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April 21, 1999 - Art Bell
02:37:53
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Cold Fusion & Oil Company Coverup - Eugene Mallove
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Time Text
You take the long way home You take the long way home
You never see what you wanna see You never cling to the galore
You take the long way home You take the long way home
When you're up on the big and tall, and you need a home I don't care at all.
I may ignore you.
But there's no right thing to think you do.
It's a tragedy.
It's a tragedy.
I'll be back with an old friend.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
Billy Rose in for Art, and we have a guest tonight that will knock your socks off.
First of all, he's a very, more than intelligent.
What I wanted to say was he's an extremely well-spoken man.
He is a highly educated man.
He has been fighting the good fight for a long time.
And we are going to find out the very latest tonight about cold fusion.
Now that sounds very technical, and I want to tell you right now, if you're about to turn the radio off, that this is not going to be a technical discussion, unless you want it to be.
Dr. Manilov is very well equipped to handle any technical question relative to this subject of cold fusion.
But what it is, how it works, Well, I saw an interesting video that he produced called, uh, Fire from Water.
Would you believe that?
Well, a lot of scientists don't.
And yet, there it is.
It makes a lot of good sense.
And we'll talk about that in just a moment.
And my guest will be with us in just a moment.
I wanted to, first of all, wish you a kind and gentle night.
And I do mean that.
And I wanted to give you a couple of phone numbers because no matter how many times I say it, there are lots and lots of people who write to me and say, How do I get this information?
I tried the website.
It didn't work.
I was sleeping or I was driving in my car.
I didn't have a pencil.
How do I get the information?
It's really pretty simple.
You go on your website to www.artbell.com.
It's one of the best websites possible and it has all the latest information.
It talks about the guests.
It tells you what they had to say and what their website numbers are and how to get in touch with them and all that kind of stuff.
Send me hundreds and hundreds of emails and faxes about.
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It is the best way.
If you do not have a computer, then you dial 541-664-8829.
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And if you want to order one of the programs on tape, you can do that by calling 1-800-917-4278.
Now, before I bring on Dr. Malov, we talk on this program a great deal about government
conspiracies, the terrible industrial complex that rules our world, and there are many,
many stories about how inventions that work, that could make our life easier, are somehow
always put down, hidden.
The companies, the gas companies, we hear these stories all the time.
Somebody invented a way to go a thousand miles on a gallon of gas.
And the guy comes to the gas companies and they buy it up.
And that's the last you ever hear of it.
You've heard those stories.
But I'm in the radio business.
And this story is exactly what we're talking about and we'll be talking about all night.
It's how the big guys, the fat cats, Create a situation where something that would save us millions and billions of dollars, solve our energy problems, is put aside because it disrupts the thinking of those who say that there are laws of physics and laws of chemistry and you can't break them.
Oh, really?
That's why I do believe in UFOs, because all these people that say, oh, they couldn't get from here to there, it takes so much time.
Well, what do we know about The real world of physics, and the real world of chemistry, and the real world for that matter, and I'm not talking about just our world, I'm talking about our universe and the other universes that are suddenly discovering out there.
But let me tell you this story quickly, because I want to get to Dr. Mellon.
There is a thing that you probably have in your home.
It is called FM radio.
And you're probably saying, boy, this is really good.
I like this.
It makes music sound wonderful.
And you're probably saying to yourself, what was this thing invented?
Sometime after the Second World War.
Wrong.
Not so.
There was a guy, and I think I've got his name right.
I didn't have a chance to look it up.
I believe he was called Herbert Armstrong.
And way back in the 30s and late 20s, he invented FM radio.
But a guy by the name of General Sarnoff, who was in charge of RCA and NBC, No way, no how, was going to let Herbert Armstrong get that FM out into the marketplace, because it was so far superior to AM radio.
And so General Sarnoff insisted we had this investment for our cd huge investment
in these radios and you were
if you're old enough to remember the great big ones that like td sets do today
and what we're going to make a obsolete not going to happen so
what he did armstrong well it's a long long story and i won't get into it but
what he did basically darmstrong was norm vilify m
say he was no good et cetera
after the second world war television came into being
and start off new how much better if m was in terms of sound quality
And you didn't have the static and it was just in every way superior.
What he did was stole it from Armstrong and put it into all the FM sets, I mean all the television sets.
And so all of the television sets you have have FM sound.
Well of course Armstrong was absolutely appalled.
He sued Sarnoff.
I don't think, because I didn't again look this up from memory, I believe that he just broke his heart and I think he died before the lawsuit came to fruition, because Sarnoff kept delaying it and delaying it and delaying it.
Why do I tell you that story?
Because I don't want you to think what we are going to present tonight, which is horrifying, to think there is something that is made out of water.
Plentiful, all over the world.
Excepting the Sahara Desert, of course.
That there is something like water, or made of water, that could absolutely put the fossil fuel people out of business overnight.
We could drop the price of the fuels that we use from what we're paying these days, a dollar and a half roughly, to maybe ten cents.
Look what it would do to the economy.
Just think how, and like Tesla, you know, Tesla, the reason we have wires in our homes now is because nobody would listen to Tesla when he said, we don't have to put it on wire, we can send it out over the air.
No, they wouldn't listen, because you can't put a, you can't put a monitor, you can't put a gauge on what goes out over the air, but you sure can look at all the meter readers that would be out of business.
I'm saying to you that what Dr. Malove has to present to you tonight is terribly important in the context of the Art Bell Show.
Because it's another proof of how the military-industrial complex sits on an invention that makes sense, and they run frightened.
They run frightened because they may not have the plush jobs, the millions that they make.
And then there's the other side of the story, which I'm sure Dr. Mallow will give us first, and that is that cold fusion is a reality.
Cold fusion works.
It's had its problems, but it's been 10 years since it was discovered by two fine scientists and Well, there's a big, big story here, friends, and I think a lot of people should be ashamed of themselves to give us the problems that we have today in our society that could be solved so simply.
I'm talking about energy problems, but it's another one of those stories like the FNAM controversy.
All right, I'm going to take a brief, I hope it's brief, break.
And then I'm going to bring Dr. Malov in, and we'll go uninterrupted for quite some time.
So, you stay right there, because what you're going to hear tonight is going to appall you, but it will give you some heart that there is a solution to our problems.
I am Hilly Rose, in for Art Bell, and I think, I know that Dr. Malov has been on this program before, but not for some four years.
A lot has happened since that time.
And I'll present that to you, instanter.
We are talking tonight about cold fusion.
I'm out.
I'm going to take just a moment here to read a few, just a few of the credits and bona fides of our guest, Dr. Eugene Malov, because it would take all of the rest of the hour if I read every one of them.
But Dr. Malov has been the editor-in-chief and publisher of the bimonthly Infinite Energy magazine.
He holds a master's degree of science and bachelor of science degree in aeronautical and astronautical engineering from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
That ain't a bad school.
And a science doctorate in environmental health sciences, air pollution control, etc., from Harvard University.
He's had a broad experience in various engineering companies, including Hughes Research Laboratories, the Analytic Science Corporation, and MIT Lincoln Laboratory.
And as I say, I could go on and on and on.
Dr. Malove, have I done you proud?
Have I said the right things?
Are you willing to accept what I've said here?
Yes, indeed.
You were most kind and your introduction just now and previously was most gratifying.
Well, I hope it's on target.
I think it is.
I think it is, too, sir.
And I would say to you that the reason I told the story about the radio situation, which I knew, is because I think many people, when I mention cold fusion, are so concerned that what you're going to do tonight is give us a whole big technical thing.
And I know that if somebody calls in, you'll have a technical answer, but I think we need to put this in layperson's terms.
Absolutely.
So maybe the best thing to do to start is to ask you, what the hell is cold fusion?
Well, I think the only way we can really begin to address that is to remind people of how the story began.
Because many people do remember, and some don't, that there was a big news story around March 23rd, 1989.
That's when it all began.
That's when the general world became aware of this controversy which has become known as Cold Fusion.
Doctors Martin Fleischman from England, fellow of the Royal Society, world-class electrochemist, and Dr. Stanley Pons, who was the head of the chemistry department then at the University of Utah.
They gave a press conference on the afternoon of March 23rd, 1989.
And ironically, your listeners should know, this occurred just 12 hours before The Exxon Valdez ran aground off the coast of Alaska.
So there was another big story that happened roughly at the same time.
And almost by cosmic coincidence, what they were announcing, that is Cold Fusion, even though they didn't call it Cold Fusion, would put the oil age eventually out of business.
That hasn't happened yet, as you mentioned.
But what did they say at this press conference?
They said that they had been working with what is called an electrochemical cell.
Not to get too technical here.
They were putting electricity into a jar of water, so to speak.
This water is a form of water that's in all water.
It happens to be called heavy water.
We can get into what that means later, but one out of every 6,500 water molecules is a heavy water molecule.
Okay, it has a special kind of hydrogen in it.
And they said, we put this electricity in, and what we find is we're getting heat out over a period of time, and this heat is so large, well, we measure it very carefully, we cannot describe this by anything we have ever seen before.
And let's face it, Hilly, these people were world-class chemists.
They were getting up in front of You know, international media at the University of Utah, and they were making this rather provocative statement.
And they were either right, that is, they had measured their heat properly, or they were wrong, and they had made a gigantic mistake.
They said, this heat is so large that it's got to be some kind of nuclear reaction occurring in this special cell, and that became known as cold fusion.
I don't understand.
Why is it cold fusion?
Because, I mean, a nuclear bomb is also cold until you make it hot.
Well, okay.
We know that we are living on a planet, Earth, that is warmed by the sun.
And how is that sun producing its wonderful light-giving, life-giving power over the billions of years?
Well, modern physics appears to have concluded that it does work on the basis of what is Hot fusion, or nuclear fusion.
The hydrogen inside the sun, in the deep inner core of it, fuses together, that is, joins, and forms a new element called helium.
That's the kind of gas that you get in little children's balloons.
And this is a nuclear process, a fusion process.
The same kind of fusion that occurs in the hydrogen bomb, the thermonuclear bombs that have been Stored up by the Soviet Union, a former Soviet Union, and the U.S.
City-busting deadly weapons.
This is hot fusion.
And the story from modern physics is that the only way you can get these hydrogen atoms, or actually the center parts, the nuclei of these atoms, the only way you can get them to fuse, join together, is to subject them to incredibly high temperatures.
Millions and millions of degrees.
So when Ponson Fleischmann at this news conference on March 23rd, 1989 said, oh no, we have done it, in effect.
We have done what you've been trying to do with billions of government dollars for decades.
We have done it in a small jar of water.
They didn't say it quite that impolitely, but it was just as well as they had said it that impolitely, because that was the implication.
We have a new way of generating Nuclear energy that doesn't require millions and millions of degrees, such as in hot fusion.
And so, that, my good friend, was the origin of the controversy.
The physicists neither believed it, and they were threatened by it, and they did everything in their power to, instead of trying to confirm Ponson-Fleischmann, try to get rid of him.
It's like the perpetual machine, though.
How much energy do you have to put in relative to how much do you get out?
Well, okay.
Cold fusion is not, quote-unquote, perpetual motion.
Any more than a standard operating nuclear power plant today is perpetual motion.
Now, if you took Ben Franklin, brought him here into the 20th century or near 21st century, and showed him a nuclear power plant today and how it starts up and so forth, he would be amazed.
Where's the smoke?
Where's the coal?
Where's the wood?
Where's the... He didn't have much oil in it, except maybe whale oil.
Where's that?
It's nowhere.
What do we have to power this nuclear plant?
Oh, he'd be shown these metal rods made out of uranium and so forth.
And he would be said, oh, gee, these rods just get hot.
Now, is that perpetual motion?
Absolutely not.
We know that there is a nuclear reaction A so-called fission, a splitting reaction, going on in those rods.
So no one is surprised today when you have pieces of metal that stay hot in a nuclear reactor.
I'm sorry to interrupt you, but we're coming down to the end of this hour, and I'd like to continue right after the break.
Sure.
But you didn't answer my question, and that is, how efficient is it?
In other words, that was really the thrust of my question, not perpetual motion.
In other words, for what you put in, how much do you get out?
Well, it can be an infinite amount.
In other words, in one gallon of seawater, there's hundreds of gallons of gasoline.
Equivalent.
Okay, I think that's a good point to end, and we're only getting started, folks.
We've got a lot of stuff to go through tonight, both from the spooky theory, or the part of obfuscation and fighting standard science, because they say you can't do that, even though they're doing it.
My guest, Dr. Eugene Malove, sitting in for our bell, I am Hilly Rose.
I am a professor at the University of Michigan.
This is Coast to Coast AM, our bell show.
My name is Billy Rose.
Sit again.
And my guest tonight, the...
Dynamic, Dr. Eugene Malov, who is the editor-in-chief and publisher of the bi-monthly Infinite Energy magazine.
The subject tonight is cold fusion.
Now, Dr. Malov, as we had to end, you were saying that from a cup of water, you could get many thousands, thousands of gallons of, or infinite amount of energy, like gasoline.
A quick question, I'll let you go on, and that is, are we talking salt water or fresh water here?
Doesn't matter.
