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Aug. 26, 1999 - Art Bell

02:01:53

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Philip Hoag - Doomsday

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36:28

philip hoag

01:11:05

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		We're about to go to Philip Hogue.
		Philip Hoag has written a book called No Such Thing as Doomsday.
		Subtitle, I guess, ought to be How to Prepare for Y2K: Earth Changes, War, Terrorism, and Other Threats.
		Doomsday, perhaps not, but some problems and bumps in the road ahead?
		Oh, yes.
		We'll talk to Philip Hogue about that.
		And I'll tell you more about him in a moment.
		All right.
		Now comes...
		Now comes Philip Hoag.
		He is the author of the recently published book, No Such Thing as Doomsday.
		How to Prepare for Y2K, Earth Changes, War, Terrorism, and Other Threats.
		Now, Philip's message is not doom and gloom, but rather practical, experienced how-to information.
		His book, No Such Thing as Doomsday, shows people how to turn their concern into constructive action.
		Some people worry, others prepare.
		Philip does that.
		He lives in the state of Montana with his wife, Arlene, and five children.
		Hmm, they've been very productive.
		Over the past 10 years, Philip has been involved in the design, organization, and construction of numerous large underground shelter projects.
		Philip is one of a few civilians in the U.S. with experience in the areas of shelter life support systems, including power generation, air filtration, and so forth.
		Philip is involved in emergency services.
		He runs the local volunteer ambulance service with an associate who started the local volunteer fire department.
		So you see, he's a doer.
		Philip gives lectures, gives radio interviews on general preparedness, preparing for Y2K, civil defense, dealing with the natural and man-made disasters.
		I'm not sure which we have more of these days, natural or man-made disasters.
		He is a featured speaker at the preparedness shows, has written articles, has appeared in the American Survival Guide, Preparedness Journal, does numerous national radio talk interviews like this one, consulting in the area of shelter and system design.
		In order to help people in their preparation for survival, Philip also has an affiliate company, Yellowstone River Trading.
		It makes available preparedness, supplies, and equipment, including long-term storage, food, diesel generators, deep cycle batteries, food, grain mills, radios, water filters, and so forth.
		Here is Philip Hog.
		Philip, welcome to the program.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's always a pleasure to be on your show, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's good to have you back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No such thing as doomsday.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		At least for those that are prepared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe that ought to be the subtitle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, if you don't make it through a particular situation, it has become your own personal doomsday, whatever else has happened around the world, right?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think as long as we don't let ourselves go into a state of denial, I think if we do everything that we can do in terms of being alert, in terms of being responsible for ourselves and our family, I think that I always believe that life brings to us everything we need to do what we need to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, I'll take the opposite tack here a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think most of the country, save a lot of my listeners, Philip, go through all of their life in denial.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would tend to agree that there is a general tendency among the American public to be wrapped up in what I would call delusion and illusion.
		I think that we're a Hollywood society, and our illusions about the invulnerability of our lifestyle relate to what we see on the movie screen.
		You know, the good guys always win.
		You know, the bad guys, the U.S. always kicks butt on the bad guys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		I remember, you know, the movie Independence Day was a prime example of it.
		If you watch the first half of that movie, there's no way in hell Earth could have won.
		I mean, they were going to wipe us out absolutely.
		And we had sort of a heroic, wonderful ending to it that in real life I would not expect.
		Now, I'm not saying there's going to be an alien invasion, but if there were, you know, the first half of that movie should have ended with the end of everything.
		But instead, you know, we had this fantastic ending at Area 51 and people flying up in this captured saucer to destroy the mothership.
		Well, in real life, it probably would not have worked out that way, the way I saw the forces arrayed with the aliens' intent the way it was.
		Did you see that movie?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I did.
		I thought it was really entertaining.
		I liked the Marine fighter pilot, best of all, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, but that's the part that I considered to be unrealistic.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no question about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, all they cared about was killing us.
		And if they'd really had that kind of force, and that's all they cared about, that's what they would have done.
		They would have killed us.
		But, you know, it's a Hollywood movie, so let's leave Hollywood because real life ain't Hollywood folks.
		Philip, the first thing I want to ask you about is, I mean, here comes September.
		We're just about to September.
		And Y2K is getting pretty close now.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Especially 9999.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what do you know about 9999?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's purported to be the 9999 is the computer shutdown code.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, there are a lot of rumors flying around, including rumors about people having gone into print shops and seeing military officials in there printing coupon cards for martial law and, you know, commissioning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You know, like I say, I'm not saying this happened.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I'm saying there are rumors going around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, why would they need to go, though, to civilian print shops to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, government, God knows, if they have anything, they have presses.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Budget cuts, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I can see that occurring at a local preparedness level, certainly.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Right, I don't know.
		I think that Y2K is an interesting subject.
		Again, I don't profess to be a crystal ball reader, but I think that we can look at what's going on around us.
		We can look at the trends of history and politics in this country, and we can kind of project into the future and get a relative feeling as to what potentially we could be having to deal with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know that you know a lot about bunkers and shelters and that sort of thing.
		And there's more than just a little bit of rumor out there right now, Philip, about Y2K bunkers.
		Now, they quickly changed that to control center, but the news stories first came out as bunkers in Los Angeles, in Washington, D.C., in major urban areas, and they called them bunkers.
		I thought that was a little bit interesting, not to say that anything is going to happen, but why would they be spending millions of dollars on these underground, whatever you want to call them, if nothing is ahead?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a good point, and we'll talk a little more about the Russians and why are the Russians spending such extravagant amounts of money when they're bankrupt on their programs.
		It's kind of an interesting parallel.
		But getting to that, if we look at the national FEMA command post, which is Mount Weather, most people know nothing about Mount Weather, and it's only recently that in the last couple of years that articles have kind of squeaked through about its existence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know anything about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is Mount Weather?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, Mount Weather is in Virginia, and it's a facility with a capacity purported to be about 250, which includes a facility for the Postal Service and also, quote, the Federal Reserve.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And there are representatives there who stand in and would replace every member of Congress, excuse me, every member of the President's cabinet in the event that they got deceased due to a nuclear attack on the United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Assuming something awful like that happened, do you think they'd get Alan Greensban there first or the President?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, the point is, it's what they call continuity of government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
		Let me ask you another way then.
		With regard to the continuity of government, would the importance of Alan Greensban be greater than that of the president getting to the bunker first?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess it's a question of who we believe really is running the show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess that's what I was really asking.
		You don't have to answer these.
		I'm sorry.
		I'm just in an interesting mood.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		But nonetheless, that's the National FEMA command post.
		And not only, and they're always in this facility, it's always staffed.
		And ideally, the president and the cabinet would be whisked away by helicopter in the event of any national crisis, and they would try and get him in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do we know what's in there?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		It's just a national communication command post in the heart underneath the Granite Mountain.
		And it hubs to all these other bunkers and command posts around the country.
		Including, like, for instance, I got inside the Denver command post one time, which is kind of interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what did you observe?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, a friend of mine and I, we went down there and you walk up.
		They've got a mile square section in Denver, you know, and they've got a postal facility.
		It looks like a National Guard facility.
		But you drive into this little turnaround through the chain-link fence, and you come up to a doorway, a glass doorway, and it goes into the hillside.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It goes right into a hill.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so let me guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Philip Ho goes up and bangs on the door, right?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Almost.
		It's pretty classic.
		Anyhow, we were scoping the place out, and they had these big generator exhaust things coming out of the ground and transmitter towers and whatnot.
		And we're saying, oh, this is interesting.
		Boy, they could have done a little better this way and whatnot.
		So we go up to the door and we go to go in, and it's got a push-button lock on it, you know?
		And we say, well, shucks, you know.
		And then this guy walks up and he pushes the buttons.
		So we shrug our shoulders and we just follow him in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, there is no security other than pushing.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, wait, wait.
		So you walk down these stairs into this large lobby.
		And the reason they got this large lobby, there's these huge blast doors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Blast doors.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Blast doors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Blast doors, yes.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And you've got to have a large lobby so they can open and close.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Once you get through the blast doors, you come to a control center with bulletproof glass.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute, Philip.
		Now, I've really got to get this straight in my mind.
		You just walked in.
		A guy pushes a button.
		He walks in.
		The door is still open.
		So you walk in behind him, and nobody says, excuse me, sir.
		Or anything else?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, wait a minute.
		I'll give you the rest of the story here.
		So we go up to this control center and we say, there's this guy in there, and he's balding, and he's got these real thick glasses, and he's wearing a guard uniform, you know, and he's obviously on the verge of retirement.
		And he's got all of these security monitors up around him behind the bulletproof glass.
		And we're looking at him, and we can see these culvert tunnels running out with people walking up and down them.
		And it's really neat.
		You can see parts of the place that, you know, through his camera monitors that we couldn't see otherwise.
		We're saying, well, hello, we would like some civil defense literature.
		And this guy looks at us and he starts, duh, duh, how did you get in here?
		We just want some civil defense literature.
		And this guy's wetting his pants.
		You know, he's picking up the phone and calling different extensions.
		And he's trying to get somebody to come out and get rid of us.
		In the meantime, we're scoping this place out, looking at his security monitors and looking at the hinges on his blast door and scoping things out.
		And it took him about 10 minutes to get somebody to come out in a nice suit and tie.
		And he brings us out an application for literature.
		And he said, take this back to your state FEMA director, and if he signs an authorization, then we can give you some literature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What the hell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Since when do you fill out applications for literature?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Application for literature.
		I mean, there was some really interesting stuff listed on that.
		He had this list of potential literature, you know.
		But, you know, we had to have the state FEMA director authorize our access to literature.
		So we said thank you, and we went back out and we proceeded to take a closer look at their exhaust manifolds on there.
		It had some huge diesel generators in there.
		You could tell by the diameter, it was about a 10-inch diameter exhaust stack on it, you know.
		And, you know, people are looking at us like, what are you doing?
		What are you doing here?
		You know, and so finally we've decided we better clear out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Philip, gee, what's next for you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One of our nuclear labs?
unidentified		Hold on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stay right there.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		My guest is Philip Hogue.
		His book is No Such Thing as Doomsday.
		You know, it's true.
		As long as you look like you know what you're doing, you can go nearly anywhere.
		My guest is Philip Hogue, the Forrest Gump of Underground Control Centers.
unidentified		Listen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so have you ever done that before?
		It really is true, you know, if you kind of look like you know where you're going and you just, you know, maybe even have a clipboard.
