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June 12, 1998 - Art Bell

02:34:10

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Al Bielek - The Philadelphia Experiment

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	For example, the committee chairman, Senator Robert Bennett, conducted his own private
	survey of 10 power plants across the U.S.
	And Bennett found out that 8 out of 10—I repeat, 8 out of 10—had not even begun to assess the problem, much less tried to fix it So, will the lights go out and spoil the celebration?
	As 2000 is rung in, there is, I'm sorry to say, quite a possibility.
	Now, a lot of people might have thought of Gary North as very alarmist, but from what I can see, everybody in Washington who knows about this, or who has bothered to investigate, Seems to feel exactly the same way.
	Interesting, huh?
	And this email, dear Art.
	The NBC Morning News had a report today, forget this, featured Al Gore at the World's Oceanographic Conference.
	They are alarmed at the status of our oceans.
	Now listen to this.
	The report also stated that we are now Check this out.
	Declassifying top secret information as to the condition of the seas.
	What?
	Now, you can't just let that one fly by you.
	We are now declassifying top secret information as to the condition of the seas.
	Overfishing has depleted the world's food supply by about a third.
	Scores of marine life are dying due to the effects of pollution.
	And all of this heard over and over again on this program, of course.
	But now, now they are just beginning to say it officially.
	Can you believe that?
	The condition of the oceans was a matter of a top secret classification.
	What the hell?
	I mean, what the hell?
	The condition of our own oceans is a matter of top-secret classification?
	They're all out of their minds back there.
	Totally, completely, um, out of their boards as far as I'm concerned.
	All right, we're gonna have open air.
	Hello.
	No, you're not.
	Now you're on the air.
	Hi.
	That would be me.
	Yeah, this is Scott.
	I'm calling from Denver.
	Yes, sir.
	H-O-W-6-O-3.
	Yeah, that's right.
	Yeah, we're talking about the Y2K deal.
	Yes.
	And I went up and I looked for Gary North's web page.
	I also came up with another one, which is www.y2... I would rather not give it on the air.
	Okay.
	But look, after you've done the reading, And you've seen the documentation.
	I think you can no longer doubt.
	And yesterday's hearings, I think, underscore the fact that Gary was right.
	We're not even close to ready.
	And even if we went to work right now, we couldn't do it.
	So that means that it's going to be an interesting New Year.
	Well, you know, another thing, Clinton just signed another executive order.
	And what it does is wipes out all I don't know that he can do that.
	He just signed it.
	He signed it while he was in England.
	No, you see, we've got the 10th Amendment.
	You know, states' rights and the 10th Amendment.
	Constitution.
	Well, that's one of the things he just signed.
	No, you can't modify the Constitution, the presidential signature, my friend.
	You didn't know that?
	Takes a lot to modify the computer.
	I know, I just got this email today and I think I sent it your way.
	And another thing, Gary North is talking about have a lot of cash on hand.
	Yeah?
	Now after all this goes down, I would imagine the computers will go down, wouldn't that also kill our monetary system?
	That's his point, sir.
	Yes, exactly.
	In other words, what good is it going to do you to write a check?
	But exactly, oh no no no, there will continue to be exchange made.
	With money.
	But the rare thing is going to be money.
	I mean, the bank might not be there to give you your money.
	Right.
	That doesn't mean money can't be used.
	It means that, uh, uh, electronic money can't be used.
	So, Gary Norris said, what you should have is cash.
	Right.
	Yeah, because immediately after that, like, started getting prepared.
	You know, I mean, eventually things will limp back.
	I, I, I don't think it's going to be Armageddon for the entire human race.
	That may come sooner.
	Making Y2K academic.
	That's one way to think about it.
	The other is that you have to imagine that we could make it to that moment, and if we do, you're going to, in some way, want to be prepared.
	You know, look, if you look at the congressional testimony yesterday, you've got to imagine that, as Gary Norris said, the power grid Could easily fail, because it is, of course, all interconnected.
	A few things you ought to do to get ready, you know.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	About a half hour, we're going to have Al Belick here.
	And Al Belick is a survivor of the Philadelphia Experiment.
	It's a show you're not going to want to miss.
	Well I think it's time to get ready To realize what I have found
	I have been on the path of what I am Oh, take me down
	Come on, it's not far Uh, here ladies and gentlemen, uh, is a man named Al Belick.
	He's 71 years old.
	He is a survivor of the Philadelphia Experiment.
	Actually, he was part of the experiment itself, so he is uniquely in history qualified to comment on what this thing really was all about.
	From Atlanta, Georgia, here's Al Belick.
	Al, welcome to the program.
	Thank you.
	I'm glad I finally got through to you.
	I was sitting here waiting, and as you say, there was a mix-up on the phone number.
	Gee, you got me.
	And I had to get the right number from somebody in Montreal.
	I know.
	He called me and said, hey, you're supposed to be on our fellow show.
	I said, yeah, I know.
	I'm waiting here for the call.
	There hasn't been one.
	All right.
	Well, anyway, thank goodness, here you are.
	You are in the middle of doing some kind of conference or something there, aren't you?
	Yes, that's the preparedness show.
	Uh, put on by Dan Trudegut of Salt Lake City.
	It's here this weekend at Friday, Saturday, and Sunday at the Cobb Galleria in Atlanta on the north side.
	And, uh... When are you speaking?
	I did already yesterday, Friday, and I will again today, Saturday, at 8 p.m.
	At 8 o'clock at night.
	Uh, our local time, of course, which is Eastern Daylight.
	For people in, uh, Atlanta, they can come see you.
	All right, um...
	Al, it's been a long time since we did an interview.
	I don't know how long.
	It seems like a couple of years.
	Over a year at least.
	I guess we better go back to the beginning when all of this began.
	A lot of people, you know, my audience is probably twice the size it was last time you and I talked, so a lot of the audience has never heard a word from you.
	Now, when and how Did you get involved in what became the Philadelphia Experiment?
	I mean, if you go back to the first moment when somebody said something to you about it, or when you knew about it, when was that?
	Well, when I knew what I was being involved in, along with my brother Duncan, was after we were on the project.
	We both finished our schooling.
	We both had PhDs in physics.
	I'm from Harvard, and he from University of Edinburgh, Scotland.
	We enlisted in the Navy in September of 1939.
	Went through a 90-day wonder school.
	Didn't know what we were to be assigned to, but this 90-day wonder school is for those who are selected for special programs.
	We were given commissions as we joined the Navy.
	You became a lieutenant?
	Yes, and then, of course, After Christmas, we were assigned to the Institute of Advanced Study at Princeton, New Jersey.
	By the way, do you know that I was in the Air Force, and second lieutenants were sort of like the bottom of the barrel.
	That's true.
	Ones who had come through these 90-day school hours.
	I mean, any enlisted man of any period at all in the service, there was no greater fear than somebody like you, who just came out of 90 days and all of a sudden has all this power.
	Yes, there are many stories told about the 90 Day Wonders.
	That's not quite true, too.
	So, anyway, you did get through it.
	You became a lieutenant, and they assigned you to do what?
	Well, all they told us was we were being assigned to the Institute of Advanced Study at Princeton, New Jersey, and we had no idea what it was about.
	Well, Father apparently had arranged this because he had And then his connections in the intelligence service, even though he had left the Navy himself in 1929.
	That was your father?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	The audience should know that there is, in the military, a kind of an old-world, old-buddy system of people who are active and who have retired, and there's still plenty of pull from those who have retired regarding their sons and stuff like that.
	That still goes on today.
	Very much so.
	Anyway, he apparently had arranged it, and when we arrived at the Institute of Princeton, fresh out of school with PhDs, we thought we knew everything about everything, and we quickly found out we didn't really know much about anything when they confronted us with things like five-dimensional realities and possibilities of time travel, time manipulation, and all this sort of thing.
	We were somewhat overwhelmed, but fortunately we had a very good teacher, Dr. John von Neumann, who, of course, had been at the University of Princeton and is also part of the Institute since 1933.
	He took us aside and gave us some special instructions that tell us what it was all about and what we had been assigned to or had inherited, however you want to look at it.
	So you were on some sort of special project?
	Oh, we were very much on a special project.
	Who was Dr. von Neumann?
	Dr. John von Neumann A Ph.D.
	in Mathematics.
	Actually, he was born in Hungary, and he went through his schooling in Europe.
	Got a Ph.D.
	in Mathematics in 1926.
	Worked the German university system until 1930, when he came to the United States.
	And 1930 was an interesting year, because quite a number of people left Germany and Europe in that period of time.
	That's right.
	One of them, of course, was Albert Einstein.
	Some of the stories say he didn't leave Germany until 1933.
	It's not true.
	He left in 1930, went to Caltech, taught there for three years, and then he was offered a position at the Institute of Advanced Study, which he accepted.
	And, of course, they opened their door for business, so to speak.
	So then Einstein was also there.
	Yes, he was.
	As well as two other founding members, I suppose you could call them.
	There's a Dr. Alexander and a Dr. Oswald Babelin.
	Those four people were the original staff, and of course it grew from 1933 onward.
	Many other projects were undertaken.
	That was not the only project underway there.
	Now, set the world political stage for us at this time.
	This was 1943, and I think that power ships were going down one after the other, weren't they?
	That's true.
	They were being sunk and sunk and sunk.
	80% of our shipping was being sunk when we crossed the Atlantic.
	People should try to imagine that.
	Half of all the shipping that we sent didn't make it.
	Torpedoes, generally, right?
	No.
	Well, that's what happens.
	In other words, what I'm trying to do is set up here the reason for the Navy to want To work on invisibility.
	Yes.
	Or any sort of stealth capability.
	Radar or visible or whatever.
	Anything that would help our ships get from here to there.
	That's true.
	In 1940, when they started this project, it was actually started in 33 and it was just a feasibility study which became a hardware study and eventually a successful test.
	I was engaged in September 1940 at the Brooklyn Navy Yard with a very small ship.
	It was a tender.
	I was there as an observer.
	And, of course, this was Tesla's system, and it worked very well.
	It produced optical invisibility, camera invisibility.
	Of course, in 1940, they weren't that concerned about radar.
	It was still an experimental thing, and only had been in the Navy since 38 on certain experimental ships.
	I should say, ships with experimental systems called radar.
	On 41, the British developed the Magnetron.
	This was snuck over to the United States and was put in production at Western Electric, and this became the backbone of an entirely new radar system.
	We caused an increase in frequency from 500 kilohertz to 9.5 gigahertz, literally overnight.
	Slow up for a second, Al.
	You said they did one first experiment.
	Were you part of that?
	I was part of it in the sense that we were working On the hardware, and we're still at the point in 1940 of undertaking an understanding of what was going on, and we were more of observers in 1940, a test in September, than anything else.
	Observers, alright, but I would like to know what it was that you were watching the scientists work, you were watching the electronics being put together, what exactly were you doing then?
	Exactly what we were doing was twofold.
	One was we were to be observers for the Navy, write monthly reports on the progress of the system.
	They wanted people, not as Duncan and myself, who were trained in physics, knew it in terms of standard physics, inside out, upside down, and could write intelligent reports to the higher level brass in the Navy, critiquing what was going on.
	All right, the object of the mission Military always has a mission.
	The object of the mission was to make that experimental ship optically invisible?
	That's correct.
	1940, they were not concerned about radar, they were concerned about reducing optical invisibility.
	Right, and they were using Tesla technology specifically to achieve this.
	Now, here's where I would like to understand, what exactly was it?
	If you were to describe the equipment involved, To achieve this in that first experiment, what would I have seen?
	What would you see in the way of hardware?
	Yeah, that's right.
	I would see a special antenna mounted on the highest point on the ship, which produced what we call an E-field, electric field.
	It produced a rotating electric field.
	It was fed with a four-phase system.
	When you say electric, do you mean, you said antenna.
	E-field.
	Do you mean like RF energy?
	Yes, it was RF energy.
	That's standard output from any transmitter.
	But they were primarily concerned with that RF field of the electric component.
	There are two components to a radiated radio system or a radio energy.
	That is the electric field and the magnetic field at right angles to each other.
	That's right, yes.
	The electric field is the principal component.
	They were concerned with their Because that established part of the field system, which was required.
	The other part was a rotating magnetic field.
	The electric field was inside the magnetic field.
	It rotated at different speeds, one twice the other.
	And the rotating field had a specific frequency with specific modulations, which were really
	Tesla's design, because this was an analog system running all the time with special modulation.
	Yeah, it would have been analog at that time.
	All right, that's very interesting.
	Now, what frequency was it on?
	I'm sorry?
	Do you recall what frequency it was on?
	Basically, the original design of the Tesla system was essentially the same as what they
	kept throughout, it was operating on an RF carrier frequency of about 160 megahertz.
	Some people may say, oh, we couldn't produce that at the time.
	That's not true.
	All these radar systems are running at 400 and 500 MHz.
	No, that's absolutely correct.
	So 160 MHz of rotating RF and electrical energy.
	And was it... Let me ask you this.
	If you're thinking about a rotating antenna... Well, the antenna was not physically rotating.
	Oh!
	Oh, there's a fourth fixed antenna, what we call a quadraphase antenna, which means it has four elements.
	Isolated from each other, fed by four separate transmitters.
	Oh!
	And they were electrically rotated by means of the phasing of the signals being fed in from the preceding electronics feeding the final stages of the four transmitters.
	Oh, now I've got you!
	I've got you!
	Now, that's new.
	I don't remember that from the other interview.
	So, now I understand.
	There was no physical rotation going on.
	There were four radiating elements.
	That's correct.
	By electrically phasing the signals In terms of the increase and decrease of the actual modulation phasing, you could produce a rotating field.
	Now that's my next question, and if I get too technical for you, let me know.
	The audience will have to bear with me.
	You mentioned modulation now.
	You have a carrier frequency, which was 116 MHz.
	Carrier frequency is just, you know, like if I stopped talking right now, folks, and there was dead air.
	Yeah.
	That's a carrier frequency.
	When I'm speaking and when you hear my voice, that's called modulation.
	Correct.
	Now, you said this was modulated.
