Art Bell

All Episodes

Previous Next

March 11, 1998 - Art Bell

02:06:08

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Peter Davenport - Tampa Sightings Update. Sonic Testing and Whales

Participants

Main voices

40:44

peter davenport

37:26

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		the Kingdom of Nye.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
		First-time travelers may reach Art at area code 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Now, here again is Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here I am.
		Good morning, everybody.
		We are following two big stories this night, mainly.
		We'll rummage through the news again, but they are.
		There is a big rock headed our way.
		It's all over the news tonight.
		I gave you news of the beginning of that story a day or two ago.
		Well, there is substance to it.
		There is an asteroid.
		It may indeed hit Earth.
		It is one mile wide.
		It will not hit, if it hits, until 2028.
		Now, what they're saying is it's about a mile in size, 1.6 kilometers.
		It's been named 1997 XF-11.
		You may be hearing a lot about 1997 XF-11.
		It is said to pass perhaps as close as 32,000 miles from Earth.
		But you see, they really don't know because they've got an error factor here of about 200,000 miles.
		Now, to give you reference on how close that is, the moon is about 250,000 miles from us, I believe.
		So 32,000 miles is close.
		And a 200,000 mile error either way means that this one could hit.
		And there are stories all over my email, all over Reuters, just about everywhere.
		I've got a comment here from Brian Marsden of the Astronomical Union who said, even if we're on a path to hit Earth, technology might be available by then, capable of deflecting the asteroid.
		What would be scary is if it were three days from now or three weeks or even three years.
		30 years is just right because it's far enough in the future.
		Now, I'll be an old guy, probably retired by then.
		But as I said, maybe some kind broadcaster of the future will, if this thing really is coming in, allow me to go on the air and do what I've always said I would do and talk that baby in.
		Or maybe they'll hit it with something and break it into four pieces, which let's see would be about a quarter of a mile apiece, assuming it broke evenly.
		Anyway, so we'll talk about the asteroid.
		And then there is another big story.
		The Navy is blasting whales and blasting dolphins for some reason, so far undiscernible.
		I really don't know why they're doing this.
		They are going to produce incredible decibel levels of sonar in the world's oceans.
		There is a legal battle of some description going on in Hawaii, but I believe they're at about the final step of being able to get permission for whatever reason to do this at a time when we've got a lot of beachings going on for reasons that we do not understand.
		It didn't seem like a great idea to me.
		In the last half hour, I interviewed a young man, Greg Liberacci, who was a sonar operator on board a nuclear fast attack submarine, the USS Skipjack SSN585, who said, Art, I know whales.
		In fact, I was surprised to find I know things that scientists now seem to only be discovering.
		I'm sure other good sonar attacks and operators would verify this.
		I know about most sonars used in the Atlantic from World War II forward through the current models.
		And he says, you are correct.
		This is a very bad idea.
		So I brought Greg on the air, and for half an hour, we talked to him about a sonar and whales.
		And he does know a lot about whales.
		He was a little nervous being on the air.
		Then I got the following facts.
		And we may bring Greg back on the air again.
		Dick Algire in Hawaii works for KITV News, television news guy.
		And he writes, me again, Arch, I have audio of the sonar testing and the whales taped today from my videotaped report, which I can play for you over the phone.
		They are using low-frequency sonar to track submarines.
		You can hear the sonar and the whale songs clearly.
		I have interesting questions to raise about this.
		Why are Navy people on board a civilian ship?
		I also have photos.
		I'm standing by now, and he gives me the number.
		And so to the Hawaiian Islands we go.
		Dick, welcome to the show.
		You are there, Dick?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I'm here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good.
unidentified		I'm tired.
unidentified		It's been a long day.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I was up at 5 a.m. to fly to Kona, and I went out on a zodiac, and I was on board the research vessel with a camera with other TV crews, and we taped reports on the testing.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		You said that they had a court battle, and it was the final step to allow them to do that.
unidentified		That's incorrect.
unidentified		They're doing it.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		They're doing the frequency, low-frequency testing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It has already begun.
		They've been doing it for a week.
		It's already begun.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I'll play it for you.
unidentified		They were blasting it out there today.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		We watched it and listened to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, is this, before we do that, is this big news?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I presume since I sent you out on a ship all day long today, it must be big news in Hawaii.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		This has been news for over a week because protesters have been going out in boats and throwing themselves in the water in the path of the boat, and there have been court cases.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it's a story that we've been following here locally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you able to hear what the sonar operator from the Skipjack said in the last half hour?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I was kind of busy faxing you, so I more or less heard what he said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he said, for example, dolphins use sonar at close range to stun fish, you know, for food.
		And he said, if they get hit with this kind of decibel level, it's going to blow their little minds, putting it mildly.
		So anyway, you've been following this story, and I'm sorry to hear that it's already underway, but I sure would like to hear...
		Far away.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		It's a 265-foot research vessel about seven miles off the coast of the Big Island.
		The boat is called the Cori Choest.
		My question is, Navy boats, are not Navy boats gray?
		Usually.
unidentified		This boat was a civilian boat.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		It was bright orange and white.
		It's a civilian research ship, yet there were Navy personnel with uniforms driving the boat and civilian scientists on board conducting the test.
		So they were doing this together.
		And what they have on this huge boat is a towed passive array.
		They drop a two-mile-long line of microphones behind the boat to listen to the whales and all the sounds of all the animals in the ocean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, that's passive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're not.
unidentified		That's passive.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Now, directly below the boat, they have a hole in the middle of the boat, and we went and watched this.
		They call it, I believe, the moon hole or something.
		300 feet down, they have huge speakers that came up.
		I'm six feet tall, and they came up to about my waist.
		They're underwater ceramic speakers, and they put out 195 decibels of low-frequency sonar waves.
		So what they do is they have Navy personnel on top of the boat with binoculars and on radios watching to see if there are any whales coming up and breaching and in the area.
		They're listening to see what the whales do, and then from time to time they blast out this 195 decibel low frequency to see how that affects the whales.
		Does it change the signature of the whale sounds?
unidentified		Do they try to run away?
unidentified		Do they breach?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Is any of their activity changed from what they feel is normal activity?
unidentified		All right, now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on, just one sec.
		Let me interrupt you.
		Again, going back to the interview I did in the last half hour, Greg said nuclear submarines, on which he was a crew member, don't ping actively.
		You know, submarines hide.
		They don't give away their location.
		But surface ships, he said, ping like crazy.
		And he said he does nothing but listen to whales.
		That's most of what he did in his job.
		And anytime a surface ship would ping with a lot of power, the whale would take off like a bat out of hell.
unidentified		Really?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Well, the reason the Navy is doing this testing is they have a new sonar system to detect very quiet submarines.
		And apparently what they're doing is they want to get an environmental impact statement and find out how this system will affect whales.
		My question is, I have two questions.
		Who has submarines?
unidentified		The Cold War is over.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Is not the Russian submarine fleet in mothballs?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And two, if they're telling us about something publicly and taking news crews out and showing them, isn't it 15 years out of date already?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did they invite you out or did you?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		They invited us out.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		The Navy took us out.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		They said, they took us out on a zodiac.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		They were very cordial and friendly and fed us lunch and said, here's the boat.
unidentified		There are no rules.
		You can shoot anywhere you want.
		You can talk to anyone you want.
		Everyone's available for questions.
		Tape as freely as you want.
		Go for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you did that?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, we did that.
		Do you want me to, I have my report that played on our 6 o'clock news.
		It starts up about 10 seconds into it.
		I hit the record button on my VCR a little bit late.
		But I'll say that this is copyright material and you have to give courtesy to KITV News, ABC Affiliate, Hearst Argyle TV in Honolulu, Hawaii.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Having said that, fire away.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		You will hear some of the whale sounds.
unidentified		You'll hear my voice with three interviews.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		You'll hear the first one is Joe Johnson, who is the test director.
		The next interview is Kurt Fristrep, who is a whale researcher from Cornell University, who's doing the research with the Navy.
		The last interview is Michael Bailey, who is with Greenpeace, who is challenging this.
		And let me get my sound up on my TV here for a second, and then I'll play this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, that's a good balance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll get to hear from everybody involved.
unidentified		Yeah, here we go.
		The North Coast sits about seven miles off Cuoco on the Big Island.
		Welcome to the ultimate whale watching vessel.
		I got a boat.
		Humpback.
		Single whale.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		On board, U.S. Navy personnel keep a close watch for whales and other marine mammals.
unidentified		Down below in the high-tech operations center, they listen.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Scientists on board are trying to find out if low-frequency sonar affects humpback whales.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		The final goal is to deploy a new sonar system to track submarines.
unidentified		The motivation for the Navy as part of the mission is an anti-submarine worker detection system.
unidentified		The idea here is we put out a signal, we process echoes back, and we can detect submarines at significantly long ranges.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Behind the ship, they tow several miles of underwater Microphones.
unidentified		Directly beneath the ship, 300 feet down, the underwater speakers.
		This is what they look like.
		They put out up to 195 decibels of sound.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Scientists say the sound dissipates rapidly in water and is only loud for less than a mile.
		They listen to whales and emit the sonar.
		The sonar is the low tone.
unidentified		the higher tones are the whales.
		Wow.
		Animals naturally have highly variable patterns.
		And what we have to do is to study them enough times under natural conditions when we're not transmitting, and then again under transmission conditions, and see when you factor out all of the natural variability, if there's an offset in their behavior, if under the experimental conditions, they do something differently.
		If the whales react, they stop the transmission.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Greenpeace claims Navy divers were injured by the same type of sonar.
unidentified		We are concerned that the same Cold War technology is being inflicted upon the whales, wise whales, and that there's no way that these researchers can tell.
		There is no way they can tell if a whale has experienced memory loss.
		There's no way to tell if a whale has a seizure.
		There's no way they can tell if a female whale stops giving milk to its baby.
		And that's the crux of our argument right now.
		The testing will continue for the next three weeks until the end of March.
		Then the data will be collected for an environmental impact statement.
		Dick Alguery News 4 aboard the research vessel Corrie Choas off the Kona coast of the Big Island.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that was the report.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And again, that is copyright material from KITV ABC and courtesy has to be given to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Dick, for that.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Greenpeace raised another interesting issue.
		They say that they have documents released under the Freedom of Information Act that says Navy SEAL divers were injured by these very same frequencies, that they testing divers, subjected them to these frequencies, and they had all kinds of memory loss and physical problems.
		I got that late today and wasn't able to really check that out.
		But I'll get some more information on that.
		But basically what they're doing is they say they have a new sonar system to track very quiet submarines, and they're testing it on whales to see how it affects whales.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we just heard the Navy's obviously official position that, why, it's not loud for more than a mile away.
		And then we got the Greenpeace position as well.
		I would really, the Navy is obviously not going to talk to me and tell me anything they didn't tell you.
		However, I would like to hear from the Greenpeace folks.
		Maybe if you have a contact with somebody in Greenpeace there who knows about this, Dick, I'd like to pursue that.
unidentified		We have a 24-hour number.
unidentified		I think I might have left that at the office.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Also, if you give me off the air, I could send a picture of the ship to you that I took my own digital camera and took some pictures, which I've made into JPEGs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Dick, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.
		So let's see.
