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Jan. 25, 1998 - Art Bell
01:32:59
Dreamland with Art Bell - David Oates - Trish and Rob McGregor
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Now, David John Oates is an interesting fellow.
He's an Australian.
He has, you will hear it if you listen carefully, a speech impediment of his own that led him into a kind of a lifelong look into the very nature of speech itself, which led him toward reverse speech, which David contends is The best lie detector, essentially, ever made.
Is that a fair statement, David?
Yeah, I think it's a fair statement.
Certainly it far surpasses the lie detector, as far as I'm concerned, which will only give an indication of truth or error.
Reverse speech will give you your own words in your own voice in great detail.
So, I'm sure.
Yeah, I think it's far...
I'm sitting here speaking to you normally in forward speech right now.
and personality analysis technology that is currently available.
I'm sitting here speaking to you normally in forward speech right now.
You would be able to take this forward speech of mine and reverse it and every so often
you would find a clear phrase that made sense and was congruent with what was being said
forward or belied it as a lie, but you would find that in reverse speech.
It is not the thousand, hundred monkey thing.
It's real.
Oh sure, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it's real and certainly a growing number of people and professionals are coming on board every single day.
The basic theory I'm pursuing for those who haven't heard me before is simply the fact that language is bi-level, forwards as well as reverse.
the natural mental function as the brain is constructing speech sounds,
it's putting them together in such a fashion that we are literally delivering two messages at once,
forwards from the conscious mind, which is obviously how you hear everyone speak,
but we are also speaking backwards from the unconscious mind.
Now these messages are occurring not continuously.
Some people contend they are.
I tend to be a little bit more conservative.
They're occurring with great clarity.
I mean as clear as I'm talking to you now, at least every 10 or 15 seconds of speech.
So if you actually take a speech and run it in reverse, You'll hear gibberish first, and then suddenly embedded in the middle of this gibberish is this extremely clear sentence which, as you said, is normally contextually related.
It relates directly to what's being spoken forward.
It's grammatically correct.
It has a very unique sound to it.
For that reason, it takes people a while to get used to that.
Most of your listeners who have heard me several times have got their ears well-tuned now, but certainly to the newcomer, it has this unusual, etheric, melodious tone.
I'll tell you what, David.
Let us give the audience several Clear, yes I know they've heard it before, examples of reverse speech so that they have some idea, those who are just tuning in, what it is they're about to hear.
Okay, so we'll go through with some of the old favorites first.
Sure, sure.
One I was recently, I've been doing a lot of media work on recently is the Patsy Ramsey tapes, the little girl who was murdered in the Bouldercar Road last year.
They still have not We feel like there are at least two people on the face of this earth that know who did this.
She's being interviewed on CNN.
She's saying forward, she feels there's at least two people out there who know who did this crime.
And we will run that now.
We feel like there are at least two people on the face of this earth that know who did this.
And that is the killer and someone that that person may have confided in.
And we run that straight backwards.
I'm just isolating a small section in reversal played at three different speeds.
And backwards she says, I'm that person.
Again.
And once more.
Very clear, David.
Especially clear.
And let's just, for the newcomers, let's just show you, what I'll do is I'll run the whole
tape backwards and you'll actually hear this little bit of gibberish and then bang,
something that's very clear phrase amongst the gibberish.
What the...
Oh, I'm getting it on the...
This news...
Why I'm getting it on the internet and all these people saying that...
Okay.
I had absolutely no problem picking that out of the middle.
Right.
I mean, it's so clear.
Once your ears are adjusted and tuned to the sounds of reverse speech, it's exceptionally easy to hear.
And, you know, with a few months of training, it's just like listening to forward speech.
Okay, let's do another one.
We'll move on to kids.
Part of my theory is that language begins backwards before it does forwards, from as early as four months of age.
From what I've heard, it's more than a theory.
Well, I would absolutely agree with you.
I certainly think it's a fact, but for scientific purposes, it's still a theory.
Technically, it's probably only a hypothesis at this stage from a purely technical point of view, but yeah, it's a fact.
I mean, this stuff is as clear as I'm talking to you now.
Sure, go right ahead.
Okay, this is my daughter in a bathtub.
She's about 10 months of age.
She's trying to pick up a cup.
She can't pick it up.
She reaches out to me for help.
What?
That's the best part Because it moves me
What?
Like, everything Of course I've played this on your program many times
Yes, total baby gibberish, you would think, listening to that.
Right.
And backwards, there's three clear words and one faint word.
The three clear words are, David, help me.
And right down, you can actually hear the word, please, just in the background.
But David, help me is certainly the clear phrase.
OK.
Please, please, please, help me.
I mean, you know...
Let's do that one more time.
happy you say that that is not there. Let's do that one more time. All right.
That's incredible.
Yeah.
That never ceases to do it to me.
It will give chills down your spine.
And while I'm on kids, we'll just do one more on kids, then we'll do a couple other classic ones.
Sure.
This is a kid with a dirty diaper.
Dad's coming to bring him a clean diaper.
Yeah.
And where he says a diaper, backwards he says, help me out.
And again.
Let's run that forwards and backwards.
Goodbye, Bob.
Bye, Bob.
Oh, that's remarkable.
It certainly is.
And this is literally reverse speech in action.
This is exactly how it works.
Let's do the very first one I ever played on your program when I very first went on, and that's the famous example of Neil Armstrong, of course, stepping onto the lunar surface.
Yes.
It's also the very first speech reversal that I ever found in human speech, way back in 1983, when I first began working to this.
So, here we go.
we go. That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind. And backwards he says
man will spacewalk.
This is the 9-1-1, Clare 12.
And again.
You know, exceptionally clear.
As clear as can be.
Man will spacewalk.
There's no doubt over that one.
You mentioned the famous Colonel Haynes.
Let me see if I've got that one.
Oh, do you have Colonel Haynes?
I'm sure I do have it.
I'm actually trying to look for it right now.
This, of course, is the famous Roswell press conference, the one in which poor Colonel Haynes was sent out, like Mike McCurry yesterday, to try and say the impossible and make it sound right.
Oh, right.
I'm using a reversal on Mike McCurry, too, when we get to that.
But here is Colonel Haynes trying desperately to deny the whole Roswell incident.
Let me read my prepared statement, and then we will roll a short video that Captain McAndrew will talk about.
And when he talks about the short video, backwards, he says, we faked it.
We faked it.
We faked it.
That's clear.
We faked it.
We faked it.
I mean, what do you say?
I mean, there's just no way you can explain that.
Actually, I've probably got another one on here, too, on this system.
This is, he's talking about Some of the technological research they've done.
I'm sorry, I just don't have any information on that.
All I know is what the Air Force did, and that if you overlay much of their claims, and you look at the Air Force scientific research, you can see it's obvious that what we're talking about arise with... And when he talks about the Air Force's scientific research backwards, he says, share a secret with NASA.
And see, this is where reverse speech begins to shine, because you get names of places and people and towns and events.
Sure, she agrees, NASA.
Share a secret with NASA.
Share a secret with NASA.
Share a secret with NASA, quite clear.
Quite clear.
And as I say, this is literally how it works.
The short, sharp sentences, normally 4, 5, 6 words in length.
Sometimes they can get lengthy.
I've had them up to 10 or 12 words of clarity.
And once every 10 or 15 seconds.
It's just really an amazing, amazing phenomenon.
Also, a dangerous one.
Your house has been burned down.
Yep.
People have broken into your house.
Your phones have been tapped.
Yep.
How's it going on that front, David?
Oh my God, you know, I'm almost not going to say anything.
I've been in a relatively, it's been peaceful now for about a month.
But of course, I've just gone out with these Clinton reversals, just the last day or two, so we may get the heat turned up again.
It's been fairly quiet for a month or so.
I had a... I... because my house was burned to the ground, as you know, and back in April, we had a threat the day beforehand, and then there was a constant plaguing of cars outside the office, and office break-ins, And then just recently I went public with some TWA reversals and I got a death threat immediately after that.
