Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool

All Episodes

Previous Next

July 6, 1999 - Art Bell

02:41:24

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Hollywood Film Producer - Steven Simon

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Time	Text
	♪ ♪
	Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from West of the Rockies at 1-800-325-7000.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
	of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	To reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them
	dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
	Well, good morning from the high deserts.
	Coming up next, Stephen Simon.
	What a treat you're in for.
	Stephen Simon graduated from UCLA and Loyola Law School, being admitted to the California Bar in 1974.
	He practiced law until being hired by legendary producer Ray Stark in 1976 as Stark's personal assistant.
	Ah, what a trip.
	In 1977, Simon was responsible for the acquisition, development, and production of Smokey and the Bandit.
	Remember that?
	Starring Burt Reynolds, which grossed $200 million on a $4 million budget.
	Boy, movie makers love that.
	He was then made head of production, I can imagine, and supervised the Electric Horseman, a property he acquired and developed for Robert Redford and Jane Fonda, Neil Simon's The Goodbye Girls, starring Marsha Mason and Richard Dreyfuss, and three other Neil Simon projects, Murder by Death, The Cheap Detective, and California Suite.
	I bet a lot of bells are being rung out there.
	In 1979, Simon left Rayshard to produce Somewhere in Time for Universal Studios.
	The film starring the incredible Christopher Reeve and Jane Seymour has become a cult classic.
	It sure is with me.
	It's perhaps my... I don't know, I'm torn.
	He's made two of my favorite movies.
	During the production of Somewhere in Time, Matheson gave Simon the galleys of his newest novel, What Dreams May Come.
	This began Simon's 20-year odyssey to get to what dreams may come filmed.
	And that in itself would be a very interesting story, I would imagine.
	You're about to hear it.
	Simon also produced All the Right Moves for 20th Century Fox, starring Tom Cruise, the smash hit comedy Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, and its sequel, and the Tony Danza comedy She's Out of Control.
	From 1990 to 1993, Simon was president of production for Dino De Laurentiis, Communications, which time he oversaw the international distribution of an eye-opening backstage view of the Madonna tour, Remember Truth or Dare, which was an international hit and an instant classic of the rockumentary genre.
	Other films Simon supervised for De Laurentiis included director Sam Raimi's occult favorite, Army of Darkness, Once Upon a Crime, with John Candy, and Cuffs, a cop comedy starring Christian Slater.
	In 1994, Simon met his new partner, Barnett Bain, and Metafilmx was created, leading to the successful conclusion of Simon's dedication to What Dreams May Come.
	Oh, What Dreams May Come, what a movie.
	When I last interviewed Stephen, I had not yet seen What Dreams May Come, and he was trying to describe it to me.
	I think I've seen it about ten times since, and I'm not somebody who watches movies a lot of times.
	In 1996, Metafilm secured financing for the film from Polygram.
	Filming commenced in June of 97.
	The film released in October of 98 through February 1st, 99.
	What Dreams May Come, folks, grossed over $100 million worldwide and has received two 1999 Academy Award nominations for visual effects and art director.
	And I could be wrong, but I believe that it won for visual effects.
	We'll ask in a moment.
	That's what my memory tells me.
	So, in a moment, coming up, Steven Simon.
	Don't touch that dial.
	Working to achieve non-volatile, human life.
	And now, back to the best of Art Bell.
	Now...
	So many good works.
	Stephen Simon.
	Stephen, welcome to the program.
	Oh, thank you, Art.
	It's wonderful to talk to you again.
	We had you on Dreamland, and you're probably on just about double the number of affiliates that you were on then, so we're probably going to cover some of the same territory.
	Great.
	Let's do it.
	I'm a really big movie fan, Stephen.
	I have, I guess, as many as a couple of thousand movies.
	I collect them.
	But I don't, even though I collect them, I don't frequently watch a movie twice.
	When I first met my wife, Ramona, one of the first things I showed her was Somewhere in Time.
	And I had fallen in love with this film.
	I mean, I just didn't like this film.
	I would watch it again and again and again.
	And I sat Ramona down and she watched it and she had exactly The same experience with that movie that I did.
	I don't think there ever is going to be another movie like it ever in the world.
	It was just, it affected me that strongly.
	Oh, thank you.
	I have never, Stephen, done something because of a movie.
	But there is going to be a reunion at, I used to call it Mackinac before I knew better, at Mackinac Island, where that movie was filmed.
	And it's going to be this fall, and I'm going to be there.
	That's great.
	So are we.
	You told me on the phone that you can't really go home, or you thought you really can't go home again, and so you've never gone to one of these reunions.
	No, I haven't.
	I haven't been back to the island since we actually premiered the film there in 1980.
	So how come now?
	Well, quite frankly, you're right.
	I really have had the feeling you can't go home again.
	That was such a beautiful It was the culmination of me wanting to make this film.
	Actually that book, which Somewhere in Time was based on, is what got me into the movie
	business.
	We can talk about that in a second.
	I have such great memories of it.
	I have had that Thomas Wolfe thing in my mind, You Can't Go Home Again.
	It's such a romantic weekend about such a romantic movie.
	Fortunately for me in my life now, I'm very much in love with a wonderful woman named
	Catherine Miller who publishes a magazine called the Holistic Health Journal.
	We are going to go to that weekend for the first time since I haven't been back there in 18 or 19 years.
	I think it's because of Catherine being in my life and me feeling like I have someone that I love that I can go there with.
	I don't think I could go to the summer in time weekend and not have someone that I love.
	I agree with you.
	I don't think you'd want to go there without Ramona, and I guess it's just the right time.
	You know, three months before the end of the millennium, we're coming up on the 20th anniversary of Somewhere in Time, it's release, which is in October of 1980, and I'm beginning to hear actually a couple of rumbles that Universal may, on a very limited basis, re-release the film.
	Will you surprise me?
	In a few theaters, in a few cities, to mark the 20th anniversary, because, as you may or may not be aware, Somewhere in Time was not a successful film when it was first released.
	It was not commercially successful.
	Why do you think that was?
	Well, it was out of its time.
	You know, this is 1980.
	This is the beginning of the Reagan era.
	It was a time in which an old-fashioned, romantic movie like Somewhere in Time was just not a part of the public consciousness.
	And we, I think, made a serious mistake with the way we distributed the film.
	It was opened in a thousand theaters at one time.
	It's the kind of film that probably needed to be opened in a few theaters and build word of mouth.
	That was 19 years ago, and you could actually still do that.
	It's a lot harder to do that today.
	I think we made a mistake by doing that.
	I think it might have found its audience a little bit better, but at the same time, it probably just was before its time.
	It really wasn't until two things happened.
	HBO started showing movies without commercial interruption, and Some More Time was among the first batch, and they got an extraordinary response to it.
	So they started to show it a lot, and then this wonderful man who worked at Hughes Aviation for many, many years formed this fan club for Some More Time, and it began this passionate attempt to get television stations around the country to play the movie.
	And people began to be aware of it on the basis of cable and of television, and that's how it caught on.
	And most people that you talked to did not see the movie in the theater.
	Very few people have seen it on the television.
	If Somewhere in Time had been released sometime in the last five years, I'll bet you it would have grossed the hundred million That you just grossed with what dreams may come, or better.
	It may very well have.
	You know, it may very well have.
	I never think that.
	You never know with those kinds of things.
	I can tell you this.
	I know if what dreams may come had even been tried to have been made 19 years ago, we would have failed completely.
	Because we just wouldn't have had the technology.
	We wouldn't have been able to do what we did.
	Usually things happen in their time.
	Somewhere in time is a little bit before.
	Tell me about how The whole concept developed.
	By the way, the original book that Somewhere in Time was based on was A Big Time Return, wasn't it?
	A Big Time Return, yes.
	A Big Time Return.
	Written by a wonderful man named Richard Matheson, who most of your listeners are going to remember from being one of the key writers on The Twilight Zone.
	He and Rod Serling wrote most of The Twilight Zone episodes.
	He wrote The Incredible Shrinking Man.
	He wrote I Am Legend.
	He's really one of the great science fiction and fantasy writers that we have in the world.
	And he wrote two love stories.
	He wrote Some More Time, and he wrote What Dreams May Come.
	Some More Time, which was then Bid Time Return, was written and I think originally published in 1975.
	I had always had this tremendous passion to get into the movie business, but the timing wasn't right.
	I went into a bookstore, and a clerk said to me, you know, I know the kind of books you read.
	You've got to read this book.
	I read that book, and I put it down.
	I said, okay, that's it.
	I'm in the movie business.
	I've got to get that book made into a film.
	And I begged my way into a job, literally begged my way into a job with Ray Stark as his assistant.
	And the first call I ever made when I got that job was to Richard Matheson's agent.
	We set up a lunch.
	I met him and I said, listen Richard, I don't know what it's going to take, but I want to make this as a movie.
	Will you shake my hand?
	I promise I'll do it.
	And we shook hands.
	It took three years.
	And we went off to make the film, and the actual making of the film and how that happened is all on the screen.
	I don't know how much detail you want to know.
	Oh, we've got plenty of time for it.
	By the way, did you know that the prop of Bid Time Return is up for auction on eBay?
	I shouldn't say it, because I wanted to bid on it myself.
	That's how crazy I am about that movie.
	Which prop?
	Well, you remember the old lady?
	Oh, you mean the watch?
	The actual...
	Yeah, the watch.
	Oh, no kidding.
	Is that right?
	Yeah, that's right.
	Some of the prompts are up there.
	Apparently, being auctioned, I don't know how people are getting hold of them.
	I knew the universe was having some trouble.
	I didn't think they needed that much money.
	Oh, I think probably they don't.
	I think probably these just sort of leaked out because there's such a passion about this movie.
	There is that.
	I'm so sure.
	I'd love to hear about the The genesis of it, and was there a lot of opposition to it?
	In other words... Oh, yes.
	Again, it was very much out of its time.
	It was a very old-fashioned film.
	It was a very old-fashioned idea for a film, and frankly, was very much inspired by an older movie called Portrait of Jenny, which you may or may not remember if you haven't seen it.
	I would really heartily recommend it.
	Oh, no, I'm not.
	It was a movie in the 40s, and Richard Matheson actually was at the Coronado Hotel, which is where the book was set.
	And he really thought about when he was in this hall of history they have there looking at these photographs of these actresses.
	I wonder if I could go back in time and the book was originally set there.
	We could not shoot there because we could never make it look like 1912 at the Coronado Hotel in San Diego.
	So that was why eventually we found the Mackinac Island.
	But there was a lot of opposition to it and I had just left Ray Stark and had this book in development at Universal.
	And a couple of very serendipitous things happened.
	One, this wonderful director named Chaneau Swark, who directed Somewhere in Time, had just saved Universal a lot of headaches by coming in and doing Jaws 2 for them under very difficult circumstances, and they felt they owed him a favor.
	I've always wanted to do a movie like Portrait of Jenny, and I said, I've got the right book for you.
	So we got Genoa, and we developed this script, and we turned it into Universal, and this wonderful man named Ned Tannen, who was the head of the studio at that time, was deciding whether or not he would make it, and the production executive on it said, well, we've got to give him a list of actors, and we made up this list of actors.
	Two months after the release of Superman I, in which Chris Reeve became this huge international star.
	And Verna Fields, bless her heart, who is our executive, who was an editor and actually won the Academy Award for editing Jaws, said, Steve, you've got to put Chris Reeve on this list.
	And I said, please, Verna, don't put Chris Reeve on this list.
	If you do, Ned's going to say, I'll make this movie only if I can get Chris Reeve.
	I see.
	And we're going to be in line with everybody else in the world.
	Please don't make me do this.
	Well, she did, and of course, Ned did exactly that.
	So it's like, yeah, if you can get Chris Reeve, we'll make the movie.
	He was a really, really hot property.
	Everybody in the world wanted him.
	Well, then the obvious question is, this movie that was before its time, how in the world did Chris view it the same way when he was presented with the script?
	He did, and he was so wonderful about it.
	You know, when you get to be, when you have that kind of material rise, You're surrounded by a lot of people who want to protect you and in so doing protect themselves.
	Sure.
	And his agent at the time absolutely wouldn't even give him our script.
	This is ridiculous.
	It's a little movie.
	He's going to make big movies.
	And frankly, we sneaked into his house.
	I had never heard this.
	And Chris read the script, and we got a phone call through a very disgruntled agent, saying, well, he wants to meet with you.
	And Janot and I and Richard Matheson went to the house that Chris was living in at that time.
	We sat down and he said, you know, everyone's telling me I'm crazy to do this, you know, it's completely different from Superman, but I love this, and if me being involved in this is going to help this movie get made, I'm in.
	Well, now there's some story.
	I had no idea that went on.
	So when he signed on, then we had a movie, and, you know, they gave us a grand sum of $4.2 million to make it.
	By today's standards, that's sort of, what, about 10 minutes of shooting?
	Yeah.
	Well, I can tell you this.
	The visual effects budget on What Dreams May Come, just the visual effects budget, was $18 million.
	Oh, my God.
	So, we went off to make Somewhere in Time, and it was a magical, fantastic experience.
	We were lucky to get Jane Seymour.
	That was going to be my next question.
	How did you get Jane?
	Well, we had an open call, actually.
	We interviewed an awful lot of actresses to be somebody opposite Chris.
	He's such a wonderful man.
	There's no ego about Chris Reed.
	There never was.
	There never was.
	He was always just a part of the team.
	And Chris said, well, you know, you're going to read these actresses.
	I'll read all of them with you.
	Which, you know, movie stars just don't do.
	They basically don't do.
	And he read with everybody.
	And we got a phone call that Jane Seymour, who had just been in a James Bond film, the name of which just slips my mind.
	I don't remember which one it was.
	She hadn't made an American film yet, but she wanted to come in and read, and Jane came in dressed as the character.
	She'd had this extraordinary dress made that was a period dress from 1912.
	She came in dressed as the character, and she acted the character from the minute she walked in the room.
	She sat down, and she read with Chris.
	We all looked at each other and said, well, that's the end of this search.
	All right.
	Hold on.
	Stay right there.
	We'll be right back with you.
	Stephen Simon is my guest.
	And we will indeed take you back to 1912.
	By the way, I've got a photograph I need to show you, which we'll get to after the break.
	From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
	Stephen Simon is my guest, and we will be back.
	i don't have to have done the
	the the
	the the
	the to reach Artvel in the Kingdom of Nigh from west of the
	Rockies Dire 1.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	618-8255, east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First-time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222, or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1222.
