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Sept. 7, 1999 - Art Bell
02:48:06
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Russell Targ - Parapsychology Research - Peter Davenport
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Welcome to Art Bell.
in time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from September 7th, 1999.
From the high deserts of the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and or good morning, wherever you may be in this great land of ours and beyond.
Out west from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S.
Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to the bowl, and worldwide on the Internet.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
I'm Art Bell.
Good morning.
The, uh... The show tonight is gonna be a very, very good one.
So we'll get to that shortly.
What a wonderful treat you're in for now, right?
Russell Targ is a physicist and author who was a pioneer in the development of the laser and many laser applications and co-founder, along with Hal Puthoff, of the Stanford Research Institute's investigation into psychic abilities in the 1970s and 80s.
He's co-author of Mind Reach, Scientists Look at Psychic Abilities, The Mind Race, Understanding and Using Psychic Abilities, and most recently with Spiritual Healer, Jane Katra, Miracles of Mind, Exploring Non-Local Consciousness and Spiritual Healing, and Heart of the Mind, How to Know God Without Belief.
How to Know God Without Belief.
Oh, is that going to be interesting?
Russell Targ retired from Lockheed Martin Missiles and Space Company as a senior staff scientist where he developed airborne laser systems for the detection of wind shear and other peaceful applications.
He now pursues ESP research at Interval Research Corporation in Palo Alto, California.
His website showing recently declassified data from the SRI remote viewing program is It's linked on my website, but it's http://espresearch.com.
So, one might ask, what do the healer, mystic and psychic, and psychic-spy all have in common?
Indeed, one might ask that.
They're all in touch with their non-local mind and our community of spirit.
Stanford Research Institute conducted investigations into the human capability called Remote viewing, SRI's research was supported by the CIA and many other government agencies for two decades.
Its task was to learn to understand PSI abilities and to gather information about the Soviet Union.
During the Cold War, Mr. Targ was co-founder, that's right, co-founder of this $20 million program, which began in 1972, and he will describe his participation The founding of this previously secret research.
He will discuss recent research in distant healing, quantum interconnectedness, how the future affects the past, some of the implications of developments in modern physics for PSI research, and applications.
Arusal is going to compare the inflow of information that is a hallmark of remote viewing, the outgo of intention that plays a part in facilitating Distant healing with the stillness of ego surrender that can arise between the two.
This is going to be quite an interview.
Here, ladies and gentlemen, is Russell Targ.
Russell, welcome to the program.
Good evening.
I'm very happy to be able to talk with you today.
Boy, I'm happy to have you here.
You were co-founder of the original remote viewing program.
In the beginning, Hal Puthoff and I joined Stanford Research Institute.
We're both physicists.
In fact, we're both laser physicists.
Had done similar things before we came to Stanford.
And we had the idea that we would bet our careers at this point, 1972, that we could learn enough about psychic abilities to do repeatable, reliable experiments Teach people how to get in touch with the part of themselves that's psychic and publish our findings in the standard academic journals like Nature Magazine and the proceedings of the IEEE.
We felt that at that point there was enough information about psychic abilities so that using reinforcement and feedback like you have in conventional psychology we could assist people To learn how to contact their own psychic selves and that we could learn something about incorporating ESP into our lives.
Alright, well a lot of people out there are going to say, okay, fine.
Where's the meat?
I mean, you made a bold statement that you were ready to bet your careers, which in a way you did, that this was true.
What specifics would you cite that were in your mind and his at that time to make such a definitive statement?
What had been done?
Well, at that time, there were a lot of experiments that had been done at Duke University by J.B.
Ryan with card guessing.
And people were able to guess significantly more cards right than you would expect by chance.
This work is well known.
But in the end, although people showed a lot of ESP, that ability declined.
And it's as though J.B.
Ryan, through boredom, Having people guessing cards discovered that it was possible to extinguish ESP in the laboratory.
That's of course not at all what his plan was.
So we tried to use much more interesting materials.
What's your best guess?
To extinguish ESP ability in the laboratory, what's your best guess about what in the environment of a laboratory would do that?
You have to motivate a person to stretch themselves, to get in touch with the part of themselves that is psychic, quiet their mind, and be able to expand their awareness to take part in the abilities that are available.
And you have to pay attention to the people one by one and not run them like rats through an experiment.
For the decade I was at SRI, We worked with a wide variety of people.
Government scientists, skeptical CIA engineers, cabinet-level visitors from the high-level government, and SRI scientists who were overseeing our program, and Army officers.
And each one of those was treated with respect as an individual, special person.
We would just do one or two trials with them a day, where they would have to describe what it looked like and
what was going on at a distant location where somebody else was hiding.
And our surprising finding is that psychic abilities is a latent ability, like a musical
ability.
Most people have that, and with a little guidance and a little permission, almost all people
can learn to develop psychic abilities.
I can't carry a tune, Russell.
So I guess it's a good majority of the people, and it's a latent ability, but I sure can't
carry a tune.
So I wish I could say I could, and that there was some latent music ability in me.
I love music, but boy, send me a singing and I wouldn't have a show.
Well, what's surprising is that if you love to listen to music and somebody will teach you to read music, then It's quite surprising, and I had this experience not too long ago, that even a fairly unmusical person can find that he's playing a little Mozart or a little Bach on the piano just if he extends the effort.
It used to be, 30 years ago, that any well-brought-up young man or woman was expected to learn to play the piano.
That's gone away now.
But just as psychic abilities are latent in us, We have taught at SRI dozens and dozens of people how to separate out the psychic noise, which we can talk about later.
Russell, are you familiar?
Now, I believe this is an offshoot of Stanford's research, but are you aware of the software program that is out there that allows you to try to sit there and affect a random number generator?
I'm sure you know about that.
Yes.
That thing works, Russell, and it works so well Let me tell you how well it works.
I can set it to running and it will score you at the end of a certain period of time.
And I can start the program running and leave the room and go do something in the other room and come back and the scores between 0 and 100% will be down like about 20%, 30% consistently, Russell.
But when I sit there and I try to manipulate the photographs in that software program, I consistently come up with 80, 85, 90, even 95% every single time.
What do you attribute that to?
The obvious ability of the mind to affect at least something as, and I'm not sure what the right word is here with respect to a computer and a random number generator, I don't know.
I don't know what to attribute that to.
This work has been going on at Princeton University for almost 20 years now under the directorship of Bob John, the physics professor, engineering professor, and they have found that a wide variety of people, again, are able to affect their random number generators.
It's kind of a micro-psychokinesis where a person interacts with the machine to cause a change in the random distribution of the machine.
In our work, we're concerned with the interaction between people, where the outflow of intention of a healer is able to affect the health and well-being of a person in a distant place.
In the distant healing, we think that this is not so much a psychokinetic ability, but
the very well documented data that we talk about involves apparently a healer outflowing
her intention to provide a kind of psychic template so the distant person is able to
it's like sending a psychic get well card so a person at a distance is able to mobilize
his or her own immune system and recuperative capabilities so that they get better.
And the data for this distant healing is now becoming very, very strong.
But Russell, you would think it would have to be to really work, be more than a sort
of a psychic get well card.
In other words, there's some actual manipulation.
Believe me, my own dad has used a healer with some effect.
I mean, I've seen it in my own family, and we're full of pragmatic folks, with the exception of one of my sisters.
Very, very pragmatic.
My dad is somebody who would never in a million years have considered this, but he did it and claimed it worked.
And I can't imagine how it could work without there being specific, more than just a sort of a mental suggestion or a mental get well card.
In other words, if you've got tumors on your liver, Russell, And somebody at a distance is able to do something that causes those tumors to either shrink or go into remission or go away.
Something real happened there.
I certainly agree that it's something real.
What it appears is that there's a near field effect.
When the healer is up close with the patient, you have something perhaps like therapeutic touch, which is really therapeutic non-touch as you know.
In the near field, you might have an energetic interaction between the healer and the sick person, but the interesting observation from the published data now is that healers all over the country can affect sick people who are thousands of miles away, and the distance between them doesn't make any difference.
See, this blows me away, because of all the people that I've talked to with regard to remote viewing, I've always asked about I agree with you.
to remotely affect something and at that point almost every single remote viewer
has backed away a million miles an hour and they say I don't think that can be
done we don't know anything about it and yet remote healing seems to use the same
rough medium and does in fact have an effect I agree with you in our first
book in miracles of mind Jane and I got together because she is a spiritual
healer and I'm as a remote viewing teacher we felt that there was a
commonality between these two things Many people want us to write two books.
Why don't Russell write about psychic spying and Jane write about spiritual healing?
But we felt that they were related.
And the way they're related is that in the remote viewing, you are inflowing information and it appears that in the distant healing, You're outflowing.
It's hard to say that they are feeling that you're outflowing psychic energy, but the data really don't support that.
The data indicate that the distant healing, which can span the continent, the only way we know that you can have connections spanning thousands of miles with no change in effect with distance is not to have it and energetic.
If you've got a psychic searchlight in Chicago, it's going to be very hard for you to affect somebody in San Francisco to the same extent as somebody across the room.
Doesn't make sense.
But in the remote viewing and the psychic perception data that we have, we know for a fact that you can see things 10,000 miles away equally well that you can see something across the room.
Well, let me flat out ask you.
You personally taught the first six army intelligence officers from Fort Meade how to do remote viewing.
Yes, that is true.
How in heaven's name did you do that?
I mean, at this point it was a very new, dare we call it a science, field.
Well, we had the inspiration of Ingo Swann, who taught us all how to do remote viewing.
Ingo is without a doubt the father of remote viewing, as we know it in America.
And we saw him do that.
And we also saw Pat Price do it.
Both of these men were a gift to the field.
They were both incredible.
Ingo, of course, is still alive.
Pat is deceased.
But both of these people were psychic superstars who showed us what remote viewing looks like.
The next person that I worked with was Hella Hammond.
The CIA wanted us to bring in a control person.
We've seen what Ingo and Pat Price can do.
They can create architecturally accurate drawings of distant places, but these men are experienced psychics that use DSP in their lives.
We want to see what an ordinary person does, and I chose Hella Hammett, who is a lifelong friend of mine, a Life magazine photographer, and she promised me that she had not done any psychic stuff before.
I remember sitting on the floor in our laboratory, Hell Putoff had gone to hide someplace, and Hella and I, at that point, had to figure out what I'm going to tell her to do, and provide the guidance that was really the hallmark of the work for the next 20 years.
Alright, hold it right there, we're at the bottom of the hour, so you take a brief break.
Russell Targ is my guest, and you're in for, as I said, as you can see now, a real treat tonight.
Going back to the genesis of the remote viewing program, Russell Tarrick, with Hal Puthoff, with Ingo Swan, who indeed is the father of remote viewing, and by the way, lives just over the hill from me.
I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight an encore presentation of Costa Costa M from September 7th 1999
I don't ask you what's going on I don't ask you that and it's not a sign of love. Don't say that you love me.
Yes tell me how to...
Falling in love was the last thing I had on my mind.
Holding you was a warmth that I thought I could never find.
Just trying to decide Or stay by your side I know I could cry I just can't find the answers to the
questions That keep going through my mind Hey babe, isn't it time?
Isn't it time, isn't time to wake? Falling in love could be your mistake
Isn't it time, isn't time to wake? Falling in love could be your mistake
Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired September 7th, 1999.
Good morning, Russell Targ is here, and boy do I have a question for him.
He's one of the originals, one of those who taught the first to learn remote viewing.
So in a moment, the question comes.
Now we take you back to the night of September 7th, 1999, on Arkbell's Somewhere in Time.
And...
Once again, Russell Targ.
Russell, I have a very serious question about remote viewing itself.
What can I tell you?
My understanding of it is that you have a control person Who will issue a number, it can be a number I guess, or it can be almost anything, to the remote viewer.
The remote viewer then, based on that, will attempt to visualize where a person is hiding, or an object, or I don't know, something at a distance.
And then to actually perhaps even sketch what it is.
Is that roughly accurate?
Yeah, we call that a monitor.
If I were interviewing you, I might say, I've got a very unusual item in my hand right now.
And I would just say to you, I have an interesting object.
And as I said with Hela, as we sat the first time, I would say, don't tell me what the object is.
That kind of naming is very difficult.
The analysis and memory and imagination are the enemies of psychic ability.
