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Feb. 18, 1998 - Art Bell

03:31:37

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Dr. Ronald Klatz - Anti-Aging. Marshall Barnes townhall

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	Music.
	From the high desert and the great American southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning as the case may be
	across all these great time zones.
	In great geography, from the Tahitian and Hawaiian island chains in the west, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to the Poland worldwide on the Internet.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	Good morning, I'm Mark Bell.
	Well, as many of you may or may not know, February 26th, there is scheduled to be a solar eclipse that peaks at about 9.26 AM.
	There is also supposed to be a new moon on that night.
	My guess would be that that is when we are going to go to war, or within 12 hours on either side of that particular time, that 26th.
	So, but with that in mind, and with the fact that there was a town meeting in Columbus, Ohio, Earlier in the day, it was Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, Defense Secretary Cohen, and National Security Advisor Sandy Berger, which I got to see because I was home, of course, and awake during those particular hours.
	And by the way, which is being replayed right now, or just concluded, I'm not sure, on CNN.
	I'll take a look.
	It was an absolutely remarkable event.
	Totally remarkable.
	And the trio was there to answer questions about our apparent plans to go to war and about the whole dispute with Iraq.
	Now, I've got a couple of comments and then a guest for you on the subject.
	One, hi Art, have you been watching the replay of today's town meeting in Ohio on CNN?
	This is Daryl down in L.A.
	Question, why would any president Who comes from a background of anti-war activities himself, put his top members in front of any university town meeting at this time.
	Answer?
	There is no answer.
	But it does not take a triple-digit IQ to know that the only campuses that will not get this reaction are the service academies, of course.
	And then I got this.
	From the Summit Star, some sort of newspaper, I'm not sure where in, uh, Lee Summit, Missouri.
	No sugarcoating, in quotes, on town hall meeting while a bootleg copy, get this, of Wag the Dog played on Iraqi television, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, National Security Advisor Sandy Berger, and Secretary, uh, Security General William Cohen, National Security Director, took questions from a divided audience On the campus of Ohio State University, with some of the people finding out they would not have the opportunity to speak, they took it upon themselves to be heard.
	The White House staff and CNN did not have as much control as they thought they would.
	At times, the questioning was tough.
	If Saddam was watching, He may have gotten the impression that Clinton does not have the backing of the American people, which may cause him not to budge at the bargaining table.
	Thank you, Vince, in Lee's Summit, Missouri.
	Right in the middle of this whole thing that was going on in Columbus, I got a call from Marshall Barnes, a member of the press, who was Actually, at the event itself, and Marshall said, you can't imagine what's going on.
	You're not seeing it.
	During the breaks, there are incredible things going on.
	People are being dragged out.
	And I was actually watching, even though the microphones didn't pick up all that was going on in the crowd by a long shot, it was easy to read between the lines.
	Looking at the very tight jaw of Madeleine Albright, which got tighter and tighter and tighter, even Defense Secretary Cohen was obviously really, really miffed.
	And so, I've got somebody who was there today, Marshall Barnes, and in a moment we're going to bring him on and we're going to let him tell you what really happened at Columbus today.
	And also, I would like to restrict my east of the Rockies line right now.
	To people in Columbus, Ohio who were also present at this event.
	So if that's you, call me now and everybody else kind of hold off and let people get through.
	East of the Rockies, specifically Columbus, at 1-800-825-5033.
	1-800-825-5033, Columbus only.
	Thank you.
	So all of that in a moment, 11 o'clock tonight, Dr. Ronald Klatz will be talking about immortality and cloning.
	Alright, again with Columbus, Ohio and the town meeting.
	I was sitting there during the whole thing watching on CNN, shaking my head saying, oh God, this is, you know, this is really getting out of control.
	You couldn't hear it all the time.
	Sometimes you could hear it very clearly, but I was saying, this is getting really, really out of control.
	And that's when the phone rang, and there was Marshall Barnes, a journalist, a credentialed journalist, there at the event.
	Here is Marshall Barnes.
	Marshall, welcome to the program.
	Hi.
	Where are you, Marshall?
	Right now, I'm still in Columbus.
	Columbus, okay.
	You called me, oh, I don't know, maybe a little past midway through the thing, and you said, man, this thing is really out of control.
	What was going on?
	Well, basically what was going on at that point is that CNN almost lost complete control of the whole show.
	And the reason I called you is because I knew that the rest of America wasn't seeing what was happening, because it took place during a commercial break.
	And then when they rebroadcasted the show this evening, I watched it, and sure enough, plenty of things happened.
	Where was it?
	How was it going wrong in your opinion?
	In other words, there were a lot of people shouting and cursing.
	during the show where CNN almost lost complete control over it.
	I mean it was, I couldn't believe it.
	Where was it, how was it going wrong in your opinion?
	In other words, there were a lot of people shouting and cursing.
	Well let me set it up for you so you understand.
	See I was there really to cover the press conference.
	And the press conference was just for the media only, and it was to happen before the town meeting.
	After the press conference was over, then it was time for the media to go to the town meeting, which was at an arena right next door to the facility that had the press conference.
	Right.
	And I almost didn't even go.
	I mean, because we just figured it was going to be one of these typical TV show town meeting kind of things.
	And basically, You know, the dignitaries are going to just rattle off the same rhetoric we'd already heard a million times before.
	And the pre-sell of these things, Marshall, is usually that the questioners are picked out beforehand, everybody knows what they're going to be asked, and all the rest of it.
	That obviously was not the case.
	Well, actually, to a certain degree it was the case, but one of the problems that arose is the fact that A lot of the passes were given out to political science students.
	I guess the thinking was that these would be people that would ask or be particularly interested in the subject and be fairly astute or whatever, but they forgot that a lot of political science students are pretty cynical about the U.S.
	government.
	Yes.
	And particularly with this particular subject matter, I mean, it was a total, complete miscalculation, not only in who was there, because there's a lot of people who are just average people there, too.
	But even in terms of how they thought it was all going to go down and how little control they felt they needed to have over the program.
	CNN made a big deal about the fact that they exclusively had it, got it, was because they have coverage in over 200 countries and specifically Saddam Hussein watches CNN.
	Right.
	Now, I got a fax earlier that said if Saddam was watching He may have gotten the impression that Clinton does not have the backing of the American people.
	Would you agree with that?
	Oh yeah, sure, and he doesn't.
	I mean, if this event was any indicator, and it probably is, he really doesn't.
	Because let me explain to you something that happened, because there's a lot of people who weren't there, like Bill Maher, I'm politically incorrect, who I just saw tonight talking about, there was only 12 protesters.
	There's like close to 50 people that were actually protesting there.
	It wasn't just 12.
	There was a full third of the audience that seemed to be sympathizing with the protestors.
	Well, you could gather that just from listening to the applause and the boos.
	Exactly, exactly.
	Now, let me give you an idea of what their audience was really like.
	There seemed to be about a third of them that were definitely for the protestors, a third that were kind of ambivalent, and then about another third of the audience that was against the protestors.
	However, this is where things get really interesting.
	Regardless of how the political spectrum was, like whether the person was a pacifist, or like, let's go bomb the heck out of Iraq, the main thing that everyone can agree upon, and this is where the Clinton administration has a big problem, is that everyone wants to dom out of there.
	But the Clinton administration does not want to dom out of there.
	They just want to try to contain him.
	And you might recall, there was a gentleman there that was a World War II veteran.
	He was practically in tears.
	Who said, we better not do this.
	Are we going to do it another half-assed way?
	Exactly.
	And the thing about it is, that is exactly what the three dignitaries were telling the audience, one year or another, that we're not going to take out Saddam Hussein.
	We're just going to try to take away his weapons.
	Well, everyone, from the pacifists to the people who were like, yeah, let's go to war.
	They were saying, well, that means we're going to have to go back again.
	That's right.
	And so as a result, regardless of how they expressed themselves, the audience as a whole was against the, you know, the presentation or the message.
	They were not satisfied with it.
	And that's why the Clinton administration has a major problem.
	Who was providing security for the event?
	Okay, that's a good question.
	there are multiple levels of security from various law enforcement agencies.
	There were secret service, there were Franklin County Sheriff's deputies,
	there was the diplomatic protection services, I think it is.
	There was also Ohio Highway Patrol intelligence people there,
	and there was probably one other one.
	Oh, Ohio State University police.
	All right. When they went to break, particularly early on when they were getting a lot of the shouting,
	There were some people drived out of there, weren't there?
	Okay, yeah, and this is partially CNN's fault.
	The one guy who ended up finally getting a chance to speak at the very end, his name is Rick Price, and what happened was, before, he was up and wanting to ask a question, but CCN were screening people.
	If they didn't like the question you were going to ask, they weren't letting you speak.
	So they were trying to censor this thing.
	This thing was supposed to be a pre-packaged, you know, a product that's a spoon feed to the American public, okay?
	Basically using the audience in Columbus as the people they were trying to feed, okay?
	But basically what was happening was because of the way it was handled, I mean, it was basically like a baby spitting the food right back in your face.
	And what happened with the Rick Tice situation is that he wasn't allowed to speak.
	He's going, why can't I talk?
	And at first he thought he was going to be able to talk.
	Then he shut off his mic.
	And then a big argument ensued.
	And Bernard Cashaw came over and got in his face even.
	And then he ended up getting dragged out by an Ohio Highway Patrol intelligence guy and some of the Secret Service and some of the other people.
	And he wasn't arrested though.
	He was taken out into the lobby.
	There were, at that point, were OSU police.
	And some other security con people, they were just watching and making sure everything didn't get out of hand, so the big argument ensued between Rick Tice and a producer from CNN.
	And he said, look, this woman said, I can't speak, and I was in line to talk at the microphone.
	So the guy from CNN basically said, all right, we'll let you get back in there again, and you will have a chance to speak.
	Well, the whole poor rest of the program went by, and they were going to try to keep him from speaking again, until he finally got to say something at the very end.
	So that was he got dragged out.
	There's another guy who actually got arrested.
	And by the way, let me add, they got him outside after the event.
	I don't know whether you saw that or not.
	Oh yeah.
	And they asked him what it was that he wanted to drive home.
	And it was that we are, that it's a color issue, that we are attacking People of color.
	And if they were our color, we wouldn't be attacking them.
	And that was the message he wanted to drive home.
	Well, that's different from what he said in the lobby, because I actually, we, myself, and other people from major media were talking to him.
	He said, at that point, that the major thing he wanted to get across was that, you know, he's not trying to offend Saddam, but by going over there and bombing these people, we're not hurting him.
	We're just hurting the people.
	Right.
	And unless we get rid of Saddam, it's not going to mean anything.
	We just keep going back over and over and over again.
	And the people who are paying the price are the Iraqi people.
	That's what he was saying then.
	And so you have the definite impression that, not by a long shot, does this administration have the backing of the American people to go to war?
	Well, this is how I want to couch this, okay?
	It's because of the end result.
	In other words, The people that even say we should bomb Iraq, they want it to be over with.
	In other words, they don't want to just blow up all his stuff and then have to, another year or so later, go back and do it again and do it again because they know that that's what they're going to have to do.
	The Secretary of Defense, William Cohen, supposedly said that's all we're trying to do is contain him.
	And Madeleine Albright said the same thing.
	Danny Berger said the same thing.
	And it's like, people are sick of this.
	I mean, that whole audience was sick of it.
	There was a guy, in fact, not Senior Berger, but Secretary of Defense William Cohen, said that he didn't want to do a ground war thing to get Saddam Hussein out of there because it would cause too many casualties among the armed services.
	And money.
	Huh?
	And money.
	Right.
	Well, not only that, but this is the deal.
	They got a phone call from Mannheim, Germany, and it was a soldier over there who said, look, if that's what it takes to just get rid of this guy, I'll be the first one to die for it.
	Let me tell you something, Marshall.
	I'm one of those people.
	My little tour was in Vietnam, thank you.
	And that bastard Johnson choreographed that war in anguishing, murderous detail from the White House.
	And I am of the view that if you're going to have a war, which is one issue if you're going to go to war, then by God, go to war, get the job done, And get the hell out, and have a real victory.
	Don't just try to suppress somebody, because you really want to keep him around, because you really need him around, to keep some sort of stability in the region, because you don't want his country to dissolve into a civil war.
	So I too am one of those people, and it seems to me, Marshall, what we had in Columbus, instead of the usual choreographed BS, Was we actually had a rude, albeit rude, but real town meeting.
	What do you think?
	Absolutely.
	You agree with that?
	Absolutely.
	All right.
	Hold on, Marshall.
	We'll be right back.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm Art Bell, and we'll be right back.
	the kingdom of Nigh. This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Now, here again is Art.
	Once again, here I am.
	Good morning, everybody.
	Great to be here.
	We are discussing what occurred in Columbus, Ohio earlier today.
	It was a remarkable, remarkable event in many senses.
	For example, it was real.
	It was disruptive.
	It was democracy in action.
	Or, it was a rude interruption of cabinet-level officials, depending on your point of view.
	Again, I am holding my East of the Rockies line open for anybody in Columbus, Ohio, who attended this event today, who would like to comment.
	That number is 1-800-825-5033.
	Everybody else, please refrain.
	5-5-0-3-3, everybody else, please refrain.
	We have a journalist, Marshall Barnes, who was there for the event and is telling us
	what went on during the breaks.
	All right, now back to Marshall Barnes in Columbus, Ohio, where they had this absolutely remarkable town meeting, which, by the way, is being replayed as we speak on CNN.
	It is being replayed right now, and it was in every way remarkable.
	Marshall, welcome back to the program.
	Thank you.
	Again, if you can give us some idea For example, it was bad enough when they had the cameras and mics rolling, but during the breaks, we of course did not get to see what occurred.
	And I would have imagined that the participants themselves, or the CNN anchor, or somebody or another, would have tried to get control of the crowd.
	So, during those breaks, what was going on?
	Well, basically, what happened was this.
	When the whole thing got started, it kind of got started on a shaky level, anyway, because before the show went on, they had problems with some of the sound systems and stuff like that.
	And, you know, I was with a bunch of reporters from, like, the Associated Press, New York Times, Cleveland Plain Viewer.
	I mean, seasoned people.
	We're just all kind of sitting around thinking, like, okay, are they going to get the show on the road here or what?
	But we weren't expecting anything unique.
	Then, once they started to get the show on the road, Then the protesting, some of the protesting started and they were having problems with some of the people.
	There was some confusion going on.
	And as the thing went along, it started to get a little bit worse.
	And then, that's when I talked to you about the guy that ended up getting taken out and then they brought him back in.
	That was Rick Price.
	What happened during that break is literally, they almost lost control of the whole show.
	In fact, Bernard Shaw came out and he said, look, This show is 90 minutes, and we're not going to, or it's going to stay 90 minutes, we're not going to, you know, you're not going to shut the show down.
	I mean, he actually had, you know, Bernard Shaw actually had to come out and say that himself.
	He was getting really angry.
	Sometimes, you know, during one of the, later on in the program, when they, they went back to him, you could kind of see his face.
	It was tense.
	Um, but they, oh, I mean, I was remarking to a reporter from the Akron Deacon Journal, I said, oh my God, they might just lose this whole thing.
	I mean, it was at that point.
	At the second commercial break that they did, we were wondering whether or not they would be able to continue it.
	What were you thinking was going to happen?
	Okay, this is what we thought was going to happen.
	In other words, how out of control could it have been?
	Okay, here's what I think happened.
	The security was not prepared for an unruly audience at all.
	They just thought it was going to be your average, typical thing, and all they'd have to look for is maybe The possibility of somebody trying to do something crazy, you know, like the Secret Service tries to protect against it all the time anyway.
	Sure.
	So just regular security stuff.
	Instead, what ended up happening is, with the way that people were getting upset with the CNN personnel and things like this, they almost got to a position where, instead of like maybe one or two people they have to worry about, they almost had a riot on their hands.
	I mean, it was like that.
	I was watching security people, because I'm an investigator, too, and I do things with law enforcement, And I always look at the big picture at events like this.
	And they started moving, as the show went further, they started moving security people to different parts of the auditorium to try to individually get some of the people that were like, you know, heckling and things like that.
	But they were being very careful about how they went about doing it because, I mean, it could have turned into something That they were just totally lost the whole time.
	I was watching Albright and Cohen very closely and both of them had very tight jaws and they looked, you know, I don't want to say worried.
	I'm not sure if they were angry, if they were... Albright was definitely angry.
	She was angry?
	Absolutely.
	No question about it.
	Because they were hitting her with really tough questions.
	And see, Cohen, if anything about it was Cohen had gotten hit with a question from out of nowhere.
	By me at the press conference before this thing happened in the first place.
	What did you ask him?
	It was great.
	You would have loved it because it had to do with remote viewing and SciTech and all that stuff.
	I'll read the question.
	My reason for going there was to ask him this question.
	The question I asked him was, and this is verbatim, it says, Mr. Secretary, since Saddam could have since moved
	his weapons, and in view of your support of military remote viewing at Fort Meade when you were a senator from
	May in 1988, do you plan to have the remote viewing firm SciTech, which located Iraqi weapon depots for the UN in
	1991, do the same for this operation?
	And if no, why not?
	And he was like, where is this coming from?
	I mean, it was really funny.
	In fact, I had reporters come up to me afterwards say, wow, that was a really great question, because it was
	something from out of the past that he wasn't even expecting.
	Did he make any attempt to answer it?
	Oh, absolutely.
	He answered it.
	What did he say?
