Art Bell

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June 12, 1998 - Art Bell

02:34:25

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Al Bielek - The Philadelphia Experiment

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al bielek

55:21

49:16

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For example, the committee chairman, Senator Robert Bennett, conducted his own private survey, good move, Bennett, of 10 power plants across the U.S. And Bennett found out that eight out of ten, I repeat, eight out of ten had not even begun to assess the problem, much less tried to fix it.
		So, will the lights go out and spoil the celebration?
		As 2000 is rung in, there is, I'm sorry to say, quite a possibility.
		Now, a lot of people might have thought of Gary North as very alarmist, but from what I can see, everybody in Washington who knows about this or who has bothered to investigate seems to feel exactly the same way.
		Interesting, huh?
		And this email, dear art, the NBC Morning News had a report today, but get this, featured Al Gore at the World's Oceanographic Conference.
		They are alarmed at the status of our oceans.
		Now, listen to this.
		The report also stated that we are now, check this out, declassifying top secret information as to the condition of the seas.
unidentified		What?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you can't just let that one fly by you.
		We are now declassifying top secret information as to the condition of the seas.
		Overfishing has depleted the World Sea food supply by about a third.
		Scores of marine life are dying due to the effects of pollution.
		And all of this heard over and over again on this program, of course.
		But now, now they are just beginning to say it officially.
		Can you believe that?
		The condition of the oceans was a matter of top-secret classification.
unidentified		What the hell?
unidentified		I mean, what the hell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The condition of our own oceans is a matter of top-secret classification?
		They're all out of their minds back there.
		Totally, completely out of their boards as far as I'm concerned.
		All right, we're going to have open here.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you're not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Our bell.
unidentified		That would be me.
		Yeah, this is Scott.
		Don't call him from Denver?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		This is KHOW 603.
		Okay, Hal.
		Yeah, I was talking about the Y2K deal.
		Yes.
		And I went up and I looked for Gary Nort's webpage.
		I also came up with another one, which is www.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would rather not give it on the air.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But look, after you've done the reading and you've seen the documentation, I think you can no longer doubt.
		And yesterday's hearings, I think, underscore the fact that Gary was right.
		We're not even close to ready.
		And even if we went to work right now, we couldn't do it.
		So that means that it's going to be an interesting new year.
unidentified		Well, you know, another thing, Clinton just signed another executive order.
unidentified		And what it does is wipes out all state laws.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know that he can do that.
unidentified		He just signed it.
		He signed it while he was in England.
		No, you see, we've got the 10th Amendment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, states' rights in the 10th Amendment Constitution.
unidentified		Well, you can get the things he just signed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, you can't modify the Constitution with a presidential signature, my friend.
unidentified		Hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You didn't know that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it takes a lot to modify the Constitution.
unidentified		I just got this email today, and I think I sent it your way.
		And another thing, Gary North is talking about have a lot of cash on hand.
		Now, after all this goes down, I would imagine the computers will go down.
		Wouldn't that also kill our monetary system?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's his point, sir.
unidentified		Yes, exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, what good is it going to do you to write a check?
unidentified		But exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, no, no.
		There will continue to be exchange made with money.
		But the rare thing is going to be money.
		I mean, the bank might not be there to give you your money, right?
		That doesn't mean money can't be used.
		It means that electronic money can't be used.
		So Gary Norris said what you should have is cash.
		Right.
unidentified		Yeah, because immediately after that, I started getting prepared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I mean, eventually things will limp back.
		I don't think it's going to be Armageddon for the entire human race.
		That may come sooner.
unidentified		Making Y2K academic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's one way to think about it.
		The other is that you have to imagine that we could make it to that moment.
		And if we do, you're going to in some way want to be prepared.
		And, you know, look, if you look at the congressional testimony yesterday, you've got to imagine that, as Gary Norris said, the power grid could easily fail because it is, of course, all interconnected.
		A few things you ought to do to get ready, huh?
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello?
unidentified		About a half hour, we're going to have Al Bielick here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Al Bielick is a survivor of the Philadelphia experiment.
		It's a show you're not going to want to miss.
		Here, ladies and gentlemen, is a man named Al Bielick.
		He's 71 years old.
		He is a survivor of the Philadelphia experiment.
		Actually, he was part of the experiment itself.
		So he is uniquely in history, qualified to comment on what this thing really was all about from Atlanta, Georgia.
		Here's Al Belick.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Al, welcome to the program.
		Thank you.
		I'm glad I finally got through to you.
		I was sitting here waiting, and as you say, there was a mix-up on the phone number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Eon, gee, you got me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I had to get the right number from somebody in Montreal.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		He called me and says, hey, you're supposed to be on our dollar show.
		I said, yeah, I know.
		I'm waiting here for the call.
		There hasn't been one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, anyway, thank goodness here you are.
		Right.
		You are in the middle of doing some kind of conference or something there in Adventure.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's the preparedness show put on by Dan Shuddergat of Salt Lake City.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It's here this weekend to Friday, Saturday, and Sunday at the Cop Galleria in Atlanta on the north side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When are you speaking?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I did already yesterday, Friday, and I will again today, Saturday at 8 p.m.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At 8 o'clock at night.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Our local time, of course, which is Eastern Daylight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For people in Atlanta, they can go see you.
		All right.
		Al, it's been a long time since we...
		Since we did an interview.
		I don't know how long.
		It seems like a couple of years.
		Oh, over a year at least.
		I guess we better go back to the beginning when all of this began.
		Now, when and how did you get involved in what became the Philadelphia experiment?
		I mean, if you go back to the first moment when somebody said something to you about it, or when you knew about it, when was that?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, when I knew what I was being involved in, along with my brother Duncan, was after we were on the project.
		We both finished our schooling.
		We both had PhDs in physics.
		I from Harvard and he from University of Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland.
		We enlisted in the Navy in September of 1939, went through a 90-day wonder school.
		Didn't know what we were to be assigned to, but this 90-day wonder school was for those who are selected for special programs.
		We were given commissions as we joined the Navy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You became J.G. You became a lieutenant.
unidentified		Yes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And then, of course, after Christmas, we were assigned to the Institute of Advanced Study at Princeton, New Jersey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, do you know that I was in the Air Force, and second lieutenants were sort of like the bottom of the barrel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ones who had come through these 90-day schools, Al, I mean, any enlisted man of any period at all in the service, there was no greater fear than somebody like you who just came out of 90 days and all of a sudden has all this power.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, there are many stories told about the 90-day wonders.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, anyway, you did get through it.
		You became a lieutenant.
		And they assigned you to do what?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, all they told us was we were being assigned to the Institute of Advanced Study at Princeton, New Jersey, and we had no idea what it was about.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, father apparently had arranged this because he had tremendous connections in the intelligence service, even though he had left the Navy himself in 1929.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was your father?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and, That still goes on today.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Very much so.
		Anyway, he apparently had arranged it, and when we arrived at the Institute at Princeton, fresh out of school with PhDs, we thought we knew everything about everything, and we quickly found out we didn't really know much about anything.
		When they confronted us with things like five-dimensional realities and possibilities of time travel, time manipulation, and all this sort of thing, we were somewhat overwhelmed, but fortunately we had a very good teacher, Dr. John Von Neumann, who has also been at the University of Princeton and is also part of the Institute since 1933.
		He took us aside and gave us some special instructions to tell us what it was all about and what we had been assigned to or had inherited, however you want to look at it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you were on some sort of special project?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we work very much on a special project.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who was Dr. von Neumann?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Dr. John von Neumann, PhD in mathematics.
		Actually, he was born in Hungary and he went through his schooling in Europe, took a PhD in mathematics in 1926, worked at the German university system until 1930 when he came to the United States.
		And 1930 was an interesting year because quite a number of people left Germany and Europe in that period of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		One of them, of course, was Albert Einstein.
		Some of the stories say he didn't leave Germany until 1933.
		It's not true.
		He left in 1930, went to Caltech, taught there for three years, and then he was offered a position at the Institute of Advanced Study, which he accepted.
		And of course, they opened their door for business, so to speak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then Einstein was also there?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he was.
		As well as two other founding members, I suppose you could call them.
		There's a Dr. Alexander and a Dr. Oswald Webelin.
		Now, those four people were the original staff.
		And of course, it grew from 33 onward.
		Many other projects were undertaken.
		That was not the only project underway there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, set the world political stage for us at this time.
unidentified		This was 1943.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I think that our ships were going down one after the other, weren't that true?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were being sunk and sunk and sunk.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		80% of our shipping was being sunk going across the Atlantic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And people should try and imagine that.
		Half of all the shipping that we sent didn't make it.
		Torpedoes generally, right?
		Now.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's what happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And in other words, what I'm trying to do is set up here the reason for the Navy to want to work on invisibility, yes, or any sort of stealth capability, radar or visible or whatever, anything that would help our ships get from here to there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		In 1940, when they started this, well, the project was actually started in 33, and it was just a feasibility study, which became a hardware study, and eventually a successful test was engaged in September 1940 at the Brooklyn Navy Yard with a very small ship.
		It was a tender.
		I was there as an observer.
		And of course, this was Tesla's system, and it worked very well.
		It produced optical invisibility, camera invisibility.
		Of course, in 1940, they weren't that concerned about radar.
		It was still an experimental thing, and they only had been in the Navy since 1938 on certain experimental ships.
		I should say, ships with experimental systems called radar.
		Now, in 1941, the British developed the Magnetron.
		This was sent over to the United States and was put in production at Western Electric.
		And this became the backbone of an entirely new radar system.
		We caused that increase in frequency from 500 kilohertz to 9.5 gigahertz, literally overnight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Slow up for a second, Earl.
		You said they did one first experiment.
		Were you part of that?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I was part of it in the sense that we were working on the hardware and we're still at the point in 1940 of undertaking an understanding of what was going on.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And we were more of observers in 1940 and a test in September than anything else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Observers, but I would like to know what it was that you were watching the scientists' work, you were watching the electronics being put together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What exactly were you doing back then?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Exactly what we were doing was twofold.
		One was we were to be observers for the Navy, write monthly reports on the progress of the system.
		They wanted people, not as Duncan and myself, who were trained in physics, knew it in terms of standard physics inside out, upside down, and could write intelligent reports to the higher level brass in the Navy critiquing what was going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, the object of the mission, military always has a mission, the object of the mission was to make that experimental ship optically invisible?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		1940, they were not concerned about radar, they were concerned about producing optical invisibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and they were using Tesla technology specifically to achieve this.
		Now, here's where I would like to understand what exactly was it?
		If you were to describe the equipment involved to achieve this in that first experiment, what would I have seen?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		What would you see in the way of hardware?
unidentified		Yeah, that's right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I would see a special antenna mounted on the highest point on the ship, which produced what we called an E-field, electric field, produced a rotating electric field, was fed with a four-phase system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you say electric, do you mean, you said antenna, E-field, do you mean like RF energy?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it was RF energy as standard output from any transmitter.
		But they were primarily concerned with that RF field of the electric component.
		There are two components to a radiated radio system or a radio energy.
		That is electric field and magnetic field at right angles to each other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, yes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Now, the electric field was the principal component they were concerned with there because I established part of the field system which was required.
		The other part was a rotating magnetic field.
		The electric field was inside the magnetic field.
		It rotated at different speeds, one twice the other.
		And the rotating field had a specific frequency with specific modulations, which were literally Tesla's designs because this was an analog system running all the time with special modulations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it would have been analog at that time.
		All right, that's very interesting.
		Now, what frequency was it of?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you recall what frequency it was of?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Basically, the original design of the Tesla system was essentially the same as what they kept throughout.
		It was operating on an RF carrier frequency of about 160 megahertz.
		Some people may say, oh, we couldn't produce that at the time.
		That's not true.
		His radar systems are running at 400 and 500 megahertz.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that's absolutely correct.
		So 160 megahertz of rotating RF and electrical energy.
		And was it...
		Let me ask this.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		If you're thinking about a rotating antenna, Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No, it was a fourth fixed antenna, what we call a quadriphase antenna, which means it had four elements isolated from each other, fed by four separate transmitters.
unidentified		Oh.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And they were electrically rotated by means of the phasing of the signals being fed in from the precedent electronics feeding the final stages of the four transmitters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, now I've got you.
		I've got you.
		Now that's new.
		I don't remember that from the other interview.
		So now I understand.
		There was no physical rotation going on.
		There were four radiating elements.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		By accurately phasing the signals in terms of the increase and decrease, the actual modulation phasing, you could produce a rotating field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now that's my next question.
		And if I get too technical for you, let me know.
		The audience will have to bear with me.
		You mentioned modulation.
		Now, you have a carrier frequency, which was 116 megahertz.
		Now, a carrier frequency is just, you know, like if I stopped talking Right now, folks, and there was dead air.
		Yeah.
		That's a carrier frequency.
		When I'm speaking and when you hear my voice, that's called modulation.
unidentified		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you said this was modulated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In what way, do you know, and with what type of modulation?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It was amplitude modulation.
		And there were four different modulating frequencies.
		That much I remember.
		The exact nature of those four independent modulating frequencies, I no longer recall.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but do you know offhand if each one of these elements had a different modulating frequency or if the modulating frequency was alternating within each one of those elements?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It was alternating within each one of those elements.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that begins to get pretty damn complex.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, it was a complex system, even though the early tests on the earlier system was of considerably lower power.
