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Jan. 14, 1998 - Art Bell

01:24:22

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Zahi Hawass - Ancient Egypt

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29:10

dr zahi hawass

41:51

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Eight hundred ks tp from the high desert in the great American Southwest,
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bid you all good evening, or good morning, as the case may be, across all these many time zones, stretching commercially from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands in the west, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, and actually in the Newfoundlands, which may be a little further east.
		We're arguing about that now.
		South end to South America, north to the pole, and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM.
		I'm Art Bell, and I'm not going to pull any punches with you, folks.
		I am sick as a dog.
		My flu has come roaring back, as has my wife's.
		We're running temperatures of around 102.
		However, I absolutely had to get the interview in tonight that I'm about to do, so sick or not, I'm going to do it.
		My guest tonight is Dr. Zahi Awass, who is Director of Antiquities at Giza in Egypt.
		That's where the pyramids and the Sphinx are.
		That's what he takes care of.
		And we're going to talk with him in a few moments.
		This is kind of a prelude to a cruise which is going to take place in May, May 10th through the 17th.
		It's going to be wild.
		On that cruise will be Dr. Zahia Wass, the man you're about to hear from, Daniel Brinkley, you know well, Graham Hancock, Robert Baval, Dr. Ed Krupp, and I will try and moderate all of this.
		So, it's going to be wild.
		Now, if you would like to come along on this cruise, I'm going to give you the relevant phone numbers right now.
		You can still come along.
		Nationwide, with the exception of California, the number is 1-800-888-5509.
		That's 1-800-888-5509.
		If you're in California, call Area Code 310-568-0138.
		That's Area Code 310-568-0138.
		In a moment, Dr. Zahi Hoas.
		Now, all right, here is Dr. Zahi Hoas, Director of Antiquities for Giza in Egypt.
		Doctor, welcome to the program.
		Thank you.
		How are you, Art?
		I am fine.
		If you don't count, no, I'm not fine.
		I'm sick.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I'm very sorry to hear that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's all right.
		I want to get through.
		Look, I wouldn't miss this for the world.
		You are and have been described, and I believe you are, a very powerful man in Egypt.
		Is that true?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		No, I am not.
		I'm a very modest man.
		I'm not a powerful man or anything.
unidentified		I think my work talks about this.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		But before really we talk, I want to tell you something hard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		You remember when you called me last summer and you wanted to put me in your show?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I recall.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I told you I cannot do it until we meet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		And therefore, when you came to Egypt and I took you around, that was very important to me before we can make really this show.
unidentified		Well, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's cover that.
		Of course, you are very strong.
		And how old are you, Doctor?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I am 50, 5'0.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		50.
		You're 50.
		Well, you ran around the Giza like a little child, and I panted and huffed and puffed and nearly fainted trying to keep up with you.
		So you're certainly a very strong man.
		There's no question about that.
		I've got to say this, Doctor.
		If there is something at Giza that you did not want me to see, now I want to tell the audience, you gave me carte blanche.
		You signed papers and you took me around and you had your people, you said go anywhere he wants.
		That's true.
		But if there was something there, doctor, that you did not want me to see, I'm sure that I would not have known where to look.
		Is that fair?
		Fair, of course.
		So there could be something there that I would have certainly missed.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I am sure of that.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		In Graham Hancock's book, Zahi Wass was quoted as saying that the Sphinx is the soul, the soul of Egypt.
		Dr. Wass is portrayed as a man who derides the Edgar Casey prophecies regarding the Sphinx.
		Wouldn't it be in his interest to find nothing that would prove the Egyptians did not build the Sphinx?
unidentified		Oh.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Do you mean that maybe something like this would be found?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		You know, as I told you last time when we meet that, of course, you know, I am a person really who have an open mind.
		I always try to investigate anything.
		And even if anyone will talk to me about something, I try to look for that.
		You know, the only objection that, you know, maybe this fight that happened for the last two years, that I never really respond at all, it's because I thought that trying to respond, maybe it's a wasting of a time.
		And what I did for the last two years is working, excavating, trying to reveal the secrets from the fan.
		And therefore, you know, this time when I decided really to attend this debate after this long fight, I call it really a fight.
unidentified		It was like a war.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like a war, yes.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		And what's really happening, there is many accusations that they were saying, all of them, against me, which I believe it is not true.
		Because there is many things.
		Okay, when they talked even in the last Kemet issue about my relation with the Casey Foundation, which I do not deny that, but the only thing, the only thing that my relation with the Casey was that I met Euling Casey.
		But I am always saying to people, if you are a scientist, you can come and work in the pyramid.
		If you are not a scientist, you have to take your idea and go to any university in the United States or a museum and convince them and come and work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When I was in your office at Giza, I asked you about John Anthony West, and you said, by law, John Anthony West is not allowed on Giza.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You remember that?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I remember that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you now come to some terms?
		I understand that John Anthony West was over there and met with you.
		Is that true?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		He came to see me, and I think if you talk to him again, maybe he will tell you what's happened between us.
		I think he understood now completely my side.
		You know, I told him, John, I don't really have anything against you personally.
		I'm not your enemy, as you said once in the Internet.
		He said, I'm his real enemy, and he said many other things that maybe I cannot say in your show.
		I told him, if you will go to any university and convince them with your theory, come through this university and work.
		But you, as an individual, you know, if you open the pyramids, you know, to amateurs and people who doesn't have a degree in archaeology or scientists, you have billions of ideas that everyone will try to prove a theory.
		And that's not really fair art for the pyramids and the saints.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Listen, a terrible, terrible tragedy, a second tragedy, occurred at Luxor.
		And I have information, Dr. Hawass, that it was really much worse than reported in the press, that there was raping and atrocities, terrible atrocities committed at Luxor.
		And I know that all of this has hurt the tourist industry in Egypt.
		Can you give me some idea of the impact this has had on the tourist industry in Egypt?
		You know, Art, when this accident happened...
		I mean, this massacre, this thing really was.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I call it accident because I do not believe until now that happened.
		And we Egyptians do not even believe that this has happened.
		Because this has happened once in our history, 3,000 years ago.
		One king from Dynasty 18, he came and brought young princes and he hanged them on the gates of Thebes and Luxor.
		But the Egyptians in general, they are not really that type of people who do such a thing like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		And this is why the thing that we learned from this massacre, really, that the Egyptians, all of them, are against terrorists.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Completely now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, I asked, how much has it hurt the tourist industry?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		It did hurt a lot.
		I mean, we used to have 4,000 people to visit the pyramids.
