Bruce Friedrich, PETA’s Vegetarian Campaign Coordinator, argues that factory farming—where pigs are castrated without painkillers and slaughtered alive—exemplifies speciesism akin to historical racial/gender oppression, citing Alice Walker’s analogy. He highlights studies like Dr. Dean Ornish’s low-fat veggie diet reversing heart disease in patients (cholesterol: 200 for meat eaters vs. 123 for vegans) and environmental waste, with 70-80% of U.S. grains feeding animals yielding just one calorie per 20 invested. Art Bell counters with taste skepticism, personal anecdotes of unhealthy vegetarians, and support for ethically raised meat like Kobe beef, though both agree on opposing animal cruelty—leaving listeners to weigh ethics over dietary dogma. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning, as the case may be, and welcome to another edition of Whatever It Is We Do in the middle of the night from the Sahitan and Hawaiian Islands chain southwest eastwards of the Caribbean and the West Virgin Islands,
California, and St. Thomas, south into South America, north, all the way to the Pole, and worldwide on the internet, ThanksgivingBroadcast.com and the Intel Corporation for what is known as G2, which means you can go to my website,
download the G2 player free of charge, switch into my computer, then come back to my website and click on streaming video, and you will see me doing the show live.
Now, we did begin this as an experimental thing, and it's really already gone past its experimental time, and we may or may not keep doing it very much longer.
The top story, of course, the earthquake in Turkey, which has now killed more than 2,000 people.
It was 7.8 on the Richter scale.
And anytime you get up toward an 8 earthquake, you can be pretty sure that a lot of buildings are going to come down and a lot of people are going to die inside the buildings.
And that, of course, is what has occurred.
A very, very strong earthquake, followed, by the way, by about a 5.0 in the Bay Area.
And I guess it did sway office buildings in San Francisco, rattled homes about 50 miles south in San Jose.
And they occur at disparate parts of the world as well.
The Cassini probe should have come as close to Earth as it is going to come at about 8.28 here in the West, 1128 in the East, and should now be on its way on out.
And thank God it went all right.
But NASA officials did say there was a 1 in 1.2 million chance of an accidental re-entry.
And the only problem that I have with that and that Dr. Kaku and others had with it was that occasionally somebody hits the jackpot.
Oh, by the way, Gary North is coming up on Thursday night.
I know a lot of you have been waiting for that.
And there's quite a bit of Y2K news to give to you.
Now, the Global Positioning System Receivers, or GPS receivers, may begin to have a real big problem.
Very shortly now.
As a matter of fact, I think the 21st of, no, make that the 22nd of August.
The end-of-the-week rollover is going to cause some problems on this particular one.
And though the satellites themselves are okay and the ground tracking stations are going to be okay, an awful lot of consumer GPS receivers are not going to be okay.
And in cases where safety is an issue, any of you out there who are using GPS receivers, you know, for safety reasons, are going to want to pay particular attention to this.
This is not a joke, and a lot of receivers are simply going to give you inaccurate information.
And if you're using it for navigation, you're in trouble.
So you had better be sure that you have a GPS receiver that will continue to be okay.
From the Associated Press San Jose, California, only Iowa, Nebraska, and North Dakota have completely tested their computer systems and are ready, they say, to face the new year without fear of potentially dangerous year 2000 glitches.
Now, think about that a little bit, folks.
Think about that.
Of all the states in the Union, only Iowa, Nebraska, and North Dakota are set.
The rest of the states now have 139 days to guarantee reliability of their systems that run everything from law enforcement to utilities and traffic lights, you name it.
And of course, right now, as we well know, nobody really can predict what might or might not occur when that magic gong goes off.
And of course, by the way, I'm going to be here on New Year's Eve.
I will be here on New Year's Eve, beginning the broadcast about two hours early just because I want to be here.
I think that it's a Friday night.
Somebody might correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's a Friday night, Saturday morning.
So I'm going to make arrangements to be here.
Now, from Variety Magazine, NBC apparently, looking to take advantage of the Millennium Madness, is working on its own Y2K, a disaster motion picture that imagines near-apocalyptic results brought about by the much-hyped computer bug.
The Thriller stars Ken Olin from LA Doctors as a techie trying to save the U.S. from disasters caused by computer failures as 1999 becomes 2000.
The picture is the only announced broadcast project to date capitalizing on concerns over the Y2K bug which machines interpret the date to 1100 as January 1st, 1900.
So only one movie.
Gary North here, Thursday night.
The Associated Press, a National Hippist Ice Center, I didn't know we had a National Ice Center, but we do, I guess, issued a warning Tuesday that an iceberg just about the size, they say, of the state of Rhode Island threatens shipping now in the ocean between South America and the Antarctic.
The iceberg named, they named the big ones I guess, H, make that Beasin boy 10A.
They ought to give them real names.
Harry.
Harry the iceberg.
Measures 24 by 48 miles.
Wow.
And is in the shipping lanes now in the vicinity of latitude 58 degrees west, 36 minutes south, longitude 57 degrees west.
By the way, it's drifting southeast.
Some 7 to 9 miles per day.
That's quite fast.
Very, very interesting.
And here is a release from the Goddard Space Flight Center that somehow has not been reported in the regular media, and I don't know why.
But NASA has a balloon, and I mean a big balloon, that they're putting into the upper atmosphere.
This is a 60-story high balloon, which is going to go directly to the fringes of the Earth's upper atmosphere to collect, are you ready for this, particles of some of the rarest stuff in the universe, antimatter, and just possibly evidence the entire anti-galaxies or that entire anti-galaxies exist.
Check it out.
Now, why is CNN not running a story on this?
NASA's going to put a 60-story high balloon, as high as a balloon can go, I guess, in our atmosphere, to go up there and get antimatter.
And I've got to have, you know, I've got the website where the release is.
In fact, as a matter of fact, Donald Savage, who I once had on the show from NASA, is the person who did the release in Washington, D.C. Now, what happens if they manage to get antimatter and bring it back?
I don't know.
I don't think they know either.
But they're saying here that, in fact, it really could mean anti-galaxies exist.
Now, can you wrap your mind around that one, an anti-galaxy?
Absolutely incredible.
All right, we'll get to more in a moment.
We're going to have open lines.
And by the way, at the top of the hour for a while, we're going to have a representative.
Do you remember that phone call?
A lot of you will not, because it was the final phone call that we had on a show, I don't know, a couple of weeks ago, or was it even less?
Last week, maybe.
And it was a lady.
And the lady and I really, really, really went around and around about vegetarianism.
And she was talking to me about meat and how terrible it was to eat meat.
And I was telling her, well, vegetables scream when you bite into them.
unidentified
Don't you feel guilty when you bite into that carrot?
And the scream, silent, albeit to our ears, shrieks through the house as your carrot wrists in agony, a hard twitching death as you sink your teeth into its orange body.
Anyway, representative from PETA faxed me and said their phones went nuts the next day.
People for the ethical treatment of animals, PETA.
And so, Bruce Friedrich, who we have had on before, once before actually, he was in a debate at that time, and tonight he's going to be in a kind of a debate too with me, I guess.
