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Feb. 4, 1998 - Art Bell
01:57:39
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Alien Implants - Dr. Roger Leir - Derrel Sims
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You're listening to a rebroadcast of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
All right, first to Central California and Dr. Roger Lear.
Dr. Lear, welcome.
Nice to be here with you, Art.
Are you keeping your head above water?
I think so.
We've had a beautiful day today and a chance to dry up and have all the excess seep its way back into the sea.
All right.
If you would not mind, I did not retain your bio, so if you would fill the audience in a little bit on your background, it would be helpful.
Well, it's quite simple, Art.
I've been in private practice as a podiatric surgeon for about 33 years.
I've had since childhood an interest in ufology.
I remember my father walking into the kitchen that interesting day in 1947 and throwing
a newspaper down on the table and reading the headline to my mother about the U.S. Air
Force capturing a flying disc. He expounded on that to such a great extent, I guess it
left a permanent impression on my mind. I have been a private pilot for another ten
it for a number of years.
I have 1,700 hours collected in both multi-engine and single-engine aircraft.
I was IFR rated, instrument flight rated.
A lot of doctors fly, don't they?
Yes, they do.
I was with a group called the Flying Physicians and they gave me an opportunity to go down to some less fortunate areas such as Mexico and give some medical care down there.
It's a real nice duty.
When did you encounter your first implant, Doctor?
The first set of surgeries, Art, was done on August 19, 1995.
And we did two cases, one male, one female.
A female, two apparent objects in the big toe, the left foot, and a male patient who had an object in the back of the left hand.
And as long as you brought out the subject of the bio, I'd like to get some facts just crystal clear to the audience so they really understand where I'm coming from personally.
Alright.
What I am and what I am not.
I do surgery on the foot.
I do not do surgery in other areas of the body.
But it being in practice for as long as I have, I have colleagues in the other specialties.
So when they say that FIRST has performed a surgery on a hand or a head or a foot or whatever, I may participate in actually doing the surgery on the foot or I may assist or be present at the other surgeries.
I am the one that set up the team.
I put the whole thing together, so to speak, and each does his part.
It's all volunteer work.
No one charges a dime for their services.
Also, what I am and what I am not, I am a collector of what we believe is physical evidence that seems to be leading to the fact that people who allege abduction experiences, a few of them or some of them, have objects in their body which, so far, looks like, after some severe analysis, that they may have extraterrestrial origins.
What I am not is a person who has a multiplicity of fields of expertise.
I am not a physicist.
I am not a metallurgist.
So when I interpret metallurgical micrographs, I'm doing that because I essentially have the material in front of me that other scientists have put forth.
And in the realm that that is now is where it belongs.
What Darrell and I have been trying to do is to really make hard science for the field of ufology.
Well, it sure does need it.
Before we get to Darrell, and I'm about to bring Darrell on and ask him a bit about himself, there is something that you told me on the phone earlier that is Really shocking, and I thought I'd let you pass that on to the audience.
I just can't imagine what that could be.
You probably realize the organization that we formed, the Fund for Interactive Research
in Space Technology, through the years now is receiving information from various sources
on really all aspects of the UFO phenomenon. But today I got an interesting personal call
this morning from a lady that I've known for many, many years. She has a significant other
who works in the aerospace industry. I've known that. I've never really quizzed her
as to what firm he works for or what he does.
Sure.
Being the section director for Mofon Ventura, Santa Barbara County, I'm present at all the meetings and these folks have been invited several times and came and I listened to the comments that their significant other would make going out the door.
Kind of making remarks like, oh, you guys are kind of strange.
Show me an E.T.
and I'll shake hands with him.
Shaking their heads.
Right.
Yeah.
A real downing, Thomas.
I had fun.
I enjoyed the evening.
Thanks for inviting me.
Bye-bye.
Sure.
Well, this morning, she tells me the fellow came home last night and his face was as red as a beet.
And he was just, you know, beside himself.
So she says, I asked him, you know, what's going on?
What's happening?
So he began to tell her the story of what was going on at work.
Now, I find this morning that he is a quality assurance control inspector in the aerospace industry.
His check does not come from any one of the aerospace companies.
He is employed by the DOD.
Department of Defense.
And what seems to be the problem, as he explains to my friend, he is in danger of losing his job because the entity that he was working on was Skylab, and particularly the solar panels.
The Skylab solar panels, that would be for our new space station.
That's correct.
That was his job.
He's Assurance Quality Control for the DoD, and his job was to work with particularly the solar panels for this particular entity.
So she said, well, what's going on?
What's happening?
What's got you so irritated?
He says, well, he says, I may not only lose my job on this particular I don't know, but he says, my hours can be greatly reduced.
And he had extreme monetary concerns because they just found out last night that NASA canceled the contract for the Skylab.
My God.
And so she said to him, well, my gosh, why did they do that?
Are they cutting back on the budget or whatever?
And she said, and I haven't told you this Art, that he pointed to the ceiling and says, because of them.
And she said, oh my, who's them?
And he said, I don't know who in the heck or what they are, but they told us to stay out of space.
So they've canceled, according to what she told me this morning, they canceled the contracts for Moon, Mars missions and the Skylab because the Skylab was supposed to be a stepping stone Where we could launch inexpensive manned space flights.
Alright, I can fill you in a little bit.
There was a memo on January 9th, which cancelled all manned missions to the Moon or Mars.
Period.
I mean, it flat cancelled them.
In the last couple of days, after a big controversy, Daniel Golden, NASA Administrator, reversed the whole thing.
But without giving any details of any missions that are planned or budgeted.
So, in other words, there actually was a memo that went out that said the whole thing's being cancelled, and the political flack hit the fan, Golden reversed it, but now what you're saying is almost like another source, and we're cancelling the space station?
Yeah, here's a totally different source.
Of course, I heard the same thing that you had heard.
In fact, we had talked about this brief, and I thought, you know, perhaps there was some kind of budget cutting going on if they were canceling the contracts.
They just were probably going to have them do new ones, you know, maybe to save money or something.
But now it's a totally independent source with all the emotion involved.
And as I said, a guy who came to Mufon meetings and would chuckle and laugh, you know, about the things we were talking about.
He's not laughing now.
He's not laughing now, and is an apparent victim of what's going on.
And again, the real kicker is, when asked why, he pointed up and said, because of them.
That's right.
And he told her, he says, I don't know who in the heck they are.
But they have told us not to go back into space.
All right.
Let us bring on with us Darryl Sims.
Darryl, welcome to the program.
Hello, Art.
Hi. Where are you, Darryl?
I'm in Houston, Texas.
Houston. All right.
Gee, NASA country, huh?
Yes.
What are you...
Way down the road.
Were you aware of what Dr. Lear was going to say?
As a matter of fact, I was, and I've tried to get a confirmation or a denial one way or the other from some
people in NASA that I know that would be able to validate that or not.
And I was not able to, for some strange reason, was not able to get in touch with the people tonight.
Nobody answering phones?
Well, email or anything.
I was real surprised by that because normally they would answer within an hour or two at the latest.
Darryl, if you would, give us a little bit of your own background.
Have I ever interviewed you, Darryl?
Certainly you have.
In fact, you gave me a compliment one time that I framed.
I'm the investigator you interviewed several years ago, and I did a post hypnotic suggestion on one of the abductees we had with their permission, and it got a reaction from the alien presence In fact, they reacted in such a way that they abducted eight of our people, including my senior investigator.
It became a very famous case, and we ended up getting an ocular implant out of the deal.
It's an absolutely incredible set of cases.
It's the first time that I know of that there seems to be a reaction by them to something we may have done.
Dr. Lear, of course, is the Medical Director of FIRST, and I am the Director of Physical Evidence.
My primary work in FIRST is a hypnotic anesthesiologist, and I bring to the table over 27 years of investigative experience.
I used to be in the Central Intelligence Agency for two years in covert ops during the Vietnam War.
I was not in Vietnam.
I was in country.
The second thing is that I was also a senior military police officer and have a host of other skills that I bring into the investigative arena.
I'm master level NLP, Neuro Linguistic Programming.
I'm a hypnotic anesthesiologist by trade, master hypnotherapist.
That means I teach and certify people in hypnotherapy and also have special certifications in medical hypnotherapy in specialized areas.
Okay, Darryl, you know the moment you say CIA, red flags go up all over the place.
Of course.
And the reason they should go up, and anyone that's been connected with any of the intelligence communities that's in UFO investigations certainly should be looked at, in my view.
I didn't have to tell anybody that years ago, nearly, I guess close to 15 years ago, I didn't have to tell anybody that at all.
No one would have ever been the wiser.
I felt like it was important to divulge your background militarily and intelligence-wise for two primary reasons.
One is it's just good policy for people to know where people are at or where they've been.
Very important.
I think that people, if they know you've been in the intelligence community, it's real difficult for someone to think that you're spying on them if, in fact, you told them that's what you used to be involved with.
That's right.
So that would be one of the most bizarre things I can imagine, telling somebody that you were in something like that.
It tends to alleviate a lot of fears with some people.
How did you and Dr. Roger Lear connect?
Oh, this was a very interesting story, and I'll be brief.
I was presenting at a conference in Southern California in Los Angeles, and during this time a lady came by, looked at some of the medical evidence.
I had x-rays and other things and she and Roger were together there from Ventura, Mufon
and they looked over the material and Roger said, well those look like surgical clips
in that lady's feet, why don't you have them removed?