		Clipboards are good to have with you.
		Nobody bothers you.
		It's a little worrisome.
		I mean, a lot of our nuclear secrets apparently just trotted out of some of our...
		Yeah, that's true.
		Los Alamos.
		And so I guess that is still true.
		But, gee, an underground blast door kind of thing, and you just walk right in, cool.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the point we were getting at when we were talking was that while everybody else is on the surface here dancing and playing, and life's going to go on forever, and Hollywood's so great, and, you know, we're so far isolated from all these disasters that happen everywhere in the world, the guys that are running the show, the guys that we're supposed to idolize, are quietly building themselves shelters and making all sorts of contingencies for the worst case scenario.
		But yet everybody's fed the line, everything's fine, don't worry, you know, have confidence in us.
		You know, there seems to be some sort of conflict here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's listen to what we tell you, but don't watch what we're doing.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, at one level, you know, I want to, you know, give them credit.
		I mean, I can understand from an economic point of view that everybody that's in any position in government is always paranoid about upsetting the economy.
		And you don't want to give investors the jitters.
		But nonetheless, I think that we need to be realistic.
		We need to look at what people in other parts of the world are doing.
		And we really need to go on a path which is going to ensure the viability of our children, our family.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, but they're always talking about the continuation of government.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		The continuity of government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The continuity of government.
		Now, you know, personally, I care less about the continuity of government, frankly, than I do about the continuity of myself, my wife, my family.
		Selfish, but true.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that one of my personal philosophies is there's a lot of people that are into political activism.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of people that, you know, think they're going to get out there and change the system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		My personal view, and I'm not trying to push it on anybody, is we've really gone beyond that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I gave up on that, but now some years ago, the system is too large for any individual to contemplate changing effectively or at all.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And my solution that I've gone to is the most effective way that I can apply myself is to do something that will really affect change, and that is to take care of my family, my friends, and my relatives.
		Because, you know, that's the control of my resources that I can expend.
		And I think it's important we kind of touch on the psychology here, because some people will say, well, you know, you just got a bad attitude.
		You know, you've got a negative attitude.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear that all the time about myself.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		But, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I do.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		There are two extremes.
		You know, when we see dark clouds on the horizon in the distance, you know, there's two responses, very two typical responses.
		One is the chicken little syndrome.
		And that is where, you know, the sky is falling down, you know, and every new date that comes around the corner, you know, the end is right there, you know.
		And it's where people get so emotionally imperiled and involved in potential disasters that they actually help bring them into manifestation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they're crippled.
		I mean, they can't do anything.
		It's like there's nothing I can do about it.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		They're frozen.
		And then you've got the other extreme, which is very common.
		It's probably the majority reaction in the United States, and it's the ostrich syndrome.
		It's like the problem is too big to deal with, so I'm going to stick my head in the sand.
		I'm going to try and deny it out of existence.
		And my personal feeling is we need to have a middle-of-the-road approach.
		We need to have what I call rational preparedness.
		We need to have open eyes.
		We need to be aware of what's going on.
		We need to dig a little deeper than what they spoon feed us with and sugarcoat us on the mainstream media.
		We need to figure out really what's going on.
		We need to evaluate threats and we need to try And plot a course to maneuver around them in the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look at what just happened in Turkey.
		And by the way, I've got a report tonight that there was not one, but they have now discovered two separate consecutive earthquakes that hit Turkey.
		And what do they have?
		12,000 dead, maybe as many as 40,000 are going to end up having died from these two earthquakes that occurred at the same time.
		And people somehow, they just get comfortable with the fact that that happens.
		Oh, it happens in Turkey or it happens in Japan.
		But that kind of thing doesn't really happen here.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, part of the problem is that, you know, we have been isolated.
		We've had the blessing of the Atlantic and the Pacific Ocean, which has isolated us with a cushion between some of the major world wars.
		We haven't seen war on this soil since the Civil War.
		And, you know, people in Europe, people in Asia, they don't have the same mentality we have here.
		You know, they've seen war and death on their soil.
		And they have a much more conservative and personally defensive attitude.
		So I think that, you know, we need to take on a more sober reality about life and the potentials for disaster in our own backyards here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, let's talk about the man-made variety first.
		Now, this is really serious stuff.
		I've been hearing more than rumors that Osama bin Laden, the terrorist guy, may have some number of suitcase nuclear devices.
		And he's not exactly the first person you'd want to be in possession of those.
		Have you heard that?
		And do you think that is true?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Yes, one and I'll discuss that.
		But just to defend you and your reputation, so they don't say that you and I are a bunch of kooky fanatics.
		Can I read a portion of an article here really quick from Defense Secretary William S. Cohen he gave on July 26th of this year?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You may indeed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It probably won't help my reputation, but go ahead.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, this guy's a big guy on the block, and he's kind of saying what you're saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		He says, in recent months, the eyes of the world have rightly focused on the threat of American interests and the values in the Balkans.
		At the same time, we cannot afford a national case of far-sightedness that precludes us from focusing on threats closer to home, such as the potential danger of chemical or biological attack on the United States, on the U.S. The United States now faces something of a superpower paradox.
		Our supremacy in the conventional arena is prompting adversaries to seek unconventional and unconventional means to strike our Achilles heel.
		At least 25 countries, including Iraq, North Korea, and so on, have developed the weapons of mass destruction.
		Then he goes on to say, also looming is the chance that these terror weapons will find their way into the hands of individuals and independent groups, fanatical terrorists and religious zealots and so on, within our borders.
		And he goes on to say, what would the day look like?
		A biological agent would sink into the respiratory and nervous systems of the afflicted.
		The speed and scope of modern air travel would carry this highly contagious virus across the hemisphere and hours.
		Indeed, the invisible contagion would be neither geographically nor numerically limited, infecting unsuspecting thousands, with many, in turn, communicating the virus to whomever they touch.
		He goes on here real quickly.
unidentified		Boy, he does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He does make me pale by comparison.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who was that again, please?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		What's that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who was that again, please?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		That was Secretary of Defense Cohen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		William Cohen.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Right, William Cohen.
		He says, the march of the contagion would accelerate astoundingly with doctors offering little relief.
		Hospitals would become warehouses for the dead and dying.
		A plague more monstrous than anything we have experienced could spread with all the irrevocability of ink on tissue paper.
		He goes on, welcome to the grave new world of terrorism, a world in which traditional notions of deterrence and counter-response no longer apply.
		But he goes on to say, he says, preparation is itself a deterrent.
		Now, that was pretty neat to hear him say that.
		We've got to quote the federal government on this.
		By minimizing the death and destruction would-be terrorists hope to spawn, we reduce the likelihood that they will even try.
		So he's talking about the importance of preparedness.
		But we were talking about bin Laden.
		And, you know, I've been following for a couple of years the fact that the Soviets had quite a good inventory of what we call suitcase nukes.
		Now, the United States has these, and they've had them around for quite a while.
		They're tactical nuclear devices.
		And the Russian version apparently is the size of a golf club bag.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And they actually had these in Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis, the early generations of these devices.
		And the Speznovs, Russian troops there, were authorized in the event of a conflict.
		The whole plan is that they would take these devices and go behind the lines and try and destroy essential command and control facilities.
		Like, for instance, you could stick one of these in a van, as someone suggested, and you could park it outside the Pentagon, clear out of the place, detonate it.
		Then it would take out the Pentagon and that portion of Washington, D.C. You know, so it's pretty serious stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How good is our intelligence with regard to his possession of these?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, We need to really take a good close look at this and we need to qualify.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		In other words, when we start talking about the Russians and deception and the art of war of Sun Tzu, a lot of this information we have in these estimates about bin Laden having nuclear weapons, it actually comes from the Russians.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this is where they would have come from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, the Russians have been in dire need of hard currency.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much do you think you'd have to come up with to buy a suitcase nuke?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure you'd have to spend about $10 million.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		$10 million?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I haven't gone out shopping lately for one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but I mean, it's a reasonable question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got people financing people like Bin Laden.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I mean, Bin Laden isn't the only kid on the block.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
		He's just one of the nastier bullies.
		And $10 million, why, $10 million is not a lot for a state like Iraq, for example, to come up with.
		It's well within their budgetary means.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's reasonable evidence to show that Iran bought four weapons from the Soviet Union.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great, just great.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		But nonetheless, you know, we get this image of mass chaos over there in Russia and the Soviet Union.
		But I'll guarantee you, I find it a little uncredible to think that the Russians would allow nuclear weapons to float away in such a fashion unless they wanted it to go somewhere.
		See, if you understand the art of war in Sun Tzu, it's more effective to initiate an attack through a surrogate or at least to initiate an attack with a plausible denial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if, as you just pointed out, look, if a nuclear device were to be detonated near the Pentagon, kaboom.
unidentified		Well, would we know who did it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		Could we respond?
		Could we punish whoever did it?
		No, because we wouldn't know who the hell did it.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		But if we left the paper trail a year before saying that bin Laden did it and it was some Arab extremist and say we're white Russians anyhow and we can't stand the Arabs anyhow because they're a major threat to our territorial integrity, well, we get two birds of one stone.
		In other words, I don't know.
		I can't tell you whether or not bin Laden has these purported 20 nuclear devices.
		It is possible that he has them, and it may be that he has them by blessing and intent.
		Nonetheless, there are a lot of third world countries which hate the United States for very good reasons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These, by the way, are mostly countries we have given great deals of money to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It really is true.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		But nonetheless, there are groups out there who have major beefs with U.S. foreign policy, and they feel that they cannot fight by conventional means.
		And this is also an attitude which Red China has adopted.
		And we can talk about this later when we talk about Red China.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, of course not.
		That's suicidal.
		I mean, that's the mad theory, mutual assured destruction.
		Or even worse, if they use one or two devices and it's a state that does it, then we obliterate them.
		There's no question about that.
		So you don't attack that way.
		You get a third party.
		But gee, thank God, Philip, our borders are sealed tighter than a drum, and nobody with a suitcase could possibly get into the borders of this country.
		And that should make us all feel safe, right?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's kind of interesting because there's been a number of defectors, Stanislav Leuven, and various other people who have confirmed the existence of these suitcase nuclear devices.
		In fact, they actually said that they were privy to the fact that part of the plan was, in the event of war, that the Russians would enter the United States in the same way that everybody else does want to get here.
		Right, and they would come in in a small boat, or they get deployed by a submarine or something.
		They come ashore, and they would deposit these things around strategic command and control facilities like our satellite uplinks for our intelligence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or they just walk across the border.
