Art Bell

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June 8, 1998 - Art Bell

02:35:58

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Spirit Guides and Aliens - Brad Steiger

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43:00

brad steiger

01:20:39

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unidentified		To chunk with Art Bells in the Kingdom of Nye from outside the U.S., first dial your access number to the USA.
		Then, 800-893-0903.
		If you're a first-time caller, call ART at 702-727-1222.
		From east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico.
		Call ART at 1-800-618-8255.
		Or call ART on the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
		This is Coast to Coast AM from the Kingdom of Nigh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		Somebody just sent me a page.
		I'm going to have to see if I can get this on the web.
		It says Mobile Home Tornado Escape Pod, and it shows this guy with his chair and his beer and his TV and stuff.
		And he pulls one button, and the whole thing just a big circle that kind of drops down below ground where there is more beer and more TV.
		Dumb thing, but it's funny.
		Cat flying through the air.
		Two cats flying through the air.
		Cute.
		Good morning, everybody.
		Also, from Jim Birkland, check this out.
		Art, I just heard a news report about a 5.1 magnitude quake at Bishop tonight.
		This one is real.
		The Sierras are rocking.
		Full moon does it again.
unidentified		Jim Birkland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you are.
		And this, of course, in the background is The Voice of an Angel.
		Lorena McKenneth.
unidentified		Who I got to see up in Vancouver.
unidentified		Ooh, that was good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She's just as good in concert as she is here.
		All right, coming up in a moment, Mr. Strange, Brad Seiger, who has now authored 142 or 143 books he can't remember.
		The latest of which is Guardian Angels and Spirit Guides.
		The funny thing about being strange, and I'm a little strange too, as you well know, maybe more than a little.
		The funny thing about being strange is the world is catching up with us.
		All the things that I've talked about that have been regarded as strange in recent years are now showing up on the nightly news as a lead story, like the permanent weather change NBC talked about last night.
		So I don't know what that means.
		Maybe that means I've got to get stranger.
		All right.
		Brad Steiger's unlisted phone number is...
		Brad Steiger was born in Iowa on February 19th, 1936, of Norwegian, Danish, French ancestry.
		He has lived in New York, New Hampshire, Illinois, and Arizona, and then in 1992 returned to Iowa.
		He has written and written and written and written books.
		He has written, he's not sure, 142 or 143 books.
		There's a lot I could say about Brad Steiger.
		Most of you ought to just know him.
		Well, there's a whole lot I could say here.
		It all comes after his unlisted number.
		Anyway, here's Brad Steiger.
		Brad, hi.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
		Great to be with you again.
		Always fun and exciting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did I throw you a little scare there?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Just a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, great to have you.
		So many books, so many books.
		You know where I want to start?
		I want to start with somebody sent me an email.
		And they're remarking on your new book, apparently a new book called, maybe it's not so new, Alien Rapture?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		That's not quite out yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not quite out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's really new then, huh?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And we should also, just one little thing, because some of your people are saying, hey, I bought Guardian Angels and Spirit Guides three years ago.
		This is now the mass market.
		The little paperback size is coming out now.
unidentified		So that's originally a hardback.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		It was originally what we call trade paperback, which is like a hardcover without the hardcover.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, and so now it's softcover.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Now it's mass market paperback available in all your stores.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, Alien Rupture, that is a novel.
unidentified		Let me tell you what it's a novel, really?
unidentified		With any truth at the base of it?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		I served as the midwife for this particular work.
		A very brilliant gentleman named Ed Fouché, who was with Department of Defense, worked on a lot of black projects, worked in Area 51 and so forth, came to me with a rough version of a fictionalized account of his adventures as a SEAL and as a Special Forces individual.
		And we kind of combined a lot of characters with whom he worked on military and black projects and came up with, I think, a fantastically exciting novel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Looking at planes like the TR-3B.
		Right, right.
		You know, I've got to wonder, if you were a government guy doing secret black ops work and you were retired and you couldn't talk about it, you might write a fictional account and be able to say just about everything you want to say without getting in trouble.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, this gentleman has been a professional military Man, and he did go to JAG and say, How much trouble can I get because I've taken all these oaths?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		They said, As long as you don't write about a project you were involved in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		So, because he had a good number of compatriots, they kind of pooled their resources.
		I'm kind of telling a story out of school here right now, but they pooled their resources, and Ed served as the spokesperson.
		I will definitely see, my friend, that you get a copy as soon as it is off the press, and you should have Ed on the show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I will do that.
		I'm glad I was able to pull that from you.
		So this wasn't even publicly really announced till now, huh?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		No, it'll be out probably in another couple weeks, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You have written so many books that it suggests a gazillion topics to me.
		There's a lot going on right now, Brad.
		I said at the beginning of the hour here that I deal in the world of weird, and so do you.
		And to me, it looks like the mainstream press is beginning to catch up with the world of weird.
		I mean, it's getting as weird to watch the nightly news as it is to listen to my program a year or two ago.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I years ago had a radio show called Strange World of Branch Steiger.
		And it always began with the tagline that, you know, the world we all share.
		And, you know, it's not really strange.
		It's only strange from a particular perspective.
		And that perspective has now become broadened.
		As you said, my friend, people are starting to catch up with us.
		I also had a column called A Walk on the Weird Side, which I thought was kind of clever.
		And then a column that was, we got up to, oh, I guess, 87 papers and Japan and India and several foreign countries with my The Strange World of Brad Steiger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You wrote a book called Children of the Light, Children's Near-Death Experiences and How They Illuminate the Beyond.
		I'm really, really interested in that.
		Adults are one thing.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But children having near-death experiences, that's really something else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And in the research for that book, what did you discover about children and NDEs?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have to say that we contacted such as myself because I had a near-death experience.
		We talked about this before when I was 11.
		Yes.
		Which certainly I don't think anyone would argue changed the course of my life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that what brought you to write the book?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I think so.
		I think so.
		And Sherry also had a near-death experience when she was a child.
		So that led us to do that.
		But we, and again, I'm just not one of those individuals that criticize other researchers.
		But we saw a TV show, and they had a number of children who had had near-death experiences.
		And we felt almost embarrassed for the people because it seemed as though the children were just kind of feeding back or they were confused.
		And it made for very bad television.
		We decided, rightly or wrongly, but you know, you have to take a particular approach, that we would talk to adults who'd had, like we had, our lives changed by the experience and really put it in the context of how it had affected them.
		And now again, someone could argue, well, of course, now they're older, they might color, they might forget, they might add.
		But you know, there's something, I know my Native American friends and the shamans I have spent so much valuable time with say that when you receive a vision, the more you talk about it, the more you tell it, the more you bring back, the more you remember, the more you're able to share.
		And I think there's a great deal of truth in that.
		Because when you're an adult, whether it's 21 or 81, and you keenly remember, I mean, I remember the experience as vividly as if it had just occurred to me.
		And I can see, you know, of course, how it has influenced and what it has meant to me.
		So it is children's experiences, yes, but it is largely, though we do have some children and teenagers in there, but largely it's from the perspective of how this has really changed the person's life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know of anybody who's had one who has not had their life changed in one way or the other.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		In one way or another.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You mentioned Native Americans.
		A very interesting thing is occurring, Brad.
		For the first time, Native Americans, the full Hopi elders, for example, don't do broadcasts.
		They don't go on the air.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Robert Ghostwolf, who's kind of an intermediary for me, is now talking to two Hopi elders that we can't name yet.
		They're going to be on the air.
		They asked to actually come on the air on the 15th of this month.
		And here's a good bone chiller for you.
		The reason they want to come on the air is that prophecy, they say, is going to manifest itself in July, not next, this.
		In other words, next month.
		Time is so short, according to these elders, they feel that they have no choice but to go public.
		Pretty strange.
		And then the other day, I got a call from Gordon Michael Scallion, and he said, Art, we better do a show.
		We have to do a show because I have seen visions of massive earth changes in July.
		Freaked me out a little bit.
		Now, I'm not, what's your take on prophecy?
		In other words, do you think that knowledge of prophecy or something bad that's going to happen can be lessened in some way by the very knowledge of it?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		By knowledge of it.
		The analogy that I have used is we know that winter is coming.
		We would be foolish not to prepare for winter, But we cannot prevent winter from coming.
		So I know there's a whole new age contingent out there that says, you know, if we think really positive thoughts, these things will not happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I hear from them all the time.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		There may be some truth to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I doubt them myself.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		But as I've said, you know, if you're in an elevator with six people, 12 people, and the cable snaps, you're all going to fall no matter if some people say, I'm going to create my own reality, or I'm not going to participate, or I'm going to think very positive thoughts and change the outcome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're being very kind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are many who say that, and they would still be little puddles when it hits, right?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		That is true.
		That is true.
		Unless, again, some miraculous intervention occurs.
		And a miraculous intervention can always occur.
		And I think we remain open to those possibilities.
		But I've become convinced because of the time I have spent with Native Americans, the shaman, and I think you know that Sherry is part Chippewan.
		She was invited to one of the Kivas on the Hopi with the elders and was privileged to be one of few people allowed to participate in that.
		So she's really, of course, I don't know if there are any experts or authorities in this field, but I mean, she must rank up there very high.
		And with talking with her and talking it over, she's much firmer on that than perhaps I am, about that these things are truly going to happen.
		And the shaman and the wonderful medicine people with whom I am in touch, those who have brought me into their tribes, those who have initiated me into their medicine lodges, are really telling me the same thing.
		That these, it's, my friend Sunbear once said, it's like the earth mother is like a great dog.
		And from time to time, she just shakes her back and sends those fleas flying off.
		So it's not that the fleas are evil or nasty.
		It's not that we're wicked or nasty and we must be punished.
		It's simply a cosmic calendar has rolled around, and it's wintertime again, or translation, it is the time of upheaval, volcanisms, earthquakes, etc., etc.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These really are interesting times to me.
		I predicted this weather change.
		I was talking about it two or three years ago.
		And tonight, all of a sudden on NBC Lead Story is the weather may be changing profoundly.
		It may be changing permanently.
		It's the first time I've heard this said on network television the way they said it.
		And it's as though it is all upon us now.
		I mean, literally, we're there.
		We're there.
		We're in the middle of all of this, right?
		So it's like I've got to start covering it from a different point of view.
unidentified		Right.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, that's what's so strange that I talk to so many people because somehow when you're talking about it, excuse me, you still feel you're back in 1970, you know, when you first started really out there, you know, shaking the bushes with this message.
		And now all of a sudden it dawns on even those of us who have been out there chanting about it that we're there.
		We're there now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've written a lot about mysterious powers of the mind, ESP, that sort of thing, precognition.
		And what I think is happening is that, yeah, we're in the middle of it, but all of a sudden, a lot of people are knowing it inside of themselves to be true.
		They're having a sense about it.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		But that's what the great books of prophecy have always said, that at this time, you know, your young men shall have visions, your old men shall have dreams, and so forth.
		So we know that in this time of transition, the seeds of awakening are sprouting forth, you know, so abundantly and so strongly in so many people.
		I mean, people are just awakening.
		It's a marvelous time.
		It's an exciting time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The most sensitive first, the least sensitive, no doubt, last, or maybe not at all.
		But there is an awareness, a general awareness burgeoning everywhere.
		Do you think, well, you obviously don't think, that we can ameliorate this situation in any way with positive thoughts.
		We're going to be going to be a massive jelly on the bottom of the elevator floor.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, what we feel is every day is Judgment Day.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And how you prepare yourself is by living as noble and enriched and as spiritual life as you possibly can so that whatever happens, you are spiritually prepared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As if each day were the last.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because one day it will be.
		Yes, right.
		Here's another one that killed me.
		I was looking through.
		Brad sent me a list of all his books.
		And when did you write Sex and the Supernatural?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		You know, that is a book that's got me into more trouble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And yet, yet, psychiatrists, psychologists, sexologists, and some editors have said it's one of my finest works.
		It is a serious work that deals with the creative force.
		It deals with the expression of sexual energy and how it affects the paranormal.
		And again, I thought, oh, this was way back.
		This is way back art in the 60s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, listen, I believe it because whenever you talk about ghosts and polargeists, you talk about young teenage girls with raging hormones and all that sort of thing.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Exactly, but I got into mediumship.
		I got into everything.
		I will always remember, and bless Norman Mailer.
