Stanton Friedman, nuclear physicist and UFO researcher, critiques UPN’s 1998 Lake County Abduction Show for misleading edits, fake credentials (e.g., "Yvonne Smith" as an actor), and Air Force disinformation like Roswell’s fourth explanation. He warns of $5M wasted on unverified UFO claims while dismissing debunkers like Philip Klass—who lost a $6K bet over government documents—as unreliable. Friedman defends real cases (Betty Hill, Travis Walton) but slams fraudulent researchers (Bob Lazar, Darrell Sims) for false credentials and poor lab practices, urging transparency in UFO studies. His upcoming White Wolf documentary aims to separate science from sensationalism, though he cautions against reckless declassification of atmospheric surveillance data. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, or good morning as the case may be, across all these many prolific time zones stretching from the Hawaiian and East Mountain Chains in the west, eastward to the Caribbean, good morning in St. Thomas, south into South America, north all the way to the Pole, worldwide on the internet.
This is close a.m.
Great to be here.
A new week underway coming up next hour, Sam Friedman, the nuclear physicist, flying saucer physicist.
We'll talk to him about Lake County and the part he had in the production of that TV show, which is going to air again, by the way.
White House lawyers are negotiating with prosecutors in the Lewinsky investigation over the scope of the grand jury questioning plan for administration officials, including the president's closest advisor, Bruce Lindsay.
Lindsay under subpoena to testify, but his appearance has been delayed.
Meanwhile, Whitewater prosecutors received copies of the statements Clinton and Ms. Lewinsky gave in the Paula Jones sexual harassment lawsuit.
In the documents, both the president and former White House intern denied they had sexual relations with each other, according to sources.
68% of the American people, some say 70, want the president to remain where he is, think he's doing a good job, probably don't care about what he does in his private time.
I got to see Wag the Dog earlier today.
Willie Nelson was in Wag the Dog.
A movie following right along the lines of the present difficulties the president is having.
And in that movie, they decide they are going to start a war to divert attention.
It really is a riot.
I wonder if they knew something before they produced that movie.
Russia, talking about war, Russia, France, and Islamic leaders are rushing envoys to Iraq today to push for a peaceful end to the standoff over UN weapons inspections.
The U.S. pressed for Arab support for a possible military strike.
The UN Secretary General there asked the Security Council to double the amount of oil that Iraq can sell under an exemption to a UN embargo.
The U.S., Britain, and Iraq's leading adversaries indicated they could go along with the increase for humanitarian reasons.
Now, I don't understand this.
We're about to bomb Iraq, and we're willing to go along with their doubling the amount of oil they sell.
That's very interesting.
Why would we do that?
In Austin, Texas, a state board unanimously rejected Carla Faye Tucker's bid for clemency today.
She's on death row, leaving only the Supreme Court and the governor of Texas with the power to halt the pickaxe killer's scheduled execution tomorrow.
The board also rejected her request for a 60- to 90-day reprieve to allow the courts time to consider a challenge to the state's clemency process.
Tucker made a videotape in prison Saturday night asking Governor George Bush for a one-time 30-day stay of execution.
So she would be the first woman executed in I don't know how long.
How do you feel about that?
AIDS deaths across the U.S. dropped 44% in the first half of last year, showing the power of new treatments to control that disease.
Officials from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta presented new data at the fifth conference on retroviruses and opportunistic infections, according to the CDC.
12,040 Americans died of AIDS in the first half of 1997.
I got a very worrisome fact from Ray in Santa Barbara who said he has become aware that Antarctica's Larsen B ice shelf or ice field appears to be melting and he got that from CNN.
I've got a photograph on the website that you absolutely must see.
It involves fire.
Oh, speaking of fire, you can still vote, I understand, for the Webbies.
That is to say, get your vote in.
I understand that at the Webby website, there was a fire, and I guess the voting was delayed because of the fire.
One of their servers must have burned down.
No doubt due to our traffic.
We've done that to a lot of servers lately.
So if you want to vote for the Webby, I think you can still do it.
Go on up there.
Click on the icon on our website.
And if you would, vote for Keith Rowland's website.
We solicit your vote.
Anyway, listen, Art, I've written to you once before.
I'm the paramedic from Seattle.
Thought you'd enjoy this picture.
A nurse from a local trauma center, Harbor View Medical Center, has taken up the task of being the photo historian of the Seattle Fire Department.
Roxanne, the nurse, responded to a fire at a service station.
While taking some photos around the fire scene, she noticed a flare of fire from a window.
Since she had her camera in hand, she snapped off a picture.
Scientists in New Zealand are investigating the mysterious deaths of nearly 1,000 baby sea lions and other marine life on the remote Auckland Islands south of the country.
Scientists don't know what killed them.
Some have suggested a toxin or a mysterious virus.
Another theory saying the deaths might be linked to El Niño.
Mass deaths of mammals such as sea lions are not unknown.
Sometimes it's a result of pollution, but given the remoteness of these islands, that, in this case, seems rather unlikely.
So there you have it.
That's kind of a rough look through the news.
I've got a lot more here, and I'll kind of feed it to you as we go.
Again, at the top of the hour, Stanton Friedman, who is four time zones to the east, and he will be here talking about that program he was on, and of course, much more.
As you probably know, this kid is not mechanically inclined.
Electronic, sure, but mechanics, uh-huh, no.
I have just turned my little Geo Metro.
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When it comes to information on extraterrestrials, If you're like me, you just can't get enough.
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Well, all right.
We're going to open lines now.
Unscreened calls.
I have no idea what awaits.
I never do.
We don't ask.
We just push buttons.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Good morning.
unidentified
Hi there, Art.
I enjoyed your Dreamland program yesterday with the Michigan UFO incident from the US.
And, like, if he had, like, a sister or something like that, don't you think that that person would have been, like, coming out and just, like, really, you know, like getting very upset about this issue?
The rain from California is coming this way with a vengeance.
Man, I'll tell you, it's really something else out there.
Let's talk for a second about night vision.
Particularly on a night like this when the clouds are prolific, there's no starlight out there.
If there was somebody out and about near my yard, I would be able to see them if I had night vision.
I do have night vision.
The AMT Model 2 Night Vision Spotting Scope is what I've got.
And it gives you a great feeling of security.
Know why?
Because if someone's out there, you can see them and they can't see you.
And that is, believe me, a very, very distinct advantage.
This night vision scope has a built-in infrared illuminator for exactly situations like this.
You turn it on, and it illuminates a yard-type area without anybody out in the yard being able to see any sort of light whatsoever.
In fact, the night vision spotting scope actually amplifies light a minimum of 33,000 times.
It's got a big 90-millimeter, three-power, all-glass ground lens, high-quality optics, is 8 inches long, weighs 22 ounces, easy to use, a Russian tube, assembled and serviced in America with a two-year warranty, and it is cutting-edge technology.
How much?
Well, something like this used to be thousands and thousands of dollars and way out of the reach of anybody, any normal person.
Now, $349.95.
And that includes shipping and handling, getting it to you.
It turns night into day, folks.
Call Bob Crane in the morning.
