Chuck Missler and Mark Eastman warn of a coming "great deception" tied to UFOs, framing Genesis 6 as evidence of fallen angels—"bani ha-helohim"—interbreeding with humans before the flood, creating hybrid Nephilim. They dismiss random evolution via DNA entropy, argue Earth’s magnetic decay accelerates genetic decay, and question mainstream science’s constant speed-of-light assumption, citing Barry Setterfield’s red shift research. While skeptics like Dave from Colorado challenge biblical contradictions, Eastman counters with design arguments (e.g., "watchmaker" analogy) and end-times prophecies, suggesting interdimensional beings manipulate humanity’s perception to thwart divine plans. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning and welcome to a new week, another week of Coast to Coast AM live talk radio throughout the night time.
From the Hawaiian and Eastern Islands outwest, eastward to the Caribbean, South into South America, north, all the way to the Pole and worldwide on the internet.
Initial results of inspections of older Boeing 737s were not hardening.
This is just what I want to hear on the week I'm going to fly, right?
Of the 192 fuel pump tubes inspected on 96 planes by Monday night, about half, that's half, showed signs of wire abrasion.
Each plane, you see, has two fuel pump tubes.
The FAA on Sunday grounded older models of the Boeing 737 and took a look.
Obviously, they are fearing an explosion like the one that downed TWA Flight 800, and that's what they blame that on, is wire abrasion.
So that's half of the older 737s.
Yikes.
When Israel's Prime Minister comes to Washington this week, he may be bringing yet another offer to revive the stalled stale Mideast peace talks.
Israeli radio and officials say the new proposal would require Israel to withdraw from 9% of the West Bank over a 12-week period, then hold an additional 4% of the area in reserve, allowing the U.S. to determine when it should be handed over.
We'll see.
Labor Secretary Alexis Herman says she's disappointed and baffled by Attorney General Janet Reno's decision to request an independent counsel to investigate her.
Reno requested that prosecutors look into whether Herman sold influence while working as a White House aide.
Herman has been accused of engaging in influence peddling or soliciting more than $250,000 in illegal campaign contributions.
This is why I'm in favor of a total government shake-up.
I mean, this kind of thing is going to go on and on and on.
Every administration that comes into power says they are going to be Mr. Clean.
this is going to be the cleanest administration in u_s_ history uh...
President Clinton Tuesday will unveil a wide-ranging strategy for fighting international crime as the world's biggest industrial nations prepare to work on a plan of cooperation.
Clinton will announce his international crime control strategy at the White House just before he departs on a European trip.
We shall see.
In the category of animals attacking humans, something we keep track of, the latest, is as follows.
Ran across a woman's yard, leapt up onto her porch, and attacked her, knocking her down and biting her vigorously.
She was not seriously injured, and the pig was captured.
Authorities are searching now for the owner.
If not found, the pig will be auctioned off.
Now, see, with other kinds of animals, it would be adopted, but in this case, they're going to auction off the pig.
A London-based company, which claims to have, get this, folks, exclusive rights to film the first sunrise of the new millennium, said yesterday, a high fence might indeed be built to stop rivals from filming.
Britain's Royal Geographical Society says the Millennium's first light will hit Pitt Island, part of the New Zealand territory of the Chatham Islands.
How can they do that?
Norris McWhirter, one partner in the Millennium Adventure Company and co-founder of the Guinness Book of World Records, says that it has bought the territorial rights to a certain hill on Pitt, and they plan a worldwide broadcast from there.
But another London firm, New Dawn 2000 says it also has got a deal on the same hill.
Millennium Adventure Chief Executive Blaine said that a three-meter-high fence was going to be considered to stop New Dawn.
He said 80% of Millennium's profits would go to the local community, said that locals would, quote, do everything to make sure that they don't lose out.
Now, check me here if I'm wrong, but if the good Lord is looking down and observing our behavior, the beginning of the new millennium would certainly be a time when he would look down and what would be the first thing he sees as the light cracks over the earth,
the first moment of that new millennium, and he's going to see two TV companies fighting, putting up fences to take pictures of the Lord's Son.
The one that shines.
You've got to imagine he would not be happy about that.
Art, can we please talk about the weather?
Well, anytime, of course.
This is from Carol in Seminole, Florida.
What in the heck are they trying to do to us?
A tornado in Sunnyvale, California, early last week.
Forecast for tonight.
Snow advisory in southeast California.
40 degrees for you.
Thursday, upper 40s, lower 20s.
Really?
Did lightning strike some of the harp towers or what?
This is crazy.
11 straight days of rain in Boston, wind chill 30 degrees, floods in the northeast, category 4 and 5 tornadoes never before seen in the areas where they've been seen.
Would you have somebody on the show to discuss this matter?
Now, I have no idea who to have except for Stan Dale.
I too am puzzled and troubled, not surprised, mind you, but puzzled and troubled about the weather.
Now, as you know, I'm going up to Alaska toward the end of the week, and I see that I've got a fax here already from the Stottendam, the ship that has sailed.
Greetings, Art, from the MS Stottendam.
It's a cold sea.
Wish Nevada Heat was here.
We are all having a ball.
Or is that a bell?
No, it'll be a bell when I get there.
It's a ball now.
We listened to a great lecture by Dr. Ed this morning, and right now Anthony West is speaking, so I'm trying to do two things at once.
No one has come to blows yet.
Everything is going along quite civilized, but there definitely is an electricity and energy in the air.
The lines are being drawn in the Sahara Sands.
You might want to bring a referee whistle with you.
I'm looking forward to that.
And then next Sunday's Dreamland will be broadcast from my Vancouver affiliate, CFUN, in obviously Vancouver.
I'm very much looking forward to that.
I've got a big long article here with regard to NASA.
It was in the Houston Chronicle.
Seems NASA can't figure out what to name the new International Space Station.
Now, my Faxer wants to call it Stargate.
I don't know.
That now is almost too common.
What do you think?
What would be a good name for the new International Space Station?
Doesn't a black hole absorb all light that passes by?
In this case, it would absorb all money that passes by, and we'd call it Black Hole.
Or maybe we could call it Event Horizon.
Anyway, as if construction delays and rising costs weren't enough, NASA is now grappling with another space station dilemma.
What to call it?
The International Space Station has no name other than the International Space Station, or ISS for short.
The usual alpha bet soup from NASA.
Station managers want a real name.
Astronauts want a real name.
And public affairs types really, really want something catchier than ISS, pronounced letter by letter, ISS.
And I think they've got a good point.
What should we call the new space station?
The international, let's see, it's got to have an international flavor to it, right?
If not a new millennium.
Ooh, how about calling it the millennium?
Too much of a mouthful, you think?
The millennium.
That'd be a pretty good name.
Anyway, I'm sure that a lot of you will think about it out there.
Here's yet another review, and they're coming in mixed on deep impact.
This one from Doris Art, I saw Deep Impact.
Some writer out there is obviously an avid fan of Coast to Coast.
A lot of what's being discussed on your show was in the movie.
They had everything in there except you and the aliens.
They had every single one of the scenarios you've examined on your show.
It was cool, but creepy.
The combination of your show and the movie made the possibility all the more real.
I cried a lot.
It was very sad.
I saw it on Mother's Day.
I have a four and eight year old, both girls.
All right, thank you very much, Doris.
I appreciate that.
And I am going to see it.
I almost saw it the other day, but just didn't quite have enough time.
So I am going to see it shortly.
And it's true, we have examined in great detail the various scenarios inherent in the possibility of something coming our way.
Some big, unstoppable rock that would give us just, you know, just enough time to consider what great people we've been all our lives and wonder what lies immediately ahead and probably pray for what we imagine lies ahead.
unidentified
*Gunshot* Thank you.
now we take you back to the night of may 11th 1998 on art bell somewhere in time Well, I'll try and get a better shot of it up there.