		They didn't need high power for a small ship.
		It was of lower power, and they didn't get into the one and two megawatt boosters and the output that they did in the larger systems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that would be one element of it.
		But even so, we've got this weird RF frequency with AM modulation alternating on these four elements.
		And then what else was on the ship to achieve this?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, they had a system for generating a rotating magnetic field.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Da-da.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A rotating magnetic field.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Now, to do that, you have to pump current through a coil.
unidentified		Yep.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And the coils basically were mounted on the deck of the ship.
		In the later system, there were four of them.
		I'm not sure if they used four now in the earlier system, but basically they would have to use something equivalent to a four-coil system in order, again, by phasing of the current coming out of the alternators, would produce a rotating magnetic field by proper phasing of the system so that it produced a counter-rotating, that is, a field which is rotating counterclockwise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now, electro-magnetic arrays or electromagnets require, if you want to create a big field, it takes a whole lot of current.
		It does.
		It takes a lot of current.
		So there were four of these, and did you say they were alternating or rotating?
		Were these physically rotating?
		No.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Again, it was electrically rotating due to the phasing of the current being fed to the full coils.
unidentified		Oh.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Coils, by the way, were of Tesla's special design.
		He loved comical coils.
		And they were narrow at the top and wider at the base.
		They stood typically a little over six feet high.
		And they were wound with copper tubing, which was cooled with water cooling.
		Because of the fact that pumping enough current through it, and the coils got hot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, any high school student will do the experiment where they wind insulated wire around a metal bar and apply voltage to it.
		And of course, you have an electromagnet.
		But what you're talking about was at a far, my God, six feet high and cooled that way.
		Yeah, they get hot.
		They get hot.
		Even the small ones you experiment with get very, very hot.
		So they would be water-cooled.
		That would make sense as well.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		There was an airwound coil, matter.
unidentified		There was no core, except an air core.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I think I'm beginning to get the picture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now that we finally have established communication, just sit tight, Al, and we'll be back after the top of the hour, okay?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, my guest is Al Belick.
		Now, this is by far the most detailed, specific description of exactly the Tesla technology, and that's what this is, all right?
		Tesla technology, and rather rather complicated Tesla technology at that.
		This would be incredibly complex when you consider the two rotating fields, one of RF and electricity, and the other of electromagnetic force.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, stay tuned.
		Out to Al Bilick, and Al Bilick is a survivor of the Philadelphia Experiment.
		And by the way, they made a movie about the Philadelphia Experiment called The Philadelphia Experiment, which was a damn good movie, I thought.
		And presently on the movie channels, they're showing the Philadelphia Experiment 2, which frankly I thought sucked.
		How about you, Al?
		What do you think of it?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I've seen Philadelphia Experiment 2, and while it is, in a sense, a story takeoff in the tail end of Philadelphia Experiment, the original movie, it has no bearing whatever on the Philadelphia Experiment.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The only thing I saw good about it was that it showed an alternative reality of what could have happened to us if the Nazis had won World War II.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that was an intriguing storyline, but in terms of truth.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It didn't happen that way, and there was no connection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so here we are in the Philadelphia Naval Yard in 1943, correct?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the Eldridge is big.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many tons?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		About 1,600, but they added about 200 tons of hardware to it for the test.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1,600 tons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And 200 tons of hardware?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		They had the diesel electric generator system.
		They had 275 kVA alternators built by, if I recall correctly, Westinghouse.
		They were very, very heavy because they wanted mass and rigidity.
		They wanted the rotating mass for various reasons.
		Namely, rotating physical mass can be converted into power on the post-mode.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now you say Westinghouse built what?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		They built the alternators.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The alternators.
		That would be another way to track this, wouldn't it?
		Probably could.
		Just a thought.
		Now, again, though, the basic setup was pretty much the same.
		I mean, you described that first ship experiment that worked to us pretty well.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, except this was more power for a larger ship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		More power for a larger ship.
		But had Van Neumann modified any of the equipment, yes.
		And He thought it would be biologically a safe thing to do.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He was not concerned about the biological aspects at first.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He was only concerned about the most efficient way to achieve the results, and he decided to drop the analog approach and go to a digital or pulsed approach in which the power into the coils, for example, as well as into the antenna system was pulsed with about a 10% duty cycle pulse frequencies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh my God, that would increase the power exponentially.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It would increase the power enormously.
		What they were able to do, they increased the power of the ORF final stage boosters from original half-megawatt output continuous rating to about a two-megawatt continuous rating.
		And then they could pulse this at 10% duty cycle.
		That says theoretically, if the equipment would take it, they could get 20 megawatt peak pulse power out of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		They didn't go that high.
		They kept it well within the design limits.
		They were running about 8 megawatt peak pulse power in the RF system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's still a lot of RFL.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		A lot of RF.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		You better believe it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this was still, was this still at about 160 megahertz?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Was it still modulated?
		Was it pulse?
		Was there AM modulation?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It would be difficult to call it AM modulation because it was a pulse system, but there was modulation waveforms on the pulse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It was a complex system which produced it.
		It produced a series called a Fourier series of waveforms, which caused even more problems because with a simple, well say simple, by comparison, of an analog system where you have known frequencies of modulation and they are continuous, the effects on the physiology and the nervous system is not nearly as disastrous as a pulsed system.
		A pulsed system is a sudden shot of energy, if you will, and then after it shuts off, you have this Fourier series of diminishing waves, which can be even more complex in terms of frequencies than the original system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This was still being radiated from an antenna located at the top of the ship?
		Correct.
		All right, now, on the Eldridge, you had the electromagnetic conical coils as well, six feet high, same coils, or what?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		They were basically the same coils, except they were slightly larger.
		They were about seven foot high.
		And because of the fact they were pulsing it instead of a continuous analog system, they had to do something else.
		Those coils would ring like crazy.
		They had to put a damping coil on the top of it in order to damp out some of the ringing problem they had with those coils.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God, the amount of energy.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, there was tons of energy.
		That is an incorrect term, but you had two 75 kBA alternators being the four coils with two outputs from each alternator.
		And the problem there was when you're pulsing it, you are driving the output power beyond the, shall we say, the analog normal rated limit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Way beyond.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Now, what you're doing in this case is you're converting rotating mass into electrical energy.
		And this is a well-known system.
		It's been used years since.
		I worked on a sonar system where a particular company's approach, they were literally pulsing the energy out of generators, and because of the rotating mass, you could get power output far beyond the normal electrical rating.
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's a valid approach.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My question, I think, is, if Tesla quit and literally went to the trouble to sabotage and the danger to sabotage an experiment because of the biological implications, how did Van Neumann imagine there wouldn't be very severe biological implications of using these experiments?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I can't tell you that, because we had a number of conversations with him.
		He did not want to hear about Tesla's fears of the biological side effects.
		He quite literally ignored it.
		And Tesla, on hearing this, became quite upset.
		He was out of the project.
		He was still doing other things on his own with his own laboratories.
		And his story I've heard many, many years later, in fact, within the last, I'll put it in this frame, in the last five years, someone who had access to the files told me, he says, Tesla did not die a natural death in his room.
		He said he was the victim of an accident which was set up for him.
		The story goes that this one morning, literally as I believe the 7th of January 1943, he left the New Yorker where he was living, drove somewhere, crossed the street, walking.
		He waited for a green light, of course, at the street corner.
		He had a green light.
		He started to cross the street in front of some park to stop traffic, including a taxi cab.
		Secret Service or other related personnel held back the other pedestrians while Tesla walked out in the street.
		And under some kind of a crew or type of conditioning, whatever it was, the taxi driver slammed foot down on the power and plowed right into Tesla, knocked him over the back of the taxi cab, and he came crashing down on the pavement and back of the cab.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My God.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And kept speeding away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My God, so you're saying here that Tesla was murdered, and he was murdered probably because he was continuing to complain or interfere or in some way try to stop the online.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He was ready to go public on what the thought was going doing and the fact that the government had, as he put it, no concern for the lives of the sailors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, back now to the naval yard and the experiments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What day was this experiment finally conducted on?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The first test was made 22 July 1943.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And I was downriver, several miles from the yard itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many, we've got the Eldridge, and how many people, souls, on board the Eldridge?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		As I remember, there are about 30.
unidentified		30.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The normal ship's complement is 150.
		What they normally needed was a skeleton crew to take it down the river, set it on station, and of course, Duncan and I were assigned the task of turning the equipment on in the right sequence.
		Where were you?
		Excuse me, we were in a control room before all of this equipment, which is essentially midship, a little bit, shall we say, further towards the bow than in the rear.
		But it was essentially midships where the control room was behind steel doors.
		Bolks had doors that were closed and locked when we were operating the equipment.
		And by radio command, and we had a radio receiver in the room, we would turn on the equipment on command and had to go through a certain sequence, read certain meters, et cetera, et cetera.
		And when it was up to full operating power, of course, we sat there until we had a further command shut down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you recall in what sequence you brought the equipment up?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		At this point, not exactly.
		The RF portion of the system we basically brought up first.
		That was easiest to bring up.
		Then we brought up the control systems for the alternators because that was a little slower and more complex.
		The field coils for the alternators are driven by vacuum tubes.
		3,000 of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		3,000?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		3,000 6L6s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, sure.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The old-fashioned big glass variety.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, listen.
		The first transmitter I ever had when I was a ham was the final.
		It was driven by a 6AG7, and it was a 6L6 final, and that was about 30 watts output then.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was going to say around 30 watts.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you're running 300 per coil, you're able to drive quite a lot of power into those coils, particularly when they're post.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you have any concerns?
		I mean, what were your thoughts?
		Sure, you were behind steel bulkheads, but what were your personal thoughts about the possible biological implications of what you were about to do?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, we were quite concerned about it because we knew Tesla well.
		We knew what Tesla was concerned about.
		We apprised Octavian Neumann of Tesla's concerns, and Van Neumann didn't want to hear about it, at least until about March or April of 43.
		And then he became convinced, oh, there might be a problem.
		Then he tried to design a other field to perhaps prevent the problem for the biological aspects.
		He actually put a third generator on board the ship to try and synchronize with the other two, and it never worked right.
		And he could never synchronize it.
		It was a bad enough problem, synchronizing two, much less three generators.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somehow he must have been convinced.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He was convinced by us that he better take a look at this and try and stop the problem in terms of the very high-powered R-Red fields, produce some kind of a counterfield.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That was his theory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But failing that, he went ahead with the test anyway.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That is correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which means somebody put pressure on him?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		A lot of pressure was put on him by the Navy Department.
		And he went ahead with the first test.
		First test, in terms of the hardware, was very successful.
		The ship was physically, that is I should say, optically invisible, radar invisible, because by 43 we had concern about radar.
		The Germans had very good radar systems, and they were attempting to defeat the German radar pickup for ships going across the Atlantic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, it was radar invisible.
		It was optically invisible.
		This was determined from a carrier deck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, this was appropriate distance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, this was with 30 personnel on board, or was this with only you in the control?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, were there sailors on board on deck in this first test?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, there were a number of sailors on deck who were there stationed on deck to be observers as to what they saw and felt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they told you to turn this thing on by radio?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, by radio link.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you brought it up, turned it on, and maintained the field for how long?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		You maintained the field for just about 20 minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		20 minutes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Then the order came to shut down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And we shut it down, and then the orders returned the ship to the Navy Yard, the back section.
		Well, then when we've been back there, and of course any checked out personnel, both below decks and above decks, below deck personnel were perfectly okay.
		Ones above deck, standing on the deck, were very sick, very ill, very nauseous.
		Obviously, had been exposed to entirely too much RF power and rotating magnetic fields because they were only about 75 feet at the maximum away from the coils or the antenna.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably horribly disoriented.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That would be putting it mildly.
		They were very disoriented.
		They were literally very sick physically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many were actually above deck, do you know?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I remember it was about eight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About eight.
		And so what happened to them?
		They went away to the dispensary for...
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And then, of course, they said to Van Neumann, not to worry.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We have another test crew for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Another test crew, yeah, of course.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, at that point, Van Neumann became very worried.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was a serious problem.
		Did anybody track what happened to these men prior to the next experiment?
		Did Van Neumann track what happened to these men?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I don't believe he did because he didn't have time enough to do it.
		The pressure was on to correct the system.
		And as the Navy said a few days later, well, we don't really need optical invisibility.
		In fact, we don't even want it at this point because, you see, in 43, it did not have the lower end, the shore end, and all of the tracking systems, the satellites, and everything we have today.
unidentified		Of course.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		They were totally dependent on either radar contact, telling where the position of the ships in a convoy were, or eyeball contact, if you will.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Consequently, they decided with radar invisibility, they had to have some means of optically seeing ships between each other and the convoy so only at night they didn't ram each other, particularly if they were in a bad storm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		So they made one slight concession.
		We don't need optical invisibility.
		Well, this meant a slight change in the system and a slight reduction of the power and the amount of, shall we say, time field rotation that was involved.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Were there, there were earlier experiments, I guess, that said to you you could achieve radar invisibility before you could achieve optical invisibility.
		Was it a matter only of power or was it a matter of, in other words, what drove the system from radar invisibility to optical invisibility?
