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Sept. 22, 1998 - Art Bell
01:48:45
19980922_-_Coast_to_Coast_AM_with_Art_Bell_-_Hurricane_Georges_Hotline_Interview_-_Brad_Steiger

Richard C. Hoagland and Tom Bearden challenge classical electrodynamics, citing NASA probe anomalies and historical tracking errors as evidence of a weakening universal gravity G and variable light speed. They allege the KGB weaponized longitudinal waves to cause seismic events, destroy submarines like the USS Thresher, engineer weather patterns, and induce Gulf War syndrome, while suppressed French research hints at medical cures via cellular time-reversal. The discussion further claims the Iridium constellation serves as a secret fallback for physics shifts and warns that orbital anomalies threaten satellites, suggesting these hidden technologies could trigger global economic meltdowns if not properly understood. [Automatically generated summary]

Participants
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art bell
24:51
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richard c hoagland
54:26
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Speaker Time Text
Winds Screaming In Puerto Rico 00:02:55
art bell
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning, as the case may be.
It's great to be here.
Better here is in Puerto Rico, where the winds are screaming.
I talked to Seth Shostock, who's not in Puerto Rico right now, because he said, well, we watched this thing churning across the Atlantic Ocean.
I talked about 10 minutes ago, and he said at the time that wind gusts were around 200 miles an hour, and he said Aerocibo itself was only meant to withstand 200 mile an hour winds.
And so that's it.
We packed up, they closed up, we got out of there.
SETI is obviously not manning the Aerocibo telescope at the moment.
As a matter of fact, probably all you would see would be boarded up windows and that sort of thing with hurricanes screaming through the island.
There are already three dead in Puerto Rico.
To the business at hand, Richard C. Hoagland was an advisor to Walter Cronkite, science advisor.
He was at one time a science advisor or advisor to NASA, where they now have large busts of him in the halls.
People still salute as they walk by.
He has been an investigator into things uncommon, but scientific for a very long time.
He's on to a lot of really interesting stuff.
And Tom Bearden are both coming.
Tom Bearden, let me tell you just a little bit of what I know.
He is a retired Army colonel.
And what he is going to tell you tonight, a lot of it's going to be presented in the guise of theory and fiction.
But I'm telling you all, listen to what Tom Bearden says very carefully because I'm told, read between the lines because most of what you're going to hear is real.
It is being presented in the manner that it is, probably to avoid people going to jail or something.
So welcome to you two.
richard c hoagland
Good evening, Art.
art bell
That would be the voice of Richard C. Hoagland in New Mexico.
unidentified
Hi, Art.
art bell
And that would be the voice of Tom Bearden, a physicist with a big black ops background.
And so as I point, is that a fair characterization, Tom, I gave of the information you're going to present, or should I retract it?
Dimensions And Applications 00:13:01
unidentified
Well, it'll be just a little bit different.
First of all, I'm not really a physicist.
I'm a nuclear engineer.
Okay.
And second, I'm not really in the deep black so much.
I had some intelligence assignments, but mostly in technical intelligence.
In other words, we worked on what the other guys had and what we thought they might have.
Oh, I didn't know.
art bell
Okay, well, if that, yeah, but if that's not black ops, then what is?
unidentified
Well, it got into that area, but I'm not the type that's out in the field.
Okay.
I know.
art bell
I understand that.
But I mean, I said as we talk about some of the technical things we're going to talk about this morning, we'll present it as theory or fiction.
unidentified
They're black enough, that's for sure.
art bell
Okay, that's all I wanted.
Just why I wanted to know.
Richard, where should we begin?
richard c hoagland
Well, let me try to give some context.
You and, of course, the audience and Tom know for a long time I've been looking at this field I term hyperdimensional physics, which most people, they stop me right there and they say, what in the world is a hyperdimensional?
And so tonight, let me define it.
We know what dimensional is.
We know what length and width and height is in the normal three dimensions of our existence.
Living room furniture has a length, a width, and a height.
Freezers have length, width, and height, and all that.
Supposedly, there is a fourth dimension of time, which Einstein gave us via general and special relativity.
But before that, back in the last century, in the 19th century, there were a group of scientists, physicists, mathematicians, and others, who were really playing around and toying around and thinking long and hard about more than three spatial dimensions.
And therefore, the term hyper.
Anything that's hyper is beyond or above normal.
So hyperdimensional means beyond three normal dimensions.
And hyperdimensional physics means a physics which must encompass more than three normal spatial dimensions to be on the way to completeness, to be a unified model, a real model of reality.
Well, many years ago, my interest centered on Tom Bearden because he was one of the few people, I mean really few people, that I encountered on the lecture circuit who was actually talking, A, about hyperdimensional physics, although I don't think, Tom, you used the term in those days.
unidentified
I did early on, yes.
richard c hoagland
Okay, well, I caught you.
You were into the scalar phase of your discussions at the point I caught you.
unidentified
Right.
richard c hoagland
And then the other thing that Tom did was he introduced me to the real Maxwell, James Clark Maxwell, who can be considered the father of modern non-relativistic physics.
I mean, if you say the name Einstein, everybody thinks relativity.
But when you say to most technical people and physicists and engineers the name Maxwell, they think of everything up to Einstein.
So those two people are kind of like the super icons of the foundation of the world we think we inhabit in terms of science.
Well, Tom introduced me to some pretty interesting things about Maxwell that I didn't know, and I'm sure that most other physicists don't know, namely that the Maxwell that we read about is not the Maxwell that really existed.
It is a version.
It is a kind of a 2D cardboard cutout of the extraordinary multi-dimensional universe that Maxwell and his colleagues were playing with, imagining, working with, trying to model, trying to predict scientific facts from.
art bell
Well, even modern-day theoretical physicists, best minds in the nation, like Michio Kaku, who I interview all the time, almost thinks that a number of universes or parallel universes are passe.
I mean, he's so accepted the fact that they exist.
richard c hoagland
Well, it has come back a long circle to where the idea of multidimensionality as a solution to the big problems of science, the big problems of physics, is once again in.
It's once again deroguer.
But the difference is that where, you know, Kaku and his colleagues talk about 26 dimensions or 10 dimensions, and you can't test them.
There's no laboratory test you can propose that will decide whether their models, their hyperdimensional models, are real, because it would literally take more energy than there exists probably in one half of the known universe.
art bell
And he admits that.
unidentified
Okay.
richard c hoagland
The Maxwell multidimensional models we have discovered through Enterprise, through the work that I and my colleagues have been doing, and that then impinges directly on what Tom Beard was going to talk about tonight, is incredibly, eminently, and blatantly testable.
And that's where the two pathways, the two thinking processes, radically diverge.
art bell
All right, I want to stop and say something to my audience.
Now, for a lot of them, this seems like a bit much.
But you have an extensive presentation paper now on your website about hyperdimensional physics.
And I need to tell my audience that even people who hate your guts, Richard, and there are...
richard c hoagland
You sound like Bill Clinton.
art bell
There are a few.
Actually, Clinton may have better approval ratings than you in some cases in the halls of science.
Now, but these people, mathematicians, physicists, have been emailing me, and they say that the paper you have put up there is of great substance, great importance, deserves study, and nobody but nobody, even the people who hate your guts, have said that, have poo-pooed it.
None of them.
richard c hoagland
Well, that's because science is democracy.
And the ultimate purest democracy, it doesn't matter what personality you carry or what baggage you carry or whether somebody likes the cut of your beard.
The bottom cruel line of the universe is if it works, it's real.
If it doesn't, it's not.
And the thing we're going to get to tonight, beyond the theory, beyond the ideas, what Tom is bringing to the table is a whole series of engineering capabilities, implications for real machines and real devices and real breakthroughs and real-world implications for putting this hyperdimensional physics to work.
art bell
Yeah, I always ask you about that.
Application.
Application, application, application.
richard c hoagland
And that's where we're going to go tonight.
art bell
Oh, really?
What can we do if hyperdimensional physics is real and the power can indeed be harnessed?
What can we do with it?
richard c hoagland
Thomas?
unidentified
Well, that's a good question.
And the answer is you can do just about anything you wish to once you develop the technology.
Let me explain just a little bit.
We have actually two things ongoing in the discussion so far.
richard c hoagland
One, the dimensionality of a model, a dimension is really not that extraordinary.
unidentified
It's just a degree of freedom, basically, when you come down.
Something can vary in a certain direction.
richard c hoagland
And mathematicians can work in any number of dimensions that you wish.
unidentified
But if you cut down the number of dimensions, what you're really cutting down is you're freezing the system more and more.
You're not allowing it to vary or to function like it really could function.
Right.
art bell
For example, if a human could only move in two dimensions, you'd be very limited.
unidentified
You'd run around on the surface of the ground, on the flat table, you'd never be able to climb a tree.
Exactly.
And it'd be hard to get away from the saber-tooth that way.
In other words, it does have some practical use.
That third dimension does.
art bell
I'll bear that in mind when I go to Africa now.
unidentified
Right.
But the thing is that we talk about then what?
richard c hoagland
If we all lived in two dimensions, you wouldn't have taken your fall the other night.
art bell
It's true, but I wouldn't have had a porch either.
unidentified
That's true.
art bell
This gives the audience some idea of what dimensions are all about.
richard c hoagland
The other thing you have is any model, any kind of theory, like the theory of electrodynamics or something, you pick a particular algebra that you embed the theory in.
unidentified
Now, an algebra is like a chessboard.
It's got a certain fixed domain.
It's got a certain set of functions that you're allowed to do.
It's like a game, a special game that's been constructed.
richard c hoagland
Tom, let me interrupt just for a second.
It's also like a language.
unidentified
That's right.
It's also like a language.
richard c hoagland
If you were constricted to pidgin English to describe Samoan sunset, obviously your audience wouldn't get the point.
But if you have the King's English or you have Latin or you have, you know, Shakespeare, you can be much richer in metaphor and texture and subtlety and nuance.
I mean, the Eskimos have how many words just for ice?
unidentified
Yes.
richard c hoagland
So mathematics, an algebra, is like a language in that the richer it is, the more you can use it to describe the real reality that surrounds us.
Well, the functions that come out of it, the more functions that it has, that makes it a higher topology algebra.
Topology, all that means is look at it like a little flat piece of paper, only now you're able to stretch it and pull it like a rubber sheet and twist it and tighten knots and so forth.
art bell
Well, here's a good analogy, Tom.
Before we split the atom, we theorized, we did the math, and we decided the atom could be split, but we didn't know it for sure until we did it.
Nevertheless, the math forecasted the fact that we were going to be able to split the atom, isn't that correct?
unidentified
That's correct.
As a matter of fact, Campbell, you know, in the old magazine today is called Analog.
It was called Astounding Science Fiction then during the war.
He just checked out some physics books and he put together a little article about how to build an atomic bomb.
richard c hoagland
Startled the entire Manhattan Project.
unidentified
Because he was right on, except he didn't know what the critical mass of uranium was.
art bell
Well, all I'm trying to get to here is if we can forecast the splitting of an atom mathematically, then we can forecast Richard's hyperdimensional physics and what they're going to mean to us mathematically as well.
