Art Bell

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Jan. 25, 1998 - Art Bell

01:33:00

Dreamland with Art Bell - David Oates - Trish and Rob McGregor

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24:19

david john oates

28:04

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh now, David John Oates is an interesting fellow.
		He's an Australian.
		He has, you will hear it if you listen carefully, a speech impediment of his own that led him into a kind of a lifelong look into the very nature of speech itself, which led him toward reverse speech, which David contends is the best lie detector essentially ever made.
		Is that a fair statement, David?
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think it's a fair statement.
		Certainly it far surpasses the lie detector as far as I'm concerned, which will only give an indication of truth or error.
		Reverse speech will give you your own words in your own voice in great detail.
		So sure.
		Yeah, I think it's certainly the most advanced form of lie detection and personality analysis technology that is currently available.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I'm sitting here speaking to you normally in forward speech right now.
		You would be able to take this forward speech of mine and reverse it, and every so often you would find a clear phrase that made sense and was congruent with what was being said forward or belied it as a lie.
		But you would find that in reverse speech.
		It is not the 1,000 monkey thing.
		It's real.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
		There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it's real and certainly a growing number of people and professionals coming on board every single day.
		The basic theory I'm pursuing, for those who haven't heard me before, is simply the fact that language is bi-level, forwards as well as reverse.
		It's a natural mental function as the brain is constructing speech sounds.
		It's putting them together in such a fashion that we are literally delivering two messages at once, forwards from the conscious mind, which is obviously how you hear everyone speak.
		But we are also speaking backwards from the unconscious mind.
		Now, these messages are occurring not continuously.
		Some people contend they are.
		I tend to be a little bit more conservative.
		They're occurring with great clarity.
		I mean, as clear as I'm talking to you now, at least every 10 or 15 seconds of speech.
		So if you actually take a speech and run it in reverse, you'll hear gibberish at first, and then suddenly embedded in the middle of this gibberish is this extremely clear sentence, which, as you said, is normally contextually related.
		It relates directly to what's being spoken forwards.
		It's grammatically correct.
		It has a very unique sound to it.
		For that reason, it takes people a while to get used to that.
		I mean, most of your listeners who have heard me several times have got their ears well tuned now, but certainly to the newcomer, it has this unusual, etheric, melodious tone that's going to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you what, David, let us give the audience several clear, yes, I know they've heard it before, examples of reverse speech so that they have some idea, those who are just tuning in, what it is they're about to hear.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so we'll go through some of the old favorite first.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, sure.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		One I was recently, I've been on doing a lot of media work on recently is the Patsy Ramsey tapes, the little girl who was murdered in Boulder Coro last year.
		They still have not brought any charge forward in this case.
		And this is Patsy Ramsey.
		She's being interviewed on CNN.
		She's saying forward, she feels there's at least two people out there who know who did this crime.
		And we will run that now.
unidentified		We feel like there are at least two people on the face of this earth that know who did this.
unidentified		And that is the killer and someone that that person may have confided in.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And we run that straight backwards.
		And I'm just isolating a small section in reverse.
		We'll play it at three different speeds.
		And backwards, she says, I'm that person.
unidentified		One, if not if it is.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Again?
unidentified		One, if not.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And once more.
unidentified		One, if not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very clear, David.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Exactly clear.
		And let's just, for the newcomers, let's just show you.
		What I'll do is I'll run the whole tape backwards, and you'll actually hear this little bit of gibberish, and then bang, something this very clear phrase amongst the gibberish.
unidentified		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had absolutely no problem picking that out of the middle.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		I mean, it's so clear.
		Once your ears are adjusted and tuned to the sounds of reverse speech, it's exceptionally easy to hear.
		And, you know, with a few months of training, it's just like listening to forward speech.
		Okay, let's do another one.
		We'll move on to kids.
		Part of my theory is that language begins backward before it does forwards from as early as four months of age.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From what I've heard, it's more than a theory.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would absolutely agree with you.
		I certainly think it's a fact, but for scientific purposes, it's still a theory.
		See, technically, it's probably only a hypothesis at this stage from a purely technical point of view.
		But yeah, it's a fact.
		I mean, this stuff is as clear as I'm talking to you now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, go right ahead.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Okay, this is my daughter in a bathtub.
		She's about 10 months of age.
		She's trying to pick up a cup.
		She can't pick it up.
		She reaches that to me for help.
unidentified		Thank you.
unidentified		Thank you.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Of course, I've played this on your program many times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, total baby gibberish, you would think, listening to that.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And backwards, there's three clear words and one faint word.
		The three clear words are David, help me.
		And write down, you can actually hear the word please just in the background.
		But David, help me, certainly the clear phrase.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you know, I mean, happy you say that that is not there.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Let's do that one more time.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that never ceases to do it to me.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Well, it will give chills down your spine.
		And while I'm on kids, we'll just do one more on kids, and we'll do a couple other, the classic ones.
		Sure.
		This is a kid with a dirty diaper.
		that's coming to bring him a clean diaper.
unidentified		Hey, Ben, I got a diaper for you.
unidentified		A diaper?
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Where he says a diaper.
		Backwards he says, help me out.
		And again.
		And let's run that forwards and backwards.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's remarkable.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is.
		And this is literally reverse speech in action.
		This is exactly how it works.
		Let's do the very first one I ever played on your program when I very first went on, and that's a famous example of Neil Armstrong, of course, dipping onto the lunar surface.
		It's also the very first speech reversal that I ever found in human speech, way back in 1983 when I first began working to this.
		So here we go.
unidentified		It's one small step to man.
unidentified		One scientist to man.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And backwards, he says, man will spacewalk.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And again, you know, exceptionally clear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As clear as can be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Man will spacewalk.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		There's no doubt over that one.
		You mentioned the famous Colonel Haynes.
		Let me see if I've got that one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, do you have Colonel Haynes?
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure I do have it.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		I'm actually trying to look for it right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This, of course, is the famous Roswell press conference, the one in which poor Colonel Haynes was sent out, like Mike McCurry yesterday to try and say the impossible and make it sound right.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Oh, right.
		You know, I've got an amusing reversal on Mike McCurry, too, when we get to that.
		But here is Colonel Haynes trying desperately to deny the whole Roswell incident.
unidentified		Let me read my prepared statement, and then we will roll a short video that Captain McAndrew will talk about.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And when he talks about the short video backwards, he says, we faked it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Ashkenaz.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's clear.
unidentified		Ms. Fashion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We faked it.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		I mean, what do you say?
		I mean, there's just no way you can explain that.
		Actually, I've probably got another one on here, too, on this system.
		This is these are talking about some of the technological research they've done.
unidentified		I'm sorry, I just don't have any information on that.
unidentified		All I know is what the Air Force did, and that if you overlay much of their claims and you look at the Air Force scientific research, you can see it's obvious that what we're talking about at Ross was...
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And see, this is where reverse speech begins to shine, because you get names of places and people and towns and events.
unidentified		Share a secret.
		Share a super isn't that.
		Share a super isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Share a secret with NASA, quite clear.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Quite clear.
		And as I say, this is literally how it works.
		So short, sharp sentences, normally four, five, six words in length.
		Sometimes they can get lengthy.
		I've had them up to 10 or 12 words of clarity.
		And once every 10 or 15 seconds.
		It's just really an amazing, amazing phenomenon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Also, a dangerous one.
		Your house has been burned down.
		People have broken into your house.
		Your phones have been tapped.
		How's it going on that front, David?
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you know, I'm almost not going to say anything.
		I've been in a relatively, it's been peaceful now for about a month, but of course I've just gone out with these Clinton reversals just the last day or two, so we may get the heat turned up again.
		It's been fairly quiet for a month or so.
		I had a, because my house was burned to the ground, as you know, and back in April we had a threat the day beforehand, and then there was a constant plaguing of cars outside the office and office break-ins and then just recently I went public with some TWA reversals and I got a death threat immediately after that.
		Now I'm living in a fortress on a hill with barbed wire fencers all around the house and alarms and sensors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, ain't life great?
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Ain't it wonderful?
