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Feb. 17, 2000 - Art Bell

02:43:00

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Katia Romanoff, Lauri Quinn Loewenberg, Lawrence Notts - Dead Spirits and Bizarre Dreams

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01:11:48

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast A.M. from the 17th of February, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest.
		Good evening or good morning, wherever you may be across this great land of ours, stretching from the Hawaiian and Eastern Island chain, southwest, eastward to the Caribbean, and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south, and the South American North, all the way to the Pole and worldwide on the internet.
		It's coast to coast A.M. and I'm Mark Bell.
		And in a moment, we're going to tell you a ghost story.
		There are two gentlemen in West Virginia who are going to tell you what's going on back there right now.
		Something that happened in the past.
unidentified		Something going on right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So all of that directly ahead, and then we'll talk about dreams a little bit later.
		Because as you know, I've been having some pretty weird ones.
		We've got a lot to do tonight, so in a moment we get underway in West Virginia.
unidentified		We've got a lot to do tonight.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from the 17th of February, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music All right, now we're about to go to West Virginia because I received the following, in part the following email.
		My friend Lawrence has an entity or entities now in his house.
		They touch him.
		They create chaos at night.
		But not every night.
		I've had personally, that's a writer of this facts, three experiences with it or them myself while watching TV playing cards.
		And the first time I visited his house, we're old friends.
		We go back to grade school together.
		Only recently got together for motorcycle rides on Sundays.
		And so without taking you through this secondhand, which there's much more obviously in the email, I called these two gentlemen, and here they are.
		And I want to be sure it's okay to use your last names before I use them.
		I have Lawrence with me.
		Good morning, Lawrence.
unidentified		Yeah, that'll be fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, your name then is Lawrence Knotts, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And where are you, Lawrence?
unidentified		Not traded in Barbara County, West Virginia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West Virginia.
		All right, and your friend, Sonny.
		Sonny, are you there?
unidentified		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, and where are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How far away?
unidentified		Oh, about five miles, Nestorville.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Five miles away.
		All right.
		What I heard earlier today when I talked to you, Lawrence, I thought was horrifying.
		You said, you told me, I guess you listened to me at night because you can't sleep at night anyway.
		Is that right?
unidentified		True.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can't sleep.
unidentified		The signal's only occasional at my location.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You told me things, entities, something, even would go so far as to gouge at your eyes?
unidentified		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long has this been going on, Lawrence?
unidentified		Approximately three years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Three years.
		You've been living in a haunted house for three years.
		How did it begin?
unidentified		Well, I had sold some piece of timber that had an Indian grave on it, and the week I sold it something showed up in my house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now wait a minute.
		Let me get this straight.
		You sold a piece of, you said timber?
		You mean like land with timber?
unidentified		Yeah, I inherited the property.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I sold the timber off of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, so in other words, you still own the property, but you allowed them to cut the timber.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One week later, it begins.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What began to happen?
unidentified		Well, first of all, I was laying in bed, had my left arm sticking out over the edge of the bed, relaxing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		May I stop you and ask you, are you married?
unidentified		No, I'm divorced.
unidentified		You're divorced.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so you live alone?
unidentified		I do now.
		The problem, I did have my mother living with me, and the thing got to attacking her, and she left.
		She messed with my girlfriend, and she took off.
		I messed with my daughters, and they took off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this has really ruined your life then, hasn't it?
unidentified		It's made it very trying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Anyway, so here you are a week later, your hands hanging off the bed, which a lot of people do when they're asleep.
		Were you awake or asleep?
unidentified		I was definitely awake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Definitely awake.
unidentified		I just laid down in three minutes of laying down, and I was definitely awake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what happened?
unidentified		Something grabbed my arm, felt like a person's hand grabbed me by the wrist.
		And I immediately took my right hand because my left hand was laying out over the edge of the bed, and I took my right hand and tried to grab what had me.
		No avail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Natural reaction, yeah.
		That's what you try to do.
		Of course, you reach right around immediately, and you couldn't grab anything.
		Like, you know, what?
unidentified		I didn't strike nothing with my right hand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was the pressure still on your left hand?
unidentified		It released when I grabbed for it.
		It released off my left hand.
		My left wrist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		It was kind of then, hello there.
		I'm here.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Something like that?
unidentified		It didn't speak at that time.
		It didn't make no noise at that time, but I got up and went through the house and checked everything, and everything was peaceful and quiet like it should have been.
		back to bed.
		Decided, well, I'll throw the other arm out on the other side of the bed and see what happens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, did you now?
		See, now I wouldn't have done that.
		I'd have been scared, you know what, Liz.
		And so I wouldn't have done that.
		But you did that.
		You put the other arm out.
		Yeah, I was pretty gutsy.
unidentified		And something grabbed it on the other side of the bed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And then my fright level went through the rib.
		But I got to thinking just a second that maybe this is something good, a good spirit.
		I'm a God-fearing man, and I believe in the Bible and stuff and things it says.
		And I thought maybe it was a messenger from God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lawrence, how old are you?
unidentified		49.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		49.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you working or?
unidentified		I'm currently disabled.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're disabled.
		All right.
		And you obviously have some independent means, I guess, property, money left to you by relatives, that kind of thing, so you're okay.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		All right, so then what?
		I mean, what next?
		And where did this go?
		Three years is a long time.
unidentified		Yeah, well, I asked her, I thought maybe it was good.
		I said, if you're good, touch my hand.
		And then grab me by the arm.
		I said, if you're good, touch my hand.
		And grabbed me by the arm again.
		Slid right down to my wrist and stopped.
		I said, well, if you're definitely bad, hit me on the hand.
		He hit me on the hand three times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He hit you on the hand.
unidentified		three times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I say he'd be Or maybe you don't.
unidentified		You know, it covers everything.
unidentified		But it I nicknamed it Taz.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		After a while, it Taz, you called the ghost Taz?
unidentified		Yeah.
		Because it would make Sophie do anything that it didn't like.
		It'd make grumbling noises like that little cartoon character the kids watches.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Grumbling noises?
unidentified		Yeah.
		Sort of modeled to where you couldn't understand.
		It sounded like it might have been either Indian or Latin or something, but it wasn't English at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, not English.
unidentified		Not English.
unidentified		And by trial and error, it went along for a while, and by trial and error, during the lightning storm, I realized it was giving me bits all night long and trying to yank me out of bed and pulling my hair and all kinds of crazy stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What, now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yanked you off the bed?
unidentified		Yeah, they actually kicked or done something to the bed, threw me in the mattress both halfway off once.
unidentified		Good Lord.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, a lot of people, obviously, you know Lawrence, are going to say, this guy's crackers.
		That's going to be some of the reaction out there in the audience.
		And that's why I had your friend come on tonight, the fellow who contacted me, Sonny.
		Let's break the story for a second.
		Sonny?
		Yes.
		You know Lawrence is telling the truth, don't you?
unidentified		Well, yes, now.
		At first, I was out there with the Cracker people, maybe.
		We traveled together for a while, and he kept talking about it and everything, and I hadn't had any experience, and then I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What happened?
unidentified		Well, we had taken 98 Summer to ride bikes on Sundays, and I had recently went up to a flea market up at Elkins and bought a nice leather hat, and I never took it off except to eat and everything.
		It was my favorite hat.
		But I went down there on a Sunday evening, and he had the family in, and I just was speaking with him this afternoon, and he said, well, that was a family reunion going on, and that was the aftermath of it.
		I went into the house because I didn't go to his house.
		In all the summer, I did not go to his house because of that.
		And I'm a God-fearing man.
		I went down there, and he had some people down there, and he'll tell you the story about it.
		But the person I hadn't seen for a long time, Kenny and his wife, since high school.
		So I left the house, and a couple days later, I went, what the heck did I do with that hat?
		And I left it down there.
		Now, that might be a mundane thing for someone at all.
		You just bought a hat, you've left it there.
		But something drew me to the house that evening.
		I don't know why.
		I left the hat.
		So the following Saturday I called, and his mother answered the phone, and I asked her about this thing.
		She said, well, something really did happen that Sunday night, really terrible.
		And I said, well, I need my hat.
		I said, have you ever had any experiences about this?
		His mother Orpha.
		And she had.
		And she said, it went into her legs and done some other things with the grandchildren and everything.
		And so I got kind of nervous and I went down to the preacher down here and had a couple crosses anointed and carried one in my pocket and left one on top of the bed just to be safe.
		Maybe that's overly safe.
		But, you know, if you believe in one spirit, you've got to believe in good and bad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do what you believe.
unidentified		Yeah, you can't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have no problem with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you armed yourself.
unidentified		I armed myself.
		I went back, got my hat.
		That was the first experience that I figured out later that had to do something because they can play mind games.
		And I found that out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you ever observe any of the goings-on of the sort that Lawrence is telling us about?
unidentified		Well, he showed me two nights of videos in one night.
unidentified		If you understand that, he showed me two videotapes of a lengthy time when he was retiring.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And he showed me the first one, and these are at length, and they're very boring.
unidentified		I hate to say this large, but they're very boring.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he was probably videotaping himself in bed.
unidentified		Yes, he was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was boring to watch that.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And the first one, I watched the bed move up and down, and I said, Hey, that's the autofocus doing that.
		Trouble was the only portion of the bed would move slowly up and down, and nothing was causing the focus to move.
		Nothing else you could.
		Usually, you can hear the mechanical part of the camera doing that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
unidentified		And it wasn't.
unidentified		So the next film.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, moreover, more importantly, if the only part of the picture that was moving was the bed up and down, not the whole picture, then you've got a legitimate shot.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		The next one that he showed me was you had to look very closely, but the thing was moving over across him and he was talking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The entity was moving.
unidentified		Well, whatever you call it, because there was fuzzy on the film.
unidentified		And this man is, I've known him for a long time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean by fuzzy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where it was moving.
unidentified		Oh, it was.
unidentified		Yeah, like the size of a, about triple the size of a basketball.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lawrence, you didn't tell me you had videotape evidence.
unidentified		I hadn't got that far yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you watched all this, Sonny, how did you react?
unidentified		Well, by the end of it, well, of course I was surprised, but I was also very tired.
		So it took a while to kick it in.
		So the next week when we went riding, we discussed it at a place we stopped to dine.
		And it spoke me out.
		But the second time was most recently, probably about two months ago, I was down there and we was watching something.
		I don't know.
		I like science fiction.
		I like action movies.
		And we was watching something.
		And I was sitting there and all of a sudden in my right nostril, I jumped up and Lawrence said, what's wrong?
		And I was trying to remove something from my nose.
		And I know that sounds gross.
		But do you know those worms?
		I guess, I don't know if they're in the western United States or not.
		They call them a woolly worm.
		I don't know the scientific name for them, but they often have black on them and different stripes of brown.
		And some people say you can tell the length of the season.
		Are you talking about these worms, all little tiny legs or with no legs at all?
		Well, they're a very spiny fur on them.
		And when you hold them, they curl up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know what you're talking about.
unidentified		Okay, well, anyway, and that's what it felt like was in my right nostril immediately.
		Didn't crawl up there or anything, just immediately was there.
		And my eyes were watering.
		I made it to the bathroom, and I tried to remove this thing by every means which you can feel imaginable, and I sounded awful in there and everything.
		And so I just excused myself, and I left because I was told not to entertain or identify anything like that if it was evil.
		Just don't talk to it, just leave.
		So I left.
		That was about two months ago.
		And only about two weeks ago, I was sitting with playing cards, and my girlfriend Jean was there.
		And I smoked a cigar, and on occasion, cigars can burn your eyes.
		Well, in a certain way, they burn your eyes.
		But they don't feel like a pin pricking right straight into your eye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
unidentified		And this is what happened to my left eye first, and within a matter of seconds, my left eye, then my right eye.
unidentified		And it hurt at that time when it felt like it pricked my eye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like somebody was putting a pin in your eye.
unidentified		Yes.
		And then it just quit.
		It wasn't something that stayed there because everybody has pains in their eyes on occasion.
		And this wasn't a normal thing.
		But that was the third occasion.
		And I don't know, and I still wouldn't identify it.
		And only last week, my girlfriend, John, she wanted to leave early.
		She got spooked, so we left early.
		And I don't know.
		sounds like lawrence has lost just about everybody close to him in his life over this thing is that I kept trying to find out about a professor, a woman that was a professor up here at West Virginia University had died after a time that I think I might have a story wrong, but these people that were there that Sunday that I left,
		my hat, he'll have to tell you a story because I don't want to tell it second-handed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		So I hope you understand the reason I wanted to bring you on, Sonny, was so that the people understood what Lawrence is saying is known to be true by more than just Lawrence.
		Because, you know, incredible stories and incredible proof and all that sort of thing.
		And you guys are eyewitnesses.
		So what you have said and what you have done for Lawrence as he continues the story is very important, Sonny.
		Do you have more you want to add, or is that about it?
		And should I go to Lawrence?
unidentified		You should go to Lawrence at this time because he's got some amazing things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Sonny, thank you.
		Thank you very much on behalf of Sonny and myself.
		I mean, Lawrence and myself.
		And we'll be back with Lawrence.
