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March 26, 1998 - Art Bell

02:47:13

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - David John Oates - Reverse Speech

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	Alright, um, Dan Rather announced, and I guess it is true, if Dan says it, it must be true, right?
	That the rotation of the Earth actually is slowing down due to the effects of El Nino.
	Now, I don't know what any of this means.
	The Earth's rotation is slowing down?
	Excuse me!
	That's what they say.
	It's slowing down.
	And I honestly don't know what it means.
	I've got a fax here from Richard Hoagland who says the rotation slowdown is not El Nino.
	It is directly due to hyper-dimensional physics.
	Of course it is.
	We'll explain during our segment later this morning.
	Okay.
	Well, it's occurring as El Nino is occurring.
	And then I also want to know if anybody can explain what it means that the Earth is slowing down.
	That's really weird.
	Really, really weird.
	The other item is, and I'll leave it up there for about another half hour, I have received in today's mail the Stephen Gibbs time machine.
	The coils, the, um, the giant electromagnets, the machine itself, I've got it all.
	The only question is now, oh, what to do?
	To try it?
	And already I get feedback.
	You're right.
	Don't do it!
	You have an obligation not to use the time machine until after the cruise.
	Especially since I just found out my mother and sister have signed on to go.
	That's one side of it.
	The other side is that it was, uh, that was, uh, from Elaine.
	And she's in Canada.
	She says, yeah, please take Ontario, uh, Montreal.
	And then this, Art, please try the time machine.
	Let's do it while you're on the air with the studio cam on, so you can describe to us what you're doing and what you're feeling, and we can see you.
	It'll make for great radio.
	From David, the opera singer in Las Vegas.
	So, on the heels of all this news about NASA and JPL, suddenly, And I'm telling you, I'm telling you, you can believe it.
	You are the ones who got that done.
	Now, what it means?
	It's like you're slowing down.
	Who knows?
	All right.
	Just a brief intro.
	I have to do this, and I know it's tiresome to those of you who know David Oates so well, but David John Oates discovered reverse speech.
	He is the father of reverse speech.
	It is a process.
	A very simple process in which you simply tape somebody speaking as I am now speaking and then you reverse it and you look for relevant, coherent words and or sentences in reverse.
	And these are from the other side of your brain and they definitely reflect the truth.
	That is what David says.
	If somebody is lying, it will be apparent they are lying in reverse.
	If they are telling the truth, they will be... whatever they say in reverse will also come out the same way, and the truth is revealed.
	David has done all his life speech research.
	He has a bit of a speech impediment, although lately it seems like it's been going away to me.
	And that started him into the research of speech and led to this whole thing.
	He has been suggested to be nominated for a Nobel Prize for reverse speech.
	Here is David John Oates.
	David, welcome.
	Thank you very much for having me back again, Al.
	I know that people should understand how much work you have to do To prepare for a night like tonight, when you're going to do Kathleen, Willie, Dr. Malin, Major Ed Dames, how many hours would go into it?
	Well, this particular one was monumental because Ed Dames was four hours of solid talk.
	At least a hundred hours' work.
	I did this one gradually over a period of three weeks.
	I was very intense in the last week as the show time came up.
	At least a hundred hours.
	It sounds fairly simple, just run a tape backwards and hear these phrases, but it's nowhere near that simple.
	They're very quick and sharp.
	It takes a lot of fine-tuning of your ears.
	Patients, to find them.
	Then I'm very strict about which ones I document.
	I would say probably only about 30 or 40% of the verses I actually document ever make it to air or to my website.
	I go through them one by one, checking off the syllable count and the consonants and the vowel sounds.
	I mean, sometimes when I do a broadcast, people will email me and say, well, David, you missed this reversal or that reversal.
	But the fact is, I did find it.
	I just didn't think it was good enough to get through.
	I'll tell you what.
	You know the fellow who wanted to challenge you, David?
	Yes.
	He has called the show, I don't know, two or three times since you were last on.
	Right.
	And I told him he had better send me some email with his phone number, and he hasn't done that.
	Right.
	But he did come on the air.
	With some audio from the Area 51 caller, which indicated, or would have led one to believe, if you used that reversal, that the Area 51 caller was faking it.
	You heard about that, I take it, and you went and researched the same stuff.
	Did you find that?
	Well, I didn't hear the actual segment itself.
	I heard that the reversal said fake.
	I'm faking it or whatever.
	That's what I heard.
	I went through my files actually today to find that particular reversal, and I did find a word which at first glance appeared to be fake. Um, and let you know,
	I've got this track up, so let's run it, but it's one of the ones that I rejected
	too. Um, yeah, okay. But let's hear it.
	Okay. Well, this is, this is a thought section where I found it. Um, and there's a lot of
	safe areas in this world that they could begin moving the population to now.
	Now actually I can't even remember the actual dialogue.
	It's something, uh, uh, I'm faking, or I'm with a fake, or... Okay, there we go.
	Let me hear that.
	I can't hear what he's saying.
	No, well, it's one of the ones I rejected.
	They are fake, but it sounds more like a C.
	You hear that?
	It almost sounded to me like they are faces or something.
	Right, which is why I reject that.
	Now, I'm not sure whether that's the one he was talking about.
	You've got the there, you've got the R, you've got the F-A, but then the C, but it's more of a C rather than a K, especially when you slow it down.
	Now, I must say that what he played sounded more definitive to me, and what I would like to do... He may have gone to a different section.
	This is the section that I...
	All right, look.
	I want this guy to listen.
	If he's out there tonight, and I know he is, email me right now with your phone number.
	We'll get you on the air.
	No problem.
	You've got to get me a phone number, though, because I didn't retain the one you sent so long ago, as I said, on the air.
	So get me that phone number.
	We'll get you on the air with David.
	The other thing I'd like to say about Area 51, Section 2, it's a tough one to really Pin down.
	I only found four reversals that I could quote.
	They appeared to me that he was telling the truth.
	Certainly some of the callers who called in afterwards felt that.
	But it was only four reversals that I thought I could quote.
	I was leaning towards him telling the truth, but you need more of that to really get a good argument down.
	All right, I'm going to assume, because it is certainly true, that there are a lot of new listeners who haven't heard you, so just indulge me.
	Everybody else who's heard it, bear with me.
	Let's do Neil Armstrong very quickly, and one or two baby things, and then we'll get on with Biz.
	Okay.
	This is to kind of calibrate everybody's ears, so you understand what reverse speech really is.
	Okay, this is Reverse Speech 101.
	What I'm going to do tonight, I'll play some of the classic ones first.
	I'm going to be telling you initially what you're hearing, but as the night goes on, I want to run a few by your heart and see if you can hear them without me telling you.
	That's right.
	You want to do that as well.
	That's right.
	People always wish for that.
	Let me just quickly cover the theory I'm proposing.
	I'm proposing that language is bi-level, forwards as well as backwards.
	It's the natural function of the human mind as the brain constructs the sounds of speech.
	It puts them together in such a way that two messages are communicated simultaneously, forwards conscious and backwards unconscious.
	When I talk about the unconscious, what does that mean?
	Does it mean another Part of the human mind does it mean the soul or the spirit
	doesn't mean we're tapping into Anything else I'm not too sure so I'm just proposing my
	basic theory is that language is by level for as well as backwards
	So let's um let's begin with the classic example Neil Armstrong was subjected the very first reversal I found
	in normal speech back in 1984 and here is And you run that in reverse and it's simply man will spacewalk
	and And you run that in reverse and it's simply man will spacewalk
	and We run that in reverse and it's simply man-wolf spacewalk.
	And here we go.
	Manual spacewalk.
	Yeah, let's run that forwards and backwards.
	Here it is forwards.
	And backwards.
	And a very, very clear example of reverse speed.
	Let's look at another classic This is the second example I ever found in speech.
	I found this the same day as Neil Armstrong, actually about an hour or so later, at the live commentary of the JFK assassination in Dallas, Texas.
	Several police officers are rushing up the hill at this time.
	Stand by.
	Just a moment please.
	Something has happened in the motorcade.
	Stand by please.
	Parkland Hospital, there has been a shooting.
	Parkland Hospital has been advised to stand by for a severe gunshot wound.
	Okay, you run this in reverse and right at the point where he realizes the shooting has occurred, you can hear the very clear phrase, he's shot bad, hold it, try and look up.
	And that's straight backwards.
	And just an exceptionally clear reversal I think.
	And here it is forward.
	And backwards.
	Very clear.
	Extremely clear.
	Now, let me throw you another one on speech and then we'll move on to kids.
	I'm often asked, OK, so this is here, what good is it?
	I mean, how can this benefit me?
	And I'm actually quite amazed when I hear that question because the opportunity to look inside your own mind and to see what is really going on is really quite exciting.
	And it helps me personally quite a lot in my own everyday life.
	I use this every single day.
	I use it with my clients.
	I have a therapeutic practice in San Diego.
	What it does to the therapeutic process is just amazing.
	It allows us direct access in.
	And this is a reversal that really illustrates how reverse speech can be used.
	And this is one of my own clients in my own office.
	And we're talking about the session we did last week, and he's telling me, David, you went and found the reversal that fit my situation.
	And you found it.
	You found the reversal that fit my situation.
	Now you know exactly where we are.
	OK, now I'm going to run.
	I don't think I've played this one on your program.
	No, you have not.
	I'm going to run this.
	I want you to listen to this and tell me what you hear, OK?
	All right.
	Run it at a couple of different speeds.
	It was over here last night.
	They will serve you with life, David.
	And what's more?
	They will serve you with life, David.
	Do you hear anything there?
	Yes, but I'm not certain yet.
	Okay.
	Give it to me at regular speed one more time.
	Okay, here it is one more time and then I'll tell you.
	They will serve you with life, David.
	What have we got?
	I don't want to... I don't have it down well enough.
	Okay.
	It simply says, they will serve you with life, David.
	You can hear my name on the end of the reversal.
	Now play it.
	Let me see if I hear it.
	Okay, here we go.
	All right, where I didn't get it, David, was the David.
	And even now, the David is not quite clear to me.
	Right.
	Well, his voice drops down at the end.
	You've got that classic sing-song tone of reversals beginning.
	They will serve you with life.
	And then his voice drops off down to the David.
	Let's do that at the slowest speed.
	Alright, I still maintain.
	I will serve you with life.
	Clear.
	David, not.
	Okay.
	Well, that's fine.
	I guess the point I'm saying is I'm illustrating that here we have reverse speech itself saying that it can help us with our life and I really do believe that.
	What reverse speech at its deepest level taps into what is commonly known as the collective unconscious, the storehouse of knowledge that we all have buried deep inside of us and just imagine the opportunity to touch that deeper All right, David, here's the only thing that I worry about.
	That either consciously or unconsciously, I mean, for example, you just told us you did a hundred hours of work to come up with the reversals we're going to hear tonight.
	Okay, a hundred hours, that's a long time.
	Now, if you go into a situation with a preconceived notion, and it may well be, and I've had a sense that you don't particularly like this president, Well, I have not liked him, that is correct.
	Okay, it comes through loud and clear.
	Now, could you take the Kathleen Willey material and come up either with a series of reversals that would show her to be absolutely telling the truth or find another series of reversals, she talked for a long time, that would show that she was a lying I do not believe that that is possible.
	I believe what is there is what is there.
	We've done this in class time and time and time again.
	We've had different students go out and analyse the same tape from a variety of cross sections of opinions and perspectives and come back with the same conclusions, the same analysis.
	I do agree that it is possible, like with any skill or any technique, to let your own bias come into your analysis.
	And I would be a fool to say that wasn't so.
	Okay, well how sure are you that that is not happening to you?
	Because of very strict research protocols that we have laid down that I teach in my training class.
	I teach my students and myself to analyse according to the phonetic sounds that we hear, the consonants and the vowels and the syllable count.
	Um, my students are taught not to listen to the track forwards first.
	We're only running the track in reverse, so we cannot hear the verbal content of what we are listening to.
	Well now, that is a pretty good control actually.
	Oh sure, yeah.
	For the first, probably the first, at least the first eight to nine years that I did this,
	I never listened to the forward dialogue, primarily because I was very much aware of
	the tendency to project into it.
	I think when I was personally confident that I had overcome that was when I started to
	hear all my own issues in reverse.
	When I first started doing my own reversals, I was not able to hear some of the more nasty,
	darker sides of my nature.
	Consciously, you don't want to hear that stuff.
	I swapped over about seven or eight years.
	seven or eight years in, I suddenly dropped down to a new layer and started to hear all
	these things on me that were really very devastating to me.
	Oh my God, I'm a rotten person.
	Listen to this.
	Right.
	Right.
	Sure.
	You show me someone who doesn't have a dark side to them.
	Oh, I know.
	We all do.
	There's no question about it.
	And I think one of the great things about reverse speech is if we have the courage to
	look at it, we can actually see our darker sides and come face to face with it and learn
	to work with it and have it be our friend rather than be our adversary.
	Give us a quick baby.
	OK, quick baby.
	Yeah, I love kids.
	Kids are marvellous.
	Let's begin with your favourite.
	And which... Oh, we just pulled up the wrong file.
	We'll do that again.
	I guess this is your favourite.
	This is me.
	I'm... This is actually my daughter at seven months of age.
	I'm chasing her around the room with a tape player.
	she suddenly sees this tape play and reaches out for it.
	That's simply what's that.
	Baby gibberish.
	And again.
	You hear that?
	Hit it again at regular speed.
	Okay, I mean, tell me how else you can hear this.
	I don't know how else you can hear this reversal.
	And again.
	No question about it.
	Absolutely no question about it.
	Extremely clear.
	And here's a very amusing one.
	This one here is a kid with a dirty diaper.
	One of my students found this in class.
	Yeah, real quick.
	Okay, this is a kid with a dirty diaper.
	Hey man, I got a diaper for you.
	A diaper?
	Yeah.
	And where the baby says, a diaper, backwards he says, help me out.
	And again.
	There we go.
	You can't miss it.
	Plus that wonderful ethereal sound with children and all.
	Wonderful.
	All right, David, look.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	Hold on.
	We'll be right back with something relevant for you.
	Her hair is hollow gold.
	Her lips sweet as a prize.
	Her hands are never cold.
	She's got better days, I should turn the music on.
	You won't have to think twice.
	She's pure as gold.
	Okay, here we go.
	David, are you there?
	Yes, I am, sir.
	All right.
	I have one Ken Reier from, I believe, Las Vegas.
	Ken, are you there?
	Hello?
	Oh, wait a minute.
	Here we go.
	Ken, are you there?
	Yes, I am.
	All right.
	Las Vegas, right?
	Yes, I am.
	Hot Talk 105.1.
	Oh, that's the way to do a promo.
	All right.
	What are the right words?
	Do you want to challenge David Oates, and if so, on what basis?
	Yes, well, before I say I want to challenge Mr. Oates, I want to say it is a pleasure, it is a tremendous pleasure to speak with Mr. Oates.
	I have no ill feelings about him.
	I think he's doing a good job, but I have to take him to task.
	Okay, on what?
	On the Area 51 call.
	Alright.
	Let's get a couple of things straight at the beginning here.
	Do you believe reverse speech is a real phenomenon?
	Absolutely.
	Not only is it a real phenomenon, but we have used it and I'd love to show you examples that even Dave himself has confirmed.
	Okay.
	So we have a difference of opinion over the analysis of Area 51 and not the validity of reverse speech itself.
	Yes.
	Is that correct?
	Yes.
	The difference is, oh yes, like night and day.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Well, you know, the Area 51 call was only a two-minute conversation anyway.
