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Nov. 11, 1999 - Art Bell

03:18:35

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Ed Dames. Remote Viewing Satan. Flight 990 - Richard C. Hoagland, Peter Davenport

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01:20:31

ed dames

53:35

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and or good morning wherever you may be across this great land of ours and beyond, from the Tahitian Hawaiian Island chain, southwest, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north, all the way to the Pole, and naturally worldwide on the internet.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. and I'm Mark Bell.
		And I want to remind you that courtesy of broadcast.com, which distributes for us on the internet, and of course the Intel Corporation that continually comes up with more and more genius maps that allows these great programs that will allow you to actually see our show as, well, as hear it, if you're so inclined.
		I've never figured out why anybody wants to watch a radio show, but people seem to get a kick out of it.
		You go up to my website, download the G2 player, or G7, I'm not sure.
		It's kind of a new model out there.
		I've got to get it myself.
		And then install into your computer.
		Come back up to my website and click on watch the show or streaming video or whatever it is.
		And here I will be doing the show.
		I should like to welcome WSYR in Syracuse, New York.
		They're a powerhouse on 570 covering, well, just about all of central New York.
		So, Troy Skinner, who's the program director, Joe Galutulouski, I believe it is, Jim Reith, the morning guys, the entire gang at WSYR.
		We are really, really pleased.
		We've actually been on since Monday.
		Wanted to be sure everything was working right.
		It is.
		So welcome.
		The Powerhouse from Syracuse, WSYR.
		We are going to make radio history tonight.
		Never before have major airline pilots come forward publicly, particularly not just one crew, but members of two separate airliners, airline crews and airline companies that saw the same thing in roughly the same place at the same time,
		and the FAA controller who tried to see it from the ground.
		All of that is coming up tonight, and we're going to probably cut a little into Ed Dames' time to accomplish all of this, and I've already spoken to him about it.
		Ed Dames, who is a technical remote viewer, has looked at this particular incident that you're going to hear about tonight, and we'll have comments on that, as well as what brought down flight 990, Egypt Air Flight 990.
		He's going to be looking at that as well, has looked at that, I should say, and will have the results for you at a whole lot.
		This could be a wild night.
		We really will make radio history.
		As far as I know, this has never, ever been done before.
		After tonight, it may never be done again.
		I don't know.
		So that's what's directly ahead.
		Buckle in and get ready.
		All right, by the way, everybody, the sun is absolutely going nuts up there.
		We have a rounded sunspot count right now of 340.
		And so I'm getting on HF.
		And that means HF radio, shortwave, every day, 29.6 FM.
		29.6 FM.
		I got on today, and it was a blast talking to people just all over the country.
		So I'll be on again tomorrow during the day, 29.6 FM.
		You might look for me.
		I am W60BD.
		And it's a blast on FM.
		Now, we're not going to worry about the time tonight.
		We're just going to sort of let things flow and go as they are.
		I want to get it all in.
		I don't want to leave anything out.
		We're about to go to Peter Davenport at the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, Washington.
		And we have a lot of very serious, jaw-dropping stuff to get to you tonight, followed by a dames.
		So, and then your jaw will simply drop off.
		So, without further ado, welcome to Seattle, Washington and the National UFO Reporting Center with some really big ones tonight.
		Here is Peter Davenport.
		Peter, welcome to the program.
		Thank you, Art.
		Greetings from Seattle.
		Once again, boy, am I looking forward to this program tonight.
		This is the type of, I know we've done a lot of programs together, but I think this is going to be a very, very interesting one for our listeners.
		You know, as I was sitting here during the first part of the program listening, it occurred to me that if we're not careful, there's going to be a rating system imposed on radio programs before we know it.
		I know.
		I've thought that about my program, Peter, for a long time now.
		They're going to get me.
		But that's all right.
		Until then, I'll have fun.
unidentified		I have similar concerns every once in a while, but it occurs to me that we may have a few listeners who, to get through these UFO programs, may need a sedative or two, whether prescribed by their physician or their favorite bartender, I don't know.
unidentified		But tonight's program, if they're going to sit through this one, they might want to make sure they have a refill on that prescription and a designated driver, because I think we've put together a pretty good program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we're going to be talking ultimately to two major airline pilots, well, a pilot and I think a co-pilot, who saw the same thing.
		I mean, this is really serious.
		Close encounters of the third kind.
		You want to report one of those things?
		No, not me.
		Or whatever it was they said.
		Well, tonight, we're actually having the pilots, the FAA controller, who are going to report one of these things.
		I don't think it's ever been done before.
		So at any rate, Peter, before we get to all of that, you have some even Closer in breaking news, right?
unidentified		You know, yeah, I do.
		And when I went to bed last night at about 1 a.m. this morning, I was looking forward to getting up and preparing for this program.
		I was looking forward to a simple day.
		Little did I know that my wake-up call was going to be yet another call from the FAA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have a very distinguished guest standing by, but I would like to take just a minute to share with our listeners what we might be talking about later in the program.
		This morning at 8 a.m. Central Standard Time, the FAA had a report from two executive jet pilots.
		And what I'd like to do is play a very short audio clip.
		It's only about 15, 16 seconds long, to share with our listeners tonight what my wake-up call was at 0622 this morning.
		This was a report from Kansas City Center reporting what one of their air traffic controllers received from two executive jets.
		One was at 39,000 feet, the other at 37,000 feet over southeastern Missouri, just about 60 miles south of St. Louis, Missouri, my birthplace.
		This is what was reported to us at 0620 hours this morning.
unidentified		Here we go.
		I've had two aircraft report a UFO sighting on frequency this morning, and I can only give you a brief description of what they saw.
		I do have it all on tape.
		I have it all on tape.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it was a pretty dramatic sighting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It shook the pilots up pretty badly.
unidentified		Perhaps we can talk about this one later in the program since we have a little extra time towards the end of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We do, yes.
unidentified		We'll play a couple very interesting cuts that came in this morning.
unidentified		But what I would like to do is go to an audio cut.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just to set the theme for what happened back on the 26th of October, I would like to set the theme with a cut.
		This is actual FAA footage, and I'd like to preface by saying we would not have this tape if it were not for the gentleman whose voice we're about to hear in a few minutes on his day off driving an hour into his workplace, straightening things out that I'd succeeded in getting bollocksed up and getting this tape to us today.
		I really can't say enough fine things about the support and the help and the assistance that we've gotten from the FAA.
		This is the gentleman that we are going to call Joe, who works for the, is an FAA air traffic controller, correct?
		He prefers the covert name Joe tonight, air traffic controller.
unidentified		Let me play the radio reports that came in from two airliners on the morning of the 26th of October.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not a particularly good cut.
unidentified		It's typical radio communication with airliners, but I think it's...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think everybody will understand that, but understand this is, folks, over the Dallas-Fort Worth area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They have a center, and this is what was reported to them on the morning of the 26th of October.
unidentified		Here we go.
		Alright.
		It appeared at 11 o'clock, and we don't know the distance, but 11 o'clock, and we've gone out there.
		I think probably in a bit of maybe 20 miles or so.
		Formation of airplanes planning out there on 84 games.
		It's not like lightning UFO reports, but I think I've seen it like that before we saw 11 o'clock for no one knows how far 50, maybe 50, 100 miles away, but three very bright lights.
		Looks like you went out left time.
		And then the lights appeared, and then it disappeared.
		Any killing back out there or something like that?
		Where would I get another light sign on our issue or something like that?
		Well, there are only two exacts out there, but we don't have anybody in light.
		And I would know about that.
		And about 314, I'm telling you some interesting timing tell you, but that's probably just some kind of anomaly.
		I don't believe there's any impact out there about actually 11, 12 o'clock, maybe 10 miles.
		Anyways, I'm not losing it, because Pope Paul and I both saw it, and I was to tell you, it was very odd.
		We don't see any strokes or anything.
		Usually I'm afraid the lights were far enough apart that leads me to believe that the airplanes were closer than COVID.
		and usually after the headlights turn away or the landing lights turn away, the agency strokes or something, but we don't see anything out there.
		Can you see it?
		It's a plane, isn't it?
		It's a plane at three, isn't it?
		It's a plane at three, and at first glance I would have thought it was a heavy fuel operation, but generally they don't happen this time of the morning, and If it was a heavy fueling operation, and those airplanes were a formation, I was the one back in the plant.
		The lights were far enough apart that it would lead me to believe that even in a new formation or even a lighter formation, they would be explosive to us.
		If you don't sleep with Team Roger, you mean they would altitude with the air next up, but our altitude how far the light is up a thousand feet.
		Don't sleep with Team Roger.
		I can't remember if anybody in the altitude's totally.
		Yeah, thank you.
		So we're here, Roger.
		Sir, that's three lights, that's five minutes ago.
		It looks like on the other side of the plane.
		It looks like about 80 miles away, sir.
		Okay, it was United 92 and you lost the song.
		We pretend you get some collaboration now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They have some corroboration now.
		Oh, boy.
		Oh, that was very clear.
		You had to listen carefully, but not that carefully.
		Peter, that was very clear.
		Good.
		So right at the end, that was the second aircraft, but he didn't sound like he wanted to say a lot more.
		Well, we saw him too.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I'm sure that first gentleman, whose voice we're going to hear here in a few minutes after the bottom of the hour, was pleased to hear that somebody else had seen those things in his airspace.
		But what I would like to do is go to our special guest tonight, Joe, the FAA air traffic controller, who was standing in Fort Worth Center when all of this took place.
		And why don't we listen to what he has to report he heard that morning.
		Hi, Joe.
		Hello, Lord.
		You're going to have to really yell at us, Joe.
unidentified		All right, you have that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's almost okay.
		You're not too loud.
		First of all, I want to thank you for being with us at this late hour.
unidentified		No problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is a late hour.
		So you're an air traffic controller.
		How long have you been one?
unidentified		11 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		11 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In those 11 years, Joe, how frequently do you get something like we're talking about tonight that everybody's hearing?
unidentified		Well, I have never heard it before, but asking around, nearly everyone has heard it at one time or another.
unidentified		It seems like the actual controller that you heard on the tape there mentioned that he had the same thing happen to him last year at almost the same place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At almost the same place.
unidentified		Yes.
		And several over our airspace that I work in is Oklahoma in North Texas.
		And I've had several people tell me they've had pilots report things over that area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does it usually get any farther than you or your supervisor, does it normally get to a national UFO reporting center or does it usually, more times than not, stop before that?
unidentified		It usually doesn't go any further than comments on it.
unidentified		I haven't ever heard of anyone really wanting to push it, report it like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why did this one get reported?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or how?
unidentified		Well, they have when we were looking for some way to report it, we've never had this come up before, and the pilots indicated they wanted to report it, the watch supervisor came up with the number to the National UFO Reporting Center.
		And right as he was walking up, I was thinking, boy, I wish I knew the number to that UFO reporting center.
		And he walked up with it.
		And well, that's great.
		And the ball got rolling from there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You work for the federal government, in essence, right?
unidentified		So is there any That's fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But a relevant question here is, I'm really curious, is there any official way that you can, within the government itself, begin to take a report like this to a higher level or any reason to or any provision for doing that or not?
unidentified		Not that I know of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		Really?
		So in other words, these reports, then most of the time, just sort of happen and get buried.
unidentified		And all of our recorded tapes, unless there's an incident, are erased every 15 days.
		So it's not like you can come back a few weeks later and look it up.
		Oh, don't report it right then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's too late.
		You have two types of radar, at least I know, that you look at.
		You look at transponders of aircraft, which are actively transmitting a signal to you.
		And you also have, I take it, the regular old-fashioned paint-the-skin radar that you can look at if you need to.
unidentified		Well, it's all on the same display, and it's all computer-enhanced.
		We don't see, you see the sweep on the old movies of the radar.
		We don't see that in the center environment where I work.
		The approach controls still have that kind of radar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, what you see is pretty much of a static picture of the center.
unidentified		It's a lot like a video game, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like a video game with little moving transponders.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How effective is the non-transponder radar?
unidentified		In other words.
		It's fine until you're around a major city and then there's so much ground clutter.
		And that's what the controller indicated on the tape there.
		That ground clutter around this area is pretty bad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pretty bad.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		What I'd like to do is ask you and Peter to hold on for a moment.
		We'll take a break here at the bottom of the hour.
		I know we are running a little late, and we're going to do that in this instance because I want to be sure to get it all, all the information on the air for you.
		I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast, A.M. It's night.
		I bought it quick.
		I won't run, not that deep.
		I've got to find out the win to be free again.
		And I've got nothing wrong with you.
		Don't make me win on the bottom.
		We'll be right back.
		We'll be right back.
		Sweet dreams are made of the years.
		When my skin is upbeat, I travel the world and I've never seen everybody looking for something, something wants you.
		Some of them want me to find you.
		Call our bell in the kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To reach out on the Toll-Free International line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Artel, Frombar's Kingdom of Nai.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we really are going to make radio history tonight because we're reporting one of those.
		Actually, two very brave men, and I really don't loosely use that, are coming forward, pilot and a co-pilot, both major airlines driving the heavies, you know, the big ones, both had a sighting.
		You heard the tape and you're going to hear it again.
		We're going to have them on at the top of the hour.
		In the meantime, we're going to chat a little more with this wonderful gentleman we call Joe, who is an air traffic controller in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.
		All of that coming up, and there's a lot to it.
		And then following that, of course, at Dame.
		So it's going to be quite a night.
		All right, once again, Peter Davenport at the UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, Washington, and our FAA controller from the Dallas-Fort Worth area, who we are calling Joe.
		Joe, welcome back.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And remember to yell at us, Joe.
		That's very important.
		And Peter, are you there?
		Still here, Art.
		Okay, good.
		Now, I guess I have a few more questions.
		Joe, what motivated you to report this one?
		I mean, this one could have slipped through the cracks just as easily as any other and sort of gone nowhere, certainly not to a UFO reporting center.
		So that must mean that you want this information out.
unidentified		Well, first of all, the pilot indicated they were going to report it.
		They were pretty, I've never adamant, yes.
		I've never heard them that adamant about wanting, well, I've heard them that before when there's an incident of some kind, and that's about how they sounded.
		They wanted to turn it in, and all I initially called for was, I believe you played that tape a couple of weeks ago, I heard, was just to set the scene a little bit for Peter when he got the call from the pilot so he'd have a little better idea of the scenario that he was going to hear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Peter?
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, as I think back to it, the first call we took on this was from the pilot, actually the co-pilot from Southern Airlines.
		We're calling them tonight.
		After he landed, he gave us a call from the Florida area, and he was the first one to check in.
		And he left no doubt in my mind but what he wanted to report that incident.
		It was very unusual.
		And it leads me to a question, Joe.
		You know, there are a lot of hardware that flies in our skies, covert, military, and so on.
		Can you share with our listeners, is there any possibility that a military aircraft or some kind of intelligence platform would have been flying in that airspace on that morning without strobes, without radio, without a transponder, and would not show up on radar?
		What's your read on that one, please?
unidentified		Well, you never say never.
		They're not supposed to be up there.
		We all have secret clearances, and we're supposed to be able to keep that kind of stuff secret.