He's going to come on the air and it's going to be kind of fun.
They are, of course, a very controversial activist organization.
And I want to talk to them.
I want to talk to Bruce myself.
And so we're going to do a little bit of that at the top of the hour.
unidentified
Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider.
You'll still get all the same great features for the same whole price.
The package includes podcasting, which automatically downloads shows for you, and the iPhone app.
You'll also get an amazing download library of three full years of shows.
That's over a thousand shows for you to collect and enjoy.
If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
Visit CoasterCoastAM.com to sign up.
Looking for the truth?
You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
When you look at what's going on around this planet, it's almost as if someone has got a playbook to try to control all these countries all of a sudden.
I've always said that not everything is a conspiracy, but a lot of it is.
You know, when you start looking into things, there's only certain set of conclusions you can reach.
And unfortunately, this is one of them.
You know, it's very, very hard not to see things like that when you start looking at things in a larger picture.
Coast of Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for The iPhone and Android platforms.
Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
And if you're a Coast Insider, you'll have our great subscriber features right on your phone, including the ability to listen to live programs and screen previous shows.
No special app is necessary to enjoy our new mobile site.
Simply visit CoastToCoastAM.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
Looking for the truth?
You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
Governments won't do that.
And the reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
They think that they'll lose control of us if we know.
If you actually truly believe that we were being visited by extraterrestrials and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that government throws out all the time?
Absolutely not.
You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
So the bottom line is government will never, ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
ScreenLink, the audio subscription service of Coastal Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider.
You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price, just 15 cents a day when you sign up for one year.
The package includes Podcasting, which offers the convenience of having shows downloaded automatically to your computer or MP3Player, and the iPhone app with live and on-demand programs.
You'll also get an amazing download library of three full years of shows.
Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure.
Plus, you'll get screened and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bell, Sunware In Time shows, and two weekly classics.
And as a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Norrie and special guests.
If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up today.
Now we take you back to the night of August 17, 1999, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
I've got a little, going into the break here at the bottom of the hour, I want you to listen very carefully to this song and tell me who it is and whether you've heard it before.
It's one of those songs that's driving me absolutely out of my mind.
unidentified
See if you've heard this.
Falling in love was the last thing I had on my mind.
Who is this, folks?
Holding you with the warmth that I thought I could never find.
It's been going through my mind all weekend long.
You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight's an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 17th, 1999.
I took everyone else in a question that keeps going through my mind.
Hey, baby, you're a tourist.
It's a time to wake.
Falling in love to be yours today.
I I've seen visions of someone like you in my life.
A love that's strong, reaching out, holding me through the dark sky.
Just trying to lie.
I'll stay by your side.
I don't want to cry.
I just can't find the enemy.
for my life.
I'll be lightning in your way.
I I see you every day and by the end of the day.
Lonely day, lonely night Where would I be without my woman?
Lonely day, lonely night Where would I be without my woman?
Lonely day, lonely night Where would I be without my woman?
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coasted Coast AM from August 17th, 1999.
I'll tell you, everybody, I've really been on a music kick lately.
I've not heard it before, and it infected me like a virus, and I've been listening to it all weekend long.
unidentified
I have songs do that to me all the time, unfortunately.
Also, I was telling you, you know, I was talking about changes in the earth and the weather and things like that.
Oh, yes.
When you talk about the ozone and the problems with it, I think the earth is actually, with these storms, these strong storms we've seen, I think the earth is actually trying to heal itself.
Okay, chaff is something that airplanes drop to foil missile radars and that sort of thing.
You know, it's like little tiny pieces of aluminum or metal, millions of them that they drop.
And they're actually suggesting that the dropping of this chaff is providing a conduit for electricity from the air to the ground that is preventing as much lightning as we used to have.
unidentified
Well, that doesn't shock me if the government's screwing something else up.
You know about the new graphite bomb, the one they dropped on in Last Loufracas we had to short out the electrical system without permanently damaging it.
Colonel Alexander called and talked quite a bit about that during his last visit.
Same effect, except that with chaff, it literally extends from relatively high in the atmosphere to the ground, providing a line of conductivity.
Interesting.
unidentified
*Squeak*
Now we take you back to the night of August 17th, 1999.
I trust that PPFA is back on the air as annoyingly normal, right?
unidentified
Well, yeah, actually absolutely normal in the sense that we got major concessions from the board so that we were not only reinstalled in our building and are back on the air, but the gag rule was lifted.
So we are now able to continue to dispense the truth about what's going on.
I know they're a pretty wild radio station, and they're like me.
You know, you never know what's going to happen, and it might be something unpredictable and weird.
unidentified
Well, we've also been able to be truthful about what's going on between the radio station and the board itself, and that was what I was actually referring to.
You know how you associate songs with certain as a matter of fact, it's so serious for me that when I hear a certain song, I actually see a picture in my mind.
unidentified
Yeah.
Yeah, I can refeel emotions and feelings that I had.
I mean, even when you were playing that song, that really took me back because that song haunted me when it was out.
I've been playing it all weekend long, again and again and again.
unidentified
Yeah, I knew right away as soon as you said it.
In fact, when you played that other song, your bumper song, when you played it the first time and you only played it for about one second, I recognized it as one of the songs that you play.
This is a little hard to put into words, but has anybody on your show, speaking from a metaphysical standpoint, talked about the fact that some things of a phenomenal nature, nature have only a relative reality some things of a phenomenal nature only have a relative reality what do you mean by that okay what what I'm saying is that well for example there was a book out called The Holographic Universe.
I would have loved for you to have interviewed the author, but unfortunately he has died.
Well that doesn't rule out an interview on what he talks about in that book, and I've heard this from other sources too, is the fact that a lot of so-called reality is a holographic manifestation of the mass consciousness.
For example, when there are visions of the Virgin Mary on walls of buildings or something, that's a phenomenon that results from a number of people maybe in the area that believe in that sort of thing, and together they create this phenomenon.
And then after a while, when the interest starts to wane, the image starts to fade.
Although, with my program and the millions of listeners that I have, it could be that if we did another grand experiment, we could cause one to land on the South Lawn.
unidentified
But then you would really want to second-guess yourself because you're not really sure that you want to do that.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 17th, 1999.
If you love her, then you must send her somewhere where she's never been before.
Morning raises and morning gazes get you where you want to go.
Something can you won't win.
You want to love me.
You want to know.
We'll hold it up by now.
Thought that change are one winner.
From extinction.
We'll rock the bad baby in the tree top.
When the wind blows, the bread will rock.
We'll rock the bad baby in the tree top.
When the wind blows.
Well, Jack be nimble, Jack be quick.
Jack jumps over the candlestick.
He jumps so high up above, he landed in the cradle of love.
Well, rock the bad baby in the tree top.
When the wind blows, the bread will rock.
Oh, rock the bad baby in the tree top.
When the wind blows.
Oh, no.
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
High diddle diddle, the cat had a fiddle, the cow jumped over the moon And on her way down she met a turtle dove that let's go rocking in the cradle of love Well rock goodbye baby in the treetop When the wind blows Free Beer Radio Networks presents Art Bell somewhere in time tonight's
When the wind blows, it'll start going through your head again and again and again and again, like a virus.
