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Aug. 17, 1999 - Art Bell

02:53:42

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Bruce Friedrich - People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals

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01:01:45

bruce friedrich

53:32

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Arkbell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring coast to coast a.m. from August 17th, 1999.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning, as the case may be, and welcome to another edition of Whatever It Is We Do in the middle of the night from the Sahitan and Hawaiian Islands chain southwest eastwards of the Caribbean and the West Virgin Islands,
		California, and St. Thomas, south into South America, north, all the way to the Pole, and worldwide on the internet, ThanksgivingBroadcast.com and the Intel Corporation for what is known as G2, which means you can go to my website,
		download the G2 player free of charge, switch into my computer, then come back to my website and click on streaming video, and you will see me doing the show live.
		Sort of a talking head affair, as it were.
unidentified		A lot of people seem to like it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, we did begin this as an experimental thing, and it's really already gone past its experimental time, and we may or may not keep doing it very much longer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure.
unidentified		We'll find out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll decide.
		I'll decide.
		I guess that's something that I've got to chew over, but we are now well past, you know, the experimental agreed upon time to do this.
		Now, they're...
		And they're tempting me into staying on further.
unidentified		We'll see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The top story, of course, the earthquake in Turkey, which has now killed more than 2,000 people.
		It was 7.8 on the Richter scale.
		And anytime you get up toward an 8 earthquake, you can be pretty sure that a lot of buildings are going to come down and a lot of people are going to die inside the buildings.
		And that, of course, is what has occurred.
		A very, very strong earthquake, followed, by the way, by about a 5.0 in the Bay Area.
		And I guess it did sway office buildings in San Francisco, rattled homes about 50 miles south in San Jose.
unidentified		So I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Earthquakes come in waves.
		And they occur at disparate parts of the world as well.
		The Cassini probe should have come as close to Earth as it is going to come at about 8.28 here in the West, 1128 in the East, and should now be on its way on out.
		And thank God it went all right.
		But NASA officials did say there was a 1 in 1.2 million chance of an accidental re-entry.
		And the only problem that I have with that and that Dr. Kaku and others had with it was that occasionally somebody hits the jackpot.
		Oh, by the way, Gary North is coming up on Thursday night.
		I know a lot of you have been waiting for that.
		And there's quite a bit of Y2K news to give to you.
		Now, the Global Positioning System Receivers, or GPS receivers, may begin to have a real big problem.
		Very shortly now.
		As a matter of fact, I think the 21st of, no, make that the 22nd of August.
		The end-of-the-week rollover is going to cause some problems on this particular one.
		And though the satellites themselves are okay and the ground tracking stations are going to be okay, an awful lot of consumer GPS receivers are not going to be okay.
		And in cases where safety is an issue, any of you out there who are using GPS receivers, you know, for safety reasons, are going to want to pay particular attention to this.
		This is not a joke, and a lot of receivers are simply going to give you inaccurate information.
		And if you're using it for navigation, you're in trouble.
		So you had better be sure that you have a GPS receiver that will continue to be okay.
		From the Associated Press San Jose, California, only Iowa, Nebraska, and North Dakota have completely tested their computer systems and are ready, they say, to face the new year without fear of potentially dangerous year 2000 glitches.
		Now, think about that a little bit, folks.
		Think about that.
		Of all the states in the Union, only Iowa, Nebraska, and North Dakota are set.
		The rest of the states now have 139 days to guarantee reliability of their systems that run everything from law enforcement to utilities and traffic lights, you name it.
		And of course, right now, as we well know, nobody really can predict what might or might not occur when that magic gong goes off.
		And of course, by the way, I'm going to be here on New Year's Eve.
		I will be here on New Year's Eve, beginning the broadcast about two hours early just because I want to be here.
		I think that it's a Friday night.
		Somebody might correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's a Friday night, Saturday morning.
		So I'm going to make arrangements to be here.
		Now, from Variety Magazine, NBC apparently, looking to take advantage of the Millennium Madness, is working on its own Y2K, a disaster motion picture that imagines near-apocalyptic results brought about by the much-hyped computer bug.
		The Thriller stars Ken Olin from LA Doctors as a techie trying to save the U.S. from disasters caused by computer failures as 1999 becomes 2000.
		The picture is the only announced broadcast project to date capitalizing on concerns over the Y2K bug which machines interpret the date to 1100 as January 1st, 1900.
		So only one movie.
		Gary North here, Thursday night.
		The Associated Press, a National Hippist Ice Center, I didn't know we had a National Ice Center, but we do, I guess, issued a warning Tuesday that an iceberg just about the size, they say, of the state of Rhode Island threatens shipping now in the ocean between South America and the Antarctic.
		The iceberg named, they named the big ones I guess, H, make that Beasin boy 10A.
		They ought to give them real names.
		Harry.
		Harry the iceberg.
		Measures 24 by 48 miles.
		Wow.
		And is in the shipping lanes now in the vicinity of latitude 58 degrees west, 36 minutes south, longitude 57 degrees west.
		By the way, it's drifting southeast.
		Some 7 to 9 miles per day.
		That's quite fast.
		Very, very interesting.
		And here is a release from the Goddard Space Flight Center that somehow has not been reported in the regular media, and I don't know why.
		But NASA has a balloon, and I mean a big balloon, that they're putting into the upper atmosphere.
		This is a 60-story high balloon, which is going to go directly to the fringes of the Earth's upper atmosphere to collect, are you ready for this, particles of some of the rarest stuff in the universe, antimatter, and just possibly evidence the entire anti-galaxies or that entire anti-galaxies exist.
		Check it out.
		Now, why is CNN not running a story on this?
		NASA's going to put a 60-story high balloon, as high as a balloon can go, I guess, in our atmosphere, to go up there and get antimatter.
		And I've got to have, you know, I've got the website where the release is.
		In fact, as a matter of fact, Donald Savage, who I once had on the show from NASA, is the person who did the release in Washington, D.C. Now, what happens if they manage to get antimatter and bring it back?
		I don't know.
		I don't think they know either.
		But they're saying here that, in fact, it really could mean anti-galaxies exist.
		Now, can you wrap your mind around that one, an anti-galaxy?
		Absolutely incredible.
		All right, we'll get to more in a moment.
		We're going to have open lines.
		And by the way, at the top of the hour for a while, we're going to have a representative.
		Do you remember that phone call?
		A lot of you will not, because it was the final phone call that we had on a show, I don't know, a couple of weeks ago, or was it even less?
	Last week, maybe.
	And it was a lady.
	And the lady and I really, really, really went around and around about vegetarianism.
	And she was talking to me about meat and how terrible it was to eat meat.
	And I was telling her, well, vegetables scream when you bite into them.
unidentified		Don't you feel guilty when you bite into that carrot?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the scream, silent, albeit to our ears, shrieks through the house as your carrot wrists in agony, a hard twitching death as you sink your teeth into its orange body.
		Anyway, representative from PETA faxed me and said their phones went nuts the next day.
		People for the ethical treatment of animals, PETA.
		And so, Bruce Friedrich, who we have had on before, once before actually, he was in a debate at that time, and tonight he's going to be in a kind of a debate too with me, I guess.
		He's going to come on the air and it's going to be kind of fun.
		They are, of course, a very controversial activist organization.
		And I want to talk to them.
		I want to talk to Bruce myself.
		And so we're going to do a little bit of that at the top of the hour.
unidentified		Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider.
		You'll still get all the same great features for the same whole price.
		The package includes podcasting, which automatically downloads shows for you, and the iPhone app.
		You'll also get an amazing download library of three full years of shows.
		That's over a thousand shows for you to collect and enjoy.
		If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
		Visit CoasterCoastAM.com to sign up.
		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		When you look at what's going on around this planet, it's almost as if someone has got a playbook to try to control all these countries all of a sudden.
		I've always said that not everything is a conspiracy, but a lot of it is.
		You know, when you start looking into things, there's only certain set of conclusions you can reach.
		And unfortunately, this is one of them.
		You know, it's very, very hard not to see things like that when you start looking at things in a larger picture.
		Coast of Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for The iPhone and Android platforms.
		Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
		And if you're a Coast Insider, you'll have our great subscriber features right on your phone, including the ability to listen to live programs and screen previous shows.
		No special app is necessary to enjoy our new mobile site.
		Simply visit CoastToCoastAM.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
		I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
		I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
		Governments won't do that.
		And the reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
		They think that they'll lose control of us if we know.
		If you actually truly believe that we were being visited by extraterrestrials and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that government throws out all the time?
		Absolutely not.
		You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
		And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
		So the bottom line is government will never, ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
		ScreenLink, the audio subscription service of Coastal Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider.
		You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price, just 15 cents a day when you sign up for one year.
		The package includes Podcasting, which offers the convenience of having shows downloaded automatically to your computer or MP3Player, and the iPhone app with live and on-demand programs.
		You'll also get an amazing download library of three full years of shows.
		Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure.
		Plus, you'll get screened and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bell, Sunware In Time shows, and two weekly classics.
		And as a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Norrie and special guests.
		If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
		Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up today.
		Now we take you back to the night of August 17, 1999, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Dramatic music
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me talk to you about this now.
		It's an amazing photograph, actually.
		And at first glance, I know what the pixel people out there are going to do.
		You're going to pick it apart, and that's fine.
		You're welcome to pick it apart.
		Maybe it deserves to be picked apart, but we looked at this very carefully.
		There is a story and a website associated with it.
		We've got a link for you.
		But it is a very clear photograph taken, I believe, in the Andes.
		And it seems to show, I say again, it seems to show a light, which may be a portal, in the side of a mountain in Peru.
		Now, at first glance, and you're going to say, oh, come on, it was taken through a window.
		But the refracted light, and the matter of the refracted light, is not that of some sort of a lens flare, because there would be streaking.
		When you get a lens flare, you always get the streaking when it's through glass, and there is none of that.
		The photograph of the mountain itself is very sharp, very clear, and it really does look to me like it could be a portal.
		And it is so described on the website.
		Take a look for yourself.
		Let me know what you think.
		By the way, it is a new feature on our website.
		When you now get on, instead of going down to the what's new, you're going to see something that says for tonight's program.
		And there is going to be information on something like this that I might have for you, this incredible photograph.
		And information on Bruce Friedrich, the guest for tonight.
		So there's kind of a new section on the website, a new feature on the website called For Tonight's Program.
		And I would be interested, and you pixel people, feel free to call off and say, oh, come on, Art.
		It's a lens flare.
		And of course it might be.
		But when you really look carefully at it, it doesn't have the attributes of a lens flare.
		And it might be exactly what it says it is.
		So there you have it.
		Now listen to me.
		I'm telling you one of the more interesting things that you can do is to go to my website and download the SETI at home program.
		Team Art Bell is now 6,000 members strong.
		The next closest team has about 2,000 members.
		So we are now about easily three times the size of the next closest competitor.
		This is something you download for your computer and you install it in about five minutes.
		Boom, it goes in like that.
		And it uses your computer during times when you're not.
		It acts exactly like a screensaver.
		When you go up, you know, you move the mouse.
		It goes away and waits until you're done.
		And what it does is download information from Arecibo, the world's largest radio telescope.
		It processes the information and sends it back to the mainframe computer.
		And it's something you can do to help look for ET.
		And so I hope as many of you as possible will go up there and get that.
		And then, by the way, come back and join Team Art Bell.
		That's my team.
		All of you out there.
		And we are now the largest in the nation, which means to me that we just might be the ones to discover the signal.
unidentified		the signal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got a little, going into the break here at the bottom of the hour, I want you to listen very carefully to this song and tell me who it is and whether you've heard it before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's one of those songs that's driving me absolutely out of my mind.
unidentified		See if you've heard this.
		Falling in love was the last thing I had on my mind.
		Who is this, folks?
		Holding you with the warmth that I thought I could never find.
		It's been going through my mind all weekend long.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight's an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 17th, 1999.
		I took everyone else in a question that keeps going through my mind.
		Hey, baby, you're a tourist.
		It's a time to wake.
		Falling in love to be yours today.
		I I've seen visions of someone like you in my life.
		A love that's strong, reaching out, holding me through the dark sky.
		Just trying to lie.
		I'll stay by your side.
		I don't want to cry.
		I just can't find the enemy.
		for my life.
		I'll be lightning in your way.
		I I see you every day and by the end of the day.
		Lonely day, lonely night Where would I be without my woman?
		Lonely day, lonely night Where would I be without my woman?
		Lonely day, lonely night Where would I be without my woman?
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coasted Coast AM from August 17th, 1999.
		I'll tell you, everybody, I've really been on a music kick lately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've been collecting the music of my youth.
		And having a lot of fun doing it, too.
		And so that's some of what you're hearing.
		But you know this other song?
		It's been driving me absentee.
		And I've got...
		I mean, I played it for you, right, going into the last break.
		I played it for you, but I can't figure out who it is, when it was sung, or anything else.
		But I got my hands on it.
		It's driving me crazy.
unidentified		Please, help.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, these things, they get to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nothing you can do.
unidentified		And love was the last thing I had on my mind Something, maybe it's piano.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I love piano.
unidentified		I don't know.
		Holding you is the one that I thought I could never find.
		But this one's driving me crazy.
		Anyway, one of you out there, I'm sure, will be able to help out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the first time caller line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
		Hi, Art.
		Hi there.
		Extinguisher radio, please.
		Thank you.
		Even though I love that song.
		That's The Babies.
		The Babies.
		The Babies, yes.
unidentified		John Waite on lead vocals.
unidentified		He's got another hit, that song, Missing You.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God, that's a great song.
		Do you have any idea when he recorded that?
		Like 79 or 80.
unidentified		I picked it up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was in this search, as I said, for the music of my youth.
		And in that, I ran into that song, and it's been going through my mind like a freight train ever since.
		It has several days now.
unidentified		The album's called Broken Heart.
		I don't know if it's available anymore.
		I have it on vinyl.
		I've been playing guitar and writing songs since I was six, and I'm in my 40s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know then how it goes.
		You get a song like that, and it's just driving you.
		Totally, totally.
		And you say it's The Babies.
		The Babies.
		B-A-B-Y-S.
		And the name of it again?
		Broken Heart.
		Oh, wait, the album's Broken Heart.
		The song is Isn't It Time?
		Isn't It Time?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, I wouldn't have guessed either one.
unidentified		The guitar player was Wally Stalker.
unidentified		Bass player was John Waite, who also sang lead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're really good.
unidentified		Michael Corby on keyboards.
unidentified		And the guy, the desire went on to play with Rod Stewart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're funny by the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're really good.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You should be on a quiz program.
		I'd love that.
		You know, they ought to have one for rock and roll.
		See, I just gave away a million-dollar idea.
		Yeah, there you go.
		You just play a few bars of a song, and the person has to name the group.