And that's really what you're saying, I think.
richard c hoagland
Yes, and in particle physics, particularly, you have to keep adding dimensions because you can't get all the crazy particles in that keep coming out of the experiments unless you do open up the model.
unidentified
You can't just stay in a fixed small number of dimensions.
About the least you can get away with is about 11, and I think now it's up higher than that.
art bell
All right, now, one big question is how we prove all this.
And Richard really tantalized me with something.
He said to me the other day, Hey, Art, you know, our deep probe spacecraft are not acting as they should act, given known physics.
And I said, what?
He said, yeah, gravitationally, there are anomalies that cannot be, simply cannot be explained.
And there's big news about our deep probe spacecraft.
So when we get back, I think I want to head in that direction and see if that underscores the hyperdimensional side of physics and the other dimensions.
And that's exactly what we're going to do.
So that's the teaser line right there, folks.
Our deep probe spacecraft have been found to be not operating as they should.
In other words, defying the laws of known physics.
Now, how can that be?
Well, easy.
There's something we don't know.
I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AF.
touch that dial going to cover deep probe spacecraft in a moment but actually I'm going to preempt even that discussion for a second Something we should have done at the beginning of the program, and I will now do.
I'll do it by reading the following facts from Ontario in Canada.
John's Unexplained Risk 00:03:00
art bell
Dear Art, I would like to talk about John Holloman as unfinished business from last week.
Like yourself, I, too, was very saddened to hear about his death.
You know, I've watched him over the years and always looked forward to his upbeat, enthusiastic reporting style.
Was glad for him when he was given the exciting space shuttle program to cover.
You mentioned you'd be talking to Richard Hoagland Monday night tonight.
Could you please ask him what he thinks of the vagueness and too few details given out about John's death?
How it occurred.
A man who survived so many earlier worldly close calls to be taken out that close to home in such a manner doesn't make sense to me.
Upon hearing the news after the initial shock wore off, the first question I found myself asking was, what was it that forced John to take such a profound risk on the road that day?
He knew the road well, traveled it often, knew there was a no-passing rule along that stretch of road.
He was an intelligent, seasoned man, it seemed to me, who would just simply not take his life, his sons, into his hands, unless he felt it was absolutely necessary.
And the silly reason reported to People magazine just doesn't cut it somehow.
Could someone else have been involved?
Was something weighing heavily on his mind that perhaps distracted him?
There really are many questions.
And Richard, we can't let the night go by without letting you say something about John Holloman.
richard c hoagland
Well, first of all, I was, as everybody else, shocked.
I mean, you were the one to call me and basically call my attention to the CNN bulletin, and you know I was stunned.
I had been looking forward to John and Walter getting together.
There had been some discussion, very low-key, of maybe me doing something on the mission with Walter and with John just because it would have been so neat and so nostalgic, and it was something that we were keeping very quiet, and that obviously has all been cut short now.
But in terms of the facts, we don't want to leap to the sensational.
You know, there are times when things so bizarre just happen.
What I find equally bizarre is that a few minutes after it's not there and he almost killed himself.
unidentified
Yeah.
richard c hoagland
And it was really, you know, you deserve a Darwin because...
unidentified
I know.
richard c hoagland
But that's what entropy does.
Space Probes And Gravity Anomaly 00:15:48
richard c hoagland
Not everything is logical.
Not everything is rational.
Not everything looks like it makes any sense at all.
And senseless tragedies happen all around us every day.
As you know, I am spring-loaded to look for the C-word, you know.
unidentified
Sure.
richard c hoagland
And I am trying very hard not to, just because if we squander the precious resource of searching for the truth, and when we find it, announcing it, talking about it, we devalue that coin and we can never retrieve the value.
art bell
All right, well, we'll leave it there, but indeed, for all of us, it was very sad.
John Holloman is a big loss.
He was a friend.
All right, we'll leave it right there for now.
Now, our deep space probes.
I hope I'm going down the right absolutely.
unidentified
I am.
richard c hoagland
Timing is impeccable.
unidentified
Good.
art bell
Tom, something is weird with our deep space probes.
What's going on?
richard c hoagland
Well, I'm not sure.
unidentified
I haven't actually studied the space probe itself.
I've been confining most of my work to energy and to some medical applications.
And so I haven't looked at the probe itself.
I do know that from the weaponry aspects, some very strange kinds of weapons are being used right now, which do affect the local potential of the space-time itself.
What?
So it may be that you're having some effect like that, but that's just a guess.
I simply haven't looked at it.
art bell
Oh, Jehoshaphat.
Well, we're going to come back to that one later.
richard c hoagland
We'll definitely come back to that.
Let me try to give some context.
I called you up and I sent this facts to you, which have been sent to me, by the way, by an old colleague of ours, Ken Johnston.
Yes, former Boeing engineer, former test astronaut who's been a member of Enterprise now for some years.
In the very distinguished journal, mainstream science journal, The New Scientist, published in Britain, on September 12th, a remarkable article appeared.
In fact, it's so remarkable that what we've done is have our ACE webmaster, Keith Keith Rowland, have got up on our website at the top of the Enterprise mission website, accessible through the Art Bell website, a short link directly to the new scientist gravity article I'm going to describe in a moment.
So just go to artbell.com and you'll find my Gift My Name and you can go to Enterprise or you can go to Enterprise directly at www.enterprisemission.com.
At the very top of the home page, and now hear this, you will see a report on a NASA solar gravity anomaly, which appears to confirm additionally the hyperdimensional model.
And there's a link directly to the new scientist article.
art bell
Okay, but a NASA solar gravity anomaly.
unidentified
That's right.
art bell
Break that one down, Ning.
richard c hoagland
Okay, for several years, an old friend of mine at JPL, John Anderson, who is, together with Tom Van Flandren, probably one of the preeminent celestial mechanics experts in the solar system.
art bell
Yes, sir.
richard c hoagland
John and I worked together with Jim Warwick back during the Voyager days on the anomalies found in Saturn's rings.
And there was a whole little synergistic thing that three or four of us did that resolved that there was something really wondrous and bizarre embedded in the main ring of Saturn found during the 1980 and 81 flybys by the Voyager spacecraft.
At that time, John was beginning a project at JPL to track the outer solar system missions.
We have sent now two pioneer spacecraft beginning in the early 70s, two Voyagers beginning in the mid-70s.
We've now got a Ulysses probe that went in the late 70s, early 80s.
And we've got a Galileo mission that started in the 80s and wound up in 95 going into orbit around Jupiter.
All these spacecraft are being tracked by means of radio signals.
unidentified
Correct.
richard c hoagland
The way we know where they are is we, meaning science, has a general model.
It's actually now called the JPL Ephemeris for how gravity in the solar system behaves.
And it applies to the sun, applies to every planet, every moon.
It's basically how you navigate between Earth and Moon back when we used to go to Earth and Moon back during my Cronkite days.
art bell
Okay, now you're losing me a little.
We know where the spacecraft is based on a model of gravity.
richard c hoagland
We have a model of how gravity works.
art bell
Does that what are we saying here?
That the various gravitational poles of stars, Planets.
unidentified
Just think of the solar system.
richard c hoagland
Exactly.
It's the solar system and the bodies in it.
art bell
It should affect the spacecraft.
In a very known way, at a known distance.
richard c hoagland
Down to, oh, I mean, we're talking eight, nine decimals.
unidentified
All right?
Okay.
richard c hoagland
Extraordinary precision.
art bell
All right.
richard c hoagland
And it's based on the theoretical model that comes out of Einstein with minor relativity corrections and based on what's called radio tracking.
unidentified
Okay.
richard c hoagland
A spacecraft is sending a signal back to Earth.
That signal, depending upon how fast the spacecraft is moving, has a certain frequency.
unidentified
Correct.
richard c hoagland
If it's moving away, the frequency is lower.
The pitch is lowered.
If it's moving toward you, the pitch gets higher.
art bell
So you have a constant Doppler effect.
richard c hoagland
You have a Doppler, right?
A Doppler tracking.
There's also what's called a range tracking.
It's kind of like standing on the side of a canyon and going, hello, and then you hear a few seconds later, hello, hello, hello, the echo.
So a spacecraft gets the signal.
It doesn't reflect it.
It basically regurgitates it.
It absorbs it.
It re-transmits it with a time hack, with a time code.
unidentified
Right.
richard c hoagland
So that the computers on the ground know when the signal that went from Earth got to the spacecraft and when it came back.
art bell
Right.
richard c hoagland
Based on those two tracking methods, we know where spacecraft are supposed to be all over the solar system.
And there are dozens of spacecraft being tracked every single day by NASA's deep space network.
art bell
I understand.
So what's wrong?
richard c hoagland
Now, in this article, John and his colleagues report that for these four or five spacecraft that I named, you know, the Pioneers and the Galileo and Ulysses, apparently closer than they should be.
art bell
Meaning closer to us?
richard c hoagland
Closer to the sun.
Well, us and the sun at that distance.
We're talking billions of miles out there.
We're so close to the sun that it's basically to us as well as the sun.
art bell
So you're saying they're not as far out as they should be?
richard c hoagland
They have not traveled as far as they should.
They have been slowed down by some mysterious force, meaning in this article that the calculated model of the sun's gravity field is different than it should be.
So of course this caught my attention because one of the key predictions of the hyperdimensional model is, guys, gravity, Earth, Moon, Mars, wherever, Sun must change over time.
It is not constant.
So that's what I reported to you, and that's what I sent to you, and that's what Tom and I and Tom Van Planner were discussing the other night.
And tonight I have some new news.
unidentified
Yes.
richard c hoagland
Because it is my contention, and Tom wants me to be qualified on this, so I'm going to be very scientific, and I'm going to follow your prescription, Tom.
unidentified
Okay.
richard c hoagland
It is my contention that NASA may, in fact, be wrong.
That there's nothing wrong with gravity.
That in fact, the gravity of the Sun, instead of getting stronger, as this article implies, should be getting weaker.
Now, why do I say that?
Because if you go back to the paper that you talked about a few minutes ago on the web, there are experiments in laboratories all over the Earth indicating that G, the force of gravity between objects, is getting weaker.
Now, Tom may have something to say on that in a few minutes.
art bell
By that, do you mean all gravity?
richard c hoagland
Well, the laboratories are here on Earth, all right?
But the presumption would be in the model that if gravity on Earth is getting weaker, then gravity all over the solar system should be getting weaker.
It's very hard to imagine in a natural model that the sun's gravity would get stronger and the Earth's gravity would get weaker.
art bell
And so you're saying if gravity universally, as we understand it, is becoming weaker, that would account for what's occurring to the spacecraft?
richard c hoagland
No, I'm saying that's the exact opposite.
Here's the paradox.
We've got good lab data saying that G is getting weaker.
unidentified
Right.
richard c hoagland
We've got tracking by NASA of distant spacecraft saying it's getting stronger.
There's a problem with this picture.
It took me about a day to, I think, figure it out.
And it's such a neat explanation.
And when I've run it past people like Ken and some others who are kind of involved in this, everybody has had the eureka experience.
They've said, oh my God.
art bell
Okay, so if I'm understanding correctly, our spacecraft are suddenly not as far out as they ought to be, meaning that the tug on them is stronger than it ought to be.
It ought to be getting weaker as they get farther away from our sun.
richard c hoagland
On a predictable model.
And it's not getting weaker as fast as it should.
