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May 11, 1998 - Art Bell

02:46:57

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Chuck Missler & Mark Eastman - The Coming Great Deception

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55:12

chuck missler

39:02

mark eastman

33:12

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 11th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning and welcome to a new week, another week of Coast to Coast AM live talk radio throughout the night time.
		From the Hawaiian and Eastern Islands outwest, eastward to the Caribbean, South into South America, north, all the way to the Pole and worldwide on the internet.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		Indeed, I'm Marbell.
		Bring to me here.
unidentified		Welcome to WNRN.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got that right.
		I think I do WNRN in Marion, Ohio.
		Have you on board?
		You will learn about this program slowly but surely.
		As I do.
		We just do strange and different radio all the time.
		Tonight Chuck Whistler and Mark Eastman in the next hour.
		And it's kind of a very interesting night.
		It is a Christian perspective on UFOs.
		And things that go bump in the night and so forth.
unidentified		And so we'll do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think you'll look forward to that.
		I think you'll enjoy it.
		It'll be next hour.
		Many, many people have asked me to have these two gentlemen on, and so we shall.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		News.
		737s.
		The initial results.
		Do you fly frequently?
		I do.
		Initial results of inspections of older Boeing 737s were not hardening.
		This is just what I want to hear on the week I'm going to fly, right?
		Of the 192 fuel pump tubes inspected on 96 planes by Monday night, about half, that's half, showed signs of wire abrasion.
		Each plane, you see, has two fuel pump tubes.
		The FAA on Sunday grounded older models of the Boeing 737 and took a look.
		Obviously, they are fearing an explosion like the one that downed TWA Flight 800, and that's what they blame that on, is wire abrasion.
		So that's half of the older 737s.
		Yikes.
		When Israel's Prime Minister comes to Washington this week, he may be bringing yet another offer to revive the stalled stale Mideast peace talks.
		Israeli radio and officials say the new proposal would require Israel to withdraw from 9% of the West Bank over a 12-week period, then hold an additional 4% of the area in reserve, allowing the U.S. to determine when it should be handed over.
		We'll see.
		Labor Secretary Alexis Herman says she's disappointed and baffled by Attorney General Janet Reno's decision to request an independent counsel to investigate her.
		Reno requested that prosecutors look into whether Herman sold influence while working as a White House aide.
		Herman has been accused of engaging in influence peddling or soliciting more than $250,000 in illegal campaign contributions.
		This is why I'm in favor of a total government shake-up.
		I mean, this kind of thing is going to go on and on and on.
		Every administration that comes into power says they are going to be Mr. Clean.
		this is going to be the cleanest administration in u_s_ history uh...
		President Clinton Tuesday will unveil a wide-ranging strategy for fighting international crime as the world's biggest industrial nations prepare to work on a plan of cooperation.
		Clinton will announce his international crime control strategy at the White House just before he departs on a European trip.
		We shall see.
		In the category of animals attacking humans, something we keep track of, the latest, is as follows.
unidentified		A pot-bellied pig.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Last week it was a cat.
		Remember?
		A pot-bellied pig.
		Ran across a woman's yard, leapt up onto her porch, and attacked her, knocking her down and biting her vigorously.
		She was not seriously injured, and the pig was captured.
		Authorities are searching now for the owner.
		If not found, the pig will be auctioned off.
		Now, see, with other kinds of animals, it would be adopted, but in this case, they're going to auction off the pig.
		A London-based company, which claims to have, get this, folks, exclusive rights to film the first sunrise of the new millennium, said yesterday, a high fence might indeed be built to stop rivals from filming.
		Britain's Royal Geographical Society says the Millennium's first light will hit Pitt Island, part of the New Zealand territory of the Chatham Islands.
		How can they do that?
		Norris McWhirter, one partner in the Millennium Adventure Company and co-founder of the Guinness Book of World Records, says that it has bought the territorial rights to a certain hill on Pitt, and they plan a worldwide broadcast from there.
		But another London firm, New Dawn 2000 says it also has got a deal on the same hill.
		Millennium Adventure Chief Executive Blaine said that a three-meter-high fence was going to be considered to stop New Dawn.
		He said 80% of Millennium's profits would go to the local community, said that locals would, quote, do everything to make sure that they don't lose out.
		Now, check me here if I'm wrong, but if the good Lord is looking down and observing our behavior, the beginning of the new millennium would certainly be a time when he would look down and what would be the first thing he sees as the light cracks over the earth,
		the first moment of that new millennium, and he's going to see two TV companies fighting, putting up fences to take pictures of the Lord's Son.
		The one that shines.
		You've got to imagine he would not be happy about that.
		Art, can we please talk about the weather?
		Well, anytime, of course.
		This is from Carol in Seminole, Florida.
		What in the heck are they trying to do to us?
		A tornado in Sunnyvale, California, early last week.
		Forecast for tonight.
		Snow advisory in southeast California.
		40 degrees for you.
		Thursday, upper 40s, lower 20s.
		Really?
		Did lightning strike some of the harp towers or what?
		This is crazy.
		11 straight days of rain in Boston, wind chill 30 degrees, floods in the northeast, category 4 and 5 tornadoes never before seen in the areas where they've been seen.
		Would you have somebody on the show to discuss this matter?
		Now, I have no idea who to have except for Stan Dale.
		I too am puzzled and troubled, not surprised, mind you, but puzzled and troubled about the weather.
		Now, as you know, I'm going up to Alaska toward the end of the week, and I see that I've got a fax here already from the Stottendam, the ship that has sailed.
		Greetings, Art, from the MS Stottendam.
		It's a cold sea.
		Wish Nevada Heat was here.
		We are all having a ball.
		Or is that a bell?
		No, it'll be a bell when I get there.
		It's a ball now.
		We listened to a great lecture by Dr. Ed this morning, and right now Anthony West is speaking, so I'm trying to do two things at once.
		No one has come to blows yet.
		Everything is going along quite civilized, but there definitely is an electricity and energy in the air.
		The lines are being drawn in the Sahara Sands.
		You might want to bring a referee whistle with you.
		I'm looking forward to that.
		And then next Sunday's Dreamland will be broadcast from my Vancouver affiliate, CFUN, in obviously Vancouver.
		I'm very much looking forward to that.
		I've got a big long article here with regard to NASA.
		It was in the Houston Chronicle.
		Seems NASA can't figure out what to name the new International Space Station.
		Now, my Faxer wants to call it Stargate.
		I don't know.
		That now is almost too common.
		What do you think?
		What would be a good name for the new International Space Station?
unidentified		How about Black Hole?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doesn't a black hole absorb all light that passes by?
		In this case, it would absorb all money that passes by, and we'd call it Black Hole.
		Or maybe we could call it Event Horizon.
		Anyway, as if construction delays and rising costs weren't enough, NASA is now grappling with another space station dilemma.
		What to call it?
		The International Space Station has no name other than the International Space Station, or ISS for short.
		The usual alpha bet soup from NASA.
		Station managers want a real name.
		Astronauts want a real name.
		And public affairs types really, really want something catchier than ISS, pronounced letter by letter, ISS.
		And I think they've got a good point.
		What should we call the new space station?
		The international, let's see, it's got to have an international flavor to it, right?
		If not a new millennium.
		Ooh, how about calling it the millennium?
		Too much of a mouthful, you think?
		The millennium.
		That'd be a pretty good name.
		Anyway, I'm sure that a lot of you will think about it out there.
		Here's yet another review, and they're coming in mixed on deep impact.
		This one from Doris Art, I saw Deep Impact.
		Some writer out there is obviously an avid fan of Coast to Coast.
		A lot of what's being discussed on your show was in the movie.
		They had everything in there except you and the aliens.
		They had every single one of the scenarios you've examined on your show.
		It was cool, but creepy.
		The combination of your show and the movie made the possibility all the more real.
		I cried a lot.
		It was very sad.
		I saw it on Mother's Day.
		I have a four and eight year old, both girls.
		All right, thank you very much, Doris.
		I appreciate that.
		And I am going to see it.
		I almost saw it the other day, but just didn't quite have enough time.
		So I am going to see it shortly.
		And it's true, we have examined in great detail the various scenarios inherent in the possibility of something coming our way.
		Some big, unstoppable rock that would give us just, you know, just enough time to consider what great people we've been all our lives and wonder what lies immediately ahead and probably pray for what we imagine lies ahead.
unidentified		Gunshot Thank you.
unidentified		now we take you back to the night of may 11th 1998 on art bell somewhere in time Well, I'll try and get a better shot of it up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But my wife bought me a new t-shirt today.
		It really is something.
		So I'm going to try and get a closer shot of it.
		I've got one up there right now.
		See if you can figure out what you're seeing.
		It's on my studio camera.
		Okay, here we go.
		Open lines directly ahead.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, this is Bob in Middle Opark, California.
		Hello, Bob.
		Yeah, I was surprised, Art, when you were reading today's news that you didn't mention about the nukes going off in India.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is true they have tested nuclear weapons in India, and Pakistan is not happy.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		I heard Benazir Bhutto.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They claim there was no release of radiation above surface.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, they always claim that.
unidentified		Right, but on the BBC news, Bhutto said that she predicted that the Pakistan will respond by testing a nuke themselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly wouldn't surprise me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And eventually, they'll begin testing them on each other's territory.
unidentified		Oh, no.
unidentified		I hope not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would say that it's nearly inevitable.
		All right, thank you very much.
		And maybe the world needs to get a second look at what it's like to use a nuclear device in anger.
		Just to remember.
		Just to remember.
		But it's almost inevitable, India and Pakistan.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
		Going once, going twice, gone.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, Arthur, this is Curtis from San Diego.
		Hello.
		How you doing today?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		Oh, I was watching C-SPAN all day.
unidentified		Did you see any of it today?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, not even a little.
unidentified		Why?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did they have?
unidentified		Oh, it was very interesting.
unidentified		They had the new subcommittee for human rights issues dealing with sealed documents about Honduras and Guadalajara.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Guatemala?
unidentified		Yeah, well, however you pronounce it.
		And President Kennedy and all that.
		So it was weird.
		Like, they're going to really open the files finally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean on Kennedy?
		They're going to open the files on what?
		Kennedy?
unidentified		Well, they mentioned him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are you saying they're going to open the files on?
unidentified		Just all kinds of human rights violations over the years.
		And the State Department and the Federal Department didn't even show up.
		They were asked to, but they weren't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not surprised.
		I mean, we have violated human rights.
		Probably as much as anybody else.
unidentified		And it's a good year for it to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, you've got to remember that in the U.S., even though I still maintain that we are absolutely the best place to live on the face of the earth, and I've been in plenty of them, so I know, the fact of the matter is that we are, to a great degree, victims of our own propaganda.
		We're the biggest, we're the best.
		We have more freedom than anybody else.
		And while all of these things have a germ of truth in them, a lot of them have slipped a little bit.
		We tend not to hear the bad news here because they don't print bad news here.
		They print bad news over there about us.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 11, 1998.
		Can't stay alive without your love.
		Oh, baby, don't leave me.
		I can't expect I'm your kid.
		Don't leave me this way Baby, my heart is full of love and desire for you Now come on down and do what you gotta do You started this fire down in my soul Now can't you see it's burning out of control Come on, satisfy the need in me Only you're loving and everything.
		Don't you leave me this way?
		Don't you understand?
		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks.
		Tonight's an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 11th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know the two companies that I read about that were fighting to take the first photographs of the new millennium first light?
		They're going to put up big fences so other companies couldn't hog in with their cameras and see the new dawn of the first dawn of the new millennium.
		This would be karma.
		John in Circleville, Ohio says, Hey Art.
		What happens if it's cloudy?
		By the way, once again, you're hearing Lorena McKennett.
		I like this one, too.
		Anyway, welcome back.
		We're going to have open lines through the top of the hour, and then we will have Chuck Missler and Mark Eastman, and I think you're going to find that very, very interesting.
unidentified		I'm certainly looking forward to it.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of May 11, 1998, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art Bell Well, from Bryn Marie in San Francisco, the first nominations for the space station name have come in.
		Several options come to mind.
		Corporate sponsors could take turns in exchange for a year's upkeep costs.
		They can name the station after whoever they want.
		Like we do with sports stadiums.
		The McDonald Space Station.
		Billions and billions served.
		Billions and billions of miles to go before we sleep, whatever.
		Or science fiction.
		The various science fiction writers.
		Maybe even call it Babylon 1.
		And then finally, if it's sentimentality, how about Sagan?
		In short, anything will work as long as it doesn't rhyme with the word trouble, as in Hubble.
		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Well, hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am Cindy, and I am in Listen to KEX, 1190.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Portland?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so there you are up in Oregon someplace.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Well, I'm in McMinnville.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		McMinnville, all right?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I have a request.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know something about McMinnville.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is something happened in McMinnville, Oregon?
unidentified		Well, I think that we had a UFO here in like 1952 or 3 or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe that's what it was.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Yeah, I heard that was mentioned on your show.
		I didn't actually get to listen to that part of it because my real talk ran out of tape.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Get a longer tape.
unidentified		Well, I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good for you.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I got tired of missing the last hour of your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm tired of missing it, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, what's up?
unidentified		Well, I had a little power problem on Friday when Lori Torrey was on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And my power was out from 7.30 till like 1.30.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you missed the whole thing about McMinnville, huh?
unidentified		I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You guys, well, I guess you haven't seen the new revised map yet, huh?
unidentified		No, I haven't.
unidentified		We're not here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the new map, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not.
unidentified		We weren't on the old map.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know, but now there's a big red X over McMinnville.
unidentified		Oh, really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Oh, dear.
unidentified		Well, it's time to move.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just kidding you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, the big red X is about over me.
unidentified		Oh, really?