Really?
Let's bring it down to really concrete terms for the for your listeners okay in one cubic mile of ocean what's a
cubic mile let's be absolutely sure everyone knows what that is a mile a chunk of ocean
one mile by one mile by one mile all right mile deep as well right mile deep mile mile mile
north mile east and west and uh a mile deep okay so that chunk of ocean that's a lot of water
All right, but no, actually, well, okay, you think it's a lot of water, but... Well, not compared to the ocean.
No, not compared to the ocean, indeed.
Actually, we might want to say kilometers instead of cubic miles, because that's the way scientists talk, but our English, North American-type folk are more familiar with miles, so let's say they're roughly equivalent anyway.
All right, in one such cubic mile, there is enough of the fuel of cold fusion or hot fusion for that matter so there's no dispute about this hot fusion that is the thing that the government scientists have been trying for decades to do they would say the same thing so there's no dispute about this if you can fuse the heavy hydrogen which is part of the heavy water in that one cubic mile of ocean saltwater freshwater whatever you want that is enough energy in there enough fusion energy to equal
All the known oil reserves on Earth.
Just in one cubic mile.
Now think about that.
That means, if we can find a way, either by hot fusion, or cold fusion, or any fusion of the heavy hydrogens to make helium in seawater, we have solved Earth's problems, because there are energy problems, because there are quite literally almost a billion cubic kilometers of ocean on Earth.
It's startling, it's hopeful, and it's disgusting at the same time.
Right, because we have the solution.
That is, we have the solution in prototype form.
Let us not delude the audience here.
There aren't devices now ready to plug into your home and get you off the grid, but there could be.
And perhaps we could have had them a few years ago had this discovery announced by Drs.
Pons and Fleischman Well, I'm not a physicist nor a chemist, but doesn't it break the laws of chemistry and physics?
that it certainly deserves now in the beginning of this discovery
could have been a mistake and believe me i did not believe it on day one
or did i believe it in fact for about a year after announcement it took me it took many other people a long
time to come to terms with this
i mean this was a shocking concept well i'm i'm not a physicist nor a chemist but
doesn't it break the laws of chemistry and physics it appeared to
because you see
central parts of atoms the nucleus the tiny little nucleus that is the
bulk of the mass of every atom every part of our body Okay, these things are positively charged.
When you try to bang them together, they don't want to go together.
That electrical repulsion force likes repel each other.
They don't want to come together.
In order to bring them close enough together so that they fuse and the nuclear reactions take over, the so-called nuclear force, you have to have, or so they thought, millions and millions of degrees.
But they didn't contemplate the idea that this could be done instead of in a vacuum, which is what the physicists were trying to do for decades.
You know, the sun is in effect in a vacuum.
It's producing its hot fusion in a vacuum, okay, so to speak.
But they didn't contemplate what would happen if you put the hydrogen into a metal like palladium.
That's what Pons and Fleischmann were using.
And others after them came and found that you could do it with nickel if you did the right thing.
And on and on and on.
The original discovery of Pons and Fleischmann, in fact, was but the tip of the iceberg.
It is now this discovery, while not promoted at all by government, In fact, fought by government.
The U.S.
government, in particular.
And ignored and disparaged by government scientists.
Not all of them, but most of them.
This discovery, now, as far as I'm concerned, and as far as hundreds of scientific colleagues that I have are concerned, the proof is overwhelming.
It's not maybe, or if, it's 100%.
In the first year, It was indeed iffy, okay?
Were Ponson-Fleischmann correct?
Well, you know, it was a complex story.
Why did they have a press conference at all?
That became the dominant sin, so to speak, of Ponson-Fleischmann, as criticized by the mainstream media, as influenced by the physicists in academia.
That's the problem.
The physicists in academia did not like this.
They didn't believe it.
They didn't act like true scientists.
They acted like The politicians that they really are.
Let's be fair here.
It didn't really work every time and it couldn't be duplicated in other labs.
That's right.
It couldn't be duplicated.
Well, let's be really accurate.
It couldn't be duplicated easily and trivially on demand, but it was duplicated enough times by enough good scientists that they should have, that is the academic scientists who began to attack it, ...should have been more cautious in their pronouncement.
You know, it wasn't as though this came out in the best way.
Pons and Fleischmann, by their own admission, did not want to make this press conference on March 23rd, 1989.
All right?
They wanted to work another year and a half.
It's a complex story, which I told in my book, Fire From Ice, which came out in 91, by John Wiley and Sons.
Somewhat of an old story, but I concluded then that it was real.
That is a 91 I did.
But it's a complicated story as to what forced them into, or the University of Utah, into this press conference.
But, you know, just because a human disclosure of a discovery, which then is problematic in the way it's reproduced and so forth and so on, just because there are those problems did not give other scientists license to call them frauds.
To pledge their own data, as it was at MIT, to take a positive result, initially positive result, for excess heat, the co-fusion effect, and turn it into a null result.
And then get this Department of Energy panel, which was packed with bigoted scientists who thought, on day one, this is utter nonsense, there's no point in even having a panel, but they had the panel anyway, and this kangaroo court, of Department of Energy hired thugs.
I would like to say, not all of them were thugs.
I was going to say, be a little careful here, though.
All right.
And in all fairness, because I saw your film today, and it's a magnificent job.
Thank you.
Let me say to you that what I like best about it, you spent, it's an hour long, but the first half hour is letting all these scientists who didn't believe in you say what they wanted to say.
That's right.
So it isn't a propaganda film.
That's right.
You put all the negatives on it first.
Thank you.
And then came back.
That's right.
I do get carried away.
I have to apologize.
I sometimes get carried away with my language, because these people, indeed, have been rather nasty.
Okay?
Well, what I learned from your film is that some of these very same people on the government panel, after it was all over and voted no against it, then went out and tried to seek government grants to create Cold Fusion themselves.
You got it.
They did.
I don't like it, but I got it.
Right.
Okay, go ahead, Doctor.
Well, let's talk about this panel.
And how did this panel arrive, to begin with?
All right, it was the announcement.
It became a big news story.
That's the essence of what happened.
It was a premature disclosure, but in a way, looking back retrospectively, it was very good that it happened, because it got the world energized, and good scientists learned how to do it.
They made positive findings, difficult as it was, came to the conclusion that it was positive.
Okay?
The bad side, the downside was, it wasn't all the eggs weren't in a line, all the ducks weren't in water, and so we couldn't immediately reproduce it.
All right.
A guy walked into President Bush's office.
Okay, hold it right there, because I need to go to commercials, and I don't want to interrupt you again.
So, and it's right here.
Okay, a guy walked into President Bush's office, did you say?
That's right.
Or Reagan, was it?
Bush.
Bush, okay.
If anybody is able to walk into a presidential office, it's got to be important.
So, you hang in there, please, Dr. Malove, and we will continue right here on Coast to Coast AM.
The Art Bell Show.
I am Millie Rose, sitting in.
all over the world. This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
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Now, once again, from the Kingdom of Nye, here's Art Bell.
Hillary Rose sitting in, and my guest is Dr. Eugene Malov.
And you were saying, Dr. Malov, that a person walked into President Bush's office.
Yes.
Go ahead.
Yeah, this is how things got off on the wrong track.
And this is by the admission of this now-deceased individual, actually a rather important scientist in our century.
His name was Dr. Glenn Seaborg.
He died recently.
A very, very well-known and respected man.
Yes, indeed.
And in fact, he has an element named after him, Seaborgium.
I think it's element 106.
But in any event, with all due credit to him, he did walk in, by his own admission, On the record, in an interview, on April 14, 1989, which was only three weeks after Ponsonflashman made this announcement, and he is on record as having said to President Bush, this is not really fusion, okay?
That is the discovery that everyone was in an uproar about during this initial period.
It was not fusion, okay?
Now, how did he know that?
He didn't know it.
He didn't know a damn thing, okay?
He just assumed that, theoretically, it couldn't happen.
Of course, many scientists had that same reaction.
It couldn't happen, so don't worry about it.
They were kind of talking, basically, all the upper-monkey-muck scientists and physicists were talking behind closed doors, and the Hot Fusion people, funded by government grants, were talking, you know, this thing has got to be crazy.
This is not real.
This can't happen.
And the reason they thought it couldn't happen was that if it did happen, that is, if the hydrogen was fusing in the metal, it would kill Ponson-Fleischmann with radiation.
And so if Ponson-Fleischmann and their graduate students were not dead, therefore they had to be wrong.
That's in essence what they thought.
But they didn't even give the experiment the time of day after that.
In fact, one of the people who ultimately got on this federal panel, this Department of Energy panel, His name was Professor William Happer of Princeton.
He worked on Hot Fusion for many years, and he was an advisor to one of the top Secretaries of Energy, Admiral Watkins at the time, in the Bush administration, the early days of the Bush administration.
And he said to one of the journalists, I mean, he was reflecting on what his ideas were at the time, he said, you know, I didn't have the heart to tell the Scientific American reporter That just by looking at Pons and Fleischmann on TV, you could tell they were incompetent boobs.
This is a Princeton physicist, deeply immersed in Hot Fusion, shamelessly, in 1993, quoted in one of the negative books against Cold Fusion, stating, on the public record, he knew it was nonsense, because just by looking at Pons and Fleischmann on television, He knew that they had to be incompetent boops.
These two guys were highly respected.
They had a lot of degrees.
They did.
Well, degrees mean, as we now know, during the past ten years of the Cold Fusion War, we know that degrees will get you just about nothing.
You know, I mean, you can have PhDs stacked up, but you can still not know Science 101.
And by the way, this is the most incredible discovery of all.
Of the last 10 years.
More important, even, than Cold Fusion itself.
And that is, we now have proved that most academic scientists with PhDs do not know the basics of science, which is Science 101.
Namely, the data from experiments are much more important than previous theories about how the world works.
And did the scientists learn this when they looked at the history of Galileo and everybody else who was denied?
I loved in your film where you said that when the Wright Brothers went up in their heavier-than-air plane, not one newspaper reporter was there to cover it, not one newspaper reporter, because everybody knew it couldn't be done.
Actually, there were a handful that did, but they got the story wrong.
But the mainstream newspapers, the New York Times and the Washington Post and everyone, back in 1903, And 1903 to 1908, they thought the Wright Brothers were frauds.
And they said so.
Okay?
It took five years of flying in broad daylight before there was a big demonstration that was finally called at Fort Myers, Virginia in 1908, no less.
Five years later, before the idea that two bicycle mechanics had solved the problem that the physicists had said was impossible, would never be solved.
Okay.
This is the same thing, although in a much more extreme form, I would say, that has happened in the case of Fleischmann and Pons and all who came after them.
It's very, very, very similar.
And so in the video, Cold Fusion Fire from Water, which, blessedly, is available to Even as we speak.
Okay, I'll let you give an address for that.
Sure.
But basically, Arthur C. Clarke reflects, and he is a great supporter of cold fusion at this point.
He says he's a little conservative.
He says, I'm 99% sure that it's real.
It's pretty overwhelming.
But he wants to have a little safety margin there, because he's not a person involved in day-to-day evaluation of the data.
But he said, you know, the Wright Brothers encountered the same problem.
I'm amazed that science appears not to have learned some very fundamental facts of how its own house should be conducted.
You know, we shouldn't believe everything that comes along the pike.
Well, I'm surprised you're surprised.
It's comfortable, it's cozy in the university.
It is.
Uh, you know, it's very cozy because the way it works is the government gives money to universities.
It's really not the industrial...
It's not the military-industrial complex that you spoke of earlier.
It's the academic-industrial complex.
Academic-government complex, I would say.
Are you saying to me, Dr. Mello, and I know you can't prove this, nor can I, are you saying to me that the normal fossil fuel people, or the gas companies, that they have no hand in this?
That they aren't paying off people?
Let me say this.
I actually believe, in this case, surprisingly, My thought is that they really aren't.
I don't think the oil people are behind the opposition.
Why would they destroy themselves?
Well, you see, I think they're too stupid.
Honestly, they really are.
They're incredibly stupid.
And also, they're incredibly rich.
And if you take a typical CEO of a large oil company, he's making plenty of money.
Even if he gets fired the next day, he's going to have a fat pension, right?
He doesn't care too much, one way or the other, what the company's working on, whether it's coal fusion or oil or whatever it is.
They could easily switch to coal fusion if they wanted to, if they were smart enough to.
In fact, here's a story from the coal fusion war that will really blow your mind.
Amoco did coal fusion experiments, okay?
And they had just the right equipment, due to oil exploration at the time, a calorimeter, and they hooked it up quickly, and they, lo and behold, their scientists found the excess heat, and this report was much later published, They were ready, set to go, to do a major investment in coal fusion research.
They had no problem with that.
One of their top scientists later divulged this to me.
It was not because they were afraid that it would destroy the oil empire.
It was because the Department of Energy report, which was negative, quickly negative, discouraged them.
In other words, the company executives believed, apparently, the propaganda coming out of Washington.
Okay, they were all set to support it apparently if this, if this tale, not tale, if this report at a scientific meeting by a top Amoco scientist, he was then not of Amoco, but he was from the Texas area, if this story is to be believed, the government's own report screwed up an oil company's intention to get into this.
