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Jan. 5, 1998 - Art Bell

03:20:03

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - BIG UFO Disclosure Show

Participants

Main voices

40:59

dr steven greer

42:14

richard c hoagland

11:55

steven bassett

01:02:59

Appearances

robert o dean

03:31

Clips

alex jones

00:25

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning wherever you may be.
		All these time zones actually stretching from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Island chains out west all the way east to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to the Pole, and worldwide on the internet.
		This is Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Mark Bell.
		Great to be with you.
		It is now, of course, a new year, and it is going to be an interesting beginning to a new year.
		This night's program, in a word, might be called disclosure.
		Disclosure.
		Joining us during the course of the evening and with us throughout the course of the evening will be Stephen Bassett, who is a Washington UFO lobbyist.
		A lobbyist representing a number of organizations, some of which you will hear from this night.
		I'm going to let him unwind the story.
		First, up at bat, Richard Hoagland, Director of the Enterprise Mission.
		Joining us throughout the night, then following will be in orders, Dr. Stephen Greer, the Director of Seas Heading.
		Dr. Edgar Mitchell, the Apollo 14 astronauts.
		Paul Gerston, the attorney representing some people who are victims with regard to an Area 51 issue.
		You'll hear about that.
		Robert O'Dean, the director of Stargate International, and Jim Mars, author of Alien Agenda.
		Otherwise, I'm going to allow Richard Bassett to kind of unwind and kick this thing off in a moment.
		So as you can see, it's going to be a very busy night.
		Keep one word in mind, disclosure.
		All right, first comes Stephen Bassett, who will be with us throughout the evening as other guests come and go and join us for very specific reasons.
		In 1995, Stephen Bassett decided to bring a 15-year background in business development, consulting, and a degree in physics into the field of extraterrestrial phenomena research.
		His point of entry, a five-month stint, working for the director of PEER, the program for extraordinary experience research founded by Dr. John Mack, who most of you should know, in Cambridge.
		In 1996, he left Cambridge to set up a consulting practice, Paradigm Research Group, in Bethesda, Maryland, just outside of Washington, D.C. This consulting has consisted of providing professional support to researchers such as lobbying, media liaison, funding proposals, and secondary research.
		In April of 96, he attended the press conference held in Washington, D.C. by Richard Hoagland, also here this hour, on the Mars Moon Photographic Evidence.
		In April of this year, he attended the press and congressional briefings conducted in Washington, D.C. by Dr. Stephen Greer and C. Seti.
		He recently returned from Roswell, where he assisted Robert and Cecilia Dean in launching Stargate International's 1997 petition for an open congressional hearing on modern UFO evidence.
		Basically, Stephen Bassett can be described as the only UFO lobbyist in Washington, D.C. He will introduce Richard Hoagland, of course, a one-time advisor to NASA, advisor to Walter Cronkite, winner of the Angstrom Science Award, which will begin this evening's information fest.
		Here from Washington, D.C. is Stephen Bassett.
		Stephen?
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
		Welcome to the program.
		And if you could kind of outline for people as much as you're willing to tell about where we're about to go, I'd be appreciative.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, a couple of things.
		It's always a pleasure to be on the show with Richard.
		And I'm going to do my best to match his superior eloquence this evening, though it is not going to be easy.
		First of all, I want to thank the listeners of your program.
		Maybe this isn't done enough.
		The people that I'm working with and other groups that I'm associated with and myself included have gotten a tremendous amount of support from the people that listen to your show.
		In terms of email and faxes and pats on the back, in terms of following up on initiatives that have been brought to their attention in countless ways, they are really exerting their power as I consider a political and social force.
		And as you continue to add more and more stations, this is going to continue.
		It is not trivial.
		I consider it very, very important, and I want to know that it is very much appreciated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Stephen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Glad to have you be part of it.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Now, having said that, to all the people from the West Coast and certainly the East Coast who may not make it through the entire evening here, this is the night you may want to consider calling up some of your friends who normally watch this show, but for whatever reason, maybe not quite up to speed, and give them a call and say, look, you want to tune in this evening.
		You don't want to miss this.
		I think this show is an important event in a sense.
		It has a certain amount of historical importance.
		And there's a tremendous amount of information that's going to come out this evening.
		Furthermore, those of you out there who do not have computers, and I know there are actually a couple that don't, get a pen, get a pencil, some paper.
		Keep it handy.
		There's going to be addresses.
		There's going to be link information.
		There's going to be a number of things that you're going to want to write down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For those with computers, head to my website right now because we have all the relevant links already there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be www.artbell.com.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		As always.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Let's begin very quickly by first saying that the fundamental reason for this show is that Stephen Greer wants to do something very important.
		There are a number of things that have led up to it, And he is chosen, again, because of, I think, the nature of the audience and because of the support this audience has provided, chosen to do it on this show.
		Essentially, it has not occurred in any other media to date.
		And that will take place in the second and third hour.
		And so, again, there's a whole hour for people who know of individuals that maybe want to listen to this to get them online so they can pick up with that second hour.
		But we'll do our best to fill you in on what's going on and give you some sense of it.
		Essentially, we have arrived at the beginning of 1998 in a very, very propitious position.
		After many, many years, things are going our way.
		And we've talked in the past about the political initiatives.
		They continue to strengthen.
		They continue to coalesce.
		And in general, there is an unfolding, how would you say, plan, right?
		Some of it is fortuitous, some of it is very much put together through hard work, but a plan is kind of coming together that makes it very likely that 1998 is going to be the year that this business moves to where it needs to be.
		Not totally understood, but where it needs to be with full citizen involvement in the process of disclosure and citizen understanding of probably a very significant first-level truth, namely fundamental validity of what we call the extraterrestrial hypothesis.
		It's going to happen through the standard channels.
		It's going to happen through due process.
		It's going to use all of the tools that this country has built over 200 years and use them in the way they're supposed to be used.
		It's going to be done without violence.
		It's going to be done without too much acrimony in my opinion.
		And it's going to have a very powerful effect on how we view ourselves and our country.
		Now, that's a lot to say, but we're going to back it up this evening.
		Essentially, there are three initiatives that I want to mention now.
		We're going to get some background on that.
		Richard's going to discuss some of that.
		But let's get those out on the forefront right now.
		Okay.
		Three initiatives.
		One, the congressional petition, which everyone probably knows about by now, is continuing to spread to other links.
		It is now the 1998 petition for an open congressional hearing.
		No apologies there.
		And it will gather signatures, and I expect that the national attention that is heading our way in the next month is going to ensure that that petition will become a national and computer-spread instrument, and we will get those million signatures.
		And this initiative number one, how do you get to that petition?
		As always, you can get to the Bell site, and you can then link to Stargate International site where that petition resides, and it's currently also residing at a website called Margana Anagram, a website for anagram video.
		It is also, though the link is not there, on the MSN UFO Forum site, and it's going to be on many, many other sites very, very soon.
		Initiative 1.
		Initiative 2, the congressional hearing process, which I refer to as a group of discussions that are going on at a number of levels involving more than one group, though certainly CSETI and its associates and members are a very powerful part of that.
		They continue to go on.
		They continue to go forward.
		And interaction with the media continues to take place.
		The message is slowly working its way through a fairly resistant, but nevertheless, increasingly open group of mainstream professionals.
		That process moves toward what you would call engagement, meaning actually the calling for a hearing.
		That process of discussion is part of, it's not the whole thing.
		Obviously, the petition is trying to support that, but the obvious discussions are the key.
		That's the second initiative, and that is still ongoing.
		Very significant link on that is CSETI in this case.
		You go to Art Bell, you go to CSETI.
		Why?
		Because when you go to CSETI, you will find there listed in a triage fashion all of the key top committees and their chairpersons and the addresses where you can contact.
		Congress comes back in session later this month.
		Like your listeners to consider piling up emails.
		Well, emails obviously can be gotten from other websites.
		On the CSETI site, you'll find faxes.
		You'll find addresses, pile up faxes, pile up letters and emails on the desk of these committee chair people.
		So when they come back, it will get their attention.
		The third initiative is something that certainly Richard is going to be talking about later, but it is, it came together very quickly, and in its simplest form, it is a full-page ad, which amounts to a statement of purpose for the Paradigm Research Group.
		And the Paradigm Research Group is essentially a loose confederation of people that I am working for, people that I am serving.
		It is not formal.
		It's not some incorporated thing.
		It's something that is hanging in the air, but it has a certain amount of structure.
		And that statement of purpose is going to be a full-page ad that's going into the Washington Post later this month.
		It is very direct, it is very to the point, and it is aimed not so much at the general mass reader, but at the leaders of the country, the leaders of the media, leaders of industry, to take notice.
		We hope that that ad is going to be distributed afterwards to the entire House and Senate.
		It's going to be made into a media piece.
		It's going to be distributed.
	That ad will very shortly be seen for the first time at the Anagram video site, which again you can get through through an Art Bell link.
	They have been working feverishly.
	A team of very dedicated high-tech people out in Seattle, led by Joseph Bergeron, have been putting that together in the last 48 hours, working night and day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I want to give the audience some idea of what it is going to be now.
		It's tentatively titled to the President and Congress of the United States on the matter of the extraterrestrial presence.
unidentified		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There will be many signatories, powerful signatories To it.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		It is a statement designed to do a number of things and to get its message across by being accompanied by 80 front-page signatures, which will be called out of all the signatures we collect.
		This is not a petition now.
		This is not an attempt to get thousands of signatures.
		It is an attempt to get the most distinguished people in our country who will support this statement on that page and into the paper.
		The overflow will go into what will amount to a press release side document that will go out on request.
		As obviously, the caliber of the individuals is going to be very significant in terms of the attention it gathers.
		No apologies there.
		It's very important to resolving this issue that people of stature, station, and personal accomplishments in their life put their name on this issue.
		I think the days are slowly passing where people of good conscience and great resources and intellect still remain behind the scenes because they feel that unsure about how their views will be received in what is ostensibly a very free country.
		We're going to change that.
		This ad is one of the mechanisms.
		There are a number of key things in this ad.
		We will be talking about it throughout the evening.
		But one of the very key things in the ad, and I can't overemphasize this, is that the signatures to this ad will be calling for a full amnesty to all members of the government, living and dead, past and present, for any acts extra-legal,
		any decisions which are questionable, any garnishments of resources through transferring of the technology or anything else prior to January 1, 1998, by pardon or by act of Congress.
		And this is very, very significant.
		If our interest is moving forward, then we need to let it be known that this is far too complex and far too important to get balked down in the kinds of retributions and petty picking which we are becoming famous for around the world.
		There have been some grievous things that were done, but so what?
		This issue is bigger than that and bigger than us.
		So that is just one part of this thing, but probably the most important.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And amnesty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, to tell people they won't be persecuted for coming forward.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		And if the disclosure takes place tomorrow, the next thing that's not going to happen is 10,000 lawyers showing up, finding out who they can sue, 10,000 people or 100 congressmen looking for special prosecutors to start meting out retribution.
		Sure, there are some things that happen which make me angry and other people angry, but that was the case in South Africa, and Mandela found a way to bridge that issue through the People and Reconciliation Council.
		And I think we can certainly do it on this issue, which is obviously not of the life and death magnitude of what occurred there.
		But this call for amnesty has been long overdue.
		It's been us against them for a long time.
		We have to remember that the government is nothing but an infrastructure of other people just like us.
		And if we have got to take into consideration that they are equally concerned about this, many of them are probably very scared.
		A lot of them are being pushed around, and a lot of them are completely in the dark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we've got to get to Richard, but I do want to ask you this.
		Are you encouraged or discouraged by the President's signing of an order holding secret much of the information that could have been disclosed with regard to Area 51?
		He seemed to step in and quickly sign something to keep it all hush-hush.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Much can be said about that, but since you brought it up, let me quickly correct something.
		Peter Gerston's focus of interest is, in fact, the filing of Freedom of Information Acts, and he's right now involved in a direct FOIA on all records pertaining to Colonel Corso.
		He's not involved in the Area 51 area.
		As far as your question, I consider it a small matter.
		It's a small matter in the larger scheme of things.
		It's pretty important to the workers that suffered very badly out there.
		But it's kind of a small chip to play, meaning that I see the President, whatever his views, perhaps not wanting to bet the pot on that issue and rather go along rather than cause a fuss.
		It's not the critical issue here.
		The Area 51 is more of a metaphor for many other things.
		It is as a law case very important to the parties involved, and we all hope that someday they will get satisfied.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think with regard to the issue of disclosure, though, it is telling.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's certainly well it's worldview that is entrenched, well, about 15,000 years.
		You want to count the Sumerians.
		They're not going to give it up easily.
		I don't blame them.
		But nevertheless, that's a cue, but not that critical, in my opinion.
		Now, there's other things that might happen that would be more critical.
		Anyway, that's the initiative.
		This is where people can go.
		We're going to be giving you some more information, phone numbers, addresses later on.
		I'd like to have Richard maybe come in and talk about the things that took place over the last few months that moved toward the ad and have been driving some of the rather feverish activity in the last 30 days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, we're just about at the bottom of the hour.
		Let me ask you one question, sort of an overall question, Stephen.
		Without going into the details, do you think that in 1998 we have enough real hard evidence to force disclosure?
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		We have had evidence proving the validity of this claim for probably 10 years.
		It's not a matter of do we have enough evidence.
		Do we have the political will?
		Do we have the power of the internet?
		Do we have the power of a nationwide network of talk radio stations that will feast on this issue when it finally comes forward?
		The tools are all there.
		The evidence has always been there.
		Yes, this is the year that the government and the citizens will come face to face on the issue, and it will be resolved in our favor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We'll be right back.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Coast to Coast AM.
		Stay tuned for more of the Best of Art Bell right after a word from your local sponsors.
		Best of Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now back to Washington, D.C. and Stephen Bassett.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stephen?
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		Go right ahead.
		For those people just joining the show, there's still a bit of time.
		If you know some people would like to join in and listen in with us this evening.
		And the next hour, the second hour of the program, Dr. Stephen Greer of CSETI, a group which has been working directly with members of the government, briefing and cross-briefings, primarily confidential meetings, for nearly six years.
		That has been escalating in the last year and a half.
		It extends to multi-agencies.
		And because of some recent events, Dr. Greer is going to go into great length about the situation regarding the White House and briefings of the high members of the White House staff, as well as the director of the CIA, and cover a lot more territory.
		This is information which has really not been public before.
		It will be public this evening for the first time.
		And it only represents a tip of an iceberg.
		Now, a number of things have happened in the last few months which have sort of been moving things at a faster pace and has led to this show, among other things.
		And I think Richard would like to cover some of that for us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, then, here he is, Richard C. Hoagland from near Albuquerque.
		Richard, thanks for joining us.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, gentlemen.
		It's the first show I've ever been on where I could sit back and listen to the show.
		Hi, Steve.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jake.
		Yeah, this really, this show tonight is the kind of culmination of some conversations that Steve and I had in a conference call with Stephen Greer and Bob Dean and several other people relating to the destruction of the records at the National Archive.
		And I want to take a small moment here to tip my hat to Linda Howe, who alerted us to this, because there was only one very tiny little AP story.
		And if she hadn't brought it to your attention, Art, we wouldn't have known about it and realized the significance.
		So there is a very important network of information which is moving forward.
		In that conference call, which was primarily a call by Stephen to kind of get some consensus on what to do about the archive problem, Dr. Greer kind of let out of the bag that he had had some extremely high-level and interesting and productive conversations with people who were very close to the president and that they were very substantive.
		And the fact that, you know, the interest was there on the part of the White House and on the part of Bill Clinton to find out about the ETUFO question.
		In that conversation, it was very clear that this was on background.
		So remember, we did a show a few nights hence where we were able to allude to these conversations, but were unable on your show, Arc, to give any specifics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, a couple, three days later, Webster Hubble, appointed by the president to be Deputy Attorney General under Janet Reno, published his book, Friends in High Places.
		And lo and behold, in this book, there is listed many of the people that Dr. Greer has had conversations with.
		And on the record in published form, I forget who the publisher is, it is confirmed that, in fact, Bill Clinton has sent his emissaries out looking for substantive information on the ET question and has been stonewalled.
		And when we discovered this, Stephen and I, one of the things we suggested to you was that we do this show.
		We get Dr. Greer on if it was appropriate for him and his mind.
		He eventually agreed, and so that's going to be the substance of the next hour, which is the detailed conversation.
unidentified		Music.
unidentified		From the Kingdom of Night, Coast to Coast AM continues with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, there were reports, gentlemen, that the President of the United States, when he came into office in the first term, had requested information on whether UFOs were real, whether ETs were real, and so forth and so on, and received an answer and was dissatisfied with it.
		Now, Whether or not it's true, I have no idea, but there were very firm reports of that, and that may have led to the President's seeking information from other sources.
		Would you both agree that may be true?
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		It may be true, but actually, obviously, Stephen is in a much better position to really address that in great detail.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		I'd rather leave it for him to do it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The only thing I can add here is that during the 94 season, after the loss of Mars Observer in 93, we began our own efforts to really get to this White House.
		And we've, as far away as Hawaii, I took a special trip to Hawaii to meet with a friend of a friend of the president in one of these kind of cloak and dagger meetings, which ultimately wound up in the fall of 1994, right after the July 25th anniversary of Apollo 11, the 25-year anniversary, I was invited to Little Rock to meet with close associates of the President of the United States.
		Now, I've never told this before because it was not appropriate.
		It was not something I would put on the record because back-channel conversations should stay back-channel until you find that they are being stopped by other forces.
		In the conversation with Greer and in the on-the-record statements now made by Webster Hubble in his published book, it is very clear that the president and the administration's interest in E.T. matters took a stunning halt, a shattering halt with the death of Vincent Foster.
		And we might argue without the reasons.
		The fact is that Whitewater and all of the things that have risen up now to bite this administration and have been thrown at this administration took center stage, and there was apparently no time, at least that's one way of looking at it, for interests such as we are discussing this evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we know this.
