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Dec. 1, 1999 - Art Bell
03:15:57
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Peter Hadfield - The Coming Tokyo Earthquake. Peter Davenport - Missouri Sightings
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From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and
or a good morning wherever you may be across this great land of ours.
It's great to be here, believe me.
Sorry I wasn't here last night.
I'm going to do something in a moment that I don't normally do.
do i want to tell you exactly why i was not here last night i think it's something you should listen very closely to
because it could happen to you
you.
Perhaps not, perhaps not as likely, but it could happen to you, so in a moment I'll tell you all about that.
At any rate, from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands out west, eastward to the Caribbean, U.S.
Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to the pole, and worldwide on the Internet, thanks to Broadcast.com and the Intel Corporation for this wonderful mathematics that has allowed these New programs, G2, the Beta G7, to be out there that you can download for free, go to my website at www.artbell.com, download one of those programs, load it into your computer, come back here, and that is to my website, and click on Streaming Video, and here I will be
Doing the show visibly and with audio as well.
It's what I call almost TV.
It's really amazing actually All right in a moment I Said I'm going to do something I would normally never do under these circumstances and probably a lot of people don't want me to do And I'm going to tell you exactly why I was not here last night coming right up.
Alright, here we go.
I, you know, as a talk show host, I get a lot of threats.
I mean, my FBI file would probably break your foot if it were to fall on it.
I get a lot of threats and I've come to recognize what seems to be real and what isn't, although you can tragically misguess.
I got a threat yesterday, a very serious threat.
And here's how it developed.
During the day, early in the day actually, I got a call from another national talk show host.
And I'm going to eliminate some names from all of this.
Another nationally syndicated talk show host who said, hey Art, I think I've got something here you better pay attention to.
And what he had was a communication from An individual who had, at previous times, some loose connection to militias, you know, that kind of thing.
And this individual had received a letter from a person in Atoka, Oklahoma.
Remember that name, Atoka, Oklahoma.
It's a little town.
You'll find it on the map if you look at Toca, Oklahoma.
And here was this letter which was, in my opinion, rambling and psychotic and crazy.
But in the body of the letter, he threatened directly and soon to come to where I live And loosely, almost quoting here, rape my whore wife in front of my eyes, kill her, and then slit my throat.
He'd written this.
I had a copy of the letter.
And so, obviously, I decided I should, at least to some degree, pursue this.
And it turns out, check this out now folks, a police officer, a member of the Etoka Police Department, took this letter, not based on my phone call because I was not yet involved, but based on the urging of the party who had contacted the National Talk Show, it was that same party, and went to this person's house with a letter.
He laid it down in front of him and said, did you make, is this your letter?
Did you write this?
Are you threatening to kill Art Bell and his family?
And he said, oh yes.
Yes, I am.
And that was enough.
I think at that point they had him stand up, they cuffed him, and they took him away to a mental health facility, specifically the Carl Albert Mental Health Center.
There, in Atoka, or near Atoka, the Carl Albert Mental Health Center.
This all occurred last week, prior to Thanksgiving.
And so, obviously, at this point, I am beginning to inquire, and I'm hearing that, well, yeah, this guy's been picked up, and he's at the mental health facility, and so forth and so on.
And I am assuming, and the authorities there are assuming, that he is going to be held.
I mean, that should be a crime, shouldn't it?
To write that you're going to do something like that to somebody, and then when a police officer walks in with a letter and you say, oh yeah, I'm going to do it.
That ought to be a crime.
You would think.
At any rate, we began to try and assess, which is what you do, How serious a threat it is.
Now, this man had been given a six-year, we found out, sentence for either committing violence or threatening to commit violence with a silenced machine gun.
It served, you know, six years for that.
Now, that right away tells you that you probably ought to take the threat seriously.
And so at that point, I began to take the threat seriously.
So, as a natural course of events, I began to try to find out what was going on with this person.
My network began to try and find out what was going on with this person.
And in doing that, we had occasion to try and contact the police department, the district attorney's office, And, of course, the Carl Albert Mental Health Center where he was being held.
Well, incredibly, and this really is incredible, they said, well, you know, this guy's demanded a jury trial and there's going to be a jury trial.
Well, yesterday there was no jury trial.
Turns out the district attorney was not feeling up to snuff, wasn't feeling well, was sick and at home, and because of that, plus the fact that the police officer involved, bless his heart, was off duty.
And so, somehow, instead of having a trial, they had a hearing.
And because nobody was there to present Exactly.
There was even a doctor who had examined this person, and the doctor had said this was the most delusional case this doctor had ever seen.
I mean, that's not a trivial statement.
There's somebody, you know, used to dealing with this kind of thing all the time.
Most delusional person this doctor had ever examined.
So, by this time, I'm freaking out a little bit, and I'm thinking, So what's going on?
So we began contacting people, and we got stonewalled.
And when I say stonewalled, man, I mean stonewalled.
All I wanted to know was whether this person was being released, whether there had been a hearing, and I began to get information from not the authorities there, but from people that we had to begin to employ, attorneys in Oklahoma, Investigators who would begin to look into what was going on.
I began to get information that he'd been cut loose at this hearing.
Just plain cut loose.
Because a judge took a look and you know basically I guess without the input of physicians or the input of the police department or the input of the district attorney's office that was trying to do something.
The DA himself.
It looked very much yesterday as though this guy had been kicked loose.
And I thought, oh my God, you know, there's a guy on the way out here to kill me and my family.
So that was the situation last night at about airtime.
Now when I go on the air, as I am now, I've got to be able to, you know, I have to concentrate on what I'm doing.
I can't come on the air and do a five-hour radio show while I'm trying to be vigilant About somebody who's coming here to slaughter me and my family.
The two are not compatible.
And since I couldn't get any answers, I stayed off the air, and I sat in here with a 12-gauge shotgun, and I guarantee you, had somebody shown up with evil intentions, I'd have blown them in half in two seconds flat.
And I was all set to do it.
Still am.
Now, indeed, This person has been released.
We have some resources on the ground so that I'm comfortable enough with regard to his present whereabouts at any given moment that I can be here on the air tonight talking to you.
Were it not for those resources, I wouldn't be here tonight, I guarantee you.
When it comes down to your family being threatened in that way, From somebody who has demonstrated the propensity to do this sort of thing, and going on the air, sitting with a shotgun, wins!
Believe me!
Now, I've got a little bit of bitching that I want to do here about the system itself.
Consider the situation.
I'm waiting for somebody to show up to kill me, right?
My wife?
My family?
And so, I called, among others, our local Nye County Sheriff.
Bless the Sheriff Department's heart.
They made a call back to the Colonel Albert Mental Health Center, as did many others.
And even with my local police department calling them, the people there were snotty, wouldn't give information, wouldn't say anything about this guy.
In other words, I don't want all the gory details.
I don't care about all the gory details.
I just want to know whether he's there or he's on the way to kill me, right?
That's all I want to know.
Is he there or is he on the way to kill me and my family?
And not only would they not tell me, but they were just snotty as hell about it.
I said, look, what's it going to take?
The sheriff's department here called.
I said, if you want an FBI agent to walk in, would you give them the information?
They said, no.
No, we wouldn't.
And then, not the district attorney himself in Atoka, but the district attorney's office in Atoka was every bit as snotty.
All I wanted to know was the status of this guy who was wanting to come and kill me.
Is he in some kind of custody?
Is he in some kind of care?
Or is he on his way?
I'm sorry, we can't give out that information.
Well, what kind of screwed up system protects a potential killer and won't give any information to the potential victim?
Now, I know in California there have been some changes in the law because a lot of people have been killed.
You know, people released from psychiatric facilities or prisons or whatever.
And people who were supposed to be notified weren't notified.
Well, they made some pretty positive changes in the law in California, but I'll tell you what.
It's back in the Stone Age in Oklahoma.
And Oklahoma damn well better do something about their laws.
So I have several questions here.
Number one.
Wouldn't you suppose that if you wrote, if somebody wrote a letter suggesting they were going to kill a man's wife and man and his family, slit their throats and all this horrible stuff, and a police officer walked in and put it down on the table and said, did you write this threat?
Is this what you intend to do?
And the guy says, yes.
Wouldn't you imagine there to be a law against that?
Wouldn't you imagine that Somebody could be held for longer than just a very short time, so that a tragedy like that does not occur?
Well, apparently not.
Wouldn't you imagine that under those circumstances, you would be able to get information, certainly not private psychological evaluations and that kind of stuff, you're not going to get that, but just the basic, hey, He's here.
He's not on the way to kill you.
Something like that.
Well, the DA's office and this mental health facility, this Carl Albert, the mental health facility, wouldn't even give that out.
Now, when did we swing back toward protecting the potential perpetrator or terrorist And absolutely not inferring the potential victim of murder.
What kind of bass, awkward system is that?
It's insane.
Absolutely insane.
And there was attitude there.
It was like, no, we're not going to tell you.
Absolutely not.
We're not going to tell you.
We're not going to tell the FBI.
We're not going to tell anybody else who wants to know.
We're not going to tell them.
Whether this person is still here or not, not even that much.
I said, look, people on my behalf said, look, this guy, you know, with a criminal record, has written down, written that he's going to go and kill the Bell family.
And they wouldn't tell us whether he was released or still roaming around free, potentially headed in this area to do exactly that.
So, as I said, I had no choice.
But to virtually sit through the night with a shotgun, ready to do whatever had to be done.
That was all I could do.
It's the damnedest thing I've ever run into.
So there must be some kind of law.
Now, I don't know what it is, but it's one screwed up, foobarred law that would protect somebody who would potentially kill somebody.
Or a family.
And would not find a way, no matter how you would plead, to notify you whether this person was either in some sort of protective custody, some facility, some something, or whether they were on their way to kill you.
So, that about wraps it up, frankly.
That's why I was not here last night.
And I kind of have this policy of Trying to inform my audience of what's really going on, and I debated heavily whether I should say all of this or not, because no doubt it'll bring other nutcases out of the woodwork.
But the other side of this coin is, if somebody doesn't speak up, if somebody doesn't say something about this kind of screwed-up operation, then nothing's going to change.
So, to the Carl Albert Mental Health Center back in Oklahoma, To the people in the DA's office in Atoka, you're one screwed up bunch.
That's what I've got to say to you.
And if you keep going like this, you're going to get somebody killed.
I'm glad it's not me.
I'm glad it's not my wife.
Not yet.
I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
I'm going to be singing a song called, I'm Going to Be Singing a Song Called,
I'm Going to Be Singing a Song Called, I'm Going to Be Singing a Song Called,
I'm Going to Be Singing a Song Called, East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
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This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
That it is.
Good morning, everybody.
Great to be here.
Anyway, that's why I wasn't here last night.
Again, I want to thank our local Nye County Sheriff's Department.
And by the way, there is a law here, even in Nevada, We're not California, we're Nevada, but if somebody were to walk up, a police officer were to walk up to an individual that made such threat on paper, and they were to affirm that threat, that person definitely, definitely would be arrested here.
And I know in California, where they've had a number of tragedies occur, but apparently, in Oklahoma, there's a very different kind of something going on.
I have no idea, but it's one screwed up mess.
That favors the person who is potentially going to commit the crime, and actually snubs their nose at the potential victim of the crime to the degree they won't even let you know where that person is.
So, it's the damnedest thing I ever saw, and yes, I'm pretty angry about it.
Anyway, we've got a lot to do tonight, so in a moment, we shall begin.
Alright, here we go.
We've got a lot going on tonight at the top of the hour.
Peter Hadfield will be my guest from Tokyo, Japan.
And he's written a book called 60 Seconds That Will Change the World.
60 Seconds That Will Change the World.
Intriguing.
From Tokyo, he called.
We'll call him.
And that, by the way, is what he's talking about when he named his book Tokyo, Japan.
So we're going to interview him from Tokyo.
In the meantime, there's something, something, folks, going on in the skies over, I think, Missouri.
Let's see.
Is that right?
Missouri?
I think so.
Reading here.
Actually, it doesn't say.
Well, you know who the guy is that I've got on the line, don't you?
Peter Davenport from the National UFO Reporting Center.
And was it Missouri, Peter?
It was indeed, Art.
Columbia, Missouri.
The Show Me State, so I guess they had shown.
Yeah, they sure did.
Columbia, Missouri, huh?
Yeah, Columbia, Missouri.
Tonight, this is two and a half hours ago.
One of the things I like to do is share with our listeners cases which are either dramatic and or recent.
And I think we filled both bills on this one tonight.
I don't think I can get any more recent than two and a half hours.
I agree with you.
What happened?
At about 10 o'clock Central Standard Time tonight, three people were sitting around their dining room table just about six miles north of Columbia, Missouri, and a woman whom we will hear just in a matter of minutes, I presume, looked out the sliding glass door window, and I'm going to let her tell most of her story, but she saw some very interesting lights.
The longer she looked at them, the more intrigued she became, and the closer they came.
And from that point forward, I'm going to let our guests tell their own story, because it's very dramatic.
It is a very blatant sighting of what you've been talking about for years and years, Art.
The triangles.
Triangles, you bet.
Triangles.
All right, here we go.
Peter Gersten, attention.
He's into triangles, too.
Yes, indeed.
So, here we go.
To Columbia, Missouri.
To our guest, or actually one of three guests, and this is, well, hello there.
Are you there?
Yes, I am.
You are.
Okay, you're going to have to get really close to your phone and yell at us a little bit, sort of project your voice so that we can all hear you.
Your name is Martha?
Yes, it is.
Do you want to give your last name, Martha?
Yes, I do, sir.
My name is Martha George.
Martha George.
Yes, sir.
All right, Martha, what happened tonight?
Well, I was at the patio glass door looking at it around 10 o'clock tonight and from the west I seen this bright light.
And my guest seemed staring out the glass door and happened to see the same bright light.
It was quite close.
So he went out the back door and I followed him and so did my daughter.
Whatever it was came darkly over us.
No sound.
No sound.
Going quite slowly.
Then it turned toward the southeast.
I see.
Martha, how high would you guess it to be?
Oh, it was not too far above the treetops, sir.
It was very close.
All right, let me use Peter's great way of describing the size of something.
If you were to hold up your thumb or your fist at arm's length, was it that big?
Was it bigger?
Oh, it was huge.
Much bigger?
Much bigger, yes.
Yes.
If you brought that fist halfway to your face, Was it that big?
Oh, much bigger.
Oh, God.
This is, uh, this then sounds very much like what I saw.
Um, you saw how many lights?
Okay, I seen what seemed to be a triangular shape with bright lights and a red light which seemed maybe to be in the center of this object.
This object turned, as it turned, it looked like another bright light dropped off to the lower right side of it.
And, uh, It was still going slowly and there were also two beams of light coming from the right and left side of this object.
And then it just slowly faded, you know, out of sight from me.
This was quite an experience for me.
You know what?
I understand, Martha.
I saw something exactly like it some years ago with my wife.
Now, was it making any noise at all?
No, sir.
No noise.
No.
And if it had been an unusual airplane or anything... Sir, it was so close.
Martha, uh... It was unusual.
No?
Could you make out any substance between the lights?
Were you aware that what you were seeing was a solid object of some kind?
I could not tell.
It was dark.
All we could see was make out the lights.
And I know there was no windows in this thing.
Or, you know, if it was an airplane, you could... Sure.
I've seen the windows, but this is exactly what I've seen.
Were you in shock for a while?
I just couldn't describe it.
I just certainly was.
Well, fortunately, you're not the only one there who saw it.
We have others, don't we?
We have... Two other people.
Who would you like to put on next?
I will put my daughter on.
Your daughter?
Okay, please do.
Thank you.
This should be Miss Amy, George.
Hi, is this Amy?
Yes, it is.
Amy, welcome to the program.
Hi.
I just talked to your mom.
She described what she saw.
Yes.
Is that exactly what you saw?
Basically the same thing.
When I went outside, I followed the two of them.
David was the first one outside.
My mom followed behind him.
I went behind her.
David is your fiancé?
Yes.
And we'll talk to him in a moment.
But he saw it as well.
Yes.
And so then out you went.
When we made it outside, it was coming towards us, and it was going really, really slow.
Oh, I meant to ask your mom about that.
I'm glad you added that.
How slowly would you guess this thing is moving?
Oh, my goodness.
It was such a...
Such a sight to see, you know what I mean?
