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May 13, 1998 - Art Bell

02:52:46

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Dr. Barry Taff - Poltergeists

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	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 13th, 1998.
	From the high desert and the great American southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, as the case may be across this great land of ours.
	From the Tahitian and Hawaiian island chains, in the west, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to the pole, And worldwide on the Internet.
	This is Coast to Coast AMI, Marcel.
	Great to be here.
	In the next hour comes Barry Taft.
	Dr. Barry Taft.
	He is a world-renowned parapsychologist.
	In case you have forgotten, he is the guy who did the actual work on the movie The Entity, starring Barbara Hershey.
	I wonder if you remember that.
	He's got a new book out.
	We'll tell you all about that next hour.
	And he's got a lot of goodies for you, including Some audio tapes that I think will put a chill down your spine if it wasn't chilled last night.
	And all the news today puts a chill down my spine.
	A defiant India basically set off two more underground nuclear explosions today, saying they are the last in the series, but nobody believes them.
	And NBC did a very A very, very long piece about how the world, once again, is facing the possibility, I say again, facing the possibility of nuclear war.
	That it could happen.
	That there are a number of scenarios, you might imagine, one in which Pakistan tests its own nuclear bomb and Korea follows, and by the way, if you want something to chill you out a little, Korea today suggested that it may well abandon the promise to get rid of this old nuclear reactor so that it can continue to make bomb-grade plutonium.
	They said that today, in reaction.
	China is likely going to be nervous.
	They've got several hundred nukes stored up and so they did a big piece on all of a sudden here it is again ladies and gentlemen welcome to the possibility of nuclear holocaust and i told you when i heard that that the repercussions of that would be very very serious and so they are and they are still only but beginning so i guess maybe it's time for kids to have nightmares again i don't know maybe the world
	has to relearn lessons every so often no matter what we dropped the bomb and the world was horrified remember the world was absolutely horrified that we would do that it ended the second world war and frankly memories of it I think I've kept us from nuclear war all this time, but I wonder how long the memory really is lasting.
	It would appear now, to me, that the memory is just about faded enough that we're in danger of the possibility of nuclear war once again, and what's been going on the last few days sure does prove that.
	Today, between our Secretary of State, Madeleine Albright, and Benjamin Netanyahu, But the talks did not produce anything at all.
	They will resume their talks tomorrow, but as of today, no change.
	The Russian economy is moving slowly toward recovery, weighted heavily by corruption.
	They've got the mob there, the need for revenue.
	Russia is presently treading water.
	And it's going to be yet a long time before Russia ever catches up economically with anybody.
	Now, I want to talk to you a little bit about something that is not in the news, but absolutely ought to be.
	Incidentally, NBC, you may have seen, noted that El Nino is not yet done.
	It rained here.
	It's been raining for about the last, oh, I don't know, on and off, 24 hours.
	And I hear there is another weekend storm on the way.
	The temperature here in the desert, which should be very high right now, we should be well into our summer, is in the 40s and low 50s at best.
	There's lots of new snow on the mountain behind me.
	I'll take a photograph on the studio cam tomorrow.
	You can see it.
	The snow level I would estimate at about 5,000 feet, maybe 4,000 feet here.
	It's really something.
	I've never seen weather like this.
	Never.
	And NBC did a big piece, finally, last night, and noted that, indeed, there has not been weather like this.
	Tornadoes in southern and northern California.
	Actually, I don't even want to sit here and document it.
	The weather almost everywhere, with very few exceptions, has been astoundingly changed.
	And they interviewed scientists on NBC who said, well, yes, you would see El Nino's not gone yet.
	We may have a surprise ahead.
	Here's a fact.
	Now, this is something that isn't in the news and damn well ought to be.
	Art, I live in North Georgia.
	Dalton, Georgia.
	And there's not a cloud in the sky here tonight, but there sure is a haze over the moon.
	Last night the sky was clear and the moon was perfectly clear and visible.
	Tonight, the hazy halo around the moon has got to be a result of the fires in Mexico In parts of South America, you bet it is.
	And nobody worldwide is really reporting this.
	Isn't that interesting?
	There are fires now in Mexico, which is seeing temperatures of 118 degrees, and Guatemala as well, that have the entire Texas coast, Rio Grande Valley, to the Louisiana border, on alert, They're saying the haze is very dangerous smoke and has indeed traveled all the way from Central and South America.
	Dangerous particles in the air.
	Nobody's reporting it.
	None of the network media is reporting this event and it is an event.
	I began hearing about it last night.
	Here's another one for you.
	This comes from the news up in Canada.
	Now, Dateline San Paolo, an underground fire is smoldering and spreading underfoot in southeastern Brazil and local firefighters have no idea how to deal with it.
	Said Sergeant David Francisco de Silva, it's complicated.
	He's a firefighter in San Jose de Campos, outside San Paolo.
	He said, we're talking about a subterranean fire So you can saturate the land, but there's not much else you can do.
	The fire is burning near the surface, but is in a park area, and apparently doesn't pose a threat to anybody's property, but it is an ongoing underground fire.
	Temperatures four inches below the ash-covered surface reach 140 degrees Fahrenheit.
	140 degrees Fahrenheit. So you dig down four inches and it's 140 degrees.
	Now the reports about the very serious fires in Mexico are accurate.
	All right.
	I repeat, they are accurate.
	Very serious fires.
	Guatemala, very serious fires.
	The smoke reaching all the way, in some cases, now to the Caribbean.
	And we're not hearing much about it.
	Pretty weird, if you ask me.
	Here's a follow-up on the cat story from the Toronto Sun.
	Michael Clement wrote this in the Toronto paper there.
	Spunky the Mad Cat went home yesterday in a plastic container.
	The Siamese Tabby Cross was shot to death by police May 4th when she went berserk and attacked guests at her owner's Weston Road apartment.
	Her owner said, I miss her.
	Who picked up Spunky's cremated remains yesterday.
	She used to sleep with me.
	She'd run to the door every time we came home and meow.
	She wasn't a bad cat.
	Said this young waitress, 24.
	This cat, normally docile, suddenly went crazy.
	Jumped on the leg of one of this young lady's party guests.
	Madly scratching and attacking anyone who tried to touch her.
	When put in the bathroom, Spunky was howling and head-butting the door.
	The owner claims she is too upset, too, by the number of anonymous abusive calls they've received.
	They just can't believe the police had to shoot her.
	They think she must have been given alcohol or drugs or something.
	They're calling us a bunch of losers.
	We weren't partying.
	I don't do drugs.
	Never have.
	There was no alcohol around.
	No one harmed her.
	We wouldn't do that, she said.
	But, nevertheless, Spunky is now a bag o' ashes.
	In a moment, I'll do a little more and we'll open slides.
	Listen, I do want to make note.
	You might want to go up to the website.
	After the blast by Benson's attorneys, And they did send a blast at us, and they made us... You know, I had on the website, with proper credit given, you know, the two cartoons that Benson had done of me, Steve Benson, the Arizona Republic.
	And that's all we had up there, the two that he had done of me, with my name on them.
	But we got a threatening letter from their attorneys, and they said, Take them off, or else!
	Well, we took them off.
	However, Matter of fact, you can see the letter they wrote up there.
	However, we are now initiating our View of Benson Contest.
	And you are welcome to be part of it.
	It's one of the fun little things we do here.
	We've decided to to volley back at the Arizona Republic and Steve Benson by allowing you My listening audience, and in many cases, his viewing audience, to submit your view of Benson.
	That's right, your view of Benson.
	And we already have the first three posted up there on the website right now.
	If you would like to see what the first three people who did something think of their view of Benson, It's a free First Amendment world out there, folks.
	So, you make the cartoons, send them to my webmaster, and the award-winning cartoons will be posted on the website, just like three we've got up there right now.
	They're great.
	Great.
	If you're a bit of an artist with a sense of humor, and you have a view of Benson that you would like to air, please send them to my Ever so attentive webmaster, the very creative webmaster that I have, Keith Rowland.
	And so we're asking you to submit your view of Benson to Keith Rowland by sending it to him at the following email address.
	Keith, K-E-I-T-H, R, KeithR at PrimeNet.com.
	Keith R. at PrimeNet.com or Webmaster at ArtBell.com.
	And if you want to go up and take a look at what two or three creative people have already accomplished for us,
	you're welcome to do that.
	They're a riot.
	Call it www.artbell.com.
	So if Benson wants to know how the public views him, he's going to have to log on to the website.
	My guess is he will be doing just that.
	So we may not be able to post the cartoons which they published with my name, but we can publish our view of Benson and we are going to do that as you can readily see by looking at the website tonight.
	So by all means, send your entries to my very astute, anxious webmaster at webmaster at artbell.com.
	Or Keith R. K-E-I-T-H-R, all lowercase, at primenet.com.
	We'll look forward to getting more entries.
	Coast to Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
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	Simply visit coasttocoastam.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
	Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM has a new name, Coast
	You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price, just 15 cents a day when you sign up for one year.
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	Plus, you'll get streamed and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bell's Somewhere in Time shows and two weekly classics.
	And as a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Norrie and special guests.
	If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
	Visit coast2coastam.com to sign up today.
	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	I can't think of a time where also the world was in total chaos.
	You know, people are weirded out.
	And I'm beginning to wonder if there's something on this planet that's affecting people's brains.
	I believe that we are in uncharted, tenuous, tumultuous, unprecedented time.
	You know, wake up!
	Something is happening globally to this planet and it's not normal.
	It's just not business as usual.
	Now, we take you back to the night of May 13th, 1998, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Alright, something very interesting.
	I can tell you partly about it, a little bit about it.
	The other night, I told the story of an acquaintance of mine And a lot of people in the UFO science community know this man very well.
	His name is Robert Bigelow, Bob Bigelow, and he's a multi-guzillionaire.
	Got a lot of money.
	And he funds grants into areas of interest with regard to the afterlife, with regard to anomalous objects that fly in our skies, that sort of thing.
	And we had a long, very interesting conversation.
	A kind of a what's next conversation earlier today, and it's odd that I would hear from him because I had just spoken of him the other morning on the air.
	I think something very productive may come of this.
	And I wonder how he's going to react to my idea.
	This is Mr. behind the scenes kind of guy, you know?
	And it just hit me as I was contemplating our conversation earlier today, that maybe I ought to have him on the air.
	Maybe that's what I ought to do.
	Maybe that's what I'm going to do.
	Doesn't hurt to ask anyway.
	The man has a lot of very, very interesting, intriguing, in fact, ideas and abilities.
	And because of his resources, he can get the scientists that really matter to do the kind of research that he would like them to do.
	We've grant money.
	I mean, you know, money talks and everything else marches away at some slower speed.
	So, maybe the thing to do is have Bob Bigelow on the air.
	Maybe I'll do that next week.
	By the way, coming up tomorrow night is Michio Kaku, Dr. Kaku, Professor Kaku.
	And he'll be talking about this incredible explosion.
	Absolutely an incredible explosion.
	Coming up next Tuesday, we'll just call him A general.
	He's a general, okay?
	And he knows things that he wants to talk about, but we'll call him General A. And he's going to come here with a voice changer and at the behest of Dr. Roger Lear.
	And he's got a lot he wants to say publicly for the first time.
	That's going to be a shocker.
	That'll be Tuesday.
	Wednesday, Professor Paul Dixon, next Wednesday, Who is going to talk about supernova from experimentation.
	This is really a wild one.
	So, there's an awful lot coming up, an awful lot I'm thinking of doing and thinking about.
	As you know, come this Friday, at about three in the afternoon, I guess, I am going to be in Ketchikan, Alaska, where I will board the Slotin-Dom on my way toward Vancouver British Columbia
	And I guess I'll be in BC Columbia about British Columbia.
	I don't know something like about nine o'clock in the morning
	I believe about nine o'clock in the morning And then Sunday we're going to do dreamland. I'll be there
	Sunday at nine o'clock and then Sunday night We'll do dreamland from C fun in Vancouver and my guest is
	going to be live with me just off the cruise Danion Brinkley
	So all of that lies immediately ahead.
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 13, 1998.
	This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast AM concert.
	I'm old like a wheel that's turning My love is dead right
	My love is dead right My love is dead right
	My love is dead right You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 13th, 1998.
	Boy, every now and then, it just happens.
	You fall in love.
	With music.
	And of course, women.
	But music, it's, there's a music spot of the brain, I'm convinced, and this young lady really has jumped into mine.
	Her name is Lorena McKenna.
	And she's absolutely amazing.
	Now, talk about the world of coincidence.
	I'm going to be arriving in Vancouver, assuming everything runs correctly, and I'm sure it will.
	Holland America Lines is really good about that sort of thing.
	I'll be in Vancouver, 9 o'clock, Sunday morning.
	We'll do Dreamland from CFUN, my affiliate there, in Vancouver.
	It should be a blast, with Dannion Brinkley, Sunday night.
	And then, synchronistically, if you believe things are this synchronistic, Lorena McKenna will go on stage about 30 minutes after I finish Dreamland.
	So I'm going to go see Lorena McKenna.
	Incredible.
	Do you believe in coincidences?
	Ha ha ha!
	Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM has a new name!
	Coast Insider.
	You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price.
	The package includes podcasting, which automatically downloads shows for you, and the iPhone app.
	You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows.
	That's over a thousand shows for you to collect and enjoy.
	If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
	Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up.
	Now we take you back to the night of May 13th, 1998, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	This is interesting, I know.
	I read it a long time ago.
	Somebody sent it to me again.
	If we could shrink the Earth's population to a village of precisely 100 people, With all existing human ratios, here's how the village would look.
	There would be, among this 100, there'd be 57 Asians, 21 Europeans, 14 from the Western Hemisphere, North and South, and 8 Africans.
	Africans. 51 would be female, 49 male, 70 would be non-white, 30 would be white, 70
	would be non-christian, Thirty would be Christian.
	Wow!
	Fifty percent of the entire world's wealth would be in the hands of only six people, and all six would be citizens of the United States.
	Eighty would live in substandard housing.
	Seventy would be unable to read.
	Fifty would suffer malnutrition.
	That's half.
	One would be near death.
	One near birth.
	Only one would have a college education.
	Nobody would own a computer.
	Imagine that.
	If you took the world as a whole and reduced it down to 100 people, that's the village you would get.
	And I don't think it would do what the First Lady imagines the village would do.
	What do you think?
	These are the Rockies.