		Now there are 700.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		But the most important thing, that after this accident, we upgraded all the sites.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		The security were completely upgraded.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have heard that when you go now to Egypt, you will see men with guns almost everywhere.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Especially the sites were protected really scientifically for the first time with really care that the government now understood that the Egyptians, because you know, from every family in Egypt, there is someone who's working in tourism.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Means we lost a lot because of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		And therefore, the Egyptians, not the government, the Egyptians with the government are trying now to show to the people that this will never happen again.
		It will never happen again because of what I see now in all the artistical fight.
		The security is very tight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I guess the security was not very tight for that horrible slaughter to go on over many, many, many hours.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		It was not because no one can believe that something like this can happen.
		We never believed that.
		You know, we don't believe that those people who did it are real Egyptians.
		Because in general, what I say about the Egyptians, you know, when I ask many people when they visit Egypt, what did you like the most in Egypt?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		They don't tell me the pyramids or the things.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		They say the people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The people.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		The people are very nice and they're very helpful.
		Then if you have six people from 62 million to do that, that was strange.
		And that was something that we could not believe that happened.
		And this is why we want to guarantee everyone that this will never happen again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hope it doesn't.
		When I was there, there was a great deal of construction around the Sphinx, and you were restoring the Sphinx.
		Now, it's my understanding that the restoration is complete.
		In fact, CNN and other networks here in America are reporting and showing photographs of the completed work on the Sphinx in the United States.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		For the last month, just one week before I came here, I did not, you know, I'm working every day from 7 in the morning until 10 in the evening.
		On the morning of the day of the 21st of December, it was the first time that the Sphinx was smiling.
		You know, when this loxer happened, massacre happened, I said in an interview for the CBS, I said the Sphinx is sad.
		The Sphinx is not smiling.
		I meant by the Sphinx that all of us are Egyptians, are very sad because of what's happened.
		That's why on the day, in the morning of the 25th, When we took all the scuffling out from the Sphinx, it was a day.
		It was an important day that now the Sphinx is restored, the Sphinx is safe, the Sphinx is smiling.
		And in the other, also, we finished ten tombs to be opened for the first time to the public.
		We'll open the third pyramid.
		Next week, when I go back, our president will come to the Sphinx and announce to the world that we restored the Sphinx.
		And we'll open also the pyramids of the Queens of Cheops.
		But we will close the Great Pyramid for six months.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You will close the Great Pyramid for six months?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		I mean, this is the first time really I say that.
		Why are you doing that?
		You know, Art, pyramids need to have relax.
		They need restoration.
		You cannot leave the pyramid that 4,000 people a day will enter inside without doing restoration and doing ventilation and doing things like that.
		And this is why the Great Pyramid was open for the last six years.
		And we needed to do some work inside for six months.
		Then I'm telling the people who are not hiding anything, who are going to announce.
		And in the same time, we are going to allow the people who will enter to have meditation.
		We are not going to stop that.
		We'll continue that.
unidentified		We'll just stop the visitors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The big mass of visitors, 4,000.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		We'll stop that for six months until we do the restoration and the conservation.
		But we are going to allow the metaphysical groups who come to the pyramids and they stay two hours to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think, honestly, yourself, of these groups?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you laugh at them?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, at all.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		You know, I'm a friend of many people of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know that.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I do not laugh at them at all.
		I say to the people all the time, look at other esophagus.
		They never really respond to any other theory except esoteric.
		I'm doing that.
		I'm, you know, I met Graham Hancock and I met Robert Buffalo, and we are trying, I think, this coming debate, as people are saying that the boat will be shaking in May.
		It is going to be, because this is the first time that we are going really to meet together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is said, Doctor, that you at one time said that if Robert Buval and Graham Hancock showed up at Giza, you would behead them and throw them in a pit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you say something like that?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		That's not true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not true.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		You know, they come to Giza all the time and they do films.
		I give them permissions to do their films.
		I give them permission to do anything.
		Graham Hancock and Robert Buffal and John West.
		Jean-West come to the pyramid at least five times a month.
		Ask him if I did ever try to stop him or doing anything.
		As a matter of fact, I will tell you something.
		I was in his side last month for something that I will not reveal now, but I protected him because I feel, you know, I am not this guy who will take advantage of anyone to do anything like that.
		I'm an archaeologist.
		You saw me working in the dirt.
		I went a meeting that day with the minister, which I had to wear a suit.
		But, you know, with my jeans and my hat in the pyramids, I search around every piece of sand.
		I try to reveal the truth, which is true.
		I think always that I have a mission in my life, and the mission is to reveal the truth.
		I never blocked my mind of any idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, let's talk about that a little bit.
		In 1991, Dr. Jubecki, working with the John West team, undertook a series of seismic tests in the vicinity of the Sphinx.
		In one area, in front of the Sphinx and valley temples, his tests showed various tunnels and structures which have recently successfully been uncovered by yourself and your excavation team.
		Dr. DeBecki's studies also suggested the existence of a rectangular anomaly, possibly man-made, measuring 9 by 12 meters, about 11 meters beneath the paws of the Sphinx.
		Have you any intention of excavating this area as well in the near future?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		You know, Art, I was going to leave all of this for you as a moderator and a judge in this debate to talk about.
		But I will tell you one thing about that.
		You know, it's true that they said that, and they have the report.
		And Florida State University, as you know, they said that.
		But in 1977, Stanford Research Institute, they came to Egypt and they did, they used radar and they sit in front of the two poles of the Sphinx.
		And on the right side of the pole of the Sphinx, there is this room.
		And they asked it to drill that.
		And they wrote a proposal to the permit committee in Egypt, which they are the people who are responsible to give permissions.
		It is not me, as everyone is saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, if they give permission, can you say no?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		No, I can't.
		But I can explain to them my point of view.
		I can tell them why I do not agree on this.
		And we make votes.
		And of course, I am one vote.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One vote.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		We have given 30 votes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And is it democratic?
		In other words, is it majority rules?
		Or if you vote no, I have heard that usually the answer is going to be no.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I am not the head of the committee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand that.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		The head of the committee should really do that, but I am one member.
		You know, I am outspoken.
		I can talk.
		I can't hide my feeling in a meeting.
		I can't be a procratic person and just say yes, sir.
		I'm not a yes, sir, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when Zahi Yawa speaks, though, people listen, and usually it goes your way, doesn't it?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		But it's not true, Art, really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not sure of it.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		It's my way.
		But I will tell you why it's my way.
		When the Florida State University asked it to drill that, the reason that we refused it in that time is because the Stanford Research Institute did the drilling in 1977.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Dr. Hulman, we are at the bottom of the hour.
		Take a break and we'll be right back.
		My guest is the very powerful Dr. Zahi Hawas.
		I'm Art Bell from the High Desert.
		You're listening to Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Keep it right where you've got it.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. from the Kingdom of Nai.
		Now, once again, here's Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here I am.
		My guest is Dr. Zahi Hawass, Director of Antiquities at Giza in Egypt.