And I said, well they are not surgical clips and they appear to be some type of implantation.
And he looked over the situation and as Roger will state and has stated publicly many times
on TV and other places, he is a consummate skeptic.
He is in the scientific realm of things so to speak and so his point was to, well okay
let's remove the objects and get rid of them and that will be it.
you.
Of course, the events that ensued after that, whenever we first lined these people up for surgery, I called Roger and told him, I said, I have to tell you two things or no one's ever going to believe this in the history of this entire business.
He said, what's that?
I said, well, number one, if these in fact are implants and they're alien related, you're going to find no signs of inflammatory response, either chronic or acute.
And he laughed, and he said, well, I can assure you that that's not going to happen.
No rejection reaction?
None whatsoever.
I said, you will not find that if this is what this material is.
Number two, you're going to find nerve cells surrounding the objects, and the wrong kind in a lot of them.
And he kind of giggled and said, well, OK.
Those would be, for the layman, Yes, they had nerve proprioceptors surrounding the alleged implant.
After the pathology reports came back, he called me several times that day and finally got me at 1130 at night and said, you're not going to believe what the path report says.
And I said, I better do.
And he said, no signs of inflammatory response, either chronic or acute.
And he said, that's from two different pathologists.
Unknown.
They have no idea what it is they're looking at.
It's just tissue.
Is that physically possible, Doctor?
Well, let's say in the 33 years of removing things from the human body, and I've removed a lot of them, as you can well imagine, because people step on all sorts.
Everything from coral to metal to paper to whatever.
When you get a PATH report back, you always find that there's some kind of inflammatory response, either acute or chronic.
I might point out that some pseudo-scientific authorities think that once something has been in the body for many years, Such as during one of our wars, or some of the wars, I should say.
A piece of shrapnel.
Shrapnel or splatter effect.
People get pelted with stuff and if it's too dangerous to take out, it's left in there and people get along okay.
But at any time, if you biopsy these or you remove them, you would see evidence of a chronic inflammatory reaction.
In other words, the body always rejects in some way or shows signs of rejection of foreign That's correct.
if it uh... doesn't belong there uh... the body recognizes that and if they can't get rid of
it that it just falls off alright uh... good enough of both of you hold on
we'll be right back where at the bottom of the hour my guests are doctor roger
lear and they're all sense from houston
xc i a m more The implant pictures are on the website.
Go take a look right now.
I'm Art Bell.
Please specify the date you heard this broadcast.
seven eight please specify the date you heard this broadcast that's one eight
hundred nine one seven four two seven eight back now to my guest dr. Lear are you there yes and Darrell
Sims yes okay dr. Lear again you're saying that anything that would be
alien to the human body even even for years and years in place would
continue to show a rejection reaction of some sort
Absolutely.
There's just a realm of impossibility to think that the human body would not reject something as foreign to it.
Now, even our own tissues under certain circumstances are ejected.
And as you know, if you bleed into your tissues, even under the skin, you know what happens?
You get a terrible inflammatory reaction and a lot of pain.
That's right.
And this can happen in the mouth or in the eyeball or any place else.
So our own blood, once it's coagulated, acts as a foreign body.
So that's just an example of how sensitive the body is to things that don't belong there.
Well then, if you were to determine what factor in these implants utterly prevents any rejection, you would have made a gigantic medical leap forward, wouldn't you?
You bet your bippy, Art.
It would be a sensational advance in medical technology.
So then these should be not just taken out and examined the way you have here, but they should be studied by the larger medical community for obvious reasons.
That's correct.
That's why we certainly don't throw anything away.
We think that perhaps one of the reasons that this is going on is that the membrane, which covers the metallurgy A membrane?
That's quite remarkable.
for stopping the rejection reaction. A membrane? Yes, it's a very dark gray smooth membrane
that covers the objects and you can't cut through it with a surgical blade. You know,
an extraordinary piece of soft tissue. That's quite remarkable. That membrane, would you
imagine it to have been there from the moment of implantation or would you imagine it to
have in effect grown there? Well, you know, you can do a lot of guesswork, but it's really
quite unscientific to do that.
So if you're going to stay within the realms of science, you can put forth a theory and then take it into a lab and either prove it or disprove it.
Let's say that the implant is put in with this membrane around it.
uh... let's say possibly it could be a form of a gelatinous mass which then
congeals over the object and then uh... all these areas have no portal of entry
there's no scars no there's not even a pore out of place
How would it be possible to have something so strong in the form of a membrane that a scalpel would not go through it?
Well, I have some ideas about that, too.
I also wanted to mention that we have a couple of major drug companies that are looking at this with a lot of interest because of the simplicity.
And I can tell you and your audience right now what it's made of because we've already had the analysis done.
I'll bite.
Just very simply, only three things.
Three things, all which come from the body.
One is called a protein coagulum, which is just a fancy way of saying it's made from blood.
The proteins of blood.
Okay.
Then, if you picture that as you would like a bowl with yellow, clear yellow, we'll add a few things to it.
One is we'll add some dark brown granules, and this is an iron stain, which is a cousin to the iron stain that's in your red cells called hemoglobin.
And in this instance, it's called hemocitarin.
It's an oxygen-binding iron pigment.
All right.
And in the red cell, this is what happens.
It binds with oxygen, and the cell travels around your body, gives up its oxygen, takes on carbon dioxide, winds up back into the lung, and gives that up.
So it's a transport mechanism.
Well, because hemocitarin does a similar thing.
So it has hemocitarin in it.
And then there's some striae, or strands, to make it quite simple.
So you look at the jello with these brown granules in it, like raisins, and then we add something that looks like coconut, and that's the striae, or the strands, and the strands are made of keratin.
And I'm sure that every single female that's listening out there knows what keratin is.
They spend, you know, it's a billion dollar or more industry.
People taking care of their curtain because it's the outer layer of your skin.
Makes up a few layers to the corner of your eye, your fingernails, your hair.
Okay.
So those are the only three things that make up this membrane.
Now what gives it this tremendous tensile strength?
I didn't really understand this until I discussed this with a couple of folks that you probably know, David Adair and Colonel Corso.
Oh yes.
And talking to Phil Corso about these fibers where the molecules line up, tremendous tensile strength, and he pointed out a spider web is of course one of the most basic biological entities that have these super tenacity fibers.
So maybe we have something the same here.
We haven't gone to that extent of electron microscopy yet.
Alright, have you found the same fibrous material over other foreign bodies that you've removed over the years?
Never.
Never?
Never.
You know, a surgical blade is sharp.
And you can whittle a bone with it either inadvertently or on purpose.
But to not be able to cut through a piece of soft tissue is very strange indeed.
The general surgeon that I was working with is also a 30-somewhat year veteran of doing surgery all over the body.
And he looked at this thing and said, well, I don't get it.
but you know i don't know uh... took the specimens back to uh...
detected with that i want to tell you that portion of it but i would love to actually let's back up a
little bit and uh... have your tell us about
the people from whom these specimens team or as much as you're able to tell us
there Thank you.
Sure.
The first individual, a lady, was watching me on a program in 1991 on an access TV program.
After she watched the program she called me and set up an appointment to speak with me
concerning alleged alien abduction.
After I met with her I said, ìWhat would convince me that you were abducted?î She
said, ìWell, I have all these memories.
There were other witnesses, my two children, my husband, and so on.î And I said, ìOkay.î
I said, ìWell, I primarily deal in physical evidence.
Do you have anything?î She said, ìYes.î She showed me some x-rays of her feet and
three objects, one of them in a T formation, very unusual.
And I said, ìWell, it looks like you stepped on a pin.
It broke.
It migrated.
And she said, I thought you'd say that.
She was kind of waiting on me.
And then she handed me her medical report, which stated by her doctor that these objects were surgically installed due to previous surgery.
Well, that kind of sunk my boat.
Wait a minute.
That they had been surgically installed at some previous surgery.
That's correct.
And there was no history of previous surgery on her medical record, nor from the parents and others that I interviewed.
Okay.
So this got my attention, and I held this case for about three years, working with her.
And then I met a gentleman through my senior investigator, Dale Musser.
And the gentleman's name is Pat Parnello.
And we went down and interviewed him.
and he told me about an interesting object in his hand and so on and he had gotten an
x-ray for us as we had requested.
And after we looked at the x-ray for a while and talked to him for a while and listened
to his stories, he was a remarkable man, a rather amusing thing happened.
I pulled out another x-ray of the object that looked almost identical to his and it lay
at his feet.
He was a little concerned.
So that was a lady?
That was, yes.
Pat Parnello, the man who had an object in his hand as well.
And so you pulled out, you put the x-rays side by side and said, hey.
They were very similar and he was rather amused.
Well, what amazed me about the whole thing is neither of these people have any connection to each other whatsoever.
I'm not sure I'd use the word amused.
Well, I got stunned after a while.
What I found later, after the surgeries were over and after the people had given their cases, their histories, and everything was finished with that end of it, I was rather shocked whenever I started comparing all the data of these two people collectively.
Interestingly enough, Mr. Pat Parnello is almost obsessed with a remarkable intertwining of three Moebius strips.
A Moebius strip is just a one-inch wide piece of paper about a foot long.
If you glue it together in a circle like a child would, that's just a basic circle.
If you put a twist in it, you have a one-sided object.
