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Aug. 17, 1999 - Art Bell

02:53:44

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Bruce Friedrich - People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals

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	Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, the night featuring Coast to Coast AM from August
	17th, 19- From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning, as the case may be, and welcome to another edition of whatever it is we do in the middle of the night from the Tahitian and Hawaiian island chains out west eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, Tally Ho and St.
	Thomas.
	South into South America, North all the way to the Pole, and worldwide on the Internet!
	Thanks to Broadcast.com and the Intel Corporation for what is known as G2, which means you can go to my website, download the G2 player, free of charge, insert into thy computer, then come back to my website and click on Streaming Video, and you will see me doing the show live, Sort of a talking head affair, as it were.
	A lot of people seem to like it.
	Now, we did begin this as an experimental thing, and it's really, uh, already gone past its experimental time, and we may or may not, uh, keep doing it very much longer.
	I'm not sure.
	We'll find out.
	We'll decide.
	I'll decide.
	I guess that's something that I've, I've gotta chew over, but, uh, we are now well past, you know, the experimental agreed-upon time to do this.
	Now, there, there, Well, there's some things I can't talk about, actually, from Intel Corporation, and they're tempting me into staying on further.
	We'll see.
	The top story, of course, the earthquake in Turkey, which has now killed more than 2,000 people.
	It was 7.8 on the Richter scale, and any time you get up toward an 8 earthquake, You can be pretty sure that a lot of buildings are going to come down and a lot of people are going to die inside the buildings and that of course is what has occurred.
	A very very strong earthquake followed by the way by about a 5.0 in the Bay Area and I guess it did sway office buildings in San Francisco rattled the homes about 50 miles south in San Jose so I don't know, they come in, earthquakes come in waves, and they occur at disparate parts of the world as well.
	The Cassini probe should have come as close to Earth as it is going to come
	at about 828 here in the West, 1128 in the East, and should now be on its way on out.
	And thank God it went alright.
	But NASA officials did say there was a 1 in 1.2 million chance of an accidental re-entry.
	And the only problem that I have with that, and that Dr. Kaku and others had with it, was that occasionally somebody hits the jackpot.
	Oh, by the way, Gary North is coming up on Thursday night.
	I know a lot of you have been waiting for that.
	And there's quite a bit of Y2K news to give to you.
	Now, the Global Positioning System receivers, or GPS receivers, may begin to have a real big problem.
	Very shortly now.
	As a matter of fact, I think the 21st of, make that the 22nd of August.
	The end of the week rollover is going to cause some problems on this particular one.
	And though the satellites themselves are okay and the ground tracking stations are going to be okay,
	an awful lot of consumer GPS receivers are not going to be okay.
	And in cases where safety is an issue, any of you out there who are using GPS receivers,
	you know, for safety reasons, are going to want to pay particular attention to this.
	This is not a joke and a lot of receivers are simply going to give you inaccurate information.
	And if you're using it for navigation, you're in trouble.
	So you had better be sure that you have a GPS receiver that will continue to be okay.
	from the associated press and i was a california only
	Iowa, Nebraska, and North Dakota have completely tested their computer systems and are ready, they say, to face the new year without fear of potentially dangerous year 2000 glitches.
	Now, think about that a little bit, folks.
	Think about that.
	Of all the states in the Union, only Iowa, Nebraska, and North Dakota are set.
	The rest of the states now have 139 days to guarantee reliability of their systems that run everything from law enforcement to utilities and traffic lights, you name it.
	And of course, right now, as we well know, nobody really can predict what might or might not occur when that magic gong goes off.
	And of course, by the way, I'm going to be here On New Year's Eve, I will be here on New Year's Eve, beginning the broadcast about two hours early.
	Just because I want to be here.
	I think that it's a Friday night, somebody might correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's a Friday night, Saturday morning, so I'm going to make arrangements to be here.
	Now, from Variety Magazine, NBC apparently, Looking to take advantage of the millennium madness, is working on its own Y2K, a disaster motion picture that imagines near-apocalyptic results brought about by the much-hyped computer bug.
	The thriller stars Ken Olin from L.A.
	Doctors as a techie trying to save the U.S.
	from disasters caused by computer failures as 1999 becomes 2000.
	The picture is the only announced broadcast project to date capitalizing on concerns over the Y2K bug, which machines interpret the date of 1-1-0-0 as January 1st, 1900.
	So only one movie.
	Gary North here, Thursday night.
	The Associated Press, a national Get this, Ice Center, I didn't know we had a National Ice Center, but we do, I guess, issued a warning Tuesday that an iceberg just about the size, they say, of the state of Rhode Island threatens shipping now in the ocean between South America and the Antarctic.
	The iceberg named, they named the big ones, I guess, H, make that B as in boy, 10A, they ought to give them real names, Harry.
	Harry the Iceberg.
	Measures 24 by 48 miles.
	Wow!
	And is in the shipping lanes now.
	In the vicinity of latitude 58 degrees west.
	36 minutes south.
	Longitude 57 degrees west.
	By the way, it's drifting southeast.
	From 7 to 9 miles per day.
	That's quite fast.
	Very, very interesting.
	And here is a release from the Goddard Space Flight Center that has been not, somehow has not been reported in the regular media, and I don't know why.
	But NASA has a balloon, and I mean a big balloon, that they're putting into the upper atmosphere.
	This is a 60-story high balloon, which is going to go directly to the fringes of the Earth's upper atmosphere to collect, are you ready for this, Particles of some of the rarest stuff in the universe, anti-matter, and just possibly evidence the entire anti-galaxies, or that entire anti-galaxies exist.
	Check it out.
	Now, why is CNN not running a story on this?
	NASA's going to put a 60-story high balloon, as high as a balloon can go, I guess, in our atmosphere, to go up there and get anti-matter.
	And I've got to have, you know, I've got the website where the release is.
	In fact, as a matter of fact, Donald Savage, who I once had on the show from NASA, is the person who did the release in Washington, D.C.
	Now, what happens if they manage to get antimatter and bring it back?
	I don't know, I don't think they know either.
	But they're saying here, that in fact it really could mean anti-galaxies exist.
	Now can you wrap your mind around that one, an anti-galaxy?
	Absolutely incredible.
	All right, we'll get to more in a moment.
	We're going to have open lines and by the way at the top of the hour for a while
	we're going to have a rep... do you remember that phone call?
	A lot of you will not because it was the final phone call that we had on the show, I don't know, a couple of weeks ago.
	Or was it even less?
	Last week, maybe.
	And it was a lady.
	And the lady and I really, really, really went around and around about vegetarianism.
	And she was talking to me about meat, and how terrible it was to eat meat, and I was telling her, well, vegetables scream when you bite into them.
	Don't you feel guilty when you bite into that, you know, into that carrot, and the scream, silent all be it to our ears, shrieks through the house as your carrot wrists in agony, a heart twitching death as you sink your teeth into its orange body.
	Anyway, a representative from PETA faxed me and said their phones went nuts the next day.
	People for the ethical treatment of animals, PETA.
	And so, Bruce Friedrich, who we've had on before, once before actually, he was in a debate at that time, and tonight he's going to be in a kind of a debate, too, with me, I guess.
	is going to come on the air and it's going to be kind of fun.
	They are, of course, a very controversial activist organization
	and I want to talk to them. I want to talk to Bruce, myself, and so we're going to do a little bit of that at the top of
	the hour.
	I'm going to be talking to Bruce, myself, and so we're going to do a little bit of that at the top of the hour.
	The audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM has a new name.
	Coast Insider.
	You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price.
	The package includes podcasting, which automatically downloads shows for you, and the iPhone app.
	You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows.
	That's over a thousand shows for you to collect and enjoy.
	If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
	Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up.
	Looking for the truth? You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	When you look at what's going on around this planet, it's almost as if someone has got a playbook to try to control
	all these countries all of a sudden.
	I've always said that not everything is a conspiracy, but a lot of it is.
	You know, when you start looking into things, there's only certain set of conclusions you can reach.
	And unfortunately, this is one of them.
	You know, it's very, very hard not to see things like that when you start looking at things in a larger picture.
	Coast to Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
	Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone
	in a quick and streamlined fashion.
	And if you're a Coast insider, you'll have our great subscriber features right on your phone,
	including the ability to listen to live programs and stream previous shows.
	No special app is necessary to enjoy our new mobile site.
	Simply visit coasttocoastam.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
	I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
	Governments won't do that and the reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
	They think that they'll lose control of us if we know.
	If you actually truly believe that we were being visited by extraterrestrials
	and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that
	government throws out all the time?
	Absolutely not!
	You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's gotta be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
	And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
	So, the bottom line is, government will never, ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
	The new subscription service of Coast to Coast AM has a new name, Coast Insider.
	You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price, just 15 cents a day when you sign up for one year.
	The package includes Podcaster, which offers the convenience of having shows downloaded automatically to your computer or MP3 player, and the iPhone app, with live and on-demand programs.
	You'll also get our amazing download library of free full years of shows.
	Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure.
	Plus, you'll get streamed and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bell's Summer in Time shows and two weekly classics.
	And as a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Norrie and special guests.
	If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
	Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up today.
	Now we take you back to the night of August 17, 1999, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Let me talk to you about this now.
	It is, um, it's an amazing photograph, actually.
	And at first glance, I know what the pixel people out there are going to do.
	You're going to pick it apart, and that's fine.
	You're welcome to pick it apart.
	Maybe it deserves to be picked apart, but we looked at this very carefully.
	There is a story and a website associated with it, and we've got a link for you.
	But it is a very clear photograph taken, I believe, in the Andes.
	And it seems to show, I say again, it seems to show a light, which may be a portal, in the side of a mountain in Peru.
	Now, first glance, and you're going to say, oh come on, it was taken through a window.
	But the refracted light is not that of a lens flare, because there would be streaking.
	When you get a lens flare, you always get this streaking when it's through glass and there is none of that.
	The photograph of the mountain itself is very sharp, very clear.
	And it really does look to me like it could be a portal.
	And it is so described on the website.
	Take a look for yourself.
	Let me know what you think.
	By the way, it is a new feature on our website.
	When you now get on, instead of going down to the What's New, you're going to see something that says, For Tonight's Program.
	And there is going to be information on You know, something like this that I might have for you, this incredible photograph, and information on Bruce Friedrich, the guest for tonight.
	So, there's kind of a new section on the website, a new feature on the website called For Tonight's Program.
	And I would be interested, and you pixel people, feel free to call up and say, oh, come on, Art, it's a lens flare, and of course it might be.
	But when you really look carefully at it, it doesn't have the attributes of a lens flare.
	And it might be exactly what it says it is.
	So there you have it.
	Now listen to me, I'm telling you one of the more interesting things that you can do is to go to my website and download the SETI at Home program.
	Team Art Bell is now 6,000 members strong.
	The next closest team has about 2,000 members.
	So we are now about easily three times the size of the next closest competitor.
	This is something you download for your computer and you install it in about five minutes.
	Boom!
	It goes in like that.
	And it uses your computer during times when you're not.
	It acts exactly like a screensaver when you move the mouse.
	It goes away and waits until you're done.
	And what it does is download information from Arecibo, the world's largest radio telescope.
	It processes the information and sends it back to the mainframe computer.
	And it's something you can do to help look for E.T.
	And so I hope as many of you as possible will go up there and get that, and then, by the way, come back and join Team Art Bell.
	That's my team.
	All of you out there.
	And we are now the largest in the nation, which means, to me, that we just might be the ones to discover the signal.
	The signal.
	I've got a little, going into the break here at the bottom of the hour, I want you to listen very carefully to this song and tell me who it is and whether you've heard it before.
	It's one of those songs that's driving me absolutely out of my mind.
	See if you've heard this.
	Falling in love was the last thing I had on my mind.
	Who is this, folks?
	Holding you is the warmth that I thought I could never find.
	Been going through my mind all weekend long.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 17, 1999.
	I turn around and look at the questions that keep going through my mind.
	Hey babe, is there a time?
	Is there a time to wait?
	I'm falling in love with you all the same.
	Is there a time?
	Is there a time to wait?
	I'm falling in love with you all the same.
	I've seen visions of someone like you in my life.
	Oh A love that's strong reaching out holding me through the
	dark sky Do you ever leave my side?
	Just trying to survive Do you ever leave my side?
	I'll stay by your side Do you ever leave my side?
	I don't want to cry I just can't find the answers to the questions that you've
	put through my mind Look behind me
	In your way I see you every morning
	Outside the restaurant Can you hear me? No!
	I love this day.
	I'm...
	I found this place I found this night
	I'm gonna be without my water Lonely day, lonely night
	Why would I be without my woman?
	Lonely day, lonely night Lonely night
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 17th, 1999.
	I'll tell you everybody, I've really been on a music kick lately.
	I've been collecting the music of my youth.
	I'm having a lot of fun doing it, too.
	And so that's some of what you're hearing, but... You know this other song?
	It's been driving me abs... And I've got... I've got it!
	I mean, I played it for you, right?
	Going into the last, uh, break.
	I played it for you, but I can't figure out who it is, when it was sung, or anything else.
	But I got my hands on it.
	It's driving me crazy.
	Please.
	You know, these things, they get to you.
	Nothing you can do.
	Something, maybe it's piano.
	I love piano.
	I don't know.
	But this one's driving me crazy.
	Anyway, one of you out there I'm sure will be able to help out.
	On the first time caller line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi there.
	How are you doing?
	Extinguish your radio, please.
	Thank you.
	Even though I love that song.
	That's The Babies.
	The Babies?
	The Babies, yes.
	John Waite on lead vocal.
	He's got another hit, that song Missing You.
	That's a great song.
	Do you have any idea when he recorded that?
	Like 79 or 80.
	I picked it up.
	I was in the search, as I said, for my I am a musician. I have been playing guitar and writing
	songs since I was six. I am in my forties.
	Oh, yeah.
	You get a song like that and it starts driving you nuts.
	Oh, totally, totally.
	And you say it's The Babies.
	The Babies, B-A-B-Y-S.
	And the name of it again?
	Broken Heart.
	Oh, wait, the album's Broken Heart.
	The song is Isn't It Time.
	Isn't It Time?
	Yeah.
	See, I wouldn't have guessed either one.
	The guitar player was Wally Stocker, bass player was John Waite, who also sang lead.
	Boy, you're really good.
	Michael Corby on keyboards, and the drummer went on to play with Rod Stewart.
	You're really good.
	Thank you.
	You should be on a quiz program.
	I'd love that.
	You know, they ought to have one for rock and roll.
	See, I just gave away a million dollar idea.
	Yeah, there you go.
	You just play a few bars of a song.
	And the person has to name the group.
	Tell us which guitar player has gone where and all the way.
	Well, I did a short stint in Arizona on a rock station out there.
	I didn't know what I was doing.
	I mean, it was something I always wanted to do, and the opportunity came up, so I went for it.
	But I didn't realize that they didn't have liner notes and stuff for you.
	I mean, I had to pull all that stuff out of thin air.
	Oh, I pull everything I have out of the air.
	It serves me well.
	My wife is your biggest fan in the whole world and she's sitting right here with a grin the size of Wyoming on her face.
	Really?
	Her name's Paulette.
	Paulette, thank you for being my largest fan in all the world.
	You want to let her say something?
	Sure, here, let me hear it.
	Hand her the phone.