		I mean, if they're up there, we're supposed to know about it, especially at those altitudes where the airliners are at.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you allowed, Joe, to know how to identify them or simply that they are going to be in the area?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't want to ask you anything classified, but obviously they probably don't run with transponders if they're over airline.
unidentified		They should have a transponder or in some sort of large warning area or a military operating area, and then we can just miss the area and they can do what they want inside the area.
unidentified		There are large areas like that all over the United States, especially the western half.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We know.
		I'm out here.
		So you just give them clear airspace is what you do.
unidentified		In those areas, yes.
		But if they're out like this aircraft, I guess it was, was we should have known he was there.
		There's no way that's allowed under any rules at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, don't answer this if it's classified, but we all know that we have stealth aircraft, stealth jets.
		It is possible, is it not, that if it were a military stealth aircraft, aside from not assigning some sort of transponder so you know where they are, your other radar would not have picked them up, would it?
		Or would it have?
unidentified		I'm not real sure about that.
		I don't know how well our radar would track self-sider type aircraft.
		At any rate, whenever they come through, they have transponders on, as far as I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This didn't sound like the small F-117 anyway.
unidentified		No, not from what they said.
unidentified		Well, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long have you been doing what you're doing?
unidentified		It's my 11th year here.
unidentified		11 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Other than this particular incident, do you have any reason to believe that there are things flying in our skies for these 11 years?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And not just from your own experience, but talking to other controllers, that there are, in fact, things flying in our skies.
unidentified		Yes.
		I've heard of too many reports from generally the Asian pilots or I guess last year there was a couple of air carrier pilots saw something also.
		And then this morning, as we talked about earlier, Kansas City Center had the executive jet pilots.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
unidentified		And those are fairly high-time jet pilots.
		They've seen a lot.
		And it obviously shook them up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Joe.
		Yes.
		You're using a pseudonym.
		Joe's not your real name.
unidentified		No, it isn't my real name.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is your real name.
unidentified		I was kind of laughing when you...
		That is your name.
		That's my first name, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not too many people, and we're really very thankful to the FAA for their sort of different attitude these days and people like yourself in reporting these things at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Things have really changed because there was a day when pilots, you know, for their jobs, really didn't report these things.
unidentified		Well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's changed?
unidentified		The safety factor is the main thing I'm concerned with, and I'm sure the pilots are too.
		Something moving that fast, you can't miss it if it doesn't want to be, you know, as fast as the air carriers are, they're not as fast as what they saw.
		You don't need something like that up there.
		They don't know it's there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any way you can judge the relative speed of the object based on what they reported?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Obviously, not what you saw.
unidentified		The only report I have to go by is what you played two weeks ago from the pilot that called in.
		And I believe he said something to the effect of he was going 550 knots across the ground, and it just blew past him.
		Well, that's 3,000 knots, I would say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's some disagreement among the actual eyewitnesses, but certainly one, you're correct, Joe.
		Certainly one of the crew members, his impression was that this object was moving very fast, going from their 10 o'clock to their 11.30 position in a relatively short period of time.
		But we'll hear more on that subject from the pilots themselves when they come on after the top of the hour.
		I'm looking forward to that.
		Joe, I really want to thank you for all you've gone through, both in reporting this and, I guess, getting the tape to Peter in time and so forth.
unidentified		It's been my pleasure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you so much, Joe, and you have a good night.
unidentified		All right, you too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks very much.
		Take care.
		There's Joe.
		Now, we're going to bring the pilots on, the air crews, at the top of the hour.
		So we've got a little bit of time between now and the top of the hour, and I know that you've got a stack of reports there to just sort of catch everybody up before we do that.
		What I'd like to do is go back to this incident that occurred over Missouri according to the FAA reports this morning.
		This incident to sort of fill in the gaps.
		The first tape I played was just the original report that we received.
		That was followed by several hours of conversations and investigation and all sorts of things.
		Let me, if I may, play about an 81-second cut.
		This is an edited conversation I had with a supervisor who was on duty in the Kansas City Center this morning.
		And this is what he had to report to us after he'd been briefed on what had been reported by the actual aircraft to Kansas City Center.
		This is the conversation I had with a supervisor.
unidentified		Here we go.
		Good.
		Slightly southwest of Farlington, Missouri, a massive contrail and target that says a puff of smoke with a puff of smoke due east.
		Thought it was a missile.
		The second aircraft at 37,000 feet reported the same traffic on TCAS but no visual.
		Position of second aircraft was approaching 270 or 250 radial and 20 miles off of an intersection down there called Welts.
		Pilots were pretty energetic, shall we say, about their discussion.
		And of course, that's all on tape here at the center.
		If they got it on TCAS, the object must have had a transponder.
		Well, see, that's what I said.
		And the controller selected his alt primary to try to see if he could track it primary or he was getting no return of any sort near these aircraft that were at the visual on this airplane.
		Object whatever it was.
		He said that, in fact, the one airplane came back to his frequency after he was given another frequency and said, I hope you don't think we're goofy about this and breathing funny oxygen.
		But he said, we definitely, everybody in the airplane saw this.
		And the guy said, well, no, that other pilot had indicated he'd seen it as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What this gentleman was describing, you can almost tell he is reading from handwritten notes that had been given to him by the actual controller who talked to these aircraft.
		And I'll play that tape here in just a second.
		All of this was at about 38,000 feet?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One aircraft was at 39,000 feet.
		That was a Learjet.
		And I believe he was headed to the Texas area.
		The other aircraft, a Beach BE-40, an executive jet, I Believe was headed for Raleigh, Durham.
unidentified		And he was at 37,000 feet, 2,000 feet lower.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They both saw the object, as far as I know, at the same time.
unidentified		Once we get the tape from the FAA, we'll know more about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the object went between their altitudes, 1,000 feet or less below the Learjet.
		Oh, my.
		Apparently, somewhat above the other aircraft.
		So it was close to both of them.
		Now, something like that has got to shake the hell out of you.
		Apparently, the crews thought this was a significant event.
		He used the word energetic.
		Energetic was the description.
		I think I would be energetic, too.
		The object looked like a missile.
		I don't know what that means.
		Of course, there are many different types of missiles.
		But in these few remaining minutes, before the top of the hour, let me go to about a minute and 40-second-long cut.
		This is what the air traffic controller actually had to report to us.
		He is the gentleman who actually talked to the two flight crews this morning.
unidentified		This is what he had to report about the incident.
		Good, here we go.
		Well, I was working a sector, and this leer chick asked if I had any traffic out ahead for him.
		And I said, no.
		He said, well, I've got something, you know, about a thousand feet below coming right at me, you know.
		And I said, there was no traffic in the area.
		And he said, it looked like a missile coming at him.
		And I asked if anybody else in the area, there was another aircraft in the area that I had seen anything.
		And he also said that he thought he saw something, too, but he thought it was a little bit lower than that.
		And it all happened kind of fast.
		And that was about it.
		There was no traffic in the area other than those two aircraft.
		And at 39,000 and 37,000 feet, and that was about it.
		And the object was just below him, huh?
		Well, the aircraft 39,000 feet said it was about 1,000 feet below him.
		And he didn't know what it was.
		He said he kept looking for it on his TCAS.
		He had that onboard radar.
		He said it never would pick it up.
		That's what he asked me.
		That was about it.
		So they couldn't pick it up on TCAS.
		No, huh.
		That suggests either the object didn't have a transponder or it was turned off, I gather.
		Is that the case?
		Well, I would guess so.
		I wouldn't.
		Yeah, that's what I would presume.
		I presume he checked radar.
		Is there anything in the radar?
		No, in fact, we have a where we can pick up targets without transponders, and I couldn't pick anything up in the area.
		I put it that one guy that first talked to me, he said he's pretty excited about it or even shook up about it.
		And we went on, we shifted to another frequency.
		They're going along pretty fast.
		And he calls back up on my frequency about seven or eight minutes after it happened.
		And you can tell he's still concerned and asking about, was there a military operating area there?
		I wanted to know what it was.
		And he gets talking about it.
		He said, they just couldn't quit.
		He was pretty shook up about it.
		It sounded like.
		I don't know if I wondered what it was.
		He'd never seen anything like it.
		One of the crews.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what happened.
		Man, I'm telling you, Peter, I'm really starting to get the feeling that all of this is breaking wide open and people aren't going to keep their mouths shut anymore.
		And this is going to push it.
		It's going to push it to the edge, Peter.
		Those objects on the 26th of October and then again this morning, Veterans Day, the 11th of November, as far as I know, I'm not a specialist in this field.
		The pilots whom we're going to bring on here in a few minutes after the top of the hour are.
		I think I will ask them whether they have any possible explanation for why something like this would be at 37,000 feet or so in American airspace unbeknownst to the people on the ground who control those aircraft.
		Well, I think that Joe, the FAA controller we just had on, hit it straight on.
		If for no other reason, safety, in other words, these guys are worried about who's 1,000 feet or 2,000 feet above them or below them or off to one side or the other.
		They all pay very close attention to this kind of thing.
		And if there are stray things, big things going really fast, then, you know, we still don't know what brought down 990.
		As a matter of fact, we don't really know what brought down 800 for sure.
		There is a safety issue here.
		It's crossed my mind too, Art.
		And I think most of all, the American people, the ladies and gentlemen who are listening to us tonight, who ride those aircraft every day of the week, who have loved ones on them, have a right to know.
		They have a right to know.
		And the American government has a responsibility to start answering some questions to the American people.
		That's my opinion.
		Well, that's why I asked Joe whether there was any official channel for him to go through his employer, the federal government, and report this.
		And there isn't.
		And that concerns me too.
		All right, Peter, hold it right there.
		We'll be back, and when we are, we're going to make radio history.
		Stay right there.
unidentified		The mountain high and the valley's gonna be here And here comes to this weather's fire Don't you give a
		finger, don't you die Don't you give a finger, please be out Don't you give a finger, please be out Don't you give a finger, don't you die Don't you give a finger, please be out Don't you give a finger, please be out I'm waiting for my heart to get up.
		Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh I'm going to wait till the
		end, I just can't wait, yeah It's not the only one that I can hear I got a light of the whole party I got a light of the whole She's not, honey She's not, all of the way Wanna take a ride?
		Well, call our bell from west to the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East to the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		The fighter card line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		And to recharge on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with ourselves on the Premier Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		At DAMES is coming up shortly, but before that, we have a little radio history to make.
		I don't think this has ever happened before.
		In the skies of Texas, high above the skies of Texas, there was a UFO spotted by two commercial airline crews.
		We have members of both of those crews on the line.
		In addition, we have Peter Davenport, the man to whom the report was made by the FAA.
		We had Joe, the FAA controller, on in the last hour.
		So coming up in a moment, something I think you've never heard on commercial radio before.
unidentified		Don't touch that dial.
unidentified		The End.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, welcome back, everybody.
		As I mentioned, we've got two members of two airline crews, both of which saw and reported the same thing.
		From the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, once again, here is Peter Davenport.
		It happened in the skies over Texas when, Peter?
		It was on Tuesday morning, just about a little over two weeks ago, Tuesday morning, 26th of October, 1999.
		I think the first call was made at about 02.38 hours on the morning of that Tuesday.
		All right.
		What I want to do just before bringing them on, and by the way, they have never spoken to each other.
		As I called them up, I found out they've never talked to each other, Peter.
		So this should be interesting.
		That's reflective of how busy these gentlemen are, and it underscores, I think, how grateful I am to them for taking this time out at odd hours to appear on this program.
		All right, for those in Chicago who have just joined us, I would like them to have the benefit of the actual FAA tape that you have in your possession with the voices of the people we're about to hear from.
		Would you be so kind as to play that again, please?
		It's loaded and ready to go.
		Again, this is what two flight crews had to report to Fort Worth Center that Tuesday morning, what they saw at their altitude.
		Here we go, two minutes, 40 seconds long, about.
unidentified		We just got a series of three very bright lights.
		It appeared at our 11 o'clock, and we don't know the distance, but 11 o'clock, and it's pretty far out there, I think, probably in the best...
		Maybe 20 miles or so.
		Four nations airplanes turning out there, you know, 314, something.
		I have to go to the CAD lights up before we saw 11 o'clock for no host out fly.
		It should be maybe 50, 100 miles away, but see very bright lights.
		Look like you went left time.
		And then the lights appeared, and now it disappeared.
		Everybody could have the lights on to our radio or something like that?
		Well, there are going back out there, but we don't have anybody anyway now.
		I would tell that.
		And L314, I mean, I don't know if anything called you because that's probably just some kind of anomaly.
		I don't believe they did anything out there about actually 11, 12 o'clock, maybe 10 miles.
		It was Matt Lizard, and I both saw it.
		And I was to tell you, it was very odd.
		People came on the LPC again.
		He said, we don't see any droves or anything usually anyway on the plane.
		The lights were far enough apart that easily the place that the airplanes were closer than floated.
		And usually after the headlights fly away, or the landing lights turn away, the agency's drove to something, but we don't see anything out there.
		Easily with lights in the flight of fleeces and easy.
		At first glance, I would have thought it was an ABC operation, but you know, you don't have to this time of the morning.
		And it was an ABC operation, and those airplanes were a formation, I would say, one of the actual airplanes.
		The lights were flying up apart.
		It would lead me to believe that even an inflammation or even a wide inflammation, they would be closer to us.
		I don't think we're team Roger, and approximately what else do they have?
		That's an output.
		I'd say about an hour altitude, you know, plus or minus a couple thousand feet.
		L-314, Roger, I would definitely know if anybody in your altitude is there.
		Well, it's 92, if you say L-310, yeah.
		Yeah, it's 92, but we're seeing a record.
		Okay, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see.
		Okay, let's see, let's see, let's see.
		Okay, let's see, let's see.
		Yeah.
		We're looking to get some cooperation, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got some corroboration now.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let us bring on the gentleman that did the reporting.
		Let's see if we've got everything together here.
		Captain Carl, are you there?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Good evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the program.
		Thank you very, very much for coming on, as a matter of fact.
		This is the first time I've ever had the pleasure of having a captain of a big airline come on to report something like this.
		Can you tell us a little bit about yourself, Captain?
		You flew, I guess, for the Air Force?
unidentified		Sure, yeah.
		I'm a retired military.
		I flew fighters for 25 years and retired from the reserves in 96.
		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It says you were a Warthog pilot?
unidentified		Yeah, one of those guys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And are you willing to say what kind of aircraft you fly now?
unidentified		737, the new generation 800 models.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		737, 800.
		Ooh, those are the new ones.
		Nice aircraft.
unidentified		So nice, as a matter of fact.
unidentified		Loaded with all kinds of goodies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In what we just heard, Captain, you said at altitude, but you didn't say what altitude.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What altitude roughly were you at?
unidentified		We were at 37,000 feet that night, and the three lights that we saw appear to be at least at our altitude and perhaps higher.
		It's very difficult to tell even where the tops of storms are at altitude.
		And if the storms are any distance from you, because of the curvature of the earth and the speeds we fly, it's sometimes difficult to estimate whether or not you'll clear the top of a storm at altitude.
		So it's even more difficult to estimate altitude at night, certainly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you convinced, Captain, that what you saw were three separate aircraft, or is it possible you were seeing one craft of some type?
unidentified		Well, I saw the write-up on Mr. Davenport's website, and it implied that there was one object with three lights on it, a sizable object.