	In what way do you know, and with what type of modulation?
	It was amplitude modulation, and there were four different modulating frequencies, that much I remember the exact nature of those four independent modulating frequencies.
	I no longer recall Okay, but do you know offhand if each one of these elements had a different modulating frequency, or if the modulating frequency was alternating within each one of those elements?
	It was alternating within each one of those elements.
	Oh, that begins to get pretty damn complex.
	Oh, yes.
	It was a complex system, even though the early tests on the earlier system was considerably lower power.
	They didn't need high power for a small ship.
	It was at lower power, and they didn't get into the 1 and 2 megawatt Alright, that would be one element of it, but even so, we've got this weird RF frequency with AM modulation alternating on these four elements, and then what else was on the ship to achieve this?
	Well, they had a system for generating a rotating magnetic field.
	A rotating magnetic field.
	That you have to pump current through a coil.
	Yep.
	And the coils basically were mounted on the deck of the ship.
	In the later system, there were four of them.
	I'm not sure if they use four now in the earlier system, but basically they would have to use something equivalent to a four-coil system in order, again, by phasing of the current coming out of the alternators, Electromagnetic arrays or electromagnets require, if you want to create a big field, it takes a whole lot of current.
	a field which is rotating counterclockwise.
	Alright, now, electromagnetic arrays or electromagnets require,
	if you want to create a big field, it takes a whole lot of current.
	It does. It takes a lot of current.
	So, there were four of these, and did you say they were alternating or rotating?
	Were these physically rotating?
	No.
	Again, it was electrically rotating due to the phasing of the current embedded in all coils.
	Wow.
	Coils, by the way, were a Tesla special design.
	He loved conical coils.
	And, uh, they were narrower at the top and wider at the base.
	They stood typically a little over six feet high.
	And, uh, They were wound with copper tubing, which was water-cooling, as well as the fact that enough current through the coils got hot.
	Now look, any high school student will do the experiment where they wind insulated wire around a metal bar and apply voltage to it, and of course you have an electromagnet, but what you're talking about was at a far, my God, six feet high, and cooled that way.
	Yeah, they get hot.
	They get hot.
	Even the small ones you experiment with get very, very hot.
	So they would be water-cooled.
	That would make sense as well.
	There was an air-wound coil.
	As a matter of fact, there was no core, except an air core.
	Wow!
	All right.
	I think I'm beginning to get the picture.
	Now that we finally have established communication, just sit tight, Alan.
	We'll be back after the top of the hour, okay?
	Okay.
	All right.
	My guest is Al Belick.
	Now, this is by far the most detailed, specific description of exactly the Tesla technology, and that's what this is, all right?
	Tesla technology, and rather complicated Tesla technology at that.
	This would be incredibly complex when you consider the two rotating fields, one of RF Electricity and the other of electromagnetic force.
	Wow.
	Anyway, stay tuned.
	On to Al Belick, and Al Belick is a survivor of the Philadelphia Experiment.
	And by the way, they made a movie about the Philadelphia Experiment called The Philadelphia Experiment, which was a damn good movie, I thought.
	And, uh, presently on the movie channels, they're showing The Philadelphia Experiment 2, Which, frankly, I thought sucked.
	How about you, Al?
	What do you think of it?
	I've seen Philadelphia Experiment 2, and while it is, in a sense, a story takeoff from the tail end of Philadelphia Experiment, the original movie, it has no bearing whatever on the Philadelphia Experiment.
	The only thing I saw good about it was that They showed an alternative reality of what could have happened to us if the Nazis had won World War II.
	Yeah, that was an intriguing storyline, but in terms of truth... It didn't happen that way, and we had no connection.
	Yeah.
	Alright, so here we are in the Philadelphia Naval Yard in 1943, correct?
	Yes.
	And the Eldridge is big.
	How many tons?
	About 1,600, but they added about 200 tons of hardware to it for the test.
	1,600 tons?
	And 200 tons of hardware?
	Yes.
	Holy mackerel!
	Oh, yeah.
	They had the diesel-electric generator system.
	They had 275 kVA alternators built by, if I recall correctly, Westinghouse.
	They were very, very heavy because they wanted a mass and rigidity.
	They wanted a rotating mass for various reasons, namely Rotating physical mass can be converted into power on the post mode.
	Now you say Westinghouse built what?
	They built the alternators.
	The alternators.
	That would be another way to track this, wouldn't it?
	It probably could.
	Just a thought.
	Now, again though, the basic setup was pretty much the same.
	I mean, you described that first ship experiment that worked to us pretty well.
	Yeah, except this was more power for a larger ship.
	More power for a larger ship.
	Had Van Norman modified any of the equipment?
	Yes.
	And he thought it would be biologically a safe thing to do?
	He was not concerned about the biological aspects at first.
	He was only concerned about the most efficient way to achieve the results, and he decided to drop the analog approach and go to a digital or pulsed approach.
	Pulsed?
	Power into the coils, for example, as well as into the antenna system was pulled to about a 10% duty cycle pulse.
	Oh my god!
	That would increase the power exponentially.
	It would increase the power enormously.
	What they were able to do, they increased the power of the OREC final stage boosters from their original Half a megawatt output continuous rating to about a two megawatt
	continuous rating.
	Wow.
	And then they could pulse this at 10% duty cycle.
	That says theoretically if the equipment would take it, they could get 20 megawatt peak pulse
	power out of it.
	Wow.
	They didn't go that high.
	They kept it well within the design limits.
	They were running about 8 MW peak pulse power in the RF system.
	That's still a lot of RF out there.
	A lot of RF, you better believe it.
	And this was still, was this still at about 160 MHz?
	Yes.
	Alright.
	Was it still modulated, was it pulse, was there AM modulation?
	It would be difficult to call it AM modulation because it was a pulse system, but there was modulation waveforms on the pulse.
	Okay.
	was a complex system that produced a series of waveforms which caused even more problems
	because of a simple, well I'll say simple by comparison, of an analog system where you
	had known frequencies of modulation and they are continuous.
	The effects on the physiology and the nervous system are not nearly as disastrous as a
	pulse system. A pulse system is a sudden shot of energy if you will and then after it shuts off you
	have this Fourier series of diminishing waves which can be even more complex in
	terms of frequencies than the original system. Alright, this was still being radiated from an
	antenna located at the top of the ship. Correct. Alright, now on the Eldridge you had the
	electromagnetic conical coils as well, 6 feet high same coils or what?
	They were basically the same coils, except they were slightly larger.
	They were about seven foot high.
	And because of the fact they were pulsing it instead of a continuous analog system, they had to do something else.
	Those coils would ring like crazy.
	They had to put a damping coil on the top of it in order to damp out some of the ringing problem they had with those coils.
	Oh my God, the amount of energy!
	Oh yeah, there is tons of energy.
	How is it?
	That's an incorrect term, but you had two 75 kVA alternators feeding the four coils with two outputs from each alternator, and the problem there was when you're pulsing it, you are driving the output power beyond the, shall we say, the analog normal rated limit.
	Way beyond.
	Now what you're doing in this case is you're converting rotating mass into electrical energy.
	Now this is a well-known system.
	It's been used years since.
	I've worked on a sonar system where a particular company's approach, they were literally pulsing
	the energy out of generators and because of the rotating mass, you get power output far
	beyond the normal electrical rating.
	Sure.
	All right.
	Now that's a valid approach.
	Oh, I understand.
	My question, I think, is if Kessler quit and literally went to the trouble to sabotage
	and the danger to sabotage an experiment because of the biological implications.
	Yeah.
	How did Van Neumann imagine there wouldn't be very severe biological implications of, you know, using these... Well, I can tell you that because we had a number of conversations with him.
	He did not want to hear about Tesla's fears of the biological side effects.
	He quite literally ignored it.
	And Tesla, when hearing this, became quite upset that he was out of the project.
	He was still doing other things on his own with his own laboratory.
	And the story I've heard many, many years later, in fact, within the last, I'll put it in this frame, in the last five years, someone who had access to the files told me, he says, Tesla did not die a natural death in his room.
	He said he was the victim of an accident which was set up for him.
	The story goes that This one morning, uh, literally is, I believe, the 7th of January, 1943.
	He left the New Yorker where he was living, drove somewheres across the street, walking.
	He waited for a green light, of course, at the street corner.
	He got a green light, he started to cross the street, in front of some parked, uh, stopped traffic, including a taxi cab.
	Secret Service or other related personnel held back the other pedestrians while Tesla walked out in the street.
	And then there's some kind of a clue or type of conditioning, whatever it was, the taxi driver slammed a foot down on the power and plowed right into Tesla and knocked him over the back of the taxi cab and he came crashing down on the pavement in the back of the cab.
	My God.
	And he kept speeding away.
	My God.
	So you're saying here that Tesla was murdered and he was murdered probably because he was continuing to complain or interfere or in some way try to stop Beyond going to go public on what the Fudge was going and doing and the fact that the government had, as he put it, no concern for the lives of the sailors.
	All right, back now to the naval yard and the experiments.
	What day was this experiment finally conducted on?
	The first test was May 22, July 1943.
	I was downriver, several miles from the yard itself.
	Alright, um, how many... We've got the Eldridge, and how many people, souls, on board the Eldridge?
	As I remember, there are about 30.
	30?
	The normal ship's complement is 150.
	What they normally needed was a skeleton crew to take it down the river, set it on station, and of course Duncan and I were assigned the task of turning the equipment on in the right sequence.
	Where were you?
	We were, excuse me, we were in a control room before all of this equipment, which is essentially midship, a little bit, shall we say, further towards the bow than in the rear, but it was essentially midships where the control room was behind steel doors, bulkhead doors were closed when we were operating the equipment, and by radio command, and we had a radio receiver in the room, Uh, we would turn on the equipment on command and it had to go through a certain sequence, read certain meters, et cetera, et cetera.
	And when it was up to, uh, operating power, of course, we sat there until we had a corrective command, shut down.
	Do you recall, um, in what sequence you brought the equipment up?
	At this point, not exactly.
	The all record portion of the system was basically brought up first.
	That was easiest to bring up.
	Then we brought up the control systems for the alternators because that was a little slower and more complex.
	The field coils for the alternators were driven by vacuum tubes.
	3,000 of them.
	3,000?
	3,000 6L6s.
	Oh, I see.
	The old-fashioned big glass variety.
	Oh, listen, the first transmitter I ever had when I was a ham was the vinyl.
	It was driven by a 6AG7, and it was a 6L6 final, and that was about 30 watts output there.
	Yep, I was going to say around 30 watts.
	Well, when you're running 300 per coil, you're able to drive quite a lot of power into those coils, particularly when they're pulsed.
	Did you have any concerns?
	I mean, what were your thoughts?
	Sure, you were behind steel bulkheads.
	But what were your personal thoughts about the possible biological implications of what you were about to do?
	Well, we were quite concerned about it because we knew Tesla well.
	We knew what Tesla was concerned about.
	We apprised that the van Neumann of Tesla's concerns, and van Neumann didn't want to hear about it, at least until about March or April of 43.
	And then he became convinced, oh, well, it might be a problem.
	Then he tried to design a powder field to perhaps prevent the biological aspects.
	He actually put a third generator on board the ship to try and synchronize with the other
	two and it never worked right.
	And they could never synchronize.
	There was apparently no problem synchronizing two, much less three generators.
	Somehow, he must have been convinced.
	He was convinced by us that he better take a look at this and try and stop the problem
	in terms of the very high-powered RF fields produce some kind of a counter field.
	That was his theory.
	But failing that, he went ahead with the test anyway.
	That is correct.
	Which means somebody put pressure on him?
	Oh yes.
	A lot of pressure was put on him by the Navy Department.
	And he went ahead with the first test.
	His first test in terms of the hardware was very successful.
	The ship was physically, or as I should say, optically invisible, radar invisible, because
	by 1943 we had concern about radar.
	The Germans had very good radar systems, and they were attempting to defeat the German radar pickup for ships going across the Atlantic.
	Of course.
	And, you know, it was radar invisible, it was optically invisible, which was determined from a carrier deck.
	Now, this was with 30 personnel on board, or was this with only you in the control?
	I'm sorry?
	In other words, were there sailors on board, on deck, in his first test?
	Yes, there were a number of sailors on deck who were stationed on deck to be observers as to what they saw and felt.
	And they told you to turn this thing on by radio?
	Yes, by radio link.
	So you brought it up, turned it on, and maintained the field for how long?
	Maintained the field for just about 20 minutes.
	20 minutes.
	Then?
	The order came to shut down.
	All right.
	And we shut it down, and then the order is to return the ship to the Navy Yard, the back section.
	Well, then when they, when we've been back there, and of course then they checked out the personnel, both below decks and above decks.
	Below deck personnel were perfectly okay.
	Ones above deck, standing on the deck, were very sick, very ill, very nauseous, obviously had been exposed Too entirely too much RF power and rotating magnetic fields because they were only about 75 feet at the maximum away from the coils of all the antennas.
	Probably horribly disoriented.
	That would be putting it mildly.
	They were very disoriented.
	They were literally very sick physically.
	How many were actually above deck, do you know?
	I remember it was about eight.
	About eight.
	And so what happened to them?
	They went away to the dispensary for... They went away to the hospital and to the...
	The Navy's medical facilities.
	And then, of course, they said to Van Neumann not to worry.
	We have another test crew for you.
	Another test crew, of course.
	At that point, Van Neumann became very worried.
	He had a serious problem.
	Did anybody track what happened to these men prior to the next experiment?
	Did Van Neumann track what happened to these men?
	I don't believe he did, because he didn't have time enough to do it.
	The pressure was on.
	To correct the system, and as the Navy said a few days later, well, we don't really need optical invisibility.
	In fact, we don't even want it at this point because, you see, in 43, they did not have the lower end, the shore end, or the tracking systems, the satellites, and everything we have today.
	Of course.
	They were totally dependent on either radar contact, telling where the position of the ships in a convoy were, or eyeball contact, if you will.
	Consequently, they decided that radar invisibility, they had to have some means of optically seeing ships between each other in a convoy, so at night they didn't ram each other, particularly if they were in a bad storm.