		I mean, you could almost print on the side of a suitcase, suitcase nuke, and somebody'd be waiting across the Rio Grande, and in all likelihood, he'd make it here just fine and find a motel.
		And, you know.
		Listen, hold on.
		We're at the top of the hour, so we'll be right back.
		My guest is Philip Hogue.
		No such thing as doomsday is his book.
unidentified		I can see learning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wrong.
		The United States and at least five other countries do not expect to finish their year 2000 computer bugs until just weeks before the new year.
		A new international survey reports on Thursday.
		Two other countries, Slovakia and Bolivia, do not believe they'll make it until next year.
		And so forth and so on.
		So we are one of five countries that either will not be ready in time or will be ready if we're lucky weeks before the deadline.
		And this is kind of interesting.
		This is from a police sergeant.
		It says, all right, I have just received information from the chief, a reference to Y2K and our planned response to all potential problems.
		As of today, there's going to be no leave for any one of you during the New Year holiday weekend.
		All officers will be on duty during this time period.
		We'll be working 12-hour shifts, and the Times will be announced as the time approaches.
		This is not open for negotiation.
		There will be no exceptions.
		And this comes from the Denver metropolitan area.
		One more little item that relates, in a way, to what Peter was talking about.
		Very interesting, too.
		WLS in Chicago, my affiliate in Chicago, the Monster LS on 890, mentioned apparently in their midnight news break that there is a meteorite that has now been found containing water.
		Oh, now let us think about that one.
		A meteorite containing water was recovered in Texas.
		This is the first time that water not of this earth has been recovered.
		Remember in high school when you used to look into pond water and all the little crawly things under the microscope?
		Well, you can bet they're looking at that water now.
		and I wonder what's crawling.
		Would you like...
		And then this.
		And this will be of interest to Philip Hogue, I think, Associated Press.
		I read this to you the other night.
		Bankers are asking your local clergy to help reassure people their money is going to be safe when the year 2000 rolls about.
		The American Bankers Association is distributing a very folksy sample sermon to clergy, asking them to debunk fears that a Y2K meltdown would cripple the banking system.
		So that's kind of interesting, Philip.
		The bankers are distributing this sample sermon that should be delivered in the churches to the people.
		Please.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Praise the Lord.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Praise the Lord.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pass the helmet.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And pass the fractional reserve banking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, let me at least get your best guess.
		I ask all my guests this, because Y2K could be everything from nothing at all and everybody going, oh, man, what a total non-event to a crippling event at the other end.
		Now, what do you think it's going to be?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, I'll give you my best shot at it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Let's just step back and look at the last 20 years.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And let me ask you, have you ever seen a bad situation, be it intentional or by accident, that we haven't seen some sort of capitalization whereby we see more and more power drawn away from the people and concentrated more and more in the hands of the few and distant?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's never happened.
		You mean like, for example, when some idiot goes with an assault rifle and kills a bunch of kids in a schoolyard and then we get gun control.
		You wouldn't be talking about that, would you?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's kind of the tree I was barking up.
		And let's stand back and look at this.
		Let's just put yourself in the position.
		Of course, nobody believes that everybody believes that all this stuff is just natural and that all the changes we're seeing in society are a matter of natural social evolution.
		But there are a few wackos out there that believe that there are really financial interests which control our political system and steer the trend of events.
		But nonetheless, just say hypothetically that you're one of these people, because I've thought about this.
		Now, if I really wanted to consolidate power and set up a more dictatorial, authoritarian type structure that would be more to my suiting for a monopoly market, and I saw Y2K coming, I mean, it looks to me like a situation for a kid stealing candy.
		I mean, it's just so too good to be true.
		I mean, let's just take a situation.
		Let's say, for instance, we have problems in the major cities.
		And this is very conceivable.
		If we just look at the food supply in the major cities, all right, we've got about a three to five day food supply.
		Part of the reason, and it's not all bad, is that we've got major food distribution chains and they've got computerized inventory systems.
		And these computerized inventory systems allow them to tell how much they're selling of any given item in a day.
		So therefore, they can keep the cost of food down lower by only stocking one day's supply of food.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You know, and they get deliveries every day.
		The downside of this problem is that if anything goes wrong, if they have a legitimate virus bug, or if you've got some high-level hackers out there in some highly financed facility that goes out there and starts sabotaging their computer systems, all of a sudden we'll start getting disruptions to food deliveries into the major cities.
		Now, what's going to happen?
		I mean, and there's other things that could disrupt food deliveries to the major cities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think what would happen is a lot of people, you know, if it got to that point, a lot of people would try to leave the major cities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't you?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and if you talk to any of the people in law enforcement, there also are programs about containing the exodus of people from cities and major disaster-type situations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I might add, and a lot of people may or may not be aware of this, but a lot of small towns have contingency plans to prevent the influx of people from big cities.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		That's interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I happen to know that is true.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, nonetheless, you know, it could be computer problems, which could create a problem like this.
		It could be disruption of our transportation system, the inavailability of fuel.
		It could be power shortages that could create the same problems that computer failure problems could cause.
		But nonetheless, if there were food shortages, what's going to happen in the major cities?
		Well, I mean, people aren't going to sit home and stay hungry.
		No.
		We kind of degrade to primal type nature when things like that happen.
		But nonetheless, what would happen would you have disorder in the major cities, and the governors would be screaming to the president, you've got to do something, comrade.
unidentified		Well, comrade, I have to do.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You need the National Guard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the National Guard, actually, the governors could activate the National Guard in their own state, right?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		That's correct.
		But nonetheless, we need federal help here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Federal help, yes.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Then the president would come on national TV and he said, I don't really want to do this, but the governors are twisting my arm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm having to declare national martial law so that.
		He wouldn't say the governors are twisting my arm.
		He would say it is an executive-level decision that I feel I must make for the health and welfare of those I serve, all of you.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		With the strong pressures that the governor's National Governors Association.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And an added line about how he feels our pain.
unidentified		Right.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		But nonetheless, it's a dream come true for an opportunity to push aside the U.S. Constitution, not that it isn't already gone.
		And if we look at what's been going on over the last two or three years with executive orders and the precedence of executive orders, you know, it's just an opportunity for kids that want to steal candy, and that's my major concern.
		I think Y2K in itself, if that's all we had to deal with, we could deal with it.
		I mean, look at what we did in World War II when we mobilized the country.
		You know, we can move mountains.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there might be problems, but I agree with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There would be workarounds and maybe disruptions and blah, blah, blah, but we'd get through it.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, it just smells a little bit to me like the dialectic process.
		I mean, you've got a problem and you implement, you get a reaction and you implement your solution.
		And what I see in this trend, you know, concerns me, especially as we see a trend toward trying to disarm the American public, which is a major agenda of the United Nations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of that going on now, yes.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And wherever you see genocide in the history of humanity, it always follows a previous gun confiscation.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Right, a gun confiscation program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The people that have been trampled all over the world, example after example after example, just mowed down or macheted down, are people who have had their weapons taken away.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		So, you know, I don't want to sound like a paranoid right-wing extremist, but I think that we kind of have to go back to basics here a little bit and put our eyes open.
		One of my big concerns is a lot of people have hash around this problem, that it's a real difficult situation to try and disarm the American public.
		Number one, you're not going to get National Guard guys.
		I mean, half to one-third of those guys are red-blooded Americans.
		And, you know, they're not so young and punkish that they're just going to take straight orders and say, you know, fire on or shoot at American citizens.
		But the trend we're seeing where our military is being gutted and the trend toward U.N. peacekeepers, you know, it wouldn't surprise me in a martial law scenario to see foreign troops here helping to maintain order in the major cities.
		Now, people say, well, this is far-fetched.
		It couldn't happen in the United States.
		But people don't understand.
		We signed a thing called the Partnership for Peace, and they don't realize that that was a revolving door.
		It wasn't just a one-way thing where we would send our troops over to Eastern Bloc countries and help maintain order.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The opposite could occur.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Yes, in fact, you know, we've had January 18th through 22nd of this year, we had something called Partner Challenge 1999, and it was held in Grayling, Michigan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what was it?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		It was a peacekeeping exercise involving National Guard personnel from three states and military personnel from three European countries.
		And, you know, there's, you know, I could dig out and pull all sorts of articles about other such events that happened down in Louisiana or whatnot.
		some of the exercises they engaged in were including, you know, disarming civilians and confiscating hoarding of food supplies, quote-unquote.
unidentified		So, you know, I think...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It really would.
		I mean, Americans are used to having guns to defend themselves.
		They're used to having food if they so desire to store, and it's nobody's business but their own.
		Now, that may be a very old-fashioned idea, but that's what most Americans still believe.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, and I think that, you know, there's this little media-orchestrated game that tries to put out this idea that if you decide you're going to put away some food reserves, if you're going to expend some of your personal money that could otherwise be spent down in Las Vegas or on some fancy vacation and decide to be a little self-sufficient and self-reliant, that that is supposed to be called hoarding.
		But let's take a look at this word hoarding.
		Hoarding assumes, number one, that there's a shortage.
		Number two, it assumes public ownership.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, once there is a shortage, though, then they call it hoarding and they can get away with the meaning, right?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you buy the line that in fact the government has a right to private property, that's called Marxism and Communism.
		But the point is, is if people prepare, and this is something that I really try to emphasize, if people prepare now, not only are you going to be self-sufficient and self-reliant and less apt to have to surrender your rights because you've got to line up for a food ration coupon, But also, you're in a position to help other people.
		And not only that, you're actually helping the overall situation because you're not out there competing for the few resources that are available.
		And so you are helping the situation, and the government should be encouraging everybody to prepare.
		We used to have national food reserves, grain reserves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		The USDA used to freeze tons of butter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Most of those are gone, aren't they?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		We sold the grain reserves to Russia.
		They put them in underground rail access facilities, and we sold it to them on terms that American citizens couldn't get.
		And they defaulted on those loans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, all of that really is absolutely true, folks.
		I know it sounds fantastic, but Philip Hoag is right.
		We had those grain reserves.
		We, in fact, sold them to the Russians with the financial conditions that no American could get.
		And then they turned around and defaulted, and they've got all the grain.
		And we don't have the reserves anymore.
		That is the truth.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		Well, I think it's time to get ready To realize just what I have found I have been on the hair of what I am Jesus Costco and GSE.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, back now to Philip Hogue.
		You know, listening to that commercial brings to mind another thing.