I really couldn't tell you, but I know it was going super slow.
Well, your mom said... Nothing like an airplane.
Yeah, your mom, though, said it was not much above treetop level.
Do you agree with that?
I will agree with that.
So then... Very, very low.
So then, it would have had to have been going very slowly indeed for you to register slow in your mind, because even a normal prop airplane coming above you at just above treetop level is going to go screaming over you like a cruise missile.
And so, when you say this went slow, it must have been doing 20, 30, 40 miles an hour, something like that?
I'm going to guess, yes, somewhere around in there.
Yeah, and it was, from what I've seen, was like three super bright lights in a triangle shape.
And I tried to look in between, like, you know, the lights to see if I couldn't see metal or windows or something, and I couldn't see anything but the lights.
And in the middle of it was like a bright yellowish color, and then there was a red light also that seemed to rotate, not necessarily rotate, but flash somewhat.
Well, all I can say, Amy, is welcome to the club.
There are thousands of people across the country right now who have seen what you just saw a couple of hours ago, and we still don't have answers about what it is.
The government denies they have any such thing in their possession, so that doesn't leave a lot of choices.
Not a lot.
Not a lot.
It was quite an experience.
Alright.
Amy, I want to thank you, and I want to thank your mom, and I want you to put your fiancé on for us.
By the way, hey Amy, when are you going to get married?
You know, we're not really for sure yet.
Not quite for sure yet.
I'll put him on though, okay?
All right.
Thank you very much.
Very good.
This is Amy's fiancé, Mr. David Palmer, you're about to hear from.
Yeah, hello?
Hi, David.
Yeah, how you doing?
All right.
It's fairly rare, David, that we get the opportunity to talk to three eyewitnesses who have just seen something, literally a couple of hours ago, a really major sighting, in this case in Columbia, Missouri, and I'm sure you just heard what your potential mother-in-law and Your fiancé said, what do you say?
Freaked me out.
Freaked you out?
Freaked me out bad.
I couldn't move.
I was stuck.
I mean, I was scared, but I couldn't move.
It didn't bother them, but it bothered me.
I mean, I'm still a little shook up about it.
I went out first, and I was in the yard, and it was right over me.
I mean, she said she believed it was going 45.
There's no way, because, I mean, it was right above us.
Right above you.
Yeah, it was right, I mean, I looked up and I seen, what I seen was, uh, I didn't see it when it was directly above us, but as it moved a little bit.
Yes.
It was more of a yellowish light in the middle, and then a red light that was like, it was, it was a triangle shape.
Yep.
And the red light went around it like Christmas lights.
You know, almost like a Christmas tree, like the lights you put on a Christmas tree.
Sure.
And it was red, and it went all the way around the triangle, and it never stopped.
And when it turned, it turned weird.
I mean, when it, you know how playing, you can't see the light no more?
Yes.
Well, when it turned, it like, you still seen everything.
I mean, you still seen all the lights and it was still rotating.
All right.
Um, no, no noise.
No noise.
Could you see any substance to the craft?
Anything at all that, that said to you there's something in between these lights?
No.
Just the lights.
And the lights, even at that close, it must have been a very dark night.
Yeah, it was dark here.
David, just a question if I may.
If you had had a rock in your hand, was this object close enough to you such that if you'd thrown that rock, you could have hit it?
I really don't know because the trees are off to us a little bit.
And when I first seen it, I'm just guessing, I was stuck after I seen it.
After it got close enough, I could actually see the lights.
I was stuck.
I mean, I could not move.
And I was down in the middle of the yard, and they were closer to the house.
And I don't know.
I honestly don't know.
I was literally stuck.
You know what?
I understand that feeling, because we had the same feeling.
My wife and I saw this, and we just stood there with our mouths open, not saying anything, watching the event as you watched it.
And then there was a long period of silence, and we drove home.
And we sat down, and there was a lot of silence for a long, quite a while, and then we started comparing notes about what we saw.
Yeah, when it was gone, I remember thinking, is this really happening?
I was like, you know, I asked them, did y'all, y'all really did see that, you know?
And I couldn't believe I had seen it.
So you turn to each other, and you begin to relate what you saw.
Well, we was all freaking out.
We was like, oh my God.
Yes.
You know, yeah, we've seen it too.
I mean, I'm still, I mean, I've had this tingling feeling.
Ever since it happened, I mean, they don't believe I'm scared, you know, because I'm supposed to be the man.
But, I mean, it's not a shaking feeling, but it's like a tingling feeling, like some kind of rush.
Could you blink your eyes or move your eyes when you were looking at this, David?
I don't know.
I couldn't tell you.
I remember thinking, as it was going away, I wanted to turn, you know, and come in.
Because, I mean, I was already at that point, and I couldn't.
I could just watch it.
Do you have any animals in the household there, do you know?
Um, no.
Dogs or cats or birds or anything like that?
No.
Okay.
There's a cat, a stray cat that comes around that we feed out back.
Just wondering how the animals reacted, but obviously there were none there.
No.
So, so there it is.
The three of you saw this about two hours ago.
Now, with the size of this thing, Columbia, Missouri is a kind of a medium-sized town, right?
No, it's a pretty large city.
It is?
Yes.
Well, then you would think that quite a number of people would have seen it, right?
Yes.
Well, I mean, I remember when we went out after it was over, you know, I was, I was, I got a little loud after it was gone.
And I got to looking around, you know, to see if the neighbors was out.
And nobody, there was nobody out.
And I mean, we're in a rather, you know, decent neighborhood.
I mean, you can see the neighbors in our backyard.
They're right across from us.
I mean, it was just a thing where I remember when she was looking out the window and I turned and looked out the window, it was like she was sitting there, just sitting there looking in the window.
And when we went out and looked out the window, it was still there.
You know, it looked like football field lights.
You know, like car headlights?
Yes.
And when I went out the back door, it was still there.
It hadn't moved.
So I went out on toward the yard and was looking because I knew I'd never seen it before.
Do you think, as a final question here, do you think what you saw was from this planet?
I couldn't answer that.
I mean, I have no idea what I saw.
That's a good answer.
I have no idea.
Listen, my friend, thank your fiancée.
Okay.
Thank her mom.
Yes, sir.
And we appreciate close-in reports of the sort you have just given us.
Thank you.
Okay, thank you.
Obviously, if anybody else in Columbia, Missouri has seen this, we'd love to have you contact the National UFO Reporting Center.
Very little time, only time enough to tell you they operate on donations up there.
And so let us give you both the address and the phone number.
The address, Peter.
The address is P.O.
Box 45623, 45623, University Station, Seattle, Washington, and our zip code is 98145.
And our telephone number, ART, our UFO reporting hotline is area code 206-722-3000.
Again, that is area code 206-722-3000 that operates from 8 a.m.
to midnight most days.
All right, Peter.
Bless your heart.
Thank you for bringing this report to us tonight.
Thank you, Art, and I wish you the best down there.
Good night, Peter.
And all that high and mighty scenery going to get leveled to the ground, boy, by a bunch
of them mindless strip minds over there.
Come on, let's get out of here.
We're going to be late for school.
So listen to my brothers, when you hear the night wind sigh Can you see the wild boots fly into the great polluted sky?
There won't be no country music, there won't be no rock and roll
When they take away our country, they'll take away our soul Well, that's all we want to think about.
Wanna take a ride?
Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
yellow grass fire start the murder. This is for the battle in Seattle. Warnings on them beer cans
going to be buried in the landfills. No deposit, no set songs and no return. Wanna take a ride?
Well call Art Bell from west to the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
East to the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
Music. There won't be no rock and roll. When they take away our country, they'll take away our soul.
Yeah, it's only gonna be about a second, boy, till they take away all this country, and they'll tell you not to listen to those dear songs.
And that far-off sound of freedom's gonna be an echo from the past, when the final tune is gonna be sad and long.
And it might as well be about an Ivy Club and they pull out the world of blindness so we just can't read all the methods on the wall.
But the only words that matter ought to be scribbled all over them billboards in big old black and bloody letters ten feet tall.
There won't be no country music.
There won't be no rock and roll.
And they can't go wrong.
You know, nobody is more of an advocate for free trade than I am.
I'm a big one.
I'm a capitalist.
I understand that.
You know, nobody is more of an advocate for free trade than I am.
I'm a big one.
I'm a capitalist.
I understand that.
But the World Trade Organization needs to loosen up.
I don't know a lot more about him than that.
the people planet Earth. They better listen. That's all I've got to say. And that's what's
being said. You better listen. Or else.
All right. Peter Hadfield is a geologist. I don't know a lot more about him than that.
We're going to have you listen for a moment to Mr. Hadfield's description of himself.
But he is a geologist.
I know that.
He's written a book called 60 Seconds That Will Change the World, The Coming Tokyo Earthquake.
Now, Peter is in Tokyo right now, so we're going to reach out across the Pacific, across the dateline, and touch him if we can.
Peter, are you there?
Yes, I'm Hirad.
How are you doing?
I'm just fine.
Peter, if you would, tell me a little bit about yourself.
Yes, I'm sorry.
My apologies for not filling you in a bit earlier, but I'll tell you briefly who I am.
I'm actually a freelance journalist.
I'm a former geologist, and I gave that up in favor of a career in writing.
I've been in Japan now for 13 years.
Having lived in South America for four years, I've been here in Tokyo for 13 years as a
freelance journalist, which is now my job.
The book came about, obviously, because of my interest in geology and the fact that I'm
living in one of the hottest earthquake zones in the world.
I began asking questions about ... Well, actually, more or less as soon as I arrived in the mid-1980s
about what was going to happen in the event of an earthquake, because a lot of people
I knew were talking about the big one that was going to hit this place.
And no one seemed to know.
And it was only when I was doing a story on volcanoes that I met a geologist.
And at the end of the interview, I asked him, what is this earthquake that's going to hit here?
And he explained it very clearly to me in a way that I could understand.
And I was absolutely astounded at how obvious this threat is, and yet how nobody is really taking it Very seriously.
Well, including, to some degree, Peter Hadfield, who is in, there you are, in Tokyo, after all.
Who do you do your correspondence work for?
I'm a freelance journalist.
I work... I don't know if I can give any names out, but these are radio networks in the U.S.
I freelance for ABC News.
I knew I'd heard your name somewhere.
It was on ABC.
I'm on ABC.
I'm also a correspondent here for USA Today.
I should say Stringer for USA Today.
I'm, again, freelance for them.
But I've been regular now with USA Today for several years.
We have a very good working relationship, and likewise with ABC.
Yes, yes.
I've heard you any number of times on ABC.
So, that's some background.
And you are, by choice then, since you're freelance, obviously, in Tokyo.
Yeah, I mean, you know, let's not go overboard on this.
There is a threat here, but, you know, I could be living in some cities in the world.
I think I was in more danger when I was living in South America.
Even Los Alamos?
Things other than earthquakes.
You know, I mean, one has to sort of take the threats as they come.
And of course, part of the job of being a journalist is you go to where the threats are.
I mean, I was out in Taipei when the earthquake struck in Taiwan, and I was actually broadcasting live when one of the aftershocks happened.
And, you know, you can't run for cover.
You just got to keep on going.
Part of the job of being a journalist is to Is to be in sort of the hot spots, and that's what makes the job, I suppose, exciting as well as interesting.
Well, Peter, I live out here in the middle of the desert, west of Las Vegas, in a little town called Pahrump in Nye County, Nevada.
And here, a few weeks ago, we had a 7.0 up in the high desert of California.
And let me tell you, my friend, it just scared the you-know-what out of me and everybody else around this valley.
We got hit really hard here.
We heard about it even over here.
We got hit really hard and people don't, they just don't understand how scary an earthquake is if they don't live in earthquake country.
I lived for a decade on Okinawa and I went through any number of them there.
The book you've written, 60 Seconds That Will Change the World, embraces I guess the concept or the idea or the inevitability of an earthquake that would literally Perhaps destroy Tokyo, is that correct?
Well, there are various threats, and I won't bore you too much on the details, but let me just run through the price of the book.
There is an area of crustal plates here which are sort of crushing up against each other and moving against each other in this part of the world which is causing these earthquakes.
Now the area of biggest danger is about 120 kilometers, that's what, about 80 miles west of Tokyo, where they are expecting what is likely to be the biggest earthquake in Japan this century.
I mean we're talking about a magnitude 8.1 is the estimate of most seismologists.
8.1.
8.1.
Now this is, because of the Richter scale, the way it works, that's going to be about 30 times as big as the one that you felt.
Right.
Actually unimaginable.
Yeah.
It's going to be, as you say, I mean these earthquakes are really scary when they hit and you can think you're as safe as anything when you don't feel one, but when it hits and everything is moving around, then you think the whole world is going to collapse.
So this is going to be quite a big one.
The question is, what will be the threat to the capital?
I'm actually more interested in the damage that that will do to the industrial belt west of Tokyo, because we're talking about upwards of a trillion dollars worth of damage, and this has been calculated by a bank, and it's a very rough estimate.
A trillion dollars?
A trillion dollars, yeah.
Weíre talking about the actual damage, half a million houses destroyed in the immediate
earthquake area.
And then as you get away from there, you can actually up the cash value of the damage as
it reaches Tokyo and the sort of damage that it would do there.
Now before we just get into what the effect of that would be on the financial world, that
is the main threat.
There is a second threat and that is directly below Tokyo itself.
The scary thing about that is that nobody really knows exactly what's down there.
I spoke to one of Japan's senior seismologists.
He's actually an advisor to the Prime Minister, or was until he resigned because he was so sick of the way that the politicians were handling this thing.
And he said to me, what is underneath Tokyo is like a big black box.
We just do not know what's under there.
And historically, there have been earthquakes which have taken place directly below the capital.
And these have had extensive damage in sort of localized areas.
But of course, now we're talking about Tokyo as the third financial city of the world, after New York and London.
Of course!
Yeah, so I mean, what damage was done in the 19th century was localized, caused a few fires in what was then a very backward country.
Now, if the same thing happens, we are talking about major damage, not just to Japan, but to the financial markets of the world.
Digressing for just a moment, there was an earthquake in northern Japan, a pretty big one, not very long ago.
And my recollection is the Japanese engineers had been for some time bragging that the building, the way they built their buildings, they would survive an earthquake without a problem.
And my recollection is that this earthquake brought down a majority of those buildings.
Yeah, well, that's absolutely right.
There has been a lot of bragging.
One of my best friends actually is a professor of geology engineering at Tokyo University, and I was actually speaking at a seminar with him at the United Nations University not so long ago after the Kobe earthquake.
Now, before the Kobe earthquake, he had told me I was exaggerating the problem, and when I saw him at Kobe, I said, well, I did tell you, you know, there were going to be problems.
He said, you know, we feel humble now.
We engineers, we've been humbled by this experience at Kobe.
As you mentioned, there were several earthquakes, actually, in the north of Japan, so I'm not sure which one you're referring to.
It was the main Kobe quake I was referring to.
Oh, it was the Kobe quake, yeah, so that's central Japan.
Every earthquake that's happened, they have discovered something new, and one of the things I said in the book was that You know, the next major earthquake, which of course, you know, we're looking primarily in the Tokyo area, but the whole of Japan is subject to these quakes.
The next major earthquake, we are going to find certain problems.
One of them is that there is a lot of sloppiness in building here.
It's called in Japanese, tenuki, and it's a kind of shoddy construction work.
Now, you get it in a lot of countries, but especially in Japan.
You saw in Turkey recently, that was a very big thing over there.
Well, exactly the same thing happens here because the construction industry and politics is very corrupt.
And a lot of shoddy construction work goes on.
And I said, you're going to find this.
When there's a major earthquake, you're going to see this.
And sure enough, that's exactly what happened at Kobe.
And Kobe was how big of a quake?
That was a 7.2. 7.2?
Slightly bigger than the one that you had in Nevada.
So then, if we were to imagine an earthquake either west of Tokyo or beneath Tokyo in the
8.1 range, that would be roughly 10 times...
Is that correct?
Ten times?
The Richter scale goes up for every one in value.
The size of the quake is 30 times.
30 times?
So we would be looking at a quake that would be in the region of about 25 times larger than Kobe.
25 times larger than Kobe that brought down these impossible to bring down buildings.
So then honestly, Peter, as a geologist and living there, if a quake of that magnitude occurred, What would happen to Tokyo and or the industrial area west of Tokyo?
