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July 6, 1999 - Art Bell

02:41:24

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Hollywood Film Producer - Steven Simon

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37:58

steven simon

01:21:09

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the Wild Guard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Ark Bell from the Kingdom of Nigh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, good morning from the high desert.
		Coming up next, Stephen Simon.
		What a treat you're in for.
		Stephen Simon graduated from UCLA and Loyola Law School, being admitted to the California Bar in 1974.
		He practiced law until being hired by legendary producer Ray Stark in 1976 as Stark's personal assistant.
		What a trip.
		In 1977, Simon was responsible for the acquisition, development, and production of Smokey and the Bandit.
		Remember that starring Burt Reynolds, which grossed $200 million on a $4 million budget.
		Boy, movie makers love that.
		He was then made head of production, I can imagine, and supervised The Electric Horseman, a property he acquired and developed for Robert Redford and Jane Fonda, Neil Simon's The Goodbye Girl, starring Marcia Mason and Richard Dreyfus and three other Neil Simon projects, Murder by Death, The Cheap Detective, and California Suite.
		I bet a lot of bells are being rung out there.
		In 1979, Simon left Rayshark to produce Somewhere in Time for Universal Studios.
		The film starring the incredible Christopher Reeve and Jane Seymour has become a cult classic.
		It sure is with me.
		It's perhaps my...
		He's made two of my favorite movies.
		During the production of Somewhere in Time, Malthus in Game Simon Dial Galleys of his newest novel, What Dreams May Come.
		This began Simon's 20-year odyssey to get to What Dreams May Come filmed.
		And that in itself would be a very interesting story, I would imagine.
		You're about to hear it.
		Simon also produced All the Right Moves for 20th Century Fox, starring Tom Cruise, the smash hit comedy Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, and its sequel, and the Tony Danza comedy, She's Out of Control.
		From 1990 to 93, Simon was president of production for Dino DeLaurentis Communications, which time he oversaw the international distribution of an eye-opening backstage view of the Madonna tour, Remember Truth or Dare, which was an international hit and an instant classic of the rockumentary genre.
		Other films Simon supervised for DeLaurentis included director Sam Ramy's occult favorite, Army of Darkness, Once Upon a Crime, with John Candy, and Cuff's A Cop Comedy starring Christian Slater.
		In 1994, Simon met his new partner, Barnett Bain, and Metafilmics was created, leading to the successful conclusion of Simon's dedication to What Dreams May Come.
		What Dreams May Come, what a movie.
		When I last interviewed Stephen, I had not yet seen What Dreams May Come, and he was trying to describe it to me.
		I think I've seen it about 10 times since, and I'm not somebody who watches the movies a lot of times.
		In 1996, Metafilmics secured financing for the film from Polygram.
		Filming commenced in June of 97.
		The film released in October of 98 through February 1st, 99.
		What Dreams May Come, folks, grossed over $100 million worldwide and has received two 1999 Academy Award nominations for Visual Effects and Art Director.
		And I could be wrong, but I believe that it won for Visual Effects.
		We'll ask in a moment.
		That's what my memory tells me.
		So, in a moment, coming up, Stephen Simon.
unidentified		Don't touch that dial.
unidentified		And now, back to the best of Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, so many good works.
		Stephen Simon.
		Stephen, welcome to the program.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thank you, Art.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		It's wonderful to talk to you again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We had you on Dreamland, and you're probably on just about double the number of affiliates that you were on then.
		So we're probably going to cover some of the same territory.
		Great, let's do it.
		I'm a really big movie fan, Stephen.
		I have, I guess, as many as a couple of thousand movies.
		I collect them.
		But I don't, even though I collect them, I don't frequently watch a movie twice.
		When I first met my wife, Ramona, one of the first things I showed her was Somewhere in Time.
		And I had fallen in love with this film.
		I mean, I just didn't like this film.
		I would watch it again and again and again.
		And I sat Ramona down, and she watched it, and she had exactly the same experience with that movie that I did.
		I don't think there ever is going to be another movie like it ever in the world.
		It was just, it affected me that strongly.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have never, Stephen, done something because of a movie, but there is going to be a reunion at, I used to call it Mackinac before I knew better, at Mackinac Island where that movie was filmed, and it's going to be this fall, and I'm going to be there.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		That's great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So are we.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You told me on the phone that you can't really go home, or you thought you really can't go home again, so you've never gone to one of these beings.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		No, I haven't.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		I haven't been back to the island since we actually premiered the film there in 1980.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So how come now?
unidentified		Well, quite frankly, you're right.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		I really have had the feeling you can't go home again.
		That was such a beautiful, romantic, extraordinary time.
		You know, it was the culmination of me wanting to make this film, which has got me, actually that book, which Somewhere in Time was based on, is what got me into the movie business.
		And we can talk about that in a second.
		I have such great memories of it.
		I have had that Thomas Wolfe thing in my mind.
		You can't go home again.
		And it's such a romantic weekend about such a romantic movie.
		But fortunately for me in my life now, I'm very much in love with a wonderful woman named Catherine Miller, who publishes a magazine called The Holistic Health Journal.
		And we are going to go to that weekend for the first time since, you know, I haven't been back there in 18 or 19 years.
		And I think it's because of Catherine being in my life and me feeling like I have someone that I love that I can go there with.
		I don't think I could go to the Somewhere in Time weekend and not have someone that I love.
		I don't think you'd want to go there without Ramona.
		And I guess it's just the right time.
		Three months before the end of the millennium, we're coming up on the 20th anniversary of Somewhere in Time, its release, which is in October of 1980.
		And I'm beginning to hear actually a couple of rumbles that Universal may, on a very limited basis, re-release the film in a few theaters and a few cities to mark the 20th anniversary, because as you may or may not be aware, Somewhere in Time was not a successful film when it was first released.
		It was not commercially successful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think that was?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was out of its time.
		You know, this was 1980.
		This was the beginning of the Reagan era.
		It was a time in which an old-fashioned, romantic movie like Somewhere in Time was just not a part of the public consciousness.
		And we, I think, made a serious mistake with the way we distributed the film.
		It was opened in a thousand theaters at one time.
		It's the kind of film that probably needed to be opened in a few theaters and built word of mouth.
		And that was 19 years ago when you could actually still do that.
		It's a lot harder to do that today.
		And I think we made a mistake by doing that.
		I think it might have found its audience a little bit better.
		But at the same time, it probably just was before its time.
		And it really wasn't until two things happened.
		HBO started showing movies without commercial interruption and Somewhere in Time was among the first batch and they got an extraordinary response to it.
		So they started to show it a lot.
		And then this wonderful man who worked at Hughes Aviation for many, many years formed this fan club for Somewhere in Time.
		And it began this passionate attempt to get television stations around the country to play the movie.
		And people began to be aware of it on the basis of cable and of television.
		And that's how it caught on.
		And most people that you talked to did not see the movie in the theater.
		Very few people have seen it on the street.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here, here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If Somewhere in Time had been released sometime in the last five years, I'll bet you it would have grossed the $100 million that you just grossed with What Dreams May Come or better.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		It may very well have.
		You know, it may very well have.
		I never think that.
		You never know with those kinds of things.
		I can tell you this.
		I know if What Dreams May Come had even been tried to have been made 19 years ago, we would have failed completely.
		So because we just wouldn't have had the technology, we wouldn't have been able to do what we did.
		Usually things happen in their time.
		Somewhere in Time was a little bit before it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell me about how the whole concept developed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, the original book that Somewhere in Time was based on was Bidtime Return, wasn't it?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Bidtime Return, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bid Time Return.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		It was written by a wonderful man named Richard Matheson, who most of your listeners are going to remember from being one of the key writers on The Twilight Zone.
		He and Rod Serling wrote most, if most of the Twilight Zone episodes.
		He wrote The Incredible Shrinking Man.
		He wrote I Am Legend.
		He's really one of the great science fiction and fantasy writers that we have in the world.
		And he wrote two love stories.
		He wrote Somewhere in Time and he wrote What Dreams May Come.
		And Somewhere in Time, which was then Bidtime Return, was written and I think originally published in 1975.
		And I had always had this tremendous passion to get into the movie business.
		But the timing wasn't right.
		And I went into a bookstore and a clerk said to me, you know, I know the kind of books you read.
		You've got to read this book.
		And I read that book and I put it down.
		I said, okay, that's it.
		I'm in the movie business.
		I've got to get that book made as a film.
		And I begged my way into a job, literally begged my way into a job with Ray Stark as his assistant.
		And the first call I ever made when I got that job was to Richard Mathis' agent.
		We set up a lunch.
		I met him.
		And I said, listen, Richard, I don't know what it's going to take, but I want to make this as a movie.
		Will you shake my hand?
		I promise I'll do it.
		And we shook hands.
		It took three years.
		And we went off to make the film.
		And the actual making of the film and how that happened is also a story.
		And I don't know how much detail you want to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we've got plenty of time for it.
		By the way, did you know that the prop of Bidtime Return is up for auction on eBay?
		I shouldn't say it because I wanted to bid on it myself.
		That's how crazy I am about that.
		No, which props?
unidentified		Well, you remember the old lady.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you mean a watch?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The actual...
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no kidding.
unidentified		Is that right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		Some of the props are up there, apparently being auctioned.
		I don't know how people are getting hold of them.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		God, I knew that Universal was having some trouble.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		I didn't think they needed that much money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I think probably they don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think probably these just sort of leaked out because there's such a passion about this movie.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		There is that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so sure.
		I'd love to hear about the genesis of it.
		And was there a lot of opposition to it?
		In other words.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Again, it was very much out of its time.
		It was a very old-fashioned film.
		It was a very old-fashioned idea for a film.
		And frankly, was very much inspired by an older movie called Portrait of Jenny, which you may or may not remember.
		If you haven't seen it, I would really heartily recommend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, I'm not.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		It was a movie in the 40s.
		And Richard Matheson actually was at the Coronado Hotel, which is where the book was set.
		And he really thought about when he was in this hall of history they have there looking at these photographs of these actresses, I wonder if I could go back in time.
		And the book was originally set there.
		We could not shoot there because we could never make it look like 1912 at the Coronado Hotel in San Diego.
		So that was why eventually we found Mackinac Island.
		But there was a lot of opposition to it.
		And I had just left Ray Stark and had this book in development at Universal.
		And a couple of very serendipitous things happened.
		One, this wonderful director named Chanel Swark, who directed Somewhere in Time, had just saved Universal a lot of headaches by coming in and doing Jaws 2 for them under very difficult circumstances.
		And they felt they owed him a favor.
		And Janot and I got together and he said, I've always wanted to do a movie like Portrait of Jenny.
		And I said, oh, I've got the right book for you.
		So we got Janot and we developed this script and we turned it into Universal.
		And this wonderful man named Ned Tannen, who was the head of the studio at that time, was deciding whether or not he would make it.
		And the production executive on it said, well, we've got to give him a list of actors.
		And we made up this list of actors.
		This is, by the way, two months after the release of Superman 1, in which Chris Reeve became this huge international star.
		And Verna Fields, bless her heart, who is our executive, who was an editor and actually won the Academy Award for editing JAWS, said, Steve, you've got to put Chris Reeve on this list.
		And I said, please, Verna, don't put Chris Reeve on this list.
		If you do, Ned's going to say, I'll make this movie only if I can get Chris Reeves.
unidentified		I see.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And we're going to be in line with everybody else in the world.
		Please don't make me do this.
		Well, she did, and of course, Ned did exactly that.
		So it's like, yeah, if you can get Chris Reeve, we'll make the movie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he was a really, really hot property.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, everybody in the world wanted him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then the question, obvious question, is this movie that was before its time, how in the world did Chris, did Chris view it the same way when he was presented with the script?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		He did, and he was so wonderful about it.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		You know, when you get to be, when you have that kind of mercury rise, you're surrounded by a lot of people who want to protect you and in so doing, protect themselves.
unidentified		Sure.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And his agent at the time absolutely wouldn't even give him our script.
		He was, this is ridiculous.
		It's a little movie.
		He's going to make big movies.
		And frankly, we sneaked it to his house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had never heard this.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And Chris read the script and we got a phone call through a very disgruntled agent saying, well, he wants to meet with you.
		And Janot and I and Richard Matheson went to the house that Chris was living in at that time.
		And we sat down and he said, you know, everyone's telling me I'm crazy to do this.
		You know, it's completely different from Superman.
		But I love this.
		And if me being involved in this is going to help this movie get made, I'm in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's some story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had no idea that went on.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		So when he signed on, then we had a movie, and they gave us the grand sum of $4.2 million to make it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By today's standards, that's sort of, what, about 10 minutes of shooting?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can tell you this, the visual effects budget on what dreams may come, just the visual effects budget was $18 million.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		So we went off to Make Somewhere in Time, and it was a magical, fantastic experience.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And we were lucky to get Jane Seymour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was going to be my next question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you get Jane?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, we had an open call, actually.
		We interviewed an awful lot of actresses to be somebody opposite Chris.
		And Chris is such a wonderful man.
		There's no ego about Chris Reed.
		There never was.
		There never was.
		He was always just a part of the team.
		And Chris said, well, you know, you're going to read these actresses.
		I'll read all of them with you.
		Which, you know, movie stars just don't do.
		You know, they basically don't do.
		And he read with everybody.
		And we got a phone call that Jane Seymour, who had just been in a James Bond film, the name of which just slips my mind.
		I don't remember which one it was.
		She hadn't made an American film yet that she wanted to come in and read.
		And Jane came in dressed as the character.
		She'd had this extraordinary dress made that was a period dress from 1912.
		She came in dressed as the character, and she acted the character from the minute she walked in the room.
		Boy, she sat down, she read with Chris.
		We all looked at each other and said, well, that's the end of this search.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold on.
		Stay right there.
		We'll be right back with you.
		Stephen Simon is my guest.
		And we will indeed take you back to 1912.
		By the way, I've got a photograph I need to show you, which we'll get to after the break.
		From the High Desert, I'm Art Bell.
		Stephen Simon is my guest, and we will be back.
unidentified		Don't touch that dial.
		To reach your Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is none other than Stephen Simon, responsible for actually two of my favorite movies of all time, period.
		One of them is Somewhere in Time.