		If you're preparing for any potential difficulty of any sort, man-made or otherwise, you've got to worry about medicines.
		I mean, people depend on certain medicines in our society.
		We're kept alive for a long time by modern medicine.
		And what are you going to do if you can't get your medicine?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I've got in my book, No Such Thing as Doomsday, I cover everything from soup to nuts in an extremely comprehensive fashion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'd like to get some of that out on the air this morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, let us turn from what can happen, which we all pretty well know, to what we can do about it, personally.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To the hell with the government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What can we do about it?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And that's a good place to focus.
		And when we look at what I, I've got a chapter in here under medical considerations.
		You know, I talk about a lot of different things, both allopathic and homeopathic.
		Basically, when we start looking at medical considerations, and you talked about medications, I've got a few advices in here about how people can stockpile medications, and I think this is an important thing.
		There's a lot of people that are very dependent on their medications.
		Personally, I'm an emergency medical technician, and I have to deal with this a little bit.
		You know, one of the good options is just go to your doctor and say, you know, I'm a little concerned about Y2K.
		Most doctors know about it.
		And you say, I want to have one or two months cushion of medications.
		For a lot of people, this is going to be a big financial expenditure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you done that?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't take any medications.
		I mean, I have my own personal underground facility.
		It's about 7,000 square feet, and it's got three diesel generators, a clinic radio run.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, wait.
		Just one moment.
		You have how many?
		7,000 square feet?
unidentified		Wow.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		But it houses quite a few people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good Lord, Philip.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		It's got 10 feet of earth over the roof.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've actually done this yourself?
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I've got pictures in my book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's...
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I practice what I preach.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have a communications room, huh?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		We've got ham equipment in there.
		I can, you know, talk all over the planet.
		I can, you know, I can pick up local emergency frequencies and transmit them down there.
		We've got UHF, VHF, and ham.
unidentified		Wow.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And it's all hardened in a Faraday cage.
		And all of the antennas and power supplies are protected by gas tubes and MOVs.
		For those that are familiar with electromagnetic pulse protection, we did the same thing with our engine room.
		We've got three diesel generators in it, and we've got inverters and batteries in there.
		And it's in a steel tank, and it protected all the incoming and outgoing penetrations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, for somebody who wrote a book called No Such Thing as a Doomsday, why some people might consider there to be a slight gap here between the title of the book and your actions.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's no doomsday for me because I'm prepared.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		There may be doomsday for somebody else out there that's got their head in the sand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then, no, I'll say no such thing as doomsday for me and my friends.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I've got it.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		But anyhow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've been in a lot of trouble here, I know.
unidentified		I'm sorry.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I go into great details about medical considerations.
		Like, for instance, you know, we've stockpiled antibiotics.
		There's certain things you're not going to be able to stockpile unless you've got a prescription to it.
		Obviously, I do not advise anyone trying to stockpile painkillers.
		I mean, you can invest a lot into a nice facility and lose the whole property if somebody kicks down your door and finds you've got illegal meds in there.
		So you've got to keep within the parameters of a law.
		But nonetheless, you can go talk to your doctor, and I'm sure he'll work with you in putting aside medications.
		A lot of your medications have shelf lives, but I discussed this in the book.
		Medications are a lot like food.
		You take antibiotics, for instance.
		The best thing you can do is store those in a freezer.
		And I talk about extending shelf life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, let me stop you right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Keeping them cold in the refrigerator or actually putting them in the freezer?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, like, for instance, antibiotics, it would probably be a good idea to stick them right in the freezer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You can check with the people at your Pharmacy, and there's usually numbers that you can contact to find out, you know, if freezing will damage the product.
		Usually, it won't.
		But when you look at the shelf life on a product, in most cases, and you need to check in every situation, when that shelf life expires, it doesn't mean that the product became toxic.
		It just means under the worst case scenario, the potency is not going to be what they profess it to be after this date.
		So you could have 10-year-old antibiotics that might work just fine as long as they've been kept at a cool and constant temperature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You might have to take a few more of them.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		But if, for instance, you took those same antibiotics and you stored them for five years in the freezer, they're going to be in real good shape when they come out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the truth of the matter is that without antibiotics, in a critical situation, something like an infection could kill your butt, right?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Not only that, you know, in my book, you know, I start out with water is the most important thing.
		I move to food and I go up to hierarchy.
		You know, we go all the way up to power, communication, security, and whatnot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But water is number one.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Water is number one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what the hell do all the people, I mean, they're listening to you now in Chicago and Los Angeles, New York, and every major city in the U.S. And if the water goes off and you're 30 floors up in an apartment building in a high-rise and the water goes off, what do you do?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Okay, simple.
		It's not that difficult.
		It's the cheapest thing you can deal with.
		All right?
		I mean, there's a lot of people out there selling these water barrels and whatnot.
		And I'm not too hyped up on the idea of storing water because water doesn't generally store that well or taste that good after it's been stored in plastic containers for a year.
		And it's hard to find space to store it.
		But generally, if you're in Chicago, there's water all over the place.
		Now, let's just think about the scenario.
		Say that the governor of Chicago comes out and he says, we've got evidence that there's been a biological attack against the municipal water system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean the mayor?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		The mayor, yeah, I'm sorry, the mayor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You know, what are people going to do in Chicago?
		They're going to end up trying to drink surface water because the National Guard isn't going to be able to pull in water fast enough to deal with them.
		Or somebody detonates a device on the municipal water plant and knocks it out of function.
		The beauty of this country, the reason that we don't experience the ravages of diseases that they experience in the third world countries, is the fantastic sanitation system we've got in this country.
		And they've already shown that there's some major problems with Y2K and embedded processors in the water purification plant.
		So my advice to people is everybody, everybody should own a portable means of purifying water.
		And it's not expensive.
		I mean, we sell them on our website.
		You can get them in any outdoor supply store in the United States, any Army, Navy store, any backpacking store.
		They're portable operated water filtration devices.
		They do not need cap pressure.
		You can go to a mud puddle.
		You can go to a river.
unidentified		You can go to a creek.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You can, you know, you can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they really work.
unidentified		They work.
unidentified		They work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I've seen these, and they're relatively inexpensive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've even seen them for like 30 bucks.
unidentified		Right.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You know, there are some that are better than others.
		And there are some that are, quote, just name brand, and you pay twice the price for the same thing that you can get from an American version.
		And I cover all this in my book.
		But that's the most important thing.
		You can get the best top of the line, the ones the U.S. Marines use for $60.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that's amazing.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You know, and to me, I tell everybody that's your first investment.
		It isn't going to cost you that much.
		And if you can't afford that, you can go out and you can get iodine drops.
		You can get iodine tablets.
		You can get chlorine tablets.
		You go to any one of your outdoor supply stores.
		This is immediately available.
		You can get this anywhere, and it's cheap.
		It's the most important thing because, like, when Saddam Hussein ran the Kurds up into the mountains, when they had to flee to these refugee camps with tents, they lost a third of their children to bad water.
		They died.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A third of their children.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And you start looking at situations in Turkey, and they're really concerned about waterborne diseases right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You know, and we are in a worse position in the United States than they are there because they're used to crummy water.
		We're pampered.
		We're not used to bad water.
		We go down to Mexico and we get the revenge.
		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've had it.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		So that's your first thing.
		Extremely important.
		And this is another reason we're talking about medications and antibiotics.
		Boy, you know, and I talk about places you can get antibiotics legally, whether, you know, you go down and buy it in Mexico or you contact a veterinary supply and stockpile some for your horsey.
		But there's also some real good books I recommend in there that show you conversion charts between, you know, what the comparable...
		Right, right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And so I think the medical...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why is it...
		Now, the antibiotics for a horse are basically the same antibiotics, aren't they, that we take?
		Is that true?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, some of them, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some of them, no.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the ones that they use in veterinary-type activities are the same, if they are the same.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so these can be just purchased off the shelf.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, why is that?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Until the show is over and the FDA gets uptight about it.
		But, you know, there's mail order, Jeffers Veterinary Supply.
		I've got the phone number in my book.
		You can call up and you can order antibiotics for your livestock.
		Now, you have to be careful, and you need to know what you're doing.
		And like I say, I've got the references in my book.
		There are certain veterinary antibiotics that you don't want to use on humans.
		But they're not, they're different.
		They don't use them on humans.
		In other words, like for instance, I've got goats, and there's certain antibiotics that you wouldn't use on people that use on goats because they damage human auditory nerves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, you could make a big, big mistake if you didn't know what you were doing.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		But there are some very good books out there.
		There's a book out there called Where There Is No Doctor, and it's a third world, it's a health worker's guide to third world country medical services.
		And excellent book, and it gives you all the antibiotic conversion charts, and it gives you the dosages per body weight and things like that.
		This stuff could be absolutely priceless in the face of a natural disaster or some situation that created a shortage of medications.
		I mean, you know, so it's important consideration.
		The other thing is we have to start looking at and being realistic.
		You know, you start looking at a large-scale natural disaster, be it war or something else, and we kind of start falling into the triage scenario that, you know, we can only do what we can do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about, now if you're in Chicago and it's the middle of the winter and the power goes out, baby, you're in trouble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going to get cold.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right?
		Or if you live where I am here in the middle of what we call high summer and it's 110, 15 degrees, power goes out, you're in trouble.
		You're cooked.
		You're cooked is quite literally true.
		So what do you say to people in these harsh climates, one way or the other, about how to stay alive should the power go out?
		That's certainly a possibility.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I've got a whole chapter in my book on heating.
		And this is a real important subject after we get through water and food.
		We move to heat.
		Obviously, if you've got electrically powered heating, you're in trouble.
		You can't depend on it.
		And that even includes natural gas furnaces because they require electricity to work.
		And a lot of people don't realize this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You know, the burned will not kick on if the blower isn't operational.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And so there are some devices out there, if you think you're going to rely on natural gas, there's some radiant natural gas heaters.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		But the problem is, is that the burner will not kick on if the blower isn't operational.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And so there are some devices out there.
		If you think you're going to rely on natural gas, there's some radiant natural gas heaters.
		But the problem is, is that your natural gas pipelines have compressor stations that have embedded chips.
		And I don't know, but there's a good possibility that you're going to have some failures there.
		So a lot of people I recommend to them, if they're looking at heating, the ideal form is wood heating.
		Of course, if you live in a major city, you're not going to be able to do that.
		Your next best option is going to be propane.
		Again, a propane furnace is not going to work without electricity, but there are propane-radiant heaters, and there are certain precautions you need to take to use them.