	You're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Oh, just two things I wanted to talk about.
	A little correction.
	A lot of people who talk about spiritual things, about extra-dimensional beings, I would probably say they'd be wrong.
	It'd be more like exo-dimensional, because it'd be more like something outside time-space and all the dimensions that any physicist would be able to describe.
	Well, it's certainly possible.
	It's as possible as anything else.
	I just thought that would be better.
	In regard to this nuclear thing going on?
	Yes.
	I think it has a lot to do with President Clinton and Hillary Clinton and their newly exposed stance toward Israel.
	Because I really have a strong belief that as long as any country is pro-Israel, that things are going to go good for them.
	And if they're not, then the world will start to shake.
	And strange things, really bad things will start to happen.
	If you look at all the news with respect to India, Pakistan, North Korea, China, the bad news is happening.
	What do you think?
	Well, I think that we'll be in a huge financial crisis the very moment that we take any funding away from Israel.
	If we stop that, we're pretty much going to be screwed.
	Why?
	If you believe what's in the Bible, you'll... Oh, I see, I see.
	You mean we will then set... Our removing that $3 billion or however much it is a year from Israel would set the world on a collision course with the end.
	Well, no, just the United States.
	Alright, I appreciate your call, sir.
	Thank you.
	And I'm not suggesting that we do that.
	I would never suggest that we do that.
	Can you imagine that?
	Stopping the aid to Israel would be... I know a lot of people would salivate at the very prospect of doing that.
	But if you have been to Israel, you will understand why we give aid.
	I mean, if you've ever been to Israel and understand what they have in common with us, as in the U.S., despite some friction we've had with them, and you look around what's around Israel, you would understand why we give aid to Israel.
	Well, there you are.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hey, how's it going?
	It's going.
	Hey, I heard your son smashed up your Geo Metro.
	Smashed it good.
	Yeah, wow.
	Rolled it.
	Rolled it.
	You know, it's like anybody, I think, who gets a new teenage boy gets a license, driver's license.
	Been there, done that.
	Do the wild thing at 702-727-1295.
	Pretty lucky.
	Yeah.
	But I wanted to ask you, what kind of car did you get that you pushed off the Metro on him?
	Pushed off?
	Well, sold or... I gave it to him.
	Or gave or whatever.
	Maybe that was my mistake, you know?
	Uh-huh.
	I don't know.
	I've got a Trans Am Firebird.
	How about that?
	Wow.
	One of the new ones?
	Yeah.
	Midnight Blue.
	Dark...
	It's kind of between blue and black.
	It's the damnedest color you've ever seen.
	Well, we know who's going to be getting some speeding tickets now, don't we?
	Well, let us not make presumptions.
	Okay, we shall not.
	Precipitous, precipitous presumptions.
	But yeah, the answer is probably yeah.
	I had a request for a guest for you to interview.
	I saw that movie.
	The new one, the Deep Impact movie?
	Yes.
	And at the beginning they had like an astronomer and he was punching in all this stuff with a telescope.
	And I know you've had some astronomers you interviewed before, but you never really got down into detail on how that stuff works.
	And I don't know, I kind of... You'd like to see an astronomer on the show?
	Well alright, I'll do that and I see what you're saying.
	I just read a very good book about Mount Palomar Observatory.
	A really good book.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi Art.
	Hello.
	I heard your son rolled your Geo Metro.
	Well, he rolled his Geo Metro.
	Well, I've got a 19 year old son.
	He drives a 77 Chevy Impala.
	I've got him in a tank so he'll be protected if anything happens.
	Well, you know, you could see it coming.
	I mean, he was nailing stationary objects right and left.
	Yeah.
	A fence here, you know, a thing on the bumper there, a missing mirror over there because it scraped a tree.
	And so, it was like, it was like, you know, there's no way this is going to be avoided.
	And of course, it wasn't.
	Yeah.
	Was he hurt?
	Not even a scratch.
	He's very fortunate there.
	Uh, he had his seatbelt on.
	Uh-huh.
	I insist that my son use his seatbelt.
	Mm-hmm.
	Of course.
	What he does when he's away from me, God only knows.
	But I wanted to give you an idea.
	You might want to get him a tank.
	A tank?
	Well, you know, 70-70.
	I might want to put him in a tank.
	All right.
	Well, listen, thank you very much.
	I appreciate the call.
	I think that he can contemplate Uh, for a while, uh, driving before he actually gets to drive again.
	And it's really a shame, too, because when he got the car, when I gave him the car, you know, it was like Christmas, of course, I mean, here he is of an age to drive, and so I gave him the car, and he was so in love with it that he would go out in the driveway and he'd sit in the car for hours.
	Just sit there.
	Dreaming the dream.
	This was before he got his license and I gave him the car.
	He would sit in the car, literally for hours, just enjoying his own space.
	And he was so in love with that car.
	And now, look at it.
	Dense city.
	Crushed city.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, Art.
	This is Jeff.
	I've been trying to get a hold of you for some time now.
	Okay, Jeff.
	Here I am.
	Uh, got a couple things for you real quick.
	Yes?
	Uh, I've, uh, been working with some, uh, photos from, uh, uh, the MGS.
	MGS?
	Yes.
	What's that?
	Uh, Mars Global Surveyor.
	Ah, thank you.
	All right, you've been looking at the Mars photos, and?
	Yes, I've been looking in areas outside of, uh, Cydonia, and, uh, came across several things.
	I've been sending you some faxes, uh, on the JLM region.
	So what is it you see?
	I see a lot of things that shouldn't be there.
	Like what?
	Geometric shapes, structures, buildings.
	Buildings?
	Yes.
	Well, there are a lot of people who think they see buildings in the photographs that we now have.
	Richard Hoagland certainly does.
	Many others who have looked at the photographs do.
	Even I, when I look at some of them, I'll be damned if it doesn't look like buildings that in some cases have no roof or part of a wall.
	Otherwise, yeah.
	They look like buildings.
	Ruins.
	Yeah, this goes way beyond that.
	What I'm going to do, I'm going to send you a set of these photos.
	What have you got?
	Cameras?
	Nails?
	Power tools?
	I'll send them email.
	Alright, email them to me.
	I'll look forward to them.
	Whatever it is.
	No jokes, please.
	Everybody thinks it's so funny.
	I have to put a really weird thing on Mars.
	Look what I can do with Photoshop, Ma.
	And, you know, so I end up with all kinds of things like, uh, Abrams tanks on Mars and that kind of thing.
	People send me photographs of all that sort of thing.
	Trying to display their talent for morphing.
	Uh, Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Oh, I'm on.
	Uh, it would appear so.
	Hey, I've got a suggestion for a guest.
	Uh... Do you?
	Well, where are you?
	I'm in Sacramento Valley.
	Okay.
	I wanted to commend you first about the kind of show you have.
	I'm glad there's somebody willing to step outside of the kind of restricted... Yeah, that's me.
	...sanitized, stereotypical... Boring!
	...show that you hear all the time.
	I know.
	I know.
	They're all the same.
	They came out of some little cookie cutter thing and somebody said, you know, here's what you gotta do on talk radio.
	Boom.
	Better do that.
	That's your road to success.
	Yeah, well, I think probably most of them would probably call you a kook.
	They do.
	Or... Oh, they do.
	Or the ultimate dismissal of all, which is conspiracy theorists.
	Oh, they do.
	They do.
	And, uh... I don't care.
	So anyway, I... See, that's what they don't understand is I don't care.
	I hear it all the time from my colleagues in talk radio.
	They're going nuts.
	And they make jokes and stuff when people call and mention my name.
	That's okay.
	I don't care.
	I really don't.
	Anyway, so I really like to try and find as many, I guess, unconventional sources as possible.
	Me too.
	But anyway, there's a lot of people I could mention that might be guests.
	Give me your time.
	Top choice.
	Pardon me?
	Top choice.
	Have you ever interviewed Maury Terry?
	No.
	I don't even know who he is.
	Who is he?
	He's an author and reporter.
	He wrote a book called The Ultimate Evil.
	Have you ever heard of that?
	Sounds good.
	So far, The Ultimate Evil.
	The Ultimate Evil, yeah.
	Well, he was investigating the Son of Sam case in New York.
	Oh, yes, yes, yes.
	And what he discovered was despite the official police version that David Berkowitz was the lone guy, he found out that actually there was a number of people involved in the killings and they belonged to a satanic cult and the murders were actually ritual murders and that there was this kind of a network of All right, you've got me hooked.
	That's enough.
	That's enough.
	All I need is a way to contact this person.
	Well, I just sent you something in the mail today and I really don't know exactly how to contact him.
	That's always the problem.
	But I do know that in the book he mentioned that he was in contact with Steve Dunleavy of the New York Post.
	And several other news people.
	And I wrote that down in my letter.
	I could probably get hold of Steve.
	That I could do.
	All right, sir.
	Thank you very much.
	And I would like to urge any of you who want me to have a guest on to take pity on me and try and include some kind of contact information.
	I book all my own guests.
	Nobody does that for me.
	I book my own.
	Because there's really... I often wonder about other talk show hosts and how they do that.
	You know, they have some producer who's booking guests for them, and how does the producer really know what the talk show host wants to do?
	I've frequently wondered about that.
	I don't do it that way, and maybe there is some sort of camaraderie that develops between the host and the producer, and the producer anticipates what the host wants.
	But I've just never been comfortable with letting anybody else do that kind of thing for me.
	So I usually talk to my guests beforehand and see if they're The kind of people that you would enjoy.
	And that gives you about an 80% success rate, and then about 20% of them get on the air and are total bombs.
	But at least when you do it yourself, you know, most of the time it works out.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Eric Bell.
	This is Daryl from Salem, Oregon.
	Hi, Daryl.
	I wanted to tell you, I had sent you a tape here a while ago.
	And it basically tells about a theory of Mars used to be, not actually in our orbit, but used to fly by on a 54 year flyby.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	You mean then it would go shooting back out into the universe to come back 54 years later?
	Is that what you're talking about?
	Yes.
	The theory is that this guy studied ancient cultures, all their folklore, and stuff like this.
	Yes.
	They feel that it might have been captured in our orbit about 700 B.C., approximately the time... No, it's not.
	It's captured by the orbit of the Sun.
	Of our Sun.
	No, it's actually... It's captured by the Sun.
	The gravitational pull of the Sun, I believe.
	I don't think the Earth.
	Mars does not orbit the Earth.
	It joins us in orbiting the Sun.
	No, but it was actually captured in our orbit on a close flight by coming by Earth was captured in the Sun's orbit.
	They feel that... Okay, here's what's wrong with that theory.
	They know that perhaps half a billion years ago there was a giant flood on Mars.
	Right?
	They've got the floodplains, the rest of it.
	Right?
	So, if Mars had been out orbiting the universe and away from the sun, it could not have had the atmosphere that they say it had.
	It could not have the water that they say it had, and so forth and so on.
	So, what do you say to that?
	I never really considered that.
	What they made sort of sense is that we used to have a 360 day calendar.
	And, uh, up till about, uh, somewhere around 700 B.C., all the cultures all over the world changed to the 365 day and a quarter.
	And they feel that that's, you know, not only studying, they use the Bible, the Torah, all the Incas, and stuff like that.
	Well, listen, I would love to continue this with you, but unfortunately I am at the top of the hour, so we'll talk again about this sometime, alright?
	Okay.
	Take care.
	I just don't see how it could have happened, because As nobody can hear you scream in space, planetary-wise, if Mars had been out there zooming around, it certainly would not have had atmosphere in the water or anything else, because it would not have been near a nourishing star.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 13, 1998.
	♪♪♪ ♪♪♪
	you Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired May 13, 1998.
	In a moment, coming up, we've got... a serious heavyweight.
	And I mean heavyweight, Dr. Barry Tapp.
	Wait till you hear about this fellow.
	He's... Boy, he's... Well, I'll read the bio in a moment.
	It's absolutely amazing what he's done.
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	Visit coast2coastam.com to sign up today.
	Weird stories on the radio?
	Must be Coast to Coast AM with George Norris.
	You know, when I started doing this radio program, Jesse, half of the subjects I was really into, the paranormal, the unusual, ghosts and things like that.
	The conspiracy stories, you know, I was a little weary about these, other than the Kennedy assassination.
	And all of a sudden, I woke up.
	I simply woke up.
	Is that what happened with you two?
	Yeah.
	That's when I really started to say, what is going on here?
	And I started to truly then investigate 9-11.
	And today, I don't believe the government story of 9-11.
	Here's the three options.
	Either we knew about it and allowed it to happen, or we knew about it and participated in it, or these were the dumbest, food that could have ever been in charge of our country who
	could have all this pre-information and I started to think they knew what was going to happen.
	They either are part of it or they allowed it to. There's no doubt in my mind. Now we take you
	back to the night of May 13, 1998 on Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Listen to this.
	Dr. Berrytaff is a world-renowned parapsychologist who worked out of UCLA's former parapsychology laboratory from 1969 through 1978 as a research associate.
	He holds a doctorate in physio-psychology.
	Is that right?
	Psychophysiology.
	That's probably right.
	With a minor in biomedical engineering from UCLA.
	During his 30-year career, Dr. Taft has investigated more than 3,500 cases of ghosts, hauntings, poltergeists, and has conducted extensive studies in telepathy, precognition, remote viewing.
	He was also himself investigated as a psychic subject, the results of which were published in Behavioral Neuropsychiatry.
	A Laboratory Investigation of Telepathy, The Study of a Psychic, Volumes 6, Numbers 1 through 12.
	One of the cases Dr. Taft investigated in 1974, you may recall, gained international fame as the book in motion picture, The Entity, starring Barbara Hershey.
	Released by Fox in 1983, it was a really frightening motion picture.
	Barbara Hershey was repeatedly attacked, sexually assaulted, uh... in the movie it was a real life occurrence so she portrayed that but uh... continuously assaulted by an entity Dr. Taft has appeared on numerous TV and radio programs including Strange Universe, Unsolved Mysteries, The Joan Rivers Show, Current Affair, Hard Copy, Sightings, Judge for Yourself, The Extraordinary, and a recurring guest on NBC's The Other Side now check this out
	He has consulted for government, business, and law enforcement, including the CIA, ONI, NSA, DLI, DIA, DARPA, the FBI, Interpol, LAPD, California Highway Patrol, Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department, and the Westminster Police Department.
	Wow!
