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March 10, 1999 - Art Bell

02:39:40

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Division of Consciousness - Peter Novak

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	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from March 10th, 1999.
	From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning, wherever you may be, across this great land, powers commercially from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands out West, Eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, South and South America, North all the way to Poland, worldwide on the Internet, this It is coast-to-coast AM, and I guess beyond.
	And worldwide, thanks to Broadcast.com, and of course Intel, at the moment, as we continue our experiment in streaming videos.
	Streaming video, or is it screaming video?
	Listen, you can go up to my website and you can get the G2 software, free of charge.
	Won't cost you a red cent.
	It won't cost you an American cent either.
	And then come back and click on streaming video and here I will be dancing about doing my show and you can both see and hear what goes on.
	Now, Richard C. Hoagland, good news to report, at least tentative good news, Richard did make it through surgery and Richard Richard is going to, we're going to have to watch Richard very carefully for the next, I don't know, 48 hours or so.
	But he did make it through surgery, I repeat.
	And I haven't had a lot of communication from the people in Miami.
	My guess is, I've had a little bit, my guess is that they're all pretty whipped and once he got through surgery and was no doubt Totally conked out.
	They all took the opportunity to go get a little bit of sleep.
	But I did get word that he made it through the surgery, so thank you all.
	I guess we can at least tentatively, cautiously conclude Grand Experiment No.
	7 worked.
	Or, at least it's not an obvious failure.
	Richard lives.
	So I want to thank all of you from the bottom of my heart who participated in the effort.
	You never know, I guess you can call these things as you will, but we have now done seven experiments, and all seven have come up winners.
	Now, I don't know, I guess you could calculate the odds of that one with regard to rain, or E.T.
	showing themselves, or people recovering from uh... insurmountable difficulties certainly the case with daniel and a good helping hand with richard so i i don't know you know what what what do you conclude about many minds concentrating in a single effort i have not yet concluded anything except that i'm leaning heavily toward believing that it actually works listen next hour you're in for a treat peter novak will be here
	And he claims to have solved the oldest mystery of them all, the secret of death itself.
	And he has written a book called, The Division of Consciousness.
	The Division of Consciousness.
	And he will explain, I guess, the nature of what he believes consciousness to be, and in its understanding, Unriddles the mystery of death.
	We'll see.
	Next hour, Peter Novak.
	Right now, a little bit of an update.
	First, NASA has got to go up and fix the Hubble.
	There's more Hubble trouble.
	Now, I hadn't heard that.
	But let me read the story to you as is and see what you think of it.
	NASA will launch an emergency repair mission this fall to the Hubble Space Telescope.
	Which is in danger of shutting down.
	NASA decided Wednesday to move up the Hubble visit to October from June of 2000.
	Although the two billion dollar telescope would be safe in orbit, NASA does not want
	to risk losing any valuable science time.
	Hmm.
	Huh huh huh huh.
	What's wrong with Hubble?
	I hadn't heard Hubble was in trouble, but apparently it is again.
	You don't suppose it could be related to Y2K, do you?
	Now, again, although they say the $2 billion telescope would be safe in orbit, NASA doesn't want to lose any valuable science time.
	See, that would lead a Slightly suspicious person to believe that it might be a software thing.
	Maybe an embedded chip up there circling the earth?
	Who knows?
	Secretary of State Madeleine Albright urges Congress to delay votes on Kosovo until peace talks are completed.
	Suggesting the warring sides would interpret a lack of U.S.
	resolve as, quote, a green light to resume fighting, but The House Speaker has rejected her appeal and scheduled a debate for tomorrow on a resolution on the possible deployment of U.S.
	troops.
	I wonder why they would do that.
	Seems to me not to be a brilliant idea to deploy U.S.
	troops until they're sure they've got some kind of agreement.
	Otherwise, we're sending our guys into the middle of a hot zone.
	Maybe that's what they're going to do.
	Here's what I call a head shaker.
	A man down in Louisiana walked into a church, in the middle of a church service, and opened fire as he walked down the aisle, killing two people, wounding four others.
	The minister said the gunman's wife and baby were killed.
	He also reportedly shot and killed his mother-in-law before going to church.
	Incident occurred at New St.
	John Fellowship Baptist Church in Gonzales, 20 miles east of Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
	Parish deputies there, shaking their head.
	They have no idea why this occurred.
	Great.
	Into church, right down the aisle with a gun, blazing away.
	This is really, really interesting what I've got here.
	It is from Gene.
	And Gene sent me email saying roughly the following, Art, I sent a message to SOHO, you know, the people with the satellite that watches the sun, asking them about the probability of a superflare, flashback to last night, superflare hitting Earth, and what it would do if it did.
	And I got an amazingly uncommunicative response, which I have quoted below.
	So, here's what she wrote to the people at SoHo.
	CNN reported recently that other star-like stars have been seen expelling super flares.
	How likely is it that the Sun might send a super flare our way, and what exactly would be the consequences?
	Now this is sent to SoHo, right?
	And so, You can see the trail of email once Gene's letter got to Soho.
	It reached first a man named Steele.
	That's S-T-E-E-L-E, Steele, who said, Steele, can you take this one?
	Thanks.
	And you can see that it was kicked, thanks Gene, And Gene kicked it over to somebody else.
	And finally, it's hard to discern who sent this.
	The answer that came back to my emailer was... The technical answer she got back from the SoHo people was on the possibility of a major flare.
	Are you ready?
	Quote.
	To quote Paul McCartney, Tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the sun.
	End quote.
	Gene writes, as you can see, my message got bumped from scientist to scientist, who would normally answer questions, and finally to their PI guy, Soho Media Specialist.
	The BR guy then proceeded to just throw me a cryptic McCartney quote, No mention of the chances or the possible outcome, as I had asked.
	This, to me, expresses an attempt to hide something.
	Can the PR guy really answer my question about supernova flares better than the scientists?
	Yeah, right.
	So, again, a serious inquiry made of the people at Soho kicked past several of the scientists there.
	Finally, with an answer, Tomorrow may rain, so follow the sun.
	Yeah, alright. I mentioned this the other morning, but I didn't give it much play because
	I just didn't have time the other morning. On Tuesday, last week, this is in the Knight
	Ritter newspapers, a dangerous asteroid whizzed by Earth in a cosmic close call. Similar near-misses
	are expected March 18th, March 26th, and April 1st.
	Astronomers are discovering killer asteroids at a record pace.
	Now, they've already added 55, by the way, this year.
	More than any other six years combined.
	Anyway, It goes back to what I've always said about this.
	The really close calls that we get are never seen until after the fact.
	In other words, they never run a story saying, Earth is about to have a close call.
	Tomorrow, or the next day, something is going to come whizzing by and it's going to be really close, folks, but no cigars.
	Or can't you do that cigar thing anymore?
	We never get a notification ahead of time.
	Always, well, we just, guess what, we just had a close call.
	And here's an interesting story from Philadelphia, the Inquirer there.
	The Philadelphia Inquirer, a very well respected paper.
	Deformed calves, discolored crops, purple pigs dying by the hundreds, Then, decomposing quickly.
	Sounds like the X-Files, doesn't it?
	It isn't some Old Testament pestilence.
	It's here, and now, and a mystery that has driven one farmer in western Montgomery County out of business and has others in the area scared for theirs, and for their health.
	Thus far, the long series of reported problems first noted in the early 1990s has absolutely confounded environmental and agricultural officials.
	The EPA did its most recent round of soil and water testing on the farms in January.
	More tests to come.
	But quote, the data we got back thus far does not indicate any kind of environmental or human health emergency out here.
	We're looking at what needs to be done from here on out.
	And apparently it's not exactly isolated either throughout the Mid-Atlantic region, according to Lynn Campbell, an EPA spokesperson, farm animals are dying, and we don't know why.
	We're going to make any kind of connection we can, try to figure out what's going on here.
	Everybody is very tight-lipped on the story, but I trust the Philadelphia Inquirer is following the story, and we'll get some kind of update on it.
	Pretty weird stuff, huh?
	The priest was preparing a man for his long day's journey into night.
	Must be a hard job for a priest, you know, going to people who are dying.
	You ever think about that?
	That's what Daniel does, too.
	Whispering firmly, our priest said, Denounce the devil, son, let him know how little you think of his evil.
	The dying man was silent.
	The priest repeated his order.
	The dying man still said nothing.
	The priest then asked, Why do you refuse to denounce the devil and his evil?
	The moment goes by and the dying man replies, Well, until I know exactly where I'm heading,
	I don't think I ought to aggravate anybody.
	Sound of explosion Alright, one more here that I can do tonight,
	now that I feel a little better, considering Richard made it through.
	Now, don't stop.
	He continues to need great assistance in the next 48 hours.
	You know, they're going to be watching Richard very carefully.
	And they are, of course, tentative hours after you have come out of surgery.
	So, for those of you who have been thinking good thoughts, don't stop.
	Please.
	But I thought you should hear this.
	A few months ago, there was an opening in the CIA for an assassin.
	The highly classified positions are rather hard to fill, as you might imagine, and there's a lot of testing and background checking involved before you can even be considered for anything like that.
	After sending many, many applicants through the background checks and the training, testing, They finally narrowed the possible choices down to two men and one woman, but only one position was available.
	So two were to be disappointed?
	Anyway, the day came for the final test to see which of those final qualifying persons would get the extremely secretive job.
	The CIA man administering the test took one of the men aside and handed him a gun.
	He said, quote, We must know that you will follow your instructions no matter the circumstances.
	End quote.
	He explained, pointing to a door and said, Inside that room you'll find your wife sitting in a chair.
	Take this gun and kill her.
	The man got a shot.
	Look on his face as you can imagine.
	He said, You can't be serious.
	I could never, never shoot my own wife.
	Well, said the CIA fellow, you're not the person for this job.
	And he was disqualified and sent home.
	The CIA man took the second fellow aside, handed him the gun, and told him precisely the same thing.
	The man looked a bit shocked, but took the gun and went in the room.
	Everything was quiet for about five minutes, then the door opened.
	The man came out with tears in his eyes.
	I tried to shoot her, he said, but just couldn't pull the trigger.
	I couldn't shoot my own wife.
	I guess I'm not the right guy for this job.
	No, said the CIA man, you just don't have what it takes.
	Take your wife and go home, son.
	Now we finally get down to the woman.
	He hands her the gun, tells her the same thing, except of course it's her husband sitting in the chair in the room.
	The woman Kennedy 3 takes the gun and opens the door.
	Before the doors have even closed comes the sound of gunfire.
	Tremendous gunfire.
	The door closed and the gunfire continues.
	Shot after shot after shot.
	Thirteen shots fired in total.
	Then all hell broke loose in the room.
	The CIA man heard screaming, crashing, Banging on the walls, things hitting the floor, and this went on for several minutes, and then everything went quiet.
	The door opens then slowly, and there stands the woman.
	Final candidate.
	She wipes the sweat off her brow and says, You guys didn't tell me the gun was loaded with blanks!
	I had to beat him to death with a chair.
	I think we'll break here and we'll be back with open lines through the top of
	I'm Art Bell.
	Stay right there.
	You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 10th, 1999.
	I'm looking strong, we gotta get right back to where we started from.
	You remember that day, when you first came my way. I said no one can take your place.
	And if you get hurt, if you get hurt by the little things I say. I can put that smile back on your face.
	Well it's alright and it's...
	I can put that smile back on your face.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from March 10, 1999.
	Again, for those of you who might not have heard or tuned in late, Richard Hoagland has made it through surgery, alive, and needs to be watched carefully by the people at the hospital, the doctors, and you.
	So let us not let up in our well wishes, mentally, for Richard.
	In Grand Experiment No.
	7.
	But that's the good news, folks.
	He's through the surgery and still with us.
	They'll be watching him very carefully, as they always do in these cases, over the next 48 hours or so.
	Maybe, before you know it, we'll have Richard here telling us all about it.
	Just one more little item before we go to the phones and open lines.
	Spring Hill, Tennessee.
	Ever get so mad at your car that you just shoot it?
	Gee, I would never consider such things.
	Actually, I've considered shooting computers.
	Anyway, a guy in Spring Hill, Tennessee did.
	Please say Boyd Kelly's car just died on him Saturday night.
	So, he blasted it.
	Right there, in the middle of the highway.
	Hold out an AK-47 assault rifle, and empty three 30-round clips into the poor 88 Oldsmobile, now departed.
	A sheriff's dispatcher says that several people called to report the bizarre scene of this man firing round after round into the tortured body of this Oldsmobile, and Kelly, of course, is now charged with a weapons violation, but the Olds, well, the Olds is wherever olds go.
	Again, a question about the possibility of a flare, a Steel Hill Soho media specialist, NASA Goddard Space Flight
	Center, replied to my emailer,
	to quote Paul McCartney, tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the sun.
