Art Bell - Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Cold Fusion & Oil Company Coverup - Eugene Mallove

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April 21, 1999 - Art Bell

02:37:54

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Cold Fusion & Oil Company Coverup - Eugene Mallove

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eugene mallove

01:30:21

hilly rose

37:02

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budd hopkins

01:20

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unidentified		This is Coaster Coaster on the Premier Radio Network.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Zen for March, and we have a guest tonight that will not be sox.
		First of all, he's a very, well, more than intelligent.
		What I wanted to say was he's an extremely well-spoken man.
		He is a highly educated man.
		He has been fighting the good fight for a long time.
		And we are going to find out the very latest tonight about cold fusion.
		Now, that sounds very technical, and I want to tell you right now, if you're about to turn the radio off, that this is not going to be a technical discussion, unless you want it to be.
		Dr. Malov is very well equipped to handle any technical question relative to this subject of cold fusion.
		But what it is, how it works, well, I saw an interesting video that he produced called Fire from Water.
		Would you believe that?
		Well, a lot of scientists don't.
		And yet, there it is.
		It makes a lot of good sense.
		And we'll talk about that in just a moment.
		And my guest will be with us in just a moment.
		I wanted to, first of all, wish you a kind and gentle night.
		And I do mean that.
		And I wanted to give you a couple of phone numbers because no matter how many times I say it, there are lots and lots of people who write to me and say, how do I get this information?
		I tried the website, didn't work.
		I was sleeping or I was driving in my car, didn't have a pencil.
		How do I get the information?
		It's really pretty simple.
		You go on your website to www.I'm sorry, Art Bell.
		It's one of the best websites possible.
		And it has all the latest information, talks about the guests, tells you what, you know, in Pracy, what they had to say, and what their website numbers are, and how to get in touch with them, and all that kind of stuff.
		You send me hundreds and hundreds of emails and faxes about.
		So I do hope that you will take advantage of this.
		It is the best way.
		If you do not have a computer, then you dial 541-664-8829.
		And if you want to order one of the programs on tape, you can do that by calling 1-800-917-4278.
		Now, before I bring on Dr. Malov, we talk on this program a great deal about government conspiracies, the terrible industrial complex that rules our world.
		And there are many, many stories about how inventions that work, that could make our life easier, are somehow always put down, hidden.
		The companies, the gas companies, we hear these stories all the time.
		Somebody invented a way to go 1,000 miles on a gallon of gas.
		And the guy comes to the gas companies and they buy it up.
		And that's the last you ever hear of it.
		You've heard those stories.
		But I'm in the radio business.
		And this story is exactly what we're talking about.
		And we'll be talking about all night.
		It's how the big guys, the fat cats, create a situation where something that would save us millions and billions of dollars, solve our energy problems, is put aside because it disrupts the thinking of those who say that there are laws of physics and laws of chemistry and you can't break them.
		Oh, really?
		That's why I do believe in UFOs, because all these people that say, oh, they couldn't get from here to there, it takes so much time.
		Well, what do we know about the real world of physics and the real world of chemistry and the real world for that matter?
		And I'm not talking about just our world.
		I'm talking about our universe and the other universes that they're suddenly discovering out there.
		But let me tell you this story quickly because I want to get to Dr. Mellov.
		There is a thing that you probably have in your home.
		It is called FM Radio.
		And you're probably saying, boy, this is really good.
		I like this.
		It makes music sound wonderful.
		And you're probably saying to yourself, when was this thing invented?
		Sometime after the Second World War.
		Wrong.
		Not so.
		There was a guy, and I think I've got his name right.
		I didn't have a chance to look it up.
		I believe he was called Herbert Armstrong.
		And way back in the 30s and late 20s, he invented FM radio.
		But a guy by the name of General Sarnoff, who was in charge of RCA and NBC, no way, no how was going to let Herbert Armstrong get that FM out into the marketplace because it was so far superior to AM radio.
		And so General Sarnoff insisted we had this investment.
		After all, RCA had a huge investment in these radios, and if you're old enough, you remember the great big ones that sat like TV sets do today.
		And what were they going to do?
	Make them obsolete?
	No, that's not going to happen.
	So what he did to Armstrong, well, it's a long, long story, and I won't get into it.
	But what he did basically to Armstrong was ignore him, vilify him, say he was no good, etc.
	After the Second World War, when television came into being and Sarnov knew how much better FM was in terms of sound quality, and you didn't have the static, and it was just in every way superior.
	What he did was stole it from Armstrong and put it into all the FM sets, I mean, all the television sets.
	And so all of the television sets you have have FM sound.
	Well, of course, Armstrong was absolutely appalled.
	He sued Sarnoff.
	I don't think I, because I didn't again look this up, it was from memory.
	I believe that it just broke his heart, and I think he died before the lawsuit came to fruition because Sarnoff kept delaying it and delaying it and delaying it.
	Why do I tell you that story?
	Because I don't want you to think what we are going to present tonight, which is horrifying, to think there is something that is made out of water, plentiful all over the world, excepting the Sahara Desert, of course, that there is something like water, or made of water, that could absolutely put the fossil fuel people out of business overnight.
	We could drop the price of the fuels that we use from what are we paying these days, a dollar and a half roughly, to maybe 10 cents.
	Look what it would do to the economy.
	Just think how, and like Tesla, you know, Tesla, the reason we have wires in our homes now is because nobody would listen to Tesla when he said, we don't have to put it on wire.
	We can send it out over the air.
	No, they wouldn't listen because you can't put a monitor, can't put a gauge on what goes out over the air, but you sure can.
	Look at all the meter readers, that would be out of business.
	I'm saying to you that what Dr. Malov has to present to you tonight is terribly important in the context of the Art Bell Show because it's another proof of how the industrial, military-industrial complex sits on an invention that makes sense, and they run frightened.
	They run frightened because they may not have the plush jobs, the millions that they make.
	And then there's the other side of the story, which I'm sure Dr. Mallow will give us first, and that is that cold fusion is a reality.
	Cold fusion works.
	It's had its problems, but it's been 10 years since it was discovered by two fine scientists.
	And, well, there's a big, big story here, friends.
	And I think a lot of people should be ashamed of themselves to give us the problems that we have today in our society that could be solved so simply.
	I'm talking about energy problems, but it's another one of those stories like the FNAM controversy.
	All right, I'm going to take a brief, I hope it's brief, break, and then I'm going to bring Dr. Malov in and we'll go uninterrupted for quite some time.
	So you stay right there because what you're going to hear tonight is going to appall you, but it will give you some heart that there is a solution to our problems.
	I am Hilly Rose, in for Art Bell, and I think I know that Dr. Malov has been on this program before, but not for some four years.
	A lot has happened since that time.
	And I'll present that to you.
	Instanter.
unidentified		Instanter.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		We are talking tonight about cold fusion.
		I'm going to take just a moment here to read a few, just a few of the credits and bona fides of our guest, Dr. Eugene Malov, because it would take all of the rest of the hour if I read every one of them.
		But Dr. Malov has been the editor-in-chief and publisher of the bimonthly Infinite Energy magazine.
		He holds a master's degree of science and bachelor of science degree in aeronautical and astronautical engineering from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Danny de Bad School, and a science doctorate in environmental health sciences, air pollution control, etc., from Harvard University.
		He's had a broad experience in various engineering companies, including Hughes Research Laboratories, the Analytics Science Corporation, and MIT Lincoln Laboratory.
		And as I say, I could go on and on and on.
		Dr. Malov, have I done you proud?
		Have I said the right things?
		Are you willing to accept what I've said here?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
		You were most kind, and your introduction just now and previously was most gratifying.
		And, well, I hope it's on target.
		I think it is.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		I think it is too, sir.
		And I would say to you that the reason I told the story about the radio situation, which I knew, is because I think many people, when I mention cold fusion, are so concerned that what you're going to do tonight is give us a whole big technical thing.
		And I know that if somebody calls in, you'll have a technical answer.
		But I think we need to put this in layperson's terms.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		So maybe the best thing to do to start is to ask you, how the hell is cold fusion?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the only way we can really begin to address that is to remind people of how the story began.
		Because many people do remember, and some don't, that there was a big news story around March 23rd, 1989.
		That's when it all began.
		That's when the general world became aware of this controversy, which has become known as cold fusion.
		Drs.
		Martin Fleischmann from England, fellow of the Royal Society, world-class electrochemist, and Dr. Stanley Pons, who was the head of the chemistry department then at the University of Utah, they gave a press conference on the afternoon of March 23, 1989.
		And ironically, your listeners should know, this occurred just 12 hours before the Exxon Valleldees ran aground off the coast of Alaska.
		So there was another big story that happened roughly at the same time.
		And almost by cosmic coincidence, what they were announcing, that is cold fusion, even though they didn't call it cold fusion, would put the oil age eventually out of business.
		That hasn't happened yet, as you mentioned.
		But what did they say at this press conference?
		They said that they had been working with what is called an electrochemical cell, not to get too technical here.
		They were putting electricity into a jar of water, so to speak.
		This water is a form of water that's in all water.
		It happens to be called heavy water.
		We can get into what that means later, but one out of every 6,500 water molecules is a heavy water molecule.
		it has a special kind of hydrogen in it.
		And they said we put this electricity in, and what we find is we're getting heat out over a period of time, and this heat is so large, well, we measure it very carefully, we cannot describe this by anything we have ever seen before.
		And let's face it, Hilly, these people were world-class chemists.
		They were getting up in front of international media at the University of Utah, and they were making this rather provocative statement.
		And they were either right, that is, they had measured their heat properly, or they were wrong, and they had made a gigantic mistake.
		They said this heat is so large that it's got to be some kind of nuclear reaction occurring in this special cell.
		And that became known as cold fusion.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		I don't understand.
		Why is it cold fusion?
		Because I mean, a nuclear bomb is also cold until you make it hot.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay.
		We know that we are living on a planet, Earth, that is warmed by the sun.
		And how is that sun producing its wonderful light, life-giving power over the billions of years?
		Well, modern physics appears to have concluded that it does work on the basis of what is called hot fusion or nuclear fusion.
		The hydrogen inside the sun, in the deep inner core of it, fuses together, that is, joins, and forms a new element called helium.
		That's the kind of gas that you get in little children's balloons.
		And this is a nuclear process, a fusion process, the same kind of fusion that occurs in the hydrogen bomb, the thermonuclear bombs that have been stored up by the Soviet Union, a former Soviet Union, and the U.S. city-busting deadly weapons.
		This is hot fusion.
		And the story from modern physics is that the only way you can get these hydrogen atoms, or actually the center parts, the nuclei of these atoms, the only way you can get them to fuse, join together, is to subject them to incredibly high temperatures, millions and millions of degrees.
		So when Pons and Fleischmann at this news conference on March 23, 89, said, oh no, we have done it, in effect.
		We have done what you've been trying to do with billions of government dollars for decades.
		We have done it in a small jar of water.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		They didn't say it quite that impolitely, but it was just as well that they had said it that impolitely, because that was the implication.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		We have a new way of generating nuclear energy that doesn't require millions and millions of degrees, such as in hot fusion.
		And so that, my good friend, was the origin of the controversy.
		The physicists neither believed it and they were threatened by it and they did everything in their power to, instead of trying to confirm Ponz and Fleischmann, try to get rid of them.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		It's like the perpetual machine, though.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		How much energy do you have to put in relative to how much do you get out?
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Coal fusion is not, quote-unquote, perpetual motion any more than a standard operating nuclear power plant today is perpetual motion.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Now if you took Ben Franklin, brought him here into the 20th century or near 21st century, and showed him a nuclear power plant today and how it starts up and so forth, he would be amazed.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		Where's the smoke?
		Where's the coal?
		Where's the wood?
		Where's that?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It's nowhere.
		What do we have to power this nuclear plant?
		Oh, he'd be shown these metal rods made out of uranium and so forth.
		And he would be said, oh, gee, these rods just get hot.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		Now, is that perpetual motion?
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely not.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		We know that there is a nuclear reaction, a so-called fission, a splitting reaction, going on in those rods.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		So no one is surprised today when you have pieces of metal that stay hot in a nuclear reactor.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		All right, now, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but we're coming down to the end of this hour, and I'll let continue right after the break.
		But you didn't answer my question, and that is how efficient is it?
		In other words, that was really trusted, my question, not perpetual motion.
		In other words, for what you put in, how much you get out?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, it can be an infinite amount.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		In other words, in one gallon of seawater, there's hundreds of gallons of gasoline equivalent.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I think that's a good point to end.
		And we're only getting started, folks.
		Got a lot of stuff to go through tonight, both from the spoky theory or spoky, the part of obfuscation and fighting standard science, because they say you can't do that, even though they're doing it.
		My guest, Dr. Eugene Malove, sitting in for our bell.
unidentified		I am Haley Rose.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		This is Coast to Coast AM, our Bell Show.
		My name is Kelly Rose.
		Sit again.
		And my guest tonight, the dynamic, Dr. Eugene Malov, who is the editor-in-chief and publisher of the bi-monthly Infinite Energy magazine.
		The subject tonight is cold fusion.
		Dr. Malov, as we had to end, you were saying that from a cup of water, you could get many thousands, thousands of gallons of, or infinite amount of energy like gasoline.
		A quick question, I'll let you go on, and that is, are we talking salt water or freshwater here?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Doesn't matter.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Really?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Let's bring it down to really concrete terms for your listeners, okay?