		We'll get right back to him.
		Dr. Zahi Hawass.
		Dr. Hawass, in 1997, Dr. Shore's expedition used a radar at the bottom of the well under the causeway, the one that I got to explore on my recent trip.
		The results seem to indicate that there is no box under the black granite sarcophagus lid.
		But the radar did indicate a possible tunnel two to three meters below the lid.
		They think that there is a tunnel down there which might connect the second pyramid with a room or rooms under the Sphinx.
		Since the soil has already been disturbed in that area, why have they not been allowed to excavate?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I first would like to congratulate you because you have what kind of, what's your source?
		You always really have Good, strong information Yes And I really have this third I better not.
		Okay.
		Now, I will tell you exactly that I believe in this coming May, in this debate, I believe it will be a time that three important things is going to be investigated.
		And these three places, I believe it is the places that everyone wonder about.
		And those are the three places that you do not see.
		The first place is the things.
		That on the north side of the things, there is a tunnel that was opened in 1926.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		And this tunnel was, we would like to reopen it again because we'd like this is cutting exactly the middle of the things.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		And I believe when we open it, we can really understand exactly what's underneath the things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I saw some video of you standing right at that opening saying that, yes, you were going to open it and investigate.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		No, that is another tunnel that we opened this tunnel about, I believe, about nine years ago.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		And that panel is located on the tail of the Sphinx and goes inside the button of the Sphinx about 45 feet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		You remember I showed this to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do, yes.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		But the other panel that we will open is a panel that's located in the middle of the Sphinx, in the north side of the Sphinx.
		The second important thing is this door or a stone that has been found by Gentin Brink inside the pyramid with two copper handles.
		We are in the process now of trying to find out what is behind this stone or this door.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		What do you hope to find?
		You are going to attempt then to breach the door found by Genton Brink.
		What do you imagine you might find?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		You know, I really do not, I cannot really answer this question until we'll take the photograph to see what's behind this door.
		And I hope that in this coming May, in the cruise, I could have in my hand the information to tell everyone about that.
		Because I really believe that, you know, when Daniel Franklin came to see me in Egypt, and I met him for the first time, and I said, Daniel, what do you want to see here?
		And he said, I want to see this and this and this.
		Then I said, Daniel, take this permission and go without me and see anything that you want in the pyramid.
		What I want to say from, and Daniel came after that and said, Zahi, I want you to meet the people who talk about you.
		You have to face them.
		I said, Daniel, I am not ready.
		There is always a time I feel in a way that I talk to myself and I know when exactly I can talk to people or when I cannot talk.
		And I said, Daniel, no, I will never debate with Robert Gofall or Graham Hancock or John West.
		There is no way I will do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why are you doing that now?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I really do not know.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I said one thing when I talked to Daniel last time, when I was here in summer, I said, Daniel, I think I believe that the people who are listening to us now are the people who listened to your show for the last two years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And they think that I'm the bad guy.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I think there is a time that they should see this bad guy talk to them and tell them the truth.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Whatever there is something or whatever there is nothing there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Awas, do you think you have a bad temper?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes they do.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes they do.
		And this is why I believe if the boat is shaking, I said in a lecture about two weeks ago in Japan.
		Then they said, what's going to happen in this cruise?
		I said, I hope that Aunt Bill, the moderator, will be able to control that no one can be thrown in the water.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the water, I hope that doesn't happen too.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		We really depend on you that, you know, my timber sometimes goes when I hear, you know, when I hear some people accusing me of many things, like hiding evidence, how can I hide important evidence that they discover?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you could, though.
unidentified		I mean, you could.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I told you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it's like me, Doctor.
		I went over there, and yes, you let me go anywhere, but I would not know where to go.
		Daniel Brinkley would not know where to go if there was something you discovered that you wanted to keep secret.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		No, you know, I'll tell you, when I discover something, Arthur, I do not announce it the first minute.
		I have to wait until I discuss it very well, until I photograph it well, until I see what is it.
		The difference between me and Andeana Jones, that Andiana Jones go in a tunnel quickly.
		No, I clean the tunnel step by step.
		I take a photograph of that tunnel, I draw the tunnel, and I see it to the end.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you don't go barging in like Indiana Jones.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, on camera again, you explained that you wanted to excavate this passage further and explore where it might lead.
		Considering this statement, one would assume that the only thing preventing you from digging now might be your own government.
		So the $64,000 question is, who's stopping you from digging?
		An Egyptian official, President Mubarak, perhaps himself?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no one really stopped us from digging anything.
		It's in a time that we did not do anything around the Sphinx because the Sphinx was sick.
		You know, the Sphinx is the symbol of the world.
		The Sphinx is the symbol for everyone.
unidentified		And therefore, I'm the person who is supposed to take care of it.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		See, I do not waste my time, you know, to open something.
		There is a time to open it.
		The Sphinx will never go away from this place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is there.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		But what's important, art, is to keep it safe.
		And therefore, for the last 10 years, I was so busy in trying to make the Sphinx in a good shape.
		We finished it now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have done that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's beautiful.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		But no one can stop me on working in anything at the Giza Plateau.
		I'm the director of the site.
		I have the right by the law to excavate anything in any time, in any place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You have said the idea of a hall of records under the Sphinx is so much, quote, new age fantasy, end quote.
		Further, you have publicly discounted the work of John Anthony West, DeBecky, Baval, Hancock.
		So the question is this.
		You've told us what you believe.
		The Sphinx is an ancient wonder facing the sun, a monument carved during the time of Sefron.
		It's antiquity's voice in stone, but nothing more.
		There are no chambers beneath the Sphinx, the paws of the Sphinx.
		There are no buried records from the people of Atlantis.
		And I know that's a word that usually gets you going.
		But what if you're wrong?
		Is it possible?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
		If I'm wrong, fine.
		You know, I'm telling everyone, I am right until this moment, until you prove to me that I'm wrong.
		Then what I am trying, I told you, the reason that we did not drill in front of the things pole is because of two reasons.
		Number one, that Stanford Research Institute did the same drilling in the same location in 1977.
		And number two, you have to prove to me, 100%, that there is something there.
		You cannot just, I told you, who in the radar will show something.
		It could be the anomaly, it could be a natural crack, it could be a room.
		Then that area especially, it was investigated before, that I told the people many times, I do not want to drill a hole for the sake of a Fox TV movie or a film.
		I want to drill a hole for the sake of science, for the sake to find something really accurate.
		And I do not mind if anything of advance has been found.
		And I'm not against it.
		I'm against the accusation of people that they say I'm hiding it now.
		You know, I saw in the internet last week, someone, Larry Hunter, came to Egypt and he put in the internet that I am discovering something in the Great Pyramid.
