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Jan. 25, 2000 - Art Bell

02:54:06

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Star Child Skull - Lloyd Pye - Peter Davenport - Matt Moneymaker

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49:37

lloyd pye

36:24

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peter davenport

04:01

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jordan maxwell

00:48

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Arkbell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from January 25th, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and or good morning wherever you may be across this great land of ours, from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands in the west eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to the Pole and all the way around the world on the internet.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. And I'm Mark Bell.
		Good evening or good morning.
		We've got a lot to do, so I'm going to get right to it.
		Lloyd Pye in the next hour, along with some confirmation of what Mr. Pye has found at this hour, what we're going to do this hour is going to relate to what happens next hour in a loose kind of way.
		But I think you'll see why we're doing what we're doing.
		In a moment comes Peter Davenport from the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, and we've got a witness who just saw Bigfoot.
		And this witness doesn't have a telephone, so we've had to make special arrangements, and this witness is outside right now.
		We're going to hold up on his name because I don't think we want to use it nor his location.
		And we'll get all that from Peter Dappord.
		In addition, we have an expert on Bigfoot lined up very quickly.
		Mr. Matthew Moneymaker, how's that for a name?
		Is trained as an attorney, currently working in the field of internet e-commerce law, founder and curator of the Bigfoot Field Research Organization, or BFRO.
		So all of that's sitting on hold while we get done, what we're going to do, and we'll be right back with it.
unidentified		So again, Bigfoot has been seen.
		On the show last night or last week, did you know that all the guest information and show information is available online at www.coastocoastam.com?
		The Webmaster Lex has posted everything, right down to the bumper music.
		Now also on the website is a service called Streamlink for about 15 cents a day.
		You can have access to live streaming audio no matter where you are, as long as you're close to a computer, as well as archive shows from the last 90 days.
		You can hear the show on your computer anytime you wish.
		Plus, you'll have access to George Norrie's Tuesday night chats, get the inside story on the show, and the inside story on what's going on on Coast to Coast.
		Just log on to coasttocoastam.com.
		That's coasttocoastam.com.
		Now you can hear Coast2Coast AM on demand.
		You'll be glad you did.
		What did ancient Chinese know about predicting the future?
		Will we save the world or destroy it with biochemicals?
		Who were the Anunnaki and why did they come from Nibiru?
		The answers to these questions and so much more are all in the September issue of the After Dark newsletter.
		It's the official monthly publication of Coast to Coast AM and it's everything you love about this show, printed in four colors and delivered to you or someone you care about for only $39.95 a year.
		Plus, you'll get my monthly editorial, quickening news, oddities, and this month's Q ⁇ A with none other than resident comparative mythologist William Henry.
		It's all in the After Dark newsletter.
		Call now.
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		Subscribe online as well at CoastToCoastAM.com for After Dark.
		Now we take you back to the night of January 25, 2000, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just one more quick thing before we dive in.
		We've got the most remarkable thing on my website.
		You remember the phone outage out here?
		You remember the Sprint report of the phone outage on the FCC page?
		Well, guess what?
		Sprint wrote a letter to the FCC asking them to remove the letter from their website.
		And we've got a copy of that Sprint letter.
		It's unbelievable.
		It's on my website right now.
		This will blow your mind.
		You've got to read it.
		You've just got to read it.
unidentified		You know, it gets deeper and deeper and deeper.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so we've got the sprint letter up there.
		Oh, my.
		What's going on?
		All right, we've got to get this going right away.
		Here from Washington state of is Peter Davenport of the National UFO Reporting Center, and things are hopping.
		It's not always a UFO that gets reported.
		Sometimes it's something like Bigfoot.
		Hi, Peter.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art, and thanks for having us on tonight.
		That's certainly the case.
		I feel somewhat like a fish out of water tonight, but when you run a hotline and you deal with the public, you've got to be prepared for anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have to like doing a radio show of this kind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Be ready for anything.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		I know we have two guests on the line tonight.
		I'm anxious to get to them.
		I'm particularly concerned about the young man who walked to a pay telephone to do this program tonight, and I hope the listeners appreciate what he has done for us.
		In a nutshell, yesterday afternoon, Monday afternoon, we got a call at the National UFO Reporting Center from a very, very credible and shaken-sounding young man who reported to me that at about 3.30 or so yesterday morning, Monday morning, he walked out of his rural home in southeastern Washington state just to get a couple sticks of firewood for his stove.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we're not going to identify his name.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're not going to say the exact town he's in, right?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		That would be my choice, and I suspect he feels.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll ask him that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, here he is on his way to his stove.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		He's on his way to his woodpile.
		He got no further than the front porch of his house, and to his amazement, there was an object standing looking through his picture window that caused him to react so violently that my understanding is he threw himself back through that front door, quickly slammed the door, locked it, locked all the doors and windows.
		Fortunately, whatever was there, and I'm going to let him tell that story, was gone by the time he mustered the courage to look back out through his picture window.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I like his story already, because that's what I would have done.
		If I encountered what I think I'm about to hear, I'd slam the damn door, too.
		He doesn't have a phone, so he's out in the middle of the cold right now to tell us his story.
		Here he is.
		Let's bring him on the air.
		And hello there, Mr. Witness.
unidentified		Howdy, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Howdy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you want to give your first name or any name or just be Mr. X or what do you want to do?
unidentified		Yeah, that's fine.
unidentified		You can...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, why don't we call you Mr. X so we can call you something?
		Okay.
		About how old are you, Mr. X?
unidentified		I'm 35.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you live in eastern Washington someplace or another?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Small town.
unidentified		I live on the edge of town.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Little town.
		You live in a place without a telephone?
		Yes.
		I mean, why are you all so by yourself up there?
unidentified		Oh, this is...
unidentified		This little town here, I've lived up in the mountains and stuff most of my life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're an outdoor person?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And somewhat of a loner?
unidentified		Yeah?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
		All right.
		So you went out to get some...
		Yeah.
		What's the temperature running like?
unidentified		I don't know.
		It's right down there.
		I'm freezing right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can hear it in your voice.
		I know you're outside.
		So you went out to get some wood for your stove, something that you must do every single day, I'm sure, when it's cold like this.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wood-burning stuff?
unidentified		Yeah, every time my wood burns, I've got to go out and get a few more pieces, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do know.
		All right, so what's outside your door?
		Is it in the woods?
		What kind of area are you in?
unidentified		Actually, it's more desert regioned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Closer to desert than woods.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I sure know about the desert.
		Anyway, so you open your door and you go out to get some wood, and what do you see?
unidentified		Well, I was going to get my wood underneath from a fir tree.
		I had some wood stacked there because the fir tree kept it from getting wet.
		It was real wet snow coming down at the time.
		And I have two doors, and I walked out my doors, and I stepped off my sidewalk to turn to go towards my tree to get wood.
		And right there, underneath the tree, on the other side of my wood pile, was what looked to me like a Bigfoot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doing what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Standing?
unidentified		Yeah, he was standing there, had his arms down to his sides, and he was looking through my window.
		And inside that window there, I got some plants growing on the table with the light on them.
		It's real easy to see in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was looking through your window.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you were looking then back at the house?
unidentified		I was looking down the side of the house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Down the side of the house.
		All right, as you came.
		On his right side.
		Oh, my God.
		So you walked out the front door and down, looking down the side of your house.
unidentified		I was 20 feet away from where he was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How big was this creature?
unidentified		My guess is he was about 7 foot, 2 inches tall.
unidentified		I figured he was about a foot taller than I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're about 6, a little over a 6?
		6'2, yeah.
		And he had to be at least 7, too.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Human features, hair?
unidentified		He looked about like a big ape, you know.
		His hair was probably 3 to 4 inches long.
		It was beautiful, beautiful hair.
		It was grayish-brown color.
		I haven't seen that color on another animal, you know, in the wild.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was it exactly like an ape that we would see in the zoo, or were there differences?
unidentified		The hair was longer.
		Probably he was a little more filled out than an ape, I would say.
		Maybe he looked that way because of his hair, though.
		You know, his kind of bushy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Face like an ape.
unidentified		I didn't get a good look at his face.
		Yeah, I hear you.
		I was looking at him from the side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was it fairly dark out?
unidentified		The light shining through the window there put some light onto him and onto my wood pile there.
		It was nighttime.
		It was 3:30 in the morning around there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did this creature make any...
unidentified		It didn't even see me, Arnard.
		I stood there.
		I was just kind of in shock.
		I couldn't move.
		I was looking at him, and then I just got kind of scared, I guess.
		Fear of the unknown or whatever.
		And I jumped back in through my first door, and I slammed it, and I went in the other Door and I slammed it and I sat down on the couch and I was just shaking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how long did that last?
unidentified		Probably about an hour and a half.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would this creature have been able to see you sitting on the couch?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would it have a view of where you were sitting?
unidentified		No, it didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What room was it looking into?
unidentified		It was looking into my dining room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Into your dining room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you go look out that window at all?
unidentified		No.
		I wouldn't have either.
		I have two dogs, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you know?
unidentified		They were laying there on the floor asleep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's great for guard dogs, huh?
unidentified		They lay by the wood stove, you know.
		And previous to this, three nights, three times, the dogs, the one that don't bark, and its hair stood up and it was pacing around, and the other one, it barks, and it got really ferocious.
		And he'll do that when a skunk comes around, but he was worse.
		You know, I thought he was going to jump through the window.
		And I made him lay down, and I'd go outside and look, and I couldn't smell a skunk, and I didn't see anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was going to be my next question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you smell anything unusual?
unidentified		No, but I don't have much sense of smell either.
unidentified		Peter Davenport recommended that I tell my neighbors for safety reasons, and when I told them, they said that their dogs had been acting crazy too in the middle of the night like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
		Huh.
		So you've had lots of time to think about it now, and I'm sure you've been thinking about not much else.
		Are you sure of what you saw?
unidentified		Yeah, I'm real sure, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you finally did get up after being in shock, it was gone.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were there footprints outside?
unidentified		No, the area underneath the fir tree is all covered with the pine needles.
		And around that, outside of the pine needles, is crab grass.
		And it was kind of beat down from the snow and the rain that we've been having.
		And you can walk right through there and turn around and look right behind you.
		And you can't tell any tracks or anything's walked through there, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, any idea, guesses, anything else about this creature?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anything else that you noticed that you can tell us that would help us?
unidentified		Well, not that I can think of, all right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was standing up totally erect.
		I saw a special the other day on, I don't know what it was, you know, one of the science channels.
		And there is an ape that stands on two feet and walks on two feet.
		And they haven't been able to figure it out, but it does that.
		And other than that, apes don't do that.
		They don't do that.
		So you saw something pretty weird.
		You think it's going to come back?
unidentified		Well, I sure hope not.
unidentified		Last night I was pretty shook up last night because I was worried about him coming back, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's why I asked you that, because I would be worried about exactly the same thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, what it is.
unidentified		If he does come back, I hope that I don't panic like I did this time.
		I've got my camera ready now, and I'd sure try not to panic.
		I'd never seen anything like that before, and it just really shocked me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, have you ever seen that commercial running on television where do you have TV?
unidentified		No, I don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't have TV.
		I don't know that you probably haven't seen it.
		It's a joke.
		It's where this lady is being confronted with this giant black bear.
		And there's this guy giving advice, and he says, you know, if all else fails, listen to me very quietly.
		Don't move.
		Walk up to the bear very quietly and box both his ears.
		Bad, bad advice.
		And I'm not telling you what to do, but I would be disinclined to pop off a flashbulb, for example, in front of a creature like that.
		But you do what you need to do.
unidentified		Well, I always thought before if I ever run into one, you know, I'd try and communicate with it somehow or something like that.
unidentified		But I was just shaken so bad and everything, I just really panicked.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen to me.
		That's what I would have done.
		I'd have panicked big time.
		Your story makes all the sense in the world to me.
		Peter, anything you want to add?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Well, I asked our Mr. Witness yesterday whether he had a weapon that would allow him to stop an animal of that size if he had to, hoping he wouldn't, of course.
		And one thing our witness pointed out to me is that he was trembling so badly that even though he's skilled in handling weapons, he thinks he wouldn't have been able to use the weapon.
		That's part of the reason I thought this was a very good case and that the listeners of Coast to Coast would like to hear about this case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you have shot that thing, sir?
unidentified		Well, I sure wouldn't want to have shot it.
		The only way I would have done that is if I, you know, was sure that it was going to harm me.
		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that makes sense.
unidentified		And when I went back in, I have a little handgun, and I'll tell you, it felt real darn small.
unidentified		I wanted to go get a bigger weapon, but I was afraid to walk past my dining room window.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know, unless you get it just right, small caliber weapons would make something that big angry.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
		I think it did take a pretty good sized round to bring something like that down.
		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But nevertheless, did you sit with it?
unidentified		Did I sit with what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, as with your gun.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, it was right there beside me.
unidentified		I was just waiting for something to crash through the door of the window, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, see, you did, I hate to say it, but exactly what I would have done.
		I would have panicked.
		I would not have confronted the animal.
		I might have thought about a camera, but I'm not so sure that I'd have had the guts to do it.
		So you really did exactly what I would have done.
		I want to thank you for coming out in the middle of the night, in the cold, to tell this story.
		When I know you really didn't want to tell it at all in the first place anyway, did you?
unidentified		No, Art.
		I really didn't.
		I'm not going to be bragging about this to my friends and stuff, that's for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate your coming on the program, sir.