		So, Sonny, thank you.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Lawrence, you stay on the line.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Three years.
		I don't know if I'd stay in that for three years.
		How about you?
unidentified		This is Premier Networks.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		on this somewhere in time And in the springtime of the year, when the trees around the leaves, In the ash and oak and the bird on you, and dressing ribbons fear.
		And out cold, the breathless moon.
		In the moving of the night.
		The shadows of the dreams appear.
		And meets the lantern light.
		Be perfect of the night.
		some Be it sun, sand, smell, touch, something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of the touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak when you're deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing, to lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing, all these things in our memory soul when the universe comes up
		this way, it's my favorite, take a place of street, it's my fear.
		I will burn the strength of the years Sweat so hard just to end my fears And to end my life in all my hands But by now, by now, I shall not grow Oh, oh, oh, oh You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from the 17th of February 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Lawrence Knotts in West Virginia, who lives now alone in a home where he's lost everything because of an entity, because of a ghost, because of I don't know what it is.
		But I am sufficiently convinced that his friend examined physical evidence that obviously we're going to ask for a copy of You Cap.
		And we're going to now hear the rest of the story from Lawrence Orr in a moment.
unidentified		So stay right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Back now to my guest, Lawrence in West Virginia.
		Okay, Lawrence, we're back on the air again.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I didn't know you had videotaped, Lawrence.
		Is there a way we can get copies of those?
unidentified		Well, probably.
unidentified		I don't have nothing to copy of myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, maybe you can work it out with Sonny or somebody else because obviously we'd love to have copies.
		This is real important stuff.
		Now, for you, I guess a horror.
		You lost your mom.
		She left.
		Your fiancé, you said, left.
		That's a horror in itself.
		Tell me something, Lawrence.
		Why haven't you left?
unidentified		Well, I lived here for 28 years, and I built the place up myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you built the house?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		If this had happened to me someplace else, I'd have been gone before the sun rose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear that.
unidentified		But when you're at home and you're used to having a home and raised to a home's important, it just seemed like not an option to give up on the home.
unidentified		Most people said you ought to leave and stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you've talked to a lot of people about this.
unidentified		Yes, I have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One of the things, I mean, your mom, for goodness sake, what specifically do you think scared her so much she finally left?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, why?
unidentified		Well, I'd experienced it being them things that didn't like light because during the lightning storm, lightning flash said, let me say you can go under the bed and raise the bed up and down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So not just your bed, but your mom's, too?
unidentified		Well, it didn't get to her for a while.
unidentified		When it did, she was out of here the next day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, me too, Lawrence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I'm sure you're a great child and your mother loves you, but when my bed went into the air, I'd be out the door.
unidentified		This thing had the capabilities of inflicting pain on you.
unidentified		Like, you're like a Charlie horse in your leg.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I'd found out what it had been doing to me, and I told my mother how to break it.
		If it got a hold of you, to shine a bright flashlight over it, and it couldn't take it.
		And it released its hold on you.
		So I told her, and she thought it was, she kept her bright flashlight in the bed with her.
		And one night it did, and she had to use the flashlight so it felt like it was going to tear all the bones out of her leg.
		And she shined the flashlight on it, and it backed off, which that's the pattern I've been using on, using bright light against it to try to fight the thing with, because there ain't a whole lot you can do to a monkey from hell like that to discourage it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's when she left?
unidentified		Yeah, the next day she packed up and moved out.
unidentified		She was the last one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The last one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then even before that, you said was it your fiancé?
unidentified		Yeah, it had messed with her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This gal was living in the house with you as you.
unidentified		Well, she was living here beside him, and she was over here a lot of the time, but when that thing messed with her, she moved out.
unidentified		What did she say to you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With her, was it the same thing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, was it rocking her bed?
unidentified		What main thing it was doing to her was causing her pain in different parts of her body.
		When I wasn't in the room or something.
		Or even if I was in the room, she'd say, Ouch, quit pincing me.
		I said, I ain't pincing you.
		She said, Sorry, something got a hold of me.
		And a few rounds of that, she she went to another territory.
		She said she might come back and see me someday in the during the daylight hours, but she wasn't gonna let the sun set on her here again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not in the darkness.
unidentified		Not in the dark, because them things is really active in the darkness.
		I'll tell you, I've finally got rid of one, and I got a girl that exercised it out of the house.
		One.
		One.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you now believe there are, what, more, there's more than one?
unidentified		There was two sent back to replace it.
		She told me that she had been learning this exorcism and said, no, I've got to warn you that you may get two back and place it.
		One.
		If I do defeat it and get it out of here, there'll be some more sent to replace it.
		Could be some more sent to replace it.
		She said, I don't know.
		Said, only time will tell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So she came, she did an exorcism, that spirit left, and two more arrived.
unidentified		Yes, it did.
unidentified		And when they arrived, they arrived very violently.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How so?
unidentified		All the doors started opening and slamming in the house, and doors started moving.
		Furniture was moving around.
		And I tried to go to bed, and the mirrors were shaking and rattling on the walls.
		The walls were rattling.
		I tried to go to bed.
		It just felt like a pack of dogs jumped on me and started biting me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy smokes, Lawrence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you were using the tried to use the light?
unidentified		I used the flashlight.
		It just back off as I hooked up a 750,000 candle power spotlight for open air or open country spotting, and I used to hook that up to bed, and I used it.
		It had a lot of power, and I'd tip it over back and forth in the room, and they would back off.
		But as soon as I dropped the light off of them, they'd start again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then how, Lawrence, do you sleep at night?
unidentified		Well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, it's like they're waiting for you, and you can hold them off, but if you go to sleep, you're not holding them off, right?
unidentified		Well, right.
		If they want to give you problems, I've found things that discourage them, but the present I have two party strobes.
		You know, you've seen a strobe light for parties?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
unidentified		I've got one of them on each side of the bed that I turn on when I go to bed, and I put a blind fold on so I can sleep.
		And those things do not like that strobe light so that maybe five or ten minutes is all there'll be there.
		But one comes between two o'clock and three o'clock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the morning.
unidentified		In the morning, yeah.
unidentified		And the other one usually shows up about ten o'clock, and he's the one that likes to poke you in the eyes, so you can't even watch television.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		actually physically poking you in the eyes of that kind of like sunny uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		described having him when you Regular to be poked in the eyes.
unidentified		Yeah, that's virtually every night thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Every night.
unidentified		And they raised my bed up and down, and the new thing that they started recently was scratching the bed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Scratching the bed you're on.
unidentified		Yeah, scratching it and then scratching the wall the side of it.
		I've got a pretty good nerve around it, but that frightens me.
		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have they ever left physical evidence of what they've done other than what you have on videotape, which is really something you're to be commended for doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What drove you, by the way, to finally do that, to set up videotape?
unidentified		Well, everyone that talked to, well, not everyone, but a majority of the people I talked to thought I was losing my mind.
unidentified		I need my medicine change and another.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this is not a rude question, but did you ever ask yourself the same question anytime during all this?
unidentified		Yeah, but when I started messing with other people, doing things to my daughters and stuff, and one girl wasn't no relative to us, was here one night.
		She ran her mouth about, I told her, this thing, that's when Taz was still here before he'd been cast out.
		And I said, Taz is up and about.
		And he always pulled the hair above my right ear when he wanted me to know he was around.
		And I went out of state and stuff.
		And when the sun went down, Taz would pull my hair.
		I tried three different states.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pulling your hair.
unidentified		Yeah, he'd pull my hair above my right ear to let me know he was there.
		That was his trademark before he'd start any of his stuff.
		But the thing of it is, they've got so much static electricity that I took a compass.
		That girl who took the one out of here said that there's a possibility I might sense this much activity here that she wouldn't come back and work on it anymore because she said it caused her problems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You took a compass in there like an electromagnetic compass?
unidentified		Yeah, and she said to check out the house and round through the yard and see if there's a portal with the hell around and said they're magnetic.
		I said, well, can't hurt nothing.
		So I took it and checked down through the yard and around the house and then through the house and it continued to point to north.
		But when I went to last night, when I went to bed, I decided to take it with me and just watch it and see if they could tell anything.
		And sure enough, I could hear something coming down the hall, beating the hall wall.
		And when it got to my door, it just suddenly stepped into my door, that needle on that compass pointed towards that door.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Directly at the door.
unidentified		Yeah, and as soon as come around the bed and started shaking the left side of the bed and messing with the bed and coming up towards me, that needle followed it just like it just located it just like it was pointing to north, only it ignored north and went to that thing.
		And it has so much energy that the hair especially has, the hair will stand up on you and point towards them.
		You can feel them when they get close to you.
		Your hair is like, just like static electricity, it'll just draw you.
		You can feel at your hair and it'll be pointing in that direction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good heavens, to Betsy.
		So the compass would indicate to you the direction the entity was moving, and there was so much static electricity.
		It just your hair pulled just like the compass indicated.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
		And it has tremendous power.
		One night there was something come in there, a guy.
		Anyway, a guy told me he had a ghost problem.
		He had a dog, but a couple of dogs would chase him until they got him out of the house, and he got along all right.
		So I got one of these, I bought one of these dogs and put that in there.
		It actually would chase the entities around through the house when they'd come to the bed in there to meet them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really, really?
unidentified		But eventually it helped me get a wild, but it eventually got run over at the car.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The dog did?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was about to ask Lawrence, when the dog chased the entity, did the entity run from it or move from it?
unidentified		The first ones there did.
		But something came in once there.
		I called it last, but I called it the boss bugger.
		And it came into the room and the dog was on the bed barking because the dog could hear him and the dog would go off and rip up and down through the hallway, snapping, cracking his teeth at him.
		But anyway, this one night, there was something with a lot of power came there because I had the ceiling fan on and the dog laying on the foot of the bed with me and I heard something in the hallway cracking and beating around and the dog raised up and started to barking.
		And the ear just died in there.
		I had the ceiling fan on and I looked at the dog and his mouth was working but there wasn't nothing coming out.
		It was the ear had just died.
		Something had so much power killed the ear.
		I couldn't hear the dog a-barking and I couldn't hear the ceiling fan a going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, this dog was obviously barking because that's what dogs do when they open their mouth, but there was no sound coming out.
unidentified		Right, you couldn't hear no sound.
		And that really creeped me up.
		I grabbed my spotlight and kept it going.
		My arm had got targeted.
		I kept switching arms till this thing finally left.
		But then before it left, I coaxed the dog backed up towards me, towards my head, and I finally coaxed him into going after it and towed him over that way and told him to get it.
		And that thing grabbed the dog and threw it down the hallway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Threw the dog down the hallway.
unidentified		Threw the dog down the hallway.
		He wouldn't go under the couch.
		He wouldn't come back out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand how the dog feels or felt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You say your dog was killed by a car.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think this entity had anything to do with that?
unidentified		Very doubtful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think it just might have been a coincidence?
unidentified		Yeah, I think that was a coincidence.
		Their main gig is to stress you till you can't sleep.
		During the day, they don't mess with you.
		And whenever you try to lay down and get some rest of the night, that's when they start their problems.
		And I've got so I don't go to bed until 3 o'clock, after their monkey business is over with, and then I sleep, and then the next day, it's got my life turned to half a turnout on the clock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, Lawrence, I just, I don't know if I could go through what you're going through.
		It's still happening.
		Does it happen every day, every other day, once a week?
unidentified		Yeah, no, it happens every night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Every night?
unidentified		Every night.
unidentified		Well, recently, I think last week it skipped one night, and maybe it was two nights last week it skipped, but that's the first time it skipped since this stuff started three years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably doesn't make much difference to you because you've got to assume it's there if it's there every other night.
unidentified		Yeah, so even when don't get to shake in the bed, that thing can actually read your thoughts.
		Now, the Bible says, guard well your thoughts, because even your thoughts is heard in heaven.
		So I thought that was a little bit extreme.
		But that thing I can think, if I'm laying in the bed and I want to know if it's around, my person lay down or something, if it's still there, all I have to do is just think, monkey, don't you shake the bed, and that bed will start up and down.
		I don't have to say nothing.
		All I have to do is just think it.
		And that thing can hear your thoughts just like if they were, just as if he was talking out loud.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lawrence, this is an important question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you given any consideration to whether this entity might just, I'm just asking this, Lawrence, might be you?
unidentified		Well, I mean, it means two different things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, I guess, you know, telepathy, you might be, yeah, saying, go ahead, mentally, shake the bed, and it shakes the bed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But doesn't that leave open slightly the possibility that this power is coming, emanating from you?
unidentified		Well, it sounds like it might, but I really don't think that it is because I found one thing that, two things that works on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Lawrence, I'm going to have to hold you over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you stay on the air with me?
unidentified		Yeah, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then.
		We're going to delay our coming up guests, And we'll keep Lawrence on for a while.
		What you're hearing is obviously a real ghost story that's happening now in West Virginia, and we'll get more of it when we get back in a moment.
unidentified		The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		More Somewhere in Time coming up.
		It's like mad in its feelings.
		It's magic You And you'll see to satisfy You took me Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh I am a family thing.
		It's a gaming thing to do.
		It's a terrible thing to lose.