He's the guy who's got them.
At 1-800-522-8863.
That's 1-800-522-8863.
It is the Z-Crane Company and Night Vision.
Are you having arthritis pain?
One more little item, and we're actually more than caught up here.
It's Snappy, the video snapshot from Play Incorporated.
God, I love this thing.
I love it.
I use it all the time, including tonight.
It's about the size of a pack of cigarettes.
It plugs into the parallel port on your computer, so you don't have to take anything apart.
You know, you normally plug your printer in there.
Instead, you plug in a Snappy, and then you plug any video into the Snappy, camcorder, TV, VCR, whatever.
There are 3.0 software loads, and you've got a little picture of a TV screen on your computer.
And then whatever video you've got going into the Snappy appears on your computer.
And when you want to still photograph something you can put on a website or into a photo album in a computer, boom, you click your mouse button and you get a high resolution, actually higher than the original.
I have no idea how they do that.
A photograph that you can save or display.
Snappy has won 25 major awards thus far.
That just doesn't happen.
New Media Magazine says Snappy compares to a $20,000 digital camera, and they're right.
You can get Snappy for $99.
You can see Snappy on the web at www.play.com or go to a Snappy dealer, which would be your local computer store, just about anywhere, and request it.
From Russian radio, folks, being relayed through Australia.
Here it comes.
unidentified
Okay, voice of Russia.
By this time, the Russian space agency Yuri Kopchev has made a statement at a news conference in Washington after talk with the American Secretary of State Madeleine Ovac and the President's National Security Advisor, Samuel Berger, to the effect that Russia is not giving any aid for Iran in developing weapons of mass inanimation and missiles.
13 cases mentioned by Washington and the alleged handover of such technologies by Russia, he said, have been intercepted by Russian special services.
Such attempts have been made by private companies, but never by the government.
If the Iraqis were to be so silly as to use biological or chemical weapons against us, I think it entirely probable that we would return with nuclear devices.
Ones probably that go deep into the ground and explode and take out bunkers and whatever else might be underground.
I'm told the coming Fracas will use nearly all smart weapons, whereas the last war used a very small percentage of them.
I don't know.
Would a president start a war to divert attention from a domestic difficulty?
Sure, dolphins beaching themselves, monkeys attacking people in Japan.
unidentified
Yeah, well, I happen to have quite a big library of religious and theological books at home.
And I remember distinctly, and you can take this for what it's worth, reading about God said when the end times come, animals the way they are now, they have a supernatural fear of man, meaning, you know, a lot of animals avoid man whenever they can.
Who's to say, you know, when the end is, but I just thought it was quite interesting that that point was made, and I had just read that, and it just seemed to be, you know, they both seemed to be just about the same thing, and it kind of makes me wonder.
You know, depending how the world is going to end, and if it's going to end by biblical prophecy of fire and brimstone or whatever, what could you do?
Where could you hide?
I mean, I know as far as the government goes, and this was actually shown televised on TV probably a few months ago, they've got some pretty hefty underground installations built.
I mean, you'd be knocking on the door, and there'd be no answer.
unidentified
Oh, absolutely not.
I mean, when they televised this, and they talked about how this underground installation was for the Congress and the presidential people, and how they had enough food and water to last 25 years down there.
And I'm trying to think, well, they're building it all with our taxpayers' money.
What's left for us?
What's left for Joe, John, Jane, and whoever else?
You know, we're on our own, so you really can't do anything except if you have your beliefs, get on your knees and pray and hope the judgment is a good one for you.
Sure, they'd whisk the President and Congress and all down into these sea bunkers, but I don't think judgment respects any amount of concrete and steel reinforcements at all.
Hey, two of the affiliates here in town at 10 o'clock news reported that Tom Clancy has just about definitively completed an agreement to purchase the Vikings.
And I have a question or just a curiosity with your insight.
How do you think that these interplanetary alignments that are coming up on March 28th have any association with the more frequent activity that's being noted all over the planet in regard to the extraterrestrials and SETI's efforts?
I talked earlier to Bob Crane up in Northern California, and he said, you know, tonight, if it keeps going like this, houses are going to begin to come off hills.
And I had this Doberman, and she was sitting on the floor, kind of laying on the floor next to me and eating this, eating one of her bones or something.
And she stopped eating, and she just picked up her ears, and she was listening, and she started wagging her tail.
And then she turned around and gave me one of these one-eyed looks, you know, and she was just laughing.
You could tell she was just digging it really, and I just had to call you and say, maybe there is something because she sure was getting a kick out of that, you know.
Once again, here I am coming up at a moment of four time zones to the east of Asten Friedman, nuclear physicist and victim of a UPM television show that interviewed him, I think, and then sort of took his comments and simply interspersed them in a program he never got to see.
We'll talk to him about that.
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Three guys from Houston write, Aren't we heard there was an AP report that you were mentioned in the Lewinsky tapes.
Is there any truth to this?
No, none that I'm aware of.
I have never known Monica, met Monica, nor the president.
So there'd be no reason for my name to be mentioned.
But this is how these kinds of things get started.
Now, let us move east, way east, to actually, where are you located, Stan?
Bachelor's and Master's in Physics from the University of Chicago in the mid-50s.
Carl Sagan and I were classmates for three years.
Then spent, I've had three careers, really.
I've spent 14 years in industry working on a wide variety of very advanced, classified, eventually canceled research and development programs, things like nuclear airplanes, fission and fusion rockets.
Worked on a nuclear rocket not too far from where you are, as a matter of fact, when I was with Westinghouse.
Really?
Yeah, you know, 90 miles from nowhere out of the nuclear test site there.
I worked out of Pittsburgh, but we did our testing out in Nevada.
You know, NASA just announced that all manned missions to Mars and the Moon have been canceled.
And then the next day they came back, and Dan Golden said, no, we are still committed to manned missions to the moon and Mars.
And today I got a call from Jim De La Toso who said the reason they canceled them, aside from financial, was they now have better systems of propulsion.
A nuclear rocket engine, which uses hydrogen heated to high velocity and kicked out the back end of the rocket, is, well, twice as efficient, let's say, as a chemical rocket.
Better miles per gallon, if you will.
Make a great upper stage.
And, of course, I worked on nuclear fusion rockets as well.
They would get us to the stars if you want to spend the dough and take the time and all the rest of that.
No, we have, yeah, H-bonds will do very nicely, thank you.
They use nuclear fusion.
And, of course, the sun uses nuclear fusion.
And out when you're prospecting, you want to find out how much oil is in the ground.
You can use a little accelerator.
You put down a borehole and make neutrons with nuclear fusion.
But, no, early 60s, we had a project going.
It was paper study, if you will, to use nuclear fusion for very deep space travel.
But again, there's no mission.
Without the mission, nothing happens.
So we know a lot about nuclear fusion.
Just look up in the sky in the middle of the day.
You'll see a lot of it going on.
And the beauty of nuclear fusion is if you use the right stuff in the right way, you can kick particles out the back end of a fusion rocket that have 10 million times as much energy per particle as they can get in a dumb old chemical rocket.
Okay, and they call me back the next day with all the arrangements.
