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Jan. 25, 2000 - Art Bell
02:54:06
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Star Child Skull - Lloyd Pye - Peter Davenport - Matt Moneymaker
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Time Text
Welcome to Arkbell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from January 25th, 2000.
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and or good morning, wherever you may be across this great land of ours.
From the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands in the west, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S.
Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to Poland, all the way around the world on the Internet, this Is Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Art Bell.
Good evening, or good morning.
We've got a lot to do, so I'm going to get right to it.
Lloyd Pye in the next hour, along with some confirmation of what Mr. Pye has found.
At this hour, what we're going to do this hour, is going to relate to what happens next hour, in a loose kind of way.
But I think you'll see why we're doing what we're doing.
In a moment comes Peter Davenport from the National UFO Recording Center in Seattle.
And we've got a witness who just saw Bigfoot.
And this witness doesn't have a telephone.
So we've had to make special arrangements and this witness is outside right now.
We're going to Are we going to hold up on his name, because I don't think we want to use it, nor his location.
And we'll get all that from Peter Davenport.
In addition, we have an expert on Bigfoot.
I'll line it up very quickly.
Mr. Matthew Moneymaker, how's that for a name, is trained as an attorney, currently working in the field of internet e-commerce law, founder and curator of the Bigfoot Field Research Organization, or BFRO.
So all of that's sitting on hold while we get done what we're going to do and we'll be right back with it.
So again, Bigfoot has been seen.
We'll see what happens.
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Now we take you back to the night of January 25th, 2000, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Just one more quick thing before we dive in.
We've got the most remarkable thing on my website.
You remember the phone outage out here?
You remember the sprint Report of the phone outage on the FCC page?
Well, guess what?
Sprint wrote a letter to the FCC asking them to remove the letter from their website.
And we've got a copy of that Sprint letter.
Unbelievable.
It's on my website right now.
This will blow your mind.
You've got to read it.
You've just got to read it.
You know, it gets deeper.
And deeper and deeper.
And so we've got the sprint letter up there.
Oh my, what's going on?
All right, we've got to get this going right away.
Here from Washington State is Peter Davenport of the National UFO Reporting Center.
And things are hopping.
It's not always a UFO that gets reported.
Sometimes it's something like Bigfoot.
Hi, Peter.
Hi, Art.
And thanks for having us on tonight.
That's certainly the case.
I feel somewhat like a fish out of water tonight, but when you run a hotline and you deal with the public, you've got to be prepared for anything.
It's kind of like doing a radio show of this kind.
Be ready for anything.
That's right.
I know we have two guests on the line tonight.
I'm anxious to get to them.
I'm particularly concerned about the young man who walked to a paid telephone to do this program tonight, and I hope the listeners appreciate what he has done for us.
In a nutshell, yesterday afternoon, Monday afternoon, we got a call at the National UFO Reporting Center from a very, very credible and shaken-sounding young man who reported to me that at about 3.30 or so yesterday morning, Monday morning, he walked out of his rural home in southeastern Washington State Just to get a couple sticks of firewood for his stove.
All right, we're not going to identify his name.
We're not going to say the exact town he's in, right?
That would be my choice, and I suspect he feels the same way.
All right, we'll ask him that.
Anyway, here he is on his way to his stove.
He's on his way to his wood pile.
He got no further than the front porch of his house, and to his amazement, There was an object standing, looking through his picture window, that caused him to react so violently that my understanding is he threw himself back through that front door, quickly slammed the door, locked it, locked all the doors and windows.
Fortunately, whatever was there, and I'm going to let him tell that story, was gone by the time he mustered the courage to look back out through his picture window.
Well, I like his story already, because that's what I would have done.
If I encountered what I think I'm about to hear, I'd slam the damn door, too.
He doesn't have a phone, so he's out in the middle of the cold right now to tell us his story.
Here he is.
Let's bring him on the air.
Hello there, Mr. Witness.
Howdy, Art.
Howdy.
Do you want to give your first name or any name?
Just be Mr. X, or what do you want to do?
Yeah, that's fine.
I'll just be anonymous.
Why don't we call you Mr. X so we can call you something?
About how old are you, Mr. X?
I'm 35.
Uh-huh.
And you live in eastern Washington someplace or another?
Yeah.
Okay.
Little town.
I live on the edge of town.
Little town.
You live in a place without a telephone?
Yes.
So you're... What are you doing up there?
I mean, why are you all so by yourself up there?
Oh, this is...
Actually, I haven't lived in a town before this little town here.
I've lived up in the mountains most of my life.
So you're an outdoor person?
Yeah.
And somewhat of a loner?
Yeah.
Gotcha.
Alright, so you went out to get some... It's pretty cold up there, isn't it?
Yeah.
What's the temperature running like?
I don't know.
It's right down to freezing right now.
You can hear it in your voice.
I know you're outside.
So you went out to get some wood for your stove, something that you must do every single day, I'm sure, when it's cold like this.
Yeah.
Wood-burning stove?
Yeah, every time my wood burns, I've got to go out and get a few more pieces, you know?
Yes, I do know.
All right, so what's outside your door?
Is it in the woods?
What kind of area are you in?
More desert region.
Closer to desert than woods?
Yes.
Alright.
I sure know about the desert.
Anyway, so you open your door and you go out to get some wood and what do you see?
Well, I was going to get my wood underneath from a fir tree.
I had some wood stacked there because the fir tree kept it from getting wet.
It was real wet snow coming down at the time and I have Two doors and I walked out my doors and I stepped off my sidewalk to turn to go towards my tree to get wood and right there underneath this tree on the other side of my wood pile was what looked to me like a Bigfoot.
Doing what?
Standing?
Yeah, he was standing there, had his arms down to his sides and he was looking through Window and in inside that window there. I got some plants
growing on a table with the light on them It's really easy to see in there, and he was looking
through your window, uh-huh So you were looking them back at the house I?
Was looking down the side of the house down the side of the house all right?
His right side. I oh my god, so you walked out the front door and down looking down the side of my way
I was 20 feet away From where he was
Alright, how big was this?
creature My guess is he was about 7 foot 2 inches tall.
I figure he was about a foot taller than I am.
You're about 6?
A little over 6?
6'2", yeah.
And he had to be at least 7'2"?
Yeah.
Alright.
Human features?
the air of the call you can look you look dumb but like a big eight you know
Hair?
i think there was probably twenty four inches long It was beautiful, beautiful hair.
It was a grayish brown color.
I haven't seen that color on another animal in the wild.
Right.
Was it exactly like an ape that we would see in the zoo or were there differences?
The hair was longer.
Probably he was a little more filled out than an ape, I would say.
Maybe he looked that way because of his hair, though.
He was kind of bushy.
Face like an ape?
I didn't get a good look at his face.
I was looking at him from the side.
Was it fairly dark out?
The light shining through the window there put some light on.
I was just kind of in shock.
I couldn't move.
It was night time, it was 3.30 in the morning around there.
Did this creature make any, did it startle when it realized you were looking at it?
It didn't even see me, Art.
I stood there, I was just kind of in shock.
I couldn't move, I was looking at him and then I just, I got kind of scared I guess.
Fear of the unknown or whatever.
And I jumped back in through my first door and I slammed it and I went in the other door and I slammed it and I sat down on the couch and I was just shaking.
And how long did that last?
Probably about an hour and a half.
Would this creature have been able to see you sitting on the couch?
Would it have a view of where you were sitting?
No, it didn't.
What room was it looking into?
It was looking into my dining room.
Into your dining room?
Did you go look out that window at all?
No.
I wouldn't have either.
I have two dogs, Art, and they were laying there on the floor asleep.
Oh, that's great for a guard dog, huh?
They lay by the wood stove, you know, and previous to this, three nights, three times, The one that don't bark and his hair stood up and it was pacing around and the other one, it barks and it got really ferocious.
He'll do that when a skunk comes around, but he was worse.
I thought he was going to jump through the window.
I made him lay down and I'd go outside and look and I couldn't smell a skunk and I didn't see anything.
That was going to be my next question.
Did you smell anything unusual?
No, but I don't have much sense of smell, either.
Peter Davenport recommended that I tell my neighbors for safety reasons, and when I told them, they said that their dogs had been acting crazy, too, in the middle of the night like that.
Oh, really?
So, you've had lots of time to think about it now, and I'm sure you've been thinking about not much else.
Are you sure of what you saw?
Yeah, I'm real sure, Art.
When you finally did get up after being in shock, it was gone?
Yeah.
Were there footprints outside?
No, the area underneath the fir tree is all covered with pine needles, and around that outside of the pine needles is crab grass, and it was kind of beat down from the snow and the rain that we've been having.
You can walk right through there and turn around and look right behind you and you can't tell any tracks or anything's walked through there, you know?
well any idea
uh... guesses uh... anything else about this creature anything else
that you notice that you can tell us that would help us well not that i can think of art
Thank you.
It was standing up totally erect.
Yeah.
I saw a special the other day on, I don't know what it was, you know, one of the science channels.
And there is an ape that stands on two feet and walks on two feet.
And they haven't been able to figure it out, but it does that.
And other than that, apes don't do that.
They don't do that.
You saw something pretty weird.
Do you think it's going to come back?
Well, I sure hope not.
Last night, I was pretty shook up last night because I was worried about him coming back, you know?
That's why I asked you that, because I would be worried about exactly the same thing.
In other words, what if he does come back?
I don't panic like I did this time.
I've got my camera ready now, and I'd sure try not to panic.
I've never seen anything like that before, and it just really shocked me.
Well, have you ever seen that commercial running on television?
Do you have TV?
No, I don't.
You don't have TV.
You probably haven't seen it.
It's a joke.
It's where this lady is being confronted with this giant black bear.
And there's this guy giving advice, and he says, you know, if all else fails, listen to me very quietly, don't move, walk up to the bear very quietly, and box both his ears.
Bad, bad advice.
And I'm not telling you what to do, but I would be disinclined to pop off a flashbulb, for example, in front of a creature like that, but you do what you need to do.
Well, I always thought before if I ever run into one, you know, I'd try and communicate with it somehow.
Something like that, but I was just shaking so bad and everything.
I just really panicked.
Well, listen to me.
That's what I would have done.
I'd have panicked big time.
Your story makes all the sense in the world to me.
Peter, anything you want to add?
Well, I asked our Mr. Witness yesterday whether he had a weapon that would allow him to stop an animal of that size if he had to, hoping he wouldn't, of course.
And one thing our witness pointed out to me is that he was trembling so badly that even though he's skilled in handling weapons, he thinks he wouldn't have been able to use the weapon.
That's part of the reason I thought this was a very good case and that the listeners of Coast to Coast would like to hear about this case.
Would you have shot that thing, sir?
Well, I sure wouldn't want to have shot it.
The only way I would have done that is if I was sure that it was going to harm me.
When I went back in, I have a little handgun and I'll tell you it felt real darn small.
I wanted to go get a bigger weapon, but I was afraid to walk past my dining room window.
Unless you get it just right, small caliber weapons would make something that big angry.
I think it did take a pretty good sized round to bring something like that down.
But nevertheless, did you sit with it?
Did I sit with what?
Yeah, with your gun.
Oh yeah, it was right there beside me.
I was just waiting for something to crash through the door or the window, you know?
Well see, you did, I hate to say it, but exactly what I would have done.
I would have panicked.
I would not have confronted the animal.
I might have thought about a camera, but I'm not so sure I'd have had the guts to do it.
You really did exactly what I would have done.
I want to thank you for coming out in the middle of the night, in the cold, to tell
this story, when I know you really didn't want to tell it at all in the first place
anyway, did you?
No, I really didn't.
I'm not going to be bragging about this to my friends and stuff, that's for sure.
Huh.
I appreciate your coming on the program, sir, and if more of you would do what you have done, maybe we'd get to the bottom of what all's going on out there.
Thanks so much.
Thank you, Art.
All right, good night, Mr. X, who doesn't want to be known, nor does he want to know... want it known, rather.
Where he is, specifically.
He doesn't want any notoriety.
And you just heard what he ran into.
So, as always, with this program, assimilate what you heard.
Make judgments.
Do whatever you want to do.
But there it is.
I think that was a very credible report.
And I thank Peter for bringing it here.
In a moment, we've got an expert on Bigfoot.
And Peter Davenport, right back here.
I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 25th, 2000.
This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast AMX-3.
A very old friend came by today Cause he was telling everyone in town Of the love that he'd just found And Marie's the name of his latest flame He talked and talked and I heard him say That she had the longest, blackest hair, the prettiest green eyes anywhere, and reads the name of his latest flame.
I wish him luck and then he said it's fine.
He was gone but still his words kept returning.
What else was there for me to do but cry?
Would you believe that yesterday this girl was in my arms and swore...
You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 25th.
Tell you what, you be honest with yourself.
What would you have done in that man's position?
Anything really different?
Would you have been brave?
Would you have walked up to this creature and talked to it?
Well, you may be telling yourself that, but I wouldn't have done it, and I doubt many of you would either.
So I found his reactions to be right on the money.
Will we save the world or destroy it with biochemicals?
And who are the Anunnaki?
And why did they come here from the Bureau?
It's all in the September issue of the After Dark Newsletter, the official monthly publication of Coast to Coast AM.