	Hi Art. Hello Paulette, how are you? I'm fine.
	You wanted to get through so bad so we could tell you who that was.
	Well he saved my life. I've never heard of the Babies.
	Oh you haven't? No. Oh they're great.
	Well that is some great tune. Yeah it is.
	They had a lot of hits. A lot of hits.
	Was that their biggest hit? Pardon me?
	Ask them if that was their biggest hit.
	We love your show, and I listen to you as much as I can.
	Well, Paulette, it's great to have you there.
	And where is it you are?
	We're in Fulton, California.
	Fulton, California.
	All right.
	Yes.
	Well, bless your heart for being out there, honey.
	Oh, thanks.
	All right?
	Okay.
	Take care and good night, and thank your husband again.
	That was The Babies?
	Now, I was in Rock and Roll for a lot of years, folks.
	20 years.
	Twenty years I did that, and so I, you know, I remember almost everything, but somehow that one escaped me.
	I was no doubt out of the country, but there's no excuse, because I'm still in Rock and Roll.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art.
	How are you today?
	I'm just fine.
	Where are you?
	Uh, this is Tony calling from London, Kentucky, listening to you on the big one, WTM 1100 in Cleveland.
	That's the one.
	That's big, all right.
	It's a great station.
	They always love to play and like to say, go Browns!
	They're going to have a good year.
	Yeah, King Couch is going to be excellent for them.
	I've watched him for years.
	As a matter of fact, I watched him in high school.
	I agree with you.
	He's going to have a hell of a year.
	Oh yeah, I can't wait to go to the first game.
	I know, real life begins when the NFL comes back.
	I've been watching most of the pre-season games just to get my blood going.
	I did.
	I'm so excited to have football back in Cleveland.
	You know, that's just wonderful.
	About the baby.
	I believe they do have a CD, the Babies Anthology, the Raised Kids.
	Really?
	Yes.
	Well, that particular song, you know how it is, I've not heard it before, and it infected me like a virus, and I've been listening to it all weekend long.
	I have songs do that to me all the time, unfortunately.
	Also, I was calling you, you know, talking about changes in the Earth and the weather and things like that.
	Oh, yes.
	When you talk about the ozone, And the problems with that. I think the earth is actually
	with these storms, these strong storms we've seen, I think the earth is actually trying to heal itself.
	Because lightning produces ozone.
	Yes, although, you know, I saw a very interesting story the other day, indicating that there's actually less lightning.
	And do you know why?
	No.
	Because the Air Force is dropping a great deal of chaff.
	You know what chaff is?
	Uh, never heard of that.
	Okay, chaff is something that airplanes drop to foil missile radars and that sort of thing.
	You know, it's like little tiny pieces of aluminum or metal.
	Millions of them that they drop.
	Yeah.
	And they're actually suggesting that the dropping of this chaff is providing a conduit Well, that doesn't shock me.
	the air to the ground that is preventing as much lightning as we used to have.
	Well, that doesn't shock me. The government's screwing something else up.
	It's technically possible, that's for sure.
	The Air Force actually did a report on it, and I don't know whether it's really a factor, but they're saying it might
	be.
	Well, that wouldn't surprise me in the least little bit.
	So in other words, what we're doing is shorting out the atmosphere.
	U.S.
	government at its best.
	At its best, sir.
	Thank you very, very much for your call.
	And that would work.
	Kind of like the new bomb they have, right?
	You know about the new graphite bomb, the one they dropped on, uh... In Alaska, Lufrakis, we had, uh...
	Did you short out the electrical system without permanently damaging it?
	Colonel Alexander called and talked quite a bit about that during his last visit.
	Same effect, except that with chaff, it literally extends from relatively high in the atmosphere to the ground, providing a line of conductivity.
	Interesting.
	Now we take you back to the night of August 17th, 1999.
	On our bell, somewhere in time.
	Rest of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi, Alex.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I was just calling to see, uh, have you heard anything about Mount Rainier?
	Mount Rainier?
	Right.
	In Washington?
	Well, I mean, I'm well aware of Mount Rainier, but... Yeah, well, I heard that the ice on the mountain was actually starting to melt, so we're expecting an eruption, like, at any time.
	And if they said if it goes off, it's gonna be, like, bigger than St.
	Helens.
	Yeah, Mount Rainier would be a big one were it to go, but you're telling me the ice is melting.
	Yes, I'm telling you, they are saying on the news up there, a friend of mine lives up there, he's been telling me that for months.
	How high is Mount Rainier?
	Oh, I don't know.
	It's like one of the largest mountains on the Pacific Northwest, I know.
	So there's no way, uh, at any time during the year the ice should melt?
	I mean, it is August.
	No, no, it's supposed to stay covered with ice all the time, but it's starting to melt, so they expect it to go like at any time.
	That's probably a bad sign, huh?
	Yeah, really, no kidding.
	So I was just wondering why we haven't heard anything about that, and if you've heard anything about it.
	Do you live near it?
	I was just wondering if maybe the rumbling in San Francisco, they say there's fault lines that are showing pictures of it?
	Well, they said it was San Andreas.
	Okay, well, Mount Rainier is connected to all the fault lines going through Oregon and Northern California.
	Oh, I'm sure.
	Do you live near Mount Rainier?
	No, I live in Sacramento.
	Oh.
	But a friend of mine is in Seattle, or actually in Puyallup, which is like right at the, almost the base of Mount Rainier.
	Well maybe somebody from that area will call in and tell us.
	I wish they would, because I would like to hear something.
	I heard a blurb on a local news station about the ice melting.
	Yeah, if I were to be living at the base of that, and I looked up and I saw ice melting that never melts, I'd be worried.
	All right, thank you very much.
	Listen, you do a great job.
	Keep on going.
	Thank you, and take care.
	And of course, the big earthquake, 7.8, and that is big in Turkey.
	The death toll there is going to go a lot higher.
	The initial death toll reported was 300.
	And I notice that within 24 hours it went to 2,000, and you can expect it to go beyond that.
	Terrible, terrible earthquake.
	Maybe it's beginning to heat up again in the earthquake category.
	5.0 in the Bay Area.
	5.0, not too bad.
	But you always wonder, you know, precursor.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	How you doing?
	I'm doing.
	Is this on?
	It is.
	Okay, how you doing?
	I don't know if you know it, but VH1 has something called Rock and Roll Jeopardy.
	They do?
	Yes, they do.
	I figured.
	There's hardly anything new under the sun.
	So in other words, they do exactly that.
	They play a little bit of a tune.
	Right.
	And then people have to come up with the name, the artist, probably where the guitar player is now in the world, that kind of stuff.
	Is that what they do?
	Yeah.
	I just finished reading Richard Belzer's book.
	What a good book.
	Excellent book.
	I agree with you.
	I love the way he puts things across.
	It's funny too.
	Is it?
	Yeah, I think so.
	Very good book.
	Well, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
	Okay, Art.
	Good to talk to you.
	Now, wait a minute.
	Hold on there.
	Just a minute.
	Let me try something here.
	I'm going to play just a couple of bars of something, and I'm going to see if you can get it, alright?
	Okay.
	Are you ready?
	Yeah.
	Here it comes.
	That's all you get.
	I hardly even heard it.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	Alright, let me give it to you.
	I'm going to give it to you again.
	You ready?
	Okay.
	Here we go.
	Did you just do that?
	That's more than I gave you the first time.
	Oh.
	I'll give you a hint. I play it as bumper music occasionally.
	You're drawing an absolute blank, aren't you?
	Yes, at this point in time.
	If you could possibly win a million dollars by naming that tune, what would you say?
	I'd be in a lot of trouble.
	You wouldn't even guess?
	Uh...
	I think I know it.
	Yes?
	It's right there on the chip.
	You need just a little more?
	Just a little more.
	Alright, just a little more then.
	That's all you get.
	Nope, nope, I don't know it.
	Well, there goes a million.
	Alright, thank you for the call and have a very good morning.
	Of course it's Crystal Gale.
	Right, you've heard me play this.
	So, MTV does that, huh?
	It figures.
	The rest of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Uh, hi Art.
	Hello.
	This is Bert from Berkeley, California.
	Bert from Berkeley.
	I was the one who spoke with you the night we had the problem with our radio station out here.
	Oh, yes, indeed.
	I trust that PPFA is back on the air as annoyingly normal, right?
	Well, yeah, actually absolutely normal in the sense that we got major concessions from the board so that we were not only reinstalled in our building and are back on the air, but the gag rule was lifted, so we are now able to I think that is the best way to do it.
	I think that is the best way to do it.
	I think that is the best way to do it.
	Well, it has galvanized the support in the community here for the radio station.
	I also wanted to mention to you about the babies.
	That song would have been from, he said 1979, 1980, definitely 1978 at the latest, maybe
	1977.
	Right.
	I remember that because I was going through something at that time, you know how you associate
	songs with certain...
	As a matter of fact, it's so serious for me that when I hear a certain song, I actually
	see a picture in my mind.
	Yeah.
	I can re-feel emotions and feelings that I had.
	I mean, even when you were playing that song, that really took me back because that song haunted me when it was out.
	Really?
	Oh, absolutely.
	That was really one of the more...
	I know, I've been playing it all weekend long, again and again and again.
	I knew right away as soon as you said it.
	In fact, when you played that other song, your bumper song, when you played it the first time and you only played it for about one second, I recognized it as one of the songs that you play.
	Really?
	I didn't remember the name of it, but I knew right away which song it was.
	You didn't get it, huh?
	Because I heard you play it before.
	I immediately recognized it.
	Alright, I'm going to give you one then.
	This is going to be, uh, if you don't get this, I mean if you don't get this, you've got nothing.
	You ready?
	I'll probably get it.
	Go ahead.
	Alright, here we go.
	What do you get?
	Uh, pretty woman.
	I'm glad I didn't have the million up for you.
	This is a little hard to put into words, but has anybody on your show, speaking from a metaphysical standpoint, talked about the fact that some things of a phenomenal nature have only a relative reality?
	Some things of a phenomenal nature only have a relative reality.
	What do you mean by that?
	Okay, what I'm saying is that, well, for example, there was a book out called The Holographic Universe.
	I would have loved for you to have interviewed the author, but unfortunately he has died.
	Well, that doesn't rule out an interview.
	But what he talks about in that book, and I've heard this from other sources too, is the fact that a lot of so-called reality is a holographic I think it's a very important thing to do, and I think it's
	a very important thing to do.
	I think it's a very important thing to do.
	Yeah, sure.
	And a more perfect example would be UFOs.
	And that explains why we have these sudden, tremendous showings of UFOs, and then it all lets up.
	Right.
	And it also explains why one never lands on the White House lawn, because they really only have a relative reality.
	Although, with my program, and the millions of Listeners that I have, it could be that if we did another grand experiment, we could cause one to land on the South Lawn.
	But then you would really want to second-guess yourself, because you're not really sure that you want to do that.
	No, not when there's a possibility that Hillary would come out and greet whoever it is who landed on behalf of all mankind.
	But you'd have a certain responsibility.
	Yeah, they're talking about a village or something and they'd zap the entire planet.
	It would take a pretty powerful focusing to... Well, I've got a lot of listeners.
	Oh, yeah, I know.
	It's very tempting.
	All right, sir.
	Thank you very, very much for the call.
	And here's another one that I really like.
	I should have used that as one of my tunes.
	Maybe some night we'll do that.
	That'd be a lot of fun, wouldn't it?
	Alright, we'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 17th, 1999.
	If you love her then you must send her somewhere where she's never been before!
	Worn out braces and worn and gazed at home gets you where you want to go!
	No!
	Birds of love, soft and tender won't wither!
	You oughta know by now!
	In the treetop When the wind blows
	The cradle will rock The rock of I-80
	In the treetop When the wind blows
	Mmmmm Well Jack be nimble, Jack be quick
	Jack jumped over the can of ticks He jumped so high up above
	He landed in the cradle of love Well rock-a-bye baby
	In the treetop When the wind blows
	The cradle will rock The rock of I-80
	In the treetop When the wind blows
	I diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle The cow jumped over the moon
	And on her way down, she met a turtle dove Said, let's go rockin' in the cradle of love
	We'll rock-a-bye, baby, in the treetop When the wind blows, the cradle will rock
	So rock-a-bye, baby Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in
	Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired August 17th, 1999.
	Here's another one that's driving me nuts.
	Absolutely crazy.
	There's something about this tune.
	Not this part, but the... the... the clincher line, whatever people in music call it.
	This part.
	We'll rockabye, baby, in the treetop When the wind blows, the cradle will rock
	We'll rockabye, baby, in the treetop You'll see
	It'll start going through your head, again and again and again and again, like a virus.
	Well, it was about a week ago, I guess, or so, and I had this call from this lady, and it was the end of the program, so a lot of you out there will not have heard it.
	She was a veggie-tarian.
	And she was, uh, she was very enthusiastic.
	Although, I guess, The PETA people thought that she didn't deliver the message quite the way they would have had her deliver it.
	They got a whole bunch of calls, and so I'm gonna just for fun have Bruce Friedrich on here in a minute.
	I'm behind in commercials, because I got so interested in my music, I'm behind.
	And so I'm gonna have to catch up.
	Bruce Friedrich is the spokesperson for PETA, which is the organization known as People Eating Tasty Animals.
	No.
	People for the ethical treatment of animals, actually.
	And so we're going to talk about steaks and burgers and hot dogs.
	Spam.
	Oh, we're going to talk about all kinds of vegetables.
	We're going to talk about... We're going to talk about all of this for a little while anyway, and Bruce was with us one time before, and he was on there for four hours debating You will recall a kind of a mountain man that we had on at the time.
	So, I'll tell you more about Bruce and PETA and we'll get them on the air here in a moment.
	Thanks for watching.
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	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
	I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
	Governments won't do that and the reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
	They think that they'll lose control of us if we know.
	If you actually truly believe that we were being visited by extraterrestrials
	and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that
	government throws out all the time?
	Absolutely not!
	You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's gotta be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
	And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
	So, the bottom line is, government will never, ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
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	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	When you look at what's going on around this planet, it's almost as if someone has got a playbook to try to control all these countries all of a sudden.
	I've always said that not everything is a conspiracy, but a lot of it is.
	You know, when you start looking into things, there's only certain set of conclusions you can reach, and unfortunately, this is one of them.
	You know, it's very, very hard not to see things like that.
	When you start looking at things, you know, The audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM has a new name, Coast Insider.
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	now we take you back to the night of august seventeenth nineteen ninety nine
	on our bill somewhere in time bruce friedman
	as vegetarian campaign coordinator and general spokesperson for people for the ethical
	treatment of animals peter The largest animal rights organization in the whole world.
	Bruce Friedrich can be found in schools, universities, civic clubs, speaking about animal liberation and vegetarianism.
	Bruce has debated animal experimenters, furriers, meat trade officials on various local and national radio programs.
	His work on behalf of vegetarianism and animal rights has made headlines across the country, including the Wall Street Journal, LA Times, New York Times, Washington Post, USA Today, so forth and so on.
	Now, before coming to PETA in 1996, Bruce spent more than six years working in a shelter for homeless families and soup kitchens in inner-city Washington, D.C.
	Bruce continues to coordinate PETA's monthly human outreach efforts in the local community.