And on January 2nd, I caught a plane from Fredericton to Toronto, another one to Los Angeles, spent overnight, was interviewed for a little over an hour the next day, saw my daughter for three hours in L.A., caught a plane back.
Now, I was asked questions by somebody who obviously was very knowledgeable about UFO abductions.
She did ask me to include the question in the answer.
That's a standard technique on television, of course, where the interviewer doesn't appear on camera.
I knew that Devon Smith, whom I respect, was going to be on the show, that she had been interviewed.
I met nobody else when I was there.
The actual filming was done in Burbank in somebody's home being used as a studio.
And, of course, the one outfit I heard mentioned was Dick Clark Productions.
Now, Dick Clark's been around even longer than I have been around, as you know, and I'd never thought of them as particularly a sleeves bag outfit, after all.
He hands out money with that McMahon, you know.
Sure.
So my feeling, there had been some quiet noise on the internet in the week or so earlier than that about a show that wasn't well defined at all.
And the rumbling was, well, we respectable UFO people shouldn't go on such a show.
We'll teach the producers that they have to treat us properly.
And I responded on the Internet, this is before I accepted the chore, that, look, television is about money, it's about deadlines, it's not about truth.
If the good guys don't go on, the bad guys will, and there's certainly no shortage of them in ufology.
That is my viewpoint, that I've done a lot of television shows.
You rarely, except when you're on absolutely live, and even then you don't get full control of anything.
I called UPN, I called Dick Clark Productions, and I called the FCC to try to get a handle.
Now, the FCC, you leave a message when you finally get to the Wright office, and they haven't called me back.
De Clark Productions was very defensive, and supposedly somebody is calling me back.
But, oh, we didn't give anybody the impression it was genuine.
I brought up the Orson Welles business, War of the Worlds.
You know, you scared a lot of people, but you didn't make clear what this was.
And if you're going to run it again, don't you think there ought to be a little comment that says the UFO experts did not see the video before it was before they were interviewed?
So the UPN called me back, and they tossed it back to Dick Clark Productions, but supposedly I'm going to get a letter with a copy to them expressing my concern.
Well, I'm not going to give up that easy.
I want to see what's going to happen.
And, you know, yes, I signed a release.
They could use my voice and face and, you know, throughout the universe, I think it said, as these things often do.
And then others were saying, well, we've known your work for a long time, and if I listen very carefully, I could tell that you weren't really talking about the video, although they linked it beautifully.
And, you know, I understand that half the people who voted, although I don't know how legitimate the voting is, I understand you could push the yes button over and over again to say it was real, that half thought it was real.
And, you know, if you weren't watching carefully and didn't really catch the credits, and some people told me that their stations had a split screen at the end with the news advertising, you know, tune in two minutes for the news.
I guess a similar version had been around for some time.
I have to ask, though, okay, suppose somebody else had been on.
Forget the UFO community.
That's a small percentage of the world.
There were probably, what, 3 to 5 million viewers anyway.
I don't know what the ratings were, so I can't say.
Would we all be better off if somebody less well-equipped, if one of the phonies that are out there, for example, had been on the show instead, and as an expert said things that weren't true?
He is a nuclear physicist who was recently commenting on abductions for UPS.
And I don't think he's too happy about his part, Matt.
He's contacted the FCC and the Dick Clark Productions.
And we'll see what happens on the rerun, whether there's any disclaimers or not.
What image comes to mind when I say Valentine's Day?
Hearts and flowers?
Angels?
Cupids, maybe.
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Go ahead, treat your Valentine.
As you probably know, I'm not exactly an auto mechanic, but like a heart transplant for your car.
Well, it was for my little metro, no question about that.
Well over 63 miles per gallon now.
Back to Santon Friedman.
Stanton, what is going on now in the world of ufology?
Well, one thing that's happening to me, and I'm pleased to announce it to your audience, Art, is that because of the problems of not having control of anything when you do television, you sign releases.
Often the program doesn't get released for a long time.
But I'm going to be out there, what, the 18th, I guess, of February.
We're going to be going over.
I'll spend three days talking to them, and we'll be, you know, setting down the basic parameters of what we want to say.
One of the problems, you know, people can complain about this UPN show, and I'm not blaming them for complaining.
It was an insult to our intelligence in many ways.
But certainly the very same night, there was another show on television on a different network about UFOs, which had Bob Lazar.
They were claiming he was a nuclear physicist.
He isn't.
They had Frank Kaufman on.
They said he was a sergeant at Roswell in 1947 and a member of a secret group of nine.
He can talk about the saucer he saw.
Of course, he wasn't a sergeant.
He got out in October of 45.
Loads of other shows in which there is false information.
I mean, you know, the ultimate is the United States Air Force has been lying.
One of the things I'll send anybody who sends me a self-address stamp, number 10 envelope to my post office box in beautiful Holton, Maine, post office box 958 Holton 04730-0958, is a five-page review of the Air Force's fourth explanation for Roswell.
You know, the crash test demi-volume, the Roswell report case closed.
Well, no, yeah, yes, that Colonel Haynes is another Haynes who wrote for the CIA with false information.
And, you know, I resent being lied about in the first place, but I resent the fact that the public paid for Captain McAndrew's time and for publishing the report.
They paid for the really monstrous report, almost 1,000 pages, from Colonel Weaver, the disinformation specialist.
We're talking big bucks here, massive misrepresentation.
That seems to get by.
So what I want to do in the show is actually document things.
You know, I thought that's what documentaries were supposed to do.
And apparently the public is, let us say, far readier to accept the notion of flying saucers as alien visitors than they are the president.
But that's not surprising, I suppose.
The facts are clearer, I think.
We don't know.
We know less about what the president did.
So we will be looking at the hard information, and we will check out anybody who's on.
As I'm sure you're aware, I've been involved.
I've been attacked by the, quote, some members of the UFO community for exposing frauds, which, you know, shoot the messenger, after all.
And to use Ronald Reagan's great line, trust but verify, I understand it's a Russian proverb, but I don't speak Russian, so I want to gorbage those lines.
But we will check people out.
And for too long, there have been frauds and ufology.
I mean, there's the Air Force on the one side with their lies.
And I have challenged them to a debate.
No response, of course.
But wouldn't it be great to have a debate with, say, Dr. Bruce McAbee and I on one side and Colonel Weaver and Captain McAndrew on the other?
They don't have guts enough, frankly, and I'll challenge them right here and now.
But stop the lies, gentlemen.
I mean, I'm lied about, and I resent it very much.
And I resent it more than the UPN kind of thing.
We've had loads of those.
And, you know, if they had said at the beginning of the show that the four experts were interviewed without their having seen the video that's the focus of this show or some words, you know, a disclaimer of some sort.
But I don't like being misused.
I'm not handsome, but apparently my face is well known in ufology.
Yeah, and it'll be, I don't know what the ratings were, and we will see whether they act responsibly.
I'm not going to give up waiting for a letter from UPN or letting Dick Clark Productions off the hook.
I mean, each says it's the other's responsibility.
One of the things that concerns me, and maybe your listeners can help a little bit here, is that how was it presented in the TV sections of the newspapers and TV guides?