	Basically what he said was that, to paraphrase it, was that he said that they have capabilities right now to monitor what Saddam Hussein is doing and those are sufficient at this time.
	So basically it was kind of like saying, no, we're not going to use sidetracks if you're doing remote viewing.
	But he didn't come out and say, no, we're not going to do it.
	But that was basically where he was coming from.
	But it was a funny, he had this expression on his face, like, oh my God, who the hell is this guy?
	It was pretty funny.
	That's what I came to do.
	I knew it was going to be a press conference with just the media.
	I was there for that.
	And then I almost didn't even get bothered going to the town meeting because we thought it was going to be like, you know, one of those things on Nightline.
	I mean, everyone did.
	the entire uh... this is a really it's really important
	is that the initial week uh... the people that were actually there from the
	media whether local regional or national
	were totally blown away everyone was taken by surprise by what was happening
	now i was interested in seeing what spin they were going to put on it
	and they really the spin uh... by the way did you see it i saw
	of course cnn went back to their anchors after the event and they were very very defensive
	about the whole thing.
	Oh yeah, because they were shaken up.
	They didn't know what to put on it at that moment, because they were still in shock.
	And then they had to also deal with questions about the other media networks that were excluded from the event, and they had to note that a lot of them were very angry.
	Oh yeah, and then on top of that, what happened was the media By the way, you and I were talking about different people.
	and they were writing their headlines.
	In fact, one woman from a college newspaper said, Jerry Springer couldn't have done a better show.
	And in fact, the CNN producer who dealt with Rick Tice and said, well, he could get back into the auditorium.
	By the way, you and I were talking about different people.
	I was talking about a darker man.
	In fact, I'll leave out the black man who was interviewed by CNN after the event.
	Yeah, there was no black guy that was taken out of the auditorium by force.
	Yeah, okay, alright.
	So we were talking about different people.
	Right, okay.
	Yeah, but the CNN producer that had dealt with Rick Tice and let him go back into the auditorium after the show was over with, he said, well, it's daytime TV, you know, and you know, that's what happened.
	But you know, they were all in shock.
	Well, what would you imagine the reaction in Baghdad to be?
	What would you imagine the reaction in Washington?
	I'm sure loved it.
	I mean, I'm sure he loved it.
	But see, the thing that he has to realize is this.
	Just because there was a bunch of protests and some people were saying we shouldn't go to war and all that kind of stuff over this thing.
	He's got to realize that this is that the majority of people in that auditorium Pretty much when he's dead.
	In other words, the CIA said, look, we're going to do a wet operation.
	We're going to have some guys go in there in the middle of the night and we're going to rig his vehicle so that when he, you know, goes for a drive the next time, the Axles go out and he wrecks and gets killed or something.
	Sure.
	Everyone said, cool.
	You know, the main reason why people, there was a difference in there is because the fact that the pacifists don't want Well, the other problem is, of course, that Saddam Hussein does not understand democracy.
	Oh, that's right.
	And he never will.
	end of the scale there are people who feel like we've got to do something to them
	but they're unsatisfied because they know they're going to have to do it again and they don't want
	to so everyone, although they have different views of the problem,
	they all agree what the problem is.
	The problem is Saddam Hussein is there.
	And the other problem is of course Saddam Hussein does not understand democracy.
	Oh that's right and he never will.
	He doesn't care and the thing is we're going to have to go back even though Sandy Berger
	and William Collins try to make it sound like, you know, that by doing this particular attack we could rest easy.
	At different times, they let it slip that we might have to go back again just to try to destroy his weapons, and people were sick of that.
	Did you get the impression that on the several occasions that the National Security Advisor Sandy Berger got to speak, that Madeleine Albright and William Cohen were How can I put this?
	Concerned about his delivery?
	No.
	I don't think so because, no, I didn't pick that up at all.
	If they look like they were concerned about anything, it's just the fact that, for example, even the people that look like conservative and like normal, average people, okay, like they hope would have been there, they were asked and pointed questions.
	I mean, this one girl stood up and goes, well, you know, what's going to stop him from rebuilding his arsenal over again?
	I mean, you know, everyone, that's why I was saying, regardless of how you're going to hear other media, particularly media that weren't even there, like Bill Maher from Politically Incorrect, spin this thing, the bottom line is this.
	They had no real support for their ultimate program, which was basically just to maintain Yeah, to bat them down and have to go back again, our sons or our grandsons, to do it again.
	Right.
	There was no support for that at all.
	In fact, the people were fed up with it.
	And that's why I think that the heckling was even tolerated, as long as it was, by other members of the audience.
	I mean, it was a rough crowd all the way around, whether the people were being rude or not, because the questions were all rough.
	There was no one saying, yeah, we think this is exactly what you need to do, and this is the way to do it.
	No one felt that way at all.
	How, how really rude was it?
	If you were to divide it up, how, what percentage of people were actually being rude versus those who were trying to ask some sort of, albeit tough, but legitimate question?
	There was probably, oh, I mean, there was probably about 20 some odd to 30 some odd people that were actually being rude from time to time.
	In terms of protest, sometimes it might have gone up to a minute and fifty, but, you know, that was about it.
	The, um, but the rest of it was, you know, you could tell by, when someone made a comment about, like, you know, why can't we just stop them, or this isn't going to fix anything, so, you know, we need to come up with another answer, the applause was there.
	I mean, like, you know, regardless of whether people were being rude or not, it wasn't selling.
	What they were trying to sell, the American people there at that meeting, It was getting rejected.
	All right.
	Marshall, I asked you what you thought the reaction in Baghdad would be now.
	What do you think the reaction is like, and the talk is like, and the discussion is like, and reaction is like in the White House this morning?
	Well, I think Clinton's like, well, in fact I've already heard from He's actually in Washington, D.C.
	Would that be Wolf Blitzer?
	Yeah, that's it.
	Wolf Blitzer.
	He said that the word there is that obviously it backfired and they're trying to figure out how to fix it.
	I imagine that what might happen since they're going to do other,
	I guess they're going to do other town meetings, there's going to be a lot of effort in advance
	to try to like be nicer and try to show Columbus up and make us look like, you know,
	make the Columbus situation look like it was just a bunch of rowdy people and blah, blah, blah, blah.
	Well, it's a heart, it was a heartland.
	I know, but that's the thing, it was a heartland.
	So there's going to be a lot of distortion.
	In other words, right now, as of this moment, a lot of the material that's come
	out in terms of news reports is pretty true and on target.
	After this, it's been controlled.
	It's definitely going to go in.
	And they're going to start distorting the whole issue, like Bill Maher was doing, like saying it was only 12 people.
	It wasn't only 12 people.
	I mean, you're talking about a big auditorium.
	It's 360 degrees around in terms of the audience.
	So you never saw all of who was doing what, particularly because a lot of times, they weren't doing close-ups of those people on the camera.
	So you would have a shot where you would see what was going on on the platform, but there are these people behind the camera doing things, people beyond the camera view to the left doing things, and they never did see what was going on, unless they were actually there.
	So what we saw on TV and what you saw in person?
	It was totally different.
	Totally different.
	Yeah, and what you saw on TV was probably about 20 to 30 percent of what it was really like.
	I mean, that's basically... Well, it must have been pretty wild for you to pick up a cellular, I presume, or whatever, and call me right in the middle of the event.
	When I called you, Art, I thought that they were going to lose control of the whole thing.
	I thought they were going to lose it.
	And I knew that we were on a commercial break at the time, because there was a live monitor set up, and I could see it from where I was sitting.
	I was sitting up above.
	I was not all the way at the top, but I was up pretty high.
	And so I could get a good view of everything that was going on all around the auditorium.
	And one of the things I saw was this monitor.
	And when things really started going crazy, that's when we were on a commercial break.
	And I said, man, I've got to get a hold of our bell.
	Because I know, I knew you'd been talking about this kind of thing for a while.
	And, you know, I knew this, what was happening at that moment wasn't on the air.
	Marshal, since you're so involved with this, let me ask you a speculative question.
	The Secretary General of the UN, as you know, is sort of making this last-ditch mission to Baghdad to talk to Saddam.
	Is it your impression that this is just going through the motions, and we're going to war, or do you think there is a very real possibility that he'll come back with some kind of solution?
	There may be, you may come back to some kind of solution.
	Madeleine Albright, though, and Sandy Berger, we kept hinting at, it's got to be practically everything we want, though.
	But this is one thing I will remind you, is that before, I remember, early in the Clinton administration, we looked like we were going to go to war against Korea.
	And we looked like we were going to go to war against Haiti, although we did invade Haiti, but it was like, it wasn't really a war.
	I mean, we just kind of went in there.
	But at the last minute, People came in and kind of like cooled things out and we didn't really do that.
	And so this may be one of the situations where maybe the UN Secretary General can actually accomplish something.
	Maybe.
	But see, I don't know.
	After what happened on Columbus Day, Saddam may just laugh at the whole thing.
	And just kind of, like, blow him off.
	You're calling it Columbus Day?
	No, I just said, after what happened in Columbus... Oh, I see.
	I've got you.
	Okay.
	Yeah, after what happened in Columbus today, Saddam may just kind of blow off the U.N.
	Secretary General and, you know, and feel like he doesn't really have to worry about it.
	But what he should realize is that, you know, if Clinton really wants to go ahead and do this and attack Iraq, he'll do it.
	But I'll tell you something else.
	A lot of people were afraid of what might happen if he did do it, in terms of other kinds of things that might go into action, like a chain reaction kind of a thing, in response to that, like counterterrorism attacks against the United States, with any other countries maybe coming to Don's aid, you know, those kind of things.
	And so, you know, there was a lot of There's a lot of questions about how good of an alliance or coalition do we have this time, because there's a lot of reports that none of the countries over there near Iraq want us to do it.
	Even Qatar has turned us down.
	Right, you know, and people are bringing these kinds of issues.
	So, I mean, all of it was like, you know, there's people concerned on all different points of this particular issue, so that there wasn't any kind of a You know, they had no group that was definitely for them.
	Even the people that said, well, if we have to do it, let's do it, had concerns and problems with what the plan was.
	Then the American people tonight should be aware, Marshall, that what they saw on TV was far from the whole story.
	Absolutely.
	And that the American people on this issue With the exception of, if we're going to do it, let's really do it, are utterly divided.
	I'll tell you one other thing that added to this whole feeling is the ABC special on what the CIA was doing to try to get rid of Saddam.
	And when it showed that they didn't support the Democratic opposition against Saddam, and instead were trying to do a military coup to get rid of Saddam, and it failed, and they let the Democratic opposition over there get wiped out by the Iraqi army, that was like You know, I mean, again, see, it's like, most people just want to get rid of Saddam, and they don't, so they don't have to do all this other stuff.
	I know.
	Marshall, we're out, listen, we're out of time.
	We're out of time.
	So, thank you for the inside view, my friend.
	No problem.
	You take care.
	That's Marshall Barnes in Columbus, Ohio.
	Well this is Coast to Coast Air.
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	702-727-1222.
	Now, here again is Art.
	Well, good morning.
	We spent the last hour with Marshall Barnes, who was a journalist at the Town Hall Ruckus in Columbus, Ohio.
	And we've got the real story of what really went on there.
	How would you like to live forever?
	Hmm?
	Is time a factor?
	How about being young forever?
	We're going to discuss that.
	We're going to discuss cloning and much more with Dr. Ronald Klaps.
	Coming up in a moment.
	Dr. Ronald Klatz is recognized as the leading authority on the science of anti-aging medicine.
	Now, that's a pretty heavy statement.
	Recognized as the leading authority in the science of anti-aging medicine.
	He is founder and president of the non-profit public foundation American Longevity Research Institute.
	He has pioneered the exploration of new therapies For the Treatment and Prevention of Aging-Related Degenerative Disease.
	In his capacity as the President of the Scientific Medical Society, American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine, Dr. Klatz has the latest in the advances in biotechnology, preventative health care, as well as overseeing medical education programs for more than 1,500 physicians and scientists from 37 countries.
	Recipient of numerous awards and achievements, such as the INVEX Humanitarian Award,
	his research has advanced the cause of preventative health care throughout the world.
	And as an advisor to several members of the U.S.
	Congress and other players on Capitol Hill, he has looked to for answers to the rising cost of health
	care in America.
	So he is very well qualified to speak on the subject of aging
	and a possible immortality.
	Here is Dr. Klatz.
	Doctor, welcome to the program.
	It's my great pleasure to be on your show, Art.
	You're very well respected in many different circles, including some scientific ones as well.
	Well, thank you.
	Where are you located, Doctor?
	Well, I'm with the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine right now.
	I'm at their headquarters in Chicago, Illinois.
	Alright.
	I heard Somebody, I think, wrote to me about you and they said that Dr. Klatz believes that if you can stay alive for the next 30 years, make it 30 years, that there is some great possibility that we may stop the clock at about that point.
	Any truth to that?
	There's a great deal of truth to that statement, Art.
	The technologies that are under development right now by biomedical technology companies in the United States and around the world are bearing unbelievably exciting fruits.
	Technologies that literally will allow us to reset the very genetic programming within the cells itself.
	And by doing such, we will be able to eliminate most, if not all, the degenerative diseases of aging that we have come to expect as normal consequences of the aging process.
	I recently read a book called The Miracle Strain.
	I don't know whether you've had a chance to read that or not.
	No, I haven't.
	Basically, it suggested, it was a work of fiction, but it looked at Those people that have had spontaneous remissions with cancer, with AIDS, with other otherwise abnormally fatal diseases, and looked to the genetic reason why these spontaneous remissions would occur, and actually went pretty far out on a fictional limb and talked about the genetic structure of Jesus, who was said to be able to perform miracles and heal,
	And it all came together in the end.
	But basically, it was all centered around genetics and little switches that turn on and off.
	And I'm not certain that I understand the whole thing very well.
	But is that basically where the answer lies?
	Well, that's part of the answer.
	There's a project going on right now that's very heavily funded by both the US government and by The pharmaceutical industry called the Human Genome Project, and what they're doing is they're actually mapping out all the on and off switches of all the genes in the human body.
	And they're ahead of schedule.
	They were supposed to be done by 2005.
	It looks like they're going to be done probably by 2000, 2001.
	And what that is, is it's very exciting.
	We're talking about actually having a roadmap of which genes in the body control which processes Which diseases are controlled where, and how not only to detect diseases very early on, I mean as much as 15 years before they're ever clinically apparent, but being able to create new drug therapies and new genetic therapies that will cure virtually almost every degenerative disease that mankind is heir to at this time.
	And so the technologies behind this, from both genetic engineering, from hormone replacement therapy, from antioxidant supplementation, these things are very, very exciting technologies, because in the laboratory, what it's allowing us to do is take laboratory animals and give them an extra 50%, 75%, 100%, 200%, and in some cases as much as 500% longer lifespan.
	We're doing that now?
	100%, 200%, and in some cases, as much as 500% longer lifespan.
	God.
	We're doing that now?
	We're doing it right now.
	How much, at the end, when the human genome is completely mapped, how much of life extension
	at that point, when we can act on it, would you ascribe to genetics versus other environmental
	factors.
	Well, let me...
	Is there a way to guess at that?
	Sure, I'm happy to, but let me answer it a different way, if I could.
	You know, if you lead a clean life, and you exercise regularly, and you eat right, and you have a good attitude about the world, and you drive a big car, and you're nice to your neighbor, and you have a dog, and all those kind of good things, you can expect to live a healthful lifespan of about 75 to 85 years.
	Right.
	If you add on top of that optimum Antioxidant protection, which goes beyond just eating right, but taking the right vitamins and nutrients.
	You can possibly add on another 10 years, so you might make it to about 95 years of age and in good shape.
	If you add on top of that hormone replacement therapy, which you've heard in the news about DHEA and melatonin, human growth hormone, estrogen, testosterone, you may be able to make it to about 120.
	Now, that's probably the limit of the maximum human lifespan that is available to most of us.
	Alright, what about, for example, the lady who recently died at 118 or 120, I can't recall.
	Jean Calmet in France.
	She was 122.
	Thank you.
	And she had quit smoking about a year earlier, I believe.
	That's right.
	She was a regular smoker and she was eating chocolates and she drank cognac on a daily
	basis and so I guess there's a lot of that kind of goes to Woody Allen and sleeper.
	You know that the secret to long life is tobacco and chocolate.
	Well it does at least raise a reasonable question that I would love you to try to answer and
	that is how come?
	Thank you.
	Well, she had excellent genetics, she was very lucky, and she had a great attitude, and we don't know why else.
	But my point is that people can live to be 120 with just what God gives them.
	When we add on top of that the wonders of modern technology, life expectancy may be unlimited.
	So in 30 years, by 2000, 2001, we will have our genes mapped.
	When will we be able to, in a practical sense, begin to utilize the information that we have gathered?
	probably another ten to fifteen years after that time by say two thousand
	two thousand ten two thousand fifteen two thousand twenty at the very latest
	we will have uh... reliable methods
	to actually reset our genetic endowment
	there are the very beginnings of this technology these gene therapies available
	today and they're being used experimentally in people who have
	uh...
	diabetes and uh... muscular dystrophy and some other genetic diseases
	but uh... the tools to actually go in and reset the genes specifically to optimize
	your metabolism uh... those technologies are probably about twenty years
	out maybe a little bit less you know uh...
	uh... i'm always uh... you know i say things that sound pretty extreme
	but in my history i was the former medical editor of longevity magazine
	if you remember that or not.
	That was a very popular national magazine.
	You know, I've been making predictions for the last 10 years or so, and I'm always amazed at myself, Mike, wow, these predictions turn out to be conservative and with the benefit of hindsight.