		And if more of you would do what you have done, maybe we'd get to the bottom of what all's going on out there.
		Thanks so much.
unidentified		Thank you, Lark.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, Mr. X, who doesn't want to be known, nor does he want to know, want it known rather, where he is specifically.
		He doesn't want any notoriety.
		And you just heard what he ran into.
		So as always, with this program, assimilate what you heard, make judgments, do whatever you want to do.
		But there it is.
unidentified		I think that was a very credible report.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I thank Peter for bringing it here.
		In a moment, we've got an expert on Bigfoot.
		And Peter Davenport right back here.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 25, 2000.
		Coast to Coast AM from January
		Coast to Coast AM from January 25, 2000.
		25, 2000.
		A very old friend came by today.
		For he was telling everyone all that he just found.
		And breathe for me of the way it is.
		He talked and talked.
		And I heard him say that she had all his fucking hair.
		The prettiest dream I've anywhere.
		And breathe the main of the way to spray.
		No one smiles.
		And we're fucking crazy.
		What else was there for me to do?
		Would you believe that yesterday this girl was there?
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 25th, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell you what, you be honest with yourself.
		What would you have done in that man's position?
		Anything really different?
		Would you have been brave?
unidentified		Would you have walked up to this creature and talked to it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you may be telling yourself that, but I wouldn't have done it, and I doubt many of you would either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I found his reactions to be right on the money.
unidentified		The End.
		The End.
		Thank you.
		In the future, will we save the world or destroy it with biochemicals?
		And who were the Anunnaki, and why did they come here from the Bureau?
		It's all in the September issue of the After Dark newsletter, the official monthly publication of Coast to Coast AM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Call now.
unidentified		Lines are open.
		1888-727-5505.
		That's 188-727-5505.
		It's $39.95 for 12 monthly issues plus one free one.
		Or go online, coasttocoastam.com.
		You never know what you'll hear on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		Give me an overview of your perception of the occult.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		We know that so much of real important information has been hidden purposely because the people in power always consider that kind of knowledge on a need-to-know basis.
		And you don't need to know.
		All you need to do is do what you've always done.
		Just watch the ball games and be entertained and watch television.
		You don't need to do any thinking and start questioning the powers that be.
unidentified		They don't want us to know.
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		America has been purposely dumbed down and kept ignorant because that just leaves the people at the top a lot of free room to do anything they want.
		I think that we have some extraordinarily powerful people who are not interested in money or power.
		They are after our very souls.
		Period.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of January 25, 2000, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there it is, by direct order.
		All right, once again, we have the story we just heard from Witness X about Bigfoot.
		Make of it what you will.
		Peter Davenport remains online with us.
		And now Peter brings us an expert in Bigfoot.
		As a matter of fact, I guess he's a representative of the Bigfoot Field Research Organization.
		He heads it.
		His name is Matthew Moneymaker, which is a really cool name from Orange County, California.
		And you're not related to Alan Greenspan or anything, right?
		Matthew, are you there?
unidentified		Yeah, can you hear me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I hear you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not related to Mr. Greenspan, right?
unidentified		No, I'm not related to Alan Greenspan.
unidentified		I wish I could say I was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How'd you get a name like that?
unidentified		It's actually an old German name.
unidentified		It was Gesmacher, and it was translated into Greenwich.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Into Moneymaker, huh?
unidentified		And it actually meant coin maker.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coin maker.
unidentified		Originally, and it should have been translated coin maker.
unidentified		It would have saved me from a lot of guff throughout my life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I bet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so somehow or another, you have come to be head of this organization called Bigfoot Field Research Organization, right?
unidentified		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did that happen and when?
unidentified		Well, I founded the organization back in 1995 and pulled in the best and most active field researchers and scientists who are concerned with this subject and concerned that it's not being documented adequately.
unidentified		So we set up an organization to do that and to coordinate field activities where there seem to be good potential to get documentation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen a Bigfoot yourself?
unidentified		I knew you were going to ask that question.
		Actually, it's kind of policy.
		It's going to sound like I'm dodging this, but I have to say no comment there because when you investigate sightings, you don't want to put your own credibility issue.
		But let's just say I have very good reason to believe that this is a worthwhile pursuit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me put it this way.
		I can't imagine you're beginning an organization of that sort without real serious motivation.
		And the only place you could get motivation, in my opinion, of that strength, is to have seen something yourself.
unidentified		Well, you're a very smart guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very perceptive.
		All right.
		All right, you heard Witness X here a few minutes ago.
		Simple guy, simple life, remote location, doesn't even have television, not interested really in any sort of 15 minutes of fame.
		You heard what he just described.
		What do you think he saw?
unidentified		Well, we go through a process to try and determine which scenarios are the most likely in a given case.
		In this case, obviously, we have a few to choose from.
		One, that he didn't see anything, or he saw something that was his own imagination, or two, he saw something that was not a Bigfoot, but gave him a good impression of being one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it that does that, by the way?
unidentified		Usually, it's bears or people.
		But they're usually in less favorable conditions than the one that he was in when he had his sighting.
		In other words, usually they're further away or they happen out of the corner of someone's eye or they see it very briefly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now that seemed a very clear view, if I heard him correctly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For the instant it occurred, it was very good and in the light and close.
unidentified		It did, and that's what leads me to think that it probably wasn't a misidentification, and that it seems unlikely, let's say, that it would be anything other than exactly what he was describing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And with the organization you have, what conclusions, if any, have you actually come to conclusions about Bigfoot, about what this animal is that we have so many sightings of?
		Do you have anything to offer?
		What do you think it is?
unidentified		Well, we believe the evidence points in a particular direction, and that direction is that it's either the same species or a descendant of a species that was known to exist and thought to be completely extinct.
unidentified		And the thought is that this particular species or this line of primates never became completely extinct, but settled back into a very scattered nomadic lifestyle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe this is a creature that is somewhere in the lineage of caveman to modern man or that it is completely a separate species?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or is that too much to ask?
unidentified		Well, we think from looking from being involved in this for many years and speaking with a lot of witnesses, many of which were very, very close range looking full frontally at these things in broad daylight, the witnesses indicated something that had the posture of an upright walking primate like a human.
		In other words, if you were to look at it from a great distance, you would think you were looking at literally a hair-covered person.
		But the ones who were closer said, it would have looked like a person from the distance, but they could just see in its face that this was not a human.
		And it wasn't really a gorilla, but neither was it a human.
		It was obviously some kind of primate species that walks upright and therefore cuts the form of primates that would learn to walk upright.
		And so we think it is a separate species and not in the lineage of man.
		But there's other peripheral reasons for that.
		One being that the lineage of man, they behaved very consistently.
		They lived in groups.
		They were pack hunters.
		They had fire.
		This thing, if it operated like any of the known characters in our lineage, we would probably have more contact with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a really good point.
		It's a really good point.
		Are you convinced that such a creature in modern day today with helicopters and airplanes and communication and travel could remain essentially unseen other than these treasured little incidences that we have and that we can talk About and the limited amount of evidence that exists.
		Could a creature this big really remain out of sight as well as it does most of the time?
unidentified		Absolutely.
		No question whatsoever.
		Because you have to understand, even if we have all that technology, it has absolutely no bearing on this phenomenon unless that technology is being directed toward finding the Earth, which it never, ever is.
		For obvious reasons.
		One of the things people ask us about, they say, what about with these high-tech satellites that the military uses and can see the license plate, et cetera?
		We hear that constantly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Well, you know, there's not a gazillion of these satellites around.
unidentified		They're multi-billion dollar satellites.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nor are they looking for mammals.
unidentified		Exactly.
		I mean, they've got better things to do.
		I mean, at least in their opinion.
		National security.
		And that's just with the satellites.
		But then you say you have the helicopters and all those things.
		The systems that are on helicopters that could be employed are $100,000 FLIR systems that are typically found on their military choppers or police helicopters and occasionally a news chopper across the country.
		But it would be a hard sell trying to convince a police agency to use their very expensive helicopters to go out looking for a Bigfoot.
		I mean, I would try.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me give you an example.
		For example, in Alaska, I was invited by the National Guard there to go for a ride in Black Hawk.
		And in the Black Hawk, they've got a heat signature kind of radar.
		It's the damnedest thing you ever saw.
		It can look down on an area, and if there is a heat signature above ambient temperature, it will produce an actual picture of what it is.
		Human, it doesn't matter, airplane, whatever would, you know, it kind of paints a picture based on the temperature differential.
		They have that ability in Black Hawk because I sat there and played with it.
		I know.
		So they would see something, but they might well regard it as a bear or something or perhaps even a person.
		But search and rescue is usually in Alaska or the Yukon looking in very desolate areas where if there is a person out, they're at risk of their lives because it's like 70 below zero or something like that.
		So you might imagine a few reports like that.
		Of course, you might imagine they don't report that kind of thing, too.
unidentified		Well, let me ask you, does the agencies that have that, that would employ them for search and rescue, do they, you're saying they just go out looking and seeing if they can find people who need help or are they responding to them?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		Normally they would, for example, somebody would call and say, oh, my God, my husband is overdue.
		He was in a small plane or he was out camping and he was supposed to be in touch by now.
		Search and rescue.
		You know, here's the job.
		Go out and find the person.
		Here's where we think they might be.
		That kind of thing.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		And you're saying in the course of that, should we expect that they're going to see a Bigfoot?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		It could be, but you have to understand in that situation, if they see something on the ground, they get closer to it.
unidentified		Usually somebody who wants to be rescued is going to be waving their arms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		And that's pretty reliable, and that's what they're looking for.
unidentified		And if something looks up, turns, and runs away, then no matter what they conclude it is, they will pretty quickly conclude that that's not what they're there to do, to investigate something else that may be out there and seemingly trying to hide from them or just ambivalent to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it your feeling, Mr. Moneymaker, I love that name, that this is a real creature in our dimension or that there is some paranormal, additional paranormal explanation for the comings and goings that seem so inexplicable otherwise?
unidentified		That's also another frequent question.
		And it's one that we address this way.
		The BFRO gets hundreds of reports every year.
		As Peter Davenport probably has a similar experience, that most of them you can write off because a lot of them are pranks or hoaxes, and we have a pretty good system for screening those and figuring out which ones are apparently credible.
		Even if we take the whole bunch of them, even with the ones that we later determine are fake, we have yet to receive one that talked about characteristics or behavior that would indicate any kind of paranormal abilities.
		There are these paranormal investigators, and of course I know a few of them, who will talk about stories.
		They've heard this story and that story, the Indians, this and that.
		And we very aggressively, more aggressively than anyone, investigate reports that we think are credible.
		And not based on, in other words, if we hear reports where they're talking about that kind of phenomena, we still exercise due diligence and try and find out if there's something to those as well, holding open that possibility.
		But whenever we try and get to the bottom of those rare ones that the paranormal investigators, you know, the paranormalists tend to hear about, you can never ever get back to the actual source of those reports.
		In other words, they're always second, third, fourth-hand reports.
		You go back, you try and get back to that source at some point along the line.
		You're going to get to somebody who say, well, you know, I heard it from a friend and he moved out of the area or, you know, the guy isn't available.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many of them, percentage-wise, don't fall in those categories?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many of them fall into the, oh God, this looks like the real thing category?
unidentified		About 99.99% of them fall into the category of having no interdimensional characteristics and have much more of just a biological entity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		That answers the question, Peter.
unidentified		And see, that's relevant in that when we contrast that with all the rest of that 99.99%, where we're very often able to get to the actual eyewitnesses.
		And we have to take that into consideration.
		The very few to begin with that might mention intradimensional or paranormal behavior.
		We can't get to the witness.
		I mean, in the normal course of doing ones that even describe biological behavior, we would write those off.
		So the evidence doesn't stack in that direction.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Peter?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm delighted to have a specialist on tonight in Mr. Moneymaker because I know very little about Bigfoot.
		I am interested in the subject, but I've learned a lot from what he's had to say here.
		But a couple things didn't come out from our witness that I'd like to add just very briefly here, if I may.
		In the course of attempting to contact him today, which was a bit of a challenge because he doesn't have a telephone out there in southeastern Washington, I talked to the first person who I believe the witness spoke to yesterday after he had had his sighting.
		He walked into town.
		He's a public official.
		And I explained to him I was trying to reach our witness, and he knew him well and said he could help and was very helpful, in fact.
		But we talked about the witness, and he said the official reported to me this afternoon that he knew the moment he laid eyes on the witness yesterday morning after the incident that there was something wrong with him.
		Something wrong in the sense that he had experienced a shock, trauma.
		He just looked different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Trauma.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		He acted different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's trauma.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And yeah, some kind of trauma.
		And it's interesting, the witness's comments about how for years and years he'd told himself if he ever saw one of these things, by golly, he wouldn't run, et cetera, et cetera.
		That's exactly what I've told myself for years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, we all have those plans.
		You know, if a UFO hovers, we're going to immediately run and get the camera.
		Well, it doesn't work that way.
		You hang there with your mouth open.
unidentified		That's right.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		From this gentleman's description of what he saw yesterday morning, I would have been back through that door much, much faster than he was.
		And even yesterday afternoon when I talked to him, when he was indoors in a warm area as opposed to out of doors and freezing to death than he was tonight, I could hear in his voice pauses and a certain tremulo that suggested to me that he was still experiencing perhaps a mild form of shock,
		which is one of the things you always look for in an investigation is telltale signs that the person is giving you other than just a verbal account of what he allegedly had seen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Peter, never enough time.
		Never enough time.
		From the National UFO Reporting Center, you've been listening to Peter Davenport.