Well, it was about a week ago, I guess or so, and I had this call from this lady, and it was the end of the program, so a lot of you out there will not have heard it.
She was a veggie Tarian.
And she was very enthusiastic.
Although, I guess the PETA people thought that she didn't deliver the message quite the way they would have had her deliver it.
They got a whole bunch of calls, and so I'm going to just profane have Bruce Friedrich on here in a minute.
I'm behind in commercials because I got so interested in my music, I'm behind.
And so I'm going to have to catch up.
Bruce Friedrich is the spokesperson for PETA, which is the organization known as People Eating Tasty Animals.
And so we're going to talk about steaks and burgers and hot dogs and spam.
Oh, we're going to talk about all kinds of vegetables.
We're going to talk about all of this for a little while, anyway.
And Bruce was with us one time before, and he was on the air for four hours debating, you will recall, a kind of a mountain man that we had on at the time.
So I'll tell you more about Bruce and Peter, and we'll get them on the air here in a moment.
unidentified
Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider.
You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price.
The package includes podcasting, which automatically downloads shows for you, and the iPhone app.
You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows.
That's over a thousand shows for you to collect and enjoy.
If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up.
Looking for the truth?
You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by a mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
Governments won't do that.
The reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
They think that they'll lose control of us if we know.
If you actually truly believed that we were being visited by extraterrestrials and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that government throws out all the time?
Absolutely not.
You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
So the bottom line is government will never, ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
Coast of Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
And if you're a Coast Insider, you'll have our great subscriber features right on your phone, including the ability to listen to live programs and stream previous shows.
No special app is necessary to enjoy our new mobile site.
Simply visit CoastToCoastAM.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
Looking for the truth?
You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
When you look at what's going on around this planet, it's almost as if someone has got a playbook to try to control all these countries all of a sudden.
I've always said that not everything is a conspiracy, but a lot of it is.
You know, when you start looking into things, there's only certain set of conclusions you can reach.
And unfortunately, this is one of them.
You know, it's very, very hard not to see things like that when you start looking at things in a larger picture.
ScreenLink, the audio subscription service of Coastal Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider.
You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price, just 15 cents a day when you sign up for one year.
The package includes Podcasting, which offers the convenience of having shows downloaded automatically to your computer or MP3Player, and the iPhone app with live and on-demand programs.
You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows.
Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure.
Plus, you'll get streamed and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bell, Summer In Time shows, and two weekly classics.
And as a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Norrie and special guests.
If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up today.
Now we take you back to the night of August 17, 1999, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
As Vegetarian Campaign Coordinator and general spokesperson for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, PETA, the largest animal rights organization in the whole world, Bruce Friedrich can be found in schools, universities, civic clubs speaking about animal liberation and vegetarianism.
Bruce has debated animal experimenters, furriers, meat trade officials on various local and national radio programs.
His work on behalf of vegetarianism and animal rights has made headlines across the country, including the Wall Street Journal, L.A. Times, New York Times, Washington Post, USA Today, so forth and so on.
Now, before coming to PETA in 1996, Bruce spent more than six years working in a shelter for homeless families and soup kitchens in inner-city Washington, D.C. Bruce continues to coordinate PETA's monthly human outreach efforts in the local community.
Bruce graduated Phi Beta Kappa from Grinnell College in Iowa with majors in English and economics, minors in religious studies.
He received numerous awards, including the Gilbert Award for original research in the field of economics.
Bruce believes, as author and civil rights activist Alice Walker said, quote, the animals of the world were not made for humans any more than black people were made for white or women created for men.
This quote, Alice Walker's quote, the animals of the world were not made for humans Any more than black people were made for white or women created for men?
Yeah, basically she's summarizing the concept of speciesism.
And what speciesism says is that if the factor you're determining is pain, in other words, somebody's right to be free from pain or free from exploitation at the hands of others, the only relevant factor is that being's capacity to feel pain.
Well, that's certainly one interpretation, I suppose, and maybe the Southern Baptists would agree with you, but I think that you'd find that most women and certainly all feminists would give you quite a rhetorical battle.
Yeah, and the animal rights argument then would extend that also to animals, and would say that since animals have the same capacity for suffering regardless of species, in other words, at the very least, mammals, birds, and fishes, we know that biologically and physiologically we all experience pain in the same way.
We consequently all have a right not to experience that at the hands of others.
Yeah, we certainly think that the problem should be stopped at its source, and we might want to get into the question of animal rights as opposed to animal welfare.
Well, actually, Alice Walker wrote this introduction to a book called The Dreaded Comparison by a woman named Marjorie Spiegel.
And what Ms. Spiegel is doing in her book is she is comparing the status of African Americans in the early 19th century, well really the 16th through 19th centuries in the United States, to the status of animals that we raise for food and for experimentation, for entertainment, etc.
Well, I mean, again, I think if you go back to the stewardship concept and their helpmates for one another, obviously that would be the right relationship.
And certainly, you know, any kind of inclusivity, when you're talking about inclusivity according to species or you're talking about inclusivity according to race or gender, obviously the ideal relationship is all of us are in this thing called life together.
And all of us should be working toward, we feel, a more compassionate and a more just society where no one is eating another being or experimenting on or holding in captivity to use for human amusement as things like circuses.
And I think with domestic animals, not only is it in the best interest of the parties involved, but there's also the factor that I think people who have companion animals naturally understand that animals, and they hopefully can extend this to cows and pigs and chickens and primates and other animals, animals have a capacity for pain, a capacity for joy, for love.
Animals are interesting creatures in their own right.
They are.
And what we say then is if you wouldn't cause your dog or your cat to suffer this unbearable pain, and, you know, make no mistake about it, the animals on these farms, they lead short, miserable, violent, bloody lives, and they die incredibly bloody violent.
I know, you know, I know where you're going with all this, and I've heard all this, and I know you can draw some horror stories that will really make us wretch, but the fact of the matter is that if that aspect were eliminated, if the small pens, what you call terrible conditions, and all the rest of it were eliminated, and these pigs lived really a pig's life, I mean just the best pig life you could imagine, you still would be against the painless killing of those animals for food, right?
Certainly that's true, although I must say that in the short term, the vast majority of our budget goes toward simply improving the conditions that these animals lead.
Well, for example, there are no federal laws to protect these animals on factory farms, so almost 100% of pigs are genetically bred, so that most of them are lame.
They're castrated without painkillers.
They have their teeth ripped out of their heads without painkillers.
They're kept on slatted metal floors, never able to lead a pig's life.
And at the slaughterhouse, a huge proportion of them are dismembered and skinned alive.
So even for people who give one whit about animal welfare, if you care at all, imagine your cat or your dog in this kind of situation and ask yourself how you can justify paying people to torment and torture animals for you.
Well, it's certainly possible to be an unhealthful vegetarian, but even mainstream organizations like the American Dietetic Association, the Heart Association, the Cancer Society, even the USDA recommends vegetarian diets as a very good way to stave off some of the biggest killers in this country.