	All right, well I, like much of my audience, I'm 52 now, will be 53 in June, and in 20 years I'll just be getting ready to retire.
	What do I have to look forward to in terms of what genetic therapy could do for me Well, you're 52 now.
	Let's say it takes another 20 years for these technologies to become full-blown.
	So you'll be 72.
	Now, if you take good care of yourself, you could be a great 72.
	I mean, you could be running marathons if you really set your mind to it.
	But let's assume that you can make it to 72 and you're intact.
	You don't have a horrible degenerative disease.
	You know, a heart that's ready to fall apart, your brain is still, you know, mostly intact.
	Then we're talking about at age 72 being able to certainly slow the aging process dramatically, though I believe that can be accomplished today, and I'll talk about that in a little bit.
	All right.
	But certainly be able to slow the aging process dramatically and probably, almost certainly, be able to turn back the clock.
	Being able to take you from a 72-year-old right on back to a healthy and vital and athletic 50-year-old.
	Wow.
	And this is a 45-year-old.
	Wow.
	Really?
	Yeah, so it's worth living.
	I mean, the future is really a pretty exciting time.
	And this is not science fiction we're talking about either.
	I'm talking about more scientific facts.
	How would that manifest itself?
	In other words, I'm trying to close my eyes and imagine me at 72, which I can.
	I can project my wrinkles.
	Well, then just open your eyes and look in the mirror and you're back to where you are now.
	So, in other words... You're in a little bit better shape than you are now.
	Really?
	What medically could accomplish that possibly?
	I mean, what can you imagine that would be done that would do that?
	Okay, well let's look at why you age in the first place.
	There are several mechanisms involved, but one of the major mechanisms involved in why you age is that the hormonal messages that tell your cell what speed to be at, that control kind of the thermostat within
	your cell.
	These are hormonal in nature.
	These are controlled by things such as thyroid hormone, by insulin, by human growth hormone,
	by testosterone.
	Even though men do thrive on testosterone, there's still some aspirin that affects the
	cells.
	I mean, there's a whole symphony of hormones that are secreted by the endocrine system
	and also from the brain that basically are the pacemakers of youth.
	And the difference between a young person and an old person, by and large, not completely, but to a large extent, is the amount of these hormones that are in circulation, as well as the receptivity of the cells to these hormones.
	How many cell receptors there are, how sensitive the cells are to these hormones.
	And so a very interesting thing is going on in anti-aging medicine right now today.
	It's called hormone replacement therapy.
	And what we're doing is we're taking these hormones of youth and giving them to older people and an incredible thing happens.
	Older people start acting, start feeling, start performing at a younger level.
	They start looking younger, feeling younger, performing at a much younger level.
	Wrinkles disappear.
	People's energy levels increase.
	They start losing body fat effortlessly.
	They start gaining lean body muscle mass and bone mass effortlessly.
	Okay, this implies a cellular change.
	Now, I was understood that at some point, maybe you can tell me what it is, as we, from the moment we are born, at some point, more cells begin to die than are regenerated.
	Is that correct?
	That's true.
	That's about, well it depends on the organ system.
	Your brain stops growing, you know, your nervous system stops growing early in life and you stop producing new muscle tissue as you get, you know, new muscle cells anyway.
	Very early in life, but basically you're in a state of catabolism by about age 25 from a metabolic point of view.
	So from 25 on, it's pretty much downhill.
	That's correct.
	Without intervention.
	That's right.
	However, with growth factors, that we're talking about, these hormonal growth factors, you can pretty much flatten out the curve.
	Flatten it out.
	One thing that we have not done much with, nor do we seem to understand very well, Yes, it is.
	is cancer. Cancer is the out-of-control cellular growth that occurs at various places in the
	body. Is that a fair statement?
	Yes, it is. It's a runaway growth of cells within the body.
	These cells lose their capacity to communicate with one another and to moderate their
	growth cycles, and they just grow out of control until they choke off the other cells. Eventually,
	they end up killing the organism that they live in because they're just drawing
	away too much of the nutrients and too much of the blood supply. Too many other things are
	going on.
	But is it not possible to speculate that as we get close to an understanding and or cure
	of cancer, we will be able to control the growth of cells?
	We approach also immortality.
	Well it's interesting you mention that because that is a very fertile area of research right now in anti-aging because certainly cancer cells are immortal.
	They don't know when to stop.
	Exactly.
	And they go on forever and so it's the cellular control mechanisms involved in cancer that are very exciting areas for those of us in anti-aging medicine to study So that we can learn how to turn on and turn off the different cells of our body and perhaps regrow new brain tissue, regrow new muscle tissue, regrow new organs, and also how to interrupt the process of cancer, how to turn off that cell, that runaway cell division.
	Or better yet, just simply control and target the cellular reproduction.
	That's absolutely correct.
	So, that would be it.
	If we could do that, we would then be immortal.
	What about, you're a physician, you're a scientist... Well, that's also one of the reasons why I write in... I have several books out, but I write in my books that we expect to have cancer essentially controlled within the next 15 to 20 years, because we're now looking at new drugs that do just that, that are able to reach in and control the cellular mechanisms of of cancer and actually, you know, turn on the brakes, so to speak, with these cancerous growths.
	And these are controlling compounds and controlling chemicals for the cells of the body.
	So we're looking forward to a much brighter future in the cancer picture, in the very near future.
	Doctor, what is your opinion of hydrazine sulfate as a control for cancer in terminal stages?
	Well, Dr. Gold is a very interesting fellow, and he has brought forth hydrazine sulfate from research in the Soviet Union, and it's very interesting that this compound has a beneficial effect, or at least a reported beneficial effect, in people with cancer.
	Apparently, it Inhibits the cachexia or the nausea and the lack of appetite that is seen in cancer patients.
	Most cancer patients don't die from their cancer.
	They waste away.
	Exactly.
	They just waste away.
	They die of malnutrition.
	And insofar as hydrazine sulfate is able to kind of get around that problem, these people are able to maintain their nutritional balance.
	And give themselves a fighting chance, or give their immune systems a fighting chance, because many of the people who have had these remissions from cancer have come back from the later stages of cancer, because the body... Cancer is a very tricky item, and cancers are able to mask themselves from the immune system of our bodies.
	That's how they're able to grow unfettered.
	And it's sometimes in the latest stages of cancer, when cancer suddenly, the immune system All right, Doctor.
	Hold tight right there.
	We're at the bottom of the hour, which is where we must break clockwise, and we'll be right back.
	patients is really a positive a positive effect. All right doctor hold tight right
	there we're at the bottom of the hour which is where we must break clockwise
	and we'll be right back my guest is Dr. Ronald Klass who says hey out there if
	you can hang on another 30 years you just might be around forever.
	Immortality.
	This is Coast to Coast AF.
	Oh, he made this way.
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	Can't save a life.
	He's through the day, he's out at night.
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	Take the long way home Never see what you wanna see
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	And do things that are Oh, forgotten
	Take the long way home Call Art Bell in the...
	in the kingdom of nigh on the wild card line at area code 702 727 1295. That's area code
	702 727 1295. This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Alright, back now to Dr. Klatz. Doctor, I don't want to bore in and stay on the subject,
	but with regard to hydrazine sulfate, do you think, as you know Bob Guccione from Penthouse,
	I've had him on the air several times along I might add with Dr. Gold, make claims that
	would seem to suggest that hydrazine sulfate can do a lot more than just prevent wasting,
	though that is the main claim, but that it can actually cause remission or would you
	think that the effect of the hydrazine sulfate would simply be to strengthen the immune system
	causing spontaneous remission in some cases or what?
	Well, you know, it's very hard to know.
	The science isn't all there.
	There's a lot of controversy regarding this issue.
	There are claims made by Dr. Gold and Bob Guccione that the National Cancer Institute has been suppressing information, that the studies that were done, that were sponsored by the NCI were flawed.
	Precisely.
	Would you agree with that?
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	I'll tell you one thing, though, is that in 25 years of the war on cancer, We've made a pitiful little headway when the answers are pretty clear what does work and I think what is the unspoken success story with regard to the cancer problem is early detection.
	There are techniques out there where you can detect cancer when it's no larger than the head of a pen and when a cure is easily And readily available.
	I'm not talking about five-year survival.
	I'm talking about a cure.
	It's a big difference.
	When the NCI or the American Cancer Society or most doctors talk about treatment of cancer, they're talking about five-year survivals.
	That's not a cure.
	In other words, the progress that they're talking about is really more of a PR spin with regard to five-year survival rates than it is with we've found a cure.
	That's exactly right.
	If you look at the actual improvements in cancer therapy, the story is very dismal.
	I mean, there has been almost no improvement.
	The only real improvements that have been seen are with breast cancer, and that is because of the very early detection technology with mammography, with mass screening through mammography.
	And there's great controversy about that?
	Well, I think that early detection really is an answer.
	But, you know, from my read of it and certainly from the members of the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine, there are now 4,000 members of the Academy, all physicians and scientists from 40 different countries around the world.
	We're strong believers in very early detection because, again, cancer caught at Stage 1 is 90% curable.
	Stage 1 is when a cancer is about the size of a pea or smaller.
	And that sounds very, very small, but we do have the technology now to detect it.
	There are blood tests that can detect cancer almost anywhere in the body, and there is new imaging technology with MRIs and with the new types of breast cancer detection methods.
	other advanced technology that can spot these things when they're early.
	When they're that early, you can take a needle and put a needle into that tumor
	and irradiate it with a laser or just heat the needle or just inject some liquid nitrogen
	and freeze the tumor, and it's gone, and it's gone forever.
	And that's a cure, and that's really the promise of the future of cancer therapy is its early detection.
	Spending the hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars that we spend on trying to cure cancer up to this point has been by and large a waste and the only bright spot in the whole picture is this work that we talked about earlier with cellular control of the cancer itself or of all the cells of the body.
	Are you familiar with Dr. Lorraine Day?
	No, I'm not.
	Alright.
	She was a surgeon in San Francisco that got into a great deal of controversy about AIDS.
	Oh yes, I think I have heard about her.
	She was an orthopedic surgeon.
	That's right.
	And she was concerned about AIDS being spread by aerosol and other things.
	That's right.
	But she recently came down with a late stage cancer.
	And she had on her chest something the size of a grapefruit.
	I mean, it looked like something out of the movie Alien.
	It was horrible.
	Yes.
	She had it surgically attended to.
	It was in her lymph glands, and she was able to cure herself of cancer through diet.
	There is a lot to be said for diet, and it goes back to stimulating the body's immune system.
	We have within us the greatest cancer-fighting, disease-fighting mechanism on the planet.
	Certainly far better than anything that man has created.
	It was created by, you know, the creator of man.
	And our immune system is incredibly powerful and incredibly strong, and the work and the bias in medicine and in science against natural healing is just completely wrong-headed.
	I've been told by many scientists that we will be able to cure AIDS at the same time that we can change the color of your eyes.
	No, I believe that, you know, I think that we will be able to change the color of our eyes with genetic engineering, but that's, again, 20 years in the future.
	I think the cure for AIDS is far closer.
	All right.
	Before we leave that topic, far closer in what way and through what avenue, and as long as we're on the subject, this cocktail mixture, they're giving to AIDS patients now, that seems, Magic Johnson, for example, Yes.
	AIDS now is not detectable, HIV is not detectable in his blood any longer.
	Where are we here?
	Well, we're far closer than most people realize with regards to treatment for AIDS and that's because these protease inhibitor drugs that are part of this chemical cocktail, usually it's a three drug cocktail to inhibit the reproduction of AIDS.
	It's not a cure, Not a cure yet, but it's darn close.
	What it does is it suppresses the virus to the point where it becomes virtually undetectable.
	The problem with it becoming a cure is, and that's the next step, is the virus hides out within the white blood cells of the body.
	And it goes into a remission kind of state.
	It goes into a dormant state.
	And so what we have to do with the next step is find those white blood cells and find those reservoirs of the virus and eradicate those.
	And then we will have a cure for AIDS.
	What kind of timeline do you see?
	Five years.
	Five years?
	Yes.
	That's a lot of hope for a lot of people.
	Well, I think it's a very positive story.
	I think that the, you know, biotechnology is advancing so incredibly rapidly, especially in these new frontier areas.
	I mean, you know, virtually viral drug therapy was virtually unknown ten years ago.
	Well, here's a recent example.
	I, along with a gazillion other people in this country, came down with this godforsaken flu.
	I came down with the flu, and it was always my contention that when you get the flu, there's nothing you can do.
	You drink liquids, you do the basics, and you wait until it leaves you.
	This was the worst I've ever had in my life, and so I finally gave in, and I went to the doctor.
	And when I went to the doctor, he said, why the hell weren't you here last week?
	I said, for what?
	I mean, what can you really do?
	And he gave me antiviral medicine, and he said, didn't you know?
	That we've got antiviral medicines now?
	And Doctor, in two days, I was a million percent better.
	I couldn't believe it.
	I didn't think you could do anything with the flu.
	Oh yes.
	We now do have antiviral drugs.
	And even, I think even more excitingly, we have therapies, both drug and nutritional therapies, that bump up our own natural immunity.
	And that can stimulate our immune systems, and our immune systems can Make the difference between having a cold or a flu that lasts, you know, last two weeks or that last two days.
	All right.
	This brings me to my next topic.
	If you watch the news, CNN and the networks, on a daily basis, you will, with regard to nutrition and what's good and bad for you, you will go out of your mind.
	Milk, butter, coffee, wine, fat, meat, you name it, one day they're good for us, The next day, they cause breast cancer.
	Drink red wine.
	It's great for you.
	Don't drink red wine.
	You'll get breast cancer.
	And with nearly every food product that I could imagine, day to day, the information is contrary.
	What is a mother to do?
	Well, it's a difficult issue.
	Yeah.
	It's a very difficult issue because, you see, the media is hungry for a story.
	Any story.
	I shouldn't say any story.
	The worse the news, the better the media likes it.
	That's true.
	I admit that.
	And there is a lot of research going on in many areas, and some of the research is very solid, and some of the research is very tenuous.
	And so you can prove things one way or another.
	I mean, some things work very well in knife, but they don't work very well in people.
	The best thing you can do is you can ignore the first study on anything.
	Ignore the second study on anything.
	When it gets to be a third study from three separate laboratories, from three separate groups, on people, not on mice, not in a test tube, not on goldfish or planaria, then you can say, hmm, this is looking interesting.
	And you may want to incorporate that into your own lifestyle.
	All right, into that category, would you fit an aspirin a day?
	Oh, I think an aspirin a day is very, very strong science.
	There are at least two dozen major studies on aspirin in humans that are out there in the literature.
	I suspect there's more than that, but last time I looked it was two dozen major.
	Large studies, thousands of people.
	Right.
	And aspirin is really truly a wonder drug.
	It can reduce the risk of heart disease, it can reduce the risk of stroke, and it may very well reduce the incidence of colon cancer as well.
	Really?
	Yes.
	Now there's a caveat to that.
	Some people are sensitive to aspirin and certainly those people shouldn't be taking it willy-nilly.
	Aspirin can thin the blood and if you have a bleeding problem you know you should be careful about it.
	Hopefully you have a doctor who's as well read about these things as you are and can give you good advice on whether you're a good candidate for taking aspirin, but I myself take one aspirin every day.
	Every day?
	Every day.
	Doctor, let's say that in 30 years we get to the point where we can keep people alive more or less indefinitely or even increase lifespan by say 300 percent.
	Why would we want to do that?
	Well, that's kind of a very personal question, I suppose.
	It is.
	I'm just curious about your answer.
	It comes down to how much you enjoy life and if you feel that you've accomplished all that you need to on this planet.
	I think the greatest tragedy is for someone to die before their time.
	We're all here for a purpose.
	Some of us have a bigger purpose than others.
	And I'm not ready to go silently into that long night until I've accomplished everything that I need to accomplish.
	And I figure for myself I'll take about 150 years at a minimum.
	And when that time comes and I've done all that I need to do, then I'd like to give my good friend Dr. Jack Kevorkian a call on the phone and ask him to come over for a visit and a house call and maybe that's the When I'll be ready to move on.
	Do you know Dr. Kevorkian, by the way?
	Not well.
	I've spoken with him on two occasions.
	An interesting fellow, though.
	Yeah, I mean, since you brought his name up.
	What are your comments on his work?
	Well, his work is quite exemplary.
	I have to admit, he's a pioneer.
	That's my take on him as well.
	I frankly have thought the man to be rather heroic.
	I think as a physician, this guy shows amazing cojones.
	Really?
	I think as he has a social message, he has a social agenda, and I think that the arguments that he's putting forth deserve to be explored by society, and certainly should be explored by the medical community.
	And the medical community has been timid, at best, at looking at these issues.
	There are people whose lives are quite miserable.
	And there are people who perhaps deserve the, you know, deserve the choice over their own destiny.
	All right, Dr. Kevorkian is very public.
	I had a very good friend who lived close to me here who had terminal cancer and liver disease and, you know, he was a wreck in coming to the end of it all and was alone at home and They had visiting physicians who would come and give him shots of morphine toward the end.
	And it is my firm belief that the dosage of morphine in the end is what caused him to expire.
	How common a practice is that on the QT, on the quiet, between physicians and patients in America today?
	Well, 20 years ago, or perhaps even less, it was a very common practice.
	And I believe that was probably, I personally believe that was probably one of the major responsibilities of your personal physician to guarantee that you would not suffer needlessly, especially in the very last hours of life.