		You know my email address, don't you?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yes, if I send it to AOL, do JPEGs get turned?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, if you're not on AOL, are you on AOL?
unidentified		No, I'm not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, then what I want you to do is what I'm going to do is put you on hold and try to get an email address for you, a separate email address.
unidentified		Okay, can I say one thing really quick to people in Hawaii?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Every time I call into your show, I get calls for weeks at the station.
		please, people in Hawaii, yes, I'm an Art Bell fan too, and I'd love to talk to you, but I just don't have time.
		Please don't flood calls to the...
unidentified		They hear me, oh, Dick, you're an Art Bell fan.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I heard you on Art Bell, and they want to talk about this and that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, don't let me do my worst.
		I understand.
		You're too popular.
		Very kind of you, Dick.
		Thank you so much.
		And I'm going to put you on hold, all right?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, stand by.
		That's Dick Algaier in Honolulu, a reporter for KITV News, and you just heard a copyrighted report, and we have him to thank for that.
		So what I'm going to do is stall for a second, play a commercial, and I'll be right back.
		What we're going to do is pick up Peter Davenport at the bottom of the hour.
		We're going to play it kind of fast and loose tonight.
		We've got plenty of time on radio, fortunately.
		That's the thing about radio versus TV.
		We don't have to do things in a one or two minute at best slice.
		We can take time and sort of digest them slowly.
		Dick, thank you so very much.
		And thank you also, KITV in Honolulu, for allowing that to occur.
		That was quite a report.
		Boy, you could hear the low frequency blasting out.
		And you could hear the very high whale returns, which sound, you know, I'm not a whale listener, but they sounded, if I had to use a word, I would use the word distressed.
		Now, that's just a layman's uninformed reaction to what I heard.
		Low sound, high distressed sound.
		But maybe that's not true.
		I am very interested in the Greenpeace allegation that these very same, and I had no idea it was 195 decibels.
		Good Lord.
		These very same sounds caused damage to Navy divers, human beings, memory loss.
		And I would like to hear from somebody in Greenpeace, and I know they're listening in Hawaii, so if you are Greenpeace, please fax me a phone number, and I'll get you on the air.
		My fax number is, and everybody else, please stop faxing me for a while so they can get through.
		I'd like to hear from a marine biologist in Hawaii or Greenpeace.
		My fax number is area code 702-727-8499.
		702-727-8499.
		One other story that I just got: scientists are scrambling to determine what killed hundreds of fish spotted north of the 520 floating bridge yesterday afternoon.
		That's near Seattle.
		The day after they began tests of powerful air guns used to detect hidden earthquake faults.
unidentified		What?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whether the fish kill and the air blast were related remains unclear.
		The State Department of Fish and Wildlife fielded a handful of calls between 1 and 2 p.m. and biologists on board, a research vessel, spotted large pockets of dead fish, as well as a state fish pathologist was expected today to recover some of the juvenile fish carcasses to determine what caused their death.
		So we're monitoring all sorts of interesting, environmentally related, worrisome stories.
		And oh, yeah, wasn't the Cold War over?
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Coast AM.
		Coast AM.
		The talk station, AM 1500 KSTP.
		Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye on the Wildcard line at Area Code 702-727-1295.
		That's Area Code 702-727-1295.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		And as soon as those photographs arrive to Keith, my webmaster, Keith Rowland, we're going to get them up for you.
		Photographs that Dick Algire took of a civilian ship staffed with both military and civilians blasting away at whales and dolphins.
		So we'll get those on the website thanks to Dick Algire and, of course, Keith Rowland.
		That should be occurring, I would guess, within the next hour.
unidentified		And that's just a guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the meantime, we've got an update for you on many, many subjects coming from Seattle, the UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, Washington.
		And so that's coming up in a moment.
		Look, we've got...
		Peter, welcome to the show.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Good to be here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting night, actually.
		We've got several interesting stories we're following, particularly with respect to the whales.
		Now, you and I did a story on the whales on, well, on some whales, and that was, I'm trying to think down.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Early February, about, I think it was, roughly first week of February in any event.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you've got some sort of correction I think you want to make on that.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we've had a number of listeners who have sent us some very interesting email, and we may stand corrected on some of the things we represented about that.
		They have pointed out to us that, in point of fact, only, it looks like, only two of those short-finned pilot whales were flown 150 miles out to sea, not all 16 of them.
		That makes a big difference in the expense of that project.
		And the situation, the operation may not have been as large as the captions on those photographs, which you had on your website at one point, I know.
		The operation may not have been as large as we were thinking, I was thinking it was at the time.
		But we're going to post some news articles that one of the listeners dug out by doing a news search or news scan, and we'll post them on your website or our website to try to close that issue off and provide some more information on it.
		Apparently, even one of the U.S. senators from the state of Florida was involved in recruiting those helicopters to fly those whales out into deep water.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was nevertheless a mystery.
		I mean, here you've got a Black Hawk helicopter dumping a very large mammal into the ocean way the hell out at sea.
		It was a genuinely good question, and the photographs made it a very good question.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		That is my opinion, too.
		I am still intrigued by the photo.
		I'm still intrigued by the fact that a number of military personnel were recruited to fly 150 miles out to sea, not in one, but in three helicopters.
		By any measure, that's an unusual circumstance from my vantage point.
		But we'll put some more information out there and we'll let the reader or the listeners take a look at it and make up their own minds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
		Good.
		What else seems to be going?
		Now, there's a gigantic flap going on down in Florida.
		Just absolutely gigantic.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And it's an interesting one, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, tell us, update us on Florida.
		Down in the Tampa area, what the heck went on?
		What is going on?
unidentified		Yeah.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		To give our listeners a little rundown on how it all started, Saturday night, our hotline in Seattle started lighting up from multiple points in the southern half of the Florida Peninsula.
		From Lake Okeechobee, that big lake down in the southern tip, from Tampa, from Fort Myers, from Sarasota, from Winter Park, from Val Rico, from Vero Beach, and So on and so forth.
		Callers from all over the state, from the East Coast to the West Coast, and they were all describing essentially the same thing.
		Namely, two incredibly bizarre-looking lights, intensely bright.
		Some people described them as diamonds.
		They were so bizarre in their appearance, surrounded by big halos of condensation or some kind of something that made the lights a little bit indistinct or soft, they described them.
		Well, we took calls for about 24 hours.
		In fact, we're still taking calls on that one.
		Some of the eyewitnesses had them going to the southwest.
		Some had them coming from the southeast.
		Some people said they were distinctly going to the northwest.
		Our initial impression was that the state of Florida had been covered by a couple of very anomalous objects.
		We had no idea what they were at the time.
		Well, it was not until just yesterday afternoon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you're jumping ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somebody said flares first, didn't they?
unidentified		Oh, yes.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And I have a couple very interesting audio cuts here that I think our listeners are going to enjoy.
		It will give them some first-hand feeling for what we were dealing with Saturday night, and it was truly bizarre.
		In fact, why don't I play a tape?
		This is, I can identify the caller in this one.
		This is a very, very colorful gentleman from Okeechobee, Florida, a man who's been a pilot for about 30 years of his life.
		He flies warbirds or used to for what is known as the Confederate Air Force.
		Those are the ladies and gentlemen who restore vintage military aircraft, bombers and fighters, and fly them at air shows all around the world now, actually.
		They've been out to Bermuda and I guess maybe even to Europe and so on and so forth.
		This guy is Colonel Danny Oakes.
		He apprises me now that the only dog fighting he does now is with his golf game down in Florida.
		He's turned into a golf pro, I guess.
		But what I would like to do are display about a two-minute tape of what Colonel Danny Oakes had to report he saw that Saturday night from his home in Okeechobee, Florida.
		And then towards the end of this tape, he starts discussing some of the information that was imparted to him by officials.
		And I think we're going to leave those officials unnamed for the time being.
		I have no desire to embarrass or put any kind of pressure on these people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't want anybody losing their job.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		It's a very interesting tape, and it's a detailed description of what Colonel Danny Oak saw from Okeechobee.
		At first, he thought the objects were coming from the southeast.
		It turns out they were coming more like from directly from the east, and that's significant.
		And then we'll come back, and I'll talk about some of the significance of this and the things we found out over subsequent days.
		But here's Colonel Danny Oakes, Okeechobee, Florida.
		It's about two minutes long or so.
unidentified		All right.
		And as I stepped outside, I could see coming towards us, it looked like out of the Darrow Beach area, Fort Pierce area, coming basically from the east-northeast.
		I could see two lights.
		And these were not like impact lights, they looked like diamonds.
		If you look at a diamond, it glitters and sparkles.
		As they were coming towards us, they began to separate.
		And you could tell from just watching how very, very, very fast these things were moving.
		The next thing we beheld is that they began to separate.
		And as they separated, you could see formations of them.
		And then they come back together, and they're still coming towards us at a tremendous speed.
		As they come towards us, they begin to move in another formation, like a diverse beast vector, and then they move towards us.
		And when they get almost as close as we can see them, they're no longer looking like diamonds, but they're looking like diamonds, but they're big as moons.
		And they go immediately straight up.
		And then, I mean, they just disappear.
		They leave.
		It was absolutely astonishing.
		I've been flying for 30 years.
		I've seen every kind of rocket, every kind of missile, fired air-to-air, ground-to-air, air-to-ground.
		I've seen the explode.
		This was not any kind of aircraft in this world.
		I've never seen anything like it.
		They recorded everything on radar.
		And the man explained to me, he said, well, son, you don't really have to be worried about this.
		This was airplanes shooting flares out of Petrick Air Force Base.
		And I'm thinking, this is totally ridiculous.
		What I saw happened was no way a flare.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		The typical flare, it's a flare.
		Same story we got down in Phoenix.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And the interesting thing is that he was being told within minutes of the event that there were flares being fired in the middle of Lake Okeechobee by U.S. Air Force aircraft.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Now, no matter who it is, whether it's a military or any other officials, that's a pretty quick decision for them to make.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure is.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Apparently they didn't have any forenotice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's probably flare story number seven.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They automatically issue flare story number seven.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		They pull it off the shelf and there it is and they use it.
		But that was one of the first reports we received.
		And he had these things going all over the sky.
		And I had no idea at that time that within about 72 hours, another theory was going to start surfacing with regard to the alleged.
		And at this stage, Art, it's only alleged.
		I say only because it appears if it's true that we are dealing with the U.S. Navy and specifically a submarine, the Silent Service, and you never learn anything from those guys and gals, of course, for good reason, I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		However, I did have a sonar operator on here, and you're about to say they fired a couple of ICBMs, right?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps.
		All right, now, so it flares to ICBMs.
		Now, I had a submariner on here, a sonar fellow, who was on a nuclear fast attack sub.
		He said, not a boomer, but he said they would not fire ICBMs from the east to the west over a continental landmass.
		That is not something you would do.
unidentified		Yeah.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And the direction that these objects were going, if they were ICBMs, the direction that they were going is still unclear to me for the following reason.
		Yesterday afternoon, a newspaper In Bermuda, halfway across the Atlantic almost, published an article that they had been informed by some source that the U.S. Navy had had a double test firing, two rockets at the same time, of D-5 Trident missiles.
		These are the heavy missiles that are carried on boomers.
unidentified		Right.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And that was the story that was released yesterday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but let's use our heads for a second, Peter.
		If you're off the coast of Florida and you're going to fire, test fire some ICBMs, you're going to fire them in all likelihood either in a south and easterly direction or in an easterly direction from the Atlantic.
		You're sure Sal not going to fire it in a northwesterly direction, which would carry it over the biggest part of the landmass of the U.S. You just wouldn't do that, or at least I don't think you'd do that.
