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Feb. 17, 2000 - Art Bell

02:43:00

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Katia Romanoff, Lauri Quinn Loewenberg, Lawrence Notts - Dead Spirits and Bizarre Dreams

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	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from the 17th of February, 2000.
	From the high desert and the great American southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning, wherever you may be across this great land of ours, stretching from the Hawaiian and Tahitian island chains out west eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to the bowl, and worldwide on the internet, this It's Coast to Coast AM and I'm Art Bell and in a moment we're going to tell you a ghost story.
	There are two gentlemen in West Virginia who are going to tell you what's going on back there right now.
	Not something that happened in the past, something going on right now.
	So all of that directly ahead and then we'll talk about dreams a little bit later.
	Because as you know, I've been having some pretty weird ones.
	We've got a lot to do tonight, so in a moment we get underway in West Virginia.
	Sound of thunder.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM.
	from the 17th of February 2000.
	Alright now, we're about to go to West Virginia because I received the following, in part the following
	email.
	My friend, Lawrence, has an entity or entities now in his house.
	They touch him.
	They create chaos at night.
	But not every night.
	I've had, personally, that's a writer of this fax, three experiences with it, or them, myself, while watching TV, playing cards.
	And the first time I visited his house.
	We're old friends.
	We go back to grade school together.
	Only recently got together for motorcycle rides on Sundays.
	And so, without taking you through this second-hand, which, you know, there's much more obviously in the email, I called these two gentlemen, and here they are, and I want to be sure it's okay to use your last names before I use them.
	Lawrence with me.
	Good morning, Lawrence.
	Yeah, that'll be fine.
	Okay, your name then is Lawrence Knotts, right?
	Right.
	And where are you, Lawrence?
	I'm located in Barber County, West Virginia.
	West Virginia.
	All right.
	And your friend, Sonny.
	Sonny, are you there?
	Yes, I am.
	Okay.
	And where are you?
	How far away?
	Oh, about five miles.
	Nestorville.
	Five miles away.
	All right.
	What I heard earlier today When I talked to you, Lawrence, I thought was horrifying.
	You said, you told me, I guess you listen to me at night because you can't sleep at night anyway, is that right?
	True.
	You can't sleep?
	The signal's only occasional at my location.
	You told me things, entities, something, even would go so far as to gouge at your eyes?
	Correct.
	Alright.
	How long has this been going on, Lawrence?
	Approximately three years.
	Three years.
	You've been living in a haunted house for three years.
	How did it begin?
	Well, I had sold some piece of timber that had an Indian grave on it, and the week I Something showed up in my house.
	Yeah, I inherited the property and I sold the timber off of it.
	Right.
	You mean like land with timber?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I inherited the property.
	Yes sir.
	And I sold the timber off of it.
	Oh, so in other words, you still own the property, but you allow them to cut the timber.
	Right.
	Gotcha.
	One week later, it begins.
	Yeah.
	What began to happen?
	Well, first of all, I was laying in bed.
	Had my left arm sticking out over the edge of the bed.
	Relaxing and woke up.
	May I stop you and ask you, are you married?
	No, I'm divorced.
	You're divorced, alright, so you live alone?
	I do now.
	The problem, I did have my mother living with me and then this thing got to attacking her and she left.
	Messed with my girlfriend and she took off.
	Messed with my daughters and they took off.
	Oh my god, well this is really uh...
	Uh, ruined your life then, hasn't it?
	It's made it very trying.
	Alright, anyway, so here you are a week later, your hands hanging off the bed, which a lot of people do when they're asleep.
	Were you awake or asleep?
	I was definitely awake.
	Definitely awake.
	I just laid down, three minutes of laying down, and I was definitely awake.
	And what happened?
	Something grabbed my arm, felt like a person's hand grabbed my, grabbed me by the wrist.
	And I immediately took my right hand and my left hand was laying out over the edge of the bed and I took my right hand and tried to grab what had me.
	With no avail.
	me. And no avail. Natural reaction, yeah. That's what you try to do. Of course, you
	reach right around immediately and you couldn't grab anything? Like you know what, grab...
	I didn't start nothing with my right hand. Was the pressure still on your left hand?
	And that's it.
	It released when I grabbed for it.
	It released off my left hand.
	Alright.
	My left wrist.
	Alright.
	It was kind of then, hello there.
	I'm here.
	Yeah.
	Something like that?
	It didn't speak at that time.
	It didn't make no noises at that time.
	But I got up and went through the house and checked everything.
	And everything was peaceful and quiet.
	So I could shoot a bit.
	I went back to bed.
	Decided, well, I'll throw the other arm out on the other side of the bed and see what happens.
	Yeah.
	And something grabbed it on the other side of the bed.
	that I'd have been scared you know what-less and so I wouldn't have done
	that but you did that you put the other arm out yeah pretty gutsy and something
	grabbed it on the other side of the bed okay and then my fright level went through the roof
	but I got thinking just a second maybe this is something good a good spirit
	I'm a God-fearing man and I believe in the Bible and the things it says.
	I thought maybe it was a messenger from God.
	Lawrence, how old are you?
	49.
	Are you working?
	49. 49. Are you working or? I'm currently disabled. You're disabled. Alright. And you obviously have some independent
	means, I guess, property, money left to you by relatives, that kind of thing. So you're okay.
	Yeah.
	Alright, so then what?
	I mean, what next?
	Where did this go?
	Three years is a long time.
	Yeah, well, I thought maybe it was good.
	I said, if you're good, touch my hand and grab me by the arm.
	Touched my hand, grabbed me by the arm again, slid right down to my wrist and stopped.
	I said, well, if you're definitely bad, hit me on the hand.
	He hit me on the hand three times.
	He hit you on the hand?
	Three times.
	I say he'd be, I don't know, who the heck knows if it's he, or maybe he'd be... Well, it, you know, it covered everything.
	But, uh, it, uh, I nicknamed it Taz after a while.
	Taz?
	You called the ghost Taz?
	Yeah.
	Because it would make... It would do anything it didn't like.
	It would make grumbling noises like that little cartoon character the kids watch.
	Grumbling noises?
	Yeah.
	Sort of modeled to where you couldn't understand.
	It sounded like it might have been either Indian or Latin or something, but it wasn't.
	English.
	Oh, I see.
	Okay, not English.
	Not English.
	And I, by trial and error, went along for a while, and by trial and error, during the lightning storm, I realized it was giving me fits all night long and trying to yank me out of bed and pull my hair and all kinds of crazy stuff.
	What now?
	Yank you off the bed?
	Yeah, he actually kicked, or done something to the bed.
	Threw me and the mattress both halfway off once.
	Good Lord!
	Now, a lot of people, obviously, you know Lawrence, are going to say, this guy's crackers.
	That's going to be some of the reaction out there in the audience.
	And that's why I had your friend come on tonight.
	The fellow who contacted me, Sonny.
	Let's break the story for a second.
	Sonny?
	Yes.
	You know Lawrence is telling the truth, don't you?
	Well, yes, now.
	First, I was out there with the Cracker people, maybe.
	We traveled together for a while, and he kept talking about it and everything, and I hadn't had any experience, and then I did.
	What happened?
	Well, we had taken the 98 summer to ride bikes on Sundays, And I had recently went up to a flea market up at Elkins and bought a nice leather hat.
	And I never, I never took it off except to eat and everything.
	It was my favorite hat.
	But I went down there on a Sunday evening and he had the family in and I just was speaking with him this afternoon and he said, well, that was a family reunion going on.
	And that was the aftermath of it.
	I went into the house because I didn't go to his house.
	And all the summer I did not go to his house because of that.
	And I'm a God-fearing man.
	I went down there and he had some people down there and he'll tell you the story about it, but a person I hadn't seen for a long time, Kenny and his wife, since high school.
	So I left the house and a couple days later I went, what the heck did I do with that hat?
	And I left it down there.
	Now that might be a mundane thing for someone, oh you just bought a hat, you've left it there.
	But something drew me to the house that evening, I don't know why, I left the hat.
	So the following Saturday I called and his mother answered the phone and I said, I asked her about this thing.
	She said, well something really did happen that Sunday night, really terrible.
	And I said, well I need my hand.
	I said, you haven't ever had any experiences about this, his mother Orpha.
	And she had.
	And she said it went into her legs and done some other things with the grandchildren and everything.
	And so I got kind of nervous and I went down to the preacher down here and had a couple crosses anointed and carried one in my pocket and left one on top of the bed just To be safe.
	Maybe that's overly safe, but you know, if you believe in one spirit, you've got to believe in good and bad.
	You do what you believe.
	Yeah, you can.
	I have no problem with that.
	So you armed yourself.
	I armed myself.
	I went back and got my hat.
	That was the first experience that I figured out later that had to do something, because they can play mind games.
	And I found that out.
	Did you ever observe any of the goings-on of the sort that Lawrence is telling us about.
	Well, he showed me two nights of videos in one night, if you understand that.
	He showed me two videotapes of a lengthy time when he was retiring, and he showed me the first one, and these are lengthy, and they're very boring.
	I hate to say this, Lawrence, but they're very boring.
	Well, he was probably videotaping himself in bed.
	Yes, he was.
	That's very boring to watch that.
	Yeah.
	And the first one, I watched the bed move up and down, and I said, hey, that's the auto-focus doing that.
	Trouble was, the only portion of the bed would move slowly up and down, and nothing was causing the focus to move.
	Nothing else could.
	Usually you can hear the mechanical part of the camera doing that.
	Of course.
	And it wasn't.
	So the next film... Well, moreover, more importantly, if the only part of the picture that was moving was the bed up and down, not the whole picture, then you've got a legitimate shot.
	Right.
	The next one that he showed me was, you had to look very closely, but the thing was moving over across him and he was talking.
	Wait a minute, wait a minute.
	The entity was moving?
	Well, whatever you call it, because it was fuzzy on the film.
	This man, I've known him for a long time.
	What do you mean by fuzzy?
	You mean like sort of... It made the bed out of focus, where it was moving.
	Where it was moving?
	Oh, really?
	Yeah, about triple the size of a basketball.
	Lawrence, you didn't tell me you had videotape evidence.
	I hadn't got that far yet.
	I see.
	When you watched all this, Sonny, how did you react?
	Well, by the end of it, of course I was surprised, but I was also very tired.
	So it took a while to kick it in.
	So the next week when we went riding, we discussed it at the place we stopped to dine.
	And it spooked me out.
	But the second time was most recently, probably about two months ago.
	I was down there and we was watching something.
	I don't know.
	I like science fiction.
	I like action movies.
	And we were watching something.
	And I was sitting there and all of a sudden in my right nostril, I jumped up and Lawrence said, what's wrong?
	And I was trying to remove something from my nose.
	And I know that sounds gross, but do you know those worms?
	I guess, I don't know if they're in the Western United States or not.
	They call them a woolly worm.
	I don't know the scientific name for them.
	Often have black on them and different stripes of brown and some people say you can tell the length of the season.
	Are you talking about these worms with little tiny legs?
	Or with no legs at all?
	Well, they're a very spiny fur on them and when you hold them they curl up.
	Oh God, yes, I know what you're talking about.
	Okay, well anyway, that's what it felt like was in my right nostril immediately.
	Didn't crawl up there or anything, just immediately was there.
	And, uh, I, uh, my eyes were watering.
	I, I made it to the bathroom and I tried to remove this thing by every means which you can feel imaginable.
	And I sounded awful in there and everything.
	And so I just excused myself and I left because I was told not to entertain or identify anything like that if it was evil.
	Just don't talk to it, just leave.
	So I left.
	That was about two months ago.
	And only about two weeks ago, I was sitting, we was playing cards and my girlfriend, John, was there.
	And I smoke a cigar, and on occasion cigars can burn your eyes.
	Yeah.
	Well, in a certain way they burn your eyes, but they don't feel like a pin pricking right straight into your eye.
	No, no, no.
	And this is what happened to my left eye first, and within a matter of seconds, my left eye, then my right eye.
	And it hurt at that time when it felt like it pricked my eye.
	Like somebody was putting a pin in your eye?
	Yes.
	And then it just quit.
	It wasn't something that stayed there because everybody has pains in their eyes on occasion.
	And this wasn't a normal thing.
	That was the third occasion.
	I don't know and I still wouldn't identify it.
	Only last week, my girlfriend, John, she wanted to leave early.
	She got spooked, so we left early.
	And I don't know, but... Sounds like Lawrence has lost just about everybody close to him in his life over this thing.
	Is that... Well, there might... I kept trying to find out about a professor, a woman that was a professor up here at West Virginia University had died.
	After a time that I think I might have a story wrong, but these people that were there that Sunday that I left my hat.
	Yes.
	He'll have to tell you a story because I don't want to tell it second handed.
	All right.
	So I hope you understand the reason I wanted to bring you on, Sonny, was so that the people understood what Lawrence is saying is known to be true by more than just Lawrence, because, you know, incredible stories An incredible proof and all that sort of thing and you guys are eyewitnesses, so what you have said and what you have done for Lawrence as he continues the story is very important, Sonny.
	Do you have more you want to add or is that about it and should I go to Lawrence?
	You should go to Lawrence at this time because he's got some amazing things.
	Alright.
	Sonny, thank you.
	Thank you very much on behalf of Sonny and myself, I mean Lawrence and myself and we'll be back with Lawrence.
	So, Sonny, thank you.
	Alright, thank you.
	All right, Lawrence, you stay on the line.
	We'll be right back.
	Three years.