	Sure.
	So, they made one slight concession.
	We don't need optical invisibility.
	Well, it's meant a slight change in the system and a slight reduction of the power and the amount of, shall we say, time-field rotation that was involved.
	All right.
	There were earlier experiments, I guess, that said to you, you could achieve radar invisibility before you could achieve optical invisibility.
	Was it a matter only of power, or was it a matter of, in other words, what drove the system from radar invisibility to optical invisibility?
	How much difference in power was there?
	It was not so much a difference in power as it was a difference in the matter of the rotation of the artificial time field and holding it at a particular point.
	If you go into the theory as I knew it, you are dealing with a number of alternate realities and you can quite literally rotate out of this one into the next one by rotating yourself 90 degrees in terms of the time field.
	You just drop into the next reality.
	But you don't want to do this under normal circumstances, because what you want is just the aerato or optical invisibility, which means you've got a fine point of wave.
	You hold this.
	You're producing a phase shift in the time field locally.
	Well, that makes sense.
	I mean, you want your ship to get to Europe.
	You don't want it to go to another dimension.
	Correct.
	You want it to stay here, to put it in close terms, but just not be visible.
	That's right.
	The first test was on the Eldridge, 22 July of 43.
	Right.
	That was considered at least a qualified success.
	Yes, it was considered successful in terms of the hardware and the hardware goals.
	It was a qualified success because they had personnel problems.
	On the 12 August test, after we got the notice, Neumann got the notice, and of course it went up and down the whole gamut of the personnel involved.
	He said, quite literally, you have a drop-dead date.
	You'll finish these tests by the 12th of August or just forget the whole project.
	And, of course, von Neumann became very worried.
	He went to the Navy.
	He'd already done this, and they asked for an extension on time, and they refused to give him any more time.
	And I became very concerned about this and went up to the director of the Office of Naval
	Engineering, Dr. Rizek, Captain Hal Bowen, Sr.
	I said, What is this all about?
	He said, Well, this command came from further up the line.
	I said, Where did it come from?
	He said, It's from the CNO himself, Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral King.
	I said, What's he getting involved in this for?
	He's not supposed to be concerned specifically about engineering tests.
	And well, we had no answer at that time as to why he chose or why he was given the orders
	for a drop dead date of the 12th of August.
	All right.
	Well, we're going to... We're engaged to find the answer to that one.
	All right, but we've got it, right?
	We're going to drop dead right now for about 10 minutes, so relax, get a cup of coffee, because when we come back, we're going to talk about what the world knows as the Philadelphia Experiment, the test conducted 12 August.
	1943.
	I'm Art Bell.
	My guest is Al Felix, a survivor of the Philadelphia Experiment.
	Believe me, you don't want to go away.
	Well, I've made it past to get ready To realize what I have found
	I have been on the path of what I am All right, I want to remind everybody that of course, as we
	always do when we have a guest, if you want to read more about this, know more about the
	Philadelphia Experiment, you will find the following links on my website.
	Thank you.
	The Montauk Project.
	Experiments in Time.
	Montauk Revisited.
	Adventures in Synchronicity.
	The Pyramids of Montauk.
	Explorations in Consciousness.
	And a video of the Philadelphia Experiment Part 2.
	All of that's on my website now at www.artbell.com.
	Now, we're about to launch into the experiment itself, the major one, that occurred 12 August of 1943.
	But just before we do it, and Al, I don't want you to take time to try to answer this right now.
	I just want to read it.
	Dear Art, you have twice now reported tonight's guest's age as 71 years.
	That would mean he was born in 1927.
	World War II began in 1939 in Europe and December of 1941 in the Pacific, which would make Al 12 and 14 years old, respectively.
	Now, a number of people have faxed that to me, and there is an answer to this, and they just need to keep their pants on out there.
	Uh, T. Herrick, is that fair to say, Al?
	Yeah, there is an answer to that.
	Uh, of course.
	Yeah, don't give it right now.
	I want to stay on track here.
	All right.
	The, um, the big test, the Eldridge, uh, here you went out to sea with how many sailors, uh, all together?
	Well, on the, uh, second test, the big one, we didn't really go to sea.
	We were still in the harbor.
	All right, you were in the harbor.
	The total personnel of about 30 on board, there was something like 20 sailors and 10 officers, including Duncan and myself.
	All right.
	You and Duncan were, again, in the same place as you had been previously.
	That is correct.
	In the control room.
	That's right.
	How many on deck would you say?
	About 18?
	It was, again, about 18.
	Oh, only eight on deck.
	Right.
	And the rest of them in various positions?
	Positions below deck to do the scallop and crew number to run the ship.
	Okay.
	Again, did you get your orders to begin by radio or what?
	Yes, we were given orders by radio to when to proceed and of course follow the standard format as we had done before.
	So, here we go.
	This time with pulse signals, tremendous levels of RF and electromagnetic energy pulsing around, and you cranked it all up.
	Just describe what you did right on through this, if you would.
	Well, we turned all the equipment on.
	Everything appeared to be functioning normally to us for about the first 30 seconds.
	As it had in previous tests.
	I'm sorry?
	As it had in previous tests.
	Yes, as it had in previous tests, correct.
	And to the observer ships, there were now three of them, an aircraft carrier with Captain Harrison, who was in charge of the tests on board, with Dr. John von Neumann and others, who was a Coast Guard cutter, and there was also a merchant ship, the SS Furius F, and they were all observing this because the merchant mariners were concerned they were getting the brunt of the effect of the German U-boats, and There was already a lot of spare systems built.
	If the final test was successful, we were going to start equipping ships with this equipment immediately.
	Right.
	So, we turned everything on, and as I said, everything appeared to be normal to the observers.
	On these three ships, for about 70 seconds, they had radar invisibility.
	They could still see the ship through a greenish haze, sort of a fog, but it was visible.
	And everybody thought, well, it looks like everything is working the way it's supposed to.
	We've got it!
	Then, there was a blinding blue flash of light, and the ship disappeared.
	And the water line, which showed approximately where the ship was, also disappeared, so there's just normal water there in the bay.
	I should say in the section of the Delaware River where we ran the test.
	It must have been to those observing a horror.
	I mean, they were used to, at least by then, seeing the indent in the water that was taken by this field along with the ship.
	But this time, this time, it wasn't there.
	That's right.
	It wasn't there.
	They knew it wasn't there.
	And of course, they could raise no one by radio.
	I can well imagine how von Neumann felt.
	He was probably tearing his hair out, what was left of it.
	Maybe that's one of the reasons he had none 40 years later.
	But in any case, there was nothing they could do.
	I mean, all they could do was sit there and watch and wait and hope.
	Yep.
	From their perspective, that was it.
	You were gone.
	Now tell me, at that moment, you said a blinding blue flash, obviously reported by observers, What about you?
	You were in the control room.
	Well, Duncan and I in the control room noticed after approximately 30 seconds or so that things weren't right, and we were getting strange wavering effects on the light level of the 606s, and they were getting brighter and they were getting dimmer, and this never had happened before in any of the tests, and then we started to get what appeared to be high voltage arc over In the control room from various equipments, and there was no high-voltage equipment in that control room.
	Brighter and dimmer, right?
	The 6L6 had a filament, a 6-volt filament.
	A very bright one.
	That's right.
	So, they're getting brighter and dimmer would indicate the filament voltage was changing, at least that's the first thing I would lead to, I guess, an assumption.
	And we didn't see any indication of change at the level of the plate current.
	Uh, at first, we didn't see anything other than that visual effect.
	Then we had what appeared to be high-voltage arc over with no high-voltage equipment.
	And, of course, we tried at this point to raise somebody on the radio.
	The radio had nothing but static on it.
	And at this point, I said, well, we're on our own.
	What do we do now?
	And where are we?
	And where are we?
	We didn't think about where are we at first.
	Did you have any communication at this point with the other sailors on the ship or any of the officers?
	No.
	We were inside the control room and the door was closed, locked from the inside.
	And your instructions, I presume, were to remain there.
	Correct.
	Unless something went wrong and we had to use our own judgment.
	Well, our judgment said that something wrong shut the equipment off.
	Okay.
	So we went to shut it off, like turning off the main power controls for the main AC power, operating everything.
	Couldn't shut it off.
	The switches were frozen totally.
	They were locked and immovable.
	So everything's getting worse in the control room.
	We decided, well, there's nothing we can do.
	Let's get out of here.
	So we opened the bulkhead door, went out on deck, and we saw sailors milling around in a very strange and disoriented manner.
	But we didn't see anyone buried in the deck or the bulkheads at that point.
	Right.
	So we decided, sort of intuitively, both of us, let's get out of here, we'll jump overboard and swim ashore.
	I might add, at this point, everything on board the ship was rather clear.
	I wouldn't say crystal clear, there was some haze in the atmosphere, but you could see the ship, you could see the railing, but you could see nothing whatever beyond the railing.
	I do.
	So there was no way in hell to shut it off?
	That's right.
	You said the switches were actually frozen?
	They appeared and sensed to us that they were frozen.
	We couldn't move them.
	So here you wander out, there's a haze, there's sailors just sort of stumbling around incoherently.
	What about the biological effects on you moving out into the middle of this field?
	Or was it something... The biological effect takes a while to build up.
	We've been behind steel.
	We were shielded from it.
	For how long?
	Well, it takes several minutes for the effect to build up to the point where the person realizes there's something wrong.
	Okay, so the two of you then saw this going on and said, the hell with this.
	Let's go overboard.
	Right, exactly.
	We jumped overboard.
	Both of us.
	And?
	Nothing to hit the water and swim ashore.
	Right.
	But we never hit the water.
	What happened?
	It started falling.
	We felt The sensation was very much like you were falling down an elevator shaft that had no bottom.
	Oh.
	Yeah, a rather sickening feeling.
	Oh, I wouldn't like that at all.
	And we kept falling, and we kept falling.
	Could you see anything?
	We couldn't talk with each other.
	Could you see anything?
	We could not see anything.
	Could you see each other?
	We could see each other, and that was about it.
	We were very close together, but not physically in contact.
	Otherwise, you're in virtual blackness and falling.
	Right.
	My God, I'd have a heart attack and probably die right there.
	Well, we didn't have a heart attack and die right there, but we didn't know what was coming off next.
	And then it seemed like everything faded out.
	It was sort of bright and illuminated like it was daylight, but it was nothing you could see.
	Then we were standing.
	We then realized we were standing on what appeared to be dry ground.
	At night, there's some kind of a chain-link fence in back of us, which looked like a military design, and before we could really take cognizance of our surroundings, there was suddenly a blinding searchlight coming down on us from something overhead.
	Something, of course, was a helicopter.
	In 1943, helicopters were almost unknown.
	There were, of course, Sikorsky experimental coppers and choppers, but they were not a mainstay in the military.
	So here we get the footlight on us, and we're in one of those places.
	This is what's going through our head.
	The next thing we see is a bunch of M.P.' 's running towards us from somewheres.
	M.P.' 's we recognized, of course, and they grabbed us by the arms and took us to a building.
	We went upside the building.
	There's an elevator.
	On the elevator, we dropped down several levels.
	How far, we didn't know.
	The door opens, and we're in an underground facility.
	We see military personnel, some strange equipment, and an elderly civilian walking towards us.
	An elderly civilian?
	Correct.
	And he then introduces himself.
	He says, General, I've been waiting for you.
	I'm Dr. John von Neumann.
	So we look at this man, who is virtually devoid of hair, except for some sideburns that were white and some little bushy eyebrows, and said, You're who?
	I said, I'm Dr. von Neumann.
	He said, You can't be.
	You left him about an hour ago.
	He's a much younger man.
	And he looked at us sternly and says, I am the same duck that von Neumann, you knew in
	1943.
	This is 1983 and you're at Montauk, Long Island.
	We thought the guy was nuts.
	And— Clendenin—Of course.
	Rodeffer—We just did not believe him.
	We were then given the Cook's tour by von Neumann of the underground facility and we
	were, shall we say, introduced to modern IBM computers, modern for that day, IBM 360s and
	370s with the hard disk drives, the tape drives, the display systems, the large screen graphic
	display systems, all the communications equipment, none of which we recognized at all.
	And after we got the cook store, the mace, they finally sat us down in front of large screen color TV, which of course didn't exist in 43.
	And we saw it watching TV.
	We had the bookstore for about two hours and had some discussion with Von Neumann, whether he sat us down in front of the TV.
	I guess he had other things he had to do.
	So we watched some of the programs and we see shots of modern three-way systems with traffic jams and cars we don't recognize and city outlines we don't recognize.
	And what got to us finally were the commercials, particularly one, which was a commercial for an airline.
	On your next vacation trip to Hawaii, why not fly with us in a 747 jet and show a picture of a 747 in flight?
	Well, he says, what the hell is this?
	Sure.
	Maybe the old man's right.
	So then, yeah, obviously by then you're beginning to catch on, I guess.
	We're beginning to catch on.
	There was something drastically wrong.
	Now, back to him.
	We talk with him some more.
	Then he puts it on.
	He says, we've got a very serious problem here.
	I said, okay, what?
	He says, you came from the Eldridge here.
	We don't really know how you got here.
	Uh, but said the Eldridge is no longer in the harbor, said it's in hyperspace.
	And I said, it's creating this artificial bubble called hyperspace and automation will understand what I'm talking about.
	And, uh, it's growing and we don't know how big it will grow.
	And he says, we got to shut that equipment off.
	And he says, we can't do it from here.
	He says, we can shut our system down.
	So it's apparent to us that the two systems locked up.
	and pull the Eldridge out into hyperspace and this bubble is growing and we don't know
	how big it'll get or how long this system may run before it breaks down.
	He says, you've got to go back there and shut off the equipment.
	I said, well that's great.
	We don't know how we got here and how are we going to get back there.
	Of course.
	And then he sprung it on us.
	He says, well gentlemen, here at Montauk we have solved these problems.
	We can send you anywhere as we want, literally in this galaxy at any time we want.