		In one cubic mile of ocean, what's a cubic mile?
		Let's be absolutely sure everyone knows what that is.
		A chunk of ocean, one mile by one mile by one mile.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Mile deep as well.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Right, mile deep, mile north, mile east and west, and a mile deep.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		That chunk of ocean.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		That's a lot of water.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		All right.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		But no, actually, well, okay, you think it's a lot of water, but...
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		Go, not compared to the ocean, indeed.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Actually, we might want to say kilometers instead of cubic miles because that's the way scientists talk.
		But our English North American type folk are more familiar with miles.
		So let's say they're roughly equivalent anyway.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		All right.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		In one such cubic mile, there is enough of the fuel of cold fusion or hot fusion for that matter.
		So there is no dispute about this.
		Hot fusion, that is the thing that the government scientists have been trying for decades to do, they would say the same thing.
		So there's no dispute about this.
		If you can fuse the heavy hydrogen, which is part of the heavy water, in that one cubic mile of ocean, salt water, fresh water, whatever you want, that is enough energy in there, enough fusion energy to equal all the known oil reserves on Earth.
		Just in one cubic mile.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		Now think about that.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		That means if we can find a way, either by hot fusion or cold fusion or any fusion of the heavy hydrogens to make helium in seawater, we have solved Earth's problems because there are energy problems, because there are quite literally almost a billion cubic kilometers of ocean on Earth.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		It's startling, it's hopeful, and it's disgusting at the same time.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Because we have the solution.
		That is, we have the solution in prototype form.
		Let us not delude the audience here.
		There aren't devices now ready to plug into your home and get you off the grid.
		But there could be, and perhaps we could have had them a few years ago had this discovery announced by Drs.
		Pons and Fleischman been taken seriously and given the credit that it certainly deserves.
		Now, in the beginning, this discovery could have been a mistake.
		And believe me, I did not believe it on day one.
		Nor did I believe it, in fact, for about a year after the announcement.
		It took me, it took many other people, a long time to come to terms with this.
		I mean, this was a shocking concept.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not a physicist nor a chemist, but doesn't it break the laws of chemistry and physics?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It appeared to, because, you see, the central parts of atoms, the nucleus, the tiny little nucleus that is the bulk of the mass of every atom, every part of our body, okay, these things are positively charged.
		When you try to bang them together, they don't want to go together.
		That electrical repulsion force likes, repel each other.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		They don't want to come together.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		In order to bring them close enough together so that they fuse and the nuclear reactions take over, the so-called nuclear force, you have to have, so they thought, millions and millions of degrees.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		But they didn't contemplate the idea that this could be done instead of in a vacuum, which is what the physicists were trying to do for decades.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		You know, the sun is in effect in a vacuum.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It's producing its hot fusion in a vacuum, okay, so to speak.
		But they didn't contemplate what would happen if you put the hydrogen into a metal, like palladium.
		That's what Pons and Fleischmann were using.
		And others after them came and found that you could do it with nickel if you did the right thing.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		And on and on and on.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		The original discovery of Pons and Fleischmann, in fact, was but the tip of the iceberg.
		It is now this discovery, while not promoted at all by government, in fact fought by government, the U.S. government in particular, and ignored and disparaged by government scientists, not all of them, but most of them.
		This discovery now, as far as I'm concerned, and as far as hundreds of scientific colleagues that I have are concerned, the proof is overwhelming.
unidentified		It's not maybe or if.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It's 100%.
		In the first year, it was indeed iffy.
		Were Pons and Fleischmann correct?
		It was a complex story.
		Why did they have a press conference at all?
		That became the dominant sin, so to speak, of Pons and Fleischmann, as criticized by the mainstream media, as influenced by the physicists in academia.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		That's the problem.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		The physicists in academia did not like this.
		They didn't believe it.
		They didn't act like true scientists.
		They acted like the politicians that they really are.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Let's be fair here.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		It didn't really work every time.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		It couldn't be duplicated in other labs.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It couldn't be duplicated.
		Well, let's be really accurate.
		It couldn't be duplicated easily and trivially on demand.
		But it was duplicated enough times by enough good scientists that they should have, that is the academic scientists who began to attack it, should have been more cautious in their pronouncement.
		You know, it wasn't as though this came out in the best way.
		Pons and Fleischmann, by their own admission, did not want to make this press conference on March 23rd, 1989.
		They wanted to work another year and a half.
		It's a complex story, which I told in my book, Fire from Ice, which came out in 91 by John Wiley and sons.
		Somewhat of an old story, but I concluded then that it was real.
		That is, in 91 I did.
		But it's a complicated story as to what forced them into, or the University of Utah, into this press conference.
		But, you know, just because a human disclosure of a discovery, which then is problematic in The way it's reproduced and so forth and so on.
		Just because there are those problems, did not give other scientists license to call them frauds, to pledge their own data, as it was at MIT, to take a positive result, an initially positive result, or excess heat, the cold fusion effect, and turn it into a null result.
		And then get this Department of Energy panel, which was packed with bigoted scientists who thought on day one, this is utter nonsense.
		There's no point in even having a panel.
		But they had the panel anyway.
		And this kangaroo court of Department of Energy hired thugs.
		I would like to say not all of them were thugs.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		I was going to say, be a little careful here, Dale.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		All right.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		And in all fairness, because I saw your film today and it's a magnificent job.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Let me say to you that what I like best about it is you spent, it's an hour long, but the first half hour is letting all these scientists who didn't believe in you say what they wanted to say.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		So it isn't a propaganda film.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		You put all the negatives on it first and then came back.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Okay, but what I do get carried away.
		I have to apologize.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I sometimes get carried away with my language because these people indeed have been rather nasty, okay?
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Well, what I learned from your film is that some of these very same people on the government panel, after it was all over and voted no against it, then went out and tried to seek government grants to create cold fusion themselves.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		You got it.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		They did.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		I don't like it, but I got it.
unidentified		Right.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, go ahead, Doctor.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's talk about this panel.
		And how did this panel arrive to begin with?
		All right, there was the announcement.
		It became a big news story.
		That's the essence of what happened.
		It was a premature disclosure, but in a way, looking back retrospectively, it was very good that it happened because it got the world energized, and good scientists learned how to do it.
		They made positive findings, difficult as it was, came to the conclusion that it was positive.
		Okay, the bad side, the downside was all the eggs weren't in a line, all the ducks weren't in water, and so we couldn't immediately reproduce it.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		All right.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		A guy walked into President Bush's office.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, hold it right there because I need to go to commercials, and I don't want to interrupt you again.
		And it's right here.
		Okay, guy walked into President Bush's office, did you say?
		Or Reagan?
		Or Reagan, was it?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Bush.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Bush.
		Okay.
		Anybody who's able to walk into a presidential office has got to be important.
		So you hang in there, please, Dr. Malov.
		And we will continue right here on Coast to Coast AM, the Art Bell Show.
		I am Millie Rose, sitting in.
unidentified		Mississippi, in the middle of a dry spell.
		All over the world.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
		To purchase cassette copies of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell or to subscribe to Art Bell's After Dark newsletter, call 1-800-917-4278.
		Now, once again, from the Kingdom of Nye, here's Art Bell.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Hilly Rose sitting in, and my guest is Dr. Eugene Malog.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		And you were saying, Dr. Mallow, that a person walked into President Bush's office.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Go ahead.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this is how things got off on the wrong track.
		And this is by the admission of this now-deceased individual, actually a rather important scientist in our century.
		His name was Dr. Glenn Seaborg.
		He died recently.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Very, very well-known and respected man.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
		And in fact, he has an element named after him, Seaborgium.
		I think it's element 106.
		But in any event, with all due credit to him, he did walk in, by his own admission, on the record in an interview, on April 14th, 1989, which was only three weeks after Pons and Fleischmann made this announcement.
		And he is on record as having said to President Bush, this is not really fusion, okay?
		That is the discovery that everyone was in an uproar about during this initial period.
		It was not fusion.
		Now, how did he know that?
		He didn't know it.
		He didn't know a damn thing.
		He just assumed that theoretically it couldn't happen.
		Of course, many scientists had that same reaction.
		It couldn't happen, so don't worry about it.
		They were kind of talking, basically all the upper monkey muck scientists and physicists were talking behind closed doors, and the hot fusion people funded by government grants were talking, you know, this thing has got to be crazy.
		This is not real.
		This can't happen.
		And the reason they thought it couldn't happen was that if it did happen, that is, if the hydrogen was fusing in the metal, it would kill Pons and Fleischmann with radiation.
		And so if Pons and Fleischmann and their graduate students were not dead, therefore they had to be wrong.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		That's in essence what they thought.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		But they didn't even give the experiment the time a day after that.
		In fact, one of the people who ultimately got on this federal panel, this Department of Energy panel, his name was Professor William Happer of Princeton.
		He worked on hot fusion for many years.
		And he was an advisor to one of the, to the top, the Secretary of Energy, Admiral Watkins at the time in the Bush administration, the early days of the Bush administration.
		And he said to one of the journalists, I mean, he was reflecting on what his ideas were at the time, he said, you know, I didn't have the heart to tell the Scientific American reporter that just by looking at Pons and Fleischman on TV, you could tell they were incompetent boobs.
		This is a Princeton physicist, deeply immersed in hot fusion, shamelessly in 1993, quoted in one of the negative books against cold fusion, stating on the public record, he knew it was nonsense because just by looking at Pons and Fleischmann on television, he knew that they had to be incompetent boops.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Well, these two guys were highly well-respected.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		I mean, they had a lot of degrees.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		They did.
		Well, degrees mean, as we now know, during the past 10 years of the coal fusion war, We know that degrees will get you just about nothing.
		You know, I mean, you can have PhDs stacked up, but you can still not know Science 101.
		And by the way, this is the most incredible discovery of all of the last 10 years.
		More important even than coal fusion itself.
		And that is, we now have proved that most academic scientists with PhDs do not know the basics of science, which is science 101.
		Namely, the data from experiments are much more important than previous theories about how the world works.
		And didn't these scientists learn this when they looked at the history of Galileo and everybody else who was denied?
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		I loved in your film where you said that when the Wright brothers went up in their heavier-than-air plane, not one newspaper reporter was there to cover it, not one newspaper reporter, because everybody knew it couldn't be done.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Actually, there were a handful that did, but they got the story wrong.
		But the mainstream newspapers, the New York Times and the Washington Post and everyone, back in 1903 and 1903 to 1908, they thought the Wright brothers were frauds.
		And they said so.
		Okay?
		It took five years of flying in broad daylight before there was a big demonstration that was finally called at Fort Myers, Virginia in 1908, no less, five years later, before the idea that two bicycle mechanics had solved the problem that the physicists had said was impossible, would never be solved.
		Okay?
		This is the same thing, although in a much more extreme form, I would say, that has happened in the case of Fleischmann and Pons and all who came after them.
		It's very, very similar.
		And so in the video, Coal Fusion Fire from Water, which blessedly is available even as we speak.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'll let you give an address for that, Charlie.
unidentified		Sure.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		But basically, you know, Arthur C. Clarke reflects, and he is a great supporter of coal fusion at this point.
		He says he is a little conservative.
		He says, I'm 99% sure that it's real, in case it's pretty overwhelming.
		But he wants to have a little safety margin there because he's not a person involved in day-to-day evaluation of the data.
		But he said that, you know, the Wright brothers encountered the same problem.
		I'm amazed that science appears not to have learned some very fundamental facts of how its own house should be conducted.
		We shouldn't believe everything that comes along the pike.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm surprised you're surprised.
unidentified		It's comfortable.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		It's cozy in the university.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		It is.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's very cozy because the way it works is the government gives money to universities.
		It's really not the industrial, military industrial complex that you spoke of earlier.
		It's the academic government complex, I would say.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Wait, are you saying to me, Dr. Mello, and I know you can't prove this, nor can I. Are you saying to me that the normal fossil fuel people or the gas companies that they have no hand in this, that they aren't paying off people?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Let me say this.
		I actually believe, in this case, surprisingly, my thought is that they really aren't.
		I don't think the oil people are behind the opposition.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Why would they destroy themselves?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, you see, I think they're too stupid.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Honestly, they really are.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		They're incredibly stupid.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		And also, they're incredibly rich.
		And if you take a typical CEO of a large oil company, he's making plenty of money.
		Even if he gets fired the next day, he's going to have a fat pension, right?
		He doesn't care too much, one way or the other, what the company's working on, whether it's coal fusion or oil or whatever it is.
		They could easily switch to coal fusion if they wanted to, if they were smart enough to.
		In fact, here's a story from the coal fusion war that will really blow your mind.
		Amoco did coal fusion experiments, okay?
		And they had just the right equipment due to oil exploration at the time, a calorimeter, and they hooked it up quickly and they, lo and behold, their scientists found the excess heat.
		And this report was much later published.
		They were ready set to go to do a major investment in coal fusion research.
		They had no problem with that.
		One of their top scientists later divulged this to me.
		It was not because they were afraid that it would destroy the oil empire.
		It was because the Department of Energy report, which was negative, quickly negative, discouraged them.
		In other words, the company executives believed, apparently, the propaganda coming out of Washington.
		They were all set to support it, apparently, if this tale, not tale, if this report at a scientific meeting by a top Amoco scientist, he was then not of Amoco, but he was from the Texas area, if this story is to be believed, the government's own report screwed up an oil company's intention to get into this.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		And apparently Japan has a lot of companies like Mitsubishi that have been fooling around with this stuff because they know that if it really works, they could power their vehicles without gasoline.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		And wow, wouldn't that be something?