		I'm trying to hide this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, people will be naturally suspicious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have just told us you are going to close the Great Pyramid to the public.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		But this is why I'm saying the reasons are for the sake of the Great Pyramid.
unidentified		Part.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		If anyone will come to Egypt and he has suspicions, he wants to enter inside, I will give him permission.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I am telling you this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At the top, Doctor, of the Great Pyramid, as you know, there is a very small entrance, and there are, I believe, five chambers up above the main chamber.
		And you have been doing some excavating and digging there.
		If you close the Great Pyramid, are you going to be doing excavation in those areas?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		No.
		You know, when I did a TV debate with West and Boffal and Hancock from Italy last summer, they said that the inscriptions in these five rooms are ordered, written by us or by people who entered in these rooms in the last century.
		Then what I did, I entered and I excavated those rooms.
		I tried to find the truth.
		You know, we cleaned the five rooms.
		I took the stones away and we throw the stones down.
		And I recorded by myself every inscription in every room.
		I have the slides of that.
		Then in the truth, I will show you art in front of you every room of what's inside the room by a video and by slides.
		I found only inscriptions inside the five rooms.
		I did not find anything.
		I excavated completely the five rooms, but stones were falling down from the five rooms.
		Therefore, they took one stone and they began to say that we found something.
		They should come to ask me.
		I met Larry Hunter.
		I said, Larry, I did not find anything.
		We are cleaning the five rooms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There were many bags full of stones that people took photographs of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had those photographs.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		What's wrong with that?
		The five rooms was full of stones.
		Then I cleaned them.
		Then we were able to undertake to draw the inscriptions inside the five rooms.
		And therefore, we had to clean them.
		If you clean them, you have to take the stones down.
		Then the workmen were transporting the stones out of the pyramid.
		But anyone wanted to try to, I mean, for the last months, many people entered.
		I gave them permission.
		I said, go and look and see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have, Doctor, one of those stones that somebody gave me.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		And...
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		You know, they're not supposed to take stones from the pyramid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I understand.
		Nevertheless, somebody did give me one, and I performed a very interesting experiment with it.
		If you take this stone, which came from deep inside these rooms, and you hold it adjacent to a radium dial watch, it causes the watch to glow.
		Have you any idea why that might be?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I was holding stones like this in my hand.
		Maybe I'm untouchable.
unidentified		Maybe the stones doesn't do anything with me.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		You know, I don't really believe in this pyramid power at all.
		You know, when I heard it the first time, 15 years ago, Art, I bought a pound of meat and I put half of it inside the Great Pyramid.
		And I put the other half inside my office.
		And after a couple of days, I saw the meat inside the Great Pyramid were more damaged than the meat inside my office.
		It depends really in the person.
		If you have a stone in your hand, it comes from the Great Pyramid.
unidentified		Maybe it touched your heart.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		But maybe it did not touch my heart because I'm inside the pyramid every day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I did, of course, get to lie in the sarcophagus.
		And there is something very, very strange about lying there, Doctor.
		There's no question about that.
		There is a strange resonance in that room.
		And I know they have done a lot of sound experiments and found that roughly F sharp is the frequency in that room.
		What do you know about that?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		You know, I really, I cannot say anything about that.
		But I, you know, people who enter inside the pyramid, there's always, you know, the structure is very impressive.
		The building style, the structure, the technique.
		And therefore, when you enter inside this room and you are completely isolated from the world, you can see many things.
		It can happen.
		And it happened to many people who tells me.
		I myself, when I enter inside, I feel I'm entering inside the most sacred place in the world.
		And this is why I have to respect this place.
		And I have to work scientifically and honestly.
		The most important thing is honesty.
		And that's what I'm doing at GISA for the last 10 years.
		It's to try to excavate around the sand and reveal the secrets and tell the people about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is a big bureaucracy beyond you in the council and politically up above you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you felt any pressure, political pressure?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		No way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No way.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I told you.
		I told you that everything really go through science.
		Therefore, I will tell you something.
		Take this data that you told me and give it to any respected remote sensing place in the United States and tell them to give us a reading, to send it to the committee to convince us that we are wrong.
		Then we need really a second or a third opinion between our committee and the data that you are telling me now.
		Then I am suggesting now to you, and you tell everyone, that they should take this data to a remote sensing scientific institution in the United States to give us a reading and to tell us exactly.
		Maybe you are wrong.
		Maybe they are wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let me tell you what the bad rap on you is, and you can respond to that.
		You talk a lot about wanting universities and academic experts over there before you're going to allow anybody to drill or excavate.
		And I understand that.
		But it is said that over the years, you have allowed various institutions to Giza, do the work, radar, ground-penetrating radar, and all the rest of it.
		And when they find something, that is the point where you kick them out of Giza and then proceed to excavate yourself.
		That's what people say.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		That's really not true.
		I did not do that at all.
		What has happened that when we allowed John West to do that, then the reason that John West expedition was suspended is because the expedition was not affiliated with the institution.
		But when Florida State University told us that there are three places that they should find out, which is the sinks area and the subsidiary pyramid of Queens, near the pyramid of Khufu those are the two places that they told us there is something there you cannot really why
		But first of all, you cannot excavate in front of the Sphinx because this area has been excavated before.
		The area of the Queen's Pyramid that the radar showed a tunnel existed there, we found it's a solitrop.
		You cannot excavate in the solitrop.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, do you know how the pyramids were built?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		We do.
		I mean, this is what we will tell the people, of course, when you are there.
		We do for the first time discovered around the pyramid evidence to show how the pyramid was built.
		You know, you remember, Art, when we left our office and you saw the people restoring the tombs, and you saw how they cut the stones and how they moved the stones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it was amazing.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		And that's exactly what the ancient Egyptians did.
		But we discovered, in my excavations, on the south of the Great Pyramid, I found evidence of the ramp that the Egyptians used to transport the stones.
		And that is a very important discovery.
		And it existed just on the southwest corner, southwest of the Great Pyramid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, nobody understands how these stones could have been listed at the higher points of the pyramid.
		Nobody.
		Do you?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
		All the stones were taken from the plateau.
		And I am telling you that until now, there was a French movie that they did last summer in the pyramid.
		And we showed them, my workmen, showed how they were cutting the stones, transporting the stones on sledges.
		And this was about 240 feet, the quarry, located 240 feet away from the base of the pyramid.
		And we found other evidence that I will show you on the slides in the debate on the cruise about we discovered things about how they made the base, how they cut the base.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You also, Doctor, found the tombs of the people who built the pyramids, didn't you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you able to talk about that?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		This really is a very important discovery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
		I agree with you.
		Doctor, hold on.
		You've got a good break here.
		We'll get back to you in a moment.
		Dr. Zahi Awass, the Director of Antiquities at Giza in Egypt, is my guest.