		Tell us which guitar player has gone where and all the rest.
unidentified		Well, I did a short stint in Arizona on a rock station out there.
		I didn't know what I was doing.
		I mean, it was something I always wanted to do.
		Sure.
		And the opportunity came up, so I went for it.
		But I didn't realize that they didn't have liner notes and stuff for you.
		I mean, I had to pull all that stuff out of thin air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I pull everything I have out of thin air.
unidentified		It served me well.
unidentified		But my wife is your biggest fan in the whole world and she's sitting right here with this grin the size of Wyoming on her face.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Her name's Paulette.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Paulette, thank you for being my largest fan in all the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want to let her say something?
unidentified		Sure, here, here.
unidentified		Let me let me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hand of the phone.
unidentified		Thank you.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Paulette.
unidentified		How are you?
		I'm fine.
		We wanted to get through so bad so we could tell you who that was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he saved my life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've never heard of the babies.
unidentified		Oh, you haven't?
		No.
		Oh, they're great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that is some great tune.
unidentified		Yeah, it is.
unidentified		A lot of hits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was that their biggest hit?
unidentified		Pardon me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ask them if that was their biggest hit.
unidentified		Was that their biggest hit?
		Well, it's a big title.
		Ha ha!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stumped them, finally stumped them, huh?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Well, you sure are a good...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Paulette, it's great to have you there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And where is it you are?
unidentified		We're in Fortune, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fortune, California.
unidentified		Yes?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, bless your heart for being out there, honey.
unidentified		Oh, thanks.
		All right.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take Karen good night and thank your husband again.
unidentified		That was the babies?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I was in Rock and Roll for a lot of years, folks.
		20 years.
		20 years I did that.
		And so I remember almost everything, but somehow that one escaped me.
		I was no doubt out of the country, but this is no excuse because I'm still in Rock and Roll.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Arn.
unidentified		How are you today?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		This is Tony calling from London, Kentucky, listening to you on the big one, WTAM 1100, in Cleveland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's big, all right.
unidentified		It's a great station.
unidentified		They always love to play, and like I said, go Brown.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're going to have a good year.
unidentified		Yeah, Tim Couch is going to be excellent for them.
		I've watched him for years.
		As a matter of fact, I watched him in high school.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's going to have a hell of a year.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		I can't wait to go to the first game.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		Real life begins when the NFL comes back.
		I've been watching most of the preseason games just to get my blood going.
unidentified		I do.
		I'm so excited to have football back in Cleveland.
		You know, that's just wonderful.
		About the babies.
		I believe they do have a CD, the Babies Anthology, the Rays 10.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that particular song, you know how it is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've not heard it before, and it infected me like a virus, and I've been listening to it all weekend long.
unidentified		I have songs do that to me all the time, unfortunately.
		Also, I was telling you, you know, I was talking about changes in the earth and the weather and things like that.
		Oh, yes.
		When you talk about the ozone and the problems with it, I think the earth is actually, with these storms, these strong storms we've seen, I think the earth is actually trying to heal itself.
		Because lightning produces ozone.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Although, you know, I saw a very interesting story the other day indicating that there's actually less lightning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And do you know why?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because the Air Force is dropping a great deal of chaff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what chaff is?
unidentified		I've never heard of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, chaff is something that airplanes drop to foil missile radars and that sort of thing.
		You know, it's like little tiny pieces of aluminum or metal, millions of them that they drop.
		And they're actually suggesting that the dropping of this chaff is providing a conduit for electricity from the air to the ground that is preventing as much lightning as we used to have.
unidentified		Well, that doesn't shock me if the government's screwing something else up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's technically possible, that's for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the Air Force actually did a report on it, and I don't know whether it's really a factor, but they're saying it might be.
unidentified		Well, that wouldn't surprise me in the least little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, what we're doing is shorting out the atmosphere.
unidentified		U.S. government at its best.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At its best, sir.
unidentified		Thank you very, very much for your call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that would work.
		Kind of like the new bomb they have, right?
		You know about the new graphite bomb, the one they dropped on in Last Loufracas we had to short out the electrical system without permanently damaging it.
		Colonel Alexander called and talked quite a bit about that during his last visit.
		Same effect, except that with chaff, it literally extends from relatively high in the atmosphere to the ground, providing a line of conductivity.
		Interesting.
unidentified		Squeak
		Now we take you back to the night of August 17th, 1999.
		on Art Bell, somewhere in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rest of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Hi, Art.
		Hi.
		Hi.
		I was just calling to see, have you heard anything about Mount Rainier?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mount Rainier.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		In Washington?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, I'm well aware of Mount Rainier.
unidentified		And they said if it goes off, it's going to be, like, bigger than St. Helens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Mount Rainier would be a big one were it to go, but you're telling me the ice is melting.
unidentified		Yes, I'm telling you, they are saying on the news up there from the mine load up there, he's been telling me about it for months.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How high is Mount Rainier?
unidentified		Oh, I don't know.
unidentified		It's like one of the largest mountains on the Pacific Northwest, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there's no way at any time during the year the ice should melt?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it is often.
unidentified		No, it's supposed to stay covered with ice all the time, but it's starting to melt, so they expected it to go like at any time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's probably a bad sign, huh?
unidentified		Yeah, really, no kidding.
		So I was just wondering why we haven't heard anything about that, or if you've heard anything about it.
		Do you live near it?
		I was just wondering if maybe the rumbling in San Francisco, they say there's fault lines.
		They were showing pictures of it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they said it was San Andres.
unidentified		Okay, well, Mount Rainier is connected to all the fault lines going through Oregon and Northern California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you live near Mount Rainier?
unidentified		No, I live in Sacramento.
unidentified		But a friend of mine lives in Seattle, or actually in Tealop, which is like right at almost the base of Mount Rainier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe somebody from that area will call in and tell us.
unidentified		I wish they would, because I would like to hear something.
unidentified		I heard a blurb on a local news station about the ice melting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, if I were to be living at the base of that and I looked up and I saw ice melting that never melts.
unidentified		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'd be worried.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you very much.
unidentified		Listen, you do a great job.
unidentified		Keep on going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you and take care.
		And of course, the big earthquake, 7.8, and that is big in Turkey.
		The death toll there is going to go a lot higher.
		The initial death toll reported was 300, and I noticed that within 24 hours it went to 2,000, and you can expect it to go beyond that.
unidentified		Terrible, terrible earthquake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe it's beginning to heat up again in the earthquake category, a 5.0 in the Bay Area.
		5.0, not too bad.
		But you always wonder, you know, precursor.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing.
		Is this art?
		It is.
unidentified		Okay, how you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing.
unidentified		I don't know if you know it, but VH1 has something called Rock and Roll Jeopardy.
		They do.
		Yes, they do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I figured.
		There's hardly anything new under the sun.
		So in other words, they do exactly that.
		They play a little bit of a tune.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then people have to come up with the name, the artist, probably where the guitar player is now in the world.
unidentified		That kind of stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That what they do?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Figures.
unidentified		Another thing, I just finished reading Richard Belser's book.
		Yes.
		What a good book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excellent book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you.
unidentified		I love the way he puts things across.
		It's funny, too.
		Is it?
		Yeah, I think so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very good book.
unidentified		Well, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
unidentified		Okay, good to talk to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, wait a minute.
		Hold on there.
		Just a minute.
		Let me try something here.
		I'm going to play just a couple of bars of something, and I'm going to see if you can get it, all right?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you ready?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here it comes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's all you get.
unidentified		I hardly even heard it.
		Really?
		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let me give it to you.
		I'm going to give it to you again.
		You ready?
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Here we go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's more than I gave you the first time.
		Let me give you a hint.
		I play it as bumper music occasionally.
		You're drawing an absolute blank, aren't you?
unidentified		Yes, at this point in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you could possibly win a million dollars by naming that tune, what would you say?
unidentified		I'd be in a lot of trouble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You wouldn't even guess.
unidentified		I think I know it.
unidentified		Yes, but just tell the tip.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's right there on the tip.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You need just a little more?
unidentified		Just a little more.
unidentified		Just a little more then It's Nana and Nope, nope, I don't know it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there goes a million.
		All right.
		Thank you for the call and have a very good morning.
unidentified		Of course, it's Crystal Gale.
unidentified		It's been a too long time with no peace of mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, you've heard me play this.
unidentified		And I'm ready for the time to get better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, MTV does that, huh?
		It figures.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Hi, Art.
		Hello.
		This is Bert from Berkeley, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bert from Berkeley.
unidentified		I was the one who spoke with you the night we had the form with our radio station out here.
unidentified		Oh, yes, indeed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I trust that PPFA is back on the air as annoyingly normal, right?
unidentified		Well, yeah, actually absolutely normal in the sense that we got major concessions from the board so that we were not only reinstalled in our building and are back on the air, but the gag rule was lifted.
unidentified		So we are now able to continue to dispense the truth about what's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what I meant by annoyingly normal.
		I know they're a pretty wild radio station, and they're like me.
		You know, you never know what's going to happen, and it might be something unpredictable and weird.
unidentified		Well, we've also been able to be truthful about what's going on between the radio station and the board itself, and that was what I was actually referring to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, why not?
		I mean, what the hell?
		It probably is going to help their ratings.
		I'm sure the whole controversy is going to help their ratings.
unidentified		Well, it has galvanized the support in the community here for the radio station.
		Uh-huh.
		There you are.
		Yeah.
		I also wanted to mention to you about the babies.
		That song would have been from, he said 1979, 1980, definitely 1978 at the latest, maybe 1977.
		I remember that because I was going through something at that time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know how you associate songs with certain as a matter of fact, it's so serious for me that when I hear a certain song, I actually see a picture in my mind.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Yeah, I can refeel emotions and feelings that I had.
		I mean, even when you were playing that song, that really took me back because that song haunted me when it was out.
		Really?
		Oh, absolutely.
		That was really one of the more powerful songs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm telling you, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've been playing it all weekend long, again and again and again.
unidentified		Yeah, I knew right away as soon as you said it.
unidentified		In fact, when you played that other song, your bumper song, when you played it the first time and you only played it for about one second, I recognized it as one of the songs that you play.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		I didn't remember the name of it, but I knew right away which song it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You didn't get it, huh?
unidentified		Because I heard you play it before.
unidentified		I immediately recognized it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'm going to give you one then.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is going to be, if you don't get this, I mean, if you don't get this, you've got nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You ready?
unidentified		I'll probably get it.
unidentified		Go ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here we go.
unidentified		What's all you get?
unidentified		Pretty Woman, wherever it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad I didn't have the million up for you.
unidentified		Listen, can I run something else by you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sure.
unidentified		This is a little hard to put into words, but has anybody on your show, speaking from a metaphysical standpoint, talked about the fact that some things of a phenomenal nature, nature have only a relative reality some things of a phenomenal nature only have a relative reality what do you mean by that okay what what I'm saying is that well for example there was a book out called The Holographic Universe.
		I would have loved for you to have interviewed the author, but unfortunately he has died.
		Well that doesn't rule out an interview on what he talks about in that book, and I've heard this from other sources too, is the fact that a lot of so-called reality is a holographic manifestation of the mass consciousness.
		For example, when there are visions of the Virgin Mary on walls of buildings or something, that's a phenomenon that results from a number of people maybe in the area that believe in that sort of thing, and together they create this phenomenon.
		And then after a while, when the interest starts to wane, the image starts to fade.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what would be a perfect example of that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The chupacabra.
unidentified		Yeah, sure.
unidentified		And you know, and a more perfect example would be UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that explains why we have these sudden, tremendous showings of UFOs, and then it all lets up.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		And it also explains why one never lands in the White House lawn, because they really only have a relative reality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Although, with my program and the millions of listeners that I have, it could be that if we did another grand experiment, we could cause one to land on the South Lawn.
unidentified		But then you would really want to second-guess yourself because you're not really sure that you want to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, not when there's a possibility that Hillary would come out and greet whoever it is who landed on behalf of all mankind.
unidentified		But you'd have a certain responsibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		out there talking about a village or something and they'd zap the entire planet.
unidentified		It would take a pretty powerful focusing to...
unidentified		Oh, yeah, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm very tempting.
		All right, sir.
		Thank you very, very much for the call.
		And here's another one that I really like.
		I should have used that as one of my shoes.
		Maybe someday we'll do that.
		That'd be a lot of fun, wouldn't it?
		All right, look here, I think.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 17th, 1999.
		If you love her, then you must send her somewhere where she's never been before.
		Morning raises and morning gazes get you where you want to go.
		Something can you won't win.
		You want to love me.
		You want to know.
		We'll hold it up by now.
		Thought that change are one winner.
		From extinction.
		We'll rock the bad baby in the tree top.
		When the wind blows, the bread will rock.
		We'll rock the bad baby in the tree top.
		When the wind blows.
		Well, Jack be nimble, Jack be quick.
		Jack jumps over the candlestick.
		He jumps so high up above, he landed in the cradle of love.
		Well, rock the bad baby in the tree top.
		When the wind blows, the bread will rock.
		Oh, rock the bad baby in the tree top.
		When the wind blows.
		Oh, no.
		Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
		High diddle diddle, the cat had a fiddle, the cow jumped over the moon And on her way down she met a turtle dove that let's go rocking in the cradle of love Well rock goodbye baby in the treetop When the wind blows Free Beer Radio Networks presents Art Bell somewhere in time tonight's
		The program originally aired August 17, 1999.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's another one that's driving me nuts.
		Absolutely crazy.
		There's something about this tune.
		Not this part, but the clincher line, whatever people in music call it.
		This part.
unidentified		We'll rock by babies in the treetops.
		When the wind blows, when we're on.
		We'll rock by babies in the treetops.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		see.
		When the wind blows, it'll start going through your head again and again and again and again, like a virus.
		Well, it was about a week ago, I guess or so, and I had this call from this lady, and it was the end of the program, so a lot of you out there will not have heard it.
		She was a veggie Tarian.
		And she was very enthusiastic.
		Although, I guess the PETA people thought that she didn't deliver the message quite the way they would have had her deliver it.
		They got a whole bunch of calls, and so I'm going to just profane have Bruce Friedrich on here in a minute.
		I'm behind in commercials because I got so interested in my music, I'm behind.
		And so I'm going to have to catch up.
		Bruce Friedrich is the spokesperson for PETA, which is the organization known as People Eating Tasty Animals.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People for the ethical treatment of animals.
unidentified		Actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so we're going to talk about steaks and burgers and hot dogs and spam.
		Oh, we're going to talk about all kinds of vegetables.
		We're going to talk about all of this for a little while, anyway.
		And Bruce was with us one time before, and he was on the air for four hours debating, you will recall, a kind of a mountain man that we had on at the time.
		So I'll tell you more about Bruce and Peter, and we'll get them on the air here in a moment.
unidentified		Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider.
