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May 19, 1999 - Art Bell

18:08

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Richard C. Hoagland - Miami Circle Update (hour 1)

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is new with the circle?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Update us on the circle.
unidentified		Well, last night there was a major event held at the very splendiferous Gusman Auditorium here in downtown Miami, sponsored by the Dade Heritage Trust, which we mentioned on the show several months ago.
		This is one of the local preservation organizations of Dade County.
		And Bob Carr was the featured speaker, and he gave a very interesting overview of where we stand scientifically and politically with the circle, not the least of which is he gave a very nice acknowledgement of some of our work, particularly in the area of comparing it to Stonehenge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you summarize, I'm sorry to interrupt, can you summarize where we do stand scientifically?
unidentified		Well, scientifically, the radiocarbon dating of the material from the holes, the 30 rectangular basins that are arranged in this 38-foot perfect circle, dates it to, at a minimum, 2,000 years.
		Now, you can't have new stuff or older stuff in those holes if they had been filled with something.
		So we know that if those holes held stones, like Stonehenge, that the minimum date where the stones were removed was 2,000 years ago.
		And that's when the junk flowed in.
		And that's the material that Bob at his laboratories has managed now to date to about the 2,000-year time horizon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
unidentified		Politically, as you know, the circle was in danger several months ago because of Michael Bauman and the plan to build a high-rise, twin high-rise on the 2.2-acre site.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they had the machines to plow it down right there.
unidentified		There were the bulldozers sitting there just waiting to go into action.
		And it was the mayor of Miami-Dade County, Alex Vanellis, and his courageous decision to go forward with a legal process called Eminent Domain that, of course, put all that on hold.
		And the judge issued a stay, an injunction.
		And so no one has literally been on the site literally until the last couple, three days.
		Not even all those of us who really wanted to be on the site.
		What happened a couple, three weeks ago is that the judge held a hearing, and the hearing was to see whether or not there was just cause for the county to proceed with the eminent domain proceeding.
		And the Bauman attorneys lost, and the county won.
		This now goes to trial.
		A jury of 12 men and women, a jury of our peers, will ultimately decide here in Miami the fate of the Miami Circle, including how much money, if any, Mr. Bauman is going to receive from the county for the process of taking over the property.
		Now, in fairness, he should receive what he has expended, which is the $8 million for the land.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's what I was going to say, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It wouldn't be fair to just take it away from him.
unidentified		But, I mean, there have been inflated estimates ranging up to $20, $30, $40 million that the Bauman camp has been claiming that they're owed, and that's what the trial will kind of shake out.
		And it promises to be a very interesting legal proceeding.
		In fact, it might, at least for the Miami area here, hold as much interest as parts of the OJ trial, given the level of interest in this community now on something this old and this ancient and this interesting.
		A more recent development is in the last couple of days we have learned that Senator Bob Graham, who is one of the two senators from Florida, has introduced about a month ago, a month and a half ago, in Washington in the Interior Committee a bill to make the circle part of the national park system.
		And next week, on Tuesday, the 25th, that bill comes up before committee, and there will be hearings.
		Every bill before Congress has to usually go through a hearing process where outside experts and the public and whatever are invited in for testimony.
		And Bob told me last night that he has been invited to Washington next Tuesday to the committee hearings.
		That's where the posting on our website tonight, Miami Circle Reaches Washington, comes in.
		And I talked with the senator's office this afternoon, and they said very forthrightly that if people care about this all over the country, they need to express their concern to the senators so that they can take the faxes and the emails to the floor when the vote comes.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do they do that?
unidentified		Well, I have two fax numbers for the senators here from Florida, Senator Bob Graham and Senator Connie Mack.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		And we have those fax numbers also posted on the Enterprise website on the first item.
unidentified		So if you don't get them here and you go to your computer, just click on Miami Circle Goes to Washington and you'll get them there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but for everybody else.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		Senator Graham's fax number, if you want to see the circle included as part of the National Park System, is 202-224-2237.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		That's 202-224-2237.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And Senator Connie Mack's fax number is 2022 8022.
unidentified		202-224-8022.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's for Senator Mack.
unidentified		Senator Mack.
		Now, if people send faxes, and you can send any opinion you want.
		I mean, you don't have to agree to preserve the circle.
		You can say, you know, plow the damn thing under.
		The point is that this is democracy, and if you express your opinion, it's important that the people who care, the people who have an opinion, express it.
		It's really, really, really simple.
		I talked to the office this afternoon, and they said that the more encouragement they get, the easier it will be for Graham, who is the sponsor of the bill, to convince the other senators to make this as part of the national park system.
		And we're actually talking about Biscayne Bay National Park.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, enough taxes, even though they're paper, actually finally create backbone.
unidentified		We've won a huge one, but we haven't won it yet.
unidentified		What we've done is won a stay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And what we now have is a two-pronged effort to put it over the top.
		And if people care, and from the letters and cards that were sent to me during my convalescence, a lot of people care a lot.
		It's really simple to take a couple of minutes and sit down and send them a note and say, we do care.