And apparently Japan has a lot of companies like Mitsubishi that have been fooling around with this stuff, because they know that if it really works, they could power their vehicles without gasoline, and wow, wouldn't that be something?
That's right.
You know, so look, the kangaroo court occurred.
The other fellow, the Darth Vader of Cold Fusion, as I like to say, is John Huizenga.
Now, he came on, as you saw him in the video, you know, you saw him saying, this, we found out, our panel found out, that this contradicted everything we had learned in the last 50 years of physics, of nuclear physics.
And he's damn straight, it did!
Okay?
In other words, what we were seeing in Cold Fusion appeared to contradict What we had learned over the last 50 years.
It was a new environment.
It was a solid state.
It wasn't the vacuum.
Okay?
But he was the head of the panel, and he told the top people from Seaborg and Bush, everyone else, okay?
This is what he told them when they asked him to be the head of the panel.
And he admits this proudly in his anti-cold fusion book.
He said, I told them that it was nonsense.
Don't even have a panel.
In other words, the very person who became the leader of this kangaroo court told them not to even have a court.
In other words, don't bother me with facts, I've made up my mind.
Right, I've made up my mind, but they picked him anyway, of course, and what they got is what, of course...
We did have.
Okay, doctor, I only have a minute here.
In the next hour, I would like you please to bring us up quickly to the late breaking
developments on this, which is why I asked you on the program.
Very good.
You've given us a wonderful hour of history.
Now I'd like to bring us up to date, and then of course I want to get to callers who are
a lot more knowledgeable technically than I am.
So the other thing quickly, if you will, how do people contact you with a magazine, if
they want the magazine, if they want the videotape?
Is there a website or what?
Oh, yeah, sure.
We're linked.
You've kindly linked us from your website, but that's great.
www.infinite-energy.com.
That gives you everything.
But we have a phone number, which you're calling right now.
It's 603.
228-4516, but there is voicemail and we have secretarial services.
Would you give me that web page again?
It's www.infinite-energy.com.
Don't forget the dot com at the end.
I got it.
All right, doctor, you have a libation of some water or something?
All right.
And relax, because we've got a long evening ahead of us.
And I wonder, I'm really interested in what's developing now that maybe is bringing us closer to Cold Fusion.
OK.
For Art Bell, I am Haley Rose on Coast to Coast.
Hail.
La dee da da da... la dee da da da... la dee da da da... la dee da da da da...
I've been growing day by day People are getting ready for the moon
I'm happy, come what may Oh, we're gonna let the music play
What the people need is a way to make them smile It ain't so hard to deal with you somehow.
You gotta give a man's needs, get it all through.
So damn right, my God, they'll ask why.
Oh, wow, you'll never be the same.
Never feel your way, oh wow Never feel your way, oh wow
Never feel your way, all the time Hartfeld is taking your calls in the kingdom of Nye from
west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
From east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
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618-8255 from east of the Rockies 1-800-825-5033 1-800-825-5033 This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier
Radio Networks.
Billy Rose sitting in for Art and tomorrow night on the program Richard Webster will be with us all the way from
New Zealand.
Our guest Monday night was in Norway, and Richard, tomorrow night, is in New Zealand.
The topic is Feng Shui, and you say, well, how much is there to say about Feng Shui?
I don't know, but Richard has written seven, count it, seven books on the subject.
Has to do with gardening, has to do with your homes, has to do with your business.
This could change your life, friends.
It really could.
So I hope that you'll be listening tomorrow night.
Now, let's continue here with Dr. Eugene Malov, who is the editor-in-chief and publisher of the bimonthly Infinite Energy magazine.
And he's got a string of degrees that, you know, you could spend all night talking about.
So he's a very knowledgeable man, a great storyteller, and Dr. Malov, I think now, because I want to get to calls pretty soon, you better tell us what's going on.
What's happening?
You detailed what happened ten years ago.
So where are we today in 1999?
Well, lots has happened.
It's really an overwhelming amount, but let's try to summarize.
Basically, by around 1991, I would say, and certainly when I came to the conclusion, the scientific evidence had built up to 100% certainty.
You know, the phenomenon were found, okay?
It was real, alright?
There was huge energy coming out that could not be explained by ordinary chemical reactions, even though there were problems reproducing it.
And we also detected nuclear changes.
These were not dangerous things.
These were things that did not kill people.
They were nuclear changes.
Okay?
The evidence, the scientific evidence, built up.
So let's distinguish the scientific evidence, which as I say was nearly 100% positive by 1991, two years after the announcement, from the technological aspects.
Like, what can we do as far as making practical devices, even though we don't fully understand the reaction?
And we have to admit to the audience, we don't fully understand the reaction, or reactions, plural, which are taking place.
This does not mean we have no theories.
Actually, it means we have too many theories.
So, here's where it stands on technological developments.
There are many little companies, mostly in the US, but plenty of industrial activity going on abroad, and academic activity in Italy, in Japan, Russia, China, and so forth.
It's all over the world now.
France.
But in the United States, little companies working on this have seen the effects.
And they've sometimes seen them in rather spectacular ways.
Sometimes they've even, in the face of violent opposition by government academicians, have managed to get U.S.
patents, etc.
One company has been prominent.
It's not the only company.
Clean Energy Technologies of Sarasota, Florida.
They, with the Patterson Power Cell, have demonstrated excess heat.
Motorola tested some of their cells, and in every case, found them to be positive.
And this used ordinary water and nickel, with little beads that they had in their cells, special types of electrodes, and they generated a lot of power.
Okay?
In one case, they turned the input power off, and the water kept flowing through and remaining hot.
Okay?
It was a significant test.
Pons and Fleischmann have found that.
There's another company called Blacklight Power Corporation.
That company does not like the term cold fusion.
It has moved to Princeton, New Jersey area, ironically near the Princeton Hot Fusion Laboratory.
And they have a process that appears also to produce excess heat in a big way.
So I urge anyone listening to this also to check the Blacklight Power website.
for further technical information about what they're doing.
Do you have a website address?
They do.
Black Light Power.
One word.
Black Light.
One word.
L-I-G-H-T Power dot com.
Dr. Randall Mills, who is both Harvard and MIT credentialed, he believes that the cold fusion reaction, which I say, he doesn't like that term.
He has his own theory as to how this works.
He does admit there are nuclear changes.
But he has produced, to my satisfaction, data that show excess heat from electrochemical reactions and also reactions that are occurring at much higher temperatures in gas.
We call this gas phase.
In other words, things that would use no liquids at all, but derive from the hydrogen in water.
There's a company in Massachusetts called Jet Energy Technology, and that is By Dr. Mitchell Schwartz, another MIT graduate, and he has excess energy in the form of nickel light water systems.
There's a company in Salt Lake City called Eneco.
They have interesting gas phase type reactions.
Now, recently, another direction has occurred, which might be the quantum leap that will boost, that could conceivably boost, cold fusion very rapidly.
A man by the name of Dr. Les Case, another MIT guy.
God, MIT guys are in this picture big time, even though MIT played a negative role as an academic institution.
Yeah, but it's a pretty good school.
Oh yeah, it is.
I'll agree with that.
I'm proud of being an MIT graduate.
I'm not proud of what MIT officials did to cold fusion, but I'm proud to be a graduate.
Dr. Les Case in New Hampshire has come up with a method of doing cold fusion And he calls it catalytic fusion.
He puts something in a stainless steel cell.
He puts catalysts in there.
He, like an Edison, found the right catalyst.
They have a little bit of palladium and carbon.
And you put it in a cell, and lo and behold, when you put this heavy hydrogen gas in it, it creates what looks like excess heat.
Excess heat coming out of it.
And also, and most importantly, helium production.
Helium Which is the very nuclear product that the anti-coal fusion people said, show us the helium.
In 1989 they said this.
Show us the helium and then we'll believe it.
Well, here's the helium.
It's there.
Russ George of Saturna Technologies on the West Coast.
He has confirmed that at SRI International, to my satisfaction.
Dr. Arata in Japan.
has confirmed a similar type of helium-producing reaction with palladium.
In other words, fine particles of palladium in a special kind of cell producing helium and heat.
Now mind you, Dr. Arata in Japan is a hot fusion man, but he had the guts to test cold fusion and find results, spectacular results, publish these results, And of course, the hot fusion people in the US with their government funding and so forth.
Don't want to hear about this.
Okay, so let me understand this now.
You've got something that is technologically, if that's the word, going to produce tremendous effects.
We haven't touched ecology so far.
We could say coal burning and oil burning and all this pollution in the air would go away.
Completely.
In other words, we will have in the coal fusion age that I predict will emerge out of this.
You know, as a person who has studied a bit about the history of science and technology, as my colleague Jed Rothwell certainly has, I can tell you that the logical conclusion of this can only be one thing.
There is only one possibility, in my opinion, that will come out of this, and that is the fossil fuel age will be ended.
The only issue that remains, in my opinion, is that.
How fast is this going to happen?
This could, in my opinion, have happened much earlier, which is why this is so disgraceful, if instead of belittling it and turning it into a joke and making people so outraged, such as Dr. Pons himself, who changed his citizenship to that of France, he did not like being called a fraud by the U.S.
scientific establishment.
So he left the country, okay?
And he became a French citizen.
But the only thing that is The issue, in my opinion, is the time scale of this.
Now, government is still funding Hot Fusion.
Hot Fusion, in my opinion, is a complete white elephant.
It was a noble cause, and it learned a lot about plasma physics, and there are a lot of people still working on Hot Fusion whom I admire very much, such as Dr. Michael Schaefer from General Atomics on the West Coast.
He had the guts on national radio to stand up and say a few weeks ago on Ira Flato's show, Science Friday on NPR, when Rush George was talking about his cold fusion experiments, that this type of experiment producing helium-4 was worthy of investigation.
There aren't very many hot fusion scientists who will say things like that.
Okay, so what you're saying to me is that the government is putting its money into hot fusion.
Yes.
No money is being put into cold fusion.
Right.
But individual people are willing to put their money in, and when they find something that really, really works, gangbusters, which we're very close to, then they'll become multi-millionaires, and the government will probably tax them, is about what will happen here.
That's right.
Well, I think this will be an era of Virtually free energy.
People laugh when they say, when you use the term free energy, it does sound provocative, but it will be.
That is the implication of coal fusion.
The power levels are so, I mean the energy release per mass of fuel is so great, that for all practical purposes, it will be free.
Stop here for just a brief couple of moments, and then we really need to get some callers who may understand all this stuff better than I do.
But I understand that there are benefits to the environment, to our pocketbook, a lot of other things.
We'll talk about it right here on Coast to Coast AM, the Art Bell Show.
I'm Hillary Rose sitting in.
That's 1-775-727-1295.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
And Hilly Rose sitting in for Art.
775-727-1295. This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
And Hilly Rose sitting in for Art. My email number is hrose at premrad.com and our fax
number is 888-226-4444.
And while we're giving out all these numbers, Dr. Malov, you may, or probably should, give out your website again, because people may not have had a pencil to write it down or something.
Here it is.
www.infinite-energy.com.
And the phone number is 603-228-4516.
That's here in New Hampshire.
uh...
but there's voicemail and so forth as a fax number by the way six oh three two
two four five nine seven five
and what will happen if they call this number they can subscribe to the
magazine or argue with you were magazine if it's a you know if that energy
twenty nine eighty five six issues a year
and uh...
videotape cold fusion fire from water many other educational okay
that fax number two two four five eight million atlantic about the fax number six
oh three two two four
five nine seven five
okay let me uh... get to a caller here and uh... will get more information as
the evening goes on thank you uh...
let's see where do you want me to go line okay started jeff in boston good morning jeff
good morning A couple of questions to your guest and they are, are you willing to contact survivalist groups about this idea to get them using this idea based on their need to use this as a way of perpetuating this idea more?
And the second question is, are you in favor of people taking longer vacations to allow room for full employment so that oil company workers can Find other employment.
I don't think that's the subject here, but you can certainly go with the first one.
Thank you for the call.
Well, the survivalists, um, yeah, you know, as I want to emphasize, there is no device right now, today, to my knowledge, there may be, but I don't know where it is.
Okay.
That is a, other than let's say solar power or wind power or geothermal that will provide you free energy or virtually free energy.
Those sources have problems.
Cold fusion is still in development.
Now, the beauty of cold fusion is that it's a very intense, concentrated power source, so that when it does get developed into technology, which I hope will be in the next few years, it could happen, you know?
This, we're talking about power densities in the kilowatts per cubic centimeter range.
This is a lot of power.
So that when you have such small sources, something the size of your fist, or a gallon jug, or whatever, could power a house, or a car.
Okay?
This is very important stuff, but we do not have it operating in such fashion right now.
In other words, it's in the labs, it works in the labs, but it's not on a commercial basis.
Correct, and in a prototype form.
There are some cases, and they are in dispute, certain of my colleagues will dispute certain performance levels, but that's fine.
We have debates within the coal fusion field.
There are devices that have reached, in my opinion already, total power output of kilowatts.
But, you know, they are not regular.
They are not fully repeatable yet.