		Yeah.
		And what does that red X signify?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Deep impact point.
unidentified		Deep impact?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, an asteroid is going to hit roughly where I am.
unidentified		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, exactly where I am.
unidentified		And that's what she says?
		Yeah.
		Oh, wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm not joking now.
		I know it's hard to tell sometimes, but I'm serious now.
		Yeah, it's going to hit here.
		I always figured it would.
		And I always figured to talk it in, and I will.
unidentified		Well, I really enjoy your dry sense of humor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it dry?
unidentified		It's pretty dry.
unidentified		I know that driving down the road with my headphones on, people just think I'm crazy because I'm just laughing my head off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it does present an odd picture when you look into the next car and the person appears to be having a very animated conversation with themselves or worse yet, laughing hysterically.
		Usually I hit the brake and go back three or four car lengths.
		Thank you very much for the call, dear, and take care.
		It is odd.
		It's like when you go down the street and you see some guy just chattering away with himself and many times answering himself as well.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Art Bell.
		How you doing?
		It's Kathy from Woodbridge, New Jersey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Kathy.
unidentified		12 days of rain.
unidentified		Tomorrow the sun will come out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I'm hearing.
		I'm telling you, it has been a hell of a year.
		And it's not even warm out here yet.
unidentified		Did you hear we're going to have, in certain places, we're going to have a lot of mice, a lot of rattlesnake, a lot of ticks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, you can't compete with locusts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have locusts.
unidentified		Did they get there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, they are still short of perump, thank goodness, but they're close.
unidentified		That's good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We also now have, Check this out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Killer Bees.
unidentified		We had some kind of nest in one of my rose bushes, and I was afraid to take it out.
		I let it there for literally the whole winter.
		And I never saw anything like this in my life.
		This thing looked like it was an African bee nest.
		And I was right.
		I was right.
		We finally took it down, and we took it to someone that knew it was an African bee nest.
		It was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then you made a good move.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I read a story the other day about a couple guys who put the equivalent of about a half a stick of dynamite in a bee's nest.
unidentified		Darwin Award.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And yeah, it was a Darwin Award thing.
		And they went and hid in the shed, blew the window out of the shed, cut them.
		They're trying to take the guy to the hospital.
		The few surviving bees from the bomb blast stung the guy, and he didn't know he was allergic to bees, and it killed him.
unidentified		That's it for him.
unidentified		Hey, Art, I called up my friend Lynn Samuels at WABC Radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Told him how much I liked the new Art Bell commercial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they have a new Art Bell commercial?
unidentified		Yes, I taped it.
		I had it on cue.
		I'll send it to you, but I do have it on cue.
		It's 30 seconds long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding.
unidentified		Fantastic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Play it.
unidentified		Play it aloud.
unidentified		Play it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Play it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is from WABC, huh?
unidentified		Yeah, here goes, folks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me hear it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Should be interesting.
unidentified		They said an overnight show like Art Bell could never make it in New York.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of the critics have suddenly gone silent.
unidentified		I think it is time we demonstrated the full power of this station.
		Now there's a new number one overnight program, Art Bell Overnight.
		This station is allowed the ultimate power in the universe.
		Now, if you see a few people not listening to Art Bell, would you turn the radio off for us?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good for you.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		If you're talking about it, we're talking about it.
unidentified		News Talk Radio 77, WABC.
		News Talk Radio 77.
		News Talk Radio 77.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		WABC.
unidentified		Art Bells, this is Lynn Samuels at WABC in New York.
unidentified		I love you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Huh?
		God, that's great, Kathy.
		Listen.
unidentified		We love you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do me a favor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely mail that to me, will you?
unidentified		You bet.
		I'll get a brand new Sony tape, set it up for you so it's right in the middle.
		Art will dig you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Altogether, Tom.
unidentified		You are the guy to talk in the meteors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See you later.
		Oh, that is really neat.
		I have such a sentimental attachment to WAPC in New York.
		And I grew up with it.
unidentified		It's one of those things you grew up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there it is.
		That was really cool.
		I've, of course, never heard that until just now.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		It's Linda calling from Langley, B.C. I'm listening to you on CFUN just outside of Vancouver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm going to be there on the end of the week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then, of course, once again, as I come back.
unidentified		I'm sure you'll bring the sunshine with you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hope so.
		You know, I got a patch from somebody on board the ship, and they're on their way, of course, from Vancouver up toward Alaska now.
		And they said, oh, man, it's cold.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, it's been colder, but yeah, they had on our news hour tonight, they were showing the ship leaving the port.
		Really?
		It's on its way, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They showed that on the news, huh?
unidentified		Well, just during the weather report, you know.
unidentified		But the reason I thought I'd phone is you were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look at this ship sailing into area of doom.
unidentified		No, Titanic's over and done with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hope so.
unidentified		No, I was phoning.
		I hadn't heard about the new International Space Station.
		I guess I've been busy with my own personal life, but you were asking about new names, and I was fiddling around with this.
		And I thought, what about the name Soul?
		S-O-U-L?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Soul?
unidentified		Soul.
		Because I thought a soul never dies.
		It lives on forever.
		And it would take a lot of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then there's Soul Traveler.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
unidentified		But I was thinking what the letters would stand for was Station of Universal Life, because eventually we may have aliens hooked in there, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Huh.
unidentified		Just a thought.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Station of Universal Life.
unidentified		Something like that.
		Huh.
		Yeah, I was just kicking things around.
		I thought, well, soul, that's kind of nice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or if we have a war here on Earth, it could be Station of Last Life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or we could call it the Seedling.
unidentified		The Seedling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		that's right that uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		that they'd have to have All right, thank you very much.
unidentified		You're welcome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You take care.
unidentified		Soul, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Morgan from Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Morgan!
unidentified		Yo.
unidentified		I'd like to read a short letter I wrote to the NASA Public Affairs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would prefer that you do not read, if you wouldn't mind, but do give us a sense of what you said to them.
unidentified		Well, I wrote in response to a newspaper article to name the space station.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
unidentified		So I named it unity.
		Unity.
		In my hope that, you know, through global cooperation, Earth will unify.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		perhaps you know what kind of What kind of unity do you want?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because that sounds like a softer word with regard to George Bush's new world order.
unidentified		Oh, please don't compare it to George Bush.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean by unity?
unidentified		Well, I mean all of mankind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know what you mean.
unidentified		Unifying to hunger, disease, poverty, indifference, and the exploration of space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that would require a world tax.
unidentified		No, no.
unidentified		The International Space Station is already international.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but I mean, how many countries can have astronauts up there at one time?
unidentified		Seven, I believe.
unidentified		Seven, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you have a Palestinian and an Israeli there at The same time?
unidentified		Certainly, certainly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would?
unidentified		Sure, all different types.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably they draw like a line on the floor with paint.
unidentified		No, you can get together for the causes of science.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I don't see that it would be any different up there than it is down here.
		So if there is really unity here, then there could be unity there.
		Otherwise, it's...
		Otherwise, it's going to be fake unity.
unidentified		It's a starting point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		All right.
		Unity is hereby submitted.
		Remember, don't mail these to me.
		Email name suggestions to NASA.
		I'm sure there's an email.
		I hate starting these things because I'll see this in my email for the next year.
		Oh, West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is Eleanor at San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there.
unidentified		Hi, and I had a couple of things for you.
unidentified		One was my guest for the space station name was ISIS.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		ISIS?
unidentified		I was just using the first letters ISS, a International Space Station Association.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's not bad.
unidentified		And then I wanted to know how the show was here with the Rickett C. Hole in San Diego.
unidentified		I missed that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, I understand.
		It came off tremendously well.
		They had a stand-up crowd.
unidentified		Oh, I thought you might have been there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't go down.
unidentified		You weren't able to make it.
		Oh, that's too bad.
		You know, because I figured that, you know, Linda was there, and I figured Daniel brings me.
		How is he doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Daniel's fine.
		My guess is Daniel.
		Well, yeah, he's already on the ship.
unidentified		Oh, great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're already cruising.
unidentified		Oh, wonderful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		While I stay here and do my airwork.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, they're probably listening to me, some of them on the ship right now.
unidentified		That's great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, you guys, come on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Send me an expensive fax.
unidentified		Pardon me?
unidentified		They did?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, somebody sent me a fax earlier.
		They can send a fax actually from the ship.
		It's just really expensive to make phone calls or fax from the ship.
		Oh, boy.
unidentified		Did you ever get any more questions or answers on the picture of the woman that you had on that magazine, in your magazine?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you mean, who is this?
unidentified		Yeah, who's the woman?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had a million guesses, and the person who sent the original facts never told us who it is.
unidentified		Do they know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think so, but we were never told, so until we're told, I can't tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know the best guess?
unidentified		What?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think it was the girl from Titanic.
unidentified		Well, I don't know.
		You know, I had a funny feeling about there was another picture that I saw just recently, and it just kind of a shock to me.
		This person was dead.
		But it looked like that picture.
		And I was trying to find it again.
		I was going to send it to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		If you do, send it along, and I'll take a look.
		All right.
unidentified		Okay, great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, David.
		Take care.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Art, Marty from Oakland, New Jersey.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Marty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm fine.
unidentified		Good.
unidentified		Art, a couple of weeks ago, there was a rumor going around that WPHT in Philadelphia was going to be dropping your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think so.
		In fact, let me tell you something, all right?
		Yes.
		We had a 2,400% inning.
		Well, we're always displaced for ball games.
unidentified		Oh, I didn't know that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		Ball games rule.
		Everything else gets pushed.
		That's why it works.
unidentified		Well, that's great news.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many innings are they playing?
unidentified		Oh, I don't follow that nonsense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I remember occasionally the Dodgers used to get into a game and they'd play about 22 innings, and that sucker wouldn't end until about 2.30 in the morning.
unidentified		Sports to me is like attending a borough council meeting.
unidentified		It's something that just doesn't do a thing for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well.
unidentified		And I realize I'm in the minority, but I just couldn't believe that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, to soothe you, a 2,400% increase is almost unheard of in the broadcast industry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's unbelievable.
unidentified		It is, and you deserve every bit of it, my friend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you very much, Marty.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You take care.
		Now, baseball does that, and we just have to live with that fact.
		After all, consider all the people listening to baseball.
		Suppose in the middle of the ninth inning, they were to cut away to go to the Art Bell program.
		I'd rather not be responsible for that.
		So they just, you know, you don't do that.
		I mean, when there is a tight contest underway and it's running really late, that means it's tied.
		And while I am certainly not a baseball fan, I understand that to cut away in the middle of the night in a tie game would be to risk your radio station, your tower, and possibly even your license altogether, your license to broadcast.
		You'd be mobbed.
		Talk audiences and baseball audiences are generally not all that compatible.
		You know, when the game is over, why, usually the talk people come back and the baseball people all go away.
		They don't want to hear talk.
		And so they're not compatible.
		So it takes a little while for one to exchange to the other.
		Or in some cases, I suppose, you could have baseball fans that transition into talk.
		Sometimes, from the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AMN when we return.
		Chuck Missler and Mark Eastman.
		And we're going to talk about the Christian perspective on UFOs, Brookings, and a whole lot more.
		So, as the old but trusty saying goes, don't touch that dial.
unidentified		You're listening to ArcBell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 11, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from May
		Coast to Coast AM from May 11, 1998.
		11, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from May 11, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from May 11, 1998.
		And in the springtime of here, when the trees are round with leaves, when the ash will look and their birds are new, and dressed in ribbons here, Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bells Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired May 11th, 1998.
		Good evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, whatever the case may be in your time zone.
		Coming up shortly, Mark Eastman, who will kick this thing off.
		Chuck Missler will be here as well.
		Unfortunately, his hotel telephone is full of something very ugly indeed.
		So he's having to go find another phone, and we'll get Chuck in on this just as soon as we can.
		Anyway, a Mark Eastman first, followed by and joined by Chuck Misler as soon as he gets to a phone.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of May 11, 1998, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		While they're trying to name the International Space Station, this is a rare opportunity for you.
		They don't have a name yet.
		We have already a number of suggestions.
		They actually don't have a name.
		It needs a dramatic, very dramatic name.
		Something with a real flare, because they're going to spend a lot of money on this.
		I was thinking of Black Hole or Event Horizon.
		And the event would be to gobble up our money.
		And it is going to do that the way they've got it planned.
		There are people with better ideas.
		Cheaper, faster, bigger.
		But they don't want to do that.
		They want the international expensive multi-billion dollar station.
		You might be thinking about that.
		Well, anyway, let us begin.
		Mark Easeman is actually Dr. Mark Easeman.
		He's 39 years old.
		He is a graduate of the University of California at San Diego School of Medicine.
		He is a full-time family physician in Southern California who has been researching UFOs for 10 years.
		He's interviewed many contactees in the medical setting.
		He's the author of four books, including Alien Encounters.
		In due time, he will be joined by Chuck Missler.
		But for now, here is Mark Eastman.
		Doctor, welcome.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for having me, Art.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		It's definitely a pleasure to you.
unidentified		Sure.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		We appreciate it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First of all, let me establish this.
		It doesn't say anything in here about it, but I take it yours is the Christian perspective.