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		You know, so look, the kangaroo court occurred.
		The other fellow, the Darth Vader of Cold Fusion, as I would like to say, is John Heizenga.
		Now, he came on, as you saw him in the video.
		You saw him saying, we found out, our panel found out that this contradicted everything we had learned in the last 50 years of physics, of nuclear physics.
		And he's damn straight, it did.
		In other words, what we were seeing in coal fusion appeared to contradict what we had learned over the last 50 years.
		It was a new environment.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		It was a solid state.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		It wasn't the vacuum.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		But he was the head of the panel, and he told the top people from Seaborg and Bush, everyone else.
		This is what he told them when they asked him to be the head of the panel.
		And he admits this proudly in his anti-coal fusion book.
		He said, I told them that it was nonsense.
		Don't even have a panel.
		In other words, the very person who became the leader of this kangaroo court told them not to even have a court.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		In other words, don't bother me with facts.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		I've made up my mind.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Right, I've made up my mind, but they picked them anyway, of course.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		And what they got is what, of course, we did have.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Doctor, I only have a minute here.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		In the next hour, I would like you please to bring us up quickly to the late-breaking development on this, which is why I asked you on the program.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		Very good.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		You've given us a wonderful hour of history.
		And now I'd like to bring us up to date.
		And then, of course, I want to get to callers who are a lot more knowledgeable technically than I am.
		So the other thing quickly, if you will, how do people contact you with a magazine, if they want the magazine, if they want the videotape?
		Is there a website or what?
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, sure.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		We're linked.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		You've kindly linked us from your website, but that's great.
unidentified		www.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		www.infinite-energy.com.
		That gives you everything.
		But we have a phone number, which you're calling right now, is 603-228-4516.
		But there is voicemail, and we have secretarial services.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Would you give me that webpage again?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It's www.infinite-energy.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Infinite dash.
		Okay.com.
		Energy.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Don't forget the dot com at the end.
unidentified		I got it.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		All right, doctor, you have a libation of some water or something where we can relax because we've got a long evening ahead of us.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		And I'm really interested in what's developing now that maybe is bringing us closer to cold fusion.
unidentified		Okay.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		For Art Bell, I am Hilly Rose on Coast to Coast.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Hey, ya.
unidentified		For Art Bell, I am Hilly Rose on Coast.
		Come on, man.
		Oh, come on.
		Let the music play.
		What the people need is a way to make them smile.
		Ain't so what to do with you now.
		Gotta give a message.
		Get it all through.
		Oh, yeah, mama, come to you and why.
		Oh, wow, you're a beauty.
		Oh, wow.
		A bell is making your call in the Kingdom of Nye from west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		From East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Philly Rose sitting in for Arch.
		And tomorrow night on the program, Richard Webster will be with us all the way from New Zealand.
		Guest Monday Night was in Norway, and Richard tomorrow night is in New Zealand.
		The topic is feng shui.
		And you say, well, how much is there to say about feng shui?
		I don't know, but Richard has written seven, counted seven books on the subject.
		It has to do with gardening, has to do with your homes, has to do with your business.
		This could change your life, friends.
		It really could.
		So I hope that you'll be listening tomorrow night.
		Now, let's continue here with Dr. Eugene Malov, who is the editor-in-chief and publisher of the bimonthly Infinite Energy Magazine.
		And he's got a string of degrees that you could spend all night talking about.
		So he's a very knowledgeable man, a great storyteller.
		And Dr. Malov, I think now, because I want to get to calls pretty soon, you better tell us what's going on.
		What's happened?
		You detailed what happened 10 years ago.
		So where are we today in 1999?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, lots has happened.
		It's really an overwhelming amount.
		But let's try to summarize.
		Basically, by around 1991, I would say, certainly when I came to the conclusion, the scientific evidence had built up to 100% certainty.
		You know, the phenomenon were found.
		Okay, it was real.
		There was huge energy coming out that could not be explained by ordinary chemical reactions, even though there were problems reproducing it.
		And we also detected nuclear changes.
		These were not dangerous things.
		These were things that did not kill people.
		There were nuclear changes.
		The evidence, the scientific evidence built up.
		So let's distinguish the scientific evidence, which as I say was nearly 100% positive by 1991, two years after the announcement, from the technological aspects, like what can we do as far as making practical devices, even though we don't fully understand the reaction.
		And we have to admit to the audience, we don't fully understand the reaction or reactions, plural, which are taking place.
		This does not mean we have no theories.
		Actually, it means we have too many theories.
		So here's where it stands on technological developments.
		There are many little companies, mostly in the U.S., but plenty of industrial activity going on abroad and academic activity in Italy, in Japan, Russia, China, and so forth.
		It's all over the world now, France.
		But in the United States, little companies working on this have seen the effects, and they've sometimes seen them in rather spectacular ways.
		Sometimes they've even in the face of violent opposition by government academicians, have managed to get U.S. patents, etc.
		One company has been prominent, it's not the only company, Clean Energy Technologies of Sarasota, Florida.
		They, with a Patterson power cell, have demonstrated excess heat.
		Motorola tested some of their cells and in every case found them to be positive.
		And this used ordinary water and nickel with little beads that they had in their cells, special types of electrodes, and they generated a lot of power.
		In one case, they turned the input power off and the water kept flowing through and remaining hot.
		It was a significant test.
		Pons and Fleischmann have found that.
		There's another company called Black Light Power Corporation.
		That company does not like the term cold fusion.
		It has moved to Princeton, New Jersey area, ironically near the Princeton Hot Fusion Laboratory.
		And they have a process that appears also to produce excess heat in a big way.
		So I urge anyone listening to this also to check the Blacklight Power website for further technical information about what they're doing.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a website address?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		They do.
		BlackLight Power.
		One word, BlackLight, L-I-G-H-TPower.com.
		Dr. Randall Mills, who is both Harvard and MIT credentialed, he believes that the cold fusion reaction, I say he doesn't like that term, he has his own theory as to how this works.
		He does admit there are nuclear changes, but he has produced, to my satisfaction, data that show excess heat from electrochemical reactions and also reactions that are occurring at much higher temperatures in gas.
		We call this gas phase.
		In other words, things that would use no liquids at all, but derive from the hydrogen in water.
		There's a company in Massachusetts called Jet Energy Technology, and that is by Dr. Mitchell Swartz, another MIT graduate.
		And he has excess energy in the form of nickel light water systems.
		There's a company in Salt Lake City called Eneco.
		They have interesting gas phase type reactions.
		Now, recently, another direction has occurred, which might be the quantum, might be, as I say, might be the quantum leap that will boost, that could conceivably boost coal fusion very rapidly.
		A man by the name of Dr. Les Case, another MIT guy.
		God, MIT guys are in this picture big time, even though MIT played a negative role as an academic institution.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but it's a pretty good school.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, it is.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		I'll agree with that.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I'm proud of being an MIT graduate.
		I'm not proud of what MIT officials did to coal fusion, but I'm proud to be a graduate.
		Dr. Les Case in New Hampshire has come up with a method of doing coal fusion, and he calls it catalytic fusion.
		He puts something in a stainless steel cell.
		He puts catalysts in there.
		He, like in Edison, found the right catalyst.
		They have a little bit of palladium and carbon, and you put it in a cell, and lo and behold, when you put this heavy hydrogen gas in, it creates what looks like excess heat, excess heat coming out of it, and also, and most importantly, helium production.
		Helium, which is the very nuclear product that the anti-coal fusion people said, show us the helium.
		In 1989 they said this.
		Show us the helium and then we'll believe it.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's the helium.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It's there.
		Russ George of Saturna Technologies on the West Coast, he has confirmed that at SRI International, to my satisfaction.
		Dr. Arata in Japan has confirmed a similar type of helium-producing reaction with palladium.
		In other words, fine particles of palladium in a special kind of cell producing helium and heat.
		Now mind you, Dr. Arata in Japan is a hot fusion man, but he had the guts to test cold fusion and find results, spectacular results, publish these results, and of course the hot fusion people in the U.S., with their government funding and so forth, don't want to hear about this.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so let me understand this now.
		You've got something that is technologically, if that's the word, going to produce tremendous effects.
		We haven't touched ecology so far.
		We could say that coal burning and oil burning and all this pollution in the air would go away.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Completely.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Completely, all right.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Completely.
		In other words, we will have, in the coal fusion age that I predict will emerge out of this, as a person who has studied a bit about the history of science and technology, as my colleague Jed Rothwell certainly has, I can tell you that the logical conclusion of this can only be one thing.
		There is only one possibility, in my opinion, that will come out of this, and that is the fossil fuel age will be ended.
		The only issue that remains, in my opinion, is that.
		How fast is this going to happen?
		This could, in my opinion, have happened much earlier, which is why this is so disgraceful, if instead of belittling it and turning it into a joke and making people so outraged, such as Dr. Pons himself, who changed his citizenship to that of France.
		He did not like being called a fraud by the U.S. scientific establishment.
		So he left the country, okay, and he became a French citizen.
		But the only thing that is an issue, in my opinion, is the time scale of this.
		Now, government is still funding hot fusion.
		Hot fusion, in my opinion, is a complete white elephant.
		It was a noble cause, and it learned a lot about plasma physics, and there are a lot of people still working on hot fusion whom I admire very much.
		Okay, such as Dr. Michael Schaefer from General Atomics on the West Coast.
		He had the guts on national radio to stand up and say a few weeks ago on Ira Flato's show, Science Friday, on NPR, when Rush George was talking about his cold fusion experiments, that this type of experiment, producing helium-4, was worthy of investigation.
		There aren't very many hot fusion scientists who will say things like that.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so what you're saying to me is that the government is putting its money into hot fusion.
		Yes.
		No money is being put into cold fusion.
unidentified		Right.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		But individual people are willing to put their money in.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		And when they find something that really, really works, gangbusters, which we're very close to, then they'll become multi-millionaires, and the government will probably tax them is about what will happen here.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Well, I think this will be an era of virtually free energy.
		People laugh when they say, when you use the term free energy.
		It does sound provocative, but it will be.
		That is the implication of coal fusion.
		The power levels are so, I mean, the energy release per mass of fuel is so great that for all practical purposes, it will be free.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		All right, Doctor, I'm going to stop here for just a brief couple of moments, and then we really need to get some callers who may understand all this stuff better than I do.
		But I understand that there are benefits to the environment, to our pocketbook, a lot of other things.
		We'll talk about it right here on Coast to Coast AM, the Art Bell Show.
		I'm Hilly Rose sitting in.
unidentified		I'm Hilly Rose sitting in.
		The wildcard line to the Kingdom of Nigh is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		That's 1-775-727-1295.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		And Hilly Rose sitting in for Art.
		My email number is hrose at premrad.com.
		And our fax number is 888-226-4430.
		And while we're giving out all these numbers, Dr. Malov, you may or probably should give out your website again because people may not have had a pencil to write it down or something.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, here it is, www.infinite-energy.com.
		And the phone number is 603-228-4516.
		That's here in New Hampshire.
		But there's voicemail and so forth.
		There's a fax number, by the way, 603-224-5975.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		And what will happen if they call this number?
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		They can subscribe to the magazine or argue with you?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Internet magazine, you know, Infinite Energy, $29.95 for six issues a year.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		And the videotape, cold fusion, fire from water, many other educational.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that fax number, 224-58, and I didn't get the last two numbers.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		The fax number is 603-224-5975.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let me get to a caller here, and we'll get more information as the evening goes on.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Let's see.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Where do you want me to go?
		Line.
		Okay.
		Sergeant Jeff in Boston.
		Good morning, Jeff.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Now, a couple of questions to your guest, and they are, are you willing to contact survivalist groups about this idea to get them using this idea based on their need to use this as a way of perpetuating this idea more?
		And the second question is, are you in favor of people taking longer vacations to allow room for faux employment so that oil company workers can find other employment?
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think that's the subject here, but you can certainly go with the first one.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for the call.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, the survivalists, yeah, you know, as I want to emphasize, there is no device right now today, to my knowledge, there may be, but I don't know where it is, okay, that is a, other than, let's say, solar power or wind power or geothermal, that will provide you free energy or virtually free energy.
		Those sources have problems.
		Cold fusion is still in development.
		Now, the beauty of cold fusion is that it's a very intense, concentrated power source, so that when it does get developed into technology, which I hope will be in the next few years, it could happen, you know.
		This, we're talking about power densities in the kilowatts per cubic centimeter range.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		This is a lot of power.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		So that when you have such small sources, something the size of your fist or a gallon jug or whatever could power a house or a car, okay?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		This is very important stuff, but we do not have it operating in such fashion right now.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		In other words, it's in the labs.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		It works in the labs, but it's not on a commercial basis.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Correct, and it did prototype form.
		There are some cases, and they are in dispute.
		Certain of my colleagues will dispute certain performance levels, but that's fine.
		We have our debates within the coal fusion field.
		There are devices that have reached, in my opinion, already, total power output of kilowatts.
		But, you know, they are not regular.
		They are not fully repeatable yet.
		Once they are, and I'm convinced they will become that way in a few years through work, then I think the survivalists indeed will have what they want.
		People will be off the grid completely.
		In any woods, forest, cave, mine shaft that they want to go down, they will have their own power source and it will not pollute.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's talk to Davida in Encino.
unidentified		Hello, Hilly.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		Is it okay to talk about something concerning the shooting in Colorado?