Once they are, and I'm convinced they will become that way in a few years through work, then I think the survivalists indeed will have what they want.
People will be off the grid completely.
In any woods, forest, cave, or mineshaft that they want to go down, they will have their own power source and it will not pollute.
Okay, let's talk to Davida in Encino.
Hello, Hilly.
Thank you for taking my call.
Is it okay to talk about something concerning the shooting in Colorado?
No, it really isn't because I have a guest on now.
Okay, I'm sorry on that.
Let's go to Rick in Seattle.
Hi, Rick.
Hi.
Many scientists have reported serious problems reproducing any heat.
Yes, they have.
There has been a lot of research into what might be contaminating the palladium or the deuterium, and what the exact properties or refined methods are necessary to reproduce the reaction, and there haven't been a lot of clear conclusions.
Why has it been so difficult to get consistent raw materials, and how can scientists be sure that the raw materials they have will replicate cold fusion?
Well, you brought up a number of very fine points.
To be answered in 60 seconds.
Right.
Indeed, the problems of materials, the purity of the structure, the crystal structure, etc., is a major issue in co-fusion.
However, there's a way of finessing it.
For example, very thin films are found to be very good for co-fusion and help get around some of those difficulties.
So there are Many hopes right now in this wonderful free enterprise development of coal fusion, not supported by the government at all, interfered with in fact by the government.
There are many possibilities that these difficulties with materials will be cleared up in the coming several years.
Let's hope, let's pray.
Okay, thank you sir.
Dr. Melo, once again, we're at the bottom of the hour, so if you'd just relax for a few moments, we'll come right back to you and take a lot more calls than a lot of people want to talk to you.
This is Hilly Rose sitting in for Art Bell on Coast to Coast AM.
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To the other glass I saw you, it's time you slipped away When the mirror cracked I called you, I tried to hear you
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Take my breath away International callers may reach Art Bell in the Kingdom of
Nye by first dialing the access code for your part of the world.
Then, 800-893-0903.
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800-893-0903. That's 800-893-0903. Now, here again is Art Bell.
Bill Rose in for Art, and my guest is Dr. Malov, Dr. Eugene Malov, talking about cold
fusion tonight.
And before the hour is out, doctor, I'm going to ask you once again, because so many people tune in and tune out for various reasons, I'm going to ask you to go through a simple explanation of how cold fusion works.
But let's do that a little bit later.
Right now I've been sitting here thinking, Boy, I don't know whether I'm upset, because the federal government could be spending all this money, instead of in Bosnia and in Kosovo, they could be spending all this money developing this source that could change our lives in such positive ways.
But the other part of the coin is, if the government did do that, you know damn well they're going to screw it up and stand in the way in the long run.
So maybe it's better that private industry does do this.
I believe so.
The other thing, I've got a question here on a fax from somebody, which looks interesting and you may not know anything about it.
This man is in Albuquerque.
And he says, please ask Dr. Malov if he is familiar with Dennis Lee's over-unity apparatus.
I don't understand this.
I cite a cold fusion type.
Mr. Lee claims that in 1999 his company will install one million of these for free in homes across the nation.
Do you know about this?
Well, I've heard of Dennis Lee, and he does go around the country promoting the idea of his various technologies.
I have not investigated them personally, so I don't wish to comment on them.
I am a bit unhappy with what I've heard so far, but I'm willing to give him at least some breathing room.
I mean, if he has a device that we can test at our new energy research labs here in Bow, I'd be delighted to receive it, and I would be delighted to write up a report for anyone uh... to see that says this device which he claims are
going to be installed in you know millions of homes israel okay let's get tested uh...
but i've heard of the negative that i have heard about this week
is that he promises things and doesn't deliver them when he says he's going to
so i'm i'm willing to cut him some slack but i have not been happy so far
That's about all I can say.
Oh, that's good.
You mentioned Boe, and people are sort of wondering what that is.
Boe is a town in New Hampshire, right near the capital, Concord.
The live free or die state.
Okay, that's your laboratory.
We have a publishing office in the town of Boe, which is right near the capital, and we also have a new energy research lab, where we do test devices, cold fusion and otherwise, And we try to come to conclusions as to whether they are real, producing excess energy, not producing excess energy, having increased efficiency, etc.
We have found some devices, to our dismay, that we were originally very enthusiastic about, and then published data suggesting that they were not as good as we had thought, or not anything.
So, you know, we try our very best to maintain integrity. I mean that's what we stand for. If
you don't have integrity intellectually, then you have nothing.
Doctor, what is the end product of what you're trying to do?
And I mean it in this sense.
You say that yes, it's a technology whose time hasn't yet come.
Well, no, the time has come.
But it's not, well, it isn't to perfection yet.
No, it's come in the sense that, okay, the transistor was announced in 1947 at Bell Labs, and then there were some years of development and all kinds of problems producing it and using it and so forth.
It's at the state of the early development of the transistor, except we have a war against the transistor.
Okay?
We have a war against cold fusion.
By people making fun of it.
So that clearly gets in the way of open-minded consideration, discussion at scientific meetings, and so forth.
For example, we have a meeting scheduled, and fortunately it's been rescheduled, called Conference on Future Energy.
And this meeting will be held at the Holiday Inn in Bethesda, Maryland on April 28th, 29th, and May 1st.
But it was originally going to be at the State Department, the U.S.
State Department, and then a bigoted scientist there found out about this meeting that someone else had arranged, and he managed to get it kicked out.
It was just to be an open-minded discussion of some of these technologies.
The State Department was not ratifying the technologies, but they could not have this in the house of the sacred bigoted physicist, and he is now going to be investigated, thankfully, By those who did not appreciate the fact that he pulled strings to have a scientific meeting moved.
I don't know how we got on that topic.
Well, yeah, I'm wondering whether you're going to get sued here.
No, it's on record.
No, your comments, your colorful comments, I think, could get you in trouble.
But I will say to you... He has colorful comments to us, so we're in for a tap.
I'm only saying to you that anybody with a closed mind that says, no, we can't discuss it, that's ridiculous.
But what I was ultimately trying to get at is, you've named all these various commercial companies that are trying to perfect this.
I realize you're the publisher of the magazine, but you've got your own lab.
Are you in the race?
Are you trying to get something going?
I'll tell you what we aspire to do.
We aspire to tell the truth about coal fusion and make coal fusion happen.
We are not the original inventors of the Cold Fusion process.
We try to examine things, and we are all for what we would call demonstration devices.
Indeed, when we have our hands on very reliable demonstrations that can be sold to the public as illustrations of the Cold Fusion or related processes, we will do that.
In fact, we do sell one such unit now, but we only offer it in terms of a research Technology it's it's called a plasma electrolysis device that produces some very interesting anomalous effects We believe and we do sell that for research purposes when we see a cell that will produce reliably excess energy that we can guarantee Okay, then we will sell that and we do believe that we are approaching within let's say six months or so or perhaps less and
Heavy water.
Can I go to the drugstore and buy some?
Not the drugstore, but a chemical supply house will easily provide you with heavy water.
Heavy water is part of all water.
It's very abundant on Earth.
All right.
Let's go to Gene in Seattle.
academicians they will see it for themselves and act accordingly
uh... heavy water can i go to the drugstore and buy some dot the drugstore but a chemical supply house will easily
provide you with heavy water
heavy water is part of all water it's a very abundant on earth
let's go to gene in seattle morning gene Are you there, Jean?
Okay.
Well, we'll just have to go elsewhere, then, and go to Joanne in Sarasota, Florida.
Good morning, Joanne.
Hi, Dr. Mello.
I find this most interesting.
I used to work for the Arabian American Oil Company.
You know who they are.
And I used to listen to the Tesla Society when they were on the radio, and I have two questions.
All right.
Wasn't there a man that ran a car on water?
I thought I heard him on that program, and the second question is, didn't the Caterpillar Company buy a patent on this?
Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
First of all, no one to my knowledge has run a car on water, alright?
By the way, cars can be propelled by hydrogen gas, ordinary hydrogen gas, obviously, combust Okay, and produces water.
You combine hydrogen with oxygen, you burn it, and it becomes water.
So it is possible to break down water and get the hydrogen out of it and run a car on hydrogen.
If that is what you mean by running a car on water, that has definitely been done.
But it takes more energy to produce that hydrogen than the hydrogen will give you back.
So you have to make that hydrogen, the power of the car, by something else.
There was a man by the name of Stanley Meyer, And I did visit his lab some years ago.
He had a dune buggy, which he claimed worked, that is, was powered by water.
But my own assessment of Meyer was, and he now is dead, is that he was a very paranoid individual, and he did not have what he said he had.
But frankly, it is impossible to tell whether he had what he said he had.
He was acting in such a strange way.
But may he rest in peace, nonetheless.
So we don't have water-powered cars yet.
But we will.
Let me tell you what Dr. Randall Mills said in Issue 17 of Infinite Energy Magazine, a lengthy interview.
He's with Blacklight Power Corporation.
He doesn't believe the mainstream explanation of coal fusion.
But he said, according to his theory of how it works, one tank of water, that is 20 gallons, let's say, in a car, Would run that car, 200 horsepower engine car, would run that car 100,000 miles, according to his estimate of how much energy is in water.
Now that's a lot, okay?
Cold fusion scientists, who are more mainstream, would say that a single gallon of heavy water, extracted from water, would run a car 55 million miles.
But between $55 million and $100,000, I could care less.
The energy is free, and that's all that matters when it's developed.
Okay.
You had another question, Joanna?
Oh, yeah.
The Caterpillar Company.
I heard this.
I thought... Let me address the Caterpillar thing.
A man by the name of Winterman in the state of Nevada has a fuel called A-55.
It is literally 55% water.
And the 45% is other fossil fuel, like naphtha or diesel oil, what have you.
And he can make a milky white solution of this water that can be burned.
So there is, in effect, a fuel that is largely water that can be burned.
But it doesn't, to my understanding, from colleagues that I talk to at a company in Cambridge called Quantum Energy Technologies, An ex-MIT professor, Keith Johnson, who was in that company, is working on technologies like that that may be superior.
Okay, we are having to move along here, so we'll come back and take more calls and get an explanation of heavy water.
I'm sorry, cold fusion.
We might say heavy water.
From Dr. Eugene Malov in just a moment, sitting in for Art Bell, I am Hilly Rose.
Telly Rose in for Art Bell, my guest tonight is Dr. Eugene Malove.
And doctor, you do such a good job in telling these stories, I just wondered if you could
give me a Reader's Digest version of how Cold Fusion works.
Well, if I could tell you exactly how it works, I'd be on my way to Stockholm to win a Nobel
Prize.
We don't really know how it works, but we can give you some idea, okay, of how people
We know that it works, okay?
And by the way, there are many things that work that we don't understand.
Even modern physics, which knows that high-temperature superconductivity works.
No one is disputing that.
It is highly reproducible.
They're still debating how that works.
Okay?
So, cold fusion relates to processes that happen when you have hydrogen In contact with metal.
And what happens there might be something like this.
In the case where helium is produced, okay, something happens to allow nuclear fusion of the heavy hydrogens, heavy hydrogen nuclei, to form this helium.
But it comes out as helium, not as deadly radiation or highly Energetic particles that would kill you.
It comes out in a benign way.
You might say it's a solid state fusion reaction.
That's one of the ways that we think cold fusion works.
The other way is by changes to the very atoms of the metal, such as what we would call transmutation, which sounds an awful lot like alchemy.
And in fact, it is a bit like modern alchemy.
We have now seen in the metals of some cold fusion cells Such as the palladium, the nickel, the gold, what have you.
We have seen new elements appear that look like other elements inside the metal are splitting, fissioning.
You might call it cold fission in a way.
Other people like Mills and Dr. Keith Johnson, formerly of MIT, have other theories to explain cold fusion, which have to do with exotic effects occurring in the electrons of these
uh... atoms in the metal we regret we really uh...
are paid in the in the in the ocean just waiting into this cosmic ocean and
trying to figure out what this is we know it's real and we know that it occurs in a variety of systems
and it is very powerful that's the key point is not
ordinary chemical
combustion I'm confused here.
I keep hearing you talk about the metal, but you haven't said anything about water.
Ah, well, okay.
The hydrogen in water.
Okay, to simplify it really to its most basic essence.
The hydrogen in water.
Water is H2O.
Two hydrogens, one oxygen.
Alright?
Or if it's heavy hydrogen, it's, you know, two heavy hydrogens plus oxygen.
D2O.
That hydrogen is the fuel, so to speak, we believe, of the cold fusion reaction.
But it's not the kind of reaction that you get by just burning the hydrogen, because that's a very weak reaction.
Sure, it powers the space shuttle, but it wouldn't power the space shuttle to the nearest stars.
Okay, what we're talking about in cold fusion is a reaction that is thousands to millions of times more powerful than ordinary chemical energy.
That's what we're talking about.
Something immensely powerful, still of unknown explanation, but of characteristics already reported in the literature that shows that this hydrogen is undergoing some kind of new reaction previously unknown to modern science.
That is very, very important.
I was reading in the May 1998 Journal of Physical Chemistry, B, about graphite nanofibers that
had a great affinity for hydrogen.
