I wish I understood
	It used to be so nice, it used to be so good So when you near me darling, can't you hear me? It's so ick
	The love you gave me, nothing else can save me, it's so ick When you're gone, how can I even try to go on?
	When you're gone, oh I try, how can I carry on?
	Wanna take a ride?
	Call Arkdel from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
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	Good morning, everybody.
	Dr. Michio Kaku is here.
	Remember Q in Star Trek?
	Q was from a horse-level civilization.
	A fourth-level civilization.
	Bear in mind, we're a zero, right?
	He was a fourth-level civilization character, and he was an immature troublemaker.
	So you've got to wonder if something like that couldn't happen.
	How could it happen?
	Well, suppose, for example, that we made contact.
	What do I mean by that?
	I mean...
	Somebody came to see us, or a Dr. Kaku discovers a way to go see somebody else, and we make contact.
	And all of a sudden, we know how to do essentially what Q was able to do.
	How many out there, raise your hands, think we would survive that experience?
	Gonna do it to me even on my last day, huh?
	Alright.
	You know, this computer next to me, you should bear in mind that, uh, I have, in the past, shot computers.
	That's right, I've actually shot computers.
	It was a very immature act, indeed, but, uh, I did, I took a, I took a computer out, and I...
	I put a 223 through its disgusting little belly.
	So, you think about that, computer.
	Doctor, welcome back.
	Glad to be on.
	See, I'd not be the guy to have the power of Q. Right.
	Oh, by the way, Art, before we go on, let me just make an announcement that I have a new webpage address.
	Oh, you do?
	Yeah, it's mkaku.org.
	Very simple.
	M-K-A-K-U dot org.
	Oh, we're going to get a link up right now.
	Okay, it says mkaku.org.
	It's put together by Northern Point.
	Northern Point, a group operating out of Detroit, they helped me to put together this new webpage.
	And hopefully it'll answer a lot of the questions that are being raised in today's program, and also give you a way to contact me if you want, through email.
	Oh, that's absolutely excellent!
	Well, you'll get a lot of email.
	mkakukethelistening.org, I know where he is, and so he'll have that on our website within seconds, and so you can jump over there.
	Wow!
	That's excellent!
	Yeah, it's in the process of being made.
	It's not quite finished, but it'll be finished this week.
	Well, kind of like the theory of everything.
	That's right.
	Maybe not this week though.
	Right.
	Although, you know, what I raised when I came back, can you imagine that another, in other words, contact.
	Imagine contact any way you want.
	They reach us, we reach them.
	More likely they would reach us, I suppose.
	And would there be, in your estimation, A prime directive that would keep that information from us, even if there was contact, or is it likely that that would be given to us as a gift that they considered us ready to receive?
	Yes, or there's a third possibility.
	That would be?
	If you bump into an anthill, you don't go down to the ants and say, I bring you trinkets and I bring you beads and I bring you knowledge and power and medicine.
	You go to the ants and you step on them.
	That's right.
	I have a problem in my driveway every now and then and I do exactly that.
	Right.
	So there's the possibilities that perhaps they'll ignore us because we're simply part of the background and there's also the possibility that they could be very close to us and we wouldn't even know it.
	If you're ants and somebody's building a 10-lane superhighway next to your anthill, The ants would not even know that there's a 10-lane superhighway being built next to their anthill.
	They wouldn't have the sensors, they wouldn't have the imagination, they wouldn't have the intelligence to understand what this, uh...
	Ten Lane Superhighway is next door.
	Oh Lord, I never thought about this.
	So somebody could come along and just build a highway through us and we'd be like an anthill.
	Gone.
	Yeah, we wouldn't even know it.
	However, let me also point out... It's very depressing.
	Yeah.
	We physicists and astronomers have now located 32 extrasolar planets in outer space orbiting other star systems.
	Yes.
	And we discover them at the rate of one a month now.
	That's how quickly we discover these planets.
	And smaller and smaller at that.
	And they get smaller and smaller, right.
	And that's what's sending chills up our spine, knowing that these planets out there, we can detect them the size of Saturn.
	And, however, there is one depressing thing.
	We have now so many planetary systems that we can actually catalog them.
	And we find much to our big disappointment That none of them have life as we know it on them.
	Their Jupiter-sized planets are in highly oval or elliptical shapes.
	Now that's very dangerous, because if our Jupiter all of a sudden had an elliptical orbit and bypassed the Earth's orbit, it would literally fling the Earth into outer space.
	Now that is depressing.
	That is depressing.
	And all of these planetary systems that we've seen before either have elliptical, oval, Jupiter-sized planets in these elliptical orbits, or they have their Jupiter-sized planets very close to the Sun, so close that it would rip apart or throw any Earth-like planet into outer space.
	Our Jupiter is very far away.
	Our Jupiter is in a circular orbit, so it never comes close to the Earth.
	And that's good, because it takes billions of years to get DNA off the ground.
	And if these Jupiters are in highly elliptical orbits, there's no way that DNA could get off the ground in a very short period of time.
	Yes, but we have not yet detected the like... Is it not likely that in many systems there would be Earth-sized planets, though we've not yet seen them?
	It's logical we have not yet seen them.
	The big ones are there, shouldn't the small ones be there too?
	That's right, we think so.
	So far we've only seen abnormal solar systems.
	If our solar system had a twin in outer space, our telescopes are probably not powerful enough to resolve our own solar system in outer space.
	So we do think that once we have the space interferometry satellite in orbit in about 15 years, in about 15 years time we should have a satellite in orbit that specifically We'll look for tiny Earth-like planets in outer space.
	And then we'll have an existential shock on a Saturday night date, looking at the stars with our date, realizing that there are hundreds of twins of the Earth staring at us from outer space.
	Some of them perhaps with oxygen, some of them with liquid water.
	And that's what you need to get life off the ground, liquid water.
	It's the universal solvent.
	It dissolves chemicals that make DNA possible.
	And, uh, we think that there may be Earth-sized planets out there with liquid water on them that will be detected in about 15 years' time when we get the space interferometry satellite launched.
	And that could be a revolution in how we view the universe.
	Not just Jupiter-sized planets, but twins of the Earth, perhaps, in outer space.
	Then the calculations of the probability of life, intelligent life, go right through the roof, don't they?
	That's right.
	There have been a number of articles and books recently saying that life is so rare that we may be the only intelligent life form in the galaxy.
	Is it possible?
	Well, I think these calculations are too primitive.
	You cannot make any judgment right now as to the probability of intelligent life forms in our galaxy because we don't have enough data.
	Right.
	Frank Drake estimated that there should be 10,000.
	Wow.
	planets in our galaxy that have intelligent life. Carl Sagan estimated a
	million. Wow. And there's so much on astronomers who now claim one. That is we
	are the only planet with intelligent life. On what do they base that? Well there is
	some logic to it.
	No, we are in the Goldilocks zone of our Sun.
	We're not too close, not too far from the Sun.
	We're just right to have liquid water, the universal solvent that makes DNA possible.
	Our galaxy has a Goldilocks zone.
	If our Earth were too close to the black hole at the center of the Milky Way galaxy, we'd be fried apart because it's too radioactive and too much cosmic rays there.
	If we're too far from the center of the galaxy, Then there's not enough heavy elements.
	Heavy elements that make up our body beyond lithium, beryllium, hydrogen, what have you.
	So if you're too far from the center of the galaxy, there's not enough raw material to get DNA off the galaxy.
	So we're about two-thirds the way out from the Milky Way Galaxy Center, which is just right at the Goldilocks Zone of the galaxy.
	So we think that, yes, it is rare.
	We think that life is rare in the galaxy.
	But there are so many stars in the Milky Way galaxy, 200 billion stars, that even a fraction of them would still give us thousands of planets with intelligent life forms.
	So I think it's still premature to make any of these guesses.
	Which possibility would surprise you more?
	I think what would surprise me more if we're the only one.
	If we are the only one, that would really surprise me.
	As Arthur C. Clarke said, either we are alone or we are not alone.
	Either proposition is frightening.
	Yes, it is.
	Would it change, Professor, your views about creation and the possibility of the God of the Bible?
	Would it change any of that for you if we did make a determination that, hey, we're it?
	If we were the only ones in the universe, that would be quite scary.
	It'd be frightening, in fact, because we are ripping apart our planet, polluting it, degrading the oceans, degrading the atmosphere.
	And if we're the only ones, and we are the cradle, the cradle of intelligent life for the Milky Way Galaxy, and here we are, you know, flushing it down the toilet, that's very depressing.
	So, I would like to believe that there are other star systems out there that could have Type I civilizations that are mature, that have solved the greenhouse effect, that have solved nuclear weapons.
	They've attained planetary status.
	They are Type I. I would love to believe that there are stable, mature Type I civilizations out there that have negotiated all these barriers.
	Because if we're the only one, it's pretty scary.
	You know, it's pretty scary to be the only one Well, let's stick with the pressing thought for a moment that we might be the only one, and looking at what we're doing, I think most of the audience understands what you mean by a Type 0, a Type 1, a Type 2, a Type 3, a Type 4.
	Maybe they don't, and maybe we should give them the 101 on that.
	You know, as you look around, with 40% of the Arctic ice gone, with the global warming or the greenhouse effect or whatever it is that's going on, our weather certainly is in the midst of a big change.
	That's obvious.