		And if you look on my website on my, over on the left-hand side at www.rfl.com, I just took a webcam photograph of a photograph that I've got of Jane Seymour.
		It is the same photograph that was in the film.
		And it's not possible to look at that photograph without falling in love with it.
		I don't know.
		There's just something about it.
		And the way she looks and the way she radiated, it's all right there.
		Anyway, we'll get back to all of that in a moment.
unidentified		Well, I started it out down a dirty road.
		Started out all the way and you stayed out as you crossed the hill and the time to get up.
		You will get still away.
		You're listening to an on tour presentation of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bad.
		This program is rebroadcast from ArtBell's live program, which airs Monday through Friday from 10 p.m. to 3 a.m. Pacific time and 1 a.m. to 6 a.m. Eastern Time.
		Please contact your local radio listening for the times that Coast to Coast AM airs live in your area.
		And now, the best of Coast to Coast AM with Art Dow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now to Stephen Simon.
		And Stephen, what I've done is I've taken a photograph.
		I have this little webcam that takes a photograph about every minute or so of me, or less than a minute, 30 seconds perhaps.
		And I took a picture off my wall and took a photograph of it so everybody can go up to my website and see it.
		It's the photograph with the frame that was in Somewhere in Time of Jane Seymour.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the portrait that pulls him back in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The portrait that stops hearts.
		You could not look at that face.
		It is about as classic, I'm telling you, this is as classic a look as a person could dream about.
		And so I can only imagine when you saw her walk in in period costume to try out for this, everybody's heart must have stopped.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we did.
		We looked at Chris and Jane and said, that's it.
		It was just, and literally we stopped right there.
		It was like, okay, you got the part.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how does she, what are, have you heard her reflections on it since then?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, well, you know, it's something that causes both, everyone involved in that film knew that we were involved in something very unique.
		It was a very, very magical time.
		We were on this beautiful island that does not allow motorized vehicles.
		So it was a big brouhaha to bring our truck on.
		The Grand Hotel had never allowed anything to be shot there except for one brief thing, the three days that they'd allowed in the 40s.
		They had steadfastly turned down everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And the owner of the hotel, I got the script to the owner of the hotel with a note saying, you know, please read this and you'll see that your hotel is going to be one of the stars.
		And he called me and he said, yeah, we'll do this.
		And so it was a magical time for everybody.
		We all knew that it was very special.
		And Jane and Chris, when they've been interviewed over the years, have always had a very, very special place in their heart for this movie because we know the lives that it's affected.
		We know how many people have fallen in love through its spell, whose vows have been renewed through its spell, who have been brought into a sense of the eternity of love, the idea of soulmates, which began in a very smaller way in Somewhere in Time and then was really the basis for the entire film of What Dreams May Come.
		And that's why Richard wrote the two books, his companions, but we'll get to that later.
		Jane and Chris have a great, great love for Somewhere in Time and for all of the people who are so passionate about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I also have a great passion for time travel.
		And so it hit me on both counts.
		I am married to my soulmate.
		There's no question about it.
		Boy, she's my soulmate.
		And when she saw it, she had the precise reaction I did to it.
		And you're right.
		Both of these films are all about soulmates.
		And of course, at the end of Somewhere in Time, if you're not crying, then you haven't been watching.
		And I don't go in for what usually my wife dubs chick flicks, you know, and some people would say it's a chick flick.
		Well, it's not.
		It's an everybody flick somewhere in time.
		And at the end, gee, the ending of that movie.
		Is it still, it seems like I saw it recently Running, I don't know, on HBO or Cinemax or Showtime or one of them.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, they always, from time to time, will run it because they know it has such a passionate following.
		It still rents, you go into most any video store, it's still there, it still rents the soundtrack, which was sadly one of the things that I think was under recognized about the movie because John Berry wrote such an amazing score, such an extraordinary score for somewhere in time.
		And it wasn't appreciated right away either.
		And now I know they still sell a lot of those soundtracks every year, and it has become a perennial for the people who love it.
		It does cast that spell, and I think that what's underneath that is the fact that we're all looking for that special person.
		The people who have that special person, like you with Ramona, myself with Catherine, and everyone else that we know that has that, you cherish that, and this reminds you of that, and it brings you closer.
		And people who don't have it so much want to have it.
		And I think there's a powerful link, actually, between Somewhere in Time and What Dreams May Come in many different ways.
		And one of them is everyone would like to believe that the person that they love and the person who loves them would travel through time and would go through anything to be with the person they love.
		And What Dreams May Come is actually going through literally the pit of hell to redeem your wife's soul.
		And somewhere in time, it's about traveling through time to redeem your love.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the same thread, really.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, same thread.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Love.
		Love is right.
		What dreams may come.
		Now, the world was ready for what dreams may come.
		I interviewed you on Dreamland, I had not yet seen it.
		And you were trying to describe it to me and trying to describe what dreams may come.
		Not exactly what I would call an easy thing to do for somebody who's not.
		Well, right.
		And it is a movie of a man who crossed through heaven and hell to be with the one he loved.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess that's the easiest way to do it.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and has, when I read the galleys for that book, which Richard gave to me during the entire making of Somewhere in Time, he said, this is my new book.
		And I remembered that so vividly because I stayed up all night.
		I read the book.
		I cried.
		I read it again.
		I cried.
		I went over to him and I said, Richard, we made a handshake deal on Somewhere in Time.
		Let me make the same deal with you on What Dreams May Come.
		I promise you I'll get it made, and I promise you it won't take three years.
		It didn't take three years.
		I was right.
		It took 20.
		And it began this tremendous saga.
		And the thing that connected to me in What Dreams May Come and connected to me so powerfully is that all of the great love stories, all the great love stories, are based on the obstacles between the lovers, starting with Romeo and Juliet.
		And every movie that you've ever seen, the obstacles between the lovers are the linchpin upon the power of the film.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why 20 years?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How could it possibly take 20 years to get that together?
unidentified		Well, I'm slow, for one thing.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		I'm a slow learner.
		I have a slow learning curve.
		There were a lot of reasons for that.
		Most of them dealt with the industry and the world being ready to take the next leap.
		There have been a lot of films that have taken place for five minutes or ten minutes like that in an afterlife.
		And as you remember, for instance, in Heaven Can Wait, you know, it's white clouds and things like that.
		This entire film takes place in the afterlife experience of the main character.
		And being able to visualize that, number one, and number two, being able to have the consciousness that an audience would be ready for it, has taken a long time.
		And we had to find the right script, which took a while, the right writer, and we found this extraordinary writer in Ron Bass who wrote this amazing script.
		We had to find the right director who would have the courage to take it on.
		There were a lot of directors over the years who were intrigued by what Dreams May Come.
		But when I would talk to them, they would say to me, you know, Steve, I just don't know how to visualize it.
		I don't know how to do it.
		And Vincent Ward, who directed the film, is this extraordinary New Zealand visionary director, came in and said, fellas, I know what to do.
		We're going to put him in his wife's paintings.
		And it'll be like handrails for the audience to go into the afterlife.
		It'll make him comfortable.
		It'll make them comfortable.
		And we said, Vincent, that's a great idea.
		Can we do that?
		He said, yeah, we can do it.
		And we said, well, do you know how, Vincent?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He said, no, I wouldn't have known.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		But we'll figure it out.
		And so that was kind of the key.
		I think, and as I said, the world wasn't ready for it.
		We're so much as a humanity today more ready to look at what it really might mean to be human.
		And you mentioned at the beginning that in 1994, 95, when Barnett and I got together and we formed Metafilmics, which is Metaphysics and Film, it was the synergy of Barnett and I coming together and saying, okay, we're going to be consciously spiritual people.
		We're going to have a consciously spiritual film company, Metafilmics.
		We're only going to make these kinds of films.
		When we set that intent out there, me getting together with Barnett was the thing that clicked everything over and which allowed us to then actually go out and be able to put the film together.
		And the world started to be ready to look at things like this and say, okay, I'm willing to go there to see what I really might be like.
		And that was the difference.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think people's thinking is changing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And maybe it's well that you did not put this movie together 20 years ago because it would not have flown.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		No, it wouldn't have flown.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And frankly, the technology, and you're right at the beginning, you did win the Academy Award for Visual Effects, and the guys that created this under Vincent's director.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I thought.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It says your nominations to Academy Award nominations, but I remember your winning for Visual Effects.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		We did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I stood up and screamed.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Sal, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So did we.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		We were very proud of those guys because they really had to create a technology that had not been done before.
		You can't create nature in a computer.
		It's the one thing that you cannot do.
		Because leaves and water and things like that don't, if you completely do a CGI computer graphics, the human eye knows that that's not nature.
		So it was the conceit of this to actually go out and shoot in nature and then do all of the computer graphics after it.
		So literally everything had to be hand-painted by artists.
		And for those of your audience that have seen What Dreams May Come, when Robin Williams goes into that painted world, there are 54 shots in that painted world from the time he wakes up until the time the world becomes real.
		And each one of those shots wind up costing $250,000 to be able to affect because of the sophistication of the technology.
		And what's so funny about all of that is that I'm telling you, within a year, you'll be seeing that on commercials on television.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe you can explain to the lay person, and I'm sure one of those when it comes to films, how Robin Williams was able to do the interaction with what would later be combined with these incredible visual effects that I have no idea how you did.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, because I can tell you that, because what Robin was in nature, we shot those sequences primarily in Montana.
		And what happened is, to try to put it in the simplest form, is that Robin and the dog and Cuba and all of that was shot on legitimate locations in the way you would shoot anything out in nature.
		Then what happened is that the technology that was employed is it was called a LADAR, which is laser and radar camera, was brought in after we left the location.
		And it would map in an extremely complicated, computer-like way, all of the geography that we shot, every single angle of everything.
		Then the original film and that technology was taken back to the Visual Effects Company, put together, what's called composited together.
		And then when a radar map and a computer map was actually made of everything we did, they took the natural shots and then started literally hand and computer painting every single frame so that the paint strokes were actually applied on top of what was really a tree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I've done all that, but what I mean is when you were on location with Robin, how did you translate to him and communicate to him what it was going to be so that he was doing the right things in Montana?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, he saw all of the drawings.
		You know, all of the actors knew exactly all of the drawings and all of the concepts.
		So they knew what Robin knew is that when he was walking along the ground that his feet would be actually making paint smudges.
		He knew that when he fell into that pile of goo, that pile of paint before he meets Cuba, that that was all going to be paint.
		all the actors knew what they were going to be seeing what we would eventually be seeing on the screen before they did it.
unidentified		It's not like when...
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And basically they have to react to nothing and then it's projected onto that screen.
		and that's how you create visual effect.
		These actors all were dealing, basically, they were dealing with nature.
		They were dealing with flowers and water and trees and things like that.
		So we just enhanced it.
		We didn't have to create it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you were able to sit down with them beforehand, show them what the end product was going to be, and with the aid of the real thing around them, the beauty around them, and, oh, boy, there's some beauty in Montana.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there certainly is.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		It's spectacular.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As a matter of fact, it must have been nice to be out of the studio and on location in a place like that.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was great fun.
		It was the first part of the film we shot it there, and then most of the rest of it was shot in these huge hangars, abandoned hangars in San Francisco on Treasure Island.
		You know, the end of the Cold War was one of the greatest things that ever happened to the movie business because a lot of these army and naval bases have been decommissioned, and they have these enormous hangars and spaces that are not useful for anything, and now they're being used by movie companies where sound stages are not as big and they're much too expensive,
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, that was an awfully big risk in a lot of ways and a career difference for Robin Williams.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did he approach this story?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		That's a really, it's a wonderful story.
		The movie we knew was going to be very expensive.
		And through the help of a wonderful man named Ted Field, who owns a company called Interscope, we approached Polygram to finance the film.
		And they were willing to do it, but we needed a movie star to front the film because they would not put up that kind of money unless they had a big star.
		And it was really kind of a universe of one because we sat down and said, okay, look, who can we have in this movie?
unidentified		We need to have somebody who will take the audience into the afterlife.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		We need a fantastic actor, but we need an actor with great personal presence with the audience that the audience trusts.
		There were a lot of unique things, and it really kept going back to Robin, Robin, Robin.
		So we made Robin the offer.
		We held our breath.
		You know, usually it takes weeks when you hear something like that.
		Two days later, we get a phone call saying Robin wants to meet.
		And again, usually when you sit in those meetings, particularly with someone of Robin's stature, it's like, well, you know, I like the script, but I want you to change this.
		And if you'll do this, then maybe I'll think about it and I'll see you in six months.
		Well, we go into the room with Robin, and he sits down and he says, fellas, I got two things to tell you.
		One, I'm in.
		I'm doing the movie.
		The second thing is, I'll play all the parts if you want me to.
		Really?
		He just jumped into it with both feet.
		And we were off to the races.
unidentified		So he bought the entire concept.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he bought the whole thing and basically said, you know, I love this script.
		I love what you're doing.
		It's going to take a long time.
		And it did.
		It took us a year to prepare the movie.
		It's going to take a long time.
		I've got a couple of movies to do in between.
		But I'll be there.
		And let's make the deal.
		And then we went about the process of casting the film.
		And we got Cuba right after he won the Academy Awards, which was very, very fortunate for us.
		And again, we had a search for the woman.
		There was a lot of talk about having a movie star play that role, but a big movie star.
		And we really thought we wanted to, again, find an actress who could play the range in that film.
		You know, there's a lot of controversial parts of What Dreams May Come, a lot of controversial parts.
		The fact that we made a huge film that all has as its basis, we create our own reality, both in life and in the afterlife.
		That's a big concept for a lot of people to accept, that there is no such thing as a real world that you walk around in, that life is an illusion, and everything that you do in it is your own creation.
		And we knew that we had these things.
		That was one.
		Certainly the suicide aspect of it has been very controversial.
		And we can talk about that more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do want to talk about that.
		I want to talk about the reference to God, too, the singular reference.
		My guest is Stephen Simon.
		You know Stephen Simon.
		You may not know that you know Stephen Simon, but you do.
		And if you've been listening, surely by now, you're quite well acquainted with Stephen Simon.
		If not, keep listening.
		We've got lots to talk about.
		I'm Art Bell from the High Desert.
unidentified		is Coast to Coast AM.
