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May 26, 1999 - Art Bell

02:43:40

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Flying Triangles - Various Topics - Jeffrey Mishlove - Consciousness - Peter Gersten - Lawsuit

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	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 26th, 1999.
	From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning wherever you may be in this great land of ours.
	Commercially from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands in the West, Eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, South into South America, North all the way to the Pole and worldwide on the Internet.
	With streaming video, as well as audio, thanks to a broadcast.com that distributes at the video end of it, concocted by Intel Corporation.
	Thank you both.
	Go to my website, get the G2 Player.
	It's free, you know.
	And then, come back to my website, after you've installed the software, and click on streaming video, and you will see me here doing the program.
	How interesting it is to watch a talking Smoking head do five hours of a radio program I think is up for grabs, but a lot of people seem to be doing it So if you wish to do so you are more than welcome I have I have a very troublesome sad announcement I have now received from at least a dozen sources, and I'm trying to confirm it But I believe it to be so I pray not but I believe it to be so that
	Terrence, my friend Terrence McKenna in Hawaii is gravely ill.
	He's in the hospital now, and I don't want to say anything more and won't say anything more until I get confirmation of the information I'm receiving.
	But if true, it's very sad indeed.
	So if anybody out there has a phone number for a spokesperson and or a hospital contact in Honolulu, that's where he is said to be in the hospital.
	I would appreciate any information I can get on Terrence, and I will pass it on to you.
	So many good people lately, have you noticed?
	In a moment coming up is Peter A. Gersten, attorney at law and founder and current director of CAUSE.
	Citizens Against UFO Secrecy.
	He'll be here in the first hour, and then Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove in the next hour.
	It's going to be a very, very interesting night.
	One more announcement, and that is a very important one.
	Tomorrow night is going to be a program that I think many of you have been waiting for.
	Though it may not disclose everything about the personal crisis that still is going on in my life, It will give you great insight tomorrow night into what has been going on recently within the last year or so in my life.
	And I urge you to tell your friends that tomorrow night is one you do not want to miss.
	The information on that program will begin at 11 o'clock tomorrow night.
	That's all I have to say on the subject.
	Peter Gersten, coming right up.
	As most of my audience knows, my wife and I had a very significant close encounter with an object that was
	completely inexplicable, a large triangle, moving, defying gravity, not flying, directly over our heads.
	I mean, a really close encounter.
	I have provided Peter Gersten now, after much delay, with a signed affidavit Notarized signed affidavit of the sighting that my wife and I had.
	We both have provided those affidavits to Peter Gersten.
	They should be in his possession now.
	Are they, Peter?
	Yes, they are, my friend, and I want to thank you very much.
	You are a person that backs up what he says, and I appreciate that.
	If everybody was like that, Well, then I would have a lot more affidavits, but thank you very much, my friend.
	You're very much welcome.
	It was the absolute truth, and as they always say, truth is the best possible defense one could have.
	In a lot of cases.
	Welcome back to Sedona, Rafa.
	Yes, indeed.
	Well, listen, what is new in the world of cause, Peter?
	Well, I have one question for you.
	Let me ask you, somebody can go onto the Internet Download streaming video and watch you for the five hours you're on the air at night?
	They can.
	Why would they want to do that?
	I don't know.
	That's my question.
	Okay, and also... I have no idea, but a lot of people are doing it.
	I guess it's a morbid curiosity.
	Well, let me ask you.
	When I talk, do you then, you know, go on to a photo of me that's there?
	Well, if we had a connection to you, we could do that.
	If I had a little photo of you, I could hold it up.
	What you need now is some guests in studio.
	Would you go for that?
	Well, actually, no.
	Okay.
	No, I like my little cubbyhole here.
	That's what I figured.
	You know, plus, on the radio, it doesn't matter.
	In other words, as people listen to your voice right now, where is it you are, Peter?
	Sedona.
	Sedona, Arizona, right.
	It doesn't matter that you're in Sedona, because this is radio.
	Now, if I was Ted Koppel, I'd have a problem.
	Okay, but it matters to me that I'm in Sedona.
	Well, it's a good thing you're in Sedona.
	There's something special about Sedona.
	I think so.
	Well, let me start off by saying I have cause for concern tonight.
	You know that cause has this lawsuit that you just mentioned against the Department of Defense, and you know that the Department of Defense Um, has already told cause that it has no information on these flying triangles that you and Ramona saw, as well as thousands of other people over the last 20 years.
	Yes.
	You know, this object is so unique and so unusual that just its presence and existence, you would think that the Department of Defense would have information about it.
	Well, you would also think if the Department of Defense, um, in fact had been behind this for 20 years, I mean, They couldn't keep the stealth secret.
	How could they keep this secret?
	They didn't even produce documents and say they were classified.
	They said they had no information.
	So the bottom line is, I don't like not knowing.
	They should have information on this object.
	And what's worse, Arthur, what's worse?
	That they are lying, or that they are telling the truth, and they really don't have any information?
	I think it's worse if they're telling the truth.
	Yeah, I think so too, and it's really hard to believe that such an object that's been around so long, that they do not have information about it.
	Well, that would be frightening, because that would mean that us common folk walking about seeing these things, are witnessing an invasion.
	Oh, exactly.
	Um, an invasion under Article 4, Section 4 of the U.S.
	Constitution, which the federal government is mandated to protect the states against.
	Right.
	I don't see any protection at all.
	So, what happened now in the Department of Defense case, the U.S.
	Attorney, who represents the Department of Defense, has now moved to preclude, to prohibit cause from doing what is normally done in any civil action, and that is discovery.
	At this particular time in a lawsuit... Why?
	How the hell can they do that?
	Because they are saying that it is unnecessary because they are about to make a motion to dismiss the case again.
	And that motion will be the positive of the action.
	So there's no reason to go to the time and expense of taking depositions, of sending out interrogatories, or production of documents.
	They're saying it's a waste of the government's time and the waste of CORE's time.
	Now, but how can they do that based on the notion that they will be successful in a motion to dismiss?
	Basically, what they're saying is that CORE should not be allowed any discovery until they submit the motion for summary judgment, which is the motion to dismiss.
	At that time... Well, that means they're scared, Peter.
	Well, I don't know if they're scared or they're just trying to Deny court certain rights that any other plaintiff would have in any other lawsuit.
	And all I want to do right now, basically... Isn't that kind of like prior restraint?
	Well, there's authority that they can do that.
	But it's weak authority.
	We have a meeting with the judge on February 14th, and all they want to do... The judge said that this meeting will be to decide On what Discovery Cause will be allowed to do.
	And what was the date of the meeting?
	February 14th.
	February 14th.
	I'm sorry, June 14th.
	June 14th.
	Yeah, it's, you know, in a couple weeks the meeting.
	So basically that meeting was for us to decide what Discovery, what I can do.
	The U.S.
	Attorney wants to limit that hearing only to set a date for the summary judgment motion.
	Wow.
	The U.S.
	Attorney doesn't even want to talk about Discovery.
	So I'm going to go in, I'm going to ask for a couple things.
	I have, I'm preparing 40 interrogatories.
	That doesn't take any, any expense.
	In other words, all you have to do is just send it to the Department of Defense.
	They're going to ask for 30 days time to prepare their motion to dismiss.
	I then have 30 days to answer.
	So that's 60 days from February 14th.
	So I'm going to ask to go from June 14th.
	I don't know why I keep on, what is that, Valentine's Day or something?
	You know, something must have happened to me on February 14th.
	But in any event, I'm going to say to the judge, Judge, let me let the Department of Defense answer the interrogatories in the 60 days it's going to take for me to answer my motion for summary judgment.
	We have nothing to lose.
	And I'm going to take, I'm going to, I'm thinking seriously about taking one deposition of a non-party witness.
	In other words, somebody not connected to the Department of Defense.
	And you know who that person is?
	I do?
	Yeah, that person is Dr. Steven Greer.
	Oh, Dr. Greer.
	Dr. Greer has said on your show and on at least two occasions over the last two years that he has approximately 200 witnesses that have information about what the government is hiding.
	That's right, yes.
	So, I think that we've gotten to the point that that information should not be kept secret.
	In other words, I don't think that the government or the military should keep secrets.
	I don't think any UFO researchers should keep secrets.
	And Dr. Greer can't even rely on national security.
	He has no protection whatsoever.
	So I'm going to serve him with a subpoena, it looks like, and we're going to find out how many witnesses he has, and I want the ability... You're going to serve Dr. Greer with a subpoena?
	Yeah, for a deposition.
	I want to take his deposition.
	I want the names of the 200 witnesses that he has.
	Do you feel that under those rather intimidating conditions, he would release that information, or are you going to put him Back him against a wall.
	No, I've sent him inquiries on two occasions.
	I sent him an inquiry about two months ago asking for his help, and I sent one about a month after that.
	Right.
	I have no choice now.
	Did you get any response?
	Yeah, I got a response.
	Too busy.
	Too busy?
	To talk to all 200.
	He doesn't know what to have to say.
	Oh, I see.
	I said, I'll talk to them.
	I'll talk to them and find out what they have to say.
	And when I talk to them, I'll keep it confidential.
	So then you simply wanted the names?
	I want to know the names.
	First I asked him, just tell me the ones that are involved in Triangles, the ones that tell you something about Triangles.
	Right.
	But then he came back and said he doesn't really know, there's just too many witnesses.
	So I said, okay, just give me the names and I'll call them.
	Right.
	And he sent me the same basically email back that he's too busy to call them all.
	So I think now's the time because I have certain affidavits and I can prove that This object exists, okay?
	But then you have to make the connection, the jump, from that this object exists and the Department of Defense having information on it.
	Brother, you don't have to tell me.
	It flew over my head.
	Okay, the judge is going to say, what's the evidence to show the Department of Defense has information on this object that exists?
	And that's when you're going to yank out your signed statements.
	The affidavits will establish the existence of the object.
	Yes.
	The judge will then say, okay, I will accept the affidavits at face value.
	Okay, I now believe this object exists.
	Still, you haven't proved that the Department of Defense has information on this object, and that a reasonable search would have uncovered it.
	All they have to do, the Department of Defense, under the Freedom of Information Act, is a reasonable search.
	They don't have to do an exhaustive search, only a reasonable search.
	And they're going to submit affidavits, and they're going to maintain their search, no matter what it was, was reasonable.
	Here's my question for you.
	Let's say they already said they did a cursory or a reasonable search, right?
	Yeah.
	Now, if something is highly classified, that's the world we're dealing in here, with highly classified material.
	I mean, we must assume that if the Defense Department Does, in fact, have information on this.
	If it's ours, in other words, then they have information.
	Even if it isn't ours, they've got information.
	They have to.
	I agree.
	Now, if it is a highly classified project, Peter, do they have the authority to lie?
	In other words, is there any legal action you can take that they cannot Legally or constitutionally respond to with a lie?
	Well, all the affidavits are under oath subject to perjury.
	Penalties of perjury.
	Sure.
	I would have to show by extrinsic evidence that they are lying.
	In other words, if somehow some document came into my possession that was obvious that they should have found these pursuant to a search, a reasonable search, and I can show that, then of course I can reopen the case on newly discovered evidence and then go forward from there.
	But, actually, let's assume that there's a classification that the searches in the FOIA do not have privy to because they do not have that security clearance.
	Is that a reasonable assumption?
	Oh, of course it is.
	In other words, all they have to do is a reasonable search.
	The definition of reasonable search might not reach into the file cabinets of above-top-secret documents.
	Gotcha, of course.
	Yes.
	What's also important is that the FBI This week, I decided my appeal.
	The FBI searched their files for any information on alien abductions and didn't find any again.
	So I appealed that and the administrative appeals section of the CIA said that no, they were right in deciding there are no documents.
	I also requested from the DOD alien abduction information and They responded, they don't have any information, then I appealed that, they haven't even answered in six months.
	That's incredible!
	Also, the CIA, I put in a request for alien abduction information, the CIA doesn't have anything, I appealed that, it's still been six months since they have answered my appeal.
	And then, there's evidence of human experimentation.
	There were reports... I understand.
	You know, our own species, that there's evidence of experimentation.
	Which would constitute civil rights violations, which would make it federal.
	It's so obvious.
	Now, you know, it's a great cover story.
	With this cover story that's alien abductions, then nobody has to even look at it, and it keeps on going on and on, unrestricted.
	Let me ask you a question, Peter.
	What would constitute information in their files?
	For example, if somebody had gone to the FBI, And they said to the FBI or any other agency, I was abducted, parts of my body, you know, I was experimented upon.