		I used to think it would be fun being a pioneer and discovering something new and it certainly has its downsides.
		But you live through it and you do what you got to do and life goes on, you know.
		So actually if we've got time, I've got a quick snippet from the fire tape with this amazing reverse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh the fire tape, yes, when the fire occurred at your home, by all means play that.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this, well, very simply, I have a tape recorder going practically all the time, taping conversations.
		I was in session with a client, and you'll hear me talking to my client about therapeutic stuff in the background.
		and then suddenly my secretary bursts into the room and says, David, the house is on fire.
unidentified		David, this is the charge.
		And it is, this is what?
		David!
		Yes?
		The house is on fire!
		What?
		The house is on fire!
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		You can hear the emotions in her voice there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And the reversal, this is an amazing reversal.
		It says practically exactly the same thing backwards as it does forwards.
		Backwards, she says, the house is on fire.
		Our house is on fire.
unidentified		There is no fire.
		No!
		There is no fire!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is...
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Sorry?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is so clear.
		You know, I don't know that I've ever heard a reversal before that says essentially the same thing.
		Usually it is congruent with what's being said forward, but says it in a different way.
		This says it the same way.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, I think that is because, well, for several reasons.
		Uh her emotions were totally intense.
		And reverse speech is a right brain function.
		It's essentially coming from the right brain.
		But in this case, she was totally and completely congruent.
		She had to get the message over to me as fast as she could.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand that, but how physically, in other words, I'm thinking of the phrase, the house is on fire.
		Right.
		All right, now, when you take that and you reverse it, it is not going to come out to the house is on fire.
		It just simply isn't.
		Now, reverse speech, everybody, is a precise reversal.
		We're not playing any tricks here.
		He slows it down so you can hear it a little bit better, but the first one he plays is at regular speed.
		So help me out here, David.
		How can the house is on fire be the house is on fire backwards?
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you try to analyze it by looking at the phonetics or the letters, it won't work.
		It's to do totally with the sounds of speech.
		Some people make the mistake of trying to read the text and reverse it in their mind.
		It just doesn't work that way.
		It's to do with all the subtle nuances and the inflections and the emotions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's hear it one more time.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Okay, actually, well, why don't you turn the plat forwards and immediately reverse it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		So here it is forwards.
unidentified		and backwards That is incredible.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the more emotional a person is, the more emotions they are pumping out, then the more likely that you're going to get a very clear reversal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that true?
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		That is very true.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's essentially correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, David, listen, we're at the bottom of the hour.
		Hold tight.
		When we come back, we will reverse the President of the United States.
		Moody River, more deadly.
		Once again, David John Oates, Mr. Reverse Speech.
		David?
		Yes, thank you.
		Just before we launch into the President, I have one question for you, and I think this is a fairly important question because it's what your critics would charge.
		Let's take the speech the president made the other day.
		It wasn't really a speech, the news conference or whatever it was in which he denied the affair.
		Would it be possible, David, for me, using reverse speech, if I had an agenda and I wanted to show the president to be innocent, could I take the very same material that you are using and extract from it what appeared to be said in reverse that would show the president to be congruent or telling the truth?
		Could I, with an agenda, go in there and come up with reversals that would show him to be telling the truth as you might have gone in and found reversals showing him to have lied?
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		That's a very good question, of course.
		And I will give you a very emphatic answer on that one.
		No, you will not.
		They aren't there.
		They don't exist.
		You cannot find what is not there.
		I have done tapes in the past where I've gone in with one agenda thinking something to be true and come out with exactly the opposite.
		What you could probably do is to manipulate the interpretation of the reversals.
		The reversals themselves are there.
		How you want to interpret them maybe is open to some conjecture that is a good idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you get to the metaphoric ones, certainly so, yes.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but no, you could not go in and find a different outcome, and I challenge anyone to go and do exactly that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can assure you they will.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure they will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then let's see what you've got.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I'm going to preface this with a reversal I found on Al Gore on Monday.
		He's talking at the Martin Luther King Day anniversary speech.
		He has a comment to make about Clinton in reverse, which I think is very pertinent to the whole presentation I'm about to make.
		So we'll run this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		That is why I'm pleased to announce here today that President Clinton and I are proposing, as part of his initiative on rape, the largest single increase in the enforcement of our civil rights laws in nearly two decades.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And where he saw us about the proposal here and President Clinton are making backwards.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		He says, his awful pride, I don't deserve it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And again.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And once more.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		There we go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		His awful pride, I don't deserve it.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		There is some anger there.
		There's obviously some deep resentments.
		I mean, it speaks for itself.
		And some of his reversals that I'm about to play leave a lot to be desired, quite frankly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Now, if anyone wants to go and hear these, incidentally, they are all up on my website.
		And you can go to my site at www.reverspeech.com.
		That's www.reversespeech.com.
		There's a link, I believe, on the front page of your site now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is, yes.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Go to it straight from there.
		Okay, we're going to look at Mike McCarry first of all.
		Now, he's on his first press conference yes today about all of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not going to parse the statement.
unidentified		You all got the statement I made earlier, and it speaks for itself.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you all got the statement I made earlier, and it speaks for itself.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		But backwards, he says, damn him, this is ugly and a mess.
unidentified		Damn him, it's a stout reading admit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Damn him, it's a thick reading and miss.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Woo!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is clear.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Exceptionally clear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Damn him, this is ugly and a mess.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And you can hear the anger there, the same anger as you can hear in Gore's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You really can play that again in reverse at regular speed, please.
unidentified		Okay.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And that's it.
		The same emotions behind Mike McCarry as what you got from Al Gore.
		There's something going on, and these people are upset.
		Okay.
		Now we're going to look at just a very brief reversal on George Stephanopoulos.
		Oh, yes.
		It's actually the forward dialogue that's probably more significant than the reversal.
		It's only a two-word reversal, but the forward is very significant.
unidentified		Right now, we know two things about this investigation.
		One, these are probably the most serious allegations yet leveled against the president.
		There's no question that, as Koki said, if they're true, they're not only politically damaging, but it could lead to impeachment proceedings.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And backwards, he says, grave fate.
unidentified		Grave fate, grave fate, grave fate.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Just two words.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was pretty quick.
		Yeah.
		And you are really right.
		The forward portion is as or more significant than the reverse, and it just seems to sort of confirm what he's saying.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		George Stephanopoulos obviously believes that this very well may lead to the end of the Clinton presidency.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think I would, yeah, so that's what I'm seeing too, and that's what Clinton is seeing, quite frankly.
		Let's look at a reversal on Clinton now, first of all.
		Very interesting.
		The reversal itself is full of emotion.
		You can actually hear it.
		His voice actually cracks in the reversal, but the forward dialogue is actually fairly monotone and incidental in this one.
unidentified		There is no improper relationship, and I intend to cooperate with this inquiry.
unidentified		But that is not true.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And okay, now, Badwoodsy says, I see that we're broken.
		And the word broken cracks.
		It's almost like he's crying on the word broken.
		I mean, he knows he's in serious trouble here.
unidentified		I said we're broken.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
		Yep.
		I heard that clearly.
		And for those who saw it live forward, that's exactly the way the president's face looked.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As though he was a cook goose, you know, like he was in front of the principal in school.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's devastated over this.
		Now, this reversal, we'll run the Thor dialogue.
		The reversal is blanked on one word.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's the F-word.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so we're blanking it out.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And I almost pulled up the original file, actually.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		We'll go to the editors one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I have a button here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No button.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, please put your finger on the button.
		I did this just five minutes before I went on the air.
		People can go to my site once again and hear the full reversal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		I didn't ask anybody not to tell the truth.
		There is no improper relationship.
		The allegations I have read are not true.
		I do not know what the basis of them is other than just what you know.
		We'll just have to wait and see.
		And I will be vigorous about it.
		But I have got to get back to the work of the country.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now the reversal is blanked, the girl with a scab.
		We'll play the reversal and we'll discuss what it could possibly mean.
		I'm sure this is edited correctly out, but keep your finger on the button.
unidentified		Okay.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		There we go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how clear, if you were able to play it, is the first, the F word?