	To recharge on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
	My guest is none other than Steven Simon, responsible for actually two of my favorite movies of all time, period.
	One of them is somewhere in time, and if you look on my website, on my... over on the left-hand side, at www.arto.com, I just took a webcam photograph of a photograph that I've got of Jane Seymour.
	It is the same photograph that was in the film.
	And it's not possible to look at that photograph without falling in love with it.
	I don't know, there's just something about it.
	And the way she looks, and the way she radiated, it's all right there.
	Anyway, we'll get back to all of that in a moment.
	Well I started out down a dirty road Started out all alone As the sun went down, as the cross
	built a hill When the town lit up, the world got still
	A ray of light, a brighter day This program is rebroadcast from Art Bell's Loud Program, which airs Monday through Friday from 10 p.m.
	to 3 a.m.
	Pacific Time and 1 a.m.
	to 6 a.m.
	Eastern Time.
	Please contact your local radio listing for the times that Coast to Coast AM airs live in your area.
	And now, Back now to Stephen Simon.
	And Stephen, what I've done is I've taken a photograph.
	I have this little webcam that takes a photograph about every minute or so of me, or less than a minute, 30 seconds perhaps.
	And I took a picture off my wall and took a photograph of it so everybody can go up to my website and see it.
	It's the photograph with the frame that was in Somewhere in time of Jane Seymour.
	Yeah, the portrait that pulls him back in time.
	The portrait that stops hearts.
	Yes, it does.
	You could not look at that face.
	It is about as classic, I'm telling you, this is as classic a look as a person could dream about.
	And so I can only imagine when you saw her walk in in period costume to try out for this, Everybody's heart must have stopped.
	Oh, we did.
	We looked at Chris and Jane and said, that's it.
	Literally, we stopped right there.
	It was like, okay, you've got the part.
	Have you heard her reflections on it since then?
	Oh, yes.
	It's something that causes... Everyone involved in that film knew that we were involved in something very unique.
	It was a very, very magical time.
	We were on this beautiful island that does not allow motorized vehicles, so it was a big brouhaha to bring our truck on.
	The Grand Hotel had never allowed anything to be shot there except for one brief thing for three days that they'd allowed in the 40s.
	They had steadfastly turned down everybody.
	Really?
	And the owner of the hotel, I got the script of the owner of the hotel with a note saying, you know, please read this and you'll see that your hotel is going to be one of the stars.
	And he called me and he said, yeah, we'll do this.
	And so it was a magical time for everybody.
	We all knew that it was very special.
	And Jane and Chris, when they've been interviewed over the years, have always had a very, very special place in their heart for this movie.
	We know the lives that it's affected.
	We know how many people have fallen in love through its spell, whose vows have been renewed through its spell, who have been brought into a sense of the eternity of love, the idea of soulmates, which began in a very smaller way in some time and then was really the basis for the entire film, What Dreams May Come.
	That's why Richard wrote the two books as companions, but we'll get to that later.
	Jane and Chris have A great, great love for Somewhere in Time and for all of the people who are so passionate about it.
	Well, I also have a great passion for time travel.
	And so it hit me on both counts.
	I am married to my soulmate.
	There's no question about it.
	Boy, is she my soulmate.
	And when she saw it, she had the precise reaction I did to it.
	And you're right.
	Both of these films are all about soulmates.
	And of course, at the end of Somewhere in Time, Um, if you're not crying, then you haven't been watching.
	And I don't go in for what, usually, what my wife dubs chick flicks, you know, and some people would say it's a chick flick.
	Well, it's not.
	It's an everybody flick, somewhere in time.
	And at the end, gee, the ending of that movie, is it still, it seems like I saw it recently running, I don't know, on HBO or Cinemax or Showtime or one of them.
	Well, they always from time to time will run it because they know it has such a passionate following.
	It still rents, you go into most any video store, it's still there, it still rents the soundtrack, which was sadly one of the things that I think was under-recognized about the movie because John Barry wrote such an amazing score, such an extraordinary score.
	Absolutely.
	And it wasn't appreciated right away either, and now I know they still sell a lot of those soundtracks every year, and it has become a perennial for the people who love it.
	It does cast that spell, and I think that what's underneath that is the fact that we're all looking for that special person.
	The people who have that special person, like you with Ramona, myself with Catherine, and everyone else that we know that has that, you cherish that, and this reminds you of that, and it brings you closer.
	And people who don't have it, So much want to have it, and I think there's a powerful link, actually, between someone's time and what dreams may come.
	Oh, yes.
	In many different ways, and one of them is everyone would like to believe that the person that they love and the person who loves them would travel through time and would go through anything to be with the person they love.
	What dreams may come is actually going through, literally, The world was ready for what dreams may come.
	to redeem your wife and soul and in somewhere in time it's about traveling through time
	to redeem your love.
	But the same thread really.
	Yes, same thread.
	Love.
	Love is right.
	What dreams may come now.
	The world was ready for what dreams may come.
	When I interviewed you on Dreamland you had, I had not yet seen it and you were trying
	to describe it to me and trying to describe what dreams may come.
	It's not exactly what I would call an easy thing to do.
	No.
	For somebody who's not seen 20 years to get paid.
	Well, you're right.
	And it is a movie of a man who crossed through heaven and hell to be with the one he loved.
	Yes.
	I guess that's the easiest way to describe it.
	When I read the galleys for that book, which Richard gave to me during the entire making of Somewhere in Time, he said, this is my new book.
	I remember that so vividly because I stayed up all night.
	I read the book.
	I cried.
	I read it again.
	I cried.
	I went over to him and I said, Richard, we made a handshake deal on Somewhere in Time.
	Let me make the same deal with you on What Dreams May Come.
	I promise you I'll get it made and I promise you it won't take three years.
	It didn't take three years, I was right, it took twenty, and it began this tremendous saga, and the thing that connected to me in What Dreams May Come, and connected to me so powerfully, is that all of the great love stories, all the great love stories, are based on the obstacles between the lovers, starting with Romeo and Juliet, and every movie that you've ever seen, the obstacles between the lovers are the linchpin upon the power of the film.
	Why 20 years?
	How could it possibly take 20 years to get that together?
	Well, I'm slow, for one thing.
	I'm a slow learner.
	I have a slow learning curve.
	There were a lot of reasons for that.
	Most of them dealt with the industry and the world being ready to take the next leap.
	There have been a lot of films that have taken place for five minutes or ten minutes like that in an afterlife.
	As you remember, for instance, in Heaven Can Wait, there are white clouds and things like that.
	This entire film takes place in the afterlife experience of the main character.
	Being able to visualize that, number one, and number two, being able to have the consciousness that an audience would be ready for it, has taken a long time.
	We had to find the right script, which took a while.
	The right writer, and we found this extraordinary writer in Ron Bass who wrote this amazing script.
	We had to find the right director who would have the courage to take it on.
	There were a lot of directors over the years who were intrigued by what Dreams May Come, but when I would talk to them, they would say to me, you know, Steve, I just don't know how to visualize it.
	I don't know how to do it.
	And Vincent Ward, who directed the film, is an extraordinary New Zealand visionary director, came in and said, fellas, I know what to do.
	him in his wife's paintings and it will be like handrails for the audience to go into
	the afterlife.
	It will make him comfortable, it will make them comfortable and we said, Vincent that's
	a great idea, can we do that?
	He said, yeah we can do it.
	And we said, do you know how Vincent?
	He said, no.
	I wouldn't have known.
	But we'll figure it out.
	And so that was kind of the key.
	I think, and as I said the world wasn't ready for it.
	We're so much as a humanity today, more ready to look at what it really might mean to be
	human and you mentioned at the beginning that in 1994, 1995 when Barnett and I got together
	and we formed Metaphilmics which is metaphysics and film, it was the synergy of Barnett and
	I coming together and saying, okay we're going to be consciously spiritual people.
	We're going to have a consciously spiritual film company, Metafilmx.
	We're only going to make these kinds of films.
	When we set that intent out there, Me getting together with Barnett was the thing that clicked everything over, and which allowed us to then actually go out and be able to put the film together.
	And the world started to be ready to look at things like this and say, OK, I'm willing to go there to see what I really might be like.
	And that was the difference.
	Yeah, I think people's thinking is changing.
	And maybe it's well that you did not put this movie together 20 years ago, because it would not have flown.
	No, it wouldn't have flown.
	And frankly, the technology And you're right at the beginning.
	You did win the Academy Award for Visual Effects, and the guys that created it under Vincent... That's what I thought.
	It says here, nominations to Academy Award nominations, but I remember you winning for visual effects, and I stood up and screamed.
	Val, thank you.
	So did we.
	We were very proud of those guys, because they really had to create a technology that had not been done before.
	You can't create nature in a computer.
	It's the one thing that you cannot do because leaves and water and things like that don't... If you completely do it CGI, computer graphics, the human eye knows that that's not nature.
	So it was the conceit of this to actually go out and shoot in nature and then do all of the computer graphics after it.
	So literally everything had to be hand-painted by artists.
	And for those of your audience that have seen What Dreams May Come, when Robin Williams goes into that painted world, there are 54 shots in that painted world from the time he wakes up until the time the world becomes real.
	And each one of those shots will end up costing $250,000 to be able to affect because of the sophistication of the technology.
	And what's so funny about all of that is that I'm telling you within a year, you'll be seeing that on commercials on television.
	Maybe you can explain to the layperson, and I'm sure one of those when it comes to films, how Robin Williams was able to do the interaction with what would later be combined with these incredible visual effects that I have no idea how you did.
	Well, I can tell you that because what Robin was in nature, we shot those sequences primarily in Montana.
	What happened is, to try to put it in the simplest form, is that Robin and the dog and Cuba and all that was shot on legitimate locations in the way you would shoot anything out in nature.
	Right.
	Then what happened is that the technology that was employed was called a LADAR, which is Laser and Radar Camera.
	It was brought in after we left the location and it would map In an extremely complicated, computer-like way, all of the geography that we shot, every single angle of everything.
	Then the original film and that technology was taken back to the visual effects company, put together, what's called composited together.
	And then, when a radar map and a computer map was actually made of everything we did, they took the natural shots and then started literally hand and computer painting every single frame.
	So that the paint strokes were actually applied on top of what was really a tree.
	Okay, I've done all that, but what I mean is, when you were on location with Robin, how did you translate to him and communicate to him What it was going to be so that he was doing the right things in Montana?
	Well, he saw all of the drawings.
	You know, all of the actors knew exactly all of the drawings and all of the concepts.
	So they knew, what Robin knew, is that when he was walking along the ground, that his feet would be actually making paint smudges.
	He knew that when he fell into that pile of goo, that pile of paint, that pile of paint before he, right, he meets Cuba, that that was all going to be paint.
	All the actors knew what they were going to be seeing, what we would eventually be seeing
	on the screen before they did it.
	It's not like when...
	Visual effects today are primarily done if there is nothing in the scene with an actor
	standing in front of a blue screen or a green screen.
	And basically they have to react to nothing and then it's projected onto that screen.
	And that's how you create visual effects.
	These actors all were dealing...
	Basically they were dealing with nature.
	They were dealing with flowers and water and trees and things like that.
	So we just enhanced it.
	We didn't have to create it.
	And so you were able to sit down with them beforehand, show them what the end product was going to be, and with the aid of the real thing around them, the beauty around them, and oh boy, there's beauty in Montana.
	Oh, there certainly is.
	It's spectacular.
	As a matter of fact, it must have been nice to be out of the studio and on location in a place like that.
	Well, it was great fun.
	It was the first part of the film.
	We shot it there, and then most of the rest of it was shot in these huge hangars.
	Abandoned hangars in San Francisco on Treasure Island.
	You know, the end of the Cold War was one of the greatest things that ever happened to the movie business.
	Because a lot of these Army and Naval bases have been decommissioned, and they have these enormous hangars and spaces that are not useful for anything.
	Now they're being used by movie companies, where sound stages are not as big, and they're much too expensive, and to build all of the things that we had to build for What Dreams Become, we needed huge stages.
	The rest of the film was shot in San Francisco.
	By the way, that was an awfully big risk in a lot of ways, and a career difference for Robin Williams.
	How did he approach this film?
	That's a wonderful story.
	The movie we knew was going to be very expensive.
	Through the help of a wonderful man named Ted Field, who owns a company called Interscope, we approached Polygram to finance the film.
	They were willing to do it, but we needed a movie star to front the film, because they would not put up that kind of money unless they had a big star.
	It was really kind of a universe of one, because we sat down and said, okay, look, who can we have in this movie?
	We need to have somebody who will take the audience into the afterlife.
	We need a fantastic actor, but we need an actor with great personal presence with the audience that the audience trusts.
	There were a lot of unique things, and it really kept going back to Robin, Robin, Robin.
	So we made Robin the offer.
	We held our breath.
	Usually it takes weeks when you hear something like that.
	Two days later, we get a phone call saying Robin wants to meet.
	And again, usually when you sit in those meetings, particularly with someone of Robin's stature, it's like, well, you know, I like the script, but I want you to change this, and if you'll do this, then maybe I'll think about it and I'll see you in six months.
	Well, we go into the room with Robin, and he sits down and he says, fellas, I got two things to tell you.
	One, I'm in.
	That's it.
	I'm doing the movie.
	The second thing is, I'll play all the parts if you want me to.
	Really?
	He just jumped into it with both feet, and we were off to the races.
	So he bought the whole thing and basically said, you know, I love this script.
	I love what you're doing.
	It's going to take a long time.
	And it did.
	It took us a year to prepare the movie.
	It's going to take a long time.
	I got a couple of movies to do in between, but I'll be there and let's make the deal.
	And then we went about the process of casting the film.
	We got Cuba right after he won the Academy Award, which was very, very fortunate for us.
	And again, we had a search for the woman.
	There was a lot of talk about having a movie star play that role, but a big movie star.
	And we really thought we wanted to, again, find an actress who could play the reins in that film.
	You know, there's a lot of controversial parts of What Dreams May Come, a lot of controversial parts.
	And the fact that we made a huge film that all has as its basis, we create our own reality,
	both in life and in the afterlife.
	That's a big concept for a lot of people to accept, that there is no such thing as a real
	world that you walk around in, that life is an illusion and everything that you do in
	it is your own creation.
	And we knew that we had these things.
	That was one.
	Certainly the suicide aspect of it has been a very controversial thing.
	Very controversial.
	We can talk about that more.
	I do want to talk about that.
	I want to talk about the reference to God, too.
	The singular reference.
	My guest is Stephen Simon.
	You know Stephen Simon.