We didn't have it here, so I don't know, but some people tell me that it was listed under documentaries.
Well, a few scared, most angry, because, you know, I've got a fairly educated audience in the field of ufology.
That's for sure.
And they were insulted.
They were insulted.
On the one hand, it was said to be 8-millimeter home Film, and on the other, we've got credits at the end showing the whole thing was acted, and we've got a presentation that suggests that it's a real presentation.
Oh, yes, I understand the Sheriff's Department up in Lake County, Minnesota, got loads of calls and knew nothing about this family.
And, you know, even green grass in Minnesota in November, forget it.
You won't see any here either.
But, so, you know, yeah, it was a bad deal.
Could have been worse, believe it or not.
That's why I want to do this, my documentary, and where it'll be clear what's going on and that the phonies need not apply for space on the air.
We are looking, though.
I'm always looking for new witnesses, Roswell, crash saucers, all the rest.
One of the things that I found after the crash test dummies was that there were a lot of Air Force people who were upset.
They were insulted by that explanation.
As a matter of fact, I talked to Colonel Madsen.
He was one of the leaders of the project about dropping the crash test dummies from balloons, from ejection seats, and so forth.
I'd seen a little blurb in a newspaper article, so I called him and visited with him when I was down there.
I made five trips to New Mexico this past year.
There's a place called Roswell, where something strange happened 50 years ago that I was the first to, as a civilian, to investigate.
Anyway, I talked to him, and he was adamant.
Even though his picture's in the book, this is the book, Roswell Report Case Closed, and a five-page review to all your listeners who send me that self-addressed stamp envelope.
He was adamant on a couple of different levels.
One was he pointed out that the crash test dummies had to be the same size and weight as real pilots.
Second thing, very interesting, he and his wife, before they were married, had been in the cities, independently heard that bodies, alien bodies, had been brought into the base years earlier.
He also pointed out something that gets to what guys would tell their wives and all that stuff.
He had a job rating which was lousy, and it was because his boss didn't know what he was doing.
He was working on something related to the U-2 project, and it was his boss's boss who corrected the rating because he knew what was going on.
So it illustrates security.
And if you talk to people who've had clearances, they understand that need to know.
In other words, some people act as if you tell everybody and hope they won't talk.
Well, you tell them next week I'll be in Washington, D.C. at the Archives, too, looking through newly declassified materials.
And it'll be interesting, you know, to see what I see.
People don't realize how much it's in old stuff.
They think it's all declassified, you know, after 20 years, 30 years, whatever.
And if you believe the MJ tweet in Seek Magic, the bodies were a couple miles away.
So the rancher didn't see them.
I first heard about bodies was when I spoke with friends, I guess is the simplest way to put it, of Barney Barnett, the civil engineer who discovered other wreckage out in the plains of San Augustine, 160 or so miles away.
We're talking now about what did occur at Roswell, and we're going to talk a bit about Cosmic Watergate as well.
From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified
Leave me this way.
I can't lie.
Can't save a lot I know I'm afraid But I got a time You won't seem to stay this time I know I'm afraid Watch it in the moment as you turn around today.
Stay my way to the land.
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Friedman, Stan, we were talking about Roswell and what was real about Roswell.
I mean, first, as a physicist, I'm offended by no references to anything, some inconsistencies from place to place.
Second, the checking I've done hasn't given me a lot of faith in things.
For example, on a radio program, not yours, I asked Colonel Corso, I said, how is it that you know the exact date, July 6th, when you saw that body at Fort Missouri?
Well, I know when I was transferred to Fort Riley.
Well, that was March or April.
I think we were members of the control group, the Majestic 12 group.
Well, we had about a dozen boards connected with the National Security Council at that time.
Well, this wasn't a group that met Thursdays for lunch.
I think he got it from my book, or Burns did.
When he was in Italy, according to two Italian researchers, they told me this in Brazil.
It's been a busy year.
He spent, I don't know, 10 days over there.
He told them that he'd been in trouble.
He was mixed up with missile battalions.
I checked with Sandia, both the military and the lab side.
Ain't listed there.
You know, Wilbur Smith, the Canadian.
Wilbur died of a brain tumor in the early 60s.
Wilbur was at the Department of Transport.
He wasn't in the military.
How could that be, in other words?
And there were a number of other claims being made that, you know, what's the basis?
Also, the whole book is predicated, basically, on the notion that Corsault wound up saving the world single-handedly.
It almost says that in the language.
But not until after he got involved, which was 1961.
And frankly, what happened between?
The people who were members of that control group weren't do-nothing type people.
They were exactly the opposite.
So I accept the basic notion, and I even talk about it in my book, Top Secret Magic, that what he says, that you would sort of slip it into industries.
Now, remember, some people have acted as if what that means is you take the piece from the saucer and you file it with the blueprints in the right place, and that tells somebody how to make it.
You certainly wouldn't do that.
There wouldn't be any blueprints there, and you wouldn't be able to duplicate it that way.
What you would do is find the best people working in that particular area.
Let's say metallurgy, let's say it's a new device, and you know what it does, but maybe it might help them in what they're doing.
And, you know, the thing that makes a particular research objective more likely to be achieved is knowing that what you're trying to achieve can be done.
The Soviet atomic bomb, for example, he knew you could build an atomic bomb.
The U.S. had exploded five times.
But Hitler didn't know you could build one, so he spent very little money.
He knew you could build rockets.
And by the end of the war, you know, give it another six months, he'd have had something stronger than the rocket.
He could hand out pieces of stuff that gives people new directions to look, new things to try.
But it doesn't, you know, first you have to figure out how something works.
Then you try to duplicate it, and then you have to do it economically.
In other words, if you find a super special high-strength metal that only costs you $5,000 a pound to make, you don't make automobiles out of it.
And, you know, the one kicker you need to think is, is it something from a highly classified military project?
Now, when I say the cost is important, it's important for cars.
But if it's part of a laser weapon system or a nuclear weapon system, A, the general world would never know about it, and B, cost doesn't really matter.
So that's one of the kickers that anything new and really different, and certainly bismuth and magnesium is different, if it were part of a military thing, you'd never know about it.
You know, you'd have no reference point.
But the reasons you prove something is extraterrestrial.
And then when you throw into the pot the intentional government deception, now you know that, for example, Strom Thurmond withdrew his introduction to Corso's book, saying it was for another book.
And of course, Corso and Burns are suing each other.
I've known him for a long time when he was just a high school kid in California there.
And so he's trying, on the one hand, to say, hey, it's okay.
It's all right.
We'll work together.
But when I find some of the things that are in his book, I almost laugh.
For example, one of my great major discoveries, if you will, about MJ-12 was that Dr. Donald Howard Menzel, Harvard University astronomer, UFO debunker, how could he be part of a highly classified group and so forth?
Was that he had a long history of a double life?
He worked with the NSA, continuous connection with the NSA 30 years as of 1960 of anybody in the country and its Navy predecessor.
Well, Carol says, look, I had access about Menzel.
Now, he never mentions NSA.
He talks about the CIA.