		We know that documents were removed from Vincent Foster's office almost immediately following his death.
		There is testimony on the record about that fact.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is, if I just may quickly interject, this is obviously a very tricky place to go.
		I think at minimum, though, we can say this without any fear of contradiction, and that is that President Clinton, Bill Clinton came in with a very young team, a very open-minded team, very smart.
		They were on a high.
		They were in great shape.
		The world was open to them, and I think there were a lot of things that they had interest in.
		And whatever the reasons, the fact is, is that not that long after he was in office, he was literally hit with everything but the kitchen sink.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stephen, I don't want to push you to a place you don't want to go, but it is fair to say that the death of the White House counsel was the time marker point where things appeared to come to a screeching halt with regard to the interest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that true?
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Well, obviously, anytime you have a major event, your attention focuses there, and things get diverted.
		But the fact is that whatever the intention is to go back to these issues or maybe some other issues, never happened.
		Because from that point forward, when you count the indictment of Hubble and Travelgate, Whitewater, and the prosecutor, it's been one continuous, ongoing frontal assault on Clinton.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So he's saying, to say nothing of people leaping over the fence with AK-47s and Piper Cubs flying into the White House.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Somebody flew an airplane in it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It's all bigger.
		And C-130s falling out of the sky, hitting mountains outside of Cody, Wyoming, and Chinook helicopters going into weird circles on the ground and crashing.
		In other words, everything that could happen to this administration has happened.
		And if one is of a slight conspiratorial bent, as I have been known to be from time to time, I would say that Steve Bassett has a bit of a Pollyanna perspective on this because there is concerted, deep, entrenched opposition to information on extraterrestrial, either ruins or presence or whatever term you want to call it.
		And that opposition is not going to give up without a fight.
		Now, the reason I wanted to do tonight's show is because we know now the cavalry is on the edge of the hill.
		We know that this White House wanted to know.
		And this is something we didn't know before the publication of Hubble's book and the conversations with Stephen Greer.
		My proposal for the American people listening tonight is we have got a president who apparently still wants to know.
		In Ireland, a couple years ago, during a Christmas tree lighting ceremony in the center of Belfast, he suddenly, this president suddenly launched into the reading of a letter from a kid about Roswell and said, I want to know.
		Well, let's assume that there are two governments, as Dr. Mitchell is going to very forcefully get into.
		That we have the one that's the real one, and then we have the one we elect.
		Notice how I said that, all right?
		And that the real one deals with the big mega issues, i.e.
		the relationship of the human species to whatever's out there.
		And the one we elect, which Bill Clinton heads, at least in this country, is dealt, you know, usually deals with things that are somewhat more mundane, taxes and, you know, legislation and public transportation and the FAA and what's going to happen in the next millennium.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Richard, I don't want to put you to it loggerhead, but maybe I do.
		You are suggesting that there are two governments, as Dr. Mitchell will do later.
		I know he believes that as well.
		Well, because you don't have a lot of time.
		I know you don't.
		Stephen Bassett is petitioning the first government you talked about.
		If what you say is true and Dr. Mitchell says is true, then it doesn't do a damn bit of good to petition the government we have elected if they're not in control.
		You two want to roll that one around?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let me tell you why I agree with you, but I disagree with your ultimate conclusion.
		The way the first government, the secret one, the one that has manipulated policy on this issue, the ET issue, for 50 years, has gotten away with it, is by making the second government, the one we elect, think it's a nonsense issue.
		Where Stephen and I come together is we are now in total synchronization on a mechanism, on a protocol, on the enlisting of the American people in an basically educational program to let the second government know that the first one exists.
		And when the second one figures out it's being snookered, remember, my model for NASA, which is a microcosm of the larger issue, is That most of the system is honest.
		The way the nefarious manipulators get away with it is they start by making everybody think that there is no such thing as manipulation.
		As soon as that Rubicon is crossed, as soon as honest folks begin to raise their head and look around and say, wait a minute, this is just too coincidental.
		Somebody's pulling our strings.
		The game is almost up.
		And that, apparently, from what Stephen and others are now telling us, including the publication of Webster Hubble's book, I believe is where we are tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is Webster Hubble's book?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what does it say that is controversial with regard to tonight's topic?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		He basically said, you want to take this, Steve?
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Well, essentially, this story broke in the New York Post.
		Deborah Orrin, the writer there, got on it.
		And kudos to her.
		You have a reporter for a mainstream paper in a major city that got on a story that had a UFO connection and wrote a couple of stories on it.
		What can I say?
		I want to take this woman to dinner.
		In his book, he makes it clear that early in the administration, he was asked specifically when he went to justice to look into the UFO issue, try to get the answer, and the JFK issue.
		Now, obviously, the JFK issue muddies the water a little bit.
		But it shows a young president who's feeling as though he's got some power and knows now that he has the ability to perhaps see and know things that no one else can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, the answer that he got, apparently, was not satisfactory on either issue.
		Now, that goes back to what I said a little while ago.
		That alludes to what Richard Hoagland is talking about, and Dr. Mitchell will talk about it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is true.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		I mean, this has always been the case.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people, believe me, over the years, 95% of it, if not more, all done behind the scenes have gone and made queries and basically told to go away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stephen, you work with a government that we have elected.
		That's what you do.
		Do you agree or disagree that there is another government pulling strings, one that we have not elected?
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think you always have to be careful of the power of metaphors.
		Two governments, it's a nice thing.
		It rolls well off the tongue.
		But, of course, it's not two governments.
		it is in fact a uh...
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		it's really a job it's a it's a it's a it's a second agenda embedded in a government and the agenda has enough form and well We do not know if the National Security Council and all the other apparatus of the National Security State really set in concrete a la 1947 when President Truman signed the legislation which, among other things, established the CIA.
		If we ever got a chance to look at those documents, but judge after judge, even on the UFO question, has deemed that certain documents cannot even be reviewed, let alone declassified.
		So we don't know whether it's a second government in law established under the Constitution because of the perception of a huge national crisis, a la who's out there and what's out there.
		We don't know and we need to know.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course we do, but the fact is we don't know.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		But you have to make political strategy anyway.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And the only one we can work with is the one we can see and the one we elect.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me get to my point because I don't have a lot of time here, and I have a couple things I want to say.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, go ahead.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Based on 15 years of the Mars moon work, Art and the Bell audience know full well that we have discerned the outlines of what I believe is a secret conspiratorial clique of some kind.
		People who owe their allegiance to right and ritual and each other and not much to the Constitution.
		Where I find this curve crossing Dr. Mitchell's curve and even the Webster-Hubble curve is that all three curves seem to be saying that there's a group that we don't know that are faceless, who have been determining policy, and that most of the people that we do know haven't a clue as to what we're talking about unless you background them in several days of briefings.
		A la Dr. Greer's discussion in the next hour.
		What happened to me in Little Rock was very bizarre.
		I gave a major address at the university on the first night.
		The second night was set aside for this private meeting with briefings and documents with a very select group of Clinton close associates and friends.
		When we showed up at the second meeting that second night, nobody was there.
		In the place where we were supposed to meet, which was a private apartment, there were two Chippendale dancers who came out of a back room, and when people asked where the briefing was, they were told that I and the Clinton party, the friend that had set this up, had gone together to Texas.
		And that person disappeared for six months and only turned up eventually in Hawaii saying that, well, he actually didn't ever explain what happened to the meeting that was supposed to take place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds kind of like Francis Barwood's experience with a governor in Arizona.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Now, obviously, I was extremely upset.
		What now has put this in context is the basic death of Vincent Foster, because you have pre- and post-attention spans.
		Pre, the administration was open, post-I mean, this guy who wanted to set us up for these meetings obviously was not part of the inner inner circle that knew this was a subject that they really should not get very close to.
		So what we need to do is to examine where we go from here.
		We have a state of the union coming up where the president of the United States, through what I would term plausible deniability, his former colleague and associate Webb Hubble, man he appointed to the Justice Department, has published a book on the record avowing the interest of this president in this subject.
		If the American people, a la, the audience listening to us tonight, really give a damn, Art, here is an opportunity.
		Because we now know that if you send faxes or email or letters to this president, he cares, he wants to know, and he has been stonewalled.
		What would help in this process is if enough people before the State of the Union simply say, Bill, we're with you, go get them, we're behind you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, you would like to see people fax or write the White House, the President, and support the President in what you believe to be his interest anyway, giving him support to go after it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		In terms of the full page ad that Stephen and I have been discussing on the archives issue, which is critical, In terms of the petition, which Bob Dean is going to be discussing, in terms of congressional or White House amnesty, in terms of a general awareness, educational program of the elected government of the machinations of the unelected government, which separate studies, you know, mine and Enterprise and Dr. Mitchell are all converging, in fact, probably exists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Richard, is there any information then in that regard you would like to give the audience where to fax, where to call?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, as I said, we're going to be linking, and Keith, of course, is hearing me now.
		We're going to put a site up to Steve Greer's site with all of the appropriate faxes and email addresses and all that.
		So you can just go to Enterprise through our Bell, and that will take you to the appropriate places to send email and faxes.
		I just think we have a stunning opportunity here before this next State of the Union to let this president, who obviously has put Webster Hubble on the line in making this public, otherwise Hubble wouldn't have said anything.
		There is an open door here.
		Let's see who walks through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It should be known that one person who did not walk through tonight was Webster Hubble, who was invited to this program.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'll clarify that a little bit.
		I did talk with a very, very congenial man.
		Very, very likable fellow.
		He instantly liked the fellow.
		He talked to him for 60 minutes, and you're going, nice guy.
		You know, he didn't have a lot of time.
		This is a very complex show.
		There's a lot of heavy issues involved.
		It was the holidays.
		He really has to work with his publisher because he just, you know, when you have relationships and contracts, you just can't go running around promoting without some coordination.
		All of them were gone.
		We couldn't get to them.
		So I kind of think that it's very likely that Mr. Hubble may appear, possibly with Stephen Greer and I at a later media event later this week or next week, and I'll certainly give him an opportunity to do that.
		But this way he'll have a chance to listen to all of this and reflect and maybe even have a much more thorough dialogue on this.
		So I wouldn't rule out the possibility that we might be able to talk with him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, Richard, I want to thank you for being here.
		And Richard, I think that what you've said to us is you too had contacts like the ones we are going to hear described, or at least similar, with the White House, which were very active at one point, and then suddenly, without notice, at about the time Vince Foster was committing suicide or whatever it is that happened, at that point, communication stopped and got cut off.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's a fairly accurate description.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Can I make one point before we close out?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very quickly.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		I think one way to look at it is this.
		President Clinton had X amount of political capital when he came into office.
		He has had to give up a huge amount of that to all of the travails that came fairly early.
		He's also gone through a lot of money.
		He obviously doesn't have a lot to give.
		This is a major issue.
		I believe what's missing is that the president doesn't understand how much political capital actually exists within this issue and the amount of people that will rise behind him if he decides to step forward on this.
		I think he's the right president.
		I think he has the right demeanor and the right attitude.
		I think he has the right constituency.
		I think he would be very shocked to find that his political capital might suddenly go up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Stephen, thank you.
		And Richard, Richard C. Hoglund, thank you.
		We'll be doing a show soon.
		Good night, Richard.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Good night, Art, and good luck, everyone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
		Luck is what we'll need.
		I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Coast to Coast AM
		To fax Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nine, dial area code 702-727-8499.
		That's area code 702-727-8499.
		Please limit faxes to one or two pages.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, and I wish you all a good morning.
		This is a special program this morning.
		With us is Stephen Bassett, the nation's only UFO lobbyist in Washington, D.C. He comes to us from Washington.
		He's got a very distinguished background.
		As a matter of fact, he's got a background in business development consulting and a degree in physics, and he's brought all of that to Washington, D.C. and is working for a number of organizations, one of which is CSETI.
		And we will also have this hour Dr. Stephen Greer.
		Dr. Greer is widely regarded as the world's foremost authority on the subject of extraterrestrial intelligence and is the founder and international director of the Center for Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence, or CSETI.
		A lifetime member of Alpha Omega Alpha, the nation's most prestigious medical honors society, Dr. Greer is an emergency physician and former chairman of the Department of Emergency Medicine at Caldwell Memorial Hospital in North Carolina.
		Dr. Greer, as director of CSETI, has led research teams throughout the world investigating the existence of ETI and on several occasions has successfully established preliminary contact and communication with extraterrestrial spacecraft at close range.
		He has met with and provided briefings for senior members of government, military, and intelligence operations in the U.S. and around the world, including senior CIA officials, joint chiefs of staff, White House staff, senior members of Congress and congressional committees, senior U.N. leadership and diplomats, senior military officials in the United Kingdom and Europe, and cabinet-level members of the Japanese government, among others.
		And that is very specifically what we are going to be talking about this evening.
		That is, contacts that have been previously not talked about.
		So that's what's coming up in a moment.
		All right, for what you are about to hear, ladies and gentlemen, there are links on my website right now.
		So if you want to read as you listen, the address is www.artbell.com.
		And much of what you're going to hear, the critical information you're going to hear, you can read about in depth on the CSETI website as well as the other links we have up there for you.
		Now, back to Washington, D.C. and Stephen Bassett.
		Stephen, welcome back.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Yes, nice to be back, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you let me know, we are joined in some markets right now, so if you want to give a little tiny sort of recap, go ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then we will go to Dr. Greer.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
		And we will have an opportunity to cover what was in that first hour again, but it will be kind of spread out a little bit.
		Dr. Edgar Mitchell is going to be joining us in the third hour of the show.
		And then Robert Dean will be joining us, Peter Gerston, and Jim Mars, the author of Alien Agenda.
		So there's going to be a lot of analysis of what Stephen presents tonight after the fact, and then we're going to be going into some information we're going to hand out for people to be able to work with directly.
		But essentially, there are political initiatives that are coalescing.
		There have been some triggers that have galvanized this activity, one of which was the extraordinary disposal of records by the National Archives, Naval Research Laboratories that was brought public by Admiral Gaffney.
		Certainly Philip Corso's book in the mid-year, which is still hanging out there without a response from the government, major issue.
		And then, of course, Webster Hubble's book indicating the White House interest.
		It was brought to the attention of Mike Curry in press conference.
		There was no response.
		There are a lot of trial balloons floating around.
		There are a lot of events going on, and we're capitalizing on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you have a letter that is going full page into the Washington Post entitled to the President and Congress of the United States on the matter of extraterrestrial presence.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		But and so this is going to have to be going back over many times.
		This is very complex and very difficult to assimilate in a short amount of time.
		But what brings us tonight is the fact that when I entered the field, I've met a lot of fascinating and wonderful people.
		Every walk of life.
		This is the most interesting and complex environment one can ever imagine.
		Everybody has a certain something to bring to the table, a certain skill, a certain approach, a certain view.
unidentified		Sometimes it's complex, but that's to be understood.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		But of all the people that I've encountered, probably the person most focused, most dynamic, who has the kinds of leadership qualities which are required when you're trying to push up against a 10,000-year-old worldview, entrenched very deeply and very closely held.
		No one, I think, comes close to Stephen Greer.
		His position in this historically is unique.
		It's to some degree a matter of being in the right place at the right time.
		To some degree, it's a matter of personal life history, personal philosophy.
		But when the right things come together, sometimes you get a force which moves large objects.
		And in this case, the objects are the United States government.
		And for that reason, I have tried in every way to help him in whatever he wants to do.
		And when he indicated he would like to be on the show or he discussed it, I felt it was an appropriate venue.
		And I'm very pleased that he was able to put two hours together this evening to bring this material out, really for the first time in public.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then let us begin on a personal note.
		Here is Dr. Stephen Greer.
		I want to begin, though, on just a very personal note.
		The Washington Times of this night is reporting that Congressman Schiff, Representative Stephen Schiff, New Mexico's Republican, began chemotherapy Tuesday to fight an aggressive skin cancer that has taken over the entire right side of his face and impaired his ability to speak.
		It is a very, very sad situation.
		We certainly wish Representative Schiff luck in his fight against cancer, the fight, no doubt, of his life.
		And as many of you may or may not know, Dr. Stephen Greer has been afflicted as well to a lesser degree than his assistant, Sherry Adamak, who I understand is not in very good condition.
		And I would at least like to give Dr. Greer an opportunity to say something about Sherry.
		Doctor, welcome to the program.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, very glad to be here.
		And I would like to ask the people who are listening, who are so inclined and who believe in the power of the conscious mind and of prayer to hold Sherry Atomak in prayer and to pray for her comfort and healing.
		She is in Denver, but she is critically ill, and we're very saddened by that.
		And we would appreciate if the people who are listening could say a prayer for Sherry Adamak and for her healing.
		It's a very grave situation.
		I just came back from Denver tonight.
		And we're very concerned about this.
		She's been a confidant and a friend and a support and has been a key to our being able to achieve what we have over the last six years.
		And of course, it's very sad to see her so ill, but she has metastatic breast cancer and the fight against it is not going well.
		So I believe in the power of prayer.
		And so anyone who is listening who also accepts that, I would appreciate their good thoughts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I too believe in it, Doctor.
		Thank you very much.
		And I guess we ought to just go ahead and launch and take advantage of the time because we don't have a lot of it.
		Right.
		So away we go, I guess.
		If you have any questions, Stephen Bassett, that you would like to ask of Dr. Greer to get us going, go right ahead.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Stephen can, I think, get into this very, very, very, very quickly on his own.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You are going to tell us about contacts you have had that nobody knew about or has known about until this moment.