Call now, lines are open, 1-888-727-5505.
That's 1-888-727-5505.
It's $39.95 for 12 monthly issues, plus one free one.
That's 1-888-727-5505.
It's $39.95 for 12 monthly issues, plus one free one.
Or go online, coasttocoastam.com.
You never know what you'll hear on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
Give me an overview of your perception of the occult.
We know that so much of real important information has been hidden purposely because the people in power always consider that kind of knowledge on a need-to-know basis.
And you don't need to know.
All you need to do is do what you've always done, just watch the ball games and be entertained and watch television.
You don't need to do any thinking and start questioning the powers that be.
They don't want us to drink.
No, no.
America has been purposely dumbed down and kept ignorant because that just leaves the people at the top a lot of free room to do anything they want.
I think that we have some extraordinarily powerful people who are not interested in money or power.
They are after our very souls.
Period.
Now we take you back to the night of January 25th, 2000, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Now there it is by direct order.
All right, once again we have the story we just heard from Witness X about Bigfoot.
Make of it what you will.
Peter Davenport remains on the line with us, and now Peter brings us an expert in Bigfoot.
As a matter of fact, I guess he's a representative of the Bigfoot Field Research No, I'm not related to Alan Greenspan.
it his name is matthew moneymaker which is a really cool name from uh... orange county california
and are you about you uh... are you uh...
you're not you're not related alan greenspan or anything that that you are you there with yet to hear me i hear you
are you're not related to mister greenspan right
now i i'm not related alan greenspan i i wish i could say i was but how do you
get a name like that it's actually an old uh... german name
It was Geldmacher, and it was translated into Moneymaker, huh?
It actually meant Coinmaker.
Coinmaker.
Originally, and it should have been translated Coinmaker.
It would have saved me from a lot of guff throughout my life.
Yeah, I bet.
Alright, so somehow or another you have come to be head of this organization called Bigfoot Field Research Organization, right?
Correct.
How did that happen, and when?
Well, I founded the organization back in 1995 and pulled in the best and most active field researchers and scientists who are concerned with this subject and concerned that it's not being documented adequately.
So we set up an organization to do that and to coordinate field activities where there seemed to be good potential to get documentation.
Have you seen a Bigfoot yourself?
I knew you were going to ask that question.
Actually, it's kind of policy.
It's going to sound like I'm dodging this, but I have to say no comment there, because when you investigate sightings, you don't want to put your own credibility at issue.
But I have very good reason to believe that this is a worthwhile pursuit.
Well, let me put it this way.
I can't imagine your beginning an organization of that sort without real serious motivation, and the only place you could get motivation, in my opinion, of that strength is to have seen something yourself.
Well, you're a very smart guy.
Very perceptive.
All right.
You heard Witness X here a few minutes ago, a simple guy, simple life.
A remote location, doesn't even have television, not interested really in any sort of 15 minutes of fame.
You heard what he just described, what do you think he saw?
Well, we go through a process to try and determine which scenarios are the most likely in a given case.
In this case obviously we have a few to choose from.
One, that he didn't see anything.
Or, I mean, he saw something that was his own imagination.
Or, two, he saw something that was not a Bigfoot, but gave him a good impression of being one.
What is it that does that, by the way?
Usually, it's bears or people.
But usually, they're usually in less favorable conditions than the one that he was in when he had his sighting.
In other words, usually They're further away, or they happen out of the corner of someone's eye, or they see it very briefly.
Well, that seemed a very clear view, if I heard him correctly.
For the instant it occurred, it was very good, and in the light and close.
It did, and that's what leads me to think that it probably wasn't a misidentification, and that it seems unlikely, let's say, That it would be anything other than exactly what he was describing.
And with the organization you have, what conclusions, if any, have you actually come to conclusions about Bigfoot, about what this animal is that we have so many sightings of?
Do you have anything to offer?
What do you think it is?
Well, we believe the evidence points in a particular direction, and that direction is that it's a the same species or descendant of a species that was known
to exist and thought to be completely extinct and The thought is that this particular species or this line of
primates never became completely extinct but Settled back into a very scattered nomadic lifestyle
Do you believe this is a creature that is somewhere in the?
lineage of Caveman to modern man or that it is completely a separate
Or is that too much to ask?
Well, we think from looking from being involved in this for many years and speaking with a lot of witnesses, many of which were very, very close range looking, you know, full frontally at these things.
Yes, broad daylight.
Yes.
The witnesses Indicated something that had the posture of an upright walking primate, like a human.
In other words, if you were to look at it from a great distance, you would think you were looking at literally a hair-covered person.
Right.
But the ones who were closer said it would have looked like a person from a distance, but they could just see in its face that this was not a human.
And it wasn't really a gorilla, but it Neither was it a human.
It was obviously some kind of primate species that walks upright and therefore cuts the form of primates that would learn to walk upright.
And so we think it is a separate species and not in the lineage of man.
And there's other peripheral reasons for that.
One being that the lineage of man, they behaved very consistently.
They lived in groups.
They were pack hunters.
They had fire.
This thing, if it operated like any of the known characters in our lineage, we would probably have more contact with it.
It's a really good point.
It's a really good point.
Are you convinced that such a creature in modern day, today, with helicopters and airplanes and communication and travel and could remain essentially unseen other than these
you know treasured little incidences that that we haven't that we can talk about and the limited amount of
evidence that exists could a creature this big really remain out of sight as
well as it does most of the time absolutely no question whatsoever because
are you have to understand
even if we have all that technology it has absolutely no
bearing on this phenomena unless that technology is being directed toward
finding you know which it never ever it That's a good point.
For obvious reasons.
One of the things people ask us about, they say, what about with these high-tech satellites that the military uses and can see the license plates?
We hear that constantly.
Sure.
Well, you know, there's not a gazillion of these satellites around.
They're a multi-billion dollar satellite.
Nor are they looking for mammals.
Exactly.
They've got better things to do, at least in their opinion.
National security.
And that's just with the satellites.
But then you have the helicopters and all the things.
The systems that are on helicopters that could be employed are $100,000 F.L.E.A.R.
systems that are typically found on our military choppers.
Police helicopters are occasionally a news chopper across the country, but they can be a hard sell trying to convince a police agency to use their very expensive helicopters to go out looking for a Bigfoot.
Well, let me give you an example.
For example, in Alaska, I was invited by the National Guard there to go for a ride of Blackhawk.
And in the Blackhawk, they've got A heat signature kind of radar, it's the damnedest thing you ever saw, it can look down on an area, and if there is a heat signature above ambient temperature, it will produce an actual picture of what it is.
Human, it doesn't matter, airplane, whatever would, you know, it kind of paints a picture based on the temperature differential.
They have that ability in Blackhawk because I sat there and played with it.
I know.
So they would see something, but they might well regard it as a bear or something, or perhaps even a person.
But search and rescue is usually in Alaska or the Yukon looking in very desolate areas where if there is a person out there at risk of their lives because it's like 70 below zero or something like that.
Um, so you might imagine a few reports like that, of course, you might imagine they don't report that kind of thing, too.
Well, let me ask you, does the agencies that have that, that would employ them for search and rescue, do they, do you think they just go out looking and see if they can find people who may need help, or they respond?
No, no, normally they would, for example, somebody would call and say, oh my God, my husband is overdue, he was in a small plane, or he was out camping, And he was supposed to be in touch by now.
Search and rescue.
You know, here's the job.
Go out and find the person.
Here's where we think they might be.
That kind of thing.
Right.
You're saying in the course of that, should we expect that they're going to see a Bigfoot?
Yeah.
It could be, but you have to understand in that situation, if they see something on the ground, they get closer to it.
Usually somebody who wants to be rescued is going to be waving their arms.
Absolutely.
And that's pretty reliable, and that's what they're looking for.
And if something, you know, looks up, turns and runs away, then no matter what they conclude it is, they will pretty quickly conclude that that's not what they're there to do, to investigate something else that may be out there and seemingly trying to hide from them or just ambivalent to them.
Is it your feeling, Mr. Moneymaker, I love that name, well I love it, that this is a A real creature in our dimension, or that there is some additional paranormal explanation for the comings and goings that seem so inexplicable otherwise?
That's also another frequent question, and it's one that we address this way.
The BFRO gets hundreds of reports every year.
Peter Davenport probably has a similar experience, but most of them you can write off, because a lot of them are pranks or hoaxes, and we have a pretty good system for screening those and figuring out which ones are apparently credible.
Even if we take the whole bunch of them, even with the ones that we've made a determiner fake, we have yet to receive one.
uh...
talked about characteristics of behavior
that would indicate any kind of you know paranormal abilities
there are people are normal investigators of course i know a few of them
uh... will talk about story
they've heard this story about story indian system that and you know we very aggressively more aggressively than
anyone investigate reports that we think are credible and not based on a
minute in other words if your report we're talking about that kind of phenomena we
exercise due diligence try and find out if there's subject to those as well cold and open that possibility
But whenever we try and get to the bottom of these, those rare ones that the paranormal investigators, you know, the paranormalists, tend to hear about, You can never, ever get back to the actual source of those reports.
In other words, they're always second, third, fourth-hand reports.
You go back, you try and get back to that source, some point along the line, you get to somebody and say, well, you know, I heard it from a friend, and he moved out of the area, or, you know, the guy isn't available.
How many of them, percentage-wise, don't fall in those categories?
How many of them fall into the, oh God, this looks like the real thing category?
That 99.99% of them fall into the category of not, of having no interdimensional characteristics and have much more of just a biological entity.
Alright, that answers the question.
Peter?
And see, that's relevant in that when we contrast that with all the rest of that 99.99% we're very often able to get to the actual eyewitnesses.
And, you know, we have to take that into consideration.
The very few to begin with that might mention interdimensional paranormal behavior, we can't get to the witness.
I mean, in the normal course of doing what's described as biological behavior, we would write those off.
So, the evidence doesn't stack in that direction.
All right.
All right.
Peter?
Yeah, I'm delighted to have a specialist on tonight in Mr. Moneymaker.
Because I know very little about Bigfoot.
I'm interested in the subject, but I've learned a lot from what he's had to say here.
But a couple things didn't come out from our witness that I'd like to add just very briefly here, if I may.
In the course of attempting to contact him today, which was a bit of a challenge because he doesn't have a telephone out there in southeastern Washington, I talked to the first person who I believe the witness spoke to yesterday after he'd had his sighting.
Who was it?
He walked into town.
He's a public official.
Okay.
And I explained to him I was trying to reach our witness and he knew him well and said he could help and was very helpful in fact.
But we talked about the witness and he said the official reported to me this afternoon that he knew the moment he laid eyes on the witness yesterday morning after the incident that there was something wrong with him.
uh... something wrong in the sense that he had experienced a shock trauma look
different trauma he acted different no i understand this trauma
and uh... yeah some kind of because some kind of trauma and uh... interesting the witnesses comments about how for
years and years he told himself if he ever saw one of these things by golly
he wouldn't run etcetera etcetera
That's exactly what I've told myself for years.
Right, well we all have those plans.
You know, if a UFO hovers, we're going to immediately run and get the camera.
It doesn't work that way.
You hang there with your mouth open.
That's right.
From this gentleman's description of what he saw yesterday morning, I would have been back through that door much faster than he was.
And even yesterday afternoon when I talked to him, when he was indoors in a warm area as opposed to out of doors and freezing to death as he was tonight, I could hear in his voice pauses and a certain tremulo that suggested to me that he was still experiencing Perhaps a mild form of shock, which is one of the things you always look for in an investigation is telltale signs that the person is giving you, other than just the verbal account of what he allegedly had seen.
All right.
Peter, never enough time.
Never enough time.
From the National UFO Reporting Center, you've been listening to Peter Davenport.
They operate on donations up there, folks.
I want to give the address very quickly.
A few bucks if you can.
It'd be great if it helped.
P.O.
Box 45623 University Station.
That's two words, actually.
University Station, Seattle, Washington.
Zip code 98145.
And as for you, Mr. Moneymaker, I think you and I probably ought to do a whole program sometime.
Are you up for something like that?
Absolutely.
All right, then I will arrange to have you on separately, and I will thank Peter Davenport, as always, for all of this and for finding these gentlemen.
Thank you, Peter.
Thank you, Art.
It's been fun.
Would I be able to give the web address for the BFRO?
Sure.
It's www.bfro.net, and if you have anything to add to this subject out of sighting, we're the place to report it.
All right.
Done deal.
We'll be talking to you and Peter again, as always.
Thank you.
Thank you, Art.
Good night.
Well, there was something out there, that's for sure, folks.
But that's it for now.
I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
you're listening to arkbell somewhere in time tonight featuring a replay of coast
to coast am from january 25th 2000 so
so me
is is
is is
is premier radio networks presents arkbell somewhere in time
Tonight's program originally aired January 25th, 2000.
Ah, you can tell I'm still stuck on this song, can't you?
I am.
Good morning, everybody.
I'm Art Bell, and in the last hour, we heard a very straightforward explanation from a fellow who lives up in the wilds of eastern Washington.
Who came within 20 feet direct contact with a Bigfoot.
Looked him right in the face.
This animal, this creature, this whatever was looking right in his window.