	I don't know if I'd stay in that for three years.
	How about you?
	This is Premier Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
	Thanks for watching.
	Thanks for watching.
	I'm sorry.
	When the ocean took and the birds anew, and dressed in ribbons fair.
	When hours come, the breathless moon, in the moving of the night
	The shadows of the trees appear, amidst the lantern light We've been traveling all the night, and sometime I say
	Be it sight, sound, smell, or touch, there's something inside that we need so much
	The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sound, or the strength of an oak when it moves deep in the ground.
	The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
	Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
	To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing.
	To have all these things in our memories sore.
	And they use them to help us survive And they use them to help us survive
	I wish you saw, take this place, on this trip, just for me Ride, take a free ride, take a glimpse, of the sea, it's my
	dream I will not take the years, sweat so hard just to ride
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from the 17th of February, 2000.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from the 17th of February, 2000.
	And Lawrence Knotts in West Virginia, who lives now alone in a home where he's lost
	everything because of an entity, because of a ghost, because of I don't know what it is.
	But I am sufficiently convinced that his friend examined physical evidence that obviously we're going to ask for a copy of, you can bet.
	and we're going to now hear the rest of the story from Lawrence Orr in a moment, so stay right there.
	Sound of a jet taking off.
	Music.
	Alright, back now to my guest, Lawrence in West Virginia.
	Okay, Lawrence, we're back on the air again.
	Okay.
	All right.
	I didn't know you had videotapes, Lawrence.
	Is there a way we can get copies of those?
	Well, probably.
	I don't have nothing to copy amongst myself.
	Okay, maybe you can work it out with Sonny or somebody else, because obviously we'd love to have copies.
	This is real important stuff.
	Now, for you, I guess a horror.
	You lost your mom.
	She left.
	Your fiancé, you said, left.
	That's a horror in itself.
	Tell me something, Lawrence.
	Why haven't you left?
	I've lived here for 28 years and I've built the place up myself.
	Oh, you built the house?
	Yeah.
	If this had happened to me someplace else, I'd have been gone before the sun rose.
	I hear that.
	But when you're at home and you're used to having a home and raised and the home's important,
	it just seemed like not an option to give up on the home.
	Most people said you ought to leave and stuff.
	So you've talked to a lot of people about this.
	Yes, I have.
	Your mom, for goodness sake, what specifically do you think scared her so much she finally left?
	I mean, why?
	Well, I'd experienced it being them things that didn't like light, because during a lightning storm, lightning flashed and said, let me see if you can go under the bed and raise the bed up and down.
	So not just your bed, but your mom's, too?
	Well, it didn't get to her for a while.
	When it did, she was out of here the next day.
	See?
	That'd be me, too, Lawrence.
	I mean, I'm sure you're a great child and your mother loves you, but when my bed went into the air, I'd be out the door.
	This thing had the capabilities of inflicting pain on you.
	Like, feel like a charley horse in your leg?
	Yes.
	And I found out what it had been doing to me and I told my mother how to break it if it got a hold of you to shine a bright flashlight over it and it couldn't take it and release its hold on you.
	So I told her and she thought it was, she kept her bright flashlight in the bed with her and one night it did and she had to use the flashlight because it felt like it was going to tear all the bones out of her leg and she shined the flashlight on it.
	And it backed off, which that's a pattern I've been using, using bright light against it, to try to fight the thing with, because there ain't a whole lot you can do to them.
	Monkey from hell, I can't discourage it.
	And that's when she left?
	Yeah, the next day she packed up and moved out.
	She was the last one.
	The last one.
	So then even before that, you said, was it your fiancée?
	Yeah, it had messed with her.
	This gal was living in the house with you.
	She was living beside a man.
	She was over here a long time, but that thing messed with her.
	She moved out.
	What did she say to you?
	Was it the same thing?
	Was it rocking her bed?
	she moved out. What did she say to you? Was it the same thing? Was it rocking her bed?
	Or your bed, collectively? The main thing it was doing to her was causing her pain in
	different parts of her body.
	Even when I wasn't in the room or something, or even if I was in the room, she'd say, ouch, quit pinching me.
	And I said, I ain't pinching you.
	She said, don't worry, something got a hold of me.
	And a few rounds of that, she went to another territory.
	She said she might come back and see me someday.
	During daylight hours, but she wasn't going to let the sun set on her hair again.
	Not in the darkness?
	Not in the dark, cause they, them things was really active in the darkness.
	I'll tell ya, I finally got rid of one, and I got a girl that, uh, exorcised it out of the house.
	One?
	One.
	So you now believe there are, what, more, there's more than one?
	There was two sent back to replace it.
	She told me that she had been learning this exorcism, and said, now I've got to warn you that you may get two back in place of one.
	If I do defeat it and get it out of here, there'll be some more, could be some more receptory places, but I don't know.
	Only time will tell.
	So she came, she did an exorcism, that spirit left, and two more arrived?
	Yes, it did.
	Uh, and when they arrived, they arrived very violently.
	How so?
	Uh, all the doors started opening and slamming in the house, and doors started moving.
	Furniture was moving around, and I tried to go to bed, and the mirrors were shaking, rattling on the walls.
	The walls was rattling.
	I tried to go to bed.
	It just felt like a pack of dogs jumped on me and started biting me.
	Holy smokes, Lawrence!
	Um, and you were using the, uh, you tried to use the light?
	Uh, I used the flashlight.
	I did just back off of it.
	I hooked up a 750,000 candle power spotlight for open air, or open country spotting.
	And, uh, I just hooked that up to bed and I used it.
	It had a lot of power.
	And, uh, I flipped it over back and forth in the room and, uh, and they would back off.
	But as soon as I drop the night off, I'm going to have to start again.
	How, Lawrence, do you sleep at night?
	Well... In other words, it's like they're waiting for you, and you can hold them off, but if you go to sleep, you're not holding them off, right?
	Well, right.
	They want to give you problems.
	I've found things that discourages them, but at present I have a You bet.
	I have two party strobes, you know those strobe lights for parties?
	I have one of them on each side of the bed that I turn on when I go to bed and I put
	a blindfold on so I can sleep.
	Those things do not like a strobe light so that maybe five or ten minutes is all they
	will be there.
	But one comes between two o'clock and three o'clock in the morning.
	And the other one usually shows up about ten o'clock because these are the ones that like
	to poke your eyes so you can't watch television.
	soon.
	Actually, physically poking you in the eyes, kind of like Sonny described happening to him when he... Yeah, that's a regular occasion for me.
	Regular to be poked in the eyes?
	Yeah, virtually every night, Sonny.
	Every night?
	And they raise my bed up and down.
	The new thing that they started recently was scratching the bed.
	Scratching the bed you're on?
	Yeah, scratching it and then scratching the wall beside it.
	Usually I've got pretty good nerves around them, but that frightens me.
	Lawrence, have they ever left physical evidence of what they've done, other than what you have on videotape, which is really something you're to be commended for doing?
	What drove you, by the way, to finally do that, to set up videotape?
	Well everyone that I've talked to, well not everyone, but the majority of people I've talked to thought I was losing my mind.
	This is not a rude question, but did you ever ask yourself the same question?
	Any time during all this?
	Yeah, but when I started messing with other people, doing things to my daughters and One girl wasn't no relative to us.
	She was here one night.
	She ran her mouth about it.
	I told her, this thing, that's when Taz was still here.
	Before he'd been cast out.
	I said, Taz is up and about.
	He always pulled the hair above my right ear when he wasn't making noise around.
	I went out of state and stuff.
	When the sun went down, I had to pull my hair.
	I tried three different states.
	Pulling your hair?
	Yeah, he had pulled my hair above my right ear to let me know he was there.
	That was his trademark before he'd start any of his stuff.
	But the thing of it is, they've got so much static electricity that I I took a compass.
	That girl that took the one out here said that there's a possibility I might present this much activity here that she wouldn't come back and work on it anymore because she said it caused her problems.
	You took a compass in there like an electromagnetic compass?
	Yeah.
	And she said to check out the house and around through the yard and see if there's a portal of hell around and said they're magnetic.
	I said, well, can't hurt nothing.
	I took it and checked down through the yard and around the house and through the house
	and it continued to point due north.
	But when I went to bed I decided to take it with me and just watch it and see if I could
	tell anything.
	And sure enough I could hear something coming down the hall, breaking the hall wall.
	And we got to my door and as soon as we stepped into my door that needle on that compass pointed
	towards that door.
	Directly at the door?
	Yeah.
	And something come around the bed and started shaking the left side of the bed and messing
	with the bed and coming up towards me.
	That needle followed it just like it was pointing to north only it ignored north and went to that thing.
	It has so much energy that the hair especially does.
	The hair will stand up on you and point towards you.
	You can feel them when they get close to you.
	Just like static electricity.
	I'm just drawing you.
	You can feel it.
	You can look at your hair and it'll be pointing in that direction.
	Good heavens to Betsy!
	So, the compass would indicate to you the direction the entity was moving, and there was so much static electricity, you're calling it, just your hair pulled just like the compass indicated?
	Yeah, yeah.
	And it has tremendous power.
	One night there was something come in there.
	A guy told me he had a ghost problem.
	He had a dog.
	A couple of dogs were chasing him until they got him out of the house.
	He got along alright.
	So I bought one of his dogs and put that in there.
	it actually would take that there is a good around through the house and i can't
	debate in their commitment really really
	but uh...
	eventually it helped me get
	did you know you have a lot of it is that we got caught up with the car
	The dog did?
	Yeah.
	I was about to ask, Lawrence, when the dog chased the entity, did the entity run from it or move from it?
	The first ones there did.
	But there was something came in once there.
	I called it the boss bugger.
	It came into the room and the dog was on the bed barking because the dog could hear him
	and the dog would go off and rip up and down through the hallway snapping and cracking
	his teeth at him.
	But anyway, this one night there was something with a lot of power that came there because
	I had the ceiling fan on and the dog was laying on the bed with me and I heard something in
	the hallway cracking and beating around and the dog raised up and started to bark and
	the ear just died in there.
	I had the ceiling fan on and I looked at the dog and his mouth was working but there wasn't nothing coming out.
	The ear just died.
	Something had too much power and killed the ear.
	I couldn't hear the dog barking and I couldn't hear the ceiling fan going.
	So in other words, this dog was obviously barking because that's what dogs do when they open their mouth but there was no sound coming out.
	Right.
	You couldn't hear no sound.
	And that really creeped me out.
	I grabbed my spotlight Yeah, better go on.
	My arms got tired and I kept switching arms until the thing finally left.
	But before it left, the dog, I coaxed him.
	The dog backed up towards me, towards my head.
	And I finally coaxed him into going after it and drove him over that way and told him to get it.
	And that thing grabbed the dog and drove it down the hallway.
	Threw the dog down the hallway?
	Threw the dog down the hallway.
	He wouldn't go under the couch.
	He wouldn't come back out.
	I understand how the dog feels, or felt.
	You say your dog was killed by a car?
	Yes.
	You think this entity had anything to do with that?
	I doubt so.
	So you think it just might have been a coincidence?
	Yeah, I think that was a coincidence.
	Their main gig is to stress you until you can't sleep.
	During the day they don't mess with you.
	And whenever you try to lay down and get some rest of the night, that's when they start
	to have some problems.
	I've got so I don't go to bed until after three o'clock, or after the monkey business
	is over with, and then I sleep until the next day, it's got my life turned to half a turn
	on the clock.
	Boy Lawrence, I don't know if I could go through what you're going through.
	It's still happening.
	Does it happen every day, every other day, once a week?
	No, it happens every night.
	Every night?
	Every night.
	Well, recently, I think last week it skipped one night.
	Maybe it was two nights last week it skipped, but that's the first time it's skipped since This stuff started three years ago.
	Probably doesn't make much difference to you, because you've got to assume it's there if it's there every other night.
	Yeah, so even when I don't get to shake in the bed, that thing can actually read your thoughts.
	Now, the Bible says, guard well your thoughts, because even your thoughts are heard in heaven.
	So, I thought that was a little bit extreme, but that thing, I can think if I'm laying in the bed, and I want to know if it's around.
	Lawrence, this is an important question.
	or something, but it's still there. All I have to do is just think,
	uh, monkey don't you shake the bed, and that bed will start up and down. I don't have to say
	nothing. All I have to do is just think it.
	And that thinking, hear your thoughts, just like if they was,
	just as if he was talking out loud.
	Lawrence, this is an important question. Have you given any consideration to whether this entity might, just,
	I'm just asking this, Lawrence, might be you?
	Well, you mean, that's it?
	it may be different but in other words as i guess you know telepathy you might
	be saying go ahead mentally shake the bed and it's it shakes a
	bed but does that mean leave open
	slightly the possibility that this power is coming emanating from
	it's not like a private i really don't think that it is because
	i found one thing anything that works on it.
	Okay, Lawrence, I'm going to have to hold you over.
	Can you stay on the air with me?
	Yeah, okay.
	Alright then, we're going to delay our coming up guests and we'll keep Lawrence on for a while.
	What you're hearing is obviously a real ghost story that's happening now in West Virginia and we'll get more of it When we get back in Melbourne.
	The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	More, somewhere in time, coming up.
	No, no, no, no, no.
	I'll tell you once more, before I get up and go.
	Don't bring me down.
	You want to stay out with your fancy friends.
	I'm telling you it's gotta be the end.
	Don't bring me down.
	No, no, no, no, no.
	I'll tell you once more, before I get up and go.
	Don't bring me down.