		They operate on donations up there, folks.
		I want to give the address very quickly.
		A few bucks if you can.
		It'd be great if it helped P.O. Box 45623 University Station.
		That's two words, actually.
		University Station, Seattle, Washington.
		Zip code 98145.
		And as for you, Mr. Moneymaker, I think you and I probably ought to do a whole program sometime.
		Are you up for something like that?
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Then I will arrange to have you on separately.
		And I will thank Peter Davenport, as always, for all of this and for finding these gentlemen.
		Thank you, Peter.
unidentified		Would I be able to, Art?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		It's been fun.
unidentified		Would I be able to give the web address for the BFRO?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		It's www.bfro.net.
unidentified		And if you have anything to add to this subject had a sighting, we're the place to report it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Done deal.
		We'll be talking to you.
		And Peter, again, as always, thank you.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
		Well, there was something out there, that's for sure, folks.
		But that's it for now.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 25, 2000.
		Music by Ben Thede.
		I don't think that's going on.
		Don't say that you love me Don't say that you love me
		Don't say that you love me
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired January 25th, 2000.
		Oh, you can tell I'm still stuck on this song, can't you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am.
		Good morning, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell and in the last hour we heard a very straightforward explanation from a fellow who lives up in the wilds of eastern Washington who came within 20 feet direct contact with a Bigfoot looked him right in the face.
		This animal, this creature, this whatever, was looking right in his window.
		He went into kind of a state of shock, as you would fully expect he would.
		We had a report from him, as well as a report from a Bigfoot expert, and of course Peter Davenport here from the UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, Washington as well.
		Now, that is going to kind of fit in with what we're about to do.
		I'm going to have Lloyd Pye on.
		Lloyd Pye is an author.
		He's written a book called Everything You Know is Wrong, which is kind of an interesting book title all by itself.
		Everything You Know Is Wrong.
		And I guess we can talk a little bit about that book.
		We'll have the time.
		But Lloyd has made a discovery that may relate to what we were just talking about.
		That is to say, a creature living with us on this earth that has been here and continues to be here now, but somehow, for the most part, stays out of sight.
		I don't know.
		Anyway, it'd be fun to get his reaction to that first hour.
		So coming up in a moment is Lloyd Pye.
		I really want to call your attention to something that just blows me away.
		You remember the power outage we had here?
		And then there was a sprint report, an official report filed with the Federal Communications Commission in which you may recall it referenced the power outage that occurred here in the Prom Valley and military area 51.
		And it got posted on a government site.
		I followed it.
		Why?
		Because it was a power outage that affected me here in Prom, took out the whole valley.
		And so we found this government website.
		Here it is.
unidentified		And it says Area 51 on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It says Area 51 right there.
		There were other oddities about the outage.
		You know, it said that the breaker was turned off, not tripped, but turned off.
		So I called attention to that because it was on a government site.
		And now Sprint has written a letter to the FCC, interestingly, asking to have the report taken off the FCC website.
		It says, let's see, further investigation by Sprint LTD has determined that the level of service degradation does not meet current reporting requirements as established in the FCC document 91.273, amendment to Part 63 of the Commission's rules to provide for a notification of common carrier service disruption.
		Based on this determination, Sprint LTD requests that the December 22, 99 report for Las Vegas, Nevada be withdrawn.
unidentified		So we've got the Sprint letter up there on the website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So now you can see all of it.
		This is, you know, it just gets thicker and thicker and thicker.
		And so now they want to withdraw the whole report.
		By the way, the Federal Communications Commission has not done that.
		They've removed some names, I understand, but they haven't withdrawn the report.
		This is pretty weird stuff.
		Pretty, pretty weird stuff.
		But I live in a pretty weird place.
		Lloyd Pye is coming on.
		He, too, is pretty weird.
		He'll be here shortly.
unidentified		The End.
		The End.
		How about predicting the future?
		Will we save the world or destroy it with biochemicals?
		Who were the Anunnaki and why did they come from the Bureau?
		The answers to these questions and so much more are all in the September issue of the After Dark newsletter.
		It's the official monthly publication of Coast to Coast AM, and it's everything you love about this show, printed in four colors and delivered to you or someone you care about for only $39.95 a year.
		Plus, you'll get my monthly editorial, Quickening News, Oddities, and This Month's Q ⁇ A with none other than resident comparative mythologist William Henry.
		It's all in the After Dark newsletter.
		Call now.
		The lines are open at 188-727-5505.
		That's 1888-727-5505.
		It's $39.95 for 12 monthly issues plus one free issue tossed in for a limited time.
		Subscribe online as well at coasttocoast AM.com for After Dark.
		Here's what you missed on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		People continue to push for this disclosure, but it never seems to come.
		Did they know at any particular time that we didn't have control over it, or did they know that there was going to come a time when we were going to know things and they needed to get us accustomed to it?
		People have always speculated there's going to be a big announcement.
		I think the change is gradual and it's happening every day.
		Now we take you back to the night of January 25th, 2000, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The others are also here right now.
		I'm one of them.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Hi.
		And here's Lloyd Pye.
		And again, Lloyd has written a book called Everything He Knows Wrong, but that's not what the show is about tonight, although it's a good book.
		Lloyd, welcome back.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		I'm so glad to be back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I had you on, of course, as a guest before talking about your book, which I really like, Everything You Know Is Wrong.
		And since that time, a lot's happened to you.
		You stumbled into something, I guess, didn't you?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Right, I sure did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you stumble into?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, because of the book and the attention that it brought, some people who were the owners of a skull, a very special skull, contacted me and asked if they could have a meeting with me.
		They wanted to show it to me.
		They were of the opinion that it might be not entirely human, and they wanted some verification from somebody who would know a little bit more about it than they did.
		Because of my book, as you know, it deals a lot with both bones and genetics.
		And so that was the two things that were pretty much required to find out what this skull really was.
		So they showed it to me, and as soon as I laid eyes on it, I was absolutely enthralled, particularly with the eye sockets, which is what I saw first.
		My father was an optometrist.
		I know what eyes are about.
		I know what eyes are supposed to look like.
		And I knew that these were absolutely unearthly eye sockets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let me stop you before we even get any further.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was a group of people who came to you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Several?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		How many?
		It was a meeting, the owners and some friends of theirs.
		And we had a meeting, believe it or not, in the lobby of a motel that I was staying in on one of my speaking venues.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's fine.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		And we just pulled it out right out there in the left.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One obvious question is, questions would be, where did they get skull?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, the skull had been given to them by a gentleman who had received it from the woman who found it.
		It goes back a ways.
		60 to 70 years ago, a woman who was at the time a teenager was taken to Mexico about 100 miles southwest of Chihuahua by her family.
		They were all American citizens, but they went to visit the old home folks at the old homestead, which was a small village in a mountainous kind of area.
		They took her there to visit.
		The first thing they tell her when she hits the ground is, do not go into the caves and the mine tunnels in this area.
		That's taboo.
		We don't go there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old was she?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		15, 16, 17, 18.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So at that age, that's exactly where you go.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly where the age you are when you are told not to do something, you're going to do it.
		So she snuck away as soon as she could.
		And in a mine tunnel, she said, and we can assume she would know the difference between a mine tunnel and a cave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, a mine tunnel is, you know, it's got supports.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's probably got support.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		It's just cored out.
		It's a tube rather than just all over the place like a cave is.
		She said, mine tunnel, we have to assume she knows what she was, she knew what she was talking about.
		At the rear of that mine tunnel, she said, she found a human skeleton lying on its back, facing up, and it was just there.
		The bones were there, and beside it was, she noticed a hand coming up out of the soil beside it.
		And the hand, that was all, was wrapped around one of the upper arm bones of the skeleton lying on the ground.
		Of course, this intrigued her, but it also frightened her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Now, wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Skeleton on the ground, back of the cave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hand coming up from below the ground.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Out of ground, right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With its curled up around the arm of the skeleton.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Man, I'd be out of there so fast.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, apparently the girl had a little more nerve than I had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you.
		But maybe she did the first time and realized that it wasn't alive and wasn't going to get her.
		But, you know, maybe, too, at that time, 60, 70 years ago, she was a little more used to seeing death around her than we are today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is she still alive?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		No, no, she's been dead for some days now.
		So anyway, she peels the dirt.
		She gathers her courage and she peels the dirt off the hand to see where the hand's coming from.
		And she finds a misshapen body, not just a misshapen hand, but a misshapen body.
		And it's much smaller than the one lying on the ground, which itself was a small body.
		We've calculated it would have been about five feet tall.
		And then, of course, it had a very misshapen head.
		So she recovered all the bones in a basket.
		She had told them, apparently, that she was going out to pick fruit or berries or something.
		So she had a large basket.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So she got all, not just the skull.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		She got all the bones, put them in the basket.
		But she knew she had done something terribly wrong, but she felt compelled to keep them.
		So she hid them behind a tree near the home where she was staying in the hopes that she'd figure out a way of what to do after she could get up the nerve to talk to somebody about it.
		A couple days later, a torrential rainstorm came and just drowned everything.
		And a couple days later, she went back to see if anything was left, and nothing was.
		Everything had been washed away.
		She went down where the rain, the gully would have gone, and everything washed away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean all the bones were washed away?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		All the bones were gone.
		But she went looking, and she found the two skulls minus the lower jaws.
		Your lower jaw is not attached to your skull.
		Your mandible is not attached by anything.
		So the mandibles were gone, but she did find the two skulls.
		She took those back, snuck them into her baggage, told no one, and snuck them back into the States, and then didn't tell anybody, but just kept them her whole life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She immigrated to the U.S.?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		No, she was a U.S. citizen.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Her parents had come in, as I understand it, you know, illegally, and then they had become legal in her mid-teens.
unidentified		Holy man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The first problem I have with this is that if you had a bag of bones, in other words, an entire human being's bones, say in a basket.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, there'd be a lot of people that would want to ask you questions, at least in this country.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're 100 miles southwest of Chihuahua, Mexico, 60 to 70 years ago, in a small rural village where there's nobody seeing her.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Nobody knows what she's doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And she brought these bones back through customs.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
		Two skulls.
		Two skulls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, even two skulls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She brought through customs.
unidentified		Right.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, apparently customs was not as thorough then as they are today.
		And apparently she just put them in with the laundry and got them through somehow.
		They certainly didn't have scanners like they have now.
		It would have had to have been done by hand.
		The family comes through.
		The little girl's got her bag.
		You know, you can assume they just waved everybody through.
		I don't know what to tell you, Art.
		This is the story we have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have to go with it.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		So she sneaks them back in, she keeps them her whole life, and as she's nearing death, she asks an American friend of hers, a man, if he will take the skulls for her and just keep them for whatever reason.
		And he says, yes, he would.
		Well, his wife apparently did not like having a cardboard box with two skulls in the garage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Come with you.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		So she asked him to get rid of them.
		So he found a younger couple that were UFO knowledgeable, showed the skulls to them, and they felt like that skull looked like it would fit in the head of a gray.
		And so they said, this is terrific.
		This is amazing.
		And he said, would you like them?
		And they said, yes, absolutely.
		We'll take care of them.
		And so they took them from him, free and clear.
		So they are the couple that contacted me and asked my evaluation of it, what I would do with it.
		And that's how I ended up with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's an amazing story.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		I became the caretaker.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I understand fully the woman's feeling about the skulls.
		Most women wouldn't want skulls hanging around.
		And so I understand the chain of custody here, how this all occurred and how they got them and why they came to you.
		And so now she has...
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Two skulls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Two.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		The human one that was lying on the surface of the ground and the skull that was buried in the ground.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Minus the mandibles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What can we discern, what do we know now, about the skull of the, for lack of a better name, we'll call it the gray right now?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, we call it the star child because we think that it was a child number one.
		There's a detached piece of mandible, a maxilla rather, that goes with it, maxilla being the upper jaw, the upper right jaw.
		And it had two baby teeth, what appear to be baby teeth attached in it.
		And furthermore, in the upper bone that's there, we x-rayed it and found that it had secondary teeth up in there ready to come down.
		So we have assumed that it was a child, and so we have called it the star child.
		In looking at the shape of the head, it has all of the physical features one would imagine would go in a gray.
		Now, you, I'm sure, are aware of all of the differing accounts that we have of grays.
		There are as many as four or five or six different types that seem to have come out of all of the gray stories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but common in almost all the grays are the slotted, slitted eyes.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Those are the common features, exactly.
		In other words, it's like hominoids, like in your first hour.
		You get a wide range of tales about them.
		Their heights are different, their weights are sizes, but they have these consistently the same characteristics.
		And that's how it is with grays, whether it's tall ones, short ones, or whatever.
		They seem all to have the very strange eyes, the very small lower mouth and jaw area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ken, you're telling me that this skull has that?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		It has all of these things that I'm about to tell you.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		The large heart-shaped upper head, the very flat, slanting downward, sharply rear head, the neck shifted down forward from where our neck is, and the neck being much smaller, much more pitey than our neck is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where can I see a photograph of this?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		You can go to www.starchildproject.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Hold it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a lot.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Do we have a link on our starchildproject.com to anybody who doesn't have it, but www.starchildprojectalloneword.com.
		And when you go there, anybody that does, click your cursor on any of the photographs, and what you'll get is an immediate full-screen blow-up.
		And if you scroll down to the three skulls that sit above the x-rays, when you see the x-rays, the three skulls that are sitting above the x-rays, click on those, any of those skulls, and you'll get a side-by-side comparison between the human and the starchild.