	You may not know that you know Stephen Simon, but you do.
	And if you've been listening, surely by now, you're quite well acquainted with Stephen Simon.
	If not, keep listening.
	We've got lots to talk about.
	I'm Art Bell from the High Desert.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the music.
	I'm going to be playing a little bit of a song called Holy Spirit.
	from West of the Rockies at one.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach Art at 1-775-727-1222.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222.
	And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	To reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye.
	And I might add, Steven Simon, who is responsible for so much of what I love, he has done so much good work.
	We're talking about what dreams may come and somewhere in time.
	Now, of course, that's not all he's done by a long shot, but He never did another thing.
	He got my attention, that's for sure.
	we'll get back to him in a moment and now back to the best of our film
	once again stephen simons Stephen, I'm going to tell you a very brief story about a young lady that I had on the program whose name was Sarah.
	Sarah had a near-death experience.
	Which was the most remarkable I've ever heard about in my whole life.
	Sarah was a young lady.
	She was a church volunteer.
	She was on her way home from that volunteer work at church, riding her bicycle.
	And she was hit from behind by a vehicle doing about 55 or 60 miles an hour.
	She was thrown several hundred yards in the air, broke just about every bone in her body, You know, her life signs all stopped.
	She barely... She's still recovering, actually.
	But she had this most incredible NDE that was detailed over a couple of hours in which she went to a place that contained both what we would think of as heaven and definitely what we would think of as hell.
	Kind of an interesting... If you ever get the opportunity, we have the uh... the real audio accounting of that you can actually hear her tell the story up on my website but it was loyal boy was it something and of course that is uh... what dreams may come dealt dealt both with heaven and hell one thing i wanted to ask you was there was only one reference in the movie that i recall to god and it was very short and it was
	There was a question about God, and I think the answer was, he's up there, or he's there, or something like that.
	Do you recall?
	Oh, sure.
	Robin asked Cuba, where's God in all of this?
	Cuba looks upward and says, oh, he's there, smiling down at us, shouting down at us that he loves us and wondering why we can't hear him, you think?
	That's fine.
	How long have we got?
	When you're going to do a movie that entirely takes place in the afterlife and deals with everyone's beliefs, the debate is extensive, long and unending and heated.
	I bet.
	The conversations about every single word in that film were Very, very in-depth, and there was a lot of passion on all sides.
	When you're the producers, like Barnett and I were, you're kind of at the center of all of that.
	It was very important for us to have the movie have a very strong, central, spiritual vision.
	The spiritual vision was, in this afterlife, in this afterlife experience of this character, the rules were, you create your own reality.
	And we felt that that covered everything, because if you are a fundamental Christian, then your afterlife is going to reflect your beliefs.
	If you're a Jew, it's going to reflect your beliefs.
	We think the world gets into trouble when any group comes along and says, we are the only truth.
	Yeah, it's not going to be your way.
	You're all mistaken.
	You're all wet.
	In fact, unless you convert to our way, you're doomed to a fiery hell.
	I think you're right.
	It can only be everybody's own concept of what heaven or hell would be.
	But we didn't want to exclude God because we felt that that would be inappropriate as
	well.
	And so what we really wanted to do was talk about this afterlife as not being heaven because
	truly it was not heaven.
	It was his creation of what his life would be like with his wife.
	There was a lot of controversy, again, talking about your own reality.
	I've had people come up to me, it had actually just happened to me at a birthday party, and say to me, gee, I loved your movie, but the thing that really disappointed me in this spiritual movie is that you had all those Judeo-Christian visions of hell.
	And then literally three minutes later, I had somebody come up to me and say, God, the thing I love most about your movie is that you had no Judeo-Christian themes in Hell.
	So everybody sees their own film.
	But Hell was not Hell.
	Hell was not a universal Hell.
	Hell, actually, in your movie, was the opposite of where Robin was.
	But it was her creation.
	And it was all their creation.
	It was where she went.
	Before you took the break at the top of the hour, we were talking about the controversy about the suicide.
	Yes, this movie has a lot of controversy about the suicide because Robin's wife, in grief over his death, does take her own life and she'd lost her own children before.
	It's explained to him that she has created this hell for herself in which she's going
	to be replaying these visions for eternity and he goes out and down in the terminology
	of the movie to find her.
	But the truth of the matter is we got a lot of controversy about, well, did suicides go
	to hell?
	No.
	That's not what we said.
	What we said is that she knows this for herself.
	That's right.
	And his love redeemed it.
	Again, I've had people say to me, you know, you guys are inhuman monsters for creating
	in people, families that had loved ones commit suicide thinking that they would be in this
	kind of torment.
	And then we've had people come up to us and say, God, we run suicide prevention centers.
	Young people who have tried to commit suicide before and we sent them all to see this film
	and they have a completely different understanding of what human life is like.
	I think when you want to do something, again, on the edge, on the spiritual edge of humanity,
	you're going to engender passion either way.
	And frankly, I would rather make a film that people either loved or absolutely hated than
	make a film that was kind of like in the middle.
	I know, Stephen, I've interviewed a lot of people who have had near-death experiences
	and have claimed a lot of things, but one common thread in all of them is that they
	have a life, a full life review and they, in effect, judge themselves.
	Whether it would be to go to the place where Robin Williams did or his wife did, it all fits.
	In other words... Oh, this is all based on research.
	Oh, absolutely.
	What Dreams May Come actually was the genesis for that idea with Richard Matheson was that he had done a tremendous amount of near-death experience research and he had done it for some more time and then when he had the idea for What Dreams May Come he wanted to do something about a love story in the afterlife and what was striking to him And you read it in the literature, which is voluminous.
	What Dreams May Come may be the only novel ever published, maybe, I'm not sure, that actually has a bibliography as a novel.
	And it has an extensive bibliography of the research into near-death and after-life experiences.
	And what Richard found, which is what caused him to write the book the way he did, is that all around the world, people who have near-death experiences relate primarily the same experience.
	Not exclusively, but primarily that they feel this beckoning light that's very comforting, that they go through a tunnel-like experience where their loved ones are there.
	The only people who do not relate that experience are people who are revived after suicide attempts.
	And they tell a very different experience.
	Or they don't talk at all.
	Correct.
	Most times they don't talk at all.
	And that's why Richard thought, Aha!
	That's a great idea for a book, and that's what started off the whole idea of What Dreams Become, which then, as you know from seeing the film, went into a lot of other areas of what does it mean to be alive, what does it mean to be human, I think, therefore, I am, and all of the kinds of things.
	I think people, as we get within now just a hundred or so days of the era, whatever it is at the end of this millennium, people are asking themselves questions.
	Much of the media tells me that as a humanity I am depraved, I am greedy, and I don't care about my fellow person, and I'm not really good as a human being.
	Is that true?
	Is that really true?
	What does it really mean to be human?
	Why are we here?
	What are the definitions of success?
	If we have a second here, I want to tell you the most extraordinary thing that happened with What Dreams May Come.
	Because of all of the stories, of all of the things that happened, it was the thing that had the most powerful effect on us, and on Barnett and myself.
	The opening weekend of the film, we were very involved, as unfortunately we all get, with money and grosses, and how much did it gross, and how are we doing, and what are the critics thinking.
	Barnett's wife, Sandy, and my fiancée, Catherine, were saying to us, You have to think of a different definition of success, because you guys have a metaphysical film company.
	It can't just be about money.
	They were totally right, and that's exactly what we were thinking.
	Then along came this wonderful story.
	We get a phone call from one of the distributors of the film in the Midwest, that there is a man in Milwaukee, and he has certainly allowed me now to use his name, a man named Chuck Webber.
	Who had a daughter, a 17-year-old daughter, who had terminal cancer.
	And she was dying literally within days.
	And she had seen the trailer for the film and really wanted to see the film, but was too ill to get out.
	And very quickly, and Polygram was fantastic about it, we got a cassette made.
	And those of you who knew anything about piracy and stuff like that know that studios are terrified of doing this.
	But everyone was so touched by this.
	How did they put them under guard?
	Oh yeah, absolutely.
	They made this print.
	We got the tape out.
	We got it by messenger and by courier to these people in Wisconsin, to the Weber family.
	I left a message on their home machine saying that I hoped that it would do them good.
	I didn't hear anything for about two weeks.
	Then Chuck called me and told me about the last three days of Amanda's life.
	Amanda was 17 and died of a very rare form of cancer.
	She had been very brave, but at the end she had a lot of fear.
	She was home within a couple of days of her passing, and they got the film.
	She had a bunch of her friends in from high school, and they all watched it together.
	Chuck told me that as he watched his daughter watch the film, he saw her fear disappear.
	Wow.
	She became completely at peace, and the next day was a beautiful fall day in Wisconsin.
	She wanted to be taken out to a park.
	She wanted to see all the colors which she connected to the afterlife colors in the painted
	world and what dreams may come.
	She really let her dad know that she now had a frame of reference for when she died.
	The next day she did pass very, very peacefully.
	When Chuck related this story to us he basically said, this film made the entire difference
	to the last two days of my daughter's life.
	Since, Chuck has become a very, very, very close family friend.
	A lot of Amanda's things were sent to our daughters, Carrie, who's 19, and Heather, who's now 13.
	He sent things to our sons, Eli and Danny.
	The families have become very, very close.
	Of all of the things that happened with What Dreams May Come, that's the one that will always stay in my mind, because we now have a new definition of success for what we do with our filmmaking.
	Boy, that's some story.
	Oh, he's an extraordinary guy, Chuck, and my guess is if he's not asleep, he's probably listening in Milwaukee, and if he is, I want him to know how much we love him.
	I would imagine the film would have done that for a lot of people.
	Surely, after a film like this, that's seen so widely, that grosses $100 million, You get a lot of reaction.
	You get a million letters.
	Oh, we do.
	I bet.
	We do.
	A lot of them very positive and a lot of them very negative.
	Really?
	Did you find that the negative mostly came from fundamentalist disciplines?
	No.
	Actually, we were very, very, very surprised.
	We actually thought that organized religion would have a lot of problems with the film and they didn't.
	They didn't.
	And actually, we really were very careful.
	We really did not want to fall into a trap of making a film about the afterlife and have
	it be anti-religious and everything else because we're not.
	If you're a metaphysician, which we are, you believe and respect everyone's truth.
	I respect Buddhism and fundamental Christians and everyone else exactly the same.
	I totally respect their belief systems.
	Although, a lot of fundamentals will say that big tent Speech just doesn't work.
	It isn't a big tent.
	It's a bitty tent.
	You better come through this little bitty tent or else... You know what?
	I understand that, and again, you can't be a metaphysician and not respect other people's feelings.
	Agreed.
	That's what they feel.
	I respect that.
	I don't share it.
	Where I have a problem is if they try to... anyone, anyone...
	including me, tries to make somebody else believe that I have the truth.
	There is nothing in what dreams may come or in any of the work that Metafilmix has done
	or will do in the future that is going to say we have the answers.
	We have no answers.
	We have a lot of questions.
	A lot of questions.
	And that's what we hope.
	What we hope will happen is that people will see these films, will see dreams, will see
	conversations with God, which we are in the process of preparing now and other things
	that we are doing, and walk out and say, all right, now I want to talk about this.
	And they will talk to their friends.
	I remember walking out of previews of what dreams may come, you know, 40 minutes after
	the film were finished and we would see people in the parking garages having heated arguments.
	This one loved it.
	This one hated it.
	This one thought this was right.
	This one thought this was ridiculous.
	And we looked at ourselves, Barnett and I, and said, God, we have done our job.
	You know, we have started a dialogue again about our humanity.
	And that's what we want to do.
	so there were the mailman reflected exactly the same kind of
	you.
	We actually got a fantastic review in a very well-respected Christian magazine.
	I think they understood what we were trying to do.
	The people who had the strongly negative reactions to it were really principally people who felt an enormous amount of pain because of the suicide angle, having had family members that had committed suicide.
	That's something that I can only say I completely understand and completely respect.
	And I can feel that.
	And what we always try to say to them was, look, it is the position of the movie that that is a choice made by every individual and love can overcome it.
	And not only that, but there is no, according to the movie, the way I read it, there was no automatic sentence to any hell at all.
	That's right.
	If the suicide had been for some horribly selfish reason, then one might imagine that person According to the way your movie was laid out, it might create their own hell, but they were not automatically sentenced to any hell.
	Actually, Cuba says that very specifically.
	There are no rules.
	There are no judges.
	Everyone's equal.
	It's just the way things work.
	And he made a decision that that was something that he was going to play out.
	That was something that he was going to do.
	We had a very different ending for the film, which, by the way, is available on the DVD.
	Oh, you know what?
	I've got the DVD.
	I just went out and bought the DVD.
	Oh, good.
	And you're telling me there's a different ending on it?
	Yeah, the original ending of What Dreams May Come is actually we included on the DVD.
	It's not finished because we never finished all of the effects.
	And it was a very, very different concept.
	Oh, you're kidding!
	Very different.
	Well, I'll ask you about that when we come back, which we will shortly.
	And we'll also get to the phone shortly.
	My guest is Steven Simon.
	The man behind so much of what I love that has appeared on the silver screen and now, of course, at home.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Well this is Coast to Coast AM.
	What a tale my father could tell Just like an old time movie
	About a ghost from a wishing well In a castle dark or a fortress strong
	With chains upon my feet You know that ghost is me
	And I will never be set free The longer I'm a ghost, you can't see
	To reach our bell in the kingdom of Nigh from west of the Rockies dial 1
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222 or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
	To reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them
	dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
	And Steven Simon, who's doing something in the film industry that, frankly, I wish more of the film industry was doing.
	And maybe now that he's had a smash hit, $100 million smash hit, Maybe there will be more, and that's something we'll ask about.
	And also that alternate ending.
	That's certainly intriguing.
	So we'll get to all of that in a moment.
	uh... if you have questions for steven were about to go to the polls
	and now back to the best of our town All right, Stephen Simon, welcome back.
	You said there was another ending.
	What a shock!
	Another ending to what dreams may come.
	Yes.
	When we originally envisioned the film, and you know, this happens much more than people think happens in movies.
	You know, when you see a movie, you think, well, that's what they planned, and they planned that from the beginning.
	More often than not, there has been a lot of reshot footage, because you think something's going to work, and then you show it to an audience, and you realize that it didn't.
	And we had an ending on that was much more extensive and went much more into the karma of Annabella's suicide.
	Wow.
	And the decision that she made to be reborn into a life where she would have a certain karmic debt that would be a result of that and Robin's choice to go back and be with her.