And in fact, the biggest killer in this country is heart disease.
It kills as many people as everything else combined.
50% of people die of heart disease.
There are two physicians in human history who have unclogged people's arteries and made them heart attack proof.
Dr. Dean Ornish on the West Coast, and he wrote a blockbuster best-selling book.
He also found that people lost an average of more than 20 pounds.
And he put people on a low-fat vegetarian diet.
Got their cholesterol levels down below 150, unclogged their arteries, which had been previously thought to be impossible, and he did it on a veggie diet.
The veggie diet not only didn't kill them, but these were people who had had heart attacks previously, were at very high risk for dropping over dead any moment, and these were people who were made absolutely immune to heart disease by getting their cholesterol levels down below 150.
The second one, the American Journal of Cardiology, very established, well-respected journal, a researcher from the Cleveland Clinic, the most well-respected of all of the heart clinics in the country, perhaps in the world, Dr. Ethelstein, he's just published research.
He took 18 people who had had a total of an average of three heart attacks each in the previous eight years.
MeatStinks.com is a link you'll find on my website right now, along with Bruce's name.
We've got a new section of the website, actually, and there's a couple of things, actually several you should pay attention to on the website.
One is the new area we have for tonight's show, which in this particular case has a very, very interesting photograph that you've really got to see.
It's a photograph taken, I believe, in the Andes of the side of a mountain and what would appear to be a dimensional, it would also say a dimensional portal.
There is an entire website associated with it.
You can read about it.
You can look at it, you can say, what I'm sure a lot of you pixel people are going to say, "All obvious lens flare." But it really is not an obvious lens flare.
Number two, the photograph of the model is extremely clear.
So it just might be what it represents.
It ought to be.
And that is an apparent dimensional portal.
You want to see it player again.
all the information on PETA and Bruce Friedrich, who is my guest.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 17, 1999.
Well, the lady who called me was kind of an interesting case in point because she made an argument that, you know, we were talking about vegetables versus meat from animals and all the rest of it.
Right.
And I did mention to her that now very famous scientific experiment in which lettuce was seen to react to its brethren cut in half.
And so if vegetables can react in a seemingly emotional way to another vegetable being cut, then you've got to ask questions about the advocacy of vegetables.
Well, there are a variety of, I think, fairly cogent responses.
The first one is that you can't find a reputable physiologist or a reputable biologist who will argue that plants feel pain.
They don't have any of the things required for pain.
Pain receptors, central nervous systems, brains, which all of the animals share.
Plants don't have those things.
They don't have any need to feel pain.
And again, the reason, according to biologists and physiologists, we're able to move is so we can escape pain.
They don't have that need.
But you know, the reason I went vegetarian more than 12 years ago was for environmental reasons.
The fact is you have to feed 20 calories to an animal to get one calorie back out of the animal.
So leaving aside all of the water pollution and water use and topsoil depletion, the reality is we feed more than 80% of the grains we grow in this country.
We feed them to animals and then we eat the animals.
So if our concern is actually for the suffering of these plants, assuming we have to eat something, we should still eat the plants directly.
Now, for example, the vegetable from absolute hell, as far as I'm concerned, is the lima bean.
When I was a child, I used to eat lima beans one at a time like aspirins, downing them with a glass of milk so I could get my dessert because it's the only way my mom would give me dessert to finish everything on the table.
And the choice was, Art, you can have five more years of life if you stop eating meat and eat nothing but vegetables from now until the day you do die, which will be five years later than you otherwise would have.
Dr. Dean Ornish, again, the foremost nutritionist in the world, the man who first unclogged people's arteries, it's now been done by another fellow also using a vegetarian diet.
The point he makes is not only do you die earlier from heart disease, but your life is miserable as you die.
Well, no, but what I'm telling you is that on the road to death, vegetarians are more vital.
Because in the short term, meat eaters tend to be heavier and more lethargic, and in the long term, they clog up their arteries and they suffer from cancer at a 40% greater rate.
Well but Art, at least in the short term, I think it would make sense for you to engage in a boycott until you can visit the slaughterhouses and see the animals humanely killed.
Until you can visit the farms and find that animals, and again, cows, they have the horns ripped out of their heads without painkillers.
They're castrated without painkillers.
Any of them have third-degree burns inflicted.
This is a violent reality.
They're transported to the slaughterhouse through all manner of weather extremes.
And in the big cow states like Texas and Oklahoma, it's very hot.
Many of these animals die during the transportation in the hotter months or they freeze to death in places like Canada during the colder months.
This is what we're paying people to do to animals.
They have less strokes that are related to blood flow.
And again, I think it's about 60% of stroke is related to clogged arteries.
In other words, clogged blood flow to the brain.
And again, vegetarians, or at least complete vegetarians, have very low cholesterol levels.
Their arteries don't clog.
And there are these two researchers, Dr. Ethelstein at the Cleveland Clinic and Dr. Ornish out on the West Coast, who are actually unclogging people's arteries with a low-fat vegetarian diet.
And again, on Ornish's program, people lost an average of more than 20 pounds in the first year.
And they keep the weight off.
And both Ethelstein and Ornish argue that the reason they keep the weight off and the reason that they stick to the diet is because their lifestyle improves so much.
A million people are turning vegetarian every year, and it's a diet adhered to by Shania Twain, Michael Eisner, CEO of Disney, Pamela Anderson-Lee, Michael Milken, the junk bond king, Chelsea Clinton, Steve Jobs, one of the founders of Apple, Kim Basinger, Paul McCartney, Alanis Morissette.
The list goes on and on and on, and these are not emaciated people.
These are extremely healthy, vital people.
And hey, for people who don't have web access, do let me toss out our toll-free vegetarian hotline, and we'll send people the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine PAC.
The Boca Burger is something made by Boca Burger Company, surprise.
And it's gotten a lot of press recently because Bob Arnott, who wrote the Breast Cancer Prevention Diet, which is the blockbuster bestseller, he's, I think, NBC's scientific or medical advisor, he's recommending Boca Burgers.
But what you're getting is you're getting fiber, you're getting a low-fat, zero-cholesterol, high-fiber, high-complex carbohydrate alternative that tastes just as good.
Why on earth would you want to pay people to harm animals, harm the environment, and also get this heavy dose of saturated fat and cholesterol?
And again, meat has no fiber and no carbohydrates at all.
So it has to do with the quality of life, not just the length of life.
What good would it do to live to be 102 years old if for 40 years of that time you are going to be in abject misery because you're eating nothing but green slush?
Well, let's distill it to where many men, at least, live their lives.
When Dean Ornish, again, the West Coast physician, and again, his program is covered by all of the major medical insurance companies.
It's covered by Medicare.
It's covered by Medicaid.
It's the only nutritional program covered by the insurance companies.
And the reason for that is he's unclogging people's arteries.
That's what kills more than half of people in this country.
When he was asked on politically incorrect, basically the same points that you're making by one of the guests there, he said, well, he said, I'll tell you, another side effect that we found on our diet is that men who were impotent restored their sexual function.
And it certainly is the case that people want to be able to have erectile function late into life.