Don't tell me what I've got.
Just tell me about your mental pictures, the shapes and the forms And the feelings that come to you.
Alright, here's my question.
How are you able to discern that the remote viewer is in fact discerning or getting this information through the remote viewing process that we all know you worked on for 20 years versus some sort of mental communion between the control and the remote viewer?
Oh, because in most of the work we did, well, there's several answers to that.
In the work we did at SRI, the outbound experimenter would be hidden away somewhere and we don't know where he is.
So that neither I as an interviewer nor my viewer of the day Had any idea at all where the people had gone.
Well, then what was the job of the controller?
The job of the controller sounds a little controlling to me.
I was an interviewer.
Interviewer, okay.
And I'm trying to get the person to describe their mental pictures to me rather than to guess where it is.
In the San Francisco Bay Area, the person wants to say, I know where they've gone.
They've gone to the Golden Gate Bridge, or they've gone to some other famous thing.
And I have to say, no, no, don't guess where they are.
Just tell me about your mental pictures.
Tell me what are you experiencing.
Right.
And my goal is to keep the person in touch with their experience.
And you... And keep them from guessing.
And you don't know yourself.
Oh, of course not.
I don't know.
I don't know where they've gone, but I don't even know where they might have gone.
See, off to the side, this is a kind of lesson.
If you're looking for a psychic, as you walk down the avenue and you want a fortune teller, and you go into Madame Catherine's Salon, and you say, let me tell you about myself.
My name is Art, and I live in wherever I live.
And she says, well, tell me what's your problem.
That woman is not really a psychic.
The real psychic will say, no, no, don't tell me anything.
I don't want to know anything because everything you tell her makes her job harder.
So she wants to work with a blank slate and know nothing.
So a real psychic does not go on a fishing expedition.
They don't want to know anything.
Doesn't want to know anything.
So when I'm interviewing you in a real remote viewing experiment, I don't have an object in my hand.
Somebody has dropped a box on the table between us and I will then guide you to describe your mental impressions with regard to what's in the box.
And we're each ignorant of what's there.
Neither of us have any idea what's there.
And it's between you and what's in the box and your experience at a later time when you get to see what's in the box.
So you do have two channels open that you have a connection between the object in the box as it sits right now, which we call a clairvoyant connection.
Yes.
And you also have the powerful connection of your experience in a little while.
Because we know that you're able to describe objects that are not yet chosen.
And you can see those just as well.
If you have a precognitive dream, you have a dream tonight about An elephant walking across the path in front of your house.
You say, my God, I've never seen such a thing.
I've never had such a dream.
That's really amazing.
And then the next afternoon, the circus comes to town.
The elephant gets loose and walks across your path.
We would say that Wednesday afternoon's elephant was the cause of your dream the previous night.
Your experience of the elephant at a later time Cause you to have the dream of the elephant on Tuesday night.
At a later... but that's time travel.
It's time travel of your awareness.
Your awareness is unlimited in what it can experience.
You can describe and experience things that are in the physical distance.
are also the physical future right uh... this is a very old idea you realize
oh yes uh... very all those
of all scriptures the earliest they did
twenty five hundred years before christ the very first mystical set peacefully out of rock
looked out and notice that separation is an illusion
that we are not separated from other things and in particular were not separated from
one another and all religions
from that idea that we're all connected to each other Okay.
I want to describe something to you and you tell me what this was.
This was all two years ago on the program and we were discussing remote viewing and I didn't have a very good concept in my own mind of what remote viewing really was I guess but I wanted to try and experiment so I took an object here in the house and I put it in a specific place and I said all right all of you out there draw This object.
And I got about a gazillion wrong drawings.
But!
Here's the big but.
I got two drawings which were specifically the item.
and the item was a little 4x6 marble laser picture of me that somebody had put into a marble by laser
and it was in a little metal frame that kind of curled around it, holding it in a very strange way
and Russell, two people, sent me exact drawings of the marble photograph with the metal going, curving in exactly
the way that it was and then there was one additional thing.
My wife and I both felt almost like we were in a dream.
Almost violated during the time this experiment was going on, which was, I don't know, about an hour, hour and a half, something like that.
It's like you could feel a thousand eyes around you.
Now, maybe we were setting ourselves up to feel that, but I'm telling you, it was palpable.
You could feel it.
It's like there was presence all around us.
I completely believe that.
That's a very popular experiment, as you may know.
It's called distance staring.
Now, originally, this is a kind of guy kind of experiment, because guys have the idea that if you stare at the back of a woman's neck in the theater, you can make her turn around.
I'm sure you've heard that before.
No, I haven't.
Now I'm going to try it.
But out of that came a very easy to replicate scientific experiment, where you have a person sitting quietly in a soundproof room with a Uh, electrodes connected to a couple of fingers so you can measure his or her skin resistance.
Uh huh.
And you have a video camera looking at that person.
Then in another room you have a viewer looking at the video so that he can see the person.
And then on a random schedule, sometimes he will, sometimes he will not, look at the video at the television.
So some of the time To make it concrete, some of the time the guy is staring at the woman and sometimes he's not.
And what we have shown in work at Mind Science Foundation in Texas and at work at SRI and all over the world, this staring experiment is during those periods where the person's video image is being attended to, you get a change in skin resistance and also blood volume.
So the person's physiology is aware that somebody is attending to them.
And this has been very, very well replicated, this kind of distance staring.
You don't even have to be physically staring at the person if you're just attending to the image.
So you're feeling that millions of people were looking in on your house and you had that experience.
I can certainly concur that that's a likely thing to happen.
to have happened to you.
Okay, then let me give you one more.
I should say the Russians were interested during the Cold War in using that.
The Russians were very interested in behavior modification.
So they wanted to know if they could have a powerful psychic look at the image of a
foreign leader on television and affect the health of that leader.
Well, yes.
That's another kind of malevolent distance staring.
In your opinion, would such a thing be possible?
I wouldn't be surprised if you could confuse... I don't think you'd make a person sick, because I think that healing energy is basically a loving energy.
But I think that a person staring at somebody else who's unsuspected might indeed confuse him.
But in what other area of physics can we talk about energy that cannot be used for good and evil?
Just words, so we can have the discussion good and evil.
What other energy cannot be used for both?
Well, energy only is... I understand your idea.
The remote viewing is a perception and you can use remote viewing to find your lost car keys or to
Spy on somebody but energy is a force of nature all that energy
Ordinary energy can do is heat something up There's no beam that I can shine on you to make you cold,
but if you can heal somebody's physical ill Why can't you cause it?
Or is that still perhaps up in the air?
What it appears is that healing is a kind of surrender by the healer with a loving intent that causes the person's homeostatic processes.
This is distant healing.
This is the far away healing.
Yes, yes.
That you are allowing the person to achieve a kind of resonance with the healer and heal themselves, pull themselves together.
And that kind of loving energy appears to manifest from the surrender of the healer.
In experiments with Olga Worrell, that Elizabeth Rauscher and Beverly Rubik did, it was a great experiment, where Olga Worrell, the famous, powerful healer, they wanted her to kill the bacteria in a test tube.
And she said, I have no way of doing that.
I can only heal things.
The healers are not able to kill stuff.
So the experimenters infected the bacteria, gave the bacteria penicillin so they were dying, and then Olga Wuerl could extend the lives of the sick bacteria.
Wow!
Wow, I say again!
So... It was a classy experiment.
Again, healing at a distance.
And she could not exactly bring them back to life, but keep them alive even though they were suffering from penicillin.
I understand, and I can see how the control could easily be done on that as well.
All right, then, see what you think of this.
I, for a while, I conducted a series of about seven experiments, Russell, mass experiments, in which I asked millions of people to concentrate for a protracted period of time on bringing rain to an area that had no rain in the forecast and desperately needed it.
And Russell, it worked, and worked again, and again, and again.
And it actually got to the point where I started having people asking me to have mass concentrations with regard to the course of a hurricane.
And I started getting, I'm not afraid to tell you, I started getting scared.
Because I started imagining, for example, if this is real, And it sure seems to be, based on the experiments we have done.
Then I might stall a hurricane out over a sea, where it would build into a Category 5 and then come smashing into land.
In other words, I was in an area that I had no real idea of what I was doing, and whether I might be able to do harm instead of good, and so I stopped.
Yeah, we often get into trouble when we try and improve nature.
Wilhelm Reich was very interested in cloud busting and affecting storms.
Yes.
I don't have personal experience with that.
A lot of 19th century levitation that was going on, and that has not been very forthcoming in the laboratory.
In my experience, our perceptual capabilities are almost limitless.
There are a lot of ways to screw up an experiment so it doesn't work by doing it improperly, but it's very hard to imagine a question that you can ask a psychic that he could not answer.
So in a sense, we're omniscient as individuals.
We have that capability.
Not to say that you can know everything because we're only finite, but one by one.
You can know whatever there is to know.
Well, either with respect to remote viewing itself, and all you understand about it now, and or the kind of experiment I just talked to you about, is there a possibility of a negative result, danger, either for the remote viewer or for those affected by what's done?
Well, certainly in the experiment you described, if people are able to affect the course of a hurricane, there's There's major damage that can be done.
In the remote viewing, as far as we know, there's not danger done.
Al Puthoff and I, for example, eventually went to work for the CIA.
Although they are not our favorite customer, favorite people to work for, we were, as scientists, in favor of intelligence as compared with ignorance.
Now, there's got to be an interesting story there.
Science Usually doesn't much like folks like the CIA.
How did that get done?
In other words, how did you get talked into doing it?
Well, we didn't require talking into it.
We had been describing distant churches and distant swimming pools with great accuracy and preparing to write a paper for the Institute of Electrical Engineers Talking for the first time about the ability to describe things thousands of miles away.
But as always, scientists are looking for money.
And we took our findings to the director of the Central Intelligence Agency and showed him what we were able to do.
With the general idea that this is the middle of the Cold War, it seemed obvious to us that we would be able to describe what was going on in the Soviet Union and elsewhere.
Sure.
And although the CIA is engaged in all sorts of operations that we didn't like, we felt that for the good of the country, for national security, given a choice, we prefer to know what's going on than be ignorant.
Like we, as scientists, we're in favor of information.
So the courageous head of the CIA at that time heard our story and said, you guys are wasting your time looking at swimming pools and churches in Palo Alto.
I have some places that really need a description in the Soviet Union.
If you can describe one of my favorite places, we will support your work.
And that was one of the great successes of Pat Price, who was able to describe the inside and the outside of a Soviet weapon factory with very, very great detail.
I've never heard this story.
That was the test.
That was the stuff that we got declassified and was a spur for writing Miracles of Mind.
I got the material declassified through Freedom of Information to me so that I was able to publish the description of the remote viewing work that we did for the CIA and the drawings that Pat Price made.
And just to be on the safe side, I published the letter that the CIA sent to me So that I could print these drawings that still have classified, that still have secret on the top and bottom.
So that's all it took for the director of the CIA once he saw that you were off and running?
He's a highly intelligent, courageous man who became president of Lockheed.
So when the SRI program quieted down, I went to Lockheed as the laser physicist and he went to Lockheed as president.
So we continued our association for another decade.
I understand.
All right, Russell, hold it right there.
You've got a good break.
We're at the top of the hour.
Well, there's a little piece of history that I had never heard before.
There was a test, and a pretty non-trivial test at that.
The precise description of a Russian weapons factory.
So that's what got it all started, huh?
Fascinating.
Russell Tarrick is my guest from the high desert.
I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 7th, 1999.
Every night I hope and pray, a dream lover will come my way.
Dream lover will come my way.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 7th, 1999.
This, of course, is my form of time travel.
It'll definitely take you back.
And you'll notice, as you listen to it, if you're old enough, there will come with it a picture.
of whatever was going on in your life.
It really begins to paint a very, very vivid picture of what was going on in your life at that time.
so it's not a lifetime travel well tomorrow night betty edie who's nationally known uh...
is a bit incredibly uh...
talented psychic actually uh... rise about the afterlife
very specifically about the afterlife has written a book called the ripple
I don't know if that would be the Reading Ripple or not, but it's called The Ripple Effect, and we'll ask her about that.
And then the following night, Gordon Cooper is going to be here, the astronaut.
Gordon Cooper.
Right now though, Russell Targ, and we're talking about remote viewing.