	A lot of things are happening, some of them not so good for Earth.
	You can calculate odds for just about everything else.
	Seems to me you can calculate the odds of us becoming Type 1 and us remaining Type 0 and virtually eliminating ourselves.
	I'm sure they're depressing numbers.
	Do you have any idea what they're like?
	Well, it's hard to say.
	In my latest book, Visions, I tried to paint the world of 2100 and 2050 and 2020.
	You know, what will computers look like?
	What will we have robots?
	Will we cure cancer?
	Will we cure the aging process by 2050 or 2100?
	But then I also have to ask the question, are we going to make it 2100?
	Exactly.
	Will we mess up the atmosphere so much that, as you point out, will the poles begin to crack and fall out?
	Will Alaska, already large parts of Alaska, are beginning to thaw out?
	The Antarctic giant hunks falling off?
	Yeah, in 1998, two years ago, went down as the warmest year ever recorded in the history of science.
	I know.
	Last year would have made it, except for El Nino.
	But 1998 has gone down as the hottest year ever recorded in the history of science.
	That goes back a thousand years.
	And by looking at tree rings and lake sediments, we can go back about a thousand years.
	And it's very humbling realizing that we are in a historic, geologically historic era.
	The hottest year ever recorded in the history of science.
	The last three months of this year, 2000, were the hottest months ever recorded by the National Weather Bureau.
	One after another.
	Yeah, in a hundred years since the United States has been calculating weather patterns, The last three months, January, February, March of 2000, were the hottest months recorded.
	So if you really lay it on the line for us, Professor, what are our odds?
	What are present trends considered?
	I think we would have to put it pretty low, 10-20%.
	It's pretty low.
	The way in which we are messing up the planet, and the fact that no one's doing anything about it.
	That's the frightening thing.
	The fact that we're just watching it happen, it's sort of like a deer caught in the headlights of a car.
	The deer sees it coming.
	The deer says to itself, hmm, I think there's a car coming at me.
	I think a car is coming very close to me.
	And then whack!
	It hits the deer.
	So you're saying the human race is like a deer caught in the headlights?
	That's right.
	We see it coming.
	You can see it coming.
	And we're paralyzed because people say, well, maybe it's going to go away.
	You know, maybe it's just a bad dream we had, right?
	But I personally think that there could be a lot of Type 0s out there that never made it to Type 1.
	When we develop starships, and we visit some of the nearby stars, we may see planets with radioactive atmospheres.
	We may see planets that have their atmosphere too hot to sustain life.
	And when we visit the nearby stars, it could be very depressing, realizing that some of the intelligent life forms out there never made it past the savagery that's contained in the back of their brains.
	Well, you know, there are some who are They would say they're not caught in the headlines.
	They would say, look, it says in the Bible that all of this has been put here for us to use and that's what we're doing.
	It'll all work out.
	Don't worry about it.
	Well, that's the best case scenario.
	But I think we as humans have to look at not just the best case scenario, but the most likely scenario.
	And the most likely scenario is that we will have sea level rise.
	We're going to have monster hurricanes.
	And a monster hurricane could dump a lot of water into Manhattan and flood the subway system.
	New Orleans is below sea level.
	New Orleans is the city that's most endangered because the greenhouse effect is below sea level for the most part.
	Did you know, Professor, they're evacuating some Pacific Islands now?
	Because they're going underwater!
	Yes, and you may have second thoughts before you buy beachfront property.
	You know, by the time you retire and give them to your kids, the beachfront property may be worthless, if not the hurricane.
	Uh, develop, uh, hurricanes get their energy from warm water.
	That's where hurricanes get their ferocious power.
	Yes.
	And as the ocean water is warm, it gives, uh, hurricanes more energy.
	Gee, I'm glad you brought that up, because I'm sure you've heard that they just measured a half-degree rise at 1,000 feet below sea level, and their detectable rise all the way down to 10,000 feet, uh, below sea level, uh, under the ocean.
	It's an unimaginable amount of energy, in my mind, that could produce... I mean, it's not a bathtub, for heaven's sakes.
	What could produce enough energy to cause a rise of a half degree at a thousand feet?
	Yes, we are talking about global warming.
	One of the reasons why the atmosphere of the Earth has only heated one degree after pumping all this carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, most scientists now realize that it's because it went into the oceans.
	The oceans do absorb a lot of heat, and they also absorb a lot of carbon dioxide.
	So we have a temporary sink that is preventing the Earth from rising more than just about a degree over the last hundred years.
	However, sooner or later, the oceans are going to rebel.
	They're going to say, well, look, I've absorbed enough carbon dioxide, I've absorbed enough heat, now you take it, right?
	And then at that point, the temperature of the Earth could rise very rapidly.
	You know, the North Pole and South Pole, they've heated, apart from the South Pole, they've heated up four degrees.
	I've heard that.
	degrees within the last 50 years.
	I've heard that.
	That's catastrophic.
	You know, one degree in the last century, one degree in the last century is the average
	temperature rise of the earth.
	But in the South Pole, it's been four degrees in the last 50 years in certain parts of the
	South Pole.
	And that's definitely causing concern.
	When the oceans give it back, they're going to give it back, in fact, actually, they're
	beginning to give it back now.
	They're getting the biggest hurricanes, the biggest typhoons that we've ever seen, just
	really scary monsters of typhoons.
	And that's the beginning of the give back, isn't it?
	Perhaps, you know, the insurance companies are deathly afraid that they're going to go bankrupt if we have a big monster hurricane.
	In the future, it may be impossible to get hurricane insurance because one big one could literally wipe out hundreds of billions of dollars throughout the Caribbean.
	And not to mention, by the way, that, and this is in the New York Times just this week, there's a drought affecting the growing areas of the United States, probably because of global warming, which could mean that the breadbasket, the growing areas that have made food so cheap in the United States, the growing areas could gradually become a dust bowl like they were back in the 1930s, or even worse.
	Now that could have catastrophic implications for our economy if food, which is one of the big exports of the United States, If food is affected because of drought, then the rest is obvious.
	Doctor, hold on.
	Professor Michio Kaku is my guest.
	I wonder if we could really go back.
	Oh, right, it's coming on.
	We gotta get right back to where we started from.
	Love is good, just love to be strong.
	We gotta get right back to where we started from.
	I see you in the middle of the day.
	And it's only you that I need.
	When you put your hand in my mouth.
	Holding you is a warmth that I thought I could never find.
	Just trying to decide.
	I'll stay by your side.
	I know I could cry.
	I just can't find the answer to the questions that you've got in my mind.
	Hey, baby, if I die, is there time to wait?
	I've been falling in love with you all the day.
	If I die, is there time to wait?
	I've been falling in love with you all the day.
	I've seen visions of someone like you in my life.
	A love that's strong, reaching out, holding me through the darkest night.
	Oh I can't believe I fell for you.
	Wanna take a ride?
	Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
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	First time callers may reach Art at area code 775-727-1222.
	to the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may reach Art at area code 775-727-1222, or call the wildcard line at 775-727-1295.
	To talk with Art on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	When you think really hard about it, you gotta wonder how a sea...
	By the way, somebody just noticed and sent me a fax about the fact that the final webcam picture that we are taking, my wife and I took together, and I've got a t-shirt here, a new one from South Park that says Cartman.
	But if you'll notice, when my wife is in the picture, the C is not there, and it just says Art Man.
	Purely, I assure you, completely unintentional.
	I didn't even notice until I got a fax.
	Amazing.
	Maybe not.
	Yeah, who knows?
	This might be where we're going to find a webcam photo.
	It's pretty interesting.
	And, of course, as I said, Dr. Khakhu's new website is now there for your perusal.
	Now, here comes a question, Professor, from Neil at Topaz Ranch.
	So here we are, stuck with all our primal instincts inside the bubble foot of some balloon horse that a clown has made for some kid at a circus midway in some circus that's so huge we don't even know it exists.
	Well, just another reason not to quit smoking, right Art?
	In other words, that is certainly one possibility that people like yourself have to consider and how do you At times, as you mull these things over, Professor, keep from getting depressed.
	Okay, well, when I open up the newspaper, not only do I see dire warnings of global warming and pollution and the proliferation of nuclear weapons to India and Pakistan, Right.
	I also see the seeds of a Type 1 civilization blossoming before our eyes.
	What is the Internet?
	The Internet is nothing but a Type 1 telephone system.
	It's the beginning of a telephone system of an emerging Type 1 civilization.
	There's a Type 1 language emerging before our eyes.
	It's called English.
	You can go to any place on the Earth and talk to educated people and we can converse in English as a universal Type 1 language.
	There's a emerging Type 1 economy coming out of the ground.
	Look at the European Union.
	These countries have slaughtered each other for the last 10,000 years, ever since the ice melted over Europe.
	And now, for the first time in 10,000 years, these peoples have banded together to form a common economic union.
	There's even a Type 1 culture emerging.
	You can go to any place on the Earth and show pictures of two people instantly recognizable by anyone on the Earth.
	They're not Bill Clinton or Hillary Clinton.
	They're Arnold Schwarzenegger and Madonna.
	So my God!
	I mean, we're going to have bubblegum, blue jeans, rock and roll culture that is the foundation of a Type 1 culture.
	So what I see is every time I open the newspaper, I see the beginning of a type 1 language,
	economy, culture, telephone system.
