KT Frankovich recounts two 1992 alien encounters near Lime Grove, Florida, involving gray-like beings with six-digit hands and telepathic messages like "protector of life," while comparing them to the Alien Autopsy film. Richard C. Hoagland, a former NASA advisor, links NASA’s abrupt cancellation of moon/Mars missions—including the Lunar Prospector (Jan 1998)—to suppressed evidence, like the "face on Mars" and Clementine mission data, suggesting a coordinated cover-up tied to Clinton’s State of the Union speech and occult symbolism. Hoagland warns of parallel classified programs using anti-gravity tech, hinting at hidden extraterrestrial artifacts or threats, while Bell acknowledges quarantine-like secrecy before closing. [Automatically generated summary]
Those of you who have actually been abducted by alien beings this night, and we have on the line with us Mr. Carrot, who can see, well, try and give us an idea, if you would, how much you can actually see more than the average human being.
unidentified
Well, it's no longer effective now.
It was just for a short time, about my junior year of high school.
And during that time, could you see, for example, well, I've got to have some reference.
In a lighted room with a 100-watt light bulb, could you go outside where it's dark, and would you see things as well as if it were lit, say, with a 100-watt bulb where you walked?
unidentified
Well, it felt different than that.
I mean, there was definitely a feeling of things being dark.
It's not like everything lit up, but, well, let's say this, in a room with no light, except stray light coming into perhaps even an adjacent room from a street light coming outside.
Any other serious medical effects of any sort, implantation, any of the normal things one would expect with an abuelshan?
unidentified
I have questions about implantations.
I'm not sure.
I've thought perhaps, maybe I have, but I'm not sure on that.
I have had one other strange, well, I've had several, but one of the most interesting ones, I think, was about my second year of college.
I had a dream, we'll say in quotes, and one of those that I kind of knew, you know, through experience that was, you know, it was a mix of both fact and fiction.
I don't know much about that, but in this dream, I was told that there was a little white man about three foot tall, but he was sort of human, but I couldn't quite ever focus on him completely.
And he was telling me that they, whoever, were going to do something to me, and I was going to be able to sleep only like two to four hours a day and be able to function quite well on this.
Something that he said that I feel very strongly about.
a lot of the people that i i think have come forward with abduction stories abduction accounts uh...
are the people who have been most distraught you know the people who are most adversely affected by anything of course the people who are going to Of course, right.
It makes sense.
While I have had, I mean, it is a fearful thing.
There's very uncomfortable issues involved, but the overall feeling is a very healthy one, at least for me.
I get hundreds of faxes, and I don't know what yours was about or who you are, so how could I answer that?
unidentified
Yeah, understandably.
I guess I should have been more specific.
I'm calling from Canada.
With regards to a lady that is a U.S. citizen who told me about an incident when she was a young lady with respect to her father being handed a piece of Roswell leftover.
At any rate, you heard about this American citizen who received some.
unidentified
Yeah, it was quite some time ago.
This lady's in her 60s now, belonging to a well-known family.
For the sake of her privacy, I wouldn't want to mention anything on the air, but she does claim that as far as she's concerned, this piece of the outer skin still exists within the walls of the family's estate.
And I just felt that I should give you a call and relay it.
Listen, I have the facilities to test something like that, to take it to the larger national labs and have them look at it.
And I would do exactly that.
unidentified
What I was going to suggest through my offer of information is that in order to gain some validity to this woman's story is to necessarily check out her background of her American history.
Because if she does belong to the family that she claims she does, her father was a nuclear physicist.
Well, there are people, though, that run away to Canada for reasons, well, for example, during the Vietnam War, a lot of people took off to your country.
unidentified
Yes.
Yes, I've met a few.
We find them in amongst all our little islands here and across the country itself.
And by all means, I'll try and have her send me a sample.
On the other hand, if it is indestructible, if it is one piece, then I have absolutely no idea how they would split it up and get me a little hunk.
I sure would like some of that aluminum foil, though.
Correction, not aluminum foil, but not even necessarily aluminum, but something that looked like aluminum that could not be destroyed and would automatically refold into a smooth rendition of itself.
Well, he's just a, he's been, I've been talking to him through email, and it's interesting the stories that, you know, I say that, like, these people that really do study this stuff and have actually had these experiences, it's really an ex-file's life, black helicopters and people living in their bushes and looking at them at night.
And they said that the imaging opportunity is going to be, and I'm only quoting Mark Carlotto's paper from his website saying that the Mars Global Surveyor should have an imaging opportunity in early March.
Van Flandren, who is in charge of all of this, is running around saying that as far as he is concerned, the odds are tremendous that what is at Sidonia is in fact not natural.
And here we have NASA eliminating, saying we're not going off planet with men anymore.
I mean, like, well, I mean, like something smacking us, like maybe a fragment from Hailbot that's still come in, or one of those weird theories that they're not talking about, you know.
To Florida and an incident that occurred in May of 1992 that has never been told, never been told on the radio before, called the Lime Grove Encounter in South Aid, Florida.
On this particular afternoon, I had already walked two of them.
It was getting towards sunset.
And I went back and got the two most aggressive ones of the pack.
They were both males, both weighing approximately 100 pounds.
Put them both on leashes, walked into the grove, and I walked through a clearing so that I could get to the other side of the grove, which meant that I was bordered by woods from the back property of Metrazoo and this very thick grove which nobody could see us.
As I walked through this clearing, I turned left, which we would have been heading towards southwest 152nd Street, and that was probably a mile down the grove from where we were.
I heard what sounded like someone chopping huge branches with an axe, you know, breaking them.
And it sounded as if it were right on top of me, which was very startling because, as I said, I never saw anyone in the grove.
I stopped and I realized that neither one of the dogs were behaving correctly.
What were they doing?
They totally ignored the sound.
There was no indication that anyone was around.
I was very quiet.
They stood quietly.
And again, we heard this, or I heard this, chop.
And it was right on top of me.
So I turned and I looked through three rows of trees.
Now, if you've ever been in a grove, there's a row of trees, and there's about 10 feet where they can mow the grass, and then there's another row of trees.
If you think of a tight T-shirt, tight-fitting T-shirt, but not made out of cloth, it was clingy, like you think of these aerobic pants that people wear.
Artificial in the sense that, as in a manufactured or constructed half-biological being or something, a lot of people have said that, or the graves, that they almost look manufactured.
So this is what you're fighting mentally, the whole time you are in the presence of them.
You are fighting something that you have never, ever seen, you cannot identify, and you have no point of reference.
When we stared at each other for several minutes, he moved his head slightly, not his body, just his head, leaned it over so that it was behind the tree.
They're not really moving their bodies through the air.
They're floating them through the air.
That's right.
And that's how this creature appeared to move, even though he had more control over his body than what you would think our astronauts in space do.
As I said, he began to run, and when he would touch the ground and sprint up, I would say it was a good four feet up in the air, he would go very easily, come down, just touch the ground, and right back up again.
I ran parallel to him.
In other words, he's running down this row, this grassy area between the rows of trees, and I'm running parallel to him.
I never took my eyes off of him.
It's a good thing there were no telephone poles in the grove because I would have crashed right into them.
We ran neck to neck, and I would say for a distance of a good, well, if you figure six city blocks, I mean, we ran neck to neck.
At one point, there was an area, I would say, of about 50 yards, 25 to 50 yards, where the lime trees, these dying lime trees, had fallen over on the ground.
So there was absolutely nothing obstructing my view of him.
And we ran that distance neck to neck, my eyes glued to him the whole time.
At the end of this clearing, the lime trees began again.
And in Florida, we have these vines that grow in the wild, and they will quickly cover a tree, an entire tree, and then reach over and start covering other trees and plants.