Russell, the remote viewing program, they said, was cancelled.
Do you believe that to be true?
I think that at the end of the Cold War it wound down and that there was no discernible enemy anymore.
So the answer is yes, the remote viewing program was eventually cancelled.
But we do have...
It's 95 at the end of the Remote Viewing Program.
But we do have discernible enemies.
Well, we have no principal enemy who's threatening to end the world as we know it.
No, that's true.
The Cold War was over by 95, and there was no longer the threat of the mutual assured destruction.
Right, but suppose we had or wanted or had a reason to know Where somebody with a suitcase nuclear device might be.
That would be pretty important, wouldn't it?
That would be a good job for a remote viewer.
We would know how to go after that and work on that problem.
We have the ability to describe things that are going on in the distance, often with surprising accuracy.
When we were doing operational things for the CIA, We would generally not be the only ones doing it, but we were just another untested asset to be compared with the other assets that were available.
Human assets, satellites, whatever, reconnaissance, all put together like a puzzle.
That's right.
Now, in the experiment at the top of the hour I was describing with Pat Price, would you like me to finish up that story?
Please.
The director of the CIA said that we want to see if you guys can really do this with an operationally significant target.
So they sent a physicist, a highly intelligent fellow from the CIA, to our lab in California with geographical coordinates.
And when I was all sequestered with Price in our electrically shielded room, he gave us the coordinates of some place.
We had no idea what it was at all.
Of course, we suspected it's in the Soviet Union.
And Price, as he would do, he would polish his glasses and close his eyes and describe his mental impressions of, in this case, psychically lying on top of a building as a giant crane rolled back and forth over his psychic body.
This is the biggest crane I've ever seen.
It's got wheels on each side of the building.
He said, this is very complicated, I better draw.
And he drew a giant gantry crane, which he called a gantry.
Yes.
And showed what it looked like with the four wheels on one side of the building and four wheels on the other.
And he said, that's what I get.
And he handed in this very accurate drawing, which we show in our book, in Miracles of Mind, we show Price's drawings.
As we gave to the CIA contract monitor.
Can you describe the expression on the face of the CIA contract monitor?
Well, he was very shocked because he knew what the outside looked like.
He unrolled his secret satellite photograph.
This is at a time when you weren't even allowed to say the word satellite photograph.
And Price had drawn as good an architectural, mechanical drawing, three-dimensional Can you repeat what he said when he saw that?
It's the sort of thing that an airplane pilot says as the plane is about to crash.
I'm familiar with that phrase.
He then went back to Washington and said, what we'd like you to do is describe what's inside the building.
Of course, what you've described, we already knew.
This is just a test.
Can you tell us what they're doing?
And Price then, in a subsequent trial next day, says that they're building a giant 60-foot diameter sphere out of steel, and they're making it out of gores, sort of orange peel sections that they're welding together, and Price says they're having trouble welding them because the metal is getting distorted.
Now this is pretty detailed information from a psychic practitioner.
Three years later, after Price died, We then learned, the CIA learned, that in fact they were making 60 foot diameter steel containment vessels for a particle beam weapon to shoot down the satellites that we were using to take those very pictures.
So we were able to confirm that what Price looked at was exactly the right structure, both inside and outside, and these extraordinary accurate drawings We're really a hallmark of the very best of the psychics we work with.
For one second, let me pull you out of the remote viewing aspect of all this.
You were significant in developing lasers.
Yes.
That was my earliest incarnation.
And you've been out of that business for how long now?
Well, I really had a dual career.
I was in the laser business Fifteen years making very high power lasers, stemming from even the beginning of the lasers, before there were any lasers.
Understood.
And then in 62, it's all very confusing, in 72 Hal Puthoff and I started the SLI program.
So for the next 14 years I was involved in psychic stuff, learning about remote viewing, And then I went back to laser work for a dozen years at Lockheed.
They're putting lasers on airplanes to shoot down Scud missiles and measure wind velocity and detect air turbulence.
So I went back into aerospace for a dozen years until I... Lasers were sort of my roots.
That is, I studied spectroscopy at Columbia University.
So the ESP was a 14-year mid-course correction that stemmed out of my earlier interest in magic, stage magic, and I am again now doing research in extrasensory perception, investigating how the future affects the past.
My laser question would be, and you don't have to answer this, because you may have direct knowledge that would I don't want to make it inappropriate for you to answer, but if you were to speculate about what laser capability technology level we have now reached, perhaps even from orbit, what do you imagine our capabilities to be now?
I understand what you're asking.
I'm trying to think of what to do.
People talk about megawatt class lasers.
That's a lot of power.
A megawatt laser can do quite a bit of damage from many, many miles away, let's say.
You mean on ground, through the atmosphere?
I'm sort of not comfortable.
Okay.
I'm now a couple of years away from that.
And I don't know what's classified at the moment.
I've got you.
I understand.
I had to try.
I had to try with your kind of background, so I understand that answer completely.
You can do a lot of damage from a great distance, let's say.
It's hard energy.
The energy aspect is really so interesting in this.
We all want to control energy, so in our First book, In Miracles of Mind, we discovered that a lot of psychic energy is available, and by golly, I can control that energy.
I can see into the distance and find my lost car keys or parking space, or see into the future and buy silver commodities, make money in the market, or I can Make coherence with another person.
Heal that person.
It's as though you're able to control that energy.
It's about self-improvement, and self-improvement's not bad.
So there's nothing wrong, in other words, you can't do anything precisely negatively with this energy, as we discussed earlier.
That's right.
But the other... But you can read the market, and you can make money?
Yes.
Part of the mind, with our other book, we say there's a lot of energy available, and that energy can use me.
And that energy can use me by way of healing and achieving an experience of something outside of myself.
Could you tell me and everybody else what it... I mean, my God, here you are, a physicist working on lasers, and it's a little hard for the average person to understand how you make the transition To the mind disciplines of remote viewing.
Because one is so much hands-on hardware, and the other is so much hands-off... Well, you could say in a sense it's all remote sensing.
There's remote sensing with lasers, there's remote sensing with ESP.
But to answer your question seriously, I got interested in ESP as a college student where I was doing magic on stage.
And every magician, even the skeptical ones, will tell you that when you're on stage, you're in an ESP conducive condition.
Your eyes are closed and you're trying to inflow information.
Generally, you know most of it from a trick you've done.
You've deceived somebody, so you know what's on their mind.
But typically, with a trick that's called billet reading, where you'll be standing on stage, Pretending to read the mind of a lady in the audience.
Yes.
You've already read the question that she's submitted.
You read it surreptitiously.
And you know that the lady has lost her dog.
So, you close your eyes and you hold your hand to your head and you say, there's a woman in the audience and she's looking for a dog.
Is there somebody looking for a dog?
And the woman will stand up and say, yes, yes, I am.
At that moment a magician with the lights in his face and the heat of performance upon
him will notice that he is also experiencing a white frame house with an apple tree in
the front yard and a brick facade.
He will then supplement his trickery by whatever images come to him.
He will then use the trick he has already done to make the trick he is most familiar
with.
He will then use the trick he has already done to make the trick he is most familiar
with.
He will then use the trick he has already done to make the trick he is most familiar
with.
He will then use the trick he has already done to make the trick he is most familiar
with.
Wow!
Then, apparently you must have studied a number of magicians.
How many magicians, percentage-wise, would react positively to what you have just said and say, oh yes, that's happened to me?
I think there's been a survey that I can't quote.
I was just discussing that.
With one of my researchers, and a survey had been done, and a majority of magicians would confirm that.
I don't know how many.
Melvin Christopher was the magician that SRI hired to oversee their work.
Because SRI, even though I had a background in magic, SRI was worried that some wily person coming in would deceive us.
So we always had a magician oversee what we were doing, so we were not fooled.
I didn't want to spend ten years of my career and be deceived in the end.
But certainly Melvin Christopher confirmed that.
I believe Kreskin would also confirm that from his many writings.
He talks about heightened sensitivity.
So we think that this is a common experience, and it was certainly my experience, that psychic information was available.
And then as a young scientist, I thought it would be much more interesting to understand genuine psychic abilities than to continue deceiving people with trickery.
It was crystal clear to me that I was receiving impressions that I had no ordinary way to accommodate.
And it was really through my magic as a young scientist, through doing stage magic, that I got interested in exploring psychic abilities.
Um, you are familiar with many claims of psychokinetic occurrences, poltergeist activity, that sort of thing, things moving in the air.
Frequently, these things seem to occur, Russell, near maturing young women, young teenage girls most frequently seem to be involved in incidents of psychokinetic occurrence.
Do you have any thoughts on that, or do you think that it's all a bunch of baloney with regard to claims made of, you know, things actually move physically, moved with the mind?
Now, I think that things probably move physically.
In fact, I have a book in my hand by Ingo Swann called Psychic Sexuality.
His whole book that he just published privately talks about the energy that's associated with sexuality, whether it's repressed or manifest.
There's now a tremendous amount of published literature, investigations by psychic researchers, principally William Rowe.
Break all that down in English.
What is the basic contention with regard to sexual energy?
That's really interesting.
The sexual energy exists as an energetic force that can cause things to happen.
I have no I have direct experience with this, so I'm always much more comfortable telling you about something I've done, but there's a whole literature in the parapsychological field of repeated psychokinesis associated with individuals, and they're generally teenagers, boys or girls, incidentally.
Raging hormones, right?
Raging hormones find an outlet by breaking crockery or moving stuff around.
That's 100% not understood, incidentally.
I should say, as a physicist, when I came to Stanford after a decade at SRI, we had made great progress in understanding the psychology of psychic abilities, teaching people how to get in touch with the part of themselves that's psychic, but we had not learned a darn thing about the physics.
And since Hal Puthoff and I were both physicists, that was quite disappointing.
Do you believe in evolution?
In evolution.
Yes.
I think the evidence for evolution is overwhelming.
Okay, alright, fine.
Do you think that the abilities that we're discussing tonight are increasing with evolutionary ticks of the clock, or whether, in fact, we're in the process of more or less losing it through the distractions of the modern world?
I think that we're, well, I don't, I, it's a two-part question.
I think, yes, we're losing it through the distraction of the modern world.
Whether or not we have more psychic capability than the earliest Cromanian, I don't know.
Certainly, we have the capabilities available today that were manifest by the great mystics thousands of years ago.
But I think that with the noise of television and distractions and the internet, we live lives in such a way as we need never have another quiet moment.
And in order to get in touch with a part of yourself that's psychic, you absolutely must get quiet.
In the new book, in Heart of the Mind, we talk about how Carl Sagan spent his entire life searching for God, and each of his books He talks about the search for God.
It was always unsuccessful.
He turned over every rock.
And the reason this great intellect, this great astronomer could not find God, in our opinion, is he would never be quiet.
Alright, hold it.
In order to have that experience, you must be quiet.
Hold it right there.
Because I've got more I wish to ask you about, Carl Sagan.
Russell Targ is here, a physicist.
And a very prolific author.
You can check him out on my website right now.
I'm Art Bell, this is Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 7th, 1999.
Some down you better take care, if I find you been creeping down my back stairs.
I see trees of green, red roses too, I see them bloom.
you For me and you And I think to myself What a wonderful world I see skies of blue And clouds of white The bright blessed day The dark sacred night
Russell Targ is my guest.
He's a physicist.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast
to Coast AM from September 7th, 1999.
Real hands-on work.
Then, one of the initiators of the remote viewing program that America had for 20 years.
Needless to say, he's a pretty interesting person.
In a moment, we'll ask a little bit about Carl Sagan.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from September 7th, 1999.
All right.
About a month ago, I was in the middle of a meeting with a guy who was a little bit
Back now to Russell Tard.
You mentioned Carl Sagan, Russell, the late Carl Sagan.
He's a great astronomer.
Absolutely.
With a unique ability to communicate, of course.
You know, he's a common person out there.
An amazing man.
But he has revealed something, I guess it was due to be revealed after his death, that he smoked marijuana.
He was a proponent, a secret one, of marijuana.
Moreover, he maintained that that accounted for a great deal of Uh, his, uh, creativity.
That he had, uh, very, uh, great creative spells while stoned, frankly.
And it was a remarkable thing to have heard.
Uh, were you surprised by it?
Boy, anybody who was alive in the 1960s, 1970s probably investigated marijuana.