Well, the industrial area west of Tokyo would be more or less obliterated.
I mean, not just by the shaking, but this earthquake is expected in a place called Tsuruga Bay, and anybody who wants to look at that in a map will be able to see that this is a bay which is fringed by industry, and that would cause a massive tsunami, sort of tidal wave, which would wash
into most of the cities on the fringe of that bay.
The third problem would be fires because earthquakes always generate fires in Japan where we've
got a lot of wooden buildings that are not fireproofed.
Yes, I'm familiar with a lot of the construction there.
A lot of people in the audience probably will say, and I know it's wrong, but who cares?
I mean that's Tokyo and we're always hearing about earthquakes in India or in Greece or you know wherever the latest earthquake is and people get pretty hardened to the news and it's kind of like well it's on the other side of the world so I don't exactly want to say people say who cares but They don't pay a hell of a lot of attention to it, to be honest with you.
Yeah, there is an expression in Japanese which means, basically, the fire on the other side of the river.
And there is exactly this attitude here, I think, as there is in most countries.
You know, if a fire's on the other side of the river, it's interesting to watch, but it doesn't actually affect you.
And this is certainly not going to be the case with this one, though.
Why?
I mean, if we are talking about major damage to the heartland, industrial heartland of Admittedly, the damage to Tokyo from that particular earthquake may not be extensive.
There will certainly be a lot of shaking, a lot of physical damage, but it's not going to exactly devastate Tokyo.
But it will cause financial implications.
And if I can just run you through the scenario, I've spoken to a lot of economists and people who work in banks who've sort of looked at this problem.
What would happen is that the Japanese, despite the fact that this is a country still in the deep recession, are still the world's major creditors.
Now you mustn't forget that.
This country has huge trade surpluses and it's reinvesting all that money, all the cash surpluses it has from its exports is being reinvested and re-plowed into Things like the American stock market, the U.S.
bond market.
I mean, at one time, the Japanese were buying up a third of U.S.
treasuries at auction.
No recall.
Yeah.
And they've also been very heavily into the Canadian bond market, European stocks, and not to mention, of course, direct investment.
Now, the situation is, if there was major damage back home, this is primarily not insured.
And it was absolutely fascinating to go into the ins and out of insurance here, because Companies cannot legally get insurance in Japan against earthquakes.
It's a rather weird situation, but the payoff will be so enormous that the Japanese companies just couldn't afford it.
So those that can have been trying to take insurance out overseas, but whatever the case, there will be a massive infusion of cash to rebuild not just property and factories, get the infrastructure going again, But just in life insurance payouts, I mean, we are talking about tens of thousands of people losing their lives.
The amount of cash that people will need from the banks and so on will be huge.
It will not necessarily mean that the Japanese will repatriate their cash from overseas, but it will certainly slow down the amount that they're sending overseas.
Now, if you follow on from that, if the Japanese are no longer buying treasury bonds, or they're buying it at only half the rate they used to, and they're not in the stock markets anymore, You're going to see interest rates going up as bond prices collapse and, of course, stock prices will stall.
When I researched the book, the situation was reversed to what it is today.
The Japanese stock market was booming and the U.S.
was in the doldrums.
Now, of course, the situation has been reversed, so the impact may not be as great, but I certainly think that it needs a very close look from securities companies and banks in the West What would be the implications of that if it happened now?
Well, if they wanted to suddenly recall or repatriate, and you can't certainly rule that out, they would need the cash.
So they might sell bonds, sell stocks, do whatever they had to do to get themselves back in business.
You couldn't blame them for that.
And they've got a hell of a lot of money here, so that could torch off a global recession or worse.
Yes, certainly when I looked at this in the early 80s and based on a study that had been done by a bank here called the Tokai Bank, they had prepared figures which showed basically a world recession resulting from this.
Now, I can't remember offhand the period of time, but we were looking at Six years before the world could recover from that kind of a catastrophe.
People don't seem to recognize the fact that we are profoundly tied to Japan economically, and in fact to the rest of the world, certainly to Europe as well, and a disaster of that proportion anywhere could affect the entire world, and people just somehow, you know, they sit comfy at home and they don't think about that.
No, I think, funnily enough, even the Japanese try not to think about it.
There's something called the earthquake mentality.
As anybody in the West Coast will tell you, I think people that experience San Francisco or Northridge, how prepared are they today?
They may have been through this in San Francisco's case 10 years ago.
But people tend to forget very quickly, and the same in Japan.
It's something that you don't dwell on too much.
Well, I think it's a protective thing in our brains, Peter.
When it happens, it scares you so badly.
Even if it occurs to you, it scares you so badly.
But your brain, after a while, begins to fade a bad memory to protect itself.
And I think that's what's at work here.
We've got a break here at the bottom of the hour, and we'll be right back.
Stay there, Peter.
Okay.
Peter Hatfield.
You've probably heard him on ABC.
A Tokyo freelance reporter who's written a book called Sixty Seconds.
That's about all it takes that will change the world.
Now maybe you know why.
we'll be right back it's a burning thing
and it's made uh... fire
uh...
there are few rides really don't want to take Want to take a ride?
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This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
Obviously, I could not resist this bumper music as I sort of lay the music of the millennium on you.
Lest you forget, what if it all changed at the moment of the millennium?
One thing that will change things quickly is an earthquake, and that's what we're talking about.
One in Tokyo.
Why would that affect us?
Keep listening.
Once again, you've probably heard him on ABC News or reporting, or you've read some of his columns in various newspapers.
Peter Hatfield is my guest, and he's here from Tokyo, Japan, and we're about to bring him back online, but I just want to read one quick paragraph from an article which appeared in The Nation by Aline Miyoko Smith and C. Douglas Loomis, and it begins this way, Dateline Tokyo.
Legend has it that there is a giant catfish buried deep in the sand beneath the Japanese islands who occasionally shifts and
changes positions.
When that happens, the earth shakes and spits, rocks roll down the mountain tops,
and the fragile constructions of human beings collapse.
People used to say that the ever-present danger of earthquakes here in Tokyo and Japan
contributed to the Japanese thinking of all things.
We were talking about that a moment ago, but then it goes on.
Who would have thought they would build 48, now 52, nuclear power plants on the back of the catfish?
Peter?
Yeah, kind of worrying, isn't it?
One of the biggest worries of that, of course, is that we just don't know how safe those power plants are, because there is such a tradition of secrecy in this country.
It's very difficult to get access to information about just how well things have been built.
They make assurances that the power plants, of course, are safe, but having seen what happened at Tokaimura, where they had that critical reaction happen, Because they were mixing up uranium with buckets and so on.
I mean, it just beggars belief, but that sort of thing does happen.
I really would like to take a moment out to discuss that aspect of it, because I was living very close to Three Mile Island, and I remember the assurances on radio and television right away that, oh, don't worry, nothing has leaked, there's a problem, but the public should not be concerned, that everything's under control, everything's okay.
Well, it wasn't okay.
And they just flat out lied for a while.
I'm not saying the press did, but the people issuing the releases to the press certainly did for a while.
I guess they don't want panic, but on the other hand, if there's going to be a problem with a nuclear plant and you're about to be irradiated, you've got a right to know, it seems to me.
Yeah, that's right.
Unfortunately, there's no such thing as a right to know here.
It's one of the big battles that's now taking place in Japan about When citizens want information, do they have a right to go to the government and get it?
And now a lot of the courts are beginning to say, yeah, we should have an openness policy and free flow of information.
But it's not a tradition here the same way that it is in the states.
In other words, it's not part of their constitution?
It's not part of the constitution.
There's no Freedom of Information Act, for example.
However unworkable that actually turns out to be in practice, as I've learned from uh... experience of friends but in japan and there's there
isn't even a starting point on that
uh... so yes we do have assurances from the government that these plants will be
unsafe but the public is now getting more and more disillusioned about
uh...
you know sure to come from the government on nuclear issues because
the government has its own agenda here uh... it wants to promote nuclear energy as japan's future
power source well gee it sounds like the japanese really are becoming
americanized in that regard anyway well i i guess i mean in the states you have alternative
sources at least like oil They don't have that here, and they see that as a huge problem.
I mean, you know, the answer perhaps should be freer trade, but the Japanese have still the kind of mentality, the island mentality, that they have to be self-sufficient.
They've got to be self-sufficient in rice, they have to be self-sufficient in energy.
So they have this goal, and because they've got this goal, they find it very difficult Give out information which might lead people to think that the nuclear industry here is not safe.
Well, you certainly would think with the history that Japan has at the end of the Second World War, their attitude about freedom of information regarding things nuclear would be a little bit different.
But in fact, during the incident you just described, the reporting was woefully... What would be the right word?
Inadequate.
Inadequate, certainly.
Well, I remember well because I was up all night reporting on it myself and trying to get information was extremely difficult.
What were they telling you?
Well, we were getting this in dribs and drabs.
You know, it was coming in bits and pieces at first, that there was an accident, but there was nothing to worry about, that it had all calmed down.
And I forget the chronology now.
I started, I was reporting on this from 3 o'clock in the afternoon when it first started, right through till 8 o'clock the following morning, and I got an hour's break, and then I kept going till noon.
And so the whole kind of chronology has blurred in my mind, but I do remember that Nothing was really taken seriously until the evening at about nine o'clock in the evening, eight hours after the accident happened, when the Prime Minister admitted, yeah, we have a problem.
And they decided to call for American help.
But prior to that, they had been saying that the whole thing was under control, and they were going to put this thing out very soon.
Well, over here, Peter, I don't know whether you caught a lot of the coverage.
I'm sure that the network sort of back-fed it to you.
Here, all of a sudden, the American President went on television and seemed very somber, and when he first announced it, it sounded really awful.
It sounded like Japan had a, in fact he said it, some sort of very serious potential tragedy underway.
Well, that was the impression we were getting, and you know, one of the problems is that where you have a vacuum of information, there is an awful lot that can fill that vacuum.
That's right.
You know, we now know that, for example, there was no danger of a meltdown of any kind, but that was certainly not the case on that particular evening.
There was speculation that this could result in a meltdown.
that it could be potentially very serious and i took it as serious because
the japanese had never ever applied for american help in any kind of disaster
uh... they didn't apply for american help in the colby earthquake or when a
and uh... uh... jumbo jet crashed in in i think i did five uh... when they could have asked americans to step in
and quite easily use their helicopters and other strategic uh...
facilities that they had to rescue people at they didn't do that then and so for them suddenly to do
this over this nuclear accident i gave it a new perspective and uh... we were
certainly worried when we did see the expression on that
the president's face precisely and and i thought oh god you know if he's saying
that now right out of the box then it's probably even worse than
we think fortunately i guess
it did get under it did get under control than that it did eventually and it was very difficult to know exactly
how they were doing it because we were getting reports that uh...
uh... they were going to uh... take away the cooling water and that would
uh... stop or slow down the uh... the fission reaction
Now it was very difficult at first to see how that would happen because the danger was of course you take away the cooling water, you know, would the thing overheat?
But it wasn't until the following day when we had a detailed explanation at a news conference as to how that worked that it became quite obvious.
You know, I write a lot of science and so I understand exactly how fission, nuclear fission works.
But at the time it certainly wasn't clear and I think one of the troubles is if the government doesn't give you enough information, a lot of stuff is going to fill that vacuum and a lot of it is going to be wrong.
Well Peter, if there are, and I know Japan is primarily dependent on atomic power, If there were to be an 8.1 earthquake in the areas you've talked about, what effect, if any, do you feel there might be on nuclear power plants?
Well, yeah, I hate to give you an I-don't-know answer, but that is, I'm afraid, the answer.
I just don't know.
It was one of the things I looked at in the book, and it was one of the few occasions when I just came up against a brick wall.
You know, you've got these assurances.
You want to see the plans?
No, they can't give you the plans.
You want to talk to people who might have been involved in the construction?
Nobody is talking.
You know, it may not be a problem.
It is just the traditional way that things are done here, this great wall of silence.
What I can tell you is that in the earthquake zone itself, I believe there are just two, maybe three nuclear power plants.
I can't remember the number, but it's not that many.
But of course, it doesn't take that many.
No, it doesn't.
It's a problem.
No, no.
There's something about horseshoes and atom bombs.
You know, close counts, I think.
Anyway, here's another question for you.
And that is, we know in California, we are expecting the big one.
And they say, every so many years, it probably is going to happen.
With respect to the faults that we've been talking about near Tokyo, are they Are they overdue?
Is it 100 years away that we should be worried?
Is it any minute?
Are we overdue?
What's the situation?
OK, let me start by saying we do hear this so often from geologists that, oh, an earthquake's overdue.
And people get very complacent because they think, well, they've been warning about this for years.
So let me just take a couple of minutes to explain the situation that I think people will get a much better understanding of why we know this is going to happen.
A ruler, for example, and you put the end of the ruler over the desk and you put your hand on the ruler and bend it down, you can keep bending that ruler down until it's either going to snap or it's going to spring back up.
That's right.
Now, we've got a very similar situation here.
We've got this huge crustal plate called the Pacific Sea Plate, which is under the ocean.
And this part of the Earth's crust is diving down underneath the Japanese mainland.
And as it does so, it's pulling the edge of the Japanese mainland down with it, rather like you're bending that ruler down.
Now, there's no way that the edge of the Japanese mainland is going to sort of crack and break off.
The only alternative, of course, is that it's going to spring back up.
Now, they know from the past geological record that at this particular area where the two plates are coming together, every 122 years or something like that, The springing back occurs.
It springs back up, then it gets dragged down gradually over the next 122 years, then it springs back up again.
Now this has been a very familiar pattern for millions of years, and the last time this happened was in 1854.
Since then, of course, we have built a massive industrial zone in this area, but the earth does not stop moving simply because man decides to put the third largest financial capital And the third largest industrial area of the world on top of it.
That's right.
The plates are still moving.
And according to the usual pattern, they are now overdue for a massive earthquake.
And the longer you leave it, the worse it's going to be.
Now, just to give you a very visual example of this, they are actually measuring the amount
by which that crust is moving down into the Earth's mantle.
So it's not just a theory.
This is measured year by year.
They are measuring the strain and the stress that is on this part of the Earth's crust,
and they can measure it getting bigger year by year.
So the idea that, well, they warned about this, I think, 20 years ago was the first warning,
and it still hasn't happened, is absolute nonsense.
I've heard Japanese politicians, I was speaking to a cabinet minister, who
said exactly that to me.
He said, well, they warned about this 20 years ago, and it hasn't happened yet.
And boy, you know, I mean, if people don't look at their history, they're
bound to repeat the mistakes of history.
Phew. Um...
So in other words, it's a worn phrase, but they are, you are overdue.
We are overdue.
And that has meaning to it.
It's not an empty phrase.
It could happen at any time.
And I know that I hear this all the time.
And I, to be honest, I myself did not take much notice of all these warnings that New York's overdue for an earthquake, Los Angeles is overdue for an earthquake, Tokyo's overdue for an earthquake, until I've actually seen this thing in seismometers and graphs and so on, and I know that it is happening.
It has got to be taken seriously.
I will add one other thing.
We were talking about the effect on Tokyo.
Historically, and if you look at the historical record, which is the best reflection of how these earthquakes happen, when there has been a major earthquake at Saruga Bay, It is nearly always followed by a period of intense seismic activity underneath Tokyo itself.
Because, as we've seen in Tokyo, one earthquake will shift the crust and that begets another earthquake.
And historically, when you do have the major earthquake at Tsuruga Bay, you tend to have about 20 years of earthquakes underneath Tokyo itself.
and the last time this happened there were eleven very large earthquakes under
tokyo uh... which uh... shook uh... parts of the city and caused
a lot of damage so uh... you know that the worrying thing is that once this
happens and people understand the pattern
uh... just as they are doing now in istanbul they're very concerned now
that this earthquake is going to hit what will be the psychological impact on tokyo are people
going to start pulling their money out they're going to be moving out they're
gonna they're gonna anticipate the financial consequences of this
uh... the whole psychological game here uh... you know the way the bond markets
and the stock markets work of you know how
your neighbor is going to react to anything is as important to uh... you
know how earnings growth is and so on so uh... the kind of reaction
the psychological reaction psychological pressure will be very important once people really understand what's
going to happen here i take it that even if you were almost a
hundred percent sure that something like this was about to occur
You would remain there in Tokyo and you would report on this?
