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Aug. 16, 1998 - Art Bell
02:51:29
Dreamland with Art Bell - Barry Taff - Ghosts. LM Howe - Mass Deaths of Species, Colorado Sightings
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The news here, not with a news bulletin, just because we can do it.
This is Art, and we should be up on broadcast.com.
Good afternoon, everybody.
We're about to do a program with Linda Moulton Howe and Dr. Barry Taft.
Dr. Taft, of course, the principal investigator in the entity case.
He's an absolutely fascinating man.
And we're going to be talking about ghosts, and you're going to be invited to call in on the usual numbers, usual call-in numbers.
so to the worldwide uh... broadcast dot com audience will be up and coming on the air and all i don't know about
uh... three minutes nine forty two hundred fresh air
it's wonderful one of the nation's largest rail freight carrier who's
asking a judge in philadelphia There's one more thing, everybody.
We've got a new webcam software up, and so if you get an opportunity to take a look at the webcam software, you might let me know, but I'm judging it's easily twice as detailed as what we had previously.
That's the studio cam at my website, www.artbell.com.
So that way, actually, if you've got a good computer, you can sit there and watch us do the show and listen to the show live at the same time.
About two minutes from broadcast.
Mark.
In the meantime, a federal mediator is working with U.S.
West and Union negotiators in Denver to try and head off a strike of 33,000 telephone workers.
And the world's longest yard sale goes on despite the deaths of two people along its route in Tennessee.
This is USA Radio News.
An ugly cold sore looked back at me.
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If you drive a Nissan, listen up.
USA's John Scott reports that Nissan has announced a voluntary safety recall.
The recall is for all 1995, 96, 97, and some 98 Sintra and 200SX vehicles.
Nissan says the recall is designed to prevent windshield wiper failure.
The automaker says on the affected Sintras and 200SXs, Water may enter a windshield wiper arm linkage ball joint and could result in gradual wear over a period of time inside that joint.
Okay, confirming we are indeed on broadcast.com.
I'm getting calls.
Thank you all.
Stand by.
Linda Moldehau up first from Philadelphia, as usual, and then Dr. Barry Taft, who is probably the world's expert on ghosts, if there can be such a thing.
Expert on ghosts.
He's the one.
Coming up on broadcast.
Other accidents, homicide and suicide.
Heather Scott, with news on the USA Radio Network.
Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not met, and yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
This is Dreamland.
It certainly is, and I'll say a good Sunday evening to all of you.
I'm Art Bell.
As usual, in a moment, from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, our scientific reporter, I would say one of the world's foremost investigators into crop circles and animal mutilation.
She has a couple of books out on the subject, and other high strangeness, I think would be fair to say.
She'll be here with a report, and boy, I'll tell you, Thursday evening, this last, there was a report On CNN, confirming everything Linda Moulton-Howe said about hysteria in the report she's had, and validating every bit of it, fishermen beginning to get very sick because of the fish they handle.
They actually showed brain scans in which these fishermen had brains that were up to 70% in the photographs, changed in one way or another.
From a normal brain, they couldn't remember things.
This, folks, is from fish in our ocean.
So we'll get to all of that.
Not that today's report is oriented that way, but I wanted to validate what Linda Multhow has been reporting on.
Finally, it makes the mainstream press.
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Flashlight, I said.
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What lasts this long?
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I said waterproof.
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Alright, now from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, here is Linda Moulton Howell.
1-800-557-4627. That's 1-800-557-4627. You've got nothing to lose but the fat.
Well, all right. Now, from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, here is Linda Moulton-Howell. Linda, welcome.
It must be hard for you to know what to report on.
They're having the crop season of all time over there in Great Britain.
It's extraordinary.
I have dozens of these amazing formations that Peter Sorensen has been drawing on a daily basis and getting facts back to me.
They are, without doubt, some of the most amazing and even another fractal kind of formation that has been repeated this summer, a variation on last year.
And I'm so delighted to hear that CNN has put on a story that shows the work that Johns Hopkins and Duke University have done on the effects of the toxin that is released from the fisteria organism when it is in a particularly aggressive stage that does kill fish and as they attack the fish.
And it's a plant-animal combination.
of a thing called a dinoflagellate, and we all need to be more aware of what is in our environment and what we're doing.
Lynn, I'd like to congratulate you for being on this story just about a year before the mainstream press.
Well, in fact, I've been reporting about it for two years, and at last it seems like that political bodies are beginning to respond and fund changes.
And, in fact, my lead today Tonight is from the proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences to popular newspapers such as USA Today.
There are increasing headlines about the alarming disappearance of amphibians around the world.
Yes.
In the United States alone, it is now estimated that one third of the toad, frog and salamander population is gone.
Wow!
U.S.
Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt recently told reporters that in a visit to Yosemite National Park in California, the night was so quiet and free of the amphibian croakings that should have been there that Babbitt wants to increase scientific monitoring of the animals.
But scientists already know that Yosemite's amphibian population is in trouble.
Recent headcounts were compared to studies made in the park back in 1915.
Yosemite had ten species of frogs and toads then.
Today, three of those species have died out, and there has been a large decline in the remaining seven.
Researchers this summer were also alerted to mass deaths of frogs in some Minnesota lakes.
Viruses and fungus have been traced in some, but many scientists argue that the germs and the fungus would not normally kill the amphibians in such numbers.
So something in the environment might be weakening their immune systems.
Amphibians are especially susceptible to water and air pollution because they breathe through their skin.
But another culprit in the decline and extinctions of amphibians could be increased ultraviolet B radiation from the sun.
I've interviewed zoologist Andrew Blaustein from Oregon State University several times on Dreamland about his research that shows natural sunlight on the Cascade Lakes now literally kills amphibian eggs.
He thinks the cause is increased UVB radiation produced when the protective ozone layer that surrounds our planet is destroyed by industrial chemical emissions.
Increased UVB radiation has also been shown to weaken immune systems and that might explain why some amphibians are now dying from viruses and fungi that normally would not be lethal.
On top of ozone thinning, there is also the huge problem of water pollution.
This past week, the Philadelphia Inquirer newspaper summarized a June 1998 report produced by the U.S.
Geological Survey, which states that unsafe levels of radium, which can cause cancer, were found in one-third of 170 wells tested in southern New Jersey.
Worse, in more heavily populated areas, 65% of the tested wells contain water that exceeded federal standards for radium.
The Philadelphia Inquirer pointed out that, quote, radium is a known cause of bone and nasal cancers.
It is especially dangerous to children who have developed bone tissue or have developing bone tissue.
When a person ingests radium, the body interprets the radioactive element as calcium and deposits radium in bones, unquote.
One area in New Jersey where children have cancers at a much higher rate than in other New Jersey cities is Palms River, and last year health officials found unsafe levels of radium in Palms River drinking water.
Further, the USGS report specifically linked how fertilizers and lime used on residential and agricultural land can increase radium in underground water.
In fact, southern and central New Jersey's largest aquifer, Was documented in the USGS report as having widespread radium contamination throughout the aquifer.
The USGS has also found unsafe levels of mercury in the aquifer.
But incredibly, health officials throughout southern New Jersey say they were not told about this most recent USGS report about well water contamination And learned about it from the Philadelphia Inquirer newspaper story.
Yeah, when hundreds of furious New Jersey residents and health officials started calling last week to find out why they had not been informed, the USGS sent copies of its report to New Jersey's Ocean County Health Department with a cover letter that the Philadelphia Inquirer reprinted, and part of it states, quote, County Health Departments were not included in a previous mailing of this fact sheet.
As you may know, articles that discuss some of the USGS findings have been published in a local newspaper, meaning the Philadelphia Inquirer.
We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you."
The cover letter was signed by the Chief of the Geohydrologic Studies Program of the USGS.
And Art, this reminds me of North Carolina's dismissal of hysteria as a real problem in estuary waters until media and public pressure forced federal and state officials to start dealing with the problem.
I'm sure this is overstating it, but geez, Linda, that sounds like a toxic cocktail, and they overlooked reporting it to the public.
Well, it's almost like if we don't report it, it'll go away, and of course we know that's not true, and people and children and babies are drinking this water, or were until this report.
How do we make government officials accountable when everyone seems to be afraid of full and open disclosures about increasing environmental deterioration?
Linda, when I was a child, I lived for quite a while in New Jersey.
Is there any way of knowing how long this has been going on?
The study, the USGS study, has taken eight years.
So over eight years, they were getting measurements that they finally have put out in this report.
My God.
I know.
And how How do we clean up huge underground aquifers that are contaminated with such terrible things as radium and mercury?
Now, switching gears to unusual phenomena and unidentified sky objects, I talked this week to a minister and his mother who live in Los Alamos, Colorado.
They described an object very reminiscent of other reports since the 1960s.
Las Animas is a rural town east of Pueblo in the southeastern corner of Colorado.
About 50 miles southwest of Las Animas is Pinon Canyon, a large U.S.
Army training facility.
And further west of Pinon Canyon are the Sangre de Cristo Mountains and Alamosa County, where the unusual death of a horse named Lady made international headlines in September of 1967.
Thirty-one years ago in that summer, Alamosa residents had reported seeing orange glowing lights in the night sky and strange aerial vehicles that move rapidly during the day.
The owners of the dead horse were convinced that something from outer space killed Lady, and international headlines posed the question, did a UFO zap the Colorado horse, leaving it stripped of flesh from the neck up?
When I produced my documentary film, A Strange Harvest, about the animal mutilation mystery, Ranchers and law enforcement told me that when the orange glowing spheres showed up, they found dead animals missing an ear, eye, jaw flesh, tongue, genitals, and rectal tissue, all bloodless, with no tracks around.
Periodically over the years, people have continued to report seeing orange-colored spheres in Southern Colorado.
And now, Larry Riesel, a Los Animas minister, and his mother, Nona, say that on August 12, 1998, They both watched an odd-looking orange light, larger than the background stars, rise above a mesa and disappear to rise again and disappear repeatedly.
First, Larry Riesel, and then his mother, Nona.
All right, now this is a minister you're going to hear from.
Well, as we're sitting there facing to the west, and it would be more to our southwest, probably about 10 to 15 miles away from us, We watched this orange object come up over these bluffs, these mesas, probably about, oh, 50 feet above these bluffs, and then wink out.
And then again, about another 15 minutes, it did it again.
And it would hang there stationary for a while, and it kind of looked like a molten orange liquid.
And when it went down again, you could see an arc of orange light behind one of the mazes of the bluff.
And it just repeated this half a dozen times?
Right.
About the span of 40 minutes.
And when you looked at this object through binoculars, what did you see?
Nice, round, circular object.
Kind of a molten orange with a little bit of reddish color to it.
And when you say molten, I think of lava.
Right.
Do you mean that it had a kind of motion to it?
Yeah.
So that the, uh, whatever the surface of this orange glowing was, it did appear to have some kind of flowing motion.
Right.
Which people have described, uh, in other sightings as well.
It was a slow, like a, you know, a lava lamp.
Mm-hmm.
No lava lamp.
Well, it was so brilliant.
And it just kind of looked like That was quick.
It was thick.
I don't know how... The whole... Whatever that was, it was thick.
And very brilliant.
Orangey red.
A very interesting thing.
Because it was so thick.
And then the light... When it went up the... That's our third time.
It didn't make it.
I don't know why I call it.
But there was still a glow.
In the sky.
And it just looked like it was having trouble getting airborne to me.
And then suddenly... And then it was up.
It was there.
It went up.
And how it got from zero, I mean, to that, I don't, of course, I don't know.
It's just one of those strange things that we don't know anything about.
And the orange object blinks out, and the next thing I know it's probably...
20,000 feet in the air because it looks about the size of a passenger jet, the light.
And now it's two lights together, extremely bright, almost like two stars together, and it's wobbling back and forth.
And we watch this for another 10 or 15 minutes or more, and it finally kind of disappears and winks out.
But it went from that Really round, circular lights.
And then it went from, what, 200 to 300 feet off the ground to around 20,000 feet without going in between.
So, from your skywatches the last couple of years, what would be the other most astonishing thing you've seen?
Same area, okay?
You just have to see the area to know it's very remote.
It was one of these orange globes.
That we see, only it was, to me, it was not round.
These orange globes that we see, they're probably round here.
This was more oval-shaped, and it wasn't as orangey.
It was just a light, and it had no, nothing.
I mean, there was no things on it, you know, no lights or anything.
It was just a glow.