See, you've got to remember that in the U.S., even though I still maintain that we are absolutely the best place to live on the face of the earth, and I've been in plenty of them, so I know, the fact of the matter is that we are, to a great degree, victims of our own propaganda.
We're the biggest, we're the best.
We have more freedom than anybody else.
And while all of these things have a germ of truth in them, a lot of them have slipped a little bit.
We tend not to hear the bad news here because they don't print bad news here.
They print bad news over there about us.
We'll be right back.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 11, 1998.
Can't stay alive without your love.
Oh, baby, don't leave me.
I can't expect I'm your kid.
Don't leave me this way Baby, my heart is full of love and desire for you Now come on down and do what you gotta do You started this fire down in my soul Now can't you see it's burning out of control Come on, satisfy the need in me Only you're loving and everything.
Don't you leave me this way?
Don't you understand?
You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks.
Tonight's an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 11th, 1998.
You know the two companies that I read about that were fighting to take the first photographs of the new millennium first light?
They're going to put up big fences so other companies couldn't hog in with their cameras and see the new dawn of the first dawn of the new millennium.
This would be karma.
John in Circleville, Ohio says, Hey Art.
What happens if it's cloudy?
By the way, once again, you're hearing Lorena McKennett.
I like this one, too.
Anyway, welcome back.
We're going to have open lines through the top of the hour, and then we will have Chuck Missler and Mark Eastman, and I think you're going to find that very, very interesting.
unidentified
I'm certainly looking forward to it.
Now we take you back to the night of May 11, 1998, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Well, it does present an odd picture when you look into the next car and the person appears to be having a very animated conversation with themselves or worse yet, laughing hysterically.
Usually I hit the brake and go back three or four car lengths.
Thank you very much for the call, dear, and take care.
It is odd.
It's like when you go down the street and you see some guy just chattering away with himself and many times answering himself as well.
Well, I remember occasionally the Dodgers used to get into a game and they'd play about 22 innings, and that sucker wouldn't end until about 2.30 in the morning.
unidentified
Sports to me is like attending a borough council meeting.
It's something that just doesn't do a thing for me.
Now, baseball does that, and we just have to live with that fact.
After all, consider all the people listening to baseball.
Suppose in the middle of the ninth inning, they were to cut away to go to the Art Bell program.
I'd rather not be responsible for that.
So they just, you know, you don't do that.
I mean, when there is a tight contest underway and it's running really late, that means it's tied.
And while I am certainly not a baseball fan, I understand that to cut away in the middle of the night in a tie game would be to risk your radio station, your tower, and possibly even your license altogether, your license to broadcast.
You'd be mobbed.
Talk audiences and baseball audiences are generally not all that compatible.
You know, when the game is over, why, usually the talk people come back and the baseball people all go away.
They don't want to hear talk.
And so they're not compatible.
So it takes a little while for one to exchange to the other.
Or in some cases, I suppose, you could have baseball fans that transition into talk.
Sometimes, from the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AMN when we return.
Chuck Missler and Mark Eastman.
And we're going to talk about the Christian perspective on UFOs, Brookings, and a whole lot more.
So, as the old but trusty saying goes, don't touch that dial.
unidentified
You're listening to ArcBell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 11, 1998.
Coast to Coast AM from May
Coast to Coast AM from May 11, 1998.
11, 1998.
Coast to Coast AM from May 11, 1998.
Coast to Coast AM from May 11, 1998.
And in the springtime of here, when the trees are round with leaves, when the ash will look and their birds are new, and dressed in ribbons here, Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bells Somewhere in Time.
Tonight's program originally aired May 11th, 1998.
Well, yeah, Chuck Missler and I are both Christians.
We both believe that the Bible is the Word of God, and we believe that there are a number of aspects of the UFO ET phenomenon that seem to be anticipated by the biblical prophets.
And so we tried to address that issue in our book, and we will indeed develop that as the night goes on.
Well, first of all, I was a non-Christian for many years.
I was a skeptic, an evolutionist, agnostic, whatever you want to call it, and was convinced that the Bible was nothing but a bunch of myths and fairy tales.
And I was a fairly, I studied UFOs a little bit while I was going through college and medical school and was convinced in extraterrestrial life from the sort of normal perspective, the biblical, the non-biblical perspective, that indeed we were the products of evolution.
Therefore, there must be beings out there that also evolved.
After I became convinced that the Bible was the Word of God and I became a Christian, I sort of revisited the issue.
Number one, as I sent you in the information, we do believe that UFOs are real.
In fact, we spend the first part of the book dealing about the history of UFOs, the fact that they've been here for thousands of years, the fact that they do appear to have a reality In them, and that they are historical, dating way back almost until the earliest recorded history of mankind.
So, we do believe that they are a real phenomenon.
Okay, I take it then that you obviously must believe that man is not the only creation of God, or do you believe, as the Bible strictly seems to suggest, that we are the only creation of God?
Well, I think the Bible is actually silent on that issue.
Yeah, the Bible does not anywhere, in my understanding, and I'm sure Chuck would back me up on this because we've been interviewed and discussed this extensively, there is no statement in the Bible about extraterrestrials or life other than on planet Earth.
The Bible is a message that was given through the prophets to mankind about our history and God's plan for mankind.
Now, so the Bible is definitely, I believe, silent on the issue of extraterrestrial life.
Let me say this, that I've been studying this area for years.
I've been a pretty regular listener of your show and have heard the, you know, for about two and a half years now, and have heard many, many of the perspectives, and also read most of the major authors, Jacques Valet, J. Alan Hynek, etc.
And I don't see compelling evidence for what I would call hominoid extraterrestrials from another planet.
What we do seem to have, and we'll develop this as the night goes on, is we are being visited by an intelligence, but it seems to be, the evidence seems to be that we're dealing with an interdimensional intelligence that is beings from another dimension.
I often will, when I'm asked this question, I will often state that if there is life on other planets, it must have been created too, because when you look at the human body, you look at something like the DNA molecule.
The DNA molecule is a molecule which carries a digital, expressible in mathematical terms, a digital error correcting code.
And when I saw that and I realized that, I realized that there's no way that it could have arisen by chance.
And so if there is extraterrestrial...
if you would roll over that one more time the DNA molecule is a Our DNA molecule is a vastly complex molecule.
Now, what's interesting, Art, is that our educational institutions want us to believe that a lightning bolt or some other energy source struck a puddle 3 billion years ago and gradually over time the DNA molecule evolved.
Well, the problem is, Art, is that with all of the PhDs, all of the molecular biologists, the biochemists that we have today, if they started with raw materials, meaning just atom atoms, they cannot, with all of their know-how and all of the laboratory equipment that is available today, they can't even create a DNA molecule.
So using information, know-how, biochemical expertise that we have with laboratory equipment and all of the resources available to our universities, we cannot create a DNA molecule.
And yet they ask us to believe that a lightning bolt striking a puddle did it.
Well, we have to, when we talk about evolution, we have to define our terms.
I believe that there is such a thing as evolution within the species.
In other words, within the populations of, say, Darwin's finches.
We do see natural selection working on existing gene pools to cause certain genes to be expressed and be more predominant in certain environments as opposed to others.
So evolution within a species is indeed something that I believe in and we see evolutionists refer to it as microevolution.
I prefer to call it not microevolution, but variation within a kind.
For example, if you take two medium brown mutt dogs found out in the wild, in one man's lifetime, you can take those two dogs and by selective breeding, you can create a species of five foot tall black dogs or one foot tall white dogs by simply, and if we were to line up the bones of all the forms in between and bury them in the sediment, people would look at that and say, look, it's proof of evolution.