		How much difference in power was there?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It was not so much a difference in power as it was a difference in the matter of the rotation of the artificial time field and holding it at a particular point.
		Because if you go into the theory as I knew it, you are dealing with the number of alternate realities, and you can quite literally rotate out of this one into the next one by rotating yourself 90 degrees in terms of the time field.
		You just drop into the next reality.
		But you don't want to do this under normal circumstances because what you want is just the radar or optical invisibility, which means you've got to find point away you hold this.
		You're producing a phase shift in the time field locally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that makes sense.
		I mean, you want your ship to get to Europe.
		You don't want it to go to another dimension.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		You want it to stay here, to put it in those terms, but just not be visible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Okay, so the first test was on the Eldridge 22 July of 43.
		That was considered at least a qualified success.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it was considered successful in terms of the hardware and the hardware goals.
		It was a qualified success because they had personnel problems.
		And on the 12th August test, after we got the notice, Van Neumann got the notice, and of course it went up and down the whole gamut of the personnel involved.
		The Navy said quite literally, you have a drop-dead date.
		You'll finish these tests by the 12th of August or just forget the whole project.
		And of course, Van Neumann became very worried.
		He went to the Navy.
		He'd already done this and asked for an extension on time, and they refused to give him any more time.
		And I became very concerned about this and went up to the director of the Office of Naval Engineering, Dr. Doctor is Captain Hal Bowen Sr.
		I said, what is this all about?
		He says, well, this command came from further up the line.
		I says, where did it come from?
		He says, from the CNO himself, Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral King.
		I said, what's he getting involved in this war?
		He's not supposed to be concerned specifically about engineering tests.
		And, well, we had no answer at that time as to why he chose or why he was given the orders for a drop dead date of the 12th August.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're going to take a age to find the answer to that one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, but we've got it.
		All right.
		We're going to drop dead right now for about 10 minutes.
		So relax, get a cup of coffee, because when we come back, we're going to talk about what the world knows as the Philadelphia Experiment, the test conducted 12 August, 1943.
		I'm Art Bell.
		My guest is Al Elick, a survivor of the Philadelphia Experiment.
		Believe me, you don't want to go away.
		I want to remind everybody that, of course, as we always do when we have a guest, if you want to read more about this, know more about the Philadelphia Experiment, you will find the following links on my website.
		The Montauk Project, Experiments in Time, Montauk Revisited, Adventures in Synchronicity, The Pyramids of Montauk, Explorations in Consciousness, and a video of the Philadelphia Experiment Part 2.
		All of that's on my website now at www.artbell.com.
		Now, we're about to launch into the experiment itself, the major one, that occurred 12 August of 1943.
		But just before we do, and Al, I don't want you to take time to try to answer this right now.
		I just want to read it.
		Dear Art, you have twice now reported tonight's guest age as 71 years.
		That would mean he was born in 1927.
		World War II began in 1939 in Europe and December of 41 in the Pacific, which would make Al 12 and 14 years old, respectively.
		Now, a number of people have faxed that to me, and there is an answer to this, and they just need to keep their pants on out there to hear it.
		Is that fair to say, Al?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there is an answer to that.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, don't give it right now.
		I want to stay on track here.
		The big test, the Eldridge, here you went out to sea with how many sailors altogether?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, on the second test, the big one, we didn't really go to sea.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We were still in the harbor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you're in the harbor.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We had a total personnel of about 30 on board.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		There was something like 25, about 20 sailors and 10 officers, including Duncan and myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You and Duncan were again in the same place as you had been previously in the control room.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There were how many on deck would you say, about 18?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It was again about eight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About only eight on deck.
unidentified		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And the rest of them in various positions below deck to do the skeleton crew number to run the ship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, did you get your orders to begin by radio or what?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we were given orders by radio as to when to proceed.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And of course, follow the standard format as we had done before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So here we go.
		This time with pulse signals, tremendous levels of RF and electromagnetic energy pulsing around, and you cranked it all up.
		And just describe what you did right on through this, if you would.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, we turned all the equipment on.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Everything appeared to be functioning normally to us for about the first 30 seconds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As it had in previous tests.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As it had in previous tests.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it had in the previous tests, correct.
		And to the observer ships, there were now three of them.
		An aircraft carrier with Captain Harrison, who was in charge of the tests on board, Dr. John Van Neumann and others.
		It was a Coast Guard cutter, and there was also a merchant ship, the SS Fury Seth.
		And they were all observing this because the merchant marine was very concerned they were getting the brunt of the effect of the German U-boats.
		and there was already a lot of spears.
unidentified		Thank you.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And there was already a lot of spare systems built.
		If the final test was successful, we were going to start equipping ships with this equipment immediately.
		So we turned everything on, and as I said, everything appeared to be normal to the observers on these three ships for about 70 seconds.
		They had radar invisibility.
		They could still see the ship through a greenish haze, sort of a fog, but it was visible.
		And everybody thought, well, it looks like everything is working the way it's supposed to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got it.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Then there was a binding blue flash of light, and the ship disappeared.
		And the water line, which showed approximately where the ship was, also disappeared.
		So there's just normal water there in the bay.
		I should say in the section of the Delaware River where we ran the test.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It must have been to those observing a horror.
		I mean, they were used to, at least by then, seeing the indent in the water that was taken by this field along with the ship.
		But this time, this time, it wasn't there.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		It wasn't there.
		They knew it wasn't there.
		And of course, they could raise no one by radio.
		And I can well imagine how Van Neumann felt.
		He was probably tearing his hair out what was left of it.
		Maybe that's one of the reasons he had none 40 years later.
		But in any case, they has nothing they could do.
		I mean, all they could do was sit there and watch and wait and hope.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, from their perspective, that was it.
		You were gone.
		Now, tell me, at that moment, you said a blinding blue flash, obviously reported by observers.
		What about you?
		You were in the control room.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, Duncan and I in the control room noticed after approximately 30 seconds or so that things weren't right.
		And we were getting strange wavering effects in the light level of the 6L6s.
		And they were getting brighter and they were getting dimmer.
		And this never had happened before in any of the tests.
		And then we started to get what appeared to be high-voltage archover in the control room from various equipments.
		And there was no high-voltage equipment in that control.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Brighter and dimmer, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The 6L6 had a filament, a 6-volt filament.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		A bright one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		So they're getting brighter and dimmer would indicate the filament voltage was changing.
		At least that's the first thing I would leap to, I guess.
		As an assumption.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We didn't see any indication of changes of level of the plate current.
		At first, we didn't see anything other than that visual effect.
		Then we had what appeared to be high-voltage arcover, but no high-voltage equipment.
		But then, of course, we tried at this point to raise somebody on the radio.
		The radio had nothing but static on it.
		And at this point, I said, well, we're on our own.
		What do we do now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And where are we?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And where are we?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We didn't think about where are we at first.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you have any communication at this point with the other sailors on the ship or any of the officers?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No, we were inside the control room, and the door was closed and locked from the inside.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And your instructions, I presume, were to remain there?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Correct, unless something went wrong and we had to use our own judgment.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, our judgment said there's something wrong, shut the equipment off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		So we went to shut it off, turning off the main power controls for the main AC power operating everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Couldn't shut it off.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The switches were frozen totally.
		They were locked and immovable.
		So things getting worse in the control room, we decided, well, there's nothing we can do.
		Let's get out of here.
		So we opened the bokehead door, went out on deck, and we saw sailors milling around in a very strange and disoriented manner.
		But we didn't see anyone buried in the deck with the bokeheads at that point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		So we decided, sort of intuitively, both of us, let's get out of here.
unidentified		We'll jump overboard and swim ashore.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I might add, at this point, everything on board the ship was rather clear.
		I wouldn't say crystal clear.
		There was some haze in the atmosphere.
		But you could see the ship.
		You could see the railing.
		But you could see nothing whatever beyond the railing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I did.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Solid ray thought.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there was no way in hell to shut it off.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said the switches were actually frozen.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		They appeared uncensed to us, and they were frozen.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We couldn't move them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So here you wander out.
		There's a haze.
		There's sailors just sort of stumbling around incoherently.
		What about the biological effects on you moving out into the middle of this field?
		Or was it something?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The biological effect takes a while to build up.
		We had been behind steel.
		We were shielded from it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For how long?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, it takes several minutes for the effect to build up to the point where the person realizes there's something wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so the two of you then saw this going on and said, the hell with this, let's go overboard.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Right, exactly.
		So we jumped overboard, both of us.
		Expecting to hit the water and swim ashore.
unidentified		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		But we never hit the water.
		What hasn't started falling?
		We felt the sensation was very much like it were falling down an elevator shaft that had no bottom.
unidentified		Oh.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, A rather sickening feeling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I wouldn't like that at all.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And we kept falling, and we kept falling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could you see anything?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We couldn't talk with each other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could you see anything?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We could not see anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could you see each other?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It just, well, we could see each other, and that was about it.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We were very close together, but not physically in contact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Otherwise, you're in virtual blackness and falling.
		Right.
		My God, I'd have a heart attack and probably die right there.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, we didn't have a heart attack and die right there, but we didn't know what was coming off next.
		And then it seemed like everything faded out.
		It was sort of bright and illuminated, like it was daylight, but it was nothing you could see.
unidentified		Then we were standing.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We then realized we were standing on what appeared to be dry ground at night.
		There's some kind of a chain-link fence in back of us, which looked like a military design.
		And before we could really take cognizance of our surroundings, there was suddenly a blinding searchlight coming down on us from something overhead.
		Something, of course, was a helicopter.
		Now, in 1943, helicopters were almost unknown.
		There were, of course, Sikorsky experimental coppers and choppers, but they were not a mainstay in the military.
		So here we get the footlight on us, and one of those places is this.
		That's what's going through our head.
		The next thing we see a bunch of MPs running towards us from somewheres.
		MPs we recognized, of course.
		And they grabbed us by the arms and took us to a building.
		Went upside the building.
		There's an elevator on the elevator.
		We dropped down several levels.
		How far we didn't know.
		The door opens, and we're in an underground facility where we see military personnel, some strange equipment, and an elderly civilian walking towards us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Elderly civilian.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And he then introduces himself to me and says, General, I've been waiting for you.
		I'm Dr. John von Neumann.
		So we look at this man who was virtually devoid of hair except for some sideburns that were white and some little bushy eyebrows.
		And said, you're who?
		He said, I'm Dr. von Neumann.
		He said, you can't be.
		We left him about an hour ago.
		He's a much younger man.
		And he looked at us sternly and says, I am the same Dr. von Neumann you knew in 1943.
		This is 1983 and you're at Montauk, Long Island.
		We thought the guy was nuts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We just did not believe him.
		We were then given the cook's tour by von Neumann of the underground facility.
		Then we were, shall we say, introduced to modern IBM computers, modern for that day, IBM 360s and 370s with the hard disk drives, the tape drives, the display systems, the large screen graphic display systems, other communications equipment, none of which we recognized at all.
		And after we got the cook's tour of the NACE, they finally sat us down in front of large screen color TV, which of course didn't exist at 43.
		And we stopped watching TV.
		We had the cook's tour for about two hours and some discussion with Von Neumann whether he sat us down in front of TV.
		I guess he had other things he had to do.
		So we watched some of the programs and we see shots of modern three-way systems with traffic jams and cars we don't recognize and city outlines we don't recognize and what got to us finally with the commercials, particularly one, which was a commercial for an airline, which said, well, on your next vacation trip to Hawaii, why not fly with us in a 747 jet and show a picture of a 747 in flight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is what the hell is this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Maybe the old man's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then, yeah, obviously by then you're beginning to catch on, I guess.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Or we're beginning to catch on.
		There was something drastically wrong.
		So back to him, we talk with him some more, and then he puts it on and says, we've got a very serious problem here.
		I said, okay, what?
		He says, you came from the Eldritch here.
		We don't really know how you got here.
		But said the Eldridge is no longer in the harbor, said it's in hyperspace.
		And I said, it's creating this artificial bubble called hyperspace.
		An automatician will understand what I'm talking about.
		And it's growing.
		And we don't know how big it will grow.
		And he says, we've got to shut that equipment off.
		He says, we can't do it from here.
		He says, we can shut our system down.
		He said, it's apparent to us that the two systems locked up and pulled the milk out into hyperspace.
		And this bubble is growing.
		And we don't know how big it will get or how long this system may run before it breaks down.
		He says, you've got to go back there and shut off the equipment.
		I say, well, that's great.
		We don't know how we got here and how are we going to get back there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And he then sprung it on.
		He says, well, John, he says, here at Montauk, we have solved these problems.
		We can send you anywhere as we want, literally in this galaxy at any time we want.
		He says, we can send you back next to the Eldritch, and we will send you back.
		And you will get back there.
		You will shut the equipment off any way you can if you have to smash it, whatever you have to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here's a question for you that I've always wondered about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why did it have to be you that went back?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, we both went back.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		See, the movie is an error.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I understand, but I'm asking, why could it not have been anybody from the 80s?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why was it necessary that the two of you go back?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the simplest answer to that is the fact that we understood the system, and we knew what was critical.
		We knew what had to be shut off.
		And we were the most cognizant of the equipment and the way it worked.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think it had anything to do with the nature of time, which we all wonder a very great deal about?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I think it did, because we had wound up in 83 from 43, and we had to get back to 43 to sort of close the loop.