	They are originally, in the original ending, were reincarnated as a small boy in Philadelphia
	and a little girl in Sri Lanka that were going to get together through various circumstances.
	When we previewed the film we realized that the ending was much too long, much too complicated
	and that the journey had been so difficult and emotional and intense for the audience
	that we needed to do something with the same general idea, which was to do the reincarnation
	which we knew we had to end the film with, but to do it in a different way and again
	to give the people at Polygram so much credit.
	They allowed us to go back and spend another couple of million dollars, even though we
	had already spent a lot of money, to go back and do the ending right.
	And we're much happier with the ending on the film than we were with the original.
	Well, I love the way it ended, and I'm dying to see the original as well now.
	That's really interesting.
	Listen, I have a personal, selfish question.
	I am indeed going to the Grand Hotel for the reunion.
	I've never taken an action like this for any movie ever in my whole life.
	My wife has found a really good 1912 costume for herself, but boy, try to find one for a guy.
	Oh, really?
	I guess I'm going to go through that, too.
	Where does one look for a 1912 costume?
	I mean, even Christopher in the movie, really.
	I had a bit of a problem with that.
	You know what?
	My guess is, and I don't know these people, so I'm going to give them a plug, but I don't know anything about them.
	I don't know if Western Costume is still in business, but there used to be a company in Los Angeles called Western Costume, and you could go get basically anything from any period of time from them.
	I don't know if they're still around, but that's certainly in the back of my mind, to be able to do that as well.
	Well, that's at least one lead.
	I suppose I can try going on the various search engines and just put in 1912.
	Yeah, people seem to... What Art's talking about for the listeners is that on the Saturday night of the summertime weekend that is done the last weekend in October of every year at the Grand Hotel, where we shot at the fan club takes over the whole hotel, It's exciting to know you're going to be there.
	all that's right and uh... and dinner and everyone comes to a nineteen twelve
	costumes uh... i guess are we're gonna take our shot at the patent
	and do our best and exciting to know you're going to be there when did you
	make that decision i think that decision
	They've asked us.
	They've been very nice.
	They've asked us to do this every year and for various reasons.
	As I told you, I haven't really wanted to do it for emotional reasons.
	And this year, because of having Catherine in my life, I really decided that this was the right year to do it.
	And we made that decision about, I think, about four or five months ago.
	May I ask, what was Catherine's... You must have sat her down.
	At some point in your courtship, you said, here, I've got a movie I want you to see.
	Well, fortunately for me, Catherine had already seen it.
	She'd seen it.
	Catherine is a fellow traveler in these areas.
	As I mentioned, she has a magazine called the Holistic Health Journal, which totally deals with issues of health, but also emotional health and spiritual health and well-being and things like that.
	She is very much a part of this entire Well, that's going to make it a really special one, then.
	Yes, it will.
	I'm very much looking forward to it.
	She had already seen the film, fortunately for me, and we both had a very strong connection
	with it.
	She was the one that really said to me, well, when the summer time weekend comes up again,
	let's go.
	No kidding.
	Now that she's in my life, and such a positive influence in my life, that's what I'm going
	to do.
	Well, that's going to make it a really special one then.
	Yes, it will.
	I'm very much looking forward to it.
	Nineteen years.
	19 years.
	Alright, there are some calls, and also I want to ask you, by the way, I never knew you did Smoky and the Bandit.
	Well, I can't take credit for producing Smoky and the Bandit, that was done by a man named Mort Engelberg, but I was running Raystar at that time, and when the script came in, I was its champion, and we got it made at Universal, and that's what got Ray promoted me to being the head of the company, and I must tell you, it seems like It seems like that, Stephen Simon, the first thousand years.
	Yeah, that kind of launched you, didn't it?
	I mean, any time you spend $4 million on a film and gross $200 million, everybody listens.
	Oh, I should say one thing before we go to the phone, so that we don't get my rape phone calls from somewhere in time fans, who, because I've heard this before, that there's some guy named Stephen Simon going around masquerading as the producer of Somewhere in Time, when that guy's name was really Stephen Deutsch.
	I have to say to people, it's one and the same.
	My name was Steven Simon when I was born.
	My father died when I was four, and my stepfather, who was a wonderful man, adopted me.
	When What Dreams May Come, after all these years, finally got approved through this synergy with Metafilmix and my partner, Barnett, I decided to go back to my birth name of Simon because it felt to me like a proper acknowledgment of my heritage.
	There is a difference, because Steven Simon is the producer of What Dreams May Come, and Steven Deutch is the producer of Summer and Time, but I'm the same guy.
	Just one more thing, they're lined up to talk to you, they have questions, but I have just one more.
	Producing these kinds of films, it's a good thing, Steven, that you do.
	There's a lot of filmmaking going on that's not so good, and there's a lot of controversy about it.
	A lot of people are saying, well, it contributes to violence.
	There was just a survey done that seemed to suggest the exact opposite.
	The American people now are beginning to not think of films in the way they have been in recent years as contributing to the deterioration of our society as we see it all around us right now.
	So that's changing a little bit.
	What's your take?
	Well, a couple of things.
	Yes, making these kinds of films is different, and we are in a process right now.
	It is a challenging thing, because these kinds of movies, what most people call fantasy films, what I consider to be metaphysical, spiritual films, 2001, Field of Dreams, Heaven Can Wait, What Dreams May Come, Summer and Time, there's this whole long litany of them.
	We are, at Metafilms, we are really crusading to have these films be recognized as a genre.
	What we've really become convinced about, and we are actually right now in the process
	of raising $20 million for our company so that we can be completely independent of the
	entire Hollywood structure, because we really want to be able to do these films with a certain
	degree of integrity so that we don't have to sacrifice them to the homogenization process
	that goes on when you're trying to appeal to everybody.
	Dreams May Come does not appeal to everybody, and what happens with most of the Hollywood
	movies today, and it's not because these are bad people running the studios, because by
	and large, and I know it may surprise a lot of people, these are very decent, well-meaning
	people to a great extent.
	But because of the corporate takeover of Hollywood over the last 15 years, there is a lot less entrepreneurship and a lot less looking to the future, like saying, hey, movies for the Internet is the future, guys.
	We're going to be doing that real soon, and there's going to be hundreds of millions of dollars made, and there are going to be movies that never get any distribution other than the internet, and these movies about people looking at, again, what does it mean to be human, these kinds of things that are happening as a result of the millennium consciousness that's happening.
	This is the growth.
	This is the future.
	We can't do that within the system that we have now, and that's why we're becoming independent of it.
	We can't do it on a consistent basis.
	We've got dreams made.
	We're doing other things as well.
	As far as this debate that's going on right now, the film business has traditionally not led anything.
	The film business, if you look back through history, has basically reflected what's going on in society.
	And it is my belief that that's the same thing that's going on now.
	I think that a lot of these violent films that have been made, which have certainly contributed to a lack of love, a lack of respect, and a lack of empowerment in the society, would not be made if people weren't paying and going to see them.
	Well, the argument made is that it desensitizes people to violence to the point where young people simply sort of begin to I completely agree with that.
	This is a terrible paradox that we live in.
	We live in a country that has the First Amendment, which is unique.
	Very unique.
	And it is what makes us unique in the world.
	As Winston Churchill once said, democracy is the worst form of government ever devised by man, except for all the others.
	It's a tremendous paradox.
	And people don't feel comfortable in the middle of paradoxes.
	People like to have to solve it one way or the other.
	And the truth is, we do have the First Amendment.
	We need to respect it, but as an industry, we need to take responsibility for what we do as individuals, as filmmakers, and say, look, we should not be doing this, whether it makes money or not.
	There are other ways to make money.
	But as far as the government coming in and saying, OK, you can't do it, then what happens?
	What is an acceptable level of violence and who then decides what that is?
	I think a lot of the stuff that gets made is really, really damaging, not only to young people, But to people across the board in desensitizing them against violence, and I don't like, personally, I don't like those films.
	But again, I don't want somebody saying to me, look, you can't make metaphysical films.
	I don't want to say to other people, you can't make violent films, or you can't make this.
	We just need, as a society and as an industry, to be more comfortable living in the paradox in between.
	You know, to use a strong example of the last several years, People found it really difficult to accept, for those people who believe that O.J.
	Simpson was guilty of murdering his wife, that O.J.
	Simpson was this tremendously engaging, warm, wonderful, fantastic, charismatic personality who also might have been a really cold-blooded killer.
	People wanted him to be one or the other.
	They couldn't stand the idea that he was both.
	And we live in a society where we have the First Amendment.
	We need to have freedom, but we need to not exploit it.
	And that is an individual personal responsibility, again, for creating your own reality.
	I couldn't have said it better.
	The same difficulty is rampant on the Internet right now.
	In other words, on the one hand, you've got this all-important freedom of speech First Amendment thing, and on the other hand, you've got accountability, screaming for accountability about some of the things that are done up there.
	And the balance is so delicate and so difficult, if it goes too far in one direction, we're going to lose what we consider to be so precious, and bring on exactly what we don't want, some sort of regulation or law that will begin to infringe our freedoms.
	So we must be responsible, on the internet and with filmmaking.
	It's really the same.
	Well, we've come to that place, I think, in the evolution of human society, that Freedom does not necessarily mean that you should always do it, and how much is enough?
	How much is enough money to make?
	What does it really mean to be happy?
	What does it really mean to be successful?
	Just simply because you can do something, does that mean you should do something?
	Those of us who have had teenagers know that when teenagers get to be a certain age, they have the power to do things, and what you hope is that they have the judgment not to do all of them.
	Stephen, your reaction to this?
	You have been incredibly successful.
	to what do you attribute that i mean there must be times when you
	sit down and say to yourself
	how the hell did i do it did i have help from somewhere else
	was i just incredibly lucky and my so talented that i did all this myself well-weighted
	correct introspective but
	Let me tell you something, Art.
	I have been the head of three different film companies and have been fired from all three jobs.
	I've made more movies that haven't made money than movies that have made money.
	To quote the wonderful Jerry Maguire character, the Dickie Fox aging character that kept coming in, in truth, in life, I've failed as much as I've succeeded, but I love my life.
	I love my wife, and I wish you that kind of success.
	Again, what is the definition of success?
	I'm not a wealthy man by any stretch of the imagination, not in any way.
	I've had my problems along with everybody else.
	It is often difficult at times to make a living, but I have a passion in my life, and I have people who love me and who I love in my life, and I have a direct through-line to my life.
	I see what my life is about.
	My life is about my family, and my friends, and the people who love me.
	In my work, it's about trying to illuminate parts of the human condition that empower
	us and enlighten us.
	There are times we are going to succeed and there are times that we are going to fail,
	but my success in life is not, in my own estimation, determined by whether I make money or whether
	I don't make money.
	It's how I feel about myself as a human being at the end of the day.
	It is nice to do something that you love doing and then end up getting paid for it.
	Well, you know, listen, those people who have read the Celestine Prophecy, that is one of the precepts of the Celestine Prophecy, that we are all getting to a place Where we will have the capacity and the ability to make a living.
	You're here.
	Doing what we love.
	You love doing what you're doing.
	I do dearly.
	And you have the ability to be able to do it and to be successful at it.
	And more and more people are getting to that place in life.
	All right.
	Very quickly, first time caller on the line.
	You're on the air with Steven Simon.
	Hi.
	Hi, how are you doing?
	Just fine.
	Where are you, sir?
	I'm in Salt Lake City, Utah.
	Okay.
	I'm originally from northern Michigan, so I have a strong tie to somewhere in time.
	Um, and by the way, Art, I think it is Mackinac Island.
	It is Mackinac Island, yeah.
	It's Mackinac, alright.
	I guess I said Mackinac first and people said, no, no, no, it's Mackinac.
	Well, you don't want to be known as a fudgy.
	I was just going to say, this is definitely not a fudgy.
	Mackinac, sorry about that.
	That's okay.
	I'll never get it right.
	What the caller is talking about Art is that basically the principal profession on Mackinac
	Island for tourists is making fudge.
	Almost every other store that you walk in on the main street is a fudge store.
	That's what your caller is talking about.
	We used to buy the fudge too but we did it with sunglasses on.
	Anyway I did see the movie originally in the theater and while I was a senior in high school.
	had a major impact on me.
	That's one time I can remember actually sobbing at the end of a movie.
	I've always wondered why it didn't do better with the critics.
	I'll open up the critic books.
	I've seen the movie.
	Gosh, I have it in every format that it's made in.
	I had the soundtrack when it first came out, too.
	Do you think it's because?
	The story really couldn't be figured out.
	Why does he always stay young and she's old?
	I actually don't think that's why.
	I think again there's an understandable reason for this.
	I think that most critics, now we have to differentiate critics here.
	There are electronic critics, the television press, and there are print critics.
	The print critics are basically a very cynical group of people.
	They're forced to watch 150 movies a year, and most of the movies that they see are pretty bad.
	I mean, the truth is, we don't make as many great movies as we make movies that are mediocre, and they get inundated with constant cynical themselves, constant cynical kind of filmmaking.
	It makes them turn off, and I think that when you see something that is genuinely hopeful, they basically suspect the motives behind it.
	And a lot of them are not comfortable with it.
	Bless his heart, Gene Siskel was certainly not that way.
	Roger Ebert is certainly not that way.
	The television press tends to be different.
	I think as far as the critics were concerned with Summer and Time, and Chris at one point told me this, he really thinks that they were kind of, quote, waiting for him, unquote, after Superman.
	All press likes to build people up on their way up, and then when they get there, they like to knock them down.
	Isn't it so?
	Well, that's unfortunate, because I think it still is an incredible movie, and I've always recommended it to anyone who wanted a good romantic love story.
	Well, I appreciate that.
	I also appreciate the fact that you saw it when you were in high school.
	Yeah, I really did.
	And two movies made me cry at the end.
	One was Color Purple, and the other one was Somewhere in Time.
	But I just wanted to say thank you very much.
	I was really surprised to hear that you were on tonight, and it's been many years that I've wanted to find out more about that movie.
	All right, my friend.
	I appreciate that.
	Thank you.
	We've got to go.
	Listen, Steven, you good for one more hour?
	Oh, you bet.
	I'll stay with you the whole time.
	All right.
	Done deal.
	Steven Simon is my guest, and we'll be right back.
	I'm Art Bell, and this, of course, is Coast to Coast AM.
	We want it all right and it's coming along.
	We gotta get right back to where we started from.
	Love is good, love can be strong.
	We gotta get right back to where we started from.
	You were looking precious, when you first came my way.
	I said no one can take your place.
	You're the giver.