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		No, it really isn't because I have a guest on now.
		Okay, I'm sorry on that.
		Well, let's go to Rick in Seattle.
		Hi, Rick.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Many scientists have reported serious problems reproducing any heat.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they have.
unidentified		And there has been a lot of research into what might be contaminating the palladium or the heat deuterium and what the exact properties or refinement methods are necessary to reproduce the reaction.
		And there haven't been a lot of clear conclusions.
		Why has it been so difficult to get consistent raw materials, and how can scientists be sure that the raw materials they have will replicate cold fusion?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, you brought up a number of very fine points.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		To be answered in 60 seconds.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Indeed, the problems of materials, the purity, the structure, the crystal structure, etc., is a major issue in coal fusion.
		However, there's a way of finessing it.
		For example, very thin films are found to be very good for coal fusion and help get around some of those difficulties.
		So there are many hopes right now in this wonderful free enterprise development of coal fusion, not supported by the government at all, interfered with, in fact, by the government.
		There are many possibilities that these difficulties with materials will be cleared up in the coming several years.
		Let's hope.
		Let's pray.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you, sir.
		Dr. Mellov, once again, we're at the bottom of the hour, so if you'd just relax for a few moments, we'll come right back to you and take a lot more calls.
		A lot of people want to talk to you.
		This is Hilly Rose sitting in for Art Bell on Coast to Coast A.M. Loves her mama, loves Jesus, and America too.
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hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Hillier's in for Arch, and my guest is Dr. Malov, Dr. Eugene Malov, talking about cold fusion tonight.
		And before the hour is out, Doctor, I'm going to ask you to once again, because so many people tune in and tune out for various reasons, I'm going to ask you to go through a simple explanation of how cold fusion works.
		But let's do that a little bit later.
		Right now, I've been sitting here thinking, boy, I don't know whether I'm upset because the federal government could be spending all this money instead of in Bosnia and in Kosovo.
		They could be spending all this money developing this source that could change our lives in such positive ways.
		But the other part of the coin is if the government did do that, you know damn well that they're going to screw it up and make, you know, stand in the way of the long run.
		So maybe it's better that private industry does do this.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I believe so.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		The other thing, I got a question here on a fact from somebody, which looks interesting, and you may not know anything about it.
		This man's in Albuquerque.
		And he says, please ask Dr. Malov if he is familiar with Dennis Lee's over-unity apparatus.
		I don't understand this.
		I cite a cold fusion type.
		Mr. Lee claims that in 1999, his company will install 1 million of these for free in homes across the nation.
		Do you know about this?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've heard of Dennis Lee, and he does go around the country promoting the idea of his various technologies.
		I have not investigated them personally, so I don't wish to comment on them.
		I am a bit unhappy with what I've heard so far, but I'm willing to give him at least some breathing room.
		I mean, if he has a device that we can test at our new energy research labs here in Bow, I would be delighted to receive it, and I would be delighted to write up a report for anyone to see that says this device, which he claims are going to be installed in millions of homes, is real.
		Okay, let's get it tested.
		But I've heard, the negative that I have heard about Dennis Lee is that he promises things and doesn't deliver them when he says he's going to.
		So I'm willing to cut him some slack, but I have not been happy so far with what I've heard.
		That's about all I can say.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's good.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		You mentioned Bow, and people sort of wondering what that is.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Bow is a town in New Hampshire right near the capital, Concord.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		The live-free or die state.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's your laboratory.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		We have a publishing office in the town of Bow, which is right near the capital, and we also have a new energy research lab where we do test devices, cold fusion and otherwise, and we try to come to conclusions as to whether they are real, producing excess energy, not producing excess energy, having increased efficiency, etc.
		We have found some devices, to our dismay, that we were originally very enthusiastic about, and then published data suggesting that they were not as good as we had thought, or not anything.
		So, you know, we try our very best to maintain integrity.
		I mean, that's what we stand for.
		If you don't have integrity intellectually, then you have nothing.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, what is the end product of what you're trying to do?
		And I mean it in this sense.
		You say that, yes, it's a technology whose time hasn't yet come.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		No, the time has come.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		But it's not, well, it isn't to perfection yet.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		No, it's come in the sense that, okay, the transistor was announced in 1947 at Bell Labs, and then there were some years of development and all kinds of problems producing it and using it and so forth.
		It's at the state of the early development of the transistor, except we have a war against the transistor.
		We have a war against coal fusion by people making Fun of it.
		So that clearly gets in the way of open-minded consideration, discussion at scientific meetings, and so forth.
		For example, we had a meeting scheduled, and fortunately it's been rescheduled, called Conference on Future Energy.
		And this meeting will be held at the Holiday Inn in Bethesda, Maryland on April 28th, 29th, and May 1st.
		But it was originally going to be at the State Department, the U.S. State Department.
		And then a bigoted scientist there found out about this meeting that someone else had arranged, and he managed to get it kicked out.
		It was just to be an open-minded discussion of some of these technologies.
		The State Department was not ratifying the technologies, but they could not have this in the house of the sacred, bigoted physicist, and he is now going to be investigated, thankfully, by those who did not appreciate the fact that he pulled strings to have a scientific meeting moved.
		I don't know how we got on that topic.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, I'm wondering whether you're going to get sued here.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		No, we have.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It's on record.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		No, your comments, your colorful comments, I think, could get you in trouble, Dr. Carl.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		But I will say to you, he has colorful comments to us, so we're right for tapping.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		I'm only saying to you that anybody with a closed mind that says, no, we can't discuss it, that's ridiculous.
		But what I was ultimately trying to get at is you've named all these various commercial companies that are trying to perfect this.
		I realize you're the publisher of the magazine, but you've got your own web.
		Are you in the race?
		Are you trying to get something going on?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		We have, okay, we do not, I'll tell you what we aspire to do.
		We aspire to tell the truth about coal fusion and make coal fusion happen.
		Okay?
		We are not the original inventors of the coal fusion process.
		We try to examine things and we are all for what we would call demonstration devices.
		Indeed, when we have our hands on very reliable demonstrations that can be sold to the public as illustrations of the cold fusion or related processes, we will do that.
		In fact, we do sell one such unit now, but we only offer it in terms of a research technology.
		It's called a plasma electrolysis device that produces some very interesting anomalous effects, we believe, and we do sell that for research purposes.
		When we see a cell that will produce reliably excess energy that we can guarantee, okay, then we will sell that.
		And we do believe that we are approaching within, let's say, six months or so, or perhaps less, such cells that could be sold to the public so that they will believe this phenomenon, scientists will believe it, and instead of accepting propaganda by government scientists and academicians, they will see it for themselves and act accordingly.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Heavy water.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Can I go to the drugstore and buy some?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Not the drugstore, but a chemical supply house.
		We'll easily provide you with heavy water.
		Heavy water is part of all water.
		It's very abundant on Earth.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's go to Jean in Seattle.
		Good morning, Gene.
unidentified		Hello.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Are you there, Gene?
		Okay.
		Well, we'll just have to go elsewhere then and go to Joanne in Sarasota, Florida.
		Good morning, Joanne.
unidentified		Dr. Millow, I find this most interesting.
		I used to work for Arabian American Oil Company.
		You know who they are.
		And I used to listen to the Tesla Society when they were on the radio, and I have two questions.
		Wasn't there a man that ran a car on water?
		I thought I heard him on that program.
		And the second question is, didn't the Caterpillar Company buy a patent on this?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
		First of all, no one to my knowledge has run a car on water.
		By the way, cars can be propelled by hydrogen gas.
		Ordinary hydrogen gas, obviously, combusts, okay, and produces water.
		You combine hydrogen with oxygen, you burn it, and it becomes water.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		So it is possible to break down water and get the hydrogen out of it and run a car on hydrogen.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		If that is what you mean by running a car on water, that has definitely been done.
		But it takes more energy to produce that hydrogen than the hydrogen will give you back.
		So you have to make that hydrogen the power of the car by something else.
		There was a man by the name of Stanley Meyer, and I did visit his lab some years ago.
		He had a dune buggy, which he claimed worked, that was powered by water.
		But my own assessment of Meyer was, and he now is dead, is that he was a very paranoid individual, and he did not have what he said he had.
		But frankly, it is impossible to tell whether he had what he said he had.
		He was acting in such a strange way.
		But may he rest in peace nonetheless.
		So we don't have water-powered cars yet, but we will.
		Let me tell you what Dr. Randall Mills said in issue 17 of Infinite Energy magazine, a lengthy interview.
		He's with Blacklight Power Corporation.
		He doesn't believe the mainstream explanation of coal fusion.
		But he said, according to his theory of how it works, one tank of water, that is 20 gallons, let's say, in a car, would run that car, 200 horsepower engine car, would run that car 100,000 miles, according to his estimate of how much energy is in water.
		Now that's a lot, okay?
		Cold fusion scientists who are more mainstream would say that a single gallon of heavy water extracted from water would run a car 55 million miles.
		But between 55 million and 100,000, I could care less.
		The energy is free, and that's all that matters when it's developed.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you had another question, Joanna?
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
		The Caterpillar Company, I heard this.
		I thought.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Let me address the Caterpillar thing.
		A man by the name of Winnerman in the state of Nevada has a fuel called A55.
		It is literally 55% water, and the 45% is other fossil fuel like naphtha or diesel oil, what have you, and he can make a milky white solution of this water that can be burned.
		So there is, in effect, a fuel that is largely water that can be burned.
		But it doesn't, to my understanding, from colleagues that I talked to at a company in Cambridge called Quantum Energy Technologies, an ex-MIT professor, Keith Johnson, who is in that company, is working on technologies like that that may be superior.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we are having to move along here, so we'll come back and take more calls and get an explanation of heavy water, sorry, cold fusion, relates to heavy water.
		From Dr. Eugene Malov in just a moment.
		Sitting in for Art Bell, I am Hilly Rose.
		The End Hilly Rose in for Art Bell.
		My guest tonight is Dr. Eugene Malov.
		And Doctor, you do such a good job in telling these stories.
		I just wondered if you could give me a reader's digest version of how cold fusion works.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, if I could tell you exactly how it works, I'd be on my way to Stockholm to win a Nobel Prize.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		We don't really know how it works, but we can give you some idea of how people think it works.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		We know that it works, okay?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		And by the way, there are many things that work that we don't understand.
		Even modern physics, which knows that high-temperature superconductivity works, no one is disputing that.
		It is highly reproducible.
		They are still debating how that works.
		So cold fusion relates to processes that happen when you have hydrogen in contact with metal.
		And what happens there might be something like this.
		In the case where helium is produced, something happens to allow nuclear fusion of the heavy hydrogens, heavy hydrogen nuclei, to form this helium.
		But it comes out as helium, not as deadly radiation or highly energetic particles that would kill you.
		It comes out in a benign way.
		You might say it's a solid-state fusion reaction.
		That's one of the ways that we think cold fusion works.
		The other way is by changes to the very atoms of the metal, such as what we would call transmutation, which sounds an awful lot like alchemy.
		And in fact, it is a bit like modern alchemy.
		We have now seen in the metals of some cold fusion cells, such as the palladium, the nickel, the gold, what have you, we have seen new elements appear that look like other elements inside the metal are splitting, fissioning.
		You might call it cold fission in a way.
		Other people like Mills and Dr. Keith Johnson, formerly of MIT, have other theories to explain cold fusion, which have to do with exotic effects occurring in the electrons of these atoms in the metal.
		So we really are babes in the ocean, just wading into this cosmic ocean and trying to figure out what this is.
		We know it's real, and we know that it occurs in a variety of systems, and it is very powerful.
		That's the key point.
		It is not like ordinary chemical combustion.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Right, but I'm confused.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		I keep hearing you talk about the metal, but you haven't said anything about water.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, the hydrogen in water, okay, to simplify it really to its most basic essence, the hydrogen in water, water is H2O, two hydrogens, one oxygen.
		Or if it's heavy hydrogen, it's two heavy hydrogens plus oxygen, D2O.
		That hydrogen is the fuel, so to speak, we believe, of the cold fusion reaction.
		But it's not the kind of reaction that you get by just burning the hydrogen, because that's a very weak reaction.
		Sure, it powers the space shuttle, but it wouldn't power the space shuttle to the nearest stars.
		What we're talking about in cold fusion is a reaction that is thousands to millions of times more powerful than ordinary chemical energy.
		That's what we're talking about.
		Something immensely powerful, still of unknown explanation, but of characteristics already reported in the literature that shows that this hydrogen is undergoing some kind of new reaction previously unknown to modern to science that is very, very important.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's go to Jeff in Birmingham.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Jeff.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I was reading in the May, I believe it's May 1998, Journal of Physical Chemistry B about graphite nanofibers that had a great affinity for hydrogen.
		This was on the Learning Channel.
		Actually, and this was developed by Terry Baker of Northeastern University.
		And I can't help but wonder if something like that could be used to make a cheater fuel cell, and you could actually perhaps make a feedback loop as it produced the water.
		It also produced electricity.
		And you could maybe use, you know, the hotter it gets, the hotter it gets.
		And besides you with a fuel cell, that would also be very great for spacecraft with that immense affinity to hydrogen.
		From my understanding, oxygen just along for the ride and water.
		If you could have a container that could hold a vast amount of just hydrogen by itself, because from what I understand, this small container, it can hold more just an empty one by itself could, and it doesn't have to have the super low temperatures that oftentimes hydrogen has to have, but it does require high pressure, and all you have to do is release it.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, you put in, my good friend, you've put in a lot of thoughts here.