		That was not my impression.
		Having done lots of night air refueling and joined up on one or more tankers in formation who had their lights on, that was my first impression.
		It appeared to be a flight of three tankers, if you will, Air Force tankers.
		And back in the days when I used to do that, we would often approach each other head-on at altitude, and the tankers would be 1,000 feet higher than we would be.
		And they would have other lights illuminated, of course, for visibility to aid us in spotting the tankers for the rejoin.
		And then at about 09 miles or so, they would be at co-speed, generally in the neighborhood of 250, 260 knots, and they would start a 180-degree turn, and we would join up behind them.
		That is, again, my first impression of what I saw.
		Three large transport category airplanes with landing lights on.
		However, these lights were, I'd say, 30 to 40 percent brighter than what I was normally used to seeing.
		And that led me to believe that these airplanes, if they were in fact airplanes, were closer and certainly close enough for radar to have picked them up.
		And when they just turned and disappeared, at 3.30 in the morning my time, or 3.40 in the morning my time, it's something you have a little time to talk about.
		So I just thought I'd ask the center what they had out there, just out of curiosity.
		You said a left turn.
		That's what it appeared like to me.
		The co-pilot, and my co-pilot disputed that.
		He said that he thought the lights just simply faded as if they were turned down by a reuspend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I think we have Jose on the line, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you there, Jose?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Jose is a co-pilot for what we'll call Southern Airlines, another major airlines, and he flies, you want to tell us the kind of aircraft you fly?
unidentified		Airbus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An Airbus A320.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you were where with respect to Captain Carl?
unidentified		Actually, he was about 100 miles to my left, about my 11 o'clock position over Dallas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would the two of you have been able to see each other?
unidentified		I could see him.
unidentified		He would have to look backwards to see me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		And again, Captain Carl, you said left turn.
		So it either faded out or made a left turn or sort of started left and then faded?
unidentified		Well, again, my impression was they appear to be what I would characterize as tankers or transport category aircraft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Except they weren't.
unidentified		Well, who knows what they were?
		They started what appeared to me to be a left turn, and it was just like what I was used to seeing in a rejoin for a refueling operation.
		And the lights just faded from view, consistent with what I've seen for years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wouldn't these kind of aircraft have a transponder operating in that kind of busy airspace?
unidentified		They certainly would.
		Sure, of course.
		If they were military airplanes and they were conducting in normal operations, they certainly would have a transponder limited.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if not, then they could be at least painted with radar, regular radar.
unidentified		Well, you'll have to talk to your traffic control experts about that.
		Believe it or not, a lot of the data received by the guys at the center is transmitted by the transponders themselves, which really enhances the target imaging.
		Well, that has to do a lot with the between aircraft.
		The ATC will not be able to see that.
		Jose, did you...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that, in essence, what you saw, or did you have a different view?
unidentified		Actually, it was totally different.
		What I saw was it wasn't so much that I've been refueling as well.
		I flew the F-16, but I never saw anything like this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You flew the F-16 for the Air Force as well.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		F-16.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		F-16.
unidentified		Out of the hog.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, I got you.
		And so you've never seen anything like this.
		You've seen typical refueling formations before.
		In what way did this differ?
unidentified		Oh, it differed quite a bit.
		Refueling lights on the bottom coming in on DC-10s, KC-10s, should I say, or 135s, are totally different from this.
		From the respect of how far it was, you have your wing lights, which you have on your airliners, and you have them as well on tankers and whatnot, but you never see them this bright.
		The lights we use for refueling are underneath.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're both saying they were 30, 40% brighter or more?
unidentified		Yeah, definitely.
unidentified		Not a light you normally see, unless you're sitting about five feet in front of it, and one of the airliners turns on their taxi lights.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For the two of you, if nothing else, is this a big safety issue?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Something's out there flying around like this that nobody can identify that close to commercial airliners?
unidentified		I would say so.
		Personally, I would say so.
		What it was, I have no idea.
		If it was something that we do have, why would it be over in Dallas, Texas?
		I don't think it.
		But of course it would be.
		The fact that you can't see it on radar is even worse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any way that either one or both of you can estimate the speed of this object based on your speed?
unidentified		No, I don't think so.
		It's difficult to tell speeds.
		It's virtually impossible for us to tell speeds of other objects or other airplanes.
		That's true.
		It is tough to tell how fast other guys are going.
		Personally, I was going about 0.8.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		0.8 Mach.
unidentified		0.8 Mach.
		And that's basically what we cruise.
		800, I have no clue what they cruise that being the newer airplane.
		We're about the same both work.
		Okay.
		And from our perspective, it was moving a little bit faster.
		From the position of where you guys were and where we were, it was moving a little bit faster.
		I would have thought initially, what are fighters doing up here torching their afterburners and moving so fast in the formation?
		And they did start to move forward in a faster manner than us, and we're only going 0.8.
		And their movement would indicate to me at least that they were at least going 0.9 for a fighter.
		And that's what initially we thought they were about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did either one of you see the formation break?
		In other words, we were discussing whether it might be a single aircraft or several aircraft.
		One might imagine you'd see some change in the formation indicating somebody was moving out of position.
		Did you see that?
unidentified		No, it was consistent with a formation of three airplanes turning together and then they faded together.
		They never went apart.
		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Faded together.
unidentified		Right.
		Well, the whole three, the bright lights.
		The bright lights faded all at the same time and consistent with a turn or a left turn of large airplanes.
		My question for Jose is, I'm not aware of any fighters that have landing lights that are bright, number one.
		Number two, I'm not aware of any fighters, and I could be wrong, it could be my ignorance, but no fighters that I know can turn on their landing lights unless their landing gear is extended.
		And if they're 37,000 feet, their true airspeed would be so high that they couldn't extend the landing gear.
		So that's what makes me believe it was not any kind of a fighter aircraft.
		I agree with you.
		They didn't look like anything I've seen.
		The first thought we had was there's three F, well, there's three fighters up there torching their afterburners and moving in a fast pace.
		And it faded somewhat, but nothing like a fighter would.
		There are no aircraft and fighters that I know of that have lights that bright at that altitude.
		And if they did, I have no idea why they would have put them on, but because we never did that at altitude.
		Well, the two of you, we didn't either, so I have no idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the two of you are 100 miles apart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it likely you would have both seen the lights fade or disappear at the same time?
unidentified		We had to have.
		I would think so.
		Of course, Jose had the additional advantage of being able to see us.
		We could not see him because he was kind of behind us, but also gives him some a little bit maybe better perspective on their movement because he had something to compare it to in the sky.
		We had nothing.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gentlemen, if you would hold on for a moment.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		We'll take a brief break and come back and finish with you.
		I don't think you've ever heard this on the radio before.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		And we're talking about something that happened in the skies over Texas on 26 October 99.
		It just happened.
		We'll be right back.
		Don't touch that dial.
unidentified		He made this way.
		He made this way.
		Pizza Laura contained a crime.
		She comes out of the sun and a sunfest run.
		And I for what a cup of wind.
		Don't bother us for explanation.
		She was done in the chicken in the air of the cat.
		To reach our bell in the Kingdom of Nye.
		From west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the Toll-Free International line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and add them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		We're talking about something that happened over Texas on the 26th of October at about 0, 238 hours, 2.38 in the morning, I presume local time, about 38,000 feet or so.
		We've got two crew members from separate major airline crews.
		We're not going to identify the airlines.
		One was a Boeing 737-800, brand new, and the other, an Airbus A320.
		And once again, along with Peter Davenport, gentlemen, you're back on the air again.
		So, Captain Carl, you said that it was very much like a refueling operation, but I guess without a transponder operating, without the air traffic controller being aware of it occurring in the area, it seems unlikely that's what it was, or if it was, then it was irresponsible.
		Is that fair?
unidentified		Well, I'm not so sure it was irresponsible.
		The military does conduct black operations, but the inconsistency there is that they're conducting a black operation.
		I'm not sure if there's any obligation to report that to air traffic control, especially at that time of night if they're at sufficiently high altitude.
		It wouldn't happen over Dallas.
		It wouldn't happen over Dallas, Texas, right.
		It would be over the Adriatic, you know, to deal with the Bosni operation or something like that.
		You know, we would refuel out there and turn things off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, irresponsible, I guess, is a strong word, but in very busy airspace up at the altitude where you guys fly, it is sort of irresponsible, it seems to me.
		So, as you point out, they'd probably be somewhere else.
		You seemed very anxious to have this reported.
		We talked to Joe, the air traffic controller, and he said you seemed very anxious to have this reported to somebody.
unidentified		Well, Joe and I were talking about this while you were on break, and I was interested in what we saw at first, and then I became very interested when I learned from ATC that they had nothing on radar.
		And the lights I saw were bright enough that if they were, in fact, tanker aircraft or transport category aircraft, they definitely would have been within 10 miles of us.
		And if that were the case, then they would have been, if not talking to the same controller I was talking to, they would have been talking to the guy in the next sector.
		And if my memory serves, neither the guy that we talked to or the guy in the next sector, which he checked with on the landline, had anything out there at all.
		And I seem to recall, I'm not sure if this is true or not, but I seem to recall that they checked the sector beyond that even in that direction.
		And no one had anything on radar at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Captain, how do you feel about reporting?
		Both of you feel about reporting this sort of thing.
		Do you have qualms about it career-wise?
unidentified		I do not.
		Personally, I do not.
		It doesn't bother me.
		We all saw something.
		We all have a pretty consistent view as to what it was.
		It either existed or it didn't exist.
		And say what you will, but we saw the objects, and nobody knows what they were, and nobody has anything on radar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In your years of flying, have you seen anything like it before?
unidentified		I never have.
		I've been doing this for about 31 years now, and I've never seen anything that I could label a UFO or anything that couldn't be explained, at least in some fashion.
		And when I called Mr. Davenport the other day, I think one of the first things I said to him is I said, I never thought I'd be calling UFO Reporting Center hotline, you know, because I'm not sure that I believe in these kinds of things, but at the same time, I'm pretty open-minded about just about everything.
		And I think there's a lot of things that are possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And UMIs.
unidentified		Absolutely, sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jose, how about you reporting these things?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever seen anything like this before?
unidentified		I've flown in the military.
		I've been flying in the military since 1979.
		And I've never seen anything like this.
		Even though I've done a lot of refueling, done a lot of different things in the military.
		But I can honestly say, but at this altitude, what I saw was nothing I've ever seen.
		And we basically saw some type of shape.
		But if we do have it, why are we flying it over Dallas?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, indeed, over Dallas.
		You said some sort of shape.
		Do you lean more towards the possibility that this was one single object as opposed to three, Jose?
unidentified		Yes, I do.
		I honestly do because the fact that the formation was so perfect.
		As the lights dimmed, you could actually see something, a faint outline between the lights.
		If you ask Captain Carl, he'll say that his photo reported the same thing.
		Right, my co-pilot said that.
		Now, he said that there was an interconnect of some description, and I did not see that.
		And I attributed both Jose's comment and my co-pilot's comment to perhaps glare on the windshield or just something in the glass.
		Well, myself personally, we had all the lights off, so I cannot contribute that to any glare whatsoever.
		I would say there could be a possibility of seeing a faint contrail at that altitude, but to see it in two different axis, should I say, you see it from one light to another and one light to the other, I can't say that.
		But that is a possibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		After seeing this, do the two of you have sort of a different attitude about what might be up there?
unidentified		Well, like they say, you know, it would be a total waste of space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a great line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're exactly right.
unidentified		That's true.
unidentified		Well, Peter, could I get just a brief question in here, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Principally for Jose, who saw those apparently those faint white lines between the lights as the lights faded out.
unidentified		As the lights faded, did they all dim at the same rate?
		Yes, they did.
		They did.
		At least from my point of view, yes, they did.
		I agree with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were all on one rheostat, and somebody was just trying to click.
unidentified		Somebody went down the stairs and turned them all down at the same time.
		That's what it appeared from our talk that, yes, they all just started dimming.
		It's not like a quick out and they're gone.
		It dimmed very, very slowly.
		And if your eyesight's still pretty good, you can see it for a little bit longer.
		But yes, it dimmed very, very slowly.
		Yeah, I agree with that.
		Boy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's hard to imagine, for example, three aircraft in formation, let's say a military formation, and if they were afterburners, for example, everybody retarding power so precisely that their afterburners would all look the same as they got smaller and shorter.
unidentified		Yeah, even the Thunderbirds aren't that good.
		No, they're not.
		In fact, they'll be over here in actually where the last triangular thing was in Phoenix coming up here this weekend.
		So I have to watch it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, both of you gentlemen should know there was an incident over in Missouri in which a couple of, I guess, a Learjet pilot, was it Peter?
		Yeah, Lear and a Beach BE-40 pilot.
		Both saw something similar to what you saw, go shooting by them and shook them up, but good.
		So there's a lot going on in the skies, and you gentlemen are not alone.
		But I want to thank you both for coming on.
		Is there anything either one of you want to add?
unidentified		Go for it, Carl.
		No, I would like to hear more from Air Traffic Control just to know how exhaustive or how thorough an after-action investigation they conducted just to see if anybody had any kind of traffic in any other sectors.
		The only other explanation I could come up with for what we saw, if there were not three transport category aircraft, would be I'm not sure if this is really possible, and it doesn't seem to be possible on a night like the night we had the other night, but perhaps it was some kind of reflection of actual aircraft that were much, much further away than they appeared off of some layer in the atmosphere that I'm not aware of.
		I'm not even sure that's possible.
		I've heard like a reverse mirage effect or something like that.
		Well, that's kind of interesting to hear that I think it'd be kind of difficult at that time.
		Well, the only reason I just discount that theory, I mean, I brought it up because I'm just looking for possibilities, but the reason I discount that theory is because on a nice, clear, cold night like that, I don't think any kind of inversion layer would exist, and the upper altitude winds would certainly destroy it.
		But I just have absolutely no other explanation.
		And again, the thing that still lingers to pique my curiosity is the fact that we all thought the lights were very bright.
		They should have been very close.
		And there was nothing on radar at all.
		Exactly.
		I would go the same way and think with that whole situation, it does awaken me a little bit more.
		I never thought I would see anything like that whatsoever.
		I've heard people say things, and you're very skeptic about what they say and what you see and what they would do, but you just never know.
		And now you fly with a different perspective.
		You really do.
		You can wake up up there at night, especially at night now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It might do you both good to know that the air traffic control.
		I asked the air traffic controller that we had on in the first hour if there was any official channel for him to report this to within the federal government.
		He works for the federal government.
		He said no.
		There really isn't.
unidentified		Right, I think the Air Force dropped Project Blue Book, which was the memory serves, which was the official UFO reporting office, if you will.
		And they dropped that some years ago, whether it be for funding or whatever, but they discontinued Operation Blue Book, at least as far as I know, as far as the public is concerned.
		That was done away with some years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, gee whiz, if for no other reason than safety, maybe we ought to have it going again if we keep getting these reports with this kind of frequency from people like you.
unidentified		Well, the FAA wants to come up with this new program called, what is it, Jose, Free Flight, where everybody's going to be doing their own air traffic controlling.
		Excuse me, that makes me a little bit uncomfortable.
		I think that's a way to go.
		Really?