Oh, absolutely, yeah.
I actually, I had the head of one of the wire services here come to me the other day and said, look, we've got to have lunch sometime and you should tell me what plans I should be implementing for covering this quake.
Because it's not a question of, you know, if it's going to happen, it's a question of when.
And I have my plans already for coverage, and it possibly involves a boat trip, because it's going to be very difficult to get down to the epicenter by land.
And those who are prepared will probably cover it best.
Oh, so you've actually then given it really serious thought.
Oh, everybody here has.
I don't think I've met a correspondent here who hasn't, you know, in some way prepared for this.
And, I mean, certainly it's one of the stories I expect to be covering during my time here.
I have got that Well prepared.
I've spoken to a lot of the people I work for about this, and we've discussed eventualities for when it happens.
Here's an interesting question for you.
If, Peter, they had an actual way to more or less forecast this, if they knew it was coming, do you think they would tell the people?
In fact, they have exactly that plan in place, but it's a very dubious plan.
The idea is that this area around Saruga Bay is the most closely monitored part of the world anywhere seismologically.
I mean, much more so even than Los Angeles.
They have millions of dollars worth of equipment in a ring around this.
It's buried under the sea, it's on land, and what they're trying to do is measure the minutest movement that would suggest that this area is uplifting.
Now, they're doing this because two past earthquakes Suggest, and it's only a suggestion, that there is an uplift two to three days prior to the earthquake.
And as soon as they detect that uplift, they have an emergency plan all well prepared.
They have six senior seismologists who would be rushed by police car down to the meteorological agency in Tokyo.
They would have an emergency meeting.
They would decide if the signs are warranted to issue a warning to the Prime Minister.
They would tell the Prime Minister, he would issue a warning to the nation, and the entire area would be evacuated.
But in the end, Peter, it would be a political decision at the top, right?
This is the worrying thing, and as you know only too well, political decisions are motivated by politics.
Yeah, I've asked a lot of people about this.
Supposing that we weren't too sure what the signs were, I mean, supposing there was a possibility of an earthquake, but it wasn't very clear, would the Prime Minister issue that warning?
There's no certainty that he would.
And in fact, it's even dubious that they can predict it.
No earthquake has really been properly predicted.
that there have been some claims by her you are a dot peter hold on we're gonna
break here again at the top of the hour rest a little bit will be right back to
you peter hadfield who are sure you've heard on a bc and read in local papers and national papers is my guest
He's in Tokyo, Japan.
Falling in love was the last thing I had on my mind.
Holding you was the warmth that I thought I could never find.
you.
I put down the feeling I'm high on the reason
That you're in love with me Rich and sweet
Its taste is on my mind.
It's a taste that's on my mind.
Girl, you got me thirsty for another cup of wine.
Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from Western the Rockies at 1-800-9-4.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
To reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye.
Indeed so, and my guest is Peter Hatfield, who wrote 60 Seconds That Will Change the World.
He's in Tokyo, Japan, and he's talking about Tokyo, and I have a few more questions, and then for the balance of the hour, I'd like to turn The microphone over to you.
Let you ask him questions.
He's been in Tokyo, I guess, for some time now.
In fact, we'll find out.
I've got a couple of more, but if you have a question, those are the phone numbers.
Feel free to call in and I'll get you on the air with Peter in Tokyo.
In the meantime, we'll do this.
Okay, we are going to in a moment open the phone lines for Peter Hetfield in Tokyo
and allow you to ask whatever you would like to ask.
But it should be obvious, from what he has said, that even today, with our market sort of in a present, at least, up condition, and the Japanese economy in recession, that should there be an earthquake, the economic A devastation would not be only in Japan.
By a large degree, it could send the entire world into a tailspin economically.
We're on pretty shaky ground, as it is anyway.
Peter, a couple of questions for you.
One is, somebody writes, since Mount Fuji is so near the expected epicenter of this quake, Is it not possible there could be a major eruption of that mountain?
In other words, if you've got geology moving like crazy under the Earth, would that be something to be concerned about?
It's not actually too far off.
Mount Fuji sits on top of the fault, and it's a rather complicated fault because it comes inland, whereas most of these faults where you get ocean plates diving underneath crustal plates, normally these are far out to sea.
But we have a very complex geology here.
And an island, basically, which is floating on top of this crustal plate has crashed up against the Japanese mainland and really brought this whole fault line inland.
And it sits directly underneath Mount Fuji.
Now, that's one problem.
The other problem is that Mount Fuji is due for an eruption anyway.
And I can't say I know an awful lot about the volcanism there.
The only volcano that I know is tied into the The other earthquake zone that we're looking at is at a
place called Oshima, which is an island just offshore, which is a volcanic island.
That did explode in 1986.
That has some bearing on the tectonic activity or the seismic activity in Suruga Bay, but
no one is exactly sure what it is.
Likewise with Fuji, it can't be ruled out.
I haven't seen any theories that tie those in, but they're in the same basic plate boundary
area.
It's just that the geology is a bit too vague to really know how they interact.
Well, here's an obvious question you cannot answer, and that is, do you expect something of this magnitude or sort could occur in the next year, five years, ten years, hundred years?
Oh yeah, absolutely.
How far out?
Oh, I was actually expecting it a couple of years back because there is an earthquake in Ottawara which runs a lot more on a A sort of like clockwork.
It runs every 71.5 years, give or take a year.
And I was expecting, because that one was expected in about 1995-96, that that normally does trigger the Saruga Quake.
So I would have expected that.
But this is a game that's very difficult to play, making these kind of predictions.
I would not be the least bit surprised if we look back and the... If you put me in a, let's say in a time capsule, and put me forward twenty years from now and I looked at all the newspapers and discovered there had been an earthquake in December 1999.
I wouldn't have been the least bit surprised.
You know, it could be this month or it could be two years from now.
The only thing I do know is the longer we leave it, of course, the worse it's going to be.
We live anyway in a very strange time where weather patterns appear to be changing and all sorts of strange
things are occurring.
I suppose that's all mixed up with the millennium.
I want to ask you one more question, and that is, since you're a reporter, since you're in Tokyo,
I'm rather curious what the talk is there about Y2K.
Here it ranges from the catastrophic to the big yawn.
What are they thinking in Japan about Y2K?
They were worried about it because the Japanese were very late in catching up to this Y2K problem.
One of the problems is here we have a different dating system in Japan The dates run according to the year of the Emperor's reign.
So actually, we are in year 11, Heisei 11, which is the 11th year of the Emperor's current reign.
And I was born, for example, in Showa 29, the 29th year of Emperor Hirohito's reign.
And a lot of lawmakers, you know, the people who supposedly run this country and are supposed to know these things, said, well, we handled the transition from Showa to Heisei when the old Emperor died.
There shouldn't be a problem, you know, handling this transition into the year 2000.
They really don't have much of an idea, but Japan, late in the day, caught up to it, and earlier this year, late last year, earlier this year, they really started tackling the problem.
They believe they've got it under control, but there is no, as I've mentioned before, no sort of tradition of openness as there is in the US, so it's difficult to know.
I can tell you that the trains are planning to stop running Just before midnight, and pull into the nearest station, just in case there is a problem.
The airlines are not flying, and they're taking all kinds of... Excuse me, you said the airlines are not going to fly?
Yes, three of Japan's major airlines are not going to be flying on that day, just as a precaution.
Not because they believe that they have problems, but because they just want to be absolutely sure there are not going to be any problems.
Have you heard the method they're using in mainland China?
No, but nothing would surprise me.
Tell me.
Well, this may interest you, Peter.
In mainland China, the government has mandated, and you know, they don't ask, they don't request, they simply mandate, that all airline executives will be in the air, on an airplane, December 31st at midnight.
Yes, sorry.
I believe I've heard about this, yes.
Interesting.
Maybe that should be a requirement for every company that is operating computers.
Actually, there's another one.
I don't want to digress too far, but Taiwan, I don't know if you've heard how a hospital there is coping with it.
They put all their computers back four years.
And all of their medical records now are four years out of date.
Everything is four years out of date, but they figure when the new year rolls around, they're not going to be in any problem whatsoever.
They're going to have to deal with it in 2004, by which time they reckon they're going to update their systems.
I see.
I see.
Well, it's going to be an interesting time.
Are you going to be reporting for ABC and the various networks on what's going on in Tokyo on that night?
I will be.
I don't want to take your audience away from you, but if anyone is listening to ABC News, we are going to have round-the-world coverage, and I will be reporting on a phone among a crowd of Japanese and hopefully some Americans who are celebrating the New Year as the clock strikes midnight here, which will be 10 o'clock in the morning your time.
10 o'clock in the morning.
So, we're going to get to see this thing.
A swing around the world.
I guess it begins somewhere in the Marshall Islands or something out in the middle of the Pacific?
Yes, or whichever dateline you care to pick, with all these islands that are arguing about where it should be.
Tokyo is going to be one of the first big cities to be hit.
Sydney, of course, will be an hour ahead of us.
but then uh... tokyo will be next and will be very soon to see
you know what happens here i'll tell you one thing uh... i don't know if you know
people have the impression this is a very technologically advanced country
alliance hate to disillusion you put it and uh... they are very ill-prepared
or they were very ill-prepared for why to carry along the lines of i mentioned
uh... but there is also uh... you know a lack of computerization in this country
which is quite frightening Well, let me try and understand something.
Although they use dates, as you suggested by the length of The Last Emperor's Reign or whatever, actually, their PCs aren't any different than ours, really, are they?
In other words, they still keep dates in PCs the way we do.
That's right, absolutely, they do.
And in fact, up until a few years ago, NEC, which is the largest computer company here, had a real lock on the market, had its own software system and it was not compatible with PCs in the States.
They've come around now to making that compatible, so virtually they're indistinguishable.
I actually run off a Japanese computer because it's useful for me because you can print out Japanese writing on it, but they're now lock and step with the U.S.
system.
That's absolutely fascinating.
You can print it.
Katakani or Kanji?
Well, they've got three different types.
They've got Hiragana and Katakana, which are the easier ones, the syllabaries, and then the Kanji, which is the import from China, which is the more difficult one.
I am by no means an expert, but you can't get by in this country without at least recognizing about 500 That's right.
I remember I learned out of necessity because I would have starved to death and had a burst bladder had I not begun to learn.
All right, I want to put you on the line with a couple of people from this country.
Right.
So let's try it.
Bearing in mind, folks, there is a delay between here and Japan, obviously, so you need to sort of ask your question and then we'll get the answer from Peter.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Peter Hadfield in Tokyo.
Hello.
Peter, Art, how do you do?
Tim from Cold Lake Canada.
My favorite subject, earthquakes.
I've been listening to Art Bell for four years and got turned on to all his links on earthquake sites.
And I've been monitoring them closely the last four years and just amazed at the frequency of activity that's been going on in the last, oh, maybe three, four months.
And especially Japan, that region that's just like, it's filling the charts with all these small ones and the occasional larger one.
You were talking earlier, Peter, about subduction and subversion zones?
Yeah, subduction zone, that's right.
Subduction, okay.
I was born and raised in Vancouver Island, and that's another one.
As a matter of fact, 300 years ago, Japan's rice crop was totally taken out one bright morning when a tsunami rolled in from the west coast of the United States and British Columbia that suffered a major earthquake.
That snot, large trees, you know the big trees on the west coast?
Snap them off at levels of four or five feet high.
There's a documentary now.
It's out by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.
The witness program.
It's called Vancouver.
I don't know.
What's it called?
It's called Vancouver on the Fault Line.
And it was this investigation done by geologists about four years ago that was substantiated basically by El Nino when these big waves came up.
This El Nino, what, two years ago now?
It came up and washed away a lot of erosion along the Oregon coastline that uncovered these trees That were not petrified, but you know, they were preserved that were snapped off along the coast, like on the beaches, which showed that before the snap, like you were just explaining about the rule on the table, before the snap where the plate released and the ground went up and then came back to settle actually lower, there was coastline lost, that these trees were actually snapped at that moment of the earthquake and then the land dropped to bury these things underwater and then eventually under sand and
Do you have a specific question, sir?
Yes, subversion and subduction.
I'm kind of confused about that.
I've read, sometimes they seem like the same, but at other times they get different explanations.
All right, well let's get the one that Peter gives up.
Yeah, I mean, I use the term subduction, and subduction has a very distinct meaning of one crustal plate going underneath another.
This term subversion, I don't know in the geological sense.
Of course, I know what subversion means.
I don't know it used, you know, tectonically.
And there is also something which sounds very similar to what you've got, which is a kind of sedimentary slump.
And, you know, the tsunami, the tidal waves that can go right across whole oceans because waves are very efficient energy-generating or energy-preserving systems.
About 100,000 years ago, they now reckon, if they're looking at the fringe of the Pacific Ocean, they reckon that there was a massive slump of sediment off the coast of the Big Island of Hawaii because of the buildup of volcanic debris from the volcano there.
As that slumped down into the ocean, it caused a massive tidal wave which went right across the Pacific.
But more recently, the most devastating earthquake to hit Japan this century, in terms of loss of life outside of the one in 1923, was a 1960 earthquake in Chile.
It didn't actually even occur in Japan, it occurred in Chile, but it sent a massive great tsunami tidal wave across the Pacific, and it swamped the entire Japanese east coast right from the north to the south.
And I forget the figures for how many people were killed, but it was in the thousands.
Now, you see, it's interesting, Peter, because that's just a massive tragedy, and you know what?
Until you just now mentioned it, I didn't even know it occurred.
I didn't even know that happened, and so it shows you the way the reporting goes, or the lack of it, just because it involves a foreign country or two, is simply not reported.
You're a media person.
How do you account for this?
There is a rule of thumb in the media about what gets reported.
Obviously, anything in the States would get reported in an American media organization much more than if it had happened in the middle of Central Asia or somewhere.
It's distance from home, it's connections with the country, it's the number of people killed, you know, so many factors go into it.
But I'm afraid that is just driven by demand because, you know, unfortunately, you know, it's the case.
Americans would read about a train wreck that killed 10 people on the front page of their newspaper, but they would not want to read or not have that sort of prominence given to the same sort of story.
If it had happened in another country, which perhaps I'd never even heard of.
So we, despite pleadings of some organizations, we really don't think globally, do we?
That's the problem.
It's the reader's choice.
You know, readers demanded that they should be given this information.
I tell you, the media organizations would very quickly comply, because we live in a market-oriented society, and that demand would be very quickly filled.
Yeah, it is a shame that that kind of thing is not done.
But it brings me on to another point.
Hold the point.
We'll be right back.
I'm Art Bell.
I'm a musician.
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Shots of complaints lay dead to skin.
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But the hint in there she leads you to.
These days, she says, I feel my life just like the rest.
For I'm into the air of the camp.
to recharge well in the kingdom of nigh from west of the rocky
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
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This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
It is indeed.
Peter Hatfield from Tokyo, Japan is with us.
And he's written a book that you might want to go check out on Amazon.com.
Or simply go down to your bookstore and buy.
60 seconds that will change the world.
We'll ask Peter in a moment how you get his book, but get it you should.
I'll tell you why in a moment.
I like this sax so much I just can't walk on it.
Anyway, we'll get back to Peter in a moment.
I am Art Bell, and this, of course, is Coast to Coast AM in the middle of the night, moving like a freight train through the night.
All right, I have been asked to make this programming note for my listeners in Las Vegas, Nevada.
The station we're on there now Which is 105.1 Hot Talk is about to be 105.1 Spanish speaking.
And so a lot of people are wondering where we're going to be.
I'll tell you where we're going to be.
We're going to be on KXMT 840 on the AM dial.
If we're not there already, within the next day or so, we will be.
So that's the deal.
And I'm sure 105.1 would not mind my mentioning this since they're going Spanish anyway.
We're moving immediately, without missing a beat, over to 840 AM KSNT.
So if you're in Las Vegas, please make note of that fact.
In the meantime, back to Tokyo, Japan, and Peter Hadfield.
And Peter, somebody I respect very much, just wrote to me that he just saw a documentary on the Discovery Channel.
And in this documentary, it chronicled what exactly would occur to the U.S.
economy Should there be an earthquake of exactly the sort you've been describing tonight?
And my friend says it was not good news at all.
All the money Japan has invested in the U.S.
would, according to this documentary, be pulled back to Japan to help with the rebuilding, and that it would virtually ruin the U.S.
economy.
