Joseph McMoneagle, the first remote viewer for Project Stargate, reveals 21 years of classified Cold War work—success rates varied by task (35–40% for location-based, lower for descriptive). He dismisses "psychic" claims, insisting remote viewing is a learned skill via techniques like CRV, developed by Scientologist Ingo Swan. Blind sessions, including one on Jesus at the Monroe Institute, uncovered supernatural parallels, though he warns futuristic predictions face interpretation challenges. McMoneagle cautions against mass psychic influence, citing risks like destabilization or unintended harm, even as Art Bell shares anecdotes of weather manipulation and Y2K warnings. Ultimately, his work suggests humanity’s latent psychic abilities could reshape history—but only if wielded responsibly, not weaponized. [Automatically generated summary]
I'm Mark Bell, and we have Peter Davenport from the UFO Reporting Center on in the first hour.
And there are sightings of fireballs and objects going on right now and for the last two hours all over the continental U.S. It is remarkable.
Switchboards are jamming all over the place.
I wonder what's going on.
Boy, do I wonder.
Anyway, in a moment, you're in for a real treat.
Joe McGonacle is going to be my guest.
And let me tell you what he told himself, myself.
He told me about him.
I am one of only two remote viewers from the project who was in both the Mead unit as well as the research side of the house at SRI slash SAIC.
The other man who is currently unknown to the public has about four years on the research side.
He is also an exceptional remote viewer.
Within our lab, there are at least six of what I would call world-class viewers.
In fact, I was the first viewer, number 001, recruited for Stargate and spent a little over seven years at Mead.
When I retired from the military, I spent the rest of my 21 years in the project working at the Cognitive Sciences Lab while it was located at SRI and SAIC.
I am still a full-time research associate with that same lab, which is now located with the Laboratories for Fundamental Research of Palo Alto.
There is a website for that.
We've got it up there now.
By the way, we've also got Joe's personal website up, and nobody's ever seen that before because it's just now born.
So if you want to read more about Joe, that's the place.
We've got the link.
Just go to my website, www.artbell.com, and click on the appropriate link, and we'll test Joe's site and see how much traffic he can take.
In the past, says Joe, I've been challenged numerous times to do a live, real-time remote viewing on camera.
I've successfully demonstrated this ability on double-blind targets for ABCs, put to the test, reader's digest, mysteries of the mind, and the paranormal world of Paul McKenna in London.
I've also been filmed live at the J.B. Rine Research Center in Durham while under the strictest of controls.
All but one was a first-place match, the exception being a target done at the J.B. Rine Center, which was a second-place match.
We'll find out what that means.
Contrary to common belief, I'm very well trained and well-versed in what is now commonly referred to as controlled remote viewing, CRV, or what originally began as Mr. Ingo Swan's training methodology.
Ingo Swan is considered the father of remote viewing.
I'm also, he says, well trained in at least four other techniques developed and experimented with at SRI, S-A-I-C.
I was trained as a dowser while at SRI.
Have participated in a number of psychokinesis or PK experiments.
I'm intensely interested in those.
While some choose to say that I am just a natural psychic, I have never considered myself in that way.
While I probably possess some degree of natural talent, since the beginning of the project, I have learned remote viewing is just like everyone else has.
I've learned about it the hard way through trial and error and a hell of a lot of hard work over many years.
From the latter part of 1982 until September 1st, 84, I was the only remote viewer doing the remote viewing at Fort Meade because everybody else was in training.
It is one of the reasons I received the Legion of Merit for remote viewing.
I had direct contact with and did remote viewing for 16 major agencies, the alphabet agencies of the U.S. government, from 78 through 95.
Much of that remote viewing was successful.
Some of it was not.
99.9% of it is still classified and has not been released.
Wow, 99.9% of what was done is still classified.
He's got a new book.
It's called The Ultimate Time Machine.
And that should certainly serve to whet your appetite for what's about to come.
Joe McDonagle should not need an introduction to anybody who knows anything about remote viewing.
For those who don't, we'll do a brief 101 and then we'll get down to biz.
Here we go all the way back east to Joe McDonagle.
Joe, welcome to the program.
Laura, how are you doing?
I'm just fine and I'm sure glad to have you back on.
We did, of course, sort of a multiple thing one time, but having you back by yourself is a very, very good idea.
In terms of locational ability or locating missing items, it probably doesn't do as well as it does for other things where you're describing something.
In the search for missing items, the difficulty comes in in that you can have a near-perfect description of the location, but then you have to put it somewhere on the face of the planet.
The information that's generally provided isn't as detailed as one would like it to be in terms of defining a location.
Well, when they did the 30-minute night line and it was announced to the world that our government for 20 years had been doing this project and was giving up on it, they said they were giving up on it because it didn't work.
What they actually said at the time was not, it didn't have the kind of dependability that they needed or required to do the kind of intelligence work that they wanted to do.
There's a lot of myth that's grown out of the amount of accuracy and whatnot around remote viewing.
I think what's incredibly important to say here is that the kinds of jobs that we did with remote viewing were very much like the alternative healer kind of thing, where someone is declared essentially terminal by modern medical science and they show up at the alternative healer's place and place of business.
And the alternative healer can only claim 35 or 45.
40% success rate, which is essentially 35 or 40 percent miracles.
Exactly right and they're usually able to develop new leads in some cases and in some cases missing information is provided that lead them directly to the appropriate suspect or the solving of the crime.
What I base my judgment about remote viewing on is how solid the science is that supports it.
There's been now 25 years of research that's been done in remote viewing, and most of that research has been replicated in many different labs as well as different universities.
And statistically, it's carried across from lab to lab, regardless of who's doing the research or how the research is being done.
I think the people that balk at that idea are the ones who immediately raise the question of, well, you can't tell us how the information gets from one place to the other.
So obviously this isn't very good science, which is, of course, bunk.
There's a lot of things in science that we don't know how it happens, but we do know it happens.
And the primary reason for that, Art, is they just either have something in their belief structure that prevents them from acknowledging it, or there's something to their ability that they just don't pay any attention to.
Well, actually, the initial selection process involved probably evaluating something like 2,000 people.
And some of the requirements that they were trying to fill had to do with whether or not the people they interviewed were open to this particular subject, as well as to whether or not they were skeptical, you know, had a healthy Skepticism towards it.
They didn't want somebody who was a total believer, and they didn't want someone who was not critical in their thinking.
The primary reason has to do with the fact that there was a paper that was printed by Dr. Kenneth Kress in the CIA.
It was originally classified secret.
You can now find it somewhere on the internet.
But back in the 70s, it was a paper written about remote viewing as being studied at SRI at the time using Ingo Swan and a psychic by the name of Pat Price.
And in this paper, he proposed that it would probably of value from an intelligence collection standpoint.