Yeah, he was connected with the CIA.
Well, my whole focus was on the NSA.
And I've got copies of Menzel's contracts with them.
There was a patent dispute.
There were other things going on.
And no question, that's true.
He was with the NSA.
He talks about a book on question documents.
Osborne's book published in 1960, MJ-12 Documents, is the Truman Signature on a memo from 1947 establishing MJ-12.
76.
No, you can't have similar signatures.
Well, the book was published before 1910.
I had already published this little piece of information.
Phil Klass had come up with the 76 number.
And it says two sentences away from a quote by these guys that you can have identical signatures, just not consecutive ones.
I mean, Harry Truman signed his name a lot.
As a matter of fact, it's something he wrote after that 48 victory.
Remember the Dewey victory over Truman, according to Chicago?
Oh, yes, of course.
He wrote somebody in the family that he was signing his name 500 times.
You want to bet there aren't some, quote, identical signatures there?
And there were a bunch of other things.
He attacks Marcel, one of the key witnesses here.
And if you check carefully, the attack is unsubstantiated.
It's wrong.
If you look at the very records that are supposed to show that he was a malfeasant, a liar, an exaggerator, well, that's not the way it was.
Does he want that?
And he was.
The record proves it.
So, you know, slots, it's one of the difficulties.
How does the layperson, interested in UFOs, everybody seems to be.
I mean, look at men and women, you know, Independence Day and so forth.
How does he sort through the good from the bad?
And that's the distressing things about the UPN show.
It didn't give a true picture of the abduction situation.
Yeah, makes life eight pages of information and it's hard to fold and fit in a small envelope, believe me.
Stan Friedman or UFO, post office box 958, Holton, H-O-U-L-T-O-N, Maine, which is M-E 04730-0958,
and you'll get a five-page specials, special prices on my CD-ROM, my videos, my books, and another page that has the addresses of MuFun and Mr. Farish, and a bookstore, Arcturus Books, that sells UFO stuff.
In many cases, you can't get any looking for it, and it's great to have someplace where you can go for it.
The theory is basically straightforward if you've got it.
Difficulty comes and two ends.
And it's not fully appreciated that one of the key things of the atomic bomb, for example, was learning to machine explosives, pieces of explosives around pieces of fissionable Material, each of them less than a critical mass.
If you push them together, explosives have to be machined very carefully.
That's not a job I would want.
Secondly, the hardest part is to get the fissionable material.
unidentified
Natural uranium, you're not going to make a bomb out of.
You've got to build a big reactor and convert some uranium.
That's where the problem came.
And until recently, where there might be Soviet fissionable materials on the market, so to speak, black market, I guess I'd say, knowing what to do is one thing.
But having the industrial know-how, the building in which U-235 was separated during World War II is a mile long.
They had to develop these nickel with the little holes in it, you know, and pumps for uranium hexafluoride.
At one time, they were using 11% of the electricity of the United States to pump all that.
Well, yeah, frankly, if you were to ask what's the biggest threat to mankind in the world today, I would without hesitation say all that nuclear material around the Soviet Union and the guys who are guarding it not getting paid.
Because now, suddenly, you have a way for your crazies, if you will, to try to get access where they wouldn't have to take this large industrial development.
And I think the world is going to be moving more toward nuclear power, for example, because of all the concerns with the environment.
You know, the greenhouse effect and stuff like that.
Well, when you have a fusion efficient reactor, you don't produce carbon dioxide, and you don't dump an awful lot of bad stuff out there, you know.
So we live in a changing time.
I'm anxious to see the next century, not just because it'll mean I've reached that age, but things are happening and changing and different.
I mean, look, if six months ago you and I had been talking about Asia and economics, would either of us have predicted what's been happening over there?
And it's affected Canada, of course, because we have a lot of people from Hong Kong who've come to Vancouver and other parts of the country bringing their money.
And a lot of students from over there, well, they're not coming to where the money is high.
The Canadian dollar is fairly low compared to the U.S. dollar, but it's sure been a lot better than the Asian currencies.
And so unpredictable things happen.
This El Nino business, those ice storms in Quebec and Ontario, Maine, northern New York, there hasn't been anything like them since we've had electricity.
For example, in the Antarctic now, I find a large chunk of an ice shelf in Antarctica is melting at such a rate that in two years, a 12,000 square mile area will have simply disappeared, gone.
East of the Rockies, you're on there with Sentin Friedman.
Good morning.
unidentified
Hello.
Hello.
Sentinel.
I have a question about the American computer company, Jack Schulman, and his confrontation with Bell Labs and AT ⁇ T about the origin of the transistor.
Yeah, you know, I've talked to Jack a couple times on the phone, little stuff going back and forth.
That is all in what I call my gray basket.
I don't know what to make of that, and I guess I'm glad that nobody seems to bring up the fact that in Top Secret Magic, my book about Operation Majestic 12, I suggest that one possibility of new technology derived from alien artifacts, if you will, is the transistor, Bell Labs transistor.
And nobody brings up the fact that I suggested that before the Corsa book came.
Well, here's the point that I made, was that, you know, the official birth date of the transistor is December 23rd, 1947.
What is strangest to me is that, not that Bell Labs was doing any work on it, they were the outstanding electronics lab in the world, no question about that.
And if you had pieces of wreckage that looked like they might relate to instrumentation control systems, that sort of thing, that'd be the place that you send them.
They did a lot of classified work.
But what was strange is that there were three top scientists already well established working on what is basically a tiny little device.
Normally you'd expect a senior scientist and a junior one, and they'd publish a paper, and then others would get into the act.
Here you got three top-notch guys, and I am not saying they were top-notch because they later got a Nobel Prize for the transistor.
But if you look at their publishing record as scientists, they were major wheels, if you will.
Why do you put three guys on a little device unless you have reason to believe that they can figure out what the heck is going on here?
They're going to find out something that's out of this world.
So I suggested that as an example of something, Bell Labs in Sandia, Nuclear Weapons Lab in New Mexico, where probably some of the wreckage went, were closely connected.
AT ⁇ T actually ran Sandia for many years.
And so Schumann's stuff, and I got a little disgusted at some of the flagrant attacks on other people in all directions.
And, you know, one thing they did do well, they sort of copied a B-29 after the war.
National Security Council meetings in the late 40s, in early 50s, were very concerned because here they were flying all these bombers that were, you know, Chinese copies.
They had a B-29.
Very advanced technology.
And, you know, it's easy to say, well, let me see, here's an engine.
Yeah, I can make one like that.
Well, it takes materials that can stand high temperature, for example.
How do you make those to tight tolerances?
The old joke used to be army equipment cost you a buck a pound and air force equipment cost you 50 bucks a pound.
Because stuff that, you know, is in our life that is quite remarkable by yesterday's standards.
I got a computer on my desk that people would have killed before.
make Pentium chips in them how much I mean we're talking hundreds of millions of dollars funny is you know you grind them out and we take it for granted and for under $1,500 you get a splendid computer but before that happens somebody has to invent have invested an enormous amount of energy effort money smart people doing things we tend to forget what lies behind that simple little it's just a computer you know whatever
And, you know, I'm anxious to see how it turns out, but I don't like the level of rhetoric, the nastiness, the we've got it but we can't show it to you kind of things.