Yes.
And it's remarkable.
When he puts three of them together and does a remarkable A presentation for about two hours showing you how to reverse polarities and all kinds of amazing things mathematically with these three intertwining Moebius strips.
Something, no doubt, knowledge acquired during an abduction.
That seems to be the deal.
Well what's amazing about that and something I have not revealed to either one of the two
people is that the movie describes three moebius strip type objects approximately 18 feet
tall inside the craft that appear to power it.
It gets even weirder.
There was a ball inside the clear glass like moebius strip figure eight type configurations.
It ran through there and each of them was about the size of a basketball.
In his case he describes when he was about five or six years old it's like he switched
on.
He didn't wake up from a bad dream he just literally switched on, goes outside.
He lives in a farming community at the time.
Walks out into a field that is freshly plowed.
Stands around to the lights flying around the air, the UFOs, and then a little ball
about the size of a basketball, glowing, comes down and lands in front of him in slow motion.
Makes a little puff of dust as it hits the ground and begins to spin slowly and he realizes
at this point I probably shouldn't be here.
He begins to run away and it feels like it exploded and blew the object into his hand.
I suspect that that probably is a screensaver memory.
To explain that very briefly to your audience, a screensaver to me is like a screensaver on your computer.
If you shake the computer, the screensaver will go off and you'll get back to the real memory of what's going on.
That's right.
Well, that's the way it is with hypnosis.
A lot of times people hypnotize these people and they're hypnotizing the screen memory.
and they think that's actually the memory and it isn't. It's something that's installed by the
beings themselves to keep you from getting to the event of what really they're up to, in my opinion.
But anyway, the reason I think that that is a screensaver memory in that part of the event
is simply because the fact that if the object had exploded there would be heat,
there would be an area of penetration, a...
Dr. Lear and the other surgeons found no place of portal of entry in any of the seven patients we found.
No entry point?
No portal of entry whatsoever.
If it had been blown up and gone into his hand there, there would have been heat.
Obviously.
Which would have caused, obviously, A reaction by the body in form of scar tissue and everything else.
Doctor, how do you explain that?
How could there be no point of entry for any of these objects no matter how they were inserted?
Well, let's call it, for lack of a better term, a scientific curiosity.
But again, as I said, I come from a scientific background so it's a little bit difficult
for me to ponder such things.
But when you listen to the story, and I've read most of the books...
This is your field of expertise.
If an object is within somebody, in their foot, wherever, there absolutely must be a point of entry.
If this object is a foreign object, alien or otherwise, there's got to be a place where it went in.
Well, to borrow a phrase from John Mack's book, Abduction, I guess we have to deal with alternate realities.
If we accept these as truth, then we are dealing with alternate realities.
And if there is such a thing as a being who can certainly materialize in your room at night, come through a wall, a ceiling, or solid objects, Then I would suppose that it's not really much of a feat to disassociate living matter.
Well, no offense at all to the people who tell the abduction stories, but they're stories and here we are dealing with physical evidence.
That's right.
That's why I said, you know, I have absolutely no scientific explanation and no one else has either.
Roger, maybe I can Toss in something here, not from the science end, but from the abductee's point of view of how some of this may take place.
One of the things that Roger found there through the pathologist in these people was, and especially in some of our other surgeries, was some of these people have scoop marks on their shins, back of their legs, different places.
These are literally a dermatological punch that's taken from the person.
And according to some of our witnesses in the abduction scenarios, some of these punches are taken out with a little device that makes a little noise, and it seems to have a light on it, and it cauterizes the wound almost instantly.
Now, what's interesting about that is, in some of the people that we've examined with these alleged implants that do have scoop marks, two things are very interesting about it.
The thing that was found inside the smooth little indention there, the scoop mark in the leg that was found, we found solar elastosis, which means basically that that area of the body, in that little tiny area, has been subjected to an enormous amount of ultraviolet radiation.
These people have been, the two ladies in particularly involved, were very light skinned.
They never go outside.
It just doesn't make any sense for that to be the case.
And what's really amazing to me about the whole thing is that Dr. Lear's findings and the pathologist's findings found that there was a keratinous material surrounding the biological covering surrounding the alleged metal implants that you see on your webpage there.
There was a biological covering around that that he could not cut through with a surgical scalpel.
So we are seeing, I am not used to looking at a scanning electron microscope photographs and it might be a moment to To ask, we're looking at metallic objects here?
You're looking at a metallic object that once was covered with a dark, dense, gray biological jacket.
It surrounded the entire T-shaped formation.
And the amazing thing about that is that the keratinous material that was found around that object, which primarily made up the bulk of the matter there, the biological jacket, that is the same material that's found on the outside of the skin.
Now think of it this way.
Just suppose you could take a scoop from someone and then could culture that for any length of time.
You could go in there and install an alleged implant with their own material.
It would answer the question of where nerve proprioceptors, that's the nerve cells that you have
on the outside of the body, how they got inside, deep inside the body, next to the bone.
But this is, you're describing a deliberate, a complex, extremely difficult process.
I think that is what is suggestive here, based on the stories and based on the pathological evidence.
Now did these two women both have, I'm sorry, the woman and the man, did they both have these scoop marks?
No, they don't show the scoop marks.
The lady has, but I didn't notice any on Pat.
You could take a very small sample from anyone, anywhere, and culture it and have this sort of thing.
You wouldn't have to have a scoop mark, per se, but many of the abductees, including myself, have them, and the only difference to me is I remember how I got mine when I was four years old.
Do we have the ability, Dr. Lear, to duplicate what has just been described?
In other words, could you take a foreign body and so code it With the results that we've just heard?
This would be in the form of an experiment, Bart.
That's true, I guess.
That's why these drug companies have such an interest in this, because if this membrane is, let's say, the protective bio-layer between foreign material and the body itself, You could technically duplicate it, wrap a heart or a kidney or anything else in it, and there wouldn't be any use for Imran or any other cyclosporine or any of these immunosuppressive drugs that are necessary to keep rejection.
Alright, but the point is, we haven't done it yet.
Not that we know of.
Alright, and that's a good place to hold it right there, not that we know of.
Coated with our own skin.
Well, that makes sense, doesn't it?
Uh, but in implants that have been taken out already?
That doesn't make sense.
I'm Art Bell.
It's time to get ready To realize just what I have found
I have just only half of what I am All I need to realize...
Now, here again is Art.
Once again, here I am.
What we are discussing this morning is hard physical evidence of alien implantation.
This is going to disturb many people.
If it disturbs you, tune out.
We have with us Dr. Roger Lear, who has removed any number of implants from human beings.
Implants coated with materials that could not possibly be there.
Coated with materials that Modern science has not yet figured out how to do.
Let me put it that way.
He is accompanied by Daryl Sims, who is a true pioneer in the investigation of the abduction phenomena.
His work over the more than 27 year span now has resulted in the recovery, surgically or otherwise, of 12 alleged alien implants, an alleged artifact from the Roswell crash, a wealth of remarkable knowledge, as well as innovative procedures for the study of this phenomenon.
Mr. Sims emphasizes the necessity of obtaining hard, physical evidence and the analyzation of that evidence by non-UFO-related scientific and medical professionals.
And that's, of course, where Dr. Lear comes in.
We'll get back to them and the evidence in a moment.
And yes, we do have evidence on our website.
If you'll go up there now and go down, simply scroll down to Dr. Roger Lear's name and click on the appropriate place, you will see photographs, electron scanning microscope photographs of implants removed.
We are about to discuss these photographs.
It is rare, hard, physical, medical evidence of alien implantation.
If you dare, go take a look at www.artbell.com.
All right, back to my guest now, Daryl Sims in Houston, Texas, and Dr. Roger Lear in Central California.
Gentlemen, welcome back.
So we have an implant that cannot be cut into because of the fibrous material around it, which has been described.
We have actually had implants that have, as the scalpel approached, moved.
We heard that from from Whitley Streber.
And now we've got photographs on the website and I'm not used to looking at these type of photographs.
So Dr. Lear, have you been able to see the lineup that we've got on the website?
Yes, and I'd like to start with the second picture that you have.
Okay.
The one that looks like a long rod that's divided into several sections.
All right.
Is that the one at the top?
It's the one at the bottom.
It's the second picture.
All right.
All the way at the bottom.
All right.
Then there's three smaller pictures underneath.
All right.
So I've gone all the way to the bottom, and I see it says A, B, and C. That's correct.
And if you look at the long route, you'll see it looks like it's divided.
All right.
What are we... Tell us what we're seeing.
Okay.
I'm going to give you sort of a tour through these photographs.
And I'll start out by pointing out some of the salient features.
Now, if we look at the entire rod, we'll see some vertical lines.
These are not part of the rod itself.
This has been placed here by the photographic mechanism, so to speak, that took the picture.
And when it did this, then it synthetically divided this This rod up into several sections.
I understand.
So those are simply separators for portions of the photograph?
That's correct.
I understand.
And then, unfortunately, we can't read the writing when it tells about the magnification, which let's suffice it to say goes from about 40,000 to 100,000 times magnification.
All right.
So the three pictures that are underneath are the higher magnifications.
of section ABC of the above rod.
Right.
So let's take the above rod first.
First of all, what is this?
Yes.
This is the entire horizontal portion of the T-shaped object.
If we just picture a T, mentally, this is the horizontal piece, the cross piece, so to speak.