Well, the Army saw that and had also done some studies of the survival rate of certain kinds of soldiers that were at great hazard during warfare.
And they decided that one of the commonalities between these kinds of soldiers and ones who don't survive is that they're probably very psychic people.
So they put the two together and decided that this might be worth something.
The suggestion there is that somebody is able to mentally, somehow, even subconsciously, discern where a particular danger is, psychically, I guess you could say, and avoid that danger and that bullet doesn't hit them.
Yeah, in effect, they essentially zig instead of zag at the right time.
It's probably because psychic functioning in general is probably taking place somewhere in the primitive brain and not in the more modern areas of the brain.
Most people I've talked to have thought that the psychic ability occurred in the frontal lobe portion of the brain, not in the more basic parts of the brain.
Well, actually, the processing may be taking place in the frontal lobe, but the actual delivery of the information is probably taking place in the primitive part of the brain.
There's been a lot that I've seen in print and have read, and there's a lot of conjecture about these sort of light phenomena occurring around or in areas just prior to a major geologic event.
And I'm just kind of interested in seeing now, with all this going on, whether or not we have a major earthquake somewhere in the continental United States, or whether or not we have some geologic event that equates to this sightings.
You have written a book called The Ultimate Time Machine.
Time is something that really has been on my mind a lot lately, the nature of time.
And most remote viewers that I've talked to have suggested that moving through time, in effect, is possible with remote viewing, to the past or to the future, and obviously the present, which the Army would be mostly interested in, I'm sure.
History, in my opinion, and I say this quite extensively in the book, history is pertinent to where you're standing in your sort of geopolitic and theologic view of the world within that timeframe.
We are constantly rewriting history to fit our needs of the time.
One of the problems that I deal with is I, of course, have certain beliefs and constructs, and even though I may be blind to the particular target of interest, if I understand it's centering around a theological belief, certainly my likes and dislikes come into play.
So I have to be very careful about how that might interfere with my conjecture.
Well, it was kind of an interesting session in that there was a lot of interesting details about why there's a great deal of similarity between the man Jesus and some of the other prophets that have existed over the course of history.
So this really then, this came out of the session, and in other words, I'm saying the session determined there was a creation force, there is a creator, and this was a man, a supernatural man, associated with that creator.
So you have to read the transcript with a little salt because I obviously have some personal feelings about it, which I can't help but mix in with the reporting, I'm sure.
What Bob would do is he would take whatever statements I would make and ask questions based on them.
But in actuality, he knew what he was asking questions about, so the way he asked questions could very well have tainted the features of the results.
This is a great danger that occurs also in remote viewing.
It's very, very difficult to guard against, which is one of the reasons why anybody in the room with a remote viewer or anybody interacting with a remote viewer should be as blind to the target as a remote viewer is.
Stanford, actually at SRI International, it's not called Stanford Research Institute any longer, but SRI International at Science Applications International Corporation.
Didn't you ever wonder when you were given an assignment of this kind whether you were setting somebody up to be assassinated or hit or who the hell knows why?
Well, one of the unique things about remote viewing is that if you're on to that degree art, you're going to know whether or not you're being set up.
In fact, over 21 years, I've had at least seven or eight occasions when people have given me targets that were set up targets or where no target actually existed.
The most difficult target I ever worked was I was given the picture, I was given a black and white photograph of a room, and they essentially said there's something in this room that we're very interested in and describe it.
And I kept getting sort of a picture of a Y, you know, three lines intersecting in the shape of a Y. I worked on that for probably two days and finally realized that it was the inside and outside corner or perception of the corner of the inside and outside of an empty box.
Well, it's almost as good as doing an actual target where it's impossible to know what the target is, and you produce detail on it, and it defies probability.
If remote viewing in any area had a 30 or 40% success rate, I personally, and I know we're going to go around on this, but I don't for one second think the government has actually stopped doing it.
Now, most remote viewers that I've talked to right across the board have uniformly insisted the program is over.
A lot of the controls that existed in the Cold War don't exist any longer.
As far as the Russians doing remote viewing research and continuing with it, they, like many other countries overseas, it's sort of psychic functioning is sort of part of their culture.
They not only believe that it's real, but everybody from Aunt Millie through grandma, whatever, have visions and it's part of their natural culture.
The kind of political pressure they put up with over there is to produce probably consistency in the results or to produce high enough level results that it can be used effectively or pragmatically in some way.
The cognitive sciences lab has some connection with some of those researchers, some of the prime researchers in the remote viewing arena.
And some of their remote viewers material has been seen, and it appears to have at least the same quality as some of the viewing that was done by some of the American remote viewers.
A lot of what I would say would probably have to be called conjecture based on remote viewing.
But in my own sense of things, I would say that the Russian people have passed the point of no return in terms of their condition and where they're going and changes and whatnot.
I think that what we're looking at in their disarray is we're seeing what naturally takes many, many years to change.
I mean, they're going from a totalitarian, rather ignorant, and oppressive government to one of, you know, election by free vote and more of a capitalistic kind of economy.
So I suspect they're going to go through a lot of turmoil, and we're going to go through it with them.
And I think it's a good idea that we do, because we're the ones that can guarantee that they stay on that road.
It'll probably be a tactical nuclear weapon, small yield, perhaps a quarter of a megaton.
It'll probably be targeted against a specific city.
I think, however, that when we're sort of sitting and thinking about, my God, would this be one of our cities, one of the things we have to take into consideration is the very distinct possibility that it could be actually used by someone else on a third world nation.
The situation has reached a point of criticality where within the third world there are probably three or four major factions that are vying for power.
And a nuclear, a tactical nuclear weapon detonated on the borders of, say, Afghanistan and Iran would be tantamount to starting the Third World War within the Third World.
And I'm more afraid of that happening than I am having tactical nuke show up in the continental United States.
Yeah, well, as I listen to you, I'm trying to delineate between what you are conjecturing based on current events and what you may know based on what you have remote viewed.
Or can we nail that down?
In other words, you have seen through remote viewing the use of a nuclear device, or am I stepping into ground here that you can't comment on?
One of the things I do know about remote viewing is that while we have a lot of superior technology for locating nuclear weapons-grade material, once a terrorist organization gets an 8- to 15-hour head start with it, it opens up the possibility of having to search huge areas with that technology.
Remote viewing can almost guarantee an 80% reduction in that search area.
That, yes, I always have a channel I can get the information to people that I think may be concerned or could use it and I would do that if I felt that uh that I was right.
Um one of the problems is whether or not someone would take action based on it and I would never expect anyone to take any any kind of action based purely on remote viewing.
Uh what I would expect is that they might take the remote viewing information and use it as a targeting mechanism for other techniques or other methodologies to Well, let's put it this way.