	Bruce graduated Phi Beta Kappa from Grinnell College in Iowa with majors in English and Economics, minors in Religious Studies.
	He received numerous awards including the Gilbert Award for Original Research in the Field of Economics.
	Bruce believes, as author and civil rights activist Alice Walker said, quote, The animals of the world were not made for humans any more than black people were made for white or women created for men.
	End quote.
	What the hell was that?
	Bruce 29 lives in Norfolk, Virginia.
	The animals of the world were not made for humans.
	Any more than black people were made for white or women created for men.
	Hey Bruce, how are you doing?
	I'm doing great Art, thanks so much for inviting me to be on, it's absolutely my pleasure.
	Um, this quote, Alice Walker's quote, the animals of the world were not made for humans.
	Any more than black people were made for white or women created for men.
	Yeah, basically she's summarizing the concept of speciesism.
	And what speciesism says is that if the factor you're determining is pain,
	in other words, somebody's right to be free from pain or free from exploitation at the hands of others,
	the only relevant factor is that being's capacity to feel pain.
	But women were created for men, remember the whole thing about the rib and Adam and how lonely he was and God said
	here you go and, right?
	Um, well that's certainly one interpretation I suppose, and maybe the Southern Baptists would agree with you,
	but I think that you'd find that most women and certainly all feminists would give you quite a rhetorical battle.
	Well, to say they were not created for men is... I mean, the opposite sounds just as ridiculous.
	Men were created for women.
	I mean, the plumbing is there.
	There's no question about it.
	We're created for each other.
	Well, we weren't created in order to use one another, certainly.
	We were created, perhaps, to be stewards of one another, which is a sort of progressive biblical interpretation.
	Ah, stewards.
	I like that.
	Yeah, and the animal rights argument then would extend that also to animals, and would say that since animals have the same capacity for suffering, regardless of species, in other words, at the very least mammals, birds, and fishes, we know that biologically and physiologically we all experience pain in the same way, You're going to find me to be a very centrist.
	Well, you won't.
	PETA is pretty much a pretty radical organization, right?
	Would you admit that?
	we will get that stewardship remember that word in other words
	why doesn't you're going to find me to be a very centrist while you won't
	peter is pretty much
	a pretty radical organization right would you admit that on the air radical that the latin of that being a route
	we believe to that date one should go to the root of the exploitation of the
	group of the problem and i really really radical right yeah we we we certainly on the thing that the problem
	should be stopped at its source and we might want to get into the question of
	animal rights is that the benefit uh... as opposed to animal welfare they might
	want to know if your website name
	uh... is very radical it's meet stings dot com
	w w w dot meet thank you for the fact that i have a picnic uh...
	We also have a toll-free vegetarian hotline and we send out a free vegetarian starter pack.
	Is this for vegetarians who are ready to fall off the wagon and have a burger?
	I mean, do they call in the middle of the night?
	I need to pack.
	FedEx same day, FedEx same day.
	So do you save them or what?
	It's for anybody.
	There's information from the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, mostly nutritional information, and then there's the PETA Guide to Animals in the Meat Industry, and it talks about exploitation of animals that are raised for food.
	There are actually quite a few recipes from one of our cookbooks called Recipes for a
	Compassionate Cook, so we sort of span the gauntlet, as it were.
	What about black people were made for white?
	Now, I don't understand that either.
	Black people made for white.
	What does that mean?
	Well, actually Alice Walker wrote this introduction to a book called The Dreaded Comparison by
	a woman named Marjorie Spiegel.
	And what Ms. Spiegel is doing in her book is she is comparing the status of African-Americans
	in the early 19th century, well really the 16th through 19th centuries in the United
	States, to the status of animals that we raise for food and for experimentation, for entertainment,
	Alright, so she was not suggesting that the mixing of the races was wrong?
	No, no, no, no.
	What she's suggesting is that blacks shouldn't be slaves, and neither should animals be slaves.
	Well, I guess if a white guy marries a black girl, why then, if the second part is true, there'd still be a problem, huh?
	In other words, that she was created for him.
	Well, I mean, again, I think if you go back to the stewardship concept and they're helpmates for one another, obviously that would be the right relationship.
	I don't know.
	I think that's a great question.
	Well, that goes... then you sort of have to ask yourself, is this in the best interest of the animal?
	I think that, you know, going back to our analogy about marriage, is it in the best interest of both of the partners?
	Well, here I would argue that yes, it is.
	Exactly, exactly.
	And I think with domestic animals, not only is it in the best interest of the parties
	involved, but there's also the factor that I think people who have companion animals
	naturally understand that animals, and they hopefully can extend this to cows and pigs
	and chickens and primates and other animals, animals have a capacity for pain, a capacity
	for joy, for love.
	Animals are interesting creatures in their own right.
	And what we say then is if you wouldn't cause your dog or your cat to suffer this unbearable
	pain, and make no mistake about it, the animals on these farms, they lead short, miserable,
	violent, bloody lives, and they die incredibly bloody, violent deaths.
	I know where you're going with all this, and I've heard all this, and I know you can draw
	some horror stories that will really make us wretch.
	The fact of the matter is that if that aspect were eliminated, if the small pens, the what you call terrible conditions, and all the rest of it were eliminated, and these pigs lived really a pig's life, I mean just the best pig's life you could imagine, you still would be against the painless killing of those animals for food, right?
	Certainly that's true, although I must say that in the short term, the vast majority
	of our budget goes toward simply improving the conditions that these animals lead.
	For example, there are no federal laws to protect these animals on factory farms, so
	almost 100% of pigs are genetically bred so that most of them are lame.
	They're castrated without painkillers.
	They have their teeth ripped out of their heads without painkillers.
	They're kept on slatted metal floors, never able to lead a pig's life.
	And at the slaughterhouse, a huge proportion of them are dismembered and skinned alive.
	So even for people who give one whip about animal welfare, if you care at all, imagine
	your cat or your dog in this kind of situation and ask yourself how you can justify paying
	people to torment and torture animals.
	Well, I don't want to pay people to torment anything, and I want it to live a decent life until it becomes...
	Bacon or sausage?
	Visit these slaughterhouses. Visit these farms. These places are like Fort Knox. I can tell you, you're not going
	to get in.
	Now, try to go to visit the places where vegetarian foods are grown. You can go to any of them. You can see the
	processing. You can see the food.
	Gandhi used to say that if a poet can't write about it, I don't want any part in it.
	In other words, if a poet can't write about it in a romantic or in a beautiful way, I don't want any part of it.
	And imagine a poem about a slaughterhouse.
	Now imagine a poem about growing grains or beans or fruits or vegetables.
	These are life-giving foods.
	These are foods that don't have to suffer.
	Would somebody be so kind, please, as to write a poem about a slaughterhouse that I can read to Bruce and just fax it to me at my normal 775-727-8499?
	It's going to be a gruesome poem, I'm afraid.
	Well, you can't be sure of that.
	Did you hear the call that prompted you to send me this fax?
	I did, yes.
	So you heard the lady?
	I did, yes.
	What do you think of that?
	Um, well, you know, I thought that perhaps she could have framed her argument perhaps a bit more cogently.
	She could have talked about the health benefits of a vegetarian diet, absolutely the most healthful diet in existence.
	She could have talked about the fact that all... See, I don't believe that.
	I'm sorry?
	I don't believe that.
	You don't?
	No, absolutely not.
	Most vegetarian people that I've come to know, that I've known in my personal life, and they all preach vegetarianism.
	They're very active about it, but they all look emaciated and kind of unhealthy to me.
	Well, it's certainly possible to be an unhelpful vegetarian, but even mainstream organizations like the American Dietetic Association, the Heart Association, the Cancer Society, even the USDA recommends vegetarian diets as a very good way to stave off some of the biggest killers in this country.
	And in fact, the biggest killer in this country is heart disease.
	It kills as many people as everything else combined.
	50% of people die of heart disease.
	There are two physicians in human history who have unclogged people's arteries and made them heart attack proof.
	Dr. Dean Ornish on the West Coast, and he wrote a blockbuster best-selling book.
	He also found that people lost an average of more than 20 pounds, and he put people on a low-fat vegetarian diet, got their cholesterol levels down below 150, Unclogged their arteries, which had been previously thought to be impossible, and he did it on a veggie diet.
	The second one is published in the August 1st.
	So the veggie diet did not kill them.
	The Veggie Diet not only didn't kill them, but these were people who had had heart attacks previously, were at very high risk for dropping over dead any moment, and these were people who were made absolutely immune to heart disease by getting their cholesterol levels down below 150.
	The second one, the American Journal of Cardiology, very established, well-respected journal, a researcher from the Cleveland Clinic, the most well-respected of all of the heart clinics in the country, perhaps in the world, Dr. Esselstyn, No doubt, sir.
	If I have to eat vegetables for 12 years, I'd rather be dead, Bruce.
	Hold on, we'll be back.
	three heart attacks each in the previous eight years.
	No doubt.
	And in the 12 years on his vegetarian diet, he got them all heart attack proof.
	If I had to eat vegetables for 12 years, I'd rather be dead, Bruce.
	Hold on, we'll be back.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 17th, 1999.
	I don't feel ashy, but I'm coming home. I don't feel ashy, but I don't wish I was home.
	Don't say that you love me.
	Real savage night.
	Don't say that you love me.
	Never see what you wanna see.
	We're ever playing to the galanin.
	We take the long way home.
	We take the long way home.
	When you're up one day, you're so unbelievable.
	Unbelievable.
	Oh, I'm so glad I love you, I'll lay it all on you, but anyway...
	Oh, your sanity.
	You're losing the sanity of the vanity With the long way out
	Oh yeah Oh yeah
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time On Premier Radio Networks
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 17th, 1999.
	Meetstinks.com is the link you'll find on my website right now, along with Bruce's name.
	We've got a new section on the website, actually, and there's a couple of things, actually several you should pay attention to on the website.
	One is the new area we have for tonight's show, Which, in this particular case, has a very, very interesting photograph that you've really got to see.
	It's a photograph taken, I believe, in the Andes, the side of a mountain, and what would appear to be a dimensional portal.
	There is an entire website associated with it.
	You can read about it.
	You can look at it.
	Well, I'm sure a lot of you pixel people are going to say, all obvious lens flare.
	But it really is not an obvious lens flare.
	Number two, the photograph of the mountain is extremely clear.
	So it just might be what it represents itself to be.
	And that is an apparent dimensional portal opening.
	If you want to see it, it's there.
	Then, all the information on PETA and Bruce Friedrich who is my guest
	you're listening to art bills somewhere in time on premier radio networks
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 17th, 1999.
	Alright, once again, here is the representative of PETA, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, Bruce Friedrich.
	And Bruce, I bet you guys don't like it when you hear people eating tasty animals, huh?
	Well, I don't know.
	Many people have said that parody is the most sincere form of flattery.
	Well, then you're flattered a lot.
	I mean, again, people eating tasty animals is a fairly popular one.
	There are, I think, a lot more creative and sort of amusing variants there occasionally articles and papers around the
	country where people take our acronym
	uh... do all kinds of wacky things with it and and and we have a very good
	sense of humor when you are uh... basically
	besieged by images of animal abuse day in and day out i think you
	really need to keep your sense of humor
	not too many people i think would accuse peter of not having a sense of humor we
	do come up with an awful lot of i think funny and amusing ways to make our
	point the lady who called me
	what kind of interesting case in point uh... she made an argument that
	you know we're talking about vegetables versus uh... meat from animals all the
	Right.
	And I did mention to her that now very famous scientific experiment in which lettuce was seen to react to its brethren cut in half.
	It was a rather detailed experiment.
	I know you know the story.
	Sure.
	And so if vegetables can react In a seemingly emotional way to another vegetable being cut, then you've got to ask questions about the advocacy of vegetables.
	Sure.
	And what about when they're all crowded together in a garden?
	One seed right next to the other.
	No room to breathe.
	Can't get to the sun.
	It's cruel.
	Well, there are a variety of, I think, fairly cogent responses.
	The first one is that you can't find a reputable physiologist or a reputable biologist who will argue that plants feel pain.
	They don't have any of the things required for pain.
	Pain receptors, central nervous systems, brains, which all of the animals share.
	Plants don't have those things.
	They don't have any need to feel pain.
	And again, the reason, according to biologists and physiologists, we're able to move is so we can escape pain.
	They don't have that need.
	But you know, the reason I went vegetarian more than 12 years ago was for environmental reasons.
	The fact is you have to feed 20 calories to an animal to get one calorie back out of the animal.
	So leaving aside all of the water pollution and water use and topsoil depletion, the reality is we feed more than 80% of the grains we grow in this country.
	We feed them to animals and then we eat the animals.
	So if our concern is actually for the suffering of these plants, assuming we have to eat something, We should still eat the plants directly.
	Well, I would counter with taste.
	Now, for example, the vegetable from absolute hell, as far as I'm concerned, is the lima bean.
	When I was a child, I used to eat lima beans one at a time, like aspirins, downing them with a glass of milk so I could get my dessert, because my mom would give me dessert to finish everything on the table.
	And lima beans were always the last.
	I hate lima beans.
	I will not even walk near a lima bean.
	That's how much I dislike lima beans.
	Fortunately, vegetarians don't have to live on lima beans or broccoli.
	Why?
	I mean, we'll broaden this, but I mean the texture alone of a lima bean is enough to make it throw up.
	The lima bean lobby is going to have your phones ringing off the hook.
	That's just a personal opinion.
	No, I'm with you on the lima beans, Art.
	You don't like lima beans?
	Not a big fan of lima beans, but you know, Vegetarian food, there's such a huge variety and it really is the diet that's going to unclog your arteries.
	It's the best diet for your health.
	Okay, I said something at the bottom of the hour, Bruce, that you should respond to.
	Okay.
	And I was really being honest even though it sounded funny.
	I'm sorry, what was that?
	Well, let's say that I had a choice right now.
	Okay.
	And the choice was, Art, you can have five more years of life if you stop eating meat and eat nothing but vegetables from now until the day you do die, which will be five years later than you otherwise would have.
	Right.
	Listen, I'd rather be dead.
	A couple of points to make, and the first one is strictly health-related.
	Dr. Dean Ornish, again, the foremost nutritionist in the world, the man who first unclogged people's arteries.
	It's now been done by another fellow, also using a vegetarian diet.
	The point he makes is not only do you die earlier from heart disease, but your life is miserable as you die.
	The root of vegetarianism... Are you telling me that vegetarians die good deaths?
	Well, no, but what I'm telling you is that on the road to death, vegetarians are more vital.
	Because in the short term, meat eaters tend to be heavier and more lethargic.
	And in the long term, they clog up their arteries and they suffer from cancer at a 40% greater rate.
	And it's just not a way to go.
	Yes, it is a way to go.
	But see, Bruce, it is a way to go.
	That's the case I'm making.
	It is a way to go.
	But clear your conscience and your arteries.
	Again, I think that people should be very open-eyed about this, this sort of unexamined life is not worth living kind of Socrates thing.
	I think people need to remember that if each time you sit down to eat you have a decision to make, and your decision is between misery and mercy.
	Your decision is between... No, it's absolutely true.
	Your decision is between paying people to torture animals violently, or not paying people to do that.
	And it seems to me there's an awful lot of violence in the world We can't do much about, for example, the Eritreans and the Sudanese or the Kosovo Albanians and the Serbians.