		Holy Spirit.
		and I'm here for you.
		I'm here for you.
		Or they choose a driving machine.
		And we'll be standing in the dance.
		Holy creator.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the Toll-Free International line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And my dad, Stephen Simon, who is responsible for so much of what I love.
		He has done so much good work.
		We're talking about what dreams may come and somewhere in time.
		I'll, of course, that's not all he's done by a long shot, but he never did another thing.
		He got my attention, that's for sure.
		We'll get back to them in a moment.
unidentified		Music And now, back to the best of Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, Stephen Simon.
		Stephen, I'm going to tell you a very brief story about a young lady that I had on the program whose name was Sarah.
		And Sarah had a near-death experience, which was the most remarkable I've ever heard about in my whole life.
		Sarah was a young lady.
		She was a church volunteer.
		She was on her way home from that volunteer work at church riding her bicycle.
		And she was hit from behind by a vehicle doing about 55 or 60 miles an hour.
		She was thrown several hundred yards in the air, broke just about every bone in her body.
		You know, her life signs all stopped.
		She barely, she's still recovering, actually.
		But she had this most incredible NDE that was detailed over a couple of hours in which she went to a place that contained both what we would think of as heaven and definitely what we would think of as hell.
		Kind of an interesting, if you ever get the opportunity, we have the real audio accounting of that.
		You can actually hear her tell the story up on my website, but it was, boy, oh boy, was it something.
		And of course, that is what dreams may come dealt both with heaven and hell.
		One thing I wanted to ask you was, there was only one reference in the movie that I recall to God, and it was very short, and it was, there was a question about God, and I think the answer was, he's up there, or he's there, or something like that.
		Do you recall?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
		Robin asks Cuba, where's God in all of this?
		And Cuba looks upward and says, oh, he's there, smiling down at us, shouting down at us that he loves us and wondering why we can't hear him, you think?
		That's fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, how much debate was there about how much of this?
unidentified		How long have we got?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		When you're going to do a movie that entirely takes place in the afterlife and deals with everyone's beliefs, the debate is extensive, long, and unending and heated.
		I bet.
		And the conversations about every single word in that film were very, very in-depth, and there was a lot of passion on all sides.
		And, you know, when you're the producers like Barnett and I were, you know, you're kind of at the center of all of that.
		And it was very important for us to have the movie have a very strong, central spiritual vision.
		And the spiritual vision was, in this afterlife, in this afterlife experience of this character, the rules were, you create your own reality.
		And we felt that that covered everything because if you are a fundamental Christian, then your afterlife is going to reflect your beliefs.
		If you're a Jew, it's going to reflect your beliefs.
		We think the world gets into trouble when any group comes along and says we are the only truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's not going to be your way.
		You're all mistaken.
		You're all wet.
		In fact, unless you convert to our way, you're doomed to a fiery hell.
		I think you're right.
		It can only be everybody's own concept of what heaven or hell would be.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		But we didn't want to exclude God because we felt that that would be inappropriate as well.
		And so what we really wanted to do was talk about this afterlife as not being heaven because truly it was not heaven.
		It was his creation of what his life would be like with his wife.
		And there was a lot of controversy, again, about talking about your own reality.
		I've had people come up to me, I had actually this happened to me at a birthday party, and say to me, gee, I loved your movie, but the thing that really disappointed me in this spiritual movie is that you had all those Judeo-Christian visions of hell.
		And then literally three minutes later, I had somebody come up to me and say, God, the thing I love most about your movie is that you had no Judeo-Christian visions of hell.
		So everybody sees their own film, but hell was not hell.
		Hell was not a universal hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hell, actually, in your movie, was the opposite of where Robin was.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		But it was her creation.
		And it was all their creation.
		It was where she went.
		And before you took the break at the top of the hour, we were talking about the controversy about the suicide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And yes, this movie has a lot of controversy about the suicide because Robin's wife, in grief over his death, does take her own life.
		And she'd lost her own children before.
		And it's explained to him that she has created this hell for herself in which she's going to be replaying these visions for eternity.
		And he goes out and down in the terminology of the movie to find her.
		But the truth of the matter is, we got a lot of controversy about, well, suicides go to hell.
		No.
		That's not what we said.
		What we said is that she chose this for herself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And his love redeemed it.
		And again, I've had people say to me, you know, you guys are inhuman monsters for creating in people families that had loved ones commit suicide thinking that they would be in this kind of torment.
		And then we've had people come up to us and say, God, we've run suicide prevention centers.
		We've had young people who have tried to commit suicide before.
		And we've sent them all to see this film.
		And they have a completely different understanding of what human life is like.
		And, you know, I think when you want to do something on, again, on the edge, on the spiritual edge of humanity, you're going to engender passion either way.
		And frankly, I would rather make a film that people either loved or absolutely hated than make a film that was kind of like in the middle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, Stephen, I've interviewed a lot of people who have had near-death experiences and have claimed a lot of things.
		But one common thread in all of them is that they have a life, a full life review, and they, in effect, judge themselves whether it would be to go to the place where Robin Williams did or his wife did.
		It all fits.
		In other words.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, this is all based on research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		What Dreams May Come actually was the genesis for that idea with Richard Matheson was that he had done a tremendous amount of near-death experience research, and he had done it for somewhere in time.
		And then when he had the idea for What Dreams May Come, he wanted to do something about a love story in the afterlife.
		And what was striking to him, and you read it in the literature, which is voluminous, What Dreams May Come may be the only novel ever published, maybe, I'm not sure, that actually has a bibliography as a novel.
		And it has an extensive bibliography of the research into near-death and afterlife experiences.
		And what Richard found, which is what caused him to write the book the way he did, is that all around the world, people who have near-death experiences relate primarily the same experience.
		Not exclusively, but primarily that they feel this beckoning light, that it's very pres, you know, it's very comforting, that they go through a tunnel-like experience, that their loved ones are there.
		The only people who do not relate that experience are people who are revived after suicide attempts.
		And they tell a very different experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or they don't talk at all.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Or they don't talk at all.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Most times they don't talk at all.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And that's why Richard thought, aha, that's a great idea for a book.
		And that started off the whole idea of what dreams become, which then, as you know from seeing the film, went into a lot of other areas of what does it mean to be alive?
		What does it mean to be human?
		I think, therefore, I am.
		And all of the kinds of things that I think people, as we get within now, just 100 or so days of the year, or whatever it is, at the end of this millennium, people are asking themselves questions, okay, much of the media tells me that as a humanity, I am depraved, I am greedy, and I don't care about my fellow person, and I'm not really good as a human being.
		Is that true?
		Is that really true?
		What does it really mean to be human?
		Why are we here?
		What are the definitions of success?
		And if we have a second here, I want to tell you the most extraordinary thing that happened with What Dreams May Come.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We do.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Because of all of the stories, of all of the things that happened, it was the thing that had the most powerful effect on us.
		When I say on us, on Barnett and myself.
		The opening weekend of the film, you know, we were very involved, as unfortunately, we all get with money and grosses and how much did it grow and how are we doing and what are the critics thinking.
		And Barnett's wife, Sandy, and my fiancé, Catherine, were saying to us, guys, you know, you have to think of a different definition of success because you guys have a metaphysical film company.
		It can't just be about money.
		And they were totally right, and that's exactly what we were thinking.
		And then along came this wonderful story.
		We get a phone call from the distributor, one of the distributors of the film in the Midwest, that there is a man in Milwaukee, and he certainly allowed me now to use his name, a man named Chuck Weber, who had a daughter, a 17-year-old daughter who had terminal cancer.
		And she was dying literally within days.
		And she had seen the trailer for the film and really wanted to see the film, but was too ill to get out.
		And very quickly, and Polygram was fantastic about it.
		We got a cassette made.
		And those of you who know anything about piracy and stuff like that know that studios are terrified of doing this.
		But everyone was so touched by this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They put them under guard.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, absolutely.
		And they made this print.
		We got the tape out.
		We got it by messenger and by courier to these people in Wisconsin, to the Weber family.
		And I left a message on their home machine saying that I hoped that it would do some good.
		And I didn't hear anything for about two weeks.
		And then Chuck called me and told me about the last three days of Amanda's life.
		And Amanda was 17, died of a very rare form of cancer.
		And she had been very brave, but at the end, she had a lot of fear.
		And she was home.
		It was really within a couple of days of her passing.
		And they got the film, and she had a bunch of her friends in from high school, and they all watched it together.
		And Chuck told me that as he watched his daughter watch the film, he saw her fear disappear.
		And she became completely at peace.
		And the next day was a beautiful fall day in Wisconsin.
		She wanted to be taken out to a park.
		She wanted to see all the colors, which she connected to the afterlife colors in the painted world and what dreams may come.
		And she really let her dad know that she now had a frame of reference for when she died.
		And then the next day she did pass very, very peacefully.
		And when Chuck related this story to us, he basically said, you know, this film made the entire difference to the last two days of my daughter's life.
		And since, Chuck has become a very, very, very close family friend.
		A lot of Amanda's things were sent to our daughters, Carrie, who's 19, and Heather, who's now 13.
		And he sent things to our sons, Eli and Danny.
		And the families have become very, very close.
		And of all of the things that happened with What Dreams May Come, that's the one that will always stay in my mind because we now have a new definition of success for what we do with our filmmaking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boyd had some story.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he's an extraordinary guy, Chuck.
		And my guess is if he's not asleep, he's probably listening in Milwaukee.
		And if he is, I want him to know how much we love him.
unidentified		I would imagine the film would have done that for a lot of people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Surely, after a film like this that's seen so widely, that grosses $100 million, you get a lot of reaction.
		You get a million letters.
		You get a position.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We do.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		A lot of them very positive and a lot of them very negative.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you find that the negative mostly came from fundamentalist disciplines?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		No, actually, we were very, very, very surprised.
		We actually thought that organized religion would have a lot of problems with the film.
		And they didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They didn't.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And actually, we really were very careful.
		We really did not want to fall into a trap of making a film about the afterlife and have it be anti-religious and everything else, because we're not.
		If you're a metaphysician, which we are, you believe in and respect everyone's truth.
		And I respect Buddhism and fundamental Christians and everyone else exactly the same.
		I totally respect their belief system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Although, a lot of fundamentalists will say that big tent speech just doesn't work.
		It isn't a big tent.
		It's a little bitty tent.
		You better come through this little bitty tent or else.
unidentified		You know what?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		I understand that, and again, you can't be a metaphysician and not respect other people's feelings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Agree.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		If that's what they feel, I respect that.
		I don't share it.
		Where I have a problem is if they try to, anyone, anyone, including me, tries to make somebody else believe that I have the truth.
		There is nothing in What Dreams May Come or in any of the work that Metaphilmics has done or will do in the future that is going to say we have the answers.
		We have no answers.
		We have a lot of questions.
		A lot of questions.
		And that's what we hope.
		What we hope will happen is that people will see these films, will see dreams, will see Conversations with God, which we're in the process of preparing now and other things that we're doing, and walk out and say, all right, now I want to talk about this.
		And they'll talk to their friends.
		I remember walking out of previews of what dreams may come, you know, 40 minutes after the film were finished, and we would see people in the parking garages having heated arguments.
		This one loved it, this one hated it, this one thought this was right, this one thought this was ridiculous.
		And we looked at ourselves, Barnett, and I said, God, we've done our job.
		You know, we've started a dialogue, again, about our humanity.
		And that's what we want to do.
		so there were the mail then reflected exactly the same kind of great but it was not really I think they understood what we were trying to do.
		The people who had the strongly negative reactions to it were really principally people who felt an enormous amount of pain because of the suicide angle, having had families, members that had committed suicide.
		And that's something that I can only say I completely understand and completely respect.
		And I can feel that.
		And what we always tried to say to them was, look, it is the position of the movie that that is a choice made by every individual, and love can overcome it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And not only that, but there is no, according to the movie, the way I read it, there was no automatic sentence to any hell at all.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If the suicide had been for some horribly selfish reason, then one might imagine that person, according to the way your movie was laid out, might create their own hell, but they were not automatically sentenced to any hell.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, Cuba says that very specifically.
		There are no rules.
		There are no judges.
		Everyone's equal.
		It's just the way things work.
		And she made a decision that that was something that she was going to play out.
		That was something that she was going to do.
		We had a very different ending for the film, which, by the way, is available on the DVD.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you know what?
		I've got the DVD.
		I just went out and bought the DVD.
		Oh, good.
		And you're telling me there's a different ending on it?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		The original ending of What Dreams May Come is actually we include it on the DVD.
		It's not finished because we never finished all of the effects.
		And it was a very, very different concept.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're kidding?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Very different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll ask you about that when we come back, which we will shortly, and we'll also get to the phone shortly.
		My guest is Stephen Simon, the man behind so much of what I love that has appeared on the silver screen and now, of course, at home.
		I'm Art Bell.
		is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		music
		If you could read my mind, love, what a tale my father could tell.
		Just like an old-time movie about a ghost from a wishing well in a castle tower or a fortress strong with chain upon my feet.
		You know that ghost is here that I won't ever be set free as long as I can't see.
		To rechart bells in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Stephen Simons, who's doing something in the film industry that, frankly, I wish more of the film industry was doing.
		And maybe now that he's had a smash hit, $100 million, smash hit, maybe there will be more, and that's something we'll ask about.
		And also that alternate ending.
		That's certainly intriguing.
		So we'll get to all of that in a moment.
		If you have questions for Stephen, we're about to go to the phones.
unidentified		The End.
unidentified		And now back to the best of our bells.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Stephen Simon, welcome back.
		You said there was another ending.
		What a shock.
		Another ending to what dreams may come.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		When we originally envisioned the film, and you know, this happens much more than people think happens in movies.
		You know, when you see a movie, you think, well, that's what they planned, and they planned that from the beginning.
		More often than not, there has been a lot of reshot footage because you think something's going to work and then you show it to an audience and you realize that it didn't.
		And we had an ending on that was much more extensive and went much more into the karma of Annabella's suicide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And the decision that she made to be reborn into a life where she would have a certain karmic debt that would be a result of that and Robin's choice to go back and be with her.
		And they are originally, in the original ending, were reincarnated as a small boy in Philadelphia and a little girl in Sri Lanka that were going to get together through various circumstances.