But, the thing that, what it looked like, these little twinkling lights just flew out of it, were coming out, and they were going in this direction, if I remember correctly.
Okay, they came out the south door.
Okay, we'll call it like the thing had a door on it.
Mm-hmm.
Came out of the south door, circled around, and went to the north.
All these little lights, and I don't know how many.
I didn't count them.
Mm-hmm.
But more than half a dozen?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
A lot.
Yeah.
And what happened to the orange glowing thing after the little twinkly lights?
Oh, it, after a while it blinked out.
Have there been any reports of any unusual animal deaths?
I talked to an auctioneer and a land broker a little about a month ago at an auction.
And we got to talking about Bible prophecy and some different things like that.
And I asked if anybody talked to him about cattle mutilation.
And he said some ranchers had talked to him about it, but he wouldn't give out any names or anything like that because no one wanted to talk about it.
Implying that there have been some...
There had been along the Arkansas Valley, or Arkansas River, here in the valley.
Somewhere between here and Fowler, in the area.
But he wouldn't elaborate on it.
He just said, well, you know, they just don't want to talk about it.
I'll just tell you that I have heard it.
And in Trinidad, Colorado, in the 1970s, a little further south west of there,
the chief investigator for the district attorney's office and a deputy
both sat in a car and watched an orange light the size of a full moon split in two,
each sphere racing off in opposite directions, then coming back together into one orange glowing sphere
that moved down toward the ground and disappeared.
At the same time, they were investigating dozens of animal mutilation cases.
And if anyone listening has recently seen such orange spheres or knows about new animal mutilations, please fax me, Linda Howe, at 215-491-9842.
That's area code 215-491-9842.
215-491-9842 or write to me at Post Office Box 300 in Jamison, J-A-M-I-S-O-N, Pennsylvania,
zip code 18925.
That's Post Office Box 300, Jameson, PA, 18929.
Alright, Linda, we've only got a few seconds, and I know this is utterly unfair, but I mean, these are incredible, incredible developments regarding these sightings and animal mutilations.
After all these years, do you want to take a fast guess at what it is?
Well, in my work, and in this newest book out, Glimpses of Other Realities, Volume 2, High Strangeness, that's Amazon.com, Barnes & Noble, and bookstores, are some of the best military voices discussing not only who or what could be interacting with this planet, But even possibly, why?
Alright, so then summed up, you do believe this is an extraterrestrial presence?
It's a complicated one that in some instances appears to be extraterrestrial and may be defined as something else and others.
That's why it's so complex.
Alright, as always, wonderful.
Thank you, Linda.
If there are any developments during the week, we'll have you on.
Otherwise, we'll see you on Dreamland next Sunday.
All right, thank you, and good night.
Linda Moulton Howe, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
Boy, that was some report.
Coming up is Dr. Barry Taff.
We're going to be talking about ghosts.
Ghosts are a form of spiritual energy that is transmitted by the body.
They are a form of energy that is transmitted by the mind.
They are a form of energy that is transmitted by the body.
They are a form of energy that is transmitted by the mind.
They are a form of energy that is transmitted by the body.
They are a form of energy that is transmitted by the mind.
They are a form of energy that is transmitted by the body.
They are a form of energy that is transmitted by the mind.
Ghosts are a form of energy that is transmitted by the mind.
They are a form of energy that is transmitted by the body.
They are a form of energy that is transmitted by the mind.
They are a form of energy that is transmitted by the body.
They are a form of energy that is transmitted by the mind.
They are a form of energy that is transmitted by the body.
They are a form of energy that is transmitted by the mind.
They are a form of energy that is transmitted by the body.
They are a form of energy that is transmitted by the mind.
They are a form of energy that is transmitted by the body.
They are a form of energy that is transmitted by the mind.
They are a form of energy that is transmitted by the body.
They are a form of energy that is transmitted by the mind.
To talk with Art Bell on Greenland from the Kingdom of Nye, east of the Rockies, dial
1-800-825-5033.
West of the Rockies, 1-800-618-8255, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico.
First-time callers may reach Art at area code 702-727-1222, or call Art on the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
on the wild card line at area code 702 727 1295. Now again, here's Art Bell.
Once again, here I am.
Boy, do you have a treat coming up.
Probably the most interesting guest that I've ever had on the subject of ghosts and things that go bump in the night, and maybe sometimes during the day as well, is Dr. Barry Taft.
He is a remarkable interview.
And he'll be coming right up.
Don't move.
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and ask for your free mileage and performance quotes uh... i know that dr taft was the principal investigator
what we know as the entity case but truly truly frightening uh... case of uh...
manifestation I guess.
Actually, attack by some sort of manifestation would be more like it.
The Good Doctor's book coming out is Aliens Above, Ghosts Below, Explorations of the Unknown, and there are so many of you on the web that if you go to the web you will now find a link, Dr. Taft's name, and a link, and you can actually purchase on the net the book.
You can read an excerpt from the book for free, and you can read about Dr. Taft.
But this time, I think, we're going to let Dr. Taft... Dr. Taft, welcome to the program!
for some reason your audio is down a little bit I guess because I was trying to beep in, that's all
It'll click off in a second No, but I mean the actual level of the audio is down
It was quite good a moment ago when I was talking to you on the phone and now it's gone bad.
I wonder what's happened.
I can't even hear you.
Are you talking directly into the phone?
All right, I'm going to try something here.
Let me try and redo my side here and see what we get.
All right, are you there?
Yes.
No, we still have a totally... You're not on some sort of headset, are you?
No, normal phone.
Oh, now it's okay.
See, someone was beeping in, and that sort of diminishes the quality of the line.
I see.
That's all it is.
Well, I'll say it does.
All right, what I would like you to do, if you would, is to tell us about yourself this time, sort of your life story.
Including your professional career and how you got into all this well The reason I'm into this field I show actually my background is I've been a parapsychologist for working this field for approximately 30 years I worked out of UCLA's former parapsychology laboratory from 1969 through 1978 when it was formally terminated I was working there as a research associate I hold a doctorate in psychophysiology from UCLA and during my 30 years I've investigated more than 3,500 cases of ghost hauntings Poltergeist, as such, conducted extensive studies in telepathy, precognition, and remote viewing.
Some of the work I did was, I guess you'd call it, the initial protocol development for what was now called remote viewing.
This was done in the early 1970s before SRI picked it up and the military took it over.
I was also, myself, investigated as a psychic subject.
This was published in a medical journal back Twenty-three years ago.
Now, that's one I didn't know about.
Right.
It was called a Laboratory Investigation of Telepathy, the Study of the Psychic.
That's what got me into all this.
When I was growing up as a child, I was having a profound number of what's called telepathic clairvoyant precognitive experiences, out-of-body experiences.
That's really interesting, and this is a side of you I had no idea about.
What happened to you as a child?
Well, I mean, I thought everyone... I'll give you an example of a classic case regarding my background.
I was 10 years old.
You're in the fifth grade.
I was playing handball or foursquare on the courtyard, whatever they call it.
You bounce a ball from one little square to another with other kids.
Right.
And a little blonde girl was walking towards me, and suddenly in my mind's eye, I see a plastic bag on her side and a tube going into her body.
I didn't know what a colostomy was.
but i thought that i'm going to wipe the fair you know being a ten-year-old child about knowing that i
walked up to her and after what it was
and she panicked and ran and told the teacher the crackling the per
you know the principal's office elementary school and uh...
sure enough she had a call up to me she was wearing a bag and but it was under
her clothes all mine and i think that everyone had
i didn't think it was that unusual No, of course that would be the case.
In fact, for it to be otherwise would be suspect.
In other words, anybody who had these, what normal people would call powers, would not be suspect of them at all until they suddenly realized, maybe in the principal's office, that this is not normal.
Right, and he began questioning me.
He said, well, did I sneak in the girl's bathroom?
that I look up or dress, the obvious, and I said, well, no, I just looked at her as
she walked towards me and I saw it.
He said, what do you mean you saw it?
I said, well, just like you have that inflamed appendix scar that never healed quite well.
He turned several shades of purple and ended the conversation.
Other people don't have these experiences.
Why don't they?
What was normal for me at that time wasn't normal for my friends and my family.
I was curious, why was I having these experiences?
What was different or unique about me?
There was nothing physically different that I was aware of.
Is that your first recollection or now that you think back past even that?
It precedes that by many years, but that was just a classic situation where I'd be around somebody and I'd know something about them or whatever.
Another situation was someone in an elementary school was stealing bicycles.
And I just went up to this one person and I said, why are you doing it?
And she finally broke down and admitted that her friends were stealing the bike.
So, you know, I just assumed this was normal, that you could just know or sense these things.
And, you know, who knew in those days back, you know, long, long, this is like, you know, 40 years ago.
So it's... Now, this, okay, this leads to an obvious question.
And that is, is it your view, your best guess that you were born with this or that it developed in some way in your early
years?
What do you think?
Well, probably a combination of both.
My feeling about this aspect of the human condition is that it's sort of like we all
have muscles and yet we all drive cars, but most of us will never become a race driver
because we lack the physical stamina, the endurance, the coordination, etc.
Most of us may participate in some simple sport activity because we enjoy it, but few
of us will ever become decathlon champions.
I think everyone has a little potential in them and it varies from person to person.
Some people are born with a better physique, better vision than others.
Some people have an incredible inherent potential and if they receive the proper type of feedback, positive feedback and reinforcement to develop a learning paradigm within their own mind, They can substantially improve their ability.
Alright, but one would think, based on what little you have told us, that yours would have been squashed big time, beginning in the principal's office.
Well, I tended not to listen to what other people said, because I know what I experienced.
It's not like they... It's not like they said you couldn't have done it.
They just thought that there was some alternative explanation for it.
After these things happen hundreds, if not thousands of times, varying types of experiences in this area, You begin to either assume that you're having emotional problems, you're delusional, or something beyond the scope of our current understanding is occurring, and of course, I pick the latter.
Well, delusional would be, you're saying, there's a bag on this girl, and then there isn't one, then you'd have to wonder about delusional, but when there is one, then even a ten-year-old mind has got to begin to conclude, why do I know this and everybody else does not?
Right.
Douglas Goldstein, CFP®, is the director of Profile Investment Services and the host of the Goldstein on Gelt radio show.
He is a licensed financial professional both in the U.S.
and Israel.
Securities offered through Portfolio Resources Group, Inc., Member FINRA, SIPC, MSRB, NFA, SIFMA.
Accounts carried by National Financial Services LLC.
Member NYSE®, a Fidelity Investments company.
What happened was I was in, I think I was in upper division college and I heard about
Dr. Solomon at UCLA and tried to get a hold of her.
Initially I couldn't, but I met one of her...
I was 20, I think 21.
Okay, so by this time you were really wanting to know what the hell was going on with you.
It was probably the most predominant aspect of my life at that point.
And there were aspects of it that were semi-controllable, meaning they were almost volitional.
So I met a student, a graduate student, who actually worked with Thelma Moss.
He introduced me to her, and she sat me down after I spoke a little bit about my background, and she just threw me her keys and said, psychometrically, tell me what you can tell me.
Now, I knew nothing about the woman other than the fact that she worked at UCLA, and they had a little lab going, and I proceeded to tell her things about herself.
It just popped into my head, and apparently much of it was accurate.
Described some of her best friends, what they looked like, some of their medical problems, you know, whatever.
She was impressed, so I became a research assistant in the lab and I became also a subject
where she did a formal study on me which was published in Behavioral Neuropsychiatry.
How could I have interviewed you for four times and not known about all of this?
I don't know.
I guess we just jumped to more dramatic material.
This is dramatic enough.
In other words, this explains why you then went on to be at UCLA in Parapsychology for
all those years and it explains everything and somehow I missed it.
It was a bad me.
If this had not been for my own personal experiences in this area, I don't think I ever would have
gone into this because I'm very skeptical by nature and I'm more oriented towards science.
So I would have been very dubious, all these experiences would have been extremely dubious
to me.
Since I've never used drugs and I don't abuse alcohol if used at all as most of my friends
did, we were growing up in that hippie era.
I don't know, I guess for some reason my brain was attuned to this and I became sort of used
to it.
There it began, she tossed you the keys, you told her what you knew and then what?
then she said you know would they'd like Blah, blah, blah.
And then she said, you want to work in the lab as a research assistant, right?
Certainly, you know, sounds like it'd be fun.
And, you know, you get to be different.
You know, you've already learned some protocol in classes and laboratories and college.