He went into kind of a state of shock as you would fully expect he would.
We had a report from him as well as a report from a Bigfoot expert and of course Peter Davenport here from the UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, Washington as well now.
That is going to kind of fit in With what we're about to do, I'm going to have Lloyd Pye on.
Lloyd Pye is an author who's written a book called Everything You Know Is Wrong, which is kind of an interesting book title all by itself.
Everything You Know Is Wrong.
And I guess we can talk a little bit about that book.
We'll have the time.
But Lloyd has made a discovery that may relate to what we were just talking about.
That is to say, a creature living with us on this earth That has been here and continues to be here now, but somehow, for the most part, stays out of sight.
I don't know.
Anyway, it'll be fun to get his reaction to that first hour.
So coming up in a moment is Lloyd Pye.
I really want to call your attention to something that just blows me away.
You remember the power outage we had here?
And then there was a sprint report, an official report, filed with the Federal Communications Commission in which, you may recall, it referenced the power outage that occurred here in the Brum Valley and military area 51.
And it got posted on a government site.
I followed it.
Why?
Because it was a power outage that affected me here in Brum, took out the whole valley.
And so we found this government website, and here it is, and it says Area 51 on it.
It says Area 51 right there.
There were other oddities about the outage, you know, it said that the breaker was turned off, not tripped, but turned off.
So I called attention to that, because it was on a government site.
And now, now Sprint has written a letter to the FCC, Interestingly, asking to have the report taken off the FCC
website.
It says, let's see, further investigation by Sprint LTD has determined that the level of service degradation does not
meet current reporting requirements as established in the FCC docket 91.273.
So we've got the sprint letter up there on the website.
of the Commission's rules to provide for a notification of common carrier service disruption.
Based on this determination, SPRINT Ltd. requested that the December 22, 1999 report for Las
Vegas, Nevada be withdrawn.
So we've got the SPRINT letter up there on the website.
So now you can see all of it.
This is, you know, it just gets thicker and thicker and thicker.
And so now they want to withdraw the whole report.
By the way, the Federal Communications Commission has not done that.
They've removed some names, I understand, but they haven't withdrawn the report.
This is pretty weird stuff.
Pretty, pretty weird stuff.
I live in a pretty weird place.
Lloyd Pye's coming on.
He, too, is pretty weird.
He'll be here shortly.
Will we save the world or destroy it with biochemicals?
Who were the Anunnaki and why did they come from Nibiru?
The answers to these questions and so much more are all in the September issue of the After Dark Newsletter.
It's the official monthly publication of Coast to Coast AM and it's everything you love about this show printed in four colors and delivered to you or someone you care about for only $39.95 a year.
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Here's what you missed on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
People continue to push for this disclosure, but it never seems to come.
Did they know at any particular time that we didn't have control over it?
Or did they know that there was going to come a time when we were going to know things and they needed to get us accustomed to it?
People have always speculated there's going to be a big announcement.
I think that the change is gradual and it's happening every day.
Now we take you back to the night of January 25th, 2000, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
The others are also here right now.
I'm one of them.
I'm Art Bell, hi.
And here's Lloyd Pye, and again Lloyd has written a book called Everything He Knows Wrong, but that's not what the show is about tonight, although it's a good book.
Lloyd, welcome back.
Thank you, Art.
I'm so glad to be back.
Okay, I had you on, of course, as a guest before, talking about your book, which I really like, Everything He Knows Wrong, and since that time, a lot's happened to you.
You stumbled into something, I guess, didn't you?
Right, I sure did.
What did you stumble into?
Well, because of the book and the attention that it brought, some people who were the owners of a skull, a very special skull, contacted me and asked if they could have a meeting with me.
They wanted to show it to me.
They were of the opinion that it might be not entirely human, and they wanted some verification from somebody who would know a little bit more about it than they did.
Because of my book, as you know, it deals a lot with both bones and genetics, and so that was the two things that were pretty much required to find out what the skull really was.
So they showed it to me, and as soon as I laid eyes on it, I was absolutely enthralled, particularly with the eye sockets, which is what I saw first.
My father was an optometrist.
I know what eyes are about.
I know what eyes are supposed to look like.
And I knew that these were absolutely unearthly items.
Okay, let me stop you before we even get any further.
Sure.
It was a group of people who came to you?
Several?
How many?
It was a meeting, the owners and some friends of theirs, and we had a meeting, believe it or not, in the lobby of a motel that I was staying in on one of my speaking venues.
Oh, that's fine.
And we just pulled it out right out there in the lab.
Alright, one obvious question is, questions would be, where did they get Skull?
Well, the skull had been given to them by a gentleman who had received it from the woman who found it.
It goes back a ways.
60 to 70 years ago, a woman who was at the time a teenager was taken to Mexico about 100 miles southwest of Chihuahua by her family.
They were all American citizens, but they went to visit the old home folks at the old homestead, which was a small village in a mountainous kind of area.
They took her there to visit.
The first thing they tell her when she hits the ground is, do not go into the caves and the mine tunnels in this area.
That's taboo.
We don't go there.
How old was she?
15, 16, 17.
So that's exactly where you go.
Exactly where the age you are when you are told not to do something, you're going to do it.
So she snuck away as soon as she could.
And in a mine tunnel, she said, And we can assume she would know the difference between a mine tunnel and a cave.
Well, a mine tunnel is, you know, it's got supports.
It's probably got supports.
Well, it's just cored out.
You know, it's a tube rather than just all over the place like a cave is.
Yeah, right.
She said, mine tunnel, we have to assume she knows what she was, she knew what she was talking about.
At the rear of that mine tunnel, she said, she found a human skeleton lying on its back, you know, facing up.
It was just there, the bones were there, and beside it was, she noticed a hand coming up out of the soil beside it.
And the hand, that was all, was wrapped around one of the upper arm bones of the skeleton lying on the ground.
Of course, this intrigued her, but it also frightened her.
What?
Now, wait a minute.
Skeleton on the ground, back of the cave, hand coming up from below the ground with its curled up around the arm of the skeleton.
Yes, of course.
Is she still alive?
No, no.
She's dead.
So anyway, she peels the dirt.
She gathers her courage and she peels the dirt off the hand to see where the hand's coming from.
And she finds a misshapen body.
Not just a misshapen hand, but a misshapen body.
It was much smaller than the one lying on the ground, which itself was a small body.
We've calculated it would have been about five feet tall.
And then of course it had a very misshapen head.
So she recovered all the bones in a basket, she had told them apparently, as she was going
out to pick fruit or berries or something.
So she had a large basket.
So she got all, not just the skull, but all the bones.
She got all the bones, put them in the basket, but she knew she had done something terribly
wrong but you felt compelled to keep them.
So she hid them behind a tree near the home where she was staying in the hopes that she'd figure out a way of what to do after she could get up the nerve to talk to somebody about it.
A couple days later, a torrential rainstorm came and just drowned everything.
A couple days later, she went back to see if anything was left, and nothing was.
Everything had been washed away.
You mean all the bones were washed away?
All the bones were gone, but she went looking and she found the two skulls minus the lower jaws.
Your lower jaw is not attached to your skull.
Your mandible is not attached by anything.
The mandibles were gone, but she did find the two skulls.
She took those back, snuck them into her baggage, told no one, and snuck them back into the She immigrated to the U.S.?
didn't tell anybody but just kept them her whole life she she immigrated to the
u s though she was a very u s citizen i guess i said come in as i understand it
you know illegally and then they had become legal in her mid-haul only
national legal then they went back the first problem i have with this is that
if you had a bag of bones and i was an entire human beings bones
right there basket you know there'd be a lot of people who would want to ask
you questions at least in this country
Well, we're 100 miles southwest of Chihuahua, Mexico, 60 to 70 years ago, in a small rural village where there's nobody seeing her.
Nobody knows what she's doing.
And she brought these bones back through customs.
No, no, no, no.
Two skulls.
Two skulls.
Even two skulls.
She brought through customs.
Right.
Well, apparently customs was not as thorough then as they are today, and apparently she just put them in with the laundry and got them through somehow.
They certainly didn't have scanners like they have now.
It would have had to have been done by hand.
The family comes through, the little girl's got her bag, you know, you can assume they just waved everybody through.
I don't know what to tell you, Art.
This is the story we have.
I'm with you.
You have to go with it.
So she sneaks them back in, she keeps them her whole life, and as she's nearing death, she asks an American friend of hers, a man, and he will take the skulls for her and just keep them for whatever reason.
And he says yes, he would.
Well, his wife apparently did not like having a cardboard box with two skulls in the garage, so she asked him to get rid of them.
So he found a younger couple that were UFO knowledgeable, showed the skulls to them, and they felt like that skull looked like it would fit in the head of a gray.
And so they said, this is terrific, this is amazing.
And he said, would you like them?
And they said, yes, absolutely, we'll take care of them.
That's an amazing story.
Now I understand fully the woman's feeling about the skulls.
Most women wouldn't want skulls hanging around.
I ended up with it.
That's an amazing story.
It's still a property, but I became the caretaker.
Now I understand fully the woman's feeling about the skulls.
Most women wouldn't want skulls hanging around.
And so I understand the chain of custody here, how this all occurred and how they got them
and why they came to you.
And so now you have one or two skulls.
Two skulls.
Two?
The human one that was lying on the surface of the ground, and the skull that was buried in the ground.
Ah.
Minus the mandibles.
Alright.
What can we discern, what do we know now, about the skull of the, for lack of a better name, we'll call it the Grey right now.
Well, we call it the star child because we think that it was a child number one.
There's a detached piece of mandible, a maxilla rather, that goes with it.
Maxilla being the upper jaw, the upper right jaw.
It had two baby teeth, what appear to be baby teeth attached in it and furthermore in the upper bone that's there.
We x-rayed it and found that it had secondary teeth up in there ready to come down.
So we have assumed that it was a child and so we have called it the star child.
In looking at the shape of the head, it has all of the physical features one would imagine would go in a gray.
Now you, I'm sure, are aware of all of the differing accounts that we have of grays.
There are as many as four or five or six different types.
Yeah, but common in almost all the greys are the slotted, slitted eyes.
Right.
Those are the common features, exactly.
In other words, it's like hominoids, like in your first hour, you get a wide range of tales about them.
Their heights are different, their weights are sizes, but they have these consistently the same characteristics and that's how it is with greys, whether it's tall ones, short ones.
You're telling me that this skull has that?
to have the very strange eyes, the very small lower mouth and jaw area.
You're telling me that this skull has that?
It has all of these things that I'm about to tell you.
The large heart-shaped upper head, the very flat slanting downward sharply rear head,
the neck shifted down forward from where our neck is, and the neck being much smaller,
more pipes to me than our neck is.
Where can I see a photograph of this?
You can go to www.startchildproject.com.
Hold it, that's a lot.
Do we have a link on our page right now?
Yes, startchildproject.com to anybody who doesn't have it.
www.starchildproject.com.
And when you go there, anybody that does, click your cursor on any of the photographs and what you'll get is an immediate full screen blow up.
And if you scroll down to the three skulls that sit above the x-rays, when you see the x-rays, the three skulls that are sitting above the x-rays, Click on those, any of those skulls, and you'll get a side-by-side comparison between the human and the star child.
And there you can see, I think, the best view of the startling differences between the two.
All right.
You know, the website we've got up is www.lloydpie.com.
Right.
Well, if you then go to my link page, if you Click over to links, and the very first link is going to be the Starchild link.
Alright.
Okay?
And you click into that, and you will just scroll down through the photographs.
Alright.
And if you go to the three skulls of the Starchild, three photographs of the Starchild that sit above the x-rays, and click on either of them, you'll get a side-by-side with the human and the Starchild.
Okay, any other photograph that you hit, you'll get a full screen blow up.
Alright, I'm to the point where I see the skulls and it says click to the site.
So I should do that?
Click to the site, exactly.
Alright, people can perhaps follow along and we can get a more direct link up.
You see the three skulls, you click to the site and now you're on where you'll be able to scroll down through the photographs.
It's now running slow.
Because people have followed along with me, and so now I've screwed myself up, so it'll take a minute to get there.
i can see i can nevertheless see the skull in
front of me right now and uh...
y'all okay let's find out uh... what we think we know about this
uh...
Well, I guess the first thing that I would want to ask about is the apparent age or what they've been able to do.
We'll do that when we get back.
Stay right there.
I'm Art Bell.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 25th, 2000.
This is a song about the people who have lost their homes.
This is my life, taking away, waiting to hear.
Be inside the sand.
I'm a fool of years And it's time to say
Oh, each time you go Be inside, slam, smell, touch the something
Inside that we need so much The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sand, or the strength of an oak when it's deep in the ground.
The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing.
To have all these things in our memories.
I'm the only son to come home.
Take it slow.
On this trip, just for me.
Why, take a free ride?
Take the thrill of a seat in my crib.
the you're listening to work well somewhere in time on premier
radio networks tonight on the floor presentation of coast to coast a m
from january twenty fifth two thousand all right so all those years ago
down in southern mexico we've got this teenage girl
goes into a cave and finds a human skeleton with an arm coming up out of the dirt salt back of the cave
grasping the arm of the human skeleton
The skeleton beneath the dirt is exhumed by this young girl.