	He says, we can send you back to the X for the Eldridge and we will send you back and
	you will get back there.
	You will shut the equipment off anywhere you can if you have to smash it, whatever you
	Alright, here's a question for you that I've always wondered about.
	Why did it have to be you that went back?
	Well, we both went back.
	Your movie is an error.
	No, I understand, but I'm asking, why could it not have been anybody from the 80s?
	Why was it necessary that the two of you go back?
	Well, I think the simplest answer to that is the fact that we understood the system, and we knew what was critical.
	We knew what had to be shut off, and we were the most cognizant of the equipment and the way it worked.
	Do you think it had anything to do with the nature of time, which we all wonder a very great deal about?
	I think it did, because we had wound up in 83 from 43, and we had to get back to 43 to sort of close the loop.
	We couldn't do that without going back to the Elbridge first and then seeing the equipment which we wrecked with axes.
	I might add we had on... Alright, well we're getting ahead of the story and we're at the bottom of the hour so hold on just one moment.
	So they went back and we'll pick up on that and how it happened and what they did in a moment.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm Art Bell.
	To Al Bilek in Atlanta, Georgia.
	Al, welcome back.
	So, you're in Montauk, and we were kind of jumping ahead there.
	They wanted you to go back.
	They wanted you to stop this continuing rip in time by shutting this thing down.
	Yes.
	Now, what kind of time travel equipment did you observe that they had in the 80s?
	What did you see?
	Well, they had the, what we call at that time, the standard Uh, Montauk system, which generated a tunnel, you might say, in what normally appeared to be a solid wall, that created this tunnel about eight feet in diameter, which you would stand at the entrance when all the equipment was on, and it would, uh, literally suck you up and propel you to the point in space and time that they had set it for.
	And you or an object, even a car, could be spit out at the far end, uh, wherever that might be.
	Well, don't ask me how.
	They were calibrated to know where the outage was or how to get there, but they literally dumped Duncan and myself on the deck.
	So there you were.
	All right.
	What did you see when you reappeared on that deck?
	What were the conditions?
	What did we see when we reappeared on that deck?
	Complete pandemonium.
	There was all kinds of strange gaseous discharges or strange gaseous clouds on the deck of the ship.
	We found the control room, went in.
	Close the door behind us.
	Wait, another question.
	Was there any way, any way, for you to understand, uh, from the time you left the Eldridge, and their placement of you back on the Eldridge, how much time, this may be a dumb question, but how much time had passed?
	How long this had been turned on in real time?
	Was there any way for you to know that?
	No.
	Uh, for this reason.
	In hyperspace, normal space-time, Considerations do not apply.
	Time does not exist as we know it in hyperspace.
	Consequently, the ship could have been there for weeks, for all we know.
	For years.
	Speaking in terms of time as we know it here.
	I hear you.
	All right.
	It was ununknown.
	But all right, obviously the conditions had deteriorated severely.
	Yes, they definitely had.
	Did you see many?
	We saw a few sailors there who were in total dismay and turmoil.
	We did not see anyone buried in the deck at that point.
	Okay.
	So you guys, obviously not wanting a lot of exposure, headed straight for the control room.
	Right.
	And I might add, we had on radiation suits because we were warned that there might be severe radiation problems on board the ship.
	Yeah.
	We had on radiation suits, pretty much like they showed in the movie, the Philadelphia Experiment.
	And we went into the control room.
	Slammed the door shut.
	After we found some place access, and we proceeded to smash every piece of equipment within sight, all of the banks of electron tubes, some of the smaller pieces of equipment.
	We did not go after the generators or the large heavy equipment, we went after the control systems.
	And after we had chopped up enough of it, of course the generators started to wind down because all the controls for them were off.
	At that point, with the generator starting to wind down, we knew that essentially it was over, so we put down the axes and went back out on deck and looked around.
	At that point, of course, we still couldn't see anything beyond the railing.
	It was still a hazy gray.
	But we did see two sailors buried in a steel deck.
	They were literally buried?
	They were literally buried in the steel.
	The steel had intermingled molecularly with the flesh and bones of their bodies.
	Two buried in the same manner, upright in the bulkhead.
	And a fifth man had his hand in the bulkhead, up to his wrist.
	He was the only one of the five that lived.
	They cut his hand off and gave him an artificial one later.
	Standard-type amputee.
	So we looked at all of this, and the total pandemonium among the sailors were still, or should I say, standing on deck.
	They were milling around with total non-recognition of anything about where they were.
	So some of them didn't get buried or somehow avoided that.
	I wonder how?
	Well, this is one of the problems we've tried to figure out since.
	What happened when the heel started to collapse?
	The ship was starting to drift back out of hyperspace to the point of origin.
	And I might add, in order to get back to the point of origin, there would be no Way to know where the ship would go except for a very specialized piece of equipment installed with that system that had been designed by Tesla back in the 20s, not the specific piece that they were using on the Eldridge.
	But he developed the FAA, what was called a zero-time reference generator, which provided absolute frequencies, phase-stable frequencies for all of the ILS and guidance systems across the country.
	It was more stable than anything we could have designed up until maybe 10, 15 years ago.
	In any case, a piece of equipment very similar to that is a time reference generator which locks into and references the center of the galaxy, our galaxy, the Milky Way.
	Right.
	And provides an ultra-stable time reference and an ultra-stable reference for all the other systems.
	Because of that piece of equipment and the way the whole system was configured, we knew
	and had been told that we'd destroy the rest of the electronics, but certainly not that
	piece of equipment, that the ship would eventually return to the starting point.
	So, and the starting point being, of course, the harbor in Philadelphia, literally at the
	point where the ship left.
	So as the fields were slowly collapsing, we looked around on deck.
	One of the sailors was our younger brother Jim, who was enlisted in the Navy right after
	Pearl Harbor, six years younger.
	And he was still conscious and I was crying and I went over and put my arm around him
	as his head and shoulders were out of the steel.
	Duncan looks at this, looks around the ship, heads for the railing.
	Wait a minute, Colette.
	You're telling me your brother was buried except for his head and shoulders into the steel?
	Yes.
	Except for his head and shoulders.
	He was in the steel.
	He was dying, but he was also crying at the same time.
	So I went over to him to try and comfort him.
	I knew it was hopeless.
	So did Duncan.
	I looked at this whole scenario and seeing sailors who were obviously out of their minds
	milling around on deck.
	Some of them were wavering in and out of reality.
	He headed for the railing and looked at me like, well, aren't you coming along?
	You know, is it possible, I have a question, the field collapsed erratically and no doubt
	not evenly at all.
	Is it possible that some of the sailors were in portions of the collapsed field that caused what you observed, this horrible death?
	That's very possible.
	The analysis of precisely what happened is probably nearly impossible today, but as the fields collapsed and as the ship came back to the normal reality and the sailors with it, everything didn't come back evenly and in complete synchronization like it left.
	Of course, the fields were collapsing randomly.
	Consequently, the effects were random.
	Now, what you said, obviously, you're going to look overboard or past the edge of the ship to see what you can see.
	Water, land, the docks?
	Still, at this point, see nothing.
	At the point where we could see water or land, the ship was back in the harbor, and that was after Duncan jumped overboard.
	Then I'm jumping ahead.
	Decided to jump overboard?
	Yes, and he left his scenario, and we left it there, and he wound up back in the future.
	As the saying goes, he wound up back at Montauk.
	And you?
	I stayed on board the ship.
	I was there when the fields totally collapsed, and it was back in the harbor.
	And, of course, I gave my report.
	Was that an instant thing?
	Or, I mean, did you just suddenly see the harbor, and land, and water, and... How did it manifest?
	How did you come back?
	You say the rail finally collapsed utterly, which obviously brought you back.
	Was it instantaneous or what?
	As they collapsed, the ship returned to the starting point.
	I can't say for sure whether the ship very quietly and without fanfare reappeared in the water where it had been or whether it plunged in or not.
	It certainly didn't plunge in with any great degree of disturbance because we didn't feel any disturbance on the ship.
	So it arrived roughly just right back with displacing the same amount of water that it had before?
	Yes.
	And of course, on board the carrier and the other two observer ships, they saw that the ship was back and they could see that there were serious problems.
	From their perspective, how much time had passed?
	Four hours.
	Four hours?
	Four hours from the perspective of those on the ships observing the disappearance.
	All right, so they obviously knew there was distress?
	Oh, they knew there were serious problems.
	So what did they do?
	They could see through binoculars that there were serious problems.
	They sent a boarding party.
	First they tried to raise someone on the radio.
	They dropped no one.
	Then they sent a boarding party to literally board the ship.
	And they did.
	And they found the two sailors buried in a steel deck, nearly dead.
	They found two more in the bulkhead, as I had described, and of course the fifth man
	with his hand and wrist buried in the steel.
	And they left the dead and dying there.
	The man was still alive.
	They put his hand off and he lived.
	The others who were milling around on the deck wound up in the funny farms.
	They had another problem, of course, where some of them were fading in and out of our
	reality, which created a very serious problem.
	Nothing like this had ever happened before.
	How do you handle it?
	And this gave rise to some of the stories about the sailors who were still intact and
	at least partially sane, laying on of hands to try and stabilize their shipmates.
	This resulted in the design and development of special hardware to stabilize these guys in this reality, a project which involves several well-known scientists, which it took about six months to solve.
	But they did finally stabilize those guys.
	The others, there were some that disappeared by jumping overboard, and of course, some who were just essentially dead.
	Now, there were some who went overboard Or simply never heard from again anywhere, anytime?
	Not to our knowledge.
	There were rumors.
	Uh... I knew of two that jumped overboard, and they disintegrated and disappeared.
	There were actually four who jumped overboard, other than Duncan and myself.
	Nothing has ever been heard of them.
	Why do you presume that?
	Because when you jumped overboard... This is the paradox.
	We do not understand why we survived.
	And the others did not.
	This is an unknown we've never solved.
	And we had... I had heard from many sources that there were many who ended up in psychiatric institutions.
	Yes, this is true.
	Those around the deck wound up in psychiatric wards.
	Eventually, one by one died.
	What did the war department tell their families?
	Basically, it told them that they were lost at sea during the war.
	They covered it up totally.
	They lied, lately, to the families.
	Not an unknown thing for our government to do.
	Not an unknown thing, no.
	Even today.
	And of course, under guise of war and the pressures of war, there was some justification for this.
	It was an experiment that went totally sour, and they didn't want anybody to know what happened because it was also in an alien involvement, which I did not believe the rumors at the time, but I have since have acquired paperwork from the head medical doctor, Dr. Oskar O. Schneider, who was the chief medical officer during the period to the
	test and after which for many years he eventually did an autopsy on one of the sailors who died
	and recovered an implant device was one in the brain and three more in various parts of the
	body and wrote a letter which I have the copies of. I am not surprised because obviously
	anything that would have to do with hyperspace uh reflecting back on a million shows I've done about this
	kind of thing.
	Oh, yeah.
	This is the problem.
	There are apparently others out there, aliens that want it.
	What is this piece of antiquated hardware suddenly showing up out here?
	Whose is it?
	What is it?
	And according to some of the sailors who we thought were crazy, they may have aliens tramping all over the ship.
	Right.
	It's like having a stealth bomber turn up in 1943.
	Exactly.
	Except there was sort of a reverse scenario.
	I hear it was a 1943 device turning up in the future, if you will.
	Not even truly in the future, but someplace else.
	What about you?
	What about you?
	In other words, when you came off the ship, obviously you were still pretty much in command of your faculties.
	Yes, I was.
	They must have debriefed the hell out of you.
	Well, those below deck were shielded from the effects of the radiation.
	Consequently, they were all essentially normal.
	There was one exception.
	There was one guy there that had a problem with fading in and out of visibility.
	Eventually, that was stabilized.
	But the rest of them were, other than they knew something terrible had been going on, they sensed that they were essentially normal in terms of the faculties and their physical responses.
	They must have talked and talked and talked to you to try to— Oh, yes.
	Oh, yes.
	The Scuttlebutt went for the entire Navy from Philadelphia around the world that something really weird had happened in the Philadelphia harbor that day.
	Right.
	And, of course, the Navy had quite a problem suppressing this.
	It became classified, top secret.
	The whole project was already classified, and they put everybody into quarantine, and later on, as the letters showed, Yeah, Hoover got into the act, as well as others, to declare this thing top secret, bury the whole thing, and turn the ship's log over to Admiral Hillenkopper.
	But the... Well, he became the first director of MJ-12, and they wanted to bury what was in the log.
	Now, when the ship was given to the Greeks in 1951 by Maritime Law, they must have the log of the ship.
	They did have it.
	It was given to them.
	Minus every page prior to January 1, 1944.
	No kidding.
	Now, it was a disaster, a biological disaster.
	It was a disaster of many proportions.
	So did they ostensibly, at that time, shut the research down, shut the project down, classify the whole thing, and stop?
	Or?
	They did not stop the research, no.
	They did not?
	There was a third test on the outreach in late October.
	In the outer harbor, well below Philadelphia.
	And that one was also a disaster, but at least they took the personnel off the ship after it was on station, so that no one was hurt.
	The ship had problems afterwards, so that was when they scrapped the project.
	That was when they stopped it.
	But even then, they didn't stop research into time they could not have, or the Montauk business could not have happened.
	Essentially true.
	Montauk was a continuation of some of the research done in the Philadelphia Experiment.
	It was also a continuation of research which the Germans had been doing because they had their own invisibility project.
	And they ran into the same disastrous problems we did.
	And they scrapped their project, except that when the war was over, we, shall we say, acquired their scientists and their know-how.
	Everyone was put into Brookhaven National Laboratories in 1947 to continue the research on time travel Right.
	It's not something you just let go of.
	A lot of times these stories just stop, you know, and we never picked up on it.
	experiment which was known as Project Rainbow was terminated in 1947. In 1949
	they resurrected it under a new name Project Mirage and they sent to von
	Neumann and says see if you can find out what went wrong see if you can salvage
	any part of this. Right it's not something you just let go of a lot of
	times these stories just stop you know and we never picked up on it that would
	be that would come to me come across to me as baloney.