	And I'm telling the way from the crest of a way that's like magic.
	I'm sailing away, on the crest of a wave, pitch black magic.
	All rolling and riding and slipping and sliding, it's magic.
	And you, as you spin beside mine, you shall be free.
	Higher and higher, baby.
	It's over everything.
	It's a terrible thing to lose.
	It's a given thing.
	What a terrible thing to lose.
	Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	Good morning, everybody.
	We're in the middle of a ghost story, a real one.
	My guest is Lawrence Knotts.
	He's in West Virginia.
	He's disabled.
	He built the house that he lives in.
	He recently, well, I guess actually three years ago now, allowed a timber company to come in and cut the timber on his land, land he owns.
	But land which was Native American land, apparently, at one time.
	And immediately following that, he began to get haunted.
	And when I say haunted, I mean what he's had to say has been incredible.
	He would lay his arm off the bed and something unseen would grab it like another arm or hand grabbing you, grab hold of him.
	He tried it again, it happened again.
	I just can't encapsulate the entire thing, but it happened to his mother.
	She took off.
	It happened to his fiancée.
	She took off.
	I had Sonny Nestor in West Virginia, who's a friend of Lawrence's, on the air last hour, and he verified what Lawrence is telling me.
	Lawrence has had his eyes gouged, like people sticking pins in your eyes.
	Had his bed rise up off the floor?
	He's got videotapes of all of this.
	So, why is Lawrence there?
	Well, Lawrence built his house.
	It's his house.
	He's not going to leave.
	He had an exorcism performed.
	One spirit left the home, but two came back.
	Light seems to affect them.
	He's rigged up strobe lights.
	He's got You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM.
	finally they they excuse the expression gave up the ghost and left so we'll go
	back to Lawrence in West Virginia in a moment you're listening to art Bell somewhere in time tonight
	featuring coast to coast a.m. from the 17th of February 2000 this these now entities
	two of them are able to be tracked in two ways
	Lawrence has had a compass, and as these entities move about the room, the compass follows them.
	His dog, until the dog was killed, would chase these entities.
	The compass would follow them around the room, and the compass would just move around.
	His hair would stand up, moving in the direction of the entities.
	It's just an amazing story.
	This man is living with all of this right now.
	Lawrence, are you there?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	You had something you wanted to continue with when we broke at the hour.
	Yeah, you asked me a question there.
	I thought maybe it might be a mind thing.
	Yeah, your mind.
	Because you said you could suggest to it with your mind, mentally, shake the bed and the bed would start shaking.
	Yeah, well, the thing that was messed with other people, and when the exorcist came here that I invited, she had no trouble finding it.
	In the house, she could tell where it was at.
	The air would get real cold wherever it was at.
	If you got close to it, the air was real cold.
	So that happens too?
	Yeah.
	You can't see it, but if it wants you to know it's there, it'll start harassing you.
	It won't cut up to you.
	So with the exception of a couple of days, or every now and then, this has been happening to you every night for three years?
	Correct.
	Ever since you cut that wood?
	Yeah, well, yeah.
	It started before actually the timber cutting was done.
	It started the week that I sold the timber off of it.
	Oh, you mean when you signed the contract to have the timber cut?
	That's the way it started.
	You're pretty sure that was Native American land previous to your ownership?
	Yeah, I even... I was told there's Indian graves there, and you can see where they're at.
	The people that owned it back two or three generations ago.
	So in other words, this is not just Indian land.
	There's Indian... it's Indian burial ground.
	Yeah.
	They showed me... my family showed me where my uncle did it.
	I heard it off of where the Indian Graveyard was.
	Back in his recollection, the people that owned the land, he bought it off of some other people that owned the land a couple of generations down, but them guys, there were some boys in that family, and they went and dug them Indian Graves up.
	About four out of six of them died in a mental institution.
	For the six who dug these graves up on that land?
	Yeah.
	Holy mackerel, Lawrence.
	How old are you, Lawrence?
	I'm forty-nine.
	Forty-nine.
	During any of this, Lawrence, did you worry that you might get killed?
	Well, yes.
	It was frightful.
	After Todd Barker, I sort of tried to laugh it off, and he said, Take this as a joke, he said, these things when they show up, he said, they're more showed up in the United States this year than ever before, but he said, when they get started playing mind games with you, he said, they'll kill you.
	He said, it's not unusual to have several people killed where these things is at.
	And, uh, that's, that gave me a new outlook on things.
	And I said, well, what can I do to save myself?
	He said, I can't guarantee you nothing.
	But wear a cross.
	He said, everybody that messes with demon ghosts wears crosses.
	He said, I can't guarantee it won't keep you alive, but he said, that's my best advice to you.
	This is Clyde Barker saying this?
	Yeah.
	You're a religious man, Lawrence, aren't you?
	Right.
	What kind of background?
	I was a brethren and I switched over to Pentecostal.
	Pentecostal?
	Yeah.
	There's a lot of Pentecostals in the West Virginia area, huh?
	Right.
	So, what about your church?
	You must have gone to them.
	You must have gone to your church.
	Yeah, I did.
	That's the first place I went.
	I talked to my minister and asked if he had any experience with ghosts.
	He said no.
	I said, well, how about I've got one down here for sure and I'm going to need help to get it out of there.
	I thought maybe a simple exorcism would do the job.
	I had no idea how much problem I was going to have.
	I thought maybe a preacher came and prayed over the house and prayed through the house and what have you and ordered it out of there and it would stay out.
	Have these entities spoken to you?
	They make a noise.
	It sounds like a television or a radio on another room.
	And if you go to that room, it'll sound like the room you come out of.
	But I have had them get on each side of the bed and communicate back and forth with each other from both sides of the bed.
	Never anything directly said to you, though, that you understood, you know, as in English?
	No, just a mottled sound.
	It just sounds like something on the radio that you can't completely hear the words to.
	You can hear the tone, the voice tone, but you can't hear the detail.
	Lawrence, this is such an amazing story.
	Do you want to tell us what town you're in there, in West Virginia?
	Well, my address is Motesville.
	No, no, no.
	Give me your address.
	Just tell me what town you're in.
	Motesville.
	How do you spell that?
	M-O-A-T-S-V-I-L-L-E.
	I do it again slowly please.
	M is in Mary.
	Yeah.
	O. A. T. S. V. I. L. L. E. Moseville, West Virginia.
	All right.
	Small town.
	Yeah, community.
	And you live kind of in a rural area, woods all around you, timber all around you, that kind of thing, huh?
	Correct.
	How much land do you own there?
	What my house plots on is about eight acres.
	I own about 75 up on the home base that I inherited and that's where the graveyard is.
	And that's where the graveyard is and that's where the timber was cut, right?
	Yeah, I was pretty sure that they had something to do with it and I was out there deer hunting and something, felt like something slapped me.
	I didn't see nothing there.
	I said, hey, this has nothing to do with my goose problem.
	Slap me again.
	I was looking down there where the graveyard was at and a timber cutter cut a lot of trees
	into it and really trashed it up.
	I said, do you want that graveyard cleaned up?
	That thing slapped me twice right real quick and I said, I can understand that.
	So I took 17 truckloads of firewood out of that graveyard, took all the brush out of
	How long ago?
	That was last winter.
	I finished it last winter.
	And still it happens to you?
	nice and put up a permanent stainless steel sign. You did?
	Marketed as a graveyard. You did?
	When did you do this? How long ago? That was last winter. I finished it last winter. Last winter. And
	still it happens to you?
	Yeah, I was fairly certain that it would go away whenever I got that graveyard cleaned up.
	But it didn't?
	It didn't.
	Alright, what's the worst of what's happened to you?
	Eyes are gouged like needles being pushed into your eyes.
	You said your bed, you've got videotape of it coming up off the ground, moving.
	You've got videotape of this entity which is not quite visible, but you can sort of see the fuzz.
	You said on the videotape where it was moving, is that right?
	Like a mirage.
	Like a mirage?
	I don't see it.
	You can't get a detail or focus of it.
	No.
	Everything else in the room was in perfect focus but where that thing was at, the camera
	recorder couldn't take a picture of details where it was at.
	And is that essentially the same thing that you see with your eyes when you see it or
	do you see more?
	I don't see it.
	Oh, you don't see it at all?
	No.
	You just feel it?
	You just feel it.
	Even the Bible says that you can't see the spirit, just the results of it.
	I've never been able to see anything, not even a shadow or anything.
	Has it done any permanent physical harm to you?
	Well, the most thing it's done is probably scared ten years off my life.
	Scared ten years off your life.
	Because it is an exciting experience.
	But even though, you know, this is your house, you built it, I understand that, but at the time your mom leaves, at the time your fiancé leaves, by then your life's kind of falling apart around you over this thing.
	And it must take an awful lot of will or stubbornness, I don't know what you are, willful or stubborn or both, to stay there and I don't know what you're trying to do now.
	Make peace with it?
	Fight it out?
	What?
	Basically, I'm trying to outlast it.
	I'm in hopes it'll get dark and go away.
	I've been hoping that for quite a while, but I found something recently, in all honesty, that has helped me survive with it.
	And that is what?
	If it comes into the room and messes with the bed, if I start praising the Lord, it can't hurt me or nothing.
	It can't punch and gouge on me.
	It'll shake the bed, but it can't touch me as long as I'm praising the Lord.
	Has it left marks on you before?
	Yeah.
	Not real heavy ones, but just prints and stuff like where it grabbed you.
	You know how you squeeze something real hard and it'll leave red marks?
	Yes.
	I've had red marks and stuff left on me.
	And, uh, to be honest with you, I got some nerve pills.
	They helped me deal with it.
	You got some nerve pills?
	It really stresses your nerves to deal with something like that.
	Did you go to the doctor about this?
	Yeah.
	What did he say, Lawrence?
	Basically she said, listen tell me, well the doctor is a woman, but she said, well she said I can give you something to help relieve the stress in your life.
	She said I can give you medicine for that, but as far as medicine for that ghost problem you've got, they don't make nothing for that.
	But she said I can give you some stress relieving pills.
	That helps my nerves and helps keep me from getting my nerves shot so bad that my nervous system overloads or anything.
	I've come to the conclusion through time and experience that I just can't get no sleep before 3 o'clock.
	You know, he stays awake with lights, folks.
	We had some people join us at the top of this last hour.
	With lights, which will kind of keep these things at bay, but they're not gone, they're just waiting.
	Right.
	And if he allows darkness to occur, they start in on him.
	Now, I'll tell you something, Lawrence.
	I was talking to my wife, who knows something about this sort of thing, and she said, you're going to have to make peace with these Native Americans, with the spirits.
	Somehow.
	She suggested that you do a planting there as a gesture.
	You know, plant trees.
	I don't know.
	Trees.
	Something.
	I did that around the graveyard.
	Yeah, that's what I've just heard this last half hour.
	And so I'm a little bit unsure.
	I'm unsure of what to tell you to do.
	Um...
	I think I would like to see those videotapes.
	Bye.
	You know, to a lot of people, Lawrence, what you have on those tapes is evidence of either the survival of spirit after death, or maybe of evil personified in some sort of spirit.
	You know, I don't know how to put it, but in other words, you have very, very, very important evidence in the eyewitness testimony of your friend.
	I'm sure one thing, if he wondered where the Bible was written off from something like that, he won't have any trouble believing what the Bible tells him.
	Alright, my friend, listen.
	I'll tell you what.
	I'm going to give your number to somebody who can Okay.
	you with your permission uh... i'll do that all right
	Okay.
	okay you see about getting
	don't ever send me the original but send me a copy of those videotapes alright
	okay you have to pay attention to protect your things to know what
	what it is when it's coming up and stuff
	that's fine i can't tell you Your friend said it was mostly boring until it happened, so... Yeah.
	Yeah, you kind of outline for me where on the videotape to look for it, alright?
	Okay.
	Okay, Lawrence.
	We'll be in touch, and we're gonna have someone call you.
	Thanks.
	Okay, then.
	Okay, goodnight.
	This is Premier Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
	This is a test.
	This is a test.
	Or a fortress drawn with chains upon my feet You know that ghost is me And I will never be set free As long as I'm a ghost you can't see If I could read your mind, love What a tale your thoughts could tell Just like a paperback novel, the kind the drugstore sells.
	When you reach the part where the heartaches come, the hero would be me.
	The hero of the world.
	Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues, courtesy of Premier Networks.
	If you've been with us over the last hour and a half, you've heard a hell of a story of a haunting in West Virginia.
	You know, normally I'm so interested in this sort of thing that I would have offered to get on an airplane and go experience it.
	But what's going on there sounds so awful that I wouldn't do that.
	Despite curiosity, I'm not that curious.
	And what this man is going through, this hell this man is going through, I just, I don't know what to say, but maybe one of my guests coming up a little late does, and late gracefully, because I wanted to get Lawrence's entire story out.
	And so, Dr. Katya Romanoff, we'll call her Dr. Katya, holds a PhD in parapsychology, metaphysics, and world religion.
	She, along with Lori, would normally be here talking about dreams, and yes, we'll get to that.
	But, since she's got a PhD in parapsychology, why, obviously, she no doubt is going to have something to say about what you just heard over the last hour and a half, appropriately so.
	So I think that's the way we'll open up with the ladies in a moment.
	That's coming up next.
	Well, alright, we're gonna move forward now.
	That was some, uh, one hell of an hour and a half, I would say.
	I'm talking to a number of people, um, about this man's situation and I'm going to have somebody call him, uh, specifically who may be able to help out, uh, Evelyn Paglini, and she's in touch with us and maybe by now with him as well.