		You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price.
		The package includes podcasting, which automatically downloads shows for you, and the iPhone app.
		You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows.
		That's over a thousand shows for you to collect and enjoy.
		If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
		Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up.
		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
		I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
		I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by a mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
		Governments won't do that.
		The reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
		They think that they'll lose control of us if we know.
		If you actually truly believed that we were being visited by extraterrestrials and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that government throws out all the time?
		Absolutely not.
		You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
		And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
		So the bottom line is government will never, ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
		Coast of Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
		Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
		And if you're a Coast Insider, you'll have our great subscriber features right on your phone, including the ability to listen to live programs and stream previous shows.
		No special app is necessary to enjoy our new mobile site.
		Simply visit CoastToCoastAM.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
		When you look at what's going on around this planet, it's almost as if someone has got a playbook to try to control all these countries all of a sudden.
		I've always said that not everything is a conspiracy, but a lot of it is.
		You know, when you start looking into things, there's only certain set of conclusions you can reach.
		And unfortunately, this is one of them.
		You know, it's very, very hard not to see things like that when you start looking at things in a larger picture.
		ScreenLink, the audio subscription service of Coastal Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider.
		You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price, just 15 cents a day when you sign up for one year.
		The package includes Podcasting, which offers the convenience of having shows downloaded automatically to your computer or MP3Player, and the iPhone app with live and on-demand programs.
		You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows.
		Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure.
		Plus, you'll get streamed and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bell, Summer In Time shows, and two weekly classics.
		And as a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Norrie and special guests.
		If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
		Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up today.
		Now we take you back to the night of August 17, 1999, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Now, Bruce Friedrich.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As Vegetarian Campaign Coordinator and general spokesperson for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, PETA, the largest animal rights organization in the whole world, Bruce Friedrich can be found in schools, universities, civic clubs speaking about animal liberation and vegetarianism.
		Bruce has debated animal experimenters, furriers, meat trade officials on various local and national radio programs.
		His work on behalf of vegetarianism and animal rights has made headlines across the country, including the Wall Street Journal, L.A. Times, New York Times, Washington Post, USA Today, so forth and so on.
		Now, before coming to PETA in 1996, Bruce spent more than six years working in a shelter for homeless families and soup kitchens in inner-city Washington, D.C. Bruce continues to coordinate PETA's monthly human outreach efforts in the local community.
		Bruce graduated Phi Beta Kappa from Grinnell College in Iowa with majors in English and economics, minors in religious studies.
		He received numerous awards, including the Gilbert Award for original research in the field of economics.
		Bruce believes, as author and civil rights activist Alice Walker said, quote, the animals of the world were not made for humans any more than black people were made for white or women created for men.
		End quote.
unidentified		What the hell was that?
unidentified		Bruce29 lives in Norfolk, Virginia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The animals of the world were not made for humans any more than black people were made for white or women created for men.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Bruce, how you doing?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing great, Art.
		Thanks so much for inviting me to be on.
		It's absolutely my pleasure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This quote, Alice Walker's quote, the animals of the world were not made for humans Any more than black people were made for white or women created for men?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, basically she's summarizing the concept of speciesism.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		And what speciesism says is that if the factor you're determining is pain, in other words, somebody's right to be free from pain or free from exploitation at the hands of others, the only relevant factor is that being's capacity to feel pain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And women were created for men.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remember the whole thing about the rib and Adam and how lonely he was and God said, here you go, and right?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's certainly one interpretation, I suppose, and maybe the Southern Baptists would agree with you, but I think that you'd find that most women and certainly all feminists would give you quite a rhetorical battle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		to say they were not created for men is, I mean, the opposite sounds just as ridiculous.
		Men were created for women.
		I mean the plumbing is there.
		There's no question about it.
		We're created for each other.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well we weren't created in order to use one another, certainly.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		We were created perhaps to be stewards of one another, which is a more sort of progressive biblical interpretation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stewards.
unidentified		I like that.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and the animal rights argument then would extend that also to animals, and would say that since animals have the same capacity for suffering regardless of species, in other words, at the very least, mammals, birds, and fishes, we know that biologically and physiologically we all experience pain in the same way.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		We consequently all have a right not to experience that at the hands of others.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, we'll get to that.
		Stewardship.
		Remember that word.
		In other words, why doesn't...
		You're going to find me to be a very centrist.
		Well, you won't.
		PETA is pretty much a pretty radical organization, right?
		Would you admit that?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, radical, the Latin of that...
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		being root, we believe to that one should go to the root of the exploitation and the root of the problem, and that's your address.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Truly rootical, right?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we certainly think that the problem should be stopped at its source, and we might want to get into the question of animal rights as opposed to animal welfare.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They might want to know your website name.
		It's very rootable.
		It's meatstinks.com.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		www.meatstinks.com.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		We also have a toll-free vegetarian hotline, and we send out a free vegetarian starter package.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is this for vegetarians who are ready to fall off the wagon and have a burger?
unidentified		I mean, do they call in the middle of the night and say, I need the pack.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		FedEx same day.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		FedEx same day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So do you save them or what?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		No, it's for anybody.
		There's information from the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, mostly nutritional information.
		And then there's the PETA guide to animals in the meat industry, and it talks about exploitation of animals that are raised for food.
		There are actually quite a few recipes from one of our cookbooks called Recipes for a Compassionate Cook.
		So we sort of span the gauntlet, as it were.
unidentified		All right, what about Black People Were Made for White?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I don't understand that either.
		Black People Made for White.
		What does that mean?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, Alice Walker wrote this introduction to a book called The Dreaded Comparison by a woman named Marjorie Spiegel.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		And what Ms. Spiegel is doing in her book is she is comparing the status of African Americans in the early 19th century, well really the 16th through 19th centuries in the United States, to the status of animals that we raise for food and for experimentation, for entertainment, etc.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So she was not suggesting that the mixing of the races was wrong.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, no.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		What she's suggesting is that blacks shouldn't be slaves and neither should animals be slaves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess if a white guy marries a w a black girl, why then if the second part is true, there'd still be a problem, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, that she was created for him.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, again, I think if you go back to the stewardship concept and their helpmates for one another, obviously that would be the right relationship.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		And certainly, you know, any kind of inclusivity, when you're talking about inclusivity according to species or you're talking about inclusivity according to race or gender, obviously the ideal relationship is all of us are in this thing called life together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree with that.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		And all of us should be working toward, we feel, a more compassionate and a more just society where no one is eating another being or experimenting on or holding in captivity to use for human amusement as things like circuses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like a circus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about domestic pets?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, that goes, then you sort of have to ask yourself, is this in the best interest of the animal?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I think that, you know, going back to our analogy about marriage, is it in the best interest of both of the partners?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, here I would argue that, yes, it is.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Exactly, exactly.
		And I think with domestic animals, not only is it in the best interest of the parties involved, but there's also the factor that I think people who have companion animals naturally understand that animals, and they hopefully can extend this to cows and pigs and chickens and primates and other animals, animals have a capacity for pain, a capacity for joy, for love.
		Animals are interesting creatures in their own right.
		They are.
		And what we say then is if you wouldn't cause your dog or your cat to suffer this unbearable pain, and, you know, make no mistake about it, the animals on these farms, they lead short, miserable, violent, bloody lives, and they die incredibly bloody violent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, you know, I know where you're going with all this, and I've heard all this, and I know you can draw some horror stories that will really make us wretch, but the fact of the matter is that if that aspect were eliminated, if the small pens, what you call terrible conditions, and all the rest of it were eliminated, and these pigs lived really a pig's life, I mean just the best pig life you could imagine, you still would be against the painless killing of those animals for food, right?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Certainly that's true, although I must say that in the short term, the vast majority of our budget goes toward simply improving the conditions that these animals lead.
		Well, for example, there are no federal laws to protect these animals on factory farms, so almost 100% of pigs are genetically bred, so that most of them are lame.
		They're castrated without painkillers.
		They have their teeth ripped out of their heads without painkillers.
		They're kept on slatted metal floors, never able to lead a pig's life.
		And at the slaughterhouse, a huge proportion of them are dismembered and skinned alive.
		So even for people who give one whit about animal welfare, if you care at all, imagine your cat or your dog in this kind of situation and ask yourself how you can justify paying people to torment and torture animals for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, okay.
		Well, I don't want to pay people to torment anything.
		And I want it to live a decent life until it becomes bacon or a sausage.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, visit these slaughterhouses.
		Visit these farms.
		These places are like Fort Knox, I can tell you.
		You're not going to get in.
		Now, try to go to visit the places where vegetarian foods are grown.
		You can go to any of them.
		You can see the processing.
		You can see the food.
		Gandhi used to say that if a poet can't write about it, I don't want any part in it.
		In other words, if a poet can't write about it in a romantic or in a beautiful way, I don't want any part of it.
		And imagine a poem about a slaughterhouse.
		Now, imagine a poem about growing grains or beans or fruits or vegetables.
		These are life-giving foods.
		These are foods that don't have to suffer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would somebody be so kind, please, as to write a poem about a slaughterhouse that I can read to Bruce and just fax it to me at my normal 775-727-8499.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		It's going to be a gruesome poem, I'm afraid, are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can't be sure of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you hear the call that prompted you to send me this fax?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I did, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you heard the lady.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I did, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you think of that?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I thought that perhaps she could have framed her argument perhaps a bit more cogently.
		She could have talked about the health benefits of a vegetarian diet.
		Absolutely the most healthful diet in existence.
		She could have talked about the fact that all of them.
		I'm sorry?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't believe that.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		You don't?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, absolutely not.
		Most vegetarian people that I've come to know, that I've known in my personal life, and they all preach vegetarianism.
		They're very active about it, but they all look emaciated and kind of unhealthy to me.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's certainly possible to be an unhealthful vegetarian, but even mainstream organizations like the American Dietetic Association, the Heart Association, the Cancer Society, even the USDA recommends vegetarian diets as a very good way to stave off some of the biggest killers in this country.
		And in fact, the biggest killer in this country is heart disease.
		It kills as many people as everything else combined.
		50% of people die of heart disease.
		There are two physicians in human history who have unclogged people's arteries and made them heart attack proof.
		Dr. Dean Ornish on the West Coast, and he wrote a blockbuster best-selling book.
		He also found that people lost an average of more than 20 pounds.
		And he put people on a low-fat vegetarian diet.
		Got their cholesterol levels down below 150, unclogged their arteries, which had been previously thought to be impossible, and he did it on a veggie diet.
		The second one is published in the August 1st.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The veggie diet did not kill them.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		The veggie diet not only didn't kill them, but these were people who had had heart attacks previously, were at very high risk for dropping over dead any moment, and these were people who were made absolutely immune to heart disease by getting their cholesterol levels down below 150.
		The second one, the American Journal of Cardiology, very established, well-respected journal, a researcher from the Cleveland Clinic, the most well-respected of all of the heart clinics in the country, perhaps in the world, Dr. Ethelstein, he's just published research.
		He took 18 people who had had a total of an average of three heart attacks each in the previous eight years.
unidentified		No doubt.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		In the 12 years on his vegetarian diet, he got them all heart attack-proof.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If I had to eat vegetables for 12 years, I'd rather be dead, Bruce.
unidentified		Hold on.
unidentified		We'll be back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bells Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 17, 1999.
		Coast to Coast AM from August
		17, 1999.
		Coast to Coast AM from August 17, 1999.
		Coast to Coast AM from August 17, 1999.
		We'll never see what we wanna see, or ever cling to the galvanine.
		We'll take a long way, we'll take a long way to go.
		When you're up one day, you're so unbelievable.
		Unfortunately, I made all these things with the way you're
		listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 17th, 1999.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		MeatStinks.com is a link you'll find on my website right now, along with Bruce's name.
		We've got a new section of the website, actually, and there's a couple of things, actually several you should pay attention to on the website.
		One is the new area we have for tonight's show, which in this particular case has a very, very interesting photograph that you've really got to see.
		It's a photograph taken, I believe, in the Andes of the side of a mountain and what would appear to be a dimensional, it would also say a dimensional portal.
		There is an entire website associated with it.
		You can read about it.
		You can look at it, you can say, what I'm sure a lot of you pixel people are going to say, "All obvious lens flare." But it really is not an obvious lens flare.
		Number two, the photograph of the model is extremely clear.
		So it just might be what it represents.
		It ought to be.
		And that is an apparent dimensional portal.
		You want to see it player again.
		all the information on PETA and Bruce Friedrich, who is my guest.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 17, 1999.
		Coast to Coast AM from August 17, 1999.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, once again, here is the representative of PETA, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, Bruce Friedrich.
		And Bruce, I bet you guys don't like it when you hear people eating tasty animals, huh?
		Well, I don't know.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Many people have said that parody is the most sincere form of flattery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then you're flattered a lot.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I mean, again, people to eating tasty animals is a fairly popular one.
		There are, I think, a lot more creative and sort of amusing variants.
		There are occasionally articles in papers around the country where people take our acronym and do all kinds of wacky things with it.
		And we have a very good sense of humor.
		When you're basically besieged by images of animal abuse day in and day out, I think you really need to keep your sense of humor.
		Not too many people, I think, would accuse PETA of not having a sense of humor.
		We do come up with an awful lot of, I think, funny and amusing ways to make our points.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the lady who called me was kind of an interesting case in point because she made an argument that, you know, we were talking about vegetables versus meat from animals and all the rest of it.
		Right.
		And I did mention to her that now very famous scientific experiment in which lettuce was seen to react to its brethren cut in half.
		It was a rather detailed experiment.
		I know you know the story.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so if vegetables can react in a seemingly emotional way to another vegetable being cut, then you've got to ask questions about the advocacy of vegetables.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what about when they're all crowded together in a garden, one seed right next to the other, no room to breathe, can't get to the sun?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's cruel.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are a variety of, I think, fairly cogent responses.
		The first one is that you can't find a reputable physiologist or a reputable biologist who will argue that plants feel pain.
		They don't have any of the things required for pain.
		Pain receptors, central nervous systems, brains, which all of the animals share.
		Plants don't have those things.
		They don't have any need to feel pain.
		And again, the reason, according to biologists and physiologists, we're able to move is so we can escape pain.
		They don't have that need.
		But you know, the reason I went vegetarian more than 12 years ago was for environmental reasons.
		The fact is you have to feed 20 calories to an animal to get one calorie back out of the animal.
		So leaving aside all of the water pollution and water use and topsoil depletion, the reality is we feed more than 80% of the grains we grow in this country.
		We feed them to animals and then we eat the animals.
		So if our concern is actually for the suffering of these plants, assuming we have to eat something, we should still eat the plants directly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would counter with taste.
		Now, for example, the vegetable from absolute hell, as far as I'm concerned, is the lima bean.