		And there you can see, I think, the best view of the startling differences between the two.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, the website we've got up is www.loydpine.com.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Right.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you then go to my link page, if you click over to links, and the very first link is going to be the Starchild link.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		And you click into that and you will just scroll down through the photographs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		And if you go to the three that sit up, the three skulls of the Star Child, three photographs of the Star Child that sit above the X-rays, and click on either of them, you'll get a side-by-side with the human and the star child.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		But any other photograph that you hit, you'll get a full-screen blow-up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'm to the point where I see the skulls and it says click to the site.
		So I should do that.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Click to the site.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People can perhaps follow along and we can get a more direct link up.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		You see the three skulls, you click to the site, and now you're on the where you'll be able to scroll down through the photographs.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's now running slow because people have followed along with me and so now I've screwed myself up so it'll take me a minute to get there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can nevertheless see the skull in front of me right now.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's find out what we think we know about this.
		I guess the first thing that I would want to ask about is the apparent age or what they've been able to do.
		We'll do that when we get back.
		Stay right there.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 25, 2000.
		What have you done?
		Watching back up till you return.
		I need that door and watching you burn.
		Now it begins, day after day.
		This is my life, sticking with me.
		away from here and it's time to say oh,
		each time you go inside the sand, the smell of the touch, the something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of the touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak roots deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing, to lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing, all these things in our memory before.
		And the young friend,
		Thank you.
		I'm going to take two years It's so hard to do with my fears And to end my life Oh, my God But by now, I know I cannot.
		You're listening to Arc Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 25th, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so all those years ago, down in southern Mexico, we've got this teenage girl who goes into a cave and finds a human skeleton with an arm coming up out of the dirt that's all at the back of the cave, grasping the arm of the human skeleton.
		The skeleton beneath the dirt is exhumed by this young girl.
		The remains of it are brought back and put into a basket, all the bones.
unidentified		There's an ensuing flood, rainstorm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All the bones are washed away except for the skulls.
		The human skull and the alien skull.
		They make it to this country.
		Lloyd Pye gets his hands on them not very long ago.
		We're about to find out more about this skull.
		Like an idiot, I directed you all to that website to the point where I've killed it.
		So if everybody would please back away from that website, obviously it can't handle the traffic right now.
		We'll try and get Keith in and we'll get copies of the photographs and we'll post them up on my website during the course of the show so you can get through.
		But we've got to be able to get through ourselves to do that.
		So back off.
		Let Keith get some photos.
		We've got more bandwidth.
		We'll get them up for everybody to see.
		But right now, I can't move in that Zyka.
unidentified		Zyka on premier radio networks.
unidentified		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 25, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music Music Well, all right, so we are left with, and yes, I am notified by Keith that we now have the photograph up adjacent to Lloyd Pye's name, I think.
		And so you'll be able to view it there.
		We've got enough bandwidth.
		His website just went kaboom.
		So, Lloyd, we've got it up for the masses to see now.
		I hope that's all right.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		That's fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your website stopped dead.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can imagine that you probably have a lot of hits at one point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we have a lot of hits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so we've got particular interest, obviously, is not the human skull, but the skull of what you call the starchild, what seems to be physically a gray.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		It has all of the physical characteristics one would assume a gray would have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now.
		Obviously, you've got to begin testing.
		You're going to test for age first, I suppose.
		Right.
		And you did?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		900 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		900 years old.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		900.
		Height of the Aztec Empire.
		Well, excuse me, the tunnel.
		When we first got this art, we assumed, we just assumed that it would have been within the last 300 years.
		The skulls looked pretty good, and when people would look at them, we'd ask them for just an eyeball estimate, experts and specialists, and they'd say 100, 200 years, maybe.
		So we put it in the time of the Spaniards forcing the natives to dig gold and silver mines.
		It made sense.
		We get back the report, though, finally, and it's 900 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if, in fact, that report dated it by what means?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, we took carbon-14.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Carbon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
unidentified		Carbon 14.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What I wanted to know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Carbon-14.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Carbon-14.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		hundred years.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so we, So what we're looking at is something a mine tunnel that would have been dug in the period of the Aztecs when they were mining gold and silver for their gods.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		So we were off by quite A bit in our estimate there, but nonetheless, 900 years is the result.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody's gods want gold and silver.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Those gods did for sure.
		Excuse me, Aztecs, Incas, both.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, even the early Christian, you remember the gold.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, everybody, yeah, gold is the lowest stone goddess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gold is godly, I guess.
unidentified		Yeah, gods want gold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gods want gold.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Gods want gold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		All the way back to the Sumerians with that one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Oh, that makes sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Obviously, you then go to somebody who knows something about skulls.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got to lead you through this in some way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know how.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		That's fine.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who do you go to?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		I took it to a number of courses in different aspects of cranial physiology, asking them what kind of deformity would look like this.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		And at first they would tell me, oh, well, it's mitzhydrocephaly with cradleboarding, or it's trisomy 18 with cradleboarding, or it's aparts with cradleboarding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what all that is.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		These are all genetic disorders.
		And I wasn't hearing the same thing from anybody, but I was hearing great assurance from everybody that their opinion was correct.
		And so for the first few weeks until I could get, I was out on a road trip at that time that I got it.
		So until I got back to New Orleans, my belief that it was unusual had been pretty battered.
		They were all telling me now there's nothing unusual about this.
		We see these all the time.
		Until I went into medical libraries myself and began to look it up for myself, and I found out it wasn't true.
		They were not telling me the truth.
		Either they were misleading me or they were remembering wrong or whatever was the case.
		There was nothing like that in the books that I could find anywhere having to do with deformity.
		And there are certain rules of deformity, and this thing broke all the rules.
		So it didn't strike me anymore that they really knew what they were talking about, that I had something here that was indeed highly unusual and had never been seen before in terms of a standard genetic type of deformity.
		It really didn't have a name.
		So there are two kinds of deformities.
		There's genetic and there's congenital.
		A congenital deformity is a one-time sperm egg misconnect.
		Something goes wrong, some kind of tragic developmental mistake.
		And in those cases, they almost never survive when they're extensive.
		You can survive one thing going wrong with your head.
		Possibly two things.
		Three things, you're pretty much out of the money.
		This thing, every area of it, all eight major areas, all parts of it, nothing is the same as it would be on a human.
		So, and yet it lived.
		It shouldn't have lived.
		It shouldn't have been kept around in those kinds of societies that long ago when something came out really badly misformed or misshapen.
		There was no stigma.
		If you were to relate this thing to human ages, was there a way that the experts could tell you what the probable age of this we figured it at about five years old to six years old because of the teeth, the baby teeth, and because the suturing of the head was very good and very complete, so we know that it was well past the age of three.
		And it just had the look of a five-year-old.
		Although, admittedly, to those that would look at it, the area between the left rear parietal and the left rear occipital bone, this is the left side of the rear of the head.
		It has something called islands in there.
		These are various little pieces of bone that fill in when an area grows a little too quickly on one side or the other.
		And these were fairly extensive.
		They are very extensive.
		And so people would look at that and say, this looks like it's been around for a little longer than perhaps five or six years, but the teeth always held everybody's estimate in the five to six year range.
		So we're still holding with that starchild.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Next thing is you would obviously attempt to do some sort of genetic testing.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, this is where the rubber meets the road in something like this.
		We have to have genetic testing.
		Now, you could make a tremendous case for this thing being not entirely human just off the physical deformities or the physical formations that it has.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was there recoverable genetic material?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		there was indeed but it was not to the degree that we had hoped for we tested for There is forensic and there is diagnostic.
		Now forensic is very broad, very general, and much cheaper than is diagnostic.
		Forensic is a look through a mic, excuse me, a magnifying glass.
		Diagnostic is a look through a microscope.
		Much more expensive, much more detailed.
		So we, because we have had a terrible time, I personally, I take this as my personal fault, I have been a terrible fundraiser for this.
		I have not done well at that.
		And so I did not get the money that we needed to do the diagnostic testing.
		So we had to go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much money do you need to do that?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, to do the diagnostic, it would be in the range of $20,000 probably to do it right and to do it at the kind of lab level that we would need.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		$20,000.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		$20,000, yeah.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		We did the forensic, and it was about $7,000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		$7,000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What does forensic testing tell you?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, what forensic testing can tell you is things like male, female, just general terms, nothing in great detail.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		But we were hoping that the forensic testing would give us enough of a lead so that we could then make a pitch for the money as, you know, we've got it this way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll go further out.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		We'll take it the rest of the time.
		But what happened was the skull was buried in soil that was very highly acidic.
		And so it chopped the DNA instead of having nice long strands like the human one had.
		The human was a female.
		The star child turned out to be a male.
		Now, the strands, instead of being long and nice and easy to read, they were chopped as if they had been put in a blender by the acid.
		Now, the skull itself, the bone, is very highly porous.
		It's very different from human bone.
		It weighs half of what human bone weighs.
		If you look at it under a microscope, it's put together a little bit differently.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It weighs half of what human weights are.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		That skull weighs half of what the human skull weighs, and they're both approximately the same size.
		So yes, anyone and there are many, I've let literally thousands of people hold the two while I was out on the road talking about it.
		And any number of them could call in and tell you that the most startling thing about it is the difference in the weight.
		It's like holding a gourd.
		It's amazing how different it is.
		So anyway, because of that porosity, the acid in the soil was able to leach into the bone at a level that the geneticists had not dealt with.
		It also let the oils from the hands of the people that had held it, my own included, leach in a lot farther than they were used to.
		But nonetheless, what they recovered was much more chopped up than normal by any degree.
		So all they were able to say is that it was male.
		The human-specific probe that caught in there was amylogenin, which is one of the most basic ones, only 100 and something base pairs long.
		But in saying that it was male, it told the geneticist that you had to have an X chromosome and a Y chromosome to create a male, because a female would have been two X's.
		So an X chromosome and a Y chromosome, he has to say, in his view, that it's human, even though he can't see anything about the chromosome.
		He certainly can't see any of its DNA.
		But as far as he can see and as far as his knowledge base allows him to say, it's human.
		The reality of it is he's unable to see down to the level where if this is a hybrid, you would see some differences.
		And he acknowledges that.
		So what we need to do and what he has said in his official report to me is get diagnostic testing.
		And so that's what we're hoping to do, hoping to raise the money to do the diagnostic testing, because this thing has the possibility of being literally the greatest find in human history.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is the diagnostic testing going to run into the same problem as the forensic?
		In other words, not having whole DNA strands to work with?
		And if so, is that going to affect the outcome?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they will have the same problem.
		However, they have more sophisticated recovery techniques.
		That's what diagnostic is, you see.
		So the best lab in the world for this is run by a man named Sfante Pabo, and it's in Munich, Germany.
		Now, Pabo is the man who recovered the 300-some-odd strands of, excuse me, base pairs of DNA out of the 30,000-year-old Neanderthal, if you remember that from a couple of years ago.
		He's also the guy that got the DNA out of Otzie, the ice man, that was recovered under the glacier.
		So this is the lab in the world for doing this kind of thing.
		And if he could be talked into taking this case and doing it, that would be where you would want to go with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you communicated with him yet?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		I have tried to twice, Art.
		I've written him two letters, and neither one has been returned.
		So he's very, very mainstream, obviously.
		So it would maybe take some convincing to get him to do it.
		But I also, in my letters, explained to him that we didn't have much money and that I was having trouble raising money, so he could have just disregarded me for that reason.
unidentified		I really don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there's no other avenue, there's no other organization you can go to that would get interested enough to front the money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, one of the problems that we have with money, with this thing, is we have to be extremely careful not to commercialize it in any way, make it sort of a deal where somebody stands to make money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but I mean, if you walk into the front door of the Smithsonian or, I don't know, some other large organization that would have the kind of money.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't put it in the hands of the Smithsonian art.
		I don't think I'd ever see it again.
		I think it would be disappeared.
		I wouldn't trust them with anything.
		Frankly, I hate to say that, but there are so many stories out there about them disappearing artifacts that didn't fit the paradigm.
		I wouldn't dare do that.
		I would really have to go with people that would be more open to doing this thing on an open and above-board basis, and I don't think they would do that.
unidentified		I really don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you imagine?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I'm imagining this human skeleton lying horizontally with the arm only of the whatever it is, Starchild.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Right, the hand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Grabbing the human arm, and then the body being beneath that.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		In what position, horizontal or one would be on the side of the other, as I understand it.
		It looks to us very much like either a death and a murder and then suicide.
		It's almost impossible to think of any other way that could have happened.
		If that's either the mother or a caretaker or something of this child, it dies and then she buries it and kills herself, or she kills it for some reason and then buries it and then kills herself.
		By taking a poison or something like that, maybe slitting a risk.
		There's no way to know, but it's hard to think of any scenario other than those two possibilities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A mother taking her deformed child's life and then her own maybe?
unidentified		Right.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Or a mother taking the child dying and for whatever reason she would take her own life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to follow with it.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Now, if in fact, and we're going to talk later to Dr. Paula Gunn Allen about these star-child, I mean, the star being legends, there are a number of legends throughout the Americas of gray alien or alien types,
		gods, coming down into primitive areas, and this goes back for hundreds and hundreds of years, these legends, coming down, Picking isolated rural villages like the one apparently that this one was in, and finding women who were generally childless and impregnating them with these hybrid offspring, allowing them to raise those offspring up to the age of five or six or seven or eight, and then they come back and get them and take them away to wherever they go.
		If that is true, and if that happened in this case, one could imagine one of two scenarios.