	So.
	I'm not going to get over that one for a while.
	One more little car story and then off we go.
	A Knoxville, Tennessee.
	Where was that other story from?
	It was from Spring Hill, Tennessee.
	Hey, what's going on in Tennessee anyway with you people?
	Listen to this.
	Knoxville, Tennessee.
	Honk if you say I do.
	There's a man in Tennessee.
	We just, of course, read about one who shot his car three clips in a AK-47 into the Oldsmobile.
	Anyway, there's another man in Tennessee who wants to marry his car.
	We apparently feel about our cars the way we do about our women, huh?
	This guy actually wants to marry his car.
	Buster Mitchell says that he has been broken-hearted and hung out to dry, so he figured he might as well marry his only other true love, his 1996 Mustang GT.
	He calls it doing the good ol' boy thing.
	he's going to have to settle for a driver's license because officials in
	knoxville say only men and women could get get marriage licenses
	it picked up that license uh...
	it was some time after he listed his fiancee's birthplace as detroit
	her father as henry ford and her blood type as ten w forty
	that his plans began to spot her uh...
	Ha ha ha.
	Ha ha ha.
	Mitchell, though, is not giving up.
	He plans to try at a couple of wedding chapels in the Great Smoky Mountains.
	Her birth... Oh, boy.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Oh, we just missed him.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello there, Art.
	Oh, it's Ritz.
	Hi, Ritz.
	At least some good news about Richard.
	Yes, yes.
	We're all concerned.
	Now, we all know he's a man on the go constantly, and the question also arises, when did he have his last medical checkup?
	That I can't answer for you.
	Of course not.
	Does he have yearly checkups?
	Guys like this usually on the go never have.
	Probably not.
	He's a serious type A person, as you well know.
	A plus even.
	Age and stress finally caught up with him.
	And so I'm sure he will, from now on, take his life a little different, a different direction.
	Of course, we all miss him.
	And I hope he's going to get well soon.
	But that was a warning signal.
	I think stress, absolutely, Fritz, is a big part of it.
	It's stressful.
	What Richard does, no doubt about it, is stressful.
	We all know the work he has accomplished.
	And even if he's in a gray area, there's nobody out there that can match his ability.
	Regardless, the people that poke fun at him, but I mean, we need guys like him because what today is science fiction is reality tomorrow, and he has broken ground for many areas.
	Well, Fritz, most recently, of course, if it had not been for Richard, there would now be concrete where something in excess of 2,000 years of age is now being preserved.
	I hope that will sink in on America.
	I hope it will, too.
	Thanks, Fritz.
	Take care.
	See you later.
	East of the Rockies, you are upon the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, how are you?
	Oh, well, better than yesterday, which is always a good sign.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	All right, yeah, just took care of that.
	That's good.
	How are you tonight?
	Pretty well.
	What is your name?
	My name is True.
	True?
	Yeah.
	All right.
	I'm from New York.
	True in New York.
	Yeah, that's right.
	I actually had three questions of interest that I was going to see if you could just throw me quick answers to.
	You can even pick one that you just Well, give them to me one at a time.
	Yeah, um, okay.
	I was going to ask you, what do you think of the connections of the holy books of really all philosophy of religion and them maybe being like a primitive form of alien contact to humans?
	And also... Well, now, wait a minute.
	What do I think of the various holy books that are written?
	As far as... For example, the Koran and the Bible and so forth.
	I think that, um, All are as likely to carry you to an ultimate path on the other side as another.
	In other words, I don't necessarily favor one above the other.
	I think they all may take you to the same good place, if that's where you're going to go.
	Of course.
	I mean, I was actually speaking more in terms of an actual alien to human transfer of knowledge, almost.
	Because I've heard from people that I've talked with They have perspectives on it, like they look at it as maybe it was a way for a higher species of thinking, of thought, you know, to leave messages for us how to live, but yet it couldn't be handed to them, you know, handed to us just blatantly open.
	It was like knowledge to be gained.
	I tend to think of a single sorcerer interpreted here Uh, as multiple sources, but the message is the same.
	That's what I think, yeah.
	Uh, alright.
	Second question?
	Um, the 33rd Degree Masons and their connection with, uh, satanic worship?
	I have no comment on that.
	Uh, third question?
	okay on george but what do you think it george bush and the arm of the i don't
	know if you've heard about the committee got together i want to go to egypt
	for two thousand and also the connection that that has that you have had
	with the rev the book you know the book of revelations that's like your second
	questions I appreciate your call, though.
	Thank you very much.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Thank you, Art, for taking my call.
	You bet.
	Where are you?
	This is Noreen from nearby.
	Buffalo, New York.
	All right.
	And I listened to you faithfully on WBEN.
	Yes, ma'am.
	930 on your AM dial.
	And Bert, a friend of mine, is the one who recommended you to me a year and a half ago.
	Do you thank her now or curse her?
	Pardon me?
	I said, do you thank her now or curse her?
	I thank her, because if I hadn't met her, I wouldn't have been listening to the program.
	That you have and thank you for having this program.
	You're very welcome.
	Now I need to tell you something so that hopefully you'll ask a question of Ed Davis when he comes on this Friday.
	Yes.
	Okay, shortly after 2 o'clock this afternoon I was waiting for the bank to set the checkout line in the car.
	I noticed the cloud in the sky was too exact.
	I mean clouds are vaguely defined shapes but this was too Uh, well defined to be a, a cloud.
	And so I kept saying afternoon to my partner, there's something wrong about this whole thing.
	I had strange vibes all afternoon.
	Do you think it was a contrail?
	Oh, you're reading my mind.
	Oh no, listen, I have already, I should have told Keith too.
	Keith, I've booked William Thomas for next Wednesday night, Thursday morning, Wednesday night.
	William Thomas is coming back.
	This contrail story is so hot.
	It's unbelievable.
	I mean, it's just absolutely on fire.
	I've seen the X in the sky.
	I was wondering, you know, when I first listened to the first Contrail program, it didn't ring a bell with me until the part about the Webby stuff.
	I was in the middle of my yard a couple of times.
	I thought, there's no spider that could possibly weave a web this big.
	And then when I heard that you read a fax from Buffalo, New York, And the rest is history, and today is like history.
	Yep.
	And it's starting to get better, but now I'm getting horrible.
	Let me tell you something.
	Even Linda Moulton Howe is beginning to take notice.
	She called me yesterday about the contrail story, and I'm putting her in touch with William Thomas, but people are beginning to jump up to this one.
	So we'll see, and we're going to be following up.
	I will ask Ed Dames, in fact, Ed, if you're out there, if you can do any quick work, it's a tall order.
	Ed, if you're listening, but I would really like to know if there is anything that you would have to say about this whole contrail business.
	I would like to... I'd love to know that, Ed.
	Now, this is one of those stories that has taken on a life of its own.
	Also, just about everybody I know right now has the flu or a cold.
	And there are these suspicious phone numbers they're giving out.
	Programs that will give you free treatment in return for answering survey questions about your flu-like conditions.
	Weird, weird, weird stuff.
	On the international line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	My name's Dean.
	I'm from Toronto.
	Dean?
	Toronto?
	Boy, do we have an echo.
	Hold on, Dean.
	Let me correct that.
	I think that should do it.
	Hi, Dean.
	Hi.
	I'm from Toronto and two things I want to mention.
	Did you get my package with the photos of the skull on the grave?
	On what grave?
	I took photos of the painted skull I had.
	and put on a Belgrave and sent it to you.
	I thought that might interest you.
	I guess you didn't get the package.
	On a Belgrave?
	Yeah, I found a Belgrave marker with Bel on it.
	Anyway, it's just an idea I had that I sent off to you.
	Something to cheer you up, I guess.
	About two weeks ago, I tried to identify a cover-up from Hydro and the natural gas company here, and I saw what looked like a rocket taking off.
	And it lit up all the sky.
	In Toronto?
	In Toronto.
	Do they launch rockets from Toronto?
	Sir, do they launch rockets from Toronto?
	Pardon?
	I said, do they launch rockets from Toronto?
	No, they don't.
	To me it looked like a beam, a green beam.
	And it was off on the horizon.
	And I phoned up all sorts of authorities to find out what they could identify it as.
	And?
	And they can't figure out anything.
	Well, I appreciate the report.
	Maybe we'll get some others.
	I'm not sure how you would confuse a green beam with a launch.
	Launches are really specific.
	How do you identify a launch?
	Well, for example, when they occur at Vandenberg, you will see a quickly rising rocket with a tail, a plume behind it.
	And then, if done around sunrise or sunset, you will see this.
	Or even after.
	This really cool, twisty kind of curlicue thing that might give you pause for a moment until you realize it is a launch.
	They leave pretty typical trademarks as they ascend.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Good evening, Eric.
	This is Rick from Issaquah, Washington.
	Listening to you on KOMO.
	Thank you, Rick.
	Welcome.
	The reason why I called is a couple reasons.
	I first started listening to your show about six or seven years ago.
	One of the primary reasons was because of Richard Hoagland.
	He was talking about the crystalline structures on the moon.
	It's a very, very fascinating show.
	I just wanted to give my best to him.
	A couple of questions.
	About two years ago, on April 1st I believe it was, there was a gentleman that was flying In a small Cessna airplane.
	Actually, that was April 2nd.
	Everybody says it was an April Fool's joke.
	Well, I have no idea.
	The answer is, I have absolutely no idea what happened to him.
	Now, what we heard clearly indicated that he was shot down over Area 51.
	That's certainly what I drew from it.
	And there's, unfortunately, there's nobody you can call about something like that.
	There's no Area 51 phone number.
	Yeah.
	Because they don't even admit it exists.
	And if you call Nellis, they don't admit it exists.
	So, calling an official to ask about a place that doesn't exist and a plane going down in it is... doesn't get you anywhere.
	He didn't have a girlfriend or something that was gonna call you and get in touch with you or something?
	She did get in touch with me.
	She never got back in touch with me.
	Oh, I see.
	So...
	I have no way to follow up.
	Wow.
	One of the things that Richard Hogan, he was in Seattle about four or five months ago and
	he brought that STS-80 tape.
	Oh, yes.
	And the amazing thing about that tape was that the pieces of debris or the UFOs, whatever
	they were, that were station keeping with the space shuttle.
	And that was, they didn't kind of show that on that television program that was on a couple
	The STS-80 video is going to send anybody scratching their head walking away.
	There's no way you can look at what was on that video and not know that you saw a weapons test of some kind or a vehicle leaving Earth at a real clip.
	And the object, one thing that I noticed was that they would As Richard Hogan would call it, station keep.
	They'd move into your frame of vision and then stop and fly with the space shuttle.
	Same speed, same distance.
	And the only things that can do that are intelligently operated aircraft.
	Look, if you really want to thrill, try and get hold of the entire STS-80 video.
	And what you've really got to do to put the whole thing in perspective is watch the entire thing.
	It goes on, oh, about 20 minutes or so.
	And from that, you get a feel of what NASA is doing, intentionally, and what they're not doing, when they're just sort of letting the cameras capture whatever might be out there, you know, pulled back.
	So you've got a wide-angle view, and then the obviously, specifically, zooming in expectation of something to occur in a very small area.
	And then, of course, It occurs.
	So whatever was going to happen, they were aware it was going to happen.
	It's really interesting.
	International Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	How are you?
	Okay.
	Where are you?
	I'm calling from Winnipeg, Canada here.
	Winnipeg.
	Yes, sir.
	You betcha.
	Here's what happened.
	Earlier today, driving home from work just before dusk, it's a cloudy, hazy day with
	a high ceiling.
	Out of the corner of my eye, out of the window of my vehicle, I see a flash.
	As I look up, I see what I can only best describe as a white ball, for lack of a better term,
	to compare it to something that looks like a brilliant light bulb with green color in
	it flying at an incredible clip.
	I've never seen anything fly as fast as this.
	Isn't that interesting?
	Did you hear the call from Toronto?
	I did, and he was talking about some sort of green laser.
	Yeah, that's right, that's right.
	And what you are now talking about sounds at least somewhat similar.
	In other words, the way two people might perceive a single event.
	Right.
	Now, you know, trying to dismiss any other options here, I don't know how to I don't know what to describe it as, other than that, as I did, but trying to figure out what I saw today obviously was not an airplane.
	It was a big ball of fire, but what I'm wondering is, is it possible that a meteor could enter our atmosphere?
	Of course it's possible.
	How far is Winnipeg from Toronto?
	Oh, gee, mileage-wise, I don't know, but it's...
	It's at least a thousand miles.
	A thousand miles.
	Now that alone says something.
	Of course it could have been a meteor, and that's what the scientists always say it is, a meteor.
	But on the other hand, it might not be either.
	They just always call it that.
	Because it's easy on the ear, right?