	If they went to the FBI with that kind of a story, would the FBI, as a matter of natural course, have a report that it would keep on that complaint?
	Well, it used to keep these reports.
	I have an FBI report about somebody who reported being, not abducted, but coming in contact with a UFO, going aboard a UFO, coming in contact with aliens, and then being dropped off, and that was reported to the FBI.
	I forgot what year, I think it was in the 50s, so I have that report.
	I don't know if these reports, I don't know if the people reporting their experiences to the FBI, I would doubt it.
	The fear of ridicule, and they don't even tell me A lot of the reports, and I share them, so it's hard to believe that people are going to report it to the FBI.
	And the bottom line is, basically there are only reports.
	I get those reports.
	It's like watching a UFO and then calling the Air Force, and that goes to the DOD.
	I'm not interested in reports.
	I'm interested in the agency's investigation of these reports.
	Yes, of course.
	And their policies and procedures in reference to the Black Triangles and in reference to what is happening.
	Alright, let's take abductions as an example.
	If you had people who came to you and said, look, Peter, I went to the FBI after I was abducted.
	And they signed affidavits.
	And the FBI was saying, well, we have no information on abductions.
	What do you have then?
	Well, then I have a method of discovery.
	I would find out where they keep this particular report.
	In other words, when it was filed, I would have them search, looking for this report, and hopefully in the file cabinet or in the computer banks, there would be other reports.
	You see, I don't have a project name, either for the triangles or for the abductions.
	I can't ask them to search a certain file cabinet or a certain computer bank.
	So what I did in both cases, in the triangles, I described the triangles.
	I gave them sketches from the eyewitnesses, artist renditions, and a photo.
	And in the abduction scenario, what I described is any other typical criminal act.
	In other words, I described the act, and I described the perpetrator.
	Gotcha.
	Alright, stay right there, Peter.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	My guest is an attorney.
	At law, Peter A. Gersten, also director of CAUSE, an organization that is seeking, through a legal redress, through our system, to force our Justice Department, our alphabet agencies, to disclose what they know.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to ArcBell, somewhere in time.
	tonight featuring a replay of coast to coast am from may twenty sixth
	nineteen ninety nine the
	the the
	the the the the the
	you're listening to work well someone's home Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 26th, 1999.
	Peter A. Gersten is here, an attorney-in-law, director of CAUSE, Citizens Against UFO Secrecy.
	And he asked, as I have asked, the same question.
	Hey Art, why would people watch you on a streaming video?
	Kathy in Fort Lauderdale, Florida just sent me an email that says, Hey Art, we watch you just because we can.
	so uh...
	apparently they watch for the same reason that people climb mountains
	alright once again i'm getting uh... just besieged with messages that uh...
	terrence mckenna is a gravely ill Terrence, as you know, is a friend of mine and he's in Hawaii.
	And the messages say he's in the hospital with a grave illness.
	Now, I don't want to say any more than that because I have been killed off on the Internet probably going on a dozen times now, yet here I remain.
	So these things are not always true.
	I fear this might be.
	I pray it is not.
	If anybody has direct information and could give me a phone number, Or a contact by email.
	Please email.
	Send me email.
	Not the announcements, because I've got a million of those.
	But what I would like is some sort of spokesperson that I could call in Hawaii.
	If you are of that sort, then please email me at Artbell at AOL.com.
	Artbell at AOL.com.
	Back now to Peter Gersten.
	Peter, welcome back.
	Hello, Arthur.
	Sorry to hear about Terrence.
	If it's true, he was one of my favorites.
	Brilliant, brilliant man.
	I'm praying it's not true, but I'm afraid.
	Because, you know, sometimes these things... God knows about the Internet.
	As somebody I know once said recently, on the Internet you could be a dog.
	I'm going to pray it's not true.
	Anyway, Peter, let us continue.
	Let me just ask you one quick question.
	Now that the fact is that people can see you as you talk, has that affected what you wear?
	No, it's just stopped me from picking my nose.
	Okay, and did you pump up, like, before you go on the air or anything like that?
	No.
	No, I sit here in my, in my mediocre splendor.
	Okay.
	No, I just, you know, I just, it's like I ignore it.
	I ignore the cameras there.
	People want to watch?
	Fine.
	If they, if they don't, fine.
	The only answer I got from this young lady in Florida was we watch because we can't.
	Well, good luck with it.
	It's been going on for months, Peter.
	Oh, for months?
	Oh, yeah.
	Every night.
	Well, good luck.
	See?
	Lots of things go on that you don't know about.
	I guess so.
	That is true for everybody in this reality, unfortunately.
	Yes, indeed.
	There's a lot of things that go on that we're not aware of.
	Yes.
	But what we are aware of is that we're coming in contact with another form of intelligence, and that is being ignored.
	There's simply no question about it.
	There is one other quick issue I would like to bring up with you, and something like you need something else to look into.
	Okay.
	There is significant amounts of evidence, Peter, that there are biological experiments going on.
	And I think you're probably aware of some of what's been flowing around about that.
	And there's a definite history of the U.S.
	government experimenting biologically on its own citizens.
	I mean, we know that to be a fact.
	So, I wonder if that's something you could just sort of file in a corner or something to work on one day?
	Well, one of the Interest that I do have is that trying to find out whether there's a section of the United States Code that requires the Department of Defense to notify the states before they conduct any kind of biological research and experimentation.
	Yes, or at least there was.
	There is or was.
	Exactly.
	If I find out that that law is still in effect and wasn't repealed, then I will bring a Freedom of Information request to the DOD asking if they have notified in the last five years any states Under that provision.
	I wonder if these agencies have what they call a pest file, and if you're in their pest file.
	Here comes Raid.
	I don't know.
	I could be less concerned about that.
	What I want to talk about for a couple of minutes, and I want to get your feedback as we go along on this, I want to share some of your thoughts.
	Sure.
	The one thing that differentiates our life form from all the other life form on this planet is one particular unique characteristic.
	That is the ability and use of technology.
	I think technology plays a large part in what is occurring to us now, and what that virus is that is affecting this reality.
	Now, no other life form has technology whatsoever, and for a large part of our evolution, we did not have technology.
	Now, I don't know exactly, you know, if you had a calendar or a timeline, how long we have been on this planet and how long we did not have technology versus how long we have it now.
	Now, without getting into those, you know, artifacts that people are finding that seem to be out of place, such as what is Michael Cremo and Van Donnegan talks about and a lot of other people talk about, that maybe there was a technology way back Let's stick with what we consider technology here.
	No other civilization, it would seem, had this technology.
	It's relatively new, isn't it?
	How old is technology?
	How long have we had technology?
	It's relatively new in the scheme of things.
	So now the question is whether the intrusion, I would say, or the introduction of technology within this life form, is that a natural occurrence?
	Or did that happen because of some intrusion, invasion of something?
	Okay?
	Now, even assuming that that's a natural evolution of our particular life form, that at a certain part in its evolution it acquires the knowledge for technology, it seems that something happened in 1947.
	Yes.
	Something was introduced into this reality in 1947 That wasn't a natural progression of this particular life form.
	And it seemed to involve a more advanced, a more futuristic, a higher technology than was the natural evolution up until that time.
	That's the stories we hear.
	That's what Colonel Corso talked about.
	A technology that had to be reverse-engineered in order to introduce it into this society.
	Now, it just seems to appear, to me at least, That unless a life-form is at a certain stage of its evolution, spiritually and emotionally, it cannot handle this type of technology.
	And I see that's what's happened to us.
	We are a life-form.
	Humanity is a life-form that is not in harmony with the environment.
	It is not respectful of other life-forms.
	That's correct.
	It engages in tribal warfare.
	And when you introduce an advanced technology ahead of the normal progression of the life form, then something happens.
	A virus happens.
	Yeah, you have violated the prime directive.
	Exactly.
	Yeah, sure.
	Exactly.
	Something is wrong here.
	There is a violation.
	I think we see evidence of that.
	In these objects in the skies, in these alien abductions, which is basically human experimentation, whether it's alien or whether it's ourselves doing it, and we know we're capable of experimenting on our own species.
	Yes, we do.
	The thing is, though, what's significant about it, is it seems that as difficult it is to accept, is that we are here in this particular time period, To try to change something that has been put into motion that will affect future generations.
	Something is happening.
	In other words, we are giving our power up to this technology, to this machine.
	The machines of the future are probably a life form of some kind, maybe a combination of organic or inorganic.
	And something is about to happen.
	And something started in the 40s, and I think certain people have been born into this time frame in this particular movie, In order to become aware of this, because we're getting messages.
	We're getting messages in our own movies.
	Somehow, something is sending messages to us.
	To us directly, in our movies, that this is what... Did you see Matrix yet?
	No, I have been told by 10 million people to see it, and I will see it as soon as it arrives in Europe.
	The special effects are amazing, but the stories that are coming down through our science fiction, through our fantasy movies, are giving us messages about what's happening.
	Well, I certainly agree with one thing, Peter, and that is that 1945, or thereabouts, was the beginning of a gigantic, just inexplicable change in the rate of technological advance.
	There's a great case for that, all of that to be made.
	Things happen that should not have happened in normal progression.
	And so something happened then.
	There's no question about it.
	I think that whether it actually happened or whether it was a symbol created to give us the message that something changed then.
	I think that's the point that we have to focus on as a symbolic message that there is a technology That was introduced into this life, this reality that has no right to be here.
	That which you call a virus in our reality.
	I'll never forget that as long as I live.
	And I think also what we're seeing, let me ask you a question.
	When you and Ramona saw that object, well Ramona's not on the air, you're on the air.
	When you were under that thing or near that thing and saw it for the time you saw it, did you think that was our technology?
	No.
	Did you have a certain feeling?
	Did you experience it?
	Yes.
	Yeah, I think these are life forms.
	Oh, absolutely, no question about it.
	Now, I'm not saying it couldn't be.
	Maybe we have anti-gravity technology, but I don't have any hint of it other than what I saw.
	People describe objects the size of two three football fields a mile wide that can float.
	They all use the same word.
	That's what I was doing.
	Noiselessly.
	Yep.
	They also have the now characteristics, performance characteristics, that things, orbs, can leave the sides of this huge triangle, fly around, do whatever they're going to do, and come back and re-dock with it.
	Yep, I've heard that as well.
	They look like little babies flying off and doing what they're doing.
	They also have spotlights that shine down as if searching for things.
	And sometimes they look like life-forms, flapping and moving gracefully.
	You know, this is the futuristic technology.
	This isn't our technology.
	This seems to be a combination of machine and organic and inorganic.
	Well, I ask myself this, Peter.
	If there was another life form interacting with us on this planet, if since 1945, as you suggest, we've been infected with this virus, then it may well be that our government is aware of it and can't do a damn thing About it, and that would cause them to not admit it, just as well as if it were ours in secret.
	I don't believe in that principle.
	I think an open, honest society that respects... Oh, I didn't say I believed in that principle, Peter.
	I said that they would not admit something they could not control.
	Well... In other words, they wouldn't say to the American public, look, we have significant evidence we are being invaded.
	There's nothing that we, your government, can do about it.
	That's not something a government would say.
	Well, I guess under one theory, if I'm going to play devil's advocate, I could think of a scenario where it might be in the best interest of humanity that this be kept secret until certain things happen, you know, until they maybe get certain information on it.
	But, you know, it's now 50 years.
	These things are flying at treetop level.
	It's obvious that something is invading this reality in the skies and in our homes.
	People still being abducted, still reporting these horrible experiences.
	Not only them, but now their children.
	I think it's time that we were told what's going on.
	All I can do is say, Peter, how can we help?
	What can we do?
	Well, we can all support the cause.
	We can do that.
	Send cause evidence.
	If you're an eyewitness, you can let me know if you have videos, if you have photographs, if you have experiences, and then share the information.
	Come forward.
	Come out of the closet.
	It's amazing.
	People are just afraid to give affidavits.
	Oh, affidavits.
	If I give an affidavit, that means I'm going to be singled out.
	People don't want to give affidavits.
	It's very simple.
	Unfortunately, you know, I can't help that, and I respect that, so I have to do what I do.
	Without the necessity of requiring certain people to come forward against... Peter, a person of integrity is not intimidated by an opportunity to tell the truth.
	Well, I guess that's easy for you and I to say.
	You gave me an affidavit, but I'm not going to project onto somebody else what they're experiencing and the reasons why they do it.
	And I guess their fears, yeah.
	Yeah, so I respect that.
	Each person has their own sovereignty and their own power.
	And I do not judge that.
	All right.
	Let us assume, though, there are people of integrity out there, in or outside of government, who have evidence.