The remains of it are brought back and put into a basket.
All the bones.
There's an ensuing flood, rainstorm.
All the bones are washed away except for the skulls.
The human skull and the alien skull.
They make it to this country.
Lloyd Pye gets his hands on them not very long ago.
We're about to find out more about the skull.
Like an idiot, I directed you all to that website to the point where I've killed it.
So, if everybody would please back away from that website, obviously it can't handle the traffic right now.
We'll try and get Keith in, and we'll get copies of the photographs, and we'll post them up on my website during the course of the show, so you can get through.
But we've got to be able to get through ourselves to do that.
So back off, let Keith get some photos, we've got more bandwidth.
We'll get them up for everybody to see.
But right now, I can't move in that zeit.
I can't move in that zeit.
you All right, so we are left with, and yes, I'm notified by Keith that we now have the photograph up adjacent to Lloyd Pye's name, I think.
And so you'll be able to view it there.
We've got enough bandwidth.
His website just went kaboom.
So Lloyd, we've got it up for the masses to see now.
I hope that's all right.
That's fine.
Your website stopped dead.
Well, I can imagine.
You probably have a lot of hits at one time.
We have a lot of hits.
Alright, so we've got, of particular interest, obviously, is not the human skull, but the skull of what you call the star child, what seems to be physically a grey.
It has all of the physical characteristics one would assume a grey would have.
Obviously, you've got to begin testing.
You're going to test for age first, I suppose?
Right.
And you did?
Right.
And?
900 years.
900 years old?
900.
The height of the Aztec Empire.
The cave, excuse me, the tunnel, when we first got this, we just assumed that it would have been within the last 300 years.
The skulls looked pretty good, and when people would look at them, we'd ask them for just an eyeball estimate, experts and specialists, and they'd say 100, 200 years maybe.
So we put it in the time of the Spaniards forcing the natives to dig gold and silver mines.
It made sense.
We get back the report, though, finally, and it's 900 years.
So if, in fact... Hold it, Lloyd.
That report dated it by what means?
Well, we took carbon-14.
Carbon?
All right.
Carbon-14.
That's what I wanted to know.
Carbon-14.
Carbon 14, 900 plus or minus 40.
So what we're looking at is something, a mine tunnel that would have been dug in the period
of the Aztecs when they were mining gold and silver for their gods.
So we were off by quite a bit in our estimate there, but nonetheless, 900 years is the result.
Everybody's gods got gold and silver.
Right.
Those gods did for sure.
Both.
Well, even the early Christians remember the gold.
Yeah, gold is godly, I guess.
Yeah, gods want gold.
All right.
All the way back to the Sumerians with that one.
Really?
Yeah.
All right.
All that makes sense.
Now, obviously, you then go to somebody who knows something about Skulls.
I've got to lead you through this in some way.
I don't know how.
That's fine.
What did you go to?
I took it to a number of different aspects of cranial physiology, asking them what kind of deformity would look like this.
At first, they would tell me, oh, well, it's methydrocephaly with cradle boarding.
I don't know what all that is.
These are all genetic disorders.
I wasn't hearing the same thing from anybody, but I was hearing great assurance from everybody that their opinion was correct.
For the first few weeks, until I was out on a road trip at that time, that I got it.
Until I got back to New Orleans, I was...
Believe that it was unusual had been pretty battered.
They were all telling me, now there's nothing unusual about this.
We see these all the time.
Until I went into medical libraries myself and began to look it up for myself and I found out it wasn't true.
They were not telling me the truth.
Either they were misleading me or they were remembering wrong or whatever was the case.
There was nothing like that in the books that I could find anywhere having to do with deformity.
And there are certain rules of deformity and this thing broke all the rules.
So it didn't strike me anymore that they really knew what they were talking about.
That I had something here that was indeed highly unusual and had never been seen before in terms of a standard genetic type of deformity.
It really didn't have a name.
So, there are two kinds of deformities.
There's genetic and there's congenital.
A congenital deformity is a one-time sperm-egg misconnect, something goes wrong, some kind of tragic developmental mistake.
And in those cases, they almost never survive when they're extensive.
You can survive one thing going wrong with your head.
Possibly two things.
Three things, you're pretty much out of the money.
This thing, every area of it, all eight major areas, all parts of it, nothing is the same as it would be on a human.
And yet it lived.
It shouldn't have lived.
It shouldn't have been kept around in those kinds of societies that long ago when something came out really badly misformed or misshapen.
There was no stigma.
If you were to relate this thing to human ages, was there a way that the experts could tell you what The probable age of this creature would be?
We figured it at about five years old to six years old because of the teeth, the baby teeth, and because the suturing of the head was very good and very complete, so we know that it was well past the age of three.
It just had the look of a five-year-old, although admittedly to those that would look at it, The area between the left rear parietal and the left rear occipital bone, this is the left side of the rear of the head, it has something called islands in there.
These are various little pieces of bone that fill in when an area grows a little too quickly on one side or the other.
Yes.
And these were fairly extensive.
They are very extensive, and so people would look at that and say, this looks like it's been around for a little longer than perhaps five or six years, but the teeth always Held everybody's estimate in the five to six year range.
So, we're still holding with that star child.
Okay.
Next thing is, you would obviously attempt to do some sort of genetic testing.
Right.
Well, this is where the rubber meets the road in something like this.
We have to have genetic testing.
Now, you could make a tremendous case for this thing being not entirely human, just off the physical deformities of the physical Was there recoverable genetic material?
There was indeed, but it was not to the degree that we had hoped for.
There are two kinds of testing at the genetic level.
There is forensic and there is diagnostic.
Forensic is very broad, very general, and much cheaper than is diagnostic.
Forensic is a magnifying glass.
Diagnostic is a look through a microscope.
Much more extensive, much more detailed.
So we, because we have had a terrible time, I personally, I take this as my personal fault, I have been a terrible fundraiser for this, I have not done well at that, and so I did not get the money that we needed to do the diagnostic testing.
How much money do you need to do that?
Well, to do the diagnostic, it would be in the range of $20,000 probably.
To do it right and to do it at the kind of lab level that we would need.
$20,000?
$20,000, yes.
Alright.
We did the forensic and it was about $7,000.
$7,000.
What does forensic testing tell you?
Well, what forensic testing can tell you is things like male, female, just general terms.
Nothing in great detail.
But we were hoping that the forensic testing would give us enough of a lead so that we could then Make a pitch for the money.
What happened was the skull was buried in soil that was very highly acidic.
So it chopped the DNA.
Instead of having nice long strands like the human one had, the human was a female.
The star child turned out to be a male.
Now, the strands, instead of being long and nice and easy to read, They were chopped as if they had been put in a blender by the acid.
Now, the skull itself, the bone is very highly porous.
It's very different from human bone.
It weighs half of what human bone weighs.
If you look at it under a microscope, it's put together a little bit differently.
It weighs half of what human bone weighs?
That skull weighs half of what the human skull weighs, and they're both approximately the same size.
So yes, anyone and their many, I've let literally thousands of people hold the two while I was out on the road talking about it.
And any number of them could call in and tell you that the most startling thing about it is the difference in the weight.
It's like holding a gourd.
It's amazing how different it is.
So anyway, because of that porosity, the acid in the soil was able to leach into the bone at a level that the geneticists had not dealt with.
It also let the oils From the hands of the people that had held it, my own included, leach in a lot farther than they were used to.
But nonetheless, what they recovered was much more chopped up than normal by any degree.
So all they were able to say is that it was male.
The human-specific probe that caught in there was amylogenin, which is one of the most basic ones, only a hundred and something base pairs long.
But in saying that it was male, it told the geneticist that you had to have an X chromosome and a Y chromosome to create a male, because a female would have been two X's.
So an X chromosome and a Y chromosome, he has to say, in his view, that it's human, even though he can't see anything about the chromosome.
He certainly can't see any of its DNA, but as far as he can see and as far as his knowledge base allows him to say, it's human.
The reality of it is he's unable to see down to the level where if this is a hybrid you would see some differences and he acknowledges that.
So what we need to do and what he has said in his official report to me is get diagnostic testing and so that's what we're hoping to do, hoping to raise the money to do the diagnostic testing.
Because this thing has the possibility of being literally the greatest find in human history.
Alright, but is the diagnostic testing going to run into the same problem as the forensic?
In other words, not having whole DNA strands to work with?
And if so, is that going to affect the outcome?
Yes, they will have the same problem.
However, they have more sophisticated recovery techniques.
That's what diagnostic is, you see.
So the best lab in the world for this is run by a man named Svante Paabo and it's in Munich, Germany.
Now Paabo is the man who recovered the 300 some odd strands of, excuse me, base pairs of DNA out of the 30,000 year old Neanderthal, if you remember that from a couple of years ago.
He's also the guy that got the DNA out of Otzi the Iceman that was recovered.
Under the glacier.
So this is the lab in the world for doing this kind of thing.
And if he could be talked into taking this case and doing it, that would be where you would want to go with it.
Have you communicated with him yet?
I have tried to twice, Art.
I've written him two letters and neither one has been returned.
So he's very, very mainstream, obviously.
So it would maybe take some convincing to get him to do it.
But I also, in my letters, explained to him that we didn't have much money and that I was having trouble raising money.
He could have disregarded me for that reason.
I really don't know.
Thank you.
That would get interested enough to front the money.
I don't know.
The Smithsonian... Well, one of the problems that we have with money, with this thing, is we have to be extremely careful not to commercialize it in any way.
Make it sort of a deal where somebody stands to make money.
No, but I mean, if you walk into the front door of the Smithsonian or, I don't know, some other large organization that would have the kind of money... I wouldn't put it in the hands of the Smithsonian, Art.
I don't think I'd ever see it again.
I think it would be disappeared.
I wouldn't trust them with anything.
Frankly, I hate to say that, but there are so many stories out there about them disappearing artifacts that didn't fit the paradigm.
I wouldn't dare do that.
I would really have to go with people that would be more open to doing this thing on an open and above board basis.
I don't think they would do that.
I really don't.
What do you imagine?
I mean, I'm imagining this human skeleton lying horizontally with the arm only of the whatever it is, Starchild, grabbing the human arm and then the body being beneath that.
In what position?
Horizontal?
One would be on the side of the other, as I understand it.
It looks to us very much like either a death and a murder and then suicide.
Impossible to think of any other way that could have happened.
If that's either the mother or a caretaker or something of this child, it dies and then she buries it and kills herself, or she kills it for some reason and then buries it and then kills herself.
By taking a poison or something like that, maybe slitting a wrist, there's no way to know, but it's hard to think of any scenario other than those two possibilities.
A mother taking her deformed child's life and then her own, maybe?
Right.
Or a mother taking the child dying and for whatever reason she would take her own life.
I want to follow with it.
Now if in fact, and we are going to talk later to Dr. Paula Gunn-Allen about these star being
legends, there are a number of legends throughout the Americas of grey alien or alien types
gods coming down into primitive areas and this goes back for hundreds and hundreds of
years, these legends, coming down, picking isolated rural villages like the one apparently
that this one was in and finding women who were generally childless and impregnating
them with these hybrid offspring, allowing them to raise those offspring up to the age
of five or six or seven or eight and then they come back and get them and take them
away to wherever they go.
If that is true, and if that happened in this case, one could imagine one of two scenarios.
The child died under her tutelage, and it's the gods.
It's a child of the gods.
She's responsible for this enormous thing.
They're out picking berries some day.
The kid eats a mushroom and falls over dead.
She says, oh my god, you know, and she just We're way on a hypothetical ledge here.
We've also got a Dr. Ted Robinson coming on here shortly.
Who's he?
fear that the gods are going to do that to her anyway, or perhaps she gets the word that
they're coming in some way to pick up her child, and for whatever reason, she decides
she doesn't want it to go, and she kills it.
Yeah, we're way out on a hypothetical ledge here.
We're way on a hypothetical ledge.
We've also got a Dr. Ted Robinson coming on here shortly.
Who's he?
Dr. Ted Robinson is a craniofacial plastic surgeon in Vancouver, British Columbia, who
really is one of the few open-minded professionals that I ran into in my nearly a year out on
the road with this.
He looked at it, and being a craniofacial plastic surgeon, he knows skulls, if anybody
does, he felt it was absolutely unlike anything he'd ever heard about or seen for sure.
So he did what most of the others did not do.
He went to the books in the same way I did.
As he will tell you, and he found out that it was true, there was nothing like it.
And so he then became a champion of this thing in the Vancouver area.
He got us connected with the DNA lab that did the work for us, ultimately, and he was agreed to... Alright, Lloyd, hold on.
We're coming to a break.
Alright.
What I'm going to do during the break is get Dr. Robinson.
And Paula Gunn-Allen, would I address her as doctor as well?
I think you would, yes.
She's a professor emeritus from UCLA.
Well then I would, Dr. Paula Gunn-Allen.
I'll get these two on the line and we will get their views and their opinions on this skull when we get back.
So the first part of the DNA testing is in, but it's It's non-conclusive.
I'm Art Bell.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 25th, 2000.
25th 2000.
I'm in the fields. I'm lonely. The trees are crumbling.
They are...