And, you know, I was just about to enter graduate school.
Well, no, this was two years before I entered graduate school.
This was 1969.
So it was, you know, it was a very fortunate opportunity.
And I think Dr. Moss looked at me as a psychic pet.
A psychic pet?
Because there were certain things I could turn on.
There were certain aspects of my abilities that seemed to be relatively reliable, as reliable as any of these things can be.
In what areas mostly?
The only thing I've been able to do that's consistent is diagnose people, which of course is illegal because I'm not a medical doctor.
But I seem to be good at describing what's physically wrong with people.
And I feel it if I'm having the problem.
Question for you, is this something that just is always present when you meet somebody, or do you call it up on demand, or what?
Both.
For example, I remember one instance, I went to see a movie with some friends, sat down in the seats in the theater, and there was someone to my left, I don't know, a stranger sitting there, and I suddenly developed an acute pain in my left kidney.
And it was killing me that I didn't have it before I sat down and, you know, I'm in good health and I thought, this is odd.
And I turned to the person and said, this is going to sound really weird, but do you have a, like a weak or a painful left kidney?
And she said, yeah, how did you know?
Things like that.
You go to a party, you meet someone, you shake his hand, and suddenly I grabbed my chest and I said, you have a rheumatic heart, you're having problems.
Now, yeah, I said, can you, you know, I just backed away.
I, you know, I would think, That other people would be really, really, really uncomfortable.
For me, for example, if I were to shake your hand and you were to say, ìBoy, how about that heart valve?î I would be really uncomfortable in that situation and I would imagine you didnít make a lot of close friends outside of the professional stuff.
He said, ìIíve scared off some of my best friends.
I was in early college, undergraduate college.
My neighbor and I traded off driving to school because we shared a lot of the classes and
time schedules.
One day, weíre driving in his car.
He had a Plymouth Barracuda, a 1968 Barracuda.
Weíre driving and suddenly, I said, ìStop the car.î He said, ìWhy?î I said, ìJust
stop.î He said, ìWhy?
I donít know.
Weíll be late.î We're going to get an accident.
A woman in a red 66 T-Bird is going to T-bonus.
She's going to have beige interior.
She's going to have black hair, you know, like a beehive.
This is, you know, the 60s.
And I said, your car is going to be pretty badly damaged.
And he goes, are you out of your mind?
And I said, just stop the car.
Let's just sit here and just veg out for 10 minutes or listen to the radio or go get something to drink, you know, get a nice tea or something.
He wouldn't do it.
I'd buckle the old-fashioned shoulder belt they had that weren't integrated into the seat belt and within a few minutes there was the accident.
We were broadsided and we weren't hurt but the car was badly damaged and that was the end of our friendship right there.
Oh my god and it was as described all the way?
Oh yeah, I mean the car was a 66 Red T-Bar with a beige interior with a woman with a No, the ratted beehive black hair, and he just looked at me like I was... Yeah, you know what he probably thought?
That I made it happen.
You probably thought that you planned the damn thing.
That I set it up.
Yeah.
Oh my goodness.
It actually never entered his mind.
All I ever got from him was that it scared him severely enough where he didn't want to be around somebody who was going to tell him things that were going to happen that he didn't know of.
Well, look, I know a couple of... I know one person like yourself.
He's Danion Brinkley.
Danion is a dear, dear friend of mine, but Danion creeps me out every time I'm with him.
Never fails, ever.
When Danion is talked about, he'll pick up a phone and call me and he'll say, you're talking about me, huh?
Danion will grab a piece of paper, and I really can't describe in what case this was, but I know personally this to be true, And he would be able to tell me who wrote it, what their motives were, what their house looks like, what was out in front of the house, what kind of car.
It totally creeps me out.
And, Daniel, if you're listening, buddy, I love you, but it does creep me out.
And that's how a normal person, in quotes, I think reacts to this sort of thing.
Douglas Goldstein, CFP®, is the director of Profile Investment Services and the host of the Goldstein on Gelt radio show.
He is a licensed financial professional both in the U.S.
and Israel.
Securities offered through Portfolio Resources Group, Inc., Member FINRA, SIPC, MSRB, NFA, SIFMA.
Accounts carried by National Financial Services LLC.
Member NYSE®, a Fidelity Investments company.
She said, ìYeah, right.î Well, she started working for a big company.
They gave her a medical workup for the insurance physical and they found it.
They did a biopsy and it was benign, but they still took it out and she said, ìI canít
take this.î She said, ìDidnít I give service?î Thatís not the point.
I donít want somebody that can literally look through me like a plate glass window.
She said, ìIím sorry I canít live a normal life and be around someone that has x-ray
vision so to speak.î Can you describe how you, for example, a benign tumor in a
breast, how would you visualize Do you feel that?
I can understand when there's pain, for example, that you would empathize and feel that pain, but with a benign tumor, how would you know?
I don't remember the precise details because it was 25 years ago, but I remember we were together and I suddenly had this feeling or sensation in the left pectoral area.
I guess the best way to describe it is whatever I do when I look at people to initiate this process, it's sort of like a color CAT scan.
I can't describe it in my mind.
That's what it looks like.
It's like looking at an anatomy book and you've sliced the person open.
You've sectioned them.
In my mind, I see it.
What's intriguing, for example, is not long ago, I diagnosed this friend.
And I told her she had some degenerative problems with the C4, 5, and 6 vertebrae.
Right.
And I said, these aren't traumatic injuries.
These are degenerative problems and described bone spurs and the whole bit.
And I just saw the scans and they were exactly what I saw in my mind.
So what is it I'm doing and how do I do it?
And if I knew that, you know, I don't know.
I mean, I probably wouldn't be living here right now.
Okay.
Now you began this odyssey at UCLA as sort of a pet psychic.
Did they do a lot of work and testing on you?
There were two studies done.
One was done by Dr. Moss, which was published in a medical journal, which mostly dealt with telepathy, but within that telepathy, there was clairvoyance, and some precognition to knock in.
That was the first hint to me, among many other things that developed in our early remote viewing development work, was that this phenomena, what we call telepathic or clairvoyance or precognition, are all different aspects of the same thing.
It's all determined by where in time, space and time it appears to come from, and where we are when we perceive it.
So it's all very subjective.
Now the other side of this is, even though you might totally freak out friends, I would imagine that people who have an illness that is undiagnosed, that they desperately need help with, would come to somebody like you and beg you to try and help them.
Has there been a lot of that?
We're at a break point here, so it's a quick answer.
I've got to get there.
They have.
All right.
Stand by, Dr. Taft.
Dr. Barry Taft, who was the principal investigator in the Entity case, He is my guest, and boy am I learning a lot about him I didn't know.
Coming up on the top of the hour, I'm Art Bell from an area near Dreamland.
And this is Dreamland.
This is Dreamland.
Okay, broadcast.com audience.
We are in our break right now.
And I think that just so there's something here, a great day.
As you know, President Clinton Monday is going to go before a grand jury, and there no doubt is news of that.
It's kind of an interesting story because they're trying to decide What he's going to say, is he going to admit sexual contact with Monica Lewinsky?
Or is he going to not admit anything in there, in the throes of that decision-making right now?
Which is an interesting way to put it, if you think about it, because it's kind of like they're back there deciding, I know this probably isn't true, but they're back there deciding what quality of lie it will be Or whether it shall be the truth.
Anyway, his advisors are huddling with him on that question, and it almost does make it sound that way, doesn't it?
As though they're deciding, well, are we going to lie our butts off, or are we going to tell the truth?
Anyway, all of that underway, so let's see what the news has to say.
you're listening to dreamland USA Radio Network News
This is Heather Scott.
Secretary of State Madeleine Albright is denying reports the U.S.
tried to block or delay surprise U.N.
inspections of Iraqi weapons sites.
Albright says the State Department fully supports the U.N.' 's right to decide where, when, and how it conducts inspections.
But Mark Feinflein with the Republican National Committee says this is just another example of President Clinton's administration doing one thing and meaning another.
He publicly rails against Saddam Hussein when he gets up and he speaks and then his people down below him, like his top Secretary of State Department person, goes and does another thing and gives Saddam Hussein the green light.
In other news, 11 southern and southwestern states hardest hit by the heat wave are getting $50 million in aid.
President Clinton has asked Congress not to kill the low-income Home Energy Assistance Program that helped poor people beat the heat.
We'll do what we can, but I hate to put anything else on your legislative plate, but I need you to help me get this LIHEAP program continued.
It looks like extreme weather will intensify, not abate, and America needs to be there to help our most vulnerable citizens.
In the meantime, the White House continues to dispute reports that President Clinton may admit to a limited physical encounter with former White House intern Monica Lewinsky.
The Dow closed 34 points.
This is USA Radio News.
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Six Americans and twelve other activists won't have to do hard labor in Asia.
Asian nation formerly known as Burma.
News 8's Connie Lon reports the government will deport the group instead.
The White House is pleased the American students will be expelled from Burma or Myanmar.
But White House spokesman Mike McCurry says the arrest should not have happened in the
first place.
The White House official says the situation points to the general lack of democracy and
human rights in that country.
The U.S.
has been calling for improvement and greater liberty.
Connie Long, USA Radio News, the White House.
Nearly 3,500 union maintenance workers for Conrail are on strike.
Employees walked off the job over the use of outside contractors to construct railroad tracks in Marysville, Ohio.
Conrail says the strike is illegal and is seeking a temporary restraining order against the striking workers.
Conrail has 21,000 miles of tracks through 14 states.
This is USA Radio News.
I use Gold Bond to prevent heat rash and chafing of tight clothing.
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Chicago millionaire Steve Fawcett is halfway through his attempt to become the first person to circle the world non-stop in a hot air balloon.
Fawcett is about 2400 miles west of Australia.
Alan Blount with Fawcett Mission Control says earlier the balloon had been blown off course.
The team had asked Steve to climb to 28,000 feet to once again for the third time to test the higher altitude winds and see if he could get that shift to the right which would take him east.
He did that and it was a little frightening because on the way up he went through several altitude levels where he was actually tracking the wrong way towards the northwest.
Blount says the flight is now back on track.
The Immigration and Naturalization Service is offering a $5,000 reward for information about the person they believe led eight aliens across the border in a van without food or water.
The aliens were found dead.
Heather Scott with news on the USA Radio Network.
For those of you who are wanting to call, I anticipate, oh, at the bottom of the hour
of the hour or a little past that, weíll begin taking calls.
or a little past that, weíll begin taking calls.
So good afternoon to everybody on broadcast.com.
So good afternoon to everybody on broadcast.com.
Iím Mark Bell.
Iím Art Bell.
Iím going to be talking to you about the American Heart of you who are wanting to call, I anticipate at the bottom
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You can call us at 888-822-4232.
Weíre here to help you.
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It is really an amazing thing that you can interview somebody as I have, Dr. Taff,
this being the fourth time, because he's such a fascinating person.
And And in the fourth interview, find out so much you didn't know about the man.
Absolutely remarkable, nothing short of remarkable.
Dr. Taff, we'll be right back.
Boy, do I have an exciting ghost story for you.
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Alright, once again from Los Angeles, California, here is Dr. Barry Taff.
Doctor, welcome back.
I'm just really puzzling about how I could not have known all this about you, because you always came at this as an investigator, and that's all we've ever talked about, not the investigated, so it's remarkable.
Let me go back to the question that I just made you briefly answer.
it from both sides. It sure does.
Before I even get into that, let me go back to the question that I just made you
briefly answer. Have you done a lot of diagnosis of people that have come to
you? Have you not made that very public in the past or why?
I don't broadcast it because, first of all, I'm not a medical doctor, so you're not legally supposed to do this, but when I do do it, all I do is tell people, this is what I think is wrong with you.
Go to your physician and have them do the proper workup to check it out.
Do you find it to be a bothersome thing, people coming to you all the time?
It's not that frequent, because the majority of the time, people want resolution, or they want you to tell them what to do about it.
And not only can I not do that, but I wouldn't do it even if I could, because there's laws against that.
You bet there are.
But I've had enough success at doing it.
In fact, one instance was particularly interesting.
Some years ago, one called me, and I went out to see if I could be of help to her.
And I'm doing my thing, and I said, there's nothing wrong with you.
Why did you call me?
I said, there's nothing wrong.
And she said, oh, no, no, there is.
And I said, excuse me, ma'am.
But I said, I don't feel anything wrong with you.
So finally, I said, look, you know, I don't want to waste your time.
What's the problem?