There was an area of these vines growing, and they had grown so thick that it actually formed like a tunnel between two rows of these dying trees.
Now, I could see this tunnel coming up in my peripheral vision as we were running.
He darted right into that.
The moment he reached that tunnel, I literally ran into a wall of stench.
The smell was a combination of two smells.
It was a combination of sulfuric acid and formaldehyde.
And it was so pungent that it did burn the inside lining of my nose.
It was like someone broke open smelling salts and put them underneath my nose suddenly.
I mean, it was unbelievable.
The moment I hit that wall, a stench, it literally knocked me to my senses.
And yet it is the most phenomenal thing that has just happened.
I paced around the apartment for a few minutes, and I have a friend that I had met several years before.
Her name is Linda.
And I remembered that at one point, Linda had told me, this was many years ago, she and her husband had been driving late one night in a region not too far from Gulf Breeze.
They spotted a UFO, which came directly over their car.
Their car stopped.
They were paralyzed with fear.
A beam of light came down, and then there is something like three and a half to four hours missing time.
I remembered that she had told me this in confidence, and at the time I was fascinated with it, but it never went any further than that.
I sure didn't want to blow years of credibility as a wildlife writer.
So I called this individual, and we were on the phone for quite a while that night going over it and over, and she had no problem whatsoever believing it.
I mean, you are so descriptive about the creature, both the creatures, that it seems to me you could sit down with an artist and come up with a rendition of what you saw.
She watched this creature with six digits on each hand, and then she got up and actually ran with it until she reached a kind of covering and ran into a completely unbearable smell.
Now, that's not a fair description for those of you who have just joined the show.
It's inadequate.
She describes this creature in great detail.
In fact, the audience is reacting very favorably.
Art fascinating.
Your guest is reacting positively as I monitor with a voice stress indicator.
I detect some modest anxiety, appropriate, which may or may not be recognized overtly.
And just generally, as I go through the facts, is people believe you, Katie.
Let me just finish this second encounter very quickly that I'm going to the government agents because there's something here that has always fascinated me about this.
While we had our hands up in the air, I perceived through telepathy very strong over and over again the words protector of life.
And it was in English, protector of life.
Protector of life.
And I understood that this was how they regarded me.
This was said over and over again.
I understood that this would be like my name.
You call me KT, but this would be the way they identified me.
What happened within, I would say, two days, I was in that grove again, and I looked up and saw this black government car coming towards me, which startled me because I wasn't used to seeing people in the grove.
There were two men in the car.
They were dressed in business suits.
They pulled up right next to me.
Of course, I had the dogs with me.
And they rolled down the window, and the first question out of their mouth was, have you ever seen anything strange in this grove?
And I said, I played dumb.
I said, what do you mean strange?
I saw a wild goose here one time.
And they said, no, you wouldn't know what we meant.
You would absolutely know what we meant.
Now, they tried very hard to get me to tell them if I had ever seen anything.
They asked my name.
They took my phone number.
They gave me their business card.
And on this card, it had a telephone number.
They put their Bieber number on it, instructed me to call them any time of day or night.
And in the right-hand corner of this card was a raised emblem of the White House, but that emblem was in gold.
In other words, the White House was gold.
Right.
There wasn't anything on the card to indicate which branch of government they were from, but they did introduce themselves as government agents.
Well, your powers of observation are very acute indeed.
And your story seems probably one of the most detailed I've ever heard.
What I would love to have from you, if it's possible, is perhaps some of the drawings that you have done, some artist rendition of all of this that we might get up on the website for everybody to see.
And I just wanted to say, Aaron, I'm very glad that I was able to break the story on your show, done in a very professional manner, because it is very true and very real indeed.
That's Katie Frankovich, Katie Frankovich, and it is the most detailed, a careful description of an encounter with somebody, something from elsewhere that I think I've ever heard.
That along with Travis Walton and Betty and Barney Hill and others of the same ilk.
Absolutely remarkable.
Plans to eliminate all manned missions to the moon and Mars.
This is a remarkable development.
I was sent this Gannett News Service story by Richard C. Hoagland, who we now have on the telephone from New Mexico, from KLB country in New Mexico, Albuquerque.
And I just, I cannot fathom in my wildest dreams how this could possibly, possibly be.
Now, recall that Tom Van Vlanderen, who has always been very cautious in his pronouncements regarding Sidonia,
who is responsible for much of the imaging that's coming up, is preparing America, preparing the world for the fact that the things at Sidonia, the artifacts at Sidonia, the face on Mars, is not a natural item.
It seems like the very last time you would announce that you are not going to send men to Mars.
And yet, in this Gannett News Service article, it's very clear that we have decided suddenly, at exactly this very strange time in our history, to not leave the planet.
It's almost as though we have been prohibited from leaving our planet's atmosphere, or at least certainly touching down on any other body, the moon, Mars, whatever.
Some sort of prime directive at work.
I don't know, in reverse, perhaps.
Here is an Ingstrom Science Award winner, a one-time advisor to Walter Cronkite, Daddy, and NASA, Richard C. Hoagland.
Richard, welcome to the program here at the bottom of the hour.
Well, it's even more astounding because there was a secret meeting at NASA headquarters last November 24th, and that's why Tom is making these very bold pronouncements.
Well, you know, this is such a Complex political situation.
We have the State of the Union tonight.
I have talked with David Oates a few minutes ago.
I actually woke him up after you called me and wanted me to do something on this issue.
And the very last statement that Clinton made at the end of the speech has a remarkable reference to NASA in the most amazing context.
And as you obviously are aware, David is working on it tomorrow and should probably have the entire speech done sometime in the next day or so.
And I would strongly recommend that we do something together on this because it's looking more and more like we have two realities here.
We have the reality that we're seeing on CNN and in the joint House-Senate State of the Union address.
And then we have the real reality behind the scenes that everybody in the know knows about except us, the American people, who should know.
And this release from NASA, which was run by Gannett today, based on a letter issued by the acting administrator of NASA for spaceflight on January 9th, is just another data point that the fix is in.
The human race is effectively quarantined.
And my model for what's going on is that we've had for many, many years, 30 years, Art, we've had the in-crowd, the deep level at NASA that knew these secrets and then everybody else who didn't.
And how can you possibly have an agency where a tiny group of people know crucial things and the rest don't?
The answer is control of information, control of data.
If you control the data and you only give the 20 or 30,000 honest people free digested PAP, the things that you want them to know, and keep all the good stuff in the deep bio cabinets and behind the double steel lock doors marked top secret burn before reading, obviously you can go on with the charade for a long time.
But what's happening now, because, and I really have to take some credit here for Enterprise doing this, you know, appearing at Ohio State, being invited to the UN, doing briefings at NASA centers, we have, for the last, you know, several years since 1988, been invited in the NASA front door, you know, five times officially.
And it wasn't just to jump out of a cake and yell boo.
I mean, these people wanted to know what we, as an independent investigation, have been finding out.
Well, obviously, what's happening is that the honest guys began to suspect that they weren't getting the whole truth.
So, of course, instead of leveling with the American people, what they have been doing quietly since 88 is building their own programs to go and verify what people like us, you know, independent investigations, have been claiming.
And in the last several years, under Dan Golden, we've had faster, better, cheaper, smarter, quicker, meaner, I mean, you know, that whole litany, right?
And those missions have now been going places and sending back data to the honest crowd, the middle of the curve.
And we've had several missions now that have, you know, sent back some pretty amazing things.
Pathfinder this past summer, we've had several programs on your show dealing with what Pathfinder really has found versus what NASA claims officially has found.