		The child died under her tutelage, and it's the gods.
		It's a child of the gods.
		She is responsible for this enormous thing.
		They're out picking berries someday.
		The kid eats a mushroom, falls over dead.
		She says, oh my God, you know, and she just takes the child, hides it, buries it, and kills herself for fear that the gods were going to do that to her anyway.
		Or perhaps she gets the word that they're coming in some way to pick up her child, and for whatever reason, she decides she doesn't want it to go, and she kills it and buries it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we're way on a hypothetical legend.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		We're way on a hypothetical legend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've also got a Dr. Ted Robinson coming on here shortly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who's he?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Ted Robinson is a craniofacial plastic surgeon in Vancouver, British Columbia, who really is one of the few open-minded professionals that I ran into in my nearly a year out on the road with this.
		He looked at it, and being a craniofacial plastic surgeon, he knows skulls if anybody does.
		He felt it was absolutely unlike anything he'd ever heard about or seen for sure.
		So he did what most of the others did not do.
		He went to the books in the same way I did, as he will tell you, and he found out that it was true.
		There was nothing like it.
		And so he then became a champion of this thing in the Vancouver area.
		He got us connected with the DNA lab that did the work for us ultimately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're coming to a break.
		What I'm going to do during the break is get Dr. Robinson and Paula Gunn Allen.
		Would I address her as Doctor as well?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		I think you would.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Yes, she's Professor Emeritus from UCLA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then I would.
		Dr. Paula Gunn-Allen.
		I'll get these two on the line, and we will get their views and their opinions on this skull when we get back.
		So the first part of the DNA testing is in, but it's non-conclusive.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 25, 2000.
		Music Music Music
		In the fields I know, in the trees ground with the bad.
		You don't come me there.
		You know, you don't come in there.
		But make you wanna do.
		And you know it don't come easily.
		You don't have to.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 25th, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Lloyd Pye, and he has a skull of what may not be a human being.
		That's what we're trying to figure out.
		But he's got the skull, and we've got a couple of experts coming on.
		One in cranial facial characteristics, an expert in that field who has looked at the skull.
		And one in the mythology surrounding these star, so-called star children.
unidentified		all of that coming up directly Go about predicting the future.
		Will we save the world or destroy it with biochemicals?
		Who were the Anunnaki and why did they come from Nibiru?
		The answers to these questions and so much more are all in the September issue of the After Dark newsletter.
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		Plus, you'll get my monthly editorial, quickening news, oddities, and this month's Q ⁇ A with none other than resident comparative mythologist William Henry.
		It's all in the After Dark newsletter.
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		Here's what you missed on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		People continue to push for this disclosure, but it never seems to come.
		Did they know at any particular time that we didn't have control over it, or did they know that there was going to come a time when we were going to know things and they needed to get us accustomed to it?
		People have always speculated there's going to be a big announcement.
		I think that the change is gradual and it's happening every day.
		Now we take you back to the night of January 25, 2000, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Lloyd Pye once again.
		Lloyd, are you there?
		Yes.
		All right, let us introduce now our first guest, and I've got a couple of them holding, but I thought perhaps Dr. Ted Robinson would be appropriate first.
		He is a cranial facial expert, a plastic surgeon, I guess.
		Is that correct, Doctor?
		That's correct.
		So you are a cranial facial expert by virtue of the fact that you do plastic surgery?
unidentified		Well, that's correct, Dart.
		I have been practicing as a plastic surgeon now, including my training for 35 years.
		And also, I've been a bit of a bug on paleontology and anthropology.
		And in the year 1968, I taught for a year at the University of London in London, England.
		And I worked beside Michael Day, who is a physical anthropologist, who was at that time receiving Richard Leakey's specimens from Lake Rudolph.
		And at that time, of course, I became quite fascinated in the whole subject, and I've followed it ever since.
		All right, so you're familiar with human evolution.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're obviously very well qualified then to be talking to us about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lloyd came to you at some point with this skull.
unidentified		Directly through a friend of ours, common friend, showed me the photographs and asked me what I thought, and I just said that I hadn't ever seen anything like it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What delineate, you've never seen anything like it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would that include the possibility or even probability of a simple human deformity?
unidentified		Well, of course, in the course of human evolution, we've gone through a lot of changes over the last four million years.
		And one of the striking things, if you, as an example, I don't know if anyone who's listening has a copy of the August 23rd, 1999 copy of Time magazine.
		It's quite a good article on how man evolved.
		And if you take Australopithecus afarensis, a creature that existed 3.6 million to 2.9 million years ago in Leytoli, Tanzania, the striking thing is the very small brain case and the very large face.
		And with evolution over the last four million years, what has occurred has been a gradual expansion of the brain case as the brain became larger and the face has become smaller.
		And Lloyd has measured, I'm taking Lloyd's words for this because it's a tricky thing to do, but he has measured the brain volume of this particular skull and states that it's 400 cc's larger than a human adult.
		Now, in terms of our evolution, 200 cc's increase constitutes a different species of creatures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A different species.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would there be any measurable difference between a human of 900 years ago and a human of today?
unidentified		Absolutely none.
		In fact, for the last 50 to 100,000 years, the only two types of so-called humans that have existed have been the Neanderthal and the Homo sapiens, both of which had a similar brain size, although the skull of the Neanderthal was much more robust, very large brows and very heavy bones compared to ours.
		But the brain size was the same and the face was roughly the same.
		Here we have a skull which is very large in terms of the brain size.
		What we can see of the face is very small.
		We have to add that part of the face is missing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, although in profile you can see the face and it's an odd one indeed.
unidentified		It is.
		And there's so many things about it that, you know, you asked me about human deformities, genetic defects, that sort of thing.
		I mean, obviously in plastic surgery we see many children who are born with chromosomal abnormalities, hydrocephalus, what is called craniosynostosis where the suture lines between the different bones fuse prematurely causing a very odd shape to the skull.
		And we know for a fact that none of these conditions fit this particular skull.
		You know, people have said, well, if it's got a large brain, it must be hydrocephalus, because what happens with hydrocephalus is that the cerebrospinal fluid is produced in the ventricles, in the central portion of the brain, and can't get out, so it just expands like a balloon and does produce a very large skull, but in the process of doing that, it erodes the inner table of the skull.
		And we've had now confirmation from no fewer than four radiologists who have seen the CT scans and who have confirmed that there is no erosion of the internal table or the inner table.
		So we've definitely ruled out hydrocephalus as an explanation.
		And in terms of cranial synestosis, all of the sutures in this particular Skull are open and growing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Say that again, please.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All of these sutures?
unidentified		Yes, the sutures are the places, they're the actual growth centers between the bones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, oh, oh, I see.
unidentified		Which fuse in adulthood?
		Yes.
		And these are all open.
		So unfused, not an explanation for the deformity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many points of difference when viewing the skull or the photographs are there?
		And does it cause you to say this is not or was not a human skull?
		Or do you lean in that direction?
		How strongly do you feel about it?
unidentified		Well, there are two possibilities here.
		I don't want to speculate, although I, you know, off the cuff may have my own ideas.
		The orbits, if you can see them on the photograph, are very shallow compared to a human.
		The optic nerve comes through very low, about halfway down the nose, which is very different from human.
		Boy, it sure is.
		If you look at the skull from the top, and I don't know if you can do that, but the skull is very broad across from one side to the other.
		There is what I would call an enormous temporal bossing, which would suggest to me that this was a highly intelligent creature.
		I don't know if you noticed the article, but there's a Canadian pathologist that still has the brain of Einstein.
		And there was a report recently, I guess it's still being studied, because what they found is that the temporal region is missing a fissure.
		The fissure is filled in with brain tissue.
		And the cerebral cortex of Einstein was 15% larger than the average human.
		And they didn't know that.
		Yeah, they think that this may be why he was so intelligent when it came to mathematics and spatial concepts.
		And this particular skull, even though it is apparently the skull of a five-year-old, had huge temporal bossing.
		It's also very unusually short from front to back.
		One of the most striking things is the flattening.
		Now, this is not cradleboarding.
		There is flattening at an angle which runs down from the top of the skull towards the framen magnum, which is where the spinal cord comes through.
		And it practically, it's interesting.
		I belong to a surgical journal club, and there was a neurosurgeon giving a talk one night, so I just thought I'd throw a little bit of a curveball at him.
		And I took the CT scans with me.
		And he was struck by how unusual the CT scans were.
		And I said to him, Andrew, I said, you know, is there room in this skull for a cerebellum?
		And he agreed that there didn't appear to be it.
		I mean, it would seem that this brain must have been wired very differently from a human brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		That sounds like a lot to me.
		So there are many, many points.
unidentified		Many points.
		Another point, I don't know if you can see it from the side.
		The human ear is almost directly back from the orbit.
		This one is way lower.
		Another point is that if you look at the back of the skull, the occiput, there is an area of muscle attachment called the inion, which holds the head upright.
		Our neck muscles are quite strong because most of the weight of the skull is in front of the foramen magnum.
		This child, if you want to call it that, has practically no idion.
		So it suggests, I mean, we can learn a lot from muscle attachments even though the muscles are no longer there.
		And you would have to say that this creature had a very, very slender neck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of feeling are you left with, or were you left with when you first began examining this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you think you were looking at?
unidentified		Well, it's difficult to relate it to anything that I've seen previously.
		I cannot rule out the possibility of some as yet and previously unknown genetic abnormality, or it could be some other species.
		It's not animal.
		I mean, there's no animal that has a brain larger than a human unless you're talking about, you know, an elephant or a whale.
		But this is humanoid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Humanoid.
		Humanoid.
		But on balance, so many differences as to not in your...
unidentified		Well, I think there's a possibility that it's not completely human.
		I'm sitting here looking at a text.
		It's called Pediatric Otolaryngology by Cummings and Friedrichson.
		There's a beautiful series of illustrations of skulls at different ages.
		One of them is a five-year-old skull, five to six-year-old, and it just absolutely does not look anything like this skull.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a very non-trivial thing to say.
		In other words, it's like being a...
		If it's not quite human.
		If it's not human, then it's not human.
		That's all there is to it.
		In other words, not quite human is not human.
unidentified		there is that implication haha perfect uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you shown it to other colleagues?
unidentified		Oh, I have indeed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you take the CT scans?
unidentified		Yes, I have them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you take them or did some?
unidentified		I've shown them to three radiologists.
		I think the radiologist who probably carried the most weight was the head of pediatric neuroradiology at Children's Hospital in Vancouver.
		Right.
		And he was clearly struck by how unusual this skull was.
		I mean, this guy spends all day every day looking at x-rays of skulls.
		And he was startled.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		If I could interject, Art, the man who took the CAT scans was the head of pediatric radiology at the Children's Hospital in New Orleans, Dr. Joseph Smith.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what did Dr. Smith think?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, that he had never seen anything like it either.
		Same thing.
		Anyone that knows anything about it from a technical standpoint is going to have that reaction.
		They can't have any other reaction because there really is nothing like it.
		They really will never have seen anything like it before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it possible, Doctor, since you're a plastic surgeon, to, from that skull, do a reconstruction of what the face would have looked like?
unidentified		Well, that's an interesting question because the gentleman who did the DNA for us is someone that I have known for a number of years.
		He is quite prominent in the world of forensic pathology when it comes to DNA for forensic purposes.
		He's asked to go all over the world to look at murder victims and try and identify who the criminal was who performed the act.
		And he's a guy that actually, if you saw the movie Gorky Park where they did adding the soft tissues to see what the face would look like, he's the one that developed that technique.
		Now the problem that we have here is that they do that by determining the average depth of tissue over a particular bony prominence.
		And we don't know whether this follows the usual formula and one suspects that it might not.
		However, you know, Lloyd has done some work in that area and I think he may want to talk about it.
		I personally wasn't terribly impressed with some of the work that was done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		In other words, you would have to know more about the species in question to be able to accurately.
		Exactly.
		So then your assessment is that we have something that is either Lloyd was saying earlier that with X number of points of deformity, that you might live with one or two or three.
		But with the number of deformities present in this case, he didn't think the child would have lived or could have lived.
		Now, I want to hold you over for a minute, and when we get back, I want to ask you about that, whether, in fact, this creature would not have lived under such circumstances.
		So that's exactly what we'll do when we get back in just a moment.
unidentified		So stay right where you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The photos on my website, you're going to want to take a look.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 25, 2000.
		My sweet Lord, you my Lord, you my Lord.
		I really want to see you, really want to see me new, really want to see you, Lord.
		It takes so long, my Lord, my sweet Lord, you my Lord, you my Lord.
		I really want to know you, really want to go with you, really want to show you love.
		Oh, my Lord, you my Lord, you my Lord, you my Lord, you my Lord.
		Oh, and it's alright, and it's coming over.
		We gotta get right back with nothing wrong.
		Love is good, love can be strong, we gotta get right back to where we started from.
		Come on.
		Do you remember that day, that's the only day?
		When you were paint my way, I didn't know what to make your face get hurt.
		I'm a little thing like me.
		I can bet my back on your bed with it all right and it's coming up.
		We gotta get right back to where we got it on.
		We gotta get right back to where we've got it on.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired January 25th, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is a very interesting night.
		We've got Lloyd Pye, who's got a skull, and you're getting the story behind it.
		Right now, we've got a surgeon on, plastic surgeon, a cranial facial expert, who really sounds like he doesn't think this is human.
		He's pretty far out on the limb, really, in a lot of ways, with how much he's said.
		We'll get right back to it.
unidentified		We'll get right back.