	How would they get it to you?
	Well, there are three ways.
	If they have access to the Internet, have an email address, they can go to the website, Cause website.
	There's two ways to do that.
	Either they can go to the Art Bell, website and scroll down to where it says Peter Gersten and click on the link to the CAUSE website or they can go directly to CAUSE at www.caus.org and they can sign up for the free daily CAUSE updates.
	That's a really valuable value and somehow Peter I want to complain I've been taking off your list Not intentionally, my friend.
	I understand.
	Some dweeb, internet dweeb, probably unsubscribed me with a hacked account, so... Okay, I'll put you back on.
	You know, on the internet you can be a dog.
	So www.cause.org.
	Yeah, C-A-U-S, no E, C-A-U-S dot O-R-G.
	Or you can write, if you don't have access to the internet, you can write to Cause, C-A-U-S, P-O Box 20351.
	Sedona, S-E-D-O-N-A, Arizona, 86341.
	Or, lastly, and we're going to get beeped soon if I give this out, but you can call me.
	That's how important this is to me, that you call.
	I'm open to anybody who has evidence.
	You can reach me sooner or later, and I will talk to you.
	If you email me, write me, or call me, I will talk to you directly.
	And for those that aren't online, do not have access, we are now having, as I mentioned before, an offline, a regular newsletter that we send out to subscribers who don't have email.
	And then that, we have, you hear that?
	There's the first beep.
	How can somebody call me while I'm talking to you?
	I don't understand the mentality of some people.
	Don't they realize I'm talking to you on the phone?
	It's wild, huh?
	Well, it's the world.
	So, you can subscribe to the newsletter Cause and Effect by, once again, either calling me, going to the website, writing.
	It's $15 a year.
	Not a month, not a day, but a year.
	$15.
	It's well worth it.
	It's going to be the highlight of the Cause Update, the monthly highlight of the Cause Update.
	Yeah, it's like a dollar something a month.
	Yeah, it's a dollar something a month.
	So, you know, you can send Cause to that address to check for $15 or Send me your credit card, email me with the information.
	All right, and that's CAUS, C-A-U-S, no E, C-A-U-S, PO Box 20351, Sedona, Arizona, 86341.
	There's a lot of people with information and integrity out there, Peter, and I venture to say you're going to be hearing from them.
	I hope so, my friend.
	I hope so.
	You know, we've got to finally crack it open one way or the other, and your approach to me at least seems to be one that is likely to, you know, get a small crack started, something we can get our hand into, and finally get to the truth.
	Well, I want to tell you something, Art.
	I have exhausted my administrative remedies, okay, by requesting the information from the agencies.
	Yes.
	I'm slowly exhausting my judicial remedies.
	I will only be left with extrajudicial remedies.
	What are those?
	What is an extrajudicial remedy?
	Well, I guess it's actions that people take in order to bring attention to any given issue.
	Oh.
	Now that's interesting.
	And if a person, and we know in the history of humanity that people have believed in certain That they would do anything necessary to bring this to the public's attention.
	You're not going to self-immolate, are you?
	No, I'm not self-destructive.
	What's the point with that?
	No, my story is a trial, my friend.
	I understand.
	In other words, that final trial where I can present evidence.
	And they thought Scopes was a big trial.
	Or OJ, or the impeachment hearing.
	Could you imagine a trial involving UFOs and out of contact with another form of intelligence?
	Indeed, I can.
	All right, listen, Peter, my friend, thank you.
	You need to get on the telephone.
	Yeah, thank you, my friend.
	Good luck.
	All right, folks, that's Peter Gersten.
	You've got to get his daily update.
	It's free.
	Go to his website and get it started.
	I'm Art Bell and Jeffrey Mishlove, Dr. Mishlove, coming up next.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 26th, 1999.
	Not at all!
	Do you remember that day?
	When you first came my way?
	When you first came my way I said no one could take your place
	And if you get hurt by the little things I say I can set my back on your bed
	When it's alright and it's coming home We gotta get right back to where we started from
	Love is good, love can be strong We gotta get right back to where we started from
	Love is good, love can be strong.
	We're going to get right back to where we started from.
	Love is good, love can be strong.
	Love is good, love can be strong We gotta get right back to where we started from
	Love is good, love can be strong.
	Like a...
	When you first came my way I said no one could take your place
	...
	And if you get hurt by the little things I say I can set my back on your bed
	When it's alright and it's coming home We gotta get right back to where we started from
	Love is good, love can be strong We gotta get right back to where we started from
	you We're going to get right back to where we started from.
	Tonight's program originally aired May 26th, 1999.
	Good morning.
	Wherever you are, good morning.
	I'm Art Bell, and we're about to talk with Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove.
	I think you're going to find this very, very instructive.
	On nearly all matters of the paranormal, consciousness, the mind, Frankly, a lot of the same areas touched on with Terrence McKenna.
	And again, speaking of Terrence McKenna, I'm getting email flooded with all kinds of messages from different people indicating Terrence is in the hospital in Honolulu and gravely ill.
	And I pray that is not the case.
	I would like to talk to a spokesperson.
	I have tried to call.
	I have Terrence's private number and of course there's no answer there.
	Further leading me to believe this may be so.
	However, I have been killed off on the internet a number of times, and so one never ever knows, does one?
	So, I'm going to hope and pray it's not true.
	I would, however, like to talk to a spokesperson for Terrence if there is such a thing.
	You can email me if you are such a person.
	at Art Bell at AOL.com and I will monitor my email as best I can during the course of the program tonight with Dr. Mishoff and all of that is coming up one more really really major announcement and that is get hold of everybody you know because tomorrow night there is going to be a program that will explain Recent events in my life that have necessitated some adjustments.
	And it is a program I understand that many of you have been waiting for.
	I don't know if it will satisfy all of your curiosity, but it is going to take care of a very great deal of it, and the rest of it will come soon.
	So that is Tomorrow Night.
	Don't miss tomorrow night.
	Alright, as host of a weekly national public television series called Thinking
	Aloud, Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove has pioneered the introduction of deep,
	authentic, and thoughtful discussions in a broadcast medium noted mostly for sound bites and
	sensationalism.
	Thank you.
	In this capacity, he conducts interviews with leading figures in science, philosophy, psychology, health, and spirituality, His guests have included Joseph Campbell, Rollo May, Virginia Satcher, Houston Smith, and Gene Houston.
	About 400 of these interviews have been broadcast since 1986.
	Now he's also hosting the daily Wisdom Radio program called Virtual You.
	He's author of the classic, Roots of Consciousness, Which originally published in 75, with new editions in 93 and 97, an overview of the history, science, and folklore of parapsychology and consciousness exploration, which has been widely used as an introductory college text.
	You know who you're listening to, or about to listen to.
	PSI Development Systems, a book based on his doctoral dissertation, He evaluates dozens of methods for training extrasensory abilities.
	Another book, Thinking Aloud, consists of edited transcripts from the television series.
	He currently serves as director of the Intuition Network, an organization of thousands of individuals in business, government, health, science, and education who are interested in cultivating and applying intuitive skills.
	The Intuition Network operates a computer conference and also sponsors conferences, seminars, tours, research, and publications.
	Jeffrey has the distinction, by the way, of holding a doctoral diploma in parapsychology, which is the only such diploma ever awarded by an accredited American university.
	He received the degree in 1980 from the University of California at Berkeley.
	He is also past president of the California Society for Psychical Study and past vice president of the Association for Humanistic Psychology and is currently teaching a distant learning course on intuition parapsychology and consciousness for the California Institute of Integral Studies.
	We have a link to his website online It is www.mishlove.com or simply go to my website www.artbell.com.
	Go down to the guest area and click on Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove's name.
	Here is Dr. Mishlove.
	Doctor, welcome.
	Thank you, Art.
	Great to have you back again.
	It's a pleasure to be with you again.
	Your last appearance created a great wave of consciousness across this country.
	Well, it was a little ripple in a big wave of consciousness that your whole program has been creating for many years.
	Thank you, I hope so.
	We will no doubt touch on all kinds of areas tonight, but, you know, I think I would like to begin with something we have talked about before, and that is, as you well know, I've conducted these experiments, these mass thought, mass consciousness Mass prayer, you know, I really don't know what to exactly call them.
	I don't know what the source of the power is.
	I would like to say, it's Lord Jesus Christ, it's God, you know, and that would make all the Christians happy, but I can't say I even know that.
	I just know that prayer and intense concentration by many, if not millions of people, appears to work.
	It works on physical things, it works on mental things, it works on health.
	My good friend Terence McKenna is said to be gravely ill.
	I have yet to have absolute confirmation on that.
	But if so, I would endeavor another experiment of that sort.
	What can you tell me you know about this?
	Where does the power to influence, physically or otherwise, come from in such a mass concentration?
	What are we doing?
	Well, I can give you my best understanding of it.
	I certainly agree with you that it does occur and that, in a sense, your radio program is a focal point for the consciousness of millions of people who can focus their attention.
	And each of us, I think, is a spark of the divine fire.
	So when we focus our attention together, we're like... Gene Huston uses the term, we're like godlings.
	Gods in the making.
	We each have a little bit of that healing potential.
	God's in the making.
	That's interesting.
	God's in the making.
	As I said to you a moment ago, I said if I could say this is real, which I can say, and the power comes from our Lord God and or Jesus Christ, I would say that.
	Being bluntly honest, I can't say that I know that to be true.
	I just know that these things work.
	How do you respond to that?
	Would you come out and concretely say, that's where the power comes from, this mass concentration?
	It's from God, or it's from the developing God within all of us?
	You know, the mystics say it's ineffable.
	There is no words that can adequately describe it.
	But it does seem to me that each human being partakes of this ultimate reality.
	Whatever word you could call it, Krishna, or Brahma, or Jesus, or Yahweh, or just nothingness.
	In my mind, it doesn't matter.
	And that makes a lot of people angry because their way, of course, is the only way, whichever that is.
	And there are many paths.
	And maybe there are many paths to the same destination.
	I don't know.
	But they insist that it must be their way.
	The power comes from my God, whoever my God is.
	And that's fine, I guess, for them.
	And I would never take that faith away from them.
	But I cringe a little when they demand that I join in.
	There's even a way to explain it in terms of quantum physics.
	How?
	You could say that the underlying quantum foam, the quantum probability field that underlies all of reality links us in a non-local way.
	And there's quite a lot of research in parapsychology now showing that when masses of people concentrate on the same thing, like the Olympics opening ceremony or the Princess Diana's funeral, When measurements are made around the world independently in different laboratories of the random fluctuations in quantum mechanical devices, they discover often simultaneous deviations from chance that are correlated with the focus of human attention.
	So we can document the effect, but we really can't document the venue, what what what uh... howard's happening can we
	uh... knows we we can definitely document that these effects are made on
	external things but not can't document quite how
	i suppose they'll always be a mystery to it but in in practical terms
	uh... you're thinking about terrence mckenna who i know well i've
	interviewed him five times on my television program to be about the same
	number of times i've been a guy i hold him in very high esteem and
	and we have a war going on and i believe that the focused attention of uh... the millions of people who
	listen to your program can make a real difference
	i believe it possible hi i i i
	I've seen it happen so many times now that I've almost had doubt removed that it can be done.
	My only doubt is how we're doing it and where the power to do this comes from.
	That's the answer that I want, and I know I'm not going to get the answer to that question, am I?
	Well, one way to think of it is this.
	Creation.
	You know, if we take the physics point of view, there was a Big Bang.
	And prior to the Big Bang, the entire universe existed in one infinitesimally small point.
	And everything came out of that.
	And I think, in a sense, we're all, each of us, still connected to that source.
	Well, do you buy into that?
	You're talking about the Big Bang, of course.
	Yes.
	Traditional thinking is, scientific thinking, that something smaller than a quark, which we have not even really quite proven yet even exists, something smaller than that became all that is now.
	Yes.
	Now, even the best scientists that I've ever talked to, Doctor, begin to stutter and stop when you ask them what occurred one second prior to that.
	What was One second prior to that, then they stop, and they say, I'm sorry, we don't know.
	Theologians, same way.
	Don't know.
	Well, it suggests that the vacuum state, prior to all time and space, matter and energy, is a realm of infinite possibility, and that's where I think we are brushing up against God.
	And you think it is God?
	Well, God is just a word.
	It's just a semantic thing.
	I think it's something greater and more wondrous than any words we could possibly have.
	Are you Dr. A. Christian?
	I was raised Jewish, and I no longer consider myself exclusively Jewish.
	I think my path is the path of intuition and universal spirituality, which is probably the original Judaism.