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Exceptionally clear.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		I could have played you the reversal, and without telling you, you might not have heard the with a scab, but you would have certainly heard blank the.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I heard with a scab, so it was that clear then.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, let's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What does that mean, do you suppose?
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Well, the scab, it's actually a word I've never heard in reverse before.
		There's several ways I can approach this.
		The obvious one I immediately think of is there's a disease of some sort.
		Maybe there's an irritation somewhere.
		I know Paula Jones made some comment about, well, I won't go into that further.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that's all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She made some comment about the generals of the president, that there was something unusual, yes.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and here you've got it.
		Or scab is literally a word for, you know, low life.
		Sure.
		So there's a couple different ways you can take that.
		Let's just run that one more time for everyone.
unidentified		Do you want to hold a scout?
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		I mean, pretty blatant reversal.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now the next one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and for those who want to hear the unadulterated version, the unbleeped out version, that's on David's website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if you'll go to my website, you'll just scroll down and you can hop over to David's and hear the full unbleaped version.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And, you know, and just quickly, I have a brand new site up.
		Keith Rowland is the webmaster.
		He's also your webmaster, too.
		And he has just done a fantastic job on this site.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Keith is good at what he does.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		He is just excellent, and he's so patient.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		I've been really hounding him with stuff to get on it there, and he just smiles and does it profusely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, just about everybody around me, David, who has become web conscious and wanted a web page has ended up going to my Keith Rowland.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		He is just fantastic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, you're right, so go right ahead.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now this reversal, this gets into, you can take this reversal two ways.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Either legitimately or metaphorically, this gets into, this is not the actual sexual allegation itself, but it either gets into his emotional state or what he might be planning to do in the future.
unidentified		But all the others, a lot of them were about serious matters.
		They just faded away.
		I'm not suggesting that they weren't serious.
		All I can tell you is I'll do my best to help them get to the bottom of it.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Neil Lear.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure.
		Okay, now reversals are quite clear.
		The first half of Lear is speaking over the top of it.
		I'll play the reversal, then there's two possible meanings to this one.
		The reversal simply is hell with the earth, see desert answers.
unidentified		Hell with the answers, desert answers.
unidentified		Hell with the events, desert answers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I hear the hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear the hell with the earth.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what was the last part?
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		See desert answers.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Desert, you know, as in sands in the desert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See desert answers.
unidentified		Yeah.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Let me run that again.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		I've got a couple of possible meanings for this one.
unidentified		Sure.
		Well.
		Hmm.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		My computer decided not to play it again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		So let's try this again.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And once more.
		Okay.
		Now, two ways you can look at this.
		The explanation I put on the site was that this was metaphoric.
		Desert is actually a common metaphor in reverse speech for withdrawing into the unconscious or to the land of dreams.
		You almost expect someone in a fantasy.
		And from my therapeutic self, which is where I really applied most of reverse speech, was very concerned.
		It's a man who is in a lot of chaos.
		Hell with the earth.
		See, desert answers.
		I'm going to, or answers.
		There's my Aussie accent.
		I'm going to withdraw into my deep unconscious to escape from this.
		And there was another reversal on him that's on the site.
		It's not all that clear, but I might apply it towards the end.
		The yes, and I'm so within on Clinton.
		He's literally withdrawing inside of himself here, divorcing himself from reality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I sensed some of that when I watched him.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and that's what I got from that reversal.
		Now, since it's been on the site, I've got several emails about people who have actually seen this as literally referring to the current crisis in Iraq and saying, is he going to divert the attention by doing something to Iraq?
		See desert answers.
		Maybe that is a way out for him to divert attention.
		So there's, you know, I don't really know which way to call it, and this is where you get down to the interpretation side of reverse speech, which still needs, you know, except for the very blatant reversals, but the whole interpretation side still needs some serious looking at.
unidentified		Sure.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's continue.
unidentified		Well, hardly anyone's ever been subject to the level of attack I have.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now this one says, now winning a lover.
		Now this is present tense reversal.
		Given the succession of allegations about Clinton, is he in the process of finding someone else?
unidentified		No winning, enrolling.
		No winning.
		No winning.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Are you hearing that one okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I did.
		I heard another voice concurrent with it.
		That's who?
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		What's his name, Jim Lear?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, uh-huh.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		That's his voice over the top of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Let's just, but I wanted to play it.
		It's such a significant reversal.
		Let's just run that one more time.
unidentified		No winning, enrolling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No winning, no winning, winning a lover.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now the next reversal.
		Button your seatbelt for this one.
		Okay.
		This gets pretty down and nasty and dirty.
		I can play it on the air.
		It doesn't use any of the standard illegal words.
		But it's really a very trashy reversal that occurs straight afterwards.
		The reversal winning a lover, bearing in mind the allegations of Paula Jones about him demanding oral sex.
		Let's run it forward.
unidentified		It's very difficult, you know.
		One of the things that people learn is you charge people with all kinds of things.
		It's almost impossible to prove your innocence.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Innocence about what?
		And backwards, he says, make her swallow, you trash, and easy roll.
		Now, is that a roll in the hay, as in lay, or this is something easy?
		Just swallow, please.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		So here it is.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Make her swallow, you trash, and easy roll.
unidentified		Make her follow.
		This costume is you know.
		Make her follow this question as you know.
		You hear that one, okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I don't, you know, it's pretty well blatant.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Speaks for itself.
unidentified		Make her follow this caution as you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I think there is some indication that our president feels that oral sex does not constitute the kind of breach that regular intercourse would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any indication of that in reversals?
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Not that I've seen so far.
		I've still got a lot more analysis to do with this.
		This is clearly a reference to oral sex.
unidentified		Sure.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		But then you've got the reversal blank to the girl with a scab, you know, which is the straightforward act itself.
		But it's harsh.
		It's coarse, you know.
		It's not have sex or make love.
unidentified		It's rough.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		This is a man with some serious attitude problems, quite frankly.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And as the program goes on, if we've got time, I've got some sexual reversals from him over the last three or four years as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we have time.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		That really worries me.
		Now, this next reversal I'm going to play you, I wasn't going to put it on the website.
		I wasn't going to play it on the air simply because of the very serious ramifications that this raises.
		We get down to, I mean, my whole belief system has been challenged radically as I've been doing reverse speech.
		And, you know, I've found reverses that, quite frankly, I don't believe and subsequently proven to be true.
		And I was just really convinced my staff convinced me to play, to finally let this one out.
		So I posted on the website this afternoon.
		And here we go.
		We're going to run this.
		Let's run it forwards.
unidentified		You know, made a lot of people mad when I got elected president.
unidentified		And the better the country does, seem like the matter some of them get.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the first half is obvious.
		Second half is slightly metaphoric.
		There's actually three reversals here.
		Here's the first one.
		Deserve to kill.
		I got a ram.
		And ram is an aggressive move or a stud-like attitude.
		Here we go.
unidentified		Zerp, we feel like I got a ram.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got it.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And then he says, straight afterwards, don't mess around to kill.
		And then there's a little, then there's about two seconds of gibberish that I have cut out of the reversal.
		So don't mess around to kill.
unidentified		He tried to grab the neck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'm not as clear on the word kill in the course of that.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Okay, it's a very fast reversal.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Let's run at the slower speed, and, you know, I'm quite happy to let that one go, quite frankly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I can't say I make the word kill.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		That's fine.
		That's fine.
		We'll just dump it.
		So we'll play the first half again.
		Deserve to kill.
		I got a ram.
unidentified		Deserve to kill, I got a ram.
unidentified		That one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That one's clear.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
		I don't know what to make of that one.
		It worries me.
		I mean, it worries me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this whole thing should worry us.
		All right, David.
		Hold tight.
		We'll get talking about the White House crisis now moving into really the third day.
		The big news, Monica Lewinsky is not going to be deposed by Paula Jones' attorneys today, nor is she going to be deposed in the foreseeable future.
		It has been put off by a judge indefinitely.
		She was due to take Fifth Amendment anyway.
		And I think what's going on, clearly going on, is that Kenneth Starr, Kenneth Starr is trying to dangle in front of her the prospect of immunity, partial immunity, and she wants full immunity.