	He has served as a technical advisor or script doctor on the films Logan's Run, Demon Seed, Altered States, Poltergeist, and The Entity.
	He's written numerous articles for magazines and journals, has been featured in many books on paranormal subjects ranging from precognition to UFOs.
	Dr. Tapp is also the co-inventor of six medical patents which are currently being developed for the market.
	His new book, Aliens Above, Ghosts Below, Explorations of the Unknown, Has just recently been published on the internet.
	What an amazing past.
	Dr. Taft, welcome to the show.
	Oh, it's a pleasure to be here.
	Is there any alphabet agency here that you missed?
	The National Institute of Mental Health.
	What is the DLI?
	Defense Language Institute.
	The Defense Language Institute.
	Just as a matter of curiosity, what is it like dealing with the CIA?
	Well, it's like you're dealing with people that are never there, and everything's sort of, uh, kind of quiet.
	You don't get direct answers.
	You never really know what's going on.
	You can't ask a lot of poignant questions.
	You have to find national security, you know, like five times over.
	So, in other words, it's exactly what we imagine it to be.
	It's a little worse, actually.
	A little worse, actually.
	I mean, the people were nice, but they're kind of cold, apathetic, very distant, detached.
	And, um, it's...
	They're as paranoid of you as you are of them.
	Maybe that's a good thing.
	Well, perhaps, depending on who you're dealing with.
	But it's like the old oxymoron of military intelligence or government intelligence you can't use.
	Yes, of course.
	All right.
	A lot of my audience has never heard you before.
	You did the original investigation on the real entity story, the one Barbara Hershey was in.
	And I suppose we should give our new audience a little bit of history about what that really was like, as opposed to what the movie showed us.
	Oh, yes.
	It was, well, as you read in my book, I discuss quite in depth the differences between the movie and reality.
	And in some ways, reality was a lot more interesting than the movie.
	Really?
	Because, you know, we captured a lot more Evidence, we had a lot more personal experiences, and I'll sort of try to chronicle that now.
	When you're investigating hauntings and poltergeist activity or apparitions, you spend a lot of time talking to people and just collecting data, meaning stories, anecdotal information.
	Sure.
	It's very rare to be in the environment, the field environment, and to witness something, and it's even rare to be in the environment and to record something while you're visually observing it.
	It's extremely rare.
	It's like the probability of being in an airport with a camcorder, and there happens to be a crash of an airliner while you're there.
	It's like astronomical probability.
	Yeah, to be in the right place with the right equipment when something actually really happens.
	Right, the phenomena, whatever the nature of it is, happens to be cooperative or present when you're present, which is extremely rare.
	So it all began when my colleague at the time was in Hunter Books in Westwood, really down from the UCLA campus, And he was talking with one of his friends about the work we do and some women on the other side of one of the bookshelves was overhearing his conversation and she just casually said, my house is haunted.
	And of course we get that all the time.
	People just throw it at us as a big joke and rather than trying to engage this woman in a detailed conversation in that environment, my colleague thought it would be best if he just took her name and number and we'd get back to her another time.
	Was she a young woman?
	Right, the woman's name was Doris.
	So we called Mrs. B in the original article, but her first name is Doris, so we referred to her as Doris.
	We made an appointment to come out to FEAR, rather than just interview on the phone, since she lived really close to where we did.
	She lived in Culver City, and we lived in West Los Angeles.
	So we went out to FEAR.
	It was August of 1974, and we sat down and basically said, tell us a story.
	What are your experiences?
	What's happening here?
	And the first thing she told us was that she'd been repeatedly sexually accosted by three entities.
	And my colleague and I looked at each other, and our eyes essentially rolled back in our heads, and I thought, we both thought, oh my God, this woman's very disturbed.
	You know, actually, I was going to go even further back than that, and I was going to ask you, so many people will say something like that, but what was it about this woman That made you even take the step to physically take the time and trouble to go and see her.
	She must have stood out in some way.
	Well, when she came up to my colleagues, she was very distressed.
	She was very on edge and nervous.
	The key note in dealing with people that contact us in terms of an investigation is that fear seems to be the primary reason, the fundamental reason they call.
	You want to know what's going on, how do they deal with it, what's the nature of it.
	And of course, how do you end it, which is something we don't deal with.
	We try to document it.
	Okay, I understand.
	Yeah, that's very reasonable, and I now understand.
	She was genuinely, obviously fearful.
	Right, and that's the, in what you're dealing with, you know, a simple poltergeist manifestation or an abduction, the keynote, The operative word seems to be fear.
	Even so, you get to her house, and she starts talking about the attacks, and you're rolling your eyes.
	Right.
	The minute she said that, I thought, oh my God.
	Normally, when we reach a level in an investigation where it's obvious that people are suffering from some form of psychopathology, I just stamp the top of the form with a red T, meaning that the person is emotionally disturbed.
	And we followed away.
	But we listened to her story.
	We thought, we're there, might as well hear everything she's got to say.
	And she said that there were three male entities.
	Two would hold her down and one would attack her.
	And she described seeing various objects move and strange apparitions of this, like an Asian or Oriental type of a being.
	And that her children, some of her children, actually witnessed this.
	She was being sexually attacked?
	Uh, not that sexual, but her being thrown around or bounced around the house like a rag doll.
	We took it all down and made some audio recordings and took a lot of notes after a lot of questions about it, but we didn't really think it was worth pursuing because it seemed like she basically needed psychiatric evaluation.
	So you put the P there.
	And we thought, thank you very much for the interview, and if anything further happens, please feel free to call us.
	There's our phone number at the lab.
	That was it, and she called.
	We thought that would be the end of it.
	And about a week later we heard from her, and she said that now her neighbor had witnessed it as well.
	Well, that took on a whole different dimension.
	I understand.
	All of a sudden, let's go talk to the neighbor.
	Well, you see, these types of investigations, you're dealing with what we call corroborative testimony, that other people have seen the same thing.
	Of course.
	At other times, or multiple witnesses.
	Without that, and or your own observations and recording, You know, it's the big fish story.
	Yeah, I know.
	But once you've got that, it's all up two or three notches.
	Right.
	So we went back a week later, and this is interesting.
	It was August.
	It was still August.
	And it was very, very warm and muggy that evening.
	And yet the house was uniquely cold.
	It was distinctively cold.
	You'd walk in and it would shiver.
	And the bedroom, where it seemed to be the loci, the phenomena, was particularly cold.
	Yet there was no No draft or no breeze.
	There was no air conditioning on the house.
	We talked to her some more.
	She described seeing strange things.
	We listened.
	We talked to the neighbor independently of her.
	She told us pretty much reinforced what Doris had said.
	But we still felt it could be a case of hysterical contamination.
	The people are just on edge and they're sharing stories.
	Okay, Doctor, the first thing I've got to ask is, if I walked into a room where I suspected an entity and it was cold, I'd whip out a thermometer so fast... Oh, we did.
	We brought some, and whatever the presence was in terms of the reduction in temperature did not register on any thermometer we had.
	But you felt... Oh, it was very distinctive physically.
	I mean, it was like you'd walk in and you felt like, you know, there was a... Gotcha.
	The A.C.
	was on full.
	Alright.
	Anyway, this progressed.
	Now, my colleague was interviewing her in the kitchen, Doris.
	And, well, during the interview, this is one of many, we walked around the house talking with her, a lower cabinet door swung open, and a skillet flew out, taking a parabolic course across the kitchen, landing on the floor with a thud.
	It didn't fall, it arced out, it flew under its own power.
	Now, your colleague saw this?
	Yes, I was in another room at the time, taking some controlled photographs, and he saw this, and he yelled, of course, and I ran back in the kitchen.
	And we checked to make sure there were no wires or springs or people hidden in the lower cabinets, and of course there weren't.
	And it was rather astonishing.
	It progressed on from that point to where we began witnessing little things moving around the house, small objects moving.
	But it took on a bigger dimension where we began seeing pops of light.
	Really?
	what we called corpuscular masses of light that look like little tiny comets
	splitting about the house and really since fireflies do not occur out here we
	thought what is this so began to subtly attempt to control the environment
	peeling off the house from external light sources Right.
	By doing this, it naturally amplified these weak light sources and they were very distinctive and point sources of light that were self-luminous flying about the house.
	You could see them?
	We saw them and we did in fact capture one of them with a camera.
	With a camera?
	With a 35mm camera with Tri-X film shot at a very high speed.
	And pushed in development, what you see is a ball of light with a tail on it.
	And this depicted almost precisely what we were seeing.
	Is that on your website?
	Yes.
	These pictures are contained in the book and they're also on the site.
	Alright, we've got a link to your site tonight so people can go out and take a look.
	Right.
	Now what's intriguing is that these lights were always greenish-yellow, like a lime green.
	Why, I don't know, but they were distinctively Colored in that way.
	I don't know why, we don't know what it meant, but we began to see this.
	And there was also two other physical aspects of this, the early onset of the case.
	One was a distinctive odor, a pervasive stench of decomposing or rotting organic matter.
	Oh, great.
	And it was so profuse that a couple people that came with assistance to help us got very sick and had to leave the house.
	And this has happened, but we've had this Prior to this, and since then, in many other cases.
	But another thing, which is the most common physical characteristic that we've encountered in 30 years, is the sense of overpressure.
	And the way I describe this is, what you feel if you go in a deep pool at about 10, 12 feet, where you feel tremendous pressure on your ears.
	Of course.
	But we get this, you know, basically at room temperature, at sea level, in these environments, and sometimes it's supposed to be that people go to grab their ears, and hold their nose and blow to equalize the pressure.
	Again, this I assume could not be measured with barometric pressure.
	No, we tried that and we did nothing.
	It seemed to affect people but it didn't affect instruments.
	And this was quite intense and it was very disturbing because everybody kept holding their nose and blowing and nothing happened.
	The case evolved.
	It evolved further to where to see more brilliant balls of light that seemed to be
	responsive to our verbal commands, like we'd ask things and things would show up in response
	to our questions or comments.
	And the son, her 16-year-old son, who had by the way witnessed one instance where Doris
	was bouncing around like a rag doll, he would try to go to her aid.
	Something picked him up and threw him in the wall, flipped him over and broke his back.
	And this course terrified the son and they try to stay away from home as much as possible.
	We did see and record some more lights, but the lights we saw, what we recorded on 35mm film did not resemble what we saw.
	We saw balls of light flying about the room like comets.
	What we caught seemed to be time lapses, these arcs.
	One of the arcs frames Doris perfectly, as if it's somehow related to her.
	Uh huh.
	And we didn't see this, but maybe our film speed or the shutter speed was too low.
	So it would be like if you had a camera and tried to photograph stars, you didn't have
	a moving platform, you'd get a streak.
	This might be the same thing we're getting at time and space.
	Oh, I understand.
	And it was very impressive.
	And some of the arcs demonstrate dimensionality in the sense that behind them, the walls meet
	at a nine degree angle, yet these arcs are in free space, indicating that they're not
	projected against the wall.
	You would immediately, I suppose, begin, if you could, experimenting with different speeds of film.
	Yes.
	Probably trying to speed it up.
	Yes, and it didn't make any difference.
	We shot as fast as we could go, both in film and shutter speed, and we still got the same thing.
	Now, we did submit these photographs, the negatives, for analysis by a number of people.
	One was the West Coast editor of Popular Photography.
	In the mid-70s, and he said he's never seen anything like these, and he couldn't begin to explain their nature.
	In fact, in some of the pictures, the arcs are at almost 90 degree angles to each other, and the woman, Doris, is not even in the room as if the phenomenon is present when she's not physically in that space.
	Well, apparently it was.
	Apparently it was.
	How frequently was this woman actually being attacked?
	It's hard to say, because we weren't there Every night, but it was occurring, like, probably every couple of weeks or every couple of days at times, but what we saw was just quite phenomenal.
	Now, one evening... All right, hold it right there.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	It's a great hook.
	We're talking about The Entity.
	They made a movie about it, starring Barbara Hershey, but this is the real story.
	This is really what happened.
	And if you've heard this before, we're going to finish telling this story and then we're going to move into new areas.
	Specifically, UFOs, which Dr. Taff has never talked about before.
	And I'll tell you why it is of particular interest to me.
	Aerial phenomena and PSI phenomena.
	Could they be tied?
	Stay right there.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 13, 1998.
	Oh, oh, oh, oh Take a trip to the city lights
	Take the long way home Take the long way home
	You'll never see what you wanna see Forever playing to the gallery
	Take the long way home Take the long way home
	When you're up one day, there's no one to lead you home.
	Oh, don't forget I love you.
	I adore you.
	Then your wife seems to think you're losing track of you.
	Unforgettable, I adore you Then you ask him to take you to the zoo inside the zoo
	How can I believe, with no way out Oh yeah
	Oh yeah Oh yeah
	Oh yeah You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier
	Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 13th, 1998.
	Dr. Barry Taff is my guest.
	He was the principal investigator in the Entity case, the one they made the movie about.
	Except he investigated the real case.
	And so you're hearing the real story.
	I'll tell you something.
	The moment A kitchen cabinet opened and a frying pan took a parabolic arc across the room.
	I'd be, uh, beaten a real straight line right through the door.
	Man, I would be out of there.
	Anyway, we'll get back to Dr. Taft in a moment.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from May 13th, 1998.
	Back now to Dr. Taft.
	Dr. Taff, welcome back.
	We were in the middle Of this story about the lights and the flying stuff and all the rest of this and this poor woman.
	This was in California?
	This was in Culver City, California.
	Culver City, all right.
	1970, summer of 1974.
	So it just, it continues.
	Well, today, no.
	No, no, no, no, no.
	No, I meant the story.
	Right, from when we left off.
	See, we obtained some photographs, and the lights were very interesting, but we couldn't tell how big they were, we couldn't tell the speed at which they were traveling, because we had no reference.
	So we covered her bedroom walls and ceilings with black poster board and used duct tape to stick them on the ceilings and walls.
	And unfortunately, whatever the phenomenon was, it again demonstrated its uncooperativeness or lack of cooperativeness.
	And it began tearing off the poster boards.
	And we got a frantic call at midnight.
	Doris ran back down there.
	It tore off the poster boards, tore off the paint and the plaster with them.
	Wow!
	And now, obviously, she could have done it, but she was a very small, diminutive woman, and I don't think she would go to this extreme to prove anything to us.
	But at the same time, the fuse box was torn out of the wall and thrown at her, and some kind of lobbers were thrown at her.
