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March 10, 1999 - Art Bell

02:39:40

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Division of Consciousness - Peter Novak

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01:17:20

peter novak

31:52

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from March 10th, 1999.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning, wherever you may be across this great land of powers commercially from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands southwest, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, South and South America, north all the way to the Pole and worldwide on the internet.
		This is Ghost to Ghost AM and I Ghost Beyond in worldwide broadcast.com and of course in Pole at the moment, as we continue our experiment in streaming videos, streaming video, is it streaming video?
		Listen, you can go up to my website and you can get the G2 software in charge.
		Cost you an American set either.
		And then come back and click on streaming video, and here I will be dancing about doing my show, and you can both see and hear what goes on.
		Richard C. Hogan, good news to report.
		At least tentative good news.
		Richard did make it through surgery.
		Richard Richard is going to But he did make it through surgery, I repeat.
		And I haven't had a lot of communication from the people in Miami.
		My guess is, I've had a little bit.
		My guess is that they're all pretty whipped.
		And once he got through surgery and was no doubt totally conked out, they all took the opportunity to go get a little bit of sleep.
		But I did get word that he made it through the surgery, so thank you all.
		I guess we can at least tentatively, cautiously conclude, grand experiment number seven worked.
		Or at least it's not an obvious failure.
		Richard lives.
		So I want to thank all of you from the bottom of my heart who participated in the effort.
		You never know.
		I guess you can call these things as you will, but we have now done seven experiments, and all seven have come up winners.
unidentified		Now, I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess you could calculate the odds of that one with regard to rain or ET showing themselves or people recovering from insurmountable difficulties, certainly the case with Daniel, and a good helping hand with Richard.
		So I don't know.
		You know, what do you conclude about many minds concentrating in a single effort?
		I have not yet concluded anything except that I'm leaning heavily toward believing that it actually works.
		Listen next hour.
		You're in for a treat.
		Peter Novak will be here.
		And he claims to have solved the oldest mystery of them all, the secret of death itself.
		And he has written a book called The Division of Consciousness.
		The Division of Consciousness.
		And he will explain, I guess, the nature of what he believes consciousness to be, and in its understanding, unriddles the mystery of death.
		We'll see.
unidentified		Next hour, Peter Novak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right now, a little bit of an update.
		First, NASA has got to go up and fix the Hubble.
		There's more Hubble trouble.
		Now, I hadn't heard that, but let me read the story to you as is and see what you think of it.
		NASA will launch an emergency repair mission this fall to the Hubble Space Telescope, which is in danger of shutting down.
		NASA decided Wednesday to move up the Hubble visit to October from June of 2000.
		Although the $2 billion telescope would be safe in orbit, NASA does not want to risk losing any valuable science time.
unidentified		Hmm.
		Ha ha ha ha.
		Hmm...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's wrong with Hubble?
		I hadn't heard Hubble was in trouble, but apparently it is again.
		You don't suppose it could be related to Y2K to you?
		Now, again, although they say the $2 billion telescope would be safe in orbit, NASA doesn't want to lose any valuable science time.
		See, that would lead a slightly suspicious person to believe that it might be a software thing.
unidentified		Hmm.
unidentified		Maybe an embedded chip up there circling the Earth?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who knows?
		Secretary of State Madeleine Albright urges Congress to delay votes on Kosovo until peace talks are completed, suggesting the warring sides would interpret a lack of U.S. resolve as, quote, a green light to resume fighting, but the House Speaker has rejected her appeal and scheduled a debate for tomorrow on a resolution on the possible deployment of U.S. troops.
		Now, I wonder why they would do that.
		Seems to me not to be a brilliant idea to deploy U.S. troops until they're sure they've got some kind of agreement.
		Otherwise, we're sending our guys into the middle of a hot zone.
unidentified		Maybe that's what they're going to do.
unidentified		Here's what I call a head shaker.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A man down in Louisiana walked into a church in the middle of a church service and opened fire as he walked down the aisle, killing two people, wounding four others.
		Minister said the gunman's wife and baby were killed.
		He also reportedly shot and killed his mother-in-law before going to church.
		Incident occurred at New St. John Fellowship Baptist Church in Gonzales, 20 miles east of Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
		Parish deputies there shaking their head.
		They have no idea why this occurred.
		Great.
		Into church, right down the aisle with a gun blazing away.
		This is really, really interesting what I've got here.
		It is from Gene.
		And Gene sent me emails saying roughly the following.
		Art, I sent a message to SOHO, you know, the people with the satellite that watches the sun, asking them about the probability of a super flare, flashback to last night, super flare hitting Earth and what it would do if it did.
		And I got an amazingly uncommunicative response, which I have quoted below.
		So here's what she wrote to the people at Soho.
		CNN reported recently that other star-like stars have been seen expelling super flares.
		How likely is it that the sun might send a super flare our way, and what exactly would be the consequences?
		Now this is sent to Soho, right?
		And so you can see the trail of email once Gene's letter got to Soho.
		It reached first a man named Steele.
		That's S-T-E-E-L-E Steele, who said, Steele, can you take this one?
		Thanks.
		And you can see that it was kicked, thanks, Jean, and Jean kicked it over to somebody else.
		And finally, it's hard to discern who sent this.
		The answer that came back to my emailer was the technical answer she got back from the Soho people was on the possibility of a major flare.
		Are you ready?
unidentified		Quote.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To quote Paul McCartney, tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the sun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And hold on.
unidentified		Ha ha ha ha ha.
unidentified		Ha ha ha ha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
		Gene writes, as you can see, my message got bumped from scientist to scientist, who would normally answer questions, and finally to their PI guy, Soho Media Specialist.
		The PR guy then proceeded to just throw me a cryptic McCartney quote, no mention of the chances or the possible outcome, as I had asked.
		This to me expresses an attempt to hide something.
		Can the PR guy really answer my question about supernova flares better than the scientist?
		Yeah, all right.
		So again, a serious inquiry made of the people at Soho kicked past several of the scientists there.
		Finally, with an answer, tomorrow may rain, so follow the sun.
		All right.
		I mentioned this the other morning, but I didn't give it much play because I just didn't have time the other morning.
		On Tuesday, last week, this is in the Night Ritter newspapers, a dangerous asteroid whizzed by Earth in a cosmic close call.
		Similar near misses are expected March 18th, March 26th, and April 1st.
		Astronomers are discovering killer asteroids at a record pace.
		Now, they've already added 55, by the way, this year.
		More than any other six years combined.
		Anyway, it goes back to what I've always said about this.
		The really close calls that we get are never seen until after the fact.
		In other words, they never run a story saying Earth is about to have a close call.
		Tomorrow or the next day, something is going to come whizzing by and it's going to be really close, folks, but no cigar.
		Or can't you do that cigar thing anymore?
		We never get a notification ahead of time, always, well, we just, guess what, we just had a close call.
		And here's an interesting story from Philadelphia, the Inquirer there, the Philadelphia Inquirer, a very well-respected paper.
		Deformed calves, discolored crops, purple pigs dying by the hundreds, then decomposing quickly.
		Sounds like the X-Files, doesn't it?
		It isn't some Old Testament pestilence.
		It's here and now, and a mystery that has driven one farmer in western Montgomery County out of business and has others in the area scared for theirs and for their health.
		Thus far, the long series of reported problems first noted in the early 1990s has absolutely confounded environmental and agricultural officials.
		EPA did its most recent round of soil and water testing on the farms in January.
		More tests to come.
		But, quote, the data we got back thus far does not indicate any kind of environmental or Human health emergency out here.
		We're looking at what needs to be done from here on out.
		And apparently, it's not exactly isolated either.
		Throughout the mid-Atlantic region, according to Lynn Campbell, an EPA spokesperson, farm animals are dying, and we don't know why.
		We're not going to make any kind of connection we can and try to figure out what's going on here.
		Everybody is very tight-lipped on the story, but I trust the Philadelphia Inquirer is following the story, and we'll get some kind of update on it.
		pretty weird stuff huh The priest was preparing a man for his long day's journey into night.
		Must be a hard job for priests, you know, going to people who are dying.
		You ever think about that?
		That's what Daniel does, too.
		Whispering firmly, our priest said, denounce the devil, son.
		Let him know how little you think of his evil.
		The dying man was silent.
		The priest repeated his order.
		The dying man still said nothing.
		The priest then asked, Why do you refuse to denounce the devil and his evil?
		A moment goes by and the dying man replies, Well, until I know exactly where I'm heading, I don't think I ought to aggravate anybody.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, one more here that I can do tonight now that I feel a little better, considering Richard made it through.
		Now, don't stop.
		He continues to need great assistance in the next 48 hours.
		You know, they're going to be watching Richard very carefully.
		And they are, of course, tentative hours after you have come out of surgery.
		So for those of you who have been thinking good thoughts, don't stop, please.
		But I thought you should hear this.
		A few months ago, there was an opening in the CIA for an assassin.
		The highly classified positions are rather hard to fill, as you might imagine, and there's a lot of testing and background checking involved before you can even be considered for anything like that.
		After sending many, many applicants through the background checks and the training, testing, they finally narrowed the possible choices down to two men and one woman, but only one position was available.
		So two were to be disappointed?
		Anyway, the day came for the final test to see which of those final qualifying persons would get the extremely secretive job.
		The CIA man administering the test took one of the men aside and handed him a gun.
		He said, quote, we must know that you will follow your instructions no matter the circumstances, end quote, he explained, pointing to a door and said, quote, inside that room, you'll find your wife sitting in a chair.
		Take this gun and kill her.
		The man got a shot.
		Look on his face, as you could imagine, said, you can't be serious.
		I could never, never shoot my own wife.
		Well, said the CIA fellow, you're not the person for this job.
		And he was disqualified and sent home.
		The CIA man took the second fellow aside, handed him the gun, and told him precisely the same thing.
		The man looked a bit shocked, but took the gun and went in the room.
		Everything was quiet for about five minutes.
		Then the door opened.
		The man came out with tears in his eyes.
		I tried to shoot her, he said, but just couldn't pull the trigger.
		I couldn't shoot my own wife.
		I guess I'm not the right guy for this job.
		No, said the CIA man, you just don't have what it takes.
unidentified		Take your wife and go home, son.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now we finally get down to the woman.
		He hands her the gun, tells her the same thing, except, of course, it's her husband sitting in the chair in the room.
		The woman, candidate three, takes the gun and opens the door.
		Before the doors have even closed, comes the sound of gunfire.
		Tremendous gunfire.
		The door closed, and the gunfire continues.
		Shot after shot after shot.
		13 shots fired in total.
unidentified		Then all hell broke loose in the room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The CIA man heard screaming, crashing, banging on the walls, things hitting the floor.
		This went on for several minutes, and then everything went quiet.
		The door opens then slowly, and there stands the woman, final candidate.
		She wipes the sweat off her brow and says, You guys didn't tell me the gun was loaded with blanks.
		I had to beat him to death with a chair.
unidentified		Oh, no!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think we'll break here and we'll be back with open minds through the top of the hour.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		Stay right there.
unidentified		You'll just need Mark Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 10, 1999.
		The book is gone, we gotta get right back to where we started from.
		Do you remember that day, when you first came out of bed?
		I said no one could take your praise.
		And if you get hurt, if you get hurt, by the little things I say, I can put that smile back on your face.
		When it's alright and it's alright.
		The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End Thank
		you.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 10th, 1999.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, for those of you who might not have heard or tuned in late, Richard Hoagland has made it through surgery alive and needs to be watched carefully by the people at the hospital, the doctors, and you.
		So let us not let up in our well-wishes mentally for Richard in grand experiment number seven.
		But that's the good news, folks.
		He's through the surgery and still with us.
		They'll be watching him very carefully, as they always do in these cases over the next 48 hours or so.
		Maybe before you know it, we'll have Richard here telling us all about it.
		And just one more little item before we go to the phones in open line.
		Spring Hill, Tennessee, ever get so mad at your car that you just could shoot it?
		Gee, I would never consider such things.
		Actually, I've considered shooting computers.
		Anyway, a guy in Spring Hill, Tennessee did, please say Boyd Kelly's car just died on him Saturday night.