And on January 9th, this quick $63 million, you know, from nowhere sudden prospector mission to the moon, this unmanned mission, this hat box spacecraft, reached the moon on January 9th.
Within hours of it reaching there, this letter is fired out to all setters, and I will quote it because it's pretty amazing.
I am directing the setters, effective immediately, to issue termination notices for all contractual vehicles associated with beyond Earth orbit activities such as human, lunar, or Mars exploration.
Tom, I'm glad you brought that up because you slightly misspoke a few minutes ago.
Tom is not officially connected with NASA.
Tom was the former head of the Celestial Mechanics Branch for the U.S. Naval Observatory.
He participated in many important projects, most significant of which was the search for Planet X, the planet beyond Pluto.
And he was indirectly involved with the discovery of the moon, Sharon, that orbits Pluto by Christie back in 1978.
He has left the government.
Tom runs a private research think tank called the Meta Research Foundation in Washington, D.C. Tom has been doing independent studies as part of this loose confederation of scientists that have been looking at this data for many years now, particularly in terms of Mars.
And his claim to fame, as you know, because of the programs we have done, has been his independent model that we live in a solar system where there has been major structural change, planets blown to kingdom-come by immense, vast forces in geologic time.
And that Mars is, in fact, the moon.
Not a planet in its own right, but the remnant moon that formerly orbited a gas giant planet that currently, I'm sorry, that used to exist where Mars currently orbits.
And the elliptical nature of the Mars orbit is a remnant of the celestial mechanics of its primary going away and Mars being kind of left without a dance partner to sail around the sun.
Tom has been extremely conservative, given his government background, given his Ph.D., given his Yale history of education and all that, in terms of the Sidonia hypothesis, in terms of our work on Mars and on the Moon,
up until this meeting a few days ago of the American Astronomical Association, where based on his own work and collaborations, I mean, we had many conversations, he has suddenly been emboldened to basically stand in front of this prestigious group of astronomers,
his colleagues, and declare that from his analysis, obviously building on the work of others, there is a more than 50-50 chance, probably 90-10, that the face on Mars and the surrounding things are artificial.
Well, the reason, well, let's leave me out of the equation for a minute.
Let me tell you what has emboldened Tom and why, unfortunately, I think Dr. Van Flandern's faith in NASA, as well as the other participants in this secret meeting I talked about at the bottom of the hour, has been woefully misplaced, as evidenced by this directive from Richard Wisniewski, acting associate administrator for space flight for NASA headquarters.
Back in November, November 24th, there were four or five people that were invited to a very interesting secret meeting in NASA headquarters.
The meeting was held with a gentleman named Carl Pilker, who is the acting director of the Solar System Exploration Committee for NASA.
This is the committee, high-level NASA committee that basically runs all of spaceflight looking into planetary studies all over the solar system.
You know, the near spacecraft which is going to Eros, the Prospector mission that arrived at the moon, the Pathfinder mission, etc.
He took over from the previous head who died in a very mysterious way last summer, just a couple of days after we had done a show on Pathfinder.
He's written some pretty amazing papers on solar system studies.
He's a first-rate scientist.
And he apparently, at the behest of Stan McDaniel, Mark Carlotto, David Webb, and Vince DiPietro, was convinced to take a meeting with them with a couple members of his staff at headquarters on the afternoon of the 24th of November.
I was conspicuously not invited to the meeting, so I want to put that right on the table, okay?
During this meeting, from sources which have relayed this to us and from things that have been published on the web from Carlado and from Michael Lindemann, apparently what Dr. Pilker said was that he was extremely impressed with the work of McDaniel,
Carlado, and company, that this had lifted this whole subject far out of the realm of the tabloid representations that he had been familiar with, and made him and NASA realize that, oh my God, this is real science.
And that, as a matter of course, they were going to take Dr. McDaniel's suggestion.
Remember, Dr. McDaniel was the chairman of the Department of Philosophy at Sonoma State University.
He wrote a voluminous review of our work and many of the other independent investigators back in 1992-93.
And it was published within days of the disappearance of Mars Observer.
And he has been basically on NASA's case ever since to do it right, to when the replacement spacecraft arrive, to publish orbits, to announce when the Sidonia opportunities would be basically available, to prioritize photographing Sidonia with Dr. Mallon's camera on this spacecraft at high resolution, one meter more or less, and to basically do science as opposed to ignoring the subject.
And Dr. Mallon, who is the principal investigator on the camera, has consistently, both publicly and on his website, which is linked to our website at enterprise mission.com, through your website at artbell.com, has said that he's totally uninterested in Sidonia.
It's all a trick of light and shadow.
The face is not there.
The geometry is not there.
It's not science.
It's a bunch of us voodoo priests making weird noises in the dark, and he's doing science.
This meeting in November basically claimed to have repudiated Dr. Malin's position.
Carl Pilker said to these four or five people, we don't agree with Dr. Malin.
We, in fact, intend to follow you, Dr. McDaniel's prescription, and we're going to take photographs of Sidonia on every opportunity.
We're going to publicize this.
We're going to put them on the web basically live.
And we're going to do everything that you have wanted us to do.
And, of course, you can imagine these guys jumping up and down.
What was really surprising given NASA's postponement of the official mapping mission for a full year, remember, the spacecraft arrived last September, September 11th, when we did our Pasadena conference.
It was aerobraking very nicely, and then something went wrong, and they had to slow down the rate of aerobraking dramatically because of this one solar panel that flexes dangerously past the limits.
This is kind of mysterious, and you can get into all kinds of reasons, but that's kind of a technical, so we don't need to go there tonight.
The point is that instead of arriving in the mapping orbit in March of this year, March of 1998, NASA announced a few months ago that it would take another year to get into the right orbit, March of 1999.
So one of the surprises, one of the shocking surprises of this secret meeting, and it was secret because it was very closely held by all the participants, including NASA, was that they would be in a position to begin to do mapping in this still very elliptical orbit as the spacecraft dips down to about 150 miles above Mars at the low point.
The orbital dynamics will bring that orbit into position to photograph Sidonia beginning in early March of this year.
Now, obviously, hearing all of this from my sources, and I've had, you know, as Cronkite used to tell us, you know, three sources.
Well, we have three independent sources, so we know the meeting took place, we know the promises were made, and of course I'm very skeptical of the promises because this agency has not got a sterling track record of being, you know, on the level with the American people.
So I'm very skeptical until I hear a crucial point that comes out of this meeting.
Vince DiPietro is in the meeting.
Remember, Vince DiPietro is the partnership with Greg Molinar, the two NASA engineers working for Lockheed, who back in 1979 rediscovered in the files at Goddard the face photograph and began their own independent work.
And I cite voluminously their work in the Monuments of Mars, which is my chronicle of all of this activity going back to the very beginning.
DuPietro is in the meeting.
Carl Pilker apparently turns to Pietro and he says, Vince, he said, by the way, he says, if these new photographs, which we're going to begin in March, confirm what is there, you will get the credit for the discovery.
Now, this piece of information, to me, has an interesting ring to it.
Because for one thing, it's incredibly politic.
The actual discoverer of the face on Mars is a scientist, an astronomer, named Tobias Owen.
Remember, if you read in monuments, it was Toby Owen who was pouring through the, in essence, Polaroids from biking back in that summer of 1976, who found the face on Mars on the floor in the photographs that they were trying to mosaic, and who on that Sunday afternoon exclaimed to Jerry Soffin, oh my God, look at this.