It certainly, that was not part of Dagan's general The interesting thing about marijuana and other drugs with regard to psychic abilities is that they make people feel very psychic, but in testing their psychic ability, it doesn't actually enhance their psychic ability.
In particular, in remote viewing, remote viewing is a kind of intellectual task in that you have to separate out Your psychic noise, your imagination and your memories.
Yes.
If you ask somebody what's in the box, they'll start guessing.
Is it a piggy bank?
Is it a paper clip?
Is it a dollar bill?
Sure.
If they know you can't do that, you've got to separate out your imagination.
You've got to surrender your judgment analysis, because analysis is what makes us so capable as human beings.
You have to quiet all of that chatter.
And begin to inflow the information.
And when you have given up your capabilities, whether in alcohol or marijuana or anything else, once you've begun to dampen your acuity, then you no longer can control that chatter.
So, although, I mean, the joke in parapsychology research is really what I said before, that when people are smoking marijuana, they feel psychic, But the truth is, that's not a way to develop psychic abilities.
So, that's your answer with respect to psychic abilities.
His statement was with regard to creativity, and I suppose they're very closely related, but they may not be the same thing.
Is that true?
Well, creativity usually comes when you start to surrender your judgment, when you take a step outside of your ordinary experiences.
Are you, in effect, saying surrendering your ego?
I'm exactly saying surrendering your ego.
And the idea of surrendering your ego as a path to transcendence, a path to experiencing something outside yourself, is the oldest spiritual treatment in the book.
The oldest Vedas from 2500 years before Christ, every mystic who has ever sat quietly noticed certain things.
One of the things that they noticed is that we are not separated from one another.
That we have a shared consciousness.
That the idea that you're your brother's keeper comes because you and your brother share some consciousness.
And the idea of surrendering ego It's something that's taught in the Vedas, it was taught in the Jewish traditions, and Jesus taught it.
All the mystics have taught this as a way of experiencing something beyond yourself.
Well, then let me ask you the... I'm not being easy on you here.
So, you can tell me to get stuffed if you don't like the questions.
But I asked this of quite a few people because it's such an important question.
I think I know your answer based on what you said about Carl Sagan.
But in the movie Contact, Jodie Foster was forced to sit in a chair and finally either declare she believed in the God of the Bible or not.
And her answer was not, and she didn't get the seat.
If you had been in that seat, what would your answer have been?
I would have said that God is an experience that doesn't require belief.
It's an experience that's available to us all.
And in the experience that we have today, it's as though all of us are living workstations already connected up to a spiritual internet.
We have the capability of experiencing something beyond ourselves, and that experience is one of surrender.
It's an experience of residing in love.
I mean, Jesus talked about the peace that passes understanding is the opportunity to become overwhelmed with love and recognize that there is something outside of ourselves, greater than ourselves, that's available to be experienced.
A creative force?
Yes, the creative force, and that's the experience.
Now, the belief would be The belief in Judaism or Christianity or Kabbalah or
Buddhism or some other path.
That belief is a kind of sacramental software.
It's a software package that allows us to connect to something beyond ourselves.
But we really have that capability within ourselves.
And all the holy wars are fought between religious groups over software.
Of course.
It's over what path shall I follow, and it's the path to achieve that experience, that connection to God, that connection to something beyond yourself.
And that belief in God, that creative force, is available.
It's available to the surrendered mind.
And it was quite amazing, in Kabbalah, they say, in Jewish mystic tradition, in order to experience God, you've got to annihilate the ego.
And those happen to be the exact words that are used in Vedanta, where they say to experience something beyond yourself, you've got to surrender your story.
You've got to give up the story that you keep telling people about who you are, and become part of something greater than who you are.
And this is not belief, because I'm not saying that you should believe anything.
The surprise is that the experience is available and does not require belief.
Is it possible, Russell, to be certain, personally, of the presence of God through the use of remote viewing?
Well, it's possible.
I'm certain of the presence of this loving experience, this experience beyond yourself.
You don't do that through remote viewing.
This remote viewing is not a spiritual path.
Any more than vegetarianism is a spiritual path.
But it was my understanding that a lot of the original remote viewers and some of the latter ones began to have some disturbing spiritual experiences when they weren't we're not supposed to.
Well, remote viewing is a way of quieting your mind.
This physicist here began on a spiritual path courtesy of the CIA.
I was a psychic spy for the CIA and found God because the CIA paid me for a decade to sit in the dark with my eyes closed, getting my mind quiet and helping other people get in touch With their quiet mind capabilities.
They're probably not happy to hear you say that.
Well, at least they do some good.
Were there some remote viewers who cracked?
I would have to say, not on my watch.
The six people, Cal and I chose six people to teach remote viewing.
from a group of about 30 at Fort Meade, and we chose people who had had either a great interest in psychic abilities because of their experiences or other experiences in their life that led them and us to think that they would be able to take part in that.
So of the six people that we taught, they then went on, and of course Joe McMonigle is the most famous who's probably the greatest living psychic remote viewer that we know about.
All of these people came to us, and of course had never done remote viewing before, but sat in our little laboratory and we described what we thought was going on, and many of these people did excellently.
In fact, four out of the six people that we chose We're so successful that their results were independently statistically significant.
And of course, physicists get all excited about statistical significance.
Sure.
Because it means we can publish it in a refereed scientific journal and say, well, we're not making this stuff up.
This looks like a scientific experiment.
Because somebody goes to hide and the psychic is able to describe seven out of nine times where he was hiding.
So it's a quite amazing capability.
Do you believe personally that the Russians and the Chinese do presently or do not presently have a remote viewing program?
I have known both the Russian and the Chinese do rather poor experiments in this arena, I should say.
I visited Russia a couple of times and It's harder to be psychic in an unfree country than it is in a free country.
Because in order to be psychic, in order to be right, you have to be willing to be wrong.
You can't be in an environment where you're punished for being wrong.
Although it's certainly conceivable that the Russians and the Chinese are currently doing psychic abilities, I think the reason that this thing sprang forward Is because it's just easier to be psychic in California than it is in Moscow.
It was just a more permissive environment.
We considered the tens of millions of dollars in hardware at SRI, in our lobby, in our laboratories, to be a kind of permission-giving device.
We weren't using it in our research.
But people would come into the lab and see millions of dollars worth of hardware lying around.
So they would feel, we think, that SRI, this big wealthy institution, is giving me permission to be psychic.
You told me that in the lab experiments with the cards, that the lab environment itself actually began to kill the ability of those doing the reading.
Well, there are two reasons.
One is that guessing cards is obviously a very boring task.
That's sort of the simple explanation.
It is boring.
But more than that, It goes back to Madame Catherine that we talked about an hour ago.
If you know for a fact that this picture you're going to see is a circle, a square, or a star, and I say, OK, Art, I'm going to show you a circle, or a square, or a star.
What do you see?
Right.
I've created so much mental noise for you.
You now have a stored picture of those images.
So, even a great psychic would have a very hard time separating out which one you're going to see.
It's much easier to describe something of which you have no knowledge than something from a form set.
And so, even in the lab setting, or in the very strict military regime that the CIA would have certainly had, the same killing of ability didn't occur.
That's because we always had rich, outdoor targets.
But you're asking somebody to separate their consciousness from their body in a certain sense.
Yes.
And they're more able to do that, as Ingo Swann would always say, don't trivialize my ability.
If you want me to separate my consciousness from my body, to expand my awareness, give me some worthwhile reason to do it.
Don't ask me to describe some silly picture in an envelope.
So that in all of our work at SRI and the work that Jane Catherine and I have done subsequently, we always had real three-dimensional objects that give the person a kind of reward for going to the trouble to describe them.
All right, well, here's something I've never understood about time travel and still don't.
Maybe you can help me.
It has been told to me by every remote viewer that I have interviewed that Observing events or describing events in time, back in time, or ahead in time, is part of what can be done.
I agree with that.
You do?
Especially looking at things back in time is very complicated.
In a nutshell, if you describe what happened a hundred years ago, Nobody knows whether it's true until you verify it, of course.
Right.
So one of the places you could have gotten the information is looking backwards a hundred years in time.
An easier place to get it is from the verification in your future.
So it's just very hard to tell whether somebody actually looked back in time.
But looking forward in time is very easy to verify if we decide to show you an object Of a particular kind, if the silver market goes up, we'll show you a different object if it goes down.
And nobody on Earth knows what those objects could be, because silver doesn't trade until tomorrow.
And you say, it looks to me like a soda bottle with a pink top.
Silver goes up, and we show you the target that the judge had chosen, and you get to see a soda bottle.
That target had not been chosen until the future event occurred.
So we know for a fact that the only place you could have gotten that information time after time is by looking into your future.
And as a matter of interest, in such controlled experiments, Russell, what percentage of time Were the people able to discern the gold market's following days?
Well, in our first silver experiments that we did some time ago, we did nine trials at the rate of one trial per week, and we got them all correct.
It went nine out of nine.
All of them?
All of them.
And we made the front page of the Wall Street Journal, and Nova did a film about us.
The following year, I should say, our investor, who had made more than $100,000 in year one,
wanted to do experiments at twice the rate, two experiments a week.
That was faster than we were able to do an orderly protocol.
We ran into problems simply doing the experiment at that rate, and in fact were not successful
the following year.
And just for good measure, Jane Catron and I, in publishing Heart of the Mind, a publisher
asked us, ìIf youíre telling people how to do psychic stuff, we would like you to
demonstrate that you can do it.î So in our own little controlled experiment with other judges, we were successful 11 out of 12 times.
So even mild-mannered authors and scientists can be psychic when the necessity level is high enough.
I would say, Russell, instead of getting energized and wanting double, you know, which is a human thing to do, He should have moved from silver to gold and stayed with the same number of experiments.
I would agree with that.
All right.
Hold on, Russell.
When we get back, I'd like to hook you up with some people in the audience who I'm sure by now have very serious questions for you.
Would that be all right?
Oh, good.
All right.
Stay right there.
Russell Targ is my guest.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Good morning, everybody.
Wherever you are, you're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 7th, 1999.
1999 I can't survive, I can't save a life without your love
Oh baby, don't hold me this way, no I can't exist, I can't exist
I'll surely miss your tender kiss Lonely days, lonely nights
Where would I be without my woman?
Lonely days Lonely nights.
Where would I be without my woman?
Good morning, Mr. Sunshine.
You brighten up my day.
Come sit beside me.
Come sit beside me, think of me.
Beside me, think of me.
Russell Targ is here.
He's a physicist.
He actually helped invent the laser.
Then, into the CIA's remote viewing program.
September 7, 1999.
Good morning everybody.
Russell Targ is here.
He's a physicist.
He actually helped invent the laser.
Then, into the CIA's remote viewing program.
And now, a lot to tell you about all of this.
We're going to go to the phone shortly and let you ask whatever questions you would like.
like it is a rare opportunity all right very briefly because it's a kind of a setup and
because it's interesting and because i think you're here
we're going to go to florida and uh...
uh... interesting gentleman there are do you uh...
do you wish to give your name sir Yes.
Yeah.
You don't mind giving your name?
No, I don't care.
Okay, your name is Randall Tomes.
Uh-huh.
And where are you in Florida, Randall?
Right near the Kennedy Space Center.
Near the Kennedy Space Center.
And about an hour and a half ago, what did you observe?
There was three lights up in the sky, and they were flying not like you would see airplanes, just all over the place.
The only thing that's close to it that I was going to ask you about, it might be someone could do this with lasers, but who would have lasers You know, to shine up in the clouds, to reproduce.
Let me ask you, is it a laser?
In other words, it's either something extraterrestrial or it's somebody projecting.
Yeah, it's something so fast, there's no way that, you know, it's anything that's aerobatic or, you know, like a plane or anything like that.
Okay, and this was near the Kennedy Space Center?
Oh, yeah.
It was more or less like in the southeast, like out over the ocean.
But it was kind of hazy.
When it was shining through the haze and they were flying for about an hour.
Well, my friend... Circles, figure eights... Long enough for you to call a friend and say, go look at that.
I'm sorry, go ahead.
I say, long enough for you to call a friend and say, go look at that.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I had a friend come over to my house.
He drove about 15 minutes and we sat here and watched him for another 15.
And I didn't even actually see it from the start.
I came out and And I've seen them, I don't know how long they've been flying out there.