	Without a lot of effort, there's not much we can do to address all of that violence.
	This is one area where we can make a compassionate choice, day in and day out, every time we sit down to eat.
	And I would think that, as moral people, it would be incumbent upon us to do that.
	No, I don't believe that.
	I believe that, as moral people, It is incumbent upon us to be good stewards of the animals that we do eat.
	Remember we were talking about stewardship?
	Sure.
	Well, I agree with you that raising them in torturous conditions and or killing them in torturous conditions is horrible and I want to end that.
	But I still want my steaks and burgers and chicken and I'm really a meat-eater, a serious meat-eater, Bruce.
	Well, but Art, at least in the short term, I think it would make sense for you to engage in a boycott until you can visit the slaughterhouses and see the animals humanely killed.
	Until you can visit the farms and find the animals.
	And again, cows, they have the horns ripped out of their heads without painkillers.
	They're castrated without painkillers.
	Not for any of that.
	They have third degree burns inflicted.
	This is a violent reality.
	They're transported to the slaughterhouse through all manner of weather extremes.
	And in the big cow states like Texas and Oklahoma, it's very hot.
	Many of these animals die during the transportation in the hotter months or they freeze to death in places like Canada during the colder months.
	This is what we're paying people to do to animals.
	Well, alright, so then fine, let's be activists and change that.
	That or more.
	Sure, let's be activists and change that.
	You're not going to get an argument out of me.
	I don't want to see anything suffer, animal or human.
	Well, I love animals.
	Sure, let's be activists and change that, but in the short term, it's sort of like, you know, let's change sweat shop conditions for our clothing.
	But in the short term, you have to engage in a boycott in order to do that.
	And so I would encourage you, at least in the short term, until conditions improve.
	No way!
	No way, Bruce!
	Adopt a vegetarian diet, and it is the best thing you can do for your health.
	It's the best thing for the environment.
	You know what?
	I think it would kill me.
	I think you would be surprised.
	I went vegetarian more than 12 years ago, and I'm still kicking.
	If I wasn't surprised and died, then I wouldn't be here to complain to you, would I?
	You wouldn't be.
	That's right.
	See, I really, really enjoy meat.
	And if it takes five years off my life... It's also going to make those five years significantly less pleasant.
	Meat is laden with saturated fat and cholesterol.
	It has no fiber or carbohydrates at all.
	How can you prove to me That vegetarians don't die terrible, twitching deaths just like meat eaters.
	Well, they don't clog up their arteries.
	They suffer from 40% less cancer.
	They suffer from about 80% less stroke.
	But they still kick the bucket!
	They still kick the bucket, but according to the foremost nutritionists in the world, they certainly kick the bucket in a less violent and unpleasant reality.
	And again, you know, Dr. Benjamin Spock, foremost pediatrician in human history.
	Bruce, what is a typical way for a veggie to kick?
	Well, vegetarians, I think, kick the bucket in similar ways that everybody else kicks the bucket.
	See?
	They just do it a little bit later, and they do it with a little bit less violence.
	And their arteries don't corrode, or at least complete vegetarians.
	Because a vegan's average cholesterol level is about 123.
	And no one in human history has been documented of dying of or even having a heart attack if their cholesterol level goes below 150.
	So not everybody who eats meat is going to have a heart attack.
	Do vegetarians have fewer strokes?
	They have less strokes that are related to blood flow.
	I think it's about 60% of stroke is related to clogged arteries.
	In other words, clogged blood flow to the brain.
	And again, vegetarians, or at least complete vegetarians, have very low cholesterol levels.
	Their arteries don't clog.
	And there are these two researchers, Dr. Esselstyn at the Cleveland Clinic and Dr. Ornish out on the West Coast, who are actually unclogging people's arteries with a low-fat vegetarian diet.
	And again, on Ornish's program, people lost an average of more than 20 pounds in the first year.
	And they keep the weight off.
	And both Esselstyn and Orner argue that the reason they keep the weight off and the reason that they stick to the diet is because their lifestyle improves so much.
	Well, look, I believe the weight loss.
	I just finished telling you, I think somewhere during the hour, that most of the vegetarians, particularly women that I've known, look emaciated.
	Their hair is falling out more than it ought to.
	It's a lousy sort of dull color.
	I think that's definitely the anomaly.
	A million people are turning vegetarian every year, and it's a diet adhered to by Shania Twain, Michael Eisner, CEO of Disney, Pamela Anderson-Lee, Michael Milken, the Junkbond King, Chelsea Clinton, Steve Jobs, one of the founders of Apple, Kim Basinger, Paul McCartney, Alanis Morissette.
	The list goes on and on and on, and these are not emaciated people.
	These are extremely healthy, vital people.
	and paper people who don't have a web access to let me tell talk about our
	toll-free vegetarian hotline and will send people the positions
	committee for responsible medicine pack
	also are guiding animals in the meat industry it's toll-free it's one
	eight eight eight badge
	food aided a p g oh oh d
	you know i've seen these hamburgers for example
	that they advertise uh... i i i I forget.
	It's some big company.
	I don't know who it is.
	They always advertise on Meet the Press.
	Hamburgers made out of some alternate substance.
	Probably Archer Daniels Middle.
	That's right.
	Supermarket to the world.
	Yeah, yeah.
	But a hamburger, which is not a beef hamburger, is not a hamburger.
	You know, there's a new burger out.
	It's called the Boca Burger, and it's gotten a lot of press fairly recently.
	And what is the Boca Burger?
	The Boca Burger is something made by Boca Burger Company.
	Surprise!
	And it's gotten a lot of press recently because Bob R. Knott, who wrote the Breast Cancer Prevention Diet, which is a blockbuster bestseller.
	He's, I think, NBC's scientific or medical advisor.
	He's recommending Boca Burgers, and he's been on the Today Show.
	And what, Craytel, is a Boca Burger?
	It's basically a soy-based Completely vegetarian alternative.
	And you know, he went on the Rosie O'Donnell Show, and he did a taste test with her, and he gave her a bokeh burger, and he gave her a meat burger, and she thought the bokeh burger was the real thing.
	And we've done this on radio programs, we've done this in front of McDonald's restaurants.
	Well, I wish I had one.
	The only thing you're missing with the bokeh burger, the only thing you're missing is the saturated fat and the cholesterol.
	Oh, come on, you're missing beef.
	That goes out the window, too.
	Where's the beef, Bruce?
	You're missing the beef.
	But what you're getting is you're getting fiber, you're getting a low-fat, zero-cholesterol, high-fiber, high-complex carbohydrate alternative that tastes just as good.
	Why on earth would you want to pay people to harm animals, harm the environment, and also get this heavy dose of saturated fat and cholesterol?
	And again, meat has no fiber and no carbohydrates at all.
	Because it tastes good.
	It's bad for you.
	There's a lot of things that are bad for you in life, and yet it's part of the enjoyment of life.
	There are lots of things.
	I mean, life in general is killing us, Bruce.
	All of us.
	Even you.
	That's true.
	From the moment we're born, we begin to die.
	Then nobody's getting out alive.
	And so you make choices in life.
	And one of them, a real bad one, might be smoking.
	I do that.
	Or drinking coffee.
	I do that too.
	And I eat meat.
	Now, so it has to do with the quality of life, not just the length of life.
	What good would it do to live to be 102 years old if, for 40 years of that time, you are going to be in abject misery because you're eating nothing but green slush?
	Well, let's distill it to where many men, at least, live their lives.
	When Dean Ornish, again, the West Coast physician, And again, his program is covered by all of the major medical insurance companies.
	It's covered by Medicare, it's covered by Medicaid, the only nutritional program covered by the insurance companies.
	And the reason for that is he's unclogging people's arteries.
	That's what kills more than half of people in this country.
	When he was asked on Politically Incorrect, basically the same points that you're making by one of the guests there, he said, well, he said, I'll tell you, another side effect that we found on our diet is that men who were impotent restored their sexual function and it certainly is the case that people want to be able to have erectile function late into life but a quarter of men are impotent by the time they're sixty years old half of men report having some problems by the time they're forty and more than seventy percent of this is related to clogged arteries what Ornish has found is that he is unclogging people's arteries and he's also restoring sexual function which for a lot of people is very very
	Integrally tied to their quality of life.
	Well, yeah.
	Sex.
	It's true.
	A lot of times, sex is just great after a porterhouse.
	I mean, just a charbroiled porterhouse steak.
	You'll see very few vegetarians sitting on the couch having to unbuckle their pants and sort of sit there lethargically staring at the television because their meal has just weighed them down.
	and you know all of the things that come with obesity and obesity is linked to just about everything.
	Sometimes Bruce, it feels good to have a meal where afterwards you're weighted down.
	Well I guarantee...
	You sit there in your weighted down, contented condition and you have a smoke after dinner and you just feel great.
	You know, I guarantee Art that it doesn't feel good for the animal.
	I'm sure.
	Dying, we're all going to die, right?
	We're all going to die, but we don't have to die so miserably.
	And you know, chickens, they don't even live two months anymore.
	They've been genetically bred so that more than 90% of them, more than 9 out of 10 chickens, by the time they're two months old and are hanging upside down, 90% of them have crippling leg deformities.
	Because we've genetically bred them so that they're these weird super animals.
	Their upper bodies grow, but their legs don't keep up.
	And the reason we have to slaughter them when they're two months old is that they would otherwise all die of heart attacks because they grow so quickly that their hearts and their lungs can't keep up with their bulk.
	This is a violent reality.
	We sear their beaks off with a hot blade so that many of them starve to death because eating becomes so painful.
	From life to death, I mean from birth to death for all of these animals is absolutely unmitigated suffering.
	I know you're going to just drive this home and drive this home, but I'm on your side here.
	I absolutely agree with you.
	Nobody wants any animal tortured.
	I certainly don't.
	I am still very much in favor of raising animals in a proper, reasonable, stewardship type of way, and then slaughtering them so we can have burgers and steaks and sausage.
	Well, visit one of these factory farms.
	Visit one of these slaughterhouses.
	But I'm trying to make you reach out mentally, Bruce.
	I want you to reach out mentally and imagine all of that changed.
	It wouldn't change what you're saying, would it?
	Well, it would change tremendously what I'm saying.
	I think you're talking about the inherent right to life.
	Yeah, no, what I'm trying to do... Alright, how would you argue?
	Let's say it's a done deal.
	Alright, and all the animals are living well, and then painlessly slaughtered for food.
	What would your argument then be?
	Um, my argument would run something along the lines of the concept of democracy, okay, which is what this country is founded on.
	The concept of the social contract, and you have a right to swing your fist.
	Pigs don't vote.
	But that right is limited.
	Well, neither do babies, and neither do people with mental problems.
	Well, that's a very good point, and I'm gonna call you on it when we get back.
	Plenty of time.
	Bruce Friedrich from PETA is here.
	You're listening to Arc Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 17th, 1999.
	Amen.
	Behind.
	The sound, the smell, the touch, the something Inside that we need so much
	The sight of the touch or the scent of the sound Or the strength of an oak when it's deep in the ground
	The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up Through tarmac and the sun again
	Or to fly through the sun without burning a wing To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing
	How all these things in our memory soar And they use them to cover us
	HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
	you you
	Why, why should he go?
	Take his place on this trip?
	Just for me Why, take a free ride
	Take a glimpse of what's here It's for free
	I was born to take the edge Work so hard to do it my way
	Have to live my life to call it right But I know, I know, I know it's wrong
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 17, 1999.
	And you ask, where may you get hold of me?
	Well, how about Minespring.com?
	That's MindSpring.com.
	Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
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	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
	I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
	Governments won't do that, and the reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
	They think that they'll lose control of us if we know.
	If you actually truly believe that we were being visited by extraterrestrials, and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that government throws out all the time?
	Absolutely not!
	You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
	And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
	So, the bottom line is, government will never, ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
	Now we take you back to the night of August 17th, 1999, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Bruce?
	Hey, Art.
	How you doing?
	Okay.
	You're there, right?
	All set to go?
	I am.
	I'm ready to go.
	It's a new hour.
	All right.
	All right.
	There once was a pig named Mate, who was quite unaware of his fate.
	While living his life, he suffered no strife, but he still wound up on my plate.
	I think I've seen that.
	Have you?
	I have.
	So you see, there are poetry about Oh, is that somebody faxed you that?
	Yes.
	It's not really a poem about a slaughterhouse, though, is it?
	Well, I mean, in a way it is.
	He suffered no strife, but still wound up on my plate.
	There's a Wall Street Journal cartoon that's very cute.
	It was in, I think, about two weeks ago, an animal testing cartoon.
	It said, truly inhumane animal testing.
	It had the animals crammed into this room, all sitting at their little tables with somebody with a ruler up in the front.
	I know that's horrible.
	I agree, it's horrible.
	I'm just not going to fight with you on that.
	I know you're going to cram this information on us, but I'm not going to argue with you.
	I think that any living thing should be given good conditions in which to live, or the best that we can manage to provide.
	Stewardship is the answer.
	Doesn't it make sense that we don't participate in something that we don't believe in?
	Well then, how about Kobe beef?
	I mean, Japanese people massage these animals in Kobe, Japan.
	We wear some of the best beef in the entire world.
	And these guys, they get more than I get every day.
	Well, then only buy.
	I mean, like Alexander Coburn.
	I don't know if you're familiar with him.
	He's a leftist journalist.
	He writes for The Nation Magazine, among other things.
	I'm certainly familiar with The Nation.
	Okay, well anyway, he's one of The Nation's columnists.
	He and Christopher Hitchens do off-weeks.
	They have sort of a column that they share week by week.
	And he eats meat still, but he only eats meat from a butcher that he knows who actually raises the animals.
	And it's a huge move in the right direction.
	Is it enough?
	I mean, is it enough for you?
	Well, no, it's not enough.
	I think that animals have interest in the same way human beings have interest.
	Well, here's another thing.
	Being a vegetarian does not necessarily make you a better person, nor a more truthful person, does it?
	Because here, I have in my hand, from the UK News, electronic telegraph.
	I bet you know about this, don't you?
	Sure.
	It says, no, it says, half of all vegetarians are secret meat eaters.
	Now, what kind of horrendous hypocrisy... I mean, fully 50% of those that you claim are in your camp...
	Are lying their butts off!
	Well, what happened, I mean, how they got that statistic is they ask people, are you a vegetarian?
	And the person says yes.
	And they say, have you eaten any beef, pork, chicken, or fish in the last month?
	And half of the people say yes.
	It's not that they're lying, it's that they have a warped notion of what it means to be a vegetarian.
	Well, they certainly don't have the purity of the word at heart when they claim to be Exactly, but they're not being intentionally duplicitous.
	They just need a better dictionary.
	Well, how about this then?
	Again, from the Electronic Telegraph.
	Vegetarian diet won't cut risk of heart disease is the headline.
	Claims by vegetarians that their diet is healthier than that of meat eaters are dismissed in a study which shows, listen now Bruce, no Difference in the level of heart disease.
	It is a study of more than 11,000 people over 13 years.
	The results show the difference in heart disease levels between meat eaters and vegetarians is statistically insignificant.
	Well, I mean, that's clearly nonsense.
	Even the American Heart Association is certainly not a radical organization by any stretch of the imagination.
	He dismisses that and says that a vegetarian diet is excellent in terms of preventing heart disease.