		When I was a child, I used to eat lima beans one at a time like aspirins, downing them with a glass of milk so I could get my dessert because it's the only way my mom would give me dessert to finish everything on the table.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And lima beans were always the last.
		I hate lima beans.
		I will not even walk near a lima bean.
		That's how much I dislike lima beans.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, fortunately, vegetarians don't have to live on lima beans or broccoli, are they?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no.
		I mean, we'll broaden this, but I mean, the texture alone of a lima bean is enough to make it throw up.
		And so...
		That's just a personal opinion.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm with you on the lima beans, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't like lima beans?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Not a big fan of lima beans.
		But you know, vegetarian foods, there is such a huge variety.
		And it really is the diet that's going to unclog your arteries.
		It's the best diet for your health.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said something at the bottom of the hour, Bruce, that you should respond to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I was really being honest, even though it sounded funny.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, what was that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's say that I had a choice right now.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the choice was, Art, you can have five more years of life if you stop eating meat and eat nothing but vegetables from now until the day you do die, which will be five years later than you otherwise would have.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, I'd rather be dead.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, a couple of points to make.
		And the first one is strictly health related.
		Dr. Dean Ornish, again, the foremost nutritionist in the world, the man who first unclogged people's arteries, it's now been done by another fellow also using a vegetarian diet.
		The point he makes is not only do you die earlier from heart disease, but your life is miserable as you die.
		The root of vegetarianism is a good idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you telling me that vegetarians die good deaths?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, but what I'm telling you is that on the road to death, vegetarians are more vital.
		Because in the short term, meat eaters tend to be heavier and more lethargic, and in the long term, they clog up their arteries and they suffer from cancer at a 40% greater rate.
		And it's just not a way to go.
		Well, yes, it is a way to go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But see, Bruce, it is a way to go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the case I'm making.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		It's very clear your conscience and your arteries are.
		Again, I think that people should be very open-eyed about this, this sort of unexamined life is not worth living kind of Socrates thing.
		I think people need to remember that if each time you sit down to eat, you have a decision to make, and your decision is between misery and mercy.
		Your decision is between...
		Your decision is between paying people to torture animals violently or not paying people to do that.
		And it seems to me there's an awful lot of violence in the world.
		We can't do much about, for example, the Eritreans and the Sudanese or the Kosovo Albanians and the Serbians.
		Without a lot of effort, there's not much we can do to address all of that violence.
		This is one area where we can make a compassionate choice day in and day out every time we sit down to eat.
		And I would think that as moral people it would be incumbent upon us to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But see, I don't believe that.
		I believe that as moral people it is incumbent upon us to be good stewards of the animals that we do eat.
		Remember we were talking about stewardship?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well I agree with you that raising them in torturous conditions and or killing them in torturous conditions is horrible and I want to end that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I still want my steaks and burgers and chicken and I'm really a meat eater, a serious meat eater, Bruce.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well but Art, at least in the short term, I think it would make sense for you to engage in a boycott until you can visit the slaughterhouses and see the animals humanely killed.
		Until you can visit the farms and find that animals, and again, cows, they have the horns ripped out of their heads without painkillers.
		They're castrated without painkillers.
		Any of them have third-degree burns inflicted.
		This is a violent reality.
		They're transported to the slaughterhouse through all manner of weather extremes.
		And in the big cow states like Texas and Oklahoma, it's very hot.
		Many of these animals die during the transportation in the hotter months or they freeze to death in places like Canada during the colder months.
		This is what we're paying people to do to animals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, so that's fine.
		Let's be activist and change that.
		That I'm for.
		Sure, let's be activists and change activities.
		Not that you get an argument out of me.
		I don't want to see anything suffer, animal or human.
		I love animals.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Sure, let's be activists and change that.
		But in the short term, it's sort of like, you know, let's change sweatshop conditions for our clothing.
		But in the short term, you have to engage in a boycott in order to do that.
		And so I would encourage you, at least in the short term, until conditions improve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No way, Bruce.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Adopt a vegetarian diet.
		And it is the best thing you can do for your health.
		It's the best thing for the environment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
unidentified		I think it would kill me.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I think you would be surprised.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I went vegetarian more than 12 years ago, and I'm still kicking it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If I wasn't surprised and died, then I wouldn't be here to complain to you, would I?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		You wouldn't be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		See, I really, really enjoy meat.
		And if it takes five years off my life, well then...
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Meat is laden with saturated fat and cholesterol.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		No fiber or carbohydrates.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How can you die?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How can you prove to me that vegetarians don't die terrible twitching deaths just like meat eaters?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, they don't clog up their arteries.
		They suffer from 40% less cancer.
		They suffer from about 80% less stroke.
unidentified		But they still kick the bucket?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		They still kick the bucket.
		But according to the foremost nutritionists in the world, they certainly kick the bucket in a less violent and unpleasant reality.
		And again, you know, Dr. Benjamin Spock, foremost pediatrician in human history.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bruce, what is a typical way for a veggie to kick?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, vegetarians, I think, kick the bucket in similar ways that everybody else kicks the bucket.
		They just do it a little bit later and they do it with a little bit less violence.
		And their arteries don't corrode, or at least complete vegetarians.
		Because a vegan's average cholesterol level is about 123.
		And no one in human history has been documented of dying of or even having a heart attack if their cholesterol level goes below 150.
		So not everybody who eats meat is going to have a heart attack.
		20% of them will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do vegetarians have fewer strokes?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		They have less strokes that are related to blood flow.
		And again, I think it's about 60% of stroke is related to clogged arteries.
		In other words, clogged blood flow to the brain.
		And again, vegetarians, or at least complete vegetarians, have very low cholesterol levels.
		Their arteries don't clog.
		And there are these two researchers, Dr. Ethelstein at the Cleveland Clinic and Dr. Ornish out on the West Coast, who are actually unclogging people's arteries with a low-fat vegetarian diet.
		And again, on Ornish's program, people lost an average of more than 20 pounds in the first year.
		And they keep the weight off.
		And both Ethelstein and Ornish argue that the reason they keep the weight off and the reason that they stick to the diet is because their lifestyle improves so much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, I believe the weight loss.
		I've just finished telling you, I think somewhere during the hour, that most of the vegetarian, particularly women that I've known, look emaciated.
		Their hair is falling out more than it ought to.
		It's a lousy, sort of dull color.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I think that's definitely the anomaly.
		A million people are turning vegetarian every year, and it's a diet adhered to by Shania Twain, Michael Eisner, CEO of Disney, Pamela Anderson-Lee, Michael Milken, the junk bond king, Chelsea Clinton, Steve Jobs, one of the founders of Apple, Kim Basinger, Paul McCartney, Alanis Morissette.
		The list goes on and on and on, and these are not emaciated people.
		These are extremely healthy, vital people.
		And hey, for people who don't have web access, do let me toss out our toll-free vegetarian hotline, and we'll send people the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine PAC.
		Also, our Guide to Animals in the Meat Industry.
		It's toll-free.
		It's 1-888-VEGFOOD, 8-8-8-V-E-G-F-O-O-D.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I've seen these hamburgers, for example, that they advertise.
		I forget, is it Monsanto?
		Some big company, not Monsanto, I don't know who it is.
		They always advertise on Meat the Press hamburgers made out of some alternate substance.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Probably Archer Daniels middle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Supermarket to the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, I know what they say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But a hamburger which is not a beef hamburger is not a hamburger.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		You know, there's a new burger out.
		It's called the Boca Burger, and it's gotten a lot of press fairly recently.
		What is it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Boca Burger.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		The Boca Burger is something made by Boca Burger Company, surprise.
		And it's gotten a lot of press recently because Bob Arnott, who wrote the Breast Cancer Prevention Diet, which is the blockbuster bestseller, he's, I think, NBC's scientific or medical advisor, he's recommending Boca Burgers.
		And he's been on the Today Show serving them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think Traytell is a Boca Burger.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		It's basically a soy-based, completely vegetarian alternative.
		And, you know, he went on the Rosie O'Donnell show, and he did a taste test with her.
		And he gave her a bokeh burger, and he gave her a meat burger.
		And she thought the bokeh burger was the real thing.
		And we've done this on radio programs.
		We've done this in front of McDonald's restaurants.
		The only thing you're missing with the bokeh burger, the only thing you're missing is the saturated fat and the cholesterol.
unidentified		And if you have time for questions, that goes out the window, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where's the beef, Bruce?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're missing the beef.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		But what you're getting is you're getting fiber, you're getting a low-fat, zero-cholesterol, high-fiber, high-complex carbohydrate alternative that tastes just as good.
		Why on earth would you want to pay people to harm animals, harm the environment, and also get this heavy dose of saturated fat and cholesterol?
		And again, meat has no fiber and no carbohydrates at all.
unidentified		Because it tastes good.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		It's bad for you.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		It's bad for the environment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of things that are bad for you in life, and yet it's part of the enjoyment of life.
		There are lots of things.
		I mean, life in general is killing us, Bruce.
		All of us.
unidentified		Even you.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		From the moment we born, we're born, we begin to die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then nobody's getting out alive.
		And so you make choices in life.
		And one of them, a real bad one, might be smoking.
unidentified		I do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or drinking coffee.
		I do that too.
		And I eat meat.
		So it has to do with the quality of life, not just the length of life.
		What good would it do to live to be 102 years old if for 40 years of that time you are going to be in abject misery because you're eating nothing but green slush?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's distill it to where many men, at least, live their lives.
		When Dean Ornish, again, the West Coast physician, and again, his program is covered by all of the major medical insurance companies.
		It's covered by Medicare.
		It's covered by Medicaid.
		It's the only nutritional program covered by the insurance companies.
		And the reason for that is he's unclogging people's arteries.
		That's what kills more than half of people in this country.
		When he was asked on politically incorrect, basically the same points that you're making by one of the guests there, he said, well, he said, I'll tell you, another side effect that we found on our diet is that men who were impotent restored their sexual function.
		And it certainly is the case that people want to be able to have erectile function late into life.
		But a quarter of men are impotent by the time they're 60 years old.
		Half of men report having some problems by the time they're 40.
		And more than 70% of this is related to clogged arteries.
		What Ornish has found is that he is unclogging people's arteries and he's also restoring sexual function, which for a lot of people is very, very integrally tied to their quality of life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah.
		Sex.
		It's true.
		I mean, a lot of times, sex is just great after a quarterhouse.
		I mean, just a, you know, char-broiled quarterhouse steak.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		You'll see very few vegetarians sitting on the couch, you know, having to unbuckle their pants and sort of sit there lethargically staring at the television because their meal has just weighed them down.
		And, you know, all of the things that come with obesity.
		And obesity is like just about everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes, Bruce, it feels good to have a meal where afterwards you're weighted down.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guarantee you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you sit there in your weighted down, contented condition, and you have a smoke after dinner, and you just feel great.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		You know, I guarantee, Art, that it doesn't feel good for the animal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dying, we're all going to die, right?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're all going to die, but we don't have to die so miserably.
		And, you know, chickens, they don't even live two months anymore.
		They've been genetically bred so that more than 90% of them, more than 9 out of 10 chickens, by the time they're two months old and are hanging upside down, 90% of them have crippling leg deformities because we've genetically bred them so that they're these weird superanimals.
		Their upper bodies grow, but their legs don't keep up.
		And the reason we have to slaughter them when they're two months old is that they would otherwise all die of heart attacks because they grow so quickly that their hearts and their lungs can't keep up with their bulk.
		This is a violent reality.
		We sear their beaks off with a hot blade so that many of them starve to death because eating becomes so painful.
		From life to death, I mean from birth to death for all of these animals, is absolutely unmitigated suffering.
		And, you know, I agree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I absolutely agree with you.
		I mean, nobody wants any animal tortured.
		I certainly don't.
		But I am still very much in favor of raising animals in a proper, reasonable, stewardship type of way, and then slaughtering them so we can have burgers and steaks and sausage.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, visit one of these factory farms, visit one of these slaughterhouses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But beyond animals, reach out mentally, Bruce.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want you to reach out mentally and imagine all of that changed.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It wouldn't change what you're saying, would it?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, it would change tremendously what I'm saying.
		I think we're talking about the inherent right to life food.
		Yeah, no, what I'm trying to do is the way these animals are spreading.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's say it's a done deal.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and all the animals are living well and then painlessly slaughtered for food.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would your argument then be?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		My argument would run something along the lines of the concept of democracy, which is what this country is founded on, the concept of a social contract.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		And you have a right to swing your fist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pigs don't vote.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		But that right is limited.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, neither do babies and neither do people with mental problems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a very good point.
		And I'm going to call you on it when we get back.
		Plenty of time.
		Bruce Friedrich from PETA is here.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 17, 1999.
		The End
		The End Be inside of the sand, smell of the touch, the something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of the touch or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak leaves deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up, to tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing, to lie in the meadows and hear the grass sing, all these things in our memory soul.
		And the universal thing is faith of this strength, Let's go.
		Let's go.
		It's all free.
		I was here.
		But for my fear, I do it my life.
		my own my own You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time tonight, featuring a replay of Coasted Coast AM from August 17, 1999.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you ask, where may you get hold of me?
		Well, how about mindspring.com?
		at MindSpring.com.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Coasted Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
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		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
		I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
		I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by a mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
		Governments won't do that.
		And the reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
		They think that they'll lose control of us if we know.
		If you actually truly believe that we were being visited by extraterrestrials and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that government throws out all the time?
		Absolutely not.
		You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
		And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
		So the bottom line is government will never, ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
		Now we take you back to the night of August 17th, 1999.
		on Art Bell, somewhere in time.
		Music
		Bruce?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Eric, how you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're there, right?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I'm ready to go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a new hour.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		There once was a pig named Mate who was quite unaware of his fate.
		While living his life, he suffered no strife, but he's still wound up on my plate.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I think I've seen that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you see, there are poems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's poetry about.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Oh, is that somebody fast you that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		It's not really a poem about a slaughterhouse, though, is it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, in a way it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, he suffered no strife, but he's still wound up on my plate.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		There's a Wall Street Journal cartoon that's very cute.
		It was in, I think, about two weeks ago, an animal testing cartoon, and it said truly inhumane animal testing.
		And it had the animals crammed into this room, all sitting at their little tables with somebody with a ruler up in the front.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, that's horrible.
unidentified		I agree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's horrible.
		I'm just not going to fight with you on that.
		I mean, I know you're going to cram this information on us, but I'm not going to argue with you.
		I think that any living thing should be given good conditions in which to deliver the best that we can manage to provide.
		Stewardship is the answer.
		So I agree.
unidentified		Until they do that, doesn't it make sense that we don't participate in something that we don't believe in?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, how about Kobe beef?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, Japanese people massage these animals in Kobe, Japan.
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're some of the best beef in the entire world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And these guys, they get more than I get every day.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, then only buy...
		He's a leftist journalist.