	It's a very, very powerful, dangerous technology.
	That's right.
	But that's never stopped the military before.
	No, they didn't stop.
	It's too powerful to stop.
	They solved the problems.
	Von Neumann did solve the problems in 1953, and he had, of course, have as part of the solution, the computer, the new one which he had designed.
	He delivered a new system to the Navy.
	They tested it on the carrier Midway.
	It was fully successful, but with all personal side effects.
	And of course, I was no longer part of that project.
	I was long since out of the Navy as Ed Cameron, and out of Ed Cameron, if you will.
	And I only know that they did solve the problem, and it was fully successful.
	Part of the solution was a reduction in the power level.
	And from that point on, of course, for many generations, it's now on all of our fighter aircraft.
	It's on the large carriers.
	The Israelis have it on their fighter aircraft.
	There's even been public demonstrations over Hawaii.
	People have seen a lot of craft come and go.
	Believe me, Al.
	Listen, we're at the end of this hour, and I did only promise to keep you three hours.
	Right.
	But we started a half hour late now.
	I know you've got a date later today, and you've got to get some sleep, so shall we cut it off here, or do you have any more time, or how do you feel?
	Well, if you want to run about another half hour, we could do that.
	Sounds good to me.
	Uh, just about exactly right.
	In fact, alright, stay right where you are.
	My guest is Al Belich.
	A survivor of the Philadelphia Experiment.
	Now, once Al is gone, in fact, we'll ask when we come back, I don't think there will be anybody else to tell the story you're hearing tonight.
	To get a copy of this tape, you can call 1- 800-917-4278.
	That's 1-800-917-4278.
	Guy, who will be left to tell this story?
	That's a very good question.
	I know specifically of one other person who was on board the others at that time.
	It was one of the officers who was below deck.
	You're still alive.
	But, uh, Will's memory is starting to, uh, fail.
	He's in his mid-80s.
	And, uh, you were also, speaking of age, you had a question you wanted me to answer about how could I have been on the Elders if I'm only 71.
	Of course.
	Well, the answer is I'm not just 71.
	I was not born in 1927, as my birth certificate as albelic says.
	There was a lot of research that says to me very clearly there was an albelic.
	But that albelic is not me.
	I was born in 1916, 4th of August.
	Consequently, I would be 81 today, which would put it in the right category.
	Yeah, that's right.
	Because I would have been 27 at the time of the test.
	And Brother Duncan was born in 1917, about seven months later.
	Same father, two different mothers.
	And it is a very—I'll have to give a very brief synopsis of what happened.
	After the experiment failed, I was eventually transferred at the request of John von Neumann.
	I was working on the bomb project to Los Alamos myself with my family.
	I had a wife and a young son at that point.
	And I was there from July 1944 to July 1947.
	And due to the fact that I had full access to the black wall, as they called it quite
	legally, I had a classified report on the development of the atomic bomb.
	I also found some other things in there referring to other projects which had nothing to do
	with the bomb or the Philadelphia experiment.
	And I started talking about it, even though it was within classified personnel circles.
	I raised a lot of nasty questions.
	And finally, the axe descended.
	I was removed from Los Alamos on the 4th of July, 1947, transferred to Washington expecting
	Did not have it.
	Was transferred from that point to Fort Hero, a new assignment.
	There's a Navy base there, which is quite true.
	It was a Navy base.
	It's still there, but I do not know if it's active today.
	In terms of the underwater submarine pen entrances, there I was again reactivated, shall we say, by Montauk in no way to find people.
	I was pulled up into 1983 and the very tearful von Neumann He told me what they were going to do to me.
	He says they want to eliminate you as apparently a threat to someone.
	So they're going to strip you of your life memories as Ed Cameron.
	They're going to age regress you down to the size of a young infant.
	Plug you into another family in the past with another name and hope that you never remember any part of it.
	Of course, the idea was if I did remember any part of it, I would probably be considered a little bit on the nutty side because nothing would fit.
	Well, I grew up as Alfie, like not knowing any better.
	And in 1988, my memories were recovered when I saw the Philadelphia Experiment movie for the first time, and I was in that Saturday night in January of 88.
	It may have been around, but I did not see it when I was in the movie house in 1984.
	I saw it as a video on HBO one Saturday night.
	All right, I've got some people that would like to talk to you, but I've got also one pretty harsh question.
	I mean, there are a lot of skeptics about this.
	You know that, Al?
	Yes.
	Uh, here's one from Sunnyvale, California, named Bruce, who says, you know, maybe I've watched too many Exiles movies, uh, series, maybe I'm too cynical, but could Nell's memory be the result of hallucinations brought on by drugs or other artificial influence unknowingly given to him?
	Well, it's a good question and a fair question.
	The answer to that is no.
	Hey, I've never been on drugs.
	The who's notorious and that sort of thing.
	Number two, a number of people have identified me as Ed Cameron.
	One was, as I said, the same Mr. Allen Batchelor, who on a conference call quite some years ago in 91, never having met him personally, on a conference call, because he knew a lot about the Philadelphia Experiment and Preston Nichols set it up, he identified me eventually as Ed Cameron from my voice.
	Alright is rather unusual of itself. Yeah, you're right.
	And personally we had not had any personal conversations prior at least in the current era
	And he had been definitely on the outreach All right, there are people who want to talk to you and
	time slips by so real quickly first time caller line You're on the air with Al Belick. Hello. Thank you for
	taking my call Sure.
	You're going to have to speak up, sir.
	You're not very loud.
	All right.
	Here we go.
	Can you hear me now?
	Barely, but go ahead.
	Okay.
	Here's my question.
	When he landed in that installation and he fell off the edge of the ship, did you age or were you the same age when you were talking in front of that commander who had aged?
	Yes, I was the same age.
	Even though I traveled 40 years in time, I was still of the same age because my individual personal timeline Only progressed at the rate of normal biological clocks internal to the body.
	So, um, for Van Eyman and company, all those years had gone by.
	For you, it was but an instant.
	Yes, but for him, he had gone through it the normal way and was 40 years older.
	Right, that makes sense.
	Uh, Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Al Bielek.
	Hi.
	Uh, hi.
	Um, Art, thanks for taking my call.
	Yes, sir.
	Love your show.
	Um, Al, I was wondering, um, the phenomenon, uh, surrounding the Bermuda Triangle, could this technology
	have anything to do with that?
	No. The Bermuda Triangle did not have anything to do with the Philadelphia Experiment. But
	part of the phenomenon of the Bermuda Triangle may have had something to do with another
	project which I uncovered while I was at Los Alamos. That was Project Southern Cross. I
	mentioned that in my interview with Bart Bell about a year and a half ago. And Southern
	Cross involved discovery of some Atlantean crystal formations on the ocean floor, which
	I'm sure it did.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Al Belick and Art Bell.
	form of time travel. This was finally calibrated, nailed down, and functional by 1938. I found
	that in the bullet and I raised the question, if we had this since 1938, why did we ever
	bother with the Philadelphia Experiment? Well, that got me the ax.
	Yeah, I'm sure it did. I'm sure it did. East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Al
	Bielek and Art Belhie. Yeah, when he popped into 1983, was he in
	two places at one time?
	Did the young Al and the old Al were both alive ostensibly at that time?
	Really good question, yeah.
	How about that, Al?
	I mean, I and Ed were alive at the same time period, from 27 to 47, that's true.
	A great deal of effort was made to make sure that our paths never crossed.
	No, no, I'm talking about when he came into the... I can barely hear you.
	when you popped into 1983 from the Eldridge, you as a young man came into 1983 where you
	as the older man was ostensibly still alive. So essentially you were in two places at one
	Yeah.
	Theoretically, that was possible.
	They knew that that was a problem, a potential problem.
	Three days before the arrival on 12 August, 1983, I was told to take a hike and get off the base.
	In other words, they knew that might happen, and they intentionally prevented any paradox from occurring.
	That's correct.
	Oh, okay.
	Thank you.
	You bet.
	Thank you, Coler, and take care.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Al Bielek.
	Hello.
	Yes, this has been a great week of shows, Art, and I guess, Bielek, I'm going to say that you and Art are two brave people.
	I get chills up my spine as an audience listener thinking about what goes on around us.
	I was in the military.
	I went on the cops in New York, and I look back at my past, and I say lab rats is what I can see.
	A lot of people went through as far as our service, and I just get very fed up at the fact that no one explains what's going to happen on these experiments.
	I was involved.
	My father was in World War II, and Atomic blasts all the way down. It just aggravates me that
	we're just not dealing with people that explain what's going to be an
	experiment and it turns out that it turns into a catastrophe and lives are lost and your life was twisted so
	much and it's For a country and a cause that it's not explained
	But which is one of the reasons why I say deeply within my soul argument libertarian and I got very upset because I'm
	a Republican But I'm twisted now too because I'm wondering who the heck
	is running this country Well, to me, it's obvious, and that's what caused me to do what I did.
	Just keep reading the news, sir.
	You'll be with me shortly.
	Al, what is your attitude now?
	It's a fair question.
	About our government, I mean, your guinea pig experience, and that of those soldiers who died, sailors who died, is not unlike, I'm sorry to say, years of history since.
	There have been many guinea pigs, many experiments, GIs standing in front of exploding, detonating atomic weapons, you name it.
	Exactly.
	There's all four syndrome and that problem, etc.
	There's so many.
	The problem is this, we have a legitimate elected government, though in my belief structure many of them are sold out, but that is not the problem.
	The problem is a secret government and nobody has ever been able to determine precisely who constitutes the secret government, who gives the orders to whom, does anybody really sit on top dictating the orders.
	My inputs and my information indicates that we have Complicated problem involving aliens who are attempting to control our earthly governments and giving various inputs, instructions and orders.
	And we have a group here, which was loosely called the New World Order, trying to set up a whole new regime, which is nothing new.
	It's as old as history and very disparate.
	But the question is, and I don't think there is an answer.
	Who is really running the show?
	Nobody knows the answer to that, that I know of.
	So, without the answer to that, you can't have an attitude about him, I guess.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Al Bielek.
	Hi.
	Yeah, hi.
	I'm calling from Philips, Mississippi.
	Yes, sir.
	I have two questions, two quick ones.
	Number one, how long were you held in the future in 1983?
	And my second question would be, when your, what was his name, Duncan?
	No.
	Duncan, was it?
	Your partner?
	Yes, Duncan, my brother.
	No, no, no.
	The partner on the time travel thing.
	You went overboard with him?
	Yeah, that was Duncan.
	Oh, that was Duncan.
	Okay, I'm sorry.
	You said he jumped back overboard.
	Went back to the future.
	Did he go back to the future, or did he just... He went back to the future in the Montauk sometime in the period of late 82 to 83.
	I'm not sure where.
	Have you ever met him again?
	He once had a severe accident.
	Uh, aged very rapidly and essentially died.
	And since the technology at that point had advanced to the point, once we had time travel, we went back and contacted father and says, Hey, your son is dying.
	Get busy and make a new, a new son.
	So his fifth wife, uh, the new Duncan was born in 1951, but the personality of the old Duncan did not enter the body until 1963.
	And that we've been able to prove under hypnosis that that is the fact that what happened, because when we tried to take him back earlier in 1963, he's on the decks of the Eldridge, and he had no interest in the whole Philadelphia Experiment.
	Suddenly, it hit him in the face.
	There is, yes, there's many little problems here, and turning weird the whole story.
	Yep, it is weird, but of course it would be.
	Yeah, how long were you in 1983 for?
	Yeah, that's a good question.
	What was the question again?
	How long were you in 1983?
	Oh, in terms of?
	In linear time.
	Approximately 12 hours.
	12 hours, yeah, long enough to watch TV and have all this explained to you and so forth and so on.
	Yeah, the time, I might add, the time flow At Montauk was not necessarily linear.
	They could dilate time and stretch it any way they want, so 12 hours there sounds peculiar, because it was only four hours the ship was gone.
	But if you look at the whole matrix of this business of time, all kinds of distortions are possible.
	All right.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Al Bielakai.
	Hello?
	Yes.
	Yes, you're... Oh, you're... I'm sorry.
	E.H.
	Honolulu, Hawaii.
	Honolulu, all right, yeah.
	Let's see.
	Oh, when you time travel, is it like a near-death experience or an out-of-body experience?
	Would you see a white light or anything like that?
	This was not out-of-body.
	This was in-body.
	In-body?
	Yeah.
	In other words... Did you have any, uh, experiences like, uh, these near-death experiences where they see a white light or go through a tunnel?
	Uh, I have not had any near-death experiences, no.
	The business of the tunnel, however, has come up at least once.
	I have not achieved a good answer as to what that was in relation to.
	Well, in the movie it seemed like the whole ship and the whole group is sort of like a group, you know, a near-death experience.
	You were looking at, in the movie, you were looking at the end of it, the experiment.
	Um, if you recall, I think Al did describe pretty well what he saw and sensed as he fell through what was kind of a blackness.
	Oh.
	Okay, so that's not the white light, not the typical NDE experience.
	This was physical time travel.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Al Bielek.
	Hi.
	Hi, how you doing?
	Al, it's a pleasure to talk to you.
	Oh, where are you, sir?
	Hi, this is George in Philadelphia.
	Hi, George.
	Okay, my question is to Duncan Cameron.
	No, I don't hear anyone there.
	Yeah, I know, he's very weak.
	I'll try and get a question.
	All right, Duncan Cameron, is he still alive?
	All right, the question is, is Duncan Cameron still alive?
	Yes, he is.
	And does he, does he talk about this?
	He does occasionally, and occasionally I've gotten him out on the lecture circuit to talk about the Thordak experiment, but he doesn't like to talk about it too much.
	He's a very shy and retiring person.
	Uh, he was a mainstay at Montauk, and he was anything but shy during that period.
	However, as it collapsed, or before it collapsed, he became rather reticent and shy, and he's been that way ever since.
	Rather reticent and shy, and he's been that way ever since.
	Well, what about the psychological effects on you, not just of the whole experience, but of seeing These sailors die so horribly.
	Well, it had quite an effect on me at the time, I can assure you.