		And when we previewed the film, we realized that the ending was much too long, much too complicated, and that the journey had been so difficult and emotional and intense for the audience that we needed to do something with the same general idea, which was to do the reincarnation, which we knew we had to end the film with, but to do it in a different way.
		And again, to give the people at Polygram so much credit, they allowed us to go back and spend another couple of million dollars, even though we had already spent a lot of money to go back and do the ending right.
		And we're much happier with the ending on the film than we were with the original one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I love the way it ended, and I'm dying to see the original as well now.
		That's really interesting.
		Listen, I have a personal selfish question.
		I am indeed going to the Grand Hotel for the reunion.
		I've never taken an action like this for any movie ever in my whole life.
		My wife has found a really good 1912 costume for herself, but boy, try to find one for a guy.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		I guess I'm going to go through that, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where does one look for a 1912 costume?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, even Christopher in the movie really had a bit of a problem with that.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
		My guess is, Art, and I don't know these people, so I'm going to give them a plug, but I don't know anything about them.
		I don't know if Western Costume is still in business.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Western Costume.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		But there used to be a company in Los Angeles called Western Costume.
		And you could go get basically anything from any period of time from them.
		I don't know if they're still around, but that was certainly in the back of my mind, to be able to do that as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's at least one lead.
		I suppose I can try going on the various search engines and just put in 1912.
		I don't know what I find.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, people seem to what Art's talking about for the listeners is that on the Saturday night of the Summer in Time weekend that is done the last weekend in October of every year at the Grant Hotel where we shot at the fan club, takes over the whole hotel.
		They actually do a 1912 ball and dinner, and everyone comes dressed in 1912 costumes.
		And I guess we're going to take our shot at that and do our best.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's exciting to know you're going to be there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When did you make that decision?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		I actually made that decision.
		They've asked us, they've been very nice.
		They've asked us to do this every year.
		And for various reasons, as I told you, I haven't really wanted to do it for emotional reasons.
		And this year, because of having Catherine in my life, I really decided that this was the right year to do it.
		And we made that decision about, I think, about four or five months ago.
unidentified		Best of Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		May I ask, what was Catherine's...
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, fortunately for me, Catherine had already seen it.
		She'd seen it.
		Now, Catherine is a fellow traveler in these areas.
		As I mentioned, she has a magazine called Holistic Health Journal, which totally deals with issues of health, but also emotional health and spiritual health and well-being and things like that.
		She is very much a part of this entire thought process and living process and experience process that we're all going through.
		So she had already seen the film, fortunately for me, and we didn't, but we both had a very strong connection with it.
		And she was the one that really said to me, well, when the summertime weekend comes up again, let's go.
		You know, let's go do it.
		And now that she's in my life and such a positive influence in my life, that's what I'm going to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's going to make it a really special one, then.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it will.
		And I'm very much looking forward to it.
		19 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		19 years.
		All right.
		There are some calls.
		And also, I want to ask you.
		By the way, I never knew you did Smoky and the Bandit.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can't take credit for producing Smoky and the Bandit.
		That was done by a man named Mort Engelberg.
		But I was running Raystar at that time.
		And when the script came in, I was its champion.
		And we got it made at Universal.
		And that's what got Ray got Ray promoted me to being the head of the company.
		And I must tell you, it seems like that's Stephen Simon the first thousand years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that kind of launched you, didn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, anytime you spend $4 million on a film and gross $200 million, everybody listens.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I should say one thing before we go to the phone so that we don't get some irate phone calls from Somewhere in Time fans who, because I've heard this before, that there's some guy named Stephen Simon going around masquerading as the producer of Somewhere in Time when that guy's name was really Stephen Deutsch.
		And I have to say to people, it's one and the same.
		My name was Stephen Simon when I was born.
		My father died when I was four, and my stepfather, who was a wonderful man, adopted me.
		And when What Dreams May Come, after all these years, finally got approved through this synergy with Metaphilamics and my partner Barnett, I decided to go back to my birth name of Simon because it felt to me like a proper acknowledgement of my heritage.
		So there is a difference because Stephen Simon is the producer of What Dreams May Come and Stephen Deutsch is the producer of Somewhere in Time, but I'm the same guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just one more thing.
		They're lined up to talk to you.
		They have questions, but I have just one more.
		Producing these kinds of films.
		It's a good thing, Stephen, that you do.
		And there's a lot of filmmaking going on that's not so good, and there's a lot of controversy about it.
		And a lot of people are saying, well, it contributes to violence.
		There was just a survey done that seemed to suggest the exact opposite.
		The American people now are beginning to not think of films in the way they have been in recent years as contributing to the deterioration of our society as we see it all around us right now.
		So that's changing a little bit.
		What's your take?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, a couple of things.
		Yes, making these kinds of films is different.
		And we are in a process right now.
		It is a challenging thing because these kinds of movies, what most people call fantasy films, what I consider to be metaphysical, spiritual films, 2001, Field of Dreams, Heaven Can Wait, What Dreams May Come Somewhere in Time, and there's this whole long litany of them.
		We are, at Metafilmics, we are really crusading to have these films be recognized as a genre.
		And what we've really become convinced about, and we are actually right now in the process of raising $20 million for our company so that we can be completely independent of the entire Hollywood structure, because we really want to be able to do these films with a certain degree of integrity so that we don't have to sacrifice them to the kind of homogenization process that goes on when you're trying to appeal to everybody.
		What Dreams May Come does not appeal to everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it doesn't.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And what happens with most of the Hollywood movies today, and it's not because these are bad people running the studios, because by and large, and I know it may surprise a lot of people, these are very decent, well-meaning people to a great extent, but because of the corporate takeover of Hollywood over the last 15 years, there is a lot less entrepreneurship and a lot less looking to the future, like saying, hey, movies for the internet is the future, guys.
		I mean, we're going to be doing that real soon, and there's going to be hundreds of millions of dollars made, and there are going to be movies that never get any distribution other than the internet.
		And these movies about people looking at, again, what does it mean to be human?
		These kinds of things that are happening as a result of the millennium consciousness is happening.
		This is the growth.
		This is the future.
		We can't do that within the system that we have now, and that's why we're becoming independent of it.
		As far as the, we can't do it on a consistent basis.
		We got Dreams Made.
		We're doing other things as well.
		As far as this debate that's going on right now, the film business has traditionally not led anything.
		The film business, if you look back through history, has basically reflected what's going on in society.
		And it is my belief that that's the same thing that's going on now.
		I think that a lot of these violent films that have been made, which have certainly contributed to a lack of love, a lack of respect, and a lack of empowerment in the society, would not be made if people weren't paying and going to see them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the argument made is that it desensitizes people to violence to the point where young people simply sort of begin to accept that.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And I completely agree with that.
		This is a terrible paradox that we live in.
		We live in a country that has the First Amendment, which is unique.
		Very unique.
		And it is what makes us unique in the world.
unidentified		Sure is.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		As Winston Churchill once said, democracy is the worst form of government ever devised by man, except for all the others.
		It's a tremendous paradox.
		And people don't feel comfortable in the middle of paradox.
		People like to have to solve it one way or the other.
		And the truth is, we do have the First Amendment.
		We need to respect it.
		But as an industry, we need to take responsibility for what we do as individuals, as filmmakers, and say, look, we should not be doing this, whether it makes money or not.
		There are other ways to make money.
		But as far as the government coming in and saying, okay, you can't do it, then what happens?
		What is an acceptable level of violence?
		And who then decides what that is?
		I think a lot of the stuff that gets made is really, really damaging, not only to young people, but to people across the board in desensitizing them against violence.
		And I don't like personally, I don't like those films.
		But again, I don't want somebody saying to me, look, you can't make metaphysical films.
		I don't want to say to other people, you can't make violent films or you can't make this.
		We just need as a society and as an industry to be more comfortable living in the paradox in between.
		You know, to use a strong example of the last couple of, the last several years, people found it really difficult to accept for those people who believe that O.J. Simpson was guilty of murdering his wife, that O.J. Simpson was this tremendously engaging, warm, wonderful, fantastic, charismatic personality who also might have been a really cold-blooded killer.
		People wanted him to be one or the other.
		They couldn't stand the idea that he was both.
		And we live in a society where we have the First Amendment.
		We need to have freedom, but we need to not exploit it.
		And that is an individual personal responsibility, again, for creating your own reality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I couldn't have said it better.
		The same difficulty is rampant on the Internet right now.
		In other words, on the one hand, you've got this all-important freedom of speech First Amendment thing.
		And on the other hand, you've got accountability, screaming for accountability about some of the things that are done up there.
		And the balance is so delicate and so difficult.
		If it goes too far in one direction, we're going to lose what we consider to be so precious and bring on exactly what we don't want, some sort of regulation or law that will begin to infringe our freedoms.
		So we must be responsible on the internet and with filmmaking.
		It's really the same.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've come to that place, I think, in the evolution of human society that freedom does not necessarily mean that you should always do it.
		And how much is enough?
		How much is enough money to make what does it really mean to be happy?
		What does it really mean to be successful?
		Just simply because you can do something, does that mean you should do something?
		Those of us who have had teenagers know that when teenagers get to be a certain age, they have the power to do things.
		And what you hope is that they have the judgment not to do all of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stephen, your reaction to this, you have been incredibly successful.
		To what do you attribute that?
		I mean, there must be times when you sit down and say to yourself, how the hell did I do it?
		Did I have help from somewhere else?
		Was I just incredibly lucky?
		Am I so talented that I did all this myself?
		Well, wait, introspection.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Look, let me tell you something, Art.
		I have been the head of three different film companies and have been fired from all three jobs.
		I've made more movies that haven't made money than movies that have made money.
		You know, to quote the wonderful Jerry McGuire character, the Dickie Fox aging character that kept coming in, you know, in truth, in life, I've failed as much as I've succeeded, but I love my life, and I love my wife, and I wish you that kind of success.
		Again, what is the definition of success?
		I'm not a wealthy man by any stretch of the imagination, not in any way.
		I've had my problems along with everybody else.
		It is often difficult at times to make a living.
		But I have a passion in my life, and I have people who love me and who I love in my life, and I have a direct through line to my life.
		I see what my life is about.
		My life is about my family and my friends and the people who love me, and in my work, it's about trying to illuminate parts of the human condition that empower us and enlighten us.
		And that at times we're going to succeed, and there are times that we're going to fail.
		But my success in life is not, in my own estimation, determined by whether I make money or whether I don't make money.
		It's how I feel about myself as a human being at the end of the day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is nice to do something that you love doing and then end up getting paid for it.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, listen, those people who have read the Celestine prophecy, you know, that is one of the precepts of the Celestine prophecy that we are all getting to a place where we will have the capacity and the ability to make a living doing what we love.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		You love doing what you're doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do dearly.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And you have the ability to be able to do it and to be successful at it.
		And more and more people are getting to that place in life.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very quickly, first time caller line, you're on the air with Stephen Simon.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, how are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in Salt Lake City, Utah.
		Okay.
		I'm originally from northern Michigan, so I have a strong tie to somewhere in time.
		And by the way, Art, I think it is Mackinac Island.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		It is Mackinac Island.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's Mackinac.
unidentified		I guess I said Mackinac first and people said, no, no, no, it's Mackinac.
		Well, you don't want to be known as a fudgie.
		I was just going to say that there's definitely not a fudgie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mackinac.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sorry about that.
unidentified		That's okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'll never get it right.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		What the caller is talking about, Art, is that basically the principal profession on Mackinac Island for tourists is making fudge.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And almost every other store that you walk in on the main street is a fudge store.
unidentified		And that's what your caller is talking about.
		So we used to buy the fudge too, but we did it with sunglasses on.
		Anyway, I did see the movie originally in the theater while I was a senior in high school.
		And it had a major impact on me.
		I think that's one time I can remember actually sobbing at the end of a movie.
		And I've always wondered why it didn't do better with the critics.
		You know, I'll open up the critic books and, you know, do you think it's because, you know, I've seen the movie.
		Gosh, I have it in every format that it's made in, and I had the soundtrack when it first came out, too.
		Do you think it's because the story really couldn't be figured out?
		I mean, why does he always stay young and she's old, you know?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		No, I actually don't think that's why.
		I think that, and I think again, there's an understandable reason for this.
		I think that most critics, now, we have to differentiate critics here.
		There are electronic critics, the television press, and there are print critics.
		The print critics are basically a very cynical group of people.
		Now, that's not their fault.
		You know, they're forced to watch 150 movies a year.
		And most of the movies that they see are pretty bad.
		I mean the truth is we don't make as many great movies as we make movies that are mediocre.
		And they get inundated with constant cynical themselves, constant cynical kind of filmmaking.
		It makes them turn off.
		And I think that when you see something that is genuinely hopeful, they basically suspect the motives behind it.
		And a lot of them are not comfortable with it.
		Bless his heart.
		Gene Siskel was certainly not that way.
		Roger Ebert is certainly not that way.
		The television press tends to be different.
		I think as far as the critics were concerned with Summer in Time, and Chris at one point told me this, he really thinks that they were kind of, quote, waiting for him, unquote, after Superman.
		All press likes to build people up on their way up, and then when they get there, they like to knock them down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It hits so.
unidentified		Well, that's unfortunate, because I think it just really was an incredible, and still is an incredible movie, and I've always recommended it to anyone who wanted a good romantic love story.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, I appreciate that, and I also appreciate the fact you saw it when you were in high school.
unidentified		That was very good.
		I really did.
		And two movies made me cry at the end.
		One was Color Purple, and the other one was Summer in Time.
		But I just wanted to say thank you very much.
		I was really surprised to hear that you were on tonight, and it's been many years that I've wanted to find out more about that movie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, my friend.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate that.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got to go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, Stephen, you good for one more hour?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you bet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll stay with you the whole time.
		All right, done deal.
		Stephen Simon is my guest, and we'll be right back.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell, and this, of course, is Coast to Coast A.M. Take my bed.
		I said no one can take your place.
		And if you get hurt...
		music
		I see trees of green red little trees.
		I see them blue from me near.
		And I think to myself, what a wonderful callbell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First drivers may rechart at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the Toll-Free International line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nigh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly what it is.
		Steven Simon is my guest.
		We're talking about a couple of...