		So, you know, that's basically the drift on heating.
		If you're in a situation where you need air conditioning, well, Art, have you ever thought of an evaporative cooler?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Still needs electricity, but it's a little more energy efficient.
		One of the big things, the next step when we get beyond heating and cooling, I've got a very extensive chapter on power generation.
		And I get people that call me all the time.
		I had a guy call me today from Georgia, and he figured out he needed 88 KW to run his air conditioning system in his house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And he was talking...
		That's a hell of a lot of power.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And I said, now let's just think about this for a minute.
		We're talking, at best case scenario, eight gallons of diesel fuel an hour to power that air conditioner.
		I said, are you prepared to buy a fuel tank that big?
		I mean, I could get you the 80 KW diesel generator.
		I said, but let's be realistic.
		So what I get into in a lot of education with people is we have to start looking at power conservation.
		Whenever we start looking at making our own power, we have to start looking at conservation.
		We have to start seeing what can we do without that runs on the power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you have to become realistic.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And becoming realistic, it's a pretty frightening process when you realize what it actually takes to power the average home, either with air conditioning or with heat requirements or whatever, is a lot of power.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Art, can I interject something here?
unidentified		Yep.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		For those that, I know there's a lot of people out there that might not stay up all night, and maybe I could give out my phone number if they want to order our book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course you can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is your book on Amazon?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you can get it on barnsandnobles.com.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You can get it on Amazon.com, or you can order it direct from us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And you can get it quicker from us because we mail everything priority mail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I heard an echo in the background saying quicker from us.
		All right.
		No such thing as doomsday with a lot of practical info in it, and the number is.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		1-800-327-7656.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		7656?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		That's 1-800-327-7656.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		24 hours a day or just during the day or what?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, during the day.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		In other words.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, this is a number that rings right there at your house.
unidentified		That's correct.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		In fact, it just rang.
		Somebody dialed it.
		But we also have, if the line gets busy, because I remember the last time I was on your show, the phone rang solid for three days.
		We have a secondary number with a call fulfillment service.
		If you get a busy number, you can call there and they'll get your order.
		And that's 1-800-326-1817.
		That's 1-800-326-1817.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much is your book?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, it's $29.95 plus $4 for shipping and handling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's it, huh?
		And it's stock full of real stuff you can do, like medicine, like water, like food, like protection from the elements.
		All of these things are in your book.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Not only that, this is the only book in existence which really, in a hands-on fashion, covers how you can protect yourself from the nuclear and biological threat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold it right there, Philip.
		We'll be right back.
		That's 1-800-327-7656, the direct number.
unidentified		Every night I open the prayer.
		Girl, the hold in my know the magic of her charms.
		Cause I want you, girl.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Water, water inside a meteorite from somewhere else.
		Absolutely incredible.
		Oh, well.
		Back to Philip Hogue.
		Philip, welcome back.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Art.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Will you mind if I also give out my website there for all those?
unidentified		Well, we've got links.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure, go ahead.
		We've got links up on our website.
		I think we do anyway.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you can go right into artbell.com, and there's a link there that goes to our website, which is no doom.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's n-o-d-o-o-m.com.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then there's a secondary one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's y2k survivalfood.com too, right?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Okay.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And you can go in there and you can actually preview the chapters of our book.
unidentified		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's big of you.
		By the way, let me give out your book number again.
		You don't give autographed copies, do you?
		You don't sell autographed copies?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you have a question, I'll give you a short.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I will do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You will do it.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I will do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Especially for art bell listeners only.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		For art bell listeners only.
		All right, what's that number again, please?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		1-800-327-7656.
		That's 1-800-327-7656.
		And the secondary order number is 1-800-326-1817.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but if you want an autograph book, you're probably going to have to get through an order line number one.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you'll have to go through the primary order line, which is 1-800-327-7656.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, I just pushed you into something, didn't I?
		All right.
		First time caller line, you're on there with Philip Hogue.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi, Art.
		This is Greg from Clovis, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I've been listening to you for four years, and this is the night that I finally got a hold of you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, good.
unidentified		This is really exciting.
unidentified		I'm on the website right now of the Y2K Survival Food Schools, and it's quite interesting, a lot of interesting products.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		My question is this.
		I have a friend that works for the phone company in California, and we all know which phone company that is.
		And he told me something interesting.
		He said that if the power goes out, that the phones have backup generators.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I suppose.
unidentified		And I asked him, and I said, well, how do they recharge the generators?
		He said, well, of course, they use power to do that.
		I said, well, what would happen if there was power outages for a substantial amount of time?
		They said, well, usually when the power goes out, everybody wants to get on the phone and call.
		And that's a problem because it drains from the generators.
		And he said, if it happens for a substantial amount of time, they have to cut off the phones completely and go to emergency service lines only because those are the important lines that they must maintain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's really interesting.
unidentified		And I said, so what do you mean?
unidentified		You're saying if the power goes out, he said, yeah, if the power goes out and a bunch of people get on the phone and call, you might not be able to call 911 anyway because they're going to have to save the power that they have for the EMS lines.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that makes all the sense in the world.
		I know they've got back up because power has gone out here.
		You know, we're out in the boondocks here, and it goes out, and the phone is still working.
		So I know that is true.
		But for a protracted period of time, I wonder how long they are prepared to go before they would have to begin cutting the phones off.
unidentified		He said that all depends on how much power goes out, how far the grid is, and how many people are affected, and how many people get on the phone at once.
unidentified		For instance, if a good portion of the state of California was to lose power and a lot of people got on the phone, they would almost have to immediately shut down and go to EML lines only.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Philip, you want to comment on that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It goes to the question of communications.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, it stands to reason.
		Like I do a lot of reading in major disasters with EMS and fire and whatnot.
		And typically the first thing that happens in a disaster is the frequencies get totally overloaded.
		You know, you get a plane crash or a train wreck or something like that.
		And the same thing is going to happen in a disaster where civilians are involved.
		I am familiar a little bit with the phone company backup systems.
		They have some kind of sophisticated batteries that they've been using for years, and they have a float charger system on them.
		And so I'm sure at some of their facilities they actually have backup generators.
		They're probably most of them run by natural gas, some cases diesel.
		But the bulk of their backup systems, as I understand, are a battery system because I have friends that buy them now and then that on a scheduled basis they retire these batteries and put new batteries in place.
		And so yes, there is a battery system.
		So I've heard say that most of your phone system is harder against electromagnetic pulse damage also, which is refreshing knowledge.
		We'll find out for sure after such an event.
		But yeah, there's a potential problem there.
		I have a whole chapter in my book on disaster communications.
		And I actually have a picture of the Sea Crane Beijing Radio, an excellent product.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you really?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Great Y2K item.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is with a light.
		You know, it's because it gives you, you know, obviously, if your phone is out, if the lights are out, what are you going to want?
		You're going to want to know what the hell's going on, and you're going to want to not stumble over something and break your leg.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And there's a very important psychological factor to be able to know what's going on.
		The unknown is a great fear to most people.
		And to have a radio or something that's going to work when the power is out, and you can turn it on, and you can hear from an emergency broadcast what's going on could be, you know, the value could be just phenomenal.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you.
		But what else can people do?
		In other words, do you recommend people have CB radios?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I think CB radios are an excellent idea.
		You know, obviously, you know, you're an expert in communication.
		You understand ham radios and things like that.
		All of this depends on, number one, who you want to be able to communicate with, whether you want to just listen to them or you want to actually talk to them, and how deep you want to get into it.
		Of course, the guys that have really got it together are the ham radio operators.
		And I recommend, I talk about ham radio in my book and all the other options, whether it's commercial or family-band radio.
		First, you need to start out and decide who you want to talk to.
		If it's your neighbor down the block, you know, it may be family-band radio, which you can buy inexpensively.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but that's short-range.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		That's very short-range.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It should be said.
		I'm going to say it because I don't care if I get in trouble.
		I'm a licensed ham, so yes, I've got a lot of equipment here.
		I've got a hundred-foot tower and thousands of pounds of steel above my head here.
		So I've got a pretty expensive setup.
		But you can buy a ham radio transceiver, and even if you don't have a license, boy are they going to get me for this.
		You can buy it.
		I mean, it's like you can buy it, and you can't use it without a license.
		But on the other hand, if everything's coming apart and you need to talk a long distance, that's what'll do it.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And not only that, there are provisions in an emergency, as far as I understand, maybe that you can transmit without a license.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In a dire emergency, the eventual FCC is the last thing I would think about.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And I highly recommend that you look in everybody who's really interested in disaster communications, get a hold of the local ham group.
		In every town and city, there's ham freaks out there that there's nothing more than they'd love to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I object to freaks.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I mean enthusiasts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		That, you know, this is their life, and they just love to teach you, you know, antennas and how they've got courses, crash courses on to pass your tests.
		Yep.
		And, you know, look into this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, going out now with new licenses and renewals of licenses are little notes about Y2K and ham radio.
		I keep meaning to get one and read it, and I had it.
		I don't know what I did with it.
		Somebody sent me one.
		It's really interesting.
		Wild Guard Line, you're on the air with Philip Hogue.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
unidentified		I'm a, like I told you, I'm a police officer with a major Southern Police Department.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I just wanted to make y'all aware that in roll call about two weeks ago, we were asked to keep our eyes open for people that are stocking up things for the Y2K.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
unidentified		I'm serious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, come on.
unidentified		I'm serious as a whole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And we were asked to write a memo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would you as a police?
unidentified		Well, now let me finish.
		Yeah, please.
		Okay.
		So we were asked to look for these things and then write a memo.
		And when we asked who wants to know this information, all we were told is that our administration had an interest in it and they wouldn't tell us anything else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're serious.
unidentified		That was a heart attack.
unidentified		I wouldn't kid you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That really sucks.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, how did, you know, as you guys broke up that day after getting that news, what was the talk between you like?
unidentified		Well, it was kind of like, well, I guess we better put our names on the list.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's alarming, Philip.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I agree it's alarming, but it's unfortunate that I have a little section in my food chapter on the issue of hiding food.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You know, I don't want to ask you about it.
unidentified		You're also aware that part of the Crime Act, you know, from 1994, it's now illegal to hoard more than six-month supply of food.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a federal crime.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they can kiss my food later.
unidentified		Well, me too, but, you know, I'm just saying, I just want this information to get out, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, gee, thanks for the cheerful phone call.
unidentified		Well, you know, give me that warm, fuzzy feeling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, indeed.
		Warm and fuzzy.