		This is a wonderful idea.
		Please examine it carefully.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I will repeat the facts numbers toward the end of the hour for everybody, so get your paper and pencil.
		What's going on with the Hubble telescope?
unidentified		Well, this is a switch because from the sublime To the usually ridiculous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we had been told for years, you and I talked about it, Richard, a million times, the Hubble cannot take pictures of the moon.
		Why?
		Because the moon is too damn bright.
		That's what they always said.
unidentified		It became the NASA mantra.
		Ever since we found structures in the old Apollo and lunar orbiter images, one of the things that I have been itching for is to have NASA turn this exquisite, incredible instrument upstairs, 250,000 miles away, and at certain key times, like at new moon or during eclipses or certain phasings, look in certain portions of the lunar surface, and the Hubble telescope would be able to gather us unimpeachable confirmation of the presence of structures.
		At least that was our model.
		And every time we tried to pursue it, everybody up and down the line, from headquarters to the Space Telescope Institute, kept saying, oh, it's too damn bright.
		You can't look at the moon.
		You'd break the telescope.
		And you, in fact, had a couple of guys on.
		You had Don Savage and Rayard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		And you asked them the key question, and they are on record as saying the Hubble could not look at the moon because it was too bright.
unidentified		Well, guess what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They've done it.
unidentified		On April 16th, a few days before my 54th birthday, for some reason, somebody forgot the mantra.
		And they pointed the Hubble at the moon and took about a dozen images in a mosaic of the Copernicus and Kepler crater region, which is kind of in the middle of the lunar disk, at high noon on the moon when the moon is as bright as it ever gets.
		And they also took a series of images in an unseen instrument called the STIS, which is the Space Imaging Spectrometer.
		And they've shown us the visible light images, and they haven't shown us the infrared images.
		And we think that was the real reason why they did this.
		Now, there's a whole posting on our web called Another Lie from NASA, because this really was a lie.
		Even Sky and Telescope, in their issue in April, made notice of the fact that they were surprised because, according to all available information coming from the agency, they couldn't point Hubble at the moon because it was too bright.
		It would break the telescope.
		It would, you know, break off the detectors or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Surely they have some explanation for why they can now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Zero at it.
unidentified		Absolutely zero.
		It's like, well, this agency is unaccountable.
		You put in questions, you try to find answers, and, I mean, look at the whole Cassini thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
unidentified		Are you following that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, of course.
unidentified		Well, there's this huge controversy about 72 pounds of plutonium careening past the Earth in August on the Cassini spacecraft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And yet when you ask NASA for the technical data as to how the little plutonium canisters would survive if this thing were to re-enter the Earth's atmosphere, they give you arm waving, they give you assurances, and they give you not one engineering study.
		So NASA has become incredibly arrogant, even on something as profound as human safety.
		So in terms of why they suddenly switch hit on taking pictures of the moon, I mean, we have a theory.
		Mike Berra and I have propounded a theory, which is kind of based on some of the work of Chris Carter.
		Remember, I have been saying over the years that most of the system is honest.
		Most of NASA is what everybody thinks it is, or people going to work and doing the best for God, country, and apple pie, and they really believe all the fine words that I used to believe back when I was working with Walter and covering the space program.
		Then there is a dark contingent, a rogue element that has somehow taken control, and the honest guys don't even know these other guys exist.
		Well, what I think may have happened, and this is speculation, is that there is a beginning perception on the part of the honest guys as to what the dishonest guys have been up to.
		And the clearest way to blow the cover, to blow the lie of the dishonest side out of the water and expose it to the light of the moon, the light of day, was to simply take some pictures of the moon with Hubble and prove that that assertion was a lie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure would be interesting to know what went on, what change went on to allow this to occur.
unidentified		Well, this is a theory.
		I mean, I can't prove it because no one's going to pick up the phone and say, okay, Hogan, this is what's going on.
		I mean, the closest they come to it is to slip us images anonymously and things like that.
		And people do call me anonymously and give me tips.
		But as you know, we get into a lot of hot water when we, you know, pursue some of those.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I know.
unidentified		The EQ Pegasus example is one.
		But in this case, you have an absolutely stated policy position, a technical position, that the moon was too bright to be photographed, and suddenly, there she is.
		Now, there's no way around it.
		They lied.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about the possibility that on one of the recent space missions, they added something that allowed them to do what they couldn't previously do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there that possibility?
unidentified		Fine.
		Tell us that.
		But technically, I know that's not possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they haven't said that?
unidentified		No, they have not said that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It really is a mystery.
		Because, I mean, you're right.
		I mean, for years now, they really have said it's impossible.
		It is too bright.
		It would destroy the television.
unidentified		J.J. Mercier in Malta had an email from one of the officials at the Space Telescope Institute, no less than the head of public affairs, who claimed flatly the moon is too bright.
		Even the dark side of the moon, I think he meant the earth-lit portion, meaning when you look at the moon, you see a bright crescent, there's the faint old moon and the new moon's arms.
		Well, that faint portion is shining by reflected light of the earth.