		Well, they seem to think that the technology exists for us to be able to use basically super TCAS to conduct our own air traffic control separation at altitude.
		I'm not real keen on that idea.
		It would be a long time coming.
		Personally, I don't think our union, nor would our airline, go for something like that because there's a lot of factors that go into flying at night.
		And yes, it's easy to see lights in the distance.
		And transponder or not, you never know how a little electric shock or a little thunderstorm in the area could affect electrics like that.
		But I don't know about that.
		I wouldn't bet that that's going to be in the making anytime really soon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, gentlemen, I want to thank you both for coming on the air, and welcome to the club.
unidentified		Okay, well, thanks very much.
unidentified		We'll definitely be more awake and alert in the future on the red ice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're all for that anyway.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, and good night, gentlemen.
unidentified		Thank you enough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, there you go.
		Peter, boy, what a report that was.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, what a report that was.
		And if you listen carefully to Captain Carl, he sounded like he did not want to believe what he saw and was reaching out.
		This is my interpretation, and was reaching out for any other explanation that just might explain it.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I think properly so, because we do not know what that object was.
		We don't know what those three lights were.
		Anomalous.
		Yes, they were anomalous, but that doesn't mean that they necessarily came from somewhere other than this planet.
		I suspect there are a lot of things that our military and our intelligence agencies are working on that I guess conceivably could explain that.
		But it comes back to the points that both those gentlemen made, and that is, why would they do it over Dallas?
		Why would they be flying in commercial airlines and not be talking to the air traffic control system?
		Why would they not show up on radar?
		Why do they not have a transponder?
		Why are their lights anomalous?
		Why do they not have standard lighting systems to alert other aircraft?
		I mean, if because of any one of those anomalies, if they bump into somebody up there and cause a disaster, then the people who put it there are on the hook for liability.
		Well, the air crew member just said it would be such a terrible waste of space.
		Peter, we're out of time.
		You're the National UFO Reporting Center.
		You are supported by donations.
		The address, if you would like to make some, and we would love that, is P.O. Box 45623 University Station, Seattle, Washington.
		Zip code 98145.
		I'll give that again.
		The National UFO Reporting Center.
		P.O. Box 45623 University Station, Seattle, Washington, zip code 98145.
		And there is an emergency 24-hour hotline.
		If something is happening right now, you can call area code 206-722-3000.
		That's 206-722-3000, 24 hours a day.
		One hell of a report, Peter.
		Thank you.
		Yeah, thank you.
		I'd like to say on those hours, prefer 8 a.m. to midnight, and this has been a 17-hour day for me, so if it's non-emergency tonight, I'd ask that people delay their calls until a later day if they could.
		In other words, unless you've got a saucer 20 feet away, Peter wants to get some sleep tonight.
unidentified		Unless they're small and gray and I'm your hood ornament.
unidentified		Don't call me tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Peter.
unidentified		Thanks, Sergeant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Been a pleasure.
		Good night.
		All right.
		We only have a couple of moments before the top of the hour, but as many of you know, most of you know, the U.S. government for 20 years conducted with $20 million or more a secret experiment in the ability of the human mind to be able to detect things and objects at a great distance,
		the other side of the world, gas canisters in Iraq, what have you.
		It was called and is called remote viewing.
		And we're about to embark into the world of major Ed Danes.
		And so I will warn you, as if the last couple of hours did not, that we're going to be dealing with topics that are pretty far out there.
		In fact, in some cases, really far out there.
		And so if you have children in the room, I suggest you dispatch them to something more comforting.
		If you, even you yourself, are subject to being scared by a prediction.
		And I know that Ed would chaff at the word prediction.
		It's not prediction as far as Ed is concerned.
		It is simply what is seen.
		And we'll describe a little bit of that to you as we talk about remote viewing in general.
		But what we've got coming up for you is going to be nothing short of absolutely fascinating.
		For example, the two pilots that you just heard on, the pilot and co-pilot of different major aircraft flying in the skies over Texas, earlier today, I guess I should tell you, I asked Ed to take a look at this situation for me.
		And he has done that, I presume.
		He has also looked at Flight 990, Egypt Air Flight 990.
		Now, more of a mystery than ever.
		The more we find out about this, the more we realize we don't know.
		So coming up after the break, it's SciTech's Major Ed Dames, and we're going to cover all kinds of ground.
		So be warned, some pretty strange stuff lies directly ahead.
		In the meantime, I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Coast AM
		Coast AM
		Oh, yeah.
		crossing in from home as you turn around today Wanna take a ride?
		Call our bell from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
		The wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		And to call out on the full-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them via 800-893-0903.
		This is Coaster Coast AM with IPL from the Kingdom of Nive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you folks, there's a lot of high weirdness going on out there that we will add to, I guess, tonight.
		A couple of quick items.
		Ed Dames is coming right up.
		Egypt Air.
		The mystery of Egypt Air Flight 990 has deepened yet again today after examination flight data recorder indicated that, get this, folks, everything was normal until the autopilot disengaged and the plane suddenly descended.
		Ed Prawler, head of the Aeronautics and Astronautics Department of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said a sudden decompression could have occurred from an explosive device gripping a hole in the fuselage.
		High seas today halted the search for the plane's other black box, that of the cockpit voice recorder.
		And this one really, really is a mystery.
		And I'm going to add to that mystery a little bit right now for you.
		I was sent the following from the Boston Herald, or at least a copy of the Boston Herald newspaper.
		And I would presume somebody who was local to that area, Richard Brokaw is his name, was one of the unfortunate 217 victims of the downing of 990.
		And in part, this is what jolted me when I read it, and I immediately passed it naturally on to Richard Hoagland, who has, I believe, the whole thing on his website.
		But quoting this article in part, referring to Mr. Brokaw and what he had done in his life, it says, After the war, Mr. Brokaw obtained a Ph.D. in physical chemistry from Princeton University.
		He worked, brace yourself, for NASA at the Lewis Research Center in Cleveland, Ohio, where he specialized in combustion research and the physical chemistry of high-temperature gases.
		In 1972, he was awarded the NASA Medal for Exceptional Scientific Achievement.
		He retired in 1973 as director of the Division of Physics and Chemistry after 22 years, 22 years with NASA.
		And he was on flight 990, Egypt Air 990, for some reason, we don't yet know why, on his way to Egypt.
		And we thought we should pass that information on to you.
		And I know Richard on his website has a more detailed recitation of the Boston Herald article that I sent him earlier today.
		But that definitely caught my attention.
		And you can certainly imagine it caught Richard's.
		Coming up in a moment, SciTech's Major Ed Dames.
		All right, all right, all right.
		Here comes somebody who is actually involved in the U.S. government remote viewing program.
		He's in the private sector now.
		He heads a company called SciTech.
		He is now based not in California where he was, but as he told us he would do, somewhere in the Hawaiian Islands.
		Here is SciTech's Major Ed Dames.
		Ed, welcome to the program.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Arthur Bell.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Arthur Dames at your service.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's great to have you back.
		Always, Ed.
		Always.
		Listen, there is so much going on that I almost don't know where to start.
		But I think I would like to start with what we just heard.
		Earlier today, I told you I gave you the rough outline of what was going to be on the air tonight.
		You know, two commercial airline pilot crews coming on and laying out what they actually saw.
		And I said, if you have time, take a look at this if you would.
		It occurred over the skies of Texas.
		And I even told you, I think, the airline companies, which I'm not mentioning on the air.
		And so you got to hear them.
		And I wonder if earlier today you took a look at this.
		I realize it's not enough time to really get into something like this, but what did you come up with?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		It was enough time.
		Technical remote viewing is a pretty good problem-solving tool.
		And it's rapid.
		In cases like this, anybody with intermediate skills in TRV could solve a problem like this in about an hour and a half or two hours.
		So I did look at it, but I wanted good target reference material.
		I went to Peter Davenport's website, and I downloaded the little paragraph on that October 26 incident.
		And so I looked at this anomaly.
		Now, when I target something like this, our brain is an oscillator, and our unconscious mind has access to all things as patterns of information.
		But I need to turn my unconscious attention to the right target so that I can objectify the data into my conscious awareness in terms of words or sketches and make sure I'm on the right target.
		So I don't necessarily call this an unidentified object.
		I don't assume in my business that what is there, what meets the eye, is real.
		It could be an artifact in the brains of the observer pilots, for instance, and not an object at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that does seem unlikely in the case of two separate crews 100 miles apart.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		It does.
		I agree with you, but I take nothing for granted.
		We go into a problem clean.
		So I call this only an anomaly, an anomalous event.
		That's it.
		That's enough.
		We don't want to inject noise into the search terms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you just go to look for an anomalous event on that date above the Texas skies near Dallas-Fort Worth.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Using Peter Davenport's report, because that's important.
		That way, this chain of custody, his mind, his consciousness, is focused on the pilot's report.
		Gotcha.
		They observe something that they called an anomaly, and I use Peter Davenport's report, so this chain of custody, so to speak, at the unconscious level.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, okay.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		That was not an alien object.
		We talked about alien objects before, but it was a real object, a single object, not three.
		Those were not lights.
		Those were control surfaces.
		That was an electro-hydrodynamic vehicle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A was?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		It was an electro-hydrodynamic vehicle.
		It's a new generation post-stealth.
		Stealth is about 20 years old now.
		And just as the SR-71, this super performance observation aircraft that we had is now mothballed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Stealth is about to be mothballed too.
		This is something that is beyond stealth.
		It doesn't use propellants.
		Propellants are primitive.
		Very, very primitive.
		So the Air Force, 15, almost 20 years ago now, was looking at new modes, new modalities of propulsion, advanced propulsion, and the idea of using a propellant that gets used up in the atmosphere was really even 20 years ago beginning to be considered primordial.
		So surfaces, electrohydrostatic surfaces, were one of the options that were thought about as an advanced aircraft.
		I use the term aircraft loosely.
		The way this works, I think you're familiar somewhat with the concept.
		It's an advanced propulsion vehicle, and it converts electrical energy into kinetic energy.
		And it has to be done and finessed in a very fine way, similar to a Porsche engine.
		If it's not tuned exactly right, it doesn't run at all.
		So what this craft does, I'll call it a craft, it's a manned Vehicle.
		There's a complement of two in it, a pilot, co-pilot.
		It is a delta-shaped wing, and the lights that the pilots are reporting are actually ionized surfaces.
		And instead of a jet engine, you have an ionized surface that changes the hydrostatic pressure in this dielectric media called air.
		It pulses a positive and negative charge outward, and this thing pulls itself along by its bootstraps electromagnetically through the atmosphere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Like a capacitor would being turned on and off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Those are loose descriptions.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		And that is this new generation of vehicles that we have, and they're very, very fast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll say this, Ed.
		If we don't have them, I would be more surprised than not.
		In other words, obviously stealth is now old news, really old news, as you pointed out.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		We tested at night, remember?
		Stealth was one of the best protected secrets that this country had.
		All the flights were flown at night.
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But we've got to be now generations, plural, ahead of stealth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what do you say?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Sir, this is prototype number three.
		This is an advanced prototype of what was called Aurora in the past.
		This is an advanced prototype.
		It's almost ready.
		It's probably a fielded version of a very fast attack bomber.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The only thing that puzzles me is why such an aircraft would be in really busy commercial airspace over Dallas.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Because it can see everything else, Art.
		It has no problem avoiding anything, any bogeys.
		It might as well be civilian aircraft.
		It can fly through them like a skier on a slalom.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Ed, if that's what it was, it's scaring the hell out of flight crews.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Well, it really will scare the hell out of a potential enemy because in its bomb bay, it's a delivery system for nuclear weapons.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		So it's a lot more scarier to a potential enemy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear that.
		All right.
		We're going to cover a million things tonight, Ed, but you predicted a biological attack in New York.
		Specifically, you mentioned Shea Stadium.
		Remember that?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		I was saying that what Nostradamus was looking at the king of terror.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were actually remote viewing Nostradamus' Quatrain.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		We're trying to get behind Nostradamus' Quatrain to put into contemporary vernacular what this 15th century Frenchman was seeing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, I've got somebody who has faxed the following.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they wonder, though, even though it was a little later time-wise, which I know with remote viewing, time is the most difficult timelines, most difficult thing to assess.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Because mind is outside of time.
		Time is fourth dimension.
		Mind is in the fifth dimension, so it looks down on them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So this person says, you know what, I think Ed was right.
		Look at this West Nile fever, so-called, that emerged where?
		In New York in September.
		And we've done a lot on the West Nile thing, and there's a very strong probability, Ed, that it was a manufactured virus.
		The people, the scientists that Lynn Molten Howe talked to said it's either one of two things, a natural mutation or a man-made mutation, the West Nile virus.
		Now, could that have been what you saw?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		No.
		No, we were very specific.
		In fact, I remember Nightline, Ted Coppel's Nightline a few weeks ago had an entire scenario that matched my report on your show about the potential use of anthrax on a subway or a stadium.
		The reason that was released is to decompress the public because intelligence agencies really know that something like that is in the offing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean decompress?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Decompression is a desensitization to prepare the public for such a scenario.
		And sometimes intelligence agencies will purposely leak information because they wring their hands.
		They can't stop an event like that.
		And they want to be able to at least alert the public in some way to do something.
		So sometimes news media will be used as vehicles, conduits for information like that.
		Not your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really interesting.
		Oh, I don't know about that.
		I mean, people find ways to get information to me from credible sources that want to remain anonymous.
		And I really mean credible.
		I get these reports, and I just, I guess I'm at a point in my life where I don't give a damn anymore.
		So I usually report them to the audience.
		I mean, if I hear it, I report it.
		And then something turns out to be true.
		So more times than not.
		So I think they use my program at.
		I'm used.
		I have no doubt about it.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Westnow virus variant appears to be of natural origin.
		Etiology is the same as basically any other virus.
		It just aircraft fly so fast and so often and carry so many people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		We're going to see these what was called orphan diseases in the past because they were subtropical being carried into temperate climes and mutations will do just fine now.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Mosquito-borne diseases in the East Coast, it's real now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, you predicted more and more of this emerging viruses.
		You can call them whether they're emerging from labs or just from nature.
		And they are definitely emerging.
		We're getting more and more of them.
		The scientists are now a little bit worried.
		The mosquitoes are going to go dormant.
		And they're a little bit worried about what's going to happen in the spring when they come alive again.
		And should they be concerned, Ed?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Absolutely.
		Not just about viral infections, but bacterial infections, too.
		diseases will ravage us?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The environment seems to be producing, getting harsher and harsher.
		Surely the weather has changed.
		It's not just changing.
		It has changed, Ed.
		And we can talk about why that's happened.
		The sun is going nuts right now.
		I just looked at it a few minutes ago.
		We've got 320 rounded sunspots, and we're just really cranking up toward the peak.
		CNN has been running a story saying the other Y2K problem, and they've been doing a lot on the sun.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		That's what Sitek's been saying for two and a half years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're dead right, Ed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dead right.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we said it would eclipse Y2K, literally and figuratively.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold it right there.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		I'm going to smile by the wind.
		Throw the sky in a thin.
		I did you know, I bought the fear.
		I made it in the top.
		I did all.
		I have to feel what didn't have to stop.
		I'm going all sky high by telling me a lie.
		Without a reason.
		No.