		It's a given thing.
		What a terrible thing to lose.
		What a terrible thing to lose.
		Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		We're in the middle of a ghost story, a real one.
		My guest is Lawrence Knott.
		He's in West Virginia.
		He's disabled.
		He built the house that he lives in.
		He recently, well, I guess actually three years ago now, allowed a timber company to come in and cut the timber on his land, land he owns, but land which was Native American land, apparently, at one time.
		And immediately following that, he began to get haunted.
		And when I say haunted, I mean what he's had to say has been incredible.
		He would lay his arm off the bed, and something unseen would grab it, like another arm or hand grabbing you, grab hold of him.
		He tried it again, it happened again.
		There's quite a, I just can't encapsulate the entire thing, but it happened to his mother.
		She took off.
		It happened to his fiancé.
		She took off.
		I had Sonny Nestor in West Virginia, who's a friend of Lawrence's, on the air last hour, and he verified what Lawrence is telling me.
		Lawrence has had his eyes gouged, people sticking pins in your eyes.
		He's had his bed rise up off the floor.
		He's got videotapes of all of this.
		So why is Lawrence there?
		Well, Lawrence built his house.
		It's his house.
		He's not going to leave.
		He had an exorcism performed.
		One spirit left the home, but two came back.
		Light seems to affect them.
		He's rigged up strobe lights.
		He's got flashlights.
		He had his mother using flashlights and his fiancé.
		And finally, they excuse the expression, gave up the ghost and left.
		We'll go back to Lawrence in West Virginia in a moment.
unidentified		Psh Psh For more information, visit www.
unidentified		offers from space available at www.zeviljaelsoftware.com You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from the 17th of February, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These now entities, two of them, are able to be tracked in two ways.
		Lawrence has had a compass, and as these entities move about the room, the compass follows them.
		His dog, until the dog was killed, would chase these entities.
		The compass would follow them around the room, and the compass would just move around.
		His hair would stand up, moving in the direction of the entities.
		It's just an amazing story.
		This man is living with all of this right now.
		Lawrence, are you there?
		Yeah.
		Okay.
		You had something you wanted to continue with when we broke at the hour.
unidentified		Yeah, you'd ask me a question there.
unidentified		I thought maybe it might be a mind thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, your mind, because you said you could suggest to it with your mind mentally shake the bed in the bed with Sarge.
unidentified		Yeah, well, the thing that was messed with other people and the exorcist came here that I invited, she had no trouble finding it.
		In the house, she kept wherever it was at the air.
		The air would get real cold.
		Wherever it is, you got close to it.
		The air was real cold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that happens too?
unidentified		Yeah, and it's you can't see it.
unidentified		But if it wants you to know it's there, it'll start arresting it up to you recognize it or so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With the exception of a a couple of days or every now and then this has been happening to you every night for three years?
unidentified		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ever since you cut that wood?
unidentified		Yeah, well, yeah.
		It started before actually the timber cutting was done.
		It started the week that I sold the timber off of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you mean when you signed the contract to have the timber cut?
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		That's the week it started.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're pretty sure that was Native American land previous to your ownership?
unidentified		Yeah, I even I was told there's Indian graves there and you can see where they're at.
unidentified		The people that owned it back two or three generations ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, it's not just Indian land.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's Indian, it's Indian burial ground.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Oh.
		My family showed me where my uncle did a heritage off of where the Indian graveyard was.
		And his, back in his recollection, they was the people that owned the land, he bought it off of some other people that owned the land a couple of generations down, but them guys, there was some boys in that family, and they went and dug them Indian graves up.
		And there was about four out of six of them died in a mental institution.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Four of the six who dug these graves up on that land?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel, Lawrence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old are you, Lawrence?
unidentified		I'm 49.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		49.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		During any of this, Lawrence, did you worry that you might get killed?
unidentified		Well, yes, it was frightful.
		After Codd Barker, I sort of tried to laugh it off, and he said, don't take this as a joke.
		He said, these things, when they show up, he said, there more showed up in the United States this year than ever before.
		But he said, when they get started playing mind games with you, he said, they'll kill you.
		He said, it's not unusual to have several people killed where these things is at.
		And that gave me a new outlook on things.
		And I said, well, what can I do to save myself?
		He said, I can't guarantee you nothing, but wear a cross.
		He said, everybody that messes with demon ghosts wears crosses.
		And he said, I can't guarantee you it will keep you alive.
		But he said, that's my best advice to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is Clive Barker saying this?
		Yeah.
		You're a religious man, Lawrence, aren't you?
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of background?
unidentified		Oh, Brethren and I switched over to Pentecostal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pentecostal.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of Pentecostals in the West Virginia area, huh?
		Right.
		So, what about your church?
		You must have gone to them.
		You must have gone to your church.
unidentified		Yeah, I did.
		That's the first place I went.
		I talked to my minister and asked if he had any experience with ghosts, and he said no.
		I said, well, how about studying up on it?
		Because I think I've got one down here for sure, and I'm going to need help to get it out of there.
		I thought maybe a simple exorcism would do the job.
		I had no idea how much problem I was going to have.
		I thought maybe if a preacher came and prayed over the house, prayed through the house and what have you, and ordered it out of there, it would stay out.
		But that was to no avail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have these entities spoken to you?
unidentified		They make a noise.
		It sounds like a television or a radio on another room.
		And if you go to that room, it'll sound like the room you come out of.
		But I have had them get on each side of the bed and communicate back and forth with each other from both sides of the bed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Never anything directly said to you, though, that you understood, you know, as in English?
unidentified		No, just a modeled sound.
		It just sounds like something on the radio that you can't completely hear the words to.
		You can hear the tone, the voice tone, but you can't hear the detail of the...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you want to tell us what town you're in there in West Virginia?
unidentified		Well, my address is Moatsville.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, don't give me your address.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just tell me what town you're in.
unidentified		Moatsville.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you spell that?
unidentified		M-O-A-T-S-V-I-L-L-E.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do it again slowly, please.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		M is in Mary.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		O-O-A-T-S-B-I-L-L-E.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Movesville, West Virginia.
		All right.
		Small town.
unidentified		Yeah, community.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you live kind of in a rural area, woods all around you, timber all around you, that kind of thing, huh?
unidentified		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much land do you own there?
unidentified		What my house plot's on, about eight acres, but I own about 75 up on the home place that I inherited.
unidentified		And that's where the graveyard down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's where the graveyard is, and that's where the timber was cut, right?
unidentified		Yeah, I was pretty sure that they had something to do with it.
		And I was out there deer hunting, and something, felt like something slapped me.
		I didn't see nothing there.
		And I said, hey, has this got anything to do with my ghost problem?
		Slapped me again.
		And I was looking down there where the graveyard was at, and the timber cutters had cut a lot of trees into it and really trashed it up.
		And I said, do you want that graveyard cleaned up?
		And that thing slapped me twice real quick.
		And I said, I can understand that.
		So I took 17 truckloads of firewood out of that graveyard, took all the brush out of it and planted pine trees around it, made it look real nice, and put up a permanent stainless steel sign and marketed it as a graveyard.
		You did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When did you do this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long ago?
unidentified		That was last winter.
unidentified		I finished it last winter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Last winter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And still it happens to you?
unidentified		Yeah, I was fairly certain that it would go away whenever I got that graveyard cleaned up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it didn't.
unidentified		It didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, what's the worst of what's happened to you?
		Eyes are gouged like needles being pushed into your eyes.
		You said your bed, you've got videotape of it coming up off of the ground, moving.
		You've got videotape of this entity which is not quite visible, but you could sort of see the fuzz you said on the videotape where it was moving.
		Is that right?
unidentified		Like a mirage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like a mirage.
unidentified		How heat and mirage dance and stuff, you can't get a detail on the focus of it.
		Sure.
		Everything else in the room was...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And is that essentially the same thing that you see with your eyes when you see it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or do you see more?
unidentified		I don't see it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you don't see it at all?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You just feel it.
unidentified		You just feel it.
		Even the Bible says that you can't see the spirit, just the results of it.
		So I've never been able to see anything, not even a shadow or anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has it done any permanent physical harm to you?
unidentified		Well, the most thing it's done is probably spirit ten years off my life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Scared 10 years off your life.
unidentified		Because it is a frightening experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But even though, you know, this is your house, you built it, I understand that, but at the time your mom leaves, at the time your fiancé leaves, by then, your life's kind of falling apart around you over this thing.
		And it must take an awful lot of will or stubbornness, I don't know what you are, willful or stubborn or both, to stay there.
		And I don't know what you're trying to do now.
		Make peace with it?
		Fight it out?
unidentified		What?
		Basically, I'm trying to outlast it.
		And then hope to get target and go away.
		I've been hoping that for quite a while, but I found something recently, in all honesty, that has helped me survive with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that is what?
unidentified		I found that if it comes into the room and messes with the bed, if I start praising the Lord, it can't hurt me or nothing.
		It can't punch and gouge on me.
		It'll shake the bed, but it can't touch me as long as I'm praising the Lord.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has it left marks on you before?
unidentified		Yeah.
		Not real heavy ones, but just prints and stuff like where it's like where I grabbed you.
		You know how you squeeze something real hard and it'll leave red marks?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I've had red marks and stuff left on me.
		And to be honest with you, I've got some nerve pills.
		Deal helped me deal with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You got some nerve pills.
unidentified		It really stresses your nerves to deal with something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you go to the doctor about this?
unidentified		Yeah.
		What did he say, Lawrence?
		Basically, he said, listen, tell me, the doctor is a woman, but she said, well, she said, I can give you something to help relieve the stress in your life.
		She said, I can give you medicine for that, but as far as medicine for that ghost problem you've got, they don't make nothing for that.
		But she said, I can give you some stress-relieving pills.
		So that helps my nerve, and it helps to keep me from getting my nerve shot so bad that my nervous system overloads or anything.
		I've come to the conclusion, too, that through time and experience, that I just can't get sleep before 3 o'clock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He stays awake with lights, folks.
		We had some people join at the top of this last hour with lights, which will kind of keep these things at bay, but they're not gone.
		They're just waiting.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if he allows darkness to occur, they start in on him.
		Now, I'll tell you something, Lawrence.
		I was talking to my wife, who knows something about this sort of thing.
		And she said you're going to have to make peace with these Native Americans, with the spirits, somehow.
		She suggested that you do a planting there as a gesture, you know, plant trees, I don't know, trees something.
unidentified		I did that around the graveyard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's what I've just heard this last half hour, and so I'm a little bit unsure.
		I'm unsure of what to tell you to do.
		Um...
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think I would like to see those videotapes.
		You know, to a lot of people, Lawrence, what you have on those tapes is evidence of either the survival of spirit after death or maybe of evil personified in some sort of spirit.
		You know, I don't know how to put it, but in other words, you have very, very, very important evidence in the eyewitness testimony of your friend.
unidentified		I'm sure one thing, if you wondered whether the Bible was right or not, when something like that comes to messing with you, he won't have any trouble believing what the Bible tells you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, my friend, listen.
		I'll tell you what.
		I'm going to give your number to somebody who can perhaps help you with your permission.
		I'll do that, all right?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you see about getting, don't ever send me the original, but send me a copy of those videotapes, all right?
unidentified		Okay, you have to pay attention to particular things on to get to know what it is and when it's coming up and stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fine.
		Your friend said it was mostly boring until it happened.
		So, yeah, you kind of outline for me where on the videotape to look for it, all right?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Lawrence, we'll be in touch, and we're going to have someone call you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks.
unidentified		Okay, then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good night.
unidentified		This is Premier Networks.
		That was our bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		on this Somewhere in Time.
		Take my breath away.
		Take my breath away.
		Watch it, I can't wait.
		I can't wait.
		If you could read my mind, love what a tale my thoughts could tell.
		Just like an old-time movie, about a ghost from a wishing well.
		In a castle garden or a fortress strong, with chains upon my feet, you know that a ghost is me.
		And I will never be set free.
		As long as I'm a ghost, you can see.
		If I could read your mind, love, what a tale your thoughts could tell.
		Just like a paper back in the hole, the kind that drugstores sell.
		When you reach the part where the heartaches come, the hero would be me.
		The hero Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues courtesy of Premier Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you've been with us over the last hour and a half, you've heard a hell of a story of a haunting in West Virginia.
		You know, normally I'm so interested in this sort of thing that I would have offered to get on an airplane and go experience it.
		But what's going on there sounds so awful that I wouldn't do that.
		Despite curiosity, I'm not that curious.
		And what this man is going through, this hell, this man is going through, I just, I don't know what to say, but maybe one of my guests coming up a little late does, and late gracefully, because I wanted to get Lawrence's entire story out.
		And so Dr. Katya Romanov, we'll call her Dr. Katya, holds a Ph.D. in parapsychology, metaphysics, and world religion.
		So she, along with Laurie, would normally be here talking about dreams, and yes, we'll get to that.
		But since she's got a PhD in parapsychology, why, obviously, she no doubt is going to have something to say about what you just heard over the last hour and a half, appropriately so.
		So I think that's the way we'll open up with the ladies in a moment.
unidentified		That's coming up next.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		We're going to move forward now.