	And it was even more of an effect when I was assigned to the burial detail.
	They cut the plates out of the deck with the bodies, and I was in charge of the burial detail in an area, at that time, that was open country.
	Even then, they kept things compartmentalized.
	Listen, Al, we're out of time.
	You're going to speak in Atlanta tonight.
	Yes.
	At 8 o'clock, which is why you've got to go now.
	Where is that going to be and... At the Cobb Galleria Center.
	They're preparing the show.
	It's on the second floor in Hall C. And it will be open all day from 10 a.m.
	to 9 p.m.
	And it'll be open tomorrow, so... Can people get tickets during the day?
	Does it require tickets or what?
	Yes.
	The $7 admission charge, quite reasonable.
	You can get, oh, seven bucks.
	You can get it at the door.
	Right.
	And they can come and listen to you at 8 o'clock.
	Yes, uh, tonight there will be some of the speakers and no more of them.
	There'll be a $5 additional charge for the seminar.
	All right.
	Well, that also is nothing.
	Al Belick, thank you so much for taking the time to be with me, and I hope there's a big crowd there for you tomorrow.
	Thanks very much, Art.
	Talk to you later.
	Take care, my friend.
	That is Al Belick.
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Um, Judge, too quickly.
	Perhaps you should hear a fax that just came in.
	.
	This is from Marie.
	Addressed to Art and guest, the guest now gone, of course.
	Subject, corroborating events of the Philadelphia experiment.
	Art, I have faxed this information to you in the past, but I'll restate the information passed on to me by a daughter of a crewman, one of the crewmen On one of the experimental ships, he, the father, was not on the ship that day.
	He was, however, aware of the following symptoms experienced by his former shipmates after the ship reappeared.
	Some were dead.
	Some unaccountable.
	Some found merged with the ship, in the middle, literally.
	Some were still alive.
	Some untouched.
	almost left alive, were put into mental wards. A few were able to function amongst other
	men on base for some time. One of them was observed eating in the cafeteria. His hand
	and the fork literally began to disappear. One walked through a wall. They'd fade in
	and out. To those observing them, those who faded would fade back in. There was a newspaper
	article saved by the family of the daughter mentioned above.
	It would have authenticated the events of one of the experiments.
	Her father told her of more than one experiment.
	One in which the ship ended up in another harbor farther south, having begun on northern Atlantic coast of the USA.
	One in which the ship disappeared.
	So many things your guest has said are the same things I was told by her before 1992.
	He's stating so many things, uh, that, uh, are the same, that, uh, this must have happened.
	And that is from Marie.
	Call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
	Okay, East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Yes, sir.
	Uh, this is Eric in Houston.
	Hello, Eric.
	Listening to you on KTRH 740 AM.
	Yes, sir.
	Uh, very frustrating hour for me.
	I was the one who called earlier about Carl Allen.
	Carl Allen.
	The strangest thing, Art, you're not going to believe this, but you put me on hold the first time, and I heard a click, and then another click, and then I heard a ringing tone.
	Really?
	Yeah, and then all of a sudden the operator comes on saying, if you'd like, if you'd like... You know what?
	And then you put me on hold again, and then it happened again.
	This is not unusual.
	Okay.
	I'm not kidding.
	Lately, my phones Last night was a really good example, and we've had lots of other examples that have been totally weird.
	These songs have been totally weird.
	Yeah.
	The only thing I wanted, and I wanted to ask Mr. Bielek, and maybe someone attending tomorrow can ask him, or some later date.
	Okay.
	Carl Allen, also known as Carlos Allende, was a curious figure.
	This story is detailed in Jacques Vallée's Revelations.
	Morris K. Jessup was an astronomer who wrote a book on flying saucers back in the early 50s.
	Yes.
	A couple of years later, a strange marked-up copy of his book was sent to him by a merchant.
	A marked-up copy?
	Yes.
	Well, I mean, not like, you know, something random, but I mean multicolored and detailed marginalia.
	I've got you.
	And such.
	And it was allegedly sent by this Carl Allen, sometimes he called himself Carlos Allende, and among other things in that book was the story of the Philadelphia Experiment.
	He claimed to be a crew member on this ship, on one of the experiments anyway.
	Right.
	And so you wanted to know if he had ever heard or knows anything about this?
	Exactly.
	Exactly.
	So, anyway, that was my question.
	All right, well, maybe it will be posed, as you point out, later in the day when Al speaks in Atlanta.
	You know, there's an awful lot of corroborating evidence for what Al had to say.
	Wild a tale, as you may believe it to be.
	And that is why it so strongly continues to exist today, because first-time callers call Area 702-727-1222.
	East of the Rockies.
	You're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Yes.
	Hi, Eric.
	This is Roger from Chicago.
	Hi, Roger.
	How's Chicago this morning?
	Oh, it's all right.
	The blues didn't do it, but anyways, I was wondering, in relation to alzheimer's, you know, tuberculosis, epidemics, how they've come back over the years?
	Yes.
	We have one coming back right now, actually.
	Yeah, I was wondering if it was possible, maybe military experiments where, say, like Ebola, what happened there in Africa, if there could have been time travel experiments.
	Oh, yeah, anything's possible.
	I wouldn't be able to answer that.
	I, of course, have no way of answering that.
	But with regard to diseases in general, one might imagine There is, of course, always the danger of a little bug, a virus, or something, like Ebola, racing through humanity and virtually destroying it.
	If time travel is possible, then one might imagine the Earth, literally the population of the Earth, could be saved by manipulation of time.
	If manipulation of time is possible.
	And I can't answer that one.
	First time calling a line, you're on the air, hi.
	Morning, Art.
	Hi, I can barely hear you, sir.
	Good.
	Yeah, you're not too strong.
	Can you hear me now?
	Much better, thank you.
	Go ahead.
	Huh?
	Huh?
	Go ahead, I said.
	I was kind of wondering, did you know that the Philadelphia Experiment was put on CNN tonight?
	Oh, no, I... Are you sure it was the original?
	Or was it the Philadelphia Experiment 2?
	I'm not sure.
	I just saw the advertisement.
	Yeah, it's been on lately, sir.
	Yes, I'm aware of it.
	Thank you.
	And what they're running, I commented on this earlier, is the Philadelphia Experiment 2.
	And I think, compared to the original movie, it's horse poop.
	And frankly, Al Belick, with one exception, agrees with that assessment.
	The original movie was dynamite, and very close to what actually happened.
	Don't be fooled.
	The Philadelphia Experiment 2 is now running on the movie channels, and, um... It's a story.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Well, how are you doing tonight, Eric?
	I'm doing okay, how are you?
	Still, I live outside of Cleveland, and...
	My call wasn't so much related to the evening show, but I just caught the tail end of it.
	No, we're in open lines now.
	I was just curious, have you heard the names of the Hopi Eldies that are going to be on next week?
	Yes, but I'm not giving them out.
	Okay, because I've been honestly for a year trying to finish reading this book, The Hopi Survival Kit.
	I've been putting off reading the last chapter, and I'm just going to try to read it.
	We're intentionally not giving out their names.
	Because of the amount of pressure that would be applied prior to the broadcast if we did.
	I'm sure that makes sense.
	I'll be looking forward to hearing it.
	I'm going to try to find a way to work it into my speech schedule next week so I can hear it live.
	All right, my friend.
	Thank you.
	I'm looking forward to it as well.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Yes, Ethan.
	How are you doing?
	Wildcard Reach before about the Antiquest.
	Oh, yeah.
	The Antiquest line.
	And I have the Antichrist line, yes.
	I'm going to mention a few things about that.
	Actually, in the Bible it mentions that there's not just one Antichrist.
	In fact, it mentions that...
	My show proved that without any problem at all.
	We had Antichrist calling all night long.
	In fact, I mentioned in John, or 1 John 4, or 3 or chapter 4,
	What do you figure, about 10% of them called me?
	You join the rest.
	says that there's many among them or there will be or they will be there and
	what do you figure about 10% of them called me?
	Well it does mention also to them that there's some or there were there
	that then at that time and basically it says that if you say that there is no
	Christ or Christ not God come to earth that you join the Antichrist. I gotcha.
	Well, we had a full rise of the Antichrist callers and I mulled over
	that program for a long time after we did it and when you think about it it
	was a very meaningful program.
	Whether or not we heard from any real Antichrist is academic.
	What we did hear I think would support years of study at one of our better
	academic institutions in the country.
	Period. Maybe even a whole new Brookings report. West of the Rockies, you're on the air. Hi.
	Going once, twice, three times, go on. East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning, Art. Good morning. I don't mean to exactly change the subject.
	No, it's fine. We're open-minded. Okay. Well, as far as...
	I'm not sure exactly how to put this.
	Just do your best.
	Take your best shot.
	Oh, right.
	Uh, as far as the world, quote-unquote, coming to an end... Yes.
	Um... I... I've never told anyone about this or anything, but I have all my life had dreams of that happening.
	Well, there's only one thing that we know for sure.
	When you die, for you, the world has ended.
	This is Terry, and one thing that I would like to point out is I have a very imminent feeling about this, and that it's not going to be good for anyone.
	I know.
	Many, many have that same feeling.
	And currently, I'm working on packing my backpack, and I have medications, first aid kit, patches, all ready packed and ready to go.
	Well, I think that's good advice for everybody.
	Anybody out there who doesn't listen to what's going on, whether you reject a great deal of what you hear or not, and do some basic preparation, is out of their minds.
	I really mean that.
	You're out of your mind.
	And, of course, you will be the first to go.
	Those who are unprepared, whatever happens, will be the first to go.
	And even if none of it happens, and we just have the continuing disruptive weather patterns, and killer tornadoes, and hurricanes, and all the rest of it, if you have prepared, you have done a good thing for your family.
	Right?
	On the international line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi, Eric.
	This is Jeff calling from Vancouver, British Columbia.
	Hi, Jeff.
	How you doing?
	Okay.
	Good.
	I just wanted to make a comment.
	You were talking in a show earlier this week about gun control and how you didn't believe that had anything to do with some of the young people going in their classroom and very blowing people away for no reason.
	Yeah, if you take away the guns, for example, the young man who, our most recent horrible incident, as you know, occurred in Oregon, right?
	Yes.
	Well, he, that young man, when they, of course, apprehended him and searched his home, they found more guns and at least five large sophisticated anti-personnel bombs.
	So, if we were to have taken the guns away from him and he wanted to kill a bunch of people, he still could have done it.
	So, if you really think gun control would prevent this sort of thing, tell me how.
	Oh, no, I don't.
	I actually wanted to agree with you because I grew up in the country and me and all my friends had guns.
	Um, when we were 14, 15 years old, we grew up hunting with guns, and none of us ever thought of using them against anyone else.
	Um, everybody, when I grew up, had guns.
	It was a commonplace thing.
	And I'm not a very old guy, but we never ever thought of going in and blowing away our classmates.
	So I just wanted to agree with you on that comment.
	Well, thank you for doing so, and, uh, yeah.
	Well, guns are just things.
	Machines.
	Mechanical devices.
	That's all they are.
	And there are far more sophisticated mechanical devices capable of far more efficient mass killing.
	So, we should not be arguing about guns.
	We should be arguing about social behavior and why we have this going on.
	And I don't buy into the too-much-TV arguments.
	The movies.
	The video games.
	I don't buy any of that.
	At the expense of repeating myself.
	I think there is something else at work here.
	And that's what we're getting today.
	Now, I don't claim to know what it is.
	I really don't.
	But some other force is at work here, and I'll leave it at that.
	Uh, first-time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	Yes.
	Hey, this is Sterling in Reno.
	Yes, sir.
	Hey, I was calling to change subjects about the moon.
	Okay, what about the moon?
	I was wondering if you could open the line for people who've been to the moon.
	Well, I... Have you?
	Not yet.
	Trying to.
	Well, with respect to the Apollo program, there are only a very few that have been to the moon.
	That's true, but several of your guests have talked about bases on the backside.
	Well, they speculate about that, yeah.
	That's true.
	I was wondering if any of the personnel would like to call in and talk to you about it.
	I see.
	Um, all right.
	Well, um, maybe we'll do that one morning.
	I'm personally leaning toward the confession line first, but, uh... That's true.
	Well, we'll get to a moon line.
	Why not?
	What the hell?
	Thanks.
	All right.
	You're welcome.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Uh, I'll turn that radio on.
	Yes, yes.
	Hello.
	Yeah, hello.
	This is Jerry from Shady Cove, Oregon.
	Shady Cove, Oregon.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Yeah, I don't have the vocabulary that Deans has.
	Um, uh, I'd like to, but I don't.
	I just want to, uh, so I'll just, you just have to try to understand what I want to say.
	Uh, the first thing I want to say to your audience is not to believe the doomsday predictions this guy is giving out.
	If you believe him, you will be the loser.
	Prophecy is a gift of God.
	And any prophet that is less than 100% accurate is a false prophet, right?
	Well, you could say that, yes.
	I did say that.
	Actually, the Bible says that, and that's what people like you believe.
	Well, the real prophets do not give out bad doomsday prophecies.
	Well, how do you know it's bad?
	Well, I know it by a statement of somebody that everybody in metaphysics is familiar with, but he never goes public with it.
	What?
	Saint Germain.
	He's a lot smarter than these psychics are.
	And I think it's time that your audience He needs to know that these psychic predictions are made by people who are newcomers to the psychic plane.
	They always make these predictions of disaster, but they're real.
	If he had said Saint Germain gave him all this information, then you would have believed it?
	Saint Germain would never have given a prediction like that.
	Well, then what would have made you believe it?
	You said Saint Germain.
	That's how you knew it wasn't real.
	Yes, and he's a lot smarter than these psychics are.
	He has not made public statements about this, but in private he has.
	Oh, you mean you've heard Ed Dames in private?
	No, I've heard Ed Dames on your show.
	Well, wait a minute.
	You just said he said it in private.
	In private, yes.
	How do you know that?
	From reading his books.
	Huh?
	From reading his books.
	His books are public, sir.
	Well, not really.
	The public is not really that much aware of them.