So the fact that Carl Pilker, head of solar system exploration at headquarters, is promising DiPietro that he will get the nod as the discoverer is really kind of interesting from several different perspectives,
not the least of which, of course, is Vince's role in this discussion over the years and his personal reactions against certain other investigators in terms of the long-standing unfolding politics of who's doing what and when, vis-a-vis Sidonia.
and it was this piece of information that frankly made me believe strongly that in fact time it was for real
Needs someone that they can control who politically will sit on the talk shows and on Nightline or whatever, on your show perhaps, and say what the party line is going to be after we've gone past is it real or is it Memorex?
The real war, the real issue, the real interest, of course, is what the heck does it mean?
Who's down there?
Who did it?
How long did they live there?
Did they come to Earth?
All those questions, which I discuss at great length in monuments and do some speculating at the end of the book.
Those are the questions that NASA needs to totally control the dialogue on if it's going to move to the next level in this interesting political game.
Van Flandren's New Courage and everything else taken into consideration, no matter whose discovery it is.
How likely is it, in your opinion now, Richard, that these objects, the face, the other objects in the Sidonia region are simply not natural, were put there by somebody from somewhere?
There's no doubt in my mind that we're dealing with an artificial complex, and one of the reasons is because of what Pathfinder found.
I mean, Pathfinder landed in the middle of a second city, but that's a whole other discussion.
The point is that I have tried to tell through various sources, these people in that meeting, including Tom, that don't get their hopes up.
That even in promising to Pietro he'd get the nod, there was a part of me which said, wait a minute, this is not going down the way the 20 years leading up to it have mandated we should look at this.
And I've tried to caution them not to get their hopes up.
Well, this letter from Mr. Wisnofsky, the acting administrator for spaceflight, effectively quarantining mankind.
Exactly.
It tells me that the fix is in, and what we're going to see in March, if we see anything at all, will be probably fake photographs.
And they've had these people now out on the stump, and the lecture circuit, on the internet, and whatever, basically touting the honesty and the integrity and the scientific verisimilitude of NASA, which of course is part of the shell game.
This is part of the con.
This is part of the lie.
You're dealing with people that think of us, the American people who are paying for it, as somewhere down on the food chain, slightly above the microbes.
And there is a very strong perception tonight on my part that we are being had, that we are not being told the truth, and the president on down on this issue.
And if I needed any confirmation, it came when I woke poor David Oates up out of a sound sleep.
Hang tight, we'll be back to you after the top of the...
Richard, the following facts in.
I share Richard Hoagland's shock over NASA's sudden decision to terminate all activities related to human exploration beyond low Earth orbit.
But please be advised that Richard is wrong about the date on which Lunar Prospector arrived on the moon.
It went into orbit early on the 11th, not the 9th.
My guess is the decision was political, just like the Glenn announcement.
NASA and the White House want to focus our attention on the International Space Station.
When Clinton talked about the, quote, vast ocean of space, end quote, last night, he failed to mention that we have no plan to leave the safe harbor of Earth orbit.
If they confirm the water that Clementine, as far back as 1994, with the bi-static radar experiment, strongly suggested is at the poles, particularly the south pole of the moon, in that deep, deep, dark, forever night crater where it's cold-trapped, then a moon base becomes incredibly easy by current contemporary technological standards.
Even Carl Sagan, on his last nightline appearance, the night, you know, a few nights before Carl died, he sat there on the show with Ted and he said, if there is water, it makes human occupation of the moon much, much easier.
In fact, he even says something else, which was bizarre because it makes no sense at all.
He said it opens up the prospect, albeit small, of life, which makes no sense at all because you're not going to have microbes living on the moon.
The only life that water on the moon would open up would be colonization, the kind of thing that we've been looking at now for several years.
So what was Dr. Sagan trying to say a few days before he left us?
This letter is so antithetical to what NASA's been telling us.
I mean, this $63 million mission is supposed to go there and assay the resources of the moon, not just for science, not just for the lunar selenologists to figure out how the moon got there and how it evolved, but primarily in the minds of a lot of people, at Houston in particular, for moon-based studies.
There are actually ongoing plans that Dr. Golden has set in motion.
And suddenly, if this gentleman is correct, days before they even got there, the rug is yanked out from all those plans because it doesn't matter how much water there is, if you don't have the vehicles in the pipeline, the development of a technology to go and make use of it, it means nothing.
It makes no sense at all unless, as I keep saying, you know, and I sounded like some kind of redundant mantra, the fix is in.
One of the things that I and my colleagues have been working on very quietly behind the scenes, preparing for not only publication on the web, but also for a major show, probably on your program, Art, is to move our attention from Mars back to the moon now that we have Prospector in orbit.
While a lot of people's attention have been focused on Mars, and we have been encouraging that, you know, looking at the Pathfinder pictures, you know, the leaks and all of that, there has been a quiet group of people, part of Enterprise, whose names we will reveal shortly and who I would like to bring on as guests,
who've been doing some stunningly important work, going through the archives, doing the grunt work on the photographs that we began looking at many years ago in NASA's own files.
And they have turned up such astonishingly, incredibly impressive things that we're almost ready for prime time.
And what I wanted to do in the next month or two after we really knew that we have a spacecraft giving us data was to do a show with you and simultaneously with the web laying out what we know is there.
I never imagined that we would be kicking it off, you know, tonight with this announcement in the last couple of days that we have basically decided to stay at the shores, not even venture into the deep ocean, and turn our backs on this idea of going back to the moon.
Well, it's even more bizarre because only a month ago, I mean, this is what?
The evening of the 20th, the morning of the 28th now.
That's right.
A few days ago, about a month ago, in December, just around Christmas, Gene Cernan and Jack Schmidt, astronaut Cernan, who as everyone knows was the commander of Apollo 17, and Jack Schmidt, who was the first and last geologist to ever make it to the moon, Caltech graduate, resident of New Mexico, senator from New Mexico, Hint Hint.
They stood at a press conference in Washington and basically talked about this resurgence of interest in going back to the moon.
And they cited programs like Prospector and the beginning of basing studies and all of this kind of a whole new generation of young scientists and young pups have come up the ranks and are now gnashing at the, you know, with the bit in their teeth to go out there and do what NASA used to do.
And they have all had the rug whipped out from under them.
Remember the wonderful program that Ted did, you know, acknowledging me at the top, and Wes Huntress is sitting there saying, oh, we're going to put these submarines down.
We're going to prowl around this ocean and who knows what we're going to find and, you know, examine the beasties.
And the next day, NASA announced it was canceling the Discover missions being in the pipeline in competition for the limited slots for NASA funding to go to Europa.
Boys and girls, if you don't understand, you know, Doublespeak 101, when the government says one thing and does another, follow what they do, don't follow what they say.
What they say are lies and propaganda.
What they do is actually what's going on.
And what they're doing is canceling NASA.
Now, remember, several months ago, we had some pretty amazing reversals from Doug and Dave.
And, you know, Dave Oates, David Oates, God bless him, is probably a national treasure.
Because without him, we would not have out of their own mouths, in a voluminous stream now, which can be correlated with photographs and memos and a lot of other data, the absolute truth as their subconscious is telling us, despite what their words are saying forward.
And remember one of those peculiar reversals that made no sense at all?
Either it was Savage or Villard who said something about, and I can't remember this because I don't have the web in front of me, they're killing NASA slowly.
A lot of things are making awful sense tonight, Art.
One of the things that I have been asked to tell you and the audience is when I talk with David is that tonight, in the middle of his analysis of the Clinton reversals and the speech, he and Karen got noticed that they are being sued for half a million dollars for the house that was burned out from under them.
Well, they're basically saying that it was their negligence to cause it to get burned out.
And what I told David is, calm down.
We will get you attorneys.
We will put this on our show.
We will let the American people know what bastards these people are because they can't stand the light.
The cockroaches will scramble if the light is shown on them.