	You know, I tended to lean towards the fact that he wasn't deliberately lying and he was telling the truth.
	David, how many reversals did you find in that two minutes?
	I found four.
	You found four?
	Well, I found four reversals that I felt I could quote.
	I had people email me.
	I probably had more emails about this one than I did about any other.
	Bottom line is you found four?
	I found four that I could quote.
	All right.
	And Ken, Ken Reier, how many did you find?
	I found, I'd say, about 20.
	In the same two minute?
	In the same two minute.
	And, see, that's the difference between, see, that's the difference between I am ultra conservative in my documentation and I have Yes, and I have to be conservative.
	I'm the founder of this whole technology.
	If I do not maintain a very strict standard and strict guideline, then the foundation stones that I lay down will be very, very weak.
	And, you know, it's just the way it is.
	All right.
	In the interest of time, here's what I would like to do.
	Can you have a specific reversal that you played on my program once before about the Area 51 caller and faking it?
	Something about faking it, right?
	Yes, would you cue that one up please?
	Okay, I'll give the one about you, what you said.
	Okay, here we go. This is what you said and then I want to play one at the end too.
	Okay, well here we go.
	Well, let's begin by finding out whether you're using this line properly or not.
	Barely hear it.
	Okay, did you hear it?
	I can barely hear it.
	You need more audio, I can barely hear it.
	Oh boy, um... I asked you if you had your audio straight, remember?
	I had it, but there's no harm.
	I mean, I thought... Well, let me play a little bit.
	Can you raise the volume on the audio?
	Can you raise it on your end, Art?
	Well, I've got it up as high as I can go.
	It's your end where the problem is.
	You've got to either turn up the volume or hold the phone closer.
	I don't know what you're doing, so... Yeah, let's hear this one.
	Do you want me to run one?
	Um... Art?
	Yes?
	Hi.
	Whoa, wait.
	Can you... Are you using the line properly or not?
	Okay, where should you... Did you hear that?
	Yeah, it sounded at the wrong speed.
	Well, that's Dave's little machine I'm using right now.
	Okay, I'll let you... What I got right here is, unreal or not, now you have something to say, you're not playing it enough, I'm making this up.
	And listen carefully.
	Here we go.
	Weak.
	Alright, I think it's very weak.
	I heard a make-up of the, what could be heard as one, but was that on Art or was that on the caller?
	That reversal was on Art.
	I think it's a...
	Alright, I think it's very weak.
	I heard a make-up at the...
	Well, of course I heard one, but was that on Art or was that on the caller?
	That was...
	That reversal was on Art.
	Was that on me, caller?
	Yeah, that was on you.
	Ken, um... Well, that's baloney because I have no idea who the Area 51 caller is.
	So I couldn't have been making anything up.
	Okay, I got... Okay, I got... It was a very weak reversal, too.
	I got one on you, Art, when you said you don't have enough time to give us something quick.
	Look, are you just holding your phone near the speaker?
	I'm holding it close... David, hold on a moment, please.
	Ken, again, are you holding the phone near the speaker?
	I'm holding it as close as I can.
	Can you turn up the volume, then?
	Turn up the volume?
	I wish I could on this machine, on this reverse tape machine.
	I'll tell you what, could you call me?
	I'll see if the other telephone works.
	Could you call me at the, uh... Well, once again, this phone sounds great.
	Your voice is perfect.
	Okay.
	Because I thought, when I play to my colleague, he hears it loud and clear.
	It's got to be on your... No, it's not on my end.
	No, it's the reversal there.
	You're going to hear it.
	Everyone will hear it, you know.
	So go ahead and play another one.
	Just do the best you can, Ken.
	OK.
	Could you talk to Dave just for a sec while I cue one up, OK?
	See, you've got to be ready.
	Well, I was ready, but I was going to play it in succession.
	OK, here we go.
	This is with 100 out of 100.
	OK, here we go.
	You ready?
	Yes, I can see.
	OK, here we go.
	Here we go.
	Okay, what we're thinking of as aliens are, they're extra-dimensional beings that an earlier precursor of the space program made contact with.
	Uh, they are not what they claim to be.
	Okay, now if you play it backwards, it is so clear and you can't miss it.
	There were four reversals in there, okay?
	I'll play only one of them.
	Here, in reverse, he says, uh, hear me milk it and now I add it.
	Here we go.
	Huh?
	Okay, here we go.
	I'm supposed to pick up, but you forget the one I had to answer.
	Did you hear that?
	I sort of heard it, but it wasn't clear to me.
	Yeah, it's not a clear reversal.
	See, that's one of the reversals I would reject.
	I wouldn't quote that.
	I'm looking for very clear and concise sentences that are very plain and very obvious.
	Now, let's take an example.
	David, play one of the reversals that was clear.
	Okay, all right.
	Uh, well, let me pull up this one immediately.
	This is, um, this is right at the very end of the interview, and, uh, here it is.
	Forward.
	They want those major population centers wiped out so that the few that are left will be more easily controllable.
	And then the rest here says, feel the heat.
	Feel the heat.
	No, we didn't repeat.
	Okay.
	We didn't repeat.
	Dave?
	Yeah?
	Dave?
	No, no, no it isn't.
	It's not, it's not, uh, feel the heat, and it's... What?
	It, it... Okay, it's not feel the heat?
	Do you hear the ice in the ceiling?
	No, it's, it's heal the feet.
	It's heal the feet.
	As a matter of fact, if you play the feet... Alright, hold on, caller.
	Uh, Ken, hold on.
	Uh, play it again, and you're saying it's heal the feet.
	Yes.
	Play it.
	Heal the feet?
	Play it, David.
	Heal the feet.
	Heal the feet.
	You know... You know, it could be.
	David, it could be.
	I can hear that you might be able to hear an F on the H. Yeah.
	It could be, David.
	I don't know what to tell you.
	Do you hear it?
	Oh yeah, I can certainly hear what he's hearing, yeah.
	Well, let's look at another one here.
	All right.
	Okay, this is the one right at the very end.
	All right, Ken, hold on.
	You're not going anywhere.
	Relax.
	No, you're not here.
	This is the one right at the very end, which I thought was fascinating because someone said he called back a while ago.
	He was in a veterans hospital or something?
	Yeah, that's right.
	And this is where the satellite goes down, and he's got a little comment right at the end.
	And backwards, it's going to get a shot, or gonna get a shot, which I didn't know when I presented.
	Was that a bullet shot?
	Was that an inoculation?
	I mean, it's a touch of... It's a difficult one to present anyway.
	That's not one I would want to stake my reputation on, that whole Area 51 call.
	All right, Ken?
	Yeah, did you hear that?
	That's controversial.
	That's iffy.
	That's hard.
	That's not too easy.
	But the one that Dave played earlier, Heal the Feet?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	What it really says, and I can't play all of it on the air because it has profanity.
	It says, it's all B.F., heal the feet, throw me a loop, fell with it, away from me.
	And I'm going to play it for you and I'm going to let you listen.
	I'm just going to start where it says heal the feet, okay?
	Well, now wait a minute.
	You just said it had profanity in it.
	Well, I said I'm going to start where it says heal the feet.
	I'm going to get rid of the B.F.
	Oh, I see.
	Let's see.
	So that the few that are left will be more easily...
	Right.
	...eligible to settle recently.
	Did you hear that?
	I heard it, but it was not clear.
	Yeah, I'm hearing feel the heat or heal the feet.
	I mean, it's such a short phrase.
	It's really nothing.
	I would want to state my reputation on that one.
	See, what this highlights is this highlights the whole urgency that we need to have some serious accredited research into this.
	I think what I would love to do is get people like Ken and the thousands of other reverse speech people across the country.
	Let's get them all together in a consortium.
	Well, I think the most important point Ken has made so far is that it could have been as easily heal the feet, at least to my ear.
	So what we should do for the rest of this program is listen carefully to the consonant and the vowel sounds and I would like the listeners to do that.
	I'm the first person to admit that I do not have all the answers.
	And if some of my students are out there, they may even want to call in and let's talk about how we do this.
	Alright Ken, we don't have a lot of time left before the top of the hour.
	Ken, any other really important ones you want to lay on us?
	Well, yeah, well, what he says, what we're talking about, what we think about is aliens, Arthur.
	In reverse, and I played to you on your show, there are no aliens.
	I want to get through.
	It was clear as day.
	So we agree with the want to get through.
	Why don't I play that one?
	Do you have that one?
	Yeah, I got that one, I got that one handy right now.
	Let's have that one.
	Wait a minute, I was wondering if Ken also had it.
	Yeah, let me, yeah, I got it right, right here.
	Here we go.
	All right, let Ken go first.
	Okay, here we go.
	Okay, well, what we're thinking of as aliens aren't there.
	Okay, um... Perhaps there aren't any aliens that want to get through.
	Well, I mean, there's the one to get through.
	Let me run it here.
	Well, what he says, when he says they're extra-dimensional beings, what we're thinking about is aliens aren't there.
	The truth is, he says That's me BS-ing it.
	There are no aliens.
	I want to get through.
	Alright, Ken, hold on.
	Let's play the one to get through, and I'll tell you why I didn't document the word alien.
	That's clear.
	So we agree on that.
	Now I do not document the word alien in reverse because it's exactly the same forwards as well as backwards.
	You speak into a machine and say alien and it comes out as alien in reverse.
	So I avoid documenting that one.
	Plus there's some other phrases that what I call constant reversals.
	I will always reverse to say the same thing.
	There's about 50 of them.
	That we teach in class, and unless it's in a very concise, coherent sentence with direct complementarity, I avoid documenting them.
	And I deliberately didn't document Alien, in that particular one, because it was only a two-minute tape.
	And, you know, I want to hear a lot more than that, before I put my reputation on the line.
	Ken, your reversals finally did come through clear.
	I don't know what you did to fix it, but they were finally loud enough to hear.
	I want to thank you for being here, and... One more thing before you go.
	Yes, would you be interested in starting up a local chapter of Dorset in Las Vegas?
	What DORSA is, is the David Oates Reverse Speecher Alliance.
	It's a series of chat clubs set up across the United States that's been in formation for about a month now and it's a group of researchers just like yourself who are getting together to look at all this stuff and to answer all these questions.
	And if you want to, there's a phone number I can give you to call for the local DORSA chapter.
	Well actually the national co-coordinator is a chap called B.J.
	Ruchok.
	B-R-U-C-H-O-K.
	And you can call him at area code 360-876-6296.
	That's 360-876-6296.
	And see what I want to see happen is there's so many people like you who are really enthused and really excited about this.
	And currently all our efforts are fragmented.
	You're doing your thing, I'm doing my thing, Joe Blow's doing his.
	If we can all come together under one national organisation, DORSA, and let's pool our research results and resolve these questions.
	I mean, this is a very new field.
	Obviously there is something there.
	After all my work, it's 15 years, there's very strong and definitive evidence that this exists.
	But it's such a new field.
	There's so much research left to be done.
	Mark, I've got one last reversal.
	This is the one that I believe.
	This right here is... Just do it, Ken.
	Okay, here we go.
	Listen.
	Lots of safe areas in this world that they could begin moving the population to now aren't... What he actually said is They're all lies because they shield it up in their own room, room or womb, and they milk it.
	And here we go.
	Okay.
	They're all lies because they shield it up in their own room, room or womb, and they milk it.
	And here we go.
	Okay, that was very clear.
	Okay, well that's one of the ones that I quoted too, if you recall.
	That they're shooting off your room, I quoted that on your program.
	I don't hear the there's lies.
	I think that's unclear, based on my opinion.
	No see, I did think I heard that.
	And he also said, and they milk it.
	So you took, you omitted the beginning and the end.
	So in a way, you might have taken the reversal out of context.
	And I've had about 98% of the people that I talk to hear very much what I hear.
	And I mean, I believe, I can state with metaphysical servitude, that the Area 51 call is a fake.
	As a matter of fact, Art, on the second time a guy called, and when you said you didn't
	know my name, listen to it.
	No, Ken, we're out of time now.
	It's the top of the hour.
	I think you have made your point.
	Thank you.
	I'm going to have to take both of you off right now.
	We have got a break right here and we're already behind schedule.
	But I did want to get that done.
	And I think it points out a couple of really, really interesting things.
	And one of them was that when I was told what to listen to, I heard that.
	How about you all out there?
	More research.
	I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Now, back to David John Oates.
	David, we're way behind schedule here, but... Way behind!
	But I thought, you know, that was worth doing.
	Oh, sure.
	In the one instance, it was quite clear.
	I could as easily hear what he said as what you said.
	Well, you know, it's the whole problem of the illusion of sound, both forwards and backwards.
	Now, you can do the same thing with a section of forward speech.
	Listen to it over and over again, just one or two seconds, and your ears will switch and hear different things.
	We've validated that ourselves many times.
	And, point of fact, I'd like people at home to try that.
	And it's one of the reasons why I'm so conservative in my documentation.
	But on the other hand, with all the work he has done, he absolutely is a passionate believer
	in reverse speech.
	But it brings up what I was talking about, David, and that's agendas.
	In other words, if you decide somehow that this person is telling the truth, then even
	subconsciously, David, not consciously, I'm not accusing you of doing anything nefarious,
	but subconsciously, you are then, at some point, beginning to listen to things that
	validate what you have begun to conclude.
	It's a natural human thing.
	I believe you can be trained out of that.
	I believe that it's possible to be trained to the level where you are just documenting what is actually there.
	The syllables, the consonants, the vowel sounds.
	There are some phrases in reverse that you can hear two or three different ways.
	I do not document them.
	I completely skip them.
	Generally.
	Now, it's far better to have two or three analysts documenting the same tape at the same time, and that also reduces bias.
	And I noticed when I was doing the Ed Dames tape, he said the very similar thing about remote viewing.
	The more people he has doing it, the greater is the Absolutely correct.
	And that's the same with reverse speech, it's the same with any new discipline like this.
	Alright, let us drop it at this point and maybe our friend Ken or others will get a good system to play into the phone so we can be better judges.
	I would love to do that, I mean I would love to Get all these people together and let's pull our results.
	As I've said many times, I don't have all the answers, but I've got sufficient answers and sufficient evidence to say there is something to this.
	I agree with that.
	He agrees with it.
	So let us proceed then with what we're going to do.
	And the first would be Kathleen Willey, right?
	Yeah, we can... Okay.
	All right.
	Let's continue with Kathleen Willey.
	I actually had some reversal up to play, but we'll do that.
	All right.
	Okay.
	So, uh, Kathleen Willey was the woman on 60 Minutes who claimed that Bill Clinton had basically made a pass at her.
	And I analyzed this tape, and this is what I've come up with.
	And I'll just play the reversals one by one, and we will gradually draw a conclusion on this.
	Here we have the first one.
	How would you characterize, at that time, your relationship with the President?
	We were friends.
	We had the occasion to speak with him on election night.
	He had called us right after the election, called me, to thank us for our help.
	I would say good friends.
	Okay, now where she says I would say good friends, she says back with how it's tipped.
	Yes.
	Yes.
	And again.
	Now flipped, yes.
	Do you hear that?
	Yes, but I don't know what it means.
	No.
	It's now flipped.
	Let's do it again.
	Now flipped, yes.
	And again.
	Now flipped, yes.
	Now flipped, yes.
	But what does that mean?
	It's flipped around.
	We were good friends.
	You were after me.
	Now I'm after you.
	I see.
	That's the way I see that.
	The whole situation has flipped around.
	Okay, but that's somewhat metaphoric.
	Okay, let's do one.
	You see that as metaphoric?
	Sure.