		He writes for The Nation magazine, among other things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm certainly familiar with The Nation.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, anyway, he's one of the nation's columnists.
		He and Christopher Hitchens do off-weeks.
		They have sort of a column that they share week by week.
		And he eats meat still, but he only eats meat from a butcher that he knows who actually raises the animals.
		And it's a huge move in the right direction.
		And we certainly have to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it enough?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, is it enough for you?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, it's not.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		It's not that animals have interest in the same way human beings have interest in the mindset.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's another thing.
		Being a vegetarian does not necessarily make you a better person nor a more truthful person, does it?
		Because here I have in my hand from the UK news, Electronic Telegraph.
		I bet you know about this, don't you?
unidentified		Sure.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		It's a Belgium McDonald.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It says half, no, it says half of all vegetarians are secret meat eaters.
		Now, what kind of horrendous hypocrisy.
		I mean, fully 50% of those that you claim are in your camp are lying their butts off.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, what happened, I mean, how they got that statistic is they ask people, are you a vegetarian?
		And the person says, yes.
		And then they say, have you eaten any beef, pork, chicken, or fish in the last month?
		And half of the people say yes.
		It's not that they're lying.
		It's that they have a warped notion of what it means to be a vegetarian.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they certainly don't have the purity of the word at heart when they claim to be what they eat.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		But they're not being intentionally duplicitous.
		They just need a better dictionary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how about this then?
		How about this then?
		Again, from the Electronic Telegraph.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Vegetarian diet won't cut risk of heart disease is the headline.
		Claims by vegetarians that their diet is healthier than that of meat eaters are dismissed in a study which shows, listen now, Bruce, no difference in the level of heart disease.
		It is a study of more than 11,000 people over 13 years.
		The results show the difference in heart disease levels between meat eaters and vegetarians is statistically insignificant.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, that's clearly nonsense.
		Even the American Heart Association, certainly not a radical organization by any stretch of the imagination, dismisses that and says that a vegetarian diet is excellent in terms of preventing heart disease.
		You can be an unhealthy vegetarian just like you can be an unhealthy meat eater, certainly.
		But again, there are two people in human history who have ever reversed heart disease.
		They've both done it with a low-fat, vegan, actually completely vegetarian diet.
		And you know, the average vegan cholesterol is 123.
		I haven't met anybody on a complete vegetarian diet who has a cholesterol level above 140.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You ever heard of a heart bypass?
		Sure.
		That'll clear it up, too.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
		You know, in all of medical history, no one with a cholesterol level below 150 has ever had a heart attack.
		And the complete vegetarian has an average cholesterol level of about 123.
		Your web guy is awesome.
		He's already linked to Ornish's book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's really hot.
unidentified		He has a couple of really good quotes here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, that's one, I guess, huh?
		You say nobody with a cholesterol level of under 123 has ever had a heart attack.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Under 150.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Under 150?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Under 150.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		And the average cholesterol level for vegans, complete vegetarians, is 123.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do they call them vegans?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That sounds like you're from the planet vegan.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Why not just vegetarians or vegans or well, this guy, it's because the fellow who coined the term back in the 1940s, he decided to found the Royal Vegan Society, and that's what he called it.
		And what he said is it's got the beginning and the end of vegetarian.
		It takes vegetarianism to its logical extension.
		From a cruelty standpoint, there's nothing worse than eggs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, how about this?
		Let's examine, let's look at the larger picture.
		Let's look at nature itself.
		I went to Africa.
		Have you ever go to Africa?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's really cool.
		Anyway, we got to see all the big game, the big five they're called.
		And animals were constantly eating animals.
		Now, if nature did not intend for us to eat meat, then why would animals eat animals?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		This might be a discussion we want to have on the air, because this is one of the most popular of the questions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're on the air.
unidentified		Oh, are we?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I didn't even realize that.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		The short answer to that is that nature is cruel, and nature lives on the law of survival of the fittest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nature is cruel.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Nature is cruel, and nature works on survival of the fittest.
		Rape happens in nature.
		Animals eat their young in nature, and animals will battle to the death in territorial disputes in nature.
		And we don't base our ethics on the laws of nature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've already sure act the same way, roughly in life.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		You've already given me that gratuitous cruelty is not a good idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it isn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that marks the difference between intellect that we have and that animals don't.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		See, but that goes back to my contention that every time we sit down to eat, we're making a choice.
		Misery or mercy, life or death.
		Now, physiologically, human beings aren't intended to be eating animals.
		Every single carnivore shares about a dozen traits we don't share, including ten times the level of hydrochloric acid in their stomach so they can break down decomposing corpses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh my god.
		You were talking about sex earlier and that people who eat greens, nothing but greens and vegetables, have a better sex life.
		Sure.
		Now, how long have you been a vegetarian?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		A little over 12 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		12 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how old are you?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I'm just turned 30, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		30.
		30.
		So in other words, you're telling me that since you were, what, about 18 or something?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I turned completely vegetarian just before I turned 18.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just before you turned 18.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you wouldn't even know what a great big porter house and then sex is like, because you haven't had it, have you?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I think I might take the Fifth Amendment on that.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I grew up in Oklahoma, and there's not really a lot to do in Oklahoma, so people start kind of early.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On sex or steak?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, on both, actually.
		I think the state food in Oklahoma is the chicken-fried steak.
		And I ate an awful lot of those as I was growing up.
		And you know, back to the physiological.
		By the way, I also ran cross-country and played football in high school, and I found that my cross-country time, I'm kind of a bulky guy, so my cross-country time has never been that good.
		But in the course of about two months, when I went completely vegetarian, my cross-country time dropped from usually an average of about 45 minutes to an average of about 40 minutes.
unidentified		Un momento.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said...
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I am a complete vegetarian.
unidentified		Well, you said during a period of time when you went complete vegetarian?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		More than 12 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see, I see.
unidentified		You mean when you were first growing up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ruined forever from meat or how you know, how did that happen for you anyway?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you get ruined for meat like that?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, I read a book called Diet for a Small Planet by Frances Moore Lepe, and she's the one who makes the argument based on environmental grounds.
		She says, look, you put 20 calories into an animal, you get one calorie out.
		It's vastly inefficient.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's fine that's inefficient.
		A lot of things are inefficient.
		Animals make them bad.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Animals raised for food.
		They produce 230 times as much excrement as the entire human population.
		They don't have waste treatment systems.
		We feed, as I said earlier, more than 80% of our crops.
		We feed to animals.
		If you certify that your crops are going to be fed to animals, you can dump pesticides and herbicides onto them that you couldn't dump onto them if you weren't going to be feeding those crops to animals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That seems silly.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		And that, again, that pollutes our groundwater.
		It erodes our topsoil.
		Environmentally, raising animals for food is the worst thing we do in this society.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, the way we do it, I agree with you in North Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They've got a real problem with pigs and all the runoff into the ocean and the terrible things that's producing in the estuaries and all the rest of it.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		And dairy cows in California have completely destroyed.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		One of our best freshwater aquifers has been rendered completely undrinkable as a result of dairy cows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so if I were to bring you, Bruce, have you ever had Kobe beef, Bruce?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		No, I haven't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is an unbelievable, sensory experience that you would just, I mean, you could die for.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, they have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, so Kobe beef, as I said, is massaged by Japanese gals and maybe guys even, but mostly gals.
		This is it.
		These cattle have all the room you want.
		They are fed the very best.
		They're even given beer.
unidentified		And then they are hand-massaged.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You couldn't ask for a better life for a steak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You just couldn't ask for a better life.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Sounds good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if I were, well, does it?
		Really?
		In other words, if I were to bring you Kobe beef, would you be comfortable eating it?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Of course not.
		Animals have rights, and animals have inherent interests, and animals, like human beings, deserve not to be eaten.
		The reality is that, you know, going back to the concept of democracy that I started on earlier, it's a concept of the social contract.
		Again, you have the right to swing your fist, but that right is limited.
		You have limits on your rights wherever they conflict with the rights of others to be free from, for example, being hit by your fist.
		And what we're saying is that animals also have a right to be free from exploitation at the hands of human beings.
		And that includes slaughterhouses, and that includes factory farms and circuses and rodeos and laboratories.
		We extend this basic right to all human beings, and we should also be extending this basic right to all beings who have interests.
		And certainly, at the very least, we know that biologically, physiologically, mammals, birds, and fish all have, biologically and physiologically, the same pain response mechanisms that human beings do, and they therefore have the same right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't even eat fish.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		Fish don't scream out in pain.
		Fish are interesting animals and fish suffer.
		And the same way dogs and cats do.
		We don't understand them as well.
		They're not as cute and cuddly as puppies and kittens.
		Their cute and cuddly factor is very low.
		But physiologically, biologically, they have a capacity for pain and for suffering, and they deserve not to experience that at human hands.
		Going back to the health argument again, that no fiber, no carbohydrates, lots of saturated fat and cholesterol relative to vegetarian products, and going back to Dean Ornish and Dr. Esselstein at the Cleveland Clinic, no fish.
		It's not good for you.
		It's not good for the animals.
		Why do it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because fish is good.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, I grew up in Minnesota fishing fish, and I also grew up fishing for 12 years, land of 10,000 lakes.
		And I can tell you, they don't require any training to go out there and toss a hook into the water.
		And when you, oftentimes, you know, especially kids, you end up ripping, sometimes the fish will swallow the hook, bleed to death internally if you throw the fish back.
		Oftentimes you rip the fish's entire face right off because they're hurting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's not good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nobody's in favor of that.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Certainly nobody's in favor of it.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		But it's going to happen if you're fishing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's Anthony.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anthony writes to you, hey Bruce, if animals were not made to eat, then how come they're made of meat?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, Anthony, for the same reason that you're made of meat.
		Human beings are made of meat and animals are made of meat.
		That's a similarity that we share with animals.
		And I'm not going to come over to Anthony's house, even if he's smaller than me, I'm not going to come over there and fillet him.
		And he also shouldn't be filleting cows and pigs and chickens and other animals.
		Dogs and cats are made of meat also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You just really do draw a line.
		Even though I love animals, I have three cats and I love them.
		I dearly love them.
		But they are not the same thing as human beings.
		They have personalities.
		I give you that.
		They have feelings.
		I believe they feel emotions.
		But I mean, compare that, for example, to a fish.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		As you're aware, a cat is a mammal.
		And biologically and physiologically, cats and fish experience pain and pleasure in the same way.
		And you can't understand fish, but that doesn't take away from fish their uniqueness and their interestingness and their capacity for suffering.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then why aren't they smart enough not to bite a worm on a hook, for God's sake?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Where seafood comes from, they have these 40-mile-long drift nets.
		They comb the bottoms of the ocean.
		In addition to destroying the aqua ecosystems on the oceans, they also just sweep up everything in their path.
		And half of this stuff is fed to cows and pigs and chickens on factory farms.
		And interestingly, we also feed all of the downer cows and pigs and chickens back to cows and pigs and chickens.
		So we've turned these naturally vegetarian animals not just into carnivores, but actually into cannibals.
		We're feeding cows to cows and pigs to pigs and chickens to chickens.
		And also half of the sea life that these factory trawlers dredge up from the oceans, half of that also goes into cows and pigs and chickens, naturally, again, vegetarians.
		And it's so unnatural and it's such a complete perversion.
		And the amount, the immensity of the suffering is so vast that from a strictly animal welfare standpoint, people of good conscience should not be taking part in this stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see you're going after McDonald's, aren't you?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		We are going after McDonald's.
		McDonald's is lying to people.
		It's the most remarkable thing.
		They actually say on their website and in their correspondence that they meet all government regulations for animal welfare.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe they do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know they're lying?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Because they have produced a video that advocates breaking the law.
		They have produced a video.
		It's really just unbelievable.
		The first thing is they're conveniently ignoring the fact that there are no regulations for animals on farms or during transportation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I happen to love McDonald's.
		I mean, among, of all the people that actually make hamburgers, McDonald's probably has the best-tasting hamburger of them all.
		Hold on, Bruce.
		We'll be back.
		It's the bottom of the hour.
		You'll get to respond.
		Stay right there.
		Here it is again, because I can't get it out of my head.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight's an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 17th, 1999.
		I could never find your life.
		Just trying to decide all day by all night.
		I know I could find it.
		I couldn't remember the answer to the questions that keep going through my heart.
		Baby, if you say that the way I'm telling you all the same, it's just not the time.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		Free Beer Radio Networks presents Art Bell somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired August 17th, 1999.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know there's nothing in the world, nothing, that duplicates the taste of a quarter pounder.
		And I don't care where on the globe you go, a quarter pounder, far, far away, doesn't matter.
		Quarter pounders are the same.
		I'll tell you, you take a quarter pounder without cheese, and you've got something that has the most distinctive taste in the world.
		Now, I'm sure he's also had to say something really terrible about McDonald's.
		But I'll tell you right now, in Paris, where they, Paris, France, which I love, they don't even have a clue about how to cook meat.
		And that's because they really don't cook it.
		What they actually do is they, if you, when you complain that your food is not, your meat is not cooked, they take it in the back room and they paint it brown.
		I'm convinced.
		So when I was in Paris, I walked miles and miles to get to a McDonald's.
		Miles and miles.
		I really did.
		It was so good.
unidentified		It was like real food again, folks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, Bruce will be right back.
		But quite a bit.
		We've got to get done here, and I'd better find out what it is.
		Oh, boy.
		You get so wrapped up in what you're doing, you forget about your commercials.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		Now we take you back to the night of August 17th, 1999.
		on Art Bell, somewhere in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure that, Bruce, you're going to say all the things about McDonald's that you've been saying about the other meat manufacturers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I suppose you're after McDonald's because they're the biggest, right?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, we're after McDonald's because in June of 1997, a British high court judge, after the longest trial in British history, ruled that McDonald's was culpably responsible for cruelty to animals.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the same thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You spent two hours of the time.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		Certainly McDonald's is not the only one, but McDonald's claims to care about the treatment of animals on their farms and in slaughterhouses.
		And McDonald's lies about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Their quarter pounders are better.
		Their hamburgers are better tasting.
		They have some formula that they use.
		Or, Bruce, the way they treat animals.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		The way they treat animals is abominable.
		Well, then why are quarter pounders?
		They claim that they require their suppliers to meet all federal regulations.
		They conveniently ignore the fact that there are no federal regulations on the farm or during transportation.
		And they have paid to produce a video that actually advocates violating the law.
		It's just the most remarkable duplicity, the most remarkable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought you just said there were no regulations.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		There's one regulation that has to do with slaughterhouses.
		There are no regulations on the farm.
		There are no regulations during transportation.