I'm in the fields. I'm lonely. The trees are crumbling.
They are...
They don't come easy. No, they don't come easy.
My guest is Lloyd Pye and he has a skull of what may not be a human being.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast
to Coast AM from January 25, 2000.
My guest is Lloyd Pye and he has a skull of what may not be a human being.
That's what we're trying to figure out.
But he's got the skull and we've got a couple of experts coming on.
One in cranial facial characteristics, an expert in that field who has looked at the skull.
And one in the mythology surrounding these stars, so-called star children.
So, all of that coming up directly.
Will we save the world or destroy it with biochemicals?
Who are the Anunnaki and why did they come from Nibiru?
The answers to these questions and so much more are all in the September issue of the After Dark Newsletter.
It's the official monthly publication of Coast to Coast AM and it's everything you love about this show printed in four colors and delivered to you or someone you care about for only $39.95 a year.
Plus you'll get my monthly editorial, quickening news, oddities, and this month's Q&A with none other than resident comparative mythologist William Henry.
It's all in the After Dark newsletter.
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That's 1-888-727-5505.
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Now you can hear Coast to Coast AM.
Here's what you missed on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
People continue to push for this disclosure, but it never seems to come.
Did they know at any particular time that we didn't have control over it?
Or did they know that there was going to come a time when we were going to know things and they needed to get us accustomed to it?
People have always speculated there's going to be a big announcement.
I think that the change is gradual and it's happening every day.
Now we take you back to the night of January 25, 2000, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
All right, Lloyd Pye, once again.
Lloyd, are you there?
Yes.
All right, let us introduce now our first guest, and I've got a couple of them holding But I thought perhaps Dr. Ted Robinson would be appropriate first.
He is a craniofacial expert, a plastic surgeon, I guess.
Is that correct, Doctor?
That's correct.
So you are a craniofacial expert by virtue of the fact that you do plastic surgery?
Well, that's correct, Art.
I have been practicing as a plastic surgeon now, including my training, for 35 years.
And also, I've been a bit of a bug on paleontology and anthropology.
In the year 1968, I taught for a year at the University of London in London, England.
And I worked beside Michael Day, who is a physical anthropologist, who was at that time receiving Richard Leakey's specimens from Lake Rudolph.
And at that time, of course, I became quite fascinated in the whole subject and I've followed it ever since.
Alright, so you're familiar with human evolution.
Yeah, you're obviously very well qualified then to be talking to us about this.
Lloyd came to you at some point with this skull.
Indirectly through a friend of ours, a common friend.
He showed me the photographs and asked me what I thought, and I just said that I had never seen anything like it.
You've never seen anything like it.
Would that include the possibility or even probability of a simple human deformity?
Well, of course.
Human evolution, we've gone through a lot of changes over the last four million years.
And one of the striking things, if you, as an example, I don't know if anyone who's listening has a copy of the August 23, 1999 copy of Time Magazine.
It's quite a good article on how man evolved.
And if you take Australopithecus afarensis, a creature that existed 3.6 million to 2.9 million years ago in Laetoli, Tanzania, The striking thing is the very small brain case and the very large face.
With evolution over the last four million years, what has occurred has been a gradual expansion of the brain case as the brain became larger.
The face has become smaller.
I'm taking Lloyd's words for this because it's a tricky thing to do.
He has measured the brain volume of this particular skull and states that it's 400 cc's larger than a human adult.
Now, in terms of our evolution, 200 cc's increase... Is that a lot?
...constitutes a different species.
A different species?
Yes.
Okay.
Would there be any measurable difference between a human of 900 years ago and a human of today?
Absolutely none.
In fact, for the last 50 to 100,000 years, the only two types of so-called humans that have existed have been the Neanderthal and the Homo sapiens, both of which had a similar brain size.
Although the skull of the Neanderthal was much more robust, very large brows and very heavy bones compared to ours, but the brain size was the same and the face was roughly the same.
Here we have a skull which is very large in terms of the brain size.
Yeah, we've got really good photographs of it.
What we can see of the face is very small.
We have to add that part of the face is missing.
Yeah, although in profile you can see the face and it's an odd one indeed.
It is, and there's so many things about it that, you know, you asked me about human deformities, genetic defects, that sort of thing.
I mean, obviously in Plastic surgery, we see many children who are born with chromosomal abnormalities, hydrocephalus, what is called craniosynostosis, where the suture lines between the different bones fuse prematurely, causing a very odd shape to the skull.
And we know for a fact that none of these conditions fit this particular skull.
You know, people have said, well, if it's got a large brain, it must be hydrocephalus, because what happens with hydrocephalus is the cerebrospinal fluid is produced in the ventricles in the central portion of the brain and can't get out, so it just expands like a balloon and does produce a very large skull, but in the process of doing that, it erodes the inner table of the skull, and we've had now confirmation from no fewer than four radiologists who have seen the CT scans and who have confirmed that there is no erosion of the internal table or the inner table.
So we've definitely ruled out hydrocephalus as an explanation.
And in terms of cranial synostosis, all of the sutures in this particular skull are open and growing.
All of, say that again please, all of these sutures?
Yes, the sutures are the places, they're the actual growth centers Yes.
Between the bones.
Oh, I see.
Which fuse in adulthood.
Yes.
And these are all open.
So, unfused.
Unfused, not an explanation for the deformity.
How many points of difference, when viewing the scholarly photographs, are there?
And does it cause you to say, This is not, or was not, a human skull, or do you lean in that direction?
How strongly do you feel about it?
Well, there are two possibilities here.
I don't want to speculate, although I, off the cuff, may have my own ideas.
The orbits, if you can see them on the photograph, are very shallow compared to a human.
Optic nerve comes through very low, about halfway down the nose, which is very different from human.
Oh, it sure is.
If you look at the skull from the top, and I don't know if you can do that, but the skull is very broad across from one side to the other.
There is what I would call an enormous temporal bossing, which would It suggests to me that this was a highly intelligent creature.
I don't know if you noticed the article, but there's a Canadian pathologist that still has the brain of Einstein, and there was a report recently, I guess it's still being studied, because what they found is that the temporal region is missing a fissure.
The fissure is filled in with brain tissue, and the cerebral cortex of Einstein was 15% Well, I didn't know that.
Yeah, they think that this may be why he was so intelligent when it came to mathematics and spatial concepts.
And this particular skull, even though it is apparently the skull of a five year old, had huge temporal bossing.
It's also very unusually short from front to back.
One of the most striking things Is the flattening, now this is not cradle boarding.
There is flattening at an angle which runs down from the top of the skull towards the foramen magnum which is where the spinal cord comes through.
It's interesting, I belong to a surgical journal club and there was a neurosurgeon giving a talk one night so I just thought I'd throw a little bit of a curveball at him.
And I took the CT scans with me, and he was struck by how unusual the CT scans were.
And I said to him, Andrew, I said, you know, is there room in this skull for a cerebellum?
And he agreed that there didn't appear to be.
I mean, it would seem that this brain must have been wired very differently from a human brain.
Wow.
That sounds like a lot to me.
So there are many, many points.
Many points.
Another point, I don't know if you can see it from the side, the human ear is almost directly back from the orbit.
This one is way, way lower.
Another point is that if you look at the back of the skull, the occiput, there is an area of muscle attachment called the inion.
Um, which, um, holds the head upright.
Our neck muscles are quite strong because most of the weight of the skull is in front of the foramen magnum.
Right.
Um, this child, if you want to call it that, um, has practically no indians, so it suggests... I mean, we can learn a lot from muscle attachments, even though the muscles are no longer there.
And you would have to say that this Well, it's difficult to relate it to anything that I've seen previously.
What kind of feeling are you left with or were you left with when you first began examining
this?
What did you think you were looking at?
Well it's difficult to relate it to anything that I've seen previously.
I cannot rule out the possibility of some as yet and previously unknown genetic abnormality
or it could be some other species.
It's not animal.
I mean, there's no animal that has a brain larger than a human unless you're talking about, you know, an elephant or a whale.
But this is humanoid.
Humanoid.
Humanoid.
But, on balance, so many differences as to not, in your If I'm reading carefully between the lines, and you have to be careful, I understand that, but you obviously are leaning toward the probability it's not human.
Well, I think there's a possibility that it's not completely human.
I'm sitting here looking at a text.
It's called Pediatric Otolaryngology by Cummings and Friedrichsen.
There's a beautiful series of illustrations of skulls at different ages.
One of them is a five-year-old skull, five to six-year-old, and it just absolutely does not look anything like this skull.
Well, that's a very non-trivial thing to say.
In other words, it's like being, you can't be a little bit pregnant.
If it's not quite human, if it's not human, then it's not human.
That's all there is to it.
In other words, not quite human is Not human.
There is that implication.
Oh, I have indeed.
Did you take the CT scans?
Yes, I have them.
You have them.
Did you take them or did someone else?
I've shown them to three radiologists.
I think the radiologist who probably carried the most weight was the head of pediatric neuroradiology at Children's Hospital in Vancouver, and he was clearly struck by how unusual this skull was.
I mean, this guy spends all day every day looking at x-rays of skulls, and he was startled.
If I could interject, Art, the man who took the And what did Dr. Smith think?
Well, that he had never seen anything like it either.
Same thing.
Anyone that knows anything about it from a technical standpoint is going to have that reaction.
They can't have any other reaction because there really is nothing like it.
They really will never have seen anything like it before.
Well, that's an interesting question because the gentleman who did the DNA for us is someone that I've known for a number of years.
He is quite prominent in the world of Forensic pathology, when it comes to DNA for forensic purposes, he's asked to go all over the world to look at murder victims and try and identify who the criminal was who performed the act.
He's a guy that actually, if you saw the movie Gorky Park, where they did Adding the soft tissues to see what the face would look like.
Right.
He's the one that developed that technique.
Now the problem that we have here is that they do that by determining the average depth of tissue over a particular bony prominence.
And we don't know whether this follows the usual formula and one suspects that it might not.
However, you know, Lloyd has He's done some work in that area, and I think he may want to talk about it.
I personally wasn't terribly impressed with some of the work that was done.
Alright.
In other words, you would have to know more about the species in question to be able to accurately... Exactly.
Okay.
So, then, your assessment is that we have something that is either... Lloyd was saying earlier that with X number of points of deformity that you might live with one or two or three, but with the number of deformities present in this case, he didn't think the child would have lived or could have lived.
Now, I want to hold you over for a minute, and when we get back I want to ask you about that, whether, in fact, this creature would not have lived.
Under such circumstances.
So, that's exactly what we'll do when we get back in just a moment, so... Stay right where you are.
Interesting stuff, huh?
The photos on my website, you're going to want to take a look.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 25, 2000.
Music.
Mmm, my Lord.
Mmm, my Lord.
I really want to see you.
Really want to see you, dear.
Really want to see you, Lord.
If you want to see the love that it takes so long my love I see the love
you Mmm, my love.
Mmm, my love.
I really want to know you.
I really want to go with you.
I really want to show you love, but I won't anymore.
Hallelujah.
I can't go.
I really want to know you, I really want to go with you, I really want to show you love, I want to sing for you,
Hallelujah, I sing for you, Hallelujah Music
Oh and it's alright, and it's so damn old, we gotta get right back where we started from, love is good, love can be
strong, we gotta get right back where we started from Music
Do you remember that day when you first came my way?
I said no one should take your place And if you get hurt, if you get hurt
By the little things I say I can just set my back on your face
And it's alright, and it's coming home We gotta get right back to where we started from
We've got Lloyd Pye, who's got a skull, and you're getting the story behind it.
Right now we've got a surgeon on.
Plastic surgeon.
radio networks presents part of the whole somewhere in time tonight's program originally aired january twenty-fifth two
thousand this is a very interesting that we've got a lot of hard to
start a stall and you're getting the story behind it right now we've got a
surgeon on plastic surgeon
cranial facial expert who really sounds like he doesn't think this is human
you can't stay.
He's pretty far out on a limb, really, in a lot of ways, with how much he's said.
We'll get right back to it.
In the future, will we save the world or destroy it with biochemicals?
And who are the Anunnaki?
And why did they come here from the Bureau?
It's all in the September issue of the After Dark Newsletter, the official monthly publication of Coast to Coast AM.
Call now, lines are open, 1-888-727-5505.
That's 1-888-727-5505.
It's $39.95 for 12 monthly issues, plus one free one.
That's 1-888-727-5505.
It's $39.95 for 12 monthly issues plus one free one.
Or go online, coasttocoastam.com.
Here's what you missed on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
People continue to push for this disclosure, but it never seems to come.
Did they know at any particular time that we didn't have control over it?
Or did they know that there was going to come a time when we were going to know things and they needed to get us accustomed to it?
People have always speculated there's going to be a big announcement.
I think that the change is gradual and it's happening every day.
Now we take you back to the night of January 25th, 2000, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
I don't know, what would you do?
If you came into possession of a skull like this, what would you do?
Probably exactly what Lloyd Pye has done.
We have with us a plastic surgeon, Dr. Ted Robinson, who is also a cranial facial expert, which I guess you would have to be to be a plastic surgeon.
And if I've been listening carefully, and I think I have, his view is probably that this doesn't seem particularly human, what this skull.