	If you were pressed to the wall, now remember, Doctor, you don't have to answer any question and tell me to get stuffed any time you want.
	I think it's delightful that you're pushing my limits.
	But if somebody pushed you to the wall like me and said, look, tell me, is it the God of the Bible that we are talking about here, that is behind all that we know, how would you answer?
	I would say that the God of the Bible is One of the many manifold manifestations of this reality, because it's not only the God of the Bible, it's the God of every religion, and the God of every planet, and the God of every life form.
	It goes way, way beyond simply the Bible.
	Well, then you're saying something that would have you tossed out of any number of organized religions.
	Most of them, actually.
	Well, that's all right with me.
	Then how do you view the Bible?
	Those who are strictly a Christian would say, look, here it is.
	It's written.
	It's been passed down.
	It is the Word.
	It is the only Word.
	And if you were to have to address the Bible as a historical document, what would you say?
	Well, I would say, and I've studied the Bible, I don't know of any place in the Bible where it claims for itself that it is the only word of God.
	So I think some people of certain religious persuasions are making claims about the Bible that it does not even make with respect to itself.
	But I think the Bible is like a living person, or a species, or an animal.
	It's a product of the divine, just as every tree and bush or plant is.
	But if I were to show you a giant redwood tree and tell you this is the only redwood tree, that would make no more sense than to say that the Bible is the only expression of the divine.
	The truth is that everything we see, every person, every creature, every sacred text around the world is an expression of the divine.
	The Koran.
	I feel exactly as you feel, but that gets me in trouble all the time.
	But I do believe there is a creation force, that that creation force is still either with us or within us.
	I have no way of knowing, but I definitely believe there was a creation, that it wasn't some sort of magical, mystical, Chance happening that this little thing exploded outward to all that is.
	Today I'm hearing now that we have an infinitely expanding universe.
	It seems to be the latest hot theory.
	And we will just keep on expanding, moving away from each other forever.
	Had you heard that?
	I have heard that view and of course there's the other view that the universe will eventually collapse and then expand again and collapse again infinitely like that and then there is a view that there are really
	multiple many many universes like bubbles in a great foam
	do you subscribe to any particular view?
	I think it's useful to approach this with some humility and to appreciate
	that we're not capable of answering deciding amongst these theories yet and
	a thousand years from now people will still be debating them
	Yeah, CNN is running a story, and I only caught part of it.
	Hold on, Doctor, we're at the bottom of the hour.
	The upshot of the CNN story is that we are in a universe that is going to be expanding forever.
	Endlessly.
	Think about that.
	That would mean that eventually, Our distant relatives, if humanity manages to stay on the planet, would look into the night sky and virtually see nothing.
	We would have moved so far away from everybody else that we would be all by ourselves.
	So far that not even the light of other suns would reach us.
	Ah, that would be a cold place, wouldn't it?
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 26th, 1999.
	This is a test.
	It's like magic Oh
	Oh, rollin' and ridin' and slippin' and glidin' it's magic.
	And you, and you'll feel just like I do.
	Fire and fire, baby.
	It's a livin' thing.
	It's a terrible thing to lose.
	It's a given thing.
	What a terrible thing to lose!
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 26th, 1999.
	Good morning, everybody.
	Dr. Mishlove is our guest this evening.
	I think you're going to find it very instructive.
	Absolutely fascinating, actually.
	If you care to take a look inside yourself.
	It's a journey not too many have the guts to make, but If you're curious, then stick around.
	Here's an article from the Journal News Service by Jeff Alexander, which is entitled,
	Something Wrong in the Great Lakes.
	Tumors found in Michigan Zoo Plankton alarm scientists.
	Muskegon.
	Scientists have discovered what they believe are cancerous tumors on several species of Lake Michigan zooplankton.
	One researcher calls it a startling discovery and says something is seriously wrong in the lake.
	The tumors were found on tiny organisms that float in the water and have almost no contact with polluted bottom sediments.
	So now, think about that a little bit.
	I don't know how many of you understand The importance of plankton to us on the planet, but there is now a cancer, according to this article, on plankton in the lake.
	Do you have any idea how serious this is?
	Dr. Mishlove, welcome back.
	Thank you.
	My guest in the first hour prior to your appearance was Peter Gersten.
	He's an attorney.
	And he said something the other day that really caught my attention.
	He said, Art, I believe that reality has been infected with a virus.
	And I've been considering that remark ever since he made it.
	And I read these stories like the one I just read in part.
	It's a long story.
	I didn't have time to read it all.
	But plankton is, of course, a base of food supply or part of the food chain for so many creatures in the water.
	That to imagine the death or absence of plankton is to imagine the end of mankind.
	Now, something is in fact going on in our world right now.
	We are approaching something.
	Something has changed.
	Peter Gersten is right.
	Something, since about 1945, appears to have affected our reality, accelerated every aspect of our lives in something I offhandedly called the quickening.
	Something's going on.
	Any thoughts?
	Well, it strikes me since 1945 when we developed atomic weapons that for the first time in human history we've had the clear-cut capacity to wipe ourselves out.
	That's an enormous change.
	I don't think that's ever happened to any other species.
	Well, I think it's interesting that he uses the metaphor of the virus and suggests that there's now a virus amongst us because we, in effect, we are the descendants of the bacteria and the viruses.
	They were the first inhabitants of this planet.
	Right.
	Well, from a planet's point of view, if a planet had a point of view, which would be a separate discussion, we might be, with our present behavior, considered to be a virus.
	Indeed we might.
	Or at least a species that's misbehaving and hasn't yet learned how to integrate itself into the whole ecosphere and it's real clear if we don't do that we won't survive.
	There are many many species that have been on this planet and have come and gone and we could easily become just another one of those.
	I don't think we believe that though.
	You know it's like Every G.I.
	never thinks he's going to be the one to take the bullet, but it happens.
	You just don't believe in that kind of mortality.
	And, of course, we're short-term thinkers anyway because we're short-term livers!
	We don't live that long!
	But if we think of ourselves not just as human, but if we think of ourselves as part of the life process on this planet, species have come and gone, but life has existed for billions of years, and life will continue long after the human race.
	Well, yes indeed.
	It may be in the form of cockroaches and other little crawly things, but you're correct, some form of life will continue, but it is rather Selfishly important to us as human beings to see to it that the human race continues, and I don't see we're doing a lot of good things toward that end right now.
	I guess you could point to many, many positive developments, or you could point to many negative.
	To me, it's a delicate balance, and it's hard for me to tell which way it's tilting.
	Well, I wish I was as much of an optimist as you apparently are.
	I tend to be an optimist, but I think earlier we were talking about the focused attention of your audience, how it might be possible for a million people or so who are listening right now to focus their attention simultaneously on creating a better world and on creating for each person, becoming the best person they can be.
	That can make a difference.
	I believe that.
	That's the one little hope that I'm holding on to in the middle of all these otherwise seemingly negative things.
	I mean, you talk about the Antarctic, you talk about ice fields that are slipping and sliding and breaking off and melting, and you talk about weather across America that's becoming more violent by the day, nearly.
	Things that are going wrong in the environment otherwise, just like the sinking of the Great Lake.
	Imagine that, the plankton with a cancer.
	Now, maybe Americans have had so much news of this sort that they're kind of numb to it.
	I think that is true.
	But from the time I was quite small in science class, I was told that plankton is pretty much the basis for almost all life.
	And without plankton, life would rather quickly cease to exist.
	Without plankton in the ocean.
	Now, I'm not an expert in these areas, nor am I an environmentalist, but I don't think this is good news.
	No, it doesn't sound like good news.
	So, maybe you're right.
	Maybe if we focus on what's really going on, or know what's going on, then we can focus our attention in some mass way on trying to change that, and I'm all for it.
	It's just that I'm not quite sure what's happening yet.
	Well, it may be more than any of us can grasp intellectually.
	It's so complex.
	The amount of specialization in so many different fields of science is probably beyond the grasp of even the brightest people.
	Well, you're a pretty bright one, Doctor.
	I've been meaning to ask you.
	You are the only person to receive a degree in parapsychology.
	How did that happen?
	It came from Berkeley.
	Yes.
	How did that happen?
	How did you get a degree in parapsychology?
	And how come you're the only one who has one?
	Well, it's a doctoral diploma that says parapsychology on it.
	And to be fair to my many colleagues in the field, there are other people who have done doctoral work in this field, but their diplomas turned out to say psychology or philosophy or physics or some other field
	like that.
	Right, so my question is direct.
	How can yours say parapsychology?
	I set up an individual interdisciplinary doctoral major at Berkeley.
	I took advantage of some of the rules that were in effect at the time.
	I got my master's degree in criminology and I made a decision that I wanted to study not
	the negative forms of human deviance but the positive forms of human deviance.
	I reached deeply within myself.
	I anguished for many months, and I was guided by dreams.
	The dreams led me into the media, into radio and television, and to create a degree in parapsychology.
	In effect, it happened by magic.
	The lesson for me in all of that, Art, is that when we as a race or the individuals listening to your program, when people decide that they want to get their lives on track and be the best people they can be and do the best things that they can do, there is invisible help available to us.
	Invisible help.
	That takes us back to the conversation of the last half hour.
	It was invisible help.
	We're not here alone.
	Even if the universe is expanding infinitely and we might be out there and look into a black sky, we would find within ourselves an intimate connection with every living being in the universe and with the consciousness of the universe itself.
	There is, Doctor, a great debate going on in the land right now.
	Peter Gersten was on that last hour.
	Is it your considered opinion that we are being visited by extraterrestrials or extra-dimensionals or non-human beings on this planet?
	Are we being visited?
	Do you believe that?
	I would be inclined to think so, but in a way, the very question assumes a certain perspective of separation.
	You know, that whatever it is, is alien, is other.
	And at one level it clearly is, but at another deeper level, we're interconnected.
	We're cousins of whatever it is that's visiting us.
	So your inclination is to believe we are being visited, but your inclination is also to believe that they are part of the same consciousness that we have, that is the connection we share?
	Yeah.
	I think that's well put.
	I agree with Stephen Greer on that point, that whatever kind of bodies and dimensions that they come in, at the level of pure consciousness, the level of being, we share a commonality.
	What is the best evidence that you have of that?
	Well, you know, last time I was on your program, I talked at some length about the case that I investigated for 10 years of Ted Owens, the man who claimed to be half-human and half-alien and who performed many, many extraordinary feats.
	I have a number of such people making very serious claims to me right now and wanting to come on the air, and I'm probably going to allow it.
	I'm probably going to do something like that.
	Can you recall about Ted Owens?
	What causes you to believe his claims might have validity?
	Well, he did things that people don't normally do, except if you look at the shamanistic traditions.
	You know, there's a big gray area here, because we don't know what the full capacity of a human being is.
	But Ted Owens predicted for me, for example, that he would cause a UFO to appear over the San Francisco Bay Area within a certain time frame of 90 days, within a radius of 50 miles from San Francisco.
	He said it would be photographed, it would be witnessed by reputable witnesses, and that a picture of it would be published on the front page of one of the local newspapers.
	Yes, pretty impressive.
	this by contacting them telepathically and having them make this appearance and
	all of these things did happen just like that. So that was pretty impressive to me.
	Yes, pretty impressive. But he may not have done anything in that regard that
	we didn't do in our early experiments. Precisely, that's right.
	Or that Native peoples, the Native Americans and the African shamans have been familiar with these kinds of talents for a long time.
	I've got to be honest with you, I'm not even sure that the appearance that we seem to cause in Phoenix, you know the big story in Phoenix, and then another one in Las Vegas, I'm not even sure that these are not artifacts of our own mind.
	In other words, I don't doubt what people saw, because I've seen one myself.
	But I don't dismiss the possibility that the appearance of these things is more a part of the world of parapsychology, or the monster, if you will, of ours, Well, I've taken that exact same position ever since I started in this field 25 years ago, and I found that neither the parapsychologists nor the UFO researchers were very happy with me, but I think there's a lot to it, and it supports a statement that I made earlier, quoting Gene Houston, that we are gods in the making.
	Well, if you recall that wonderful old science fiction movie, Forbidden Planet.
	I loved it.
	Though it was coming from our scientist's mind, it was nevertheless real.
	The metal was bending, the ground was shaking, people were dying and being ripped and torn apart, and all of this was coming from the mind.
	It wasn't a monster, it wasn't an alien, it was a creation within the man's own mind.
	And who is to say that these metallic things we see flying and flitting about, these things said to be the size of ocean-going liners that are going at thousands of miles per hour across the North Atlantic, sighted by aircraft pilots and all the rest of it, who's to say that these are not artifacts of our own mind?