		The only way this whole thing is going to move forward is if she accepts or he offers full immunity and she accepts and decides then to sing.
		The contents of that song then will determine whether or not this president remains in office.
		If the contents of that song, if the tune is the president had an affair of some sort of sexual type with Monica Lewinsky, oral or otherwise, and there is some indication the president feels that oral sex may not be in the same category somehow as a normally consummated intercourse.
		But if that's all that the song contains, then the president remains in office.
		If the tune includes the fact that the president asked her to keep quiet or the president asked her to lie, then this will, of course, be the end of the Clinton presidency because he will have committed a crime which is indeed impeachable.
		It's an impeachable offense.
		So the contents of that song, when it is sung, are what will hang or hold free and continue in office this president.
		With us at the moment, David John Oates, who does reverse speech.
		And David, welcome back to the program.
		Could we go back to the Mike McCurry business?
		The first one you did tonight.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		I've got that one queued up right now.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Just a small snippet forwards.
unidentified		I'm not going to parse the statement.
unidentified		You all got the statement I made earlier, and it speaks for itself.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And backwards, he says, damn him, this is ugly and a mess.
unidentified		Damn it, it's a fat reading, and it's.
unidentified		Damn, and it's a fat reading and mitz.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Damn it, it's a fat reading and mitz.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you can imagine Mike McCurry would be very angry about this.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he's extremely upset.
		Yes.
		I'm in the middle of doing reversals on all of these, too.
		I heard you mention about the special.
		I've got one reversal on him.
		It's not ready for airplay yet.
		It says it simply says she shared the lies.
		That's not ready for airplay yet.
		It's in my other system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She shed the lies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Shared.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		S-H-A-R-E-D.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, shared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She shared the lies.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		So he obviously knows there's something going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now wait a minute now.
		She shared the lies could be referring to Monica Lewinsky, who, of course, sang like a bird on the tape to Linda.
		Right.
		And so that could be an admission that Akin Star believes that it was a lie.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
		It's just one reversal so far, and I'm in the middle of doing this.
		I mean, this thing only hit the yes today.
		My phone calls are jammed, and then I had work to do today, and I've started on this stuff as soon as I got home this afternoon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		All this ready.
		I will have a lot more ready by next week.
		You can go to my site, or maybe you call my office if I can get my office number out.
		That's 1-800-669-5789.
		800-669-5789.
		Now you've got some new people joining you.
		Maybe we can just replay a couple of the more incriminating reversals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go right ahead.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And this clearly something has happened.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		If you accept reverse speech to be a real or valid science, then you must also accept that Clinton has most definitely lied about this, particularly.
unidentified		I didn't ask anybody not to tell the truth.
		There is no improper relationship.
		The allegations I have read are not true.
		I do not know what the basis of them is other than just what you know.
		We'll just have to wait and see.
		And I will be vigorous about it.
		But I have got to get back to the work of the country.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And the reversal says, blanked the girl with a scab.
		Here it is at three speeds.
		And And, you know, you don't need to use much imagination to know what you're saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, we blanked out the S-word there.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		The thing I don't like about it is it's harsh and coarse and the same as this one here.
		There's clearly some very unhealthy attitudes running here.
unidentified		It's very difficult, you know.
		One of the things that people learn is you can charge people with all kinds of things.
		It's almost impossible to prove your innocence.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And backwards he says, make her swallow, you trash, an easy roll.
		And it's a bit fast.
		Clinton's reversals are actually quite fast in this interview.
unidentified		Make that fall those discovery means you know.
unidentified		Make half wild those discovery means you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is nevertheless clear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's nevertheless clear.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		Quite clear.
		Let's just run up at the slower speed.
		I mean, I don't know what to tell you.
		Here's a reversal I got from his statement in the White House this morning.
		Just one clear one was all I could quote on it.
		I need to emphasize I'll be spending all weekend on this.
		There'll be a lot more going up on the site by Sunday or Monday.
		But clearly what I've gotten so far is very, very damning.
unidentified		And we will give you as many answers as we can as soon as we can at the appropriate time, consistent with our obligation to also cooperate with the investigations.
		And that's not a Dodge.
		That's really what I've talked with our people.
		I want to do that.
		I'd like for you to have more rather than less.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And this is just an incidental reversal.
		We tried to frost that battle.
		The battle coming up, we tried to cool it down.
		We didn't want it to happen.
		We tried to frost that battle.
unidentified		Me further cross-touch, battle buttons.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And one more time.
unidentified		Me further cross-tuts, battle, but battle.
unidentified		We'll rest.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Okay, there we go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It had a little bit of that ethereal sound to it.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it did.
		Yes.
		And I'm going to play you some other reversals.
		Now, I didn't play in the beginning.
		I personally think they're quite clear, but they've got the classic ethereal sound to them, which need to get used to.
unidentified		Sexual relationship with this young lady.
		There is not a sexual relationship.
		That is accurate.
		We are doing our best to cooperate here, but we don't know much yet.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now, very interesting.
		The reversal occurred immediately afterwards.
		Have you ever had a sexual relationship with this woman?
		The very first word you hear in the reversal is a very clear yes.
		And then he says, and I'm so within.
		And the within gets to what I said earlier about he's withdrawing inside of himself.
		He's disassociating from reality here.
		Classic ethereal sound, this one, yes, and I'm so within.
unidentified		Cassandra within.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and I'm so within.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, very clear.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		I'm very concerned.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		I really am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
		I had, David, I really had that impression when I watched the president giving his denial.
		It did look like he was sort of a sad ball of a person who was rolling inside himself and kind of holding reality at bay and moving into his own sort of personal denial and living inside that ball.
unidentified		Yeah.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I made a statement on the website, and I'll say it on the air too.
		If this is indeed correct, this is a man who should not have the position he's currently got.
		You've got to be grounded and stable and in full control.
		Anyway, next one.
		Once again, his voice cracks.
		Remember the reverse, I see the word broken.
		And the voice cracked on broken.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I recall.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		He says, we will bring her faults.
		And he cracks on the word false as well.
		He's clearly setting up some sort of strategy to discredit her.
unidentified		We will bring her false.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We will bring her faults.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Next one, very quick.
		It mentions a name.
		I don't know who this name is.
		Oh, probably Mike McCurry.
		I just dawned on me.
		It says, and yes, Nick, I lost it.
unidentified		And the other snick, I lost it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't hear the foreword to that.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that was the whole section I played first.
		Oh, yeah.
		Drop me play the whole forward section?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, can you play that section which results in this reversal?
unidentified		Ooh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or if you play the whole thing, then you can see that.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Let me play the whole thing.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		There was three reversals in that whole fourth section.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just identify for me, this is a very clear one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Identify for me where you pick this one out.
unidentified		Okay.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		I think if that is accurate, there is not a sexual relationship that is accurate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is accurate.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		That's where it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that results in.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And yes, Mick, I lost it.
		In other words, he lost control.
		You know, he did something silly.
unidentified		And yes, Nick, I lost him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very clear.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		I didn't know who Mick was at first, and then obviously he's talking about Mike McCurry.
		Yeah, Mike McCurry.
		Reversal on the Maxwell Jordan that I don't have transferred over to this system yet.
		Let me see if I can pull that one up quickly.
		I'm going to have to plug in my other computer here and pull that up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody needs to understand this is all being done at the last moment, and I know your work has occurred right up until airtime.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bear with us on this, folks.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this is literally hot off the press as it happens.
		We're that close on this one.
		And I'm trying to find this file on my other system.
		This is on Maxwell Jordan.
		Once again, I have only just started doing reversals on this.
		I haven't even checked this one, except I do remember it was fairly clear.
		So we're flying by the seat of our pants on this one.
		Hello, you there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I just plugged in my other system.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Maxwell Jordan.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, we're not getting the audio on.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		No, I can see that.
		We're not getting it.
		Let me just try one more time on this.
unidentified		Hubert Thurburg.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		No, we're not getting it.
		Okay.
		Simply, the reversal says, abandon him with error.
