Uh now, David John Oates is an interesting fellow.
He's an Australian.
He has, you will hear it if you listen carefully, a speech impediment of his own that led him into a kind of a lifelong look into the very nature of speech itself, which led him toward reverse speech, which David contends is the best lie detector essentially ever made.
Well, I'm sitting here speaking to you normally in forward speech right now.
You would be able to take this forward speech of mine and reverse it, and every so often you would find a clear phrase that made sense and was congruent with what was being said forward or belied it as a lie.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it's real and certainly a growing number of people and professionals coming on board every single day.
The basic theory I'm pursuing, for those who haven't heard me before, is simply the fact that language is bi-level, forwards as well as reverse.
It's a natural mental function as the brain is constructing speech sounds.
It's putting them together in such a fashion that we are literally delivering two messages at once, forwards from the conscious mind, which is obviously how you hear everyone speak.
But we are also speaking backwards from the unconscious mind.
Now, these messages are occurring not continuously.
Some people contend they are.
I tend to be a little bit more conservative.
They're occurring with great clarity.
I mean, as clear as I'm talking to you now, at least every 10 or 15 seconds of speech.
So if you actually take a speech and run it in reverse, you'll hear gibberish at first, and then suddenly embedded in the middle of this gibberish is this extremely clear sentence, which, as you said, is normally contextually related.
It relates directly to what's being spoken forwards.
It's grammatically correct.
It has a very unique sound to it.
For that reason, it takes people a while to get used to that.
I mean, most of your listeners who have heard me several times have got their ears well tuned now, but certainly to the newcomer, it has this unusual, etheric, melodious tone that's going to be.
I'll tell you what, David, let us give the audience several clear, yes, I know they've heard it before, examples of reverse speech so that they have some idea, those who are just tuning in, what it is they're about to hear.
One I was recently, I've been on doing a lot of media work on recently is the Patsy Ramsey tapes, the little girl who was murdered in Boulder Coro last year.
They still have not brought any charge forward in this case.
And this is Patsy Ramsey.
She's being interviewed on CNN.
She's saying forward, she feels there's at least two people out there who know who did this crime.
And we will run that now.
unidentified
We feel like there are at least two people on the face of this earth that know who did this.
And that is the killer and someone that that person may have confided in.
And let's just, for the newcomers, let's just show you.
What I'll do is I'll run the whole tape backwards, and you'll actually hear this little bit of gibberish, and then bang, something this very clear phrase amongst the gibberish.
Let's do the very first one I ever played on your program when I very first went on, and that's a famous example of Neil Armstrong, of course, dipping onto the lunar surface.
It's also the very first speech reversal that I ever found in human speech, way back in 1983 when I first began working to this.
This, of course, is the famous Roswell press conference, the one in which poor Colonel Haynes was sent out, like Mike McCurry yesterday to try and say the impossible and make it sound right.
Actually, I've probably got another one on here, too, on this system.
This is these are talking about some of the technological research they've done.
unidentified
I'm sorry, I just don't have any information on that.
All I know is what the Air Force did, and that if you overlay much of their claims and you look at the Air Force scientific research, you can see it's obvious that what we're talking about at Ross was...
Oh, you know, I'm almost not going to say anything.
I've been in a relatively, it's been peaceful now for about a month, but of course I've just gone out with these Clinton reversals just the last day or two, so we may get the heat turned up again.
It's been fairly quiet for a month or so.
I had a, because my house was burned to the ground, as you know, and back in April we had a threat the day beforehand, and then there was a constant plaguing of cars outside the office and office break-ins and then just recently I went public with some TWA reversals and I got a death threat immediately after that.
Now I'm living in a fortress on a hill with barbed wire fencers all around the house and alarms and sensors.
All right, David, listen, we're at the bottom of the hour.
Hold tight.
When we come back, we will reverse the President of the United States.
Moody River, more deadly.
Once again, David John Oates, Mr. Reverse Speech.
David?
Yes, thank you.