		So he blasted it right there in the middle of the highway, pulled out an AK-47 assault rifle, and emptied three 30-round clips into the poor 88 Oldsmobile, now departed.
		A sheriff's dispatcher says that several people called to report the bizarre scene of this man firing round after round into the tortured body of this Oldsmobile.
		Kelly, of course, is now charged with a weapons violation, but the olds...
		Ah, the olds is...
		Wherever olds go.
unidentified		Screams
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, a question about the possibility of a flare, a Steel Hill Soho media specialist, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, replied to my emailer.
		To quote Paul McCartney, tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the sun.
		I'm not going to get over that one for a while.
		One more little car story, and then off we go.
		Knoxville, Tennessee.
		Where was that other story from?
		It was from Spring Hill, Tennessee.
		Hey, what's going on in Tennessee anyway, with you people?
		Listen to this.
		Knoxville, Tennessee.
		Honk if you say I do.
		There's a man in Tennessee.
		We just, of course, read about one who shot his car three clips in an AK-47 into the Oldsmobile.
		Anyway, there's another man in Tennessee who wants to marry his car.
		We apparently feel about our cars the way we do about our women, huh?
		This guy actually wants to marry his car.
		Buster Mitchell says that he has been brokenhearted and hung out to dry, so he figured he might as well marry his only other true love.
		His 1996 Mustang GT.
		He calls it doing the good old boy thing.
		He's going to have to settle for a driver's license because officials in Knoxville say only men and women could get marriage licenses.
		A marriage license.
		It was sometime after he listed his fiancé's birthplace as Detroit, her father as Henry Ford, and her blood type as 10W40 that his plans began to sputter.
		Mitchell, though, is not giving up.
		He plans to try at a couple of wedding chapels in the great Smoky Mountains.
		Her birthday.
		Oh, boy.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we just missed him.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Hello there, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's Fritz.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Fritz.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		At least some good news about Richard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		We're all concerned.
		Now, we all know he's a man on the go constantly.
		And the question also arises, when did he have his last medical checkup?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Huh, that I can't answer, Fritz.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Of course not.
		Does he have yearly checkups?
		Guys like this usually on the go never have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's a serious type A person, as you well know.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		So age.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		AA plus even.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Age and stress finally caught up with him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		And so I'm sure he will from now on take his life a little different, a different direction.
		Of course, we all miss him, and I hope he's going to get well soon.
		But that was a warning signal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think stress absolutely is a big part of it.
		It's stressful.
		What Richard does, no doubt about it, is stressful.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		We all know the work he has accomplished.
		And even if he's in the career area, there's nobody out there that can match his ability.
		Regardless, the people that broke fun at him.
		But I mean, we need guys like him because what today is science fiction is reality tomorrow.
		And he has broken grounds in many areas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Fritz, most recently, of course, if it had not been for Richard, there would now be concrete where something in excess of 2,000 years of age is now being preserved.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		I hope that will sink in on America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hope it will, too.
		Thanks, Fritz.
		Take care.
		See you later.
		East of the Rockies, you are upon the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, how are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, better than yesterday, which is always a good sign.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		All right, yeah, just took care of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
unidentified		How are you tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pretty well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your name?
unidentified		My name is True.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		True?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I'm from New York.
		True in New York.
		I actually had three questions of interest that I was going to see if you could just throw me quick answers to.
		You could even pick one that you just find most interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, give them to me one at a time.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Okay.
		I was going to ask you, what do you think of the connections of the holy books of really all philosophy of religion and them maybe being like a primitive form of alien contact to humans?
		What do I think of the various holy books as far what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For example, the Quran and the Bible and so forth.
		I think that all are as likely to carry you to an ultimate path on the other side as another.
		In other words, I don't necessarily favor one above the other.
		I think they all may take you to the same good place if that's where you're going to go.
unidentified		Of course.
		I mean, I was actually speaking more in terms of an actual alien to human transfer of knowledge almost.
		Because I've heard from people that I've talked with, they have perspectives on it.
		Like, they look at it as maybe it was a way for a higher species of thinking, of thought, you know, to leave messages for us how to live, but yet it couldn't be handed to them, you know, handed to us just blatantly open.
		It was like knowledge to be gained.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I tend to think of a single source, sir, interpreted here as multiple sources, but the message is the same.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I think, you know.
unidentified		Oh, all right.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Second question?
unidentified		The 33rd degree Masons and their connection with satanic worship?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have no comment on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Third question?
unidentified		Oh, okay.
unidentified		George Bush, what do you think of George Bush and the other, I don't know if you've heard about the committee he got together that wants to go to Egypt for 2000 and also the connections that Egypt has with the book of Revelation?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm afraid that's like your second question, sir.
		I appreciate your call, though.
		Thank you very much.
		See answer to second question.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Thank you, Art, for taking my call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		This is Noreen from nearby Buffalo, New York.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		And I listened to you faithfully on WBEN 9.30 on your A.M. dial.
unidentified		And Bert, a friend of mine, is the one who recommended you to me a year and a half ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you thank her now or a curse her?
unidentified		Pardon me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said, do you thank her now or a curse her?
unidentified		I thank her because if I hadn't met her, I wouldn't have been listening to the program that you have.
		And thank you for having this program.
		You're very well.
		Now, I need to tell you something so that hopefully you'll ask a question of Ed Dames when he comes on this Friday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay, shortly after 2 o'clock this afternoon, I was waiting for the bank to set the checkout line in the car.
		I noticed the cloud in the sky was too exact to, I mean, clouds are vaguely defined shapes, but this was too well-defined to be a cloud.
		And so I kept saying all afternoon to my partner, there's something wrong about this whole thing.
		I had strange vibes all afternoon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think it was a contrail?
unidentified		Oh, you're reading my mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
		Listen, I have already, I should have told Keith, too.
		Keith, I've booked William Thomas for next Wednesday night, Thursday morning.
		Wednesday night, William Thomas is coming back.
		This contrail story is so hot, it's unbelievable.
		I mean, it's just absolutely on fire.
unidentified		I've seen the X in the sky.
		I was wondering, you know, when I first listened to the first Contrail program, it didn't ring a bell with me until the part about the Webby stuff.
		And I was in the middle of my yard a couple of times.
		I thought there's no spider that could possibly weave a web this big.
		And then when I heard that you read a fax from Buffalo, New York, you know, and the rest is history, and today is like history.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
unidentified		You know, even better, but now I'm getting more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me tell you something.
		Even Linda Moulton Howe is beginning to take notice.
		She called me yesterday about the Contrail story, and I'm putting her in touch with William Thomas.
		But people are beginning to jump up to this one.
		So we'll see, and we're going to be following up.
		I will ask Ed Dames.
		In fact, Ed, if you're out there, if you can do any quick work.
		It's a toll order.
		Ed, if you're listening.
		I would really like to know if there is anything that you would have to say about this whole contrail business.
		I'd love to know that, Ed.
		Now, this is one of those stories that has taken on a life of its own.
		Also, just about everybody I know right now has the flu or a cold.
		And there are these suspicious phone numbers they're giving out.
		Programs that will give you free treatment in return for answering survey questions about your flu-like conditions.
		Weird, weird, weird stuff.
		On the international line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yes.
		My name's Dean.
		I'm from Toronto.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dean?
		Toronto.
		Boy, do we have an echo?
		Hold on, Dean.
		Let me correct that.
		I think that should do it.
		Hi, Dean.
unidentified		Hi.
		I'm from Toronto, and two things I want to mention.
		Did you get my package with the photos of the skull on the grave?
		On the bell grave?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On what grave?
unidentified		I took photos of a painted skull I had and put it on a bell grave and sent it to you.
		I thought that might interest you.
		I guess you didn't get the package.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On a bell grave?
unidentified		Yeah, I found it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My name is Bell grave.
unidentified		It's a grave marker with bell on it.
unidentified		Anyway, it's just an idea I had that sent off to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess you didn't get it.
unidentified		Something to cheer me up, I guess.
		About two weeks ago, I saw what I tried to identify.
		I called up Hydro and the natural gas company here, but I saw what looked like a rocket taking off, and it lit up all the sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Toronto?
		Do they launch rockets from Toronto?
		Do they launch rockets from Toronto?
unidentified		Pardon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said, do they launch rockets from Toronto?
unidentified		No, they don't.
		They don't.
		To me, it looked like a beam, a green beam, and it was off on the horizon.
		And I phoned up all first authorities to find out what they could identify it as, and they can't figure out anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I appreciate the report.
		Maybe we'll get some others.
		I'm not sure how you would confuse a green beam with a launch.
		Launches are really specific.
		How do you identify a launch?
		Well, for example, when they occur at Vandenberg, you will see a quickly rising rocket with a tail, a plume behind it.
		And then, if done around sunrise or a sunset, you will see this, or even after, this really cool, twisty kind of curly cue thing that might give you pause for a moment until you realize it is a launch.
		They leave pretty typical trademarks as they ascend.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
		Good evening, Eric.
unidentified		This is Rick from Issaquah, Washington, listening to you on KOMO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Rick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome.
unidentified		The reason why I called is a couple reasons.
		I first started listening to your show about six, seven years ago.
		And one of the primary reasons was because of Richard Hogan, and he was talking about the crystalline structures on the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the moon, yes.
unidentified		Very, very fascinating show.
		Just wanted to give my best to him.
		And a couple questions.
		Wondering if about two years ago, on April 1st, I believe it was, there was a gentleman that was flying in a small Cessna airplane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, that was April 2nd.
unidentified		April 2nd.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody says it was an April Fool's joke.
		Well, I have no idea.
		The answer is, I have absolutely no idea what happened to him.
		Now, what we heard clearly indicated that he was shot down over Area 51, or at least that's certainly what I drew from it.
		And there's unfortunately, there's nobody you can call about something like that.
		There's no Area 51 phone number because they don't even admit it exists.
		And if you call Nellis, they don't admit it exists.
		So calling an official to ask about a place that doesn't exist and a plane going down in it is doesn't get you anywhere.
unidentified		He didn't have a girlfriend or something that was going to call you and get in touch with you or something?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She did get in touch with me.
		She never got back in touch with me.
		Oh, I see.
		So I have no way to follow up.
unidentified		Wow.
unidentified		One of the things that Richard Hogan was in Seattle about four or five months ago, and he brought that STS-80 tape.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		And the amazing thing about that tape was the pieces of debris or the UFOs, whatever they were, that were station-keeping with the space shuttle.
unidentified		And that was, they didn't kind of show that on that television program that was on a couple weeks ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The STS-80 video is going to send anybody scratching their head, walking away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's no way you can look at what was on that video and not know that you saw a weapons test of some kind or a vehicle leaving Earth at a real clip.
unidentified		And then the objects, one thing that I noticed was that they would, as Richard Hofman would call it, station keep, they'd move into your frame of vision and then stop and fly with the space shuttle, same speed, same distance.
unidentified		And only things that can do that are intelligently operated aircraft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, if you really want to thrill, try and get hold of the entire STS-80 video.
		And what you've really got to do to put the whole thing in perspective is watch the entire thing.
		It goes on all about 20 minutes or so.
		And from that, you get a feel of what NASA is doing intentionally and what they're not doing when they're just sort of letting the cameras capture whatever might be out there or, you know, pulled back so you've got a wide-angle view.
		And then the obviously specifically zooming in in expectation of something to occur in a very small area.
		And then, of course, it occurs.
		So whatever was going to happen, they were aware it was going to happen.
		It's really interesting.
		International Line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, where are you?
unidentified		I'm calling from Winnipeg, Canada here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Winnipeg, yes, sir.
unidentified		You betcha.
		Here's what happened.
		Earlier today, driving home from work, just before dusk, and it's a cloudy, hazy day with a high ceiling, and out of the corner of my eye, out of the window of my vehicle, I see a flash.
		And as I look up, I see what I can only best describe as a white ball, for lack of a better term to compare it to something.
		It looks like a brilliant light bulb with green color in it flying at an incredible clip.
		I've never seen anything fly as fast as this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that interesting?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you hear the call from Toronto?
unidentified		I did, and he was talking about some sort of curve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right, that's right.
		And what you are now talking about sounds at least somewhat similar.