		I was on a panel show where everyone was just really socking it to me, but good old Norman stood by me and applauded the work and said he was going to run out right after the show and buy a copy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, maybe we'll talk more about it in a moment.
		Hold on, Brad.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		My guest is Brad Steiger, and we're going to be talking about the strange and the unusual this night with him, and that is right up his alley.
		It's what he's been doing all his life: Sex and the Supernatural.
		A Lance of Books, 1968.
		We'll have to ask about that.
		I'm Art Bell.
		is Coast to Coast AM.
		Coast to Coast AM Well, all right, back now to Brad Steiger.
		How about that, Brad?
		A 5.1 at Mammoth.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One day to be the land of a new volcano.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And St. Helens is acting up again, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I have heard a rumbling there, rumbling throughout the Northwest, volcanoes in Central America going off, Mount Popo down to Mexico, getting rid of it.
		Oh, it's really interesting.
		Yes, yes.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Now, right after the libido formula, we're talking about sex and the supernatural.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I very nearly made a comment during that commercial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sex and the supernatural.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, we were talking earlier about, you know, people catching up.
		Back in 1968, when I wrote that, of course, I also suggested or wrote about people who claimed that they had had sexual examinations aboard UFOs, that they had had forced sex above UFOs.
		And, of course, people just went crazy and called me all kinds of nasty names.
		And now, of course, that's a standard topic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, why not?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, in 1968, everybody was having sex with everybody anyway.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		But to suggest, you know, that this was happening as part of the UFO scene, you know, was just unheard of at that time.
		What was I trying to do?
		And why was I telling such things?
		Well, I was being told this by people I was interviewing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was any of it consensual?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was any of it consensual?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Consensual sex?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Some of it was, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because I have interviewed and made people angry by doing the interview.
		I interviewed a young lady who claimed she was having sex with an extraterrestrial lizard.
		That really drove people crazy.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Well, what I was hearing so much of at that time were young women, particularly, though there were some young men of different ages, but primarily young women who had witnessed a UFO overflight or had a close encounter,
		and then later, later, they were invaded and violated in their rooms, whether it was a college dorm or a home or an apartment or a hotel, and told these stories.
		They sent, oh, some of them even sent, you know, I'm a Dean's List student, here's my great points, and sent me all sorts of things to show that, you know, they just weren't flakes, that they had really had this type of extraordinary experience.
		So I wrote about it at that time, but I say they, you know, people weren't ready yet to hear that.
		They weren't ready to hear about that aspect of the UFO mystery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you called it supernatural.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you mixing UFOs into the supernatural pot?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've always put everything into the same pot because I think we're dealing with a single source phenomenon.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		That drives people crazy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do too.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I think it is all aspects of one grand phenomenon.
		But people, well, I just had a remarkable thing happen here.
		I suddenly, the Des Moines Register, the big state paper here, they have an Iowa quiz every week.
		And on my mother calls all excited because I am the Iowa quiz.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, you're kidding.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		No, where is Brad Steiger's hometown, the author of, get this now?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		140 books on science fiction and religion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And religion.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Now, my very first science fiction book is coming out this month, Alien Rapture.
		I have never written any science fiction, but I recognize that I am difficult to label.
		Some years ago, someone interviewed me and called me a science faction writer.
		Well, that's kind of cute, but it doesn't have a great deal of meaning for a lot of people.
		So I recognize I don't fit the categories, but no, I've always seen it as a single source phenomenon.
		I see the relationship between every one of those 140 topics I see as chapters of one great book or as facets of one great phenomenon.
		But people don't like that.
		They want to split you into this and split you into that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is so strange that you should say this.
unidentified		And now, back to the best of Art Bell.
unidentified		From the Kingdom of Nye, Coast to Coast AM continues with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you think of the HBO series?
unidentified		I thought it was great.
		It was, you know, I mean, there were high spots and low spots.
		I thought the stuff that Tom Hanks directed was excellent.
		And the other stuff was really good, too.
		There were some of the, I guess it was, what was it, eight hours altogether or ten?
		I would say 75% of it.
		Yeah, 75% of it was really good, I thought.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I thought just occasionally they began to stray from the technical.
		They were a little light on some of the technical side of it, particularly with respect to Apollo 13.
		They could have done a lot more there, as the movie Apollo 13 demonstrated.
		Yeah, but all in all, it was good.
		It was fascinating.
		It was well done.
unidentified		And do you think it was pretty much accurate?
		I think it was as accurate as they could make it.
		In other words, there were some distortions in The Harrison Storm story and the Apollo Fire story, but of the Kingdom of Nigh,
		your listening to the best of Coast to Coast AM with Arc Beth, recorded from an earlier broadcast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was talking to a person who gives a lot of money.
		He's a gazillionaire in Las Vegas, and he gives grants for studies of things like this.
		And we were talking extensively the other day, and he was wondering how best to give this money out, to pursue areas of study that would be productive in life after death and ubiology and all the rest of it.
		And I said, well, let me tell you something.
		Number one, I think that we're dealing with the same thing.
		It's all the same thing.
		Somehow or another.
		It may be extra dimensionality.
		It may be who knows what it is, but whatever it is, it's a single source of something we all don't yet understand.
		And he said, oh, I agree completely.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, that makes three of us that.
unidentified		Yeah, it does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then he said, what do you think I could?
		I said, I'll tell you, here's what you could spend money on.
		Do another Brookings report.
		You know, the Brookings report originally way back was 30 years ago now.
		Right.
		Said that we couldn't handle the truth if it were dropped on our heads, whatever it is.
		And I can think that if you were to do another full study at Brookings, you would come up with the same result today.
unidentified		Probably.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That if whatever it is, whether there was a prior civilization, whether we didn't get here on Earth as we are said to have come here, Adam and Eve and all the rest of it, if something showed up that said all that wasn't true, we couldn't handle it.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, people have said to me, and some people say it in an accusatory manner, some people say it in an attitude of wonderment.
		How can you, okay, and here we're talking now, the new book, Guardian Angels and Spirit Guides, Sex in the Supernatural, Other Worlds of the Universes, Gods of Aquarius, Native American Medicine Power.
		I mean, how can you write about so many different things?
		Well, as I said, to me, they are all facets of the marvelous exploration that we as spiritual entities are permitted to engage in here on planet Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think guardian angels are?
		I mean, what are they?
		Where are they sourced?
		Are they really angels?
		Are they really from the other side?
unidentified		Are they really here to help us?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, here again now, when we answer that, we have to answer in regard to various cosmological reference points, depending upon our audience and to whom precisely we are speaking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're speaking to people who are...
		No, I'm sorry.
		I didn't mean to interrupt.
		I said when you're talking to my audience, you're talking to people who are open-minded and ready to listen.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		They will accept why I put guardian angels and spirit guides together because a lot of people were upset with that.
		You see, strictly speaking, spirit guide is associated with, well, with the Native American tradition, with our totem.
		Spirit guide is what mediums say they have that takes them to the other side to get their sources.
		And angels, of course, come from the heavenly kingdom.
		I put them together in saying, we don't know.
		I mean, who are we to be that presumptuous, though many of us are, to make the separation?
		I'm saying that when from the other side or from the unseen world we receive a benevolent assistance, then that is serving the same function.
		Now, in the book, I also put in all the cautions about we don't worship them, we don't pray to them, and I have learned so much.
		I've already said it once tonight, but the time I've spent with shamans from different tribes.
		And there, it's a dictum that when you go on your vision quest and you receive your guide, you don't then call upon your guide, you know, help me with this guide.
		No, I need a little help here.
		Help me find a parking place.
		That is not what a guide is for.
		It is simply then your assistance or your symbol or your contact on the other side.
		The same way I have had, and I write about in the book, the appearance of angels or guides in my life.
		I can't control this.
		I wouldn't presume to try.
		I wouldn't, and there have been times I would like to say, I need a little help here, guys.
		But the help has come, and in a number of instances, by entities that are just as solid as any physical entity could possibly be, to the point, as I write in the book, the first time this happened to me, I tried to punch.
		I tried to punch the figure.
		And it was that solid, and it took me that much by surprise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you delineate between angels and guides?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe they're the same thing?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I believe they are the same thing, and I give the same accounts and the same cautions and the same advice in regard to interacting with them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, your wife is an ordained Presbyterian minister.
		Sherry is that, right?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Baptist, yesterday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Baptist, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Baptist.
unidentified		Well, then, how people ask about that, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course they do.
		I mean, when you write About when we're sitting here wondering about the source of guardian angels and spirit guides, then there have got to be conversations that take place in the Steiger household about which they are and how to portray them.
		Yes.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		The one thing that Sherry will always insist is that we put in the cautions about we do not seek, we do not pray to, we do not worship.
		She's very firm about the biblical admonitions.
		And I find those same admonitions in all cultures.
		They are not unique to the Judeo-Christian.
		As a Native American shaman told me, if you summon a spirit, the spirit will want something in return.
		Okay, now that's not a guide.
		That's not an angel.
unidentified		That is a youth car dealer.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Pardon me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The youth car dealer.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, who wants your soul in exchange.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to tell you something and get your reaction to this, and I hope you didn't hear the show or hear about it so I can get your reaction.
		I did a show with a guy not long ago that I just can't shake.
		His name was Matthew Alper.
		And he wrote a book called The God Part of the Brain.
		The contention is really simple.
		Brad, it is that through the process of evolution, he believes in evolution.
		And it's possible to believe in evolution and creation simultaneously, I've always thought.
		But through the process of evolution, because we are mortal beings and because we live a very short time and our greatest fear is death, that the brain, as a natural evolutionary function, developed what he calls the God part of the brain or the worship part of the brain.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		The God module.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The God module, whatever you want to call it, as a defensive mechanism against death.
		And sure enough, we discovered another new tribe, I think, today down in South America in the rainforest, what's left of it.
		And all of them worship something.
		Even if they've not had any contact with anybody with Bible proselytizing or anything else, or in the Eastern religion or anything else, everybody believes in something.
		And I just haven't been able to shake the reasoning behind that.
		It seems fairly solid to me.
		It would be a natural reaction for the brain to develop this, wouldn't it?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's fascinating because that is an evolutionary process.
		And I've seen some preliminary aspects of this work with the God module, the God part of the brain.
		It makes a great deal of sense that we would have been programmed by a divine intelligence to have that receptor within us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And I think we're going to find out more and more as we really find out who we really are and what our function really is, which again, some of us have had some through a glass darkly visions.
		None of us certainly have wiped away the smudge from that glass and seen a clear view yet.
		But we're getting bits and pieces and we're putting them together as long as we stay open and loving and share our research without thinking it's mine and becoming, you know, totally greed as, you know, the downfall of civilization and humanity on a day-to-day personal basis and on a civilization basis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how does Brad Steiger know, or does Brad Steiger know, that the guardian angels or spirit guides, whichever you want to call them or both, come from truly and absolutely an external source and not from the God spot in Brad's brain?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I've wrestled with that all of my life.
		And I have been, I don't say I'm special, but I have been blessed by having external physical manifestations that I give thanks in my prayers.
		And, you know, people can say delusion or whatever, but I know.
		And, you know, it's that noetic quality.
		The strongest, passionate UFO advocates I know are those that 10 years ago called me an idiot and now they've had a personal experience and no one can convince them that they had to see the UFO or a ghost or a spirit or whatever.
		The people who have had that dramatic fall on the road to Damascus conversionary experience.
		But again, the experiences I have had, the out-of-body experiences, the near-death experience, the manifestation of these entities have convinced me.
		Now, I also know in my mind, because I try to be totally honest with myself as I try to be with others, that there have been instances where I think it is that God spot.
		I think it is my, well, we translate that by saying our higher self now, don't we?
		Or some higher aspect that is guiding me.
		And that's pretty darn neat, too, when you think about it.
		And when I get letter after letter after letter, I make no judgment.
		But when I read some, I to myself think, well, that was probably the higher self.
		That was probably the godspot.
		That was part of the subconscious and the same mechanism that we have in dreams.
		But everything's striving for our survival and for our perpetuation that keeps us moving forward.
		So I think it is both, but I do, I have to say, believe that there is also the external.
		Now, whether these entities come from heaven, another dimension, whether they're, I think they're probably paraphysical.
		They are physical in our dimension, but they can also leave our dimension very quickly.
		So they are paraphysical, multi-dimensional.