But a quarter of men are impotent by the time they're 60 years old.
Half of men report having some problems by the time they're 40.
And more than 70% of this is related to clogged arteries.
What Ornish has found is that he is unclogging people's arteries and he's also restoring sexual function, which for a lot of people is very, very integrally tied to their quality of life.
You'll see very few vegetarians sitting on the couch, you know, having to unbuckle their pants and sort of sit there lethargically staring at the television because their meal has just weighed them down.
And, you know, all of the things that come with obesity.
Well, we're all going to die, but we don't have to die so miserably.
And, you know, chickens, they don't even live two months anymore.
They've been genetically bred so that more than 90% of them, more than 9 out of 10 chickens, by the time they're two months old and are hanging upside down, 90% of them have crippling leg deformities because we've genetically bred them so that they're these weird superanimals.
Their upper bodies grow, but their legs don't keep up.
And the reason we have to slaughter them when they're two months old is that they would otherwise all die of heart attacks because they grow so quickly that their hearts and their lungs can't keep up with their bulk.
This is a violent reality.
We sear their beaks off with a hot blade so that many of them starve to death because eating becomes so painful.
From life to death, I mean from birth to death for all of these animals, is absolutely unmitigated suffering.
But I am still very much in favor of raising animals in a proper, reasonable, stewardship type of way, and then slaughtering them so we can have burgers and steaks and sausage.
My argument would run something along the lines of the concept of democracy, which is what this country is founded on, the concept of a social contract.
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I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by a mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
Governments won't do that.
And the reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
They think that they'll lose control of us if we know.
If you actually truly believe that we were being visited by extraterrestrials and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that government throws out all the time?
Absolutely not.
You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
So the bottom line is government will never, ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
Now we take you back to the night of August 17th, 1999.
Vegetarian diet won't cut risk of heart disease is the headline.
Claims by vegetarians that their diet is healthier than that of meat eaters are dismissed in a study which shows, listen now, Bruce, no difference in the level of heart disease.
It is a study of more than 11,000 people over 13 years.
The results show the difference in heart disease levels between meat eaters and vegetarians is statistically insignificant.
Even the American Heart Association, certainly not a radical organization by any stretch of the imagination, dismisses that and says that a vegetarian diet is excellent in terms of preventing heart disease.
You can be an unhealthy vegetarian just like you can be an unhealthy meat eater, certainly.
But again, there are two people in human history who have ever reversed heart disease.
They've both done it with a low-fat, vegan, actually completely vegetarian diet.
And you know, the average vegan cholesterol is 123.
I haven't met anybody on a complete vegetarian diet who has a cholesterol level above 140.
Why not just vegetarians or vegans or well, this guy, it's because the fellow who coined the term back in the 1940s, he decided to found the Royal Vegan Society, and that's what he called it.
And what he said is it's got the beginning and the end of vegetarian.
It takes vegetarianism to its logical extension.
From a cruelty standpoint, there's nothing worse than eggs.
See, but that goes back to my contention that every time we sit down to eat, we're making a choice.
Misery or mercy, life or death.
Now, physiologically, human beings aren't intended to be eating animals.
Every single carnivore shares about a dozen traits we don't share, including ten times the level of hydrochloric acid in their stomach so they can break down decomposing corpses.
I think the state food in Oklahoma is the chicken-fried steak.
And I ate an awful lot of those as I was growing up.
And you know, back to the physiological.
By the way, I also ran cross-country and played football in high school, and I found that my cross-country time, I'm kind of a bulky guy, so my cross-country time has never been that good.
But in the course of about two months, when I went completely vegetarian, my cross-country time dropped from usually an average of about 45 minutes to an average of about 40 minutes.
They produce 230 times as much excrement as the entire human population.
They don't have waste treatment systems.
We feed, as I said earlier, more than 80% of our crops.
We feed to animals.
If you certify that your crops are going to be fed to animals, you can dump pesticides and herbicides onto them that you couldn't dump onto them if you weren't going to be feeding those crops to animals.
Well, actually, the way we do it, I agree with you in North Carolina.
They've got a real problem with pigs and all the runoff into the ocean and the terrible things that's producing in the estuaries and all the rest of it.
Animals have rights, and animals have inherent interests, and animals, like human beings, deserve not to be eaten.
The reality is that, you know, going back to the concept of democracy that I started on earlier, it's a concept of the social contract.
Again, you have the right to swing your fist, but that right is limited.
You have limits on your rights wherever they conflict with the rights of others to be free from, for example, being hit by your fist.
And what we're saying is that animals also have a right to be free from exploitation at the hands of human beings.
And that includes slaughterhouses, and that includes factory farms and circuses and rodeos and laboratories.
We extend this basic right to all human beings, and we should also be extending this basic right to all beings who have interests.
And certainly, at the very least, we know that biologically, physiologically, mammals, birds, and fish all have, biologically and physiologically, the same pain response mechanisms that human beings do, and they therefore have the same right.
They're not as cute and cuddly as puppies and kittens.
Their cute and cuddly factor is very low.
But physiologically, biologically, they have a capacity for pain and for suffering, and they deserve not to experience that at human hands.
Going back to the health argument again, that no fiber, no carbohydrates, lots of saturated fat and cholesterol relative to vegetarian products, and going back to Dean Ornish and Dr. Esselstein at the Cleveland Clinic, no fish.
Well, I grew up in Minnesota fishing fish, and I also grew up fishing for 12 years, land of 10,000 lakes.
And I can tell you, they don't require any training to go out there and toss a hook into the water.
And when you, oftentimes, you know, especially kids, you end up ripping, sometimes the fish will swallow the hook, bleed to death internally if you throw the fish back.
Oftentimes you rip the fish's entire face right off because they're hurting.
Where seafood comes from, they have these 40-mile-long drift nets.
They comb the bottoms of the ocean.
In addition to destroying the aqua ecosystems on the oceans, they also just sweep up everything in their path.
And half of this stuff is fed to cows and pigs and chickens on factory farms.
And interestingly, we also feed all of the downer cows and pigs and chickens back to cows and pigs and chickens.
So we've turned these naturally vegetarian animals not just into carnivores, but actually into cannibals.
We're feeding cows to cows and pigs to pigs and chickens to chickens.
And also half of the sea life that these factory trawlers dredge up from the oceans, half of that also goes into cows and pigs and chickens, naturally, again, vegetarians.
And it's so unnatural and it's such a complete perversion.
And the amount, the immensity of the suffering is so vast that from a strictly animal welfare standpoint, people of good conscience should not be taking part in this stuff.
Do you know there's nothing in the world, nothing, that duplicates the taste of a quarter pounder.
And I don't care where on the globe you go, a quarter pounder, far, far away, doesn't matter.
Quarter pounders are the same.
I'll tell you, you take a quarter pounder without cheese, and you've got something that has the most distinctive taste in the world.
Now, I'm sure he's also had to say something really terrible about McDonald's.
But I'll tell you right now, in Paris, where they, Paris, France, which I love, they don't even have a clue about how to cook meat.
And that's because they really don't cook it.