Now I'm living in a fortress on a hill with barbed wire fences all around the house and alarms and fences.
Oh, ain't life great?
Ain't it wonderful?
You know, I used to think it would be fun being a pioneer and discovering something new, but it certainly has its downsides.
You know, you live through it, and you do what you've got to do when life goes on, you know?
So, you know, actually, if we've got time, I've got a quick snippet from the fire tape with this amazing reverse.
Oh, the fire tape?
Yes, when the fire occurred at your home.
By all means, play that.
Yeah, this, well, very simply, I have a tape recorder going practically all the time, taping conversations.
I was in session with a client and you'll hear me talking to my client about therapeutic stuff
and in the background and then suddenly my secretary bursts into the room and says
David the house is on fire.
You can hear the emotions in her voice there.
Oh yes.
And the reversal, this is an amazing reversal, it says practically exactly the same thing backwards as it does forwards.
back when she says the house is on fire our house is on fire.
That is so clear.
You know, I don't know that I've ever heard a reversal before that says essentially the same thing.
Usually it is congruent with what's being said forward, but says it in a different way.
This says it the same way.
Right.
Well, I think that is because, well, for several reasons.
Her emotions were totally intense.
And reverse speech is a right brain function.
It's essentially coming from the right brain.
But in this case, She was totally and completely congruent.
She had to get the message over to me as fast as she could.
I understand that, but how physically?
In other words, I'm thinking of the phrase, the house is on fire.
Right.
I know.
Uh, when you take that and you reverse it, it is not going to come out to, the house is on fire.
Uh, it just simply isn't.
Now, reverse speech, everybody, is a precise reversal.
We're not playing any tricks here.
He slows it down so you can hear it a little bit better.
But the first one he plays is at regular speed, so help me out here, David.
How can the houses on fire be the houses on fire backwards?
Right, well, if you try to analyze it by looking at the phonetics or the letters, it won't work.
It's to do totally with the sounds of speech.
Some people make the mistake of trying to read the text and reverse it in their mind.
It just doesn't work that way.
It's to do with all the Subtle nuances and the inflections and the emotions.
That's amazing.
Alright, let's hear it one more time.
Okay, actually, we'll turn the plate forwards and immediately reverse it.
Okay.
Here it is, forwards.
And backwards.
That is incredible!
Yeah, yeah.
And the more emotional a person is, The more emotions they are pumping out, then the more likely that you're going to get a very clear reversal.
Is that true?
That is very true, yes.
That's essentially correct.
All right, David, listen.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
Hold tight.
when we come back we will reverse the president of the United States.
Once again, David John Oates, Mr. Reverse Speech.
David?
Yes.
Just before we launch into the President, I have one question for you, and I think this is a fairly important question, because it's what your critics would charge.
Right.
Let's take the speech the President made the other day.
It wasn't really a speech, the news conference or whatever it was in which he denied the affair.
Yes.
Would it be possible, David, for me, using reverse speech, If I had an agenda and I wanted to show the President to be innocent, could I take the very same material that you are using and extract from it what appeared to be said in reverse that would show the President to be congruent?
Or telling the truth.
Could I, with an agenda, go in there and come up with reversals that would show him to be telling the truth as you might have gone in and found reversals showing him to have lied?
That's a very good question, of course, and I will give you a very emphatic answer on that one.
No, you will not.
They aren't there.
They don't exist.
You cannot find what is not there.
I have done tapes in the past where I've gone in with one agenda, thinking something to be true and come out with exactly the opposite.
What you could probably do is to manipulate the interpretation of The reversals themselves are there.
How you want to interpret them maybe is open to some conjecture.
When you get to the metaphoric ones, certainly so.
But no, you could not go in and find a different outcome and I challenge anyone to go and do exactly that.
Well, I can assure you they will.
I'm sure they will.
Alright, then let's see what you've got.
Okay, well I'm going to preface this with a reversal I found on Al Gore on Monday.
He's talking at the Martin Luther King Day anniversary speech.
He has a comment to make about Clinton in reverse, which I think is very pertinent to the whole presentation I'm about to make.
So, we'll run this.
Alright.
That is why I'm pleased to announce here today that President Clinton and I are proposing, as part of his initiative on rape, The largest single increase in the enforcement of our civil rights laws in nearly two decades.
And where he says thoughts about the proposal here and President Clinton are making, backwards, he says, his awful pride, I don't deserve it.
His awful pride, I don't deserve it.
And again.
His awful pride, I don't deserve it.
And once more.
His awful pride, I don't deserve it.
There we go.
His awful pride, I don't deserve it.
Yep.
There is some anger there.
There's obviously some deep resentment.
I mean, it speaks for itself.
And some of his reversals that I'm about to play leave a lot to be desired, quite frankly.
All right.
OK.
Now, if anyone wants to go and hear these, incidentally, they are all up on my website.
And you can go to my site at www.reversespeech.com.
That's www.reversespeech.com.
ReverseSpeech.com, there's a link I believe on the front page of your site now.
There is, yes.
Go to it straight from there.
Okay, we're going to look at Mike McCurry first of all.
Now, he's on his first press conference yes today about all of this.
I'm not going to parse the statement.
You all got the statement I made earlier and it speaks for itself.
Okay, you all got the statement I made earlier and it speaks for itself.
Backwards, he says, damn him, this is ugly and a mess.
Damn him, it's ugly and a mess.
Damn him, it's ugly and a mess.
Yeah, I'm gonna miss.
It's that reason I miss.
Ooh, that is clear.
Exceptionally clear.
Damn him.
This is ugly and a mess.
And you can hear the anger there.
The same anger as you can hear in Gore's.
You really can play that again in reverse at regular speed, please.
Okay.
Yeah, I'm gonna miss.
It's that reason I miss.
And that's it.
The same emotions behind Mike McKay as what you got from Al Gore.
There's something going on, and these people are upset.
Okay, now we're going to look at just a very brief reversal on the George Stephanopoulos.
Oh, yes.
It's actually the forward dialogue that's probably more significant than the reversal.
It's only a two-word reversal, but the forward's very significant.
Right now, we know two things.
About this investigation.
One, these are probably the most serious allegations yet leveled against the President.
There's no question that, as Cokie said, if they're true, they're not only politically damaging, but it could lead to impeachment proceedings.
And backwards he says, grave fate.
Grave fate.
Grave fate.
Just two words.
That was pretty quick.
Yeah.
And you are really right.
The forward portion is as or more significant than the reverse, and it just seems to sort
of confirm what he's saying.
Yes, it does.
George Stephanopoulos obviously believes that this very well may lead to the end of the
Clinton presidency.
Well, I think that's what I'm seeing, too.
And that's what Clinton is seeing, quite frankly.
Let's look at a reversal on Clinton now, first of all.
Very interesting.
The reversal itself is full of emotion.
You can actually hear it.
His voice actually cracks in the reversal.
But the forward dialogue is actually fairly monotone.
There is no improper relationship, and I intend to cooperate with his inquiry.
Uh, but that is not true.
That's it.
We're broken.
That's it.
backwards he says, I see that we're broken. And the word broken cracks. It's almost like
he's crying on the word broken. I mean, he knows he's in serious trouble here.
I say that we're broken. I say that we're broken. I say that we're broken.
Yep. I heard that clearly. And if, for those who saw it live, forward,
That's exactly the way the president's face looked.
Oh, yeah.
As though he was a cook goose, you know, like he was in front of the principal in school.
Yeah, he's, uh, he's, uh, devastated, um, over this.
Now, this reversal, we're on the forward dialogue, uh, the reversal is blanked on one word, okay?
Um, but... It's the F word, and so we're blanking it out.
I didn't ask anybody not to tell the truth.
There is no improper relationship.
actually uh... will go to the edit one so i have a button here nobody had
played put your finger on the back but did this just five minutes before i went
on the air as people go to my flight once again and he had a full reversal
i guess i didn't ask anybody not tell the truth
there is no improper relationship allegations i have read or not true
i do not know what the basis of the media other than just what you know
We'll just have to wait and see.