		Is that right, Doctor?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's correct.
		And I'm doing it because in a very real sense, Webster Hubble opened the door for this when he made his disclosures about the president asking him to look into the UFO matter.
		And all of you, I'm sure, know about that from your discussions in the previous hour.
		I presume that was covered.
		And essentially, at this point, what I think the public needs to know is that Webster Hubble reporting that is a confirmation of what I have been saying without giving the specifics for about four years, and that is there is very high-level interest in the subject, and it was not something that was whimsical.
		I want to emphasize this, and I think if Mr. Hubble could be on the show, he would confirm this, that this was not a whimsical inquiry on the part of the White House or on the part of the President.
		In 1993, shortly after the President took office, we formulated the Project Starlight Initiative of CSETI to advise key people in the government about the subject and also to encourage them to facilitate a disclosure and a reversal of the covert policies surrounding the whole UFO and extraterrestrial matter.
		And we, over a very short course, a period of time, were able to achieve a number of important meetings.
		On December 13th, 1993, a few months after he took office, I was asked to come to Washington and in a townhouse in Arlington met with the then director of Central Intelligence, Jim Woolsey.
		And I was informed prior to going that I would be the first person to brief him on the subject and that while he had an interest in the subject and felt that the subject was valid, that he had not been able to find out any information through channels, even though he was the head of the CIA, the NSA, the NRO, and other civilian agencies.
		Director of Central Intelligence, of course, is a cabinet-level position.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe, Doctor, that he was directed to seek out this contact by the President?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		I would say that I can't comment that he sought out this particular contact by the President.
		I can say emphatically that it was taken extremely seriously, and of course the CIA director makes the daily intelligence advisories for the President.
		I can also tell you that this meeting was not an off-the-cuff meeting that lasted for five or ten minutes, but this meeting was nearly three hours in duration.
		You can imagine my shock when I was informed prior to going that I was going to be the first person to brief these folks on this subject.
		It took place around dinner time over a dinner with the CIA director and his wife, the facilitator of the meeting and his wife and myself and of course my wife and the six of us gathered and discussed this.
		I gave a full briefing and a full discussion of the geopolitical implications of the matter, the scientific evidence which exists, and the very significant intra-governmental crises which I think and which of course he confirmed exists because of a lack of proper disclosure on the subject to senior officials.
		You have to understand that this is a CIA director who had made inquiries and who had not been satisfied with his answers.
		And I will remind your listeners that what Webster Hubble confirmed in his book is that the president asked him to look into the UFO subject and they were not happy with the answers they were getting, which is really a euphemism for saying that they felt that they were not having the information disclosed fully or that they were being lied to.
		But they've got serious problems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, in the first hour, Richard Hoagland, to sum up what he said, essentially said that he believes there are two governments, one we have elected and another that is manipulative behind the scenes, pulling strings, that sort of thing.
		And what you have just said would seem to sort of lean toward confirming that if the President of the United States has to have the director of the CIA meet with Dr. Greer to get information he can't seem to get through his own very large sources.
		So is that the conclusion that one comes to?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's one of the things that is the concern, and I have reached the conclusion after briefing senior Pentagon officials and other people in other foreign countries of similar rank, that there is indeed a deep cover covert program dealing with this, which in terms of its functioning is tantamount to a parallel or secondary governmental operation.
		It is sort of the fullest manifestation of what Eisenhower, a conservative Republican and five-star general, warned us about in 1961 when he said that we should be very careful of the excesses inherent within the military-industrial complex at that time.
		And of course, that was 36 years ago now, or 37.
		And so I think that, yes, there is some real concern there.
		Now, I want to emphasize that these meetings were intended to be briefings for senior government officials.
		There were many briefing materials that were given not only to the CIA director, Mr. Woolsey, but also to other senior members of the Clinton administration.
		And members of our team, of the CSETI Project Starlight team, were able to provide briefing materials to and meetings with the president's closest friend, and this is the family of the Bruce Lindsay family,
		Bruce Lindsay being the president's sort of a senior counselor in the White House, but also one of his closest friends, certainly equal to, if not exceeding, Webster Hubble in terms of his closeness to the first family.
		We were also able to do similar briefing materials and conveyed them to the president's science advisor, to Tony Lake, who at the time was the national security advisor to the president, to senior people in Al Gore's office, his chief of staff, as well as Al Gore and many of his personal friends.
		I'm saying this very quickly, and I don't know if your audience is really catching the significance of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, this is Dr. Stephen Greer of CSETI meeting, for example, three hours with the director of the CIA, and of course, many other names have come from your lips since that statement.
		But may I ask you, what was the demeanor of, can you characterize the meeting you had with a three-hour meeting with the director of the CIA as very, very serious?
		What was the character of that meeting, Doctor?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, grave, serious, not at all dismissive.
		The CIA director had seen one of these UFOs long before he was director of the CIA.
		He knew the subject was real.
		He knew that there must be something, I believe he felt terribly wrong, that something like this would not be something he would have found out about after many months of being at the top of the intelligence community.
		And I think in addition to that, he took very seriously not only the need to change secrecy on the subject, but was also very concerned that we had discovered as many top secret witnesses and other evidence as we had and that we were intending to bring it forward if the government didn't do so.
		So you have to remember, this has been going on now for four years.
		It's been exhausting for me.
		It's been intense.
		And for the CIA director, I mean, there were times when, well, he would just hold his head in his hands going, oh, my God, oh, oh, my God, oh, wow.
		I mean, he was just exclaiming as we went through documents that we have acquired, as we went through cases, as we went through photographic evidence, as we went through other types of scientific evidence, but also as we went through the implications of the question, vis-à-vis the entire issue of the propulsion systems of these objects,
		the implications to the world economy, to the issue of global warming, to the geopolitical situation, and other relevant issues to someone in a position, a cabinet-level position dealing with intelligence.
		So these were thorough.
		And by the way, he's a brilliant man, Jim Woolsey, a very, very bright man.
		He was very alert in the sense that he would learn quickly what the points were and what the evidence was, and we would move on.
		It didn't take much time to go through the evidential part of it.
		It probably took half an hour to talk about the evidence, and the other couple of hours were spent talking about the significance of the subject, the implications of a disclosure, the geopolitical significance, and what have you.
		Arguably, this is probably the most important meeting that's ever occurred in the history of ufology.
		I haven't talked about it up till now, except in vague terms, because I felt that there just simply wasn't time.
		At this point, I really feel it is time to discuss these things.
		But the main point of it, of my coming out with this kind of information, is to say that if the president's chief people in this area, whether it be Webster Hubble and Justice Department making inquiries and going out to NORAD and asking questions and not being answered honestly,
		or whether it's the CIA director not having been briefed until I met with him or what have you, the point is that if the executive branch or certain aspects of the executive branch which we have elected and which have then been appointed legally according to our Constitution cannot get adequate information on this subject,
		then what must happen is an open congressional hearing at which key witnesses are subpoenaed, and we have identified nearly 150 of them, and that those witnesses then provide to not only the President and to the Congress, but also to the American people and to the world the information which would be definitive on this subject.
		We have those witnesses, and I would like to encourage your listeners to log on to our website and to write and call the committees that we have on our website now about that.
		We can get into more of that in a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Certainly we will.
		bottom of the hour.
		That web address is www.artbell.com.
		Here is Dr. Stephen Greer and Stephen Bassett.
		And Dr. Greer, again, it's so incredible to me that the director of the CIA, apparently at the direction of the president, or certainly through direction of the president, would come to you and have a three-hour meeting that I'm forced to ask you, because I wonder, what causes you to come forward with this right now beyond what Webster Hubble might have said in his book?
		I mean, it's quite a revelation.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is.
		But I want to emphasize that the timing of this is because we have just finished an approach to the Congress of the United States.
		We have been meeting with members of Congress.
		And we have now identified 15 key congressional committees which are in an area where they could have hearings on the subject.
		And our point here is that if, as Webster Hubble says, and as certainly we learned through private meetings with other people, that the key people in the executive branch were not having this information properly and fully disclosed to them, which constitutionally they certainly should, then it is time to hold these hearings.
		And it is time for the people listening to your show to contact these key committees.
		Now, if they go into our website, which is www.cseti.org, O-R-G, they will find on that a list of the chairman of these key committees as well as their address and phone numbers and what have you.
		We are encouraging people to do that now because we have just sent to each of these, the key chairmen of these committees, a full briefing packet, a briefing document, videotape of some of the top secret witnesses who were with us in Washington in April at the meetings that we held for the members of Congress, as well as a huge number of government documents and other pieces of evidence that have gone to them.
		And that is waiting for them when they come back from their New Year's break this week.
		And we would think it very advisable for people to write and call these specific chairmen.
		And by the way, this list is triaged so that from top to bottom, it is listed for the most important person and committee to contact down to the ones that are less important.
		So it is listed in rank order.
		So number one is Chairman Dan Burton, Congressman Dan Burton of the House Government Committee on Government Reform and Oversight.
		Number two is the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, Chairman Porter Goff.
		Number three is the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Senator Richard Shelby, etc., and so on.
		Now these are ordered in the fashion they are for two reasons.
		One is the area of relevance to their holding hearings.
		In other words, these are committees that are extremely relevant.
		And number two, the fact that we have met with either chairman or with members of these committees and there has been interest from certain key people on these committees.
		But they need the public, I think, to let them know that they feel, as the American people, that this should be done.
unidentified		so we're really encouraging people to do that Now, from the Kingdom of Mine, more coast-to-coast AM with Art Bell.
unidentified		Here again is Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you characterized the meeting with the CIA director as one in which he looked at your evidence and put his head in his hand several times, saying, oh my God, now that means you had a big, big impact on him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was the follow-up to that, or did communications suddenly end, or where did it go?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, where it went was essentially I handed him a strategic outline that deals with the disclosure of this information and the specific actions which we felt that the Clinton administration, the CIA director, and the executive branch in general should take.
		We also asked that he follow up specifically on locating documents related to known events and known projects related to the subject.
		And he promised to do so.
		It was a very affable meeting.
		It was a very, I think, mutually respectful and supportive meeting.
		And CIA Director Woolsey did say that he would look into that.
		Subsequently, he got back with our team and basically reported not dissimilarly to us what was reported to Stephen Schiff, Congressman Schiff, and to the government accounting office.
		And that is basically that the files weren't there on cases that we knew existed from witnesses that had worked on them.
		And it's what I've come to call the empty file syndrome where huge areas, and this of course speaks to this destruction of records issue that Bass had mentioned earlier, and that is that it's a very disturbing thing because here's a director of central intelligence looking into certain cases and information that we were funneling to him and providing to him, getting back and essentially not being able to find out anything on it.
		And it sort of mirrors, it's sort of a document corollary to Webster Hubble going out to NORAD and being told, oh, we don't know anything about this subject, when I've got top secret witnesses who have been in installations where NORAD has handed off UFOs as they've tracked them, not only from deep space, but in our atmosphere.
		So, you know, you get into this sort of strange, like going through the looking glass in Alice in Wonderland, where up is down and right is left.
		But at any rate, there was that kind of follow-up.
		Of course, Woolsey, the CIA director, Mr. Woolsey, left office later in 1994 for a number of reasons.
		But I want to emphasize that I cannot say that he was directed to meet with us by the president, but I can say that he asked for the meeting, that it was taken very seriously, and that we have been able to provide key briefing materials and definitive evidence to other key White House people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we know that the President had intense interest in this through Webb Hubble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We already know that.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, but we also, but I know a lot more than that.
		And in fact, I was asked to put together substantial briefing materials for Mr. Lawrence Rockefeller to take to his ranch, the J.Y. Ranch in the Grand Tetons, where I have stayed as a guest, when he was going to host the First Family there, Mr. and Mrs. Clinton.
		And that he did, in fact, have meetings with and did bring up this subject, as we had discussed with the First Family, and that these issues had been discussed.
		I was specifically asked to put together the absolute best evidence and documents I could related to the subject so that he could take them with him.
		Then this occurred in the summer, one of the summer vacations which the President took.
		What year?
		You may recall.
		I believe that was 95.
		I'd have to look at my diary.
		I have like a 500-page diary that I've kept on all these things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, this was Mr. Rockefeller requesting the information to give to the President at a summer vacation retreat.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And similarly, people who have worked closely with the President or are friends with the First Family and with other key people in the administration, we have met with at length for many hours, and they've then brought materials to very significant figures in the White House, such as Bruce Lindsay, Tony Lake, National Security Advisor.
		I mean, this has been a very significant effort at educating and providing this information, and we know that there was interest there.
		The question is, four years, now five years after he has taken office, there is simply no way that the president can regard this issue as non-existent.
		But on the other hand, as I have had administration figures tell me, we can't, you know, I've had this said to me, we can't disclose what we don't have access to.
		But my God, I mean, these are people at the level of the director of CIA, and I mean, we're not talking low-level munchkins.
		So this is a very significant thing.
		And I think the media needs to hone in on what Webster Hubble said, because it certainly confirms what I'm saying now, and that is that there has not been the kind of disclosure that there should be either to Congressman Schiff or to these key people in the Clinton administration.
		And the only way to resolve it, the only way to resolve it, is to hold open hearings within the Congress.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Open hearings.
		All right.
		Well, again, I think it's important the audience understand that they simply, Mr. Woolsey and others, did not simply come back to you and say, we don't know anything about this.
		What they said was, the records are gone.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Can I make two points here?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of course.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		You asked the question, what triggered this?
		There's another thing that Stephen didn't mention, and that's this.
		And there's some point I want to make, namely that when Admiral Gaffney's letter surfaced regarding the destruction of the NRL research notebooks and so forth, we looked into it.
		We discovered one that the process involves omission, meaning a notice is sent out, and if you don't get a response, into the incinerator.
		We learned that classified documents throughout the government military intelligence can go directly from classified into the incinerator, never declassified.
		Though I believe the National Archives is really not at fault here.
		I believe there's something not quite right about this whole flap.
		It has plausible deniability written all over it.
		But in any event, it certainly raised the specter that, you know, on the one hand, we know major progress is being made in Washington.
		We know the awareness level is increasing.
		And yet we see this records disposal process wide open to complete gross misuse.
		So you can envision a scorched earth policy with people a little nervous just starting to throw stuff into the boxes, working them into the system, and get them out the door, which may be comfortable in the short run, but they're destroying priceless historical records.
		And so at this point, you have to make a move, and Stephen, I think, has taken a bold step in discussing these meetings.
		Now, obviously, there's concerns about other people feeling that, well, now their meetings are going to be disclosed.
		I think Stephen would certainly state that all the congressional meetings that are going on that are basically on background are going to stay that way.
		We're not going to start throwing around names of congresspeople and senators and so forth.
		But with respect to the White House and what's happened, and given the fact that we may see records start going into the trash can, that something had to be done to take it to another level.
		And he's done that.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, the other thing, the reason why I think this needs to be discussed, is that the press and the public in America need to know that this issue, no matter what the President's press secretary may say, was not taken in a whimsical way.
		It was taken seriously.
		It is still regarded seriously.
		Believe me when I tell you, nobody was laughing.
		I mean, there were people virtually in tears or very shaken by the gravity of this kind of information.
		But nobody was laughing, and no one is laughing except very arrogant fools in the media sometimes.
		But I think that it's very important to understand that the president needs to also support this hearing process, that the White House staff and the president need to say, look, if there are programs related to this subject which we don't know about, you know, not like they're part of the cover-up or something, then it is appropriate under our Constitution for the Congress of the United States to hold open hearings.
		And what I'm saying is that unlike 1966 when Gerald Ford held hearings, and there was really nothing that came forward out of that, we now have identified dozens and dozens of extraordinary top-secret witnesses, and we are still identifying them.
		If there's anyone out there who knows of these kind of witnesses who are in the military, intelligence field, aerospace field, who know about this subject, they should contact us immediately at 704-274-5671.
		But we are very much wanting to say that the President needs to work with the Congress in resolving what I think is a substantial crisis in our government related to these ultra-secret covert programs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There may be a lot of people in the audience, Doctor, who don't know the brick wall that Stephen Schiff, Representative Schiff, ran into when trying to look into Roswell through the GAO, that investigation.
		And they really ran into a stone wall.
		How many records relating to that period of time were found to be missing?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		All of them were missing.
		I mean, that's the whole problem.
		They came back and said essentially from the Roswell Army Air Base, I forget the exact date, but certainly from somewhere around 47 or 46, all the way up for several years, all those records they claimed were, quote, missing.
		And it's ridiculous.
		It was the only nuclear bomb squadron in the world at the time in 1947, the 509th.
		So, you know, the question is, where are these things?
		Who has seen that they have been spirited away into God knows what kind of black pit or Calcutta, black hole somewhere?
		And I think that it's important that the way around that, if executive branch people like Webster Hubble or CIA director or other key people to the president or the president's science advisor, Dr. Gibbons, who has been met with by people I've been working with for a number of years, including Mr. Rockefeller and Dr. C.B. Scott Jones.
		And what I would say is that if these people are not being fully informed of what they should know about, what the chief executive should know about, then we need to absolutely make it a national priority to hold these open hearings.
		And I think whatever we can do to put the spotlight on this subject so that the people in Congress are supported by the public and also by the President is key.
		And we must do that as soon as we possibly can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, do we, in your opinion, still have a constitutional government or is that what's on the line here?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have a constitutional government, absolutely.
		However, Many of the key issues which the constitutional government should be dealing with have been sidetracked into these parallel ultra-secret covert programs, just as Eisenhower had warned in 1961 when he gave his last address to the nation.
		I believe that the only way to resolve that kind of dysfunction, which grew out of the World War II and post-World War II environment, is to have a full disclosure on the subject and to essentially put a spotlight in these areas of covert dysfunction, and that's what should happen.