	You can be an unhealthy vegetarian just like you can be an unhealthy meat eater, certainly.
	But again, there are two people in human history who have ever reversed heart disease.
	They've both done it with a low-fat, vegan, actually completely vegetarian diet.
	And you know, the average vegan cholesterol is 123.
	I haven't met anybody on a complete vegetarian diet who has a cholesterol level above 140.
	Have you ever heard of a heart bypass?
	Sure.
	That'll clear it up, too.
	That's true.
	You know, in all of medical history, no one with a cholesterol level below 150 has ever had a heart attack, and the complete vegetarian has an average cholesterol level of about 123.
	Your web guy is awesome.
	He's already linked to Ornish's book.
	Oh, I know.
	He's really hot.
	He has a couple of really good quotes there.
	All right.
	Well, that's one, I guess, huh?
	That you say nobody with a cholesterol level of under 123 has ever had a heart attack.
	Under 150.
	Under 150 is the average cholesterol level for vegans.
	Complete vegetarians is 123.
	Why do they call them vegans?
	That sounds like you're from the planet vegan.
	Yeah, I know.
	Why not just vegetarians or vegans?
	Well, it's because the fellow who coined the term back in the 1940s, he decided to found the Royal Vegan Society and that's what he called it.
	And what he said is, it's got the beginning and the end of vegetarian.
	It takes vegetarianism to its logical extension.
	From a cruelty standpoint, there's nothing worse than eggs.
	All right, well then, all right, how about this?
	Let's examine, let's look at the larger picture.
	Let's look at nature itself.
	I went to Africa.
	You ever go to Africa?
	No.
	Oh, it's really cool.
	Anyway, we got to see all the big game, the big five, they're called.
	Right.
	And animals were Constantly eating animals.
	Now, if nature did not intend for us to eat meat, then why would animals eat animals?
	This might be a discussion we want to have on the air, because this is one of the most popular of the questions.
	Well, we're on the air.
	Oh, are we?
	I didn't even realize that.
	The short answer to that is that nature is cruel, and nature lives on the law of survival of the fittest.
	Nature is cruel.
	Nature is cruel, and nature works on survival of the fittest.
	Rape happens in nature, animals eat their young in that nature, and animals will battle to the death in territorial disputes.
	Yeah.
	And we don't base our ethics on the laws of nature.
	No, but we sure act the same way, roughly, in life.
	You've already given me that gratuitous cruelty is not a good idea.
	No, it isn't.
	And that marks the difference between, you know, intellect that we have and that animals don't.
	See, but that goes back to my contention that every time we sit down to eat, we're making a choice.
	Misery or mercy.
	Absolutely.
	Life or death.
	Physiologically, human beings aren't intended to be eating animals.
	Every single carnivore shares about a dozen traits we don't share, including 10 times the level of hydrochloric acid in their stomach, so they can break down decomposing corpses.
	Oh my god, you were talking about sex earlier, and that people who eat greens, nothing but greens and vegetables, have a better sex life.
	Sure.
	Now, how long have you been a vegetarian?
	A little over 12 years.
	12 years.
	And how old are you?
	I'm just turned 30, actually.
	30?
	So, in other words, you're telling me that since you were, what, about 18 or something?
	Yeah, I turned completely vegetarian just before I turned 18.
	Just before you turned 18.
	So, you wouldn't even know what a great big porterhouse and then sex is like, because you haven't had it, have you?
	I think I might take the Fifth Amendment on that.
	I grew up in Oklahoma, and there's not really a lot to do in Oklahoma, so people start kind of early.
	On sex or steak?
	Well, on both, actually.
	I think the state food in Oklahoma is the chicken fried steak.
	I ate an awful lot of those as I was growing up.
	Back to the physiological aspect, I also ran cross-country and played football in high school, and I found that my cross-country time, I'm kind of a bulky guy, so my cross-country time has never been that good, but in the course of about two months when I went completely vegetarian, my cross-country time dropped from usually an average of about 45 minutes to an average of about 40 minutes.
	On a momento, you said, you mean to say you're not a complete vegetarian?
	I am a complete vegetarian.
	Well, you said during a period of time, when you want to be vegetarian
	twelve years more than twelve years ago all i see as you need to know when you
	were first term while i was growing up and forever from meter how about you
	know i think what happened that happened to you anyway how do you get ruined
	for me like that well i i read a book called diet for a small planet by
	francis more look at him
	she's the one who makes the argument based on environmental ground
	She says, look, you put 20 calories into an animal, you get one calorie out.
	It's vastly inefficient.
	It's fine that it's inefficient.
	A lot of things are inefficient.
	That doesn't make them bad.
	Animals raised for food, they produce 230 times as much excrement as the entire human population.
	They don't have waste treatment systems.
	We feed, as I said earlier, more than 80% of our crops.
	We feed the animals.
	If you certify that your crops are going to be fed to animals, you can dump pesticides and herbicides onto them that you couldn't dump onto them if you were going to be
	feeding those crops.
	That seems stupid.
	Again, that pollutes our groundwater, it erodes our topsoil.
	Environmentally, raising animals for food is the worst thing we do in this society.
	Well, actually, the way we do it, I agree with you in North Carolina, they've got a
	real problem with pigs and all the runoff into the ocean and the terrible things that
	are producing in the estuaries and all the rest of it.
	And dairy cows in California have completely destroyed.
	One of our best freshwater aquifers has been rendered completely undrinkable as a result of dairy cows.
	Alright, so if I were to bring you Bruce, have you ever had Kobe beef, Bruce?
	No, I haven't.
	It is an unbelievable sensory experience that you would just, I mean, you could die for.
	Well, alright.
	Now, so Kobe beef, as I said, is massaged by Japanese gals, and maybe guys even, but mostly gals.
	This is it.
	These cattle have all the room you want.
	They are fed the very best.
	They're even given beer!
	And then they are hand-massaged!
	Alright.
	You couldn't ask for a better life for a steak.
	You just couldn't ask for a better life.
	Sounds good.
	Well, does it, really?
	In other words, if I were to bring you Kobe beef, would you be comfortable eating it?
	Of course not.
	Animals have rights, and animals have inherent interests, and animals, like human beings, deserve not to be eaten.
	The reality is that, you know, going back to the concept of democracy that I started on earlier, it's the concept of the social contract.
	Again, you have the right to swing your fist, but that right is limited.
	You have limits on your rights, wherever they conflict with the rights of others to be free from, for example, being hit by your fist.
	And what we're saying is that animals also have a right to be free from exploitation at the hands of human beings.
	And that includes slaughterhouses, and that includes factory farms, and circuses, and rodeos, and laboratories.
	We extend this basic right to all human beings, and we should also be extending this basic right to all beings who have interests.
	And certainly, at the very least, we know that biologically, physiologically, mammals, birds, and fish All have, biologically and physiologically, the same pain response mechanisms that human beings do, and they therefore have the same right.
	You don't even eat fish!
	No, no.
	Fish don't scream out in pain.
	Fish are interesting animals, and fish suffer in the same way dogs and cats do.
	We don't understand them as well.
	They're not as cute and cuddly as puppies and kittens.
	Their cute and cuddly factor is very low, but physiologically, biologically, they have the capacity for pain and for suffering.
	And they deserve not to experience that at human hands.
	Going back to the health argument again, that no fiber, no carbohydrates, lots of saturated fat and cholesterol relative to vegetarian products, and going back to Dean Ornish and Dr. Esselstyn at the Cleveland Clinic, no fish.
	It's not good for you.
	It's not good for the animals.
	Why do it?
	Because fish is good!
	Well, I grew up in Minnesota eating fish, and I also grew up fishing for 12 years, land of 10,000 lakes.
	And I can tell you, they don't require any training to go out there and toss a hook into the water.
	And when you, oftentimes, you know, especially kids, you end up ripping, sometimes the fish will swallow the hook, bleed to death internally if you throw the fish back.
	Often times you rip the fish's entire face right off.
	Well, that's not good.
	Nobody's in favor of that.
	Certainly nobody's in favor of it, but it's going to happen if you're fishing.
	Here's Anthony.
	Anthony writes to you, Hey Bruce, if animals were not made to eat, then how come they're made of meat?
	Well Anthony, for the same reason that you're made of meat.
	Human beings are made of meat and animals are made of meat.
	That's a similarity that we share with animals.
	I'm not going to come over to Anthony's house, even if he's smaller than me.
	I'm not going to come over there and, you know, fillet him.
	And he also shouldn't be filleting cows and pigs and chickens and other animals.
	Dogs and cats are made of meat also.
	You just really do draw a line.
	Even though I love animals, I have three cats and I love them.
	I dearly love them.
	But they are not the same thing as human beings.
	They are, they have personalities.
	I give you that.
	They have feelings.
	I believe they feel emotions.
	But I mean to compare that, for example, to a fish.
	As you're aware, a cat is a mammal.
	And biologically and physiologically, cats and fish experience pain and pleasure in the same way.
	And you can't understand fish, but that doesn't take away from fish their uniqueness and their interestingness.
	And their capacity for suffering.
	Well, then why aren't they smart enough not to bite a worm on a hook, for God's sake?
	Where seafood comes from, they have these 40-mile-long drift nets.
	They comb the bottoms of the ocean.
	In addition to destroying the aqua ecosystems on the oceans, they also just sweep up everything in their path.
	And half of this stuff is fed to cows and pigs and chickens on factory farms.
	And interestingly, we also feed all of the downer cows and pigs and chickens.
	Back to cows and pigs and chickens.
	So we've turned these naturally vegetarian animals, not just into carnivores, but actually into cannibals.
	We're feeding cows to cows and pigs to pigs and chickens to chickens.
	And also half of the sea life that these factory trawlers dredge up from the oceans, half of that also goes into cows and pigs and chickens.
	Naturally, again, vegetarians.
	And it's so unnatural and it's such a complete perversion.
	And the amount, the immensity of the suffering is so vast.
	That from a strictly animal welfare standpoint, people of good conscience should not be taking part in this stuff.
	I see you're going after McDonald's, aren't you?
	We are going after McDonald's.
	McDonald's is lying to people.
	It's the most remarkable thing.
	They actually say on their website and in their correspondence that they meet all government regulations for animal welfare.
	Well, maybe they do.
	How do you know they're lying?
	Because they have produced a video that advocates breaking the law.
	They have produced a video.
	It's really just unbelievable.
	The first thing is they're conveniently ignoring the fact that there are no regulations for animals on farms or during transportation.
	I happen to love McDonald's.
	I mean, among, of all the people that actually make hamburgers, McDonald's probably has the best tasting hamburger of them all.
	Hold on, Bruce.
	We'll be back.
	It's bottom of the hour.
	You'll get to respond.
	Stay right there.
	Here it is again, because I can't get it out of my head.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 17th, 1999.
	The Coast to Coast AM performance, performed by the Coast to Coast Am orchestra, was a tribute to the late John Lewis.
	The performance was a tribute to John Lewis, a great American musician who was a great friend of the late John
	The performance was a tribute to John Lewis, a great American musician who was a great friend of the late John
	Lewis.
	I know I could cry I just can't find the answers to the questions that keep
	Lewis.
	The performance was a tribute to John Lewis, a great American musician who was a great friend of the late John
	going through my mind Baby, if there is time
	Lewis.
	The performance was a tribute to John Lewis, a great American musician who was a great friend of the late John
	It's time, it's just time to wait Till the morning is up, we'll see all the change
	Lewis.
	The performance was a tribute to John Lewis, a great American musician who was a great friend of the late John
	If there is time It's time, it's just time
	It's time, it's just time to wait It's time, it's just time to wait
	Lewis.
	The performance was a tribute to John Lewis, a great American musician who was a great friend of the late John
	Lewis.
	The performance was a tribute to John Lewis, a great American musician who was a great friend of the late John
	Tonight's program originally aired August 17th, 1999.
	Do you know there's nothing in the world, nothing, that duplicates the taste of a quarter pounder, and I don't care where on the globe you go, a quarter pounder, far, far away, it doesn't matter, quarter pounders are the same.
	I'll tell you, you take a quarter pounder without cheese, and you've got something that has the most distinctive taste in the world.
	Now I'm sure he's all set to say something really terrible about McDonald's.
	But I'll tell you right now.
	In Paris, where they have... Paris, France.
	Which I love.
	They don't even have a clue about how to cook meat.
	And that's because they really don't cook it.
	What they actually do is they... If you... When you complain that your food is not... Your meat is not cooked, they take it in the back room and they paint it brown.
	I'm convinced.
	So when I was in Paris, I walked miles and miles to get to a McDonald's.
	Miles and miles.
	I really did.
	It was so good.
	It was like real food again, folks.
	Anyway, Bruce will be right back.
	We've got quite a bit to... We've got to get done here and I better find out what it is.
	Oh, boy.
	You get so wrapped up in what you're doing, you forget about your commercials.
	We'll be right back.
	Now we take you back to the night of August 17th, 1999.
	On Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	On Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	I'm sure that, Bruce, you're going to say all the things about McDonald's that you've been saying about the other meat manufacturers, and I suppose you're after McDonald's because they're the biggest, right?
	Well, no, we're after McDonald's because in June of 1997, a British High Court judge, after the longest trial in British history, ruled that McDonald's was culpably responsible for cruelty to animals, and this judge... Well, that is the same thing you're saying about these others.
	Well, the judge... I mean, you spent two hours Certainly McDonald's is not the only one, but McDonald's claims to care about the treatment of animals on their farms and in slaughterhouses, and McDonald's lies about this.
	Well, I'm not so sure about that, because their quarter pounders are better, their hamburgers are better tasting, they have some formula that they use, or Bruce, the way they treat animals, The way they treat animals is abominable.
	And they're lying to consumers about it.
	They claim that they require their suppliers to meet all federal regulations.
	They conveniently ignore the fact that there are no federal regulations on the farm order and transportation.
	And they have paid to produce a video that actually advocates violating the law.
	It's just the most remarkable duplicity, the most remarkable lie.
	I thought you just said there were no regulations.
	There's one regulation that has to do with slaughterhouses.
	There are no regulations on the farm.
	There are no regulations during transportation.
	So the British High Court found McDonald's culpably responsible for cruelty to animals, spelled out in over 80 pages, six different ways.
	All right, but be fair to McDonald's.
	Look, you're complaining about slaughterhouses all across the United States, and you're saying that they're all doing this roughly the same way, cruel, according to you, right?
	Absolutely.
	But if McDonald's is going to claim to want to be a leader in animal welfare, as last Friday's Wall Street Journal and the Associated Press story that hit the wire last night, They say they want to be a leader in animal welfare.
	They refuse to even look at the half a dozen ways that the judge spelled out that they're cruel to animals.
	For example, searing the beaks off the chickens with a hot iron so that millions a year starve to death.
	For example, cramming these chickens by the tens of thousands into these sheds, cooped in their own feed.
	These are exactly the same things that you said earlier about other... And because McDonald's has only two suppliers of chickens and two suppliers of eggs, they could change these practices.
	Because McDonald's is working with, supposedly, these slaughterhouses, they could issue some sort of sanction against people who violate the USDA Humane Slaughter Act.
	Not only will they not issue a sanction, but they have produced a video saying that if 5% of the animals end up skinned alive and dismembered while fully conscious, that's an acceptable level.