	But that's some story.
	I don't know that I would stay there.
	I could have stayed there.
	On the other hand, I don't know what you do.
	You build your own house.
	You have a lot of land there.
	You inherited the land.
	And you don't want to leave.
	Anyway, fortunately, we've got coming up Dr. Akacia.
	Lori, who ostensibly were here originally to talk about dreams, and we'll get to that, because there's some pretty weird stuff going on now in my life, that I want to ask about.
	Actually, that's why I called them, and we set the show up.
	But they heard at least the last 30 minutes of the last hour and a half, and Dr. Katja, welcome to the program.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi.
	Good.
	That was scary.
	Yep.
	Lori, are you there?
	I'm here.
	You're there, okay.
	Obviously, I want to get both of your impressions, but Dr. Katja, because you specialize in areas like this, just give me your impressions of what you heard and what you think and what this man might do.
	I've dealt with possessions, a few in my time, and exorcisms, only a few, but enough to be somewhat comfortable with the concept.
	But that scared me!
	I mean, I had I had goosebumps.
	That was frightening!
	He was obviously under acute psychological distress from this, and of course a depth psychologist would say it's his subconscious, he's projecting blah blah blah.
	But as a parapsychologist, I do believe that these entities exist.
	My advice to him... Listen, I asked him about that, but you've got to bear in mind, in the first hour, that which you didn't hear was A friend of his that lives a few miles away.
	They've known each other since, you know, early school days.
	His friend sent me the email.
	I brought his friend on the air.
	His friend saw this stuff happen.
	Wow.
	It even happened to his friend.
	See, he's got a witness.
	Like you said, it should be documented.
	Oh, he's got video tape, too.
	Geez.
	So... It sounds not so simple.
	Originally, I thought Just because he signed a contract to have the timber on the Native American land cut, that was a problem.
	And he said the problem started when he signed the contract.
	Right, I heard that.
	But, it's a lot worse than that apparently because it's burial ground and he said kids dug up Native American bodies.
	So, oh man, how do you get out of this one?
	My advice to him, and I get this from my half-brother who was listening to the program with me, and he's got Native American blood in him, he said he needs to get a shaman, a Native American medicine man, to make peace with these entities, to offer a bridge.
	The red man doesn't trust the white man, for obvious reasons, and a shaman could provide a bridge.
	He's trying to deal with it in the only frame he has, which is Christianity.
	That's a very valid frame of reference, but it's not enough.
	He needs to deal with them on their own terms and make peace.
	When something as serious as grave robbing occurs, it's sacrilege, it's iconoclasm, it's It's a desecration, you know, that's holy ground and it's been disturbed.
	So these entities are all stirred up.
	There have been studies, we would call this perhaps morphogenetic mind forms.
	There is no way, the laws of thermonuclear dynamics, there's no way to get rid of something.
	So for those who are out there who are skeptics and don't believe in ghosts and spirits, just think, there's nowhere to go For our thought processes, for our personalities, for our minds, so they can center and cluster around a sacred site like this, especially one that has the negative connotation of being disturbed.
	I'm curious, either one of you, why you think a dead spirit, I had some guests on last night who wouldn't agree there's any such thing as a dead Spirit.
	Right, right.
	Oh, did you hear last night's show?
	Yes, I heard part of it.
	Oh, okay, alright.
	The word dead spirit are almost an oxymoron because spirit is immortal.
	To my guest last night, these things would have been demons.
	Yes.
	He would say they're demons.
	Now, what do you really think they are?
	Demons?
	Actually, the spirits of the The Native Americans that were buried there?
	what is what is this man encountering native americans who have passed on have been disturbed and
	have unfinished business
	and so they have not been stirred up into the ether the gene pool
	mixed in and reborn uh...
	they are still a cluster of their original
	life form their thoughts whole spirit that
	almost as though it we were still living in the flesh, but it isn't.
	It's not a demon.
	Demons and angels are terms that we assign through the centuries as we grapple with these unseen entities, these clusters of living people that are still left behind even though they die.
	They have unfinished business.
	Alright.
	So they're not going to fade away.
	Alright.
	Compasses would follow them around the room.
	The dog would chase them.
	The room would get cold.
	These things would lift his bed off the floor, bouncing it back and forth, grab him, gouge his eyes.
	Right.
	See, these are all like electromagnetic disturbances.
	They can be measured.
	Just like the radio waves are invisible, but they're in your room right now helping you listen to the program.
	Obviously.
	These same invisible things are out there.
	It's very frightening.
	It's one of those good campfire stories to scare you.
	Well, you know what this whole situation reminds me of?
	The Winchester House.
	My wife mentioned that.
	You want to explain to people about Winchester?
	Now, Winchester is a man, was a man, who manufactured firearms.
	Hence the name, Winchester Rifle, right?
	Yes.
	What's the deal behind that?
	Well, after he died, His wife was, if I'm correct, she was being tormented by spirits.
	And she visited a medium who told her it was the spirits of all the people who had been killed by the rifles her husband manufactured.
	A lot of them Native Americans, no doubt.
	Unbelievable!
	When was, what year was this that Mrs. Winchester began to experience this?
	Do you know offhand, roughly?
	I'm thinking after the Civil War.
	After the Civil War?
	I could be wrong, but I think it was around that time.
	So to keep these spirits at bay, she began building this house with the money that was made from the Winchester Rifle Company.
	Right.
	And she just continued to build and build and build this house with stairs that led nowhere, doorways that would open into nothing.
	What was the idea?
	For the rest of her life.
	What was the idea?
	Why doorways to nowhere, halls to nowhere?
	To confuse the spirits.
	She lived in this house and she was hoping this would confuse the spirits.
	This is a true story.
	My wife told me this story during the last break and I thought, boy does this apply.
	You just brought it up, and this went on until... Until she died.
	Until she died?
	Mm-hmm.
	You can go visit the house today.
	It still exists?
	Yes.
	Where is it?
	It's in San Francisco.
	San Francisco.
	Wow.
	Um... Then, I mean, what do you say to this man?
	If she experienced this until the day she died, This is a 49-year-old man that we just talked to.
	You know, a disabled man who owns a lot of property.
	Built his own house.
	He actually built a house with his own hands.
	His mother's been run out.
	His fiancée has been run out.
	His life has been ruined.
	And he won't leave.
	So then what?
	There's only two options.
	He's got to make peace with it.
	Or go.
	If he continues this conflict, he's not going to get anywhere.
	That's the problem.
	Our two cultures, the white man, the Native American, has been in conflict for, what, 300 years now, and it's still not going away.
	So if he can somehow show them that he's a white man to be trusted, they could rest in peace.
	You see, they're not resting.
	They're not resting at all.
	They're making his life miserable.
	They're very active.
	Alright, how sure are you about this, Doctor?
	Again, the men I had last night would say this is absolute bunk.
	There's no such thing, because when we die, it's death.
	Good night, baby.
	Maybe there is another side, certainly they believe, with the Lord in heaven, I guess, but you're dead, you're dead.
	That's their very fundamentalist view.
	You know, they expressed it, they were very articulate, but they strongly hold that view, and you strongly, obviously, disagree.
	Now, there's just too much evidence of an unseen world, another realm overlapping our own, of which we move within, that disproves, I think, this narrow view that all we are is what we see.
	Science has proven That there is so much more that we don't see.
	Why put blinders on and ignore that when dealing with it and grappling with it will bring you peace?
	The goal is, and the goal of any religion should be, to end human suffering.
	So you look and see how it works.
	Even Jesus of Galilee said, you'll know them by their fruits if it works.
	So if it brings peace, an exorcism or dealing with peace, making peace, if it ends human That's your result.
	You may not have heard this, but he brought somebody, I guess, at the advice of the church, or from the church, who exercised one spirit, and then he got two spirits.
	Right.
	The exorcism must not have been as effective as it needed to be.
	Again, I really think he needs the assistance, perhaps a Christian exorcist working with A Native American shaman.
	They need to bring together those two cultures as a communication bridge to those very unrestful spirits.
	I live on timbered land.
	I live on 20 acres of timbered land.
	He needs to replant.
	It's not that difficult to replant.
	Well, you heard him say he took a truck in there, really cleaned the whole mess up that he admitted was a big mess, cleaned it up, and put a memorial up there.
	Saying it was a burial ground.
	The whole thing.
	That must not have been enough to appease them, though.
	Yeah, obviously not.
	So you think replanting?
	Definitely.
	Bringing it back.
	The problem is, all things change.
	And unfortunately, whole cultures get lost during these changes.
	Like Tibet.
	Tibet's just about gone.
	And the Native American culture is gone.
	Despite the pockets on reservations, all we have is their wisdom recorded.
	So there's no way to return entirely to the way things were, but he can attempt a sort of a peace offering.
	Is a ghost like that a full consciousness, do you believe?
	I'm asking you about the nature of ghosts now.
	In other words, are these really spirits that are physically dead, but fully conscious?
	I mean, to be slapping and gouging eyes and doing things so specific.
	Raising beds, all the things we see in the movies, throwing stuff around the room, furniture moving, there was a lot you didn't hear, all of that kind of stuff.
	Does that mean this is really that being, but from the other side, fully conscious, as we understand it?
	Well, consciousness, oh what a realm that is, we have our unconscious, our subconscious Consciousness is something that we center around our minds, our brains, and our skull.
	So these are entities with no brain, but yet they are a form of consciousness that existed at one time.
	Okay, but he was asking this entity questions and it was answering by slapping him.
	Right, right.
	I think the angrier they are and the more unfinished business that the spirit has, The more conscious it's going to be.
	And I know there are many that disagree and don't even believe in ghosts.
	They think that it's a psychological projection coming from the man's subconscious mind.
	And that's a very provocative theory.
	I have struggled with that one for years, that ghosts are all in the mind.
	Having never seen a ghost, it makes us all doubters and skeptics.
	If he's got photographs, videotape even better, and he does, of the bed coming up off the floor, he said that he's got on the videotape you can see a kind of a fuzz spot as the entity moves about the room with a compass following it.
	He's got all this on tape.
	This is real serious proof.
	Well, yeah, but you know the naysayers would say, hey, that could be trick photography.
	No, I don't think so.
	So many frauds.
	You know what?
	I listened to this guy.
	He sounded so sincere.
	Yeah, I don't think... I'm almost personally ruling that out.
	But you know what the skeptics will say.
	They'll look at that video, they'll go over it with a fine-tooth comb, but in a way that's good.
	You're a healthy skeptic yourself.
	And your skepticism helps you Keep in touch.
	Keep a little down to earth.
	You filter things that come your way.
	You filter stories.
	You put it through your... I've listened to you many times.
	And that's good.
	But you don't go as far as being a naysayer.
	You are open to these possibilities.
	Oh, yes.
	Well, look.
	When these things have happened to you, your life changes.
	I mean, when you see certain things and certain things occur to you, which they have to me in my life, if you ignore them, you're an idiot.
	Right.
	They'll keep coming until they get your attention fully.
	Right.
	Have you dealt with ghosts?
	Are you telling us?
	No.
	Well, I have one situation and it's interesting.
	You should mention it.
	I interviewed this woman.
	I don't know if we talked about this on the program.
	I interviewed a witch.
	No, she wasn't a witch.
	That's not fair.
	The witches will get angry at me.
	She was a Satanist.
	Oh my!
	There's a big difference.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, that's why I quickly corrected myself.
	She was a true Satanist.
	We're going to be replaying that show this Saturday.
	This interview with the Satanist.
	Listen, we're at the top of the hour.
	Can you ladies hold on?
	Of course.
	We'll be here.
	Good.
	Hold on.
	Stay right there and we will be right back.
	And I'll recount that very briefly.
	Well, you just never know what you're going to run into on any given night.
	The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	More, somewhere in time, coming up.
	I. Don't you give up.
	Don't you? Don't you?
	Don't you give up?
	Reach the other side.
	I was lonely then.
	I couldn't sleep.
	The night that you...
	Nothing but a heart is never ending.
	Nothing but a heart and a tear that's all the way.
	Nothing but a tear that's...
	I'm not a bad guy, but you're sick, yeah.
	You like me, oh why can't I get him?
	Nothing but a heart is never ending.
	Nothing but a heart and a tear that's all the way.
	Nothing but a heart and a...
	You like me, oh why can't I get him?
	I got a lot of those heartaches.
	I got a lot of those tear drops.
	Heartache, tear drops, all the way.
	Nothing but a heart is never ending.
	Nothing but a heart is never ending.
	Nothing but a heart and a tear that's all the way.
	Nothing but a tear that's...
	I need help just to slam, yeah.
	Please guide me, oh why can't I get him?
	I got a lot of those heartaches.
	I got a lot of those...
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from the 17th of February, 2000.
	Good morning everybody.
	Well, this song goes well for my friend of the last hour and a half.
	Prior to this last segment.
	Every day, I guess, a hard day, huh?
	Anyway, coming up, we will continue with my current guest, Dr. Katya Romanov.
	Now, she doesn't use her last name, so we're gonna just call her Dr. Katya.
	And Lori.
	Both who normally come here and talk to us about dreams, and we are gonna get to that, because I've got a situation going on in my life with dreams, but It surely is trivial compared to what that poor man in West
	Virginia is going through right now.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from the 17th of February, 2000.
	Alright, back now to my guests, Dr. Akatya and Lori.
	Gals, welcome back to the program.
	Well, thank you for having us.
	Any final thoughts on our friend in West Virginia?