Just before we launch into the President, I have one question for you, and I think this is a fairly important question because it's what your critics would charge.
Let's take the speech the president made the other day.
It wasn't really a speech, the news conference or whatever it was in which he denied the affair.
Would it be possible, David, for me, using reverse speech, if I had an agenda and I wanted to show the president to be innocent, could I take the very same material that you are using and extract from it what appeared to be said in reverse that would show the president to be congruent or telling the truth?
Could I, with an agenda, go in there and come up with reversals that would show him to be telling the truth as you might have gone in and found reversals showing him to have lied?
That is why I'm pleased to announce here today that President Clinton and I are proposing, as part of his initiative on rape, the largest single increase in the enforcement of our civil rights laws in nearly two decades.
Okay, now this reversal, this gets into, you can take this reversal two ways.
Either legitimately or metaphorically, this gets into, this is not the actual sexual allegation itself, but it either gets into his emotional state or what he might be planning to do in the future.
unidentified
But all the others, a lot of them were about serious matters.
They just faded away.
I'm not suggesting that they weren't serious.
All I can tell you is I'll do my best to help them get to the bottom of it.
Now, since it's been on the site, I've got several emails about people who have actually seen this as literally referring to the current crisis in Iraq and saying, is he going to divert the attention by doing something to Iraq?
See desert answers.
Maybe that is a way out for him to divert attention.
So there's, you know, I don't really know which way to call it, and this is where you get down to the interpretation side of reverse speech, which still needs, you know, except for the very blatant reversals, but the whole interpretation side still needs some serious looking at.
All right, I think there is some indication that our president feels that oral sex does not constitute the kind of breach that regular intercourse would.
We'll get talking about the White House crisis now moving into really the third day.
The big news, Monica Lewinsky is not going to be deposed by Paula Jones' attorneys today, nor is she going to be deposed in the foreseeable future.
It has been put off by a judge indefinitely.
She was due to take Fifth Amendment anyway.
And I think what's going on, clearly going on, is that Kenneth Starr, Kenneth Starr is trying to dangle in front of her the prospect of immunity, partial immunity, and she wants full immunity.
The only way this whole thing is going to move forward is if she accepts or he offers full immunity and she accepts and decides then to sing.
The contents of that song then will determine whether or not this president remains in office.
If the contents of that song, if the tune is the president had an affair of some sort of sexual type with Monica Lewinsky, oral or otherwise, and there is some indication the president feels that oral sex may not be in the same category somehow as a normally consummated intercourse.
But if that's all that the song contains, then the president remains in office.
If the tune includes the fact that the president asked her to keep quiet or the president asked her to lie, then this will, of course, be the end of the Clinton presidency because he will have committed a crime which is indeed impeachable.
It's an impeachable offense.
So the contents of that song, when it is sung, are what will hang or hold free and continue in office this president.
With us at the moment, David John Oates, who does reverse speech.
Here's a reversal I got from his statement in the White House this morning.
Just one clear one was all I could quote on it.
I need to emphasize I'll be spending all weekend on this.
There'll be a lot more going up on the site by Sunday or Monday.
But clearly what I've gotten so far is very, very damning.
unidentified
And we will give you as many answers as we can as soon as we can at the appropriate time, consistent with our obligation to also cooperate with the investigations.
I had, David, I really had that impression when I watched the president giving his denial.
It did look like he was sort of a sad ball of a person who was rolling inside himself and kind of holding reality at bay and moving into his own sort of personal denial and living inside that ball.
Well, his forward speech yesterday seemed very supportive of the president, suggesting there was no time at which he nor did he have knowledge of the president ever ask anybody to lie.
David John Oates, folks, and there you have What Reversals We Have on the President and Mike McCurry and Company to airtime.
Here's an interesting fact from Corvellis, Oregon Art.
Wasn't all this predicted by Sean David Morton?
A problem with the president?
Gore forced to retire.
Ted Kennedy vice president.
Clinton saying, go ahead, impeach me.