What they actually do is they, if you, when you complain that your food is not, your meat is not cooked, they take it in the back room and they paint it brown.
I'm convinced.
So when I was in Paris, I walked miles and miles to get to a McDonald's.
Well, no, we're after McDonald's because in June of 1997, a British high court judge, after the longest trial in British history, ruled that McDonald's was culpably responsible for cruelty to animals.
But if McDonald's is going to claim to want to be a leader in animal welfare, as last Friday's Wall Street Journal and the Associated Press story that hit the wire last night claim, they say they want to be a leader in animal welfare.
They refuse to even look at the half a dozen ways that the judge spelled out that they're cruel to animals.
For example, searing the beaks off of chickens with a hot iron so that millions of years starve to death.
For example, cramming these chickens by the tens of thousands of sheds cooped in their own seas.
And because McDonald's has only two suppliers of chickens and two suppliers of eggs, they could change these practices.
Because McDonald's is working with, supposedly, these slaughterhouses, they could issue some sort of sanction against people who violate the USDA Humane Slaughter Act.
Not only will they not issue a sanction, but they have produced a video saying that if 5% of the animals end up skinned alive and dismembered while fully conscious, that's an acceptable level.
The USDA says 100%.
And their video, the next line in the video is, well, the USDA requires 100%.
Well, that is violating federal law.
They are advocating violating federal law where animal welfare is concerned.
But maybe, Bruce, they're saying that in the world of slaughterhouses, which is not a good world, I'm sure it's not a good world, that they're doing better than the average.
Maybe that's what they're saying.
Maybe they're saying we're not perfect and nobody's perfect, but we're doing better than the others.
Well, they certainly haven't shown that they're doing better than the others.
And in our negotiations, which have been going on for a couple of years, we have said, now, their animal welfare consultant is a wonderful woman, Dr. Temple Grandin at Colorado State University.
And we asked, we said, okay, so people violate Dr. Grandin's audits and their announced audits.
What do you do?
McDonald's does nothing.
We said to Dr. Grandin, what would be a really great way to approach 100% stunning effectiveness?
And she said, well, if they hired a second person to be a stunner on the line, and remember, this job occupation, slaughterhouse worker, has nine times the rate of injury of coal miners in Appalachia.
So if you care about human beings, it's another good reason not to be eating animal products.
But we said, so what could they do?
And she said they could hire a second stunner.
And we said, well, if McDonald's were to whisper to their suppliers that they should hire a second stunner, what would happen?
And Dr. Grandon said they'd all hire a second stunner.
And we said to McDonald's, you going to do it?
And they said, no.
McDonald's cares not one whit about animal welfare.
I'm saying that if they are producing something that says they're at least trying harder, or at least talking about it, then that's more than a lot of them are doing, isn't it?
Because a lot of them aren't talking and won't talk about this at all, will they?
We've been trying to be in good faith negotiations with McDonald's for two years, and we haven't seen any evidence that they care at all about anything other than how this affects their public relations status.
Anybody from McDonald's who wants to come on is welcome to come on.
Then I'll have Bruce back, and you can go at it.
Here's something for you, Bruce.
I fail to understand why a reasonably intelligent person like yourself, meaning me, would give any airtime to extremist animal rights groups like PETA.
Didn't you know they support domestic terrorism through the Animal Liberation Front, whom they have paid the legal fees of those caught burning down labs and even worse, I would not wish to be associated with such a group.
I would do some depth investigation of this group before ever talking to them online.
All right, well, so do you, in fact, with money, bail out Animal Liberation Front people who get put in a slammer or burning down labs?
We don't bail out people who get put in the slammer.
I think it's interesting, you know, the Animal Liberation Front.
I think people need to ask themselves what they're doing to stop animal cruelty.
It's very easy to point at other people and say, you know, you've gone too far.
But I think it's a very reasonable question to say, what am I doing to try to be as compassionate and as kind as I possibly can rather than pointing fingers at other people and saying, you know, those people are going too far.
And the thing I find really quite remarkable about so many other people who claim the pro-life moniker is that they claim to be pro-life, and they're perfectly willing to sit down and dine on, again, tortured corpses.
This is so anti-life.
You couldn't be any more anti-life than requiring suffering and death every time you sit down.
I do think that both animal rights and animal welfare transcend these sort of boundaries, having to do with liberal and conservative, and having to do with...
No, we believe, and again, this goes back to the question of animal rights as opposed to animal welfare.
We believe that animals are not here for human purposes.
We believe that animals have interests in the same way that human beings have interests.
But I'll tell you, the vast majority of our budget goes into trying to convince people to simply improve conditions for animals on farms, for animals who are raised for food, for animals who are raised for experimentation.
It is such a violent reality for this animal that we really have few disagreements with the Humane Society of the United States, a wonderful organization that works on animal welfare.
example, I really abhor the use of animals for commercial experimentation involving some new makeup or whatever in God's name they're doing, but on the other hand, if they're able to experiment on animals and come up with a spinal cord, a cure for people who have severed their spinal cords, then that is a proper stewardship, Bruce.
We spend more than 99% of our research money we spend on trying to find cures for things when, according to our own search in general, 90% of this disease is lifestyle related.
We need to spend more money on prevention.
It's also the case that animal research costs both human and animal lives every year.
I mean, look at protease inhibitors for AIDS.
They were shelved for six years because of faulty animal experimentation, and a lot of people died very miserable AIDS deaths as a result.
The polio vaccine, shelved for 10 years because of faulty experimentation on animals.
Tobacco research, for goodness sake.
Tobacco still doesn't cause lung cancer in dogs and chickens, and consequently the tobacco company executives get up and say the evidence is inconclusive.
The list goes on and on and on, and I can tell you based on having worked in a shelter for homeless families for more than six years that people have very long waiting lists and get bumped off of drug treatment programs and rehabilitation programs very quickly for the minorest of violations.
And in the meantime, we're spending hundreds of millions of dollars to study the effects of cocaine and alcohol and tobacco on animals.
Well, I understand that, and society tends to view them in a different category as well.
But I would posit that in 100 years, we're going to look back on our present-day treatment of animals with the same horror and revulsion that we presently reserve for the way we look back at animals.
Well, I think they're going to have a Bill of Rights in the same way that human beings, like babies, who also can't give back to society, or human beings who are mentally deficient can't give back to society.
Animals deserve to be protected from exploitation in the same way that other human beings deserve to be protected from exploitation, regardless of their capacity to fulfill on the social contract.
I think you've got a lot of good ideas, and your intent's good, but I think you're kind of stuck with the metaphor and don't realize it's reference.
Example, there's a documentary on the nomadic Pune Dayaks of Borneo's Sikh Interior, our tribe.
And they talk about the natural rhythms of the earth.
In other words, if everybody just stopped eating chicken and meat and everything else like that, you know, in about three months, and I was told this by a friend of mine who's really into maths and stuff, that the earth rhythms would be thrown off.
And not only that, here's a quick little story.
I got a friend, Mike, where I used to live in Michigan.