	This is for yesterday's brandy.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	The sister yesterday's brandy.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Post to Post AM, from March 10, 1999.
	love.
	They'll say, they'll say, Brandy, you're a fine girl.
	You're a good wife.
	You would be such a fine girl.
	You could steal a sailor from the sea.
	Brandy.
	Where's the braided chain made of finest silver from the north of Spain?
	A locket that bears the name of a man who crammed it in love
	Be it sight, sound, smell, or touch, there's something inside that we need so much.
	The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sound, or the strength of an oak when it's deep in the ground.
	The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
	Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing?
	To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing?
	To have all these things in our memories whole?
	I'm the user to help us to find.
	I'm the user to help us to find.
	you.
	Why, why was she so, so quick in pace, on this trip, just for me?
	Why, take a free ride, take a rest, I must see, it's my dream
	I was born to take the years, worked so hard just to earn my fears
	Had to end my life before I'd rest, but by now, I am a shivering crow
	We're here.
	This year, Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired March 10, 1999.
	The good news?
	Richard Hoagland is through surgery and still with us.
	The next 48 hours bear careful watching, of course.
	But the surgery is over and Richard is still here.
	Thank you.
	I have nothing more to say but thank you.
	And don't let up.
	The next 48 hours, of course, are always Fairly critical.
	A simple question, just facts to me, which in the title of it is, simple question.
	Are you or are you not a Freemason?
	Yes or no will do.
	Okay?
	Yes or no?
	That's what you get.
	Now look, there's no point in denying that I'm a Freemason, because nobody believes that A, and B, it would remove what little life Bill Cooper has.
	So the answer is yes or no.
	We're going to talk about consciousness here in a moment.
	Again, just one more time, because this blew me away, probably more than anything else that happened during the day, other than the good news about Richard.
	For those of you joining us this hour, this lady, this very nice lady, Jean, after hearing our show about solar flares yesterday, and noting that CNN had a report, sent a fax off to the Soho people, you know, the people at Soho, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, and she sent them an email, and she simply said, CNN reported yesterday that other Stars have been seen expelling super flares.
	How likely is it the sun, she says, will send a super flare our way, and what would the consequences be?
	Now, you would think of that as a fairly legit, honest science question, right?
	Well, the people at SOHO took it.
	And you can look at the trail of email here going from one scientist to another with comments like, um, I wouldn't do a good job with this one.
	Maybe Terry or Barbara.
	And each one of them doesn't comment until finally at the end, it gets to a Soho media specialist, and the only answer our lady gets back to her question is, to quote Paul McCartney, tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the sun.
	That's what our lady got, and he was a little blown away by it.
	Tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the sun.
	Peter Novak may have solved the oldest mystery of all, the secret of death itself.
	self.
	But Peter had never had a personal afterlife experience.
	Never has.
	Had no memories of any past life incarnation.
	No encounters with ghosts, apparitions, angelic beings, or demonic spirits.
	Not even a single near-death experience.
	Nor does he claim to see, hear, or otherwise communicate with the dead.
	People who do have such experiences, Novak is quick to point out, tend to be powerfully prejudiced in favor of the specific form of their own afterlife experience, often at the expense of discounting contradictory reports of quite different experiences.
	Now that in itself would be a show.
	After studying psychology at Purdue University, Novak spent six years As a psychiatric counselor in a small Midwestern hospital, all the while becoming increasingly impressed with how fundamentally relevant the division of consciousness seemed to be to human culture, how profoundly this division seemed to impact even mold human experience by the end of six years, he was convinced that no other challenge the human race faces can equal the interior challenge
	of the disassociation and alienation between conscious and unconscious that exists in the human psyche.
	All other problems, he suspects, were but symptoms of the first and greatest problem.
	Devastated by the tragic death of his wife, Novak walked away from his clinical duties, setting himself on an ambitious but seemingly rather futile quest To decisively determine and understand the true nature of death.
	Guess I could understand that.
	Despite the world's many different and seemingly contradictory reports about death and the afterlife, Novak suspected that a single, simple truth lay hidden behind all.
	And he resolved to find that.
	For the next ten years, Novak poured body and soul into independent research.
	Exploring every conceivable approach to understanding the nature of death and the afterlife, studying psychology, archaeology, physiology, history, theology, comparative religion, mythology, folklore, many varieties of modern parapsychological research, he examined and compared the afterlife beliefs and religious texts of hundreds of cultures, old and new, interviewing and consulting with hundreds of near-death experiencers, Past life regression subjects, ghost reporters, after-life researchers, parapsychologists, theologians, religious scholars around the world.
	As Novak suspected from the beginning, there was a single truth, and it could be discovered.
	His book, The Division of Consciousness, is the story of that search and that discovery.
	Here is Peter Novak.
	Peter, welcome to the program.
	Thank you.
	Where are you actually physically, Peter?
	I'm just outside of South Bend, Indiana.
	South Bend, Indiana.
	All right.
	How old are you now, Peter, may I ask?
	I'm 40.
	You're 40.
	All right.
	How long ago did you lose your wife?
	In 1985.
	1985.
	That's a long time ago, so you were young.
	Yeah, I was in my 20s.
	Um, might we ask what happened?
	Actually, it was a suicide.
	Oh, my God.
	All right.
	I can understand, Peter, that, um, I can surely understand, uh, if that were to occur to me right now, my quest would deepen, and I've been on this quest to understand all the things that you're, that you have been researching, and I can surely understand what drove you then to begin looking into all of this.
	Is it...
	Was she your soul mate?
	I mean, were you two very much in love?
	Yes, we were very close.
	Oh, God.
	So, of course you would want to understand the nature of life, I guess, and death.
	And they're all tied up together sort of when you talk about consciousness, aren't they?
	Right.
	I guess let's begin with a simple sort of 101 on consciousness, Peter.
	What is consciousness?
	How do you define that?
	Well, I would have to go with what psychology has been studying and what it claims to have discovered over the last century.
	I understand that, but going back to just consciousness for a second, so that we can understand that.
	What is consciousness?
	Is it simply self-awareness, awareness of self?
	I'm interested in the division of labor between the two halves.
	I understand that, but going back to just consciousness for a second, so that we can
	understand that.
	What is consciousness?
	Is it simply self-awareness, awareness of self?
	Is that how we define consciousness?
	I would describe it as being awareness, not necessarily of self.
	Awareness.
	Just awareness, huh?
	Of your surroundings, of the demonstration of emotion.
	I'm asking these questions because we're struggling, of course, to understand what consciousness They're working on computers really hard right now, Peter.
	And one day we may get a conscious computer.
	And so would a computer simply being aware constitute a conscious computer?
	Aware of its surroundings?
	Well, there may be a distinction between consciousness and self-aware consciousness might be.
	That's probably an important distinction.
	I think that most people would describe self-aware consciousness, they would equate the two as being consciousness, but I think that there would be such a thing as consciousness without being aware of being conscious.
	Like in some lower animals, they could very easily be aware of a number of things in their environment,
	but they've never actually realized that they are conscious, you know.
	They're more externally oriented.
	I'm struggling with that one too.
	That's another really, really interesting question, and that is whether animals have consciousness, whether animals, in effect, have souls.
	Those may be two separate questions, but I would at the very least believe that animals are conscious.
	Do you have an animal that is close to you, a dog, a cat, something like that?
	I have some pet cats.
	Pet cats?
	I do, too.
	That's what I favor, is cats.
	And I don't think I have any question in my mind about the fact that a cat is conscious, aware of its surroundings, certainly aware of itself, aware of its needs, sometimes so amazingly so that I kind of go, oh, this is one smart cat.
	You know, thinking, obviously thinking about things.
	I can look at a couple of my cats and I can almost see their little cat brains, the wheels turning, you know?
	Of course.
	Anyway, a division of consciousness, however we accept consciousness, a division.
	What do you mean by that?
	I refer to the distinction of the conscious and unconscious habits of the mind.
	you.
	The conscious, science says, is logical and rational and objective.
	It's the side of the mind that makes the decisions, that has free will.
	The unconscious is pretty much the opposite.
	It's subjective and emotional.
	And it possesses the memory, but it's not logical and it does not have free will.
	And it doesn't have free will?
	It doesn't have free will?
	The unconscious, that's what the scientists have been saying for about a century now.
	As a matter of fact, as far as it being possible to be conscious but not being self-aware conscious, I think you might see that sometimes in dreams.
	In dreams, you're aware of what's going on, but you're very often not actually aware that you're aware.
	And you don't really have control.
	There are some people who claim they can control their dreams, but I've never controlled one of mine.
	No, me neither.
	In fact, you've never done a lot of things.
	You've never had an NDE, you've never seen a ghost, you've never done any of that.
	I've done a study of them.
	What did you... I guess I'm jumping to the end of the story, but I guess I can't help myself.
	In studying all of these religions, reports of life after death, and all the rest of this parapsychological stuff, what did you conclude?
	Well, at first I concluded that there were very many different stories about life after death, and none of them seemed to agree with each other.
	But then at one point I realized that plugging what science has discovered about the nature and functions of the mind into the equation all of a sudden all of the different stories and legends and traditions and reports about the afterlife suddenly seemed to make good sense.
	I realized that a simple theory would account for the majority of phenomena that are being reported.
	And that theory was that the two halves of the mind, the conscious and the unconscious, would divide apart at death, and each would go on alone, experiencing the afterlife separately, cut off from the other.
	Oh, that's interesting.
	That the conscious and the unconscious would separate, and both go to the afterlife.
	Now, what have you concluded about reincarnation, if anything?
	Well, I think that the reincarnation scenario is related to the conscious mind, if it were separated from the unconscious after death.
	If the conscious and the unconscious halves of the mind divided apart, the conscious would be left without any memory whatsoever, in total amnesia, but still in full possession of its free will, still able to make new decisions and initiate new experiences, We just started a whole new life and a whole new identity.
	And that sounds an awful lot like reincarnation to me.
	Could I substitute the word soul for conscious?
	The consciousness?
	Well, actually, I relate soul to the unconscious and spirit to the conscious.
	That's really something.
	That's a little confusing for me.
	And the one problem that I've always had with reincarnation is The fact that there is no continuation of consciousness.
	Right.
	What?
	Of memory and of a self-awareness.
	Of any sort of self-awareness at all.
	Right.
	That occurs only seemingly at the unconscious level.
	But you know when people do a hypnotic regression or something like that and deeply probe into a person's background they They find they may have lived another life, but never does the consciousness know it has lived another life.
	Never!
	And so I always wondered, what good is that?
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight, featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM, from March 10, 1999.
	Fly, fly, fly, fly!
	Oh, see that girl?
	Watch that sea, dig in the sand and feel Friday night and the lights are low
	Looking out for a place to go Where the baby white music's getting in the swing
	You've come to look for a dream Anybody could be that guy
	Night is young and the music's high With a bit of rock music, everything's fine
	Don't even lose the dance What the people need is a way to make them smile
	It ain't so hard to do it your way Gotta get a man's beat, get it on through
	Lord, that limo's gonna do half the ride Whoa, whoa, listen to the music
	Whoa, whoa, listen to the music Whoa, whoa, listen to the music
	All the time Well I know you don't know me, but I know you don't know me
	I'm a man of my word, I'm a man of my word Well I know you don't...
	But baby, everything I say Leave me in the comfort of your embrace
	We'll be happy, and you'll say Oh, we're gonna dance the blues away
	If I feel as good to you as you feel to me There ain't nothing we can't do, I say
	Feeling good, feeling fine Oh, baby, just feel me play
	Oh, just feel me play Oh, oh, oh, oh
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 10th, 1999.
	Top of the evening or morning, depending on where you are, everybody.
	Great to be here.
	Peter Novak is my guest.
	Again, before going back to Peter Novak very quickly, you remember
	my...
	My emailer's response from the Soho people.
	Remember that?
	Hmm?
	To quote Paul McCartney, they finally said, stumped, Tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the sun.
	Listen to this.
	Death Flares.
	This is from Discover Magazine, April of 98.
	A Yale astronomer, Bradley Schaefer, has some interesting news for those of us who live here on Earth.
	He recently discovered that several nearby stars that closely resemble our very own sun can become violent, shooting off flares powerful enough to fly a planet more than a billion, that's a billion with a B, miles away.
	These things are 100 to 10 million times larger than the biggest solar flares ever seen.
	That's from Yale.
	Tomorrow may rain so I'll follow the sun.
	I'm going to remember that forever.
	Back now to my guest Peter Novak.
	We're talking about consciousness and actually a little bit about reincarnation and where I left off with you Peter was that I've always pondered and I sort of lean toward the concept of reincarnation but I wondered always what good is it in the sense that I have no memories of any prior life, none whatsoever, and without those memories, what have I learned and how am I progressing?
	You're not.