	I'll be free, so free.
	Red, red, blue, blue.
	you I see them bloom, for me and you.
	And I think to myself, what a wonderful world.
	Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Night from west of the Rockies at 1-800-9-4.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First timers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First timers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222.
	And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295.
	To recharge on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
	That's exactly what it is Steven Simon is my guest.
	We're talking about a couple of... He's made so many, but what dreams may come.
	Somewhere in time.
	They're just, they're incredible.
	It's like what I do on the radio, he does on film.
	You know, I think that's where the synergy comes from.
	I must live long, till I must know, and I will know.
	You know, I think that's where the synergy comes from.
	We'll get right back to it.
	And now, back to the best of Art Bell.
	It's funny, when I go out to the fax machine, I find questions that have simply just been answered.
	Somebody wrote, another love story in the afterlife movie was Meryl Streep and Albert Brooks in Defending Your Life, which was a very good movie.
	And he goes on to say, this is frank, in Hollywood of all places, In the DVD release of What Dreams May Come, there's an alternate ending where the two characters are shown reincarnated in Sri Lanka and Pennsylvania.
	What led to the selection of that ending that was used instead without reincarnation actually being shown?
	Was there a big discussion about that?
	Well, yes.
	As I said, we realized when the film is in front of audiences that the ride was a particularly intense one.
	And that once we had the reunion in what we call Summerland, that we did not want to go back on the ride again.
	And that we wanted to give the audience a real emotional release and have there be a synergy at the end.
	And the reincarnation is actually very specifically mentioned because they talk about doing it and then you see the little boy and the little girl at the end of the film and you know that's the two of them.
	So, that's what happened.
	Okay.
	Alright, I've got to get to my audience.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Stephen Simon and Art Bell.
	Good morning!
	Good morning, Mr. Simon.
	Good morning.
	I'm Eric Percy calling from Knoxville, Tennessee, but I saw What Dreams May Come a couple months ago, and I was amazed at how good this film was.
	It was even more amazing that finally Hollywood is starting to let the special effects assist the movie instead of be the movie.
	Oh, good, yes.
	I appreciate that.
	Yes.
	But the main reason why I'm calling is I'm 15 and I plan to be a movie director.
	I'm always reading all these how to make movies books and books on movie history and about some of my favorite movies and such.
	I was wondering if you could give me any guidelines on where to get started or what kind of jobs to go to to help me out.
	There you go.
	What do you say to a 15 year old who wants to be in your business?
	Well, let's start here.
	If you have the passion in your gut, you'll make it.
	It's that simple.
	People try to discourage people from getting in the movie business.
	Oh, it's too difficult.
	There are too many people.
	That's a bunch of baloney.
	If you have the passion inside of you and you really feel that you're not going to be happy in life unless this is what you do, then you'll find a way to do it.
	If you want to be a director when you're young, start with a video camera.
	Make movies.
	Get a video camera and start making your own movies.
	Find someplace that you can edit them.
	Make home movies.
	That's how Spielberg started.
	And then if you want to go to school, one of the great things that's happened in the United States over the last 10 or 15 years is that there's been an enormous proliferation of film schools, which are no longer theoretical film schools.
	They actually teach people how to be filmmakers.
	And they're all over the country.
	There are literally dozens and dozens and dozens of them.
	And it's easy to find, and that's certainly a way to do it if you want to do that through college.
	If you don't want to do that, and you have the capacity to do it, then I would urge you At some point or another, once you get out of high school, and if you decide not to go through the college route, to go to Los Angeles, come to Los Angeles, which is really still the filmmaking capital of the world.
	And find your way, which is not difficult to do because it's all over the place.
	Find your way into production companies, into agencies.
	You go to the Director's Guild.
	They have an apprenticeship program that they take people on.
	It is not a tremendous mystery.
	What separates people from the people who succeed and the people who don't is not so much talent, although talent is enormously important, it's will.
	It's truly will.
	You have to have the fire in your belly.
	If you do, you'll make it.
	So you're saying it can still be done today.
	In other words, in this atmosphere of the new corporate reality in Hollywood that we have, it's got to be harder than it was once.
	Or maybe not.
	Yes, in some ways it is.
	But at the same time, there is a large independent film community.
	The television now, particularly with the proliferation of all of these cable channels, and as I said, with the vision of the future, the internet, that technology is already there.
	There's a company called SightSound.com that owns all the technology to putting movies over the internet, and they've already done it.
	They've already put a movie on the internet.
	I actually saw it on a computer, and if you think that television and films are now big, Wait until the country is wired, and people have high-speed either cable or high-speed ISDN lines, and they can download movies off their computer in five or six or seven minutes.
	The explosion is going to be enormous, and there'll be a lot more films that will be needed.
	And if you're 15 years old, you're coming in at just the right time, if you really love it.
	If you don't, don't try, because it's too competitive.
	There are already early indications that stars are born on the Internet.
	Look at Matt Drudge.
	Yes, that's right.
	Alright, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Stephen Simon and Art Bell.
	Hi.
	Hi, how are you guys doing?
	Just fine, sir.
	Cohen from San Diego.
	I have a request, a suggestion, some comments.
	I'll end with two quick questions but no Zappa quote this time.
	First of all my request would be if you are going to film something along the lines of
	Summer and Time or Wicked.
	What dreams may come in the near future, I would strongly request and urge you to cast Salma Hayek as the ingenue, the heroine, while she's still in her prime.
	A man with good taste.
	Oh, my goodness.
	I'm quite a film buff, and I think I've got a pretty well-rounded view of some of the films from the 30s to the present.
	I cannot think of a Hollywood actress that is more stunning.
	If I'm not mistaken, that is the basis of the 13th floor.
	My suggestion would be if you are going to, you have already put this film company together
	focusing on metaphysical films, I think a perfect book that should be brought to the
	screen would be Robert Anton Wilson's Illuminatus trilogy.
	Oh, you know, if I'm not mistaken, that is the basis of the 13th floor.
	Oh, is it?
	And that is a terrific movie.
	I had nothing to do with it, absolutely nothing to do with it.
	It is a film that I think unfortunately was not terribly well marketed and it has some
	unfortunate problems within it vis-a-vis the casting.
	But people who love this kind of film making, I think it is a great movie.
	It's gone, unfortunately, from theaters, but it'll be on video, I'm sure, relatively soon, and I believe that that is the basis for the 13th Four.
	When I saw What Dreams May Come, before I heard you way back on our show and found out that you were responsible for both Summer and Time and What Dreams May Come, I immediately flashed on Summer and Time, and then when I heard you, I can't remember how many months ago it was, it all made perfect sense.
	I'd say in my top ten films, those are the only two romances that I can think of, and I think that what I like about those films, I would imagine in songwriting and scriptwriting, those are two separate creative genres, but to write a romance and not have it come off as schmalty or overly sentimental is extremely difficult, and there's no part in either of those two films that ring untrue.
	I thank you on behalf of Richard Matheson, who wrote the screenplay and the book for Somewhere in Time, and Richard and Ron Batt, who wrote the screenplay for What Dreams May Come.
	I wince a little when anyone says that I was responsible for it, because I can tell you that, and I do not say this in any false modesty, it's just the truth.
	Filmmaking is such a collaborative medium.
	My partner Barnett and I and all of the other people, I have myself a little bit of a problem when I see a credit saying a so-and-so film as a director because I think in some ways it really discredits all of the people who contribute to it.
	But on behalf of all the people who contributed to all of these films, I thank you.
	Well, it's certainly a collaborative process and it is a testament to the writing and the direction.
	In this list of films that I would include, Summer in Time and What Dreams May Come, I mean, to give you an idea of some of my tastes in films, which I think are pretty broad or eclectic.
	Usual Suspects, Grand Canyon, there's the element of the metaphysical, but there's also, these are films that challenge your intelligence and they don't They're not predictable.
	They have twists and turns.
	My two questions that I was going to end with, obviously it sounds like Richard Matheson is still alive then.
	Oh, he's very much alive, yes.
	So you did get to see 20 years later, but as I said, please don't wait 20 years for Selma.
	Are the books still in print?
	And my last question would be, Art, I think there was a listener that called right around Thanksgiving of last year.
	Who actually faxed you and said some connections between the book, Somewhere in Time, and something about the book that Christopher Reeve, the character in the film, gets, and how that circuitously is based on an actual book.
	No, it was Bid Time Return, is what it was.
	And he actually carried that book.
	And when I talked to you earlier, Stephen, I was talking about The prop book, Bid Time Return.
	Oh, I see.
	Oh, I understand.
	Okay, great.
	Ding, ding, ding, right?
	I got it, yeah.
	And somehow that got out, and at least it was up for auction.
	You know, I will tell you a quick anecdote about Summer in Time, which you'll appreciate.
	The very first day that we were shooting on the island, we shot the scene where... Oh my goodness, I'm forgetting.
	It's late and I'm forgetting.
	She's going to have to forgive me, the ladies.
	Name that played the old woman in the movie.
	I know her last name is French, and I'm blanking.
	Unfortunately, it was 20 years ago.
	Who, you know, gives the watch to Chris?
	Yes.
	And she's such a terrific character, this woman.
	You know, it's a dramatic moment.
	She says, come back to me, the very first take of it.
	And it was a very tense moment, because we were really starting to think.
	She puts the watch in Chris's hand and she says, get this fixed.
	You're kidding!
	And we all cracked up, and that was that.
	Where's the watch?
	You know, actually, I had that watch.
	You had the watch?
	I had that watch, and it disappeared.
	It disappeared?
	I had that watch, and it disappeared.
	And I'm not going to make any more of it than that.
	I'm just going to say that it disappeared.
	Okay, we'll leave it at that.
	Oh my.
	First time caller on the line.
	You're on the air with Steven Simon.
	Hi.
	Oh, hi.
	Thanks, Art.
	Susan French.
	Sorry, I just wanted to give the actress her name is Susan French.
	Susan French.
	Caller, hold on one second.
	You know who she reminded me of?
	She reminded me of the old lady In Titanic.
	Yes.
	Yes, she does.
	Yes, you're right.
	A lot of similarities in the character portrayal.
	Okay, first time calling her on the line.
	Now you're on the air.
	Sorry.
	Stephen?
	You're going to have to yell at us, sir.
	I can barely hear you.
	Okay, is this any better?
	Real close.
	I actually can't quite hear.
	Yeah, I can't either.
	Is that better at all?
	Get right so your lips are touching the phone.
	Okay, I've got them right up against the microphone.
	Now you're cooking.
	Terrific.
	Stephen, I just happened to pick up the DIVX of Somewhere in Time the other day, and I'm very impressed with it.
	As I'm watching it, something came to mind, a book that I once read from an author called Jack Finney.
	Ah, yeah.
	Time and Again.
	Time and Again.
	Was the idea of the time travel from that book?
	Oh, no.
	Actually, Time and Again, Jack Finney and Richard Matheson always had kind of a running, laughing thing about this.
	Time and Again and Bid Time Return were published right around the same time.
	Actually, Time and Again was being developed by Robert Redford at Universal.
	At the same time, we were developing Somewhere in Time.
	It was kind of a race, one against the other, because we kind of knew they weren't going to make two time travel movies at the same time.
	Fortunately for us, we got out of the gate first, and then they just kind of abandoned Time and Again.
	I don't know if Time and Again was ever made.
	I have a vague memory.
	That maybe a TV movie was made out of it, but I'm not 100% sure.
	Well, I have left high and low for a movie on time and again.
	I think it's got potential for a great big screen movie.
	It's a wonderful book.
	Yes.
	Thanks for the information.
	I appreciate it.
	You're more than welcome.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Stephen Simon.
	Good evening, Mr. Bell, Mr. Simon.
	Hi.
	My name is Bill.
	I'm calling from the great state of Texas, listening to you on KJFK Art.
	Yes, sir.
	I just want to say how much an impetus for changing my life your movie has been.
	Again, I won't say your movie, but the movie.
	It was an excellent, excellent film.
	I can't tell you how many times we've had little coffee table chats here in Austin about this movie and about the implications for the fact that we've come to believe we really do make our own reality and most likely make our own afterlife.
	I want to ask you a couple of questions.
	First of all, have you ever seen Groundhog Day?
	Is it just me, or when Bill Murray starts to play that Rachmaninoff theme, is that kind of a somewhere in time thing going on there?
	You know, I actually don't remember that.
	I don't remember it, but I hope so.
	We all thought it went somewhere in time.
	I saw Somewhere in Time when I was eight years old.
	Wow!
	Oh my goodness!
	My dad pretty much forced me to watch the first five minutes of it, and then I was completely glued to it.
	When he sees that penny, my heart just sank, and it continues to sink.
	I was just recently married, and we went to Maui for our honeymoon, and we were at a video store in Maui, and this girl comes in and asks the guy at the front desk if they had this movie called Somewhere in Time, and the idiot says, I've never heard of that movie before, and Obama slapped him right there.
	But I helped her find it, and she ended up renting it before the end of the night.
	The question I want to ask you, first of all, was it your decision not to further develop Well, again, none of those things are ever one person's decision.
	That's a joint effort on behalf of the producers, the director, and the writer, and the financing entity, and the actors.
	It's a very hard thing to say one thing.
	That was something that we talked about a great deal, and we really decided not to do more of it.
	Simply for the sense of the pacing of the film.
	And originally, the film started off the way it was originally written.
	The film actually started off with the car accident.
	And that the entire, all of the relationships with the children and with his wife were done in flashback and kind of in a very disjointed way to give the audience the sense that the main character had, which is jumping around in time.
	We found it was very confusing for the audience.
	We actually re-edited the film to make it much more linear, and we did have a lot of conversations about should we do more with the family.
	Ultimately, for reasons of pacing and for reasons of the mystery of the film, we decided not to, but there was a lot of conversation as to whether or not maybe we should have.
	That's really interesting.
	The second part is for both of you to speculate on.
	Mr. Bell, I've listened to your show for quite some time.
	I'm really, really fond of it.
	My therapist says not to listen because she thinks it's a reason for my panic attacks.
	But I just wanted to ask you, I've listened to your shows about the afterlife and near-death experiences for quite some time.
	Yes.
	And one of the things that occurred to me and kind of my circle of friends that I talk about your show with on a regular basis, one of the things that we kind of decided was is that it's not so much what happens during the near-death experience But the part of what makes people... The question about whether or not people return and those that stay... We've come to think of the afterlife experience, the near-death experience, as kind of a play that's put on for the person that's experiencing it.
	And that the afterlife, excuse me, the near-death experience in and of itself is judgment.