		Or if you are doing that, you shouldn't be doing that.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I agree entirely, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, if the missiles were fired to the southeast or fired to the east, you could not have had the reports that you got.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And I'm going to place a couple more here if time permits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it does.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And our listeners will fully understand the nature of the reports that we were getting about how these objects were clearly, without any doubt whatsoever, flying to the northwest or alternatively coming directly from the east towards the shore, the eastern shore of Florida, headed to the west.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		In fact, let me play a tape.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, please do.
		Again, I say, folks, picture it in your mind, submarine off the Florida coast.
		Where do you fire an ICBM?
		You fire it east or you fire it southeast.
		You don't fire it over the South American landmass.
		You don't fire it over us.
		And so bear that in mind as you listen to the reports like the one you just heard and the one you're about to hear regarding what people saw.
		Go ahead, Peter.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		The next voice we'll hear is that of Mr. Danny Racine.
		He's allowed us to identify him.
		He lives in Vero Beach, Florida.
		That's right on the east coast, north of Miami.
		It's sort of northeast of Lake Okeechobee.
		He and his wife live in a home there that is very, very close to the shore.
		They were looking due east Saturday night, the 7th of March, due east.
		And this is what Mr. Racine has to describe he and his wife witnessed Saturday night.
		Here we go.
		It's about, oh, a minute or a minute and a quarter.
unidentified		Okay.
		We both were pretty much going the same speed and direction.
		We didn't, no sound was coming from the lights or anything.
		And then the one on the right, the lower right-hand side, it almost, it looked like it turned a little bit like a pivot, like a 90-degree pivot.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Going back to what you said, you think the objects were coming straight at you.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		You were in Bureau Beach, correct?
unidentified		Yeah, I was north Indian River County.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Okay, and you think that the objects were coming directly at you at first?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Is that correct?
unidentified		Yeah, they were heading in our general direction.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		From the east.
unidentified		From the east, they were coming at us, heading in a westerly direction.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		So, can you tell me how much time it took for this object to make its change of direction of flight?
unidentified		The pivot wasn't more than a second.
unidentified		It just kind of turned and was gone.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And the second one continued at the same direction, same speed, and that's what kind of freaked me out because it looked like it was something on an angle, you know, at about a 30-degree and was coming straight at us because they were both moving the same exact speed direction.
		One left, left a signature.
		And then the other one kept moving, kept moving for about 15 seconds, and that one did the same exact turn and left the same exact dome.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		So he is describing, Danny Racine in Fero Beach, Florida, looking east, is describing two objects that, now they appear to be coming directly at him and his wife.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Now, parallax is a problem.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		You can't tell whether light's going directly away from you or directly at you.
unidentified		Sure.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		We know that to be a problem.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		However, he and his wife both described and described emphatically how one object suddenly, in a second or less, and he said he thinks it was considerably less than one second, did a right-angle turn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, ICBMs don't do that, as far as I know.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		As far as I know, not either.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		It raises some interesting questions of what we're working with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Moreover, Peter, here's another thing.
		If you're standing on the Florida shore, and even though there, yes, I agree with you, there is a parallax problem, but as an object disappears toward the horizon, you're eventually going to have to turn around and face the direction that it's leaving as it gets to be a dot and smaller and smaller and smaller.
		And I don't see why there would be a parallax problem.
		In other words, if they were staring out to sea, they would see it disappearing out to sea, not coming over them and headed west.
unidentified		Yes.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Now, if the object is just rising vertically and at some distance from them, let's say 50 to 100 miles out to sea, I guess it is conceivable that the human visual system would register that the light is coming at them.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		That is possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe so.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		But everybody on the western shore of Florida reported that they were looking at these things as they were flying from right to left, that is, to the north or to the northwest, distinctly to the northwest, many people said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Now, the interesting thing about that is that the one witness who was quoted from Bermuda in the Bermuda newspaper, a chartered accountant, that is a CPA, was standing on the shore of Bermuda reportedly looking at this light display with his binoculars.
		He is looking to the west or perhaps to the southwest watching this, and he reports, he's quoted to say in the newspaper, that the lights were moving from his right to the left, that is from the western sky to the southwest.
		What I do not understand, and it doesn't make an ounce of sense to me, is how those lights viewed from Bermuda Can be moving from right to left, and everybody over Florida is reporting that the objects are going to the northwest, that is from their right to left.
		Now, there's one interesting addendum to all of this art.
		I've spent the last two days on long distance trying to resolve this apparent dilemma.
unidentified		Sure.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And I've run into some very, very interesting people who apparently occupy privileged positions with regard to information regarding events like this.
		And I have what appears to me to be a reliable source to say he has reported to me that yes, there was a military classified operation off the east coast of Florida Saturday night.
		But he assures me that there is a serious time discrepancy between what happened over southern Florida Saturday night and the military operation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Peter, I don't trust military sources worth a damn.
		I had a, you know, my one big sighting of this giant triangular thing that came over me.
		The military said it was a C-130, Peter.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Flares on it, no doubt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they didn't use the flare story, but they said it was a C-130.
		And I flew in those in the Air Force, and I assure you, I assure you, it was no C-130.
		Yes.
		And I was embarrassed, in fact, by their cover story.
		So, you know, maybe I'm getting cynical in my old age, but I'm not believing them.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to be talking about some of those triangles down in Phoenix at the end of this month.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		There's a big powwow down there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, as a matter of fact, let's do that when we get back from the break.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're at the top of the hour right now.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		That'll be fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
		Peter Davenport is with us right now from the UFO Reporting Center, the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle.
		And we will talk about much more right after the news.
		We're also tracking this sonic testing that's going on in the world's oceans and had a remarkable report from Dick Augire in Hawaii.
		So we'll pick up on that as well.
		And I'm wanting to hear from anybody, any Greenpeace person out there who'd like to follow up.
		My fax number is 702-727-8499.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		If you have a fax for Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nine, send it to him at area code 702-727-8499.
		702-727-8499.
		Please limit your faxes to one or two pages.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
		Now, here again is Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Radio on the fly, as usual.
		In about a half hour, we are going to make contact with Michael Daly, who is none other than the director of Greenpeace Hawaii.
		The very person who was interviewed by Dick Algaier.
		Algire, I'm never going to get that right.
		Sorry, Dick, regarding Navy SEAL subjected to sonar testing.
		But we'll do that in about a half hour.
		I tell you, half the time when I come on the air, I have no idea what direction the show is going to go, and this is a prime example of it.
		Now, back to Seattle, Washington, and Peter Davenport and the UFO Reporting Center.
		We were discussing the mixed-up situation in Florida, and we've got more.
		Peter, welcome back.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		You know, I'd like to, before we go on to other things, I'd like to report to our listeners a call we just took from Florida over the break.
unidentified		Oh.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		This is fascinating, Art.
		A gentleman is listening to us there out in Sarasota.
		His name is Mark.
		He called to report what he had seen Saturday night.
		And this is fascinating.
		He's a gentleman who has a very good sense of angles, elevation left and right, degrees, and so on and so forth.
		He reported that what he saw Saturday night was two objects, both of which did the sudden right-angle turn that we've heard from so many sources, which tends to militate against the missile launch, the ICBM theory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And he said, they did a sudden turn and they rose straight up in the sky.
		We've heard this story many, many times from the west, we're now on the west coast of Florida.
		And I asked him, how high up were they when they disappeared from sight?
		They just winked out, Art.
		He said, I asked him, what was the angle of elevation you estimate you were looking at when you last saw these things on the west coast of Florida?
		He said, about 85 degrees.
		I cannot make that compatible with a missile launch of two ICBMs.
		I don't know if that's accurate or not, but I cannot imagine how missiles launched out of a submarine 200 miles east of Florida could be compatible with two objects doing a right-angle turn over Sarasota, Florida on the west coast and then rising straight up until they're almost directly overhead.
		The mystery is greater tonight than it was three days ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, I'm glad I don't have your job.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I wish we could trade for a night art.
		It is getting hard.
		This is, we're seeing this, as I mentally go back through a number of serious cases we've had reported to us, it is beginning to come clear to me that oftentimes when we get what initially appears to be a bona fide UFO sighting,
		that is something truly anomalous that cannot be explained away, suddenly in a day or two or three, there is a plausible counter-explanation.
		Now, in some cases, of course, that counter-explanation turns out to be the cause of the sighting.
		There's no doubt about it.
		Nine-tenths of the time that our telephone rings and somebody reports a UFO to us, it has nothing To do with those galactic ships, let's call them, that appear to come to this planet.
		That is my opinion, anyway.
		But it's that 10%, and once in a while, there's a rush to judgment on the part of somebody to bring alternative explanations to some of these sightings to the fore to apparently sort of roil the waters, muddy the waters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I am suspicious of the immediate explanation of it was flares, and then, no, it wasn't flares, it was ICBMs launched offshore.
		Yes.
		Now, at the very least, to me, that implies whenever you get any sort of a report, story number seven, give that one out, flares.
		And then if that doesn't stick, we'll throw something up against the wall, something else.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I'm just getting very cynical, and I can hear in the sound or the tone of your voice, you're beginning to get that way yourself.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		It is driving me crazy.
unidentified		Yeah.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Crazy.
		Being inundated.
		We're just being absolutely smothered with data and with responsibilities of one sort or another.
		I hope those ladies and gentlemen who haven't heard back immediately to their e-messages or their telephone calls will please understand that we're peddling just as fast as we possibly can.
		We can't keep up with the data that's coming in here.
		You probably have a similar problem down there in Perum.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
		I run this show by the seat of my pants, as you can tell by listening as news breaks and I try to move from piece to piece to piece.
		And that brings me to something I reported on before you got on the air.
		Somebody just sent me this fax regarding air cannons.
		Hey, Art, I've been listening to Como TV.
		That's my affiliate up there.
		And the commentary they had yesterday about the air cannon trails to find earthquake stress points.
		They are saying they can get seismic readings 20 miles below the Earth's surface.
		And I just can't believe they don't think this is going to hurt the fish.
		Now, you've just had a gigantic fish kill up there.
		Coincidence?
		Maybe.
		But I remember, as this foxer does, you could throw an M80 cherry bomb into the water, and fish for quite a distance would go belly up and be floating on the water.
		Now, this is something that has occurred right next to you up there.
		How far away from it are you?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I'm just about a mile from that fish kill in Lake Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About a mile.
		Well, I'm beginning to really worry about what we're doing.
		This, and of course, the other story that we're tracking heavily on the whales and the sonar blasting and all the rest of it.
		I'm beginning to wonder about wisdom in high places, Peter.
		Yeah.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		To my way of thinking, of course, each of us has his own or her own respective opinion on our government.
		But the question, your statement leads to a broader question, and that is, what is our government doing to or for us?
		Is it under control or is it not?
		And more and more I come up with the latter answer.
		I think it's time for the American people to reconsider where they wish to go.
		But this fish kill brings to mind the opening scene of the crocodile Dundee episode 2 movie with Paul Hogan sitting in his rowboat in an unspecified location.
		Looks left, looks right, and then he lights a stick of dynamite and throws it into the water.
		All the fish float to the surface.
		Turns out he's just a mile off Wall Street, off the tip of New York.
		It's one of the funniest scenes I think I've ever seen in a movie.
		That's his style of fishing.
		And I have to admit that I've tried that a time or two in my own life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I didn't want to ask a kid.
		But look, the last paragraph of this fact says, by the looks of those air cannons, they showed on the news interview, it would make M80s look like cap guns.