		A rare opportunity.
		We'll tell you about the cruise and how you can be part of that if you want.
		Gosh, I hope we don't throw anybody in the water.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		DP.
		DP.
		To talk with Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh.
		From east of the Rockies, dial 1-800-825-5033.
		West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico.
		1-800-618-8255.
		First-time callers may reach Art at area code 702-727-1222.
		And you may call Art on the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
		To reach Art from outside the U.S., first dial your access number to the USA, then 800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM from the Kingdom of Nye with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Once again, here I am, not in great shape.
		I'm not going to kid you.
		I'm sort of a ball of snot.
		The flu has come back on me big time, running about 102, and sweat is just pouring off me.
		But I am bound and determined to complete this interview.
		I have with me Dr. Zahi Awass, who is the Director of Antiquities at Giza in Egypt.
		He is a very powerful kind of wild man.
		We are going to be going on a cruise, which is really going to be a debate, in May.
		It's going to be, let me see, May 10th through the 17th.
		Now, this cruise is going to go to some of the most beautiful places you've ever seen in your whole life in Alaska.
		You will see things that will remain with you for the rest of your life.
		And I'm not kidding about that.
		You will see ice fields.
		You will see things that simply will remain with you for the rest of your life.
		However, on this cruise will be Dr. Zahi Awass, the man I've got on the line now, Danion Brinkley, Graham Hancock, Robert Baval, Dr. Ed Krupp, and I will moderate all this, trying to see that somebody does not get tossed into the sea, as Dr. Hawass suggested.
		And so if you would like to come along on this cruise, you are still welcome to do it.
		I want to remind you that only those of you who book through Visions Travel are going to have the opportunity to attend the very important functions, the very important debates that are going to occur in the course of this cruise.
		Now, I'll give you the numbers, and you can call between 9 in the morning and 6 in the evening, Pacific time.
		The number is 1-800-888-5509.
		You can call tomorrow beginning at 9 o'clock, 1-800-888-5509.
		If you're in California, you must call area code 310-568-0138.
		That's 310-568-0138.
		It should be truly the experience of a lifetime.
		In a moment, we'll get back to Dr. Hawass.
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		All right.
		In a moment, I'm going to give you an opportunity to ask Dr. Hawass a question.
		So if you would like to call now, it would be good timing.
		Back now to Dr. Zahwass.
unidentified		Doctor?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, has there ever been anything discovered at Giza that does not fit with the 4,000 or 5,000 years of Egypt history as you and your colleagues know it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, anything that would prove or show that anything there is older than 4 or 5,000 years.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		You know, Art, really, until this moment, for the last 10 years, since I came from University of Pennsylvania in 1987, almost excavating everywhere, and I'm starting again my excavation in February 1st.
		I did not find until this moment, no one single piece of evidence to prove the existence of any pre-civilization than what we know.
		Until this moment of today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what at this moment?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		What I am saying is that maybe in the future anything can be discovered.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		But until this moment, all the excavations that they did at Giza does not show any evidence of anything that proves anything about Atlantis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not one, I remember when I was there, you said not one grain of sand, not one, anything has ever been shown that would prove anything about Atlantis, period.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, huh?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Doctor, I've got a very hard question for you now.
		I have private information that in the last week, I repeat, the last week while you have been gone, there has been an excavation from the area of the three great pyramids under the water table toward the Sphinx.
		Do you know anything about that?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Yes, there is no one can really excavate when I'm away.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I mean, this excavations is a kind of a planned type work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Then what we did in the last month, we did clean shafts in the plateau.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Clean them.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		And one of the shafts exists underneath the causeway of Kifrin.
		And we, what is there is rough sarcophagus.
		And we cleaned the 100 feet down and nothing really has been found there.
		Nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you knew this was going on?
unidentified		Yes.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		That's not any hidden excavations or anything like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I was surprised.
		I thought that might surprise you.
unidentified		No.
unidentified		No, huh?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		First of all, I mean, why will they do such a thing like that when I'm away for a week?
		That's really not true.
		But we cleaned this shaft.
		There is a water down there about four meters down.
		And there is a lid of a sarcophagus.
		And we took it out.
		And there is nothing underneath that sarcophagus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nothing.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Nothing.
		And we will try in the future to take this water out and drain the water.
		And we hope to see if anything there, of course, we will announce it and tell the people about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I would like to turn you over.
		I do have one other question, and then I would like to turn you over to some callers.
		There are many people, Doctor, who believe that the NASA program here in America, the space program, and nearly everything they do, the launches, the timing of the launches, this is from Richard C. Hoagland, is driven by things that have been found at Giza, and that there have been officials from NASA at Giza.
		Can you tell us anything about that?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Really, Art, that is not true.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I never met any official from NASA at Giza.
unidentified		Never?
unidentified		Never.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I only meet archaeologists.
		And I think they're accusing also my friend in Boston, Farouk Bez, who's a geologist who's working at remote sensing at Boston University.
		And Farouk Bez is a respected scholar in his field.
		And he did not work at GISA.
		And that thing that I hear All the time, it is not really true.
		I hope that they will give me evidence about anything like that, and I will tell you right away.
		All right, I never met anyone from NASA, and we don't have any cooperation with NASA through archaeology, nothing, no connection, no connection at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, um, first time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Zahi Awas.
unidentified		Hello, hello there.
unidentified		Oh, hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're on the air.
unidentified		I didn't realize I was on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, turn your radio off.
unidentified		Okay.
		Turn it off.
		Okay.
		Thank you.
		First of all, I would like to say hello to Dr. Hawass and to thank him very much.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Mary.
unidentified		Hi, Dr. Hawas.
		How are you?
		I'm very much fine.
		And I'm, are you in the United States?
		I'm so glad to find out that you're here and everything is fine.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I was attending a conference at Laurilla University here in California, and I'm going to lecture at the Smithsonian next week.
unidentified		Oh, well, this sounds amazing.
unidentified		I wanted to ask you, first of all, one question that doesn't really have to do with Sphinx Gate, but something else that came up while I was in Egypt.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		First of all, are you coming to the debate or not?
unidentified		I would love to come to the debate if it's possible, and I am available in this country.
		I will.
		But as you know, I go back and forth to Egypt so much that I may not be able to make the debate.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		And Mary, you were in Luxor.
unidentified		I was in Luxor immediately after the incident.
		And I did want to say, just to corroborate what Dr. Huash said earlier, that it is very safe there.
		The people have opened their hearts.
		It is just a lot of healing and a lot of very good energy right now there.
		Even though there's not many tourists, as a person who has lived in Egypt and worked there, it's probably one of the best times for being there that I have had in all of the seven years that I've been traveling to Egypt.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Mary, are you crying?
unidentified		I was just so emotional thinking about what was going on.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		You know, I was telling art, really.