		I believe in beings of both benevolence and enmity toward us in the unseen world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, by the way, I noticed You've written a number of books about UFOs, and a lot of them seem to suggest that you know these little people, whoever they are, or the tall ones, are not so friendly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I could go through your book titles here, but a lot of them seem to lean toward the possibility of the negative.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		That was earlier in my exploration.
		There's a lot of this feel, Art, that who you are is what you get.
		And I began to discover that in my research, that if you thought you're going to encounter a bug-eyed monster, then you will.
		Then that's the way the phenomenon will present itself, because that's the way you will understand it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that suggests it is the monster from the id, then.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I think a large part it is, but it is also, I believe, an intelligence that is using our archetypes and our monster from the id to communicate because that is the way it thinks that particular individual will best understand it and accept it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what I've often wondered about?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would the world be like if suddenly we actually broke through, if the barrier between where we are now and where all these things come from actually broke down completely?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, I am haunted by the encounter I had when I was five years old, and I saw, I caught an entity unawares looking in the kitchen window at my parents.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, we will expand on that after the top of the hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got a good break here, so relax.
unidentified		And these are the things that change our lives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Brad's experience, the one you're about to hear about, for me, for my wife, it was an extremely close encounter with a large triangular UFO directly above us.
		Could have thrown a rock at the damn thing, silently passing above us.
		I mean, once you have seen one of these things or something like this, there is nobody, nobody who can tell you it didn't happen because it did.
		I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		From the Kingdom of Nye, across the country, around the world, and throughout the universe, this is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell on the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We were discussing what makes believers out of people, and what does it is personal experiences.
		For me, it was a triangular craft in the sky.
		For Brad Seiger, it began at about five years of age, Brad.
unidentified		Yes, yes.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And as just to underscore what you said, and I made reference to it earlier, once a person has a personal experience, then all the intellectualisms and all the targon just fade away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, people can say, all right, you're only five years old.
		Maybe it was a dream, whatever.
		I'm not going to argue that, because if it were a dream, you know, I'm 62 years old now, and it is obviously the most vivid, one of the most vivid experiences of my childhood, and certainly a dream that I remembered, but it was not a dream.
		It was October.
		There were dry leaves.
		We lived in a farm near a very small little town in Iowa.
		I heard footsteps approaching.
		And again, if you live in a city, that's not a big deal to hear someone walking outside your window at night.
		But when you live out in the plains, you do not get midnight visitors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When I hear footsteps, I grab a gun.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, you're out again out in the open.
		That's right.
		So, but again, some people say, well, what's the thing?
		You know, maybe it was the neighbor.
		Well, our neighbor, you see, was quite some distance away.
		At any rate, I heard footsteps, and then I heard the washtub.
		We didn't have running water at that time.
		We didn't have electricity at that time.
		So it was the kerosene lamp.
		I heard a washtub being dragged over to the kitchen window.
		And I was sitting on the edge of my bed.
		Do you have to visualize now kind of an L-shaped farmhouse?
		And my mother finally conceded because she's always worried that I stay up all night.
		And I reminded her, even as a little boy, you couldn't get me to bed.
		I've always been a night person.
		So I'm sitting on the edge of my bed, unable to sleep.
		It's dark.
		And when I sat on the edge of my bed, I could watch my parents, because it's L-shaped, and the kitchen's in the leg or the bottom of the L. So I can, you know, it's kind of like an early form of television.
		I could see my parents in the kitchen and kind of eavesdrop on them.
		So I saw then this, first I thought it was a little man with a big hat, and then as I stared at the back of his head, I guess that's that same thing, you know, as you stare at the back, they slowly turn.
		He slowly turned and I saw it wasn't a hat, it was just a long head.
		And he turned then to look directly at me, and I saw those eyes, and they were, again, I can't say color, I can't say, because this is the light from a kerosene lamp coming through the window.
		But it was a dark person, a dark entity, and the eyes were extremely large.
		They reminded me of a cat's eyes.
		And then those eyes got larger and larger and larger until the only thing in the universe were those eyes.
unidentified		Oh boy.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And the next thing I knew, it was morning.
		Now, when I told my parents that I had seen an elf, which is what I had thought I'd seen, my advantage was, again, of Danish extraction, and my mother, whether tis true or not, has always believed passionately she is directly descended from Hans Christian Andersen.
		So she then thought that I simply had inherited great Uncle Hans's imagination.
		Now, a lot of people think my mother is right.
		I have inherited a great imagination.
		But what that did for me, of course, at that early age, I felt that I had seen and caught something I wasn't supposed to see, and I had been able to see it, and that has driven me all of my life.
		And I am convinced someday I'm going to encounter that being again.
		I am going to catch up with him again.
		You may.
		And a fascinating thing happened.
		Oh, now it's probably 10 years ago.
		Sherry and I were in Sedona, and a friend of ours does some very fine artwork.
		And Lou said, come to my art show.
		And I had told this story, of course, to friends and at lectures and so forth.
		And I came walking in and I saw a sculpture that was exactly, or as close as it could, to the entity I saw when I was five years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, that would freak me out.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		It did freak me out.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And I said, especially in three-dimensional and in a statue.
unidentified		He also had a painting, but the statue just freaked me out.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And I said, Lou, did you do that for my description?
		He looked at me and said, oh, yeah, yeah.
		And he says, no, I was commissioned to do that by a woman from California.
		Well, then, as it sometimes happens in real life, always happens in the movies, but sometimes happened in real life, this woman came walking in.
		Now, incredibly, we had never met.
		But when we began to talk, I said, that's the entity I saw when I was five.
		She says, that's the entity I saw when I was five.
		She was a child in the neighboring town in Iowa.
		And on that October night, we had, I won't say seen the same, but we had seen each scene an entity like that.
		It had totally changed and influenced her life from the age of five.
		She left Iowa then.
		The family moved to California.
		We meet all these years later and share a childhood, a common childhood experience that happened on an October night, 40-some, 50-some, whatever now years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think that entity wanted?
unidentified		What do you think that its purpose was?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Boy, I've had all kinds of theories presented to me, like checking up on certain little children that were growing, you know.
		I don't know.
		It would only be conjecture.
		But that and then my near-death experience when I died at age 11, you know, having those two experiences happen at age 5 and age 11, you know, just again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Set you on a course.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I mean, just totally.
		And so that, again, I emphasize, I do not feel special, but I feel so blessed.
		I had answered for me, are we alone in the universe?
		I had that answered at age five.
		No, we are not alone either in other dimensions, other universes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't think it came from the God spot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think it was absolutely external.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I think it was absolutely external.
		I will always believe that.
		Again, the experience I recounted earlier was the being was hooded.
		So I'm calling the spirit, guide, angel, whatever that appeared to me, has appeared to me now three, maybe four times in my life externally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that before you die that there will be proven in the world that these things are real?
		That you will not have to have a personal experience to know it, that there will be either a scientific or a metaphysical breakthrough.
		And I have no idea what direction it will come from.
		And as I said before, all the barriers, or at least some of the barriers, will suddenly drop, and we will actually establish contact with whatever it is.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		That is my dream.
		That is my mission.
		I don't know if it will ever be realized.
		Maybe it is, as Goethe said, that the journey is more important than the goal.
		I was groomed all of my life to be, all of my young life, to be a Lutheran minister.
		And I really felt that was my calling.
		And I remember on graduation day when the Bible department came and said, well, we have the seminary, it's all set.
		And I had to tell those dear, wonderful pastors from the Bible department that that wasn't going to be my path.
		I had changed my mind because I wanted desperately at that time, remember I'm only 21 years old, I wanted to establish proof.
		I wanted to prove what they were talking about from the pulpit.
		And I felt at that time I could not be satisfied with simply preaching these truths.
		I had to prove and demonstrate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's still, it hasn't changed, has it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you still today could not accept that and move in that path because you still haven't proven it.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		And I've realized I've given that up.
		I have resigned as caretaker of the universe.
		I realize now that all I can do to the best of my ability art is to present what excites me, present what interests me in the form of books, in the forms of radio shows like this, where we're reaching people.
		That's all I can do.
		I cannot prove it to anyone.
		They have to have that subjective personal experience.
		And I can't make that happen for people.
		I can only present it so that vicariously maybe people will absorb it, or vicariously they will have it become part of their lives.
		Or they will be inspired or stimulated or provoked into seeking the spiritual truths for themselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Last hour, you and I kind of agreed.
		You took a little bit of a shot at the New Agers who say that these earth changes that we seem to be on the edge of can be modified or even erased by good thoughts and good vibrations and all the rest of it.
		And you gave us the analogy of the elevator.
		And people could rationalize all kinds of things on the way down.
		But when they hit the bottom, it still splatsville, right?
		All right, well, I've got a facts here.
		I want to read you, and then I'll get your reaction.
		Art, I have always respected Mr. Steiger's flat-footed hopefulness, if not optimism.
		So to hear him side with the pessimistic viewpoint is somewhat disturbing.
		I must say, I've always perceived pessimists as being emotional children who really want to think of the future in rose-colored glasses, but whose world falls so short of their hopes, they live in a kind of constant dark night of the soul.
		I'm a clinical depressive, a Cherokee Celtic person.
		In other words, I am surprised each day when I wake to find the world still in one piece.
		We spend our lives with one foot in Armageddon, fearing the warring violence around us.
		I do not believe in God.
		I do not believe in a divinity which shapes our ends.
		I am an agnostic pragmatist.
		All I see around me is chaos on the edge of night.
		I have no choice but to consciously adopt an attitude of optimism that perhaps we'll get by, that maybe we'll survive to fight another day.
		This has been all that has sustained the tribal peoples throughout generations.
		It's the only reason we continue to fight on, or else we'd resign ourselves, as did Chief Joseph, to fight more forever.
		I often wonder why art is so anti-optimistic.
		Is it perhaps he sees something in us that is really in himself?
		Does he want to see the world as having once been a world of grace and gentleness?
		This has always been a planet of the apes.
		Only a sentimentalist can look at the human past and see anything but a swath of chaos with few but shining instances, excuse me, of human decency.
		It's that decency that allows me to continue to wake up every morning.
		That's what I mean by optimism.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, anybody who knows me knows that I am, as he has always believed me to be, a cockeyed optimist.
		I will never change my optimism in my faith in the human, the indomitable human spirit.
		However, he mentioned the word pragmatist there.
		If we're not making too many, of course, the English language allows us to put all kinds of words together.
		So I am probably a pragmatic optimist.
		I have recognized, through my own intense optimism, that has many times had me knocked flat on my geister, that we must also, we cannot lose sight of consensual reality.
		I believe in a separate reality, certainly.
		And I believe it is that separate reality we can enter into that gives us our strength and our purpose.
		But we also live in a consensual reality, a reality that we share with others.
		So I maintain the optimism, but I realize it must be tempered, it must be flavored with what is.
		We must accept the world as it is, and then we enter with our optimism and try to do our damnedest to change it.
		But we can only do that by example, and I think it has to be an example that makes some kind of consensual sense to others.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can't imagine how you can be a cockeyed optimist and a pragmatist at the same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The two seem to be in complete opposition to each other.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what I say in the English language.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		We're just allowed to make all kinds of combinations and conjunctions and blending.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Present events.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		In other words, I know that certain things are going to happen.
		I maintain my optimism that we will survive.
		But to say that these things are not going to happen and that bad things don't happen to good people, or that just sometimes the world seems like such a murat, such a dismal swamp, but we will survive.
		That's where my optimism.
		But I do not deny that these bad things happen and are going to happen and happen to each of us.
		As I say, every day is Judgment Day.
		Every day is a test day.
		And like Emerson said in the great laws of compensation, we try to do our best to see that we win maybe a few more than we lose, or at least we keep a balance.
		Balance is the important thing, that we balance then our optimism with our realism, with our pragmatism.
		And I think that keeps us on a steady course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the only reason that I think I may be somewhat pessimistic is I interview people from all stripes.
		I interview Catholic priests who have advised popes.
		I interview remote viewers.
		I interview prophets like Gordon tomorrow night.
		I interview Native Americans.
		And it absolutely blows me away because they're all virtually Saying roughly the same thing, and it ain't good.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		But, and I recognize all those same things.
		And I've gone through this, I mean, the lectures, time after time, where someone will say, oh, but, and then will call me.
		How do you call?
		Again, these things will happen, but we must keep our indomitable spirit strong.
		We must recognize that to be a human being is a marvelous thing that most of us haven't even begun to touch the capacity and the abilities that we have to get through this dismal swamp.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Brad, hold on.