This is the metallic portion with the membrane that I described previously removed.
And the way we're able to remove this is when Darryl took these back to Houston, he and a chemist that was with him found that if they dried this, the membrane became brittle and they could scrape it off.
So this is the object.
So then only when the membrane was moist or in its environment was it invulnerable to even a scalpel?
That's correct.
And in order to preserve the integrity, now a portion of the story, the whole story is just too long to tell on the air.
But I had to do some research prior to doing any of the surgeries because I read in some books that people tried this before and they didn't come up with anything.
So I wanted to make sure that if I found something and removed it, it would at least stay there.
Of course.
So I decided to put this in a biological solution.
And the best biological solution I could think of was blood serum.
So we withdrew blood from the individual, it was their own liquid tissue, and we added a preservative and an anticoagulant, and that became then the liquid preservative to put the object in.
Alright, in the photographs, aside from the implant or the object itself, there are little oblong and round things that we observe.
What are we seeing there?
Okay, let's look at the object itself.
Let's look at the, as you look at the screen, the left end.
You'll see that it's rounded and on the bottom there's a little protuberance.
Yes.
And Art, have you ever gone fishing?
I have.
And if you look at a fish hook, what does it look like?
It kind of looks like this.
That's right.
So this could be then an anchoring device to Make sure this object didn't move around the tissue.
This looks like a barb.
Yeah, you sure wouldn't pull that out without disturbing an awful lot of tissue.
That's right, and that's what the people that looked at this said.
Now, if we looked at the extreme opposite end, we all know what a round looks like, what a bullet looks like.
Yes, sir.
This is level and flat and sort of rounded when you look at it from other perspectives.
And we can see that there's a definite difference between this end, the right end, and the left end.
Significant, yes.
And if we look at the whole rod, we can see that it's structured.
It doesn't take any imagination to see that it's structured.
And I'll point out another very interesting salient feature, and that's in the B section, which is the second section, right in the middle.
Right.
On the bottom, there is what's called a divot, or a dell, a depression.
Yes.
And when you look at the picture of the first rod that you have up on the webpage, you'll see that this just happens to match the right end of that rod because that's where the vertical section fit.
Now, the photograph at the top, is this of a completely different... No, this is the same one.
Same one vertical section.
Oh, I see.
All right, I've got you.
Okay, now the other features, the little holes and so on, are openings where the biological tissue or membrane has anchored itself into the middle.
And in the C-section, there's a large grayish-white piece of it that's still clinging there, kind of like right in the middle.
Okay, now if we go down to the three small pictures, their representations are big blow-ups of each one of these other sections.
And they in themselves are quite interesting because you can see that there is a difference to start out with between all three.
So the A section, the B section, and the C section was completely different.
Now, I'm going to tell you what we have here, elementally.
In the T1 section, which is this, the major elements are aluminum, calcium, and iron.
And the minor elements are barium, copper, magnesium, manganese, sodium, nickel, lead, and zinc.
Good Lord!
These elements, all beside the iron, comprise an outer layer.
So the entire outer layer that you're seeing of the long rod is composed of the elements that I mentioned.
And that's just like a shell.
Now, what's inside the shell?
The shell contains the iron.
And the iron is in the form of iron carbide.
And according to a report here that we have from New Mexico Tech, The iron, I'll read this to you, the hardness of this core material is very high in the neighborhood of the highest carbon tool steel.
And this iron core is also magnetic.
Magnetic?
Magnetic.
Now, let's go up to your higher picture, your first picture.
The first one up on top, okay.
Right, and again, the long section of it.
And you can see again, it's been synthetically divided into three portions.
Yes, sir.
And the portion on the right has a configuration, and if you could just picture how nicely this configuration fits in that little dell on the undersurface of the T1 sample, which is the one I just described.
I want to tell you how well these fit.
When it was in its, let's call it, in its living or original condition, when I removed it, You could not move one rod upon the other.
In other words, you could not take and hold the horizontal portion and move the vertical portion by any means, any shape, any hatches, wouldn't move.
So, not surprisingly, when we found out that the, we found out before this test was done, that we had a magnetic field involved, Because when the rods were finally separated, they didn't want to stay away from each other.
If you put them in the little container that we had them in, one would just rush toward the other and it would cling to it.
Oh my God.
Now, this... Darrell, may I quickly ask Darrell, from whom were these taken?
These particular ones are the... I've just removed the three objects from the lady's foot.
From the lady's foot?
Yes, and it is...
It had the same biological covering as did the man.
The biological coverings in both cases, completely unknown to each other, are identical.
Alright, and again, Doctor, you said two objects were mutually attracted to each other, even outside the body, in a solution of blood, right?
No, this was after the membrane was removed and the two pieces separated.
And they would still mutually attract?
They would go right to each other.
Now, interestingly, the first rod that you saw had a hard iron or ferrite carbon core that was magnetic.
This portion here contains a carbon core, which is magneto-conductive.
Now, in Section C, you'll see what looks like something that's sort of hanging onto it.
Yes.
Hanging onto the bottom.
That's a portion of the membrane.
That's living tissue, once living tissue.
How much, you said that surrounding these objects, there was a virtual neural network that built up, or, I'm not a doctor, you've got to help me out here, but that there was a... Yeah, there is little nerve end organs called proprioceptors.
Those are the little things, Art, that if you put your finger on a hot stove, your hand jerks away, or your finger jerks away before you fry your finger.
Of course.
And also, it jerks away before you feel pain.
Right.
Those are done with proprioceptors, and we have them in the finger pads, we have them in the bottom of the feet, we have them in the lips.
Also, if you grab a glass with your hand, why doesn't your hand just crush the glass?
Or why don't you just simply drop it on the floor?
proprioceptors little tiny sense organs and organs of nerves
Usually located in those areas that I indicated, but remember art these objects were found
Virtually next to bone they don't belong there and the tissue surrounding these objects were just loaded with them
All right, and and to what purpose?
Would you imagine or guess or or theorize that there would have been such a build-up to what to what end for the
object?
I would say that somehow, for whatever the reason, connected to central nerve supply.
Now, people say, well, why the toe?
Why the finger?
Why the ear?
Why here?
Why there?
But, you know, anywhere in the body, if you get into a main track of nerves, like SP owns the track and Amtrak rents it from them.
You go right to the brain.
You follow that track, you go to the brain.
Now, nerves run on neural energy.
It's a form of electrical impulse.
And UCLA has taken this and recently made a converter Which will accept the neuro-impulse and turn that impulse into electrical energy for driving little servo motors.
So you can make an artificial device, finger or hand, and actually move the little tiny motors.
So you make a wonderful device that way.
Right.
But the other salient interesting features here, and when I get to this, Art, I know you'll just go bananas over it.
In the first section, A, There's a small area where it narrows down.
It's called a neck.
That's right.
And then if we go to the three pictures underneath here, we'll see that picture B looks again totally different from A and C. And if you look at this, I think that most of us will, once I tell you, you recognize it because it's a blow-up of crystals.
Crystals?
And so the neck of this object has silicate crystals that go all the way around it.
Oh my!
And if you go to look at the first picture, the first little picture, you will see several round objects, little balls.
And these are gold-copper colored balls.
We don't know what they are because they've never I'll just save your question for a second because I want to kind of sum up something that'll really give you a new perspective on this.
Right ahead.
What do we have?
We have a rod which has a solid, a very hard iron magnetic core.
Uh, we have, uh, butted up against a rod which has a carbon core, which is magneto-conductive, and then a circle of silicate crystals.
Now, are you getting any kind of a picture out of this?
Because, uh, years and years ago, and I'm, I'm old enough to remember where you could get a little thing, and, uh, called a crystal, and, uh, a battery, and a coil, and a pair of earphones, and make a crystal radio, and you got a crystal set.
Oh, of course you do.
Oh my God.
Now we're talking about something that's basic materials, basic elemental materials, but with great potential.
For reception?
Reception or even transmission.
Transmission, right.
Good Lord.
Now we have an electrical engineer that's working with us in Florida.
His name is Robert Beckwith.
And he's come up with some principles of possibilities of how these devices can work, and a totally different sort of an electromagnetic spectrum using neutrinos.
And neutrino energy, he said, can be even used to produce a visible stimuli spectrum.
Which would be totally different than our light electromagnetic waves that we have.
Well, this is just stunning.
I've got a fax here which says, Art, looking at these objects, I don't understand why in the hell evidence like this is not on the front page news in every morning paper.
You'd think all the news media would rush to report this.
Do your guests have anything to relate to us as to the reaction of the media reps that they've notified?
I mean, this has got to be incredible fodder.
We'll deal with this when we get back.
We're at the bottom of the hour, and I, too, I cannot possibly understand how detailed, specific, physical evidence of this kind can possibly be ignored.
Anyway, on this program, it's not.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
You're listening to a rebroadcast of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
Well, I guess I tend to forget I am the media.
But again, for the sake of argument, Hi Art, looking at these objects, I just do not understand why in the hell evidence like this isn't on the front page news in every morning paper.
You'd think all the media would rush to report this.
Do your guests have anything to relate to us?
As to the reaction of the media reps that they may have notified, now aside from my part in the media, obviously you must have taken this to some other media in the country, and this is for either one of you.
what reaction you get well i think i can respond that for both of us
we have uh... been approached by uh... uh... something is rather interesting
uh...
very recently uh... we've been approached by uh...
a uh... producer and for t.v. program uh...
specialized programming and he's uh... offered us an opportunity
to co-produce uh... up to four programs
involving hard evidence of the abduction phenomena.