As I said, I am intently, intently interested in the nature of time, and I would like to talk to you about that, and you're a perfect guy to talk to because you wrote a book called The Ultimate Time Machine, which of course is remote viewing, correct?
Our number one, Peter Davenport, at the UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, and I'm getting absolutely blitzed with calls.
We're getting sightings all over the continental United States in some specific areas.
Here's just one of many.
Please stop faxing me.
Stop faxing me.
I know it's going on everywhere.
Dear Art, tonight at about 9 o'clock p.m. in Eugene, Oregon, while walking home, we saw, this is Adam, Joe, Mike, and Abram together, a brilliant greenish shade of light streak through the sky, traveling as fast as a shooting star.
It was immensely larger than any shooting star we've ever encountered.
We appreciate your time.
Like to give your West of the Rockies phone number out more often?
Well, I'll try.
We're going to get a very quick update from Peter Davenport in Seattle.
No, it's hard to say because we don't know how far away it was yet.
That underscores the value of our getting written reports with maps.
If people will send us an official roadmap, photocopy of a roadmap, on which they indicate, one, where they were standing at the time of their sighting, number two, a straight line pointing in the direction they estimate they were looking, when we get those maps, we can then estimate where the object was.
Our telephone number in Seattle is Area Code 206-722-3000.
Although we're about to shut down for the night, I've been working all day and all night, and I'm going to take a break.
The best way for people to send us a brief one-paragraph description of what they saw is on the internet, and my email address is simply director at ufocenter.com, or they can send a report over our standardized report on our website, and that's www.ufocenter.com.
That's Peter Davenport at the UFO Reporting Center in Seattle.
And as I say, it's a hot night.
There's a lot going on out there.
So, if you're so inclined, keep your eyes peeled.
All right.
Listen, we're about to go back to Joe McGonneville.
Very quickly, though, an announcement.
It is my understanding, and it is my great pleasure to announce that KABC in Los Angeles, beginning tomorrow night, is going to carry the program in its entirety, beginning at 10 o'clock at night.
I could be wrong about that, but I don't think that I am.
Again, it's my understanding that KABC in Los Angeles has made the decision to begin carrying the program at its inception at 10 p.m. Pacific time, starting tomorrow night.
I know that affects a lot of people in Los Angeles.
Back now to Joe McGonagall.
Joe is the nation's first military remote viewer.
He still can't talk about most of what he did for the military.
In fact, 99.9% he can't talk about.
But we can talk generally about remote viewing.
And he wrote a book called The Ultimate Time Machine.
And Joe, it is your view that time, going into the future, for example, you could remote view an event and then, with free will, change that event.
One of the difficulties about remote viewing the future, or one of the glitches in remote viewing the future, can best be demonstrated by example.
Suppose, as an example, that we were living in the year 1850, and we actually remote viewed a pump laser in operation in Silicon Valley in 1975.
You could have a perfect, 100% correct remote viewing of that event, but you wouldn't understand it.
In other words, the conceptualization or the concepts that drive pump lasers don't exist yet.
So going out into the future, just a few years in some cases, depending on the target, can present us with unsoluble problems in terms of determining what it is we're seeing.
Having said that, when you remote view the future, if you see an event A as an example, and you record that, the fact that A doesn't happen just simply means that you were wrong.
In other words, you can have all the conjecture you'd like about whether or not our actions between that remote viewing and the event actually occurring somehow changed that event.
But that's all hypothetical.
In reality, we can only state what we experience, and that is we did not experience A, so it in fact was a bad remote viewing, or an incorrect remote viewing.
It's my understanding from having talked to other remote viewers that very large events are more easily viewed.
For example, if your target was a certain individual, if they were about to die in a car crash or be hit by an 18-wheeler, something very, very eventful and traumatic, if not fatal, that would stand out and be more easily remote viewed than lesser events.
Based purely on sort of an objective observation, one would naturally say that.
In all probability, from a scientific standpoint, what's probably occurring is even a little bit more complex.
Remote viewing targets that have a higher entropy than other targets generally produce more information and more accurate information.
What that means is that lower entropy targets, which are generally targets that don't have much happening within them, usually do not produce as much information or as much accurate information.
So it really doesn't have anything to do with the significance of the event, but it has more to do with its content from an entropy standpoint.
The reason I say that is because, as I said earlier, I think the past is purely a creation of the specific sort of geopolitical, theological scenario in which we happen to be living.
In other Words, what we believe today about the past is different from what we believed in 1890.
So, by remote viewing the past and making comments on it, we are adding information or belief structure to what is already known or believed to be known, and that has to modify the view in terms of how people think or feel about the past, depending on how much they believe in their remote viewing, of course.
It is if it's demonstrated within certain parameters.
Generally speaking, where you see or observe remote influencing is where the target individuals or the individuals involved as the target generally have agreed by inference to being influenced.
In other words, if you have someone that you bring into an experiment, you say you're going to remote influence them in some way, by virtue of the fact that they've agreed to participate in the experiment, they've given sort of an agreement or compliance to being influenced.
I think you'll see influence occur then.
But in cases where someone does not give that sort of tacit approval, I have never seen remote influencing actually taking place.
I'm going to really take you out on a limb now and explain to you something I've done and at least get your comments on it.
I'm really thoughtful on what I have done.
I decided to play a couple of years ago and to experiment, actually in 95 I began.
And I said, look, if there are really these UFOs and if they are from elsewhere, or whatever they are, let's try a mass concentration to merely have these craft show themselves over a large American city.
And I had millions of people going into deep concentration to get that done.
Two weeks later, the lights over Phoenix occurred.
Then we tried it a second time, and there were massive sightings within a couple of days over Las Vegas.
Then, more recently, in the last year, I have done three separate experiments to attempt to control the weather, each one of them successful.
One time in Florida to bring rains to put out fires.
Within hours, clouds formed with no forecast for them, and it rained like hell.
Another time in Texas, where they desperately needed rain, and we tried it, and by God, they got rain in the exact area we asked for.
And the third time, in Alberta, in a province of Canada, where they were having fires, and again, we produced rain.
At that point, I stopped, and I began to sort of scare myself, and I said to my audience, look, it would appear that something real is happening here, but I'm concerned about the consequences of experimenting in these areas.
For example, people urged me to try to have mass concentrations to deter a hurricane from hitting the coast.
Well, that scared me.
I imagined all kinds of terrible possibilities like somehow managing to hold a hurricane over water and away from land long enough to build from a category two to five and then having it slam into land.
In other words, it seems like what I was doing, and I wasn't doing it, it was the millions of people, I was just sort of an orchestra director here, was working.
And it sort of freaked me out.
And so I have not yet done another experiment, but I've been very thoughtful about it.
What do you think about millions of minds in intense concentration over events of that sort?
Well, first I need to say that there's a very real possibility that something's going on there, that you are having that kind of influence.