	But we still were suspicious.
	But beyond that, the investigation continued.
	Her son said there were some records that he put out.
	There were some heavy rock albums that dealt with weird, demonic garbage.
	He said if these particular records were on, The phenomenon would peak and, you know, always occur.
	So it just, you know, to see if anything would happen, we put the records on, and we tolerated this insufferable music.
	And sure enough, when the records reached their peak, their crescendo, the lights appeared.
	Well, they drove Noriega out with it, you know.
	Right.
	And at one point, a full apparition formed.
	A body, a full, well, not a full body, a half-bodied apparition from the waist up.
	You could see a large upper torso, arms, shoulders, neck, head.
	Of a very large-bodied man, but you could make out no salient characteristics in the face.
	You saw this?
	We all saw this.
	You all saw this?
	He fired off hundreds and hundreds of frames of film.
	This was before there were portable video equipment, so we didn't have that.
	Might a person ask how the hell you managed to stand there with an apparition right in front of you?
	I know I understand that you're professionals, but even at that, How do you stand your ground?
	I'd be gone.
	Well, your heart rate increases, but again, this is what you're looking for.
	This is why you're there.
	It would, you know, be kind of foolish to, you know, vacate the premises if what you're looking for finally makes an appearance.
	Yeah, you're right.
	Now, at the same time, I should mention we had a couple of assistants who basically hit the floor when this happened.
	We heard thuds.
	We thought something flew off the walls, and it was two of my assistants basically losing consciousness based on what they saw.
	Now, that would have been me.
	It was quite amazing.
	Again, the apparitions, the luminous apparitions, were that same lime green color.
	And it was in the corner of the bedroom.
	And it was quite astounding.
	I mean, I don't know precisely how long it lasted, maybe a few seconds, but we found hundreds of frames of film, yet the film came back and there was nothing on it, which made us really wonder.
	So we took everyone's account independently.
	We all generally had a high degree of convergence upon what we saw.
	So what is it?
	The phenomena kept going, kept occurring, more things happened, more poster boards were torn down.
	We began to suspect that this was more of a poltergeist manifestation, because it seemed to be occurring around doors more than anything else.
	As the case went on, we did bring in some film equipment, because there wasn't portable video then, nothing we could bring in.
	That's when Frank DiPolito came in, who ended up writing the book.
	And he saw a couple, you know, beads of light and some flashes and arcs, but nothing as spectacular as what we'd seen earlier.
	And the last night we were at her house, uh, this was in, this was on Halloween of 1974.
	It happened to be a full moon.
	Great.
	And nothing happened.
	It was just dead.
	I mean, literally like, just like, you know, might as well be a normal environment.
	Very disappointing.
	But these things, you know, tend to occur.
	It's a phenomenon to be evasive and transient.
	The woman moved shortly after that and we lost touch with her.
	She surfaced again a few months later with Frank DiFelita's help, and we found her in Carson, which is a little south of Culver City, maybe 15, 20 miles south.
	I know where it is.
	And the phenomena was back again.
	Now, what's more impressive than just the fact that it returned was the fact that people living on both sides of her who knew nothing about her horrible experiences and encounters began experiencing poltergeist phenomena shortly after she moved in.
	Like it was a proximity effect.
	Wow.
	And this is extraordinary because, you know, these things are very rare to document, let alone experience.
	And so we were there.
	We saw the lights again.
	Some objects were thrown about the room.
	And, you know, she again moved after that.
	She moved from Carson to San Bernardino to Texas.
	and part of the two-factor do you know samberg do you know
	and we haven't heard from her for many years actually until the movie came out which was
	in february of nineteen eighty three
	And...
	And by that time, it pretty much waned.
	It was all but, you know, gone.
	So whatever it was, it seemed to be linked to Doris, not to the house, because we'd been back to the house.
	And no one that had lived there reported anything unusual going on.
	So whatever this was, was related to Doris, not to the house, which again, suggests more psychokinetic activity.
	But again, manifestation of an operation which was collectively observed.
	The balls of light which were photographed, the stench, the overpressure.
	What's going on?
	Now, what do you think it was?
	In other words, do you now, after all this time, lean toward the poltergeist explanation?
	Or was this a haunting?
	In other words, you saw an apparition?
	I don't know.
	I mean, obviously, based on what we think we know about this field of research, The evidence would more than likely suggest it was more of a poltergeist manifestation, but of a unique nature.
	Or, the phenomena is so multidimensional in its nature, we can't really put our finger on it.
	We're sort of like the three blind men, you know, touching an elephant, trying to describe it.
	I remember you telling a story of a gentleman who ended up with a noose around his neck.
	Oh, yes.
	Now, this case was even more spectacular.
	I mean, in my wildest dreams, I never thought I'd run into another case As unique, as extraordinary, and as spectacular as the entity case.
	But, in 1989, I received a call from a woman in San Pedro by the name of Jackie Hernandez.
	In fact, she was so worried that we might think she was emotionally disturbed.
	She had a friend of hers named Susan Collins, initially.
	And she told us of seeing an apparition, disembodied head, in the attic and everything.
	And I thought, yeah, right, okay.
	But she described other events which are more typical of hauntings or poltergeist activities.
	So we decided to go out there.
	Again, August, which seems to be a big month for this activity out here.
	And the night we arrived, we walked in the house with that same stench.
	The same overpressure.
	And we started everywhere.
	She described seeing numerous old men, old male apparitions.
	A disembodied head floating at her in the attic.
	And objects being thrown around, fire spontaneously breaking out, strange lights, water coming out of the woodwork as if there were hoses attached to it.
	You know, we listen, we're taping on videotape now, but we heard this strange pounding in the attic as if a very heavy man was bouncing around the attic.
	We went up to the attic and there was, of course, nothing.
	I went on this case with a number of other people who I worked with at the time.
	One is still my associate named Barry Conrad, and who is a professional videographer.
	Another was a man by the name of Jeff Weitkamp, who apparently became the victim of this phenomenon, which is what makes this case distinctive and unique among all the other cases I've worked on.
	He goes up in the attic, takes some pictures, and before he finishes the last roll, his camera is violently pulled out of his hands.
	It dislodges, yanked out of his hands, and he comes out of the attic and he's shaking.
	And he's white as a sheet.
	And he's hyperventilating.
	He told us what happened.
	We went up to the attic.
	We found the camera.
	The body had been separated from the lens, and they were on different sides of the attic, and yet they were totally unscathed.
	They were in pristine condition.
	No damage.
	What did it?
	We went back up there, and as we're looking around the attic to see what could have done this, we see Jeff being pushed across the attic as if some large Invisible hand, we're shoving his back, and we see his back arched, and he goes lunging across the attic.
	Again, doctor, you saw this person.
	Yes, we were there when this happened.
	And, you know, we thought, well, whatever, we couldn't, we didn't see anything other than his body being pushed.
	But this was just, this was the tip of the iceberg.
	That night, I should say, this is, this is, all of this is documented on video, and it is currently available.
	This case is currently available on a video, which I'll give to your audience, the way they can get hold of it.
	And I want to tell my audience again, listen to me folks.
	All the photographs, things you've just heard about, are up on the net, including this latest photograph you're about to hear about.
	All you've got to do is go on my webpage, go down to Dr. Taft's name, click on it, and you will see the entity photos right away.
	They are astounding.
	Astounding.
	Seeing is believing.
	Anyway, continue.
	So we, you know, the case, that particular night, there was some strange viscous liquid dripping inside the cupboard and near, I guess, near the kitchen.
	And it smelled horrible, with a horrible scent.
	So we put some of the sample back, thinking, you know, we didn't know what it was.
	We hadn't analyzed.
	And it came back as human blood plasma.
	Human blood plasma.
	Coming from a cupboard.
	So we obviously tore the cupboard, the planks out of the cupboard looking for anything stuffed behind there.
	As we always try to rationally reduce prosaic explanations so we can rule them out.
	And there was no body back there, no animals back there, and we're left with, well, we don't know where it came from.
	What's human blood plasma doing seeping out of somebody's cupboard in San Pedro?
	So the case went on On September, I think it was, 4th or 9th, I don't have it in front of me, we're back again.
	We're again in the attic, and weird lights we're seeing, objects caught fire, and things like that.
	We're in the attic, and we're about to come down, and the last person to come down was Jeff, because he was, again, curious.
	They heard sounds, and we heard this moan, like a yell, and the man who came down starting to come down just before jeff heard
	this turned back
	fired the camera at jeff to see where he was going to be out of was dark
	was basically strung up by a plastic clothesline that had wrapped itself around his
	neck in a bowline knot
	pulled itself over the rafter on a bolt or a nail and was hanging him
	he was being hung by an entity a force we couldn't see
	somehow some way
	somebody got a picture of this I mean, you can actually see him there, strung up to this damn rafter.
	Right.
	How would anybody have the presence of mind to take a photograph?
	I mean, it's... Because the only way... See, Gary Bane, who was the man who basically saved Jeff Wheatcraft's life that night, the only way he could see was by firing the flash in the camera, because he didn't have a flashlight on.
	He already pushed it down to the crawl hole.
	So he had to fire the camera, and in doing so, he captured the pictures.
	He would have fallen on his face if he tried to navigate that distance without a flash.
	So we have these pictures.
	Jeff, there were deep rope rooms in his neck.
	And to say he was traumatized would be an understatement.
	All he remembers is walking, suddenly blacking out, and then feeling like choking, and then Gary came to his rescue.
	Well, what's happened to him?
	I mean, somebody who goes through this, I've got to tell you, professional or not, Not only would I be out of there, but I think I'd be traumatized for the rest of my life.
	But this wasn't the piece de resistance.
	This was only the beginning.
	There's got to be plenty for me.
	Apparently Jackie, finally Jackie Hernandez, finally moved out of there many months later.
	She moved up to Weldon, California, which is I think in Bakersfield or something.
	Yes.
	And you know, Barry and Jeff Fowler, I couldn't because I had other things in my life going on at the time, and while in her little trailer house, Jeff was again attacked in view of at least five other people.
	The chairs and table began to shake.
	The room got icy cold.
	He was picked up, levitated, with the chair.
	The chair dropped down.
	He was thrown up in an arc, hitting the wall where it met the ceiling, and knocked out.
	Now, this was viewed by five other people.
	Time to retire.
	And, uh, we thought, you know, they thought he was dead.
	Yeah.
	Basically, because he was unconscious, and the key hit the wall with a resounding crack.
	And this is, I mean, this is psychokinesis.
	This is the granddaddy of all psychokinetic manifestations.
	Now, they were using a Ouija board because they were playing around with it and began to say that the reason this thing was attacking Jeff was because he resembled the person's killer.
	Now, all of this is detailed in my book in great depth, and it is available in a video called An Unknown Encounter from Barkon Video Productions.
	This is an 81-minute documentary with a... we have our own special soundtrack.
	It's sort of like a mini-feature.
	Right.
	And almost everything that we experienced and we documented is in this video.
	And even more of this story is contained in the chapter in my book, Chapter 3, called The Hazardous Haunting.
	Now, this case is unique because it's very rare for this phenomenon to attack people.
	It's even rarer for this phenomenon to attack those people investigating it.
	So this is unprecedented, and poor Jeff, his life has been turned inside out.
	He's basically demonstrated symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder, and he's sort of withdrawn and become a mean, bitter kind of And he's not doing this work anymore?
	No, he resigned after this, which certainly I don't blame him for.
	But I should say that, you know, beyond what happened to Jeff, which was horribly traumatic... How did that not happen to you?
	I mean, whether you're there to witness it, or you're the one assaulted or whatever, how did that not happen to you?
	I mean, at some point, fine, you're an investigator, you're a scientist, but still, in all... Well, for some reason, in this particular case, whatever the phenomena was we were dealing with, It seemed to take a particular interest in Jeff Wheatcrest.
	It attacked him probably four to five, maybe six times during the course of this investigation.
	And, again, if you believe anything coming out of a Ouija board, whether it's just, like, you know, psychic on the part of the people, you know, manipulating the planchette, or it's something discarnate, you know, who knows?
	It said, uh, information came out that a man named Herman Hendrickson apparently had been drowned in 1930 in San Pedro Bay, and the which report that it was herman anderson
	and that his killer looked just like jeff his murder looked like jeff and that's why he was after him
	all right dot that implies obviously that
	there is uh... it because the whole nature of what is a soul and what is a
	ghost uh... what do you think the ghost is
	There are really, in your opinion, there are real ghosts or just poltergeist activity?
	I'd say that the vast majority of the cases I've investigated and that I know about, I'd say fall under the heading of poltergeist or psychokinetic manifestations.
	But then we have those that are clear-cut hauntings.
	And I could discuss those later on this evening, but we thought this case was a poltergeist manifestation, and we thought the reason the phenomena was attacking Jeff was that Jackie Hernandez was very attracted to my associate Barry Conrad, who looks a little bit like Elvis Presley, and she felt that Jeff, his best friend and associate in his work, was an impediment to her going closer, and she thought if he was out of the way, She'd have a clear path to getting closer to Barry.
	Therefore, motive for the attacks.
	Right.
	Now, that's great psychology, great psychoanalysis, but it doesn't explain it.
	It's theory, but, you know, that's it.
	But, you see, what makes this case even more of a, I guess, a conundrum is the fact that in 1996, a crew from Strange Universe went back to Jackie's original house in San Pedro.
	Yes.
	And she'd been gone from there for more than six years.
	And they went in the house with their equipment, which works very well.
	It's very reliable beta kind of equipment.
	They don't experience problems with it.
	While in the house, it just shut off.
	It shut off?
	It just stopped.
	They come back out of the house, it mysteriously comes back on again.
	They go back in, it turns off again.
	They come back out, it turns on again.
	Okay, that argues, thank you very much, against polar geist activity.
	Exactly, which makes us think that we don't know what's going on.
	That we're babes in the woods.
	And it suggests that there may be something in certain environments that may infect susceptible people, like a psychovirus, and alters them energetically, that they can leave and carry some of it with them.
	All right.
	On that note, stay right there.
	Dr. Barry Taft is my guest.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast A.M.
	from May 13th, 1998.
	The first video I ever made was a video of me playing the game in the bathroom. I was
	playing it on my phone. I was playing it on my phone. I was playing it on my phone.
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	I was playing it on my phone. I was playing it on my phone.
	I was playing it on my phone.