		I see dreams of queen closest view.
		I see them blue fucking huge.
		And I think to myself, what a wonderful world.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the Wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To reach out on the Toll-Free International line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you know this song was recently voted the greatest song of all time?
unidentified		I see friends shaking, saying I'm thinking, oh, they're really saying I'm looking, I can't think it's right.
		I watch them grow, they're like much more, and I don't know, and I think tomorrow.
		And I agree with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If I'd have had to cast my vote, I'd have done that too.
		Welcome.
		Ed Dames is here.
		A remote viewer at Dames from SciTech, private company.
		He was very much involved in the official U.S. government secret project.
		And when that terminated, they say, he formed a private company and now resides in Hawaii for reasons that will become apparent.
		In a moment, we're going to ask about Egypt Air Flight 990.
		Pfizer will introduce a new drug that will treat dog breath.
		Once again, here's Major Ed Dames.
		Ed, the country has been gripped.
		CNN went into full-time coverage when the Egypt Air 990 went down.
		Originally, they thought it went straight down from 33,000 feet down to smash in the ocean in 36 seconds.
		Now, we have learned through radar data and the retrieval of the black box that this aircraft, for some absolutely mysterious reason, went from 33,000 feet down to 16 and then up to about 23 and then to the ocean.
		In other words, it did what the FAA called a controlled descent.
		They actually use those words and came down from 33,000 feet, something you just don't do in a commercial airliner without notification of ground control and that sort of thing, and then plunged into the ocean.
		It actually also climbed from that altitude just prior to the plunge.
		So there's the autopilot disconnected.
		There's all kinds of mysteries surrounding what the hell happened to Egypt Air 990.
		You've looked at it.
		What have you found?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Well, first I'd like to express my condolences to those who lost loved ones aboard that flight.
		And as many of your listeners know, we have a good example of the way that we attack a problem like this on our website.
		You remember the letters and the reports that we sent to the NTSB on TWA Flight 800, where we said that the air-driven pump in System 3, that is the right inboard engine, that pump shattered and the shrapnel punctured the fuel tank, that it was indeed a mechanical error.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's absolutely what you said, yes.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		And that full report, along with our diagrams and descriptions, is available on our website as well as media that you can view if you're interested in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that is, by the way, the most conventionally bought explanation for what happened.
		So, okay.
		That was slight 800.
		Now this one.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Now this one.
		So the way as technical remote viewers, the way that we attack the problem is to simply look for this pattern of information, cause and effect.
		We know what the effect is.
		The effect is a crash, a crashed aircraft.
		And we're looking for the cause.
		And those two patterns of information are directly linked in the collective unconscious.
		So it's an easily searchable term.
		And it doesn't take a lot of skill to ferret out the answer.
		So Egypt Air Flight 990 crashed and we're looking for the cause of that crash.
		That's how we search this.
		After about 45 minutes of work, we have an answer.
		The answer is that there was a very violent altercation in the cockpit art.
		One of the crew members, or it could have been a flight attendant, it was not a passenger, attacked the pilot from behind.
		There was a very violent altercation that followed.
		Members of the crew tried to hold down a single individual, but the individual got up again and started and essentially went postal in the cockpit.
		That is why when the cockpit voice recorder is retrieved, you'll hear that on the recorder.
		That should be retrievable as soon as the C's reach lower levels.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here's a question for you, and this calls for speculation, unfortunately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If that's what occurred, will they, assuming they recover the cockpit voice recorder, would they release that, Ed, or not?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Actually, that's an interesting question.
		My fiancé asked me that yesterday.
		And I think that the answer is yes, because you're dealing with the safety of passengers.
		If something breaks on an aircraft, the airline industry needs to know that, and people need to know that so that that fix occurs.
		If something is wrong with a crew member, in this case, I know a little about the crew member.
		This individual was not balanced, felt very offended at something, and that's as much as I know.
		I did not go into the individual's mind or backtrack to his home life.
		It was a male.
		I think that it was a male that attacked the pilot from behind, yes.
		Either a crew member or possibly a flight attendant.
		It was not one of the passengers.
		The passengers were oblivious to this until the plane descended.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow, I don't know what to say to that.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Well, it will come out.
		I'm pretty sure they've got a lock on the cockpit voice recorder.
		So if they retrieve that, it's going to have to come out.
		And the reason it would have to come out is because simply to better screen crew members in the future for stability, emotional, mental stability.
		I think that even something like that would have to occur.
		We do that in our armed forces in submarine crews, for instance.
		I think the same criteria should be applied.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'd never fail to blow me away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Every time you're on this program, I think you're going one place and you go someplace altogether different.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's just direct knowledge.
		We all have these conspiracy theories and we think mind tries to figure it out.
		But the truth is always very simple, very direct.
		That's why I love my work.
		Remote viewing is a great tool.
		It gets you right to the answers.
		Nothing hides.
		Even more interesting is to turn the tool onto oneself.
		Take a look at those unanswered questions in your own life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know that certainly in all the early years you worked with real nuts and bolts stuff.
		I mean, remote viewing can be called nuts and bolts.
		It really can't.
		But I mean, looking for gas canisters or looking for biological development areas or that sort of thing for our governments.
		And now, at some point there, you began to see anomalous phenomena, various sorts of anomalous phenomena, which began leaking into the information retrieval.
		That actually began even during the military aspect of what you did and certainly has followed on and even gone a lot further, I think, with SciTech.
		And when was it that began to happen, and how did you handle that?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think you're referring to the UFO problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe, not just that.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Another enigma.
unidentified		Enigma.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Well, anomalies.
		We have to remember that as humans, think of ourselves as a sensory system.
		We're bandwidth limited in terms of our eyesight.
		We can only see so far, just a little bit into the ultraviolet, a little bit into the infrared if we're lucky sometimes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Other creatures that have eyes or visual receptors, things that appear in the ultraviolet to us that might be anomalous, such as a ghost, for instance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or one of Jose Escamelia's rods, for instance.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		Something that is so fast the eye cannot pick it up.
		That's what I mean by bandwidth limited.
		We can't process information of a phenomenon that is too slow, or, for instance, the growth of a plant.
		That's too slow for us to process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, we don't see it.
		We can sit there and stare at it.
		We don't see it even though it is occurring.
unidentified		Yes.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Or something like something that's very rapid.
		Our brain does not process information like that.
		So to us, to detect something like that on, let's say, a film, a camera, we would call that an anomaly.
		But in fact, it's just part of nature.
		It's part of the natural world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's actually all around us, and we don't have the slightest hint of it because of our limited bandwidth.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Either that or that it has not presented itself to us before.
		It's not in our experiential database.
		We could live and die, perhaps, and never have been presented with, let's say, a tornado or something like that.
		And when it occurs, it would definitely be an anomaly because we haven't seen it before.
		It would be a discontinuity in our experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		There's apparently a lot of that out there, this anomalous phenomena.
		And it's a big step from a gas canister in Iraq to some sort of being or presence or a ghost.
		Something, UFOs.
		All of these are perfect examples of things that are outside of our frame of reference, and yet you ran into them anyway.
		And what I'm wondering is how disruptive that was to what you were doing.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		We ran into a lot of things like that.
		And I don't think that any of it was disruptive.
		It just, personally, it got my attention to the point where I was more interested in the enigma than in my military targets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but you were always looking for any and guarding against any corruption of the data that you were receiving.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so this had to be a concern in that area, didn't it?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		It was.
		This is a skill.
		It was a breakthrough discovery.
		It was a top secret.
		We did not want the Russians to know how accurate we were, who we were, what we were doing.
		We talked about that on previous programs.
		And even though my attention was drawn to these enigma, the thing that threw me was one particular class of enigma that appeared to influence the quality and substance of the data that we were downloading from our targets.
		To me, that meant that something new, we were looking, some, I used to call it an outside agency, some outside agency knew that we were using our unconscious minds in this skill to download information about a target, a person, a place, a thing, or an event.
		How could something know that unless it had access to our own unconscious minds?
		And that was the most disturbing, non-plussing aspect of all the discoveries I made as operations officer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have a little information about something that I know that you discovered, and I wonder if you'll talk about it.
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Number one, you discovered angels.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Angels are real, didn't you?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is an angel, Ed?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		It appears to be, they appear to be the way the church fathers described them as individual rational entities.
		Without a form, we cannot distinguish, as remote viewers, we cannot distinguish the form of an angel.
		It appears to be in another dimension, perhaps the sixth dimension.
		If mind is the fifth, maybe nominally, we can say that dimension six is populated by angels.
		We cannot distinguish the form of an angel.
		But we know that there is a discrete intelligence involved and that these are discrete entities.
		They appear to have access to our unconscious minds, not necessarily to manipulate, although sometimes they do that, but they're there and they're there constantly.
		We just did not know how omnipresent they are in our daily life because they are essentially invisible.
		Indeed, they're not even in our range of vision because they're in another dimension.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What can you tell me about their function?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		They are engineers.
		They engineer circumstances.
		That's one thing that I know.
		They set up circumstances for us to walk into and to deal with.
		That's one thing that they do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let me try this one out.
		We have had really reliable reports.
		I've had them on the air here, Ed, of UFOs hovering over U.S. strategic silos, ICBM silos.
		There have been reports on national television of objects hovering over Russian silos.
		In our case, missiles were actually shut down.
		In the case of the Russians, they were actually sent into a launch sequence.
		Now, I have information that you believe that not only are angels real, but that they disarmed, I repeat, disarmed nuclear missiles worldwide, and nobody could explain it.
		And you believe that this is what they did.
		Is that accurate?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		In a couple of cases, there's something that I called, I termed transcendental technology, glowing spheres that hovered, let's say, Socorro, New Mexico was a good example.
		There was a case where, typical of this class of the phenomena, where a glowing sphere, actually several hovered outside a nuclear weapon storage depot near Socorro.
		The physical security of the depot was not breached.
		The locks were not penetrated on the doors of the bunker, the weapon storage bunker.
		But the codes on the weapons were zeroized.
		That means there were no targeting codes.
		In the old days, it took a long time to program the codes in a nuclear weapon to use.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they could not have been used?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		If they were mounted on a missile, it would have just gone up and right back down because there were no instructions where to fly to.
		Don't go to Kiev, don't go to Severalovsk, don't go to Moscow, those kinds of things.
		There's no codes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in my own mind, I really have a difficult time delineating it between what some people call a UFO or a glowing light and what another person might call an angel or an entity.
		To me, it's a big blur together.
		So it could as easily be an angel as it could be some sort of extraterrestrial craft.
		Right?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		As I've said, there is a technology involved.
		Now, there appears to be a cooperation between whoever owns these technologies that are nominally millions of years ahead of anything that we have.
		In fact, I'm loath to even call them a technology.
		And the angelic agenda.
		But I will say this.
		Even though there will in the future probably be a nuclear explosion, a nuclear weapon used in anger.
		I've talked about this.
		I think it will be on the part of the North Koreans.
		There will not be a nuclear war.
		And that is because, nor would there have ever been, because it's not allowed.
		It sterilizes the garden.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not allowed.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Not allowed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying that angelic beings or whatever you want to call them or believe them to be would not allow it to occur.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Or others working in consort with angelic beings would not have allowed it nor will allow it to occur.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		I think that on very evolved planets, a point is reached where the population, whatever they are, intelligent beings, comes to be aware of the presence of these other dimensional creatures all around them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was going to be my next question, Ed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see, our governments have always said mutual assured destruction is what has prevented nuclear, all-out nuclear war.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, those were choices that humans made.
		It forced people like you and I as children to go under our desks at school, have nightmares about mushroom clouds and all of that.
		And that was important for our character development and to make the political choices that we made to stop this terror, because the terror exists in our minds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but my real question is, Ed, do you think that our governments now understand that nuclear war will not occur for some of the reasons you just outlined versus mutual assured destruction?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't think they know that?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		No.
		Either mad or nothing is the way to go.
		No government would entertain the existence of, much less the involvement of angelic beings on this planet at least.
		Not for a while.
		Even though many of us will go to church on Mass on a Sunday and at least worship a disincarnate being, but we leave that behind when we walk out those doors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Ed, hold on.
		When we get back, I've got something to ask you about something kind of dark that goes back to last Christmas.
		I have some very, very, very serious questions about that.
		And we'll see what kind of answers we get.
unidentified		My guest is Major Ed Dames.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		ITEX Major Ed Dames.
		And by the way, if you're curious about technical remote viewing, we will tell you how to get the tapes that will teach you to do what Ed can do.
		Any of you out there, virtually any of you, can do this if you want to.
		Whether or not you want to is something you need to give some fairly serious thought to.
		From the high deserts, I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Coast AM.
		Coast AM.
		First-time callers may reach Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye at 1-775-727-1222.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. with Arkbell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is indeed.
		I am Arkbell.
		Et Dames is my guest major at Dames Hytex at Dames, and we're talking about remote viewing.
		It's going to be some pretty rough stuff throughout the night, so be advised, please.
unidentified		take appropriate action.
		We'll have time, we might still get by.
		Every time I think about it, I won't cry.
		The bones and the dirt, the kids keep coming.
		So when it's easy, it's time to be up and down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		And when I say take action, I mean if it bothers you, turn it off.
		If it bothers your children, then it certainly might.
		Get them out of the room.
unidentified		This is adult time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's almost one o'clock after one o'clock here on the West Coast and even later than that on the East Coast.
		So, more of Ed Dames in a moment.
		We're going to talk about Last Christmas.
unidentified		Last Christmas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would like to mention, by the way, that tomorrow night Barbara Simpson is going to be here.
		She'll be filling in tomorrow night, and her guest is going to be James Redfield, author of the Celestine Prophecies.
		That's going to be a good one.
		That's tomorrow night, right here, with Barbara Simpson.
		KSFO is Barbara Simpson.
		That's where she, that's the alma mater, KSFO in San Francisco, our affiliate in San Francisco.
		And I think you're going to like Barbara, so if you haven't heard her, tomorrow night would be a good night to catch her.
		James Redfield, author of The Celestine Prophecies.
		Now back to Major Ed Ames.
		Ed, it was last Christmas you did something that I didn't think you should do.
unidentified		You remote viewed Satan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was about Christmas time, I think, actually.
		And I guess I had a talk with you, and I cautioned you, and warned you, and worried about you.
		And I thought, boy, I don't know, remote viewing Satan, maybe not such a cool idea.
		And I remember asking you, as we talked about the results of that remote viewing, whether the entity or the whatever it is you want to call it that you encountered was aware that you were looking.
		And I recall you saying, yes.
		And am I on track so far?
		Is this all right?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Well, as a professional remote viewer, I conducted what I call a topical search.
		What's called a topical search.
		We do not take the existence of something that may be apocryphal as a given.
		There may not be a Satan.
		It may only exist in the minds of men or culturally or something like that.
		So we conduct a series of technical remote viewing probes when we don't know if the question is correct to see what we are dealing with.
		And based upon what falls out of six or seven TRV probes, we then have an idea of what we're dealing with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And in this case?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		We were dealing with a discrete entity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A discrete, a real entity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Individual entity.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		We're dealing with an individual entity and closely associated with one other entity.
		This entity, Satan, is not present on the planet.
		It's somewhere else.
		We don't know where the somewhere else is.