	Then reluctantly, I will turn my attention elsewhere.
	Well, I would just love to know if these beings communicate with him in his dreams.
	Oh, in his dreams?
	Yes.
	I didn't even ask that.
	He is unable to sleep during nighttime hours at all.
	I mean, it's been going on for three hours.
	So this guy sits up at night with lights.
	And sometimes he's had a mask and strobe lights so that he can sleep.
	But when he does sleep, I guess mainly during the day, I don't know if it affects his dreams or not.
	But you know, the main reason I since I had interviewed the two of you before, and we had a really good interview on the air about dreams.
	As you know, something began to happen to me, so I picked up the phone and I called you and I began to tell you about what I'm going to describe tonight.
	In the information you sent to me, Lori, you list five possibilities of dreams.
	Paranormal dreams, it says here, correspondence between physical conditions such as illness or pregnancy, whatever, and dream content.
	Contact dreams.
	Dreams in which the dead communicate with us.
	Three.
	Paranormal dreams.
	Precognitive, telepathic, clairvoyant.
	Four.
	Lucid dreams.
	Being aware that you're dreaming while in a dream.
	Our key to understanding the full range of consciousness, you say.
	And then five.
	Past life dreams.
	Do our dreams show us our past lives?
	All fertile territory, no doubt, to talk about here on the air.
	But here it comes.
	The reason I called in the first place was because about a month ago, I think it's about a month ago, you know, times, it gets hard.
	I should have kept a better record.
	I began to have dreams.
	I had dreams all my life.
	I know what dreams are, and sometimes they seem really very real, but they always have involved me as somewhere in the dream I was in the dream however I began to have this series of dreams gals in which it's like here's where I can only describe it with these words it's like I was dropped right into the life of another person and I wasn't me I wasn't observing this like a third person or
	Like you'd read a third-person description in a book or something like that.
	Gals, that was me.
	I became a different person.
	Now, in these dreams, I know the places.
	I could go to the places.
	I know the people's names.
	I know my name.
	I know where I went to high school.
	I know what I did.
	I know where my locker was.
	It's a state that, other than a short stint in the Air Force, I never have set foot in.
	One dream, for example, in Mississippi, where I grew up.
	I mean, it's like I'm being dumped into somebody else's reality.
	And it completely is freaking me out.
	And it's not like any dream I've had in my life.
	Maybe it's a usual thing for other people, but, oh man, not for me.
	Is it always the same?
	No.
	You're always the same character?
	No.
	No.
	Okay, good.
	No.
	I could tell you the... I mean, I could go on with all details.
	I could give you as many details of these dreams, and I just gave you one example, as I can give you of my own real life.
	Very vivid, then.
	Scaring me, kind of.
	So you're going to different regions of the United States, or are you... do you sometimes go to other countries, and what about time?
	No, it's always... it's always been...
	All good questions.
	It's always been, in this country, so far, and it's always been, you know, actually not always.
	One time, I had a dream prior to the second, or at the beginning of the Second World War.
	Now, bear in mind, I was not born until 1945.
	Alright?
	I'm 54 years old, June 17th of this year.
	I'll be 55.
	So, I had one dream that occurred prior to my own birth.
	Okay.
	Any others?
	All the rest are contemporary?
	No.
	None contemporary.
	Oh, they're all in the past?
	All in the past.
	Did you mention high schools and lockers?
	But of course, high schools and lockers existed at the turn of the century, so... Oh, yes.
	Absolutely.
	But...
	I guess I should put it this way, without going into the details that I obviously don't want to read on the air, there are enough details that I have considered, I don't know, I've tossed around two ideas.
	One, actually finding the people, because I know they're there, I know the town they're in, and talking to the people, or even getting on an airplane and going to a couple of these places.
	Now, I'm really hesitant to do this, but I'm almost driven to do this.
	So that's why I called you now in the dreams that you've lined up here to talk about just exactly where pray tell
	Does what's happening to me fit in?
	Any thoughts Well, it's the classic case of tapping into the collective unconscious.
	If your dreams were all in contemporary settings, which they're not, they would still be valid experiences where you're touching the minds or the lives, the life experiences of other beings, other human beings.
	But since some of them are historical, in a historical context, They could be genetic memory triggering something one of your great-grandparents went through.
	Reincarnation, of course, past lives, is a whole kettle of worms.
	I've been grappling with reincarnation for years and I'm not sure I believe in it, but I do believe in genetic memory.
	In other words, anything that your ancestors did, felt, experienced, you can access through your DNA.
	Every cell in your body has that same DNA code.
	The same DNA code is in your hair that's in the cells that make up your heart muscle.
	Okay, but what, just out of curiosity, do you imagine might cause a man my age to, someone who's dreamt, just like everybody dreams, I think, which is a foolish statement, because I don't know how everybody dreams, but, you know, I've had you run in the middle of anything from terror to romance to Funny stuff, to sad stuff, to scary stuff, but always just dreams.
	I know that if I make the trip, I'm going to find what I lived.
	And when I tell you I lived it, I mean I lived it.
	I'm going to find that.
	It's there.
	And I don't know if I want to know.
	Well, we want to know.
	Yeah, really?
	You need to go.
	Definitely.
	What a case that would be.
	Well, I guess the question really is, What would make somebody who's dreamt normally, in quotes, all their life, suddenly begin to dream in this utterly, completely different mode?
	Your mind is suddenly open to it.
	You've reached a threshold.
	Great.
	You're at a new phase in your life.
	Oh, great.
	As the fortune teller told you, you're entering this new phase and the barriers are coming down in your Mind all the doors come open when we sleep in our mind and
	you're able to cross over to the other side You've learned your lessons with it with regular typical
	dreams You've accomplished what needed to be accomplished and now
	the dream weaver is throwing this at you Saying hey, how about this it wants to get your attention?
	To alert you to the other side again in your profession you deal with the paranormal every night. I'm not happy about
	this I'm serious
	I'm not happy about this.
	You're not happy?
	No, I'm not.
	I'm not happy.
	No.
	Are they literal?
	They're so literal.
	They're literal down to furnishings in the house.
	My mom, my dad, my relatives, my brothers.
	And I don't have brothers, by the way, in real life.
	I have sisters.
	I mean, I could go on and on and on and on.
	So literal.
	That it's got me sitting here jabbering about it to you.
	That literal.
	And so, I've opened up to it.
	Well, I don't know if that's a good thing.
	I don't know that I like dropping into somebody else's life like that.
	I felt all their, you know, some of their happiness and a lot of their pain.
	Sure, yeah.
	You were touching all the emotional highs and lows.
	Yup, yup, yup.
	And put bluntly, it wasn't that cool.
	It wasn't that much fun.
	Do you ever know their name or your name?
	Uh, yes.
	You need to go to those towns and check it out.
	I have a list here you might be interested in of the criteria that a past life memory dream will have to fit.
	Okay.
	I'll ask you the questions.
	Fire away.
	Okay, we already answered one, that the dreams are literal rather than symbolic.
	Now, are these dream remembrances accompanied by sensations completely unlike those you've experienced from other dreams?
	The sensations, gee, how can I put this?
	Completely unlike your other dreaming method.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	You pretty much told us yes.
	Yes, the answer to that is absolutely yes.
	In other words, I've dreamt all my 54 years to this point.
	And always afterwards, I know that I just had a dream.
	Right.
	And I sit and analyze it.
	It was kind of interesting.
	And you know, I mentally remember some of them, even relate some of them to my wife, that kind of thing.
	But we do have an exceptional dream.
	But always, I was very aware this was a dream.
	And I'm totally aware what I've been having is more than a dream.
	If that answers your question.
	It does.
	Yeah, I'd say.
	Are you aware, while in the dream, That this is a past life you are experiencing.
	No.
	It's just... No, I'm not aware of that.
	No.
	Not at all.
	You're really living it.
	I'm living the life.
	It's like I'm dropped.
	Like you're thrown back into it.
	Like, boom!
	You're not thrown into it.
	I mean, really into it.
	Just completely immersed suddenly.
	You're living a different life.
	Period.
	No reference to the current life at all.
	None.
	Right.
	You're still within the criteria.
	What's the next one, Laurie?
	Now, you've had these recently, so this one might not fit you just yet, but is the dream so vivid that you can describe the slightest detail even years later?
	Yes.
	The reason for that is because it was so shocking to me that, of course, I When I awakened, I spoke to my wife about it, and I relayed a lot of the details to her.
	And in doing that, it caused me to remember it in great detail, I think.
	That would be the way to put it.
	Right.
	It's always good to discuss a dream with someone.
	If you're not keeping a dream journal, it's good to discuss even non-paranormal dreams.
	Your normal run-of-the-mill dreams aren't run-of-the-mill.
	Every dream has a message.
	But in your case, you're dealing with past lives here.
	The whole reincarnation issue.
	Whatever your spiritual tradition is, Art, have you believed in reincarnation?
	Are you a disbeliever?
	So now perhaps these dreams are coming to you to say, hey, this is true.
	I told you personally, I really struggle with reincarnation.
	You're asking me a really, really hard question because I lean, to answer it as best I can, The concept of reincarnation.
	It seems logical to me that a person would... I'll come back to put it simply again and again until they get it right.
	You know, the old school house and earth thing.
	All of that seems like it's more logical than not to me, but I don't have conclusive enough evidence to say Art Bell believes in reincarnation.
	I think it's logical.
	It is.
	It's very, very logical.
	And I've heard compelling evidence from people, you know, guests.
	Very compelling evidence.
	So I lean toward believing it may well be.
	But it's still a struggle for you.
	Yep.
	Well, I think it's obvious why the dreams are coming to you.
	You need to deal with this and decide your opinion one way or the other.
	Perhaps you... I have two more questions.
	Oh, there's two more?
	Well, let's go.
	No problem.
	All you want.
	Okay.
	Has your attitude toward death and dying changed since having these dreams?
	Hmm.
	Um...
	Uh...
	Give me a minute to think about that.
	We're at a break point here.
	Let me think about that.
	I think the answer is no, but I want to think it over.
	I'm Art Bell.
	And this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Good morning.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from the 17th of February 2000.
	I have you on my mind, I woke up this morning baby.
	You know that I felt so fine.
	You know I need you.
	You know that I love you.
	This is my pledge of love to you.
	My pledge of love.
	My pledge of love.
	Darling, I woke up this morning, baby, I had you on my mind.
	I felt so much love this morning.
	Little girl, little girl, you feel so fine.
	You know I need you.
	You know that I love you.
	Darling.
	Dream, dream, dream, dream, dream.
	Dream, dream, dream, when I want you.
	In my arms when I want you.
	And all your charms whenever I want you.
	All I have to do is dream.
	Dream, dream, dream, when I feel blue.
	In the night and I need you To hold me tight whenever I want you
	All I have to do is dream I can make you mine
	Taste your lips of wine Any time, night or day
	Only trouble is, she whips I'm dreamin' my life away
	I need you so that I could die I love you so and that is why
	Now, we take you back to the past On Art Bell Somewhere in Time
	Obviously, I'm going to get away with using all my dream bumper music here.
	My guests are Dr. Katja and Lori.
	I'm Art Bell, and we are talking about dreams.
	I think they're dreams.
	Anyway, I think I've got a good answer and it's coming up.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from the 17th of February, 2000.
	Once again, Dr. Katja and Lori are on the air and hi there, ladies.
	Alright, here's my answer to your question.
	Again, I'm going to refer, believe it or not, back to last night, to the fundamentalists that I had on, because there were certain things that I really agreed with them about.
	You, no doubt, recently have heard, you asked me if my attitude on death and dying has changed, and the answer, I think, is no.
	But here's what my attitude, I think, is.
	Charles Schultz just died.
	The man who did Peanuts.
	Right.
	Now, he did thousands and thousands of that series of Peanuts.
	It was all his adult life.
	And he died on the eve of his last one.
	He had announced his retirement and he died on the eve of his last one.
	and the gentleman I spoke with last night thought that he regarded his mission as done or his mission on earth was done and so it appropriately occurred to him or you know you can imagine a million different things he brought it on himself mentally It really was cosmically his time?
	God took him back at that moment?
	Think of it the way you will.
	I don't believe in that many coincidences, although, you know, maybe, sure, it could have been a coincidence, but not very likely one, in my opinion.
	So my attitude is that you're taken when you're done with what you're supposed to do.
	That's my attitude on Death and Dying, that you're kind of taken when you're done with what you're supposed to do.
	And who knows when that is?
	As I said to my wife during the break, until the symbol of the Mighty Dodge is bearing down on you, however it is, you're going to go.
	And you might not even have any warning.
	So I think we have some sort of mission to accomplish in this life, and then when you're done, you're done.
	But are you recycled when you're finished?
	Beats the hell out of me.
	I'm giving you an honest answer.
	I can't honestly say that I believe in reincarnation.
	I can't say that.
	And your fundamentalist friends last night, they, as Christians, would disbelieve reincarnation, even though for the first four centuries of Christianity, reincarnation was standard belief.
	It was in the books.
	Reincarnation was believed by Christians.
	Yeah, I know.
	They wouldn't want to hear that.
	No, they wouldn't want to hear that.
	Emperor Constantine got rid of reincarnation at the urging of his third wife, who couldn't have.
	She was a very vicious, nasty woman.
	And she couldn't handle the thought that she might have to come back as a lower life form because she was so mean and cruel.
	So she talked him into removing reincarnation from the doctrines.
	And of course, you remember Emperor Constantine is the man who put Christianity on the map.