This was on the Learning Channel and this was developed by Terry Baker of Northeastern
University.
I can't help but wonder if something like that could be used to make a cheater fuel
cell.
You could actually perhaps make a feedback loop as it produced the water, it also produced
electricity.
The hotter it gets, the hotter it gets.
And besides the fuel cell, that would also be very great for spacecraft with that immense affinity to hydrogen.
From what I understand, oxygen is too long for the ride in water.
If you could have a container that could hold a vast amount of just hydrogen by itself, because from what I understand, this small container, it can hold more than just an empty one by itself could, and it doesn't have to have the super low temperatures that often times hydrogen has to have, but it does require high pressure and all you have to do is release it.
Okay, well you put in, my good friend, you put in a lot of thoughts here.
And I just want to say that what you're talking about is an interesting effect that I've heard about, but it appears to me that you're talking still about conventional chemical energy, even though stored in a very unusual way in small carbon tubes or something that are nanotubes.
but uh... i can't emphasize this point about about the difference between
chemical energy and
nuclear like energy on the point was it might be a good repository and might
help cold fusion re-authored perhaps in different ways and he
was question if i might be a different individual who wrote the star flight
handbook i did yes indeed
well that the author of the star flight handbook i confess and that is a there's a nice piece of work now i hope that
you were a release of a uh...
perhaps a future updated version on this.
Absolutely.
And to me the idea of a vast source of power that could help take us to the stars is something that I just find amazing.
But do see if you can't look up, I forgot what week, I think it was a weekly edition, it was the May 1998 Journal of Physical Chemistry B, and something like that.
Well, my friend, I'm out of time here.
Thank you for the call.
All right.
I was just thinking, Dr. Malove, somebody said to me that no scientist can really explain electricity.
Is that right?
Well, no.
If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.
What our understanding of electricity is simply this.
In wires, for example.
In 30 seconds.
It's just electrons flowing in a wire, and they're flowing because Something such as a battery or a generator is producing the flow of electrons in wires.
What electrons are, though, is a matter of contention.
All right, Dr. Eugene Malov, my guest.
We'll learn a few more things in the next hour we never knew before.
I am Hilly Rose, sitting in for Art Bell on Coast to Coast.
I went and I lit up my last cigarette.
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only I will die.
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This is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell, on the Premier Radio Networks.
Here he goes in for Art.
My guest is Dr. Eugene Mallob.
to the radio.
Tomorrow night on the program, we'll be talking about feng shui.
That's the way it's pronounced, I'm not sure.
With Richard Webster, who has written seven books on the subject.
So, lots to talk about.
Something that definitely could change your life.
As cold fusion could change your life, if They just get it to a point where it's commercially viable.
That's probably a point I've been meaning to ask you, Dr. Malov.
And by the way, I should tell people that Dr. Malov is the editor-in-chief and publisher of the Infinite Energy magazine.
Absolutely.
You see, we have to adopt a new idea.
in new hampshire and a lot of other good things but uh...
the uh... the question here and and it's a quick look at my mind
uh... only a good commercially viable at that point when when they do this
can it really be commercially viable absolutely you see
and we have to adapt adopt a new idea you see currently the idea
of energy in our civilization
is that you pay for it okay
you go to the gasoline station and you put in your car you pay for it
You have a meter on your house metering electricity, or metering natural gas coming in, or you pay the oil delivery truck, whatever, or you buy wood.
Now, in the Cold Fusion Age, Cold Fusion New Energy Age, You're going to pay for the devices that produce the energy.
You're not going to have free devices, okay?
The devices that they install in your home, that you will buy from Sears or Kmart or Walmart or any place, are going to cost some money.
I wouldn't expect them, by the way, to cost a lot of money, any more than, let's say, a normal oil burner.
Replace the oil burner for a few thousand dollars, put your coal fusion or new energy apparatus in, and you are detached from continual payments of oil.
Now, there might be certain elements in there, certain catalysts, certain other things that might need to be replaced, but the basic fuel charge, so to speak, would essentially be zero.
I mean, if we're talking about water, or even heavy water, the power, the ability of that fuel, so to speak, to Produce energy is so immense that for all practical purposes, it's zero cost.
So it's not comparable, but it's sort of like a water softener in your home.
Once you buy it, there it is.
That's it.
Well, power, for example.
Solar power is a perfect paradigm for that.
You put solar cells on your roof, they generate electricity, right?
And you've paid for them once, you're not continuing to pay for the sun's rays, okay?
Now, the disadvantage of solar power is you have to have large arrays.
The sun doesn't shine all the time.
Yes, you can store the energy up.
There are cloudy days, there are snowy days, etc., etc.
Cold fusion will be oblivious to cloudy days, nighttime, whatsoever.
And they will also be small, so you will be able to have a cold fusion powered car.
It is very difficult to have a solar powered car, although they have been built.
They are very light and flimsy.
Well, somebody's going to have to figure a way to make money on this.
Oh, they will.
They're probably going to have you go to the drugstore to buy the heavy water for them.
Oh, well, the government, I'm convinced, will, you know, they have a fuel tax now, right?
Yep.
So when the coal fusion age breaks out, as I expect it to, they will find a way to tax the energy use.
I hope we prevent them from doing that, and I suspect we will.
A more libertarian Age, which I also hope will break out.
We will have no government payments for taxes on our energy use, but they will try to find a way to tax it, believe me.
Yeah, it's got to be.
Of course, this will now do away with energy lines and all this other visual pollution.
Visual pollution of power lines all over the place.
We're not polluting the skies as we're doing now.
That's right.
uh... by the way in the northeast here and in canada and so forth we have these
these ice storms we do have very significant outages
and that will be eliminated when central power stations are a thing of the past and
they will be and we're not polluting the skies as we're doing now that's
right call of the carbon monocle carbon dioxide pollution
offline particles pollution from the burning of coal and oil all this will be
a thing of the past and people will look back on this much as we go look upon the horse and buggy age with
somewhat uh...
amazement that they're actually cities clogged with
with uh...
horses putting manure all over the place And this will, as I say, be a bygone era.
Do you think that there's going to be an improvement in the ozone hole?
You know, I'm not an expert on the ozone hole.
I've heard a lot of negative comment about that theory of the ozone hole.
That is all the... It is not all that it's cracked up to be.
There are some disputes about exactly what is causing the ozone.
In my view, it's Mother Nature, but you go ahead.
Whatever it is.
You know, any chemicals, you know, we actually might... Here's the opposite side of the coin.
We currently do produce carbon dioxide in our industrial civilization.
We are adding to the natural carbon dioxide background, which those who fear that the sky is falling say is heating and warming the Earth excessively, and we have global warming.
But you know, there are cycles having to do with other things, as far as the Earth's orbit and so forth, that periodically bring about ice ages.
And there might come a time when we will wish to have more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere to stave off an ice age.
So, if we have unlimited energy, we certainly can produce as much carbon dioxide as we want and stave off an ice age.
That's a pretty good reason for doing this.
All right, Dr. Eugene Malov is the guest, and we'll take more of your calls right after these amazing words.
I'm Nellie Rose, in for Art Bell on Coast to Coast Day.
Call Art Bell on the first time caller line at 1-775-727-1222.
That's 1-775-727-1222.
That's 1-775-727-1222.
I wonder if I might ask the doctor, Dr. Malaroff, I've been following Code Fusion for a while.
Code Fusion, I'm sorry.
And I visited your website last night.
Bob is in Detroit.
Good morning, Bob.
Hi.
I wonder if I might ask the doctor, Dr. Meloff.
I've been following Code Fusion for a while.
Code Fusion.
Code Fusion, I'm sorry.
And I visited your website last night.
I saw that you were going to be a scheduled guest.
And my question for you is this.
Can you possibly give an idea where the average person might be able to obtain some of the materials required for these experiments, such as the platinum, the palladium, and the nickel, and so forth?
And maybe if you could describe a basic apparatus.
I saw that calcium carbonate was an electrolyte.
Well, potassium carbonate is one of them.
Let me make it very simple, Bill.
We don't want to turn this into an amateur scientist hour, but, you know, certainly Infinite Energy Magazine publishes a lot of those nearly hands-on, do-it-yourself sort of things.
Right.
But, you know, let's talk about what we call light water cells.
In other words, a cell that does not use heavy water, so you don't have to buy the heavy water.
Heavy water is not incredibly expensive.
A kilogram of it, a liter, will be about, say, $350, $400.
Okay, but you can do a lot of cold fusion experiments with that.
But you'd rather use just ordinary water, very clean water, distilled water, and you put in this electrolyte called potassium carbonate.
It's just a chemical, a simple chemical that can be purchased from a chemical supply house.
What's another electrolyte?
Well, it's lithium sulfate.
Etcetera.
You know, we don't want to get too technical, as I say, but all you do is you pass a direct current between the anode with DC, which is the positive electrode, and the cathode, the negative one, which will be nickel, let's say.
But, you know, you cannot... The point of a cold fusion experiment is to find out if there's excess heat there.
This method of measuring the excess heat is the key thing to do.
And not to make mistakes as far as the various mistakes that can be made in evaluating the heat of the cell.
So this is not a trivial experiment.
It will become trivial and eventually there will be cathodes supplied by supply houses that will, upon immersion in water, Uh, and potassium carbonate will produce the excess heat effect and any amateur scientist will be able to do it.
Where can you get palladium?
Where can you get palladium is the question?
Oh, there are various supply houses.
You know, you can look up in any scientific magazine or website and say, you know, chemicals.
Okay.
You can buy palladium.
You can buy, of course, it's a precious metal.
It is expensive.
Nickel is much cheaper.
You can buy potassium carbonate.
You can buy heavy water.
There are vendors all over the place.
The materials for cold fusion, that is the basic materials, are not rare and hard to find.
Okay, let's move along here to Greg in Rhinelander, Wisconsin.
Good morning, Greg.
Hi, great show today.
Anyway, I just have a question.
I've heard stories that possibly Hitler Was experimenting with Cold Fusion back during World War II?
I was wondering if that was a myth or is there some truth to that?
Don't know about that at all.
Apologize.
That is one story I have not heard.
But there is a very definite historical precedent for Cold Fusion.
In 1926, two scientists by the name of Panneth and Peters conducted experiments Which appeared to do something like cold fusion and produce helium.
But those experiments, they rejected their own data.
Then a gentleman by the name of Tandberg in Sweden got the idea much closer to Ponson-Fleischmann for that age and was doing some experiments.
But there was really nothing, as far as I know, Prior to the Pons Fleischmann announcement in 1989, and of course they were working on this themselves privately from about 1985 onward, there wasn't really anything like what we've had since 1989, where the phenomenon really has been validated, difficult as it has been at times to get full reproducibility.
We now are in an age where there are plenty of Technical papers published on this in both peer-reviewed and non-peer-reviewed journals, so that we know the phenomenon is real.
Okay, thank you much.
Dr. Malove, it occurs to me that if this thing becomes viable, that we could go clear out to the end of our universe.
Well, let's be clear on something.
When I wrote the Starflight Handbook back in 1989, it's a John Wiley book, I and Greg Matloff, who is another engineer, we speculated about the various propulsion systems that would take us to the stars.
At the time, it was just the beginning of the cold fusion age, we didn't really talk about it in that book.
But you see, to go to the stars, you need some kind of propulsion system.
Your rocket.
If you are using a rocket, you need fuel.
And you need also, we believe, something to eject out of the back of the rocket, some mass.
So even if you have a very high energy fuel, that is, energy source, like cold fusion, you still would need, to power a rocket, you would need propellant that shoots out the back of the rocket at high speed.
And so rockets are limited.
It is true, however, that cold fusion devices will radically alter space flight.
At least in our solar system.
But as far as getting us to the stars, even cold fusion is not particularly powerful enough to do what we really want to do, and there are other systems that I can imagine that would be better than cold fusion.
But let's not get into an interstellar flight discussion.
Okay.
Well, then let's take a brief pause here at the bottom of the hour, and we will come back and take more of your phone calls for Dr. Eugene Malove, talking about cold fusion.
Richard Webster on Feng Shui.
I am Hilly Rose, hitting in for Art Bell on Coast to Coast AM.
the all over the world
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the the
the international callers may reach our bill in the kingdom of
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Then, 800 That's 800-893-0903.
That's 800-893-0903.
Now, here again is Art Bell.
Hello, sitting in, my guest in this hour is Dr. Eugene Malov, editor-in-chief of the magazine Infinite Energy, and also he has written any number of books on this area of cold fusion.
Before we go back to calls, Doctor, I just wondered, one time you say that there are an awful lot of scientists here in the United States, and around the world for that matter, who are members of the Flat Earth Society.
Yes.
And I sort of wondered, now you tell us that we're right on the brink of making this thing work.
Has the number of the people in the Flat Earth Society, are they growing?
Are they diminishing?
Are they staying the same?
In other words, I realize it's very tough and they have interests to protect themselves, but do you see any change in the scientific community?
In a way, yes.
I think what's happening, first of all, a lot of scientists coming and seeing Infinite Energy Magazine and other publications relating to coal fusion and seeing news about coal fusion and radio programs, TV programs, videos, movies, what have you.