		That was some one hell of an hour and a half, I would say.
		I'm talking to a number of people about this man's situation, and I'm going to have somebody call him.
		Specifically, who may be able to help out, Evelyn Paglini, and she's in touch with us, and maybe by now with him as well.
		But that's some story.
		I don't know that I would stay there.
		That I could have stayed there.
		On the other hand, I don't know what you do.
		You build your own house.
		You have a lot of land there.
		You inherited the land.
		And you don't want to leave.
		Anyway, fortunately, we've got coming up Dr. Katya and Lori, who ostensibly were here originally to talk about dreams, and we'll get to that because there's some pretty weird stuff going on now in my life that I want to ask about.
		Actually, that's why I called them, and we set the show up.
		But they heard at least the last 30 minutes of the last hour and a half.
		And Dr. Kacha, welcome to the program.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		That was scary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lori, are you there?
unidentified		I'm here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're there, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Obviously, I want to get both of your impressions, but Dr. Kacha, because you specialize in areas like this, just give me your impressions of what you heard and what you think and what this man might do.
unidentified		I've dealt with possessions a few in my time and exorcisms, only a few, but enough to be somewhat comfortable with the concept.
		But that scared me.
		I mean, I had goosebumps that was frightening he was obviously under acute psychological distress from this and of course a depth psychologist would say it's his subconscious he's projecting blah blah blah but as a parapsychologist I do believe that these entities exist my advice to him listen I asked him about that but you've got to bear in mind in the first hour that which you didn't hear was a friend of his that lives a few miles away they've known
art bell ▲ ● ▼		other since uh...
		you know early school days uh...
		his friend sent me the email i brought his friend on the air his friend saw this stuff it even happened to his friend he's got a witness like he said it should be documented but he's got video tape too uh...
		so uh...
		he it sounds not so simple originally i thought just because he signed a contract to have the timber on the uh...
		native american land
		cut that was a problem and he said the problem started when he signed the contract right i heard that it's a lot worse than that apparently because it's burial ground and he said kids dug up native american bodies so arm all men how do you get out of this one yeah hit him my advice to him and i i get this from my my half brother was listening to the program with me got native american blood in him he said
unidentified		he needs to get a shaman a native american medicine man to make peace entities to offer a bridge the the red man doesn't trust the white man for obvious reasons and a shaman could provide a bridge he's trying to deal with it in the only frame he has which is christianity uh...
unidentified		and that's a very valid frame of reference it's not enough he needs to to deal with them on their own terms and make peace uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		when something as serious as uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		grave robbing occurs yeah that's just uh...
unidentified		sacrilege it's iconoclasm it's it's a desecration you know that's holy ground and it's been disturbed so these entities are all stirred up there have been studies we would call this perhaps morphogenetic mind forms um...
unidentified		there is no way the laws of thermonuclear dynamics there's there's no way to get rid of something so for those who are out there who are skeptics and don't believe in ghosts and spirits just think there's nowhere to go for our thought processes for our personalities for our minds so they can center and cluster around a sacred site like this especially one that has the negative connotation of being disturbed uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		i'm curious uh...
		either one of you why you think uh...
		dead spirit i had some guests on last night who wouldn't agree there's any such thing as a dead spirit i don't know i think it did you realize that show yet i don't know i don't know okay all right word dead spirit are are almost an oxymoron be kept spirit it immortal to my guess last night these things would have been uh...
		demons uh...
		he would say they're demons what do you really think they are demons actually the spirits of the the uh...
unidentified		native americans that were buried there what you know what is what is this man encountering native americans who have passed on have been disturbed and have unfinished business and so they have not been stirred up into the ether the gene pool mixed in and reborn they are still a cluster of their original life form their thoughts their their whole whole spirit that that's
unidentified		almost as though it we were still living in the flesh but it isn't it's not a demon demons and angels are terms that we have fine uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		through the centuries as we grapple with these unseen entities these clusters of living people that are still left behind even though they die they have unfinished business all right they're not going to fade away this man said compasses would follow them around the room the dog would chase them the room would get cold uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		these things would lift his bed off the uh...
unidentified		uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		off the floor bouncing it back and forth grab him gouge his eyes right see these are all like electromagnetic disturbances they can be measured um...
unidentified		just like the radio waves are invisible but they're in your room right now helping you listen to the program obviously he he the main visible thing are out there very frightening you think one of those good campfire stories to here you we know what this whole situation reminds me of the winchester house uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		my wife mentioned that you want to explain to people about winchester now winchester uh...
		is a man uh...
		was a man uh...
		who manufactured firearms uh...
		hence the name winchester rifle right what what's the deal behind that i will after he died um...
unidentified		his wife with and i found correct he was being tormented and visited a and medium who told her it was the uh...
		here at the bottom of people who had been killed by the rifle perhaps been manufactured a lot of the native americans know that i don't know you know why when i was when was uh...
		what year was this uh that mrs winchester began to experience this do you know offhand roughly i'm thinking after the civil war after the civil war i could be wrong but i think it was around that time and uh so to keep these spirits at bay she began building this house with the money that was made From the Winchester Rifle Company.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And she just continued to build and build and build this house with stairs that led nowhere, doorways that would open into nothing for the rest of her life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was the idea?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why doorways and to nowhere, halls to nowhere?
unidentified		Confused the spirits.
		She was going to that house.
		And she was hoping this would confuse the spirits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is a true story.
		My wife told me this story during the last break, and I thought, boy, does this apply?
		And you just brought it up, and this went on until.
unidentified		Until she died.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Until she died.
unidentified		You can go visit the house today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It still exists.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where is it?
unidentified		Who lives in San Francisco?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		San Francisco.
		well Then I mean, what do you say to this man?
		If she experienced this until the day she died, this is a 49-year-old man that we just talked to, you know, a disabled man who owns a lot of property, built his own house.
		He actually built a house with his own hands.
		His mother's been run out.
		His fiancé has been run out.
		His life has been ruined.
unidentified		And he won't leave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then what?
unidentified		There's only two options.
		He's got to make peace with it or go.
		If he continues this conflict, he's not going to get anywhere.
		That's the problem.
		Our two cultures, the white man, the Native American, has been in conflict for, what, 300 years now, and it's still not going away.
		So if he can somehow show them that he's a white man to be trusted, they could rest in peace.
		So see, they're not resting.
		They're not resting at all.
		They're making his life miserable.
		They're very active.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		How sure are you about this, Doctor?
		Again, the men I had last night would say this is absolute bunk.
		There's no such thing because when we die, it's death.
		Good night, maybe.
		Maybe there is another side.
		Certainly they believe with the Lord in heaven, I guess, but you're dead, you're dead.
		That's their very fundamentalist view.
		And they expressed it, they were very articulate, but they strongly hold that view, and you strongly, obviously, disagree.
unidentified		Now, there's just too much evidence of an unseen world, another realm overlapping our own, of which we move within, that disproves, I think, this narrow view that all we are is what we see.
		Science has proven that there is so much more that we don't see.
		Why put blinders on and ignore that when dealing with it and grappling with it will bring you peace?
		The goal is, and the goal of any religion should be, to end human suffering.
		So you look and see how it works.
		Even Jesus of Galilee said, you'll know them by their fruits if it works.
		So if it brings peace, an exorcism or dealing with these, making peace, if it ends human suffering, that's your result.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You may not have heard this, but he brought somebody, I guess, at the advice of the church or from the church who exercised one spirit, and then he got two spirits.
unidentified		Right.
		The exorcism must not have been as effective as it needed to be.
		Again, I really think he needs the assistance, perhaps a Christian exorcist working with a Native American shaman.
		They need to bring together those two cultures as a communication bridge to those very unrestful spirits.
		I live on timbered land.
		I live on 20 acres of timbered land.
		He needs to replant.
		It's not that difficult to replant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you heard him say he took a truck in there, really cleaned the whole mess up that he admitted it was a big mess, cleaned it up, and put a memorial up there saying it was a burial ground, the whole thing.
unidentified		That must not have been enough to appease them, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, obviously not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think replanting?
unidentified		Definitely.
		Bringing it back.
		The problem is all things change, and unfortunately, whole cultures get lost during these changes, like Tibet.
		Tibet's just about gone, and the Native American culture is gone.
		Despite the pockets on reservations, all we have is their wisdom recorded.
		So there's no way to return entirely to the way things were, but he can attempt a sort of a peace offering.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is a ghost like that a full consciousness, do you believe?
		I'm asking you about the nature of ghosts now.
		In other words, are these really spirits that are physically dead but fully conscious?
		I mean to be slapping and gouging eyes and doing things so specific, raising beds, all the things we see in the movies, throwing stuff around the room, furniture moving, there was a lot you didn't hear, all of that kind of stuff.
		Does that mean this is really that being but from the other side, fully conscious as we understand it?
unidentified		Well, consciousness, oh, what a realm that is.
		We have our unconscious, our subconscious.
		Consciousness is something that we center around our minds, our brains, and our skull.
		So these are entities with no brain, but yet they are a form of consciousness that existed at one time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but he was asking this entity questions, and it was answering by slapping him.
unidentified		Right, right.
		I think the angrier they are and the more unfinished business that the spirit has, the more conscious it's going to be.
		And I know there are many that disagree and don't even believe in ghosts.
		They think that it's a psychological projection coming from the man's subconscious mind.
		And that's a very provocative theory.
		I have struggled with that one for years, that ghosts are all in the mind.
		Having never seen a ghost, it makes us all doubters and skeptics.
		But, hey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If he's got photographs videotape even better, and he does, of the bed coming up off the floor, he said that he's got on the videotape you can see a kind of a fuzz spot as the entity moves about the room with a compass following it.
		He's got all of this on tape.
		This is real serious proof.
unidentified		Well, yeah, but you know, the naysayers would say, hey, that could be trick photography.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think so.
unidentified		You know what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I listened to this guy.
unidentified		He sounded so sincere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm almost personally ruling that out.
unidentified		But you know what the skeptics will say are they'll look at that video, they'll go over it with a fine-tooth comb, but in a way that's good.
		You're a healthy skeptic yourself.
		And that's that your skepticism helps you keep in touch, keep a little down to earth.
		You filter things that come your way.
		You filter stories.
		You put it you put it through your I've I've listened to you many times and that's good.
		But you you don't go as far as being a naysayer.
		You are uncomfortable with these possibilities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Um well, look when these things have happened to you your life changes.
		I mean when when you see certain things and certain things occur to you, which they have to me in my life, if you ignore them, you're an idiot.
unidentified		Right, they'll keep coming until they get your attention fully.
		Right, and I'm not with ghosts.
		Are you telling us that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I, well, I have one situation, and it's interesting you should mention it.
		I interviewed this woman.
		I don't know if we talked about this on the program.
		I interviewed a witch.
		No, she wasn't a witch.
		That's not fair.
		The witches will get angry at me.
		She was a Satanist.
unidentified		Oh, my.
		There's a big difference.
		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's why I quickly corrected myself.
unidentified		She was a true Satanist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're going to be replaying that show this Saturday, this interview with the Satanist.
		Listen, we're at the top of the hour.
		Can you ladies hold on?
unidentified		Of course.
unidentified		We'll be here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good, hold on.
		Stay right there, and we will be right back.
		And I'll recount that very briefly.
		Well, you just never know what you're going to run into on any given night.
unidentified		The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		More Somewhere in Time coming up.
		Don't you give up, baby.
		Don't you cry.
		Don't you give up tonight.
		Reach me up to the side.
		I was lonely, baby.
		I couldn't sleep.
		The night that you...
		Nothing but a heart is never ending.
		I hope it's in all the way.
		What you're saying, yeah He's like me, oh why Can I get him?
		Nothing but a heartache Never redeem it I've got a chance All the way To wish you that I just can't win, yeah He's like me, oh why Can I get him?
		I've got a lot of those heartaches I've got a lot of those teardrums Heartaches, teardrums All the way Nothing but a heartache Never redeem it Nothing but a heartache
		Everything, yeah I've got a heartache Teardrum all the way I've got a lot of those heartaches Coming just to slam, yeah He's got me, oh why Can I get him?
		I've got a lot of those heartaches I've got a lot of those You are listening to Art Bell, somewhere in Time, tonight featuring coast to coast AM from the 17th of February, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		Well, this song goes well for my friend of the last hour and a half, prior to this last segment.
		Every day, I guess, a heartache, huh?
		Anyway, coming up, we will continue with my current guest, Dr. Katya Romanov.
		Now, she doesn't use her last name, so we're going to just call her Dr. Katya and Lori.
		Both who normally come here and talk to us about dreams, and we are going to get to that because I've got a situation going on in my life with dreams, but it surely is trivial compared to what that poor man in West Virginia is going through right now.
unidentified		The End You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from the 17th of February, 2000.
		Music.
		Music.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, back now to my guests, Dr. Katya and Lori.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gals, welcome back to the program.
unidentified		Well, thank you for having us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any final thoughts on our friend in West Virginia and then who reluctantly I will turn my attention elsewhere?
unidentified		Well, I would just love to know, you know, if these beings communicate with him in his dreams.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, in his dreams.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't even ask that.