	How comfortable could she have been doing that personally?
	In other words, certainly she might fool some other people down the line, but she had to know herself that she was just using her wiles to get this done.
	it ain't the truth so right perhaps she felt she had an ego complex that she felt she really was forming this rising star religion and she thought well maybe maybe if i help form these doctrines that's the way it's really going to be in her fear as as it is written so it shall be done yeah that's not a complex i see i see i see yeah that could be Um, so what you're really, but the all important point is, you're saying reincarnation was once viewed as real as any part of the Bible.
	Oh yes, all great religions, the major religions on the planet believe in reincarnation or transmigration of souls.
	Transmigration.
	The Hasidic Jews, the Kabbalah and Jewish mysticism teaches reincarnation, as well as early Christianity.
	And of course, Hinduism and Buddhism.
	Very strong tenets.
	It's good old reincarnation, but it's so hard to believe.
	But perhaps that's because we're wearing these veils of ignorance to keep us sane.
	It's not hard for me to believe.
	It's hard for me to embrace as absolute fact.
	I see what you're saying.
	I can't come and tell you.
	Boy, I know it's true.
	I'm so comfortable.
	I know I'm coming back or I've been back.
	I can't say that.
	It's very reassuring to tell those who've lost a loved one, don't worry, they'll come back.
	Very reassuring.
	See, I go right to the other extreme.
	It's also possible, in my mind, that when we die, the worms crawl in and the worms crawl out, and there is nothing but velvet blackness.
	Right.
	Well, the worms are going to crawl no matter what, Art.
	Your flesh is just your garment.
	Yeah.
	Either you're going to be cremated, Or your worm food, that's just the way it is.
	Yeah.
	But your soul, your memories, the energy that is you.
	Right.
	Is it going to exist?
	I often think that it's going to be stirred into the pool of souls.
	You sort of get stirred in and mixed up.
	So I think your dreams, you're touching on memories of other lives.
	Not necessarily lives that you lived, even.
	But yes, it could be.
	It could be reincarnation.
	But it could be.
	Some of these lives that I've been in, or even the majority of them, have been lives that would have been parallel to my own.
	In other words, would have been going on when I was alive.
	Yes, see, so there you are.
	You are tapping into the pool of souls.
	We can reach out and touch.
	Computers can be connected.
	All the computers in one office building can be connected.
	So why can't all the minds... In a network, yeah.
	Yeah, networking.
	So you're interfacing here.
	Well, I'm not so wild about it.
	It's uncomfortable for you.
	It's really weird.
	Are they still going on?
	Yes.
	May I ask you how many instances of what I have just described to you you've heard of before?
	Is it rare or common or what?
	It's neither rare nor common.
	Somewhere in the middle there, I hear say several cases of this per year.
	But now we've got many listeners, and it will be fun to see how many have experienced this.
	Just two weeks ago, I had a similar report.
	Really?
	Yeah, and I thought, wow.
	Now, I'm not a dream researcher, but I have never heard of this before.
	You know, and until it happened to me, I had not heard of it.
	Or any reports of it, or I never had anything about it on my show either.
	With people saying this was happening to them, I've never had that.
	It may be happening more now as awareness grows.
	We all get, again, we're all connected.
	Our minds are thinking on the same wavelength.
	The whole cyclical time as we come back around to where we started from.
	Of course, I believe in linear time too.
	That's another argument.
	And these dreams could be happening more often than we all realize, because how many dreams during the night do you actually remember?
	Right.
	Usually, it seems like, well, not all the time, but generally, more times than not, the one you had just before you woke up.
	Oh, right.
	Definitely.
	Or at least it sure seems that way.
	Nightmares in the middle of the night will propel you into the waking state, so that you will remember them.
	A nightmare, above all, wants to be remembered, because it has the most powerful message for you.
	These weren't... You'll be a positive one, so don't be afraid.
	Let me tell you this.
	These were not, much as I say I'm not real happy about this happening, these weren't nightmares.
	Right.
	They were good, and they were bad, and they were...
	They were just simply somebody else's life all together.
	So I wouldn't call it a nightmare at all.
	I wouldn't even call it a dream.
	It's almost as though they were experiences.
	You were using your subconscious to tap into someone else's experiences.
	It didn't seem like a dream or a nightmare.
	It's a whole other realm in dream science.
	It's paranormal dreaming.
	It's beyond the psychoanalytical view of dreams.
	Well, I'll say this to you.
	You know, I've been doing the show now, in this mode, you know, talking about this kind of thing, for a lot of years.
	And in the latter years of doing it, I have really begun to experience, personally, a lot of paranormal things you put in the paranormal basket.
	Yes.
	We talked about this the last time we were on, and I really believe there's, in your profession, you cannot help but encounter this, because you are an example for others, and you communicate.
	You're a mouthpiece.
	for the metaphysical realm.
	That's what I am about.
	Nightly contact with the other side with art.
	But you see, not really.
	I mean, well, in other words, I have been, because I examine this, because I have my own real honest curiosity about it, I've interviewed countless people, all kinds of areas of the paranormal, everything you can imagine in the paranormal world, I've interviewed, I've talked to these people, I've listened to them, I've listened to their stories, and now it's getting me!
	I can only presume that my mind has begun to open to these things, and so they are now coming to me, and it's pretty weird.
	Yeah, all change is uncomfortable, but it's always a good thing.
	You're moving forward in your evolution.
	Your personal evolution.
	We're all evolving.
	We're moving toward integration.
	That's what dreams help us do.
	Our dreams are the royal road to the subconscious, as Sigmund Freud said.
	And they are the royal road to enlightenment.
	As C.G.
	Jung, Carl Jung said.
	Occasionally, they're a lot lighter than that, too, though.
	I mean, you have all kinds of neat dreams.
	You have sex dreams.
	Sex dreams aren't bad.
	No, of course not.
	They're fun!
	Rather enjoyable, actually.
	And remember, they come to balance our sexual energy.
	They're generally big teases, you know?
	Dreams are big teases, but not always.
	Sometimes you can justify a cigarette when you wake up, you know?
	So there's a lighter side dreaming to that that really is a lot lighter seed side
	sometimes and I was talking to my wife about this earlier tonight she
	said she's She's hurt. She's been awakened at times by my laughing
	Hahaha, I wake myself up dead asleep dead asleep, but she wakes up, and I'm laughing Wow
	Now that's not REM sleep obviously if you're laughing.
	What is it?
	Well, it could be because he's not using skeletal muscles.
	Skeletal muscles?
	Your skeletal muscles are paralyzed when you go into REM sleep.
	Otherwise, you would get up and act it out.
	Right.
	So we go into... The brain is bathed in certain chemicals that keep you frozen during dream state.
	Oh, is that so?
	You'd get up walking around the room acting out this dream.
	Um, so then laughing is a physical activity that falls outside the realm, right?
	No, I've always seen laughter in dreams in sleep labs.
	Laughter would occur in one of the other stages of dreaming, not REM sleep.
	Not REM sleep?
	No, it's just like talking in your sleep.
	Alright, well, there's the other thing.
	It's worth remembering that I sleep A totally bizarre schedule.
	Yeah.
	Remember?
	I get off the air at what, 3 o'clock in the morning local time here on the West Coast, and I might stay up for a couple hours generally, go to sleep around 5 in the morning, wake it up around 9 in the morning, 5 to 9 let's say, then again in the afternoon about 4 o'clock or sometimes 5.
	Right.
	You have an entirely bizarre sleeping pattern.
	It's like the sleeping pattern of a soldier.
	Yeah, maybe 7.30.
	In the evening from 5 to 7.30 or 8 o'clock even if I'm lucky.
	And so that's my sleep schedule for the day.
	And so then I must pass through these various stages of sleep a whole bunch of times.
	Yes.
	That's going to bring you more psychic dreams too.
	Nap time.
	When a person takes a nap in the afternoon Even if it's only for 30 minutes, some of the most psychic dreams, and when I say psychic, I mean of the soul.
	I don't mean the connotation that the word psychic has come to mean.
	I mean psychological.
	The most powerfully potent dreams will come during nap time.
	So you're kind of getting that.
	You're getting these naps.
	You're not getting into the deep layers of sleep where there's total dreamlessness.
	that little black velvet little slice of death they do.
	I love that term.
	Well, actually I do too.
	And that's the sleep I would like to have.
	Dreamless sleep.
	There have been times, I think I said this to you before, when I've had dreams where I was so active
	that when I did wake up I felt like I'd been working because I was dreaming of such a vivid dream
	that instead of waking up rested I go Fyah! Glad that's over.
	Now I'm awake!
	Yes, that's very common for people who have broken sleep patterns.
	You feel worse than when you went, you know, I just should have stayed awake, because so much is going on during your sleeping time.
	And it needs to, that's what recharges your batteries.
	And I don't mean your physical batteries, obviously sleep does that.
	But your brain needs to recycle, your mind, your consciousness needs to go through that REM sleep.
	And it does need those nice dreamless sleep phases also.
	And usually laughter and sleep talking, talking in the sleep, usually those are just as we're emerging.
	The sleep state that's most akin to meditative states, you know, the gurus of India, though they meditate and they have visions, well, they've measured their brain waves when they do this, and other mystics of other traditions, and it's the same.
	It's the same.
	Well, I wanted to mention the happy part of it to you, and this is not necessarily unhappy, but she also tells me that I moan.
	How do you feel when she awakens you?
	that she has on a couple of occasions awakened me from that condition.
	And obviously didn't mention to me at the time that you woke me up because I was bawling or whatever.
	Crying, let's specify. Crying.
	How do you feel when she awakens you? Do you remember?
	Do you feel any of the emotions?
	Well, my wife is usually up before I am, so I'm used to my wife awakening me.
	Ah.
	So, hmm.
	Because that would be interesting to see what you're feeling, what residue is coming into your waking.
	Because you're not supposed to interrupt a dreamer.
	Of course, we do it in sleep labs all the time.
	Because we want to know what they're dreaming.
	Well, I'm not certain that the laughter or the moaning or the crying or whatever emotion comes out.
	is because a dream is going on.
	I don't know that to be true.
	I just know it's happening.
	Right.
	You are having a dream and you're responding to it with your full range of emotions.
	That's very healthy.
	It would be nice if you could remember the dream and deal with it, but it's okay if you don't.
	Because you'll get the same message in another form.
	That's the beauty of dreams.
	If you don't get it the first time, it'll come again and again, just like recurring nightmares and recurring dreams.
	That means we haven't gotten the message.
	Gotcha.
	Alright, well, anyway, the heck with me.
	That's enough.
	I wanted to get that out, because I guess I wanted to see if other people were experiencing it.
	I wanted to run it by the two of you.
	What I want to do next is allow the audience to get in here and say what they want to say.
	So that's what we'll do as he grabs some more dream bumper music.
	Irresistible.
	The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	More somewhere in time coming up.
	I want a dream lover.
	So I don't have to dream alone.
	don't do stuff like that Dream lover, where are you?
	Where the love goes.
	By the blue tile walls, near the market stalls, there's a hand and there she leads.
	These days I feel my life just like a river running through the ear of a cat
	I'm just a little girl, I'm just a little girl, I'm just a little girl...
	I'm just a little girl, I'm just a little girl, I'm just a little girl...
	Somewhere in time with Art Bell continues courtesy of Premier Networks.
	we're headed toward open lines in a moment and I've got some pretty
	interesting stuff for you well you know to me that sax has always been like a bit of
	soul so I always let Anyway, I do have some interesting items for you, and then open lines directly ahead.
	and stay right there.
	Alright, I've got a number of comments and then we're going to open the lines here.
	And here they come.
	Number one, I have not for a long time paid attention to the political world and I still don't very much.
	For a lot of reasons.
	I used to be a registered, at one time I was a registered Republican and I fed up with them and so I became something else.
	I became libertarian.
	And that's, to me, the sign of a free thinker.
	Some people seem to think it means that I would go out and always vote for the Libertarian candidate.
	Well, that's bunk.
	And if that's what the Libertarians think, then they enlisted the wrong guy.
	Or the wrong guy enlisted, depending on how you want to look at it.
	My vote will go for the person that I think I have a chance of believing.
	And that could be anybody, any party.
	And as I look at the landscape right now, I like Senator McCain.
	George Bush, W, gives me the creepies.
	When I look at him, I get the creeps.
	I really like McCain.
	McCain's like a real guy to me, I guess.
	He was a POW, as most of you know.
	And I don't know, when I listen to him, it sounds like the real thing to me.
	And when I listen to George W., it sounds like his dad to me.
	And sketchy as that is, those are my feelings about the political situation going on right now.
	Of course, McCain had a surprise and very big victory in New Hampshire, and now they're really scrapping down in South Carolina.
	So that's going to be the news through the weekend, primarily coming on Saturday and It's going to be big news.
	It'll be interesting to see what occurs.
	I just wanted to say to those who know that I'm libertarian, if you think that means that I automatically vote that way, you're crazy.
	And I don't think that's really true of any party affiliation.
	At least not for me.
	For some people, I guess, when they join a party, they automatically pull the ballot for the person in that party.
	That's not me.
	Never has been.
	Never will be.
	Now, check this out.
	Associated Press.
	Tonight, flaw found in Mars lander's design.
	Pasadena.
	A flaw in the design of NASA's Mars polar lander could have caused its engines to cut off prematurely while the $165 million spacecraft was descending to the surface, said the engineers on Thursday.
	The glitch is the latest of several possibilities under investigation into why the spacecraft has not made contact since December 3rd.