I don't know what documentary that was.
I have a suspicion it might have been one that I was involved in.
I'd been involved in quite a few, but people keep saying I pop up on television every now and again and in unexpected places.
Yeah, I mean, you know, we've got to be careful if that is using the same information.
In other words, if that's getting the information from my book, then what you've got there is not two different sources telling you the same thing.
You've still got just one source.
But I guess it just reinforces the message.
I'm glad that people are taking that seriously enough to at least take a look at it and consider it.
Yes, precisely.
All right.
Your book, Sixty Seconds that Will Change the World, is available roughly where?
It's getting a bit sort of out of print now, I think.
It was originally published in 91.
And then it was revised.
We had a completely new revised edition in 1995 after the Kobe quake, so that would have hit the bookshelves in that year.
But it did rather well, and I think most bookstores would have run out of copies within about two or three years.
You can, I know, get it on Amazon.com, and you can, I believe, get it if you order it.
So if you can't get it through the Internet, go to the Your local bookshop and order it, and the publisher is Charles Tuttle in the U.S.
That's Tuttle, T-U-T-T-L-E.
Charles Tuttle, all right, that'll help.
Most bookstores you can walk in, they've got a database, at least until the first of the year, and they can call it up and it's there in just a few days.
Yeah, and the information is still very current, so I would hope that bookstores would still be stocking it.
I think they put it under obscure sections because, you know, they were never quite sure what to make of it.
Is this a book about geology?
Is this a book about finance or what?
I always told the Japanese, this is a book about democracy and what happens if you don't check what your own government is doing and the kind of preparations it's making on your behalf.
Well, here's one for you.
The Japanese, at the inception of the Second World War, were an extremely homogenous people.
They still are to some degree, but there's been a very great change socially in Japan.
Companies no longer guarantee work for life, that sort of thing.
Yeah.
And there's social changes going on in Japan.
So at one time, one would have imagined the Japanese to handle a catastrophe like that in a rather orderly fashion, which was their nature.
If that kind of catastrophe occurred today, what do you think The social repercussions would be?
Well, they haven't changed as dramatically.
I think it's going to take another 20 years before the social change that has started in the 1990s, and you're perfectly correct.
You know, you're looking at, for example, lifetime employment.
There's a huge social change going underway, but it's got to work its way through the system.
There is still very much, this country is a people who are very orderly, who follow orders, follow instructions.
Leave things very much to the people in charge and assume that they know what they're doing and take their orders from them.
But this has a big downside in a catastrophe like this, and it's very much shown up by what happened in San Francisco in 1989 and what happened in Colby in 1995.
When I was watching pictures of the San Francisco earthquake, I was very impressed with the way that ordinary citizens were You know, getting hold of buckets of water to put out fires.
I saw a guy shouting out instructions to people, turn off your gas.
People were directing traffic.
These were not, you know, firefighters or policemen.
These were ordinary citizens who took charge and organized themselves.
Now, one of the problems in Japan, and it's by no means racist that they say this, I've spoken to a lot of Japanese friends.
Who are engineers, who are people involved in this kind of business, and they agree with me totally because this is a big fear of theirs, is that ordinary people in a Japanese city in the same situation would not know what to do because they would wait until they were given orders.
They would wait for the firemen to come along to put out a fire unless they happen to be a volunteer for a fire service, in which case they would do what they were trained to do.
And there's a problem here that people are too well trained to do, you know, specific tasks and they don't take on any role outside of that.
Well then here's the question that might get you in trouble.
Has the Japanese government adequately prepared to address this disaster?
Their equivalent over there of FEMA or whatever it is that would go into action with a disaster of this size, are they prepared to handle it?
No.
It's a short answer, and I've said this before, and I've been asked this question before, and I was certainly proven to be right at Colbay, because after the Colbay earthquake, colleagues of mine who had been covering this, you know, when we sat down, you know how journalists are, you know, you're intensely working on a story, but then after it's all over, you sit back and relax, and everyone was saying to me, boy, it's absolutely amazing, it was just the way that you Predicted in the book, and I think the only person who was not surprised was me because I said, yeah, I mean, this is what 15 months of research showed me.
It showed me that exactly what happened at Kobe would occur.
There would be a shortage of water for firefighting.
They would not have the right equipment to get in there and deal with it.
The administration would break down because they're assuming that they can have meetings and administer things and get things organized.
And they can do that during the practice runs because, of course, they're doing that when all the buildings are intact and the telecommunications are up.
But you try doing that after an earthquake when the lines are down, fires everywhere, the building where the town hall might have been has probably collapsed, you can't get to where you need to go because there are traffic jams, and everything breaks down.
And they had not really, you know, figured that one out beforehand.
So it wasn't surprising to me at all that everything happened the way I had expected it to.
And I tell you, it is going to happen again, because they have still not properly prepared.
All right.
Peter Wildcardline, you're on the air with Peter Hatfield in Tokyo, Japan.
Hello.
Hi.
Hi.
My name is Alan.
I'm in Salem, Oregon.
Hi, Alan.
I wanted to ask Peter if he had read anything about Japan being in the Bible codes, the book written by Michael Drozdman.
Yes, there is such a book.
I don't know whether you're aware of it.
No, I'm not.
The Bible Code, and it's basically Michael Drosnin, through years and years of research, decoded the Bible and found that every so many characters, a computer did it, there were predictions that were made within the body of the text of the Bible.
It's very interesting about earth changes and all kinds of things like that, but if you're not familiar with it, you're obviously not going to be able to address it.
But there apparently are references to Japan.
That's interesting, and I'll try and follow up on it, but it's nothing obviously you can comment on.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Peter Hadfield in Tokyo.
Hello.
Hello, Art.
I've got to really say, you're kind of a hard man to get a hold of at times.
Yes, I am.
And my question is, is there a fault line in California that could trigger an earthquake in Japan while also having an earthquake in California?
Well, I think the answer to that, and Peter is the former geologist, and I think once a geologist, always one.
Like riding a bicycle.
Yeah, that's right.
But they don't really directly trigger each other, and yet, Peter, we watch The Ring of Fire, I played that song earlier, and it does seem as though it travels around in a circle.
Let me put a few minds at rest on this.
There is a certain linkage.
One of the interesting things, if you look at the Turkish earthquakes, for example, they have noted the way that the earthquakes have been traveling westwards along this particular fault.
You can see that they are closely linked.
The same thing happens here in Japan where we have the East Coast.
One earthquake which basically shifts a part of the Earth's crust forward will then put
stress on the next fault zone and then that will break and then that will put stress on
the next one.
We're talking a period of years here perhaps as one earthquake triggers another.
Of course, as I mentioned earlier, the possibility that a major earthquake in Tsuruga Bay could
then trigger earthquakes beneath Tokyo.
Now, this is a well-established theory.
This is not just people whistling in the wind.
They've made correlations between this.
Now, the problem is where you get so far away as Japan and California are, that relationship gets so diluted that it really doesn't work.
There is a ring of fire, basically because we have one very large crust called the Pacific Ocean crust, which is taking up most of the Pacific Ocean area.
Parts of Northeast Japan are on this boundary just as California is, but I have to say that because they're so far apart, There isn't the same sort of stress effect as you get when you've got neighboring fault zones.
It's a good question, but there is no linkage.
I have a very good friend, let's see if you subscribe to this, I have a good friend in Fortuna, California, and of course everybody has various ways of trying to predict when an earthquake is going to occur, but he begins to get really worried when he doesn't have small earthquakes.
The Fortuna area is subject to a lot of small quakes that occur offshore, and if a long period of time goes by without Small quakes.
He gets worried about a big one.
Is there some reason to believe that's a good way to think?
Yeah, absolutely.
In fact, I've been hoping that a major earthquake would happen in Saruga Bay because it would take the pressure off a bigger earthquake.
As I mentioned, it's like blowing up a balloon.
Another analogy, and I'm probably making too many of them, but if you want to know how this earthquake happens, If you take a packet of balloons, and they're all different colors, and you blow one up, and it takes 30 puffs of your breath before it bursts, you take the next one, and it may be 30, but it may be 32, it may be 28.
You can't tell exactly when that balloon is going to burst, but you know, roughly speaking, that it's going to burst after about 30.
Now, the bigger it gets, if you get up to 40 and it hasn't burst, you get up to 50 and it hasn't burst, You know it's going to come down with a hell of a bang.
And you would much prefer that the balloon burst after 10 puffs, when it's small, and when the amount of energy is going to be very small.
That would be far better than having these longer periods of very, very large earthquakes.
The order of magnitude must be much like an asteroid hit.
If you've got something the size of your fist, or even a Volkswagen, one thing happens.
If you have something five miles across, it ends all life on Earth.
Yeah, that's right, absolutely.
And the great thing is about the smaller earthquakes, they are dissipating the stress that's being built up.
If you've got one massive crust moving past another, as you have in California, here it's not subducting, it's actually moving past.
They're crunching up against each other, and you want them to keep moving.
You don't want that thing to get stuck, because when it gets stuck, then when it does shift, it's going to be one massive earthquake.
So yeah, these smaller earthquakes do help.
All right.
Very quickly, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Peter Hadfield in Tokyo.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi.
All right.
Yes.
Oh, thank you.
First of all, I didn't know if you'd gotten a copy of the movie Earthquake in New York.
Not yet, and I'm dying to get it.
I've got it.
Bless your heart.
Send it to me.
If I know how to get it to you, a P.O.
Box or something.
All right.
But the other thing is, also, I was in the Northridge earthquake.
Oh, yes?
Believe you me, you know what it's like to be in an earthquake.
We were prepared.
We were trained.
We were in a neighborhood watch group, and we were very well trained.
And?
And we did.
We pulled our resources on our block and in our home neighborhood, and we did come through it okay.
It was frightening.
I mean, four o'clock in the morning.
Oh, I know.
And that was Northridge, indeed.
But, you know, there's a... Depending on the magnitude and the area of destruction of an earthquake, I think you'll get a very different social kind of reaction.
In other words, if you turn on the radio or the television and you realize it's a limited area and there's going to be help for you coming quickly, that's one thing.
If you turn on the radio and you realize that for 150 miles around you, There's nearly total destruction.
That's something else entirely.
And I think you get a different kind of social reaction.
What do you think, Peter?
Yeah, that's right.
You know, one thing about earthquakes is when we talk about Richter magnitudes, they're very deceptive because, of course, you can have a very small Richter magnitude earthquake.
But if you're right on top of it, that will be devastating.
But then you can have a small one far away and you wouldn't even feel it.
Now, one of the interesting things about the earthquake that's expected here is that it is going to be a regional one.
Unlike Northridge and unlike Kobe, they were devastating for the particular areas, but fortunately the areas around were able to give help.
I think what we're going to find here with this Saruga Bay earthquake is that it's going to devastate the entire area.
The roads, bridges, tunnels, everything will be down, and it's going to be very difficult to get help in there.
I think it's going to be a long time before We know exactly what the extent of the damage is and can get to the injured and the dead.
Well, if you were to file a story on the possibility of a large, devastating earthquake of this type to ABC, just following the Kobe earthquake, no doubt you'd have a really good chance of getting it on the air.
But if you tried to file that story today, it probably wouldn't run, would it?
In what sense?
Well, in other words, Kobe had earthquake hot news in Japan, so they might be likely to run a story of the sort that you've been talking about tonight.
But in the normal, everyday, if you were to try to file that same story today, it probably wouldn't get attention, probably wouldn't get run, would it?
Well, I mean, you mean if we're looking back on the Kolbe earthquake?
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, oh yeah.
I think there's a tendency, once these things are done, to forget about them.
We did have a big sort of anniversary here, of course, in Japan, looking at the Kolbe earthquake, but I think when I spoke to various editors, I don't think we did anything on this as an anniversary piece.
Yeah, well, that's what I'm getting at.
In other words, if you have some sort of really current hook, you're going to get it on the air.
But I mean, this is a monster story that ought to be run whenever anybody would be willing to look at it.
Well, yeah.
I mean, for example, do you know what's going on in Taiwan?
You know, remember we had that earthquake a few months ago, and I bet there's very little being done to say, well, how's the situation out there now, and how are they recovering?
I guess, you know, we all see something, we gasp, and then we move on.
That is the nature of humanity, isn't it?
Short attention spans.
Very much so.
10,000 people die in India in a cyclone, and you sort of go, oh wow, and then it's on with the rest of the day.
Listen, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for coming on the show with me, Peter.
It's been a pleasure.
It really has been a pleasure, and listen to me.
If you have... I'm going to be on the air.
Beginning at 7 o'clock p.m.
Pacific Time on New Year's Eve, and maybe there'll be a moment or two when you'll have a little bit of time.
I've got your phone number between reporting for ABC and anybody else, and I wonder if we might call you and get a report.
You could try.
I tell you, I know I'm going to be fairly tied up, because I'm not only going to be reporting for ABC that night, but for many other stations and papers that I cover.
But it would be great talking to you.
Let's keep in touch, and let's see if that can be done.
It would be nice to make contact again, and we'll just see what sort of events unfold here come New Year's Day.
Peter, my friend, thank you, and good night.
Thanks, Art.
Good talking to you.
Take care.
That's Peter Hatfield in Tokyo, Japan.
I'm Art Bell, and this, of course, is Coast to Coast AM.
We'll be right back.
Open Minds.
directly ahead and lots to talk about.
Thank you.
Thank you.
But what I feel for you is real love.
In other's eyes I see reflected, I heard the call.
Rejected at all times, never meant to be.
At all times.
Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
To recharge on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nile.
Good morning, everybody.
Sort of flashing some of the music of this millennium past you in bumpers as we work our way toward the day.
The change of a thousand years.
We're about 30 days away from it now.
Boy, it sure did come on fast, didn't it?
That's what we've got to do.
All right, open lines just around the corner.
stay right where you are or hold on if you will.
Well, let's see here.
The big news is the battle in Seattle.
And I've got a few words to say about it.
The Associated Press says, delegates from 135 nations tried Wednesday to resuscitate global trade talks that thousands of protesters had brought to a standstill.
While the streets were calmer than yesterday, police were still firing tear gas at demonstrators near the president's hotel as night fell.
Now, I've been in touch, I have a lot of contacts in Seattle.
I've got something that I want to tell you because there's a really big misimpression being spread across the nation from Seattle.
99.9% of the protests in Seattle have been from serious-minded, honest, hard-working, non-violent people.
I'm sorry to say the various networks, and I don't have to name them because it's all of them, I'll continue to harp on the same piece of footage again and again and again and again of the violence.
And that is such a small piece of what's really going on up there that, as a nation, we're being ripped off.
We're being manipulated by the media.
And, you know, I'm part of it, I know.
But I'm telling you, I know it's the case.
They didn't really cover very much of the non-violent protests.
I guess it's just not sexy.
You know, you want to see people burning things and turning things over and all the rest of that, and that's what gets in the news, and that's what's in the news, and it kind of buries the message, I'm sorry to say.
So, that's what I've got to say about what's going on in Seattle.
The battle in Seattle, they call it.
It's not just Seattle, it's, you know, it's around the world and I too have concerns about free trade.
I'm very much in favor of free trade, but I understand the concerns of the people who are demonstrating.
They're valid concerns.
And we all know money, what money does and what everybody else has to do, right?
It talks and everybody else, well, you know.
So I think they're valid concerns and they better listen up there.
They better show some sign of listening.
A lot of different messages.
Somebody said, I noticed they didn't call out the National Guard until Starbucks was vandalized.
That's big up there.
Somebody else says the planners of the WTO should have picked a different location for this get-together.
New Orleans or Atlanta would not draw protests to this degree.
Besides, Says the faxer.
Both places have quality convention centers, and the call girls are probably just as nice.
Have you read Drudge tonight?
This doesn't surprise me.
I have no way of knowing if it's true, but the Drudge report says, exclusive, Hillary demands divorce.
White House officials are furious that apparently the National Enquirer, according to Drudge, is planning to report that Bill and Hillary Clinton are talking divorce.
Tensions escalated after a brutal fight last month in Turkey, where Bill and Hillary were touring earthquake-ravaged areas, said the report.
Next week, says the Drudge Report, the tabloid will unleash the report with a front-page
Scream exclusive that quotes family and legal sources.
The White House expressed outrage at the story.
Well, I'm not shocked.
You know, I'm not saying it's true, but I wouldn't be shocked if it was true.