		Thank you, and y'all take care down there.
		You know, I have no reason to disbelieve him, but that's really awful.
		I mean, to tell the guy on the street, the force on the street, look, we want you to start noting who's hoarding.
		I hate that word.
		Who's trying to prepare?
		God, that's terrible.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I have a gentleman that I did some consulting for up in Montreal, and his parents, during the ice storms up there, when the power was out for so long, they had a generator.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, they had the generator running and they were powering up their house.
		And the authorities came along and confiscated it.
		They said they needed it for an emergency shelter.
		And, you know, this friend of mine, it really made him sober.
		And, you know, he was planning some Y2K preparedness projects.
		And he's extremely paranoid about being confidential because of the fact his parents, you know, it was cold out and they came and they just took the generator.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just took it.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Took it.
		Needed it for an emergency shelter.
		So these are kind of sobering thoughts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And well, look, here's Philip Hoag with 7,000 square feet of underground shelter.
		God knows what's stocked up.
		And so what are you going to do when They come to take away what you've got, Philip.
		What do you do?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, this is what we call the worst-case scenario.
		Right.
		You know, our own government turning into a tyrant.
		And we hope and pray that this doesn't happen.
		And obviously, as Sun Tzu said, there's never engage a superior military force.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All that having been said, though.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You know, you don't want to tangle with the authorities.
		The best thing to do is try and avoid them if they turn vicious.
		And we all hope that doesn't happen.
		And I'm not anti-government.
		I'm part of emergency services here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I understand.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		But you've got more of a problem if you're living in a highly populated metropolitan area.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		If you live in a small town...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what are you going to do?
unidentified		Well, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're really pushing you here.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You know, there are people that know where I am, but I'm kind of out and out of the way, and I live in an area.
unidentified		Open up, Hogue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We want your generator.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We want your food.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, my generator is bolted down.
		And, you know, I mean, that's a possibility.
		And, you know, we all have contingencies for situations like that.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll let you get off there.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Philip Hogue.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
unidentified		Hello, Philip.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		How you doing?
unidentified		Good.
		How y'all?
		Good.
		This is Alan calling from Christiana, Tennessee.
		First, real quick, Art, checked out your kind of litigation page, if you want to call it that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I want to encourage everybody to go check that out because what's on there is overwhelming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		I know.
		And it's being dubbed by the other side as Art Bell fans.
unidentified		Boy, it's a great question.
		Well, let's hear it for Art Bell fans, okay?
		Because we love you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're not, actually.
unidentified		Well, but I'm saying for the folks that are going to hear your show and go through that page, they're going to be overwhelmed.
		And I encourage them to do that.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now you've talked us to the bottom of the hour.
		So hold on, sir.
		We'll come back to you, and we'll come back to Philip after the break.
unidentified		We've got a break here for a moment.
unidentified		Well, I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some people say this is crazy and preparedness is crazy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if that's what you think, then your head belongs right where it is, wherever that is.
unidentified		Be happy.
unidentified		Warm and fuzzy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now move back to Philip Hogue.
		There are a lot of people who wish to talk to him.
		Listen, his book, so that you know, revised in June of 99, second edition, is 406 pages with 356 charts, pictures, and illustrations.
		This is, I guess it's a survival book, right?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a book that covers all aspects of general preparedness, civil defense, and preparing for any type of disaster there is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if you want an autographed copy, you dial 1-800-327-7656, and that number is available right now.
		I think Philip's wife is answering it in the background.
		All right, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Philip Hogue.
		Once again, thank you for waiting.
unidentified		Yes, Art, thank you.
		Philip, my question was, as far as your family and how you're preparing them, and you probably alluded to this in your book, and I'm going to try to get it, but as far as protocol, you know, our lifestyles are pretty lavish in, you know, as far as other countries and everything is what we're used to having.
		Have you prepared your family in any way?
		And, you know, is there, what have you set up, you know, or what have you told them as far as if things were to get a little bit sketchy?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, number one, I intentionally positioned myself out in a rural area.
		And, you know, I don't want to discourage people in the cities.
		And we can talk about that another time or later.
		You know, what can people do in the cities?
		But obviously, if you're standing on the railroad track and you see a train coming, what's the best thing to do?
		Get off the tracks.
		Get out of the way.
		And there's a lot more odds against you in the metropolitan area.
		I live in the country.
		I've got, you know, elk herds back up in the hills behind me.
		I've got deer all around me.
		I can grow a garden here.
		I have dairy goats.
		You know, I've got a couple of horses.
		And so, and I'm kind of integrated with the local community.
		I'm part of emergency services here.
		And that's an ideal situation.
		Not everybody can do it.
		But, you know, my suggestion to people is, number one, you need to, as much as possible, put yourself in a position of self-sufficiency and self-reliance.
		Self-reliance could be as simple as having a water filtration device and a long-term food storage program stored underneath your double bed in your apartment.
		But, you know, this goes by degrees.
		I've got a portable diesel generator out here.
		I've got inverters.
		I've got deep cycle batteries for my house.
		You know, I've got kerosene and kerosene lamps.
		I've been heating my house with a wood stove.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what is your address?
unidentified		Boondock.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		They can burn it at the Yellowstone River.
unidentified		No.
		Philip, a little more to my point was, have you told your children, you know, you're not going to have TV, maybe.
		You're not going to have some of these things, and you maybe need to start thinking about, you know, maybe our existence, maybe for a short time, like Art says, or who knows?
		Well, what's it going to be?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		My situation is a little different because I don't allow a TV in my house.
		I mean, we have video, we have TV sets with video, but I don't get any TV reception in my house because quite frankly, I just think it's A form of natural mind control.
		And you don't realize that until you get away from it.
unidentified		Yep, and I agree with that somewhat.
		But you see what I'm saying?
		I'm talking about all the things that we're used to.
		There may be a time, like Art said, maybe short or maybe longer, that we're going to be out without these things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Trey, I mean, for many of us, life without television might not even be worth living.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nobody wants to laugh at that, huh?
unidentified		Thanks.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		But I'm sorry, I got it interrupted here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Like in my case, my children are all homeschooled.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And I think that's becoming more popular with Columbine and all these other crazy disasters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And my kids, I don't think they would notice much of a change because they have my daughters into horses.
		You know, my other children, they love to play outside.
		They've got things that are going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you're already living what today could be called an alternate lifestyle.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, not as much as the Amish, but maybe a little closer.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You know, they won't miss a beat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear you.
		West of the Rockies, you're on here with Philip Hogue.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		This is Phil.
		I'm calling from Los Angeles.
		I mean, no, Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't know whether you're in L.A. or Vegas?
unidentified		You caught me off guard because I've been going back and forth.
		I see.
		But anyway, I'm an employee here at Harris, Las Vegas.
		Yes.
		And, you know, one of my concerns is primarily the federal government is already in our house, and now they're almost getting ready to step into our shoes.
		And I'm not anti-government, but I do believe that the states should belong to the hands of the people.
		And have you considered, is that, I'm going to get your book, but have you considered anything, or is there anything in your book that mentions about order, like after the fall, after the fact, if the reality does come that there's going to be martial law or the worst case scenario, is there any way that we can rebuild our cities?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		That really is a pretty good question.
		In other words, if the worst case scenario manifests itself, what do you envision rising from the ashes like the Phoenix?
		What comes after?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, the worst case scenario and what comes after, I know what I would like to see what comes after.
		I mean, we're looking at a situation, if we look at the worst case scenario, where we get thrown back in the horse and buggy age without the horse and buggy.
		There's no horse and buggy there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We wouldn't know what to do with them most of us anyway.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, we're at a real handicap in a situation like that.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		We're thrown back into the 1920s and 30s without the basic infrastructure that they had then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They knew about horses then.
		Today, the only thing most people know is how many horsepower their engine is.
		Right.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		There's some serious problems when we look at the whole basis of our infrastructures.
		Everything's based on power.
		Everything's based on fossil fuels.
		And we could have some real serious problems potentially, especially with the fact that if we even put aside the U.S. and say we fix everything here, you know, the third world countries, you know, they've got a long ways to go, especially in our foreign oil that we're importing and the drilling rigs and everything that's involved with the embedded processors.
		They're going to be a long time redoing that.
		So, number one, the ideal would be that we turned into some sort of a more decentralized infrastructure where we went back to basics.
		My major concern is that there's other people that have other plans.
		So I just hope things move in our direction and we have a chance to get more back to our basics of our founding fathers and things like that.
		And hopefully we don't move away from it to a more authoritarian, centralized, totalitarian system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in worst case, then there would be enclaves, wouldn't there?
		Isn't that probably what would develop?
		There would be no centralized control.
		There'd be enclaves and little fiefdoms and kingdoms for a while.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I really recommend that there's great strength in community, and I have a chapter on group management in my book.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And I talk about how to work together in groups and the strength of groups and the pitfalls of working with groups and how you can avoid the pitfalls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All of that is quite likely in the aftermath, isn't it?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And, you know, I've done a lot of work with groups, and I found some major pitfalls with authoritarian structures, you know, where you get somebody that turns themselves into some sort of junior potentate.
		And I really advocate, and I have some hands-on information in there about group management structures and how you can work in group dynamics.
		And I really recommend that people look into these things because you can do so much more with a group.
		Because not every one of us is a diesel mechanic, a brain surgeon, you know, and a guy that can make bread.
		You know, we've all got individual geniuses and talents, and we all have our blind spots.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you would need a small community of people who know individual, have individual talents.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Right, and there's a great dynamics.
		You know, your ability to do things squares if you can work as a group.
		But as I say, there's pitfalls to working in groups that people need to understand so they can avoid them.
		And I cover all this in the book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It really does sound like a very, very comprehensive book to me.
		So again, folks, worth having, worth studying, worth having in your library, just in case.
		1-800 for the autograph version.
		1-800-327-7656.
		And on the first time caller line, you're on the air with Philip Hoag.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, Philip.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, where are you?
unidentified		I am calling from Columbia, South Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		What I have a question for is about preparedness.
		Today, well yesterday's paper, the front page said that there was 800 Marines from Camp Lejeune in about the second week of November going to practice here in our city.
		This really worries me and makes me wonder about how we should prepare or whatever.
		I guess everyone can understand this.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is going on all over the country, and they're training the military in urban warfare.
		What's equally serious is the fact that they're cross-training law enforcement at these same facilities.
		So it's a real situation, and people are getting more and more indoctrinated through the media to the idea of seeing troops on the streets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are we going to think of these as the good old days?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, George Washington had some interesting statements about government.