That's what NASA is thinking.
unidentified
Okay.
richard c hoagland
So they're finding their spacecraft are closer to home.
art bell
I've got you thank you.
richard c hoagland
Well, I'm saying tonight that that interpretation may not be correct.
And if it's not correct, it means that the hyperdimensional model is even in better shape than I imagined when I talked to you.
Let me tell you what the answer to the puzzle is.
unidentified
Sure.
richard c hoagland
The speed of light is changing.
unidentified
Watch.
richard c hoagland
A key prediction of the hyperdimensional model is the speed of light is not constant.
And Tom and I will talk in the next few minutes of a whole host of experiments, from laboratory experiments here to astronomical experiments that over the last century or so have proven that.
In fact, there are websites I can point people to through our website where there are paper after paper after paper of historical changes in the speed of light, which just don't get reported by interesting coincidence.
Well, radio waves travel supposedly at the same speed as light waves.
unidentified
Yes.
richard c hoagland
Imagine this.
If the radio waves are now, because the physics predicts it, traveling faster.
In other words, our model says as G gets smaller, as the force of gravitation between objects apparently gets weaker, the speed of light will get greater.
unidentified
Okay.
richard c hoagland
In proportion.
art bell
Meaning the speed of radio signals.
unidentified
Yes.
That's right.
art bell
I've got you.
unidentified
Okay.
richard c hoagland
Go back to my guy standing on the edge of the cliff hollering hello, waiting for the echo.
He knows that the speed of sound is a certain value, 1,000 feet per second.
He expects that if he knows how far away the other side of the Grand Canyon is, that his echo will come back in a known number of seconds, right?
unidentified
Right.
richard c hoagland
If it comes back earlier, he's going to assume that the canyon wall is closer than it was.
unidentified
Correct.
richard c hoagland
But suppose the speed of sound is changing.
We know that the speed of sound changes with temperature.
If he doesn't factor in the change in the speed of sound, he will get an erroneous result.
By the same factor, if the speed of light, the speed of radio waves traveling in the solar system is just a little bit greater than the textbook value now, what will happen is that the spacecraft will get the signal quicker than it should have.
It will return it quicker than it should.
The ground computers, assuming a fixed speed, will say, oh, it's got to be closer, and thereby the whole thing is resolved.
But it's not gravity getting stronger.
This is the solution.
In fact, gravity, when you do the actual calculation, turns out to be getting weaker along with the lab data here on Earth.
So the extraordinary anomaly that NASA is on record now is saying exists can have two interpretations when all the other possibilities of unseen planets and plasmas and all the stuff that in the paper they eliminate as an easy answer is eliminated.
And either answer is extraordinary.
But the speed of light one is the one that is in conformance with our model, and that's the one that ultimately is going to be resolved.
Now, where are we going with this?
unidentified
Well, may I?
richard c hoagland
NASA has another mission.
art bell
May I ask one question?
richard c hoagland
Absolutely.
art bell
We look at objects that are as far out as nearly 15 billion light years.
richard c hoagland
Presumably.
art bell
Now, what would be a small error in the distance you're talking about right now?
unidentified
Absolutely.
art bell
About 15 billion light years out would be an incredibly gigantic error.
richard c hoagland
The term astronomical error does seem appropriate.
art bell
Astronomical error.
unidentified
So.
richard c hoagland
You're thinking along the right track.
unidentified
Am I?
Yeah, of course.
richard c hoagland
Remember when we had this thing?
art bell
So then how would you apply this equation, if you work it out along the lines that you think you've got it worked out, to something as far out as 15 billion light years?
unidentified
Well, the problem.
richard c hoagland
The problem is that you're not going to know unless you get baseline data.
You can't send a signal now and get an echo back.
art bell
That's right.
richard c hoagland
In any human lifetime or 10,000 human lifetimes.
art bell
Would take 30 billion light years.
unidentified
That's right.
richard c hoagland
What you need to do is to measure things where you know rotation and see differences.
unidentified
I mean...
art bell
But couldn't it mean, Richard, that all our assumptions about distance are caca?
unidentified
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
richard c hoagland
In fact, that's what I've said on several programs, that be careful that you don't interpret the redshift as a distance.
The redshift can have another hyperdimensional explanation, which means that huge explosion that everybody was all gaga about a few weeks ago.
unidentified
Yeah.
richard c hoagland
The event that was bigger than the Big Bang.
unidentified
That's right.
richard c hoagland
I told you, be careful because it could be one heck of a lot closer and therefore a heck of a lot weaker than Kaku and the standard guys were proposing.
This new data from NASA, from our friendly local, I stress the local, neighborhood space agency, is moving us in the direction that the universe we think we know, we don't really know.
Because years ago, a century ago, James Clark Maxwell was suborned.
They talk about suborning perjury.
Well, poor Maxwell was suborned, and the laws of physics that we think we're operating under are not really the full set of the laws of physics.
unidentified
All right.
art bell
You've laid it out pretty well.
We've not got a lot of time before the top of the hour, and I've not asked Tom very much, but Tom, you're a nuclear engineer.
When you listen to this well-done explanation of what Richard believes may be going on, how does it set with you?
unidentified
Well, it sets pretty good.
I would phrase it a little different.
For example, when we're talking about the gravitational pull, we're actually talking about the creation of a force on an object, gravitational force in this case.
And from a general relativity viewpoint, what you're talking about is a change in the curvature of space-time.
The curvature of space-time, a little curvature, generates a force.
Mass or trapped energy curves space-time.
The curvature of space-time reacts back upon the mass to produce a force.
richard c hoagland
General relativity is based on the fact that space-time itself, or curvatures in it, are active back upon mass.
And so when we're talking about something is happening to a spaceship, there's a local effect on that ship.
unidentified
Now, we can say the whole sun has decreased or increased or changed its gravitational attraction.
art bell
That may be, Tom, hold on.
We've got a break here at the top of the hour.
We'll be right back and talk more about what's happening to our deep space probes.
Change in Speed of Light? 00:00:57
art bell
Once again, here I am.
Good morning, everybody.
Great to be here.
And I mean that.
Tom Beardon is here.
He's a nuclear engineer, along with Richard C. Hoagland.
We just found out something rather interesting.
Our deep probe spacecraft are not acting as they should.
Meaning they're not as far away as NASA thought they were.
Now, why would that be?
A change in gravity?
Or, as Richard suggests, consistent with hyperdimensional physics, a change in the speed of light?
Tickets Available Door 00:03:41
art bell
Radio waves, light, similar.
Actually getting faster?
That's what we're being told.
This will be presented to some degree in the theoretical, but you need to read between the lines.
Tom Bearden is a retired Army colonel who was involved in some pretty interesting projects, some of which he can't talk about in a very direct way.
So you're going to have to read a little bit between the lines as you listen to some of what you're about to hear.
Apparently, Richard C. Hoagland and Lieutenant Colonel Thomas Bearden, with whom we're talking at the moment, as well as astronomer Tom Van Flandren, are going to be appearing in Seattle, I guess.
And they're running some commercials up there that might say the wrong thing.
Apparently, tickets are going to be available at the door, and that's what's supposed to be said on the commercial, and I've got news that it is somehow wrong or something.
So when is this thing you're doing, Richard?
richard c hoagland
It's Saturday and Sunday, the 26th and 27th.
And it's the first time that the three of us have done anything in public.
It's a two-day conference, and it's going to explore not only the dimensions of the hyperdimensional physics and some of the things that Tom is going to talk about tonight in much greater detail, but it's also going to bring Tom Van Flandren together with Tom Bearden.
unidentified
Right.
richard c hoagland
Because, of course, Van Flandren is looking at planets which for some reason go bang in the prehistory of the solar system.
And the energy sources that we're talking about, the hyperdimensional model, certainly is more than adequate to blow planets apart.
And what has happened, of course, is as a result, if you even don't go along with Tom, we have what's called asteroid and or meteor problem.
art bell
All right, but you're drifting on me.
richard c hoagland
All right, what we're going to talk about is the application of this physics and this technology.
art bell
Where is this, Richard?
richard c hoagland
It's going to be at the Seattle Center.
art bell
Thank you.
richard c hoagland
Sorry.
In Seattle from 7, I'm sorry, from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. 10, 5.
On Saturday.
unidentified
Okay.
richard c hoagland
From 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. on Sunday.
And from 7 p.m. to 10 p.m. on Saturday night, we're having a roundtable, kind of like a town meeting.
And the tickets are available.
There is a phone number I can give you, which is 360-491-3714.
art bell
All right, but there's a big thing apparently about tickets also available at the door.
richard c hoagland
And they will be available at the door.
art bell
All right, good.
I wanted to get that in.
I got a little facts here saying this is the act of a desperate woman.
They're running the wrong spot.
unidentified
Uh-oh.
art bell
So tickets available at the door.
There you go.
So I feel I've done my duty now.
unidentified
Thank you, Tom.
Thank you.
art bell
All right, now, we were talking about the speed of light actually increasing as one explanation for what is wrong with our deep probe spacecraft and not only spacecraft, but you're suggesting other astronomical objects as well, like meteors or asteroids or whatever.
Astronomical Errors Propagate 00:13:40
richard c hoagland
Well, there is a mission.
There is another mission which NASA has out there toward going toward rendezvous in January of 1999.
And we've discussed this maybe two years ago.
It's called the Near Mission for Near Earth Asteroid Rendezvous.
unidentified
Right.
richard c hoagland
Spacecraft was launched a couple years ago and goes through a long looping trajectory to get to where it's going to go because it had to make a plane change.
It rendezvous in January and goes into orbit around this little 15 or 20 mile sliver of rock called Eros, which is tumbling through space and is on a very elongated orbit that takes it around the sun every few years.
Now it turns out that Eros is probably the most tracked asteroid in astronomical history, and it used to form the basis of the scale of the solar system.
As it went by the Earth and through the inner solar system every few years, astronomers in the last century and in the early parts of this century would take pictures from different observatories and record the time.
And through good old trigonometric parallax, in other words, the width of the Earth, they would get a different direction slightly in space for two photographs taken of the asteroid at the same moment by celestial time.
They would then compare those differences on the photographic plates, and with good old trigonometry, they would establish how far Eros was from the telescopes, from the Earth.
By using Kepler's third law, they then could map out its trajectory to the whole inner solar system and thereby derive the scale.
Back when radar was first developed and NASA started bouncing radar beams off planets, they found a very weird anomaly.
The radar results did not match the Eros results.
Venus appeared to be closer or farther away.
Mars appeared to be closer or farther away.
It was topsy-turvy, and so there became a kind of a, like an edict came down, and the speed of light and its arbitrary limit at a fixed velocity was assumed by all future NASA experiments to be the wisdom, the way the physics worked.
And the Eros data from hundreds of years, literally 100 years or so, was thrown out.
Now NASA suddenly launches a mission to one asteroid in the whole panoply of 40,000 that are known that has this tremendous historical database.
And they're claiming publicly that they're going to just look at this asteroid.
Well, privately, I know there's a hidden agenda.