	Huh, okay.
	I would have thought that was fairly straightforward.
	If she said something like, it's my turn for revenge, that would be quite direct.
	Right.
	But it is somewhat metaphoric, yeah.
	Okay.
	Well maybe I've been doing this for so long I'm so used to the metaphors and think of them as normal.
	So here we have, let's move on to the next one.
	And when I got home that afternoon, there was a phone call from Nancy Herrnreich asking me if I would come up and meet with her, that the President had an interest in my working someplace else other than correspondence.
	Now this one, I'm hearing the brothel in the power.
	The brothel in the power?
	The brothel in the power?
	And again.
	The brothel in the power?
	The brothel in the power?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I could hear that.
	I thought that was quite amusing when I found it.
	It's essentially, you know, well, there is a lot of, this, Kathleen Will is not the first woman who has come forward.
	And I thought that was very interesting.
	It was clear anyway.
	Okay, and then in this one here, she's talking about the walking down the hallway.
	And we started walking.
	Back down the hall towards the Oval Office, and he said, why don't you come in here into my study?
	We can talk better in here.
	And backwards, he says, they've seen us.
	They're full of eyes.
	In other words, people have, you know, they've been watched as they walk down.
	People are spying them with great care, I suspect.
	Okay.
	Yeah, that's very clear.
	Just do it at normal speed.
	Okay, all right.
	And now I'm kind of moving through these fairly quickly.
	Here we... because I'm anxious to get on to Malin and Dame, which is the real... Meat of everything, isn't it?
	The real meat of this whole broadcast tonight.
	And here she is talking about Bill Clinton in his office.
	They were facing each other.
	I stood and leaned.
	I was leaning against the door jamb.
	He was in the office.
	We were standing facing each other and I told him what had happened.
	And here she says, you're lusting yourself, you're natural.
	And I think she's referring to Bill Clinton here, standing in the, uh, standing in the office.
	I like myself, I'm natural.
	I like myself, I'm natural.
	Okay.
	I, I, give it to me at rigorous speed again, please.
	Okay, here we go.
	I like myself, I'm natural.
	Okay, um, I got you're lusting yourself very clearly.
	Right.
	I'm not sure about the rest.
	The natural will be ours rolled on the natural.
	Let's do it one more time.
	And again.
	Okay, I've got it.
	Okay, all right.
	Now, here's a reversal that really got quite through me when I found it, primarily because it's almost exactly the same word that Hillary Clinton used in an early reversal.
	So I want to play this one alongside of Hillary Clinton, and I'll let people decide for themselves.
	I want you to listen to the forward words, because there's completely different forward words on this one, and completely different forward words on Hillary Clinton.
	Okay.
	Do you think he betrayed your friendship?
	Absolutely.
	Especially something in my husband also.
	Now this one says her sore lips are hammering it, which I think is a sexual reference and I don't know who the her is.
	Her sore lips are hammering me.
	Her sore lips are hammering me.
	And again.
	Her sore lips are hammering me.
	Again, I would put that, I hear it clearly, but I would put that in the metaphoric category, wouldn't you?
	I didn't know what to make of it.
	When I first found it on Hillary Clinton, I assumed it referred to hammering the accusations home.
	Hillary's reversal was evil lips are hammering it.
	Hammering it is to drive a point home forcefully.
	Let's define what we mean by a metaphor, David, so we know what we're talking about here.
	This is not something that somebody would say As a directed comment in normal speech, is it?
	Correct.
	Reverse speech is a very unique language.
	Over 70-80% of all the language in reverse speech is metaphoric in language.
	And those metaphors can get very difficult to understand.
	That's really strange because I would never... In other words, my subconscious mind then is speaking in ways that my conscious mind I would never speak in, or even understand, and I have a hard time grasping that.
	Well, you go and think about some of your dreams.
	You think of dreams as so realistic daydreams that we have sometimes.
	The unconscious thinks and processes in a completely different fashion to the conscious mind, and part of my theory is that it thinks and functions in pictures and images, or metaphor and archetype.
	Carl Jung, a well-known European psychologist, spent his whole life studying the metaphors of the unconscious mind, claiming
	that on the unconscious world, which is 90% of all consciousness, we are thinking in a
	completely different fashion than conscious mind.
	And what reverse speech, I believe, is doing, it is seeing these unconscious pictures and
	translating them to words.
	I just think it's harder for the public to understand the relevance when it's metaphoric.
	When you hear Neil Armstrong say, man, hear man will spacewalk in reverse, that is so
	clear and so relevant to what is being said forward that there's no question about it.
	But when we get off into these other areas of anyway continue well I'll continue with the
	medical discussion on that no I'm a with their willies I'm okay well let's let's
	put the one on Hillary Clinton you know and maybe we could talk about
	metaphors more as we go out go along it's really been the fact of my career has
	been a whole metaphoric development of reverse speech and here's this
	one on Hillary Clinton I want to look at you know initially when this first started
	and I would be accused of something or my husband would be accused of
	something I would be really upset now this one says evil lips are hammering it
	Evil lips are hammering it.
	Evil lips are hammering it.
	Very clear.
	Now it really hit me because I've never heard the word hammering it in reverse ever.
	And here I have it twice now.
	You're right.
	One from Kathleen Willey, one from the First Lady.
	That's remarkable.
	Part of the things I've documented in reverse speech is what I call a peer group metaphor.
	Certain people who operate together tend to have the same metaphoric language in reverse speech.
	Like if you hang around with a group of Aussies, you'll hear the word mate all the time.
	But if you hang around with Americans, you'll hear buddy or Dude, and we all have our own unique language, which you can also see in reverse speech, but it's a metaphoric language.
	So, and here's this, let's use the one on Willie once again, her sore lips are hammering her.
	And again.
	Oops, one more time.
	And see, I think this is the unconscious mind thinking in a completely different way.
	And what do you think it's saying?
	What do I think that means?
	My opinion is it's referring to a sexual act.
	I think that there is a sexual metaphor running throughout the White House.
	So you think that's oral sex?
	That is the opinion I finally came to after receiving many emails.
	I first presented on your program as hammering the accusations home.
	But when you look at evil lips and sore lips, I mean, I'm not sure, unless he's referring to females who are hammering accusations home, like Linda Tripp, for example.
	When you're dealing with metaphors, it's Tough to tell, which is why I keep away from them in my public appearances.
	Now, when you're working with metaphors in the therapeutic context, you're in a whole different field altogether, because this is literally how human behavior and how the unconscious works, is through pictures and images, and a lot of the psychiatric trends Nowadays he's moving towards dealing with images and trance journeys and I'm sure you've had Robert Ghostwolf on several times.
	He would talk about the totem animals and our spirit beings and that is what I believe the metaphors are tapping into.
	They're tapping into this extra dimension or the soul or the sacred nature of our consciousness that we really don't have much understanding of in this physical world.
	All right, fair enough.
	We're way short on time, so if you have more relevant on Kathleen Willey, let's do them.
	I have a couple more that I think are fairly relevant.
	This one here really concerned me when I found it.
	She's talking about Bob Bennett talking to her about this.
	this. We were together at some point before a court hearing and he mentioned that he had
	just left the, he had just been at the White House and the President asked for me and told
	him just that he just thought the world of me. Now but that what she says, they could
	kill you and I think she's actually afraid and this is like, this is, well let's just
	do that.
	And I think she's a woman who is a... who is a... Right.
	She's talking about the brothel in the White House.
	She's talking about people who have seen her.
	She's talking about you're lusting yourself, talking to Bill Clinton.
	The sore lips are hammering it.
	She doesn't say my sore lips, it's her sore lips.
	They could kill you.
	This is a woman in fear, I suspect.
	And I think, let's just look at one more reversal and then we'll move on to...
	All right.
	Back now to David Oates, and we are going to complete the reversals on Major Ed Dames.
	Okay.
	We're going to pick this up.
	This one here, he's talking about a volcanic eruption.
	The next type of event, for instance, the next volcanic eruption in North America that limits the geographical area to North America, And we know that when we perceive, let's say, Mammoth Mountain blowing its top, that that is the next volcanic eruption.
	Now once again we have the word warn again.
	Hope you know I warn you.
	There he is.
	Hope you know I warn you.
	Hope you know I warn you, no problem.
	And this is what, I think the fourth or the third or fourth reversal I've played on the word warning.
	It was over and over and over throughout the entire tape.
	And like I said, I went out for gold this week.
	I'm going, okay.
	It's nothing like hearing reversals to make you go into action.
	I quite agree.
	Now this one here, we get down to the more Probably the side of remote viewing that he probably enjoys greatly, like with reverse speech.
	I enjoy working with my clients and actually helping people.
	And here he's talking about finding missing children, which is also a compassionate way to use the technology.
	Another one that's even more difficult to do is missing children.
	Almost always missing children are out there.
	They're street urchins or they're with a family member, but it's the ones where a child has been killed or sometimes tortured that are very difficult to... Okay, in fact what he says, they must feel it, that's when I grow.
	They must feel it, that's when I grow.
	That's when he gets his most satisfaction out of this.
	And again.
	Right.
	And you see his humanistic, emotional, compassionate side coming out of that reversal.
	Sure.
	That actually quite touched me when I found it.
	Now we're moving on to the subject of disease again.
	A very simple reversal on this section, straight to the point.
	Will not be able to develop vaccines.
	Antidotes, antibiotics in the case of bacterial infections, fast enough to be able to keep up with these diseases.
	They're going to really kill us off.
	The fact was very simply, go and get diseased.
	I'm not getting diseased.
	Boy, that's clear.
	Yeah, exactly clear.
	If nothing else, he is certainly very congruent about what he is saying.
	There's no cons going on here that I can see.
	Okay, we are moving on to talking about projecting the future of a corporation.
	That is one thing that we can't use that for.
	We cannot discern alphanumerics.
	Well, we can look, and we can perceive the trajectory and time of an enterprise, like a company or a corporation, what they're going to do.
	So, it can be used in a stock market.
	So, when he says it can be used in the stock market, a very congruent reversal, a back with the share broker in the market.
	Yeah, very straightforward reversal.
	Now the next one comes out of left field a little bit, getting back to the topic of guns and military.
	Reversal is Graham in the fight, first the gun.
	Graham, run for cover.
	And I think this is getting back to there is some calamity that is going to Scram in the fight, nurse the gun.
	I have found reversals on me and some of the people associated in my organization that
	are also of equal concern.
	Reversals say move, get away, run, escape.
	Now whether that is just a collective fear, I'm finding similar information in reverse
	speech to what he is saying in remote viewing.
	So anyway, scram in the fight, nurse the gun.
	Scram in the fight, nurse the gun.
	Scram in the fight.
	The f**k? No, this is just not...
	OK?
	Yes.
	OK, now we're getting on to, he's talking about a Stargate that he has found here, that he's remote-viewed with a, once again, a very simple reversal, and we are playing that right now.
	There is a thing, there is a, I'll call it a thing, for all intents and purposes, that's already in place and essentially has been waiting.
	Waiting for, um, waiting for someone to find it.
	And he referred to a Stargate, I think he said that, and then the back it says, that heals NASA.
	That heals NASA.
	Wow.
	That heals NASA.
	That heals NASA.
	Okay.
	So we're just looking at some very straightforward, simple reversals here.
	There's no doubt over what they mean.
	We just look at the complementarity.
	And he is a man of concern.
	This one here is a very, very strong reversal.
	He's talking about the same Sanctuary, places that are less affected by the Mad Max scenario.
	There are sanctuaries, evidently, that are places that will be less affected by the Mad Max scenario.
	I've talked about these before, too.
	And backwards, he says, damn the love, or it could be damned, the love.
	I was hearing this one both ways.
	They have to sell.
	In other words, get out.
	Forget your attachments.
	Move.
	Sell.
	Get to a safe place.
	And the love they have to sell.
	Okay?
	Yes.
	Speaks for itself, I think.
	And, uh, let's just look at the one, uh, final reversal here, um, that I found interesting.
	He was, he's theorizing about pre-existence.
	Okay?
	And, uh, here we go.
	We have this, this physical bicameral brain now.
	This mind that associates itself with this physical reality that we have.
	The reality that we are before we come into existence in this body is so very different.
	The milieu is so very different than this physical milieu.
	Now this one I'll just write.
	People talk about the reality is very different.
	He says, they knock you off, you cry.
	Whatever that means.
	They knock you off, you cry.
	Well, it'd be interesting to ask Ed Dames what he thinks that means, but again, that sounds somewhat metaphoric to me.
	Well, okay, I kind of thought it just meant exactly that.
	You know, we're sort of thrown into this world and we wake up crying and go, oh my gosh, where are we?
	Yeah, but see, that again...
	That seems to me to be an interpretation.
	David, go ahead and give out your information.
	I know you want to give out information to people on your new... What are they, clubs?
	Right, yes.
	It's called DAWTA, the David Oaks Reverse Speech Alliance.
	The National Chairman is a chap by the name of B.J.
	Bruchok, B-R-U-C-H-O-K.
	He's in Washington State.
	He has so far organized seven different chapters.
	These things are growing very, very fast.
	I'm stunned at the growth of this.
	And you can contact him by calling area code 360-876-6296.
	That's 360-876-6296.
	360-876-6296.
	That's 360-876-6296.
	Now the main reverse speech office, if you want to get hold of
	reversing machines to do this for yourself, we actually have a sale going on now.
	We've bought in some cheaper models.
	You can call the office at 1-800-669-5789.
	That's 1-800-669-5789.
	For those people waiting for our newsletter backtalk, it is in the printers now.
	We're going to be mailing that out next week.
	I'm going to be in Denver this weekend at the Artville Chat Club.
	I'll be lecturing there on Saturday night.
	For more information you can call AeroCode 303-695-6621.
	303 695 6621 303 695 6621
	303-695-6621.
	The main reverse speech number once again is 1800 669 5789 I think that a reverse speech is real.
	at the top of that that's a lot
	great david thank you very much thank you very much and take care are you
	will tell you what i think i think
	a reverse speech uh...
	and i have formed that opinion based on many many shows that we have done
	a weird direct reversal
	In other words, congruent reversals that seem to either validate what the person says or will show it to be a lie.
	But I think that although there may be something, I cannot deny it, there may be something, very much something, to these metaphoric reversals.
	I think that metaphors, even in the When they're said in, you know, completely forward speech, are interpretive.
	And I think that David tends to get in trouble when he uses them in a public forum, whether it would be on my program, or it would be in front of a chat club, or it would be in front of any group that is hearing reverse speech for the first, second, third, or even fourth time.
	The metaphors are a real problem and do The credibility of reverse speech harm.
	That's my take on it, and I'm just, you know, I'm a neophyte.
	As you, I have heard quite a bit of reverse speech, and in the first many programs we did, when we stayed away from metaphors, and I have consistently advised David for the sake of credibility to stay away from metaphors, the interpretive I think it went very well, but I think when you get into a lot of these metaphoric statements that can mean this or can mean that, you get into trouble.
	That's my view.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Well, I guess not.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	No, you're not.
	A wild card line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	I can't hear you, dear.
	Oh, I see what's wrong.
	I'm sorry.
	Hold on a moment.
	I see why this isn't working.
	Let me clear this line.
	Let me go back to this line.
	Hello there.
	Hello?
	Yes.
	Yes, this is Paula in Kansas City.
	Yes, Paula.
	And I wanted to speak up in defense of the metaphors for a minute because I have a David Oakes machine.
	All right.
	And I bought a metaphor dictionary to go with mine.
	And what I have seen is that everybody is using these same metaphors in reverse speech.