		I know that the CIA Director Woolsey told us that he really was in favor with the end of the Cold War of an increasing openness in government.
		In fact, he said so in press conferences.
		He said so on the radio and on television.
		So what I would say is that the Clinton administration needs to act and follow through with, I think, what are their instincts, which are very good.
		I think the gut instincts of the Clinton administration were correct to try to bring around sort of more openness and trust in government by it being open and disclosing about things that no longer needed to be held secret.
		And our position was that with the end of the Cold War and with the vast geopolitical changes which had occurred pursuant to that, that it was not necessary to hold the entire subject of UFOs in secret.
		There may be technological implications that have national security impact that may have to be evaluated, but there's no read to continue, no need to continue denying the subject wholesale.
		And also for the military and intelligence units that are ultra-secret that deal with this to withhold that information from a CIA director or the president's men, including appointees like Webster Hubble.
		I mean, if the president sends someone like Webster Hubble out to NORAD and asks questions, he should not come back empty-handed, nor should he be deceived.
		And that's what has happened.
		And I think that that is disgraceful.
		So those things need to be correct.
		I think they're fixable, but I think we're going to have to be very honest with ourselves, and I think we're going to have to confront the excesses of secrecy which have evolved over the last 50 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Doctor, let me ask you this.
		The President's interest in the issue apparently seemed to decline or wane a bit around about the time of the death of his counsel, Vincent Foster.
		Would you agree?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		No, I wouldn't say that at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You wouldn't say that at all.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		I don't think that's the case.
		you think his interest today is still as intense i think he has real interest but i think there's also real concern and that is if he cannot find good credible information on the subject or if his main piece So basically, what can he then do?
		And I've had people in the administration turn to me and say, you know, it's not that the emperor has no clothes, but in the sense that they have said something very similar to that and have pointed out that what can he do to disclose something that he doesn't have full information on?
		And it is a very serious problem.
		And at this point, it's not like the president and the people who have been around him are ignorant of the subject.
		You can only conclude one of two things.
		Either they are being left out of being fully informed and empowered on this issue, or they are part of the secrecy.
		Either one is horrific.
		And I think it's the former.
		I don't want to believe it's the latter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the president has the bully pulpit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That he has.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Sure, absolutely.
		And it should be used.
		He wants a legacy.
		You know, one of the things that the president keeps saying is, he doesn't say this, but people close to him have said it to the media and also to me, that he's looking for a legacy up into the year 2000.
		Well, here it is.
		Mr. President, memo to the White House staff.
		This subject, if handled properly, would be that legacy because it would be a disclosure that would change the world forever and for the good.
		It would put the people back into knowledge of things which they had been deceived about.
		He would gain incredible support for doing so.
		And I will remind your listeners, but also the president, that more people believe this subject is real and that aspects of the government are lying to them than ever voted for the president in either of his elections.
		In fact, if you added up both of his elections, it would be less than the number of people who believe this is real.
		And so I think that it would be a win-win situation.
		Moreover, there's all this talk about global warming and the effects.
		Well, the technologies related to these extraterrestrial vehicles, which have been studied for 50 years, if those could be declassified and put into peaceful civilian use, they would completely, over a period of years, be able to replace the internal combustion engine and all the causes of the greenhouse gases and global warming.
		I just finished having discussions with people associated with NASA and the National Science Foundation on this particular issue, and they are very interested in seeing this come out.
		But those people don't have any power to release these secrets.
		Therefore, the only way to resolve this conundrum, really, is to have the President and the Congress agree to have an inquiry and to have the subject come out in a full and open disclosure through hearing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Doctor, stand by, please.
		Dr. Stephen Greer and Stephen Bassett are my guests.
		When we return, we will be joined by Apollo 14 astronaut, Dr. Edgar Mitchell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to a rebroadcast of one of Art Bell's most popular programs.
		When you hear phone numbers, please do not call.
		Music Now, from the Kingdom of Mars, more Ghost-to-Choast AM with Art Bell.
		Here again is Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now back to our program.
		Quite a considerable program it is.
		Stephen Bassett, Dr. Stephen Greer, and now Apollo 14 astronaut, Dr. Edgar Mitchell.
		And I guess I would just ask Dr. Greer some amazing revelations from you tonight.
		The Los Angeles Times would be listening in L.A., the New York Times would be listening in New York City right now.
		And if you were a reporter and you were going to write a headline based on what has been said so far, what would you write?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not a reporter, but I think what I would write is that serious interest exists in the government on the UFO issue, and it is time for hearings.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Mitchell, welcome to the program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would like for the three of you in this hour to kind of kick this whole thing around.
unidentified		Okay.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		I would like to also welcome Dr. Mitchell, if I may, interject here.
		A man I admire greatly.
		If the list of true Renaissance men and women in the world today is not a particularly long list, but almost certainly Dr. Mitchell would have to be on that list.
unidentified		That's kind of you.
unidentified		Thank you.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		I'd like to make a point here, if I may.
		And it gets back to something that was said before the turn of the hour.
		It has to do with timeline and President Nixon, the White House.
		And it goes like this.
		I hope you can follow.
		It's a very powerful timeline here.
		You start with the elections in the year 2000, very important elections.
		A lot is going to be involved, and be very contentious.
		That's in the fall of that year.
		The campaigns for that election will begin, obviously, early in the year setting up for the primaries.
		If disclosure and acknowledgement is going to take place, it can't happen right there at the beginning of those campaigns.
		You can't have a situation where it's a Monday morning and the campaign people and the candidate are getting together for their briefing and the campaign manager says, well, what's up?
		And they say, well, over the weekend, the president acknowledged that aliens exist in our airspace.
		And the candidate is supposed to say, well, what's our position going to be on that?
		It can't happen then.
		It's probably got to happen at least a year prior to the beginning of the 2000 campaign, which puts you in early 99, so that there's one full year for digestion and debate and discussion and whatever else has to take place so that when the campaign in 2000 begins, it can really be a legitimate and reasonable part of that major election.
		In order to get to acknowledgement and disclosure in early 99, you've almost certainly got to start the congressional hearing process very early in 1988, which brings us to President brings us to President Clinton and the State of the Union address on the 27th of this month.
		President Clinton is in the perfect position.
		He knows there's a developing petition movement mounting out here in the hinterlands.
		It's growing every day, and a lot of signatures are heading toward the White House and toward Washington.
		He knows there are discussions going on in the Hill.
		He knows there's interest in the government.
		He knows his own interest.
		If he were to elect to call for a congressional hearing in the State of the Union address, which is not a particularly high risk, he's simply calling for a hearing for these witnesses to come forward and say what they have to say.
		Nothing more, nothing less, with protection, with some assistance, so there's no risk to them.
		He then opens the door for Congress to act.
		The people will see the government acting in concert as it's supposed to do when the big stuff comes along.
		And we could actually have these hearings by spring.
		If he doesn't, he misses a tremendous opportunity.
		I hope that the Webster Hubble event is kind of a trial balloon to see how we respond.
		And I hope we're responding well.
		But there is a powerful timeline here.
		If we miss the window, and if we get in a situation where we really can't get through the standard processes, so the disclosure happens well in advance of that campaign, you're going to have a very tough situation.
		If it's forced on us in the middle of the campaign, it's going to be very, very chaotic, and I would not want to see that.
		Having said that, I'd like to give certainly Stephen a chance to elaborate if he has any more to say about some of the particulars of the White House staff, including Al Gore, because I know that there is an interest there, and Al Gore, as we know, potentially is the president in waiting.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, and one thing I want to emphasize is that the timing of it, people say, well, isn't this a good time?
		And we've been kicking this around in our strategy session since 1993.
		And we concluded that as a new president, it was well before he'd have to run for reelection.
		Then, of course, nothing came from the White House.
		He ran, got reelected.
		Then it was, well, now he's reelected so he can really run at this and what have you.
		Basically, there's never a good time and there's never a bad time to deal with something this large.
		It simply needs to be done.
		And I think it really is quite independent of any of the electoral processes.
		Although one would think conventional wisdom is that you'd need to time it that way.
		In point of fact, it could have been done in 93, 94, 95, 96, 97.
		Now we're in 98.
		And it needs to just go ahead and the process needs to go forward.
		And to the skeptic who says, well, my God, this is something that, why would anyone put their neck out there on something like this?
		The fact of the matter is, majority of Americans believe there's something there.
		And I don't think that there's going to be much downside to holding these kinds of hearings, at least politically, so long as it's done seriously, scientifically, and credibly.
		And President Ford did it in 1966.
		I don't see, I mean, Congressman Ford, who later became President Ford, I don't know why it can't be done now by one of these chairmen of these committees.
		So I think that what they really need is to hear from the public and from the media saying, look, there's an issue here.
		Let's get to the bottom of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what you have already said tonight, Doctor, is going to cause a giant ripple in the force.
		And during the break, I know there was a discussion going on about names.
		Now, you briefed Mr. Woolsey, director of the CIA, for three hours.
		That's a big headline.
		You spoke with, apparently, Tony Lake.
		You spoke with Rockefeller, who requested information to be given to the president during a vacation break.
		This is all big news.
		The administration is probably going to react in some way to your releasing all of this.
		What do you expect if somebody should stand up during a news conference and ask the president a question based on what we're doing tonight?
		How do you think the White House would react?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, I really couldn't predict.
		Well, I do want to correct one thing.
		I didn't meet with Tony Lake, but people on our team have met with him and provided the briefing materials, the same ones that we provide to the president via Lawrence Rockefeller and also to the CIA director when I met with him.
		By the way, I will comment, if people are interested in the printed materials that were given to these officials, we have about 80 copies of them left and they can order them.
		They're on our website.
		You can just get them from us now.
		We're releasing these printed materials, which have a tremendous amount of information in them.
		What I would say, though, is that the White House is going to have to react to this in one of two ways.
		Either they're going to be dismissive of it, or they're going to say the truth, and that is, yes, there's been interest, but we never were able to confirm this.
		In this sense, you know, they say, you know, I point this out quite frequently.
		When a Department of Defense official says, we don't know anything about UFOs and we don't look into it, he is probably saying the truth because he simply is not in a compartmentalized area or has been, quote, read into a compartmentalized area that deals with it.
		So I think that the point is that the press needs to be sophisticated enough to say, well, if there's something there and you haven't been informed about it, what's the best way to get at it?
		And my answer would be that it needs to be at some cooperative effort between the White House and these congressional committees.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but after briefing the CIA director, Doctor, you have the CIA director come back to you and say, the records are gone.
		And that brings me to Dr. Mitchell.
		The obvious implication is that there are some people or some force that is manipulating events outside of our elected government.
		Dr. Mitchell, is that what you believe?
unidentified		Well, the evidence seems to point there.
unidentified		The public, I mean, these events are taking place, and the total silence and some of the absurd things that have come out of government so far is indicating many people are totally naive, but they don't have any good pressure to really look, to break through this wall of silence that we're seeing and letting something realistic be looked at.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, are you concerned about revealing too much, Dr. Mitchell, about revealing too much, too many names right now, about stepping on too many toes?
unidentified		Well, not particularly, but I think you ought to know, I think we ought to be aware if there are those who have already indicated they do not want this to be opened up.
		Do we have any indication of that?
		And I don't know that.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		No, actually, we don't.
		It's interesting.
		Every single person that I have met with, whether it's a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee or people at the Pentagon, and you were with me at a meeting there at Dr. Mitchell, and none of them have said that they really think this thing should be kept secret still.
		Now, the question about whether to talk about these kind of meetings and who has been abriefed and who has received which materials, my personal feeling is that the President's close friend, Webster Hubble, opened the door.
		When he said the President of the United States asked me to go and find out about UFOs, as far as I'm concerned, he gave a green light because as a good friend of the President can talk about that, I don't see why we should any longer not talk about these sorts of initiatives and meetings which have been going on for now four years.
		Because I think what they underscore is that they underscore what Webb Hubble tried to tell the public.
		He tried to tell the public, hey, we went out there, but we were not given any direct answers that satisfied us.
		And that is exactly what our contention is, is that these people are good people in our government are not lying to the American people.
		They're simply not being given the information that they rightly should have.
		And that needs to be changed.
		And I think that can be changed through these hearings.
unidentified		And the only way that's really going to happen is exactly the way we're doing it, is bring the pressure of the press and of the electorate onto this issue and force the issue.
unidentified		It's the only way it's really going to happen.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Mitchell, what is your opinion of the media stance right now?
		Do you see signs of courage on the part of some elements?
		Are you getting some positive reaction from some of the upscale media people?
unidentified		I can't really see any serious movement in this direction.
		Everybody seems to be holding back and waiting.
		There's been enough tongue-in-cheek comment, enough snickering and carrying on, dismissing the subject for so many years.
		Overcoming the inertia that has been set up there is exceedingly difficult.
		And the only thing that's going to do it, I believe, is a rise in public demand for this to happen.
		Eventually the press is going to come around when enough people and enough press people cross a threshold and the interest starts to take off on its own.
		I still don't see that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that can be done with what we're doing this morning.
		I mean, after all, to reveal all that has gone on behind the scenes at the White House level and with the CIA, I think ought to be enough solid fodder for any good investigative journalist to sink his teeth in quickly to this and get to the bottom of the story.
		I would imagine toward that end, press people, are going to be wanting to contact you, Dr. Greer.
		How do they do that?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, they can contact me through my website, and my webmaster will screen them and get them to me, or they may call me at 704-274-5671, and we will get back to them when we can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		704-274-5671.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		By the way, contact information for all of the groups that are involved in this process right now, or parts of this process, including CSETA and Stargate International and Operation Right to Know and Citizens Against USO Secrecy, Enterprise Mission, are on the Anagram video site in a number of pages.
		Fax numbers, phone numbers, email, or websites in some cases.
		So again, those who don't have the computer, hopefully we can give out a little bit more of that later on.
		I'd like to also mention something in the context of what you just said.
		Let's leave this to your listeners to some degree.
		Who out there listening to the show doesn't think, with all due respect to your venue art and obviously your slot in the media reality, but who out there doesn't think that this conversation that we're having tonight doesn't have every right and should be in the venue such as this week, on Sunday with George Will, or on Nightline?
		I cannot imagine any reason why it should not.
		If your listeners think that, maybe they ought to send a little fax into those programs and say, why aren't discussions like this taking place there?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly right.
		And they should be taking place.
		And I think that people like Webster Hubble should join in them.
		I think Dr. Mitchell could add a great deal of insight into it.
		And I think that some of these, the top secret witnesses who are willing to come forward should also be part of that discussion.
		The ones who are willing to stick their necks out, as it were, now, even outside of the congressional hearing process that we're recommending.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask all three of you, if there is amnesty given for those who would come forward but have not yet done so, how many more people out there do you all believe would come forward?
		I know all three of you are insiders.
		Dr. Mitchell, certainly you are.
		How many people, if there was an amnesty, would you think would come forward?
unidentified		Well, I'd like to hear Steve Greers on that because he's actively been keeping headcount, which is true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		That's true.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		We have about 150 identified now.
		And if an announcement like that took place where we could go to our larger network and intelligence networks, I've been made sort of an honorary member of a large association of retired intelligence officers, for example, even though I've never even been in the government.
		I'm sure that there would be hundreds.
		You would have to really then begin to triage from most important to least important witness testimony.
		I think there would be so many hundreds of people who would be willing to come forward.
		And I think that that is exactly what we need to be prepared to do because one of the things that I've assured these people, including chairman of committees that I've met with, is that if they will hold the hearing, that we will bring all the assets that we can to them to be fully vetted and investigated and to testify so that they will not be left sort of holding the bag with nothing in it.
		And I think that there are a number of people who have these sorts of contacts.
		Our pool is the largest, but I think that there are other people out there that we're working with and different organizations that know of these sorts of first-hand military and intelligence witnesses.
		And in fact, I'm sure there are some listening right now, and they should really contact me directly and personally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, I have a question for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How would you vet the important information regarding extraterrestrial presence versus that which is intermixed with valid national security interests?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that is one of the questions actually that we did discuss with the I discussed with the CI Director Woolsey.
		And certainly the existence of the subject, sort of confirmed encounters and landing cases can be discussed.
		General information about the energy systems can be discussed.
		But when you start getting into specifics, then I think you do have to go through a national security review of what types of technical information would be advisable as opposed to ill-advised to release to the public because of how it might be used without proper safeguards being in place.
		For example, you can't go down to your local hardware store and buy a nuclear trigger, nor should you be able to.
		But I think that there are many aspects of the phenomenon and of the history of it and the programs related to it that can be discussed.
		For example, you and I know that there are hydrogen bombs, but we can't go down and buy one or build one legally.
		So I think it's very appropriate that we can discuss the issue without revealing necessarily everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Doctor.
		Dr. Mitchell, Dr. Greer, and Stephen Bassett, hold on.
		We're going to be right back from the high desert.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Coast AM
unidentified		And now, back to the best of our bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here I am.
		Good morning.
		If you are just joining us, I'm sorry, you've missed a great deal.
		We have with us Stephen Bassett, the nation's only UFO lobbyist in Washington, D.C., Dr. Stephen Greer, Steve's Heddy's Dr. Stephen Greer, who has just absolutely laid on us this morning some incredible revelations, like a three-hour meeting with the director of the CIA,
		in which as he was presented with evidence by Dr. Greer, simply at many points, laid his head in his hands and said, oh my God, went away, took a look at what our own government knows, came back and said the records essentially are missing.
		He didn't say we don't know anything.
		He said the records are missing.
		There has been revelation of contacts at the very highest levels, apparently spurred on or at least begun at a point where Webster Hubble was asked by the president to find out what is known about UFOs.