And this is co-produced so we have creative control and literary control You're going to need it, based on some recent programs that have gone all the wrong way.
No, we're not going to allow any debunkers on there.
We're going to present the evidence as is.
You wouldn't bring a debunker on if you had a heart surgeon on there describing some remarkable find.
That's not the way business is done in the medical or scientific field.
So that's an interesting approach to programming there.
We were also approached, in fact I just got back from Los Angeles, the major movie producer flew me out to meet with Dr. Lear and wanted to make us an offer on a number of different things.
One was a full feature motion picture based on the efforts that I've done for the last 27 years and the efforts of Dr. Roger Lear.
And his efforts, while we combine, and our entire story.
Maybe that's the approach you have to take these days.
Until it hits the silver screen, it's not a real story.
That seems to be the case, and we'll just continue anyway with our scientific efforts, peer reviewing it and keeping things under wraps until they're actually brought out and tested by a scientist and agreed upon.
Let me do, Darryl, what you wouldn't do, and let me try it on Dr. Lear, and let me be a debunker for a second, and let me say, come on Dr. Lear, this is just some little metallic piece that got embedded in somebody's foot, and you're foisting it off as some sort of alien implant.
That's what a debunker would say.
Yes, they would, and have.
When Daryl and I were in England, Last year, this is the kind of programming that they have.
We were asked to be on a number of different programs, and this is the kind of question you get.
Of course, you simply answer it by reiterating the scientific data, and you could say, well sure, if this was something that somebody merely stepped on, the size that it is, don't you think, sir, that it would leave a fairly decent wound?
That's a good start.
And also, if you go through the metallurgical analysis that we have arrived on so far from NAME Laboratories, such as Los Alamos and New Mexico Tech, who state these objects, the closest thing they can find is meteorite samples.
Do you think this person stepped on a meteorite?
That's a really good start.
And of course there's the membrane that can't be cut with a scalpel.
Exactly.
And an area where there is no rejection, no inflammatory reaction.
And we took very painstaking care to document.
We have all the surgeries on video.
Neural connections?
Yes, there's neural connections.
You know, just the whole, you have to look at the entire thing.
Alright, well this is, to me, New York Times, Los Angeles Times, Chicago Sun-Times type news, but I guess you've got to go to the silver screen first and then they'll begin to take a look at it.
It's astounding to me that the science editors of those newspapers wouldn't be all over you.
Well, now that you mention that, we took a shot on July 4th of last year at the Roswell Celebration to take a very well-qualified, brave scientist out of his scientific purview, which was the University of California at San Diego.
Dragged them to Roswell with the hundreds of media that were there to simply tell the folks that we were investigating a piece of material that possibly came from the Roswell crash site that had at least five extraterrestrial isotopes on it.
Now, AP, either on purpose or otherwise, printed the wrong information.
tried to uh... verify the the gentleman employment at the university of
california san diego and i think that the wrong name all the wrong name all i
had that yes i had that a p story where they tried to verify uh...
uh... his uh...
academic credentials and uh... indeed it came back uh... no such person yeah we
don't mind saying that it because it's been out of the bed It's been everywhere.
It's Dr. Russell Vernon Clark.
Now his name is not Dr. Russell Vernon Clark.
It's Dr. Russell Vernon Clark.
So if you looked up Clark, you would not find any Clark.
Because it's Vernon Clark, and he's been there for numerous years.
Hyphenated?
Vernon Clark?
Yes, Vernon Clark.
All one word.
Okay.
And he's in the Environmental Services Department.
Alright, now a question for Daryl.
Daryl, how long had this person that we know of had the implant before you discovered it and then subsequently removed it?
Very good question.
The first knowledge of the alleged implant came to this lady on 11-4-86.
What happened was she went to a doctor for a different reason.
She had a splinter in her foot and she went in and had him remove it.
Went back the next day because there was swelling naturally and inflammatory response.
He, of course, said, like most doctors would do, x-rayed the foot and said, oh, when did you have the surgery?
And she says, what surgery is that?
And he says, the surgery on your feet.
He said, for those surgical clips in there.
She said, I've never had a surgery in my life.
He said, well, obviously you have.
All right.
Take me back now.
There had to have been, what claim did she make with regard to abduction?
Okay, and this is where she comes in to me and says, I said, well, I want to know what your story is now that I have the medical evidence on you.
She says, well, first of all, this lady has no interest in UFOs, not then and not now.
She has no interest in pursuing this other than from our scientific efforts and that's all.
On October 1969, this lady went camping with her husband and her family.
Strange lights had been seen during the evening that night.
About midnight, she went to bed with her two children in the tent, and her husband built a huge fire with some green logs because he wanted it to burn for hours because he's fishing all night long, doing some trotline fishing.
About 1 a.m., the gentleman comes running back, terror stricken, and screamed for his wife to throw the children and everything into the car as fast as she could.
She's doing this and they finally get in the car.
He races off and just blows gravel and rocks everywhere.
She inquired what was the problem and he said there were some strange beings down beneath the bridge where he was fishing.
And then all of a sudden there were some lights coming behind the car and she thought, well there's some kind of a semi, but what would a semi be doing out here at one o'clock in the morning on a dirt road out here by Conroe, Texas?
Right.
And she noticed that the lights were a little bit too high off the ground to be a semi.
And the problem is there's about 20 feet apart between them and there's three of them.
And then as it gets closer she can see a huge disc.
And I mean they get so scared they absolutely freak completely out.
Of course.
They go across this big metal bridge and the next thing they know they're coming back across the metal bridge.
They pull up next to their campground.
Missing time.
They look at the campfire and it's already burnt down.
Oh my.
So lots of missing time.
Very much so.
What's amazing about the story is a few years later, this lady's mother goes into the hospital for a heart surgery.
For some reason, the doctor decides to x-ray her from head to toe.
And guess what he found in her feet?
Just like her daughter.
And the doctor asked her the same question.
Now the mother here is a skeptic.
The doctor looks at her and says, when did you have that surgery?
She's heard this one before.
She says, I've never had a surgery.
He says, obviously you have.
Where did you get those surgical clips in your feet?
We also think that the brother has these as well, but he will not submit to any kind of
surgery or x-ray or anything.
He is absolutely terrified by the whole event.
So it would have been the whole family?
The abduction seems to be familial.
It runs in a family.
That seems to be the case in many situations.
We have some incredible stats concerning that.
Alright, well now this goes way out on a limb, but with the neural connections to this device, if one is to imagine the device is a receiver, and possibly a transmitter, What could a person imagine that is being received and transmitted, and for what purpose?
I mean, this is all conjecture, obviously, but it's impossible not to conjecture.
That's correct.
In science, you can call it theory, but if you want to stay again with strict science, Put forth the theory and take it in the laboratory and either prove it or disprove it.
Right.
So we can say these are the popular theories.
If it's connected to a neural supply and it's doing something, and we have a good indication that it was because Pat, which was the second surgery with the object in the back of the hand, we used a gauss meter.
And when the gauss meter was placed over the back of the hand, the scale just pegged.
We thought, well, there must be a lot of electromagnetic influence in the operating room here, so it was a Saturday.
We'll just prep this guy all over again.
Let's take him out in the parking lot.
There wasn't a car.
There wasn't any lights on.
It was Saturday.
Everybody was gone.
We put the gauss meter over the back of his hand again, and it did the same thing.
We went ahead and performed the procedure.
And then used the gas meter again, post-operatively, and it did nothing.
And we put it up next.
So in other words, once its human contact was gone, the energy was gone.
That's correct.
Now you're moving into an area that I know a little bit about, and I can tell you that you should have had somebody there, like myself, with a spectrum analyzer.
Looking for any sort of specific range of frequencies that there was an emission of RF?
We kind of looked at everything from scalar waves to all sorts of electromagnetic spectral sources, but first of all, this was our first attempt doing it on a shoestring, paying for the whole thing out of our own pocket.
You had to start someplace.
And so, if we're able to continue financially with the FIRST, Fund for Interactive Research in Space Technology, non-profit organization, getting some funding, we will be able to do these kind of things.
Now, you know that people say what they want about Bob Bigelow, but he was very kind and generous to us, and we had to make an appearance before the board of the National Institute of Discovery Science And people were there, which were very high caliber scientists, and to listen to the information, the part of which I just presented to you tonight, on that basis, they decided to fund the second set of surgeries.
Without Bob Bigelow, a lot of very important research in all of these areas would have gone undone.
Archer, absolutely right.
It's very true.
You know, the money's got to come from someplace.
UFO researchers can't even stick together for a common cause.
There should be absolutely no such thing as personal opinion or enemy.
Everybody should put the buck or the ten bucks out there to help each other.
And this has been discussed lately.
We could really accomplish tremendous, tremendous things on a civilian level without having to lean towards government for one iota of knowledge.
As I discussed with you earlier today, I just finished my book, The Aliens and the Scalpel, and it's got the whole story of this in there.
Oh, yes, let me give you an opportunity to plug your book, The Aliens and the Scalpel.
That's correct.
And where is this book going to be available and when?
Well, it's in the form of an unpublished manuscript.
We just finished it here a couple of weeks ago.
And I'm ready and willing for a publisher to take it over.