		We'll be right back.
		It is the bottom of the hour.
		Shortly, we are going to open lines.
		If you'd like to speak with Brad Steiger, I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast A.M. This is Art Belt, host of Ghost to Ghost AF.
unidentified		We'll have the news before the media.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll take the call, talk about headlines, UFOs, supernatural events, whatever's on your mind.
		All right, it's kind of right in line with what we've been talking about.
		Brad, you wrote a book called True Ghost Stories and another one called The World Beyond Death.
		And both of them would seem to try and dip down into this pool of proof.
		And, you know, as you wrote them and as you listened to people that you interviewed, did it convince you?
		I mean, aside from your own personal experiences, True Ghost Stories, The World Beyond Death, Ghosts Among Us, boy, you wrote and wrote and wrote about all of this.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, to me, as I said earlier, excuse me, having had the near-death experience, I had answered for me personally, is there something within us that survives physical death?
		And I had that answered for me in the affirmative when I was 11 years old.
		I saw, you know, again, my spirit essence moving toward the light and then returning to the body.
		And so I had that proven to me.
		So when I began the research and listened to others, I do not judge, but there are certain things you listen for.
		There are certain things that people will say or a certain intensity, which isn't 100% proof probably to a lot of people.
		But when you are an experiencer, when you have had an experience, there's a certain kind of rapport, there's a certain kind of feeling.
		And certainly then as I interview people and hear that, or hear their experiences, hear their subjective, how it affected them, their families, and so forth, I'm not saying that someone couldn't deceive me.
		I'm not saying that at all.
		But when you spend time with someone and kind of get into their essence, you have that knowing again that this has been a true experience for them.
		Some people have had, I've mentioned before that I had that incredible experience of seeing the geometric figures, and I've encountered others then who have had that same encounter with the vivid geometric figures.
unidentified		go on by brad and let me stop you right there
unidentified		And now, back to the best of Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I too have considered this as a possible solution, and I'll tell you what I think is wrong, and maybe you can give me your argument.
		It seems to me that as you went right down the road where I would go, a lot of drug users in America today, cocaine, heroin, marijuana, whatever, they would surprise you.
		They're the people that you know.
		They're the people down the street.
		They're the people that function.
		They do a little Coke on the weekends.
		They go to work.
		They don't get all consumed and driven into the habit, lose their homes and all the rest of that.
		They really are casual, functioning users in society, and they continue to work and do all things everybody else.
unidentified		Now, from the Kingdom of Nye, more ghost-to-ghost AM with Art Bell.
unidentified		Here again is Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tomorrow night when I interview Gordon Scallion, he's one of the ones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if you know his story or not.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		To some degree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He suddenly lost his voice in the middle of a million-dollar presentation, business presentation.
		I mean, just flat went.
		They took him to the hospital.
		He saw geometric patterns during that night in the hospital.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And a complete series of geometric patterns.
		And then he began to acquire this ability to see various possible futures.
		And so I would ask you, what do you think these geometric patterns are trying to say to us?
		What do they mean?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
		I think they're almost living designs.
		I think they're almost living symbols that pulsate with a lifelike, if it's not life, it's a lifelike energy.
		And I think there is an instant communication that goes to the very essence of oneself.
		And then you will remember things as you progress.
		I think it's, you know, just some of the inspirations and illumination experiences that I've had, others have had.
		Again, there is so much that is given so fast that the human brain cannot possibly within a moment relay it.
		But it may take you years.
		It may take you the rest of your life.
		So I think especially those of us who had that as children, I think are deciphering or remembering or being activated.
		We were activated, excuse me, and we are remembering throughout the course of our lives.
		I may have been given all 280 books or however many I write when I was 11 years old.
		I may have been given the topic, the theme, the idea, and I am remembering.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you wonder about that frequently?
unidentified		Yes, I do.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And again, you wonder why me, you know, that big question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder that about myself all the time.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		I mean, in the last few years, few years, I have had so many of my close friends pass on.
		And again, every time you're at the funeral, you're thinking, you know, that could just as easily be me.
		We're the same age.
		We had the same experiences.
		They were vibrant, wonderful people and full of life and energy.
		And again, we were talking earlier about pessimism, optimism.
		I guess what really works for me, and Sherry and I use this all the time, this is schoolhouse earth.
		We are here to learn certain lessons.
		No one said it's going to be easy.
		No one said it's going to be a snap to pass the test.
		But we are learning, we are gaining, we are growing through our life experiences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If we were to be graded today on the old school grading system, ABCDEF, what do you think today's grade would be?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		As a species?
		Oh, you know, when the year 2000, here again, you know, my idealism, when I started out, age 21, I have my mission, I'm going to prove this, I'm going to prove that.
		I thought by the year 2000, then the new Renaissance was going to come, that there would be no bigotry, there would be no prejudice, there would be no greed, there would be no war, there would be no pollution.
		And I see all these things.
		And there again, what makes it work for me, Art, is this schoolhouse earth.
		Not everyone passes.
		Some people are going to have to go back and start over until they get it right.
unidentified		Well, that was like a political answer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you were to issue a grade today, collectively, to society.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you really want me to give a grade today?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I clearly want you to give it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I think it'd be difficult to give it for all of society.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		If you were just looking at society as we see it every day, you'd probably have to say D minus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		D minus.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		But then there are always the A students.
		There are always the C students.
		There are always the B students.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the average.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Who will bring the average up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You wrote another called Voices from Beyond.
		Do they prove survival?
		Do they?
unidentified		Well, I think so.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was in that book?
		That I am quite curious about.
		Voices from Beyond, as in recorded voices, as in voices that people simply hear.
unidentified		What kind of voices, Brad?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yes, all of the above.
		But here again, see, I come back where we were before art.
		And I used to, I spent a lot of time going to spiritualist camps and sitting in mediumistic circles and so forth.
		And I frustrated many, many people because I would say, but yet it could be a capacity of the human mind.
		So I debate this throughout the entire book.
		Are we actually making contact with the spirit world or do some people have the ability to tune into, whether you call it, Akashic records or vibrations or things we don't even know yet?
		Impressions somehow in the woodwork we don't know.
		I always have that dichotomy.
		Is it the human mind in the incredible reach of the human mind or are it now disembodied intelligences?
		And I guess I have to say it can be both and it's very difficult to distinguish.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Between the two.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Between the two, but I think I have encountered or recorded or interviewed or asked enough or found enough or explored enough to say that yes, there are genuine communications, but we have to be very cautious.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		We have to be very cautious that we know exactly with what we are communicating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, your personal experiences aside, what do you consider to be the best evidence of life after death?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		They are those cases where information is given that ostensibly no living human would have known.
		Where a will is hidden, where an insurance policy is hidden, where some particular document or whatever.
		A message then comes through, gives explicit directions where something can be found, and it is located there.
		Now, again, someone could say, but could that be the incredible reach of the human mind?
		Well, you know, you can go on and on with that.
		But it would seem to me in cases like that, where information is disclosed that was not known consciously or unconsciously by any living being, that it does prove communication.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was speaking with a doctor the other night about near-death experiences, and he was absolutely convinced they are real.
		And he gave me several instances of people who have risen above their bodies and were able to read things that they could not possibly have known.
		Heard conversations that went on, all the rest of it.
		They could not possibly have known.
		These people absolutely were out of their bodies.
		And out of body is something I think we talked about on a previous show.
		We talked to it in some detail.
		But you definitely believe, don't you, it's possible to leave your body?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
		I believe it happens naturally.
		I think with cautions, I'm continually being asked by people, how do I do it, how do I do it?
		And I think that can be dangerous.
		I don't like to have people sitting there, you know, trying to.
		I think these things, all of these things, I think, are very natural.
		They are what it is to be human.
		And if we simply, you know, allow ourselves to be, yes, I do present exercises and techniques that will encourage.
		Now, that's all I say is encourage.
		Because it really, one thing I see lacking, pardon me, I'm 62 now, so I'm getting a little grumpy.
		But I do see a lack of discipline among a lot of people today.
		A lack of true scholarship and just the desire to really work and to achieve this whole instantaneous wish fulfillment that our society is locked into does depress and upset me sometimes.
		I think we cannot have these gifts of the spirit.
		Oh, yes, yes, yes.
		There is always the turning the corner and having the beam of light like Saul on the road to Damascus.
		But most of the people have the monastic living in the cell, working at it, achieving it, disciplining, studying years and years and years before those things are achieved.
		So, again, they cannot be rushed.
		They cannot be pushed.
		You can't take a rosebud and pick it open and make it bloom before it's time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but if you can really leave your body, then all the rest of it is true, too.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think so.
		And I think this is the great capacity that the human being has.
		And it has been said that this, above all other phenomenon, this is the crux.
		This is the essence of it.
		If the human spirit can leave the body before death, then, as you said, this is the apex.
		This proves it all.
		This establishes it all.
		And I believe that people who have had near-death experiences, out-of-body experiences, have their own personal proof.
		And once you have had that personal proof, again, as we were saying, no one can dissuade you.
		No one can present an argument that makes sense because you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, you see, I haven't had that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've seen this triangular UFO up close, but I don't know where it's from.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I was chatting with a doctor the other night, and I said, we were talking about if you had enough money to do research and ethics and morality wasn't a problem.
		You know, you can clinically kill somebody.
		Well, you can.
		And if you've got a good medical team there, you can clinically kill them for quite a good period of time, bringing them back with a reasonable amount of assurance of coming back.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		You've seen Flatliners, I'm sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, I mean, that's a movie, but the reality is it can be done.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I asked him if he would like to do that kind of research, and he said, you bet.
		He said, you bet.
		And if I were presented with that opportunity, I might try it.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, a dear friend who was a mentor to me, he's passed on and made the final transition.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		He did do that with a team of doctors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He did?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And that's what proved it to him.
unidentified		He has...
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Where is it?
		I'm trying to see it, I think, beyond the light.
		Oh, where is it?
		Where is it?
unidentified		Well...
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, anyway...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were saying he really did it?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did he manage to talk a doctor or a team into that?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, he died in an automobile accident.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Quote, unquote, died.
unidentified		They had the shroud over him.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		They had wheeled him down to the morgue.
		And he came back.
		And he said, I have just had the most marvelous journey.
		And I've seen things.
		And I saw my body.
		And I saw you picking me up.
		And I saw you working on me, he said to his doctor friends.
		And so then, because they were all of a mind, they were all friends, they were all adult, and they said, let's try it.
		And, you know, here again, I'm not endorsing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I'm simply saying that he tried it.
		It's an astonishing, extraordinary book.
		And he has passed on now.
		As I said, he was certainly a mentor to me in my early years.
		A dead ringer for Claude Rains, the actor.
		I mean, it's just the white hair.
		I mean, just so close.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's an incredible story.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And I mentioned it in my One with the Light.
		I have a chapter on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And his experience?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, he went to different, I mean, you know, here again, people will accept or reject, as you will, listeners.
		He went to other dimensions.
		He went to, you know, explore whether you want to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		to call it heaven or the other side or he made contact with other entities he put a lot of it in the book and then a lot of it of course was shared with all-night discussions over coffee the only thing that that would keep me from it I think would be the thought of an angry creator who would Sort of tell me you have tempted and played in an area that is mine, so you want to die, huh?
		Okay, fine, you're dead.
		And that would be that.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's kind of a scary twilight zone.
		My dear friend and mentor had been, I think this, whatever this means, he had been reared in the Native American tradition, the Winnebago tradition.
		He had gone on his vision quest.
		He had received his guide as a young man.
		And I think that probably prepared him and gave him the courage to undergo a medically controlled series of experiments.
		And especially after he had died in the morgue, covered up with a cloth and came back.
		I think he saw this as part...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did he say he duplicated the experience, in other words, the natural?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He did.
unidentified		Well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, I know.
		It's almost dangerous for us to be even talking about this on here, I'm sure.
		But it's all we're discussing this academically, at least.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Right.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		His book is privately published.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, is it really?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, he published just a few copies himself so that there would be a record.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And like I say, I do make reference to it in my book, One With a Light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have a copy of that, do you?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Of One With a Light?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of his private.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Are you hinting?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe a little.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		For you, anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on, Brad.
		That's Brad Steiger.
		I'm Art Bell, and we'll be right back.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell, and we'll be right back.
		Let me do the wind blow.