		In other words, the way two people might perceive a single event.
unidentified		Right.
		Now, you know, trying to dismiss any other options here, I don't know what to describe it as other than that as I did, but trying to figure out what I saw today.
		It obviously was not an airplane.
		It was a big ball Of fire, but what I'm wondering is, is it possible that a meteor could enter our atmosphere?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course it's possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How far is Winnipeg from Toronto?
unidentified		Oh, geez, mileage-wise, I don't know, but it's at least a thousand miles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A thousand miles.
		Now, that alone says something.
		Of course, it could have been a meteor, and that's what the scientists always say it is, a meteor.
		But on the other hand, it might not be either.
		They just always call it that.
		Because it's easy on the ear, right?
unidentified		There's a point on a western bay And it serves a hundred ships a day Lonely sailors pass the time away Talk about them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is for yesterday's branding.
unidentified		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Post to Post AM from March 10, 1999.
		We'll see you next time.
		Brandeis wears a braided chain made of fine as silver from the north of Spain.
		A locket that bears the name of a man with brand-day love.
		Be inside the sand, the smell of the touch, the something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of the touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak leaves deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
		To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All these things in our memories all.
unidentified		And the use of the soul take this place on this trip just for me.
		Why take a free ride?
		Check our face of the sea.
		It's for free.
		I've been sharing for years.
		Worked so hard just to rip my fears.
		I should rip my life and call my life.
		by now Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired March 10th, 1999.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The good news?
		Richard Hoagland is through surgery and still with us.
		The next 48 hours bear careful watching, of course.
		But the surgery is over, and Richard is still here.
		Thank you.
		I have nothing more to say, but thank you.
		And don't let up.
		The next 48 hours, of course, are always fairly critical.
		A simple question, just facts to me, which the title of it is, simple question.
		Are you or are you not a Freemason?
unidentified		Yes or no will do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay?
		Yes or no?
		That's what you get.
		Now look, there's no point in denying that I'm a Freemason because nobody believes it, A, and B, it would remove what little light Bill Cooper has.
		So the answer is yes or no.
		We're going to talk about consciousness here in a moment.
		Again, just one more time, because this blew me away probably more than anything else that happened during the day other than the good news about Richard.
		For those of you joining at this hour, this lady, this very nice lady, Jean, after hearing our show about solar flares yesterday and noting that CNN had a report, sent a facts off to the SOHO people, you know, the people at SOHO, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, and she sent them an email and she simply said, CNN reported yesterday that other stars have been seen expelling super flares.
		How likely is it the sun, she says, will send a super flare our way and what would the consequences be?
		Now you would think of that as a fairly legit, honest science question, right?
		Well, the people at Soho took it and you can look at the trail of email here going from one scientist to another with comments like, I wouldn't do a good job with this one.
		Maybe Terry or Barbara.
		And each one of them doesn't comment until finally at the end, it gets to a Soho media specialist.
		And the only answer our lady gets back to her question is, to quote Paul McCartney, tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the sun.
		That's what our lady got, and he was a little blown away by it.
		Tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the sun.
unidentified		Ha ha ha ha.
		Ha ha ha.
		Ha ha ha.
		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		you Peter Novak may have solved the oldest mystery of all, the secret of death itself.
		Peter had never had a personal afterlife experience.
		Never has.
		Had no memories of any past life incarnation, no encounters with ghosts, apparitions, angelic beings, or demonic spirits, not even a single near-death experience.
		Nor does he claim to see, hear, or otherwise communicate with the dead.
		People who do have such experiences, Novak is quick to point out, tend to be powerfully prejudiced in favor of the specific form of their own afterlife experience, often at the expense of discounting contradictory reports of quite different experiences.
		Now that in itself would be a show.
		After studying psychology at Purdue University, Novak spent six years as a psychiatric counselor in a small Midwestern hospital, all the while becoming increasingly impressed with how fundamentally relevant the division of consciousness seemed to be to human culture.
		How profoundly this division seemed to impact, even mold, human experience by the end of six years.
		He was convinced that no other challenge the human race faces can equal the interior challenge of the disassociation and alienation between conscious and unconscious that exists in the human psyche.
		All other problems, he suspects, were but symptoms of the first and greatest problem.
		Devastated by the tragic death of his wife, Novak walked away from his clinical duties, setting himself on an ambitious but seemingly rather futile quest to decisively determine and understand the true nature of death.
		Yes, I could understand that.
		Despite the world's many different and seemingly contradictory reports about death and the afterlife, Novak suspected that a single simple truth lay hidden behind all, and he resolved to find that.
		For the next ten years, Novak poured body and soul into independent research, exploring every conceivable approach to understanding the nature of death in the afterlife, studying psychology, archaeology, physiology, history, theology, comparative religion, mythology, folklore, many varieties of modern parapsychological research.
		He examined and compared the afterlife beliefs and religious texts of hundreds of cultures, old and new, interviewing and consulting with hundreds of near-death experiencers, past-life regression subjects, ghost reporters, after-life researchers, parapsychologists, theologians, religious scholars around the world.
		As Novak suspected from the beginning, there was a single truth, and it could be discovered.
		His book, The Division of Consciousness, is the story of that search and that discovery.
		Here is Peter Novak.
		Peter, welcome to the program.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you actually physically, Peter?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		I'm just outside of South Bend, Indiana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		South Bend, Indiana.
		All right.
		How old are you now, Peter?
		May I ask?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		I'm 40.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're 40.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		How long ago did you lose your wife?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		In 1985.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		85?
		That's a long time ago.
		So you were young.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was in my 20s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Might we ask what happened?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Actually, it was a suicide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
		All right.
		I can understand, Peter, that I can surely understand if that were to occur to me right now, my quest would deepen.
		And I've been on this quest to understand all the things that you have been researching.
		And I can surely understand what drove you then to begin looking into all of this.
unidentified		Is it...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was she your soulmate?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, were you two very much in love?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we were very close.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God.
		So, of course, you would want to understand the nature of life, I guess, and death.
		And they're all tied up together, sort of, when you talk about consciousness, aren't they?
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess let's begin with a simple sort of 101 on consciousness.
		Peter, what is consciousness?
		How do you define that?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would have to go with what psychology has been studying and what it claims to have discovered over the last century.
		It basically describes the human psyche as being composed of two parts, the conscious and the unconscious.
		And I've been very interested in the division of labor between the two halves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand that, but going back to just consciousness for a second, so that we can understand that, what is consciousness?
		Is it simply self-awareness, awareness of self?
		Is that how we define consciousness?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		I would describe it as being awareness, not necessarily of self.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Awareness.
		Just awareness, huh?
		right because uh...
		of your surroundings of uh...
		demonstration of the motion i'm asking these questions because we're struggling of course to understand what consciousness And one day we may get a conscious computer.
		And so would a computer simply being aware constitute a conscious computer, aware of its surroundings?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Well, there may be the distinction between consciousness and self-aware consciousness might be that's probably an important distinction.
		I think that most people would describe self-aware consciousness as being, They would equate the two as being consciousness.
		But I think that there would be such a thing as consciousness without being aware of being conscious.
		Like in some lower animals, they could very easily be aware of a number of things in their environment, but they've never actually realized that they are conscious.
		They're more externally oriented.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm struggling with that one, too.
		That's another really, really interesting question, and that is whether animals have consciousness, whether animals, in effect, have souls.
		Those may be two separate questions, but I would at the very least believe that animals are conscious.
		Now, do you have an animal that is close to you, a dog, a cat, something like that?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have some pet cats.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pet cats, I do too.
		That's what I favor is cats.
		And I don't think I have any question in my mind about the fact that a cat is conscious, aware of its surroundings, certainly aware of itself, aware of its needs, sometimes so amazingly so that I kind of go, oh, this is one smart cat, you know, thinking, obviously thinking about things.
		I have to look at a couple of my cats, and I can almost see their little cat brains, the wheels turning, you know.
		Anyway, a division of consciousness, however we accept consciousness, a division, what do you mean by that?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Well, if we refer to the distinction of the conscious and unconscious habits of the mind, the conscious, the science says, is logical and rational and objective.
		And it's the side of the mind that makes the decisions that has free will.
		The unconscious is pretty much the opposite.
		It's subjective and emotional, and it possesses the memory, but it's not logical, and it does not have free will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it doesn't have free will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't have free will.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the unconscious, that's what the scientists have been saying for about a century now, yeah.
		As a matter of fact, as far as it being possible to be conscious but not being self-aware conscious, I think you might see that sometimes in dreams.
		In dreams, you're aware of what's going on, but you're very often not actually aware that you're aware.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you don't really have control.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are some people who claim they can control their dreams, but I am not afraid of the control.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		No, that's an exception to the rule.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've never controlled one of mine.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		No, me neither.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And in fact, you've never done a lot of things.
		You've never had an NDE.
		You've never seen a ghost.
		You've never done any of that.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		All I've done is study them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		study them.
unidentified		What did you...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In studying all of these religions, reports of life after death, and all the rest of this parapsychological stuff, what did you conclude?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Well, at first I concluded that there were very many different stories about life after death, and none of them seemed to agree with each other.
		But then at one point I realized that plugging what science has discovered about the nature and functions of the mind into the equation, all of a sudden, all the different stories and legends and traditions and reports about the afterlife suddenly seemed to make good sense.
		I realized that a simple theory would account for the majority of phenomena that are being reported.
		And that theory was that the two halves of the mind, the conscious and the unconscious, would divide apart at death and each would go on alone experiencing the afterlife separately, cut off from the other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's interesting.
		That the conscious and the unconscious would separate and both go to the afterlife.
		Now, what have you concluded about reincarnation, if anything?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that the reincarnation scenario is related to the conscious mind if it were separated from the unconscious after death.
		If the conscious and the unconscious habits of the mind divided apart, the conscious would be left without any memory whatsoever, in total amnesia, but still in full possession of its free will, still able to make new decisions and initiate new experiences, free to start a whole new life and a whole new identity.
		And that sounds an awful lot like reincarnation to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could I substitute the word soul for conscious, the consciousness?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, I relate soul to the unconscious and spirit to the conscious.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		As far as terminology goes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really something.
		That's a little confusing for me.
		And the one problem that I've always had with reincarnation is the fact that there is no continuation of consciousness of memory and of a self-awareness.
		Of any sort of self-awareness at all.
		That occurs only seemingly at the unconscious level.
		And you know, when people do hypnotic regression or something like that and deeply probe into a person's background, they find they may have lived another life, but never does the consciousness know it has lived another life.
		Never.
		And so I always wondered, what good is that?
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 10, 1999.
		I am blue, see that girl, watch that scene, digging, standing green.
		Friday night and the lights are low, looking out for a place to go.
		We're the place of art, music, getting in the swing, you come to look for a thing.
		Anybody could be that guy, night is young and music high.
		We're the people of us, music, everything's fine, you're in the mood for dance.
		What the people need is a way to make them smile.
		It ain't no way to do it too well.
		Gotta give a message, get it all through.
		Oh, now mama's gonna do that to why.
		Oh, oh, oh.
		It's a music.
		Oh, oh.
		It's a music.
		Oh, oh.
		It's a music.
		All night.
		Well, I know you don't care about everything I say.
		Meet me in the country for a day.
		We'll be happy every day.
		Oh, oh.
		We can do a thing.
		Feeling good.
		Feeling fine.
		Oh, oh.
		Baby, just feel me great.
		Oh, oh.
		Just feel me great.
		Oh, oh.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 10th, 1999.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Top of the evening or morning, depending on where you are, everybody.
		Great to be here.
		Peter Novak is my guest.
unidentified		Peter Novak is my guest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, before going back to Peter Novak, very quickly, you remember my emailer's response from the Soho people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remember that?
unidentified		Hmm?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To quote Paul McCartney, they finally said, stumped, tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the sun.
		Listen to this.
		Death flares.
		This is from Discover Magazine, April of 98.
		A Yale astronomer, Bradley Schaefer, has some interesting news for those of us who live here on Earth.
		He recently discovered that several nearby stars that closely resemble our very own sun can become violent, shooting off flares powerful enough to fly a planet more than a billion, that's a billion with a B miles away.