		NASA claimed that even the earth-lit portion was too bright.
		Officially, it's on the website.
		Just go check.
		So this, of course, means that something has changed.
		Now, I am crossing my fingers and praying that the good guys, the honest guys, the ones who really have believed all the stuff that's been said about NASA and what they were supposed to be doing, are beginning to wake up to the fact that there's something rotten in Denmark.
		There's something weird going on.
		There's a hidden, duplicitous agenda.
		And if that's true, as we publish more things and we have some wulus waiting to be published in the next couple of weeks, and we're going to need a lot more time to go into them, and I want to bring on Mike to help me do this, we're going to basically raise a lot of eyebrows.
		We have received information.
		we have pursued leads, and part of my recovery here in Miami, because we do have phones and internet in Miami, has not been just recovering.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, in other words, you've been working.
unidentified		Well, working is a very good therapy, all right.
		I mean, you know me.
		I'm like a you know a Dalmatian.
		I hear the firebell and I'm off the ladder in the truck and out the door.
		So, it's been very therapeutic.
		You know, what they say, rust and rest, or rest and rust?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		We have a very nice link right on the front of my website, which says, Richard Hoagland writes in my absence.
		So if they go to my website and click on that, they'll go right on over.
unidentified		Well, you know, part of what we're looking at is to turn the tables on some of this political obfuscation.
unidentified		I mean, when I kind of went away because of the heart problem, I would check into the web every once in a while, and I found the most awful, astonishing bizarreness going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
unidentified		And it's distraction.
		It is total distraction.
		And what is it trying to distract us from?
		Distract us from the search.
		We're trying to figure out who's doing what and why they're not leveling.
		And someone is trying to change the conversation.
		Well, they're not succeeding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, they're not.
		I mean, awful things were said that you faked your heart attack.
		And by the way, that is addressed in the little book.
unidentified		Well, this is the most incredible stupidity because all they had to do is pick up a phone and talk to umpteen doctors who would charge me close to $100,000 for this experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I noticed you posted your bills.
unidentified		I posted the bills.
		Come on.
		I mean, this is America, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
unidentified		Money talks, and everybody, well, I mean, if there's such idiocy out there that I fake my heart attack, the quickest, simplest way is to simply put the bills and challenge these people to put up or shut up.
unidentified		If this is fake, fine, then you pay the bill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Richard, I guess the answer is, look, if you can't get them with fact, make stuff up and personally attack you, and that's the way they think they can get it done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the public is a whole lot smarter than that.
unidentified		Well, if you chart this on a curve, you find that things were going along kind of the way they've always gone along until we touched some third rails, until we apparently triggered somebody's nervous system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
unidentified		And you have to go back and look at what were we talking about?
		What were we looking at?
		Well, one of the things we're looking at is this window of opportunity every June and November called the crossing of the torrid meteor stream when we cross the orbit of Comet Enki.
		And we have found out a great deal of, frankly, interesting and disturbing information about how deeply NASA quietly, unknown to anybody, has been pursuing this with our money on behalf of whom?
		And the more of the attacks and the more of the shrillness and the more of the absurdities have been paraded, the more I am convinced that we are on the right track.
		And it's the old, you know, Star Trek idiom, steady as she goes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Steady as she goes.
		And all the attacks really mean these personal, hard little attacks.
		All it really means is you're getting close.
unidentified		That's our assessment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what it means.
		That's my assessment, too.
		They don't waste the time nor energy to do these kinds of attacks unless you are close to something.
		Otherwise, they just don't get it.
unidentified		There are interesting surprises in the next couple of weeks.
		Equal to the fact now that Hubble has photographed the moon when for half a decade we were told it was flatly impossible.
		What else is going on that people say is impossible?
		For instance, what's going on on Mars even as we speak tonight?
		Remember, as of March, we are in the mapping orbit.
		The first image that came down, remember the happy face?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I sure do.
		Yes, I do.
		Yes, I do.
unidentified		Yeah, well, I talked at length with Town Ben Flandern the other night, and there's been a stunning new discovery on Mars from the magnetic instrument on board, which is this peculiar magnetic striping.
unidentified		And what we need to do is to have Tom on somnight to discuss how this magnetic striping beautifully fits his exploded planet theory with Mars as a former satellite of the missing big planet in the asteroid belt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen, my friend, we'll do that and a lot more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You just hurry up and get better.
unidentified		Well, I'm perfectly better.
unidentified		One of the key things is I'm supposed to fly to Los Angeles to talk to some television and film people about a couple other projects, and I'm looking forward to it because they pressurize airliners to 8,000 feet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		So if I can walk up and down the aisles and run up and down the aisles and, you know, chase stewardesses, maybe I can go home again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Give it a shot, Richard.
		Okay.
		You only live once.
		Listen, my friend, good night, get some sleep, and we all look forward to your complete recovery.
unidentified		Thank you, Eric.
		And thank everyone for all those extraordinary cards and letters.
		They really meant a tremendous amount.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, my friend.
unidentified		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's Richard C. Hoagland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art B. Travel.

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