	That's what I say!
	I'm not progressing.
	Exactly right.
	I do think that reincarnation occurs, but I think the fact that we lose our memories is a colossal cosmic mistake.
	I think it's something actually related to the mythologies That we find in the Bible as far as Adam and Eve and all that.
	Whoa, you can't just do that.
	Did you say mythology involving Adam and Eve?
	Well, the various creation myths.
	Creation myths?
	Did you say creation myths?
	Right.
	Okay.
	I think that they speak of actual events that occurred in which The conscious and the unconscious split apart for the first time.
	I think that was when we started reincarnating without remembering.
	Wow.
	You know, if you look at the processes of how people say we reincarnate, it doesn't make any sense.
	Why would we go over these over and over and over again if we just lose everything at the end of every round?
	That's right.
	What have we learned?
	Nothing.
	Just down here and play the game again.
	Right.
	From the start.
	But I'm not quite certain what you're saying here.
	You say creation myths.
	Do you believe that there was an Adam and Eve?
	You obviously do not, apparently.
	I would say that the stories are allegorical.
	That they are symbolic of actual events.
	But I don't know that they're as literal.
	Okay, well if you don't think Adam and Eve were literal, then explain How it's allegorical, in other words, what really, if that didn't happen, what happened that caused somebody to make up that story?
	How about that?
	Okay, there are a number of creation stories from cultures all over the world that start the story of existence, start the story of the beginning of mankind and earth and all that, With the same idea of a very early primordial division in which there was a single God-like being or a single substance which divided apart into two parts and then these two parts started to interact with one another.
	There's a lot of different legends that describe this but the most familiar to our culture would be the story of Adam and Eve.
	In which Eve is taken from Adam's side.
	If you actually look at the original Hebrew that the Bible was taken from, you find that the word that is most commonly translated as side or as rib can actually also be translated as side.
	In which case the story is saying that one whole side of Adam was removed from him.
	So Eve was of Adam?
	Eve was half of what had been his whole being.
	I think that was the beginning of the human unconscious.
	Why is it that our minds are divided into two parts?
	When Freud first introduced this idea to the scientific community, the idea that the mind has this lower level that we're not familiar with, this unconscious, He thought it was an aberration.
	He did not think it was natural.
	He said, it obviously exists, there's so much evidence supporting it, but there's something very wrong about this.
	Alright, we have sort of defined consciousness as awareness or even self-awareness.
	How would you define the unconscious mind?
	Is that the mind that we have when we sleep, when we dream?
	Is that the unconscious mind?
	Yes, I would say so.
	It's also The mind that brings, that gives us our memories, that gives us our emotions, that gives us our intuition.
	Isn't that something?
	Because I would have thought it the other way around, that that would have been an artifact, those would be artifacts of the conscious mind, not the unconscious.
	Well, according to what science has been discovering and Describing for the last century that that is the distinction, the division of labor in the mind is that one half is logical, half on the other side is the side that has the emotion and the memory.
	And you think it is a big mistake that there was a division of this conscious and unconscious?
	Well, I think alienation might be better.
	I think there has always been A differentiation.
	In order for consciousness to exist, you have to have an interplay between the objective and the subjective, right?
	Yes, yes, of course.
	But if these two parts are not merely differentiated to the point that they can interact, but if they're actually disassociated and alienated from each other, then you have problems.
	I think that when people go through their lives and they're forever Alienating themselves from their own unconscious, ignoring their own emotions, their own feelings, their own pangs of regret.
	Intuition?
	All that.
	I think that every time you push these things back, pushing them back down out of your conscious mind, you're splitting your own mind apart a little bit more and then when you die you finally discover what you did to yourself.
	You end up going off in two different directions.
	Two different directions.
	And you are saying, in essence, that the conscious, what we have called the conscious portion of ourselves, reincarnates.
	Well, that would seem to be supported by what science says about how the mind works.
	What's interesting, you mentioned earlier about the past life regression.
	Yes.
	And if the two halves of the mind divide apart, The conscious mind would be left without any emotion or memory.
	And without memory, it wouldn't have any ability to put any incoming data into any kind of context.
	And it wouldn't be able to recognize anything around it, because it wouldn't be able to... No, it starts from ground zero.
	Right.
	It gets spanked, it draws air, and it begins deciding that bottles and nipples are good.
	Right.
	And then it goes from there.
	So it starts out at ground zero.
	In the beginning, at ground zero, there would be with no feeling or emotion and no sense
	of context.
	You would feel yourself to be floating utterly alone in nothingness, having no memory of
	who it is or what it was, having no emotion.
	You go back all the way to the embryo, actually.
	Well, actually, beyond that, if you read the reports about past life regression and you
	read reports of what people have said when they were regressed to a point in between
	lives, they describe that exact thing.
	They're sitting there, they're floating in nothingness.
	They recognize nothing around them.
	They don't recall their name.
	They don't recall actually ever having had any other life or any other existence other than floating.
	They have no memory, I mean no emotion.
	They're very calm and passionless.
	And in a kind of a limbo, a dark motionless limbo.
	And all that, all those details are exactly what you would expect them to experience if They were a conscious mind that had been broken off, separated from their unconscious mind.
	All right.
	Let's say I accept that.
	And now let me ask you about the unconscious portion of the mind at death.
	What occurs to that?
	Well, that explains a lot of things.
	It explains ghosts.
	It explains near-death experiences.
	It explains traditions of heaven and hell.
	As far as the near-death experience... Traditions of heaven and hell.
	Traditions of heaven and hell.
	The implication of that statement is that there is not heaven and hell as we understand it.
	I just meant that our traditions of heaven and hell go back farther, our reports of heaven and hell go back farther than merely modern day stories of near-death experiences.
	So then your studies would lead you to conclude there is in fact a heaven and hell?
	I would conclude, my studies would conclude that people do experience heavens and hells.
	I don't know that there is a single one of each.
	I think there may be an infinite variety of experiences.
	But what's interesting about the near-death experiences is that if, okay, when people First, leave their bodies in a near-death experience.
	Yes.
	Very, very commonly, they will report floating above their body.
	Oh, yes.
	Being very calm and peaceful.
	Absolutely.
	Unperturbed and dispassionate.
	Even watching people trying to revive them in many cases.
	All kinds of things.
	Oh, yes.
	Now, this would be a very traumatic experience.
	You've gone through something physically traumatic and something Totally unprecedented has happened.
	You're left your body.
	This is not a time to be emotionally relaxed.
	This is a time to be very passionately involved in what's going on.
	But people are... Totally panicked, actually.
	...just the opposite.
	Totally panicked, actually.
	Right.
	Like, oh my God!
	I'm out of my body!
	Look at my body!
	It's wrecked!
	Yeah.
	So you would imagine panic?
	I think that this is another piece of evidence suggesting that their unconscious, the half of their mind that produces emotion, has been separated from them at that point.
	But in the case of people who have NDEs, there is a recombination of the unconscious and the conscious.
	At a later point, I believe that that recombination seems to occur at the time of the memory review.
	at the time of the memory review.
	You mean like the past? People call it, experiencers call it the life review.
	I'm sure you know of Daniel Brinkley.
	Sure.
	He's a good friend of mine.
	Very good friend.
	I talked to him earlier today, in fact.
	Stricken with the flu at the moment.
	But he had a very, very, very intense full life review.
	He was not a good person when he was younger.
	And he had to, he said, live the experiences of those he had treated poorly.
	As they felt them.
	He felt them as, you know, as he had dished it out.
	I think that the characteristics of the mind of the unconscious would absolutely insist that that sort of a memory review would occur if the mind divided apart at death.
	If the unconscious divided away from the conscious mind.
	It would be cut off from all logical thought processes, which would effectively isolate
	it from all objective reality.
	Its experience from that point on would be limited to subjectively reviewing, processing
	and reacting to its own inner contents, its stored up memories.
	But that, in order to in effect feel what others felt from you and review your own life
	in itself, would seem to me to be a conscious exercise.
	you.
	No, I think it'd probably be automatic.
	But in order to review it, to be subjective about it, you would have to be able to consider it, feel it, experience it?
	Okay, but these are all subjective processes that I think would occur automatically.
	The unconscious, one very interesting thing to me about the unconscious mind that science has been saying for the last hundred years, is that the unconscious mind contains within itself, it's hardwired into the system that it has a moral awareness, a moral quality to it, a natural awareness for issues of right and wrong.
	So I think that when The unconscious found itself isolated and alone and didn't have anything else to do but go back and start reviewing its memories.
	As it did that, it would become acutely aware of all violations of its own moral sense as it relates to those memories.
	It has no choice.
	It has absolutely no choice.
	This process occurs.
	Period.
	Right.
	And the unconscious is also emotional and reactive.
	It's automatically emotional and automatically reactive.
	And so as it was going through those memories, And it was judging them, basically saying, this is right, that was wrong, this is right, that was wrong.
	It would react to those judgments emotionally.
	If judgments that it saw, that it felt were good, it would react by feeling good.
	If those judgments were poor, it would react by feeling poor.
	And then we also know that the unconscious is very imaginative, you know, it's very fertile.
	As it was going through these memory reviews and these judgments and these reactions, it would build up elaborate dream world fantasies revolving around all of those things.
	I think it would create its own heaven out of its sense of joy from those memories.
	Or its own hell.
	Right, from its own agony.
	It would then in effect Sentence itself to a period of joy or a period of... I don't know what's the right word.
	A period of... I don't know exactly like punishment, but self-inflicted agony over the guilt.
	Right.
	And what's interesting is that if the unconscious was isolated like that, these experiences would fill its entire field of awareness.
	They would become absolute, intense, ever-increasing.
	Whatever joy I felt would be an absolute joy.
	Whatever agony I felt would be an absolute agony.
	On that note, hold on, Peter.
	Peter Novak is my guest.
	His book, The Division of Consciousness, time after time.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Time after time, do we just keep coming back and doing it again?
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 10th, 1999.
	The song is called, I'm Not Gonna Cry. It's a song about the pain of losing someone you love.
	It's a song about the pain of losing someone you love.
	You could read my mind, love, what a tale my thoughts could tell.
	Just like an old time movie about a ghost from a wishing well.
	In a castle dark, on a lonely night.
	Or a partridge strung with chains upon my feet You know that ghost is me And I will never be set free As long as I'm a ghost you can't see If I could read your mind, love What a tale your thoughts could tell Just like a paperback novel, the kind the drugstore sells.
	When you reach the part where the heartaches come, the hero would be me.
	Fascinating.
	I'll never be set free as long as I'm a ghost you can't see.
	Gordon Lightfoot.
	Maybe my guest will have a take on that one.
	by the non-co-presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 10, 1999.
	Fascinating.
	I'll never be set free as long as I'm a ghost you can't see.
	Gordon Lifelin.
	Maybe my guest will have a take on that one.
	Anyway, we'll get back to my guest in a moment.
	I've got several interesting responses to Peter Novak already.
	I've.
	The first I want to read you is this one.
	Hi Art.
	I've just got to share this with you.
	We have an unconscious cat.
	This cat is so stupid that it has to think, what was that when it sees a mouse?
	I heard a noise the other night, says Phil from New Hampshire.
	Went out to the kitchen and here's my unconscious cat.
	Playing it safe with a mouse, not getting too close to it, but wanting to watch it.
	Now that's an unconscious cat.
	Zero mice caught in two years.
	But I love her anyway.
	fill-in glenn new hampshire but but but but but but
	uh... pop pop uh... then uh... i guess you'll be able to tell what kind
	of response uh... this is uh...
	It simply says, what a loser this guy is.
	God is consciousness.
	Don't you know?
	Read.
	Understand.
	Everything has consciousness because God is everything.
	Care to respond to that in any way at all?
	Well, actually, I would tend to agree, but... If you would speak right into the phone for us.
	I would tend to agree, but I think that, again, you have the division that has to be taken into account.
	In the Bible and in a number of other traditions, God seems to have two different sides to him.
	In the Bible, the Bible talks about God having both a soul and a spirit.
	And it's interesting that they describe these as being very similar to the way that modern science describes the conscious and the unconscious.
	God's spirit is very often Shown to be speaking or thinking or acting, whereas his soul is shown to be feeling or to be remembering.
	These are all classic characteristics associated with the conscious and the unconscious.
	Alright, maybe this will help.
	Art, a thought.
	Perhaps Peter could walk us through a typical NDE.
	And explain what happens as it reflects his theory of the conscious and the unconscious.
	In other words, the typical NDE.
	What does a person go through?
	I've interviewed many, but I'd like to get your take.
	What is a typical NDE, Peter?
	Well, I'm not entirely sure that in an NDE, because they do come back, I don't know that there is a final An absolute division that does occur between the conscious and the unconscious.
	Well said.
	I think that there is some degree of splitting, but I don't think it's total.