And I know from the science that what they're really doing, some of the experimenters, is when they put this little thing in orbit around Eros and track it, they're going to be monitoring the radio beacons from the spacecraft while they simultaneously take good old-fashioned photographic plates of the trajectory.
art bell
Can I ask a layman's question?
unidentified
Sure.
art bell
You remember that big panic they had about an object that was going to hit Earth in, what, 20 something or another?
richard c hoagland
No, the comet Swift Tuddle in 2161, yeah.
art bell
Right, okay.
richard c hoagland
Announced by Brian Marzen at Harvard.
art bell
Yeah, and everybody went into a great panic, and the day after they said, no, no, no, we're wrong.
unidentified
Yep.
art bell
Well, if you're right, could they be wrong?
unidentified
Yes.
Uh-oh.
richard c hoagland
See, this is where the rubber meets the road.
This is why Tom is on the show tonight, because what Tom's going to talk about is the engineering, literally, of reality, using this hyperdimensional physics and the fact that there's an in-crowd and an out-crowd, and the in-crowd is knowing it and using it, and the out-crowd doesn't know it even exists.
And the problem is the out-crowd is in control of our public policy, like trying to keep our satellites in orbit in November when the Leonid meteor shower is going to smash about 20% of them, according to.
art bell
That's really important.
Tom, being a nuclear engineer, though it's not exactly your field, if Richard is right about what we've discussed thus far, could they be wrong about this comet missing us by that amount?
Would you agree with that?
richard c hoagland
I would have to say that, you know, what conclusion you draw depends on what kind of model you apply.
unidentified
Richard has, I think, very accurately stated that.
art bell
Yes, if we're applying Richard's model, we get a different answer from what they have.
unidentified
And right now, what they really would say is, well, you know, our model has applied, but now we have cases where suddenly it doesn't fit.
It doesn't fit what's happening to the spacecraft.
It doesn't fit what's happening in some of the experiments, at least, on Earth itself.
richard c hoagland
And as Richard said, there's a very interesting thing about the two sets of data taken together.
unidentified
There are two ways you can have a gravitational change.
I'm using gravitational in the general relativity sense of just curvature of space-time.
richard c hoagland
You can have a global effect, that is, the sun could change its gravitational effects, the strength of it, for example.
unidentified
Let's say it changed the strength of its gravitational field.
Well, this wouldn't affect just the spacecraft out there.
This would affect all the planets and everything else.
richard c hoagland
I mean, you would have probably very appreciable results of that, clearly seeable in the solar system on the other planets.
Tom, let me stop you there.
Because the reason that John Anderson at JPL started tracking these spacecraft is because of exactly that effect.
There is well known in the astronomical literature going back a couple of hundred years after Uranus and Neptune were first found and that those planets themselves are not behaving according to the current laws of physics.
Now, for Uranus, that anomaly was used to predict where Neptune would be found, and lo and behold, it was found pretty close.
And for Neptune, the anomaly was used to predict where Pluto should be found, and lo and behold, Percival Lowell found, I'm sorry, Clyde Combo found Pluto in 1930, but now we know it was a wonderful accident because the planet's too small to cause the effect on Neptune that was in the literature.
So Anderson started tracking these spacecraft over long decades now with very high precision radio tracking in an effort to find out whether these anomalies were due to unseen planets way out there or by his own admission, whether the gravity model is wrong.
And he now has come to the conclusion that the gravity model is wrong.
Well, this is not trivial.
This is big, huge, headline-grabbing stuff.
unidentified
I agree.
richard c hoagland
Because it means, back to art, that when they confidently say, as Don Yeoman says, oh, it's going to miss us by 600,000 miles in 2161, no, they can't be that damn confident because the model is wrong.
unidentified
Well, let's put it this way.
I would say the model results are wrong because it doesn't agree with what's being observed.
There's a thing I'm trying to get at here.
I'm not just splitting hairs.
Okay, go ahead.
The gravitational effect, whether it's global, local, or whatever, is going to be involved with the curvature of space-time.
The gravity does that.
That's the whole basis of the interaction of gravitation and mass in the general relativity theory.
richard c hoagland
So what we're saying is that we have some effects, however, which tend to refute one another.
One says, well, it's getting stronger if I'm looking at it as a global effect.
And the other says, no, it's really getting weaker in what we measure on the surface of the Earth.
unidentified
Yep.
So I think you very accurately pointed out that we do have a contradiction here.
richard c hoagland
Now, what a contradiction usually involves is that something in your model is wrong or some other factor has entered that you're not taking into account at all.
You're just assuming it's in my normal model that I use and nothing else has intervened.
unidentified
You have one of two things occurring.
richard c hoagland
I'm just, you know, taking the problem as it occurs.
You have either something extremely dramatic happening and your model is now completely off base, or you have the intervention of an outside factor that you're not taking into account.
In other words, missing variables.
unidentified
So one of the two they have to have wrong.
richard c hoagland
Let me stop you there.
One of the things that Anderson and his guys are, they are very good.
They're world class, as Perot used to say, all right?
In their paper, which, by the way, is also linked to the new scientist article in Physics Review Letters, they talk about all the possibilities which could give us a synthetic anomaly.
In other words, an error that isn't really there.
Except one on planet one.
unidentified
Huh?
They missed one big one.
richard c hoagland
Okay.
unidentified
Well, they missed the one.
richard c hoagland
They listed all the ones they thought of.
unidentified
Yeah, the ones that they know about, they listed.
richard c hoagland
That's right.
So when you eliminate, as Sherlock Holmes used to say, when you eliminate the possible, you have to go for the impossible.
unidentified
That's correct.
richard c hoagland
What I would characterize, I'll try to characterize that a little bit more exactly, you see.
What I would characterize is say the factors that they considered, I would put that phrase in there, because if they're factors they didn't consider, then it means that they didn't consider the outside intervention at all, except what they knew about.
If it's something else, it was something they didn't know about.
art bell
Now, let me be clear.
Everybody's walking around this one.
You said they missed one big one, Tom.
unidentified
Yes, they did.
art bell
What did they miss?
unidentified
Okay.
richard c hoagland
Part of the thing that Richard pointed out, there's some terrible problems in electrodynamics.
unidentified
First of all, when Maxwell put together his theory, everybody believed in a material ether.
There was no question about it.
richard c hoagland
Space was considered by all parties to be filled with so-called luminiferous ether, a thin material filling all space.
And electrodynamics today, in spite of anything anybody tells you, every university in the Western world is teaching electrodynamics where the material ether is still present in the equations.
They still assume that at every point in space, there is a unit north pole, and that's a magnetic charge mass.
There is a unit positive electrical charge, a coulomb, and that has some mass.
unidentified
And there's a unit mass, a kilogram of mass at that point in space.
And those equations describe how that point mass reacts.
art bell
And they assume that's a universal law.
richard c hoagland
Yes, and you see, the Michelson-Morley experiment destroyed all those point coulombs and all those point-unit masses and so forth.
But they never changed an equation.
unidentified
Not a single one.
So what we're teaching still assumes the material ether in every university.
It's present in the field concept.
The idea of a force field, a force contains mass.
It's DDT of MV, so you have mass present to have a force.
That's well-known Foundations Physics.
You know, people like Feynman and Wheeler tried to correct it for that.
They failed, but they had a magnificent try to get rid of that field concept in space because force fields do not exist in space.
richard c hoagland
And since 59, I think the physics community understands it, but as Feynman said, it's so useful, we keep using it.
unidentified
They have some very flawed models.
richard c hoagland
Richard is very much within the ballgame there when he's saying that the models have some serious errors on them.
unidentified
They indeed do.
richard c hoagland
If you have errors in fundamental electrodynamics, which you do, terrible errors, then that permeates everything you're doing because they just spread the electrodynamics into all the other systems.
art bell
Well, all right, if I understand all we're talking about correctly.
Richard, question for you.
They find a quasar which they declare to be at 15 billion light years out.
How far off could that be?
richard c hoagland
Oh, it could be thousands of percent.
art bell
Thousands of percent?
richard c hoagland
Because of exactly what you said half an hour ago.
A little bitty error in the solar system propagates to astronomical errors at astronomical distances.
And I don't feel anyone saying this.
I mean, this is a whole alternative cosmology.
art bell
You know, a lot of people are sitting out there right now who are creationists who are saying, right on, Richard, do you realize the allies that you just picked up?
richard c hoagland
Well, okay, but they may not be right either.
The point is, in science, you keep an open mind.
You look for evidence and data and trend curves and predictions, and you're ready to revise at a moment's notice on the basis of new information.
unidentified
We got new information.
art bell
Yeah, you're right.
That's science.
That's real science.
Hold on, you two, and we'll be right back.
We're about to talk about new weapons here, too.
But I really am right about that.
People have been screeching, creationists, for a long time, that things are not as far out as we think they are.
And Richard, in a scientific way, is saying exactly the same thing.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Several New Electrodynamics Possibilities 00:02:50
art bell
Dive into kind of a sensitive area with Tom Bearden and Richard C. Holland.
And Tom, I know that you know something about weapons systems.
You've done some work in that area.
What can you tell us theoretically, or even from a science fiction perspective, which people can read in between the lines of, about what might be possible if what Richard says is correct?
richard c hoagland
Well, what's possible is, first of all, you get several different new things in electrodynamics.
And by the way, part of this, you can go on the Los Alamos National Laboratory website, download a paper, for example, by Rodriguez and Liu, and several other papers, and they will give you a summary of some of the new work in electrodynamics that shows the use of longitudinal waves rather than the conventional old transverse waves.
unidentified
Now, when you use longitudinal waves, you get some extraordinary capabilities.
richard c hoagland
One of the things you get, a pure longitudinal wave, if you can make one pure, normally if you make one, you make it with some residual, some noise hanging on it, that's transverse stuff.
It has some, it's a messy signal.
But if you can make a pure one, it goes at infinite velocity and has infinite energy.
So, of course, they don't make that, but they make waves that go faster than the speed of light, and they make waves which don't have the proper energy that you would predict from the normal electrodynamics we all were taught.
For example, Nymphs and colleagues transmitted with quantum tunneling and through a barrier and a waveguide, they transmitted Mozart's 40th Symphony as something like 4.7 times the speed of light.
So, we need to, first of all, get completely out of our minds the idea that the old idea that's been so ingrained that the speed of light is an absolute limit.
unidentified
It is not.
It depends on what else you're using.
richard c hoagland
If you use longitudinal waves, the speed of light suddenly becomes quite variable, if you mean the speed of the wave that you produce.
So, you already have a new physics the moment you go into the use of these longitudinal waves.
Well, several nations of the earth, and the most predominant one is done under the auspices of what used to be called the KGB, and I'll still use that term because the leopard did not change its spot.
Defector Reveals Weather Modification 00:02:49
art bell
That's right.
richard c hoagland
It's done in Russia, but under the rigid control of the KGB.
unidentified
Now, they've been doing this for decades, and they've highly weaponized it.
art bell
Doing what?
unidentified
Making longitudinal wave electromagnetic weapons.
richard c hoagland
Let me, Tom, let me stop you there.
art bell
No, let me stop both of you.
I interviewed.
richard c hoagland
I'm trying to define these waves.
art bell
I interviewed the top-rank military defector from the Soviet Union, the biggest, highest-ranking defector in the history of defections from the Soviet Union.
And he said there is, in fact, he named the program that there is a program the Russians have been working on for some time now involving waves of the kind you're talking about that produce seismic events on Earth.