		Would that be fair, Doctor?
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, Chuck Missler and I are both Christians.
		We both believe that the Bible is the Word of God, and we believe that there are a number of aspects of the UFO ET phenomenon that seem to be anticipated by the biblical prophets.
		And so we tried to address that issue in our book, and we will indeed develop that as the night goes on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, the first obvious question is whether you believe What do you think?
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, I was a non-Christian for many years.
		I was a skeptic, an evolutionist, agnostic, whatever you want to call it, and was convinced that the Bible was nothing but a bunch of myths and fairy tales.
		And I was a fairly, I studied UFOs a little bit while I was going through college and medical school and was convinced in extraterrestrial life from the sort of normal perspective, the biblical, the non-biblical perspective, that indeed we were the products of evolution.
		Therefore, there must be beings out there that also evolved.
		After I became convinced that the Bible was the Word of God and I became a Christian, I sort of revisited the issue.
		Number one, as I sent you in the information, we do believe that UFOs are real.
		In fact, we spend the first part of the book dealing about the history of UFOs, the fact that they've been here for thousands of years, the fact that they do appear to have a reality In them, and that they are historical, dating way back almost until the earliest recorded history of mankind.
		So, we do believe that they are a real phenomenon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I take it then that you obviously must believe that man is not the only creation of God, or do you believe, as the Bible strictly seems to suggest, that we are the only creation of God?
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the Bible is actually silent on that issue.
		Yeah, the Bible does not anywhere, in my understanding, and I'm sure Chuck would back me up on this because we've been interviewed and discussed this extensively, there is no statement in the Bible about extraterrestrials or life other than on planet Earth.
		The Bible is a message that was given through the prophets to mankind about our history and God's plan for mankind.
		Now, so the Bible is definitely, I believe, silent on the issue of extraterrestrial life.
		Let me say this, that I've been studying this area for years.
		I've been a pretty regular listener of your show and have heard the, you know, for about two and a half years now, and have heard many, many of the perspectives, and also read most of the major authors, Jacques Valet, J. Alan Hynek, etc.
		And I don't see compelling evidence for what I would call hominoid extraterrestrials from another planet.
		What we do seem to have, and we'll develop this as the night goes on, is we are being visited by an intelligence, but it seems to be, the evidence seems to be that we're dealing with an interdimensional intelligence that is beings from another dimension.
		I often will, when I'm asked this question, I will often state that if there is life on other planets, it must have been created too, because when you look at the human body, you look at something like the DNA molecule.
		The DNA molecule is a molecule which carries a digital, expressible in mathematical terms, a digital error correcting code.
		And when I saw that and I realized that, I realized that there's no way that it could have arisen by chance.
		And so if there is extraterrestrial...
		if you would roll over that one more time the DNA molecule is a Our DNA molecule is a vastly complex molecule.
		Now, what's interesting, Art, is that our educational institutions want us to believe that a lightning bolt or some other energy source struck a puddle 3 billion years ago and gradually over time the DNA molecule evolved.
		Well, the problem is, Art, is that with all of the PhDs, all of the molecular biologists, the biochemists that we have today, if they started with raw materials, meaning just atom atoms, they cannot, with all of their know-how and all of the laboratory equipment that is available today, they can't even create a DNA molecule.
		So using information, know-how, biochemical expertise that we have with laboratory equipment and all of the resources available to our universities, we cannot create a DNA molecule.
		And yet they ask us to believe that a lightning bolt striking a puddle did it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But how do you reconcile, Doctor, all of the scientific evidence for creation?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, for evolution.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have to, when we talk about evolution, we have to define our terms.
		I believe that there is such a thing as evolution within the species.
		In other words, within the populations of, say, Darwin's finches.
		We do see natural selection working on existing gene pools to cause certain genes to be expressed and be more predominant in certain environments as opposed to others.
		So evolution within a species is indeed something that I believe in and we see evolutionists refer to it as microevolution.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to ask macro.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you talking about macroevolution?
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		I'm talking about micro.
		Evolution within a species.
		I prefer to call it not microevolution, but variation within a kind.
		For example, if you take two medium brown mutt dogs found out in the wild, in one man's lifetime, you can take those two dogs and by selective breeding, you can create a species of five foot tall black dogs or one foot tall white dogs by simply, and if we were to line up the bones of all the forms in between and bury them in the sediment, people would look at that and say, look, it's proof of evolution.
		Well, it's proof of no such thing.
		It's simply proof that within the gene pool of what they call the wild type or a mutt, as we would refer to it, there is the capability to produce a wide variety of body types, skeletal types, skin types, etc.
		And we see the same thing within Darwin's finches.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But not evolution in the sense of monkey to man.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Right, there is no evidence.
		None.
		And I'm telling you, there are many evolution in Europe, Darwinian evolution in Europe and in Canada and many other places is dying on the vine because the evidence is coming out very strongly that there is no fossil evidence of any true transitional forms.
		And even more than that is the theory behind evolution.
		There is no explanation, I mean no explanation for the origin of DNA by chance.
		Not only that, in order to go from an amoeba to a man, you have to have an addition of genetic material that is about 2,000 times more complex in terms of the amount of DNA.
		And information scientists will tell you that information, codes, and programs will never arise by chance.
		And so in order to go from an amoeba to a man, you have to have the addition of billions of bits of what is called holistic information stored by the DNA molecule.
		And chance does not, cannot, and will not produce such codes and programs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You must then believe that as written, Adam and Eve were literal people.
		Literal people.
		Began that way, tossed out of the Garden of Eden, the whole thing.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long ago?
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Bible is not clear about that.
		It's something which is very vigorously debated within the church.
		There are those who would argue that it was around 6,000 years ago based on what is believed to be an unbroken genealogy from Adam to man.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you agree with that?
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		I lean towards that way, but I'm not dogmatic about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like one second, Adam was looking at an apple with one bite in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The next second, he opened his eyes, it was turning brown, and he was out of the garden.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Well, first God had to make Eve, and when God made Eve, Adam said, whoa, man.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		And that's how Eve got her name, woman.
unidentified		Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if he really said that.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the most beautiful naked woman standing there.
		I think Adam was impressed.
		So God had to make Eve.
		And then the story in the Bible is that they disobeyed God.
		And at that point, God may have introduced the entropy laws, which led ultimately to the decay in the DNA molecule.
		Now, as a physician, I treat the effects of the second law of thermodynamics all day.
		And if you think about the DNA molecule from an information point of view, the information scientists will tell you that information over time always degrades.
		The original tapes that the Beatles did in the 1960s, even though they've been stored in vaults, have developed informational errors, pop and click over time.
		The Dead Sea Scrolls, informationally intact in the beginning, have decayed tremendously.
		Records decay.
		CD-ROMs eventually will decay.
		And the DNA molecule, which is a physical, but it is an error, it carries an error-correcting digital code over time has indeed decayed.
		And so what we see over time is the DNA code, if you're God, let's assume that there is a God and that he's going to make a man and a woman.
		Well, God is omnipotent, we would assume that he would have made the code to be perfect with no errors in the beginning.
		And over time, the entropy laws have introduced errors into the code.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But there is another way to look at it, Doctor, and that is that the process of evolution itself causes adaptation of the genetic code to meet environmental requirements.
unidentified		Right.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Darwin, yeah, that's microevolution.
		Darwin, when he went to the Galapagos Islands and he saw all of these different types of finches, he saw finches with large beaks and small beaks and long beaks.
		He saw large finches and small finches.
		He noticed that the various finches, that the sizes and the shapes and the strength of their beaks and their musculature was adapted to the particular food available in their particular environment.
		Now, Darwin assumed that these were different species, that macroevolution had occurred and that the original finches that had been blown over or floated over on a log to the Galapagos Islands had evolved to the point where the species that were there now were no longer genetically compatible with the other birds.
		But in 1991, a paper was published in Scientific American where they showed that Darwin's finches, all the different types of species, are interbreedable.
		It's like, I mean, basically, if you take the small finches and breed them with the large finches, you get medium finches.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but again, your contention is that DNA over a period of time begins to get errors in it.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, informational errors, just like every other error correcting, or error, just like every other information storage system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's why I bring that up, because a lot of abduction cases seem to report what appears to be reproductive DNA-type research, and abductees will report seeing their own young.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, is it then reasonable to conclude that an interdimensional traveler from another complete society that has been around perhaps longer than ours has had a large degrading of their DNA, and they are using an infusion of our DNA to, in effect, correct future generations.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're actually pointing out something that I point out when I teach.
		In order to reverse the effect of the decay in the DNA molecule, it requires the input of additional information.
		So, yes, I would argue in theory that your contention there is correct.
		Whether that's really happening is an entirely different issue.
		But in order to correct the errors in the DNA molecule, chance will not do it.
		It takes biochemical expertise or know-how.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the key word is diversity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, even here on Earth, it has been my understanding that generally marriages, matings between different races has strengthened the DNA.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is correct.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is correct.
		The inbreeding that occurs when, in fact, there are islands, there's an island in the Philippines where there's a tremendous amount of inbreeding.
		Very little genetic material from the outside has gotten in, and the entire population has arthritis and a form of rickets, and these people, their bony structure looks like Neanderthals.
		They are living Neanderthals.
		And in fact, Neanderthal, when Rudolf Virkow in the 1800s was first given the chance to examine the bones of Neanderthal, he said Neanderthal is us, but with a lot of inbreeding has caused the development of a large number of the people to have arthritis and rickets, as a vitamin D deficiency.
		So that's indeed the diversity issue is improved when you have crossbreeding between the races, They don't have the genetic diversity that you need to survive in the wild.
		The wild type is always the more fit type.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then it brings up this obvious question.
		Going back then to, in more ways than one, the beginning, we had Adam and Eve, and they no doubt had wild, unrestrained sex and had a child.
		But then that child, in other words, there was a big problem with diversity then.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Well, remember, as I contended before, if God indeed did make Adam and Eve, and if God being omniscient being, created them, we presume that he would have created them without any errors in the genetic code.
		So that inbreeding at that time would not have been an issue.
		It would not have produced mutants like today.
		If you marry your sister or a cousin, you have a very great increased risk of a genetic error that they might have that's a recessive combining with a recessive gene that you might have, and then it gets expressed as some horrible disease.
		There were no genetic errors at that time, and it wasn't until after the fall of man and thousands of years of the second law taking effect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we are a genetic mess right now.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		We are a genetic mess, and I have a job because of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, I understand.
		Hold on, we're at the bottom of the hour.
		Or as some wise person once said, nothing says loving like marrying your cousin.
		Anyway, we're going to break here at the bottom of the hour.
		As soon as Chuck Missler gets to a phone that works, he will join us.
		It should be an interesting night, don't you think?
		I'm Art Bell, descendant of question mark.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 11, 1998.
		The Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Got a black magic woman Got a black magic woman Got a black magic woman Thank
		you.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 11th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got Dr. Mark Eastman, and now, coming up in a moment, Chuck Missler will join him.
unidentified		Don't say that you don't me.
unidentified		Ha ha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		Still cool in our desert where it should be hot.
		Wonder how it is where you are.
		The weather certainly is changing, isn't it?
		We'll talk to these two about that too.
unidentified		We'll talk to these two about that too.
		You're listening to Arc Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 11, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coast to Coast AM Now, joining us, Chuck Missler.
		He received a congressional appointment to the United States Naval Academy at Annapolis, Maryland, graduated with honors, received his commission in the U.S. Air Force.
		By the time he completed his military obligations, he had become Branch Chief of the Air Force's Department of Guided Missiles.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		His civilian career began as a systems engineer at TRW, followed by a senior analyst position in a think tank research center for both the intelligence community and the Department of Defense.
		Meanwhile, he completed a master's degree in engineering at UCLA with additional postgraduate studies, including applied mathematics, advanced statistics, and informational sciences.
		Then was recruited by the Ford Motor Company into a senior management position.
		Left Ford to start his own company.
		Chuck, welcome to the program, I hope.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Oh, indeed, and I appreciate the opportunity, Ark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was a bit of a fight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The hotel phone didn't work, so now we have you, I think, sitting at a phone booth someplace with a table.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Yes, there's a.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And a chair?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Yes, there's a little lobby area, and I don't think it's trafficked much, and I've got a chair and a table, and glad to spend the time with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excellent.
		All right.
		We, in the first half hour, while you were probably madly dashing around, have been talking about genetics, Adam and Eve, evolution versus creation, and all that sort of thing.
		And the good doctor has been laying out why he believes that we are created.
		We are not something that evolved from a strike of lightning into a soup of something or another.
		And then we crawled forth and finally became what we are today.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm glad that that sounds like constructive conversation.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		And Mark is a good friend, and we've collaborated on a number of works, and he's a very competent guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the question that we began with was, are UFOs real?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, that's a very fundamental issue.
		And we feel we've researched that very thoroughly.
		And it's probably the most difficult research area we've ever undertaken because of all the screwball stuff that's out there.
		There's so many hoaxes, so much nonsense, and I've also been shocked to Discover very well-funded disinformation in that area.
		But when you strip all that away, you're left with a residue that is really pretty undeniable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going back just a little bit, you guys absolutely can see the both of you that there are people paid to disinform.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely, yes.
		I've got to speak carefully here because I am not on any active clearances at the moment, but I have held them in the past, and because of my background, I work hard to honor those.