	I got you.
	That split only occurs when you're really dead, dead, all the way dead.
	Dead as in not coming back for several days, weeks, months, years, ever.
	But some of the things that people do report do reflect this division in process.
	Like when they first separate from the body and they describe not having any emotion or feeling, that suggests that there's been some division.
	Yes, sir.
	And the person at that point is speaking from the perspective of the conscious mind alone.
	Yes, sir.
	I understand exactly what you're saying.
	Where do you believe that the wife that you tragically lost is now?
	Well, actually that had a lot to do with the whole beginning of my Of course it would.
	Yes, of course.
	When my wife died, she left a daughter just five months old at the time.
	One of the things I kept on thinking about was, what am I going to tell her about where her mother is now?
	That's how my whole search started.
	Did you say five months old?
	Five months old, yes.
	As far as where she is now?
	Well I would imagine, my theory does not say that everyone always divides apart, that the conscious and unconscious.
	The evidence does not seem to suggest that this always happens, but it does suggest that it happens frequently, maybe even most of the time.
	So I would suggest that part of her is in some kind of an unconscious dream world reality and the other half perhaps has reincarnated by now.
	Did you see the movie, You Must Have, What Dreams May Come?
	Sure, of course.
	Did you regard that as perhaps in some way consistent with what you've been telling us tonight?
	Parts of it were and parts of it did not seem to be.
	The unconscious does seem, the experience of the unconscious after death, it would seem
	to be that thought would form its reality very quickly.
	Whatever it thought about, that would be immediately what it experienced.
	Very much a subjective thing, very much like in a dream.
	As soon as you think of it, there it is.
	On the other hand, if this division does occur, then in that unconscious dream world, there
	isn't any such thing as choosing or deciding.
	It's all pretty much an automatic process.
	It just happens.
	Right.
	All right.
	Somebody else wrote to me, never say never, Art.
	Well, I have learned that.
	You simply have not met an advanced soul who does remember.
	There are not many of those in the Western world.
	In fact, this whole world, Earth, for this world, is nothing more than a child.
	And what child of one year of age can even remember yesterday?
	Interesting.
	And true.
	There are a lot of people who do claim to remember past lives.
	Well, I'm not one of them.
	No, I'm not either.
	I'm not either, but you have to acknowledge that these reports are out there.
	I'm not entirely sure how integrated these people are as far as, you know, do they simply I don't know how long it takes to reincarnate.
	I think it's possible.
	It could be that she's still floating in that nothingness.
	Maybe they do that for years.
	I don't know how long it takes to reincarnate. I think it's possible. It could be that she's still floating in that
	nothingness. Maybe they do that for years.
	Well, surely because of your particular tragedy and interest, you must have had particular attention to those
	who take their own lives.
	What have you concluded about that?
	Is there a difference?
	I would expect that people who do that are more divided, or as divided as a human being can be, and I would consider it very unlikely that they would end up If there is such a thing as a division between the conscious and the unconscious after death, I think they would be some of the people most certain to go through that division.
	The traditional concept of reincarnation is that you keep coming back until you more or less get it right.
	Isn't that, that's oversimplified, but is that about right?
	That's a very common interpretation, yes.
	So that somebody who might take their own life, for example, would be seen as certainly not getting it right and would be more likely to divide and return.
	Right.
	Do I have that right?
	That makes sense to me, yeah.
	Okay.
	You investigated ghosts?
	Yes, and again I found them to be A lot of the reports seem to be very similar with the concept of the mind explaining the different kinds of ghosts.
	You know, one of the most commonly reported kind of a ghost is the sleepwalking ghost, the haunting ghost, the one that goes through the same motions over and over and over again, wearing really, really old clothing.
	Walking through old buildings, possibly even through old floor plans that don't even exist anymore.
	That's right.
	I call it the tape loop ghost.
	Right.
	This is exactly the sort of behavior that you would expect from an unconscious if it were separated from its conscious mind.
	It would be left without any rational intellect, totally subjective and isolated from objective reality, running on full automatic Reviewing its memories, experiencing them again and again and again.
	You're the first one.
	You're the first one that has ever, Peter, explained that to me in a way I could understand.
	Now that suddenly makes sense.
	If there is a division, that would explain the tape loop ghost.
	Gosh, that's fascinating.
	Now there's another kind of ghost that is less commonly reported.
	It's like a lost soul kind of ghost.
	Yes.
	And I think that could very well be the conscious mind when it's separated from the unconscious.
	It would have perfect and total amnesia, and it would be unable to recall or perceive any meaning or pattern or context in anything it encountered.
	It might not even know it's dead.
	Right.
	It wouldn't know much of anything.
	It wouldn't make sense out of anything that it saw.
	Wandering aimlessly, lost, confused.
	It's a very commonly reported type of ghost.
	Not as common as the other one, of course.
	That makes all the sense in the world.
	So, what kind of transition did you make in your own mind as you began investigating all of this?
	Do you think that you arrived at the conclusions you arrived at Because you wanted to or because of objective research?
	You understand the nature of that question?
	Obviously you were emotionally impacted by the suicide of your wife and so have you ever wondered yourself, Peter, whether your conclusions are a result of your experience?
	I have been very reluctant to embrace these conclusions Simply because, you know, basically what I'm saying is that I've discovered an explanation that makes sense of all the different afterlife reports and traditions and that's a very big claim to make.
	Yes it is.
	And so I have reviewed the research and the material and the data again and again and again and still I have been hesitant You know, when I first discovered this, and I first came across this theory that seemed to put it all together, that made sense, I thought I was going crazy.
	I thought, this isn't possible.
	This kind of answer people are never going to find.
	No one is going to find this answer.
	That's a belief that a lot of people have today, and it's a belief that inside of me, I guess I had a little bit.
	I was very reluctant to even consider the fact that an answer I would have found it anyway.
	So I kept on looking and reviewing the research, but the fact is that the material out there, the afterlife reports as well as the ancient traditions from religions, they all fit into this pattern.
	According to this one little idea that the conscious and the unconscious divide apart, it explains virtually all of the evidence I have encountered.
	How do you think the traditional psychology, you studied psychology at Purdue, how do you think the traditional psychology community would react to your findings?
	Well, about 50 years ago, they would have been a lot more interested in them than they would be now because for the last 50 years, 30 years anyway, the study of psychology has gone a lot more into trying to explain Everything in terms of brain function, in terms of just a piece of meat.
	A piece of meat.
	But earlier than that, the origins of psychology with Freud and Jung described the mind as being independent of the body.
	Their research described the two halves of the mind that I'm interested in the conscious and the unconscious.
	That was back in the first half of the century.
	That view of the nature of the mind got a big boost about 15 years ago with the book, Right Brain, Left Brain, which again supported the idea that there were two very different halves of the mind functioning in these ways.
	Then that view got another big boost just last year with the The book of two minds written by Frederick Schiffer, a professor at Harvard, which again is talking about the mind having two, again supporting the traditional Freudian view of the mind with the conscious and unconscious.
	Alright, when you go back, you've labeled Adam and Eve is sort of an allegorical thing, and creation, what is it you believe about creation?
	Let there be light.
	Any thoughts on that?
	I think that those stories to some degree reflect the beginnings of self-aware consciousness within reality, within God itself perhaps.
	The first time that objective thought and subjective thought
	Differentiate from each other enough that they could interact you know if you have an eye staring off blankly
	into space It's never going to see itself realize that it's there and
	that it's conscious you need that mirror the unconscious the subject has
	Subjective part for it to reflect back upon itself so we can see and say yes. I see myself
	I am aware right we're going to take a break here at the bottom of the hour and when we come back
	I want to take a few phone calls and see what all of you think.
	Peter Novak is my guest, and his book is The Division of Consciousness.
	I do have one more question, which goes back to the Bible.
	What about he who walked 2,000 years ago?
	Allegorical or real?
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 10, 1999.
	Coast to Coast is a new music video from the band Coast to Coast.
	The band is based on the song, which was written by the late Michael Jackson.
	The song is about a man who is lost in a desert and he is searching for his lost love.
	In the middle of a history class, I turned my collar to the cold and damp.
	When my eyes were stared by the flash of a neon light, it split the night.
	And in the baby light I saw Ten thousand people, maybe more People talking without speaking People hearing without listening Good morning, everybody.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired March 10, 1999.
	Perhaps people in the void.
	Disturbing sound.
	Good morning, everybody. I'm Art Bell. My guest Peter Novak will be right back.
	Sound of thunder.
	I've got this fax from Boston, I think.
	Yup.
	Hello from Boston, it says.
	The fax is entitled, I sold my soul on eBay.
	How are you, Art?
	I fell in love with your show on a road trip to Atlanta last year and been listening ever since.
	Say, you know that online auctions I had eBay?
	Well, I was paying them my daily visit the other night and discovered the strangest thing.
	People selling their souls.
	Some souls are getting upwards of 10 million dollars.
	Some souls even come with bonus cat souls.
	If you do a search for a human soul, you'll see what I'm talking about.
	What are you looking for?
	He goes on, now... I'm not the one to say if this is all humor or if it's for real, but can you imagine if people are actually paying for other people's souls?
	Please respond in any way you can.
	If you can get online during the show, I suggest you do it, and read a couple of the auctions on air.
	For instance, one human soul slightly damaged due to a lightning strike.
	Thanks for your time, and good night, Scott in Boston.
	Well, I'm going to have to give that a try, Scott.
	I don't know, what are you looking for?
	Hi there, Peter, welcome back.
	Hi, thanks for having me.
	I want to give you an opportunity, we're going to go to the phones here in this segment, but I want to give you an opportunity to plug your book, The Division of Consciousness.
	Where is that book available?
	It's available at most of the big bookstores, you know, Barnes & Noble, Borders, that sort of thing, and of course you can get it on the internet at Amazon.com.
	And I think we've got a link to that on my website, so they could go there.
	All right.
	Very good.
	So, available nationally and Amazon.com through my website, blah, blah, blah.
	So, that's good.
	That's easy.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Peter Novak.
	Good morning to you.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Nice to talk to you, Art.
	I'm calling from Bellingham, Washington, KGIM 790.
	This is Sonny.
	Yes, Sonny.
	I'd like to pose a question to Mr. Novak.
	Yes.
	Is it possible, or which side of the brain do you think, if it's possible, formed first, the right or the left?
	I would say it would be the right formed first, because it found that it couldn't survive without the left.
	You couldn't wrestle a rhino to the ground with feelings.
	You have to have some logic on the left-hand side.
	And if my theory is true, would the two sides now be working and evolving toward a third, let's say a third of a third of a third of a brain instead of just two halves?
	That's my question.
	Good night, Art.
	I'm going to lift it off the air.
	All right, all right, all right.
	Which part of the brain evolved first, do you think, Peter, right or left?
	Well, actually, I think that they probably evolved simultaneously, and they then slowly differentiated.
	There was originally a single... I don't know where I'm talking about the brain so much as the mind itself.
	I don't identify the two.
	Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
	In other words, you have been sort of preaching throughout all this that the separation between what the psychologists are now looking at in modern day is the meat that we are, the physical meat that we are, versus the immortal aspects of ourselves, yes?
	Right, exactly.
	Okay, that's what I thought it was.
	Alright, in that case we'll not discuss the other part.
	One quick question before we go back to phones, and that is, That man who walked around here a couple thousand years ago, described in the Bible, allegorical or absolutely?
	I think that that was not only a true story, I think that's the whole linchpin of history and the linchpin of this theory that I'm talking about.
	If this theory is correct, and we do divide, and most people divide apart a death, we keep on losing our souls, we keep on losing our unconscious Minds and all of our memories and all of our egos, life after life after life, and they just keep building up and building up and building up in the collective unconscious, I assume.
	And they would be forever lost to us, if not for what that man did 2,000 years ago.
	I think that through his, this is rather complicated, I don't know if I can explain it all over the phone, but I believe that what he did allowed, was the thing that allowed The Judgment Day prophecies to actually be possible, that they could be fulfilled, which of course you know that one of the most important things about that is that all the dead from all past history is supposed to rise back up again.
	Yes, I know.
	I think that what he did made that possible.
	But what's interesting is that if this theory is true, if reincarnation is true, then all those people, all those past dead that are supposed to return again in the last day, They're not going to return in separate bodies, but instead they're going to be popping up from within the backs of our own minds, popping back up to consciousness within our own skulls.
	And we're going to suddenly have, what, dozens or hundreds of other people floating around inside of our own bodies at the same time.
	Wow, what a mess that's going to be.
	Because a lot of the Old Testament prophecies about Judgment Day describe that very thing.
	They talk about an invasion.
	judgment day would be the time of a great invasion.
	They describe the invading army as being ancient and enduring, the most ruthless of all peoples.