Well, it's proof of no such thing.
It's simply proof that within the gene pool of what they call the wild type or a mutt, as we would refer to it, there is the capability to produce a wide variety of body types, skeletal types, skin types, etc.
And we see the same thing within Darwin's finches.
And I'm telling you, there are many evolution in Europe, Darwinian evolution in Europe and in Canada and many other places is dying on the vine because the evidence is coming out very strongly that there is no fossil evidence of any true transitional forms.
And even more than that is the theory behind evolution.
There is no explanation, I mean no explanation for the origin of DNA by chance.
Not only that, in order to go from an amoeba to a man, you have to have an addition of genetic material that is about 2,000 times more complex in terms of the amount of DNA.
And information scientists will tell you that information, codes, and programs will never arise by chance.
And so in order to go from an amoeba to a man, you have to have the addition of billions of bits of what is called holistic information stored by the DNA molecule.
And chance does not, cannot, and will not produce such codes and programs.
Well, you know, the most beautiful naked woman standing there.
I think Adam was impressed.
So God had to make Eve.
And then the story in the Bible is that they disobeyed God.
And at that point, God may have introduced the entropy laws, which led ultimately to the decay in the DNA molecule.
Now, as a physician, I treat the effects of the second law of thermodynamics all day.
And if you think about the DNA molecule from an information point of view, the information scientists will tell you that information over time always degrades.
The original tapes that the Beatles did in the 1960s, even though they've been stored in vaults, have developed informational errors, pop and click over time.
The Dead Sea Scrolls, informationally intact in the beginning, have decayed tremendously.
Records decay.
CD-ROMs eventually will decay.
And the DNA molecule, which is a physical, but it is an error, it carries an error-correcting digital code over time has indeed decayed.
And so what we see over time is the DNA code, if you're God, let's assume that there is a God and that he's going to make a man and a woman.
Well, God is omnipotent, we would assume that he would have made the code to be perfect with no errors in the beginning.
And over time, the entropy laws have introduced errors into the code.
But there is another way to look at it, Doctor, and that is that the process of evolution itself causes adaptation of the genetic code to meet environmental requirements.
Darwin, when he went to the Galapagos Islands and he saw all of these different types of finches, he saw finches with large beaks and small beaks and long beaks.
He saw large finches and small finches.
He noticed that the various finches, that the sizes and the shapes and the strength of their beaks and their musculature was adapted to the particular food available in their particular environment.
Now, Darwin assumed that these were different species, that macroevolution had occurred and that the original finches that had been blown over or floated over on a log to the Galapagos Islands had evolved to the point where the species that were there now were no longer genetically compatible with the other birds.
But in 1991, a paper was published in Scientific American where they showed that Darwin's finches, all the different types of species, are interbreedable.
It's like, I mean, basically, if you take the small finches and breed them with the large finches, you get medium finches.
Here's why I bring that up, because a lot of abduction cases seem to report what appears to be reproductive DNA-type research, and abductees will report seeing their own young.
Now, is it then reasonable to conclude that an interdimensional traveler from another complete society that has been around perhaps longer than ours has had a large degrading of their DNA, and they are using an infusion of our DNA to, in effect, correct future generations.
The inbreeding that occurs when, in fact, there are islands, there's an island in the Philippines where there's a tremendous amount of inbreeding.
Very little genetic material from the outside has gotten in, and the entire population has arthritis and a form of rickets, and these people, their bony structure looks like Neanderthals.
They are living Neanderthals.
And in fact, Neanderthal, when Rudolf Virkow in the 1800s was first given the chance to examine the bones of Neanderthal, he said Neanderthal is us, but with a lot of inbreeding has caused the development of a large number of the people to have arthritis and rickets, as a vitamin D deficiency.
So that's indeed the diversity issue is improved when you have crossbreeding between the races, They don't have the genetic diversity that you need to survive in the wild.
Well, remember, as I contended before, if God indeed did make Adam and Eve, and if God being omniscient being, created them, we presume that he would have created them without any errors in the genetic code.
So that inbreeding at that time would not have been an issue.
It would not have produced mutants like today.
If you marry your sister or a cousin, you have a very great increased risk of a genetic error that they might have that's a recessive combining with a recessive gene that you might have, and then it gets expressed as some horrible disease.
There were no genetic errors at that time, and it wasn't until after the fall of man and thousands of years of the second law taking effect.
He received a congressional appointment to the United States Naval Academy at Annapolis, Maryland, graduated with honors, received his commission in the U.S. Air Force.
By the time he completed his military obligations, he had become Branch Chief of the Air Force's Department of Guided Missiles.
His civilian career began as a systems engineer at TRW, followed by a senior analyst position in a think tank research center for both the intelligence community and the Department of Defense.
Meanwhile, he completed a master's degree in engineering at UCLA with additional postgraduate studies, including applied mathematics, advanced statistics, and informational sciences.
Then was recruited by the Ford Motor Company into a senior management position.
We, in the first half hour, while you were probably madly dashing around, have been talking about genetics, Adam and Eve, evolution versus creation, and all that sort of thing.
And the good doctor has been laying out why he believes that we are created.
We are not something that evolved from a strike of lightning into a soup of something or another.
And then we crawled forth and finally became what we are today.
I've got to speak carefully here because I am not on any active clearances at the moment, but I have held them in the past, and because of my background, I work hard to honor those.
I have friends in the classified community that have helped me.
There are friends of mine that are still within the deeply classified community, and we can talk a little bit about that.
But the point is, clearly, and it's a mystery to many of them exactly what's going on, but clearly there's more than one group within the government labyrinth that seem to spend significant budgets on disinformation.
And so I would imagine if what you say you know to be true is true, that this program would be the target of, absolutely would be the target of disinformation.
I would subscribe to that 100%, Art, because I can't speculate on what their agenda is.
That's a complicated question.
However, there's just no question about it.
I think anyone that's followed this area carefully over the years will generally subscribe to the fact that there is a lot of disinformation, and some of it is not trivial pranks.
When you study that thing, you begin to realize, if you have any background in production, that thing had quite a budget.
Someone went through an awful lot of trouble.
What's a mystery about it is they didn't go to quite enough trouble to make it thoroughly convincing.
There are a couple of tip-offs in the thing.
The fact that you've got a guy behind the glass wearing a surgical mask is an example of that.
The point is, I happened to, I was inquiring, I've got to be careful how I say this, I had some friends there in the deeply classified community, and that's one of the questions I brought up.
He says, you know, the autopsy video is obviously something that required a significant budget, a budget that's probably larger than they recovered by promoting the video.
And the inadvertent disclosure was, there's plenty of money in the black community.
Now, in the vocabulary we're talking about, black is not a racist thing.
It's a term used of what's called a compartmented program.
And maybe it's appropriate to just give a brief tutorial here.
There are obviously contracts that are classified, secret, top secret, or whatever.
If you really want to secure a contract, the next level is what they call compartmentization.
What they do is they classify the existence of the contract.
And since that is typically an intelligence ops, not necessarily, but usually, the cliché is the program went black.
It's a black ops.
I was shocked to discover, Art, that there is a third level.
I was chairman of the board of a publicly traded defense contractor, and I was called into a meeting in which I discovered that there is a level of classification that in my several decades of defense activities, I never even knew about.
And that's where the existence of your customer is classified.
I was called in, and we asked to have our banker represented, First Interstate Bank was called in.
And the people that came in passed out their business cards, but quickly pointed out that the titles and names are covers, and we knew that.
And they pointed out that we were eligible for our contract.
I won't go through the whole thing.
I won't bore you with it.
The point is, it turned out we did succeed in getting the contract, and it was the B-2 before it was handed over to Notre.
And the little business card said High Technology Research Associates, but that was just a cover at the time.