	And the thing about it is it proves that everyone is communicating In this other language, all the time, or we wouldn't all have... Oh, I have to look.
	I think that's... Listen to me.
	Let me get rid of the echo here.
	I think that is absolutely correct.
	My only point is that to the uninitiated, the new listener, reverse speech is difficult enough, at best, as you begin to absorb what's going on.
	And when you get into the metaphors, you make it doubly and triply difficult Uh, for the newbie to even begin to grasp what they're hearing.
	Well, I agree with you on that.
	I just think, and what I don't think has been mentioned by David Oates, or brought up, is the fact that, like, we have a whole bunch of metaphors we use in forward speech, and they're also used in reverse, but there's this whole other set.
	And then, like you said, there's certain groups have kind of their own inside metaphors, and the fact that Like, even the ones that everybody uses, like this wolf he mentions quite often.
	Wolf is frequent.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	The fact that the whole general public is showing up and everybody's reverse speech, it doesn't matter who you put in there and reverse speech, some common ones keep showing up.
	What could be said about the metaphors would just be the fact that everybody's using them proves that we are all communicating on this other level or we wouldn't all have the same other vocabulary.
	I agree.
	See what I'm saying?
	Yes, I do.
	That might, every now and then when a metaphor comes in, that might help the understanding of it a little bit, and I do agree that though some of them are harder to determine now.
	On that Area 51 call, I had a bunch of reversals, more than David had, but you know, I can understand maybe why he didn't put some of them on the air, and maybe he didn't find some of the same ones, but I had heel with V instead of heel V feet or whatever, but I had the word heel, you know.
	And I also had one that said, now weep with Harry.
	And he was crying.
	And now weep with Harry, it's something about the looseness of spiritual life.
	And there was quite a few that, you know, that might have been something to interpret too, so that might not be one that he wanted to put on the air.
	Exactly.
	See what I mean?
	But the fact, now weep with Harry, he was crying, and I think that made his very hard to reverse with the fact that he was crying and you know
	when people crying they're kind of clip their words off. On the other side of
	the coin David says that very emotional moments yield the best and clearest
	reversals. Well they well if they are if your forward speeches like when he
	was saying the fire the house is on fire he said that clearly but when
	person's crying they're kind of you know their voice jumps up and down. Yeah it's
	true all right thank you very much it's true. Again I'm just I guess I'm just
	saying that in the early shows that we did with David the reversals were not
	metaphoric at all and they were clear they were easy to understand and they
	related directly to what was being said forward.
	For example, the Cydonia reversal.
	Yes, oh, I love that one.
	You bet I did.
	It was very clear to me, and it demonstrated I guess to an invite, that reverse speech, that there really is something to it.
	But, when you get down to these interpretive statements, I think people are more easily able to say, what a bunch of BS, and just mentally reject it.
	That's all I'm saying.
	East of the Rockies, you're on air.
	Hi Art, how are you today?
	Fine.
	I hope that we can fit all this in, because it's getting to the bottom of the hour.
	Right.
	It's a very powerful show tonight.
	It's fantastic.
	My name is John, and I'm listening from Marshall, Michigan.
	Okay.
	So I have to listen to Outlying, and you've baited it out on me, but I've got you on a bunch of different locations, and I'm all over with the radio.
	Okay.
	I'm wondering about the Courtney Brown affair.
	Oh my God, that's ancient now, but what are you wondering?
	Has anybody tried to reverse the speech on that?
	Oh yes, we did that long ago.
	Oh, I missed out on it.
	Long ago.
	I really feel bad about missing out on that.
	I was wondering about, since I have the tape, I was wondering about getting a machine and then trying to do it myself.
	Do you think it's a difficult thing to learn how to do?
	No.
	Yes and no.
	In other words, if you're looking for straight reversals that are congruent with what's being said forward, I think you will find them.
	And I think you cannot do it with a computer.
	You've got to find them with a tape machine.
	Okay.
	And then once you've found them, you can then put the forward part and the reverse part on a computer, if you wish, and it makes it easy to play, as David does, on the air.
	Do you have any conscious memory of how that ended up turning out, the reversals on that?
	It was so long ago.
	Did it work out towards his benefit or against his benefit?
	Pretty much against.
	Okay, because I was noticing on these tapes, I agree.
	It showed Ed Dames to be a congruent, and I'm not surprised.
	Now, we could have a big argument about whether Ed Dames and remote viewing is a valid discipline.
	Alright, thanks Art, appreciate it.
	Thank you sir and take care.
	I agree it showed Ed Dames to be a congruent and I'm not surprised.
	Now we could have a big argument about whether Ed Dames and remote viewing is a valid discipline.
	If you want to have a big argument about that you can, but I think that it showed what I
	thought all along and that is Ed Dames is passionate about what he's saying and believes
	what he's saying Thank you.
	Thank you.
	And I think that's what came through in the reversals, clearly came through.
	There was an awful lot of warning in there, and that's what Ed Dames does.
	His nickname is Dr. Doom.
	He knows that.
	So, I'm not surprised that it came out the way it did.
	Now, whether remote viewing is an accurate discipline or not, people will argue about that, I suppose, through the incongruity.
	But surely, I think it came through clearly that Ed Dames believes what he's saying.
	We'll be right back.
	Mail them and get Richard on the line.
	Yes, indeed.
	stuff this is this this is not a part of reverse beach I particularly enjoy is
	this uncovering of stuff like this. Did you say anything to her? I remember saying to her
	I'm saying you are just not going to believe this. And backwards she says but
	we messed up. But we messed up. But we messed up. And again.
	But we messed up.
	And she's talking about talking to Linda Tripp.
	Yeah, very clear.
	Very clear.
	And you know, I just think things didn't go the way they wanted it to go.
	She's a woman clearly afraid.
	I think she's telling a true story.
	And you can go to my website and see the rest of the Oh, that's right.
	Now we should tell everybody, uh, you have a very extensive website.
	If you will go to, um, my website, folks, right now and just scroll on down to, um...
	David John Oates' name, and click on that.
	You will go to his website, and there you can listen to audio clips that he has prepared.
	You probably by now have hundreds or thousands of them up there?
	Oh, there's probably a couple thousand clips up there at least.
	It's a very extensive website.
	Some of those reversals are exceptionally clear.
	A lot of my research information is covered there.
	Some of the tests that I've done.
	If you want to do it yourself, there's a product section there.
	We've actually got a special on machines now.
	Or you can call the office at 1-800-669-5789.
	800-669-5789 for more information.
	And just have a tour through the website.
	And there you go.
	All right.
	David, hold on.
	for more information and have a tour through the website and there you go.
	All right, David, hold on. We're going to take a break here at the bottom of the hour.
	We are going to connect with Richard Hoagland if everything goes as planned.
	And when we come back, the reversals on Dr. Malin.
	The man, the contractor, who is in charge of the photography.
	And we've had an amazing statement from JPL today that they are going to go after the Mars face.
	It is a two-page document in which they say they're bowing in effect of public pressure and they're going after it soon.
	We'll be right back.
	Alright, Richard Hoagland is here with us now, and in the interest of time I am going
	to ask Richard C. Hoagland to be brief, which is like asking the president to become a monk,
	but I'm going to try it.
	Richard, there are some remarkable, remarkable things going on today.
	Number one, the big release from JPL entitled Mars Global Surveyor to attempt imaging of features of public interest.
	So they actually come right out and say, virtually that public pressure is there and they're going to do it.
	It's quite an announcement.
	What do you make of it?
	Well, it's even better than that because if you go to the web and you look at the codes, you know how various web codes are written in HTML language?
	Sure.
	The actual file for this press release is cydonia.html.
	No kidding.
	So although they kind of try to obscure it in the first paragraph, they do say that they will attempt Take several images of features of public interest ranging from the Mars Pathfinder and Viking mission landing sites to the Cydonia region.
	Now, what's really interesting at the bottom of this release, down at the bottom of the first page, it says, The Mars Pathfinder and Viking landers are very small targets to image, even at the closest distance possible, because they are the smallest objects that the camera can see.
	The Cydonia features, on the other hand, are hundreds to thousands of times larger and the camera should be able to capture some of the
	features in that area.
	Yes, I'm reading along with you.
	There has been a 180 degree tone difference.
	Remember how Dr. Malin, who we'll get to in a few moments here,
	has been saying for years how incredibly impossibly, it is stupidly difficult it is for him to take a picture of
	the face?
	It'll be on the tape, yes, of course.
	Oh, he has gone over and over and over again how impossible and how the chances are very small.
	It's a postage stamp sized thing and he's moving so fast and he can't really target and he can't really scan the camera.
	Suddenly this release comes out and says that these things are a thousand times bigger than the Viking Lander which he's going to try to take pictures of and undoubtedly they should be able to capture some of the features of the area.
	There has been, at some level, a political sea state change.
	Yeah, I agree with you.
	And I think you're absolutely right in crediting this audience, the 20 million people who are listening to us right now tonight, with being a major part of that sea state.
	Alright, do you take this sea change at face value?
	Well, if it wasn't for David Oates, I would.
	David, by the way, good morning.
	David, are you there?
	Yeah, I'm here.
	I'm good.
	When David called me up a couple days ago, of course, you had scheduled this show with David as your sole guest tonight.
	Right.
	About a week ago.
	We did not know until a few hours ago that NASA was going to release today on the JPL website, Across the World, this announcement.
	And it was because of the timing and because of David's interesting reversals on Malin That he asked you if I could do the show with him, in terms of interpretation.
	Makes sense.
	This has all converged together.
	And what was the rebuttal?
	I plied you yes today, Richard, about going public.
	If it weren't for the Malin reversals, I would take this press release as evidence that maybe, just maybe, we were winning.
	But when you hear what Dr. Malin is secretly thinking, and planning, and contemplating, and hiding, I frankly think that we're being given another shaggy dog story and as the next few minutes progresses, people across America are going to hear for themselves what kind of a double agenda is behind this mission.
	I guess that's your cue, David.
	Okay, well I'm going to go through these reversals one by one.
	I have about 10 of them to play and I'm going to get Richard to help me with interpretation.
	Go right ahead.
	Because he's far more knowledgeable than I am.
	He's the first one.
	When the spacecraft is in its far or most of the orbit, it's pointed towards the sun.
	What we do is we try to take a picture as the spacecraft goes from that Uh, orientation where the camera's looking backwards to the orientation where the spacecraft is looking at the sun.
	Okay, talking about the process of taking the pictures.
	Now backwards on this one, the reversal is her ship will get the dust.
	Her ship will get the dust.
	Now, I don't know what ship he's talking about.
	We had the ship on the, uh, several ships on the NASA, uh, uh, public, uh, on the reversal we did on Ray Savage and Don Vallard, um, all the other way around.
	And, uh, they talked about ships in the Cydonia.
	I haven't heard any of this, and I'm going to make a guess right now, uh, that they're talking about a dust storm.
	Well, we have a reversal up there coming up about a storm.
	Her ship will get the dust.
	Richard?
	Uh, let's just take that at face value and move on quickly.
	There are much more interesting things coming up.
	During the heating, the camera is not looking at looking away from the direction of motion, so it doesn't feel the full force of the atmospheric friction.
	And reverse on this one is a ship's carry survivor.
	And there's the ship once again.
	And again. And again. Okay? Yes, oh yes. Yep, that's exactly a clear vessel. Now, let me pause here.
	This reference to Her is very interesting for reversals that we'll get to in a couple of minutes.
	The big question is, who is the Her that Malin is referring to?
	Her is not NASA.
	Her is not the United States of America.
	Her is not Lady Liberty.
	Who is her?
	Let's keep on going, shall we?
	Okay.
	But I can't be any more specific than that, any more than you could, you know, predict what the stock market's going to be in three years.
	Now, this gets down to your storm comment, Art.
	This reversal says, between the dome and the land, they give us the storm we need.
	Now, who is they?
	What is the dome and the land that they are talking about?
	Let's run this and then we'll discuss it.
	Between Jerome and Edome, the Guinness is Jerome and Edome.
	Between Jerome and Edome, the Guinness is Jerome and Edome.
	And again.
	And again.
	Very clear.
	Very clear reversal.
	I totally agree with that.
	And I was stunned with the clarity on some of these reversals.
	Alright, Richard?
	Well again, I think it's important, and I want to refer back to some comments on the Area 51 call from your colleague, Ken.
	That in any one reversal, you can debate certain parameters, you can debate certain intonations.
	What's important is, to me, the total context, the gestalt.
	In other words, if you take a long interview and you get lots of reversals, what you can do is kind of get a consensus, a kind of an overview of the veracity of the backward information compared to the forward information.
	And then you may even be able to get specific meanings that are references that you understand.
	It's very important to listen carefully when David says that reverse speech is highly metaphorical.
	You and I have had our interesting differences regarding symbolism.
	The world we are living in where we're dealing with reverse speech is mostly symbolism.
	Right.
	What's astonishing And this is where we're going to get to in the next couple of minutes, is that the symbolism, the gestalt of the symbolism involved in Malin's subconscious, as he was talking to Linda, is part and parcel of the incredible Egyptian symbolism I have found with the computer going back 30 years in the landings and liftoffs and configurations.
	Alright, so then Richard, who do you then conclude is her?
	Do you have, David, the reference to the wolf serves the throne?
	Yes, I do.
	All right.
	Play the forward one on that, and then we'll play the reversal.
	I actually wasn't going to play that one, because I thought it was too metaphoric.
	So there we go.
	No, let's go for it.
	But Rich is quite right.
	You cannot understand reverse speech fully with understanding the entire metaphoric context of it.
	And this is primarily the major topic of my classes, is understanding the metaphors of the unconscious.
	That occurs from about...
	8 to about 20 minutes after the closest approach to the planet.
	Now, the latitude at which that heating pulse occurred, that pass through the atmosphere occurs, started out about 35 degrees north latitude and has been migrating northward very slowly.
	So all he's doing is just casually describing the mission.
	And now we hear this exceptionally clear reversal and I'll play the reversal then I'll give my brief interpretation of it then Rich is going to come in and say something too.
	This reversal very clearly says the wolf serves the throne.
	Sorry, coming up.
	Your throw.
	And again.
	Okay.
	Do you hear that?
	Yep.
	Now, wolf is a very common metaphor in reverse speech.
	It refers to the part of us that is the hunter and the protector.
	That is our prime motivator.
	That motivating force behind behavior.
	Throne is where we seat ourselves.
	Throne is our importance, our ego.
	Now, so on that note, Richard, you take over because we discussed this privately.
	Well, when David played this one for me, I had one of those aha experiences in reference to the two previous ones.
	Her ships will get the dust.
	Yes.
	And her ships carry survivor.
	Yes.
	In the Egyptian hieroglyphs, And this has been known since Champollion, you know, deciphered them.
	There is a throne symbol.
	The throne symbol stands for the goddess Isis.
	And all Egyptologists to this day can't understand why this powerful goddess, one of the central figures of the whole Egyptian pantheon, is replicated or depicted as a throne, as a seat, as a chair, alright?
	Now, I think this gets very close to David and his interpretation, because the throne of goddesshood is the throne of power, of might, of dispensation, of all favors, that kind of thing.
	There is far more behind this Mars mission than merely a scientific expedition.
	All the reversals that I have analyzed on this describe an undercount of a spiritual quest.
	Coming back home, so to speak.
	And let me play a... Wait a minute, David.
	So she then, or her, is a goddess.
	Is that correct, Richard?
	There was a specific reference in the Pathfinder reversals that we did on the press conferences, David.
	Yes.
	To the Goddess.
	Are you going to meet the Goddess?