But then secondarily, I'd have to say that there's another response that's possible in that you're taking sort of the key role in orchestrating when millions of people, millions of minds will be concentrating on a specific thing.
You may in fact be psychically picking the precise time and moment in time space to observe the result.
There's a very good example of this in a remote influencing experiment that was done by the Russians that I could give as an example if you want to hear it.
you aware that the Russians contacted Malaysia and made an offer to create a cyclone and they would do it for free if the Malaysians gave their Right, I remember that.
They made, it was going on, being reported by the Associated Press of the Russians, actually said, we have, they said, the technology to create a cyclone.
So it may be that there are scientists that are very far along that track and that might have something to do with it.
It might also be that it would have been nice to have the opportunity to predict the cyclone for Malaysia and get paid a lot of money for being correct psychically.
So you don't then toss out the idea that millions of minds in concentration over events of this sort can produce events of this sort as one possibility, the other being that I have sort of psychically simply read something that's going to occur.
You know, I would give each equal weight simply because I don't know if either has ever been proven.
Both, of course, hold the same possibility.
One of the things that's very difficult about proving this sort of thing is that I'm absolutely convinced and have been for many years that our expectancy and outcome are what we intend to have happen very much has to do with what actually does occur.
What we can't determine is whether or not it occurs that way because we've influenced events in some way that cause it or whether or not we've just in some predetermined way have selected the appropriate place to observe the event.
Well, actually, as I said earlier, and I probably wasn't clear enough about it, it unfortunately was not under control condition because I was allowed access to this glass tube without someone in the room with me.
So that negates any kind of controls.
You know, I could have switched glass tubes or something.
But in reality, it was like a test tube, a glass test tube that had been melted shut on both ends.
And contained within it was a round, probably two centimeter thick surgical piece of steel about seven inches long.
And over a period of about eight months, I was able to put about, I don't know, about a three and a half centimeter bend in the center of it.
One of the difficulties when you start dealing with metals in PK is unless you're absolutely sure about the metal that's being targeted, it's difficult to say whether or not it would not have done that on its own in any event.
There could be some metallurgical defect within the metal itself when it's subjected to certain changes in temperature, as an example, it could have a reaction where it it seeks to uh change shape or go back to an original shape, particularly with metals that have been stamped or dye, die-created in machines.
I have a nickel alloy serving spoon that's rolled up into a tight little knot, and of course that was very difficult to do, but when we attempted to unroll it, it of course shattered.
So rolling it into a tight knot in the first place sort of defied the laws of nickel alloy.
The usual reaction is people go into sort of a stunned silence and then they go away, and by the next morning, they've convinced themselves that it was a freak accident, and by that afternoon, they never observed it.
It's either integrated into their reality or deny it altogether.
And most people have a tendency to deny that they've seen those things occur.
Well, actually, within the book, I drew a picture of what I think were the former inhabitants, and they are very humanoid-like, and they probably stood about 12 feet.
I have a personal conviction that the people who actually built the ruins, which I believe exist in the Sidonia region, probably existed a million years ago, and in some way might even be our ancestors.
In other words, there's a very real possibility that we're aliens to the planet we live on.
Actually, I don't think they were originally from Mars.
I think they came from another area.
And the ruins that now exist there were actually constructed in a rather hurriedly fashion to protect them against the sort of ravaging storms and things that covered the face of Mars back then.
You seem like a really careful, well-grounded person as I ask you various questions, offering other, more mundane possibilities for what otherwise seems to be a psychic event, and yet you seem pretty sure about this, about Sidonia, about the inhabitants.
Well, and of course, I'm saying that that's my personal conviction, which doesn't make it right.
I also say in Mind Trek where I give the actual descriptions and transcripts and whatnot taken from the session that is, for all intents and purposes, I'm creating science fiction.
Until someone actually goes and lands at Sidonia and walks in those ruins, it's an impossibility to say whether it's right or wrong.
Well, it's a little difficult to do without the manuscript in front of me, but we were talking earlier about these light phenomena perhaps being a preliminary for a geological occurrence.
I'm almost convinced that within our lifetime, we're going to see a major eruption occur somewhere on the North American continent.
And I'm sort of torn between two locations, one being the Mount Shasta area and the other being Mexico City.
And one of my predictions is that if it does occur in the Mexico City area, it will be quite devastating because of the intensity of the population in that area.
I suspect that the one that you and I will see will probably be in the Mount Shasta area and that sometime within the next hundred years, the one in Mexico City will occur.
I'm a lot more specific about the dates in the book, but I just can't recall them from Memory.
I please ask, Joe, if a specific item like a stock price can actually be viewed for future performance.
And obviously, if so, then why doesn't a group simply make a few choice picks and fund any amount of research you would like to do in that particular fashion?
You can use a form of remote viewing called associative remote viewing for binary questions like yes and no or constructive, destructive, that sort of thing.
And, of course, target a stock as to whether or not you should invest, not invest, or just leave it alone.
And I would say to the listener that I don't specifically ask them about their business, so I don't generally answer in response to whether or not I'm doing stocks.
And so, yeah, I guess I wouldn't assume that a viewer doesn't make money doing that sort of thing.
I in particular, I personally don't have a great deal of an interest in the stock market because I believe it's a form of gambling and that for everyone who makes $10 in the stock market, 10 people have lost a dollar essentially.
Well, there's a lot of people that are essentially giving up their homes and cars, playing the long shot on the self-invested stock market over the internet.
And they're habitated to it because they have a gambling condition.
And I think that that's unconscionable, personally.
Well, I think part of the problem right now, the major problem in Japan, goes back to their addiction with gambling.
In their stock market, it wasn't good enough to sell papers on commodities for the future.
They were selling paper on the paper and then papers on those papers so that they were essentially gambling three layers deep on commodities that fail.
Personally, I can only attest to the fact that I believe that both Pat Price and Ningo Swan and perhaps another one or two individuals within the SRI lab at the time were in fact Scientologists as well.
I do know that some of them declined to remain members because they didn't like it or didn't find any value to it.
I would also have to say that I've known Buddhists who are also remote viewers.
Well, in fact, you know, you could really stretch and say that there's some indication that perhaps some of the techniques in Scientology might have showed up in some of the thinking of some of those individuals.
But again, like I said, my thinking is heavily laden with my military background.
So we are what we assume or what we do.
So I don't see anything wrong with that.
In other words, I don't see any kind of conspiracy or anything behind the scenes or under the table.
If one mind can be said to have so much power to either perceive events or affect events, is it proper then to conclude that many minds organized together to affect an event have a greater effect?
I would say so, but again, I would have to caution against assuming that it's the sort of mental energy that's come together or the focus that's come together to cause that.
You have to also assume at the same time that a million people with thinking that something should be done are in fact going to be taking action and doing things within their life structure that will promulgate that.