		These things are 100 to 10 million times larger than the biggest solar flares ever seen.
		That's from you.
		Tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the sun.
		I'm going to remember that forever.
		Back now to my guest, Peter Novak.
		We're talking about consciousness and actually a little bit about reincarnation.
		And where I left off with you, Peter, was that I've always pondered and I sort of leaned toward the concept of reincarnation, but I wondered always what good is it in the sense that I have no memories of any prior life, none whatsoever.
		And without those memories, what have I learned and how am I progressing?
		You're not.
		That's what I say.
		I'm not progressing.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		You're exactly right.
		I do think that reincarnation occurs, but I think the fact that we lose our memories is a colossal cosmic mistake.
		I think it's something actually related to the mythologies that we find in the Bible as far as involve Adam and Eve and all that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whoa, you can't just do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you say mythology involving Adam and Eve?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Well, the various creation myths.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Creation myths?
		Did you say creation myths?
		Right.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		I think that they speak of actual events that occurred in which the conscious and the unconscious split apart for the first time.
		I think that was when we started reincarnating without remembering.
		Wow.
		If you look at the processes of how people say we reincarnate, it doesn't make any sense.
		Why would we go over these over and over and over again if we just lose everything at the end of every round?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		What have we learned?
		Nothing.
		Just down here and play the game again from the start.
		But I'm not quite certain what you're saying here.
		You say creation myths.
		Do you believe that there was an Adam and Eve?
		You obviously do not, apparently.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		I would say that the stories are allegorical, that they are symbolic of actual events.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I don't know that they're as alleged Adam and Eve were literal, then explain how it's allegorical.
		In other words, what really, if that didn't happen, what happened that caused somebody to make up that story?
		How about that?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		There are a number of creation stories from cultures all over the world that start the story of existence, the story of the beginning of Mankind and earth and all that with the same idea of a very early primordial division in which there was a single godlike being or
		a single substance which divided apart into two parts and then these two parts start to interact with one another.
		There's a lot of different legends that describe this but the most familiar to our culture would be the story of Adam and Eve in which Eve is taken from Adam's side.
		If you actually look at the original Hebrew that the Bible was taken from, you find that the word that is most commonly translated as side or as rib can actually also be translated as side, in which case the story is saying that one whole side of Adam was removed from him.
unidentified		So Eve was of Adam.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Eve was half of what had been his whole being.
		I think that was the beginning of the human unconscious.
		Why is it that our minds are divided into two parts?
		When Freud first introduced this idea to the scientific community, the idea that the mind has this lower level that we're not familiar with, this unconscious, he thought it was an aberration.
		He did not think it was natural.
		He said, it obviously exists, there's so much evidence supporting it, but there's something very wrong about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we have sort of defined consciousness as awareness or even self-awareness.
		How would you define the unconscious mind?
		Is that the mind that we have when we sleep, when we dream?
		Is that the unconscious mind?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I would say so.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		It's also the mind that gives us our memories, that gives us our emotions, that gives us our intuition.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that something, because I would have thought it the other way around, that that would have been an artifact, those would be artifacts of the conscious mind, not the unconscious.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Well, according to what science has been discovering and describing for the last century, that that is the distinction, the division of labor in the mind, is that one half is this logical half, and the other side is the side that has the emotion and the memory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you think it is a big mistake that there was a division of this conscious and mindfulness?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		No, I think alienation might be better.
		I think there has always been a differentiation.
		Like, in order for consciousness to exist, you have to have an interplay between the objective and the subjective, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, of course.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but if these two parts are not merely differentiated to the point that they can interact, but if they're actually disassociated and alienated from each other, well, then you have problems.
		And I think that when people go through their lives and they're forever alienating themselves from their own unconscious, ignoring their own emotions, their own feelings, their own pangs of regret and intuition?
		All that.
		I think that every time you push these things back, pushing them back down out of your conscious mind, you're splitting your own mind apart a little bit more, and then when you die, you finally discover what you did to yourself.
		You end up going off in two different directions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Two different directions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you are saying, in essence, that the conscious, what we have called the conscious portion of ourselves, reincarnates.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Well, that would seem to be supported by what science says about how the mind works.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		What's interesting, you mentioned earlier about the past-life regressions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		And if the two halves of the mind divided apart, the conscious mind would be left without any emotion or memory.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		And without memory, it wouldn't have any ability to put any incoming data into any kind of context.
unidentified		And it wouldn't be able to recognize anything around it because it wouldn't be able to...
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It gets spanked, it draws air, and it begins deciding that bottles and nipples are good.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then it goes from there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it starts out at ground zero.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		In the beginning, at ground zero, there it would be with no feeling or emotion and no sense of context.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		It would feel itself to be floating utterly alone in nothingness, having no memory of who it is or what it was, having no emotion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or you go back all the way to the embryo, actually, just to see.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually beyond that, if you read the reports about past life regression and you read reports of what people have said when they were regressed to a point in between lives, they describe that exact thing.
		They're sitting there, they're floating in nothingness.
		They recognize nothing around them.
		They don't recall their name.
		They don't recall actually ever having had any other life or any other existence other than floating.
		They have no memory, I mean no emotion.
		They're very calm and passionless.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And in a kind of a limbo, a dark, motionless limbo.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		And all that, all of those details are exactly what you would expect them to experience if they were a conscious mind that had been broken off, separated from their unconscious mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's say I accept that.
		And now let me ask you about the unconscious portion of the mind at death.
		What occurs to that?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Well, that explains a lot of things.
		It explains ghosts.
		It explains near-death experiences.
		that explains traditions of heaven and hell.
		As far as the near-death experience...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Traditions of heaven and hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The implication of that statement is that there is not heaven and hell as we understand it.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		I just meant that our traditions of heaven and hell go back farther.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Our reports of heaven and hell go back farther than merely modern-day stories of near-death experiences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then your studies would lead you to conclude there is in fact a heaven and hell?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		I would conclude, my studies would conclude that people do experience heavens and hells.
		I don't know that there is a single one of each.
		I think there may be an infinite variety of experiences.
		But what's interesting about the near-death experiences is that if when people first leave their bodies in a near-death experience, very, very commonly they will report floating above their body, being very calm and peaceful, unperturbed and dispassionate, watching people trying to revive them in many cases, all kinds of things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh yes.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Now this is, you know, this would be a very traumatic experience.
		You've gone through something physically traumatic and something totally unprecedented has happened.
		You left your body.
		This is not your time to be emotionally relaxed.
		This is a time to be very passionately involved in what's going on, but people are doing that.
		Just the opposite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Totally panicked, actually.
		Like, oh my God, I'm out of my body.
		Look at this.
		Yeah.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		So you would imagine that I think that this is another piece of evidence suggesting that their unconscious, the half of their mind that produces emotion, has been separated from them at that point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But in the case of people who have NDEs, there is a recombination of the unconscious and the conscious.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		At a later point, I believe that that recombination seems to occur at the time of the memory review.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean like the past, people call it, experiencers call it, the life review.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure you know of Daniel Brinkley.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's a good friend of mine, very good friend.
		I talked to him earlier today, in fact.
		Stricken with the flu at the moment.
		But he had a very, very, very intense, full life review.
		He was not a good person when he was younger.
		And he had to, he said, live the experiences of those he had treated poorly as they felt them.
		He felt them as he had dished it out.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		I think that the characteristics of the mind, of the unconscious, would absolutely insist that that sort of a memory review would occur if the mind divided apart at death.
		If the unconscious divided away from the conscious mind, it would be cut off from all logical thought processes, which would effectively isolate it from all objective reality.
		Its experience from that point on would be limited to subjectively reviewing, processing, and reacting to its own inner contents, its stored-up memories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that, in order to, in effect, feel what others felt from you and review your own life, in itself would seem to me to be a conscious exercise.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		No, I think it'd probably be automatic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But in order to review it, to be subjective about it, you would have to be able to consider it, feel it, experience it.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but these are all subjective processes that I think would occur automatically.
		The unconscious, one interesting, very interesting thing to me about the unconscious mind that science has been saying for the last hundred years is that the unconscious mind contains within itself, it's hardwired into the system, that it has a moral awareness, a moral quality to it, a natural awareness for issues of right and wrong.
		So I think that when the unconscious found itself isolated and alone and didn't have anything else to do but go back and start reviewing its memories, as it did that, it would become acutely aware of all violations of its own moral sense as it was going through those memories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It has no choice.
		It has absolutely no choice.
		This process occurs, period.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And the unconscious is also emotional and reactive.
		It's automatically emotional and automatically reactive.
		And so as it was going through those memories and it was judging them, basically saying, this is right, that was wrong, this is right, that was wrong, it would react to those judgments emotionally.
		If the judgments that it saw, that it felt, were good, it would react by feeling good.
		If those judgments were poor, it would react by feeling poor.
		And then we also know that the unconscious is very imaginative, you know, it's very fertile.
		And so as it was going through these memory reviews and these judgments and these reactions, it would build up elaborate dream world fantasies revolving around all of those things.
		I think it would create its own heaven out of its sense of joy from those memories and...
		Right, from its own agony.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would then, in effect, sentence itself to a period of joy or a period of, I don't know what's the right word, a period of, I don't know exactly like punishment, but self-inflicted agony over the guilt.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And what's interesting is that if the unconscious was isolated like that, these experiences would fill its entire field of awareness.
		They would become absolute, intense, ever-increasing.
		Whatever joy it felt would be an absolute joy.
		Whatever agony I felt would be an absolute agony.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On that note, hold on, Peter.
		Peter Novak is my guest.
		His book, The Division of Consciousness.
		Time after time.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Time after time, do we just keep coming back and doing it again?
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 10, 1999.
		To face and darkness has turned to crack.
		Watching through windows, you're wondering if I'm okay.
		Secrets stolen from deep inside.
		Music If you could read my love, what a tale my thoughts could tell.
		Just like an old-time movie about a ghost from a wish him well in a castle jar or a portrait strong with chains upon my feet.
		You know that ghost is me.
		And I will never be set free as long as I'm a ghost you can see.
		If I could read your mind, love, what a tale your thoughts could tell.
		Just like a paper back in the hole, the kind of drugstore sell.
		When you reach the part where the heartaches come, the hero would be me.
		Heroes of the day.
		You won't be.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premiere of Radio Networks, the night of on-core presentation of Ghost to Ghost AM from March 10th, 1999.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
		I'll never be set free as long as I'm a ghost you can't see.
		Gordon Lightfoot.
		Maybe my guest will have a take on that one.
		Anyway, we'll get back to my guest in a moment.
		The End I've got several interesting responses to Peter Novak already.
		The first I want to read you is this one.
		Hi, Art.
		I've just got to share this with you.
		We have an unconscious cat.
		This cat is so stupid that it has to think, what was that when it sees a mouse?
		I heard a noise the other night, says Phil from New Hampshire.
		Went out to the kitchen, and here's my unconscious cat, playing it safe with a mouse, not getting too close to it, but wanting to watch it.
		Now that's an unconscious cat.
		Zero mice caught in two years, but I love her anyway.
		Phil in Glen, New Hampshire.
		Then I guess you'll be able to tell what kind of response this is, Peter.
		It simply says, what a loser this guy is.
		God is consciousness.
		Don't you know?
		Read, understand, everything has consciousness because God is everything.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		care to respond to that in any way at all well actually would tend to agree but if you would I would tend to agree, but I think that, again, you have the division that has to be taken into account.
		In the Bible and a number of other traditions, God seems to have two different sides to him.
		In the Bible talks about God having both a soul and a spirit.
		And it's interesting that they describe these as being very similar to the way that modern science describes the conscious and the unconscious.
		God's spirit is very often shown to be speaking or thinking or acting, whereas his soul is shown to be feeling or to be remembering.
		These are all classic characteristics associated with the conscious and the unconscious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Maybe this will help.
		Art a thought.
		Perhaps Peter could walk us through a typical NDE and explain what happens as it reflects his theory of the conscious and the unconscious.
		In other words, the typical NDE.
		What does a person go through?
		I've interviewed many, but I'd like to get your take.
unidentified		What is a typical NDE, Peter?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not entirely sure that in an NDE, because they do come back, I don't know that there is a final, an absolute division that does occur between the conscious and the unconscious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well said.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		I think that there is some degree of splitting, but I don't think it's total.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I got you.