Oh, we all laughed hard when he said it.
Now, well, frankly, I wonder, could this be the beginning of Sean David Morton's prediction?
I've tried to call several times.
I get through occasionally, but our long-distance service cuts us off after X number of rings.
And so I thought I would call that to your attention.
What I want to do, following the bottom of the hour, what I want to do is, again, allow you to debate this issue.
And by that, I mean I want one of you who supports the president and thinks that Ken Starr is just out to get the president.
Maybe somebody who believes the whole idea of a sting operation on the president of the United States regarding sexual matters is wrong, wrong, wrong.
In other words, a supporter of the president.
And then I want somebody else who is a definite detractor of the president and, frankly, is overjoyed that this entire thing is occurring.
There really are many, many people like that out there.
And we will put you on the air together and allow you to debate.
Now, I don't want any faint-of-heart debaters.
I want people who really believe what they are going to debate.
And if during this coming break I can find a couple of you that I think well represent each side, I'll put you both on the air and we will have you debate the issue.
Does that frequently happen that you dream of something and dream of it until the reality arrives and then the dream stops?
unidentified
Oh, yeah, I think it does.
One of the things that when you're attempting to interpret dreams, it's always a good idea to first actually look at the dream as possibly having a literal meaning.
In other words, a friend of mine's father or father-in-law had a dream of his house or his cottage, his cabin, I think it was, falling off of its foundation.
And to me, I thought, well, is there something going on in his life where he feels unstable, that he's losing his foundation?
Is he on the point of retiring or something like that?
What he did is he went outside and looked at the foundation and found out the house was actually about to fall off the foundation into the lake.
Want to know what they think about when you wake up and you can't decide whether you're dreaming, you're having an out-of-body experience, or how can you tell the difference between the two?
And also when you're waking up and you know you're waking, you think you're awake, and you're laying there trying to decide whether your eyes are open or shut because you're seeing these things so clearly.
And then you finally realize your eyes are still shut, but you know they're open, it's real confusing to me in the morning.
Well, I think as far as the out-of-body thing, that's fairly easy to determine.
Basically, all you have to do is try and turn around or to lay down or something.
I mean, because in an out-of-body state, you generally, nothing is solid.
So, like, try and touch something that's solid.
You know, if you're OBE, your hand's going to go through whatever it is or your feet.
You two firmly believe it's possible to go out-of-body.
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
Yes, I think it is.
Rob?
I think out-of-body experiences and lucid dreams are two areas that are very close together, and it's hard to distinguish them sometimes.
But there have been some examples where people have had dreams where they've gone, so-called, out of their body, visiting a friend, seeing something within that house that they didn't know was there,
something new or whatever, and then talking to the person on the phone the next day and mentioning that object and the person verifying that it was there, which seemed to be a verification of the stereotypes.
Well, there seems to be a moment, and I've come to this moment, when you're on the edge of an out-of-body experience, your entire body begins to vibrate.
You make a very loud noise.
And I have never been able to let go.
And I have interviewed people about out-of-body experiences, but I have never been able to let go.
For me, it's too frightening giving up that kind of control.
Absolutely, desperately frightening.
And I jerk myself back from it.
Right.
unidentified
You are on the edge of it, though.
If you would just roll out, sit up, or make the move, you would at least be able to hover about the room maybe a few seconds.
The hardest part, you've already done it, which is to set up the field of vibration.
The hardest part feels like letting go of control enough to do it, and I just can't do it.
I get scared, and I guess I'm kind of a control freak, and so I jerk myself back, and so I have missed the experience, but I've been right to the precipice, right to the very edge.
unidentified
Well, it's a fascinating feel.
It's also interesting that Monroe really, his work was the precursor stuff to all the remote viewing, or to a lot of it.
Now, I've also interviewed most of the remote viewers from the U.S. government program, and they are a remarkable group.
I take it that you all feel that remote viewing is absolutely a real discipline, as real as out-of-body experiences and stuff.
unidentified
Yeah, we participated for a while in Leonard Buchanan's web.