		And the sense I'm getting is he's trying to distance himself from this whole thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, his forward speech yesterday seemed very supportive of the president, suggesting there was no time at which he nor did he have knowledge of the president ever ask anybody to lie.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Right.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're suggesting that in reverse he is more or less abandoning...
unidentified		And that's essentially all I've...
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		So let me go back over some of the history here and some other reversals I've found on him in the past.
		This was a rather amusing one.
		He's giving a speech.
		His eyes glance downward momentarily.
		And actually on the videotape, this looks quite amusing.
		There's an attractive woman sitting in the front row.
unidentified		Battling discrimination against mental illness, caring for children of veterans who suffer from a terrible disease.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		And the backwards, he says, see his little breast.
unidentified		See his little breast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See his little breast.
unidentified		See his little birth.
unidentified		And what's more, see his little birth.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		And here's an interesting reversal that I found on him right when he ran, when he won re-election.
		And I'm just hoping I've got it on this system.
		This has all happened so fast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You feel that way about the whole thing, actually.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, I don't have it on this system.
		It's on my website right when he won re-election.
		He's giving his acceptance speech, and he has an exceptionally clear reversal that says, the world will come and damn me.
		Really predicting a very ominous future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed.
		Indeed.
		All right, listen, my friend, I want to thank you for coming up here tonight at the very last minute and doing this for us.
		And when you have updates in the next week or so, there's going to be a very great deal of material for you.
		Let me know, and we will do an update here on the air.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		I am going to be devoting most of my spare time to this over the next week or so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can imagine.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		This is a hot story.
		So, well, yeah, thank you for the opportunity to come on the air and discuss this.
		Let me get my website and phone number out one more time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I did check, by the way, and the link is on our site right now.
		So if you go to my site, folks, which you're probably used to doing, go down and just jump on David's name.
		You'll see the link there.
		You'll go right over to Reverse Speech or directly at www.reverspeech.com.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Or you can call the office at 1-800-669-5789.
		800-669-5789 to get my book that explains the theory of reverse speech in great depth.
		We also have the machines where you can do this for yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And I really do recommend people do that.
		David, thank you for the short notice appearance.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for having me out.
david john oates ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
		David John Oates, folks, and there you have What Reversals We Have on the President and Mike McCurry and Company to airtime.
		Here's an interesting fact from Corvellis, Oregon Art.
		Wasn't all this predicted by Sean David Morton?
		A problem with the president?
		Gore forced to retire.
		Ted Kennedy vice president.
		Clinton saying, go ahead, impeach me.
		Oh, we all laughed hard when he said it.
		Now, well, frankly, I wonder, could this be the beginning of Sean David Morton's prediction?
		I've tried to call several times.
		I get through occasionally, but our long-distance service cuts us off after X number of rings.
		And so I thought I would call that to your attention.
		What I want to do, following the bottom of the hour, what I want to do is, again, allow you to debate this issue.
		And by that, I mean I want one of you who supports the president and thinks that Ken Starr is just out to get the president.
		Maybe somebody who believes the whole idea of a sting operation on the president of the United States regarding sexual matters is wrong, wrong, wrong.
		In other words, a supporter of the president.
		And then I want somebody else who is a definite detractor of the president and, frankly, is overjoyed that this entire thing is occurring.
		There really are many, many people like that out there.
		And we will put you on the air together and allow you to debate.
		Now, I don't want any faint-of-heart debaters.
		I want people who really believe what they are going to debate.
		And if during this coming break I can find a couple of you that I think well represent each side, I'll put you both on the air and we will have you debate the issue.
		How about that?
		I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Her hair's a hollow gold.
		Her lips are sweet and cry.
		Her hands are never cold.
		She's got better days inside.
		She's cut up you've been gone.
		You won't have to think twice.
		She's pure as New York snow.
		She's got many days inside Can't she leave you?
		She'll need you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And continued to do so until she got one.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then the dream went away.
unidentified		So you could look at that as a prophetic dream, possibly, as well as something along the lines that we were talking about before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does that frequently happen that you dream of something and dream of it until the reality arrives and then the dream stops?
unidentified		Oh, yeah, I think it does.
		One of the things that when you're attempting to interpret dreams, it's always a good idea to first actually look at the dream as possibly having a literal meaning.
		In other words, a friend of mine's father or father-in-law had a dream of his house or his cottage, his cabin, I think it was, falling off of its foundation.
		And to me, I thought, well, is there something going on in his life where he feels unstable, that he's losing his foundation?
		Is he on the point of retiring or something like that?
		What he did is he went outside and looked at the foundation and found out the house was actually about to fall off the foundation into the lake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
unidentified		So it was a warning dream.
unidentified		It had a literal message.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very practical dream indeed.
		Holy mackerel.
		West of the east of the Rockies, you're on the air with the McGregors.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Have a question.
		This is Bonnie in North Carolina.
		Yes, Bonnie.
		Want to know what they think about when you wake up and you can't decide whether you're dreaming, you're having an out-of-body experience, or how can you tell the difference between the two?
		And also when you're waking up and you know you're waking, you think you're awake, and you're laying there trying to decide whether your eyes are open or shut because you're seeing these things so clearly.
		And then you finally realize your eyes are still shut, but you know they're open, it's real confusing to me in the morning.
		Well, I think as far as the out-of-body thing, that's fairly easy to determine.
		Basically, all you have to do is try and turn around or to lay down or something.
		I mean, because in an out-of-body state, you generally, nothing is solid.
		So, like, try and touch something that's solid.
		You know, if you're OBE, your hand's going to go through whatever it is or your feet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You two firmly believe it's possible to go out-of-body.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
		Yes, I think it is.
		Rob?
		I think out-of-body experiences and lucid dreams are two areas that are very close together, and it's hard to distinguish them sometimes.
		But there have been some examples where people have had dreams where they've gone, so-called, out of their body, visiting a friend, seeing something within that house that they didn't know was there,
		something new or whatever, and then talking to the person on the phone the next day and mentioning that object and the person verifying that it was there, which seemed to be a verification of the stereotypes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, what are we doing when we travel out of body?
		How do we do that?
		What is happening?
unidentified		I had one experience when I was 18.
		I was in college.
		There was a record on the stereo.
		It was in the days when, you know, stereos, that's all we had, just record players.
		And it was an old 33, and the needle had gotten stuck.
		And it was late at night, and nobody wanted to get up to change the record.
		And all of a sudden, I found myself in the living room reaching down to change the, you know, get the needle out unstuck.
		And my hand went through the record player.
		And so I knew that I had just OBE and I was conscious.
		And now I've tried to induce OBEs, you know, before I go to sleep, and I've never had much look at it.
		But I mean, it's, I think that there is another, for all of us, there is a cocoon of energy around us, and that energy is capable of traveling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In what realm?
unidentified		That's the question.
unidentified		Robert Monroe was really the pioneer in that field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I interviewed him before he passed.
unidentified		Oh, boy, lucky you.
unidentified		Lucky you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, of course, he thinks there are, thought there were many dimensions.
unidentified		Well, he kind of likened it all to, I think it was in his last book, likened it to an interstate with many exits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		And he mapped that.
		I mean, I cannot imagine what this man went through in his life trying to understand what was going on.
		I really give him credit because he was working in a time when people weren't even open to this stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's absolutely correct.
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, he was working in the dark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there seems to be a moment, and I've come to this moment, when you're on the edge of an out-of-body experience, your entire body begins to vibrate.
		You make a very loud noise.
		And I have never been able to let go.
		And I have interviewed people about out-of-body experiences, but I have never been able to let go.
		For me, it's too frightening giving up that kind of control.
		Absolutely, desperately frightening.
		And I jerk myself back from it.
		Right.
unidentified		You are on the edge of it, though.
		If you would just roll out, sit up, or make the move, you would at least be able to hover about the room maybe a few seconds.
		The hardest part, you've already done it, which is to set up the field of vibration.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it doesn't feel like the hardest part.
		The hardest part feels like letting go of control enough to do it, and I just can't do it.