		And the founding fathers had some attitudes about government.
		And things seem to have mutated to an inverted situation.
		And George Washington said, government is not reason.
		Government is not eloquence.
		It is force.
		And like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
		The way things started out was the whole idea was you and I, we had rights.
		We had inalienable rights granted to us by the Creator.
		And that government was our servant, which we delegated limited and enumerated powers to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we formed our government so that we actually could convey all of those absolute rights to the citizens of this country.
		And as it became bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, which inevitably it does, it changed.
		It turned around 180 degrees.
		And we've turned so far now that we look like Linda Blair on a bad day.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And now we're in a situation where we're issued privileges.
		We no longer have rights, but we're issued privileges by the government.
		And that's just the kind of thing that we tried to get away from from King George.
		So I don't know what to tell you, but we've got a problem.
		And if we're going to change that problem, we're going to have to change it ourselves.
unidentified		Right.
		Another point was the urban crises they're practicing for is supposedly to be taken out in international theaters.
		But I just don't know.
		It just doesn't sound right to me.
		And that's really got me concerned about this area.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's one of those dark clouds on the horizon, and it's good reason to be prepared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Philip Hogue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Oh, hi.
unidentified		This is Ben again from Oregon City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ben, you're only allowed to call once per show.
unidentified		Well, I called last night.
		I didn't call today, though.
		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then you're all right.
unidentified		Yeah, that's good.
		Sorry.
		I have two comments and one question.
		My first comment is, if I'm calling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're only allowed one comment and one question.
unidentified		Okay, sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so one comment.
unidentified		If one of those suitcase bag nuclear explosives went off, how much would I bet the government would probably cover it up and say that I'll make already cut the person instead of putting the government in panic?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was just kidding.
		You can make two comments.
		What's your other one?
unidentified		Okay.
		And this is my question.
		What do you think are the chances that in the next 10 years that we're going to go into war with another country?
		Huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, almost 100%.
		Which 10 years have we not been at war with some country?
		That's my answer.
		Which decade would you say was entirely free of conflict for the U.S.?
unidentified		Well, there's probably a couple of them, but not very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They'll name one.
unidentified		I'm not really sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's because I don't think there is one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Philip, do you think there was a decade at which we were not at war with some country?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		No, not that I can recall.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe not a declared war, but a conflict of some sort.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Not that I can recall in a long time.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You know, war has stated purposes, and war has unstated purposes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And most of the ones we fight now are rather unstated.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		You know, there's population reduction, there's the creation of debt.
		There's a lot of economic reasons for war.
		And, you know, if we look through the history of World War II, we'll see that it's quite plain what happened there in World War I. We got the Federal Reserve, and as soon as we got it, we needed a national debt, so they created a war.
		So the government could borrow money from the private bank called the Federal Reserve.
		And here, we just on May of 25th of this year, there was a historic vote in the United States Senate, it was 52 to 47, that shifted the blame off the commanders of Pearl Harbor to the commander-in-chief of the nation for the surprise attack by the Japanese on Pearl Harbor.
		You didn't see this in CNN.
		But nonetheless, there was an official statement there that the commander-in-chief, they didn't name him, but it was Roosevelt, knew about the impending attack on Pearl Harbor, and he allowed it to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's very controversial.
		I know that's kind of a conservative underpinning.
		They've always thought that, that Roosevelt knew the war was.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		I mean, I don't know.
		I'm just saying that's what happened in this particular Senate action.
		But anyhow, I do think that there is potential for war in the future.
		And if we just look around and see what's going on in China, see what's going on in Russia, these people are moving on to a war footing.
		And at the same time, we are disarming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, look at the Gulf of Conquin.
		We start wars.
		There's no question about it.
		We do.
		And we intervene, and in most recent years, we have decided to become the police prisons of the world, or at least the enforcement arm of the UN, which has decided it's going to be the police organization of the world.
		There's absolutely no question about that.
		So people can draw from that what they wish.
		Listen, can you stick around for one more hour?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good.
		1-800-327-7656 for Philip Hogue's book, No Such Thing.
		No Such Thing as Doomsday.
		How to Prepare for What's Coming, Folks.
		It's a big book, and it's worth it.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		And I heard Philip talk about the suitcase situation and the plutonium and etc.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
unidentified		Well, I read a lot of fiction, and one writer seems to think that perhaps maybe an alien could go into the future and stop those nuclear suitcases from going off and then return to the past, et cetera, et cetera.
unidentified		That's what you have involved in the Area 51 with those artificial aliens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, while that's an intriguing theory, I don't think I'd depend on it if I were anywhere near the suitcase.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How about you?
unidentified		Well, no one.
		No one.
		I mean, by the way, there would be possible a chain reaction if something this.
		We're talking about Y2K.
		If something like this went off, however, I'm a Christian and I don't believe it will go off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't think so?
unidentified		I think that except these days are short and there'll be no flesh saved.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so it is written.
		So it is written.
		Yep, I appreciate it, sir.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Philip Hoke.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Extinguish your radio for us.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very important.
unidentified		Okay, good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		I would like to know why he believes that we would go back to a feudal society.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't necessarily believe, I don't know that we're going to go back to a feudal society.
		We talked about the worst case scenario.
		And I can't tell you what the scenario is, but under the worst case scenario, potentially something like that could happen.
		You know, we are looking at, you know, we have such marvelous infrastructures, centralized infrastructures in this country, whether it's power, fuel, food distribution.
		And what we're saying is that Y2K threatens the stability of these infrastructures.
		There's other things that could threaten that stability, nuclear war, biological terrorism.
		There's a lot of things that could disrupt it.
		And what we're saying is there's a lot of vulnerability.
		We're addicted to these things, like the junkie down in downtown New York is addicted to heroin.
		And if it goes away, we're going to have major withdrawal symptoms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
		I mean, I have an ISDN line to get on the internet here.
		If my ISDN line goes down, it's like part of life has been ripped from me.
unidentified		But isn't there a good chance that we could move forward as a one-world government because of this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, actually, there is, but I wouldn't consider that to be a positive development, would you, Philip?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		No, I, you know, I don't really.
		The more, you know, if all you listen to is on the TV about the UN and how great it is and all these things, you know, it would sound, well, this is a positive thing.
		You know, this is our solution.
		But when you start looking into the nuts and bolts of what the U.N. stands for, it's I think I'd rather deal with nuclear war.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kind of a toss-up here, but.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I mean, they're pro-abortion.
		They're anti-family.
		You know, they're looking to abolish the rights for our Second Amendment rights.
		They're looking to usurp the authority of the parents over the children.
		They're looking to have mandatory government schools.
		You know, you're looking at the Orwellian robot society.
		That's what these people are moving towards.
		And they're looking at mandatory population reduction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nobody's ever accused you of being right-wing, have they?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Easy of the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Philip Hoag.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, gentlemen.
unidentified		How are we doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're doing reasonably well, I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
unidentified		Making it well, I guess.
unidentified		Listen, I, too, am a law enforcement officer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you are?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		And the county that I live in, I don't want to get specific with the name or anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how about the state?
unidentified		Kentucky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kentucky, all right.
unidentified		You know, they've been really laxadose about preparing for Y2K.
		There's nothing in the news about it, and they're not preparing at all for it.
		The question I have is, I have about a month's supply of food.
		I have a very abundant source of water.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then you're going to have to turn yourself in.
unidentified		I hope not.
		And I have wood-burning stove.
		What more do I need to prepare for?
		I guess for Phil, to answer that.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think you got a real good start on it.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		I mean, the other thing I would consider, do you have a source of lighting?
unidentified		Just the sunlight and candles.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, candles are good.
		Look into kerosene lamps.
		I'd recommend that you go out and buy an Aladdin lamp, but Y2K has put them about six months backlog on production.
		They're kind of hard to find.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are Aladdin lamps?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Aladdin lamp is a high-efficiency kerosene lamp.
		It puts out the maximum amount of lumens for the amount of kerosene.
		It puts out a very bright light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you another answer, and this is a plug, of course, but really these LED array lights are incredible because of the very, very tiny amount of current consumption they require to produce a fair amount of light.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in fact, in my chapter in the book on lighting, I talk about those LED.
		I got a picture of those LED lights in there.
		And then I get more sophisticated.
		I talk about, you know, I've got an extensive chapter on power generation systems And how you can do DC and efficiency and efficient AC lighting in your home.
		And, you know, I really move toward this idea of trying to develop some energy self-sufficiency because most of our technology and everything that we experience in our culture is based on power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm using Trace Inverters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if you know what those are.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, I've got pictures of them in my book.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		They're excellent products.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		90 plus percent efficient.
		Very efficient.
		People don't know the progress that has been made in power generation and conversion.
		It's been pretty spectacular, actually.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		In fact, Trace makes what you probably have there is the true sine wave inverter.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		You can run computers and electronic equipment off it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it is as stable as a good day from the power company.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Right, and the beauty of an inverter, an inverter is a little high-tech device which takes DC voltage out of a battery system and converts it into AC voltage, which we're all used to and we need for a lot of our equipment.
		And the problem with AC is you can't store it.
		And that's where batteries are so important.
		And I've got a very extensive chapter in my book about batteries and what's involved in a battery storage system.
		But the beauty of DC is we can store it in batteries.
		And we can pull it out and use it when we need it with an inverter or with direct DC type appliances like they use in RVs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		So there you are, caller.
		It sounds like you need to get a copy of his book.
unidentified		One more question, if I could.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Okay, besides the light on the Bajan preplay, what good would it do to have the radio if the power is out and the radio stations are not receiving power?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, most radio stations, I would say a majority, have emergency power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there are designated EBS, what used to be called EBS and something else now, stations that absolutely are required to be hardened and have emergency power.
unidentified		Broadcasting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And if that wasn't working for your local area, then the Beijing has shortwave, and you would definitely get some reception on the shortwave bands.
		Okay.
unidentified		God bless you, Jolie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, and take care.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on there with Philip Hoag.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Hi, this is Renee from California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Renee.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		How you doing?
		I just want to wish you and your family all my best wishes.
		I know you're going through some tough times, and we in California love you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And I want to ask Philip a question.
		Basically, what I'm really, really worried about lately has been the Second Amendment.
		And I think to create a UN type of government, you would have to, have to disarm the United States.
		So the United States is the key to the whole world government deal, or a UN-type government.
		And to do this, wouldn't you want some certain agencies or maybe someone to create certain instances where you hit people with their emotions and scare them to where you'd want to take their guns away and then have a big event where you can collect them under a martial law type situation?