	And to me this means that if we can hold back our rapacious, savage instincts, we could
	create an age of Aquarius on the Earth.
	So there are two trends emerging on the Earth right now.
	One trend is toward unification, like in Europe.
	One trend is toward reaching for a planetary type 1 civilization.
	The other trend is toward the abyss.
	Yes.
	is toward global warming, is toward eating up all natural resources, overpopulation,
	squandering of the oceans and the air, our birthrights, we're essentially dumping all
	this garbage here. But the other side of the coin is we're seeing the birth pangs of a
	typhoon civilization being born right before our eyes. And sometimes I feel privileged
	to see it happen. I'm privileged to see it happen in the newspapers every day. The beginning
	the beginnings of a Type I civilization being born.
	So if we don't blow it, If we don't really mess up the Earth in nuclear proliferation, as nuclear weapons proliferate to India and Pakistan, and we don't blow up global warming, we could literally create a paradise on Earth.
	We certainly have enough technology, in terms of computers, DNA technology, to do this.
	And then when I read the medical journals, then we are approaching unraveling the aging process of the genetic level.
	We're approaching that at the current minute, or is it changing at the genetic level again?
	And we may even have the possibility of one day creating nanotechnology, that is, atomic machines, that could unleash a second industrial revolution.
	Yes, yes, all of that is true, but objectively, if you look at both sides, I don't see time on our side right now.
	Well, it's a race against time.
	Uh, we do have, I think, a few decades to go before we hit the point of no return, where the degradation of the atmosphere and the oceans will be so severe that nobody will be able to reverse it.
	I think we still have a window, but the window is closing pretty rapidly.
	But my attitude is, well, we have to organize.
	Yeah, well, I call not only to converse with each other and entertain each other, but also to be part of the political process, to influence candidates, to influence initiatives.
	You know, we physicists helped to create the Internet to fight a nuclear war.
	It was to be used to, you know, rebuild America after World War III.
	Is that really what the beginning of it was?
	That's right.
	I mention it in my book, Visions, when I talk about the origin of the Internet.
	One of the reasons why your email is broken up into many pieces and sent to many cities and then reassembled at the other end, that's why your header, your header is so big.
	Yes.
	You can see where all the messages went.
	...is because in a nuclear war, many cities will be vaporized, and so your message may not reach the destination if there's only one path.
	Therefore, your message is broken up and scanned through many paths, and then reassembled at the other end.
	I know.
	So, in other words, it's like, um, trying to poke your fist through a cobweb.
	You might get a piece, but it's still gonna get delivered.
	That's right.
	That's why email was created that way.
	Before that, it's broken up and reassembled at the other end, partly to survive a nuclear war.
	That's the original thinking, Doctor?
	That was the original thinking?
	That's right.
	That was the original thinking.
	Right.
	Remember, the Internet was originally a Pentagon secret plan that we physicists and mathematicians created.
	I've been on the Internet for, I don't know, 15 years or so.
	And it was basically for the scientists, apart from other scientists, to rebuild America after World War III.
	Wow.
	And, uh, so, you know, it was very depressing when I was first off the Internet years and years ago, realizing that this was a doomsday telephone system.
	This is a telephone system that I would use to rebuild chemical factories and rebuild hospitals.
	Naturally, of course, it was a doomsday device.
	And then the Cold War ended, and all of a sudden, the Pentagon and the National Science Foundation decided to simply let it loose.
	And that's why we have the Internet.
	It's because the Soviet Union broke up.
	If the Soviet Union had not broken up, it would still be this top secret device for scientists to communicate with each other.
	So, from the seeds of doomsday comes, possibly, the salvation of humanity.
	That's right.
	That's why I see the seeds trying to bust through this pessimism.
	Because when I was on the internet it was quite depressing at first realizing that this was a pentagon device that I was basically allowed to use because scientists were hooked up first and it was used basically as a doomsday machine.
	But now, I mean think about it, even Greenpeace uses the internet now to organize demonstrations to save the whales.
	I know.
	I frequently wondered how the government feels about that.
	So I think the solution to the The problem is democracy, democracy, and more democracy.
	The more power is given to people, the power to organize, the power to educate, the power to laugh, the power to love, as long as that power is diffused throughout the people, then democracy will kick in, and then people will get their way.
	You know, as Eisenhower once said, one day the people are going to get so fed up, they're going to push the politicians out, and they're going to get their way.
	Well, let me again go to the dark side and ask you a question.
	question. The Cold War is over, yes, but as you pointed out, India, Pakistan, Russia is
	in terrible turmoil. The Chinese, of course, are ever-present Chinese with their nuclear
	weapons and so forth and so on. Doctor, if there was, I mean you said survival of a nuclear
	war or the rebuilding after.
	If there was a full thermonuclear exchange, if we still made that horrible mistake, and there was a full thermonuclear exchange, what would be left?
	Well, not much.
	Carl Sagan did that famous study showing that perhaps only a hundred nuclear bombs, just a hundred megatons, would be enough to set off an atmospheric darkening of the skies, which would plunge the temperature of the Earth so that nothing would grow.
	Humans would gradually freeze to death.
	Nuclear winter was a possibility, with only a hundred hydrogen bombs being detonated.
	And now we have the former Soviet Union with upwards of 10,000 nuclear bombs and, you know, they don't even know where some of these bombs are.
	I know.
	I spoke in Russia about five years ago as a guest of the Russian Academy of Sciences and some Russian physicists came up to me and asked me for a job.
	These were weapon scientists.
	I could have hired, you know, weapon scientists and become a nuclear power if I wanted to.
	By hiring some of these people, they're looking for jobs now.
	And that's kind of frightening, knowing that these are bond businesses who are out of a job and have to feed their families and ask me for a job.
	So that's kind of frightening, knowing that they could wind up in some of the most unstable areas of the world.
	Would there be, in a full nuclear exchange, any survivors, ultimately?
	There may be some survivors, but they'll live in such wretched conditions that, as Khrushchev once said, the living will envy the dead.
	Because the living will live in wretched conditions, food is going to be scarce.
	We'll revert back to Stone Age savagery.
	You know, we'd like to think of ourselves as being civilized, but you take a bunch of us and put us in the middle of the forest, and within a few days we revert back to Stone Age might makes right.
	We're that close to being part of the Stone Age culture.
	And, uh, so I think that if there is a nuclear war, or if nuclear exchange takes place, then, yeah, the atmosphere could be destabilized, and pockets of humanity would live, uh, miserably.
	And that, by the way, is one reason why I think that the United States should not develop a Star Wars program, because it's frightening the Chinese and the Russians, and it's gonna spur them to build more nuclear bombs to penetrate a Star Wars field.
	Are we working on it, Professor?
	Uh, definitely.
	Four billion dollars a year are being pumped into a Star Wars program.
	That's a lot.
	That's a lot of moolah.
	That's a lot of money.
	Four billion a year.
	And, uh, ultimately, uh, well, so far it's consumed about a hundred billion.
	Not one weapon system has come out of it so far.
	That they're telling us about.
	Yes, it's a system that doesn't work.
	And it's a system that's frightening the Chinese, frightening the Russians, and they have vowed to pierce it.
	Which means, you know, flooding the shield with more bombs than decoys.
	And decoys only consist of tinfoil.
	So if asked, you would not work on Star Wars?
	That's right.
	I think it's in the wrong direction.
	I think the people of the world want peace.
	You know, we just got through the Cold War.
	We got through all these nuclear scares.
	And here's, you know, the Pentagon racing ahead with the next generation of devices called anti-missile systems.
	And the chances are they're not going to work.
	And more likely, an enemy can simply get decoys, like aluminum balloons.
	In a chaff, during World War II, bomber pilots would drop tinfoil in the air, and it would confuse ground radar.
	Ground radar would not see an airplane, it would see a cloud, a cloud of tinfoil.
	And they didn't know where the bomber was in this cloud of tinfoil.
	So you're saying no matter what, enough would get through?
	That's right.
	You can confuse God radar by putting chaff, or tinfoil, mylar balloons inside a nose cone, and that would be used to pierce any Star Wars system by cooling it, you see.
	And that's why I think it's, um, it's like the Maginot Line of the French.
	Remember the French before World War II?
	Sure.
	They built this huge barrier between Germany and France, thinking that would protect them against Germany.
	The Chinese built the Great Wall of China to protect themselves against the Mongols.
	But what actually happened?
	The Mongols simply bribed the guards of the Great Wall of China
	and went right over the Great Wall of China by bribing the guards.
	What did the Germans do?
	They fired over the marginal line and went around the marginal line.
	So we're destabilizing our own future.
	Well, that's right.
	I think we've spent enough on nuclear weapons.
	I think now's the time to enrich our schools, to create this age of Aquarius that we could have if we rise to become a type one civilization, rather than reaching for Cold War weaponry, thinking that we're going to fight a nuclear war against North Korea.
	Which I think is silly.
	The North Koreans can barely feed themselves.
	Why do we have to, you know, fight this war with North Korea?
	Oh, I'm not so worried about the North Koreans.
	The South Koreans should be worried about the North Koreans.
	But I am a little concerned about the old Soviet Union and China, and we should be concerned.
	But not to the degree you say that we should build something that would provide what you consider to be a false protection.