		So we couldn't do that without going back to the Elbridge first, and then seeing the equipment which we wrecked with axes.
		I might add, we had on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, we're getting ahead of the story, and we're at the bottom of the hour, so hold on just one moment.
		So they went back, and we'll pick up on that and how it happened and what they did in a moment.
		This is Coast to Coast, A.M. I'm Art Bell.
		To Al Bilik in Atlanta, Georgia.
		Al, welcome back.
		So you're in Montauk, and we were kind of jumping ahead there.
		They wanted you to go back.
		They wanted you to stop this continuing rip in time by shutting this thing down.
		Yes.
		Now, what kind of time travel equipment did you observe that they had in the 80s?
		What did you see?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, they had what we call at that time the standard Montauk system, which generated a tunnel, you might say, in what normally appeared to be a solid wall.
		It created this tunnel about eight feet in diameter, which would stand at the entrance when all the equipment was on, and it would literally suck you up and propel you to the point in space and time that they had set it for.
		And you or an object, even a car, could be spit out at the far end, wherever that might be.
		Well, don't ask me how they would calibrate it to know where the average was or how to get there, but they literally dumped Duncan and myself on the deck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there you were.
		All right.
		What did you see when you reappeared on that deck?
		What were the conditions?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		What did we see when we reappeared on that deck?
		Complete pandemonium.
		There was all kinds of strange gaseous discharges or strange gaseous clouts on the deck of the ship.
		We found the control room, went in, closed the door behind us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait, another question.
		Was there any way, any way, for you to understand from the time you left the Eldridge and their placement of you back on the Eldridge, how much time, this may be a dumb question, but how much time had passed, how long this had been turned on in real time.
		Was there any way for you to know that?
		No.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		For this reason.
		In hyperspace, normal space-time considerations do not apply.
		Time does not exist as we know it in hyperspace.
		Consequently, the ship could have been there for weeks, for all we know.
		Speaking in terms of time as we know it here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It was an unknown.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But all right, obviously the conditions had deteriorated severely.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they definitely had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you see anyone?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We saw a few sailors there who were in total dismay and turmoil.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		We did not see anyone buried in the deck at that point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you guys, obviously not wanting a lot of exposure, headed straight for the control room.
unidentified		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And I might add, we had on radiation suits because we were warned that there might be severe radiation problems on board the ship.
		So we had on radiation suits, very much like they showed in the movie, the Philadelphia Experiment.
		And we went into the control room, slammed the door shilly off, after we found someplace axes, and we proceeded to smash every piece of equipment within sight, all of the banks of electron tubes, some of the smaller pieces of equipment.
		We did not go after the generators of the large heavy equipment.
		We went after the control systems.
		And after we had chopped up enough of it, of course, the generators started to wind down because all the controls for them were off.
		At that point, with the generators starting to wind down, we knew that essentially it was over, so we put down the axes and went back out on deck and looked around.
		And at that point, of course, we still couldn't see anything beyond the railing.
		It was still a hazy gray.
		But we did see two sailors buried in the steel deck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were literally buried?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		They were literally buried in the steel.
		The steel had intermingled molecularly with the flesh and bones of their bodies.
		Two buried in the same manner upright in the bulkhead.
		And a fifth man had his hand in the bulkhead up to his wrist.
		He was the only one of the five that lived.
		They cut his hand off and gave me an artificial one later.
		Standard type amputee.
		So we looked at all of this, and the total pandemonium among the sailors who were still, should I say, standing on deck, they were milling around with total non-recognition of anything about where they were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So some of them didn't get buried or somehow avoided that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder how.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is one of the problems we've tried to figure out since.
		What happened when the fuel started to collapse?
		The ship was starting to drift back out of hyperspace to the point of origin.
		And I might add, in order to get back to the point of origin, there would be no way to know where the ship would go except for a very specialized piece of equipment installed with that system.
		I've been designed by Tesla back in the 20s, not the specific piece that was using on the Eldritch.
		But he developed to the FAA what was called a zero-time reference generator, which provided absolute frequencies, phase-stable frequencies for all of the ILS and guidance systems across the country.
		It was more stable than anything we could have designed up until maybe 10, 15 years ago.
		In any case, a piece of equipment very similar to that, a zero-time reference generator, which locks into and references the center of the galaxy, our galaxy, the Milky Way, and provides an ultra-stable time reference and an ultra-stable reference for all the other systems.
		Because of that piece of equipment and the way the whole system was configured, we knew and have been told that we destroyed the rest of the electronics, but certainly not that piece of equipment, that the ship would eventually return to the starting point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		So, and the starting point being, of course, the harbor in Philadelphia, literally at the point where the ship left.
		So, as the fields were slowly collapsing, we looked around on deck.
		One of the sailors was our younger brother, Jim, who had enlisted in the Navy right after Pearl Harbor, six years younger.
		And he was still conscious, and I was crying, and I went over and put my arm around him, and his head and shoulders were out of the steel.
		Duncan looks at this, looks around the ship, heads to the railing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute, hold it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're telling me your brother was buried, except for his head and shoulders, into the steel?
unidentified		Yes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Except for his head and shoulders.
		He was in the steel.
		He was dying, but he was also crying at the same time.
		So I went over to him to try and comfort him.
		I know it was hopeless.
		So the Duncan.
		Duncan looked at this whole scenario and seeing sailors who were obviously out of their minds milling around on deck.
		Some of them were wavering in and out of reality.
		He headed to the railing and looked at me like, well, aren't you coming along?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, is it possible?
		I have a question.
		The field collapsed erratically and no doubt not evenly at all.
		Is it possible that some of the sailors were in portions of the collapsed field that caused what you observed, this horrible death?
		That's very possible.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The analysis of precisely what happened is probably nearly impossible today, but as the fields collapsed and as the ship came back to the normal reality and the sailors with it, everything didn't come back evenly and in complete synchronization like it left because the fields were collapsing randomly.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Consequently, the effects were random.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, what you said, obviously you're going to look overboard or past the edge of the ship to see what you can see, water, land, the docks.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I still, at this point, see nothing.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		At the point where we could see water or land, the ship was packed in the harbor, and that was after Duncan jumped overboard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then I'm jumping ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Duncan decided to jump overboard?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and he left his scenario, and we left there, and he wound up back in the future, as the saying goes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He wound up back at Montauk.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I stayed on board the ship.
		I was there when the fields totally collapsed, and it was back in the harbor.
		And, of course, I gave my report.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was that an instant thing?
		Or, I mean, did you just suddenly see the harbor and land and water?
		Or how did it manifest?
		How did you come back?
		You say the field finally collapsed utterly, which obviously brought you back.
		Was it instantaneous or what?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		When I say collapsed, the ship returned to the starting point.
		I can't say for sure whether the ship very quietly and without fanfare reappeared in the water where it had been or whether it plunged in or not.
		It certainly didn't plunge in with any great degree of disturbance because we didn't feel any disturbance on the ship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it arrived roughly just right back with displacing the same amount of water that it had before.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And of course, on board the carrier and the other two observer ships, they saw that the ship was back and they could see that there were serious problems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From their perspective, how much time had passed?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Four hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Four hours.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Four hours from the perspective of those on the ships observing the disappearance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so they obviously knew there was distress?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they knew there were serious problems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what did they do?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		They could see through binoculars that there were serious problems.
		They sent a boarding party.
		First, they tried to raise someone on the radio.
		They caught no one.
		Then they sent a boarding party to literally board the ship.
		And they did.
		And they found the two sailors buried in the steel deck, nearly dead.
		They found two more in the bulkhead, as I had described, and of course the fifth man with his hand and wrist buried in the steel.
		And they left the dead and dying there.
		The man who was still alive, they cut his hand off.
		And he lived.
		The others who were milling around on the deck wound down flipping the funny farms.
		They had another problem, of course, with some of them were fading in and out of our reality, which created a very serious problem.
		Nothing like this had ever happened before.
		How do you handle it?
		And this gave rise to some of the stories about the sailors who were still intact and at least partially sane, laying on of hands to try and stabilize their shipmates.
		This resulted in the design and development of special hardware to stabilize these guys in this reality, a project which involved several well-known scientists, which it took about six months to solve.
		But they did finally stabilize those guys.
		The others, there were some that disappeared by jumping overboard, and of course, some who were just essentially dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, there were some who went overboard who were simply never heard from again anywhere, anytime?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Not to our knowledge.
		There were rumors.
		I knew of two that jumped overboard, and they disintegrated and disappeared.
		There were actually four who jumped overboard other than Duncan and myself, and nothing has ever been heard of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you presume that?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Because when you jumped overboard, We do not understand why we survived.
		And the others did not.
		This is an unknown we've never solved.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we had, I had heard from many sources that there were many who ended up in psychiatric institutions.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, this is true.
		Those around the deck wound up in psychiatric wards.
		And eventually, one by one died.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did the War Department tell their families?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Basically, it told them that they were lost at sea during the war.
		They covered it up totally.
		They lied lately to the families.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not an unknown thing for our government to do.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Not an unknown thing, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even today.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And of course, under guys of war and pressures of war, there was some justification for this.
		It was an experiment that went totally sour, and they didn't want anybody to know what happened because there was also an alien involvement, which I did not believe the rumors at the time, but I since have acquired paperwork from the head medical doctor, Dr. Oscar O. Schneider, who was the chief medical officer during the periods of the test and afterwards for many years.
		He eventually did an autopsy on one of the sailors who died and recovered an implant device, was one in the brain and three more in various parts of the body, and wrote a letter, which I have a copies of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am not surprised, because obviously anything that would have to do with hyperspace, reflecting back on a million shows I've done about this kind of thing.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, this is the problem.
		There are apparently others out there, aliens who wanted, what is this piece of antiquated hardware suddenly showing Up out here, whose is it?
		What is it?
		And according to some of the sailors who we thought were crazy, saying they had aliens tramping all over the ship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, it's like it's like having a stealth bomber turn up in 1943.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Except there was sort of a reverse scenario.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I heard.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It was a 1943 device turning up in the future, if you will.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Not even truly in the future, but someplace else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about you?
		What about you?
		In other words, when you came off the ship, obviously you were still pretty much in command of your faculties.
		They must have debriefed the hell out of you.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, those below deck were shielded from the effects of the radiation.
		Consequently, they were all essentially normal.
		There was one exception.
		There was one guy there that had a problem with fading in and out of visibility.
		Essentially, that was stabilized.
unidentified		But the rest of them were...
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Other than they knew something terrible of them going on, they sensed that they were essentially normal in terms of their faculties and their physical responses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you, they must have talked and talked and talked to you to try to...
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The scuttlebutt went through the entire Navy from Philadelphia around the world that something really weird had happened in the Philadelphia harbor that day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And, of course, the Navy had quite a problem suppressing this.
		It became classified, top secret.
		The whole project was already classified, and they put everybody into quarantine, and they then, later on, as the letters show, Roger Hoover got into the act, as well as others, to declare this thing top secret, bury the whole thing, and turn the ship's log over to Admiral Hillencotter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the...
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Now, when the ship was given to the Greeks in 1951, by maritime law, they must have the log of the ship.
		They did have it.
		It was given to them.
		Minus every page prior to January 1, 1944.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, it was a disaster, a biological disaster.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It was a disaster of many proportions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So did they ostensibly at that time shut the research down, shut the project down, classify the whole thing, and stop?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		They did not stop the research?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They did not.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		There was a third test in the Eldridge in late October in the outer harbor, well below Philadelphia.
		And that one was also a disaster, but at least they took the personnel off the ship after it was on station so that no one was hurt.
		The ship had problems afterwards, so that was when they scrapped the project.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was when they stopped it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But even then, they didn't stop research into time they could not have, or the Montauk business could not have happened.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Essentially true.
		Montauk was a continuation of some of the research done in the Photo experiment.
		It was also a continuation of research which the Germans had been doing because they had their own invisibility project.
		And they ran into the same disastrous problems we did.
		And they scrapped their project, except that when the war was over, we, shall we say, acquired their scientists and their know-how.
		And everyone was put into Brookhaven National Laboratories in 1947 to continue the research on time travel, mind control, and all of the other aspects which had been buried.
		Officially, the Philadelphia experiment, which was known as Project Rainbow, was terminated in 1947.
		Now in 1949, they resurrected it under a new name, Project Mirage.
		And they said to Von Neumann and says, see if you can find out what went wrong, see if you can salvage any part of this.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not something you just let go of.
		A lot of times these stories just stop, you know, and we never picked up on it.
		That would be, that would come to me, come across to me as baloney.
		It's a very, very powerful, dangerous technology.
		But that's never stopped the military before.
		No, they didn't stop.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Von Neumann did solve the problems in 1953, and he had, of course, as part of his solution the computer, the new one which he had designed.
		He delivered a new system to the Navy.
		They tested it on the Carrier Midway, and it was fully successful.
		There were no personal side effects.
		And of course, I was no longer part of that project.
		I was long since out of the Navy said Cameron and out of Cameron, if you will.
		And I only know that they did solve the problem and was fully successful.
		Part of the solution was a reduction in the power level.
		And from that point on, of course, for many generations, it's now on all of our fighter aircraft.
		It's on the large carriers.
		The Israelis have it on their fighter aircraft.
		There have even been public demonstrations over Hawaii.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People have seen a lot of craft come and go.