He has that wonderful web page where he does these target sites.
And I recommend anybody who's interested in this stuff to go to his website and to try his targets.
It's very interesting what you come up with.
Rob and I were surprised that we got a number of hits, you know, and just without even once your mind has something to direct itself to, it's remarkably easy to pick up something.
Yeah, it's amazing that he can give you these numbers, and you can go to relate, start getting images just on this number, and that other people are doing the same numbers and getting images that they may not be exactly the same thing, but having.
We are at the top of the dreams book from Fantasies to Nightmares.
What do your dreams mean?
How to remember them?
How they affect your everyday life by Trish and Rob McGregor.
And turning to page 13, it says, you spend about a third of your life asleep.
That means, in a lifespan of 75 years, you sleep the equivalent of 25 years, and yet not until fairly recently did science understand what happens during sleep.
And so it is a really important topic, a third of our lives, right?
I was listening to the McGregors talk about out-of-body experiences, and I think I had something similar to an out-of-body experience, only while I was awake.
I'm not quite sure, and they might be able to help me understand what it was that happened to me.
This happened about a couple of years ago.
I was helping a friend one Saturday morning do some lawn maintenance.
We were cutting grass, and it was fairly mild.
It was in the mid-80s, and it was about 10 o'clock in the morning, and I was up at one house mowing this yard, and he was down at another house mowing the yard, and we had just gotten started.
And all of a sudden, I began to feel kind of funny or just out of whack.
And I continued mowing this person's yard, but yet at the same time, it felt like I was not there mowing the yard.
And I was cutting the grass, and everything looked kind of fuzzy.
It looked like there was some sort of darkness over the area, but yet I could still see the sun and stuff like that.
I kept on mowing the yard.
I finished it up about 20 minutes later, and as soon as I left the area where I was at, everything was like, boom, back to normal.
And the sound of the mower picked up.
I heard all the animals and everything again.
And I kind of felt disoriented after I came out of the area where I was at.
And when I got down to my friend where he was at at the other house mowing, I asked him if he had anything funny happen to him or if he saw anything funny happen to him.
And he said, no, he didn't.
And he asked me what was wrong.
And I said, I just had the strangest experience while I was cutting this one lady's yard.
And I've asked a couple of people about it.
And one person told me I might have had something like an interdimension thing happen to me.
Well, that is what I thought as you were describing it, that it sounded like it was almost like you were at a vortex or an interdimensional portal experience.
Well, now I'll let you know something.
There is just about a mile and a half or so up the road.
Do you think people that are schizophrenic, bipolar, or suffering from attention deficit, hyperactive disorders, or other abnormalities like retardation, et cetera, et cetera, that have extremely realistic dreams and do so consecutively every night can, in effect, make predictions about future events more accurately than your average, normal, Working brain person, and I'll listen off to you.
All right.
My take on this is that a lot of times, my feeling about schizophrenia and bipolar and all this other stuff, I think these are convenient labels that the medical establishment has given because they really don't know what's going on.
Schizophrenics, to me, seem, for instance, I know one young man who has a bipolar.
First he was diagnosed as a schizophrenic and then he was diagnosed as bipolar.
This young man is extremely psychic.
He had a number of very unusual experiences as a kid.
He went to a particular school where his psychic abilities were used, should I say, in a military sense?
Oh?
Yeah, this is a school for high IQ kids who had some sort of gift.
Yeah, some sort of gift which the medical establishment had branded as a disease.
And he, I mean, the guy, you know, he can sit down with you and you kind of see his eyes glaze over now as an adult and he can tell you things.
This was my first experience with anybody who was bipolar, but who was also very psychic.
And it was kind of, it was, in a way, it was pathetic that this kid spent, I mean, as a kid, he spent so many years trying to understand who and what he was.
So yes, in answer to that man's question, I think that's very true.
you use a marker on the radio like a commercial as a Yeah, I practice thinking.
unidentified
Every time I hear that commercial, I will wonder if I'm dreaming, and it works very easily.