		But what dreams may come?
unidentified		I see Princess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somewhere in time.
		They're just incredible.
		It's like what I do on the radio, he does on film.
unidentified		I feel free to strongly do.
unidentified		I must be lost, you know, I must know, and I will know you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I think that's where the synergy comes from.
unidentified		We'll get right back to it.
unidentified		And now, back to the best of Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's funny, when I go out to the Facts Machine, I find questions that have simply just been answered.
		Somebody wrote another love story in the afterlife movie with Meryl Streef and Albert Brooks in Defending Your Life, which was a very good movie.
		And he goes on to say, this is Frank, in Hollywood of all places, in the DVD release of What Dreams May Come, there's an alternate ending where the two characters are shown reincarnated in Sri Lanka and Pennsylvania.
		What led to the selection of that ending that was used instead without reincarnation actually being shown?
		Was there a big discussion about that?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, as I said, we realized when the film is in front of audiences that the ride was a particularly intense one, and that once we had the reunion in what we call Summerland, that we did not want to go back on the ride again, and that we wanted to give the audience a real emotional release and have there be a synergy at the end.
		And the reincarnation is actually very specifically mentioned because they talk about doing it, and then you see the little boy and the little girl at the end of the film, and you know that's the two of them.
		So that's what happened.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I've got to get to my audience.
		Ease of the Rockies.
		You're on here with Stephen Simon and Art Bell.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Mr. Simon.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		I'm Eric Kirsty, calling from Knoxville, Tennessee.
		But I saw What Dreams May Come about a couple months ago, and I was amazed at how good this film was.
		It was even more amazing that finally Hollywood's starting to let the special effects assist the movie instead of be the movie.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, good, yes.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate that.
unidentified		Yes.
		But the main reason why I was calling is I'm 15.
		I plan to be a movie director.
		And I'm always reading all these how-to-make movie books and books on movie history and about some of my favorite movies and such.
		And I just wonder if you could give me any guidelines on where to get started or what kind of jobs to go to to help me out or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there you go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you say to a 15-year-old who wants to be in your business?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's start here.
		If you have the passion in your gut, you'll make it.
		It's that simple.
		People try to discourage people from getting in the movie.
		They say, Oh, it's too difficult.
		There's too many people.
		That's a bunch of baloney.
		If you have the passion inside of you and you really feel that you're not going to be happy in life unless this is what you do, then you'll find a way to do it.
		If you want to be a director and you're young, start with a video camera.
		Make movies.
		Get a video camera and start making your own movies.
		Find some place that you can edit them.
		Make home movies.
		That's how Spielberg started.
		And then if you want to go to school, one of the great things that's happened in the United States over the last 10 or 15 years is that there's been an enormous proliferation of film schools, which are no longer theoretical film schools.
		They actually teach people how to be filmmakers.
		And they're all over the country.
		There are literally dozens and dozens and dozens of them.
		And it's easy to find, and that's certainly a way to do it if you want to do that through college.
		If you don't want to do that, and you have the capacity to do it, then I would urge you at some point or another, once you get out of high school, and if you decide not to go through the college route, to go to Los Angeles, come to Los Angeles, which is really still the filmmaking capital of the world, and find your way, which is not difficult to do because it's all over the place, find your way into production companies, into agencies.
		You go to the Director's Guild.
		They have an apprenticeship program that they take people on.
		It is not a tremendous mystery.
		What separates people from the people who succeed and the people who don't is not so much talent, although talent is enormously important, it's will.
		It's truly will.
		You have to have the fire in your belly.
		If you do, you'll make it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying it can still be done today.
		In other words, in this atmosphere of the new corporate reality in Hollywood that we have, it's got to be harder than it was once.
		Or maybe not.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, in some ways it is.
		But at the same time, there is a large independent film community and television now, particularly with the proliferation of all of these cable channels.
		And as I said, with the vision of the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Internet, the HANA.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		The Internet.
		And, you know, that technology is already there.
		There's a company called Siteson.com that owns all the technology to putting movies over the Internet, and they've already done it.
		I mean, they've already put a movie on the Internet.
		And I actually saw it on a computer.
		And if you think that television and films are now big, wait until the country is wired and people have high-speed either cable or high-speed ISDN lines and they can download movies off their computer in five or six or seven minutes.
		The explosion is going to be enormous and there will be a lot more films that will be needed.
		And if you're 15 years old, you're coming in at just the right time if you really love it.
		If you don't, don't try because it's too compelling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are already early indications that stars are born on the internet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look at Matt Drudge.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look at Matt Drudge.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Stephen Simon and Arpel.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, how are you guys doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just fine, sir.
unidentified		Calling from San Diego.
		I have a request, a suggestion, some comments.
		I'll end with two quick questions, but no Zappa quote this time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you guys doing?
unidentified		Go ahead.
unidentified		First of all, my request would be if you're going to film something along the lines of Summer and Time or what dreams may come in the near future, I would strongly request and urge you to cast Salma Hayek as the ingenue, the heroine, while she's still in her prime.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		A man with good taste.
unidentified		Oh, my goodness.
		I think I'm quite a film death, and I think I've got a pretty well-rounded view of some of the films throughout, you know, from the 30s to the present, and I cannot think of a Hollywood actress that is more stunning going back to the 30s.
		My suggestion would be if you're going to, or if you've already put this film company together focusing on metaphysical films, I think a perfect book that should be brought to the screen would be Robert Anton Wilson's Illuminatus Trilogy.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you know, isn't it?
		Now, if I'm not mistaken, if I'm not mistaken, that is the basis of The 13th Floor.
		Oh, is it?
		And that's a terrific movie.
		I had nothing to do with it, absolutely nothing to do with it.
		It's a film that I think, unfortunately, was not terribly well marketed and has some unfortunate problems within it on vis-a-vis the casting.
		But people who love this kind of filmmaking, it's gone, unfortunately, from theaters, but it'll be on video, I'm sure, relatively soon.
		And I believe that that is the basis for the 13-4.
unidentified		Well, when I saw What Dreams May Come, before I heard you way back on Arts Show and found out that you were responsible for both Summer in Time and What Dreams May Come, I mean, I immediately flashed on Summer in Time.
		And then when I heard you, I can't remember how many months ago it was, it all made perfect sense.
		I'd say in my top ten films, those are the only two romances that I can think of.
		And I think that what I like about those films, I would imagine in songwriting and film writing, film, script writing, those are two separate creative genres.
		But to write a romance and not have it come off as schmalty or overly sentimental is extremely difficult.
		And there's no part in either of those two films that ring untrue.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		I thank you on behalf of Richard Matheson, who wrote the screenplay and the book for Somewhere in Time, and Richard and Ron Bass, who wrote the screenplay for What Dreams May Come.
		And I wince a little when anyone says that I was responsible for it because I can tell you that, and I do not say this with any false modesty, it's just the truth.
		Filmmaking is such a collaborative medium.
		Oh, yeah.
		No one, I mean, my partner Barnett and I and all of the other people, I have myself a little bit of a problem when I see a credit saying a so-and-so film as a director because I think in some ways it really discredits all of the people who contribute to it.
		But on behalf of all the people that contributed to all of these films, I thank you.
unidentified		Well, it's certainly a collaborative process and it is a testament to the writing and the direction.
		In this list of films that I would include, Summer in Time and What Dreams May Come, I mean, to give you an idea of some of my tastes in films, which I think are pretty broad or eclectic, Usual Suspects, Grand Canyon, there's the elemental, the metaphysical, but there's also these are films that challenge your intelligence and they're not predictable.
		They have twists and terms.
		My two questions that I was going to end with, obviously, it sounds like Richard Matheson is still alive then.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he very much is.
unidentified		So he did get to see 20 years later.
		But as I said, please don't wait 20 years for Selma.
		Are the books still in print?
		And my last question would be, Art, I think there was a listener that called right around Halloween, not Halloween, excuse me, Thanksgiving of last year, who actually faxed you and said some connections between the book Somewhere in Time and something about the book that Christopher Reeve, the character in the film, gets and how that circuitously is based on an actual book of...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he actually carried that book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when I talked to you earlier, Stephen, I was talking about the prop book, Bidtime Return.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I understand now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ding, ding, ding, right?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		I got it, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And somehow that got out, and it's up on, it was, at least it was, for auction.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		You know, I will tell you a quick anecdote about somewhere in time, which you'll appreciate.
		The very first day that we were shooting on the island, we shot the scene where, oh my goodness, I'm forgetting.
		It's late, and I'm forgetting.
		She's going to have to forgive me the lady's name that played the old woman in the movie.
		I know her last name is French, and I'm blanking.
		Unfortunately, it was 20 years ago.
		Who gives the watch to Chris.
		And she's such a terrific character, this woman.
		It's a dramatic moment.
		She says, come back to me.
		The very first take of it.
		And it was a very tense moment because we're really starting to think.
		She puts the watch in Chris's hand and she says, get this fixed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding.
unidentified		And we all cracked up, and that was that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where is the watch?
unidentified		You know, actually, I had that watch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You had the watch?
unidentified		I had that watch, and it disappeared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It disappeared?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		I had that watch, and it disappeared.
		And I'm not going to make any more of it than that.
		I'm just going to say that it disappeared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we'll leave it at that.
		Oh, my.
		First time caller line.
		You're on the air with Stephen Simon.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Oh, hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks, Gard.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Susan French.
		Sorry, I just want to forgive the actress.
		Her name is Susan French.
unidentified		Sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Susan French.
		Call her, hold on one second.
		You know who she reminded me of?
		She reminded me of the old lady in Titanic.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, she does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of similarities in the character.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Portrayal.
		Okay, first time calling her line.
		Now you're on the air.
unidentified		Awesome.
unidentified		Sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stephen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to have to yell at us, or I can barely hear you.
unidentified		Is this any better?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		I actually can't quite hear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can't either, right?
unidentified		Does that matter at all?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Get right so your lips are touching the phone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I've got them right up against the now you're cooking.
unidentified		Terrific.
		Stephen, I just happened to pick up the divix of somewhere in time the other day and very impressed with it.
		And as I'm watching it, something came to mind, a book that I once read from an author called Jack Finney.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Time and again.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Time and again.
unidentified		Was the idea from the time travel from that book?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
		Actually, Time and Again.
		Jack Finney and Richard Matthewson always had a kind of a running, laughing thing about this.
		Time and Again and Bidtime Return were published right around the same time.
		And actually, Time and Again was being developed by Robert Redford at Universal at the same time we were developing Somewhere in Time.
		And it was kind of a race one against the other because we kind of knew they weren't going to make two time travel movies at the same time.
		And fortunately for us, we got out of the gate first, and then they just kind of abandoned Time and Again.
		And I don't know if Time and Again was ever made.
		I have a vague memory that maybe a TV movie was made out of it, but I'm not 100% sure.
unidentified		Well, I have looked high and low for a movie on Time and Again.
unidentified		I think it's got potential for a great big screen movie.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		It's a wonderful book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Thanks for the information.
unidentified		I appreciate it.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		You're more than welcome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		Wildcardline, you're on the air with Stephen Simon.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good evening, Mr. Bell.
		Mr. Simon.
		Hi.
		My name is Bill.
		I'm calling from the great state of Texas, listening to you on KGFK art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Mr. Simon, I just want to say how much an impetus for changing my life your movie has been.
		And again, I won't say your movie, but the movie.
		It was an excellent, excellent film.
		And I can't tell you how many times we've had little coffee table chats here in Austin about this movie and about the implications for the fact that we've come to believe we really do make our own reality and most likely make our own afterlife.
		I want to ask you a couple of questions.
		First of all, have you ever seen Groundhog Day?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
unidentified		Is it just me or when Bill Murray starts to play that Ragmoninoff theme?
unidentified		Is that kind of a Somewhere in Time thing going on there?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		You know, I actually don't remember that.
unidentified		I don't remember it, but I hope so.
		We all thought it was Somewhere in Time.
		I saw Somewhere in Time when I was eight years old.
		Wow.
		Oh, my God.
		Yeah, my dad pretty much forced me to watch the first five minutes of it, and then I was completely glued to it when he sees that penny, and my heart just sank, and it continues to sink.
		And I was just recently married, and we went to Maui for our honeymoon, and we were at a video store in Maui, and this girl comes in and asks the guy at the front desk if they have this movie called Somewhere in Time.
		And the idiot says, no, no, I've never heard of that movie before.
		And I almost slapped him right there.
		I helped her find it.
		And she ended up renting it before the end of the night.
		The question I want to ask you, first of all, was was it your decision not to further develop the relationship between the parents and the children prior to the afterlife scenes where Robin Williams is reflecting back on the conversations with his son and with his daughter?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, none of those things are ever one person's decision.
		That's a joint effort on behalf of the producers, the director, and the writer, and the financing entity, and the actors.
		It's a very hard thing to say one thing.
		That was something that we talked about a great deal.
		And we really decided not to do more of it, simply for the sense of the pacing of the film.
		And originally the film started off the way it was originally written.
		The film actually started off with the car accident.
		And that the entire, all of the relationships with the children and with his wife were done in flashback and kind of in a very disjointed way to give the audience the sense that the main character had, which is jumping around in time.
		We found it was very confusing for the audience.
		And so we actually re-edited the film to make it much more linear.
		And we did have a lot of conversations about should we do more with the family.
		And ultimately for reasons of pacing and for reasons of the mystery of the film, we decided not to.
		But there was a lot of conversation as to whether or not maybe we should have.
unidentified		That's really interesting.
		And the second part is for both of you to speculate on.
		Mr. Bell, I've listened to your show for quite some time.
		And I'm really, really fond of it.
		My therapist says not to listen because she thinks it's a reason for my panic attack.
		But I just wanted to ask you, I've listened to your shows about the afterlife and near-death experiences for quite some time.
		And one of the things that occurred to me and kind of my circle of friends that I talked about your show with on a regular basis, one of the things that we kind of decided was is that it's not so much what happens during the near-death experience, but the part of what makes people...
		the question about whether or not people return and those that stay, we've come to think of the afterlife experience, the near-death experience, as kind of a play that's put on for the person that's experiencing it.
		And that the afterlife, excuse me, the near-death experience in and of itself is judgment.