And I will be vigorous about it.
But I have got to get back to the work of the country.
OK.
Now, the reversal is blank.
The girl with a scab.
We'll play the reversal and we'll discuss what it could possibly mean.
I'm sure this is edited correctly, Art, but keep your finger on the button.
OK.
The girl with a scab.
The girl with a scab.
There we go.
Uh, if you were able to play it, is the first, the F word.
Exceptionally clear.
I could have played you the reversal without telling you.
You might not have heard the witherscab, but you would have certainly heard blank.
No, I heard witherscab, so it was that clear then.
What does that mean, do you suppose?
Well, the scab, it's actually a word I've never heard in reverse before.
There's several ways I could approach this.
The obvious No, that's alright.
immediately think of it as a disease of some sort uh... uh...
maybe there's an irritation somewhere uh... i'd like all the time to write
some comments about well i want to go to that further but uh... no that's all
right as she made some comment about the uh... the generals of the president
of the was something
um...
as you know something unusual yes Yes.
And here you've got it.
Or scab is literally a word for, you know, low life.
Sure.
So there's a couple different ways you can take that.
Let's run that one more time for everyone.
one.
I mean, pretty, pretty, pretty blatant reversal.
Okay, now the next one.
All right.
And for those who want to hear the unadulterated version, the unbleeped out version, that's
on David's website.
And if you'll go to my website, you just scroll down and you can hop over to David's and hear
the full unbleeped version.
Right.
And you know, and just quickly, I have a...
Brand new site up.
Keith Rowland is the webmaster.
He's also your webmaster too, and he has just done a fantastic job on this site.
Oh, Keith is good at what he does.
He is just excellent, and he's so patient.
really hounding him with stuff to get on up there and he just smiles and does it profusely and I know just about
everybody around me David who has
Become web conscious and wanted a web page has ended up going to my Keith Roland. He is just fantastic
Fantastic.
Anyway, you're right, so go right ahead.
Okay, now this reversal, this gets into, you could take this reversal two ways.
Either legitimately or metaphorically this gets into, this is not the actual sexual allegation itself, but it either gets into his emotional state or what he might be planning to do in the future.
Well, but of all the others, a lot of them were about serious matters, they just faded away.
I'm not suggesting that they weren't serious.
I don't mean, I just, all I can tell you is, I'll do my best to help him get to the bottom of it.
Okay, that's from the PBS interview, right?
Yeah, that's correct.
The Lear.
McNeil Lear.
Yep, sure.
Okay, now Russell's quite clear.
The first half of Lear's speaking over the top of it.
I'll play the reversal, then there's two possible meanings to this one.
The reversal simply is, hell with the earth, see desert answers.
Hell with the earth, see desert answers.
All right, I hear the hell... Sorry?
I hear the hell with the earth.
Right.
And what was the last point?
See desert answers.
Desert, you know, as in sand in the desert.
See desert answers.
Yeah.
Let me run that again.
I've got a couple of possible meanings for this one.
Sure.
Um, well... Hmm.
My computer decided not to play it again.
I see.
Let's try this again.
Yeah, once more.
OK.
Now, two ways you can look at this.
The explanation I put on the site was that this was metaphoric.
Desert is actually a common metaphor in reverse speech for withdrawing into the unconscious or to the land of dreams.
You almost expect someone in a fantasy And from my therapeutic self, which is where I really applied most of the reversal, I was very concerned.
It's a man who is in a lot of chaos, hell with the earth.
Right.
The desert answers, I'm going to, or answers, there's my Aussie accent, I'm going to withdraw into my deep unconscious to escape from this.
And there was another reversal on him that's on the side, it's not all that clear, but I might apply it towards the end, the yes and I'm so within.
He's literally withdrawing inside of himself here, divorcing himself from reality.
Yeah, I sensed some of that when I watched him.
Yeah, and that's what I got from that reverse.
And since it's been on the side, I've got several emails about people who have actually seen this as literally referring to the current crisis in Iraq and saying, is he going to divert the attention?
by doing something to Iraq, see desert answers. Maybe that is a way out for him to divert
attention. I don't really know which way to call it and this is where you get down to
the interpretation side of reverse speech which still needs, except for the very blatant
reversals, the whole interpretation side still needs some serious looking at.
Hardly anyone has ever been subject to the level of attack I have.
Okay, now this one says, now winning a lover.
Now this is present tense reversal.
Given the succession of allegations about Clinton, is he in the process of finding someone else?
No winning a lover.
You hear that one okay?
Yes I did.
I heard another voice That's Lear.
That's who?
What's his name, Jim Lear?
Yes, uh-huh.
That's his voice over the top of it.
I see.
It's such a significant reversal.
Let's just run that one more time.
Winning a lover.
Win It's very difficult, you know.
One of the things that people learn is you can charge people with all kinds of things.
it's really a trashy reversal that occurs straight afterwards.
The reversal winning a lover, bearing in mind the allegations of Paula Jones about him demanding oral sex.
Let's run it forward.
It's very difficult, you know. One of the things that people learn is you can charge people with all kinds of
things.
It's almost impossible to prove your innocence.
Innocence about what?
And backwards he says, make her swallow you trash and an easy roll.
Now is that a roll in the hay as in lay or this is something easy?
Just swallow please.
I don't know.
So here it is, make her swallow you trash and easy roll.
Make her swallow you trash and easy roll.
Make her swallow you trash and easy roll.
You hearing that one okay?
Yes I am.
I mean I don't, you know, it's pretty well blatant.
Alright, I think there is some indication that our president feels that oral sex Does not constitute the kind of breach that regular intercourse would.
Is there any indication of that in reversals?
Not that I've seen so far.
I've still got a lot more analysis to do with this.
This is clearly a reference to oral sex.
Sure.
But then you've got the other reversal, blank, the girl with a scab, you know, which is the straightforward act itself.
But it's harsh.
It's coarse.
You know, it's not It's not have sex or make love.
It's rough.
This is a man with some serious attitude problems, quite frankly.
And as the program goes on, if we've got time, I've got some sexual reversals from him over the last three or four years as well.
Yes, we have time.
It really worries me.
Now this next reversal I'm going to play you, I wasn't going to put it on the website, I wasn't going to play it on the air, simply because of the very serious ramifications that this raises.
We get down to I mean, my whole belief system has been challenged radically as I've been doing reverse speech.
And, you know, I've found reverses that, quite frankly, I don't believe.
Right, right.
And it's subsequently proven to be true.
Okay.
And I was just really convinced, my staff convinced me to play, to finally let this one out, so I posted it on the website this afternoon, and here we go.
We're going to run this.
Let's run it forwards first.
You know, it made a lot of people mad when I got elected president.
And, uh, and the better the country does, it seems like the madder some of them get.
Okay, the first half is obvious.
Second half is slightly metaphoric.
Um, uh, there's actually three reversals here.
Here's the first one.
Deserve to kill.
I got a ram.
And ram is an aggressive move or a stud-like attitude, you know.
Um, here we go.
Deserve to kill.
I got a ram.
Deserve to kill.
I got a ram.
I've got it.
And then he says, straight afterwards, don't mess around to kill.
And then there's a little, then there's about two seconds of gibberish
that I have cut out of the reversal.
So don't mess around to kill.
You tried to grab the neck.
I'm not as clear on the word kill in the course of that.
Okay, it's a very fast reversal.
Let's run at the slowest speed and, you know, I'm quite happy to let that one go, quite frankly.
No, I can't say I make the word kill.
That's fine, that's fine, we'll just dump it.
So we'll play the first half again.
Deserved to kill, I got a ram.
That one's clear.
Yeah, I know.
I don't know what to make of that one.
It worries me.
I mean, it worries me.
Well, this whole thing should worry us.
All right, David, hold tight.
We'll get to talking about the White House crisis now moving into, really, the third day.
The big news, Monica Lewinsky is not going to be deposed by Paula Jones' attorneys today.