		There were high-level contacts with people like the director of the CIA and many others.
		And so we will continue with all of this and Dr. Mitchell in a moment.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Mitchell in a moment.
unidentified		And now back to the best of Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		In a moment, back to Steve Bassett.
		I want to ask Dr. Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 astronaut Dr. Mitchell, very quickly, some incredible revelations, Doctor.
		A three-hour meeting with the director of the CIA, contacts with Tony Lake and Mr. Rockefeller.
		This is incredible news.
		Were you aware that this kind of high-level discussion was going on, Doctor?
unidentified		Yes, I've been aware of it for some time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've been aware of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you feel about disclosure of all of this now?
unidentified		Well, I'm totally in agreement with Mr. Bassett and Dr. Greer that it's time for this to bring.
		We're way past time for bringing this information to the public, acknowledging it, and entering into the sort of discussions at the highest levels of Congress and government to make this information available to the public.
		It's far past time for this.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Can I ask Dr. Mitchell a question, Art?
		Dr. Mitchell, the space program in some respects is probably the highest achievement of the human mind in our history.
		What do you think would be the level of impact on the space program as a whole if full basic disclosure and acknowledgement, without necessarily all the bells and whistles, but just fundamental basic disclosure and acknowledgement were to take place?
unidentified		Well, I think we would start to move space exploration from gee whist sort of to a serious effort.
		We are a part of the universe.
		We started to explore the universe.
		We are going to go there in due course.
		It's just a matter of time.
		And this would be a proper movement toward accepting generalized space exploration as just a part of the norm.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		More specifically, would it be appropriate to assume that funding would be available?
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		There might be a very rapid increase in interest in soil science and math on the part of our students.
unidentified		You know, there's only so much funding to do so many things.
		And how fast we do it is a matter of debate.
		How fast should we put resources to this as opposed to energy and effort into resolving some of the other issues that we have?
		But at least make it available, make it respectable, make it into the Total milieu of our times.
		It's an appropriate thing to be doing.
		The question of timing as to how much resources we put in and where we go and whom we contact and who's available to contact is quite a different matter than the timing of how fast we do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With regard to all of this, anybody can take this who wants it or who dares take it.
		There are a lot of things going on in our space program that we don't know about.
		There is a militarization of space that certainly is going on.
		The Russians recently offered the government of Malaysia to create a cyclone to take some of the horrible dust from the fires away.
		I mean, nobody knew that that kind of satellite existed, but apparently the Russians are claiming they have it.
		Obviously, we've got a lot of stuff we don't talk about, so there's a lot of valid national security stuff going on that might get in the way of full disclosure.
		Anybody want to comment?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		The question is, is it valid?
		And this is Stephen Greer with C City.
		One of my concerns, and a point I would make as follow-up to what Ed was saying, is that if we could utilize space for peaceful exploration as opposed to military exploitation, I think that there would be plenty of funds.
		For example, I met with a very senior investigator on the Senate Appropriations Committee, in fact their chief counsel, who told me about four years ago now that somewhere between $40 and $80 billion a year were being spent on ultra-secret black projects that they didn't really know where the hell it was going.
		And he confirmed to me that a lot of it was going into covert UFO type things, but that much of it also was going into other projects.
		They had no idea what it was.
		So my point would be that if we could as a people begin to look through at this whole question of space and extraterrestrials in a way that was not xenophobic or militaristic, that there would be ample funds without taking it from other programs to explore space, to develop the means for exploration of space and the utilization of space for peaceful purposes.
		And I think that that really must be a priority in the next century.
unidentified		This is Edmonton.
		I totally agree with what Stephen Greer is saying here.
		The idea of militarizing space is absolutely an absurd idea.
		Observation is appropriate.
		Intelligence from space is appropriate to help keep the peace.
		But we have utterly no business whatsoever as putting weapons in space.
		No business whatsoever of carrying on normal hostile type activities from the space platform.
		It's simply not appropriate.
		It's a thing of the past.
		It's an old way of thinking about our relationships with each other and our relationships among nations.
		Yes, the military wants to do it.
		It's a take the high ground sort of idea.
		And it's just passe.
		And we haven't come to accommodate that yet.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Old way of thinking, yes.
		One of the best ways to get rid of an old way of thinking is find a new way of thinking.
		And this business represents a clear path, not just for a few enlightened people, but for everyone.
unidentified		Once you start to see ourselves in a different perspective about the cosmos itself, our place in the universe itself, all of these ideas start to change, but we're still rooted in this competitive, warlike sort of approach to problems that's just no longer appropriate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, you said the idea of weapons in space is absurd, and I certainly agree with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unfortunately, however, would you agree they are there?
unidentified		Yes, I would.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have witnesses.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		I've interviewed a number of witnesses who have told me that SDI-type weapon systems and both land and space-based, Earth and space-based weapon systems, have been used to track and to target extraterrestrial vehicles as they approach the Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Track and target?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		And target and to destroy.
		And this is one of the real deep concerns that we have is that in the atmosphere of the type of secrecy that exists, you run the risk of certain covert actions getting out of control.
		I mean, it's happened before we learned about the sort of Iran-Contra and arms for all that kind of stuff.
		But there are larger issues going on where the same kind of dysfunction and lack of oversight can begin to get us in a great deal of trouble.
		This is why I think Congressman Dan Burton's committee on House Government Reform and Oversight is such an appropriate one for starters to hold a hearing on this, because there are aspects of this whole issue that clearly have escaped appropriate oversight and control and the constitutional checks and balances which really protect us from sliding down these rather dangerous, slippery slopes of military misadventures that can take place under the cover of extreme secrecy.
unidentified		I agree with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Dr. Mitchell, you're an astronaut.
		You went to the moon.
		There have been many, many astronauts, many of which participated in military missions.
		I seem to recall that a lot of the shuttle launches were simply said to be military, and that's all we learned about them.
		If there was a general amnesty, would it be your view that there would be some astronauts, Dr. Mitchell, who under that, and I'm using the word loosely, amnesty, would come forward?
unidentified		I'm not, I don't know.
		I can't say what individual of the modern astronauts, the shuttle astronauts, not asking for names.
		But I am not aware of any really weaponization of space issues that have gone with the shuttle.
		Now, there's an appropriate military activity here.
		Oversight, navigation, communications, to me are all appropriate military type activities.
		The real issue here is active weaponry in space.
		And that is forbidden by treaty, number one.
		Number two, the fact that we start, if there have been shots taken at extra-tracks to vehicles, that's totally inappropriate.
		There's utterly no evidence here that there's hostile activity should be going on.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		There is something eerie about the possibility, I'm speculating here, that you have a weapon in space that might be shooting at vehicles which we've been tracking for so many years with no clear, what I would call overly warlike intent.
		At the same time, the masses of the population down below, kind of oblivious to all of this, are crowding in to see movies like Starship Troopers and Independence Day.
		Right off, I mean, but Independence Day had some merit.
		Starship Troopers is right off the edge.
		It's beyond my comprehension, but yet the visceral message is very clear, and it troubles me because these people really knew.
		In other words, if these people walk into that theater knowing the ETA hypothesis is valid, knowing the truth, understanding where the government is and all this, and feeling comfortable about that, I could see them watching that movie.
		It's escapism.
		But given their level of ignorance, you go into that kind of stuff, and I don't see it taking us anywhere we want to go.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		There's a very dangerous psychological preconditioning going on that somehow prepares people to accept the extension of the paradigm of conflict which we have had with each other into space.
		And I think that's one of the reasons why here we are at the millennium, that as a people we need to stand up and begin to consciously contemplate what will be our future, not only on Earth, but in the cosmos.
		And I think we need to choose one that's peaceful, not one that is violent and secretive and in this way very dangerous.
unidentified		This is exactly the message I've been talking about for about 25 years, Stephen.
		We must shift that idea.
		And it's a subtle, subtle conditioning that's going on to prepare us for the idea that we do carry this warlike activity into space, and it's totally inappropriate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Greer, you said something that stood my hair up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said that we have trucked and targeted and, in fact, shot at these vehicles.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fairly warlike.
		That says an awful lot, if true, about the nature of the visitation or does it?
		Does it simply say that we don't know what we're dealing with?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		No, no, what it means is that often the policy has been that the engagement has, if it's been in our airspace or in certain areas, to engage them as if they were hostile enemy objects.
		And I think that's one of the dangers.
		And one of the witnesses, I know Steve Bassett and Dr. Mitchell both heard this witness stand up and talk to members of Congress in this briefing that we conducted in April, where he was in the control room at Atlantic Command when an admiral gave the order to scramble jets and other assets off both land and sea to pursue a 300-foot diameter disk that was in broad daylight and to force it down and shoot it down if necessary.
		That order was given.
		Hotline into the Kremlin had confirmed it was neither Russian nor U.S. This witness was top secret SCI, and I have others like him.
		And my point here is that these sorts of activities endanger the national security and I think endanger world security.
		And this is why it is a very appropriate thing for members of Congress to hear about.
		I want to emphasize before we run out of time here that the members of these, the chairman of the committees that are on our website need to be called and written immediately because they have just received a huge briefing packet.
		There are people on all these committees that are interested in the subject.
		They are listed in rank order from 1 through 15.
		If a listener out there can only write or call three of them, do the first three because those are the three most important.
		If they can do five, do the top five, et cetera.
		But we want people to have a massive outpouring.
		On this issue at this time, I think that the people listening, the millions of people listening that need to know that their action can make a difference.
		They need to find out, get on our website, find out the names of these committees and their chairpeople, and ask these chairpeople to hold open hearings so these top-secret military witnesses can testify.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Greer, not everybody has a computer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For those who do not, what course of action?
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		Well, that is a good question.
		We don't have the, what they can do is find someone who has it and get it printed and what have you.
		I don't have the ability to respond to people one by one, but I think that most people now certainly know folks who can get on our website and get this list.
		And by the way, we have a sample letter that can be written.
		We have their addresses and their phone numbers on this website.
		So we've made it very user-friendly for people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and people can go to friends or they can go to libraries now which have computers and go to my website, which is linked to yours, again, www.artbell.com, and pursue that information.
		It will be there for you.
		We will leave those links up.
unidentified		And Art, let's make another point.
		This is a golden opportunity with a major issue for the people to show that government works, that democracy works, and do it.
		Because if we don't do it here, I don't know where we're ever going to be able to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a pretty dire statement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, do you feel that our representative democracy is in danger if we don't do something?
unidentified		Yes, I think our representative democracy is in danger anyhow.
		I think events are moving so fast, so very rapidly, that no one is really on top of it.
		And if we don't get the people mobilized here to demand that we get to the bottom of these issues that we're talking about today, we're not going to have an opportunity forever.
		This is a key issue that we're talking about.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		It is like a dysfunctional family, for those people out there that know about that.
		John Bradshaw writes about this a great deal.
		The typical model is that you've got the deep, dark secret in the family.
		Usually the parents keep it, and it just sits there and festers and it twists and skews the relationships between all the parties, and they all end up becoming just not very functional people.
		And then they go off and form another dysfunctional family.
		Well, this is a giant secret.
		It's like a big mass neutron star.
		It's sitting at the core of the government, and it's warping the way we think about the government, the way we deal with it, and it's altering our relationship, and it's making it dysfunctional.
unidentified		That's exactly right.
dr steven greer ▲ ● ▼		But I also want to emphasize, Steve, the very important positive outcomes of this, the increased trust in government that could grow from this, the eventual elaboration of advanced non-polluting technological systems which could be put to closely monitored peaceful purposes.
		You know, we are a civilization which presently, given the types of energy systems we use, is terminal.
		We do not have a sustainable civilization in any way, shape, or form.
		And the decay of the ecosystem is exponentially increasing at the same time that we have resource depletion occurring.
		I think those are trends which can be reversed.
		But it's going to take the people demanding that these gifts which we have, that exist, wondrous, I think, gifts that exist in nature that can be used for peaceful purposes be given back to humanity.
		And, you know, Ben Rich, who was, I know, Ed Mitchell, you must have known the name Ben Rich.
		He was head of Lockheed Skunk Works.
		And before he died, he gave a talk.
		And after the talk, about 15 members of the audience were around him, including a member of the CSETI Project Starlight team, an IBM executive named Jan Harzan.
		And Ben Rich turned to this group and said, you know, we already have the means to travel among the stars, but that technology is locked up in ultra-secret black projects, and it would take an act of God to get them released to benefit humanity.
		Now, he died a couple months after he made that statement.
		But there were 15 witnesses to Ben Rich, head of Lockheed Skunk Works, saying this.
		So, you know, these are really big issues.
		They have to deal with not just are we alone in the universe, but can we become a peaceful member of the universal community and also evolve into a civilization that is sustainable?
unidentified		That's exactly the positive side of what we were saying.
		As long as we remain dysfunctional in this way, we'll never realize that potential, Stephen.
		Right.
		And that's exactly what we're talking about.
		There is the potential to do it correctly.
		There is a potential to become functional and sustainable again, where you're absolutely correct in saying we're not on a sustainable path.
		This cancer, among others, is growing in our midst, and it must be properly set straight at this point.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		I think you can even drop it down to the level of the street for those people out there that don't have the penchant for abstract discussion.
		People out there trying to make ends meet.
		The fact is that every dollar we spend in a government has a certain cost of effectiveness.
		In other words, it gets run through the system.
		It does a certain amount of stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Time warning, gentlemen.
		We're about out of time.
		It's the first time I've heard the word cancer used, I think, since Watergate.
		So, Dr. Greer, I'm going to say thanks a million.
		Thank you for standing so tall.
		And Dr. Mitchell, thank you as well.
		You both are real soldiers to get up at this time of the morning and do all of this.
		And I can only hope that the path we're on will be corrected because, unfortunately, we are not now on a path that would have us admitted to some greater peaceful cosmos, if that's what it is really out there.
		So, gentlemen, thank you.
unidentified		And thank you for the opportunity, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		When we come back, we're going to not shift gears.
		We are going to continue with the program, and we're going to be talking with a criminal defense attorney, Peter A. Gerston, and Robert O. Dean, who is a UFO researcher and analyst, and we will be analyzing some of what you have just heard.
		So everybody stand by for that.
		It's quite a night.
		Keep a notebook out.
		Take notes.
		And remember, my website, www.artbell.com.
unidentified		From the Kingdom of Nive, across the country, around the world, and throughout the universe, this is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell on the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, on behalf of Dr. Greer, I would like to mention there is an 80-page document that he regards highly that is available to only some of you.
		He's got a few of these left.
		And if you are interested in this incredible documentation Dr. Greer has, again, head up to my website, link over to the CSETI website, and you will see the information there.
		And Dr. Greer asked me to mention that.
		Now, in 1977, New York criminal defense attorney Peter A. Gerston brought suit in a U.S. district court on behalf of Ground Saucer Watch against the CIA pursuant to the FOIA lawsuit.
		The CIA in 1979 released over 900 pages of documents relating to the UFO phenomena.
		They, however, refused to release 57 documents claiming national security considerations.
		On June 24, 1980, Gersten brought suit against the National Security Agency on behalf of his own recently formed organization, Citizens Against UFO Secrecy, of which he is still director for 135 UFO-related documents.
		On November 18, 1980, based upon an NSA top secret affidavit, the court dismissed the lawsuit, saying the continued need for secrecy far outweighed the public's right to know.
		Gersten, now practicing law in Arizona, is working on three new projects.
		One, an FOIA lawsuit against the Army based on Lieutenant Colonel retired Philip Corso's book, The Day After Roswell.
		Two, Destination Moon, a privately funded civilian rocket launch to the moon to verify the existence of artificial structures.
		And three, healing your inner alien, a workshop in Sedona, Arizona in February to teach us and prepare us for the new millennium.
		Also coming now, Robert O'Dean, who has been engaged in the field of UFO research for the last 40 years, he began this research on active duty in the U.S. Army, where he served for 27 years.
		He retired as a command sergeant major from the Army in 1976 as a highly decorated combat veteran after having served as an infantry unit commander in combat in Korea and Vietnam.
		He also served in intelligent field operations in Laos, Cambodia, and North Vietnam.
		Additionally, from 1963 to 1997, he served at Supreme Headquarters, Allied Powers Europe, the military arm of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, or NATO, as an intelligence analyst with a cosmic top secret clearance.
		While on that assignment, he was a master sergeant with a cosmic top secret clearance.
		He worked in the operations division, was a member of the Inter-Command Staff, thereby working with and seeing the Saucer, a Supreme Allied Commander of Europe, almost every day.
		For 14 years, Dean worked with and for FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Administration.
		I'm sure that'll get your attention.
		Retired as an emergency services manager from the Sheriff's Department, Robert is the former Arizona State Assistant Director and the former County Session Director for Mutual UFO Network, or MUFON.
		He continues now, by the way, as a MOFON member at large.
		He is also a member of the Center for UFO Studies, as well as a member of the Ancient Astronauts Society.
		He was formerly a member of the board of directors of the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization for 12 years.
		So what you are about to hear is a sort of summation and then comments from these gentlemen on what's been revealed over the last several hours.
		First, let us return to Stephen Bassett in Washington.
		Stephen.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
		Hi.
		Before I toss a question out to my good friends Bob Dean and Peter Gerston, I thought I'd like to refocus your audience on the initiatives and try to draw a little picture for them here.
		We have three initiatives going.
		The petition drive initiated by Stargate is the attempt to get the million signatures.
		That can be obtained by coming to your site, Art, and then going on to Stargate International.
		There's also a petition downloadable at MSN's UFO Forum, which is not linked at this time.
		And then Anagram Video has put the petition up on 27 websites, its own and it's all of its distributors.
		You can get to that site through your art.
		And the second issue is, of course, the congressional hearings.
		And I think we've discussed that heavily.
		You can get the committee contact information at the CSETI site at this point.
		And then the third is the statement of purpose and letter to the President and Congress, which is destined for the Washington Post full-page ad once we obtain appropriate signatures.
		That is going to be available, if not now, very shortly, on the Anagram video site, which again you can link to off of Art Bell's site.
		And it is something that I invite your listeners to read.
		We are interested in their comments.
		But some other things too, but first, let me say this.
		The groups that are essentially shepherding this statement, an ad forward, are on this ad.
		But I want to mention now, we can get a full picture of this.
		CSETI, of course, we've been discussing at length tonight.