		So the British High Court found McDonald's culpably responsible for cruelty to animals spelled out in over 80 pages, 600 ways.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To be fair to McDonald's here, I mean, look, you're complaining about slaughterhouses all across the United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, and you're saying that they're all doing this roughly the same way, cruel, according to you, right?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		But if McDonald's is going to claim to want to be a leader in animal welfare, as last Friday's Wall Street Journal and the Associated Press story that hit the wire last night claim, they say they want to be a leader in animal welfare.
		They refuse to even look at the half a dozen ways that the judge spelled out that they're cruel to animals.
		For example, searing the beaks off of chickens with a hot iron so that millions of years starve to death.
		For example, cramming these chickens by the tens of thousands of sheds cooped in their own seas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These are exactly the same things that you said earlier about other people.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		And because McDonald's has only two suppliers of chickens and two suppliers of eggs, they could change these practices.
		Because McDonald's is working with, supposedly, these slaughterhouses, they could issue some sort of sanction against people who violate the USDA Humane Slaughter Act.
		Not only will they not issue a sanction, but they have produced a video saying that if 5% of the animals end up skinned alive and dismembered while fully conscious, that's an acceptable level.
		The USDA says 100%.
		And their video, the next line in the video is, well, the USDA requires 100%.
		Well, that is violating federal law.
		They are advocating violating federal law where animal welfare is concerned.
		Maybe it's reprehensible.
		Maybe people shouldn't buy it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But maybe, Bruce, they're saying that in the world of slaughterhouses, which is not a good world, I'm sure it's not a good world, that they're doing better than the average.
		Maybe that's what they're saying.
		Maybe they're saying we're not perfect and nobody's perfect, but we're doing better than the others.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, they certainly haven't shown that they're doing better than the others.
		And in our negotiations, which have been going on for a couple of years, we have said, now, their animal welfare consultant is a wonderful woman, Dr. Temple Grandin at Colorado State University.
		And we asked, we said, okay, so people violate Dr. Grandin's audits and their announced audits.
		What do you do?
		McDonald's does nothing.
		We said to Dr. Grandin, what would be a really great way to approach 100% stunning effectiveness?
		And she said, well, if they hired a second person to be a stunner on the line, and remember, this job occupation, slaughterhouse worker, has nine times the rate of injury of coal miners in Appalachia.
		So if you care about human beings, it's another good reason not to be eating animal products.
		But we said, so what could they do?
		And she said they could hire a second stunner.
		And we said, well, if McDonald's were to whisper to their suppliers that they should hire a second stunner, what would happen?
		And Dr. Grandon said they'd all hire a second stunner.
		And we said to McDonald's, you going to do it?
		And they said, no.
		McDonald's cares not one whit about animal welfare.
		They care about public relations.
		They care about lying to consumers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly fair to McDonald's.
		And McDonald's ought to have a spokesperson here to defend themselves for this.
		I mean, you're definitely attacking them.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm saying that if they are producing something that says they're at least trying harder, or at least talking about it, then that's more than a lot of them are doing, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because a lot of them aren't talking and won't talk about this at all, will they?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		No, a lot of them won't talk about it at all.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		And I wonder if talking and lying about it actually is preferable to doing nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, talking is always a precursor to action, or most always is a precursor to action.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you should be happy that they're talking.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		We've been trying to be in good faith negotiations with McDonald's for two years, and we haven't seen any evidence that they care at all about anything other than how this affects their public relations status.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I love their hamburgers anyway.
		Anybody from McDonald's who wants to come on is welcome to come on.
		Then I'll have Bruce back, and you can go at it.
		Here's something for you, Bruce.
		I fail to understand why a reasonably intelligent person like yourself, meaning me, would give any airtime to extremist animal rights groups like PETA.
		Didn't you know they support domestic terrorism through the Animal Liberation Front, whom they have paid the legal fees of those caught burning down labs and even worse, I would not wish to be associated with such a group.
		I would do some depth investigation of this group before ever talking to them online.
		All right, well, so do you, in fact, with money, bail out Animal Liberation Front people who get put in a slammer or burning down labs?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Not that I'm aware of.
		We don't bail out people who get put in the slammer.
		I think it's interesting, you know, the Animal Liberation Front.
		I think people need to ask themselves what they're doing to stop animal cruelty.
		It's very easy to point at other people and say, you know, you've gone too far.
		But I think it's a very reasonable question to say, what am I doing to try to be as compassionate and as kind as I possibly can rather than pointing fingers at other people and saying, you know, those people are going too far.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your position on abortion?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		My personal position is to be against it.
		And the thing I find really quite remarkable about so many other people who claim the pro-life moniker is that they claim to be pro-life, and they're perfectly willing to sit down and dine on, again, tortured corpses.
		This is so anti-life.
		You couldn't be any more anti-life than requiring suffering and death every time you sit down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, but an awful lot of PETA people are pro-abortion, and you know it.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have more than 600,000 members, and we have people on both sides of the political spectrum.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but to be honest with me, Bruce, what percentage of those 600,000 do you think are pro-abortion?
		Be honest.
		Brutally honest.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, Art.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		really couldn't even begin to speculate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you could.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you could.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I do think that both animal rights and animal welfare transcend these sort of boundaries, having to do with liberal and conservative, and having to do with...
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Forget liberal and...
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we're talking about what most or many people believe to be a human life.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A human life.
unidentified		Not an animal life, but a human life.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		See, but realistically, animals and humans suffer in the same way.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		And I, as somebody who is pro-life, there's not a tremendous amount that I can do without a lot of effort.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think I'm hypocritical to, on the one hand, be touchy-feely with animals, which is fine, and on the other, be pro-abortion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That one just doesn't add up, brother.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I might agree with you, Art, and I do agree with you.
		But I think that realistically, it's worth asking ourselves where we can have a positive influence for mercy and compassion.
		So as somebody who's a pro-life activist, you can go out and scream at other people.
		But as somebody who simply adopts a vegetarian diet, every time you sit down to eat, you're making an option for mercy and compassion.
		And I would encourage people, when you sit down to eat, if you want to have a burger, think about the slaughterhouse.
		Paint a picture for yourself.
		Think about a treasured companion animal hanging upside down, dismembered, and skinned alive.
		And ask yourself if that's something that jibes with your concept of yourself as a moral person or an ethical person.
		Because we all know it's immoral to do that to a dog or a cat.
		None of us would advocate doing that to a dog or a cat.
		It's equally immoral to do that to a cow or a pig, a chicken, or a hat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I don't agree with doing that.
unidentified		How about that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		i don't agree with i i think that will Well, I'm all for working.
		This is where I'm in the center, and you're way out there somewhere.
		I'm all for working as hard as possible on improving the conditions of the animals.
		But that wouldn't be enough for you.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		It would be a huge step in the right direction, and that's where we spend the vast majority of our time and effort right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it wouldn't stop you?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		No, we believe, and again, this goes back to the question of animal rights as opposed to animal welfare.
		We believe that animals are not here for human purposes.
		We believe that animals have interests in the same way that human beings have interests.
		But I'll tell you, the vast majority of our budget goes into trying to convince people to simply improve conditions for animals on farms, for animals who are raised for food, for animals who are raised for experimentation.
		It is such a violent reality for this animal that we really have few disagreements with the Humane Society of the United States, a wonderful organization that works on animal welfare.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		example, I really abhor the use of animals for commercial experimentation involving some new makeup or whatever in God's name they're doing, but on the other hand, if they're able to experiment on animals and come up with a spinal cord, a cure for people who have severed their spinal cords, then that is a proper stewardship, Bruce.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		We spend more than 99% of our research money we spend on trying to find cures for things when, according to our own search in general, 90% of this disease is lifestyle related.
		We need to spend more money on prevention.
		It's also the case that animal research costs both human and animal lives every year.
		I mean, look at protease inhibitors for AIDS.
		They were shelved for six years because of faulty animal experimentation, and a lot of people died very miserable AIDS deaths as a result.
		The polio vaccine, shelved for 10 years because of faulty experimentation on animals.
		Tobacco research, for goodness sake.
		Tobacco still doesn't cause lung cancer in dogs and chickens, and consequently the tobacco company executives get up and say the evidence is inconclusive.
		The list goes on and on and on, and I can tell you based on having worked in a shelter for homeless families for more than six years that people have very long waiting lists and get bumped off of drug treatment programs and rehabilitation programs very quickly for the minorest of violations.
		And in the meantime, we're spending hundreds of millions of dollars to study the effects of cocaine and alcohol and tobacco on animals.
		We know the effects on human beings.
		Why on earth are we doing this nonsense?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		You know, I'm not going to argue that with you because I'm simply not for cruelty to animals.
		And I am for all the things that you really want to do.
		It's just that even if we had all those done, Bruce and PETA would not be happy.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Let me toss out a sort of a role play here for a second, okay?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Let's suspend reality and imagine an invasion from outer space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I do that all the time.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
		Beings land, and they communicate only telepathically and in a language we don't understand.
		They're far more intelligent than we are.
		They're far more powerful, and they have an ability to take us into captivity.
		And they do that.
		And they cram some of us into solitary pens.
		They force feed and ground up the remains of other human beings and they feed them back to us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To serve man.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		We live our entire, well, to serve the alien race.
		We serve our entire lives standing in our own feces, breathing in the fumes, and many of us die from these crowded and silky conditions.
		They're castrating the men without painkillers.
		They're artificially inseminating the women and turning them into milk machines.
		They're taking the women's babies away and taking ourselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about the graze.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, what I'm basically saying here is that we have turned animals into these beings that are useful only to the degree to which we can use them.
		And that is as unjustified as turning other human beings this way.
		We may be more intelligent than animals.
		We certainly have the capacity to turn animals into machines and to use them as so many inanimate objects, so many boxes in a warehouse.
		But that doesn't make it right.
		And I would ask people to remember that from the 1520s until the 1860s, we did treat human beings that way.
		We treated African American human beings that way for more time on this continent than we've not treated them that way.
		It was only 140 years ago that we had slavery in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bruce, I honestly do view people and animals much as I love them in a different category.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, I understand that, and society tends to view them in a different category as well.
		But I would posit that in 100 years, we're going to look back on our present-day treatment of animals with the same horror and revulsion that we presently reserve for the way we look back at animals.
		Well, I think they're going to have a Bill of Rights in the same way that human beings, like babies, who also can't give back to society, or human beings who are mentally deficient can't give back to society.
		Animals deserve to be protected from exploitation in the same way that other human beings deserve to be protected from exploitation, regardless of their capacity to fulfill on the social contract.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let people want to talk to you, and so I should not hog you.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Bruce Friedrich of PETA.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is Andy from Largo, Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Andy.
unidentified		Hey, good to talk to you.
		Bruce, okay, don't get defensive.
		Just hear me out.
		Don't interrupt.
		Okay.
		I think you've got a lot of good ideas, and your intent's good, but I think you're kind of stuck with the metaphor and don't realize it's reference.
		Example, there's a documentary on the nomadic Pune Dayaks of Borneo's Sikh Interior, our tribe.
		And they talk about the natural rhythms of the earth.
		In other words, if everybody just stopped eating chicken and meat and everything else like that, you know, in about three months, and I was told this by a friend of mine who's really into maths and stuff, that the earth rhythms would be thrown off.
		And not only that, here's a quick little story.
		I got a friend, Mike, where I used to live in Michigan.
		And he met this girl, and she wanted to be a photographer, and she wanted to be a model, and her parents lived in upstate New York so he moved away with her for six months well he took a couple weeks off and came back home well she was a vegetarian and her mother was a vegetarian but her father wasn't and her father was a um is now a retired neurologist and I've talked to him and there's a lot of other professionals I've talked to who who don't agree with you as far as it being good for the body anyway when Mike came
		home
		he looked different because you know he turned a vegetarian you know as a faith he kept his faith he hung in there for six months but when he came back you know according to vegetarians he was healthy but you know i know him i grew up with him he looked ill his complexion looked off he didn't look right he said he felt kind of okay but in a way he just felt like there was something missing you see mike that's right people say that they say they feel great but to the rest of us they look emaciated right their color is poor
		right they just we bought some ground chuck and you know we got fed up and i was making hamburgers and i'm nice while i you know turn on the gas grill and he was like god that smells good and anyway we talked him into eating one he said don't tell my old lady please well no we won't you know my buddies are on five of us he sat there and he ate three of them yeah within it was 20 minutes right and he was 20 minutes his whole complexion change and it's like the blood was flowing again and then
		within 45 minutes once these proteins were hitting his bloodstream yes he says andy i feel alive and art he was just glowing and then yes there's a lot of medical science professionals out there who will back up this claim i know i look i i believe every word you said bruce um he's the guy is right no
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		the guy is very much not right you can certainly be okay let bruce say something you can certainly be an unhealthy vegetarian it's easier to be an unhealthy carnivore the fact is these foods are laden with saturated fat and cholesterol they're devoid of carbohydrates and fiber and people like michael eisner steve jobs pamela anderson kim basinger jenny garth many many people have adopted vegetarian diets they're doing just fine thank you and if you go into the diet not wanting to do it as this fellow obviously did if
		you eat nothing but you know twizzlers and coca-cola certainly you're going to waste away and you're going to be pale and you're going to have problems but the fact is even the american dietetic association who gets awards from the meat industry the heart association the cancer society the usda for gracious sake all of these people and the medical evidence could not be more conclusive if you want to stave off heart disease cancer stroke obesity the biggest killers the worst health problems we're having in this country a veggie diet is the way to go okay listen this is very important okay
		okay this is backed up by a friend of mine who's not who's not only a doctor in philosophy but he's also a veterinarian listen uh let me call her at the veg hotline before we go to break what well all right though only be to call her stay on the line i'll bring you back uh what is the veggie hotline it's toll free we'll send a free vegetarian starter pack it's eight eight eight eight veg food eight eight eight v-e-g-f-o-o-d our expense free information free information that's eight eight eight veg
art bell ▲ ● ▼		food what a cutie number i hate those things what during the break figure out what the real number is for me all right i sure will all right stay right there.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's
		featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 17 1999 I'm Dr. Dina Dell AIO
		Hey ya, hey ya, hey ya, oh.
		Hey ya, hey ya, oh.
		Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 17, 1999.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell.
		And I have not told anybody tonight that I've been switching my headsets.
		You know, the headset microphone.
		I've got a brand new one, and I used it in the first hour.
		And then in the second hour, I went back to my old one, and now I'm coming back to my new one again.
		And what I just discovered is I can no longer swing around and empty my ashtray in the trash can without ripping my own head off.
unidentified		So there's one big difference right away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Others, now that I've said something, will say, well, yes, I can hear the difference in the audio.
unidentified		Oh.
		the truth you'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
		When you look at what's going on around this planet, it's almost as if someone has got a playbook to try to control all these countries all of a sudden.
		I've always said that not everything is a conspiracy, but a lot of it is.
		You know, when you start looking into things, there's only certain set of conclusions you can reach.