	It was supposed to have gently landed, you'll recall, to begin a 90-day mission to study Mars climate history.
	Other scenarios include the possibility that the spacecraft landed on some steep side of a canyon and toppled over or the radios broke down You know, they don't know.
	But the late news is that the signals they thought they were getting from the lander have now been apparently ruled out by NASA as lander signals.
	And it was kind of interesting, because you may recall Ed Dame said the lander burned up in the atmosphere.
	And even on the day that the story came in where they thought they had signals from the lander, Ed Dame said, no, no.
	Remember what I said, it burned up in the atmosphere?
	Well, guess what?
	Now, it looks like that's an equal possibility at the very least, that it may have fallen into a canyon and can't get up, although that would not account for the lack, of course, of the UHF signal.
	So, the highest likelihood, it seems to me now, is that it did, in fact, burn up in the atmosphere.
	The following is from, is just hours old.
	You may have heard the reference Dr. Katja and Lori made to our sun.
	The following is from Space Science News, February 18th.
	So you can check it out yourself.
	Subject, a coronal mass ejection heads for Earth.
	Space Science News for February 18th, 2000.
	Here comes the sun.
	A full halo, that's in quotes, full halo, coronal mass ejection left the sun yesterday, apparently headed directly for Earth.
	When the leading edge of the disturbance reaches our planet, February 19th or 20th, it may trigger aurora and other geomagnetic activity.
	And then they go on to point to the full story.
	We'll try and get this up for you on the website.
	I'll pass this link on to Keith here shortly and we'll get it up on the website.
	But if true, that certainly is very interesting.
	So is this.
	And I talked to Richard Hoagland about this earlier in the day.
	Reuters News.
	Sinking water levels have apparently revealed a granite sarcophagus of the ancient Egyptian god Osiris in a 30 meter deep tomb at the Giza pyramids.
	That, folks, is a quote from Zahi Hawass himself.
	Osiris, of course, one of the most important gods of ancient Egypt, who, according to mythology, was murdered by his wicked brother, Seth.
	He was buried by Isis, his sister wife, and brought back to life as judge of the dead and ruler of the underworld.
	Dr. Hawass said the sarcophagus, which he dated 500 BC in the New Kingdom, was surrounded by the remains of four pillars built in the shape of a hieroglyph called the House of Osiris.
	The excavation unearthed 3,000-year-old bones and pottery found in the underground water, he said.
	He said, quote, I never excavated this shaft because it was always full of water.
	But when the water went down about a year ago, we began the adventure, he told Reuters.
	After dirt and most of the remaining water was cleared from the shaft located between the Sphinx and The pyramid archaeologists found three underground levels with the submerged Osiris sarcophagus at the lowest.
	Many people believe there were tunnels going to the Sphinx and another leading to the Great Pyramid, but only when we sent, get this folks, a young boy into a tunnel in the west wall of the tomb shaft did we find This exciting discovery according to Dr. Zahi Hawass.
	And then here's one more item that I really had to get on the air this morning.
	This is dated February 16th, Auckland, New Zealand, and you can find it if you want on Yahoo News.
	The headline is, Global Sea Level Rise to Flood Parts of Tuvalu this weekend.
	That's Tuvalu, T-U-V-A-L-U.
	Check this out.
	Global warming and the associated sea level rise will threaten residents of Tuvalu this weekend with tides, these are tides now folks, forecast to be higher than most of the islands they live on, according to a climate expert Wednesday.
	Homes, offices, The airport there, all expected to be flooded, underwater.
	So, what they're saying, scientists are saying spring tides have been getting steadily higher, causing serious problems, but this month they will get the highest ever.
	The island home to about 11,000 The groundwater already has become undrinkable thanks to seawater intrusion, but according to one resident who says it's very hard to live here right now, shortly it apparently is going to be impossible to live there.
	Now, if global warming had any validity, depending on whether you want to believe in global warming or reject it and just believe in big cycles, when islands begin to disappear under the water, inhabited islands begin to disappear under the water then you've got to imagine something real is going on has nothing to do with storms or anything else simply consistently raising higher and higher tides now I will leave it to you because obviously the scientists have no clue except they feel global warming that's what they say and I know a lot of you
	for political reasons or reasons of whatever belief reject the whole concept which is fine but you're going to have to make up a good reason for islands beginning to disappear people who are going to have to begin evacuating islands because they're going to be gone under the water just something for you to ponder uh... first time caller line you're on the air high Oh, is this Art Bell?
	It is, yes.
	Hi, I have an answer for the guy who has the forest on the land of the burial ground.
	Native American, yes.
	Yes, I'm Native American and I think it has something to do with, it is on the burial ground and he needs to contact a shaman for sure.
	He should get off of it and do something called like a sage.
	So you would say, you know, he was warned that his life could be in danger.
	You agree with that?
	Yes.
	You do.
	I really believe so.
	And it's amazing it hasn't happened before.
	I think maybe it has, but no one's ever believed it.
	Well, you know, it's really easy to advise somebody to get the heck out, and I understand that, but when the land is generational, it's been passed on down to you, when you're disabled, when you've built your own house, When you've lived there all your life, then maybe it's not so easy.
	It's easier for us to say than it would be for him to do.
	Also with Indians, I mean, think about what they've been through.
	They've lived there for generations themselves, you know.
	Yeah, you're right.
	You're right.
	I think sage might help.
	Sage advice or sage sage?
	Sage as far as the sage plant.
	Sage plant, huh?
	Yes, that does help.
	Let's consider that, pass on that.
	I think sage wisdom is a good idea, too, and the wisdom might be to get the hell out.
	It is really easy advice to dispense, as we dispassionately, to some degree at least, sit here and we're not in his shoes, in his house, on his land.
	And so, it's easy to say, and for him, understandably, I mean, after all, his mother left, his fiancé And he's lost a lot of the people, friends, that he knew who will not come around anymore.
	So, I don't know.
	People make their choices, I guess, you know.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hey, Eric.
	It's Mission Air Jet Ken from Coal Lake, Alberta, Canada.
	How are you, sir?
	I'm fine.
	You know, I should give you an update on the astronauts, but maybe I'll do that another time.
	There's an interesting story that happened up here in the second group.
	The second group, what do you mean?
	We've had two groups of astronauts up here training for cold weather.
	Oh, that's right.
	Up in Canada training, yes.
	Up here just off of our base.
	Right, right.
	First group had a very easy goal.
	It was just below zero during the day.
	But the second group, it was minus up to 37 at night.
	Well, they got more severe training.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Third group comes in in March, and by then it should be, maybe the grass will be growing.
	Who knows?
	You know, your favorite movie, one of your best movies is The Seventh Sign with Demi Moore.
	That's right.
	And I was just thinking about something earlier tonight.
	Remember one of the signs is when all the fish started dying and showing up on the shores?
	And you know what happened in Europe?
	The Danube, the rivers leading into it?
	I sure do.
	The fish destruction.
	I know.
	Has anybody mentioned this or even thought of that?
	You know what?
	It's far beyond that.
	It's cyanide, but now it's heavy metal.
	And they say the heavy metal released is actually, in the long run, far more dangerous.
	The rivers could have been brought back.
	The cyanide would have eventually dissipated.
	But the metals will keep it dead, down to the microbial level, for actually years and years and years.
	They have no idea, perhaps even permanently, from our point of view as mortals.
	Can you imagine killing that?
	That's never happened before, I don't think.
	To that level, anyway.
	Well, there was Chernobyl.
	That was a pretty permanent disaster.
	And they're reaping the benefits of that in Europe still because of... I know.
	And the sarcophagus they built over that is crumbling.
	And there are thoughts that it is not safe.
	And there could be an explosion at Chernobyl.
	They don't know what's going to happen.
	So we're making some really big, bad, permanent Mistakes, and permanent, at least from our mortal point of view.
	In the long run, cosmically, everything will be all right.
	Hey, funny story.
	Funny story.
	The astronauts, you want to hear this one, Art?
	Yeah, sure.
	Okay, this is kind of inside information, so if the NASA people are listening, just sit back and relax, okay?
	But the first group of people that came in, they were paleo specialists and whatnot, like nuclear scientists, the whole nine yards.
	Anyways, it was a beautiful summer's day in the middle of the winter and they had an easy goal and the guy in charge of the camp decided that it was time to move the camp because it's all about working together and doing what you're told.
	So anyways, he said, it was two o'clock in the afternoon, he said, beautiful day, it was just above zero.
	Okay, we're moving the camp.
	And I guess the rest of the people didn't want to do it.
	And they got together and they came back to the guy in charge.
	Who's a sergeant major, retired from the Canadian Forces, the old British sergeant major.
	And they said, this is the way it works, not speaking for NASA, but as a group.
	We're on the shuttle.
	If we want to do something, we get together, we have a discussion.
	And if we decide that we're not going to do it as a group, we make the decision and that's the way it works.
	So we're not moving camp.
	So he just let it ride and he went into two o'clock that morning.
	Yeah.
	And he did a complete bug-out.
	You're an ex-Air Force, you know what a bug-out is.
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah.
	They did a bug-out.
	Not only that, but I'm an ex-Air Force medic, so I really know what it is.
	Yeah, that's right.
	Big time.
	So, 2 o'clock in the morning at minus 25, they moved us down.
	So, the repercussions of that hit, big time, hit Texas.
	And the head of NASA training for the astronauts flew up the next day.
	Yeah.
	Read the riot act, the guys, and said, listen, If you're told to do something, you will do it.
	And since that, things are really on track now.
	They've got another course coming down.
	Alright, well listen, I've got to go because we're at a break point here.
	i appreciate it and uh... figure your description of the zero days beautiful
	what are they doing radio there in the morning It's zero out there and it's beautiful!
	Welcome to the day, they say on their morning shows, question mark.
	This is Premier Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
	And if you get hurt by the little things like these, I can put that smile back on your face.
	When it's alright and it's coming on, we gotta get right back to where we started from. Love is good, love can be
	strong, we gotta get right back to where we started from.
	I felt like I could never fade away, you know it's so right.
	Midnight at the oasis, send your camel to bed Shadows paint in our faces, traces of romance in our heads
	Heaven's holding our hands, we're shining just for us Let's slip off to a saloon real soon, kick up a little dust
	Come on, cactus is our friend, he'll point it out the way Come on, till the evening ends, till the evening ends
	We don't have to answer, there's no need to speak I
	I'll be your belly dancer, dancer, and you can be my sheep.
	Woo!
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from the 17th of February, 2000.
	We have now confirmed the link, and if you'll go to my website,
	the story that I read you earlier is available for your perusal.
	We've got a link up right now, and if Keith would be kind enough, because of the importance of this, to please put a link in the latest news so you see it right away when you go on the webpage.
	You know what I mean, right, Keith?
	The headline reads, Here Comes the Sun.
	This is for Space Science News for February 18th, 2000.
	In other words, a few hours ago, and it's called Here Comes the Sun.
	A full halo coronal mass ejection left the sun yesterday, apparently headed directly for Earth.
	When the leading edge of the disturbance reaches our planet on February 19th or 20th, it could trigger aurora and other geomagnetic activity.
	And we're going to take you to the full story.
	Now, there are other associated problems with such a big blast from the sun, which could include disruption Obviously of telecommunications.
	It could even, in a very severe form, knock out satellites and do all kinds of things.
	So if you'll check my website, post haste, I'm sure you'll find the full story, which
	begins, as I just suggested, here comes the sun.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from the 17th of February, 2000.
	Alright, yes indeed, I'm on the page myself, right now it's on the links page, I would have to check back, but when you get On the left-hand side, you'll see related links, and you can click on that.
	Keith, I'm sure, is about to get it under the latest news items, so that you can just easily do it from the front page for a while here.
	But they have this really neat picture of this incredible halo, a full 360-degree halo, leaving the sun and blasting in literally all directions.
	Pretty neat stuff on my website right now.
	It says, Uh, links mentioned on air are posted here.
	Just click on that.
	It takes you to the links.
	When you get to the links, just go down to something called Here Comes the Sun, and take a look.
	And the effects of this, apparently, will arrive here on Earth on the 20th.
	So, if you begin to see Aurora, you'll know why.
	In the meantime, go up to my website and take a look.
	This is wild.
	On the international line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Mr. Bell?
	Yes.
	Hi, my name is Wolf from Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada.
	Welcome.
	Hi.
	I've got a story, really, I was hoping you could help me.
	Is this from like your Paris trip you had years ago?
	Yes.
	But it was a conscious thing.
	I was going along one time with a buddy of mine, hunting.
	Are you going to tell me you had an out-of-body experience while you were hunting?
	Well, Noah, we were going to the hunting lodge there, driving down the road in a pickup truck.
	I was a passenger.
	That's good.
	I was going along, and we were basically having an Art Bell discussion, UFOs, hauntings, and such.
	There may be your basic problem right there.
	Well, and he thinks of himself as a bit of an armchair Well, I guess a psychiatrist or whatever.
	Anyways, he said, well, you ever try astral projection?
	And I go, well, what's that?
	How do you do it?
	So he described what you do.
	You leap your body.
	And I go, well, okay.
	He says, basically, you concentrate.
	You build a television set in your mind.
	And you fill in the television screen with what you see in front of you.
	And then you push yourself into it.
	Really?
	And so you, riding along, thought, oh, what the heck, and tried it.
	Exactly.
	I do the old Canadian thing.
	I put the old tube over my head to concentrate better over my eyes.