		No wonder they have masses of fish showing up.
		I'm sure the fish's brains are nothing more than pudding.
unidentified		Yeah.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		You know, one thing I would like to know about the tests taking place out in Hawaii now is the frequency at which they are transmitting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's low.
		I mean, in Dick's report, you could actually hear the low-frequency blast, and then the whale's answer was the higher frequency.
		I'm tempted just before I put the fellow from Greenpeace on to call Dick back, and I'm, yeah, Dick, I'm going to call you, so get ready to play it again.
		Because you could actually hear the low-frequency blast, and then you could hear the whale's, you know, I'm not used to listening to whales, but it sounded like a scream, a screech.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, to the human ear, I agree.
		I did happen to hear that, and if we can apply human experience to whale biology, it did appear that they were responding to those sounds.
		There was no doubt about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I'm going to explore this one as much as I can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What else do you have for us?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was going to comment about that boat.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I heard Dick Algire mention the name of that ship that he was on this morning, the Corrie Chuest, I think he called it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're about to get pictures on the website of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chuest, yeah.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		You know, I recall that that ship was off the coast of Washington State, and in fact, off the coast of Alaska and Canada as well in the 1990-91 era.
		And the reason I know that is I remember an article from our local newspapers here in Seattle of a very tragic accident that occurred on the decks of that ship.
		Two Navy personnel were very badly injured.
		I think maybe one of them was killed when a very powerful explosive went off prematurely on deck.
		What they were doing was going up and down the coast of the North American continent, setting off explosives and contouring or mapping some of the rifts and rills and valleys underwater.
		The reason the Navy has to do that, allegedly, is to have very accurate underwater maps so they can detect anomalous objects, that is, submarines, hiding down in those crevasses.
		But the interesting point, the reason I raise this, is that it was at about that time that it was noted that the large populations of sea lions were being decimated for reasons that are not well understood, or they weren't back in 1990 or 91.
		They may be now, but I always wondered whether that mapping project from the tip of Barrow, Alaska down to, I presume, Oregon and California, might have been having some effect on sea lion populations, because I've spent a lot of time aboard fishing vessels, and sea lions love nothing more than to follow ships.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		They pick up a lot of dead fish off of them.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		It's an easy meal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there's no question about it.
		And dolphins do the same thing.
		They'll be seen leaping out in front of them sometimes or following in their wake, which stirs up a lot of little sea creatures that they can eat.
		But this blasting, plus, you know, too many beachings lately, too many unexplained beachings.
		The story always ends by saying scientists are puzzled.
		They don't understand what's going on.
		Well, I don't think you've got to be a rocket scientist to finally discern if we're exploding things in the water, if we're blasting them with 195 decibels.
		Maybe that's the reason.
		Now, maybe it isn't, but maybe it is.
		Yeah, could be.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		There are a lot of variables here.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I think it's important to keep in mind, however, that the beaching phenomenon of cetaceans goes back many thousands of years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It absolutely does, but there's been too many lately.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there have been a lot of them.
		They seem to run in cycles, and they seem to run in certain areas of the world.
		It remains a mystery, and it's a very interesting one to me.
		I don't think we're any closer to understanding why those creatures commit acts of self-immolation by swimming up on beaches.
		We're no closer to it than we were at the beginning of science.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now I don't know what he's going to say, and I can't speak for him, but I've got this green piece fellow coming on here.
		And he is indicating that these same sound experiments were done on some Navy divers who became confused, had short-term memory loss.
		And there's not a whole lot of difference between human beings and whales in terms of effects on their brain and so forth and so on.
		If it can do that to Navy divers, if in fact it did, it can certainly do it to whales.
		Yeah.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		One thing we know, I have read, I'm not a specialist in the field, but I've done a great deal of reading in it.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		We know that low-frequency sound can have some very unexpected and bizarre effects on the human organism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's the worry of heart.
unidentified		Yes.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And there's no reason to believe, I agree with you entirely, that if it has a biological effect on an animal our size, it would not be a surprise if it would affect cetaceans in a similar fashion.
		I think it's a reasonable suspicion.
		Certainly we should prove that it's not the case before we go booming the oceans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we do it just the opposite way.
		Even with the Cold War over, uh-huh, here we are doing all of this work ostensibly to find ultra-quiet submarines that are supposed to be generally dry-docked back in Russia.
		I don't know.
		You know, I know the Chinese are out there, but I don't think they've got ultra-quiet anythings.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		It does make you wonder what they're hunting for.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		There's no doubt about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It really does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, anything else that you want to get out tonight?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		A couple other things I'd like to talk about.
		I mentioned that I'm going to be speaking down in Phoenix.
		For about a year, Art.
		I have hankered to present my data on the sightings over Arizona on the 13th of March last year, and it looks like I'm going to have an opportunity to do that.
		There is a one-day powwow that is being planned down in Scottsdale.
		I think it's at the Holiday Inn Sunspree, if I'm not mistaken, on the 29th of March.
		That's a Sunday night, 6 p.m. to 11.
		I'm going to be there.
		Colin Andrews, apparently, specialist on crop circles, of course, is going to be there.
		Wonderful speaker.
		Travis Walton, Jim De Latoso, perhaps other speakers as well.
		And I'm really looking forward to this one.
		Let me just say that if there's still anyone out there that thinks that what happened over Arizona at between 8.16 p.m. and about 9 o'clock on the 13th of March can be ascribed to military flares, if you'd like to know the real story, come to that powwow and look at the slides I have, look at the data I have, and I think they'll walk away with a different opinion.
		I understand that if they're interested in getting tickets, they can call, I think it's in Scottsdale, area code 602-704-1040.
		I think it's Vision Quest Enterprises.
		That's 602-704-1040.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		They can get tickets.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		One other thing I'd like to talk about, which is rather interesting, you may have seen the news reports about this, is the alleged meteor shower over Northern California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I saw zillions of reports, the San Francisco area.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		We got a lot of them, too.
		And one thing that I feel the news reports missed that we picked up on the hotline is the fact that that shower, from our vantage point anyway, I'm not sure we have all the data.
		I'm not sure all of our data is correct.
		But from our vantage point, that meteor shower over California lasted for six hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		We got reports of the same thing occurring as late as 2.30 a.m. on Sunday night.
		And in point of fact, we got calls during Dreamland.
		We got a couple of young women who were driving down out of the mountains who saw a huge, huge blue-green light come down.
		But there were still reports of events taking place at 2.30 in the morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Peter, we need to spend a couple of more minutes on that because it's important.
		So stay there.
		I'll come back to you after the break.
		Very well.
		Peter Davenport from the UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast A.M. Lead me this way.
		I can't lie.
		Kids save the lives.
		Kids save the lives.
		To talk with Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from east of the Rockies, dial 1, 800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033.
		West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico.
		1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		Now again, here's Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here I am.
		Good morning.
		Once again, where?
		Well, all right.
		I want to finish up elegantly, if I can, with Peter Davenport at the UFO Reporting Center in Seattle.
		Peter, I too received just was inundated with these remarkable faxes from people in the Bay Area who saw this.
		And, you know, I want to back it up by saying astronomers don't seem to have a clue about why we're having...
		Now they think they may see from the air where that thing has impacted, whatever it was.
		The one over El Paso, the meteor shower recently over the Bay Area, Georgia.
		I'm hearing again and again and again, meteors everywhere, and I don't think they know why.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's my impression from our vantage point up here in Seattle, too.
		We're getting these calls all the time.
		Certainly, we're quick to recognize, I'm sure, the Earth is struck by about 10 to the 12th power meteors every day.
		There's no doubt about it.
		The overwhelming majority, however, are smaller than a grain of sand.
		But we are getting a lot of reports.
		I don't pretend to understand what's going on, but I couldn't agree more with your statement.
		We're getting a lot of reports about really anomalous lights at night.
		We had a good one over Washington state just about 15 months ago.
		It was December 17th.
		And what very few people understand is that five minutes or so after those objects went from east to west over the state of Washington, they were seen going west to east just south of Portland.
		We got the call two and a half days later from...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I believe the astronomers said space junk.
unidentified		Yeah.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly what they said.
		And the fact of the matter is that if a person is in mainstream science with a career to worry about, a job to worry about, and so on, they cannot say if there's something in the atmosphere that's fast and bright, they cannot say that it's anything but a meteor.
		It's that simple.
		But we're getting calls that suggest to me anyway that there's something very unusual about some of these lights that are being seen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess they haven't tried the fast flare story yet, huh?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Many of these things are reported to us to appear to the observer to be traveling more or less horizontally.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Now, that's not impossible for a meteor by any means.
unidentified		Right.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		But we're getting a lot of calls like that.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		That seems to me, from a statistical point of view, that seems to be a very unusual phenomenon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, as a matter of fact, a large object can even enter the atmosphere, spend a little time in, and go right out again.
		The one you want to worry about is the one coming in 2028 that we just discovered tonight.
		This one, this baby 1997 XF-11 is one mile wide and may hit Earth.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		That would be a good one.
unidentified		Well, I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would be a big one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know about good.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		One thing I'd like to leave you with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		We have had now three reports.
		We've heard a lot about these storms all over the country.
		We've now had three reports, the most recent one from down in New Mexico, of people standing looking at these storm cells, huge, big towering cumulus clouds, and watched ships, disks come out of them like a streak and go right back into them.
		Whether these stories are true or not, of course, we may never know.
		But we've now had three just in the last two or three weeks, and they seem to come from sources that are independent of one another.
		The sources seem good to me.
		I don't know what to make of it, Art.
		I oftentimes find myself in a position of reporting information that is uncorroborated, and I don't understand it, but I think it is, nevertheless, my responsibility to report it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what you're there for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Peter, would you please give out the reporting number?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got a phone there, and if somebody sees something they don't understand, gets video, photographs, whatever, there is a number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		The National UFO reporting hotline for UFO reports is Area Code 206-7223000.
		And again, we're having to ask people to try to limit their calls from 8 a.m. to midnight.
		That's two workdays every 24-hour period.
		We're just being inundated with calls and data.
		From 8 a.m. Pacific time to midnight Pacific time, if they would.
		And let me give out our address, if I may, too.
		Most of all, the website address.
		We're trying to post our data.
		We just updated it recently.
		It's one of those easy to remember website addresses.
		It's simply www.ufocenter.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we, of course, have a link on our site.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		People can get our information there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Peter, thank you so very much.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		It's Been a pleasure, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It always is.
		Strange times.
		Take care, my friend.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's a good night.
		That's Peter Davenport at the UFO Reporting Center in Seattle.
		Now, we played a report.
		Actually, I began talking earlier about these.
		I've been just getting buried in faxes and email about what I thought was an experiment that was about to get underway.
		Boy, was I wrong.
		Boy, was I wrong.
		As a matter of fact, let me read this to you, one report.
		By Anthony Summer.
		ATOC researchers testing the effect of low-frequency sound on humpback whales in deepwater off Kauai put a big distance between themselves and the U.S. Navy project testing low-frequency sonar off the big island.
		Several environmental groups went to U.S. District Court in Honolulu today, which may have been yesterday, hoping to win an injunction halting the Navy test scheduled to begin Wednesday.
		So I'm a little unclear because I talked to Dick Algire, who faxed me, who is a reporter for KITV News in Honolulu, and he very generously played a copyrighted report for us.
		He's about to repeat it right now, of exactly what these sounds are like and how the whales responded.
		I want you to listen to this very, very carefully.