		That split only occurs when you're really dead, dead, all the way dead.
		Right.
		Dead as in not coming back for several days, weeks, months, years, ever.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		But some of the things that people do report do reflect this division in process.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Like when they first separate from the body and they describe not having any emotion or feeling, that suggests that there's been some division and the person at that point is speaking from the perspective of the conscious mind alone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		I understand exactly what you're saying.
		Where do you believe that the wife that you tragically lost is now?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, that had a lot to do with the whole beginning of my search.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course it would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		When my wife died, she left a daughter just five months old at the time.
		And one of the things I kept on thinking about, well, what am I going to tell her about where her mother is now?
		That's how my whole search started.
		Five years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Five months old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you say five months old?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Five months old, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Five months old.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Oh, word.
		As far as where she is now, well, I would imagine my theory does not say that everyone always divides apart, that the conscious and unconscious.
		The evidence does not seem to suggest that this always happens, but it does suggest that it happens frequently, maybe even most of the time.
		So I would suggest that part of her is in some kind of an unconscious, a dream world reality, and the other half perhaps has reincarnated by now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you see the movie, You Must Have?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What Dreams May Come?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Sure, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you regard that as perhaps in some way consistent with what you've been telling us tonight?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Parts of it were and parts of it did not seem to be.
		The unconscious does seem, the experience of the unconscious after death, it would seem to be that thoughts would form its reality very quickly, right?
		Whatever it thought about, that would be immediately what it experienced.
		Very, very much a subjective thing, very much like in a dream.
		As soon as you think of it, there it is.
		But on the other hand, if this division does occur, then in that unconscious dream world, there isn't any such thing as choosing or deciding.
		It's all pretty much an automatic process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It just happens.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Somebody else wrote to me, never say, never art.
		Well, I have learned that.
		You simply have not met an advanced soul who does remember.
		There are not many of those in the Western world.
		In fact, this whole world, Earth, for this world, is nothing more than a child.
		And what child of one year of age can even remember yesterday?
		Interesting and true.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		There are a lot of people who do claim to remember past lives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not one of them.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not either.
		I'm not either.
		But you have to acknowledge that these reports are out there.
		I'm not entirely sure how integrated these people are as far as do they simply have fleeting memories of their past lives?
		Or have they actually integrated those previous identities with their present identity?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then you think your wife has separated and one part of her has already, the conscious portion of her, has reincarnated?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		I don't know how long it takes to reincarnate.
		I think it's possible.
		I don't know.
		It could be that she's still floating in that nothingness.
		Maybe they do that for years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, surely because of your particular tragedy and interest, you must have had particular attention to those who take their own lives.
		What have you concluded about that?
		Is there a difference?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		I would expect that people who do that are more divided, or as divided as a human being can be, and I would consider it very unlikely that they would end up.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		If there is such a thing as a division between the conscious and the unconscious after death, I think there would be some of the people most certain to go through that division.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The traditional concept of reincarnation is that you keep coming back until you more or less get it right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that oversimplified, but is that about right?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		That's a very common interpretation, right?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that somebody who might take their own life, for example, would be seen as certainly not getting it right and would be more likely to divide and return.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do I have that right?
unidentified		That makes sense to me, yeah.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You investigated ghosts?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and again, I found them to be a lot of the reports seem to be very similar with this concept of the mind explaining the different kinds of ghosts.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		You know, one of the most commonly reported kind of a ghost is the sleepwalking ghost, the haunting ghost, the one that goes through the same motions over and over and over again, wearing really, really old clothing, walking through old buildings, going possibly even through old floor plans that don't even exist anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I call it the tape loop ghost.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		This is exactly the sort of behavior that you would expect from an unconscious if it was separated from its conscious mind.
		It would be left without any rational intellect, totally subjective and isolated from objective reality, running on full automatic, reviewing its memories, experiencing them again and again and again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're the first one.
		You're the first one that has ever, Peter, explained that to me in a way I could understand.
		Now that suddenly makes sense.
		If there is a division, that would explain the tape loop ghost.
		Gosh, that's fascinating.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Now there's another kind of ghost that is less commonly reported.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		It's like it's a lost soul kind of ghost.
unidentified		Yes.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		And I think that could very well be the conscious mind when it's separated from the unconscious.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		It would have perfect and total amnesia and it would be unable to recall or perceive any meaning or pattern or context in anything it encountered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It might not even know it's dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		It wouldn't know much of anything.
		It wouldn't be able to make sense out of anything that it saw.
		Wandering aimlessly, lost, confused.
		It's a very commonly reported type of ghost.
		Not as common as the other one, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That makes all the sense in the world.
		So what kind of transition did you make in your own mind as you began Investigating all of this.
		Do you think that you arrived at the conclusions you arrived at because you wanted to or because of objective research?
		You understand the nature of that question.
		Obviously, you were emotionally impacted by the suicide of your wife, and so have you ever wondered yourself, Peter, whether your conclusions are a result of your experience?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		I have been very reluctant to embrace these conclusions simply because, you know, basically what I'm saying is that I've discovered an explanation that makes sense of all the different afterlife reports and traditions, and that's a very big claim to make.
		Yes, it is.
		And so I have reviewed the research and the material and the data again and again and again, and still I have been hesitant.
		You know, when I first discovered this and I first came across this theory that seemed to put it all together that make sense, I thought I was going crazy.
		I thought, this isn't possible.
		This kind of answer people are ever going to find.
		No one is going to find this answer.
		That's a belief that a lot of people have today, and it's a belief that inside of me, I guess I had a little bit.
		I was very reluctant to even consider the fact an answer that I would have found it anyway.
		So I kept on looking and reviewing the research.
		But the fact is that the material out there, the afterlife reports, as well as the ancient traditions from religions, they all fit into this pattern.
		According to this one little idea, that the conscious and the unconscious divide of heart, it explains virtually all the evidence I have encountered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you think the traditional psychology, you studied psychology at Purdue, how do you think the traditional psychology community would react to your findings?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Well, about 50 years ago, they would have been a lot more interested in them than they would be now because for the last 50 years, 30 years anyway, the study of psychology has gone a lot more into trying to explain everything in terms of brain function, in terms of just a piece of meat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Piece of meat.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		But earlier than that, the origins of psychology with Freud and Jung described the mind as being independent of the body.
		And they described their research described the two halves of the mind that I'm interested in, the conscious and the unconscious.
		That was back, what, in the first half of the century.
		Now that view of the nature of the mind got a big boost about 15 years ago with the book "Right Brain, Left Brain," which again supported the idea that there were two very different halves of the mind that functioned in these ways.
		And then that view got another big boost just last year with the book "Of Two Minds" written by Frederick Schiffer, a professor at Harvard, which again is talking about the mind having two...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		When you go back, you've labeled Adam and Eve as sort of an allegorical thing.
		And creation, what is it you believe about creation?
		Let there be light.
		Any thoughts on that?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that those stories to some degree reflect the beginnings of self-aware consciousness within reality, within God itself, perhaps.
		The first time that objective thought and subjective thought differentiated from each other enough that they could interact.
		If you have an eye staring off blankly into space, it's never going to see itself, realize that it's there and that it's conscious.
		You need that mirror, the unconscious, the subjective part, for it to reflect back upon itself so it can see and say, yes, I see myself.
		I am aware.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		We're going to take a break here at the bottom of the hour.
		And when we come back, I want to take a few phone calls and see what all of you think.
		Peter Novak is my guest.
		And his book is The Division of Consciousness.
		I do have one more question, which goes back to the Bible.
		What about he who walked 2,000 years ago?
		Allegorical or real?
		I'm Mark Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Mark Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 10, 1999.
		Coast AM from March 10, 1999.
		You are the first to be able to make a new one.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired March 10, 1999.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps people in the void.
		Disturbed the sounding of silence.
		I'm Art Bell.
		My guest, Peter Novak, will be right back.
		you you I've got this fax from Boston, I think.
		Yep.
		Hello from Boston, it says.
		The fax is entitled, I sold my soul on eBay.
		How are you, Art?
		I fell in love with your show on a road trip to Atlanta last year and been listening ever since.
		Say, you know that online auction site, eBay?
		Well, I was paying them my daily visit the other night and discovered the strangest thing.
		People selling their souls.
		Some souls are getting upwards of $10 million.
		Some souls even come with bonus cat souls.
		If you do a search for a human soul, you'll see what I'm talking about.
		What are you looking for?
		He goes on, now, I'm not the one to say if this is all humor or if it's for real, but can you imagine if people are actually paying for other people's souls?
		Please respond in any way you can.
		If you can get online during a show, I suggest you do it and read a couple of the auctions on air.
		For instance, one human soul slightly damaged due to lightning strike.
		Thanks for your time and good night.
		Scott in Boston.
		Well, I'm going to have to give that a try, Scott.
		I don't know.
		What are you looking for?
		Hi there, Peter, welcome back.
		Hi, thanks.
		I want to give you an opportunity.
		We're going to go to the phones here in this segment, but I want to give you an opportunity to plug your book, The Division of Consciousness.
		Where is that book available?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		It's available at most of the big bookstores, you know, Barnes and Noble's, Borders, that sort of thing.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		And of course, you can get on the internet at Amazon.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I think we've got a link to that on my website, so they could go there.
		All right.
		Very good.
		So available nationally and Amazon.com through my website, blah, blah, blah.
		So that's good.
		That's easy.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Peter Novak.
		Good morning to you.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
		Nice to talk to you, Art.
		I'm called from Bellingham, Washington, KGIM 790.
		This is Sonny.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Sunny.
unidentified		I'd like to pose a question to Mr. Novak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Is it possible, or did which side of the brain do you think, if it's possible, form first, the right of the left?
		I would say would be the right form first because it found out it couldn't survive without the left.
		You couldn't wrestle a rhino to the ground with the feelings.
		You have to have some logic on the left-hand side.
		And if my theory is true, would the two sides now be working and evolving toward a third, let's say a third of a third of a third of a brain instead of just two halves?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Peter?
unidentified		That's my question.
		Good night, Art.
		I'm going to listen off the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which part of the brain evolved first, do you think, Peter, right or left?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, I think that they probably evolved simultaneously, and they then slowly differentiated.
		There was originally a single...
		I don't identify the two.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you have been sort of preaching throughout all this that a separation between what the psychologists are now looking at in modern day as the meat that we are, the physical meat that we are, versus the immortal aspects of ourselves, yes?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Right, exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay, that's what I thought it was.
		All right, in that case, we'll not discuss the other part.
		One quick question before we go back to Hones, and that is, that man who walked around here a couple thousand years ago described in the Bible allegorical or absolutely?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that that was not only a true story, I think that's the whole linchpin of history and the linchpin of this theory that I'm talking about.
		If this theory is correct, and we do divide, the most people divide apart a death, we keep on losing our souls.
		We keep on losing our unconscious minds and all of our memories and all of our egos life after life after life, and they keep building up and building up and building up in the collective unconscious, I assume.
		And they would be forever lost to us if not for what that man did 2,000 years ago.
		I don't know if I can explain it all over the phone, but I believe that what he did allowed was the thing that allowed the Judgment Day prophecies to actually be possible, that they could be fulfilled.
		And which, of course, you know, that one of the most important things about that is that all the dead from all past history is supposed to rise back up again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I know.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		I think that what he did made that possible.
		But what's interesting is that if this theory is true, if reincarnation is true, then all those people, all those past dead that are supposed to return again in the last day, they are not going to return in separate bodies, but instead they're going to be popping up from within the backs of our own minds, popping up back up to consciousness within our own skulls.
		And we're going to suddenly have, what, dozens or hundreds of other people floating around inside of our own bodies at the same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What a mess that's going to be.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Because a lot of the Old Testament prophecies about Judgment Day describe that very thing.
		They talk about an invasion.
		The Judgment Day would be the time of a great Invasion and they describe the invading army as being ancient and enduring, the most ruthless of all peoples.
		And if it was an army of the recently risen from the dead souls, they would be both ancient and enduring.