	Do you have that one handy?
	Do you accept the Goddess, eh?
	Do you have that one handy?
	I can pull that up real quick and then I want to play the really, we've got two very significant reversals to play after that.
	Let me, I'm pulling this one up right now.
	I was hoping for a yes or no answer, Richard.
	Alright, this is a reversal Richard's talking about.
	Let's just run a small section forward.
	That contains a set of basically discrete motion commands.
	Now this is a very unusual reversal in a scientific context.
	Did you accept the goddess?
	This is back in the... Did you accept the goddess?
	Did you accept the goddess?
	Let me run you another reversal now on Malin.
	That's a very, very similar theme and I'm just talking a little bit while I pull this one up.
	The overall thing with all these Mars missions that I have done is this undercard of a spiritual mission in this whole thing, and this reversal is remarkable.
	Uh, well, there's two things.
	The thing I normally tell them is, I'll certainly give it a try, but I can't guarantee that I'm going to get a picture of it.
	Now, that reversal says, go in and meet your new father in the light.
	Notice the whole religious, spiritual context behind this.
	Go in and meet your new father in the light.
	Is that a human father in the light?
	Is that a human father in the light?
	You got that?
	I got it alright.
	I'm just not as good at connecting the metaphors as apparently the two of you are.
	Richard... Okay, let me stop here for a second.
	In forward speech, he's talking about he's going to try to get a picture of the face.
	But he cannot guarantee he will get a picture.
	Right.
	In reverse, his unconscious subconscious is saying, gonna meet your new father in the light.
	The face on Mars to Mike Malin represents the father, the godhead, Osiris, etc.
	There is a consistent theme here going back 30 years, which we've proven with a computer, this Osiris Sirius Isis business that we find over and over and over again.
	What we're finding in the reversal, which of course, when I started looking at the computer constellation configurations, I had no idea we'd ever have this kind of data available.
	We find that in their deepest, innermost emotions and feelings and needs, these priests, this priesthood, this inner elect select sect, is carrying out what they deem to be a religious ritual of pursuing the Godhead with our money and keeping us, the unwashed, the profane, the ones that are out of the in crowd, from knowing what they're doing.
	Hold it, everybody.
	David, does your analysis of these metaphors agree with that?
	It absolutely agrees with that.
	There is this whole spiritual mission to going back to Mars.
	For some reason, the NASA people are thinking that this is a spiritual Pilgrimage to return home.
	This is a reversal I found on Ray Savage actually describing the space.
	I'll just play the reversal.
	He says, that's divine.
	That's divine.
	Remember this one I played?
	That's divine.
	I do.
	And I played that one.
	That's divine.
	And this was followed immediately by we're riding a shielded vessel.
	We're riding a shielded vessel.
	And they're this whole thing of a mission.
	They're on this spiritual quest.
	I was stunned when I found these reversals, you know, and I didn't even want to play these.
	This is right out of left field from what my whole research is heading into and, you know, when I was at Richard's conference in Pasadena, I reluctantly started playing these ones and Richard's getting light bulbs going off everywhere and it's connecting with all these other data.
	What I want to know is, Why is there the spiritual reason for going back to Mars?
	I think though that Richard's metaphoric light bulbs in this area go off easier than mine.
	Well, you see, it's a whole specialized field.
	But that's also true when Richard and I are discussing mythical and metaphoric things, even in forward speech, so I'm not surprised.
	Nevertheless, I do follow what you two are saying.
	David, what's very impressive to me is, before you and I ever met, before we had our first conversation, before Art ever sent you that first NASA interview, I was looking in the computer at the landing and liftoff times of various planetary missions, and what we found, and I've had aerospace experts and celestial mechanics totally verify, is that the, quote, coincidences of key religious alignments of these constellations which were central to the ancient religious Egyptian calendar thousands of years ago are in Egypt.
	We're showing up with incredible repetition and incredible coincidence over and over and over again.
	All right, Richard, answer.
	The most non-religious activity of the 20th century going into space.
	I've got your answer time now.
	Is it the goddess?
	Is that her?
	I believe so, yes.
	Thank you, David.
	Richard?
	I didn't understand the question.
	Is the her the goddess?
	Yeah, her as the goddess is ISIS.
	Which was Sirius, the star Sirius, which was at 19.5 degrees when Armstrong and Aldrin landed on the moon on July 20th 1969.
	Let me give you a simple down-to-earth analogy of a metaphor That everyone could understand.
	If I'm to say to you, I will stab you in the back, does that mean I'm going to get a knife and stick it in?
	Not necessarily, but in these modern days it could.
	Well the point I'm making is that is a metaphoric statement that we are very used to in our Stab you in the back.
	No question about it.
	Stab you in the back.
	The world in which you live is full of metaphors and we understand that.
	We were brought up with it.
	We were raised with it.
	It's part of language.
	Now the unconscious thinks differently than the conscious and it has a different metaphoric structure and a different meaning to these metaphors and that's where reverse speech is coming from and what reverse speech is saying is that there is a whole spiritual side to us that we are We are spiritual beings.
	We are connected to the Creator.
	Believe that.
	Probes and taps into some of these mysteries in a way that has not been done ever.
	But a lot of the dialogue sounds like it's right out of Romeo and Juliet.
	That is because you are just being hearing it for the first time.
	It's a learning curve.
	Let's start with reverse speech 101 and move up and move up.
	I understand.
	Richard, break time.
	Everybody stand by.
	The clock will not allow us to go on.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Well from the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	And now I'm bringing these two gentlemen back and I want to read one quick fact which I
	agree with completely.
	And it is as follows, and this really goes, Richard, to you and to David, with respect to metaphoric analysis.
	It's Daryl in Los Angeles who says, with all due respect, I would advise David Oates, whose work I generally and greatly admire, that when it comes to interpretations presented to the millions who are listening, Stick with the concrete and avoid the results of analysis that focus on the abstract.
	I would keep the latter in the classroom and the lab for now.
	And I think that's really good advice, but you proceed.
	Well, with all due respect, I totally disagree.
	We are surrounded, Art, by metaphor.
	Life is built on metaphor.
	Great art, great poetry.
	You were extolling the virtues of Jim Cameron's epic Titanic.
	It is multiple levels.
	Great art always has multiple levels of metaphor and symbolic meaning.
	But the problem with it is, Richard, it's interpretive.
	Well, it's interpretive until you get to an a-ha.
	We are two lines away from an a-ha, all right?
	All right.
	Let's see if everybody goes a-ha the same way, all right?
	Predictive model.
	Okay, let's see.
	Richard, stop.
	Let's see if we all get to the a-ha moment.
	Well, let me lay it out.
	All right.
	The predictive model that I've been working on is that NASA's hidden agenda is an ancient, sacred Egyptian religion.
	Right.
	And that we are looking at a bunch of priests.
	Masquerading as scientists, spending our money to do something that they think is sacred and crucial and important that we're not supposed to be included in.
	Right.
	Namely, finding God, or finding the reality of a civilization out there which somehow was connected to God.
	Our origins.
	Our origins, and that it's intricately linked with this Egyptian cosmology, which has come down to us over the last hundred years in book after book after book after book, all you have to do is read.
	That's the model.
	Here comes the aha, OK?
	OK.
	David, do the one about Satellite 7.
	OK, I had the father of light queued up again, so let's just go to that one.
	And when I finish talking to Richard, before we get to Ed Dames, I just want to briefly have a final word on this, on the whole metaphor, and how I think that we can help solve this.
	This is clearly a big issue in reverse speech that needs to be resolved.
	All right, here we go, the next one.
	They're concerned and they're upset that it's not going to go.
	All I can say is, I'm sorry.
	That's the reality of the thing.
	Now that's a verse that says, hear the lie with Satellite 7.
	You know I hear with Satellite 7.
	You know I hear with Satellite 7.
	And again.
	You know I hear with Satellite 7.
	Alright, I hear hear the lie, and I hear Satellite 7, and I hear a little something in the middle that I can't quite make out.
	And let's do it again.
	You know I hear with Satellite 7.
	Do you know why you were suddenly suspended?
	Well, I'm...
	You know I hear with...
	Yes.
	What?
	What are you hearing?
	It's with...
	Okay, this is not metaphorical at all.
	Huh?
	This is very literal.
	All right.
	A few minutes ago, Ron Brown and I, Ron Brown, Ron Nix and I, were having a conversation regarding
	some of these, because I faxed them over to him.
	And I had him take out a pad and to begin to note down all of the NASA missions to Mars,
	okay?
	Yes.
	The first one, 65, was Mariner 4, then at 69, Mariner 6 and 7.
	In 76, Vikings 1 and 2.
	In 71, I missed Mariner 9.
	Alright?
	And then in 93, we had Mars Orbiter, which blew up.
	And then, now we have Mars Surveyor.
	Alright?
	Satellite 7 was Mars Observer.
	The spacecraft that disappeared.
	Here, the lie was Satellite 7.
	In other words, it didn't disappear.
	And the possibility exists, and this is my greatest apprehension, that the photographs they're going to show us in the next couple of weeks of Cydonia are photographs they actually took five years ago with Mars Observer Satellite 7, and they've had five years with supercomputer technology Okay, let me now prove my point.
	That is your interpretation of the meaning of Satellite 7.
	on the face on Mars dissolve into a bunch of random rocks when they give us a super,
	super close-up.
	Okay, let me now prove my point.
	That is your interpretation of the meaning of Satellite 7.
	David, are you able to also, with as much conviction, tell me and tell the audience
	that those statements mean what Richard says they mean?
	Oh boy.
	I did not know what Satellite 7 meant and I rang Richard to ask him for his opinion.
	I stand by the reversal.
	I accept Richard's judgement.
	There you go.
	How's that?
	Okay.
	I do not know what Satellite 7 means completely.
	I do believe that going to meet your new father in the light, another verse I'm going to play now is referring to a spiritual mission.
	Clearly, whatever Satellite 7 is, there is a lie.
	The key word is lie and deception.
	Well, Art, it is interestingly coincidental that the seventh mission to Mars was Mars Observer.
	The one where I had four JPL engineers call me after our press conference and tell me it was not dead.
	It was alive and well, and NASA had taken its stealth.
	So now, in 1998, Malin says backwards, here's the lie with Satellite 7, which segues into the next reversal, which is remarkable in what it tells us the real agenda is.
	Okay, let's move on.
	For example, there are a lot of people who are interested in whether or not, you know, Life on planets around other solar systems, other stars and so on.
	Well... Okay, so you're saying that people are wondering whether there's life on other stars and so forth.
	Yes.
	Reversal, through that night, the source of the Nile was sent out.
	This reversal will rock my socks off when I think. Alright let's hear it. And again.
	You got that?
	Yes, clearly.
	I could hear it.
	Exactly clear reversal.
	Now, let me make a comment.
	What do these things mean?
	Well, Richard... Let me make a comment.
	Okay.
	In our work, 15 years of me and my colleagues attempting to get NASA to fess up and be honest and level with us as to what they found, we have developed an extraordinary model that links the monuments of Mars With the monuments of ancient Egypt.
	But there's some kind of connection.
	Yes, I know.
	Okay.
	Malin is saying, through that night, the source of the Nile was sent out.
	Meaning, remember it follows on the Here the Lie with Satellite 7.
	When the images came down in 93 from this spacecraft that we thought disappeared, Through that night, the source of the Nile was sent out.
	It was sent out from Mars as pictures received here.
	The source of the Nile.
	The Nile is a metaphor for the Egyptian civilization art.
	Not a big leap, just a little leap, okay?
	It's like when you say the White House.
	You don't mean the damn building, you mean the president, you mean the administration.
	That's right.
	Alright.
	The source of the Nile, the source of that incredible thing they're worshipping, the basis of the Egyptian cosmology, the Egyptian civilization, they revere, was sent out from Mars from the lie of Satellite 7, which was Mars Observer.
	Okay, look, I can't...
	Uh, deny the possibility that it may be exactly as you suggest, Richard, but what I hear here is metaphoric statements that David has, uh, pulled in reverse of being fed to somebody who lives his life in metaphors.
	I do not live my life in metaphors.
	I live my life in numbers.
	But with metaphoric meanings.
	Mark, I am a generalist.
	I followed this yellow brick road many, many years ago, wherever it would lead.
	And it had led me, because of the computer and the configurations, this ancient Egyptian cosmology, in all of the NASA liftoffs and landings and missions.
	You've got to say, wait a minute, this signal is trying to tell us something.
	When you hear in reverse the unconscious, the subconscious of these major players, Vallard and Savage a year ago, Malin now, saying essentially the same things in the same context.
	Yeah, I'm with you.
	At very different levels of the agency.
	No, I'm with you.
	It's the gestalt.
	And when you say certain, no, I am not certain.
	Please do not interpret my enthusiasm for this as certainty.
	What it is is apprehension that we're going to be given the shaft once again because, if anything, what this is revealing is that the Dr. Malan who's, you know, talking to Linda in forward speech about numbers and orbits and, you know, missed distances, is not the same Malan who secretly is worshipping a goddess and thinks he's going to go meet the Father in the light when he flies over the face of Cydonia.
	Okay.
	May I make some statements here?
	Sure.
	Okay.
	Let me say this.
	There is a consistent theme through the reversals, all the reversals I have done on all the Mars missions.
	Of that there's no doubt.
	I've got hundreds of reversals on the Mars missions and they all have this undercurrent of this Egyptian metaphoric theme to them.
	I don't understand what that means.
	I don't understand.
	I draw on Richard because he's the only person I know who knows about Mars.
	I certainly don't.
	I stand by reverse speech.
	I stand by the fact that these phrases do exist.
	I stand by the fact that there is a spiritual side to the whole Mars mission.
	Now when we move on the reversal of Ed Daines, you will see another consistent theme that
	is totally different to the Mars mission.
	All right, but did anybody out there see conspiracy theory with Mel Gibson?
	Oh Oh yeah, I saw that.
	To me, some of this is a little like asking Mel Gibson if he thinks there was a conspiracy in the Kennedy assassination.
	Right.
	I mean, what kind of answer are you going to get?
	Art, Arthur, my dear friend.
	Yes?
	We have a Dr. Malan. He's discussing taking pictures of Mars.
	And he says in reverse, through the night, the source of the Nile was sent out?
	I mean, it's like Ray Vallard and Savage talking about, you know, we're involved with Cydonia backward, and you saying the other night that a thousand monkeys could type for a thousand years and never produce anything.
	Can I stand by that statement?
	I stand by it.
	In other words, I'm asking you... Richard, as a matter of fact, would you please cue that one up for me, David?
	Which one are we talking about?
	Vallard, a statement about Cydonia.
	Oh, sure.
	That's the kind of thing I can sink my teeth into.
	And let's see what the audience thinks.
	Yeah, we'll just keep on talking a little bit.
	You've got a little bit on the hop.
	Oh, wrong file.
	I mean, that's an amazing re-reverse.
	It is.
	I mean, Cydonia is something that simply, as I said, 100,000 monkeys, whatever, would not come up with in a gazillion years.
	And this is a word I have never ever found before.
	In reverse speech.
	I agree with that.
	All right, so give us the forward and reverse.
	Here we go.
	Shortly after it got there, when the mapping began that year, Viking Orbiter 1 I'll send back the picture, and somebody noticed it on there, and it's kind of a neat thing.
	It's kind of a neat thing, the way the face and mouth and back was very clearly, we're involved with Cydonia.
	We're involved with Cydonia.
	Now that's what causes my lightbulb to go off.
	Right.
	Well, the difference is, you're dealing with technicians, PR people, versus a priest, a high priest.