	If it was an army of the recently risen from the dead souls, they would be both ancient
	and enduring.
	As people who quite literally knew what it meant to be dead, they would indeed be very
	ruthless.
	All right.
	Fascinating.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hello there.
	Yeah, Art.
	This is Alan from Salem.
	Okay.
	Meet Peter Novak and Art Bell.
	Hi, Peter.
	Hi.
	I've got something I wanted to ask you here.
	That man you're talking about that existed 2,000 years ago, it talks about him in the book, removing demons from people who are possessed.
	Now, these demons can move from person to person.
	And they don't die, they just keep moving down the line.
	In the Bible it's written that everyone is to be born in the flesh only once.
	Now my idea on this is the fact that these demons possess memories, and they can go into one person, bring the memories from the last person they were in to that person, and this is the general Consensus that most Christians have because, of course, most Christians don't believe in reincarnation.
	So, in other words, what he is thinking of reincarnation, you view as a demon jumping from one mortal to another.
	And bringing those memories and fooling the person into thinking they were that person even though those memories were brought to that person by that demon.
	Clearly, I understand.
	It's just something I wanted to throw in there.
	I'll let you go now.
	All right.
	I sure appreciate your show.
	All right.
	Thank you very much.
	Peter, there's one for you.
	Well, I think that such things as demons do exist, and in fact, I think that they are composed of, composites of, you know, discolored souls within the collective unconscious.
	I think that most people when they do, I don't think that first of all, there's very many people that do recall their past life memories.
	But what's interesting is that most of the people that do seem to be, they don't seem to present any indications of being possessed.
	On the contrary, they seem to be exceptionally, people of exceptional integrity and honor and even spirituality.
	So I think that it's a...
	It would be a poor argument to make to say that these people are possessed when they actually seem to have some of the highest examples of human... All right.
	Boy, I understand what you're saying.
	Boy, have I got a call for you, I think.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Peter Novak.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Where are you, dear?
	I'm in South Carolina.
	South Carolina.
	My name is Brenda.
	Brenda.
	All right.
	I saw on a program, I think it was called The Other Side, Where if you asked a child that was three or under if they remembered their having died, that a lot of them could.
	So I tried it on my granddaughter.
	Oh, you did?
	Yes.
	And she scared me to death.
	What did she say?
	What did she say, Brenda?
	She told me, yes, that she remembered three men broke into her house And they were trying to take her, and she all of a sudden dropped her head, and she says, Grandma, I wish I hadn't screamed and woke Mommy up, because they killed Mommy.
	Oh my God.
	And it was... Now this, she was three?
	Yes.
	How did you ask her exactly?
	How did you ask her?
	I just said, Jessica, do you remember when you died?
	And she said, yeah.
	Wow!
	She started telling me about it.
	Wow!
	It scared me.
	Believe me, I understand.
	Peter, have you done any research into this sort of thing?
	There's a book that's been written on this, on the past life memories of children.
	I don't remember the name of it actually, but it's something that came out in the last few years.
	Yeah, I think that kids seem to be able to have more memory of the past lives than adults do.
	Very fascinating.
	Again, this would support the idea that in order to obtain these memories, you have to have some degree of integrity, which kids do and they don't lose until they get older.
	Brenda, how old is that child now?
	She's five.
	She's five.
	You know, in a few years, you ought to try it again and see what you get.
	I tried it on her sister and it didn't work on her.
	She just laughed at me.
	And how old was she?
	She was like two when I asked her.
	She was two and she laughed?
	Right.
	She just laughed about it.
	She wouldn't tell me anything.
	So I figured she just didn't remember because she seemed really puzzled by it.
	But her older sister, she had a problem after relating this to me.
	She started having nightmares about the men breaking in and getting her and her mother.
	Wow.
	Wow that's absolutely remarkable Brenda and I'm not sure whether to say you have random anecdotal evidence and whether you shouldn't have asked that question or whether you really do have something significant but that's really something.
	I didn't want to believe in reincarnation until she was so Uh, sincere about it and went into such detail about it.
	Sure, sure.
	Did you, did you do any research?
	Did you ask her what was your name or anything like that?
	No, I didn't because it freaked me out so bad.
	I hear that.
	It was bothering her too and I just wanted her to forget about it and talk about something else.
	Brenda, thank you.
	Uh, that is, that is remarkable.
	That is really remarkable and it would, it certainly would scream for more research.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Peter Novak.
	Hi.
	Good evening, Art.
	First, I'd like to say my thoughts with Richard.
	Thank you.
	The gentleman who keeps attacking him.
	Well, personally, I think he's mentally impotent for attacking someone for their beliefs.
	Well, no.
	Mentally impotent not for that, but for attacking not for beliefs, not for uh... data points but personal
	at hominem attacks just to attack that's uh...
	pretty lame i mean i mean if somebody was attacked
	what you believe them to hang no problem if they want to attack
	your your uh... theories your data your logic uh... whatever that is that's that's fine
	That's supposed to happen, and better happen, or we're not being honest with each other.
	But when you just attack a person's character, that's a different story.
	True enough, true enough.
	Anyway.
	My question is, for your guest, why would they so-called, I guess, recycle the conscious half instead of the subconscious?
	I mean, wouldn't there be, like, wouldn't it be better, actually, to, you know, recycle the subconscious?
	Well, as far as being able to retain what you've done over the course of a life, yeah, sure, that would be better.
	I don't know that it's a matter of everything being designed this way.
	I'm pretty much convinced that the whole division and the loss of memory was a mistake.
	It's an error that has been introduced into a system that was working properly before that error occurred.
	I think that the whole biblical idea about history, about there being a fall from grace and then Jesus came to correct it and then at judgment day everything is going to get restored to the way it was before, I think that all fits into this.
	That the fall from grace was when we first started doing this dividing and things haven't been working right since.
	All right.
	Anyway, thank you, Art.
	All right, thank you, sir.
	And you too, Wild Card Line.
	You're on the air with Peter Novak.
	Oh, hi.
	Yeah, I'm calling from Honolulu, KHBH.
	Oh, yes.
	And then it sounds like we are in a three-dimensional world with time.
	So before we're born, I guess we're in an infinite time.
	Well, there's no time.
	A place where there is no time.
	Yes, I quite agree with you.
	And I think that Peter does as well.
	Yeah.
	Both the conscious, or both the soul and the spirit, whether you're talking about the spirit weighing in between lives, or the soul and it's a dream world, neither one seems to experience time the same way that we do, according to the reports.
	Yeah, I think the unconscious, if that's eternal, that would be like the Akashic Records that Indians talk about, yeah?
	Right, right.
	So that would be the eternal thing, and then our consciousness we get from birth because we enter this three dimension with time, yeah?
	Yes.
	Yeah, and then, let's see, oh yeah, and then what you were talking about before, the grace, that would be like when we're in this, another dimension that's, you know, beyond time.
	Before we're born.
	Right.
	Independent of time, I suppose.
	One could imagine doing research.
	If you go back to the lady who was on the air with us a little while ago, who was so fascinating, I think it was Brenda.
	If you were to do a more involved investigation, if you didn't get freaked out, and I'm like Brenda, I would have freaked out, but if you could actually get a name and a place and a time to go with What occurred, the way you were killed or died in the prior life, then you could actually do research and you could endeavor to prove that and you do that from a two or three year old and baby I'm not sure how you argue against that one if you do the research.
	That research has been ongoing.
	Ian Stevenson from University of Virginia has spent his whole life How would anybody possibly dispute that?
	I don't know, but they do.
	I just can't understand how they would dispute it.
	that supports those stories about people and places and events from the past.
	How would anybody possibly dispute that?
	I don't know, but they do.
	I just can't understand how they would dispute it.
	Not from a two or three year old.
	All right.
	You have been very, very, very interesting to have on the air, and I hope that people will run out and get your book.
	I hope so, too.
	Thank you.
	It has been a pleasure to have you on the air, Peter, and you've given me a lot to think about.
	And the high point of the night for me, I discuss this kind of thing all the time, has been the explanation, rather elegant, I must say, of what I call the The tape reel or the tape loop ghost.
	No one has ever ever ever answered that one for me until you came around.
	How long did you take to write this book Peter?
	I started the research well after my wife died and I came up with this theory in 1988 and it took me Nine years to write the book and find the publisher.
	Nine years.
	That's a lot of research.
	That's a whole lot of research.
	Yeah, it is.
	And there's an awful lot of it that ended up in the book.
	All right.
	In that case, people have a lot to look forward to.
	Peter, again, my thanks for coming on the air with me, and you've given me a lot to think about.
	Thank you.
	All right.
	Good night.
	That is Peter Novak, and his book is The Division of Consciousness.
	And that is indeed something to consider, isn't it?
	All right, what we are going to do with the remainder of the evening, another couple hours, is nothing but open lines.
	Unscreened, unpredictable, the complete unknown.
	If you want to... Brenda was a particularly interesting call, wasn't she?
	If you would like to respond to what Brenda had to say, if you have an answer for that that would make some sense, I'd like to hear it.
	I just can't imagine any reasonable answer to what a three-year-old would say about an immediate response with an absolute story about how she died.
	That really is eerie, isn't it?
	Alright, we're going to break here at the top of the hour, and when we come back, Two hours of the absolute unknown.
	So, if you've got something you'd like to slip in, here we are.
	From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
	The news on Richard Hoagland good.
	Richard has come through the operation intact and is in recovery.
	And we're going to have to watch him very closely for the next 48 hours, let's say.
	And get him out of the woods, so if you've been thinking good thoughts, don't stop.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 10, 1999.
	Thank you for watching. Please subscribe.
	You never see what you want to see.
	Forever playing to the gallery.
	You take the long way home.
	You take the long way home.
	When you're up on stage, it's so unbelievable.
	Oh, I forget I love you.
	I may adore you.
	Then your wife seems to think you're losing your sanity Oh, calamity
	With an old way out Oh, yeah
	Oh, yeah Feel that your life's become a catastrophe
	Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time
	Tonight's program originally aired March 10, 1999 That's Ross Mitchell
	Voice of Ross Mitchell.
	And he's making... Since my area code has changed... Actually, it's in the process of change.
	I really feel so violated about that, incidentally.
	He's making new bumpers, and I offered up a suggestion today.
	If he doesn't, it's really going to be a cool bumper.
	Number bumper.
	Anyway, there'll be a new one soon because of my new area code.
	Has that happened to you?
	For a while, you feel violated.
	They have taken your number.
	Soon, your name.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hey.
	Hey.
	Change that dial.
	Yeah.
	Don't touch that dial.
	Okay.
	Very good.
	How you doing, dude?
	I'm, well, pretty good, actually.
	You gonna hang out with me until you get back on?
	Well, I am back on.
	Oh, outstanding.
	Hey, listen, about six months ago, a couple months ago... Which means you're on, too.
	Okay.
	See what I'm saying?
	Yeah, I've got you.
	We're both on the air.
	Okay, well, I'm in the other room, also.
	I'm looking for this guy you had on about six months ago.
	Yes.
	And he had said that he saw some sort of plasmic energy type being thing falling through the ceilings and cats could see him and people could see him coming out of the corner of their eyes.
	Not out of the corner of their eyes, but you could see it.
	I remember that, but I don't remember who it was either.
	No, you know, I vaguely remember seeing some of these things.
	You always turn your head and you kind of think you see things.
	Yes.
	And I was just wondering if I could, well, you can't remember, so I guess I can't get the information.
	Things seen at the edge of vision.
	It's a line I used for DreamWorks.
	That, the things seen at the edge of vision.
	Edge of vision, yes.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Well, I was just, you know, scratching my head, hardly, just trying to get back to that sort of, That date when you were talking about it, you know, I was trying to... You guys are on such late at night.
	I know.
	You know.
	I know, well, you know, there is, of course, Dreamland, right?
	Uh, don't you know?
	I, uh, I sat down and I concentrated really, really hard on what to say for Dreamland, how to frame what Dreamland is about, which also now really is what Coast is about, too.
	Listen to the words in the opening to Dreamland.
	Listen to what I say.
	Because I thought hard about it before I wrote it.
	And it's right on the money.
	Listen to this.
	Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put
	in a box.
	Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped, and yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
	This is Dreamland.
	I thought really hard when I wrote that about What I wanted the program to be.
	What I wanted the whole concept to be.
	And that explains it very well indeed.
	And that's really what we do here now as well.
	Things seen at the edge of vision.
	And there are a lot of things like that, aren't there?
	Whether you see them for real or see them in your mind's eye.
	Sometimes you catch a glimpse of them at the edge of vision.
	Sometimes it's just a mental thing.
	But they're as real as the telephone lines blinking in front of me.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, how you doing?
	Just fine, sir.
	Is this Art?
	Good guess.
	Okay, I'm sorry.
	I had to turn off my radio.