	Yes.
	However, because of the drug paranoia That has been foisted upon the American public by our government.
	Well, you've got that right.
	Physicians, rightfully so, are scared to death over losing their license for treating people who are in pain with adequate, and I say that again, with adequate amounts of analgesic medication.
	There is such an onerous Wait on physicians with triplicate prescription forms and special, special, special licenses and oversight by the state and by the federal government and by their own medical societies on virtually every pain medication or certainly every narcotic-based pain medication that they write for that many doctors, in fact most doctors, won't even write for narcotic-based pain medications any longer.
	And the ones who will write for it are so timid in their prescribing practices that many people suffer horrible pain needlessly and without any good reason whatsoever under the guise that somehow they will become addicted or they will have some, you know, they'll enjoy the experience of pain relief too much.
	So, basically, you agree with many, many other physicians that with regard to pain, we are vastly under-medicated and the reason is fear.
	Oh, absolutely.
	It is a ridiculous fear on the part of the government that is transmitted through the media to the public and that physicians are responding to, and good doctors have lost their licenses for nothing more than the appropriate use of pain medications.
	Actually, some of the doctors I have been to, even dentists, have told me exactly the same thing.
	That they have no problem at all prescribing narcotics for real pain, but that they are under immense pressure not to do so by the DEA, and the DEA watches them like a hawk.
	Oh yes.
	Every pain Every prescription, every narcotic pain prescription as written in the United States is on the computer and you are on the radar screen immediately.
	And the pharmacists in America have been co-opted into becoming mini DEA agents and are encouraged to report physicians who prescribe medications perhaps a little bit more than their colleagues and even patients who are receiving those pain medications.
	Who has had the misfortune to require narcotic pain medications, who's walked into a pharmacy, I'm sure has had that wonderful, warm feeling of being looked at as if they were a dope addict and a criminal.
	Certainly in the big cities.
	And, again, I'm not putting the blame on the pharmacist.
	They are really under pressure just as the physicians are.
	This is even now changing in Europe.
	Europe has begun to tighten up the same way as America.
	So, if anything, it's going in the wrong direction.
	Well, certainly in the wrong direction with regard to patient care and with regard to quality of health care for the population.
	All right.
	Doctor, when we come back, I want to ask you about cloning.
	I know that you know quite some bit about cloning.
	It is a point of great fascination for me.
	If you're ready, when we get back, we'll tackle that.
	You've got it, Art.
	All right.
	Dr. Ronald Klatz is my guest.
	He is recognized as our nation's leading authority on the science of anti-aging.
	We'll discuss that, we'll talk about cloning, and then we'll get the phone lines open, and we'll let you ask what you would like.
	From the high desert, which is dry tonight, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Well, I think it's time to get ready To realize just what I have been
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	I walked in every moment in my foolish love's despair On the telephone
	On the telephone, I'm finally lovin' your face.
	You're running out of time, who will see the changes in time?
	I'm watching in slow motion as you turn around and say Take my breath away
	If you have a fax for Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nile, send it to him at area code 702-727-8499.
	702-727-8499. Please limit your faxes to one or two pages.
	This is Coast to Coast.
	goes to him with our film and here again is our and my guest is doctor ronald clatts
	recognized as the world's leading authority on the science of anti aging
	he says make it another twenty or thirty years
	and we make it to the point where we can make you virtually immortal
	and that's what we've been talking about it And before we leave that, I do have a couple of other questions.
	And then we're going to talk about cloning.
	When you think about the future and watch the stock market, what do you think?
	Things getting better or worse?
	Well, today's market, $84.50 something or another.
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	Will it turn down at some point?
	Inevitably.
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	And only when you're certain you would make money, by using money, do you graduate yourself and take off.
	It works, folks.
	And tonight, all we're asking is that you make a free call.
	Without obligation, you get an audio tape and a complete report that explain, lay out the whole thing.
	It's 1-800-GOLD-KRC.
	That's 1-800-GOLD-KRC.
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	Believe me.
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	New Media Magazine says Snappy compares to a $20,000 digital camera.
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	It's in their chip and new software.
	Now, if you want to see Snappy, they're on the web at www.play.com.
	Or, go get a Snappy today at your favorite computer store.
	And the price, my friend, is just $99.
	All right, back now to Dr. Ronald Klatz near Chicago, an interesting place lately for science and medicine.
	Somebody rightly faxes me and says, look, before you leave the whole concept of stopping aging and immortality, you've got one area you've really got to cover, and that is we've got to make it through the next 20 or 30 years to get to that point.
	And so it's important to ask you what vitamins we should be taking, what type and quantity of minerals we should be taking.
	What kind of quality of hormones, the quantities, like the HEA?
	Aspirin?
	In other words, Doctor, what can we do to get through the next 20 or 30 years necessary to get to this wonderful genetic explosion of immortality?
	Okay, Art.
	You ready?
	Sure.
	You got a pencil?
	I do.
	Okay, well the first thing you have to do is you have to arm yourself with knowledge.
	And that comes from reading the literature, and that comes probably from being a member of the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine, which is the Society of Physicians and Scientists, also available to the general public.
	And we have a website which has over 1,000 pages of information.
	We are linked, by the way, to your website.
	You should expect a lot of hits.
	Folks, if you go to my website right now, go down to Dr. Klatz's name and click, you will go to his website instantly.
	Just go to www.artbell.com, scroll down to the good doctor's name, click on it, and away you go.
	Doctor?
	Now, if you can't get to our website, which is worldhealth.net, your listeners can call the Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine in Chicago, and the number, can I use that?
	Absolutely.
	The number in Chicago is 773-528-4333.
	Okay, 7-7-7.
	773, the area code, and then 528-4333.
	And what do they get?
	Well, they can become a member of the Academy and they'll get our newsletter.
	They'll also get reading lists.
	They'll also be put in touch with physicians in their areas or clinics in their areas that are practicing this new science of anti-aging medicine.
	Interestingly, in your own backyard is a center which is perhaps The most advanced anti-aging center in the United States right now, it's an organization called Cenagenics.
	They're in Las Vegas, Nevada.
	They are a leading center that's focused on hormone replacement therapy for anti-aging purposes.
	They're utilizing all the different hormones, but especially human growth hormone specifically for anti-aging purposes.
	That company, again, is Cenagenics.
	Where do I buy some of that stuff?
	I'm sorry?
	Where do I buy human growth hormone?
	I mean, do I drive into Las Vegas and do I get it across the counter?
	Well, you'll have to get a physician's prescription for it, but interestingly enough, human growth hormone has just been approved by the Food and Drug Administration for use in people who are suffering from aging-related disease.
	Well, you mean I could go to my doctor and I could say, Doctor, I'm getting old.
	Help.
	I need the following.
	Yes, you could.
	It would be perfectly reasonable and perfectly okay for your doctor to prescribe you human growth hormone specifically for aging-related disorders.
	Wow!
	That's a pretty big step on the part of the Food and Drug Administration.
	I'll say.
	Now, this is entirely new.
	It just occurred this year.
	You really shocked me.
	I was ready for you to say, look, this is a research organization.
	You can't go down there.
	But in Las Vegas, this place, Centigenics, is really on the cutting edge of these technologies.
	Now, there are hundreds of doctors across the United States who are practicing this anti-aging therapy.
	And they're using human growth hormone, testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, pregnenolone, melatonin.
	I mean, the whole panoply of anti-aging hormones.
	Now, I'm a guy.
	Do I need estrogen?
	Probably not, though it's possible.
	I mean, I don't want to grow appendages.
	No, but if you're a woman and you're post-menopausal, just this last year in the Journal of the American Medical Association was really a landmark study.
	It showed that women who are postmenopausal who take estrogen replacement therapy have 50% less incidence of degenerative diseases of aging across the board.
	Less osteoporosis, less heart disease, less wrinkling of the skin, less problems with dryness of the mucous membrane, and even less Alzheimer's disease.
	Wow!
	Not only do they have less degenerative diseases of aging by as much as 50% less, but they also have A longer lifespan.
	And so the largest study in the history of science is the 10 million women who are out there taking hormone replacement therapy right now, estrogen replacement therapy, and they're having less degenerative disease, and they're living longer, and that's according to the Journal of the American Medical Association.
	If that doesn't validate anti-aging therapies, I don't know what does.
	What about men?
	What about testosterone?
	Testosterone is probably just as important, but not as well studied as estrogen, because not nearly as many men are taking testosterone replacement therapy.
	Should they be?
	Probably they should.
	It turns out that when you give testosterone to men who are deficient, interesting things happen.
	They become more manly.
	They become less weak, less frail, less emotionally flaccid.
	They also become less flaccid altogether.
	And less in touch with their feminine side, huh?
	Yes, absolutely.
	Also, interestingly, some recent studies have shown that we've been very concerned about taking hormone replacement therapy, at least testosterone, because of prostate disease.
	It turns out that the men who are getting prostate disease actually have lower testosterone levels than normal.
	So the whole idea behind anti-aging hormone replacement therapy is not to make people into supermen, But to give people just enough to bring them back to a normal, youthful, healthy level.
	Right.
	Just as you give insulin to a diabetic.
	Alright, so number one, human growth hormone, which is now available.
	Then what?
	Okay, well, I guess we don't start with human growth hormone.
	We probably want to start with proper nutrition and proper exercise.
	You know, eat right, exercise right, you know, avoid... Wait a minute, wait a minute.
	You're running right past that.
	Eat right, what does that mean?
	If you eat a balanced diet, try not to overeat.
	Make sure that your body weight is within 10% of ideal.
	You don't have to get crazy and go to ideal body weight, which is very hard for most elderly
	people to achieve.
	But even 10% above ideal body weight is not an increased risk for premature death.
	As a matter of fact, there are some studies that say that even 20% above ideal body weight is not an increased risk for premature death as long as you exercise on a regular and routine basis.
	Exercise is incredibly important.
	Exercise is probably the number one anti-aging therapy that's available to each and every one of us.
	Exercise followed by diet.
	A lot of people call me and we have great grand arguments about people who don't eat meat.
	They're vegetarians.
	They feel better.
	They say they look better.
	Personally, I think they look emaciated.
	How do you come down on that?
	People who just eat vegetables.
	Well, you know, I always wanted to be a vegetarian, but I just like my steak a little too much on the rare side.
	I suppose there's a good argument against eating red meat on a regular basis, because much red meat does have a number of hormones in it.
	There is some increased risk for certain cancers if you eat a lot of red meat, and especially if it's charred too heavily.
	But I think red meat in moderation probably has no significant increase risk of premature death and probably there's some benefit to it because there are certain nutrients that are found in meats that are very hard to come by in a vegetarian diet.
	Now, minerals.
	You hear a lot of preaching all over the place about minerals and How we need to replace minerals in our body that we are not getting now through natural means like the water and all the rest of it.
	What should we be doing there?
	Well, I suspect that probably one of the most significant minerals that are deficient in the American diet is selenium.
	Selenium?
	Selenium is a very important mineral in that it is cancer protective.
	If you look at populations that have low selenium levels, they have much higher risk of cancers than people who have high selenium levels.
	So selenium's important.
	Interestingly, if you look at different parts of the world, you come up with very different figures regarding longevity.
	The Japanese, for example, seem to live and live and live and live.
	Yes, they have the highest longevity on the planet right now.
	How come?
	Well, they have excellent health care.
	They have a very stable social environment, but they also do some interesting things.
	Oh, by the way, they smoke quite a bit.
	I know.
	And they drink quite a bit, too.
	I know.
	What does that say about smoking?
	I don't know, but it comforts me.
	And alcohol.
	You're not a smoker, are you?
	No, but I'll tell you, so politically, you know, I feel bad for Joe Camel.
	You know, he's been getting pretty hard treatment by the government.
	I almost feel like buying a pack just in protest.
	Well, I'm going to tell you what to do.
	Just to help out those beleaguered smokers out there.
	I think that smoking is, you know, there is a lot of health risks involved with smoking, certainly.
	But, you know, maybe a little bit... Maybe we've gone a little overboard.
	Maybe just a bit, yes.
	I think that's the best way to put it.
	I think that the lesson that I've learned from anti-aging and looking at demographic studies is that everything in moderation.
	That's the truest words and Shakespeare spoke them.
	I'm sure someone before Shakespeare had to say it.
	But it's absolutely true in medicine and it's true in life and I think it'll also turn out to be true in anti-aging as well.
	Remember you were talking about five-year survivability and the numbers and how they play with the numbers?
	Yes sir.
	Every year I'm told that we get 390,000 or 400,000 smoking related deaths.
	490,000 or 400,000 smoking-related deaths.
	And I have always been very dubious of the way they arrive at these figures.
	For example, back East, if you spend a lot of time in your basement, you're going to be irradiated, because there's radiation coming from the ground.
	Yes, that's true.
	And that may well result in a lung cancer, for example.
	Now, when this person's death certificate is made out, I wouldn't be surprised, but they put down smoking related, if the person happened to be a smoker.
	And they had lung cancer.
	Whether it actually came from the smoke or the ground.
	That is quite probably true.
	It comes down to, again, you've got to be careful what you read and who you believe.
	And there is certainly a lobby by the smoking industry on behalf of smokers, but there's a much stronger lobby against cigarette smoking.
	And you can tell that simply by the tilt and the spin of the media that's out there.
	I'm not defending cigarette smoking.
	I don't encourage anyone to smoke.
	But I am certainly in favor of honesty and scientific truth, and maybe the risks have been overstated to some extent.
	All right.
	So, we're talking therapy, hormone therapy.
	We're talking about exercise.
	Diet.
	We're talking about minerals.
	What other elements would go into surviving, say, 20 or 30 years?
	Well, important minerals that we're finding, again, are deficient in the American diet are both magnesium and potassium.
	Magnesium is important for heart action.
	It's important for action of the enzyme systems of the body.
	Supplementing with magnesium and calcium and potassium can be very helpful for people with heart disease or people in general.
	I think the What we're finding with anti-aging therapeutics is that when we look at individuals, no two people are the same.
	We're all as different biochemically as our fingerprints.
	And so, the optimal anti-aging program for you, Art, would be entirely different than the optimal anti-aging program for me or for your neighbor or for the guy down the street.
	And so, what we're doing with anti-aging medicine is we're doing a thing called the biomarker-biomatrix analysis.
	And what it is, is it's a battery of several hundred different biochemical tests that look at each person individually and try and design a program that's unique and addresses each of their deficiencies, both hormonal, nutritional, biochemical, and their risk factors.
	So the people with the money to get that kind of testing right now are the ones who are going to make it?
	Well, they're the ones who are getting the benefit of anti-aging medicine, though it's not very expensive to get started on the anti-aging medicine program.
	I'm being very blunt here, of course, but I mean it does, for many, boil down to money.
	You, more than anybody else, would know about the cost of medicine nowadays, and I know that there's quite a bit in here about that.
	Clearly.
	But anti-aging medicine is becoming a national issue.
	It's an issue of national defense and national security, anti-aging medicine, because If we don't embrace the anti-aging lifestyle, if we don't embrace the anti-aging technology, our nation is doomed to become a nation of nursing homes when in the year 2025 there will be two 65-year-olds for every young teenager in America.
	The baby boomers are such a large cohort of the population.
	They will suck up every dime of social services that are out there and literally bankrupt America unless we change the paradigm of aging.
	And as a matter of fact, I was in Washington, D.C.
	giving this testimony before members of Congress and their staff, you know, through the National Defense Council Foundation in Washington.
	And we were talking about this as a national issue.
	Of national defense?
	Well, that's one side of it.
	But there's national defense on the other side of the argument as well.
	And that is exhibited by somebody who just sent me a fax.
	Could you ask Dr. Klatt about immortality and its possible conflict with the already exponential population growth?
	Oh, I love that.
	Perhaps Mother Nature's building clock is there for a reason and we should not tamper.
	Well, I love that question.
	Thank you, Art.
	That's the best question there is, and that's the best argument against anti-aging therapies.
	Yes, indeed.
	However, it's a very short-sighted argument.
	Well, I mean, what's it going to do to Social Security?
	If you keep me alive to 120 or 30 or 40, goodbye, Social Security.
	Well, goodbye, Social Security, as it is right now.
	That's true.
	Okay, Social Security is bankrupt.
	That's no joke.
	The people in Washington tell us that today.
	Yes, true.
	As a matter of fact, Greenspan is saying that the cure for Social Security is to, in fact, push back the years by which you can obtain Social Security.
	Instead of obtaining it at 65, you'll have to wait until 67 or even 70 if you're born today.
	And in order for that to occur, What has to happen?
	We have to change the paradigm of aging, so that people are no longer old at 70, where they need Social Security.
	So that they're still young, healthy, productive, and vibrant.
	So that at 70, they feel as good as any 45-year-old does today, and they don't want to retire, because why would they?
	Alright, then, the best argument of all, and that is our environment.
	Look at our air, look at the air above our cities, look at the pollution of our rivers and streams, The ozone depletion that's letting all this radiation in from the sun that's giving us skin cancers and killing frogs and God knows what all.
	You're talking about having a lot more people on the Earth for a lot longer time, Doctor.
	No, I'm not, Art.
	I am talking about actually curing the population explosion.
	Right now there are six billion people on this planet.
	True?
	About right, yes.
	And within the next 50 years of current population growth, we're looking at over 10 billion people on the planet.
	That's right.
	Okay, and that's actually probably a conservative estimate.
	I would say so, yes.
	Do you realize that in the United States, the latest reports from the U.S.