		And the judgment occurs when the person says, as beautiful as this place is, I love those that I've left behind too much to allow them to live without my presence.
		And that, in fact, would be the judgment.
		But the judgment is made when they say, you know, as beautiful as this place is, I have to give it up to go back with my family because they need me really...
		they need me more than I need to be here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's been the theme in so many near-death experiences that have been described on this program.
		And, hey, caller, one thing for you.
		We're going to a break here real quickly.
		I have panic attacks all the time.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stephen Simon will be right back I'm Art Bell this is Coast to Coast AMA If you fall, I won't catch you.
unidentified		I'll be with you.
		Time after time.
		If you're lost, you can look and you will find it.
		Time after time.
		If you go, I won't catch you.
		I'll win.
		We'll be waiting long time with no peace of mind.
		I'm ready for the time to get better.
		I I've got to tell you, I've been racking my brain, hoping to find a way out.
		How bad enough is continual rain?
		Changes with coming, no doubt.
		To recharge bells in the Kingdom of Nyai, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stephen Simon is here, responsible for, along with many others, many, many films.
		Somewhere in Time, What Dreams May Come.
		Two of my all-time favorites, and I mean all-time favorites.
		We'll get back to him in a moment.
unidentified		And now back to the best of Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		interesting question for steven um steven just a curiosity um you will i'm sure attend a number of hollywood functions and uh Really?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But occasionally.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Much fewer than you think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At least occasionally, right?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Occasionally, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if at one of them you should happen to be in the middle of some sort of function and some really old lady came up to you and that watch that you now don't have and put it in your hand, I wonder if your heart could handle it.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
		I really wonder.
		I actually think it probably could because I think that my life would have been a training for that.
		I think my only problem would be at that point, Catherine would ask me why I'm going off at that old woman.
unidentified		And I would have a hard time to answer it.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, honey, there are things we never talked about before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess I better explain it now.
		Hey, listen, here's a question for you.
		What was the date on the penny?
unidentified		1979, I believe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1979.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		I believe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you guys decide on that scene?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That scene was so awesome.
unidentified		Well, that was a part of the book.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that was Richard's idea, you know, that the whole conceit of it is that he wills himself into the past by taking everything from the present out of his sight and out of his consciousness, again creating his own reality.
		And that when he, you know, that the only way to get him back would be to have him find something that he took with him inadvertently.
		Now, there's a great numb, you know, mind twister here that no one could ever figure out.
		If anyone can come up with the answer with it, good for them.
		Where did the watch start?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where did the watch start?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		You know, about that point, your eyes start rolling around in your head.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		That's right.
		Where did the watch start?
		We'll let the audience work on that one.
unidentified		Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Stephen Simon.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Steve.
unidentified		I was wondering what year the movie you made, Somewhere in Time and Heaven Can Wait, was produced and started showing in theaters.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, Somewhere in Time was produced in 1979 and came out in October of 1980.
		Heaven's Gate, now when was that?
		Heaven's Gate was right around that time, but I think it was a little bit a little bit before that.
		It was in the late 70s, I think, but I'm not 100% sure.
unidentified		Okay, though, and where can I find these movies at?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, Summer in Time, I've been both those movies, Summer in Time and Heaven's Gate can both be rented.
		Summer in Time, I know, is available in all of the, you know, at Blockbuster and Hollywood Video.
		They always have it.
		And I don't know about the smaller video stores, but I would imagine most of them do because Summer in Time has turned out to be quite a favorite on video, and I think it's pretty much around.
unidentified		Cool.
unidentified		And also, I'd like to know your viewpoint on what happens after you die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, all right, a personal viewpoint.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, this is my personal feeling, and it has no sense of truth to it or anything else.
		It's just my own feeling.
		I do believe that we go through, I think that it is a non-physical experience.
		And I believe that we do go through a review of our lives from a very objective standpoint without the ability to rationalize.
		And really realize what it is that we as a soul, as a being in this lifetime have learned.
		And what did we come to this life to learn?
		And did we learn that lesson?
		Have we evolved and grown?
		And, you know, then becomes the whole question of do we then come back again?
		And do we want to come back again?
		Do we feel like we need to come back again and learn more in our evolution towards wherever it is we are evolving?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do we have a choice?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		I believe that we do.
		I believe that we have some choice.
		But I think, again, the choice is made from a standpoint of, you know, our soul is this eternal being that has this, you know, extraordinary light and resilience to it.
		And whether that's completely our choice and what our means is that, you know, I believe that we are all multi-part, multi-dimensional beings.
		And what is the choice?
		I mean, by which part of us, you know, when I say without the ability to rationalize, it always reminds me of that wonderful line in the big chill.
		And I think it's the Jeff Goldblum character is challenging Bill Hurts, saying, you know, the ability to rationalize is a lot more important than sex.
		And Bill Hurts says, no, that's not true.
		And Jeff Goldblum says, I can prove it to you.
		Have you ever gone a day without a rationalization?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's very good.
		All right.
		Well, let's move a lot so many people.
		First time caller line.
		You're on the air with Stephen Simon.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hey, greetings, Art.
		This is Mark Diorio calling you from a very hot Mammaronick, New York.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Mammaronick, New York.
		My fiancé and her whole family are from Buffalo, so I'm very conscious of that.
		And actually, our 89-year-old grandmother is probably still listening in Buffalo at the very wee hours of the morning.
		So hi, Grandma.
unidentified		Well, I hope she has some air conditioning.
		Yeah, I'm usually not on the phone at this time of night because I chat on IRC about our show and listen at this time.
		But my ISP is down tonight because of the heat.
		So it's a chance to call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, I was in my own IRC chat room yesterday.
unidentified		Oh, very good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you missed me.
unidentified		Very good.
		Well, I'm on Undernet.
		We're a little weirder over there on Undernet.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		No question.
unidentified		Steve, I want to ask you, you had some really great source material to work with on these two movies, being Richard Matheson books.
		I'm 47.
		And Matheson has always been a big part of my life, going back to I Am Legend and, of course, his Twilight Zone stories that were adapted for The Twilight Zone.
		Let me ask you, what are the difficulties in adapting a novel to movies?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		It's a terrific question and something that is not often addressed.
		They're completely different delivery systems.
		The novel is always the personal experience of the viewer, of the reader, excuse me.
		And you can insert yourself into any character that you want and envision yourself as such.
		When you have a film, it has to become very specific to the actor or the actress that's playing the role.
		So you don't have that kind of freedom.
		It's a very different kind of a delivery medium.
		Reading is all in your imagination, and you can imagine anything.
		Filmmaking is really in the visual imagination of the director and all of the technicians that are actually making the film.
		And it is much more specific, much less to the imagination and more practical than novelmaking.
		And this is why most people say, well, the movie wasn't as good as the book.
		Well, you can use the unlimited sources and resources of your imagination when you're reading a book.
		And when you're watching a film, it is a much more specific experience.
		And when you're reading a book, you may envision a character in, you may envision yourself or someone you love or someone you know or someone you hate as a character.
		When it's in a film, it is personified in one actor who's playing that part.
		And if you didn't foresee the character as being that way, then you don't love the book, the movie as much as you love the book.
		And there are very few exceptions to that.
		Certainly The Godfather being one of them.
		I mean, you know, I think everyone kind of acknowledges that that was a movie that was at least as good, if not better, than the book.
		But most people, a lot of people have a problem making that transition.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For me, Stephen, it's kind of like the difference between radio and television.
		Radio is still the theater of the mind, very much.
		And television is like the movies, specific.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Very specific.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, there are very, very, very few novelists who can make the jump and go back and forth between being screenwriters and novelists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was about to say, what happens generally when a novelist comes on the set?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, they end up ripping their hair out, don't they?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, again, it depends on whether or not they understand the grammar, the film grammar that we've just talked about.
		There are several people now writing.
		I mean, John Grisham, for instance, never tries to adapt his material, his own material.
		There's always writers who adapt his material.
		And he understands that when you adapt a novel, you adapt a novel.
		And you have to make certain changes within the novel.
		For instance, and What Dreams May Come is a good example.
		In the novel of What Dreams May Come, when the wife commits suicide, the children are still alive.
		It's a big change.
		And it was always an enormous problem because we always had the question of how are you going to create sympathy for a character who has a husband who's passed on and in grief commits suicide and leaves children behind.
		It was a big problem.
		And Ron Bass came up with a solution of having the children pre-decease them and then be able to use them in the way that we did.
		And to his everlasting credit, Richard Matheson, who is one of the truly great, and I mean great gentlemen of the world, when he read the screenplay, called Ron and said, you know what, if I thought about that when I was writing the book, I think I'd have done that too.
		And most novelists are not so egolist that they would admit that.
		And a lot of people who are writing books also today have the understanding, you know, look, it is an adaptation.
		If I like the movie, I like the movie.
		If I don't like the movie, I don't like the movie.
		I always have the book on the shelf.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, coming from radio, I sit here in my little Wizard of Oz studio in my home, very comfortably ensconced, loving what I do.
		I ventured out and did a little bit of television, appeared on a couple of NBC shows, and I absolutely was terrified.
		Here I am doing my little thing alone, and I got onto a set, an NBC set, which was a radio station.
		I was playing self, right?
unidentified		And I have never, people have no idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the movies, there's even more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The amount of people that are required to produce this, the logistics, the eating, the catering, the camera people, the sound people, the groups, all these people, it scared the hell out of me.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is a different experience.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
unidentified		Sheesh.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		It is a different experience.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And usually on most films, you'll shoot a 12-hour day, and at the end of that, you'll have gotten maybe three minutes of usable film.
unidentified		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		As a matter of fact, on Dark Skies, on NBC, I was in a scene with about 12 or 13 other people.
		And they're particularly difficult scenes because the dialogue is fast-flowing, and it takes just one of those people to blow their line.
		And it's a reshoot.
		So we spent all day doing this thing that aired, and it was about 45 seconds long.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is a tremendous amount of fun, as I said before.
		If you have the fire, if you really love it, my youngest daughter, Heather, who's 13, has this fire in her belly to be an actress.
		And a lot of my children have had, all of my children have had, at one time or another, that interest, and then have kind of lost it.
		Heather has it, and she's not going to lose it.
		It's something that she is going to pursue, and I am going to help her with because I know that that is something that she could not live without trying.
		If you just think it's fun and you just think it'll be a great lark, it's just, as Art said before, there's just too much rejection involved in doing these types of things, and people are going to get discouraged and stuff like that.
		If you have the fire, it works.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to be prepared for a good portion of a lifetime of rejection because that's usually what happens.
		For example, in my case, I starved to death for a lot of years in radio, the way a lot of people in radio do.
		And I did not become an overnight success until about 30 years had passed.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's the case.
		And there's a wonderful saying in the movie business, too, that as a producer, you can get very rich, but you can't make a living.
		And it's true.
		You know, if you hit something big, you know, you can make a lot of money.
		But what people don't understand is that, you know, we work along with everybody else.
		We have, you know, financial problems along with everybody else.
		When we work, we make an enormous amount of money, that's true.
		But we spend a lot of time, as you say, getting rejected, having people tell us no.
		And you really have to love what you do to keep going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's the only way.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Stephen Simon.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello.
		Hello.
		I just, this is probably a pretty good segue.
		My name is Henry.
		I'm calling from Kauai.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kauai and Hawaii.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		You want an oppo with a listening earlier than us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on, that was a double.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stephen?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, I said he's one of the few people that's listening that's earlier than us.
unidentified		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's see.
unidentified		It should be about, well, coming up on 11 o'clock in Hawaii.
unidentified		Yeah, that's very close, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, you're on the air.
unidentified		Okay, well, I've written a book.
		It just took me about a year to write, and I was so heavily absorbed in the book.
		I was wondering if when you work on a film, I understand you're working on this new one, Conversations with God.
		I was wondering if, with it being a collaborative effort, you've got so many things going on, if you are able to focus on your next project while you are immersed in the one that you're in.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is a big problem for me.
		And it's an interesting question.
		A lot of producers are.
		I'm in the process in my life of also transitioning where I want to produce, but I also want to direct.
		And I'm finding myself really beginning to focus more and more on just doing the thing that's in front of me.
		It's very difficult if you really love the material and you really love the process to really get deeply involved in more than one thing at a time.
		And we are doing conversations with God.
		We're doing all three of those books, and we're actually developing them for television.
		And again, that's another conversation that if somebody wants to get into, we can talk about.
		I personally tend to really get very focused on what it is I'm doing at the moment and really get immersed in it.
		And it's not a terribly good or beneficial trait for a producer to have.
		Frankly, it's one of my challenges in life as a producer because you really need to keep a lot of balls in the air at the same time because you don't know where they're going to land and you don't know what's going to get made next.
		And I tend to get very focused in on one or two things at a time.
		As a director, as a writer, that's really necessary.
		You really do need to focus on that.
		As a producer, you need to have a lot of different things going at the same time.
unidentified		I see.
unidentified		I was wondering if I could suggest my book for some future reading for you when you do have the time.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, this is something that I actually thought about before we did this interview tonight and anticipating that.
		We get an enormous amount of material, as you might imagine, being very focused on doing just this kind of material.
		People tend to find us.
		It's not that complicated.
		And even though I'm not going to give the phone number out, you know, Metaphilmics is located in the San Fernando Valley in California, and it's not that difficult to find us.
		And if you do find us, we're a couple of months behind in our reading.
		But we do try to get to everything.
unidentified		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you, Caller.
		So many aspiring people out there, and they just really, your advice is the best.
		They just have to have the passion and they have to keep at it no matter what gets in the way.
		And it's one of those things where you're either driven or you're driven out.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And you have to, you know, and I know you've talked about this with yourself.
		It really, you are at a place, I think, in any creative endeavor where you really have to feel that if you don't do that, you don't know what you're going to do in life.
		It's not like, well, this would be a fun thing to do.
		You know, the reason you stayed at radio, I'm sure, is because this is who you are.
		This is what you do.
		And how could I do anything else other than this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, I got out of radio.
		I said I can't take the gypsy existence anymore.
		For six years, I built and maintained a cable company in Las Vegas.
		And, you know, I was getting paid great money, great benefits, working for a big, major corporation.
		And I couldn't stand it.
		I was bored to death.
		I went to my wife at the time, and I said, I'm going to go back in radio.