	I'm the only one here, so when I answer the phone, that's the only possibility.
	It's got to be me.
	Okay, sorry about that.
	Hey, by the way, my name's Bill.
	I'm calling from St.
	Cloud, Minnesota.
	Yes, Bill.
	Okay, I sent you a little email just a little while back indicating that on July 5th, Wednesday of 1999, you're going to receive a vision that is going to unlock your understanding.
	Me personally?
	Yeah, you personally.
	July 5th, huh?
	Well, you're one of those people.
	Actually, all of us are involved with this.
	Are you familiar with non-linear existence?
	No.
	Non-linear existence.
	Well, I mean, I could take that phrase apart and I could guess at its meaning, you know.
	Okay, well, essentially what it is is where you can travel through the past, present, and future without aging, without becoming younger.
	I understand.
	No, believe me, I understand.
	I'll look forward to the vision.
	We talked about that earlier tonight.
	That only in our dimension, in our three dimensions, do we have an understanding of time, or does time have meaning at all?
	And that it may well be that, for example, when we die, we go to a place that virtually has no time, nor do we realize the passage of it.
	There's no reference.
	You've really got to let your mind open up To understand and accept that possibility that there would be a place where time would not exist.
	It simply would be not relevant.
	Nor would you notice the passage of anything you would call time.
	It simply isn't there.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	This is Brent from Washington.
	Yes, sir.
	I had an experience where I understood you were looking for this space that a lot of people have.
	I suppose I am.
	I'm looking for it in a very demanding manner, which may mean I'll never find it.
	Okay, experiment number eight, but you have to be kind of down on the rocks to get there.
	That's why a lot of people say Christianity is a crutch, because you've got to lean hard.
	That's what faith is.
	So experiment number eight would be, just ask Jesus Christ one night when you're alone if he's real to show you.
	That's what I did, and I found out.
	It's real.
	Okay, I'm going to tell you a truth.
	Yes, sir.
	I have done that.
	What happened?
	Nothing.
	That's what I mean.
	Keep on.
	Alright, I understand what you're saying, but I've done that.
	Come on, don't think I haven't.
	Haven't you all done that?
	Haven't you ever said Things like, you know, the reborn do, you know, the reborn people out there, there's a lot of them.
	Jesus, if you're there, God, come into my life, give me a sign, that kind of thing, right?
	We all ask ourselves those personal things, so don't think I haven't done that.
	So far, nothing apparent.
	No particular answer, at least one that I would understand.
	I'm sure I've done that, of course, I think everybody has done that.
	Some people seem to get answers and confirmations and others just keep asking.
	Sound of a rocket launching.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air. Hi.
	Hey, what's going on?
	You, right now, so turn your radio off.
	I got it.
	That's good.
	Wait a minute, where are you?
	I am in Phoenix.
	And your first name is?
	Tim.
	Tim, okay.
	And I was listening to your program last night.
	Yes.
	And I was extremely distraught by the information.
	Yeah, me too.
	Portrayed there.
	And my girlfriend sort of forbidden me from listening to you, but here I am again.
	Man, you're really breaking that one.
	You're not just listening.
	I mean, you're calling.
	Participating in the madness.
	Well, you know, it's the first time for me and everything, but... How did she say that?
	I mean, how did she forbid you?
	Didn't you bring up the Bill of Rights?
	Didn't you say, woman, I'm king of my house, dammit?
	If I want to listen to this, I'll listen to it.
	Get away from me, woman.
	Bring me a beer.
	It's not that.
	She just said that she didn't like me listening to it.
	I'm a bit of a skeptic myself.
	I don't want to believe everything that you portray in your program.
	Well, I don't believe it either.
	I don't believe everything.
	But I think that the press as a whole Isn't addressing the issue of like a solar flare the extent that it should be?
	Yeah.
	Shall I go over my McCartney quote again?
	Yeah, go for it.
	Tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the sun.
	I mean, it took several scientists at the Jet Propulsion Lab there to come up with that in an answer.
	Tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the sun.
	McCartney quote.
	Well, that's what we pay the scientists all their government money for.
	You've got to at least, I guess, say they've got a sense of humor.
	Or not, I don't know.
	Well, hey, I really enjoyed the program.
	All right.
	And I did meditate.
	Look, remember, next time Show a little pride.
	I mean, say, look, I'm king of this household.
	Away from me.
	All right?
	All right.
	And, uh, call me from the hospital.
	Will do.
	All right.
	First time caller on the line.
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Eric.
	This is Jean from Seattle.
	Hi, Jean.
	And, uh... Wait a minute.
	I discern you're on a cellular phone.
	Yeah, I'm sorry, but I'm one of those drive-and-work people.
	At 2.17 in the morning in the West, you're going to work?
	No, I drive a taxi.
	Oh, I see.
	Alright.
	Well, anyway, welcome.
	Anyway, I would like to say two things.
	I'm really happy that I managed to get on the air.
	And the first one is that there are quite a few people in Seattle that listen to you.
	And it would be a lot nicer if I could just prod them into continuing to come to the Artville Chat Club meetings like they should.
	And that way, we can all sit around and help each other out to talk some of this stuff out.
	It would be much better to be able to, I can't talk to my family.
	I'd say, gee, these aliens came and they created us or whatever.
	And my family just thinks that I'm crazy and I can't even talk to friends.
	I sound so stupid when I try to discuss any of these topics.
	And I sound like an idiot.
	They'll probably say something to you like, dear, you've been spending too many hours on the road.
	I know, I know.
	It's just like that.
	And they don't want to listen.
	And I think, well listen, there's this really valid point here.
	I start trying to talk something about mitochondrial DNA and they look at me like I'm just sick.
	I just think it would be nicer if a lot more of the people that listen to your show would come to the chat clubs wherever they're at and give people like me... So what you're really saying is that people who listen to my program need support groups.
	Right!
	Unfortunately, I think we do.
	There's so many amazing things out there and so many people have such closed minds.
	And it's some beautiful things going on and some scary things going on.
	And the second thing I wanted to address was Y2K.
	Okay.
	I went in my bank today and I'm just all happy because I'm getting all ready for it and I'm looking at some property and I'm considering all my storage.
	Anyway, I'm pretty much preparing myself.
	And I was in my bank going, oh yeah, and excuse me if I don't put any more money in the bank.
	And I was actually talking to the bank manager at the time, and I'd known her for a couple years because I'd been there, and she just looked at me like I was sick, and she says, oh, I can't believe people are still going.
	We were compliant.
	We were Y2K compliant back in December, and we're just testing now, and I'm saying, you know... Wait a minute.
	Wait a minute.
	Wait a minute.
	We were compliant back in December.
	Now, that implies that the end of testing Yes, she was saying, well, we were done with the Y2K readiness, whatever they were doing.
	then and we're testing now yet he was a while we were done with
	we're done with the with the way to keep reading that whatever they were doing
	and on december the state and all of the bank had to be that way
	and all the bank for our reading now and we're all in the testing page now
	I said, well, you know, I think that this is not right.
	No, it's not right.
	If she was compliant, then she wouldn't need to be doing testing, would she?
	No, yes.
	If they were sure and compliant.
	And so she said, well, I'll give you this Y2K pamphlet.
	So she gave me a pamphlet on how to prepare your business for Y2K.
	Absolutely.
	And it had nothing at all to do with this bank's preparedness.
	It's a major, major bank.
	Store of food, store of water.
	No, it's about your business.
	You might need to buy the newest version of your windows or whatever.
	That sort of thing.
	It's really downplaying it.
	But just the way she looked at me, I feel like I've come so many steps in Y2K preparedness But just one or two sentences from her and the way that she said it.
	Oh, I can't believe people are still spouting that.
	We're completely ready.
	We're just testing it out now.
	It's all done.
	That's almost as good as McCartney here.
	Oh, one big step back.
	Really?
	You're done?
	Gee, well why am I selling my business and moving into the woods?
	I think that's another reason we need more support and we need to get together with people
	who know about this stuff and I don't know anybody else who is preparing even.
	Well, there's a very active, thank you, chat group, of course, in Seattle, so I'm sure you're aware.
	I don't know, look, nothing may happen.
	You've got to include that in your range of possibilities, that nothing will happen.
	That Y2K will be, for those who said it was going to be serious, a bust.
	But that'd be a good thing.
	That'll be a good thing.
	That's my attitude about it, anyway.
	It'll be a great thing if it's all a bust.
	And if people are prepared, well, so what?
	Then they're prepared, and so if something happens, which inevitably it does, we're reading it in the news every day about people without power, people in floods, people in all kinds of trouble, they're ready!
	Or, worst case, they eat their investment or whatever.
	Maybe nothing will happen, and that would be the best of the extremes.
	Wouldn't it?
	I don't know if I'd believe that, but it would be.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	You're on the air.
	This is it.
	Hi.
	This is Jenny, and I'm calling from Rochester, Washington.
	Hi, Jenny.
	And I actually had a comment to make about reincarnation.
	Okay.
	Am I actually speaking to... Who am I speaking to?
	Well, if you were to guess, what would you think?
	Okay, I'm going to guess Art Bell.
	Ta-da!
	Okay, sorry about that.
	That lady, the brass ring, yes.
	Your voice just sounds so different on the telephone than it does on my radio.
	You know, I've really got to do something about that.
	I've got to figure out a way to make my voice sound on the phone the way it does on the radio so people will believe me.
	That's a worthy project.
	Okay, well, I think what it is is Is it cool or what?
	It's very cool, except that I pick you up on about three different stations, and each one, depending on how the weather is outside, is a little bit scratchy.
	Sometimes you come in clear as a bell.
	But other than that... Well, that's the nature of nighttime radio, but what the CC radio lets you do is hear so many more of them, so much better than you would hear them otherwise.
	Absolutely, absolutely.
	I was listening to you on a station in Reno earlier.
	It's KOH 780, KOH.
	Right, right.
	In fact, I think that's what I was just listening to.
	But the comment that I wanted to make about reincarnation I've been working with death transformation for a number of years, assisting spirits on, if you will.
	But back to the lady that called earlier about her grandchild, when my daughter, who is now 25, when she was three years old, one day she suddenly looked at me and said, gee mommy, I remember When I used to be a big blonde woman, and I liked to drink beer.
	You're kidding!
	No, and I looked at her and I said, really?
	Wait a minute, this was a three-year-old?
	A three-year-old.
	A three-year-old, right?
	So I looked at her, and I've always been a very curious person, and I said, really?
	And you like to drink beer?
	And she said, yes.
	And my husband didn't care for it very much because sometimes I would get up on the tables and dance.
	And I said, you get up on the tables and dance?
	You've got to be kidding!
	And she said, we had a pub.
	Excuse me, we had a what?
	We had a pub.
	A pub?
	She didn't call it a bar, she didn't call it a tavern.
	Yeah?
	She called it a pub.
	Oh, you must have been completely freaked out.
	Well, I just looked at her and I said, you are truly my 40 year old midget.
	Oh.
	And she looked at me and she just laughed.
	Her name wasn't Brandy, was it?
	No, it's, oh, no, Beverly.
	Beverly is her name.
	But it's with a B. It's with a B. Synchronicity, it's unbelievable.
	Yeah.
	Hey, can you stay right there?
	Absolutely, because I am done.
	Hold on, hold on, hold on.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast A.M.
	March 10, 1999.
	The city of New York.
	The city of New York.
	There's a girl in this harbor town.
	She works laying whiskey down.
	They say Brian May got your mother proud.
	She serves them whiskey and wine.
	They say to say Brian May, you're a fine girl.
	What a good wife you would be.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I could steal a satan from the sea.
	Brian May wears a braided chain.
	I'm a messenger to windblown.
	I'm a messenger to windblown.
	Watch the sunrise.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 10th, 1999.
	Maybe reincarnation is kind of like a change.
	That can't be broken.
	Anyway, top of the morning to you.
	I've got a young lady on hold, and here she is.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello again.
	Jenny again.
	Yes.
	Okay, I do believe that reincarnation is a chain.
	I don't know that I fully agree with your guest tonight.
	I don't know if I do either.
	I think he had a lot of viable things to say.
	But there were some things that he left kind of unexplained.
	Well, the one thing he did say that blew me away was the explanation of the tape loop ghost.
	Yes.
	No one's ever given me that before.
	Okay, now that I can buy.
	But there were some other things that he didn't fully cover for me.
	Number one, what about all of the people that see their deceased loved ones or friends that actually appear
	to them or talk to them.
	It's never happened to me, has it to you?
	I saw things when I was a child and I have actually seen discarnate spirits, entities,
	yes.
	That's really interesting.
	But not personally anyone that you recognize.
	Well, I take that back.
	I did see my brother.
	Oh, that's really interesting.
	Thank you.
	I saw... No, I didn't see.
	I felt the presence of my cat.