		Believe me, Al.
		Listen, we're at the end of this hour, and I did only promise to keep you three hours, right?
		But we started a half hour late.
		Now, I know you've got a date later today, and you've got to get some sleep.
		So shall we cut it off here, or do you have any more time, or how do you feel?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		If you want to run about another half hour, we could do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds good to me.
		Just about exactly right.
		In fact, all right, stay right where you are.
		My guest is Al Bielick, a survivor of the Philadelphia experiment.
		Once Al is gone, in fact, we'll ask when we come back, I don't think there will be anybody else to tell the story you're hearing tonight.
		To get a copy of this tape, you can call 1-800-917-4278.
		1-800-917-4278.
		The End Guy, who will be left to tell this story?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's a very good question.
		I know specifically of one other person who was on board the Overseas at that time.
		He was one of the officers who was below deck.
		He is still alive, but Will's memory is starting to fail.
		he's in his mid-80s.
		And you also, speaking of age, you had a question you wanted me to answer about: how could I have been on the elders if I'm only 71?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, the answer is: I'm not just 71.
		I was not born in 1927, as my birth certificate is albeelic, says.
		There was, a lot of research now says to me very clearly, there was an albelic, but that albek is not me.
		I was born in 1916, 4th of August.
		Consequently, I would be 81 today, which would put it in the right category.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Because I would have been 27 at the time of the test.
		And Brother Duncan was born there in 1917, about seven months later.
		Same father, two different mothers.
		And it is a very, well, I have to give a very brief synopsis of what happened.
		After the experiment failed, I was eventually transferred at the request of John Van Neumann, who was working on the bomb project to Los Alamos, to Los Alamos myself with my family.
		I had a wife and a young son at that point.
		And I was there from July 44 to July 47.
		And due to the fact that I had full access to the Black Wall, as they called it, quite legally, write a classified report on the development of the atomic bomb.
		I also found some other things in there referring to other projects which had nothing to do with the bomb or the Philadelphia experiment.
		And I started talking about it, even though it was within classified personnel circles.
		I raised a lot of nasty questions, and finally the acts descended.
		I was removed from Los Alamos on the 4th of July, 1947.
		Transferred to Washington, expecting a court-martial, did not have it.
		Was transferred from that point to Fort Hurricane, a new assignment.
		There's a Navy base there, which is quite true.
		There was a Navy base.
		It's still there, but I do not know if it's active today in terms of the underwater submarine pin entrances.
		And there I was again reactivated, shall we say, by a montalk.
		They know where to find people.
		I was pulled up into 1983, and the very tearful von Neumann told me what they were going to do to me.
		He says, they want to eliminate you as apparently a threat to someone.
		So they're going to strip you of your life memories.
		It's that camera in the going to your age, regress you down to the size of a young infant, plug you into another family in the past with another name, and hope that you never remember any part of it.
		Of course, the idea was if I did remember any part of it, I would probably be considered a little bit on the another side because nothing would fit.
		Well, I grew up as albelic, not knowing any better.
		And in 1988, my memories were recovered when I saw the Philadelphia Experiment movie for the first time, and I was in a Saturday night in January of 88.
		I mean, it had been around, and I did not see it when I was in the movie houses in 1984.
		I saw it as a video on HBO one Saturday night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I've got some people that would like to talk to you, but I've got also one pretty harsh question.
		I mean, there are a lot of skeptics about this.
		You know that, Al?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's one from Sunnyvale, California named Bruce, who says, you know, maybe I've watched too many Exiles movies, series.
		Maybe I'm too cynical.
		But couldn't Al's memory be the result of hallucinations brought on by drugs or other artificial influence unknowingly given to him?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a good question and a fair question.
		The answer to that is no.
		A, I've never been on drugs, the hallucinatorium that sort of thing.
		Number two, a number of people have identified me as Ed Cameron.
		One was, as I said, the same Mr. Carolin Batchelor, who on a conference call quite some years ago in 91, never having met him personally, on a conference call, because he knew a lot about the Photov experiment and Preston Nichols set it up, he identified me eventually as Ed Cameron from my voice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It was rather unusual of itself.
		Personally, we had not had any personal conversations prior, at least in the current era.
		And he had been definitely on the Eldritch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		There are people who want to talk to you and time slips by.
		So real quickly, first time caller line, you're on the air with Al Belick.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Thank you for taking my call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		You're going to have to speak up, sir.
		You're not very loud.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		All right.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I can't hear him either.
unidentified		Here we go.
unidentified		Can you hear me now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Barely, but go ahead.
unidentified		Okay, here's my question.
unidentified		When he landed in that installation and he fell off the edge of the ship, did you age or were you the same age when you were talking in front of that commander who had aged?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I was the same age.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Even though I traveled 40 years in time, I was still of the same age because my individual personal timeline only progressed at the rate of the normal biological clocks internal to the body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, for Van Euman and company, all those years had gone by.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For you, it was but an instant.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but for him, he had gone through it the normal way and was 40 years older.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that makes sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Al Belick.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, Art.
		Thanks for taking my call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Love your show.
unidentified		Al, I was wondering, the phenomenon surrounding the Bermuda Triangle, could this technology have anything to do with that?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		No, the Bermuda Triangle did not have any to do with the Philadelphia experiment.
		But part of the phenomenon of the Bermuda Triangle may have had something to do with another project which I uncovered while I was at Los Alamos.
		That was Project Southern Cross.
		I mentioned that in my interview with Bart Bell about a year and a half ago.
		And Southern Cross involved discovery of some Atlantean crystal formations on the ocean floor, which became activatable with a proper electric and magnetic field effects into a form of time travel.
		This was finally calibrated, nailed down, and functional by 1938.
		I found that in the vault and they raised the question, if we had this since 1938, why did we ever bother with the Philadelphia experiment?
		Well, that got me the axe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm sure it did.
		I'm sure it did.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Al Belick and Art Bell.
unidentified		High.
		Yeah, when he popped into 1983, was he in two places at one time?
		Did the young Al and the old Al were both alive ostensibly at that time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really good question, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How about that, Al?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I and Ed were alive at the same time period, from 27 to 47, that's true.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		A great deal of effort was made to make sure that our paths never crossed.
unidentified		No, no, I'm talking about when he came into the...
		When you popped into 1983 from the Eldridge, then you as a young man came into 1983 where you, as the older man, was ostensibly still alive.
		So essentially, you were in two places at one time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I get it.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		They knew that that was a problem, a potential problem.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Three days before the arrival on 12 August 83, I was told to take the hike and get off the base.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, they knew that might happen, and they intentionally prevented any paradox from occurring.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
		Thank you, Color, and take care.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Al Buelick.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yes, this has been a great week of shows, Art.
		Mr. Buelick, I'm going to say that you and Art are two brave people.
		I get chills up my spine as an audience listener thinking about what goes on around us.
		I was in the military.
		I went on the cops in New York.
		And I look back at my past, and I say, lab rats is what I can see a lot of people went through as far as our service.
		And I just get very fed up at the fact that no one explains what's going to happen on these experiments.
		I was involved.
		My father was in World War II, and the atomic blasts all the way down.
		It just aggravates me that we're just not dealing with people that explain what's going to be an experiment.
		And it turns out that it turns into a catastrophe and lives are lost.
		And your life was twisted so much.
		And it's for a country and a cause that it's not explained, which is one of the reasons why I say deeply within my soul, you went libertarian, and I got very upset because I'm a Republican, but I'm twisted now, too, because I'm wondering who the heck is running this country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, to me, it's obvious, and that's what caused me to do what I did.
		Just keep reading the news, sir.
		You'll be with me shortly.
		Al, what is your attitude now?
		It's a fair question about our government.
		I mean, your guinea pig experience and that of those soldiers who died, sailors who died, is not unlike, I'm sorry to say, years of history since there have been many guinea pigs, many experiments, GIs standing in front of exploding, detonating atomic weapons, you name it.
		Exactly.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		The Gulf War syndrome and that problem, etc.
		There's so many.
		The problem is this.
		We have a legitimate elected government, though in my belief structure, many of them are sold out.
		But that is not the problem.
		The problem is a secret government, and nobody has ever been able to determine precisely who constitutes the secret government, who gives the orders to whom.
		Does anybody really sit on top dictating the orders?
		My inputs and my information indicates that we have a complicated problem involving aliens who are attempting to control our earthly governments and giving various inputs, instructions and orders.
		And we have a group here, which was loosely called the New World Order, trying to set up a whole new regime, which is nothing new.
		It's as old as history and very despotic.
		But the question is, and I don't think there is an answer, who is really running show?
		Nobody knows the answer to that that I know of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So without the answer to that, you can't have an attitude about him, I guess.
		First time, Colorline, you're on the air with Al Bilakai.
		Yeah, hi, I'm from Belux, Missouri.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		I have two questions, two quick ones.
		Number one, how long were you held in the future in 1983?
		And my second question would be when your, what was his name, Duncan?
		No, Duncan was it, your partner?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Duncan, my brother.
unidentified		No, no, no, the partner on the time travel thing, you went overboard with him?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that was Duncan.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that was a Duncan.
unidentified		Okay, I'm sorry.
		They said he jumped back overboard, went back to the future.
		Did he go back to the future or did he just...
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure where.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever had him?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		However, once had a severe accident, aged very rapidly and essentially died.
		And since the technology at that point had advanced to the point where we had time travel, he went back and contacted father and says, your son is dying.
		Get busy and make a new son.
		So his fifth wife, the new Duncan, was born in 1951.
		But the personality of the old Duncan did not enter the body until 1963.
		And that we've been able to prove under hypnosis that that is the fact that what happened because when you tried to take him back earlier in 63, he's on the decks of the Eldridge and he had no interest in the whole Florida experiment.
		Suddenly, it hit him in the face.
		There is, yes, there's many little problems here.
		And turned it up.
		It's weird, the whole story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, it is weird, but of course it would be.
unidentified		Yeah, how long were you in 1983, Port?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a good question.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		What was the question again?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long were you in 1983?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Oh, in terms of approximately 12 hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		12 hours, yeah, long enough to watch TV and have all this explained to you and so forth and so on.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the time, I might add the time flow at Montauk was not necessarily linear.
		They could dilate time and stretch it any way they want.
		So 12 hours there sounds peculiar because it was only four hours the ship was gone.
		But if you look at the whole matrix of this business of time, all kinds of distortions are possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildguard Line, you're on the air with Al Belick.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're all here.
unidentified		Here's T-H.
unidentified		Honolulu Hawaii.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Honolulu, all right.
unidentified		Yes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Let's see.
unidentified		Oh, when you time travel, is it like a near-death experience or an out-of-body experience?
unidentified		Would you see a white light or anything like that?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		This was not out-of-body, this was in body.
unidentified		In body?
		Yeah.
		Did you have any experiences like These near-death experiences where they see a white light or go through a tunnel?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		I have not had any near-death experiences.
		No, the business of the tunnel, however, has come up at least once.
		I have not achieved any good answers to what that was in relation to.
unidentified		Well, in the movie, it seemed like the whole ship and the whole group did sort of like a group, you know, a near-death experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that was that you look, you were looking at, in the movie, you were looking at the end of it, the experiment.
		And if you recall, I think Al did describe pretty well what he saw and sensed as he fell through what was kind of a blackness.
		Oh.
		Okay, so that's not the white light, not the typical NDE experience.
		This was physical time travel.
		East of the Rockies, you're on there with Al Bilick.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, how are you doing?
unidentified		Al, it's a pleasure to talk to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, where are you, sir?
unidentified		Hi, this is George in Philadelphia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, George.
unidentified		Okay, my question is, Duncan Cameron.
unidentified		Yeah, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's very weak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll try and get away.
unidentified		All right, Duncan Cameron, is he still alive?
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The question is, is Duncan Cameron still alive?
		Yes, he is.
		And does he talk about this?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		He has occasionally, and occasionally I've gotten him out on the lecture circuit to talk about the Philadelphia experiment, but he doesn't like to talk about it too much.
		He's a very shy and retiring person.
		He was a mainstay at Montauk, and he was anything but shy during that period.
		However, as it collapsed, or before it collapsed, he became rather reticent and shy, and he's been that way ever since.
unidentified		Thank you.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Rather reticent and shy, and he's been that way ever since.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what about the psychological effects on you, not just of the whole experience, but of seeing these sailors die so horribly?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Well, it had quite an effect on me at the time, I can assure you.
		And it was even more of an effect when I was assigned to the burial detail.
		They cut the plates out of the deck with the bodies, and I was in charge of the burial detail in an area at that time was open country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even then, they kept things compartmentalized.
		Listen, Al, we're out of time.
		You're going to speak in Atlanta tonight, at 8 o'clock, which is why you've got to go now.
		Where is that going to be?
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		And at the Cop Galleria Center, they're prepared in the show.
		It's on the second floor in Hall C. And it will be open all day from 10 a.m. to 2, 9 p.m.
		And may be open tomorrow also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can people get tickets during the day?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does it require tickets or what?
unidentified		Yes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		It's a $7 admission charge, point reasonable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can get all $7.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can get it at the door.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they can come and listen to you at 8 o'clock.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Tonight there will be some of the speakers, and I'm one of them, there'll be a $5 additional charge for the seminar.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that also is nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Al Bielick, thank you so much for taking the time to be with me, and I hope there's a big crowd there for you tomorrow.
al bielek ▲ ● ▼		Thanks very much, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't forget to do later.