		Stargate International, we're going to hear much more of that from Bob tonight.
		Operation Right to Know, the director of that is Mary Kriffett out of Schaumburg, Illinois.
		They've done a lot of direct demonstrations within Washington itself.
		Enterprise Mission, of course you're familiar with that.
		Citizens Against UFO Secrecy, founded many, many years ago by a number of people, including Peter.
		And we're going to add to that picture here, effective tomorrow, Skywatch International.
		These groups have a political thread to them, but there's a commonality of purpose.
		And these are organizations worth supporting.
		Some of them are nonprofits, some of them are proprietorship, but in general, if you're comfortable with what they're trying to do, consider supporting them, both by joining, whatever membership they may have, and if you're motivated sufficiently, you may want to consider donations.
		Later in the show, we might be able to have some time to give out some addresses that deal with that.
		Obviously, if you have web capability, you can get that information directly from a site.
		Now, with respect to this ad, several things are going to happen.
		But the principal one is this.
		This is not a petition.
		This is a statement.
		And we are looking for signatures from individuals around this nation who have had some success, who are prominent, who are certainly well up in whatever career they have chosen, but are supportive of this disclosure process and are willing to sign this statement.
		If anyone knows of someone like that, refer it to them.
		If someone is someone like that and you want to be signatore, it's a very simple process.
		To be signatory to this statement, you must send by fax to Paradigm Research Group a letterhead with a simple statement that you wish to be signatore, signed, fax it in, it'll be confirmed back by phone, and your signature will go into the pool.
		The strongest 80 signatures will be on the main page that will go into the advertisement.
		Paradigm Research Group's FAX is in Maryland 301-564-4066.
		When sufficient signatures have been obtained to give the ad that necessary gravitas it has to have, we are going to seek a single funder, a single individual with both the money, the wisdom, and the clarity to understand what's important here, who will fund dollar for dollar this ad in the Washington Post.
		It's going to cost $21,000.
		We're going to accept a $21,000 check.
		There will be no waste, no going out for pizza.
		It's going to be a straight deal.
		The person can then receive credit for it in the ad itself, or they can remain anonymous.
		And that's the process.
		We hope to have this ad in place before the State of the Union address on the 27th of January.
		After it appears, it's going to be reprinted in gloss fashion with the Post banner, and it's going to be distributed to the entire House and Senate.
		It's also going to be sent out a national press release, and then, of course, it's going to continue to spread throughout the net for people simply to peruse it and make their comments and follow some of its issues as they see fit.
		These are the three initiatives.
		These are the groups involved.
		Others are more than welcome to join us.
		And then there's some other things, which we're going to get into a little later.
		One that's coming up on the 13th of January regarding the announcement of the first person to strive for high office, state or national, and make the UFO issue a direct, open, and major portion of their campaign.
		And we're going to be announcing that in just a little bit.
		Press release went out on the 1st of January, but for the general public, I think you're going to be hearing it tonight.
		Having wasted all that time, I'd like to ask both Peter and Bob what their thoughts are about what transpired on this show so far.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's just make it a good open discussion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gentlemen, welcome to the program.
unidentified		It's a pleasure here, Art.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
unidentified		And it's also a pleasure being on the same program with Bob Dean.
unidentified		I don't think that I could have picked a better person that I would have liked to be on for the first time.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you, Peter.
		I have a great admiration for you too, my friend.
		You're an old warrior.
unidentified		It's the Bob and Peter show now.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, both of you gentlemen had an opportunity to hear Dr. Greer and, of course, Dr. Mitchell and before them all, Richard Oakland.
		What's your take on what you heard?
unidentified		Who are you addressing that to?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anybody who wants to grab it?
unidentified		Well, I've been sitting here patiently for the last five hours listening to this and taking notes.
		I must have about seven hours of notes right in front of me.
		I feel like I'm in court ready to sum up on a murder case.
		So if I just have a couple of minutes.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		Fire.
unidentified		Now, I have great respect for Stephen Bassett, and I admire his enthusiasm, his aggressiveness, and it's a breath of fresh air, and I welcome it.
		But unfortunately, I haven't heard anything new over the last, how many hours, three, four hours.
		I've been involved with the UFO controversy to the 70s.
		I brought two lawsuits, and I've heard this since the 70s.
		You cannot work within the government that has created the secrecy.
		You cannot ask Congress to release information that is beyond their understanding, beyond their need to know.
		We've heard that there are two governments, a secret government and the elected government.
		So why petition the elected government?
		It's the secret government we have to look to.
		I think we're losing track of the big picture.
		What I've heard, let me just ask Stephen.
		Steve, I've listened to Dr. Greer and I admire his work.
		But what I heard this evening was that Dr. Greer is in contact with ETs or interdimensional beings or some other form of intelligence.
		I've heard that he has over 150 people, military officials, waiting to come forward with information.
		I've been hearing this the last year.
		I hear that he briefed for the first time tonight the director of the CIA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's new.
unidentified		Okay, that is new.
		But the story is not that he had this meeting.
		The story is that the director of the CIA didn't even have access to this information.
		He was told the records were lost.
		He didn't have the need to know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the story.
unidentified		Stephen Greer briefed him.
		I even heard, and I don't know if this is accurate or not, Stephen Greer was instrumental in causing the sightings in Phoenix on March 13th.
		He was present.
		He brought them forth.
		So I've been listening to this, and it's interesting because what do you want to learn from the government?
		We're looking to Stephen Greer to tell them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Peter, it is interesting that you, who has been so pursuing our elected government with FOIA lawsuits, would take the position that it's useless to do so.
unidentified		In the 70s and 80s, that was the thing to do.
		We've gone past that.
		I can prove in a court of law, beyond a reasonable doubt, that we are in contact with another form of intelligence.
		People are in contact with another form of intelligence now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can prove that.
unidentified		I can prove it in court.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you're a criminal defense attorney.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you were to set about proving that in court, how would you do it?
unidentified		You know what?
		I would do it with expert testimony.
		I would do it with physical evidence, expert testimony, pictures, exhibits, as I would prove any other case.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		Peter, how can we get a hearing in a court if we can't get a hearing in a congressional overtime?
unidentified		Because I have access through Lieutenant Colonel Corso to court.
		I finally have what I need to get past the summary judgment motion.
		The last two cases in 1780 were dismissed on a summary judgment motion because there was no triable issues.
		The agencies came forward and said, we searched, this is what we found.
		We gave you what we could.
		The others classified.
		There is no more issue.
		The court in both those cases dismissed the lawsuit because there was no triable issue.
		In this particular case, they're not going to find any documents pursuant to my request for the search.
		They're going to tell me that they searched X, Y, and Z and they can't find the documents.
		They're then going to, once I file the lawsuit in court, they will then move for summary judgment again saying there's no triable issue.
		Here's where we searched, submitting notarized affidavits, sworn affidavits.
		There is no issue.
		There are no documents.
		At that point, I bring forward Corso, who is an eyewitness, first-hand testimony, enough to convict somebody in a court of law of a crime, who says that he saw alien bodies and he saw eyewitness autopsy reports.
		That's enough to create a triable issue.
		Once I get past that, I'm entitled to discovery.
		I can then go into court and put in interrogatories, examine under oath the Army officials who are supposed to have done this search.
		I could make this a cause celebrity.
		I can get the public's attention.
		Better than, now, if petitioning Congress for open hearings, and of course they're not going to be open, they're going to be open until all of a sudden the word classification, top secret, is mentioned, and then it's going to go, you know, if congressional hearings are good to focus public attention, fine, I'm all for that.
		If public hearings are to get information or to get knowledge about what's going on, we've come past the UFO, this object.
		We are now past that.
		We are in contact with interdimensional beings.
		I can prove that.
		The crop circles are the best evidence.
		The resources are here.
		The technology is here to go to the moon.
		We don't have to rely on the government.
		We're past that.
		We have the information, the resources, the technology to determine what's going on in this planet.
		Once we stop relying on the government to supply us, it's the lazy man's app.
		You know, we don't have to do anything.
		We want the government to tell us.
		We have the resources to find out ourselves.
		We can go to the moon.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		Peter, if I can get a word in Edgewise.
unidentified		Sure.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Robert O'Dean, right?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Robert, I'm afraid we're at a breakpoint.
		I think that Peter got out what he wanted, and indeed it's a big challenge.
		When we come back, we will pick up on exactly this point.
		A man who has brought so many lawsuits is tired of it.
		I'm Mark Bellin.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast AM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back to my guests now.
		And my guests are a New York criminal defense attorney named Peter Gerston and Robert O. Dean, who is a UFO researcher and analyst.
		And we're getting reaction to what has been aired.
		I would only say in response to your blast, Mr. Gerston, that there was new information, and that new information certainly was the three-hour meeting held with the director of the CIA and all of the high-level contacts that the American public at the White House had no idea had taken place.
		That much was new.
unidentified		I agree.
		That is definitely new.
		But is it a disclosure?
		We should know about this when it happens.
		Stephen Greer should not be involved in secrecy.
		If I knew what Stephen Greer knows, maybe I wouldn't even have to go to the government.
		Stephen Greer, what does Stephen Greer want from the government?
		Why does he want there to be congressional hearings?
		He knows more than the government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it sounds to me like you have given up on the government, you who have filed so many FOIA requests.
		And an FOIA request is something that our own government has allowed that I take it you have no faith in.
		In other words, citizens can file a request for information that previously has been filed away as secret in one way or another, and they try and declassify as much of it as possible.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		Huck, can I slip in here for you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You absolutely may.
		I just wanted to clear up what an FOIA request was.
		Now, Robert O'Dean.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		I have a great respect for Peter's opinion, and his legal opinion I would have to turn to.
		But I will not give up on the constitutional system or the American people.
		And one of the things that I have believed for a long time is that if the American people can become informed Of what the hell's going on, then they themselves can act through their elected representatives and put this in the back in the constitutional process where it should have been in the first place, and we might save the Constitution.
		As it is right now, the average American is totally unaware of the seriousness of this crisis.
		And the government, as we know it, are not the policymakers on this damn thing.
		Who is?
		Who's behind the deceit and deception?
		I believe that the system can be made to work, Peter, and I believe that if the people can become informed, that they themselves can bring the pressure upon the Congress to do something.
		And I do believe congressional hearings are called for.
		We're facing probably the most serious threat we've faced probably in the last 200 years.
		And the American people simply don't know.
		And we've got to do it.
		I've been trying this through what I call the grassroots process.
		And I've been speaking out quite continually here for now a couple of years.
		And I find that the people respond well to what I've had to say.
		They're dying to know more about this.
		They really are hungry for the truth.
		So I will not give up on the system.
		I think it will work if we can make it work.
		And we've got to get the people involved.
		And that's why I speak out on this thing.
unidentified		There's a much bigger picture than what we're talking about.
		We have to refocus on what's going on on this planet at this particular time.
		UFOs, the UFO phenomena, are just one piece of this puzzle that we have to solve.
		There's much more.
		Peter, you're going to have congressional hearings, open UFOs.
		What about the abductions?
		What about the cattle mutilations?
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		Within an open hearing, you see you can bring all of it in.
unidentified		You don't really think these hearings would remain open.
		As soon as anything that involves classified material, everything has to.
		We're talking about FAC-engineered, reverse engineered technology.
		Anything that touches on classification has to go behind closed doors.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know what your point is, but I believe that we can work.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		I will not give up on it.
unidentified		Okay, but second of all, you do not need amnesty.
		It's a real non-issue.
		In other words, COSO is evidence of the fact that you can come forward and say whatever you want and not be prosecuted.
		I don't know why these people are hiding behind the issue of amnesty.
		Come forward.
		I will represent them pro bono, free.
		The government will not prosecute them because then they have to say that what the information is, is true.
		They have to vouch for the credibility of the witnesses.
		They have to say that the information is genuine.
		It violates national security.
		They will not say that.
		They will allow whatever has to be said to be said and allow the UFO community to tear it apart.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		Can you guarantee these people a hearing in an open court?
unidentified		Yeah, if they come forward, I'll put in a Freedom of Information Act request based on what they saw from eyewitness testimony, personally saw.
		We'll go through the same process we go through with Corso.
		Corso.
		Now, from the Kingdom of Nine, more Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
		Here again is Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a moment, Mr. Griston.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You at first said you were giving up on FOIA requests.
unidentified		No, I wasn't saying I was giving up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you said that, I mean, in what I read, the introduction I read of you, it indicated that you made several of those requests and got back certain documents and then got back, did not get back others that were classified simply and not given to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, what makes you think that would change?
unidentified		No, the strategy has changed.
		I am getting nothing from the government, as would Bob and Steve, get nothing from Congress.
		What I get, and that's the only thing we can get, is public attention.
		I can focus attention on the lawsuit.
		As we see, it's not as extravagant as the O.J. case, but that case is going to get attention.
		And then, once we get attention, we can talk about what's really going on on the planet now, what these UFOs are part of.
		What do we consider?
		What secret government is a part of?
		Let me tell you, I'll say this.
		If there are aliens present on this planet, extraterrestrials, then they are in control.
		There is no doubt in my mind about that.
		If they exist, they're abducting.
		So this fact that we don't see hostility, we shouldn't shoot them down.
		They're abducting people.
		That's the reports.
		And the other reports I hear, there is a treaty between the ETs and this government that has been violated by the ETs.
		So if you believe that they're ETs, then you might as well believe the whole scenario because that's what I hear.
		You see that?
		You think they're an alien?
		I know I reflected on you on your show.
		We have an alien as a prisoner of war.
		Is that what we're talking about?
		Well, is that going to come out in congressional hearings?
		Is that what you're telling me?
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		$10 billion a year, Peter.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		We're spending black budget money with no oversight, no accountability.
unidentified		We can go to the moon.
		We can see if there's artificial artifacts as Richard Hoagland so eloquently and articulately says.
		We can prove that.
		We don't have to rely on the government to tell us.
		We can go out and talk to the people that are being contacted.
		Come to Sedona, Arizona.
		See what's going on with these people.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		Do you really believe the aliens may be in control of this whole matter?
unidentified		Well, why don't they come forward then?
		They have to be in control.
		Maybe the secret government, if there are aliens, if they're ETs rather than interdimensional beings, then they have to control the situation.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		I can tell you, Peter, there are aliens and there are interdimensional beings, and we've known that for almost 50 years.
unidentified		Okay, but they're contacting the people.
		The crop circles, did you read Doug Ruby's book, The Gift?
		It's a two-dimensional blueprint for a three-dimensional starship.
		The movie Contact told us that we are getting messages concerning the building of this craft, but Sagan disguised it as SETI messages.
		The crop circles are exactly those messages.
		People are receiving direct messages.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		People in the military have had personal contact with extraterrestrials, Peter.
unidentified		Okay, but we don't have To rely on the government.
		Let's take responsibility.
		In other words, when we're ready for contact, the signpost, the measure is the fact that we take our power back from the government and determine what is going on.
		We're not relying on anybody else.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		You don't think we can demand open hearings from Congress and get the first base on that?
unidentified		Hey, listen, open hearings have been going on for the last 20, 30 years, right?
		All of a sudden, open hearings?
		No.
		You're talking about classified information.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		It's not going to remain open.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		We're talking about national security, and whose security are we talking about here?
unidentified		National security.
		Let me tell you, Congress is not going to be allowed to talk about national security hearings issues in front of the press.
		They're not going to be able to do it.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Who wouldn't step in here if I could?
		Carlos, let me step in for a second.
		What intrigues me about this discussion is there's several things that intrigue me.
		The first one is this.
		Everyone brings into this field their own particular background, and they're going to have to deal with the field in the basis of where they're coming from.
		And, of course, this is what paradigm is all about.
		Reviewing the world and then re-changing it, always again from a single perspective.
		Peter, of course, comes from a background of law, and particularly criminal law, which is fundamentally an adversarial process in which you take on an adversary.
		And as a result, he's approaching it that way.
		He's using that kind of terminology.
		Bobby, on the other hand, has kind of worked with the government.
		He's been there.
		He's been in the military.
		He has a lot of affection for the military.
		He served well, and I think he enjoyed his service.
		So he wants to see a bridge occur in which we're really kind of partnering our way to this paradigm.
		So what you have are two different life approaches to the same issue.
		But what's more important, the point I'd like to make is this.
		These kinds of discussions are what I call pre-paradigm analysis, meaning that intelligent people, not a few, but thousands, and even institutions and think tanks, sitting around and discussing these things, this pre-paradigm analysis of how we take this and what is going to work, what's not going to work, what may be going on, so that as we move through disclosure, we have a platform from which to build.
		Unfortunately, since the media is hard to describe the media, they're virtually, it's a joke to them.
		Academia is frozen solid with silence, and the government, of course, is playing a game.
		There is no pre-paradigm analysis.
		We're building up to the big surprise.
		This is a big mistake.
		I love this kind of talk.
		I love to see it.
		We need to make sure that it's not.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		It's based on reality, Stephen, that the media is not a free media in this country any longer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		There's a certain amount of that, too.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		But art, we know, is free and wild woolly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, everybody should monitor it carefully for a nuclear device going off in Peruvia.
		Listen, Peter, I'm not sure that I disagree with you.
		I may agree with you.
		I think that we are not going to know what they don't want us to know, period.
unidentified		Definitely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so I kind of generally agree with you.
		And how do you want to pursue this?
		How do you want to move from here?
unidentified		Well, we're going to go into court, and I would like to go to the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a preference for the order?
unidentified		Well, we're going to go into court first.
		The moon's going to take at least a year.
		That's what I hear.
		The moon, to go to the moon, a civilian rocket to the moon, the first civilian launch, privately funded rocket to the moon, that in and of itself is a major event.
		When we couple it with the theme of verifying the artificial artifacts on the moon, the artificial structures, the two together just make a great pair.
		In order to do that, that takes $12 million.
		Not much.
		Movies take less than $12 million to make.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		How much, Peter?
unidentified		$12 million.
		Translunar Research, who I believe has been on Art's show in the past, have been involved over the last few months with Dick Rutan's balloon flight, so they haven't been able to give this project the necessary time and attention.
		But $12 million.
		What we need is the $20,000 that you're talking about placing the ad to fund a video, a promo video, similar to the type of show and tell she had on Contact to raise money.