Nor is she going to be deposed in the foreseeable future.
It has been put off by a judge indefinitely.
She was due to take Fifth Amendment anyway.
And I think what's going on, clearly going on, is that Kenneth Starr, Kenneth Starr is trying to dangle in front of her The prospect of immunity, partial immunity, and she wants full immunity.
The only way this whole thing is going to move forward is if she accepts or he offers full immunity and she accepts and decides then to sing.
The contents of that song then will determine whether or not this president remains in office.
If the contents of that song If the tune is the President had an affair of some sort of sexual type with Monica Lewinsky, oral or otherwise, and there is some indication the President feels that oral sex may not be in the same category somehow as a normally consummated intercourse.
But if that's all that the song contains, then the President remains in office.
If the tune includes the fact that the President asked her to keep quiet, or the President asked her to lie, then this will, of course, be the end of the Clinton presidency.
Because he will have committed a crime which is indeed impeachable.
It's an impeachable offense.
So the contents of that song, when it is sung, are what will hang or hold free and continue in office this president.
With us at the moment, David John Oates, who does reverse speech.
And David, welcome back to the program.
Could we go back to the Mike McCurry business Right, yeah.
The first one you did tonight.
I've got that one queued up right now.
Very good.
Just a small snippet forward.
I'm not going to parse the statement.
You all got the statement I made earlier in a speech myself.
And backwards he says, damn him, this is ugly and a mess.
Damn him, it's ugly and a mess.
Damn him, it's ugly and a mess.
And you can imagine Mike McCurry would be very angry about this.
Oh, he's extremely upset, yes.
Yeah, I'm in the middle of doing reversals on all of these two.
I heard you mention about the special... Yeah, Ken Starr, I wonder... I've got one reversal on him.
It's not ready for airplay yet.
It says... it simply says she shed... she shed the lies.
That's not ready for airplay yet.
It's in my other system.
She shed the lies?
Shed.
S-H-A-R-E-D.
Oh, shared.
She shared the lies.
So he obviously knows there's something going on.
Well, now wait a minute now.
She shared the lies could be referring to Monica Lewinsky, who of course sang Like a Bird on the tape to Linda.
Right.
And so that could be an admission that Ken Starr believes that it was a lie.
That's true.
It's just one reversal so far, and I'm in the middle of doing this.
I'm in this thing.
Let me hit the yes.
Yesterday my phone calls are jammed and then I had work to do today and I've started on this stuff as soon as I got home this afternoon.
I understand.
All this ready.
I will have a lot more ready by next week.
Alright.
You can go to my site or maybe you call my office if I can get my office number out.
That's 1-800-669-5789.
That's 1-800-669-5789.
800-669-5789.
Now you've got some new people joining you.
Maybe we can just replay a couple of the more incriminating reversals.
Go right ahead.
Clearly, something has happened.
If you accept reverse speech to be a real and valid science, then you must also accept that Clinton has most definitely lied about this particular one anyway.
I didn't ask anybody not to tell the truth.
There is no improper relationship.
The allegations I have read are not true.
I do not know what the basis of them is, other than just what you know.
We'll just have to wait and see.
And I will be vigorous about it.
But I have got to get back to the work of the country.
And the reversal says, Blank, the girl with a scab.
Here it is at 3 speeds.
The girl with a scab.
And you don't need to use much imagination to know... No, we blanked out the S word there.
Right.
The thing I don't like about it is it's harsh and coarse and the same as this one here.
There's clearly some very unhealthy attitudes running here.
It's very difficult, you know.
One of the things that people learn is you can charge people with all kinds of things.
It's almost impossible to prove you're innocent.
And backwards he says, make her swallow, you trash, an easy roll.
And it's a bit fast.
Clinton's reversals were actually quite fast in this interview.
Make her swallow, you trash, an easy roll.
Make her swallow, you trash, an easy roll.
It is nevertheless clear.
Sorry?
It's nevertheless clear.
Oh yeah, quite clear.
Let's just run at the slowest speed.
Make her swallow, you trash, an easy roll.
I mean, I don't know what to tell you.
Here's a reversal I got from his statement in the White House this morning.
Just one clear one was all I could quote on it.
I need to emphasize I was spending all weekend on this.
Right, sure.
There'll be a lot more going up on the site by Sunday or Monday.
But clearly what I've gotten so far is very, very damning.
And we will give you as many answers as we can, as soon as we can, at the appropriate time, consistent with our obligation to also cooperate with the investigations.
And that's... Oh, what happened?
It's not a dodge.
That's really what I've talked with our people.
I want to do that.
I'd like for you to have more rather than less.
This is just an incidental reversal.
We tried to frost that battle.
The battle coming up, we tried to cool it down.
We didn't want it to happen.
We tried to frost that battle.
You heard him, right on it.
And one more time.
You heard him, right on it. Right on it, we'll leave set.
OK, there we go.
Interesting, it had a little bit of that ethereal sound to it.
Yes, it did.
Yes, and I'm going to play you some other reversals that I didn't play in the beginning.
I personally think they are quite clear but they have got that classic ethereal sound
to them which you need to get used to.
It is a sexual relationship with this young woman.
There is not a sexual relationship that is accurate.
We are doing our best to cooperate here but we don't know much yet.
Okay, now very interesting.
The reversal occurred immediately afterwards.
Have you ever had a sexual relationship with this woman?
The very first words you hear in the reversal is a very clear yes.
Then he says, and I'm so within.
And the within gets to what I said earlier about the, about he's withdrawing inside of himself.
Right.
He's disassociating from reality here.
Right.
Classic ethereal sound, this one.
Yes, and I'm so within.
Casalansi within.
Yes, and I'm so within.
Yes, sir.
Very clear.
You know what?
David, I really had that impression when I watched the president Giving his denial, it did look like he was sort of a sad ball of a person who was rolling inside himself and kind of holding reality at bay and moving into his own sort of personal denial and living inside that ball.
Yeah, and I made a statement on the website and I'll say it on the air too.
If this is indeed correct, this is a man who should not He has the position he's currently got.
You've got to be grounded and stable and in full control.
Anyway, next one.
Once again, his voice cracks.
Remember the reverse?
I see the word broken and the voice cracked on broken.
Yes, I recall.
He says, we will bring her faults.
And he cracks on the word faults as well.
He's clearly setting up some sort of straddle.
strategy to discredit her. We will bring her faults. We will bring her faults.
We will bring her faults.
Yep. Next one's a very quick. It mentions a name. I don't know who this name is. Someone
oh, probably Mike McCurry. I just, just dawned on me. It says and yes, Mick, I lost it.
And yes, Mick, I lost it.
Wait a minute.
I didn't hear the forward to that.
Oh, that was the whole section I played first.
Oh, okay.
Oh, okay.
Three, can we play the whole fourth section?
Well, can you play that section which results in this reversal?
Ooh, uh...
Yeah, I'll...
Or if you play the whole thing, then identify... Let me just play the whole thing.
There was three reversals in that whole fourth section.
Just identify for me, this is a very clear one, identify for me where you picked this one out.
Okay.
The sexual relationship with this young lady.
There is not a sexual relationship.
That is accurate.
I think that is accurate.
There is not a sexual relationship.
That is accurate.
That is accurate.
Yep.
Okay.
That's where it was.
And that results in... And yes, Mick, I lost it.
You know, he'd lost control.
You know, he did something silly.
Let me hear it.
Very clear.
I didn't know who Mick was at first, and then obviously he's talking about...
Mike McCurry.
Yeah, Mike McCurry.
Reversal on the Maxwell Jordan that I don't have transferred over to this system yet.
Let me see if I can pull that one up quickly.
I'm going to have to plug in my other computer here and pull that up.
Everybody needs to understand this is all being done at the last moment, and I know your work has occurred right up until air time, so... Oh, yeah.
Bear with us on this, folks.
Yeah, this is literally hot off the press as it happens.
We're that close on this one, and I'm trying to find this file on my other system.