		Take care, my friend.
		That is Al Bielick.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast, A.M. Judge, too quickly.
		Perhaps you should hear a fax that just came in.
		This is from Marie.
		Addressed to Art and guest now gone, of course.
		Subject, corroborating events of the Philadelphia Experiment.
		Art, I have faxed this information to you in the past, but I'll restate the information passed on to me by a daughter of a crewman, one of the crewmen on one of the experimental ships.
		He, the father, was not on the ship that day.
		He was, however, aware of the following symptoms experienced by his former shipmates after the ship reappeared.
		Some were dead.
		Some unaccountable.
		Some found merged with the ship in the metal, literally.
		Some were still alive, some untouched.
		Most left alive were put into mental wards.
		A few were able to function amongst other men on base for some time.
		One of them was observed eating in the cafeteria.
		His hand and the fork literally began to disappear.
		One walked through a wall.
		They'd fade in and out.
		To those observing them, those who faded would fade back in.
		There was a newspaper article saved by the family of the daughter mentioned above.
		It would have authenticated the events of one of the experiments.
		Her father told her of more than one experiment.
		One in which the ship ended up in another harbor farther south, having begun on northern Atlantic coast of the USA.
		One in which the ship disappeared.
		So many things your guest has said are the same things I was told by her before 1992.
		He's stating so many things that are the same that this must have happened.
		And that is from Marie.
		Call poll free, 1-800-618-8255.
		Okay, East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		This is Eric in Houston.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Eric.
unidentified		Listening to you on KTR8, 740 a.m.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Very frustrating hour for me.
		I was the one who called earlier about Carl Allen.
		Carl Allen.
		The strangest thing, Art, you're not going to believe this, but you put me on hold the first time, and I heard a click, and then another click, and then I heard a ringing tone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		And then all of a sudden the operator comes on saying, if you like it, if you like it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
unidentified		And then you put me on hold again, and then it happened again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is not unusual.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not kidding.
		Lately, my phones, last night was a really good example.
		And we've had lots of other examples have been totally weird.
		These phones have been totally weird.
unidentified		Yeah.
		The only thing I wanted, and I wanted to ask Mr. Bielick and maybe someone attending tomorrow can ask him or some later date.
		Carl Allen, also known as Carlos Allende, was a curious figure.
		This story is detailed in Jacques Mali's Revelations.
		Morris K. Jessup was an astronomer who wrote a book on flying saucers back in the early 50s.
		And about a few years later, a strange marked-up copy of his book was sent to him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A marked-up copy.
unidentified		Yes.
		Well, I mean, not like, you know, something random, but I mean, multicolored and detailed marginalia.
		I'll get you.
		And such.
		And amongst, and it was allegedly sent by this Carl Allen, sometimes he called himself Carlos Ayende.
		And among other things in that book was the story of the Philadelphia experiment.
		He claimed to be a crew member on the ship, on one of the experiments, anyway.
		And, you know, he...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
unidentified		Exactly.
unidentified		So, anyway, that was my question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, maybe it will be posed, as you point out, later in the day when Al speaks in Atlanta.
		You know, there's an awful lot of corroborating evidence for what Al had to say.
		wild a tale as you may believe it to be.
		And that is why it so strongly continues to exist today because the East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Yes.
		Hi, Eric.
		This is Roger from Chicago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Roger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How's Chicago this morning?
unidentified		Oh, it's all right.
		Suppose I didn't do it.
		But anyways, I was wondering, in relation to Felix, you know, Tobert the Roses, how epidemics, how they had come back over the years?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we have one coming back right now, actually.
unidentified		Yeah, I was wondering if it was possible maybe military experiments were saying like Ebola would happen there in Africa.
unidentified		If there could have been time trail experiments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, anything's possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't be able to answer that.
unidentified		I'd, of course, have no way of answering that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But with regard to diseases in general, one might imagine there is, of course, always the danger of a little bug, a virus, something like Ebola, racing through humanity and virtually destroying it.
		If time travel is possible, then one might imagine the Earth, literally the population of the Earth, could be saved by manipulation of time.
		If manipulation of time is possible.
		And I can't answer that one.
		First time caller line, you're on ear.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, I can barely hear you, sir.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're not too strong.
unidentified		Can you hear me now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Much better, thank you.
		Go ahead.
		Huh?
unidentified		Huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, I said.
unidentified		I was kind of wondering, did you know that the Philadelphia Experiment was put on the NN tonight?
unidentified		No, are you sure it was the original?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or was it the Philadelphia Experiment 2?
unidentified		I'm not sure on that.
unidentified		I just saw the advertisement for it on the other side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's been on lately, sir.
		Yes, I'm aware of it.
		Thank you.
		And what they're running, I commented on this earlier, is the Philadelphia Experiment 2.
		And I think compared to the original movie, it's horsebook.
		And frankly, Albelick, with one exception, agrees with that assessment.
		The original movie was dynamite and very close to what actually happened.
unidentified		Don't be fooled.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Philadelphia Experiment 2 is now running on the movie channels, and it's a story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello, how are you doing tonight, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
unidentified		Still, I live outside of Cleveland, and my call isn't so much related to the evening show, but I just caught the tail end of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're in Open Lines, man.
unidentified		And I was just curious, have you heard the names of the Hopi Eldies that are going to be on next week?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but I'm not giving them out.
unidentified		Okay, because I've been honestly for a year trying to finish reading this book, The Hopi Survival Kit.
		I've been putting off reading the last chapter.
		I'm just going to try to read it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're intentionally not giving out their names because of the amount of pressure that would be applied prior to the broadcast if we did.
unidentified		I'm sure that makes sense.
		I'll be looking forward to hearing it.
		I'm going to try to find a way to work it into my delete schedule next week so they can hear it live.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, my friend.
		Thank you.
		I'm looking forward to it as well.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yeah, it's decent down here, guys.
		Oh, yeah.
		The Antichrist line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I have the Antichrist line, yes.
unidentified		I'm going to mention a few things about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		actually in the Bible, it mentions that there's not just one Antichrist, in fact, it mentions that there's We had Antichrist calling all night long.
unidentified		In fact, they mentioned in John or 1 John 4, verse 3 or chapter 4, verse 13.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please don't quote it, Jimmy.
unidentified		It says that there's many among them, or there will be, or they will be there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you figure?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About 10% of them called me?
unidentified		Well, it does mention awful few then that there's some were there back then at that time.
unidentified		And basically, it says that if you say that there is no Christ or Christ is not God, come to earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That you joined the Antichrist.
		I got you.
		Well, yeah, we had a full night of the Antichrist callers.
		And I mulled over that program for a long time after we did it.
		And when you think about it, it was a very meaningful program.
		Whether or not we heard from any real Antichrist is academic.
		What we did here, I think, would support years of study at one of our better academic institutions in the country.
		Period.
		Maybe even a whole new bookings report.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going once, twice, three times, gone.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning, Art.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Don't mean to exactly change the subject.
		No, it's fine.
		We're open once.
		Okay.
		Well, as far as...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just do your best.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take your best shot.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		As far as the world, quote unquote, coming to an end.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I've never told anyone about this or anything, but I have all my life had dreams of that happening.
unidentified		Well, there's only one thing that we know for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you die, for you, the world has ended.
unidentified		This is true.
unidentified		And one thing that I would like to point out is I have a very intimate feeling about this and that it's not going to be good for anyone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Many, many have that same feeling.
unidentified		And currently, I'm working on packing my backpack and I have medications, first aid kit, hatchet, already packed and ready to go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that's good advice for everybody.
		Anybody out there who doesn't listen to what's going on, whether you reject a great deal of what you hear or not, and do some basic preparation, is out of their minds.
		I really mean that.
		You're out of your mind.
		And of course, you will be the first to go.
		Those who are unprepared, whatever happens, will be the first to go.
		And even if none of it happens, and we just have the continued disruptive weather patterns and killer tornadoes and hurricanes and all the rest of it, if you have prepared, you have done a good thing for your family.
		Right?
		On the international line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is Jeff Collins from Vancouver, British Columbia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jeff.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Good.
		I just wanted to make a comment.
		You were talking in a show earlier this week about gun control and how you didn't believe it had anything to do with some of the young people going in their classroom and very blowing people away for no reason.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, if you take away the guns, for example, the young man who, our most recent horrible incident, as you know, occurred in Oregon, right?
		Yes.
		Well, he, that young man, when they, of course, apprehended him and searched his home, they found more guns and at least five large sophisticated anti-personnel bombs.
		So if we were to have taken the guns away from him and he wanted to kill a bunch of people, he still could have done it.
		So if you really think gun control would prevent this sort of thing, tell me how.
unidentified		Oh, no, I don't.
		I actually wanted to agree with you because I grew up in the country and me and all my friends had guns.
		When we were 14, 15 years old, we grew up hunting with guns and none of us ever thought of using them against anyone else.
		Everybody when I grew up had guns.
		It was a commonplace thing.
		And I'm not a very old guy, but we never ever thought of going in and blowing away our classmates.
		So I just wanted to agree with you on that comment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you for doing so.
		And, you know, look, guns are just things, machines, mechanical devices.
		That's all they are.
		And there are far more sophisticated mechanical devices capable of far more efficient mass killing.
		So we should not be arguing about guns.
		We should be arguing about social behavior and why we have this going on.
		And I don't buy into the too much TV arguments, the movies, the video games.
		I don't buy any of that at the expense of repeating myself.
		I think there is something else at work here.
		And that's what we're getting today.
		Now, I don't claim to know what it is.
		I really don't.
unidentified		But some other force is at work here, and I'll leave it at that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
		Hi, Art.
		Yes.
unidentified		Hey, this is Sterling and Reno.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hey, I was calling Change Hubsticks about the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what about the moon?
unidentified		I was wondering if you could open a line for people who've been to the moon.
		Well, I...
		Not yet.
		Trying to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, with respect to the Apollo program, there are only a very few that have been to the moon.
unidentified		Bet that's true, but several of your guests have talked about bases on the backside.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they speculate about that, you know.
unidentified		That's true.
unidentified		I'm just wondering if any of the personnel would like to call in and talk to you about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		All right.
		Well, maybe we'll do that one morning.
		I'm personally leaning toward the confession line first, but...
		Well, we'll get to a moon line.
		Why not?
		What the hell?
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you're welcome.
		Wildguard line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll turn that radio on.
unidentified		Yes, yes.
		Hello.
		Hello, Art.
		This is Jerry from Shady Cove.
		Are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Shady Cove, Oregon.
unidentified		Yes.
		Okay.
		Yeah, I don't have the vocabulary that Ed Dames has.
		I'd like to, but I don't.
		But I just want to, so I'll just, you just have to try to understand what I want to say.
		The first thing I want to say to your audience is not to believe the doomsday predictions this guy is giving out.
		If you believe him, you'll be the loser.
		Prophecy is a gift of God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And any prophet that is less than 100% accurate is a false prophet, right?
unidentified		Well, you can say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I did say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the Bible says that, and that's what people like you believe.
unidentified		Well, the real prophets, the real prophets do not give out bad Tuesday.
unidentified		Prophecy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how do you know it's bad?
unidentified		Well, I know it by the statement of somebody that everybody in metaphysics is familiar with, but he never goes public with it.
		What?
		St. Germain.
		He's a lot smarter than these psychics are.
		And I think it's time that your audience needs to know that these psychic predictions are made by people who are newcomers to the psychic plane.
		They always make these predictions of disaster, but they're real...
		St. Germain would never have given a prediction like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then what would have made you believe it?
		You said St. Germain.
		That's how you knew it wasn't real.
unidentified		Yes, and he's a lot smarter than you psyche, sorry.
		And he has not made public statements about this in private yet.
		That's your idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've heard Ed Dames in private?
unidentified		No, I've heard Ed Dames on your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You just said he said it in private.
unidentified		In private, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how do you know that?
unidentified		Coming in his books.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Huh?
unidentified		Reading his books.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		His books are public, sir.
unidentified		Well, not really.
		The public is not really that much aware of them.
		He doesn't try to publicize his ideas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		Yeah, as far as I know, you see, unfortunately for you, sir, he hasn't written a book.
		It was one of the key questions last night.
		Hey, Ed, have you written or are you going to write a book?
		Answer, no.
		So you're reading, you may be reading some book or another, but it wasn't by Ed Dames.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		I look at it daily.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air, hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		This is...
		Hi, Art.
		This is Joe from Kwamath Falls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Joe.
unidentified		Listening to the radio station KAGO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I was going to ask you a couple things.
		I wanted to talk to you before.
		I never did get a chance to get my subject out.
		My dad, I believe, was on the Eldridge, was the Philadelphia experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your dad?
unidentified		I believe so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, why do you believe that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did he tell you that?
unidentified		He told me a lot of facts that I had no idea what he was talking about.
		And then I started listening to your show, and someone on your show, I think it was some old colonel or something, he was about my dad's age, and he said something was, quote, unquote, exactly what my dad said.
		He was in a hospital, after having been on the Navy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the Navy.
unidentified		Could it have been Al Balik?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
unidentified		Could what have been Al Belick?