I just happen to know one.
Well, I just happen to be in need.
Well, I think I can no doubt help you out.
This is remarkable stuff.
Again, moving back to the possible purpose, if you imagine this could receive and transmit and is connected to the neural network, What would be possible?
Oh yes, we sort of got away from the question.
The question got away from us.
The more popular theories are, one, it could be a transponder, a locator device, which I really don't give much credence to.
The other is that we know that abductees, through numerous books and collections of studies on these individuals, seem to have some sort of a unusual, spontaneous behaviors, compulsive behaviors, you
might call them.
Let's say a lady will get up in the middle of the night, put her family in the car, and
decide to drive down a lonely road somewhere where she may or may not have some kind of
an experience.
So perhaps they have something to do with behavior controls.
On the other hand, there is a theory that sounds a little more plausible to me.
I think there may be devices for looking at the detection of certain chemicals in the body, either as pollutants or perhaps hormone levels or even some genetic changes.
And very similar to what we do with astronauts.
You probably, I don't have to tell you, when they go up, They are not only wearing their harness, but they're implanted because Mission Control, the medical officer, will look and see what the pH, the content of oxygen and carbon dioxide of the blood is.
So you can't get this with external sensors.
You have to get it internally.
So if these are devices that function by using nervous energy to either transmit or receive, They may be transmitting data on how we react with our environment.
I was about to ask about that.
Environmental monitoring?
Yes.
Pollutant levels.
We have horrid things going wrong now with dolphins beaching themselves, sperm whales beaching themselves in tremendous numbers for utterly unknown reasons.
But a lot of people think it may have something to do with the environment.
And you can go into a world of speculation from there about what they might, or I say they, might or might not do if we get to a critical point with our environment.
That's very possible, you see, and it's much more plausible than the other theories that have been put forth so far.
I mean, it has some semblance of sense that if we were being guided, guarded, or whatever the term you wanted to use by other beings from elsewhere, Well, these might be the things that they might be interested in.
And as you said, you mentioned the environment.
Well, I think that we've cracked the environmental envelope in so many places.
There's so many things going on that all both organic and inorganic changes are taking place in front of our eyes at a rapidly increasing rate.
One of the good things, as I see it, and of course I'm in the medical business so my main thing is I deal with people, is the children that are born today are, I would say, quite advanced.
They're a new child.
They are a new human.
They're not the same as the babies that were born 30 years ago.
I have a 7-year-old daughter and yet my oldest is 30.
It was quite a difference, and it's not just me.
It's every single patient I talk to that has a young child.
You have no idea how many people I've been hearing that from recently.
Yes, and if I could get the book that I just finished, I'm going to sit down with statistics from the American Pediatric Association, and I'm going to really blow people away because they don't have any idea of the child that they are raising.
I mean, these kids not only have the ability to learn rapidly, Younger.
They do everything.
The age of gait when they're walking.
Age of speech.
Many are calling them the Millennium Children.
That's, I guess, as good a name as any.
All right, listen, the two of you.
I've got another hour available, and we might divide it between continuing with this discussion and taking a few calls.
Are you up for it?
Of course.
Sure.
All right, gentlemen, hold on.
Dr. Lear, Daryl Sims, I'm Art Bell.
All this is coast to coast air.
I'm going to be doing some more of this.
This is an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM weather.
This is an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM from the Kingdom of Nye.
Well, if this doesn't do it for you, it can't be done.
This is hard physical evidence.
Good morning, everybody.
If you haven't been to the website yet, I suggest you go on up there and take a look.
Electron scanning microscope photographs of implants.
of a specific implant, almost beyond question.
It's at www.artbell.com.
We'll get back to Dr. Roger Lear, the man who removed these, and Daryl Sims, an investigator of abduction phenomena and a researcher of hard evidence.
All right, once again, Dr. Roger Lear and Darryl Sims.
Darryl's in Houston, Dr. Sims in a very damp central California.
Gentlemen, several faxed questions first.
From Michelle in Lamont, Illinois, please ask the doctor if the patient suffered any ill effects after having these implants removed, either physical or mental.
That's a very interesting question.
One of the things that we do as part of the program for removal is to have the individual examined both physically and psychologically prior to undergoing any surgery.
Of course.
We want to make sure that they're both of sound mind and body, number one, and then number two, we want to monitor very carefully any physiological or psychological changes that occur after the surgery.
The only differences that we found either pre or post-operatively was in the first two cases, for example, neither patient had any discomfort until one week prior to the surgery.
This was determined after examination individually by our PhD psychologist.
Now, you could call that coincidence or whatever, but we believe that one had been in the body for some 41 years.
So that's quite some time to not provoke any kind of discomfort and then have it a week
before the surgery with the lady is again another one of those strange things.
Now following the surgery, one had undergone some hypnoanesthesia which Darryl had done
and we did this for several reasons, one was because she had a little bit of apprehension
about the surgery.
We were doing it under a local.
That's natural?
Natural.
And so, in doing so, we tried to alter both the healing time and the amount of medication that she would take post-operatively, and it was just about 2 to 1.
She healed twice as fast and took half the amount of what the other surgical patient did, which goes to show you that things can be controlled nicely without drugs.
After the surgery for the first two patients, like Darryl told you before, the lady really doesn't want anything more to do with UFO phenomena.
Both patients examined psychologically post-operatively after the surgery.
Told the psychologist, again, this is another one of those strange things, in almost exact language, they had a newfound feeling of freedom.
And I asked her, I said, well, what does that mean?
Freedom.
I don't know.
Well, I know what freedom means.
A newfound feeling of freedom.
Obviously, they felt in some way controlled previously.
Freedom means freedom from control.
I asked her, I said, is this merely the relief of apprehension?
Oh, I've been thinking about I've got to have a surgery done and now it's over so I can breathe freely, everything's fine.
And she says, no, absolutely not.
Now, Pat went on a few months later and stated that some of the psychic ability that he believed that he had Prior to the surgery, he had lost.
But in following him up for a further period of time, it came back.
It even came back, and somewhere recently down the line here, he thought that he might have something back in his body again.
Uh-huh.
Here's somebody who says, the amazing aspect of this phenomenon is not merely that it's happening.
But the reluctance of science and the media to admit that it exists at all, the phenomenon of denial, is truly amazing.
I agree with that 100%, and part of it may be purposeful and the other part by ignorance.
If medical specialists, for example, let's take the biggest group of them, psychologists.
If psychologists are not even aware that this phenomenon exists or the possibility of it exists
or again borrowing from Dr. Mack, suppose this is some undiscovered new kind of mental
dissociative disorder that's now gone worldwide.
I mean, wouldn't you at least as a psychologist be interested in that without going on even
to define what it is?
But they don't have a clue.
I would be consumed by it.
Yeah.
Alright, here's another one, Art.
We are looking at something that approaches the world of nanotechnology.
It's breathtaking.
We have something here that may be a transmitter and receiver.
From his description, it could be interacting with our neural network.
Now, isn't that... aren't we getting very close to the world of nanotechnology with what you have described and shown us?
Well, from what I read, and I'm certainly not privy to any information that isn't available to anyone else, it seems like we are working on nanotechnology.
But, you know, one of the things that we had to decide when we do this, we knew we were going to get asked, how do we know that this isn't just some black budget governmental project?
And you've gleaned a little bit of it by mistake.
All right.
One of the ways that we thought of eliminating this was, what was the state of black budget technology 50 years ago?
So if we could do aging, metallurgical aging on the specimens, and got over 50 years, let's see, even with the inaccuracy of carbon dating, but they're much more sophisticated techniques today, and you go back beyond 50 years, I much doubt Whether this technology could have been black budgeted 50 years ago.
That's an awfully good point.
Doctor, I've got to read you a fairly lengthy facts and get your reaction.
Art, in 1989, an MRI was done upon my head.
This was the beginning of my conscious journey into implants.
Upon opening the sealed envelope containing my MRI results, a small notepad piece of paper dropped to the floor.
It stated that next to my hypothalamus, touching it in fact, was a pellet the size of a .22 caliber bullet.
It was considered an anomaly as it was made of an unknown material.
They didn't know how it got there.
It was of non-specific origin.
They also found what they called an acoustic necroma, a benign tumor in the inner ear that has the substance and look of jello.
When I arrived at the Chicago Neurological, uh, Neurosurgical, rather, Center in Chicago, a CAT scan was done the day I was to receive a non-invasive therapy to kill this so-called benign tumor.
The picture was astounding!
My inner ear appeared to be filled with this jello-type substance with a, in capitals, fish-hook apparatus coming from the jell-at-this substance that took up the entire inner ear.
The fishhook, without any support, came straight out to my brain stem and had attached itself to the brain stem.
The doctor exclaimed how that could not possibly be an acoustic neuroma, but what the hell else could it be?
Also in the 70s, a definite implant was removed from my outer left knee.
A local was done, and I watched.
There was an eye-shaped indentation That when the doctor cut it open, it slid out like a drawer.
It was shaped somewhat like a tooth, and consisted of a grey-white gelatinous material that had a dark object in the middle.
That was the last time he'd consent to seeing me.
Also, a friend of mine had some of Tesla's actual equipment.
When he turned on one of the devices, I stopped breathing.
He apologized, stated that he had to know I was not lying to him, He said the object touching my hypothalamus, I believe it is, was a transmitter-receiver.