	A passport act, sometimes it frightens the enemy, because if you have a bulletproof vest, and you're in a gunfight, and you have a bulletproof vest, the enemy gunfighter freaks out, knowing that his gun is useless, right?
	Well, he shoots you in the head is what he does.
	We'll be right back.
	We'll see right where you are.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Dr. Kaku is my guest.
	We're going to open the phone line shortly for Dr. Kaku.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Well, this is Coast to Coast, AM in the Night Live.
	This is the night, and the night is so deep.
	And we need to know, too, that there's a light.
	I'm gonna make myself a fool, I, I have faith. I'm gonna run the wheels of time and fight, against the music.
	I feel like going to heaven.
	You make my tails go up, oh.
	I feel like I'm on a cruise.
	I'm on the run, the wind's in my side.
	Against the wind tomorrow, so I guess I'll just believe it.
	Tomorrow I guess I'll just believe it, tomorrow will never come, I said tonight.
	I'm remaining honest on the green, I know the light is not far away.
	I must be believing something so I'll make myself believe it, this night is my time.
	Wanna take a ride?
	Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
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	A recharge of 1-775-727-1222.
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	And a recharge on the toll-free international line called your AT&T operator.
	And have fun dialing 808-930-7234.
	This is the end of the line, we choose all the night.
	Good morning everybody.
	My guest is one of our nation's premier theoretical physicists.
	Co-founder of the String Theory, he is Dr. Michio Kaku.
	And we're talking about really all that is.
	We'll get back to him in a moment.
	He's the fella who wrote something called Sunstroke, and he writes, Dear Mr. Bell, check this out, folks.
	You have met Mr. Bell.
	A certain feature film titled Sunstroke, starring Steven Seagal.
	Without you, this film would not be going into production this fall.
	Producer Jeffrey Newman, Steven, and especially myself wish to thank you for very much allowing us that time for this.
	We greatly respect your wish to return into private life, but somehow suspect it's not over till the fat lady sinks.
	Thank you again for giving me the time of my life as a guest on your program and for everything.
	Best wishes, David Kagan.
	Now, that's really something.
	I did make a couple of behind-the-scenes moves when I talked to Steven Seagal, but I didn't realize that this had coalesced.
	So, there's a little peek at the future, folks.
	And by the way, I didn't really do much at all.
	I had David Kagan on as a guest.
	I talked briefly with Steven Seagal.
	I just put a couple of people together, and that's all.
	And I had no idea it coalesced into this, so I'm happy about that.
	Professor, speaking of sunstrokes, there was some fairly recent news that suns, stars, if you will, just like ours, Occasionally, really go berserk for no discernible reason, and they flare out and destroy all the planets around them.
	I was a little worried about that, and that would be a sunstroke, alright.
	Could that happen to us?
	Possibly.
	Our sun is a rather ordinary yellow main-sequence hydrogen-burning star.
	Meaning that it'll last for about five more billion years before it starts to become very erratic.
	Yes.
	and becomes a red giant.
	Yes.
	It'll expand and eat up the Earth.
	Yes.
	So the Bible says, from dust to dust, ashes to ashes.
	Physicists say, from stardust we came, and stardust will go back.
	We're going to go back into the sun in about 5 billion years.
	So the Earth will end in fire rather than in ice.
	Uh-huh.
	Now, however, I should also point out, and this was announced just a few weeks ago, the galaxy, the Milky Way galaxy, is on a collision course with Andromeda, our nearest neighbor.
	Yes.
	And we could collide in three billion years.
	So even before our sun dies, we could collide with our nearest galaxy.
	Which, by the way, is visible almost as binoculars.
	Look in the direction of the constellation Andromeda, and you'll see a smudge, which is our nearest galaxy, our nearest neighbor, about two million light years from Earth.
	Right.
	We are headed towards that galaxy, and it's not going to be pretty.
	It's going to be a hostile takeover.
	The Andromeda Galaxy is going to eat up Our Milky Way Galaxy, because it's bigger.
	The Andromeda Galaxy is much bigger than our galaxy.
	But still, that's billions of years away.
	Billions of years away.
	No problem there.
	But they found that even suns like ours, that seem so normal and stable, suddenly erupt in some unimaginable way.
	Do you believe that to be true?
	Possible, but I think our sun tends to be on the small side, and probably is going to be relatively stable.
	We have computer programs that try to simulate our sun, and it shows that it's going to live a pretty quiet life until it erupts into a red giant, then becomes a white dwarf, and will probably die as a burnt-out dwarf star.
	So the atoms of our body will eventually go back into the sun, and our sun will probably die as a burnt-out cinder.
	However, neighboring stars could be unstable, like Betelgeuse.
	Betelgeuse is not a movie starring Michael Keaton.
	Betelgeuse is a star in the constellation Orion.
	It is a red giant, and it is apparently unstable.
	And when that star rips, and that star undergoes supernova, watch out!
	It's not going to kill the Earth, but it could create some disturbances on the Earth, because it's the nearest red giant that we're aware of.
	What kind of disturbance would you imagine?
	Well, the x-rays will hit our atmosphere and cause an electromagnetic pulse.
	You know, hydrogen bombs do this.
	Yes.
	And that could wipe out electronics, communications, your CD, your toaster, and... The internet.
	The internet could be paralyzed.
	Satellites could be blinded by this burst of radiation.
	And if a supernova is really close, it could kill life on Earth.
	We once thought that the dinosaurs were killed off by a supernova.
	Now we believe it was an asteroid or comet that hit Mexico 65 million years ago, the Yucatan of Mexico.
	But we used to think it was a supernova that wiped out the dinosaurs.
	So that's a very unstable star, and as I mentioned, Betelgeuse is unstable, and probably will undergo supernova.
	Not in our lifetime, of course.
	But when it does happen, it could be a little bit dangerous.
	It's not very close, but it's close enough to cause trouble with communications, cause weather changes, and, you know, a burst of x-rays.
	It could kill a lot of life forms on the Earth.
	Well, the Earth has received some immense blasts that they've documented actually fairly recently.
	Yeah, this was just announced this week.
	We now realize that a gigantic asteroid or whatever hit Australia and that may have wiped out the trilobites.
	Really?
	So, yeah, we've now documented five humongous impact craters on the Earth.
	One in South Africa, one in Mexico, one in Australia.
	And the one in Australia took place roughly 200 million years ago, and that probably wiped out the trilobites.
	These small, uh, three, uh, uh, you know, uh, looks like snails that have three chambers.
	Uh, wiped them out, and they were the first dominant species of life on the Earth, uh, about 200 or so million years ago.
	So these meteorite impacts are more common than we think they are, and they probably have wiped out 90% of all life forms, uh, during the age of philobites, knocked out, uh, the dinosaurs 65 million years ago.
	And, you know, the only dinosaur left from that era are probably birds.
	Birds are probably descended from dinosaurs.
	And our ancestors used to be eaten up for breakfast or for a snack by dinosaurs.
	That's why our ancestors never got it very big.
	So I have no problem eating chicken at night knowing that if that comet or meteor had missed Mexico, That dinosaur would be eating me, rather than me eating that dinosaur at dinner time.
	And you'd only be a snack.
	I'd only be a snack for that dinosaur, right.
	Alright, one quick faxed question, and then I want to go to the phones here.
	It's kind of an interesting question, simple it seems, but maybe not.
	What is the underlying physics principle which makes certain solid materials, such as glass for example, transparent to light?
	Okay, the reason why glass is transparent is because the atoms on glass do in fact absorb light, but then they re-emit light of the same direction and wavelength, but just by time delay.
	So it absorbs the light beam and then re-emits it with a small time delay.
	So it actually slows light.
	That's right.
	That's why the speed of light in glass is the speed of light divided by the index of expansion, which is like 1.2, 1.3.
	So the speed of light in glass is slower than the speed of light in a vacuum.
	It absorbs light and then re-emits light of the same nature, a fraction of a second later, and that delay time causes the light to bend in glass.
	That's why it's possible to go faster than the speed of light in glass.
	Wait a minute, I thought you just said, uh, I missed this.
	It slows it.
	In other words, I can understand the concept that glass or water would slow the speed of light.
	Yeah, you cannot go faster than light in a vacuum.
	And when light goes between atoms...
	If an atom of glass is slowed down, there's a time delay with that molecule, and then it then goes at the speed of light to the next molecule of glass.
	So the speed of light in glass is faster.
	It's possible to go faster than the speed of light in glass.
	I think so.
	It's a powerful speed of light in the water.
	That creates an effect.
	Right.
	Airplanes, they go faster than the speed of sound.
	They have sonic booms.
	Right.
	You can create a light boom.
	Not a sonic boom, but an optical boom.
	Yeah.
	Light up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up When people talk about glowing in the dark, the reason why you glow in the dark after a nuclear war is because your radiation is traveling faster than the speed of light.
	So, again, we're talking about slower would produce a red shift faster would produce a blue shift, yes?
	Well, not quite.
	The cooling down process means that the speed of light in glass is slower than that in a vacuum.
	You've never been that close, thank you.
	Yeah, if you ever do that, it's very eerie, because the rods glow blue.
	Have you ever been by nuclear power plants, and you've seen the nuclear fuel rods on the bottom of the pumps?
	Never been that close, thank you.
	Yeah, well if you ever do that, it's very eerie, because the rods glow blue.
	There's a blue glow that emerges from them.