And I would hope that, for one thing, Peter Gerston would volunteer his legal services to David and any other attorneys out there that would like to have, you know, maybe the Constitution have one last hurrah before we just all pack it in.
Because obviously David can't afford a half a million dollar lawsuit.
At least within the next couple of months, all right?
There's so many things going on, and we want to do it right.
And obviously now we have to factor in the whole new political spin here, which is on the one hand, NASA's telling folks, oh, we're going to give you the pictures.
On the other hand, they're basically locking us into a prison on this planet.
And again, with David's permission, what he did was he went to the end of the speech and he was dead tired.
And just before he collapsed to get up tomorrow morning and tape Hillary on Good Morning America and to do two Clinton speeches, which are being given in Pennsylvania and in Wisconsin, because obviously we're not getting the truth forward, and maybe we can get it backward.
He did two more reversals at the end of the speech.
Pretty chilling because here's a president supposedly worried about, you know, illicit affairs, and he's actually thinking on a mega scale.
Not to hell with his job or to hell with people or whatever, to hell with the earth.
Which, of course, connects with what we have been tracking from other sources for several months now.
This president knows an awful lot about the big picture and is very good at keeping his counsel, except from David Oates.
By the way, David will not tell you this, but when he reversed Mac McCarty the other day, he did not put this on his website because David is very, frankly, David's pretty humble.
He's on to something extraordinarily important, and David has kept his head and he's kept his cool, and that's why I value him as a researcher, as a colleague, and as a friend.
But McCarty says crystal clear, watch out for David Oates in reverse at yesterday morning's press conference.
Well, now, which means they're watching David Oates.
David is an overworked researcher who desperately needs additional help.
He's doing all this while trying to maintain that business and his therapy, and he is overworked and underloved and overstressed.
So I would recommend we give him at least a couple of days to go through this to make sure it's correct, to not put pressure on him, and it will be there when we're all ready.
All right?
That's my recommendation.
In the part about John Glenn, just before the end of the speech, in reverse, Clinton says again, and he's going to put these up on the web so we can all hear them, your life, see a war, see a war.
And that, of course, connects with what's going on with Saddam Hussein.
And is it bigger than Saddam Hussein?
Remember, we are looking, from enterprise perspective, at the largest imaginable scope here, which is the true history of the human species, remnants of ancient, glorious cultures that are probably human-derived in the rest of the solar system,
on the moon, on Mars, at a government agency which tripped over this 30 years ago, and because of Brookings, didn't know how To tell the rest of us and succeeding administrations, which have gotten deeper and deeper into the miasma of the in-crowd knowing something and the out-crowd knowing nothing.
And now we're at a point where you have to factor in that maybe we're not just looking at ruins, there may actually be guys running around in spacecraft.
And the reason I can say that is because we have NASA videos showing extraordinary activity that is non-Newtonian, is definitely not ice crystals, and we actually have evidence of some kind of, you know, stuff going on upstairs, pyrotechnics, things shooting at other things, which should not be happening.
So when Clinton says to hell with the Earth, the desert will answer, it gave me an awful chill.
Then tonight he says, your life, see a war, see a war.
And then NASA feels lost with it.
What you don't know, but you're about to find out, is that there was a spacecraft, a NASA spacecraft, launched a year ago that came by the Earth a couple days ago on January 23rd at around 10.23 in the morning.
And the reason I did this is because as part of the NASA PR, it was revealed that it was going to encounter the Earth at 10.23 a.m. local time, passing 330 miles.
That's 33.
33 is an important secret society Egyptian number.
There are 33 degrees of masonry, et cetera, et cetera.
Yeah, it's very important to understand that all of this has to be viewed against the context of this political initiative that Steve Bassett and Stephen Greer and I and many others have been attempting in Washington vis-a-vis this White House.
And the model that Bassett has that I have disagreed with privately, you know, in a very, you know, good way.
I mean, people can disagree and respect each other and keep going.
And I keep trying to tell Steve, my dear friend Steve, that it's not a level playing field.
And at some level, Stephen has to believe, in order to be effective in that weird world inside the Beltway in Washington, that it is a level playing field.
That we're dealing with people who are politically naive and don't know the game.
And if you simply educate them, they'll come to the, quote, correct decision.
And so he was taking the lead because of certain developments here on this last-minute effort to get to the president and get to the staff of the White House, as he described last night, a briefing sheet that basically laid out some options for the president to use in tonight's speech that would basically capture the imagination of the country and the world and at least invite potential hearings with all these witnesses on the UFO front and
on the NASA ET artifacts front to come and present their evidence in the next several months.
And I gently kept telling him, Stephen, it ain't going to work because it's not a level playing field.
Well, tonight, I have what I would consider to be compelling proof, David's reversals notwithstanding, that the fix is in.
And it goes back to those lunar charts that we have been developing, the sky charts, the celestial programs from Redshift of this ancient ritual pattern.
Because I ran the pattern for Washington tonight during the speech.
Okay?
Now imagine you're standing in Washington and you're looking south from the Capitol toward the southern part of the sky, and it's clear in Washington and you can see the stars.
The speech started at 9 o'clock, about 9.05, 9.08, right?
At 9.35, Sirius, which is a key participant in this cosmic drama, vis-à-vis the Egyptians, reached 33 degrees elevation above the horizon.
That magic 33 again, okay?
And then as we're moving up toward 10 o'clock, and I'm watching, you know, at 10.04, when he gets to the Saddam Hussein part, basically saying, Sodom, we're going to war.
At that exact moment, literally at 10.04 when he's saying that, in the East, rising is Leo, the lion, the Sphinx, which stands for Mars in the Egyptian cosmology, the god of war.
And Regulus, the king, the heart of the lion, is precisely at 33 degrees.
All of this symbology, and of course, as you know, I asked Zahi Hawass if he thought anything in Egypt was based on this symbology, and he gave me a great big Egyptian no way.
But if you follow how David Oates' work works, when the subject is stressed and is emotionally diswraught, the reversals are more frequent and are clearer because the right-hand side of the brain, in his model, is able to predominate over the more metadymic, logical left-hand side, which, of course, is more controlled.
So it's the stress level that gives you the indication regardless of what's written on the page.
unidentified
Okay, but here's my question.
If you're reversing the speech, then you're reversing.
Well, I take it you're not that familiar with David Oates' work.
unidentified
Every time I go on Art's webpage, I always want to access it, and I'm always listening to him live, and you've got to take live versus research and all that.
Yeah, my other point is that if Bill Clinton, you say, you know, like 33 degrees, and you go on about this, if he can plan this all perfectly, this is kind of funny.
You would think that he could at least plan his thing with Monica Lewinsky a little better and not get caught.
It would be wonderful if we had crystal clear evidence.
But we're living in this world where you have to make reasoned judgments.
I know that our January 5th show, where we basically laid out the case for this administration, interested in this subject matter that was not generally known, confirmed by Webster Hubble's book, confirmed by Stephen Greer briefing the head of the CIA, all right, whether it's real ignorance of the issue or feigned ignorance in an effort of the administration to get out in front, you know, they call it plausible deniability.
That show was, I FedEx copies of that show that we pulled directly off the satellite back to Bassett.
Bassett had copies made.
We papered the hill.
535 copies of your show wound up in every senator and congressman's office, okay?
We know from our sources, Greer's sources and others, that the response from the Art Bell audience, the 20 million people who are listening to us right now, was overwhelming and overwhelmingly positive.
That tens of thousands of faxes and emails hit those committee chairmen all over the hill.
We do not have a read on how many went into the White House, but every indication going into the week before the speech was that if it was going to happen, this was when it's going to happen.