		I have friends in the classified community that have helped me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're telling me you have personal knowledge, first-hand knowledge, that what I just said is true, but you can't talk about the details.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		There are friends of mine that are still within the deeply classified community, and we can talk a little bit about that.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		But the point is, clearly, and it's a mystery to many of them exactly what's going on, but clearly there's more than one group within the government labyrinth that seem to spend significant budgets on disinformation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Here's the reason that I ask.
		As you know, my program is by far the largest of its type.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I encounter from time to time people that I would swear up and down are paid disinformants.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that surprising?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so I would imagine if what you say you know to be true is true, that this program would be the target of, absolutely would be the target of disinformation.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		I would subscribe to that 100%, Art, because I can't speculate on what their agenda is.
		That's a complicated question.
		However, there's just no question about it.
		I think anyone that's followed this area carefully over the years will generally subscribe to the fact that there is a lot of disinformation, and some of it is not trivial pranks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, yes.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		That's a good example because if one studies it carefully, there seems to be pretty good evidence that it's a hoax.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		On the other hand, that's not the kind of thing that a couple of guys cooked up over a weekend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're darn right.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		When you study that thing, you begin to realize, if you have any background in production, that thing had quite a budget.
		Someone went through an awful lot of trouble.
		What's a mystery about it is they didn't go to quite enough trouble to make it thoroughly convincing.
		There are a couple of tip-offs in the thing.
		The fact that you've got a guy behind the glass wearing a surgical mask is an example of that.
		The point is, I happened to, I was inquiring, I've got to be careful how I say this, I had some friends there in the deeply classified community, and that's one of the questions I brought up.
		He says, you know, the autopsy video is obviously something that required a significant budget, a budget that's probably larger than they recovered by promoting the video.
		And the inadvertent disclosure was, there's plenty of money in the black community.
		Now, in the vocabulary we're talking about, black is not a racist thing.
		It's a term used of what's called a compartmented program.
		And maybe it's appropriate to just give a brief tutorial here.
		There are obviously contracts that are classified, secret, top secret, or whatever.
		If you really want to secure a contract, the next level is what they call compartmentization.
		What they do is they classify the existence of the contract.
		And since that is typically an intelligence ops, not necessarily, but usually, the cliché is the program went black.
		It's a black ops.
		I was shocked to discover, Art, that there is a third level.
		I was chairman of the board of a publicly traded defense contractor, and I was called into a meeting in which I discovered that there is a level of classification that in my several decades of defense activities, I never even knew about.
		And that's where the existence of your customer is classified.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of what?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		The existence of the customer is classified.
		And we were in a meeting.
		I was the controlling shareholder.
		I was called in, and we asked to have our banker represented, First Interstate Bank was called in.
		And the people that came in passed out their business cards, but quickly pointed out that the titles and names are covers, and we knew that.
		And they pointed out that we were eligible for our contract.
		I won't go through the whole thing.
		I won't bore you with it.
		The point is, it turned out we did succeed in getting the contract, and it was the B-2 before it was handed over to Notre.
		And the little business card said High Technology Research Associates, but that was just a cover at the time.
		The point is, I didn't realize there's a whole infrastructure, there are courts and other procedures to handle contractors' problems and things, in a community that is even deeper than the black community.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, let's stick with black for a second.
		I would like to understand a few things about black ops.
		One, if with regard to the UFO issue there is disinformation being spread intentionally, and I think we all agree there is, what is the motive?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		That is a subject of substantial speculation.
		I'll tell you what makes it complicated to try to analyze is because some of the disinformation is aimed at discrediting the whole UFO area.
		But there's also projects sprung that seem to bolster the UFO area.
		I'll give you one example.
		I personally have the suspicion, let me say it very carefully, I personally have the suspicion that the sighting on March 13th of 1997 over Phoenix, Arizona, I believe that that was a program, a military program of projection holography.
		The Department of Defense had a program called Non-Lethal Weapons that went black in 1994.
		And I have no idea how they really execute this, but apparently they have the technology to create very large-scale illusions.
		The enigma is what do you do with it?
		You know, you can intimidate a battlefield, who knows.
		It's my suspicion for some subtle reasons that what really went on in Phoenix was a demonstration or a trial or a test of that technology.
		I suspect that what went over that segment of Arizona was not a UFO as We generally would tend to define it.
		I think personally, that was a military gambit of some kind as a test.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but let's reason this out a little bit.
		The military, specifically the Air Force, for example, not long ago had this big news conference with Colonel Haynes to debunk the whole Roswell business.
		And case closed, Roswell case closed, they called it, whatever it was.
		Now, that would indicate that the government, as represented by the military, is trying to debunk the whole UFO thing.
		So why in God's name would they do something to intentionally create the illusion of a gigantic UFO over a major city?
		I mean, they're working...
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		The thing that missed, following the Roswell theme, you could make a log of the various cover stories that have been sprung from 1947 on.
		And what's really a mystery about that is the cover stories are really fragile.
		They're really absurd.
		and this last one being no different.
		You would think And the truth of the matter is, there are all kinds of subgroups, many of them at war with each other for various reasons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, the doctor would know about that.
		The drug enforcement agency, for example, monitors even common everyday doctors and what they dispense.
		And if they dispense too much pain medicine, they get in trouble, right, Doctor?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Yes, very true.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		And so one of the things I also suspect something that is another controversy is this whole MJ-12 issue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		And I've been through those documents, and I also have been through all the debunking of years ago.
		And one of the suspicions that I've returned to, and it's just a suspicion, you have to be candid, I don't have inside information on this one, but I suspect, for lots of reasons, that the MJ-12 kind of thing does indeed exist.
		That there is some kind of a group that enjoys very deep cover.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, Stan Friedman believes very much these are indeed authentic documents.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		And I am very impressed with Stan and the approach that he took to his research.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		And I think that also it's interesting that the Vatican, in recent weeks, have a spokesman by the name of Malducci.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		He's appeared on Italian television five times at least that we know about.
unidentified		That's correct.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		And asserting that the Vatican have a research, I mean an intelligence network, probably second to none.
		He argues that the UFOs are very real.
		He made an interesting slip of the tongue because in alluding to one of the scientists, he called him an MJ-12 scientist.
		He did?
		Yes, he did.
		And that startled me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my, I missed that.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		And that caught my eye.
		I contacted through up through, fortunately, I'm blessed with a good team of guys, and one of them is John Loffler, who's a good friend of Maliki Martin.
		And he's sort of one of the experts of Vatican Watchers, if you will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I talked to Maliki the other day, and by the way, he confirmed everything you just said, not the MJ-12 business, but he said, look, the aliens are absolutely real.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, we wanted to find out if this Balducci thing was real or if it was one of these other, you know, these strange echoes you hear.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		And apparently Balducci is legitimate, is real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		And it was Balducci's remark.
		He happened to allude, and I forgot the guy's name, though.
		He's alluding to one of the experts or scientists.
		But he called him an MJ-12 scientist, which I thought was interesting because if nothing else, if nothing else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		it wouldn't have been a slip of the tongue Come on now.
		MJ-12 scientist.
		That is not...
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think so.
		So the thing that hit me talking to Stan Friedman and being aware of his thoroughness and methodical approach to life, what intrigued me is this whole surfacing of documents 20 years ago and their subsequent debunking is exactly the kind of art form that the intelligence community has developed to a high level of science.
		The ability to surface a story and have it subsequently debunked is the perfect way to cover an operation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, is there any advice you can give to the listening audience with respect to how to discern when you're hearing disinformation or a paid disinformation agent?
		I ask that because everybody is accused of being one, including me, all the time.
		I get so sick of it, I finally tell people, yeah, that's right.
		I get my check every month.
		But for a second, let us be serious.
		Is there a way to know?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		I think the only way, it almost becomes an exercise in cryptography in the sense that you have to judge the source and you have to put it against a fabric of background.
		Because good disinformation by its design and by the resources behind it should be not discernible as disinformation.
		So part of what one is faced with is putting together a perspective of multiple sources against a fabric of a worldview or a background.
		And that doesn't sound very pragmatic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I could give you a really good example of what I thought was disinformation.
		You remember the whole Hailbop thing with Courtney Brown?
		Professor Brown?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am convinced to this day, of course, Courtney Brown will not reveal where he got the photographs or anything else.
		But I am convinced that was disinformation.
		Intentional disinformation.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		And it may have been planted to hurt you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What didn't work?
		Yeah.
		But it may have been planted to hurt me.
		Now, we simply, of course, followed the trail of evidence back until we got stopped and Courtney Brown said, no, I won't tell you where I got it.
		And that's where it ended.
		But it smelled to high heaven of disinformation.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's one of the impressive things about Stanton Friedman's work, is that he took the resumes of the so-called 12 prominent people and discovered by getting into their backgrounds and building their dossiers that one of them changed and really spent his career quietly debunking UFO stories, even asserting technical cover stories that he knew were not scientifically valid.
		So that's one of the things.
		You do get the impression that there has been, even as early as the late 40s, early 50s, very, very organized disinformation to discredit or confuse the whole UFO area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Both of you sound like ufologists, and it seems to me that as Christians, you're slightly heretical, aren't you?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I've got to tell you candidly, the book is very controversial.
		Our book, Alien Encounters, is controversial not because of the UFO background.
		We, especially Mark, has done such a thorough job at just trying to recap for the average listener the whole background.
		But candidly, that's pretty straightforward, solid stuff.
		The thing that's made the book very, very bitterly controversial is not the UFO stuff, it's the Bible stuff.
		Because in chapter 10, we deal very aggressively, very assertively, with the whole issue of Genesis chapter 6.
		And it turns out that even though we take the classic position and defend it, I think, thoroughly, pastors and many, many people within the Christian community are really upset with us because they can't handle the whole idea of angels coming down and all that business.
		We present rather carefully and rather thoroughly what's called, what I might call the angel view of Genesis 6, that there were somehow some pretty strange beings that entered mankind's history to create a set of hybrids.
		That's in the Bible, and in fact, you really won't understand most of the Old Testament unless you recognize what's going on behind the scenes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we were talking again before you arrived, Chuck, with Dr. Eastman about genetics, and he said that our genetic code is, in effect, deteriorating, and that that would occur to any race.
		That even with error correction, genetic code would slowly sort of deteriorate.
		And as we know, from a lot of people who have claimed to have been abducted, the experimentation seems to be related to reproductive systems and to genetics.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		And by the way, we cover that in detail in the book, in chapter 5.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		That's something we can get into tonight as we go on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right, gentlemen, very good.
		Hold it right where you are.
		We're going to break, and you've got a good long, oh, I don't know, 10-minute or so break here.
		My guests are Chuck Missler and Dr. Mark Eastman.
		And we're talking.
		We're talking about the really the unthinkable for Christians.
		Many Christians, anyway.
		And that is the presence of others.
		Here once again is Lorena McKennett.
		If I'm lucky and I manage to get across town in Vancouver fast enough, this next coming Sunday, I'm going to be seeing her on stage.
		From the high desert, I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 11, 1998.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		You're listening to Arc Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight's an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 11th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chuck Missler and Dr. Mark Eastman are my guests, and they're talking about UFOs from the Christian perspective.
		But so far, with the exception of the creation part of the argument, they sound just like most other ufologists with a twist.
		We'll see.
unidentified		We'll see.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of May 11, 1998, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art Bell Karen in Houston would like to name the International Space Station.
		They were looking for a name, you know.
		She says, how about Voya?
		got a kind of a big brother sound to it.
		It might even indicate to the people of the world what the mission is, and they wouldn't like that, so I'm not sure that one would fly.
		Back now to my guests, Chuck Mizler and Dr. Mark Eastman.
		Gentlemen, welcome back.
		Doctor, before we proceed, I have a question for you, or somebody from Eugene, Oregon does.
		Alex asks, first of all, the famous lightning bolt theory states that amino acids were created in the primordial soup, not DNA, which may have evolved to its current level of complexity over millions of years.
		Dr. Eastman also implied that anything complex like the DNA molecule must have been created by an almighty intelligence.
		If this is the case, then what exactly created the power and complexity of a god?
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Lightning bolts striking a puddle is one that I get quite frequently.
		In 1953, Stanley Miller, who was actually a chemistry professor at UCSD, he won the Nobel Prize for an experiment where he passed methane, water, ammonia, gas in a chamber and he sparked it.
		And it was to try to imitate the spark and soup experiment.
		And he produced two amino acids, glycine and alanine, which are the simplest of amino acids.
		And the scientific community went crazy, and they said, ah, he's produced the building blocks of life by chance.
		Therefore, can't the whole building be built by chance.
		But when you look carefully at his experiments, you see there's a couple problems.
		Number one, Stanley Miller did not use chance.
		He used biochemical know-how.
		The first time he did the experiment, he got no products relevant to life.
		The second time, after using his knowledge of physical chemistry and biochemistry, he tweaked the experiments, optimized the condition, which means he introduced know-how, information, thoughts, concepts, ideas, and he was able to then produce the amino acids.
		Secondly, so he didn't use chance, he used information, which is what the creation model says.
		The creation model says that life is the product of information, know-how, thoughts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you, Doctor, was this primordial soup that he had concocted very probably what could have been on Earth had there been nothing so long ago?
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Based on the understanding in 1953, they believed that the ancient atmosphere was an oxygen-lacking atmosphere.
		And so he tried to imitate what was believed to be what was called the reducing atmosphere.
		When he did his experiment the second time, he did indeed produce the two amino acids.
		And I was taught this in college, and I was convinced, okay, if he made amino acids, then life can happen by chance.