I think the First Lady just announced she was going to move to New York and would only occasionally come back to the White House.
So that's a separation, really, of a sort.
And you know there's been a lot of behind-the-scenes of crockery blasting and trajectories, no doubt, hitting various portions of the White House interior walls.
I mean, I'm sure that kind of thing has gone on.
Public face is one thing, private face is another.
So I wouldn't be that shocked if it was true, but, you know, right now it's just a drudge report.
For the first time, scientists have mapped virtually an entire human chromosome.
Have you been hearing about that?
It's been on CNN.
One of the chains of molecules that bear the genetic recipe for human life.
That's us.
The achievement, announced Wednesday, is an important step for the $3 billion Human Genome Project, which is attempting to detail the tens of thousands of genes that carry Instructions for everything in a human, from brain function to hair color to foot size, and I might add disease, predisposition to certain things, and you know, it's really wild what they're doing.
And I might add also they're getting very close now to cloning.
They're about to clone.
There are private labs in the U.S.
right now about to clone human beings, and there's a big brouhaha going on about that.
I'm going to read you something that was sent to me and I'm going to do my best to adhere to the wishes of the person who sent it to me.
I'm going to do the best I can.
This is from a police officer.
Dear Mr. Bell, I'm a police officer in a small town just west of a place in Missouri.
I'm not going to read the town.
I listen to you every time I work the midnight shift and find your program quite fascinating, just before Halloween this year.
You had a program on called Ghost to Ghost AM.
I wanted to call you in then and tell you about what had happened to me, but I couldn't bring myself to do it.
But I've got to tell someone.
I've never shared this with anyone, not even my family.
Earlier this year, I had to have surgery To repair, and he says, you know, it doesn't matter what it is here.
It's a relatively simple surgery.
The surgery, he says, went well.
But afterward, I developed an infection that caused a very large hernia of my abdominal muscles.
And they had to go back in.
Because as time went on, the hernia got worse.
And so I finally had to go back under.
The doctor told me the operation would take about an hour and a half to two hours, and that I'd be spending the night in the hospital.
Well, things went bad.
I was in the operating room for about five hours instead.
Ended up staying in the hospital for six days, three of them in intensive care.
This is where it gets interesting.
Here's what I want to tell you.
After being put under the anesthetic for the surgery, I suddenly discovered that I was aware of what was going on, but not as though I was on the operating table.
I was suddenly observing the operating room as though I was standing off in the corner of the room, not floating above or anything like that, but just standing off to the side.
As I observed, I could see myself on the operating table and there was a flurry of activity all around me.
There was a nurse, I assumed, sitting astride me doing CPR.
The surgeon was calling someone else for the crash cart.
That's in quotes, crash cart.
I could hear the anesthesiologist yelling, this can't be happening, this can't be happening.
I could hear someone else saying, another amp of epi now.
Which I assume was epinephrine.
Other people were calling out various things that I cannot remember.
As I watched, the nurse doing the CPR jumped off the table and the surgeon shocked me with the defibrillator twice.
I know what a defibrillator is, how it's used as a police officer.
I've been present at a number of incidents where the paramedics have had to shock people and try to restart their hearts after a heart attack or a drug overdose.
I remember the surgeon saying, again, give me 300, and saw him put the paddles on my chest.
Then I remember nothing until I woke up in recovery.
At first, after I awoke, I thought I'd had some sort of anesthetic-induced hallucination.
But shortly after I woke up, my doctor came in to see me.
He told me there'd been complications during the surgery.
He told me how long the surgery had taken.
He told me I'd gone into cardiac arrest during surgery and they had had to use, quote, extraordinary measures, end quote, to resuscitate me.
But everything was okay and I'd recover fully.
I didn't tell him anything about what I had experienced.
One of the operating room nurses was a young lady with whom I had once had a, shall we say, relationship.
So, I was able to get word to her to come and see me after about 20 minutes of conversation.
I managed to convince her to tell me exactly what had occurred in the operating room.
She confirmed that I had indeed gone into cardiac arrest while undergoing surgery.
When I pressed her for details, she told me one of the nurses had been sitting astride me doing CPR While the defibrillator was brought up, she, I'm not going to give the name, differed to some degree in what the anesthesiologist said.
She said that he said, this can't be effing happening.
You don't die during a hernia repair, end quote.
And she said that, he had said that several times, otherwise she confirmed everything.
Everything I'd seen when I was standing off to the side, observing.
What happened to me?
Was it a near-death experience?
I don't know.
Did the trauma of the incident manage somehow to penetrate the anesthesia and embed itself in my subconscious?
I don't know.
I do know I never saw any bright white light like I've heard from others.
Never saw any of my loved relatives calling to me.
I never saw anything except the operating room, the doctors, the nurses, and me.
Now, I haven't shared this with my doctor, haven't shared it with my nurse friend, and I sure didn't share it with any of my family or fellow officers.
Basically, I was afraid of being labeled a nutcase and being sent to see the departmental psychologist or getting one of those Sure you did, dear attitudes, from my family.
Bottom line is, I don't know for sure exactly what happened, but I had to tell someone.
I'm not asking you to share this with your listeners, but should you decide to do so, I'd be very grateful if you'd make sure that no one can identify me by location or situation.
So, I did the best I could, sir.
I thank you for the story, and I absolutely believe every word of it.
And I don't know what to tell you.
I think your reasoning is sound in questioning whether, for example, during the anesthetic, your mind somehow did manage to register subconsciously what was going on, but your mind I don't believe your mind could shift itself from the body to actually see the external actions of others during a deep anesthetic, which obviously you were under.
So, what you have told me is very important.
What you have told everybody is very important.
We are more than just our physical bodies.
And there is something else that follows this life.
I think that you just brushed up against it.
Just a little taste of it.
Others have gone farther.
But the fact of the matter is, it's real.
I've heard the stories again and again and again and again, so I know it's real.
Anyway, I thought I would share that with you, and he obviously wanted me to share that with you, and there you have it.
The words of a police officer.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello Mr. Bell, how are you doing this evening?
Okay, how are you?
I'm in Seattle, and I partook in the protest yesterday.
Do you agree with me with regard to the coverage?
I can't convey to you the way that it felt to stand at 6th and Pine with a cross-section of the United States, and I mean old and young, people from all walks of life, And look at a man with an MP5 hanging off of him with an M16 in his hands.
Yep.
A revolver on his side.
Yep.
Fighting knives.
Full combat gear.
Yep.
And this is before anything started, sir.
The people that they first fired tear gas on and rubber bullets on were seated in the middle of an intersection.
Peacefully.
Everybody was being told through bullhorns by the march bosses, it is a peaceful protest, do not resist if you are arrested.
And I'm telling you this, this is the God honest truth.
Oh, I believe you.
I'm telling you.
That the WTO came to this town and they have talked about, on our news stations, about the right of the WTO to have free speech.
Excuse me, but the WTO, they're not citizens of this country.
Well, now, hold it, hold it, slow up, slow up.
Wait a minute, slow up.
Visitors to this country, you may or may not be aware, do enjoy the same rights, basically, that we do, and that includes free speech.
Earlier I was discussing that with somebody earlier, I'm glad you clarified that for me, Listen, I'm going to hold you over.
I've got a break coming up, so just stay there.
Take a good deep breath and we'll pick it up, alright?
Okay, sir.
Stay there.
We'll be right back.
versus coast to coast air.
You're lying back in a sweatin' dress In a room where you do what you don't confess
Sun down, you better take care If I find you been creepin' round my backstairs
Sun down, you better take care If I find you been creepin' round my backstairs
the next one.
You keep sayin' you got somethin' for me Somethin' you call love, let's confess You've been a messin' where you shouldn't have been a messin' And now someone else is gettin' all your best These boots are made for walking, and that's just what they'll do.
One of these days these boots are gonna walk all over you.
Wanna take a ride?
Call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
800-618-8255. East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033. First-time callers may reach Art at area code
775-727-1222 or call the wildcard line at 775-727-1295. To talk with Art on the toll-free
international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
These boots are made for walking, and that's just what they'll do. One of these days these
boots are gonna walk all over you. We'll send this one out to Seattle.
My current caller should just be back in just a moment.
Boots.
Walkin' boots.
You keep playin' where you shouldn't be playin'.
And you keep thinkin' that you'll never get burned.
I know I've heard this song with reference to something else.
I just know it.
Anyway, we'll continue with our caller in a moment.
Stay right where you are.
Right back now to my caller from Seattle, and sir, no, it's true.
Even people who come here to visit this country basically are entitled to the same freedoms that we enjoy as citizens.
Yeah, I just... To be honest with you, I've honestly never been confronted by people with machine guns, and there was no provocation.
You know what I'm saying?
For them to be standing there like that?
I know exactly what you're saying.
I went down there to march with labor.
It's who I went down there to march with.
Yes.
In transit to the labor march, I came up against the police blockade and I stayed there to watch what would happen.
And like I said, they ended up firing on the peaceful protesters to clear the intersection.
I'm so glad I was there because... Well, I'm sure they probably got on a bullhorn and said, this is not a legal assembly, you're going to have to leave now or else, something like that.
Well, see, the thing is, is that it was quite chaotic, to be honest with you.
The very first little skirmishes.
Sure.
Because, see, people were committing... What's funny is, or what's bizarre, is the people that are committing the acts of breaking the windows, breaking into places, spray painting and so forth, were not arrested.
For hours last night, they let 200 people run rampant in downtown.
You know how you see the Starbucks windows being smashed in and so on and so forth?
Yeah.
And they show it over and over again?
Right.
That was an act committed by 200 people, and the police were standing across the street watching.
Well, you see, that's what I was complaining about, in essence, with regard to the coverage.
Again and again, all they show is the violence, the tear gas, the looting, that whatever, the breaking, the vandalism, all of that.
That's all they show, and they ignore The issues behind the gazillions of people who protested peacefully who really want a voice in what's going on and that's the real issue and they're just sliding right by that and they're feeding us this violence again and again and again.
It is now illegal to buy a gas mask in Seattle.
You will be fined $500 and put in jail for up to six months for possessing one in the downtown area.
Really?
Yes sir.
You are told that you can't be downtown past seven o'clock I was aware of the curfew, yes.
And you will not be allowed back until dawn, and people who are not supposed to be there
or have no identification on them will be escorted away by the police.
Not only that, but the closest thing I saw to reality mirrored on a television screen
was ITN News.
Tonight I watched on the PBS affiliate here, and ITN News had a piece, and you know, they
had guys asking questions, British journalists asking the chief of police here questions
and getting answers that I saw none of on three separate local affiliates here.
I hear you.
And the thing is, is that you can see the manipulation, because I was there to see it unfiltered, and it's the first time, honestly, that I've ever been involved in anything like that, that I've ever seen anything like that.
But I've believed in this strongly ever since NAFTA and GATT.
When you blur our international boundaries, and you say that there's no more Taxes involved with going across the borders and everything?
Globalization is upon us.
Oh, it is.
It is.
It is, sir, and thank you.
Absolutely, it is.
Economically, it's already a reality.
And one that you might as well get used to because you're not going to change it.
What you can do is see to it that there's humanity injected into the system.
And that's what the protestors seem to be wanting to say, that damn it all, it's not just economics, but it's people,
it's jobs, it's families, it's human beings.
It's more than just a dry economic group of decisions that are going to be made by leaders of X numbers of
nations or trade ministers.
And I have sympathy with that position.
And they should be listening, and they're not.
What they're taking is a completely adversarial position.
I mean, it's just like the battle in Seattle.
It's like advertised, you know?
And nobody's listening and talking to anybody.
It's just a mess.
And with regard to machine guns, Do a little foreign travel.
You'll find out very quickly that they're everywhere.
I mean, there are some countries you go to where there's a guy with a machine gun at the end of every block, sometimes more than one.
But I know it's a very eerie feeling to feel in this country.
It's something you don't expect.
Well, welcome to reality, I would say.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
Hello.
Hi, this is Bruce in Toronto.
Yes, Bruce.
And all I can say about Seattle, and I don't want to sound too glib, but okay, it ain't Chicago 68, but I'll take it.
What do you mean by that?
Well, I mean by that, that I think it's about time we had a little bit of kicking out the jams in regards to All of the crap that's going down, and I know it's not quite Mayor Daley's... Oh, I see what you're saying.
You know... Yeah, it's been a long time since a really serious mass protest in this country, actually.
Yeah, well, you know, I mean, since Vietnam, I guess a lot of people might feel that there hasn't been much to protest against, but... Right.
You know, I think that there are a lot of things that people should be upset about.
And I'm glad to see that there are people that are willing to get out in the streets and say, hey, wait a minute.
Well, what's sad about this is that, again, just the violence is being covered, for the most part, in the media.
All the news clips I see show people and violence and all the rest of it.
When that was just a teeny-weeny portion of what went on, the big issues are not being talked about.
Well, the media doesn't like to talk about big issues, you know, because it takes a lot of time and it's something that requires some real thoughtful analysis, and the media is not very good at that these days, unfortunately.
You're right about that.
But you know something?
What I really wanted to ask you about was I wanted to get a little bit of an update on a couple of interviews that you had, and the one was actually a rebroadcast that I think was on last night or the night before.
The guy who was talking about visitors from Andromeda, and I don't know what year you did that broadcast.
I don't either.
But in any event, I think he said, very soon there's going to be a flyby.
And I was just wondering... Whether that was prior to Phoenix?
Phoenix?
Oh, was there a big flyby that happened?
No, there was a flyby.
Okay, all right.
Well, anyway, I don't know.
Was that supposed to be it?
Well, I don't know.
I can sit here and speculate along with you, and I would say that it could be.
I would call what happened in Phoenix a flyby.
Wouldn't you?
At least a flyby.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
I think we lost them below.
No, we lost them.
Too bad.
Used to the Rockies, you're on the air.
Good morning.
Uh, Art?
Yes.
Yeah, I was just wondering, uh, also, I'm really sorry about the thing that happened with, uh, what do you call it, uh, Podunk, Oklahoma?
Atoka, Oklahoma.
Atoka, Podunk, Redneck, whatever.
Um, yeah, you're right, the system doesn't work anymore.
It's insanity!
It's insa- I mean, here's somebody wanting to come and kill me and my family, uh, has written it down in the most horrible way, A police officer brings it in.
He admits he's going to do it.
Must do it.
He wrote it.
He gets taken away.
Then he gets cut loose.
And they won't give me... Now, I understand.
I don't care to have the guy's psychological profile, and I'm sure there are privacy issues.
Of course.
But damn it!
I mean, they protect the potential of a criminal.
I might add, with a history.
And they won't even protect the potential victim, myself and my family, to the degree of telling me whether this guy has been cut loose and may be on the way to kill me.
They won't tell me this to protect his privacy!
Give me an effing break!
It's no different from what's been happening.
You know, somebody breaks into someone's home, they sneak up the stairs to rob their jewelry from the bedroom, and trip on a skate the kid left out, and they sue the family and win.
I know.
It's insanity, and it's really happening.
Well, I have a question about something, Art.
I can't exactly remember.
I was wondering if maybe one of your callers or somebody else could help me out, or maybe you know.
I remember you did a show, I think, on maybe the Cydonia region of Mars.
Yes.
Many shows.
Yes.
I remember there was one in specific where someone spoke of remote viewing something underneath the surface of Mars, such as that.
That would be Ed Dames.
And what he said was, there is something awakening.
Underneath it.
That's right.
Awakening.
Do you happen to know which one that was or if it's archived on the site on broadcast.com?
Oh, you bet it is, but I can't give you the date.
You'd have to go back and... Actually, I don't know how the hell you'd find it.
I think I could do a search on your site and reference it up to the program service.
Give it a try.
All right.
Thank you, Arpel.
You bet.
My site is kind of like an internet within an internet.
You know, and I want to add something else about this Atoka incident.
You know, I'm a national talk show host, so I do have some resources available.
The average citizen wouldn't, for example, to hire a lawyer back in that area to begin finding out what the hell's going on on the ground.
To get an investigator, courtesy of my network, to find out what's going on on the ground back there.
And so, I'm fortunate in that regard.
Of course, the other side of the coin is I tend to draw that kind of thing because of who I am.
But I do have those resources.
But there's a lot of this kind of stuff going on, folks.
And what does the average car mechanic do who gets a threat like this?
Hmm?