	And that blue glow, by the way, is the glow that takes place in nuclear accidents.
	There was an accident in Japan several months ago, a big one, where workers mixed too much uranium, and there was a small nuclear detonation that went off in the man's face.
	There was?
	Yes.
	This has happened in America about seven times.
	Seven Americans have been killed with these kinds of accidents.
	Each time you have a supercriticality accident, you basically have a small atomic bomb going off in your face.
	And you have this blue glow.
	This blue glow is Cerenkov radiation.
	Neutrons are traveling faster than the speed of light in air, which is slower than the speed of light in a vacuum, which nothing can exceed.
	And yes, these are called criticality accidents.
	These have been pretty much secret.
	Most Americans don't know this.
	But Americans have been blown apart in nuclear accidents and killed in nuclear accidents in the United States.
	Mainly by this blue glow, by the Cerenkov radiation, the neutrons.
	And it happened in Japan.
	And one worker died and another worker probably will die in Japan because he mixed too much uranium.
	Critical mass was attained right near his face.
	And there was this blue glow as neutron burst out of this container.
	And like I said, at Los Alamos, several workers have been blown apart this way.
	Really?
	It's a horrible way to die.
	I remember watching a movie about the Manhattan Project.
	And apparently, and that's one thing they have admitted, during that project, apparently, They had two balls of uranium and they got too close together and I remember the fellow who made the mistake and got them close together, coffee spilled or something happened, maybe that was just drama in the movie, but they got too close together and suddenly there was this giant emission
	And they quickly did the calculations, and the fellow who, of course, was right in front of it, said, I'm dead.
	And he was.
	That's right.
	Very shortly, and then everybody else was basically okay, but he was dead as a doornail.
	That's right.
	Two people would die that way.
	Harry Daglian, in 1945, but after the Nagasaki bomb, was the first American to be blown apart by having a nuclear detonation happen in his face.
	He died one month after Nagasaki, when he tripped and fell, and he tripped on tungsten carbide, which reflected the neutrons.
	And there was this blue glow as a burst of neutrons ripped through his body, and he pretty much disintegrated in the Los Alamos Hospital.
	It took about two weeks for him to die.
	And then a few months later, 1946, just in the beginning of the next year, Louis Slotin, a Canadian physicist, had two hemispheres of plutonium on a tabletop, and he had a screwdriver.
	And with a screwdriver, he could bring these two hemispheres of plutonium closer and closer and closer together.
	If you bring them too close, then you get a nuclear detonation.
	Well, one day, he slipped.
	There was a beryllium cup that he was turning, and it slipped.
	Too many neutrons were reflected.
	And in that instant of time, he realized there was going to be an explosion.
	So he lunged forward with his bare hands, ripped apart the plutonium, and he took the full blast in his stomach.
	Oh my God.
	And he also died in the Los Alamos Hospital, and horrible autopsy pictures have been published in the Annals of Medicine, and huge blisters all over their bodies took place.
	So, again, this is caused by Cerenkov radiation, by the mechanism of going faster than the speed of light in air, creating a blue glow, and these neutrons will rip through your body and you don't feel a thing.
	Evolution has not given us any pain sensors for radiation, so we don't feel a thing.
	But we slowly disintegrate as all our body's cells fall apart.
	You believe in evolution, don't you?
	Yes.
	So that if there was a full nuclear exchange, would you think there might be an evolutionary ...change that would allow us to feel pain under such conditions.
	Yes, but it would be very slow and billions would die.
	Yes.
	Only a handful, the smallest handful of humans would survive in order to then propagate a new species of humans that could feel radiation.
	They would say, ouch, if they got too close to uranium or if they got too close to nuclear fallout.
	However, our sensors, our nerve sensors, are totally incapable of feeling radiation.
	So we could get hit with a lethal amount of radiation and not feel a thing.
	These people were hit with 2,000 to 5,000 rads of radiation.
	500 rads is enough to kill you.
	These people were hit with up to 10 times the lethal amount of radiation, and they didn't feel a thing.
	And they virtually disintegrated.
	Slowly, they turned to... large parts of their body turned to carbon, charred carbon.
	And like I said, this happened just a few months ago in Japan at the Tokaimura nuclear site in Japan.
	It happened again.
	Nuclear workers were careless, this time with enriched uranium.
	They had it in a cleaning bucket, for God's sake.
	They poured it and it reached critical mass.
	A cleaning bucket?
	Yeah, it's incredible how lax security was at this plant.
	And same things happen at our plants, too.
	You know, we've had criticality accidents at Oak Ridge in Tennessee when there's too much plutonium in the walls.
	There's, you know, pipes of plutonium waste in the walls.
	Right.
	And we've had criticality take place in the walls containing plutonium.
	I've never heard this.
	Yeah, we physicists know because, of course, we have all the documents.
	I have many of the documents of these accidents.
	And it's outrageous, reading the history of how careless we physicists have been handling plutonium, letting it go critical in the walls.
	Again, seven Americans have been killed this way, and there have been...
	How is all of this out of the press?
	It's known to physicists, but you really have to dig.
	You have to get access to classified material, a material that's semi-classified, and then you read the real history of the dangers of nuclear energy and the people that died, you know, harnessing the power of the atom.
	It's like riding the tail of a tiger.
	You know, it's very powerful, and if you make a mistake, it'll bite you.
	I think in that movie that I saw about the bomb, they said they were tickling the tail of the tiger.
	Yeah, tickling the dragon's tail.
	That's it.
	What they would do is they would get these two hemispheres of plutonium, bring them together very slowly, and then Geiger counter needles would go off scale, and then he would then bring them apart.
	And you would tickle the dragon's tail by bringing them together gently and getting them closer and closer and closer together until, you know, the Gagriconda needle went off scale.
	In less than... Well, sometimes the dragon won.
	Yeah, exactly.
	In other words, sometimes you go a little too far, the dragon wins, and you lose.
	And you lose, and you're sent to the hospital, and you don't feel a thing, but you slowly disintegrate over the next two weeks.
	It's a very sad process.
	And I suppose there was no help for those people.
	Moreover, no doubt, the scientists wanted to study what would happen to them.
	That's right.
	Just think about it.
	One month after Nagasaki was exploded, here was a controlled experiment.
	No blast, no heat.
	It was just pure neutrons that ripped through Harry Daglian and Lewis Slot in 1945 to 1946.
	A controlled experiment.
	They were hit with roughly 2,000 to 5,000 rads of radiation.
	Again, about, you know, 5 to 10 times the amount necessary to kill you.
	And, uh... You're basically mush.
	They could watch them slowly charring, you know, blistering, charring.
	They could watch this happen in slow motion, which was incredible.
	Doctor, we're at the top of another hour.
	You're good for one more hour, right?
	Right, that's right.
	All right, stay right where you are.
	We'll be right back.
	And in your market.
	If not, then from the high desert, goodbye.
	800-825-5033.
	First-line callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	To reach Art on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	1222 and the wildcard line is open at 1775 727 1295. To reach out on the toll-free international
	line call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Ghost to Ghost AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye. It is such sweet sorrows.
	Good morning, everybody.
	My guest is one of our nation's greatest theoretical physicists, Dr. Michio Kaku, from New York City.
	And we've got a link to his brand new website on ours, so I suggest you check it out.
	For all the questions that we're not able to cover here, you just might find the answers there.
	And he has a wonderful, wonderful book called Visions.
	It's my favorite.
	Visions really is my favorite.
	It's one you've got to pick up, and it's available nationwide, Amazon.com, all the usual places.
	So, pick it up.
	Check it out. Read it.
	♪♪♪ Well, all right, I meant to fling the phone lines open
	about a half hour ago, but, uh, some of that information was absolutely riveting
	to, uh, to let go.
	But we'll do it now.
	Dr. Kaku, are you ready?
	That's right.
	All right, here they come.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Michio Kaku.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art.
	Good morning, Dr. Kaku.
	I have two questions for you.
	Let me ask them both at the same time, please, Art, and then I'll hang up and listen on the radio.
	Go.
	Question number one regarding a Type 1 civilization.
	Question number two regarding the MAP, the Microwave Angiotropic Probe Spacecraft.
	Number one, question number one, since George W. Bush is in favor of oil, and is in favor of Star Wars, and Al Gore is against Star Wars, and also is an environmentalist, wrote the book Earth on the Balance in 1970.
	From a Type 1 civilization point of view, Wouldn't it be prudent to vote for Al Gore over George W. Bush?
	Question number two, happening almost at the same day as election day, November 6th or 7th, will be the launch of the microwave anisotropy probe.
	Question number two, would you discuss in detail the microwave anisotropy probe spacecraft?
	Alright, there they are.
	The first one is an obviously politically charged question.
	It might be noted here that though Gore Earlier in his political life seemed very
	Well, let me take it really quick.
	In the campaign It hasn't been quite the same and there are a lot of us who
	feel It won't make a whole lot of difference one way or the
	other but he's right about what was said and George Bush Is an oil guy
	And he's an oil guy Unlike Clinton
	Well let me take it really quick, if you look at Al Gore's position
	They are very close to Clinton's position And Clinton unfortunately is for the Star Wars program
	It took a conservative like Nixon to go to China And it took a liberal like Clinton to give us Star Wars
	Don't worry.
	Reagan could not push Star Wars on the American public, but Clinton is trying to do it.