In other words, we'll sort of bring energy to that.
So I'm not so sure if it's the mental energy or the actual unconscious actions that we take as a result of our convictions that might eventually bring that to fruition.
One of the difficulties in getting millions of minds together to focus on something is getting them to all agree essentially on an absolute intent that's common among all those minds.
Well, let me suggest another alternative to you, Art.
I can understand where that fear would come into play, but isn't it a worst case scenario to live your life in a world where sort of coordinated action can make changes and where we choose to ignore that possibility and just sort of go along for the ride?
Yeah, it's all part of the same intent, but inevitably, then, there are destructive weather things that have occurred in areas that we've concentrated on.
And believe me, we get email and we get letters saying, look what you did.
i'm ard bell and this is coast to coast am I see them blue for you.
unidentified
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world.
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I had the highest-ranking Soviet defector to ever come out of the Soviet Union on my show a week or so ago.
And then I had a lieutenant colonel on the other evening, and both of these gentlemen said that the Russians are, and for a long time have been, experimenting with, In fact, causing earthquakes.
I don't know a lot about that area, quite frankly.
I can understand where they might be saying that, but some of the reasons why they might be saying that, I'm not sure, would imply a weapon system of any kind.
By the way, folks, if you want to read more about Joe, and I'm just looking at one little part of his website right now, we've got it linked.
Under remote viewing, you will find the definition of remote viewing, history with Stargate, examples of remote viewing, frequently asked questions, research and development, remote viewing applications, books, journals, publications, related websites, publicity and media, remote viewing services.
Now, that's just one little section of your website.
Yeah, there's still some areas that are under construction, but the area on examples, there are some simulated intelligence examples there that are very good.
And of course, there's information on my books and my personal bio and business bio and that sort of thing.
Well, you know, if you're successful at doing something in defense of the nation, you certainly don't want anyone to know that you're having that degree of success.
If your successes in the past were dependent upon additional methodologies that were used, you don't want to show that connection.
One of the things I do want to say, I don't want to leave the listeners with the opinion that I was the only remote viewer.
I want to say that within the time period of the project, there were probably a little over two dozen viewers, and there were many viewers equally as good as I ever was or am.
Having said all that, I've got a very serious question for you.
I really, really love the subject of remote viewing, and I have therefore interviewed many remote viewers.
There is a terrible, terrible schism in what once was a very tight community.
There have been some real problems that have developed between people who were in that program since the ending, the official ending anyway, of that program.
Well, I think a lot of it is not really generated between the actual people involved.
I think it's generated by a lot of misconceptions by the media.
And a lot of what the media has put into print or said essentially has sensationalized some of the statements and taken them out of context that people might have said.
And as a result, there's a lot of things that are believed to be true that aren't.
As an example, there's a belief that at some point I made a statement that remote viewing, remote viewers, not everyone can be a remote viewer, not everyone is psychic.
And that is exactly 180 degrees out of kilt from what I actually said.
What I actually said was that there is evidence in the lab that every human being that's ever walked through our door displays some capacity of being psychic.
So that's happened with me quite frequently, and I know that it's happened with others.
And when you don't have direct contact with some of the people and you're not able to, you know, answer those questions directly, a lot gets assumed, and it's really unfortunate.
Well, the way I'd like to answer that is that absolutely if the protocols which actually lend the scientific truth or validity to remote viewing, if those are straight from, that absolutely does dilute whether or not it's remote viewing.
However, having said that, you have to understand that there are a whole lot of different methodologies that are being used that operate within that protocol.
And I read a section of it where they did experiments to affect weather changes.
And also they did experiments on sound frequency to see how it affected people and animals.
And also in the book, it said they also did experiments in time travel.
And the reason the Long Island location was closed down was due to an entity coming through during one of the time travel experiments that created havoc and they couldn't get rid of.
Well, one of the things I like to do, Art, is when I read something, I like to check it out.
And I read a number of things about the Montauk project, and what was implied is that many of the things that were used or developed in those projects still exist in terms of towers and buildings and tunnels and all that sort of thing.
So I actually personally went to Montauk and looked for those things, and none of them exist.
So I have a little trouble buying some of the other things that were said as a result.
I think it's quite possible that there have been experiments done with regard to sound and the effects of sound on people or animals.
There's some literature that supports that.
I believe also that there is probably a considerable amount of research in stuff that was done with regard to the earlier foundations of radar towards the end of the Second World War, mid-to-end of the Second World War out of Long-Tauk.
But beyond that, I haven't found much evidence for anything else.
You know, the Philadelphia experiment's a really interesting thing.
In reality, what they actually did is they did build some very large degausers in the dock areas there during the war because metal ships riding through the water build up electrostatic charges and make them very vulnerable to electromagnetic mines.
And so they would degause these ships.
And we now know that certain kinds of electromagnetic wavefronts hitting the temporal lobes of the brain create a sense of having an entity standing next to you or some very bizarre effects.
And I can conclude from that that probably a lot of the things that have been said about the Philadelphia experiment might be true in the minds of people who were degaused.
It's also quite possible that in attempts to build something that would essentially wipe out a radar system, they could conceivably have built a very large unshielded microwave tube on the deck of one of those ships and cooked a few people.
I mean, you know, nothing's beyond, you know, the possibility.
So I think out of that sort of collage of things, you could hypothesize a number of things, and some of that being what's been written about the Philadelphia experiment.
I personally have had a couple experiences where I had a sense that I was either visited by or in the presence of some form of entity.
The difficulty is determining what exactly that is.
I'm not one to jump to a conclusion that it's alien simply because it doesn't look like me.
I try to hold an open mind in that regard.
So I suggest that it might be alien, but it might also be time traveler.
It could also be a construct of my own mind in some way.
So I'm not exactly sure what it was or where it came from, but I do know that there was a reason, based on the information that was exchanged, there's a reason to believe that there's some validity to that entity.
And again, I go back to the 25 years of research that's been done in the lab.
There's quite a bit of evidence that in some cases you can display the ability to determine that something's been remote viewed at a specific time or place.
And that would include individuals.
But that happens very spontaneously.
The last person that you ever want to ask for any decision with regard to remote viewing is the remote viewer.
Even while they're in the act of remote viewing, they're generally incapable of making decisions that are going to be accurate.
Joe, with regard to a miniature conversation that you and Art had earlier regarding the effects of weather and the weather experiments that Art has just completed, it would seem to me that if you compare that to the surgical instrument, I mean, both would take a heck of a lot of physical or what would seem kind of sign-compliant or compliant to the electromagnetic field, an incredible amount of energy in order to accomplish either one of those.
But yet you said it was possible that, say like for the weather experiments, that people could subconsciously or physically affect the weather.