I fall asleep listening to the radio anyway.
It's great.
And the second method to have lucid dreams, which I find also works, is I connect it to the word it.
I keep thinking, it, I might be dreaming now.
So I repeat, it, I might be dreaming now, meditating for a few minutes, so that automatically, when I'm awake or dreaming, if I say or think the word it, I automatically think, I might be dreaming now, you know, because I connected that by habit to the word it.
And to remember dreams, which works very well, is I selected, for instance, the word bottle.
And when I'm having a lucid dream, I point at something, and at least three times I say bottle, shopping center, so that I connect the content of the dream to the word bottle so that after I wake up and I think of the word bottle, then I automatically think shopping center.
And the memory comes back to me.
And then I just choose a new word to do the same thing.
Are there things like that that one can do to help recall dreams to enter a lucid state as that man was talking about?
unidentified
Sure, I mean the thing that Rob mentioned before about Carlos Castaneda looking for your hand in a dream and also the thing that Seth had mentioned where you train yourself to bring a camera into your dream and then you find the camera and you use it to take snapshots.
Another thing you can do is set your alarm and wake up during the night.
I don't recommend it for people who have trouble sleeping, but it's one way of triggering dreams because when the alarm goes off, you pull up out of a dream and have a better chance of recalling the dream.
And the important thing is to not say, oh, not get lazy about it and go back to sleep, but write down that dream, have a dream journal right by your side or a tape recorder, because you won't remember it if you just fall back asleep.
Well, what I'm suggesting is if you could record a dream, if that technology were to become available, and I think that it could, then you could play back a dream.
Or you could, in effect, set a dream machine and have a dream at command.
I tell you that I have lost my sight within the last three years, and dreaming is one of the most true connections and the feeling of disconnection because I see so very well now in my dreams.
Yeah, and I'm able to recall my dreams just by clearing my mind and letting that feeling come back.
And there seems to be some kind of feeling of just pleasantry, and then the feeling and the imagery all develops.
It's so amazing that I've been able to do, I've actually been able to go out and surf because I had many, many visual, Full color, brilliant color dreams.
And I finally just got up one morning and said, I have to go to the beach.
And well, my mom and dad said, No, don't go out there.
But I called a friend and she came over, and we ended up paddling out and had a wonderful time.
And I was told in one of my living beyond sight loss is that that is a very, very highly skilled thing that Olympic trainers do, that they visualize and basically dream everything mentally to really establish that programming.
I really, I really was like, I felt like I was out of body, and I never heard about it until I started listening to, you know, you may well have been out of body.
I'd say that's a classic where you're up in a corner of a room and looking down.
That's classical OBE.
Sounded like you had some angelic connections there, too.
I have, that is one thing I have a lot of, is flying dreams.
And it's about the only category of dream that I can really say I like.
I love to fly.
And I have many, I've had every form of flying dream you can imagine, from being on top of the tallest building in New York City and having somebody sprinkle some sort of fairy dust on me and just sort of floating out across the city, New York City, to flying over treetops and houses and low-level flying and just really having a blast.
Now, in real life, I've tried to fly.
I went hang gliding and broke my arm.
I'm not a good flyer.
I crash a lot.
unidentified
You say you've never had an OBE, but that's basically what you've had.
Generally, I don't reference, for example, in one dream, other dreams or the sense that I've done this before.
It's always like it's new.
unidentified
Right.
For me, I have these flying dreams where I'm running and I'm taking larger and larger loping steps and then I'm off the ground and leaping over the trees and flying and it's always the feeling that, of course, I'm doing it again.
The attorney who we had on just before the bottom of the hour brought up a very interesting subject.
People in my business and businesses like mine, I suppose, probably actors, people who work in television, people who work in radio, people who work in the media, are notoriously insecure.
And that seems to produce a lot of dreams also, insecurities.
This brings us, Rob, to that thing we were talking about before where sometimes, quite often, I think, events in your waking life are things you can interpret like you might a dream.