		However, when you look at what he produced, he produced 87% tar.
		We're talking asphalt.
		13% of what he produced are carboxylic acids, roughly 13% carboxylic acids, which are chemicals that will poison enzymes.
		If Stanley Miller had drank the solution that created, he would have met his creator within six minutes because the carboxylic acids will irreversibly bind to enzymes causing instant death.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but he did nevertheless create some amino acids.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it possible to imagine that amino acids, given millions of years, could evolve into a complex DNA structure?
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely not.
		And here's why.
		When you look at amino acids, amino acids have a three-dimensional structure.
		And just for the sake of it, let's talk about, say, glycine.
		Glycine is an amino acid which all amino acids exist in left-handed and right-handed forms.
		Now, I use the term left-handed and right-handed because it's easy to illustrate on the radio.
		If you take your two hands and hold them against each other, they are mirror images of each other.
		Now, what Stanley Miller made was equal portions, 50% left and 50% right-handed amino acids.
		In fact, his experiment has been repeated dozens of times under dozens of different conditions, and the results are always the same.
		You produce a 50% mixture of left-handed and right-handed amino acids and building blocks.
		Now, here's the problem art.
		We are told that we evolved out of such a mixture.
		It's called a racemic mixture.
		But the problem is, is that you and me and all of the life forms on planet Earth, our amino acids are exclusively of the left-handed type.
		And so if you're going to imagine, say you're going to dip in by chance with a blindfolder, you're going to try to produce a protein, which is a string of amino acids, every time you reach in to pull out an amino acid, you have a 50% chance of grabbing a left or right-handed amino acid.
		And so it becomes a mathematical absurdity to assume that you could produce by chance a mixture of, from a mixture of 50% left and right-handed molecules, amino acids, that you could produce a structure that is pure left-handed proteins.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Now Mark, let me add one thing.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		You brought, see, the right-handed ones are toxic.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, exactly.
		If you take the right-handed amino acids and you put them in a mixture of living organisms, they are toxic to the organisms, they bind the amino acids, basically are, in a nutshell, what Stanley Miller created is equivalent to the kind of toxic environment that the government is spending billions of dollars trying to clean up.
		Why?
		Because it will kill you.
		And they ask us to believe that life arose out of such a soup?
		It is impossible.
		It is mathematically impossible because of the nature of the chirality, the right-handed and left-handed amino acids.
		And so there is a way to get a racemic mixture like this, this right-and-left-handed mixture.
		There is a way to get a protein out of it, but you must introduce something very powerful.
		It's called biochemical know-how.
		And that requires a mind.
		And that is why I today am no longer an evolutionist, but I was before.
		That is one of the many reasons.
		Secondly, we talked about the fact that the DNA molecule, which is not even related to amino acids, there's no chemical relationship other than they're built from the same kinds of atoms.
		The DNA molecule is a molecule which carries A tremendous digital error-correcting code, and they do not arise by chance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With the two of you being confirmed ufologists, in other words, believing that UFOs are real, not necessarily from other stars, systems, or planets, but rather from other dimensions.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doesn't matter.
		That's one of the major theories that involve UFOs in the mainstream UFO community.
		Very common.
		Then how can you be sure that our presence is not accounted for not by a creator as we understand in the Bible, but rather by other dimensional beings?
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's no doubt, Art, that as I said in the first hour, that we were created.
		Now, the complexity of the DNA molecule has caused some to speculate.
		Those that reject the existence of a creator have caused many to speculate that we were created by extraterrestrials.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How can you reject that?
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		In theory, I would say they're right.
		Information in theory, this way, Art, I would say they're right, in this way.
		Life on Earth did have to be created by an extraterrestrial entity because the laws of nature are insufficient to explain the origin of life now on planet Earth.
		So if we give, well, okay, we were sprinkled three billion years ago by aliens, we then have to say, well, where'd they come from?
		Well, they were sprinkled by a previous population.
		Well, where'd they come from?
		And the problem is, is you cannot have an infinite regression backwards in time because the universe is finite.
		Albert Einstein and Hawking and Penrose and Ellis and many others have shown that there is not an infinite amount of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Doctor, if your own theory is correct, and over time DNA deteriorates, and you were a very, very advanced race who knew that, then you might well seed planets with what you know to be very good DNA and let the garden grow.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but how much time did we have to do that?
		See, part of the problem, the good news is that modern science has demonstrated that the universe is finite.
		It had a beginning.
		That's what the Big Bang is all about.
		And I think the raw mathematics, you're talking 10 to the 17th seconds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, and I'm not so sure it has demonstrated that.
		I believe there was something that occurred, a Big Bang, if you will.
		But we just recently saw this gamma ray burst from 12 billion light-years out, which would be at the very edge of what we imagine to be the Big Bang right now.
		And it's like there was another Big Bang out there.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was definitely a Big Bang of some kind.
		Whether it was the creation of any new stars or universes or galaxies or anything remains to be speculated.
		But it was definitely some kind of a bang.
		But I think Chuck's pointing out that if we give that our population here on Earth was seeded, which is, by the way, the third explanation for our origin, Darwinian evolution and God are the first and second explanations, God, then Darwin.
		The third explanation is now we were seated here by ETs, you still don't have the answer to the question, well, if the laws of physics as we know them are basically uniform, the laws of chemistry and physics are uniform throughout our universe, you still don't have an explanation within our space-time domain that can explain the origin of life without the introduction from outside the system, some sort of biochemical expertise or know-how.
		You know, you can't have an infinite regression back in time of aliens flying around the universe, sprinkling planets, because you still have to get to the point where you explain where was the first life in the universe.
		and the first life in the universe had to have had the input of information from outside the system in order to get...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, there had to be a god somewhere.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, there has to be an extra-dimensional being beyond the aquarium that you and I live in who imputed information, biochemical expertise or know-how onto matter and coded it with the information that we see because chance is absolutely insufficient to explain the origin of not only the molecules art, but the software that is carried by the molecules.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm with you all the way here, but look, technology sufficiently advanced to make us go, wow, is indistinguishable from magic, right?
		Yes.
		So it could be a being so far advanced that for us to sit here and discuss him, and we're doing this abstractly now, we could call him a god or we could call him an extraterrestrial.
		Sure.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		That's labeling, and you're right.
		But the main point is that he's transcendent over the creation as we know it.
		In other words, it's an outside, coming in from the outside kind of thing.
		That's basically entropy laws.
		Your information equations really demand that.
		So that's what I think we're all in agreement on that.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		You know, Art, I think it comes down to this.
		Scientists, most scientists would indeed agree that the space-time domain, because of the laws of entropy and because of the expansion of the universe, is finite.
		Now, if we give that the universe began at a finite point in time, it puts us in a position to speculate about the minimum resume or the minimum attributes of a being who might claim to be the creator of this universe.
		First of all, since the universe is finite, if we give that, we would have to expect that this being would be a being who's independent of the universe, just like I would be independent of, say, an aquarium that I might build.
		Secondly, that creator, from our perspective, since if the universe is an effect, the law of cause and effect says that an effect is always less than the cause, such a creator would, from our perspective, then be all-powerful or all-omniscient.
		Third, if the creator had the knowledge to make a baby out of dirt, which is what babies are made out of, dirt ultimately, he would be, from our perspective, omniscient.
		And finally, once he made the universe, he would have to be able to not only exist independent of the universe, be able to act within our space-time domain, and that's the attribute of transcendence.
		In effect, if I create an aquarium, I can be outside the aquarium, but I can put my hand inside the aquarium and tinker with the aquarium on the inside.
		I exist simultaneously inside and outside the aquarium.
		So those are the minimum attributes of any being, Art, that would claim to be the creator of this universe, and the Bible describes God exactly that way.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		It even goes one step further, Art, and that is that we're beneficiaries of Einstein's insight that time is a physical property.
		Most of us take time for granted.
		We tend to presume, without thinking about it, that time is linear and that it's absolute.
		But the great discovery of our modern era is that time itself is a physical property, that time varies with mass, acceleration, and gravity.
		Now, the point is, is that this transcendent being, if he has the technology to create us, he obviously has the technology to get a message to us.
		The trick is, how does he authenticate his message?
		How does he let us know that the message is really from him and not some kind of contrivance?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let us talk for a second about time.
		Let's not leave that just yet.
		Very interesting.
		When you have no objects or one object, you have no time.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		If it has mass, you do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because you have no reference.
		You would need two objects.
		Something to measure.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		So you're talking about relative time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		If you have an atomic clock, for example, it operates at a certain speed.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		If you raise that atomic clock one meter above the surface of the Earth, it speeds up by one part in 10 to the 16th.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		If you read it 100 meters, it speeds up one part in 10 to the 14th.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		The point is, time itself varies by changes of mass, acceleration, or gravity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what I guess I'm getting at is at the instant of creation, and we can argue about how that occurred, but at that instant, time began.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Right.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		I'm often asked the question, Mark, how old do you believe the universe is?
		And with my tongue in my cheek, I say, which part?
		If you take two clocks that are created out in a microgravity environment, you put one clock on planet Earth and the other clock you put it next to the event horizon of a black hole, those two clocks are spinning dramatically out of sync.
		One clock will be going tick, tick, tick, while the other one is whizzing millions of times faster.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		So the point is this.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Within our space-time domain, you don't have an absolute fixed reference point whereby you say, this is the fixed point whereby we measure the age of the universe.
		In order to know how old the universe is, you'd have to be a being who's not confined to space and time, but the independent of space and time.
		And that is indeed one of, as I mentioned, the minimum attributes of God is independence of space and time.
		And God chose not to tell us age factors about the age of the universe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what about mainstream science, which looks at redshift and looks at, look back time to 12 billion years or so out there?
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Like I said, you could have possibly, because of the effect of gravity, you could possibly have one part of the universe that is very, very old because of gravity effects there, and another part of the universe that is young because of local gravity effects that affect the time.
		As Chuck said, time speeds up when you get into lower gravity areas.
		And so the point is this, is there is no absolute fixed reference point by which you date the universe.
		And so it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Except in our linear measurement time world.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		We measure time here because we're confined to our particular domain of the cosmos.
		We have a gravitational field that gives us the sense of time that we have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you say these beings are interdimensional because of apparent evidence that they can materialize, dematerialize, morph, travel at speeds impossible for physical craft, 25,000 miles an hour and so forth through the atmosphere, that kind of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that correct?
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		That is correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, gentlemen, hold on.
		We're at the bottom of the hour, and we'll pick up on that when we get back.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 11th, 1998.
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		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight's program originally aired May 11th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chuck Mitzler and Mark Eastman are here, Dr. Mark Eastman, actually.
		I've been asked to have them on for a long time, so here they are.
		They're Christians, but they're ufologists.
		Very, very interesting.
		We'll get back to them in a moment.
unidentified		We'll get back to them in a moment.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of May 11, 1998, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art Bell, Somewhere in Time Well, all right, I think all of us, more than anything else, wonder from whence we came.
		How did we get here?
		Who are we?
		Why are we here?
		Why are we supposed to go through this normal lifespan and go through what we call life this suffering on planet Earth?
		To what end?
		Is there an end?
		Yes.
		Is there something after the end?
		I don't know.
		Here once again, Chuck Misler and Dr. Mark Eastman.
		Gentlemen, welcome back.
		We agreed from your own, I'm reading from your own material now, interdimensional as evidenced by their ability to materialize, dematerialize, morph, and travel at speeds impossible for mere physical craft.
		Their occupants display the same interdimensional, some would say supernatural abilities that we ascribe to angels or agents of the devil or whatever.
		Yes?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think that's fair.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		I think the other dimension to all of this, to discussion, you know, you asked earlier about disinformation, you know, thinking in terms of just the pragmatics of researching this area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		It might be helpful to stand back for a moment.
		When Mark and I first undertook this project, one of the original title was going to be called Cosmic Deception, because we became convinced in our researches that there is a giant delusion coming upon the planet Earth.
		And, you know, we talk about disinformation in the sense of agents and people for whatever reasons, whatever motivations, trying to confuse the whole UFO area.
		The part of the interesting thing is that the researchers of all kinds seem to have come to the same conclusion in terms of the agenda of the beings themselves.
		Jacques Belay came to that conclusion.
		J. Alan Hynek I believe did, in the sense that these things pose as things that they're not, if you follow what I'm trying to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Doctor, do you believe abductions are real?
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		I believe that abductions are, that the people that are experiencing this phenomenon believe they are real.
		That wasn't the question.
		I'm not 100% convinced either way.
		I've had an awful lot of people that have presented evidence to me to try to sway me one way or another.
		These beings, these interdimensional beings, people like Jacques Velet and John Mack and J. Allen Hynek have pointed out that these beings have the kind of power that we ascribe to omnipotent, in effect, angel, angelic beings.
		And so they have the capability of certainly abducting someone.
		And they certainly also have the capability of projecting a false reality that would make someone believe that they were abducted.
		And as we know, there are many people that claim abduction experiences, and yet their spouses say they were there the whole night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But doesn't the whole concept, your concept of DNA deterioration work pretty well with the concept of abduction?
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Well, we, yes.
		In fact, we talk about that extensively, and Chuck has made some startling discoveries in the book of Genesis, chapter 6, that gave us some disturbing, very disturbing insights on what may be going on.
		We may be seeing the return of the days of Noah, where interdimensional beings in the days of Noah tweaked with the DNA of mankind and produced hybrid beings then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but at that time, is it not written that it was done in the physical?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, that what we then called angels interacted on a physical level with earth women.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Certainly so.