The point is, I didn't realize there's a whole infrastructure, there are courts and other procedures to handle contractors' problems and things, in a community that is even deeper than the black community.
I'll tell you what makes it complicated to try to analyze is because some of the disinformation is aimed at discrediting the whole UFO area.
But there's also projects sprung that seem to bolster the UFO area.
I'll give you one example.
I personally have the suspicion, let me say it very carefully, I personally have the suspicion that the sighting on March 13th of 1997 over Phoenix, Arizona, I believe that that was a program, a military program of projection holography.
The Department of Defense had a program called Non-Lethal Weapons that went black in 1994.
And I have no idea how they really execute this, but apparently they have the technology to create very large-scale illusions.
The enigma is what do you do with it?
You know, you can intimidate a battlefield, who knows.
It's my suspicion for some subtle reasons that what really went on in Phoenix was a demonstration or a trial or a test of that technology.
I suspect that what went over that segment of Arizona was not a UFO as We generally would tend to define it.
I think personally, that was a military gambit of some kind as a test.
The military, specifically the Air Force, for example, not long ago had this big news conference with Colonel Haynes to debunk the whole Roswell business.
And case closed, Roswell case closed, they called it, whatever it was.
Now, that would indicate that the government, as represented by the military, is trying to debunk the whole UFO thing.
So why in God's name would they do something to intentionally create the illusion of a gigantic UFO over a major city?
And I've been through those documents, and I also have been through all the debunking of years ago.
And one of the suspicions that I've returned to, and it's just a suspicion, you have to be candid, I don't have inside information on this one, but I suspect, for lots of reasons, that the MJ-12 kind of thing does indeed exist.
That there is some kind of a group that enjoys very deep cover.
I contacted through up through, fortunately, I'm blessed with a good team of guys, and one of them is John Loffler, who's a good friend of Maliki Martin.
And he's sort of one of the experts of Vatican Watchers, if you will.
Well, I talked to Maliki the other day, and by the way, he confirmed everything you just said, not the MJ-12 business, but he said, look, the aliens are absolutely real.
So the thing that hit me talking to Stan Friedman and being aware of his thoroughness and methodical approach to life, what intrigued me is this whole surfacing of documents 20 years ago and their subsequent debunking is exactly the kind of art form that the intelligence community has developed to a high level of science.
The ability to surface a story and have it subsequently debunked is the perfect way to cover an operation.
By the way, is there any advice you can give to the listening audience with respect to how to discern when you're hearing disinformation or a paid disinformation agent?
I ask that because everybody is accused of being one, including me, all the time.
I get so sick of it, I finally tell people, yeah, that's right.
I think the only way, it almost becomes an exercise in cryptography in the sense that you have to judge the source and you have to put it against a fabric of background.
Because good disinformation by its design and by the resources behind it should be not discernible as disinformation.
So part of what one is faced with is putting together a perspective of multiple sources against a fabric of a worldview or a background.
Well, that's one of the impressive things about Stanton Friedman's work, is that he took the resumes of the so-called 12 prominent people and discovered by getting into their backgrounds and building their dossiers that one of them changed and really spent his career quietly debunking UFO stories, even asserting technical cover stories that he knew were not scientifically valid.
So that's one of the things.
You do get the impression that there has been, even as early as the late 40s, early 50s, very, very organized disinformation to discredit or confuse the whole UFO area.
Oh, I've got to tell you candidly, the book is very controversial.
Our book, Alien Encounters, is controversial not because of the UFO background.
We, especially Mark, has done such a thorough job at just trying to recap for the average listener the whole background.
But candidly, that's pretty straightforward, solid stuff.
The thing that's made the book very, very bitterly controversial is not the UFO stuff, it's the Bible stuff.
Because in chapter 10, we deal very aggressively, very assertively, with the whole issue of Genesis chapter 6.
And it turns out that even though we take the classic position and defend it, I think, thoroughly, pastors and many, many people within the Christian community are really upset with us because they can't handle the whole idea of angels coming down and all that business.
We present rather carefully and rather thoroughly what's called, what I might call the angel view of Genesis 6, that there were somehow some pretty strange beings that entered mankind's history to create a set of hybrids.
That's in the Bible, and in fact, you really won't understand most of the Old Testament unless you recognize what's going on behind the scenes.
Well, we were talking again before you arrived, Chuck, with Dr. Eastman about genetics, and he said that our genetic code is, in effect, deteriorating, and that that would occur to any race.
That even with error correction, genetic code would slowly sort of deteriorate.
And as we know, from a lot of people who have claimed to have been abducted, the experimentation seems to be related to reproductive systems and to genetics.
Art Bell Karen in Houston would like to name the International Space Station.
They were looking for a name, you know.
She says, how about Voya?
got a kind of a big brother sound to it.
It might even indicate to the people of the world what the mission is, and they wouldn't like that, so I'm not sure that one would fly.
Back now to my guests, Chuck Mizler and Dr. Mark Eastman.
Gentlemen, welcome back.
Doctor, before we proceed, I have a question for you, or somebody from Eugene, Oregon does.
Alex asks, first of all, the famous lightning bolt theory states that amino acids were created in the primordial soup, not DNA, which may have evolved to its current level of complexity over millions of years.
Dr. Eastman also implied that anything complex like the DNA molecule must have been created by an almighty intelligence.
If this is the case, then what exactly created the power and complexity of a god?
Lightning bolts striking a puddle is one that I get quite frequently.
In 1953, Stanley Miller, who was actually a chemistry professor at UCSD, he won the Nobel Prize for an experiment where he passed methane, water, ammonia, gas in a chamber and he sparked it.
And it was to try to imitate the spark and soup experiment.
And he produced two amino acids, glycine and alanine, which are the simplest of amino acids.
And the scientific community went crazy, and they said, ah, he's produced the building blocks of life by chance.
Therefore, can't the whole building be built by chance.
But when you look carefully at his experiments, you see there's a couple problems.
Number one, Stanley Miller did not use chance.
He used biochemical know-how.
The first time he did the experiment, he got no products relevant to life.
The second time, after using his knowledge of physical chemistry and biochemistry, he tweaked the experiments, optimized the condition, which means he introduced know-how, information, thoughts, concepts, ideas, and he was able to then produce the amino acids.
Secondly, so he didn't use chance, he used information, which is what the creation model says.
The creation model says that life is the product of information, know-how, thoughts.
Based on the understanding in 1953, they believed that the ancient atmosphere was an oxygen-lacking atmosphere.
And so he tried to imitate what was believed to be what was called the reducing atmosphere.
When he did his experiment the second time, he did indeed produce the two amino acids.
And I was taught this in college, and I was convinced, okay, if he made amino acids, then life can happen by chance.
However, when you look at what he produced, he produced 87% tar.
We're talking asphalt.
13% of what he produced are carboxylic acids, roughly 13% carboxylic acids, which are chemicals that will poison enzymes.
If Stanley Miller had drank the solution that created, he would have met his creator within six minutes because the carboxylic acids will irreversibly bind to enzymes causing instant death.
When you look at amino acids, amino acids have a three-dimensional structure.
And just for the sake of it, let's talk about, say, glycine.
Glycine is an amino acid which all amino acids exist in left-handed and right-handed forms.
Now, I use the term left-handed and right-handed because it's easy to illustrate on the radio.
If you take your two hands and hold them against each other, they are mirror images of each other.
Now, what Stanley Miller made was equal portions, 50% left and 50% right-handed amino acids.
In fact, his experiment has been repeated dozens of times under dozens of different conditions, and the results are always the same.
You produce a 50% mixture of left-handed and right-handed amino acids and building blocks.
Now, here's the problem art.
We are told that we evolved out of such a mixture.
It's called a racemic mixture.