All right, listen, sorry to awaken you, but I responded to your fax to me, and I wanted to get that on the air.
Oh, yeah.
All right.
Randall, thank you.
All right.
Bye-bye.
Good night.
That, Russell, is going to cause me to ask you, what, if anything, is known about whatever in the hell is flying in our skies that are reported, like, This last gentleman flashes over New Mexico that light up thousands of square miles.
Really weird things going on in our skies.
Has there ever been anything developed in remote viewing that tried to look at this phenomenon?
Ingo Swann has described experiences with unidentified flying objects in his book called Penetrations.
In our program, people did not see flying saucers.
Certainly, there is definitely UFO experiences.
Thousands or tens of thousands of people are having UFO experiences, but it's unclear what those experiences come from, whether from another dimension, or from the future, or from another planet.
We just don't know that yet.
I would say that nobody knows that yet.
But it's obvious that there's some real phenomenon, because thousands of people are having the experience.
Fascinating.
So, Engelswahn certainly has mentioned it.
Oh yeah.
He wrote a book called Penetrations, which talks about the experiences that he's had with UFOs.
That's not my experience.
I think that you have to be open for it or looking for it in order to have that experience.
I've seen a lot of amazing things in my life, but flying saucers, UFOs are not part of that.
All right, let's take a few phone calls and see what might be out there.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Art Bell and Russell Tarrant.
Hello.
Hi, Rick Mabel, Albuquerque, New Mexico.
I'm a magician, escape artist, 33 years.
Oh, really?
Okay.
Did you say we're on live right now?
We're on the air.
Yes, we're on the air.
Oh, great.
Actually, I wanted to tell you how ESP had actually changed my entire life.
Growing up as a magician and a scape artist, actually, you tend to question everything as a magician.
You tend to think maybe there's a trick to something or everything.
I used to have what I called the Amazing Randy mentality.
He's a magician out there who says there is no such thing as ESP.
Actually, what had happened is, I remember this one kid asking me 18 years ago if I believed in it.
I thought really hard and I said, well, no, not really.
Actually, it was about a week after that that I was at a party.
I met this girl that I really liked.
She said she was in the ESP.
I thought that was kind of similar to me being a magician.
I was kind of interested.
I jokingly said, why don't I just guess your phone number?
She said, yeah, why don't you do that?
She grabbed a pen and a piece of paper.
The way that I am, I try to use logic.
I said most numbers in Albuquerque start with a 2, so the first number is a 2, right?
She goes, come on, just clear your head.
So I had been practicing some Transcendental Meditation, so I just cleared my head, and an 8 popped in my head, and she wrote it down.
And she goes, okay, keep going.
Don't give us your whole number.
Oh, no, don't worry.
Okay.
And then I remember two more numbers popped in my head, and I couldn't decide.
I told her, you know, I can't really decide.
Well, she goes, well, give me both of those numbers.
So she wrote them down in that order, and then two more numbers popped in my head.
I said, I can't decide.
She goes, give me both.
She wrote them down in that order, and then two more numbers, and she wrote them down in that order.
Well, she hands me this piece of paper and goes, OK, give me a call tomorrow.
and the first thing i thought is are you know i thought we were really get along and now she's
getting haha
and uh...
so anyway uh... the next day you know i think you've all heard there
she was Well, actually, it was a government work number in New Mexico.
Oh, my God.
And this fellow answered the phone, and I asked for this particular girl.
I'll just give the first name Michelle.
Yes.
And the fellow goes, well, just one moment.
So then I'm thinking, at that point even still, there's lots of girls with that name.
True.
And she came on and said, hey, this is Michelle.
And I said, you remember me from the party last night?
This is Rick.
And she's like, yeah, hey, how's it going?
And actually, well, anyway.
It shows you can be psychic when the necessity level is high enough.
And I have to tell you that, you know, I kind of grew up not really being a real believer in God.
I kind of needed more proof and stuff, and this just kind of really opened the doors that there are other dimensions.
Well, it opens the doors.
You know, my problem, thank you, caller, is it opens the doors.
I firmly believe everything you've told me, Russell, about the ability of the human mind.
Unfortunately, kind of like Carl Sagan, I think.
And maybe I'm just not quiet enough, Russell, but while I understand that the functionings of our human mind are certainly something we barely know about, we barely understand probably what we're ultimately capable of if we were to pursue it, I haven't yet seen that, and I've seen quite a bit, but I haven't seen anything in that that proves to me The existence of a God.
Well, we're not proving the existence of God.
We're saying that the experience of God is available.
That the people have described from the beginning of recorded spiritual history what that experience is.
Well, yes, but one might... And it's a very scientific approach.
Okay, but one might go into the woods or a prairie or a beautiful place and observe the mountains and observe Every little beautiful aspect of the very intricate nature that's all around us, and say that they see God in that.
And in that sense, I understand if that's what you mean by that.
That would not be what we're saying.
There are a number of schools.
In Heart of the Mind, we talk about three different approaches to get to this surrendered state.
There's Centering Prayer, which the mystic Christians follow, and there's meditation Yes.
John Kabat-Zinn talks about sort of straight up meditation and the kind of Buddhist meditation
that Thich Nhat Hanh talks about.
All of these are different schools.
The Buddhists are of course thousands of years old.
The Christian meditation comes from the Gnostic Christians.
But all of these are an agreement to get rid of your story, at least for the time being.
I agree.
And get quiet, so that you have the opportunity to have the experience of experiencing something outside yourself.
The overcome with love experience that Jesus talks about is a piece that passes understanding.
And even Jews experience this in the Kabbalistic practice, where they finally agree to Burn up the story and annihilate the ego, and it's a very scientific approach, Art, that is, all of these people say, if you will get quiet, if you will learn to meditate, and you will then have certain experiences, why don't you devote a little time to this?
It's like a lab experiment.
You don't have to believe anything.
Just quiet yourself, surrender your story, look for something outside of yourself.
Yes.
And then report back what you experience.
And historically, over thousands of years, people have the opportunity to reside in love, to be overcome with love.
It's hard to believe this is beyond boyfriends and girlfriends.
No, no, it's not, Russell.
I felt it.
I felt it.
I had this, you know, I've done a million programs on out-of-body experiences, and in Paris, France.
When I was on vacation, I had one.
It was instant.
It was unwelcome.
I don't know about unwelcome.
I had no precursor.
It just flat happened.
And I was suddenly up above Paris, not particularly paying attention to it at all, in this state of ecstasy that I can't even describe it.
Words would never describe it.
And it so shocked me and surprised me that I popped right back in.
And I felt it for that moment.
I don't know that incredible thing that happened to me to be anything that is not a function of a living human mind.
Well, it is a function of a living human mind, but what you experience is an oceanic feeling of connection with one another, in which you are out of space and out of time.
Yes.
Kabir, the mystic writer, said that he had this experience for 15 seconds and devoted the rest of his life to honoring that experience.
It's not that he was enlightened in touch with God for his entire life, but he had a flash, an insight, self-reliance, a transcendent experience that changes life.
The reward for this kind of practice is not that we all become enlightened, but that we
have occasional awake experiences where we can reside in gratitude rather than in fear.
If you can move from fear to gratitude, then you are on the way to residing in love, which
is where we'd like to be, I think.
Do you believe that consciousness of any sort survives physical death?
Oh, yeah.
Now, of course, Carl Sagan knows the answer to that now.
He does now, but he can't tell us.
But he can't tell us.
The scientific evidence is really very good that something survives.
And that's principally the evidence from Ian Stevenson, a psychiatrist at the University of Virginia.
We have a five year old clamoring to be reunited with his wife and his mistress.
oftentimes report memories of previous lives that they still have. We have a five-year-old
clamoring to be reunited with his wife or his mistress or his wife and his mistress.
They go to another village and he recognizes people, shows abilities that he had in his
previous life, and quite interesting, can often identify their murderer.
And the murderers are then brought to justice and convicted based upon the circumstantial evidence that these children provide about the conditions of their death and where the implements are hidden and who killed them.
So the evidence from Stevenson's many books is very convincing to me and a lot of other people that something does survive.
But I wouldn't say a lot survives.
I would encourage you... Okay, would you go so far as to say that an experience of the sort that I described to you and that we just talked about a few moments ago is as close in this life as you will ever get to death?
Because that's what somebody told me after I described that experience to somebody.
They said that's as close as you're ever going to get to dying.
It certainly sounds like a kind of near-death experience.
Very often, as you know, in near-death experiences, people change their lives because they then had a glimpse that there is something outside themselves.
That's right, yes.
And they go on what the Buddhists call the Bodhisattva Path, where you have now had a unit of experience with God.
You have an experience with something outside your physical body, and then you devote your life to trying to relieve suffering on the planet to help other people.
Recognize that there is a different way of living.
That's why people become missionaries.
Which causes somebody like myself to wonder why only some are chosen to have this sort of Christmas future look at what could be and come back and correct their lives while others wallow forward until the very end.
Unrepentant.
I think in general you don't find that experience unless you look for it.
If you have 100% of your attention focused on the material plane, concerned with bodies, sex, stuff, then you will unquestionably spend your time in desperation, fear, resentment, depression.
You've got to spend, in my opinion, at least half your time Giving and receiving love.
And then you can move to gratitude and forgiveness.
Reside in love.
And go on to these unitive experiences.
But you have to give up the focus on the material plane.
Because you don't find happiness on the material plane.
All you find on the material plane is material.
What do you think a lot of your former colleagues would say to the last paragraphs you just laid upon us here?
Well, I worked at Lockheed for a dozen years, which is pretty straight up old-fashioned aerospace.
And I left Lockheed because I saw so much suffering and resentment there that I felt that that was not an appropriate place for me to spend any more time because I felt that people working together must find a way to be respectful of one another so that it's possible to pursue a spiritual path.
I think people in aerospace, in the computer industry, recognize that there is something beyond this material existence, because they have lives that are often meaningless, often desperate, filled with fear and resentment.
I live here in Silicon Valley and the original subtitle of our book was How to Find God in
Silicon Valley.
Is it possible to have a peaceful life surrounded by restaurants and technology?
The answer is you have to start surrendering something to get out of the material plane
to experience gratitude for incredible good fortune to be alive in America and have health
and intelligence.
And it's my experience, as I work in a technology company right now, and it's my experience
that people are aware that there is something beyond the material plane and they would like
to find meaning to their lives.
All right.
Hold it right there.
Russell Targ is my guest.
It is a very unusual opportunity for you to ask somebody of his caliber whatever you would like.
I'm Art Bell.
And this is Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 7th, 1999.
Thank you for watching. Please subscribe.
Playin' a part in a picture show?
Well, take the long way home.
Take the long way home.
Is you the joke of the neighborhood?
Or should you care if you're feelin' blue?
Well, take the long way home.
Stay for no one home There are times that you'll be a part of the scene
Be it sight, sound, smell, or touch There's something inside that we need so much
The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sound, or the strength of an oak when it roots deep in the ground.
The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing
That all these things in our memories are And they used them to cast a spell
Fly, fly like a soar Take this place, on this trip
Just for a day Fly, take a free ride
Take the place, of our scenes It's for free
Fly for the pointless, painful years Swim for heartaches, do it for fears
Have to waste my life, for a day But by now, I know, I should cry
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time On Premier Radio Networks
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 7th, 1999.
So, Carl Sagan could never quiet down enough to understand and feel God.
That's really interesting.
My guest is Russell Tarr.
And he's a really interesting person, there's no question about that.
A couple of questions are gonna probably bounce like...
$10,000 rubber checks here in a moment, but we'll try.
Now we take you back to the night of September 7th, 1999, on Arkbell's Somewhere in Time.
Oh, and we're back.
Okay, back to Russell Targ in your calls.
We're going to lay heavily into the lines here, but two quick faxed questions, one from Art in Lakeland, Florida, listening to WFLA, who asks, if you, Russell, or any remote viewer can predict the market, then why are you not as rich as Bill Gates or, says Art, are you?
Bill Gates is in a class by himself, the richest man on the planet.
But what remote viewers tend to find is that there's a lore that says God won't let you use your psychic abilities to enrich yourself.
I've heard that.
You've heard that?
Yes, I've heard it.
That's not true.
It's not true.