Well, I've got a pain in the first joint on the left index finger.
I said, that's arthritis.
I wouldn't even pick that up because it's so minor.
That's a normal human condition with aging.
It's not a pathology or dysfunction or a disease process.
It's what happens, unfortunately, when we get older.
And I said, that's why you called.
And I said, it's a fortune you're having the problem.
But I said, I wouldn't pick that up.
That's like saying, I pick up the fact that we age.
Well, of course we age.
All right.
Well, then, then I can easily understand how you moved into the area of investigation that you did.
Now, I really understand it.
With regard to ghosts, one of my favorite subjects of all time, I mean, actually, we could discuss ghost telepathy, poltergeist UFOs, precognition, remote viewing.
I'm beginning to get to the point where I'm almost ready to put all of these into the same bag, and that may be too simplistic, but I'm beginning to wonder if there is not some sort of single source that's behind all of this.
Well, I think what there may be from my own experiences and my research is that There seems to be other forces that work here in our domain, in our universe, in our world, forces that are not necessarily electromagnetic or not gravitational and certainly not nuclear as we know them.
These forces may be at the root of the paranormal and may also be the forces that UFOs may utilize to function and perform the miraculous events they do in our environment.
When things appear and disappear, when things go through solid walls, when Douglas Goldstein, CFP®, is the director of Profile Investment Services and the host of the Goldstein on Gelt radio show.
He is a licensed financial professional both in the U.S.
and Israel.
Securities offered through Portfolio Resources Group, Inc., Member FINRA, SIPC, MSRB, NFA, SIFMA.
Accounts carried by National Financial Services LLC.
Member NYSE®, a Fidelity Investments company.
His book Building Wealth in Israel is available in bookstores, on the web, or can be ordered at www.profile-financial.com.
Well, when you move into, whether it was the entity case or any other ghost or poltergeist case, and you move in as an investigator, do you find that your abilities aid you?
I would imagine the answer to that would be probably yes, but does it skew scientific Objectivity.
I really am not interested in this objective approach to this subject at all, because it doesn't lend any more credible information, it doesn't add any more data to our base in the sense of psychics are great in the proper environment and the proper perspective and their information could be very helpful in certain situations, but when you're investigating ghosts, even if you could confirm and validate what it is they're talking about, names, places and dates, which of course can be done with enough research that it could mean that they're just
somehow, it's retrocognition, they're sensing the past.
They're sensing it sort of blindly at a distance.
That doesn't prove their communication with whatever energy entity phenomena is there.
I'm more interested as a scientist to physically document the phenomena in terms of like thermal
imaging and optical imaging.
He is a licensed financial professional both in the U.S.
and Israel.
Securities offered through Portfolio Resources Group, Inc., Member FINRA, SIPC, MSRB, NFA, SIFMA.
Accounts carried by National Financial Services LLC.
Member NYSE®, a Fidelity Investments company.
He's talking to someone that's dead.
I can't see him, I can't hear him.
Go to any psychiatric journal, it's full of people who claim they're hearing voices in
their head.
Here is in my opinion the $64 million question or maybe with inflation billion now and that
is do we continue to exist after physical death and in what form?
I think that's probably the greatest single question facing the human condition.
Right.
But with your area of investigation, you'd be better qualified to answer it than many, most.
Well, yes and no.
Yes, from my own subjective experience and some of the research, no, because there's a lot of information available, but it isn't Fortunately, hard objective information.
Again, it's the anecdotal type.
No one has yet died, literally, and come back and describe something.
Not enough people, fortunately, have not had that experience.
But I believe, based on the experiences I've had and the research I've done, that whatever makes each of us unique unto ourselves, in some form probably existed long before our bodies were around.
You're not going to have heard of this, Doctor, and I'm only sorry now I didn't keep it.
About a week ago, I had a report of some new drug that somebody has laid their hands on, it's rather underground at the moment, that claims to be able to produce clinical death and give you an NDE and just about guarantee you'll come back out of it again.
This was so unusual and revolutionary that I think I mentioned it on one other show.
Now, there are people who have had NDEs, near-death experiences.
How much stock do you put in what people say about these NDEs?
To me, the most significant aspect of a near-death experience is the out-of-body Douglas Goldstein, CFP®, is the director of Profile Investment Services and the host of the Goldstein on Gelt radio show.
He is a licensed financial professional both in the U.S.
and Israel.
Securities offered through Portfolio Resources Group, Inc., Member FINRA, SIPC, MSRB, NFA, SIFMA.
Accounts carried by National Financial Services LLC.
Member NYSE®, a Fidelity Investments company.
It's very vivid and very clear. It's like you're there, but you're not physically. That to me suggests that
consciousness at some level can separate itself, can dislocate itself.
In all my life, I've never had an OBE.
know that some way that that's often in a remote location proceed information and then bring it back to the body ok
but is this inability that we have a while were alive and ends with physical
death the sixty four million that you've got it
i was in paris france recently i had in all my life i've never had a no b
i had a real none of the classic uh...
i was while i was on vacation none of the classic humming and buzzing and uh...
paralyzing none of that it was instance
in an instant in in just in instant by accelerated straight up out of my body up
above paris and i i don't even say that i physically uh...
was but particularly aware of what was below me I was in the most joyful, ecstatic condition a person... I mean, there aren't words to describe it.
It so shocked me that I immediately, or at least I think immediately, time reference is very difficult, I slammed back into my body and I woke my wife up and I started to tell her about all of this.
Honey, you wouldn't believe what just happened to me!
You know, she was really happy to be awakened for all that, but it was I didn't expect it.
I was out of my natural element.
You know, when I'm here doing a show every day, I've got a very set routine.
That was broken.
I was in a different place.
Maybe that had something to do with it.
But there was no warning.
There was nothing.
Boom!
It just happened.
And there's no question about it.
I've had flying dreams.
And I know when I wake up, they're dreams.
I knew what I just had.
I was out of my body.
What the hell happened to me?
Better yet, Where was I?
Right.
The question is, even beyond that, Art, is what is it of us that externalizes itself from the body?
Yeah.
What aspect, what part of consciousness, as if we know what consciousness is, but there's something that is not neurochemical or electrochemical.
You bet.
And, you know, I don't know, soul, spirit, whatever, I don't know, can leave the body and can transit, you know, to virtually anywhere.
All right, but the key thing, again, well, let's roll over it, You have abilities and you've had them all your life, but you're alive now.
Well, I guess the best way to describe it is when I was a young kid, I'd lay back in bed and think, someday I'm going to get old like everyone else.
Someday I'm going to die like everyone else.
And I won't be here anymore.
And I thought, what an unpleasant thought.
I don't want to die.
Who wants to die?
But I thought, you know, not that long ago, I wasn't alive.
And that didn't bother me.
I'm not worried about that.
I don't have any painful or disturbing memories or recall of not being physical, and based on that and based on my out-of-body experiences when I was younger and other experiences, I think it's basically existing in another domain, but you're not the way we are now, but you may carry part of what makes you with you.
How's this for a hard one to answer?
If we, for the sake of a discussion, assume that there is nothing after physical death, that's it?
Blank.
As you pointed out, you don't recall anything before you were born.
Unless you have memories of being reincarnated.
Unless.
But stick with me here, and so then, for the sake of the discussion, if it's an absolute blank after we're gone, then what the hell is the point of this?
I mean, we're here for a cosmic blink.
are around for a medium amount of time.
We're here for a cosmic blink of the eye.
I mean, it's almost totally without reason, and I'm searching for the right word here, meaning this short physical existence if there is not more to it than this.
Of course, people, us human beings, try to give reason.
Douglas Goldstein, CFP®, is the director of Profile Investment Services and the host of the Goldstein on Gelt radio show.
He is a licensed financial professional both in the U.S.
and Israel.
Securities offered through Portfolio Resources Group, Inc., Member FINRA, SIPC, MSRB, NFA, SIFMA.
Accounts carried by National Financial Services LLC.
created or destroyed, but it can change forms from one like, you know, to potential to kinetic
or something along those lines. I don't think it's as simple as that when your body stops,
you physically die, but depending on who you are, the conditions under which you die, and
perhaps some other variables may determine if part of your consciousness hangs around
here and you start appearing as a ghost or an apparition or you transition to wherever
it is we go when we leave this physical domain.
Alright, so I'm wishing, hoping, even praying that there is an existence after the physical one, because we're not here very long, so that leads us into ghosts as a primary area of investigation regarding whether or not there is an afterlife.
Now, you've done a lot of investigation into ghosts.
What have you concluded?
What is a ghost?
Well, first of all, there's different categories.
There is, when you deal with this type of phenomena, there is this category which suggests a haunting or a ghost, which in and of itself implies discarnate intelligence or disembodied intelligence or You know, a consciousness or a soul that is incorporeal, and theoretically that would imply survival at some level.
That's right.
Then there's the more down to earth, if we can call it that, end of this research, which says that the majority of this phenomenon, probably 98-99% of it, if not all of it, stems from the living human psyche, that virtually everything we're experiencing Investigating can be explained by some form of psychokinesis.
See, that's where I begin to get nervous.
If that's true, it's a manifestation of the living, and then that leads one more toward the conclusion that there is nothing after death.
The first chapter in my book, Aliens Above, Ghosts Below, the first chapter is called The Haunting Thought, and what I try to do is Basically break down these different categories and my conclusion is that this phenomena is no more than the product of a unstable personality.
It is indeed a haunting thought.
That I think there is a small part of this phenomena, ghost, haunting, poltergeist, that clearly suggests and implies survival of consciousness.
But the majority of cases that I've investigated, that I know other researchers have, suggest that It's the product of a living human mind, but we do have manifestation of a human mind.
That is the product of a living human psyche, but we occasionally get those cases where to anyone but a blind man, the evidence is all compiled up on one end, and that is that something of someone is still hanging around.
Okay, let's take those 90% and throw them away and talk about the 10%.
In your opinion, if you document those 10%, How conclusive is the evidence?
Well, I'll give you an example.
In my 30 years of work, the most spectacular case, bar none, what I'd call the Mount Everest of my cases, took place in 1976 in the Hollywood Hills.
We call it the Hollymont case.
This is in Chapter 1 in my book.
What makes this case unique is that no one was living in the house while I was investigated initially.
There were no pubescent adolescent children, no emotionally troubled or disturbed adults,
and we found a body buried under the house in 1922.
You're kind of leaping ahead to hear the story.
There were no adolescents living in the house.
Was there anybody living in the house?
What happened in the story is really impressive.
It's quite extraordinary.
Go ahead.
In 1976, a student at UCLA comes in our parapsychology lab and he tells us of an incredible series
of events that transpired at this house on Hollymont Drive in the Hollywood Hills.
And he said that this woman walked in and a throne chair flew across the room and pinned her to the wall.
A kettle came off the stove, flying through the air under its own power, dumped water over her head.
That cabbage was flying around the house with a knife in it, chasing people.
And I said, did you see this?
He goes, yes.
We were all there.
I said, is there any way we can gain access to this house?
He goes, of course.
Let me, you know, make some calls.
Subsequently, we ended up at this house owned by a man named Don Jolly, who was a banker.
And while the first night we were there, all hell broke loose.
Things started flying around the house.
Objects took off and flew at people.
You saw this with your own eyes?
And at one point we're standing in a pantry and thousands of coins have ported from nowhere and started raining down from the ceiling.
What?
Not being dropped, raining, just appearing like in the movie Poltergeist.
Thousands of what?
Thousands of coins, pennies, thousands, just falling and they fill the floor up to maybe our ankles.
Really?
Really.
And it was the most, I mean just standing there, watch it raining pennies.
Was this your first official investigation of this kind?
Oh no, my first case actually was even more extraordinary.
One of my first cases took place in 1968, but we had a case in 1970 where another clear indication, which is again in Chapter 1, of a haunting of a house in the Hyde Park district near Englewood.
Yes.
And the people in the house were killed in a car accident.
The neighbors didn't know that they were dead, but they kept seeing them taking up the garbage doing the lawn.
Right.
The relatives of the deceased people called us in, and while in the house we saw some things move around.
Furniture was, you know, somehow manipulated in the environment without any physical, I guess, interdiction.
But what was more remarkable was we were holding sort of a little fan from the house.
in August of 1970.
We didn't know what the people that lived there looked like.
We had no idea except they were elderly.
At one point, we heard some strange sounds and I went into the part of the room that
he was going on.
All right, hold it right there.