		We're going back to Dick, who spent a full day on the ship.
		And listen, folks, this is not being fought out in court.
		This is going on right now because Dick was there today on the ship.
		And by the way, we now have the photographs.
		Thank you very much, Dick, posted on the website so you can go see the ship that Dick is reporting on right now.
		Dick, welcome back.
unidentified		Yeah, that court case you were talking about was last week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Last week, all right, away.
unidentified		Yeah, that was when they were talking about Wednesday.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		They're talking about last Wednesday.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		They challenged this.
unidentified		The judge ruled that it could go on.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And this testing started last week and it's going to go on for three more weeks.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Before we get to the whales, can I ask you a quick question, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
unidentified		You're there alone, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I've just said a couple of faxes and called one person and listened to your show, and I can't keep up with you.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		You're doing commercials, checking faxes, checking the time, queuing up and playing bumper music, following the internet, calling five people, running the board, and doing interviews on the fly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		You do all that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		As one broadcaster to another, you're pretty amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, thank you, my friend.
		I do that because I have always done it, Dick, and now I don't know how to do it any other way.
		If I had a producer doing things for me, I don't think I'd...
		I arrange it, even if I'm going nuts.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		You must have so much adrenaline after the show, you must not sleep for hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it like that for TV reporters?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have a hard time getting to sleep on a good night when there's news happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so this thing has been going on now for a week, and you were on the ship today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		First, let me say that when you hear these whale songs, I'm not sure it's fair to say that the whales are distressed, because as the scientist told me, and it's your criticism of TV, it's so short, it's short sound bites.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And the scientists explained to me, and I did not play this in my report, that whales are very active creatures.
unidentified		They make a lot of noise.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		They sing, they interact, they talk to each other, they swim back and forth.
unidentified		So when you hear them, that's normal for them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm just a layman, but it sounded awfully high-pitched, and to the layman's ear, it sounded distressed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it came right after the low-frequency blast, so that's just what was my take.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Michael Bailey at Greenpeace, when you get him on, may have something to say about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		When you hear my report, and I say, here are the low sounds and the high sounds, the low sound, and it sounds very much like a whale, the sonar that they're putting out goes like this.
unidentified		It goes, right.
		And over that, you'll hear the higher of the whale.
		Should I play that now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, just replay the whole report.
unidentified		Yeah, okay.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I need to turn my TV up.
unidentified		It's on my VCR here, Seinfeld.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Okay, here it goes.
unidentified		And this is the better part of my report.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, fire away.
unidentified		It's about seven miles off Cuaco on the Big Island.
		Welcome to the ultimate whale-watching vessel.
		Got a blue.
		Humpback.
		Single whale.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		On board, U.S. Navy personnel keep a close watch for whales and other marine mammals.
unidentified		Down below in the high-tech operations center, they listen.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Scientists on board are trying to find out if low-frequency sonar affects humpback whales.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		The final goal is to deploy a new sonar system to track submarines.
unidentified		The motivation for the Navy as part of the mission is an anti-submarine worker detection system.
unidentified		The idea here is we put out a signal, we process echoes back, and we can detect submarines at significantly long ranges.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Behind the ship, they tow several miles of underwater microphones.
unidentified		Directly beneath the ship, 300 feet down, the underwater speakers.
		This is what they look like.
		They put out up to 195 decibels of sound.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Scientists say the sound dissipates rapidly in water and is only loud for less than a mile.
		They listen to whales, then emit the sonar.
		The sonar is the low tone.
unidentified		The higher tones are the whales.
		The higher tones are the whales.
		Animals naturally have highly variable patterns.
		And what we have to do is to study them enough times under natural conditions when we're not transmitting, and then again under transmission conditions, and see when you factor out all of the natural variability if there's an offset in their behavior.
		If under the experimental conditions, they do something differently.
		If the whales react, they stop the transmission.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Greenpeace claims Navy divers were injured by the same type of sonar.
unidentified		We are concerned that the same Cold War technology is being inflicted upon the whales, wise whales, and that there's no way that these researchers can tell.
		There is no way they can tell if a whale has experienced memory loss.
		There's no way to tell if a whale has a seizure.
		There's no way they can tell if a female whale stops giving milk to its baby.
		And that's the crux of our argument right now.
		The testing will continue for the next three weeks until the end of March.
		Then the data will be collected for an environmental impact statement.
		Dick Alger, News 4, aboard the research vessel Cori Choas off the Kona coast of the Big Island.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And again, Dick, you found it rather unusual to see a civilian ship with Navy personnel mixed in.
unidentified		Well, I don't know.
unidentified		I was never in the Navy.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I've never seen, to me, a Navy ship is a gray ship with Navy personnel and Navy uniforms, and there were both on board.
		There were civilians and Navy.
		Now, I should say that they pointed out that the sounds were 155 decibels under the boat, and that sound does not propagate well in water, and that eight-tenths of a mile away, it drops off to a very low level.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you mean 195?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Well, the top, that's the most they've ever put out is 195.
		Today, when they were testing, they said it was around 155.
		That it was 155 decibels at 8 tenths of a mile.
		They also claim that if whales are close or if they react, they stop.
unidentified		So they watch.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		If they see a whale 100 yards away, they immediately stop the test.
		Let me tell you an interesting question that was asked by another reporter.
		And this was not on camera, but as we were kind of packing up, a reporter from another TV station said, do you think if we were in a war situation and the U.S. were tracking hostile subs, that we would give a damn about some whales?
		And the Navy said, well, in a war situation, hmm.
unidentified		Couldn't answer that one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They didn't answer that one.
		Well, they can't.
		The answer is that.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		You know, if they were trying to protect our country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I understand.
		Even I understand that.
		Even I understand that.
		But, you know, we're not at war.
		at least I haven't noticed.
		And these experiments, I believe...
		I guess I'm going to hear that in a few minutes from Greenpeace.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, what the scientists on, now the civilian scientists on board the ships said this is a great opportunity for them to see how sound affects whales.
		The civilians said if the technology that civilian scientists had, in order to test sound on whales, you know, the speakers that they have available to them, they would have to drop them on top of the whales to get that level of sound.
		So they feel it's a great opportunity to use all this high-tech stuff provided by the Navy to see how whales react.
		And they claim that they're doing this to protect whales and see how whales react to sounds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're trying to protect whales, is that right?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		That's the line that they say.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Now you're going to get a different view from Michael Bailey of Greenpeace, I suspect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Protect whales.
		Very interesting.
		Again, I harken back to the first hour, and I had a submariner on, a fellow who was a sonar operator on a nuclear sub, and he said, what baloney?
		He said, you know, I spent all my time listening to whales and dolphins.
		And he said, whenever there's active pinging of sonar going on, the whales beat feet.
		He said they generally like to just sort of go along in a straight line and feed.
		But the moment there's active, loud pinging, generally from surface ship, not subs, the whales take off like crazy.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Well, pinging is one thing in this low frequency, maybe another, because the scientists on board today told us that they could see no real change in the whales' activity, that they were singing and going along their merry way and doing their whale things, and that they didn't really notice that much of a change.
		Now, they would not say categorically that it didn't have any effect.
		They said, well, we need to analyze our data.
		They said that we need to look at the whales with no sounds and see how they react, then play the sounds and see how they react, and they need to go analyze that and then get their environmental impact statement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We have three photographs that you kindly supplied over the last hour now on the website.
		Tell people what's up there.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		The first is the research vessel, the Cori Cholest, C-O-R-Y-C-H-O-U-E-S-T.
		It is named after the Chellist family, which is a family that I believe provided the ship.
		So it was named after this donor, the Cholest.
		That's the name.
		It's a research vessel.
		It's an orange and white ship.
		As we were, it was seven miles off the coast of Kona on the big island.
		We took a Zodiac boat out to it.
		I used my own digital camera to take a picture of it as we approached.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's what's on the website.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the second picture is we pulled the zodiac up to the side of it and had to climb up a rope ladder as personnel from the boat were looking down.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		So you can see someone in a Navy uniform and some other people that were helping us aboard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I think the third picture is me in a life jacket looking over the edge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but it gives people a sense of where you were and where this ship is that is doing all this.
unidentified		It was a beautiful day.
unidentified		I'm really sunburned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't know Hawaiians didn't get sunburned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even hot.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I had a last night with the problems in the Midwest, and it's 82 degrees out here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bet that was something to listen to back there.
unidentified		You know what?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I used to live on the mainland where it was cold and snowy, and I got fed up with it and moved out here.
		And when I see video like that, I just, I can't believe that it's real time.
		It looks to me like that must be videotape of another winter, because it couldn't be like that now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You Remind yourself of why you moved to Hawaii.
		Right.
		All right, I want to remind everybody that was copyrighted material provided through the kindness of an employee of KITV who you're listening to, Dick Algire.
		And so I want to thank you, and I want to, again, thank KITV in Honolulu.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And it will be interesting to hear, I wasn't able to interview Michael Bailey.
		I was out on the ship.
		They whisked us out.
		And then I had to get back and catch a plane from Kona to Honolulu to meet my deadline.
unidentified		I never talked to the other side.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		So another reporter at KITV interviewed Michael Bailey.
		All I got was a soundbite from him.
		So I never really talked to him in depth.
unidentified		And I'll be eager to hear what he said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coming up next.
		Thanks, Dick.
		Thanks, Dr. You take care.
		Stay right there, folks.
unidentified		When the moon is in the devil's house And you must turn our lives with more Then we shall guide the world by the end And love shall feel nothing This is the dawning of the angel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chris Weyer from KITV News in Honolulu and his report on what the Navy and apparently some civilians are doing off the coast of the big island.
		Now, toward the end of that very dramatic report, you heard Michael Bailey, who is the director of Greenpeace in Hawaii.
		I just happen to have him right here.
		Michael, welcome to the program.
unidentified		Thank you very much there, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess that you were also out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you on the ship as well?
unidentified		I was not on the Navy vessel.
unidentified		I don't think the Navy has an invitation to Greenpeace Hawaii or the other people involved with this program to help save the whales because we're the ones that have been protesting it and working to have it stopped.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Normally, you guys are hanging off other parts of the vessel.
unidentified		That's quite true, Art.
		Even in the past years myself, I've directed rubber rafts in front of Russian harcoon boats trying to stop them from saving the whales.
		So the U.S. Navy is very well familiar with our tactics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Michael, what are they doing out there?
		What do you know about it?
		Just lay it out for us.
unidentified		Well, what we have here in Art, we have a Cold War technology being used against the whales, the dolphins, and the marine life off the Hawaiian Islands.
		Not only has it been used against marine life, but it's also been used against human life.
		There's ample evidence that the United States Navy has conducted tests of these low-frequency sound waves upon human beings, Navy SEALs, Navy divers, and they've actually experienced permanent nerve damage, permanent loss of memory in certain areas of their brain, as well as other physical ailments.
		And we believe that these Cold War experiments being conducted in a nursery, in basically a whale birthing ground for a critically endangered species, is absolutely foolish and should stop immediately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you said Navy SEALs, Navy divers have experienced nerve damage, permanent and memory loss.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What evidence do you have of that, Michael?
unidentified		There has been some documents that have been made available courtesy of the Freedom of Information Act.
		One such document, for example, is titled Exposure Guidelines for Navy Divers Exposed to Low Frequency Active Sonar.
		It was conducted out of the University of Texas at Austin, as well as the Submarine Medical Research Laboratory in Groton, Connecticut, which is, of course, the electric boatyard where nuclear submarines are made.