		I get scared, and I guess I'm kind of a control freak, and so I jerk myself back, and so I have missed the experience, but I've been right to the precipice, right to the very edge.
unidentified		Well, it's a fascinating feel.
unidentified		It's also interesting that Monroe really, his work was the precursor stuff to all the remote viewing, or to a lot of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I've also interviewed most of the remote viewers from the U.S. government program, and they are a remarkable group.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I take it that you all feel that remote viewing is absolutely a real discipline, as real as out-of-body experiences and stuff.
unidentified		Yeah, we participated for a while in Leonard Buchanan's web.
		He has that wonderful web page where he does these target sites.
		And I recommend anybody who's interested in this stuff to go to his website and to try his targets.
		It's very interesting what you come up with.
		Rob and I were surprised that we got a number of hits, you know, and just without even once your mind has something to direct itself to, it's remarkably easy to pick up something.
		Yeah, it's amazing that he can give you these numbers, and you can go to relate, start getting images just on this number, and that other people are doing the same numbers and getting images that they may not be exactly the same thing, but having.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But very close.
unidentified		Right, very close.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you two.
		Listen, hold on.
		We are at the top of the dreams book from Fantasies to Nightmares.
		What do your dreams mean?
		How to remember them?
		How they affect your everyday life by Trish and Rob McGregor.
		And turning to page 13, it says, you spend about a third of your life asleep.
		That means, in a lifespan of 75 years, you sleep the equivalent of 25 years, and yet not until fairly recently did science understand what happens during sleep.
		And so it is a really important topic, a third of our lives, right?
unidentified		That's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
		All right.
		Lots of people would like to talk with you, too, so here we go.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with the McGregors.
		Hi.
unidentified		Well, hello, Art.
		I'd like to say hello to the McGregors as well.
		Hello?
		And I enjoy listening to Art's show.
		I've listened to it for quite a few years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I was listening to the McGregors talk about out-of-body experiences, and I think I had something similar to an out-of-body experience, only while I was awake.
		I'm not quite sure, and they might be able to help me understand what it was that happened to me.
		This happened about a couple of years ago.
		I was helping a friend one Saturday morning do some lawn maintenance.
		We were cutting grass, and it was fairly mild.
		It was in the mid-80s, and it was about 10 o'clock in the morning, and I was up at one house mowing this yard, and he was down at another house mowing the yard, and we had just gotten started.
		And all of a sudden, I began to feel kind of funny or just out of whack.
		And I continued mowing this person's yard, but yet at the same time, it felt like I was not there mowing the yard.
		I could barely make out the sound of the mower.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		And I was cutting the grass, and everything looked kind of fuzzy.
		It looked like there was some sort of darkness over the area, but yet I could still see the sun and stuff like that.
		I kept on mowing the yard.
		I finished it up about 20 minutes later, and as soon as I left the area where I was at, everything was like, boom, back to normal.
		And the sound of the mower picked up.
		I heard all the animals and everything again.
		And I kind of felt disoriented after I came out of the area where I was at.
		And when I got down to my friend where he was at at the other house mowing, I asked him if he had anything funny happen to him or if he saw anything funny happen to him.
		And he said, no, he didn't.
		And he asked me what was wrong.
		And I said, I just had the strangest experience while I was cutting this one lady's yard.
		And I've asked a couple of people about it.
		And one person told me I might have had something like an interdimension thing happen to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really something.
		I've never heard of anything quite like that.
		What about you two?
unidentified		Well, that is what I thought as you were describing it, that it sounded like it was almost like you were at a vortex or an interdimensional portal experience.
		Well, now I'll let you know something.
		There is just about a mile and a half or so up the road.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where do you live?
unidentified		Charlotte, North Carolina.
		Oh, Charlotte, okay.
		Yeah, now this happened on Lake Norman, and about a mile and a half up from Lake Norman, and there is a nuclear power plant.
		So I don't know if that maybe had anything to do with it.
		Who knows?
		I mean, it could have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's really a weird experience.
unidentified		The only other thing I would like to ask you, do you know this woman well?
unidentified		I mean, is there anything going on in her life that maybe you subconsciously picked up on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who are you referring to?
unidentified		The person who's lawny was Lynn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's already gone.
unidentified		Oh, he has.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's already gone.
unidentified		Oh, gosh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It didn't seem like it was a key element or even any part of his story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It just happened.
unidentified		Right.
		Yeah, that's true.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with McGregors.
unidentified		Hello.
		Good evening.
		How are you doing, Art?
		I hear you're moving to FM over here in Las Vegas with Tony.
		That's true.
		And I think I'm really glad to hear that because FM is more popular and there's so many more listeners.
		And which station is it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we'll announce that in about a week.
unidentified		Okay.
		All righty.
		I have one question for your guest.
		Sure.
		Gregors.
		Do you think people that are schizophrenic, bipolar, or suffering from attention deficit, hyperactive disorders, or other abnormalities like retardation, et cetera, et cetera, that have extremely realistic dreams and do so consecutively every night can, in effect, make predictions about future events more accurately than your average, normal, Working brain person, and I'll listen off to you.
		All right.
		My take on this is that a lot of times, my feeling about schizophrenia and bipolar and all this other stuff, I think these are convenient labels that the medical establishment has given because they really don't know what's going on.
		Schizophrenics, to me, seem, for instance, I know one young man who has a bipolar.
		First he was diagnosed as a schizophrenic and then he was diagnosed as bipolar.
		This young man is extremely psychic.
		He had a number of very unusual experiences as a kid.
		He went to a particular school where his psychic abilities were used, should I say, in a military sense?
		Oh?
		Yeah, this is a school for high IQ kids who had some sort of gift.
		Yeah, some sort of gift which the medical establishment had branded as a disease.
		And he, I mean, the guy, you know, he can sit down with you and you kind of see his eyes glaze over now as an adult and he can tell you things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know such people.
unidentified		This was my first experience with anybody who was bipolar, but who was also very psychic.
		And it was kind of, it was, in a way, it was pathetic that this kid spent, I mean, as a kid, he spent so many years trying to understand who and what he was.
		So yes, in answer to that man's question, I think that's very true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		But those people are not necessarily usually not very happy people either.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with the McGregors.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
		I'm calling to suggest to listeners how to use lucid dreams to remember past lives, which I successfully do.
		And the way it works is I fall asleep listening to the radio and hear the radio in my sleep, in my dreams.
		So I picked a commercial that I hear sometimes, and I practiced thinking every time I hear that commercial, I will wonder if I'm dreaming.
		And to test this is when I hear the commercial, I cover my ear canals with my thumbs.
		If I still hear the commercial, I know I'm dreaming.
		then i remember past lives by controlling my lucid dreams and another method to have lucid dreams which in other words you use uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		you use a marker on the radio like a commercial as a Yeah, I practice thinking.
unidentified		Every time I hear that commercial, I will wonder if I'm dreaming, and it works very easily.
		I fall asleep listening to the radio anyway.
		It's great.
		And the second method to have lucid dreams, which I find also works, is I connect it to the word it.
		I keep thinking, it, I might be dreaming now.
		So I repeat, it, I might be dreaming now, meditating for a few minutes, so that automatically, when I'm awake or dreaming, if I say or think the word it, I automatically think, I might be dreaming now, you know, because I connected that by habit to the word it.
		And to remember dreams, which works very well, is I selected, for instance, the word bottle.
		And when I'm having a lucid dream, I point at something, and at least three times I say bottle, shopping center, so that I connect the content of the dream to the word bottle so that after I wake up and I think of the word bottle, then I automatically think shopping center.
		And the memory comes back to me.
		And then I just choose a new word to do the same thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think I get the idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are there things like that that one can do to help recall dreams to enter a lucid state as that man was talking about?
unidentified		Sure, I mean the thing that Rob mentioned before about Carlos Castaneda looking for your hand in a dream and also the thing that Seth had mentioned where you train yourself to bring a camera into your dream and then you find the camera and you use it to take snapshots.
		Another thing you can do is set your alarm and wake up during the night.
		I don't recommend it for people who have trouble sleeping, but it's one way of triggering dreams because when the alarm goes off, you pull up out of a dream and have a better chance of recalling the dream.