	I've loved cats all my life, and I had a cat named Yesu who died.
	In my arms, it was so sad.
	Anyway, I have felt the presence of Yesu, but You know, I have to imagine the possibility that Yesu was an artifact, is an artifact of my mind.
	That Yesu indeed lives on in the sense that he lives on in my mind, in my memory.
	And that I'm projecting that fact.
	And wanting to keep Yesu alive in that manner.
	Consciously or subconsciously, probably.
	So you can't, you know, you can't rule that out.
	Well, here I am, surprised again, or not so surprised.
	That's all for now, and as always, thanks for watching.
	A doctor, a friend of mine, writes, uh, Discovery Channel Art, uh, or one of the Time Life channels, did a special, Cocaine Mummies!
	Fascinating!
	So it's true.
	They've tested and found cocaine in the, in, in mummies.
	Now, maybe when you die, your body no longer processes the cocaine, so it remains to be tested.
	Yes, that could certainly be.
	A little nose crust or something.
	Who knows?
	I don't know how they would do that testing, but my God!
	A cocaine in mummies.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Bill, I talked to you about your website.
	Uh, I checked in.
	Okay, what about it?
	Well, like, uh, Dina's ghost photos?
	Yes.
	Well, I've got many.
	Which ones?
	Uh, I think her name is Dina?
	Oh, Dina, yes.
	Dina.
	Yes.
	Yeah, they look like a hair that was, that was in a circle or something, uh, on the, like a processing error or something.
	So, I don't see the eyes and the teeth, but you... You're looking at the wrong thing.
	The photo, I was looking at the actual photo.
	No, you're looking at the wrong, yeah, but you're looking at the wrong part of the photo.
	What you should be doing is looking up on the original 35 millimeter, look up toward the ceiling.
	Yeah, it's up in the corner.
	And then, that's right, and then in the enlargement, I don't have a real hard time seeing features that look an awful lot like eyes.
	Yeah, it looks horrible.
	I found most of the stuff on your website interesting.
	It's like some of the chupacabra things look like, you know, dog carcasses that have been dried up.
	Might be.
	Only thing about them though, their teeth aren't right.
	Well, they could be a canine.
	No, but see, they don't look right for canine teeth.
	They look too big and in a lot of cases, the specific teeth that are sticking out look closer to something in alien.
	Remember with Sigourney Weaver?
	Almost like that.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Yes, this is Kiki in Kissimmee, Florida.
	Oh, welcome.
	Where in Florida?
	Kissimmee.
	Kissimmee?
	It's right outside of Disney.
	Oh, okay.
	I know where you are then.
	Where the Mickey Mouse is.
	Yes, indeed.
	I just wanted to tell you that you have given me a lot of nightless sleeping nights.
	Well, I don't know if that's good or bad.
	It's wonderful.
	You are so informative, and I can't thank you enough for all of that.
	Do you remember when I was talking a little while ago to somebody, and I said, be a man.
	Tell her to leave the room.
	You're going to listen to our program.
	Remember that?
	I got a fax here.
	It says, shame on you, Artie, because you're stealing husbands from their wives at night.
	Poor, lonely wives laying all alone in tears because you broadcast.
	She goes on, well it's okay, the wives can still be abducted by aliens and get their business done that way.
	Not this wife boy, I want to stay here.
	I'll tell you what, I was in show business all my life and I traveled all my life.
	My mother and father and I together.
	And I'll make this quick.
	One night I was on my own after my father passed away and my mother.
	And I was doing an act by myself and I traveled all night driving like a son of a gun to get to the next date.
	And I got in this hotel room and lie in bed and the next door they were having a party and I was having such a time sleeping.
	So I thought, oh gosh, I've got to get to sleep.
	I've got to get to sleep.
	Finally I dozed off and then this bright light came in my face.
	Bright, bright light.
	And I got up and looked and it was Christ standing there with my father standing behind him, waving at me to come with him.
	And I sat up in bed and I thought, oh my God, this can't be true.
	And so I got out of bed, washed my face real good, got back in bed and looked, and he was still there.
	Sounds like Meet Joe Black to me.
	I'll tell you, it was scary.
	But I know one thing, that ever since that time, I have never had a problem going to sleep.
	Ever since, except for Art Bell, of course.
	Well, that's quite a story.
	Thank you.
	Those for the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello, Art.
	This is Barry from Windsor, California, listening to KSRO over here.
	Yes, sir.
	How are you doing tonight?
	I'm fine.
	Pleasure with Richard Hovind.
	I had the pleasure of talking to him on your show one night, and I sure hope he gets better.
	Yes, sir.
	Something about Egypt and Atlantis.
	You know, all the mummies, or most of them, have tested positive for cocaine and tobacco?
	You lie.
	No, it's a fact.
	Now, tobacco I could understand.
	No, no, no, wait a minute.
	How do you possibly test a mummy for cocaine?
	They drug tested the mummy.
	No, I know, but I mean, even in a living human body, there would not be cocaine detectable after about, I'm told, about 30 days.
	The ladies that come up with the test evidence, I wish I could remember their names.
	How in the name of Osiris would you get a positive test after thousands of years?
	Well, I'm not a chemist.
	I couldn't tell you that.
	But it was... I can't remember which source I heard it from.
	Maybe that's why they had to tape up their nose like that.
	Could be.
	But the fact that they had two things, tobacco and cocaine, which are native to the American continent, correct?
	And it was tested, I guess, enough mummies were tested to where it was over a large span of time.
	That would be proof of trade with somebody who had access to Americas.
	Kind of like proof of Atlantis, almost.
	Or at least Colombia.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Doing some pretty good business.
	You don't know how far back that goes.
	Apparently not, thank you.
	Mummies testing positive for cocaine, huh?
	Well, like I say, maybe that's why they tape the nose that way.
	Well, folks, guess what?
	Another machine that I own is dying.
	It's life support system beginning to flicker.
	My television is dying.
	It hasn't died yet, quite.
	But I know the signs.
	You begin to get these red scan lines, you know, these little red scan lines across the screen.
	And People who are have a pinkish tint to their skin suddenly get kind of greenish then it goes back to pinkish.
	The tube is dying.
	Sad.
	This one has lasted about seven years so I am going to splurge.
	I don't splurge very often but I'm going to splurge and I'm going to buy a brand new Sony.
	I'm gonna get The new Sony HDTV.
	It's long, you know, like letterbox.
	I'm such a movie fan, I really am such a movie fan, that I ordered the Sony HDTV yesterday.
	As I looked at my TV in its death throes, its twitching death throes, I ordered... I'm gonna have to wait a couple of months for this thing, you can't even get them right now.
	So I'm praying my TV will not go belly up completely for a couple of months.
	I've been saying to myself, I've got to have... I've got to have HDTV.
	I've just got to have it.
	Even though it's not exactly out there yet.
	I can't hold back any longer.
	So I'm dying to see it.
	It's the only one they have, the Sony, and it's a long TV, you know, long.
	Not even really broadcasting much HDTV yet, but... I couldn't stop myself.
	No point in getting an old one now.
	A new old one, if you will.
	International Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	I'm just phoning to tell you how they tested those mummies.
	It was the hair.
	The hair?
	They tested the hair.
	The hair can... Oh, that's right.
	The hair.
	The hair.
	Of course the hair.
	Hair holds...
	Uh, chemicals and whatever long past, uh, your death, just like fingernails and toenails, too.
	Well, I wonder if that, uh, I wonder if they were able to determine that cocaine was in use at the time of death, or near, very near the time of death.
	Well, I watched a special, and I think it was also National Geographic, too, and, uh, apparently this was, uh, the, uh, it wasn't smoked or snorted, it was chewed and ingested.
	Ah.
	That was how it stayed in the system.
	Then ceremonial, perhaps.
	Perhaps.
	That would make sense.
	Yeah.
	So, just for your information, by the way, Ark, I prayed for Richard last night, and I sure hope that he gets better.
	He's one of my heroes.
	The man has so much courage and so much integrity.
	I sure hope that he pulls through this, because God knows who else will carry on his work.
	You're right about that.
	Courage.
	And integrity.
	Richard has a very great deal of both.
	He's kind of childlike.
	Richard will never grow up.
	I probably won't either.
	What does it mean to grow up anyway?
	You know, get serious and forget about your dreams and forget about the quest and the search?
	And the thrill of the search?
	If it means giving up all that, then who wants to grow up anyway?
	But there are a lot of people who just, you know, sort of don't all the way grow up, and that's Richard.
	But ethical, and moral, and very honest, all of those traits are Richard.
	To the point where he sacrifices himself in the Miami Circle business is a really good example of that.
	He worked himself to death on that thing.
	And talk about vindication.
	The Miami Circle has just been carbon dated to be a minimum of 2,000 years old, and they think older.
	And as I pointed out to you yesterday, now the state legislature in Florida has voted 15 million dollars.
	So the circle is indeed safe.
	But do you know how close that was?
	It was that close!
	It was that close and we would never have known unless we had purchased at great expense time to do the testing we would never have known and we would have put the bulldozers to something that at a bare minimum was here when Christ walked on the earth in our country not in Israel Or Egypt, where you might expect to see things of this age, but our country, where you don't.
	That close we were.
	That close we never would have known.
	Well, for the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Don calling from Chandler, Arizona.
	Yes, sir.
	Yes, I have a suggestion for some bumper music for you.
	Okay.
	Sticks, Grand Illusion.
	That'll be good.
	Okay, and another thing I wanted to say, I'm 39.
	And I wanted to say, God help my generation and the ones after me.
	I know, but every generation says that.
	Yeah, I know.
	It's like, you say you're 39.
	I'm starting to sound like my dad, but it's true this time.
	You're becoming your dad.
	But it's true this time.
	Well, when you listen to today's non-music noise.
	Oh, yeah.
	What do you say to yourself?
	You say, oh my God, what a bunch of crap.
	Who could listen to this?
	There's no melody.
	Most of it is.
	There's no song.
	There's nothing.
	It's just a thumping, stupid beat that doesn't make any sense at all, right?
	And you can't even hear the lyrics.
	Yeah, but you know what?
	My dad, you say that about Paul Anka.
	Yeah, mine did too.
	OK, take care of yourself, Art, and God bless.
	All right, see you later.
	All the early Paul Anka and Elvis Presley and all that stuff.
	So my dad said, my God, you call that music?
	You know, so we are our father's Oldsmobile, mostly.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Dan calling from Tucson.
	Yes, sir.
	And I just had a quick observation and then a quick question.
	All right, observe.
	Well, you know, now we've got this information about the Egyptians and the cocaine.
	I guess that solves how the pyramids were built.
	You know, if you have a thousand people, how could the cocaine... You'd get right on that rock.
	But I sent you an email, but I didn't know about the father, Malachi Martin.
	You said he had a heart attack or was having a problem?
	He had a stroke, sir.
	And he lost some use of his right side.
	He's recovering.
	They are.
	But the last I've heard, he's continuing to recover.
	His website is down.
	Don't let that worry you.
	He continues to recover.
	And they're watching him like a hawk.
	They won't let anybody near him.
	And they sure as hell won't let anybody interview him.
	And I understand that.
	So he's recovering.
	And with the help of God, we'll have him on the air again.
	OK.
	Because I was wanting to ask, when I was in the Air Force, I was stationed over in England.
	And I believe it was in 1990, October 31st, Halloween night.
	Yes.
	And they interviewed this Catholic priest who said he was a vampire hunter.
	And for like two hours, they talked with this guy.
	Yeah, I would like to talk to that fellow.
	I think I've got something in a pile of paperwork on him.
	But it only vaguely comes to mind.
	So I think I've got something.
	I would really like to interview that fellow myself.
	The Catholic Church is sort of in denial about what he's saying.
	Right.
	They've actually come back and said that, but he claims to be a vampire hunter.
	That's right.
	Yeah, but I didn't know if Father Malachi knew of him or what the situation was, but I just thought I'd pass that along.
	Also, I was going to ask for a potential guest tonight.
	How about Stan Lee?
	Now, I don't know Stan Lee, so you'll have to send me something on him.
	Well, he's the producer of Marvel Comics, created like Spider-Man, and just about all the comic book characters, you know?
	Oh, that'll be fun.
	Alright.
	Alright, thank you very much.
	The only thing I wonder is, a vampire hunter.
	Let's think about that a little bit.
	A vampire hunter.
	If a priest found what he considered to be a vampire, and did the traditional stake through the heart business, And the cops came, and the priest is there, and he's telling them why he drove a stake through this guy's heart.
	In this modern day and age, there would be a problem, wouldn't there?
	There'd be a trial.
	Anyway, he sounds like he'd be an interesting interview.
	That's it for tonight.
	Clock says we gotta go.
	Clock never lies.
	People tell lies, not clocks.
	That's it.
	From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.

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