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	you're listening to work bills somewhere in time Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 13th, 1998.
	Good morning from the Kingdom of Nye.
	We're in Pahrump, Nevada.
	It is presently 43 degrees.
	I'm near Death Valley.
	The temperatures here now should be soaring out of sight.
	They're not, but in Mexico they are.
	Fires going on in Mexico.
	Guatemala.
	That are putting haze in the air all the way across Florida into the Caribbean.
	Strange times.
	Really strange times.
	Tornadoes in Southern and Northern California.
	A snow where there ought not be snow.
	It's just, it's... It's strange times.
	And it's strange times on the air.
	My guest is Dr. Barry Taff.
	He is a world-renowned parapsychologist.
	He holds a doctorate in psychophysiology with a minor in biomedical engineering from UCLA.
	He's investigated during his career 3,500 cases of, well, what are they?
	Ghosts?
	Haunting?
	Poltergeists?
	You name it, he's seen it and we've got pictures to prove it.
	In the last hour he talked about The entity case, the real entity case that he was a principal investigator on.
	You can see the photographs from it up there.
	You can even see this poor man hanging from a rafter.
	It's all up on my website now.
	Just scroll down to the name Dr. Barry Taff and click on it.
	It'll take you right to these photographs.
	Take a look for yourself.
	He'll be back in a moment and we're going to go down a bit of a different road with
	Dr. Tass in a moment.
	Coast to Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device
	users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
	Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone
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	Simply visit coasttocoastam.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
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	The package includes podcasting, which automatically downloads shows for you, and the iPhone app.
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	Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up.
	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	I can't think of a time where also the world was in total chaos.
	You know, people are weirded out.
	And I'm beginning to wonder if there's something on this planet that's affecting people's brains.
	I believe that we are in uncharted, tenuous, tumultuous, unprecedented times.
	You know, wake up!
	Something is happening globally to this planet and it's not normal.
	It's just not business as usual.
	Now we take you back to the night of May 13th, 1998, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Alright, back now to Dr. Barrett Hathaway.
	Dr. Taft, we were talking about the nature of whatever these things are.
	One of my favorite movies of all time happens to be Altered State.
	God, I thought that was a good movie.
	No, it was exceptional.
	Now, in a sensory... It was all about a sensory deprivation chamber.
	And I've often wondered about these chambers.
	You're lowered into, I guess, some probably body temperature water or something, and they close this thing like a giant casket over you.
	And here you are with nothing to hear, nothing to see, nothing to feel.
	Nothing to taste.
	Nothing at all.
	All your senses are deprived.
	What can occur?
	I mean, I saw the movie, of course, but what really can occur?
	Well, it seems that when normal sensory cognition is suppressed or inhibited, a subtler form of communication takes over.
	And regarding the paranormal in general, one of the best techniques for eliciting or provoking mental sigh in people.
	It's called Gonsfeld, which is not as dramatic as censored deprivation tanks, but it's similar in the sense that it's like half ping pong balls over the eyes and sitting in front of a red safety light and then white noise pumped through headphones into your ears.
	What this does is it produces a sense of disorientation and you can't tell if you're standing up or seated or Whatever, you lose your spatial and temporal orientation and your mental imagery stands out much more intensely in this condition than it does normally because your senses are rendered essentially useless.
	So in other words, you do eventually enter a true altered state if all senses are deprived because you begin entering an area of the mind that you don't spend time in any other time.
	Correct.
	I hear you.
	I'm going to take you down several different roads, and you may not understand why I'm doing it, but I'll get there.
	I want to read a fact that I just got.
	There was an excellent report on remote viewing the other night on Los Angeles UPN 13 with Major Ed Dames.
	A man I've interviewed, I'm sure you know who he is.
	If I had recorded it, it would be up on the web.
	It's one thing to hear him talking about it, but the report actually showed one of his top remote viewers actually work on a target.
	The target was chosen.
	By the news cameraman, and the photographer chose the reference numbers.
	The target was a recent helicopter crash in L.A., and the remote viewer accurately identified not only the helicopter, but the cause of the crash as well, without any clues or idea what the target could have been.
	It was, in short, amazing.
	It really made a believer out of the reporter, and a lot of other people, too.
	Looks like the major's company, SciTech, is doing well.
	Thank you, David, in Central California now.
	We have talked about entities, ghosts, poltergeists, whatever the hell they are.
	We've talked about altered states.
	And now, for a second, remote viewing.
	Is remote viewing, Doctor, in your opinion, real?
	Oh, yes.
	I mean, essentially what remote viewing is, it's a combination of telepathy, clairvoyance, precognition, retrocognition.
	It's an integration of all these different aspects of psi.
	Yes.
	That we've given a scientific label to it because science doesn't like terms like telepathy and precognition, because it goes back too far in time.
	It brings more psychological research than of modern science.
	But when remote viewing works, which is not all the time, but when it does work, it can be incredibly precise and detailed.
	And one of the reasons why there's such an attempt to, I guess, Disinform people on what went on with the government's programs for the last 25 years, with that it worked very well, and they never quite figured out, nor did anyone else, how it works, or why it works.
	It's sort of like, you know, again, we can't put the force to the tree.
	And the people that spent all this money want to make sure that no one uses it against them.
	So what they do is they basically deny it worked, they re-evaluate the statistical models and programs they had, and it was coincidence, it was luck.
	There's only one problem with all of that, and that is that I have interviewed almost every single one of the major players in the government's remote viewing program, and to the man, and they may argue about this or that, but to the man, every single one of them said, of course it works.
	Yes, when it works, it's deadly accurate.
	Some of the details that came out of the work were very impressive.
	I don't care how you alter the numbers or how you re-evaluate statistics.
	Information is information.
	The question is, what's going on?
	How is it that human beings can perceive events that are remote to us in space and in time?
	And in time as well, that's right.
	Because it implies that a part of our consciousness Basically, is linked to every other part of space and time.
	Here, here.
	Now I'm going to yank you in another direction.
	And that is to UFOs.
	And your recent book, Aliens Above, Ghosts Below, Explorations of the Unknown, obviously begins to deal, if it talks about aliens, it has to deal in some way with UFOs.
	We have objects that are traveling through our atmosphere.
	Plenty of documentation, believe me.
	Government satellites and more.
	25,000 miles an hour, zig-zagging through the atmosphere.
	Totally impossible.
	At least for us, without turning to pure jelly.
	So I presume we are not the ones doing it.
	A ton of evidence that UFOs are really something.
	We don't know what, they really are something.
	A lot of people are beginning to believe That rather than interstellar travelers, we have on our hands dimensional travelers.
	It's as good a theory as any other.
	What do you conclude when you look at UFOs and aliens, the whole alien phenomenon?
	These intelligences can travel vast, whatever they are.
	Let's say we're looking at interstellar travel, not intergalactic, just interstellar for the most part.
	If they can traverse the distances in real time, not over hundreds, thousands, or millions of years, they have to be able to travel through some sort of dimensional shift, whether it's rotating wormholes or quantum singularities.
	Otherwise, they couldn't get here.
	So, there may not be a lot of difference between dimensional jumping or shifting and interstellar travel at superluminal speeds.
	But the bottom line is, these technologies, this technology that, by whatever is visiting us, is so superior to us, it would be like us looking at amoeba.
	What made you take the leap from being a parapsychologist to, in some ways, becoming a ufologist?
	In this book, I mean, what made you investigate UFOs?
	Why'd you go after that?
	Well, first of all, I've been reading about it since I was a child, but what really, for me, was sort of the cornerstone of my divergence was the fact that we've had numerous cases that began as poltergeist outbreaks, and that evolved into abductions, or a CE3 or an abduction.
	Or that began as a CE3, or an abduction, and evolved into a poltergeist outbreak, or what we call paranormal fallout.
	Really?
	And the question is, why?
	I mean, you know, what's going on here?
	Why does one... and, you know, this has been discussed by many other people.
	I mean, Jacques Vallee in Passport to Begonia and Invisible College, he wrote about this, and in his book subsequent to that, he's referenced it.
	There seems to be something regarding our consciousness and the paranormal.
	Whatever these vehicles are, these technologies coming here, may use forces we call paranormal the way we use electromagnetism.
	Well, we have so many reports of their appearing, disappearing, of morphing into different shapes, of doing things that... and I had a very, very interesting conversation earlier in the day with somebody that I've had dealings with for some time, Robert Bigelow.
	He does He's a good zillionaire and he puts grant money into science, looking in past years at two areas, and that was life after death, whether there really is such a thing, and UFOs, or these objects that traverse our atmosphere that we know are here now.
	In my discussion with him earlier today, he's trying to decide where to put this grant money, basically, and come up with a way to Decide where it would be best used.
	We both began to talk about our collective feeling that poltergeists, ghosts, remote viewers, UFOs, everything that we've just been talking about is in the end, when and if we ever understand them, there is going to be a common thread through all of them.
	And it may have to do with dimensional travel?
	It's hard to say at this point.
	But, what do you think of that idea that everything we just talked about is really connected?
	Well, I'm convinced beyond reasonable doubt that the phenomena and the relationships between the paranormal and psi and UFOs is definitely there.
	I mean, it's demonstrable.
	And it's very clear to anyone that's investigated this for a long period of time.
	The question is, It may tell us something about our reality, about the universe we live in, that we may not want to hear and we may not be too comfortable with once we know it.
	I agree with you.
	Because it suggests very strongly that the universe is ordered, it is not chaotic, that there are intelligences vastly superior to us that understand it far better than we ever will, at least for the foreseeable future.
	I agree.
	And that we might be someone else's guinea pigs And we may have been that for thousands of years, and there may be very high factions in, let's say, governments that might know this.
	And the last thing they want to do is tell the people they govern, oh, guess what?
	We're being manipulated by higher intelligences.
	There's nothing we can do about it, but continue to vote and continue to pay your taxes.
	And they can, oh, by the way, they can also violate our airspace at their discretion, and there's not a darn thing we can do about it.
	I think we're getting closer.
	And somebody with the resources of Robert Bigelow is perhaps just what I've been looking for and just what all science in this area has been looking for.
	It's absolutely riveting.
	In other words, there is something absolutely real here.
	And here was the second part of our discussion.
	I suggested to him, you recall the Brookings Report?
	Oh yeah, a study done for the government that said things would fall apart if such a revelation were made.
	It's been 30 years since that Brookings Report and one of the things I suggested to him is that we commission another 30 years of movies about aliens and people like yourself telling us what's occurred in the paranormal world Thirty years since then.
	Let me ask you, if such a study was done today, what do you think the answer would be?
	If the question was, how would the American public react?
	That's a hard question to answer, Art, because the problem is that we don't believe in the It's a very subjective response, and that, it's so subjective.
	Because, see, unless these things affect your daily life, and alter what you feel about yourself and the world around you, people don't care.
	It's cocktail hour talk, it's, you know, movie of the week stuff, it's going into the biggest blockbuster feature film about it.
	But when it affects your life, what you believe about where you come from, where you're going, what your family does, if you should pay taxes, if you should believe and trust your government, That's when, and also the biggest thing, if it shatters your belief in your Godhead, in religion, and that's a real big thing for Western society.
	My guess, and that's all it is because we'd have to do the study and maybe we're going to, but my guess would be that Brookings would be every bit as true today As it was 30 years ago.
	I'd almost be willing to lay money on it.
	I think it'd be more true today, because when I've lectured about this subject matter over the last, let's say, 25 to 30 years, and I bring this up especially around Christmas or Easter, the reaction is almost knee-jerk in response.
	It's fear, it's paranoia, and it's extremely... the irritability levels skyrocket.
	Anger.
	A lot of anger.
	It's like you're pulling out They're human.
	You're telling them that they have an inconceivable past and an unimaginable future.
	That's right.
	And no one liked that uncertainty before them.
	And, you know, it's like at some point we will be doing whatever these other intelligences are to other life forms.
	We're doing that on Earth today.
	We're just not as good as they are.
	We're acting as God to higher life forms because we can manipulate them genetically, biologically, chemically, neurochemically, whatever.
	These things can seem to be able to do it at a much more discreet, discreetly than we do.
	And they're better at it.
	They've been around longer, maybe.
	Well, in your new book, what did you look at?
	When you looked at UFOs, what did you look at?
	Well, the first thing was Chapter 7.
	It's called Anatomy of an EBE.
	And I made a very clear connection with the fact that they modeled for the dinosaur for what it would have evolved into, called the dinosauroid.
	It was talked about in Omni in 1980.
	Right.
	It's exactly, almost exactly, what people describe when they're abducted.
	Now, is that coincidence?
	I don't think so.
	Or are we seeing a species that evolved from reptiles into a humanoid reptile, and it's coming here, and it's playing God with us?
	Or it's maybe trying to, maybe, as I said in Chapter 10, UFO's The Bottom Line, maybe these beings know something about our future we don't.
	And maybe we're being hybridized, as people like Bud Hopkins and Dr. David Jacobs say, because maybe they know we won't be here very long, or maybe there'll be a catastrophe, or maybe they're trying to populate a star in another system, and recreate what they did here, but with a little minor alteration.
	And we're basically, you know, if we're being used as guinea pigs in genetic source material, that's not something you divulge to your population.
	I mean, look at the Um, but Hopkins Law's book Witnessed, an exceptional book, and you know, assuming it's all as it appears to be, it's one of the most extraordinary cases on record.
	Undeniable.
	Right, and the bottom line is...
	The only thing our government really cares about, in one line they frequently give out about UFOs, is that it does not represent a threat to national security.
	Right.
	That's not denial of their presence.
	Right.
	They've never said that.
	They say, of course there's no threat.
	That's just sort of an explanation about why we don't investigate these things.
	Ha, ha.
	But why, if there are no UFOs, why are they even saying there's no threat?
	That's another oxymoron.
	That's a double negative.
	Well, lately, these UFOs, Doctor, have been showing up over our nuclear facilities.
	Oh yes, in the mid-seventies, there were various SAC bases and nuclear facilities.
	Now, I don't know how the military defines threat to national security, but if it's not a threat when one of these things hovers above our nukes, then I'm not a talk show host.
	Wait.
	Hold on, Doctor.
	We'll be right back.
	Are you now following me when I say that I'm beginning to conclude, folks, that all of this phenomena is connected, and that when we know why, We might wish that we hadn't found out.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 13, 1998.
	This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast Amphitheatre.
	Tonight's program originally aired May 13th, 1998.