This is on Maxwell Jordan.
Once again, I have only just started doing reversals on this.
Um, I haven't even, uh, uh, checked this one except I do remember it was, uh, fairly clear.
Sorry.
So we're, uh, we're fine by the seat of our pants on this one.
Hello, you there?
Oh, yes.
Uh, okay, I just plugged him out of the system.
Uh, Maxwell Jordan.
No, we're not getting the audio, uh... No, I can see that.
We're not getting it.
Let me, uh, let me just try one more time on this.
No, we're not getting it.
Okay.
Simply, the reversal says, abandon him with error.
And the sense I'm getting is he's trying to distance himself from this whole thing.
Well, his forward speech yesterday seemed very supportive of the President, suggesting there was no time at which he, nor did he have knowledge of the President, ever Ask anybody to lie.
Right.
And you're suggesting that in reverse he is more or less abandoning... And that's essentially all I've got on Clinton at this current time.
Let me go back over some of the history here and some other reversals I've found on him in the past.
Alright.
This was a rather amusing one.
He's giving a speech, his eyes glance downward momentarily and actually on the videotape this looks quite amusing.
There's an attractive woman sitting in the front row.
Battling discrimination against mental illness.
Caring for children of veterans who suffer from a terrible disease.
and the back which he says sees little breast he is a little worse
see his little breasts you little worse
and what's more uh... you little worse
uh...
okay and uh...
here's an interesting reversal that i found on him uh...
right when he uh... uh...
uh...
ran uh... when he won re-election uh...
and i'm just hoping i've got it on this This has all happened so fast.
I know.
I feel that way about the whole thing, actually.
Yeah, no, I don't have it on this system.
It's on my website right when he won re-election.
He's giving his acceptance speech and he has an exceptionally clear reversal that says, the world will come and damn me.
Really predicting a very ominous future.
Indeed.
Indeed.
All right, listen, my friend, I want to thank you for coming up here tonight at the very last minute and doing this for us.
And when you have updates in the next week or so, there's going to be a very great deal of material for you.
Yes.
Let me know and we will do an update here on the air.
I am going to be devoting most of my spare time to this over the next week or so.
I can imagine.
This is a hot story.
So, well, yes, thank you for the offer.
I did check, by the way, and the link is on our site right now, so if you go to my site, folks, which you're probably used to doing, go down and just jump on.
David's name, you'll see the link there, you'll go right over to Reverse Speech or directly at www.reversespeech.com.
Or you can call the office at 1-800-669-5789.
800-669-5789 to get my book that explains the theory of reverse speech in great depth.
800-669-5789 to get my book that explains the theory of reverse speech in great depth.
We also have the machines where you can do this for yourself.
That's right, and I really do recommend people do that.
David, thank you for the short notice appearance.
Thank you very much for having me on.
I appreciate it.
You bet.
David John Oates, folks, and there you have what reversals we have on the President and Mike McCurry and company to airtime.
Here's an interesting fact from Corvallis Oregon Art.
Wasn't all this predicted by Sean David Morton?
A problem With the President.
Gore, forced to retire.
Ted Kennedy, Vice President.
Clinton saying, go ahead, impeach me.
Oh, we all laughed hard when he said it.
Now, well, frankly, I wonder, could this be the beginning of Sean David Morton's prediction?
I've tried to call several times.
I get through occasionally, but our long-distance service cuts us off after X number of rings.
And so I thought I would call that to your attention.
What I want to do, following the bottom of the hour, what I want to do is again allow you to debate this issue.
And by that I mean I want one of you who supports the President and thinks that Ken Starr is just out to get the President, Maybe somebody who believes the whole idea of a sting operation on the President of the United States regarding sexual matters is wrong, wrong, wrong.
In other words, a supporter of the President.
And then I want somebody else who is a definite detractor of the President, and frankly is overjoyed that this entire thing is occurring.
There really are many, many people like that out there.
And we will put you on the air together and allow you to debate.
Now I don't want any faint of heart debaters.
I want people who really believe what they are going to debate.
And if during this coming break I can find a couple of you that I think well represent each side, I'll put you both on the air and we will have... We'll have you debate the issue.
How about that?
I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
Music playing.
Her hair's a hollow gold, her lips a sweet surprise.
Her hands are never cold, she's got Betty Davis eyes.
She'll turn the music on you, you won't have to think twice.
She's pure as New York snow, she's got Betty Davis eyes.
Music playing.
you And, uh, continued to do so until she got one.
Right.
And then the dream went away.
So you could look at that as a prophetic dream, possibly, as well as, uh, something, uh, along the lines that we were talking about before.
Hmm.
Uh, does that frequently happen that, uh, you dream of something and dream of it until the reality arrives and then the dream stops?
Oh, definitely.
Yeah, I think it does.
One of the things that, uh, when you're Attempting to interpret dreams, it's always a good idea to first actually look at the dream as possibly having a literal meaning.
In other words, a friend of mine's father or father-in-law had a dream of his house or his cottage, his cabin, I think it was, falling off of its foundation.
I thought, well, is there something going on in his life where he feels unstable that he's losing his foundation?
Is he on the point of retiring or something like that?
What he did is he went outside and looked at the foundation and found out the house was actually about to fall off the foundation into the lake.
Oh my God.
So it was a warning dream.
It had a literal message.
A very practical dream indeed.
Holy mackerel.
West of the... Nope.
East of the Rockies.
You're on the air with McGregor's.
Hello.
Hi, Art.
Yes.
This is Bonnie in North Carolina.
Yes, Bonnie.
I want to know what they think about when you wake up and you can't decide whether you're dreaming, you're having an out-of-body experience, or how can you tell the difference between the two?
And also when you're waking up and you know you're waking, you think you're awake, and you're laying there trying to decide whether your eyes are open or shut because you're seeing these things so clearly, and then you finally realize your eyes are still shut but you know they're open.
It's real confusing to me in the morning.
Well, I think as far as the out-of-body thing, that's fairly easy to determine.
Basically, All you have to do is try and turn around or to lay down or something.
Because in an out-of-body state, nothing is solid.
So try and touch something that's solid.
If you're OBE, your hand's going to go through whatever it is.
Or your feet.
You two firmly believe it's possible to go out of body?
Oh yeah.
Yes, I think it is.
Rob?
I think out-of-body experiences and lucid dreams are two areas that are very close together and it's hard to distinguish them sometimes, but there have been some examples where people have had dreams where they've gone so-called out of their body, visiting a friend, seeing something within that house, What are we doing when we travel out of body?
How do we do that?
What is happening?
I had one experience when I was 18.
the phone the next day and mentioning that object and the person verifying that it was there,
which seemed to be a verification of the... Yes, what are we doing when we travel out of body?
How do we do that? What is happening? I had one experience when I was 18. I was in college.
There was a record on the stereo.
It was in the days when, you know, stereos, that's all we had, just record players.
And it was an old 33, and the needle had gotten stuck.
And it was late at night.
Nobody wanted to get up to change the record.
And all of a sudden, I found myself in the living room, reaching down to change the, you know, get the needle out, unstuck.
And my hand went through the record player.
And so I knew that I had just... Wow.
I was OBE, and I was conscious.
And now I've tried to induce obese, you know, before I go to sleep.
I've never had much luck at it.
But I mean, it's I think that there is another.
For all of us, there is a cocoon of energy around us, and that energy is capable of traveling.
In what realm?
Now, that's the question.
Robert Monroe was really the pioneer in that field.
I interviewed him before he passed.
Oh, boy.
Lucky you.
Lucky you.
So he, of course, he thinks there are, thought there were many dimensions.
Well, he kind of likened it all to, I think it was in his last book, likened it to an interstate with many exits.
That's right.
And he mapped that.
I mean, I cannot imagine what this man went through in his life trying to understand what was going on.
I really give him credit because he was working in a time when people weren't even open to this stuff.
Oh, that's absolutely correct.
Yeah, I mean, he, you know, He was working in the dark.