Now, doctor, we were ticking off points of, for lack of a better phrase, I guess, genetic defect or defect of some sort, and Lloyd was saying that He didn't think that a being with so many defects from human characteristics would have survived.
Any comments?
Well, it's interesting that even in modern culture there are many babies that don't survive.
You only have to go to China where female babies who are perfectly normal very often do not survive.
I believe in the Aztec culture There were certain types of babies that did not survive, notably twins, which were normal, other than being twins.
So it's not difficult to imagine if a child was severely deformed and required a lot of care in a primitive society where food resources were scarce, that this child might not survive, either medically or for other reasons.
All right.
Is there anything else that you would like to add, Doctor?
I don't want to hold you up too long here.
I just want to get your best shot here, your best guess.
You've looked at it.
You're an expert.
I'm not.
Well, there's something that you can't see on the photographs, and that's something that Lloyd made reference to, and that's that the bone is different.
If you have a craniofacial abnormality, the bone itself is normal.
The shape may be abnormal, but the bone is normal.
This bone is incredibly light.
They said it weighs half as much as an equivalent human.
It's like bird bone.
It is so light, you almost don't know you have anything in your hand, and we don't know why that is.
It's also very porous, as Lloyd indicated, which has been, you know, one of the things that has caused us a great deal of frustration with respect to the DNA testing.
But these are characteristics which do not suggest to me that this is an ordinary human skull.
Well, I can't tell you how much I appreciate you coming on the air.
We needed somebody of your sort of authority, and here you are.
Thank you for staying up late with us and telling us all you could.
Well, it's been a pleasure, and I intend to continue working on it.
As Lloyd indicated, we are actively seeking further funding because we don't have the end of the story yet, and I would dearly love to.
Thank you, Doctor.
Thank you.
Take care.
Oh, my.
Well, Lloyd, that's pretty convincing.
I told you he would be, I must say.
That's pretty convincing.
It doesn't sound like you've got a human skull there in your hands.
Well, it's as he said earlier, certainly not entirely human.
One can argue that there's some human in there.
There's certainly a frontal bone.
There's two sphenoids.
There's two temporals.
There's two parietals.
There's an occipital.
The parts are there.
They're just not arranged the way human parts are arranged.
So, totally human parts are arranged.
Yeah, I listened to him very closely, and in every way that he could seem to be Trying to say it, even though he didn't come right out and say it, I definitely got the impression that he feels it was not human.
Yeah, well, he has to speak a lot more elliptically than I do.
I mean, I can tell you there's nothing like that in the books, and those of us that have studied and really looked for it know that.
This is something, you know, another hallmark, no one's mentioned yet, but another hallmark of deformity is asymmetry.
You get lopsidedness.
This thing is astonishingly symmetrical everywhere you look in it.
Particularly in the eye sockets.
Those who would like to say, will some kind of cranial pressure press those eye sockets down like that?
But it's symmetrical on both sides?
Absolutely.
Perfect.
Not just symmetrical.
Astonishingly, stunningly symmetrical.
Okay.
Well, you're beginning to get my vote.
Let's go now to a different aspect of this, and she's been kindly waiting on the line.
Her name is Dr. Paula Gunn Allen, and we're just now getting a link to her website on our website, by the way.
It should be up there now.
Dr. Allen, welcome to the program.
Yeah, hi.
It's been fascinating.
Indeed, fascinating.
Doctor, what is your field of study?
Actually, my degree is in American Studies.
And I guess you could say I'm a sort of archaeologist of old ideas or old religions.
I'm Laguna Pueblo from New Mexico, and then I'm a writer and scholar and so on.
And then one of the main things that I did was teach Native literature, the oral tradition, and the contemporary writing, poetry and fiction.
And in the process of doing that, I had grown up with these what are called star husband stories, at least that's what ethnographers call them.
What are those?
Well, there's a woman or two women, frequently it's sisters, and they are laying around one night and they're looking up at the stars and they go, ooh, you know, those are really handsome men.
And then they'll choose, one will choose one because she thinks he's cute and the other one will choose another.
And then they'll go to sleep and then they'll wake up and the stars That they chose are now standing there and they're in the form of human men and so they'll go off with them.
Then they usually are up in the sky somewhere and then they, the woman or she and her sister depending, one of them has a baby and then that's okay.
There's not a lot of detail so they don't tell you about the conveyance they're in or anything like that but it's some kind of boat.
And it's way up in the sky somewhere.
Well, you know, this almost sounds like the teenage girl's vision of the charming prince.
Doesn't it, Bob?
Yes.
And that story is, of course, an extremely old European legend.
Which, by the way, is one of the weird things about this.
This story, I'm telling you, is in one form or another all over the Americas, north and south.
Not only that, in other forms.
It's in Africa, Asia, Europe, Australia.
And you just can't do that unless we're talking about some kind of fact.
Because they don't come up with the same religions.
They don't come up with the same understanding of the world.
Right.
They don't come up with the same definitions of almost anything.
Why would this story keep showing up?
Of course, story is my field.
That's what I do.
Gotcha.
And anyway, so in this one variant of the story, then she or the sisters both get homesick and decide to come home.
But they can't figure out how to get down.
And then there's some old woman who helps them, and who makes them a small basket, puts them in this basket, and then lowers them.
And then sometimes they come to the ground and they get out and go their way, but sometimes they fall, or the mother and the child fall and are killed, or sometimes the mother is killed, the child lives, and it's interesting what he was talking about, the teeth that are still in the jaw.
Right.
These children often have two sets of teeth, that is to say, two rows.
One row comes in and then later another row comes in.
Okay, these legends then are talking, if I've got this right, about in modern days what we would call an abduction?
Yes.
Impregnation?
Absolutely.
And then the birth of a partial human child?
That's right.
Frequently these children grow much faster than human children will.
And they have all kinds of superpowers.
And frequently they're twin boys.
Uh-huh.
And you find those twins in Maya land.
You find them among the Aztecs.
You find them among my people, the Pueblos.
You find them among the Iroquois, the Algonquin.
People whose languages have nothing in common.
Absolutely nothing in common.
Nevertheless, there are these stories.
You have seen the skull?
No, I have not seen the skull.
You haven't seen the skull?
Now I was web surfing one night and I ran into his website called Star Child.
I was just thrilled because people who do the kind of research Lloyd is doing almost
never know about the star being a star husband.
Have you even seen photographs of the...
There's the photographs on the website.
All right, fine.
They're quite good.
What is your...
When you look at those photographs...
You know one of the interesting things is I know those eyes.
I call those eyes savage eyes.
That's kind of funny, but particularly in the skull, the way they're close set, you
see how kind of long they are?
Yes.
And close set.
Yes.
To me, those, I think of those as Indian eyes.
I know that we're supposed to have slanted eyes like Asians, but actually that's not true.
Most native people have round eyes.
And only a few that live on the west coast up north have those more slanted Siberian type eyes.
Anyway, these eyes, Look like that, and the only other thing I can say is, I look at that picture and I go, oh good lord, of course, it's true.
It's like every time I run into evidence that the old stories are not so-called legends made up by delusional primitives with nothing better to do.
You know, Native people tend to be extremely pragmatic.
And they're almost never trippy.
And so I doubt that they make up anything.
I've never met a fanciful Indian in my life, unless they were also poets.
And so the chances are if there's a story that's held on, it's factual.
Anyway, I'm looking at these and going, there they are.
And I'm not entirely certain some of the explanations Lloyd has given.
He's given because of his background as a Western person.
There's a lot of things in the skull I'm noticing that are much more reasonable explained in terms of our stories.
And you're saying that these stories These abduction, impregnation, birth stories... They're all over Native America.
There's a whole cycle called abduction.
Not just America, though.
No, actually, they're all over the world.
The Japanese emperor is the son of the sun.
He's the son of heaven.
And they believe that he is the son of heaven.
They're not kidding.
When you think of Moses in the boat, so was Osiris and his twin, Seth, by the way.
They were these strange people and they were in a boat because they had been... their mother was trying to hide them.
And I think the idea that the gods who aren't gods, they're these other beings, were going to come take their sons.
And mom didn't want her to lose her sons.
I think that's... Right, okay.
Well, whether you're talking about myths of that long ago, which you are studying, or modern-day abductions... Modern-day abductions.
Does myth and legend tell us anything about motive and or anything else?
As a matter of fact, the majority of our stories, our oral traditions, both the myths, which are sacred stories, and the dances, which I guess you call ceremonies, tell us exactly what our relationships are supposed to be to these beings, who they are, how we interact with them, how they interact with us.
Can you give me a quick 101?
Yeah, the quick one-on-one is we coexist peacefully, we don't bug each other, we treat them with very real respect, and we all coexist.
It's that old Lakota saying, all my relatives, everybody's related to everybody, and one of the main reasons we think that is because we know about these things.
And if you start getting disrespectful, they start getting uppity.
And pretty soon you've got serious problems that you can't do anything about.
Like drought, horrible weather conditions, all the things that you've been talking about and writing about.
And we think those come as a direct consequence of really, really annoying and disrespecting these beings, because they are real people.
They're not human beings, but they're real.
And they're here.
Oh boy, they've been here far longer than we have.
They are so old.
I'm sure they'll be here long after us.
What is their nature that we see them only sporadically in flashes, you know, in the corner of our eyes?
We don't really, we very occasionally get photographs we cannot explain, but we have very little evidence of their presence, save perhaps what we're talking about tonight.
Part of that, what the Mayans were talking about, because they overcame time, they live in more than three dimensions.
And so the physical rules that apply to them are not as limiting as the physical rules that apply to us.
So any mystic, or any ordinary person in a kind of altered state of consciousness will start seeing them very directly.
And I think that's because humanity is ready to make that leap into the next, you know, quantum level of consciousness, and we'll see them a lot more regularly.
Alright, I asked you if there was any... Many people see them all the time, by the way.
Is there, with regard to motive, What motive is there in myth or in whatever that you could tell us about their interaction with us?
Why are they interacting with us?
Largely, they don't unless we ask them to.
And largely, we're very careful about asking them to.
What your question implies is a very Western idea.
As a Westerner, especially as an American, you think there's got to be a reason.
But the reason would better be, what are we doing on their planet?
Because they were here before us.
And then the next question is, why are we interfering with them?
And why don't we let them be?
They mostly let us be, but they don't really, which is one of the reasons why we've got a problem.
The better question is, why do they abduct people?
Well, I did ask that.
I do know the answer.
I don't know the answer.
I do know that I don't particularly trust them.
And I do know that I'm not one of those people, and most Indian people that I know are not.
We don't go around courting them and trying to get them to come talk to us.
Because they are very different.
It's like courting a bear.
But so many of the abductions that we've heard about have not been exactly voluntary.
And I don't know what that's about.
I honestly don't, unless they're trying to defend themselves against humans, which is a real possibility when you think about it.
Because when they abducted people before, they usually left them with the kids.
The kids grew up and did wonderful things and everybody was thriving and prospering.
That's almost always the case, by the way.
So I can't think why they would be doing the kind of really ugly stuff they're doing.
And it's only one group.
And it's not ritual.
There's nothing sacred about it.
It's just ugly.
I don't know why they are doing it.
I think it's a kind of a, but just for one reason, for one thing people fall in love or get horny and then this is just a consequence.
In other words, they just like earth chicks.
Exactly, and vice versa.
You know what happens.
That's a straightforward answer.
Actually, when you think about it, it's as good as any answer, if they're really here.
Why not?
There's the dear women who are the Onion Fancy, and I think the Onion Fancy are very much like the Grace, and they hang out in Oklahoma and all the whole South.
Yes.
And the deer women come to these stomp dances, and they seduce men.
And often men go with them, and then frequently all that's ever found is the guy's skeleton.
But I guess when you saw the skull, it was also the eyes that got to you, huh?
There's something about those eyes.
Something about those eyes.
All right, hold on, Doctor.
We'll be back to you and Lloyd Pye in a moment.
I couldn't resist.
Splitted, elongated eyes.
Horny eyes.
That's right.
Temptation Eyes.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Arkbell, Somewhere in Time.
tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 25th, 2000.
But she lets me down every time, can't make her mine She's no one's lover tonight, with me she'll be so inviting
I want her all for myself, oh temptation eyes Looking through my mind, oh temptation eyes
You've got to love me, got to love me tonight Got to love me baby, yeah
I want her all for myself, oh temptation eyes Looking through my mind, oh temptation eyes
You've got to love me, got to love me tonight Got to love me baby, yeah
Oh well, that isn't just a game We're just the same.
My head is spinning.
She's got a way to keep me on her side.
It's just a ride.
It's never ending tonight with me.
She'll be so exciting.
I want it all for myself.
It's a damn big shine.
Oh, temptation, looking through my, my, my eyes Oh, temptation, you gotta love me, gotta love me tonight
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 25th, 2000.
Good morning, everybody.
I'm Art Bell.
And Lloyd Pye is here.
We're talking about something called the Star Child.
There's physical evidence, a skull.
And right now, we've got Dr. Paula Gunn-Allen with us.
Who knows about such things?
We'll get right back to it.
Last night or last week, did you know that all the guest information and show information is available online at www.coasttocoastam.com.