	My guest is Dr. Barry Taft, and we're about to enter some pretty heavy territory, folks.
	So, bear with me.
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	Now, we take you back to the night of May 13th, 1998, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Uh, Dr. Tamp, welcome back.
	Pleasure to be back.
	All right.
	Now, here we go.
	There are a lot of people that call my show.
	There are a lot of people Worldwide, who, with regard to the paranormal, the kind of thing we've been talking about tonight, say, look, I'm a big boy.
	I can take it.
	Let's have at it.
	Let's go.
	Let's see it.
	There are a lot of people that call my show with regard to UFOs who say, I'm an adult.
	Trust me.
	I can handle this information.
	I can handle it.
	Tell me.
	I want to know.
	In all of these different areas, we have people who almost run around Well, welcoming the thing, saying, come on, tell me, I need to know, I want to know the truth, it won't bother me.
	A lot of people like that.
	I know.
	But... And then when they encounter it, they have a fight or flight response.
	Boy, boy, are you right on the money.
	And we believe, I believe, that if another study is done, it will find that if there's a kind of revelation about all of this sort of stuff that we're talking about, UFOs, The whole parapsychological phenomenon area, that there will be some giant truth regarding where we came from, who we are, where we're going, what our future might be, whether we're under control of others, all that kind of thing.
	And if that is laid on the public, the reaction would range roughly from most people wouldn't go to work the next day, to anarchy with murders, with uh... all sorts of out of control
	uh... behavior you'd have that the paradigm shift would result in total
	abject apathy you got off the cusp of total and the total of
	self-esteem and self-image would be forever shattered belief systems up in smoke
	and the other problem is your sense belief in any authority
	would be forever destroyed and would you
	the air right a check the iris is on the Science, physics, all up in smoke?
	No, no, I don't think that.
	Refiguring, huh?
	They'd have to do a lot of recalculating.
	All this would do, it's just expanding the various venues of different disciplines of science, expand to incorporate new technology and new awareness, just as it has over, you know, hundreds of years.
	But the main thing, it would shatter our understanding of I'm very personal about it.
	It's a very personal thing.
	For most people it's like no big deal.
	For the average person, if it doesn't affect their daily life they don't care.
	But if it suddenly makes you question who you are and where you come from and why are
	you working and beating your brains out for what to what end?
	So then, suppose you had in your hands the holy grail of proof.
	Now how hard would you think before you let the world know about it?
	Before you said, all right, here it is?
	Well, put it this way.
	Given the response that I've seen in teaching over the last 25 or 30 years, the response I've seen from articles I've written, talk shows I've done, I'd say that if the government has any real substantial facts regarding Let's say UFOs, and the can of worms is immense.
	It's not just they're coming here and we know it, but let's say they have influenced our past.
	Let's say they know.
	Right.
	I think it'd possibly be the worst mistake our government has made in its history.
	Completely irresponsible to release that information.
	They know darn well.
	This may be the first good thing the government's done in a long time.
	They may be protecting us from our own worst enemy, which is ourselves.
	No one's here to invade us.
	No one's here to conquer us.
	No one's here to subjugate us.
	The whole concept of, you know, the idea that every time an inferior culture meets up with a superior one, the inferior one is destroyed or assimilated.
	Oh, yes.
	I don't think that's applicable, in this sense, because if it was applicable, we'd have already seen some indication of it.
	I just think that the government is looking at history to repeat itself, and they're going to make darn sure they don't basically, you know, shoot themselves in the foot.
	Right.
	So the answer, then, I guess is, If you really had the holy grail of proof, you would not necessarily release it?
	I wouldn't.
	Not from what I've seen.
	I don't think I would either.
	I'm being honest here.
	What do you mean you wouldn't?
	I think that it's so serious that I wouldn't even need a visit from a couple guys in suits.
	I would intellectualize it in my own mind and I would come to grips with the fact that this information couldn't be released.
	Well, there are those academicians and scientists and philosophers and, you know, truth speakers who would obviously benefit and probably their lives would be a lot better off from knowing the truth.
	But the public in general, I think, would in no way directly or indirectly benefit from this information because it would make people's lives be better.
	It would make it worse.
	So to what end would you release this information and basically destroy the infrastructure, the socioeconomic infrastructure of our society?
	I mean, why?
	So would you then conclude to keep this secret forevermore, or would you begin a slow program of indoctrination?
	Well, or desensitization.
	That's correct.
	It's hard to say.
	You know, it depends on how we evolve as a species, how the human... Because a lot of people think that's going on right now.
	I mean, you know, people think that all these movies we're seeing are part of some big, You know, black program, covert program to indoctrinate.
	You know, Hollywood makes movies like this because they make money, and they didn't think about making them.
	That's right.
	You're exactly right.
	And good or bad, if they make money, they work.
	If they keep making more, if they don't, they fail.
	Sci-fi has, for the last more than 25 years, been a really big draw at the box office.
	So is, you know, action adventure.
	I don't think they're making action adventure films to make us kill each other more frequently.
	They make them because they make money, you know, real simple.
	But I think the course the government takes is going to be determined by how the public responds.
	But also, another thing is the media.
	And the media, unfortunately, has been very irresponsible in the way they've dealt with this subject matter for the last 30 years.
	You know, they always have their ridicule factor.
	I know.
	And it gets to the point of such absurdity where, like there was a flap in Michigan back in 1995 or 1994.
	I have a tape, yes.
	People were seeing these huge glowing discs over their home, and the immediate response was, you know, quite typically, oh, it's the moon or Venus.
	Oh, well, it wasn't, though.
	And I thought, you know, the obvious response is, if the average person growing up in America can't differentiate a dot of light in the sky, which they know is Venus, and the moon, which they've seen all their life, from the big glowing disc over their house, they need to be institutionalized.
	Doctor, I've got a tape here with the radar operator at the National Weather Service.
	Calling these objects out as he sees them, sitting there going, oh my God, I don't believe this, over Michigan.
	So, you know, that was absolutely real.
	Right.
	But the media, you know, their same ridicule factor.
	It's like, I think the reason, and you know, you have to give some credit to the media at the same time.
	They've been exposed to such a quandary of garbage and disinformation and quacks and people out to just make a quick buck.
	And liars, and frauds, and mentalists, and whatever, and lunatic fringes, that you can't really blame them at some level for what they're doing, but at the other level, the news, let's say the media, is embellished, it's exaggerated, it's distorted, and it's hyped to get ratings.
	And if they know that the news that they're promoting or selling is, in essence, not real, not true, why should they believe anything anyone says?
	Pretty simple.
	Let's assume for a second that all of this phenomenon does have some commonality.
	If that's true, even though we both agree that exposure of the ultimate news would probably be impossible right now, if you wanted to fund some science work that would begin to try to lay their hands on what's going on by looking at all of these things, And looking for a commonality and trying to find something with science as we know it.
	How would you proceed?
	Well, the first thing you have to determine what it is you're going after.
	I mean, if you're going after UFOs, it's a problem.
	The different phenomena manifest itself in different ways.
	I know.
	As far as the UFOs, you don't know where they'll be.
	So you have to sort of be very mobile in order to get there.
	When you deal with hauntings or, you know, apparitions, they're sort of locked into space.
	So they're in a semi...
	Okay, before I let it go, I don't want to do that.
	I know that you've got a recording or two.
	You mentioned that to me before the program.
	What do you have?
	even is instrumented recordings is is optical or acoustic recordings or
	imaging systems that show us information that we can pretty well determine can't
	be explained prosaically. Okay before I let it go and I don't want to do that I
	know that you've got a recording or two you mentioned that to me before the
	program what do you have? Okay this is part of one of our archival tapes this
	is from 1976 and this is a man I should set this up this is a man who
	claimed that he was sort of abducted and there were strange lights around him
	We dubbed him on his bed once and we saw a ring of fire burst around him and shoot up in the air but there was no accelerant on the bed.
	His kid kept disappearing and reappearing.
	Anyway, at one point my colleague and I were at his house, and he collapsed.
	He passed out.
	He started making these really weird sounds.
	Most of them are just rubbish, gibberish.
	But there were a couple of sounds coming out of his mouth that we recorded with our own amplified mic and our tape, which defy explanation because when put through analysis, they produce pure sine waves, which no humans or animals can make.
	It's a little spooky, and I'm not going to play the entire tape because it's far too lengthy, but I'll play an excerpt from it here, and you can hopefully hear it well enough to sort of get a grasp of what we dealt with.
	Okay, this was done as the man was collapsed on the bed.
	This is as the man passed out, and he was laying face down on the desk, and we kind of turned him over because we couldn't hear him, and we put the mic up to his mouth, and he was sort of in a trance.
	Okay.
	And this is the sound that we recorded, okay?
	Alright, fire away.
	Uhhhhhhhhh Now you in hell
	Now You're in there There's no room for you here.
	Leave.
	There's no room for you here.
	There's no room for you here. Leave.
	There's no room for you here. Leave.
	Oh my God.
	I'm going to be all right.
	Oh my God.
	Now that's just in a small encapsulated version of what we dealt with.
	This was in March of 1976.
	The last thing he said was, give me your lives.
	And you know, we're just like, what?
	What?
	No, I didn't hear that part.
	Yeah, that was the last thing he said was, give me your lives.
	And we thought, what?
	And it was very hard to discern, but there was a resonance in his voice that was inexplicable.
	The first thing you heard was like a howling.
	That was the first sign wave.
	Listen to me, that didn't even sound human.
	I mean, not even close.
	People that analyzed the tape, two different firms, said that we were basically being fooled.
	This was a machine we were recording.
	This was not a human, because humans can't make sounds like this.
	You know, what do you make out of it?
	I mean, that's those strange sounds, and I mean, you know, we were there.
	I mean, it was my microphone.
	Can you do me a favor?
	Just rewind it just a little bit and play a little more of it, and then the end again.
	I want to hear where he said that.
	Okay, let me see if I can... Just sort of give it a best shot.
	Rewind a little bit.
	Return to source.
	you There's no room for you here.
	Leave.
	There's no room for you here.
	Leave.
	Give me your life.
	You cannot have our lives.
	Leave.
	Oh, man.
	That was a little disconcerting.
	Boy, do I have something you need to hear now.
	I interviewed Robert W. Morgan recently.
	Oh, the radio show DJ?
	No, no, the Bigfoot investigator.
	Oh, OK.
	And he taped a Bigfoot.
	He's got a tape of a Bigfoot.
	And now that you've played that, I think you should hear this.
	A lot of science was done on the recording you're about to hear.
	And it also was confirmed that it definitely was not A human voice.
	It'll take a little listening.
	Listen to this.
	See if you can make out what's said at the end here.
	Now listen.
	That's it.
	They repeated, obviously, what seemed to be speech at the very end there.
	What did you think of that?
	That's it.
	They repeated obviously what seemed to be speech at the very end there.
	What did you think of that?
	Well, it was pretty intriguing to me at least.
	I think I've heard clips of that elsewhere, but it doesn't sound very human.
	No, it doesn't sound very human.
	And the voices that you played, the voice you played, definitely didn't sound human.
	What in heaven's name does such a sound come from a human mouth?
	I don't know.
	I mean, you know, the case didn't involve anything we could really get our teeth into, but after a certain point, due to the distress and the trauma the man was experiencing, this was in Anaheim in 1976, his hair turned, like, white literally within a matter of days, and he was in his mid-thirties.
	That would have done it for me.
	And so, you know, Harvey, what do you make of this?
	And, you know, we can't.
	I mean, all we know is we saw the fires erupt around him, and we heard of things happening.
	We recorded the sound.
	We had it analyzed by some different people, and everyone said, you know, you've been duped.
	This is a machine.
	I said, well, no.
	We were there.
	We ruled that out.
	It was not a machine.
	I'll tell you, I've lost more friends and acquaintances from discussing these types of matters and playing tapes like this.
	There's one woman I knew back in 1993.
	She was dying to go to a haunting we had.
	We brought her out to one in Beverly Hills.
	And even though nothing happened, she knew enough about what had transpired prior to her coming to the case that she broke out in a cold sweat and ran into the house screaming.
	Yeah.
	And she goes, I can't deal with it.
	I just can't imagine these things happening and, you know, being around you, I'd probably have a heart attack.
	Well, really, I'm in that category.
	I'm so absolutely fascinated by all this, but let me tell you something.
	During a program I did, I can't remember what it was, a few months ago, my audience knows, all of a sudden, There was this trachetic, it's like 200 pounds hit my door.
	Studio door.
	And I just about came out of my skin, and I opened the door quickly.
	Nothing there.
	Nothing.
	I go into the other room, my wife's asleep, three cats asleep on the bed with her.
	That's it.
	Nobody else in the house.
	Now, I didn't see the door at the time, but there's no way that door could not have almost come off its hinges.
	I still have absolutely no explanation for that.
	I'm saying this to illustrate, I mean, I almost became incontinent.
	I'm saying this to simply illustrate the difference between talking about it, hearing a tape, and having it happen to you.
	I almost came apart.
	Yeah, I've seen, you know, novice researchers run into things with a case in 92 where a room began, part of a room began to violently shake as if there was a localized quake under part of a room in a house.
	One of our novice researchers just ran out.
	He couldn't take it.
	I said, why were you scared?
	He said, the room was shaking.
	There was nothing making it shake, but I saw you people shaking, but we weren't.
	And yet the wall was shaking, and he said, how do you explain it?
	I said, I don't, but that's why we're here.
	Right.
	And it's luck.
	Right.
	That's to me, normal human behavior, just to have the, you know what, scared out of you.
	All right, Doctor, can you stick around one more hour or so?
	We'll open the lines.
	Is that a yes?
	Yes.
	Oh, good.
	Good, good, good.
	Dr. Barry Papp is my guest.
	When we come back, we will open the lines.
	And he may have another tape or two, if you can handle it, from the high desert, where it's 43 degrees.
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 13th, 1998.
	♪♪♪ ♪♪♪
	♪♪♪ You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 13th, 1998.
	Good morning.
	Dr. Barry Tapp is here.
	here. Or hold on to something and keep listening.
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	Weird stories on the radio?
	Must be Coast to Coast AM with George Norris.
	You know, when I started doing this radio program, Jesse, half of the subjects I was really into...
	paranormal, the unusual, ghosts and things like that.
	The conspiracy stories, you know I was a little weary about these
	other than the Kennedy assassination. And all of a sudden I woke up.