He had broken the transmission, and the implant kept me alive.
I can't give you his name.
He's too high up in a certain arena of life.
Now, what does that sound like to you, Doctor?
Sounds like a complex situation, and I would love to see the material.
Number one, if you went all the way back to the beginning where she says she has a bullet-sized object touching the hypothalamus, that in itself would certainly be indicative of something interesting.
Doctor, how many of these things, like the one we see on my website right now, do you think have been removed by surgeons nationwide, worldwide, without a thought, and just tossed into a garbage can?
Guilty as charged.
I probably did it myself.
You know, when you're removing a foreign object from the person, it's usually bothering them and you want to be a good guy and you want to get it out for the patient.
So you get it out and by law you have to send it in for pathology and the pathologist looks at it and tells you what you want to know.
What do you want to know?
You want to know whether it's benign or malignant.
That's right.
Then what do you do with it?
If it's benign, you throw it away.
That's right, you go out and have a drink and celebrate life.
Yeah, and the patient says, you tell the patient, hey, it's out, you're fine.
Come back in a week and we'll make your stitches out.
And that's the end of it.
Martin, I'd like to comment a little bit for the person who wrote the facts to you.
It might be of interest to them and they might be very interested in contacting us for some additional information.
In the back of a man's neck, one of our abductees at our support group here in Houston, He brought me an x-ray, and it shows a 22-size pellet in the back of his neck, lodged next to his spine.
Of course, the doctor said, when did you get shot?
He said, I beg your pardon?
Yes.
When did you get shot?
He said, there's a bullet, it looks like, next to your spine.
He said, I've never been shot in my life.
There's no point of entry or anything.
This is rather interesting.
After we talked about it for a while, he talked to me about the possibility of getting it removed.
He brought back another x-ray, and it's gone.
It's gone?
Amazingly enough, today, two individuals on the internet contacted me about an event that occurred to them some time ago, and they described a wire-like device very similar to what this gentleman is describing in his head.
Both of them had them in their legs.
And what's rather amazing about it is they put some hemostats on the... One of them was sticking out of the exterior after the abduction, and he put a hemostat on it and a little pair of pliers, surgical pliers, and pulled, and they could not get the object out.
In fact, the object buried up inside them, and they've not been able to get it out.
Yeah, here we go again now.
Doctor, are you able to tell the story again, briefly, for those who did not hear it, of My friend Whitley Streber and his ear.
Yes, I can.
There's been some confusion there.
I am not the surgeon.
Who did the surgery?
A confusion came when Whitley Streber was a guest at the second set of surgeries that we did on May 18, 1996.
the 18th of 1996, Whitley was going to have surgery by me on that day and because he changed
his mind it wasn't done.
What he wanted to do was have some testing done first, and then he wanted to go back to Texas.
But anyway, the story, as Whitley tells it, is that the surgeon who went after the object in the ear made an incision, and as he approached it to remove it, the object moved.
Moved out of the way of the skull?
Moved out of the way.
And that's as much as I know about it.
He was able to get some of it out, and he said it was kind of a gelatinous, fibrous sort of material.
But that object, if it's there, is most probably still in Whitley's ear.
All right.
Here's another one for either one or both of you.
How many patients, Whitley, for example, said that there have been times when his ear would become almost red hot?
When it would literally get hot, as if something was occurring, obviously, within.
Has there been anything like that associated with any of the other implants?
It definitely is reported, and I think it's real important to state here, Art, that out of the several thousand abductees that I've worked with, I have found only a small amount of these people that probably have any kind of an implant.
It does not seem to be rampant in that sense of the word at all.
A very small percentage of people seem to have what possibly may be an implant.
And I realistically wouldn't have any idea what an alien implant would be because I just don't know what that would be.
What we certainly have found is alien to the human organism.
In answer to a question about people getting hot, a lady called the other day and told me a remarkable story.
Basically, she was facing abduction.
She said, I have no idea why this happened.
She said, I'd lose my job if anyone even found out.
She says, but as well, you realize that the business I'm in is in physical evidence, and as Director of Physical Evidence, I'm interested in that with your case.
The lady relayed something absolutely astounding that I'm waiting on right now.
She says, well, I had a car accident not long ago, and the surgeons were working on my back area, and they checked my spine.
They opened it up, and they found a scar tissue, and they checked it, and they kept wondering, well, for how far does this thing go?
And it said it's about the width of your finger, and it goes all the way up from my tailbone all the way to my cervical vertebrae, and there's no point of incision.
She said, now what's really amazing about that is the place where I work has got over 52 reports of abduction in the hospital in the Terminal Ward.
One might say that that is just the result of... In the Terminal Ward?
In the Terminal Ward.
These are 52 reports, she says, that are available on public federal paper.
And I said, of course you realize what that means when you tell me that.
And I said, you're going to have to prove it.
And she says, well, it's coming to you.
All right, gentlemen, hold on right there.
We are all of a sudden at the bottom of the hour.
I have no idea how it occurs so quickly.
Anybody wanting a copy of this program?
It is a three hour program, obviously.
And you can get it by calling 1-800-917-4278.
1-800-917-4278. I'm getting a lot of requests for that already. 1-800-917-4278. A three-hour program on implants.
Probably, no, I suspect the best ever done on the subject.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast Air.
Who lives in a desert town, and too much sunlight for his farm?
Then please don't mind the darkness, and love the filter.
This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius.
From the Kingdom of Nigh, Coast to Coast AM continues with Art Bell.
I'm curious.
There are UFO conferences all over the country.
They give lectures, they have guests.
I would think that from those who show up with videos from Mexico, those people who show up with their various stories of this and that, that the two of you would be absolutely invited every time because of the hard evidence aspect of the work you have done.
Where do you fit in?
Well, actually, we fit in quite well.
Most of our work for the last two years has been out of country.
We've been invited to every major country, I guess, from Japan for the opening of the Haikui Japanese Museum of UFO and Space Technology.
We got back from Israel four times in England, Brazil twice, We're going to Chile twice.
We've already got two invitations for that.
One for Mexico.
What about the good old USA?
You've been everywhere else.
No, that's true.
Interestingly enough, the demand for us is greater overseas than it is anywhere else.
The people just are absolutely wild about the discoveries and about the work we're doing.
And we do have some conferences that we do here in the U.S.
I'll be flying out on the 14th to do four different conferences with Roger in Southern California.
But most of our conferences are out of country and for a reason, because we're trying to
collate data out of country as well to make sure that our claims here are consistent in
other places to see if there's any collation there.
The other reason for that, Art, is that we've been promised a lot of things over the last
year or two and people asked us, please don't give things away.
Who do you listen to?
Because neither Darrell or myself are certainly experts in Hollywood.
There are some bad people here and it's hard to tell whose advice to listen to.
It's true.
One thing we were told, don't give your stuff up at conferences, stay away from the little bad television shows.
We have done some fairly decent major television work, and most of the time we're in a position where we have an agent who is a producer here in Hollywood.
And so we can kind of pick and choose, and I think we've done better on most.
It doesn't mean that we don't get stung, because as you were a witness to the Lake County thing, which you didn't know, I was filmed in there too.
They came to you as well?
They came to me as well.
They came, Darryl and I, as a package, through first Dick Clark Productions.
Well, let me ask right now, since Daryl was used.
and i'd like to have that we have to go the film of different day we would have anything to do with
the other people they were interviewing
uh... absolutely nothing to do with the late county abduction film that they
were showing uh... and that we were going to be used for another purpose
which they didn't tell us uh... what i was horrible and let me ask right now
does since daryl was used
uh... daryl i interviewed us and treatment of the other night
and he said who were unambiguously that he had and not at that point i first thought of me he
hadn't even seen They interviewed him in the blind and they took the little clips of him and they put it throughout this production.
Oh, I think that's absolutely truthful on Stan's part.
I don't think Yvonne, myself, Dr. Lear, anyone had any idea what they were going to be doing.
I produced a A full apology for being involved in that, but as Dr. Lear mentioned, we were completely blindsided.
There are some complications with the way that program was done, and we're looking into that, you may be assured.
It's so many steps backward for the whole abduction thing.
For something like that to have been done?
Well, we did something that we had a suspicion because sometimes these segment programs do this sort of thing, do something a little shady.
That's happened before on a number of these programs.
So what we did was weave our answers so tight and so succinct, the interviewer wasn't even skilled at asking the proper questions.
So we would direct those questions and kept it online as much as possible so that they couldn't hardly be taken out of context.
And it seems to me that what they did when they obviously couldn't get anything out of Rogers to fit into this nightmare of a ridiculous program they had that they were going to put all this in, and there was very little they could take out of mind, that they just finally started asking questions of other people in our realm, so to speak, and to try to get them to make statements.
I think the whole thing was just taken out of context and blindsided everybody, and I think it's just absolutely reprehensible that these people would do this.
I mean, it has brought them enormous problems.
I know.
You know it's going to be re-aired?
Yeah, I heard.
I was just tickled to death.
They cut me, and we had, like Darrell said, we had our suspicions.
Let's see what some of the audience has to say.
answers to technical art i thought to myself
are good luck guys because if you're going to feel sound bites for your
recovery at much and they did they did you have a at all alright let's see
what some of the audience has to say uh... was to the rockies you're on the
road to rossi and and dr roger lear hello
i guess not uh...
Let me try this again.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Darryl Simms and Dr. Roger Lear.