		And she thought I had lost my mind.
		I took this giant salary cut to go back into radio.
		And I just, I did it.
		And come Helen High Water, I did it.
		And fortunately, some good High Water came along.
		But I don't know.
		I've got somebody to thank for that somewhere.
		I keep thinking about that, Stephen.
		Hold on.
		We're at the top of the hour and we'll be right back.
		Stephen Simon is my guest.
		And we're talking about movies, specifically his and movies in general.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		This, of course, is Coast to Coast AF.
		But I think it's too late for no repellent.
		It's all clear to me now.
		It's all clear to me now.
		Oh, my.
		Call art bell in the Kingdom of Nye from West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First guard covers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		And the wild guard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell, Brombark Kingdom of Naive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Morning, everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stephen Simons.
unidentified		He's here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I am Art Bell.
		This is, of course, Coast to Coast AM.
		And boy, what a question I've got for him.
		In just a moment.
		Let's talk about the internet, shall we?
		Actually, we've been doing that all night long.
		Talking about the internet and where movies are going.
		It's just about where everything is going.
		If we can all keep it together, that's a big if.
unidentified		And now, back to the best of Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, Stephen Simon.
		Stephen, this is really interesting.
		Somebody just sent this to me, and I wondered, could it be?
		It says, art, you know, I was just browsing somewhere in Time sites.
		Apparently, there's an awful lot of sites on the internet.
		And saw that there is supposed to be a direct-to-video release of a sequel.
		Have you heard anything about that?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's inaccurate.
		There have been, excuse me, I dropped the phone there a second.
		There have been conversations over the years, and there have been requests from fans of somewhere in time for us to do a sequel.
		We have actually approached Universal on this issue.
unidentified		Really?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Universal is not interested.
		At least not at this time.
		They have just not shown any interest in doing that at this point.
		So there is no plan to do that.
		At least that I know of.
		Now, you never know, but at least as I know of it, And seeing that I produced the original, I should know about it if it was happening, but I don't know of anything at this point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure how you could do it.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, listen, it really begs the issue of Christopher and Christopher's condition.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And unfortunately, I think that personally for me, I think to do it would be in bad taste.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes sequels shouldn't be done.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think that there is anything.
		The only way I could we've talked about doing it is doing it as a just about it.
		Well, I better not get into that because that involves other things.
		I think that it just, personally, I think that because of what has happened with Chris, it would not be in good taste to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good enough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Stephen Simon and R.F. L. Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, gentlemen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, where are you, ma'am?
unidentified		I'm in Barberton, Ohio.
		My name is Shauna.
		I have a comment and a question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Okay, my comment is I did have a near-death experience, and I was on the edge of hell.
		And believe me, there is no bright, shiny light to look at.
		I've been there, done that, and hope to never, ever see that again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and I've met in my lifetime very few ma'am, and you're one of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you said, you're saying you saw hell, the edge of hell.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
		I was there.
		I was there.
		It was a very horrible experience.
		And believe me, I've completely changed my life around, so I will never see that again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that interesting?
unidentified		I've been there.
		I've done that.
		I've seen that.
		It was horrible.
		It was like a roller coaster ride with screaming and laughing.
		And then it was screaming and crying.
		And it felt like I was falling.
		And there was total blackness.
		And then the screaming turned into complete terror.
		And then the person that was doing CPR on my body snapped me back.
		And I was back.
		And that was the end of that.
		And I completely changed my life around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you talk about it right away?
unidentified		No.
		No, it took a couple years before I got the guts to admit what happened.
		See, I made the mistake of being involved with the wrong people, and I overdosed on some...
		Yes, like a needle in my arm, and I was gone.
		My heart stopped.
		I stopped breathing.
		I was dead for about three or four minutes.
		And the CPR brought me back, and I completely changed my life around.
		So I will never go there again.
		Anyway, my question for Mr. Simon.
		Sir, you mentioned earlier about going independent, and Star Trek, the people of Star Trek and everything, they have really good moral things going for their movies a lot of times and like the condition of humanity.
		And I just wondered if there was any way that you could get the people of Star Trek on board for the independent filmmaking crew.
		So that might give you a really good jump in the right direction.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's an interesting idea.
		They certainly do do terrific work.
		And they certainly put together a fascinating way of being able to do the subsequent Star Trek series.
		And it's an interesting idea, something we should think about.
unidentified		Okay, thank you.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for the call and take care.
		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Stephen Simon.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yeah, good morning.
		My name's Michael.
		I'm in Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Michael.
unidentified		And I have a, actually I'd like to hear a comment on, hello, Stephen.
		I'd like to hear a comment from you on something I have here.
		I'd like to share.
		I'd say a few years ago, the fantasy artist and poet Patrick Woodruff compiled a book of his works called Hallelujah Anyway.
		And there's a line in there I'd like to share and hear your comment on, if I may.
		It's very fitting, I think.
		The line is, Time is an illusion, death is a meaningless fiction, and life is neither more nor less real than any other dream.
		So if you can, choose your own dream.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I think that's beautiful.
		That's a mantra that I would love to see my children live by.
		I mean, we talk about this a lot, and my comment about that is that that completely is consistent with my entire feeling about life, that this life that we live is a grand, fascinating illusion that we project together into and about an enormous human experiment that we're involved with on this planet.
		And when you come to realize, as by the way, science has come to realize, that the expectation of the experimenter has an effect upon the outcome of the experiment when the entire conversation that is going on in the world of quantum physics is about God,
		because they've finally gotten to the point where they recognize that there is this peace that they'll never quite be able to get.
		And when you look at a table in front of you, and again, if you listen to science, and science tells you that that table is not real.
		Your consciousness determines it is real because it puts all those atoms together, but it isn't really real.
		And then you step back from it and say, well, that's if you believe science, because, you know, during the Renaissance, science kind of took over as the arbiter of everything.
		And I think we're kind of going back to a period of time now where there is more balance and people are beginning to look at issues of faith.
		You know, skeptics always say to me, well, you know, you can't prove that.
		And I say, yeah, you're right.
		You can't disprove it either.
		You know, it's just a matter of faith.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's perhaps a casing point.
		You talked about the expectations of the person doing the experiment, perhaps affecting the outcome.
		Did you follow the story of cold fusion?
unidentified		Oh, sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The scientists who, of course, claim to have...
		And they actually had it going.
		And Pons, I believe it was, and Fleshman, I think the names were.
		And then various other institutions tried to duplicate the experiment, some having success, some not having success.
		And that debate goes on to this very day.
		And you have to wonder if that process was affected by those who, and the expectations of those who ran the experiments.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I think, you know, you look all around us in life, Art, and again, we all know people like this.
		You know, there are people who go around thinking that their life is awful and that they're never going to have any luck.
		And the truth of the matter is they don't.
		And then there are people who are just magical manifesters, and it's nothing more than will and intent.
		And when you look at that, you realize that people do actually create their own reality.
		And we're living in a world today when actually there are enough people who believe that, and enough people who are fascinated with it, whether they believe it or not, who are curious about it, that we're going through this enormous evolution in the course of human thought and human belief where we're really delving into mysteries that have at this point always been mysteries.
		And now we're beginning to tap parts of our brain that we've never been able to tap before.
		And phenomena in the world are becoming more available to us, and we're beginning to understand things more, and we're looking inward.
		It is, you know, part of the vision of Metafilmics of our company that after 100 years almost now of filmmaking, almost 100 years since movies were developed, that basically all of the outer landscapes have already been mapped.
		I mean, this is one of the great complaints that people have about movies is, you know, it's the same old stuff over and over again.
		Well, that's because the outer stuff has been mapped.
		It's the inner stuff, the stuff about really the complexity of where we can go and who we can be and the coming technologies where we're literally going to be able to be able to put the audience in the experience of a movie.
		It's called immersion.
		It's a technology that is already being worked on.
		It's already there.
		It's kind of a helmetless version of virtual reality.
		And you'll literally be able to sit in a 150, 200 seat theater, maybe three to five years from now, and literally be a part of the film.
		Not interactive.
		You won't be able to affect the outcome.
		But if there's a scene that's going on between two characters at the beach, you're going to be walking along the beach with those two characters.
		Now, when that happens, when that happens, when that's available, the fascination that we have with violence and things like that will no longer be something that you can stand back from.
		And people will, at that point, I believe, and I had faith in this, will want to go deeper into who we really might be.
		And we're on the verge of all of that blossoming.
		So for me, it's an extraordinarily exciting time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are dangers in that as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm sure you're aware of that.
unidentified		You bet.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		There are indeed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Stephen Simon.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi.
		First of all, let me say I really enjoyed Dreams May Come.
		Thank you very much.
		Yeah, I was really glad that there was a movie like that, Finally in the Theaters.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thank you.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		We're grateful for that.
unidentified		Thank you.
		You're welcome.
		Let me just tell you a quick story.
		I'm in the process now of toying with the idea of actually writing a book about my experiences about fate and destiny.
		When I was 15, I had a dream about two people that would play major roles in my life.
		And one of them actually I met when I was 18, and these are soulmates.
		And have you guys ever seen the movie Made in Heaven?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure.
unidentified		Okay, well, it's kind of like at the end of the movie.
unidentified		I don't know if you've seen this art, but at the end of the movie, when Kelly McGillis and Timothy Hunting finally meet, there's this tinkling sound, almost like china or crystal being tinkling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember it as well.
unidentified		Yeah, and I hadn't seen that movie until much later, maybe around 27, 28.
		But when I was 18, when I met this person, I happened to be introduced to this person, and it was the person that I had dreamt of when I was 15.
		And before I even looked up, everything that happened in that movie about the movement around them and sounds around them that slowed down, everything drowned out around them.
		It was almost as if time slowed down.
		And all the ping coin that was occurring around them.
		That's exactly what happened when I met this person.
		And it floored me when I saw the movie because I knew there was someone out there, there must be someone out there who made this show who either had experience or knew someone who did.
		And it just floored me.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Actually, you bring up a movie that the writers are very, very dear friends of mine.
		The two men who wrote that film are two extraordinary writers named Ray Gideon and Bruce Evans.
		They also wrote the Stand By Me, if you remember, Stand By Me, and they also wrote Starman, which is another wonderful film.
		And I actually, now that you've asked, now that you've brought this up, I'm actually going to ask them whether or not they, where Maiden Heaven came from, because I actually don't know.
unidentified		Yeah, because that movie, that just really amazed me because exactly how it happened, I thought, you know, I wasn't going crazy.
		I knew that it was a real experience and that someone else must have had known about it someplace enough to have put it in the movie.
		And it was just a beautiful experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, people can sit there and say, gee, what a bunch of crackpots listening to all this.
		But you know something?
		At Princeton University right now, they're proving scientifically that the mind can have an effect on a random number generator.
		I mean, they are conclusively, scientifically proving this, that the human mind can sit there and affect a random number generator and more.
		They're doing a lot of work right now.
		So you're right when you say we're going to start looking inward, Stephen.
		And even the scientists are just at least beginning to look inward themselves.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're at a place where we really kind of have to.
		There isn't much left.
		And we really are kind of looking at all of these big issues.
		And if we don't look inward and we don't look to ourselves, there has been so much disillusionment, particularly in the so-called American dream over the last 30 or 40 years that it really has gotten to the point where success has become completely equated with money.
		And that means that Bill Gates has to be the most successful person in the United States, in the world.
		But is he really?
		He certainly is the most successful at being able to make money, but is that really the only definition of success?
		And I think we're all now beginning to look at saying, well, you know what?
		Maybe there's a different answer.
		And that's why there's all over the culture, all over the culture, on radio with you, in books, in movies, in television, in music.
		You know, Madonna's last album is completely spiritual.
		This last album is completely spiritual.
		You have books like The Celestine Prophecy selling millions and millions and millions of copies.
		You got touched by an angel on television.
		You've got films constantly that are asking these questions.
		It's all over the culture.
		This is no longer a compartmentalized thought process.
		It's mainstream.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You, of course, saw Defending Your Life.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and I wanted to comment on that.
		When I said nothing had ever been made in actually realized afterlife settings, I think Albert Brooks would be the first one to admit that what he did in Defending Your Life, which I found to be hysterical, I loved Defending Your Life, was not meant to really be the afterlife.
		I mean, that was comedy.
		It was done in a very simple sense, and it was to be able to tell the story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but it still really had the basic theme of a person judging themselves.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it definitely had that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that still was very strongly woven.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it definitely did.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		It definitely had that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Stephen Simon.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello, Arthur.
unidentified		Hello, Stephen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Stephen, I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm out of Chicago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		You need to get a little closer to base.
		Your phone is humming like crazy.
unidentified		You know, I might have my computer on.
unidentified		That might be doing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		But I'm a talented comedian and writer from Chicago.
		I've written for the Chicago Tribune.
		And I know, Stephen, that you couldn't possibly take ideas from us to you because you'd be overwhelmed by the responses with the listeners to Art Show.
		But as an honor to Art Show, I was wondering if I could give you my email address and if you would let me run a comedy idea for a movie I had past you by contacting me.
		Well, that's up to Art.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		How do you feel about that?
unidentified		I would just give you my email address and you could just contact me and I could run it past you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
		Let's see.
		How could we do this?
unidentified		I've been touched by famous people too.
unidentified		I've done a cable show, a public access show, where Mel Brooks' son, my producer and him, have completed together Mel's son, his first movie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, send me some private email, all right?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I just gave out my email address a few minutes ago, artbell at mindspring.com, so fire me off some email.
		That's what I would suggest.
		As a matter of curiosity, Stephen, how do you handle people gently who come to you with impassioned ideas but they're not quite yet ready?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, honestly, you know, I have found that the two best answers in the movie business are yes and no.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And the worst answer is the answer we usually get, which is maybe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's horrible.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Which is awful.
		First of all, as I say, I always try to qualify everything I say because, you know, this is just my opinion.
		I have made as many mistakes in judgment in this business as I have made good decisions.
		We're all just guessing, and no one knows that there is no truth.
		So this is just one person's opinion.
		And then I will proceed to say, this is why I don't want to pursue this for whatever reason.
		I always have asked people who give us material, and I'll always talk to them first and say, look, if you want us to read this, then I need your permission to give you a completely honest answer.