	I simply woke up. Is that what happened with you too?
	Yeah, that's when I really started to say what is going on here.
	And I started to truly then investigate 9-11.
	And today I don't believe the government story of 9-11. Here's the three options. Either we knew about it
	and allowed it to happen, or we knew about it and participated in it,
	or these were the dumbest buffoons that could have ever been in charge of our country who could have all this
	pre-information.
	And I started to think they knew what was going to happen.
	They either are part of it or they allowed it to. There's no doubt in my mind.
	You're listening to ArcBell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from May 13th, 1998.
	All right, here we go again.
	Dr. Berrytaff back again.
	Doctor, if you have any other tapes like that, By all means, bring them out, and then we'll go to the phones.
	The only one I have, the other one, is something I don't really play too often, and there's some problems.
	One is just a woman in a trance, hysterical, and it's so noisy and boisterous that if I played it now, I'd wake up everybody in this building.
	Really?
	That bad?
	I mean, I could probably send you a copy, but to play it at this hour would literally wake the dead in this building.
	And also because Phenomena was around the woman.
	It wasn't connected to her.
	It was other people around her.
	So at some point, perhaps we can play it, but this would be difficult because it's so intense in terms of, in order to get it clear, it has to be loud.
	And in fact, you're almost not loud enough.
	You've got to stay close to the phone here.
	Right.
	And I realize you don't want to wake anybody up, particularly the dead.
	Right.
	All right.
	Then we've got plenty of calls.
	That last tape you played, That was plenty for me anyway.
	First time caller on the line, you are on the air with Dr. Barry Taff.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Nashville, Tennessee.
	My name is Clay.
	Yes, sir.
	I heard the recording, or the one you played, Art Bell, and the one the doctor played.
	Recalling previous recordings, the hell noise.
	Yes.
	It seems to me that they seem connected to me.
	They almost sound similar.
	Which would maybe suggest that there might be some truth in the demonic activity, or even deception, like what the guys a couple nights ago were saying.
	There seems to be deception in this area, and there seems to be evil associated with it.
	Alright, well that actually comes into a pretty good question.
	Are you willing to agree with the possibility of demonic Possession, demonic activity, demons, evil.
	Would you suggest that does exist or would you rather think that it is not so clear cut?
	I think good and evil are manifestations of the human psyche.
	I think that anything, whatever it is, whether we create it or it's created by us, It can be good or evil depending on its application.
	I look at it a little more objectively than most people do.
	If something harms somebody or deprives somebody of life or sustenance, I think that perhaps can be interpreted pretty much as evil.
	Boy, I wonder why your phone connection is kind of fading on me, Doctor.
	I don't know.
	It sounds fine on this end.
	And it was really loud before, but now it's kind of faded out.
	I don't know what happened.
	Weird.
	Well, I've experienced weird before, believe me.
	Alright, Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Barry Taff.
	Hi.
	Hi, this is Hafir.
	I'm along the California, I mean the Carolina coast, and I've been, 30 years ago, I started my own investigations and searching for an answer, and a few years later I came across a book called God Speaks.
	It actually came out in 1956 by Dodd Mead.
	It was written by a man called Meher Baba and it outlined the whole story, everything that you're talking about.
	And it goes into the evolution and the involution of consciousness and what it means to all of us.
	And we're at the end of time in the sense of going from the consciousness of intellectual reasoning into intuition.
	And that's the next step in humanity's journey back to the source. And you believe we are at the
	end of it? We're at the end of intellectual reasoning and intuition has to take over.
	In other words, that heart felt instinctual if you want to call it,
	but it's actually intuition at the higher level of consciousness, and it's truer than our minds.
	Do you think, Doctor, there is a movement in that direction?
	Do you see that?
	I just see that, I don't know, I think people are becoming more
	sheep-like in the sense that just Yes, sir.
	They are accepting pretty much anything they are told.
	They are not questioning sources.
	They are becoming more naive and more gullible.
	They are becoming more critical, which might suggest that they have faith in whatever they
	are told rather than questioning the source.
	That's disturbing because that means that they can be manipulated without a lot of thought
	in it.
	East of the Rockies, you are on the air with Dr. Barry Taft.
	Hello.
	Yes sir.
	I'm calling from Grand Rapids, Michigan.
	I was wondering if Dr. Taft had seen the picture of you when you were talking about that woman?
	Oh, that woman.
	I doubt that he has.
	That occurred since he was last on, but I will briefly tell him the story.
	A doctor to have, just out of curiosity, because, you know, I will interview just about anybody on any subject.
	And there was a young lady who called herself Harlot.
	Patsy was her real name.
	But she called herself Harlot, and without apology, she was a devil worshipper.
	Yeah.
	I mean, hail Satan, the whole thing.
	And I interviewed her for some number of hours.
	It was an astounding interview in many ways.
	Toward the end of the interview, just before we went off the air, she told me that her husband had killed her daughter.
	Her child.
	Her husband had murdered her child.
	And I kind of took a shot.
	I said, With your views, you're going to be down with that guy you worship, and your son or daughter, I can't remember now, is going to be in the other place.
	And she said, oh no.
	She said, I long before that occurred, took steps to ensure that my child would go straight to hell with me.
	And that blew me away.
	Since that time, I've spoken, for example, with Father Malachi Martin, an exorcist.
	I've spoken with a number of other people who say that's absolutely possible that a child could be taken to hell by a parent.
	It seems not fair, maybe it's not a fair world, I don't know, spiritually, that such a thing could occur.
	That a god wouldn't allow that to happen, but even the experts tell me that indeed it could happen.
	We were doing a show, a segment on reverse speech.
	This is kind of complicated, and David Oates, who does reverse speech, reversed Harlett, and we got a lot of really weird results, terrifying results.
	Anyway, we were doing that show.
	Now, you may or may not know, I have, at this very moment, three television cameras that are pointed at me.
	And they sequence, and you can go up to my website, you can see me doing the program, the radio show.
	And so they snap, oh I guess one picture every 30 seconds, something like that, and send it to the website.
	At the very moment that she was talking about taking her daughter to hell, a picture got snapped, because it's got a time stamp on it, of me.
	And all around the top of my head was Like a white, misty, most incredible thing you've ever seen in your whole life.
	I didn't, of course, know about it until later, but then I had Keith posted on the website, and there was some kind of presence around me at that exact moment, and it's one of the most remarkable photographs you'll ever see.
	Have you seen it?
	No, I have not seen that, unfortunately.
	But it sounds like it could be that maybe you were so shocked and traumatized and distressed by what you heard.
	Oh, I absolutely was.
	With the psychokinetic manifestation of your anxiety and your stress.
	Oh, absolutely correct.
	Keith, if you're out there, would you please quickly just throw that up?
	I know I ask a lot, but I would like people to see it.
	A lot of people haven't seen it.
	It's really, really weird, and it scared me.
	All right.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Barry Taff.
	Hi.
	Where are you?
	Colorado.
	Colorado, okay.
	Yeah, I was calling because I had a question.
	Doctor, do you really believe that these creatures or manifestations are interdimensional travelers?
	You mean regarding UFOs?
	Or any of it, really.
	Well, interdimensional travel doesn't necessarily mean UFOs.
	Well, no, you have to be specific.
	In terms of the paranormal, you're dealing with apparitions and ghosts.
	There are different theories and categories for phenomena, and one suggests discarnate intelligence, which implies that something survives corporeal death, and where that consciousness resides could be another dimension.
	I mean, no one knows.
	Another theory is that it's psychokinetic, coming from a living human agent, where the source of that is, how it operates through space.
	No one knows.
	Regarding UFOs, as I said before, if we're dealing with interstellar travel, they can traverse enormous distances in relatively short time, they by their very
	nature must shift sometimes.
	They have dimensional shifting or jumping in order to achieve their desired result.
	So it may be different ways of explaining the same thing.
	True.
	True.
	I mean, when you talk about different dimensions, they are like nine or eleven dimensions, but
	they are like infinite variations on a common theme and most of them, physical objects as
	we know them, could not exist in.
	All right, tomorrow night I'm going to have a guest, a theoretical physicist named Michio
	Kaku, Dr. Kaku, who teaches at New York City University, and he is completely convinced
	there are a minimum of ten dimensions.
	Thank you.
	I mean the best minds in our nation right now are beginning to conclude that there are many dimensions.
	So this is beginning to be conventional thinking in a lot of circles.
	Not really fringy stuff.
	And I guess that's why I'm moving toward beginning to conclude, whether it's UFOs or a lot of the activity you're talking about, we are talking about dimensional either travelers or little portals that occasionally open that account for all these weird things or that are intentionally open.
	Who knows?
	Those portals can be open intentionally and unintentionally.
	Anything is possible, I just know that a lot of these phenomena are very transient in its nature.
	I've seen them.
	I've seen them open and I've seen them closed and I've seen what comes through.
	Have you ever tried to document any of this with video or film?
	Well, it's happened in times when we weren't really prepared for it.
	This is going to sound so crazy.
	I come from a long line of people with heightened sensibilities, I guess you might call it, and I have seen things and heard things and felt things that have just, you know, like that tape that you had with the voice and the fire and everything.
	It's like I'm shaking thinking about it, but I've seen things like that.
	Alright, well thank you ma'am.
	Should we proceed to try and scientifically get a grasp on all of this, Dr. Taft, do you believe?
	I think, as I said, one of the questions earlier was about people relying more on intuition.
	If we don't objectify this and put a handle on it and scientifically deal with it, we're going to be basically roaming around in the dark.
	The problem is, critical judgment is, to me, at a low ebb right now in society.
	We don't really examine everything we're told or we see.
	We just accept it in blind faith.
	That has some good qualities at a human level, but at a science level, it's disastrous because we can be fooled by our own stupidity and ignorance.
	I think the only way we're going to resolve any of this is with science.
	Without science, we wouldn't be talking right now.
	We wouldn't have a website.
	We wouldn't have planes.
	We wouldn't have furniture.
	We wouldn't have anything.
	Every bit of that is true.
	Every bit of it's true.
	I just wonder the best way, and you're grounded in the hard sciences, so to you, you need photographs, you need recordings, you need instrumentation.
	And also you need replicability, the ability to reproduce your results.
	What I have to stress is this.
	If this phenomenon, whether it's the paranormal, if it's a spy, remote viewing, precognition, ghost apparitions, or UFOs, if these things never occurred, they were never reported, we wouldn't be discussing them.
	And if they occurred all the time, they'd be accepted part of our reality, and again, there's no reason to discuss it.
	It's like talking about dumb, turn the tap water on.
	The fact they occur some of the time, not all the time, tells us one important thing.
	We're ignorant about a big part of the world we exist in.
	Boy, I agree with that one.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Dr. Barry Taft.
	Where are you, please?
	This is Greg in St.
	Louis.
	Let me kill my radio.
	Okay, Greg, thank you.
	Are we on?
	Yes.
	I'm 45 years old and back in the early 70's a classmate of mine and I attended a junior college together.
	One day he told me that he was a wizard who practiced Wicca and he told me that if I wrote something down it would happen.
	Have you ever heard of anything like that?
	The concept of white magic or magic?
	Yeah.
	I wrote something down involving high-level politicians in the state of illinois
	and uh...
	within three months they were all under investigation and later indicted
	and i was wondering also if you've ever heard of this stuff
	term called temporal anomalies on the surface of the earth like the devil's triangle and
	that Oh, yes.
	What do you know about that, Doctor?
	Temporal anomalies.
	Well, with regard to the Bermuda Triangle, unfortunately, that's not one of the better areas to really focus on because a lot of the investigation has demonstrated that a high percentage of the cases that have been reported there aren't what they appear to be.
	There's been a lot of exaggeration and, you know, distortion and embellishment.
	But there are those small number of cases that suggest there is some type of anomaly there that
	affects instruments and affects human perception exactly and but it's not responsible for all the planes and all the
	boats I'd say there's there are also other locations of the earth that have the
	same type of Anomaly but not as pronounced with regard to the first
	question he asked as far as is there usually Electromagnetic anomaly involved sometimes sometimes it's
	gravitational sometimes electromagnetic But again, it's so transient.
	See, anytime you have a place where a lot of planes and boats traffic in and out of, you're going to have an extraordinarily high percentage of cases due to storms and other natural events.
	Of course.
	You know, people crash in planes or storms come up and their boats capsize and it's lost at sea.
	And you know, there's nothing mysterious about that other than the fact that it's sudden.
	You have to take a lot of what's said with a grain of salt, because otherwise, you just believe that every time a boat vanishes or a plane goes down, oh, there's some paranormal reason where it might be something, you know, pilot error, mechanical failure.
	But there are some pretty good examples of, for example, haunted aircraft.
	Oh, yes.
	Up in Merced Castle Air Force Base had, I think, an aircraft, an old bomber from World War II that was very haunted, according to reports that I've heard.
	Well, I know a commercial airline person who told me that one day he will come on and tell the story of the haunting of a commercial aircraft because of a crash, I believe, down in Florida.
	By Eastern Airlines, right?
	You know about it, huh?
	It used to be serviced out of, I think, American out here.
	We actually got wind of it on occasion, but the airlines would not let us go on board I'm sure they wouldn't.
	And actually, it's still going on.
	And there was a TV movie made about it.
	Yep.
	With Ernest Borgman.
	That's a fact.
	Doctor, hold on.
	We'll be right back to you.
	It is the bottom of the hour.
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast.
	Or is that Ghost to Ghost AM?
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 13, 1998.
	This is a presentation of the Coast to Coast AM concert.
	The concert was held at the San Francisco International Music Center on May 13, 1998.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 13th, 1998.
	My guest is Dr. Barry Taff.
	And we'll get back to him in a moment.
	And we're talking about all kinds of things.
	Very wide-ranging, actually.
	But you know what?
	I am convinced it's all connected.
	Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
	And if you're a Coast insider, you'll have our great subscriber features right on your phone, including the ability to listen to live programs and stream previous shows.
	No special app is necessary to enjoy our new mobile site.
	Simply visit coasttocoastam.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
	Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM, has a new name.
	Coast Insider.
	You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price.
	The package includes podcasting, which automatically downloads shows for you, and the iPhone app.
	You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows.
	That's over a thousand shows for you to collect and enjoy.
	If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
	Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up.
	Now, we take you back to the night of May 13th, 1998, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Well, you heard me describe a little while ago a photograph that was taken on the air, one of, I don't know, since I've had the cameras, I guess, one of Probably tens or hundreds of thousands of pictures.