You can use psychic abilities to make money, but the surprising thing that happens is that as you get increasingly in touch With your psychic abilities, and your internal processes, and something outside yourself, and you begin to live with expanded awareness, using this ability to enrich yourself no longer seems like an interesting thing to do.
I.e.
materialism means less to you as you become more spiritual.
That's exactly what happens.
It's not bad.
Jane and I sat around forecasting solar futures for Nine weeks in preparation of Heart of the Mind and we were not investing.
This was for science with two referees watching us.
At the end of that time we said, we really have done very well.
We've got 11 out of 12 hits here.
We described how to do that in the book.
But that's just not what we want.
That did not feel to us like the right thing we wanted to do.
Yeah, that's frankly the answer that I did expect and that I've heard from others.
So it's consistent.
And let me tell you, I have no averse to making money.
And that was a surprise for us that having figured out if we do everything right, this remote viewing into the future really does work.
Having done that, it no longer seemed like what we wanted to spend our time doing.
I once watched an interview with Ted Turner.
You know who owns Turner Broadcasting?
Baseball teams and is married to Jane Fonda and CNN and all that stuff, right?
Probably one of the richest guys in America.
And I think it was pinnacle.
It may have been a CNN interview.
Anyway, they asked him what it's like to have all of that.
And he paused and he was quiet for a moment.
And he said, frankly, it's kind of an empty bag.
I'm sure that many people feel that way.
Really shocked me.
Yeah, I'm sure they are, too.
In other words, they are one of the few who has followed the economic rainbow to the pot at the end, and they've got the pot, and now they're saying, hmm, what else is there?
I must tell you that one of the most depressed suicidal people that I ever met was also the richest, a phenomenally rich person, and what he said in manifesting this All right, listen, I don't want to hog you too much.
I've got one more here, and I know you're not going to answer this, but I'll ask anyway.
Since Russell talked about lasers, please ask Russell outright for me, can the U.S.
knock down all Russian ICBMs in the lift We'd like to be able to do that and I would say there's a difference of opinion as to whether or not you can do that.
It's a hot topic and I will not offer my opinion here but suffice to say some people think you can do that.
Some people think that it's not going to work and can be countered And I would say that's outside of what we're talking about.
And I'd say also that none of us want to find out.
That's right.
All right.
Here we go.
First time caller on the line.
You're on the air with Russell Targ.
Hi.
Hi.
I'm Dave from San Diego.
Hello, Dave.
I've got a question for Russell.
All right.
They say that when people are lost in an underground cavern with no light or sound as input, the brain begins to rewire itself, starting to look for more input.
Which eventually then obviously drives them insane.
Could this be related?
Hold on, what was that, Russell?
I was just saying that experiments were done in the 80s with so-called sensory deprivation chambers.
Right.
And people's little brains don't like to be starved for stimulus.
Right.
Yes, but what he did say was interesting, and that was that these people would begin to develop of ways of retaining their sanity, kind of like the pilots at the Hanoi Hilton did.
Playing little mind games and all the rest of it and developing this and that within the mind to remain sane.
What I'm wondering is that, is it linked possibly to psychic abilities?
You had said something earlier about people are not quiet enough to notice their psychic abilities.
Well, one of the interesting things is that the worst punishment that a jailer can do is put you into solitary confinement.
Because your mind is clamoring for stimulation.
On the other hand, in Northern California, people will pay thousands of dollars to be in an unstimulated environment.
They call it a silent retreat.
And it depends what you're expecting and what you're prepared to deal with.
If you're a meditator and you're thrown into solitary confinement, that's an opportunity for spiritual growth to deal with something beyond yourself, because you have some tools to deal with your chattering mind.
So then a meditator would likely remain sane while the possibility of somebody else in that environment for too protracted a period of time would be to lose touch with reality?
That would be my guess.
Wow.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Russell Tarrant.
Hi.
Oh, hello.
Thank you, Art, for taking my call.
Jessica from La Crosse, Wisconsin.
Yes, Jessica.
Yes, Mr. Targ.
Nice meeting you.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
At the beginning of the program, you were speaking of psychic dreaming.
I'd like to know if there's something wrong with me.
Since the age of four, this is when I'm asleep, I dream three dreams in a row, be it negative or positive.
They do come true.
And also, could this be sort of a remote viewing?
And if I could stay on the line, because my radio is fading in and out.
My Beijing is on the way, by the way.
All right.
You may stay on the line, indeed, and listen.
Russell?
I think these psychic dreams are precognitive.
They do give you information from the future, because when you're dreaming, you have really surrendered control over your mental processes.
You're open to outside.
Simulation to outside signals that come in to outside connections.
So in your dreams you're able to experience being connected with things in the distance and things in the future and precognitive dreams are the most common kind of psychic phenomena that people experience in their lives where you have a dream of something of unusual clarity or unusual bizarreness You can learn to recognize those dreams that are brought to you by the future and those dreams that are anxiety or wish fulfillment.
For example, if you dream about failing an examination that's coming up and you haven't studied for it, that would not be precognition.
It would be just the anxiety you feel about taking an exam you haven't studied for.
Yes.
But if you dream about something really remarkable and surprising and then that occurs the next day, We would say that it's a precognitive dream, where the future affected you at an earlier time.
Now, where does intuition fit into all this, for example?
So, intuition is partly psychic ability, partly glimpsing the future, and partly the sum total of everything you've learned in your subconscious processes and have forgotten.
So, it's a mixture of psychic abilities and subconscious processes.
There have been a few times in my life that I've ignored strong intuitive feelings about what I should do, and inevitably it has worked out very poorly when I ignored the inner voice.
Well, we're investigating inner voices, and in fact right now we're looking for identical twins, especially twins who would like to communicate with each other psychically.
so if there are any twins listening who would like to take part in ESP experiments
where they can get in touch with their psychic abilities I'd like them to send an email to me, russell
at espresearch.com that's russell, r-u-s-s-e-l-l at
espresearch.com and we're looking for identical twins
who would like to work with each other to explore psychic abilities
now what's your what's your theory
Is it the genetic connection?
The close identical genetic connection that has you going down this path?
Well, there are a couple of things.
One is the tremendous amount of stories of identical twins having shared dreams, for example, where they will come down for breakfast and want to tell their father about the dream that they had together that night.
Or twins that are reared apart and then meet for the first time wearing the same clothes, the same number of rings, the same dress, the same occupation.
So the evidence is really quite good that there is some kind of retained connection between the twins.
Now, the model that's far-fetched, but certainly comes to mind, is from modern physics, where you've probably heard that we live in a non-local universe, that everything is connected to everything else, just as the mystics said thousands of years ago.
But in particular, the experiments that are interesting, the hot new field in modern physics, is these experiments in quantum interconnectedness, where Electrons or photons are particles that are created
together.
Twin particles are then separated.
Yet the particles which are now separated from each other, if you do something to one of the particles, the other one
knows it, even though they're traveling away from each other at the
speed of light.
So Einstein first talked about this and called it a spooky telepathic connection
and didn't think it would occur.
He actually said spooky? Yes.
And this is now seen in the laboratory.
He used the word telepathic as well, facetiously, of course.
But we now see in the physical laboratory that these twin particles remain connected after they're separated.
So identical twins are genetically the same.
They have the same DNA, same atoms and molecules.
Yes.
And it may be, by analogy, or maybe even more than analogy, that these warm meat and potatoes people who are separated still retain the original single state connection and might with a little help develop really excellent psychic abilities under their control.
The gift that the remote viewers get that they take away from my laboratory is they actually get to incorporate psychic abilities in their lives.
Do you know if there has been any genetic discovery regarding any difference in genetic structure with regard to twins and non-twins?
No, I think any kind of person can wind up being a twin.
It just depends on whether the egg is divided in the early stages of fertilization.
You can get twins of every conceivable description.
But the identical twins do appear to have a psychic connection with each other, and we would like to explore that.
The payoff for us is that we can begin to determine what are the variables that affect ESP.
The payoff for the twins is that they can get in touch with the part of themselves that's psychic, which people seem to like very much and incorporate into their lives.
Do you wonder, Russell, when they've unraveled the entire human genome, which they're well on the way to doing?
Well, it appears that everybody has psychic abilities to some extent.
We have not found where that resides yet.
place they can identify, you know, who knows, chromosome number such and such at the end of some gene,
that is responsible for psychic ability.
Well, it appears that everybody has psychic abilities to some extent. We have not found where that resides yet.
We think the explanation is probably something we don't understand about the space-time in which we live,
that we are actually connected to one another rather than a psychic signal that is sent from you to me.
7.
What the mystics have said, what the real psychics have said, is that the reason you're able to describe what's off in the distance is that it's not actually distant.
It's not that we misunderstand the waves, But rather, we misunderstand what we mean by distance.
Listen, I am going to force you to plug a book.
You've not done it, and so you ought to do it, but what is your current book?
The current book is The Heart of the Mind, How to Experience God Without Belief.
It tells you how to get in touch with your psychic abilities, why you would want to do that, and how to incorporate psychic abilities into your life.
And the book is called Heart of the Mind and it's based on the ESP research that we did at Stanford Research Institute for more than a decade.
Is it a teaching book?
The Heart of the Mind tells you how to expand your awareness and incorporate psychic abilities into your life.
Our first book, Miracles of Mind, which is on paperback now, is more of a teaching book that gives step-by-step instructions on how to develop psychic abilities.
So you could say Miracles of Mind, which deals with the CIA psychic spying, tells you that there's energy available you can incorporate in your life, you can control it.
The new book Heart of the Mind explains why you would want to bother doing such a thing and what to do with it to enrich your life.
Russell, are there any dangers In doing any of these things, any dangers?
I was asked that, I'm most curious, and I always get very differing answers.
Well, one of the dangers is that after people start developing psychic abilities, they get the idea that they're very special.
And that's why you tend to get a big ego, and of course, then your ESP goes away.
But people who develop psychic abilities often Get overcome with the idea that they are really special.
They're God's gift to something.
And I think that that's the danger.
It's no harm to your mental or physical health.
You just become obnoxious if you get carried away with your psychic abilities.
And one would then project you begin to lose them as well, or the interference level rises.
That's what I believe, because in order to I would like to understand how that surrender is accomplished.
Are you capable of explaining that?
and recognition they were connected to one another
and these abilities are shared with all your brothers and sisters
i would like to understand how that surrender is accomplished
capable of explaining that and now i have a listen uh...
let me tell you we're coming to the top of the hour and i was asked all guests at
this hour of the one more hour of radio time
You're welcome to it.
Or if you're tired, you're welcome to go to bed.
It's purely up to you.
I'm happy to talk to you.
The answer to your question is the way you surrender is to make the decision to change your mind, to move from fear to gratitude.
The way of changing your life by changing your mind.
Changing your life by changing your mind.
You don't have to do anything.
Okay, we'll follow up on that when we get back in those markets where we do.
Russell Targ is my guest.
His book, you might want to check out, Heart of the Mind, available, of course, at Amazon.com through our website at www.artbell.com, where also, by the way, you can get involved in SETI at Home.
You can join the largest team, SETI at Home team in the world, Team Art Bell.
And we'd love to have you do that.
You'll get the wildest program you've ever seen in your life.
And also, I understand, where on the rogue market, the vowels are beginning to move again, quickly.
So you might want to get in on the rogue market.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 7th, 1999.
After the first round of the tournament, the team was able to win the first match of the season.
The team was able to win the first match of the season.
And I still can hear him say, oh talk to me so you can see what's going on. Say it with me.
You're listening to Art Bells, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 7th, 1999.
My guest is Russell Tarr.
He's a physicist.
He developed lasers.
And now he's way beyond.
And he's dealing with what's up here.
And it is up there for everybody.
I'm just sort of curious about whether The modern rush of noise is actually driving it away for the masses.
Or whether we're moving toward it.
I guess it depends on the day that you consider it, what the headlines are that day.
How you feel about that, huh?
Anyway, we'll get back to him in a moment.
and stay right where you are.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 7th, 1999.
Well, here's something I wonder about, and maybe you will too.
In my earlier life, Russell, I was about as psychic as a brick.
And I spent a lot of time chasing women and radios and hobbies and stuff and stuff, you know, stuff.
Earthly stuff.
And it's kind of funny because I never had any psychic experiences when I was young and as I grew older and I began to do the program I'm doing now Dealing with people like you, Russell, all the time.
Things began to happen to me.