		But it's the entity associated with it, let's call it a lieutenant or something like that, is on this planet and operational.
		And that led to a long series of investigations using technical viewing as a tool.
		The remember why I mounted this art was because I felt something was feeding from the outside, from somewhere else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		These events where children kill children.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		That was unprecedented, and there was no logical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's become worse.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but there was something that there was no precedent for children killing children, unless they're conscripts in an army in Africa or something like that.
		So what was making this happen?
		And that is why I wanted to investigate this idea that I think that Father Malachi Martin would have condoned of taking a look at the shadow.
		Because good is everywhere.
		Good doesn't hide.
		And it doesn't need to be exposed.
		It's right out there.
		But this thing that we call evil, whether it's in the mind of man or whether it exists as a field force or whatever, it does best when it hides in the shadows.
		And what technical remote viewing can do is expose it.
		It can shine a light in those little shadowy nooks and corners.
		And that's what it does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tip Kingle, who just killed his parents and then went to school and killed people, was just sentenced to life, what amounts to life in prison.
		And he made a statement in court, the way they get to do after prior to sentencing or whatever.
		And he talked about killing his parents, you know, almost calmly and then the students calmly.
		And he no doubt said what his lawyers told him to say or what they cooked up beforehand about the regret and so forth.
		But it was really flat, Ed.
		It was like, you know, like eyes with, if you've ever seen somebody's eyes with nothing in them, just flat.
		That's the way the statement came out, kind of flat.
		This kid killed his parents and then killed other school children, and he's only one of many lately.
		It's been horrid.
		As a matter of fact, not just children, but adults too, in Honolulu recently, Seattle.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Outside Alakai Martin was trying.
		He was a voice in the wilderness.
		He was trying to tell us that evil is real.
		And if we turn our backs on it, it's free to operate.
		If we pretend it's not there or deny its existence, it's free to operate.
		And it will operate and grow.
		In fact, it's being fed.
		And whether or not it's a field force, whether or not it's just a meme or a cultural idea, it doesn't matter.
		It's growing.
		And a light needs to be turned on it.
		It needs to be watched.
		And that's what Malachi Martin was trying to tell us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you rushed in where other angels feared to tread and remote viewed Satan.
		Now, you said he's got an operative here on earth.
		Might that be the Antichrist?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, this was another supernatural being.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		And the puppets were humans, and their minds are manipulated by this other entity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This discrete entity was aware of you.
		Yes.
		That must have scared the Jesus out of you.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		It's interesting because the perceptions that one gets as a remote viewer when you're in, say, the war room of this, I'll call it that for lack of a better word, the war room, the planning room of this entity, is that the idea of it standing there, just an idea now, because it's allegorical in nature since we can't perceive the form, of it standing with its arms crossed saying, here, here's all my plans, look as much as you want, because you can't stop me.
		You can't stop this.
		It's almost like it's predestined, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, here comes a question that you probably can't answer, but I want to ask it anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you do a really pragmatic examination of your life since you did that TRV session on Satan, are you certain, Ed, or do you feel certain that there has been no lingering effect from that TRV session?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there has.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I thought that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't really think you were going to say that, Ed, but since you have, what do you think?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		A new perspective.
		A new perspective on things.
		I began to look at the idea of destiny as a reality, that we're not so free-willed as we might think, and began to explore myself, my own life.
		I remote viewed my own death, which is something I had been putting off for quite a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was the one thing you hadn't done.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		I wanted that perspective.
		I wanted to remote view my death and look back to see if what that perspective would give me.
		What was it all about?
		Because in a remote feeling, you can do that.
		The mind is outside of time.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said that things were, that this Satan said, look, go ahead, take a look at what's going to happen because...
		Exactly.
		Nothing can stop it.
		It's preordained.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Well, essentially, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, fine.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		It's preordained at the mass level, but not at the individual level.
		It's as if you can choose as an individual to participate or not.
		But at the mass level, it's going to happen.
		It would be, say, equivalent, figuratively speaking, to knowing that a bomb was going to be dropped on a certain city or a certain place.
		And with that knowledge, you could choose whether or not to be there.
		But many would choose to be there for their own reasons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if evil, in the way you've described, is preordained, then why should we not imagine that good or godliness is also preordained in the same sense, meaning, and I understand now what you said, that our lives are not as much really in our control as we think they are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, most of it is preordained.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		It appears to me from my research on myself, using technical remote viewing as a tool for self-exploration, looking inside at all those shadowy pockets and things like that.
		In terms of epistemology, the science of knowledge, this is a revelatory tool.
		It's knowledge by revelation.
		It gets you to a point where you can self-realize.
		You can become self-realized.
		You have knowledge of who you are.
		But that doesn't equal self-actualization because you have to act and choose on that knowledge.
		You may see true using techno-remote viewing, but you still have to act, make a choice and act, and to get you to a new state of being in terms of any destiny potential.
		So I looked at those things, and I also wanted the perspective, instead of looking from this point in my life outward along a timeline to the right, say by convention, I wanted to walk that line all the way to my own physical death and then look back and have that perspective too, to see what it was all about and what I might have changed.
		In terms of a standard, the standard being whatever created me or the control system that put me here, however you wish to call it.
		What was most important to guide me, if I had it to do over again, what would I have done differently?
		Which means what would I do differently?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Depending on what you believe, you may do it over again.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's problematic, but we're here and now, right here, where the rubber meets the road and the focus is generally in this narrow bandwidth of time, right here in this physical reality that we're in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you willing?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		How do we optimize that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess you give that a lot of thought when you face your own mortality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So obviously I've got to ask and you don't have to answer.
unidentified		What did you find out about your own death?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In terms of the manner of your death?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		No, no, I just wanted to allegorically stand at that point and look back in time at my life to discern what would be my regrets, for instance.
		Obviously, at this point, I could only have regrets, let's say, at the age of 50.
		I'm 50 years old now.
		I can't change the past from this point on.
		But I can change the point from this point to my death.
		And that's the area, the window of time that I'm most interested in right now.
		What would I do differently, if anything, in that window?
		And the question becomes, what is the system's designs for me as an individual?
		What's supported and what is not?
		What is whatever created me or gave me life?
		Did it have something in mind in terms of soul or whatever?
		That's what I was interested in, in optimizing this in terms of the system's standards rather than what my own creative or imaginative mind thinks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the very fact that you could stand roughly at your moment of death and look back, again, says it must be preordained.
		I mean, you're looking at what occurred plus what is going to occur between now and that moment of death.
		That sounds awfully preordained to me.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Yes, as a probable future.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		And it's pathological in nature.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		It's a paradox because by me doing that, if that's preordained, then I already know what the system knows, what I'm going to do, and what decisions I will make.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		And therefore, it's locked in concrete.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		So it really is preordained.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if I like that.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		You would if you knew what the answer was.
		You would if you did It because if one does that as a remote viewer, one finds out what mankind really is.
		There's a secret.
		There's a grand secret here.
		There's a wonderful thing that we are that we don't know.
		And that's the discovery of doing something like that.
		We go our whole lives not knowing what we really are and what we're really capable of doing.
		And that's the secret that I found.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a pretty serious secret.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I know TRV is bad at timelines, but did you find out anything about the manner of your death at all or how much time you have left?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		To a certain degree, yes.
		But I wasn't that's eclipsed and made mood by what I discovered about what we can be in in the time that's left.
		What I can be in the time that's left.
		What I can do.
		Who I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're pleased.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were pleased by what you saw?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Very much so.
		Very fulfilled.
		It's a long way from when we use technical remote viewing as a scientific and technical intelligence collection tool to this.
		It's been quite an odyssey, as a matter of fact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, this is probably an impertinent question, but I've really got to ask it anyway.
		Are you sure, Ed?
		Are you really sure that in remote viewing Satan?
		People that are possessed, Ed, don't know they're possessed.
		I think most frequently.
		Others around them may know it, but they don't know it.
		Are you sure, relatively sure, that nothing like that happened to you?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I think Father Malachi Martin and I had this conversation on your show before we died.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, but not since you remote viewed Satan.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		That's correct.
		But again, it has to be by invitation.
		And I didn't invite anybody.
		I did it as an intelligence officer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you got a lot closer than I would have gone.
		And so I had to ask a question.
		So anyway, you're relatively sure that nothing of that sort occurred to you.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I had to ask.
		All right, Ed, hold on.
		When we come back, we're going to tell you, before going back into what lies ahead for us all, and we are going to do that, believe me, we're going to tell you how you can get involved in TRB yourself if you want to.
unidentified		You got me running, going out of my mind You got me thinking that I'm wishing my time Going right now No, no, no, no, no I'm listening to you I'll tell you what's wrong before I get up to the floor Lock me right now You wanna be a bit better, before you come up.
		I'm feeling you're gonna be here No, no, no, no, no, no No, no, no, no I've got it one month, right before we get out of the night.
		Don't let me know.
		Jesus.
		I've got it one month, right before we get out of the night.
		so So we're making love.
		So we're making love.
		Let's reach in the movie.
		Wanna take a ride?
		Call Art Bell from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may reach Art at area code 775-727-1222.
		Or call the Wildcard line at 775-727-1295.
		To talk with Art on the Toll-Free International Line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them bell 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Be very careful about the rides you accept.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure your mama told you not to accept drives from strangers in vehicles, right?
unidentified		Something mama said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll get back to Ed Dames, and it's going to get deeper and tougher to listen to, so be advised.
		I'm warning you, be advised.
		I'm back now to Ed Dames, SciTech Ed Dames, and the first thing I want to do before we plunge forward is tell you that what Ed Dames does, what Ed Dames learned in the military and what he developed in the private sector, became available, oh, I don't know, a couple years ago, three years ago, I'm losing track of time, on videotape.
		They did a series of really downtown professional videotapes.
		The first one is introductory, and I can tell you, from having watched it myself, every minute of it, that if you're curious about whether you want to become a remote viewer or not for personal reasons or whatever, getting this first tape will tell you all you want to know about whether you want to move forward and really do this.
		If you do, then there are other tapes you can get.
		You can order the entire package at once or just this initial videotape.
		Module 1, I think it is.
		It is Module 1, right, Ed?
		Correct.
		For not a lot of money.
		What is it?
		$49.95 or something.
unidentified		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so you can order that, and it's really well done.
		I mean, it's a class act.
		Who produced that thing?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		William Guzecki, Oscar nominee for best documentary, Waco, The Rules of Engagement.
		He edited and directed it.
		Sitec produced it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It really, really blew me away.
		So you can get that, and that's not much money to find out whether you want to do something of this magnitude.
		And if you do, you can then go on and get the whole set.
		At any rate, you can order TRV training tapes.
		And I'm going to give you the number right now.
		Are they there at this time onight, Ed?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Our live operators are shut down now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're shut down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So when should they call?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		The numbers still work, but it'll get you into our voice system.
		That's all.
		Automated voice systems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then what happens?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somebody calls you back?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here are the numbers.
		Three numbers.
		1-888-878-0333.
		That's 1-888-878-0333.
		Or 1-877-878-1777.
		And I really do personally recommend them to you.
		Particularly the first one.
		Now, TRV is not for everybody, is it, Ed?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		No, it requires dedication and commitment to master the intermediate skills, skills that would essentially allow you to solve the problem of what brought Flight 990 down or what that object was that your pilots earlier reported.
		That would require at least four months of instruction.
		It's 10 hours of instruction on both the tapes.
		We are offering $70 off the price, last year's price of those tapes too, as an incentive to buyers.
		We've sold about 12,000 copies of tapes.
		So we have a lot of people out there who are on the same sheet of music.
		This is a standardized procedure.
		It's not a close your eyes, lay down, relax, and tell me what you see type of thing.
		It's very rigorous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With 12,000 people now, Ed, remote viewing, have you at any point noticed any sort of sea change in what you're able to do or what you encounter as a result of that many people being out there?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		The only thing I've noticed and I expected to see was that there are a lot of people who are far better than I am as the coach, as the principal instructor, in terms of the skill itself.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Not necessarily teaching it, but in terms of performance, because you have such a large pool of talent, raw talent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then there are quite a number of people who have taken those tapes and really taken off.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		If you're interested in the background or want to know more about what it's like or want to talk real time in our chat rooms, you can visit our website.
		All that information is there.
		The chat room is busy right now and you can get to our website via yours.
		Keith Rowland's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we've got a link up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got a link.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Or www.scitech.net, P-S-I-T-E-C-H.net.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can they plunge right into chat?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		They can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And last night, I had George Carlin on.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I heard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you hear him?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't hear him, but I heard him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he took off in what some might consider to be a comedy routine.
		I don't think it was, or at least it was only half that.
		And he was saying he was hoping for bigger, bigger disasters.
		You know, he has some complaints about the current state of the gene pool here.
		And so he was kind of joking, but we were talking about earthquakes.
		He said, let's have a 25.
		I mean, I really want something big.
		You know, I'm just looking over at the latest information on our sun, Ed.
		And George might get his way.
		We've got a rounded sunspot count right now of 340.
		The A index is 30.
		And the solar storms are coming one after another after another.
		And we're just headed into the really heavy maximum period.
		And I know you've got a word or two to say about what's going on with our sun, but it's really raging up there right now, Ed.
		So is George going to be happy?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		I think he'll be very happy.
		Yes.
		We seem to be bored in America.
		We look outward for titillating things, excitement, more and more.
		The real excitement is inside, but we keep looking outside.
		And people find that fulfilling, disasters, because I guess we've fallen into some droll rut or routine.
		But the excitement's on the inside, the real excitement.
		However, you might not find that until you get a kick in the dairy air.
		We're about to get some.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're about to get kicks.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		We look around and the globe, and you've got a lot of suffering.
		Mother Nature is doing its best to crush a lot of oculations right now.
		We've been fairly fortunate, but I think there's something knocking on our doors, post-haste here in America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have talked about something called the kill shot from the sun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that still ahead of us, Ed?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		This particular solar max will just keep ratcheting up, and there will either be one or two very violent storms, or there will be a number to the degree that weather changes will be affected very, very rapidly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's where I was going to go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to ask what's going on with the sun.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		There is a flux, a very direct flux, a linkage between the solar max and our weather.
		And that's no accident.
		Our ionosphere breathes and respires just like we do as individuals in reaction to the sun, to the ion streams that are coming from the sun.
		And you can't have a solar maximum without having maximum weather patterns on Earth or any of the other planets in our solar system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, of course, timelines are very difficult, but where do we stand with respect to this kill shot?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		A kill shot or a series of shots is in this solar maximum year.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		So we're right about here right now, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I kind of thought we were pretty close, Ed.
		When you say kill shot, would there be survivors of this or are we talking about something so serious from the sun that it would virtually sterilize everything down to the microbial level?
		Or would there be some survival?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		I think what it will do is affect the weather patterns to the degree where we will have extremely vicious storms.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		And that will be the effects of kill shot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, super storms.
		All right.
		Somebody faxed me the following that I respect, Ed, and I want to ask you about it.
		Again, it's a hard question.
		You gave very specific, detailed, verifiable, ultimately, observations about Egypt there and what happened.
		The faxer says, in all, Ed is always enigmatic and provocative.
		But as ever, you know, after hearing him over time and reading some of the past transcripts carefully, I have the impression that he combines some genuine remote viewing data with information that is available to him through his more earthly contacts.