		And the important thing is to not say, oh, not get lazy about it and go back to sleep, but write down that dream, have a dream journal right by your side or a tape recorder, because you won't remember it if you just fall back asleep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do the two of you ever think there will be a way for us to, in effect, record dreams?
unidentified		Record them and you mean like visually?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like on a VCR.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, to come up with some sort of device that would actually record a dream.
unidentified		That's a great idea.
		Well, you know, according to Seth, all inventions begin with an idea.
		With an idea.
		But he believes that they begin in a dream state.
		That basically all the civilizations that have existed existed first as a dream.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what I'm suggesting is if you could record a dream, if that technology were to become available, and I think that it could, then you could play back a dream.
		Or you could, in effect, set a dream machine and have a dream at command.
		Or set a timer.
		Just like a VCR, set a timer to have a dream.
unidentified		It's a great idea.
		Sure is.
		Invented, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with the McGregors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		This is Joey.
unidentified		I tell you that I have lost my sight within the last three years, and dreaming is one of the most true connections and the feeling of disconnection because I see so very well now in my dreams.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you?
unidentified		Yeah, and I'm able to recall my dreams just by clearing my mind and letting that feeling come back.
		And there seems to be some kind of feeling of just pleasantry, and then the feeling and the imagery all develops.
		It's so amazing that I've been able to do, I've actually been able to go out and surf because I had many, many visual, Full color, brilliant color dreams.
		And I finally just got up one morning and said, I have to go to the beach.
		And well, my mom and dad said, No, don't go out there.
		But I called a friend and she came over, and we ended up paddling out and had a wonderful time.
		And I was told in one of my living beyond sight loss is that that is a very, very highly skilled thing that Olympic trainers do, that they visualize and basically dream everything mentally to really establish that programming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old are you now?
unidentified		I am 30 years old.
		Wow.
		Yeah.
		And, well, I had another dream.
		Well, I kind of wanted to have a little dream reading is I had a dream about 10 years back, and I was in a little state of rebellion with friends.
		And, well, they turned up at a small cafe with just me there.
		And they were standing on the edges of these cafe benches, and they had wings on.
		And they were looking at me and telling me, come on, Joey, come on.
		And it was very strange because, well, I ended up going to this place where there were many people, but the ladies were not allowed to talk.
		And the men talked in forms of telepathy.
		And I was just, it was one of the most vivid, high-energy dreams that I've ever had.
		Well, I go upstairs, and there's this three-year-old riding a tricycle, a very young child riding a tricycle upstairs saying the lady's going to fall.
		Well, a grandmother came around the corner and fell down the stairs.
		And well, when they said, come on, Joey, and I was saying in my mind, no, I belong to the Creator.
		I belong to the Creator.
		And I came back into the corner of my room, and I had a friend sleeping on the other couch, and I was sleeping, and I could see myself and him.
		And this was very high energy.
		I could see both of us sleeping there, and I was up in the corner of the room.
		And I mean, it had so much feeling and emotion to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that sounds like you were out of body.
unidentified		Yeah, I sure does.
		I really, I really was like, I felt like I was out of body, and I never heard about it until I started listening to, you know, you may well have been out of body.
		I'd say that's a classic where you're up in a corner of a room and looking down.
		That's classical OBE.
		Sounded like you had some angelic connections there, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Flying dreams.
		I have, that is one thing I have a lot of, is flying dreams.
		And it's about the only category of dream that I can really say I like.
		I love to fly.
		And I have many, I've had every form of flying dream you can imagine, from being on top of the tallest building in New York City and having somebody sprinkle some sort of fairy dust on me and just sort of floating out across the city, New York City, to flying over treetops and houses and low-level flying and just really having a blast.
		Now, in real life, I've tried to fly.
		I went hang gliding and broke my arm.
		I'm not a good flyer.
		I crash a lot.
unidentified		You say you've never had an OBE, but that's basically what you've had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're telling me that flying dreams are OBEs?
unidentified		Quite often.
		They can be, not necessarily.
		But when you have these flying dreams, is there a sense that you've done this before and that it's easy, and how come you can't remember this?
		Has that ever occurred to you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
		Generally, I don't reference, for example, in one dream, other dreams or the sense that I've done this before.
		It's always like it's new.
unidentified		Right.
		For me, I have these flying dreams where I'm running and I'm taking larger and larger loping steps and then I'm off the ground and leaping over the trees and flying and it's always the feeling that, of course, I'm doing it again.
		Why can't I remember this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lucky you.
		I can recall having flown like Superman, taking about three giant hops and leaping into the air.
		I've done that.
		All right, first time caller line, you're on the air with the McGregors.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, how you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		All right, I got a dream.
		Let me turn my radio down.
		I keep having this recurring dream.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm calling from Florida.
		Okay.
		Okay.
		I'm an attorney.
		And the dream that I have is that I'm constantly back either in law school or college or high school and I'm missing a class.
		And I can't graduate.
		And it keeps hitting me over and over and over again.
		It's very frustrating.
		I wake up, of course, and I breathe a sigh of relief while I did everything I had to do.
		So interpret.
		That's a very, very common, that's one of the very common dream themes, and that's called the college dream.
		And you're taking an exam without studying, or you realize you haven't gone to class at all.
		And basically, it's related to a sense of not being prepared about something in your life.
		If you look at the time of that dream, you may have something coming up where you're concerned that you really weren't quite ready for this.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does that sound right?
unidentified		I don't know if it's so much as not being prepared for the dream.
		It's always the same thing that I wake up and I'm missing something.
		I'm missing a class.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		May I ask you a question?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're an attorney, right?
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you ever dream of being at the bottom of the ocean?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		No, and I don't dream of lawyer jokes either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Do you ever dream of being at the bottom of the ratings pile?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, all the time.
		Yes, it's a nightmare.
		Thank you very much.
		And McGregors, hold on.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		I'm Art Bell, and from an area near Dreamland.
		This Is Dreamland?
		Hey, let me give the McGregors an opportunity to plug their book.
		It's a long book.
		It's 288 pages long.
		And if somebody out there wanted to get it, where would they go?
unidentified		Borders, Bornton Noble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everywhere, huh?
unidentified		Yeah, just about everywhere.
unidentified		And if the food store is sold out, they can just put in an order for another one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, if they don't have it immediately available, it's going to be in the computer.
unidentified		It should be.
unidentified		And also, if they're on the internet, they can order it through Amazon.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Amazon.com.
		All right, here we go, folks.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with the McGregors.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		This is Richard from Seneca, Missouri.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		And I had a dream, it's probably been three to five years ago, that really stuck in my mind.
		And it was one of the few times that I ever actually got up and wrote it down because it was so vivid.
		And it had a name.
		The building was a very futuristic looking building.
		It was kind of an underground structure.
		And inside they were doing some kind of medical stuff.
		That's all I know about that.
		And when I came outside of this building, there was a wall, and it was like granite.
		And in this wall, there was these square letters, and the name Lieutenant W.L. Briggs was in this stone.
		And it was so vivid, and I don't know anyone with that name.
		I've never known anyone by the name of Briggs.
		And I've tried to look up to see if it was someone I'd read in history or something.
		But I don't know why.
		That name has really bothered me.
		And like I say, it's been probably three or five years ago, and it's just really stuck with me.
		Did you have any sense of the time of that dream?
		It seemed as though it was in present time, but like I say, the buildings and stuff looked futuristic.
		And it was real gray.
		There was no color at all in this dream.
		Well, granted is something that I think it was Carl Jung used to mention as being a there's something definitely archetypal about your dream.
		Uh-huh.
		It could be that it pertains to something that's still in your future, which would explain why you don't know who this Briggs is.
		Basically, I would be aware of, if you meet anybody named Briggs, either ask them who they are or run it in the other direction.
		Yeah, I've been real aware of that name ever since.
		When I sit in an obituary or anything, I try to read about it.
		Or maybe it's you in a future life.
		Maybe it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How odd.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		The attorney who we had on just before the bottom of the hour brought up a very interesting subject.
		People in my business and businesses like mine, I suppose, probably actors, people who work in television, people who work in radio, people who work in the media, are notoriously insecure.
		And that seems to produce a lot of dreams also, insecurities.