	And the judgment occurs when the person says, as beautiful as this place is, I love those that I've left behind too much to allow them to live without my presence.
	And that, in fact, would be the judgment.
	But the judgment is made when they say, you know, as beautiful this place is, I have to give it up to go back with my family because they need me more than I need to be here.
	That's been the theme in so many near-death experiences that have been described on this program.
	And hey, Collar, one thing for you.
	We're going to a break here real quickly.
	I have panic attacks all the time.
	Okay.
	We'll see you later.
	Stephen Simon, we'll be right back.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Close to Close Day In.
	I've been racking my brain Oh
	Hoping to find a way out I've had enough of this continual rain
	Change is a coming, no doubt To recharge Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	1-800-825-5033. First time callers may reach out at 1-775-727-1222 or use the wildcard
	line at 1-775-727-1295. To reach out on the toll free international line, call your AT&T
	operator and have them dial 800-895-727-1222.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
	Steven Simon is here, responsible for, along with many others, many, many films.
	Somewhere in Time, What Dreams May Come, two of my all-time favorites, and I mean all-time favorites.
	We'll get back to him in a moment.
	And now, back to the best of Art Bell.
	question for Stephen.
	Stephen, just out of curiosity, you will, I'm sure, attend a number of Hollywood functions and... Much fewer than you think.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	But occasionally.
	At least occasionally, right?
	Occasionally, yeah.
	So, if at one of them, you should happen to be in the middle of some sort of function, and some really old lady came up to you and took that watch that you now don't have and put it in your hand, I wonder if your heart could handle it?
	You know what?
	I really wonder.
	I actually think it probably could.
	Because I think that my life would have been a training for that.
	I think my only problem would be at that point, Catherine would ask me why I'm going off with that old woman.
	And I would have a hard time answering.
	Well, I mean, there are things we never talked about before.
	I guess I better explain it now.
	Hey, listen.
	Here's a question for you.
	What was the date on the penny?
	1979, I believe.
	1979.
	I believe.
	How did you guys decide on that scene?
	That scene was so awesome.
	Well, that was always a part of the book.
	That was Richard's idea.
	The whole conceit of it is that he wills himself into the past by taking everything from the present out of his sight and out of his consciousness, again creating his own reality.
	Where did the watch start?
	you know that the only way to get back with the have been fine for me to be
	quick with an inadvertent now that there's a great numbed minam mind twister here
	that that no one could ever figure out uh...
	if anyone can talk with the answer with a good for them where the watch and start
	where did the watch start that's right
	you know i think i think about that point your eyes are rolling around in
	your head yes fifty-fifth attractions
	where did the watch starts will of the audience were done that now
	was the rockies are on the air with steven simon Hello.
	Hello, Steve.
	I was wondering what year the movie you made, Somewhere in Time, and Heaven Can Wait, was produced and started showing in theaters?
	Well, Somewhere in Time was produced in 1979 and came out in October of 1980.
	Heaven's Gate, now when was that?
	Heaven's Gate was right around that time, but I think it was a little bit Was Heaven's Gate a little bit before that?
	It was in the late 70s, I think, but I'm not 100% sure.
	Where can I find these movies at?
	I think both those movies, Heaven's Gate and Summertime, can both be rented.
	Summertime, I know, is available at Blockbuster and Hollywood Video.
	They always have it.
	I don't know about the smaller video stores, but I would imagine most of them do because Summertime has turned out to be quite a favorite on video and I think it's pretty much around.
	Cool.
	And also, Woody, I'd like to know your viewpoint on what happens after you die.
	All right.
	A personal viewpoint.
	Well, all right.
	This is my personal feeling, and it has no sense of truth to it or anything else.
	It's just my own feeling.
	I do believe that we go through, I think that it is a non-physical experience, and I believe that we do go through a review of our lives from a very objective standpoint without the ability to rationalize.
	And really realize what it is that we as a soul, as a being in this lifetime have learned.
	And what did we come to this life to learn?
	And did we learn that lesson?
	Have we evolved and grown?
	And then comes the whole question of do we then come back again?
	Do we want to come back again?
	Do we feel like we need to come back again and learn more in our evolution towards wherever it is we are evolving?
	Do we have a choice?
	I believe that we do.
	I believe that we have some choice.
	But I think, again, that the choice is made from a standpoint of our soul is this eternal being that has this extraordinary light and resilience to it.
	Whether that's completely our choice and what our means is that I believe that we are all multi-dimensional beings.
	What is the choice?
	By which part of us?
	When I say, without the ability to rationalize, it always reminds me of that wonderful line in The Big Chill.
	I think it's the Jeff Goldblum character who is challenging Bill Hurd, saying the ability to rationalize is a lot more important than sex.
	And Bill Hurd says, no, that's not true.
	And Jeff Goldblum says, I can prove it to you.
	Have you ever gone a day without a rationalization?
	That's very good.
	All right.
	Well, let's move.
	So many people.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air, was Steven Simon.
	Hi.
	Hey, greetings.
	This is Mark DiIorio calling from a very hot Mamaroneck, New York.
	Mamaroneck, New York.
	My fiancée and her whole family are from Buffalo.
	I'm very conscious of that, and actually, our 89-year-old grandmother is probably still listening in Buffalo at the very wee hours of the morning, so hi, Grandma.
	I hope she has some air conditioning.
	I'm usually not on the phone at this time of night because I chat on IRC about our show and listen at this time, but my ISP is down tonight because of the heat, so it's a chance to call.
	By the way, I was in my own IRC chat room yesterday.
	Oh, very good.
	And you missed me.
	Very good.
	Well, I'm on the Internet.
	We're a little weirder over there on the Internet.
	No question.
	Steve, I want to ask you, you had some really great source material to work with on these two movies, being Richard Matheson books.
	I'm 47, and Matheson has always been a big part of my life, going back to I Am Legend and, of course, his Twilight Zone stories that were adapted for the Twilight Zone.
	Let me ask you, what are the difficulties in adapting a novel to movies?
	It's a terrific question.
	It's something that is not often addressed.
	They're completely different delivery systems.
	The novel is always the personal experience of the reader, and you can insert yourself into any character that you want and envision yourself as such.
	When you have a film, it has to become very specific to the actor.
	or the actress that is playing the role.
	So you don't have that kind of freedom.
	It's a very different kind of a delivery medium.
	Reading is all in your imagination and you can imagine anything.
	Filmmaking is really in the visual imagination of the director and all of the technicians
	that are actually making the film.
	And it is much more specific, much less to the imagination and more practical than novelmaking.
	And this is why most people say, well, the movie wasn't as good as the book.
	Well, you can use the unlimited sources and resources of your imagination when you're reading a book.
	And when you're watching a film, it is a much more specific experience.
	When you are reading a book you may envision a character in it, you may envision yourself
	or someone you love or someone you know or someone you hate as a character when it is
	in a film.
	It is personified in one actor who is playing that part.
	If you didn't perceive the character as being that way then you don't love the movie as
	And there are very few exceptions to that, certainly.
	The Godfather being one of them.
	I mean, you know, I think everyone kind of acknowledges that that was a movie that was at least as good, if not better, than the book.
	But a lot of people have a problem making that transition.
	For me, Steven, it's kind of like the difference between radio and television.
	Radio is still the theater of the mind, very much.
	And television is like the movies, specific.
	Very specific.
	And you know, there are very, very, very few novelists who can make the jump and go back and forth between being screenwriters and novelists.
	Well, I was about to say, what happens generally when a novelist comes on the set?
	I mean, they end up ripping their hair out, don't they, usually?
	Well, you know, again, it depends on whether or not they understand the film grammar that we've just talked about.
	There are several people now writing.
	I mean, John Grisham, for instance.
	He never tries to adapt his own material.
	There are always writers who adapt his material.
	He understands that when you adapt the novel, you adapt the novel.
	You have to make certain changes within the novel.
	For instance, in the novel of What Dreams May Come, when the wife commits suicide, the
	children are still alive.
	It's a big change.
	That was always an enormous problem because we always had the question of how are you
	going to create sympathy for a character who is not?
	Who has a husband who's passed on and in grief commits suicide and leaves children behind.
	Right.
	It was a big problem.
	And Ron Bass came up with a solution of having the children pre-decease them and then be able to use them in the way that we did.
	And to his everlasting credit, Richard Matheson, who is one of the truly great, and I mean great, gentlemen of the world.
	When he read the screenplay, called Ron and said, you know what, if I thought about that when I was writing the book, I think I'd have done that too.
	And most novelists are not so egoist that they would admit that.
	And a lot of people who are writing books also today have the understanding, you know, look, it is an adaptation.
	If I like the movie, I like the movie.
	If I don't like the movie, I don't like the movie.
	I always have the book on the shelf.
	By the way, coming from radio, I sit here In my little Wizard of Oz studio in my home, very comfortably ensconced, loving what I do.
	I ventured out and did a little bit of television, appeared on a couple of NBC shows, and I absolutely was terrified.
	You know, here I am doing my little thing alone, and I got onto a set, an NBC set, which was a radio station.
	I was playing self, right?
	I have never!
	People have no idea!
	And the movies, there's even more!
	The amount of people that are required to produce this, the logistics, the eating, the catering, the camera people, the sound people, the grips, all these people, it scared the hell out of me!
	Yeah, it is a different experience, that's true.
	Sheesh!
	It is a different experience and usually on most films you'll shoot a 12 hour day and at the end of that you'll have gotten maybe 3 minutes of usable film.
	I know.
	I know.
	As a matter of fact on Dark Skies on NBC I was in a scene with about 12 or 13 other people and they're particularly difficult scenes because the dialogue is fast flowing and it takes just one of those people to blow their line and it's a re-shoot so we spent all day.
	Doing this thing that aired, and it was about 45 seconds long.
	Yeah.
	It is a tremendous amount of fun, as I said before.
	If you have the fire, if you really love it.
	My youngest daughter, Heather, who's 13, has this fire in her belly to be an actress.
	And a lot of my children have had, all of my children have had at one time or another, that interest, and then have kind of lost it.
	Heather has it, and she's not going to lose it.
	It's something that she is going to pursue.
	And I am going to help her with, because I know that that is something that she could not live without trying.
	If you just think it's fun, and you just think it would be a great lark, it's just, as Art said before, it's just too much rejection involved in doing these types of things, and people are going to get discouraged and stuff like that.
	If you have the fire, it works.
	You've got to be prepared for a good portion of a lifetime of rejection, because that's usually what happens.
	For example, in my case, I starved to death for a lot of years in radio, the way a lot of people in radio do, and I did not become an overnight success until about 30 years had passed.
	Yeah, that's the case.
	There's a wonderful saying in the movie business, too, that as a producer you can get very rich, but you can't make a living.
	And it's true.
	If you hit something big, you can make a lot of money, but what people don't understand is that we work along with everybody else.
	Hello.
	you know financial problems along with everybody else when we work we make an
	enormous amount of money that's true but uh... we've been a lot of time uh... as you make
	getting rejected having people tell us no
	and you really have to love what you do to keep going it's the only way
	uh... alright while carolina on the rest of his life hello hello
	uh... just uh... this is probably a pretty good segue i'm My name is Henry.
	I'm calling from Kauai.
	Kauai, and why?
	Yes, sir.
	You're one of the few people living earlier than us.
	Hold on.
	That was a double.
	Stephen?
	I'm sorry.
	I said you're one of the few people living earlier than us.
	That's true.
	That's true.
	Let's see.
	It should be about, well, coming up on 11 o'clock in Hawaii.
	That's pretty close, yeah.
	All right.
	Well, you're on the air.
	Okay.
	Well, I've written a book.
	It just took me about a year to write.
	I was so heavily absorbed in the book, I was wondering if when you work on a film, I understand you're working on this new one, Conversations with God, I was wondering if with it being a collaborative effort, you've got so many things going on, if you are able to focus on your next project while you are immersed in the one that you're in?
	Well, this is a big problem for me.
	It's an interesting question.
	A lot of producers are.
	I'm in the process in my life of also transitioning where I want to produce but I also want to direct.
	I'm finding myself really beginning to focus more and more on just doing the thing that's in front of me.
	It's very difficult if you really love the material and you really love the process to really get deeply involved in more than one thing at a time.
	We are doing Conversations with God.
	We're doing all three of those books and we're actually developing them for television.
	Again, that's another conversation that if somebody wants to get into we can talk about.
	I personally tend to really get very focused on what it is I'm doing at the moment and
	really get immersed in it.
	It's not a terribly good or beneficial trait for a producer to have.
	Frankly it's one of my challenges in life as a producer because you really need to keep
	a lot of balls in the air at the same time because you don't know where they are going
	land and you don't know what's going to get made next and I I tend to get very focused in on one or two things at a time.
	As a director, as a writer, that's really necessary.
	You really do need to focus on that.
	As a producer, you need to have a lot of different things going at the same time.
	I was wondering if I could suggest my book for some future reading for you when you do have the time.
	This is something that I actually thought about before we did this interview tonight and anticipating that.
	We get an enormous amount of material, as you might imagine, being very focused on doing just this kind of material.
	Absolutely.
	People tend to find us.
	It's not that complicated, and even though I'm not going to give the phone number out, you know, Metafilmix is located in the San Fernando Valley in California, and it's not that difficult to find it.
	If you do find it, we're a couple of months behind in our reading, but we do try to get to everything.
	I see.
	All right.
	Thank you very much.
	Okay, thank you, Caller.
	So many aspiring People out there, and your advice is the best.
	They just have to have the passion and they have to keep at it no matter what gets in the way.
	It's one of those things where you're either driven or you're driven out.
	I know you've talked about this yourself.
	You are at a place, I think, in any creative endeavor where you really have to feel that if you don't do that, you don't know what you're going to do in life.
	It's not like, well, this would be a fun thing to do.
	The reason you stayed at radio, I'm sure, is because This is who you are.
	This is what you do.
	And how could I do anything else other than this?
	Well, actually, I got out of radio.
	I said, I can't take the gypsy existence anymore.
	For six years, I built and maintained a cable company in Las Vegas.
	And I was getting paid great money, great benefits, working for a big, major corporation.
	And I couldn't stand it.
	I was bored to death.
	I went to my wife at the time, and I said, I'm going to go back in radio.
	And she thought I had lost my mind.
	I took this giant salary cut to go back into radio.
	And I just, I did it.
	And come hell and high water, I did it.
	And fortunately, some good high water came along, but... I don't know.
	I've got somebody to thank for that somewhere.
	I keep thinking about that, Stephen.
	Hold on, we're at the top of the hour and we'll be right back.