But the problem is, is that you and me and all of the life forms on planet Earth, our amino acids are exclusively of the left-handed type.
And so if you're going to imagine, say you're going to dip in by chance with a blindfolder, you're going to try to produce a protein, which is a string of amino acids, every time you reach in to pull out an amino acid, you have a 50% chance of grabbing a left or right-handed amino acid.
And so it becomes a mathematical absurdity to assume that you could produce by chance a mixture of, from a mixture of 50% left and right-handed molecules, amino acids, that you could produce a structure that is pure left-handed proteins.
If you take the right-handed amino acids and you put them in a mixture of living organisms, they are toxic to the organisms, they bind the amino acids, basically are, in a nutshell, what Stanley Miller created is equivalent to the kind of toxic environment that the government is spending billions of dollars trying to clean up.
Why?
Because it will kill you.
And they ask us to believe that life arose out of such a soup?
It is impossible.
It is mathematically impossible because of the nature of the chirality, the right-handed and left-handed amino acids.
And so there is a way to get a racemic mixture like this, this right-and-left-handed mixture.
There is a way to get a protein out of it, but you must introduce something very powerful.
It's called biochemical know-how.
And that requires a mind.
And that is why I today am no longer an evolutionist, but I was before.
That is one of the many reasons.
Secondly, we talked about the fact that the DNA molecule, which is not even related to amino acids, there's no chemical relationship other than they're built from the same kinds of atoms.
The DNA molecule is a molecule which carries A tremendous digital error-correcting code, and they do not arise by chance.
With the two of you being confirmed ufologists, in other words, believing that UFOs are real, not necessarily from other stars, systems, or planets, but rather from other dimensions.
That's one of the major theories that involve UFOs in the mainstream UFO community.
Very common.
Then how can you be sure that our presence is not accounted for not by a creator as we understand in the Bible, but rather by other dimensional beings?
Information in theory, this way, Art, I would say they're right, in this way.
Life on Earth did have to be created by an extraterrestrial entity because the laws of nature are insufficient to explain the origin of life now on planet Earth.
So if we give, well, okay, we were sprinkled three billion years ago by aliens, we then have to say, well, where'd they come from?
Well, they were sprinkled by a previous population.
Well, where'd they come from?
And the problem is, is you cannot have an infinite regression backwards in time because the universe is finite.
Albert Einstein and Hawking and Penrose and Ellis and many others have shown that there is not an infinite amount of time.
Well, Doctor, if your own theory is correct, and over time DNA deteriorates, and you were a very, very advanced race who knew that, then you might well seed planets with what you know to be very good DNA and let the garden grow.
Well, and I'm not so sure it has demonstrated that.
I believe there was something that occurred, a Big Bang, if you will.
But we just recently saw this gamma ray burst from 12 billion light-years out, which would be at the very edge of what we imagine to be the Big Bang right now.
And it's like there was another Big Bang out there.
Whether it was the creation of any new stars or universes or galaxies or anything remains to be speculated.
But it was definitely some kind of a bang.
But I think Chuck's pointing out that if we give that our population here on Earth was seeded, which is, by the way, the third explanation for our origin, Darwinian evolution and God are the first and second explanations, God, then Darwin.
The third explanation is now we were seated here by ETs, you still don't have the answer to the question, well, if the laws of physics as we know them are basically uniform, the laws of chemistry and physics are uniform throughout our universe, you still don't have an explanation within our space-time domain that can explain the origin of life without the introduction from outside the system, some sort of biochemical expertise or know-how.
You know, you can't have an infinite regression back in time of aliens flying around the universe, sprinkling planets, because you still have to get to the point where you explain where was the first life in the universe.
and the first life in the universe had to have had the input of information from outside the system in order to get...
Yes, there has to be an extra-dimensional being beyond the aquarium that you and I live in who imputed information, biochemical expertise or know-how onto matter and coded it with the information that we see because chance is absolutely insufficient to explain the origin of not only the molecules art, but the software that is carried by the molecules.
Oh, I'm with you all the way here, but look, technology sufficiently advanced to make us go, wow, is indistinguishable from magic, right?
Yes.
So it could be a being so far advanced that for us to sit here and discuss him, and we're doing this abstractly now, we could call him a god or we could call him an extraterrestrial.
Scientists, most scientists would indeed agree that the space-time domain, because of the laws of entropy and because of the expansion of the universe, is finite.
Now, if we give that the universe began at a finite point in time, it puts us in a position to speculate about the minimum resume or the minimum attributes of a being who might claim to be the creator of this universe.
First of all, since the universe is finite, if we give that, we would have to expect that this being would be a being who's independent of the universe, just like I would be independent of, say, an aquarium that I might build.
Secondly, that creator, from our perspective, since if the universe is an effect, the law of cause and effect says that an effect is always less than the cause, such a creator would, from our perspective, then be all-powerful or all-omniscient.
Third, if the creator had the knowledge to make a baby out of dirt, which is what babies are made out of, dirt ultimately, he would be, from our perspective, omniscient.
And finally, once he made the universe, he would have to be able to not only exist independent of the universe, be able to act within our space-time domain, and that's the attribute of transcendence.
In effect, if I create an aquarium, I can be outside the aquarium, but I can put my hand inside the aquarium and tinker with the aquarium on the inside.
I exist simultaneously inside and outside the aquarium.
So those are the minimum attributes of any being, Art, that would claim to be the creator of this universe, and the Bible describes God exactly that way.
I'm often asked the question, Mark, how old do you believe the universe is?
And with my tongue in my cheek, I say, which part?
If you take two clocks that are created out in a microgravity environment, you put one clock on planet Earth and the other clock you put it next to the event horizon of a black hole, those two clocks are spinning dramatically out of sync.
One clock will be going tick, tick, tick, while the other one is whizzing millions of times faster.
Within our space-time domain, you don't have an absolute fixed reference point whereby you say, this is the fixed point whereby we measure the age of the universe.
In order to know how old the universe is, you'd have to be a being who's not confined to space and time, but the independent of space and time.
And that is indeed one of, as I mentioned, the minimum attributes of God is independence of space and time.
And God chose not to tell us age factors about the age of the universe.
Like I said, you could have possibly, because of the effect of gravity, you could possibly have one part of the universe that is very, very old because of gravity effects there, and another part of the universe that is young because of local gravity effects that affect the time.
As Chuck said, time speeds up when you get into lower gravity areas.
And so the point is this, is there is no absolute fixed reference point by which you date the universe.
All right, you say these beings are interdimensional because of apparent evidence that they can materialize, dematerialize, morph, travel at speeds impossible for physical craft, 25,000 miles an hour and so forth through the atmosphere, that kind of thing.
Art Bell, Somewhere in Time Well, all right, I think all of us, more than anything else, wonder from whence we came.
How did we get here?
Who are we?
Why are we here?
Why are we supposed to go through this normal lifespan and go through what we call life this suffering on planet Earth?
To what end?
Is there an end?
Yes.
Is there something after the end?
I don't know.
Here once again, Chuck Misler and Dr. Mark Eastman.
Gentlemen, welcome back.
We agreed from your own, I'm reading from your own material now, interdimensional as evidenced by their ability to materialize, dematerialize, morph, and travel at speeds impossible for mere physical craft.
Their occupants display the same interdimensional, some would say supernatural abilities that we ascribe to angels or agents of the devil or whatever.
I think the other dimension to all of this, to discussion, you know, you asked earlier about disinformation, you know, thinking in terms of just the pragmatics of researching this area.
When Mark and I first undertook this project, one of the original title was going to be called Cosmic Deception, because we became convinced in our researches that there is a giant delusion coming upon the planet Earth.
And, you know, we talk about disinformation in the sense of agents and people for whatever reasons, whatever motivations, trying to confuse the whole UFO area.