		In the future, will we save the world or destroy it with biochemicals?
		And who were the Anunnaki, and why did they come here from the Bureau?
		It's all in the September issue of the After Dark newsletter, the official monthly publication of Coast to Coast AM.
		Call now.
		Lines are open.
		188-727-5505.
		That's 188-727-5505.
		It's $39.95 for 12 monthly issues plus one free one.
		Or go online, coasttacoastam.com.
		Here's what you missed on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		People continue to push for this disclosure, but it never seems to come.
		Did they know at any particular time that we didn't have control over it, or did they know that there was going to come a time when we were going to know things and they needed to get us accustomed to it?
		People have always speculated there's going to be a big announcement.
		I think that the change is gradual and it's happening every day.
		Now we take you back to the night of January 25, 2000, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Art Bell, Somewhere in Time I don't know, what would you do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you came into possession of a skull like this, what would you do?
		Probably exactly what Lloyd Pye has done.
		We have with us a plastic surgeon, Dr. Ted Robinson, who is also a cranial facial expert, which I guess you would have to be to be a plastic surgeon.
		And if I've been listening carefully, and I think I have, his view is probably that this doesn't seem particularly human, this skull.
		Now, Doctor, we were kicking off points of, for lack of a better phrase, I guess, genetic defect or defect of some sort.
		And Lloyd was saying that he didn't think that a being with so many defects from human characteristics would have survived.
		Any comments?
unidentified		Well, it's interesting that even in modern culture, there are many babies that don't survive.
		You only have to go to China where female babies who are perfectly normal very often do not survive.
		And I believe in the Aztec culture, there were certain types of babies that did not survive, notably twins, which were normal other than being twins.
		And so it's not difficult to imagine if a child was severely deformed and required a lot of care in a primitive society where food resources were scarce, that this child might not survive either medically or for other reasons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Is there anything else that you would like to add, Doctor?
		I don't want to hold you up too long here.
		I just want to get your best shot here, your best guess.
		You've looked at it.
		You're an expert.
		I'm not.
unidentified		Well, there's something that you can't see on the photographs, and that's something that Lloyd made reference to, and that's that the bone is different.
		If you have a craniofacial abnormality, the bone itself is normal.
		The shape may be abnormal, but the bone is normal.
		This bone is incredibly light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They said it weighs half as much as an equivalent.
unidentified		It's like bird bone.
		It is so light you almost don't know you have anything in your hand.
		And we don't know why that is.
		It's also very porous, as Lloyd indicated, which has been one of the things that has caused us a great deal of frustration with respect to the DNA testing.
		But these are characteristics which do not suggest to me that this is an ordinary human skull.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your coming on the air.
		We needed somebody of your sort of authority, and here you are.
		So thank you for staying up late with us and telling us all you could.
unidentified		Well, it's been a pleasure, and I intend to continue working on it.
unidentified		As Lloyd indicated, we are actively seeking further funding because we don't have the end of the story yet, and I would dearly love to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Doctor.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Oh, my.
		Well, Lloyd, that's pretty convincing.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		I told you he would be.
unidentified		I must say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's pretty convincing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't sound like you've got a human skull there in your hand.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's, as he said earlier, certainly not entirely human.
		One can argue that there's some human in there.
		There's certainly a frontal bone.
		There's two sphenoids.
		There's two temporals.
		There's two parietals.
		There's an occipital.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The parts are there.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		They're just not arranged the way human parts are arranged.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		So totally human parts are arranged.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I listened to him very closely, and in every way that he could seem to be trying to say it, even though he didn't come right out and say it, I definitely got the impression that he feels it was not human.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, he has to speak a lot more elliptically than I do.
		I mean, I can tell you there's nothing like that in the books, and those of us that have studied and really looked for it know that.
		This is something, you know, another hallmark no one's mentioned yet, but another hallmark of deformity is asymmetry.
		You get lopsidedness.
		Those who would like to say, will some kind of cranial pressure press those eye sockets down like that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, But it's symmetrical on both sides.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Perfect.
		Not just symmetrical.
		Astonishingly, stunningly symmetrical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, you're beginning to get my vote.
		Let's go now to a different aspect of this, and she's been kindly waiting on the line.
		Her name is Dr. Paula Gunn Allen, and we are just now getting a link to her website on our website, by the way.
		It should be up there now.
		Dr. Allen, welcome to the program.
unidentified		Yeah, hi.
unidentified		It's been fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed, fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, what is your field of study?
unidentified		Actually, my degree is in American studies.
		And I guess you could say I'm a sort of archaeologist of old ideas or old religions.
		I'm Laguna Pueblo from New Mexico.
		And then I'm a writer and scholar and so on.
		And then one of the main things that I did was teach native literature, the oral tradition, and the contemporary writing, poetry and fiction.
		And in the process of doing that, I had grown up with these, what are called star husband stories, at least that's what ethnographers call them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are those?
unidentified		Well, there's a woman or two women, frequently at sisters, and they are laying around one night and they're looking up at the stars and they go, ooh, you know, those are really handsome men.
		And then one will choose one because she thinks he's cute and the other one will choose another.
		And then they'll go to sleep and then they'll wake up and the stars that they chose are now standing there and they're in the form of human men.
		And so they'll go off with them.
		Then they usually are up in the sky somewhere.
		And then the woman or she and her sister, depending, one of them has a baby.
		And then that's okay.
		There's not a lot of details, so they don't tell you about the conveyance they're in or anything like that, but it's some kind of boat.
		And it's way up in the sky somewhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, this almost sounds like the teenage girl's vision of the charming prince.
unidentified		Doesn't it, though?
		Yes.
		And that story is, of course, an extremely old European legend, which, by the way, is one of the weird things about this.
		This story, I'm telling you, is in one form or another all over the Americas, North and South.
		Not only that, in other forms, it's in Africa, Asia, Europe, Australia.
		And you just can't do that unless we're talking about some kind of fact.
		Because they don't come up with the same religions.
		They don't come up with the same understanding of the world.
		They don't come up with the same definitions of almost anything.
		Why would this story keep showing up?
		And of course, story is my field.
		That's what I do.
		Gotcha.
		And anyway, so in this one variant of the story, then she or the sisters both get homesick and decide to come home, but they can't figure out how to get down.
		And then there's some old woman who helps them and who makes them a small basket, puts them in this basket, and then lowers them.
		And then sometimes they come to the ground and they get out and go their way.
		But sometimes they fall or the mother and the child fall and are killed.
		Or sometimes the mother is killed.
		The child lives.
		And it's interesting what he was talking about, the teeth that are still in the jaw.
		These children often have two sets of teeth, that is to say, two rows.
		One row comes in, and then later another row comes in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, these legends then are talking, if I've got this right, about in modern days what we would call abduction, impregnation, and then the birth of a partial human child.
unidentified		That's right.
		And frequently these children grow much faster than human children will.
		And they have all kinds of superpowers.
		And frequently, they're twin boys.
		And you find those twins in Maya land.
		You find them among the Aztecs.
		You find them among my people, the Pueblos, you find them among the Iroquois, the Algonquin, people whose languages have nothing in common, absolutely nothing in common.
		Nevertheless, there are these stories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have seen the skull.
unidentified		No, I have not seen the skull.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You haven't seen the skull?
unidentified		No, I was web surfing one night, and I ran into his website called Star Child.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And I was just thrilled because people who do the kind of research Lloyd is doing almost never know about the star being their star husband.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you even seen photographs of these?
unidentified		Just the photographs on the website as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, fine.
		They're quite good.
		When you look at those photographs, what...
unidentified		I call those eyes savage eyes.
unidentified		That's kind of funny, but particularly in the skull, the way they're close-set, you see how kind of long they are?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And close-set?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		To me, I think of those as Indian eyes.
		I know that we're supposed to have slanted eyes like Asians, but actually that's not true.
		Most Native people have round eyes.
		And only a few that live on the west coast up north have those more slanted Siberian type eyes.
		Anyway, these eyes look like that.
		And the only other thing I can say is I look at that bitch and I go, oh, good Lord, of course, it's true.
		It's like every time I run into evidence that the old stories are not so-called legends made up by delusional primitives with nothing better to do.
		You know, Native people tend to be extremely pragmatic, and they're almost never trippy.
		And so I doubt that they make up anything.
		I've never met a fanciful Indian in my life, unless they were also poets.
		And so the chances are if there's a story that's held on, it's factual.
		Anyway, I'm looking at these and going, there they are.
		And I'm not entirely certain some of the explanations Lloyd has given, he's given because of his background as a Western person.
		There's a lot of things in the skull I'm noticing that are much More reasonable explained in terms of our stories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're saying that these stories, these abduction, impregnation, birth stories.
unidentified		They're all over Native America.
unidentified		There's a whole cycle called abduction stories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not just America, though.
unidentified		No, actually, they're all over the world.
		The Japanese emperor is the son of the sun.
		He's the son of heaven.
		And they believe that he is the son of heaven.
		They're not kidding.
		Well, you think of Moses and the boat.
		So was Osiris and his twin Seth, by the way.
		They were these strange people, and they were in a boat because they had been, their mother was trying to hide them.
		And I think the idea that the gods who aren't gods, they're these other beings, were going to come take their sons.
		And mom didn't want her to lose her sons, I think that's part of the.
		Right, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, whether you're talking about myth of that long ago, which you are studying, or modern-day abductions.
unidentified		Modern day abductions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does myth and legend tell us anything about motive and or anything else?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does it give us...
unidentified		how we interact with them, how they interact with us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you give me a quick 101?
unidentified		Yeah, the quick 101 is we coexist peacefully.
		We don't bug each other.
		We treat them with very real respect.
		And we all coexist.
		It's that old Lakota saying, all my relatives, everybody's related to everybody.
		And one of the main reasons we think that is because we know about these beings.
		And if you start getting disrespectful, they start getting uppity.
		And pretty soon you've got serious problems that you can't do anything about.
		Like droughts, horrible weather conditions, all the things that you've been talking about and writing about.
		And we think those come as a direct consequence of really, really annoying and disrespecting these beings because they are real people.
		They're not human beings, but they're real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they're here.
unidentified		Oh, boy, they've been here far longer than we have.
		They are so old.
		I'm sure they'll be here long after us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		then what is their nature that we see them only sporadically in flashes, you know, in the corner of our eyes?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We don't really...
unidentified		Part of that's what the Mayans were talking about.
		Because they overcame time, they live in more than three dimensions.
		And so the physical rules that apply to them are not as limiting as the physical rules that apply to us.
		So any mystic or any ordinary person in a kind of altered state of consciousness will start seeing them very directly.
		And I think that's because humanity is ready to make that leap into the next, you know, quantum level of consciousness, and we'll see them a lot more regularly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I asked you if there was any...
		Yes, is there, with regard to motive, what motive is there in myth or in whatever that you could tell us about?
		Their interaction with us?
		Why are they interacting with us?
unidentified		Largely they don't unless we ask them to.
		And largely we're very careful about asking them to.
		See, Art, what your question implies is a very Western idea.
		As a Westerner, especially as an American, you think there's got to be a reason.
		But the reason would better be, what are we doing on their planet?
		Because they were here before us.
		And then the next question is, why are we interfering with them?
		And why don't we let them be?
		They mostly let us be.
		Well, they don't really, which is one of the reasons why we've got a problem.
		Better question is, why do they abduct people?
		That's a different question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I did ask that.
unidentified		I know the answer.
		I don't know the answer.
		I do know that I don't particularly trust them.
		And I do know that I'm not real.
		I'm not one of those people that, and most Indian people that I know are not.
		We don't go around courting them and trying to get them to come talk to us because they are very different.
		It's like courting a bear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But so many of the abductions that we've heard about have not been exactly voluntary.
unidentified		And I don't know what that's about.
		I honestly don't, unless they're trying to defend themselves against humans, which is a real possibility when you think about it.
		Because when they abducted people before, they usually left them with the kids.
		The kids grew up and did wonderful things, and everybody was thriving and prospering.
		That's almost always the case, by the way.
		So I can't think why they would be doing the kind of really ugly stuff they're doing, and it's only one group.
		And it's not ritual.
		There's nothing sacred about it.
		It's just ugly.
		I don't know why they're doing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would be the motivation in mating with human beings to produce creatures that are part human and part something else?
unidentified		I think it's a kind of a, but for one reason, for one thing, people fall in love or get horny.
unidentified		And this is just a consequence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, they just like earth chicks.
unidentified		Exactly, and vice versa.
		You know, what happens?
		And so, and then there's this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a straightforward answer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, when you think about it, it's as good as any answer if they're really here.
unidentified		Why not?
		There's the deer women who are the onyant sonsi, and I think the onyant sonsi are very much like the greys, and they hang out in Oklahoma and all the whole south.
		And the deer women come to these stomp dances, and they seduce men.
		And off the men go with them, and then frequently all that's ever found is the guy's skeleton.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I guess when you saw the skull, it was also the eyes that got to you, huh?
unidentified		There's something about those eyes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Something about those eyes.
		All right, hold on, Doctor.
		We'll be back to you and Lloyd Pye in a moment.
		I couldn't resist splitted, elongated eyes, horny eyes.
		That's right.
		Cantation eyes.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 25th, 2000.
		But she let me down every time.
		Can't make her mind.
		She's no one loved the life with me.
		She'll be so inviting.
		I want her all for myself.
		Temptation eyes.
		Looking through my mind, my mind.
		Oh, temptation eyes.
		You've got to love me.
		You've got to love me tonight.