	Stephen Simon is my guest.
	And we're talking about movies, specifically his and movies in general.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This, of course, is Coast to Coast AF.
	Well, I think it's time you get ready To realize just what I have found
	I have been in only half of what I am It's all clear to me now
	🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵
	Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255, east of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033.
	Call 1-800-618-8255, east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222. And the wildcard line is open at 1-775-727-1295. To recharge on the
	toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
	Morning, everybody.
	Stephen Simon is here, and I am Art Bell.
	This is, of course, Coast to Coast AM, and boy, what a question I've got for him in just a moment.
	Let's talk about the Internet, shall we?
	Actually, we've been doing that all night long.
	Talking about the Internet and where movies are going.
	It's just about where everything is going.
	If we can all keep it together, that's a big if.
	And now, back to the best of Art Bell.
	Once again, Stephen Simons.
	Stephen, this is really interesting.
	Somebody just sent this to me.
	And I wonder, could it be, it says, Art, you know, I was just browsing somewhere in time sites, apparently there's an awful lot of sites on the internet, and saw that there is supposed to be a direct-to-video release of a sequel.
	Have you heard anything about that?
	No, that's inaccurate.
	There have been conversations over the years, and there have been requests from fans of Somewhere in Time.
	uh... if it's worth to do it a uh... equal on we have actually approached universal on this issue and
	really got universal is not interested
	uh... at least not at this time uh... they have uh...
	just not shown any interest in doing that at this point so um... there is no plan to do that
	at least that i know of now you know you never know but at least i know of it and thing
	that i could use the original i should know about it if it was happening but
	I don't know of anything at this point.
	I'm not sure how you could do it.
	Well, you know, listen, it really begs the issue of Christopher and Christopher's condition.
	Unfortunately, I think that personally for me, I think to do it would be in bad taste.
	Sometimes sequels shouldn't be done.
	No, I don't think that there is anything.
	The only way we've talked about doing it is doing it as a just about...
	Well, I better not get into that, because that involves other things.
	I think that it just... Personally, I think that because of what has happened with Chris, it would not be in good taste to do it.
	Good enough.
	Ease of the Rockies, you're on the air with Steven Simon and Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, gentlemen.
	Hi, where are you, ma'am?
	I'm in Barberton, Ohio.
	My name is Shawna.
	I have a comment and a question.
	All right.
	Okay, my comment is, I did have a...
	Well, you are one of the few people who would ever admit that.
	I've met in my lifetime very few ma'am, and you're one of them.
	So you're saying you saw hell, the edge of hell?
	Oh yes, I was there.
	I was there.
	to never ever see that again.
	You are one of the few people who would ever admit that.
	I have met in my lifetime very few ma'am and you are one of them.
	So you are saying you saw hell, the edge of hell.
	Oh yes, I was there.
	I was there.
	It was a very horrible experience and believe me I have completely changed my life around
	so I will never see that again.
	Isn't that interesting?
	I've been there.
	I've done that.
	I've seen that.
	It was horrible.
	It was like a roller coaster ride with screaming and laughing and then it was screaming and crying and it felt like I was falling and there was total blackness and then the screaming turned into complete terror and then the person that was doing CPR on my body He snapped me back, and I was back, and that was the end of that, and I completely changed my life around.
	Did you talk about it right away?
	No.
	No, it took a couple years before I got the guts to admit what happened.
	See, I made the mistake of being involved with the wrong people, and I overdosed on some... Drug?
	Yes, like a needle in my arm, and I was My heart stopped, I stopped breathing, I was dead for about three or four minutes, and the CPR brought me back, and I completely changed my life around.
	So, I will never go there again.
	Anyway, my question for Mr. Simon, sir you mentioned earlier about going independent
	and Star Trek, the people of Star Trek and everything, they have really good moral things
	going for their movies a lot of times and like the condition of humanity and I just
	wondered if there was any way that you could get the people of Star Trek on board for the
	independent filmmaking crew so that might give you a really good jump in the right direction.
	Well, it's an interesting idea.
	They certainly do terrific work, and they certainly put together a fascinating way of being able to do the subsequent Star Trek series, and it's an interesting idea.
	It's something we should think about.
	Okay, thank you.
	Thank you very much.
	Thank you for the call, and take care.
	Well, welcome to the Rockies.
	You're on the air with Steven Simon.
	Good morning.
	Yeah, good morning.
	My name's Michael.
	I'm in Phoenix.
	Yes, Michael.
	And I have a... Actually, I'd like to hear a...
	I'd like to hear a comment from you on something I have here I'd like to share.
	A few years ago, the fantasy artist and poet Patrick Woodruff compiled a book of his works called Hallelujah Anyway.
	There's a line in there I'd like to share and hear your comment on, if I may.
	It's very fitting, I think.
	The line is, time is an illusion, death is a meaningless fiction, and life is neither more nor less real than any other dream.
	So if you can, choose your own dream.
	I think that's beautiful.
	That's a mantra that I would love to see my children live by.
	We talk about this a lot and my comment about that is that that completely is consistent with my entire My entire feeling about life is that this life that we live is a grand, fascinating illusion that we project together into and about an enormous human experiment that we're involved with on this planet.
	When you come to realize, as by the way science has come to realize, that the expectation of the experimenter has an effect upon the outcome of the experiment.
	When the entire conversation that is going on in the world of quantum physics is about God, because they've finally gotten to the point where they recognize that there is this piece that they'll never quite be able to get, and when you look at a table in front of you, and again, if you listen to science, and science tells you that that table is not real, Your consciousness determines it is real because it puts all those atoms together, but it isn't really real.
	And then you step back from it and say, well, that's if you believe science, because during the Renaissance, science kind of took over as the arbiter of everything.
	And I think we're kind of going back to a period of time now where there is more balance, and people are beginning to look at issues of faith.
	Skeptics always say to me, well, you can't prove that.
	And I say, yeah, you're right.
	You can't disprove it either.
	It's just a matter of faith.
	Here's perhaps a casing point.
	You talked about the expectations of the person doing the experiment, perhaps affecting the outcome.
	Did you follow the story of cold fusion?
	Oh, sure.
	The scientists who, of course, claimed to have... They got it going.
	And they actually had it going, and Pons, I believe it was, and Fleshman, I think the names were.
	And then various other institutions tried to duplicate the experiment.
	Having success, some not having success, and that debate goes on to this very day, and you have to wonder if that process was affected by those who, and the expectations of those who ran the experiments.
	Oh, I think, you know, you look all around us in life, Art, and again, we all know people like this, you know, there are people who go around thinking that their life is awful, and that they're never going to have any luck, and the truth of the matter is, they don't.
	And then there are people who are just magical manifestors and it's nothing more than will and intent.
	And when you look at that, you realize that people do actually create their own reality.
	We are living in a world today where there are enough people who believe that and enough
	people who are fascinated with it, whether they believe it or not, who are curious about
	it, that we are going through this enormous evolution in the course of human thought and
	human belief where we are really delving into mysteries that have at this point always been
	mysteries and now we are beginning to tap parts of our brain that we have never been
	able to tap before.
	Phenomena in the world are becoming more available to us and we are beginning to understand things
	more and we are looking inward.
	It is part of the vision of Metafilmics, of our company, that after almost 100 years of
	filmmaking, almost 100 years since movies were developed, that basically all of the
	outer landscapes have already been mapped.
	That's one of the great complaints that people have about movies is that it's the same old stuff over and over again.
	That's right.
	That's because the outer stuff has been mapped.
	It's the inner stuff, the stuff about really the complexity of where we can go and who we can be, and the coming technologies where we're literally going to be able to put the audience in the experience of a movie.
	It's called immersion.
	It's a technology that is already being worked on.
	It's already there.
	It's kind of a helmet-less version of virtual reality.
	And you'll literally be able to sit in a 150-200 seat theater, maybe three to five years from now, and literally be a part of the film.
	Not interactive.
	You won't be able to affect the outcome.
	But if there's a scene that's going on between two characters at the beach, you're going to be walking along the beach with those two characters.
	Now, when that happens, When that happens, when that's available, the fascination that we have with violence and things like that will no longer be something that you can stand back from.
	People will at that point, I believe, and I have faith in this, will want to go deeper into who we really might be.
	We're on the verge of all of that blossoming.
	For me, it's an extraordinarily exciting time.
	Well, there are dangers in that as well, and I'm sure you're aware of that.
	You bet.
	There are indeed.
	All right.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Steven Simon.
	Good morning.
	Hi.
	First of all, let me say I really enjoyed James McComb.
	Thank you very much.
	Yeah, I was really glad that there was a movie like that finally in the theaters.
	Oh, thank you.
	We're grateful for that.
	Thank you.
	You're welcome.
	Let me just tell you a quick story.
	I'm in the process now of toying with the idea of actually writing a book about my experiences about fate and destiny.
	When I was 15 I had a dream about two people that would play major roles in my life.
	One of them actually I met when I was 18 and these are soul mates.
	Have you guys ever seen the movie Made in Heaven?
	Yes, sure.
	Okay, well it's kind of like at the end of the movie, I don't know if you've seen this At the end of the movie, when Kelly McGillis and Timothy Hutton finally meet, there's this tinkling sound, almost like china or crystal being tinkled in the air.
	Yeah, I remember that as well.
	Yeah, and I hadn't seen that movie until much later, maybe around 27, 28.
	But when I was 18, when I met this person, I happened to be introduced to this person, and it was the person I had dreamt of when I was 15.
	And before I even looked up, Everything that happened in that movie about the movement around them and sounds around them that slowed down.
	Everything drowned out around them.
	It was almost as if time slowed down.
	And all the tinkling that was occurring around them.
	That's exactly what happened when I met this person.
	And it floored me when I saw the movie because I knew there was someone out there.
	There must be someone out there who made this show who either had that experience or knew someone who did.
	Well, actually, you bring up a movie that the writers are very, very dear friends of mine.
	The two men who wrote that film are two extraordinary writers named Ray Gideon and Bruce Evans.
	They also wrote Stand By Me, if you remember Stand By Me, and they also wrote Starman, which is another wonderful film.
	I actually, now that you brought this up, I'm actually going to ask them whether or not Yeah, because that movie, that just really amazed me because exactly how it happened I thought, you know, I wasn't going crazy.
	I knew that it was a real experience and that someone else must have known about it someplace enough to put it in the movie.
	Well, people can sit there and say, gee, what a bunch of crackpots listening to all this.
	But you know something?
	At Princeton University right now, they're proving scientifically that the mind can have an effect on a random number generator.
	I mean, they are conclusively, scientifically proving this, that the human mind can sit there and affect a random number generator and more.
	They're doing a lot of work right now.
	So you're right when you say We're going to start looking inward, Stephen, and even the scientists are just at least beginning to look inward themselves.
	Well, we're at a place where we really kind of have to.
	Yeah, because what's left?
	There isn't much left, and we really are kind of looking at all of these big issues, and if we don't look inward and we don't look to ourselves, there has been so much disillusionment.
	Particularly in the so-called American Dream over the last 30 or 40 years, it really has gotten to the point where success has become completely equated with money.
	That means that Bill Gates has to be the most successful person in the world, but is he really?
	He certainly is the most successful at being able to make money, but is that really the only definition of success?
	I think we're all now beginning to look at saying, well, you know what?
	Maybe there's a different answer.
	And that's why there's all over the culture, all over the culture, on radio with you, in books, in movies, in television, in music.
	You know, Madonna's last album was completely spiritual.
	You have books like The Celestine Prophecy selling millions and millions and millions of copies.
	You've got Touched by an Angel on television.
	You've got films constantly that are asking these questions.
	It's all over the culture.
	This is no longer a compartmentalized thought process.
	It's mainstream.
	You, of course, saw Defending Your Life.
	Yes, and I wanted to comment on that.
	When I said nothing had ever been made in actually realized afterlife settings, I think Albert Brooks would be the first one to admit that what he did in Defending Your Life, which I found to be hysterical.
	I loved Defending Your Life.
	was not meant to really be the afterlife.
	I mean, that was comedy.
	It was done in a very simple sense, and it was to be able to tell the story.
	Yes, but it still had, it still really had the basic theme of a person judging themselves.
	Oh, it definitely had that.
	I mean, that still was very strong, strongly woven.
	Oh, it definitely did.
	It definitely had that.
	All right.
	Wild Card Line, you're on here with Stephen Simon.
	Good morning.
	Hello, Arthur.
	Hello, Stephen.
	Good morning.
	Stephen, I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit.
	Where are you, sir?
	I'm out of Chicago.
	Okay.
	You need to get a little closer to base.
	Your phone is humming like crazy.
	You know, I might have my computer on.
	That might be doing it.
	Okay.
	But I'm a talented comedian and writer from Chicago.
	I've written for the Chicago Tribune.
	And I know, Stephen, that you couldn't possibly take ideas from us to you because you'd be overwhelmed by the responses with the listeners to our show.
	But as an honor to our show, I was wondering if I could give you my email address and if you would let me run a comedy idea for a movie I had past you by contacting me.
	How do you feel about that?
	I would just give you my email address and you could just contact me and I could run it past you.
	All right, sir.
	Let's see.
	How can we do this?
	I've been touched by famous people, too.
	I've done a cable show, a public access show, where Mel Brooks' son, my producer and him, have completed together Mel's son, his first movie.
	All right.
	Send me some private e-mail.
	All right?
	Okay.
	All right.
	I just gave out my e-mail address a few minutes ago, artbell at mindspring.com.
	So fire me off some e-mail.
	That's what I would suggest.
	As a matter of curiosity, Stephen, how do you handle people gently who come to you with impassioned ideas, but they're not quite yet ready?
	Well, honestly, I have found that the two best answers in the movie business are yes and no.
	And the worst answer is the answer we usually get, which is maybe, which is awful.
	First of all, as I say, I always try to qualify everything I say, but this is just my opinion.
	I have made as many mistakes in judgment in this business as I have made good decisions.
	We're all just guessing and no one knows that there is no truth.
	So this is just one person's opinion, and then I will proceed to say this is why I don't want to pursue this for whatever reason.
	I always have asked people who give us material, and I always talk to them first, and say, look, if you want us to read this, and I need your permission to give you a completely honest answer, praise in many ways is the enemy of the writer, particularly in a very early stage.
	So in other words, tell them the truth.
	Tell them the truth.
	Good enough.
	we'll be right back i was a highwayman
	along the coached roads i did ride with sword and pistol by my side
	many a young maid lost her marbles to my trade many a soldier shed his life blood on my blade
	you The masters hung me in the spring of twenty-five.