		And I just want to say that what you're talking about is an interesting effect that I've heard about, but it appears to me that you're talking still about conventional chemical energy, even though stored in a very unusual way in small carbon tubes or something that are nanotubes.
		But I can't emphasize this point enough about the difference between chemical energy and nuclear-like energy.
unidentified		My point was it might be a good repository.
		it might help cold fusion research perhaps in different ways.
		And one last question, if I may.
		Are you the same individual who wrote the Starflight Handbook?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I did, yes indeed.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		You're the author of the Starflight Handbook, I confess.
unidentified		And that is a nice piece of work.
unidentified		Now I hope that you release perhaps a future updated version on this.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		And just to me, the idea of a vast source of power that could help take us to the stars is something that I just find amazing.
		But do see if you can't look up.
		I forgot what week, I think it was a weekly edition.
		It was the May 1998 Journal of the Journal of Physical Chemistry B. And something like that.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Well, my friend, I'm out of time here.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for the coming.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I was just thinking, Dr. Malov, somebody said to me that no scientist can really explain electricity.
		Is that right?
unidentified		Well, no, that is about it.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		No, you know, what our understanding of electricity is simply this, in wires, for example.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		In 30 seconds.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It's just electrons flowing in a wire.
		And they're flowing because something such as a battery or a generator is producing the flow of electrons in wires.
		What electrons are, though, is a matter of contention.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		All right, Dr. Eugene Malov, my guest, will learn a few more things in the next hour we never knew before.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		I am Hilly Rose sitting in for Art Bell on Coast to Coast.
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		Well, the sun came from that bed and the steeple hour.
		I reached my bed.
		I saw you sleepy dreaming.
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		Her strong, wondering what only I could find in you.
		A billion people falling through the clouds.
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hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Hillary Rose in for Arts.
		My guest is Dr. Eugene Malo.
		The subject is cold fusion.
		And I want to remind you that our fax number is 888-226-4430.
		And my email number is hrose at comrad.com.
		Tomorrow night on the program, we'll be talking about Feng Shui.
		That's the way it's pronounced, I'm not sure, with Richard Webster, who has written seven books on the subject.
		So lots to talk about.
		Something that definitely could change your life.
		As coal fusion could change your life if they can just get it to a point where it's commercially viable.
		That's probably a point I've been meaning to ask you, Dr. Malov.
		And by the way, I should tell people that Dr. Malov is the editor-in-chief and publisher of the Infinite Energy magazine and has his own lab in New Hampshire and a lot of other good things.
		But the question here, and it just went clearly out of my mind, oh, commercially viable.
		That's the point.
		When they do this, can it really be commercially viable?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		You see, we have to adopt a new idea.
		You see, currently the idea of energy in our civilization is that you pay for it.
		You go to the gasoline station and you put it in your car and you pay for it.
		You have a meter on your house metering electricity or metering natural gas coming in or you pay the oil delivery truck, whatever.
		Or you buy wood.
		Now, in the cold fusion age, cold fusion new energy age, you're going to pay for the devices that produce the energy.
		You're not going to have free devices, okay?
		The devices that they install in your home, that you will buy from Sears or Kmart or Walmart or any place, are going to cost some money.
		I wouldn't expect them, by the way, to cost a lot of money any more than, let's say, a normal oil burner.
		Replace the oil burner for a few thousand dollars, put your coal fusion or new energy apparatus in, and you are detached from continual payments of oil.
		Now, there might be certain elements in there, certain catalysts, certain other things that might need to be replaced, but the basic fuel charge, so to speak, would essentially be zero.
		I mean, if we're talking about water or even heavy water, the power, the ability of that fuel, so to speak, to produce energy is so immense that for all practical purposes, it's zero cost.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		So it's, I realize it's not comparable, but it's sort of like a water softener in your home.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Once you buy it, there it is.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, power, for example.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		Solar power is a perfect paradigm for that.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		You put solar cells on your roof.
		They generate electricity, right?
		And you've paid for them once.
		You're not continuing to pay for the sun's rays.
		Okay?
		Now, the disadvantage of solar power is you have to have large arrays.
		The sun doesn't shine all the time.
		Yes, you can store the energy up.
		There are cloudy days, there are snowy days, etc., etc.
		Coal fusion will be oblivious to cloudy days, nighttime, whatsoever.
		And they will also be small.
		So you will be able to have a coal fusion-powered car.
		It is very difficult to have a solar-powered car, although they have been built.
		They are very light and flimsy.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Well, somebody's going to have to figure a way to make money on this.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they will.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		They're probably going to have you go to the drugstore to buy the heavy water for them.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, the government, I'm convinced, will, you know, they have a fuel tax now, right?
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		So when the coal fusion age breaks out, as I expect it to, they will find a way to tax the energy use.
		I hope we prevent them from doing that, and I suspect we will in a more libertarian age, which I also hope will break out, we will have no government payments for taxes on our energy use.
		But they will try to find a way to tax it, believe me.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's got to be.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Of course, this will now do away with energy lines and all this other visual pollution.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Visual pollution of power lines all over the place, high-tension lines, and the, by the way, in the Northeast here and in Canada and so forth, when we have these ice storms, we do have very significant outages, and that will be eliminated when central power stations are a thing of the past, and they will be.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		And we're not polluting the skies as we're doing now.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		The carbon dioxide pollution and fine particles, pollution from the burning of coal and oil, all this will be a thing of the past, and people will look back on this much as we now look upon the horse and buggy age with somewhat amazement, that there are actually cities clogged with horses putting manure all over the place.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		And this will, as I say, it will be a bygone era.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that there's going to be an improvement in the ozone hull?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		You know, I'm not an expert on the ozone hull.
		I've heard a lot of negative comment about that theory of the ozone hull.
		That is all the, it is not all that it's cracked up to be.
		There are some disputes about exactly what is causing the ozone.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		In my view, it's Mother Nature, but you go ahead.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		Whatever it is.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		You know, any chemicals, you know, we actually might, here's the opposite side of the coin.
		We currently do produce carbon dioxide in our industrial civilization.
		We are adding to the natural carbon dioxide background, which those who fear that the sky is falling say is heating and warming the Earth excessively, and we have global warming.
		But you know, there are cycles having to do with other things as far as the Earth's orbit and so forth that periodically bring about ice ages.
		And there might come a time when We will wish to have more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere to stave off an ice age.
		So if we have unlimited energy, we certainly can produce as much carbon dioxide as we want and stave off an ice age.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		That's a pretty good reason for doing this.
		All right, Dr. Eugene Malov is the guest, and we'll take more of your calls right after these amazing words.
		I'm Hillary Rose, in for Hart Bell on Coast to Coast Air.
unidentified		I'm Hillary Rose, in for the last few years.
		Call Art Bell on the first-time caller line at 1-775-727-1222.
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		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Eugene Malov, and Bob is in Detroit.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Bob.
unidentified		Hi.
		I wonder if I might ask the doctor, Dr. Malov, I've been following Code Fusion for a while.
		Code Fusion.
		Code Fusion, I'm sorry.
		And I visited your website last night.
		I saw that you were going to be a scheduled guest.
		And my question for you is this.
		Can you possibly give an idea where the average person might be able to obtain some of the materials required for these experiments, such as the platinum, the palladium, and the nickel, and so forth?
		And maybe if you could describe a basic apparatus.
		I saw that calcium carbonate was an electrolyte.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, potassium carbonate is an.
unidentified		That's one of them.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		But let me make it very simple, Bill.
		We don't want to turn this into an amateur scientist hour, but certainly Infinite Energy Magazine publishes a lot of those nearly hands-on, do-it-yourself sort of things.
		But let's talk about what we call light water cells.
		In other words, a cell that does not use heavy water, so you don't have to buy the heavy water.
		Heavy water is not incredibly expensive.
		A kilogram of it, a liter, will be about, say, $350, $400.
		But you can do a lot of cold fusion experiments with that.
		But you'd rather use just ordinary water, very clean water, distilled water, and you put in this electrolyte called potassium carbonate.
		It's just a chemical, a simple chemical that can be purchased from a chemical supply house.
unidentified		What's another electrolyte?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's lithium sulfate, etc.
		You know, we don't want to get too technical, as I say, but all you do is you pass a direct current between the anode with DC, which is the positive electrode, and the cathode, the negative one, which would be nickel, let's say.
		But, you know, you cannot, the point of a cold fusion experiment is to find out if there's excess heat there.
		This method of measuring the excess heat is the key thing to do, and not to make mistakes as far as the various mistakes that can be made in evaluating the heat of the cell.
		So this is not a trivial experiment.
		It will become trivial, and eventually there will be cathodes supplied by supply houses that will, upon immersion in water and potassium carbonate, will produce the excess heat effect, and any amateur scientist will be able to do it.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Where can you get palladium is the question?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there are various supply houses.
		You know, you can look up in any scientific magazine or websites and say, you know, chemicals.
		You can buy palladium.
		You can buy, of course, it's a precious metal.
		It is expensive.
		Nickel is much cheaper.
		You can buy potassium carbonate.
		You can buy heavy water.
		There are vendors all over the place.
		The materials for cold fusion, that is the basic materials, are not rare and hard to find.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's move along here to Greg in Rhinelander, Wisconsin.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Greg.
unidentified		Hi, great show today.
		Anyway, I just have a question.
		I've heard stories that possibly Hitler was experimenting with cold fusion back during World War II.
		I was wondering if that was a myth or is there some truth to that?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Don't know about that at all.
		I apologize.
		That is one story I have not heard.
		But there is a very definite historical precedent for cold fusion.
		In 1926, two scientists by the name of Paneth and Peters conducted experiments which appeared to do something like cold fusion, but it produced helium.
		But those experiments, they rejected their own data.
		Then a gentleman by the name of Tandberg in Sweden got the idea much closer to Pons and Fleischmann for that age and was doing some experiments.
		But there was really nothing, as far as I know, prior to the Pons-Fleischmann announcement in 1989, and of course they were working on this themselves privately from about 1985 onward.
		There wasn't really anything like what we've had since 1989, where the phenomenon really has been validated, difficult as it has been at times to get full reproducibility.
		We now are in an age where there are plenty of technical papers published on this in both peer-reviewed and non-peer-reviewed journals so that we know the phenomenon is real.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you much.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Malov, it occurs to me that if this thing becomes viable, that we could go clear out to the end of our universe.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's be clear on something.
		When I wrote the Starflight Handbook back in 1989, it's a John Wiley book, I and Greg Matloff, Who is another engineer?
		We speculated about the various propulsion systems that would take us to the stars.
		And at the time, it was just the beginning of the coal fusion age.
		We didn't really talk about it in that book.
		But you see, to go to the stars, you need some kind of propulsion system, your rocket.
		If you are using a rocket, you need fuel.
		And you need also, we believe, something to eject out of the back of the rocket, some mass.
		So even if you have a very high energy fuel that is energy source, like cold fusion, you still would need, to power a rocket, you would need propellant that shoots out the back of the rocket at high speed.
		And so rockets are limited.
		It is true, however, that cold fusion devices will radically alter spaceflight, at least in our solar system.
		But as far as getting us to the stars, even cold fusion is not particularly powerful enough to do what we really want to do.
		And there are other systems that I can imagine that would be better than cold fusion.
		But let's not get into an interstellar flight discussion.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, then let's take a brief pause here at the bottom of the hour.
		And we will come back and take more of your phone calls for Dr. Eugene Malov talking about Cold Fusion.
		Guest tomorrow night, Richard Webster on Heng Shui.
		I am Hilly Rose, sitting in for Art Bell on Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		I'm gonna feel good today I'm gonna feel good today I'm gonna feel good today All over the world, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the premier radio network.
		So I'll set a fall one day to believe.
		Tell me, tell me, tell me lies.
		Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		International callers may reach Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye by first dialing the access code for your part of the world.
		Then, 800-893-0903.
		That's 800-893-0903.
		Now, here again is Art Bell.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Here's sitting in.
		My guest in this hour is Dr. Eugene Malov, editor-in-chief of the magazine Infinite Energy.
		And also, he has written any number of books on this area of cold diffusion.
		Before we go back to calls, Doctor, I just wondered, at one time you say that there are an awful lot of scientists here in the United States and around the world for that matter, who are members of the Flat Earth Society.
		And I sort of wondered, now you tell us that we're right on the brink of making this thing work, has the members, the number of the people in the cold flat Earth Society, are they growing?
		Are they diminishing?
		Are they staying the same?
		In other words, I realize it's very tough and they have interests to protect themselves, but do you see any change in the scientific community?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		In a way, yes.
		I think what's happening, first of all, a lot of scientists coming and seeing Infinite Energy magazine and other publications relating to coal fusion and seeing news about coal fusion and radio programs, TV programs, videos, movies, what have you.
		There's a general growing awareness in the part of the open-minded fraction of the scientific culture that there is something here.
		However, I would say that the people who've been critics, who are closed-minded almost from day one, they're getting rather louder in a way.
		They are, in a sense, seeing things that they don't like.
		They are seeing the fact that it is not going away.
		They predicted that it would die.
		They predicted that the scientists working on it would find that they were making terrible mistakes.
		Well, these scientists have not found that they were making terrible mistakes.
		Even though these antagonists of coal fusion believe they're making mistakes, these scientists have checked themselves very carefully and are finding very important new things.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		And this very much upsets them.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		And so they get nastier, I think, as time goes on.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's always the case, isn't it, when you're Yep.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Are you trying to tell us, Doctor, that it's round?