	I think it's a perfectly viable hypothesis.
	And it raises deep questions about what does it mean to be human.
	We shouldn't assume that we already know.
	Yes, you're right.
	What does it mean to be human?
	It may mean a very great deal more than we think.
	I suppose you have some thoughts on that, what it means to be human, don't you?
	Well, I don't have any ultimate answers, but one view about the aliens that really intrigues me is that they are us coming back from the future.
	Hold on, Doctor.
	Hold it right there.
	My guest is Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove, and he actually has... His PhD comes in parapsychology.
	It is the only one of its sort in the entire nation.
	Yeah.
	Are you afraid to travel within?
	Most people are.
	Most people are very external.
	Do very little internalizing.
	But all the answers, you know, they may be inside.
	I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 26th, 1999.
	I'm going to be there, and it's great, and it's fair, don't be afraid.
	I'm going to be there, and it's fair, don't be afraid.
	You only have to take it, take it in your hand.
	Coast to Coast is a production of the National Geographic Office.
	You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and www.nasa.gov.
	NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory, California Institute of Technology
	NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory, California Institute of Technology
	Come along if you dare!
	The future of the mind Come along if you dare Come along if you dare Take a ride to the land inside of
	your mind Beyond the sleep of God Beyond the realm of one
	Across the streams of hope and dreams where you are You're listening to Arc Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 26th, 1999.
	Good morning, everybody.
	This one's for Terrence.
	If you're out there, Terrence, get some work to me.
	In a moment, we're gonna talk About a journey into our own minds with Dr. Mishlove.
	And we're going to also ask him about the concept.
	Is it a concept or a reality?
	That is to say, good and evil itself.
	We'll be right back.
	And alright, here we go again with Dr. Mishlove.
	Doctor, welcome back.
	Thank you.
	Remember that song, Journey to the Center of the Mind?
	Brought me back to the 1960s, I think.
	Not too many modern Americans are willing to make or even endeavor to consider that journey, are they?
	Well, I remember when that kind of music was popular in the 60s, I, for one, took it very seriously.
	And some people of that generation also did.
	I did, yes.
	I did.
	But a lot of people in this generation that I see don't seem to be taking it very seriously.
	They seem very external, very material, very living for the moment, as opposed to any internalizing at all.
	I think there's something to that, but there's a funny paradox, which, at least for me, is that I'm beginning to feel that the distinction between internal and external is also something of an illusion.
	I'm now taking a renewed interest in a field that I have been avoiding all of my life, which is the area of finance and commerce.
	I've gotten into it with a passion, and I used to reject it and think it was all materialistic, but now my feeling is that the marketplace, the world of commerce, is as much of an interior world, a reflection of the group mind, even the equivalent of a yoga ashram, as being isolated somewhere on a mountain top.
	Well, where is the world of commerce better reflected?
	Then Wall Street and the stock market, both national and international, and right now it's really on a roll.
	I mean, it's, what, 10,700 and something or another?
	Went over 11,000.
	Just absolute boom times are underway.
	So what does that mean to you?
	With respect to what you just said.
	Well, it's very complex.
	The market goes up and down all the time.
	It's very volatile.
	Sometimes it's hard to tell whether it's about to crash.
	Many people say, you know, it's overinflated.
	Stocks are priced way too high.
	Irrational exuberance.
	That's right.
	So you can see reflected in the stock market the group psyche.
	It's all of us.
	Millions of people making collective decisions together.
	In many ways, it reflects the ecology, it reflects our values.
	Yes, and so the market, though yes it has daily fluctuations and up and down, generally, let's face it, when I was young, Dow 900 was incredible.
	Now it's Dow 11,000.
	So if it is a reflection, as you suggest, of nearly every aspect of us, then things are just peachy keen.
	Well, not everybody thinks so.
	Most of the conservative financial advisors say the stock market is a bubble ready to pop.
	Yes, well, some say that, yes.
	There are many different views, and it's hard to say, because it's like quantum physics.
	You won't know until the wave collapses.
	Other people say, well, we're on our way to Dow 100,000.
	Just as it went from 900 to 11,000 in a period of a couple of decades, it'll go from 11,000 up to 100,000 in another 20 years or so.
	Well, if that's true, then all those advisors who say, don't pay attention to what happens every day, don't care, don't even look at it on a weekly basis, put your money in and wait 10 or 20 years and you can't lose.
	There's something to all of these points of view.
	You can look at it in the long run.
	You can look at it in the short run.
	You can choose to ignore it, which I did for 30 years of my adult life.
	Or you can choose to pay extraordinary attention to it.
	As you now are.
	As I now am.
	And what I am discovering is that by looking at the stock market, I'm learning things about myself and my own interior that I never imagined.
	Then, what is your specific view with regard to that?
	In other words, do you share the Fed Chairman's caution that there's irrational exuberance and things could come crashing down?
	He didn't really say that.
	He said irrational exuberance, and that of course would lead a person to believe that at some point there is going to be a mighty, hefty correction, or that the good times are going to keep on rolling.
	Well, I think they're both true.
	In a way, but there will be many, many disappointments in the market.
	There are many stocks that are grossly over-inflated, and some of them are already down 30 or 40 percent since the beginning of the year.
	Oh yes, I know the Nasdaq's had a really rough run lately, and it's because the luster has come off the Internet IPOs.
	you know i mean things worth uh...
	there are the one hundred uh... hundreds of times earnings it's
	Pretty incredible.
	Sometimes thousands of times earnings.
	I know.
	And you know, one minute you look at that and you say, gee, I've got to get in on it before it's too late.
	This is really real.
	And then the next minute you say, my gosh, I've got to sell quickly or I'm going to lose everything.
	I know the feeling.
	It forces you to study yourself if you're going to succeed in the market.
	The great masters of the stock market are masters of self-awareness.
	Alright, let me turn your attention, if I can, to a question from a listener, which is, Art, would you please ask Dr. Mishlove to bring up, or bring up with him, the question of good and evil.
	Is there a specific good and evil entity, in other words, Do you view good as being an entity called God, bad as an entity called Satan or the Devil?
	Is there that reality, do you believe, or do you believe these are simply things within all of us, the God and the Devil within all of us?
	I tend to agree with the second.
	The Zoroastrian religion is an ancient Persian religion that postulated two equal principles of good and evil constantly at battle with each other and you find that in Christianity
	to some extent with the idea of Christ and Satan.
	Indeed. But from a larger perspective it's all one. There are some underlying principles of wholeness
	that embrace all of these things. The Buddhists understood this very well
	when they said that all the demons exist ultimately in service to the Buddha.
	Okay.
	So then when you hear claims of people who do great evil, serial killers and all the rest of them
	who finally shortly before their execution will say essentially the devil made me do it. Baloney, huh?
	Well, perhaps they are experiencing some schizophrenia or paranoid psychosis.
	I mean, there are people who Who believe in these things, and the human mind can form very, very vivid fantasies about these things, but ultimate reality, as far as I'm concerned, I embrace the whole universe, and I find the whole universe to be ultimately friendly.
	I think that often what we call evil is really more stupidity, or what the Buddhists sometimes call unskillful behavior alright there's a phenomena ugly horrible going on in the world right now with regard to our children who Columbine etc I'm sorry to say are killing other children children who have no regard for their own lives and certainly no regard for others
	Don't mind their own lives being taken in the effort to take others.
	It's incomprehensible.
	I'm unable to grasp with my mind what this is, where it's coming from.
	It seems, you know, if you were to contemplate the fact that there really is evil, Then there it would be.
	But as you point out, it may be simply within us.
	But whatever it is, it's growing or seems to be growing stronger.
	Well, you know, I think the statistics just came out last week that show that overall violent crime is declining.
	And it has been every year for seven years.
	For adults.
	Yes, indeed, you are correct.
	In fact, burglary and various other crimes for adults are all All the way.
	They're all going down.
	But sharply up for our young people.
	Interesting dilemma.
	It is.
	It's a tragic situation.
	It suggests a lot of social alienation.
	I think the media has some responsibility here.
	The shooting in Georgia seems to be a copycat crime.
	It would have Pure so.
	And I'm not even sure what that suggests.
	In other words, we are a nation of 260 million people.
	Now, when the media reports, for example, the tragedy, the horrid thing that occurred at Columbine, and then something else seems to occur almost right away that seems to be a copycat thing, that means one person, or two people, one or two people, Heard what happened at Columbine and then set out on their own little horrid adventure as a result of that.
	But 259,999,000 others didn't.
	Well, let's step back.
	I think it's a question of the values that we hold and that the media holds.
	You mentioned earlier the situation with the plankton.
	Yes.
	It hasn't really been reported much.
	In the media, it could be a much, much more important story than the Columbine shootings, or even the Monica Lewinsky affair.
	We tend to find certain very glamorous, high-profile stories, and they get all of our attention.
	Yes, they do.
	And then we don't pay enough attention to issues that are probably more important in our lives.
	Or that the coral reefs worldwide are dying.
	That's right.
	Because they happen slowly and gradually very often, they don't get our attention the way these dramatic events do.
	So these little things, relatively, as compared to something that would threaten the existence of mankind, hard as Columbine was, it's not in the category of threatening all of mankind.
	Or maybe it is, I don't know.
	Anyway, those things are capturing our attention.
	The OJs, the trials of sensational Stuff is keeping our attention while Rome burns.
	I think it has to do in part with the way the brain is wired.
	You know, we grew up in the jungles and the savannas of Africa.
	We had to be concerned that a tiger might jump out from behind a bush at us.
	So we're programmed to notice things like that.
	Whereas when things happen slowly and gradually, a little more Each year, our brains are not wired to pay as much attention, but those are the things that are really going to make a difference.
	You're absolutely correct.
	How do we change that, Doctor?
	Because if we don't change that, then one day something will occur and we simply won't be here any longer, or that will occur over a relatively short span of time, the weather will change, The climate will change, making it inhospitable for human beings to inhabit Earth, or whatever.
	Gravity will change, there'll be a slam from the sun, the plankton will die, the melting of the Antarctic, all the rest of it.
	That will occur, and it will have occurred the Boiling Frog Syndrome, as you just described.
	So we've got to start on changing things.
	And you, of all people, Art, are uniquely positioned to make a difference because of your own awareness of these things and because of the audience that you have and also the recognition that we talked about earlier working with the focused attention of that audience.
	It's possible, I think, to really begin to Use that as an instrument for creating positive change.
	The one little concern that I have, Doctor, is that I am not God, and I know I am not God.
	And some of the things that you and I are talking about working on are kind of God-like, and it worries me because Art Bell, the talk show host, could make a big mistake.
	And I'm worried about the whiplash of something going wrong.
	I wish that I could say, well, I am godlike, and I know that we can correct this, and I know that we can stop this environmental deterioration, and that we will have this great, wonderful mass concentration But I'm afraid that it'll cause some boomerang effect.
	Should I not be afraid of that?
	No, I think you should listen to your fears.
	Really?
	Yeah, I do.
	If you have an intuition that the time isn't right or that the way to phrase things or the way to focus attention isn't just right, then you need to listen to that.
	Thank you.
	You're the first person who's finally told me that.
	Everybody else is, ah, don't worry about it.
	As long as you think it's good, or as long as it seems like it's a good thing you're doing, don't worry about it.
	Just do it.
	Well, I think it's important for you to set an example by listening to your own intuitions, but if you stay with it and ask for more wisdom, more guidance, you may come to a point where you can resolve within yourself this dilemma and come to a place where... I've become proactive again.
	I would like to do that, but until then, I thank you for what you said, because I have very serious reservations.
	What I did actually kind of scared me, and I began to realize that I was toying in an area that I didn't know a damn thing about.
	Period.
	I didn't know a damn thing about it.
	And there could be repercussions that I was not prepared for, and all kinds of things could happen.
	I actually scared myself.
	You know, I feel the same way, in a funny parallel with the attention that i'm paying to the stock market because it's
	not uh...
	i'm barry like felt through as as a matter of uh... just personal
	curiosity and you don't need to answer are you
	are you putting your money where your intuition is that uh...
	that that's a good question and it's it's one right now i think i need to
	you know give questions like that a lot of thought I don't have an immediate answer for you.
	But maybe in some funny way we are experiencing some parallels here.
	It does strike me though that with regards to what could be done in terms of focusing Attention of the people who are listening right now that if you give yourself a period of time to just contemplate it, I don't know, a number of months or however long you need, the time will come when you will find within yourself the insight of just how to move forward.
	I hope that's true.
	All right, Doctor, hold on.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	We're going to be right back.