Our webmaster Lex has posted everything right down to the bumper music.
Also on the website is a service called Streamlink.
Man, is this great.
For about 15 cents a day, you can have access to live streaming audio, no matter where you are, as long as you're close to a computer.
You'll also get archived shows from the last 90 days, and you can hear the show on your computer anytime you wish.
Plus, you'll have access to my Tuesday night chats.
That's once a month.
So get the inside story on the show, and the inside story on what's going on with Coast to Coast AM.
You simply log on to coasttocoastam.com.
That's coasttocoastam.com, and you'll be glad you did.
Streamlink.
It's a great service.
It's private.
You even get a private email address directly to me.
So just log on to coasttocoastam.com and read all about it.
You're listening to ArcBell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 25th, 2000.
Tomorrow night, in the second hour, we're going to have what we call Disclosure 2000.
Is this the year?
Question mark.
And joining us will be Stephen Bassett, the only UFO lobbyist in Washington, D.C.
Peter Gersten, the only UFO attorney in the world, probably.
Richard C. Hoagland, who you know very well by now, if you're even a casual listener to this program.
And Presidential Candidate Heather Ann Harder.
All tomorrow night.
The following night, Major Ed Dames is going to be here.
Scitex Ed Dames.
And by the way, I need to get a message to Ed Dames, Ed, if you're out there.
And I know you are somewhere.
Somebody will get it to you.
Somebody sent me a A fact which I found poignant and an interesting project for Ed, and I tried to get a hold of him earlier and did not.
I got caught in his voicemail hell.
But the message simply says, please, Art, ask Ed Dames to attempt to remote view the resurrection of Jesus.
And I thought that a particularly interesting A project.
The resurrection of Jesus.
Not... If Jesus the man walked the earth, because he's done that, I believe, and the answer was clearly yes.
That somebody named Jesus did in fact live.
But the resurrection would be a very unusual event in the timeline.
As Mr. Creighton, I'm sure, would call it.
In the timeline, the resurrection would be A stand-up, up-out-of-the-noise kind of event, wouldn't it?
Because we don't have a lot of people who have died popping back to life.
Actually, we don't have any.
Not after three days.
That's for doggone sure.
So, to Remote View, the Resurrection, I think, would be a very interesting project, and if anybody can email Ed or let him know that we're interested in that project, Along with everything else we're going to, and he's got some NASA stuff, too.
We're going to cover that on Thursday night, Friday morning.
Right now, we have Dr. Paula Gunn-Allen and, of course, Lloyd Pye, and we're discussing what we call, what Lloyd calls, the Starchild.
Welcome back, both of you.
Thank you.
Lloyd, you brought Dr. Allen on for an obvious reason this morning, and I don't know that I've gotten to the core of everything that you wanted to get from Dr. Allen.
So why don't you ask her whatever you would like?
Well, the whole point of bringing her on was to show that these stories of aliens coming down to earth and impregnating human females to produce hybrid offspring is endemic to all cultures in the world and all times that we're aware of stretching way back into history.
And she's a scholar of that body of knowledge who was willing to come forward and express that to your audience so that they would understand that it's not just me saying that.
It's a true and well-known phenomena.
It's just well known within a tight group of scholars.
It isn't common knowledge.
It's not acknowledged certainly by the mainstream archaeologists in the world or those who have any recorded paperwork of any kind.
This is sort of myth, but it's myth that's everywhere, and that's the inexplicable part of it.
In other words, how can it be in Egypt, in Asia, in Europe, in Africa, in America?
How can we have the same myth?
How could we possibly all have the same myth unless there was something to it?
Right.
And having the reality of the myth emphasized in the way that we're trying to do it, I would think lends support to the idea that what we might have is actually And that's what hit you, Dr. Allen, when you saw those photographs?
of a hybrid of one of these unions that are talked about and talked about and talked about
Yes.
again throughout history and all cultures.
And here we have the possibility of true, genuine evidence of that occurring.
And that's what hit you, Dr. Allen, when you saw those photographs?
Yes.
Yes, because, I mean, it's like one time I was in a New Age bookstore and there was a
book called The Hollow Earth, and it was about African-Americans.
And I've been grown up being told that our people came from under the earth.
And for some reason, because I've been educated in the western world, of course, I always had the idea that that might be some kind of metaphor.
Until I saw the title of that book and then it dawned on me that they were being absolutely straightforward.
Literal about it.
We came from down there.
And why we were under there, I don't know, but I do know why we came up.
It was time because the Earth, you know, had reformed.
And so it was time to come back up to the surface.
And it was that same kind of sensation when I saw what Lloyd had to offer.
It was, oh my gosh, there they are.
You know, it's like you know it, but because we're Westerners, it's always nice to have a piece of physical evidence.
It just, I don't know, somehow it opens things better.
Physical evidence makes a whole lot of difference, and you can be sure there are a lot of people right now popping on their computers to go take a look, including a lot of professionals who will render up some sort of opinion, I'm sure.
No doubt.
Well, okay.
Doctor, anything else about your studies as it relates to star children or the whole concept of star children that you want to pass on?
The one thing I wanted to say to Lloyd earlier was that with the larger brain capacity, Of these people, and to you for that matter, I think that explains one of the odd things about them, that they can get pretty invisible.
And I'm not sure if it's that they can disappear, or if it's because they can mind control us into not seeing them.
If a hypnotist can keep you from seeing the candy bar, or keep you from seeing a chair, he just tells you that you can't see it, and you can't.
Maybe it's even more fully blown like the Matrix.
Exactly.
Oh yes, you saw that, didn't you?
Oh sure.
That was like seeing reality, wasn't it?
It could be something like that, but the thing is we don't have any idea what that much brain power, more than we have, could enable us to do.
But physics gives us a pretty good hint, and you have some great people on your show, that if you put together some of what they're saying with this skull and what I had Michio Kaku, Dr. Kaku, just last week, and he's a big advocate of string theory, and as a matter of fact, co-author of the string theory.
That's it, you're following me.
Oh, sure, and of multi-dimensionality.
I think that's what they do, and certainly our so-called legends, they're not legends, they're oral traditions.
They tell us a lot about this.
I've written about it.
I've got a couple books that focus on the oddity of the way the world works from a native point of view, because we interface continually with these beings.
And that's very hard to convey to modern people, because modern people are raised not to notice that.
Although, actually, it happens to us all the time.
We just don't talk about it to each other.
Sure, there's a lot of things we don't talk about to each other.
All right, well then, Doctor, I want to thank you for coming and joining us tonight and passing all of this on.
You're author of a book?
I've got a number of books out.
The couple that people who have been listening would be interested in, one is called Grandmothers of the Light, and it's got a number of these star-being or star-husband or star-children stories in it.
That I found all over the North American continent.
All right, we now have a link to your website on my website.
Okay, and that one and the off the reservation, those two would have the most information.
Off the reservation?
Yes.
Okay.
And that's the newest book.
All right.
Is that separate from your website?
No, they're listed on my website, or they can all be gotten at Amazon.com or whatever.
Doctor, thank you so very, very much for coming on tonight and passing all this on to us.
You take care.
There, folks, is Dr. Paula Gunn-Allen, and she confirms that these stories, called a myth, if you like, and I suppose they grow to be thought of as myth, are very common all over the world.
Now, what I would like to do is answer a few telephone lines and let people ask you questions, Lloyd, if you're up for it.
Absolutely.
I don't know what else to do except to say, everybody's going to say, Lloyd, that you should take the next step with regard to the genetic testing.
And everybody's going to want that.
And without making a direct appeal to the audience, which I don't think would be a good idea for money, You're looking for a private sponsor of some sort?
Well, no.
Actually, to tell you the truth, we are looking for contributions, small contributions from individuals rather than from a large entity or one person because, again, by taking the commercialization out of it, by making it just a people project, which is what we've tried to do from the beginning, we take away the ability of critics to say, that if any one person put up a lot of money into it that
that person would then have motivation for
in some way altering the results or in some way shifting with the results so
that it it puts money in their pockets if we have a number of just small contributions from
ordinary people uh... it takes away the ability of critics to say that
about what we're doing so we've tried to put it on that basis from the very
beginning But don't you have to, when you do that, form some sort of non-profit... We have all that, yeah.
Oh, you do?
We've done all that, yeah.
We have the Starchild Project, and we have, through the Truth Seeker Foundation, we have an 800 number, we have a box number, and I've been promoting that for quite some time, and it is fully, legitimately non-profit, so it's no problem.
Sure.
Anybody that would like to contribute, it's to the Starchild Project, Care of the Truth Seeker Foundation.
There's an 1-800 number, 1-800-551-5328, or you can just send a contribution, however
small, whatever size, to Box 28550, 28550, San Diego, California, 92198.
So that would be a check made out, or any donation, no cash please, check to the Starchild
Project, care of the Truth Seeker Foundation, Box 28550, 28550, San Diego, 92198, or you
can call 1-800-551-5328.
All right, I know a bunch of people with a lot of money.
$20,000 on the one hand is a lot of money, on the other hand, not.
Well, I've been thinking that for a long time, Art, and it just hasn't manifested.
What I'm saying is, if a single individual approaches you who is willing to sponsor this to be done, the final genetic testing, if they examine this, and I would expect they would want to, And consider there to be a strong enough possibility to justify spending that kind of money to confirm this.
You wouldn't mind?
No, I wouldn't mind.
We would certainly have to look at who it is, what their motivation is, and make sure that we wouldn't be setting ourselves up for some trouble down the road with that particular... Like, for example, if John Gotti were to call from jail and say that he was going to arrange it, we would have to take a second look at that, if you see what I mean.
But we're definitely looking for the funding that we need to get it done.
We know that's what we need.
We know that's what everybody wants.
It's what we want.
It's what we all want.
It's what we... Yeah, but if you... I mean, so what if it's John Gotti?
Well, because again, when you come up with... Let's just say, let's for a moment say that the answer is positive.
That this thing turns out or looks to be or we announce that it is not entirely human.
Now, if we are sponsored by someone who is standing to gain a huge amount of money from this announcement, then suddenly the critics are going to say, oh, well, you can't believe that answer because, look, this guy's making a fortune because he got the answer he paid for.
Yeah, but we're talking now about science.
We're talking about repeatable, testable science.
We're talking about an in-depth genetic examination.
Well, you're right, and the answer would be that the other side could just say, somehow everyone was bought off.
It's not true.
We're going to get that, no matter what.
We need to cut down on the ability of the other side to make a case that will stick against us.
You see what I mean?
Yes, I see what you mean.
Of course, I see exactly what you mean.
Let's see what's on the phones.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Lloyd Pye and Art Bell.
Hello.
Hello, Art.
Hello, Lloyd.
Pleasure speaking with the two of you.
Yes, sir.
My name is Calvin.
I'm calling from Los Angeles.
Right.
All right, and I've been following this avidly with some interest, although I'm a doctoral student in chemistry.
All right.
And I'm having trouble reconciling two pieces of evidence that you guys have given.
All right.
Okay, the first hand, if we accept the hypothesis, you know, about how the skull superficially resembles a gray.
And then we have the evidence of Whitley Striever and such people about these individuals being not of terrestrial origin, but being extraterrestrials.
When you couple that fact with the fact that Lloyd said that the preliminary genetic analysis showed that it was a Male, I believe you said it was?
Male, yes.
Yes.
I have trouble accepting that hypothesis that something of extraterrestrial origin would show actual DNA of a kind familiar to us, because... Well, now, wait a minute, Culler.
If this being, whatever you want to call it, was half human and half something else, why would you not expect to see at least half human genetic structure?
Well, if you study your genetics, you know interspecies breeding doesn't work.
So therefore, you have to be extremely closely related for a successful union to occur.
That's right.
Now, all life on Earth shares common genetic heritage, because according to the current theory of evolution, we all descended from one primordial whatever it was.
Life on Earth was a random, anomalous genetic accident, if you take the purely scientific point of view.
That's why we all share some sort of common genetic heritage.
I find it difficult to accept that something that came from another planet, an extraterrestrial origin, would show identifiable DNA.
That's the only difficulty I'm having.
Well, once again though, please bear with me when I say, why would it surprise you to find common genetic structure if it's half human?
Because interspecies breeding doesn't work, Art.
Well, close interspecies breeding does work.
Well, close interspecies.
Since you're unfamiliar with the structure, the genetic structure of this being, X we'll call it, Right.
The hypothesis said, mated with a human being.
How can you know it's not close?
Well, I'm not saying it's impossible.
I'm just saying that's the one big difficulty I'm having.
That's one big hurdle I have to accept.
I understand, sir.
I thank you.
You seem to be presupposing it's not human at all, or has any part of human in it.
We'll be right back.
I'm Art Bell, and my guest is Lloyd Pye.
If you have questions, that's what we're here for.
Pick up the telephone.
Call us.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 25th, 2000.
In the 70s, everybody's looking for something.
Some of them want to use you.
Some of them want to get used by you.
Some of them want to abuse you.
Some of them want to be abused.
Oh, sweet dreams are made of hate.
Who am I to disagree?
Travel the world and the 70s.
Everybody's looking for something.
Ooh...
Yeah...
I don't care.
Where I go when I'm weary.
When I try, you don't laugh, but you know me.