		We hope that everyone will come back to Egypt again.
		And we hope to see them, to see the Americans coming back and go to Luxor and see that this really is something there.
		It is not something that can be repeated again.
unidentified		No, it can't be.
		And it's true, there is security everywhere.
		It's very safe.
		I spent three weeks there, right up until Christmas.
		And I walked alone through the Valley of the Kings.
		I stayed on the West Bank.
		mean it was totally safe and if anyone I've It was empty, but people have started to come back again.
		And in fact, there was a beautiful Christmas celebration over on the West Bank for Christmas, and people are starting to come back.
		As Dr. Hua said earlier, the difference between 4,000 and 700 in the Great Pyramid is very obvious.
		So the difference between hotels being packed full for the opera and having maybe 20% capacity for Christmas, it's glaringly obvious that tourism is down.
		But as far as being safe there, I usually travel alone or with small groups, and I had no problem there right after.
		And if anyone, they can call me at my home, and I can tell them that I'm perfectly okay with being there and recommending it to people as well.
		The thing I did want to ask you, Dr. Zahi, was that when I was in Egypt, I read an article in Egypt Today, the December issue, and they talked about there's an American Egyptian production company that wants to put on musical concerts at the Sphinx in 98 and 99, and in particular, rock music concerts.
		Is there any, and in the article, you did say that that would probably not happen.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		You know, Mary, I feel, it's like what's happening between me and this fight.
		It's like it's going another fight to happen.
		You know, I feel the pyramid should have dignity and respect.
		We cannot have the sting on the pyramid.
		And we have 20,000 young people coming and dancing in front of the great pyramid.
		This will kill me.
		The pyramid has to have dignity and power and magic.
		And therefore, I believe that we should have respected the type of for year 2000, for the millennium, we should have someone like a famous Oprano.
		We should have, you know, a singer like, you know, maybe Whitney Davis, Whitney Houston.
		You know, something with romantic, with love to be shown in front of the pyramid with respected people coming all over the world.
		And we are really planning even to put a capstone made of gold up the great pyramid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you don't want, Doctor, you don't want anything without class there, is what you're saying.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And that is my objection, Mary, about this guy who wants to bring singers, famous singers that sing and, you know, maybe Michael Jackson and things like that.
		Can you please the pyramid?
		We'll have things like this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		Do you see any connection between Giza and the millennium?
		The millennium is coming fast now.
		So you want some events at Giza?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly what we are planning to do.
		We are planning to do what the ancient Egyptians did.
		When the Egyptians built the pyramid, they put above the pyramid the capstone and they cased it with gold.
		When they put the capstone, means the pyramid is finished.
		Everyone has to dance and sing because the national project of the whole nation is finished.
		And that's exactly what we are going to do for the millennium.
		It's to have two top events happening satellite from Giza to the people all over the world to tell the people that the Egyptians are very peaceful people, we are a people of peace, and also we would like them to come back.
		We would like them to see the pyramid and to enjoy the discoveries that we make around the pyramid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		How long will the Great Pyramid be lost?
		Closed?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		About six months.
		About remember, Art, I'm telling you, we do not Want to have any rumors, anyone who would like to enter the pyramid will give him the permission.
		We are closing the pyramid because I have a system to open two pyramids only and close one.
		It's a rotation, it's for the safe of the pyramid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, is there damage being done by so many people going in there every day?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just the breath of the people humidity is 95%.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Cracks inside the great pyramid.
		Over 300 areas suffering from cracks.
		We need to restore them.
		We cannot restore them during the...
		Maybe because there is a number of people are less, then it's a time to close it.
		But I'm telling you, for the new AG group, they are welcome.
		All of them will enter and set the pyramid.
		And I hope that we can make this debate again in Egypt next year and bring everyone to see all of this in action.
		To see really what we're doing.
		You know, I want to stop this rumor.
		I want the people not to see me as the bad guy, but to see that I'm the guy who is protecting.
		This pyramid is not my pyramid.
		It is the pyramid of you and everyone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The pyramids, the Sphinx, Doctor, there are two ways of looking at it.
		They are, of course, Egyptian national property.
		But other people say they belong to the world as well.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I believe they belong to the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do?
unidentified		Of course.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		We are just guardians to this monument.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		But everyone has a piece of it.
unidentified		It's a part of the whole world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Wildcard line, you're on air with Dr. Zahiwas.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, gentlemen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am.
		Oh, I'm in San Diego.
		This is Jason from San Diego.
		Yes.
		Always a pleasure, Art.
		And Dr. Hawass, I must say in a very serious note, this is an honor to speak with you.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
unidentified		You know, modern technology, this is great.
		I follow this very carefully, and I'm going to read a quick little thing.
		I've got two quick points to make.
		Here's the first one.
		If NASA really does have a secret interest in the monuments of Mars, it would be expected that such an interest would also have manifested here on Earth, in particular the Sphinx and Giza in Egypt.
		Now, before I even say anything further, I respect your opinion either way, regardless as to whether you agree with me, because we are both on different terms, and anything you say is still very respectable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's just ask him, Doctor, do you think there is any connection between the monuments of Mars and what is at Giza?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		No, at all.
		You know, I believe in science.
		I believe in evidence.
		Just give me one single evidence, and I would believe in it.
unidentified		Bam, right there.
		And the two things I'm going to end with are, well, in early March, Mars Global Surveyor, Mark Collato, has already pointed out they'll have a perfect imaging opportunity.
		Greg Molinar, I'm not sure, but I know Vincent DiPetro has said, here, NASA, we've said an eyeball and teeth are here.
		Show it, prove it.
		You have proof of scientifically saying we have found components to say, ah, it's artificial.
		And on that, you guys were just talking about your little, the narrow shaft in the pyramid and trying to find a spar aerospace, which builds hydraulic arms and is used by NASA space shuttles.
		I'm not sure if anything ever did take flight with the gentleman leading that, but I would love to hear Dr. Hawass comment more on that.
		I didn't quite catch if anything had ever been done on that 8-inch by 8-inch 200 shaft.
		And if he has anything else to say about Sidonian, just his general feelings.
		And I'll leave it with that.
		Thank you, gentlemen, very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, again, you think there is no connection with Sidonia?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		No, because there is no evidence that they see.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		You know, I would like anyone to show me what has been found in Mars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was no magic about how the pyramids were built.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know how they were built, right?
unidentified		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Doctor, hold on.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I would like to say about this shot, that we are going, I hope before May, we are going to do it.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, there is new techniques that have been found now that in five minutes you can find, you can take a photograph of what's paramedic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, I know.
		Doctor, hold on.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		We'll be right back.