But do we dare, at this point in history, with the world watching, which is not quite intentional, would we dare to use nuclear weapons under those conditions?
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Sam Friedman.
Hello.
unidentified
Yes.
My question is, it's my understanding that a certain solar grid alignment is necessary in order to deploy and properly cause the atomic bomb to create the chain reaction?
They had a demonstration on ABC's Good Morning America, and they showed this cold fusion process that degraded nuclear materials at such an accelerated rate that you could sit and watch the needle just go down.
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Stanton Friedman, once again, I just got a message that we were interrupted by KSFO San Francisco, by the National Weather Service, Flood Watches, Padero Valley, Salinas River near Spreckles and Bradley.
You know, not relevant to what you just said, but I was musing during the break there that we have this media frenzy about the possible activities of the president and a young lady.
And enormous amounts of energy, tens of pages in Newsweek and all over the place.
Television is consumed with it.
Now, if we put anywhere near that effort into sort of a grand jury on UFOs, we'd blow the lid off the whole business, which is more important than the larger scheme of things.
Cosmic conspiracy, but there's a new executive order, 12958, that makes it harder to keep old stuff classified, stuff more than 25 years old, unless the agencies will all be declassified, more than 25 years old, on April of 2000.
One of the steps, for example, the presidential libraries have sent all their classified material to the archives, too, to have it reviewed in a central place because they can't afford the manpower to do it.
And, you know, it may come as a shock to people.
The Eisenhower Library has 50,000 pages of classified National Security Council material.
Well, that story about the Navy destruction was certainly worrisome and distressing because, you know, I don't know who to believe on that one.
Is it because they were asked to take action and they didn't, so it got destroyed or whether it was requested?
You know, it's convoluted.
But I think if you hire enough researchers, and also there's something else that could be done, you can solicit testimony from enough people so that the government can't take action.
Let's say $5 million would do it nicely on the UFO scene.
But it's a question of paying attention.
Look at that CIA story that came out early last year.
The Air Force says that F60s were super secret reconnaissance aircraft.
That's balder dash.
Dr. McAbee has looked at the statistics.
There was no increase when they started flying U-2s, and it was not a big airplane.
Even the SR-71 isn't huge.
If you're flying over 60,000 feet, what's anybody going to see that's going to excite them?
A little dot in the sky.
I've never heard of a U-2 making right-angle turns.
Nor have I. And flying silently and coming down and landing and then taking back off straight up, you know, out in the middle of nowhere.
That makes no sense.
I've written a critique of the CIA report, and I'm mentioned in there in a strange way.
The problem with the report seems to be that the guy who wrote it from the IA of apparently special compartment information, some of the page you could read eight words on.
Okay, my issue is, Stan, I'm reading the Jim Mars book, Alien Agenda, and I would like to know if you feel that the chapter I'm on is on the mind side of the remote viewing.
And Mars presents a remedy, or the remote viewer presents a remedy to the ozone layer to produce so that that molecule can take it up to the ozone and cover it up.
To do this, and your pre-tick on the Alien Agenda book.
The first release was 1% of what he eventually wound up with.
And the word is he still didn't get it all.
So we really don't know how good some few people are.
And that's what you're looking for, the best of the best.
Now, with special situations to provide additional information not otherwise obtainable.
And I think occasionally it works.
What we know from the Courtney Brown example, certainly, that not all the bragging about how good it is is true, no question.
I'm stating these things.
But I think it needs to be done carefully.
And it would be nice if it were done outside of what I would call a military environment.
I mean, it's good, you know, if you can get inside the head or the base or whatever.
But there's more to this than that.
And I think we will learn, which the aliens probably know already, since they seem to work flying troll rather than a gun in your back, to get the abductees, if not in Lake County.
And I've spent a lot of time with some of the big wheels.
It's distressing, and I'm sure what distressed some of the people in the field about that show is it gave a totally misusing of suffering in its stuff, threatening stuff, when in reality we're dealing with mind control.
I don't know how you show that on television, but yes, I think there could be a lot of reasons.
One of them, I think, would relate to the fact that we're finding out that an awful lot of diseases have a genetic component.
And that offers the hope of, I'll call it a genetic cure.
That's a very simplistic phrase, but you know what I mean, of fixing what nature didn't do right.
And so if you're going to do a survey of a planet looking for A new genetic material, and B, so that you've got something that the locals might want, you've got to pick up an awful large number of samples to get all the craziness gene or that gene or the other gene.
And for example, a hemophilia, one in 5,000 males has it.
If you only pick up 300 people, you're discourse of other genetic diseases.
So, you know, I can imagine when the big day comes, they say, okay, guys, we know how to cure your diseases.
There's no point in doing that until you can feed your people, obviously.
And you idiots haven't learned to do that.
You're spending your money on weapons.
That might be one reason for abducting people.
Another, grad students studying the behavior of earthlings.
You have a lot of stories of people being shown, I'll call it pictures, that's a crude way of saying it, scenes, if you will, and getting their reactions.
Maybe they're the alien psychologists Trying to understand what makes these people pick.
You know, this is a strange planet.
There's a lot of weird behavior.
We let 35,000 children die every day.
That was the number as of two, three years ago, needlessly from preventable disease and starvation.
And we spend three-quarters of a trillion dollars a year.
And that the odds of our making it to a type one, which would be able to harness, for example, the energy of a star, the odds of us not destroying ourselves and making it to a type one are slim and none.
Well, yeah, one of the things that may be going on is the great historians of the local neighborhood know just what you just said and have learned that the only way to get a primitive society whose major activity is tribal warfare, that's us, to move forward is to take over and say, okay, guys, we've had it with you.
You're good at killing the grip of, you know, 1,800 different planetary systems.
Here's what you have to do.
And we'll make sure that you do it because we really don't want a civilization wandering around the local neighborhood with your attitudes.
You guys got an activity.
You can hear the big guys in the sky saying, gee, Wiz, what do we have to do with these people?
And I have a paper that is 26 Reasons, radio broadcasts of the weekly show, Idiocy and the Boondocks.
But I think the primary reason for coming here is to make sure that we don't go out until we get our act together.
unidentified
I mean, if you were an alien, would you want these guys out there?
By the way, I'm scanning some electron scanning microscope photographs of implants removed by Dr. Roger Lear.
And I'm sort of doing that in the breaks tonight.
We're going to get those up on the website tomorrow.
Actual implants removed by a physician.
We'll be talking with Dr. Lear later in the week.
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All right, back now to Stan.
Somebody wants me to ask you about time travel, Stan.
Yeah, in quotes, physics, if you get close to the speed of light, time slows down for you movements.
You've aged, you know, 800 years, why you've just aged a year and a half, depending on how close to the speed of light you go.
So you've traveled with your physicist working on far-out astrophysics, wormholes, anybody who saw contact, being far better than I expected having read the book.
Well, I'd read the book, and I didn't like the book.
There were too many pot shots at UFOs in it, typical Carl Sagan.