		He is unable to sleep during nighttime hours at all.
		I mean, this has been going on for three hours.
		So this guy sits up at night with lights, and sometimes he said a mask and strobe lights so that he can sleep.
		But when he does sleep, I guess mainly during the day, I don't know if it affects his dreams or not.
		But the main reason I since I had interviewed the two of you before, and we had a really good interview on the air about dreams, as you know, something began to happen to me, and so I picked up the phone and I called you, and I began to tell you about what I'm going to describe tonight.
		In the information you sent to me, Lori, you list five possibilities of dreams.
		Paranormal dreams, it says here, correspondence between physical conditions such as illness or pregnancy, whatever, and dream content.
		Two, contact dreams, dreams in which the dead communicate with us.
		Three, paranormal dreams, precognitive, telepathic, clairvoyant.
		Four, lucid dreams, being aware that you're dreaming while in a dream.
		Our key to understanding the full range of consciousness, you say.
		And then five, past life dreams.
		Do our dreams show us our past lives?
		All fertile territory, no doubt, to talk about here on the air.
		But here it comes.
		The reason I called in the first place was because about a month ago, I think it's about a month ago, you know, times, it gets hard.
		I should have kept a better record.
		I began to have dreams.
		I had dreams all my life.
		I know what dreams are, and sometimes they seem really very real, but they always have involved me somewhere in the dream.
		I was in the dream.
		However, I began to have this series of dreams, gals, in which it's like, here's the way I can only describe it with these words.
		It's like I was dropped right into the life of another person.
		And I wasn't me.
		I wasn't observing this like a third person or like you'd read a third person description in a book or something like that.
		Gals, that was me.
		I became a different person.
		Now, in these dreams, I know the places.
		I could go to the places.
		I know the people's names.
		I know my name.
		I know where I went to high school.
		I know what I did.
		I know where my locker was.
		It's a state that other than a short stint in the Air Force, I never have set foot in.
		One dream, for example, in Mississippi, where I grew up.
		I mean, it's like I'm being dumped into somebody else's reality.
		And it completely is freaking me out.
		And it's not like any dream I've had in my life.
		Maybe it's a usual thing for other people, but, oh man, not for me.
unidentified		Is it always the same?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		You're always the same character?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		No.
unidentified		Okay, good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		I could tell you the, I mean, I could go on with all details.
		I could give you as many details of these dreams, and I just gave you one example, as I can give you of my own real life.
unidentified		Very vivid, then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Scaring me, kind of.
unidentified		So you're going to different regions of the United States, or do you sometimes go to other countries?
unidentified		And what about the dreams?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's always been, all good questions.
		It's always been in this country so far, and it's always been, you know, actually not always.
		One time, I had a dream prior to the second, or at the beginning of the Second World War.
		Now, bear in mind, I was not born until 1945.
		All right?
		I'm 54 years old, June 17th of this year.
		I'll be 55.
		So I had one dream that occurred prior to my own birth.
unidentified		Okay.
		And any others?
		All the rest are contemporary?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, none contemporary.
unidentified		Oh, they're all in the past?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All in the past.
unidentified		Did you mention high schools and lockers, but of course, high schools and lockers existed at the turn of the century, so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		absolutely but Without going into the details, and I obviously don't want to read on the air.
		There are enough details that I have considered, I don't know, I've tossed around two ideas.
		One, actually finding the people, because I know they're there, I know the town they're in, and talking to the people, or even getting on an airplane and going to a couple of these places.
		Now, I'm really hesitant to do this, but I'm almost driven to do this.
		So that's why I called you now in the dreams that you've lined up here to talk about just exactly where, pray tell, does what's happening to me fit in?
		Any thoughts?
unidentified		Well, it's a classic case of tapping into the collective unconscious.
		If your dreams were all in contemporary settings, which they're not, they would still be valid experiences where you're touching the minds or the life experiences of other beings, other human beings.
		But since some of them are historical in a historical context, they could be genetic memory triggering something one of your grandparents, great-grandparents Went through.
		Reincarnation, of course, past lives is a whole kettle of worms.
		I've been grappling with reincarnation for years, and I'm not sure I believe in it, but I do believe in genetic memory.
		In other words, anything that your ancestors did, felt, experienced, you can access through your DNA.
		Every cell in your body has that same DNA code.
		The same DNA code is in your hair that's in the cells that make up your heart muscle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but what, just out of curiosity, do you imagine might cause a man my age who's dreamt just like everybody dreams, I think, which is a foolish statement because I don't know how everybody dreams.
		But, you know, I've had your run-of-the-mill, anything from terror to romance to funny stuff to sad stuff to scary stuff, but always just dreams.
		I know that if I make the trip, I'm going to find what I lived.
		And when I tell you I lived it, I mean I lived it.
		I'm going to find that.
		It's there.
		And I don't know if I want to know.
unidentified		Well, we want to know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, really?
unidentified		You need to go.
		You definitely.
		What a case that would be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess the question really is, what would make somebody who's dreamt normally, in quotes, all their life, suddenly begin to dream in this utterly, completely different mode?
unidentified		Your mind is suddenly opened to it.
unidentified		You've reached a threshold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great.
unidentified		You're at a new phase in your life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, great.
unidentified		As the fortune teller told you, you're entering this new phase, and the barriers are coming down in your mind.
		All the doors come open when we sleep in our mind, and you're able to cross over to the other side.
		You've learned your lessons with regular, typical dreams.
		You've accomplished what needed to be accomplished.
		And now the dream weaver is throwing this at you, saying, hey, how about this?
		It wants to get your attention to alert you to the other side.
		Again, in your profession, you deal with the paranormal every night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not happy about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm serious.
unidentified		I'm not happy.
		Are you happy with dreams?
		You're not happy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not happy.
		I'm not happy.
		No.
unidentified		Are they literal?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whereas they're literal down to furnishings in the house.
		My mom, my dad, my relatives, my brothers.
		And I don't have brothers, by the way, in real life.
		I have sisters.
		I mean, I could go on and on and on and on.
		So literal that it's got me sitting here jabbering about it to you.
		That literal.
		And so I've opened up to it, huh?
		Well, I don't know if that's a good thing.
		I don't know that I like dropping into somebody else's life like that.
		I felt all their, you know, some of their happiness and a lot of their pain.
unidentified		Sure, yeah.
		You were touching all the emotional highs and lows.
		Yep, yep, yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And put bluntly, it wasn't that cool.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It wasn't that much fun.
unidentified		Do you ever know their name or your name?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		You need to go to those towns and check it out.
unidentified		I have a list here you might be interested in of the criteria that a past life memory dream will have to fit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		I'll ask you the questions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fire away.
unidentified		Okay, we already answered one, that the dreams are literal rather than symbolic.
unidentified		Now, are these dream remembrances accompanied by sensations completely unlike those you've experienced from other dreams?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These sensations...
unidentified		Completely unlike your other dreaming method.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
unidentified		You pretty much told us yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the answer to that is absolutely yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, I've dreamt all my 54 years to this point, and always afterwards I know that I just had a dream.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I sit and analyze it.
		It was kind of interesting.
		And, you know, I mentally remember some of them, even relate some of them to my wife, that kind of thing.
		When you have an exceptional dream, but always I was very aware this was a dream, and I'm totally aware what I've been having is more than a dream, if that answers your question.
unidentified		It does.
		Yeah, I'd say.
		Are you aware while in the dream that this is a past life you are experiencing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		It's just, no, I'm not aware of that.
		No.
		Not at all.
unidentified		You're really living it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm living the life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's like I'm dropped.
unidentified		Like you're thrown back into it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like, boom.
		You're not thrown into it.
		I mean, really into it.
		Just completely immersed suddenly.
		You're living a different life.
		Period.
		No reference to the current life at all.
		None.
unidentified		Right.
		You're still within the criteria.
		What's the next one, Laurie?
		Now, you've had these recently, so this one might not fit you just yet, but is the dream so vivid that you can describe the slightest detail even years later?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		The reason for that is because it was so shocking to me that, of course, when I awakened, I spoke to my wife about it and I relayed a lot of the detail to her.
		And in doing that, it caused me to remember it in great detail, I think.
		That'd be a way to put it.
unidentified		Right.
		It's always good to discuss a dream with someone.
		If you're not keeping a dream journal, it's good to discuss even non-paranormal dreams.
		Your normal run-of-the-mill dreams aren't run-of-the-mill.
		Every dream has a message.
		But in your case, you're dealing with past lives here, the whole reincarnation issue.
		Have you, whatever your spiritual tradition is, have you believed in reincarnation?
		Are you a disbeliever?
		So now perhaps these dreams are coming to you to say, hey, this is true.
		I mean, how personally, I told you personally, I really struggle with reincarnation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're asking me a really, really hard question.
		I lean, to answer it as best I can, I lean toward the concept of reincarnation.
		It seems logical to me that a person would, I'll come back, to put it simply, again and again, until they get it right.
		You know, the old school house earth thing.
		All of that seems like it's more logical than not to me, but I don't have conclusive enough evidence to say Art Bell believes in reincarnation.
		I think it's logical.
unidentified		It is.
unidentified		It's very, very logical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I've heard compelling evidence from people, you know, guests, that it's very compelling evidence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I lean toward believing it may well be.
unidentified		But it's still a struggle for you.
		Yep.
		Well, I think it's obvious why the dreams are coming to you.
		You need to deal with this and decide your opinion one way or the other.
		Perhaps I have two more questions.
		Oh, there's two more.
		Let's go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All you want.
unidentified		Okay.
		has your attitude toward death and dying changed since having these dreams?
		Hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Um, give me a minute to think about that.
		We're at a breakpoint here.
		Let me think about that for.
		I think the answer is no, but I want to think it over.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
		Good morning.
unidentified		You are listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from the 17th of February, 2000.
		I can do all my mind.
		I woke up this morning, baby.
		You know that I felt so fine.
		You know I need you.
		You know that I love you.
		This is my bedroom.
		I get love, my pleasure love, darling, darling, darling, to you, yeah, to you, yeah.
		I woke up this morning, baby, I had you on my mind.
		I felt so much love this morning, little girl, little girl, you feel so fine.
		You know I need you, you know that I love you, darling.
		The End Dream, dream, dream, dream, dream.
		Dream, dream, dream when I want you.
		In my heart when I want you.
		And on your charts whenever I want you.
		All I have to do is dream.
		Dream, dream, dream when I'm you.
		In the night I need you to hold me tight whenever I want you.
		All I have to do is dream.
		I can make you mad.
		It's true.
		It's so fun.
		Every time that I play, only trouble is cheap.
		I'm dreaming my life.
		I need you so that I could die.
		I love you so.
		And that is why.
		Now we take you back to the past on Art Bell somewhere in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Obviously, I'm going to get away with using all my dream bumper music here.
		My guests are Dr. Kacha and Laurie.
		I'm Art Bell.
		And we are talking about dreams.
		I think they're dreams.
		Anyway, I think I've got a good answer, and it's coming out.
unidentified		I think I've got a good answer.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from the 17th of February, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music Music Music Once again, Dr. Katya and Laurie are on the air, and hi there, ladies.
		All right, here's my answer to your question.
		Again, I'm going to refer, believe it or not, back to last night to the fundamentalists that I had on, because there were certain things that I really agreed with them about.
		You no doubt recently have heard, you asked me if my attitude on death and dying has changed, and the answer I think is no.
		But here is what my attitude, I think, is.
		Charles Schultz just died.
		The man who did peanuts.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Now, he did thousands and thousands of that series of peanuts.
		It was all his adult life.
		And he died on the eve of his last one.
		He had announced his retirement, and he died on the eve of his last one.
		And the gentleman I spoke with last night thought that he regarded his mission as done, or his mission on earth was done.
		And so it appropriately occurred to him.
		Or, you know, you can imagine a million different things.
		He brought it on himself mentally.
		It really was cosmically his time.
		God took him back at that moment.
		Think of it the way you will.
		I don't believe in that many coincidences, although, you know, maybe sure it could have been a coincidence, but not very likely One, in my opinion.
		So, my attitude is that you're taken when you're done with what you're supposed to do.
		That's my attitude on Death and Dying: that you're kind of taken when you're done with what you're supposed to do.
		And who knows when that is, as I said to my wife during the break, until the symbol of the mighty Dodge is bearing down on you, or however it is, you're going to go.
		And you might not even have any warning.
		So, I think we have some sort of mission to accomplish in this life, and then when you're done, you're done.
unidentified		But are you recycled when you're finished?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Beats the hell out of me.
		I'm giving you an honest answer.
		I can't honestly say that I believe in reincarnation.
		I can't say that.
unidentified		And your fundamentalist friends last night, they, as Christians, would disbelieve reincarnation, even though for the first four centuries of Christianity, reincarnation was standard belief.
		It was in the books.
		Reincarnation was belief by Christianity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They wouldn't want to hear that.
unidentified		No, they wouldn't want to hear that.
		Emperor Constantine got rid of reincarnation at the urging of his third wife, who couldn't handle, she was a very vicious, nasty woman, and she couldn't handle the thought that she might have to come back as a lower life form because she was so mean and cruel.
		So she talked him into removing reincarnation from the doctrines.