	He doesn't try to publicize his ideas.
	I see.
	Yeah, as far as I know, you see, unfortunately for you, sir, he hasn't written a book.
	It was one of the key questions last night.
	Hey Ed, have you written, or are you going to write a book?
	Answer, no.
	So, you're reading, you may be reading some book or another, but it wasn't by Ed Dames.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	I look at it daily.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air, hi.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Joe from Klamath Falls.
	Hello, Joe.
	I'm listening to the radio station KAGO.
	Yes, sir.
	I was going to ask you a couple of things.
	I wanted to talk to you before.
	I never did get a chance to get my subject out.
	My dad, I believe, was on the Eldridge, was the Philadelphia Experiment.
	Your dad?
	I believe so.
	Well, why do you believe that?
	Did he tell you that?
	Well, he told me a lot of facts that I had no idea what he was talking about.
	And then I started listening to your show, and someone on your show, I think it was some old colonel or something, he was about my dad's age, and he said something that was quote-unquote exactly what my dad said.
	He was in a hospital, after having been on the Navy, In the Navy.
	Could it have been Al Belick?
	What?
	Could what have been Al Belick?
	No, my dad?
	No, the person who... Oh, yeah, it might have been.
	I don't remember his name.
	I interviewed Al Belick.
	He did the Philadelphia Experiment story.
	Yeah, it was the person who said that they were one of the survivors of the 25 guys.
	I believe 23 of them alive.
	That's right.
	Two of them died.
	Yep.
	The story was that he was saying was that there was a hospital.
	He was or no, they called it soul transplanting.
	Is your dad still alive?
	My dad's alive.
	He underwent shock treatment after this situation in the Navy where all he told me was he got on the ship.
	He was in the ship getting ready to go across the ocean.
	And then he was diagnosed with some medical problem, taken off the ship and given shock treatment.
	And told crazy, and in my opinion, brainwashed, because now if I, every time I ask him, the more and more I got into probing him, the less and less he would tell me.
	He's a recluse that lives way out on a ranch, far, far away from any city as you can get.
	Something similar to what I'm sure maybe you sound like you're in.
	I mean, this guy, I don't know what it is about it, but then he, now he tells me he never even went on the ship.
	Each time I get closer to telling him, you know, it's like he knows the whole story, but he's trusting in the government and he won't disclose the information.
	Why don't you put me in touch with your father?
	I've been trying to get a hold of you for so long and tell you this story.
	I got on the air twice, but I wanted to be polite and talk the subject and ask the caller.
	I see.
	Well, all right.
	This is open lunch.
	Talk about anything you want.
	But what I'm asking is why not put your dad in touch with me?
	I would do that, but one, I know he'd clam up, and two, he's been called crazy to the point that he believes he himself is crazy.
	He doesn't even trust anything he would say or think about it.
	He's fairly slow, too.
	He doesn't answer quickly.
	I see.
	But see, when I talk to him, he's totally clear.
	It's almost as if he uses that They told him he was crazy as an excuse to, you know, do whatever he wants to do or say whatever he wants to say.
	The thing is, I was taken away from my father, my mother, at birth.
	They didn't know who my father was, for sure.
	And I was adopted by a colonel in the Air Force.
	This is a true story.
	Now it's going to sound far-fetched because it's so... Since I started listening to your show, I've been trying to get through to you.
	I was adopted out of Roswell, New Mexico.
	Is that strange or what?
	Well, there's lots of normal citizens in Roswell.
	Oh no, this is what I'm coming to believe.
	I didn't know that.
	I thought it was just an Air Force base because I was adopted on an Air Force base and I never even knew that that was actually like a city or anything.
	And then I heard your term, somebody mentioned a double dimple babies adopted from Roswell.
	Have you heard that before?
	No.
	It probably didn't come from my show.
	I appreciate the call.
	But I'm not exactly sure where you're coming from other than Roswell.
	Interesting, though.
	And I have wondered many times those people that we call crazy, or that we convince, Institutionally, that they are crazy.
	How many really are?
	And how many perhaps are not so crazy?
	Just conveniently labeled that way.
	International Line?
	Aileen from Vancouver.
	Welcome to the program.
	Thank you.
	You know, if there's one thing that Kent Smith should have taught us all, it's how to tell a liar.
	And I noticed it from the reversals because There's a lot of stalling in his speech, a lot of pauses.
	And that's where reversals tend to occur.
	Yeah, and the words like er, um, uh, ah.
	That's right.
	And repeating words to fill empty air so that you can think about your fabrication that you're going to say next.
	The other problem though is that there are a lot of people who have Um, a slight halting type of speech as a normal course of events.
	And how do you tell between the two?
	Well, I think that if somebody's speaking truth, it just pours out of them.
	They don't have to stop to think about the alternative dialogue in their mind.
	Well, yeah, but there are a lot of people with slight speech impediments.
	Take David Oates as an example.
	He has a speech impediment.
	That's what led him to the study of speech in the first place.
	There are people with varying degrees of speech ability.
	Some of them have halting thought processes, and it results in halting speech.
	And so, you know, I'm not sure how you tell the difference.
	Well, I think that it was Kent that made me skeptical about people like that.
	And Robert, the interdimensional traveler?
	Yes.
	He had a couple of contradictions that I noticed.
	He was here studying history, he was saying.
	But then he said he wasn't a history buff.
	So, that doesn't make any sense to me.
	And also, he said that our timelines split at a certain point.
	When was that?
	Can you recall?
	Um, I seem to recall him saying 1920-something-6.
	Exactly.
	And then he went and said that their automobile in their timeline was invented in the 1840s.
	Yes.
	Which would have been If our timelines split in 19-something, then they would have been the same.
	Now, when was our automobile?
	Then the automobile would have been covered at the same time.
	I see your point.
	Well, maybe.
	It may be that many things followed in the two alternate universes.
	Not precisely so.
	I mean, he did say there were a lot of differences, that we mainly followed a similar plane I don't see that as necessarily a contradiction.
	It may be that their technical civilization developed before ours.
	But the timelines were the same, he said, up until 1940 or 1920.
	Not precisely the same.
	Pretty much the same.
	Okay?
	Alrighty, then.
	Alright, thanks for the call.
	In other words, if you recall, he said, pretty much the same.
	There were differences.
	But we were fairly similar until and then, I think it was in the 1920s.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Oh no, it's a voice changer.
	First time callers, call area 702-727-1222.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi, this is Jim calling from Maryland.
	Hello, Jim.
	Apollo 13 was headed for the moon when it blew up.
	Uh, no.
	When it blew up?
	Yeah, the oxygen tank blew.
	Oh, yes.
	And they got them back.
	Yes, I recall.
	Slingshot around the moon came back.
	Yes, correct.
	Well, so it is said.
	Others say we never went.
	Yeah.
	A lack of a 79-cent electrical sink, as it's called.
	That's right.
	I mean, That's all it takes.
	You're dealing with a very, very high-tech machine, and one little part not working can bring the whole machine down.
	NASA called somebody I'm very close to and asked him what happened at the time.
	Anyway, your time traveler should be able to tell you what happens tomorrow.
	What's the New York Times headline if he's a good time traveler?
	Shouldn't he?
	I guess I could ask that.
	Yeah, that'd be a good one.
	The problem with ufology, to make it more... I've been a journalist for 32 years, retired now.
	I think that if they would be less condescending and pompous about what they've got, and be more explicit, and try to get more down to earth, because the mainline press... You're talking about ufologists?
	Yeah.
	You think they're pompous?
	A little bit and condescending from what I've heard.
	I've been listening to you about two months now and they've got to get to the mainstream press deals in the here and now.
	They don't understand or don't see what the relevance is to what happened 10,000 years ago to our lives today.
	In other words, news is North, East, South, and West, as you know.
	I'm going to be doing an interview later today with the New York Times.
	What would you suggest I say?
	Try to get them to ask NASA some pertinent questions.
	And you certainly are loaded with them.
	Try to get them to ask some of those questions that you'd like to ask.
	Well, actually, I'm going to be interviewed, so I can make that... Oh, you're going to be interviewed?
	Oh yeah, they're going to interview me.
	Oh, they're going to interview you?
	The New York Times wants to interview me.
	Okay.
	Where do the pictures stand?
	I know the overnight picture.
	...Davenport and an incredible unfolding story of something that flew...
	Let us go now to Seattle, Washington where finally at home again.
	He's been about a month on the East Coast.
	Peter Davenport has quite a number of reports for us on things that have been going on.
	Recently.
	And so, to Peter Davenport at the UFO Reporting Center in Seattle.
	Hi.
	Good evening, Art.
	Good evening, Peter.
	There's a lot going on, I guess, huh?
	Boy, is there ever.
	Have you heard the, for some reason you're not coming in too strongly.
	Can you hear me better now?
	That's better, yes.
	Okay.
	I want to alert everybody, there has been a very serious X-class flare and coronal mass ejection on the sun.
	And if they would like to see it, they can.
	I suggest they go to my website and go to the links down at the bottom where it says links.
	And the first link will take you to actual photographs of what's going on in the sun.
	And you can go see a prediction.
	But we are having one hell of a magnetic storm right now that may even affect electrical grids.
	We're actually having that storm as I speak.
	Just wanted to get that in.
	Peter?
	Yeah.
	What's going on?
	Very interesting.
	Well, we had so many fascinating reports during the month of April, Art, I almost don't know where to begin.
	I've been sitting here for the last couple of hours trying to make heads or tails out of a month's worth of data, and every time I stumble upon a new case that came in during the month, I say, oh, that's the case I should include as well.
	The case that I would like to focus on, I think it's the most interesting.
	It's the most well-documented.
	From my standpoint, it's the closest to home.
	And perhaps the most interesting is a case that occurred on the 22nd of April, Wednesday night, that I alluded to and described briefly on Dreamland just about eight days ago.
	But we have more data now.
	I'm back in Seattle.
	We have the written reports.
	We've talked to The witnesses to this alleged object that went from north to south over the state of Washington, we don't know what the elapsed time was, but my suspicion is it was probably less than a minute, maybe two minutes at the most.
	And the reason that it is so interesting to me is that we now have solid evidence, Art, and this is the most interesting thing, I think, to our audience.
	We now have solid evidence That the object slowed down and almost came to a stop over the very high security nuclear weapons storage facility at Bangor Submarine Base, just about 20 miles west of Seattle.
	Oh my!
	The reason we know this, and this sort of cuts to what Bob Dean has said on your programs in the past with regard to an incident that occurred I think sometime back in the 1960s.
	When allegedly a disk was reported above a missile silo, I think it was somewhere out in Montana, maybe out of Malmstrom Air Force Base.
	This is not allegedly, because I have interviewed the people who were there.
	I've interviewed people who actually did the report and the follow-up investigation.
	There's nothing alleged about this.
	They shut those missiles down.
	I agree.
	And one of those gentlemen is from up here in Bellevue, Washington, just very across
	the lake from Seattle.
	I've met him.
	He's a very, very, very impressive guy.
	And when he says something, you just have the impression that he's telling the truth.
	But don't forget, Peter, the Air Force doesn't investigate these kinds of things because they're not a threat to national security.
	Yeah, that's obviously the case.
	They may not be a threat to the Air Force, but in my very lengthy conversation with a very nice gentleman in the Public Relations Office of Bangor Submarine Facility today, I got the distinct impression that the Navy is much more interested in these alleged non-events than the Air Force is.
	And we got admission today from that Office of Public Affairs that people inside the Bangor Submarine Facility apparently reported this incident as well.
	No kidding?
	So we have multiple sightings from outside the base and apparent Tentative corroboration of these reports from personnel inside the base, although I'm quick to admit that we don't know the details surrounding those alleged reports inside the base.
	I would not imagine you would.
	And we may never.
	And I have to be frank with our listeners.
	I'm going to play some audio cuts here in the course of this program tonight, I hope, that will give our listeners a very good feeling for the quality of data we have on this case.
	It is very good.
	It comes from multiple sources, seemingly independent sources.
	And I just have to say that my gut instincts tell me that this is a very interesting case.
	There's a great deal more investigation that has to be done, of course.
	We don't yet know for sure, but the facts... All right, now, let's see if I've got it straight.
	The object went north to south across the state of Washington.
	Yes.
	With a stop on the way.
	Actually two.
	Actually two stops on the way.
	Changed direction twice.
	And did all this in the course of a minute or two?
	Yes.
	Change directions was seen to come down vertically, possibly vertically, through solid overcast about 20 miles north of Seattle, although that's not entirely clear quite yet.
	Is there any way, by the way, of estimating the geography covered in the time, estimating speeds with the stops in mind?
	Has anybody done that?
	Yeah.
	Elapsed time and distances are known.
	It covered probably 200 to 250 miles.
	In, I'm guessing now, a minute or less, and that includes it slowing, apparently, allegedly slowing down to a virtual standstill over what's known as the SWFPAC, the Special Weapons Storage Facility for the Pacific Fleet, which is located at the Bangor Submarine Facility.
	Holy smokes!
	That includes about a five second or so stop over that facility and it apparently sped up and passed over Olympia at a very high rate of speed.
	By the time it got down to Vancouver, it sounds to us at this time, of course all of this is subject to amendment following our investigation, but it sounds that it slowed down Somewhat.
	Near Vancouver, Washington.
	And just last Wednesday, we got a report from Portland, Oregon, as well.
	It was seen there.
	But in that case, it was not going north to south.
	It was allegedly going west to east.
	So that was the second turn we believe that the object may have made in the course of about a minute.
	All right.
	Why don't you give us whatever audio you might have on this?
	The first cut I would like to play is one of the first reports we got on the evening of the 22nd of April, Wednesday.
	Comes from a young lad, age 16, goes to school up in Snohomish County, just about 20 miles north of Seattle.
	He and his mother were witness to something that they believe came down through the clouds.
	Here's about a 60-second cut of what this lad had to report he and his mother saw.
	Here we go.
	Alright.
	Did you see on the 22nd of April, Peter?
	Well, I saw a blue light that seemed to hover in the clouds.