		And I think, Art, you're right on track.
		I think that's one of the reasons so many people, Christians, have difficulties with Genesis 6 and subsequent passages.
		I think the abduction phenomenon, as seems to be well documented by people like John Mack, we might beg the question of exactly what does the abduction really involve physically?
		Is it just some kind of impression?
		Is it a pseudo-reality of some kind?
		Those are other issues.
		But there have been abductions that have left physical lesion.
		And I encountered one of these since we published the book.
		And I want to speak delicately here because I have advised the parties involved to keep their experience quiet for their own personal sakes.
		A woman who had a UFO encounter some 28 years ago and didn't realize really what was going on.
		It was just an incident.
		And I won't go through the whole medical history, but it turns out in recent years she had a physical because of some bone cancer in her foot.
		But in doing the CAT scans and the rest at one of the Promote University clinics, they asked her when she had her bone biopsies.
		It turns out that in her hip there are two, evidence of two bone biopsies, and she has no recollection of that when she indicated she didn't know what they're talking about.
		She lost credibility with the examiners because you can't have a procedure like that and not know it.
		Turns out, to make a long story short, by piecing all the evidence together, that apparently was a byproduct of this encounter she had so many, many years ago.
		Her husband and the woman were quite troubled for a number of other reasons, and I met with their pastor, and I advised her for lots of reasons, now that it's disclosed between her and her husband and the pastor, to keep it private, because if that gets out, their lives will be ruined by journalists and people trying to publish in this area, that for their own personal well-being, to just keep it quiet.
		But the point is, because of those kinds of experiences, I probably have a stronger view about the abductions than Dr. Eastman has.
		But I think that something is going on.
		Perhaps many of the encounters, and I think that's what John Mack is dealing with, are very real to the people involved, and they've been profiled.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but this goes back to my original theory extended from the good doctors, and that was that if our DNA is deteriorating, then somebody, somebody, somebody is, may well have, in effect, seeded us here and made an early, albeit somewhat clumsy attempt to strengthen their own DNA by actually physically mixing with us.
		When that didn't work out so well, they, or God, as you will, flooded the planet and got rid of the stakes and just barely got started all over again.
		I mean, the whole thing kind of makes sense.
		And if you look at present-day abductions, again, they seem oriented toward genetics and toward reproduction.
		It seems like a more sophisticated attempt at what once was Neville.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think, see, all of this is really tiptoeing around the record that we have.
		In other words, part of our dynamic is the recognition that we're in possession of a message from that Creator, and you can prove it.
		In the sense that we have 66 books that we call the Bible that we now have discovered is an integrated message on the one hand, and the second point is that you can prove its origin had to be outside the time dimension, the dimensionality of time.
		And that lays out both the history, but also gives us a clue as to what's really going on and where are the pawns or prizes, however you want to look at it, of a cosmic conflict.
		And that's also the interesting conclusion, in effect, of guys like David Jacobs in his way with his recent publication, Fall Threat.
		That's John Mack's conclusion.
		The thing that they're missing, in my mind, is the portrayal that there is clearly a cosmic conflict going on behind the dimensionalities that we're familiar with.
		Now, the particle physicists have told us that we're at least 10 dimensions.
		We're familiar and experienced four of them directly.
		But this interdimensional idea starts, you know, this whole proof that occurred in about 1982, 83 in the University of Paris, that particles, below the atomic level, particles have no longer a locality.
		They're non-local.
		But somehow there is a reality, a real reality, behind the physical dimensions that we experience.
		And I think part of what the Bible portrays, and partly what we're experiencing with the UFO phenomenon, is that there seems to be some kind of being that is able to be interdimensional.
		Now, the disturbing aspect of these so-called aliens, or whatever you want to label them, is that they indulge in deceit.
		They pretend to be from other planets, whatever, and they carry messages of various kinds.
		And as you start pulling that together, you realize, and that's what I think Jacobs and some of the secular researchers have also come to the conclusion, that they indulge in deception.
		And that should alarm us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It should indeed alarm us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, those that you admit may well be our creators.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't admit that they are our creators.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could be.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Conception is a possibility, but I think Mark's on track.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		We go back a step, and we have a common creator, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A common creator.
		But that could be back many dimensions.
		I mean, if we're going to talk about separate dimensions, then what we think of as our creator could be the creator of those who created us or five generations or dimensions out.
		Are you all following me?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		I'm following the logical construction, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		I think one of the pillars upon which our book is built is an area of expertise that Chuck Missler has deals with the book of Genesis, chapter 6.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		And I'd like to hear, Chuck, for the benefit of your audience that has not had anybody really develop Genesis 6 from a Christian perspective, sort of give the overview of that and why it's relevant to UFOs and indeed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, Chuck.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's interesting, of course, in Genesis 6, it really lays down the background for the flood of Noah.
		And this is relevant to Christians because Jesus made the remark that, in terms of his second coming, as we might call it, his return, that it will be as the days of Noah.
		And the problem with that remark that he makes in Matthew 24 and elsewhere is that most of us have not done our homework as to what led up to the flood of Noah.
		And when you study Genesis 6 carefully and just look at what the text actually says, it's very disturbing because it indicates that as men began to multiply on the face of the earth, that there were, the term in the Hebrew, the original text, is bani ha-helohim.
		It's a term that's translated in our Bibles as the sons of God.
		But it's a technical term that is consistently used throughout the Old Testament to speak of angels.
		And these angels, obviously fallen angels, came down and apparently, somehow, and it's not explicitly laid out how, but they took wives of human women and had offspring.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		And we need to understand, discern the difference, I believe, between the hybrids, which are called in the Hebrew the Nephilim or fallen ones.
		It comes from a, it's a plural noun from a verb nephal, meaning the fallen ones.
		It's translated giants in our English Bible for some strange reasons, and they happen to be giants, but that's not the point.
		The point is that they were a hybrid.
		And these hybrids, apparently, were a plot to contaminate the human genome.
		And that was part of God's plan was to keep that pure because he had a destiny that the Bible is really all about.
		That's the real climax of the whole biblical narrative.
		But the point is, when you read about Noah in verse 9 of Genesis 6, it makes one of the distinctives about Noah was that his genealogy was not contaminated.
		And so the whole flood, you know, you stop and think about it, it's a pretty weird, extreme move to wipe out all but nine people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, not necessarily on a cosmic scale.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, if you do something in a Petri dish that turns out all wrong, what do you do?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Exactly right.
		Well, you can look at it that way.
		And there's nine people because he removed one of them prior to the flood, namely Enoch.
		And then eight people, Noah and his three sons and their four wives, are preserved through this weird thing called an ark and all that.
		And on it goes.
		Now the point is, the other little incident in Genesis 6, it says that these things occurred before the flood and also after that.
		And it's interesting, what I'm obviously talking about is the classical view that was held by the Jewish scholars for centuries.
		It's also the view that was originally held by the very early church.
		They took that, this is all very, very straightforward.
		It was a very uncomfortable position in about the third century, fourth century onward.
		And so they contrived a view which is called by most people the Sethite view.
		Well, what this really means is that there were two lines, the lines of Seth and the lines of Cain, and that they were not supposed to intermarry, but they did intermarry, and that was the abuse or the inappropriate behavior.
		Well, it turns out the whole line of Seth view, which is commonly taught throughout much of the Christian community, is a way around this.
		But what's interesting, it has absolutely no scriptural support.
		It also is built on a half a dozen conjectures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, may I ask a question?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		According to the Bible, Adam knew, in quotes, his wife Eve, and conceived and then bore Cain, right?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Cain and Abel and lot of the woman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then after his brother Abel, after Abel's death, Cain was banished to Nod, where he knew, again in quotes, his wife, and begot Enoch.
		Where did Cain's wife come from?
		It didn't say he knew his sister.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		I know, but obviously he did, because Adam and Eve had many children.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Many, many children.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Many, many children.
		The presumption that that was all they had, the narrative, of course, is obviously a very summary narrative.
		The presumption that they didn't have any other children is an assumption.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		The biblical prohibition against marrying your sister was something which occurred long after the flood, long after the fall of Adam and Eve.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Adam and Eve, remember we talked about this in the first hour, if we assume that they were made by God, we can assume that they would have been genetically pure.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		And therefore, there were no informational errors that could have cropped up in the marriage of a sister issue.
		There would have been no mutants arising.
		It wasn't until hundreds and hundreds of years afterwards, once the DNA molecule began to decay sufficiently, that diseases began to accumulate.
		And then in the book of Leviticus, God prohibited the marrying of sisters.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Even Abraham may have married his half-sister.
		Sarah was his half-sister.
		So this issue, where did Cain get his wife, is a common topic, but the simple answer is pretty straightforward.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the two of you then believe that we are being deceived.
		That there is a grand deception by those who are manipulating us.
		Is that correct?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		By these aliens, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the purpose of that deception?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Well, that gets into a whole...
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		I think the fundamental purpose of that deception is to thwart the plan of God But I think the fact that these beings appear to present themselves as something they're not, that they're from Pleiades or wherever, is all a facade.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but according to everything you have said, I don't see how you can be sure these beings are not, in fact, our creators.
		In other words, you make an argument up to a certain point, and then you suggest they are deceivers.
		But is it not equally possible they are our creators?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Well, we talked a little bit in Genesis 6 that in effect you had interdimensional beings that came down and corrupted the human gene pool by intermingling with humanity.
		The offspring, these Nephilim, the Bible says, were the men of renown.
		They were tremendously powerful, these hybrid beings, and God scrubbed the planet Earth because of this, what was really a thwarting of the genetic planet God had.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Well, another issue here.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		One of the interesting things about the Genesis 6 portrayal is that we find the same portrayal buried in virtually every ancient culture on the planet Earth, whether the Sumerians, the Babylonians, the Egyptians, the ancient Greeks, even the American Indians, all have folklore that somehow memorialize some kind of celestial beings that come down and interbreed with humans, creating a hybrid group.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Supernatural beings.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		I mean, the beings are usually described as a result in these legends that the beings were powerful, supernatural, and in some cases, giants.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Magic to us, gentlemen.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, indeed.
		Indeed.
		But I think one of the things as we get into this, is having talked to a lot of people about this, let's not confuse the beings that came down, whatever they were, and the hybrids that derived from them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm with you.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Okay, because that'll cause confusion downstream.
		But the point is, something did happen back there.
		Now, in reconciling our view, we can't get away from the fact that we also believe we've discovered That the Bible record has some very unique properties that convince us that it's really the reliable record of what's going on.
		And it's part of our perception, in fact, the whole project of getting into this research area is because Jesus Christ made some interesting four disciples came to him for a confidential briefing on his second coming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gentlemen, on that note, we're at the top of the hour, so relax.
		When we come back, we'll get into the phones, and that should be really, really interesting.
		I'm Art Bell, Chuck Missler, and Mark Eastman.
		Dr. Mark Eastman are my guests.
		Stay right where you are.
unidentified		You're with Steve Mark Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 11, 1998.
		The heart is on fire.
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		Listen to the wind blow, watch the sunrise Run in the shadows, damn your love, damn your lies And if you don't love me now
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight's an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 11th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guests are Chuck Missler and Dr. Mark Eastman.
		This is going to be your opportunity with him, and I know you want it because the lines are absolutely raging.
		And maybe that's...
unidentified		The End Now we take you back to the night of May 11, 1998, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back now to my guests.
		Gentlemen, welcome back.
		I have a question for you.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If aliens are angels or dimensional travelers, well, let me put it to you this way, I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If we were to come up with the body of a dead alien, how would you rationalize that?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, I'd distinguish between the fallen angels kind of thing and the hybrids that apparently they're attempting to deal with.
		I think the Nephilim of the Bible obviously died.
		They drowned in the flood.
		There are some conjectures that the demons of the New Testament are the disembodied spirits of those very Nephilim, because there seems to be a distinction between angels and demons in the Bible that even the scholars argue about.
		This is certainly in the area of conjectures.
		but a body, be it an alien or whatever, is a body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if we were to come up with a body that obviously was not human, your take on it would be that we have...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would not be surprised.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		I haven't seen any, and I haven't seen any records that I take seriously, but if one surfaced, I wouldn't be surprised.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		We know from the Bible that angels are immortal beings, and as Chuck said, the Nephilim, which was a corruption of the angels and humans combined, were indeed mortal beings.
		They were killed in the flood.
		Goliath was killed by David.
		And so I think that what we're dealing with here is if we did find a body, it would most likely be a hybrid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not entirely mortal, though.
		Or a human.
		They were a combination.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they are a hybrid, right?
		You know how with the abduction scenario, a lot of the people that, for example, David Jacobs in his book Secret Life wrote about women who claim that they've seen the fruit of the unions.
		They state that the hybrids are very frail, sickly, in some cases, very frail-looking individuals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, yes.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		That would be expected with this whole Nephilim thing, because angels being immortal beings, the Bible says that God inhabits eternity.
		Presumably, that's the place where angels dwell as well.
		They would not be subject to the decaying effect of the second law of thermodynamics, which is a time-bound concept.
		And so we would see angelic, in effect, DNA not decaying with the advance in our time domain, but ours has decayed.
		So the mixture in the 20th century is not like it was back in the days of Noah.
		And so the beings we would expect genetically would be more frail.
		And that's what we see in some of these beings, the grays, especially.
		So I think we'd be most likely dealing with a hybrid entity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then, are they helping us or are we helping them?