And then in the wee dawn hours of January 20th, which by the way is a crucial date on this ritual Egyptian calendar, it corresponds to 19.5.
And we'll do a show where we actually lay this out in great nauseating detail someday.
But on 19.5, suddenly all hell breaks loose and a two-ton elephant is plunked down in Bill Clinton's lap.
Now we have this morning, actually it was yesterday morning, we have Hillary sitting on NBC saying it is a vast right-wing conspiracy.
She didn't say Republican, she said right-wing.
Well, we will get into that at some other program.
The point is that from the White House itself and from the First Lady, there is indication of what we suspect, which is this was not just an accident.
This was timed to basically jerk this president's chain and say, look, Bill, if you go beyond the edge of the paper, there's going to be all hell to pay.
And I've been watching over the last week the most remarkable shenanigans, up to and including that Dallas Herald story last night that went out there and suddenly is retracted.
It was kind of like, if the president is going to be dumb enough to do this stupid thing and let part of this cat out of the bag, we're going to get you guys home down below the atmosphere quicker than you can say scat because it ain't going to be healthy upstairs.
This is a projection.
This is a model, all right?
12 hours later, yesterday morning, just before the speech, the day of the speech, suddenly Thompson says, well, you know, we pull out a couple of straps and we did this, and, well, you know, the damn thing fits.
The point is that you don't wait until you get them into orbit, and you spend half a billion dollars with the shuttle getting them there, and then suddenly find out that, whoops, we sewed it wrong.
So I interpreted this as a code.
And the reason it was a spacesuit as a code, I mean, they could have used anything, right?
Code words, I'm sure they have code words for emergencies.
Like when you're walking through an airport and you hear someone say, well, Mr. Thompson, please come to the front desk.
The security guys know that Mr. Thompson, of course, means terrorists are all over the damn airport, right?
The reason the spacesuit was a code is because spacesuit is synonymous with safety.
And you need your spacesuit if somebody's going to start shooting.
And why would they start shooting?
Go back and look at the NASA video.
STS-80 and STS-48.
We've got guys doing stuff upstairs that, frankly, is not in anybody's space program that I ever read about.
So, look, the bottom line is we are being lied to, up, down, left, right, and Mr. Clinton is up to his eyebrows in this.
And the Monica Lewinsky thing is one hell of a diversion and something to threaten him with.
And my bet is, my projection is now that he's been a good boy, now that we've simply had vanilla for our State of the Union, and everything is fine, and oh yeah, we threatened Saddam, that you're going to see Ken Starr go back into his kennel, and you're going to see the Paula Jones thing move forward, and the Lewinsky problem will simply melt away.
Well, what you've got here is you've got these tapes between her and I love the way they keep calling Tripp her friend because friends like that, you know, suit.
I have a question.
You've got an obvious Bush operative in Linda Tripp identified, attacked by Bennett, put over in the Pentagon, a hostile person.
You then have a young, well, we'll assume, you know, the public record, a young naive intern who they want to move out of the White House.
It is a huge, sprawling complex with multiple layers and corridors, and you can get lost.
I mean, there are people that have been there 10 years that get lost, all right?
So you send this one person over, you know, after the Vince Foster thing, and then a year or two later, you send this other person, Monica, over, and guess what?
Well, Gannett ran it, I think, in the last couple of days, and one of my excellent sources, who I would, you know, I like acknowledging people, but I would like to preserve this source potentially for other useful tidbits.
So I will not mention them on the air tonight.
But we have a very efficient, very effective, very vigilant team out there, and they funnel important data and intelligence back to us.
And as soon as it came across my fax machine, I zipped it over to Art because I thought he might be interested.
And I was right.
unidentified
Well, you know, like this is quite nerve-wracking for those of us who are hoping for a Mars mission.
Well, remember, guys, I've been telling you you can't trust them.
You must do this ourselves.
We have got to get to the bottom of this, and we're not going to be able to send private missions out there because, remember, if NASA's officially canceling all missions to other places, if a private group was to try to put together a mission, as I discussed some years ago, it would be shot down.
We are quarantined.
This cinches it.
unidentified
Oh.
Well, one begins to feel a little bit like Galileo here.
Is one permitted to say that the fecal material has already struck the rotary air hospital?
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
Not a lot of time to the top tower.
unidentified
Richard, I've got two, one thing I want to say.
The TWA 800, local news ran a story that this Eastwick Airlines, whatever it was, they played the pilot's voices, and he saw a light coming toward him.
Over to the lower right, there is another, there's a face rock, there's another rock, and then there's a miniature which looks exactly like the big one.
There's an awful lot of Russian programming involved in this.
It's really excellent.
It uses the JPL ephemeris for the solar system positions because there's been very close cooperation between the two space programs.
And it's now in its second, you know, marked version, Redshift 2.
It's the Maris Corporation, and they're headquartered in Northern California and the Bay Area.
And that's, you probably can find it on the web.
And in the next break, what I'll do is go downstairs, I'll get the box, and I'll read their website so people can actually go to it and find out how to order the darn thing.
By the way, there are many other programs that are comparable.
The thing that is so stunning about Redshift is it allows you to go to the surface of other planets and do lat-longs on Mars or on the moon, and that's how we got onto this because we simply looked at the landings and launch times for all the manned and unmanned missions to various places.
And you need a program that has that capability, otherwise you're limited to just the Earth.
Yeah, I mean, this whole deal, it seems like a great big disinformation campaign between Clinton and NASA, the moon, the space station, and just everything.
And it seems to me like it's a total subjugation of the United States government, if not the world community.
And that sort of disturbs me.
And I'm wondering what kind of fulcrum or coercion do they have here, and why are they doing it covertly instead of overtly if they got all this power?
Well, that gets us into very deep water in some of the things that Jim Mars was talking about last night.
Look, as you know, I have been extremely reluctant to talk UFOs because, like, you know, we don't do Windows, we don't do UFOs.
I backed into this through the artifacts doorway, through the ruins doorway.
My background was mainstream science, Hayden Planetarium, Walter Cronkite, NASA consultant, you know, squeaky clean, and I used to actually believe these guys.
And when I started looking at these pictures from Mars, from the Viking mission, which I was there, I covered, I was, you know, part of the extraordinary experience the summer of 1976, I really believed that it was on the up and up and that it would be only a matter of time before we knew what's really out there.
And I watched, looking in hindsight now back in time, I watched the most peculiar paradoxes going on around the Viking mission.
I watched NASA people basically chomping at the bit to talk about finding life, and I watched an agency which basically papered over the discoveries of people like Gil Levin, one of the biologists on the three biology experiments on Viking.
When the experiment came up with positive results, NASA did everything to deny the results.
And Levin has written a book which is not quite within my reach, so I can't read you the title, but it's published by North Atlantic Books, my publisher.
And it's basically the inside story of the discovery of microbial life on Mars that the agency at 76 refused to acknowledge.
Now, you begin to look at this and you say to yourself, wait a minute, what's wrong with this picture?
Why have we got lip service, but when it comes down to the nitty-gritty, an agency never does the logical thing?
I mean, people have said to me for years, look, Hoagland, if you and those other guys are right, if there's a face on Mars and ruins and cities and all that, heck, this would be a gold card for NASA.
They would be able to go to the Congress and get bushel baskets of money.
And of course, because they could do that, if it's there, they would be doing it.
And since they're not doing it, it can't be there.
Which is kind of weird reasoning because it assumes that the reality you see on CNN is reality.
It assumes that the logic of the level playing field is, in fact, the real logic of this weird game.
And it's been 15 years now since I first started down this trail.