In fact, something that happened to Carl Jung and Sigmund Freud as they were talking and actually in a heated argument about psychic dreams, psychic abilities and dreams very similar to this.
Jung was describing these dreams as being realistic, and Freud was dismissing them, and all of a sudden there was an explosion on Jung's bookcase, and they both looked up at this loud noise, and Freud got up and left and never mentioned it again.
Wow.
It reminded me of...
For about four months, we had these shelves in our closet, and the shelves would periodically fall.
I mean, it was like a big crash in the middle of the night.
There are other things that happen, you know, like say your toilet overflows.
Okay, well, you have to ask yourself, well, what is it in my life that is overflowing or what is blocked?
In other words, that's the ultimate message of our book, is that attempt to use the same method as you interpret dreams as interpreting the dramas in your own life.
No, but I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but I was two pounds when I was born and not breathing, and my grandmother breathed into me.
Well, my daughter's boarding babies at the clinic, and I'm just so grieved for that.
But that's lately, and I made her leave home for that.
But that's something lately, but this is forever.
I keep on...
It's driving me crazy because it happens, you know, at least every week.
And I think I just can't find...
I can't find anything to feed this baby.
And I'm just absolutely full of grief because I love this baby.
And I can't find anything to...
Well, at usually the same point.
I wake up from it when I'm completely frustrated and thinking almost ready to scream and cry because the baby needs me and I can't find anything to help it.
My sense of this dream is that this very well could be a past life dream.
Oh.
Especially because you're talking about how often it happens.
I mean, once a week is a lot.
It could be that in a past life you had such a child or you were such a child and you were unable to find the nourishment that you needed, either physical, emotional, spiritual, whatever.
And that's the dream that is, you know, that's the memory that's stuck with you.
So I have another interpretation to present.
As we said, there's always different possibilities, and I think this could be a part of yourself that is undeveloped that you...
Right.
And that your subconscious, your unconscious mind keeps bringing up again.
Maybe a talent that went undeveloped in your life and that you always wanted to pursue something that you were blocked from doing.
He had this dream when he was young, and he's up in the sky, like it's all white.
I figure it's the sky, I don't know.
But he said that he senses two presences on each side of him, and that one is pointing down, and my husband's looking through a mirror, I mean a window, and through the window, he's looking down at water, and they're trying to explain something to him and tell him about something, but he doesn't know what it is.
Let me just mention, there was a psychiatrist named Judith Orloff, I think I mentioned her book before, called Second Sight.
And she talks in there about a dream that she actually recovered through regression.
And in the dream, she was in utero.
Her mother was five months pregnant with her and was going to have surgery for fibroid tumors.
And while the surgery was going on, she, as a fetus, saw herself going to a farmhouse, and out in front of that farmhouse was a blonde woman, her husband, and two teenage sons.
And she felt very strongly that this was her actual family.
And that this family, she said, was with her throughout her mother's pregnancy.
And I'm wondering, there were just some elements of the way you described your husband's dream, if this could be something similar, that these two presences might have been people who had, you know, entities or whatever that had accompanied him from before birth, you know, up until he was a young, you know, what, maybe he went through puberty or something.
The window, quite often in dreams, windows tend to symbolize, you know, the things we were talking about before about a portal, a doorway to something, something, some larger picture.
Is it because we're trying to, something is trying to get worked out, something needs to be worked out?
Why do we have recurring dreams?
unidentified
I think there are a lot of reasons.
I think it can be something that needs to be worked out.
Certainly, that's on a basic level.
But also, it could be that some type of memory, some type of cellular memory or past life memory is trying to come through at a particular point in our life where we need that knowledge.
These are also reference points.
These are our typical dreams, you see.
Dreams of falling, flying, finding buried money, the college dream, losing money or a purse or luggage, taking a train or a bus trip, losing your teeth is another strange one.
Or the nude dream, finding yourself without any clothes in a public place.
These are all recurring dreams that most of us have.