		And as people who quite literally knew what it meant to be dead, they would indeed be very ruthless.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Understood.
		All right.
		Fascinating.
		Wildguard Line, you're on the air.
		Hello there.
unidentified		Yeah, Art.
unidentified		This is Alan from Salem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, meet Peter Novak and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hi, Peter.
		I've got something I wanted to ask you here.
		That man you're talking about that existed 2,000 years ago, it talks about him in the book removing demons from people who are possessed.
		Now, these demons can move from person to person, and they don't die.
		They just keep moving down the line.
		In the Bible, it's written that everyone is to be born in the flesh only once.
		Now, my idea on this is the fact that these demons possess memories, and they can go into one person, bring the memories from the last person they were in to that person.
		And this is the general consensus that most Christians have, because, of course, most Christians don't believe in reincarnation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, in other words, what he is thinking of reincarnation, you view as a demon jumping from one mortal to another.
unidentified		And bringing those memories and fooling the person into thinking they were that person, even though those memories were brought to that person by that demon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Clearly, I understand.
unidentified		It's just something I wanted to throw in there.
unidentified		I'll let you go now, and I sure appreciate your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you very much.
unidentified		Peter, there's one for you.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that such themes as demons do exist, and in fact, I think that they are composed of composites of discarded souls within the collective unconscious.
		But I think that most people, when they do, I don't think that, first of all, there's very many people that do recall their past life memories.
		But what's interesting is that most of the people that do seem to be, they don't seem to present any indications of being possessed on the country.
		They seem to be people of exceptional integrity and honor and even spirituality.
		So I think that it would be a poor argument to make to say that these people are possessed when they actually seem to have some of the highest examples of human...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, have I got a call for you, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Peter Novak.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, dear?
unidentified		I'm in South Carolina.
unidentified		My name is Brenda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Brenda, all right?
unidentified		I saw on a program, I think it was called The Other Side, where if you asked a child that was three or under if they remembered their having died, that a lot of them could.
unidentified		So I tried it on my granddaughter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you did?
unidentified		Yes, and she scared me to death.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did she say?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did she say, Brenda?
unidentified		She told me, yes, that she remembered three men broke into her house and they were trying to take her, and she all of a sudden dropped her head and she says, Grandmommy, I wished I hadn't screamed and woke mommy up because they killed mommy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
unidentified		And it was...
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you ask her exactly?
unidentified		How did you ask her?
		I just said, Jessica, do you remember when you died?
		And she said, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		She started telling me about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		It scared me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Believe me, I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Peter, have you done any research into this sort of thing?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		There's a book that's been written on this, on the past life memories of children.
		I don't remember the name of it, actually, but it's something that came out within the last few years.
		Yeah, I think that kids seem to be able to have more memory of the past lives than adults do.
		Very fascinating.
		Again, this would support the idea that in order to obtain these memories, you have to have some degree of integrity, which kids do and they don't lose really until they get older.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Brenda?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old is that child now?
unidentified		She's five.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She's five.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, in a few years, you ought to try it again and see what you get.
unidentified		I tried it on her sister and it didn't work on her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old was she?
unidentified		She just laughed at me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how old was she?
unidentified		She was like two when I asked her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She was two and she laughed.
unidentified		Right.
		She just laughed about it.
		She wouldn't tell me anything.
		So I figured she just didn't remember because she seemed really puzzled by it.
		But her older sister, she had a problem after relating this to me.
		She started to have nightmares about the men breaking in and getting her and her mother.
		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow, that's absolutely remarkable, Brenda.
		And I'm not sure whether to say you have random anecdotal evidence and whether you shouldn't have asked that question or whether you really do have something significant.
		That's really something.
unidentified		I didn't want to believe in reincarnation until she was so sincere about it and went into such detail about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		Did you do any research?
		Did you ask her what was your name or anything like that?
unidentified		No, I didn't because it freaked me out so bad.
		And it was bothering her, too.
		And I just wanted her to forget about it.
		Nothing else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Brenda, thank you.
		That is remarkable.
		That is really remarkable.
		And it certainly would scream for more research.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Peter Novak.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good evening, Art.
unidentified		Firstly, I'd like to say my thoughts are with Richard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		The gentleman who keeps attacking them.
		Well, personally, I think he's mentally impotent for attacking someone for their beliefs.
		Well, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mentally impotent, not for that, but for attacking, not for beliefs, not for data points, but personal ad hominem attacks just to attack.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty lame.
unidentified		Well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if somebody wants to attack what you believe, then, hey, no problem.
		If they want to attack your theories, your data, your logic, whatever that is, that's fine.
		That's supposed to happen and better happen, or we're not being honest with each other.
		But when you just attack a person's character, that's a different story.
unidentified		True enough.
		True enough.
		Anyway, my question is, for your guest, why would they so-called, I guess, recycle the conscious half instead of the subconscious?
		I mean, wouldn't there be, like, wouldn't it be better, actually, to, you know, recycle the subconscious?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Well, as far as being able to retain, you know, what you've done over the course of a life, yeah, sure, that would be better.
		I don't know it's a matter of everything being designed this way.
		I'm pretty much convinced that the whole division and the loss of memory was a mistake.
		It's an error that has been introduced into a system that was working properly before that error occurred.
		I think that the whole biblical idea about history, about there being a fall from grace, and then Jesus came to correct it, and then at judgment day, everything is going to get restored to the way it was before.
		I think that all fits into this.
		That the fall from grace was when we first started doing this dividing, and things haven't been working right since.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Anyway, thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you, sir.
		And you too, Wildcard Line.
		You're on the air with Peter Novak.
unidentified		Oh, hi.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm calling from Honolulu, KHVH.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		And then it sounds like we are in a three-dimensional world with time.
		So before we're born, I guess we're in an infinite time.
		Well, there's no time, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A place where there is no time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I quite agree with you, and I think that Peter does as well.
unidentified		Yeah.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's the conscious, or both the soul and the spirit.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		You know, whether you're talking about the spirit weighing in between lives or the soul in its dream world, neither one seems to experience time the same way that we do, according to the reports.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I think the unconscious, if that's eternal, that would be like the Kashik records that the Indians talk about.
		Right, right.
		So that would be the eternal thing.
		And then our consciousness we get from birth because we enter this three dimension with time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And then let's see.
		Oh yeah, and then what you were talking about before, the grace, that would be like when we're in this another dimension that's beyond time, before we're born.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Right.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Independent of time, I suppose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One could imagine doing research.
		If you go back to the lady who was on the air with us a little while ago, who was so fascinating, I think it was Brenda.
		If you were to do a more involved investigation, if you didn't get freaked out, and I'm like Brenda, I would have freaked out.
		If you could actually get a name and a place and a time to go with what occurred, the way you were killed or died in the prior life, then you could actually do research and you could endeavor to prove that.
		And you do that from a two or three year old.
		And baby, I'm not sure how you argue against that one if you do the research.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		That research has been ongoing.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Ian Stevenson from University of Virginia has spent his whole life compiling data along those lines of memories of past lives and then trying to follow up with actual data that supports those stories about people and places and events from the past.
unidentified		How would anybody possibly dispute that?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		I don't know, but they do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just can't understand how they would dispute it.
		Not from a two- or three-year-old.
		You say they do.
		Well, all right.
		You have been very, very, very interesting to have on the air, and I hope that people will run out and get your book.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		I hope so, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		It has been a pleasure to have you on the air, Peter, and you've given me a lot to think about.
		And the high point of the night for me, I discuss this kind of thing all the time, has been the explanation, rather elegant I must say, of what I call the tape reel or the tape loop ghost.
		No one has ever, ever, ever answered that one for me until you came around.
		How long did you take to write this book, Peter?
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		I started the research, well, after my wife died, and I came up with this theory in 1988.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		And it took me nine years to write the book and the publisher.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nine years.
		That's a lot of research.
		That's a whole lot of research.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		And there's an awful lot of it that ended up in the book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		In that case, people have a lot to look forward to, Peter.
		Again, my thanks for coming on the air with me, and you've given me a lot to think about.
peter novak ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good night.
		That is Peter Novak, and his book is The Division of Consciousness.
		And that is indeed something to consider, isn't it?
		All right, what we are going to do with the remainder of the evening, another couple hours, is nothing but open lines.
		Unscreened, unpredictable, the complete unknown.
		Brenda was a particularly interesting call, wasn't she?
		If you would like to respond to what Brenda had to say, if you have an answer for that that would make some sense, I'd like to hear it.
		Because I just can't imagine any reasonable answer to what a three-year-old would say about just an immediate response with an absolute story about how she died.
		That really is eerie, isn't it?
		All right, we're going to break here at the top of the hour, and when we come back, two hours of the absolute unknown.
		So if you've got something you'd like to slip in, here we are from the high desert.
		I'm Art Bell.
		The news on Richard Hoagland.
unidentified		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard has come through the operation intact and is in recovery.
		And we're going to have to watch him very closely for the next, oh, 48 hours, let's say, and get him out of the woods.
		So if you've been thinking good thoughts, don't stop.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from March 10, 1999.
		Music Music Music Music Never be what you wanna be.
		Everything who you gotta be.
		Take the long way more.
		Take the long way to go When you're up on the stage, it's all unbelievable Oh, unforgettable I may adore you But then you're watching to think you're losing your sanity
		Oh, calamity Oh, there's no way Oh, yeah
		'Cause you feel that your life's become a catastrophe Premier Radio Networks Pretends Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight's program originally aired March 10th, 1999.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's Ross Mitchell, voice of Ross Mitchell, and he's making, since my area code has changed, actually it's in the process of change.
		I really feel so violated about that, incidentally.
		He's making new bumpers, and I've offered up a suggestion today, and if he does it, it's really going to be a cool bumper.
		Number bumper.
		Anyway, there'll be new ones soon because of my new area code.
		Has that happened to you?
unidentified		For a while, you feel violated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They have taken your number.
		Soon your name.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey.
unidentified		Change that dial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't touch that dial.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Very good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on.
unidentified		How are you doing, dude?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm well, pretty good, actually.
unidentified		You're going to hang out with me until you get back on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I am back on.
unidentified		Oh, outstanding.
		Hey, listen, about six months ago, a couple months ago, which means you're on, too.
		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see what I'm saying?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we're both on air.
unidentified		Okay, well, I'm in the other room also.
unidentified		I'm looking for this guy you had on about six months ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And he said that he saw some sort of plasmic energy type being thing falling through the ceilings, and the cats could see him, and people could see them coming out of the corner of their eyes.
unidentified		Not out of the corner of their eyes, but you could see that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember that, but I don't remember who it was either.
unidentified		No, you know, I vaguely remember seeing some of these things.
unidentified		You always turn your head and you kind of think you see things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I was just wondering if I could, well, you can't remember, so I guess I can't get the information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Things seen at the edge of vision.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a line I used for dreaming.
unidentified		The thing seen at the end of the edge of vision.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The edge of vision, yes.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		Well, I was just, you know, geez, I was scratching my head hardly, just trying to get back to that sort of date when you were talking about it.
		You know, I was trying to, you guys are on such late at night.
		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, well, you know, there is, of course, Dreamland, right?
unidentified		Don't you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I sat down and I concentrated really, really hard on what to say for Dreamland, how to frame what Dreamland is about, which also now really is what Coast is about too.
		Listen to the words in the opening to Dreamland.
		Listen to what I say.
		Because I thought hard about it before I wrote it, and it's right on the money.
		Listen to this.
unidentified		Listen to this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
		Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped.
		And yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
		I guess is Dreamland.
		I thought really hard when I wrote that about what I wanted the program to be, what I wanted the whole concept to be, and that explains it very well indeed.
		And that's really what we do here now as well.
		Things seen at the edge of vision.
		And there are a lot of things like that, aren't there?
		Whether you see them for real or see them in your mind's eye, sometimes you catch a glimpse of them at the edge of vision.
		Sometimes it's just a metal thing.
		But they're as real as the telephone lines blinking in front of me.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, how you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just fine, sir.
unidentified		Is this Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good guess.
unidentified		Okay, I'm sorry.
unidentified		I had to turn off my radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm the only one here, so when I answer the phone, that's the only possibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's got to be me.
unidentified		Okay, sorry about that.