Good cliffhanger point, and we'll be right back to you.
It's the bottom of the hour.
Absolutely incredible.
I'm Art Bell.
So this is Dreamland.
Hello Broadcast.com audience.
Oh man, what an incredible story.
Absolutely incredible.
I'm going to give you a slow version of the phone numbers now, and we're going to begin taking calls, so anybody who wants to call now is welcome to.
The first-time caller line is area code 702-727-1222.
That's if you've never called before, obviously.
The wildcard line is area code 702-727-1295.
222. That's if you've never called before, obviously. The wildcard line is area code 702-727-1295.
We have two toll-free lines, one for west of the Rockies, which is good in Canada and
At 1-800-618-8255.
1-800-618-8255.
And east of the Rockies as well at 1-800-825-5033.
618-8255-1800, 618-8255, and east of the Rockies as well at 1-800-825-5033.
That's 1-800-825-5033. What a remarkable story.
So anyway, those are the lines you can begin calling now.
Dr. Barry Taft is my guest and we will resume the program in about four minutes.
.
most remarkable story that I think I've ever heard.
I don't know.
I'd become incontinent, I think.
In other words, I'd wet my pants.
I don't know why I'm talking about this right now, but I'm telling you.
How would the rest of you do psychologically if something like that happened to you?
I think that you would have to be an investigator.
You would have to be in the field.
And if you were a casual presence, you happen to be in the house when that went on, you'd wet your pants and then you'd run or something.
I don't know how anybody could stay in place.
uh... coming on broadcast in about two minutes ...
...
By the way, one more note.
Anybody wanting to ask a fax question, you can fax me at area code 702-727-8499.
702-727-8499.
Thank you for watching .
.
800-825-5033.
West of the Rockies, 1-800-618-8255, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico.
First time callers may reach Art at area code 702-727-1222.
Or, call Art on the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
Now again, here's Art Bell.
Again, here I am.
We're going to finish up this story, and shortly we are going to begin taking calls for Dr. Taff.
I'm still stuck back in the pennies.
And I'll kind of repeat what I told the Broadcast.com audience during the break here in a moment.
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Alright, back now to Dr. Barry Taft, who was at the UCLA Parapsychology Department 1969 through 1978, and really is a remarkable man.
Dr. Taft, you're back on the air again.
And we were right in the middle of a cliffhanger here.
Right.
This was, as we were saying, a case in the Hyde Park District, or Englewood, so to speak, in 1970.
While investigating the house, we were conducting a seance to see if we could make anything happen, because we didn't feel like waiting for it indefinitely.
And after the seance ended, I was mandering about the house, and suddenly there was a large man in there who was not part of our group.
And he was tall, white hair, stocky, wearing a khaki-colored shirt and pink slacks.
And, literally, he starts attacking me, starts strangling me and choking me.
And, you know, I'm not a very large man, he picked me up and threw me in the bathtub, jumped on top of me, started strangling me while he was going, get out of my house, get out, this is my house.
So there were five other, six other men there, and they attacked him, and they started hitting him, and they beat him off into the floor.
So in other words, this, now... This is a normal man, we saw a guy just start beating me up, attacking me.
Was he part of the group that was- No, he wasn't part of our group.
Now, how did this man appear?
We just, he almost like he came in while we were in the other room, and we just encountered him as he walked in from the door.
But we didn't see him come in, we just saw him there.
Oh my.
So we just assumed it was, you know, a neighbor or a plower or, you know, God knows what.
So meanwhile, he attacked me, they beat him off me, um, um, he's on the floor, and I get out my shirt, my neck's red, My shirt's torn, my jacket's torn.
We see this older man just fade away, like in a movie, just dissolve.
What's left is the man who brought us into the house.
And he's taller and much younger.
He was a cadet at the police academy at that time.
And we just stood there like, what?
He came to, and he was bruised.
He didn't remember anything that had happened.
And we described what we had seen, and he was shocked.
We helped him up to his feet.
He excused himself, and he went to the bedroom, pulled a picture out of his dead grandfather, who was the one that he told us was haunting the house, who up to that time we had never seen.
And the picture he showed us was exactly what we saw attack me.
You know, whether it was the first story you told about the pennies falling, Or the one you just now told?
As I told my audience during the break, or some of my audience during the break, look, I'm really going to be honest with you.
If one of those things happened to me, I'd wet my pants, I'd run, and I don't know when I'd stop.
I mean, it would scare me so thoroughly, so profoundly, that I couldn't handle it.
I don't know that I can handle it.
An objective investigator like yourself, how do you handle that?
I guess it's the same mentality that goes along with it.
I also race cars.
I used to fly jets.
When you're willing to get on a racetrack at 180 miles an hour, and you're willing to
And your life's on the line if you make an error in judgment or someone else does, or the car malfunctions, you die in an instant.
That's true.
That to me is a lot more life-threatening than this type of investigation is.
So maybe I'm a risk taker, maybe I'm just not worried about what-ifs, or maybe I think real-world potential harm has a great deal more fear for me than this fringe reality does.
I don't know, it's just for some reason it just doesn't bother me.
You call it fringe reality?
Because it's not part of most people's daily life.
So it is a fringe reality for most people because they read about it, they hear about it, they see a special documentary, they see a movie, they listen to your show, they read books, but they don't necessarily have direct encounters with this as regularly as perhaps I or people I work with.
Alright, here's a zinger for you, and then we're going to go to the phones.
Do you think That there is more of this manifesting now today in 1998 than there was in 1980 or 70 or 60 or less?
It's a real hard question to answer because one, we have more people.
More people would generally assume there'd be more encounters or experiences because there's a higher probability of it.
Also, a lot of this is an extension of the human psyche.
Douglas Goldstein, CFP®, is the director of Profile Investment Services and the host of the Goldstein on Gelt radio show.
He is a licensed financial professional both in the U.S.
and Israel.
Securities offered through Portfolio Resources Group, Inc., Member FINRA, SIPC, MSRB, NFA, SIFMA.
Accounts carried by National Financial Services LLC.
Member NYSE®, a Fidelity Investments company.
His book Building Wealth in Israel is available in bookstores, on the web, or can be ordered at www.profile-financial.com.
How are you doing, Eric?
My name's Eric.
I'm in Milwaukee.
Milwaukee.
Hi, Eric.
How are you?
Fine.
Well, you know, I guess I tend to agree with you.
If that ever happened to me, I suppose I'd wet my pants, too.
Probably the reason why I had to turn off your show the other night on the impending or possible impending nuclear holocaust.
It scared the hell out of me.
I couldn't even listen anymore.
No, I know.
It scared me, too.
My own shows frequently do that.
Yeah, that's the first time I've heard that.
Anyway, question for Dr. Taft.
Don't you think there would be hard empirical data at this point that showing the presence of ghosts or phenomena of the such or don't we currently have the technology yet to detect it?
All right, that's a really good question.
So many years, so many cases, where is the hard data?
Well, that's an excellent question and there is a multifaceted answer.
One is The phenomenon itself is transient, and it's extremely evasive.
So that means you have to be in the right place at the right time with your instrumentation in the attempt to document it.
And then, of course, whatever it is must in some way cooperate or be responsive to your attempts.
Secondly, up until recently, we didn't have the technology en masse, as we do today, to document this.
So it would be like the equivalent analogy A good analogy would be that, you know, I go to an airport, planes crash.
How often have we recorded the actual crash?
Oh, that's right.
Almost never.
Very occasionally.
Maybe at an air show where everybody's got a camcorder focused on it.
That's about it.
Otherwise, no.
And today, with more people having camcorders, you know, video cameras, you're getting more UFO activity, whatever.
But also, it should be understood that this phenomenon Doctor, has it ever been thought that possibly these aren't dead roaming people, but just different dimensions?
There's numerous theories about what we're dealing with, and the best way to describe it is we're measuring the effect of an unknown cause.
Sometimes we call it psychokinetic, depending on the environment.
Sometimes we call it ghosts or hauntings.
The bottom line is, we don't know.
Alright, going back to the basis of the caller's question though, maybe you could cite the best evidence we have, the best physical evidence that's been gathered in any case.
The evidence wouldn't, if you took it to trial, for example the entity case, and like the San Pedro case, both of which are chronicled in my book, we have a vast amount of photographic and video evidence captured and documented on these cases.
Yet if forced into court, these would be considered at best suggestive of a phenomenon we have
yet to even understand.
It does not prove ghosts exist, but it strongly suggests that there's something out there
that can somehow affect our physical world and do physical things, some of which is producing
lights.
It's very rare to get an apparition on film or video.
So what about actual temperature reduction recordings, what about audio recordings, what
about magnetometer readings and microwave readings, and what do we know?
These types of, various types of physical parameters, like you said, the background, like the dielectric constant, or thermal imaging, or microwave, or temperature, they're all inclusive in terms of this type of investigation.
However, we don't know enough about what, why the ambience changes under these conditions to really understand what it is the phenomena represents.
In other words, The phenomena alter the environment, or does the altered environment make the phenomena occur?
We don't know what comes first, the chicken or the egg.
But there is a body of actual hard evidence, small albeit hard evidence.
The evidence is there, but I should tell you, Art, and tell the caller, that if forced into court, the evidence for UFOs would win a case.
It's voluminous.
The evidence for ghosts is much weaker, and it's more anecdotal and suggestive.
The UFO evidence is kind of Mind-boggling.
I just can't imagine that if something very, and I don't mean to sound skeptical, but I can't imagine if it didn't, if there wasn't something compelling, it wouldn't be on ABC News and NBC News, and it wouldn't be splashed all over the tabloids.
You're dead right.
No, you're right.
You're dead right, Colin.
And that probably will happen.
The first time somebody does record something like this, like a plane crash, But then again, you could go back to the Mexico City UFO sighting.
How many times did people see it up here on the news?
None that I know of.
None.
Right.
Very few.
And hundreds of thousands of people saw that.
Thanks to written Lee Elders, we've seen them, but the good doctor is right.
The amount of UFO evidence, if taken to court, or even better yet, a congressional hearing, would probably prevail.
But not with regard to ghosts or not with regard to an afterlife.
And if you want to know the truth, if I had one of the two questions that I would want to be answered more, that is to say the UFO question or the life after death question, I'm going for the life after death question every time.
And here we have the least amount of evidence.
But also it's the one that affects the human condition the most profoundly.
What do you think would be the effect on the human condition, Doctor, if we had conclusive evidence that there was no existence after death?
Have you ever contemplated that?
Actually, more the reverse of that, but I think if it was objectively established that when we died, that's it.
We just rot in a grave and that's the end of it.
Douglas Goldstein, CFP®, is the director of Profile Investment Services and the host of the Goldstein on Gelt radio show.
He is a licensed financial professional both in the U.S.
and Israel.
Securities offered through Portfolio Resources Group, Inc., Member FINRA, SIPC, MSRB, NFA, SIFMA.
Accounts carried by National Financial Services LLC.
Member NYSE®, a Fidelity Investments company.
say in the next 50, 60 or 70 years, there's going to be any hard data coming out one way
or the other and if there is any data at all, it will probably end up supporting the existence
of another reality that sort of reinforces the notion that life exists once the body
is dead.
I hope and I pray that you are correct but I must be absolutely honest with you and my
audience.
I don't know that to be the case.
I don't know that to be the case.
On the other hand, believe me, if I'd been in a room where pennies started to fall out of the ceiling until they got ankle-deep I'd feel very differently.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Barry Taft.
Hi.
Good evening, gentlemen.
Pleasure to talk to you again.
Where are you, sir?
My name's Bill.
I live outside of Cleveland, Ohio in Willow Lake on the lakefront.
Yes, sir.
I was going to have a question for Dr. Taft, but may I support some comment?
You were just talking about life after death, if I may.
I had the experience of witnessing my mother passing on.
She'd been on life support for an undue amount of time while The courts are still trying to settle out when a person was legally dead.
Yes.
But when they turned the machine off, I just had to share this with you.
I was thinking about it as you're talking.
Her body stopped breathing.
Oh, I'd say it's hard to imagine a moment like that.
You can't gauge time.
But I would guess at least a minute.
And I kept watching the scope that had been measuring all the electrical impulses through her body.
And I watched the wave get narrower and narrower and narrower.
And then it just dawned on me.
I thought she probably taught me the greatest lesson she'd ever taught me throughout my whole experience with her was, yes, there was an energy that went somewhere.
You know, as Dr. Test says, it can't change state, but it went somewhere.