Seismic weapons.
richard c hoagland
Well, they've had those for years.
unidentified
I'm sorry?
And they've had those for years.
art bell
Okay, you're both doubling here, one at a time.
Tom?
unidentified
They have had that weapon for years and years.
art bell
That's what he said.
unidentified
They have, yes.
They have had lots more.
That's just one of the small ones.
richard c hoagland
And weather modifications.
unidentified
They've been doing weather modification.
richard c hoagland
The first weather modification they did over North America was in 1967.
The signature was perfectly round holes appearing in clouds, and they gave us the anomalous winter we had, that very rigorous winter we had that year.
They opened up full-time weather engineering over North America and then spread to much of the rest of the world on July the 4th, 1976.
That was their bicentennial gift to the U.S.
unidentified
They have a sense of humor.
Yeah.
richard c hoagland
Tom, hang on a second.
Remember when Russia offered to put out the fires in Indonesia and they offered to do it by creating monsoons?
art bell
A cyclone, yes.
unidentified
Cyclones?
Yes, yes.
richard c hoagland
It's this physics and technology.
art bell
Yeah, they said they had the technology to do it now.
I mean, there was no question about it.
They were simply seeking permission to go ahead and test it, create a cyclone, and put out the fires.
richard c hoagland
This was, in fact, part of the geopolitics going on behind the scenes because it's kind of like showing your cards to the other guy who knows you got them, but now you're showing them to the rest of the world.
And, of course, controlling the weather makes nuclear weapons look like matchsticks.
Interfering With Waves 00:08:48
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
Well, in 1975, some of these weapons were so frightful that even the Russians got frightened.
Brezhnev called them, he used the phrase more frightful than the mind of man had ever imagined.
richard c hoagland
And he actually had Gromyko in that year introduce to the United Nations a draft treaty to stop the production of new weapons of mass destruction again.
unidentified
You know, he used that phrase.
richard c hoagland
And what he was referring to was these waves and these kinds of weapons using longitudinal waves.
art bell
Are these what other people call scalar waves?
richard c hoagland
Well, a scalar wave is a little bit different kind of critter, but you start with longitudinal waves to get it.
A scalar potential, common O voltage in electromagnetics, if we go back to Whitaker in 1903 and 204, we find out that it's made of longitudinal waves.
art bell
First of all, I don't understand what a longitudinal wave is.
unidentified
Let me explain that then exactly.
And I'll do it simply.
richard c hoagland
If I'm moving along in a straight line and I want to vibrate, there's several modes that I can vibrate in.
unidentified
I can vibrate left or right, and we might call that the Y direction.
Okay.
richard c hoagland
I can, or X direction, let's say, I can vibrate vertically, and we would call that the Y direction up and down.
And then I could be a crazy fool, and I could rush forward a little bit faster, and then a little bit slower, and a little bit faster, and a little bit slower.
unidentified
I could velocity modulate.
I could keep changing my velocity, surge back and forth as I went along.
Sure.
And that would be a longitudinal wave.
richard c hoagland
Sound waves.
unidentified
It's like a sound wave.
Exactly like a sound wave.
art bell
How do you get a weapons application here?
richard c hoagland
Well, it's real easy.
Whitaker in 1904 showed us that all the other stuff's made from these longitudinal waves and they're interferometry.
unidentified
That scalar potentials make the whole thing.
richard c hoagland
That paper, by the way, sparked a thing that's a little obscure, but it is well known in cavity theory and so forth, waveguides, called superpotential theory.
unidentified
And so he showed that we can do away with all the waves and all that stuff and replace it all with potential functions anyway.
richard c hoagland
Now, those two papers, those two key Whitaker papers, for any physicists listening tonight, are attached to my paper on the web through Art Bell site and Enterprise.
You just click on them.
They're underlined.
You go right to Whitaker, and there you are.
The full Whitaker papers, Tom.
And Maxwell's original 900-page treatise, I've been informed from my folks tonight, is about halfway through the copying.
unidentified
Good.
richard c hoagland
By next week, we should be able to post it on the web in its original pristine 1873 first edition.
unidentified
Good.
richard c hoagland
Including the 20 quaternions, which described the hyperdimensional physics originally that we're discussing tonight.
unidentified
Well, what happened is if you use the longitudinal, basically to put it real simply, if you take, you make longitudinal waves, which you can make with plasmas and some other things, plasma gas tubes and so forth.
richard c hoagland
There are several processes you can use to do this.
And then if you interfere these longitudinal waves in that interference zone where they meet and conflict with each other, you produce ordinary stuff, the ordinary stuff we talk about.
unidentified
The transverse waves, you can make it either cold or hot.
You can make heat energy or you can make cooling energy.
You make it diverge, which is heat, or you make it converge, go the other way, which is cooling.
And you can do that at a distance.
richard c hoagland
Tom, Tom, let me stop you.
Art, remember El Nino?
unidentified
Yeah, of course.
richard c hoagland
Remember the warming all around the Pacific and around the Galapagos?
art bell
Yes, sir.
richard c hoagland
And remember the sudden, incredibly cool waters that miraculously appeared in just days?
And the cool waters in the Gulf of Mexico that you reported on this show?
art bell
Virtually devoid of life, yes.
richard c hoagland
Those are indicative of some kind of technological application of the kind of wave hyperdimensional technology that Tom is talking about.
art bell
No kidding.
unidentified
And it gets better.
Longitudinal waves don't interact greatly over mass.
They interact fairly weakly, but they do interact.
But because they interact so weakly, they'll go great distances through mass.
richard c hoagland
In other words, you can pass longitudinal waves right through the ocean, right through the earth.
unidentified
And you can interfere with them on the other side.
art bell
So, Tom, let me be clear.
You're saying the Russians are, and for a long time, have been doing this.
richard c hoagland
Yes, they deployed the first major weapons, not the first research test, but the first major weapon was deployed in April 1963.
And the first test they used was to kill the USS Thresher, atomic submarine, underneath the water off the east coast of the United States.
unidentified
What?
They killed the Thresher, and one day later they put a huge burst underneath the water 100 miles north of Puerto Rico.
richard c hoagland
That burst was sighted by the crew and folks on board one of our jet airliners and was reported to the FBI and the Coast Guard.
unidentified
You had a wall, a cone of water rise up about a half a mile high, turn into a mushroom, and fall back into the water.
There was one test one day to kill the latest attack submarine we had.
Second, the next day was to show what you could do as a giant burst underneath the water.
richard c hoagland
What they do to engineer the weather is very simple.
unidentified
What you do is you pick a place and you create a little hotter air.
You create a thinner air, which means the air expands and gives you a low pressure.
What the footprint on the ground is a low pressure.
You create a low area.
richard c hoagland
Then you cool it in another area and you create denser air, which weighs more per cubic centimeter and has a greater pressure on the ground.
unidentified
So we would call that a high-pressure area.
richard c hoagland
And by doing this and then steering that place you're heating and the place you're cooling, by steering the hot spots and the cold spots, you can actually entrain the jet streams and steer them.
unidentified
So what they really do is they steer the weather.
art bell
Con, Tom, your background is that of having been a colonel.
unidentified
Lieutenant Colonel, yes, retired.
art bell
Retired Lieutenant Colonel.
unidentified
Got to use that word retired.
I am the active heart.
art bell
I understand that.
But I'm bound to ask you if you, I mean, what you just said is so provocative that I've got to ask you whether you know this whether you know this from first-hand information.
unidentified
I would rather not answer that question.
richard c hoagland
What I will answer is the fact that I'm very sure about what I'm talking about in the Soviet Union and three other countries, one of which is not us, by the way.
unidentified
I wish it were.
art bell
But one of which is us.
unidentified
In other words, no, no, one of which is not us.
art bell
Are we not doing these things, Tom?
unidentified
Well, I would rather not even address that issue.
richard c hoagland
What I would rather talk about is the fact that the Russians have them for sure, and we had better get with it.
unidentified
You know, if your other guy's got a sword and a shield, you ought to at least look around for a long knife.
art bell
Yeah, oh, yeah, I hear you.
unidentified
So the point is the weapons do exist, and they've been used.
We haven't had normal weather over North America since July the 4th, 1976.
We're not going to have it again.
richard c hoagland
By the way, to touch up what Richard was talking about, since you can put the things under the water, instead of having a big burst, instead of pulsing your weapons, what you do is you just put the beams to cross and gradually heat the water if you want to heat it, or you gradually cool it if you want to cool it.
So you can touch up both El Nino and La Nina, both of the major things in heating and cooling the water that do wind up having large-scale effects on the weather.
unidentified
So that's another little trick you can do.
richard c hoagland
If you put the energy and start to create the energy inside a fault zone, for example, as the energy builds up, the rocks are piezoelectric, so they expand mechanically as you put more energy into them.
unidentified
And so gradually the rocks will then slip and you'll have an earthquake.
richard c hoagland
If you really get desperate and you need an earthquake real bad, you just pulse the energy and put it in the rock, whether there's a fault zone or not, and it'll blast its way in there.
unidentified
The earthquake weapon follows straightforward.
richard c hoagland
Once you can do longitudinal wave interferometry, you can do that at a distance into the earth or through the earth or in the ocean.
Now, later in the morning, you know, probably the next hour, we're going to talk about some real environmental threats that we're going to experience in the next couple of months.
20% Of Satellites At Risk 00:03:39
richard c hoagland
The Leonid meteor shower and the NORAD alert, that 20% of the 500 satellites we depend on for our life and our economy and our almost existence now are going to go down.
They're going to be killed by little tiny flecks of dust moving at 30, 40, 50 miles per second.
art bell
I guess 1998 and 99 are due to be the biggest November 17th.
richard c hoagland
I mean, we're looking at a major global economic meltdown if 20% of the satellites get killed upstairs.
art bell
Is that really likely to occur?
richard c hoagland
That's what the NORAD numbers are, and that's what the AV week numbers are, and that's what the quiet discussions are behind the scenes.
art bell
You know, I'm going to, it's not just NORAD, but what about the satellites that carry my voice?
I mean, we've got Y2K, and if that doesn't get them, the meteor shower will, huh?
richard c hoagland
Well, I am looking at a chart here provided by one of my cable people tonight.
It turns out that two satellites, I'm going to give you the names of them, okay?
Two satellites, it's here in my pile.
I know I had it in my pile a moment ago.
Two satellites carry most of the television traffic, all right?
art bell
Oh, yeah, Galaxy 5.
richard c hoagland
G5 and C4 Carry half of the about 24 of the contemporary cable channels.
art bell
Correct.
richard c hoagland
If we lose, it goes dark.
unidentified
You know how you lose CNN?
Do you know?
richard c hoagland
And this is my point.
There's no transponder space, so you can't see it and can't move to some of the satellites.
art bell
I knew it.
Richard, you know where I am right now?
unidentified
Yeah.
G5.
richard c hoagland
Oh, great.
art bell
That's how your voice is getting to the people.
G5.
richard c hoagland
It won't pass November 17th unless something is done.
Now, this comes back to what Tom just said.
In the black world, in multinational laboratories, there have been developed some extraordinary hyperdimensional weapons/slash tools, which if they came out of the black world and were applied to the white world to saving our asses in November, we would basically get through unscathed.