		And I want to ask Philip, does he kind of wonder sometimes what's going on lately with all these attacks and the Second Amendment?
		In fact, there's if you go down to your local ASC office, Agricultural, the Forest Service, and what do they call it?
		It's the ASCS office.
		It's a federal agency under the Department of Interior.
		One of their duties under FEMA, I understand, is not only issuing ration coupons, but it's also gun collection centers.
		And you see, we see what happened in the Ukraine where the Russians, the Soviets created an artificial famine and starved out the Ukrainians that were resisting subjugation.
		And you understand, if you can control food, you can control people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And if you can control basically assault rifles, because, I mean, it's kind of hard to bring a handgun to a rifle fight.
		If you take rifles away from people, what defense would a person have against somebody just taking over the country?
		Not much.
		That's why it's a high priority.
		You know, I mean, let's look at this.
		We look back in history.
		There's been periods in American history where there's been a higher concentrations of guns per capita per citizen.
		And we have had lower crime rates.
unidentified		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Okay, and, you know, if we were really concerned and we compared apples for apples, we wouldn't be concentrating on guns.
		We'd be outlawing automobiles.
		Or cracking down on the actual criminal.
		Well, I mean, if there's a justification for kids getting killed by weapons, then we should make cars illegal.
		Exactly.
		But that's never going to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nope.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Appreciate the call, sir.
unidentified		I love you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's right on the money.
unidentified		Take care.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		First time caller line, your turn with Philip Pogue.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art and Philip.
		This is Tom from the Eugene area in Oregon.
		I have Philip's book, and I have two questions about shielding against electromagnetic particles.
		I think it's a great book.
		Full of good illustrations.
		My interest is kind of in shelters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really hard information is what's in that book.
unidentified		Oh, it's solid, terrific.
		I tried getting civil defense information elsewhere.
		I can't find it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Anyway, if you were in Russia, you'd have no problem.
		Really?
unidentified		My first question, in constructing an underground concrete shelter, would copper screening act as a sufficient EMP shield when covering the entire interior of the shelter?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		No, nothing sufficient.
		My understanding, everybody I've talked to, and the rebar in the steel reinforced concrete wouldn't give any effective shielding, nor does the earth overcover.
		What we did is we have a steel reinforced concrete barrel vault.
		And what we did is adjacent to the main structure, we Put in two steel tanks.
		One contains the engine room and one contains the radio room.
		And that was for a Faraday cage shielding.
		It was a complete steel tank.
		Now, the easiest and most cost-effective protection from electromagnetic pulse is redundancy.
		And the cheapest form of a Faraday cage is a galvanized steel garbage can with a tight-fitting lid.
		You take your spare radios, you put them in that garbage can, and you keep the lid on it tight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's a really good idea.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And you see, there's two things.
		One, electromagnetic pulse, it looks for an antenna.
		So that antenna could be an extension cord from your computer that is not even plugged into the wall.
		It could be the antenna off your radio.
		So if you have any extension cords or things like that and your item is not in a steel container, you should coil them up.
		You should try and minimize the antenna, disconnect the antenna.
		Also be aware that even though you have your computer turned off, your radio turned off, if an electromagnetic pulse spike collects on the telephone lines, the power distribution grid, it will jump across open switches.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And it's the first thing we would see in the event of a nuclear attack on this country because one of the advantages we have over the rest of the world, over the Russians and over the Red Chinese, is our computerized coordination and military control of our assault forces.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's the first thing they'd take out.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And so they have weapons in orbit right now.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		We wouldn't even know until the detonation occurred, and it would create a blinding and confusion factor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, wait a minute, Philip.
		There's treaties against that.
		You're telling me that people have broken that treaty and have nuclear weapons in orbit?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		They also have pictures in my book, illustrations from the Defense Department of their satellite kill weapons.
		And the first thing they'll do is go after our reconnaissance satellites.
		And, you know, and I've got a scenario in my book, a chapter on an attack on the U.S., a nuclear attack on the U.S., how, you know, I speculate that Yeltsin would call up and said, oh, there's been a terrible disaster in space.
		This space station has exploded.
		Please bear with us.
		And that's after they detonate a device over the North American continent about 100 to 200 miles up, and it blankets the entire North American continent with electromagnetic pulse.
		It burns out all unprotected electronics, creates mass confusion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, your garbage can idea is the best damn thing I've heard in a long time.
		I mean, really, putting a radio in a garbage can would indeed protect it from an EMP pulse.
		That's really a new one on me, and I'm going to file that one away.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's low-tech, it's cheap, and it works.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And I never thought about that.
		Cool.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Philip No Doomsday Hoag.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, I'm Colin from Nevada.
		Art, a couple of times you mentioned a book called Lucifer's Hammer about when a comet strikes the earth and the effect that it has and how realistic it is.
		You haven't mentioned the rest of the book is about just the same thing as the total disaster of Y2K.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please don't go on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My wife is currently reading Lucifer's Hammer, and I don't want you to tell the end of it.
unidentified		It's a good book, but it's a good scenario as Y2K only is unplanned.
unidentified		It's an excellent story on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, you're dead right.
unidentified		Yeah, and another thing is when next year sometime in the future, someone's going to come up and say, you know, the worst thing about it is that we didn't appreciate what we had.
		And so what everyone should do now is give thanks like on Thanksgiving.
		You can go down and buy an ice cream when you want.
		You can get gasoline when you want at a decent price.
		You can turn a flick a switch and you got electricity, everything.
		Appreciate everything that we have right now so that next year sometime someone's going to say, oh yeah, I listened to Art Bell Show and this man said, hey, appreciate it now.
		And so we are appreciating it while we have it.
		And the other thing is the first battle of the American Revolution was fought when the British came after the Americans' guns and ammunition at Lexington and Concord.
		And that is what's going to happen here, that I and a whole lot of other people are going to fight if they come after my guns and ammo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you said it.
unidentified		There's no choice.
unidentified		There's no choice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand, sir.
		I appreciate your call.
		Thank you very much.
		We're going to take a break here.
unidentified		I feel it in my fingers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I feel it too.
		Philip Hogue.
		Philip, there are a lot of people out there, you know, who, you know, I remember the old days of the Cold War and we were all contemplating the possibility of the planet destroying itself.
		And a lot of people said, look, I wouldn't want to live through that.
		You know, if I knew it was coming, I'd go outside, make peace with myself, throw my arms into the air and say, here I am, kaboom.
		And they'd be out of it.
		But you don't have that mentality.
		Nevertheless, a lot of people do.
		What do you say to them?
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think, number one, we need to have a will to be.
		It's the basic instinct of life, and it's the true sign of a disintegrating society when people lose the will to be.
		I think the other thing, too, is if we look at bad experiences in our own personal lives, I know in my own personal experience, in the long run, most of these bad experiences turned out to be some of the most spiritually benefiting experiences in my life.
		That, you know, it happened in situations when I was going in the wrong direction, and it stopped me and turned me around and put me in a positive course.
		And I think we need to look at our country in the same way.
		You know, we're definitely going in the wrong track in the wrong direction.
		You just look at the crime rate.
		You look at teen suicide.
		You look at abortion.
		We've got enough problems that the natural course of spiritual Evolution is going to run us into some rough water here.
		That's, in my personal belief and experience, life is going to bring us to the point that we're going to have to confront our problems.
		And it may not be comfortable.
		But, you know, I have children.
		I see a lot of beautiful people out there, people that have really beautiful children.
		And it's not that I fear death.
		There are some people that are into a survival mentality, like they're out to save their skin.
		My attitude comes more from a sense of mission.
		I think we have a responsibility to life, to our children, to give them an opportunity and a chance to life.
		You know, I think life is a precious commodity.
		And getting back to the old nuclear, you know, everybody's been programmed to this idea that nuclear war is unsurvivable.
		It just ain't true, period.
		They mix the whole idea of Chernobyl with nuclear war, and people think that if we have nuclear war, the planet's going to be sterilized for years.
		For thousands of years, it just is not true.
		Radiation decays very quickly.
		You just need to have a little radiation shielding over your head and be able to protect yourself for about two weeks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know about that, Philip.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		A nuclear power plant is another story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, if there was a full exchange of nuclear weapons...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The nuclear power plants would all be destroyed.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		That's a problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, it's a problem.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		That's a real problem, and I won't deny that.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Nuclear power plants are a serious problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about the storage yet?
		We have all of this horrendously poisonous, high-level radiation that would get dispersed even if nothing else happened.
		Well, you know what, they're telling us here in Nevada at Yocha Mountain, they're telling us we will have to safely store the waste materials that are now scattered about for tens of thousands of years.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And I agree, that is a real problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		But the byproducts of the detonation of a nuclear weapon decays drastically.
		I've got all the charts.
		I've got all the certified information on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It depends a little bit on the weapon use.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They can either be fairly clean or they can be really dirty.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Right.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		But you have to understand also that from the point of view of the Russians and the Chinese and their strategy of warfighting, they're not looking to completely decimate, destroy the United States and make the country uninhabitable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, they want to be able to come in and live in Kansas City.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Not only that, but their whole concept of war is nuclear weapons are just one part of the strategy of war.
		They definitely include in their warfighting strategy the invasion and occupation and the use of conventional forces alongside nuclear devices.
		And they're not going to take out nuclear power plants and contaminate areas that they won't be able to use and occupy in the future.
		I mean, that's my own personal opinion.
		You know, the things that they're going to be after are command and control and military-industrial infrastructure and communication nodes.
		And, you know, those are their primary target areas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		The only problem, though, is that once an exchange of that magnitude got started, every city I remember long ago, over about 50,000 was targeted.
		And I think it's probably every city down to about 25,000 by now.
		And once it got started, it would be hard to, I'm one of those people who thinks that once it got started, it would go all the way.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Well, but the only problem is we've got Bill Clinton there.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		He made the unilateral decision here that we're going to absorb the first hit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard that.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, they're even talking about taking the circuit cards out of the ICBM silos up here in Montana and moving them 500 miles away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, what a good idea.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		So that we won't have any accidental launches.
unidentified		Great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that's like saying, take the bullets out of your gun and move them to the other side of town.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And they've also made it more complicated for the sub-commanders to make launches.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they used to be autonomous.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
philip hoag ▲ ● ▼		And the whole beauty of the submarine triad of our defensive or offensive system was even if they took out our silos, our fixed silos, those subs would be cruising around out there.

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