		And of course, you remember Emperor Constantinus, the man who put Christianity on the map.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How comfortable could she have been doing that, personally?
		In other words, certainly she might fool some other people downline, but she had to know herself that she was just using her wiles to get this done.
		It ain't the truth.
unidentified		Right.
		Perhaps she felt she had an ego complex that she felt she really was forming this rising star religion.
		And she thought, well, maybe, maybe if I help form these doctrines, that's how it's really going to be in her fear of as it is written, so it shall be done.
		Yeah, not as complex.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see, I see.
		Yeah, that could be.
		So what you're really, but the all-important point is you're saying reincarnation was once viewed as real as any part of the Bible.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
		All great religions, the major religions on the planet believe in reincarnation or transmigration of souls.
		Transmigration.
		The Hasidic Jews, the Kabbalah and Jewish mysticism teaches reincarnation, as well as early Christianity.
		And of course, Hinduism and Buddhism.
		Very strong tenets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		It's good old reincarnation, but it's so hard to believe.
unidentified		But perhaps that's because we're wearing these veils of ignorance to keep us sane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not hard for me to believe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's hard for me to embrace as absolute fact.
unidentified		Right, right.
unidentified		I see what you're saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can't come and tell you, boy, I know it's true.
		I'm so comfortable.
		I know I'm coming back or I've been back.
		You can't say that.
unidentified		It's very reassuring to tell those who've lost a loved one, don't worry, don't come back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very reassuring.
		But it's possible.
		See, I go right to the other extreme.
		It's also possible in my mind that when we die, the worms grow in and the worms grow out, and there is nothing but velvet blackness.
unidentified		Right.
		Well, the worms are going to crawl no matter what.
		Yes, your flesh is just your garment.
		Either you're going to be cremated or your worm food, that's just the way it is.
		But your soul, your memories, the energy that is you, is it going to exist?
		I often think that it's going to be stirred into the pool of souls.
		You sort of get stirred in and mixed up.
		So I think your dreams, you're touching on memories of other lives, not necessarily lives that you lived even.
		But yes, it could be.
		It could be reincarnation.
		But it could be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some of these lives that I've been in, or even the majority of them, have been lives that would have been parallel to my own.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, would have been going on when I was alive.
unidentified		Yeah, see, so there you are.
		You are touching, tapping into the pool of souls.
		We can reach out and touch.
		Computers can be connected.
		All the computers in one office building can be connected.
		So why can't all the mindset?
		So you're interfacing here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not so wild about it.
unidentified		It's uncomfortable for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's really weird.
unidentified		Are they still going on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		May I ask you how many instances of what I have just described to you you've heard of before?
		Is it rare or common or what?
unidentified		It's neither rare nor common.
		Somewhere in the middle there, I hear say several cases of this per year.
		But now we've got many listeners, and it will be fun to see how many have experienced this.
		Just two weeks ago, I had a similar report.
		Yeah, and I thought, wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I'm not a dream researcher, but I have never heard of this before.
		You know, until it happened to me, I'd not heard of it or any reports of it, or I'd never had anything about it on my show either.
		With people saying this was happening to them, I've never had that.
unidentified		It may be happening more now.
		As awareness grows, we all get, again, we're all connected.
		Our minds are thinking on the same wavelength.
		The whole cyclical time as we come back around to where we started from.
		Of course, I believe in linear time, too.
		That's another argument.
		And these dreams could be happening more often than we all realize, because how many dreams during the night do you actually remember?
		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Usually, it seems like, well, no, not all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But generally, more times than not, the one you had just before you woke up.
unidentified		Oh, right.
unidentified		Definitely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or at least it sure seems that way.
unidentified		And that's why nightmares in the middle of the night will propel you into the waking state so that you will remember them.
		A nightmare, above all, wants to be remembered because it has the most powerful message for you.
		These are going to be a positive one, so don't be afraid of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me tell you this: these were not, much as I say I'm not real happy about this happening, these weren't nightmares.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were good and they were bad and they were just simply somebody else's life altogether.
		Yeah, they weren't.
		I wouldn't call it a nightmare at all.
unidentified		I wouldn't even call it a dream.
		It's almost as though they were experiences.
		You were using your subconscious to tap into someone else's experiences.
		It didn't seem like a dream or a nightmare.
		It's a whole nother realm in dream science.
		It's paranormal dreaming.
		It's beyond the psychoanalytical view of dreams.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll say this to you.
		You know, I've been doing the show now in this mode, you know, talking about this kind of thing for a lot of years.
		And in the latter years of doing it, I have really begun to experience personally a lot of paranormal things you put in the paranormal basket.
unidentified		Yes, we talked about this the last time we were on.
		And I really believe there's, in your profession, you cannot help but encounter this because you are an example for others and you communicate.
		You're a mouthpiece for the metaphysical realm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I am, a mouthpiece.
unidentified		Nightly contact with the other side with art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you see, not really.
		I mean, well, in other words, I have been, because I examine this, because I have my own real honest curiosity about it.
		I've interviewed countless people, all kinds of areas of the paranormal, everything you can imagine in the paranormal world.
		I've interviewed, I've talked to these people, I've listened to them, I've listened to their stories, and now it's getting me.
		I can only presume that my mind has begun to open to these things, and so they are now coming to me, and it's pretty weird.
unidentified		Yeah, all change is uncomfortable, but it's always a good thing.
		You're moving forward in your evolution, your personal evolution.
		We're all evolving.
		We're moving toward integration.
		That's what dreams help us do.
		Our dreams are the royal road to the subconscious, as Sigmund Freud said, and they are the royal road to enlightenment, as C.G. Jung, Carl Jung, said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Occasionally, they're a lot lighter than that, too, though.
		I mean, you have all kinds of neat dreams.
		You have sex dreams.
		Sex dreams aren't bad.
unidentified		No, of course not.
unidentified		They're fun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rather enjoyable, actually.
unidentified		And remember, they come to balance our sexual energies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're generally big teases, you know.
		Dreams are big teases, but not always.
		Sometimes you justify a cigarette when you wake up, you know.
		So there's a lighter side to dreaming, too, and that really is a lighter side.
		Sometimes, and I was talking to my wife about this earlier tonight.
		She said she's been awakened at times by my laughing.
unidentified		I wake myself up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dead asleep, but she wakes up and I'm laughing.
unidentified		Well.
unidentified		Now, that's not REM sleep, obviously, if you're laughing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it?
unidentified		Coffee and sleep.
unidentified		It could be because he's not using skeletal muscles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Skeletal muscles?
unidentified		Your skeletal muscles are paralyzed when you go into REM sleep.
		Otherwise, you would get up and act it out.
		Right.
		So we go into the Oh, is that so?
		You should get up walking around the room acting out this dream.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so then laughing is a physical activity that falls outside the realm, right?
unidentified		No, I've always seen laughter in dreams in sleep labs.
unidentified		Laughter would occur in one of the other stages of dreaming, not REM sleep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not REM sleep.
unidentified		No, it's just like talking in your sleep.
unidentified		All right, well, there's the other thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's worth remembering that I sleep a totally bizarre schedule.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remember?
		I get off the air, what, 3 o'clock in the morning local time here on the West Coast.
		And I might stay up for a couple hours, generally going to sleep around 5 in the morning, waking up around 9 in the morning, 5 to 9, let's say.
		Then again in the afternoon, about 4 o'clock or sometimes 5.
unidentified		Right.
		You have an entirely bizarre sleeping pattern.
		It's like the sleeping pattern of a soldier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, maybe 7.30 in the evening from 5 to 7.30 or 8 o'clock even if I'm lucky.
		And so that's my sleep schedule for the day.
		And so then I must pass through these various stages of sleep a whole bunch of times.
unidentified		Yes, yes.
		That's going to bring you more psychic dreams, too.
		Nap time, when a person takes a nap in the afternoon, even if it's only for 30 minutes, some of the most psychic dreams, and when I say psychic, I mean of the soul.
		I don't mean the connotation that the word psychic has come to mean.
		I mean psychological, the most powerfully potent dreams will come during nap time.
		So you're kind of getting that.
		You're getting these naps.
		You're not deep, getting into the deep layers of sleep where there's total dreamlessness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That emergent velvet little slice of death, they put it.
unidentified		Right, I love that term.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, I do too.
		And that's the sleep I would like to have.
		Dreamless Sleep.
		There have been times, I think I said this to you before, when I've had dreams where I was so active that when I did wake up, I felt like I'd been working because I was dreaming of such a dream that instead of waking up rested, I go, God, glad that's over.
		Now I'm awake.
unidentified		Yes, that's very common for people who have broken sleep patterns.
		You feel worse than when you went, you know, you just should have stayed awake because so much is going on during your sleeping time.
		And it needs to.
		That's what recharges your batteries.
		And I don't mean your physical batteries.
		Obviously, sleep does that.
		But your brain needs to recycle.
		Your mind.
		Your consciousness needs to go through that REM sleep.
		And it does need those nice dreamless sleep phases also.
		And usually laughter and sleep talking, talking in the sleep state, usually those are just as we're emerging.
		The sleep state that's most akin to meditative states.
		You know, the gurus of India, though they meditate and they have visions, well, they've measured their brain waves when they do this and other mystics of other traditions.
		And it's the same.
		It's the same.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I wanted to mention the happy part of it to you, and this is not necessarily unhappy, but she also tells me that I moan and that sometimes I cry.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that she has, on a couple of occasions, awakened me from that condition.
		And obviously didn't mention to me at the time that she woke me up because I was bawling or whatever.
		Crying, let's specify.
unidentified		How do you feel when she awakens you?
		Do you remember?
		Do you feel any of the emotion?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, my wife is usually up before I am, so I'm used to my wife awakening me.
unidentified		So.
		That would be interesting to see what you're feeling, what residue is coming into your waking.
		Because you're not supposed to interrupt a dreamer.
		Of course, we do it in sleep labs all the time.
		Because we want to know what they're dreaming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not certain that the laughter or the moaning or the crying or whatever emotion comes out is because a dream is going on.
		I don't know that to be true.
		I just know it's happening.
unidentified		Right.
		You are having a dream and you're responding to it with your full range of emotions.
		That's very healthy.
		It would be nice if you could remember the dream and deal with it, but it's okay if you don't.
		Because you'll get the same message in another form.
		That's the beauty of dreams.
		You don't get it the first time.
		It'll come again and again, just like recurring nightmares and recurring dreams.
		That means we haven't gotten the message.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
		All right.
		Well, anyway, the heck with me.
		That's enough.
		I wanted to get that out because I guess I wanted to see if other people were experiencing it.
		I wanted to run it by the two of you.
		What I want to do next is allow the audience to get in here and say what they want to say.
		So that's what we'll do as he grabs some more dream bumper music.
		Irresistible.
unidentified		The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		more somewhere in time coming up.
		I know the magic of her charms, cause I want a girl to call my own, I wanna believe.
		Dream lover so I don't have to dream alone Dream lover, where are you with a love for the blue top walls Never market the stars But the hidden that she leads you to These days and feel my life Just like a web for
		running through the year of the camp.
		The End
		Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues, courtesy of Premier Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're headed toward open lines in a moment, and I've got some pretty interesting stuff for you.
unidentified		Well, you know, to me, that sax has always been like a...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		bit of soul so I always let it go anyway I do have some interesting items for you and then open lines directly ahead stay right there All right,
		I've got a number of comments and then we're going to open the lines here and here they come number one I have not for a long time paid attention to the political world and I still don't very much for a lot of reasons I used to be a registered at one time I was a registered Republican and I had to fed up with him, and so I became something else.
		I became libertarian, and that's to me the sign of a free thinker.
		And so it doesn't mean some people seem to think it means that I would go out and always vote for the libertarian candidate.
		Well, that's bunk.
		And if that's what the libertarians think, then they enlisted the wrong guy or the wrong guy enlisted, depending on how you want to look at it.
		My vote will go for the person that I think I have a chance of believing.
		And that could be anybody, any party.
		And as I look at the landscape right now, I like Senator McCain.
		George Bush, W, gives me the creepies.
		When I look at him, I get the creeps.
		I really like McCain.
		McCain's like a real guy to me, I guess.
		He was a POW, as most of you know.
		And I don't know, when I listen to him, I just, it sounds like the real thing to me.
		And when I listen to George W., it sounds like his dad to me.
		And sketchy as that is, those are my feelings about the political situation going on right now.
		Of course, McCain had a surprise and very big victory in New Hampshire, and now they're really scrapping down in South Carolina.
		So that's going to be the news through the weekend primary coming on Saturday.
		And it's going to be big news.
		It'd be interesting to see what occurs.
		I just wanted to say to those who know that I'm libertarian, if you think that means that I automatically vote that way, you're crazy.
		And I don't think that's really true of any party affiliation.
		At least not for me.
		For some people, I guess when they join a party, they automatically pull the ballot for the person in that party.
		That's not me.
		Never has been, never will be.
unidentified		Now, check this out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Associated Press.
		Tonight.
		Flaw found in Mars Lander's Design.
		Pasadena.