Well, there seems to be a moment, and I've come to this moment, when you're on the edge of an out-of-body experience.
You begin, your entire body begins to vibrate, you hear a very loud noise, and I have never been able to let go.
And I have interviewed people about out-of-body experiences, but I have never been able to let go.
For me, It's too frightening giving up that kind of control.
Absolutely, desperately frightening, and I jerk myself back from it.
Right.
And you're on the edge of it, though, if you would just roll out, sit up, or make the move, you would at least be able to hover about the room maybe a few seconds.
The hardest part, you've already done it, which is to set up the field of vibration.
Well, it doesn't feel like the hardest part.
The hardest part feels like letting go of control enough to do it, and I just can't do it.
I get scared, and I guess I'm kind of a control freak, and so I jerk myself back, and so I have missed the experience, but I've been right to the precipice, right to the very edge.
Well, it's a fascinating field.
It's also interesting that Monroe, really, his work was the precursor stuff to all the remote viewing, or to a lot of it.
Now, I've also interviewed most of the remote viewers from the U.S.
government program, and they are a remarkable group.
I take it that you all feel that remote viewing is absolutely a real discipline, as real as We participated for a while in Leonard Buchanan's web page
where he does these target sites.
I recommend anybody who is interested in this stuff to go to his website and to try his
targets.
It's very interesting what you come up with.
Rob and I were surprised that we got a number of hits.
Once your mind has something to direct itself to, it's remarkably easy to pick up something.
It's amazing that he can give you these numbers and you can go to relate, start getting images just on this number and that other people are doing the same numbers and getting images that they may not be exactly the same thing but having... But very close.
Right, very close.
All right, you two, listen.
Hold on.
We are at the top of the...
Dreams book from fantasies to nightmares what your dreams mean how to remember them how they affect your everyday life by Trish and Rob McGregor and Turning to page 13.
It says you spend about a third of your life asleep That means, in a lifespan of 75 years, you sleep the equivalent of 25 years, and yet, not until fairly recently, did science understand what happens during sleep.
And so it is a really important topic, a third of our lives, right?
That's it.
Oh boy.
Alright, lots of people would like to talk with you too, so here we go.
First time caller line, you're on the air with the McGregors.
Hi.
Well, hello Art.
I'd like to say hello to the McGregors as well.
Hello.
And I enjoy listening to Art's show.
I've listened to it for quite a few years.
Thank you.
I was listening to the McGregors talk about out-of-body experiences and I think I had something similar to an out-of-body experience only while I was awake.
I'm not quite sure and they might be able to help me understand what it was that happened to me.
This happened about a couple of years ago.
I was helping a friend one Saturday morning do some lawn maintenance.
We were cutting grass and it was fairly mild.
It was in the mid 80s and it was about 10 o'clock in the morning and I was up at one house mowing this yard and he was down at another house mowing the yard and we had just gotten started.
And all of a sudden I began to feel kind of funny or just out of whack.
I continued mowing this person's yard, but yet at the same time it felt like I was not there mowing the yard.
I could barely make out the sound of the mower and I was cutting the grass and everything looked kind of fuzzy.
It looked like there was some sort of darkness over the area, but yet I could still see the sun and stuff like that.
I kept on mowing the yard.
I finished it up about 20 minutes later.
And as soon as I left the area where I was at, everything was like, boom, back to normal.
And the sound of the mower picked up.
I heard all the animals and everything again.
And I kind of felt disoriented after I came out of the area where I was at.
And when I got down to my friend where he was at at the other house, Moen, I asked him if he had anything funny happen to him or if he saw anything funny happen to him and he said no he didn't.
And he asked me what was wrong and I said, I just had the strangest experience while I was cutting this one lady's yard.
And I've asked a couple of people about it and one person told me I might have had something like an inter-dimension thing happen to me.
Oh, that's really something.
I've never heard of anything quite like that.
What about you two?
Well, that is what I thought as you were describing it, that it sounded like it was almost like you were at a vortex or an interdimensional portal experience.
Well, now I'll let you know something.
There is just about a mile and a half or so up the Where do you live?
Charlotte, North Carolina.
Oh, Charlotte, okay.
Yeah, no, this happened on Lake Norman, about a mile and a half up from Lake Norman, there is a nuclear power plant.
So, I don't know if that maybe had anything to do with it.
Who knows?
I mean, that could have.
Oh, that's really a weird experience.
The only other thing I would like to ask you, do you know this woman well?
I mean, is she, is there anything going on in her life that maybe you subconsciously picked up on?
Who are you referring to?
The person who's on even more.
Oh, I'm sorry.
He's already gone.
Oh, yeah.
He's already gone.
Oh, gosh!
It didn't seem like it was a key element or even any part of his story.
It just happened.
Right.
Yeah, that's true.
Alright, Wild Card Line, you're on the air with McGregor's, hello.
Good evening, how are you doing, Art?
I hear you're moving to FM over here in Las Vegas with Tony.
That's true.
And I think I'm really glad to hear that because FM's more popular and there's so many more listeners.
And which station is it?
Well, we'll announce that in about a week.
Okay.
Alrighty, I have one question for your guest, McGregor's.
Do you think people that are schizophrenic, biopolar, or suffering from attention deficit hyperactive disorders or other abnormalities like retardation, etc., etc., that have extremely realistic dreams and do so consecutively every night, can in effect make predictions about future events more accurately than your average normal working brain person?
And listen up here.
Alright.
My take on this is that a lot of times My feeling about schizophrenia and bipolar and all this other stuff, I think these are convenient labels that the medical establishment has given because they really don't know what's going on.
Schizophrenics, to me, seem... For instance, I know one young man who has a bipolar.
First he was diagnosed as a schizophrenic and then he was diagnosed as bipolar.
This young man is extremely psychic.
He had a number of very unusual experiences as a kid.
He went to a particular school where his psychic abilities were used, should I say in a military sense?
Oh?
Yeah, this is a school for high IQ kids who had some sort of... Gift?
Yeah, some sort of gift which the medical establishment had branded as a disease.
And he...
I mean the guy, you know, he can sit down with you and you kind of see his eyes glaze over now as an adult and he can tell you things.
I know such people.
This was my first experience with anybody who was bipolar, but who was also very psychic.
And it was kind of, in a way it was pathetic that this kid spent, I mean as a kid he spent so many years trying to understand who and what he was.
I'm calling to suggest to listeners how to use lucid dreams to remember past lives, which I successfully do.
I'm calling to suggest to listeners how to use lucid dreams to remember past lives, which
I successfully do.
The way it works is I fall asleep listening to the radio and hear the radio in my sleep,
So I picked a commercial that I hear sometimes and I practiced thinking every time I hear that commercial, I will wonder if I'm dreaming.
And to test this is when I hear the commercial, I cover my ear canals with my thumbs.
If I still hear the commercial, I know I'm dreaming.
Then I remember past lives by controlling my lucid I have a lot of dreams and another method to have lucid
dreams.
It's great.
And the second method to have lucid dreams, which I find also works, is I connect it to the word it.
I keep thinking it.
I might be dreaming now, so I repeat it.
I might be dreaming now, meditating for a few minutes, so that automatically when I'm
awake or dreaming, if I say or think the word it, I automatically think I might be dreaming
now because I connected that by habit to the word it.
And to remember dreams, which works very well, is I selected for instance the word borrow
and when I'm having a lucid dream I point at something and at least three times I say
borrow, shopping center, so that I connect the content of the dream to the word borrow
so that after I wake up and I think of the word borrow, then I automatically think shopping
center and the memory comes back to me and then I just choose a new word to do the same
thing.
I think I get the idea.
Things like that that one can do to help recall dreams to enter a lucid state is that meditation.
Man was talking about the thing that Rob mentioned before about Carlos Castaneda looking for your hand in a dream and also the thing that Seth had mentioned where you train yourself to bring a camera into your dream and then you find a camera and you use it to take snapshots.
Another thing you can do is set your alarm and wake up during the night.