		No, my dad?
		No, the person who...
		I don't remember his name.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I interviewed Al Balik.
unidentified		He did the Philadelphia experiment story.
		It was, yeah, it was the person who said that they were one of the survivors of the 25 guys.
		I believe 23 of them alive.
		Some of them died.
		Yep.
		The story was that he was saying was that there was a hospital.
		He was, or, no, he called it soul transplanting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is your dad still alive?
unidentified		My dad's alive.
		He underwent shock treatment after this situation in the Navy where all he told me was he got on the ship, he was in the ship, getting ready to go across the ocean, and then he was diagnosed with some medical problem, taken off the ship, and given shock treatment and told crazy, and in my opinion, brainwashed, because now every time I ask him, the more and more I got into probing him, the less and less he would tell me.
		He's a recluse that lives way out on a ranch, far, far away from any city as you can get.
		Something similar to what I'm sure maybe you sound like you're in.
		I mean, this guy, I don't know what it is about it, but then now he tells me he never even went on the ship.
		Each time I get closer to telling him, you know, it's like he knows the whole story, but he's trusting in the government and he won't dispose the information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why don't you put me in touch with your father?
unidentified		I've been trying to get a hold of you for so long and tell you the story.
unidentified		I got on the air twice, but I wanted to be polite and talk the subject and ask the caller.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		Well, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is open lines.
unidentified		Talk about anything you want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what I'm asking is, why not put your dad in touch with me?
unidentified		The thing, I would do that, but one, I know he'd clam up.
		And two, he's been called crazy to the point that he believes he himself is crazy.
		He doesn't even trust anything he would say or think about it.
		He's fairly slow, too.
		He doesn't answer quickly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		But see, when I talk to him, he's totally clear.
		He's totally clear.
		It's almost as if he uses that they told him he was crazy as an excuse to, you know, do whatever he wants to do or say whatever he wants to say.
		But when I, see, the thing is, is I was taken away from my father, my mother at birth.
		They didn't know who my father was for sure.
		And I was adopted by a colonel in the Air Force.
		And I, this is a true story.
		Now it's going to sound far-fetched because it's so, since I started listening to your show, I've been trying to get through to you.
		I was adopted out of Roswell, New Mexico.
		Is that strange or what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm a city.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to remember there's lots of normal citizens in Roswell.
unidentified		Oh, no.
		This is why I'm coming to believe.
		So I didn't know that.
		I thought it was just an Air Force base because I was adopted on an Air Force base, and I never even knew that that was actually like a city or anything.
		And then I heard your term, somebody mentioned a double dimple baby's adopted from Roswell.
		Have you heard that before?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		Well, it probably didn't come from my show.
		I appreciate the call.
		But I'm not exactly sure where you're coming from, other than Roswell.
unidentified		Interesting, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I have wondered many times, those people that we call crazy, or that we convince institutionally that they are crazy, how many really are?
unidentified		And how many perhaps are not so crazy?
unidentified		Just conveniently labeled that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		International line?
unidentified		Aileen from Vancouver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the program.
unidentified		Thank you.
		You know, if there's one thing that Kent Smith should have taught us all, it's how to tell a liar.
		And I noticed it from the reversals because there's a lot of stalling in his speech, a lot of pauses.
		And that's where reversals tend to occur.
		Yeah, and the words like er, um, uh, and repeating words to fill empty air so that you can think about your fabrication that you're going to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The other problem, though, is that there are a lot of people who have a slight halting type of speech as a normal course of events.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how do you tell between the two?
unidentified		Well, I think that if somebody's speaking truth, it just pours out of them.
unidentified		They don't have to stop to think about the alternative dialogue in their mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, but there are a lot of people with slight speech impediments.
		Take David Oates as an example.
		He has a speech impediment.
unidentified		That's what led him to the study of speech in the first place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there are people with varying degrees of speech ability.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some of them have halting thought processes, and it results in halting speech.
unidentified		And so, you know, I'm not sure how you tell the difference.
		Well, I think that it was Kent that made me skeptical about people like that.
		And Robert, the interdimensional traveler, he had a couple of contradictions that I noticed.
		He was here studying history, he was saying.
		But then he said he wasn't a history buff.
		So that doesn't make any sense to me.
		And also he said that our timelines split at a certain point.
		When was that?
		Can you recall?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I seem to recall him saying 1920-something, 60.
unidentified		Exactly.
unidentified		And then he went and said that their automobile and their timeline was invented in the 1840s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Which would have been if our timelines split in 19 something, then they would have been the same.
		Now, when was our automobile?
		Then the automobile would have been the same.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see your point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see your point.
unidentified		Well, maybe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It may be that many things followed in the two alternate universes.
		Not precisely so.
		I mean, he did say there were a lot of differences, that we mainly followed a similar plane.
		I don't see that as necessarily a contradiction.
		It may be that their technical civilization developed before ours.
unidentified		But the timelines were the same, he said, up until 1940 or 1920.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not precisely the same.
unidentified		Pretty much the same.
		Okay.
		All righty then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thanks for the call.
		In other words, if you recall, he said, pretty much the same.
unidentified		There were differences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But we were fairly similar until and then, I think it was in the 1920s.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Oh, no.
		It's a voice changer.
		First-time callers, call area 702-727-1222.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, this is Jim calling from Maryland.
		Hello, Jim.
		Apollo 13 was headed for the moon when it blew up.
		Remember?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When it blew up?
unidentified		Yeah, the oxygen tank blew.
		Oh, yes.
		And they got them back.
		Yes, I recall.
		Slingshot around the moon came back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, correct.
		Well, so it is said.
		Others say we never went.
unidentified		A lack of a 79-cent electrical think, as it's called.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that's all it takes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're dealing with a very, very high-tech machine, and one little part not working can bring the whole machine down.
unidentified		NASA called somebody I'm very close to and asked him what happened at the time.
		Anyway, your time traveler should be able to tell you what happens tomorrow.
		What's the New York Times headline if he's a good time traveler?
		Jane?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess I could ask that.
unidentified		Yeah, that'll be a good one.
unidentified		The problem with ufology...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes?
unidentified		To make it more...
		I've been a journalist for 32 years, retired now.
		I think that if they would be less condescending and pompous about what they've got and be more explicit and try to get more down to earth because the mainline press...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think they're pompous?
unidentified		A little bit and condescending, from what I've heard.
		I've been listening to you about two months now, and they've got to get to the mainstream press deals in the here and now.
		They don't understand or don't see what the relevance is to what happened 10,000 years ago to our lives today.
		In other words, news is north, east, south, and west, as you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to be doing an interview later today with the New York Times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would you suggest I say?
unidentified		Try to get them to ask NASA some pertinent questions.
		And you certainly are loaded with them.
		Try to get them to ask some of those questions that you'd like to ask.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well actually, I'm going to be interviewed so I can make that.
unidentified		Oh, you're going to be interviewed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, they're going to interview me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		New York Times wants to interview me.
unidentified		Okay.
		Where do the pictures stand?
		The latest.
		those are the overnight pictures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Davenport and an incredible unfolding story of something that flew Let us go now to Seattle, Washington, where finally at home again.
		He spent about a month on the East Coast.
		Peter Davenport has quite a number of reports for us on things that have been going on recently.
		And so to Peter Davenport at the UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, I. Good evening, Eric.
		Good evening, Peter.
		There's a lot going on, I guess, huh?
		Boy, is there ever.
		Have you heard the...
unidentified		Hear me better now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's better.
		I want to alert everybody, there has been a very serious X-class flare and coronal mass ejection on the sun.
		And if they would like to see it, they can.
		I suggest they go to my website and go to the links down at the bottom where it says links.
		And the first link will take you to actual photographs of what's going on on the sun.
		And you can go see a prediction.
		But we are having one hell of a magnetic storm right now that may even affect electrical grids.
		We're actually having that storm as I speak.
		Just wanted to get that in.
		Peter?
		Yeah.
		What's going on?
unidentified		Very interesting.
		Well, we had so many fascinating reports during the month of April, Art.
		I almost don't know where to begin.
		I've been sitting here for the last couple of hours trying to make heads or tails out of a month's worth of data.
		And every time I stumble upon a new case that came in during the month, I say, oh, that's the case I should include as well.
		But the case that I would like to focus on, I think it's the most interesting, it's the most well-documented.
		From my standpoint, it's the closest to home.
		And perhaps the most interesting is a case that occurred on the 22nd of April Wednesday night that I alluded to and described briefly on Dreamland just about eight days ago.
		But we have more data now.
		I'm back in Seattle.
		We have the written reports.
		We've talked to the witnesses to this alleged object that went from north to south over the state of Washington.
		We don't know what the elapsed time was, but my suspicion is it was probably less than a minute, maybe two minutes at the most.
		And the reason that it is so interesting to me is that we now have solid evidence, Art, and this is the most interesting thing, I think, to our audience.
		We now have solid evidence that the object slowed down and almost came to a stop over the very high security nuclear weapons storage facility at Bangor Submarine Base, just about 20 miles west of Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
unidentified		The reason we know this, and this sort of cuts to what Bob Dean has said on your programs in the past with regard to an incident that occurred, I think, sometime back in the 1960s, when allegedly a disc was reported above a missile silo.
unidentified		I think it was somewhere out in Montana, maybe out of Melmstrom Air Force Base.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is not allegedly, because I have interviewed the people who were there.
		Yeah, I have interviewed the people who actually did the report and the follow-up investigation.
		There's nothing alleged about this.
		They shut those missiles down.
unidentified		I agree.
		And one of those gentlemen is from up here in Bellevue, Washington, just very across the lake from Seattle.
		I've met him.
		He's a very, very, very impressive guy.
		And when he says something, you just have the impression that he's telling the truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But don't forget, Peter, the Air Force doesn't investigate these kinds of things because they're not a threat to national security.
unidentified		Yeah, that's obviously the case.
		They may not be a threat to the Air Force, but in my very lengthy conversation with a very nice gentleman in the public relations office of Bangor Submarine Facility today, I got the distinct impression that the Navy is much more interested in these alleged non-events than the Air Force is.
		And we got admission today from that Office of Public Affairs that people inside the Bangor submarine facility apparently reported this incident as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No kidding.
unidentified		So we have multiple sightings from outside the base and apparent tentative corroboration of these reports from personnel inside the base, although I'm quick to admit that we don't know the details surrounding those alleged reports inside the base.
		I would not imagine you would.
		And we may never.
		And I have to be frank with our listeners.
		I'm going to play some audio cuts here in the course of this program tonight, I hope, that will give our listeners a very good feeling for the quality of data we have on this case.
		It is very good.
		It comes from multiple sources, seemingly independent sources.
		And I just have to say that my gut instincts tell me that this is a very interesting case.
		There's a great deal more investigation that has to be done, of course.
		We don't yet know for sure, but the facts...
		The object went north to south across the state of Washington.
		Yes.
		With a stop on the way.
		Actually, two.
		Actually, two stops on the way.
		Changed direction twice.
		And did all this in the course of a minute or two?
		Yes.
		Change directions, was seen to come down vertically, Possibly vertically through solid overcast about 20 miles north of Seattle, although that's not entirely clear quite yet.
		Is there any way, by the way, of estimating the geography covered in the time, estimating speeds with the stops in mind?
		Has anybody done that?
		Yeah, elapsed time and distances are known.
		It covered probably 200 to 250 miles in, I'm guessing now, a minute or less.
		And that includes its slowing, apparently, allegedly slowing down to a virtual standstill over what's known as the SWIFT pack, the special weapons storage facility for the Pacific Fleet, which is located at the Bangor Submarine Facility.
		Holy smokes.
		That includes about a five-second or so stop over that facility, and it apparently sped up and passed over Olympia at a very high rate of speed.
		By the time it got down to Vancouver, it sounds to us at this time, of course, all of this is subject to amendment following our investigations, but it sounds that it slowed down somewhat near Vancouver, Washington.
		And just last Wednesday, we got a report from Portland, Oregon as well.
		It was seen there.
		But in that case, it was not going north to south.
		It was allegedly going west to east.
		So that was the second turn we believe that the object may have made in the course of about a minute.
		All right, why don't you give us whatever audio you might have on this?
		Yeah, the first cut I would like to play is one of the first reports we got on the evening of the 22nd of April, Wednesday.
		Comes from a young lad, age 16, goes to school up in Snoomish County, just about 20 miles north of Seattle.
		He and his mother were witness to something that they believe came down through the clouds.
		Here's about a 60-second cut of what this lad had to report he and his mother saw.
		Here we go.
		All right.
		Did you see on the 22nd of April, Peter?
		Well, I saw a blue light that seemed to hover in the clouds.
		It was blue in the center, light blue in the center with a blue yolk almost around it.
		It hovered there for about 30 seconds and, or, excuse me, about three seconds when it started to grow a tail.
		And it was still stable when it grew the tail.
		And then it shooted down across the sky at about a 45-degree angle.
		And that took for about five to six seconds for it to shoot down across the sky and disappear below the horizon.
		In what direction do you think UFA was going as it left your position?
		From my position, it was headed about south, I believe.
		And where were you located at the time of your sighting, please?
		I was located about three miles south of Kenwanda Gulf Park, Miss Mahawa.
		Mm-hmm.
		Okay, so about roughly 20 miles north of Seattle.