	The USDA says 100%, and the next line in the video is, what the u s d requires one hundred percent
	well that is violating federal law they are advocating violating federal law
	where where animal welfare is concerned it's made i think there's a lot of
	maybe you shouldn't buy it but maybe bruce they're saying that in the world post-slaughterhouses which is not a good
	world i you know i'm sure it's not a good world
	that they're doing better than the average maybe that's what they're saying
	Maybe they're saying, we're not perfect and nobody's perfect, but we're doing better than the others.
	No, they certainly haven't shown that they're doing better than the others.
	And in our negotiations, which have been going on for a couple of years, we have said, now their animal welfare consultant is a wonderful woman, Dr. Temple Grandin at Colorado State University.
	And we asked, we said, okay, so people violate Dr. Grandin's audits and their announced audits.
	What do you do?
	McDonald's does nothing.
	We said to Dr. Grandin, What would be a really great way to approach 100% stunning effectiveness?
	And she said, well, if they hired a second person to be a stunner on the line.
	And remember, this job occupation, slaughterhouse worker, has nine times the rate of injury of coal miners in Appalachia.
	So if you care about human beings, that's another good reason not to be eating animal products.
	But we said, so what could they do?
	And she said they could hire a second stunner.
	And we said, well, if McDonald's were to whisper to their suppliers that they should hire a second stunner, what would happen?
	And Dr. Grandin said, they'd all hire a second stunner.
	And we said to McDonald's, are you going to do it?
	And they said, no.
	McDonald's cares not one whit about animal welfare.
	They care about public relations.
	They care about lying to consumers.
	It's not exactly fair to McDonald's.
	And McDonald's ought to have a spokesperson here to defend themselves for this.
	I mean, you're definitely attacking them.
	Sure.
	I'm saying that if they are producing something that says they're at least trying harder, or at least talking about it, then that's more than a lot of them are doing, isn't it?
	Because a lot of them aren't talking about it at all, will they?
	No, a lot of them won't talk about it at all, and I wonder if talking and lying about it actually is preferable to doing nothing.
	Well, talking is always a precursor to action, or most always is a precursor to action.
	So you should be happy that they're talking.
	We've been trying to be in good faith negotiations with McDonald's for two years, and we haven't seen any evidence that they care at all about anything other than how this affects their public relations status.
	Well, I love their hamburgers, anyway.
	Anybody from McDonald's who wants to come on is welcome to come on.
	I'll have Bruce back, and you can go at it.
	Here's something for you, Bruce.
	I fail to understand.
	Why a reasonably intelligent person like yourself, meaning me, would give any airtime to extremist animal rights groups like PETA?
	Didn't you know they support domestic terrorism through the Animal Liberation Front, whom they have paid the legal fees of?
	Those got burning down labs, and even worse, I would not wish to be associated with such a group.
	I would do some depth investigation of this group before ever talking to them online.
	Do you, in fact, with money, bail out Animal Liberation Front people who get put in the slammer?
	Or burning down labs?
	Not that I'm aware of.
	We don't bail out people who get put in the slammer.
	I think it's interesting, you know, the Animal Liberation Front.
	I think people need to ask themselves what they're doing to stop animal cruelty.
	It's very easy to point at other people and say, you know, you've gone too far.
	But I think it's a very reasonable question to say, what am I doing?
	to try to be as compassionate and as kind as I possibly can, rather than pointing fingers at other people and saying,
	you know, those people are going too far.
	What is your position on abortion?
	On my personal position is to be against it. And the thing I find really quite remarkable
	about so many other people who claim the pro-life moniker is that they claim to be pro-life,
	and they're perfectly willing to sit down and dine on, again, tortured corpses.
	This is so anti-life.
	You couldn't be any more anti-life than requiring suffering and death every time you sit down to eat.
	I know, but an awful lot of PETA people are pro-abortion, and you know it.
	Well, we have more than 600,000 members, and we have people on both sides of the political spectrum.
	Yes, but to be honest with me, Bruce, What percentage of those 600,000 do you think are pro-abortion?
	Be honest.
	Brutally honest.
	I'm sorry, Art.
	I really couldn't even begin to speculate.
	Yes, you could.
	Yes, you could.
	I do think that both animal rights and animal welfare transcend these sort of boundaries, having to do with liberal and conservative and having to do with... Forget liberal and conservative for a moment.
	Okay.
	I mean, we're talking about... We're talking about What most or many people believe to be a human life.
	Sure.
	A human life.
	Not an animal life, but a human life.
	See, but realistically, animals and humans suffer in the same way.
	And I, as somebody who is pro-life, there's not a tremendous amount that I can do without a lot of effort.
	You're so damn hypocritical to, on the one hand, be touchy-feely with animals, which is fine, and on the other, be pro-abortion.
	That one just doesn't add up, brother.
	Well, I might agree with you, Art, and I do agree with you, but I think that realistically it's worth asking ourselves where we can have a positive influence for mercy and compassion.
	So, as somebody who's a pro-life activist, you can go out and scream at other people.
	But as somebody who simply adopts a vegetarian diet, every time you sit down to eat, you're making an option for mercy and compassion.
	And I would encourage people, when you sit down to eat, if you want to have a burger, think about the slaughterhouse.
	Paint a picture for yourself.
	Think about a treasured companion animal, hanging upside down, dismembered and skinned alive.
	And ask yourself if that's something that jibes with your concept of yourself as a moral person or an ethical person.
	Because we all know it's immoral to do that to a dog or a cat.
	None of us would advocate doing that to a dog or a cat.
	It's equally immoral to do that to a cow, a pig, a chicken, or any animal.
	I don't agree with doing that.
	How about that?
	I don't agree with it.
	I think that... Well, then don't support it with your money!
	Well, I'm all for working... This is where I'm in the center, and you're way out there somewhere.
	I'm all for working as hard as possible on improving the conditions of the animals, but that wouldn't be enough for you.
	It would be a huge step in the right direction and that's where we spend the vast majority of our time and effort right now.
	But it wouldn't stop you?
	No, we believe, and again this goes back to the question of animal rights as opposed to animal welfare, we believe that animals are not here for human purposes.
	We believe that animals have interests in the same way that human beings have interests.
	But I'll tell you the vast majority of our budget goes into trying to convince people to simply improve conditions for animals on farms For animals who are raised for food, for animals who are raised for experimentation.
	It is such a violent reality for this animal that we really have few disagreements with the Humane Society of the United States, a wonderful organization that works on animal welfare.
	For example, I really abhor the use of animals for commercial experimentation involving some new makeup or whatever in God's name they're doing, but on the other hand, if They're able to experiment on animals and come up with a spinal cord cure for people who have severed their spinal cords, then that is a proper stewardship, Bruce.
	But it's a false equation, Art.
	We spend more than 99% of our research money, we spend on trying to find cures for things, when according to our own search in general, 90% of this disease is lifestyle related.
	We need to spend more money on prevention.
	It's also the case that animal research costs both human and animal lives every year.
	I mean, look at protease inhibitors for AIDS.
	They were shelved for six years because of faulty animal experimentation, and a lot of people died very miserable AIDS deaths as a result.
	The polio vaccine, shelved for ten years because of faulty experimentation on animals.
	Tobacco research, for goodness sake.
	Tobacco still doesn't cause lung cancer in dogs and chickens, and consequently the tobacco company executives get up and say, the evidence is inconclusive.
	The list goes on and on and on, and I can tell you, based on having worked in a shelter for homeless families for more than six years, that people have very long waiting lists and get bumped off of drug treatment programs and rehabilitation programs very quickly for the minorest of violations.
	And in the meantime, we're spending hundreds of millions of dollars to study the effects of cocaine and alcohol and tobacco on animals.
	We know the effects on human beings.
	Why on earth are we doing this nonsense?
	I don't know.
	You know, I'm not going to argue that with you, because I'm simply not for cruelty to animals, and I am for all the things that you really want to do.
	It's just that even if we had all those done, Bruce and PETA would not be happy.
	That's... Let me toss out a sort of role play here for a second, okay?
	Okay.
	Let's suspend reality and imagine an invasion from outer space.
	I do that all the time.
	There you go.
	Beings land and they communicate only telepathically and in a language we don't understand.
	Right.
	They're far more intelligent than we are.
	They're far more powerful and they have an ability to take us into captivity and they do that.
	Yes.
	And they cram some of us into solitary pens.
	They force feed and ground up the remains of other human beings and they feed them back to us.
	To serve man.
	We live our entire... well, to serve the alien race.
	We serve our entire lives standing in our own feces, breathing in the fumes, and many of us die from these crowded and filthy conditions.
	They're castrating the men without painkillers, they're artificially inseminating the women, and turning them into milk machines.
	They're taking the women's babies away... You're talking about the greys.
	Well, no, what I'm basically saying here is That we have turned animals into these beings that are useful only to the degree to which we can use them.
	And that is as unjustified as turning other human beings this way.
	We may be more intelligent than animals.
	We certainly have the capacity to turn animals into machines and to use them as so many inanimate objects, so many boxes in a warehouse, but that doesn't make it right.
	And I would ask people to remember that from the 1520s until the 1860s, we did treat human beings that way.
	We treated African American human beings that way.
	for more time on this continent than we've not treated them that way.
	It was only 140 years ago that we had slavery in this country.
	But Bruce, I honestly do view people and animals, much as I love them, in a different category.
	Well, I understand that, and society tends to view them in a different category as well.
	But I would posit that in 100 years, we're going to look back on our present-day treatment of animals With the same horror and revulsion that we presently reserve for the way we look back at it.
	That may well be, but Bruce, I don't think they're going to have a Bill of Rights.
	Well, I think they're going to have a Bill of Rights in the same way that human beings, like babies, who also can't give back to society, or human beings who are mentally deficient can't give back to society.
	Animals deserve to be protected from exploitation in the same way that other human beings deserve to be protected from exploitation.
	regardless of their capacity to fulfill on the social contract lot of people
	want to talk to you and uh... so i should not hard you
	uh... uh... while carolina on the air with bruce friedrich of pita hello
	i didn't really from largo florida well andy and i think our good at work at brook
	okay don't get defensive just hear me out don't interrupt okay i think you got a lot of good ideas and
	your intent good but i think you're kind of stuck with a metal with a metaphor and don't
	realize this reference example is a documentary on the nomadic opulent diet
	or else they could carry our track And they talk about the natural rhythms of the earth.
	In other words, if everybody just stopped eating chicken and meat and everything else like that, you know, in about three months, and I was told this by a friend of mine who's really into math and stuff, that the earth's rhythms would be thrown off.
	And not only that, here's a quick little story.
	I got a friend, Mike, where I used to live in Michigan.
	And he met this girl, and she wanted to be a photographer, and she wanted to be a model, and her parents lived in upstate New York.
	So he moved away with her for six months.
	Well, he took a couple weeks off and came back home.
	Well, she was a vegetarian, and her mother was a vegetarian, but her father wasn't.
	And her father is now a retired neurologist.
	And I've talked to him, and there's a lot of other professionals I've talked to who don't agree with you as far as It being good for the body.
	Anyway, when Mike came back home, he looked different.
	Because, you know, he turned a vegetarian.
	You know, he kept his faith.
	He hung in there for six months.
	But when he came back, you know, according to vegetarians, he was healthy.
	But, you know, I know him.
	I grew up with him.
	He looked ill.
	His complexion looked off.
	He didn't look right.
	He said he felt kind of okay, but in a way, he just felt like there was something missing.
	You see, Mike, that's right.
	People say they feel great, but To the rest of us, they look emaciated, their color is poor.
	Right.
	We bought some ground shuck, and you know, we got fed up, and I was making hamburgers, and I turned on the gas grill, and he was like, God, that smells good.
	And anyway, we talked him into eating one.
	He said, don't tell my old lady, please.
	Well, no, we won't.
	You know, my buddies are on five of us.
	He sat there, and he ate three of them.
	Within 20 minutes.
	And within 20 minutes, his whole complexion changed.
	And it's like the blood was flowing again.
	And then within 45 minutes, once these proteins were hitting his bloodstream, he said, Andy, I feel alive.
	And Art, he was just glowing.
	And there's a lot of medical science professionals out there who will back up this claim.
	I know.
	Look, I believe every word you said, Bruce.
	The guy is right.
	No, the guy is very much not right.
	You can certainly be an unhealthy vegetarian.
	It's easier to be an unhealthy carnivore.
	The fact is, these foods are laden with saturated fat and cholesterol.
	They're devoid of carbohydrates and fiber.
	And people like Michael Eisner, Steve Jobs, Pamela Anderson, Kim Basinger, Jenny Garth, Many, many people have adopted vegetarian diets.
	They're doing just fine, thank you.
	And if you go into the diet not wanting to do it, as this fellow obviously did, if you eat nothing but Twizzlers and Coca-Cola, certainly you're going to waste away, and you're going to be pale, and you're going to have problems.
	But the fact is, even the American Dietetic Association, who gets awards from the meat industry, the Heart Association, the Cancer Society, the USDA, For gracious sake, all of these people and the medical evidence could not be more conclusive.
	If you want to stave off heart disease, cancer, stroke, obesity, the biggest killers, the worst health problems we're having in this country, a veggie diet is the way to go.
	Okay, listen, this is very important.
	Okay.
	This is backed up by a friend of mine who's not only a doctor in philosophy, but he's also a veterinarian.
	Let me talk about the veg hotline before we go to break.
	Well, alright.
	Call or stay on the line.
	I'll bring you back.
	What is the Veggie Hotline?
	It's toll free.
	We'll send a free vegetarian starter pack.
	It's 888-VEGFOOD.
	888-VEG-F-O-O-D.
	Our expense.
	Free information.
	Free information.
	That's 888-VEGFOOD.
	What a cutesy number.
	I hate those things.
	During the break, figure out what the real number is for me, alright?
	I sure will.
	Alright.
	Stay right there.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 17th, 1999.
	I'm Dr. Dina Dutt.
	Welcome to the Coast to Coast.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 17th, 1999.
	Good morning, everybody.
	I'm Art Bell.
	And... I have not told anybody tonight, but I've been switching my headsets.
	You know, the headset microphone?
	I've got a brand new one, and I used it in the first hour.
	And then, in the second hour, I went back to my old one, And now I'm coming back to my new one again.
	And what I just discovered is I can no longer swing around and empty my ashtray in the trash can without ripping my own head off.
	So there's one big difference right away.
	Others now that I've said something will say, well yes, I can hear the difference in the audio.
	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	When you look at what's going on around this planet, it's almost as if someone has got a playbook to try to control all these countries all of a sudden.
	I've always said that not everything is a conspiracy, but a lot of it is.
	You know, when you start looking into things, there's only certain set of conclusions you can reach, and unfortunately, this is one of them.
	You know, it's very, very hard not to see things like that when you start looking at things in a larger picture.
	Coast to Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
	Now, you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
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	No special app is necessary to enjoy our new mobile site.
	Simply visit coasttocoastam.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
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	Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure.
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	If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
	Visit coast2coastam.com to sign up today.
	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
	I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by a mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
	Governments won't do that.
	And the reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
	They think that they'll lose control of us.
	Yes, if we know.
	If you actually truly believed that we were being visited by extraterrestrials and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that government throws out all the time?
	Absolutely not!
	You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
	And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
	So, the bottom line is, government will never, ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
	You're listening to Arc Bell, Somewhere in Time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 17th, 1999.