I'm in you.
You're in me.
I'm in you, you're in me I'm in you, you're in me
Cause you gave me love, love that I never had Yes, you gave me love, love that I never had
you you
You and I don't pretend we make love.
I can't feel anymore that I'm sinking.
singing yeah i'll be with you you're listening to art bell somewhere in time tonight featuring
a replay of coast to coast am from january 25th 2000 We will spend another segment with Lloyd Pye talking about the Starchild, or whatever it is.
If you want to take a look, do so.
It's on my website now at www.artbell.com.
Lloyd Pye also has a website.
We have a link there, and when it's a little quieter tomorrow, say, You'll have a better chance of getting in.
In the meantime, if you want to see the photographs we're talking about, they're on my website, and we've got enough bandwidth, so go take a look.
It's, uh... It's pretty odd.
I don't know how you can sit there and look at that, and believe that it's human, or ever was human, and only has a slight resemblance to anything that might be human.
It definitely should be looked at.
The webmaster Lex has posted everything, right down to the bumper music.
Now also on the website is You can have access to live streaming audio no matter where you are, as long as you're close to a computer, as well as archived shows from the last 90 days.
You can hear the show on your computer anytime you wish.
Plus, you'll have access to George Norrie's Tuesday Night Chats, get the inside story on the show, and the inside story on what's going on on Coast to Coast.
Just log on to coasttocoastam.com.
That's coasttocoastam.com.
Now you can hear Coast to Coast AM on demand.
You'll be glad you did.
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The answers to these questions and so much more are all in the September issue of the After Dark Newsletter.
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Subscribe online as well at coasttocoastam.com for after dark.
Now we take you back to the night of January 25, 2000 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
All right, why don't I come right out and make a suggestion.
First, a question.
Lloyd, are you there?
Yes.
All right.
Lloyd, here's kind of an interesting fact, and it simply asks, Do you have any photographs of the mother's skull?
Yes.
You do?
Well, the human skull.
Now, whether that's the mother or not, but yeah, we have the website.
There are plenty of shots of that as well.
Have there been any determinations made about that skull?
I mean, do we know whether it was male or female?
Yes, it was female, and it was obviously clearly human, and from its features, it looks to have been Amerindian.
A native of the Americas, so it's in every way seems to be perfectly normal, except that it's small.
It's a small skull, as a female of that era would have been, perhaps, and it was cradleboarded in its youth, which is also very common, meaning it was strapped to a board and carried on its mother's back, giving it a very flat rear head in not the way that the store child is flat, a completely different way.
Do you know what NIDS is?
Yes, I do.
It's for Discovery Science, and it's funded by Bob Bigelow, who's got money.
star child you're looking at something that is way beyond cradle boarding it's impossible
to have been cradled or do you know what needs is yes i do
yes it's for discovery science and it's funded by bob bigelow
who's got money uh... news is particularly interested in
uh... physical evidence alloyed have you approached them or have they approached
you so i have not approached them they have not approached me
again with uh... the policy that we've tried to keep to trying to stay away from
organizations like that line and well again there might be The overtone that they are manipulating or would manipulate the data.
If they're going to put that much money into it, they may be willing to put more money into it to manipulate the data, and just as a policy... Oh, I think that's a very unfair allegation.
You don't know that to be true at all.
It may be.
I'm not saying that it's not.
I'm not saying anything, and I'm not casting aspersions on them at all.
I'm saying that when I look at what the critics are going to do to us, that's...
I'm trying to avert that as much as possible.
Yeah, but NIDS is a very legitimate, upscale organization that provides scientists and scientific inquiry, and I can't understand why you would turn up your nose at that.
Well, again, I'm not turning my nose up at it.
When I decided, when we were talking to owners and I about how the policy we were going to follow with this, this was the policy that came out.
And I would certainly have to clear any connection to NIDS or anyone else with them.
And if you want to try to arrange something, I'll be happy to do that.
But they have not been, nor any organization like that, has not been at the head of our list of people we wanted to contact about this.
We were hoping to make it, and we are still hoping to make it, a people's project.
And have it be funded by the people, for the people.
They're the ones that I think will benefit.
Buy a positive result if we get a positive result and I think the results will be a lot less questionable if they're just done out of the pockets of ordinary people.
That's been our philosophy from the beginning.
If the owners want to change now, certainly we've had a difficult time.
I've had a difficult time keeping to that.
And as much as I'm moving off the project, maybe it will be taken in a different direction.
You're moving off the project?
I'm moving off the project as caretaker, yes.
Dr. Ted Robinson, who you talked to, and a fellow named Chad Deepton, who's a friend of ours in Vancouver, are going to be taking over my role as the caretaker and as the individual in charge.
That's big news.
Why are you doing that?
Well, I just financially can't bear up under it anymore.
As I said, we set this up so there would be no money lining anybody's pockets, and that includes mine.
So I'm basically in financial stress now, and I have to go get off the project so that morally I'll be in position to be able to start making money again.
Gotcha.
All right.
Yes, I know.
The last time you were on my show, there was no skull.
Last time I interviewed you, and I understand you did do an interview of some sort with Hilly Rose, but I didn't hear that.
Right.
Last time I interviewed you, we were talking about... My book.
Your book.
Right.
That's right.
And I stopped all of that when I took on the Starchild, and I've tried to do this as upfront and as honestly and as straightforwardly as I could.
All right.
That's a straight enough answer.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Lloyd Pye.
Hi, this is John in Encino, California.
Hi, John.
How are you?
Fine.
Can I make a quick weather comment?
Sure.
Okay.
I just find it amazing that with all the things that are going on, the most important issue on the news seems to be where the six-year-old belongs in Florida or Cuba.
Well, not here.
You don't hear me chatting much about that.
No.
Fortunately, you've written your book, which is just astounding.
Oh, my book, The Weather Hasn't?
Yes.
Now, on this matter... I know, look, every now and then, let me take a second out, our society seems to decide that it wants some kind of story like the six-year-old boy, or like the baby that falls down the well, or something which, you know, is dramatic and interesting to tell, and maybe entertaining, but of somewhat questionable Hard news value compared, that is, to what else is out there.
Absolutely.
And I don't know why we do that, but we do it.
Entertainment.
I don't know.
Well, anyway, I saw something about this show about a week ago or so on television.
I can't remember what station or anything.
And it took me back to a program I saw back in the 70s, which was called In Search Of, and hosted by Leonard Nimoy.
Episode I'm thinking of was called In Search of Ancient Astronauts, and it really related directly to the ancient Mayan and Aztec civilizations with the etchings in the earth that are only visible from outer space, things like that.
And when I heard this, it makes me think that, you know, something like interbreeding or whatever, a hybrid, is entirely possible, and maybe probable, and maybe this is something that was missing That now it's turned up, and oddly or interestingly enough, it turns up in Mexico or Central America, wherever it comes from.
Maybe not so surprising.
A lot of that ancient astronaut stuff was in South America.
Right.
And there's one thing that came up that I've never heard about again that I found most interesting, and there's one thing that I'm surprised the woman from UCLA didn't bring up.
That's about quetzalcoatl.
Do you know anything about quetzalcoatl?
Lloyd?
Well, that he was the god of the Aztecs.
As far as I know, it was the Aztecs, right?
I believe it was the Aztecs.
White god, bearded, supposedly stayed with the people for a certain length of time, taught them everything, left, said he'd come back.
Cortez arrived, they assumed it was him, and so that's how that small band of men could come in and conquer that great nation, because they assumed he was their god returning.
There was also a very detailed carving in stone that depicted, and it didn't have the gray body or the head or anything, it looked like an Indian descendancy, but he was in a spaceship Are in a space suit, excuse me, and it's the Maya, the carving on the sarcophagus.
Yes, and he's operating some type of craft or something with gauges and dials and things that there's no way they would have any of this back then, or even where would it come from?
Oh no, your point is very well taken, Caller.
There's a lot of that.
And it's simply inexplicable.
I mean, they are depicting things that could not have existed at that time.
Period.
That's all there is to it.
East of the Rockies, you're on air with Lloyd Pye and Art Bell.
Hi.
Yes, good morning.
Good morning, Art.
Fine.
Yeah, this is Steve from Windsor, Ontario, Canada, and I'm actually a first-time caller.
Lucky enough to make it through on this line, I guess.
Yes.
But the question that I have to ask is something that I asked Dr. David Jacobs and never really got an answer from him in a letter that I sent regarding an alien abductions that I feel that my family's been going through.
This question here is regarding Perjurian children.
Now, as we all know, these Perjurian children, they don't really have a 100% clue yet as to what is causing Perjuria in these children.
And I've had this sort of a crazy hypothesis in my own head going around that because they age so fast, because the aliens When they travel in these machines of theirs, their life slows down, sort of.
Because as they attain the speed of light, things slow down.
Now what if they were using their genetics?
Their lives slow down from our perspective.
Yes, exactly.
In literal time, their lives do not slow down.
You know, they would go out and come back, and we would be very old or dead, and they would still appear not to have aged.
Yes, right.
So, possibly, you know, maybe their genes reflect that.
I mean, this is just my thought, but if they were fooling around, you know, putting these children into these women, and they forgot one behind.
Just say they just accidentally lost track of it.
Could these progerian children be left behind?
I don't know.
That's as good a theory as anybody's, Lloyd.
I don't really think so because progeria is a genetic defect.
It's pretty well known.
For those who don't know what it is, it's a disease that afflicts children and makes them age very rapidly.
Very distinct look about themselves, very easy to see a progeria child, but the problem there is they occur, as far as I know, in all races across the broad spectrum of humanity, always have and perhaps always will.
It is a fundamental genetic flaw in our gene pool, and we have many like that.
And I don't think it was one that got loose and just put a few progeria children in their area.
It would have had to be when humanity was first getting started.
All right.
Then, in fact, not a very likely scenario.
Not a scenario.
All right.
Wes to the Rockies.
You're on the air with Lloyd Pye.
Hello.
Hello there, Art.
Hello, Lloyd.
A couple of things here.
About an hour ago, You asked the question, that is Art, you asked the question to either Lloyd or perhaps one of your callers, I'm not sure, what the difference would be 900 years back by a lot of places.
That's right, that's right, yes.
And his answer, I believe, was practically none.
That's right.
And the fact is, 900 years ago, the average height was about 5 feet tall, as a lot of the 13th, 14th century Armor and clothing would reflect, and so evolutionary changes can happen very rapidly with regard to changes in diet and environmental changes.
I'm not saying this to refute the possibility that this skull is of some alien origin.
No, no, no.
I understand what you're saying, and I think it is true that as recently as 900 years ago the average height was less.
And also, it was mentioned that the Neanderthal brain was the same as ours.
In fact, they were larger than ours by quite a bit, by maybe 10%.
So just a note.
Gee, we only, as far as I know, use 10% of our brains.
He's right in that, and when Ted said that I think he meant just in general terms about the same.
I don't think he said specifically the same.
They averaged about 1,500 cubic centimeters, Neanderthals did, and we average 1,400 cubic centimeters today as well.
So those are the averages, and indeed the Starchild has a 1,600 cubic centimeter brain capacity.
So it is, as he said, 200 cubic centimeters larger than average human, which is more than enough for another species.
Also, a couple callers back, a gentleman asked about the presence of DNA in this specimen and how could that possibly exist if it was alien.
And my answer to that is simply, what if They are our progenitors.
What if we are descended from these aliens?
That is exactly what I believe and talk about in my book, so yes, that would have been my answer.
Also, his question presupposed that these hybrids are the result of sexual union, and it's, I think, very unlikely that that's the case, even though there are many stories of actual sexual intercourse between Aliens and human women, I think, in producing the offspring.
Now, that flies in the face, of course, of what your second guest said, Lloyd.
That's, no, what I'm saying is, it could, though there are many, many reports of that, yes, of sexual union, and some are due to be produced hybrids, but others could be produced by, in vitro, by manipulation, by genetic manipulation, because Many stories about greys, and there are other kinds of aliens, understand.
But in talking about greys, many, many stories say that there are no outward genitalia to be seen, whether male or female.
Now, if that's the case, then they're probably going to have some other kind of reproductive means.
And so, to produce a hybrid with us, it would almost, I believe, almost have to be done in vitro in a lab.
Where the female egg is taken, it is manipulated in some way, the gray sperm would be inserted, and then you would have a hybrid from that, and then that would be reinserted, exactly like we do in neutral fertilization now.
We are woefully out of time.
Lloyd, give out your information again.
I know you're seeking donations.
You formed a, what, some sort of tax-free... Nonprofit.
Exactly.
Nonprofit.
It's the Starchild Project.
Anybody wants to contribute to the Starchild Project, care of.
The Truth Seeker Foundation, Box 28550, San Diego, California, 92198, and there's a 1-800 number, 800-551-5328.
Any donation would be appreciated.
So what are you going to do?
Are you going to write another book?
Absolutely, going to get to work on number two, Origins of Life.
Well, for all the research you've done and all you've done with it so far, we thank you, Lloyd, and we'll be following You and the skull.
Thank you very much, Art.
I appreciate it.
Take care, my friend.
All right, that's Lloyd Pye.
I'm Art Bell.
Good night, all.
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