	It was blue in the center, bright blue in the center, with a blue yolk almost around it.
	It hovered there for about 30 seconds, or excuse me, about three seconds, when it started to grow a tail.
	and it was still stable when it grew the tail.
	Mm-hmm.
	And then it shot down across the sky at about a 45 degree angle.
	Mm-hmm.
	And that took for about five to six seconds for it to shoot down across the sky
	and disappear below the horizon.
	And what direction do you think it was going as it left your position?
	From my position, it was headed about south, I believe.
	Mm-hmm.
	And where were you located at the time of your sighting, please?
	I was located about three miles south of Ken Wanda Gulf Coast, Mississaumi.
	Mm-hmm.
	Okay, so about roughly 20 miles north of Seattle?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	All right, that sounds like something out of Star Trek.
	It grew a tail and then... You will hear, if we're able to play the next three or four cuts, our listeners will hear a similar description.
	From two or perhaps three other witnesses who describe exactly that same phenomenon.
	Oh, give it, okay, absolutely.
	Go right ahead.
	Let me go to the next cut.
	It's about 100 seconds long, I think.
	That's fine.
	A little bit longer.
	This is the report we took from a gentleman who is located very close to the periphery of Bangor Submarine Base.
	He got a very good look at this, and I'm just going to leave it up to him to describe what he saw.
	All right.
	Here we go.
	Bangor Submarine Base, 22nd of April.
	Okay, it was approximately 9.20 p.m.
	on Wednesday evening, and I live, oh, about a half mile from The Banger Submarine Base.
	I was looking out a second floor bedroom window towards the base when I noticed a circular disc-shaped object approximately three-quarter mile from my house.
	It was also about 300 feet above the ground, about 200 feet above the tree line.
	The object appeared to be 50 to 60 feet long and was moving from a north to south direction towards the center of the Bangor Submarine Base.
	It was circular, but it was tilted at about, it seemed to be tilted at about a 35 degree angle with the bottom towards me.
	And because of that tilt, there was a slight oval shape to it.
	And what did you see on the bottom of it?
	The entire bottom of the craft was glowing with a white light.
	It wasn't a bright light that shone down to the ground.
	It was more just a very bright white glow.
	Except for the center section, there was a circular area in the center that comprised about 30% The center section was black.
	Holy mackerel!
	And that object was, so far as we can tell, at this point, directly over the bunkers that are located on Bangor Submarine Facility.
	What bunkers are those?
	For the storage of, no doubt, very special military assets.
	Special weapons.
	Nuclear?
	I would presume that's the case, but it's a very highly guarded facility.
	I've never been there.
	I've flown over it.
	I've seen it.
	It looks like a very posh Dallas suburb, except everything is underground.
	Long, long roads with bunkers with roads leading to each one of them.
	So I'm fairly certain that the contents are very high-priority military assets.
	I'll give the picture.
	So this object was seen up 20 miles north of Seattle going south-southwest.
	Hovering above our assets.
	Yeah.
	Headed directly towards Bangor Submarine Base.
	The next report we got is from Bangor Submarine Base.
	Alright, hold that report until after the break.
	Thank you very much.
	Peter Davenport.
	A very, very good investigation.
	Well, what do you think they might want with our assets?
	That's pretty curious stuff, huh?
	Headed toward the bottom of the hour, the top of the hour tonight, with big news from the Vatican, is Father Malachi Martin.
	It is going to be one whale of a week.
	Stay right where you are.
	Incredible unfolding story of something that flew north to south, then did some jogs and stops, and cruised right over our assets at the Bangor submarine base.
	Peter?
	Yeah, it's a fascinating story.
	Oh yeah, it sure is.
	I find this one to be alarming.
	Again, everything we report at this stage is tentative.
	It's under investigation.
	We may find out certain facts that may change our opinion in the future, but what our listeners are hearing tonight is our best guesstimate of what happened just about 12 nights ago over the state of Washington.
	I'd like to play one or two more cuts here that will give our listeners a little deeper understanding of what was seen further to the south.
	And it underscores just how anomalous this object and this event apparently were.
	We had several reports in rapid sequence making this case what we refer to as a self-corroborating case.
	Sure.
	In the sense that people apparently independently of one another are reporting the same event With all of its peculiarities as viewed from their respective vantage points.
	Yeah, no time for one witness to know the testimony of another.
	That's our presumption as well, Arthur.
	Sure, sure.
	The next cut I'd like to play is about a minute long from a gentleman who resides just about 10 or 15, maybe 20 miles south of Seattle.
	He was looking to the west from his residence in Auburn, Washington.
	And I'd like to play what he had to report to us that he saw that night.
	Here we go.
	And what did you see, please?
	On April 22nd, 9.25, around at night, I was out in the back.
	I noticed that facing west in Auburn, Washington, that there's green light up in the sky that About the color of a stoplight.
	A green traffic signal?
	Yeah, a green traffic signal light.
	You know, about that kind of a glow to it.
	And it was headed to the southwest.
	And I just got a glimpse of it for about two, maybe three seconds.
	And what was its size relative to a full moon, would you say, please?
	Oh, smaller than half.
	But this was, it was going a lot faster than the air traffic.
	A heck of a lot faster and a heck of a lot slower than what a shooting star would be.
	There was no... So you don't think it was a shooting star or a meteor?
	Oh, no.
	No.
	Okay.
	That's what he had to report.
	And the color green always Uh, flags a situation like this as being a potential meteorite.
	There are meteors or meteorites out there that have a lot of copper in them.
	Consequently, when they fly into the Earth's atmosphere and they heat up, they give off a characteristic blue or blue-green.
	Some people describe it as turquoise color.
	But, but meteorites rarely stop.
	That's correct.
	And this was a big one.
	This gentleman described it as approximately half the diameter of a full moon in the night sky.
	That is a very, very large and very prominent object.
	It certainly is.
	And one significant thing, nobody has reported any sound whatsoever.
	There was no sonic boom, which is characteristic of a meteor in most, or not most circumstances, but In circumstances in which the object was seen to apparently come as close to the ground as this one was, one is apt to hear sonic booms, and the first cut I played from about 20 miles north of Seattle had the object below solid overcast, and that was at a measured 5,000 feet.
	Above ground level, I think it is.
	At the speeds you're talking about, windows should have been broken down across the state.
	Houses might have been blown off their foundation.
	Exactly.
	By an object doing this velocity at less than 5,000 feet above ground level.
	The next cut is very interesting.
	It comes from a woman who was down just south of Olympia, Washington, near Rochester, Washington.
	She and her son were driving to the west.
	And let me just play what they have to report that they saw shortly after this last report.
	I just played.
	Here we go.
	And what did you see, please?
	Okay, on Wednesday, April 22nd at about 9.20 p.m., my two sons and I were driving west on Hunter Road Southwest, which is about a mile north of Highway 12 between Rochester and Oakville, Washington.
	And this object hit the sky.
	Very quickly we saw something that looked like a tail, a green tail, but it was only for a split second that we saw that and then the object continued on by itself without the tail and it was a little smaller than the moon in comparison to us.
	And it had a greenish glow around the whole entire object, but it also had three little areas above and below that looked like there was maybe a place where lights were showing or something that had a little different glow to them, more of a whitish color, yellowish kind.
	And how long did you estimate you just watched it, please?
	We must have seen it about two to three seconds, and it went very quickly, much quicker than any airplane.
	Or jet that we've ever seen.
	And, um, it was going from a north-south direction at about a, I'd say, 55, 45 to 60 degree angle, I could say.
	And it was, to us, it looked like it kind of followed the mountain, the hillside that we have over here.
	And it did a little funny jog back up.
	Same way that the mountain does and that's why I thought that's not a meteor or meteorite because it was able to go back up and then continue on the flight path that it was going on and then it went down below the tree line and I expected to either see an explosion or something or see it bounce back up because it was right down close to where the horizon is, the ground.
	So that's her description, and this is the third person who has reported to us that the object maneuvered in one respect or another.
	And not only that, but she describes in great detail at another point during our conversation, how it appeared to have three lights situated on the top of a disc-shaped object, and three lights on the bottom.
	That's a fancy meteorite.
	Yes, it is.
	And it went down, and then it went back up, Now, there's the possibility that it was some kind of optical illusion because it was very close to the horizon or very close to the outline of a mountain to the west of her vantage point.
	I gather sometimes when a very bright light is close to the horizon, tricks can be played on the human visual system.
	But she described it in great detail as to how it maneuvered.
	Well, if it were going horizontally, the Earth is curved.
	If it was not maintaining a certain altitude and simply traversed the horizon, it would appear to be up and go down and then go back up again.
	And that object was then reported from Vancouver, Washington by a couple who had a very good look at it.
	And just Wednesday night of last week, we got a report from a young gentleman, a musician, It was coming out of a facility down there, and he saw the object going from west to east, he believes it was.
	So the object, we presume, may have made a turn somewhere down near Portland, Oregon.
	Again.
	Again.
	Meteorite knots.
	Yep.
	And all of them reported the object was absolutely silent.
	Nothing was heard.
	But that was one of, I estimate, about four dozen good cases during the month of April, Art.
	And I almost regret focusing on this case, as interesting as it is, because it ignores the case that was reported to us on the 11th of April, a commercial airliner in airspace above Edwards Air Force Base that was called up by Joshua Control, Joshua Center, That's the Air Traffic Control Center at Edwards Air Force Base.
	They called up this particular airline pilot.
	I've spoken with him myself.
	They apprised him that he had two objects that had just passed his aircraft going the opposite direction from his direction of flight.
	And they did an instant 180 degree turn, change of direction.
	And they're now pursuing his aircraft.
	And they suddenly were seen to accelerate on radar.
	This is a radar sighting case.
	Wow!
	And overtake his aircraft.
	I talked to him.
	He was quick to admit that neither he nor his first officer saw anything, not a thing.
	All of this was from radar?
	All of this was a radar sighting.
	This is one of two radar sighting cases that were reported to the UFO Reporting Center during the month of April.
	We've got another case.
	This was on the 7th of April, I believe.
	It's very hard, isn't it, to get these guys to talk publicly, the radar people?
	Well, this was a military radar facility in Gold Tower.
	Impossible.
	Translate that to impossible.
	It threatens their jobs, I think.
	Yeah, well, I know.
	It's one of the reasons that I have severe reservation about a professional military.
	Because when you and I were in the military, I presume we were in about the same time, we had a draft, up until 1968 anyway.
	Absolutely.
	And those individuals who were drafted into the military, I think, to a large degree, served to keep the military honest, just as a free press keeps a democracy honest.
	Many of those draftees I'll tell you, you're right.
	In the career military, there's a lot of politic that goes on.
	Absolutely.
	Unbelievable amounts of it.
	And everybody's afraid of losing his career, losing his promotion, losing his retirement pension.
	That's right.
	And consequently, they can be leaned on.
	Of course, let me be fair with those people in the military.
	They are under civilian control.
	They can do nothing that they are not allowed.
	by their superior officer to do or say.
	We all understand that.
	But I think it is unfortunate, is the most polite thing I can say, that in a democracy, the military can be in a position where they deny the civilians.
	The military is under civilian control constitutionally, but when you're in the Air Force, you are under the control of, if you are enlisted, your first sergeant, And you're a commanding officer and a whole lot of people above that before you would ever think about civilian control.
	So if somebody tells you to shut your mouth, you know, somebody like your commander, you shut your mouth.
	That's right.
	That's all.
	Until you get to become a short timer.
	And then you can do all sorts of things that you couldn't do... Anyway, I stopped you.
	You were headed into another case.
	Go right ahead.
	Well, that was one case we got.
	The other one was on the 7th of April.
	I think it was a Tuesday night.
	A commercial airliner was flying from Chicago, O'Hare, down to Dallas.
	They were at 31,000 feet, reportedly, over Oswego, Kansas.
	Right.
	And they had, allegedly, according to the FAA who took the report, an object go right in front of them, from right to left.
	At their altitude, or a little bit above them, 31,000 feet again.
	And we got in contact with the airline with flight operations.
	Really?
	And they confirmed that the event had occurred, that the flight crew had declined any interest in submitting anything.
	Well, we don't want to report one of those things.
	Exactly.
	Uh-huh.
	Wow!
	We are in the process of assembling all of our data from the month of April.
	We're going to post it soon.
	Also, we're going to have our monthly meeting up here in the state of Washington this coming Saturday, the 9th of May, and I'm going to be presenting a lot of these data and a lot more than we can cover in an hour on this program that will give people a better understanding of what was going on all across the country.
	During last month, it was truly dramatic.
	I knew April was going to be a big month and it did not disappoint.
	Peter, my audience should know, if they don't, that you are a volunteer organization and they can make donations to you, right?
	That is correct.
	And I wish they would because you do good work.
	We are indebted to those many, many people who have sent Small checks to us that have made a big difference.
	Yeah, a buck or two, five bucks, whatever you can afford, folks.
	To Peter Davenport, or to, I guess, they'd make it out, what?
	To the National UFO Reporting Center.
	National UFO Reporting Center.
	And the address is?
	Is P.O.
	Box 45623, University Station, Seattle, Washington.
	And the zip code is 98145.
	And we're terribly indebted to those people who support us.
	We're sending out packets to those people who've contributed a little something to us.
	What's the zip code again, please?
	98145.
	Okay, I've learned this.
	If everybody has a piece of paper and a pencil, it's the National UFO Reporting Center.
	Stop me if I'm wrong.
	P.O.
	box 45623 University Station Seattle Washington 9814 Correct.
	Okay, good.
	Your work deserves supporting.
	And you can't do this kind of work on nothing, folks, so this is one time I'd recommend you help him out.
	One more cut I'd like to play if we could.
	Fire away.
	This is a particularly interesting one.
	This comes from Easter Sunday.
	That makes it, I guess, the 12th of April, if I'm not mistaken.
	A gentleman in Whiteville, North Carolina, was outside framing a house.
	He's a carpenter.
	And he put his tape measure up against a wall, and his eye was captured by something moving in the sky.
	And I'm just going to let him describe in his own words what he saw.
	This is a daytime sighting.

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