And that almost suggests to me that the consideration of what you and I are talking about right now, even the mere consideration of it and contemplation of it, makes it more likely.
What do you think?
People become open to having psychic experiences after they start reading about it.
There's no doubt about it.
Just as though people, if you want to have a richer dream life, people say I have no dreams, just start reading Jung.
Read his Dreams, Memories, and Reflections.
And away you go.
People immediately start remembering their dreams and having a whole rich exciting dream life.
Yup, that's a good answer to the question.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Russell Targ.
Hi.
Hi.
Where are you dear?
Well, I'm in Atlanta.
Atlanta, Georgia.
Yes.
Okay, my question is concerning natural psychics.
They have the ability to help solve crimes and locate people.
They should do it.
With remote viewing, can you do the same thing?
Remote viewing is just another more controlled form of natural psychic ability.
There are some wonderful psychics who do help the police.
And remote viewing is just a catch-all that includes Precognition of the future events, a buoyant connection with the event as it is, and a mind-to-mind connection with people who know the answer.
Remote viewing is a combination that we helped put together in our experiments to give us the greatest likelihood of success in an attempt to understand the phenomena.
So the answer to the question is yes?
Yes.
Okay, and the other thing is, you know, if you remote view these things, And could it be dangerous to your psyche taking in some of these negative views?
Yes, a very, very good follow-on.
I think probably it would be dangerous in the same way if you spend the whole day watching news television where you fill your day with bombings and airplane crashes and accidents.
That's hazardous to your health and so is spending your day psychically viewing murders and kidnappings.
You don't want to fill your mind space with violent activities.
Well then, that's exactly right.
I've talked, I think, to most of the remote viewers that can be talked to.
I've never had the experience of speaking with Ingo Swann personally, though I would love to do that.
Perhaps you could arrange that for me, Russell.
But almost every single one of them has said that They did a lot of missing child type work and police type work and didn't like it.
After a while, just wanted to turn away from it and do other things just because it was so gruesome.
Hella Hammett, who is one of our great psychics, a very sensitive, beautiful person, was called on to help solve a murder and she just didn't want to do it.
She just called me up and said, You're in the middle of this case.
Can you help Russell?
And I, in fact, just talking to her, visualized the scene and saw a very usual thing.
I saw somebody that appeared to be taking his hair off.
I saw a guy just suddenly remove all of his hair.
And of course, I realized that he had totally pulled off a wig.
So I just said, that's what I get.
This looks like a crime.
Committed by a bald guy wearing a full wig.
And as things revolved, that turned out to be the right answer.
This is really... I just tuned in on the thing that Hella was looking at.
And I got another piece of information between us.
We were helpful.
So, in other words, she almost acted as your control.
Yes.
She certainly did.
Wow.
All right.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Russell Torg.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
Hello.
Are you calling from Redding, California?
Redding.
Yes, ma'am.
Hi Russell, I have a comment and a question for you if possible.
I have a comment and a question for you if possible.
I became aware of my psychic abilities at the age of 14 and I am 33 now.
I consider them to be gifts.
For the last five or six years I've been using these abilities to give readings over the phone or in my home or in other people's homes in a positive way.
The most positive way I can do this.
My question to you is, without sounding too selfish, how is it that I can help other people 80 to 90 percent accuracy, but when it comes to trying to channel myself in that positive sense, I cannot do that.
Well, our reason would be the same reason that a healer has a hard time healing herself.
Yes, this is very true.
You're all wrapped up with too much information.
With the diagnosis, for example, or the advice, If it's yourself, you're wrapped up with too much information in my opinion, or in the case of a healer, the healer who is herself ill is then out of balance herself, so is not able to be coherent with the world outside herself to bring in healing for herself.
Healing is a kind of balancing activity that the healer does.
If you're out of balance to start with yourself, it's hard to do.
But in the case of giving yourself information, you're then overloaded with all your guesses and surmises and problems that just create mental noise.
You know too much.
Okay.
That's still unfair in a way.
The gift of healing, I have that as well.
I absolutely agree with you.
And as far as the lottery or anything like that, I try not to even suggest to other people, you know, pick this number, pick that number, pick that number, or even myself.
The lottery would be a very, very difficult thing to do psychically because it's an analytical task.
Getting numbers and alphabets is very much harder than describing geography and illnesses.
Alright, well, so, in other words, the phrase, remote viewer, heal thyself, doesn't get bounced around a lot.
That's right.
Okay.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Russell Tard.
Good morning.
Hello, Art.
Hello.
This is D.A.
Conner from Eugene, Oregon.
Yes, sir.
Yes, dude.
Are we able to talk about things on tonight's topic?
No.
No?
Not when I have a guest here, sir.
Oh.
If you have a question for Russell Tard, you're welcome to ask it.
Oh, a question for Russell Tard.
Uh, I'm afraid I don't have a question for him.
Alright, well then we'll move on.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Russell Tard.
Hi.
Yeah, hello Art.
Hi.
This is Alan from Elko.
Hi Alan.
Hey, I was wanting to ask Russell with Major Danes if, how he compares with his predictions of the future.
Do you do the same thing on remote viewing or what?
Would you rephrase that question, please?
You know, Dr. or Major Ed Daines has the predictions about what's going to happen with stuff.
I was just wondering how Russell's compared to that.
In other words, whether he's looked at similar things?
Yeah.
Well, I'm of course a facilitator and not a psychic.
My concern with Ed Daines is that his sci-tech operation, the people I've talked to say they're 100% accurate.
But I've never seen any data from them about their psychic predictions at all.
And in my experience, even with the very best remote viewers that we know of, we don't have anything like 100% accuracy.
If we had 100% accuracy, then by now we'd have figured out how this all works.
We tend to get two-thirds of the time we can match up what a person says, and only about a quarter of the time Do we have the photographic accuracy that makes remote viewing so exciting?
When you use a team of remote viewers, independently working on the same thing, and you come up with a similar result in a very high percentage of those that you're tasking, does the percentage or accuracy rise?
Well, you would wish that it would rise.
Well, I'm wondering.
But it often doesn't.
In our silver forecasting experiments, we always used different target pairs for different people, because when you use the same target, if you ask a whole bunch of people, for example, what's the picture in the envelope, they may agree or they may describe altogether some other picture.
So you might get the most powerful psychic pulling the whole group To erroneously describe something that's an error.
So it is not always so successful to have a group of people all working on the same target.
But that would seem then not to be remote viewing at all, but... A mind-to-mind connection.
Absolutely.
Well, that would be... that's right.
Interesting all by itself.
Yeah.
It was not successful to have a whole gang of people working on a single project.
You could have a group of people each working on a piece of the project.
But that would or would not improve the overall accuracy?
That would be helpful.
In the work that Stephen Schwartz did with the Mobius Society doing psychic archaeology, he would get different pieces from different people and that was often very helpful.
Gotcha.
Ease for the Rockies, you're on the air with Russell Tarr.
Good morning.
Hi, this is Julie in Virginia.
Hello, Julie.
Hi.
I have a question and a comment about the meditation.
All right.
When you were talking about the different kinds of meditation, the Buddhist and the Christian and on and on, I was holding in my hand a book called Jewish Meditation, which I was really surprised about, kind of a coincidence.
But I was wondering, when you talk about You have to put the ego aside and you just make a decision to do that.
It's a little harder than just making a decision.
Yeah, I mean how do you do that as often?
I mean when you catch yourself you can do that but how do you practice this as much as you possibly can?
My ego gets in the way and I've learned that you can't shove it out of the way.
You have to kind of gently move it to the side and refocus.
Is that what you would recommend doing, or how do you keep your ego from getting in the way?
It really goes to my question before the top of the hour, which is exactly how do you sublimate your ego?
It's one thing to say, and it's quite another to do.
Well, there's two steps.
The immediate answer is a path that we think of as self-inquiry that's been taught for thousands of years.
Well, just leave it at that.
It's a path that says, Who am I?
What's at my core?
And then you go on to say, Who wants to know?
And it's a path of introspection, looking inside, that requires some discipline.
but uh... certainly all of the all the path it's the it's the not the christian of the couple of picked
you wish or the
buddhist meditative path all of these have
tell you that what you're looking for will be found inside many times to the
same destination really that's right and the not first step the way you start
is really the difference that i was talking about before
uh... the difference between self-improvement self-realization the whole theme of our book
that that we've been talking about the heart of the mind which is about
self-realization transcendence where the first book is about remote viewing
and gaining power Bye.
But the steps that you take is a step from fear and resentment, where we often reside, and to wake up in the morning in gratitude.
It's like taking the first step and you ask, how do you do that surrender?
You wake up in the morning and put your little paws on top of the coverlet.
And you can either fall into your ordinary path of fear and depression, or you can wake up and say, Thank you, Universe, for my intelligence, that I live in America, that I'm alive and healthy, that I woke up at all.
So if you can wake up in gratitude, recognizing that your great good fortune is not something that you did at all, but was given to you, It sure does.
what the Christians call grace. It's an unasked for, undeserved gift from God or from the
universe. If you could just wake up in the morning in gratitude, that's a first step
toward recognizing that you've been given gifts that are outside of anything that your
little ego did by itself. Does that make sense?
It sure does. Whether or not I could do that, I don't know.
Honestly, I don't know.
Just wake up, open your eyes, and the first word you say is, thank you.
It's not so hard.
No, but you have to mean it.
That's the hard part.
Alright, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Russell Targ.
Hi.
Hello, this is Mike calling from Sacramento.
Hi, Mike.
Hi, I have a question for Russell.
Whenever, when he's been talking about the spiritual principles and precepts, I was just wondering, Russell, have you ever read Chapter 5 in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous?
I have not.
I'm familiar with the book, of course, but I have not read the AA book.
But I'm aware that a lot of these teachings are similar.
They're identical.
And it almost seems like they're taken verbatim out of that book.
And I'm not trying to suggest anything other than the fact that It would probably be appropriate, if they are, to give credit to the author who actually wrote them.
Well, either that or you have to imagine, since these techniques have been available for so long, that that author might want to give credit to the ancients.
Well, my vocabulary comes from Vedanta readings and from Course in Miracles.
Well, Course in Miracles, yeah, I'm also familiar with those teachings.
But I have not read the material in my hands at all.
One can imagine the process is the same in conquering.
It is, and it's probably coincidence, and you're probably right, Art, but if the catchphrases are almost identical, I just wanted to... Which of the phrases are you talking about?
Well, you mentioned the steps, the fear and resentment, the path to gratitude, There were several.
I haven't written them down.
It's kind of late at night, but I just thought I'd ask if you'd read that chapter.
Oh, I don't find that surprising at all.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, thanks a lot.
I really appreciate this show.
It's been great.
Okay, sir.
Thank you.
Sure.
First time caller on the line.
You're on the air without a lot of time.
Russell Targ here.
Hi.
Hi.
This is Jim in Portland listening to KEX.
Sublime intersection of spirituality and science.
You were talking about Carl Sagan earlier and something hit me.
you know when people are trying to receive something or uh...
i mean uh...
the message you know the re remote viewer it's it's it's almost like you're better off with that
little passive crystal
radio set that doesn't plug into anything rather than the uh...
high-powered uh... radio set that
plugged into something i mean except you're talking about the human
brain or the human this is going to take a little longer than we have
Can you hold through the break?
Yeah, absolutely.
Alright, stand by.
Stay right there.
Russell Targ, hold on.
It seems to me that he is saying that it's all about love.
Right?
So I thought this would do.
I'm Marcel.
Hang in there, we'll be right back.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 7th, 1999.
...you must send her somewhere where she's never been before.
Worn out phrases and worn in gazes won't get you where you want to go.
No!
Words of love, soft and tender, won't win her.
You ought to know by now.
You ought to know by now.
Words of love, soft and tender, won't win her.
anymore.
I'm going to be doing a lot of work on this. So, I'm going to be doing a lot of work on
this. So, I'm going to be doing a lot of work on this. So, I'm going to be doing a lot of
work on this. So, I'm going to be doing a lot of work on this. So, I'm going to be doing
a lot of work on this. So, I'm going to be doing a lot of work on this. So, I'm going
to be doing a lot of work on this.
So, I'm going to be doing a lot of work on this. So, I'm going to be doing a lot of work
on this.
So, I'm going to be doing a lot of work on this. So, I'm going to be doing a lot of work
on this.