	Before we go back to my wild card line caller, and we're going to, I want to ask Bruce a
	First of all, I guess, let's get that number.
	1-888-VEG-FOOD turns out to be actually what?
	888.
	Don't dial 800 or there's a caterer who will be annoyed.
	888-834-VEG.
	834-3663.
	It's 834-3663.
	There's also a flashing link on meatstinks.com so people can get the same veg pack through the web.
	You're saying if you dial 800 you reach a caterer by mistake?
	Yeah, there's a vegetarian caterer who has 1-800-VEG-TOO.
	Oh, okay.
	I was wondering if he catered meat.
	No, no, no.
	Look, I really want a straight out answer on this.
	On which?
	The question I'm about to ask, and then we'll go back to this caller, who's got more for you, I know.
	My straight-up question is, do you support, in spirit, or in more than spirit, the groups that are out there burning down labs and clinics?
	Do I personally?
	You know what I'm talking about.
	The Animal Liberation Front.
	Do you support them?
	I personally or PETA?
	I mean, I don't know that it's really... Well, I'll take both.
	I'll take both views.
	Okay.
	Yours and PETA's.
	Okay.
	Well, I personally don't do that, and PETA... I didn't say do it.
	I didn't say do it.
	I said do you support them in principle?
	In principle, now the Animal Liberation Front has as part of its credo that All steps are taken to not harm an animal or a human being.
	I understand that.
	Sure, and it seems to me that the level of violence that's perpetrated against animals, I'm certainly not going to condemn people who decide that the violence is just too great.
	Well, why would you not condemn people, Bruce, who break the law?
	Well, Art, because some laws are unjust.
	The laws that allow animals to be treated like boxes in a warehouse.
	I mean, you were raging away at McDonald's a little while ago, but to support groups that would burn down a lab?
	You know, considering McDonald's is in great disdain for animal welfare, I would blame people for burning every McDonald's to the ground.
	Oh, good Lord.
	That's horrible.
	I'm sorry that you disagree with me.
	No, no, no.
	Absolutely.
	You've really gone over the line now.
	You've really gone over the line now, because on the one hand, you complain about the way you perceive their treatment of animals to be, and you say, well, they're breaking the law because of this, and on the other hand, out of your mouth comes, well, I wouldn't blame people for burning down all the McDonald's.
	That's a horrendous violation of the law.
	And so, Bruce, the law is the law.
	The law is the law, Bruce.
	Some laws are meant to be broken.
	Yeah, but apparently the ones you don't like.
	Well, I think that Martin Luther King Jr.
	said very, very well that an unjust law is no law at all.
	But you got it all backwards.
	I would be in favor of Improving the conditions of the animals, so that the laws are not broken, and not seeing anything burned down.
	You know, I see your position as very inconsistent, and that's fine.
	We don't put any of our resources, time, or effort into burning anything down.
	No, I understand that, but you are in sympathy with a group that does do that.
	In sympathy with... Anyway, here's the caller back again.
	Wildcard Line, you're back on.
	Hi Art, thanks for keeping me over.
	Sure.
	I don't know.
	Basically, in my ending thoughts, I got a lot of friends that are professionals, from vets to internal medicine specialists.
	In my ending thoughts, of all the medical professionals I've talked to about this issue, why does it seem that 90% of them have this to say?
	Though they don't like to talk about it, meaning vegetarians, an alarming percent of them have to take another protein source, vitamin-based.
	These mineral-based sources are the same mineral-based proteins that we get That we non-vegetarians get in our daily diet.
	Okay?
	Thank you for my call.
	Alright, alright.
	And we'll listen now to the answer.
	Now he made a very good point.
	That vegetarians are forced to take supplements that one would normally associate with the
	eating of meat.
	He made two points.
	And the first one he made earlier had to do with the earth's natural rhythm.
	I would just point out that we're factory farming more than 8 billion animals every single year.
	Chickens live fewer than two months.
	Pigs live fewer than six.
	We've turned these animals into so many boxes in a warehouse.
	The violence perpetrated against these animals is so extreme.
	And the crap, the pesticides and herbicides dumped on their food, and also the... Nobody's in favor of that.
	Bruce, did you hear the bumper music I was playing?
	Right, but that's what happened.
	Listen, listen, listen, listen, Bruce.
	You know what that is?
	That's Native American stuff.
	I understand that.
	Do you?
	And what do they do?
	And what do they still do when they have the opportunity?
	When there were buffalo around, they killed buffalo and they ate buffalo.
	And Native Americans are as close to the original rhythm of the earth as you can get.
	Well, we're not Native Americans.
	We're Americans who have turned animals into so many machines and so many boxes in a warehouse, and the suffering and the misery and the cruelty is so unimaginably extreme.
	And these slaughterhouses are so violent and so bloody, they're routinely skinning these animals alive, dipping these animals into boiling hot water for hair removal, Well, they're still conscious and kicking.
	This is the violence you're supporting.
	No, I'm not.
	I'm not supporting it.
	Well, you're paying for it, Art.
	I'm going out of my way.
	Well, I suppose that is certainly true.
	But that, I will admit, is some sort of inconsistency on my part.
	But I see a big one on your part, Bruce.
	Well, Andy's second point, having to do with the medical professionals, is just patently absurd.
	The medical professionals have lined up to support a vegetarian diet.
	You're not going to find condemnation of a vegetarian diet from any established health organization.
	The Pediatric Society, the American Heart Association, the Cancer Society, the American Medical Association, even the USDA, which basically works as a spokes drone for the meat and dairy industry in this country, even the USDA and their dietary recommendations for Americans, says that a vegetarian diet is an excellent diet for
	preventing heart disease cancer. But do they, do they say, does the USDA say
	you should not eat meat?
	No. They don't say you shouldn't eat meat, but they say you'll be healthier if you
	don't, which is basically the same thing. All of the peer review
	literature... All right, look, we could go at it and go at it. And I'm going to pass these to the Rockies.
	You're on the air with Bruce and Art.
	Hello? Hello?
	Going once. You waited... Hello? Hello?
	Yes, you're on the air, sir.
	Oh, okay.
	All right.
	Let's rock and roll.
	I'm calling from Indianapolis, Indiana.
	All right.
	And, uh, I might have missed him or so.
	I said I'm a member of PETA.
	Let me put it this way.
	My mom's a member, and I believe in all this about not experimenting on animals.
	And she says, Mike, you know, you really ought to give money to this and that.
	Okay, fine.
	They send me literature, and I'll be honest, I don't read a whole lot of it.
	I don't have the time.
	But, uh, from what I gather, I go along with not, you know, I don't like them, you know, these animals, you know, She's got perfume, that kind of garbage, but the food thing, I mean, like you were saying earlier, Art, I mean, the stuff tastes good.
	Yeah.
	And, uh, you know, I mean, you know, let's face it, McDonald's double cheeseburger's pretty good, okay?
	Oh, they're delicious.
	They're quarter pounders.
	Nothing compares to it.
	But I, you know, I give her money to sit in for me, and they always send me this stuff.
	I say, all right, I'll read it.
	But, uh, to advocate burning down McDonald's, that kind of thing... Yeah, I know, that's terrible.
	That's absolutely terrible.
	I agree with you sir.
	So there's somebody who gives to your organization because he opposes cruelty.
	I think we should look and see where the violence is really being done.
	If a McDonald's burns down and no one is hurt, who is harmed by that?
	You know what it's called?
	It's called arson.
	It's a very serious law, Bruce.
	It's called arson.
	Right, and if these were, and I'm not saying it's exactly the same thing, but what I am saying is that it would still be arson.
	If these were concentration camp gas ovens being burned to the ground, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
	No, we wouldn't.
	See, and the fact is, it would still be arson, and it would still be in violation of the law, and it would still be just, and it would still be the right thing to do.
	What I'm going to point out to you is that the law is the law, and I'm sure you're not really, or maybe you are in favor of arson.
	What do I know?
	You shouldn't be.
	But I agree with you that some laws regarding the treatment of animals certainly should change.
	I'm all for that.
	And I think the best way you can get constructive change, ultimately Bruce, and I really mean this, is not by burning down McDonald's restaurants, but by engaging them in constructive discussion.
	We've been attempting to engage them in constructive discussion for over two years.
	But Bruce, you've already told me That at least they're talking to you.
	And what about all of these other people who would slam the door in your face and probably kick you in the shins if they could?
	McDonald's is completely unwilling to do one thing.
	to commit and actually show some positive constructive change for animal
	welfare. Keep at them. We've been talking to them for two years and I agree with you.
	It's an important thing to do. I think that talking and negotiation is
	important. I think demonstrations are important. I know but you... I think letter writing...
	Do you know what would happen if you went to a lot of other restaurant chains? They'd run... they'd throw you out
	on your behind and at least McDonald's is talking to you So if not now, then maybe in the fairly near future, you'll get somewhere with them.
	Maybe they'll be the breakthrough organization.
	And who knows?
	Maybe it won't be because more McDonald's burned down.
	I don't know.
	See, that's where you go off.
	Totally off the cliff.
	The law really is the law.
	You're trying, on the one hand, to change it within the system.
	You're saying, this law stinks, so we're going to break it.
	Martin Luther King Jr.
	was sitting down and refusing to leave the establishments that wouldn't serve people a basic lunch.
	He wasn't burning them down.
	But he was breaking the law.
	You're the one who's saying the law is the law.
	Civil disobedience has a long and well-respected history in this country.
	And, you know, dumping the tea.
	There's a hell of a lot of differences between the founding of this country but the law is the law.
	Do you know what would happen if you dumped a bunch of tea today?
	The EPA would arrest your butt.
	That's true enough.
	All right.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Bruce Friedrich.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Mike in Denver.
	Hi, Mike.
	I just want to thank you for taking my call, and I love the show so far, and your guest points, but I have to ask him a few questions, like three or... One, like you said, the law is the law, and it's a cruel world in nature, and you've got to eat, and the laws of nature dictate That a lot of animals are carnivorous and violently kill their prey.
	What makes it different or immoral for humans?
	Well, in the same way, Mike, that you may be smaller than me or you may be bigger than me.
	I don't know.
	We're on the phone.
	But if you're smaller than me, the law of nature would dictate that if I like your car, I take it.
	But the law of society says we have morals and we have standards and I don't do that.
	And the law of nature might say that if we get in a disagreement, we fight to the death, but that doesn't mean human beings are going to legalize homicide.
	We're not going to do that.
	We're going to hold ourselves to an ethic of compassion and mercy.
	And again, it just boils down to this.
	We all know that it would be wrong to torture or kill a dog or a cat.
	Why are we willing, for a simple palate preference, because it tastes good, why are we willing to suspend reality and force so much misery and violence and bloodshed on humans?
	You know, it's all a matter of perspective.
	Actually, the Thai people, for example, Um, do we, the Filipinos, uh, do we occasionally eat dogs and cats?
	We eat them.
	And other countries eat them, too.
	And it horrifies some people, and it's so amusing, you know, because I get these calls from people saying, oh my god, do you realize they're eating dogs in Thailand?
	And I think it's kind of a double standard.
	It is, and I say, you migrationists, do you think we're doing anything like that here?
	You know, and people are flummoxed.
	But the reality is, there isn't a moral difference.
	Between factory farming and eating a dog or a cat?
	Or factory farming and eating any other animal?
	Well, what makes humans different from the rest of animals who can go out there and hunt and sneak up on and attack and violently kill their prey?
	Just like we would scare to death a cow in a slaughterhouse.
	What makes us so different from those animals?
	We gotta eat!
	Is there enough vegan food in the world to feed everybody without all the meat?
	Well, the reality again, and this goes back to the reason I went vegan in the first place 12 years ago, the reality is that we feed more than 70% of our grains in this country.
	About 80% we feed to animals.
	And it's the worst thing that we're doing to the environment.
	So you have to put 20... Animals live their lives.
	You have to put 20 calories into an animal to get one calorie out of an animal.
	We could feed vastly more people.
	on an exclusively vegan diet because the land would be used more efficiently.
	We also wouldn't be destroying the topsoil by dumping the herbicides and pesticides onto it that we couldn't dump onto it.
	Yeah, and if that's all you had was vegetables to eat, it would taste like crap.
	But I think that's an awesome answer.
	Well, the reality today is that we have faux meats for absolutely every occasion.
	If you can do it with animal products, you can do it just as effectively without them, just as deliciously, but without the cholesterol, without the saturated fat, and hopefully without the pangs of conscience.
	Not just as deliciously.
	No way.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I think so.
	You've got to try some vegan foods, Art.
	Oh, look, I eat vegetables.
	I don't particularly like vegetables.
	I eat them because I'm told that I have to eat some.
	That's the only reason.
	They're doing with grains and soy and beans and texturized vegetable protein.
	It's amazing what they're doing with it.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Look, I'll tell you something.
	I lived in Japan for ten years and you would go by these stores where they would have these, oh man, these beautiful, beautiful chocolate cakes.
	Well, they look delicious, and you would go in and you would buy them, and you know what they'd turn out to be?
	They turn out to be made out of soy.
	They tasted horrible.
	You bit into it and you expect a chocolate cake, and you get this horrid little soy mixture of... It was not tolerable.
	Bruce, hold on.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 17th, 1999.
	Shutting down all your peri-picking With my nine years in creeping ground, my bad bitch
	Shutting down all your peri-picking With my nine years in creeping ground, my bad bitch
	She's been sucking like a queen in a saver's dream And she don't wanna say what she really means
	Sometimes I think it's a shame When I get feeling better when I'm feeling no pain
	Sometimes I think it's a shame When I get feeling better when I'm feeling no pain
	I got a picture of me moved by a man, but he's not I got a picture of me moved by a man, but he's not
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 17, 1999.
	Good morning, everybody.
	Bruce Friedrich from PETA is here.
	That's People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.
	But not restaurants.
	Now we take you back to the night of August 7th.
	And now we take you back to the night of August 7th.
	17th 1999 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Here we go again with Bruce Friedrich of PETA and we're going to go to the phones in this
	segment this last half hour.
	And so, here you are.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Bruce Friedrich.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Where are you?
	Northern California.
	Okay.
	My name's Larry.
	Hi Larry.
	What your guest has been saying, and I've been listening to him for some time here now this evening, and I know for a fact, from listening to him, that he knows that what he's laying out, a lot of it, is a bunch of bull.
	He's not giving you the truth.
	That low-calorie, all-vegetable diet that is clearing up the cholesterol out of the bloodstream, it's not clearing it up because of being an all-vegetable diet.
	It's clearing it up because of it being a low-fat diet.
	Low in saturated fats.
	Now, if they fry that food up in a bunch of hydrogenated vegetable oil, their cholesterol is going to shoot up as high as a person living on pork.
	Yeah, I think you're actually making a very good point.
	And you can buy, if you do it, extremely lean meat.
	Right, Bruce?
	Well, the leanest meat is still about 30% fat and laden with cholesterol.
	And I would just point out, I mean, quoting from Newsweek, your web guy has just linked to Dean Ornish's book, and quoting from Newsweek, it says, Dr. Ornish's work could change the lives of millions.
	At the end of the year, most patients reported that their chest pains had virtually disappeared.
	For 82%, arterial clogging had reversed.
	Again, that's never happened in human history before Ornish.
	They started to feel better almost immediately, and today they feel great.