I don't recommend it for people who have trouble sleeping, but it's one way of triggering dreams because when the alarm goes off you pull up out of a dream and have a better chance of recalling the dream.
The important thing is to Not get lazy about it and go back to sleep, but write down that dream.
Have a dream journal right by your side or a tape recorder because you won't remember it if you just fall back asleep.
Do the two of you ever think there will be a way for us to, in effect, record dreams?
Record them?
You mean like visually?
Like on a VCR.
In other words, to come up with some sort of device that would actually record That's a great idea.
Well, you know, according to Seth, all inventions begin with an idea.
He believes that they begin in a dream state, that basically all the civilizations that have existed, existed first as a dream.
Well, what I'm suggesting is, if you could record a dream, If that technology were to become available, and I think that it could, then you could play back a dream.
Or you could, in effect, set a dream machine and have a dream at command.
Or set a timer.
Just like a VCR, set a timer to have a dream.
That's a great idea.
It sure is.
Invented, Art.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with McGregor's.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi, Art.
Hi.
This is Joey.
I tell you that I have lost my sight within the last three years and dreaming is one of the most true connections in the feeling of disconnection because I see so very well now in my dreams.
Do you?
Yeah, and I'm able to recall my dreams just by Clearing my mind and letting that feeling come back and there seems to be some kind of feeling of just pleasantry and then the feeling and the imagery all develops.
It's so amazing that I've been able to do, I've actually been able to go out and surf because I had many, many visual, full color, brilliant color dreams and I finally just got up one morning and said, I have to go to the beach.
My mom and dad said, no don't go up there, but I called a friend and she came over and we ended up pedaling out and had a wonderful time and I was told in one of my living beyond sight loss is that that is a very, very highly skilled thing that Olympic trainers do, that they visualize and basically dream everything mentally.
to really establish that programming. How old are you now?
I am 30 years old. Wow. Yeah.
And well I had another dream, well I kind of wanted to have a little dream reading.
I had a dream about 10 years back and I was in a little state of rebellion with friends
and well they turned up at a small cafe which is me there and they were standing on the
edges of these cafe benches and they had wings on and they were looking at me and telling
me come on Joey, come on.
It was very strange because I ended up going to this place where there were many people but the ladies were not allowed to talk and the men talked in forms of telepathy and I was just It was one of the most vivid high-energy dreams that I've ever had.
Well, I go upstairs and there's this three-year-old riding a tricycle, a very young, young child riding a tricycle upstairs, saying, the lady's going to fall.
Well, a grandmother came around the corner and fell down the stairs.
And well, when they said, come on, Joey, and I was saying in my mind, no, I belong to the Creator.
I belong to the Creator.
And I came back into the corner of my room and I had a friend sleeping on the other couch and I was sleeping and I could see myself and him and this was very high energy.
I could see both of us sleeping there and I was up in the corner of the room and I mean it had so much feeling and emotion to it.
Well that sounds like you were out of body.
Yeah, sure does.
I really, I really was like, I felt like I was out of body and I never heard about it until I started listening Well, you may well have been out of body.
I'd say that's a classic, where you're up in a corner of a room and looking down.
That's classical, O.B.
Sounds like you had some angelic connections there, too.
All right.
Flying dreams.
That is one thing I have a lot of, is flying dreams.
And it's about the only category of dream that I can really say I like.
I love to fly.
And I've had every form of flying dream you can imagine, from being on top of the tallest building in New York City and having somebody sprinkle some sort of fairy dust on me and just sort of floating out across the city, New York City, to flying over treetops and houses and low-level flying and just really having a blast.
Now, in real life, I've tried to fly.
I went hang gliding and broke my arm.
I'm not a good flyer.
I crash a lot.
You say you've never had an OBE, but that's basically what you've had.
Well, you're telling me that flying dreams are OBEs?
Quite often.
They can be, but not necessarily.
When you have these flying dreams, is there a sense that you've done this before, and that it's easy, and how come you can't remember this?
Does that ever occur to you?
I don't think so.
Generally, I don't reference, for example, in one dream other dreams or the sense that I've done this before.
It's always like it's new.
Right.
For me, I have these flying dreams where I'm running and I'm taking larger and larger loping steps and then I'm off the ground and leaping over the trees and flying and it's always the Feeling that, of course.
I'm doing it again.
Why can't I remember this?
Lucky you.
I can recall having flown like Superman, taking about three giant hops and leaping into the air.
Yeah.
I've done that.
All right.
First time caller line, you're on the air with the McGregors.
Hello.
Hi.
How you doing?
Okay.
All right.
I got a dream.
Let me turn my radio down.
I keep having this recurring dream.
Where are you?
I'm calling from Florida.
Okay.
Okay.
I'm an attorney.
And the dream that I have is that I'm constantly back either in law school or college or high school and I'm missing a class and I can't graduate.
I mean, it keeps hitting me over and over and over again.
It's very frustrating.
I wake up, of course, and I breathe a sigh of relief while I did everything I had to do.
So interpret!
That's one of the very common dream themes, and that's called the college dream.
You're taking an exam without studying, or you haven't gone to class at all, and basically It's related to a sense of not being prepared about something in your life.
If you look at the time of that dream, you may have something coming up where you're concerned that you really weren't quite ready for this.
Okay.
Does that sound right?
I don't know if it's so much as not being prepared for the dream.
It's always the same thing that I wake up and I'm I'm missing something.
I'm missing a class.
May I ask you a question?
You're an attorney, right?
Right.
Do you ever dream of being at the bottom of the ocean?
No.
No.
No, and I don't dream of lawyer jokes either.
All right.
Do you ever dream of being at the bottom of the ratings pile?
All the time, yes.
It's a nightmare.
Thank you very much, and McGregor's hold on.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
I'm Art Bell, and from an area near Dreamland, this is Dreamland.
Let me give the McGregors an opportunity to plug their book.
It's a long book.
It's 288 pages long.
And if somebody out there wanted to get it, where would they go?
Borders, Barnes & Noble.
Everywhere, huh?
Yeah, just about everywhere.
And the bookstore is sold out.
They can just put in an order for another one.
So, in other words, if they don't have it immediately available, it's going to be in the computer?
It should be.
And also, if they're on the Internet, they can order it through Amazon.com.
Ah, yes.
Amazon.com.
All right, here we go, folks.
First time caller line, you're on the air with the McGregors.
Hello.
Hi.
Hi.
This is Richard from Seneca, Missouri.
Hi.
And I had a dream, it's probably been three to five years ago, that really stuck in my mind.
And it was one of the few times that I ever actually got up and wrote it down because it was so vivid.
And it had a name.
The building was a very futuristic looking building.
It was kind of an underground structure.
And inside they were doing some kind of medical stuff.
That's all I know about that.
And when I came outside of this building there was a wall and it was like granite.
And in this wall there was these square letters and the name Lieutenant W.L.
Briggs was in the stone.
And it was so vivid and I don't know anyone with that name.
I've never known anyone by the name of Briggs and I've tried to look up to see if it was someone I'd read in history or something.
But I don't know why that name has really bothered me and like I say it's been probably Three or five years ago, and it's just really stuck with me.
Did you have any sense of the time of that dream?
It seemed as though it was in present time, but like I say, the buildings and stuff looked futuristic, and it was real gray.
There was no color at all in this dream.
Well, granite is something that I think it was Carl Jung used to mention as being a There's something definitely archetypal about your dream.
It could be that it pertains to something that's still in your future, which would explain why you don't know who this Briggs is.
Basically, I would be aware of it.
If you meet anybody named Briggs, either ask them who they are or run in the other direction.
I've been real aware of that name ever since.
When I sit in an obituary or anything, I try to read about it.
Or maybe it's you in a future life.
Maybe it is.
How odd.
Alright, thank you very much.
The attorney who we had on just before the bottom of the hour brought up a very interesting subject.
People in my business, and businesses like mine I suppose, probably actors, people who work in television, people who work in radio, people who work in the media, are notoriously insecure.