Well, I even suggested that it was equally possible that I had, in effect, psychically viewed something that would occur and therefore announced that particular experiment.
I'd like to go back to that Russian experiment and sort of give that as an explanation for what I mean.
The Russians did a very interesting experiment.
They took 24 mice and tattooed them with numbers 1 through 24.
And then they had a participant who was not going to be in their experiment select out which would be control mice and which 12 would be target mice.
And they alone knew that.
They kept the information and of course they took the mice and put them all in a cage together.
And then they had a psychic 3,000 kilometers away target them to try to raise the aggression level in the targeted mice.
At the end of six months they killed all the mice and analyzed the chemicals in their brain and were able to sort the 12 mice that were aggressive, that were preselected as aggressive, into one column that was accurate.
unidentified
So are you saying that that would be more of a telepathic or even psychokinetic influence?
Well their assumption was that it was psychokinetic, but in reality it may have been that the person who made the selection of the two groups at the very beginning, knowing what the outcome needed to be, made the appropriate selection of the two groups.
The new book, of course, which will probably be in bookstores the first week of December, The Ultimate Time Machine, is the new one.
Mind Trek, of course, is a good primer for remote viewing if people would really like to know something about how I integrated a lot of what I learned about remote viewing.
They put me in a private rest home in Munich and did brain studies to determine how much damage I had suffered as a result of the lack of oxygen to my brain.
There are people, Joe, I don't know if you're aware of it or not, who are doing experiments, in fact I'm waiting for the results now, with possibly a dangerous drug, which I'm not going to mention.
We call it drug X. But two people with doctorates who are using a specific drug to induce NDEs.
There was, in fact, one individual who was not working at the time, who had come by the office and was, in fact, drinking a cup of coffee and was, as a result of another job, under a great deal of stress.
And he did have a massocoronary and subsequently died.
But that was not in relationship in any way to any kind of a remote viewing.
You know, I think the proof's kind of in the pudding.
There is an inherent danger, and I think it comes from the person themselves.
If, as an example, you become involved in the paranormal or become involved in remote viewing and you cannot integrate what you're experiencing into your belief structure.
In other words, it runs counter your actual belief structure on how things work or your theologic background as an example, what you will actually do is create an illness in order not to participate.
I've actually seen that happen with people where they really did not want to alter their belief structure and as a result they made themselves sick.
Now, if you pay attention, you quit and go away and you get healthy again.
If you don't pay attention, the degree of sickness increases until you do.
That great person, Napente, I believe is what you might have been referring to.
That was just a comment.
And it seems perhaps that it's difficult to squeeze certain things into higher consciousness-provoking situations like psychedelics or remote viewing where it can't be used negatively because that's a condition of that dimension in which it works.
All the evidence points to the fact that whether you consider something good or evil has no effect whatsoever on the ability to remote view.
So conceivably someone who has a lot of intention or who is very destructive by nature can be as effective a remote viewer as someone who is not, who is more inclined to the positive or constructive.
I think what's important to understand is that remote viewing is a tool, just like eyesight or smell or taste or anything else, and that we all use our capabilities, our talents, or our tools in an either destructive or constructive way, and that's pretty much up to the individual.
In all paranormal research, in parapsychology, psychic phenomena, UFO research, etc., over the years I've known some pretty good scientists who've been interested in this work.
And they all find tremendous opposition, not because of the work, but even if they make a suggestion or set up plans to do research, there is tremendous opposition from their fellow scientists and from other people just to prevent the work from even being discussed or done.
Primarily, I think if, in fact, the paranormal, our psychic functioning, is occurring because of a difference in our construct and how reality operates, then we of course are faced with having to change all of our opinions of reality or how reality operates.
That can be very threatening to a lot of the baseline premises supporting other science.
The other problem involves more of a personal area in that many scientists are either they come in one of two ilks.
One is they're very wedded to some theologic idea or they're very non-wedded to a theologic idea.
In other words, they're either atheists or they're firm believers in a power that moves things.
So in either case, discovering or underscoring an ability that tends to solidify the spiritual side of man or exists within a spiritual nature in man is a very threatening thing.
And I think that this is where a lot of that comes from.
In part of the prelude to actual sleep or to the processes of the body going to sleep, there is a disconnect that occurs where you mentally are wide awake and functioning, but you're disconnected in a sense physically from the rest of your body.
And it translates into a form of paralysis where you think you'd like to move your arm, but it won't move and that sort of thing.
And that's a very normal occurrence, and it occurs with everyone who can retain consciousness long enough as they're going to sleep or retain consciousness early enough when they're waking up to notice.
Joe, we've done extensive talking on this program about out-of-body experiences.
The Monroe Institute and on and on and on and on.
A lot of guests on the subject.
I've got kind of a funny story.
For a few years now, as we've discussed all of this, I've come to that state where I've been paralyzed, even heard the buzzing, and frankly, I'm such a control freak that it made me nauseated, and I yanked myself out of it every single time.
I could no more let that go than the man in the moon.
I can't lose that kind of control.
And so I've never been able to allow myself to go from that point and actually have an OBE.
But I was recently in Paris, Joe, and I was lying in bed with my wife, and without any warning, without any paralysis, without any precursor of any sort, I shot up at an indescribable velocity out of my body and above the city of Paris in some kind of space.
All I've been able to do is describe it as the greatest feeling of ecstasy that I have ever felt.
So great there are not words to describe it.
It shocked me so badly, I snapped right back and I woke my wife up and I started telling her about it.
And it's never happened before.
I can't say it won't ever happen again, but it's nothing I willed to occur, knew was occurring, or had any warning about.
In your case, I would suggest that because you were in a different place and because you were probably somewhat tired, maybe from traveling or maybe from jet lag or maybe just from base activities or all of these stuff.
Right.
You were probably not in as much control as you are normally.
I imagine doing the radio show, you're very structured about your time.
And so not being within that scenario, you had let go of that control with regard to time.
However, there are people who could be considered remote viewers who are in that realm simply because they're having their OBE within the confines of a remote viewing protocol.
In other words, if whatever methodology you're using is happening within a remote viewing protocol, then you could consider it remote viewing.
It was about a year and a half ago that Linda Moulton Howe, well, actually, that I began getting reports of frogs that were dying.
Do you remember that?
We've been talking about that for a year and a half.
Linda Moulton Howe has done endless reports on it.
And, you know, a lot of people consistently called me and said, what a bunch of BS.
Frogs are not dying.
There are very limited deformities.
They come from some sort of snake something or another.
There have been all kinds of things said about it.
But let me tell you, here is a Reuters news story.
None other than our own federal government.
An environmental group and a children's TV show have joined forces to figure out what the hell is going on with the frogs.
Our Interior Secretary, Bruce Babbitt, said, numerous studies show that frogs are dying in alarming numbers.
Others are turning up with gross deformities.