		A flaw in the design of NASA's Mars polar lander could have caused its engines to cut off prematurely while the $165 million spacecraft was descending to the surface, said the engineers on Thursday.
		The glitch is the latest of several possibilities under investigation into why the spacecraft has not made contact since December 3rd.
		It was supposed to have gently landed, you'll recall, to begin a 90-day mission to study Mars climate history.
		Other scenarios include the possibility that the spacecraft landed on some steep side of a canyon and toppled over or the radios broke down.
		You know, they don't know.
		But the late news is that the signals they thought they were getting from the lander have now been apparently ruled out by NASA as lander signals.
		And it was kind of interesting because you may recall Ed Dame said the lander burned up in the atmosphere.
		And even on the day that the story came in where they thought they had signals from the lander, Ed Dame said, no, no.
		Remember what I said?
		It burned up in the atmosphere.
		Well, guess what?
		Now it looks like that's an equal possibility at the very least that it may have fallen into a canyon and can't get up, although that would not account for the lack of course of the UHF signals.
		So the highest likelihood, it seems to me now, is that it did, in fact, burn up in the atmosphere.
		Now, the following is from, is just hours old.
		You may have heard the reference Dr. Kotja and Alori made to our sun.
		The following is from Space Science News, February 18th.
		So you can check it out yourself.
		Subject, a coronal mass ejection heads for Earth.
		Space Science News for February 18th, 2000.
		Here comes the sun.
		A full halo, that's in quotes, full halo coronal mass ejection left the sun yesterday, apparently headed directly for Earth.
		When the leading edge of the disturbance reaches our planet February 19th or 20th, it may trigger aurora and other geomagnetic activity.
		And then they go on to point to the full story.
		We'll try and get this up for you on the website.
		I'll pass this link on to Keith here shortly, and we'll get it up on the website.
		But if true, that certainly is very interesting.
		So is this.
		And I talked to Richard Hoagland about this earlier in the day.
		Reuters News.
		Sinking water levels have apparently revealed a granite sarcophagus of the ancient Egyptian god Osiris in a 30-meter deep tomb at the Giza Pyramids.
		That, folks, is a quote from Zahiyahuas himself.
		Osiris, of course, one of the most important gods of ancient Egypt, who, according to mythology, was murdered by his wicked brother, Seth.
		He was buried by Isis, his sister, wife, and brought back to life as judge of the dead and ruler of the underworld.
		Dr. Hawa said the sarcophagus, which he dated 500 BC in the New Kingdom, was surrounded by the remains of four pillars built in the shape of a hieroglyph called the House of Osiris.
		The excavation unearthed 3,000-year-old bones and pottery found in the underground water, he said.
		He said, quote, I never excavated this shaft because it was always full of water.
		But when the water went down about a year ago, we began the adventure, he told Reuters.
		After dirt and most of the remaining water was cleared from the shaft, located between the Sphinx and the pyramid, archaeologists found three underground levels with the submerged Osiris sarcophagus at the lowest.
		Many people believed there were tunnels going to the Sphinx and another leading to the Great Pyramid.
		But only when we sent, get this folks, a young boy into a tunnel in the west wall of the tomb shaft did we find this exciting discovery according to dr. Zahi Hawas.
		And then here's one more item that I really had to get on the air this morning.
		This is dated February 16th, Auckland, New Zealand, and you can find it if you want on Yahoo News.
		The headline is, Global sea level rise to flood parts of Tuvalu this weekend.
		That's Tuvalu, T-U-V-A-L-U.
		Check this out.
		Global warming and the associated sea level rise will threaten residents of Tuvalu this weekend with tides, these are tides now, folks, forecast to be higher than most of the islands they live on, according to a climate expert Wednesday.
		Homes, offices, the airport there, all expected to be flooded, underwater.
		So what they're saying, scientists are saying spring tides have been getting steadily higher, causing serious problems, but this month they will get the highest ever.
		The island home to about 11,000.
		The groundwater already has become undrinkable thanks to seawater intrusion.
		But according to one resident who says it's very hard to live here right now, shortly it apparently is going to be impossible to live there.
		Now, if global warming had any validity, depending on whether you want to believe in global warming or reject it and just believe in big cycles, when islands begin to disappear under the water, inhabited islands begin to disappear under the water, then you've got to imagine something real is going on.
		It has nothing to do with storms or anything else, simply consistently raising higher and higher tides.
		Now, I will leave it to you, because obviously the scientists have no clue, except they feel global warming.
		That's what they say.
		And I know a lot of you, for political reasons or reasons of whatever belief, reject the whole concept, which is fine.
		But you're going to have to make up a good reason for islands beginning to disappear.
		People who are going to have to begin evacuating islands because they're going to be gone under the water.
		Just something for you to ponder.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
unidentified		Oh, is this Art Bell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, yes.
unidentified		Hi, I have an answer for the guy who has the force on the land of the burial ground.
		Yes, I'm Native American, and I think it has something to do with it is on the burial ground, and he needs to contact a shaman for sure.
		He should get off of it, and there's something to call it like a sage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you would say, you know, he was warned that his life could be in danger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You agree with that?
unidentified		Yes, I think I believe so.
		I really believe so.
		And it's amazing it hasn't happened before, you know.
		I think maybe it has, but no one's ever believed it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it's really easy to advise somebody to get the heck out, and I understand that.
		But when the land is generational, it's been passed on down to you, when you're disabled, when you've built your own house, when you've lived there all your life, then maybe it's not so easy.
		It's easier for us to say than it would be for him to.
unidentified		Also with Indians, I mean, think about what they've been through.
unidentified		They've lived there for generations themselves, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
unidentified		Sage might help?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sage advice or sage self-age as far as the sage flat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sage flat, huh?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Well, that does help.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's consider that pass on then.
		I think sage wisdom is a good idea, too, and the wisdom might be to get the hell out.
		It is really easy advice to dispense, as we dispassionately, to some degree, at least sit here, and we're not in his shoes, in his house, on his land.
		And so it's easy to say, and for him, understandably, I mean, after all, his mother left, his fiancée left, and he's lost a lot of the people, friends that he knew who will not come around anymore.
		So, I don't know.
		People make their choices, I guess, you know.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hey, Art.
		It's Mission Lawyer Jet Kim from Cold Lake, Alberta, Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I'm fine.
		You know, I should give you an update on the astronauts, but maybe I'll do that another time.
		There's an interesting story that happened up here in the second group.
		Second group, what do you mean?
		We've had two groups of astronauts up here training for cold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Up in Canada training, yes.
unidentified		Up here just off of our base.
		Right, right.
		First group had a very easy goal.
		It was plus just below zero during the day.
		But second group, it was minus up to 37 at night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they got more Severe training.
unidentified		This third group comes in in March, and by then it should be, maybe the grass will be growing.
		Who knows?
		But you know, your favorite movie, one of your best movies, is The Seventh Sign with Demi Moore.
		That's right.
		And I was just thinking about something earlier tonight.
		Remember one of the signs is when all the fish started dying and showing up on the shores?
		And you know what happened in Europe, the Danube, the rivers leading into it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I sure do.
unidentified		The fish destruction?
unidentified		Did anybody mention this or even thought of that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
		It's far beyond that.
		It's cyanide, but now it's heavy metal.
		And they say the heavy metal released is actually, in the long run, far more dangerous.
		The rivers could have been brought back.
		The cyanide would have eventually dissipated.
		But the metals will keep it dead down to the microbial level for actually years and years and years.
		They have no idea.
		Perhaps even permanently from our point of view as mortals.
		Can you imagine killing that?
unidentified		That's never happened before, I don't think.
unidentified		To that level, anyways.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was Chernobyl.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was a pretty permanent disaster.
unidentified		And they're reaping the benefits of that in Europe still because of children.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then the sarcophagus they've built over that is crumbling.
		And there are thoughts that it is not safe.
		And there could be an explosion at Chernobyl.
		They don't know what's going to happen.
		So we're making some really big, bad, permanent mistakes.
		And permanent, at least from our mortal point of view.
		In the long run, cosmically, everything will be all right.
unidentified		Hey, funny story.
		Funny story.
		The astronauts, you want to hear this one, Eric?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure.
unidentified		Okay, this is kind of inside information so that the NASA people listen, just sit back and relax, okay?
		But the first group of people that came in, they were payload specialists and whatnot, like nuclear scientists, the whole nine yards.
		Anyways, it was a beautiful summer's day in the middle of the winter, and they had an easy goal.
		And the guy in charge of the camp decided that it was time to move the camp because it's all about working together and doing what you're told.
		So anyways, he said, it was 2 o'clock in the afternoon, and he said, beautiful day, it was just above zero.
		Okay, we're moving the camp.
		And I guess the rest of the people didn't want to do it.
		And they got together and they came back to the guy in charge who's a Sergeant Major, retired from the Canadian Forces, the old British Sergeant Major.
		And they said, this is the way it works.
		Not speaking for NASA, but as a group.
		We're on the shuttle.
		If we want to do something, we get together.
		We have a discussion.
		And if we decide that we're not going to do it as a group, we make a decision, and that's the way it works.
		So we're not moving camp.
		So he just let it ride, and he waited until 2 o'clock that morning.
		Yes.
		And he did a complete bug out.
		You're ex-Air Force.
		You know what a bug out is.
		Oh, yeah.
		They did a bug out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not only that, but I'm an ex-Air Force medic, so I really know what it is.
unidentified		Yeah, that's right.
		Big time.
		So 2 o'clock in the morning at minus 25 to move to camp.
		The repercussions of that big time, hit Texas.
		And the head of NASA training for the astronauts flew up the next day, read the RIDAC to the guys, and said, listen, if you're told to do something, you will do it.
		And since that, things are really on track now, and they've got another course coming down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, listen, I've got to go because we're at a break point here.
		I appreciate it.
		And particularly, your description of the zero day is beautiful.
unidentified		We gotta get right back to where we started from Love is good, love will be strong We gotta get right back to where we started from Wonder what they do on the radio up there in the morning, you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's zero out there, and it's beautiful.
		Welcome to the day, they say on their morning shows.
		Question mark.
unidentified		This is Premier Networks.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		on this somewhere in time Take my back on your baby.
		Oh, my head's coming up.
		We gotta get right back to where we started wrong Love is good, love can be strong We gotta get right back to where we started wrong Oh, oh, oh, oh Oh, oh, oh My heart can never fade away in the winds of bird.
		Midnight at the oasis.
		Send your camel to bed.
		Shadows painting our faces.
		Traces of romance in our head.
		Heavens holding our hands.
		Shining just for us.
		Let's slip off through a sandwich real soon.
		Kick up a little dove.
		Hold on.
		Cactus is our friend.
		He wanted everywhere.
		Hold on.
		Pilly evening.
		Pilly evening.
		You don't have to answer.
		There's no need to speak.
		I'll be your belly dancer.
		Press up.
		And you can be my sheep.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from the 17th of February 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have now confirmed the link.
		And if you'll go to my website, the story that I read you earlier is available For your perusal.
		We've got a link up right now, and if Keith would be kind enough, because of the importance of this, to please put a link in the latest news so you see it right away when you go on the webpage, you know what I mean, right, Keith?
		The headline reads: Here comes the sun.
		This is space science news for February 18th, 2000.
		In other words, a few hours ago, and it's called Here Comes the Sun.
		A full halo coronal mass ejection left the sun yesterday, apparently headed directly for Earth.
		When the leading edge of the disturbance reaches our planet on February 19th or 20th, it could trigger aurora and other geomagnetic activity.
		And we're going to take you to the full story.
		Now, there are other associated problems with such a big blast from the sun, which could include disruption, obviously, of telecommunications.
		It could even, in a very severe form, knock out satellites and do all kinds of things.
		So if you'll check my website, post-haste, I'm sure you'll find the full story, which begins, as I just suggested, here comes the sun.
unidentified		The You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from the 17th of February, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		Yes, indeed.
		I'm on the page myself.
		Right now, it's on the links page.
		I would have to check back, but when you get on the left-hand side, you'll see related links, and you can click on that.
		Keith, I'm sure, is about to get it under the latest news items so that you can just easily do it from the front page for a while here.
		But they have this really neat picture of this incredible halo, a full 360-degree halo, leaving the sun and blasting in literally all directions.
		Pretty neat stuff on my website right now.
		It says website links mentioned on air are posted here.
		Just click on that.
		It takes you to the links.
		When you get to the links, just go down to something called Here Comes the Sun and take a look.
		And the effects of this, apparently, will arrive here on Earth on the 20th.
		So if you begin to see Aurora, you'll know why.
		In the meantime, go up to my website and take a look.
		This is wild.
		On the international line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Bell?
		Yes.
		Hi.
unidentified		Name's Wolf from Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome.
unidentified		Hi.
		Got the story related to you.
		I was hoping you could help me.
		Is it sort of like your Paris trip you had years ago?
		Yes.
		But it was a conscious thing.
		I was going along one time with a buddy of mine hunting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you going to tell me you got an out-of-body experience while you were hunting?
unidentified		Well, no, we were going to the hunting lodge there, driving down the road in the pickup truck.
unidentified		I was a passenger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
unidentified		And I was going along, and we were basically having an Art Bell discussion, UFOs, hunting and such.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There may be your basic problem right there.
unidentified		Well, and he thinks of himself as a bit of an armchair, I guess, psychiatrist or whatever.