		Hey, by the way, my name's Bill.
		I'm calling from St. Cloud, Minnesota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Bill.
unidentified		Okay, I sent you a little email just a little while back indicating that on July 5th, Wednesday of 1999, you're going to receive a vision that is going to unlock understanding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Me personally?
unidentified		Yeah, you personally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		July 5th, huh?
unidentified		Well, you're one of those people.
		Well, actually, all of us are involved with this.
		Are you familiar with non-linear existence?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No?
unidentified		Non-linear existence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, I could take that phrase apart and I could guess at its meaning, you know.
unidentified		Okay, well, essentially what it is, is where you can travel through the past, present, and future without aging, without becoming younger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
		No, believe me, I understand.
		I'll look forward to the vision.
		We talked about that earlier tonight.
		That only in our dimension, in our three dimensions, do we have an understanding of time, or does time have meaning at all?
		And that it may well be that, for example, when we die, we go to a place that virtually has no time, nor do we realize the passage of it.
		There is no reference.
		You've really got to let your mind open up to understand and accept that possibility.
		That there would be a place where time would not exist.
		It simply would be not relevant.
		Nor would you notice the passage of anything you would call time.
		It simply isn't there.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
unidentified		This is Brett from Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I had an experience where I understood you were looking for this faith that a lot of people have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I suppose I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm looking for it in a very demanding manner, which may mean I'll never find it.
unidentified		Okay, experiment number eight.
		But you have to be kind of down on the rocks to get there.
		That's why a lot of people say Christianity is a crutch, because you've got to lean hard.
		That's what faith is.
		So experiment number eight would be, just ask Jesus Christ some night when you're alone.
		If he's real, to show you.
		That's what I did, and I found out he's real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'm going to tell you a truth.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have done that.
unidentified		What happened?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nothing.
unidentified		That's what I mean.
		Keep on.
		How can you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I understand what you're saying, but I've done that.
		Come on, don't think I haven't.
		Haven't you all done that?
		Haven't you ever said things like you know the reborn do, you know, the reborn people out there, there's a lot of them.
		Jesus, if you're there, God, come into my life.
		Give me a sign, that kind of thing, right?
		We all ask ourselves those personal things.
		So don't think I haven't done that.
		So far, nothing apparent.
		No particular answer, at least one that I would understand.
		Sure, I've done that.
		Of course, I think everybody has done that.
		some people seem to get answers and confirmations and others just keep asking West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, what's going on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You right now, so turn your radio off.
unidentified		I got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
		Wait a minute.
		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And your first name is?
unidentified		Tim.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tim, okay.
unidentified		And I was listening to your program last night?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I was extremely distraught by the information portrayed there.
unidentified		And my girlfriend's sort of forbidden me from listening to you, but here I am again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Man, you're really breaking that one.
		Listening.
		I mean, you're calling.
		Participating in the madness.
unidentified		Well, you know, it's the first time for me and everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did she say that?
		I mean, how did she forbid you?
		Didn't you bring up the Bill of Rights?
		Didn't you say, woman, I'm king of my house, damn it.
		If I want to listen to this, I'll listen to it.
		Get away from me, woman.
		Bring me a beer.
unidentified		It's not that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What, then?
unidentified		She just said that she didn't like me to listen to it.
unidentified		Because, like, I'm a bit of a skeptic myself and don't want to believe everything that you portray in your program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't believe it either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't believe everything.
unidentified		But I think that the press as a whole isn't addressing the issue of, like, a solar flare to the extent that it should be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Shall I go over my McCartney quote again?
		Yeah, go for it.
		Tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the sun.
		I mean, it took several scientists at the jet propulsion lab there to come up with that in an answer.
		Tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the sun.
		McCartney quote.
unidentified		Well, that's what we pay the scientists all the government money for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to at least, I guess, say they've got a sense of humor.
		Or not.
		I don't know.
unidentified		No, I didn't.
unidentified		Well, hey, I really enjoy the program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		And I did meditate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, remember, next time, show a little pride.
		I mean, say, look, I'm king of this household.
		Away from me.
		All right?
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And call me from the hospital.
unidentified		Will do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi, Ert.
		This is Gene from Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Gene.
		Wait a minute.
		I discern you're on a cellular phone.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm sorry, but I'm one of those drive-and-work people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At 2.17 in the morning in the West, you're going to work?
unidentified		No, I drive a taxi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, oh, I see.
		All right.
		Well, anyway, welcome.
unidentified		Anyway, I would like to say two things.
		I'm really happy that I managed to get on the air.
		And the first one is that there are quite a few people in Seattle that listen to you.
		And it would be a lot nicer if I could just prod them into continuing to come to the Art Belt Chat Club meetings like they should.
		And that way we can all sit around and help each other out to talk some of this stuff out.
		It would be much better to be able to, I can't talk to my family.
		I say, you know, gee, these aliens came and they created us or whatever, you know.
		And my family just thinks that I'm crazy.
		And I can't even talk to friends.
		I sound so stupid when I try to discuss any of these topics.
		And I sound like an idiot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They probably say something to you like, dear, you've been spending too many hours on the road.
unidentified		I know.
		It's just like that.
		And they don't want to listen.
		And I think, well, listen, there's this really valid point here.
		I start trying to talk something about mitochondrial DNA and they look at me like I'm just sick.
		So I just think it would be nicer if a lot more of the people that listen to your show would come to the chat clubs wherever they're at and give people like me who are not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what you're really saying is that people who listen to my program need support groups.
unidentified		Right.
		Unfortunately, I think we do.
		It's something.
		There's so many amazing things out there and so many people have such closed minds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
unidentified		And it's some beautiful things going on and some scary things going on.
		And the second thing I wanted to address was Y2K.
		I went in my bank today and I'm just all happy because I'm getting all ready for it and I'm looking at some property and I'm considering all my storage.
		Anyway, I'm pretty much preparing myself.
		And I was in my bank going, oh yeah, and excuse me if I don't put any more money in the bank, ha ha.
		And I was actually talking to the bank manager at the time and I'd known her for a couple years because I've banked there and she just looked at me like I was sick and she says, oh, I can't believe people are still going.
		We were Y2K compliant back in December and we're just testing now.
		And I'm saying, you know, I'm not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
		We were compliant back in December.
		Now that implies that the end of testing has come and the verdict is absolute compliance.
		Now, so what do you mean we were compliant then and we're testing now?
unidentified		Yeah, she was saying, well, we were done with the Y2K readiness, whatever they were doing, on December this date, and all of the banks had to be that way, and all the banks are ready now, and we're all in the testing stage now.
unidentified		I said, well, you know, I think that this is not right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's not right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If she was compliant, then she wouldn't need to be doing testing, would she?
unidentified		No, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If they were sure of compliance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And so then she said, well, I'll give you this Y2K pamphlet.
		And so she gave me a pamphlet on how to prepare your business for Y2K.
		And it had nothing at all to do with this bank's preparedness.
		And it's a major, major bank.
		And evidently she didn't have anything to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Store.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She didn't have anything to give me.
unidentified		No, no, it said about your business.
		You might need to buy the newest version of your Windows or whatever.
		That sort of thing.
		And really downplaying it.
		But just the way she looked at me, I feel like I've come so many steps in Y2K preparedness.
		But just one or two sentences from her and the way that she said it, oh, I can't believe people are still spouting that.
		We're completely ready.
		We're just testing it out now.
		it's all done and boy Oh, one big step back.
		And I was like, oh, really?
		You're done?
		Gee, well, why am I selling my business and moving into the woods?
		And so I think that's another reason we need more support.
		And we need to get together with people who know about this stuff.
		And I don't know anybody else who's preparing even.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a very active thank you chat group, of course, in Seattle, as I'm sure you're aware.
		I don't know.
		Look, nothing may happen.
		You've got to include that in your range of possibilities, that nothing will happen.
		That Y2K will be, for those who said it was going to be serious, a bust.
unidentified		But that'd be a good thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That'd be a good thing.
		That's my attitude about it anyway.
		It'll be a great thing if it's all a bust.
		And are people prepared?
		Well, so what?
		Then they're prepared.
		And so if something happens, which inevitably it does, we're reading it in the news every day about people without power, people in floods, people in all kinds of trouble.
		They're ready.
		Or worst case, they eat their investment or whatever.
		Maybe nothing will happen.
		And that would be the best of the extremes, wouldn't it?
		I don't know if I believe that, but it would be.
		Wow, Cardline, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
		You're on the air.
		This is it.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		This is Jenny, and I'm calling from Rochester, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jenny.
unidentified		And I actually had a comment to make about reincarnation.
		Okay.
		Am I actually speaking to...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you were to guess, what would you think?
unidentified		Okay, I'm going to guess, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ta-da!
unidentified		Okay, sorry about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lady, the brass ring.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Your voice just sounds so different on the telephone than it does on my radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I've really got to do something about that.
		I've got to figure out a way to make my voice sound on the phone the way it does on the radio so people will believe me.
		That's a worthy project.
unidentified		Okay, well, I think what it is is that out here in the country, and I've got one of the CC radios, by the way, from your recommendation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it cool or what?
unidentified		It's very cool, except that I pick you up on about three different stations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And each one, depending on how the weather is outside, is a little bit scratchy.
unidentified		Sometimes you come in clear as a bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But other than that, that's the nature of nighttime radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what the CC radio lets you do is hear so many more of them so much better than you would hear them otherwise.
unidentified		Absolutely, absolutely.
unidentified		I was listening to you on a station in Reno earlier of all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		KOH, 780 KOH.
unidentified		Right, right.
		In fact, I think that's what I was just listening to.
		But the comment that I wanted to make about reincarnation, I've been working with death transformation for a number of years, assisting spirits on, if you will.
		But back to the lady that called earlier about her grandchild, when my daughter, who is now 25, when she was three years old, one day she suddenly looked at me and said, gee, mommy, I remember when I used to be a big blonde woman and I liked to drink beer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding.
unidentified		No, and I looked at her and I said, really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This was a three-year-old.
unidentified		At three.
unidentified		At three.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A three-year-old.
unidentified		Three-year-old.
		Right?
		So I looked at her, and I've always been a very curious person.
		And I said, really?
		And you like to drink beer?
		And she said, yes.
		And she said, and my husband didn't care for it very much because sometimes I would get up on the tables and dance.
		And I said, you get up on the tables and dance?
		You've got to be kidding me.
		And she said, yeah.
		She said, we had a pub.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me, we had a what?
unidentified		We had a pub.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A pub?
unidentified		She didn't call it a bar.
unidentified		She didn't call it a tavern.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		She called it a pub.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you must have been completely freaked out.
unidentified		Well, I just looked at her and I said, you are truly my 40-year-old midget.
unidentified		And she looked at me and she just laughed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Her name wasn't Brandy, was it?
unidentified		No, it's no, Beverly.
unidentified		Beverly is her name.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it's with a B. It's with a B. Synchronicity, it's unbelievable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, can you stay right there?
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on, hold on, hold on.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring the replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 10th, 1999.
		At the top of the talk about their homes.
		There's a girl in this hotel town.
		She was in whiskey down.
		she serves them whiskey and wine Brandy, where's the braided chain?
		Music
		Music
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from March 10th, 1999.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe reincarnation is kind of like a chain that can't be broken.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, top of the morning to you, I've got a young lady on hold, and here she is.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello again.
unidentified		Jenny again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay, I do believe that reincarnation is a chain.
unidentified		I don't know that I fully agree with your guest tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if I do either.
unidentified		I think he had a lot of viable things to say, but there were some things that he left kind of unexplained.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the one thing he did say that blew me away was the explanation of the tape loop ghost.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No one's ever given me that before.
unidentified		Okay, now that I can buy.
		But there were some other things that he didn't fully cover for me.
		Number one, what about all of the people that see their deceased loved ones or friends that actually appear to them or talk to them?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's never happened to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has it to you?
unidentified		I have actually seen, I saw things when I was a child, and I have actually seen discarnate spirits, entities, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really interesting.
unidentified		But not personally anyone that you recognize.
		Well, I take that back.
		I did see my brother.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's really interesting.
		Thank you.
		I saw...
		I felt the presence of my cat.