There's a general growing awareness in the part of the open-minded fraction of the scientific culture that there is something here.
However, I would say that the people who've been critics, who were closed-minded almost from day one, they're getting rather louder in a way.
They are, in a sense, seeing things that they don't like.
They are seeing the fact that it is not going away.
They predicted that it would die.
They predicted that The scientists working on it would find that they were making terrible mistakes.
Well, the scientists have not found that they were making terrible mistakes.
Even though these antagonists of Cold Fusion believe they're making mistakes, these scientists have checked themselves very carefully and are finding very important new things.
And this very much upsets them, and so they get nastier, I think, as time goes on.
Well, it's always the case, isn't it, when you're... Well, if you're a member of the Flat Earth Society, you want the Earth to stay flat, right?
Yep.
Are you trying to tell us, Doctor, that it's round?
Is that what you're trying to say?
Yeah, the world is round.
No, how disappointing.
I have other people on the program who have said that the elite knew about this, and they sent Columbus off, even so, just to find his route to the West Indies, but he knew when he went out that the world was not flat.
By the way, that is my colleague Jed Rothwell, who is a contributing editor to our magazine, has written something about that.
It is not often realized that actually the elite of the time of Columbus, it was fairly common knowledge that the Earth was round.
Okay?
Unlike what we've been told in school, that, oh, they thought it was flat.
Well, a lot of people might have thought it was flat, but the elite, from Greek times onward, due to various astronomical observations and so forth, I don't believe the world was round.
They didn't know how big it was, exactly.
Some suspected it.
But there get to be all these historical myths, and so we just accept them as commonplace.
We have to be a little careful on that.
For another thing, you know, the Wright Brothers, mentioned earlier in the program, comparing it to Cold Fusion and how they were denied for years.
Most people are taught in school, oh, the Wright Brothers flew in 1903, and one then has the impression there was a big party for them.
And they were given a ticker tape parade in Wall Street.
Far from it.
For five years, as we mentioned, they were not recognized.
But these very important historical facts about what happened as near as a hundred years ago are completely obscured.
I tell you, you can't believe anybody, can you?
You can't believe your teachers.
Well, please believe me, though, at least.
I normally don't push the guests, but you know, you don't get very commercial here, and I am very excited about your new videotape called Fire from Water.
Just give us the web address here, and we'll move on.
Okay.
It's www.infinite-energy.com.
And if you really want to understand this subject, and understand all of the conflict that is going on, They've been very, very upfront and honest about it in this production.
I must mention another movie that's about to come out that I worked on a little bit with Professor Keith Johnson of MIT.
He's no longer at MIT, but he's involved in the coal fusion field.
Professor Johnson of MIT has produced a movie called Breaking Symmetry.
Now, this is not a scientific documentary the way coal fusion fire from water is, but On May 26th, in Cambridge, at the Cambridge Marriott Hotel, for anyone who wants to be there in the evening, both Keith Johnson's movie, Breaking Symmetry, which is a fictional account that touches closely on the reality of what happened at MIE, that will be shown in the Marriott Hotel Ballroom, and Cold Fusion Fire From Water will be shown.
The combination of these two films together will be quite powerful, I expect.
By the way, speaking of films, you were the technical advisor on The Saint.
Yes.
The one starring Val Kilmer?
Yep.
And that is all about cold fusion, too, isn't it?
Yes, it is.
But, of course, what's portrayed in The Saint is that there is this process called cold fusion, which some professor, Elizabeth Shue, Uh, character in the movie.
She, uh, has it and this theft and counter-theft and all this other business going on.
But it presents it as a fiction.
Of course, it was a fiction.
The story line was a fiction.
But the reality is that it was handled technically well, thanks to the fact that even though the scriptwriters did a great job on the film, there were some errors and I was allowed to be the technical advisor to I'd like to make an announcement.
ripped in and so i would probably that some of the very lines
elizabeth shu ordered in the movie about fifty five million miles
uh...
on a gallon of heavy water these are directly from from uh... from our input
are such a certain uh...
uh... new brownfield is a texas and you brought the whole month of the kit
you know i'd like to make an announcement that it's not about cold
fusion but we're talking here about free energy.
I want to tell you of the discovery that I've made.
You have made a discovery?
I have designed, with a new science, a torque generator.
Okay.
All the work that we do on this earth, or universe, all the work is done by the torque.
Yes.
Energy does not have to enter into our work equation.
My good friend, could you tell me Very simple.
Let's not get into equations and theories.
Just tell me, if you will, in a very simple sentence or two, what the device is that you have.
What does it do?
What is its input, and what is its output?
Well, there's no input, and there can be an input.
There's a thousand ways in building... Have you built it?
Yes, I built it and I've got it to demonstrate.
Well, come up here to Bow, New Hampshire to New Energy Research Labs.
Whatever it is you have, we will test it.
I cannot do that.
Why not?
I'm 81 years old.
You sound like you're 25.
I've had two heart attacks in the past four months.
I've got emphysema of only 16% of my lungs.
Okay, well, let's just indicate here that if you want to contact Dr. Malov, you send him some email or phone, and the phone number is 603-228-4516.
I'd be glad to try to help you out.
Okay, thank you.
It's amazing to me.
How many people think they have discovered the ultimate whatever?
And they may have.
That's probably where we all get into trouble, is we discount things.
And what you have said makes a lot of sense, and that is... We just want to test something.
Yeah.
Test it.
Show me.
Right.
That's all.
And you're not even from the show me state.
I'll tell you.
Right.
Okay.
We will go to... Tell me.
Tell me, tell me, tell me.
Oh, okay.
We'll go to Adam in Hartford, Connecticut.
Hi, Adam.
Good morning.
Good morning, Haley.
This is Adam from Hartford.
I have a question to Dr. Eugene.
I mean, this cold fusion commercially would bring a revolution to the whole world.
It will.
That's correct.
And, you know, energy itself would be a pollution.
Energy itself would be pollution?
Yes.
Well, uh... Because if I had a lake, for instance, I lived on a lake, I would have all the energy of the fossil fuel in the world, for instance.
That's right, you would.
And, you know... That's right.
You are absolutely correct, Adam.
Things that would, in the past, have been absolutely impossible, will become possible.
Much as, with the Internet today, and telephones and so forth, We can do things today that were absolutely unthinkable, not to mention 100 years ago, even 20 years ago.
We can stay, I am now in contact, but with my little laptop computer that I can take anywhere I want, with hundreds of people, thousands of people, okay?
This is an impossibility by previous technologies.
Similarly, when we have cold fusion power, Okay, we're going to be able to do things that couldn't be done before.
For example, you could have, if you had a coal-fusion powered airplane, as an example, and it were just producing tremendous heat and thrust in jet engines, but there was no consumption of fuel, that airplane could stay aloft almost indefinitely.
Right?
So you could have platforms flying around virtual little countries, flying all over the planet, Without, with, as far as the fuel goes, no need to refuel.
Yes, but this would bring a revolution.
It would.
Just like the internet, you mentioned.
That's correct.
I mean, moral repercussions.
Yes.
A whole set, a whole... But isn't that great?
Don't you want progress here?
That's the important thing.
All right, Doctor, we're going to take a brief pause, as we do in radio, and we'll come back and take more questions for you.
Dr. Eugene Malove is my guest.
This is Hilly Rose, sitting in for Art Bell on Coast to Coast AM.
Hilly Rose in for Art Bell, Dr. Eugene Malove is my guest, and Brian is in Virginia, Minnesota.
Is that right, Brian?
Yes, it is.
Where in Virginia?
Northern Minnesota, north of Duluth.
We're up toward the Canadian border.
Go ahead, you're on the air.
I've got this Associated Press article, January 26, 1997, from Avon, Minnesota, the dateline is.
from Avon, Minnesota, the dateline is. And it reads, an 88-year-old retired entrepreneur
received notice that his brainchild, a high-efficiency hydraulic engine that would require no liquid
fuel to operate, has a patent pending.
The notice is from the U.S.
Patent and Trademark Office?
Yes.
And I'm wondering if Mr. Maloz's magazine has done any study on that?
I don't know of it, but if you'll kindly send me, fax me, send me, what have you, Hello, Hilly.
How are you?
I will look into it and I will get back to you on that.
Dr. Mayoff, I have two things.
One other one that you had the opportunity to deal with.
At the time that I was reading your book, I was reading William's biography of Faraday.
He was an electrochemist and he had a great deal of work that he did with electrolysis
and he also had the same problem with the electrodes not working properly and he was
using a 110% solution of water and sulfuric acid.
Specific gravity was 110%.
What he was able to do, he found that the electrodes, when they formed large bubbles, would not work.
What he was able to do with this was reverse the polarity until the electrodes formed tiny bubbles, film-like, over the surface.
Then his units would work fine.
He worked them consistently.
And even had them do a runaway after he disconnected the power source.
When you say a runaway, what kind of runaway?
Runaway that they would go to ignition.
Ignition?
Ignition, yes.
I don't know what you're talking about.
What would they ignite?
That's what I wanted to ask you, is what they would ignite and how you would control a situation like that.
Well, I'm not clear exactly what you're discussing.
I know Michael Faraday was definitely one of the fathers of electrochemistry, and he... I'm not familiar with all his writings, of course.
I'm not a student of his study of the history of his developments.
Very prominent scientist, very open-minded scientist, who, by the way, had no academic credentials.
But the... I don't know what you're describing here.
I presume You're talking about the breakdown of water to produce hydrogen and oxygen, among other things.
But this business of ignition or runaway is unclear to me.
Again, if you have specific information about something that he observed that was like a runaway, whatever that runaway is, I'd like to be sent that information.
Okay, let's move along here and talk to Diane, who's in College Station, Texas.
Good morning, Diane.
Hello, how are you?
Well, Dr. Malov knows where I'm coming from, so he might not know what I'm going to talk about, but I'm sure he can tell who I'm going to talk about.
Are you going to talk about the famous professor?
Dr. Bakris.
I work for Dr. Bakris.
I'm an assistant of his.
You're an assistant.
Great.
Yes.
So he's a great man.
I hope you think he's a great man.
Oh, he's a great man.
He just had bypass surgery for the second time and has come through wonderfully.
I didn't know that.
He's back working again.
Oh my God, I didn't know he was having bypass surgery.
He's actually one of 50 people who's actually had it done twice.
I just want to bring up the fact that he was involved with ColdFusion early on, if you know.
He still is.
He was almost destroyed because of it.
And wait, Diane, how was he destroyed?
Well, what happened was he announced, his announcement of, he had a grad student who was working on this similarly, and their announcement on their cold fusion results came directly after the Utah announcement.
That's right.
And there was an entire, over 30 members of the Texas A&M Chemistry Department wrote a letter to the President asking him basically to be removed.
That's correct.
Because he was doing, quote, you know, voodoo science.
Right.
I've already started calling him an alchemist.
They tried to embarrass him.
I mean, not only in the letters to the local paper, but in the letters to the university paper.
And he really spent two years just trying to stay afloat.
I mean, his legal costs were enormous.
I'm very familiar with that, and by the way, that part is obviously not the full story, but a significant portion of cold fusion fire from water goes into Bacchus's difficulties with the university, and of course he triumphed in the end.
He was fully absolved.
But of course, the people there at Texas A&M in the chemistry department and elsewhere who did not want this new science being experimented with, the Flat Earth Society people, These people still are unrepentant.
I've talked to some of them.
I've interviewed them.
I have their precious words on tape, and we will eventually publish the full record of this.
I was going to ask you just if you can envision a time when he would be publicly exonerated.
You know, sometimes the people who lose a scientific war never really admit That they were wrong.
They will claim in the future that they knew it all along, and they will try to marginalize and devalue the contributions of those who were in the field all along, such as Professor Bokris.
Professor John Bokris is one of the greatest electrochemists in the world, and he happens to be, in my estimation, one of the greatest scientists.
You know, he stood up for measurements that showed anomalous behavior, namely The tritium, which is a signature of cold fusion, one of the early signatures that was clearly an indication, this is a form of hydrogen that was clearly present, and Gary Taubes, the so-called science journalist who claimed that this was fraud, okay, or that it was not fraud by Bacchus, but adulteration of experiments by an ambitious graduate student?
Yeah.
This was one of the most outrageous claims And it continues to be repeated even though full exoneration occurred in the case of Bacchus and absolute impossibility of adulteration to produce the effects that we're seeing has now been proved.
But this propaganda that was launched in 1990 still continues like a bad odor and continues to be mentioned By journalists and others who feel that they want to beat up on Cold Fusion.
Well, it's a terrible thing.
You know, the one slight that they continue to give him, which I find reprehensible, is the fact that, you know, he was a distinguished professor.
Okay, I'm running out of time here, Diane.
I've got ten seconds.
Okay, is that they will not give him the Preferred Elementor Emeritus title.
Well, he can live without that.
Okay, thank you.
And, uh, unfortunately, I can't live without the station breaks here, so, uh, Dr. Manilow, we'll come back and do the final hour in, oh, just a few minutes here.
In for Art Bell on Coast to Coast AM, I am Billy Rose.
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Gonna stand up...