		And these experiments show that U.S. Navy SEALs, Navy divers, were experienced to these sounds, and they experienced dizziness, somnolence, inability to concentrate, tingling in their arms.
		Some of them, definitely at least one of them, and we think actually more, actually received seizures.
		They experienced seizures being treated nowadays with antidepressant and anti-seizure drugs.
		And we're actually trying to find these individuals.
		We know these reports were made public to a certain level.
		A lot of the reports have been made confidential, top secret by the Navy.
		They have not released the names of these individuals who they subjected to these tests.
		We're trying to find them now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy smokes.
		And so if that can be done to a human, would I assume similar low-frequency decibel sounds?
		Is that accurate?
unidentified		That is correct.
		Similar sounds at a much lower intensity.
		The intensity of this experiment, when it finally gets fully cranking, will be literally hundreds of thousands of times louder than that experienced by those divers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know when, in other words, how is the experiment due to expand eventually, you say, hundreds of thousands of times more?
unidentified		Actually, yes, hundreds of thousands of times more.
		When this experiment goes full blast, and that's literally the term for it, full blast, when they finally actually activate the sonar array that they're trying to construct now, all the oceans of the world can become one giant sound sphere, in effect, that will end up affecting all the world's oceans.
		Not perhaps just the whales, if we're dolphins, for example, but fisheries and marine life throughout the depths of the seas and even human life that happens to be in contact with the ocean or even those that may be living near shore because these sound waves can penetrate it through rocks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I understand, Michael, that we have a need for national security, and I suppose we have to even be able to find quiet submarines, but last time I heard in Washington, they're saying the Cold War is over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are we doing?
unidentified		Art, actually, to the closest that we've been able to determine, this appears to be a massive pork barrel project.
		We've been informed that as Dick Oligari mentioned, the Chwiss family and perhaps some other shareholders involved with this vessel, this contract vessel, have been perhaps involved with political fundraising and other such things in the U.S. mainland.
		We believe this is a massive pork barrel project.
		This is trying to be a subsidy for Cold War technologies that are simply no longer needed.
		It is known, for example, that last year alone, 1996, the United States spent over $150 million paying Russians, paying Russian workers to dismantle their submarines and ICBMs.
		We think that's the best way to go, and this is actually a waste of public's money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's one of those things that when the momentum gets going and the bureaucrats get hold of it, it just keeps going under its own power, kind of?
unidentified		Under its own power, and because there's lots of money being splashed around in it at the present time.
unidentified		And it's very unfortunate that that's the situation, but it really is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is the state now of whales and dolphins around the world?
		I know that your organization, Greenpeace, monitors this very carefully because people are hunting them and all the rest of it.
		We're blasting them.
		How are they doing?
unidentified		Overall, the whales and dolphins are hanging in there, but quite honestly, by and large, they're often going down in numbers, not just due to the fact that they were depleted so heavily due to whaling and due to, in the case of dolphins, due to fisheries on species such as tuna, but also due to chemical contamination, PCB, DDT, mercury.
		Recent studies indicate there's very high levels of premature abortion, actually, of baby dolphins and whales that may be caused by PCB, DDT, mercury contamination.
		And now with active sonar now being brought to bear and other sonic technologies, we have concerns that these may also have a strong negative impact upon these endangered populations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There have for thousands of years been beachings of whales.
		However, in the last year or so, it seems like there's been a very unusual number of big beaching recently in South America, I think in Venezuela.
		Do you all have any hint of what's going on?
		It's almost like they're leaping out of the ocean.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		I've actually been involved quite a bit with marine mammal strandings.
		In 1979, I directed rescue efforts to help 41 giant sperm whales, which were 41-foot-long whales that beached along the coast of Oregon.
		And I've been involved with other things along those lines and been studying the issue of stranded whales.
		There's indeed a number of perhaps geophysical anomalies, such as twisted magnetic fields or gently sloping beaches or whatever that may result in a few matched strandings or a few strandings.
		But the most recent research being conducted indicates in many cases, for example, off of Florida, there's been red tides caused by pig effluent being put into the ocean.
		There's toxic chemicals, as well as these sonic experiments.
		We do know there's been acoustic experiments being conducted for well over 20 years in the oceans.
		And it's just now starting to come to light exactly what might be happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're aware, I'm sure, of the pysteria problem coming out of the North Carolina estuaries and actually moving into the Atlantic now.
unidentified		Yes, indeed.
unidentified		And that physteria, which is, of course, pig offal, is also thought to have caused red tides and dolphin deaths and fish die-offs along that coastline.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, when you do talk to authorities, I don't even know if they probably don't even talk to you, but do you present them with this kind of information and say, look, if this can happen to humans and it can do this to human brains, then why is it not reasonable to assume that this kind of sonic blasting is going to affect and damage or hurt whales?
unidentified		That's a very good question, Art.
unidentified		Why is it that people within authority don't listen to what seems to be common sense for everyone else?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, they won't even talk to you or what?
unidentified		Well, they simply say, well, they were able to research it and find that at a certain level, indeed, human beings can experience nervous disorders and can experience memory loss and perhaps experience seizures.
		But they're now being very cautious after they subject these poor individuals to these tests and that somehow they are able to determine how a whale behaves, for example, when subjected to these sonic tests.
		Realistically, there's no way a human being at this point in time in our evolution can understand the mind and thoughts of a giant humpback whale.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had in the first hour a very interesting gentleman who was a sonar operator on a nuclear submarine.
		He said he spent most all of his time listening to whales and dolphins.
		That's what he did.
		Rarely would they encounter another submarine.
		So he said he knows an awful lot about whales that nobody else seems to know.
		He said, look, submarines don't actively radiate sonar.
		They hide.
		That's what submarines do.
		They hide.
		It is the surface ships that blast tremendous amounts of sonic energy into the water.
		And he said, whales, for the most part, take a straight line and they feed.
		You know, they don't want to be bothered.
		They're just kind of moving along in a straight line and they're feeding.
		And when a surface ship would ping very hard, it would cause the whale to immediately take off like a bat out of hell.
unidentified		Yes, indeed.
unidentified		Undoubtedly, that would be the case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be the case.
unidentified		Because recognize sonar, whales themselves, many species of whales, the deep diving whales like the sperm whales with the teeth or even the orca whales that we see of the sea worlds and that sort of thing, and even dolphins, have sonar themselves.
		And their sonar is even much more advanced than the technology being conducted by human beings.
		And they're very sensitive to sounds in the ocean.
		They're acoustic creatures.
		They see with sound the way that we see with light.
		And when you send off a sonar beam into the ocean, it's like flashing light bulbs into their eyes, and they do want to leave the area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, he also said that dolphins, for example, use sonar to stun small fish prey that they're going to eat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that true, to your knowledge?
unidentified		Yes, it is.
		And it's not just dolphins, but as well as orca whales, the killer whales have been known to do that with salmon, as well as even sperm whales.
		The giant sperm whales of Moby Dick's fame are thought to use that same stunning mechanism to feed on giant squid, which make it up to be 100 feet in length in the ocean's depths.
		And actually, the toothed dolphins and whales that use this technology somehow are able to send a sonic beam that Goes forward and it sounds sometimes even like a shotgun shell, for example, in the case of the larger mammals, a small explosion, and they stun their prey and go up there and suck it into the mouth like spaghetti or whatever.
		They don't really have to grasp it sometimes.
		They can use their sonic technology that's been developed within their own bodies to help find their prey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then this is a basic sound is a very basic part of their entire life.
		We could think of it that way.
		In the water, they live by, they hunt by, they communicate by, it's thought, it's all sound, right?
unidentified		That's correct.
		As a matter of fact, this technology, this very low frequency sound, is based upon studies that the Navy has conducted on how whales talk to each other.
		It's been known that a blue whale can talk to another blue whale as far as 500 miles away in the ocean depths using these deep water channels called the sound channels, which are a couple of thousand feet below surface level.
		And these sounds will travel for hundreds, perhaps even thousands, at least hundreds of miles in the ocean depths.
		And the Navy has studied this for decades and is now trying to replicate it somewhat with this new technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so here we are lowering these gigantic acoustic speakers deep into the water and blasting as much as 195 decibels at this point of the experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If whales can hear each other that far away, then you may have heard Dick say, the Navy told him, no problem, after a mile, they don't even hear it.
unidentified		Of course, after a mile, they can't hear it.
		That's what they say.
		But that's not true.
		These whales have got very sensitive hearing the ocean much better than our own.
		Recognize that what's actually happening off the big island of Hawaii right now, off the Kona side, is they have a ship, and they're transmitting these sonar beams into the water's depths, in the depths of the oceans.
		And what they're trying to say is that if the whales instantly change direction, if they instantly alter their course, then that shows they're being affected.
		Well, a couple of things here.
		One is that sound, especially low frequency sound, when it's transmitted in the ocean, often is very difficult to tell what direction it came from.
		The human being cannot tell.
		Our ears cannot tell in the ocean what the direction of sound is coming from.
		On surface we can, but because sound moves so quickly through water, it's a dense medium, we don't get this stereophonic effect like we do in the air.
		Well the same thing may be with the whales.
		They might not necessarily even know the direction of this sound.
		And unfortunately in the case of the Navy research, they really aren't even studying what the long-term effects are that are happening upon the whales in the area.
		We had a report just two days ago from a group of independent researchers called from the Ocean Mammal Institute in Pennsylvania.
		They observed a baby whale, just a small juvenile 14-foot baby whale, no more than a month old.
		It had been separated from its mother.
		It was breaching frantically, swimming around in circles.
		A very unusual anomaly.
		I've been on the water here in Hawaii for over 10 years regularly for days and days, and other researchers never heard of such a thing.
		Baby whales and mother whales stick to each other like glue because there's tiger sharks out here and they know it.
		And those whales, that little baby whales, it was alone and these Navy researchers didn't even see it, but these independent researchers did.
		So there's much happening out here that they aren't really reporting properly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, you knew these tests were coming.
		Greenpeace knew the tests were coming.
		I presume you tried some legal maneuvering to stop it.
		What happened there?
unidentified		There has been a case filed, attempts to be filed anyway, in federal court here in Honolulu, courtesy of the Earth Justice Legal Defense Fund, and it's been filed before the federal courts on the grounds that what's being happening here with U.S. Navy tests is a violation of U.S. federal law, that they're violating the environmental laws.
unidentified		They have not conducted an environmental impact statement, and that what's happening here should be stopped on the grounds that it's a violation of U.S. law, and they should go through certain steps and protocols to ensure the safety of the environment, especially a critically endangered species like the humpback whale.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're such an advocate for marine life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think, instead of always being contentious, they don't approach you and make you part of this so that you can understand it, advise, whatever?
unidentified		I would think because if it really gets out as to how dangerous this is to whales, dolphins, and the ocean environment in general, that the public outcry would simply shut it down.
		I think they picked the big island, the west coast of Big Island, because it's a fairly isolated part of the world to conduct these experiments.
		And they probably thought they could just sort of hide away in an unknown corner of the planet and conduct their silly war games against the whales.
		Well, of course, we here at Greenpeace, Hawaii, which are based on the Big Island, we were here on hand as well as a lot of other local conservationists and fishermen and others part of the community, and we've been taking a stand to have this thing stop.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you've got a website, and I think we've got a link up.
		It's http://forward slash greenpeacehi.inhawai dot net.