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		I believe they're damaging us.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		I think that their agenda is, who knows?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think in a sense that we're helping them in the sense that we apparently are pawns of experiments as they're trying to unravel their problem dealing with a degraded breathing stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Chuck Missler and Dr. Mark Eastman.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
unidentified		Oh, hi, how are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, where are you?
unidentified		I'm in California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		California, okay.
unidentified		First, I'd like to tell you that I love your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		And I listen to it every night again.
		All right.
		Anyways, the question I have is, why would the Bible written thousands of years ago be associated with this sort of New Age topic of aliens or interdimensional beings?
		I mean, to me, these subjects aren't related.
		I mean, it's kind of far-fetched.
		Every time you open your mind, you have to close the door.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, it's a reasonable question, actually.
		There obviously is very much a fundamentalist.
		She's saying, in essence, look, come on, God is God.
		The Bible is the Bible.
		It is the Word.
		How are you guys mixing this up with aliens?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's what the Bible talks about in Genesis 6 and also what Jesus warned us of.
		In fact, in warning us about them, he said he emphasized the role of deception.
		He both opens and closes his remarks to be careful that you're not deceived.
		And the whole UFO thing is very real, but it's also very much involved in attempting to see us.
		The Bible says a great deal.
		It anticipates every major scientific discovery we've made.
		The whole point, the whole relevance of the Bible is its ability to describe history in advance before it happens.
		And so it shouldn't surprise us that our various scenarios today, geopolitical as well as scientific, are very much the subject of the biblical focus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, are the two of you aware of the Michael Droznanan effort?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Yes, very much so.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		In fact, I've got a manuscript and publication should be out this summer called Cosmic Codes, Hidden Messages from the Edge of Eternity, which is an attempt to deal with the confusion that Drosnan book has created.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, is Drosnanen right or wrong?
		Is it there or isn't it?
		I mean, it's mathematical or it's not.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are people who are in favor of the codes, and there are people who don't believe the codes.
		Both of them attack his book, because unfortunately, it's quite exploitive.
		His translations are somewhat contrived.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The mathematics, the repetitiveness, of science is nothing but the ability to repeat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he does seem to show.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I believe the codes are real, but not quite the way he presents them.
		And they're far more codes than the ones he deals with.
		He happens to deal with what's called equidistant letter sequences.
		Yes, but there's also microcodes and also macrocodes that are even actually much more dramatic.
		And that's what we'll be dealing with in a book that we hope will be out in about July.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Every bit as much mathematically sustainable?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Indeed.
		Everybody that writes in this area doesn't have any crypto background, and that's really what it's all about.
		So, yes, it's very mathematical, and it's rather startling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An obvious question is, why would God put codes hard-to-discern codes in the Bible?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		To authenticate its source, because some of the codes that are there totally defy the ability of human engineering.
		In other words, they're in effect a source authentication technique.
		They don't convey truth that's not already there.
		That's not the point.
		The point is, though, it does demonstrate its origin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kind of like a key, if you will.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A digital key, for example.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Yes, exactly.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		You're using precisely the right term.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First time caller line, you are on the air with Chuck Missler and Dr. Mark Eastman.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Lakewood, Colorado.
unidentified		My name is Bob.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Bob.
unidentified		It's my first time.
unidentified		I'm a bit nervous here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just relax.
unidentified		I listen to you often.
unidentified		I'm a Christian, so you know my bias up front, but get on with this anyway.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Well, praise God, Bob.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Glad to have you call.
unidentified		Is it possible that the watchers who were involved in the birthing of this group of Nephilim, is it possible that in this two-way street interaction that's potentially gone on here for all of time since the fall of man,
		is it possible that they are also monitoring us on an ongoing basis, in a sense, in kind of a strange way, because they were created ministering spirits, if indeed they were angelic beings.
		Maybe this is an aberration of what they were doing originally.
		And also, do you think they might be monitoring us to try and get another tag on or using us as kind of an almost a clock, a DNA clock, to try and ascertain just how close we are to that final time?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		That's a good point, Bob.
		We do know that all the angels apparently watch us with great fascination.
		Peter makes a reference that they, speaking of even God's program, that they find out what God is doing by watching his actions through us.
		It's some very interesting allusions in the epistles.
		Also, you may recall in the demoniac at Gadera, they knew that they have an ultimate destiny.
		They challenged, they recognize who Jesus is and say, we come to Tormus before the time.
		So clearly they know the scenario in general, and clearly they are ambiguous as to where we are on that scenario.
		So your question and its implied speculations, I think, are right on target.
		the fact that they may be beyond an opportunity to choose their own destiny, but they're aware of the destiny they have.
		And if the good angels, so to speak, are monitoring us with such interest as Peter alludes to, then it wouldn't surprise me at all that these other creatures, whatever they are, are somewhat in the same mode in terms of...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about the cattle mutilations?
		Any idea where they might fit in?
		In other words, again, we have a real situation with cattle in this country, and again, the focus would seem to be on the reproductive organs.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it seems, and again, I have no insight that any people that have done any reading in this area would have, namely that they are prevalent, they're serious enough that ranchers are upset about them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, did you know that our science now has the ability to take a human fetus and implant it in a cow and bring it to term?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		I didn't know that.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, these types of genetic experiments have been going on for some time.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure that anybody's produced any offspring by that method, but there have been xenographs where they'll take those type of genetic experimentations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if our conclusions about the genetic tampering and experimentation are correct, then that would be, even with the science we know today, a logical progression for these dimensional beings.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		One of the disturbing things about Genesis 6 is that when you look at the activities of Genesis 6, the intermingling, the messing up of the human genome, there's all of these stories in mythology about hybrid entities in the animal kingdom as well.
		And Chuck and I have pondered, you know, wondering, gee, could the activities that occurred back in those days really have been real rather than mythological?
		And could those same activities be happening today?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		All right.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Chuck Missler and Dr. Mark Eastman.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, everyone.
		This is Mark.
		I'm listening to WRBZ 850 The Buzz in Raleigh, North Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Gentlemen, I'd be interested in your thoughts on Enoch.
		I find him to be a fascinating individual.
		Do you see him taking any part or having maybe his soul somehow put into this day?
		He was the only person who hasn't died yet.
		If you go back 125 years, everybody else has died except for Enoch.
		So do you see God somehow in this world in this last day and having any part?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, both Enoch and Elijah apparently did not go through death.
		They're singled out with some very distinctives.
		But I think you're right.
		Enoch is one of the most intriguing characters in the Bible because he gives the first prophecy.
		He uttered a prophecy of the second coming of Christ even before the flood of Noah.
		And he obviously had this strange experience with Methuselah because he knew that his son would be, as long as he was alive, the flood would be withheld.
		And many people do suspect, I don't happen to agree, but many people do suspect that he might be one of the two witnesses in Revelation 11.
		I'm among those that hold that the Revelation 11 thing is Elijah and Moses for some subtle reasons, but there are good scholars that suspect it might be Enoch and Elijah.
		He's a very interesting character.
		But I don't know how else further, if he is one of the two witnesses, then he does have, interestingly enough, a climactic destiny in the scenario as it reaches its climax.
unidentified		I actually came up with a scenario.
		God obviously thought a lot of Enoch.
		Now to turn Enoch against God would be a big trophy, as you were talking about earlier, for Satan.
		Now, this is just a scenario, but what if Enoch himself would have been chosen to be the Antichrist and Satan has tried to deceive him to turn him against God?
		He would obviously have a lot of the qualities of Enoch.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what the basis for that view would be because even if he does fulfill the destiny some people ascribe to him, it's not in that mode.
		Satan's man has 33 titles in the Old Testament, 13 in the New.
		We know a great deal about them, and none of them fit Enoch.
		There is good reason to believe that this character that has such a climactic role in the end may be a Nephilim.
unidentified		Would this character not have any choice then?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Beg your pardon?
unidentified		Would he have a choice to?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		I think he probably had a choice, but he had a choice, but he made the wrong one.
unidentified		Oh, thanks, gentlemen.
		You're on the right track.
		I enjoy the program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for the call, sir, and take care.
		Let's go here, I guess.
		That would be the West of the Rockies line.
		You're on there with Chuck Nissler and Mark Eastman.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Roger KJJR of McAllispell, Montana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Roger.
unidentified		As I've been listening, I've had a lot of different things come to mind.
unidentified		You just mentioned the cattle mutilations, and I know Great Falls is a big area for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure is.
unidentified		And I was thinking about the life is in the blood.
unidentified		And when you're talking about the Nephilim and so forth and the genetic code, and so all that ties together, I'd say.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Roger, I think you're right.
		I think most people who studied them and also studied the UFOs tend to link them together.
		There are some ranchers that feel that the government's screwing around or something, but I think there's a lot of evidence.
		There's a lot of blood gone.
		And they're dropped from great heights.
		Some of them have their backboats.
		There's a number of aspects that seem to characterize the cattle mutilations that certainly are suggestive of some kind of high-technology hanky-fanky.
unidentified		Yeah, no, that wasn't my question, by the way.
unidentified		I'd heard this theory about seven, eight years ago by a guy named John Loffler, who I know you're familiar with.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		John Leffler's on my staff.
unidentified		He's a great guy.
		I've been reading your books for about five years.
		I have the creator of between time and space here.
		I'm using it for creation science class.
		Oh, great.
		Thank you.
		Well, actually, I'm sorry to say the text is from Walt Brown Hydroplate.
		I used you for about the first three weeks, and I plugged your book.
		I told everybody to read everything they can about you guys, and I've given them a lot of information because I think you're pretty much.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I appreciate that.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		But my question originally was from Loeffler.
unidentified		He had mentioned years ago that all the plants that they find at all the crop circles have been chemically altered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And that hasn't been brought up tonight.
		All right, well, let us see it happening.
		I'd just like you to explain that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let us bring it up.
		Indeed, it is true that Dr. Levengood has been carefully testing and declaring either as fake or legitimate crop circles based on cellular changes that he observes and documents in crop circles.
		Anybody want to take a shot at crop circles here?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Well, only the obvious, I think, that they're again, they're generally without hard proof, but they're generally associated somehow with the UFO phenomenon because they seem to co-occur statistically.
		But secondly, the other thing about them that I think is very provocative is that they seem to be orchestrated.
		That is, they started relatively simply, and as the years have gone by, they continue in frequency, in their geographic dispersion, and also in the complexity of the designs.
		As you stand back from the whole crop circle thing, you get the feeling that whatever is causing them is sort of like playing games.
		It's as if they're orchestrated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, of the legitimate crop circles, they do seem to be becoming more complex.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we can look at the last decade and arguably they're definitely becoming more complex.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		And sort of wonder why.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		I haven't seen anyone that has come up with any kind of motivation or purpose or teleology to the thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Chuck Missler and Dr. Mark Eastman.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, how are you doing?
		My name's Martin.
		I'm in Wasilla, Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hey, I'm well in line with all of this stuff.
		I've kind of followed along these lines.
		Art, you seem to have a problem with the when you go, geez, I'm getting excited.
		I'm terribly sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's quite all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just relax and say what you want to say.
unidentified		Right.
		You know, it says in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
		It doesn't say the universe.
		It's from the perspective of the earth.
		And then it says that the earth became without form and void.
		And darkness had come to pass upon the face of the earth.
		In that there was a fall.
		And I believe that this fall was the inundation which ceased the end of the dinosaurs and the age reptilian.
		And then was the recreation of the earth at which time our Lord created this age in which we live in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let us ask about the dinosaurs.
		That's a really good question.
		Did God create the dinosaurs, Chuck Martin?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Of course, I think so.
		I think that what Martin is talking about is what some people call the gap theory, the gap between verse 1 and verse 2 of Genesis.
		And that may or may not be there, but in any case, even if it is, I don't attribute that to the dinosaurs.
unidentified		The dinosaurs, you know, I also believe that it was an archetypical description of creation, and that the creation process which the Elohim began, which are the deific beings which are spoken of before the word Jehovah is used in the word of God, these individuals began the recreation of the earth from the grip of the ice age.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's an interesting view.
		It happens to be in contrast to the biblical presentation.
		But you'll discover dinosaurs are mentioned in the book of Job, in Job 40 and 41, the Behemoth and the Leviathan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, why were they wiped out?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Well, that could be for any lot of reasons.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Climactic changes, there's all kinds of conjectures that could have been wiped out in part by the flood, for that matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, gentlemen, hold on.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		I was just wondering if they had done something or mated with somebody and deserved it.
		Or they just caught a big rock.
		And that brings up another question, too, that Deep Impact.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 11, 1998.
		The Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		The Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 11th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chuck Misler and Dr. Mark Eastman are my guests, and we're discussing...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got an awfully good question about the dinosaurs and us.
unidentified		Thank you.
unidentified		you Now we take you back to the night of May 11, 1998, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Art Bell, Somewhere in Time All right, back to my guests now, Chuck Missler and Dr. Mark Eastman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gentlemen, the dinosaurs, then, were God's creation.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Yes?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right?
		Sure.
		They were, it is generally believed, made extinct by what's called the KT event, a large object that impacted our planet.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		A conjecture, yeah.
		Conjecture?
		I say it's a conjecture, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it conjecture you disagree with?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Well, we know that the dinosaurs coexisted with man.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		They found evidence of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		I believe it.
		Where is it?
		Mark in Texas, I think?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm sorry.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		In Glen Rose, Texas, you find dinosaur footprints and human footprints side by side that have been confirmed by geologists.