	Dr. Ornish's patients are thrilled with their lives.
	By the standards of conventional medicine, the impossible happened.
	From Esquire, Dr. Dean Ornish is the first clinician to offer documented proof that heart disease can be halted or even reversed simply by changing your lifestyle.
	Participants reduced or discontinued medications, their chest pain diminished or disappeared, they felt more energetic, happy and calm, they lost weight while eating more, and blockages in coronary arteries actually began to reverse.
	The only other person who's ever done this, also with a low-fat vegetarian diet, published in the latest issue of the American Journal of Cardiology, Dr. Esselstyn at the Cleveland Clinic.
	On and on you go.
	Bruce, listen to me.
	They've also got a new drug, which I can't name, which cleans out your arteries.
	What about that?
	So you eat all the meat you want, you clean out your arteries.
	Well, so far with drugs, they've never been able to clean out people's arteries.
	With the exception of this one study from the Cleveland Clinic in the latest journal, the American Journal of Cardiology.
	And that also required a low-fat vegetarian diet.
	And the caller's right, you can be an unhealthy vegetarian.
	It's harder to do, and even the leanest cuts of meat are still laden with cholesterol, laden with saturated fat relative to their vegetarian counterparts.
	Well, why then are so many vegetarians looking maciated?
	Why do so many vegetarians look sick?
	Anytime you feel like dropping by our offices, Art, I surely encourage you to do it.
	I think, you know... But how can I believe it?
	Because here I've got a story saying half of the vegetarians lie!
	And they eat meat!
	We had that discussion already.
	We did, but I mean... If you're going to point to some real bulked-up person and say, look here, a healthy vegetarian... It's not that people were lying when they were asked, have you had any meat in the last month?
	Half of them said yes.
	The reality is if you're a vegetarian for ethical reasons, it means when you sit down to eat, you're not dining on tortured beings.
	Period.
	Ever.
	Call her.
	Call her.
	We have a caller.
	Call her.
	Yeah, he just did it again and I got a whole bunch of points because I raise cattle and I raise chickens.
	yeah and uh... so well he did it again he just said the leaders meet you can
	get his thirty percent fat and that's a pile of all it's almost impossible to find me to anywhere near thirty
	percent that anymore
	the lean meat is is twenty percent fat maximum and the extra lean meat is
	ten percent you know what you're absolutely right because i've seen that on the
	labels in the grocery stores what you need to percent no you can milk
	label two percent and read it the colorically that milk is thirty percent or
	more it's it's a calorie thing has opposed to a weight thing
	So what people really need to do is monitor their caloric intake.
	Dairy fat doesn't hurt you one bit because dairy fat is a monounsaturated fat that is incapable of solidifying in the bloodstream at body temperature, so it never does pack up and clog arteries or anything.
	I drink a gallon a day of raw milk and I have a cholesterol level of 82.
	I'm not sure a cholesterol level of 82 is physically possible.
	Maybe you're talking about either your LDL or your HDL.
	No.
	But I am talking overall total number.
	Then you have obviously a zero chance of a heart attack.
	And not every meat eater is going to die of a heart attack.
	But the average meat eater's cholesterol level is over 200.
	And the average vegan's cholesterol level is 123.
	I would encourage people to read.
	They like to eat a lot of fatty meat.
	Larry, I would encourage people to check the labels.
	Because the reality is calorie for calorie, the leanest cuts of meat are still 30% fat.
	And they might be 10% fat by weight.
	But what people need to do is monitor their caloric intake.
	How many calories are they taking in?
	And they need to reduce that.
	And even the leanest cuts are where the fat is cut.
	And 10% fat by weight fat has.
	has a calorie content of 9 calories per gram of fat, whereas protein and carbohydrate are
	4 calories per gram.
	And so if you got 10% of your weight is in fat, then the most you can have is 21% of
	your calories coming from fat.
	I didn't say the leanest cut.
	You have to do the math first.
	I would encourage people, well you are the one who is talking about the leanest cuts
	of meat being 10% fat, which I think is not possible.
	I didn't say the leanest cut, I said that the extra lean is 10% fat and you can get
	meat that has all the fat trimmed off of it and has virtually no marbling in the meat
	whatsoever, which is what has become very popular today because of the limousine cattle
	that they are raising out there that don't put on a lot of fat the way the Hereford's
	do and the Angus do.
	Here's where Bruce goes over the line, because even that kind of beef, he would be just as opposed to whatever he really thinks is over the line.
	He would be opposed to both.
	I would encourage people to read labels and read the medical literature.
	The only nutritionist whose program is covered by the insurance companies is Dr. Dean Ornish.
	He's helping people lose weight.
	He's helping people unclog their arteries.
	He's doing it with a low-fat vegetarian diet.
	He's one of two people who have ever done that.
	The other person also requires a low-fat vegetarian diet.
	You can certainly be an unhealthy vegetarian, and we don't advocate that, but it's much easier to be an unhealthy meat eater, because no matter how much meat you eat, you're not going to get one gram of fiber.
	You're not going to get one gram of carbohydrates.
	Those are the things we need to keep our bodies in good working order.
	Even the leanest cuts of meat, calorie for calorie, and go check it out, even the leanest cuts of meat, calorie for calorie, are roughly 30% fat and still latent.
	If you want some good high fiber food, go to McDonald's.
	McDonald's happens to be the very biggest customer of warehouser because they buy sawdust from warehouser,
	they put sawdust into their meat, they put sawdust into their buns and everything,
	their milkshakes are made out of sawdust instead of ice cream.
	Are you serious?
	It may sound bad, but really all it is is fiber, and that fiber cleans out the bloodstream.
	It cleans out your digestive system.
	It's good for you.
	Hey Larry, are you serious?
	Do you really believe that McDonald's puts sawdust in their food?
	I happen to know they do.
	Well, you know, whether they do or not, I want to ask you a question.
	Hold on, sir.
	Hold on.
	You raise cattle, right?
	Yes.
	Are you cruel to them?
	No.
	In fact, I'm much nicer to them than they are.
	I raise polled cattle.
	The reason, and they're naturally polled, it's a genetic thing in the breeding, the reason I like polled cattle is because the cattle kill each other with their horns.
	Just because they get a wild hair up their butt, they get angry, and they kill each other, goring each other to death.
	And if you've ever had to charge out there and wrestle a 1,400 pound cow down to the ground because she is killing her offspring, Yeah, just because she decided that right at that moment she didn't want to let it drink out of the pond.
	Yeah, that's okay.
	Okay, thank you.
	You sound like a truly humane steward, Larry.
	That's nature, though.
	He is describing a process in nature.
	He is describing somebody who's raising animals for food and is not being compassionate to them at all.
	Well, he was trying to say they're not particularly compassionate to each other.
	Compassion as we understand it, and compassion as an animal might or might not understand it are two very different things.
	Well, my experience of cows growing up in Oklahoma is that they're extremely docile, pleasant animals, and I used to cut across a field of cows oftentimes when we would be running cross-country, and I certainly never saw a cow express any excitement or attack another cow.
	I think that's quite unlikely.
	You're on the air, yes.
	You'll have to yell at us so you're not loud.
	Where are you, sir?
	I'm in Sacramento, California, talking from 650 KSTE.
	Right.
	Let's just say, for discussion's sake, that PETA laws were on the books.
	What would be the punishment for your first, second, and third offense for eating meat?
	Alright, that's an excellent question.
	Let's say That PETA had its absolute way.
	That PETA was the food czar of America.
	And that PETA constructed laws exactly the way PETA wanted them.
	What would be the punishment for the first, second, and third violations with reference to eating meat?
	My gracious, in PETA's ideal world, it's a moral and compassionate society where people are merciful and people are kind to animals.
	People aren't violating the laws in people's ideal world.
	In the ideal world, PETA would have laws nevertheless, because it is not truly an ideal world, right?
	Okay.
	So there'd have to be laws and PETA would make them.
	And there would be violations for eating meat in PETA's world old laws.
	And so what would those be?
	I can't even, you know, we're so far from that reality.
	A million people a year are turning vegetarian.
	It's a very exciting statistic, and it is the best diet for health, environment, and certainly... How many vegetarians die every year?
	I'm not sure, but the net total, the net gain is about a million a year, and according to the National Restaurant Association, Twenty percent of college students identify themselves as vegetarians, and the point you make is certainly legitimate.
	Some of them probably are eating some meat, but it's still very exciting, and the vegetarian world is coming, and it's coming voluntarily because people are realizing that they don't have to eat meat.
	They'll be healthier without it.
	It's the only environmentally sound choice.
	But it's also the only choice that gives even, you know, a mild nod to animal welfare.
	Yeah, but for somebody who said a little while ago that he didn't care if they burned down every McDonald's, which is arson, arson, arson, times gazillions.
	I said I wouldn't blame people for doing it.
	Alright, whatever it is you said.
	For you to say that and then, you know, to go out on that limb and refuse to go out on a limb where PETA had its way and made the laws regarding eating of meat, That's... Come on!
	Come out on this limb!
	Well, I'm sorry, Eric, but we're so far from that.
	And in our ideal world, people aren't violating that law.
	Well, we're pretty far from burning down restaurants, too.
	People are treating animals respectfully.
	And since people are not presently treating animals respectfully, since anything goes... And I'll tell you, we documented a turkey truck accident.
	The driver told us it was the fourth accident in two weeks.
	This was last year, just before Thanksgiving, because the trucks were so overloaded for Thanksgiving.
	They had 1,400 turkeys on the back of this transport truck.
	The truck turned over and it took them more than 12 hours to reload the remaining...
	About 600 of the animals died.
	About 600 of the animals they just picked up, loaded right back onto the truck and drove
	them through the noon heat to the slaughterhouse.
	Six more hours to the slaughterhouse.
	Every single one of those animals with broken bones.
	You know there wasn't a law to prevent that?
	It seems to me the laws need revision.
	Well I don't...
	I agree with you.
	And until the laws are revised...
	I absolutely agree with you.
	Until the laws are revised, people should not be supporting economically.
	Every time you put it down to eat...
	If you're eating meat, you are supporting cruelty to animals.
	If you wouldn't do it to a dog or a cat, you should ask your brother.
	The problem here, Bruce, is that even in that impossible, perfect world, where the laws were the way you wanted them, you still wouldn't want people eating meat.
	That's true.
	Yeah, we wouldn't want people eating other human beings.
	We wouldn't want people eating animals.
	Animals are not a means to an end any more than other human beings are a means to an end.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Bruce Friedrich.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	East of the Rockies, going once.
	Hello.
	Yes, you're on the air.
	Yes, hi.
	This is David from Philadelphia.
	Hi, David.
	Hi.
	I have a couple of points to bring up.
	I actually have, sometimes, someone who has been a vegetarian for many years And actually engaged in a vegan diet for several years.
	Yes.
	And you grew puny and weak, right?
	Not really, but I was fairly meticulous about it in terms of nutrition and making sure I got my requirements.
	But what I will say is that there's an interesting body of research that has to do with the blood typing of the human being.
	Excuse me, I'm getting nervous here for a second.
	And what that body research says, and that's by Dr. Peter D'Adamo, and that body research says that as they looked at blood types, they found out that type O's were generally predisposed to meat eating.
	And I'm a type O, by the way.
	Right, and myself as well.
	And type A's were really, their best diet was A vegetarian diet.
	See, the O's are saying, oh, but that's good, that meat is good.
	And the A's, well, I'll leave that to your imagination.
	And because those people come from primarily an agricultural culture, and type B's are nomadic, so they really have more of a fruit and nut and some meat type of diet.
	So that is kind of an interesting thing.
	I think this is an incredible Subject that's just and we can need to keep exploring it, but I haven't started to incorporate some meat in my diet, but what I do do is to use Antibiotic and hormone free free range organic meat and I and the humaneness issue is a big issue to me And I think that me too in that regard.
	I agree with you know Bruce completely But I think that there's there's some other aspects that as we go through this continued understanding of what this all means,
	that we need to try to encourage the meat growers to use, I think it's appalling, obviously
	we all feel that way, but we need to encourage
	the humanity aspect and the organic and the antibiotic...
	Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
	I mean, it's just a no-brainer to me.
	I agree with Bruce that that aspect should definitely be emphasized, that we should try and change the laws and make things better for the animals.
	We shouldn't be cruel.
	We should take every step we can to be humane.
	But take away my hamburger and you'll have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands.
	Well, David raises, I think, a couple of very interesting points, and I'm going to start with the second one, and encourage people, if you're going to absolutely eat meat, please, you know, have a bit of integrity about it.
	Visit the farm where the animals are raised, and visit the slaughterhouse.
	And if you can't do that, if you can't visit the farm, if you can't visit the slaughterhouse, I think you should be very circumspect about where these animals are coming from, because I've been to About a dozen of these so-called free-range places.
	And the animals aren't treated any better because there aren't any government regulations about what free-range means.
	So that's one thing.
	And free-range animals end up generally in the exact same slaughterhouses as their non-free-range counterparts.
	Ten to twenty percent of them are skinned alive and dismembered while they're still fully conscious.
	It's an awful reality.
	And people who want more information on that, there's a book called Slaughterhouse.
	That I can't recommend more highly.
	We probably will just absolutely terrorize you, I'm sure.
	Well, it's a gruesome book, and it's based on affidavits from slaughterhouse workers about the huge proportion of animals that are skinned while they're fully conscious.
	I know, and if you read what's in hot dogs, it'll make you sick, but hot dogs are great.
	Well, it seems to me we should try to get, you know, what we say to be in line with how we actually live our lives.
	We should try to You know, have some correlation between our rhetoric and our reality.
	Well, I'm with you part of the way, partner.
	Listen, it's been a super pleasure having you on the program.
	Let's give out your number again, because I know a lot of people will call us.
	Our toll-free vegetarian hotline is 888-VEG-FOOD.
	888-VEG-FOOD. 888-834-3663. People can also visit us on the web at www.meatstinks.com.
	Who thought that one up?
	It's something Pete has been using for quite a while.
	We have Meat Stinks literature and also Meat Stinks posters, so it made sense to grab that.
	All rotten vegetables stink, too.
	Well, the Meat Stinks website, it says, Meat Stinks for the Earth.
	Well, it's been interesting having you on the air, Bruce, and I'll have you on again because you're so interesting and radical.
	It's been my pleasure.
	How about a little of that Kobe beef?
	meat eating. Well, it's been interesting having you on the air Bruce and I'll have you on again
	because you're so interesting and radical and you need reforming. How about a little of that
	Kobe beef? I mean I might send you some of that Kobe beef.
	I think I'll pass, although anytime you want to drop in on us we'd be happy to serve you a
	wonderful vegan meal.
	Which would probably consist of green stringy things.
	No, we would make sure that it was, because of this conversation, we would make sure that you liked it.
	We would make sure that many meat-eaters cannot tell the difference.
	Well, listen, if I was willing to try whatever it is, you would foist off on me.
	as something i should be eating then why wouldn't you try my kobe beef which had
	been massaged well it's when you're willing to question though when you're
	willing to cut that deal then we'll we'll both give it a shot
	bruce thanks it's my pleasure thank you good night that's it for tonight folks we're out of time tomorrow
	night richard c hoagland is here and then the following night it's going to be y2k
	and gary north and it's been a while
	I'm Art Bell from the high desert.

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