		Dr. Zahi-Was is my guest.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Coast to Coast AM
		All that's in it's old To find your love and love to stay Running every time You don't seem to stay this time Oh
		Watch it in the motion as you turn around today Take my breath away To talk with Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from east of the Rockies, dial 1, 800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033.
		West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico.
		1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		Now again, here's Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here I am.
		My guest is the Honorable Dr. Zahi Hawass.
		We're going on a cruise, as you all know or should know, in May, May 10th through the 17th, to Alaska, to one of the most beautiful places in the world.
		During the course of this cruise, there's going to be a debate with Dr. Hawass, Daniel Brinkley, Graham Hancock, Robert Buval, Dr. Ed Krupp, and myself trying to moderate all this.
		If you'd like to come along with us, the only way to do this is to call one of the numbers I'm going to give you.
		Visions Travel is Putting this together, and if you book with anybody else other than Visions, you will not get to attend these very, very controversial functions.
		Boy, is it going to be something?
		So, the national number is 1-800-888-5509.
		That's 1-800-888-5509.
		In California, you'll have to call area code 310-568-0138.
		That's area code 310-568-0138.
		Back to Dr. Hawassa in a moment.
		I've been once again, Dr. Zahi Hawas.
unidentified		Doctor?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you how deep the Stanford people drilled in 1978.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		They went down something like six to seven meters down on the solid rock.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Virginia Beach this last summer, you were asked how deep they drilled, and you replied publicly, they went down about four meters.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		No, but I think I'm not sure exactly, but it's something like that.
		You know, if I said four from five, I can tell you the exact date when I see you in May, the exact drilling, exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Debecki wants to go down 12 meters.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		12 meters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, 12 meters.
		So we should ask you whether or not his excavations in front of the Valley Temple in any way proved the potential value of the radar they used.
		And again, why can we not dig in the already dug well?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Sure, you know, I told you the reason.
		I believe when the committee discussed it, I told you it was in a time also that we were not really going to do anything away from what we are doing, restoring the things.
		Then maybe since the restoration is finished, maybe the opportunity can be there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why was Dr. Shore's permit canceled?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		No, his permit is not canceled at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is not cancelled.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		No, he is his request of drilling, not Dr. Shore.
		We have to distinguish between Florida State University and an individual.
		Jean Shore just funded Florida State University expedition.
		They were working with Florida State University, not with Dr. Shore.
		Therefore, Florida State University, only the request of the drilling is rejected.
		But therefore, they can still continue the underground map for the radar to the whole plateau.
		And also at the same time, they could drill around the Queen's Pyramid.
		I think there is the committee, I don't think that there is no reason for the committee to stop the drilling on this area there, at least to prove if the radar is right or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		This is a very hard question, and I'm not sure whether I should ask it or not, but I will.
		There have been persistent rumors, Doctor.
		I am told, in fact, a recent article in a Cairo newspaper suggesting that Princess Diana was deliberately killed by British government agents because of her impending marriage to a prominent Egyptian family that is held in great disfavor by the British crown.
		There have even been suggestions she was killed because she was pregnant.
		In view of your recent meetings with the late princess, what is your opinion about this tragic incident?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		You know, I don't think really that she's killed at all or she was intended to be killed by anyone.
		I think this is just an accident happened.
		And it's a tragedy, of course, because the lady was so wonderful.
		And the Egyptian gentleman also was a very nice guy.
		I think they were in love.
		Then because of the attack from the reporters to them, the accident happened.
		But I don't think that there is any killing involved in that at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Doctor.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Dr. Zahi Awass.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Oh, Honolulu, Hawaii, KHVH.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Dr. Awass, are you aware that I have three general points?
		Are you aware that George Bush and Barbara Bush will be at the Pyramids of Egypt December 31st, 1999?
		And then this was reported in 1989 in the Arizona Daily Star.
		Do you know if she's going to be there?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I met the whole family two months ago.
		The whole family of Mr. Bosch, they came, Barbara Bosch and her daughters and the wives and the sons, all of them.
		And I have really a beautiful photograph with them.
		But I don't know about the 1999, but it could happen.
		I don't know what happened.
unidentified		I made arrangements about 10 years ago to be there.
unidentified		And then so it's going to be a very big event.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
unidentified		And then are you aware that there was an A ⁇ E program that, like, oh, there's a professor that says that there was pre-Columbian oceanic voyages by the Egyptians, and they were able to get herbs from Latin America.
		And then there was a German toxologist and also a Manchester Museum Egyptologist that confirmed that there was, they looked into the hair of these mummies in Venice and different parts of Europe, and then they found that there was cocaine, ashish, and tobacco in them.
		Are you aware of that?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		No, we did a conference five years ago in Denver, Colorado, with other scholars from South America and Mexico to prove any connection, but we did not really find any connection between the Egyptian and those people.
		But this idea that you are telling me, I never heard of it.
		This is the first time that I heard about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have never recovered from any of the pyramids, have you, any bodies?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Oh, from the pyramids.
		There's only from the third pyramid.
		There is remains of the mummy of Minkawara has been found in the last century, and it was departed with the coffin to England, and it was drowned by the seashore of Spain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, I was at the tomb or the tombs of the people who built the pyramid.
		I thought it was a most amazing place to be.
		I wasn't supposed to take photographs there, but I did take one.
		I got one.
		And the hieroglyphics there are the most clear and new and unusual.
		What have you discovered at the tombs of the workers?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		You know, we discovered many interesting things.
		You know, the most interesting is really the bones, the skeletons, that we make a study on that bone.
		And the evidence that we found, that first of all, they were Egyptians, all these people, and we are doing some work now with Florida, with Hawaii State University, to also do some about the genetic and to prove more about who were the builders of the pyramids.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Genetic studies.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		It's going to be done by Hawaii State University in Honolulu.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		And we sent pieces from these bones last week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When do you think all of this information will generally be released to the world?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I mean, part of it should be, I should have some of it in the cruise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I will tell all the data that we have and all the information.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I will tell the people about all of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, if we wanted to, could we build another great pyramid today?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		No.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		You know why?
unidentified		No, I don't.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Because the Egyptian, this...
		That the pyramids built Egypt.
		And the pyramid was the national project of the whole nation.
		And the pyramids were built because of religious purpose.
		You do not have this now, Art.
		You do not have.
		You know, you can build a church because you are Christian.
		But you cannot build the pyramid because you do not believe in the pyramid.
		And that is the point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are people, Doctor, who think that the pyramid is a gate, a stargate of some kind.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		And you know, this is good for movies, art.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		But it's not really, when you come back to reality, that's not true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Zahiwas.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
unidentified		My name is Mark, Kansas City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kansas City, all right?
unidentified		Yes.
		And a question for the good doctor.
		Good morning.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		I'd like to know if the pyramids, over the period of time since they've been built, if you've noticed any settling in them at all, corresponding with ground level.
unidentified		That's all I had at this time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Have they settled?