Hello.
Hi, this is Tom in Reno.
Tom, turn your radio off.
It's off.
Okay, go right ahead.
Okay, now you already touched on this a little bit, but I was thinking it kind of sounds like what's happening is they're taking some of your own genetic material, enhanced of course, and using that to go around this thing, but I'd say that not having a point of entry uh... would
would possibly be the nano technology you know just like a little nano bots that they
can inject with a needle so you wouldn't have
any point of entry and then it would just grow
you could do that with the crystals as well actually that's uh... that's a
perfectly reasonable supposition uh... doctor uh... yeah i can buy that uh... possibility uh...
If you've got the needle down to a fine enough caliber and the little nano engine small enough, you probably could do something like that.
Interesting.
It's the only thing I've heard so far that would explain lack of an entry wound.
Art, I might be able to comment a little bit.
When I was in Brazil recently for the big Brazilian international conference, A lady showed me an x-ray of a square object about a quarter inch wide, about a half inch long, inside her neck.
And the remarkable thing about it is there's no point of entry, there's no scar, nothing whatsoever.
She had an x-ray after the object is missing, and there again, no point of entry, no exit, nothing.
But what I did see in the x-ray, and she's supposed to send these to me, Yes.
is that there were cuts, starations, cuts inside the muscle.
You could actually see that there was some kind of a cutting inside the muscle itself,
but not on the surface skin itself.
Well check me if I'm wrong here, but one common thread in so many abduction stories would
be a needle.
Yes.
Many, many, many things to do with needles.
It seems to just frighten these people to death.
I want to mention too, kind of a little bit off the subject, but if people are, if your
audience has any interest in knowing more about this stuff, Darrell and I have a couple
of video tapes.
and...
And they actually show some of the surgery going on.
Everything you heard tonight on this program is on the tape.
These are available now?
Yes, they are.
Alright.
How would people go about getting the tapes?
They can contact our site either through you or directly or go directly to our site at
www.anw.com forward slash first F-I-R-S-T or they can pick up the site off of your own
Oh, do we have your site linked?
Yes, you do.
We do.
Wonderful.
If you want, Art, they can contact you and we can get the tape sent.
Oh, that's not going to work.
Do you have an 800 number?
No, we don't.
No 800 number.
So somehow they've got to make it to a library and get hold of your site.
Well, if they want to call me, I can give you my office number, and I'm happy to do that.
Oh, doctor.
Oh, doctor.
It's 805-495-2613.
Or my email address is... Let me repeat that.
eight oh nine five six six
one three or by email address uh... let me let me read it's very good
eight oh five nine five
two six one three That's it.
Boy, are you going to be sorry.
Alright, and your email address?
My email address is R-K-Lear-L-E-I-R first.
That's 1-S-T at AOL.com.
I hear a phone ringing, Doctor.
That's R-K-Lear-L-E-I-R at first.
No, no wrong.
R-K-Lear first.
That's the number one.
And then S-T.
At AOL.com, right?
That's it.
And you can order the tapes at 805-495-2613 and the doctor will shortly be turning that number over to an answering service.
I suspect.
West of the Rockies.
Do the wild thing at 702-727-1295.
Interesting.
Digestive difficulties.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Roger Lear and Daryl Sims.
Hi, this is Aaron from Anacortes.
Oh, from where?
Anacortes, Washington.
Alright.
Um, okay.
About California and all that raining?
Hello?
I beg your pardon?
Um, all the raining in California?
Yes.
Um, I was just thinking that, uh, wouldn't that have something to do with North Shaddam's prediction with, um... Sir, you're off topic.
You must not be listening to my program.
Are you?
You're not listening, are you?
I am.
Well, I can't imagine you are.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Dr. Roger Lear and Darryl Sims.
Good morning, this is Tom from Streamlin, Illinois.
Hi, Tom.
Hi.
I was wondering if there was any consistency in what the implants looked like.
And where they were located in the body at all?
Very, very good question.
Particularly with a reference to what they look like.
Any consistency, gentlemen?
Yes, that's an excellent question.
And what we have is really several sets.
We have a set of three which are metallic, that are covered with a strange membrane.
And we have another set of three which are small, grayish-white balls.
We have one which is a small crystalline material, a glass-like material.
We have two from feet, one from the hand, two from legs, and one from the back of the neck.
That's just from the surgeries, and then we've got other implants.
They're all from the left side of the body.
Including Whitley's ear.
Alright, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Roger Lear and Darryl Sims.
Hi.
Yes, good afternoon, or good evening, I should say, right?
Morning here.
Good morning, Denard.
My name is Victor.
I'm calling you from San Diego, and I've enjoyed your show since you started here in San Diego.
Thank you.
I've been an all-night listener.
What you've done to my sleep, you have no imagination.
You cannot imagine.
You've changed all my habits.
Anyway, I lived in Mexico City for eight years, and, of course, I was a viewer of UFOs there.
They were on a continual basis.
I know.
Every day.
Almost every day.
Just amazing.
But I wanted to ask your guest a question.
He mentioned before that one of the objects that he found, a Gauss meter was put near it.
It pegged the scale.
Is that correct?
That's correct.
Okay.
Now, a Gauss meter measures magnetism.
That's correct.
That's correct.
Okay, now why is it, where was this located?
In his hand or his foot?
Back of the hand.
Back of the hand.
Why is it all the time that he carried this that metallic objects, pins, needles, metallic fragments, weren't attracted to his hand?
The feel was very, very minor.
The gauss meter picked up a very small feel.
But the stud finders, how he actually located the thing when he was He runs an apartment complex area, and he was playing with a stud finder one day, and he noticed it stopped on his hand.
Oh, really?
And he's not the only person we've had to find that.
Although, that's some story.
First time caller on the air with Roger Lear, Doctor, and Daryl Sims.
Hi.
Hi, this is Chris in Houston.
Hi, Chris.
Hi.
I just wanted to comment a little bit on what you were saying about the location of the implants.
It was just strange.
A friend of mine that was in the S.I.L.T.E.A.M.
You're going to have to speak up good and loud for us.
Okay, I'm sorry about that.
He was with the S.I.L.T.E.A.M.
in the military and it was just strange that he was mentioning that one of the things that they did do in the military was place an implant for tracking.
He also mentioned the location was on the left side of the vertebrae in the neck and also they had a problem with that and they removed that and put it behind his No, you are exactly right.
Doctor, they do that with SEAL teams and with special operations people.
They do implants.
I take it that they would be very terrestrial in origin and very much electronic.
Yes, they are.
We have in our collection some interesting man-made implants.
One that Darryl has with him is placed in emus.
And it's a small rod, kind of an enlarged version of what we have.
But if you look at it, it's an electronic device.
I mean, it looks like an electronic device.
All right.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Roger Lear and Darryl Sims.
Hi.
Hi.
Speak up good and loud.
Where are you?
I'm in Southern California.
All right.
I was wondering if you could possibly ask your guest what month in 1969 that event occurred
in Texas.
You have just done it.
And one other thing.
Either one of you.
Darryl, can you tell us what month?
The three lighted objects.
Oh, that was in October 1969 is when she went on the camping trip.
Now that doesn't mean that's when she was implanted, but that's when we suspect that it occurred.
This is like the fourth time I've heard something of that nature that took place in 1969.
Well, I'll give you a good hint that most people don't know anything about, and it'll come out in my book, Alien Hunter, is that most people get abducted in multiples or divisions or some form of elevens.
If you'll look in the back of Ray Fowler's book and look at the abduction times there, you'll be astounded to find they're all in divisibles or multiples of eleven.
One more thing.
When being abducted, I think it's best to go with the flow.
You don't go with the flow?
Well, you don't really have any choice, do you?
I've been an abductee since 1952, up until the time I was 17 years old, and I did not ever agree to that, and I didn't like it, and resisted it, and found other people did the same thing, and they have been better for it.
Other people don't think that.
Would either one or both of you conclude, or come to any conclusion with regard to the nature of the others, of these beings, benign or malignant?
I just don't think that you can think of those beings in either category.
We can't even decide or decipher who those beings are or what they are.
The more you talk about it, the more confused, really, you can get because a being, for example, that has the ability to manipulate your mind and induce multiple screens It certainly has the ability to make you see whatever they want you to see.
So, perhaps a gray can make you think you're looking at a reptilian, or a reptilian can make you think you're looking at a gray, vice versa.
Angelic beings, blue beings, light beings, and the rest.
I mean, how do we know that they are not even morphs of themselves?
Angels, religious figures, in other words, they could literally cause you to see anything they want?
Of course!
Well, my opinion's a little bit different.
First of all, in the rare cases where apparent angelic beings do show up in abduction scenarios, such as in the case of Calvin Parker and others, the aliens take off in the other direction at rapid speed, which indicates that there are at least two different groups of beings there.
All right, gentlemen, I think this has been one of the most informative programs of its kind ever broadcast.
And for that, I want to thank you both.
We will have either one of you or both of you back on again.
I'm flat astounded.
Well, Art, I really thank you for giving us the opportunity to present this material in the fashion that it was presented, which is pretty straightforward.
We tried to eliminate opinion.
I'm glad you've done exactly that, Doctor.
Thank you, Daryl Sims.
Thank you.
Thank you, Eric.
Gentlemen, good night.
And anybody who wants that tape, area code 805-495-2613.
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