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Is that what you're trying to say?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the world is round.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		No, how disappointing.
		I have other people on the program who have said that the elite knew about this, and they set Columbus off even so, just to find this route to the West Indies.
		But he knew when he went out that the world was not flat.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		By the way, that is, my colleague Jed Rothwell, who is a contributing editor to our magazine, has written something about that.
		It is not often realized that actually the elite of the time of Columbus, it was fairly common knowledge that the Earth was round.
		Unlike what we've been told in school, oh, they thought it was flat.
		Well, a lot of people might have thought it was flat, but the elite from Greek times onward, due to various astronomical observations and so forth, believed the world was round.
		They didn't know how big it was exactly.
		Some suspected it.
		But there get to be all these historical myths.
		And so we just accept them as commonplace.
		We have to be a little careful on that.
		For another thing, you know, the Wright brothers mentioned earlier in the program, comparing it to coal fusion and how they were denied for years.
		Most people are taught in school, oh, the Wright brothers flew in 1903, and one then has the impression there was a big party for them, and they were given a ticker tape parade in Wall Street, far from it.
		For five years, as we mentioned, they were not recognized.
		But these very important historical facts about what happened as near as 100 years ago are completely obscured.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you, you can't believe anybody, can you?
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Can't believe your teachers who can't.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, please believe me, though, at least.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		And I just normally don't push the guess, but you don't get very commercial here, and I am very excited about your new videotape called Fire from Water.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Cool Fusion Fire from Water.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Just give us the web address here and we'll move on.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It's www.infinite-energy.com.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		And if you really want to understand this subject and understand all of the conflict that is going on, they've been very, very upfront and honest about it in this production, I wanted to say.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I must mention another movie that's about to come out that I worked on a little bit with Professor Keith Johnson of MIT.
		He's no longer at MIT, but he's involved in the coal fusion field.
		And Professor Johnson of MIT has produced a movie called Breaking Symmetry.
		Now, this is not a scientific documentary, the way coal fusion fire from water is.
		But on May 26th, in Cambridge, at the Cambridge Marriott Hotel, for anyone who wants to be there in the evening, both Keith Johnson's movie, Breaking Symmetry, which is a fictional account that touches closely on the reality of what happened at MIE, that will be shown in the Marriott Hotel Ballroom, and Cold Fusion Fire from Water will be shown.
		So the combination of these two films together will be quite powerful, I expect.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		By the way, speaking of films, you were the technical advisor on The Saint.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		The one with Stern Val Kilmer.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		And that is all about cold fusion, too, isn't it?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
		But of course, what's portrayed in The Saint is that there is this process called cold fusion, which some professor, Elizabeth Hsu character in the movie, she has it and this theft and counter theft and all this other business going on.
		But it presents it as a fiction.
		Of course, it was a fiction.
		The story line was a fiction.
		But the reality is that it was handled technically well, thanks to the fact that even though the scriptwriters did a great job on the film, there were some errors, and I was allowed to be the technical advisor to correct some of the mistakes that crept in.
		And so I'm proud that some of the very lines that Elizabeth Hsu uttered in the movie about 55 million miles on a gallon of heavy water, these are directly from our input.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Good.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's talk to Sid in New Brownfeld, is it, Texas?
unidentified		New Brownfeld.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Brownfeld.
		Okay, go ahead.
		John here.
unidentified		Yeah, I'd like to make an announcement.
		It's not about cold fusion, but we're talking here about free energy.
		And I want to tell you of the discovery that I've made.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		You have made a discovery.
unidentified		I have designed with a new science a torque generator.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		All the work that we do on this Earth or universe, all the work is done by the torque.
unidentified		Energy does not have to enter into our work equation.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		My good friend, could you tell me, very simple, let's not get into equations and theories.
		Just tell me, if you will, in a very simple sentence or two, what the device is that you have.
		What does it do?
unidentified		What is its input and what is its output?
		Well, there's no input and there can be an input.
		There's a thousand ways in building.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Have you built it?
unidentified		Yes, I've built it and I've got it to demonstrate.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, come up here to Bowen, New Hampshire, to New Energy Research Labs, whichever it is you have.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		We will test it.
unidentified		I cannot do that.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Why not?
unidentified		I'm 81 years old.
		I've had the past four months.
		I've got emphysema on only 16% of my lungs.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's just indicate here that if you want to contact Dr. Malov, you send him some email and the phone number is 603-228-4516.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Glad to try to help you out.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you.
		It's amazing to me how many people think they have discovered the ultimate whatever, and they may have.
		That's probably where we all get into trouble is we discount things.
		And what you have said makes a lot of sense, and that is something.
		Yeah, right, that's all.
		And you're not even from the show me state.
		I tell you.
		Okay.
		We will go to tell me.
		Tell me, tell me, tell me.
		Oh, okay.
		We'll go to Adam in Hartford, Connecticut.
		Hi, Adam.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Haley.
		This is Adam.
		Got you.
		From Hartford.
		I have a question to Dr. Eugene.
		I mean, this would, this cold fusion commercially would bring a revolution to the whole Blue Wheel.
		That's correct.
		And, you know, energy itself would be pollution.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Energy itself would be pollution?
unidentified		Yes.
		Well, because if I had a lake, for instance, I lived on that lake, I would have all the energy of the fossil fuel in the world, for instance, available.
		You would.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		That's why I think you are absolutely correct, Adam.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Things that would in the past have been absolutely impossible will become possible.
		Much as with the internet today and telephones and so forth, we can do things today that were absolutely unthinkable, not to mention 100 years ago, even 20 years ago.
		We can stay, I am now in contact with my little laptop computer that I can take anywhere I want with hundreds of people, thousands of people.
		This is an impossibility by previous technologies.
		Similarly, when we have coal fusion power, we're going to be able to do things that couldn't be done before.
		For example, you could have, if you had a coal fusion-powered airplane, as an example, and it were just producing tremendous heat and thrust in jet engines, but there was no consumption of fuel, that airplane could stay aloft almost indefinitely.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		Right?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		So you could have platforms flying around virtual little countries flying all over the planet with, as far as the fuel goes, no need to refuel.
unidentified		Yes, but this would bring a revolution.
		It would.
		Just like the internet you mentioned.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
unidentified		I mean, moral repercussions.
		Yes.
		A whole set.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		A whole process.
		But isn't that great?
		Don't you want progress here?
		That's the important thing.
		All right, Doctor, we're going to take a brief pause, as we do in radio, and we'll come back and take more questions for you.
		Dr. Eugene Mallow, my guest.
		This is Hilly Rose, sitting in for Art Bell on Coast to Coast A. Hilly Rose in for Art Bell.
		Dr. Eugene Mallow is my guest.
		And Brian is in Virginia, Minnesota.
		Is that right, Brian?
unidentified		Yes, it is.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Where is Virginia?
unidentified		Northern Minnesota, north of Duluth.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, up toward the Canadian border.
unidentified		Yeah.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Go ahead.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air.
unidentified		All righty.
		I've got this Associated Press article January 26, 1997 from Avon, Minnesota, the dateline is.
		And it reads, an 88-year-old retired entrepreneur received notice that his brainchild, a high-efficiency hydraulic engine that would require no liquid fuel to operate, has a patent penny.
		The notice is from the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.
		Yes.
		And I'm wondering if Mr. Malaw's magazine has done any study on this.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		No, sir, don't know of it, but if you'll kindly send me, vaccinate, send me what have you, the clip, I will look into it and I would get back to you on that.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		The man's name is Raymond Moonen.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, send him the information and he'll look into it.
		We don't want any more about it now.
		Thank you.
		Let's go to, let's see, we go to Jim in Anchorage, Alaska.
		Hi, Jim.
unidentified		Hello, Hilly.
unidentified		How are you?
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		I'm well.
unidentified		Dr. Mayov, I have two things.
unidentified		Two of the problems in your book and in others that seem to be consistent was the difficulties with they described it as melt purity.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		One other one that few had the opportunity to deal with.
		At the time that I was reading your book, I was reading...
		Big Bard?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		The book Fire from Ice?
unidentified		Yes, but I was reading Williams' biography of Faraday.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Faraday, yes.
unidentified		And he was an electrochemist, and he had a great deal of work that he did with electrolysis, and he also had the same problem with the electrodes not working properly.
		And he was using 110% solution of water and sulfuric acid.
		Specific gravity was 110%, or 110, I guess.
		And what he was able to do, he found that the electrodes, when they formed large bubbles, would not work.
		And what he was able to do with this was reverse a polarity until the electrodes formed tiny bubbles film-like over the surface.
		And then his units would work fine.
		And he worked them consistently and even had them do a runaway after he disconnected the power source.
		When you say a runaway, what kind of runaway?
		Runaway that they would go to ignition.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Ignition?
unidentified		Ignition, yes.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		What would they ignite?
unidentified		That was what I wanted to ask you is what they would ignite and how you would control a situation like that.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not clear exactly what you're discussing.
		I know Michael Faraday was definitely one of the fathers of electrochemistry.
		And he, I'm not familiar with all his writings, of course.
		I'm not a student of his.
		The study of history of his developments is a very prominent scientist, a very open-minded scientist, who, by the way, had no academic credentials.
		But the I don't know what you're describing here.
		I presume you're talking about the breakdown of water to produce hydrogen and oxygen, among other things.
		But this business of ignition or runaway is unclear to me.
		Again, if you have specific information about something that he observed that was like a runaway, whatever that runaway is, I'd like to be sent that information.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Let's move along here and talk to Diane, who's in College Station, Texas.
		Good morning, Diane.
unidentified		Hello, how are you?
		Well.
		Well, Dr. Malov knows where I'm coming from, so he might not know what I'm going to talk about, but I'm sure he can tell who I'm going to talk about.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Are you going to talk about the famous?
unidentified		Dr. Bacchus.
		I work for Dr. Bacchus.
		I'm an assistant of his.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		You're an assistant?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and I hope you think he's a great man.
unidentified		Oh, he's a great man.
unidentified		He just had bypass surgery for the second time and has come through wonderfully.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I didn't know that.
unidentified		He's back working again.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
		I didn't know he was having bypass surgery.
		Of course, Dr. Smith was just aware of that.
unidentified		He's actually, I think, one of 50 people who've actually had it done twice.
		Uh-huh.
		And I just want to bring up the fact.
		He was involved with cold fusion early on, as you know.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		He still is.
unidentified		And he was almost destroyed because of it here at Texas.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		In what way, Diane?
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		How was he destroyed?
unidentified		Well, what happened was he announced his announcement of, He had a grad student who was working on similarly.
unidentified		And their announcement on their cold fusion results came directly after the Utah announcement.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		And there was an entire, over 30 members of the Texas A ⁇ M chemistry department wrote a letter to the president asking him basically to be removed because he was doing, quote, you know, voodoo science.
		They started calling him an alchemist.
		They tried to embarrass him.
		I mean, not only in the letters to the local paper, but in the letters to the university paper.
		And he really spent two years just trying to stay afloat.
		I mean, his legal costs were enormous.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I'm very familiar with that.
		And by the way, that's part of obviously not the full story, but a significant portion of coal fusion fire from water goes into Marcus's difficulties with the university.
		And of course, he triumphed in the end.
		He was fully absolved.
		But of course, the people there at Texas A ⁇ M and in the chemistry department and elsewhere who did not want this new science being experimented with, the Flat Earth Society people, these people still are unrepentant.
		I've talked to some of them.
		I've interviewed them.
		I have their precious words on tape, and we will eventually publish the full record of this.
unidentified		Yeah, I was going to ask you just if you can envision a time when he would be publicly exonerated.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		You know, sometimes the people who lose a scientific war never really admit that they were wrong.
		They will claim in the future that they knew it all along, and they will try to marginalize and devalue the contributions of those who were in the field all along, such as Professor Bockris.
		Professor John Bockris is one of the greatest electrochemists in the world, and he happens to be, in my estimation, one of the greatest scientists.
		You know, he stood up for measurements that showed anomalous behavior, namely the tritium, which is a signature of coal fusion, one of the early signatures that was clearly an indication.
		This is a form of hydrogen that was clearly present.
		And Gary Taubes, the so-called science journalist, who claimed that this was fraud, okay, or that it was not fraud by Bochris, but adulteration of experiments by an ambitious graduate student.
		This was one of the most outrageous claims, and it continues to be repeated, even though full exoneration occurred in the case of Bochris, and absolute impossibility of adulteration to produce the effects that were seen has now been proved.
		But this propaganda that was launched in 1990 still continues like a bad odor and continues to be mentioned by journalists and others who feel that they want to beat up on coal fusion.
unidentified		You know, the one slight that they continue to give him, which I find reprehensible, is the fact that, you know, he was a distinguished professor.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm running out of time here, Diane.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		I've got 10 seconds.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Is that they will not give him the Professor Emeritus title.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, he can live without that.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you.
		And unfortunately, I can't live without the station breaks here.
		So Dr. Mello will come back and do the final hour in, oh, just a few minutes here.
		In for Art Bell on Coast to Coast AM, I am Hilly Rhodes.
unidentified		And I'll keep this world from dragging me down.
		Gonna stand out great.
		Sailing away from the crest of a wave, looks like magic.
		Oh, rolling and riding and flipping and sliding, it's magic.
		You and the species I, you just need.
		Higher and higher, baby.
		It's all they ever think.