		Watch the sun rise.
		From the Kingdom of Nigh, this is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell.
		First-time callers may reach Art at area code 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Now, here again is Art.
		And if you don't love me now, you'll never love me again.
		And just hear you say it, words never break again, I'm afraid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		My guest is Brad Spiker, and we're going to phones with Brad in a moment.
		Tomorrow night, Gordon Michael Scallion, tell your friends, Gordon Michael Scallion, tomorrow night.
		And then Wednesday night, we're going to have Dean Morrow on, and the subject is going to be the truster.
		Invented by the Israelis, and I have a working model.
		This incredible device will tell you whether somebody you're talking to on the phone is telling you the truth or not with an 85 percentile guaranteed success rate.
		It's going to change the world.
		And I'm not sure in a better, for a better or worse way.
		I guess it depends on, like everything else, how it's used.
		Back now to Brad Seiger.
		Brad, before we just leave it completely flatliners, was a really cool movie.
		But they, of course, it was Hollywood, and they had to have the awful thing from the attic.
		And so they had the awful thing from the attic.
		But I, you know, the monsters.
		But I'll tell you, I really think that it would be possible to do such an experiment.
		And if it's not a judgmental, wrathful creator on the other side who's going to say, okay, fine, fella, you're dead.
		But if it is whatever it is, then it should be possible to have that experience.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, I'm glad we didn't drop the subject because I don't want you flatlining, my friend.
		There are natural methods.
		There are natural techniques.
		We, some years ago, accepted a challenge.
		They put targets for us in New York.
		They put some in England.
		We were in Chicago.
		They put some in Boston.
		And we were able to send people out of their bodies and just even name the labels on furniture and appliances in the rooms that they had chosen and so forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		So there are natural techniques.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		As I said before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You realize if you could demonstrate that, Brad, you could take less than amazing Randy's million dollars.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		We did this live on television on ABC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, that was scary because, boy, you know, that's the moment of truth when the cameras are on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		But we were able to accomplish this with the proper subjects and with conditioning beforehand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what were the comments of the observers seeing all this?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Totally blew their minds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bet it did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying, but I don't know if it's, I think it's the same realm, sort of, but I'm not quite sure that leaving your body and reading a label on the other side of the earth is quite the same as your soul projecting itself toward eternity.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		But you can make a turn, and that's where you can head.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		You can visit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you really?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I believe so, and we've done it many, many times with individuals and subjects and come back with extraordinary information.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Again, you know, probably it's not going to satisfy every living cynic on the planet, but I think if you're at all open and will accept the same type of evidence that would be found in a legal court of law to prove something is real, then I say yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's go to the phones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time, caller line, you're on the air with Art Bell and Brad Steiger.
unidentified		Hello, hello.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Hello, Art?
		Yes.
		I'm sorry, I didn't know I was on.
		Brad Steiger had written some books back in the 60s on the star people.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I wanted to know if you still felt like your conclusions were valid.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I think the conclusions are valid.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Many people have presented their interpretations of my conclusions, and so I don't know exactly what you're referring to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you conclude?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, there seem to be, I won't say there seem to be, there are a large number of people today who are awakening to the realization that their spiritual essence has come from some other place, some other dimension, some other world.
		And what people have misinterpreted is that, you know, aliens walk among this.
		These people are aliens.
		What we're talking about, or what I was talking about, is the spiritual essence within.
		In other words, as Jesus says, we are strangers here.
		You are in this world, but you are not of it.
		And a lot of people are awakening like little time capsules going off in their psychics.
		And I've just heard from some extraordinary people, you know, who wish to remain anonymous, but who wrote me extraordinary letters.
		People with high academic degrees, people in research, people in the military.
		I mean, you cannot name a branch of any profession that did not contact well over 30,000 people now have written for the questionnaire, and it's extraordinary.
		So, yes, we are still researching that.
		I think the conclusions are valid.
		But please understand, I'm not saying these people are alien babies.
		That's the way some people have misinterpreted letters.
unidentified		Are you saying that they are reincarnated?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		That's one way to say it, or they recognize their essence has come from some other place.
		And, you know, that's another dimension.
		That's another world.
		This is not a new concept.
		You know, we know that our spirits, well, some of us are convinced that, I mean, you talk about invasion of the body snatchers.
		In that sense, we're all body snatchers.
		We're all spirits.
		We're all souls.
		We have come to this planet.
		We are inhabiting a physical body, which we shall use for a time, and then we shall move on.
		Many of us have that particular philosophy.
		And we, those of us in religion call it one thing.
		Those of us who are exploring the world might call it something else.
		We're all talking about the same thing, the awareness that we are strangers in a strange land.
		This is not our...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wild Carline, you're on the air with Brad Steiger and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello, Mr. Stager.
		Yes.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I've been, well, on a 30-year, very passive journey.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And when you were speaking of your geometric forms, now, may I ask you a question?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Certainly.
unidentified		When you see these forms, are you in a coming out of a sleep, a consciousness to conscious, or from going to conscious to subconscious?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, please understand, sir, that I saw them when I was having a near-death experience.
unidentified		Okay.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		So as, well, I'll just tell you very briefly.
		I saw my bloodied, mangled body on the ground.
		I was moving toward the light, and I suddenly had this, I'm dying, you know, I don't want to die.
		And then I saw a series of geometric forms that gave me the most ecstatic peace I could ever imagine.
		And let me know that there was a meaning, there was a purpose.
		Whatever happened, it was all part of some divine plan, and we're all a part of it.
		And there is a meaning to life.
		There is a meaning to history, and that's what the symbols meant to me.
unidentified		I have seen quorums like that.
unidentified		And I am also at the same time, I experience, I don't know what it is, it's like, it's not music, it's like cosmic sound.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Okay, right.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		That's interesting because I have not mentioned that usually, but that was part of it.
unidentified		Okay, mine started after I was in a horrific voting accident a few years ago that I should have, I and three other people should have been killed instantly.
		For some reason, I was spared.
		And it got me thinking, why am I here?
		I don't know the purpose, but I knew I was here for a purpose.
		Whether it is to raise me or raise my children, I don't know what.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, that's the same thing that Gordon Michael Scallion said about the geometric patterns, though he might not be able to relate it now.
		At the time that he saw them, he understood it all.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Now, he mentioned the music, art.
		I don't think I have ever mentioned that before, but there was the music, and I still, from time to time, hear the music.
		But I have not seen those symbols again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see, I've heard this story, Brad, from so many people who have had NDEs, but I've not heard this story from people who have simply had OBEs.
		I just haven't.
		Now, I'm not saying that with an OBE you can't experience this sort of thing, but with everybody I've talked to, and I've interviewed some of the best people in the field.
		Oh, I know you have.
		It seems unique to the NDE.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		That may be true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which may mean the NDE is unique, which may mean that the only way to experience it is to nearly die or to clinically die.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, in the whole Native American shamanic Tradition.
		You know, that is also an integral part of it.
		Whether it comes from a high fever, whether it comes from an accident, when it comes from a disease, that lying, you know, dead, so to speak, and then coming back, in almost all cultures, that is part of the requirements or initiation of a shaman.
		And there may be a good reason for that, Art.
		I mean, maybe that's what you're saying.
		In other words, that's when you have seen the other side.
		That's when you've seen the world of the grandfathers and grandmothers, the world of the spirit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I sure would like to see it.
		East of the Rockies, you're on there with Brad Steiger.
		Good morning.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		This is Red in Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hi there.
unidentified		I have three questions for Mr. Steiger regarding a chapter in his book, The Philadelphia Experiment and Other UFO Conspiracies.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I will try.
unidentified		Okay.
		First of all, you make a reference to Dr. Wilhelm Reich.
		And I have tried in my used bookstores in the area to find any of Dr. Reich's books.
		I've found books by M.K. Jessop and other out-of-print researchers, but nothing on Mr. Reich.
		Really?
		Is there anywhere where his books are available?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would not think you would have a difficult time finding the works of Wilhelm Reich.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Let me reach over here.
unidentified		This is strange.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		This book surfaced from nowhere.
		I guess it was anticipating your question.
		I don't know if this is still extant or not.
unidentified		Let's see.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Oh, probably not.
unidentified		There was a person...
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Here again, it's a privately published book.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Dear people send me a lot of those, you know, they print a few, so I don't know where you'd get this.
unidentified		I would say just keep on with your book search because they should really not be that rare.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		They should not be that hard to find.
unidentified		Okay, and the second question is, is the Wilhelm Wright Foundation in Maine still in existence, do you know?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was going to be my next suggestion.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Again, you know, time goes so fast, but it's not that long that I did a seminar at which his daughter was present, and it was still functioning then, so I'll give a tentative yes.
unidentified		Okay, do you happen to have the address of that particular seminar?
unidentified		No, I don't.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I mean, not on hand.
unidentified		Sorry.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Not on hand.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Was that located in Holton, Maine?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I don't recall.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
		Okay, and I was just wondering if perhaps you'd explain to the listeners Mr. Reich's research into orgone energy.
		All right.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, give it a try, Brad.
		In a kind of a capitalization.
		Sure.
		Okay, well, what I find fascinating about it, orgone energy, the life force, the energy sometimes associated with sexual energy.
		Here we're back with sex and the supernatural.
		But saying that there is a life force that can be tapped, that can be utilized.
		Now, what I found fascinating is that Wright went into the desert with his Orgone Buster, and he and, and I have some astonishing photographs of this, some UFOs can be living creatures.
		Some UFOs can be living things.
		Maybe, you know, just as in the ocean, there are creatures all the way down at various depths.
		Maybe in the atmosphere, there are certain creatures that we haven't identified yet.
unidentified		At least that is a viable hypothesis at this point.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Prove it wrong, but, you know, it seems to be.
		So he took photographs, and he felt that this organ energy that he was able to project would make them come into manifestation where they could be photographed.
		And so he felt that the UFO energy and the orgone energy were harmonious or were symbiotic and some astonishing research which landed the man in prison, and that's where he spent his last years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In prison.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's an extraordinary story, whether you agree with someone's philosophy or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why in prison, though?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		What did he do during the prison?
		Oh, that's a whole.
		It's very vague, and of course you will find those who feel that it was the government who did it, or he definitely ran afoul, whether it was the FDA or the AMA or the government or whatever.
		I have received all kinds of literature over the years about it.
		It is a controversial subject.
		People have to explore it, make their own decisions.
		But certainly I don't think you can justify having a man sent and die in prison because of his beliefs.
		If they can be disproven or if they can be demonstrated as injurious, then that's one thing, and a person should be made to cease.
		But when one is, I mean, he was an accredited scientist.
		Some of the theories were off the wall to some people.
		Some of them, I'm quite certain, will probably prove to be valid, or at least valid to some degree.
		And of course, that's going to start an argument just by my saying that.
		But again, we have to explore these things with an attitude of openness.
		And I'm not giving a fair portrayal of his whole theory.
		I'm simply indicating what I found fascinating was the connection to UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that is fascinating.
		I'm going to ask you a really off-the-wall question.
		There isn't going to be time for you to respond to it before we break here.
		But Wednesday, I have these very interesting people coming on.
		The Israeli government, of course, has to deal With terrorism a lot.
		And they've done some fractal research that has resulted in this unbelievable program called the Truster.
		It comes from Israel.
		You simply hook it up to your phone, and in a conversation you have with somebody, it will tell you, it will actually flash up on your computer screen after it samples their voice.
		You know, you might say something like, how's the wife, and that sort of thing, to get sort of a baseline.
		But with almost the accuracy of a full polygraph hooked up to you with all the wires and sensors and all the rest of it.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Was it like a PSE then?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It samples your voice, and then it looks at different stress levels.
		And it's so accurate and so good that 85% of the time, slightly under that of a polygraph, it will accurately tell you whether the person you're talking to, for any given statement, is telling a lie or telling the truth.
		So I'll get your comments on this when we come back.
		But I think it'll change the world.
		And I'm not sure for the better or for the worse.
unidentified		Well, I think it's time to get ready To realize what I have found I have found Well, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now back to Brad Snyker.
		Brad, I wasn't kidding about this thing called the trust where it's real and it works.
		And I wonder what would happen to our society if you knew, if everybody knew that they had to tell everybody else the truth?
		Would it be a complete societal breakdown, do you suppose?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, we give obeisance to that ideal every day.
unidentified		We say that ideal.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		But again, I am nervous about any machine because I think it will take a very skilled interpreter to distinguish between stress from some other situation and when someone is prevaricating, telling a lie.