	Census Bureau is that birth, live birth, of American citizens is at the lowest point in history.
	It's now 1.3 per couple.
	That is well below replacement level.
	Replacement level being about 2.1, 2.2 per couple.
	So all we have to do is stop replacing ourselves.
	Ah, but then, but then Doctor, there's...
	There's Rome and the Catholic Church.
	I have a few comments about that.
	I bet you do.
	All right, good.
	Hold on.
	We'll be right back to you.
	Dr. Ronald Klatz is my guest, and we will get to phoning and we will get to calls, I promise.
	this is Ghost to Ghost AM.
	What is it that people talk about in the middle of the night?
	Do you ever wonder?
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	Well, one night, if nothing else, set an alarm.
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	She drives a truck.
	David and Alan try to give quality advice in spite of sometimes guest host Bart who
	gets carried away when women truck drivers call.
	You know I like this woman already.
	She drives a truck.
	Are you single by any chance?
	Well, give me your phone number to this guy and I'll be coming to see you.
	But can you drive a 10 wheeler?
	Yeah.
	That's a minimum.
	I got a requirement, see?
	Well, I mean, you know, the truck runs good when that gauge starts jumping around.
	That's my heartbeat, Susan.
	Let me ask this woman one thing.
	Susan, are you interested in being part of my calendar?
	I don't think so.
	I need a picture of you.
	Are you going to make a man cry?
	Yeah, why not?
	Autotalk Saturday morning with David, Alan, and sometimes Mark.
	Susan, let me just say one thing.
	I love you.
	The End.
	I love you.
	The End.
	To talk with Art Bell in the Kingdom of Narnia, the land of the dead.
	talk with our girls in the kingdom of my from east of the Rockies dial
	1-800-825-5033.
	West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, 1-800-618-8255.
	1-800-825-5033. West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico.
	1-800-618-8255. 1-800-618-8255. Now again, here's Art Bell.
	Dr. Ronald Claps, the world authority on anti-aging is my guest.
	It is a very unusual opportunity to learn about a lot of things.
	So I suggest you keep it right where you've got it.
	Listen to this, FactsArt.
	I like your show, but my boyfriend really likes your show.
	He likes it so much, he listens to you every night, even if it's a show he's already heard.
	Every night, ten to three, he listens to you.
	Our sex life has become difficult ever since my man became an art head.
	When we are making love, he insists on listening to your show and even makes comments about what you're talking about.
	I want his total devotion.
	Will you please tell him to turn the radio off when we're in bed?
	He can turn you back on after the fireworks are over.
	If you tell him, he will listen.
	And she thanks me.
	Good God, man, get a life!
	You know, everything as the doctor said, in moderation, please.
	Alright, we'll get back to Dr. Klatz in a moment.
	Turn it off.
	Once again, from Chicago, here is Dr. Ronald Klatz.
	Doctor, we were talking about living much, much longer, debating the merits and demerits of it, and we were getting to the Catholic Church.
	I mean, here we are, living longer.
	Dr. Klatz imagines That we will not reproduce at the rate that we have been, and yet there is the church that says you shall not use preventative devices to stop birth reproduction.
	We need more Catholics.
	Well, yes.
	I mean there are social issues to be considered, but the point of the matter is are you willing To practice birth control and zero population growth, and we certainly have the technology to do it right now.
	The Chinese have certainly proven that that's an immediate option.
	They've achieved almost zero population growth in their country, starting from essentially a third world country.
	Yeah, but they've got laws and guns.
	Well, I'm not saying that they did it effortlessly, but they've certainly accomplished that.
	In the first world, we're not only at zero population growth, we're at minus population growth.
	If it wasn't for immigration in the United States, we'd be losing population right now, as is most of the first world.
	Because what we're finding is that as people live longer, have less social insecurity, expect to live into a ripe old age in good health, they don't need a huge family to support them.
	They become selfish.
	Well, maybe, or maybe the people who are selfish are actually third world, who have huge families.
	That's true.
	And when you look at why they have huge families, it's because their children die young, and they need to have a lot of children to care for themselves in their old age, because there are no social support systems.
	Alright, well then, digest this question.
	Assuming that we reach, in 20 or 30 years, a virtual immortality, we will still have Third world nations, the Bangladeshes, parts of India, and I really could go on and on and on.
	I've seen a lot of the third world.
	If this technology became available, Doctor, would you now dispense it to Bangladesh?
	Well, that's a good question.
	I'm not sure I, but I believe that when people have social security, And have the security of knowing that they are healthy.
	They don't have the desire to reproduce ad nauseum.
	They have a desire to reproduce in a way that allows them and their families and their children to have an optimum lifestyle and an optimum opportunity to enjoy all the pleasures of life.
	And that has been proven to be smaller families, not larger families, because that allows more resources for all the members of the family.
	There was a terrible loss in Chicago today of Harry Carey.
	Oh, yes.
	He was a veteran broadcaster in my business.
	Devoted, loved the work that he did.
	And he had a very, very high quality of life.
	Right up until the very end, after his big loss.
	Could we, with 300% more Well, certainly, anti-aging medicine is not about gerontology.
	We're actually about putting an end to aging as we know it.
	And no one in anti-aging medicine is interested in keeping people alive on ventilators or keeping people alive in a vegetative state.
	When that happens, it's time to call in our friend Dr. Kevorkian.
	Again, I'm 52.
	If I were to go to the doctor and I were to go through every regime you might suggest, in 1998, what could you do for me?
	Could you sort of slow my aging?
	Could you begin to roll me back?
	What could you do for me?
	Probably roll you back a few years.
	Really?
	Yes.
	As a matter of fact, it's not unusual at all from a biochemical point of view.
	Not from a number of candles on your birthday cake, obviously, because no one can stop time.
	But we can, from a biochemical point of view, make you optimize your metabolism, optimize your health, and actually make you look and feel younger than you were when you started.
	As a matter of fact, it's quite common in anti-aging clinical practice to de-age someone or biologically optimize someone.
	By five, ten years, in some cases, fifteen years.
	I would imagine that people in Hollywood, these types, are taking advantage of this technology now.
	Oh, absolutely.
	I mean, you look at Dick Clark, for example.
	Well, he ain't doing it with vitamins alone, let me put it that way.
	I always suspected that, and I always rather suspected that the upper crust, the financially stable and rich, have been doing this for some time?
	Quite some time.
	And, you know, anti-aging medicine is a very serious technology.
	And the good news is it's available to anyone who's willing to educate themselves, anyone who's willing to make an effort.
	It's very, very inexpensive life insurance.
	You can get started on an anti-aging medical program for as little as $1,000 a year.
	Wow.
	And even the people... I mean, I myself am spending about, oh, $4,000, $5,000 a year on my own.
	Anti-aging regimen. How are you doing?
	Biologically, you know chronologically, I'm 42 years old and when I test myself biologically I test out at 34 years
	of age How do you and that's not unusual by the way, I have no
	great specimen I am no Olympic athlete how do you test that?
	Well, there's this biomarker biometrics Analysis, it's a fancy name for this battery of about 114
	biochemical test that we're using right now that goes through this artificial intelligence computer system.
	And what we do is we measure, you know, just like when you bring your car in for a checkup, they plug it into the computer.
	Yes.
	And they measure the horsepower, and they measure the spark length, and they measure the electrical system, and the voltage, and the amperage.
	So they hook you up to something like that.
	Well, yes, and we do that on a biochemical basis, and we measure these 100 plus tests, and they can tell us how well each organ system of the body is aging.
	And when you can do that, every six months, you can see a trend, and you can see, are you aging?
	prematurely, are you aging optimally, perhaps your heart is aging at a more rapid rate than
	your liver or your lungs or your kidneys, in which case we focus all of our therapies
	on trying to protect your heart.
	And that can be done now for $1,000 a year?
	Well no, you can get started for $1,000 a year.
	To do the whole program starts with all the diagnostics and everything else, so about
	$4,000 a year.
	And if you want to add in the hormone replacement therapy, growth hormone is probably the most expensive of the group.
	You're up to about $10,000, $12,000 a year.
	But again, you know, what's that worth if that's going to buy you an extra, you know, six months or a year of lifespan, or perhaps a whole lot more.
	If we're right about being 30 years from immortality, then it's a very, very Intelligent investment.
	Alright, and on behalf of all the people out there who don't live by all the proper rules, nutrition, exercise, and all the rest of it, somebody who might smoke, eat an occasional quarter pounder, that sort of thing, could they begin this regimen that you have discussed?
	Well, they is me.
	Yeah, they is me too.
	That's why I'm asking on behalf of all of us.
	The doctors involved in anti-aging medicine, you know, we're normal people.
	And we enjoy the normal pleasures of life.
	Well, you wouldn't know that by talking to most doctors.
	Well, they're, you know... Lecture on smoking.
	Every time you go in, hangnail, you lecture on smoking.
	Well, we try not to be... we try to be... not to be holier than thou with the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine.
	We understand what it's like to be human, and we're trying to administer to the human nature and to the human foibles.
	Alright, so what you have been telling me, then, Would apply to you and me?
	Absolutely.
	People just like us.
	Those are the only people who we're caring for in this academy, is normal everyday human beings.
	Now, interestingly, the Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine got its start from Olympic physicians.
	It came out of Olympic training technologies.
	Well, there is this, Doctor.
	I talked to you earlier about the state of the ecology, and one thing's for sure.
	When you have a lifespan of 75 or 6 years, you tend to think in that span.
	In other words, you don't really worry about what's going to occur 80 or 100 or 150 years from now.
	And if you live longer, you're much more likely to be very concerned about 150 years or 200 years from now.
	Oh, very, very true, Art.
	That is so true and that's one of the great benefits of anti-aging medicine because it forces people to think in long-term, in a long-term view.
	Yes, yes.
	And when you think of a lifespan of a hundred years plus, which is available, by the way, to all the baby boomers.
	As a matter of fact, the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine, of which I'm the president, has announced this last December that 50% of the baby boomers or more We'll see their 100th birthday in excellent physical and mental condition.
	When you start thinking of a lifespan in excess of 100 years, maybe far in excess of 100 years, you have to be concerned about the economy.
	You have to be concerned about ecology.
	You have to be concerned about the state of the planet.
	You have to be concerned about your own spirituality, your relationship to your fellow man and to the universe.
	It forces that, but even more importantly it gives you the time.
	Most of us will achieve mastery in this lifetime if we only have enough of it.
	Some of us become wise at age 30.
	You know, they're the great masters.
	Some of us don't become wise until we're 60.
	Some until 80.
	Maybe some people need to 120.
	But everybody can get there.
	And the promise of the Ageless Society and anti-aging medicine is that we all can get there if we're only willing to take a little bit of effort.
	To make it, to educate ourselves and to take care of ourselves so that we can benefit from these technologies that are already in the pipeline.
	All right, we could spend the whole night on this, but I must ask you about cloning.
	We have Dolly.
	Yes.
	An exact duplicate.
	And we have there, in Chicago near you, Dr. Richard Seed, who's answering machine I've been filling for two weeks now, trying to get on there.
	And he has been talking about cloning a human being very shortly.
	Now, if we can clone Dolly, can we clone a human, Doctor?
	Almost certainly.
	As a matter of fact, I understand in England, the same technologies that went into making Dolly have already been used in in vitro fertilization techniques.
	And even more alarmingly, or perhaps more hopefully, depending on which end of the argument you're on, Uh, the major barriers to human cloning, which was the inavailability of female eggs, apparently it took 200 and some eggs
	200-something attempts with Dolly, and they need 200-something eggs in order to clone Dolly.
	The problem with women is women obviously ovulate one egg at a time, and even under the pressure of ovulatory drugs, you can only harvest maybe five or ten eggs at most at a time.
	Which accounted for the seven-year twin episode the other day.
	Exactly.
	Well, now we're finding in the latest research is that we may be able to use cow eggs in place of human eggs as incubators for these cloning experiments.
	Now, wait a minute.
	You take a cow egg... You take a cow egg and you ablate its own internal DNA and you replace it with the DNA of whatever you want to grow.
	Whether that be a human being?
	Or a frog?
	A frog, another cow, or a chicken, or whatever you're in the mood to clone.
	And it turns out that the reproductive mechanisms, and the hormones, and the chemicals that are necessary for growth of that being are right there in the cow's egg.
	And cow eggs are available plentifully because we eat cows, and we slaughter them en masse, and there are Literally hundreds of thousands of cow eggs available where these experiments can go on unfettered.
	That cow egg would then be implanted in... No, no.
	The cow egg would be implanted in a cow.
	In a cow?
	And the cow would essentially give birth to whatever it is you want it to grow up with.
	Wait a minute.
	The cow would give birth to a human being?
	Well, right now they're looking at being able to reproduce rhinoceroses and other species that are endangered.
	But the same technology could possibly work with human beings.
	It's a little frightening.
	Is that actually... You're saying that's possible now?
	That's been reported in the scientific literature.
	They have not taken animals to full term, but they've taken them to 15 weeks.
	And then stopped on ethical grounds?
	Well, no, no.
	They stopped because there were some technical difficulties in continuing the birth.
	But they've gotten it to the point where the embryos do take In order to clone me, you need a sample of my DNA.
	What does that mean?
	and then there were some technical difficulties and weren't able to take it beyond 15 weeks.
	But that's, this is all new stuff and we're only, this is only,
	we've just begun to open Pandora's box.
	So we need to look at this technology and decide is this a road that we want to walk through.
	In order to clone me you need a sample of my DNA.
	What does that mean?
	Does that mean you can scrape under my fingernails, take a hank of hair off my head,
	a little scoop mark in my leg?
	What do you need?
	Well, in Dolly, what they took was they took a cell from a mammary gland.
	Uh-huh.
	Okay, so that's why they call her Dolly, as in Dolly Parton.
	I didn't know that.
	That's where the name Dolly came from.
	I'm kidding.
	But with you and me, it would probably be a stem cell, or it might be a sperm cell.
	It could potentially be almost any cell within our body.
	A dead tissue such as hair or nails would be much more difficult.
	And anyway, with the right DNA, you could take that DNA and replace what is in a cow egg and grow a human being.
	Grow an exact duplicate, an exact copy, at least a genetically exact copy.
	It wouldn't have your thoughts or your feelings or your memories, but it would be a genetically identical version to you.
	I read a story the other day about some scientists some time ago who managed to take the head off one monkey and put it on another monkey.
	And the monkey, doctor, lived.
	And the monkey was responsive to sounds and things around it just like it was a normal monkey.
	Now I don't know... That was Dr. Smith from the Cleveland Clinic.
	He was one of the speakers at our last conference on anti-aging medicine in December.
	So he really did do that?
	He really did do that.
	The research was really quite exciting because what it proves is that head transplant is in fact possible.
	And his research would have continued, except that there were some people who thought it was wrong on ethical grounds, and his funding got cut.
	This was in the 1970s.
	But he's planning on restarting that research overseas in the next year or so.
	If you take that technology and where it might go, and then you look at some certain aspects of cloning technology... You're talking about practical immortality.
	That is correct, Art.
	I've heard that it may even someday be possible to grow a human being virtually minus a head.
	Bye.
	That also is being worked on.
	There are cloning experiments going on right now where they are seeking, and I believe that they've succeeded, in growing a body, a headless body.
	So that what you would have is you would have a sack of organs and these organs would be available for transplantation.
	And what it would mean is no one would ever have to die again of heart failure or liver failure or kidney failure because there would be a plentiful supply, an unlimited supply of exact genetically perfect organs for whoever might need them.
	My God!
	Doctor, hold on.
	We're at the top of the hour this time.
	We'll be right back.
	I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Listeners west of the Rockies can call Art toll-free by dialing 1-800-618-8255.
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	702-727-1222.
	Now, here again is Art.
	Imagine trying to be a dancing queen until you're, say, 200 or so.
	Now, here again is art.
	Imagine trying to be a dancing queen until you're say 200 or so.
	How about that?
	That is what we're talking about.
	We're talking about immortality and now cloning.
	It's quite a world we live in, isn't it?
	Alright, you should know who you're listening to.
	Dr. Ronald Klatz is recognized as the leading authority, period, on the science of anti-aging.
	He is founder and president of the non-profit public foundation, American Longevity Research Institute.
	And we are now discussing cloning, which of course is... Well, here's a good question for you, Doctor.
	I'm a little bit cynical about government in general.
	And it would be my view that this technology, the cloning of human beings, for example, probably, either in a private or black ops government lab someplace or another, already has been done.
	I would not doubt it.
	The technology to do cloning has been with us for some time.
	As a matter of fact, Dolly is no great technological feat.
	And perhaps that's why the government doesn't want the rest of us to get our hands on it.
	I'm with you.
	There's some talk in Washington right now about banning human cloning.
	Yeah, that's where I was going.
	As a matter of fact, the president is signing something or doing something, executive ordering on something or another, and he's trying to stop it cold.
	What should really be done here?
	Well, you know, it's very dangerous to say that, you know, we need to go to the black, you know, to the dark ages in any aspect of medicine.
	Cloning technology, you know, every powerful technology has, you know, is two-edged.
	There's the, you know, possibility of doing, you know, A tremendous evil, and there's a possibility of doing incredible good.
	I'm on the side of good and light, so you know where I stand.
	I'm all for the technology, as long as the technology is being applied for the treatment and amelioration of human disease.
	Well, how about as it applies, for example, to something the Pentagon might be interested in?
	You know, I can't control that, and I would love to see, you know, all these technologies, everything from nuclear energy to computer technology to human cloning be used for good and light.
	So then you would say, no laws?