		You've got to love me, baby, yeah.
		I want her all for myself.
		Oh, temptation eyes.
		Looking through my mind, my mind.
		Oh, temptation eyes.
		You've got to love me.
		You've got to love me tonight.
		You've got to love me, baby, yeah.
		Oh, temptation eyes.
		You've got to love me, baby, yeah.
		You've got to love me, baby.
		You've got to love me, baby, yeah.
		You've got to love me, baby.
		You've got to love me, baby, yeah.
		You've got to love me, baby.
		You've got to love me, baby.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks, tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 25th, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell.
		And Lloyd Pye is here.
		We're talking about something called the Star Child.
		There's Physical Evidence, a Skull.
		And right now, we've got Dr. Paula Gunn Allen with us, who knows about such things.
		We'll get right back to it.
unidentified		We'll get right back.
		Last night or last week, did you know that all the guest information and show information is available online at www.coastocoastam.com.
		Our webmaster, Lex, has posted everything right down to the bumper music.
		Also on the website is a service called Streamlink.
		Man, is this great.
		For about 15 cents a day, you can have access to live streaming audio no matter where you are as long as you're close to a computer.
		You'll also get archived shows from the last 90 days, and you can hear the show on your computer anytime you wish.
		Plus, you'll have access to my Tuesday night chats.
		That's once a month.
		So get the inside story on the show and the inside story on what's going on with Coast to Coast AM.
		You simply log on to CoastToCoastAM.com.
		That's coasttocoastam.com, and you'll be glad you did.
		Streamlink.
		It's a great service.
		It's private.
		You even get a private email address directly to me.
		So just log on to coast2coastam.com and read all about it.
		You're listening to ArcBell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 25, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coast to Coast AM Tomorrow night, in the second hour, we're going to have what we call Disclosure 2000.
		Is this the year?
		Question mark.
		And joining us will be Stephen Bassett, the only UFO lobbyist in Washington, D.C. Peter Gerston, the only UFO attorney in the world, probably.
		Richard C. Hoagland, who you know very well by now, if you're even a casual listener to this program.
		And presidential candidate Heather Ann Harter.
		All tomorrow night.
		The following night, Major Ed Dames is going to be here.
		I text Ed Dames.
		And by the way, I need to get a message to Ed Dames, Ed, if you're out there.
		And I know you are somewhere, somebody will get it to you.
		Somebody sent me a fact which I found poignant and an interesting project for Ed.
		And I tried to get a hold of him earlier and did not.
		I got caught in his voicemail hell.
		But the message simply says, please, Art, ask Ed James to attempt to remote you to the resurrection of Jesus.
		And I thought that a particularly interesting project, the resurrection of Jesus.
		Not if Jesus the man walked the earth because he has done that, I believe.
		And the answer was clearly yes.
		Somebody named Jesus did in fact live.
		But the resurrection would be a very unusual event in the timeline, as Mr. Cright, I'm sure we call it.
		In the timeline, the resurrection would be a stand-up, up out-of-the-noise kind of event, wouldn't it?
		Because we don't have a lot of people who have died popping back to life.
		Actually, we don't have any.
		Not after three days.
unidentified		That's for Doggon Shore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So to remote view the resurrection, I think would be a very interesting project.
		And if anybody can email it or let him know that we're interested in that project along with everything else, we're going to, and he's got some NASA stuff, too.
		We're going to cover that on Thursday night, Friday morning.
		Right now, we have Dr. Paula Gunn Allen and, of course, Lloyd Pye, and we are discussing what we call, what Lloyd calls, the Starchild.
		Welcome back, both of you.
		Thank you.
		Lloyd, you brought Dr. Allen on for an obvious reason this morning, and I don't know that I've gotten to the core of everything that you wanted to get from Dr. Allen, so why don't you ask her whatever you would like?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, the whole point of bringing her on was to show that these stories of aliens coming down to Earth and impregnating human females to produce hybrid offspring is endemic to all cultures in the world and all times that we're aware of, stretching way back into history.
		And she's a scholar of that body of knowledge who was willing to come forward and express that to your audience so that they would understand that it's not just me saying that.
		It's a true and well-known phenomenon.
		It's just well-known within a tight group of scholars.
		It isn't common knowledge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not acknowledged certainly by the mainstream archaeologists in the world or those who have any recorded paperwork of any kind.
		I mean, this is sort of myth, but it's myth that's everywhere, and that's the inexplicable part of it.
		In other words, how can it be in Egypt, in Asia, in Europe, in Africa, in America?
		How can we have the same myth?
		How could we possibly all have the same myth unless there was something to it?
		Right.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		And having the reality of the myth emphasized in the way that we're trying to do it, I would think, lends support to the idea that what we might have is actually the skull of a true hybrid, of a hybrid of one of these unions that are talked about and talked about and talked about, again, throughout history in all cultures.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		And here we have the possibility of true, genuine evidence of that occurring.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's what hit you, Dr. Allen, when you saw those photographs.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Yes, because, I mean, it's like one time I was in a New Age bookstore, and there was a book called The Hollow Earth, and it was about Admiral Byrd's expedition under the earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know the book, yes.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And I'd been grown up being told that our people came from under the earth.
		And for some reason, because I've been educated in the Western world, of course, I always had the idea that that might be some kind of metaphor.
		Until I saw the title of that book, and then it dawned on me they were being absolutely straightforward.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Literal, about it.
unidentified		Literal.
		We came from down there.
		And why we were under there, I don't know, but I do know why we came up.
		It was time because the earth, you know, had reformed.
		And so it was time to come back up to the surface.
		And it was that same kind of sensation when I saw what Lloyd had to offer.
		It was, oh my gosh, there they are.
		You know, it's like you know it, but because we're Westerners, it's always nice to have a piece of physical evidence.
		It just, I don't know, somehow it opens things better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Physical evidence makes a whole lot of difference, and you can be sure there are a lot of people right now popping on their computers to go take a look, including a lot of professionals who will render up some sort of opinion, I am sure.
		No doubt.
		Well, okay.
		Doctor, anything else about your studies as it relates to star children or the whole concept of star children that you want to pass on?
unidentified		The one thing I wanted to say to Lloyd earlier was that with the larger brain capacity of these people, and to you for that matter, I think that explains one of the odd things about them, that they can get pretty invisible.
		And I'm not sure if it's that they can disappear or if it's because they can mind control us into not seeing them.
		If a hypnotist can keep you from seeing the candy bar or keep you from seeing a chair, he just tells you that you can't see it and you can't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe it's even more fully blown like the Matrix.
unidentified		Exactly.
		Oh, yes.
		You saw that, did you?
		Oh, sure.
		That was like seeing reality, wasn't it?
		It could be something like that.
		But the thing is, we don't have any idea what that much brain power, more than we have, could enable us to do.
		But physics gives us a pretty good hit.
		And you have some great people on your show that if you put together some of what they're saying with this skull and what Lloyd and the surgeon is saying, you begin why.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's definitely not possible.
		Yeah, I had Michio Kaku, Dr. Kaku, just last week.
		And he's a big advocate of string theory and as a matter of fact, co-author of the String Theory.
unidentified		That's it.
unidentified		You're following me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And of multi-dimensionality.
unidentified		Yep, and so I think that's what they do.
		And certainly our so-called legends, they're not legends, they're our oral tradition.
		They tell us a lot about this.
		I've written about it.
		I've got a couple books that focus on the oddity of the way the world works from a native point of view because we interface continually with these beings.
		And that's very hard to convey to modern people because modern people are raised not to notice that.
		Although actually it happens to us all the time.
		We just don't talk about it to each other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, there's a lot of things we don't talk about to each other.
		All right.
		Well then, Doctor, I want to thank you for coming and joining us tonight and passing all of this on.
		Do you, you're author of a book or not?
unidentified		I've got a number of books out.
		The couple that people who have been listening would be interested in, one is called Grandmothers of the Light.
		And it's got a number of these star-being or star husband or star children stories in it that I found all over the North American continent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we now have a link to your website on my website.
unidentified		Okay, now, and that one and the Off the Reservation, those two would have the most information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Off the Reservation?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And that's the newest book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that separate from your website?
unidentified		No, they're listed on my website or they can only be gotten at amazon.com or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, thank you so very, very much for coming on tonight and passing all this on to us.
unidentified		Okay, thanks.
unidentified		Thanks, Archer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You take care of it.
		There, folks, is Dr. Paula Gunn-Allen.
		And she confirms that these stories, call them myth, if you like, and I suppose they grow to be thought of as myth, are very common all over the world.
		Now, what I would like to do is answer a few telephone lines and let people ask you questions, Lloyd, if you're up for it.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what else to do except to say everybody's going to say, Lloyd, that you should take the next step with regard to the genetic testing.
		And everybody's going to want that.
		And without making a direct appeal to the audience, which I don't think would be a good idea for money.
		You're looking for a private sponsor of some sort?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, actually, to tell you the truth, we are looking for contributions, small contributions from individuals rather than from a large entity or one person.
		Because, again, by taking the commercialization out of it, by making it just a people project, which is what we've tried to do from the beginning, we take away the ability of critics to say that if any one person put up a lot of money into it, that that person would then have motivation for in some way altering the results or in some way shifting the results so that it puts money in their pockets.
		If we have a number of just small contributions from ordinary people, it takes away the ability of critics to say that about what we're doing.
		So we've tried to put it on that basis from the very beginning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But don't you have to, when you do that, form some sort of non-profit project?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		We have all that.
unidentified		Oh, you do.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		We've done all that.
		Yeah, we have the Starchile Project, and we have the Truth Seeker through the Truth Seeker Foundation.
		We have an 800 number, we have a box number, and I've been promoting that for quite some time.
		And it is fully, legitimately nonprofit, so it's no problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You give out then go ahead and give out the name.
unidentified		Sure.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Anybody that would like to contribute, it's to the Starchile Project, care of the Truth Seeker Foundation.
		There's an 1-800 number, 1-800-551-5328.
		Or you can just send a contribution, however small, whatever size, to Box 28550-28550, San Diego, California, 92198.
		So that would be a check made out, or any donation, no cash, please, check to the Starchild Project, take care of the Truth Seeker Foundation, box 28550-28550, San Diego, 92198.
		Or you can call 1-800-551-5328.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I know a bunch of people with a lot of money.
		$20,000 on the one hand is a lot of money.
		On the other hand, not.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've been thinking that for a long time, Mart, and it just hasn't manifested.
unidentified		So, I've got more power to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What I'm saying is, if a single individual approaches you who is willing to sponsor this to be done, the final genetic testing, if they examine this, and I would expect they would want to, and consider there to be a strong enough possibility to justify spending that kind of money to confirm this, you wouldn't mind?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		No, I wouldn't mind.
		We would certainly have to look at who it is, what their motivation is, and make sure that we wouldn't be setting ourselves up for some trouble down the road with that particular.
		Like, for example, if John Gotti were to call from jail and say that he was going to arrange it, we would have to take a second look at that, if you see what I mean.
		But we are definitely looking for the funding that we need to get it done.
		We know that's what we need.
		We know that's what everybody wants.
		It's what we want.
		It's what we all want.
		It's what we want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, so what if it's John Gotti?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, because again, when you're in the middle of the moment.
		Let's just say, let's for a moment say that the answer is positive, that this thing turns out or looks to be, or we announce that it is not entirely human.
		Now, if we are sponsored by someone who is standing to gain a huge amount of money from this announcement, then suddenly the critics are going to say, oh, well, you can't believe that answer because, look, this guy's making a fortune because he got the answer he paid for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but we're talking now about science.
		We're talking about repeatable, testable science.
		We're talking about an in-depth genetic examination.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're right.
		And the answer would be that the other side could just say somehow everyone was bought off.
		It's not true.
		We're going to get that no matter what.
		We need to cut down on the ability of the other side to make a case that will stick against us.
		You see what I mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I see what you mean.
		Of course, I see exactly what you mean.
		Let's see what's on the phones.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Lloyd Pye and Art Bell.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		Hello, Lloyd.
		Pleasure speaking with the two of you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		My name is Calvin.
		I'm calling from Los Angeles.
		Right.
		All right, and I've been following this avidly with some interest, although I'm a doctoral student in chemistry.
		All right.
		And I'm having trouble reconciling two pieces of evidence that you guys have given.
		Okay, the first hand, if we accept the hypothesis about how the skull superficially resembles a gray, and then we have the evidence of Whitley Striever and such people about these individuals being not of terrestrial origin or being extraterrestrial.
		When you couple that fact with the fact that Lloyd said that the preliminary genetic analysis showed that it was a male, I believe he said it was?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Male, yes.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		I have trouble accepting that hypothesis that something of extraterrestrial origin would show actual DNA of a kind familiar to us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now wait a minute, Color.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If this being, whatever you want to call it, was half human and half something else, why would you not expect to see at least half human genetic structure?
unidentified		Well, because uh well, if if you study your genetics, you know, interspecies breeding doesn't work.
		So therefore you have to be extremely closely related for a successful union to occur.
		Now, all life on earth shares common genetic heritage because according to the current theory of evolution, we all descended from one primordial whatever it was.
		That life on earth was a random, anomalous genetic accident if you take the purely scientific point of view.
		That's why we all share some sort of common genetic heritage.
		I find it difficult to accept that something that came from another planet, an extraterrestrial origin, would show identifiable DNA.