		I'm of the generation.
		I mean, you can say you disagree with me.
		You can say I'm mistaken.
		You can say I'm ignorant.
		That won't upset me.
		But call me a liar, and you will see me revert to my Viking ancestors, and you'll see a berserker coming right at you because, damn it, I don't lie.
		But you can disagree, and you can say I'm wrong, but don't say I'm lying.
		Now, part of what I've learned as an interviewer and going all around the country and going in different foreign countries is what I call the pork chop hill syndrome.
		Someone telling a story as if it happened to him or her and it really happened to someone else, they tell it so often they believe it happened to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		To make a long story short, here in our wonderful little Iowa community some years ago, there was a very wonderful woman who, church every Sunday, the model.
		I mean, she was the ideal.
		She was to the point where, you know, I was making jokes about, you know, like, you know, if she says that it's law, she would tell, and I heard her tell a story one time of an experience that happened to her, and everyone's laughing and everything because it's such an extraordinary experience.
		Well, of course, I travel a great deal, and it wasn't long before I heard the same story in another part of the country, and I realized it was an urban legend that she was projecting and saying it happened to her.
		Now, I heard her do that again with another popular urban legend that was going the rounds, and when I suggested, not to her, but just to someone else, that she might not really have had that happen to her, I was nearly beheaded.
		I mean, it was as if I had insulted Queen Elizabeth in the 16th century, you know, back in those days.
		She, the way she told it, the way she reacted, I think she might have thought it happened to her because it sounded good and she got attention.
		So one thing I've learned interviewing people, whether they said they see an angel or they've seen a UFO, and sometimes editors get after me because I say the person claimed it is alleged.
		They say, just say it.
		That's more forceful.
		But what I have to say as a journalist is this is what this person claimed.
		It may well have happened.
		Now, to me, 90% of the UFO experience is an aspect of the individual mystical experience.
		I think there's a physical part of it, maybe 10% or less.
		The rest is part of the individual mystical experience.
		So if it is an individual subjective experience, no one can really judge if it is true or false in an objective sense if it is completely true in a subjective sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But this is more pragmatic than that.
		In other words, they say in the manual that comes with it, for example, that somebody who is psychotic and who believes every word they're saying, even though there's not a bit of truth to it, this person is not testable.
		Not by this thing or by anything else.
		They say that in the manual.
		In addition, if the person is elderly and has forgotten, but nevertheless they tell a story, it will be also registered as truthful.
		But in everyday dealings, like in business deals and in conversations you have with people on the phone about this or that, it is nearly impeccable in terms of catching a lie.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		So if you're talking to me and I say yes, and when the car hit me, it just hurt my neck terribly, I think I have whiplash.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That, it seems to me, has tremendous implications for society.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, it does if it is not abused.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy, put that if about up there at the top with the tallest building in the world.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a big if.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		That is a big if.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I just thought I'd ask.
		It's very intriguing.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Brad Steiger.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		My name's Wolf, and I'm calling from the Mendocino Coast.
		And first, I'd like to thank you, Mr. Bell, just for doing this show and putting this information out to the public.
		And My question for Mr. Seiger is, have you done any investigation into Aboriginal Dream Time?
		And if you did, what did you learn?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		If you mean Aboriginal.
unidentified		Like in Australia.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay.
		Because Aboriginal also means our own Aboriginal people, of course.
		So on this continent, yes, I have done a great deal of research with Aboriginal Dream Time, but I've not done any with the Australian people other than correspondents and people who have sent me material, but no direct experience.
unidentified		But you would say it's pretty much the same time.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I would say that.
		Yes, I would say it is the same.
		Okay, well, thank you.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		I think that's really important that Australian Aborigines, American Natives, really they've got about the same message.
		And that too should be telling people something.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Brad Steiger and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hi.
		A D minus?
		Whoa.
		That is something.
		I thought at least a C. This is Paul calling from KFYI Country down in Phoenix.
		Yes.
		And I had a question here.
		I'm going through kind of a psychic flux.
		Now, I've had my own experiences seeing people after they had died.
		Once I lived in a cottage in the rear where this gentleman walked in while I was having breakfast, walked through the window, and stood there.
		I could only see him from the waist up.
		Green sweater, gray hair.
		I didn't know who he was.
		I had just moved in that week.
		And I talked to the landlady, and lo and behold, she goes in her bedroom and comes out with this photograph of her father wearing the green sweater and all, which, you know, was like, oh, here we go again.
		But I had more experiences in the past.
		And the one thing I was going to ask, I didn't know if it was the times we're in or if something's going on that's going to pop with me.
		But when I passed 50, I don't seem to, even while in meditation, get that closeness to the spiritual side.
		The closeness where for guidance, the closeness to God, if you want to say.
		But for some reason, it's getting harder and harder to get that comforter to be around more.
		And I just wondered if that's happening to other people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my guess is it is.
		Brad, again, I had a doctor on that I interviewed recently about this.
		And he said, you know, children constantly are experiencers of all kinds of things, and it is thrashed out of them psychologically, in effect.
		Their parents tell them, it was just a dream.
		It's just your imagination.
		It's just this.
		It's just that.
		It's not real.
		And eventually their little brains are conditioned to reject that kind of input as they get older and they get older and they get older.
		It doesn't happen with everybody, but it happens with more than not.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		But here's the gentleman who said past 50, and he's had this, and now it's beginning to diminish.
		I would think it might be something that your own individual quest is telling you to emphasize.
		And of course, not knowing the details of your life, I couldn't be more specific.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You could ask questions like, do you do drugs?
		Do you drink?
		I think these things probably get in the way.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Is he still on the line?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm playing it safe here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm saying you could ask questions like that.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can.
		And again, is there, like he said, the comforter, which in Christian context is the Holy Spirit, we know.
		He says he doesn't feel that.
		It seems the people, and no, this is not judgmental.
		I'm just saying the feedback I'm getting is that people who are contacting me seem to be feeling it more and seem to be feeling the intensity of these times, whether you consider them the end times, the transition times, or simply, you know, we're hitting the year 2000 and it has no other meaning than that.
		But there is an atmosphere, there is an attitude, there is a flavor to these times.
		There's no question about that, however you want to define it.
		And it seems to me the majority of people I'm hearing from are feeling an intensification right now.
		So, again, you know, we would have to visit with the gentleman much in greater detail to be able to be specific.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe his eventual destination is changing.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, that could be.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And this is what it could be telling him that he needs to re-evaluate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All safe to say now that he's off the line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on there with Brad Steiger.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		I have two questions for Mr. Steiger.
		Sure.
		The first question is, you were telling about the entity that you saw looking in at your parents when you were five.
		I was curious to know if the next morning you went out to see if the washtub was still under the window.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's something I've never been asked, but immediately the response that came to me is that it was.
		Because, you see, at that time, the well, we had to pump the water.
		And the wash tub was used as a washtub, but it was also used as like an overflow, you know, so you wouldn't waste any water.
		And, you know, it seems to me that it was.
unidentified		Amazing.
		The other question I have is, I guess about seven or eight years ago, I began to see things.
		And at first I thought I was losing my mind.
		You know, I'd see like people or creatures that weren't exactly like regular animals.
		And quite frankly, it scares the hell out of me when it happens.
		But I was wondering what maybe I could do, because it usually only lasts like a few seconds.
		And I was wondering what maybe I could do to draw out the contact and maybe find out what they're trying to tell me.
		Yeah, that would be what I would do.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		But again, I would do it very cautiously because the deceivers are out there.
		So again, I'm just going to say it as simply as I can.
		Surround yourself with the golden light or white light or protection.
		You know, if you want to say a prayer, but emphasize that you want only the positive.
		And if there is a communication, don't fall for any grandiose promises or claims.
		If they are benevolent, then first of all, they're not going to be bothering you.
		But if you're aware of them, as many of us are from time to time, then natural human curiosity wants to know, what do you want?
		What's next?
		So proceed with caution and don't be deceived.
		But surround yourself with the white light of protection and let it know that you want them know you want only the good and what is of the God, great spirit, the oneness.
unidentified		I see.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I interview frequently Father Malachi Martin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know Malachi or heard of him.
		Sure.
		He says, Brad, and this really is frightening, that in the area that he presides over in the northeast of New York City and surrounding area, there is, in recent years, an 800% increase in the amount of possession and evil.
		I mean, possession that actually gets to his level.
		800%.
		That's a big, big increase, too much for my taste, in evil.
		Just very recently.
		How do you react to that?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, again, that seems like an extraordinary high percentage, but I think a few years ago, I would have probably laughed and poo-pooed that.
		And evil is only a concept.
		It's only a state of mind.
		But again, as we proceed, and even though we're cockeyed optimists, we do become pragmatic cockeyed optimists.
		And we recognize and we learn through sometimes painful experience that evil does exist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would say, what do you mean, we, Tanto?
		I'm pretty pessimistic.
		And somebody sent me a list of school killings the other day.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Children who are really young, who don't care about their own lives, and sure as hell don't care about yours or mine.
		They don't care about anything.
		It's like they're soulless little creatures, and we've got an awful lot of that going on right now.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Sherry and I were watching the news the other night when one of the latest came, the Oregon one, and we said, possession is as good an answer as any, because there is no explanation.
		I mean, there is no reason.
		And when these people are interviewed and the families interviewed, there is no reason.
		Now, again, of course, other people will pull out their hair in dismay at hearing me say such a thing, but in line with Reverend Martin, Malachi Martin, again, there is something afoot.
		This is a time of testing on schoolhouse earth.
		And that's why I told this sincere gentleman who called, don't fall for any deception.
		You know, be very wary, be very cautious.
		Test the spirits as we are told to do in Scripture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've got the old model of the evil side offering deals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if the good side offers deals.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		The good side offers opportunities, no deals.
unidentified		Well said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Western the Rockies, you're on there with Brad Siger.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm going to...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bend, Oregon?
unidentified		No, no, I'm sorry.
		Sully Dunk in a band out here in Phoenix.
		Okay.
		But I'm actually calling in because I had a question about time.
		Time?
		Mr. Bell, I do listen to your show frequently.
		In fact, I've become sort of attached to it, lost a lot of sleep.
		So I do think of that, but I enjoy the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that the time question?
unidentified		That is not the time question.
		Actually, the time question is I've been noticing lately, we live in a digital age.
		I've been noticing lately on clocks when things are sort of going right.
		It seems as though I'll walk into a room and there's a certain key combination of numbers, like 11-11, 10-23, like 1-2-3, 1-2-3-4.
		And it seems as though it only occurs when I'm sort of on a good vibe, if you know what I mean.
		I see it often.
		I notice it a lot.
		I comment to it to my friends and stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
unidentified		I really haven't been able to come up with any explanations.
unidentified		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For me, it's 10-10.
unidentified		I'm sorry?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For me, it's 10-10.
unidentified		10-10, exactly.
		Raw fives.
		I see a lot of 23.
		I'll look at pictures now, especially like pyramid pictures or anything, and I'll count all the spots or anything.
		And for the most part, I do come up with certain numbers.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		You would be astonished at the number of letters I get that say exactly what you're saying.
unidentified		It's becoming a common thing, I guess.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		It's becoming a common thing.
		And again, just think about this because I can't give any definite what the numbers mean.
		It may mean something to you, but I think what it is saying is pay attention.
		Now is the time.
		The time is now.
		And, you know, this is a time to be aware.
		This is a time to be really acutely perceptive of your environment and your opportunities.
		And I think we are approaching a time, a moment of truth, a moment of decision.
unidentified		Very true.
unidentified		I little by little saying recognize the now, and I always take time, you know, no matter how the day is going, just to kind of stop and just, you know, get out of that number sequence that we've kind of created and just sort of watch the world go by.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if maybe the numbers might have something to do, Brad, with the geometric patterns, if there might be a relationship.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I wish I could answer more authoritatively.
		I get so many of these.
		And people say that they have heard number sequences from UFOs.
		People have been walking in the woods.
		They've heard number sequences coming from all around them.
		All I can say feebly is I think it's telling us, you know, pay attention to the time.
		Make the best use of the time that you have.
		But maybe it's telling us something specifically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Brad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Another mystery.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Another mystery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have a world full of mysteries, don't we?
unidentified		Well, listen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're going to break here at the top of the hour.