Or the car salesman?
Or, you know, just the average guy?
What do they do?
What resources do they have to find out what the system will not tell them?
Well, the answer is none.
And a lot of times you hear stories about people getting released and people getting killed because the system was so insane that it favored the potential criminal instead of the potential victim.
It's crazy and Oklahoma needs to change the way they do things.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
Yeah, I'm okay.
Good night.
Yes, turn your radio off, please.
I just got it.
You caught me with a five-minute truck out here.
You were talking about that thing in Oklahoma.
Yeah.
Halloween.
I was driving east out of Oklahoma City, about 150 miles through the construction.
It was raining, and at the last bridge, something came off the bridge and broke my right windshield.
Needless to say, I was kind of alarmed about it.
Sure.
So, I'm on a cell phone now.
I called 9-1-1, I think it was .7 or whatever it was, 7-7 over there in Oklahoma.
They gave me a county sheriff.
I had to sit and wait till he showed up.
His first question was, why don't you have your triangle down?
Really?
Oh yeah.
Oh, it gets better.
And I told him, he said, what happened?
They examined, took pictures of the truck.
And he had my driver's license, so he called in a DMV report on my driver's license.
I said, uh, you know, I'm kind of confused here.
I said, I'm not the criminal in this case.
He said, well, I went up there where one of those kids hang out and no one looks suspicious.
I said, well, I got a plan.
Go get one of those kids and bring him back and I'll make him look suspicious.
And he said, uh, oh, we can't do that.
I said, what, one of them wet?
Oh, I didn't notice.
But anyway, he did one DMV check and the guy, he said, what do we got to do?
I know, but he doesn't know how to do this.
So they ran another one.
He wouldn't have with that one.
So he ran another one.
That's a genius as well.
I mean, I've been through like, of course, truck drivers are stumbling at most places anyway, and they're, of course, I always say the difference between crime and a traffic ticket is crime don't pay.
Yeah.
No, I hear you.
I mean, it's crazy.
Thank you very much.
In other words, you're treated like the perpetrator.
I mean, what that gentleman just said is fair.
I mean, something smashes his right windshield, obviously a rock or something like that, and he's treated as the criminal.
Now, that's Bass Ackwards.
It's like this thing with me, completely Bass Ackwards.
Somebody needs to get the priorities straight.
I mean, people are going to die here.
And what kind of a system would do this?
Well, only a really screwed up one.
That's what I'd say.
And or it might be just the individuals involved.
It's hard to say, but... They were amazingly non-helpful, rude, angry.
And all I'm wanting to know is, is this guy on the way to kill me?
I don't know.
The whole thing's nuts.
Absolutely nuts.
But I told that story.
It's in the first hour of the show, which will get repeated, I think, at 3 o'clock Pacific Time or something like that.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hello.
Hello.
Yes, hello.
Turn your radio off, please.
Oh, all right.
Yes, you're on the air.
Yeah, listen, two things.
I hope you'll repeat that.
What happened to you in Oklahoma, we had a basketball game here in Phoenix.
I didn't, I could get bits of it from Albuquerque, but it's very shocking, the whole picture is very shocking.
Yes, yes, it's shocking.
And, oh gee, what was the other thing I wanted to ask you?
For those who don't hear, the archive, of course, is going to be available shortly on the web.
Well, I'm a little grey-haired grandmother who's legally blind and I don't have a computer, so I'm kind of handicapped.
I have to depend on my tape recordings and so on and so forth.
Well, it will be repeated about an hour from now.
Okay.
Oh, and the man that wrote you the facts about what happened to him during the surgery?
Yes.
I had something very similar happen to me about five years ago.
Oh?
I had something on my chin, a rash on my chin.
It was misdiagnosed as being impetigo.
Finally, it was determined that it was cancer, and my whole chin was covered with this cancer.
Had to have general surgery.
They slit my chin open from ear to ear.
And before the surgery started, it was general surgery of course, before the surgery started, there were three people in the room, a surgical nurse, the surgeon, and an anesthesiologist.
During the surgery, I woke up.
I looked up.
That's a horror all in itself.
You actually woke up?
And there was a circle of people around me.
Mine isn't quite as dramatic as his was, but there were eight or ten people around me, and I blinked, and then all of a sudden I started shaking violently.
And I've had enough work on the fringes of medicine and research and writing to just be a nuisance and have some small knowledge of what was going on, and I thought, gee, this must be what it feels like when you get defibrillated.
And then I lost consciousness.
After I went back for my checkup after I got out of the hospital, I asked the doctor about it and the body language was just amazing.
All of a sudden he saw somebody down the hall that he had to talk to right quick and he never came back.
So he wouldn't even talk to you about it?
He wouldn't discuss it with me.
So then I went out to the front desk and asked the nurse about it and she was quite shaken and she said, you know people have the wildest dreams when they're under anesthesia.
So I never did find out what happened, but... Well, I can understand why that story would resonate with you, and I very much appreciate your call.
Can you imagine waking up during surgery?
God, what a horror.
Listen, this is the last year this is going to happen, so it is therefore your last chance.
I have written a couple of books.
The Art of Talk, which is an autobiography of me, which I'm very proud of, incidentally, And of course, The Quickening, which continues to sell like crazy.
The Art of Talk is getting rare, very rare.
And if you would like autographed copies of these books for Christmas, this is the last year that we're going to offer them.
This is it.
Between now and Christmas, and then never again.
Hear me now, never again.
There are a limited number of signed copies available.
You can get The Art of Talk and The Quickening for $44.95 plus shipping and handling.
Signed copies.
And this is the last time.
Be sure of it.
The number to call, 24 hours a day, get through, you know, if you can't get through at night, get through during the day, is 1-800- 8-6-4-7-9-9-1.
Now, you can try that now if you would like to.
800-8-6-4-7-9-9-1.
Stay right there.
Because I think we'll be right back.
You never know for sure, but I bet we are.
Where are those happy days?
They seem so hard to find.
I try to wait for you.
First, when there's nothing.
But a slow, slowing dream.
That your fears seem to hide.
Deep inside your mind All alone I have cried Silent tears full of pride In a world made of steel, made of stone
Where I keep the music, close my eyes, feel the rhythm Wrap around, take up all of my heart
While I feel it, keep receiving I can't resist the music, this is for my life
Take your passion, and make it happen Call your AT&T operator at 800-893-0903
That's 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
I think I like this song because it's so uplifting.
Just to listen to it is uplifting.
Good morning, everybody.
I'm Art Bell.
By the way, I'm in a new song.
I am rhythm in a five, six day cold. Oh, oh, oh. By the way, I'm in a new song. I just discovered it. Anybody here have
a group called, uh, Dementia? Ha ha ha.
It's a rock group called Dementia.
They've got a new song called Millennium Girl.
Take your passion And make it happen
You're just a moment now Now I'm dancing through my time
And I'm in the third verse For the feeling
Yeah!
I'm in the third verse For the feeling
Yeah!
This is the part I like, by the way.
Anyway, in the third verse of Millennium Girl, words and music by M. Kahn and Dementia.
Dementia.
It says, so I got me a bunker deep down in the ground, withdrew all the money from my bank account, ordered a survival kit from Art Bell, bottled all the water from a wishing well, now all I need is my Millennium Girl.
I have yet to hear it.
I haven't heard the song, but somebody emailed me the words to the song.
So now I guess I'm immortalized by dementia.
I knew that was always going to be my fate.
Hey listen, tomorrow night, Steven Seagal is going to be here.
Now I'm sure you've seen him in a million movies.
And he's kind of an enigma because the kind of movies he does
and what he's going to come and I would bet wager with you talk about
tomorrow night or tonight technically are very different things.
He's a very different person than you might assume he is from his screen presence, based on the kind of movies he's done, so it should be an interesting interview.
Probably not really a long interview, as most of these sorts of interviews are not.
But one never knows.
In the first hour, Linda Moulton Howe is going to be here, and boy, does she have news for you.
And so, between all that, we'll continue with open lines as we are right now.
Anything you want to talk about is basically fair game.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hi, this is Debbie calling from Seattle.
Hi, Debbie.
I just wanted to tell you how grateful I am for you to put something on the air that the situation here has not been citywide and has not included thousands of violent protesters.
You'd never know it if you watch TV, though.
No, and I've hated the coverage, and it's made me angry, and I was out there marching yesterday.
There was 20,000 or 30,000 people.
There was people from the unions and also protesters, and it was a wonderful experience.
Well, what it makes you do, Deb, is to understand, when I talk about the way media reports things, you don't understand it unless you're in the center of it, watching The way the national media covers something that you know the truth about.
Absolutely.
And it's been the same two or three hundred people all along.
In fact, when you broke for the news, they just came on the news and they said that protesters were up by the East Precinct and were told to disperse and were tear gassed.
And once again, it's two to three hundred.
And that's the same number all along.
Sure.
Sure.
I want people to know that this is a great city.
I'm proud of what they've done here.
I am not really pleased with the WTO, but I'm proud that the city has been here to host it, to let people see our city.
Listen, Seattle is one of the most beautiful cities in the world.
It is.
Period.
I mean, that's it.
Seattle is simply beautiful.
Great place to live.
It's getting a really bad rap in the press right now.
I know, and it's a lie, and that's what makes it so sad, because they don't, like you said, they're not concentrating on showing the great stuff that happened, and what's been going on, and the people that have been out there, and all they're showing is the nut cases.
I know, I know.
I wanted to thank you.
Debbie, thank you, and take care.
Yes, I'm very well aware.
Having been in the center of several media blitzes myself, I think I complained bitterly about it previously on the air, but they report a story the way they want it reported.
And God help anything that gets in the way of that.
If they've got a certain angle or a slant they want to apply to a story, that's the way it's going to get reported nationally and then of course down to the local level because most of the radio stations and smaller TV stations are either taking feeds from the network or the wire service In the business, what we call ripping and reading, you know, you don't investigate anything, you just read what is given to you on the wire service.
And so, you really cannot understand how twisted a lot of national reporting is, for their own reasons, until you're actually in the middle of the truth watching it being misreported on TV.
Otherwise, you would think that There's absolute anarchy raining totally throughout Seattle.
You know, that's what it looks like on TV, and they really need to straighten that out.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello?
Hello.
Hello.
Is this our bill?
Yep.
Let me turn my radio down.
Good idea.
Hi, my name's Chris.
I'm just coming up to Hudson, Kansas.
And I can tell you're in a big truck.
Yes, sir.
I'm a long-time lifter.
First time I ever try and get through.
Well you made it.
I got a comment on what's happened to you and your family there.
Yes sir.
Now there's a federal law underneath the terrorism act when somebody's threatening you.
Yes.
And I don't know if you maybe should get over to the FBI and The FBI has already been advised.
And their comment was, well, the local authorities are handling it, so we won't.
I know.
I know.
Listen, I appreciate your call.
that was being stopped and they let the idiot go and he flashed her through acid in her
face.
I know.
I know.
Listen, I appreciate your call.
That's exactly correct.
The laws have got to be changed.
Bye.
They really do, and that's as much of a reason why I brought it up tonight as not.
I really would have, under normal circumstances, not told you.
But I weighed all of this in my mind.
One thing, first, I thought, the audience has a right to know what happened.
It was an emergency.
And then, of course, I've got to weigh the copycat crap That inevitably follows against the value of talking to you about this issue.
And I decided that the talking to you about this issue wins.
Can you imagine being as helpless as that?
To not even be told and know that somebody's on the way to kill you because they're protecting the privacy of the would-be killer.
I mean, it's just unbelievable.
Unbelievable.
I can't recall having been so angry in a long time.
Oh, West of the Rockies, you're on there.
Hi.
Oh, how are you doing?
Okay.
Oh, yeah, this has been a pretty crazy couple days up there in Seattle, huh?
You bet.
Yeah, so what do you think about what's going on up there?
Well, I've been already talking about that.
Yeah.
Extensively, in fact.
So, do you think it's the place where, you know, it needs to be done like that?
What do you mean?
About how, you know, there are a couple of hundred anarchists up there.
Yeah.
Then there are the peaceful.
Yeah.
People, you know, tell the WTO, you know, where to pretty much, where they stand and what they think that should be going on.
Do you think that that's the way to present a solution to the problem with the WTO or what?
Yes, I do.
I think the dissent is absolutely legitimate, with the exception of that tiny percentage.
The rest of it is legit.
And the crime is that none of the issues are being talked about.
It's just coverage of the tiny percentage, and the issues really need to be talked about.
We're not going to stop this one-world economy.
It's already here.
But it really has got to be... I should play that song for you again.
Dedicating it to the WTO.
It's really got to be tempered, this trade discussion, with human issues.
And right now we just have two groups that complete loggerheads in Seattle.
That's all we've got.
And, you know, it's not going to settle anything They're going to have to listen.
They're going to have to throw up their hands and say, okay, let's have a dialogue about this.
Include the human elements in what we're doing.
I think it's legit.
You bet I think it's legit.
Used to the Rockies?
You're on the air, huh?
Yes, I have got a very interesting suggestion for you.
You could do a program on public rights versus patient's rights.
Example.
I had a party very close to me who was psychotic, depressive, and suicidal.
Right.
The person disappeared.
I tried to call all the mental health things, and they said, well, we can either confirm or deny that the party even exists.
Yeah, I know.
I could do a whole program on this, Art.
I'm sure I could.
I almost am.
No, please do it, because the laws need to be changed.
You've already said it.
And by doing this, Maybe you can do some mobilization.
It would be a great good that you would do by doing a program like this.
Well, that's why I aired it all, sir, to get some butts moving.
I mean, it's just, it's insane.
You know, we pride ourselves on being a fair and reasonable people.
In fact, in the so-called justice system, the word reasonable is used a lot.
Reasonable attorney's fees.
What a reasonable person would conclude.
Well, in this situation, obviously, yes, there has to be some protection of the patient's privacy.
But if the issue is that somebody's about to get murdered by a patient that's about to get released, who ought not be, then where should the scales tip?
Well, a reasonable person would suggest that the person who is about to be assaulted be warned.
Right?
Just a simple warning.
Either yes, This person is still in custody and will not be a threat to you, or sorry, a loophole or whatever occurred, and the person is loose and they're headed your way, you better duck.
But when, you know, when your whole family's life is at stake, to not tell them this is insanity.
Complete, absolute, unadulterated insanity.
Buster the Rockies, you're on the air.
Wow.
I don't believe it.
Well, turn off your radio.
Yes, sir.
Just plugged it in.
This is Brian Collin from Spokane, Washington.
Yes, sir.
And I've got a little bit of a, well, my own opinion on what's going on on the western side of the state.
What's your opinion?
Well, it looks as though we've got a bunch of people that might have legitimate complaints That are basically, gee whiz, I missed the anti-Vietnam protest, I missed the civil rights protest, and I missed Woodstocks.
This is their way of acting out, and then if you add in another 2% of absolute anarchists, you've got a volatile situation.
I think you're wrong.
How so?
This was not just something that people joined in on because it's been X number of years since we've had a big protest and they wanted to be part of it.
It's sort of a bandwagon kind of thing.
I don't think it's that at all.
I think the issues are legitimate and big and important issues.
And if they don't protest, then how will there be any voice to change what otherwise is going to occur?
Well, they need to demonstrate their protest in a more focused attitude, such as maybe holding up signs that say, if our gross domestic product is so high, why is our national debt even higher?
Well, fine.
I think that's an insult to those who have legitimate concerns about what's going on up there and want input.
That's all they want.
They want input.
jumping on the bandwagon because they missed the other protests that occurred years ago.
I think that's an insult to those who have legitimate concerns about what's going on
up there and want input.
That's all they want.
They want input.
I watched an awful lot of people talk about this issue and have talked to a lot of people
privately.
Certainly not the media, because you don't see much of that.
But privately.
And all they want is input.
They realize the process is more or less inevitable.
This world economy we have.
But they want some input.
They want some humanity.
They don't want decisions made purely on a dollar basis.
Like I said earlier, you know, money talks and everybody else is tear gassed.
A little exaggeration.
Hello?
First time caller on the line.
You're on the air.
Turn your radio off, please.
Okay.
Okay, where are you?
I'm in California.
I'm a truck driver.
Yep.
On a cell phone.
Yes, sir.
Hope it's okay.
Well, it's semi-okay.
Go ahead.
Okay, is this Art?
Yes.