And he met this girl, and she wanted to be a photographer, and she wanted to be a model, and her parents lived in upstate New York so he moved away with her for six months well he took a couple weeks off and came back home well she was a vegetarian and her mother was a vegetarian but her father wasn't and her father was a um is now a retired neurologist and I've talked to him and there's a lot of other professionals I've talked to who who don't agree with you as far as it being good for the body anyway when Mike came
home
he looked different because you know he turned a vegetarian you know as a faith he kept his faith he hung in there for six months but when he came back you know according to vegetarians he was healthy but you know i know him i grew up with him he looked ill his complexion looked off he didn't look right he said he felt kind of okay but in a way he just felt like there was something missing you see mike that's right people say that they say they feel great but to the rest of us they look emaciated right their color is poor
right they just we bought some ground chuck and you know we got fed up and i was making hamburgers and i'm nice while i you know turn on the gas grill and he was like god that smells good and anyway we talked him into eating one he said don't tell my old lady please well no we won't you know my buddies are on five of us he sat there and he ate three of them yeah within it was 20 minutes right and he was 20 minutes his whole complexion change and it's like the blood was flowing again and then
within 45 minutes once these proteins were hitting his bloodstream yes he says andy i feel alive and art he was just glowing and then yes there's a lot of medical science professionals out there who will back up this claim i know i look i i believe every word you said bruce um he's the guy is right no
the guy is very much not right you can certainly be okay let bruce say something you can certainly be an unhealthy vegetarian it's easier to be an unhealthy carnivore the fact is these foods are laden with saturated fat and cholesterol they're devoid of carbohydrates and fiber and people like michael eisner steve jobs pamela anderson kim basinger jenny garth many many people have adopted vegetarian diets they're doing just fine thank you and if you go into the diet not wanting to do it as this fellow obviously did if
you eat nothing but you know twizzlers and coca-cola certainly you're going to waste away and you're going to be pale and you're going to have problems but the fact is even the american dietetic association who gets awards from the meat industry the heart association the cancer society the usda for gracious sake all of these people and the medical evidence could not be more conclusive if you want to stave off heart disease cancer stroke obesity the biggest killers the worst health problems we're having in this country a veggie diet is the way to go okay listen this is very important okay
okay this is backed up by a friend of mine who's not who's not only a doctor in philosophy but he's also a veterinarian listen uh let me call her at the veg hotline before we go to break what well all right though only be to call her stay on the line i'll bring you back uh what is the veggie hotline it's toll free we'll send a free vegetarian starter pack it's eight eight eight eight veg food eight eight eight v-e-g-f-o-o-d our expense free information free information that's eight eight eight veg
food what a cutie number i hate those things what during the break figure out what the real number is for me all right i sure will all right stay right there.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's
featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from August 17 1999 I'm Dr. Dina Dell AIO
Hey ya, hey ya, hey ya, oh.
Hey ya, hey ya, oh.
Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 17, 1999.
Others, now that I've said something, will say, well, yes, I can hear the difference in the audio.
unidentified
Oh.
the truth you'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
When you look at what's going on around this planet, it's almost as if someone has got a playbook to try to control all these countries all of a sudden.
I've always said that not everything is a conspiracy, but a lot of it is.
You know, when you start looking into things, there's only certain set of conclusions you can reach.
And unfortunately, this is one of them.
You know, it's very, very hard not to see things like that when you start looking at things in a larger picture.
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Looking for the truth?
You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
I argue with people about disclosure time and time again.
I've told them governments are not going to come out willingly to tell us it's going to happen by a mistake, it's going to happen by a whistleblower, but it's not going to be an organized thing.
Governments won't do that.
And the reason why they won't do it is because they do not want us to know.
They think that they'll lose control of us if we know.
If you actually truly believed that we were being visited by extraterrestrials and you had categorical proof that it was happening, do you think you would listen to some of the bull that government throws out all the time?
Absolutely not.
You'd look toward the heavens, you'd say there's got to be a better way, and you would start doing your own thing.
And you would forget all about government control and everything else.
So the bottom line is government will never, ever disclose the true facts of UFOs.
You're listening to Art Bells Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from August 17, 1999.
And it seems to me that the level of violence that's perpetrated against animals, I'm certainly not going to condemn people who decide that the violence is just too great.
You've really gone over the line now because you just, on the one hand, you complain about the way you perceive their treatment of animals to be, and you say, well, they're breaking the law because of this.
And on the other hand, out of your mouth comes, well, I wouldn't blame people for bringing down all the McDonald's.
We're Americans who have turned animals into so many machines and so many boxes in a warehouse, and the suffering and the misery and the cruelty is so unimaginably extreme.
And these slaughterhouses are so violent and so bloody, they're routinely skinning these animals alive, dipping these animals into boiling hot water for hair removal while they're still conscious and kicking.
Well, Andy's second point having to do with the medical professionals, it's just patently absurd.
The medical professionals have lined up to support a vegetarian diet.
You're not going to find condemnation of a vegetarian diet from any established health organization.
The Pediatric Society, the American Heart Association, the Cancer Society, the American Medical Association, even the USDA, which basically works as a spokes drone for the meat and dairy industry in this country, even the USDA in their Dietary Recommendations for Americans says that a vegetarian diet is an excellent diet for preventing heart disease, cancer, and so on.
See, and the fact is it would still be arson, and it would still be in violation of the law, and it would still be just, and it would still be the right thing.
Well, what I'm trying to point out to you is that the law is the law.
And I'm sure you're not really, or maybe you are in favor of arson.
What do I know?
You shouldn't be.
But I agree with you that some laws regarding the treatment of animals certainly should change.
I'm all for that.
And I think the best way you can get constructive change, ultimately, Bruce, and I really mean this, is not by burning down McDonald's restaurants, but by engaging them in constructive discussion.
Well, the reality, again, and this goes back to the reason I went vegan in the first place 12 years ago, the reality is that we feed more than 70% of our grains in this country.
About 80% we feed to animals.
And it's the worst thing that we're doing to the environment.
So you have to put 20 calories.
Animals live their lives.
You have to put 20 calories into an animal to get one calorie out of an animal.
We could feed vastly more people on an exclusively vegan diet because the land would be used more efficiently.
We also wouldn't be destroying the topsoil by dumping the herbicides and pesticides onto it that we couldn't dump onto it.
Well, the reality today is that we have faux meats for absolutely every occasion.
If you can do it with animal products, you can do it just as effectively without them, just as deliciously, but without the cholesterol, without the unsaturated fat, and hopefully without the pangs of conscience.
What your guest has been saying, and I've been listening to him for some time here now this evening, and I know for a fact, from listening to him, that he knows that what he's laying out is a lot of it is a bunch of bull.
He's not giving you the truth.
That low-calorie, all-vegetable diet that is clearing up the cholesterol out of the bloodstreams, it's not clearing it up because of being an all-vegetable diet.
It's clearing it up because of it being a low-fat diet, low in saturated fats.
Now, if they fry that food up in a bunch of hydrogenated vegetable oil, their cholesterol is going to shoot up as high as a person living on pork.
Well, the leanest meat is still about 30% fat and laden with cholesterol.