And even without the benefit of David Oates, I have found, much to my awful, awful disappointment, that the honest folks in NASA are being manipulated along with everybody else by the handful that know the game is rigged, that know that the fix is in, that know that we're not free agents, we are not free, we are under some kind of mandate.
and for one breathtaking moment it looked like Bill Clinton was going to kick over the traces.
Given that Bill was a nice boy tonight, and given that his jaw muscles were working overtime, and given that the reversals, even the couple at the end that David got, are stunning, I can't wait to hear what David does with the rest of that speech and with the two other speeches tomorrow.
The world, you know, the so-called real world, think that everything is hunky-dory except for this little nasty scandal.
And because Bill is so useful if he plays ball, and it would be a whole new game to put Gore in and to...
No, this has to go away because there's too much.
And what I'm trying to do now is to use this computer program to possibly project when the damn war is going to begin.
Given that we now know that they're on the Egyptian calendar, and that's a very long-detailed conversation, which we'll save for another night, we can use the program to predict events here on Earth that are far apart from NASA.
That's the stunning new news tonight.
That speech was given on the same timetable that John Kennedy gave his speech in 1961 on May 25th in the Well of the House when he announced the Apollo program itself.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
Hello.
unidentified
Good morning, Mr. Tom and Reno.
Hi, Tom.
Richard, several months ago when you were on the show, we put forth the question to you about the possibility of Carilion photography being used on some of the stuff that comes into the atmosphere here,
you know, as a possibility of seeing if the Van Flandren model fit, you know, with if that was a large planet, if you could use the Carilion photography on any of that kind of stuff and get any other information?
Well, as I understand it, Carilion photography requires you have a sample in a lab in an electrostatic setup with a photograph, and you're basically looking for unseen emanations beyond the visible spectrum, which are triggered by the process of the sample in the lab, in the experimental setup that you've created.
You can't do Corillian photography with remote sensing.
In other words, you can't look with a gadget at a planet and find out anything beyond the electromagnetic spectrum that we understand.
So that is limited to having a physical sample to work with, to play with.
I heard him in one of the air-to-ground interviews with the astronauts a couple days ago.
unidentified
Right.
On the 5th of January, he was discussing Prospector and the reasons that there are no cameras aboard, stating the reason was because Lunar Orbiter and Apollo had already gotten all the data, and that this mission was prioritized for different reasons.
It seems to me that a $63 million mission should have a damn camera.
At a 60-mile projected orbital altitude, they'd be able to get some remarkable pictures if they go over some of the sites that we've looked at.
And they'd even projected toward the end of the mission going down to about six miles.
This reminds me of when the CIA used to try to predict what the Kremlin was going to do back during the good old days of the Cold War.
The simple answer is that cameras and images really produce tremendous bandwidth problems.
And bandwidth and processing images translates to a lot of money that they don't have.
And the stated objective here was to get the geophysical data from the neutron information, the gamma-ray information, the composition, to look for the water, to look for minerals and unusual distribution of materials on the moon's surface.
And that the camera data that you had from Clementine, the mission, the DOD mission that went up in 94, had given us 2 million images.
So why would you be redundant with a NASA mission which would have another camera to take more images because things don't change on the moon?
I mean, the rate of change on the moon is very, very, very small and has not changed between 94 and 98.
That's the common sense approach, okay?
The more interesting arcane interpretation is that you had a DOD mission, which falls under security and black budgets, with 2 million pictures, all the high-res pictures of which we've never seen.
And with the open NASA mission under the Space Act, which ostensibly is supposed to make it non-classified and available to anybody, you wouldn't put a camera on that because then anybody could look at those pictures and might find things they weren't supposed to find.
So by segregating the two missions, what you do behind closed doors is match the two data sets.
You take the data from Prospector, which shows you where all the good stuff is, the minerals and the composition, and you match it with the secret maps made from the high-risk pictures from Clementine, and the guys in the back room say, Wowie, Zowie, look at that city down there, and look what it's made of, and there's the titanium, and there's where the water is, and there's what, that kind of thing.
Now, we're going to try to do that because what NASA's done on their website up at Ames is to put live data from Prospector, the gamma-ray readouts and the neutron readouts and the reflectometer readouts and all that.
They will not let you download this data.
One of our guys the other day called them or emailed them and said, why don't you allow downloading?
And they said, well, we don't want the public to have too much control over this data.
A bizarre statement from the webmaster at NASA Ames.
But there are ways to do screen capture.
And I would heartily recommend to folks that are listening to us tonight, for God's sake, get a dedicated computer, get a read-write CD-ROM, set up your program so you do a screen capture, and every 20 seconds as this data is coming in from Prospector, download and save the data and then make a copy and send it to us.
Because we don't have the wherewithal, because we're up to our eyebrows on these legal problems.
We don't have the two grand that it would require to do a dedicated system.
That's how we've been backed into a corner.
We're not quite at the half million level mark like poor David tonight, but we're having our own legal problems and we could use some help on this and we ought to diversify and democratize this anyway.
The point of fact is that it's all irrelevant if we've been quarantined.
If NASA really is calling a shuddering halt to any plans to go beyond low Earth orbit with men, then what the heck are we doing up there?
Why is John Glenn going to go up and risk his life?
Why is Bill Clinton painting this expansive picture about a space station which is going to basically go around and around and around and around and do nothing when the solar system beckons and we are basically killing all means of going out there and doing anything beyond what we've been doing for 30 years here at Earth?
This might be low, of course, but I was curious what the meanings on the Mars Rover, the swastika, and the Skull and Crossbones mean, and what's its play in all this?
Well, see, what we need to do is a show where we basically do the politics that we figured out from the Pathfinder.
And I would prefer not to get into that tonight because it's so deep and so complex, and we're in the process of assimilating our data.
We've had people, as you know, in the archives looking at NASA history and the history of what happened after World War II and the formations and the creation of JPL.
And Jim and I are now comparing notes, and we have found that we have come to some stunningly correlating conclusions by completely separate doorways, which is when you know you're on to it.
When independent research comes up with the same answer, but by different means, you know you're on to the process.
So I would prefer to defer, I'm not ducking the question.
It's a critically important question, but it would take us far afield, and we do not have time at 3.27 New Mexico time to get into it in any depth.
Richard, again, with respect to the quarantine, if we have been, in effect, shooting at these things out there, wouldn't that justify an effective quarantine?
Which is on the end of my UN briefing, one of the videos that we offer through our website.
And if we had a serious problem, in other words, we're dealing with hostile aliens, as some have tried to get us to imagine, you'd imagine that it would have been dangerous up there at least beginning in September of 1991.
This is January of 1998.
And as far as I know, every shuttle mission that's gone up has come down in one piece.
There's also, if you look at the STS-80 footage, which, by the way, you have, and I would strongly recommend that when you get some rest tomorrow, you rack it up and you run it down to the end.
You will see something at very high velocity enter the Earth's atmosphere, tangential, meaning going away from the shuttle, 1,500 miles away, moving at roughly 1,000 miles per second, which is the same velocity of the weapons we saw being deployed on STS-48.
Possibly, but remember, this is 1996 in December when we get the STS-80 video, and we get very similar shots that were right aimed at the darn things in 1991.
So it's kind of late in the game to be shooting across the bow.
Remember, what has to be preserved here at all costs is the status quo.
Human beings, Homo sapiens, in the box populi in the democratic mold, cannot be allowed to know that its future and its past are not what it's been told it is.
So it's not that it's dangerous up there in this model.
It's that the knowledge is dangerous.
The information is dangerous.
The way I see it, for the last 30 years, there was a very tiny inner crowd that controlled this information from the lunar orbiters and the surveyors and Project Apollo.
One of those key people who's no longer with us is Gene Shoemaker.