It went somewhere, yes.
And I had to believe that was her.
How else could you explain it?
I don't know.
Well, I'll give you one story that I can't erase from my mind that was told to me recently.
It was a caller, I think, or a faxer.
But this person was with a relative like you were when they died.
And in a sort of loving final gesture as that dying moment came, my caller threw their body over the body of the person who was at the moment of death.
And they felt the person or the person's spirit pass right through them.
Wow.
Yeah, I can't get that out of my mind.
Yeah, there is something.
Have you ever heard of anything of that sort, doctor?
Oh yes, I've heard of it in many different accounts and books.
People speak of it.
I've also went into it in various investigations where people described situations similar
to that.
My question is, this is something that happened to me personally 25 years ago.
I was intense in my work as a project engineer and I'd have occasion to get up in the middle
of the night when I was having something trouble me and I'd work it out and I'd have intense
specifications.
That's probably why I'm recuperating from a heart attack right now.
But anyways, we lived a little further west of where we're here now but we always for
some reason lived on the lake shore and I was sitting in the dining room working out
this situation, this one specification.
I kept hearing these little voices going, you know, in the background and I said, let's
kids up again on next door to the sleep out a lot And it occurred to me, well, it was well into September, and they couldn't be.
So I get up and I walk to the back door, and in the window we had like a portion that had butted our dining room there.
And I look out, and nobody's there.
So, well, maybe I'm hearing things.
So I go back.
I'm working.
This is like 3, 3.30 in the morning.
I heard it again.
I get up, and I go, and I look around.
Okay, who's horsing around out there?
Couldn't see anything.
I finally went back and went back to my work.
I kept hearing it sporadically.
I said, the hell with it.
I'm just going to go on with my work.
And I had occasion to travel a lot when we lived in that house.
And my wife and even my kids used to come.
They'd always hear the darndest things in this house.
And it was in a well-developed area.
It wasn't out in the middle of nowhere.
And I didn't know how to ever classify that.
I don't know if Dr. Tass ever heard of situations like this that's fairly commonplace, or is it a figment of a person's imagination, or what?
All right, Doctor.
Douglas Goldstein, CFP®, is the director of Profile Investment Services and the host of the Goldstein on Gelt radio show.
He is a licensed financial professional both in the U.S.
and Israel.
Securities offered through Portfolio Resources Group, Inc., Member FINRA, SIPC, MSRB, NFA, SIFMA.
Accounts carried by National Financial Services LLC.
Member NYSE®, a Fidelity Investments company.
His book Building Wealth in Israel is available in bookstores, on the web, or can be ordered group telepathic experience would be almost astronomical.
What it did was when the voice activator recorders were set up, phenomena just wouldn't occur.
When he turned them off, they would occur, again, including an intelligent response,
almost an evasive response on the part of the phenomena.
This was another one of our cases that strongly suggested a haunting versus a poltergeist.
It made up for this particular case that the phenomena compensated for that in other more
blatant and aggressive ways.
Those voices, we've heard them, we've in vain attempted to record them, and they've been
reported to us by hundreds of people over the years.
This is not unusual.
Although it helps if there's more than one person hearing the voice.
A collective sighting or experience or independent corroboration really lends substantiation and objectivity.
You're on one scale.
You know, I interview an incredible man called Father Malachi Martin, advisor to two popes and the quintessential exorcist, and he's been doing exorcisms for years, and there's no question In this man's mind, but he is convinced, Doctor, that it is a demonic.
And when we come back, I see we're at the top of the hour already again.
I would like to ask you whether you think there are demonic presences as well, so I will do that.
But again, straight into the area of, do we exist?
Is there an existence beyond physical life?
Well, I'll tell you.
It's the $64 billion question.
What do you think?
How many real atheists are there out there?
I suspect, I'm not sure, but I suspect Not too many real ones.
I'm Art Bell and this is Dreamland.
all right hello there broadcast dot com audience uh...
Let me give you a rendition of the phone numbers again.
I see we're getting an excellent response.
Thank you all.
But this is one wild show.
How about the rest of you?
You're still a little shaky on whether there might be an existence after this life?
No, I have to admit it.
I really am.
I'm shaky about it.
I'm hopeful and I pray about it, but I'm such a hands-on kind of person that I just don't know.
I just don't know.
How about you?
And I know some of the response is going to be, oh, come on, Art.
You have to have faith, and I don't know why I can't.
Faith implies a leap beyond the available evidence to believe in something, and I'm not yet to that point.
My fault.
Anyway, listen, here are the phone numbers if you want to be on after the news break, which I will bring up here in a moment.
First-time callers, area code 702-727, One, two, two, two.
Wildcard Line.
Area code 702-727-1295.
East of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
That's 1-800-825-5033 here or in Canada.
And west of the Rockies, 1-800-618-8255.
727-1295, east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033, that's 1-800-825-5033, here or in Canada,
and west of the Rockies, 1-800-618-8255, that's 1-800-618-8255.
Let's see what's new in the world, and then it's back to Dr. Taft.
This is Dreamland.
USA Radio Network News, this is Russ Ross.
Secretary of State Madeleine Albright is heading to East Africa for the weekend.
She'll visit the bombed-out U.S.
Embassy sites in Nairobi and Da'es Salaam as a goodwill gesture that the U.S.
remains in a friendly status with both countries.
Meanwhile, the helicopter carrier, the USS Saipan, and a landing ship, the USS Tortuga, are steaming toward the Democratic-Republican Congo to be ready to evacuate Americans.
The commander on that Saipan ship is Captain Dick Enderle.
The primary means, because it's quickest, would be by helicopter, but it varies from situation to situation.
Accessibility to a suitable place to land, a landing craft, would dictate whether or not we could use them.
And the same would go for helicopters as well.
And the power crisis in the Congo is escalating.
The White House is denying a published report the U.S.
tried to interfere with U.N.
weapons inspections.
The report says the U.S.
sought to prevent U.N.
arms inspections in Iraq.
It says surprise visits to weapons sites were cancelled after Secretary Albright argued the timing was wrong since the U.S.
wished to avoid a new crisis with the Baghdad government.
White House spokesman Mike McCary admits the U.S.
government does consult with the U.N.
monitors, but he says the U.S.
has no authority over them and never ordered the inspectors to curtail their visits.
Connie Luong, USA Radio News, the White House.
This is USA Radio News.
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President Clinton testifies Monday before the grand jury investigating his activities with a former White House intern.
Sources at the White House say depending on how that testimony goes, the president will either make a national televised statement or a brief White House statement.
In Bangkok, Thailand, New Jersey Republican Congressman Chris Smith says the government of Myanmar, which is the former Burma, is releasing 17 young activists.
Six of those are Americans and he says Myanmar did get some bad publicity over this.
It certainly brings a lot of floodlight of scrutiny to the Rangoon military government.
The activists were handing out pro-democracy leaflets.
Meanwhile, balloonist Steve Fawcett's hot air trip around the world is back on track.
We're pretty close to an O-9-0, which is due east.
And so the maneuverment, it did succeed.
We're very happy with it.
Alan Vaught is Fawcett's Director of Mission Control.
Fawcett's over the Indian Ocean.
He hopes to hit Australia in a couple of days.
This is USA Radio News.
Hi, I'm David Oreck, and I'm proud that over a million of my 8-pound Oreck XL hotel vacuums are used around the world.
What makes me really proud is that the Oreck XL Upright, all of its parts and pieces, are made in the good old USA.
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Union Maintenance Workers for Conrail, Structural Railroad, 3400.
3,400 walk off the job over the use of outside contractors.
Conrail contends that strike is illegal and is now seeking a court order to end the walkout.
The producer price index suggests an increase of two-tenths of one percent since the Elada is with Standard & Poor's DRI.
It was another boring number.
0.2 percent may seem high when you've seen minus 0.1 and zero.
But most of that reflected an increase in auto prices, and that's simply an artifact of the fact that incentive programs and buyer loyalty discount coupons all expired at the end of June.
Turning to Wall Street today, the Dow finished the week on the downside again, off 34.5 points to close at 84.25, even decliners again led advancers in heavy trading.
Russ Rossman on the USA Radio Network.
Okay, I've got one line open and available, which is the east of the Rockies toll-free line at 1-800-825-5033.
1-800-825-5033.
at 1-800-825-5033. 1-800-825-5033. Broadcast in about one minute.
1-800-825-5033.
To talk with Art Bell on Dreamland from the Kingdom of Nigh, from east of the Rockies, Dial 1-800-825-5033.
West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, 1-800-618-8255.
If you're a first-time caller to Dreamland, reach Art at area code 702-727-1222.
caller to dreamland, reach out at area code 702-727-1222.
This is dreamland with Art Bell.
It is indeed and my guest is Dr. Barry Taff and we're talking about actually many things
His new book is Aliens Above, Ghosts Below, Explorations of the Unknown.
We'll tell you how to get that, by the way, or when it's going to become available.
I would love to hear from you.
I've got a fax here, and I've got certainly a big question about things demonic.
Now, as we were discussing just prior to the break, As you well know, if you're a listener of my show, I've had Father Malachi Martin on many times, and he's a pretty convincing guy when it comes to the fact that these are demonic presences.
We'll get back to Dr. Taft in a moment.
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Well, alright, once again, Dr. Barry Kaff.
Doctor, welcome back.
Great.
Alright, I know this is going to put you really on the spot, but as I said, I've interviewed Dr. Martin many times, Father Martin, and there is no doubt in his mind whatsoever about heaven and hell and God and Satan Well, first of all, as a researcher and an investigator with a scientific orientation, our desire and intent is to try to document and learn something about the nature of the phenomena.
the researcher and investigator with a scientific orientation, our desire and intent is to try
to document and learn something about the nature of the phenomena. Not much is known
about it. It's more speculative at this point, but if you come from a religious perspective,
obviously, based on all the writings of the Bible, people for millennia have thought this
to be demonic, or some people suspected that to be.
But basically, it's sort of like the three blind men holding the elephant.
Depending on what you perceive and what you're holding and how you interpret that, you call what you're experiencing something different.
I don't even like to deal with the religious implications, because it muddies the water.
It's difficult enough trying to really establish a credible base of information regarding the phenomenon, when you bring in religious... Well, in other words, when you're taking the scientific approach, the religious angle muddies the water.
Oh, terribly so.
It doesn't mean it doesn't have any merit, it just means that it creates more noise than we currently need.
All right, and I don't want the audience to take that the wrong way.
You're listening to somebody coming at all of this from a very scientific perspective, and that's not putting down religion in any way, if I'm hearing this correctly.
It's simply saying we can't mix it in with magnetometers and recorders and video camcorders and the rest of it, right?
I've got a fax here from Kevin who asks about the pennies.
I'm curious too.
We didn't really finish that.
I mean, you said you were ankle deep in pennies that fell from the ceiling.
He asks, what did they look like?
Were they new?
Were they dated?
Did they all have the same date?
Were they in circulation?
Alright, well, look, let me go back, I've got a fax here from Kevin who asks about the
Old?
pennies.
I'm curious too, we didn't really finish that.
I mean, you said you were ankle deep in pennies that fell from the ceiling.
He asks, what did they look like?
Were they new?
Were they dated?
Did they all have the same date?
Were they in circulation?
Old, dirty, what?
Pretty much a potpourri, old, new, dirty, clean, they weren't out of circulation.
They were pennies.
We never could determine a source, but it didn't end with that.
We had fires spontaneously break out in the house.
We had a news crew from KTTV, which is now Fox, they were chased out of the house.
This is the Hollymont case in chapter one of my book.
They were chased out of the house by flying objects.
In fact, an ice tray flew at them, a sack of napkins flew at them, and they ran out
of the front of the house.
Connie Fox, the newswoman, the newscaster, there was a V-shaped stairwell in front of
the house, a big stairway, and she ran out of the house screaming.
A huge book flew over the house, flapping its pages like wings, followed her down the
front of the house, making three distinct angled turns, meaning nine-degree turns that
just followed down the stairs and dropped at her feet.
Holy moly.
And she was hysterical.
Well, I'd be catatonic.
And we tried to capture some of this, but our equipment was failing.
The power on the block and the house was going out.
The street lamp in front was blinking, and it wasn't even on at that time.
Well, let me tell you, I know there's something to this, because I have talked with other professional camera crews with fresh Betacam batteries in that just flat failed.
And the minute they would go out of the house or out of the area, They function, again, in the area, they don't work at all.