		The Wild Card line to the Wild Card.
		The Kingdom of Night is open at 1775-727-1295.
		That's 1775-727-1295.
		This is Coaster, Coast Again, with Mark Bell on the Premier Radio Network.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Hello, this is Kitty Men, and my guest is Dr. Eugene F. Malov, editor-in-chief of Infinite Energy magazine.
		We're talking about cold fusion.
		And Doctor, maybe I'm naive here, or maybe there's something I don't understand.
		Twice it has come up in the program about being alchemists, and what's the problem with turning lead into gold?
		What I mean by that is, is there something wrong with being an alchemist?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, certainly there is in the cold fusion war.
		In fact, the term alchemy has been used by the critics to disparage coal fusion.
		Alchemy, as many of your listeners know, was the ancient science or mystical endeavor that tried to produce the gold from lead, I'm sorry, or gold from base metals using philosopher's stone.
		There were other mystical qualities such as immortality and other things blended into alchemy.
		There are many, many books written about alchemy.
		But interestingly, Some of the great scientists that we ascribe to our classical era, like Isaac Newton and Robert Boyle and others, were alchemists themselves.
		They dabbled or actually dealt with alchemy in a hands-on way, in a very, very big way.
		Now, it is normally understood that the practice of alchemy, the attempt to make gold from lead and mercury, was something that led to chemistry.
		That is, all that dabbling led to chemistry, but there was nothing to it.
		There was no such production of gold from lead.
		And that may well be true in large quantities.
		But in the cold fusion era, where we are fighting a scientific establishment, they use that term alchemy to challenge us.
		Because, indeed, cold fusion scientists have found the transmutation of elements, not like batches of gold coming out of lead, but they have found changes in elements.
		Why is this surprising?
		It is surprising because we understood prior to cold fusion results that it was impossible without going to very high energies in stars or in accelerators to change the identity of elements.
		And so therefore, to say that one is transmuting, one is changing elements and seeing new elements appear in very mild conditions, such as in cold fusion experiments, this is akin to alchemy.
		But I would call it modern alchemy.
unidentified		That's what it is.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		It's positive.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		That was the point I was trying to make.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It is positive.
		Well, they use it as a negative term because alchemy is supposed to be hogwash.
		In other words, the ancient attempt to make gold out of lead was considered a hogwash and a futile effort, whereas today they look at coal fusion experiments and say that too is hogwash, therefore make the comparison with the ancient alchemists.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but I think this is right on the point, is that these folks are living back in the Flat Earth Society day.
		and they haven't moved on into...
		If you say something can't happen, it's not going to happen.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		And if you, in any field, and if you move ahead and somebody tells you you can't do it, well, boy, my wife, if anybody ever tells her it can't be done, she's going to do it.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		And that makes her succeed in a lot of ways.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, that has made coal fusion people succeed in a lot of ways.
		We were put down and still are being put down, but we are confident of the results, and we know that it is a matter of time before they will be accepted by a new generation that will not be bound by the propaganda of these flat earth people.
		You know, when Wegner, the early part of the century, speculated and measured results that told him that the continents had once been together, and of course that theory that the continents could drift back in 1912 and all the way up to the late 1950s, early 60s, was considered nonsense by the establishment of geophysics.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		Because how could continents move?
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		Unthinkable.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		And yet we now know that the continents are moving and we sort of know why they are moving.
		They're on plates and it's called plate tectonics.
		So a whole new paradigm had to be invented before a major idea like continental drift was accepted.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Of course, I live in California.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		We know that the Earth moves all the time.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Oh, of course, it does move.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		I have a fax here, and I'm a big train buff.
		I mean, my idea of having fun, like I go to Europe for three weeks, I'll just ride every train I can find.
		Wonderful.
		But anyway, this guy wants to know how the heat generated from cold fusion could be used to propel locomotives.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Oh, easy.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Well, wait a minute.
		If a turbine is used, will it be powered by superheated air or steam?
		What a grand idea to see the rebirth of steam locomotives on the rails.
		I'm all for that.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Not only will we have steam locomotives powered by coal fusion, okay, with no coal belching from the stacks or diesel oil, but we will also have coal fusion powered steam cars.
		You see, you can take the heat of coal fusion and use it in many ways.
		You could make steam to drive turbines or reciprocating engines, and that would be that.
		You know, that's basically one way.
		Another way is to do it thermoelectrically.
		In other words, convert the coal fusion heat in a high efficiency.
		Most thermoelectric conversion is not high efficiency, but perhaps we can develop those or waste the heat.
		Basically go directly to electricity from coal fusion reactions.
		Many, many things could be done.
		By the way, you're a train buff?
		Excellent.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		There's something that's in between trains and planes, and that is called maglev.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Right.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		I've ridden them.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, they literally levitate above the track.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Right.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Magnetic fields.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		And that's really, it's almost a misnomer to call maglev a train because it's actually more like an electromagnetic plane.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've ridden them from Paris down to Saint-Répe.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I didn't know they had maglev operation.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, they do.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Are you thinking in terms of just a monorail, or was this really a maglev?
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know what a real maglev is.
		I know that's what they told me about.
		It levitates.
		It levitates up off the rail, and as a result of that, there's no drag, and so they can make what is normally an eight-hour trip from Paris down to the Riviera.
		They can do it in four or five hours.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Amazing.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, this couldn't be done either, as a lot of people said.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Somehow, there it is.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Somehow, progress is made.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, don't argue with me.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		It can't be done while you're riding on the trains.
unidentified		Right.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's move along here and talk to Jeff in Portland.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Jeff.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		First, I'd like to say that I work Graveyard Shift here at a gas station, and I'm on your show every night, and you're doing a great job.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Thank you so much, Jeff.
unidentified		And what I'm calling in for is to say, does your guest foresee, in my lifetime, seeing my job going the way of the blacksmith?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes, your job will go away, but you will have a better job.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		You know, let me make an analogy here.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		There aren't very many companies, maybe there aren't any, that are making mechanical typewriters any longer.
		So the typewriter industry got destroyed by the personal computer and word processing.
		We use other kinds of printers today, and we do not need mechanical linkages or even electromechanical linkages for typewriters.
		So there's a much larger industry now devoted, obviously, to personal computers.
		Many more people type with personal computers than ever typed before with mechanical typewriters.
		Now, people who now pump gas will not be pumping gas anymore in the coal fusion age, when it is in full swing.
		But what they will be doing, undoubtedly, if they want to still work at these stations, there will be comfort stations.
		And instead of having these highly flammable fuels that we pump into cars and eventually kill people with when they collide with one another on the highway, even coal fusion cars will collide, we won't have these flames.
		But the people at the comfort stations, such as you, will be having more space for food and comfort and showers and God knows what else.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		But I would say to you, Jeff, don't quit your job because I think you'll be there for a long time.
		This isn't going to happen overnight.
		All right, thank you.
		And we're going to take another brief pause so we can hear from Art Bell, and we will continue right here with Dr. Mellov.
		I am Art Bell.
		No, I'm not Art Bell.
		I'm Hilly Rose sitting in for Hartville.
unidentified		You produce except copies of this program, file 1-800-917-4278.
unidentified		Now, back to Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Hello everybody, sitting in, and let me remind you that the new issue of Fate magazine just came out on the stands this week with a picture of Art Bell on the cover, and there is a story about Art Bell.
		I haven't had a chance to read it yet, so I don't know what it says, but for all you dedicated Art Bell fans, there's another way to find out more about the man.
		So be sure and pick up a copy.
		Let's get back to our phone calls.
		We're talking to Dr. Eugene Malov, and we're talking about cold fusion.
		Let's go to Cecil in Gainesville, Florida.
		Good morning, Cecil.
unidentified		How are you doing?
		Well.
		Dr. Malov, I have a couple of questions for you that they're both on the same topic, but kind of not really.
		Okay.
		I guess my senses are basically, is there any way that they could incorporate this?
		Well, actually, have they tested this theory in a zero gravity environment?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		No.
		It would be a good idea to do that because I believe I don't think that the cold fusion reactions would particularly change very much in space, although liquids operate differently.
		So if you have an electrochemical cell in space, you have to be concerned about how it was put together and the fluids floating and so forth.
		But indeed, I do feel that space power systems, even should we get the, and as I hope we have our Freedom Space Station up there, it now is outfitted or will be outfitted with large solar panels, and these are very bulky and problematic.
		I think eventually these panels will be removed and we will have simple cold fusion-based electric generators aboard such stations.
unidentified		Well, you would tend to think that cold fusion would be more of a logical choice anyways.
unidentified		My second question is, could cold fusion in any way be used as a weapon of mass destruction?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so, but then again, it is new physics.
		It is there are nuclear reactions occurring.
		We do not see evidence of runaway in any sense.
		But on the other hand, what do we know?
		We already have nuclear weapons, galore, on this planet, and nuclear weapons are not all that hard to develop for any country, as long as they can produce uranium-235 in pure enough form, or plutonium.
		We have plenty of other weapons that are very dangerous, so to speculate about what might be coming out of coal fusion, I think even though we should do that and we should be on guard, we have not seen anything yet in it that looks especially ominous.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Or maybe then the government would get involved.
unidentified		Yeah, probably.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, there's a deep irony here.
		There is one aspect of coalfusion that should interest the government as far as its weapon systems go.
		And this shows how absurd the whole coal fusion war has been.
		As I told you earlier, tritium, which is a radioactive form of hydrogen, it's very short-lived.
		It only lives, half of it gets destroyed automatically by decay in 12 and a half years.
		Now this was detected early on in some coal fusion experiments.
		It's not an especially dangerous compound.
		It could be shielded against, and commercial coal fusion reactors would certainly not want to have it, and we would just eliminate it.
		But, or shield it, or whatever.
		But, in the early days, this was found, and it continues to be found in some cold fusion experiments, even at our Los Alamos National Laboratory.
		Now, tritium happens to be one of the ingredients in thermonuclear weapons.
		In other words, a thermonuclear hydrogen bomb is made by having a fission bomb go off and heat up to millions of degrees the fuel, which is tritium and heavy hydrogen.
		Now, tritium is something that the U.S. government needs, and it is willing to spend billions of dollars to recreate a tritium production facility, while at the same time Completely ignoring the fact that tritium might be generated in specialized cold fusion apparatus in a much simpler and cheaper way.
		This would not necessarily, by the way, give India or other countries a leap ahead in hydrogen bomb technology.
		So I don't, again, I don't want to make a big deal about this, but it is true that that one fact of cold fusion has some military aspect to it.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you.
		Dr. Malo, there was something of a mean to ask you all evening and just didn't have a chance to.
		Okay.
		The doctors who originally discovered cold fusion.
		Yeah.
		You indicated to us earlier that Fleischman has gone to France, changed his nationality.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		No, no, a Pons.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Oh, was a Pons in the France?
		Okay.
		What's happened to Fleischmann?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Fleischman is still very much a part of the field.
		He is living in England, where he was from, living in the same place where he's been all along.
		And basically, he's totally confident of all the results that have been produced.
		He's a jolly fellow.
		He's got a very nice human outlook.
		Pons is a person who took this with less humor.
		He perhaps was a less secure man, although he's a dear friend.
		He did feel very badly treated, and he was badly treated by the scientific establishment.
		And so both he and Dr. Fleischmann went to southern France, and they did work for a number of years under a Toyota affiliate called IMRA.
		And they did work successfully on various cold fusion experiments that were pushed and which show even more spectacular results.
		So the short of it is this.
		Pons is dejected, I think, and out of the field.
		He doesn't really want to be communicated with, frankly.
		Whereas Martin, Fleischman, is still very much in the field and he does attend meetings and so forth.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Didn't they originally put a lot of their own money into this?
unidentified		They did.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		They spent about $100,000 of their own money in experiments that were conducted in Utah.
		Fleischman used to, he was retired from the University of Southampton in England, and he would visit his colleague Pons at University of Utah, and they would do these experiments.
		These were done very quietly, and it only came out when they submitted a proposal to the Department of Energy, a secret proposal, to continue this work.
		And one of the Department of Energy reviewers gave this proposal to, I think somewhat unethically, to Dr. Stephen Jones at Brigham Young University.
		And that began a rivalry because Jones was working on something similar, and there got to be all kinds of complications that forced the press conference on March 23rd prematurely.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
		We are coming into the last segment of the show.
		So please stick with me, and we will continue talking about Cold Fusion and what the future could really be like.
		Sitting in for Art Bell, I am Hilly Rose on Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Thank you.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the premier radio network.
		There are times when I'm a woman's feet A question from TV Who's such a gentle man Won't you hear?
		Please tell me what it knows I know it sounds like it's true But please tell me who I am The only way I am The wildcard line to the Kingdom of Nigh is open at 1-775-727-1295.
		That's 1-775-727-1295.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the Premier Radio Networks.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Hilly Rose sitting in for Arch, and we're talking with Dr. Eugene Malov, editor-in-chief and publisher of the bi-monthly Infinite Energy Magazine.
		Dr. Malov, now that we're coming down to the end of this program, and you've made these hours just fly by, you do a wonderful job of explaining this.
		Is there anything that we haven't asked you, and certainly we've covered a lot of territory, but is there anything new in the field or anything important in the field of cold fusion that we haven't already covered?
		Well, the answer is no, that's fine.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, there are some things.
		First of all, I'd like to highlight some upcoming events, if I may.