In for Art Bell on Coast to Coast AM, I am Billy Rose.
And I'll keep this world from dragging me down.
Gonna stand up...
Standing away from the crust, I'll go away, just like magic.
you Oh, rollin' and ridin' and flippin' and glidin' It's magic And you, and the things I find You just need to go Higher and higher, baby
The Wild Card Line to the Kingdom of Nigh is open at 1-775-727-1295.
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This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
is open at 1-775-727-1295. That's 1-775-727-1295. This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on
the Premier Radio Networks.
Well, we're sitting in, and my guest is Dr. Eugene F. Malov, editor-in-chief of Infinite
Energy magazine. We're talking about cold fusion.
And, Doctor, maybe I'm naive here, or maybe there's something I don't understand.
Twice it has come up in the program about being alchemists, and what's the problem with
turning lead into gold?
What I mean by that is, is there something wrong with being an alchemist?
Well, certainly there is in the Cold Fusion War.
In fact, the term alchemy has been used by the critics to disparage Cold Fusion.
Alchemy, as many of your listeners know, was the ancient science or mystical endeavor that tried to produce gold from base metals.
Using the Philosopher's Stone, there were other mystical qualities such as immortality and other things blended into alchemy.
There are many, many books written about alchemy.
But, interestingly, some of the great scientists that we ascribe to our classical era, like Isaac Newton and Robert Boyle and others, were alchemists themselves.
They dabbled or actually dealt with alchemy in a hands-on way, in a very, very big way.
Now, it is normally understood that the practice of alchemy, the attempt to make gold from lead and mercury, was something that led to chemistry.
That is, all that dabbling led to chemistry, but there was nothing to it.
There was no such production of gold from lead, and that may well be true in large quantities.
But in the cold fusion era, where we are fighting a scientific establishment, They use that term, alchemy, to challenge us.
Because, indeed, cold fusion scientists have found the transmutation of elements, not like batches of gold coming out of lead, but they have found changes in elements.
Why is this surprising?
It is surprising because, prior to cold fusion results, That it was impossible, without going to very high energies in stars or in accelerators, to change the identity of elements.
And so therefore, to say that one is transmuting, one is changing elements, and seeing new elements appear in very mild conditions, such as in cold fusion experiments, this is akin to alchemy.
But I would call it modern alchemy.
That's what it is.
It's just positive.
That was the point I was trying to make.
It is positive.
Well, they use it as a negative term because alchemy is supposed to be hogwash.
In other words, the ancient attempt to make gold out of lead was considered hogwash and a futile effort, whereas today they look at cold fusion experiments and say that too is hogwash.
Therefore, make the comparison with the ancient alchemists.
I think this is right on the point, is that these folks are living back in the Flat Earth Society days.
They are.
And they haven't moved on into... They don't dream.
If you say something can't happen, it's not going to happen.
That's right.
In any field.
And if you move ahead and somebody tells you you can't do it, well, my wife, if anybody ever tells her it can't be done, she's going to do it!
And that makes her succeed in a lot of ways.
No, that has made Cold Fusion people succeed in a lot of ways.
We were put down, and still are being put down, but we are confident of the results, and we know that it is a matter of time before they will be accepted by a new generation that will not be bound by the propaganda of these flat-earth people.
You know, when the Wegener, in the early part of the century, Speculated and measured results that told him that the continents had once been together.
And of course, that theory that the continents could drift back in 1912 and all the way up to the late 1950s, early 60s, was considered nonsense by the establishment of geophysics.
Because how could continents move?
Unthinkable and yet we now know that the continents are moving and we sort of know why they are moving there on
plates And it's called plate tectonics. So a whole new paradigm
had to be Invented before a major idea like continental drift was
accepted. Of course. I live in California We know that the earth moves all the time
Oh, of course it does move.
I have a fax here and I'm a big train buff.
My idea of having fun, I go to Europe and for three weeks I'll just ride every train I can find.
Wonderful.
But anyway, this guy wants to know how the heat generated from cold fusion could be used to propel locomotives.
Oh, easy.
Well, wait a minute.
If a turbine is used, will it be powered by superheated air or steam?
What a grand idea to see the rebirth of steam locomotives on the rails.
I'm all for that.
Not only will we have steam locomotives powered by cold fusion, okay, with no cold belching from the stacks or diesel oil, but we will also have Um, coal fusion powered steam cars.
You see, you can take the heat of coal fusion and use it in many ways.
You could make steam to drive turbines or reciprocating engines, and that would be that.
You know, that's basically one way.
Another way is to do it thermoelectrically.
In other words, convert the coal fusion heat in a high efficiency.
Most thermoelectric conversion is not high efficiency, but perhaps we could develop those or waste the heat.
Basically go directly to electricity from co-fusion reactions.
Many, many things could be done.
By the way, you're a train buff?
Excellent.
Oh, absolutely.
There's something that's in between trains and planes, and that is called maglev.
Right.
I've ridden them.
Well, they literally levitate above the track.
Magnetic fields.
And that's really, it's almost a misnomer to call maglev a train because it's actually more like an electromagnetic
plane well i've i've written them from uh... paris down to uh...
center pay i didn't know they had no other operation
Oh yeah, they do.
Are you thinking in terms of just a monorail, or was this really a maglev?
Well, I don't know what a real maglev is.
I know that's what they told me.
It levitates.
It levitates up off the rail, and as a result of that, there's no drag, and so they can make what is normally an eight-hour trip from Paris down to the Riviera, they can do it in four or five hours.
Amazing. Yeah, I know. And you know, this couldn't be done either, as a lot of people said.
But that's right. Somehow there it is. How progress is made.
Yeah. Don't you know, don't argue with me. It can't be done while you're riding on the trains.
Right. All right. Let's move along here and talk to Jeff in Portland.
Good morning, Jeff. Hi. First, I'd like to say that I work graveyard shift here at a gas station.
I'm on your show every night and you're doing a great job.
Thank you so much, Jeff.
And what I'm calling in for is to say, does your guest foresee, in my lifetime, seeing my job going the way of the blacksmith?
Yes, your job will go away, but you will have a better job.
Let me make an analogy here.
There aren't very many companies, maybe there aren't any, that are making mechanical typewriters any longer.
So the typewriter industry got destroyed by the personal computer and word processing.
We use other kinds of printers today and we do not need mechanical linkages or even electromechanical linkages for typewriters.
So there's a much larger industry now devoted, obviously, to personal computers.
Many more people type with personal computers than ever type before with mechanical typewriters.
Now, people who now pump gas will not be pumping gas anymore in the cold fusion age, when it's in full swing.
But what they will be doing, undoubtedly, if they want to still work at these stations, there will be comfort stations, and instead of having these highly flammable fuels that we pump into cars and
eventually kill people with when they collide with one another on the highway
even cold fusion cars will collide uh... we won't have these flames but the people at the
comfort stations such as you
will be having more space for food and comfort and showers and god knows what else
but i would say to you jeff don't don't quit your job because i think you'll be
there for a long time This isn't going to happen overnight.
Right.
All right.
Thank you.
And we're going to take another brief pause so we can hear from Art Bell.
And we will continue right here with Dr. Melo.
I am Art.
No, I'm not.
I'm Hilly Rose sitting in for Hartville.
I'm Hilly Rose.
Now, back to Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell.
Hello, sitting in, and let me remind you that the new issue of Fate Magazine just came out on the stands this week.
With a picture of Art Bell on the cover, and there is a story about Art Bell.
I haven't had a chance to read it yet, so I don't know what it says, but for all you dedicated Art Bell fans, there's another way to find out more about the man.
So be sure and pick up a copy.
Let's get back to our phone call.
We're talking to Dr. Eugene Malov, and we're talking about Cold Fusion.
Let's go to Cecil in Gainesville, Florida.
Good morning, Cecil.
How are you doing?
Um, Dr. Malove, I have a couple of questions for you that, um, they're both on the same topic, but kind of not really.
Okay.
Um, I guess my questions are basically, um, is there any way that they can incorporate this?
Well, actually, have they tested this theory in a zero gravity environment?
Uh, no.
Uh, it would be a good idea to do that because I believe, uh, I don't think that the cold fusion reactions would particularly Change very much in space, although liquids operate differently.
So if you have an electrochemical cell in space, you have to be concerned about how it was put together and the fluids floating and so forth.
But indeed, I do feel that space power systems, even should we get the, and as I hope we have our Freedom Space Station up there, it now is outfitted or will be outfitted with Well, you tend to think that cold fusion would be more of a logical choice anyways.
these panels will be removed and we will have simple cold fusion based electric generators
aboard such stations. Well you tend to think that cold fusion would be more of a logical
choice anyways. My second question is could cold fusion in any way be used as a weapon
of mass destruction? I don't think so but then again it is new physics, it is the way
is a...
There are nuclear reactions occurring.
We do not see evidence of runaway in any sense.
But on the other hand, what do we know?
We already have nuclear weapons galore on this planet, and nuclear weapons are not all that hard to develop for any country, as long as they can produce uranium-235 and Pure enough form, or plutonium.
We have plenty of other weapons that are very dangerous, so to speculate about what might be coming out of Cold Fusion, I think, even though we should do that, and we should be on guard, we have not seen anything yet in it that looks especially ominous.
Or maybe then the government would get involved.
Well, you know, there's a deep irony here.
There is one aspect of Cold Fusion.
That should interest the government as far as its weapon systems go.
And this shows how absurd the whole co-fusion war has been.
As I told you earlier, tritium, which is a radioactive form of hydrogen, okay?
It's very short-lived.
Half of it gets destroyed automatically by decay in twelve and a half years.
Now, this was detected early on in some co-fusion experiments.
It's not an especially dangerous compound.
It could be shielded against, and commercial coal fusion reactors would certainly not want to have it, and we would just eliminate it.
But, or shield it, or whatever.
But, in the early days, this was found, and it continues to be found in some coal fusion experiments, even at our Los Alamos National Laboratory.
Now, tritium happens to be one of the ingredients in thermonuclear weapons.
In other words, a thermonuclear hydrogen bomb ...is made by having a fission bomb go off and, you know, heat up to millions of degrees the fuel, which is tritium and heavy hydrogen.
Now, tritium is something that the U.S.
government needs, and it is willing to spend billions of dollars to recreate a tritium production facility, while at the same time completely ignoring the fact That tritium might be generated in specialized cold fusion apparatus in a much simpler and cheaper way.
This would not necessarily, by the way, give India or other countries a leap ahead in hydrogen bomb technology.
So I don't, again, I don't want to make a big deal about this, but it is true that that one fact of cold fusion has some military aspect to it.
Okay, thank you.
Dr. Malove, there is something of a need to ask you all evening and just didn't have a
chance to.
Okay.
The doctors who originally discovered cold fusion.
Arthur Fleischman.
Yeah.
You indicated to us earlier that Fleischman has, you know, gone to France, changed his
nationality.
No, no, Pons.
Okay.
What's happened to Fleishman?
Is he still here?
Fleishman is still very much a part of the field.
He is living in England, where he was from, and living in the same place where he's been all along.
And basically, he's totally confident of all the results that have been produced.
He's a jolly fellow.
He's got a very nice Human Outlook.
Pons is a person who took this with less humor.
He perhaps was a less secure man, although he's a dear friend.
He did feel very badly treated, and he was badly treated by the scientific establishment, and so both he and Dr. Fleischman went to Southern France, and they did work for a number of years under the Toyota affiliate called Imra.
And they did work successfully on various cold fusion experiments that were pushed and which show even more spectacular results.
So the short of it is that Pons is dejected, I think, and out of the field.
He doesn't really want to be communicated with, frankly.
Whereas Martin Fleischmann, He's still very much in the field, and he does attend meetings and so forth.
Didn't they originally put a lot of their own money into this development?
They did.
They spent about $100,000 U.S.
dollars of their own money in experiments that were conducted in Utah.
He was retired from the University of Southampton in England, and he would visit his colleague, Pons, at the University of Utah, and they would do these experiments.
These were done very quietly, and it only came out when they submitted a proposal to the Department of Energy, to a secret proposal, to continue this work.
And one of the Department of Energy reviewers gave this proposal to, I think somewhat unethically, to Dr. Stephen Jones at the Brigham Young University.
And that began a rivalry because Jones was working on something similar, and there got to be all kinds of complications that forced the press conference on March 23rd prematurely.
All right, sir.
We are coming into the last segment of the show, so please stick with me, and we will continue talking about cold fusion and what the future could really be like.
Sitting in for Art Bell, I am Hilly Rose on Coast to Coast AM.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
Coast to Coast AM.
Thank you.
you There are times when I would love to speak, but questions run too deep for such a sentimental man.
Oh, my dear, please tell me what I've learned.
I know it sounds absurd, but please tell me who The wildcard line to the Kingdom of Nigh is open at 1-775-727-1295.
That's 1-775-727-1295.
The Wild Card Line to the Kingdom of Nye is open at 1-775-727-1295.
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This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
Billy Rose sitting in for Art, and we're talking with Dr.
Eugene Malov, Editor-in-Chief and publisher of the bimonthly Infinite Energy magazine.