And that seems to produce a lot of dreams also, in insecurities, is that correct?
That's definitely true.
We have our share of insecure writer dreams.
Insecure, really.
Alright, Wild Card Line, you're on the air with the McGregors, hello.
Hi, Art, I'm a little nervous.
Me too.
I don't know how to tell you this, but when you were doing your interview with Brad Steiger, I knocked on your door.
You did not.
I went to sleep, and when you started the show, and I had a dream about flying to your place, I knocked on your door, didn't answer.
I got frustrated, and I thought, well, he's going to hear this.
And I hit it with my fist, and it woke me up.
All right.
All right.
Well, let me tell the McGregors about this.
One night I was interviewing Brad Steiger.
I take it you know who he is.
Yes, I do.
And I had three sharp houndings, boom, boom, boom, on my door.
And it scared the hell out of me.
And I, you know, I work from home, and so I got up during the break and went out, and look, and my wife was asleep in bed, and the cats were in there.
Nobody banged on the door.
Nobody was there to bang on the door, but I'm telling you, these bangs Well, if you've ever seen a movie where a door bows inward, it was like that strong.
Boom!
While I was on the air.
And that's what that caller was talking about.
And of course, he was claiming he was the one who did the bangs.
Well, maybe he was.
That's interesting.
Yeah, it is interesting.
This brings us, Rob, to that thing we were talking about before where sometimes, quite often I think, events in your waking life are things you can interpret like you might have dreamed.
In fact, something that happened to Carl Jung and Sigmund Freud as they were talking, actually in a heated argument.
about psychic dreams, psychic abilities and dreams, very similar to this.
Jung was describing these dreams as being realistic and Freud was dismissing them and all of a sudden there was an explosion on Jung's bookcase and they both looked up at this loud noise and Freud got up and left and never mentioned it again.
Wow.
It reminded me of... We had an experience similar to this, all right, for about four months.
We had these, like, shelves in our closet, and the shelves would periodically fall.
I mean, it was like a big crash in the middle of the night.
Right.
And the first time it happened, Rob got news that his father had gone to the hospital about two days later.
So this kind of stuck in my mind.
And the next time it happened, It was on my side of the closet and something, I don't know, catastrophic happened in my life with my parents.
The next time it happened, Rob was nominated for an Edgar.
But it always, it was either his side or my side.
And finally, we fixed it so that this can't happen anymore.
So the shelves can't fall.
I understand.
There are other things that happen, you know, like your, say your toilet overflows.
Okay, well, you have to ask yourself, well, what is it in my life that is overflowing or what is blocked?
In other words, that's the ultimate message of our book, is that attempt to use the same method as you interpret dreams as interpreting the dramas in your own life.
Exactly.
Looking for meanings.
Well, with reference to the overflowing toilet, I'm not sure we want to go there.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with the McGregors.
Hello.
Thank you very much.
This is Teresa from Cincinnati.
Hi.
I have a recurring dream about these babies.
I keep dreaming about babies that I just love this baby and it's but it's hungry and I never have food for it.
I never have clothes.
I look in my cupboard and I don't even have any baby food and I don't have any milk and I'm thinking I better hurry up this baby's gonna die if I don't do something about this and how come I don't have the things for this baby and the baby looks sometimes maybe a couple of times the babies are dead.
Sometimes they're just halfway alive.
Is there any kind of a historical sense to this?
I mean, are you dressed in different clothing?
I'm not even to help them, but it keeps going on and I'm 70 years old for goodness sake
and I'm still dreaming about them.
Is there any kind of a historical sense to this?
I mean are you dressed in different clothing?
No but I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but I was two pounds when I was
born and not breathing and my grandmother breathed into me and all my daughters boarding
babies at the clinic and I'm just in so grief for that, but that's lately, I made her leave
home for that, but that's something lately, but this is forever.
I keep on, it's driving me crazy because it happens at least every week and I think I
can't find anything to feed this baby and I'm just absolutely full of grief because
I love this baby and I can't find anything to feed.
At what point do you wake up from this dream?
I wake up from it when I'm completely frustrated and almost ready to scream and cry because the baby needs me and I can't find anything to help it.
My sense of this dream is that this very well could be a past life dream.
Especially because you're talking about how often it happens.
Once a week is a lot.
It could be that in a past life you had such a child or you were such a child and you were unable to find the nourishment that you needed, either physical, emotional, spiritual, whatever.
And that's the memory that's stuck with you.
So I have another interpretation to present.
As we said, there are always different possibilities and I think this could be a part of yourself that is undeveloped.
Dispossessed.
Right, and that your subconscious, your unconscious mind keeps bringing up again maybe a talent that went undeveloped in your life.
That you always wanted to pursue something that you were blocked from doing, and it's recurring in the image of a child.
Oh, that's remarkable.
Well, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with the McGregors.
Hello.
Hi, Art.
I've been listening to you for about a year, and I'm really enjoying the show tonight.
Thank you.
Back before the break, your guests, the McGregors, were talking about the flying dreams and the sensation that, you know, why can't I remember this?
I've done it before, and how come I can't remember?
That hit me.
Really, really strongly.
I was wondering if they could possibly say anything more about it.
That was you talking, Rob.
Say it.
That's what happens to me when I have these flying dreams.
It's so obvious that it's so easy to do.
Exactly.
It's that other part of ourselves, the invisible part, the non-physical part of ourselves that we are in More fully at that point.
It's almost like going home or something.
This is where we're from.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me.
It's exactly how I feel too.
I've never heard it expressed that way before.
Thanks a lot.
Keep flying.
Thank you.
Indeed.
First time caller line, you're on the air with McGregor's.
Where are you, please?
El Paso.
Hi, Bill.
Hi.
We love your show.
Thank you.
I want to ask a question from McGregor's.
This is for my husband.
He had this dream when he was young.
And he's up in the sky, like, it's all, you know, white.
I figure it's the sky, I don't know.
But he said that he senses two presences on each side of him, and that one is pointing down, and my husband's looking through a mirror, I mean a window, and through the window he's looking down at water, and they're trying to explain something to him, and tell him about something, but he doesn't know what it is.
Let me just mention there was a psychiatrist named Judith Orloff.
I think I mentioned her book before called Second Sight.
And she talks in there about a dream that she actually recovered through regression.
And in the dream she was in utero.
Her mother was five months pregnant with her and was going to have surgery for fibroid tumors.
And while the surgery was going on she, as a fetus, She saw herself going to a farmhouse, and out in front of that farmhouse was a blonde woman, her husband, and two teenage sons.
And she felt very strongly that this was her actual family, and that this family, she said, was with her throughout her mother's pregnancy.
And I'm wondering, there were just some elements of the way you described your husband's dream, if this could be something similar, that these two presences might have been people who had, you know, entities or whatever that had accompanied him from before birth, you know, up until he was a young, you know, what, maybe he went through puberty or something.
Uh-huh.
Well, his mom died when he was 10.
I mean, that could be, that could be part of it, you know?
Uh-huh.
The window, quite often in dreams, windows tend to symbolize, you know, the things we were talking about before about a portal, a doorway to something Why do we have recurring dreams?
Is it because something is trying to get worked out?
I mean, is it continued?
I'm not sure if he has or not.
He said he's had a recurring dream about it.
Why do we have recurring dreams?
Is it because something is trying to get worked out?
Something needs to be worked out?
Why do we have recurring dreams?
I think there are a lot of reasons.
I think it can be something that needs to be worked out, certainly.
That's on a basic level.
But also, it could be that some type of memory, some type of cellular memory or past life memory is trying to come through at a particular point in our life where we need that knowledge.
These are also reference points.
These are our typical dreams.
Dreams of falling, flying, finding buried money, the college dream, losing money or a purse or luggage, taking a trainer, a bus trip, losing your teeth is another strange one, or the nude dream, finding yourself without any clothes in a public place.
These are all recurring dreams that most of us have.
I actually did that, I'm told, when I was young.
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