		At times, I feel he throws in some finely finessed curves.
		In other words, Ed, there are a lot of people who think that your separation from the military and the contacts you had was not a separation, a complete separation.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		I hear this all the time, and there's nothing I can do to really ameliorate that.
		I can't outrun my legacy as an intelligence officer at very high levels of the government.
		And so I think that there wouldn't be, I mean, what intelligence agency is connected so closely with the International Civil Aviation Organization that it monitors cockpit goings-ons of all airliners?
		Common sense would tell you that that is not a high priority even if it ever existed.
		So common sense really isn't used with conspiracy theorists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, it wouldn't matter how you denied it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People are going to think whatever they want to think about you.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Well, the more I would deny it, the more they would think that I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true, Ed.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know that to be true myself.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		In fact, it's ironic that I've been on your show now for three years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Since October, three years ago, and I talked about UFOs and what the government knew, what it didn't know, and there had always been the hope that someone would come out from the sanctum sanctorum and talk about these things.
		But then when you do, then it's a firestorm of condemnation and accusations because you must be one of them.
		Well, I was one of them, and I did come forward, which is what everybody wanted, they thought.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there ever really a clean separation, or once you've done high-level intelligence work, to some degree, are you not always bound not only by what you knew, but ongoing contacts you might have?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		There are no ongoing contacts except with regard to generally CIA.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		CIA likes to keep string people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's non-trivial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		CIA is non-trivial.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but with Army and Navy and Air Force intelligence officers, the break is clean.
		You just, I mean, you're not free to discuss operational intelligence, of course.
		Rightly classified things are nation systems.
		And the higher the clearance that you have, the more serious it becomes if you do breach that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you folks read between the lines and we'll leave that subject.
		Listen, Ed, I've been interviewing Joyce Riley now for, I don't know, years, too.
		And she is a nurse.
		And she has been crusading for those Gulf War vets who are claiming that some sort of biological agent was used on them and they're getting sick in masks.
		The government's dragging its feet, as it always does.
		The question is, what kind of biological weapons, or no, let's even back up from that.
		Were there biological agents used against American servicemen during Desert Storm?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		No.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		And on your show a year and a half ago, I told you what the genesis of the Gulf War syndrome was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Repeat it.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Peridostignine bromide tablets.
		Peridostignine bromide was supposed to be a prophylaxis for a chemical soup that Saddam Hussein might deliver, mustard agent, nerve gas, something that would ameliorate or mitigate, use as a prophylaxis against those kinds of things if someone did not don protective gear immediately.
		This would save their lives theoretically.
		Instead, it caused an unprecedented, unpredicted, terrible tragedy amongst many people.
		This Gulf War syndrome.
		And that is essentially the real genesis of that syndrome, these paradigmine bromine tablets that our soldiers and sailors and airmen were forced to take.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's real.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		What is real?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Gulf War syndrome is real.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		The syndrome is real, and that's the primary causative agent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		I think particularly, it seems to be particularly aggravated in cases where volatile hydrocarbons from the burning oil fields.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		That would make soldiers, sailors, and airmen that might have breathed those volatile hydrocarbons in combination with the pyridostignum bromine seemed to accelerate and amplify this effect, perhaps even made it reach a threshold value where this tragedy occurred.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ed, do you know what MJ5 is or was?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Where did you hear that, Art?
		Where did you pick up that term?
		Well, let me ask you a question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have my sources.
		I can tell you're shocked at the question.
		I am.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		It's rather personal.
		I was five of MJ5.
		You were.
		I think I've heard of MJ5 before, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you were a member of it.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		There was a group called MJ5, of which I was a member, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which had what as a function?
		I mean, stop me, obviously, when you can't discuss what I'm asking.
		That's fine.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Field investigations of UFO phenomenon in northern New Mexico.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		I was the project manager.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In northern New Mexico?
unidentified		Yes.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		To validate the existence of the phenomenon itself, to actually validate it, to measure it, get some parameters.
		Whether or not if we were dealing with artifacts of propulsion or the direct observations of things itself, but to actually validate the existence, bring back the smoking gun.
		And that's what the small team of very, very expert physicists were involved.
		I was simply the team leader.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Team leader.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you discuss the conclusions?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		There is at least one area in North America that is extremely active in terms of a passage point for what we would call vehicles or objects.
		In other words, we can go to this area and make consistently, get consistent sightings and get close enough where we can measure some of the operating parameters of these objects.
		We had 31 channels of data.
		Each channel was a different parameter.
		So for instance, the electromagnetic field, the binding force of nature, infrared, ultraviolet.
		We had all RF.
		We had all kinds of recording devices set out so that we could capture signals and then put together some type of a pattern to attempt to deduce what we were dealing with.
		We were actually, at one point, there was a, you know how you buzz someone with an aircraft?
		I've done this before too, playing around with people who did it to us.
		Sure.
		We never got one of them to, I'll use the term loosely, to land, ever.
		We were hoping that might happen, but it did not happen.
		But it got real close.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you remember you and I were discussing the ranch that NIDS sponsors and what it would take to get one to land.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you remember you mentioned a mother and a child?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		As the years went by, we began to realize that we were being dealt with not only as children, but almost monkeys, as a very primitive race.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		And so using technical remote viewing, we could get behind the agendas of these visitors, let's call them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said a mother and an infant, the love between them, would bring this contact about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the essence of what you said.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		It would be symbolic enough to allow the visitors to know that we acknowledge what the agenda is.
		It isn't technology.
		This is not about technology.
		Or that because it's humanness, it's not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, or that the demonstration, I guess you could call it, or the acknowledgement, the knowledge that we knew this was what it was all about would be sufficient to perhaps initiate contact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Roughly correct?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		Hold on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll do one more hour.
		My guest is Major Ed Dames.
		I text Major Ed Dames.
		I'm Arcel.
		And this, of course, is the ever-strange coast to coast AM.
		Touch not that dial.
unidentified		Though I would not give folks home on the strange morning day, but the mother child me lonely.
		It's only a motion away.
		Oh, this darkness of mine.
		I care for the life of the means.
		Remember a Saturday.
		A Saturday.
		You might be bad, don't have to be a little bit more.
		Of a lonely sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no country Living hard to do
		Coming to kill the lost I've gone And no religion to do Rejoice in the Kingdom of Live From west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-8255-033.
		First-time copies may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To recharge on the 2-3 International line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and add the dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think Lennon was a prophet or just a dreamer?
unidentified		Imagine all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Might be a pretty good question to ask, actually.
		It involves our future.
		That kind of one-world peace, not the one-world terror that some imagine.
		Would that be our future?
		Or is it all kind of a moot point?
		The End Just in Tuesday night, I'm going to do a program that I'm calling Death and Taxes.
		And I'm calling it that because my guest is going to be an IRS employee.
		He remains an IRS employee, by the way, who had an NDE, a very serious NDE.
		All Vital Sein stopped.
		And yet he remains an IRS employee.
		I don't know whether he had a full life review, but we'll find out.
		So I call that Death and Taxes on Tuesday.
		On Wednesday of next week, I'm sorry, I'm wrong.
		Death and Taxes, that's Monday.
		I'll be here Monday, live.
		I forgot to tell you that.
		I'll be here Monday, live.
		Then Tuesday evening, we're going to have the producer of, his name is David Israel, of the NBC movie coming up, which ha ha ha, I will have seen by then.
		In fact, I should have my copy Monday.
		Maybe I'd have my copy now.
unidentified		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Y2K movie.
		Y2K the movie, which some fear more than Y2K the reality of whatever may occur, because, of course, the effect that it may have on the American public, all of you, all of us.
		Y2K the movie is going to run on NBC, but before it does, we're going to have the producer of that movie here, where we can grill him in great detail about all of this.
		And then the following night, Wednesday night, we're going to do, again, a show on Y2K called Y2K Ready or Not, Here It Comes.
		Title of the book, telling you how to get ready, just in case you think what Bill Clinton said about Y2K may not be the case.
		Some people don't believe every word he utters.
		Okay, once again, here is Major Ed Dames.
		And Lennon, John Lennon, was he, with regard to our future, Ed, a genius, a prophet?
		Was he seeing our future or was he dreaming and hoping about dreaming and hoping?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, dreaming and hoping.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he was a dreamer.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		The songs of the 60s, remember, they were about people and love, and that was a decade that was pretty unique.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But not what lies ahead for us.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		No.
		Not in the near future.
		In the out years, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the out years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if you're able to look way out, there is a time when mankind actually does begin to spiritually evolve.
unidentified		Yes.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		What's left of mankind, yes.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Rebuilds and evolves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what's left is a pretty small sample compared to what we carry now?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm getting a number of facts.
		Ed, somebody wanted me to ask you if Flight 990A, when you remote viewed this thing, did you happen to note there were early reports that it landed at Edwards Air Force Base, then later denied?
		Do you happen to know offhand, or were you not viewing that aspect?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		No, in technical remote viewing, it's extremely specific.
		When you qualify the search term, you think of a library or Internet search.
		You get exactly what you ask for.
		You don't want to become too general because you're only hanging in there for a 45-minute remote viewing session.
		You want to be able to make your search as elegant as possible so you can get the most unequivocal data in the shortest period of time.
		So this was pretty much cut and dried.
		Judd, I just wanted the cause of the crash, period.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Ed, you've moved to the Hawaiian Islands.
		You've done this for a reason.
		Obviously, all hell is about to break loose, metaphorically, literally, I guess, as you have described it.
		So obviously, there are places where it's going to be safer to be and live than others.
		And is that the case?
		Have you picked a place where survival is probable?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Where I will be happiest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that the same thing as survival being probable?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		It's an important factor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, I guess I'm asking straight out whether this is a place that you picked, which would be, I mean, Hawaii, after all, is paradise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is a paradise.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Not Oahu.
unidentified		Oahu might as well be a suburb of L.A. Well, it's still Hawaii, though.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		But the population density and the nature of the population is a city.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		And it's different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I guess what I'm asking is, have you picked a place that you actually consider to be relatively safe or just a place from which it would be good to exit?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Relatively safe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And are there many others like it?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		I have not perceived many others, but a number of other places in the world that I know would be safe.
		And one of the largest criteria is fresh water.
		I mentioned that before.
		And that's important.
		All of the places that I know of have that one thing in common, abundant fresh water.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ed, there is a laboratory that is preparing to do something that has never been done before.
		They are going to produce, they claim, a mini Big Bang.
		Now, I have some reservations, and other people do about this too, because the Big Bang, of course, created supposedly all that is now.
		Everything we can see for as far as we can see billions of years out, all the planets, all the suns, all the quasars, all the things that fill space created in an instant, kaboom, a Big Bang.
		And there's a lab in this country that's preparing to create what they call a mini Big Bang, and I have a concern about that.
		That is a creative process they'd be tampering with there.
		And it might be that a mini Big Bang would be big enough to take out Earth, Jupiter, our Sun, who knows what all else.
		Have you ever taken a look at this project ongoing?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		I'm aware of the project and am apprised of the experiment, but have not remote viewed the actual experiment itself.
		That is an excellent type, but that's an advanced technical remote viewing target to remote view the outcome of that experiment.
		And I have not done that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, every program I try and give you something to go to work on for the next program, always hoping there will be a next program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be a real butte to go after Ed.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Do you think so?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
		I mean, there's going to be a moment in time where somebody pushes a button, Ed, and what I guess I'd like to know, we've discussed the way these things appear in time, and you've described it as kind of a giant spike.
		And I guess I want to know if there's a big spike when this guy pushes the button.
		That would answer a lot for us.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		I can look at that for you, and we can discuss it in the next millennium.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		I think what you're worried about is what some people, even physicists, were worried about when the first atomic bomb was chain reaction.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but here we're talking about a mini Big Bang, and I have a hard time getting my mind, wrapping my mind around the concept of what a mini Big Bang might be.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		It's a good advanced target because it deals with physics, and I can present the material to the scientific community, and I like that dialogue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if you were to see a gigantic spike there, I'd be concerned.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would not be perceiving it, of course, as a spike, only allegorically.
		I would be perceiving the actual physicality of the event, what is happening at both the atomic cloud level all the way up to the macrocosmic world in the laboratory itself, or hopefully it's confined to the laboratory and to whatever they're using,
		a linear accelerator or what, and be able to describe it somewhat and then relook the experiment for the details, describe it in a general fashion, then use more technical remote viewing sessions to go back in and explore each aspect of what I might find.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, put it on your list.
unidentified		Got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, another person, Tom in Boise, Idaho, really asks a cool question here, particularly in view of the fact that you have remote viewed your own death.
		Art, if you can see your own death, as Ed has suggested, and that death comes by anything other than natural causes, then one should be able to prevent that death until the time when natural causes do result in death.
		Now, that's a pretty good question.
		If you knew that you were going to board an aircraft that was going to crash and did not board as a result, well, first of all, could that be done, Ed?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I think it could be done.
		From some of the research that we've done and some of the actual operational experience that I have, it does appear that if you have the knowledge, you can choose not to participate in that particular trajectory.
		So it looks as if there is a probable pathway for individuals where probability comes into play, but that if you're aware of that, you can manipulate it to some degree.
		Not a lot, but to some degree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about the paradox problem?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the paradox problem is very real, but it appears in technical remote viewing in another sense most often.
		And that is, if I remote view where you will eat dinner, for example, tonight, say you're going to eat dinner.
		If you weren't going to eat dinner, it would come out in my remote viewing session that you weren't going to eat dinner tonight.
		So I would know that.
		But let's say you had decided to go to a restaurant and you were indeed going to go.
		If I remote view that, I could describe the restaurant where you will be eating tonight.
		But if there were any possibility at all, any probability, any likelihood that I would tell you what those results would be, I would not be able to derive anything except nonsense from my data.
		I wouldn't be able to nail it down.
		There is a paradox problem that we run into in remote viewing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, back to our weather for a moment.
		If the sun is affecting our weather, then it's going to be affecting the ocean and ocean temperatures.
		And we've had a lot of reports, Ed, of anomalous ocean temperatures, the Atlantic Current not doing what it ought to be doing, and that's the subject of a book that Whitley Striber and myself are about to come out with.
		It's going to be a walloping book.
		All of this change is underway, and it could provoke A sudden change.
		People don't realize this, but our climate historically, going back not just since we began recording modern weather phenomena, but going back through the archaeological records and doing digs and coming up with core samples and stuff, we found out that the Earth's weather has changed violently, suddenly, many, many, many times in the past.
		Are we looking at that kind of change?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		We're looking at, in fact, the ocean levels are rising now, as you know.
		The island nation of Kiribars, 33 different islands, actually 31 atolls and a couple of islands, they're losing two of their atolls now.
		The population has actually had to move off the atolls.
		The atolls are being inundated, literally.
		They're three to six feet above the water line, and they're about to become submerged.
		They're becoming submerged.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So their water levels are faster.
		They'll not be islands.
		They'll be hazards to shipping.
unidentified		Yes.
		Speed bumps.
		Speed bumps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you, I know timelines are hard, but if you're pressed, these changes with our sun and with our weather, they're so important and will affect so many.
		How close is it getting?
		Is there any, what's your best estimate?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's happening now, Art.
		It's happening right now.