The part of the interesting thing is that the researchers of all kinds seem to have come to the same conclusion in terms of the agenda of the beings themselves.
Jacques Belay came to that conclusion.
J. Alan Hynek I believe did, in the sense that these things pose as things that they're not, if you follow what I'm trying to say.
I believe that abductions are, that the people that are experiencing this phenomenon believe they are real.
That wasn't the question.
I'm not 100% convinced either way.
I've had an awful lot of people that have presented evidence to me to try to sway me one way or another.
These beings, these interdimensional beings, people like Jacques Velet and John Mack and J. Allen Hynek have pointed out that these beings have the kind of power that we ascribe to omnipotent, in effect, angel, angelic beings.
And so they have the capability of certainly abducting someone.
And they certainly also have the capability of projecting a false reality that would make someone believe that they were abducted.
And as we know, there are many people that claim abduction experiences, and yet their spouses say they were there the whole night.
In fact, we talk about that extensively, and Chuck has made some startling discoveries in the book of Genesis, chapter 6, that gave us some disturbing, very disturbing insights on what may be going on.
We may be seeing the return of the days of Noah, where interdimensional beings in the days of Noah tweaked with the DNA of mankind and produced hybrid beings then.
I think that's one of the reasons so many people, Christians, have difficulties with Genesis 6 and subsequent passages.
I think the abduction phenomenon, as seems to be well documented by people like John Mack, we might beg the question of exactly what does the abduction really involve physically?
Is it just some kind of impression?
Is it a pseudo-reality of some kind?
Those are other issues.
But there have been abductions that have left physical lesion.
And I encountered one of these since we published the book.
And I want to speak delicately here because I have advised the parties involved to keep their experience quiet for their own personal sakes.
A woman who had a UFO encounter some 28 years ago and didn't realize really what was going on.
It was just an incident.
And I won't go through the whole medical history, but it turns out in recent years she had a physical because of some bone cancer in her foot.
But in doing the CAT scans and the rest at one of the Promote University clinics, they asked her when she had her bone biopsies.
It turns out that in her hip there are two, evidence of two bone biopsies, and she has no recollection of that when she indicated she didn't know what they're talking about.
She lost credibility with the examiners because you can't have a procedure like that and not know it.
Turns out, to make a long story short, by piecing all the evidence together, that apparently was a byproduct of this encounter she had so many, many years ago.
Her husband and the woman were quite troubled for a number of other reasons, and I met with their pastor, and I advised her for lots of reasons, now that it's disclosed between her and her husband and the pastor, to keep it private, because if that gets out, their lives will be ruined by journalists and people trying to publish in this area, that for their own personal well-being, to just keep it quiet.
But the point is, because of those kinds of experiences, I probably have a stronger view about the abductions than Dr. Eastman has.
But I think that something is going on.
Perhaps many of the encounters, and I think that's what John Mack is dealing with, are very real to the people involved, and they've been profiled.
Okay, but this goes back to my original theory extended from the good doctors, and that was that if our DNA is deteriorating, then somebody, somebody, somebody is, may well have, in effect, seeded us here and made an early, albeit somewhat clumsy attempt to strengthen their own DNA by actually physically mixing with us.
When that didn't work out so well, they, or God, as you will, flooded the planet and got rid of the stakes and just barely got started all over again.
I mean, the whole thing kind of makes sense.
And if you look at present-day abductions, again, they seem oriented toward genetics and toward reproduction.
It seems like a more sophisticated attempt at what once was Neville.
Well, I think, see, all of this is really tiptoeing around the record that we have.
In other words, part of our dynamic is the recognition that we're in possession of a message from that Creator, and you can prove it.
In the sense that we have 66 books that we call the Bible that we now have discovered is an integrated message on the one hand, and the second point is that you can prove its origin had to be outside the time dimension, the dimensionality of time.
And that lays out both the history, but also gives us a clue as to what's really going on and where are the pawns or prizes, however you want to look at it, of a cosmic conflict.
And that's also the interesting conclusion, in effect, of guys like David Jacobs in his way with his recent publication, Fall Threat.
That's John Mack's conclusion.
The thing that they're missing, in my mind, is the portrayal that there is clearly a cosmic conflict going on behind the dimensionalities that we're familiar with.
Now, the particle physicists have told us that we're at least 10 dimensions.
We're familiar and experienced four of them directly.
But this interdimensional idea starts, you know, this whole proof that occurred in about 1982, 83 in the University of Paris, that particles, below the atomic level, particles have no longer a locality.
They're non-local.
But somehow there is a reality, a real reality, behind the physical dimensions that we experience.
And I think part of what the Bible portrays, and partly what we're experiencing with the UFO phenomenon, is that there seems to be some kind of being that is able to be interdimensional.
Now, the disturbing aspect of these so-called aliens, or whatever you want to label them, is that they indulge in deceit.
They pretend to be from other planets, whatever, and they carry messages of various kinds.
And as you start pulling that together, you realize, and that's what I think Jacobs and some of the secular researchers have also come to the conclusion, that they indulge in deception.
I mean, if we're going to talk about separate dimensions, then what we think of as our creator could be the creator of those who created us or five generations or dimensions out.
I think one of the pillars upon which our book is built is an area of expertise that Chuck Missler has deals with the book of Genesis, chapter 6.
And I'd like to hear, Chuck, for the benefit of your audience that has not had anybody really develop Genesis 6 from a Christian perspective, sort of give the overview of that and why it's relevant to UFOs and indeed.
Well, it's interesting, of course, in Genesis 6, it really lays down the background for the flood of Noah.
And this is relevant to Christians because Jesus made the remark that, in terms of his second coming, as we might call it, his return, that it will be as the days of Noah.
And the problem with that remark that he makes in Matthew 24 and elsewhere is that most of us have not done our homework as to what led up to the flood of Noah.
And when you study Genesis 6 carefully and just look at what the text actually says, it's very disturbing because it indicates that as men began to multiply on the face of the earth, that there were, the term in the Hebrew, the original text, is bani ha-helohim.
It's a term that's translated in our Bibles as the sons of God.
But it's a technical term that is consistently used throughout the Old Testament to speak of angels.
And these angels, obviously fallen angels, came down and apparently, somehow, and it's not explicitly laid out how, but they took wives of human women and had offspring.
And we need to understand, discern the difference, I believe, between the hybrids, which are called in the Hebrew the Nephilim or fallen ones.
It comes from a, it's a plural noun from a verb nephal, meaning the fallen ones.
It's translated giants in our English Bible for some strange reasons, and they happen to be giants, but that's not the point.
The point is that they were a hybrid.
And these hybrids, apparently, were a plot to contaminate the human genome.
And that was part of God's plan was to keep that pure because he had a destiny that the Bible is really all about.
That's the real climax of the whole biblical narrative.
But the point is, when you read about Noah in verse 9 of Genesis 6, it makes one of the distinctives about Noah was that his genealogy was not contaminated.
And so the whole flood, you know, you stop and think about it, it's a pretty weird, extreme move to wipe out all but nine people.
And there's nine people because he removed one of them prior to the flood, namely Enoch.
And then eight people, Noah and his three sons and their four wives, are preserved through this weird thing called an ark and all that.
And on it goes.
Now the point is, the other little incident in Genesis 6, it says that these things occurred before the flood and also after that.
And it's interesting, what I'm obviously talking about is the classical view that was held by the Jewish scholars for centuries.
It's also the view that was originally held by the very early church.
They took that, this is all very, very straightforward.
It was a very uncomfortable position in about the third century, fourth century onward.
And so they contrived a view which is called by most people the Sethite view.
Well, what this really means is that there were two lines, the lines of Seth and the lines of Cain, and that they were not supposed to intermarry, but they did intermarry, and that was the abuse or the inappropriate behavior.