		Brad Seiger is my guest, and you can see the range of subjects is all over the map, and we'll keep it that way for the final hour.
		I'm Mark Bell from the high desert, reminding you, tell your friends tomorrow night, Gordon Michael Scallion.
		Don't touch that dot.
unidentified		Beating it safe.
		For you.
		From the Kingdom of Nive, this is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell.
		From east of the Rockies, call Art at 1-800-825-5033.
		West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico at 1-800-618-8255.
		First-time callers may reach Art at Area Code 702-727-1222.
		And you may fax ART at Area Code 702-727-8499.
		Please limit your faxes to one or two pages.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
		Now again, here's Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here I am.
		Anybody out there listened to Short Wave lately?
		And I'll tell you, the activity on the sun is absolutely incredible, and the Short Wave bands are beginning to really open up big time.
		All right, back down to Brad Seiger.
		Brad, do you know the name Terrence McKenna?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know that he was, well, he's kind of the modern-day Tim Leary.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've interviewed him a few times, so this will give you a chance to get in trouble if you want to.
		I'm going to read you a fact.
		Art, hearing your guests speak of geometric patterns and cosmic sounds associated with them reminds me of the interview you did with Terrence McKenna, in which he spoke of his experience with the drug DMT.
		When using that drug, he said he would always encounter these geometric entities, which he called self-transforming elf machines, and these entities seemed to communicate with them in sounds and music.
		I find a very interesting connection here, as this experience attributed to NDEs may be able to be reproduced through the use of this drug.
		And I was wondering if your guest was aware of Mr. McKenna's experience, his opinions on such things, however controversial it may be.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am aware.
		And I think a very interesting situation arises here that I have dealt with.
		I spent, Tim Leary and I had many wonderful conversations.
		We were on, with a person like Tim, even though we disagreed about how to get there, we could still be friends.
		And I remember in the 60s, back in the village in New York, many times I was there presenting the natural way, and friends of mine were presenting LSD and other ways.
		I have never used drugs.
		I do not recommend drugs.
		I always advocate the natural way.
		Now, some of my drug enthusiasts would say in exasperation, yes, Brad, but you see these things normally.
		How can you be so elitist and deny other people taking a drug?
		Again, my only objection is when it becomes recreational use, if it is done in the attitude of a preparation, of the discipline, as a ritual, then I think there can be some merit.
		But again, from my perspective, it is the unnatural versus the natural.
		Now, of course, better things through better living through chemistry, some people will say, and that it does provide a shortcut.
		And then I, once again, I'm called arrogant and snobbish and elitist because I insist upon discipline and the natural methods.
		You can argue it, and of course I have been since the 60s.
		And I think it is a personal choice.
		I think some of these things can be replicated.
		But again, it's like seeing it in a mirror.
		I mean, there is the real and then there is the reflection.
		And okay, this is a bias.
		You know, we all have our biases.
		To me, I will always prefer looking at the real thing rather than seeing A reflection.
		But, of course, the advocates of drug use can say it provides a shortcut, it provides a way of getting there.
		I just always worry about then the people who use it recreationally or abuse it.
		Once again, that word we've used several times tonight.
		If it can be done with the same attitude of discipline and respect, then, you know, again, I have to concede that point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can't rule it out.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I can't.
		No, no, I can't.
		No, I can't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on there with Brad Seiger, North, Ohio.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
unidentified		This is Jerry from Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jerry.
unidentified		And I have traveled to and beyond the white light in deep meditation.
		My body was in no trauma whatsoever.
		I used the techniques that were taught to me personally by Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh.
		I isolated my soul.
		My soul traveled up through the center of the hurricane and through a very narrow passage, which I believe that Jesus referred to as the eye of the needle.
		I'm the only one I've ever heard say that, but that was my take on this very small passage.
		I flowed to the white light, under the white light, and because I had been looking for it so long, I was not afraid.
		I immediately recognized it as my master, Bhagavan Sri Rajneesh, and I just hung around under it.
		I immediately apologized for wrongdoings, and then I begged to be led into heaven.
		But the white light did not respond.
		It just continued to be absolutely conscious.
		So since I couldn't manipulate the white light, I began to just relax and look deeper and deeper into it.
		The deeper I looked into it, the further I saw, until I was looking into myself through my back.
		At that point, a gold light from the outer reaches of the universe came to me and formed a ring, a gold ring of light around me, which had a geometric pattern, which I have described to people as a fishnet pattern.
		And the amazing thing is that no draftsman with the most high-tech equipment could have made a geometric pattern so perfect.
		Anyway, I was surrounded by this gold ring of light, and immediately my soul fell back into what I experienced as love water.
		It was the same substance as my soul.
		It was what I think is called the universal soul.
		I think it's what the Tibetans refer to when they say that your drop falls into the ocean.
		And I accomplished this not in a near-death experience.
		I simply took a week off from work, sat in my bed, covered my eyes, and just went for it.
		Wow.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Did you send this to me?
unidentified		No, I wrote it.
unidentified		I wrote it down, and I actually sent it to the Rajneesh newspaper, and they rejected it.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Someone sent me it, you know, again, as you were saying it, it just seems so familiar to me as if you had sent it to me.
unidentified		And could I also mention that my soul had all the sensory senses that my body had.
		I smelled a fragrance that was, do you remember as a child smelling a really fresh carnation?
		That incredible freshness?
		And the music was so high, it was higher than any music I've ever heard anywhere.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is what I was saying earlier to art, that there are natural ways of achieving this.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And you have described, and please understand how I'm saying this, almost the prototypical individual mystical experience of illumination or self-realization.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, I listen to this, Brad, and I'm envious.
		I'm not completely embracing it.
		I need to somehow experience this for myself.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't blame you one bit.
		You notice she said she took a week off from work.
		I mean, she made a commitment.
		She applied the discipline, and obviously, maybe she fasted, maybe she did other things, you know, to but as I said, and I intended no disrespect to her experience, but I mean, she describes, you know, almost prototypically, she put it into the Roshneesh background and environmental modality.
		But, you know, again, it could be St. Francis or St. Anne or your guide taking, I mean, depending on your cosmology, you know, the same pattern is there.
unidentified		It's the same pattern, in my opinion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would your wife say about that?
unidentified		She would agree because she's had such an experience.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		She was out of body for almost five hours and went to what she describes as, again, because of her orientation as a Christian, to the New Jerusalem.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		It's an extraordinary experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if there's only one religious truth, then that's what it ought to be.
		I mean, it ought to be New Jerusalem for Sherry, for this caller who found it through Roshneesh.
		There's got to be all these paths to the same virtual place.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have just completed a book called Touched by Heaven's Light.
unidentified		Really?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And it deals with these types of things we're talking about tonight.
		Well, of course, we're talking about, as we always do, a myriad of topics, but what we're talking about now, Dee.
		And I'm convinced that we create our own heaven.
		When I went to quote-unquote heaven at age 11, it was a heaven that I would love and expect to see.
		I think when Jesus says, lay up your treasures On earth, I think he's saying we're gathering the materials and the substance for our afterlife, for the heaven that we will conceptualize.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then there can be no single heaven, but many, many.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, in my house, there are many mansions.
		And I think many mansions, again, there are many rooms, there are many doors, there are many, many approaches.
		It's only one, but we apprehend that oneness in terms of our own acculturation and in terms of the treasures, quote unquote, that we have gathered while we are on Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Brad Seiger and Art Bell.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		I heard y'all talking earlier about young children and how parents try to talk them out of these things that they say were their imagination.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, they do.
unidentified		Well, as a child, my grandmother was raising me from the time when I was like six till about nine and a half.
		And this was in Henrico County and outside of Richmond, Virginia.
		And we would ride down this road called Mechanicsville and pass by this Kwanson Hut automobile mechanic shop.
		And I used to look at her and tell her all the time that I used to work in that place.
		You know, I would just keep telling her that.
		And she would always say, oh, just be quiet.
		You know, it's impossible.
		And I would keep telling her that.
		Well, finally, one day, you know, I described the whole place to her and everything.
		And she pulled up in there and went walking around, looking around in there, but she never said anything to me.
		She talked to my mom about it later on.
		And when I got up around about 14 or 15, me and my mom were sitting around late one night talking about it.
		She said, your grandmother told me that you had described that place, and it was to a T. She said she was afraid to tell you about that.
		Well, then about a year after that, I was on the road with my dad in a band.
		We went to Devil's Lake, North Dakota, and we pulled up in front of this club.
		And I looked at him and I told him everything, the whole layout inside this club.
		Now, at this point, I had never been out of Virginia or the North Carolina area at all, any time in my life.
		You know, we walked in and looked around, and it just about knocked me over.
		It was like, damn.
		I was just wondering what your aspect on that was as far as is that like a reincarnation feeling or is that like a telepathic type thing?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what I feel is that you're a natural clairvoyant.
		And when your focus is directed for whatever reason, as a child, you may have been intrigued by the closet hut mechanic and you simply projected yourself, traveling clairvoyance, we used to call it.
		you simply projected your essence in there and perceived it in the same way with the What did you feel?
		Did you feel it was you?
		Did you feel it was an aspect of you?
		The way you're describing it, I think you're a natural clairvoyant.
unidentified		That's interesting because I still have these feelings.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'll bet you do.
unidentified		I'll bet you do.
unidentified		I'm like, you know, I'm 40.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		They don't go away, you know, unless you really make them go away.
unidentified		Right.
		You know, I mean, I'll be sitting and see, I've been studying a lot in the Bible here lately, world politics.
		And I'll go to a lot of these Bible studies and everything and be sitting there.
		And it's like, well, like, for instance, this past Sunday at church, what I had been studying, what our pastor started talking about everything in our leaflet that was handed to us, as far as chapters and verses to be marked out to follow him, as far as what he was given, I had already been reading that, already had it marked out, and it was just like I was listening to the whole thing over again in my head.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, as my minister wife would say, brother, you have a gift of the Spirit.
unidentified		I hope so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for the call.
unidentified		Oh, thank you.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you take care.
		Maybe time for one more for the bottom of the air.
		West of the Rockies are on the air with Brad Steiger and Art Bellai.
unidentified		Hi, fellas.
		How you doing?
		Great.
		Good.
		Art, you know, I had one of those experiences myself, and I didn't take a week off, and I didn't fast.
		I was just frustrated, and I went to bed one night and wanted a moment's peace.
		And the next thing I know, you know, I'm sort of visualizing this peacefulness to myself, and then willing it on my home and my block.
		The next thing I know, I'm looking down on the earth, and it wasn't visualization anymore.
		I was looking down on the earth.
		And there was a web, and it was shimmering.
		And somehow or another, I caught hold of one of those threads and just got zipped fast to this place that was just the most incredible place.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, other people have described that web.
unidentified		Yeah, it's wonderful.
		So you can do it.
		It's not a big deal.
		I think a lot of it is intent.
		And a couple of other things.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Intent and desire.
unidentified		Intent and desire, yeah.
		I mean, I was intent on having a moment's peace, believe me.
		It was one of those.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		You wanted to stop the world and get off.
unidentified		Yeah, I really do.
		Or come into balance with it, you know, bring it into balance with what I do.
		Yeah, and it was an awesome experience.
		And a couple of other things.
		The kids that called in about seeing the 11-11s, I lost a job over that one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, listen, that sounds like an interesting story, but we're at the bottom of the hour, so I'm going to ask you to hold on, okay?
unidentified		Okay, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we'll take this up after the bottom of the hour break, which is now rapidly approaching.
		From the high desert where summer has still not yet arrived, such a weird weather year.
		This is Coast to Coast,
unidentified		A.M. To talk
		with Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from east of the Rockies, dial 1-800-825-5033.
		West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, 1-800-618-8255.
		First-time callers may reach Art at area code 702-727-1222.
		And you may call Art on the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
		To reach Art from outside the U.S., first dial your access number to the USA.
		Then 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM from the Kingdom of Nigh with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, back to Brad Steiger, and this is the stretch run.
		It goes so quickly.
		Another 20 minutes, and we're out of here, Brad.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Unbelievable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know it always happens that way.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Unbelievable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even though when I'm on a network, I have to watch the clock very carefully.
		When we're on the air, it just goes.
		Yeah, it's amazing to me.
		First time calling a line, you're on the air with Brad Steiger and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yes, my name is Nicholas in Los Angeles.
		Good evening, Art.
		Good evening, Brad.