	A Democrat, a Trojan horse, basically, is trying to give us the Star Wars program.
	So, personally, I think that people should build their conscience, but really, we have to put a certain fire under the butts of some of these politicians To make them take correct positions on building a peaceful, planetary, prosperous Type 1 civilization rather than trying to build walls around ourselves like the Chinese did with their Great Wall and the French did with their Maginot Line.
	Walls that crumble when push comes to shove.
	So it sounds then like you might like to build an oil fire under George...
	George is bucked.
	Oh, that's right, because we have to make the transition away from fossil fuels.
	We have to go to hybrid electric cars.
	we have to go more toward renewable sources of energy.
	Because the rest of them are not anyway.
	And in 20 years time, we're going to have a set of that.
	And then we're going to have to fix it.
	And oil prices begin to skyrocket.
	Now the other question is the microwave background.
	You talked about quasars.
	You know, quasars are the farthest objects you can see with a telescope.
	Sure.
	They go back 12 billion years into the past.
	But then the question is, what lies beyond the quasars?
	What lies beyond the quasars, believe it or not, is the Big Bang.
	Okay, it lies beyond the quasars.
	Now, you can't see it because your eyes are, you know, the eyes of an animal, basically the eyes of an ape, and we cannot see microwaves.
	Apes cannot, animals cannot see microwave radiation.
	Right.
	But that's the color of the Big Bang.
	The Big Bang's color went from, you know, ultraviolet to the optical, and now it's very cold, about three degrees, In temperature, which corresponds to microwaves.
	And that's why we're sending up microwave satellites out there now to take brilliant photographs of the remnants of the Big Bang.
	The microwave radiation dates from 300,000 years after the Big Bang.
	It's not a photograph of the incident of the Big Bang.
	It's a photograph of the Big Bang 300,000 years after the incident of creation.
	And there are irregularities in the cosmic explosion.
	These irregularities eventually, we think, gave rise to galaxies, and gave rise to the clumpiness that we see in the universe around us.
	So, one of the reasons why the universe is so clumpy, why we have galaxies and galactic clusters, is because there was an anisotropy, an unevenness in the original Big Bang, Which then gradually expanded to give us the galaxies of today.
	So then this satellite will be able to virtually look Beyond these outward markers, these quasars, and actually see the radiation from the bang itself?
	That's right.
	You go far enough into the past, and you actually are staring at creation.
	So, ironically enough, for the Kansas State School Board that does not believe in evolution or the Big Bang Theory, every night the Big Bang comes out.
	Except, of course, it takes microwave eyes to see it.
	And that's why we sent up the COBE satellite, which was a cosmic background microwave satellite, which took a photograph of, quote, the face of God.
	Now, the media called it the face of God.
	It was a circular photograph with clumpiness in it.
	It's not really the face of God at all.
	It's the face of the Big Bang.
	We had actually photographed the Big Bang 300,000 years after the initial explosion.
	And it's a gorgeous photograph.
	It's published in all astronomy books now.
	I've seen it.
	And we're now sending up the next generation of satellites to take fine photographs of this microwave background, which is the echo of the Big Bang.
	It's the aftermath of the Big Bang, 300,000 years after the instant of creation, and it comes out every night.
	It's beyond the quasars, basically.
	Professor, could there be anything other than radiation detectable past that?
	In other words, if we have the ability, could we someday detect anything at all?
	I mean, it goes back to the child's question of what's past the end.
	What's past the end?
	What lies beyond the microwave radiation is neutrinos.
	Neutrinos would take you, I think, about a minute after the Big Bang.
	You could actually photograph what the Big Bang looked like about a minute after creation.
	But neutrino telescopes do not exist.
	You would have to be probably a very mature Type I civilization to create a neutrino telescope.
	If you had a neutrino telescope, you could look right inside the Earth.
	You could see earthquakes as they are forming.
	You could see continental drift take place.
	Neutrinos go right through the Earth.
	And neutrinos would allow you to penetrate the Big Bang to just about a minute or so
	after the Big Bang itself.
	And then beyond that, you would have to, of course, go to string theory.
	You would have to go to the unified field theory to tell you what happened before the Big Bang.
	Okay.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Dr. Michio Kaku.
	Hi.
	Ah, Arthur.
	Yes.
	I'm sorry, I got caught off guard.
	Anyway, uh, Dr. Kaku, uh, two real quick, one, uh, one long question and then one three-inch paper.
	Uh, as far as, uh, nuclear detonation, Uh, the internet and other such things going down, what would it take to bring them back up quickly, to, you know, begin putting the world back together, and for your inch of paper, matter times infinity squared?
	Well, it's not really thinking, right?
	Okay.
	Uh, you know, is that, do you think that is really a practical idea?
	You did talk about why the internet was formed in the first place.
	In a full nuclear exchange, Would it really get back up, Doctor?
	Well, it depends on how much damage had taken place.
	This exchange was only on the level of several megatons.
	In other words, only a few major cities got wiped out.
	Then you would have a nuclear autumn, or nuclear fall.
	Temperatures would drop, but civilization would recover, perhaps in a few decades.
	If you're talking more than a hundred megatons, and of course Russia and America have thousands of megatons worth of nuclear bombs, then you are talking about literally sending humanity perhaps a hundred, two hundred years into the past, back to, let's say, the beginning of the Industrial Revolution.
	Where humans would... Well, you've seen the movie Road Warrior, right?
	With Bill Gibson?
	Yeah, sure.
	People reverted back to savagery, trying to find any amount of oil to keep their rotting machines going.
	There'd be little fiefdoms, I suppose.
	That's right.
	Strong men would emerge that ruled with the force of their oil-fired contraptions.
	Kind of like Somalia, actually.
	Sort of like that.
	It would revert back to a very low level of savagery with high-tech weapons.
	And that's what, you know, Road Warrior was about.
	And that's what the world would look like after a nuclear exchange.
	It would take, you know, a century, several centuries, to get back up to the level of modern civilization.
	And then, of course, if it was a complete nuclear exchange, we would have nuclear winter.
	Temperatures would drop, oh, 50 to 70 degrees.
	Crops would fail.
	And remember the dinosaurs were probably wiped out in just one year.
	It probably took no more than a year for these dinosaurs to get wiped out when the comet or meteor hit the Yucatan of Mexico 65 million years ago.
	Would some be able to go underground in vast shelters?
	That's what the few pockets of humanity would have to do in case of a major exchange.
	They would have to go underground.
	They would have to keep warm.
	They would have to build machines that could survive underground so that the radiation above ground would gradually decay with time.
	But, you know, food stocks would run out very quickly.
	And so humanity would revert to a very low level of barbarism.
	In such a condition?
	How long would, after a full exchange, how long would humans have to remain below ground before they could come to the surface again?
	Well, most of the radiation would damp out in a few weeks.
	Most of it.
	However, the residual will be there for thousands of years, irradiating people, raising the mutation rate, monsters will be formed, you know, humans that look like humans would be treasured because of the fact that there are so many humans that don't look like humans because of the low level of background radiation that's everywhere.
	And the human fetus is quite sensitive to radiation, as we know it, and so there would be a very high mutation rate that takes place.
	The living envying the dead.
	That's right, and so that's why I believe that we should not allow the bomb to proliferate, you know, and the bomb has not proliferated to Asia, to between, you know, Pakistan and India.
	And that's a frightening prospect because between them they probably have on the order of 100 atomic bombs between them, between each other.
	India with roughly maybe 60 to 80 atomic bombs and Pakistan with probably about 20 atomic bombs.
	And that's a lot of bombs.
	And that's why I think we really have to force a comprehensive test ban treaty and a nuclear non-proliferation treaty to make sure the bomb doesn't proliferate to other unstable areas of the world.
	All right, um, whether that can happen, I don't know.
	I'm a half-empty glass of water guy.
	Uh, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with, uh, Professor Cocteau, aren't you?
	Yes, Dr. Cocteau.
	You're one of my favorite art bell casts.
	I have a very good question.
	You said that it would be destabilizing.
	I'm sure it has defenses in its compound there.
	I'm concerned about what you think about discomfiting the enemy.
	Why should we be concerned about discomfiting the enemy?
	It's because we can defend ourselves from attack.
	Actually, that's a very, very good question.
	Well, let's say, hypothetically, that Russia invented a Bluetooth app.
	How would we react?
	We would freak out.
	We would literally freak out of our pants.
	Because, in the end, all our nuclear weapons were useless.
	Well, we could beat our chance with all the nuclear bombs we have in our arsenal, but the Russians have a bulletproof vest.
	They're invulnerable to an attack from the United States.
	That's how we would feel.
	Now, think about how the Russians are feeling today.
	The Russians have a common nuclear arsenal, and the United States is reaching for a full-approved vest, which I think we'll have time for that.
	But still, it is reaching for a full-approved vest.
	How are the Russians going to feel?
	We're going to feel that all the weapons they've bought with their national treasure, all the millions of rupees they've sacrificed, they're for nothing!
	Because they cannot penetrate a full-approved vest.
	So what would the Russians do?
	They would build more bombs, And, uh, put decoys on them to follow and penetrate the field.
	I mean, we would do the same thing, too, right?
	We'd come right inside a bulletproof vat.
	Or even worse, they would preempt.
	Preempt, right?
	If you knew that your enemy was building a bulletproof vat, you'd shoot him before he put it on.