		In other words, have they much, as when you get a new house and it rains, why, the house will settle.
		Have the pyramids done all the settling they're going to do, or is it still going on?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean by settling?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in other words, moving or shifting a little bit.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
		You know, the plateau is 100 feet above the level of the water.
		And that's the reason when the Egyptians pick up a site, they pick up a site full of limestone to build a pyramid.
		And therefore, they level the site completely before building the pyramid.
		When they make the base of the pyramid, they cut on the solid rock.
		And the base become a part of the solid rock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Dogger, when you stand, many people don't know this because when they see photographs of the pyramids, they only see the pyramids.
		But if you turn around in the other direction, you see nothing but Cairo, every place.
		And usually hanging over Cairo, like many major cities, there is an awful lot of dirty, polluted air.
		This air, many times, must reach Giza.
		Is it doing damage?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		It does.
		And this is why next year we are finishing the whole project of the conservation of the whole plateau.
		We'll stop cars going up the plateau.
unidentified		We are moving the camel and horse drivers to the desert.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		They will not wander anymore around the pyramids.
		And that really is a part of saving the pyramids from the surrounding.
		And we hope, really, to finish it by next year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is anybody going to take control of those people who give camel rides?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because they get you up on a camel and you're way high up in the air and then they don't let you down until you pay them.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		This is exactly what's going to happen in two months from now.
		You are moving all of them in a controlled area that every tourist will ride a camel on a horse.
		The police, the tourist police will know the number and it will be following one route and therefore nothing like this is going to happen again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Zahia Wass.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi, this is Hank.
		I'm calling you from Somerdo, California.
		I'm listening to you on San Diego radio.
		I had one question and an apology, but the question was, I saw a documentary where a little German robot went up a shaft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And it went up to a little doorway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And there was never an answer as to what's behind the doorway or what the shaft was.
unidentified		Is there any information that is known now that's further about what's up in that shaft or the purpose of that shaft?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		You know, that shaft is, they call it wrongly the air shaft.
		And it was cut through the so-called queen chamber that was left unfinished.
		And therefore, in my opinion, this shaft was left unfinished.
		I believe that the function of this shaft, the one on the south or from the king chamber, was used for the soul of Khufu as the sun god Ray to go through and take the two boats on the south to travel in the night and the day trip.
		Because the duty of the God is to clean the world and to clean it from devils.
		And the people in return has to worship the God.
		The function of the other one in the north is to join the stars.
		And therefore, that door or that stone that has been found, we will know, we will know about what's behind it, we hope, before May of this year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Dr. Zahi Loss.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, hello, Ars.
unidentified		This is Mike in Philadelphia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mike, you're going to have to speak up good and loud for us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not too loud here.
unidentified		How's that right there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Much better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go right ahead.
unidentified		Yes, hello.
unidentified		I am very honored to speak to you, Doctor.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I am from Philadelphia also.
unidentified		Oh, you are?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I lived seven years there.
unidentified		Oh, that's very well.
unidentified		I would like to ask you, do you believe the, I have one question, do you believe the people that built the pyramids are from Earth and that there's any scientific proof to prove either way?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		You know, we talked about this the whole program.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		There is no evidence until this moment that has been found to prove the connections of the pyramids with anything except the pharaohs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		except the pharaohs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the pharaohs were not really using the pyramids as a burial place, and that is what most people...
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		And Saqqara is a site located on the south of Giza, and it has the steppe pyramid, the first storage structure ever built in the world.
		Then I was excavating last year, a few months ago, near the pyramid of Saqqara, and I found a small pyramid of a queen.
		And inside, there is a sarcophagus, and inside the sarcophagus, remains of her mummy.
		Then the pyramids were blundered.
		Like any tombs in Egypt, King Tatumb was found intact because it was hidden under the stone.
		But there is evidence, written evidence, proving that pyramids were tombs, but also representing the power and dignity of the Pharisees.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying they were tombs?
unidentified		Of course.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Zah.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi.
		This is Joe from Klamath Falls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Joe.
unidentified		I was wondering, does anything in I read the book, The Twelfth Planet, that you had before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How does the guest feel about that book?
unidentified		And he, so even scientific research, wasn't that all archaeology that the guy did out of the different museums around the world?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Sitchin's work, are you familiar with that, Dr. Harris?
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		I am not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		What's the name of the book again?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The 12th Planet.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		No, I never heard of it.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Zahwas.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		This is Jack from Minneapolis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Jack.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I'd like to ask you, Doctor, about a possible chamber below the Sphinx foot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		The front foot.
unidentified		A little while back, I heard in the news that they were going to look for something under there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've been talking about that.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		We've been talking about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, of course, the big controversy, and it's going to be, I guess, the big point of discussion on this cruise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I am going to try and moderate, so I did not try and get too confrontational with you this morning, Doctor, but I am looking forward to moderating a very controversial time indeed, and I hope that nobody gets thrown into the sea.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		No, I believe it's going to be very interesting.
		But the most important thing is that the truth, at least the people who will attend the conference, will hear my sight, and they will see most of, or all, I can't really talk about all the discoveries that I made at Giza, but I mean the interesting stuff that I found that can help them in understanding more about the Giza Plateau.
		And we hope, as I said from the beginning, that next year we hope that to make this debate in Egypt and people that can come by and see the pyramids and the Sphinx and the excavations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would love to come back to Egypt, of course.
		So maybe we will do exactly that.
		In the meantime, I'm looking forward to what is going to occur in May with some trepidation, but I'm definitely looking forward to it.
		So, Doctor, it has been a pleasure having you on tonight, and I wish you a safe.
dr zahi hawass ▲ ● ▼		Good night for everyone, or good morning for everyone.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, Doctor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See you in May, my friend.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		All right.
		That is Dr. Zahi Hawas, the Director of Antiquities at Giza.
		Now, if you would like to come to this incredible debate, which will have not only Dr. Hawass, but in a way, ganging up on him, Danion Brinkley, Graham Hancock, Robert Bowell, Dr. Ed Krupp, and then myself trying to moderate all of this.
		They may get sick of that and toss me into the sea.
		You never know.
		We'd love to have you come along.
		Again, the number to call between 9 in the morning and 6 in the evening is 1-800-888-5509.
		1-800-888-5509.
		If you're in California, you must call Area Code 310-568-0138.
		I repeat, Area Code 310-568-0138.
		All right, folks.
		I am sick as a dog.
		I have a dog named Giza, by the way.
		So I'm going to retreat to my sickbed.
		But I did want to get in here and do this interview, and so it has been done.
		Thank you all very much, and pray for me.
		I have the flu.
		Night all.
unidentified		I have been all that hell upon myself.

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