And what we wanted to do tonight was to let people know that this is not theory.
This is real physics, real technology, and a real problem that needs to have this applied to in the not-too-distant future.
art bell
Yeah, but look, if the Russians have the power to destroy a submarine beneath the sea, if the Russians have the power to change the weather, and they've been doing this, and Tom just confirms that sort of almost in an offhand way.
unidentified
Well, that's the person.
art bell
How in God's name can we not know about it?
richard c hoagland
Well, when you say we, who's we, Kimazabi?
art bell
Well, we is the general public.
richard c hoagland
All Americans who pay our taxes and elect presidents who don't run things admitted by various intelligence people now.
You don't inform the president.
art bell
Yeah, but look, to most people, this is Buck Rogers, period.
It's not real.
It can't be real.
To the average American would more easily believe the president of the United States right now than he would that the Russians can do these kinds of things.
Are you sure?
richard c hoagland
How do the Russians have offered to create for Singapore cyclones on demand?
art bell
Well, I'm amazed at that.
I looked at that in the news and I said, what the hell?
And I talked about that for two weeks and it did.
And it never hit the mainstream press.
But it was a real report.
Incident Of Remote Cooling 00:15:23
richard c hoagland
Let me give you an incident that might shed a little light on it.
unidentified
Some years ago, I put in a publication that you could cool things.
richard c hoagland
You know, you could cool materials and all kinds of things at a distance.
I was called every kind of nut for saying that you could do that, and you could also dissolve materials, turn them into liquids and so forth.
I was considered your, in the intelligence community, I was considered your local real nut.
unidentified
Yes.
richard c hoagland
Well, some years after that, that wasn't the last end of that story.
Some years after that, working with an aerospace firm, foreign aerospace firm, which must remain nameless, I furnished them an address that appeared on the internet or some Soviet scientists who were scrambling trying to find something to make a living and set up a company and so forth.
art bell
Got to do this quick.
We're coming to the top of the air.
richard c hoagland
Okay, so to make a long story short, they sent in an engineer very fluent in Russian, and these Russian scientists showed him what's called coal molding.
unidentified
You could put this scalar charge on the piece of metal.
The metal would turn liquid at room temperature without heating.
You simply dissolve the lattice bonds.
All you do is space conjugate them.
That's what you do technically.
Space conjugate.
They turn it into a liquid at room temperature without heating.
Pour it in a mold, walk away, let the charge die away after a while, and it turns back into a normal metal.
So they could use this to mold the metal without heating.
art bell
That's incredible.
All right, everybody, hold tight right where you are.
Oh, my.
I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
Or are we instead going to blow up submarines under the ocean and change and screw up our weather?
richard c hoagland
Well, one of the things I've been very hopeful of is that enough of this stuff will bleed out, you know, that our own scientific community will start to really pay attention, which they finally started doing.
The fact that Los Alamos National Laboratory is carrying a whole series of papers dealing with longitudinal waves and the ones that are imperfect, they call them undistorted progressive waves, and their characteristic is really revolutionary.
unidentified
So I'm delighted that they're doing that.
Now, if they'll really take that seriously and go ahead and apply it, you don't have to build weapons with everything.
Okay, let the weaponeers do the weapons.
richard c hoagland
Meanwhile, it has tremendous applications in things like energy and medicine and things that can do a lot of benefit for people.
Certainly, if you can clear a hole through a meteor shower or little particles that are going to do you a lot of damage to your satellites, that would be a very useful thing to do.
unidentified
I would like to see them do it.
richard c hoagland
Either us develop the stuff and do it, or, you know, the Soviets or the Russians who already have it, do it anyway.
You see, this falls under absolutely squarely, and probably for the first time in many, many, many years, of a real good, solid case for national security.
Because if tomorrow, let's say Clinton were to get on television and say, we've discovered a terrorist group that's going to take out 20% of our satellites, don't you think Americans would get a little pissed that we didn't do anything about it?
art bell
Well, yes, absolutely.
richard c hoagland
And what Tom and I are saying emphatically is this is not theory.
This technology exists.
There are examples over and over again of its being used in the past several decades.
It's just so deep in the deep black that those guys have to be dragged kicking and screaming to even use it for a purpose like this because they would rather keep a secret.
Secrecy in this game is power.
And in this case, there is a way they could use it and never reveal that it exists.
And ultimately, everybody would breathe a huge sigh of relief, and then we could get on with life.
art bell
Now that I've had, I'm still, you know, I'm stuck way back on, the Russians blew up the Thresher.
I'm stuck back on explosions underwater, creating virtual mushroom clouds above water.
The whole scalar wave.
unidentified
Oh, they've been doing that for decades.
art bell
Yeah, I know.
Well, I'm still stuck back there.
They've been doing that for decades.
richard c hoagland
Mark, do you remember a gentleman named Nikola Tesla?
unidentified
I do.
richard c hoagland
Nikola Tesla's technology was the same technology we're discussing tonight.
Nikola Tesla was the first modern technologist to discover the so-called Colymer standing wave, which is nothing other than Tom's longitudinal wave.
art bell
Well, what's more important, hiding this technology from the public or averting a meteor shower that might take Art Bell and HBO off the air?
richard c hoagland
Well, it's even much more serious because if all of the world goes dark television-wise, your wired world disappears.
unidentified
I hear you.
richard c hoagland
I've talked to cable people in the last few days, and they're telling me that when I was running Enterprise in Washington, where the name came from, was this school experiment that we gave to Dunbar Senior High on Capitol Hill.
NASA came over, NASA Gotter came over and gave the guys, gave the kids a satellite system and a dish and engineers, and they set it up and all that.
And I used to tune through the bands and found that there was a tremendous oversubscription.
We had satellites in orbit that literally had just dark transponders or bars 24 hours a day.
That no longer exists.
The pricing for a transponder used to be 400 bucks an hour.
Now it's over $1,000.
Because, like anything, if something is scarce, people can get more money for it.
So if you lose 20% of the satellites, there's no place for those customers to go.
CNN has no other satellite it can beg, borrow, or steal.
And the replacement rate, if you want to launch from the ground new satellites, takes a year or two to build and to launch, and you have to build the launch vehicles, and they're backed up on orders for that.
So we're talking about a major economic global meltdown of people basically being kicked back not to the 20th century, but to the 19th century in many cases.
high technology now depends critically on what goes through space over our heads how do we out all of this publicly I mean, we're doing this now.
unidentified
What else can we do?
richard c hoagland
Well, that's one of the things this conference on the weekend is going to do.
I brought together Tom and Tom.
I couldn't find Harry, so we'll have to do with Tom and Dick.
So we can lay out the problems and the options and the physics.
It is time that this technology went from the black to the white.
That the Cold War is over in most cases.
And in much of this, the major hold on us is the secrecy itself.
You know, that's what Francis Barwood was running against.
unidentified
I knew.
richard c hoagland
Too much secrecy run amok.
Stephen Greer and I have been in very close consultation in the last few weeks.
On Friday night, you're going to have him on the show talking about another area of secret technology where Tom Burton has exquisite experience and expertise, the so-called myth of free energy.
Tom?
unidentified
Well, yes.
richard c hoagland
As a matter of fact, the common assumption in electrodynamics is you can freely change the energy of a system anytime you want to.
unidentified
They call that regauging.
richard c hoagland
And if you look in the Bible, so to speak, for classical electrodynamics by Jackson, you find out that they did that.
As a matter of fact, to get the systems where you wouldn't have free energy, they regauged the system twice to force it into equilibrium.
unidentified
And that's what they put out, the modified equations.
richard c hoagland
You can look right in Jackson and see.
unidentified
It's called applying the Lorentz condition.
Lorentz taught us how to do that.
art bell
Tom, I'm going to ask you a straight-on question.
I'd appreciate a straight-on answer.
Over the years, I've had a lot of talk on this program about free energy.
unidentified
Yes.
art bell
A lot of talk.
And talk, until you're sick of talk.
I have had a standing challenge, and I would like to give it to you now and tell me, you can tell me why it hasn't been met.
Somebody needs to bring me a free energy device, or any, I would even settle for a device that simply gives more energy than it receives.
Something, a toy.
Let's say a toy that would put the energizer bunny six feet under.
If I could see something like that, I could believe.
I haven't seen so much as an over-unity toy.
If there's free energy, where the hell is it?
unidentified
Well, it's out there, and in fact, it's already known in the literature.
Let me give you some examples.
Anti-Stokes emission is always over-unity.
art bell
I don't know what that is.
richard c hoagland
Okay, it's a kind of emission where you have a certain kind of medium.
It occurs in chemistry and it occurs in certain particular suspensions of particles.
If you put in so much energy, like you fire a pulse of a laser in there, the darn medium gives you back out a tremendous burst of energy.
unidentified
And by the way, the common name for this, they use a funny name for it.
Litakoff started, I guess, is negative absorption.
Which is all this radiation.
art bell
All right, this is all very interesting, but where there's more energy back out than you put in.
unidentified
And for example, Lewandi has several patents on this.
He has a nice paper in Nature, and the experiment's fairly simple.
You take a little beaker, you shine, you put in some fluorescent dye, you hit it with a little laser pulse, you get a little warm glow.
Then you do one little change, one simple thing.
richard c hoagland
Into that beaker of water of solution, you now put in some titanium dioxide particles.
unidentified
That's the main ingredient in white paint.
So, and now you come back and you hit it with that same little laser pulse again, and you don't get a little warm glow now.
You get a violent burst of light that fills the whole room.
It's called lacing without population inversion.
art bell
All right, I don't understand a word of that.
When we get back, I'm going to try the same question all over again.
I'm going to take on faith what Tom just told me.
And all I'm asking again is: if any of this is true, and I'm not doubting it, I'm just saying, where is even a simple little toy that we can mass-market and change the way the world thinks about energy?
It's not such a tough request, or is it?
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Right.
richard c hoagland
If you were to take, let's say, a book or something heavy on your console and hold it straight out in your hands, how long could you sit there and hold it straight out before it got heavier and heavier and your muscles got tired and it began to vibrate and you dropped it?
unidentified
I don't know.
art bell
Is this before or after the near-deck experience?
richard c hoagland
It doesn't matter, okay?
art bell
All right, not long.
unidentified
Not long.
Okay.
richard c hoagland
Now, take a little tiny magnet.
Any little magnet you can pick up, one of these refrigerator magnets, okay?
unidentified
Right.
richard c hoagland
And put a paperclip on it.
unidentified
Right.
richard c hoagland
So that the paperclip is hanging over empty space.
unidentified
Right.
richard c hoagland
How long will the paperclip remain attached to the magnet?
unidentified
Well.
richard c hoagland
Held up against gravity.
unidentified
Virtually indefinitely.
art bell
Indefinitely, yeah.
unidentified
Why?
richard c hoagland
Where is the damn energy coming from?
It's not in the little magnet.
art bell
Look, that's easily a third-level question.
You don't ask me those.
I ask you those.
unidentified
No, no.
These are not tricked.
richard c hoagland
The idea is that we have been run by authority figures who've been telling us the world works a certain way.
They've been lying to us.
Most of them have been lying to themselves because they haven't gone back to Maxwell.
They haven't been able to go back to Maxwell.