		I've loved cats all my life, and I had a cat named Yezu who died in my arms.
		It was so sad.
		Anyway, I have felt the presence of Yezu, but, you know, I have to imagine the possibility that Yezu was an artifact or is an artifact of my mind,
		that Yesu indeed lives On, in the sense that he lives on in my mind, in my memory, and that I'm projecting that fact and wanting to keep Yesu alive in that manner, consciously or subconsciously, probably.
		So you can't rule that out.
		Well, here I am, surprised again, or not so surprised.
		A doctor, a friend of mine, writes Discovery Channel Art, or one of the Time Life Channels, did a special, cocaine mummies.
		Fascinating.
		So it's true.
		They've tested and found cocaine in mummies.
		Now, maybe when you die, your body no longer processes the cocaine, so it remains to be tested.
		Because that could certainly be.
		A little nose crust or something.
		Who knows?
		I don't know how they would do that testing, but my God.
		Cocaine in mummies.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		All right, Bill, I talked to you about your website.
unidentified		I checked in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what about it?
unidentified		Well, like Dina's ghost photos?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Well, I've got many.
		Which ones?
unidentified		I think her name is Dina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Dinah, yes.
unidentified		Dinah.
		yes and a quick and a little or circle or something uh...
		I don't see the eyes and the teeth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're looking at the wrong thing.
unidentified		The photo?
unidentified		I was looking at the actual photo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you're looking at the wrong...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What you should be doing is looking up on the original 35 millimeter, look up toward the ceiling.
unidentified		Yeah, it's up in the corner.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then in the enlargement, I don't have a real hard time seeing features that look an awful lot like eyes.
unidentified		Yeah, I found most stuff on your website interesting.
unidentified		It's just like some of the chupacabra things look like dog carcasses that have been dried up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Might be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Only thing about them, though, teeth aren't right.
unidentified		Well, it could be a canine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but see, they don't look right for canine teeth.
		They look too big, and in a lot of cases, the specific teeth that are sticking out look closer to something in alien.
		Remember with Sigourney Weaver?
		Almost like that.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, this is Kiki in Kissimmee, Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, where in Florida?
unidentified		Kissimmee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kissimmee?
unidentified		It's right outside of Disney.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know where you are there.
unidentified		Where the Mickey Mouse is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
unidentified		I just wanted to tell you that you have given me a lot of nightless sleeping nights.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know if that's good or bad.
unidentified		That's wonderful.
unidentified		You are so informative, and I can't thank you enough for all of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You remember when I was talking a little while ago to somebody and I said, be a man, tell her to leave the room.
		You're going to listen to our buddy.
		Remember that?
		I got a fax here.
		It says, shame on you, Artie, because you're stealing husbands from their wives at night.
		Poor, lonely wives laying all alone in tears because you broadcast.
		She goes on, well, it's okay.
		The wives can still be abducted by aliens and get their business done that way.
unidentified		Not this wife, boy, I want to stay here.
		I'll tell you what.
		I was in show business all my life, and I traveled all my life.
		My mother, father, and I together.
		And I'll make this quick.
		One night I was on my own after my father passed away and my mother, and I was doing an act by myself, and I traveled all night driving like the son of a gun to get to the next state.
		And I got in this hotel room and lie in bed, and the next door they were having a party, and I was having such a time sleeping.
		So I thought, oh, gosh, I've got to get to sleep.
		I've got to get to sleep.
		Finally, I dozed off, and then this bright light came in my face.
		Bright, bright light.
		And I got up and looked, and it was Christ standing there with my father standing behind him, waving at me to come with him.
		And I sat up in bed, and I thought, oh, my God, this can't be true.
		And so I got out of bed, washed my face real good, got back in bed, and looked, and he was still there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds like meet Joe Black to me.
unidentified		I'll tell you, it was scary, but I know one thing, that ever since that time, I have never had a problem going to sleep.
unidentified		Ever since, except for Art Bell, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's quite a story.
		Thank you.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		This is Barry from Windsor, California, listening to the KSRO over here.
		Yes, sir.
		How are you doing tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm fine.
unidentified		Prayers are with Richard Hogan.
unidentified		I had the pleasure of talking to him on your show one night, and I sure hope he gets better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Something about Egypt and Atlantis.
unidentified		You know, all the mummies, or most of them, have tested positive for cocaine and tobacco?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You lie.
unidentified		No, it's a fact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, tobacco, I could understand, but no, no, no, wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you possibly test a mummy for cocaine?
unidentified		They drug tested the mummies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I know, but I mean, even in a living human body, there would not be cocaine detectable after about, I'm told, about 30 days.
		So how in...
		How in the name of Osiris would you get a positive test after thousands of years?
unidentified		Well, I'm not a chemist.
		I couldn't tell you that.
		But it was, I can't remember which source I heard it from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe that's why they had to tape up their nose like that.
unidentified		Could be.
		But the fact that they had two things, tobacco and cocaine, which are native to the American continents, correct?
		And it was tested, I guess enough monkeys were tested to where it was over a large span of time.
		That would be proof of trade with somebody who had access to Americas.
		Kind of like proof of Atlantis almost.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or at least Columbia.
unidentified		Yeah, exactly.
		You're doing some pretty good business.
		You don't know how far back that goes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Apparently not.
		Thank you.
		Mummies testing positive for cocaine, huh?
		Well, like I say, maybe that's why they tape the nose that way.
		Well, folks, guess what?
		Another machine that I own is dying.
		Its life support system beginning to flicker.
		My television is dying.
		It hasn't died yet quite, but I know the signs.
		You begin to get these red scan lines, you know, these little red scan lines across the screen.
		And people who have a pinkish tint to their skin suddenly get kind of greenish, then it goes back to pinkish.
		The tube is dying.
		Sad.
		This one has lasted about seven years, so I am going to splurge.
		I don't splurge very often, but I am going to splurge, and I am going to buy a brand new Sony.
		I'm going to get the new Sony HD TV.
		It's long, you know, like letterbox.
		I'm such a movie fan.
		I really am such a movie fan that I ordered the Sony HD TV yesterday.
		As I looked at my TV and its death throes, its twitching death throes, I ordered, I'm going to have to wait a couple of months for this thing.
		You can't even get them right now.
		So I'm praying my TV will not go belly up completely for a couple of months.
		I've been saying to myself, I've got to have, I've got to have HTV, HD TV.
		I've just got to have it.
		Even though it's not exactly out there yet, I can't hold back any longer.
		So I'm dying to see it.
		It's the only one they have, the Sony, and it's a long TV, you know, long.
		They're not even really broadcasting much HD TV yet, but I couldn't stop myself.
		No point in getting an old one now.
		A new old one, if you will.
		International line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		I'm just phoning to tell you how they tested those mummies.
		The hair.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The hair?
unidentified		They tested the hair.
unidentified		The hair can...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The hair.
		The hair.
		Of course the hair.
unidentified		Hair holds chemicals and whatever long past your death, just like fingernails and toenails do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wonder if they were able to determine that cocaine was in use at the time of death, or near, very near the time of death.
unidentified		Well, I watched this special, and I think it was also in National Geographic, too.
		And apparently this wasn't smoked or snorted.
		It was chewed and ingested.
		That was how it stayed in the system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then ceremonial, perhaps.
		Perhaps.
		That would make sense.
unidentified		Yeah.
		So, just for your information.
		And by the way, Eric, I prayed for Richard last night, and I sure hope that he gets better.
		He's one of my heroes.
		The man has so much courage and so much integrity.
		I sure hope that he pulls through this because God knows who else will carry on his work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're right about that.
		Courage and integrity.
		Richard has a very great deal of both.
		He's kind of childlike.
		Richard will never grow up.
		I probably won't either.
		What does it mean to grow up anyway?
		You know, get serious and forget about your dreams and forget about the quest and the search and the thrill of the search.
		If it means giving up all that, then who wants to grow up anyway?
		But there are a lot of people who just, you know, sort of don't all the way grow up, and that's Richard.
		But ethical and moral and very honest, all of those traits are Richard.
		To the point where he sacrifices himself, and the Miami Circle business is a really good example of that.
		He worked himself to death on that thing.
		And talk about vindication.
		The Miami Circle has just been carbon dated to be a minimum of 2,000 years old, and they think older.
unidentified		Now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And as I pointed out to you yesterday, now the state legislature in Florida has voted $15 million.
		So the circle is indeed safe.
		But do you know how close that was?
		It was that close.
		It was that close.
		And we would never have known.
		Unless we had purchased, at great expense, time to do the testing we would never have known.
		And we would have put the bulldozers to something that at a bare minimum was here when Christ walked on the earth.
		In our country.
		Not in Israel.
		Or Egypt, where you might expect to see things of this age, but our country where you don't.
		That close.
		We were that close.
		We never would have known.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Don calling from Chandler, Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yes, I have a suggestion for some bumper music for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Sticks, Grand Illusion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That'll be good.
unidentified		Okay, and another thing I wanted to say, I'm 39, and I wanted to say, God help my generation and the ones after me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, but every generation says that.
unidentified		Yeah, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought that.
		it's like you say you're thirty nine i am certain of my dad It's true this time.
		You're becoming your dad.
unidentified		But it's true this time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you listen to today's non-music noise, what do you say to yourself?
		You say, oh, my God, what a bunch of crap.
		Who could listen to this?
		There's no melody.
unidentified		Most of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's no song.
		There's nothing.
		It's just a thumping, stupid beat that doesn't make any sense at all, right?
unidentified		And you can't even hear the lyrics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but you know what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My dad used to say that about Paul Anca.
unidentified		Yeah, mine did too.
unidentified		Okay, take care of yourself, Art, and God bless.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, see you later.
		Early Paul Anca and Elvis Presley and all that stuff.
		That's what my dad said.
		My God, you call that music?
		You know, so we are our father's old mobile mostly.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Dan calling from Tucson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I just had a quick observation and then a quick question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, observe.
unidentified		Well, you know, now we've got this information about the Egyptians and the cocaine, I guess that solves how the pyramids were built.
unidentified		You know, if you have a thousand people hopped up in cocaine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'd get right on that rock.
unidentified		But I sent you an email that I didn't know about father Malachi Martin.
unidentified		You said he had a heart attack or was having a problem?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He had a stroke, sir.
		And he lost some use of his right side.
		He's recovering.
		They are, the last I've heard, he's continuing to recover.
		His website is down.
		Don't let that worry you.
		He continues to recover, and they're watching him like a hawk.
		They won't let anybody near him, and they sure as hell won't let anybody interview him.
		And I understand that.
		So he's recovering, and with the help of God, we'll have him on the air again.
unidentified		Okay, because I was wanting to ask when I was in the Air Force, I was stationed over in England, and I believe it was in 1990, it was October 31st, Halloween night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And they interviewed this Catholic priest who said he was a vampire hunter.
unidentified		And for like two hours, they talked with this guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I would like to talk to that fellow.
		I think I've got something in a pile of paperwork on him, but it only vaguely comes to mind.
		So I think I've got something.
		I would really like to interview that fellow myself.
		The Catholic Church is sort of in denial about what he's saying.
		They've actually come back and said that, but he claims to be a vampire hunter.
		That's right.
unidentified		Yeah, so I thought I didn't know if Father Malachi knew of him or what the situation was.
		But I just thought I'd pass that along.
		And also, I was going to ask for potential guests someday.
		How about Stan Lee?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I don't know Stan Lee, so you'll have to send me something on him.
unidentified		Well, he's the producer of Marvel Comics, created like Spider-Man and just about all the comic book characters, you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that'll be fun.
		All right.
		All right, thank you very much.
		The only thing I wonder is, a vampire hunter, let's think about that a little bit, a vampire hunter.
		If a priest found what he considered to be a vampire and did the traditional stake-through-the-heart business, and the cops came, and the priest is there, and he's telling them why he drove a stake-through this guy's heart, in this modern day and age, there would be a problem, wouldn't there?
		There'd be a trial.
		Anyway, he sounds like he'd be an interesting interview.
		That's it for tonight.
		Klock says we gotta go.
		Clock never lies.
		People tell lies, not clocks.
		That's it.
		From the high desert, I'm Mark Bell.

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