The real questions are why now and why is this happening in so many places around the world?
That's from Babbitt, folks.
I said exactly the same thing a year and a half ago.
The fact that it was occurring in Tokyo, in Africa, in Europe, here in North America, that we should be watching very carefully because something's going on.
And a year and a half later, finally, an acknowledgement from our own government, which leads me to the following with you, Joe.
We've got some real environmental problems, some really serious problems.
We've got chunks of the Antarctic breaking off.
We've got apparent warming going on, controversial, political, but it definitely seems to be occurring because known ice fields are in specific retreat that they can measure.
We've got some ozone problems.
We've got a lot of problems, Joe.
And I wonder if you know anything about where that's leading.
We do have a lot of problems, and I think we're guilty for causing quite a few of them.
Certainly with regard to atomic weapon testing and whatnot, over the last 50 years, we've spread enough contagion around the planet that it's having an effect.
In other words, I think we've thoroughly crapped our nest, and now we're paying for it.
With regard to a lot of these things, however, they could also be major cyclic changes that the world or the planet goes through on a normal basis.
And because we're in a period of time when we do have such intricate communication ability and we can exchange information so readily, we may be now noticing them for the first time.
Regardless of whether you believe it's cyclic or not, in my book, The Ultimate Time Machine, I'm predicting a period of time in the next certainly within the next 75 years, that we're going to see significant sea level changes along the coast, which means during full moons there's going to be water in a lot of people's basements.
I don't think that that'll be a disaster in terms of it all happening overnight, but it will certainly affect us economically.
You know, there'll probably be three to four trillion dollars in changes necessary to deal with it.
But as far as UFOs, yeah, I have at least accidentally viewed UFOs in conjunction with other targets on a few occasions.
My sense of it is that UFOs are definitely vehicles and that they're not from here, whatever that means.
I'm not thoroughly convinced personally yet that they're alien-derived.
They may in fact be time machines or could be intra-dimensional vehicles of some kind.
I just haven't got enough information to make that decision yet, my own mind.
But they're very definitely hardened vehicles and have a profound physical effect on anyone that's near them.
I suspect that they're probably most visible to us when they're either entering or leaving our reality and that once they're here, they're not perceivable.
In other words, they have some form of shielding or they're only here temporarily, that sort of thing.
As a matter of fact, the way I'd like to answer that, my wife told me two years ago when he was elected this second time to office, she said that she came in and announced that it was probably going to not work.
And I said, what do you mean?
And she said, well, every president that's ever been voted into office during a void of course moon has never fulfilled the obligation.
So she predicted two years ago that he would not finish out his term.
And I don't see politically how he could finish out his term under the kinds of pressures he's being put under.
I would like to say personally, however, that I would like to have four hours with Starr sitting at a table and my interrogating him for him to properly put all this into perspective.
I think that it's unconscionable the way they've been treating the office of the president, and I'm not in any way acknowledging or saying that I'm not going to be able to do that.
And if you're able, I always get in trouble for this, and I really don't care, but if you separate his personal conduct from his job conduct, which I think a lot of Americans are able to do, I'm able to do it, then as a president, we've had worse.
The very people that are condemning him for his personal conduct, part of their personal conduct is to support that office of the presidency as far as how it represents the American public and the American country.
And they're doing a great disservice in the way that they're presenting that right now in a public sense.
Right now, I'm looking at a poster that my wife has given to me, and it sits above my desk at work, and it says, have no fear of what the future holds, for God holds the future.
Relating to your events that you conduct with yourself and seeing into the future, do you feel as though we are reaching in the areas that are godlike in this?
Can we be certain that we are not encroaching on the higher beings event calendar?
Yeah, I think one of the important things to remember here is that one of the reasons that make us unique, or one of the things that make us unique as beings within this reality is the fact that we are born with free will.
And part of what makes our theologic beliefs important in that respect is our ability to choose and think about God and the Creator in our own way and to bring whatever form of worship we want to that.
I think in the case of free will, that means that it's up to us to do what we believe is the positive or constructive thing that it's meant to be.
And so we bring a lot of activity or a lot of action to that.
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Okay, with that thought in mind, the positive thing that we could do, on earth we have what we would consider as very evil people.
An example would be a Saddam Hussein.
And if we have the ability to know where he's going to be and what he's going to do, wouldn't it be beneficial to mankind to more or less exterminate or eliminate somebody like him?
Well, the problem you run into when you start considering these kinds of things is you have to take into consideration the stability that he might bring.
As bad as the context might be that it's brought in, he does bring a relative degree of stability to that region and may in fact be the buffer that is preventing an all-out war for power in the northern area of Iraq at the moment.
Certainly if he was to be eliminated, there may not be a strong enough person to take his place, which could result in an invasion of Iraq by some other country and all-out war in the Middle East, from which tens of millions of people would suffer severely.
So those decisions are really hard to make.
And I, for one, don't like making a decision about the life or death of another human being in that regard.
I would much rather try to work with what's available and try to make things positive that way.
unidentified
But if he would have this ability or this knowledge, this capability that is available to you or to other people, don't you think that he would use it in an adverse effect on mankind as he has done with any weapons that he has available to him?
Well, this, again, there's a lot of myth about coordinates.
Way back in the late 70s, early 80s, they used coordinates simply because it was a cheap method of getting someone to a target versus using an outbounder.
And those coordinates were actually map coordinates.
An outbounder was originally in the original use of remote viewing, they would actually send a human being to the target and then target that human being, thinking that another human being had to be present in order to pass the information, possibly.
Well, I'll tell you something that should have been remote viewed.
And there is a very strange story going on in my little town of Perop.
Very strange indeed.
Let me just read you what the Daily Telegraph had to say, all right?
Los Angeles.
Police were investigating the death of a former Las Vegas casino boss after three men were arrested in the desert, digging up a vault containing, check this out, folks, $26 million worth of silver belonging to him.
He's Ted Binion, who until very recently owned Binion's horseshoe, the site of the annual World Series of poker.
He was found dead at his home in what they think might be an accidental drug overdose, but they don't know.
Police are questioning his girlfriend.
Binion's treasure, and this is going to blow your mind, was in a reinforced concrete vault 4.5 meters below ground, right here in the middle of town next to a grocery store in Perump.
$26 million worth of silver.
It came right up out of the ground in the middle of Perump the other day.
What can I say, folks?
I live in a very, very strange place.
This is the end of Sag 1.
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Please leave the cassette exactly where it is, flip it over, and begin again.
The End
From the Kingdom of Nigh, coast to coast AM continues with Art Bell.
I certainly lit that machine up in a hurry, but you need a reasonable reason for looking somewhere, and then of course you can use remote viewing.
One of the problems you run into is being very, very specific about the location.
Obviously, if something is buried three to four meters in the ground, that entails a lot of digging, or at least gaining some entry to it.