	Malin isn't somebody they just brought in off the street.
	Malin has been involved in this all his professional life, going back through Caltech with other people that he was undergraduate student under, etc, etc.
	So the high priest is giving us Shakespeare?
	No, he is giving us ancient Egyptian religion.
	Ah, why?
	That was a metaphor, Richard.
	Shakespeare, in other words, it's more like Julius Caesar.
	These reverse metaphors, I think, are very difficult for the public to grasp.
	As difficult as when you come on the air, Richard, and talk about the Egyptian connection.
	You know, it would be interesting in your polling facility if you had activated it earlier tonight to see what the actual numbers are.
	You know why we didn't?
	I just got a call from Keith.
	We found that people have discovered how to load the ballot box.
	Uh-oh.
	Yeah, I know.
	Well, let me go back to my point here.
	I am discussing Mars, pictures, verifying a possible ancient complex on another planet, right?
	Right.
	We're reversing the guy who's now got the power to take the pictures.
	And we have a press release that next week they're going to start this process.
	In the middle of this, he says the source of the Nile was sent out.
	What in the world is he doing thinking about the Nile?
	I don't know.
	But you can't just ignore it.
	I'm not.
	You can't just say it doesn't mean anything.
	I'm not doing that either.
	When you say you don't know, it must be taken in the context of all the other data, the celestial material, the other references to the goddess, her ships, you know.
	Now, go to the next one, alright?
	David?
	Which one are we talking about?
	I actually have to target the pictures.
	The one after the Nile.
	Oh, okay, right.
	Just give me a little bit of time.
	These are in two different sub-subdirectories, they are, okay.
	Alright.
	This is the one that gives me a little hope that we've got something to work with here.
	Oh, now, this is the one that we, I actually rang you about, and I told Richard on the phone yesterday.
	They're going to make some sort of announcement.
	They're going to go public with this, OK?
	This is the one you're talking about, right?
	Yep, that's the one.
	OK, this is before the announcement was made today.
	You mean that I got the picture?
	You see, I actually have to target the picture.
	So, I say, hey look, it looks like the ground track's going over the face.
	Okay, put that target in, okay?
	And I got two reversals.
	First one says they shifted the rocket.
	I'm sorry, I deleted that one.
	We're going to do with this one.
	I found, who heard they shifted the rocket by the way?
	You didn't hear it because it wasn't there.
	Okay, this one, the ref actually says, I found the vessel, better go public.
	I hear that.
	I found the vessel, we better go public.
	Absolutely, and I rang Richard yesterday and I said, they're going to go public.
	They're thinking about it, it's on their minds, something's going to happen.
	Now it is interesting you should say that because earlier today I received a call from a certain Washington lobbyists.
	We all know and love.
	Who said, guess what Art, I'm firmly believing that NASA is getting ready for disclosure with regard to Mars.
	And Richard, you don't believe that, do you?
	No, I don't, and I'll tell you why.
	But this reversal, which is an insight into Malin's own thinking.
	Remember, Malin is the guy who's been the designated hot seat.
	Everyone you've had on the show, from McDaniel to Carlotto, to myself, to the NASA people, in that secret meeting back in November, they're all saying that basically he's on his own.
	That he gets to decide what pictures get taken and whether they get made public.
	Is that correct?
	Yep.
	And that he's kind of a rogue elephant, they can't control him, etc, etc?
	Yes.
	The way I read that is, Michael Malin, if he's not careful, is being set up for an incredible fall.
	And here's why.
	If Malin, high priest of this whatever religion he's practicing, decides to keep the Father in the Light secret, the photos of Cydonia, and the other guys in the system decide that politically it's time to come clean, he is a designated fall guy.
	He is the bad guy.
	They can say he stole the pictures, he kept them secret, we didn't tell us, we found out.
	You know, in other words, they turn him in to state's evidence and become the good guys.
	This reversal indicates to me that because of some things that are going on that he is seeing in the pictures that he's taken of Mars already, that he is beginning to wonder if maybe he'd not better go public after all.
	Well, I must admit, we've got to wrap this up, but I've got to admit, the statement from NASA is a remarkable shock of a surprise that they are going to actively go after and think they can get, as you read to us, Richard, from this, they think they can get the face now.
	Suddenly, no problem, it's big, we'll get it.
	That's a shock.
	Well, remember, there's a lot of other objects and they have the strip capability of laying down a hundred-mile strip of pictures a mile wide.
	I know, but when Neyland was on, it was like 1 in 50 million or something.
	And now all of a sudden, you're from... State change.
	You're absolutely right.
	Yeah.
	So, I think that is significant.
	About the rest of it, I don't know.
	I don't know.
	But, Richard, I want to thank you for being here.
	And... Well, let me leave people with an action item, alright?
	Real quick.
	You should not not fax Ted Koppel, Dan Golan, and John Holliman.
	Let them know you want to encourage this in the best possible light.
	You want the right pictures, the real pictures, the accurate pictures, and no funny business.
	It's only because you've been attentive that I think we're getting the politics change that we are.
	So, Art, if you don't have the fax numbers, I will fax them to you to give out after the break.
	All right, well, Richard, I think we did achieve what we were trying to achieve.
	This statement proves it.
	Well, it's not proven, but it's moving in the right direction.
	Richard, you and I will do a separate program, and we'll attack that soon, all right?
	All right.
	All right, good.
	That's Richard C. Hoagland, and those are the Malin reversals.
	Really interesting.
	Coming up, Major Ed Dames.
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Well, alright, let us get right into it, David.
	We have reversals of the last appearance of Major Ed Dames on my program, Let's Rock.
	Okay, let us go right into this.
	I want to start off a little bit out of context first, but I think it's probably a reversal to set the theme for the entire trend.
	Alright.
	He's talking about crops deteriorating, pathogens killing off plant life, okay?
	Right.
	Something that would eventually spread and kill all green growing things.
	We don't know if it's all green growing things.
	We know it doesn't affect algae.
	That's why... Oh, that's right.
	That's right.
	It doesn't affect algae, that plant life.
	Now, backwards he says, very simply, decide to warn you.
	Decide to warn you.
	Decide ...documenting it.
	It was probably the most common word of all.
	There are certain things that he believes in very, very, very strongly.
	And the disease, the plant pathogens, are certainly way up there.
	But there are also some reversals that cause me some questions.
	So let's move on to one of this one now.
	Now we're going to start running it in order, OK?
	Actually, SciTech is working on it now, but we did not have that capability in 1991.
	If we did, we would have used it, obviously.
	That would be a nifty tool.
	But we didn't have that.
	He's actually talking about the psychokinesis, the ability to not only remote view, but to also affect as well.
	And he's saying, you know, we didn't have that ability back then, but we're working on it now.
	In reverse, we have an extremely clear reversal that says defend that naval weapon.
	Defend that naval weapon.
	Defend that naval weapon?
	Exactly correct.
	Very clear.
	Very, very clear.
	Extremely clear reversal.
	Now, I don't know what involvement Ed Dames, I don't know Ed Dames, I don't know what involvement he has with the Army or the Navy, but there are reversals throughout this that talk about military involvement and military activity that is current and ongoing.
	Um, so, uh, we will, uh, look at some of those.
	Um, I want to, uh, look at, this is the next one in order that I'm playing.
	Evolve these techniques to the point where, where they are infallible.
	When used by a team, a professional team.
	That's a very strong word.
	Infallible.
	100% accuracy rate when you do it as a full project.
	That's right.
	When professionals at SciTech do this as a full project.
	So he's saying, Forrest, that this is infallible when used by a full team.
	But backwards, he says, there's doubt.
	Then there's a little gap followed by offer the city and that's a slightly metaphoric statement.
	City is a common word in reverse speech referring to civilization.
	He has just released his modules on a public basis and I think that there is some doubt.
	Particularly when he talks about the modules there is incongruity there.
	I don't think that they are as infallible as he would like them to believe.
	You got that?
	I hear the city very clearly.
	OK, we'll do it one more time.
	No?
	Well, again, I'm sorry, the city is what I get.
	OK, alright, well, that's what I heard.
	There's doubt off of the city.
	I thought that was exceptionally clear.
	I really have a problem with these metaphors.
	I'm sorry.
	I'm just going to skip all the metaphors.
	I left a couple of them in.
	There's a couple I still want to play.
	But defend that naval weapon.
	Very clear reversal.
	I decide to warn you.
	Here we have another warning reversal.
	Also, the weather results, as we know, are going to break the bank in many states.
	Economies statewide are going to be...
	Going critical quite soon.
	Thank you.
	Talking about economies going critical quite soon.
	We've got two reversals here.
	The first one says, I warn you.
	I warn you.
	Clear as can be.
	Followed by, I've seen the market.
	I've seen the market.
	I've seen the market.
	And again.
	I've seen the market.
	I've seen the market.
	Yep.
	I presume referring to the stock market.
	You know what I did, Art?
	I went out and got some gold this week after doing a head day in the river.
	I go, alright, that's it.
	That's very interesting.
	That's very interesting.
	Yeah, if nothing else, he certainly believes in this.
	And he has high congruity over the weather, the disease.
	Now that's not a comment on whether or not remote viewing is real.
	But it certainly is a comment saying that Ed Dames believes it's completely real.
	Absolutely correct.
	And I'll tell you something very else that was interesting I noted too.
	There are certain words in reverse speech that will always reverse to say the same thing.
	I call these constant reversals.
	I tend not to document them.
	I'm only looking for the ones that are not constant.
	But whenever he said remote viewing, that was reversed to I inform you.
	Hmm.
	Which is very interesting.
	And the same thing with reverse speech.
	The actual, the phrase reverse speech, well actually let's look at speech reversals.
	The phrase speech reversal always reverses to soul server.
	It is serving our soul.
	And remote viewing always reversed to I inform you, which I thought was in Very interesting.
	Now this one, I originally thought it was metaphoric, but I'm actually, I think it means
	exactly what it means.
	And I'll play it and you decide for yourself.
	Well I mentioned about the winds about a year ago, that the jet streams are becoming erratic,
	starting to slip and slide and drop down, and that the winds would be very high.
	And backwards he says, evil snow with black wood.
	And I actually saw a scene of devastation.
	Contaminated snow, a charred remain.
	OK?
	Evil snow with black wood.
	And again.
	Got it.
	No problem.
	Okay.
	And I just saw that as not metaphoric.
	Finally, I almost, that was one of the ones that almost knocked out.
	And I need to say, too, that he had probably of all your guests I've done on your program, Ed Dame had the highest proportion of metaphor.
	I would say probably 60, 70% of his reversals were metaphoric in nature, referring to how I, what I believe is the metaphoric structures of the unconscious Bill, as he has tapped into, to do his remote viewing.
	And once again, I don't know Ed Dames, one of my students trained under him, a chap by the name of Jack Johnson, who I know has listened to this program tonight, and I did ring Jack a couple of times while I was doing these to try to get some insight.
	Insight, right.
	Into what was going on.
	In light, here's another interesting one.
	In light, well... No, we won't do that.
	I was going to do a metaphor.
	Metaphor?
	We'll skip it.
	Listen, David.
	Again, I think the reason I'm saying this to you is because I struggle with the metaphors.
	Right.
	And I think the majority of the public, particularly those relatively new to reverse speech, also struggle with the metaphor.
	So, in getting the message of reverse speech out, it doesn't serve well.
	Well, I think I've tried to follow that with your program.
	I stick primarily to the first level of reversals.
	I must admit, I've wanted to get into it sometimes.
	I get a little bit frustrated.
	I understand.
	You know, it took me years to grasp the metaphors, and I left them alone.
	I started doing this in 84, and I started finding metaphors pretty well from the first time I started, but I didn't even begin to mess with them until 88, 89.
	Well, then based on that, you've got to understand how the public is going to receive them.
	I understand that.
	The most important thing for me right now is to get the actual science of reverse speech itself I have got sufficient evidence here to get this accepted.
	After the break, I want to announce again the formation of a research group that we have formed right across the United States.
	Very exciting development in the whole river.
	Anyway, let's see how many we can squeeze in on Ed Deems.
	Okay, let's go.
	Martian invaders.
	National Defense does not include that kind of thing.
	And it is an answer that they did not want to hear.
	It was at that juncture, in 1985, that I became intensely interested in following up on this.
	He's talking about UFOs, National Defense did not want us to, did not want to get involved in this, and Reversal says they make you doubt it, referring to the UFO phenomenon.
	They make you doubt it?
	I mean, you doubt it.
	OK?
	I mean, you doubt it.
	Very clearly, they make you doubt it.
	Which is a whole public demeanor and approach, at least on the official level, to the UFO field.
	Right.
	OK.
	Now, here is a reversal that really, I'm still scratching my head over.
	It appears to be totally incongruent with what he's saying forward.
	And I'm just going to run it and let people decipher themselves.
	Maybe Ed could even refact you and explain it.
	Let me tell you what SITEX stands for.
	There is a, in the Cydonia region, there is one specific feature that we have remote viewed time and time again.
	We were so astounded by it.
	And again, don't forget that these are very interesting to us.
	I'm sorry, he's talking about the remote viewing Cydonia.
	That was, he says, two reversals.
	Receive the big fund, making it up, followed by deny source.
	Very strange reversal.
	Okay?
	Making it up?
	Let's do it again.
	You got that?
	Let's do it one more time.
	And, uh, that was a concerning reversal to me.
	Um, I do not know what that refers to.
	Okay?
	Um, and maybe he does.
	Okay, I hear it.
	Let's do it one more time.
	And that was a concerning reversal to me.
	I do not know what that refers to.
	And maybe he does.
	And now this next reversal is obviously some military involvement.
	He's theorizing that it's... Let me stop you for a second.
	Receiving the Big Fund, making it up, that could refer to two things.
	That could either be He's receiving money for the videotapes he's selling.
	That's true.
	And he's making them up.
	That's true.
	Or it could be, um, receive the money and I'm making the whole thing up.
	Or, you know, faking the whole thing or whatever, however you want to attach it.
	That is true.
	You could look at that either way.
	That is true.
	It's a denied source on the end that concerns me.
	On the other hand, I've seen his videotapes.
	I have them.
	And they are Extremely well produced, and I've never had anybody who's received the tapes call or fax me and suggest that they think that it's made up stuff.
	In other words, they are instructional indeed in the ways of remote viewing.
	Right.
	And clearly he's very congruent in his warnings about the climatic and monetary collapse and the weather conditions which we discussed.
	But I can see what people would imagine either way on that one.
	All right.
	Okay, now this one here, he's talking about if aliens, I think it was aliens, and I just don't have the full contents of this, if they were to go to the United Nations, you know, they would wear a suit and tie, at least learn how to use the devices.
	It's some conspiratorial statement, I believe.
	And my nation was admitted to the United Nations.
	I would wear a suit and a tie, or at least Learn how to use the devices that were present in the UN, the microphones and other things.
	Okay, and backwards he says, Alpha, Gunmen, are we in it?
	All for combino unit.
	Now is it all for?
	Well, I heard Alpha, let's listen for all four.
	Alpha, Gunmen, are we in it?
	All for Gunman, are we in it?
	All for Gunman, are we in it?
	All right, Gunman, are we in it, is clear.
	I'm not sure about the first word.
	Okay, that's fine.
	I'm kind of curious whether everybody else is hearing this as I'm hearing it, or whether it's just me.
	Right.
	I heard a clear offer, if it's all four.
	See, this comes down to the very clear need for total accuracy in this.
	And I am so conservative in my documentation.
	I mean, I really, really am.