So, I'm going to be doing a lot of work on this. So, I'm going to be doing a lot of
work on this.
So, I'm going to be doing a lot of work on this. So, I'm going to be doing a lot of work
on this.
So, I'm going to be doing a lot of work on this.
in time.
Tonight's program originally aired September 7th, 1999.
Welcome to the program, those of you who join at this hour.
Anything is possible tonight, anything at all.
Who knows?
But then again, that's kind of the way I like it.
**SPLASH** **THUNDER**
Now we take you back to the night of September 7th, 1999, on Ark Bells Somewhere in Time.
All right, back now to my guest, what a night this has been.
Russell, you're back on the air again, and here's that caller who was on the air with you.
Caller?
Oh yeah, Jim in Portland.
Yes, Jim.
I guess my question was comparing the remote reviewer receiver to like a radio receiver.
And radio, I guess there's an inherent energy in the wave, and he used to have these little crystal sets.
Didn't run on any batteries or electrical power, and it could pick up the signal.
And I remember him talking about Carl Sagan.
Not quiet enough, you know, and I think with a high-powered intellect, maybe it If the simple crystal set works better than the high-powered electronic radio set, you know?
I'm groping for an analogy, but I was wondering if you thought that was onto something.
Well, it depends what you're looking for.
If Sagan is out there trying to understand the workings of the cosmos, his powerful intellect is just the right way to do it.
If he's trying to experience something that's ephemeral, trying to become One with the universe, or to fill his life with love, that does not require a lot of intellect.
It requires some surrender of control in order to experience what's out there and what's available.
Love is a place to reside, a way to fill your life, rather than something to do.
The love that the mystics talk about, that fills your life, that overwhelms your being, uh... not love of boyfriend or girlfriend or love of an
object it's the experience of indwelling love
that's available it's the love that jesus talked about as the peace that
passes understanding and interestingly mystics of every religious persuasion
have described it in similar terms
hey rick could you give your um...
telephone number for um...
how to get tapes glad to it is one.
Be glad to.
It is 1-800-917-4278 of any program we do here.
1-800-917-4278.
And we describe the whole story in our new book, The Heart of the Mind.
Which is, I take it available, I said Amazon.com, it should be there, right?
Yes.
They can go to my website for that.
And generally, is it now in bookstores, or what's going on?
Bookstores.
Our subtitle is, How to Experience God Without Belief.
It's the experience that's available without having to surrender your discerning mind.
You don't have to believe anything to reside in this sphere that the mystics have talked about.
You just have to agree to be quiet.
Is there a passage like that in the Bible?
I wouldn't be surprised.
Yeah, I believe there is, about to be quiet to know.
But it really is easier said than done.
And I know it's pretty easy to sit here and talk about the surrendering of the ego, and a lot harder to actually do.
And it's kind of like I joked earlier, you said you got to wake up and say something like, well, thank you, or I'm glad to be alive, or isn't it A great day or whatever to start you out in a positive way, but that's a lot harder to do than it is to say.
I think as you get quiet and pursue self-inquiry, what you notice is that there is more to a person than the story, than how they were brought up or what they do for a living.
For example, when you stop doing for a living what you do, Okay.
Wild Card Line, you're on here with Russell Targ.
I say, one day I'll quit being a physicist.
I don't drop out of existence.
I hope that there's something left.
And you want to find out what's at that core, what's inside, what is that consciousness
that remains.
And that's called self-inquiry.
That's the oldest spiritual discipline in the book.
Okay.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Russell Tarrick.
Hi.
Hi.
This is Kirk in Cross Village, Michigan.
Yes, sir.
I'm going to come in on another angle, and if Professor Targuy, first I want to thank you for making yourself available in this way.
I am very interested and have good reason to give credibility to the Native American ability to, in many tribes, to apparently project personality out of the body and then appear to others for
good or ill purposes in an animal form. Have you had any experience or any thoughts on that
kind of thing?
I have no experience with that. In the yogi tradition, that is a frequent occurrence.
Now just to tell a story, the greatest proponent of Vedanta in our time was a yogi named Kriya
and he was a worker, a geologist, and he was meditating and meditating and he was in a
participating.
And then a man appeared to him, came to his house, and said, there's a great teacher up in the mountains.
The man you're looking for is up in the mountains.
And the visitor was so persuasive that Quinja set aside his geology and went up to this mountain, climbed the mountain, and got to that place.
In Arunachala, and who's sitting there was the guy who just came to his house.
He said, what a faker you are.
You came down to trick me.
And everybody attested that this man had not left the place he was sitting for 20 years.
But he had projected himself, the story goes, to the home of this devotee who was ready to be awakened.
So I think that that's the kind of projection you're describing.
That's a frequent feature in the yogi literature.
Do you believe that Jesus was in fact an entity that walked the earth as described in the Bible?
I believe that.
I believe that Jesus was one of the realized masters like Buddha and some of the other Hindu masters that we know about, people who walked with God, whose everyday I believe that he was a teacher, and a mystic, and a rabbi, and all of those things.
There were very specific miracles associated with his presence on earth.
And I wonder, do you think, just conjecture, That if scientists had an opportunity to examine the DNA of Jesus, they would find a difference.
I have no way of knowing that.
If I had to guess, I would say probably not.
I believe that Jesus and Buddha and Shankara and some of the others were human beings who were just... Some of the more recent Hindu masters are human beings who are self-realized.
Ramana Maharshi is the one I was going to name, who's really an Einstein of spirituality.
He died in the 50's and he's described as the Einstein of spirituality because he wants you to believe nothing.
He describes simply the geometry of consciousness, how it works, what you experience, and how to reside in love and become realized without any belief at all.
Scientific process.
Try this and report back what you experience.
I'm probably not segue into this name, but I'll take the chance and do it anyway.
James Randi.
I've heard of Mr. Randi.
I'm sure you have.
Mr. Randi is a debunker.
Mr. Randi is the opposite of the spiritual that we've been discussing.
The precise opposite.
Does he get What he thinks, in other words, as somebody who is quiet and listens and becomes spiritual realizes it.
Does somebody like James Randi get the exact opposite?
Well, I've agreed to do demonstrations for Randi.
He wants to see something psychic and he'll pay a million dollars.
That's right.
But what he wants to see is 100% reliability and I can't do that.
I can do Uh, 65% reliability or 70% reliability, which is, of course, quite miraculous, William.
Of course.
70% of what you're describing is accurate.
So if Randy's belief is that if psychic functioning is not 100% accurate, that there's no psychic functioning, then by his definition, he's right.
If he wants me to read the serial number on the dollar bill in his wallet, otherwise there's no ESP, Well, by that definition, there's no ESP, but if you relax the requirements, there's really quite remarkable psychic functioning.
Well, have you never had that conversation with him?
In other words, scientifically, 65-70% should be absolutely convincing.
He doesn't believe in statistics.
I mean, he doesn't want to lose his money.
That's probably closer to the truth than the latter.
We have now published many papers in the most prestigious journal in the world showing that psychic functioning with experienced viewers tends to run two-thirds of the time we get the right answer.
And Randy doesn't want to lose his million dollars.
He wants it 100% or nothing.
So we have nothing very much to say to each other.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Russell Tardt.
Hi.
Hi.
All my life I've been trying to combine the spiritual and the scientific, and I'm at a point now where I call myself a techno-shaman.
I think maybe much like Mr. Tardt.
And I will sit back and clear my mind and just let knowledge come to me, but I can do it with a goal in mind.
And one of the things that came to me this way was that we could turn the sun itself into a laser to eliminate asteroid threats and various other things like that.
Because it's, you know, it's a bunch of excited gas, much like in a helium neon laser.
Well, we can't do it yet.
I was just wondering, you know, he seems like the perfect man to ask about that.
Edgar Cayce.
He predicted that a long time ago.
He described a kind of sun-pumped laser before there were any lasers at all, which we all thought was quite remarkable.
When the first sun-pumped laser, he envisioned the sun coming into a crystal and a beam of pure light coming out the other end, which indeed has now been done.
But that's very indirect.
I mean, why not just use the laser I mean the sun itself as the lasing medium.
Because the sun is incoherent.
The, a laser, remarkable property of the laser is that the light does not diverge.
It can bring all of the energy to bear upon something.
The sun is homogeneously spread all over the universe.
Oh, I understand that.
Um, I just mean, you know, like if you had two mirrors set up in orbit around the sun so that the line of sight between them grazed the surface of the sun?
Seems like you might be able to set up a thing.
The short answer to that is that the sun is so hot that the light in the sun is not coherent.
In order to get a laser beam out of a hot gas, you need coherent energy inside.
And the sun is just so hot that it's incoherent.
Okay.
All right.
There you are.
Otherwise, interesting thinking.
Well, to the Rockies, you're on the air with Russell Tarrant.
Hi.
Hi.
The Vedic tradition talks about intelligent life forms on other planets, galaxies, and dimensions.
Have you or anyone you know done any reliable work with regards to remote viewing as to intelligent life forms?
On other planets, galaxies, or dimensions, and their interreaction with humanity and Earth.
I have not found any intelligent life on other planets, though Ingo Swann did describe magnetic fields around the planet Jupiter, together with rings around Jupiter, which at the time he described it was entirely unknown.
And it was not confirmed until a year later with a Pioneer flyby.
So Ingo was able to cast, to focus his attention off the planet, but we didn't find any intelligent life.
So he did show you can do remote viewing over interplanetary distances.
Are remote viewers ever aware of the presence of other remote viewers?
I understand what you're asking.
I think sometimes they are hella ham, but I was very sensitive to other people's attention, and Jane Catcher is a powerful healer who has made her presence known to me when she was thinking about me.
In fact, there's a kind of continuum of remote viewing.
From the mild-mannered remote viewing that we do in the laboratory where you visualize something on your mental television screen, as it were, to the out-of-body experience where you bring your emotionality, sensitivity, sexuality to interact with somebody at a distant place.
And in that case, the person at the distant place is definitely aware that you're present.
So we bring the sex on the astral plane to the last few minutes of the show, but that kind of distant interaction has been widely written about.
That's really interesting.
In the years that the CIA was involved with the remote viewing program, was there ever an awareness of others on the other side?
For example, the Russian remote viewers?
No, we had no There was a Russian remote-viewing activity that we know about.
I visited them in the 80s, but we had no awareness of their activities that I know anything about.
Okay.
Well, I think we can squeeze one more in.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Russell Tarrick.
Hi.
Hi, good morning.
This is Dan in Virginia.
Hello, Dan.
It's interesting you talking about the Russian program, because I had a chance to study with Vladimir Maximoff.
I was director at the Center for Holistic Medicine in the Siberian branch of the Russian
Academy of Sciences.
He lives in New York now and he taught me and a lot of others some interesting techniques
where you can use your hands to create a holographic image of whatever you want to view.
And then you get the information through your hands and you take the mind out of the process.
So the mind is, you know, you get impressions in the mind.
No, I know that in the Soviet Academy of Sciences, in Akademgorodov, in Soviet Siberia, they were interested in sending bacterial infections from one place to another by sending light through one infected cell to infect a distant cell.
So the distant transmission of Yeah.
Gee, there's a great goal.
Isn't there?
I don't know about the...
Gee, there's a great goal.
Yeah, right.
Also, I learned how to put healing energy on videotape, and you can actually hold up
your hands and feel the energy come off the TV set.
I learned that a powerful healer or a powerful transmitting teacher on videotape can have
profound effects on somebody who's watching the tape.
Sometimes with a powerful teacher you get a skeptic who's caught unaware and melted down just by the love that's in the image.
I have seen that very thing.
I've experienced that fact.
That's really remarkable.
I understand there's some experimentation going on now in which it's actually possible To send a photograph of yourself sitting in front of your monitor.
In other words, your monitor can act as a camera.
It's a really bizarre new thing.
You've got to connect the camera to it.
Something like that.
Really weird.
Listen, it has been a total pleasure to have you on, Russell.
Thank you very much.
And I hope everybody goes out and buys Heart of the Mind.
And I can assure you, after hearing this, a lot of people are going to.
Thank you very much.
It was a pleasure talking with you tonight.
Let's do it again sometime.
I'd like that.
Take care, Russell.
Bye-bye.
There you have it, folks.
That's Russell Tartt.
I'm Art Bell.
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