	This is what I think.
	I know there's something on the way.
	And I think it's trouble.
	I see earthquakes and lightning.
	I see bad times and days.
	Just don't know what to do about it.
	That's all.
	Don't go around tonight, but if I were to take your life, there are the bad moves on the rise.
	I'm going to open the phone lines for Dr. Mish Love when we get back.
	You're listening to ArcBell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 26th, 1999.
	I hear the river overflowing.
	I hear the voice of razor running.
	I hear the river overflowing I hear the voice of rage and ruin
	Don't go around tonight If I'm gonna take your life
	There's a bad moon on the rise Oh, right
	I hear the river overflowing I hear the voice of rage and ruin
	Don't go around tonight Thanks for watching!
	Thanks for watching!
	you Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired May 26th, 1999.
	We are obviously graced this night with a great thinker, Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove.
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM, and I want to again alert my audience that tomorrow night is going to be a very, very, very important program.
	Tomorrow night, you are going to learn to some great degree what has been happening in my personal life and i've had
	about ten million emails asking
	tomorrow night you're going to find out and i think there are going to be some very very important
	issues uh...
	extremely important issues laid in front of you something for you to think about
	that's tomorrow night at eleven o'clock
	pacific time or in the second beginning in the second power program
	this should be interesting uh... by I just got a story from the Associated Press forwarded to me.
	This is kind of interesting.
	It's entitled, Pope Ponders the End of the World.
	Dateline-Madigan City Associated Press.
	Pope John Paul II said Wednesday that it is natural for humans to wonder when the world will end And advised all to await the day with serenity and hope.
	Quote, nowadays everything happens with incredible speed.
	Because of the breakthroughs in science and technology and the expanded means of communication, upon a set of his weekly audience in St.
	Peter's Square, it is therefore natural to question what humanity's destiny is and what its final goal is.
	Dr. Mishlove, before we go to the phones, a very interesting statement from the Pope.
	It is therefore natural to question what humanity's destiny is and what its final goal is.
	Would you care to venture into that area?
	Well, I think those are ultimately questions we each have to answer for ourselves, and I think the Pope is right.
	These are very, very important questions to ask.
	For myself, I take a really large view of this.
	I kind of see myself as a being who has been around since the Big Bang and I'm going to be around until the end of time.
	Ultimately, the goal is self-awareness in the widest possible sense, and as we've been discussing Already it seems that when we begin to know who we are and how vast our minds are and the reach of our powers, it's much, much more than is conventionally thought to be the case.
	So it's incumbent upon us, I think, to begin to take more and more responsibility for making this world work.
	All right, Doctor.
	Here they come.
	Are you ready?
	I'm ready.
	All right.
	Good.
	First time caller on the air with Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove and Art Bell.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi, Dr. Mishlove.
	This is Shelby calling from Collierville, Texas, listening to you on 570 Cliff.
	Yes, ma'am.
	And, Dr. Mishlove, I've heard you speak for a few minutes now, and I have two questions that I would like to ask you, and then I would just like to get off the line and hear your answers.
	My first question is, I know that you mentioned About God being a word that cannot encompass the true meaning of God.
	But I'm wondering that since most people believe that one of the attributes subsumed under the word God is God as a sort of universal justice dispenser, if you will, who will right wrongs and set things in balance on a conscious and discerning level.
	I wonder if your idea of God includes that type of God as sort of the ultimate and discriminant justice maker?
	Well, that's an excellent question.
	Doctor?
	Well, that's a very deep theological question.
	I do agree with that, but I don't know that I agree that justice from a human perspective is at all the same as justice from from God's point of view you had to that caveat had to be
	there else I'd have pounced on you with dead babies
	yeah you know which of course is a
	is what the pounces upon me whenever I shake my head in wonderment at the
	latest tragedy that involves the death of a very small children
	You know, the atheists will call and say, there's your God at work, Yeah, that's what I always get.
	Well, I think our human perspective is very, very limited compared to the perspective of a being who creates galaxies.
	Well said, as well as anybody could say that.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Mishlove and Art Bell.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi, Dr. Mishlove.
	Hello.
	Yes, I've got three questions.
	Three, huh?
	Yeah, three big ones.
	Well, alright.
	How far ahead do you think the common thread extraterrestrials are in technology from us, Doctor?
	You used the word common thread?
	Yeah, well I used that because you said they were a common thread to us.
	Humans.
	Oh yeah, in other words that we have some kinship with them.
	Yes.
	Well, I think it's easy to imagine that there are Civilizations in this universe that could be billions of years ahead of us.
	Okay.
	The universe we know, at least the most recent estimate, is 12 billion years old.
	But this planet is only about 4 or 5 billion years.
	So there could have been advanced civilizations before our planet was ever formed.
	And do you think they, being the extraterrestrials, are working in tandem with us?
	And if so, to what degree?
	You know, I recently had a chance to interview one of my professors, James Harder, who is a former researcher for the Aerial Phenomenon Research Organization, and a specialist in trying to understand what these extraterrestrials are like.
	And he believes, from having interviewed dozens and dozens, maybe hundreds of contactees, that there's sort of a galactic council, that there may be Twenty to fifty different extraterrestrial civilizations, and that they have a sort of a federation, and that there is, you might say, a certain amount of policing by them to make sure that some of the rogue civilizations don't mess with us too much.
	Right.
	And that to some extent, yes, there is a certain amount of cooperation.
	I'm sure of that, but I think it does not take place As best I can tell at the level of the government.
	Well, do you think, for instance, the extraterrestrials are working from bases underground?
	And then I'll listen off the air.
	All right.
	Underground.
	Underground bases.
	Yeah.
	I imagine that there might be underground and underwater bases.
	I don't know for sure about underground bases.
	I certainly haven't You know, Doctor, this may come as a great surprise or even shock to my audience, but I don't believe in E.T.'
	and I suspect that they're operating primarily through other dimensions,
	so that physical space, as we understand it, may not be terribly important to them at all.
	You know, Doctor, this may come as a great surprise or even shock to my audience,
	but I don't believe in E.T.'s visiting Earth any more than I believe in the specific god entity.
	You know, that specific God of the Bible entity that people talk of.
	And I'm such a terrible skeptic.
	I have an open mind to nearly everything and I'll listen to anything.
	But my own personal inside feeling is, I don't know there's ETs.
	I saw something going over my head Close in that I couldn't explain.
	It didn't seem like it was from this earth.
	But until I had absolute evidence of extraterrestrials or this earth being visited by people from elsewhere or even other dimensions I don't have that much evidence.
	I can't say that I know that to be true any more than I can say I know the exact God of the Bible to be true.
	I think that your agnosticism is suggestive of an open mind.
	That you're holding all hypotheses sort of in abeyance until the evidence is really there.
	A lot of people who listen to my program and listen to me and have for years interpret my open mind to be a statement of belief.
	And I don't mind if they want to believe that of me.
	It is fine.
	You know, everybody likes to put labels on somebody and so they They put the ET label on me, but the fact of the matter is, the real truth of the matter is, as I just stated to you.
	You're really just responding like any intelligent person would, I think.
	You're perfectly willing to entertain a hypothesis, and examine the implications of that hypothesis, and weigh and balance evidence in for and against it, and look at other competing hypotheses.
	You're right on the nose.
	East of the Rockies.
	You're on the air with Dr. Mishlove.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello, Doc.
	Hello.
	I got a few comments, and then I was wanting to get a response from you on it, because it kind of dealt with what you said about the demons being submitted to the Buddha, and this goes way beyond modern-day theology.
	In a sense, but people have always dealt with that stroke of good and evil.
	The thing is, when a person really gets into the book of Job, for example, that's where a lot of people go to, you see Satan probably actually carrying out the will of God more than being somebody that's an enemy.
	The thing is, most people in the Judeo-Christian traditions state that Satan is an enemy.
	But when a person really looks at the whole perspective, if God is all-knowing, he created
	this being for a specific purpose.
	Even in Romans it talks about the sin of Adam falling upon all men.
	But then Jesus took that sin being the second Adam.
	Then everybody thinks, as far as the justice issue, that there is a heaven and there is
	a hell and a good hell and that's permanent.
	But the scriptures kind of, not just Judeo-Christian, but even the other ones, which the New Age
	Movement just takes what they kind of want and kind of shirks responsibility and accountability.
	But Buddhism, Taoism, all those have varying degrees of punishment.
	Some are eternal, and some you eventually get out of.
	Jesus himself said, there will be those beaten with few stripes and many stripes.
	And theologians cannot deal with the end of revelations.
	Because people that normally are condemned eternally to a lake of fire are not in a lake of fire, but they're outside of the city, but they're not allowed in the city.
	How would you deal with that issue because of people today kind of wanting to skirt that accountability and responsibility as far as the good and evil and say, you know, it's just either one way or the other, but it seems like this divine being created this other one.
	Basically, it almost seems like for human growth.
	Okay, a couple of things.
	First of all, I got the impression from what you asked that you might have a little bit of a prejudice against the New Age movement, that it shirks responsibility.
	My own experience as somebody who's maybe kind of in the middle of the New Age movement is that there's an enormous emphasis on responsibility.
	I agree.
	One of the ways in which it comes to me would be in the research on the near-death experience.
	It's been reported that when you have a near-death experience, your whole life flashes in front of you.
	It might take only a few moments, but when it's happening, you're outside of space and time so that you experience every instant in exquisite detail And you experience not only your whole life, moment by moment, but all the pain and all the joy that you've caused to other people.
	You experience all of that.
	And it seems to me that that is a way to take responsibility.
	It even occurred to me that, take Hitler.
	People use Hitler as an example.
	If ever there was evil on this planet, it might have been Hitler.
	But assume that, you know, Hitler in His after-death state would have to experience all the pain and misery that he created.
	I think that if I were to die and run into Hitler knowing that he'd had that experience, I could feel kindness in my heart for the man, for that being, that there is a sense of ultimate justice there.
	And also a sense that the role of God in all of this is to have all of these experiences because ultimately there is something of an illusion about them.
	In the Bhagavad Gita, the great Hindu sacred text, the hero Arjuna is at a battle and he's about to kill his own relatives and he doesn't want to do it.
	His conscience is bothering him that he should go to war against Members of his own family, and then the God, Krishna, appears to him and basically says, you have a duty to perform and so you have to do it, but don't worry, you didn't create life and you can't destroy life.
	That's up to God.
	In that specific battle when Krishna went through all the different modes of yoga, he said basically, if you just surrender unto me, Then everything will be taken care of, including the sinful reactions of any activity that you may perform, which differs totally from Christianity.
	As far as the New Age, they're more responsible in the sense of taking care of the planet and stuff, which even in Judeo-Christianity, as far as their scriptures, it says, I created the earth, it's mine, and those who destroy the earth, I'll destroy.
	Well, you know, we have to appreciate paradox here, because although you're right about the Bhagavad Gita, that Arjuna, the warrior, just has to kind of surrender to Krishna, the culture that produced that piece of sacred literature is the same culture that produced the movement towards non-violence.
	That sometimes, you know, we respond in ways that are opposite to the superficial message of the scriptures.
	That's probably, I would have to say, the reason for the younger generation pulling the acts that they've been pulling because, I don't know, it seems they've kind of developed a sixties mentality.
	Well, I wouldn't paint the whole younger generation as doing that.
	They're just a few isolated cases.
	Yes, but they do appear to be on the unfortunate increase with our youth.
	As you pointed out, a trend that runs opposite to adults, and I haven't quite put my finger on the why of that.
	You know, one thing to consider is that younger people today are experiencing an epidemic of what they call Attention Deficit Disorder.
	Yes.
	And that's a real puzzle.
	When I was young, there was no such thing to my knowledge.
	Not that I recall either.
	There were hyperactive kids.
	There were other kids that were, you know, More studious, for example, in class, and there were always class disruptors, but today we class attention deficit disorder and we prescribe medications for it that are of controversial and sometimes dubious value.
	And millions of children, or large numbers, are being diagnosed with it, suggesting that something really is different, and maybe it's environmental, or maybe it is Has to do with the influence of the media or changes in the diet?
	I'm not sure, but there are some real differences there, and that's one measurable sign of it.
	It sure is.
	Hold on, Doctor.
	We'll be right back.
	Now listen to the wind blow.
	Watch the sunrise.
	Whatever you do, Don't let that chain break.
	And I think it's getting leaked.
	Very weak.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to ArcBell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	tonight on the presentation of coast to coast a m from a twenty six
	nineteen ninety nine the
	the the
	the You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time on Premier
	Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 26, 1999.