		Praise, in many ways, is the enemy of the writer, particularly in a very early stage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, tell them the truth.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Tell them the truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good enough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		And in the shadow, every held them down.
		I was a highwayman.
		Along the coast roads I did ride.
		Sword and pistol by my side.
		Many a young maid lost her bottles to my trade.
		Many a soldier shed his lifeblood on my blade.
		The master's humming in the spring of 25.
		But I am still alive.
		I was a sailor.
		I was born upon the tide.
		And with the sea I did a fight.
		I sailed a schooner around the Horn of Mexico.
		I went along the world and made some little clothes.
		And when the ice broke off, they said that I got killed.
		But I'm living still to rechart bell in the Kingdom of Nye.
		From west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		First-time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
		Or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
		To rechart on the toll-free international line, call your AT ⁇ T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kind of a flashback to last night, Willie Nelson.
		That's the Highwayman.
		Morning, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell, and my guest is Stephen Simon.
		He'll be right back.
unidentified		And now, back to the best of Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Stephen Simon, once again, kind of an interesting question for you.
		Stephen, you've made two, actually more, but two very important metaphysical films.
		I wonder if you, I mean, here we are in the last half now of the year, headed toward the end of the millennium, the beginning of something new.
		If you reflect back, how do you characterize where we've been and where do you think we're going?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		You mean as a culture or in entertainment?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, both.
		You said once that entertainment lagged reality.
		Yes.
		So I'll accept that.
		But I mean, what are your reflections on where we've been and where we're going?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, I personally, again, this is my own personal feeling, and perhaps it's a hope as well, that we have been delving into the dark shadow side of our duality for a very, very long time.
		And it's very difficult to embrace and know the light unless you embrace and know the dark.
		And if you deny the dark, that's when tremendous violence happens.
		And what I personally hope and believe is that we're coming to a period of time now where we're going to be able to embrace much more of the light side of our being, which is the creative, magical, positive side of our being.
		I am not one of those that believe that the lack of prognostications of the future of mankind coming to an end in the next 10 or 12 years has anything to do with the end of the world in a cataclysmic way.
		I personally believe that it means it's going to be the end of the world from the way we used to know it and a new evolution of being that is really going to be extraordinary.
		I am a very, very, very hopeful person, and I believe that we're about to go into something really beautiful for those, again, who choose it.
		I think there will be people that choose the dream, and there will be people that choose the nightmare.
		If you believe that you create your own reality, that's where you'll be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's right in line with exactly what you've done.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Stephen Simon.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good morning, Mr. Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there, sir.
unidentified		Mr. Simon?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		To both of you, I appreciate your morning's program.
		It's a wonderful program and quite enlightening.
		And I really, really want to thank both of you for even this 53-year-old man who has seen a lot of life all the way from where I was born in Nazi Germany to Brazil, where I was under a quasi-military government, to this country.
		And I bless this country.
		My point coming is that even at my cynical age of 53, I always like to revert back to that faith-saving aspect of my inner spirit called imagination and romance.
		And to both of you, Mr. Bell and Mr. Simon, I want to tip my hat off to both of you for bringing that, even to those of us who are in our old age, not just for the young, but to maintain that spirit, to be able to write poetry and so on, to have that hope and flicker, to continue with our better side of ourselves, I'll put it that way, and bringing reality and our hopes and dreams and making them come true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is quite a compliment, and that is what your movies have done for people, Steve.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		I thank you for that.
		I'm very moved by it.
		I have one parenthetical comment to make on behalf of both art and myself because we know we're right around that age.
		That ain't old age.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Thank you very much.
		I've actually got a year on them.
		I'm 54 now.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And I was just 53 last week, so we're right around that ballpark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's an interesting age.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a reflective age.
unidentified		It is indeed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you are on the air with Stephen Simon.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		This is Gabriel in LA.
		Yes, sir.
		Stephen, I love what you're doing with your work in the industry.
		thank you the most screenwriter and i focus I'm sorry.
		Sean David Morton?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you heard of him?
		No.
		Well, he was a frequent guest and maybe again.
unidentified		Yeah, I actually produced his talk radio show when he was on another net network until he just left.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you did?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I booked pretty much all of his guests and, you know, helped him out with a few.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was a show similar to this one.
unidentified		Yeah, very similar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, your question was...
unidentified		Well, I was wondering, do you get a lot of Well, that's what Metaphilics is.
unidentified		Oh, Metaphysics.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Metaphilics is the production company.
unidentified		And do you get a lot of scripts piling up there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I sure do.
unidentified		Sure do?
unidentified		Do you have a lot of readers to help you out with the workbook?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, my partner and I try to do as much of it as we can ourselves.
		It's getting fairly unwieldy.
		This is not like trying to read an action movie or a comedy.
		When you're talking about the kind of subject matter that Metaphilics deals with, we're very protective of trying to give everybody at least a proper hearing.
		Unfortunately, most of the material everywhere, and it's not just this kind of material, most of the material everywhere is pretty weak.
		Writing has fallen to a pretty low level in general.
		And that's because writers are not being developed.
		And writing a screenplay is a very, very, very collaborative process.
unidentified		Yeah.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		It really needs nurturing, and there's not a lot of it going on.
unidentified		I don't know if this is the most appropriate way to ask you this, but I could have just called the Directors Guild and gotten your information through them.
		This is probably the best way to do it, too, by the way.
		Okay.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		You decide at the Hollywood Creative Directly.
unidentified		Okay, well, then I'll do it that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, very good, sir.
		Thank you.
		You know, I'm a member of SAG now.
		I had to do that.
unidentified		Oh, good for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I just got a big check the other day for some sort of residual.
		I've never had a 59-cent check before.
		That's true.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Stephen Simon.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		You're trying to spend it in one place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's true.
unidentified		All right, Belle?
		Yes.
		I just say much, I appreciate your show, and I just love listening to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Right now, I'm on 44 in Missouri on my way to Fort Leonardwood.
		Okay.
		I have a question about a movie that's supposed to be coming up.
		Y'all talking about all the way people reflect on movies and all.
		I've always found satisfaction in the history.
		I thought the remake of Gettysburg was one of the most moving because it shows us where we've been and what it took to get where we are today.
		And life is good.
		The roof doesn't leak.
		I'm not hungry, and I don't know what there is to complain about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you want to reflect on a time when there was something to complain about, watch the saving of Private Ryan.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm still not over that motion picture.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, very disturbing.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Very, very disturbing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And unfortunately, rather accurate, I'm afraid.
		Everybody should be forced to watch that at least once.
		West of the Rockies are on there with Stephen Simon.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Yes, good morning, Mr. Bell and Mr. Simon.
		Fantastic show.
		I'm really enjoying it.
		I'm calling from Tucson, Arizona.
		My name is Richard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And I am a crisis and suicide counselor.
		So I deal with some very heavy subjects and some people that feel that there's just no purpose to their life.
		And one of the things that, just a comment here that I try to explain to them, I tell them that's not what they were created for, to self-destruct.
		And then we evolve from that point on to work from within as opposed to working from without, which seems to happen with a lot of us.
		We think it's always external-based.
		Something out there is going to make us happy.
		And so I find that what you're talking about here is really the essence of what's our purpose and what's our passion at this moment.
		And my compliments to you.
		Somewhere in Time was an excellent production.
		It just was a really well-crafted movie.
		In fact, my mom's got it, and I will go back and review that because it's been some time, and John Berry's score was outstanding.
		Thank you.
		The other part here is that Victor Frankl comes to mind.
		I read his book, Man Search for Me, and what was so poignant about Victor Frankl was the fact that you can take everything else away from you in life but the ability to choose what you want to think.
		And he illustrated that in his dialogue in that book.
		One question for you.
		I had rented What Dreams May Come, and I had it for five days.
		I did not see it because I believe it had the R rating.
		I took it to the family and they said we are not looking at R rated films.
		That was TG13.
		It was.
		Okay, then they had it mismarked at Blockbuster.
		I'm sorry, I will go back and get that.
		And I was wondering, why do they put an R rating on such good films when more people could be exposed to it?
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		We talked a lot about the suicide aspect of this.
		I think that you'll find a lot to talk to your clients, your patients about in the meaning of life because a lot of people, particularly young people, and it's a tragedy in our society that there are so many suicidal young people, they really believe that that will end their suffering and end the pain that they're going through.
		And if they really determine that it's not going to do that, that it's just going to make it more difficult for them as they transition and realize that they chose to come here, it can be a very comforting factor because then you can really choose to live your life in a different way.
		And we've had a lot of very gratifying results from that, from particularly young people who have tried to commit suicide before and have seen this film and have really realized that it's not a particularly appetizing option.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've always wanted to ask this of somebody in your business, and that is, the rumor on the street is that if you make a motion picture, which is, you know, perhaps PG-13, if you just throw a scene in to get yourself an R-rating, it's worth X number of million dollars more at the box office.
		It has to be worth less.
		It really.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		And this is one of the nice things that's happening now.
		One of the really, I think, one of the positive things that's happening in our business.
		R-rated movies are very difficult in a lot of parts of the country.
		It has been a very lenient thing in big cities where people who are not supposed to get into R-rated films have been able to get in.
		But it's becoming much more difficult, much more difficult to be able to get into an R-rated film if you're not 17 or literally accompanied by an adult.
		And there is such a huge audience there of people who go to movies constantly, who are 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 years old, that unless the material really demands it, like Saving Private Ryan could never be a PG-13 movie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if you can't, most people who can avoid the R avoid the R. So that was once true and is not true now?
unidentified		Yes, that's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on there with Stephen Simon.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Yeah, my radio's off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good for you.
unidentified		This is Nancy Lee.
unidentified		I'm calling from Hawaii.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nancy, I still hear your radio or something.
unidentified		It's my TV.
unidentified		I guess I'll turn it off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's your TV, all right.
unidentified		Hello?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go right ahead, Nancy.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I'm calling from Hawaii, and I'm a first-time caller.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And I wanted to tell Art that I listen to him every night, and I tell everybody to listen to him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		And I'm hoping that he's going to be Back full-time because there's nobody like him who can take his place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very kind of you, thank you.
unidentified		And I wanted to ask Stephen: I have a true story that happened to me that would absolutely make a fantastic movie.
unidentified		It would change the way people think all over the planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's quite a claim.
unidentified		And, well, it is.
		It happened to me personally, and it's changed my life, and I know that it would help change a lot of other people's lives.
		And I was wondering if there's any way I could get a hold of you to give you this idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, as he has said, we're trying not to give out a phone number or even an address because they are so swamped with stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if you want him to read it, I think his answer was you'll find a way to find him.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		You know, people have, it's not a great mystery.
		You know, there's not a booming film business in North Dakota, so we're not in North Dakota.
		It's not that difficult, no slight meant to North Dakota.
		It's not that difficult to find us if you're meant to find us.
		But what I would really suggest is that you try to find somebody who is a lawyer or an agent or somebody along those lines who can help you get your idea down on paper and get it organized and get it protected from copyright infringements and things like that.
		And then try to find the proper people to read it.
		And if we are the proper people, you will find its way to us.
		I can tell you that we are developing something now that we are definitely going to make that found its way to us by somebody who just heard about us and decided that he wanted to find us, and he did.
		And he sent us a script, and it took us two months to read it.
		And it was one of the few that we've read that we really like.
		And we're actually going to wind up making that film.
		So these things do happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You must have the same problem I do.
		When I was on one radio station for many, many years, I could always read the material I would get, emails or faxes or whatever, letters.
		I could always take care of it all myself.
		Now, I'm on nearly 500 radio stations, and it's all overwhelming.
		And my wife helps as best she can.
		But you know what?
		I still have to do it myself.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's very hard not to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I still have to.
		No, I have to.
		And if I lost touch with that, I'd lose touch with my program.
		I don't think anybody else can do it for me.
		That's not how I got here.
		And I doubt that's how I'm going to stay here.
		So I still have to sort of read about all the, you know, the possible guest material and all the rest of it.
		And read all the nasty letters I get and the good ones and try and decide if it's about the right combination.
		I still have to do it myself.
		East of the Rockies, we don't have a lot of time.
		You're on there with Stephen Simons.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I enjoyed the program very much.
		Been listening to you ever since it's been on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I'm a time traveler.
		Anything you want to ask me?
		You cover just about everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, what a cover.
unidentified		I found out being a time traveler that God is God and Jesus Christ is God, and that's it.
unidentified		And I even preached Jesus to space people on a spacecraft and got very easily let off and thrown back into my body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know.
unidentified		Until 30 years ago, it leaves me in a position where, how come they don't believe?
		How come they don't believe?
		Well, they actually do.
		They told me that Jesus Christ is the Word of God.
		He's not a man or he's not a person.
		He is the Word.
		He is the law.
		And the law is repent because time is so short that you could not believe it.
		I don't think you've got time to make another movie, Stevie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I appreciate the call, but you know what?
		I don't share the view.
		It's kind of like repent now and or burn in hell.
		And I appreciate your point of view and your belief in saying that.
		But I don't share that scary aspect of God.
		No, and neither do I. It has been wonderful, wonderful having you on the show.
		Oh, it's been a lot of fun.
		And you've got a great constitution to be able to handle it for this many hours.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, listen, you make it very easy.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		And just personally, between the two of us, thank you for the music.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're very welcome.
unidentified		Thank you.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		You know, Art plays music for his guests while we're holding on the phone while the commercials are on.
		And the music, I was listening to Stevie Nix, and I listened to Willie Nelson and to some Gordon Lightfoot.
		And if you choose the music, then you and I have the same taste.
		And I thank you for that a lot, and thank the listeners.
		And one last thing I'd like to say to everybody, please follow your dreams.
unidentified		That's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the only way you're ever going to get there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stephen, good night.
steven simon ▲ ● ▼		Good night, Hart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you have it.
		And for the record, yes, oh yes, I indeed choose my own music and have been sort of compiling it for years now to the best of what I love and what means something to me.
		So the answer to that is a clear yes.
		Okay, that's it for now, everybody.
		Tomorrow night, a fascinating program.
		I guarantee you're not going to want to miss.
		And just a little tickler for you.
		On the 27th of this month, there is going to be a paradigm shifting announcement on this radio program.
		I'm Art Bell from the High Desert.

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