Well, it turns out the whole line of Seth view, which is commonly taught throughout much of the Christian community, is a way around this.
But what's interesting, it has absolutely no scriptural support.
The biblical prohibition against marrying your sister was something which occurred long after the flood, long after the fall of Adam and Eve.
Adam and Eve, remember we talked about this in the first hour, if we assume that they were made by God, we can assume that they would have been genetically pure.
I think the fundamental purpose of that deception is to thwart the plan of God But I think the fact that these beings appear to present themselves as something they're not, that they're from Pleiades or wherever, is all a facade.
Well, we talked a little bit in Genesis 6 that in effect you had interdimensional beings that came down and corrupted the human gene pool by intermingling with humanity.
The offspring, these Nephilim, the Bible says, were the men of renown.
They were tremendously powerful, these hybrid beings, and God scrubbed the planet Earth because of this, what was really a thwarting of the genetic planet God had.
One of the interesting things about the Genesis 6 portrayal is that we find the same portrayal buried in virtually every ancient culture on the planet Earth, whether the Sumerians, the Babylonians, the Egyptians, the ancient Greeks, even the American Indians, all have folklore that somehow memorialize some kind of celestial beings that come down and interbreed with humans, creating a hybrid group.
But I think one of the things as we get into this, is having talked to a lot of people about this, let's not confuse the beings that came down, whatever they were, and the hybrids that derived from them.
But the point is, something did happen back there.
Now, in reconciling our view, we can't get away from the fact that we also believe we've discovered That the Bible record has some very unique properties that convince us that it's really the reliable record of what's going on.
And it's part of our perception, in fact, the whole project of getting into this research area is because Jesus Christ made some interesting four disciples came to him for a confidential briefing on his second coming.
Well, first of all, I'd distinguish between the fallen angels kind of thing and the hybrids that apparently they're attempting to deal with.
I think the Nephilim of the Bible obviously died.
They drowned in the flood.
There are some conjectures that the demons of the New Testament are the disembodied spirits of those very Nephilim, because there seems to be a distinction between angels and demons in the Bible that even the scholars argue about.
This is certainly in the area of conjectures.
but a body, be it an alien or whatever, is a body.
We know from the Bible that angels are immortal beings, and as Chuck said, the Nephilim, which was a corruption of the angels and humans combined, were indeed mortal beings.
They were killed in the flood.
Goliath was killed by David.
And so I think that what we're dealing with here is if we did find a body, it would most likely be a hybrid.
You know how with the abduction scenario, a lot of the people that, for example, David Jacobs in his book Secret Life wrote about women who claim that they've seen the fruit of the unions.
They state that the hybrids are very frail, sickly, in some cases, very frail-looking individuals.
Well, I think in a sense that we're helping them in the sense that we apparently are pawns of experiments as they're trying to unravel their problem dealing with a degraded breathing stuff.
Anyways, the question I have is, why would the Bible written thousands of years ago be associated with this sort of New Age topic of aliens or interdimensional beings?
I mean, to me, these subjects aren't related.
I mean, it's kind of far-fetched.
Every time you open your mind, you have to close the door.
In fact, I've got a manuscript and publication should be out this summer called Cosmic Codes, Hidden Messages from the Edge of Eternity, which is an attempt to deal with the confusion that Drosnan book has created.
Is it possible that the watchers who were involved in the birthing of this group of Nephilim, is it possible that in this two-way street interaction that's potentially gone on here for all of time since the fall of man,
is it possible that they are also monitoring us on an ongoing basis, in a sense, in kind of a strange way, because they were created ministering spirits, if indeed they were angelic beings.
Maybe this is an aberration of what they were doing originally.
And also, do you think they might be monitoring us to try and get another tag on or using us as kind of an almost a clock, a DNA clock, to try and ascertain just how close we are to that final time?
We do know that all the angels apparently watch us with great fascination.
Peter makes a reference that they, speaking of even God's program, that they find out what God is doing by watching his actions through us.
It's some very interesting allusions in the epistles.
Also, you may recall in the demoniac at Gadera, they knew that they have an ultimate destiny.
They challenged, they recognize who Jesus is and say, we come to Tormus before the time.
So clearly they know the scenario in general, and clearly they are ambiguous as to where we are on that scenario.
So your question and its implied speculations, I think, are right on target.
the fact that they may be beyond an opportunity to choose their own destiny, but they're aware of the destiny they have.
And if the good angels, so to speak, are monitoring us with such interest as Peter alludes to, then it wouldn't surprise me at all that these other creatures, whatever they are, are somewhat in the same mode in terms of...
Yes, it seems, and again, I have no insight that any people that have done any reading in this area would have, namely that they are prevalent, they're serious enough that ranchers are upset about them.
Yeah, these types of genetic experiments have been going on for some time.
I'm not sure that anybody's produced any offspring by that method, but there have been xenographs where they'll take those type of genetic experimentations.
But if our conclusions about the genetic tampering and experimentation are correct, then that would be, even with the science we know today, a logical progression for these dimensional beings.
One of the disturbing things about Genesis 6 is that when you look at the activities of Genesis 6, the intermingling, the messing up of the human genome, there's all of these stories in mythology about hybrid entities in the animal kingdom as well.
And Chuck and I have pondered, you know, wondering, gee, could the activities that occurred back in those days really have been real rather than mythological?
And could those same activities be happening today?
Yeah, both Enoch and Elijah apparently did not go through death.
They're singled out with some very distinctives.
But I think you're right.
Enoch is one of the most intriguing characters in the Bible because he gives the first prophecy.
He uttered a prophecy of the second coming of Christ even before the flood of Noah.
And he obviously had this strange experience with Methuselah because he knew that his son would be, as long as he was alive, the flood would be withheld.
And many people do suspect, I don't happen to agree, but many people do suspect that he might be one of the two witnesses in Revelation 11.
I'm among those that hold that the Revelation 11 thing is Elijah and Moses for some subtle reasons, but there are good scholars that suspect it might be Enoch and Elijah.
He's a very interesting character.
But I don't know how else further, if he is one of the two witnesses, then he does have, interestingly enough, a climactic destiny in the scenario as it reaches its climax.
unidentified
I actually came up with a scenario.
God obviously thought a lot of Enoch.
Now to turn Enoch against God would be a big trophy, as you were talking about earlier, for Satan.
Now, this is just a scenario, but what if Enoch himself would have been chosen to be the Antichrist and Satan has tried to deceive him to turn him against God?
He would obviously have a lot of the qualities of Enoch.
I think most people who studied them and also studied the UFOs tend to link them together.
There are some ranchers that feel that the government's screwing around or something, but I think there's a lot of evidence.
There's a lot of blood gone.
And they're dropped from great heights.
Some of them have their backboats.
There's a number of aspects that seem to characterize the cattle mutilations that certainly are suggestive of some kind of high-technology hanky-fanky.
unidentified
Yeah, no, that wasn't my question, by the way.
I'd heard this theory about seven, eight years ago by a guy named John Loffler, who I know you're familiar with.
Indeed, it is true that Dr. Levengood has been carefully testing and declaring either as fake or legitimate crop circles based on cellular changes that he observes and documents in crop circles.
Well, only the obvious, I think, that they're again, they're generally without hard proof, but they're generally associated somehow with the UFO phenomenon because they seem to co-occur statistically.
But secondly, the other thing about them that I think is very provocative is that they seem to be orchestrated.
That is, they started relatively simply, and as the years have gone by, they continue in frequency, in their geographic dispersion, and also in the complexity of the designs.
As you stand back from the whole crop circle thing, you get the feeling that whatever is causing them is sort of like playing games.