	I must throw out at least 60-70% of the reversals that I initially hear.
	I want to make absolutely sure that what I hear, I can at least state my reputation on.
	You're here.
	I mean, it's such a new field and the skepticism out there is not as high as it was when I first went public, but it's still there.
	And it's got to be approached with great caution and respect.
	And I admonish anyone out there practicing reverse speech, please exercise significant precaution in documentation.
	Make sure you follow the protocol down to the letter.
	And I don't know what else to say.
	Okay, let's move on.
	This is another one we're pulling up, and he's talking about a lethal event in 1999.
	Well, the kill shot that SciTech is describing, a very lethal event, we think the best that we can do, as remote viewers, is in 1999.
	We're saying spring of 99.
	A precursor that we were talking about.
	Right.
	We were saying that something may happen as early as December and that was a coronal, there was a coronal mass ejection in December.
	Yes.
	Now, here we have another reference to Navy.
	You remember the reversal before to send that naval weapon?
	Correct.
	He's talking about the event in 1999.
	Here he says, Navy will seal the river.
	No, VORC will be right back.
	No, VORC will be right back.
	And there it is.
	And there's one more.
	He says, a message sailor or a message sealer?
	I couldn't determine which one it was.
	Send it by hand.
	Now see, this is like the offer gunman.
	Are we in it?
	There's something going on that he's involved in that he's not telling, I believe.
	Okay, here we go.
	A message sailor or a message sealer?
	Send it by hand.
	A message sailor.
	Send it by hand.
	A message sailor.
	Send it by hand.
	Okay.
	Yep.
	Very clear.
	Some of the COVID operations going on.
	Clearly, military-type reversals, which we've never seen on your program before.
	And I point out the spiritual-type reversals on the Mars missions.
	I point out the sexual-type reversals on the Clinton staff.
	You remember the Satanic Robe reversals on Harlot?
	Yes.
	And now we have a military form, a military man with military terms.
	I come back to the complementarity.
	These things are complementary.
	They relate.
	Now, the next reversal is probably the most significant of all in the whole transcript.
	And I actually got this starred.
	I don't know.
	There are so many unknowns and so many things that we're perceiving and associated with that particular event in the future where we perceive ourselves there, but we don't know what's going on.
	It's beyond our ken.
	He's talking about some event back there that they don't really know what's going on.
	And reverse, they have a very clear reversal.
	Now I know it's the one.
	And I put my little brackets next to it.
	We're all in trouble.
	That was my own personal note.
	But now I know it's the one.
	This is the key event.
	Now I know it's the one.
	My God, that's clear.
	Yeah, exceptionally clear.
	And he's a very, he has a strong conviction over that one.
	OK?
	Now, this next... How are we going for time?
	I think there's a few more I want to get through here that are very important.
	Well, we don't have a lot of time, so hit us with what's important.
	Okay, well, this is... Are we going to make it through it?
	I remember the last program you said, finally, you understood the nature of the discontinuity that you saw.
	That was the solar event that we're perceiving in the future, that annihilates a lot of life on Earth, yes.
	Okay, now this is actually a metaphor, but it's a very obvious metaphor.
	He's talking about annihilation.
	I think this is very important to play.
	Quickly.
	He says, never a loss at Eve's soul.
	Eve is new life, new beginning.
	We will not lose through this.
	We will begin again.
	Never a loss at Eve's soul.
	Yes, I certainly hear it, David, but again, it's a metaphor, and I, for some reason, it's just me, I guess.
	I have a problem.
	Anyway, stay right where you are.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	All right.
	Back now to David Oates, and we are going to complete the reversals on Major Ed Dames.
	Okay.
	We're going to pick this up.
	This one here, he's talking about a volcanic eruption.
	The next type of event, for instance, the next volcanic eruption in North America, that limits the geographical area to North America, And we know that when we perceive, let's say, Mammoth Mountain blowing its top, that that is the next volcanic eruption.
	Now, once again, we have the word warn.
	Again, hope you know I warn you.
	Hope you know I warn you.
	Hope you know I warn you.
	There he is.
	Hope you know I warn you.
	Hope you know I warn you, no problem.
	And this is what, I think the fourth or the third or fourth reversal I've played on the word warning.
	It was over and over and over throughout the entire tape.
	And like I said, I went out for gold this week.
	I'm going, okay.
	It's nothing like hearing reversals to make you spur into action.
	I quite agree.
	Now this one here, we get down to the more Probably the side of remote viewing that he probably enjoys greatly, like with reverse speech.
	I enjoy working with my clients and actually helping people.
	And here he's talking about finding missing children, which is also a compassionate way to use the technology.
	Another one that's even more difficult to do is missing children.
	Almost always missing children are out there.
	They're street urchins or they're with a family member, but it's the ones where a child has been killed or sometimes tortured that are very difficult to... Okay, and back what he says, they must feel it, that's when I grow.
	They must feel it, that's when I grow.
	That's when he gets his most satisfaction out of this.
	Right.
	And you see his humanistic, emotional, compassionate side coming out of that reversal.
	Sure.
	That actually quite touched me when I found it.
	Now we're moving on to the subject of disease again.
	A very simple reversal on this section, straight to the point.
	Will not be able to develop vaccines.
	Boy, that's clear.
	antibiotics in the case of bacterial infections fast enough to be able to keep up with these
	diseases. They can really kill us off. The fact was very simply, go and get diseased.
	I'm not getting diseased. I'm not getting diseased.
	Boy, that's clear. Yeah, exactly clear. If nothing else, he is
	certainly very congruent about what he is saying.
	There's no cons going on here that I can see.
	Okay, we are moving on to talking about projecting the future of a corporation.
	That is one thing that we can't use pitchfork.
	We cannot discern alphanumerics.
	Well, we can look and we can perceive the trajectory and time of an enterprise, like a company or a corporation, what they're going to do.
	So it can be used in a stock market.
	So when he says it can be used in the stock market, that's a very congruent reversal of that with the share broker in the market.
	Zero book growing in this market.
	Zero book growing in this market.
	Yeah, just a very straightforward reversal.
	Now the next one comes out of left field a little bit, getting back to the topic of guns and military.
	Reversal is Graham in the fight.
	First the gun.
	Graham, run for cover.
	And I think this is getting back to there is some calamity that is going to come and you know I gotta tell you I have found reversals
	on me and some of the people in associated in my organization that are also of equal
	concern.
	A reversal say move, get away, run, escape.
	Now whether that is just a collective fear that I'm finding similar information in reverse
	speech to what he is saying in remote viewing.
	So anyway, scram in the fight, nurse the gun.
	Scram in the fight, nurse the gun.
	Alright, window 5, nose is good to go.
	OK?
	Yes.
	OK, now we're getting on to, he's talking about a Stargate that he has found here, that he's remote-viewed with a, once again, a very simple reversal, and we are playing that right now.
	There is a thing, there is a, a, I'll call it a thing, for all intents and purposes, that's already in place and essentially has been waiting.
	Waiting for, um, waiting for someone to find it.
	And he referred to a Stargate, I think he said that, and then the back it says, that heals NASA.
	That heals NASA.
	Wow.
	That heals NASA.
	That heals NASA.
	Okay.
	So we're just looking at some very straightforward, simple reversals here.
	There's no doubt over what they mean.
	We just look at the complementarity.
	And he is a man of concern.
	This one here is a very, very strong reversal.
	He's talking about Sanctuary.
	Places that are less affected by the Mad Max scenario.
	There are sanctuaries, evidently, that are places that will be less affected by the Mad Max scenario.
	I've talked about these before, too.
	And backwards, he says, damn the love, or it could be damned the love.
	I was hearing this one both ways.
	They have to sell.
	In other words, get out.
	Forget your attachment.
	Move.
	Sell.
	Get to a safe place.
	And the love they have to sell.
	Okay?
	Yes.
	Speaks for itself, I think.
	And let's just look at one final reversal here that I found interesting.
	He's theorizing about pre-existence.
	Okay?
	And here we go.
	We have this physical bicameral brain now.
	This mind that associates itself with this physical reality that we have.
	The reality that we are, before we come into existence in this body, is so very different.
	The milieu is so very different than this physical milieu.
	Now this one I'll just raise.
	People talk about the reality is very different.
	He says, they knock you off, you cry.
	Whatever that means.
	They knock you off, you cry.
	Well, it'd be interesting to ask Ed Dames what he thinks that means, but again, that sounds somewhat metaphoric to me.
	Well, okay, I kind of thought it just meant exactly that.
	I was sort of thrown into this world and we wake up crying and go, oh my gosh, where are we?
	You ever see that again?
	That seems to me to be an interpretation.
	David, go ahead and give out your information.
	I know you want to give out information to people on your new... What are they, clubs?
	Right, yes.
	It's called DAWTA, the David Oaks Reverse Speech Alliance.
	The National Chairman is a chap by the name of B.J.
	Bruchok, B-R-U-C-H-O-K.
	He's in Washington State.
	Um, he has so far organized seven different chapters.
	These things are growing very, very fast.
	I'm stunned at the growth of this.
	And you can contact him by calling area code 360-876-6296.
	That's 360-876-6296.
	Now the main reverse seat offers, if you want to get hold of reversing machines to do this
	for yourself, we actually have a sale going on now.
	We've bought in some cheaper bottles.
	You can call the office at 1-800-669-5789.
	That's 1-800-669-5789.
	For those people waiting for our newsletter backtalk, it is in the printers now.
	We're going to be mailing that out next week.
	I'm going to be in Denver this weekend at the Arsel Chat Club.
	I'll be lecturing there on Saturday night.
	For more information, call ERICO 303-695-6621.
	303 695 6621 303 695 6621
	303-695-6621.
	The main reverse speech number once again is 1800 669 Alright.
	A very interesting program tonight.
	That's all I can say.
	David, thank you very much.
	Thank you very much.
	And take care.
	I will tell you what I think.
	I think that a reverse speech is real.
	And I have formed that opinion based on many many shows that we have done Oh, with direct reversals.
	In other words, congruent reversals that seem to either validate what the person says or will show it to be a lie.
	But I think that although there may be something, I cannot deny it, there may be something, very much something, to these metaphoric reversals.
	I think that metaphors, even in the When they're set in, you know, completely forward speech, are interpretive.
	And I think that David tends to get in trouble when he uses them in a public forum, whether it would be on my program, or it would be in front of a chat club, or it would be in front of any group that is hearing reverse speech for the first, second, third, or even fourth time.
	The metaphors are a real problem and do The credibility of reverse speech harm.
	That's my take on it, and I'm just, you know, I'm a neophyte, I'm... As you, I have heard quite a bit of reverse speech, and in the first many programs we did, when we stayed away from metaphors, and I have consistently advised David for the sake of credibility to stay away from metaphors, the interpretive I think it went very well, but I think when you get into a lot of these metaphoric statements that can mean this or can mean that, you get into trouble.
	That's my view.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Well, I guess not.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	No, you're not.
	A wild card line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	I can't hear you, dear.
	Oh, I see what's wrong.
	I'm sorry.
	Hold on a moment.
	I see why this isn't working.
	Let me clear this line.
	Let me go back to this line.
	Hello there.
	Hello?
	Yes.
	Yes, this is Paula in Kansas City.
	Yes, Paula.
	And I wanted to speak up in defense of the metaphors for a minute because I have a David Oates machine.
	All right.
	And I bought a metaphor dictionary to go with mine.
	And what I have seen is that everybody is using these same metaphors in reverse speech.
	And the thing about it is it proves that everyone is communicating I think that is absolutely correct.
	My only point is that to the uninitiated, the new listener, reverse speech is difficult enough at best as you begin to absorb what's going on.
	And when you get into the metaphors, you make it doubly and triply difficult Uh, for the newbie to even begin to grasp what they're hearing.
	Well, I agree with you on that.
	I just think, and what I don't think has been mentioned by David Oates, or brought up, is the fact that, like, we have a whole bunch of metaphors we use in forward speech, and they're also used in reverse, but there's this whole other set.
	And then, like you said, there's certain groups have kind of their own inside metaphors, and the fact that Like, even the ones that everybody uses, like this wolf he's mentioned quite often.
	Wolf is frequent.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	The fact that the whole general public is, that's showing up in everybody's reverse speech, it doesn't matter who you put in there in reverse, some common ones keep showing up, that what could be said about the metaphors would just be the fact that everybody's using them proves that we are all communicating on this other level or we wouldn't all have the same other vocabulary.
	I agree.
	You see what I'm saying?
	Yes, I do.
	That might, every now and then when a metaphor comes in, that might help the understanding of it a little bit, and I do agree that though some of them are hard to determine.
	Now, on that Area 51 call, I had a bunch of reversals, more than David had, but you know, I can understand maybe why he didn't put some of them on the air, and maybe he didn't find some of the same ones, but I had heel with V instead of heel V feet, or whatever, but I had the word heel, you know.
	Hmm.
	And there and I also had one that said, uh, now weep with Harry.
	And he was crying.
	And now weep with Harry of something about the looseness of spiritual life.
	And there was quite a few that, you know, that might've been something to interpret too.
	So that might not be one that he wanted to put on the air.
	Exactly.
	I mean, the fact now with Harry, he was crying and I think that was made his very hard.
	The reverse was the fact that he was crying, and you know when people are crying, they
	kind of clip their words off.
	Even on the other side of the coin, David says that very emotional moments yield the
	best and clearest reversals.
	Well, if they are, if your forward speech is like when he was saying the fire, the house
	is on fire, he said that clearly.
	But when a person is crying, their voice jumps up and down a lot.
	It's true.
	All right, thank you very much.
	It's true.
	Again, I'm just, I guess I'm just saying that in the early shows that we did with David,
	the reversals were not metaphoric at all, and they were clear, they were easy to understand,
	and they related directly to what was being said forward.
	For example, the Cydonia reversal.
	Yes, oh, I love that one.
	You bet I did.
	It was very clear to me, and it demonstrated I guess to an invite, that reverse speech, that there really is something to it.
	But, when you get down to these interpretive statements, I think people are more easily able to say, what a bunch of BS, and just mentally reject it.
	That's all I'm saying.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi Art, how are you today?
	Fine.
	I hope that we can fit all this in, because it's getting to the bottom of the hour.
	Right.
	It's a very powerful show tonight.
	It's fantastic.
	My name is John, and I'm listening from Marshall, Michigan.
	So I have to listen to Outlying, and you've baited it out on me, but I've got you on a bunch of different locations and accounts all over with the radio.
	I'm wondering about the Courtney Brown affair.
	Oh my God, that's ancient now, but what are you wondering?
	Has anybody tried to reverse the speech on that?
	Oh yes, we did that long ago.
	I missed out on it long ago.
	I really feel bad about missing out on that.
	I was wondering about, since I have the tape, I was wondering about getting a machine and then trying to do it myself.
	Do you think it's a difficult thing to learn how to do?
	No.
	Yes and no.
	In other words, if you're looking for straight reversals that are congruent with what's being said forward, I think you will find them.
	And I think you cannot do it with a computer.
	You've got to find them with a tape machine.
	Okay.
	And then once you've found them, you can then put the forward part and the reverse part on a computer if you wish, and it makes it easy to play as David does on the air.
	Do you have any conscious memory of how that ended up turning out, the reversals on that?
	It was so long ago.
	Did it work out towards his benefit or against his benefit?
	Pretty much against.
	Okay, because I was noticing on these tapes, On these reversals with Ed Dames, that it was working out towards his benefit.
	It seemed to be, yes.
	It seemed very interesting.
	Alright, thanks Art, appreciate it.
	Thank you, sir, and take care.