		Is that correct?
unidentified		That's correct.
unidentified		It's HTTP colon slash slash greenpeace, G-R-E-E-N-P-E-A-C-E-H-I dot in Hawaii, I-N-H-A-W-A-I-I dot net.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What have you got up there?
unidentified		We've got there a variety of reports.
		One of the reports came down recently from a Greek scientist who studied NATO exercises, North Atlantic Treaty Organization naval exercises in the Mediterranean Sea and found a link between those exercises and whale strandings off the coast of the Greek islands.
		There's also some other information there, currently the Ocean Manual Institute, pertaining to what's happening here with the whales and dolphins and some other research activities.
		We also have some press releases as well as some beautiful ways for people to become involved and help support the Greenpeace Hawaii activities to help save the whales here in Hawaii.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Michael, what I would like to do, if I can, is to open the lines in this next half hour.
		And it's a rather unusual opportunity for people to ask you questions.
		Perhaps not all will be friendly.
		As you well know, you have political enemies.
		However, we'll open the lines randomly and see what we get.
		Are you willing to do that and answer questions?
unidentified		Undoubtedly.
unidentified		Let's open the lines and let the people come forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they'll come forth.
		All right.
		All right, stand by.
		Michael Bailey is my guest.
		If you would like to see Michael's website, if you would like to see photographs of the ship that Dick was on yesterday, we now have all of that up on our website.
		It's been one of those nights where we're flying all over the place.
		So I guess all I can do is ask you all to go up there and take a look if you've got a computer.
		If not, get on the phone.
		Michael Bailey of Greenpeace, director of Greenpeace Hawaii, coming up on the phones next.
unidentified		It's been a too long time with no peace of mind.
unidentified		And I'm ready for the times to get better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ellie, Michael, I am on your website at the moment.
		By the way, it's a beautifully done website.
		The map of Hawaii is really, really nice of the islands.
		But I see just below it it says for immediate release Friday, February 28th, boaters to blockade U.S. Navy Sound of Death Experiments.
		That's sound of death experiment?
		I presume this is the one you're talking about, right?
unidentified		That's exactly it.
		That's what it's being called around the world at this point in time is the sound of death because that's what it's doing.
		These sounds are being transmitted in the sea and they are indeed causing death.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you still, have you already tried a blockade or is this something ongoing?
unidentified		There's been actually at this point in time in the past week since the Navy first started the test, there's been at least four sortes onto the ocean.
		It's actually a citizens protest happening on the big island.
		We are one of the participants or other individuals.
		There's fishermen, there's whale watchers, there's other people involved with this organization here.
		And what we're trying to do is simply try to stop the test.
		And the way that we're doing it is a fundamental, traditional Greenpeace Hawaii and even type of campaign where human beings are simply putting themselves in the water in the vicinity of the Navy vessel.
		We're putting ourselves within just a half mile radius of the ship, knowing full well that if they transmit their sounds at their projected capacity, the people in the water will be injured.
		Any diver in the water within a mile radius can be injured by these sounds.
		And these are actually very small, low sounds compared to the fully active sonar program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it stopping them?
unidentified		Well, yes.
		So far they've never transmitted as long as there's people in the water.
		There's been periods of time where there's been people in the water for up to four to five hours.
		There's been no sound transmissions.
		So it is having an impact upon their operation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's go to the phones.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Michael Bailey in Hawaii.
		Hello there.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, dear?
unidentified		In Hawaii.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're in Hawaii.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, turn your radio off.
unidentified		It is off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Michael, do you have a radio on there?
unidentified		No, I do not.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought I heard one.
		All right.
		Go right ahead, dear.
		Michael's listening.
unidentified		My question is, I understand that the humpbacks phonate from 12 Hz to about 30 kilohertz.
unidentified		What exactly are the low frequency ranges that they're emitting?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good question.
unidentified		The low frequency ranges in the SODAR test vary from around 100 or so up to even 200 or 300 hertz.
		They actually, there's been some theories that they may go as high as maybe 300 hertz.
		It's within the range of the whale transmissions.
		Whales transmit a wide variety of frequencies, some of which are actually perhaps thought to be even below the human hearing range or right at the lower levels of ours, as well as higher.
		And it's definitely within the humpback whales.
		And even more than humpback whales, quite honestly, there's even greater concern over sperm whales and actually dolphins, which use sonar to find their squid and prey at night.
		So there's actually even other concerns over the other species of marine mammals in the area.
		Okay.
		Has there been any other data trying to find out if there are adverse reactions by researchers instead of by the Navy?
		Well, the only individuals that have been doing an independent research program on the Big Island at this point in time is the Ocean Mammal Institute that's based in actually Pennsylvania.
		But they do have a group of people on the Big Island.
		They were the people that just two nights ago, two days ago noticed that there was a baby whale that was abandoned or separated from its mother.
		The mother whale could not be sighted.
		One of the things that we are trying to do is call for a greater number of independent researchers to be on site because we feel that the individuals being paid by the Navy have simply got a job to put on kind of a cover-up for what's really happening.
		And we want independent researchers, ideally even international teams, to monitor the impact upon the whales and the dolphins.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds reasonable to me.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Michael Bailey in Hawaii.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, Mike in Detroit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Mike.
unidentified		Yeah, first off, finally, after our five-year quest, I got through.
		First off, I want to mention that I know studies have been done on other mammals, such as bats, with low and high-frequency sound, and it at times caused, as I understand it, major hemorrhaging and violent reactions with them in general.
		Being that they use sonar as well, don't you think that there would be evidence enough for our lovely government to have stopped it right there?
		Because s don't cetaceans j in general use the same or similar sonar uh theory?
		Margin, is this a question for me?
		Yes, cetaceans do, of course, use sonar.
		Uh certain species more than others, the deep diving toothed whales like the sperm whales and orca whales use sonar.
		The humpback whales themselves use a low-frequency sound to sing to each other and perhaps may have navigational potential with sound that we have yet to even determine.
		And this is one of the things, of course, that the Navy discovered years ago using their own hydrophone devices scattered in the Atlantic Ocean and the Pacific when they were searching after Russian and other submarines.
		And they were able to determine that the whales and the dolphins, particularly these deep diving whales, could communicate to each other across many, many miles of underwater area.
		And that's part of what this program is about, simply duplicating some of the whales' technology.
		Yeah, also on the other side of it, I used to be in the military not too long ago myself.
		And I do know for a fact, for whatever reason, the Cold War games, we'll call it, are still being played because the Russian submarines aren't mothballed, I can tell you that.
		And remember the treaty not too long ago, I can't remember what it was, that grounded the SR-71, they're still in regular flight over their same areas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Michael, what about that?
		Everybody will say national security, the Cold War is over, yes, but it really isn't, as this color said.
		And we have to be doing these things because the Russians are getting quieter and quieter and quieter.
		What do you say?
unidentified		Well, even though the Russians are perhaps getting quieter somewhat, they're not putting the level of resources into their submarines that they were 10, 15 years ago, for example.
		They're still running around with the same equipment they were five, six, seven years ago or whatever.
		And the United States has already hydrophone arrays.
		There are listening arrays spread across the North Atlantic between Iceland and Norway, spread across the Pacific Ocean.
		They're specifically designed to find submarines.
		And ironically enough, those hydrophone arrays are actually being allowed to go into disrepair.
		And this other technology is being experimented with.
		Recognize this other technology, this low-frequency sonar, is not even known if it even works.
		It's simply a test of a theoretical possibility that it might work.
		And there's a lot of people involved that have studied it who are scientists in their own right that actually have doubts whether it can work as accurate as the Navy really claims.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East to the right, Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Bailey in Hawaii.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Yes, good morning, Art.
unidentified		This is John from Westchester County.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In New York?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Yes, I'd like to ask Michael a quick two-part question.
		By the way, Michael, congratulations on your work on behalf of cetaceans.
		Thank you very much.
		I appreciate that.
		Okay, the first part involves the Navy's ELF submarine communications system.
		You've been out in the Pacific for quite a while, and perhaps have you noticed a correlation between the use of ELF submarine communications by both the U.S. and Russia and perhaps the effect on undersea life?
		Well, there's actually, as we've come recently to understand, there's many sounds happening to see that there aren't necessarily this low-frequency sonar or other things.
		There's another device, for example, called the ATOC 8ATOC undersea boom box.
		It's the Acoustic Thermometry of Ocean Climate, which is a sound device that's off of Kauai, and another one that's off of Monterey, California.
		And what they've done, they've set up another project, which so far has eaten up $50 million in taxpayers' money and so far has not accomplished its goals.
		And in theory, they're trying to determine if the ocean deepwater areas are warming up maybe one degree Fahrenheit every 30 years.
		And if they're able to actually prove that, then maybe that's possible to be an indicator of global warming.
		And to actually do that experiment, it's going to cost $2 to $3 billion.
		And it's as if they've never heard of thermometers.
		It isn't like they've ever heard actually put a thermometer in the ocean to determine if it's warming or not.
		Instead, they have to devote these millions, actually, ends up being hundreds of millions of dollars to these projects.
		And one of our concerns is it's simply a massive waste.
		And for people really want to engage in Cold War efforts, they should simply buy the submarines from the Russians and develop other types of technology which are available, much more expensive hydrophones are available that can actually find quiet submarines.
		All right.
		I spoke last month on the program about the HARP project up in Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, are you aware of that, Michael?
unidentified		Yes, we've been watching HAARP with quite a great amount of interest.
		It's my understanding, and I'm not by far an expert on HARP.
		I've just seen some of the information because you are an expert.
		I have a question.
		It's my understanding this is an array, some sort of array of transmitters up in the Arctic that's designed to blast holes into the ozone layer and perhaps even send fields of electricity arcing across the onosphere.
		That's my impression of what this thing is.
		I'm not exactly sure.
		Some people say it's experiments upon how to change the weather patterns.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, some of it is communications, Michael, that they say they're testing for.
		And get this.
		The other mission of HARP is to map underground bunkers and tunnels.
		So imagine the amount of energy they must have to reflect, if they're going to reflect it, to go underground and find bunkers and tunnels.
unidentified		Well, whatever that means, that means that energy is penetrating right to the cells of our own bones.
unidentified		And we may be very concerned about what that does to us human beings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I couldn't agree more.
		Thank you very much, Caller.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Bailey in Hawaii.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		I'm on the Kona Coast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Morning, Art.
		Morning, Mike.
		Very good.
unidentified		Question for Mike.
unidentified		As far as Greenpeace monitoring this Navy ship, are you guys running 24-hour monitoring on this vessel?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're not even sure about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it really a Navy ship, Michael, or are there just Navy people On a civilian research ship.
unidentified		You've got it, Art.
		It is Navy personnel on a civilian research ship.
		We believe it's a pork barrel project where effectively the stockholders and shareholders in this vessel are getting lots of money, tens of millions of dollars, to develop this ship.
		And it's just a way to allow some money to slush around.
		We've heard these people have been contributors to fundraising on the Democratic Party in the mainland.
		It's just a rumor.
		We haven't got it confirmed yet.
		We're trying to find out.
		But in answer to the caller, no, unfortunately, it has not been really a 24-hour surveillance.
		It's been largely a civilian, just a citizens' movement, as a matter of fact, which has been with the Animal Welfare Institute in Washington, D.C., ourselves have been involved, and a number of other people involved with whale watching and fishing just on the Kona coast there that simply have a compassion and concern for the whales.
		It has not been 24 hours.
		The Navy says they're only transmitting in the daytime, but so far it's been an experiment to see if it even works as far as making sure the people in the water, the Navy doesn't transmit.