		Is that correct?
unidentified		That's definitely true.
unidentified		We have our share of insecure writer dreams.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Insecure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with the McGregors.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi.
		Art, I'm a little nervous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Me too.
unidentified		I don't know how to tell you this, but when you were doing your interview with Brad Steiger, I knocked on your door.
unidentified		You did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You did not.
unidentified		I went to sleep, and when you started the show, and I had a dream of flying to your place.
		And I knocked on your door with an answer.
		I got frustrated, and I thought, well, he's going to hear this.
		And I hit it with my fist, and it woke me up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, let me tell the McGregors about this.
		One night I was interviewing Brad Steiger.
		I take it you know who he is.
		Yes, we do.
		And I had three sharp poundings, boom, boom, boom, on my door.
		And it scared the hell out of me.
		And I work from home, and so I got up during the break and went out and looked.
		And my wife was asleep in bed, and the cats were in there.
		Nobody banged on the door.
		Nobody was there to bang on the door.
		But I'm telling you, these bangs, well, if you've ever seen a movie where a door bows inward, it was like that strong.
		Boom, boom, boom, while I was on the air.
		And that's what that caller was talking about.
		And, of course, he was claiming he was the one who did the bangs.
unidentified		But that really did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, maybe he was.
unidentified		That's interesting.
		Yeah, it is interesting.
		This brings us, Rob, to that thing we were talking about before where sometimes, quite often, I think, events in your waking life are things you can interpret like you might a dream.
		In fact, something that happened to Carl Jung and Sigmund Freud as they were talking and actually in a heated argument about psychic dreams, psychic abilities and dreams very similar to this.
		Jung was describing these dreams as being realistic, and Freud was dismissing them, and all of a sudden there was an explosion on Jung's bookcase, and they both looked up at this loud noise, and Freud got up and left and never mentioned it again.
		Wow.
		It reminded me of...
		For about four months, we had these shelves in our closet, and the shelves would periodically fall.
		I mean, it was like a big crash in the middle of the night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And the first time it happened, Rob got news that his father had gone into the hospital about two days later.
		So this kind of stuck in my mind.
		And the next time it happened, it was on my side of the closet.
		And something, I don't know, catastrophic happened in my life with my parents.
		The next time it happened, Rob was nominated for an Edgar.
		But it always, it was either his side or my side.
		And finally, we fixed it so that this can't happen anymore, because the shelves can't fall.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
unidentified		There are other things that happen, you know, like say your toilet overflows.
		Okay, well, you have to ask yourself, well, what is it in my life that is overflowing or what is blocked?
		In other words, that's the ultimate message of our book, is that attempt to use the same method as you interpret dreams as interpreting the dramas in your own life.
		Exactly.
		Looking for meanings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, with reference to the overflowing toilet, I'm not sure we want to go there.
unidentified		Go right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with the McGregors.
unidentified		Hello.
		Oh, thank you very much.
		This is Teresa from Cincinnati.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I have a recurring dream about these babies.
		I keep dreaming about babies that I just love this baby, but it's hungry, and I never have food for it.
		I never have clues.
		I look in my cupboard, and I don't even have any baby food, and I don't have any milk, and I'm thinking, I better hurry up.
		This baby's going to die if I don't do something about this.
		And how come I don't have the things for this baby?
		And the baby looks sometimes, maybe a couple of times the babies are dead.
		Sometimes they're just halfway alive.
		And other times they seem like they're just waiting for me to try to find something to help them.
		But it keeps going on.
		And I'm 70 years old, for goodness sake, and I'm still dreaming about them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		Is there any kind of historical sense to this?
		I mean, are you dressed in different clothing?
		No, but I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but I was two pounds when I was born and not breathing, and my grandmother breathed into me.
		Well, my daughter's boarding babies at the clinic, and I'm just so grieved for that.
		But that's lately, and I made her leave home for that.
		But that's something lately, but this is forever.
		I keep on...
		It's driving me crazy because it happens, you know, at least every week.
		And I think I just can't find...
		I can't find anything to feed this baby.
		And I'm just absolutely full of grief because I love this baby.
		And I can't find anything to...
		Well, at usually the same point.
		I wake up from it when I'm completely frustrated and thinking almost ready to scream and cry because the baby needs me and I can't find anything to help it.
		My sense of this dream is that this very well could be a past life dream.
		Oh.
		Especially because you're talking about how often it happens.
		I mean, once a week is a lot.
		It could be that in a past life you had such a child or you were such a child and you were unable to find the nourishment that you needed, either physical, emotional, spiritual, whatever.
		And that's the dream that is, you know, that's the memory that's stuck with you.
		So I have another interpretation to present.
		As we said, there's always different possibilities, and I think this could be a part of yourself that is undeveloped that you...
		Right.
		And that your subconscious, your unconscious mind keeps bringing up again.
		Maybe a talent that went undeveloped in your life and that you always wanted to pursue something that you were blocked from doing.
		And it's recurring in the image of a child.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's remarkable.
		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air with the McGregors.
		Hello.
		Hi, Ert.
unidentified		I've been listening to you for about a year and I'm really enjoying the show tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Back before the break, your guest, the McGregors, were talking about the flying dreams.
		And the sensation that, you know, why can't I remember this?
		And I've done it before, and how come I can't remember?
		That hit me really, really strongly.
		And I was wondering if they could possibly say anything more about it.
		That was you talking, Rob.
		Say it.
		Oh, that's what happens to me when I have these flying dreams, that it's so obvious that it's so easy to do.
		Exactly.
		It's that other part of ourself, the invisible part, the non-physical part of ourselves that we are in more fully at that point.
		And it's almost like going home or something.
		This is where we're from.
		Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me.
		It's exactly how I feel, too.
		I've never heard it expressed that way before.
		Thanks a lot.
		Keep flying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Indeed.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with the McGregors.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		El Paso.
unidentified		Hi there, Bill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		We love your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I want to ask a question for the McGregors.
		This is for my husband.
		He had this dream when he was young, and he's up in the sky, like it's all white.
		I figure it's the sky, I don't know.
		But he said that he senses two presences on each side of him, and that one is pointing down, and my husband's looking through a mirror, I mean a window, and through the window, he's looking down at water, and they're trying to explain something to him and tell him about something, but he doesn't know what it is.
		Let me just mention, there was a psychiatrist named Judith Orloff, I think I mentioned her book before, called Second Sight.
		And she talks in there about a dream that she actually recovered through regression.
		And in the dream, she was in utero.
		Her mother was five months pregnant with her and was going to have surgery for fibroid tumors.
		And while the surgery was going on, she, as a fetus, saw herself going to a farmhouse, and out in front of that farmhouse was a blonde woman, her husband, and two teenage sons.
		And she felt very strongly that this was her actual family.
		And that this family, she said, was with her throughout her mother's pregnancy.
		And I'm wondering, there were just some elements of the way you described your husband's dream, if this could be something similar, that these two presences might have been people who had, you know, entities or whatever that had accompanied him from before birth, you know, up until he was a young, you know, what, maybe he went through puberty or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
unidentified		Well, his mom died when he was 10.
		I mean, that could be part of it, you know.
		Uh-huh.
		The window, quite often in dreams, windows tend to symbolize, you know, the things we were talking about before about a portal, a doorway to something, something, some larger picture.
		Yeah.
		Has he had this dream since he was young?
		I mean, has it continued?
		He said he's had a recurring dream about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do we have recurring dreams?
		Is it because we're trying to, something is trying to get worked out, something needs to be worked out?
		Why do we have recurring dreams?
unidentified		I think there are a lot of reasons.
		I think it can be something that needs to be worked out.
		Certainly, that's on a basic level.
		But also, it could be that some type of memory, some type of cellular memory or past life memory is trying to come through at a particular point in our life where we need that knowledge.
		These are also reference points.
		These are our typical dreams, you see.
		Dreams of falling, flying, finding buried money, the college dream, losing money or a purse or luggage, taking a train or a bus trip, losing your teeth is another strange one.
		Or the nude dream, finding yourself without any clothes in a public place.
		These are all recurring dreams that most of us have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I actually did that, I'm told, when I was young.

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