		That's the only difficulty I'm having.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, once again, though, please bear with me when I say, why would it surprise you to find a common genetic structure if it's half human?
unidentified		Because if the genetic if interspecies breeding doesn't work, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, close interspecies breeding does work.
unidentified		Well, close interspecies.
unidentified		But I guess that's what I'm saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Since you're unfamiliar with the structure, the genetic structure of this being, X, we'll call it, the hypothesis said mated with a human being, how can you know it's not close?
unidentified		Well, I'm not saying it's impossible.
unidentified		I'm just saying that's the one big difficulty I'm having.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the one big hurdle I have to accept this.
		All right, thank you.
		You seem to be presupposing it's not human at all or has any part of human in it.
		We'll be right back.
		I'm Art Bell, and my guest is Lloyd Pine.
		If you have questions, that's what we're here for.
		Pick up the telephone.
		Call us.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 25th, 2000.
		Everybody is looking for something.
		Some of them want to use you.
		Some of them want to get used by you.
		Some of them want to abuse you.
		Some of them want to be of you Oh, oh, oh Sweet teams are made of these who are mine to disagree.
		Travel the world and the clever seed.
		Everybody's looking for something Oh, yeah, yeah Oh, yeah, yeah
		I don't care where I go when I breathe.
		When I cry, you don't cry.
		I know you.
		You're with me.
		I'm in you.
		You're with me.
		That you gave me the love Something that I never had Yeah Cause you give me love that I never had.
		You and I don't forget we make love.
		I can't feel anymore that I'm singing.
		Yeah, I'm in you.
		You're in me.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 25th, 2000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We will spend another segment with Lloyd Pie talking about the Starchild or whatever it is.
		If you want to take a look, do so.
		It's on my website now at www.artbell.com.
		Lloyd Pie also has a website.
		We have a link there.
		And when it's a little quieter tomorrow, say, you'll have a better chance of getting in.
		In the meantime, if you want to see the photographs we're talking about, they're on my website and we've got enough bandwidth, so go take a look.
		It's pretty odd.
		I don't know how you can sit there and look at that and believe that it's human or ever was human and only has a slight resemblance to anything that might be human.
		It definitely should be looked at.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Thank you.
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		Now we take you back to the night of January 25, 2000, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art Bell, Somewhere in Time All right, why don't I come right out and make a suggestion?
		First, a question.
		Lloyd, are you there?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lloyd, here's kind of an interesting fact, and it simply asks, do you have any photographs of the mother's skull?
jordan maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, the human skull.
		Now, whether that's the mother or not, but yeah, we have the website.
		There are plenty of shots of that as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have there been any determinations made about that skull?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, do we know whether it was male or female?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it was female, and it was, you know, obviously clearly human.
		And from its features, it looks to have been Amerindian, so, you know, a native of the Americas.
		So it's, in every way, seems to be perfectly normal, except that it's small.
		It's a small skull, as a female of that era would have been, perhaps.
		And it was cradleboarded in its youth, which is also very common, meaning it was strapped to a board and carried on its mother's back, giving it a very flat rear head in not the way that the star child is flat, a completely different way.
		When you see the human skull, you're looking at true cradleboarding.
		When you look at the star child, you're looking at something that is way beyond cradleboarding.
		It's impossible to have been cradleboarding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know what NIDS is?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do?
		Yes.
		It's for discovery science, and it's funded by Bob Bigelow, who's got money.
		Right.
		NIDS is particularly interested in physical evidence, Lloyd.
		Have you approached them or have they approached you?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		No, I have not approached them.
		They have not approached me.
		Again, with the policy that we've tried to keep to of trying to stay away from organizations like that who can, well, again, there might be the overtone that they are manipulating or would manipulate the data.
		If they're going to put that much money into it, they may be willing to put more money into it to manipulate the data.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't know that to be true.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		It may be.
		I'm not saying that it's not.
		I'm not saying anything, and I'm not casting aspersions on them at all.
		I'm just saying that when I look at what the critics are going to do to us, I'm trying to avert that as much as possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but NIDS is a very legitimate upscale organization that provides scientists in scientific inquiry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I can't understand why you would turn up your nose at that.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, I'm not turning my nose up at it.
		When I decided when we were talking to owners and I about the policy we were going to follow with this, this was the policy that came out.
		And I would certainly have to clear any connection to NIDS or anyone else with them.
		And if you want to try to arrange something, I'll be happy to do that.
		But they have not been, nor any organization like that, has not been at the head of our list of people we wanted to contact about this.
		We were hoping to make it, and we are still hoping to make it, a people's project and have it be funded by the people, for the people.
		They're the ones that I think will benefit by a positive result, if we get a positive result.
		And I think the results will be a lot less questionable if they're just done out of the pockets of ordinary people.
		That's been our philosophy from the beginning.
		And if the owners want to change now, certainly we've had a difficult time.
		I've had a difficult time keeping to that.
		And as much as I'm moving off the project, maybe it will be taken in a different direction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
		Hold it.
		You're moving off the project?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		I'm moving off the project as caretaker, yes.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Ted Robinson, who you talked to, and a fellow named Chad Deakton, who is a friend of ours in Vancouver, are going to be taking over my role as the caretaker and as the individual in charge of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's big news.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why are you doing that?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, I just financially can't bear up under it anymore.
		As I've said, set this up so there would be no money lining anybody's pockets, and that includes mine.
		And so I'm basically in financial stress now, and I have to go get off the project so that morally I'll be in position to be able to start making money again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
		All right.
		Yes, I know.
		I mean, the last time you were on my show, there was no skull.
		Last time I interviewed you, now I understand you did do an interview of some sort with Hilly Rose, but I didn't hear that.
		Right.
		Last time I interviewed you, we were talking about Your book.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		And I stopped all of that when I took on the Starchild, and I've tried to do this as upfront and as honestly and as straightforwardly as I could.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		That's a straight enough answer.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Lloyd Pye.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is John in Encino, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, John.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		Can I make a quick weather comment?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		I just find it amazing that with all the things that are going on, the most important issue on the news seems to be where this six-year-old belongs in Florida or Cuba.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, not here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't hear me chatting much about that.
unidentified		No, fortunately, you've written your book, which is just astounding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my book.
		Yes.
		The weather, yes.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Now, on this matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, look, every now and then, let me take a second out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Our society seems to decide that it wants some kind of story like the six-year-old boy or like the baby that falls down the well or something which, you know, is dramatic and interesting to tell and maybe entertaining, but of somewhat questionable hard news value compared, that is, to what else is out there.
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I don't know why we do that, but we do it.
unidentified		Entertainment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who knows?
unidentified		I don't know.
		Well, anyway, I saw something about this skull about a week ago or so on television.
		I can't remember what station or anything.
		And it took me back to a program I saw back in the 70s, which was called In Search of and hosted by Leonard Namoy.
		And the episode I'm thinking of was called In Search of Ancient Astronauts.
		And it really related directly to the ancient Mayan and Aztec civilizations with the etchings in the earth that are only visible from outer space, things like that.
		And when I heard this, it makes me think that, you know, something like interbreeding or whatever, a hybrid, is entirely possible and maybe probable.
		And maybe this is something that was missing that now has turned up.
		And oddly or interestingly enough, it turns up in Mexico or Central America, wherever it comes from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe not so surprising.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of that ancient astronaut stuff was in South America.
unidentified		Right.
		And there's one thing that came up that I've never heard about again that I found most interesting.
		And there's one thing that I'm surprised the woman from UCLA didn't bring up.
		That's about Quetzalcoatl.
		Do you know anything about Quetzalcoatl?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lloyd?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Well, that he was the god of the Aztecs.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		And as far as I know, it was the Aztecs, right?
unidentified		I believe it was the Aztecs.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		The Aztecs.
		White god, bearded, supposedly stayed with the people for a certain length of time, taught them everything, left, said he'd come back.
		And so that when Cortez arrived, they assumed it was him.
		And so that's how that small band of men could come in and conquer that great nation, because they assumed he was their God returning.
unidentified		And there was also a very detailed carving in stone that depicted, and it didn't look, it didn't have the gray body, you know, the head or anything like that.
		It looked like an Indian descendancy.
		But he was in a spaceship, or in a spacesuit, excuse me.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		That's the Maya, the carving on the sarcophagus.
unidentified		Yes, and he's operating some type of craft or something with gauges and dials and things that there's no way they would have any of this back then or even where would it come from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, your point is very well taken, Caller.
		There is a lot of that, and it's simply inexplicable.
		I mean, they are depicting things that could not have existed at that time.
		Period.
		That's all there is to it.
		East of the Rockies, you're on here with Lloyd Pye and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		Yeah, this is Steve from Windsor, Ontario, Canada, and I'm actually a first-time caller.
		Lucky to make it through on this line, I guess.
		Yes.
		The question that I have to ask is something that I asked Dr. David Jacobs and never really got an answer from him in a letter that I sent regarding an alien abductions that I feel that my family's been going through.
		This question here is regarding Pergerian children.
		Now, as we all know, these Pergerian children, they don't really have 100% clue yet as to what is causing Pergeria in these children.
		And I've had this sort of a crazy hypothesis in my own head going around that because they age so fast, because the aliens, when they travel in these machines of theirs, their say life slows down, sort of, because as they attain the speed of light, things slow down.
		Now, what if we were they say they were using their genetics?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Their lives slow down from our perspective.
		Yes, exactly.
		In literal time, their lives do not slow down.
		But they would go out and come back, and we would be very old or dead, and they would still appear not to have aged.
unidentified		Yes, right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		So possibly that, you know, maybe their genes reflect that.
		I mean, this is just my thought.
		But if they were fooling around, you know, putting these children into these women and they forgot one behind.
		Just say they just accidentally lost track of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just say.
unidentified		Could these Progerian children be the left behind?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's as good a theory as anybody.
unidentified		Lloyd.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		I don't really think so, because Progeria is a genetic defect that's pretty well known.
		For those who don't know what it is, it's the disease that afflicts children and makes them age very rapidly.
		And they all have a very distinct look about themselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Very easy to see a progeria child.
		But the problem there is they occur in, as far as I know, in all races across the broad spectrum of humanity, always have and perhaps always will.
		It is a fundamental genetic flaw in our gene pool and we have many like that and I don't think it was one that got loose and just put a few Progeria children in their area.
		It would have had to be when humanity was first getting started.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then in fact, not a very likely scenario.
unidentified		Not a scenario.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Lloyd Pye.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello there, Art.
		Hello, Lloyd.
		A couple things here.
		About an hour ago, you asked the question, that is Art, you asked the question to either Lloyd or perhaps one of your callers, I'm not sure, what the difference would be 900 years back biologically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, that's right, yes.
unidentified		And his answer, I believe, was practically none.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		And the fact is, 900 years ago, the average height was about 5 feet tall, as a lot of the 13th, 14th century armor and clothing would reflect.
		And so evolutionary changes can happen very rapidly with regard to changes in diet and environmental changes.
		I'm not saying this to refute the possibility that this skull is of some alien origin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand what you're saying, and I think it is true that as recently as 900 years ago, the average height was less.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And also, it was mentioned that the Neanderthal brain was the same as ours.
		In fact, they were larger than ours, by quite a bit, by maybe 10%.
		So just a note to subject you to this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		He's right in that.
		And when Ted said that, I think he meant just in general terms about the same.
		I don't think he said specifically the same.
		They averaged about 1,500 cubic centimeters, Neanderthals did, and we average 1,400 cubic centimeters today as well.
		So those are the averages.
		And indeed, the Starchild has a 1,600 cubic centimeter brain capacity.
		So it is, as he said, 200 cubic centimeters larger than average human species.
unidentified		Also, a couple callers back, a gentleman asked about the presence of DNA in this specimen and how could that possibly exist if it was alien.
		And my answer to that is simply, what if they are our progenitors?
		You know, what if we are descended from those aliens?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		That is exactly what I believe and talk about in my book.
		So yes, that would have been my answer.
		And also his question presupposed that these hybrids are the result of sexual union, and it's, I think, very unlikely that that's the case, even though there are many stories of actual sexual intercourse between aliens and human women, I think, in producing the offspring.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that flies in the taste, of course, of what your second guest said, Lloyd.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		No, what I'm saying is it could, though there are many, many reports of that, yes, of sexual union, and some do indeed produce hybrids, but others could be produced by in vitro, by manipulation, by genetic manipulation, because many stories about grays, many stories about grays, and there are other kinds of aliens, understand?
unidentified		Sure.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		But in talking about grays, many, many stories say that there are no outward genitalia to be seen, whether male or female.
		Now, if that's the case, then they're probably going to have some other kind of reproductive means.
		And so to produce a hybrid with us, it would almost, I believe, almost have to be done in vitro in a lab where the female egg is taken, it is manipulated in some way, the gray sperm would be inserted, and then you would have a hybrid from that, and then that would be reinserted, exactly like we do in vitro fertilization now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We are woefully out of time.
		Lloyd, give out your information again.
		I know you're seeking donations.
		You formed a, what, some sort of tax-free?
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Non-profit, exactly, nonprofit.
		It's the Starchild Project.
		Anybody wants to contribute to the Starchild Project?
		Care of the Truth Seeker Foundation, box 28550, San Diego, California, 92198.
		And there's a 1-800 number, 800-551-5328.
		Any donation would be appreciated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what are you going to do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to write another book?
unidentified		Absolutely.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Going to get to work on number two, Origins of Life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, for all the research you've done and all you've done with it so far, we thank you, Lloyd, and we'll be following you and the skull.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, Art.
lloyd pye ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, my friend.
		All right, that's Lloyd Pine.
		I'm Art Bell.

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