	I think that, well, look, if you create laws, the laws won't apply to the people in government, will they?
	No, no, they never do.
	Okay, and the laws won't apply to, you know, let's assume that the people in government are all good guys and all wear white hats.
	I can't do that, but you go ahead.
	Okay, I mean, it certainly won't apply to the guys in other countries who don't wear white hats, will it?
	Oh, no, of course not.
	So a law that bans cloning, does that protect us from the evildoers, or does that simply stop the people who would do good from developing this technology?
	Is the cloning technology going?
	I mean, a few minutes ago, we talked about monkeys with heads moved from one monkey to another who lived.
	We talked about the possibility of a human being being born from a cow.
	Where are we going here?
	Well, we're going quite literally any place we want to.
	That is the promise of the biotechnological revolution.
	I mean, look at the incredible changes the world has seen in the electronics revolution in just the last 30 years because of new computer technology.
	Oh, yes.
	Okay?
	I mean, you know, you're running a national radio show, a national radio network from essentially your compound in Pahrump?
	Not compound, Doctor.
	Janet Reno attacks compounds.
	I'm sorry.
	I have a home here.
	Oh, okay.
	You know, this was unthinkable 30 years ago.
	This was unthinkable probably even 15 years ago, but you can command incredible power thanks to modern technology, electronic technologies.
	Well, this same logarithmic increase in power is happening now in biomedical technology, and it will lead to incredibly wonderful developments and maybe some scary developments.
	But you know what, Doctor?
	While what you said about me is absolutely true, I feel a horrible weight of responsibility and worry and concern about the reach and the amount of power I have because of the number of people that I'm able to address.
	I'm not comfortable with that.
	Thank goodness you feel that way and that you take responsibility for that power.
	The same is true in medicine or with anything else that's powerful.
	Hopefully the people who get their hands on it and who are utilizing it will be as diligent as you are in the exercise of that power.
	But they're not... I know, but how do you stop them?
	Do you stop them from limiting the power, from keeping the power from everyone?
	I think the safest thing is what the forefathers of America understood about political power.
	The most The most benefit for the greatest good of the people was to take the power of the republic and put it into as many hands as they could through the vote and through a tri-apartheid government.
	And I think the same is true with electronic power.
	You know, having people access to the internet, having people being able to reach out and communicate freely with the touch of a button.
	And perhaps by taking this biomedical technology and putting it in as many hands as possible so that no one person or one group has a monopoly of power, whether it be power of cloning or power of immortality or power of life extension or just power over Over any aspect of our lives.
	A random dumb question.
	If you could switch heads, if you can grow a clone without a head, and you can virtually take your head and put it on that clone, that can be done someday.
	Yes.
	You are then a new human being, except that your brain, of course... So, what about the brain?
	What is the life, assuming other bodily functions, Remain young and youthful and are brand new.
	What about the brain?
	Well, the brain is a very interesting organ and we're just beginning to fathom the depth of the brain as an organ itself.
	Until about 15-20 years ago, we had not even a clue as to how the brain actually worked.
	And we're just now beginning to develop some Reasonable understanding of what is going on with the brain.
	It's an incredibly complex organ.
	With regard to longevity?
	The brain probably has, under optimal conditions, has a lifespan well in excess of 120, well we know it has a life expectancy well in excess of 120 years.
	Sure we do.
	Probably something over 200 years.
	But we are working on technologies now where we can actually do brain transplants.
	Well, we can actually transplant little pieces of brain tissue into our own.
	Yes, don't you recall the work done in people with Parkinson's disease?
	I do, and that was using, I believe, fetal material, wasn't it?
	Fetal tissue, or sometimes pieces of the suprarenal gland from the kidney.
	And implanting that into the brain of people who have Parkinson's disease, who have that area of the brain that's responsible for making dopamine, which is a neurotransmitter, In Parkinson's disease, that portion of the brain dies off, and they don't have enough dopamine, and they undergo these uncontrollable jerky movements.
	What kills the brain, Doctor?
	Well, the brain dies because of many different things.
	Toxins, too much alcohol, as a natural course of aging, and also decreased blood flow.
	We're finding that perhaps a significant portion of Alzheimer's disease... Blood flow?
	I'm good.
	Diminish blood flow.
	You know, we develop as we grow older, our arteries start to clog up and our capillaries, which are microscopic arteries, clog up first.
	And when they start to clog and no longer produce, deliver the proper nutrients to the organs, whether it be the kidneys or the brain, those portions of that tissue that are starved for blood flow start to die off very slowly.
	And that may be the initiating event.
	that leads to a significant portion of Alzheimer's disease.
	This is an area that's being explored thoroughly right now, and there is some promise to it.
	You may remember the story about ginkgo biloba that was in the news just a couple weeks ago.
	I do.
	Ginkgo biloba is a natural, is an herb.
	It's a naturally occurring herb that's grown on a ginkgo tree.
	Does it really work?
	It really works.
	It actually improves cerebral blood flow, and for people who are elderly, who have a lack of blood flow to the brain, there is an improvement in cognition, and there is an improvement in mood, and there is an improvement in energy levels.
	All right.
	Doctor, what about the God question?
	I would take it, well, I shouldn't take anything for granted.
	Are you a Christian?
	Well, I'm Jewish.
	Okay.
	Do you believe we have a soul?
	Do I, personally?
	Yeah, tough questions.
	That is a real tough question.
	I mean, we're talking about a man who is prepared to take us into immortality.
	A man who believes that cloning is a proper road to follow, if we do it the right way.
	And a man who believes that when life has been satisfied, when a person is satisfied with their life, that ending it Dr. Kevorkian style is okay.
	So I had to ask you this question.
	Well, a soul as in a separate energy, ethereal identity.
	Something that survives physical death.
	I don't know.
	I really don't know.
	I believe in God.
	I believe that there is a certain, that there's a place for every human being and we have a role to fulfill.
	And I like to believe that there may, in fact, be something beyond this physical existence, though I don't have any clue what that might be and I haven't seen much evidence to convince me that there is much else.
	There have been many who have talked of near-death experiences in which they go down a tunnel toward a great white light, meet relatives and all the rest of it.
	Yes.
	When you get together with other doctors and you talk about these kinds of reports, and there are thousands and thousands of them, how do you rationalize this phenomenon?
	Well, the scientists that I deal with, and we do discuss these issues, Um, you know, it's very exciting, uh, you know, these are very exciting reports, uh, except that something that throws a clinker into the whole issue of the near-death experience is the reports of fighter pilots who are trained in centrifuge, uh, in centrifuge training.
	Right.
	With these giant centrifuges.
	Oh, yes.
	And they're put into it to simulate G-forces.
	Yes, I've been in one.
	And when you, Take someone to the brink of unconsciousness.
	In a centrifuge?
	Yes.
	They're not near death.
	They're just undergoing unconsciousness.
	They report almost identical experiences.
	And what that tends to argue for is that in the process of dying, the brain perhaps very kindly undergoes these hallucinations That, you know, relieve you from the fear of death and from the pain of death and what goes along with it.
	I heard one neurosurgeon, I think, on 60 Minutes say, look, the brain begins dying from the outside, moving inward.
	And so it is quite natural that you would see what appears to you to be a core as the death process ensues.
	Does that sound logical?
	There is some, you know, there is some basis for that.
	As the brain starts to die, it releases, there are chemical reactions, there are electrochemical reactions that occur where the brain, you see the brain just doesn't shut down like you shut off a light switch.
	The brain starts to die as a firecracker would explode.
	And in that process of these little explosions, these little biochemical, you know, firecrackers going off within the brain, it would be very Reasonable to assume that there might be hallucinations or there might be seizures or there might be all sorts of altered states that occur in that process.
	We don't know a whole lot about death because people don't come back other than with NDEs to tell us about it.
	Now, there have been a lot of strange things that have gone on.
	There was a lady who had an embolism in her brain.
	60 Minutes again did a big piece on this.
	They reduced her body temperature.
	Yes.
	Suspended animation surgery.
	Absolutely.
	Welcome back Mrs. Cotter.
	You got it.
	That's it.
	I'm very familiar with that because what I do for a living, anti-aging medicine is a pursuit and an avocation.
	My vocation is I'm involved in a biotechnology company that has taken that suspended animation surgery technique and collapsed it down into a briefcase sized emergency medicine device.
	They can be brought into the field within war or in ambulances and can plug into a person's carotid arteries and put the brain on hold in a state of hypothermia.
	Put the brain on hold?
	And essentially allow the emergency medical personnel instead of five minutes to resuscitate an individual because that's how long they have before their brain dies inextricably.
	Once they're plugged in, they could be kept in a state of suspended animation for as long as an hour.
	Indeed.
	She was gone for, I think, 40 minutes or something like that, and the big question at the end of the program was, where was she?
	That is a very important question.
	If, in fact, there is another realm, there is another existence beyond this, then it makes our quest for immortality a rather moot point.
	Doesn't it?
	As I said before, anti-aging medicine is really not going to achieve total immortality.
	When we talk about immortality, we're talking about lifespans of 150, 200, 300 years.
	Add cloning, though.
	Well, with cloning, you may be able to go on indefinitely.
	That's true.
	And I have another wrinkle for immortality, and that is psychic immortality in silicone.
	I beg your pardon?
	There is technology afoot that's being pursued right now in England by British Telecom, a computer chip that will essentially record every visual experience and auditory experience you have throughout life.
	Virtually downloading you.
	Downloading your personality onto a computer chip.
	Well, you've got to remember, what can be downloaded can be uploaded.
	That's true.
	If clones are possible, and they are, then if you were able to, in essence, download the contents of your brain, what would stop a scientist or a person of medicine like yourself from then, in effect, uploading this to a clone's brain, Doctor?
	Well, we don't have the technology yet to interface between the computer And the human brain.
	We're getting close.
	Yes, we are.
	And when that does occur, then you are talking about actual, real life, forever, immortality.
	One kind of gory little question before the bottom of the hour, very quickly.
	When we die, Doctor, as I said, we have no idea what happens.
	When a person is clinically dead, no pulse, no respiration, No breathing, no anything.
	Is it probable that they're still mentally, in some sense, alive?
	Highly improbable.
	All right.
	On that note, hold it right there.
	We're going to have to go to the phones when we get back.
	It is the bottom of the hour.
	What a fascinating interview.
	dr ronald class who is
	the leading authority on the science of anti aging is my guest and he will be
	right back this schools to close to pay
	and i think the
	I've disguised the blues, disguised the fights, the priceless escapes, the dark secrets of
	i'm the
	life, and I think to myself...
	myself the
	What a wonderful...
	Oh, and it's alright, it's coming along, they got me feeling right, that's the way it's starting to go.
	Love is good, love you can count, they got me feeling right, that's the way it's starting to go.
	From the Kingdom of Nye, this is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell.
	From east of the Rockies, call Art at 1-800-825-5033.
	West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, at 1-800-618-8255.
	First-time callers may reach Art at area code 702-727-1222.
	Colorado and New Mexico at 1-800-618-8255.
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	And you may fax out at area code 702-727-8499.
	Please limit your faxes to one or two pages.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Now again, here's Art.
	Once again, here I am.
	What an interview.
	Dr. Ronald Klatz, the world's leading authority on the science of anti-aging, is my guest.
	And we're exploring the limits, the outer limits.
	Not so far out, though, really.
	And yes, we're going to open up the lines now.
	I have not run out of questions by a long shot, but it's your turn.
	So, if you have questions, come now.
	From the Associated Press.
	A Senate bill to ban human cloning was put on indefinite hold Wednesday, when lawmakers from both parties expressed concerns that it could slow scientific research, despite overwhelming opposition to the idea of human cloning.
	Supporters of the bill, promoted by the Republican leadership, Could muster only 42 votes for a motion to bring the legislation to the Senate floor, well short of the 60 needed.
	Listen to this.
	Among those Republicans, two spoke of diseases that had affected their own families and the importance of keeping all avenues open for new treatments.
	Senator Strom Thurmond, a Republican from South Carolina, said his daughter had diabetes and, quote, I'm concerned this bill may be written so broadly It will restrict future promising research which could lead to improved treatment."
	Is that a healthy attitude, Doctor?
	I think so.
	I think it's an enlightened attitude.
	Cloning is very powerful technology and it has the incredible potential for doing incredible good.
	I mean, cloning could essentially eliminate the organ shortage, period.
	Cloning could lead to an unlimited supply of blood.
	Unlimited supply of stem cells, unlimited supply of immune stimulants, and as well as new drug therapies.
	I mean, the potential of cloning hasn't even been scratched yet.
	All right.
	To the phones we go.
	Are you ready?
	Yes, sir.
	First time caller line, you are on the air with Dr. Ronald Klatz.
	Hello.
	Hi, doctor.
	Where are you, sir?
	From Denver.
	All right.
	You mentioned earlier that baby boomers will have unlimited demand for whatever government social services can supply.
	It sounds like you're talking about what economists talk about as the concept of scarcity.
	Are you familiar with the concept and is it fair to say that you're more of a free market advocate than an advocate of kind of going towards Star Trek socialism?
	I think socialism has proven itself to be a flawed philosophy for many of the economies of the world.
	I mean, I suppose there's a few that it might work in, but certainly it hasn't worked well for the Russians.
	I don't think it works well in the United States.
	I think that the free market provides the greatest good for the greatest numbers.
	There's really no getting away from the fact, though, that Anti-aging and cloning technology are going to be available to those of means, correct?
	Well, certainly, but then so were cellular telephones only available to those of means initially, and the prices come down.
	I mean, anti-aging therapy, an anti-aging medicine program 20 years ago Would have cost the same thing we do today for, say, $4,000.
	You couldn't have gotten it 20 years ago, but if you even tried, you would have spent $50,000 to $100,000.
	Okay.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Ronald Klatz.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Ventura, California.
	Very soaked Ventura, I'm sure.
	Well, not quite yet, but we're expecting a lot more.
	All right.
	My question for Dr. Klatz, hello?
	Hello.
	Is under whose custody And under what circumstances would the clone itself be kept alive or in suspended animation?
	That's anyone's guess because it hasn't been done yet.
	There probably will be, when cloning becomes commercially available, there probably will be organizations such as Baxter International or The American Red Cross or any people, probably the people who are doing blood banking now will be doing organ banking.
	And what they will do is they will grow clones of various different HLA types or genetic types to be freely available if people should need organs for transplant.
	Perhaps an even better method would be to grow your own clone And keep it somewhere until such time as you needed it, though that would probably be an expensive venture.
	I agree.
	I just have these horrid visions of pickle jars all in a row.
	Well, you know, we do it now with blood, and we do it now with bone marrow, and we do it with bone, and we do it with all kinds of other bodily tissues.
	Cloning is really an extension of blood banking, or at least organ Well, Doctor, do you remember, and the movie won't come to me, and please, everybody, don't fax it to me, but there was a movie, a medical movie some years ago, and at the very end they walked into this room where all of these bodies were essentially hanging in hammocks.
	Coma.
	Thank you, coma.
	Thank you.
	No, I don't think that's where cloning will go.
	I think that we'll eventually get to the point where we'll be able to clone specific organs or specific groups of organs in essentially a skin bag.
	It won't look like humans.
	I can't see that happening.
	It's just too grotesque and too scary a proposition for most people.
	But instead, you think we could virtually grow skin bags with all the internal organs For example, how do you do that without a central nervous system telling your organs what to do?
	You can bring the organs up with a rudimentary nervous system, basically just the spinal cord.
	And there are ways of developing or growing an organism right now, essentially without a head and without a higher nervous system.
	Or perhaps a simple computer running it.
	Perhaps, but there are ways of doing it right now.
	With essentially where you would grow an anencephalic body bag.
	That's incredible.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Ronald Klatz.
	Hello, where are you?
	Good morning, Art, Dr. Klatz.
	My name is Dan and I'm just outside Chicago in Skokie.
	Okay.
	Welcome to the neighborhood.
	It's gorgeous up here.
	It's cold.
	I have gone blind.
	from glaucoma, but the underlying cause of this is something called Reger's Syndrome.
	And through the Genome Program, they've been able to map out what's gone wrong and where the Reger's lies.
	So my question lies in, first off, regeneration.
	We're talking about the central nervous system here, the optic nerve in my case.
	Regeneration versus development.
	of, first off, preventing something like reviews, and secondly, for people who already have that or who are
	blind, undoing it, either regenerating the optic nerve and or the eye.
	All right, so how does all of this possible future technology apply to him?
	Well, the Human Genome Project, which has apparently marked out the gene pathway that leads to this disease,
	that now allows for early detection.
	So certainly, we can detect people who are going to develop this disease earlier in life.
	So intervention can be taken.
	If, in fact, there is intervention, that can be effective.
	Beyond that, we may be able to actually insert a change in the gene that would alter the gene such that this syndrome of blindness would not occur.
	But that's 20 years from now, is it?
	That's a ways from now.
	Right now, he's blind.
	I'm very sorry to hear that.
	There is work going on with being able to essentially regenerate the optic nerve and be able to do essentially eye transplants So, it's at its very early stages, and no one has achieved great success.
	There's a researcher at the University of New York who has been able to take a mouse and essentially make an eyeball transplant work in the mouse, but the only thing he's been able to prove is that the mouse could see the difference between light and dark.
	He was able to prove that the mouse could actually see anything beyond that.
	And we're probably a ways away from being able to regenerate an eyeball, though.
	I mean, we have the cloning technology.
	I would imagine in a few years we could probably clone this gentleman some new eyes.
	But how can we make those eyes connect?