Yeah, this is Ken.
I actually live in Phoenix, Arizona.
My wife and I listen to you a lot, and I just wanted to ask you, uh, did you ever get that big Harley?
Harley?
You predicted.
Yeah, you were predicted to get a big Harley, uh, well, uh, at the end of last year, they were predicting it for this year, right?
You mean a Harley motorcycle?
Yes, sir.
Um, no.
And then, and I predicted that prediction is going to be absolutely a bonk.
You know, we'll be doing predictions again this year, but no, I didn't get a big Harley.
I figured, uh, if you were going to get it, you better hurry up then, huh?
Well, look, I am not here to run out, read the list, and fulfill personal predictions.
Well, you know, I figured you said you were thinking about it, or you wanted to, so... Well... I'll bring that up.
Okay, sir, I appreciate that.
What I really want is a hang glider.
Not a hang glider.
Actually, I want an ultralight.
But nobody will let me have one.
Including my wife.
Won't let me have one.
Because inevitably, I suppose I'd crash, but I would really like to do that.
The freedom of an ultralight, I think that's as close as you can get to flying.
And till the day I die, the flying bug is never going to leave me.
So every day, longingly, not every day, but nearly every day, I see this fellow who owns one here in my little town flying over Looking like he's having so much fun and I go out there and I just sort of look up at him longingly.
Some days I go out and point at my hundred foot tower hoping that he's not going to hit it.
But what I would really like to do, that's what I... Forget the Harley.
I want to fly.
I've had motorcycles before and they're fun, but it's not flying, you know?
Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi.
Turn your radio off.
I just did.
That's good.
This is Rudy in Pahrump.
Hello.
Oh, you're in Pahrump?
Yes, sir.
How are you doing, Rudy?
Well, I'm doing great.
Actually, I got a chance to meet you at T-Town Lakeside a couple months ago, and we talked about the AK.
I don't know if you remember that.
You were there with your son and Ramona?
Yes.
Yeah, and I was listening, and all of a sudden, you popped in, and I realized that seven-second delay is pretty significant.
It's seven seconds, yes.
Anyways, the reason I'm calling is, I'm originally from Seattle, and when I heard all the stuff coming down on the radio, I called my Pop, who lives up there in the area, and he says, nah, there's nothing going on.
I'm kind of one of those paranoid guys that lives out in the bush and prompts the bush.
We've got a lot of people like that.
Now listen, do you want to hold on through the break?
Yeah, I would.
Alright, stay right there.
We'll be right back.
When we come back, I've got a little WTO bumper music for you.
Stay right there.
I'm going to show her.
Yeah, it's only gonna be about an hour or so, they'll rip off all your mountains, boy, and that long-lost pirate O'Neill might survive.
And all of that high and mighty scenery's gonna be leveled to the ground, boy, by a bunch of them mindless rip-mines on the line.
So listen, all my brothers, when you hear the magnets fly, and you see the waddles flyin' through the great polluted
sky, there won't be no country music, there won't be no rock and
roll, when they take away our country, they'll take away our soul.
Wanna take a ride?
Well, call Art Bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
to the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
And to reach out on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
This is a fairly rare record, actually.
It's only going to be about a second before they take away all of this country, and they'll tell you not to listen to those ears.
And that far off sound of freedom's gonna be an echo from the past.
And the final boom is gonna be sad and long.
And it's only gonna be about an ivy-like story that they cut off the world and blind it,
so we just can't read all the message on the wall.
And the only words that matter ought to be scribbled all over them billboards
in big old block of bloody letters ten feet tall.
There won't be no country music, there won't be no rock and roll,
when they take away our country, they'll take away our soul.
There won't be no country music, there won't be no rock and roll,
when they take away our country, they'll take away our soul.
There won't be no country music, there won't be no rock and roll,
when they take away our country, they'll take away our soul.
There won't be no country music, there won't be no rock and roll,
when they take away our country, they'll take away our soul.
Anybody out there remember this?
Thank you.
The man who did it was C.W.
McCaul.
And I thought it fit rather well.
What do you think?
We'll be right back.
All right, back to my caller here in Pahrump, of all things, right here in my own little town.
Hi, sir.
Hi, this is Rudy in Pahrump.
Right.
The thing that I wanted to bring up for people to think about, and I'll digress just a few minutes.
My wife and I's family both lives up there.
My wife takes care of you guys' prescriptions here.
Leslie says hi to Ramona.
You can tell we're a small town.
Yeah.
One of my wife's sisters works for a major bank from Washington.
And they had literally concertina wire going to the elevator banks.
Really?
And, um... Why?
Well, they were... They were... Well, let's put it this way.
Everybody was scanned going in and out of the bank for weapons, what have you.
Yeah.
And to get on that elevator to go to work.
Yes.
But when it came time to leave work to go to the parking lot, There was no escort, no accompaniment.
Meaning what?
Well, if you're worried about terrorism and trouble and what have you, what's more important?
Your property or your employees?
Well, that's the bitch they're having with the WTO.
You know, that was really the thing that just stuck in my craw, but when I got to thinking about Because we've all heard about the WTO for quite a while.
It's not a new item.
No, it is not.
What's the ultimate aim?
I mean, what's the endgame?
Well, it's inevitable.
Let me repeat this.
The whole thing, thank you, is inevitable.
The world economy is really already a fact.
We're not going to stop that.
And I don't think really we want to stop that.
I mean, trading has progressed.
As you would imagine it would.
If you go back to the days when man lived in caves and dragged his woman in by the hair.
To the early villages, there was then trading between villages.
Then we had cities and towns and then cities, right?
And then trading between cities and then states.
And then nation states.
And so it's a natural, inevitable progression.
Now, somewhere along the line here, there's got to be some humanity injected into the process, and that's all these protesters are wanting.
They're wanting a voice in how all this is going to get set up.
And of course, people with money don't want them to have a voice, because it might cost money.
So, that's really what it's all about.
I mean, they want a voice.
The workers want a voice, and I understand that.
Deserve to have some input into how all of this is done.
And I can't understand why the WTO does not allow for that.
I mean, instead, they're just at loggerheads.
It's like, we're going to have our meeting, and to hell with you.
We're not going to include you.
We don't care about what you think, and we're going to have our meeting.
Well, that's why they've got all their trouble.
So if there could be a little dialogue I think that all of this might just go away.
That's all they're asking for is a little bit of dialogue, and if the WTO was smart, they'd allow it.
Well, Mr. the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hello, Art.
This is Chris.
I'm calling from Juneau, Alaska.
Yes, sir.
The capital.
Yes.
Would you like to know the identity of the scientists that developed chemtrail technology?
It is public knowledge.
No, I don't want you to give the names.
No, no names.
It's on a program that was on Beyond 2000 a few years ago.
Oh?
They developed it.
It's cross engineering of the technology for space age installation.
There was a white fluffy stuff.
Yeah.
There was 97% air.
They weighed the stuff on a scale and it didn't really register.
Then they took it off and dropped a feather and it registered.
Huh.
It was really neat.
So you're saying that was the beginning of the technology that now has become what we know as modern contrails or chemtrails?
Yeah, they did the program so they could drum up some business or funding or grants and the government saw the potential and bought it for this application.
Well, that may be true.
Thank you.
Who knows?
I mean, how many things have been Have evolved from some government funding project for something or another.
I think the answer is many.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hey, Art Bell.
Hey, yes.
Um, I was on your first time caller line back when you had that one guy, and you hung up on me.
What one guy?
Um, who was the guy you had on earlier tonight?
Earlier tonight?
Um, earlier tonight?
Yeah.
I had a guest who was in Tokyo, Japan talking about the earthquake that might be coming.
Yeah.
I'm sorry if you got disconnected.
What were you going to ask?
Well, I was going to tell him.
My name is Brian.
I'm from McPherson, Kansas.
I'm kind of out of breath because I've been running around because I'm working in a kitchen right now.
What was it you wanted to say, Brian?
I was going to tell him that I have a girlfriend from Japan, from Fukuoka, on the southern island, and I was going to ask him, okay, maybe you can answer this, did he say that the southern island would be affected or not?
There are, if you'll listen to me for a second, font lines that run all the way through Literally, all the way through Japan, offshore and on, and down through the island of Okinawa.
I mean, take a look at any world map or geological presentation of what's called the Ring of Fire, and you'll see that almost anything can happen anywhere in that Ring of Fire.
And as a matter of fact, outside of it as well, not as likely, but within that Ring of Fire, you can have a major earthquake anywhere, and yes, she would be in that line.
Absolutely.
Lester the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi.
My name's Leora and I'm calling from Eugene, Oregon.
Yes.
Yes, my comment is concerning the YTO and what happened this evening.
You mean the WTO?
WTO, excuse me, yes.
You know, I have been listening quite extensively to Fox and CNN.
And I really appreciate Ralph Nader, and I believe he's always been someone who has been concerned for the American people.
I'm glad you mentioned that.
I put out the word to several key people that I would like to have Ralph Nader on the program, and I don't have a response yet.
Oh, I would love for you to.
He would enlighten people so well, and even the media that he was speaking with on Crossfire, you know, they're not even really all up on what's going on with the WTO and what's really going on.
And this whole smokescreen, you know, they're trying to focus all this information about all the riot and a couple hundred people that are causing all this trouble.
I know.
And basically, they're just trying to take the focus totally off what's really going on and what they're doing behind closed doors.
And I'm just so upset about it.
Well, you have a right to be.
And I think that you heard the guy who said people are just jumping on the bandwagon so they can be part of some demonstration.
That's ridiculous.
He's totally uninformed.
Yeah, I know.
I agree.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
I love you and I love your show, and you are a bringer of light and truth.
I hope so.
Take care.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi, good morning, Art.
Good morning.
Hi, I'm listening to you on WPHT out of Philadelphia.
Philadelphia.
It's been a long time since you had Robert Wood or Ryan Wood on the show concerning the new MJ-12 documents.
That's true.
You know, they have gone to ground.
I have not heard one word about them.
I'm kind of really glad you brought them up.
That was a major program.
I spoke with Ryan Wood recently.
And?
They have uncovered, well, through Mr. Tim Cooper, they've uncovered approximately 339 pages of watermarked onion skin documents, which they are currently involved in dating to determine whether or not they are legitimate.
However, it appears that they are 40 to 45-year-old documents.
And there's an amazing coincidence that I've noticed in connection with the MJ-12s.
Most people would probably be surprised to know that the man who was listed as MJ-1,
the head of the group, was also a member of the original board of governors of the NICAP
UFO organization.
His name was Rear Admiral R.H.
Hillencoder.
He was a former director of the CIA.
According to Stan Friedman, he was a classmate of Major Donald E. Kehoe, who founded the NICAT group.
Right, Kehoe.
And it's quite a coincidence that Major Kehoe brought him on board in order to get a famous name on the NICAT board.
But it's just a strange coincidence that Admiral Hillencoder is listed as MJ-1 in those documents.
No, I agree.
Very interesting, and I would love to follow up with them.
I haven't talked to them in some time now, but we did a really major program on these documents.
I had a couple of complaints, and I still have them, and the complaints were that nobody had done any validation of signatures.
You know, that would seem to me to be one of the easier things to do.
The answer was, well, you can take a signature.
Well, sure, you can.
I suppose trace it or, you know, somehow photocopy through or whatever.
But that was, to me, basic stuff.
You know, get down the signatures, at least begin to validate some of the material.
And that, I did complain a little bit at the time about that.
And I would like to know if they've done it.
They've certainly had plenty of time to do it.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
This is Anthony in Fairbanks.
Hi, Anthony.
And I had three quick questions.
Okay.
I haven't heard anybody talk about it, but have you been following the story of the Mars Polar Lander?
Oh, yes.
Yes, indeed.
In fact, tomorrow night in the first hour, Linda Moulton Howe is going to be talking about that, because it'll be happening.
Oh, okay.
And then my second question was, you mentioned again that you were going to have a follow-up from that doctor who had his dog killed by an alien?
December 9th.
December 9th, okay.
And the third question was, before the end of the year, are you going to have Richard Hoagland back on?
Oh, I'm sure, yes.
I haven't heard anything from him in a while on your show, and I was just wondering if he was okay.
Oh, Richard is fine.
I spoke to him not more than about three days ago.
Okay.
All right?
So, of course, he'll always be back on.
Thank you.
In fact, in conjunction, no doubt, with the Mars mission.
What's really cool about this Mars mission, if it makes it.
I would be cautious out there and not too surprised if something happens to this Mars probe.
The batting record isn't too good, as you know.
But if things go well, and it does land on Mars, we will get stereo photographs.
Really cool.
We will also get audio from Mars.
Now that's really neat.
We've never done that before, and that's of course conducive to radio.
And so if there are any sounds on the planet, there is enough atmosphere, after all, to propagate them, we'll actually be able to listen.
You know, what if all they hear is this giant crunching sound?
You know, like somebody eating potato chips.
I can't quite get the stereo camera turned around on it.
Anyway, we'll get to hear Mars.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
Hello.
Bobby from Oklahoma City.
Yes, hi Bobby.
Hi, I'd just like to offer you an apology for the misfortune you've had.
Well, it's not your fault, so don't apologize.
You know, but if you're in, Bobby, if you're in Oklahoma, saying something, doing something, becoming activist in some way, I'm not sure how many states are, you know, The way Oklahoma is with regard to the, you know, potential perpetrator and victim and the rights of each respectively, but things have got to change.
I mean, they really have to change.
You're absolutely right.
The comment I'd like to make, though, is an area, Toko, Oklahoma, which is Toko, Oklahoma, West of the Rockies.
Call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
It's all militia.
Okay, but that doesn't change anything.
You know, it may be, as you say, I really don't want to hear that, that allegation, but that may be, that doesn't change anything with regard to the complaints that I had about what occurred.
And that is going to be repeated after the top of the hour.
So if you want to know why I wasn't here yesterday, and you get the repeat hour that comes up here shortly, I think you'll get a pretty good idea of what happened.
It was horrendous.
It still is really going on.
Still really is going on.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
Hi.
Let me get the radio turned down here, all right?
Good morning.
Good morning.
Well, what's your feeling on this?
I mean, you know, as you look at the Y2K, the whole disagreement up there, as I understand it, is fair trade versus free trade.
Are you talking about WTO or Y2K?
Well, a little bit of both, probably.
But the WTO.
All right, WTO.
I think I've been giving my feelings all night.
Oh, I know.
I mean, you know, essentially, you know, these people They do not want us to have free trade in their markets.
Now, I could name a few specific countries, but they want free trade in our markets.
Of course, a lot of their industry is government-supported.
Of course, a lot of our industry has some protection, but taxes are something else.
If you manufacture an item overseas and you bring it in this country, essentially there's taxes paid on whatever retail profit is made.
Uh, but our society does not benefit from any of the manufacturing taxes anywhere along the line to that point.
Uh, you know, there's a lot to say about this, but the idea that the Peaceable Assembly, I mean, for redress agreements, which is guaranteed in the First Amendment.
Right.
Uh, when they didn't, when the police did not go after the actual troublemakers, I was thinking, you know, if I had to orchestrate this whole thing to clear out the downtown area where you could run the WTO.
Boy, what better thing to have a handful of goons down there to break windows and spray paint and that sort of thing.
But anyway, that being as it is, I do hope the people of Seattle show up to protect our national sovereignty.
They're doing that.
They definitely are doing that, thank you, in very large numbers and I commend them.
And I lash out again, verbally, at the idiots in the media.
Who are intent on covering nothing but the trouble.
You know, the violence.
It's such a disservice to the real problem, the real issues.
It's a total disservice and that's all you're seeing.
And it's spread around on every single network.
It's the same.
And so now all of you in Seattle who know what's really going on, now you know what our media does.
Welcome to the club.
You know, unless you have personal experience with media coverage of something around you or something very personal to you or something you personally are involved in, you have no idea how incredibly twisted the media is.
And it's not the fault of all the media.
Most of the media is simply lazy and they take what they're given.
You know, the handout press release.
The thing that comes sailing off the wire service.
The network-fed report.
That's what they take, and that's what they know, and so they're just kind of lazy.
But at a higher level, there's an agenda at work here that's pretty damn scary.
And so the people in Seattle know now what the media can do.
Welcome to the club.
Steven Seagal, tomorrow night.
For tonight, that's it, folks.
I'm Art Bell from the high desert.
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