		Good evening, Nicholas.
		I think early on in the program you took a rather pessimistic view about the likelihood of our avoiding upcoming earth changes.
		And I have what I believe is good reason to be optimistic that we will, in fact, avoid all of them.
		And the reason I feel optimistic about this is because I have good reason to believe that people travel out of the body in spirit and heal the planet.
		And this is how Gordon Michael Scallion's predictions in late 95 failed to come to pass.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, no.
		He said, if you recall carefully, he said if the following events complete themselves, it will occur.
		And if the cycle of four earthquakes does not complete, then the following will not occur.
		Now, unfortunately, you might want to listen tomorrow night to Gordon Michael's galleon.
		He's coming on the air for a very specific reason.
		And he seems to feel that now they are going to complete.
		Without going into a lot of detail, I don't want to tell you what he's going to say tomorrow night or put words in his mouth, but he now feels they're going to complete, and so do the others that I'm speaking with.
		Now, thank you very much for the call.
		But in a way, that's the kind of person that you were talking about earlier, isn't it, Brad?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, and I certainly think there is some truth, and there is truth in everyone's vision.
		I think, again, we need to prepare ourselves spiritually.
		I think that's what he's advocating.
		I think, and I pray for healing the planet every night.
		And I think there are those of us in spirit who are doing that.
		And I think in our own way.
		As Goethe said, if you want to clean up the world, start with your own doorstep.
		And I think that's what we must do.
		We must be certain that our corner is secure.
		And then hopefully there will be a marvelous domino effect in the whole world.
		But I think there are those of us of goodwill and spirit who are working for that.
		But that still, in my opinion, does not change the fact that certain of these earth changes are occurring because of some great cosmic calendar, not because we need to heal, not because we've been evil, not because we're being punished, but simply because, as I said before in the analogy, winter has come.
		So we must prepare so that we survive the winter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		But what you said earlier, maybe because of the way I am, resonated with me.
		You said there are a lot of new agers out there who are just convinced they can turn it all around, and I'm not in any way down on them.
		No, I just, and it's fine, and I wish them all the luck in the world, but I still think it's going to be splat.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think, as I said before, all the prophecies, whatever credence you want to put into that, there is some particular reason why they are all focusing now.
		And I did a book, and I hate to mention it because we got hundreds of letters, and it's not a print, but roadmap of time based on the work of these scientists, who again went all the way back to tree rings and sun signs and all these things and brought it together with a thousand people working, assisting in the research, which indicated again that there are certain upheavals on this planet would take place.
		And again, it has nothing to do...
		So if we can be warned by, as it's translated by the prophecies, if we can be forewarned, then we can, with our good thoughts and our positive feelings, we can survive as a species.
		But many of us may not because they happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time or the right place at the right time, however you want to say it.
		So that's what we say is work on yourself.
		Work on your spiritual development.
		Work on your own pathway of peace, your own pathway of enlightenment, so that you are prepared for whatever eventuality comes down the pike.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the ear.
unidentified		Hello, this is Sandy from Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Cindy.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Sandy.
unidentified		Hi.
		Mr. Steiger, while separating myself from the whole situation and looking on earth while I'll still on my body, it seems that, you know, there's this us against the Earth and one God.
		And I heard someone on our show the other night that said, you know, we're all just a human Petri dish, and we were all genetically engineered, and there's a bunch of little gods out there that are really pulling the strings.
		Sometimes I feel like I'm spinning my wheels.
		Your opinion?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Precisely, please.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		What are you asking me?
unidentified		There was a gentleman on our show the other night that has the theory that he's interpreted from the Bible that actually, ma'am, from Sumerian text, if you're sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		The Sumerians kept records in rock.
		And this goes to the Zachariah Sitchin theory of the 12th planet.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the fact that we were all, are all engineered beings by gods with a small G. With a small G. Doesn't necessarily preclude in any way the God with the big G. That's right.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I dealt with this subject here again, as Art can check in my bibliography, back in the 60s when I wrote Worlds Before Our Own.
		And we've gone to Peru, we've gone here, we've gone there, we've seen the various rocks and so forth.
		There does, I mean, it is a viable hypothesis that our species could have received some help along the way.
		Indeed.
		But that does not preclude, and in my opinion, and I emphasize this in every one of the books where I deal with this, and I've dealt with this in about six books, it does not preclude in any way God with the big G. So I don't think you need to spin your wheels.
		I think you need to accept this as one person's truth that was shared with you.
		If it feels right to you, fine.
		If not, reject it or question it or examine it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good enough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Brad Steiger and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi, Art.
		This is John from Philadelphia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I would just like to know about the availability.
		I'm one of your many blind listeners.
		I wish you do have many.
		And I wanted to know about the availability of books on tape for the blind.
		Oh, you know, Brad's and yours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, my book, The Cricketing, is going to be available shortly on tape.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The first one I did, The Art of Talk, is already available on audio tape.
unidentified		And then I spoke to you about around Christmas time about that, and I called the number you gave me, and they said it wouldn't be back in print until June.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That's right.
		And so it will be available soon.
		I don't know, Brad, what have you done?
		Do you have books on?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I've given permission several times, but I don't know which titles.
		I frequently receive letters asking if they can put books for the blind, and I always give permission.
		And I don't know.
		You'd have to check.
		I had a wonderful experience where my old English teacher was able to take advantage of one of my books on tape when his illness progressed to a certain state, which he was not blind, but he was still unable to read, and he had been such a wonderful reader.
		So you just have to check.
		I'll just check with the I always give permission.
		And I don't know which ones I don't agree to keep track.
unidentified		Thank you very much, Sonoma.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Brad Spiger and Art Bell.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello, Art.
		You held me over from the bottom of the hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oops.
		That's right.
		I was supposed to come back to you, wasn't I?
unidentified		Yeah, you were.
		You know what?
		The battery on my phone's probably going to die, so unless you want me to go on speakerphone, we should do this real fast.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Go.
unidentified		There's a book out called The 11-11 Gateway written by a woman named Solara.
		And it gives some pretty interesting information, and it made me feel a lot better about losing a job that I planned on retiring from.
		So that for that listener.
		And then I have an experience that happened to me when I was about four or five, and I'm wondering if Mr. Steiger has experienced anything like this in the people that he's talked to.
		I would go to bed at night, and a black hand would come up over the back of my headboard, and I'd wake up, and it'd go back down.
		And my whole family was in an uproar, because my mother now tells me that I would run through the house yelling hookoots and moogers or something crazy.
		And one night, after being scolded repeatedly for disrupting the household sleep, I just decided that I wasn't going to wake up.
		And the hand came down and it tapped me on the shoulder, went back down behind my headboard, and I never saw it again.
		Right after that, it's like my psychic channels just boomed open, and I started having awareness and knowledge of things that I couldn't possibly, at four or five years old, know about.
		The first big word I remember understanding was dimension.
		And that was at about four.
		So have you talked with other people that have seen hands?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think what you're not remembering is probably a class session that you were being summoned to.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember going to a class, classroom?
unidentified		I've been to classrooms since.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		I got to say that.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		So many people, again, as I said, the people who filled out the questionnaire and so forth have indicated a summoning, like a tap, as they're four, five, six years old, falling asleep, and then they remember sitting in a classroom and being taught.
		And then their awareness is opened up.
		And this I have encountered from people around the world that something very interesting is going on.
unidentified		Thank you so much.
unidentified		I've wondered about that hand for 40 years.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, you should have asked me sooner.
unidentified		Well, I just found out about it just tonight, you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, at least your phone hung in there.
unidentified		It did.
unidentified		Thank you, gentlemen.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry I didn't come straight back to you.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Art Bell and Brad Steiger.
		Hello.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, where are you?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I'm in Cleveland, Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I was just calling to say I love your show.
unidentified		I listen to it all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		And that's about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's it, huh?
		Okay.
		Well, take care.
		It is different.
		That's for sure.
		This show is really, really, really different.
		It's hardly ever the same.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Art Bell and Brad Steiger.
		Hello.
		Going once.
		Going twice.
		Gone.
		Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		You're going to have to talk right into your phone, sir.
		I can't hear you.
unidentified		You might do an aye?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's better.
unidentified		Very good.
		Brad, I had my first experience when I was 12.
		I was tossed out of bed onto the floor, and I was sitting there, and this white light, like this star, came down and just smiled right through me.
		And I started to yell, and my family got up.
		My brother, sister, my mother, father, they stood around me and they said, what's going on?
		I said, can't you see this light?
		It came down like that about a dozen times.
		Then it quit.
		I went back to bed.
		Next morning, when I woke up, everything was different.
		My birds sounded different.
		Everything looked different.
		I went to the kitchen.
		My mother looked different.
		She sounded different.
		And she said, you better not go to school.
		Well, we had a Redemptorist monastery there.
		I went to a Redemptorist priest and I told him about it.
		He said, well, you better read a book called St. John of the Cross.
		Wrote a book about mystical experience, which made sense to me.
		I went to a Jewish rabbi in the neighborhood.
		He said, oh, you have to find mystical people like yourself.
		So then I started searching.
		I went all the way through.
		I went to a monastery for three and a half years.
		And I discovered Gurdujef in Europe.
		And then I discovered Subud, which is a very good spiritual experience.
		And now I'm going to Peru to the Incas next week on a mystical journey.
		Have you been there?
		Yes.
		Well, I think it's worth going.
		What do you think?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Absolutely.
		I think you will probably find a very significant answer for you there.
		Your pathway is a very familiar one to me.
		The experience, the woman just before you mentioned around five, six, and then again, according to the questionnaires, and now that's 30-some thousand people, around 11 or 12, the experience you described is incredibly common.
		And again, these patterns, these things that are happening to people, the mystical experience seems to be on the rise.
		And I would say that you're going to find something very significant when you get to Peru, and I'd love to hear about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's a question I have for you.
		It'll be the final one of the night, probably.
		Do you consider it possible, Brad, that there could be a planet-wide sort of a spiritual shock to the system, something that would be felt by everybody short of the second coming, something that would, without even our knowledge, virtually change us overnight.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Art, I feel that intuitively.
		I have felt it since I since I was maybe after my near-death experience since I was at least 11, I wish I could see it clearly, but I feel that intuitively, and it's part of what energizes me.
		It's part of what drives me.
		It's part of what nurtures me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've considered the possibility that it could just, boom, occur all at once, and I just wanted to ask you about that.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, listen, your book, The Latest, Guardian Angels and Spirit Guides.
unidentified		Yeah.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And there we've got some fantastic stories of hard-nosed, down-to-earth people, some without any religious experience who just had extraordinary encounters that just turned their lives around, very much like we've been discussing tonight.
unidentified		Sure.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		This has a lot of my own personal experiences.
		Almost all of them are personal interviews.
		I mean, one of the stories very quickly, one of the founders of the Rangers, our versions of the Commandos in World War II, who was lost on the Sahara desert for days.
		Everyone knew he was tough, but when they found him, how could he stay alive?
		He only had a canteen of water.
		When they found him days later, his canteen was full because an angel had come every day to fill it.
		When they tested the water, it had absolutely none of the elements, none of the that would be found in the Sahara region.
		As the Catholic priest said who analyzed it, he would be tempted to call it holy water.
		I mean, it's an incredible story.
		I interviewed this man.
		He is the toughest down to earth, had no religious background or training.
		But again, when you have these experiences happen to you, and how, I mean, he was, this was, he was after Rommel.
		He got separated from his group, World War II, Sahara.
		He was out there for days, and his canteen was still more than half full because he said an angel filled it every day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's incredible.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		So this book is filled with stories like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, bookstores.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it in bookstores?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Is it in bookstores now, or I notice on your webpage, Amazon Com has it?
		But you can get both versions.
		People call and they want, do they have the big print?
		We've got both the big print, so you can order that, or you can get the mass market edition.
		So it's out in the large and the small editions, so you can order either one.
		Or go to your local bookstore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Either your 142nd or 143rd book.
unidentified		Well, that's coming up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Brad, as always, there with the time.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I loved it.
		It was, again, exciting, filled with wonderful questions, wonderful talk.
		I love it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, my friend.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		You too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Till next time.
		That's Brad Seiger, folks.
		There's nobody else like him.
		All right, tomorrow night, please inform your friends and family, Gordon Michael Scallion, very rare appearances by Gordon.
		He wants to be here tomorrow night because he has something to say to you.

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