	That's a little bit of a ways away.
	But maybe there'll be a breakthrough.
	Maybe he'll get lucky.
	And in five years, when cloning technology is available, maybe there'll be a way to
	connect those clone dives.
	Okay, here's another social question for you.
	We are quickly mapping the human genome, as you have said already.
	2000-2001 will be done.
	And when we are, and before we get to another 20 or 30 years when we can actually begin, to put it, practical use, there is going to be a period of time, Doctor, when literally everything will be known about you With nothing more than a sample of your DNA when you're going to get cancer, have a heart attack, whether you're alcohol prone, violence prone, on down the list.
	They'll be able to map you as a human being, know everything there is to know.
	They're already collecting blood samples from our military for that purpose.
	Yes.
	So we're going to have 20 or 30 years, Doctor, where insurance companies are going to know everything they want to know about you.
	Don't they already?
	No, not to this degree.
	You're right, Art, and that is another social issue and an opportunity for harm to the individual.
	We live in a society that doesn't have a lot of anonymity left in it.
	I have great concerns about that.
	You were very anti-law a little while ago, but we're going to have a 20 or 30 year period here where privacy, with regard to your Well, has it ever stopped the insurance companies or the government?
	I'm just not a big believer in new laws.
	the interim laws preventing this kind of information from getting from people
	like you to insurance companies to the government but has it ever stopped the insurance companies or the
	government i don't i i'm just not a big believer in new laws
	i can clearly hear that uh... so you probably class yourself as a sort of a libertarian
	Republican bordering on libertarian, I suppose.
	You know, I am all for freedom of the individual and for self-determination.
	Really, anti-aging medicine is entirely about self-determination, about freedom, being able to choose your own destiny.
	And anything that gets in the way of that, I guess I would be against.
	So even information... Excuse me, even something that would indicate That somebody in their 20s, by the time they're 30, is going to have a heart attack.
	Hard information.
	You would still see that go to the insurance company, no problem.
	No, no, I'm not saying I would have it go to the insurance company.
	I think that a person's personal history and I think a person's personal life is their business and their business alone.
	I'm not for that being shared with insurance companies or with the government, but I am for the technology that allows that to take place because that gives the individual the opportunity to take action and prevent those diseases from occurring.
	How sure are you of that?
	In other words, if we get genetic information that somebody is going to have a failed heart, Well, I don't think you can get that.
	I think the most you can get is that someone has a propensity towards this disease or that disease.
	Just as you might know if you were to do some sports testing in elementary school, that one kid might be a better basketball player than another.
	You know, because he has longer levers, he has stronger legs, he has a more rapid growth spurt.
	I mean, all you can tell with any of this is a propensity towards... How much of a propensity?
	In other words, how sure could you be, once the human genome is completely mapped, that I would die by 30, heart attack, stroke, whatever?
	Well, it depends on the disease.
	If it's a 100% fatal genetic disorder, well then I could be 100% sure that that was going to happen.
	But most diseases are not that way.
	You are not your genetics.
	As a matter of fact, a genetic disease does not kill you by the time of 30.
	It generally will not kill you.
	All it can do is it can contribute towards your illness or towards your disability.
	For example, My dad had his first heart attack at age 42.
	I have type 4 hypertriglyceridemia.
	What that means is my liver is not very good at clearing cholesterol and triglycerides from my blood.
	When I was 25 and in medical school, I found out this bad news.
	And I found out that maybe having the standard American balanced diet of equal quantities of Coca-Cola and Twinkies was not doing my heart a whole lot of good.
	My cholesterol was over 300 and my triglycerides was approaching 500.
	So you were a ticking time bomb?
	I was a heart attack in process.
	Okay, and so I said, oh heck with this news.
	So I got very much involved in anti-aging medicine as a matter of self-preservation.
	Now I see how you've come to it, yes.
	And I, at age 42, when my dad had his first heart attack, and by the way, my sister had a triple bypass last year, and women are protected from heart disease until after the menopause.
	So it's something that goes into our family.
	It's a genetic flaw.
	Right.
	My arteries are whistle clean.
	I have a cardiac CT examination, a rapid CT, a computerized x-ray of my heart every year, and my arteries are whistle clean.
	And the reason for that is because I knew my flawed genetics early enough where I was able to take intervention by taking some antioxidants, by watching my diet just a little bit, and by taking some thyroid and some niacin.
	I was able to interrupt the genetic problem that would have taken many years off of my life otherwise.
	So, can you assign a percentage to genetic propensity versus environmental conditions?
	I'd say that most people will have no more than half and perhaps as little as a third of their health expectancy.
	Controlled by genetics.
	Unless they are one of the very few unlucky individuals who have a terminal genetic disorder and that will kill them early in life.
	But still, the promise of genetic research becoming practical is that even these things that are not controlled by genetics can be cured by genetics.
	Is that true?
	That's absolutely correct.
	Well, that's quite a promise.
	Everything has a genetic component to it, but how much of a genetic component?
	The point of the matter is that if you can go in and control the metabolism of the cell, control the actual mechanisms of life, it's like reaching into your computer and flipping those flip switches on your central processor.
	Good analogy.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Ronald Klatz.
	Hi!
	Hello there!
	You're on the air, sir.
	Where are you?
	I'm from La Grande, Oregon.
	Okay.
	My name's Mike.
	Okay, Mike.
	I'm Mike.
	And Art Billow.
	You have the greatest show on the planet.
	I've got to tell you that.
	Thank you.
	Right now.
	Doctor, I'm surprised nobody's actually asked this question, but maybe somebody has.
	I don't know.
	That's why we have you.
	Go ahead.
	Will cloning be used for, like, battle purposes?
	Police officers?
	Oh, I already asked that question.
	I said Pentagon use.
	In other words, obviously, Doctor, we could and no doubt would clone the perfect soldier, the perfect physical specimen, the testosterone-loaded giant who would be a killing machine.
	Yes?
	Well, maybe so.
	Maybe so.
	I don't know.
	I'm not in the Pentagon.
	The technology certainly exists for that to happen, and when you look at the Olympics, you can see just how excellent a human body can be trained and can be made to be with optimum genetics and optimum training methods.
	But isn't there going to be a race, just like there's been a race to the moon and a race to do this and that, there's going to be a cloning Well, I hope not, Art, but who knows?
	Certainly your guests would know better than I what's going on in the minds of the pundits at the Pentagon.
	I can only tell you where the technology is and where medical science is right now.
	But you are politically savvy enough to understand.
	I do understand and I think that that is something that needs to be concerned to all of us.
	And the solution is for the public to become more involved and more aware and you know practice this democracy that we have.
	If in fact we do live in a democracy then it's up to us to police ourselves because we get whatever we're willing to accept from our government.
	Doctor, a lot of people are going to want information that you've been dispensing tonight.
	There are various ways they can do that.
	One is to go to my website, go down to the good doctor's name, click on the link, go over to his website and read Another is to make a phone call.
	Would you give us that number again, please?
	Sure.
	It's the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine in Chicago, and the phone number in Chicago is 773-528-4333.
	Now, when can people call that number?
	There should be people in the office tomorrow 10 o'clock Chicago time.
	And what would they expect to glean?
	Well, they'll get on a mailing list and they'll be offered an opportunity to become a member of the Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine.
	They'll be receiving literature from the organization, a newsletter, they'll be able to subscribe to different scientific journals, and they'll be able to be put in touch with medical clinics around the country, around the world, and physicians all over the world who are practicing this new science.
	Of anti-aging medicine.
	Alright doctor, I have one more hour.
	If you want to go to bed, I can now release you or retain you for one additional hour if you're good to go.
	It's up to you Art, if you want to keep going, I'm enjoying the heck out of this.
	Let's rock!
	Alright folks, that number in Chicago is 773-528-4333.
	7 7 3 5 2 8 4 3 3 3 for those of you who want a copy of this program it is a four hour program
	And you can get it now, beginning now, by calling 1-800-917-4278.
	1-800-917-4278.
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	You're listening to Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Listeners west of the Rockies can call Art toll-free by dialing 1-800-BELL.
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	♪♪ ♪♪
	You'll know what I think of you Still know I remember you.
	You found someone new.
	And don't I make my bride.
	Welcome to Talk with Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye.
	From east of the Rockies, dial 1-800-825-5033.
	West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, 1-800-618-8255.
	1-800-618-8255. First time callers may reach Art at area code 702-727-1222. And you may
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	To reach Art from outside the U.S., first dial your access number to the USA, then 800-893-0903.
	This is Coast to Coast AM, from the Kingdom of My, with Art Beck.
	Dr. Ronald Klatz is my guest, recognized as the leading authority on the science of anti-aging.
	We're discussing that.
	We're discussing cloning.
	And many other things out on the edge.
	Once again, here is Dr. Klatz.
	And Doctor, I've got a story here from the Electronic Telegraph, UK News of Great Britain, that says, the first gene that influences human intelligence has now been found by scientists, a discovery with a huge social and educational implication.
	The research could herald the development of genetic tests to target potential High flyers pave the way to IQ-boosting smart drugs and raise fears, of course, that embryos that lack smart genes could be aborted.
	Any comments?
	Well, that's all true.
	That's the bright side and that's the dark side of this technology.
	It's up to us to decide how this technology is employed.
	Are we In your opinion, this is another subjective sort of question, but in your opinion, are we socially prepared to handle the speed at which we are moving technologically?
	No.
	No, I don't think we are.
	I think it's something that we just let happen to us, and I think that it's something that's going to have to become an issue for our society.
	Because things are happening at such an incredible pace.
	Most people don't have a clue as to what's going on that's affecting their lives, their children's lives, and that's affecting not just this life, but the next life they're going to have, or the next life after that they're going to have.
	Well, they're getting a clue from you this morning, and some of it is, frankly, very frightening.
	Well, I hope it's not too frightening.
	I hope that there's more of a message of hope than there is a message of fear in what I'm talking about.
	Well, there is both.
	There certainly is both.
	All right, a lot of people want to talk to you.
	East of the Rockies, you're on there with Dr. Klaps.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Where are you, sir?
	Columbus, Ohio.
	Columbus?
	Yes, where all the screaming lunatics do not represent the masses here.
	Okay.
	Quick question for Dr. Klaps.
	A few nights ago on CNN, I saw something on the news there where they had said they'd taken a microchip and grew some human brain cells on it.
	Yes, sir.
	Yes.
	How does that correlate with these clones coming out?
	I don't know if you really want the answer to that, but here it comes.
	Doctor?
	Okay, well.
	Okay.
	There is a project ongoing in Japan, has been for the last almost 10 years, and it's specifically, and also at UCLA in California, and it is to Integrate a microchip with human nerve tissue.
	And they're very, this is very early stage development.
	I don't know how far they've gone with it.
	I didn't see that particular piece on CNN.
	But the idea is, is that if you can interface the digital with the cerebral, And create a digital cerebral interface.
	You will then be able to accomplish a number of very interesting, very positive, and also very frightening events.
	You will be able to essentially log on to your computer directly through your brain.
	Just like in that movie with Oh, it was a very popular movie out, science fiction out, just earlier last year where the fellow had the electrodes they put into his brain and he was able to download all this information from a computer.
	That's right.
	Now that's one thing, that's downloading.
	Now there's uploading as well, and uploading is when we will eventually, if technology continues to move ahead at its current pace, we will be able to upload our, essentially, The total volume of our thoughts, our feelings, our memories, our inclinations, our intellect into some supercomputer somewhere and essentially make a duplicate copy of our persona.
	Would that totality of uploaded data contain a consciousness?
	Good question.
	I don't know.
	If you're a basic scientist and you break things down to the least common denominator, you would argue perhaps that if you're a materialist in science, you might argue that consciousness is a function of complexity and that when you get enough of these individual units together enough bits and pieces of
	uh... processing power together
	that consciousness evolved out of that power of computing there are others who argue that consciousness is an
	individual item akin to the soul
	it will be interesting to find out who was right do you have any favorite theories
	well i'm hoping that consciousness grows out of complexity of computation.
	patient.
	Because if that is correct, then we will be able to create conscious thinking machines.
	If that is correct, then it would be a sum total of speed and storage.
	And we are making immense progress in both areas.
	Doubling speed of processing every 18 months.
	Storage has gone totally berserk.
	Yes.
	I wonder when the first machine is going to say good morning.
	How are you?
	I don't know, but I am... I'm fine.
	I'm hoping that that will occur in my own lifetime, because if that's the case, then truly, immortality of the conscious Yes.
	Of our consciousness.
	Yes.
	Immortality of our persona will be achievable when we're able to download our personalities onto a chip.
	And wouldn't that create a rather interesting reality akin to perhaps early scriptures of heaven on earth when we will in fact be able to be omniscient?
	When we can have that digital cerebral interface, we will be omniscient.
	We will live truly forever, and we will be all-knowing, and we will be able to merge our consciousness with those of many others, perhaps of millions of others.
	To me it's interesting to note that a mere hundred years ago, For what you're saying now, or it's equivalent then, they would have put you on a large wooden cross with a bunch of kindling wood under you.
	I've had some of my colleagues try that already.
	Oh, really?
	Professionally?
	I can imagine.
	Professionally speaking.
	I can imagine.
	Wes to the Rockies.
	You're on the air with Dr. Klatz.
	Hello.
	Good morning, Dr. Where are you, sir?
	This is Brett from Santa Cruz.
	Okay.
	My question for the doctor.
	The alchemist Paracelsus of the Middle Ages describes an alchemical process of what he termed as growing little men, and I was wondering if you view even a remote connection between modern day cloning and the writings of Paracelsus.
	Philosophically, perhaps.
	The science, I don't think, the science does not It's interesting you mentioned the alchemists, the alchemists were really, they were not initially looking, the real gold, the holy grail of the alchemists was not to convert lead to gold, it was in fact to achieve immortality through the philosopher's stone.
	First time caller online, you're on the air with Dr. Ronald Platt, hi.
	Hello, where are you sir?
	Call us toll free at 1-800-618-8255.
	I can't let you give your last name on the air.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	That's not the only rule we've got around here.
	No last names.
	Let us begin again.
	Your name is Tom.
	I'm sorry, yes.
	First of all, I wanted to tell you the name of that movie.
	It was Johnny Mnemonic.
	Johnny Mnemonic.
	Thank you.
	Right.
	What I wanted to say was that I have always been enamored with longevity.
	I always keep up on the Guinness Book of World Records and I have all kinds of articles and stuff.
	What I wanted to say is that from the very, you know, you were talking about anti-aging, I like to believe that That I know that everyone grows old and their skin gets, you know, older and all this and that, but I like to think that a lot of it can be done internally with the brain.
	I mean... You're saying it can be done spiritually?
	Well, sort of.
	The thoughts that you think surge through your body and, you know, Yeah, no, no, I exactly understand where you're going, Caller.
	Doctor, people are said to be able to cure themselves of disease with mental processes.
	Absolutely.
	I think we know that people given sugar pills who are told that it will cure their illness more times than not, it does because they believe that it will.
	That's right, and that's how hypnosis works.
	The mind is a very, very powerful tool.
	And it is the master regulatory organ, not just through the nervous system, but through the endocrine system for the entire body.
	The mind controls, the brain controls our immune system.
	And the immune system is really what keeps us from being diseased.
	And so, there is an awful lot to be said for the mind-body connection.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Ronald Klatz.
	Where are you, please?
	Yes, good evening, Art.
	Good to speak to you and Dr. Klatz.
	My name is George.
	I'm from the Kingdom of Dane in Madison, Wisconsin, WTDY land.
	Very good.
	I just have a couple questions for Dr. Klatz.
	I didn't catch the first couple hours, but I wasn't sure if you talked about the telomeres.
	I'm not sure if that's... No, but we will.
	Telomeres.
	If that's directed directly with some researchers in Texas, and supposedly they have some enzymes that can lengthen these.
	I understand the biological clock.
	Yeah, the telomeres, I believe, as we age, get shorter, and they're out at the end of chromosomes or something?
	Is that right?
	At the end of the DNA strands or something?
	Thank you.
	Yes.
	They're very much like the ends of your shoelaces, the little plastic tips on the ends that keep the shoelaces from fraying.
	And these telomeres are perhaps one of the important biological clocks of the body.
	And it's thought that you can reset those biological clocks by adding calamarase, which is an enzyme to the body, to the cells.
	Now, that has not been done except experimentally, but there is some reason to believe that we may be able to reset the clocks of our body.
	Also, it's interesting that cancer cells have large amounts of this calamarase enzyme, which is responsible, to some degree, for their immortalized activity.
	Okay.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Ronald Klass.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	This is Dan in Virginia.
	Hi, Dan.
	That's a great show tonight.
	Both of you are doing a fantastic job.
	Thank you.
	I have a couple of questions.
	Dr. Klantz, is the level of testosterone connected in with the functioning of the thyroid?
	That's my first question.
	There is feedback loops between the thyroid, the testes.
	Really, all the endocrine systems of the body are, in one way or another, feeding back to one another on a constant basis.
	This is called homeostasis and is what is responsible for keeping all the organ systems of the body in sync.
	Okay.
	My second question concerns the pineal gland.
	What research have you done as far as any hormones associated with that and its function?
	Well, the most important hormone associated with the pineal gland Uh, is melatonin.
	Melatonin we're finding is, uh, which is available in health food stores right now.
	Melatonin is called the dark hormone because it's secreted in darkness at night.
	Uh, melatonin is a very important hormone because it triggers the onset of the sleep process.
	Right.
	And as people get older, their levels of melatonin drop significantly.