I think more to the point is that you would need some place of origin to start, you know, some idea about a treasure being in a certain location in order to try to apply remote viewing.
I understand that originally you would send somebody to the location to be viewed, but I have never understood the process by which a control generates a random set of numbers that are a target that the remote viewer goes after.
I have always imagined the only thing that can be occurring here is a transference from the control to the remote viewer by some mental means of what the target is.
What actually happened very early on in the project when we went from the actual person going to the target to physical map locations and using map coordinates, for obvious reasons that wasn't going to work for skeptics.
So we started putting those coordinates into sealed envelopes.
The difficulty we ran into then is in dealing with subjects who are new to remote viewing, it's a much larger leap from being able to remote view something that's identified by blank envelope than identifying, being identified by some numerical system that at least is a proxy for the target.
What the actual targeting mechanism is, at least what we believe it is, is intent.
It's what everyone has agreed to as the intent of the outcome.
That gets you to the target.
Now, having said that, I need to go back and say that you can't take what I just said and apply it within a training scenario.
Because when you're dealing with someone you're trying to convince, can target something with basically just intent.
That's a piecemeal situation.
You have to lock them to that belief.
So you start out by targeting them on targets that have at least a proxy targeting mechanism, which would be a set of coordinates, whether they're invented or otherwise.
Hey, Joe, I wanted to ask you, have you or any of your team ever done any remote viewing and discovery of any catastrophic solar flares hitting the Earth, for instance, in April of 99?
One of the things that is really nice about living on the Earth instead of some other planet is that we do have a nice atmosphere that protects us from that sort of thing.
There certainly is some degree of effect from some of the bursts of electromagnetics that are involved in a solar flare.
They're most readily noticeable within certain frequencies of radio communication or broadcast communication.
I don't know of any other effect that I would project that I know of, at least in terms of the past or the present or the future, that would indicate any kind of a dire outcome from a solar flare.
Okay, there are Israeli scientists now who believe the dinosaurs were not, in fact, killed by what's known as a KT event, but rather by radiation, sudden immense amounts of radiation.
But that would be sort of the, you know, I like to look at this as, well, that's sort of the negative side of the same coin.
In looking at a positive side of that coin, you might say that one of the reasons why mankind evolved faster and better than some of the other species that we coexisted with is because the intense radiation from one of those flares might have caused a genetic change in our brains makeup that caused us to grow additional cells.
Yes, in fact, it's in the ultimate time machine as of past viewing.
And I actually did the remote viewing, and it was a double-blind scenario in 1983.
And what I had was essentially a vision of a large placid lake, and they were using the surface of this man-made lake to create a perfectly flat engineering plane.
And they were using the water to lubricate a certain kind of saw to level the stones in the first two or three layers of the pyramid.
And it was about a year ago, maybe a little longer now, on the front page of the LA Times they came out with an article.
Scientists, archaeologists have discovered an archaic lake that existed in the middle of the desert and now theorize that the Egyptians or whoever built the Great Pyramid probably moved stones using rafts and they were surprised to find out they had actually had a paved road and a dock area and saws and all that sort of thing.
And I can't help but think if just one person had been open to remote viewing in 1983, they could have said, well, if this is correct, then you can look at a topographical map and See where that lake would have had to have been.
You know, hypothesized where the edges of that lake would have had to have been to do that.
And you could have gone there and discovered that, you know, 17 years earlier or whatever.
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But that wasn't done because no one had an open mind.
I have an article here which came from the Electronic Telegraph entitled Remote Views, CIA Signed Up Psychics as Spooks.
And they're talking about Dr. Putoff and the beginnings of all this.
And apparently, they told him there was increasing concern within the intelligence community, the birth of all this, about the Soviet interest in parapsychology.
They asked if Dr. Putoff could arrange for a demonstration of Ingol Swan's abilities.
The results of those experiments, in which objects were hidden in boxes, impressed the CIA sufficiently to commission Dr. Putoff to set up a more detailed study.
If remote viewing were to be of any intelligence value to the CIA, questions such as how far away the site could be, whether a sender had to be present at the target site needed to be addressed.
Now, is that essentially an accurate description of how it all began?
We've done some very interesting targeting over the years, and some of it's worked very well, and some of it hasn't worked at all.
I think the thing to remember is that we really don't know a great deal about how the information is transferred.
We know something about what affects it, and we also have some degree of knowledge about how it might be improved to a certain extent.
But in terms of its consistency, it still suffers.
In terms of its accuracy, it's very, very difficult to determine accuracy prior to a post-stock analysis of the results.
So, you know, there's a lot to be desired.
But I think what's important to state is that you can absolutely be assured based on 25 years of research that psychic functioning is real and that it's within the human capacity.
Y2K is coming up quickly, and I've had a number of guests, Joe, very knowledgeable, and it's backed up by things the government has said, even the president.
This incredible thing that's coming toward us, a fixed date that could account for a collapse of a good part of society, civilization as we know it, power grids, banks, commerce.
The area of concern, my concern, is more of a social one than a technological one.
I think technologically we can solve the problem, and it'll take time.
But socially we have a serious, serious problem socially in that over the past 50 years we have essentially developed a whole new managerial level within government without where people make decisions based on computer runs and whether or not the right columns filled in and they don't they no longer make those decisions based on intuitive gut feeling or instinct and as a result of that when these people are forced to make some very major decisions because
of automation they may be making the wrong ones and that's going to have a great deal of impact across the board I'm afraid I agree with that as well caller you had something else well WWTN talk radio John Grayson yes was talking here the other night said something about Africanized killer bees I guess round you know I live in a very interesting place there's an Associated Press story out right now saying that my little town of Pahrump is now
the host of swarms of killer bees and it's like I asked what next locusts you never know why two canes and solar flares the bees killer bees swarms of killer bees really makes a person go out comfortable to go out at night west of the Rockies you're on the air with Joe McGonagall and not a lot of time left a low
unidentified
this way it well you know that for certain but it sounds like like I've been waiting a long time well here you are I'm calling from the state of Washington my name is John I have two areas number one it was brought up that some areas of research are not gotten into by maybe even remote viewers because it disagrees with their theology that's right so I believe this is my one one area
that reincarnation could be validated by remote viewing now don't comment the other area is one interviewee on the Art Bell show made the statement that UFO abductions are done With the permission of the person who's abducted, and the only way that permission could be given would be prior to being born in the life that they're living, where they get abducted from.
I personally do not hold to the premise of reincarnation.
Having said that, I have to say that I do hold to the premise that we exist in multiple carnations, incarnations, which means that I exist perhaps in 2,000 lives simultaneously.
I am, in fact, the Roman soldier as I am talking on the phone now.
Or I am, in fact, the star traveler in the year 3,000.