I think that what Martin is talking about is what some people call the gap theory, the gap between verse 1 and verse 2 of Genesis.
And that may or may not be there, but in any case, even if it is, I don't attribute that to the dinosaurs.
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The dinosaurs, you know, I also believe that it was an archetypical description of creation, and that the creation process which the Elohim began, which are the deific beings which are spoken of before the word Jehovah is used in the word of God, these individuals began the recreation of the earth from the grip of the ice age.
In Glen Rose, Texas, you find dinosaur footprints and human footprints side by side that have been confirmed by geologists.
Plus, we have art all over planet Earth.
All of the Earth's continents have stories, legends, about the coexistence of gigantic reptilian creatures with man.
And then, as Chuck mentioned in the Bible, we see the behemoth and the Leviathan, clearly not anything that is alive today, dinosaur-like creatures that coexisted with Job.
Well, as a matter of curiosity, if the dinosaurs were made extinct by the KT event or by an eruption on the sun or whatever else you might imagine did it, how did we survive?
There's lots of ways to assume that the biblically described scenario might not happen, except I think it will.
And I think there will.
In fact, it's interesting, the book of Revelation does talk about hailstones of very, very large rocks, but obviously not like the kind in the movie or the kind of asteroids that some of the scientists are concerned about.
Well, that brings up the issue of earth changes that you spoke so much about in your book.
And indeed, the Bible speaks tremendously about earth changes.
We see that when Jesus spoke about the times before he would come, that the world would suffer tremendous earthquakes, that there would be pestilence, tremendous earth changes that you have documented, that we document.
But the problem I see is if the Bible is accurate prophecy, what we've gone through and what we are yet to go through, then there cannot be a big rock that comes along and ends it all, or the prophecy is wrong.
Jason, that's a good question because a part we obviously only know what we think we know is from these encounters.
They do seem to try to convey messages, and the messages are almost universally anti-biblical.
Most of the messages, either openly or subtly, attempt to undermine the biblical view.
Now, the question is, are they doing this, you know, are they just minions of some higher malevolent power?
Or one of the questions that's implied by your, one of the aspects that's implied by your question is, are they free agents or are they really somehow part of a broader system?
And no one really knows because we have rather scanty and highly garbled information about them through all these encounters.
But we do, it's interesting that even the secular scientists, and I'll use Jacques Boulet and J. Alan Hynek as perhaps the top examples, have come to the conclusion that they indulge in deceit.
And one of the things, one of the first questions that we wrestle with, and there's a lot of controversy about, is are they good guys and bad guys?
Are there some that are good and some that are bad?
You know, there's a lot of people that tend to look to them as the solution for all our world problems.
And tragically, there's little substantial evidence of that.
Quite the contrary.
We get the impression that they pose as benefactors, but in fact, carry messages of deceit.
So that's one of the reasons those of us that have a biblical view are so quick to tag them or recognize them as being malevolent, either overtly or covertly.
My question has to do with the age of the universe and evidences that I have been taught.
I don't know that they are factual, but one of them is that the Earth's rotation seems to be slowing down.
And scholars have supposedly done the math and said that if you calculate the speed the Earth would have been rotating at the time that evolution says we began, the Earth wouldn't have allowed life to begin, or if it began, it couldn't have survived.
Yeah, there's a number of evidences that the Earth and the universe are young.
In fact, Henry Morris documents over 80 different scientific methods that seem to indicate that the Earth and the universe are indeed 10,000 years old or less in his book Scientific Creationism.
And Dr. Kent Hoven, who was on the Art Dell Show a few months ago, I believe, spoke about some of those.
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Roy, that would lead me to the next one I was going to ask about, is the magnetic field of the earth and it's degrading.
Is that what's causing the effect, the negative effect on the human DNA?
Bill, there's even another compounding effect that's highly controversial, but let me just throw it out because it's a factor.
There is evidence that the speed of light itself is not a constant.
Classical physicists are all in an uproar over this, but Barry Setterfield in Australia and Trevor Norman and a Canadian scientist by the name of Alan Montgomery over the last decade or so have discovered that there's evidence that the speed of light is not a constant, but rather has been slowing down.
In fact, they even have got a 99% correlation factor to a cosecant squared curve.
The point is, is that that has pulled the rug out from under a number of pillars of physics conjectures, not the least of which is the red shift.
It turns out that William Tift in the University of Arizona has been collecting red shift data for 20 years.
He's discovered that the red shift is quantized, that the red shift, if it was really a Dopper effect, it would be, you'd find a continuum of values.
But it turns out it's quantized, which implies that the red shift, it actually, strangely enough, is a corroboration of the idea that the speed of light may be slowing down because of the speed of light's impact on subatomic behavior.
The net of all of this is that the concept of aging, these billions of years kind of things that we use in astronomy, have a slippery yardstick involved because the speed of light, if it has been changing, totally alters some of our perceptions, especially historically and astronomically.
And this is a huge controversy and it won't be settled in the near years because there's a lot of research going on, but there is evidence accumulating that the Setterfield-Norman hypothesis may prove to be correct.
And that changes our perception of the age of the universe.
It would move it to being much younger.
It has some other implications, too.
But you might keep your antenna up on this whole speed of light controversy.
And joining the show, I've only heard about the last hour, but I've noticed the show has an intellectual vent, and I know that your radio show is secular, and so I'm allowing for that.
But I feel there's something that needs to be said, and your guests can comment on it.
Concerning the great deception, my sense of that, based on the tone of all the scriptures and just my innate knowing as a Christian, is that the great deception, when it comes, will be intellectually unassailable.
And we will, as Christians, will have no way to defeat it using creation science arguments or any other sort of intellectual argument.
I'm glad you brought that up because that is exactly, that was where we started the show, the whole idea that there's a gigantic deception coming upon the planet Earth in general, and by the way, on the body of Christ in particular.
And that's why we wrote the book Alien Encounters.
And the intent of the book is to alert people to that there are pawns of a major deception, and we try to put a biblical root to the whole thing.
What does the creationist argument say against plate tectonics?
Plate tectonics being basically the theory of how the Earth expanded.
I'm sure you guys know about Pangea and how Africa and South America were once together and the sea has gradually, well, the Earth has gradually expanded between them.
In the Bible, in Genesis chapter 10, Art, it talks about in the days of Peleg, the earth was divided.
We're told prior to that that the earth was gathered all in one place.
So the notion that the landmass was all together in one place was written about in the Bible 3,500 years ago, and the fact that the landmass was separated was written about in Genesis 10, in the days of Peleg.
So it's actually a scientific discovery which was written about about 3,400 years before modern scientists discovered.
Faith is not the evidence, believing in spite of evidence.
Faith is committing in spite of the consequences.
And I think the idea that you have faith without evidence is an impetus to stupidity.
I think the kind of faith we're talking about is one that responds to the evidence in front of us, both in the creation and also in terms of the message that's been put into our laps called the Bible.
I would argue that when you look at a watch sitting on a beach, you would argue that a watch requires a watchmaker.
And the point in the Bible that Paul the Apostle made is that when you look around, when you see the evidence of design that far exceeds anything ever made by man, that it testifies that there was a mind behind it.
And that mind has revealed himself, we believe, in the Bible, foretold many of the things that are happening today, including the fact that interdimensional beings would come and perform a gigantic delusion in the end times.
And we believe the UFO alien phenomenon at least will play a part of that role.
I guess in a loose sort of way, that would be true, wouldn't it?
We're both in the same company.
Anyway, Excellence is Excellence.
All right, folks.
That's all for tonight.
Tomorrow night, unless something astronomical occurs, and you can never rule that out, we're going to have open lines.
And I know you've been looking forward to that, so whatever it is on your mind, get ready, because tomorrow night will be, in all probability, your opportunity.