	As a matter of fact, your melatonin levels are highest naturally when you're about eight years old.
	And if you've ever seen children who are asleep, they sleep like the dead.
	You can't wake them up.
	You yell at them.
	You shake them.
	They're still sleeping incredibly deeply.
	And as we get a little older, we don't sleep as deeply.
	And as we get older still, we sleep very ineffectually.
	And many people over the age of 50 have sleep disturbances to a large extent because of the lack of melatonin.
	When you give melatonin to elderly people who have sleep disturbance, an interesting thing happens.
	They start sleeping very naturally and very much more youthfully.
	And sleep is an incredibly important part of maintaining health and well-being.
	Also, one last question.
	I believe there is a hormone, I call it a hormone, but it's used for dwarfism.
	That's human growth hormone.
	Very powerful anti-aging drug.
	And that takes us full circle to the beginning of the program.
	That's right.
	We had talked about how human growth hormone has just been approved for adults by the FDA for You know, for aging-related disorders, because as you grow older, the amount of human growth hormone drops, and we're finding that when you give human growth hormone to elderly individuals, an interesting thing happens.
	They start to, their bodies start to change and they become more youthful.
	They develop stronger organs, their heartbeat is stronger, they develop more muscle mass, they lose fat mass effortlessly, and there are clinics all over the country now that they're setting up, anti-aging clinics, That are administering human growth hormones specifically for anti-aging purposes.
	Alright, look, a lot of people out there are sitting there saying, okay, sounds good, but I go into my doctor, I make an appointment, what do I say when I get in there?
	What do I say to my doctor?
	Ask your doctor if he's a member of the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine.
	And if he's not, then have him call us in Chicago and have him join up.
	We have over 4,000 physicians and scientists in 40 countries around the world.
	Oh no, I understand. But I mean, if I want a pres...
	I want to get out of my doctor's office with a prescription for anti-aging hormone.
	Yes. So what do I say to him, other than to have him call and join,
	if I just want to get out of there with a prescription?
	Well, probably the best way to get on a program of anti-aging therapy is to contact the Academy and find a physician.
	We have several hundred doctors who are practicing this way.
	Go to one of them already and if you can't find a doctor in your area who is practicing anti-aging medicine, then go out and get a copy of a book called Stopping the Clock Or Grow Young with HGH, Human Growth Hormone.
	Both those books are by me.
	I hate to recommend my own book.
	Oh, you should have said something a long time ago.
	Well, I don't like to pump my own books, you know.
	Yes, yes, you should.
	Okay, the names of the books again, please.
	Are Grow Young with HGH, Human Growth Hormone.
	Right.
	That's by HarperCollins.
	Right.
	Or by me, Dr. Ron Klatz, with HarperCollins.
	And the other book is Stopping the Clock, by Bantam, it's a paperback.
	And are these available generally nationwide in bookstores?
	Yes, they're available in bookstores all over the country.
	Stopping the Clock is about all the therapies that are available in anti-aging, including nutrition and hormone therapy and exercise and diet and everything else.
	And Grow Young with H.H.
	is specifically hormone replacement therapy.
	Alright folks, available nationwide.
	We're going to break here at the bottom of the hour, Dr. Ronald Klatz.
	The world authority on the science of anti-aging is my guest.
	We'll be right back.
	This, of course, is Coast to Coast AM.
	This is a video of the Coast to Coast AM.
	Then, 800-893-0903.
	If you're a first-time caller, call Art at 702-727-1222.
	From east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
	West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, call Art at 1-800-618-8255.
	including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico.
	Call Art at 1-800-618-8255 or call Art on the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
	This is Coast to Coast AM from the Kingdom of Nye.
	Dr. Ronald Klatz is my guest.
	He's in Chicago.
	Anti-aging.
	Cloning.
	All those edgy things that we're getting so close to are on top of right now.
	That's what we're talking about.
	We'll get right back to him.
	Alright, 2-4 stall.
	Lots and lots of requests.
	Please, everybody.
	If you want a copy of this program, you can get it by calling 1-800-917-4278.
	It's going to be a four-hour program, obviously.
	1-800-917-4278.
	Now, once again, Dr. Ronald Klatz.
	It's going to be a four-hour program, obviously.
	1-800-917-4278.
	Now, once again, Dr. Ronald Klatz, doctor, as these technologies become, just start to
	become available, anti-aging, eventually immortality, cloning, they at first are going to be very
	expensive and available to the few rather than the many, and of course that then will
	fairly rapidly change, and like VCRs and everything else, it will get cheaper.
	Question is, when it first becomes available, who decides?
	Who decides who gets the organs that are grown, who gets the new cloned body, who gets the upload, the download?
	How do you make such decisions?
	Who makes them?
	How do we set up a little panel of gods to decide who receives the benefits?
	You like asking the difficult questions.
	Oh, I do.
	For example, would you be a person who would be on such a panel?
	Well, I do keep a big leather book, you know, and I have a left side of the page and a right side of the page.
	It's really hard to say who's going to make these decisions.
	Hopefully we're not going to be in a position like we were when the artificial kidney was first invented where there had to be, you know, because of the lack of this technology, literally there was ethics panels that were set up to decide who got dialysis and who didn't and those who didn't died.
	Oh that's right, that's right.
	Hopefully the technology, you know technology as it develops today is almost so rapid from the laboratory into our lives that I don't think we're going to be faced with a lack of availability when this technology comes on board.
	I think it's going to be first utilized by the people who are at the heart of the movement, people such as myself who are I guess the true believers who are willing to belly up to the bar to be experimental guinea pigs with themselves.
	Did you see Jurassic Park?
	Yes, I did.
	Would it be possible with cloning to, this is rather morbid, but to go to the grave of somebody who's been in some reasonably way preserved or even not so, obtain DNA and clone?
	Well, right now you need a stem cell, which is a lot more than just DNA.
	But it is certainly conceivable that in the not-too-distant future you could, in fact, go out and make yourself another Elvis.
	Another Elvis?
	But it wouldn't be Elvis.
	I mean, it would be Elvis in body, it would be Elvis in form, it would be Elvis in shape, but it would not have that quintessential... Are you sure?
	Something that makes an Elvis.
	Are you sure?
	No, I'm not sure, except that I had a very, very beloved pet.
	I had a fantastic air dealer.
	He was probably the best dog in the world.
	And when he passed on, I went out and I looked for a replacement.
	And there was no replacement for Lex.
	Despite the fact that I was able to find as close to a clone as I guess you can get because I went to the breeder and the blood lines are very well established and I saw a bunch of little Lex puppies that were similar and looked awfully a lot like my dog Lex.
	They lacked the personality.
	They lacked that quintessential ingredient and I think that develops... But they were not identical genetic clones?
	They're very close.
	Close?
	Very close.
	Not quite identical, but for all intents and purposes, they look the same.
	They look the same.
	Well, sure.
	They look the same.
	Until we're able to uplink our memories, our thoughts, our feelings, which again is not beyond the realm of possibility.
	When that happens, yes, you're right, you're going to be able to keep people around as long as you want and have as many copies as you like.
	Everybody could have who needs the radio.
	We could each have an Art Bell in our living room.
	All right, that's enough.
	Keys to the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Klatz.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi.
	Where are you?
	This is Stu from El Paso, Texas, the home of the El Pinco Times, the only American newspaper to the left of Karl Marx.
	Nobody likes their newspapers.
	What's on your mind, sir?
	I'd like to add some arrows to your quiver with which to send off those who think it prudent to place control of any technology in the hands of any government.
	Right ahead, sir.
	I can use all the arrows I can.
	Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself.
	Can he then be trusted with the government of others?
	Or have we found angels in the forms of kings to govern him?
	And who said that, sir?
	That was Thomas Jefferson.
	That's an excellent quote.
	Thank you very much.
	I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of society but the people themselves.
	And if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion.
	Also very true.
	If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, It expects what never was and never will be.
	And one last, this by Anatole France, or a paraphrase of that, if the majority of people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
	Is that an argument against democracy?
	Uh, that is an argument against democracy in favor of a republic, which we are supposed to be.
	All right.
	Well, you'd never know it from Columbus yesterday.
	Well, to the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Klass.
	Good morning.
	Hello, Art.
	Hi.
	This is Joe from Sacramento.
	Sacramento.
	Yes, sir.
	My question is, if you cloned somebody, would the clone have the same thought pattern or personality?
	Well, that's just where we were, and I guess the answer is we aren't Sure.
	Yeah.
	Or maybe that's not the answer.
	I guess, Dr. Klatz, I shouldn't put words in your mouth.
	Really, you're saying that there would be a difference.
	I think that unless you can reproduce that personality and thoughts are more than genetic.
	They're environmental.
	They're environmental.
	What you can look at is you can look at identical twins.
	Now, identical twins are very similar, but they're not the same.
	Unless, you know, I'm talking about identical twins who are even grown, sorry, who are even raised in the same household.
	When you take twins that are separated at birth, they're very much different.
	Even though they do have the same sort of taste, they are in fact very different.
	So, a clone would be very close to, but unless it was given the same environment To be reared in, it would not be identical to.
	Your take on Dr. Seed there in Chicago?
	I've heard Dr. Seed on some news programs, CNN specifically, and I was not impressed by Dr. Seed's demeanor.
	However, knowing how stressful the media can be, I don't wish to judge him harshly by that.
	I think that it's important that if someone is going to get into the cloning business, to clone people, that they really consider the implications very strongly and I think that it should be in the hands of many rather than the hands of the few.
	Would you apply that same logic to Dr. Kevorkian?
	Yes, I think I would.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Klatz.
	Hello?
	Hi Art.
	Hi Dr. Klatz.
	This is Ann in Independence, Missouri.
	Okay.
	I was really interested to hear you talk about the immune system, particularly the power of the immune system, because I have systemic lupus.
	And I'm wondering if Dr. Klatz thinks this is, the cause of this disease is genetic.
	I've heard several different theories.
	And what are the best things to do to It's my poor beleaguered little immune system.
	Good general question.
	SLE certainly has an immune component.
	It's an immune disorder.
	There's probably a genetic component, though we don't know that for sure.
	How much is a genetic component?
	I will tell you this, there is a huge body of knowledge that is being developed right now on how to optimize immunity.
	And immunity can be optimized in many ways through nutrition, through drug therapies, through meditation, through alterations in lifestyle.
	And I would urge you to explore those various, you know, different methods, not just through your local medical society, through conventional medicine, but maybe even through some of the alternative medical practitioners that are out there, because there's an awful lot that's known about immunity in folk medicine that is still a cutting edge and the basis of laboratory research for conventional medicine.
	What's your take on Dr. Duesberg, again back to the AIDS subject briefly, because it relates, of course, to the immune system.
	Dr. Duesberg thinks that HIV is not the causative agent of AIDS at all.
	Well, Dr. Duesberg certainly is a very accomplished virologist, not to take anything away from him.
	And initially, early in the outbreak of AIDS, I thought Dr. Duesberg might have an interesting point.
	However, now that so much has been done on AIDS and so much is there in the way of drug
	therapies, if the HIV virus is not the cause of the organism, then what the heck are we
	treating?
	I certainly believe that there is a lot more to the immune system than we know about and
	that it is an individual's immunity that protects them from everything, including the AIDS virus.
	But I think that these years and years of research have taken a lot of wind out of their sails with the argument that the HIV is an incidental organism.
	He connects lifestyle largely with How does he account for the transmissions through newborn children?
	I forget. I interviewed the fellow and I'm sorry I forget.
	That's a really damn good question.
	When we do finally cure AIDS, will we have collected a great deal more knowledge about
	the immune system itself?
	Incredible amounts of information about how the immune system works.
	That is the only bright light I can see behind AIDS.
	As a matter of fact, I credit the AIDS Epidemic with the slow onset or the slow development of anti-aging because prior to the AIDS epidemic, anti-aging medicine was ready to explode into the public consciousness, into the scientific consciousness as a ripe area for research.
	AIDS came along and really siphoned off a lot of the research funds for new areas of endeavor, which anti-aging medicine was really, I think, one of the primary focuses.
	Of new research.
	A disproportionate amount of research, Williams.
	There are arguments both pro and con on that regard.
	I certainly think that just as with the war on cancer, a lot of money has been squandered and foolishly spent.
	There's been a lot of interesting avenues, especially non-drug avenues or non-proprietary drug avenues that have not been explored.
	Well, we have discovered these protease inhibitors.
	Now, how big a leap is that?
	It's not the cure, but it certainly is a big step in the right direction.
	As protease inhibitors, it's just another category.
	I mean, we've identified literally hundreds of antiviral agents that all are promising to one extent or another.
	Well, the space program gave us Teflon.
	AIDS has given us protease inhibitors.
	Is that fair?
	Yes.
	I think it's given us a whole lot more than protease inhibitors.
	I think it's given us probably a good 50 to 100 new antiviral drug therapies.
	Well, part of that cocktail AIDS patients take is AZT.
	Now, Dr. Duesberg's position was that AZT kills people.
	It's a very toxic substance.
	When they take it, he says you will see a spike in, I believe, white cells in your immune system response.
	And very quickly, you will see a very fast decline, and that's AZT killing off the immune system.
	Comments?
	All I can say is that the proof is in the pudding and people are living longer with AIDS now,
	so we're doing something right.
	I am not a virologist and I do not treat AIDS patients myself, so I can't speak from firsthand experience.
	Other than to comment on the cocktail, and that's self-evident.
	All right.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Ronald Klatz.
	Hello?
	Hello.
	Yes, you're on the air, sir.
	Where are you?
	Dubuque, Iowa.
	Okay.
	My name's Jeff.
	Good morning, gentlemen.
	Doctor, you talked earlier about the cow egg.
	Oh, yes, the cow egg.
	Now, the human sperm, would that determine the sex of the embryo?
	Yes, what you would do is, I mean, this is certainly, you know, it's speculation whether this will work with humans, though if it works with rhinoceroses and pandas and frogs and guinea pigs, you know, you would have a hard time believing that it would not work with humans.
	But what you would do is, the egg is essentially sterilized.
	And the DNA, the genetic material within the egg is removed, and then whatever you put in its place is the DNA that will grow into the fetus.
	And so you would put, you know, chromosomes from the sperm and chromosomes, you know, from a female.
	Or mix them any way you wish.
	But you actually do envision the day that a cow could give birth to a human.
	Well, it's technologically feasible.
	I mean, we're on that track already.
	Aesthetically, it's not at all pleasing.
	No, no, absolutely not.
	I mean, I'm sure that the demand for milk and other dairy products would skyrocket.
	I shouldn't be so... Well, it's late.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Ronald Klatz.
	Hello.
	Yes, Art.
	Where are you, pray tell?
	Ticonderoga, New York.
	Okay, extinguish thy radio for us, please.
	Gone.
	I've heard a lot about fasting and juicing and I was wondering if you could talk a little on it and any readings I could look up on.
	Alright, good.
	It's a good question.
	Dr. Lorraine Day talked about fasting and juicing and she claims that's how she arrested her cancer.
	There is a tremendous body of literature to support both of those therapies.
	There's a book that's available through the Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine in Chicago called Seven Secrets of Anti-Aging Medicine that speaks very clearly to those topics.
	Fasting and juicing are both natural ways of detoxifying the body and stimulating immunity.
	And they both have their place in health as well as in disease.
	There is one warning for anybody who doesn't.
	I went on a cruise recently and had the opportunity to go to a juice bar.
	And the juice I got had a high content of beet juice in it.
	And when one drinks beet juice, one should be prepared over the next 24 to 48 hours to have Christmas colored waste.
	It's an extremely worrisome thing if you've never been through it before, so a word to the wise.
	We're almost out of time.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Klatz.
	Where are you, please?
	Hi, I'm Elf in Oklahoma.
	Okay.
	Oh, your radio's on, isn't it?
	Yeah, one moment.
	First-time callers, area 702-727-1222.
	Programs you'll have all the time in the world.
	Yeah, that's right.
	All right, if you have a quick question, proceed.
	Yes, I was wanting to ask the doctor, because he was mentioning guinea pigs earlier.
	Yes?
	Yeah, I was wondering if they're taking names or numbers of people willing to be guinea pigs.
	Oh, I see.
	In other words, volunteers, doctor.
	Not yet.
	Not yet.
	When I say guinea pigs, I'm saying that people who are involved in anti-aging medicine are their own guinea pigs.
	I mean, this is, in many ways, this is cutting-edge technology, and you serve as your own control with these nutritional therapies and some of the drug therapies, some of the hormone therapies.
	And so, it's a field that is, you know, where the doctors themselves are volunteers for their own research.
	Not that the research is dangerous, but this is new stuff.
	It's cutting edge.
	All right.
	The titles, again, of your books, please.
	Well, in the bookstores you can find, from Harper Collins, Grow Young with HGH, and that's human growth hormone.
	That's a hard back and a soft cover.
	is Stopping the Clock by Bantam Books.
	Stopping the Clock is about anti-aging in general and all the different therapies.
	Grow Young with HGH is specifically about human growth hormone and other hormone replacement therapies for anti-aging purposes.
	In bookstores across America or you can call area code 773-528-4333.
	area code seven seven three five two eight
	four three three three what hours uh... the american academy of anti-aging medicine is open
	from uh... ten a.m.
	to 4 p.m.
	Chicago time.
	Doctor, it has been a great pleasure.
	We will most assuredly do it again, my friend.
	We're out of time.
	Thank you so much, Art, and thank you to all your listeners.
	It was a tremendous amount of fun on my part.

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