		Yeah.
		Okay.
		That sounds like something out of Star Trek.
		It grew a tail and then...
		Give it.
		Well, okay, absolutely.
		Go right ahead.
		Let me go to the next cut.
		It's about 100 seconds long, I think.
		That's fine.
		A little bit longer.
		This is the report we took from a gentleman who is located very close to the periphery of Bangor Submarine Base.
	He got a very good look at this, and I'm just going to leave it up to him to describe what he saw.
	All right.
	Here we go.
	Bangor Submarine Base, 22nd of April.
	Okay, it was approximately 9.20 p.m. on Wednesday evening, and I live about a half mile from the Bangor submarine base.
	I was looking out a second floor bedroom window towards the base when I noticed a circular dish-shaped object approximately three-quarter mile from my house.
	It was also about 300 feet above the ground, about 200 feet above the tree line.
	The object appeared to be 50 to 60 feet long and was moving from a north to south direction towards the center of the Bangor submarine base.
	It was circular, but it was tilted at about, it seemed to be tilted at about a 35 degree angle with the bottom towards me.
	And because of that tilt, there was a slight oval shape to it.
	And what did you see on the bottom of it?
	The entire bottom of the craft was glowing with a white light.
	It wasn't a bright light that shone down to the ground.
	It was more just a very bright white glow.
	Except for the center section, there was a circular area in the center that comprised about 30% of the diameter of the disk.
	And that center section was black.
	The center section was black.
	Holy mackerel.
	And that object was, so far as we can tell, at this point, directly over the bunkers that are located on Bangor Submarine Facility.
	What bunkers are those?
	For the storage of, no doubt, very special military assets, special weapons.
	Nuclear?
	I would presume that's the case, but it's a very highly guarded facility.
	I've never been there.
	I've flown over it.
	I've seen it.
	It looks like a very posh Dallas suburb, except everything is underground.
	Long, long roads with bunkers with roads leading to each one of them.
	So I'm fairly certain that the contents are very high-priority military assets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I get the picture.
unidentified		So this object was seen up 20 miles north of Seattle going south-southwest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hovering above our assets.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Headed directly towards Bangor Submarine Base.
		The next report we got is from Bangor Submarine Base.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold that report until after the break.
		Thank you very much.
		Peter Davenport, a very, very good investigation.
		Well, what do you think they might want with our assets?
		That's pretty curious stuff, huh?
		Headed toward the bottom of the hour, the top of the hour tonight with big news from the Vatican is Father Malachi Martin.
		It is going to be one whale of a week.
		Stay right where you are.
		Incredible unfolding story of something that flew north to south, then did some jogs and stops, and cruised right over our assets at the Bangor submarine base.
unidentified		Peter?
unidentified		Yeah, it's a fascinating story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, it sure is.
unidentified		I find this one to be alarming.
		Again, everything we report at this stage is tentative.
		It's under investigation.
		We may find out certain facts that may change our opinion in the future.
		But what our listeners are hearing tonight is our best guesstimate of what happened just about 12 nights ago over the state of Washington.
		I'd like to play one or two more cuts here that will give our listeners a little deeper understanding of what was seen further to the south, and it underscores just how anomalous this object and this event apparently were.
		We had several reports in rapid sequence, making this case what we refer to as a self-corroborating case in the sense that people, apparently independently of one another, are reporting the same event with all of its peculiarities as viewed from their respective vantages.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no time for one witness to know the testimony of another.
unidentified		That's our presumption as well, Archie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, sure.
unidentified		The next cut I'd like to play is about a minute long.
		It's from a gentleman who resides just about 10 or 15, maybe 20 miles south of Seattle.
		He was looking to the west from his residence in Auburn, Washington.
		And I'd like to play what he had to report to us that he saw that night.
		Here we go.
		And what did you see, please?
		On April 22nd, 925, around at night, I was out in the back.
		I noticed that facing west in Auburn, Washington, that there's green light up in the sky that about the color of a stoplight.
		And it...
		Yeah, green traffic signal light.
		You know, about that kind of a glow to it.
		And color-wise, it was headed to the southwest.
		And I just got a glimpse of it for about two, maybe three seconds.
		And what was its size relative to a full moon, would you say, please?
		Oh, smaller than half.
		But this was, it was going a lot faster than the air traffic.
		A heck of a lot faster and a heck of a lot slower than what a shooting star would be.
		There was no...
		No, no.
		No.
		Okay.
		That's what he had to report.
		And the color green always flags a situation like this as being a potential meteorite.
		There are meteors or meteorites out there that have a lot of copper in them.
		Consequently, when they fly into the Earth's atmosphere and they heat up, they give off a characteristic blue or blue-green.
		Some people describe it as turquoise color.
		But meteorites rarely stop.
		That's correct.
		And this was a big one.
		This gentleman described it as approximately half the diameter of a full moon in the night sky.
		That is a very, very large and very prominent object.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is.
unidentified		And one significant thing, nobody has reported any sound whatsoever.
		There was no sonic boom, which is characteristic of a meteor in most, or not most circumstances, but in circumstances in which the object was seen to apparently come as close to the ground as this one was, one is apt to hear sonic booms.
		And the first cut I played from about 20 miles north of Seattle had the object below solid overcast.
		And that was at a measured 5,000 feet above ground level, I think it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At the speeds you're talking about, windows should have been broken down across the state.
unidentified		Houses might have been blown off their foundations by an object doing this velocity at less than 5,000 feet above ground level.
		The next cut is very interesting.
		It comes from a woman who is down just south of Olympia, Washington near Rochester, Washington.
		She and her son were driving to the west.
		And, well, let me just play what they have to report that they saw shortly after this last report I just played.
		Here we go.
		And what did you see, please?
		Okay, on Wednesday, April 22nd at about 9.20 p.m., my two sons and I were driving west on Hunter Road Southwest, which is about a mile north of Highway 12 between Rochester and Oakville, Washington.
		And this object sky, very quickly we saw something that looked like a tail, a green tail, but it was only for a split second that we saw that, and then the object continued on by itself without the tail, and it was a little smaller than the moon in comparison to us.
		And it had a greenish glow around the whole entire object, but it also had three little areas above and below that looked like there was maybe a place where lights were showing or something that had a little different glow to them, more of a whitish color or yellowish colour.
		And how long did you estimate you just watched it, please?
		We must have seen it about two to three seconds, and it went very quickly, much quicker than any airplane or jet that we've ever seen.
		And it was going from a north-south direction at about a, I'd say, 55, 45 to 60 degree angle, I could say.
		And it was, to us, it looked like it kind of followed the mountain, the hillside that we have over here.
		And it did a little funny jog back up the same way that the mountain does.
		And that's why I thought that's not a meteor or meteorite because it was able to go back up and then continue on the flight path that it was going on.
		And then it went down below the tree line.
		And I expected to either see an explosion or something or see it bounce back up because it was right down close to where the horizon is, the ground.
		So that's her description.
		And this is the third person who has reported to us that the object maneuvered in one respect or another.
		And not only that, but she describes in great detail at another point during our conversation how it appeared to have three lights situated on the top of a disk-shaped object and three lights on the bottom.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a fancy meteorite.
unidentified		Yes, it is.
		And it went down and then it went back up.
		Now, there's the possibility that it was some kind of optical illusion because it was very close to the horizon or very close to the outline of a mountain to the west of her vantage point.
		I gather sometimes when a very bright light is close to the horizon, tricks can be played on the human visual system.
		But she described it in great detail as to how it maneuvered.
		Well, if it were going horizontally, the Earth is curved.
		If it was not maintaining a certain altitude and simply traversed the horizon, it would appear to be up and go down and then go back up again.
		Yep.
		And that object was then reported from Vancouver, Washington by a couple who had a very good look at it.
		And just Wednesday night of last week, we got a report from a young gentleman, a musician, who was coming out of a facility down there, and he saw the object going from west to east, he believes it was.
		So the object, we presume, may have made a turn somewhere down near Portland, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again.
		Again.
		Meteorite knots.
		Yep.
unidentified		And all of them reported the object was absolutely silent.
		Nothing was hurt.
		But that was one of, I estimate, about four dozen good cases during the month of April, Art.
		And I almost regret focusing on this case, as interesting as it is, because it ignores the case that was reported to us on the 11th of April, a commercial airliner in airspace above Edwards Air Force Base that was called up by Joshua Control, Joshua Center.
		That's the air traffic control center at Edwards Air Force Base.
		They called up this particular airline pilot.
		I've spoken with him myself.
		They apprised him that he had two objects that had just passed his aircraft going the opposite direction from his direction of flight.
		And they did an instant 180-degree turn change of direction.
		And they're now pursuing his aircraft.
		And they suddenly were seen to accelerate on radar.
		This is a radar sighting case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yo, wow.
unidentified		And overtake his aircraft.
		I talked to him.
		He was quick to admit that neither he nor his first officer saw anything, not a thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All of this was from radar.
unidentified		All of this was a radar sighting.
		This is one of two radar sighting cases that were reported to the UFO reporting center during the month of April.
		We got another case.
		This was on the 7th of April, I believe.
		It's very hard, isn't it, to get these guys to talk on publicly the radar people?
		Well, this was a military radar facility in Coal Tower.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Impossible.
unidentified		Translate that to impossible.
		It threatens their jobs, I think.
		Yeah, well, I know.
		It's one of the reasons that I have severe reservation about a professional military, because when you and I were in the military, I presume we were in about the same time.
		We had a draft, up until 1968, anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		And those individuals who were drafted into the military, I think, to a large degree, serve to keep the military honest.
		Just as a free press keeps a democracy honest, many of those draftees kept the professional military honest.
		Yeah, I'll tell you, you're right.
		In the career military, there's a lot of politic that goes on.
		Absolutely.
		Unbelievable amounts of it.
		And everybody's afraid of losing his career, losing his promotion, losing his retirement pension.
		That's right.
		And consequently, they can be leaned on.
		Of course, let me be fair with those people in the military.
		They are under civilian control.
		They can do nothing that they are not allowed by their superior officer to do or say.
		We all understand that.
		But I think it is unfortunate, is the most polite thing I can say, that in a democracy, the military can be in a position where they deny the civilians.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The military is under civilian control constitutionally, but when you're in the Air Force, you are under the control of, if you are enlisted, your first sergeant and your commanding officer and a whole lot of people above that before you would ever think about civilian control.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if somebody tells you to shut your mouth, you know, somebody like your commander, you shut your mouth.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's all.
unidentified		Until you get to become a short-timer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's all.
unidentified		And then you can do all sorts of things that you couldn't do safely.
unidentified		Anyway, I stopped you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were headed into another case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go right ahead.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Well, that was one case we got.
		The other one was on the 7th of April.
		I think it was a Tuesday night.
		A commercial airliner was flying from Chicago, O'Hare, down to Dallas.
		They were at 31,000 feet reportedly over Oswego, Kansas.
		And they had, allegedly, according to the FAA who took the report, an object go right in front of them from right to left at their altitude or a little bit above them, 31,000 feet again.
		And we got in contact with the airline with flight operations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		And they confirmed that the event had occurred, but the flight crew had declined any interest in submitting any.
		We don't want to report one of those things.
		Exactly.
		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		We are in the process of assembling all of our data from the month of April.
		We're going to post it soon.
		Also, we're going to have our monthly meeting up here in the state of Washington this coming Saturday, the 9th of May.
		And I'm going to be presenting a lot of these data and a lot more than we can cover in an hour on this program that will give people a better understanding of what was going on all across the country during last month.
		It was truly dramatic.
		Yeah, I knew April was going to be a big month, and it did not disappoint.
		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Peter, my audience should know, if they don't, that you are a volunteer organization and they can make donations to you, right?
unidentified		That is correct.
		And I wish they would because you do good work.
		We are indebted to those many, many people who have sent small checks to us that have made a big difference.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, a buck or two, five bucks, whatever you can afford, folks, to Peter Davenport or to, I guess, they'd make it out, what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To the UFO Report?
unidentified		National UFO Reporting Center.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		National UFO Reporting Center.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the address is?
unidentified		Is P.O. Box 45623 University Station, Seattle, Washington.
		And the zip code is 98145.
		And we're terribly indebted to those people who support us.
		We're sending out packets to those people who've contributed a little something to us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's the zip code again, please?
unidentified		98145.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I've learned this.
		If everybody has a piece of paper and a pencil, it's the National UFO Reporting Center.
		Stop me if I'm wrong.
unidentified		P.O. Box 45623 University Station.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Seattle, Washington, 98145.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct?
unidentified		Okay, good.
unidentified		Your work deserves supporting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you can't do this kind of work on nothing, folks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So this is one time I'd recommend you help them out.
unidentified		One more cut I'd like to play if we could.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fire away.
unidentified		This is a particularly interesting one.
		This comes from Easter Sunday.
		That makes it, I guess, the 12th of April, if I'm not mistaken.
		A gentleman in Whiteville, North Carolina was outside framing a house.
		He's a carpenter.
		And he put his tape measure up against a wall, and his eye was captured by something moving in the sky.
		And I'm just going to let him describe in his own words what he saw.
		This is a daytime sighting.
		And then after that, I'll describe the tape that is on its way to us that places a disc in proximity to the Blue Angels last July, June 8th, 1997, on the outskirts of Philadelphia.

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