But in fact, the world doesn't work the way the theoreticians have been telling us.
And therefore, when you try to take a device to market to patent, if the theoreticians are the gatekeepers, oh, it can't work because the laws say it doesn't work, forget reality.
Forget the fact that the magnet is going to hold the vaporclip up forever.
So the energy's got to be coming from some other unknown source, non-dimensional source.
The device can't work.
You don't get the patent.
You don't get the money.
You don't get it to market.
It doesn't get into the hands of people.
Period.
End of discussion.
And that's why what Steve is going to present to you on Friday night is so mind-blowing.
Because you've got a bunch of people who want to basically give it away.
So it gets into the hands of people, including one art bell.
art bell
Well, that's nice.
I believe when I see Richard, they have these free energy symposiums and demonstrations all over the country.
I hear about them all the time, but not one has turned into one.
You know, they always have a little black box, and unfortunately, they don't want to give away their secrets, so you can't look in there.
richard c hoagland
Well, these guys, I was told, and that's why I came to you with this, were different.
They are willing to provide this for free and to give you a damn one that lets run and run and run and run and run.
So hold Greer's feet to the fire Friday night.
art bell
Boy, now you're cooking.
Or Greer is, or whoever this is, is cooking.
That's what I need.
unidentified
Let me give you a little insight into that.
We have a group of eight guys that I'm working with in the energy field.
We filed several patents.
We do not have a working model.
I'll say that right off the top at the front.
A working model of a free energy machine.
We've still filed the patents because we have the processes.
richard c hoagland
Now, what we intend to do when we do have a working model, and we intend to have one, when we do have one, it's not sufficient just to produce a model.
unidentified
What we will do, there is a thing called a government-certified test laboratory.
Yes.
All the aerospace firms use this.
When you fulfill a government contract, they don't want just your guys to say, oh, it tests great.
richard c hoagland
They have an independent certified lab with excellent test engineers who specialize in that field.
And they do the testing, and then they certify it to the government that this thing tested this fashion today.
unidentified
So they don't take just your word.
richard c hoagland
They get this independent certified test lab who gives you what specs it's tested to and the procedures that are used, the calibration of the instrument, everything.
Now, the proper procedure, as far as we're concerned, in our group of eight guys, is when we do succeed in having a working model, we have out here in Huntsville a very excellent laboratory that's a government-certified test laboratory with an international reputation, Wiley, Wiley Test Labs.
Patenting Innovation 00:04:40
richard c hoagland
And our first step after having the working model and filing the patent will be to stop at Wiley Labs and pay for an independent certification test.
unidentified
The reason is very simple.
richard c hoagland
That test will stand up in court and it's accepted by the U.S. Patent Office.
unidentified
So that's the way to proceed.
Forget the secrecy, and I've got a secret gimmick here that nobody knows to do it.
Do it straightforward.
richard c hoagland
If you understand how it works, and many of the inventors don't, even when they succeed from time to time, explain it the best way you can.
unidentified
Have it tested in a certified test laboratory.
And they're going to test inputs and outputs.
That's exactly what they're going to test.
How much energy you've got to put in?
How much do you have to get out?
That's right.
richard c hoagland
And they're going to certify it that with the state-of-the-art instruments and state-of-the-art test engineers, this thing tested that way today to all the specifications that apply.
When you get that, you've got something that you can go to the U.S. Patent Office in, and they will accept that and grant you a patent.
unidentified
And that's exactly the way we plan to do it.
richard c hoagland
And I would recommend that all the other inventors who are legitimate and not trying to do a stock skim, my goodness, if we'd wanted to just get well, you know, we could have got rich a long time ago by selling stock and, you know, making a nice smooth statement and all this kind of stuff.
unidentified
We're not going to do that.
We have a closely held corporation.
This stock is not for sale.
art bell
Tom, this is one of the things that has always bothered me.
We are a capitalistic country.
We're basically greedy.
Some said during the 80s, greed is good.
I mean, that's the way we are, whether we like it or not.
We love to make a lot of money, and anybody who would come up with this would be a gazillionaire.
unidentified
Of course, if you do it legitimately, you don't really have to worry about the money.
richard c hoagland
Now, what you do have to worry about, I hate to mention the C-word, but there is a C-word to be mentioned in this area.
Up until about 10, 15 years ago, you could get yourself killed real easy in this country.
art bell
Well, and so you're going to send me a machine, huh?
unidentified
I will when I get one.
art bell
Well, no, I mean, I mean, here's Richard saying that Stephen Greer has one.
unidentified
Or has it been a good one?
richard c hoagland
Well, the engineering group does it.
The engineering group that he's involved with has one, and hopefully they're going to make more.
They're going to send me one too, okay?
art bell
All right, there's already enough suits coming out to perump, as it is.
unidentified
Don't laugh.
art bell
I'm serious.
If what you're saying is real, then the danger is real.
richard c hoagland
Yeah, but the visibility is realer.
The problem has been, and I've been trying to tell these free energy folks for years, if you try to be greedy and try to make a billion dollars in your basement in your spare time, it will never work.
A lot of times, sometimes it's the inventor, but sometimes it's not the inventor.
unidentified
Let me shed a little light on that.
Quite often, the inventor to keep going, you know, it's just like a scientist.
All science is patronized, and so are inventors.
Somebody funds this stuff.
Sure.
And he's got a backer.
Well, a lot of your backers are greedy as can be.
And, you know, they don't understand anything scientific, but they want to make that billion dollars tomorrow, and they don't mind engaging in a stock scam.
richard c hoagland
So you've got a terrible problem if you have a backer and suddenly turn around and find out this guy doesn't care where it works or not.
unidentified
What he wants to do is sell stock.
art bell
So you're telling me that you're telling me there have been so many frauds that you're making the case that when something real comes along, you won't even recognize it.
It's ignored.
unidentified
Well, and the other problem here is by the guys who specialize in going around clearing something up and making a stock.
art bell
Okay, and that might be true in the sense that I have always said, and I'll say it again now, that if person X, with absolutely what he considered to be irrefutable proof, came forward and got in a podium and said, here's the real story of how Kennedy was killed.
It would simply be piled on the thousands of theories that are already out there.
And nobody would pay any attention to it whatsoever.
unidentified
That's correct.
richard c hoagland
And how long, Art, has it taken me, and how many shows have we done before you get mathematicians and physicists commenting on this paper saying, you know, he may really be on to something.
art bell
Yeah, that's true.
richard c hoagland
Now, in the world of C, you know, the suppression world, you don't go to the inventor.
You don't threaten to break his legs.
What you do is you go to the money sources who might provide him the money, who usually have a lot of money, and you say, look, if you put money into this, you're going to lose your money over here.
art bell
All right, look, we're at the top of the arrow.
Cell Time Reversal 00:09:22
art bell
You're going to have to hold it right there.
I want everybody to get up to my website, www.artbell.com.
You have got to see this book signing in Denver and the 777 photos.
They're totally awesome.
unidentified
All right.
art bell
In some markets, back with Richard C. Hoakland.
The headlines of this program ought to be the weather control statements, now verified, the weapons statements.
Can you imagine our thresher blown up that way that long ago?
This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified
The machine has to get...
And it did.
So can the technology be done based on that experiment?
richard c hoagland
Of course it can be done.
unidentified
It can be done electro gravitationally, and the key is electrodynamics.
But you've got to take into account a whole missing half of electrodynamics that Maxwell omitted.
He omitted the part that splits off and goes down in the nucleus and generates that Newtonian third law reaction.
richard c hoagland
And that's what Whitaker supplies.
unidentified
And Whitaker shows you what the two parts are.
All right.
art bell
And you gentlemen now say that all of this has application in medicine as well, don't you?
unidentified
Yes.
Again, I did about 14 years' work.
That was a terrible thing to break, on the priori effort that occurred in France, funded by the French government.
By the way, it's in the hard French literature, so it's there.
Anybody can go check to see that this actually occurred.
Priority discovered a very remarkable way to heal.
richard c hoagland
Basically, it turns out, to make a long story short, if you, in theory we have today for time reversal of waves, if you pump with transverse waves and you have a nonlinear mass, and it'll respond to another input wave that you put in, it'll respond by generating a sort of a crawfish wave that'll back up exactly where this other wave came through space, even through a very torturous route.
Like a mirror image.
unidentified
It's retro-reflection, but very precise retro-reflection.
And it'll do it at an awful long distance, too.
It'll just appear everywhere in space back there that this other wave came and occupied.
richard c hoagland
It turns out, after 14 years' work, that if you pump a living cell, the mass, with longitudinal waves, not with transverse waves, what you do is you do not make this reversed wave.
unidentified
You reverse the mass itself.
Now, in biology, that's called a de-differentiation, going back to an earlier state.
And what you do is you just back the cell back up to when it was an earlier and healthy state.
Now, this thing actually worked.
He worked on it all through the, and demonstrated in hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of lab experiments with eminent scientists working with him under rigorous controls.
richard c hoagland
For example, it was reported to the French Academy of Sciences by Robert Courier, the head of the biology section of the French Academy.
unidentified
And Potruzel worked with him, who was a world-renowned parasitologist.
So these were excellent scientists of first caliber working with Priori.
And nobody could understand how this thing was working.
And that's what he was doing.
He was making longitudinal waves and pumping the whole body, all the cells in the body.
Well, if it was a normal cell, it just got a little younger.
That's okay.
But if it was a diseased cell, it would back up, genetics and all.
He cured arteriosclerosis.
He cured cancer, drafted terminal tumors on the lab animals.
He cured infectious diseases, all kinds of things.
And after looking at that, that's what it turned out to be.
He was making longitudinal waves.
richard c hoagland
And when you plump longitudinal waves, you can time reverse the mass.
art bell
And I suppose that we get to the exact same C word when we ask where's...
unidentified
No, you don't.
There's not really, so far as I know, not a conspiracy.
richard c hoagland
What there is is the standard thing that goes in the scientific community, not invented here, and it's the greatest scientific jealousy you ever heard of.
unidentified
And suppression comes from the dogma in science.
It's not a conspiracy from without that says you're not going to do this.
richard c hoagland
It says science itself, the people who would no longer be the experts, react not kindly to that at all.
unidentified
And so the scientists suppressed it.
richard c hoagland
There is a stunning paper trail on this, including the politics of the French Assembly and the premier.
See, Priori was a veteran of World War II.
He joined the resistance.
He was an Italian inventor who worked with radar.
And he got, he made very good friends with a whole bunch of French folks that then wound up being in charge of the government in the 50s and 60s.
unidentified
Well, he had some, what happened is he was captured when Italy sort of began to bow out of the war.
The Germans didn't treat him too kindly.
richard c hoagland
And so they took him back to France and put him into slave labor, although he was an Italian radar engineer.
unidentified
And then they decided they were going to kill him.
Well, the French underground had a raid and freed him, set him free, and some other folks in there too.
But anyway, the rest of the war, he fought with the French underground against the Nazis.
Now, some of the people that were in that underground with him while he was fighting the Nazis during the latter part of the war later became very high French officials.
One of them became the prime minister.
richard c hoagland
And so when he started to doing his experiments, he had enough power of his personal friends in the government that the French government funded his work.