		The new things, such as the Conference on Future Energy, which will be occurring, as I said, at the Bethesda Maryland Holiday Inn on April 28th through the May 1st that's coming up, will allow people in the Washington area or wherever they're coming from to get more familiar with some of these new ideas in physics and energy.
		Also, the production of the joint showing of these two wonderful films, The Coal Fusion Fire for Water, and MIT Professor Keith Johnson's Breaking Symmetry at the Cambridge Marriott coming up on May 26th, we invite people to come.
		But as far as new technologies, you know, having cut my teeth on the original coal fusion claim, I never intended to, so to speak, become a coal fusion researcher.
		It just happened that I did because I was there at the right place at the right time or the wrong place at the right time, whatever, at MIT.
		My eyes have been opened in a much greater sense, and I now see other developments that are related, that I consider to be related to coal fusion.
		And we might want to discuss very briefly.
		There are some aspects of water that are far more profound than even the major coal fusion claim.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		And they need to be investigated.
budd hopkins ▲ ● ▼		There's no doubt about this.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		There are health effects that have been observed by some individuals and groups that we have written about in a preliminary way in one of our magazines, issue 18, I believe, electrochemical activation of water, that seems to produce health benefits of an extraordinary nature.
		Now, these technologies are in use already in Japan and in Russia.
		They are most amazing.
		What you have in effect in that technology is the ability of what looks like ordinary water, albeit processed electrochemically, to be a very potent sterilizing agent.
		And they use it for curing many types of ailments, such as gangrene and diabetic conditions on limbs, that are not practiced in this country.
		And I would like to, in the future, discuss in our magazine and elsewhere how that technology in water is evolving.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it blows my mind here just thinking about it.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it is.
		Now, there's another aspect which is even more heretical, and by the way, be equal fun of by the critics.
		It's called memory in water.
		And I'm not willing to say that this actually is real, although I suspect it is because the scientific evidence for it has built up.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		What does this mean, memory in water?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, Dr. Ben Veniste, Jacques Benveniste, the famous French immunologist, just before a coal fusion, he published a paper in Nature magazine saying that he had tested water that was diluted.
		That is, not water that was diluted.
		Agents were put in.
		Toxic agents were put into water, and the water was diluted many, many, many times, such that the final water, okay, was so dilute that the probability of even one molecule of the toxic agent being in the final batch was about one out of a million.
		So in effect, what you had at the very end was pure water.
		And yet, there appeared to be something like a memory effect, whereby that pure water applied to cells would create effects on those cells as though the molecules were still there.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so we're talking about like metal has a memory.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		It's not a human memory.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Not a human memory, but a remembrance, so to speak, of the molecule.
		Now, there doesn't appear by conventional physics or physics understandings to be any way that this can happen.
		And yet, the experimental data show it.
		And he has provided even more provocative material that suggests that these types of processes, this memory and water process, which can be investigated experimentally, is something whereby cells in the body communicate with one another and chemical reactions are mediated.
		So, to say the least, this memory of water controversy, which is about as intense as cold fusion, although it doesn't have as many people working on it, this is a very important thing.
		And in the future, we will cover that.
		As I say, I don't ratify it, but on the other hand, I think it should be investigated very, very objectively and at a high priority.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Now, how does that relate to cold fusion?
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		You said that.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, it may not be related, although it is related in the sense that it again shows something, some properties of water that were previously thought of as being nonsensical, but nonetheless appear to have experimental basis.
		By the way, the whole field of homeopathic medicine, which does partake of this, that's why Ben Venice got into it.
		He wasn't a homeopathic physician.
		But homeopathic medicine for centuries, two centuries, has relied on these dilutions.
		And this was merely an attempt to do a scientific investigation which appears to have produced positive results.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		There's so much we don't know, and if only we could open our minds and move forward.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		All right.
		Let's take a quick call here from Dan in Spring Valley.
		Hi, Dan.
		You're on the air at the RPL show.
unidentified		Hi, Hilly.
unidentified		I was just wondering if this is, like, advanced far enough so that maybe you can make little home generators, you know?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		That's where it will go.
unidentified		It will?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		The whole future of energy on this planet will be that of distributed power systems.
		We're not going to have the grid.
		The grid is going to wither and die, just like the horse and buggies left us.
		We're going to have power sources in homes for generating electricity.
		That's where it's going.
unidentified		How far do you think it is away from getting to that point?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would like to think it's closer than we think.
		It seems like such a wonderful vision.
		I don't rule out that a significant amount of this can begin to occur in the next decade.
		And perhaps actually like the computer revolution, which really occurred within a span of 20 years, we had a revolution in technology called a personal computer revolution.
		I personally believe that the same intensity of revolution, perhaps even greater, can occur with coal fusion once the first products enter the marketplace.
		In the first early days of the personal computer revolution, they were just toys and kits, little sort of hobbyist kits, between 1975 and roughly 1980.
		But when that really began to take off, and there were things like the Apple computer and so forth, then we had the beginnings of a revolution.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you, sir.
		And Dr. Mellon, we'll take a final couple of calls for you right after these exciting messages here on Coast to Coast A.M. From Opian County,
		Texas.
		Hi, Perry.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, I wanted to ask Dr. Milo about, was he aware of Dr. Stephen's career work on the Oprah Unity Machine Art Bell's had him on his show several times as a guest.
unidentified		He's supposed to unveil one pretty soon there.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've heard something about that, and I don't know enough about it at the moment to really have an intelligent discussion about it on the air.
		So we'll just keep that under discussion.
		I can tell you that Dr. Greer will be a speaker at the upcoming Conference on Future Energy at the Holiday Inn in Bethesda, Maryland.
		So perhaps we'll hear a little bit about that device from Dr. Greer at time.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's move along here to talk with Al in Albuquerque.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Al.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yeah, I noticed that last night they've been saying we really don't know what's going on.
		And I think that's because we lack a grand unified theory.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		We lack full understanding of what's going on in coal fusion processes, but I don't think we need a grand unified theory.
		We just need, well, whatever can explain coal fusion will explain it, and perhaps we will use it without having it fully understood.
		Much as primitive peoples used fire and medicines of various kinds from the natural forests without knowing exactly what they were doing or how they were working.
unidentified		I understand.
		Okay.
		Another thing is I noticed the difference between cold fusion and warm superconductivity.
		When that came out, everybody got on the bandwagon.
		Yes, it was.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		It worked very easily.
		The blessing for high-temperature superconductivity or warm superconductivity, as you would say, was that it was very easy to reproduce.
		Cold Fusion didn't have that blessing.
		Had it had that blessing, it would have been a different course.
		It was reproducible enough in the beginning such that good people got the results and stuck to it.
		But it allowed the critics a very easy out to say, oh, it's a mess and no one can reproduce it and it's this and it's that.
		And that's how it all got off to a bad start.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you.
		Let's move on here to Tom and Fresno.
		Good morning, Tom.
		Hello.
		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Can you hear me?
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		You're very loud and clear.
unidentified		I can barely hear you.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's important for you to talk up.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Professor, it's a pleasure to talk to you, sir.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, don't elevate me to Professor.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I'm a doctor.
unidentified		Okay.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		That is an elevation, Doctor.
unidentified		There's a situation that the scientists have overlooked, and that's the fact that functional entities operate on the basis of a scheme, symmetry, methodology, and system.
		And Jay Forrester of MIT points out that man-lives works within systems, but even so, the principles governing the behavior systems are not widely understood.
		So, in other words, science works to describe systematic and schematic morphologic features of it, but they don't understand what the schemes, symmetry, methodology, systems are.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Okay, these are words, but what are you getting at?
unidentified		Okay, what I'm getting at is that Watson, co-discoverer of the AA helix, says that the growth and division of cells are based upon the same laws of chemistry that control the behavior of molecules outside of cells.
		So, in other words, chemistry, chemicals, and living cells operate on the same scheme, symmetry, methodology, and system.
		Now, you just mentioned a minute ago before the commercial that you were going into this other field for information that you thought had some analogies, homologies, or homogeneities.
		Right.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I didn't say I was going into it.
		I said we will be considering it.
		will be looking at the death evidence or because it's a it's an issue or a set set of issues connected with water of scientific claims that need to be investigated and they might have uh...
		some bearing on Okay, thank you.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		And let's go along here and talk with John in Westchester County, New York.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Hi, John.
unidentified		Hi, Hilly.
unidentified		You know, there's a certain amount of controversy over this conference on free energy that Dr. Malov has not mentioned to the listeners.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, I tried to, but what do you think?
unidentified		Well, last month I received a mailing from the Integrity Research Institute stating that this conference was going to be held at the Dean Atchison Auditorium at the State Department, and it was going to be co-hosted by the Secretary of State's Open Forum.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that was correct.
unidentified		It was.
unidentified		Why is it being moved to Bethesda, and why is the State Department no longer involved?
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Before the doctor answers, let me say this was addressed much earlier.
		You probably didn't hear it.
		You missed it.
		But he did indeed address it, so he's not obfuscating or trying to avoid it.
		But go ahead and answer.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Basically, a critic who had just been hired, he's a physicist with the Arms Control Agency and The State Department had found out about this conference just soon after he joined, and he was outraged because he none of this makes any sense to him, even though he doesn't, he proved publicly in Atlanta, Georgia at the American Physical Society meeting that he didn't know anything about the content.
		He went down the list of speakers and he was making fun of it before a thousand physicists.
		But he took action to get it moved from the State Department to, well, he just killed it there.
		And then Tom Vallone of the Integrity Research Institute had it moved to the Commerce Department.
		He is a member, by the way, a patent examiner, so he had some contacts there.
		Then strings were pulled by these nasty physicists, and apparently they got it killed at the Commerce Department, too.
		At which time, Tom Vallone had it arranged that we will have it on April 28th, excuse me, 29th, 30th, and May 1st at the Bethesda Maryland Holiday Inn.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, John?
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Does that answer your question?
unidentified		Well, were there any problems with people complaining that the State Department wanted U.S. citizens to register their Social Security numbers in the US?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there was an aspect of that, but that wasn't the reason it was moved.
		No, no, no.
		It had to do with a physicist who was very prejudiced against the topic, the subject matter, and he was unwilling to...
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you much.
		And let's see.
		We get a final call in here from Contra Costa County and Ezra.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Oh, Ezra here?
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, go ahead.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Well, Doctor, some hour ago or so, you mentioned something, inference about carbon dioxide in the air.
		And I just wondered if you would answer this question for me in your mind.
		Which came first, hydrocarbon or carbohydrates?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Which came first?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		In what sense came first?
unidentified		Well, there's a good reason for that question, and I'm going to make a statement afterward.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have to understand what's going on.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Which do you believe came first question?
unidentified		Carbohydrate or hydrocarbon?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		I mean, hydrocarbons exist on the Earth.
unidentified		We're burning hydrocarbons now by the tons of the cars.
		What about the carbohydrates?
		Which came first?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it's a question of the origin of oil, and I'm not sure.
unidentified		You bet it is.
		It's exactly what I'm getting at, the origin of life.
		Where did it come from?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, the origin of life, we do not have any proof of exactly where it came from.
unidentified		Well, you don't have any proof of evolution, not one kind of iota, and that's the only other thing there can be except a creation, right?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's your opinion, and you're welcome to.
unidentified		It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of science.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's another subject.
unidentified		You mentioned Faraday a while ago, which is in the same subject.
		Mr. Michael Faraday, a great man, friend of mine, by the way.
		Michael Faraday?
		Was a solid creation.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		1646?
unidentified		He was that old?
unidentified		That's right.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		How old are you?
unidentified		148.
		Really?
		I'm kidding, of course.
		Well, anyway.
		I just wanted to get through and ask you the important question.
		Who made you?
		Why were you made?
		And what is your duty?
		Those are the three questions Noel Webster said constitute the whole business of life.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		That's a subject for another day.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		It's so yes.
		Okay, thank you very much.
		Whew, I tell you.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Hey, we had to have one person attack me.
		Well, he didn't really attack me.
		He just asked the question, and it's a worthy question.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Of course, it is a worthy question.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		For another program?
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are many, many, many programs we have had and Art has had on this subject.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		So I think we have to leave it for somebody else another time.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Right.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		All right.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Malov, once again, you have been superlative in your presentation.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was really concerned that maybe you'd get very technical on me.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Well, I didn't do that, did I?
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		No, you did not.
unidentified		Okay.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		And that's why I'm complimenting you.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Otherwise, I'd say you're a bum and get rid of.
unidentified		All right.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		No, that's really fine.
		And, of course, I do want to point out to people, I didn't do this accepting in the first hour, that Dr. Malov is a highly degreed individual in these fields.
		He has a master of science degree, bachelor's science degree in aeronautical and astronautical engineering from the MIT, science doctorate in environmental health sciences, air pollution control engineering from Harvard University, and on and on and on, places he's worked, Hughes Research Laboratories, MIT Lincoln Laboratory.
		What I'm sort of saying here is we get people who come on these programs with all kinds of theories that don't have substance or they have no background, the people who present them.
		And to be talking to someone with this kind of background is a real pleasure because he sort of knows where he's coming from.
		So, Dr. Mello, quickly, I've only got about 10 seconds here.
		Do you want to give us your web address again?
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Okay, www.infinite-energy.com.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		The phone number, 603-228-4516 in New Hampshire.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Very good.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Sir, thank you for spending the night with us.
eugene mallove ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for having me on.
hilly rose ▲ ● ▼		Okay, tomorrow night, Feng Shui, Richard Webster will be here and just could change your whole life, friends, and it's very simple to do.

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