	And I built, you know, the screen of the, this old, you know, dash on the truck there.
	Yes.
	And the road and everything.
	And I go, okay, all right, I'm all set.
	And then he says, okay, just push yourself into it.
	So I pushed.
	I pushed in.
	Pushed forward.
	It's not working, right, obviously.
	So I go, OK, well, I'll try pushing back.
	So next thing I know, pow, I'm out of my body.
	I'm in the back of the bed of the truck.
	I go, OK.
	All right.
	I wouldn't go OK, all right.
	I'd go.
	Yeah, well, yeah.
	I was going to tell you something.
	Yeah, I'd go through my mind at the time.
	I go, okay.
	You know, wind is blowing through my hair, but I don't feel any temperature, right?
	So, like, you know, you can feel the wind and everything, but... and the stars are out
	and everything.
	I'm sitting in the back of the bed of this truck.
	That's why I bend down there and I look inside the back of the... because it has the big
	window in the back, and I look inside and there's me.
	There's the back of your own head?
	No, no, I'm in the back of the truck, like, sitting, you know, in the bed of the truck.
	Yeah.
	Oh, yes.
	No, I understand, but you look into the truck and you... Yeah, so I bend down and I look inside the truck and you're like, you know, there's my buddy driving and there's me looking straight ahead.
	And so you're sitting in the back of your head, aren't you?
	Right, yeah, with my tooth gone and everything.
	He's looking over at me and he's driving and he's looking over at me.
	So, okay, I'm going, uh, all right.
	Only Canadians take things like this.
	Okay, so there I was sitting there.
	Yeah, so I figure, okay, I'll try that pushing forward thing now, eh?
	Good idea.
	You know, my feet come up and I'm floating up over the back of the bed of the truck, eh?
	Oops.
	Alright, okay.
	Weren't you beginning to get concerned a little?
	Yeah, exactly.
	I wanted to tell somebody for some time there.
	Anyways, so I go along.
	And, uh, I push a little bit further, a little bit further, and I'm, like, right over the lights now, eh?
	Of the front of the truck, eh?
	Any further than that, and the truck is gonna go thumpin' over you!
	Well, no, I'm over the truck.
	Your astral body, that is.
	Yeah, but I'm up over the truck, eh?
	Well, okay.
	So, I, uh, I look down, and there's the mist, and there's the, you know, the lines on the road and everything, okay?
	Uh... Ha!
	Ha!
	That's when I kind of freaked out a little bit, eh?
	So I go at the back of the, in the bed of the truck again, eh?
	Um, okay, so I get a little more nerve up and I try it again.
	I get up, uh, floating again.
	I go past the, uh, the lights.
	I just figure, well, I'll just follow the road, eh?
	So I take, uh, basically a mental note of all the traffic that I see as long as I'm going along the way, eh?
	Uh, way off in the distance I see these, uh, transport, uh, or it turns out to be a transport.
	Uh, these lights, uh, turned out to be a transfer track, and then a motorcycle, and then this, and then that, and, you know, taking mental note of, uh, you know, houses.
	The traffic, yeah.
	Right?
	So, uh, I'm going along, going along.
	I might have gone maybe, you know, 10, 15 miles.
	Suddenly, everything disappeared.
	There was nothing.
	There was no stars.
	There was no road.
	There was no nothing.
	It was just blackness.
	I'm thinking, ah, okay, what did I do?
	What did you do?
	I just waited, basically.
	I waited, it seemed like I waited for, you know, just a few minutes, maybe five minutes.
	And then everything came back into focus again.
	In your body?
	No, no, no, no.
	Like, I'm going down the road and I'm just sitting out there in the middle of nowhere.
	I'm just, like, there's nothing.
	There's, uh, suddenly I, well, what do I do?
	Go out into the universe?
	I, uh... Yeah, exactly.
	Alright, so?
	You know, I don't have anybody to talk to.
	I'm just by myself here, alone.
	No, I got you.
	So you're... I wait, and I wait.
	And, like I said, everything came back.
	I hear you.
	Yes.
	So how did you get back your body?
	and a good analogy would be like coming out of hyperspace in Star Wars.
	I hear you. Suddenly. You know what I mean?
	Yes. So how did you get back your body? Well, I figure, okay, everything's cool.
	Alright. Oh, I went down the road a few more miles and I figure, okay, well, maybe I should
	start hitting back, eh? So I call it relaxing. Is that what you call it?
	What's that, sorry? Is that what you call it?
	Yeah, I call it just relaxing.
	I just sort of shrugged my shoulders and relaxed, and it was at the back of the truck again.
	Maybe after the 35th time you've done it, but this experience to me, as a first experience, sounds flat terrifying.
	That's probably why I've never tried it since.
	But that was one of the questions I was going to get to you there eventually.
	So, okay, I relax some more, and I'm at the back of the truck, right?
	Yep.
	And then I relax some more, and then I'm back in myself.
	Back to yourself.
	Right, back to my body.
	Yes.
	So I relate this whole story to my buddy, and I tell him all the traffic I saw on the farmhouses and, you know... Can I make a guess?
	Shoot.
	You guys get to your destination, and your friend refuses to give you a gun.
	Oh, no.
	Well, he should have.
	So I just finished relating this whole story to him, right?
	Yes.
	And way off in the distance, there's a transport truck, and then the motorcycle, and then the farmhouse.
	Oh, man.
	So here comes everything you saw.
	Right.
	So one of the questions I was going to ask you was that, is that like, okay, like when you did that Paris trip, would you say that's sort of like when you're at... No, no.
	Between what occurred to me and what you have just described occurred to you, there is No relationship.
	Well, yeah, okay, but I mean just the whole idea about mapping the future, so to speak, like you go down the road, you map... Yeah, I get the spirit of everything you say.
	Is an out-of-body experience, or can it be actually traveling the future also?
	Would you call it that?
	Here's what I would say, that everybody that I have spoken with regarding out-of-body astral travel, whatever you want to call it, Says that there is not linear time nor space as we know it within the dimensions that we now live.
	So that when you're out of that, seeing the future, seeing time as depicted with this wonderful analogy of the road and what's down the road would be entirely possible.
	That's all I can tell you and that's all I know.
	And it was not at all like what happened to me, and only a Canadian can be laid back enough to tell a story the way he told it.
	And so, you know, I pushed back, and there I was in the back, and then I pushed up, and I was up on top, and then I was on the front near the headlights, and, you know, sort of matter-of-factly, if you will.
	Canadians are so laid back about things.
	Me?
	I would have totally freaked out.
	Completely freaked out if that happened to me.
	I never could have described it that way.
	Hey.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Oh, good evening.
	Let me turn my radio off.
	Good.
	Getting back to the dream subject.
	Oh, yes.
	I've had a life of sensitives around me and it's been about 45 years of different dreams.
	And even I was able to interpret one that saved my ex-husband's life.
	Anyway, the gentleman that was talking about Tornado Dream with no one listening.
	Yes.
	Reoccurring dreams are very important.
	They're like the Lord is telling you, because you're so busy, that sometimes the only way he can get through to you is through your dreams.
	Well, that's why I pressed the ladies a little bit about the possibility of it being Precognition?
	Well, sure, buddy.
	How?
	He dreamt of being in an airplane and crashing into a schoolyard over and over and over until it finally happened.
	And everything isn't symbolic.
	My daughter had a tornado dream for years until she was in one and then she didn't have them anymore.
	And the very fact that he is having this dream now, part of it's already materialized because no one is listening.
	They sure weren't.
	They're very personal.
	James are very personalized.
	Well, what's going on right now?
	Here's why it bothered me.
	Alright, I'll just lay it straight out for you.
	You've obviously seen, unless you've had your head in the sand, what's been going on in Georgia and the South in January and February, which never ever should be.
	And our weather is going bonkers.
	If somebody in Phoenix is dreaming about tornadoes... Really?
	You know, I'd like to say I'm surprised and that's silly because they don't have tornadoes in Phoenix.
	To which I would now add, usually.
	Mm-hmm.
	I appreciate the call.
	I mean, what else can you say?
	Hi there.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Oh, let me turn my radio down.
	Okay.
	Hey, you mentioned about that event on the Sun.
	I'm not by my computer now.
	I was there earlier in the evening.
	You're saying this occurred on the 17th?
	The 18th.
	Okay.
	That's right, because I was at 9 o'clock Pacific time.
	I was checking all the charts.
	I didn't see anything, any x-rays.
	You must be seeing it, because I know on your website you have that little solar watch panel.
	Yeah, it's not on that, although it may be.
	I don't know.
	I can only read you what, in fact, is reported in Space Science News for February 18th.
	Right, because that's obviously when that thing occurred, that X-ray flux, which is obviously the first thing that
	hit the planet.
	The first blast, yeah.
	Yeah, that thing must have just jumped.
	Do you remember when you had that article, you were discussing in May when the solar wind went to
	minus like 98 percent?
	It dropped.
	It almost stopped cold, actually.
	Right.
	I remember seeing that.
	It was phenomenal.
	You had a call the very next day at the top of the hour, unfortunately.
	And he was saying that if that did in fact occur, because he never saw the article, he was saying that all those particles that are normally supposed to be flowing out of the sun, if they got trapped in the sun due to some gravitational anomaly, that's Those particles would be cooking and cooking until some major event would release it.
	And then he was right at the top of the hour.
	He was going to go into the... Yeah, we're really off into conjecture territory.
	You know, the scientists really don't understand all of this.
	Right.
	But that's kind of huge, a full halo.
	Yeah, you can actually see they've got them.
	You know, if you take several GIF photographs, which they've got up there, and you put them in sequence, you can actually see the motion.
	And you can see this halo.
	Blasting away from the sun, so when you get near your computer, you've got to see this one.
	And I'll tell you too, and watch the events now the next couple days, because remember when there was that big, huge spike in our magnetic field?
	I sure do.
	Yeah, and just watch a couple days.
	Actually, it went straight off scale.
	They couldn't even measure it.
	Exactly, and you'll see all of a sudden there'll be either a run of six-point earthquakes or more, or you'll see the last solar storm we had, and there were the tornadoes in Georgia.
	You know, it doesn't really take a rocket scientist to figure out the connection here.
	Yeah.
	I have thought, for years and years and years, I've been connecting solar activities with earthquakes.
	That's my own little pet thing that I've been following for years.
	Yeah, you and me both, because of the fact that you just do the common sense.
	If you're taking on this type of energy, where is that energy going to go?
	Yeah.
	I talked to Jim Birkland about this, and he went, yeah.
	Right.
	It'll be interesting to watch the next few days in more ways than one.
	Yes, sir.
	Great show, Art.
	Right, thanks for the call.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Art?
	Yes?
	Listen, what you're experiencing is bleed-through from somebody else's dreams, somebody else's subconscious.
	You think so?
	Yeah, it's probably another member of your soul group.
	And what's happening is your psyche's reaching out to them for additional psychic energy.
	So if it's a contemporary process, you should try to seek that person out so you can pull your psychic energy.
	In fact, the process is actually called dream sharing.
	A lot of the indigenous peoples engage in it.
	There are so many details that checking this out, I mean really checking it out, if necessary getting on a plane and going to check it out, would be something I could do.
	Now, I haven't decided it's something I'm going to do.
	Uh-huh.
	Well, I would just follow, you know, You're feeling about it.
	Your intuition.
	And if it feels like something you think you should do, it may be happening for a person here.
	I mean, a purpose.
	You've got a lot of things going on in your life.
	You've got a lot of pressures and all.
	I do, yes.
	Maybe this extra psychic energy is there to help you.
	I hope so.
	You're my hero, man.
	The truth is out there.
	I'll put in a vote for that one, too.
	You're my hero.
	The truth is out there.
	If anybody finds it, it's going to be you.
	Thanks.
	Good luck, buddy.
	Later.
	Hey, Art.
	I made it through.
	Just barely.
	I mean, we're almost out of time here.
	This is Mike Imchula, Washington State.
	Yes, sir.
	Yes, sir.
	Hey, I just wanted to say on those black triangles... Oh, yes.
	I saw one in 1982.
	Well, then you are a constituent of Peter Gerstens and causes.
	This was strange.
	It was at a carnival on a golf course in New York State.
	As good a place as any, I guess.
	Yeah, it came over a...
	Well, it kind of like hovered over a patch of trees and it stopped right above me and three other people.
	We just looked up at it for, I don't know how long.
	It just, I mean, kind of grew small.
	Oh, you heard probably Peter Gersten, didn't you?
	Earlier, yes.
	You know, the guy going to court about the black triangles?
	Yeah.
	When the government comes back, Uh, and they have to lay all this evidence on the table of the search they did in the emails and all the stuff the judge wants?
	Mm-hmm.
	What do you think they'll have in their hot little palms?
	Uh, I think maybe just, uh, oh, there had to have been thousands and thousands and thousands of people that see these things.
	You know, and if it's our military crap, then obviously we got the power to go to the stores, because I saw that thing take off.
	I don't disagree with one word you're saying, but what I'm asking, though, again, Is what you think the government will come back with?
	I think they might come back with some, you know, people filing reports.
	And that's about it.
	You know what I mean?
	Of course I know what you mean.
	And nothing else.
	Listen, file this report for me right now.
	Tell everybody goodnight.
	Yeah, goodnight America and the rest of the world.
	Watch out for those blacked out stars.
	Indeed, watch out.
	Alright, folks.
	For me, for this week, that's it.
	I'm Art Bell from the high desert, where it's been raining and will again soon, and the sun's coming.

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