		If you look at India, the super cyclones, all that, that's happening.
		I'm not as concerned about that because that is a fait accompli as I am about terrorism and about the nature of man and what's going to happen in that regard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, before we get onto that, it's really odd, Ed.
		You know, if a cyclone hits India and tens of thousands die, we hear it almost as a byline in this country.
		You know, if tens of thousands of people died in the West or in Europe or in America, oh, it would be the size of that tragedy and the way it would be reported can't even be calculated.
		But in India, we sort of just mention it on the news.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		I think that there is an interesting thing occurring here that I'm beginning to notice, that the kinds of cataclysms, cataclysmic events of a geological, geophysical nature that we see occur in the southern hemisphere, it has an antithesis in the northern hemisphere that you are about to see, and that is large terrorist events.
		This is one of the things that I'm looking at now.
		In fact, I put together using members of the old military remote viewing unit, a counter-nuclear terrorism task force.
		I only use Alpha team members, the original team members, on this because it's such a dicey thing.
		We're looking at the real probability of nuclear terrorism.
		And that is in its own way cataclysmic in the northern hemisphere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we know there are a lot of Russian suitcase nuclear devices missing.
		Gone, gone, gone.
		We know that's true.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		That's surmise.
		You don't know that.
		You've heard that, but that is surmise.
		There may be some missing, but we're looking, FITEC is looking at that now.
		We're actually going to look for missing special atomic demolitions, munitions that may be in North America.
		And that project will begin next week.
		Having said that, recall that I've said that the first use of a nuclear weapon will be by the North Koreans.
		That, of course, does not denigrate the search for these ostensibly.
		We'll find out if they're really here or not.
		These stay-behind devices that may or may not have made their way into the North American continent.
		We will find them.
		They are such unique targets that they're easy to find.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let me locate.
		Let's just set you up here with a scenario.
		Let's say, Ed, that you discovered that there was a nuclear device in Chicago.
		Okay.
		Let's say, just for the sake of argument, we're not saying there really is one, but you found one and you found it in Chicago.
		What the hell could you do with that information?
		What would you do with it?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		The FBI, the Department of Energy, the White House, the Defense Intelligence Agency, and the Central Intelligence Agency would get a copy of SciTech's reports.
		And we call these, if it was a hidden weapon, we would just report the location and other things.
		If it were a terrorist attempt, we would issue an intent-to-detonate warning report.
		And that would be an urgent report that would go to those agencies.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on, Ed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back, and we'll try and get to the phones in this final segment coming up.
unidentified		by martin You don't care.
		But you know me.
		I'm in you.
		You're with me.
		I'm in you.
		Thank you.
		Hey, I look at me.
		I can see the media.
		Suck me suddenly out of my work.
		I won't let you suddenly let me hold up.
		That you love the feeling of your heart But you got a similar love Don't take care of And you better be where we are It's all happened now One day you run Let's see if I'm home You turn around You find your world You're on the show It's all happened to me And it's not happening to you
		Call like Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To recharge on the Toll-Free International line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. with Artell from the Kingdom of Not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Major Ed Dames.
		I text Major Ed Dames, and I'm pleased to have him here tonight.
		A lot of what Major says, people don't want to hear, and that results in anger.
		That's a fairly typical response, frankly.
		Another way to approach it might be education.
		And getting at least, at the very least, the first technical remote viewing tape, I think would be a good way to begin to get educated.
		Then you'll understand.
		The number to call to order the tapes.
		Actually, there's two of them.
		And I understand there's also a big discount going on right now.
		The number is 1-888-878-0333.
		That's 1-888-878-0333.
		Or 1-877-878-1777.
		Now, these are daytime numbers generally, or you can call and leave voicemail and they'll get back to you.
		So call one of them and begin to investigate for yourself.
		There's one thing about it, if you think he's full of it, you can always begin the process yourself and find out for yourself if you are so inclined.
		and I understand that some out there are not.
		The End Once again, sci-tex Major Ed Dames.
		Major Dames, we may have covered this previously, but a lot of people may not have heard it, and they're really curious, and I'm getting a lot of faxes.
		So the question is, Symbol, may we ask the Major to comment on the big chemtrail mystery?
		Is there something to it?
		Nothing to it?
		Should we be concerned?
		Are they testing biological weapons on us?
		Is it some sort of inoculation that we're getting?
		What are these chemtrails?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		It is not an inoculation.
		It is not a polyvalent vaccine.
		It is nothing biological at all.
		That is not going on.
		And I mean, the U.S. did things like this in the 1950s.
		It was a very cavalier approach that was during the McCarthy era, the dark age of America culture.
		But that does not happen any longer.
		It happens in totalitarian dictatorships, But not here.
		That is not what is going on up there.
		I mentioned that one of the sets of uses of the chemtrails is an experiment.
		And I think for the first time on your show, I mentioned that I could not tell you what that is because it is of strategic value and it's very important.
		And indeed, if I let the cat out of the bag, I would be in the bag.
		Your listeners would be very angry at me because I would have given away something that is vitally important to national defense.
		Just because you see those chemtrails and people are, it appears that people are getting sick, don't forget that there may be a big reason for some of those chemtrails to be up there, what you're calling chemtrails.
		They're really not chemicals.
		They are contrails and they're doing something that's important in some cases.
		In other cases, it's just your normal flight traffic pattern.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good, Ed.
		I can accept that answer.
		Thank you.
		First time caller align, you're on the air with Ed Dames.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, this is Scott out of Marshall, North Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Scott.
unidentified		Hey, I started listening to you about a year ago, Major Dane, on the Art Bell show, and I bought a copy of the audio tape there so I could get the details out of it.
unidentified		And the main thing that I perceive about your predictions and all is that you've been wrong about every major prediction you've made.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		The timelines are wrong, but the predictions aren't wrong, especially in terms of the sun, in terms of the largest tornado that would hit the United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He did make that prediction, actually.
unidentified		He said there were going to be plagues in Africa by the end of last year that would kill maybe millions a week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, actually what he said, what I recall he said, was that there would be a fungus that would begin in Africa that would begin to kill green things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you know, there was a story about a fungus in Africa that I read that you might have heard, Caller, because I read it several times, that is doing exactly that.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		It's now in Texas.
unidentified		Weren't you talking about killing people in Africa, Major Ding?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		I was talking about people starving as a result of the grasses that they eat for food dying.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Check it out.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for the call.
		Um is right, yes.
		In fact, I read that story, I don't know how many times, and it just blew me away when I saw it about a fungus, some sort of modified weird fungus.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Flaviceps paporea, the holy fungus.
		It's one of the 32 species of ergot.
		Ergot is a LSD is a derivative of ergot.
		But this fungus has now popped up in Texas and is very quietly being monitored.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think I even heard that.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Major Ed Dames.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		Hi, Art.
		Hi, Ed.
		How you doing?
		Talked to you before on Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you're going to have to speak up, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not too loud.
unidentified		Oh, sorry.
		Yeah.
		I've been on before talking to Ed and Art.
		I think it might have been the last time you're on.
		Talking about timelines and all the bets are off in 1999.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		It's Tim from Cold Lake Alberta, Nostradimus on your website.
		But I remember Ed saying when we're talking about the Nostradamus thing that didn't appear in September or July for that matter, that basically we got into Y2K and the Y2K thing was a non-event, Ed said, because these other things are going to take place and we're just kind of getting close to it now.
		Could you comment on that?
		And just one other quick thing.
		There's been a lot of air crashes lately.
		We followed that in the papers and whatnot.
		I did a search on the internet when the Learjet, remember the Golf Parole, when they were asphyxiated or whatever happened on the Internet.
		They went to a rhyme of gas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I still don't remember.
unidentified		Anyway, yeah.
		I was under a missing aircraft.
		And lo and behold, there's one site, just a search engine, missing aircraft, and it came up missing Lear Jet.
		There was a missing Learjet in New England that went missing on Christmas Eve of 1986 in the New England area.
		And they've looked and looked for that thing and just can't find it.
		So, you know, I was sort of having dreams just shortly after that about this plane wasn't actually missing.
		It was stolen, and it's being modified by a group of terrorists.
		Sounds like a James Bond movie, doesn't it?
		But I wondered if I could challenge it to maybe see if you can find out where this Learjet is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Ed, do you know anything about a missing Learjet?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		I don't.
		I would need target reference material on this one.
		All I need is the report.
		That's all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		So if you will somehow get that to Ed on his website or an email or something or another, why then he can proceed.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Major Ed Dames.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, Art.
		This is Alessandra in Chicago listening to WLS 89 a.m., which I wish would start picking up your first hour.
		Yes, ma'am.
		I have two questions for you, Ed.
		First of all, previously you have mentioned the parameters for somebody who is blind taking this training, and also that you teach advanced techniques over the Internet.
		To your knowledge, has anyone who is totally blind from birth been able to participate in that advanced training?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		I have no feedback from the people who are blind who purchased the tapes.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		There has to be an assistant in Module 1.
unidentified		Yeah, in the initial stages.
unidentified		I understand that.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		You have to have an assistant.
unidentified		But I was wondering if anybody was able to take the advanced training and if there would be a way to get some information on that.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		I have not taught, to my knowledge, I have not taught a blind person advanced training either on the Internet or in a classroom with teaching professionals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you imagine, though, it to be possible or not?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		I know I could do it in person.
		That's for sure.
		That would be a non-problem.
		But the tapes would be a problem because I would not be able to oversee that and literally hold the hand of the person until they mastered the stage one.
unidentified		Even if they've been totally blind since birth?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, You had another hook?
unidentified		Yes.
		You left a fabulous hook a while back when you were talking about going to the time of your death and seeing your life from that perspective and saying that you have found out the grand secret that we basically don't know about who we are.
		Are you willing to share that grand secret with us now?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a good straight answer.
unidentified		Like, is it coming out in a book or what?
unidentified		Are you going to be talking about it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, Ed may be about to write a book finally.
		He hasn't done it for years and years.
		Nobody knows that.
		Maybe they shouldn't be knowing it now.
		Ed, you are about to write a book, aren't you?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		I'm thinking about it.
		I'm thinking about it.
		I'm toying with retiring now because of things that I've discovered.
		But I'm not sure at this juncture right now what I'm going to do.
unidentified		Well, just, you know, why is it not good?
unidentified		Is there a particular reason it's not good to talk about this at this time?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a good question.
		Yeah, okay.
		How about that, Ed?
		It is the grand secret, so-called.
		Though you cannot tell us what it is, can you tell us anything about there is a program.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		If you think of humans as having a potential, we don't know what we're capable of doing.
		We have hints and insights based upon historical examples of savants and saints and all kinds of things, yogas, yogis.
		But there may be a program, there may be a thing, a switch, let's say, for lack of a better word, inside of us that if thrown and if it's capable of being thrown, does something that allows us to become something more than we ever imagined.
		And that may have been latent for thousands of years.
		You could live and die and never know that you could do that.
		And that's what I'm talking about.
		Or actually be that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		It's a destiny that everybody can have, but no one partakes of.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		No one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what you, it's hard to miss what you've never known, right?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		That's correct, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's intriguing.
		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Ed Dames.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, Ed Dames.
		Hello, Art.
		There's a guardian here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yes.
		It was just, it's amazing.
		Going back to your New Mexico situation there, we've had similar activities.
		I've done the same thing as Ed Dames has been into.
		And I know it's really funny when you get involved with some of these things such in the New Mexico areas, that you really think about how many humans have lived and died and actually don't even know what's going on in this world, haven't seen these things.
		And I haven't heard you bringing up any of those craft penetrating solid matter coming out of the ground, Ed.
		You want to talk about that?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't call them craft necessarily.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		It's a way of passing through matter, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they're craft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, even if that's a misnomer, then something, some anomalous something is passing through solid matter.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller align, you're on the air with Major Ed Dames.
unidentified		Yeah, this is Kyle from Texas, listening over the radio broadcast on broadcast.com or the internet or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Kyle.
unidentified		All right.
		Question for Ed.
		I was just wondering if earlier you were speaking of this secret of life, the big secret.
		Right.
		And if you can't tell that, how about who killed JFK?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		I've talked about that on our show before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but once again, why don't you give him what you got very quickly?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		On the JFK assassination?
		Sure.
		There was a device inside of the car.
		It was not a handheld device.
		It was built into the car itself, the dashboard.
		It was fired remotely.
		I'm not going to say how far away, but it was fired remotely.
		The flashette that penetrated JFK's Adam's Apple was fired from that device.
		A flashette is a small rocket like aluminum or titanium or a hard metallic rocket.
		And it doesn't expand like a bullet.
		It just goes straight.
		And it went through his Adam's apple off the back of his neck.
		That particular thing was fired from inside the car.
		The high-velocity heavy caliber rounds, of course, were fired from outside.
		But the coup de grace was meant to be delivered from inside the car.
		So it was set up.
		And I'm not big on conspiracies, and I was not prepared to accept the technical remote viewing results of this.
		I didn't want to believe it.
		But when you do this, when you engage in DRV, you've got to accept the data, whether you like it or not.
		And this happened to be the data.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Speaking of data.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		The military team did this, by the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the data that you've most recently uncovered that actually has you thinking about retiring.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that something that you know is going to occur now, Ed?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		In other words, it deals with me personally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I realize that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Having viewed, though, your life with 2020 hindsight, as you have, is that something that you know is going to occur?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		No, I have to make it happen.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		And that will require my full attention.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Major Ed Dames.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hey, Art.
		This is John in Atlanta.
		Good morning, Ed.
		Good morning.
		Two quick questions and a comment.
		Primarily, I'd like to hear more of what was revealed to you when you remote viewed your own demise.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		It's not a demise.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		It's physical death, that's all.
unidentified		Transition.
		Yes.
		And real quick, two other comments, Art, I think for corroboration on some of the devastating information Ed has revealed to us, I think we need to maybe tap into that pool of talent that Ed talked about earlier, maybe open up a line another day or something.
		And last question.
		Ed, am I ever going to read the headline, Psychic Finds Amelia Earhart's Wreckage, or have you kind of shied away from that publicity?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		It wouldn't be us that finds it necessarily.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		It would be a salvage operation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you've already identified where it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've already told us where it is.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		A wing, but we also said we want to go after it.
		That's becoming difficult because Kiribar is where it's at.
		And you can see the exact site.
		If you go to our website, we actually have X's on what we say is a wing and an engine on the reefs just to the west of one of the atolls, at Kuria, the atoll that's in this decade called Kuria, it was called.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got a map up there then.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well yeah, we've got a map with two X's, one on the engine and one on the wing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So will he ever see such a headline?
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure.
		There's no water on the islands anymore.
		The logistics are a nightmare.
		We have a sponsor, a large airline company that will sponsor us.
		But the logistics there on site, we need water, a lot of water, and there's no water left on the islands.
		All the sources of water.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Ed, we've done it again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's the end of the program.
ed dames ▲ ● ▼		I've been honored to be a guest for the last three years.
		Your friendship and your hospitality and your support, I truly treasure.
		I look forward to talking to you in the next millennium.
		I won't see you until then.
		You have an open invitation to visit us here in Maui for a lot of good aloha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nine time you want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
unidentified		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I too treasure the friendship we've had for these years.
		Well, that's it, folks, from the high desert.
		I'm Mark Bell.

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