	Keith has got it up there.
	It's called Art's Own Ghostly Studio Photograph, or Own Ghostly Studio.
	Take a look at it.
	It's on my website now.
	If that isn't weird, what is?
	All right, my guest is Dr. Barry E. Taft.
	His new book is entitled Aliens Above, Ghosts Below, Explorations of the Unknown, And, uh, he is taking a giant leap.
	Uh, Dr. Taff, your book is in total available on the Internet.
	In other words, you can actually pay for it and download the whole thing on the Internet.
	Is that correct?
	Yes, that's correct.
	Really a new way to go, huh?
	Yeah.
	Alright, and, uh, how long a book is it?
	Oh, it's about, it'll be about 240 pages, I guess, 250 pages, depending on how it's formatted.
	The final chapter just really jumps into what we've been talking about tonight.
	The name of the final chapter is the PSI UFO Connection.
	Mm-hmm.
	Is that right?
	Yes.
	Chapter 14.
	I mean, that's incredible that you would begin to make that connection.
	And in what way do you feel there is one?
	What have you seen in the world of PSI that seems to be a connection to UFOs?
	Well, for example, one of our most unusual cases went from almost 20 years ago, out in Sunland, and Moon was seeing what she thought were apparitions.
	Objects moving about the house on their own, you know, typical ports as we call them.
	Things disappearing and reappearing, strange pounding, banging noises.
	And I said, when did it begin?
	She goes, well, I was walking in the canyon when I took a little stroll.
	I saw a big glowing dish, like a disc.
	And from there on it proceeded where these like humanoid apparitions were, you know, harassing her.
	The end result was she disappeared.
	We don't know where she went.
	Her kids couldn't find her.
	We couldn't find her.
	But nothing.
	There was no evidence of foul play.
	Nothing was taken.
	No break-in.
	No money gone.
	Her car was there.
	Her clothes were there.
	Things like that.
	An executive at a local television station had a poltergeist outbreak.
	We didn't experience it, but we interviewed the people.
	We felt it was a good case.
	And many months later, he was taking a vacation up north in California.
	They saw what they thought was a Meteor right about to hit the ground.
	They followed it and they saw a UFO landing and they were abducted.
	But it began with a poltergeist.
	It began with a poltergeist.
	What is going on?
	And what does this tell us about the nature of the phenomena?
	Is having an encounter with one, like having an encounter with a UFO, suddenly make you more likely to be psychic or very sensitive?
	Or if you're psychically sensitive, does that increase your probability of running into a UFO?
	Well, I say the answer is yes.
	And I say it is all interconnected.
	And I say when we discover this interconnection, if we do, it's really going to be a shocker.
	What if we found out that the future in some form already exists?
	That the information that makes it up can be accessed anywhere, anytime?
	And that the future is as much fixed as the past is fixed?
	It's just that we can't see it.
	I don't even think we could handle that.
	Right.
	Because that would mean that we were all sort of marionettes walking around on a stage.
	Except that we don't know what's going to happen from moment to moment, day to day.
	Not now.
	We will.
	Not now.
	That's right.
	And, you know, what if we learned that we're one of many experiments by some other civilization that decided to pepper the universe with numerous diversified life forms?
	That pre-will is just a joke on us.
	Money and power simply gives one the illusion of control.
	Oh, here, here.
	Alright, west of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Barry Tapp.
	Hi.
	Hello there.
	Going once.
	Going twice.
	Gone.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Barry Tapp.
	Hi.
	Am I not pushing the right button?
	I think I'm not pushing the right button somehow.
	Oh, I see what I've done.
	Oh, heavens.
	East of the Rockies, are you there?
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Do you have a question for the good doctor?
	Yes, I do.
	I was wondering about the dimensions you were talking about.
	Yes.
	Where possibly could you go with further dimensions than what we know of?
	You know, space and time.
	What other dimensions could there possibly be?
	Well, I mean the most simplistic response is that the fourth dimension would be a temporal dimension in which space doesn't have any meaning, nor does time, where you're sort of, you're in a realm.
	The idea is, like Einstein said, at the speed of light you could circumnavigate the universe in 40 years.
	Theoretically, if you reach the speed of light or surpass it, you can travel vast distances in virtually no time for yourself.
	That would be another dimension, in essence.
	If you exceed light speed and go superluminal, the universe is yours.
	What that would do to life, you know, when you got back to Earth, how much time would go by, God only knows.
	But that implies that you're changing your dimensional status because, you know, the whole idea of mass increasing, you know, as you increase your speed and energy.
	There's obviously another realm there.
	Well, here's one for you, and I presume that you may have heard of this, or maybe you haven't, but it's big news.
	Scientists have now detected, as of a few days ago, a gamma ray burst from 12 billion light years out that they are now declaring to be probably equal in size to the Big Bang that created all that we know.
	I mean, let's see, how can they put it?
	So massive, they said, was the blast, that for seconds it was as luminous as all the stars and all the galaxies in the universe.
	Twelve billion light years out.
	And it's another, another Big Bang just occurred.
	Or, well of course, occurred a long time ago.
	But that's pretty weird stuff.
	In other words, out there at the edge of what we know to be our expanding universe, something happened Like happened here.
	Or else there were multiple bangs and we're just now becoming aware of it.
	And we're all living in these little individual bubbles that only occasionally attach to each other and allow movement through.
	Well, you know, I look at one of the chapters in my book deals with this.
	It's basically, I touch about this, something called brain holograms, the light within, about the fact that our brain functions like a neural hologram.
	There is, like, the whole aspect of interconnectedness and equally distributed information, that space and time may operate like this regarding information, and that our brains are like little models of space-time, Sort of interfering with everything around it, and that's how we can perceive events in the future and the past at a great distance.
	If this model is even close to being accurate, it suggests that we're sort of like the same way a tree produces an apple, we are sort of connected back to the tree by some dimensionally shifting mechanism.
	But it's at a level we can't access yet with machines.
	But our minds can't.
	Well, we're constantly discovering new things.
	And when I talked to Professor Kaku yesterday about this explosion, he said, look, we toyed with the idea of two colliding black holes producing this immense energy.
	But he said, you do the numbers, and even that does not account for the energy that we just saw.
	It doesn't even begin to account for it.
	And so, frankly, Art, we have no idea what happened out there.
	No idea.
	And that's from one of our great minds.
	So, weird.
	First time on our line, you're on the air with Dr. Barry Taff.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Austin, Texas.
	All right.
	What is your name?
	My name's Kimberly.
	Okay.
	Welcome to the show.
	Thank you.
	I had an experience a few weeks ago that I was just hoping to get a little bit of feedback on.
	For some reason, I'm under the impression that you've spoken about these paralysis, states of paralysis before on your show.
	Oh, yes.
	Okay, I haven't personally heard it.
	I think somebody had mentioned it to me.
	It does and doesn't relate to what my guest is talking about.
	You're talking about an out-of-body experience, which begins with a paralyzed feeling.
	It probably all winds into the same thing, but it wasn't specifically what the doctors here are talking about.
	But go ahead.
	Well, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by out-of-body experience, but this is definitely some sort of altered state of mind.
	It had happened a few times in the past, about a year ago, and it just happened a few weeks ago, but this time I heard a sort of voice, quite like those that were played on the tapes earlier in the show, and a few seconds later it was followed by another voice, a female voice, that said, there's a justice in your mind now.
	And I was wondering if that sounded even vaguely familiar to you, or the doctor, and if that, As far as what the voice said to you, that could be interpreted a million ways, depending on you, and a myriad of other things.
	As far as the experience, sleep paralysis, as you were describing, is actually quite common, and it is associated with autobiotic sprints.
	It's also theoretically associated with some types of abduction.
	People claim that, you know, whatever.
	It's really hard, because there is a neurophysiological explanation for it, and there's also a quasi-paranormal explanation for it.
	In terms of what may be initiating it.
	In other words, is it initiated because part of your consciousness departs your body, or is it initiated because you've woken up, but not completely?
	I mean, OBEs, out-of-body experiences, even the beginnings of them, remote viewing, near-death experiences, all of these things, I am convinced, wind together in dealing with this other realm that's as real I say it on Dreamland, as real as the air we breathe, but we don't see the air.
	Right.
	Alright, Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Barry Taff.
	Hi.
	Hi Art, hi Doctor.
	Hi.
	I have to agree, I believe everything is connected too.
	Going back, Doctor, going back to the case you were speaking of, the movie The Entity was based on.
	Right.
	The lights flying around the room caught my attention.
	Someone I know experienced something similar, where a single small light appeared to enter their hand.
	Leaving a small mark.
	Eventually they went to bed in the morning and there was a second mark about a half an inch from the first.
	I was wondering if any of the lights you saw did anything similar to that?
	No, the lights never caused any direct physical effects.
	There were other psychokinetic manifestations occurring during the course of the investigation, but the lights, other than occasionally being photogenic, produced no physical effects like that.
	Alright, well thanks a lot.
	All right, thank you very much for the call, and good morning.
	East of the Rockies, you're... whoops, would have been... we missed you.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Barry Taft.
	Hi.
	Hi, this is Ed in Kenai, Alaska.
	Hello, Ed.
	Go right ahead.
	Okay.
	I'm on a cell phone.
	I cut you off.
	I was wondering if you knew whether, or had heard whether the energy that we'd seen that was 12 billion light years away Might be the other side of the bubble when the Big Bang went off.
	Well, I appreciate your call, sir.
	Dr. Barrett Tapp is not necessarily the one to comment on this, but you're welcome to try if you would like, doctor.
	Nobody really knows what happened out there.
	Well, from what I've read in numerous publications, it sounds like it's a secondary Big Bang.
	Like a winking effect.
	But again, they said everyone's at a loss to even come up with any theories as to what could comprehensively explain this.
	I don't know.
	The fact that it's so long ago, it's like it's really hard to deal with.
	I wish we might see more of these over time.
	I mean, who knows?
	With all the instrumentation we have now orbiting the Earth outside the atmosphere, it gives us a much better opportunity to... Whatever mechanism of creation there is may be ongoing.
	I don't know what else you say about it.
	First time caller on the line.
	You're on the air with Dr. Barry Taft.
	Hi.
	Good morning, Mr. Bell.
	Good morning.
	Turn your radio off, please, and tell us... One moment, please.
	All right.
	That's the way to go.
	There you go.
	My apologies.
	That's all right.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Bryan, Texas.
	Okay.
	What I wanted to know is, is it possible that our minds, being as little understood as they are and as powerful as they're thought to be, could we be generating a lot of these phenomena on ourselves because we have a need to.
	Okay, that's really a good question.
	Doctor, here we are talking about all of this phenomena being connected in some other realm or dimension, and here's a lady saying, look, could it be that none of that is true, and all of this is generated in our own brains?
	Something I guess you have to think about.
	Well, I mean, from my own perspective, I'd say, for example, 98% of my case file In terms of hauntings and whatever, our psychokinetic, our poltergeist cases, that doesn't diminish their significance, it just tells us that the origin is suggestive of a living human agent.
	But we still have that other small percentage, which strongly, strongly suggests we're dealing with this carnate intelligence of some sort, whether it's recorded in space-time that, you know, reconstructs itself or it's some type of consciousness that's trying to display itself, who knows?
	Yeah.
	The other phenomena gets much more difficult to deal with, but the most common call we used to get at the lab was people who had precognitive dreams.
	And instead of thinking they perceived the future, they think they caused it.
	Well, that's a pretty good question.
	That is one of the most common calls we used to get in the lab usually.
	Okay, but how does one discern?
	There really is no way to discern, is there?
	In other words, if you preconceive something and it occurs, you then have no way No way of knowing whether you knew about it ahead of time or whether you in some way actually precipitated the event.
	Well, that's an interesting thought, except that generally speaking there's no evidence that humans, that we are essentially God and that we can produce an event simply with the thought of it.
	It's one thing to imagine stuff and then end up creating it.
	Or, you know, fantasize stuff and end up creating it because we evolved to that point.
	But just to say, if we think of it, and it is, if that were the case, there'd be a lot more millionaires and billionaires on this planet.
	Well, that's true.
	Go with the thing of Occam's Razor.
	Go with the explanation that most easily and realistically and practically explains the phenomena based on what you know about it.
	Is probably the answer.
	Right.
	And so it's one thing to sense the future.
	It's something else to cause it, to produce it.
	You're right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Barry Tapp.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	I don't hear you too well, so you're going to have to speak up.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Fort Worth, Texas.
	It's an honor to talk to you, Art.
	Welcome to the program.
	I've got a question for you and him.
	I'll give you his first.
	Fire away.
	Okay, I was wondering, when you're using the equipment to sense the presence of a ghost, Do you use something that would measure like electromagnetic waves or something like that?
	Yes, we, now we use basically what look like tri-field meters.
	They're like, they can measure magnetic fields, electric fields, radio and microwave.
	And so we see if we can detect, you know, transients or surges in the flux.
	And have you detected this?
	On occasion, yes, we have.
	But the problem is it's not consistent.
	But we have seen this occurring when phenomena is occurring.
	We see the magnetic specifically.
	Magnetic flux seems to be effective.
	All right, Colin.
	Magnetic flux, does it fall within a designated frequency range type thing?
	Another good question.
	It's more in the, well, basically as far as it's at, you know, power level, it's in the milligauss region.
	So it's extremely low power level.
	And frequency range, it's basically in the low to extremely low frequency range.
	Now that would make sense.
	That would certainly make sense.
	But you have measured this?
	Yes.
	But we haven't had enough of it where we can really pin it down.
	But we've seen that we recorded this when there's no other source for the energy.
	And with the phenomena, so does the magnetic flux.
	In other words, it seems that there is a correlation.
	But until we get a lot more of it collected, it's still suspected of the nature.
	All right.
	Doctor, it sure has been a pleasure having you on the air.
	Oh, it's been great.
	You always, uh, it never fails to, uh, to really get me going.
	And we will, of course, have you back again.
	Your new book, Aliens Above, Ghosts Below, Explorations of the Unknown, on the Internet, folks.
	Doctor, thank you so very much.
	Well, thank you.
	It's been a pleasure.
	Good night.
	Good night.
	Well, that's it for tonight, folks.
	Tomorrow night, Dr. Michio Kaku.
	I'm Art Bell, from the high, chilly desert.
	Good night.

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