	My guest is Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove.
	In a moment, I believe I have some concrete information on the condition of Terrence McKenna.
	As I told you earlier in the program and had a hint of yesterday,
	I've been getting landslides of faxes saying that Terrence McKenna is gravely ill
	and is in a hospital in Honolulu, Hawaii.
	Now, I think I've got somebody online who can give us rather direct information.
	Don, welcome to the program.
	Oh, thank you, Art.
	Don sent me some email, and I just woke Don up a half hour before his appointed time to get up.
	Don, would you like to give your full name on the air?
	Uh, yes, that's fine, Art.
	Uh, my name is Don Silmas.
	Don Silmas.
	And I live in Springfield, Ohio.
	Okay, Don, um, your daughter lives with Terrence McKenna, is that correct?
	That's correct, and now, now.
	What can you tell us, please?
	On Saturday, Terrence went into some seizures and my daughter immediately got him in the car to take him to the hospital and suffered another seizure about 15-20 minutes later.
	You mean after he arrived at the hospital?
	No, after they left him out.
	It's sort of a remote location.
	Yes, I know.
	And they had to stop down at the main road, flag down some motorists, and basically resuscitate Terrence, who had gone into cardiac arrest.
	Once that had been accomplished, they made it to the hospital at Kona, where he started undergoing tests.
	Found that he was going to need some further evaluation.
	They were pretty well filled up, I guess, at CUNA 2, so they CareFlighted him to Honolulu by Helicopter.
	There they did a CAT scan and MRI and found a mass in the frontal lobe of Terence's brain.
	A tumor?
	A tumor, commonly called a GBM.
	It turns out a glioblastoma multiforme, which is a rather common brain tumor in adults, but it's one of the cancers that has dire consequences.
	It's tough to treat and very aggressive and usually has a rather short-term prognosis as far as life.
	Oh my God!
	Do you have any idea?
	Given Terrence's prognosis, is he conscious now?
	Is he aware of what's happening?
	Yes, he is.
	In fact, I've talked to him a couple of times on the phone.
	He did undergo some exploratory surgery on Tuesday, but I talked to my daughter about six or eight hours ago.
	He came through that fine and he's joking with friends and relatives that have flown in from all over the world already.
	He's his own self.
	He's accepted the fact that it's a matter of time.
	The doctors have told him and he relayed this to me.
	First, they thought he might have maybe a year or two at the max, but after the exploratory, it's looking a lot worse than that, so it could be more than six to nine to twelve months max, as far as the time.
	You know Terrence, he takes it in stride and he's not sitting around crying about it.
	He's accepting the reality of it.
	Is there any prescribed treatment at all?
	There are a number of ways and that's where Terrence is right now.
	They're trying to decide whether or not Some kind of surgery could be helpful.
	There's some type of gamma ray bombarding that they can do to slow things down.
	There's chemo and radiation that I've read in some of my We're looking up on stuff.
	They all have their side effects, their upsides and downsides.
	He's looking for as much time as possible.
	They usually give you the choice of quantity of life or quality of life.
	I think Terrence is going with the quantity of life.
	Now he'll just have to work with some of the doctors, some of the neurologists, and get their opinions, too, on which is the best route to take.
	Any idea how long he'll remain hospitalized?
	That I'm not sure of.
	I haven't heard that mentioned at all.
	A lot of it depends on what course they take, if they decide on some kind of surgery or treatment.
	But I would guess that he's going to be there in Honolulu at that hospital for at least a week.
	The Queen's Hospital in Honolulu.
	Then I would presume there would probably be some need to...
	Knowing Terrence, I bet he goes home.
	Oh, I'm sure he would.
	He's got too many people to get in contact with on the internet, and probably knowing Terrence, maybe even places to go or things to see that he wants to get done in the short term.
	And Christy's right there with him on that, too.
	That's your daughter, Christy?
	That's my daughter, Christy, right.
	Just some horrendous messages that confirm what you have said, giving Terrence a lot shorter time, just maybe a couple of months.
	Well, that's the worst case scenario with this type of cancer, can be 12 to 16 weeks.
	I mean, that is, and a lot of it just depends on how big, how aggressive it is.
	The size of this one, I think, was indicated that Well, the basic shape of it, about two and a half centimeters, about an inch.
	But then again, I've heard where they've taken these things out and then they can grow back to the same size within a matter of a week to replicate itself.
	So, I don't think anybody could zero in on the shortest side, but three to nine months Well, I have Terrence's number.
	Would you please pass my regards to Terrence?
	Oh, I would love to.
	I'd be happy to pass that on.
	I appreciate you calling.
	I gave you a quick little comment.
	In case you haven't heard anything at all or if you had heard some things and needed confirmation, I thought this would probably be as close to a relative confirming thing as you could get.
	I absolutely appreciate it.
	Prayers would be much appreciated.
	I know by me and any kind of support, spiritual support would be appreciated by Terrence and the family.
	We'll go to work on it.
	Art, what is the station?
	If I could tell some of my friends here in the Ohio area, do you have any idea what station I could tell them to tune
	in to check on?
	We have a number of radio stations that probably could be heard.
	You're in Springfield, Ohio, is that right?
	Right.
	A couple of people in the Columbus, Ohio area said they had picked up on your interview with Terrence on April the 1st, I think it was.
	Yes.
	But they didn't mention what station it was, and I wanted to pass that on to a couple of people around here.
	I wasn't sure what station they would have heard that.
	Well, I'll tell you what.
	You tell me what's close.
	Well, Springfield.
	That close enough for you?
	That's between Dayton and Columbus, Ohio.
	No, I'm saying we're in Springfield on WBLY.
	Oh, WBLY.
	Yes.
	and were in youngstown mansfield springfield steubenville cleveland
	columbus bel-air toledo datin cincinnati
	and uh... i think that the whole party both on tuesday but not right lima
	marion and so forth uh... great so
	uh... what i'm going to do is immediately arrange uh... to have a
	repeat of terence mckenna this weekend I would hope, if Terrence is of the mind to do it, that he will come back on the air with me if he does go home.
	I'm sure he has a lot of reflections on his current situation.
	Oh, you know he is.
	It will be interesting, in retrospect, to see what he comes up with.
	Dream-wise, he's already mentioned something about some really unexplained dreams a couple of weeks ago.
	Don, how's your daughter doing?
	She's doing surprisingly well for a 26-year-old that has just had her legs knocked out from underneath her.
	She just worships the ground Terrence walks on.
	She's hanging in there really well.
	She's a strong person and I don't think he could be with anybody better right now for support and having somebody around.
	I think things are going to be fine there.
	Don, thank you so much, my friend.
	I'm sorry I couldn't be under better conditions if we talked.
	Oh, same here.
	Take care.
	Thank you.
	That's, uh, goodbye.
	That's Don Stiles, uh, Springfield, Ohio.
	So now you know what's going on with Terrence.
	Damn it.
	You know, uh...
	Damn it.
	Bye.
	All right.
	Back now to our guest.
	I'm sorry to have kept you waiting.
	That's quite all right.
	Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove.
	Doctor, now you've heard it as well with regard to Terrence.
	Pretty rough rap for anybody.
	Well, you know, there is a story I perhaps can share with you that might shed some light on this.
	One of the... Do we have time now?
	Oh, yes.
	Go ahead.
	One of the board members who serves with me on the Intuition Network is a fine artist named Lynn Hershman Leeson.
	She's a filmmaker and a wonderful artist.
	She was diagnosed with a brain tumor like this and was told that they would have to operate quickly and it would almost certainly cause blindness if they did operate, but it would be necessary to save her life.
	This was a difficult thing for her because she's a visual artist.
	She met a doctor who was also a shaman.
	His name is Barry Grundlin.
	He worked with her intensively, giving her visualization exercises to work with.
	I don't know that she had such a virulent tumor.
	She came back, I think, six weeks later for A second CAT scan prior to surgery and after having worked with Barry Grundlin for six weeks, the tumor had vanished and has not returned.
	These things do happen, don't they?
	They do happen, but what greater test of a human being would there be to be vibrant, as articulate and especially intelligent as Terrence is?
	And to one day out of the blue have this strike you and then I guess be revived to be told that you have months to live.
	If anybody I think could deal with that it would be Terrence.
	That was my thought.
	But what an ultimate test for any human being to face.
	But it occurs to me that, you know, the name Barry Grundlin came to mind because I know I have referred him to other people since he worked with Lynn Hirschman and he has been of enormous assistance.
	You know what else?
	He's never charged anybody.
	Is that so?
	Yeah.
	I don't offhand know where Barry is, but I'm putting the thought out now because perhaps, and it's not that parents would lack people like that who could work with him, but I would say that Knowing Terrence's powers of attention and mental focus, it would seem to me that the last chapter has not yet been written on this story.
	Interesting that Don said Terrence, given the choice of quality or quantity, has opted for quantity of life.
	And I guess that means Do you want the real rough stuff, you know, the heavy chemicals, the serious radiation bombardment, the nausea and all that goes with the really blockbuster treatments for this kind of thing that they attempt, which might keep you around a little longer, or do you want the quality?
	And he said quantity, and when and if I'm able to talk with him, I will ask him why he made that choice.
	Do you have any thoughts on why he might have?
	Well, I think maybe he wants to live.
	Yeah, that's a good answer.
	And I'm reminded of another case.
	I believe it was the Make-A-Wish Foundation, where they had a child who was dying of some leukemia, I think it was.
	And the child had asked for postcards to be sent to him.
	Yes.
	And he received over 100,000 postcards.
	I recall that.
	It went around and around the Internet.
	And then he made a miraculous, inexplicable recovery.
	Well, it may well be that we can do something, and I guess we should try.
	I'm shocked.
	I'm really hit pretty hard with this news.
	I don't know what to say.
	By the way, I should have done this earlier.
	Do you have any current publications that you'd like to plug?
	I always like to give my guests an opportunity to do that.
	Oh, gosh.
	I think maybe the best thing is just to mention my website, which is my name, www.mishlove.com.
	It's spelled just the way it sounds, M-I-S-H-L-O-V-E.
	I don't have any recent publications yet, but I am involved in a plethora of activities, from teaching to running a non-profit organization.
	Nothing to directly sell?
	People aren't going to be comfortable with that at all.
	Well, we have a tour that's going to Egypt in September.
	There you go!
	Out of the Intuition Network Sacred Sites School of Conscious Evolution.
	Hope to be inside the King's Chamber of the Great Pyramid on the Autumn Equinox.
	Oh, that would be interesting.
	Indeed.
	Are they opening it back up?
	Yeah.
	They are?
	Alright.
	There was word from Dr. Hawass they may leave it closed.
	He was actually lobbying, I think.
	He actually said it was going to stay closed.
	Well, then perhaps you know more than I do at this point.
	Oh, you better check that now.
	Because Dr. Hawass is the final authority.
	Yes, he certainly is in more ways than one.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Mishlove.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	First off, I'd like to say that all my prayers go out to... Terrence McKenna.
	Yes, and I hope he feels better soon and that he's back on his feet as soon as possible.
	And I was wondering if people are able to go back in time is there any way that we would be able to know who they are and if we'd be able to detect what they are doing and if there's any way that we might be able to figure out what they might be doing and if there's any way could we be able to No.
	What could happen in the future?
	That's a lot of questions.
	They're all very good questions and I'm afraid that they're such good questions that I don't have very clear answers to them.
	I'd love to have answers to those questions myself.
	I can partially address the last one about, Ken, is there any way that we can know the future?
	As a parapsychologist I am Very, very interested in the whole question of precognition and prophecy and forecasting.
	And I do think that we can know the future to a certain extent, but it's a pretty limited extent.
	The future has a lot of unknowns.
	Just every now and then, we can see it with great clarity.
	A wild card line very quickly.
	You're on the air with Dr. Mishlove here before the bottom of the hour.
	Hi.
	Hi, this is Mike from Amargosa calling.
	Hello Mike, next to me in Amargosa.
	Yep.
	Studying the source of consciousness has been my primary interest for the past 24 years, and prior to moving here I was studying with some sages in Santa Cruz, and prior to that I was studying with a sage in India, and when I leave here that's what I'll be doing, studying with sages.
	And I wanted to say something about using one's mind to discriminate between that which can actually heal humans, And spiritual entertainment, which cannot heal humans.
	All right.
	Oh, that's such a good point.
	I've got a break coming up.
	Can you hold through the break?
	Sure.
	All right.
	We'll get directly back to you following the break.
	So sorry to hear about Terrence.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to ArcBell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 26th, 1999.
	This is a video of the original song.
	you Why, why would you go to this place?