Dr. Malav, now that we're coming down to the end of this program and you've made these hours just fly by, you do a wonderful job of explaining this.
Is there anything that we haven't asked you, and certainly we've covered a lot of territory, but is there anything new in the field or anything important in the field of cold fusion that we haven't already covered?
The answer is no, that's fine.
Well, there are some things.
First of all, I'd like to highlight some upcoming events, if I may.
The new things, such as the conference on future energy, which will be occurring, as I said, at the Bethesda-Maryland Holiday Inn on April 28th through May 1st.
That's coming up.
It will allow people in the Washington area, or wherever they're coming from, To get more familiar with some of these new ideas in physics and energy.
Also, the production of the joint showing of these two wonderful films, the Cold Fusion Fire from Water and MIT Professor Keith Johnson's Breaking Symmetry at the Cambridge Marriott coming up on May 26th in the evening.
We invite people to come.
But as far as new technologies, you know, having cut my teeth on the original coal fusion claim, I never intended to sort of speak of become a coal fusion researcher.
It just happened that I did, because I was there at the right place at the right time, or the wrong place at the right time, whatever, at MIT.
My eyes have been opened in a much greater sense and I now see other developments that are related that I consider to be related to coal fusion.
We might want to discuss very briefly.
There are some aspects of water that are far more profound than even the major coal fusion claim and they need to be investigated.
There's no doubt about this.
There are health effects that have been observed By some individuals and groups that we have written about in a preliminary way in one of our magazines, issue 18 I believe, electrochemical activation of water that seems to produce health benefits of an extraordinary nature.
Now these technologies are in use already in Japan and in Russia.
They are most amazing.
What you have in effect in that technology is the ability of what looks like Ordinary water albeit processed electrochemically to be a very potent Sterilizing agent and they use it for curing many types of ailments such as gangrene and Diabetic conditions on limbs that are not practiced in this country And I would like to in the future of this discuss in our magazine and elsewhere How that technology in water is evolving?
Okay.
I mean, it blows my mind here, just thinking about it.
Oh, it is.
Now, there's another aspect which is even more heretical, and by the way, equal fun of by the critics.
It's called memory in water, and I'm not willing to say that this actually is real, although I suspect it is, because the scientific evidence for it has built up.
What does this mean, memory in water?
Well, Dr. Benveniste, jacques benveniste the famous french immunologist
uh... just before a cold fusion he published a paper in nature magazine
saying that he had tested water that was diluted that is a
a about water that was diluted agents were put in toxic agents were put into water
and the water was diluted many many many times such that
the final water okay
was uh... so dilute that the probability of even one molecule
of the toxic agent being in the final
was about one out of a million so in effect what you had at the very end
was pure water and yet
there appeared to be something like a memory effect whereby that pure water
applied to so
would create effects on those cells as though the molecules were
still there Okay, so we're talking about like metal has a memory.
It's not a human memory.
Not a human memory, but a remembrance, so to speak, of the molecule.
Now, there doesn't appear by conventional physics, or physics understandings, to be any way that this can happen.
And yet, the experimental data show it.
And he has provided even more provocative material that suggests that these types of processes, this memory and water process, which can be investigated experimentally, is something whereby cells in the body communicate with one another and chemical reactions are mediated.
So, to say the least, this memory of water controversy, which is about as intense as cold fusion, although it doesn't have as many people working on it, This is a very important thing, and in the future we will cover that.
As I say, I don't ratify it, but on the other hand, I think it should be investigated very, very objectively and as a high priority.
Now, how does that relate to cold fusion?
Well, it may not be related, although it is related in the sense that it again shows some properties of water that were Previously thought of as being nonsensical, but nonetheless appear to have experimental basis.
By the way, the whole field of homeopathic medicine, which does partake of this, that's why Benveniste got into it, he wasn't a homeopathic physician, but homeopathic medicine for centuries, two centuries, has relied on these dilutions, and this was merely an attempt to do a scientific investigation which appears to have produced positive results
there's so much we don't know and if only we could open our minds and move
forward that's right all right uh... let's take a quick call here from uh...
from dan in spring valley hi dan you're on the air at uh...
at the art bell show uh... i was just wondering uh...
this is like advanced far enough
uh... so that maybe
you can make like little home generators, you know?
That's where it will go.
It will?
Yes.
The whole future of energy on this planet will be that of distributed power systems.
We're not going to have the grid.
The grid is going to wither and die, just like the horse and buggies left us.
We're going to have power sources in homes for generating electricity.
That's where it's going.
How far do you think it is away from getting to that point?
Well, I would like to think it's closer than we think.
It seems like such a wonderful vision.
I don't rule out that a significant amount of this can begin to occur in the next decade.
And perhaps, actually like the computer revolution, which really occurred in a span of Within a span of 20 years, we had a revolution in technology called the personal computer revolution.
I personally believe that the same intensity of revolution, perhaps even greater, can occur with cold fusion once the first products enter the marketplace.
In the first early days of the personal computer revolution, they were just toys and kits, little sort of hobbyist kits, between 1975 and roughly 1980.
But when that really began to take off and there were things like the Apple computer
and so forth, then we had the beginnings of a revolution.
Okay, thank you sir.
And Dr. Miller, we'll take a final couple of calls for you right after these exciting
messages here on Coast to Coast AM.
From Obeon County, Texas. Hi Perry. Yeah, yeah. I wanted to ask Dr. Mallow about, if
he was aware of Dr. Stevens' career, his work on the OPRS Unity machine.
Art Bell has had him on his show several times as a guest.
He's supposed to unveil one pretty soon there.
I heard something about that.
I don't know enough about it at the moment to really have an intelligent discussion about it on the air.
We'll just keep that under discussion.
I can tell you that Dr. Greer will be a speaker at the upcoming conference on future energy at the Holiday Inn in Bethesda, Maryland.
Perhaps we'll hear a little bit about that device.
from Dr. Greer at the time.
All right, let's move along here to talk with Al in Albuquerque.
Good morning, Al.
Hello.
Yeah, I noticed that last night they've been saying we really don't know what's going on.
I think that's because we lack a grand unified theory.
We lack full understanding of what's going on in cold fusion processes, but I don't think we need a grand unified theory.
We just need Well, whatever can explain cold fusion will explain it, and perhaps we will use it without having it fully understood.
Much as primitive peoples used fire and medicines of various kinds from the natural forests without knowing exactly what they were doing or how they were working.
I noticed a difference between cold fusion and warm superconductivity.
When that came out, everybody got on the bandwagon.
It worked very easily.
The blessing for high-temperature superconductivity or warm superconductivities, you would say, was that it was very easy to reproduce.
Cold fusion didn't have that blessing.
Had it had that blessing, it would have been a different course.
It was reproducible enough in the beginning such that good people got the results and stuck to it, but it allowed the critics a very easy out to say oh it's a mess and no one can
reproduce it and it's this and it's that and that's how it all got off to a bad start.
Okay thank you.
Let's move on here to Tom in Fresno.
Good morning Tom.
Hello.
Yes sir.
Can you hear me?
Very loud and clear.
I can barely hear you.
Well, it's important for you to talk up.
Okay.
Professor, it's a pleasure to talk to you, sir.
Well, don't elevate me to professor.
I'm a doctor.
Okay.
If that is an elevation, doctor.
There's a situation that the scientists have overlooked, and that's the fact that functional entities operate on the basis of a scheme, symmetry, methodology, and system.
And Jay Forrester of MIT points out that man lives and works within systems, but even so the principles governing the behavior systems are not widely understood.
So in other words, science works to describe systematic and schematic morphologic features of it, but they don't understand What are you getting at?
What I'm getting at is that Watson, the co-discoverer of the AA Alex, says that the growth and division of cells are based upon the same laws of chemistry that control the behavior of molecules outside of cells.
So, in other words, chemistry, chemicals, and living cells operate on the same scheme, symmetry, methodology, and system.
Now, you just mentioned a minute ago, before the commercial, that you were going into this other field for information that you thought had some analogies, homologies, or homogeneities.
Is that correct?
Right.
I didn't say I was going into it.
I said we will be considering it.
We will be looking at the evidence for it because it's an issue.
Okay, thank you.
Let's go along here and talk with John in Westchester County, New York.
that need to be investigated and they might have some bearing on
they might be interrelated okay thank you
and let's go on here and talk with john in uh... westchester county new york i don't
Hi, Hillary.
You know, there's a certain amount of controversy over this conference on free energy that Dr. Mallow has not mentioned to the listeners.
Well, I tried to, but what... Last month, I received a mailing from the Integrity Research Institute stating that this conference was going to be held at the Dean Atkinson Auditorium at the State Department, and it was going to be co-hosted by the Secretary of State's Open Forum program.
Yes, I was correct.
It was.
Why is it being moved to Bethesda, and why is the State Department no longer involved?
Before the doctor answers, let me say this was addressed much earlier.
You probably didn't hear it, but he did indeed address it, so he's not obfuscating or trying to avoid it, but go ahead and answer.
Basically, a critic who had just been hired, he's a physicist with the Arms Control Agency in the State Department, found out about this conference just soon after he joined that he was outraged because he none of this makes any sense to him even though he doesn't he proved publicly in atlanta georgia at the american physical society that he didn't know anything about the content he went down the list of speakers and he was making fun of it before a thousand physicists but he took action to get it moved uh... from the state department
Well, he just killed it there.
And then Tom Vallone of the Integrity Research Institute had it moved to the Commerce Department.
He is a member, by the way, a patent examiner, so he had some contacts there.
Then, strings were pulled by these nasty physicists, and apparently they got it killed at the Commerce Department too.
At which time, Tom Vallone had it arranged that we will have it.
On April 28th, excuse me, 29th, 30th, and May 1st at the Bethesda, Maryland Holiday Inn.
Okay, John, does that answer your question?
Well, were there any problems with people complaining that the State Department wanted U.S.
citizens to register their Social Security numbers?
Oh, there was an aspect of that, but that wasn't the reason it was moved.
No, no, no.
It had to do with a physicist who was very prejudiced against the topic, the subject matter.
And he was unwilling to, he felt that it was his duty as a newly hired worker within the State Department to get this thing pulled out, as he put it, so that it would not embarrass the Secretary of State.
Okay.
Thank you much.
And let's see if we get a final call in here from Contra Costa County and Ezra.
Good morning.
Is Ezra here?
Yeah.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
Well, Doctor, some hour ago or so, you mentioned something, an inference about carbon dioxide.
And I just wondered if you would answer this question for me in your mind.
Which came first, hydrocarbon or carbohydrates?
Which came first?
In what sense came first?
Well, there's a good reason for that question and I want to make a statement afterward.
Well we have to understand the question.
Which do you really don't understand the question?
Carbohydrate or hydrocarbon?
I mean, hydrocarbons exist on the earth.
We're burning hydrocarbons now by the tons on our cars.
What about the carbohydrates?
Which came first?
Well, you know, it's a question of the origin of oil, and I'm not sure... Yeah, but it is.
It's exactly what I'm getting at.
The origin of life.
Where did it come from?
Well, the origin of life, we do not have any proof of exactly where it comes from.
Well, you don't have any proof of evolution, not one tiny iota, and that's the only other thing there can be except a creation, right?
Well, uh, that's your opinion, and you're welcome to it.
It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of science!
Well, uh... True science!
That's another subject.
You mentioned Faraday a while ago, which is in the same subject.
Mr. Faraday, Michael Faraday, a great man, friend of mine, by the way.
Michael Faraday?
was a solid creationist.
In 1846, you were that old?
That's right.
How old are you?
148.
Really?
No, I'm kidding, of course.
Well, anyway, I just wanted to get through and ask you the important question.
Who made you, why were you made, and what is your duty?
Those are the three questions Noel Webster said constitute the whole business of life.
That's a subject for another day.
It certainly is.
Okay, thank you very much.
I tell you.
Hey, we have to have one question.
I'm going to ask you a question.
us another time.
All right, Dr. Malove, once again, you have been superlative in your presentation.
Well, thank you.
Well, I was really concerned that maybe you'd get very technical on me.
Well, I didn't do that, did I?
No, you did not.
Okay.
And that's why I'm complimenting you.
Otherwise, I'd say you're a bum and get ready.
No, that's really fine.
And of course, I do want to point out to people, I didn't do this except in the first hour, that Dr. Malove is a highly degree to individual in his fields. He has a master of
science degree, bachelor of science degree in aeronautical and astronautical engineering from
the MIT, science doctorate in environmental health sciences, air pollution control engineering from
Harvard University, and on and on and on. Places he's worked, he's used research laboratories,
MIT Lincoln Laboratory.
What I'm sort of saying here is, we get people who come on these programs with all kinds of theories that don't have substance, or they have no background, the people who present them.
And to be talking to someone with this kind of background is a real pleasure, because he sort of knows where he's coming from.
So, Dr. Mello, quickly, I've only got about 10 seconds here, do you want to give us your web address again?
Okay, www.infinite-energy.com, phone number 603-228-4516 in New Hampshire.
Very good.
Sir, thank you for spending the night with us.
Thank you for having me on.
Okay, tomorrow night, Feng Shui, Richard Webster will be here, and just could change your whole life, friends, and it's very simple to do.
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