And I would just point out, I mean, quoting from Newsweek, your web guy has just linked to Dean Ornish's book.
And quoting from Newsweek, it says, Dr. Ornish's work could change the lives of millions.
At the end of the year, most patients reported that their chest pains had virtually disappeared.
For 82%, arterial clogging had reversed.
Again, that's never happened in human history before Ornish.
They started to feel better almost immediately, and today they feel great.
Dr. Ornish's patients are thrilled with their lives.
By the standards of conventional medicine, the impossible happened.
And then from Esquire, Dr. Dean Ornish is the first clinician to offer documented proof that heart disease can be halted or even reversed simply by changing your lifestyle.
Participants reduced or discontinued medications.
Their chest pain diminished or disappeared.
They felt more energetic, happy, and calm.
They lost weight while eating more, and blockages in coronary arteries actually began to reverse.
The only other person who's ever done this, also with a low-fat vegetarian diet, published in the latest issue of the American Journal of Cardiology, Professor Ethelstein at the Cleveland Clinic.
Well, so far, with drugs, they've never been able to clean out people's arteries with the exception of this one study from the Cleveland Clinic and the latest journal of the American Journal of Cardiology.
And that also required a low-fat vegetarian diet.
And the color's right.
You can be an unhealthy vegetarian.
It's harder to do, and even the leanest cuts of meat are still laden with cholesterol, laden with saturated fat relative to their vegetarian counterparts.
And if you read calorically, that milk is 30% or more fat.
It's a calorie thing as opposed to a weight thing.
So what people really need to do is monitor that half of it.
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Dairy fat doesn't hurt you one bit because dairy fat is a monounsaturated fat that is incapable of solidifying in the bloodstream at body temperature, so it never does pack up and clog arteries or anything.
I drink a gallon a day of raw milk and I have a cholesterol level of 82.
I would encourage people to, well, you're the one who's talking about the leanest cuts of meat being 10% fat, which I think is not possible.
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I didn't say the leanest cut.
I said that the extra lean is 10% fat, and you can get meat that has all the fat trimmed off of it and has virtually no marboline in the meat whatsoever, which is what has become very popular today because of the limousine cattle that they're raising out there that don't put on a lot of fat the way the Herefords do and the Angus do.
See, caller, here's where Bruce goes over the line because even that kind of beef, he would be just as opposed to as whatever he really thinks is over the line.
I would encourage people to read labels and read the medical literature.
The only nutritionist whose program is covered by the insurance companies is Dr. Dean Ornish.
He's helping people lose weight.
He's helping people unclog their arteries.
He's doing it with a low-fat vegetarian diet.
He's one of two people who have ever done that.
The other person also requires a low-fat vegetarian diet.
You can certainly be an unhealthy vegetarian, and we don't advocate that, but it's much easier to be an unhealthy meat eater because no matter how much meat you eat, you're not going to get one gram of fiber.
You're not going to get one gram of carbohydrates.
Those are the things we need to keep our bodies in good working order.
Even the leanest cuts of meat, calorie for calorie, and go check it out.
Even the leanest cuts of meat, calorie for calorie, are roughly 30% fat and still laden with carbon.
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If you want some good, high-fiber food, go to McDonald's.
McDonald's happens to be the very biggest customer of Weyerhauser because they buy sawdust from Weyerhauser.
They put sawdust into their meat.
They put sawdust into their buns and everything.
Their milkshakes are made out of sawdust instead of ice cream.
No, in fact, I'm much nicer to them than they are.
I raise polled cattle.
The reason, and they're naturally polled, it's a genetic thing.
It's in the breeding.
The reason I like polled cattle is because the cattle kill each other with their horns.
Just because they get a wild hair up their butt, they get angry and they kill each other, goring each other to death.
And if you've ever had to charge out there and wrestle a 1,400-pound cow down to the ground because she is killing her offspring, you know, just because she decided that right at that moment she didn't want to let it drink out of the pond.
Yeah, but for somebody who said a little while ago that he didn't care if they burned down every McDonald's, which is arson, arson, arson times gazillions.
For you to say that and then to go out on that limb and refuse to go out on a limb where PETA had its way and made the laws regarding the eating of meat, that's, come on.
are treating animals respectfully and since people are not presently treating animals respectfully since anything goes The driver told us it was the fourth accident in two weeks.
This was last year, just before Thanksgiving, because the trucks were so overloaded for Thanksgiving.
They had 1,400 turkeys on the back of this transport truck.
The truck turned over, and it took them more than 12 hours to reload the remaining, about 600 of the animals died.
About 600 of the animals they just picked up, loaded right back onto the truck and drove them through the noon heat to the slaughterhouse, six more hours to the slaughterhouse, every single one of those animals with broken bones.
But if they can do it for another person, the problem here, Bruce, is that even in that impossible, perfect world where the laws were the way you wanted them, you still wouldn't want people eating meat.
I actually have someone who has been a vegetarian for many years and actually engaged in a vegan diet for several years.
Yes.
And you grew puny and weak, right?
Not really, but I was fairly meticulous about it in terms of nutrition and making sure I got my requirements.
But what I will say is that there's an interesting body of research that has to do with the blood typing of the human being.
And excuse me, I'm getting nervous there for a second.
And what that body of research says, and that's by Dr. Peter Diadamo, and that body of research says that as they looked at blood types, they found out that type O's were generally predisposed to meat eating.
And the A's, well, I'll leave that to your imagination.
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And because those people come from primarily an agricultural culture.
And type B's are nomadic, so they really have more of a fruit and nut and some meat type of diet.
So that is kind of an interesting thing.
I think this is an incredible subject.
We can need to keep exploring it.
But I have started to incorporate some meat in my diet.
But what I do do is to use antibiotic and hormone-free, free-range organic meat.
And the humane issue is a big issue to me.
And I think that in that regard, I agree with Bruce completely.
But I think that there's some other aspects that as we go through this continued understanding of what this all means, that we need to try to encourage the meat growers to use I think it's appalling, obviously we all feel that way, but we need to encourage the humanity aspect and the organic and the antibiotic and stereotypes.
Well, David raises, I think, a couple of very interesting points.
And I'm going to start with the second one and encourage people, if you're going to absolutely eat meat, please have a bit of integrity about it.
Visit the farm where the animals are raised and visit the slaughterhouse.
And if you can't do that, if you can't visit the farm, if you can't visit the slaughterhouse, I think you should be very circumspect about where these animals are coming from.
Because I've been to about a dozen of these so-called free-range places and the animals aren't treated any better because there aren't any government regulations about what free-range means.
So that's one thing.
And free-range animals end up generally in the exact same slaughterhouses as their non-free-range counterparts.
10 to 20% of them are skinned alive and dismembered while they're still fully conscious.
It's an awful reality.
And people who want more information on that, there's a book called Slaughterhouse that I can't recommend more highly.
Well, it's a gruesome book, and it's based on affidavits from slaughterhouse workers about the huge proportion of animals that are skinned while they're fully conscious.
Well, listen, if I was willing to try whatever it is you would foist off on me as something I should be eating, then why wouldn't you try my Kobe beef, which had been massaged?