	I agree, it showed Ed Dames to be a congruent, and I'm not surprised.
	Now, we could have a big argument about whether Ed Dames and remote viewing is a valid discipline.
	If you want to have a big argument about that, you can, but I think that It showed what I thought all along, and that is Ed Dames is passionate about what he's saying and believes what he's saying.
	And I think that's what came through in the reversals, clearly came through.
	There was an awful lot of warning in there, and that's what Ed Dames does.
	His nickname is Dr. Doom.
	He knows that.
	So, I'm not surprised that it came out the way it did.
	Now, whether remote viewing is an accurate discipline or not, people will argue about that, I suppose, through the incongruity.
	But surely, I think it came through clearly that Ed Dames believes what he's saying.
	We'll be right back.
	Alright, back to the phones, we go.
	And East of the Rockies, you're on air.
	Good morning.
	Hey, Erbil, how are you doing?
	I'm fine.
	God, I haven't talked to you for about a couple of years.
	A couple of years?
	Yeah, and I listen to you every night.
	Too long?
	Yes, it has been.
	I've just got two questions for you.
	All right, where are you, sir?
	I'm across Wisconsin.
	All right.
	What happened to Mad Man Markham?
	Nobody knows.
	Because I tell you, when I heard that show, that was probably the most interesting show that you had that I really enjoyed.
	Well, the answer is nobody knows.
	He's gone.
	Huh.
	You know, he's gone.
	I have no good numbers for him.
	I'm unable to contact him.
	He's gone.
	He can't get a hold of him, huh?
	No.
	You know, it's 75 degrees today here.
	Really?
	Yes.
	Part of El Nino, I think.
	Well, we sure are feeling it.
	And now we're getting news that the Earth's rotation has actually been slowed by El Nino.
	By, what, one second, right?
	Yeah, but I mean, it'll add up.
	Well, that's true.
	That's true.
	I mean, there's a lot of strange things been going on.
	What do you think's coming?
	Well, I'll tell you what.
	I have an open mind, but listening to some of your guests, If we don't get blown away, if we don't have an asteroid that lands on Earth, I don't know.
	All right.
	I appreciate the call, sir.
	Thank you.
	Yeah, we're speeding toward something.
	I don't think there's any question about that.
	And the weather change is part of that.
	Are we the reason for it?
	Or is it something that is occurring to us without our input?
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi there, Dominic from New York.
	Yes.
	I love your show tonight, but you remember I talked to you about we keep taking oil out of the earth?
	Yes.
	I think that that's something to do with all of our El Nino and all the weather conditions that we're having.
	You can't take things out of the spirit that's inside.
	Well, it could well be.
	Oil is burned or is used as energy.
	And then convert it to heat, which goes into the atmosphere.
	Right?
	Yep.
	Okay.
	That could easily be.
	We have to think more about our environment in the future before... I think Ed Dames is right.
	He wants to move to someplace with the last hurrah.
	All right.
	Well, thank you.
	I think, and I'm kind of glad to see it, that Ed Dames is congruent.
	Now, whether everything will occur, as he said, and whether you think Yes.
	remote viewing is a valid discipline or not is an argument that you can
	have but the eddie believes with a passion what he says
	i was convinced of before i heard the reversal what the rockies you're on the air
	yet i'd
	didn't hear all of the area fifty one down each one of them
	with on from the company it's a piece of tonight right
	i felt that kind of ironic what i heard that
	when they played the forward and then we could put the explanation of that report state
	it would be explaining what he was uh... talk set about I don't know if I'm saying that so you can understand what I mean.
	I think I do.
	If someone were able to take Richard's comments and the entire part of the Area 51, I think it would be quite interesting to see how it correlates.
	And then when you had John David Morton on, you mentioned that Neptune was in the house of Aquarius and that would be strongly affecting the electric magnetic field.
	Yes.
	And I was thinking that might be affecting why the animals matter, you know, have been beaching themselves.
	Absolutely.
	They navigate by lines of magnetic... Yeah.
	Maybe that would also affect the rotation of the Earth.
	That I don't know.
	Thank you.
	With regard to the slowing of the rotation of the Earth, that one has me lost.
	Richard sent me a fax and said it's hyperdimensional physics.
	Other people will hear.
	El Nino warms the water at the equator.
	As a result, the warm water expands.
	El Nino caused the ocean to be 5 or 6 feet higher at the equator.
	As that mass of water is expanded, the Earth slows down.
	As the water cools and contracts, the Earth will speed up.
	The principle is like that of an ice skater.
	When the skater puts their arms out, they spin in place slower.
	As they bring their arms in, they spin faster.
	ABC News, at the top of the hour, just said there will be pictures of the face on Mars!
	Another woman will come out very soon.
	A flight attendant will claim Clinton dropped his pants to her too.
	This is, I think, one of our time travelers.
	Now, I think the big news of the night is definitely the NASA announcement.
	And I think that you can consider that you did it.
	All of you.
	The pressure you put on ...is what is causing NASA to go and re-image Cydonia.
	There is no question about it.
	As a matter of fact, that is the clear statement at the top of their news release.
	So to you all, I would say, congratulations.
	East of the Rockies, you're on air.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Solana.
	I'm in Boston.
	Hi there.
	Hi.
	Okay.
	About the reversal... Yep.
	The fundamental problem I see with them is that You can say that these reversals are true, that they're saying these words, but the spin you have to put on them, I think the interpretation is the area that leaves something to be desired.
	I agree with you completely.
	And that's why I have tried to tell David, David, play the unambiguous, clear reversals.
	I'm sure that his research Um, with regard to these, um, metaphors is very interesting, but it's a lot deeper than, than this audience, and I include myself.
	Yeah.
	He's able to grasp and understand, and he does not sell reverse speech well to the general public when he uses metaphors.
	Well, I'm skeptical, but at the same time, on, on the surface, intellectually, mechanically, I can say, okay, it's possible that in moments of That you're thinking deeply and you may look for words that have similar sounds when they're reversed, but you can't arbitrarily assign a meaning.
	Nobody can do that.
	I think David's job is just to point out the reversals.
	He maybe should not even say what he thinks is being said.
	Or what it means.
	Definitely, definitely not what it means because that's out of, I think that's out of the job description.
	All right, thank you from Boston.
	I tend to agree with that.
	Now, if David does not tell us what we are about to hear, most of us will not hear it.
	The critics of reverse speech will say, well, then that means there's nothing to it.
	No, it doesn't.
	No, it does not.
	The ear It takes quite a while to calibrate itself to be able to hear reverse speech.
	I know that's true.
	I was a dispatcher for a 911 system, and before they would ever let me sit there and do my job by myself, I spent six weeks with headphones on, just listening to the rapid traffic, radio traffic, before I was able to hear it.
	And that was all in forward speech, by the way.
	And there was a requirement that everybody who was going to do that job would do it because your ear simply wasn't calibrated.
	You could not hear what was being said.
	After about, oh I don't know, six weeks, maybe into the third or fourth week, all of a sudden the light bulb went on and you began to hear it.
	So, I don't have a problem with David telling us what we are going to hear.
	Otherwise, it would not work at all.
	Or very rarely.
	I do have a problem, as the young lady from Boston said, with being told what the interpretation is of a metaphoric statement, which in my opinion, to the general public, shouldn't be played anyway.
	Well, to the Rockies, you're on there.
	Yeah, is anybody going to follow up about that religious leader who, the phony guy, recently with the Taiwanese?
	I don't know if he was a phony guy.
	God didn't show up on Channel 18.
	Well, you notice how he retracted first?
	He said something about they can stone him if he's wrong.
	I think he did say something like that, didn't he?
	Yeah, and then he said, well, I don't want you to stone me if I'm wrong, and then didn't show up.
	Then he says, well, if he didn't show up, this is not... Well, I do notice that the press conference he gave was not near a rock quarry.
	Yeah, sure, but I wonder if he's going to pay all the...
	members that left california to uh... go there probably not i mean they probably did it uh... voluntarily
	he didn't tell him that that's where we're gonna have all that ticket
	well if somebody said come to texas with me and we will watch god on channel
	eighteen and you fork over your life savings or a lot of your money
	and you go to texas to see god on channel eighteen do you deserve what you get
	well it was uh...
	small group or something like that from california originally working
	night.
	They have a branch in California.
	Well, I mean those who followed him.
	Those are the ones you were talking about.
	Will he give back their money?
	What do you think?
	I think he should.
	Well, thank you very much.
	I doubt that he will, and I'm sure they went voluntarily.
	And I guess my point, driven with a bit of dry humor, was If you pick up sticks and use your money to go to Texas, see Don on Channel 18, I wouldn't necessarily expect to get your money back.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Good morning, Don.
	Good morning.
	This is Chuck from wet Arizona here.
	Hi, Chuck.
	Getting pretty tired, isn't it, all this rain in the desert?
	Yes, it is.
	Yes, it is.
	I can't believe I got through.
	A lot of people say that.
	All the time.
	I've been listening to you for about two years, which is great.
	Good show tonight.
	My only thing, I was wondering... I think very controversial tonight.
	It was, but it was very powerful.
	It was really good, really good.
	I stayed up all night doing how to listen to it.
	Well, alright then, good.
	Give me your impressions.
	Well, I think that when the interpretation, I like the interpretation of the way he interprets it.
	The one thing that I was calling about is when they had, I forget his name, the last guy they did.
	Major Ed Bates.
	Right, okay.
	I was called about when they had the last guy they did, Major Ed Bates, he said when
	I listened to that program and I've been waiting for this to come on, he said that there was
	something awakening on Mars.
	Under Mars.
	Under Mars.
	Yes.
	And I was waiting for a reversal on that.
	Well, maybe there was no reversal, because that was a very dramatic statement, as you point out, but there may not have been a reversal.
	I don't know.
	I was waiting all night to hear that.
	All right.
	Well, thank you.
	That's all I would have to say, that probably there was no specific reversal involved in that statement.
	I don't know.
	Wildcat Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hey, Art.
	It's Mike from Florida.
	How are you doing?
	Oh, fine.
	Great.
	I talked to you the other night.
	I didn't get the chance to mention that I saw a picture of Comet in.
	Is it a he?
	Yep.
	He's beautiful.
	Oh, he is pretty, isn't he?
	He is a very beautiful cat.
	I have a cat of my own, and I've always loved cats, and I just didn't get a chance to mention.
	I cut off the line because darn, I wanted to tell him how beautiful I thought the cat was.
	Oh, thank you.
	I'm very excited about you getting your time machine.
	And I hope that you don't jump too far into the future and we have to catch up with you.
	What do you think I ought to do?
	I don't know.
	Myself, I couldn't resist.
	I'd have to try it.
	I'd have to at least turn it on.
	Just to see what it, you know.
	Yeah, but that's no trivial decision.
	I mean, if you turn it on and it does work, you might be gone.
	That's exactly what I'm saying.
	And I'm not sure I want to go.
	Let me put it this way to you.
	If I was sure that I could get back in one piece, then I would do it.
	I'm not sure.
	Well, does he guarantee that you actually physically go, or is it more of a mental thing, though?
	Well, both.
	He has observed, and I've talked to people who claim they physically travel.
	I've got to think real hard about that, because... If it works?
	Well, yeah.
	Where will you be?
	And when will I be?
	Oh, I also emailed James Redfield.
	You mentioned you might like to have him as a guest.
	Thank you.
	And mentioned that you'd like to have him on.
	He hasn't gotten back to me, but if he does, I'll email you and let you know.
	What I would hope is that... Did you send me a number?
	For James Redfield?
	Yeah.
	I've got his email address.
	I can send that to you if you'd like.
	Well, that's helpful.
	Anything is helpful.
	So many people will write to me and ask me to have this person or that person on, but no way to contact them.
	Right.
	I figured I'd do it for you instead of asking you to do it.
	I'd see if I could take care of it.
	He hasn't gotten back to me, but it was just yesterday, though.
	All right, my friend.
	Thank you.
	You have a good night.
	You take care.
	Hi, Art.
	Here's the facts.
	Hey, I'll try it.
	The time machine?
	Really?
	Try and send a friend first, or...
	Better yet, maybe an enemy.
	Hee hee.
	But seriously, if you do go, make sure someone is there watching you and documenting it with video or something, so at least maybe they'll be able to help get you back.
	Boy, you know, I am not Madman Markham.
	Now, I was willing to go document Madman Markham's march through the arch.
	That was slightly metaphoric.
	But I'm not sure that I want my march Through the Arch documented.
	I kind of like where I am.
	And as I said, if I was sure I could get back, then I'd try it.
	Tonight, I can't tell you whether I'm going to or not.
	Anyway, my time machine arrived.
	I've got a picture of it on my website.
	I'm going to leave it there because I know a lot of you want to see it.
	So, if you go to my webcam, just click on the webcam, you will see the machine.
	I took that photo just over.
	A couple of minutes before I went on the air.
	Second section.
	Well, to the Rockies, you're on the air.
	King Arthur.
	Yes, sir.
	Not a king, though.
	Well, can I give you a brief rundown as to why I have chosen that moniker for you, Art?
	You may.
	Okay.
	It started with the commercial that you have that says, From the Kingdom of Night.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	A kingdom needs a king, correct?
	It does indeed, but I am not that king.
	Okay, let me go on further.
	You once said maybe a night at a round table, and then you went on to say that you had a round table.
	That's right.
	And you have a sword, don't you?
	On the wall?
	I do.
	How do you know that?
	Because I believe you said it once.
	And it may not be Excalibur, but... Really, it's just like Excalibur.
	You've got a good memory.
	And then the last one was...
	Sometime back here, pretty recently, within the last couple of months, I think, you said you got a crown.
	That's true.
	Okay, add it all up.
	But a crown and a sword do not a king make.
	Okay.
	Alright.
	At any rate, the magic Christian, Ventura, California.
	Yes.
	And what I wanted to bring up, Art, in relationship to your guest, Mr. Oaks, this evening, is, I don't know, do you believe in demons?
	I believe in good and evil, whether they are represented by angels and devils or angels and demons.
	Interdimensional beings?
	I wouldn't say I believe in it.
	That's pushing too far.
	I consider it possible.
	I am a Bible-believing Christian, therefore you know I do.
	The thing that I want people to keep in mind when you're talking about this reverse speech I believe that there is something to it, but I also believe that it can be misused by demons.
	Here's my background for it.
	Do you remember the movie The Exorcist?
	Sure.
	Do you remember what he had to do to convince his monsignor to move the request for exorcism up the chain of command in the church?
	No, I really don't.
	Remind me.
	the voices come out that's right that girl yes and he was messing around with
	him and he ended up playing them backwards yep and you know what he found
	the demons were reciting scripture in Latin backwards mm-hmm well that would
	do it and that was the convincing factor once they were there the higher-ups were
	assured that that's what what happened that's when they gave you a key let's
	But see, that is very specific, and that was the point I was trying to drive home to David tonight, and even to Richard.
	I think this metaphoric stuff may be absolutely a wonderful path to follow, but in terms of getting it on the radio and trying to get the American public to buy into it, You're going down a bad road.
	Yeah, you gotta be very careful.
	And if, for example, you were to discover scripture in reverse, you've got something really solid, don't you?
	Yeah, that would have you scratching your head, though, wouldn't it?
	Yes, sir!
	Is it good or is it evil?
	And more than that, you wouldn't have to wonder.
	Anyway, listen.
	Show's over.
	Gotta go.
	You get the honors.
	Oh, well, like I did the last time that I had the honors, I'll say this.
	Good night, America.
	And?
	Good night, Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are.
	That's it from the high desert.

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