		Plus, we have art all over planet Earth.
		All of the Earth's continents have stories, legends, about the coexistence of gigantic reptilian creatures with man.
		And then, as Chuck mentioned in the Bible, we see the behemoth and the Leviathan, clearly not anything that is alive today, dinosaur-like creatures that coexisted with Job.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, as a matter of curiosity, if the dinosaurs were made extinct by the KT event or by an eruption on the sun or whatever else you might imagine did it, how did we survive?
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Well, Art, I think that mammals and dinosaurs, as far as we can tell, have some different major different physiological effects.
		It's been shown that pterodactyls could not have flown in the current environment that we have.
		You need at least two atmospheres of pressure for a pterodactyl to fly.
		And so the implication is that the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere at that time was much greater.
		And therefore, the post-flood atmosphere was dramatically different and probably could not support the life of these giant creatures.
		That's a conjecture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, all the world scientists are presently worried about what a new movie out called Deep Impact.
		Extinction-level event, I think they call it.
		If a gigantic five-mile-wide rock were to slam into Earth, it is eminently possible that all life as we know it would end.
		Now, how would that fit into the master plan that the Christians see?
		I mean, it would be sort of a stopper right there, wouldn't it?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		No, there's lots of stoppers.
		There's lots of ways to assume that the biblically described scenario might not happen, except I think it will.
		And I think there will.
		In fact, it's interesting, the book of Revelation does talk about hailstones of very, very large rocks, but obviously not like the kind in the movie or the kind of asteroids that some of the scientists are concerned about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we watched some things slam into Jupiter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here not long ago, that would have ended all life on Earth, I guarantee.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Shoemaker-Levy, you bet.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		That was impressive.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Well, that brings up the issue of earth changes that you spoke so much about in your book.
		And indeed, the Bible speaks tremendously about earth changes.
		We see that when Jesus spoke about the times before he would come, that the world would suffer tremendous earthquakes, that there would be pestilence, tremendous earth changes that you have documented, that we document.
unidentified		I'm with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm with you all the way.
		All the way there.
		I'm with you all the way there.
		But the problem I see is if the Bible is accurate prophecy, what we've gone through and what we are yet to go through, then there cannot be a big rock that comes along and ends it all, or the prophecy is wrong.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but again, that's speculation that such an event.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		But the logic is sound.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		You're absolutely right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, let's go back to the phones.
		West of the Rockies, you are on the air with Chuck Missler and Dr. Mark Eastman.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, I'm Jason.
unidentified		I'm out of Globe, Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		My question is, what do the guests believe is in the alien mind?
unidentified		Not only what is their motive, but do they think of themselves as being soldiers of Satan?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Jason, that's a good question because a part we obviously only know what we think we know is from these encounters.
		They do seem to try to convey messages, and the messages are almost universally anti-biblical.
		Most of the messages, either openly or subtly, attempt to undermine the biblical view.
		Now, the question is, are they doing this, you know, are they just minions of some higher malevolent power?
		Or one of the questions that's implied by your, one of the aspects that's implied by your question is, are they free agents or are they really somehow part of a broader system?
		And no one really knows because we have rather scanty and highly garbled information about them through all these encounters.
		But we do, it's interesting that even the secular scientists, and I'll use Jacques Boulet and J. Alan Hynek as perhaps the top examples, have come to the conclusion that they indulge in deceit.
		And one of the things, one of the first questions that we wrestle with, and there's a lot of controversy about, is are they good guys and bad guys?
		Are there some that are good and some that are bad?
		You know, there's a lot of people that tend to look to them as the solution for all our world problems.
		And tragically, there's little substantial evidence of that.
		Quite the contrary.
		We get the impression that they pose as benefactors, but in fact, carry messages of deceit.
		So that's one of the reasons those of us that have a biblical view are so quick to tag them or recognize them as being malevolent, either overtly or covertly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Chuck Missler and Dr. Mark Eastman.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Mr. Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		This is Bill up in the Twin Cities.
unidentified		Love your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Bill.
unidentified		Listen to you on KSTP AM 1500.
		My question has to do with the age of the universe and evidences that I have been taught.
		I don't know that they are factual, but one of them is that the Earth's rotation seems to be slowing down.
		And scholars have supposedly done the math and said that if you calculate the speed the Earth would have been rotating at the time that evolution says we began, the Earth wouldn't have allowed life to begin, or if it began, it couldn't have survived.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's a number of evidences that the Earth and the universe are young.
		In fact, Henry Morris documents over 80 different scientific methods that seem to indicate that the Earth and the universe are indeed 10,000 years old or less in his book Scientific Creationism.
		And Dr. Kent Hoven, who was on the Art Dell Show a few months ago, I believe, spoke about some of those.
unidentified		Roy, that would lead me to the next one I was going to ask about, is the magnetic field of the earth and it's degrading.
unidentified		Is that what's causing the effect, the negative effect on the human DNA?
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Well, it definitely opens up an increase in exposure to cosmic radiation and that increases the decay rate probably of the DNA molecule.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		We know that for, you know, theoretically that's very true.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Bill, there's even another compounding effect that's highly controversial, but let me just throw it out because it's a factor.
		There is evidence that the speed of light itself is not a constant.
		Classical physicists are all in an uproar over this, but Barry Setterfield in Australia and Trevor Norman and a Canadian scientist by the name of Alan Montgomery over the last decade or so have discovered that there's evidence that the speed of light is not a constant, but rather has been slowing down.
		In fact, they even have got a 99% correlation factor to a cosecant squared curve.
		The point is, is that that has pulled the rug out from under a number of pillars of physics conjectures, not the least of which is the red shift.
		It turns out that William Tift in the University of Arizona has been collecting red shift data for 20 years.
		He's discovered that the red shift is quantized, that the red shift, if it was really a Dopper effect, it would be, you'd find a continuum of values.
		But it turns out it's quantized, which implies that the red shift, it actually, strangely enough, is a corroboration of the idea that the speed of light may be slowing down because of the speed of light's impact on subatomic behavior.
		The net of all of this is that the concept of aging, these billions of years kind of things that we use in astronomy, have a slippery yardstick involved because the speed of light, if it has been changing, totally alters some of our perceptions, especially historically and astronomically.
		And this is a huge controversy and it won't be settled in the near years because there's a lot of research going on, but there is evidence accumulating that the Setterfield-Norman hypothesis may prove to be correct.
		And that changes our perception of the age of the universe.
		It would move it to being much younger.
		It has some other implications, too.
		But you might keep your antenna up on this whole speed of light controversy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Cohler?
unidentified		Okay, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Thank you, Bill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, and take care as we grow woefully short on time here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Chuck Missler and Mark Eastman.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, all right.
		This is Guy in Tucson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Guy.
unidentified		And joining the show, I've only heard about the last hour, but I've noticed the show has an intellectual vent, and I know that your radio show is secular, and so I'm allowing for that.
		But I feel there's something that needs to be said, and your guests can comment on it.
		Concerning the great deception, my sense of that, based on the tone of all the scriptures and just my innate knowing as a Christian, is that the great deception, when it comes, will be intellectually unassailable.
		And we will, as Christians, will have no way to defeat it using creation science arguments or any other sort of intellectual argument.
		You're right.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		You're absolutely right.
		I'm glad you brought that up because that is exactly, that was where we started the show, the whole idea that there's a gigantic deception coming upon the planet Earth in general, and by the way, on the body of Christ in particular.
		And that's why we wrote the book Alien Encounters.
		And the intent of the book is to alert people to that there are pawns of a major deception, and we try to put a biblical root to the whole thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Good enough.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Chuck Winslow and Dr. Mark Eastman.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, Art.
		This is Dave in Grand Junction, Colorado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Dave.
unidentified		I had one question.
		What does the creationist argument say against plate tectonics?
		Plate tectonics being basically the theory of how the Earth expanded.
		I'm sure you guys know about Pangea and how Africa and South America were once together and the sea has gradually, well, the Earth has gradually expanded between them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good point.
unidentified		And we can measure the rate between them.
		We know the starting point.
		We know the ending point.
		We know the rate.
		Turns out it was 155 million years ago.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, if it's linear, and that links to the days of Peleg in the books of Genesis, probably, but that's speculation, too.
		Go ahead, Art.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		In the Bible, in Genesis chapter 10, Art, it talks about in the days of Peleg, the earth was divided.
		We're told prior to that that the earth was gathered all in one place.
		So the notion that the landmass was all together in one place was written about in the Bible 3,500 years ago, and the fact that the landmass was separated was written about in Genesis 10, in the days of Peleg.
		So it's actually a scientific discovery which was written about about 3,400 years before modern scientists discovered.
unidentified		And we agreed it's not a way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But while that may be so, as you pointed out, though, we know the rate of change.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Well, we know it today, but we don't know that it was the same 3,500 to 4,000 years ago.
		We don't know.
		We cannot make those kind of...
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		They're assuming they're linear, you say.
unidentified		We live in a non-linear world, Art.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		We all live in a world where facts are fast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We also live in a world where A equals A. Well, you might throw in something to the mix, like polar reversals and so forth.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Well, I don't know.
		Personally, I have an atheist view of this.
		And I find the whole concept of God as an arbitrary claim, which means that it requires no proof because it has no proof.
		And I find it hard to understand how somebody that lives their life on faith, which means that they require no proof.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's not true.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		That's not just abusive.
unidentified		Is it not true that faith requires no proof?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, quite the contrary.
		I think that faith without proof is nonsense.
		And I think that faith is not really the proof of a God.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		There's tremendous evidence everywhere for the existence of a God.
unidentified		There's proof of immortal beings, then.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Faith is not the evidence, believing in spite of evidence.
		Faith is committing in spite of the consequences.
		And I think the idea that you have faith without evidence is an impetus to stupidity.
		I think the kind of faith we're talking about is one that responds to the evidence in front of us, both in the creation and also in terms of the message that's been put into our laps called the Bible.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		In fact, Jesus encouraged us, Jesus encouraged us to worship God with our minds.
		And the disciples, Thomas, wouldn't believe in the resurrection until he said, I want to see proof.
		I want to see the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where does the proof come from?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chuck, Mark, do you believe in God?
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Prove it.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		You can't prove the existence of God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the caller's point.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Let's consider this.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		But you cannot prove that he doesn't exist either.
unidentified		Well, that's a great argument.
		That's the arbitrary claimed argument.
		You can't prove a negative.
		You can't prove that I can't fly when no one's watching.
		But see, I would argue that when you might want, if it's arbitrary.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		I would argue that when you look at a watch sitting on a beach, you would argue that a watch requires a watchmaker.
		And the point in the Bible that Paul the Apostle made is that when you look around, when you see the evidence of design that far exceeds anything ever made by man, that it testifies that there was a mind behind it.
		And that mind has revealed himself, we believe, in the Bible, foretold many of the things that are happening today, including the fact that interdimensional beings would come and perform a gigantic delusion in the end times.
		And we believe the UFO alien phenomenon at least will play a part of that role.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When this call started, he talked about the plate tectonic movement, the movement of the continents.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		And it's written about in the Bible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed, but where does it suggest there was a quick movement and then a big slowdown?
unidentified		Yeah.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Well, it says in the days of Peleg, meaning apparently during his lifetime, the earth was divided.
unidentified		The Bible is so arbitrary.
unidentified		You can claim about anything it says that you want.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Have you read it?
unidentified		Yes, I've read it.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		From cover to cover.
unidentified		From cover to cover.
unidentified		Quite.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Do you realize that there are dozens of scientific discoveries that we've discovered in modern times that were anticipated by the Bible writers?
unidentified		Let me finish.
		There are mistakes in the Bible.
		Dozens of contradictions.
mark eastman ▲ ● ▼		Not a one.
unidentified		Not one.
		What about man shall not eat all of the insects or any other four-legged creatures?
		I don't know that insects are six-legged creatures.
		Is that from translation?
		If that's from translation, how come it's in every version of the Bible?
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure I'm not sure what verse you're referring to.
unidentified		Well, I'm not sure exactly what the verse is, but it's in there.
		That was one of the ones that stood out.
		Let's consider an immortal being, which means that nothing can hurt it.
		What values could it possibly have?
		Why would it do anything?
		Why does anything alive do anything?
		The reason it does anything is to keep from being dead, to keep existing.
		The reason that I eat is not because I like the food, it's because I want to live.
		The reason that I move, the reason I'm talking to you, the reason I'm able to talk, is because I want to live.
		And an immortal being, something that cannot be harmed, will have no reason to do anything.
		It will become a rock.
		A rock is an immortal being.
		It has no reason to do anything.
		That is what any immortal being will be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Caller?
unidentified		Absolutely nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I appreciate your call.
		We're woefully short on time.
		You should have been here earlier.
unidentified		I tried to get in earlier.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for the call.
		And, gentlemen, you have both been absolutely fascinating.
		And we will have you back and do it again.
chuck missler ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		Thank you.
		Every hospitality.
		It's nice to be part of Excellence in Broadcasting, your guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You both take care.
		Thank you, sir.
		I guess in a loose sort of way, that would be true, wouldn't it?
		We're both in the same company.
		Anyway, Excellence is Excellence.
		All right, folks.
		That's all for tonight.
		Tomorrow night, unless something astronomical occurs, and you can never rule that out, we're going to have open lines.
		And I know you've been looking forward to that, so whatever it is on your mind, get ready, because tomorrow night will be, in all probability, your opportunity.

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