But I really enjoyed it.
And I was surprised.
I didn't anticipate that.
You know, it was one of those things I had to do because everybody would be asking me about.
And I loved it.
And so my daughter liked it, too, as a matter of fact.
So what the heck to each his own, I guess.
But yeah, time travel, you know, it's not something you and I are going to be doing within our lifespans, I don't believe, for the sake of that.
And certainly we'll cut the time to go large distances down.
But, you know, one of the things that bugs me is how the noisy negativists, as I call them, start talking about interstellar travel without really thinking about it.
They'll talk about, look, how long it's going to take to get to the next galaxy.
Frankly, I don't care about the next galaxy.
I like the local neighborhood.
Next galaxy is a million light years away.
How about 1,000 stars within 54 light years of here?
You know, different kind of problem, in other words.
It's at the...
To go 37 light years, the distance to Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 reticuli, the stars that come out of the Betty Hill star map, another good abduction case.
But at 99.99% of the speed of light, you can go 37 light years once pilot time.
Now, we've had astronauts, others have had astronauts in space for longer than six months.
You know, not such a big deal.
So that sort of puts a lot of neighborhood within reach, doesn't it?
So the point is that there are so many sightings going on all the time.
What is really the difficulty?
We're dealing with the PR problem, and I know the UPN show illustrated that, but most people don't report their sightings.
And the more respectable the individual, the less likely to report their sightings.
And all the good reporting detection systems, I better say, their data is born classified.
The good radar networks, the good spy satellites looking down, we tend to forget that they're looking down.
If a saucer goes by, they'd see it.
They won't tell you about it, though.
So there's a lot more going on than we hear about.
And until we unleash the powers of truth, and I don't know where to find them, we're going to be ignorant.
And it bothers me, you know, again, in the UPN angle.
The New York Times, three and a half years back, they read an article about the Project Mogul stuff, you know, left-hand best position you can get in an American newspaper, because when they stack up those Sunday papers, you know, that's what you see.
They just bought the Air Force explanation of Project Mogul hook, Line, and Sinker.
And not only was it on the front page of the New York Times, which is, after all, sold all around the country, but the Cleveland Plain Dealer and a whole bunch of other papers picked up on it from the New York Times Service.
I didn't hear any screams of protest about that.
You know, that's a respectable publication.
The writer has a Pulitzer Prize, and he did no research to check if it.
Izzy, if you'll check my website, there's a full listing of radio stations.
unidentified
I have a computer, so I guess I'll have to call my own radio station here locally.
And I remember listening to a broadcast ears, oh, about maybe three weeks ago, and he had predicted a date for a 7.4 somewhere, it was either east or west of Riverside County on an east-west fault line magnitude earthquake.
Staunton, I'm not only a UFO buff myself, but as a matter of fact, I have the distinct honor at Karen County Junior College.
Yeah.
Okay?
Yeah.
Now, when this UPN deal, I think I'm speaking for many people when I put it like this.
I heard about this thing coming on.
They're supposed to have this home videotape.
Oh, I'm all lathered up.
You know, I'm thinking, boy, this is going to be better than Barney and Betty Hill.
So I get my tape in there, and the night shows up, and I start taping the thing here.
And I almost killed the tape.
I let it run, and then when you came on there, now I think my reaction is going to be about the same as anybody that knows you and of your credibility.
I'm sitting here asking myself, how in the you know what, did they manage to get Staunton Friedman on there to say that?
So they didn't fool me, and I don't think that, as a matter of fact, I almost called them.
Well, the answer is they got him to say it by not showing them the program and just doing a general interview, asking then integrated those comments into the show.
And, you know, I'm hoping that we can do something about the upcoming show to at least change the advertising or put in some kind of a disclaimer for people to take advantage of the public's interest and then foist off something that isn't what people think it is.
El Niño, strongest on record, will now, they say, last through mid-1998.
El Nino, the warm water phenomenon that helped make 1997 the hottest year on record, will continue to wreak havoc until the middle of this year, according to UN climate experts.
Okay, I'm going to Minneapolis, indeed, on the 18th, and I'll spend about four days there.
Then it looks like I'll be going down to Madison, Wisconsin.
The American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics section has to go to just west of Madison on the 24th, it looks like.
That got confirmation.
And nothing scheduled in Minneapolis.
If I do something while I'm there, we may film it.
You know, I don't know.
I travel a great deal.
I've spoken at 600 colleges and 100 professional groups, so I get around.
Babazar, he comes across very well on television, tells a great story.
There is no substantiation for any degrees, although he claims master's degree in physics from MIT and another one from Caltech.
He claims he was a scientist working for Los Alamos.
He wasn't.
MIT and Caltech never heard of him.
Pierce Jr.
He is misrepresenting his background.
His Element 115 scheme won't work.
Call it, you know, I'm tempted to say a harmless con man, but he certainly has influenced a lot of people, so maybe harmless is the wrong word.
His videos sell around the world.
I was showing them in Holland when I was Over there, would you believe?
And people believed it because there it is, and he sounds very convincing.
So it's a distraction.
Yeah, there is an Area 51, and yeah, interesting things are going on out there.
But I would bet 100 to 1 he wasn't like engineering flying saucers out there.
He isn't a scientist.
Teller would not have recommended him for a job, et cetera, et cetera.
Yeah, the phone directory, I'm glad you brought that up, says very clearly after his name, K slash M. If you look at the top of the page, it said this is a telephone directory for employees of Los Alamos National Department of Energy, of Kirk Meyer Corporate, and a couple of other companies.
No question, he worked for Kirkmeyer.
That's what the K-slash-M means.
They were stuck out at only big mason accelerator facility.
Clinton D. Anderson is a long name for the facility.
From Mexico City, a strong earthquake shook Mexico's southern Pacific coast Monday evening, panicking all towns.
No immediate report of injury.
Mexico's National Seismological Service put the preliminary magnitude at 6.4, strong enough to cause severe damage.
It was followed by three aftershocks about 15 minutes apart.
The shaking began about 9.06 p.m., lasted about one minute, jolted residents for hundreds of miles up and down the coast, rattling the resort city of Al Capulco, sending ripples that were felt as far as Mexico City, 315 miles to the north.
The state civil protection agency and the Red Cross said there were no immediate reports of casualties.
6.4 earthquake is pretty big.
My guest is Stan Friedman, if you know he's got one.
All you need to do is send a number 10 envelope to him, and he will return the materials to you free of charge.
Send it to Stan Friedman, P.O. Box 958 in Holton, H-O-U-L-T-O-N, Maine, up where the ice gathers.
Zip code 04730-9-0958.
Let me try that again.
Sam Friedman, P.O. Box 958, Holton, Maine, 04730-0958.
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You know, during the breaks here, I have been scanning, Stan, from Dr. Roger Lear, electron scanning microscope photographs of implants taken out of people.
The Internet, it bothers me something because it's in print or on television.
And it seems to me, you know, there are things called libraries where you can do in-depth investigation.
There are things called journals where, you know, communicate cheaply and certainly better than the post office if the other person happens to have a computer.