I cannot, absolutely will not believe that Gene was part of the dark side, if you want to put a dark side on this.
But I think that good guys can be spun.
I mean, if you present good guys with an option, that it's either keep your counsel, keep the secrets, or horrible things will befall the human race, most good guys will go along with the cover-up to preserve the human race, right?
But eventually, after 10, 20, 30 years, and nothing bad is happening, maybe some of these good guys get to the point where, hey, wait a minute, we were told this and it's now decades later and this hasn't happened.
And I think we're beginning to see from a lot of sources, Greer and some of our sources and Bassett's activities and others, that the cover-up is falling apart from within.
If that's true, then the next tier, the next level, the guys that thought the game was going one way and are now beginning to find out it's going another way, they would want to get their own information.
So you'd have this second tier of NASA that would basically want to go back and find out for themselves.
They're not going to trust us, right?
I mean, look at all the horrible propaganda directed Against our activities.
But at least we sensitized, if this model is correct, the inner circle so they would go and get the missions funded to go and find out the ground truth.
Well, what's astonishing is that in the heyday of NASA's renaissance, when all the indicators should be that it's up and out and away, suddenly there's this screeching haul.
This tells me, and it should tell any thinking person, that there's something really bizarre going on between the words and the music.
There's a gap here.
And the gap has got to be that the honest folks now, the next tier, has found out, surprise, surprise, there's stuff out there, and we can't tell everybody else.
First time caller line, now you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
Hello.
unidentified
Great.
I'll remain anonymous in Virginia.
Providence had me turn you on my FM stereo at 2.30 in the morning Eastern Standard Time.
And I've been glued to it ever since.
I'm young.
I was introduced to all this Molinar's work about three years ago.
And the way I understand it is that the publishing of that book with Piatri, you'll have to forgive me if I get any of these names wrong, effectively ruined his life.
I don't know if you know what Greg Molinard does these days.
Up until this news story from Gannett came in today, I had at least an optimistic chance that, in fact, now the worm was going to turn and that NASA was going to try in its inimitable fashion to yell, bring us partial disclosure, but control it tightly by nominating DiPietro as their spokesperson.
And, you know, I can live with that because we've got to know.
The problem now is we've got this contradictory piece of data, which basically is, this gentleman says, I am directing the centers effective immediately to issue termination notices for all contractual vehicles associated with beyond Earth orbit activities, such as human, lunar, or Mars exploration.
That is such a scary, fearful tone.
It's like we are ducking down with our tail between our legs.
We're coming home, and we're not going to peep our head out from under this rock until something blows over.
There's three things that I would like you to help me tie together.
My first premise is that we're going to war, possibly, not to get Saddam, but there's underground bases there that we may be after is my main premise, and I wanted to ask you about that.
And then secondly, you've got the prophecies that refer to Babylon, which is Iraq, you know, in the current term.
Yeah, I think your intuition is on to something here.
I am loath to lay out a specific scenario because, frankly, I don't know what the scenario is.
I only know, given the data sets we have, the conversions between our work with the computer, with the archive search, with some of the leaks that we've had from NASA people over the last several months, and David Oates' work on the reversals, which is stunningly correlative, and yet we've done double-blind so that we're not telling each other what we're finding, that it's not as advertised.
And one of the most important things is that Bill Clinton is fully in the loop and fully aware that it's much bigger than anybody would dare imagine.
And all night tonight, as he's giving that speech, his mind is working furiously on things that had no business being in that speech.
And that does not bode well for living things, unfortunately.
Well, it sounds like some of that might be influential in what you're discussing tonight.
Also, another thing about the hostility factor supposedly involved with extraterrestrials.
The fact of the matter is, if you read the book Flying Saucers are Hostel by Brad Steiger and John Weitenauer, also Confrontations by Jacques Vali, people have been and still are being shot by those things.
And even dying from apparently like radiation poisoning effects.
Well, the images coming out of NASA are of a war going on upstairs.
When I heard David or Andy Thomas couldn't fit the Russian space suit, and it was such an absurd excuse after all that money to get there and find the damn suit doesn't fit, I realized that someone was desperately trying to communicate to a lot of people in the NASA loop that there's something really wrong and we're going to kind of wait and see how this falls.
And then it fell in the direction that they wanted, and he could stay.
And it was only a few hours from the warning to the, okay, we fixed it.
We're dealing with codes here.
We're dealing with layers of deception.
We're dealing with security at various layers.
People in the know, people more in the know, people all in the know.
I mean, this is a puzzle palace par excellence.
And the only thing I can say definitively tonight is that I finally resolved in my own mind whether Bill Clinton is a mindless dupe or is in charge and involved and engaged in what's really going on.
And the answer is he's in charge and engaged.
And watch him really closely and let's tape everything that happens because the truth is not only out there, but it's in reverse.
I've seen some anti-gravity vehicles, and I even talked to Tom Bearden about this a little bit last year.
What do you think that possibly they're continuing their exploration with black anti-gravity vehicles and saving their money on the white stuff that the rest of us see?
Basically, yeah, I mean, it's now quite obvious to me anyway that beginning certainly in the last 10 years and probably going back maybe 30 years, that we've had two parallel space programs.
We've had the NASA program with all the visibility and all the fanfare, and then we've had the real program and never the twain shall meet.
And the usefulness of the fake program, the program with rockets, shuttles, and flame and all that, which is primitive compared to electrogravitics, its usefulness is over.
And I go back to David's reversals of Savage and Villard, when if you call those up and look at them on David's website, you'll see these NASA guys were not happy campers.
They're basically talking about the slow destruction of NASA.
And what was the phrase they used?
They kill us slowly, it's awful, or something like that?
I mean, it's, my heart goes out to all these people because they believed in the dream like we all did.
And we've all been used in the service to something which is dark and mysterious and not on the up and up.
And unless we get it out in the light, I mean, we're being manipulated into things here that are going to result in an awful lot of people dying at some point.
I was wondering, the caller at the bottom of the hour mentioned the svastika and the skull and bones.
When your people do independent research, do they go into, and this may sound kind of weird, like occultic documents and things like that and ritual magic and well, a lot of ritual, that's for sure.
You know, my rule of thumb, you know, 15 years ago was I was going to follow this wherever the data led.
And it's gone now politically into pretty arcane and strange places.
And a lot of people are very uncomfortable with following us looking into these dark corners.
And I must say very resolutely that one of the things that we're discovering, which I'm not comfortable with, but I'm going to follow it wherever it leads, is what I call the Nazi connection.
It is there, it is bona fide, it is documentable, and it is correlated with several independent sources.
But because it is such a contentious and potentially explosive subject, I want to be absolutely certain that we can document the things that I want to say.
And so beyond what is on the web, which is the data direct from Mars, and beyond what I have alluded to in the form of occult and ritualistic practices that go back to the most ancient Egyptian cosmology imaginable, and the obvious connections to some of the SS activities at the end of World War II that we found out about, I really don't think tonight, because we can't document it, there's no time, I want to go beyond that.
But art willing, we will in the not-too-distant future.
The interesting thing about Mars, we talked this afternoon, he said, you know, Dick, because I explained to him at some length, you know, the kind of computer way we're doing this, he said, you and I have come to the same conclusion from totally separate directions.
There is so much, not enough time to get into the details.
To answer your question on Apollo, well, Apollo 14, we know, landed within 100 feet of the structures, and I will bet on a stack of Bibles that Ed Mitchell and Alan Shepard physically went and explored in their so-called exploration of Cone Crater.
They actually went inside and brought some very important things home.
Now, the question, of course, that everyone needs to address is, why does Ed Mitchell not remember this?