		And unfortunately, this is one of them.
		You know, it's very, very hard not to see things like that when you start looking at things in a larger picture.
		Coast at Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
		Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
		And if you're a Coast Insider, you'll have our great subscriber features right on your phone, including the ability to listen to live programs and stream previous shows.
		No special app is necessary to enjoy our new mobile site.
		Simply visit CoastToCoastAM.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
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		Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure.
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		If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insiders.
		Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up today.
		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
		I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
		I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by a mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
		Governments won't do that.
		And the reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
		They think that they'll lose control of us if we know.
		If you actually truly believed that we were being visited by extraterrestrials and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that government throws out all the time?
		Absolutely not.
		You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
		And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
		So the bottom line is government will never, ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
		You're listening to Art Bells Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 17, 1999.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coast to Coast AM Before we go back to my wildcard line caller, and we're going to, I want to ask Bruce a question.
		First of all, I guess let's get that number.
		888 VegFood turns out to be actually what?
		888.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Don't dial 800 or there's a caterer who will be annoyed.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		888-834-3663.
unidentified		It's 834-3663.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		There's also a flashing link on meatstinks.com so people can get the same veg pack through the web.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying if you dial 800, you reach a caterer by mistake?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's a vegetarian caterer who has 1-800 veg packs.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was wondering if he catered meat.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, look, I really want a straight-out answer on this.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		On which?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The question I'm about to ask, and then we'll go back to this caller who's got more for you, I know.
		My straight-out question is, do you support in spirit or in more than spirit the groups that are out there burning down labs and clinics?
		Do I personally support them?
		You know what I'm talking about?
		The Animal Liberation Front.
		Do you support them?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I personally or PETA?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I don't know that it's really important.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll take both.
		I'll take both views.
		Okay.
		Yours and PETA's.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, I personally don't do that, and PETA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't say do it.
		I didn't say do it.
		I said, do you support them in principle?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		In principle, the Animal Liberation Front has as part of its credo that all steps are taken to not harm an animal or a human being.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I understand that.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		And it seems to me that the level of violence that's perpetrated against animals, I'm certainly not going to condemn people who decide that the violence is just too great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, why would you not condemn people, Bruce, who break the law?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, Art, because some laws are unjust.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		The laws that allow animals to be treated like boxes in a warehouse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you were raging away at McDonald's a little while ago, but to support groups that would burn down a lab?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		You know, considering McDonald's, I'm hurting people for burning every McDonald's to the ground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, good lord.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's horrible.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry that you're not going to be able to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
		Absolutely.
		You've really gone over the line now.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've really gone over the line now because you just, on the one hand, you complain about the way you perceive their treatment of animals to be, and you say, well, they're breaking the law because of this.
		And on the other hand, out of your mouth comes, well, I wouldn't blame people for bringing down all the McDonald's.
		That's a horrendous violation of the law.
		And so Bruce, the law is the law.
		The law is the law, Bruce.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Some laws are made to be broken.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, apparently the ones you don't like.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that Martin Luther King Jr. said very, very well that an unjust law is no law.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you've got it all backwards.
		I would be in favor of improving the conditions of the animals so that the laws are not broken and not seeing anything burned down.
		You know, I see your position as very inconsistent.
		And that's kind.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		We don't put any of our resources, time, or effort into burning anything down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I understand that, but you are in sympathy with a group that does do that.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		So in sympathy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And anyway, here's the caller back again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wild Carline, you're back on.
unidentified		Hi, Eric.
		Thanks for keeping me over.
		Sure.
		I don't know.
		Basically, in my ending thought, I've got a lot of friends that are professionals, from vets to internal medicine specialists.
		In my ending thought, of all the medical professionals I've talked to about this issue, why does it seem that 90% of them have this to say?
		Though they don't like to talk about it, meaning vegetarians, an alarming percent of them have to take another protein source, vitamin-based.
		These mineral-based sources are the same mineral-based proteins that we get that we non-vegetarians get in our daily diet.
		Okay.
		And on that note, Art, thank you for my call, okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		And we'll listen now to the answer.
		Now, he made a very good point, that vegetarians are forced to take supplements that one would normally associate with the eating of meat.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		He made two points.
		And the first one he made earlier had to do with the Earth's natural rhythms.
		I would just point out that we're factory farming more than 8 billion animals every single year.
		Chickens live fewer than two months.
		Pigs live fewer than six.
		We've turned these animals into so many boxes in a warehouse.
		The violence perpetrated against these animals is so extreme.
		And the crap, the pesticides and herbicides dumped on their food.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bruce, did you hear the bumper music I was playing?
		Listen to this.
		Listen to this.
unidentified		Listen, Bruce.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what that is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's Native American stuff.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I understand that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you?
		And what did they do?
		And what do they still do when they have the opportunity?
		When there were buffalo around, they killed buffalo and they ate buffalo.
		And Native Americans are as close to the original rhythm of the earth as you can get.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're not Native Americans.
		We're Americans who have turned animals into so many machines and so many boxes in a warehouse, and the suffering and the misery and the cruelty is so unimaginably extreme.
		And these slaughterhouses are so violent and so bloody, they're routinely skinning these animals alive, dipping these animals into boiling hot water for hair removal while they're still conscious and kicking.
		This is the violence you're supporting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're paying for it, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going out of my way.
		Well, I suppose that is certainly true.
		And that, I will admit, is some sort of inconsistency on my part.
		But I see a big one on your part, Bruce.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, Andy's second point having to do with the medical professionals, it's just patently absurd.
		The medical professionals have lined up to support a vegetarian diet.
		You're not going to find condemnation of a vegetarian diet from any established health organization.
		The Pediatric Society, the American Heart Association, the Cancer Society, the American Medical Association, even the USDA, which basically works as a spokes drone for the meat and dairy industry in this country, even the USDA in their Dietary Recommendations for Americans says that a vegetarian diet is an excellent diet for preventing heart disease, cancer, and so on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But do they do they say?
		Does the USDA say you should not eat meat?
		No.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		They don't say you shouldn't eat meat, but they say you'll be healthier if you don't, which is basically the same thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All of these are callers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We could go at it and go at it.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going once.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're on the air, sir.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's rock and roll.
unidentified		I'm calling from Indianapolis, Indiana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		And I might have misprinted myself.
		I said I'm a member of PETA.
		Let me put this.
		My mom's a member, and I believe in all this about not experimenting on animals and this and that.
		And she says, Mike, you know, you really ought to have given me this.
		I said, okay, fine.
		They send me literature, and I'll be honest, I don't read a whole lot of it.
		I don't have the time.
		But from what I gather, I go along with not, you know, I don't like them, you know, using animals, you know, see about perfume, that kind of garbage.
		But the food thing, I mean, like you were saying earlier, Art, I mean, the stuff tastes good.
		Yeah.
		And, you know, I mean, you know, let's face it, McDonald's double cheeseburger is pretty good, okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they're delicious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Their quarter pounder is nothing compares to it.
unidentified		But I, you know, I give her money to send it for me, and they send me this stuff.
		I like to have time to read it.
		But to advocate burning down McDonald's, that kind of thing.
		Yeah.
		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's terrible.
		That's terrible.
		Absolutely terrible.
		I agree with you, sir.
		All right, so there's somebody who gives to your organization because he opposes cruelty.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I think we should look and see where the violence is really being done.
		If a McDonald's burns down and no one is hurt, who is harmed by that?
		What's harmed by that is McDonald's?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what it's called?
		It's called arson.
		It's a very serious law, Bruce.
		It's called arson.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And if these were, and I'm not saying it's exactly the same thing, but what I am saying is that it would still be arson.
		If these were concentration camp gas ovens being burned to the ground, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, we wouldn't.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		See, and the fact is it would still be arson, and it would still be in violation of the law, and it would still be just, and it would still be the right thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what I'm trying to point out to you is that the law is the law.
		And I'm sure you're not really, or maybe you are in favor of arson.
		What do I know?
		You shouldn't be.
		But I agree with you that some laws regarding the treatment of animals certainly should change.
		I'm all for that.
		And I think the best way you can get constructive change, ultimately, Bruce, and I really mean this, is not by burning down McDonald's restaurants, but by engaging them in constructive discussion.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		We have been attempting to engage them in constructive discussion for over two years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But Bruce, you've already told me that at least they're talking to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what about all of these other people who would slam the door in your face and probably kick you in the shins if they talked about it?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		McDonald's is completely unwilling to do one thing to commit and actually show some positive constructive change for animal welfare.
		Well, keep out of it.
		We've been talking to them for two years, and I agree with you.
		It's an important thing to do.
		I think that talking and negotiation is important.
		I think demonstrations are important.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know that.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I think letter right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know what would happen if you went to a lot of other restaurant chains?
		They'd throw you out on your behind.
		And at least McDonald's is talking to you.
		So if not now, then maybe in the fairly near future, you'll get somewhere with them.
		Maybe they'll be the breakthrough organization.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		And who knows?
		And maybe it will be because more McDonald's burned down.
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, that's where you go totally off the cliff.
		The law really is the law.
		You're trying, on one hand, to change it within the system.
		You're saying this law stinks, so we're going to break it.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		When Martin Luther King Jr. was sitting down and refusing to leave the establishments that wouldn't serve people a basic lunch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He wasn't burning them down.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Nobody was breaking the law.
		You're the one who's saying the law is the law.
		Civil disobedience has a long and well-respected history in this country.
		And, you know, dumping the teacher between the founding of this country, but today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know what would happen if you dumped a bunch of tea today?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The EPA would arrest your butt.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		That's true enough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Bruce Friedrich.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Mike in Denver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Mike.
unidentified		I just want to thank you for taking my call.
		And I love the show so far and your guest points, but I have to ask him a few questions, like three or one, like you said, the law is the law.
		And it's a cruel world in nature.
		And you've got to eat.
		And the laws of nature dictate that a lot of animals are carnivorous and violently kill their prey.
		What makes it different or immoral for humans?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, in the same way, Mike, that you may be smaller than me or you may be bigger than me.
		I don't know.
		We're on the phone.
		But if you're smaller than me, the law of nature would dictate that if I liked your car, I'd take it.
		But the law of society says we have morals and we have standards and I don't do that.
		And the law of nature might say that if we get in a disagreement, we fight to the death.
		But that doesn't mean human beings are going to legalize homicide.
		We're not going to do that.
		We have to hold ourselves to an ethic of compassion and mercy.
		And again, it just boils down to this.
		We all know that it would be wrong to torture or kill a dog or a cat.
		Why are we willing, for a simple palate preference, because it tastes good?
		Why are we willing to suspend reality and force so much misery and violence and bloodshed on our people?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's all a matter of perspective.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, the Thai people, for example, do eat, Filipinos do occasionally eat dogs and cats.
unidentified		They eat them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And other countries eat them, too.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		And it horrifies some people.
		And it's so amusing, you know, because I get these calls from people saying, oh, my God, do you realize they're eating dogs in Thailand?
		And I say, my gracious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's kind of a double standard.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		And I say, my gracious, do you think we're doing anything like that here?
		And people are flummoxed.
		But the reality is there isn't a moral difference between factory farming and eating a dog or a cat or factory farming and eating any other animal.
unidentified		But what makes humans different from the rest of animals who can go out there and hunt and sneak up on and attack and violently kill their prey?
		Just like we would scare to death a cow in a slaughterhouse.
		What makes us so different from those animals?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		We've got to eat.
unidentified		Is there enough vegan food in the world to feed everybody without all the meat?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, the reality, again, and this goes back to the reason I went vegan in the first place 12 years ago, the reality is that we feed more than 70% of our grains in this country.
		About 80% we feed to animals.
		And it's the worst thing that we're doing to the environment.
		So you have to put 20 calories.
		Animals live their lives.
		You have to put 20 calories into an animal to get one calorie out of an animal.
		We could feed vastly more people on an exclusively vegan diet because the land would be used more efficiently.
		We also wouldn't be destroying the topsoil by dumping the herbicides and pesticides onto it that we couldn't dump onto it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and if that was all you had was vegetables to eat, it would taste like crap.
unidentified		But I think that's an awesome answer.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, the reality today is that we have faux meats for absolutely every occasion.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		If you can do it with animal products, you can do it just as effectively without them, just as deliciously, but without the cholesterol, without the unsaturated fat, and hopefully without the pangs of conscience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not just as deliciously.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No way.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
unidentified		I don't think so.
		You've got to try some vegan foods.
		Oh, well, look, I like eating vegetables.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't particularly like vegetables.
		I eat them because I'm told that I have to eat some.
		That's the only reason.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		They're doing with grains and soy and beans and texturized vegetable protein.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		It's amazing what they're doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, I'll tell you something.
		I lived in Japan for 10 years, and you would go by these stores where they would have these, oh man, these beautiful, beautiful chocolate cakes.
		They look delicious.
		And you would go in and you would buy them.
		And you know what they'd turn out to be?
		They'd turn out to be made out of soy.
		They tasted horrible.
		You bit into it and you expect a chocolate cake and you get this horrid little soy mixture of tolerable.
		Bruce, hold on.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 17, 1999.
		Music Music Music She's been looking like a queen sailor's free.
		She's all the same, but she believes I think it's a shame.
		When I get feeling better, when we're feeling okay, I think it's a shame.
		And I get feelin'better when I'm livin'no pain Like a picture of the move that a man could make.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 17th, 1999.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bruce Friedrich from PETA is here at People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.
unidentified		but not restaurants.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of August 17, 1999, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art Bell, Somewhere in Time Here we go again with Bruce Friedrich of Peter.
		And we're going to go to the phones in this segment, this last half hour.
		And so here you are.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Bruce Friedrich.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
		Hello.
		Where are you?
unidentified		Northern California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		My name's Larry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Larry.
unidentified		What your guest has been saying, and I've been listening to him for some time here now this evening, and I know for a fact, from listening to him, that he knows that what he's laying out is a lot of it is a bunch of bull.
		He's not giving you the truth.
		That low-calorie, all-vegetable diet that is clearing up the cholesterol out of the bloodstreams, it's not clearing it up because of being an all-vegetable diet.
		It's clearing it up because of it being a low-fat diet, low in saturated fats.
		Now, if they fry that food up in a bunch of hydrogenated vegetable oil, their cholesterol is going to shoot up as high as a person living on pork.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think you're actually making a very good point.
		And you can buy, if you do it, extremely lean meat.
		Right, Bruce?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, the leanest meat is still about 30% fat and laden with cholesterol.
		And I would just point out, I mean, quoting from Newsweek, your web guy has just linked to Dean Ornish's book.
		And quoting from Newsweek, it says, Dr. Ornish's work could change the lives of millions.
		At the end of the year, most patients reported that their chest pains had virtually disappeared.
		For 82%, arterial clogging had reversed.
		Again, that's never happened in human history before Ornish.