		The $20,000 will get us the video.
		We can duplicate the video.
		We can pass it among all the so-called armchair enthusiasts who listen to the program, who say fine, might sign a petition.
		The time has come to put their money where their mouth is.
		In other words, if they believe that we have a right to know, we don't have to rely on the government.
		Let's find out ourselves.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Technically, he's absolutely right.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Bill Gates could go to the moon.
unidentified		Exactly.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		That's what many people wish he would, but he could go to the moon just out of the money he spends on a utility bill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to clear something up.
		Peter, you sort of took a shot, I thought, at Stephen Greer.
		So let's hear it.
		You believe he knows a lot that he's not saying?
unidentified		Well, of course.
		You agreed to that.
		He told us about this briefing of the CIA director.
		I'd like to get a tape.
		If that was taped, I'd like to get a tape.
		I'd like to see what he gave to the CIA director.
		I'd like to see what the CIA director had.
		As a matter of fact, listening to Stephen, I was thinking, I'm going to put in an FOIA request to the CIA for that meeting, for the minutes of that meeting, for the conversation, for anything.
		I want to see what's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think you would get back the minutes of that meeting, any notes taken, or do you think you would get back a statement saying national security?
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Sorry.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
unidentified		Then we can maybe go into court.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		That was a national meeting in the first place, Peter.
unidentified		Let me ask you.
		Stephen goes into the CIA director's office, and from what he tells the CIA director, it's classified national security.
		You hear what you're saying?
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		This was in a private home, Peter.
unidentified		No, no, I'm secure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't matter where.
unidentified		It doesn't matter where.
unidentified		Exactly right.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		He's raising a very, very interesting point that I have not discussed before, but he's raised it, and I want Bob's reaction to my comment here.
		Bob, I definitely want you to react to this.
		We talk about the dysfunctional family.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		You have a government that's drenched in secrecy.
		It's like a narcotic.
		If it moves, draft it, and if it doesn't move, classify it.
		Now, along comes this movement to try to get to the truth.
		Well, before you know it, we're finding ourselves working like the government.
		We want to have meetings.
		We want to move forward, so we have to have these in secret.
		We can't discuss them.
		We have to have confidentiality.
		We have to move within certain parameters.
		Before you know it, we're starting to act like the government.
		So it's like we're being warped.
		We'd like to just get in there, get it over with, and get it done.
		And so they're almost like co-opting us in a sense.
		It's hard not to do that.
		Obviously, if you don't meet with anybody, you don't feel like you're going anywhere.
		And so you're trying to partner with them, but you're sort of on their terms initially, and their terms, as we all know, is like, hey, basically, it's secret.
		Start from secrecy, and then maybe we'll open up.
		And so, Stephen, yes, he's had to actually operate to some degree like an operative.
		And I don't think he doesn't want to do that.
		Now, Peter would say, look, once you get co-opted like that, you've already gone down that road.
		You might as well just join the intelligence service and be one of them.
unidentified		That's what it sounded like when I listened to the program earlier.
		Almost you to a certain degree, Stephen, to be honest.
		I was saying, where is Stephen coming from in all this?
		He's nearly too intelligent to devote all his resources on what I would consider a waste of time, and I don't understand why he really doesn't see it.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Well, we can discuss that because you're going to be around for the fifth hour.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Bob, what do you think about my comment about the fact that the UFO committee was kind of forced to almost play the government's game if it wanted to have any kind of dialogue or make any progress?
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		Well, the question that I come up with again, Stephen, is who the hell is holding the cords here?
		Who's pulling the strings here?
		We talk about the government.
		Peter says that we're not going to know anything unless they let us know.
		Who the hell are they?
		We're not talking about Congress.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Peter would say we don't know who they are.
unidentified		We don't know.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		It's a waste of time.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		No, we don't have to try to find out who they are.
unidentified		I call them the Cosmic Circle in my story, in my book, in my Internet serial.
		You know, that's a good metaphor for this secret government, this secret society that's been over.
		According to you, Stephen, they've been around since the Sumerians, so to speak.
		So you don't think that the President of the United States is going to be privy, a person that's elected or an appointed head of an agency or a congressman, a senator for two years for six?
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Give me a break.
unidentified		You know, these are the people, politicians, who you offer them a certain amount of money, they'll look the other way.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		Your point is well made, but I refuse to give up on the constitutional system and the people.
		I don't think we've really got them activated yet.
		I don't think we've informed them enough to get them angry enough to raise a little hell with their elected representatives.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a good point, Bob.
		Essentially, here's the logic train.
		Peter is saying that there are people in the government that don't want us to know, and since they don't want us to know, we're not going to know.
		So the actions that we take may be pointless.
		My point is, the way you win is you get them to want you to know.
unidentified		No, that's not going to be a good thing.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		You get them to that point.
unidentified		You want to take responsibility.
		The way you win is to take responsibility and not rely on the government.
		You know, it's an excuse.
		We take responsibility.
		We organize the people.
		We have strike forces.
		We have a public relations department.
		We have whatever it takes, a speakers bureau.
		And you go out and you educate the people with the best evidence.
		We don't have to go back to 1940, 50, 60, 70.
		What's going on in the UFO phenomena field is going on right now.
		Matter of fact, it's going on more extensively.
		You know, this phenomenon doesn't contact certain people in government.
		They don't say, well, we're going to contact X, Y, and Z. They contact all the people directly, directly and personally, or they do it indirectly by drawing pictures on the planet that we refer to as crop circles.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Interesting point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Peter, I want you to hold on for a second.
		And Stephen Bassett, hold on for a second.
		Robert O'Dean is going to be leaving us, but I'll tell you what.
		Robert, I am going to be in contact with you in the next day or so, and we're going to set up and do an entire program.
		How would that be?
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		I would love that very much.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I'm sorry, Bob.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		Don't apologize, Peter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No need to.
		And, Peter, the same goes for you, but you're going to be with us next hour.
		All right, everybody stay in place.
		And Robert O'Deen, thank you, and we'll be talking to you in a couple of days.
robert o dean ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		That's it, folks, for this hour.
		We will continue in some markets.
		As a matter of fact, Jim Mars, author of The Alien Agenda, will be joining us.
		Along with Peter Gerston and Stephen Bassett, I'm Art Bell from The High Desert.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		Stay tuned for more of the Best of Art Bell right after a word from your local sponsors.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		This is a wonderful presentation of Coast to Coast AM from the Kingdom of Nine, across the country, around the world, and throughout the universe, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Obviously, Jim Morris, who has been listening to the program, would have hung up his phone.
		It is ringing busy.
		The static on the line was so bad, it eventually got to the point during the break that we could not hear Jim Morris.
		And I believe that the telephone line he was on has been destroyed.
		There are storms going on at his location, I believe, Area Code 940.
		Stephen Bassett, if you're there, is that Florida?
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		You mean where I'm at?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wouldn't know where Jim Morris is.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		He is deep in the heart of Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Texas, huh?
		Well, wherever it is, his line finally went belly up when we heard that totally untenable amount of static.
		And it's not busy because he's sitting there.
		It's busy because it is no longer connected to his telephone.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		He's a pretty affable fellow, but it's shame because he has waited all night, but I know that we can probably get together with him soon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
		At any rate, we've tried to reconnect.
		No luck.
		His phone is out in Texas.
		I guess they do have storms in Texas.
		I saw it on the weather map.
		I don't think we're going to suffer any lack of debate with Peter Gerston here, the way he's taken off in the last hour or so.
		Really, in direct opposition, Stephen, to your approach to this situation.
		In fact, he even took a shot at you.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Not quite direct, but I'll tell you what.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought it was pretty direct.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you what, I'm going to step back for a second.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		I've got a couple things I've got to do here, and then Peter and I are going to go at it at 10 paces with nose probes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I like that.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		I've got a treat for your late-night listeners.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		People that actually stuck it out to the fifth hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, very good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go right ahead.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		And this is kind of cool because there's going to be more about this shortly.
		But here's your treat tonight.
		A press release went out nationally on January the 1st.
		We dated January the 1st.
		I think it actually went out on the 3rd.
		To all media at C, essentially announcing that on the 13th of January at noon in Phoenix, Arizona, at the Hyatt Regency, Phoenix, Frances Emma Barwood, former city councilwoman of the city of Phoenix, is going to announce her candidacy for the Secretary of State of Arizona.
		That is the number two position in the state of Arizona.
		In fact, at this time, the current elected Secretary of State is the acting governor of Arizona because the previous governor got in a bit of trouble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So she's going to run.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		She's going to run.
		And after the news conference, which was so stated in the press release, she is going to announce two things which are of historical significance.
		First of all, she is going to announce that, actually one thing, and one thing that's of significance to me, she's going to announce that she will be the first candidate, viable candidate, meaning contending candidate, not an ultra-super deep French candidate, but a contending candidate for any high office in this nation since its founding,
		who is going to run for office with the UFO issue, the extraterrestrial presence issue, as a key, open, and directly approached aspect of her campaign.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I take it she has assembled the political courage to do this on the basis of defeating the recall election that they tried and tried and tried and tried to foist upon her.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, she's always had the courage.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		She's doing it because it's the right thing to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I'm sure that didn't hurt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, there is political courage, certainly, that is garnered from looking at the votes and counting the votes.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, she came on your show.
		She's able to get the word out nationally.
		She got some support.
		And the fact of the matter is, she won.
		And I think the lesson was that all those politicians out there that are scared to death of this thing are making a mistake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, here's the interesting thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do believe people in the position she is now running for have become governor in the past in Arizona.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Several times.
unidentified		This is an important position.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		This is a state that is loaded with military bases, military facilities, laboratories.
		It has a very powerful government presence.
		It's had one of the most extraordinary sightings in history, which, regardless of what the reason for those lights were, which to my mind has not been proven, the response to it was unacceptable, simply out of the question.
		It was a patriarchal, you're the daddy, you're the little children, you just keep to yourself.
		Let us play with our Army stuff and our Air Force stuff, and don't bother us with your lights hanging over your city.
		This is not the government that we set out to have.
		She doesn't want that government, and she's going to run approaching that issue.
		But she's not going to fool around.
		She is going to have marshaled behind her the resources of the entire extraterrestrial phenomena research community in this nation.
		Researchers from around the country, including Mr. Peter Gerston, including Bob Dean, including Jim Mars, and others, are going to be there.
		They're going to be there on the stage when she announces her candidacy.
		they're going to be introduced and perhaps it will take some questions from the press he's also going to announce at this time On the 13th of January at noon at the Hyatt Regency Phoenix, in downtown Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		January 13th, wow.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		And she's going to announce that she is going to have a co-campaign manager arrangement.
		One campaign manager is going to handle her state issues.
		That person is obviously going to be based in Arizona and knowledgeable.
		The other campaign manager is going to be specifically handling the entire UFO issue as it affects her campaign and how it's going to be presented to the public so that makes sure it's done professionally and it's done intelligently and also to help defend her against what may be one of the most withering and most intense ridicule that any candidate may ever see in this country.
		Unless, in fact, we've really underestimated the sophistication of the people.
		As it happens, that other co-campaign manager is going to be yours truly, Steve Bassett.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, congratulations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Sir.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		So I'm going to be not only the first UFO lobbyist in the country, I'm going to be the first UFO campaign manager in the country.
		Now, what this means, only history will sort out.
		But I look forward to it.
		I embrace it.
		It's going to be an enormous amount of fun.
		And I can only say to those people who are ready to step up and put it to Frances Emma Barwood, you had better know what you're talking about because she's not standing alone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		I will have her on the program.
		Do you think I could entice her to be on the program prior to that news conference?
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Well, I will have to check with her.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		I know that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got a phone number.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		I'll call.
		It may be because of some practical things and because of the enormous pressure of getting ready for that art, it might be better to have it on the night of the press conference.
		So consider That, if you would, please.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll consider it, but I'll still call.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		To recap, before Peter and I go at it, let's recap the story so far.
		Here's the situation.
		These are the things that are hanging out there and bringing pressure to bear on the status quo.
		One, Philip Corso's allegations in his book, which are still hanging in the air, not yet responded to by the government, not yet treated by the press.
		That's point one.
		Point two, a legal action is underway that Peter Gerston happens to be pursuing, which puts a direct line of legal attack on the Coruso issues by going after the documents and thus creating a basis for a trial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Thus creating another point of media attention when it happens.
		Therefore, I consider that pressure.
		Secondly, you have multiple pools of witnesses, C. SETIS, also the witnesses that are very close friends and associated with Bob Dean at Stargate.
		And then, of course, you've got Richard Hoagland continuing to pour over NASA photographs on the moon and Mars, along with a lot of other people looking for every little thing they can find.
		And that includes video footage from shuttle launches.
		That's additional pressure.
		We have a massing petition that is spreading around the Internet.
		And because of the nature of the Internet, if it catches fire, you could see 10,000 petitions downloaded in a day and a million signatures in a week, technically speaking, because of the way the Internet works.
		You also have ongoing discussions on Capitol Hill.
		I've had some myself with members of the House and the Senate, members of committee, committee chairs, as well as think tank briefings which Greer hasn't been involved in.
		All of this is putting pressure by raising the level of awareness of the people in the outer circle, the ones that are outside this core group that Peter feels convinced will never alter their view of, quote, giving up their secret or never will be coercible into that view.
		So this is the game so far.
		We invite people to go to your site and link into these other sites to get the petition.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, we've got it.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		And then we have one more item that's going to come to bear, and that is in two weeks you're going to see an ad published in the Washington Post, full page, which is direct and to the point.
		It's going to be signed by some very well-known, significant people.
		And that ad can be viewed for the first time by going to the Anagram video site linked to Art Bell's site.
		And your comments are welcome.
		We invite people to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it up yet?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it up now?
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		It may be up now.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		I know most of the site's done, but this particular ad is a big documentary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are going to be a lot of people going up there looking for it to see it before it's published in the Washington Post.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if you say it's there, you're sending people up there and they're going to say where it is.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		There's plenty there.
		They also have a petition there.
		They've got information on Paradigm.
		They've got all the contracts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If it is not there, it'll be there within 24 hours, right?
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		I think so, yes.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, let's see if I was really wrong.
		Once again, here's Peter Gerson.
		Peter, I thought you took a shot at Stephen.
		You didn't think you did, did you?
unidentified		Well, not at Stephen personally.
unidentified		Just where he was coming from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Just listening to some.
unidentified		Let me just backtrack a minute and then I'll answer the question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, not an ad hominem attack, but an attack on his position.
unidentified		Some of his methods.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, that we can do this and we can do it through the existing structure of government.
unidentified		Misdirected.
		I do not have a website at the present time, but in February, I will have state-of-art, pardon me, pun, website on the Internet, of course, and it will have some really interesting new things.
		But until then, I would like to compile a mailing list.
		I would like all your listeners out there who have email addresses, who are online, to email me, and they can reach me at UFO LawyerNumber1.
		In other words, just the way it sounds, UFO Lawyer, L-A-W-Y-E-R, with a number one at appicandaol.com.
		So I can compile a mailing list of the people who, as Dr. Mitchell said, want to force the issue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		UFO Lawyer Number One.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		UFO LawyerOne at AOL.com.
unidentified		That's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		You realize, Art, you have the first UFO lawyer, the first UFO lobbyist, the first UFO campaign manager on the show at the same time.
unidentified		And the only campaign manager, lobbyist, and lawyer, UFO related.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		But I think there are a couple other lawyers out there that almost would consider themselves in the field as deep as Pete.
unidentified		Just get together.
		Email me.
		We have to organize.
		To answer your question, Male.
		Steve does great things.
		The fact that this show is going on now, I have to hand it to Steve.
		It's amazing.
		The question is, where is he coming from?
		He has come on the scene and he's asking for certain things that I see have been asked for before.
		But he's also going after great things.
		I listened to him talk about Councilwoman Ballwood, and I love it.
		I have some questions about the relationship between the position Secretary of State and the UFO issue.
		I'm not sure what he means by the UFO issue.
		And I'm going to be at the press conference because I want to ask exactly what it is we're talking about.
		What's the platform on the quote-unquote UFO issue?
		Because we're talking about a much bigger phenomenon.
		In other words, I don't want to concentrate on the one corner of this little puzzle.
		There's a lot going on, but it's great.
		If we can raise the Phoenix through barwood, that would be perfect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's ask them.
		I mean, what do you mean by the UFO issue?
		What are the differences here between the way you two define that?
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Well, one of the problems with this whole thing is we have to understand that the phenomena, the implications are so vast that it's really like 10 or 12 people going down and jumping in the Pacific Ocean and swimming around for a couple of years and then coming back and trying to relate their experiences.