Right, and this is, a lot of times in the course of these investigations, the phenomena, which just turns off your instrumentation, shuts it down.
But, you see, more miraculous than a turning off equipment is what we call a port, where objects will appear and disappear in front of you.
Yes.
And in the Holliman case, I just put a glass of iced tea down next to me on a cabinet, I don't think.
There was some lemon in it.
I turned back from the refrigerator.
It was gone.
I found it through two locked doors, two rooms away that I had locked.
So that gets very interesting.
You've just got to really have big cojones to do this kind of thing.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Barry Taff.
Hi there.
Hi, Dr. Taft.
Where are you, sir?
I'm calling right outside of Reno, Nevada.
Okay.
I'm Ray.
Doctor, I have a couple of questions for you.
Our time is short here, but something that happened to me about five years ago.
I was working at a youth camp on an Indian reservation here in Nevada, and I was coming out of the camp one night to take one of the boys to the hospital near my community.
I'm on the way back.
I see these faces.
Now, keep in mind, this is on Native American land.
I see these faces.
I'm looking at bushes, and all of a sudden, they turn into faces for what seemed like a split second, and then just disappeared.
Needless to say, I was quite beside myself, and I've checked, consulted with several different Native American, what they call medicine men, if you will.
Hello?
Yeah, go ahead.
And they just didn't seem to have an answer.
I don't mind telling you.
My story here, of course, is not as dramatic as yours, but it just scared me.
Now, could this just be the reason?
I mean, I'm asking why?
Why would they reveal themselves to me?
Would there be just one reason or another?
All right, well, Doctor, let me back that up with something else regarding Native Americans.
Denver International Airport, was built over what a lot of Native Americans are claiming was sacred Native American territory, ground, and DIA has been absolutely plagued with some of the worst kind of troubles you can possibly imagine, and to this very day they're having those troubles.
So this man encountered what he thought were Native American spirits, ghosts, whatever you want to call them, It's not that uncommon actually.
I've heard many stories over the years of people, not quite identical to what this man has described, but similar in that they've had it on Native American grounds where they've had run-ins with something that really unnerved them, sometimes glowing apparitions, sometimes full-bodied apparitions, sometimes faces.
The problem is it's really hard to know what it is you're dealing with because it's a subjective experience.
You don't have a camera.
There aren't a whole bunch of people observing the same thing.
This is a question that I frequently ask people like yourself.
that's affecting you or is it some force in the environment that's trying to
subtly communicate with you? No one knows. This is a real hard thing to pin down.
This is a question that I frequently ask people like yourself. Do you anticipate,
doctor, that number one during our lifetimes this question about life after
death will be settled? Do you think that's possible?
No, unquestionably not.
I think it's going to be, and I'll tell you that I would be surprised that if there are breakthroughs in this area, which is problematic at best, but if there were real breakthroughs, that information would probably be withheld or disseminated over a long period of time because it would be very shocking to a lot of people one way or the other.
It's the same thing regarding if, let's say, the whole can of worms regarding the UFO phenomena was dumped into Douglas Goldstein, financial planner & investment advisor, interviewed Jones on Arutz Sheva Radio.
People are real content to just move along, live their lives, be happy, have food, have
shelter, have friends, have family, experience love and rest and recreation.
They don't need their lives disrupted and put into turmoil.
And if you start contemplating other worlds that you have no control over, that makes
life more difficult.
You're on air with Dr. Barry Taff.
Hi.
Hello, Art.
This is Mike in Edison, New Jersey.
Usually we listen to you over WCTC in New Brunswick, first time on broadcast.com.
Pleasure to speak with you.
Glad to have you.
Dr. Taff, somewhat along the lines of Art's first caller, I'm very skeptical about ghosts.
In particular, I usually hear about ghosts in the context of human apparitions.
In your experience and work, have you ever encountered The first case I ever investigated, which of course is in the book, occurred 30 years ago in 1968.
Pasadena, a very nice elderly couple, called me and came out there and they described they had a phantom cat.
The first case I ever investigated, which of course is in the book, occurred 30 years
ago in 1968.
Pasadena, a very nice elderly couple, called me and came out there and they described they
had a phantom cat.
Their cat died and they were experiencing it.
Of course, the most logical interpretation is they're morbidly depressed.
They're missing the cat.
They had it for many years and they're hallucinating.
But I'm interviewing them.
They're describing their experiences and their psychological and medical background.
In the midst of this interview, something jumps on my lap.
I can't see it, but I can feel the pause, feel the pause, and it's kneading, pulling at my pants.
And before I go to be able to touch it, it jumps off my lap, onto the couch, and the couch depresses in response to it.
Nothing was physically visible to the eye.
Oh my god, that really happened, huh?
And I mean, I jumped.
Because, you know, I didn't expect anything to occur.
I'm interviewing these people.
And that really, you drove a point home, that something was occurring beyond these people's imagination.
All right, but the implication here is that animals have the same opportunity at some sort of, I'm not going to say afterlife, continued existence after physical death, some sort of opportunity, as do we, which implies I mean, we call it a soul in human beings.
What is it in a cat?
Well, why shouldn't there be a soul?
They experience emotion.
They have likes and dislikes.
They have needs and wants.
They have feelings.
Oh no, it's true.
It's true.
And they bond very strongly to their owners.
You're talking here to a cat person.
I've got three cats.
I'm also a cat lover.
This one got to me a little bit.
Oh God, I could feel a cat jump in my lap.
I know exactly what you mean by the needing motion.
I just don't know how you make it through life, doctor.
I guess because if something isn't a direct or implied threat, it doesn't bother me.
If something puts a gun to my head, I'm going to jump.
If I see a knife coming at me, I'm going to run.
If I see a car plunging towards me, I'm going to move.
But these things, except for one of the cases we discussed earlier, generally are not threatening.
It's just that we don't know what it is, so we have a fight-or-flight response.
You bet.
Now, things flying through the air, knives, that sort of thing, or a book chasing me, I just, I absolutely couldn't handle that.
Would you say, again, this represents, this kind of real physical manifestation we're talking about here, represents what, about 10% of the cases?
Probably five.
Five.
The only reason is that, I should preface this, or clarify it, It's real rare to be in these environments when the phenomena transpires.
Most of the time, you go out, you interview the people, you do some background checking and questioning, and that's it.
It's very uncommon to be there when the phenomena occurs.
It's like being in an airport when a plane crashes.
It's like astronomical.
We go in expecting nothing, and most of the time, nothing happens.
That doesn't mean there's nothing there.
It doesn't mean something is there.
It's just that we are not present with sufficient frequency to encounter the phenomena.
Well, of course, followers of most mainstream religions, particularly, at least in the West, would really bristle at even the mention of the possibility of animals having souls.
And I'm not sure if you're aware, but there was a study done by a doctor, I had it posted on my website, way back in the late 1800s, It was a good, sound, scientific study of people who were measured, actually put on scales at the moment of death, and at the exact instant of death, they lost three quarters of one ounce.
Now, they did the same experiment with animals and noted no change.
Now, of course, in 1998, You could never in a gazillion years do this kind of an experiment, a controlled experiment.
I don't think you could politically get away with it, but there was that one well-documented experiment.
I posted it up on the website.
It had been myth and then I finally found it.
That would imply that there's an actual weight involved in whatever leaves us at the moment of death.
But there's also an alternative explanation, which is a little more prosaic, and that is when the physical body dies, there are ongoing processes that cease, that terminate.
Some of these involve hydrostatic pressure, fluid balance, gases, and Those collectively might constitute the loss you described in that study.
They might, but that was included in the study.
In other words... I don't think they had the technology in those days to really deal with that adequately, which might be why.
But also, animals being much smaller in their physical structure, it might be such a marginal... Hard to measure, in other words.
Right, but again, with current technology and our greater understanding of physiology, both human and animal, We might be able to look at this data with a different perspective and get a greater insight on it.
I was talking with one of my, I can't recall which guest now, and I related this recent out-of-body experience I had in Paris and the guest told me, guess what, that's as dead as you're ever going to be.
Now, do you buy into that?
Does he mean dead in terms of No, but when he said, that's as dead as you're ever going to be, the ecstasy that I felt, that I still can't properly describe in words, honestly, this incredible, wonderful feeling that I felt is as dead as I'm ever going to be.
In other words, death will mimic or go beyond even that.
I sort of mostly concur with what you're saying.
As I said, when I was younger, I had a large amount of autobot experiences and it was very pleasant once you overcome the shock of it, the almost trauma.
It's a very pleasant, tranquil experience because you can pretty much go anywhere by sheer thought and once you realize that you're not in any jeopardy, it's a very sort of Douglas Goldstein, CFP®, is the director of Profile Investment Services and the host of the Goldstein on Gelt radio show.
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That's what I want to know.
Can we actually document that people leave their bodies?
There does seem to be a body of evidence.
Charles Tartt at UC Davis has done remarkable research strongly suggesting that something
quasi-tangible can be detected by perhaps animals or instrumentation and certainly that
we can bring back objective information remote from our body.
Oh look, there are so many guests I have on.
Dr. Bruce Goldberg They have actually documented people who have left their bodies, gone to other states, seen things that have then been absolutely verified, that could not possibly have been known in any other way.
I mean, there's a lot of documented evidence about this, but again, this is something that's done while we're alive.
Right.
But why wouldn't... I should say, the reason I agree with what you said earlier, I believe that the out-of-body experience is probably as close as we can come, conceptually, to what it's like to not have our body anymore.
There may be an analogy to death, but the only difference is that there's no body to come back to.
Alright, when we get back after the break, I'm going to ask you about your book.
Tell me, Doctor, do you think this is going to be your field of study for the rest of your life?
Are you locked in now?
this up that i could uh... i would willingly lose the rest of my hair
uh... alright all gone will be back to you in a moment
from an area adjacent to an area called dreamland this is dreamland
I'm Art Bell.
Stay right where you are.
I will end it here, thank you for your attention, if you have any more questions or comments
about this podcast, please leave a comment, or if you have any questions, post that, I
will answer them. Thank you.
you you
you there broadcast dot com listeners uh...
You are more than invited to call us.
The West of the Rockies line, if you want to pick up the phone and ask a question about a very wide area of inquiry, as you can see, we are having a very, indeed, wide area of inquiry.
West of the Rockies, it is 1-800-618-8255.
It is 1-800-618-8255.
That's 1-800-618-8255.
of the Rockies, anywhere east of the Rockies, and this includes Canada as well, 1-800-825-5033.
1-800-825-5033.
1-800-825-5033.
And I would be particularly interested in any of you who have evidence or what you think
is evidence of life after death, relatives who have died, that sort of thing.
This is going to be an eternal... I don't know if I ought to use that word.
Anyway, it's going to be an area of inquiry for me during the rest of my life on Earth.
I guarantee that, as Dr. Taft just said.
So, any questions you have, we'd be glad to take your calls, and glad you're out there on broadcast.com.
You can also catch us actually doing the show on the website, on the studio cam, which I've got up right now.
you're listening to dreamland from nevada you
you you
you so
to talk with art bell on dreamland from the kingdom of nigh east of the rocky style one
West of the Rockies, 1-800-618-8255, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico.
1-800-618-8255, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico.
First-time callers may reach Art at area code 702-727-1222, or call Art on the wildcard
line at area code 702-727-1295.
Now again, here's Art Bell.
Once again, here I am, and we will ask Dr. Tapp in a moment about his book, and I've got several faxes here.
One available line west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
And somebody is about to comment, you'll hear it in the fax, on the pet situation.
That one, absolutely.
If you're a cat person, I'm sure that one blew you away.
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Alright, back now to... Back to, well, not quite back to my guest.
Back to my guest in a moment.
I'm Art Bell, and you're listening to Dreamliner.
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back to dr. taft doctor welcome back uh...
here's somebody expresses my
feelings hello art i hope you're feeling better i am thank you in
response to the pet ghost situation
i live in an old victorian house in alameda california i have several spirits with whom i coexist peacefully
One of my spirits is a Maine coon cat named Taylor.
He lived here in the flesh until 94 when he died a few months before his owner, who passed away in June of 94.
She's here too.
Her name is Sharon.
Many times I've seen Taylor's huge, fluffy self, though somewhat transparent.
He's also rubbed against my leg.
And I have not only felt it, but seen my trouser leg move!
I love my spirits, and they love me.
They are very protective.
Sandra, in Alameda.
Well, certainly a fresh look and attitude towards this phenomena, that's for sure.
And then one other.