		They started to feel better almost immediately, and today they feel great.
		Dr. Ornish's patients are thrilled with their lives.
		By the standards of conventional medicine, the impossible happened.
		And then from Esquire, Dr. Dean Ornish is the first clinician to offer documented proof that heart disease can be halted or even reversed simply by changing your lifestyle.
		Participants reduced or discontinued medications.
		Their chest pain diminished or disappeared.
		They felt more energetic, happy, and calm.
		They lost weight while eating more, and blockages in coronary arteries actually began to reverse.
		The only other person who's ever done this, also with a low-fat vegetarian diet, published in the latest issue of the American Journal of Cardiology, Professor Ethelstein at the Cleveland Clinic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On and on you go.
		Bruce, listen to me.
		They've also got a new drug, which I can't name, which cleans out your arteries.
		What about that?
		So you eat all the meat you want, you clean out your arteries.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, so far, with drugs, they've never been able to clean out people's arteries with the exception of this one study from the Cleveland Clinic and the latest journal of the American Journal of Cardiology.
		And that also required a low-fat vegetarian diet.
		And the color's right.
		You can be an unhealthy vegetarian.
		It's harder to do, and even the leanest cuts of meat are still laden with cholesterol, laden with saturated fat relative to their vegetarian counterparts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why then would so many vegetarians look emaciated?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do so many vegetarians look sick?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Anytime you feel like dropping by our office's art, I surely encourage you to do it.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I think, you know, can you say that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But how could I believe it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because here I've got a story saying half of the vegetarians lie and they eat meat.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		We had that discussion already.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We did, but I mean, if you're going to point to some real bulked up person and say, look here, a healthy vegetarian.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		It's not that people were lying.
		When they were asked, have you had any meat in the last month?
		Half of them said yes.
		The reality is if you're a vegetarian for ethical reasons, it means when you sit down to eat, you're not dining on tortured beings, period.
		Ever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Call her, call her, we're having a caller, call her.
unidentified		Yeah, well, see, he just did it again, and I got a whole bunch of points, because I raise cattle and I raise chickens.
		And well, he did it again.
		He just said that the leanest meat you can get is 30% fat, and that's a pile of bull.
		It's almost impossible to find meat that's anywhere near 30% fat anymore.
		The lean meat is 20% fat maximum, and the extra lean meat is 10% fat.
		You know what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're absolutely right, because I've seen that on the labels in the grocery stores.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, and you see 2% milk.
		You see milk labeled 2%.
		And if you read calorically, that milk is 30% or more fat.
		It's a calorie thing as opposed to a weight thing.
		So what people really need to do is monitor that half of it.
unidentified		Dairy fat doesn't hurt you one bit because dairy fat is a monounsaturated fat that is incapable of solidifying in the bloodstream at body temperature, so it never does pack up and clog arteries or anything.
unidentified		I drink a gallon a day of raw milk and I have a cholesterol level of 82.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure a cholesterol level of 82 is physically possible.
		Maybe you're talking about either your LDL or your HDL.
		No.
unidentified		Well, I am talking overall total number.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, then you have obviously a zero chance of a heart attack.
		And not every meat eater is going to die of a heart attack.
		But the average meat eater's cholesterol level is over 200, and the average vegan's cholesterol level is 123.
		And I would encourage people to read.
		Larry, I would encourage people to check the labels, because the reality is, calorie for calorie, The leanest cuts of meat are still 30% fat.
		And they might be 10% fat by weight, but what people need to do is monitor their caloric intake.
		How many calories are they taking in?
		And they need to reduce that.
unidentified		And even the leanest cuts of meat.
		Fat has a calorie content of 9 calories per gram of fat, whereas protein and carbohydrate are 4 calories per gram.
		And so if you've got 10% of your weight is in fat, then the most you can have is 21% of your calories coming from fat.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I would encourage people to get a lot of people.
unidentified		If you're going to look at those numbers, you ought to do the math first.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I would encourage people to, well, you're the one who's talking about the leanest cuts of meat being 10% fat, which I think is not possible.
unidentified		I didn't say the leanest cut.
unidentified		I said that the extra lean is 10% fat, and you can get meat that has all the fat trimmed off of it and has virtually no marboline in the meat whatsoever, which is what has become very popular today because of the limousine cattle that they're raising out there that don't put on a lot of fat the way the Herefords do and the Angus do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, caller, here's where Bruce goes over the line because even that kind of beef, he would be just as opposed to as whatever he really thinks is over the line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He would be opposed to both.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I would encourage people to read labels and read the medical literature.
		The only nutritionist whose program is covered by the insurance companies is Dr. Dean Ornish.
		He's helping people lose weight.
		He's helping people unclog their arteries.
		He's doing it with a low-fat vegetarian diet.
		He's one of two people who have ever done that.
		The other person also requires a low-fat vegetarian diet.
		You can certainly be an unhealthy vegetarian, and we don't advocate that, but it's much easier to be an unhealthy meat eater because no matter how much meat you eat, you're not going to get one gram of fiber.
		You're not going to get one gram of carbohydrates.
		Those are the things we need to keep our bodies in good working order.
		Even the leanest cuts of meat, calorie for calorie, and go check it out.
		Even the leanest cuts of meat, calorie for calorie, are roughly 30% fat and still laden with carbon.
unidentified		If you want some good, high-fiber food, go to McDonald's.
		McDonald's happens to be the very biggest customer of Weyerhauser because they buy sawdust from Weyerhauser.
		They put sawdust into their meat.
		They put sawdust into their buns and everything.
		Their milkshakes are made out of sawdust instead of ice cream.
		It may sound bad, but really all it is is fiber.
		And that fiber cleans out the bloodstream.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Love that blood.
unidentified		Cleans out your digestive system.
unidentified		It's good for you.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Larry, are you serious?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Do you really believe that McDonald's put sawdust in their food?
unidentified		I happen to know they do.
unidentified		Well, you know, whether they do or not, I want to ask you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on, sir.
		Hold on.
		You raise cattle, right?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you cruel to them?
unidentified		No, in fact, I'm much nicer to them than they are.
		I raise polled cattle.
		The reason, and they're naturally polled, it's a genetic thing.
		It's in the breeding.
		The reason I like polled cattle is because the cattle kill each other with their horns.
		Just because they get a wild hair up their butt, they get angry and they kill each other, goring each other to death.
		And if you've ever had to charge out there and wrestle a 1,400-pound cow down to the ground because she is killing her offspring, you know, just because she decided that right at that moment she didn't want to let it drink out of the pond.
		You sound like a truly humane steward, Larry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's nature, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He is describing a process in nature.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		He is describing somebody who's raising animals for food and is not being compassionate to them at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he was trying to say they're not particularly compassionate to each other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Compassion as we understand it and compassion as an animal might or might not understand it are two very different things.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, my experience of cows growing up in Oklahoma is that they're extremely docile, pleasant animals.
		And I used to cut across a field of cows oftentimes when we would be running cross-country.
		And I certainly never saw a cow express any excitement or attack another cow.
		I think that's quite unlikely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Bruce Friedrich.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, Amara.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air, yes.
		You'll have to yell at us, so you're not loud.
		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in Sacramento, California, talking from 650 KSTE.
		Right.
		Let's just say for discussion's sake that PETA laws were on the books.
		What would be the punishment for your first, second, and third offense for eating meat?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's an excellent question.
		Let's say that PETA had its absolute way, that PETA was the food czar of America, and that PETA constructed laws exactly the way PETA wanted them.
		What would be the punishment for the first, second, and third violations with reference to eating meat?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		My gracious.
		In PETA's ideal world, it's a moral and compassionate society where people are merciful and people are kind to animals.
		People aren't violating the laws in people's ideals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the ideal world, PETA would have laws nevertheless, because it is not truly an ideal world, right?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there'd have to be laws and PETA would make them.
		And there would be violations for eating meat in PETA's world old laws.
		So what would those be?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		A million people a year are turning vegetarian.
		It's a very exciting statistic.
		And it is the best diet for health, environment, and certainly healthy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many vegetarians die every year?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure, but the net total, the net gain is about a million a year.
		And according to the National Restaurant Association, 20% of college students identify themselves as vegetarians.
		And, you know, the point you make is certainly legitimate.
		Some of them probably are eating some meat.
		But it's still very exciting.
		And the vegetarian world is coming.
		And it's coming voluntarily because people are realizing that they don't have to eat meat.
		They'll be healthier without it.
		It's the only environmentally sound choice.
		It's also the only choice that gives even a mild nod to animal welfare.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but for somebody who said a little while ago that he didn't care if they burned down every McDonald's, which is arson, arson, arson times gazillions.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		No, I said I wouldn't blame people for doing that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whatever it is you said.
		For you to say that and then to go out on that limb and refuse to go out on a limb where PETA had its way and made the laws regarding the eating of meat, that's, come on.
		Well, come out on that limb.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Sorry, but we're so far from that.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		And in our ideal world, people aren't violating that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're pretty far from burning down restaurants.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		are treating animals respectfully and since people are not presently treating animals respectfully since anything goes The driver told us it was the fourth accident in two weeks.
		This was last year, just before Thanksgiving, because the trucks were so overloaded for Thanksgiving.
		They had 1,400 turkeys on the back of this transport truck.
		The truck turned over, and it took them more than 12 hours to reload the remaining, about 600 of the animals died.
		About 600 of the animals they just picked up, loaded right back onto the truck and drove them through the noon heat to the slaughterhouse, six more hours to the slaughterhouse, every single one of those animals with broken bones.
		And you know there wasn't a law to prevent that?
		It seems to me the laws need revision.
unidentified		Well, I don't I agree with you.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		And until the laws are revised, until the laws are revised, people should not be supporting economically.
		Every time you sit down to eat, if you're eating meat, you are supporting cruelty to animals.
		If you wouldn't do it to a dog or a cat, you should ask them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if they can do it for another person, the problem here, Bruce, is that even in that impossible, perfect world where the laws were the way you wanted them, you still wouldn't want people eating meat.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we wouldn't want people eating other human beings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We wouldn't want people eating animals.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Animals are not a means to an end any more than other human beings are a means to an end.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Bruce Friedrich.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East to the Rockies.
		Going on.
		Hello.
		Yes, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yes, hi.
		All right.
		This is David from Philadelphia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, David.
unidentified		Hi.
		I have a couple of points to bring up.
		I actually have someone who has been a vegetarian for many years and actually engaged in a vegan diet for several years.
		Yes.
		And you grew puny and weak, right?
		Not really, but I was fairly meticulous about it in terms of nutrition and making sure I got my requirements.
		But what I will say is that there's an interesting body of research that has to do with the blood typing of the human being.
		And excuse me, I'm getting nervous there for a second.
		And what that body of research says, and that's by Dr. Peter Diadamo, and that body of research says that as they looked at blood types, they found out that type O's were generally predisposed to meat eating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm a type O, by the way.
unidentified		Right.
		And myself as well.
		And type A's were really, their best diet was a vegetarian diet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, the O's are saying, oh, but that's good.
		That meat is good.
		And the A's, well, I'll leave that to your imagination.
unidentified		And because those people come from primarily an agricultural culture.
		And type B's are nomadic, so they really have more of a fruit and nut and some meat type of diet.
		So that is kind of an interesting thing.
		I think this is an incredible subject.
		We can need to keep exploring it.
		But I have started to incorporate some meat in my diet.
		But what I do do is to use antibiotic and hormone-free, free-range organic meat.
		And the humane issue is a big issue to me.
		And I think that in that regard, I agree with Bruce completely.
		But I think that there's some other aspects that as we go through this continued understanding of what this all means, that we need to try to encourage the meat growers to use I think it's appalling, obviously we all feel that way, but we need to encourage the humanity aspect and the organic and the antibiotic and stereotypes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I couldn't agree more.
		I mean that's just a no-brainer to me.
		I agree with Bruce that that aspect should definitely be emphasized, that we should try and change the laws and make things better for the animals.
		We shouldn't be cruel.
		We should take every step we can to be humane.
		But take away my hamburger and you'll have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, David raises, I think, a couple of very interesting points.
		And I'm going to start with the second one and encourage people, if you're going to absolutely eat meat, please have a bit of integrity about it.
		Visit the farm where the animals are raised and visit the slaughterhouse.
		And if you can't do that, if you can't visit the farm, if you can't visit the slaughterhouse, I think you should be very circumspect about where these animals are coming from.
		Because I've been to about a dozen of these so-called free-range places and the animals aren't treated any better because there aren't any government regulations about what free-range means.
		So that's one thing.
		And free-range animals end up generally in the exact same slaughterhouses as their non-free-range counterparts.
		10 to 20% of them are skinned alive and dismembered while they're still fully conscious.
		It's an awful reality.
		And people who want more information on that, there's a book called Slaughterhouse that I can't recommend more highly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably will just absolutely terrorize you, I'm sure.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a gruesome book, and it's based on affidavits from slaughterhouse workers about the huge proportion of animals that are skinned while they're fully conscious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, and if you read what's in hot dogs, it'll make you sick, but hot dogs are great.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, it seems to me we should try to get what we say to be in line with how we actually live our lives.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		We should try to have some correlation between our rhetoric and our reality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm with you part of the way, partner.
		Listen, it's been a super pleasure having you on the program.
		Let's give out your number again because I know a lot of people will call us.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Our toll-free vegetarian hotline is 888-VEGFOOD, 888-8343663.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		People can also visit us on the web at meatstinks.com, www.meatstinks.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who thought that one up?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		It's something PETA's been using for quite a while.
		We have MeatStinks literature and also MeatStinks posters, so it made sense to grab that for all rotten vegetables, too.
		Well, the MeatStinks website, it says MeatStinks for the Earth, for the animals, and for you.
		And it goes into the health, environmental, and, of course, the animal nightmare consequences of meat eating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's been interesting having you on the air, Bruce.
		And I'll have you on again because you're so interesting and radical.
		And you need to be ready for the reason.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		It's been my pleasure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You need reforming.
		How about a little of that Kobe beef?
		I mean, I might send you some of that Kobe beef.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		I think I'll pass.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Although, anytime you want to drop in on us, we'd be happy to serve you a wonderful vegan meal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which would probably consist of green, stringy things.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		No, we would make sure that it was, because of this conversation, we would make sure that you liked it.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		We would make sure that many meat eaters cannot tell the difference.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen, if I was willing to try whatever it is you would foist off on me as something I should be eating, then why wouldn't you try my Kobe beef, which had been massaged?
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's not the equation, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you're willing to cut that deal, then we'll both give it a shot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bruce, thanks.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Hey, it's my pleasure.
bruce friedrich ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
		That's it for tonight, folks.
		We're out of time.
		Tomorrow night, Richard C. Hoagland is here.
		And then the following night, it's going to be Y2K and Gary North, and it's been a while.

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