The reason the thing got suppressed was in the early 70s, the French government fell, and the leftist government took over.
unidentified
And of course, all his friends were out of office.
And at that point, they got him.
They suppressed the whole effort.
But he actually did that, literally stunning experiments and rigorous control.
richard c hoagland
I mean, for example, Courier sent his personal PhD assistant, a very fine lady biologist, down to personally do the graphs on the animals to ensure that everything was done with meticulous care and as fine as could be done by the very best.
unidentified
And the work was unexplainable because nobody knew anything about longitudinal waves, much less time reversing the mass.
Only in biology, you would call it de-differentiation back to an earlier state.
Dedifferentiation is known.
richard c hoagland
Becker in this country did that.
art bell
Tom, let me stop you and ask you a question.
It seems like the right place to ask it.
Somebody in email sent me a summary or said there is a website with a summary of your contributions and claims, and one of the claims, according to that site, is that the Russian scalar electromagnetic weapons appear to be involved in UFO abductions and reports of cattle mutilations.
unidentified
Well, no, I don't think the scalar weapons are involved in that.
By the way, the Russians call them energetics, energetics weapons.
richard c hoagland
And what they are involved in, they definitely generated the Gulf War syndrome, in my opinion.
unidentified
I think I can generate the mechanism that did that.
And I think the signatures are there.
art bell
Anyway, it was not done.
richard c hoagland
Those people were, those men that were sick and are still sick today, it was not in their heads, and it was not just the whiff of a few chemicals.
unidentified
They were casualties of war.
richard c hoagland
They were wounded and should be regarded as such, not with this terrible treatment they've had at the hands of the government.
art bell
It was these kinds of waves that we're talking about that did that.
richard c hoagland
If you do this, or if you deliberately do it incorrectly, what...
art bell
Well, if you believe one, you can believe the other.
In other words, if you believe you're going to heal...
richard c hoagland
You can use it as the ultimate biological weapon.
art bell
wouldn't make sense.
richard c hoagland
And you can also...
art bell
But Tom is saying not only can you, but it was done.
unidentified
It's being done today.
And I've gone on record officially saying it.
I have action papers right now.
We'll not discuss them.
In our own government, trying to convince our own government to, hey, guys, wake up and smell the roses.
This was done to our fellows in the Gulf War.
This was not something that just happened to them by a few parasites.
art bell
Well, we must assume they know that.
unidentified
Well, I don't think they do.
richard c hoagland
And the reason I don't think they do is that our own scientific community, for some reason that I cannot figure out, defends this classical electrodynamics, which dates back to 1864.
Strange Iridium Anomalies 00:10:33
unidentified
They defend that as if it came down on the stone tablets with Moses off the mountains.
art bell
All right, listen, we're at the bottom.
I understand.
We're at the bottom of the air.
Hold on, we'll be right back.
Tom Beardon, Richard C. Hollander, my guests.
Don't touch that dial.
Go into the phone.
Just a moment.
unidentified
I'm Art Bell.
Is coast to coast, afar down the space and the boundary established by experiment.
But they are saying that something is happening to the space-time and the question is, what is causing that to happen?
I personally don't know what's causing that to happen, but if the experiments show that it is happening, then there has to be a causative agent.
richard c hoagland
Remember, with the NASA data you've got an anomaly which is unequivocal.
It's there yeah, you've got one of two, but it's.
You know, the two things conflict exactly, and that's the real puzzle.
What is the causative agent that would give you one kind of effect?
unidentified
Apparently I'm saying apparently here, because I have not read those papers apparently on the surface of the earth, where you're doing experiments and yet would give you something different out in space?
Now boy, that's a real anomaly that one deserves full scientific attention.
If we can measure, like their interpolation of values and so forth I'm not exactly sure how they do it, but they can kind of estimate the mass of the universe and and so forth wouldn't they be seeing some kind of change in the mass of the universe as the speed of light changes?
Or that's assuming that the energy constant would be constant?
richard c hoagland
See in astronomy all the time, from the Hubble data, from the X-ray observatory data, from ground-based data, you see all kinds of wonderful little anomalies if you read these papers that are published carefully, but when you see popular accounts or when you see official press conferences, all these little anomalies are all swept under the rug and the real surprises of the universe are always in the anomalies, the things that don't fit.
I like to think of it by saying that while we may have, in some cases, very good models, the models are not perfect.
unidentified
I don't believe we have a perfect science yet and I believe that what happens with anomalies?
They show you.
richard c hoagland
Either you have some other variables that you don't know about that are now starting to change and are affecting the situation itself you have a piece of your model missing in that case or there's some additional cause that's entered the situation.
unidentified
You don't have an effect occur unless there's a cause.
Otherwise we've got to throw away the whole scientific regime.
We believe in cause and effect and so if we are having the effect, there's got to be a cause.
So the question becomes, if the experiments are sufficient to say we have the anomalies for real, and particularly if they are also contradictory on where you're located.
Then the question becomes, we now have let's say, we accept experiments.
Let's now ask the question, well then, what is the cause?
What are, first of all, you say what's a possible range of causes, and then you go looking to see what, if anything, you can find That fits, any of those that you can think of, that would be possible causes of that.
And that's really the way you have to attack the problem.
And that's a problem, a problem of that magnitude should be attacked directly by the scientific community.
richard c hoagland
Tom and Art?
unidentified
Yes.
richard c hoagland
As you know, I've been talking to some of these satellite operators now because of the Leonid meteor problem.
And I got some information over the weekend from, again, another source who tells me that people like Hughes and others are getting increasingly concerned with orbital anomalies showing up in the tracking of the Earth-orbiting geosynchronous satellites, which are not conforming to the standard gravitational theory.
art bell
Yeah, I've been hearing some rumors about that in the US.
richard c hoagland
And this will show up in antenna pointing and in your ability to stay on the air.
If the gravity constants are changing like the lab data says it is, ultimately, in an orbiting situation, it's more sensitive just because the baselines are much bigger, much longer.
art bell
I've been hearing rumors, Richard.
richard c hoagland
Well, they're not rumors, and what I would appreciate is if you can track the rumors back because our friend from Hawaii, you know, he listened to the entire night, and obviously he's throwing out the experimental observable anomalies because his universe doesn't permit them.
But in fact, the real world tends to intrude a lot, and if the satellites are moving in a non-Newtonian fashion, let me tell you why I can't get any confirmation of this.
art bell
It's because those communication satellites, the ones we're talking about right now, are multiple hundreds of millions of dollars of hardware.
unidentified
Yes.
art bell
Any unexplainable phenomena that's occurring to them is not going to be, unless they know what it is, is not going to be made public, not in a million years.
richard c hoagland
You wouldn't be bringing up the C-word, would you?
art bell
I'm bringing up what I know to be true.
What I know to be true, in the past, when there have been major...
unidentified
That was just D-D-Y-A.
art bell
Yeah, when there's been major communications failures, the vendors of these satellites, and I won't name them, have lied their asses off.
So I know they're not going to talk about it.
richard c hoagland
So there's a coherent suppression strategy for good old economics reasons.
unidentified
Of course.
Okay.
art bell
I know that's true.
richard c hoagland
Well, but the problem, Art, is it's going to get bigger and bigger.
And I'll tell you an area it's going to affect is GPS, which of course is the area that Tom Van Flanner is working on hard.
And it's also going to affect this new system, Iridium.
And someday we're going to do a whole show on Iridium.
The things I found out about Iridium and its reasons for existing have nothing to do with the reasons that have been stated.
unidentified
Nothing.
art bell
I know about Iridium.
It is a constellation of satellites ostensibly to provide data and voice communication.
unidentified
Yep.
richard c hoagland
A low Earth orbit.
unidentified
That's right.
richard c hoagland
Multiple planes.
art bell
That's right.
As a matter of fact, there are many, many Iridium satellites already in the constellation.
So what do you know?
richard c hoagland
It has another reason and another purpose to exist other than its stated purpose.
unidentified
Which is?
Come on.
richard c hoagland
No disaster.
It is the ultimate fallback for disaster.
unidentified
What do you mean?
richard c hoagland
I mean disaster.
If major problems occur, as the physics changes, we've discussed so-called Earth changes, right?
unidentified
Yep.
richard c hoagland
Well, as Earth changes progress with a changing physics, you need an absolutely surefire mechanism of point-to-point communications.
You can't depend on landlines, and you won't be able to depend on the geosynchronous satellites because they've been too exposed.
So Iridium, and there's other stuff we could bring in later on, is this backup.
And you cannot go and buy commercially an iridium contract.
We have tried.
We wanted to do a beta test for the trip that we're discussing to Egypt in December 31 of this year.
We cannot walk in the front door and buy an iridium contract.
And other people who tried on our behalf are being mysteriously stonewalled for the system ostensibly wanting commercial customers.
art bell
There is a lot of unusual.
I'm not even sure what the right word is.
There's some pretty strange stuff going on with iridium.
I've known about it for a couple of years now.
unidentified
So it's not what it is.
art bell
Anyway, that'll be for another show.
We're so out of time.
Wildcard line, I think we might have time for you.
You're on the air.
Hi.
richard c hoagland
Hi, I just had a little nitpick with something that Richard said about the Elevatron supposedly revealing variations in the Earth's gravitational field.
unidentified
Yes.
richard c hoagland
Were you implying you had to resort to hyperdimensional physics in order to explain this?
Was that a complication?
unidentified
Yes.
richard c hoagland
Well, why wouldn't this the moon that causes the tides and the influence of the moon and the sun affect the gravitational constant on the surface of the earth at different times of the day?
art bell
Sufficiently changing to cause you to have to change those weights.
unidentified
Right.
art bell
Good question, Richard.
richard c hoagland
Well, because you're only a few inches off the surface of the earth.
The tidal forces go as one over r cubed, so you can do the calculation, and those are absolutely insignificant.
art bell
Very good answer.
unidentified
Thank you.
Yeah, very good answer.
art bell
So good, we might actually have time for another.
unidentified
And so unusual.
art bell
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hi.
How are you doing?
art bell
Okay, got to be quick because we're running out of time.
unidentified
Okay, well, I'm still trying to pick my job off the ground.
I wasn't sure if I didn't tap into a session of Science Weekly or something.
art bell
Call us toll-free at 1-800-618-8255.
unidentified
Doug, Doug, Doug, we only allow Doug, Doug, Doug, Doug.
Nell's whole.
Hey, Doug.
Doug, Doug, Doug.
Yes, sir.
art bell
Only first names on the air.
If you have a question, ask it quick.
unidentified
That's all right.
Well, hopefully nobody can pronounce my last name.
All right.
The waves you're talking about, I know that's an extremely involved thing, but like the little rocket kits and so forth.
Why can't the common man, the public, ever see any of this, any of this technology?
art bell
We're back to the same old question with what's going to have to be the same old answer, and we don't have time for the same old answer because we're out of time altogether.
So, Richard and Tom, thank you both for being here.
We're going to have to obviously do this again, but we're out of time.
unidentified
So, thank you both.
richard c hoagland
As ever, Art.
Thank you, Art.
unidentified
It was a pleasure.
art bell
Y'all, good night.
What a provocative program.
What a very provocative program.
unidentified
Well, that's it.
art bell
Sorry, we're out of time.
That's all there is from the high desert.
I'm Art Bell.
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