	But I am still alive.
	I was a sailor.
	I was born upon the tide.
	With the sea I did abide.
	I sailed a schooner round the whore of New Mexico.
	I went along to the world and made some little clothes.
	And when the yards broke off they said that I got killed.
	But I'm living still.
	To recharge Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from west of the Rockies, dial 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	Call 1-800-618-8255, east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	First time callers may recharge at 1-775-727-1222, or use the wildcard line at 1-775-727-1295.
	To recharge on the toll-free international line, call your AT&T operator and have them
	dial 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
	Kind of a flashback to last night, Willie Nelson.
	That's a highwayman.
	Morning, everybody.
	I'm Art Bell and my guest is Stephen Simon.
	He'll be right back.
	And now, back to the best of Art Bell.
	All right.
	Stephen Simon, once again, kind of an interesting question for you.
	Stephen, you've made two, actually more, but two very important metaphysical films.
	I wonder if you... I mean, here we are in the last half now of the year, headed toward the end of the millennium, the beginning of something new.
	If you reflect back, how do you characterize where we've been and where do you think we're going?
	You mean as a culture or as entertainment?
	Actually, both.
	You said once that entertainment lagged reality.
	Yes.
	So, I'll accept that, but what are your reflections on where we've been and where we're going?
	Well, I personally, again this is my own personal feeling and perhaps it's a hope as well, that we have been delving into the dark shadow side of our duality for a very, very long time.
	It's very difficult to embrace and know the light unless you embrace and know the dark.
	If you deny the dark, that's when tremendous violence happens.
	And what I personally hope and believe is that we're coming to a period of time now where we're going to be able to embrace much more of the light side of our being, which is the creative, magical, positive side of our being.
	I am not one of those that believe that the lack of prognostications of the future of mankind coming to an end in the next ten or twelve years has anything to do with the end of the world.
	In a cataclysmic way, I personally believe that it means it's going to be the end of the world from the way we used to know it and a new evolution of being that is really going to be extraordinary.
	I am a very, very, very hopeful person and I believe that we're about to go into something really beautiful for those, again, who choose it.
	I think there will be people who choose the dream and there will be people who choose the nightmare.
	If you believe that you create your own reality, that's where you'll be.
	And that's right in line with exactly what you've done.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Stephen Simon.
	Hi.
	Good morning, Mr. Bell.
	Hi there, sir.
	Mr. Simon?
	Good morning.
	To both of you, I appreciate your morning program.
	It's a wonderful program and quite enlightening.
	And I really, really want to thank both of you for, even this 53-year-old man, who has seen a lot of life, all the way from where I was born in Nazi Germany to Brazil, where I was under A quasi-military government to this country, and I bless this country.
	My point coming is that even at my cynical age of 53, I always like to revert back to that faith-saving aspect of my inner spirit called imagination and romance.
	And to both of you, Mr. Bell and Mr. Simon, I want to tip my hat off to both of you for bringing that even to those of us who are in our old age, not just for the young, but to maintain that spirit To be able to write poetry and so on, to have that hope flicker, to continue with our better side of ourselves, I'll put it that way, and bring in reality and the hopes and dreams, and making them come true.
	Well, thank you very much.
	That is quite a compliment, and that is what your movies have done for people.
	I thank you for that.
	I'm very moved by it.
	I have one parenthetical comment to make on behalf of both Art and myself, because we We're right around that age.
	That ain't old age.
	Thank you.
	Thank you very much.
	I've actually got a year on him.
	I'm 54 now.
	And I was just 53 last week, so we're right around that ballpark.
	It's an interesting age.
	It's a reflective age.
	It is indeed.
	Wild Card Line, you are on the air with Steven Simon.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	This is Gabriel in LA.
	Yes, sir.
	Um, Stephen, I love what you're doing with your work in the industry.
	Thank you.
	I'm also a screenwriter and I focus... Well, are you familiar with Sean David Morton by any chance?
	I'm sorry?
	Sean David Morton?
	No.
	Have you heard of him?
	No.
	Well, he was a frequent guest and may be again.
	Yeah, I actually produced his talk radio show when he was on another network until he just left.
	Oh, you did?
	Yeah.
	I booked pretty much all of his guests, you know.
	It was a show similar to this one.
	Yeah, very similar.
	Anyway, your question was?
	Well, I was wondering, do you have a production company, Steven?
	Well, that's what Metatomic is.
	Oh, okay, great.
	Metatomic is the production company.
	And do you get a lot of scripts piling up there?
	I sure do.
	You sure do?
	Do you have a lot of readers to help you out with the work?
	Well, actually, my partner and I try to do As much of it as we can ourselves, it's getting fairly unwieldy.
	This is not like trying to read an action movie or a comedy.
	When you're talking about the kind of subject matter that metafilming deals with, we're very protective of trying to give everybody at least a proper hearing.
	Unfortunately, most of the material everywhere, and it's not just this kind of material, most of the material everywhere is pretty weak.
	Writing has fallen to a pretty low level in general, and that's because writers are not being developed.
	Writing a screenplay is a very, very collaborative process.
	It really needs nurturing, and there's not a lot of it going on.
	I don't know if this is the most appropriate way to ask you this, but I could have just called the Directors Guild and gotten your information through them.
	That's probably the best way to do it, too, by the way.
	Either that or the Hollywood Creative Directory.
	Okay, well then I'll do it that way.
	All right.
	Very good, sir.
	Thank you.
	You know, I'm a member of SAG now.
	I had to do that.
	Oh, good for you.
	And I just got a big check the other day for some sort of residual.
	I've never had a 59-cent check before.
	I appreciate your show and I just love listening to it.
	Right now I'm on 44 in Missouri on my way to Fort Leonard Wood.
	I just want to say how much I appreciate your show and I just love listening to it.
	Thank you.
	Where are you?
	Right now I'm on 44th and Missouri on my way to Fort Leonard Wood.
	I have a question about a movie that's supposed to be coming up.
	You all talking about how the way people reflect on movies and all.
	I've always found satisfaction in the history.
	I thought the remake of Gettysburg was one of the most moving because it shows us where we've been and what it took to get where we are today.
	And life is good.
	The root doesn't leak.
	I'm not hungry and I don't know what there is to complain about.
	Well, if you want to reflect on a time when there was something to complain about, watch the Saving Private Ryan.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, that's for sure.
	I'm still not over that motion picture.
	Yeah, it's very disturbing.
	Very, very disturbing.
	And unfortunately, rather accurate, I'm afraid.
	Everybody should be forced to watch that at least once.
	Yes, good morning Mr. Bell and Mr. Simon.
	Fantastic show, I'm really enjoying it.
	I'm calling from Tucson, Arizona.
	My name is Richard and I am a crisis and suicide counselor.
	So I deal with some very heavy subjects and some people that feel that there's just no purpose to their life.
	One of the things, just a comment here, that I try to explain to them, I tell them that's not what they were created for, to self-destruct.
	And then we evolve from that point on to work from within as opposed to working from without, which seems to happen with a lot of us.
	We think it's always external based.
	Something out there is going to make us happy.
	And so I find that what you're talking about here is really the essence of what's our purpose and what's our passion at this moment.
	And my compliments to you.
	Somewhere in Time was an excellent production.
	It just was a really well-crafted movie.
	In fact, my mom's got it and I will go back and review that because it's been some time.
	John Barry's score was outstanding.
	Thank you.
	The other part here is that Viktor Frankl comes to mind.
	I read his book, Man's Search for Meaning, and what was so poignant about Viktor Frankl was the fact that you can take everything else away from you in life but the ability to choose what you want to think.
	He illustrated that in his dialogue in that book.
	One question for you.
	I had rented What Dreams May Come and I had it for five days.
	I did not see it because I believe it had the R rating.
	I took it to the family and they said, we are not looking at R rated films.
	Is that correct?
	No, it was PG-13.
	It was?
	Okay, then they had it mismarked at Blockbuster.
	I'm sorry, I will go back and get that.
	I was wondering why do they put an R rating on such good films when more people could
	be exposed to it?
	I know.
	I wish I could have done that.
	I'm sorry.
	We were very careful about that.
	We wouldn't allow it to be an R. I think that within the work that you do, I don't know how much of the show you've heard, we talked a lot about the suicide aspect of this.
	I think that you'll find a lot to talk to your clients, your patients about.
	I don't know.
	meaning of life because a lot of people, particularly young people, and it's a tragedy in our society
	that there are so many suicidal young people, they really believe that that will end their
	suffering and end the pain that they are going through.
	If they really determine that it's not going to do that, that it's just going to make it
	more difficult for them as they transition and realize that they chose to come here,
	it can be a very comforting factor because then you can really choose to live your life
	in a different way.
	We've had a lot of very gratifying results from that, particularly young people who have
	tried to commit suicide before and have seen this film and have really realized that it's
	not a particularly appetizing option.
	I've always wanted to ask this of somebody in your business, and that is, the rumor on
	the street is that...
	If you make a motion picture, which is perhaps PG-13, if you just throw a scene in to get yourself an R rating, it's worth X number of million dollars more at the box office.
	It's actually worth less.
	Really?
	Sure.
	And this is one of the nice things that's happening now.
	I think one of the positive things that's happening in our business.
	R-rated movies are very difficult in a lot of parts of the country.
	It has been a very lenient thing in big cities where people who are not supposed to get into R-rated films have been able to get in, but it's becoming much more difficult to be able to get into an R-rated film if you're not 17 or literally accompanied by an adult.
	There is such a huge audience there of people who go to movies constantly who are 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 years old.
	That unless the material really demands it, like saving Private Ryan could never be a PG-13 movie.
	Of course not.
	But if you can't... Most people who can avoid the R, avoid the R. So, that was once true and is not true now?
	Yes, that's correct.
	First time caller on the line, you're on there with Steven Simon.
	Hi.
	Hello?
	Hello there.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Yeah, my radio's off.
	Okay, good for you.
	This is Nancy Leigh.
	I'm calling from Hawaii.
	Nancy, I still hear your radio or something.
	It's my TV.
	I guess I'll turn it off.
	It's your TV, alright.
	Hello?
	Yes.
	Go right ahead, Nancy.
	Hi.
	I'm calling from Hawaii.
	And I'm a first-time caller.
	Right.
	And I wanted to tell Art that I listen to him every night and I tell everybody to listen to him.
	Thank you.
	And I'm hoping that he's going to be back full-time because there's nobody like him.
	Very kind of you, thank you.
	I wanted to ask Stephen, I have a true story that happened to me that would absolutely make a fantastic movie.
	It would change the way people think all over the planet.
	Well, that's quite a claim.
	Well, it is.
	It happened to me personally.
	And it's changed my life, and I know that it would have changed a lot of other people's lives, and I was wondering if there's any way I could get hold of you to give you this idea.
	Well, as you said, we're trying not to give out a phone number or even an address because they are so swamped with stuff.
	But if you want him to read it, I think his answer was, you'll find a way to find him.
	That's right.
	You know, people have It's not a great mystery.
	There's not a booming film business in North Dakota, so we're not in North Dakota.
	It's not that difficult to find us if you're meant to find us.
	But what I would really suggest is that you try to find somebody who is a lawyer or an
	agent or somebody along those lines who can help you get your idea down on paper and get
	it organized and get it protected from copyright infringements and things like that.
	Then try to find the proper people to read it.
	If we are the proper people you will find its way to us.
	I can tell you that we are developing something now that we are definitely going to make that
	found its way to us by somebody who just heard about us and decided that he wanted to find
	us and he did.
	He sent us a script and it took us two months to read it and it was one of the few that
	we have read that we really like and we are actually going to wind up making that film.
	So these things do happen.
	You must have the same problem I do.
	When I was on one radio station for many, many years, I could always read the material.
	I would get emails or faxes or whatever, letters.
	I could always take care of it all myself.
	Now, I'm on nearly 500 radio stations, and it's all overwhelming.
	And my wife helps as best she can.
	But you know what?
	I still have to do it myself.
	Yeah, it's very hard not to.
	I still have to.
	And if I lost touch with that, I'd lose touch with my program.
	I don't think anybody else can do it for me.
	That's not how I got here.
	And I doubt that's how I'm going to stay here, so I still have to sort of read about all the, you know, the possible guest material and all the rest of it, and read all the nasty letters I get and the good ones, and try and decide if it's about the right combination.
	I still have to do it myself.
	East of the Rockies.
	We don't have a lot of time.
	You're on the air with Stephen Simon.
	Good morning.
	I enjoy the program very much, and listen to you ever since it's been on.
	Oh, thank you.
	I'm a time traveler.
	Anything you want to ask me, you cover just about everything.
	I found out being a time traveler that God is God and Jesus Christ is God and that's it.
	And I even preached Jesus to space people on a spacecraft and got very easily let off and thrown back into my body.
	It was 30 years ago.
	It leaves me in a position where, how come they don't believe?
	How come they don't believe?
	Well, they actually do.
	They told me that Jesus Christ is the word of God.
	He's not a man or he's not a person.
	He is the word.
	He is the law.
	And the law is repent because time is so short that you could not believe it.
	I don't think you have time to make another movie, Stevie.
	Alright, I appreciate the call, but you know what?
	I don't share the view.
	It's kind of like repent now and or burn in hell and I appreciate your Point of view, and your belief in saying that, but I don't share that scary aspect of God.
	No, and neither do I. It has been wonderful, wonderful having you on the show.
	Oh, it's been a lot of fun.
	And you've got a great constitution to be able to handle it for this many hours.
	Oh, it's a well, listen, you make it very easy, and just personally between the two of us, thank you for the music.
	Oh, you're very welcome.
	Thank you.
	You know, Art plays music for his guests while we're holding on the phone, while the commercials are on.
	And the music, I was listening to Stevie Nicks, and I listened to Willie Nelson, and Gordon Lightfoot.
	And if you choose the music, then you and I have the same taste.
	And I thank you for that a lot, and thank the listeners.
	And one last thing I'd like to say to everybody, please follow your dreams.
	That's it.
	That's the only way you're ever going to get there.
	Stephen, good night.
	Good night, Art.
	There you have it.
	And for the record, yes, oh yes, I indeed choose my own music.
	And have been sort of compiling it for years now.
	The best of what I love and what means something to me.
	So, let me ask you that as a clear yes.
	Okay, that's it for now, everybody.
	But tomorrow night, a fascinating program.
	I guarantee you're not going to want to miss.
	And just a little trickler for you.
	On the 27th of this month, there is going to be A paradigm-shifting announcement on this radio program.
	I'm Art Bell, from the high desert.

▲