But I noticed that one of the things that bothers me is I get stuff, I don't know who it's from, you know, no address, no phone number, no background, no stationery.
That kind of bothers me.
I'd like to know, and I'd like more delay communication if somebody wants to call me, you know.
But because the Internet is cheap, you know, you pay a certain fee, period, I get stuff that isn't well thought out.
And because my email address is in my book, Top Secret Magic, I'm much more thoughtful than the stuff I get on the Internet.
Yeah, I've been watching the reports about the Bay Area, and it's calling for really heavy rain, it looks like, throughout the rest of the week, nearly as I can tell.
And six inches of ice enough to knock down, to overwhelm this, what do you call it, just metal strips and building a big tower and the lines go across?
What I said was that it was obvious that Stan's comments were not directly relevant to what we were seeing, so he had to have made them in the blind, and they had to have been patched in.
Well, depending on where they are, I'd have them contact John Carpenter for three, the MUFON Abductions Coordinator, and he knows most of the people around the country who are involved in good abduction research.
And yeah, I put the party that contacts me in touch with somebody who knows where to find the right people and let them go at it.
And that works.
I talked to somebody in New Mexico.
She had called me.
She was obviously upset and distressed.
And I talked to her for quite some time and then replaced with what happened.
So I'm not going to stand up and say, hey, I do hypnotherapy or anything like that.
As a matter of fact, the two of them came up here to Fredericton, New Brunswick to speak at the University of New Brunswick last year after a conference we were both at in New Hampshire.
Yeah, I was going to say, anybody who thinks that that case has been explained away by Philip Klass or Kevin Randall in his new book, The Randall Report, ought to read Travis' book.
And one of the problems here is we have this cultural stereotyping, if you will.
Gee, Travis Walton used to cut down trees near a town called Snowflake, Arizona.
Obviously, a country bumpkin.
Well, you don't need to spend many minutes with Travis to know he's not a country bumpkin.
He's a very bright guy, very sharp guy, a very decent guy.
So I am very much satisfied that indeed, of course IPRO, Jim Lorenzen is dead.
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Well, the two money things were one, what I just talked about, that he challenged me on the Tai Declaration Library.
They had 250,000 pages of National Security Council material.
He had nine stages typical of the intellectual bankruptcy of the pseudoscience of anti-ufology.
Now, many years ago, I took him up.
He made what sounded like a reasonable offer.
You put up $100 a year, and he'll guarantee you for 10 years $10,000 if the president says flying saucers are real.
Well, there were other kickers, and I made him modify them, and much to his surprise, I took him up on the Lou Gordon television show out of Detroit way back when.
And I paid my $100 each year.
It was worth it to look on his face, and I pulled the money out of my pocket.
Those are the only two real financial things.
He's made other crazy offers, and usually he has so many kickers, nobody would take him up, but he got careless on the typeface one.
But he paid off.
Now, the interesting thing is he sent copies of his challenge all over the place, but apparently told very few people about paying me off.
I consider Phil one of the top propagandists of the second half of the century because not only was he successful in keeping the press away from the subject, after all, he works for Aviation Week.
And, you know, if there was anything going on, they would know about it, is kind of the attitude.
But through his work with SICCOP, the self-anointed committee for the scientific investigation of claims of the paranormal, he kept a lot of scientists away.
Carl Sagan didn't do any research on UFOs.
He depended on Phil.
So his impact has been much greater than he's given credit for.
I may not approve, but I have to admit that he's had a powerful impact.
Okay, they'll get a five-page single space review of case closed, you know, the Roswell report case closed, where I detail what's wrong with this government report by Air Force Captain McAndrew.
They'll get a list, a one-pager of radio specials, as I call them, special prices on order bike, on my CD-ROM, on my two books, on two videos.
You know, radio people are deserving of something for taking the trouble.
And the other one is a two-pager, both sides of a sheet, which lists about 25 different items.
A lot of my papers, the smaller papers, things like Flying Saucers and Physics, or that's 20 pages, or the Zeta Reticuli Incident, the StarMap work that tells us where some aliens originate, or my four scientific papers,
which includes science fiction, science, and UFOs, and a scientific approach to UFO behavior, and Roswell Revisited, and update on the Roswell story, And Crash Saucers, Majestic 12, and the Debunkers, a lot of other miscellaneous papers that you won't find anyplace else.
Well, it's a fascinating and rather involved story.
Dennis was, the museum was contacted by somebody in Oklahoma claiming that his father had picked up a piece of wreckage from Roswell, and he just heard about it and wanted to do something with it.
So Dennis went over there, and he made phone calls back and forth.
And then he went over there, and the people he was supposed to meet didn't show up.
And then he was met by two people who said they were Air Force OSI people, and that the phones at the museum were being tapped, and they were working with the guy who had the wreckage.
And tough luck, buddy.
And then there's a follow-up story to that, incidentally.
I've been trying to help him do more work on locating who was at the other end.
It was supposedly a lawyer, you see, because there's nobody by that name listed.
And he called the number he had called back then, and a woman answered, and he felt it was a woman that had one of the two people that had met him at a restaurant there.
And when he's talking to her, and he's trying to pin her down, suddenly a man's voice comes on the phone who kind of threatens him to keep his nose out of all this stuff.
No, they're lying about their credentials, is my concern.
unidentified
My question is, how do you see the infighting that seems to be so prevalent in the UFO researcher community?
Isn't it becoming so much more of a detraction that it seems that nobody can actually get anywhere because everybody's always telling, talking about everybody else being, well, he's not really telling the truth, et cetera, et cetera.
She generally is hesitant to do it publicly, but in cases where people have claimed degrees, claimed educational backgrounds that don't exist, she has identified them.
Well, it seems to me that I have a responsibility if I'm going to be a professional person going on shows like yours, that if I'm going to stand behind somebody, I better have a basis for doing it.
And, you know, I don't know why other people don't call universities and Don't check on credentials.
It's too much trouble, I guess.
But I have to know whether I'm answering people ask me about Lazar.
For example, he's supposed to be a nuclear physicist.
I'm a nuclear physicist.
What do I think about him?
Well, I have to do some checking first.
You know, otherwise I'd say he's in my grey basket.
I don't know, and go on from there.
Well, I did do the checking.
He doesn't check out.
And you've seen all this fuss about Michael Wolf.
Well, I did a lot of checking.
I spent a lot of time and money.
So when somebody tells me, oh, he's okay, I say, where's the evidence?
If a guy says he's a doctor, he should have a doctor's license.
Now, I have no familiarity or love or hate for Bob Lazar, but in some of the comments that I've heard tonight, I look at a situation that I have been in, and I see some question marks that pop up very regularly.
I used to work in government security on the East Coast in the early 50s.
I transferred out to the West Coast on my own, went to work for a major multinational corporation, ended up with clearance and ability to get into the San Francisco Mint, the AEC offices in Berkeley, and the Livermore Radiation Labs.
And anybody who's got anything to tell me, and maybe for my fancy documentary for the fall, write me at the address or check information in Holton, in Fredericton, New Brunswick.
Remember, I'm four hours ahead of the West Coast, though.