		And so far it's working, and there's definitely hopes amongst all of us involved with it all that it will increase and that the Navy efforts will be stopped.
		Well, here's a news flash for you then.
		In Dick Algar's report this evening, he reported off seven miles off Puako, which is about 40 miles north of about 50 miles north of Kailua Kona.
		I work here about 10 miles out of Kailua Kona from 10 at night to 6 in the morning.
		And right off of Dakona Airport, I watched the vessel operating about 2 miles offshore, about 40 miles farther south than what the day reports are.
		And this vessel is actually skimming up and down the coast about two miles offshore and doing about 10-mile runs back and forth north to south.
		So they are running 24-hour operations and they are doing something out there at night.
		I don't think they're just burning gas.
		What do you think?
		It could easily be conducting many other types of activities there at night and even other times.
		We even heard over the past year, for example, of people diving off Kona, people that go night diving and they see these beautiful manta rays that soar through the water at these night dives, hearing underwater sounds.
		The Navy denies it's them, yet we really don't know who else it could possibly be.
		And we're looking at the ship right now.
		Pardon that?
		I'm looking at the ship right now.
		I'm looking at her lights right now.
		It's right there.
		It's definitely a ship off the ship.
		Right off of the Kona International Airport, about maybe two, three miles offshore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		Yeah, so they're operating.
unidentified		That's no doubt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Caller, we sure appreciate it.
		And, Michael, you might want to make note of that.
		I guess it's hard for you folks to get out at night.
unidentified		Well, at this point in time, it's a matter of logistics and funding and personnel and that sort of thing.
		Our organization, Greenpeace Hawaii, is a largely, virtually 100% volunteer organization.
		We get very little funding from our mainland compadres.
		So whatever we do, we more or less muster from our own volunteer resources here in the state.
		And the people that have been involved in this program that are from the Big Allen have also been doing it largely voluntarily.
		The Animal Welfare Institute in Washington, D.C. has helped us out quite a bit.
		They had a fellow named Ben White here, who is a renowned conservationist and activist.
		He's been on-site organizing people.
		It's been just a public citizen's outcry to what's happening here.
		And it's a movement that's growing, and it makes us feel really good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've got to really have some brave people to go and stay in the water for hours with the possibility the Navy will say the hell with it and throw the switch anyway.
unidentified		That's correct.
unidentified		There are some brave people, and I guess that's one of the challenges one can face if one really believes in helping save the whales and the environment here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First time caller align.
		You're on the air with Michael Bailey in Hawaii.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Just outside of Chicago?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Where it's about zero right now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's getting cold.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Good morning, good morning, Mike.
		I've been taking notes and listening to what your guests have been saying.
		My question is, what do we do now?
		Where do we go?
		Who do we contact?
		And also, beside that, does Greenpeace have a national number?
		Well, the national organization in Washington, D.C. isn't really directly involved with this campaign.
		This is largely a local effort here by our own autonomous Greenpeace Hawaii operation here, and, of course, the other people and individuals and organizations that are based in the Big Island of Hawaii and throughout the state here.
		The best way to simply contact the campaign front is to call Greenpeace Hawaii on the big island, the big island of Hawaii.
		The number is 808-969-9910, 808-969-9910.
		If you want to send a fax, we'd love to hear from you.
		973-0235.
		Any letters of protest you want to send off, just copy them to us.
		973-0235.
		We'll make sure they're sent to the Secretary of the Navy and other key people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Wild Card line, you're on the air with Michael Bailey in Hawaii.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		This is Dan in Virginia.
		Yes.
		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Dan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I find it unusual.
unidentified		You know, we've probably had sonar for, what, 50, 60 years?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, long time.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		And I think this is just a cover-up for something else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's actually a very good point.
		Could he be right?
		Could this be something else altogether, Michael?
unidentified		Indeed, it could.
		There's been some people that we've been speaking with that are very highly experienced in the world of underwater physics and sounds.
		They have serious doubts whether this technology can even work the way they say they're going to.
		Supposedly what it is, they have this sonar array of these refrigerator-size transmitters, 30 to 50 of them hang off a line, it goes straight down into the sea 500 feet, and somehow this is able to beam a low-frequency sound,
		which is very difficult because low-frequency sounds don't beam very well, and they bounce it off the ocean bottom and up towards the surface somehow, and somehow get another reflection back, and somehow sort of maybe try to get a reading on something.
		And there's those that have actually stated that the frequencies that they're using, They can't really get bounce backs from.
		So it's quite possible this is something else entirely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on there with Michael Bailey in Hawaii.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Oh, hi.
unidentified		This is Tim in Orlando.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Tim.
unidentified		How are you doing tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Orlando, Florida.
unidentified		Yes, that's right.
		Okay.
		I kind of agree with the fact that there may be a cover-up going on here because it doesn't seem logical to me to be blasting all this high-frequency or high-intensity sonar into the oceans.
		But at the same time, earlier on, you were talking about the hydrophones and everything.
		You know, they could be going obsolete.
		That's the reason why they're letting them go.
		Because, you know, remember Hitachi had that thing with Japan a while back where Hitachi had let some of the technology go and the Russians got a hold of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was it Hitachi or Panasonics?
unidentified		I think it was Hitachi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, let's just say a Japanese company.
unidentified		A Japanese company let some of the technology go where the non-cavitating props were able to be reproduced in Russia.
		That's correct.
		And bear in mind also that if they did have some kind of increased technology with the submarines over there, we would not really know about it.
		Remember, the remote viewers were the ones that found out about the new class of submarines that had these big, hugely right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Caller?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Caller, hold on a moment.
		Michael, listen, we're at the end of the hour.
		I have more airtime if you can stick around.
unidentified		We're here.
		We're now.
		We're ready to answer questions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Done deal.
		In that case, both of you two talked to a director of Green Peace in Hawaii, Michael Bailey.
		Michael, welcome back.
		A lot of people want to talk to you.
unidentified		We're here, Arch.
unidentified		We're ready to answer questions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And again, folks, if you'll go to my website and just go down to Michael's name and click on it, it'll take you right over to their website.
		And it really is very, very well done.
unidentified		Question, Art.
		What is your website?
		We've had a few calls ourselves.
		What's your website?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		www.artbellar.com.
		Easy.
		And you will notice the number of hits you're about to get will test your system.
		All right, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Bailey.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		This is Tim Orlando still hanging in here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's right.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I held you on.
unidentified		Okay, yeah, I was going to say that, you know, the point I was trying to get to was that this may very well be a different type of weapon that they're trying to make up over here or some way of being able to incapacitate the sonar listeners.
		Because, you know, they've already gotten to the point in technology where it's almost impossible to hear these submarines.
		And maybe the sonar listeners are getting so good at it, they need to have some kind of a screen to put up, and this is the way that they're going to do that.
		You know, Tart, you're a ham.
		You understand about radio propagation and wave propagation.
		I do.
		And the propagation of a wave in the water is probably very similar in the ether.
		And so if you have shortwave radiation, it doesn't get around corners very well, but long wave does.
		Now they're talking about low frequency sound here.
		If you're using long wave radiation in the low frequencies like that, it propagates very well throughout everywhere.
		And that could set up some kind of a screen for these submarines or whatever they're doing.
		And this could be the type of thing that they're doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we could speculate until we grow old, but I do agree with you that it could be something entirely different than what they're suggesting.
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for the call, sir.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Let's go west of the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Michael Bailey in Hawaii.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		In Manchu, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I just had a real quick question.
		I don't know if you've covered this already.
		Where would you send financial support and who to contact to actually come and help if they need it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a question I'm sure Michael doesn't mind.
unidentified		Definitely not.
		People can simply call us.
		Actually, I'd actually prefer if they actually would fax us.
		Our telephone lines have a tendency to get jammed because we do have a very small office over here.
		It'd be easy if they could fax us.
		Simply faxing us at 808-973-0235.
		That's 808-973-0235.
		Send us in your information.
		If you look on our website, we have a membership form.
		And of course, the website there is http colon slash slash greenpeacehi.inhawaii.net.
		That's G-R-E-E-N-P-E-A-C-E-H-I dot in Hawaii I-N-H-A-W-A-I-I dot net.
		There's a membership form.
		And basically at this point in time, all the funds that we get are being used for this campaign.
		And we, of course, Quentin Office are one of the few organizations here in the Pacific that are involved with this issue.
		It's Greenpeace, it's the Animal Welfare Institute in Washington, D.C., and a handful of other people that are based on the big island themselves, citizens that are involved with this.
		And financial support is definitely needed.
		It is definitely a might against mammoth situation.
		But you know what's interesting, Art, and whoever's called in here, people around the world are responding to this in unprecedented numbers.
		And it's not just the fact that it's the whales and it's the dolphins, it's the environment, but of course in recent days, starting today, people became aware that there's been United States Navy personnel exposed to these sounds, and they've undergone serious physical disabilities due to it all.
		And there's great concerns about that also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, caller.
		Help them out.
		Okay?
unidentified		All right.
		You appreciate the work you're doing and art.
		We love your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		Take care.
		And what I will do also is, Michael, if somebody from the U.S. Navy or in charge of this project was interested in debating you, I take it you wouldn't mind such a setup.
unidentified		I'd be very welcome to that art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First time caller align, you're on the air with Michael Bailey in Hawaii.
		Where are you?
unidentified		Winnipeg, Manitoba.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Manitoba, Kennedy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		I was just going to say another possible idea, of course, for cover-up, is that maybe there's extraterrestrial life down there, and they realize that and they don't want to admit that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know about that, but there certainly is a lot of life that we don't understand at the bottom of the sea.
		As a matter of fact, Michael, recently they have discovered that there's life where there ought not be life, near volcanic venting, very, very deep in the ocean.
		You're aware of that?
unidentified		Yes, I am.
		Particularly off the big island of Hawaii, for example, there is an underwater seamount that's been rising up to the surface for millions of years, and it's actually erupting.
		And from the eruptions, from the gases and chemicals, there is life.
		It's actually this new life they found makes them believe that perhaps there might even be life on Mars or even some of the moons of Jupiter, because where there is not sunlight, we used to think there's no life.
		Well, now we discovered with volcanic activity, there can be different types of life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Surprise, surprise.
		Life will prevail.
		Wildcard line, you're on here with Michael Bailey in Hawaii.
		Where are you?
		Hello.
		Going once.
		Going twice.
		Gone.
		East of the Rockies, you're on here with Michael Bailey.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
		This is John calling from Houston.
		Unfortunately, our local affiliate here doesn't hear your last hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're doing their morning show.
unidentified		Yeah, well, no, actually, they're running reruns of somebody else's show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's too bad.
unidentified		Yeah, it is too bad because I think your show is the best one on the air.
		Well, thank you.
		I'm an ex-submariner, too, Art.
		I was, oh, a greenfish SS-351 out of Pearl Harbor back during the Vietnam era, back in 67.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And I was a radioman, but one of the things I've been keeping very, very close track of is Russian submarine technology and things like that.
		Now, one of your previous callers hit it right on the money when he said that a few years ago that Hitachi had indeed sold this non-cavitating propeller design to the Russians.
		But also there was another thing that was in the news very, very quietly, a little tiny article that was in about two or three years ago, about this time of the year, that according to Jane's Intelligence Weekly, as you know, the most authoritative private intelligence source in the world, the publishers of Jane's fighting ships, according to Jane's, the Russians have developed a 200-knot torpedo.

▲