	That's right.
	Right?
	Because once he put it on, then your weapon rams it.
	So you gotta use them before you lose them.
	Okay, there's one perhaps logical argument for the building of something that would stop a ballistic missile.
	And the one logical argument is that an all-out nuclear exchange is not at all likely.
	And the argument is that what is likely is perhaps a single missile, perhaps a mistake, perhaps Who knows, a terrorist managing to get some sort of ballistic thing together with a warhead.
	And in that case, you could take out one or maybe two.
	Obviously not hundreds or thousands, but one or two in a limited situation you could take out.
	That's what the argument is.
	Well, let's say you have a terrorist with two or three atomic bombs.
	Right.
	Are they going to fire them at the United States and have them shot down?
	Or are they going to put them on a cruise missile?
	to fly underneath ground radar to hit San Francisco.
	Or you just put them on a tugboat and send them into San Francisco Harbor.
	Or you disguise it as heroin and ship it to Texas.
	I mean we can't stop heroin from coming into our borders.
	What chance are we going to have of stopping a homemade atomic bomb from
	coming in our borders and being dropped into our sewer system?
	And someone says, well, you know, give me a million dollars or else I'll blow up El Paso, Texas and their sewer system.
	Actually, it's surprising it hasn't happened yet.
	Right, that's why I think that a terrorist is not going to go up against a Star Wars system.
	A Star Wars system is useless against a terrorist that will simply use the United States mail to mail a hydrogen bomb or an atomic bomb into the country.
	So that's why I think that we're going to be spending all this money when the terrorists themselves are not stupid.
	They're not dumb.
	They know that they're going to be up against this gigantic shield, which may not work.
	So they're going to either send it on a cruise missile below ground radar.
	Maybe UPS?
	Or just like with heroin, you know, we can't stop heroin from coming into our borders.
	And that's why I think that we should negotiate with these countries to have them dismantle their nuclear installations.
	If they dismantle the nuclear installations, it's very easy to verify by satellite.
	And therefore it would be impossible for them to have an infrastructure to build these nuclear weapons because they've dismantled it by treaty.
	And our nuclear weapons?
	Well, I think that we should cut them.
	You know, the Russians are now saying that they're going to sign SALT 2.
	And they're gonna, you know, cut their nuclear arsenals, because of course they can't maintain them anymore.
	They're crumbling, they're rotting, they're falling apart.
	Actually dangerous, aren't they?
	And they're dangerous.
	A loose nuke is the worst thing possible.
	And there have been several hundred incidences now in Germany and Czech Republic of people selling nuclear materials on the black market.
	I didn't want to hear that.
	Doctor, hold on, we're at the bottom of the hour.
	Several hundred incidents?
	Now, gee, I haven't read about that.
	Have you?
	Dr. Michio Kaku is here.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	Like a train reaching in the night Sweet dreams are made of this
	Who am I to disagree?
	I travel the world and the seven seas Everybody is looking for something
	But some of them want to use you And some of them...
	...want to use you I travel the world and the seven seas
	Everybody is looking for something But some of them...
	...want to use you And some of them...
	...want to use you The wild card line is open at 1775-727-1295
	And to call out on the toll free number...
	You know, I thought maybe the last piece was the piece of umber music.
	800-893-0903.
	This is Coaster Coaster M with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nile.
	You know, I thought maybe the last piece was the piece of umber music.
	The greatest piece ever sung.
	I see friends saying I'm a saint
	saying I'm a saint saying I'm a saint
	Oh, they're really saying I'm a saint
	I hear waves crash I watch them grow
	When you're talking about the possible extinction of the human race, it's such a great contrarian piece of music, isn't it?
	Good morning, everybody.
	Dr. Michio Kaku is here.
	As we approach the end, I'm Art Bell.
	stay right where you are.
	Alright, once again, Dr. Michio Kaku from New York City.
	Which, by the way, seems to me would be a prime terrorist target.
	Probably that or Washington, D.C., and I bet you've thought about that, haven't you?
	Yes, I definitely have thought about that.
	We are ground zero.
	I'm speaking from Manhattan right now, and when the World Trade Center bomb went off, I could actually see a lot of the flames and the smoke coming out of the World Trade Center from my apartment house.
	Oh, that must have been eerie.
	That's right.
	I couldn't get to my house because there were so many ambulances and fire trucks blocking traffic.
	I had to walk home because no taxi could penetrate this thicket of roadblocks and police cars and ambulances and what have you.
	So that's one of the, you know, byproducts of living in Manhattan.
	If Manhattan were ever more or less vaporized by somebody's suitcase, Would the United States probably survive it?
	The United States would survive it.
	We would, of course, have a huge dent in our gross domestic product.
	We sure would.
	We sure would.
	The national headquarters of many of our corporations are here.
	Indeed.
	But in the movie, in the movie, Fail Safe, you know, we knew it was the Russians.
	The Russians knew it was us.
	In the case of a terrorist, they may simply bomb a city and not even reveal who they are.
	And that'd be very frustrating.
	You know, here would be this gigantic giant flailing away at nothing.
	Uh, not understanding who was, uh, who did that, uh, that bomb threat.
	And that's another reason why I think that we should not concentrate efforts on an anti-ballistic missile system, but to concentrate efforts on the control of nuclear materials and nuclear infrastructure to make sure that nobody can start to develop these things.
	You know, atomic bombs are hard to build.
	They're harder to build than you realize.
	It takes a huge infrastructure to build these things.
	And this infrastructure is clearly visible by satellite.
	Could you build one?
	If I had the materials, yeah, I could probably do a pretty decent job.
	It wouldn't be that hard.
	A lot of the designs, the principles have been published already.
	It would require delicate machining and microcapacitors and electronics to synchronize the detonation.
	But you have friends.
	Yes, it wouldn't take that long.
	Not that much, really, for a physicist to put one together.
	Now, a hydrogen bomb is more difficult.
	A hydrogen bomb, you really have to have supercomputers do the calculations for a hydrogen bomb.
	But an atomic bomb, like I said, accidentally, they've gone off spontaneously in accidents.
	Sure, sure.
	Well, if ultimately nations don't want to cooperate, and this is a hard question, should they be made deals they can't refuse?
	Well, I think first they should be made deals that they can refuse and won't because it's in their self-interest.
	Most nations of the world have signed on to a nuclear non-proliferation treaty.
	Many nations have stated they would sign a comprehensive test ban treaty, but it is our own Senate.
	It is our own U.S.
	Senate that is the major funding block to a comprehensive test ban treaty.
	And, you know, who has the most to lose if the bomb proliferates?
	We're a sitting duck.
	The United States is a sitting duck.
	We have so many primary targets.
	Sure.
	It's in our interest to limit the proliferation of these weapons because we're the most vulnerable, you know, to this kind of attack.
	Take India and Pakistan, the countries you mentioned.
	Do you think they would be receptive now to a comprehensive ban?
	Well, initially India has been a big stumbling block, even though most people remember Gandhi.
	Hindu nationalism has pretty much taken over Indian politics and they want to beat their chest and call for a Hindu bomb.
	Precisely.
	And the Pakistanis want a Muslim bomb.
	Precisely.
	And pretty soon everyone's going to have their own personal bomb, a Scientology bomb or a Buddhist bomb.
	And where does it end?
	You know, it ends, of course, in a nuclear accident, or perhaps by design, or by anger.
	And that's the fear, you know, that one little match could set this off.
	And we're still in the early stages of nuclear proliferation, but you see it happening now.
	You know, Pakistan is a very poor nation.
	It can barely feed itself, right?
	And they have atomic bombs, perhaps on the order of, you know, 20 to 30 atomic bombs.
	And that's not, that's not very comforting.
	Do you think, doctor, do you think, doctor, that if an accident would occur, horrible as it would be, it would move the world toward a true comprehensive ban?
	It may take that.
	You know, we humans really don't move off our butt until a disaster happens.
	And then we say, my God, it was obvious.
	Why didn't we do anything beforehand, right?
	That's right, that's right.
	And people often say that humanity is like a balloon looking for a needle, right?
	It's just waiting to burst.
	Except the balloon says, nah, it can't happen.
	I mean, you know, I've been inflating for a long time.
	There's no needles out there.
	And, uh, the bubble could burst.
	It doesn't take much to, to deflate, um, you know, all our, our Pollyanna-ish optimism about, uh, maintaining nuclear weapons without an accident.
	I think sooner or later it may take a big accident with people dying, unfortunately, to shock, to shock the world, to initiate the process of disarmament.
	That's quite a thing to think about.
	All right.
	Wes for the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Kaku.
	Good morning.
	Dr. Kaku?
	Yes.
	This is Reverend Mother Gabriela from the Big Pine Island of Hawaii.
	Mm-hmm.
	And first off, first question, do you have a regular mail address for computer-deprived people that don't have computers?
	No.
	Well, you can write the City University of New York, New York, New York, 10031.
	Okay, thank you.
	Now my real question.
	I imagine you've read Immanuel Velikovsky?
	That's right.
	I've perused his work.
	Department, CUNY, New York, New York, 10031.
	OK, thank you.
	Now my real question.
	I imagine you've read Immanuel Velikovsky.
	That's right.
	I've perused his work.