		Anyways, he said, will you ever try astral projection?
		And I go, well, what's that?
		How do you do it?
		So he described what you do.
		You leave your body.
		I go, well, okay.
		He says, basically, he says you concentrate, you build a television set in your mind, and you fill in the television screen with what you see in front of you.
		And then you push yourself into it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you riding along thought, oh, what the heck, and tried it.
unidentified		Exactly.
		I do the old Canadian thing.
		I put the old toque over my head to concentrate better over my eyes.
		And I build, you know, the screen of the dash on the truck there and the road and everything.
		And I go, okay, I'm all set.
		And then he says, okay, just push yourself into it.
		So I pushed.
		I pushed in.
		Pushed forward.
		It's not working, right, obviously.
		So I go, okay, well, I'll try pushing back.
		So next thing I know, pow, I'm out of my body.
		I'm in the back of the bed of the truck.
		I go, okay, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't go, okay, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'd go.
unidentified		Well, yeah, I totally know something.
		Yeah, going through my mind at the time.
		I'd go, okay.
		You know, wind blowing through my hair, but I don't feel any temperature.
		So like, you know, you could feel the wind and everything, but the stars are out and everything.
		I'm sitting in the back of the bed of this truck.
		So I bend down there and I look inside the back of the, because it has the big window in the back, and I look inside and there's me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's the back of your own head?
unidentified		No, no, I'm in the back of the truck, like sitting, you know, in the bed of the truck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Oh, yes.
		No, I understand, but you look into the truck and you...
unidentified		Like, you know, there's my buddy driving and there's me looking straight ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you're seeing the back of your head, aren't you?
unidentified		Right, yeah, with my tooth gun and everything, eh?
		He's looking over at me and driving.
		He's looking over at me.
		So, okay, I'm going, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Only Canadians take things like this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so there I was sitting.
unidentified		Yeah, so I figure, okay, I'll try that pushing forward thing now, eh?
unidentified		You know, my feet come up, and I'm floating up over the back of the bed of the truck, eh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oops.
unidentified		All right, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Weren't you beginning to get concerned a little bit?
unidentified		Exactly.
		Yeah, I've wanted to tell somebody for some time there.
		Anyways, so I go along, and I push a little bit further, a little bit further, and I'm right over the lights now, eh?
		Of the front of the truck, eh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you getting any further than that, and the truck is going to go thumping over you?
unidentified		Well, no, I'm not sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your astral body, that is.
unidentified		Yeah, thump over the truck, eh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay.
unidentified		So I look down, and there's the mist, and there's the, you know, the lines on the road and everything.
		Okay.
		That's when I kind of freaked out a little bit, eh?
		So I go at the back of the, in the bed of the truck again, eh?
		Okay, so I get a little more nerve up, and I try it again.
		I get up floating again.
		I go past the lights.
		I just figure, well, I'll just follow the road, eh?
		So I take basically a mental note of all the traffic that I see as long as I'm going along the way.
		Way up in the distance, I see these transport, or it turns out to be a transport, these lights.
		It turned out to be a transport track, and then a motorcycle, and then this, and then that, and, you know, taking mental note of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right?
unidentified		So I'm going along, going along.
		I might have gone maybe, you know, 10, 15 miles.
		Suddenly, everything disappeared.
		There was nothing.
		There was no stars.
		There was no road.
		There was no nothing.
		It was just blackness.
		I think, ah, okay, what did I do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you do?
unidentified		I just waited, basically.
		I waited.
		It seemed like I waited for just a few minutes, maybe five minutes.
		And then everything came back into focus again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In your body?
unidentified		No, no, no, no.
		Like, I'm going down the road and I'm just sitting out there in the middle of nowhere.
		I'm just like, there's nothing.
		Suddenly I, well, what did I do?
		Go out of the universe?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so.
unidentified		I don't have anybody to talk to.
unidentified		I'm just by myself here alone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I got you.
unidentified		So you're waiting and I wait.
		And like I said, everything came back into focus.
		It was sort of like, if you can imagine a good analogy be like coming out of hyperspace in Star Wars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear you.
unidentified		Suddenly.
unidentified		You know what I mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So how did you get back to your body?
unidentified		Well, I figure, okay, everything's cool.
		All right.
		I went down the road a few more miles, and I figured, okay, well, maybe I should start hitting back, eh?
		So I call it relaxing, eh?
		What's that, sorry?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that what you call it?
unidentified		Yeah, I call it just relaxing.
unidentified		Like, I just sort of shrugged my shoulders, relaxed, and I was at the back of the truck again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe after the 35th time you've done it, but this experience to me, as a first experience, sounds flat terrifying.
unidentified		That's probably why I've never tried it since.
		But that was one of the questions I was going to get to you there eventually.
		So, okay, I relax some more, and I'm at the back of the truck, right?
		Yep.
		And then I relax some more, and then I'm back in myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back in yourself.
unidentified		Right, back in my body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		So I relate this whole story to my buddy, and I tell him all the traffic I saw on the farmhouses, and, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can I make a guess?
unidentified		Shoot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You guys get to your destination, and your friend refuses to give you a gun.
unidentified		Oh, no.
		Well, he should have.
		He gets worse.
		So I just finished relating this whole story to him, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And way off in the distance, there's that transport truck.
unidentified		And then the motorcycle, and then the farmhouse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So here comes everything you saw.
unidentified		Right.
		So one of the questions I was going to ask you was that is that like, okay, like when you did that Paris trip, would you say that's sort of like when you're at when you're at No, between what occurred to me and what you have just described occurred to you, there is no relationship.
		Well, yeah, okay, but I mean, just the whole idea about mapping the future, so to speak.
		Like you go down the road, you map.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, I get the spirit of everything.
unidentified		Is an out-of-body experience, or can it be actually traveling the future also?
unidentified		Would you call it that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's what I would say, that everybody that I have spoken with regarding out-of-body astral travel, whatever you want to call it, says that there is not linear time nor space as we know it within the dimensions that we now live.
		So that when you're out of that, seeing the future, seeing time as depicted with this wonderful analogy of the road and what's down the road would be entirely possible.
		That's all I can tell you, and that's all I know.
		And it was not at all like what happened to me.
		And only a Canadian can be laid-back enough to tell a story the way he told it.
		And so, you know, I pushed back, and there I was in the back, and then I pushed out, and I was up on top, and then I was on the front near the headlights.
		And, you know, sort of matter-of-factly, if you will.
		Canadians are so laid-back about things.
		Me, I would have totally freaked out.
		Completely freaked out if that happened to me.
		I never could have described it that way.
		Hey.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Oh, good evening.
		Let me turn my radio off.
		Good.
		Getting back to the dream subjects, I've had a life of sensitives around me, and it's been about 45 years of different dreams.
		And even I was able to interpret one that saved my ex-husband's life.
		Anyway, the gentleman that was talking about tornado dream with no one listening, reoccurring dreams are very important.
		They're like the Lord is telling you because you're so busy that sometimes the only way he can get through to you is through your dreams.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's why I pressed the ladies a little bit about the possibility of it being precognition.
unidentified		Well, sure, buddy, Holly dreamt of being in an airplane and crashing into a schoolyard over and over and over until it finally happened.
		And everything is symbolic.
		My daughter had a tornado dream for years until she was in one, and then she didn't have them anymore.
		And the very fact that he is having this dream now, part of it's already materialized because no one is listening.
		They sure weren't.
		And they're very personal.
		Dreams are very personalized.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what's going on right now?
		Here's why it bothered me.
		All right, I'll just lay it straight out for you.
		You've obviously seen, unless you've had your head in the sand, what's been going on in Georgia and the South in January and February, which never, ever should be.
		And our weather is going bonkers.
		Now, if somebody in Phoenix is dreaming about tornadoes.
unidentified		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I'd like to say I'm surprised and that's silly because they don't have tornadoes in Phoenix.
		To which I would now add, usually.
		I appreciate the call.
		I mean, what else can you say?
		Hi there.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Oh, let me turn my radio down.
		Okay.
		Okay, thanks.
		Hey, you mentioned about that event on the sun.
		I'm not by my computer now.
		I was there earlier in the evening.
		You're saying this occurred on the 17th?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The 18th.
unidentified		Okay.
		Oh, okay.
		That's why, because I was at 9 o'clock Pacific time, I was on the Chicken Ella charts.
		I didn't see anything, any X-ray flux.
		So you must be seeing it, because I know on your website you have that little solar watch panel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's not on that.
		Although it may be, I don't know.
		I can only read you what, in fact, is reported in Space Science News for February 18th.
unidentified		Right, because obviously when that thing occurred, that X-ray flux was just obviously the first thing that hit the ball.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The first blast, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, that thing must have just jumped.
unidentified		You know, do you remember when you had that article, you were discussing about in May when the solar wind went to minus like 98%, it dropped?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It almost stopped cold, actually.
unidentified		I remember seeing that.
		That was phenomenal.
		You had a caller the very next day at the top of the hour, unfortunately.
		And he was saying that if that did in fact occur, because he never saw the article, he was saying that all those particles that are normally supposed to be flowing out of the sun, if they got trapped in the sun due to some gravitational anomaly, that those particles would be cooking and cooking until some major event would release it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and then he was right at the top of the hour he was going to go into the You know, the scientists really don't understand all of this.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		But that's kind of huge, a full, a halo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you can actually see they've got them.
		You know, if you take several GIF photographs, which they've got up there, and you put them in sequence, you can actually see the motion, and you can see this halo blasting away from the sun.
		So when you get near your computer, you've got to see this one.
unidentified		And I'll tell you, too, and watch the events now the next couple days, because remember when there was that big, huge spike in our magnetic field, I think, days ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I sure do.
unidentified		Yeah, and then just watch a couple days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, it went straight off scale.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They couldn't even measure it.
unidentified		Exactly.
		And you'll see, all of a sudden, there'll be either a run of six-point earthquakes or more, or you'll see the last solar storm we had, then there were the tornadoes in Georgia.
		And it doesn't really take a rocket scientist to figure out the connection here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I have thought for years and years and years I've been connecting solar activities with earthquakes.
		That's my own little pet thing that I've been following for years.
unidentified		Yeah, you and me both, because of the fact that, just through the common sense, if you're taking on this type of energy, where is that energy going to go?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I talked to Jim Birkland about this, and he went, yeah.
		Right.
		So it'll be interesting to watch the next few days in more ways than one.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Rachel, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Thanks for the call.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Listen, what you experience is bleed-through from somebody else's dream, somebody else's subconscious?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think so?
unidentified		Yeah, it's probably another member of your soul group.
		And what's happening is your psyche's reaching out to them for additional psychic energy.
		So if it's a contemporary process, you should try to seek that person out so you can pull your psychic energy.
		The process is actually called dream sharing.
		And a lot of the indigenous peoples engage in that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are so many details that checking this out, I mean really checking it out, if necessary, getting on a plane and going to check it out, would be something I could do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I haven't decided it's something I'm going to do.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
		Well, I would just follow, you know, your feeling about it, your intuition.
		And if it feels like something you think you should do, it may be happening for a person here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, a purpose.
unidentified		You've got a lot of things going on in your life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got a lot of pressures and all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do, yes.
unidentified		Maybe this extra psychic energy is there to help you.
		I hope so.
		You're my hero, man.
		The truth is out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll put in a vote for that one, too.
unidentified		You're my hero.
unidentified		The truth is out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If anybody finds, it's going to be you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks.
unidentified		Good luck, buddy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Later.
		Well, the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, I made it through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just barely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we're almost out of time here.
unidentified		This is Mike and Kuehall up, Washington, St. Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hey, I just wanted to say on those black triangles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		I saw one in 1982.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then you are a constituent of Peter Gerston's and Causes.
unidentified		This was strange.
unidentified		It was at a carnival on a golf course in New York State.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was as good a place as any, I guess.
unidentified		Yeah, it came over hovered over a patch of trees, and it stopped right above me and three other people.
unidentified		And we just looked up at it for, well, I don't know how long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
unidentified		It just kind of grew small.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you heard probably Peter Gerston, didn't you?
		Earlier, yeah.
		You know, the guy going to court about the black triangles?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When the government comes back and they have to lay all this evidence on the table of the search they did in the emails and all the stuff the judge wants, what do you think they'll have in their hot little palms?
unidentified		I think maybe just, oh, there had to have been thousands and thousands and thousands of people that see these things.
unidentified		And if it's our military crap, then obviously we got the power to go to the stores because I saw that thing take off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't disagree with one word you're saying, but what I'm asking, though, again, is what you think the government will come back with?
unidentified		I think they might come back with some people filing reports.
unidentified		And that's about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what I mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course I know what you mean.
unidentified		And nothing else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, file this report for me right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell everybody good night.
unidentified		Good night, America and the rest of the world.
unidentified		Watch out for those blacked-out stars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed, watch out.
		All right, folks.
		For me, for this week, that's it.
		I'm Art Bell from the high desert where it's been raining and will again soon.
		And the sun's coming.

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