	Why, why can't you know, take this pain, on this trip, just for me?
	Why, take a free ride, take my breath, I'm gonna see, it's my dream
	But I've been holding on for years, worked so hard just to end my fears
	Had to end my life, it's all been a mess, but by now, I know, I'm not giving up
	You're listening to Arc Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 26th, 1999.
	Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove is my guest this morning.
	Good morning everybody.
	Kind of a shadow over everything on the news of Terrence McKenna.
	We'll get back to Dr. Mishlove and fascinating question for him from the caller we've still
	got on the line in just a moment
	and back now to Dr. Mishlove and our guest doctor Are you there?
	I'm here.
	Caller?
	Yes.
	You were doing very well.
	Please continue.
	The mystics say that the cause of human sorrow is the ego and that by ending the ego one ends sorrow.
	They say that what remains is the one infinite eternal self whose nature is awareness, peace, perfect, whole and complete without sorrow.
	It's an extraordinary possibility and throughout the ages they've been saying that they are reporting on their experience, that they're not playing with concepts.
	So that this freedom for mankind If one is going to be open-minded about anything, this would be a good thing to be open-minded about.
	But the subject, the great obstacle, is distraction.
	You know, like watching television is distraction.
	We could go on an endless list.
	So it's important to discriminate, I think, between that which is profitable, that which is not, that which is leading somewhere.
	Something that can profoundly change us humans with our horrible past.
	And if we're always distracted by things that cannot change us, then I don't see how that change will ever occur.
	Even extra-sensory perception is listed in many, many mystical traditions as being an example of distraction.
	I mean, the distractions are almost endless, and they say that one of the reasons is that the ego wants to preserve itself.
	And therefore, it's sort of a lie or a game that it keeps our own good from us through endless distractions.
	So I wondered if your guest had anything to say on that subject?
	I'll bet he does.
	Doctor?
	What a fascinating perspective.
	Thank you for that.
	What we're getting at here is the nature of paradox.
	And the nature of transformation, because in the mystical traditions it's also pointed out there is nothing to transform.
	In a sense we're all already there.
	The part of us that thinks it can transform itself to become enlightened can never do that.
	Yes, that's why they say the ending of the eagle.
	They don't really talk about the gaining of this infinite self.
	Since we are already this infinite self, but the ending of the illusion, which is the ego, in other words, everything you said is totally correct.
	That's why the focus is not on gaining that infinite purity, but the ending of this ego.
	And if we're always distracted, I don't see, by things which will not produce the ending of this ego, I don't see how a human being will ever then arrive at the ending of that ego.
	But there is no arrival.
	There are paradoxes within paradoxes within paradoxes here.
	You raised another issue I'd like to address as well about the psychic phenomenon and the possibility that that is a distraction, which it could be as much as music or food or anything else could be a distraction.
	Historically, in spiritual traditions, there have been two viewpoints about it.
	One, that pursuing psychic phenomenon can be a distraction, insofar as it is enhancing the ego.
	The other view, normally associated with the tantric traditions, is that things of the senses, including psychic phenomenon, an appreciation of these things, can be a sign That one is on the path and that one can enjoy these things and experience them and use them to great benefit without it becoming an ego trap.
	Yes, especially if you're initiated into such a tantric path or a Tibetan Buddhist path, that would be true if you're speaking within that context.
	However, there probably are far more contexts in which one is simply seeking some sort of an extra-sensory perception or something like that.
	And not really part of a tradition which is specifically aimed at using that psychic phenomena to end the ego.
	In other words, everything you say is correct if you are part of a tantric tradition or you're actually part of, say, a Tibetan Buddhist tradition.
	Let's come back to the ego, if we may.
	One of my great mentors was Arthur Young, the man who invented the Bell Helicopter.
	He was also a great spiritual teacher to me and a cosmologist.
	He took issue with this idea that we have to end the ego or abolish the ego, especially because the word ego has so many different meanings in our culture.
	It can be.
	There is a false ego that we need to eliminate, but there is another kind of ego which is absolutely necessary for mastery.
	He would say that you can't sacrifice your ego on the altar of spirituality until you've really cultivated an ego.
	Well, that isn't too much of a problem for most humans.
	Most of the six billion human beings on the earth have cultivated an ego fairly well, actually.
	Well, you see, my mentor would disagree.
	I think he would say that cultivating an ego means really achieving mastery of the physical plane.
	That's why we have an ego.
	And if you see the way we're making a mess of things on this planet, it may be that we don't have enough.
	Yeah, I follow what you're saying.
	That is one perspective.
	Would you think that that perspective that you just named would be what most of the Buddhas and Sages and the Enlightened and the Awakened, in terms of the thousands of years of history that we have and all these various traditions, do you think that that would be maybe a consensus of their experience?
	Or do you think that what you just named would be sort of Sort of a rarer viewpoint.
	Well, I don't know.
	I can't presume to speak for the consensus of spiritual teachers on this planet, but I guess I can say from my own perspective that we're in a new moment in time, and we can't rely just on the spiritual teachers of the past.
	We have to address the needs of the present.
	We have to see things freshly also through our own eyes.
	Well, maybe it would be good to just say that that's one possibility, but not get too close-minded and say that definitely that it's not necessary to limit ourselves exclusively to the teachers of, say, the past or those sages in the present.
	In other words, what you say is a possibility, it may or may not be true, But if what you say is incorrect, that could have bad implications for people.
	One thing, you mentioned about not being able to speak for the spiritual teachers in the past, and of course I would agree with that, but we do have all these written records, you know, all these, not just Bhagavad Gita like you mentioned earlier, but actually hundreds of Gitas, And one of the Tibetan canons has 5,000 volumes, another has 15,000 volumes.
	I could go on and on, and I'm not going to take up the time to name hundreds of things, but the point is, we do have all this written record.
	So we could, in terms of seeing what the consensus was in the sages reporting their direct experience on what went in human sorrow, we could read those records and study them and see what the consensus is.
	Would you agree with that?
	I'm just sort of absorbing what you're saying.
	I'm trying to imagine reading that whole record.
	Well, yeah, probably not.
	I'm sorry.
	I'm at fault there because naming the Tibetan canons with 15,000 and 5,000 is a bit much.
	But we could sample something from the Tibetan traditions and the Vedantic traditions and the Zen Buddhist traditions.
	You know, I think if we do that, we would find that there's not exactly a final answer, that it's a process.
	There's always another comment.
	is in terms of of what the pages think will actually end our human you know i
	i think if we do that we would find that it is not exactly a a final answer that
	is that it's a process there's there's always another comment i i'm very moved for
	example and and perhaps you are also by the heart sutra
	in buddhism which suggests that we go beyond and beyond
	Every time we think we've learned a teaching, we think that teaching gives us the answer of how to alleviate suffering, then we need to go beyond that.
	Beyond that and beyond that and always beyond.
	I was listening to a tape, a recording of a sage today who was saying that a beginner actually has some advantage in this because he hasn't learned all these techniques.
	And the techniques then become a mental concept which become a burden.
	Yeah.
	And I think that's very similar to what you were just saying.
	However, there are living sages today.
	Many, many of them.
	There always have been.
	And my experience with both studying the written record and studying the sages is that they speak in very, very final terms about this.
	When the ego's gone, it's gone.
	And it's a finality.
	And I'm just relating my experience, my understanding.
	Well, yes, they do, because it was never there in the first place.
	Yes, that's right, they say that.
	I guess an important point is that there are all these choices out there, spiritual choices.
	I mean, there are thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands.
	So the question is, what sort of criteria does one use In order, not to simply be on just some path that isn't leading anywhere, but one which can actually, one which can end the illusion.
	Let me understand something you said earlier, Caller.
	You suggested that paranormal things, or things of the paranormal, PSI ability, whatever it may be, Yes.
	You suggested may be a ultimate distraction itself.
	So there are the sages, yes.
	In most traditions, not including tantric and also not including Tibetan Buddhism.
	All right.
	Yeah, and there are actually a few others which that is not true for.
	Many other traditions refer to the gifts of the spirit.
	Yeah.
	Okay, caller, thank you very much.
	It was a very intelligent discourse.
	Do you acknowledge that as a possibility?
	Acknowledge what?
	The possibility that these things that you have studied, that you have your doctorate in, are themselves distractions from another prescribed path.
	I think they can be.
	I see people all the time who pursue psychic phenomenon and sort of Do it to their own detriment because they identify with it on the ego level.
	That can be a real problem and often is a real problem for people today.
	You'll meet many people who are gifted psychics and who are not necessarily spiritually evolved, just as you might meet gifted musicians who are not necessarily spiritually evolved or gifted mathematicians.
	Fascinating, really fascinating and true.
	Ease to the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Rich Love and Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	I have so much to say, I'm going to try to make it quick.
	First, I'd like to say, I'd like to send my love and well wishes to Terrence and his family.
	Yes, thank you.
	I think that's horrible, but definitely he should not get discouraged.
	What a horrible shock though.
	I know, I still can't believe it.
	But I do know he lives in Hawaii and there's a plant that grows there called Noni which is said to eliminate tumors and possibly cancerous growth.
	So he might want to look into that as well.
	And it's interesting that Dr. Mishlove mentioned the visualization exercises because that also came to my mind when you were telling us what happened.
	One of the issues I wanted to bring up, a caller had mentioned that the upheaval with the youth today had to do with this 60s mentality.
	The reason that disturbed me is because a lot of these kids are growing up with guns and that to me does not seem like a 60s mentality to And I'm not going to say where I'm from because I was hoping I could send you a tape.
	On the 20th of this month, when the second school shooting occurred, I was up late at night and there was a commercial that came on, a local commercial, and it was for a gun show.
	And it was the person who was doing the commercial was inviting Everyone should bring their family to the gun show, which I found particularly disturbing.
	And I think that this issue of youth violence is so multifaceted, and when we try to say this is the reason, and we give one reason solutions that were further from the truth than we should be.
	I wanted to bring up the issue that a lot of these kids, they were mostly white males.
	There's a big issue with white men not being able to express their spiritual or emotional selves.
	That issue is not being addressed.
	Everyone wants to blame guns or to blame parents or this and that.
	And I would like to mention that most of these boys were suicidal and willing to sacrifice their lives because they were hurting so.
	And I was just hoping that maybe we could get to another greater issue, which is all of these kids felt persecuted.
	Whether it was true or not, that was their reality, therefore it was their truth.
	And not to down Colorado, because I love Colorado, but a lot of the people in Colorado in the aftermath, because they're mourning, they are now not persecuting, but they are now calling the rest of the members of this trench coat mafia, they're calling them killers, which is further isolating these kids.
	And if they really do have fascination with guns, I think it's very destructive for people not to... It's just not safe anymore to ridicule people because you don't know how they're going to react.
	Alright, but that's a symptom of the state of our social being right now, more than it is anything else.
	Was always something that one could do without fear of an AK-47 showing up in their face in previous years.
	So something has quite obviously changed.
	And of course it is not the gun, it's the willingness of the people to use it.
	Comments, Doctor?
	Well, I'd like to go back to the first thing that this caller said.
	All of her comments, I thought, were very cogent and intelligent and well stated.
	The first thing she said is that she wanted to offer her love and compassion, and I think well wishes was her phrase, towards Terrence and his family.
	I feel much the same way.
	I think Terrence is probably the most or certainly one of the most articulate people I have ever met in my life.
	The gift with words has always been to give voice to the deepest and highest thoughts that I myself have felt and thought.
	If I would want anybody to be around for a long time, it would be Terrence, and I suspect many of your listeners feel that way.
	The highest gift in spiritual traditions, I think universally, the highest psychic gift even, is the gift of compassion and the gift of love.
	It is a gift that comes from the heart, not from the ego, and to the extent that you and I and other listeners feel that compassion for Terrence, I think that's a healing and a healthy thing, and nothing to be afraid of.
	All right, Doctor.
	Thank you so much, and good night.
	Good night to you.
	All right, folks.
	I would like you to think about Terrence McKenna, if you would.
	I would like you to do a mass concentration, an experiment, and let's see if we can help Terence.
	And what you need to do is visualize a tumor in his brain, in his frontal lobe, becoming smaller.
	I'm going to tell you more about this in the next couple of days as I develop What it is that I want us to try and do.
	But if you send light, and you send warmth, and you send love, and you send healing, and you send the whole concept of a tumor shrinking, then maybe we can make it happen.
	We can but try.
	And this would appear another opportunity to try.
	So you'll be hearing more about that in the next few days.
	Tomorrow night, a very important show.
	I suggest you be here.
	I'm Art Bell from the high desert.

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