	And his theories about that there were global catastrophes in historical times, like 1500 to 1600 BC, 1100 BC,
	and that these were caused by extraterrestrial agents.
	identifies them as Mars and Venus.
	And this seems to dovetail into Dr. Tom Van Flandern's exploding planet hypothesis about Mars.
	Do you have any thoughts on that?
	Well, in that work, he thought that Venus was a comet that stabilized in its orbit around the Sun.
	But a comet is nothing but a dirty snowball.
	They're only about 20 miles across.
	Venus is the size of the Earth.
	It's literally a twin of the Earth.
	By using computers, we can backtrack the motion of the planet for thousands of years.
	Newton's laws of motion are that accurate.
	And if you backtrack the motion of the planets for thousands of years, you don't find them bumping into each other, you don't find them causing Noah's flood, you don't find them causing the parting of the Red Sea, and so on and so forth.
	Now, I think, however, the legacy of when worlds collide is interesting, because we are now more receptive to asteroid impacts.
	And devastations on geologic timescales, where asteroids, we think, did in fact kill off the dinosaurs and kill off the Chilobites as well.
	So I think one of the legacies of that work is that we're more accepting now of astronomical explanations for geologic catastrophes.
	Well, shouldn't we go to Mars, try and figure out what happened to Mars?
	It used to have water and air.
	That's right.
	They, in fact, were tropical before the Earth became tropical.
	We were quite hot when Mars cooled down to be tropical, and that's why some people think that DNA started first on Mars, because Mars was the first to have temperate, warm climates with lots of oceans and ideal conditions of life.
	When the Earth was still too hot to have life, And if you look at the record, life starts very quickly after the Earth has a stable ocean and the age of meteors ends.
	Once meteor impacts no longer hit the Earth and dry up the oceans and boil them off, DNA can start.
	And DNA starts very soon after the age of meteors ends on the Earth.
	And so some people like Fred Hoyle, astronomer Fred Hoyle, have stated that it's too good to be true.
	You know, DNA just pops into existence as soon as the age of meteor ends.
	That's why some people would lean toward a panspermia theory of some sort.
	That we were seeded.
	Seeded by Mars, who knows for sure.
	I keep an open mind about these things.
	I mean, who knows?
	We need more data, really.
	We have to send more robots to Mars.
	I was about to ask you, Dan Golden recently, head of NASA, said that he now would like
	to send men to Mars within 10 years.
	How do you feel about that?
	Too much money?
	It's too much money and it's too dangerous.
	You know, when Dan Quayle first proposed that, estimates were $500 billion.
	That's $500 billion.
	That's more than the gross domestic product of many nations put together.
	And it's dangerous.
	You know, humans in outer space, after one year, lose so much bone mass and muscle mass that we can barely crawl out of our space capsule.
	When the Russians come out of the Mir space station after a year in orbit, they're like babies.
	They can barely crawl out of their space capsule.
	A mission to Mars takes two years.
	By the time they reach Mars, they may be weaklings.
	They may have suffered enormous damage due to bone loss and muscle mass loss and cosmic rays and micrometeorites.
	It's dangerous!
	But gee, that would suggest space travel just isn't for us.
	I think we should wait.
	Wait for the price of space travel to come down.
	In my book, Visions, I have a whole chapter on space travel in the next 100 years.
	The next generation of spacecraft are the reusable launch vehicles that use carbon resins and very lightweight materials And the cost of space travel will go down by a factor of 10.
	It costs about $800 million for every space shuttle mission.
	Imagine John Glenn made out of solid gold.
	Imagine the space shuttle made out of solid gold.
	That's the cost of a space shuttle mission.
	These are enormously expensive things, okay?
	And once we have reusable carbon resin hulls for these reusable launch vehicles, then the cost will go down by a factor of 10.
	Well, it won't be as expensive as gold, ounce for ounce.
	Okay, so we've got good spacecraft, but what about the wasting away of humans who spend a lot of time in space?
	Yeah, that's gonna be a big problem.
	And the fuel is only enough for a one-way trip.
	And that's why some people have said that they should, you know, go to Mars and create rocket fuel on the way back.
	That would give them an incentive to set up a factory on Mars because there's no fuel.
	There's no fuel to come back.
	It's only a one-way trip.
	I think there's too many bugs.
	And all we have to do is wait a few more decades until the technology of reusable launch vehicles kicks in, before we have more dependable rockets that don't blow up on the launch pad.
	You know, 1% of our booster rockets blow up on launch, you know that?
	That's true, yes. 1%!
	When the Challenger blew up, some people said, well, right on schedule.
	You know, the American public doesn't understand this.
	Would you ride in a rocket ship that has a 1% chance of blowing you to kingdom come?
	I wouldn't do it.
	You gotta be an Air Force pilot, a former Air Force pilot, to have, you know, courage to go on the space shuttle.
	Yeah, you're sitting on a potential bomb.
	Yeah, I mean, you know, 2 million pounds of thrust could send you to kingdom come.
	So that's why I say wait.
	Wait.
	All right.
	Better send robots instead.
	All right.
	First time calling a line, you're on the air with Dr. Kaku.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Art?
	Yes.
	Am I on the air?
	You are.
	Wow.
	Dream come true, man.
	I can't believe it.
	This is Sean Cohen from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan.
	Hi, Sean.
	Hi.
	I know you guys aren't really talking about this anymore.
	It's more on the theoretical side, but I'm a philosophy student here at the U of S, and it's regarding the notion of multiple universes that the good doctor was talking about there.
	And the question I always have when people start talking about that sort of thing is, when you talk about multiple universes, you have to ask, like, where are they, basically, to put it simply.
	And it's a two-part question.
	If the answer is simply that they're over there, essentially, that they're located spatially in relation to where we are, Then I think it's a misnomer that, like, when I consider the word universe, it seems to me that it encompasses all of being, you know?
	And if you're going to say that there's another universe just over there, I would say that, all in all, that's just one smaller part of the greater universe.
	And the second part is, I have a feeling, and I often talk to physicists about this sort of thing, and I get the answer that the parallel universes are actually taking place simultaneously with ours in the same space.
	And I was wondering, it seems to me that you would run into some problems dealing with, say, two objects occupying the same space at the same time.
	I was wondering if you could maybe enlighten us a little bit about that.
	Okay, fine.
	If I have two parallel sheets of paper, one right on top of the other, I could have two universes that are very complete, the people living on them like cookie men on a frying pan, and they would be basically in two parallel universes that can't reach each other.
	So they would say, well, where is the parallel universe?
	I can go everywhere on this sheet of paper and never bump into another universe, so this multiverse idea is a bunch of idiocy.
	Well, that's because you have to go into hyperspace.
	In hyperspace, you can stack as many universes as you want, and that's where these multiverse universes live.
	If we are a 3-dimensional bubble floating in 10-dimensional hyperspace, or no, 11-dimensional hyperspace, Then our rockets cannot reach this other universe.
	The only way to reach these other universes would be to wormholes.
	And then wormholes would require fantastic amounts of energy, 10 to the 19 billion electron volts, to open up a hole in space.
	And, you know, we're too primitive to do that.
	So if you ask the question, where are they?
	It's like a bug on a balloon saying, where are the other balloons?
	The bug can go anywhere on the balloon and say, well, I don't see anybody.
	There's nobody out there.
	There's just this one balloon.
	And meanwhile, there could be millions of balloons out there.
	In fact, there's a TV program called Sliders, which talks about opening up wormholes
	between parallel universes.
	In the very first episode of Sliders, a boy reads a book and gets the idea.
	That book is my book.
	That's hyperspace.
	He's reading hyperspace in the first episode of Sliders.
	So they do, in some sense, occupy the same space.
	But it's in hyperspace.
	It's in the other dimension.
	In H.G.
	Wells' famous novel, The Invisible Man, the Invisible Man was blown in an explosion a few inches off our universe.
	So, think of a tabletop with a man living just an inch off the surface.
	He would be invisible.
	The people on the tabletop could not see this invisible man floating just inches above the tabletop.
	He'd be floating in the fourth dimension.
	And that was the origin of invisibility in H.G.
	Wells' famous novel, The Invisible Man.
	That's why he was invisible.
	Well, Doctor, we're out of time.
	And I'm out of time.
	And it has been, I cannot tell you, over now, the years, actually, having you on the program, such a pleasure.
	You're such a treat.
	I want to thank you for being here tonight.
	Thank you for being part of my final program on the air.
	Well, thank you.
	It's been a wild ride, and it's been a lot of fun.
	And that's what science is all about.
	That's right.
	Doctor, you take care, and I'm sure we will touch one another one way or another in the future.
	That's right.
	We will.
	Take care, my friend.
	Okay.
	Good night.
	All right.
	Well, listen.
	I told you all that I'm not good At goodbyes, and I'm not.
	And that is why I prevented callers from saying goodbye to me.
	I made that a condition of their getting on the air with Dr. Taku, that they don't break into goodbyes from me, because I don't... I don't know how to handle it, and... I also don't know how, in words, to sum up the pleasure of such a long career On the air.
	I don't have words for that.
	And since I don't have words for it, I better not try, huh?
	In other words... In other words, there's nothing to say.
	Literally nothing to say.
	Except goodbye.
	Thank you all for being here for all this time.
	Anybody I may have missed, we're gonna repeat the first hour where I sort of stumbled through trying to say thank you and goodbye and all that sort of stuff.

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