We talked earlier briefly about voice phenomena.
And this question.
I'm sure Dr. Taft must have some good stories about electronic voice phenomena, and could we hear one?
Does he have any?
I should have hit you with that in the break when you could have prepared it.
Not really.
I know other people who are doing the work in it.
I haven't followed it that closely.
I've read books on the subject, and I know some of the people doing the work in it.
The best I could say is, I think last time I was on your show, I played a tape of a man allegedly possessed, and what was unique about the utterances coming forth from his mouth was they were analyzed by several different facilities, and we were told that this was not a human or an animal.
It was a machine, because there were pure sound waves coming out of his mouth, which are impossible to achieve for anything with a larynx.
So that made us wonder what's going on.
That's about as close as I've come to unusual sounds.
Generally speaking, in terms of all data, I prefer to go with what I myself have recorded because, especially when it comes to auditory things, there's so many variables and there's so many ways to misconstrue and misinterpret information.
I like it if it's my recorder, my instrument, my microphone, my tape.
Boy, do I understand that.
Someone else.
Because you never know.
And, you know, there's all sorts of extraneous variables that can play havoc with what you're doing if you're not really careful.
The other problem is we live in a day and age, and it is proven to me every day by these computer whizzes out there who send me photographs of myself with aliens and ghosts and, frankly, they're It's better than a lot of the purported true ghost photographs or alien photographs.
So how can you trust any evidence?
That's one of the real main gripes put forth by skeptics and debunkers, and it's a very good statement.
However, the logic that just because we can fake something, therefore everything is fake, is faulty logic.
Well, we can make a great movie about going to the moon, so I guess Apollo never, we never had the Apollo program.
Ah, I'm glad you brought that up, because several times, Doctor, I have put photographs up of things that I knew to be absolutely authentic, either because I took them myself, or because they occurred to me, and I, you know, I put them up, and even totally authentic things, you will get somebody who will say, I took out my Photoshop number six or whatever, and I went down to pixel number 597, and I saw a gray shaded area on the right.
Your photograph is a fake.
Now, that comes even when the photographs are genuine.
So we have this day and age where nothing is believed.
Oh yeah, I mean there are people out there who say that you get captured in the anomalous luminous activity.
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I'm not going to be able to do that.
Alright, your new book, I want to get that in before I somehow forget, because all of this is fascinating.
Aliens Above, Ghosts Below, Explorations of the Unknown.
When is the book, is it available now?
Right, it's currently available for immediate download off the internet, and the main site that's linked actually to your site is called www.netbooks.com and you can go to your site and
go directly to netbooks and you can download the book instead of the $24 for $9.95 and
it's got the photographs and the captioning and it's got 15 chapters and introduction
and it covers many of the cases we've talked of today in much greater depth and in the
other case, in fact, there's a lengthy discussion of the Antiquity case far beyond what
was originally published.
I read the original article and updated it with a preface and an afterword, about what happened to the woman afterward, all the rumors and speculation about who she was and everything, and why the movie didn't accurately reflect the book, and how the book didn't accurately reflect the reality.
It's a much broader view of the case.
Alright, your background has been mainly in paranormal phenomena.
What made you begin to examine the whole alien question all of a sudden?
Well, for one, probably back to the dawn of human civilization, most cultures have reported
phenomena beyond just paranormal, but reported odd aeroforms, and these weren't meteorites
or comets, these were objects that for all intents and purposes resembled modern UFOs.
That goes back to pre-biblical times, actually.
But beyond that, the amount of evidence that's been collected for the last half century and
documented in books and periodicals and journals is awesome.
But even more than that, as I said, many of our cases, we've had a plethora of cases that
began as poltergeist manifestations and ended up as an abduction or a CE3, or began as an
abduction and ended up as a poltergeist case.
Alright, well I asked you earlier if you thought in our lifetimes we might break through the
barrier of life and death, and you said no.
What if I were to ask you, do you think in our lifetimes we will begin to get answers or get answers regarding all of these things that fly in our skies, abduct, make crop circles, whatever it is they're doing?
I think we might, but it won't be at the behest of our government.
I don't think our government is going to open up a can of worms and say, here folks, we've been lying to you for half a century, and here's why.
So just panic, and we'll sit back and watch.
I don't think that's going to happen.
Although, the government, I recall Hazel O'Leary walking out and saying we've been lying to you for half a century, or near it, and that there were experiments where plutonium was My attitude is this, our government has only a couple of major concerns about the population.
Astonishing.
But I don't think these compel by comparison.
My attitude is this.
Our government has only a couple of major concerns about the population.
One is that they're governable.
Panic-stricken, anxiety-ridden, depressed, self-defeated population would not be governable
and they would not write checks every April 15th because they wouldn't care.
If we're not the supreme rulers on this world, why are they going to look up to the government
and pay them their money every year?
Why would they elect officials if we are the result of someone else's experiments?
And our leaders cannot protect us or our skies, assuming there's protection.
actually needed but cannot even safeguard up against you know
invasion or lack of i guess you say uh...
yeah invasion of of of of strange error forms well then why should we bother to pay the money
well instead we probably have to write out a check to the grays or something
or or somebody's gonna charges or and put that on the earlier
i think our religious institutions with faith radical revision
regarding if we if we are not made in god's image of pervading
some reptilian humanoid somewhere some you know light years away decided let's play with
three humans on earth and produce you know this will reveal the if this were true
uh... wouldn't have a humbling effect on most people No, no, it sure wouldn't.
And I get into this in the book in depth.
Do you?
In chapter 10, I go into this in depth about what's going on.
Basically, if you knew that the information you were going to disseminate to the people would devastate them and leave them self-negated, would you do it?
What's the point?
You're trying to keep the society functional and whole and integrated.
You're absolutely correct.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Taffan Art Bell.
Yes.
I have five ghosts in my home.
You have five ghosts?
I have five of them.
Where are you, sir?
I'm here in Farmington Hills, Michigan.
Did you listen to the audio, Nat?
Because I can't stay up all night.
That's fine.
That's where we are.
I have cats.
And I lost five of them here in the last two years.
Four this year.
And didn't have any... It was not a problem because they don't bother me.
What do they do?
I mean, how do you know you've got them?
How do I know?
Yeah.
They're here if I lay down on a couch, they'll jump and you'll hear them on the vinyl and they'll walk across it and they want to just sit down like they always did.
Or at night they'll come up and they'll pop up on the bed and each one always used to have a place of its own.
I know, I know.
And they'll come up and they'll knead right behind my head.
And one of them last night, my favorite cat, I know it was her, laid right on my arm.
You could feel the weight.
Oh my!
It's amazing, and I'm curious if I could somehow photograph them.
Oh, what a good question!
You know, I've got one of these VICAMs ordered for my computer, and it's got night vision.
I'm just curious if the infrared might pick it up.
Well, that's a good scientifically-based question.
Doctor, what about that?
I mean, if you've got an entity, human or animal, that is obviously present, And you want to try to document this somehow, want to try to photograph.
What would you try?
Well, we'd start with the greatest simplicity first.
You might try simple Polaroid to see if anything shows up in those shots.
You might try those new camcorders that have, I think it's called Night Spot or something.
Well, it's the new Sony camcorder that now they're claiming can see through clothing.
Well, CNN did a story on it last week, which said they tried under the brightest lights they could find, and they couldn't see through clothes.
So it's not like being Superman, but it's getting there.
Well, CNN did a story on it.
We're diverting here.
CNN did a story on it last week which said they tried under the brightest lights they
could find and they couldn't see through clothes.
Nevertheless, Sony has announced they will ship no more of these cameras to the U.S.,
which is causing a run on the existing stock.
Also, the whole thing is you shouldn't shoot in light at all.
You shoot in dim light or no light.
That's when you get the best resolution.
So they went in the wrong direction.
But to answer the caller's question, there are methods.
You can get an image intensifier, which they call a night vision.
Which certainly would probably help enhance the optical image.
Oh, yes.
That's presupposing, of course, that this phenomena emits, you know, very low-energy photons, either in the infrared or the visible spectrum.
Maybe you also get to get ultraviolet lenses.
You might try to shoot in that region with still film.
You may have some success.
Hey, caller?
Yes?
I've actually got something for you to try, all right?
Uh-huh.
If you have a device that emits infrared, something I discovered About two weeks ago, is that cats can see in infrared.
Can they?
And we can't.
And I proved this beyond any shadow of a doubt by, you know, I've got a little pen that emits, you know, like the laser pen.
Right, I've seen.
Only this one emits infrared.
And my cat absolutely would chase the infrared all over the place, and I couldn't see a thing.
I'll try that.
That should be interesting.
Alright?
If I get anything, we'll let you know.
All right, thank you very much, and take care.
Boy, oh boy, oh boy.
Again, being a cat person, I lost one cat, and I've never had a cat jump on me or knead on me that was a ghost of a cat, and I don't know that I'd want that.
But I've had very strong feelings that my cat, whose name was Yesu, has been present Or around me or near me.
Now that could be a manifestation of my own wishful thinking and my mind because I love that cat so much.
I don't know.
It's a very common arc for people who lose someone close to them, whether that be a pet or it be a loved one, husband, wife, father, mother, sister, brother, to really feel they're around, whether they be or not, simply because it's normal to have those feelings.
In fact, it's abnormal not to have those feelings.
So the question is, Are those feelings just because we're human and we want that bond to be maintained, or is it because something is present?
That's the million-dollar question, as we said.
Have you communicated with or had a dialogue with any atheists?
Over the years, in lectures I've given and classes I've taught, they've come forward and made their points clear to me or their views clear to me.
Are atheists almost as passionate, in their view, of the great nothing as those who believe in the great something?
Well, it's almost like a religion.
Well, they say that if there were such things as ghosts or aliens, it would have to be manifestations of God or the devil, and since there is no such thing as God or the devil, there is no phenomena.
So again, it's faulty logic.
The reasoning isn't very clear.
It's hard, really.
I don't waste a lot of my time and energy dealing with, you know, debunkers, or these hardcore skeptics, or people that have no open mind.
In other words, their mind's made up, they don't want to deal with the facts, because, you know, I mean, one debunker I was talking to on one show, I was on a TV show, you know, he said, no matter what evidence you bring me, or brought me, or no matter what I observed, I know this phenomenon doesn't exist.
I go, then why are you here?
You're not here to debate it.
You're here to tell everyone that you don't believe.
Was that Phil Glass?
No, this was someone else from PSYCOP.
Oh yes, I'm familiar with the group.
I get email from them in copious amounts.
I made it clear on the show that I understand how science functions of replicating your data in controlled environments and the replicability of the whole thing.
When I said this phenomena worked in accordance with the scientific method per se, It never occurred, we wouldn't be discussing it.
If it occurred all the time, again, it'd be no mystery, it'd be part of our world.
The fact that it occurs some of the time and not all the time tells us one very important
thing, and that is we're ignorant.
We're ignorant about a very powerful and dramatic aspect of the world we live in.
In other words, if we were smart enough, sensitive enough to this phenomenon, it would be your
view that we would see its manifestation virtually any time.
If we could make it work as reliable as the rest of our senses are, it would be a very
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and Israel.
Securities offered through Portfolio Resources Group, Inc., Member FINRA, SIPC, MSRB, NFA, SIFMA.
Accounts carried by National Financial Services LLC.
Member NYSE & SIPC, a Fidelity Investments company.
I'm not all the time to help us that we're missing out on something.
Now you remember I asked you earlier and we're running out of time I could do six programs
on this.
I asked you earlier if we were suddenly to find out there was a great nothing out there,
What effect on society?
How about the opposite question?
If we were to suddenly find out there is an afterlife, absolutely is an afterlife, what effect would that have on society?
My feeling is it might turn a lot more people towards religion, perhaps in the short term, and also it depends on what we learned about that afterlife.
What is it?
Well, no doubt we would get a partial answer.
We wouldn't get a whole answer.
We would find out somehow there is a barrier, there is something over there, but we don't yet quite know what it is, but we can declare there is something.
You're right, in the short term that would probably turn a whole lot of people toward religion.
We're out of time.
Thank you.
I hope lots of people go up online and download your book.
And, as always, we'll have you on again.
Thank you so very much.
It's my pleasure.
All right.
Take care.
Dr. Barry Tapp.
That's it, folks.
Out of time.
Thank you.
From an area near Dreamland, good night.
This has been Dreamland.
A program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped.
Yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
Please join us again next week, at this time, for Dreamland.
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