		I think the landmine issue is something that's so well defined that you could almost see everybody that was working on that just on a nice, simple, basic track.
		It's nothing complicated about it.
		This is huge.
		So you've got all kinds of people coming at from different points of view.
		And there's also different kinds of work to do.
		Richard is a big picture guy.
		He's going to figure this whole thing out.
		He may even be figuring out what's going on in other galaxies before he's done.
		Peter is also a big picture guy.
		He's also a bootstrap guy.
		I mean, he would like to launch his own moon probe, go up there, get the artifacts, bring them back, show them to Dan rather personally.
		The government will be coming to him to find out what's going on, which is something that technically we have the money to do.
		The fact is we have the power, we have economic power in this country, to have our own moon program.
		We have the power to have our own intelligence service.
		We can have a lot of things.
		So he's referring to the fact that to some degree there's a co-opting process here.
		No problem with that.
		But as far as Frances Barber's campaign, first of all, the phrase UFO, believe me, I am one of those people that if we could get rid of it tomorrow, if I could snap my fingers and those three letters would disappear from the face of the earth, I think we'd be better off.
		But nevertheless, we're stuck with them.
		Her campaign is relevant for this reason.
		At the core of this issue is the relationship between the government and citizens.
		The UFO issue happens to magnify that relationship.
		It happens to bring out its warts very starkly.
		And they showed up in Phoenix by the inadequate response to a very significant event, which was patronizing and insulting.
		It gets in the issues of states' rights.
		It gets in the issue of oversight.
		It gets in the issue of certainly secrecy.
		Also, you have all those government facilities there.
		What is the relationship between the state of Arizona and those government facilities?
		Particularly when you're essentially, you're hosting them.
		And then when you go to them with a minor issue like, well, we think we've got a mile-wide craft above us, and they go, sorry, we went out for pizza.
		We really can't deal with that right now.
		But, you know, call us if you see anything.
		This is not the way the state and the government should be interacting.
		As a Secretary of State, she has an obligation to see to it that the state has proper oversight of election activities and a lot of other things, and yet you have a total lack of oversight with respect to government facilities within the state.
		Does Arizona really know what's going on there?
		What's underground?
		What isn't?
		Are we going to continue to have the government going to the states and saying, look, we'd like to apologize for that radiation thing we did to you all back in 1977?
		You know, one where we radiated all your cattle and your sheep.
		We didn't tell you then.
		We're telling you now.
		I think that kind of stuff's got to go away.
		So that's important.
		Also, however, this idea of the kept secret, which is corroding the relationship between citizens and the government, she's saying that, look, it raised its head in my state.
		My state has connections to the government.
		Therefore, to be a candidate for high office in this state and me to pretend like the UFO issue doesn't exist simply because it's appropriate, I mean, appropriate, but because it's easy or because it's what the spin doctors want me to do is not something that I can do.
		I want this part of my campaign.
		I'm willing to take the heat for it.
		Look, if 100 candidates ran tomorrow with the UFO issue as part of their campaign, we'd probably have this thing resolved.
		Because it would be so in debate and there'd be so much interchange, the media would have to cover it.
		And before you know it, you've got Woodwards and Bernstein tunneling underneath the Pentagon.
		Unfortunately, nobody steps forward, but Francis Barwood is.
		Stephen Schiff did, and I hope others will follow in their suit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Peter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What argument do you have with that?
unidentified		No, I have no argument against that.
		I'm all for it.
		Sounds like a lot of fun.
		It's just a question of how much authority does she have.
		Does she have authority to institute an investigation into alleged alien abductions?
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		She certainly has the ability to influence the state to not simply lie down when the government turns its back on it or something else happens.
		You know, take the Area 51 thing.
		Imagine if Area 51 was in Arizona.
		You've got people, citizens of Arizona, go to work at a government facility, get completely toasted, can't get workman's comp, can't get satisfaction, get told to go pound sand.
		The government pretends they don't exist.
		If I am the Secretary of State of that citizen of Arizona, of course this happens to be Nevada, you get the idea.
		Well, wait a minute.
		I ought to have a say in how this citizen of my state is being treated.
unidentified		Well, I agree, but let's stick to the UFO issue.
		And that's the controversial issue.
		There are a lot of things going on in Arizona.
		Let's assume March 13th, those lights.
		We have a right.
		And odd, I live in Arizona.
		We have a right.
		It's interesting that when I lived in New York, the Hudson Valley sightings occurred over those three years.
		I moved to Arizona, and all of a sudden we get those sightings.
		But I don't maintain, as Stephen Greer does, that I'm the one that has called them forward, and that's why they were there, because I was in Phoenix.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		You may be misinformed on that, Peter.
unidentified		Well, I'm glad.
		I'll tell you that.
		I'm glad.
		But what I'm saying is that we have a right to know what that was in the sky.
		That could have been a terrorist activity.
		That could have been XYZ.
		They don't tell us what shoots down a TWA plane, but we have a right to know.
		And if you have a strong Secretary of State or a strong governor who makes that an issue and doesn't stop until there's accountability, then that's great.
		I'm all for it.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		All right.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		You've also got a politician who's a model for others.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, gentlemen, hold it right there.
		Peter Gerstn, Stephen Bassett are my guests right now.
		I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast AM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I have an announcement.
		This is from the Anagram site.
		Joseph Bergeron, is it?
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Bergeron.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He writes, Dear Art, I'm happy to report that our website is finished and the ad for the Washington Post is up now, as well as information about Paradigm Research Group and Mr. Bassett.
		So, folks, if you will now go to my website at www.artbell.com and go to the Anagram site, you'll see the link, zip over there.
		We're going to hold that link on the site.
		Go over there and take a look, and you will see what's going to be appearing in the Washington Post about the middle of January or so.
		So how about that, Stephen?
		It's up there now.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, these people are a really crack team.
		They really know what they're doing.
		A bunch of them.
		They've got all the top equipment, computers, the works.
		In fact, I should mention that one of the things they've just completed is they did a video.
		It's basically a 90-minute video on Bob Dean's story.
		It's called The Greatest Story Never Told.
		It's a great title.
		It's a low-budget documentary, but it has some nice touches.
		And a lot of people are fans of Bob's.
		They go to the site, they can learn all about it.
		Or I think they've got a national distributor number.
		It's 888, which I believe is toll-free.
		338-8581.
		And that's for talking to him about Bob Dean's video, which I think is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm going to have Bob Dean on in the next couple of days.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		He's, yeah, very well with Darren.
		So that's one.
		Another couple of items.
		We'll get back to Peter.
		I want to mention that my website, Paradigm Group, Research Group website, will be up in a couple of weeks.
		I am working with a webmaster, Diana Botsford, who is a colleague of mine.
		She's, of course, the webmaster for the MSN UFO forum site, which currently doesn't have a link on our site, but I'm going to beg Keith until he gives me one.
		And she is, well, that site is obviously fully based on the UFO issue with a lot of political stuff up on it.
		It also has the petition.
		It's also going to end up with the ad.
		And I hope to have that site out in a couple of weeks and look forward to coming back and discussing that.
		And I guess the only other thing I'd like to mention is that out there in the West Coast, if there's somebody out there that has been very successful in life, has made some major money and they want to make a difference, there is no better time to consider the political activist movement of this genre as a possible target because you don't get many opportunities like this where you can infuse money into something that is going to change the worldview of every human being on the planet.
		It may not happen again for 5,000 years.
		So I invite those people to get in touch with any of these groups, but certainly if you get in touch with me, I'd be happy to direct you where your interest might lie.
		And of course, I can be reached at paradigmrg at aol.com.
		ParadigmRG at AOL.com.
		And I can also be reached by phone at 301-564-1820.
		and I appreciate it.
unidentified		Thank you.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		And now back to the best of Art Bell.
		Peter, let me say this.
		I think the way I look at what you're doing is rather as an alternative to the approach of trying to bring the government out in partnership.
		I believe it's just another piece of pressure which is going to help crack open their will to deceive.
		What do you think?
unidentified		Well, I agree to what you're saying.
		I just disagree as to the priority that you attach to these methods.
		I think the time has come to look past the object, the UFO, and look to the alien that is symbolized, that's the metaphor.
		The words that I've heard tonight, dysfunctional.
		I heard Brad Shaw mentioned, and he's the one with healing the inner child.
		Well, I think we'll pass that.
		In other words, we're going into the 21st century.
		We have to look at what's ahead.
		We have to look at now healing the inner alien and what that represents.
		We have to look to these alignments that Richard Hoagland has so well documented.
		In other words, Mars and Moon.
		And I would like to hear more about that.
		When he gets off on these tangents, when he makes these predictions, let him stick into his old backyard.
		But what he's talking about is happening, is occurring right here in Sedona, Arizona.
		We have these natural formations, not artificial structures, but strange natural structures that are alignments with the stars.
		We're talking about galactic astrology.
		I think a person that you have to get on your show is definitely Ray Mardix, who started and founded the Star School in Sedona.
		He's really into what's going on right now.
		And we have to open our vision.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'd be glad to do that.
		Get me information on him.
		We'll get him on the show.
unidentified		You got it.
		So to answer your question, anything is good that brings attention to what's going on.
		Well, I'm going to get a lot of attention.
		Congressional hearings, we'll see what it gets.
		Barwood's campaign, it looks great, sounds good, and I'm all for it.
		There's something going on in California, a day after Barwood's campaign, where a group of Air Force people officers are meeting with another group who has a certain amount of security clearance, and I've been invited to participate in a questioning of these Air Force people concerning some of Corsa's claims.
		What city is this taking place in?
		Orange County in California.
		I'm not sure the exact city.
		So I'm going to have to drive Wednesday morning from Arizona after spending all day on that press campaign, the press release and so forth, and drive to Orange County Wednesday morning and take part in two days of conferences and more press conferences and meetings.
		So there are certain things happening.
		But I'm not going to be held to any secrecy.
		I know there's a record conference.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Peter, Peter, Peter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got a fact here that says, please remind Peter that judges at the federal level are political appointees.
unidentified		Yeah, but for life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, for life.
unidentified		But it doesn't really matter.
		What's the judge going to do?
		You know, the more controversy, the more confrontations, great.
		You know, I'm going to create a media event when I go into court there.
		In other words, I have Corso.
		He holds the key to what's going on right now.
		As long as he's alive, if he dies, we've got to prove it.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he does.
		And Ted Coppel could almost as well turn that key as you could in a courtroom.
		And it's interesting to wonder if Mr. Koppel has ever considered Mr. Corso on.
		Is he not of every bit the same stature as a hundred other individuals that have been on that show discussing topics of importance?
unidentified		I'm going to make Corso a star.
unidentified		Everybody's going to know about him.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you get to that point in court, I can assure you I will do all in my power to have every camera in the nation focused on your head.
unidentified		I want to couple it with Barwood's campaign.
		In other words, when I announced the, I'm going to file this in Phoenix, and it's going to be transferred, change of venue, it's going to go to D.C., but I'll start it in Phoenix because that's where the request originated from.
		When I announced the filing of this lawsuit, I want Barwood.
		I want to come by.
		In other words, I get publicity for her.
		She gets publicity for the lawsuit.
		We work together getting more attention on what's really going on, though.
		Not just this small, minute E.T. issue.
		You know, we're talking about people being in contact with interdimensional.
		There are changes that are going on, phenomenal changes that are going to take place between now and then 2012.
		We keep on hearing about it.
		Let's wake up already.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		I don't know, Art, if we were to get Peter Gerson and Dick Hoagman actually in the same booth at a cafe.
unidentified		And Ray Martix.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		I think we could have a nuclear meltdown.
unidentified		Well, and Ray Martix.
unidentified		Ray Martix has his finger not on Mars, on the moon, but what's going here on Earth in Arizona.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		It's right here.
unidentified		Everybody should come and just watch and listen to him.
unidentified		It's right here what's happening.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		No one should be surprised when they discover, and this is what I've certainly discovered, when you move into this field, that you're going to meet people who are intelligent, who have educations, who have other careers, who are interested in this phenomenon, may even be activists, and also have extremely open minds, meaning that they're trying to embrace very large concepts, very far-out issues.
		And of course, our tendency is, okay, if you're embracing a far-out issue, you dispense with it.
		But then you have to reconcile, wait a minute, these people have all the other credentials, they have all the other stuff.
		And yet really what the message is, is that we are what we are today as a society because of the work of open minds.
		It is open minds that have devised the technology we base our society on, that have solved our problems.
		Closed minds don't tend to take you very far.
		And yet, even though that's the way we've evolved, we're constantly trying to shut down, or at least we're constantly moving, gravitating toward or embracing or acknowledging the closed mind and always ready to spring and go after the people whose minds are open and are willing to take in a lot of stuff.
		Maybe some of it is not going to go anywhere.
		Maybe some of it is only for amusement.
		But that openness creates the kiln in which you can really create new ideas and you can transcend worldviews.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here is a fact that I want to read to Peter that takes him on a bit, and maybe he can answer it.
		With all due respect to Peter and all his hard work and many achievements, I think he's missing the whole point.
		What he underestimates is the will of the American people to get to the truth.
		We've been lied to for years.
		Now is the time for truth.
		New blood is infusing an old movement.
		The point is not necessarily to pry loose obscure classified documents from past decades, but to shout with one voice that this is our country and we are the government.
		Now, is that naive?
unidentified		Well, it's simplistic.
		What's on here about a planet?
		Planetary phenomena.
		We're not talking about just the United States, just the Western Hemisphere, just our society.
		This is a planetary phenomenon.
		This transcends boundaries and borders.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
unidentified		And to rely on somebody else, let's take back our power.
		We don't have to rely.
		The evidence is here.
		Like I told you, like I started the show, I can prove in a court of law, if I'm given that forum, that we are in contact.
		People are in contact.
		There is enough evidence out there.
		We don't have to look to the government.
		Is the government going to tell us about aliens?
		That's what we're interested in.
		Where are they from?
		What do they look like?
		What's their culture?
		What's their political system?
		Do they die?
		Do they believe in God?
		We're only talking about these objects, this technology, this back-engineered reverse.
		I want to know about the aliens.
		And the people themselves tell us about the aliens.
		An open mind, fine.
		An open mind is great because you're open to the messages.
		You don't miss the opportunities.
		They're all over the place, the messages.
		Closed mind, you see one thing.
		And that's what our last friend seems to think, one thing.
		Relying on somebody else, it's time to grow up, Aud.
		We take responsibility for ourselves.
		We don't need the government anymore to tell us what's going on.
		We know, we know.
		Don't you know what's going on?
		Stephen Grant definitely knows what's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's see if you agree with this.
		Gentlemen, please, let's not be so naive, believing the CIA director can't find the records and so forth.
		I believe it.
		What a joke.
unidentified		I believe it.
		He's an appointed official.
		How long was he in office?
		Two years, three years?
		Where's he going to find?
		He doesn't have the access.
		You think he has the access to these sophisticated programs that they're filed under?
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		But the point is that to the general public, it would seem ridiculous.
		And because it seems ridiculous, that's why it's a problem.
		They expect certain things from the government, and when that's not the case, that raises a lot of concern.
		It raises a lot of doubt.
		We don't need doubt.
		We need to have confidence in our government.
		One of the things that intrigues me listening to Peter is this, that this business has been around a long time, and a lot of people have been drawn into it, and there's no rule that says you have to stop at a certain point.
		When I view this in the big picture, I really divide the world up into two halves, a pre-paradigm world and a post-paradigm world.
		And the line between the two is the line which occurs with disclosure and acknowledgement.
		Nothing more.
		You don't have to know all the particulars, just disclosure and acknowledgement.
		That's the paradigm line.
		And a lot of people, and I stand on this side of it, and I'm playing in the pre-paradigm world.
		There are a lot of people that really have no patience for that.
		They really want to get over the line, and they're already mentally, perhaps spiritually, in the post-paradigm world.
		And they kind of look back and go, look, I'm already over here.
		You all are back there on the other side of the river, running around, trying to build a boat.
		What's your problem?
		Peter is kind of like that.
		And I can't hardly blame him.
		He has the ability to intellectually cross that line, and he's already over there, and he's trying to figure out what to do next.
		I'm dealing kind of in the more of a pragmatic area, particularly when you think of the population as a whole.
		Peter Gerson is not quite representative of the population of a whole.
		I mean, we have a nation of 250 million people, and most of them are just leading a basic life.
		They're still going to be affected by this, and they've got to get over that line, too.
		And I think the processes that I'm dealing in, and Stephen Greer and Bob Dean, and Operation Right to Know, and these other organizations, Skywatch International, MOOCON, which has been around forever, flowing away, is involved in trying to bring everyone across intact and in a positive way.
		And that's part of reality, too.
		I mean, we are in a nation of individuals.
		One individual can do a lot of things, and yet we are also a nation of a quarter billion people, and they have to do things somewhat in concert as well.
		These are different mechanisms, different problems.
		Peter is well out there, and someone to kind of use as a beacon, sort of get a sense of where you may end up on what's going on on the other side.
		But unfortunately, I can't go there yet.
		I've got to stay back here in the trenches and fight this battle.
		he may prove to be right it may be that what we needed to do is build a powerful If the Steve Wozniaks and I mean the Wozniaks and the Steve Jobs and the Gates and the Ellisons and the Spielbergs and the people with major, major money who have the open minds and the technology had really invested in this, so we had 30, 40, 50, $100 million involved in this research effort, you would see what amounts to a citizen program.
		You'd probably have Citizen Moon launch.
		You would have major disclosure conferences.
		We'd hold vast symposiums, scientists from all over the world, and we wouldn't even care about MIT.
		Stanford MIT, go away.
		Don't care.
		Government, we don't care what you got.
		Keep your secrets.
		And we might even, we could be in a pre-paradigm world as a civilian society, and the government will be sitting there holding their secrets, and nobody cares anymore.
		It's a good point.
		But one of the key things that's blocked that is the money never came.
		Ted Turner threw a billion dollars at the UN.
		If he were to throw a billion dollars into the UFO issue, done deal, that's it.
		It's all over.
		Of course, the government might cash the check.
unidentified		Very well said.
		Perfect.
		You just sum the whole thing up.
		And by the way, I'm a double Pisces.
		I can go from one dimension to the other, back and forth.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		You're an unidimensional being.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Unfortunately, I'm a one-dimensional being, which explains why I could never get a date in high school.
unidentified		You have that, what was that that the astrologer said?
unidentified		What kind of energy did you have?
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Don't say that in the air, Peter.
		That's going to cause me a lot of grief.
		Do not say that.
		Do not say that.
		Can you tell it's pretty late, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For you guys, I mean, I'm listening to this thing go south very quickly now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you can tell the program is almost over.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		That's why you normally do call-ins in your fifth hour.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		I begin to figure out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's all right.
		we have disseminated a lot of very important information throughout the night and people uh...
		tend to get angry and don't like lawyers and one of the bottom of the ocean and all the rest of the time had a bunch of taxes like that but i think i I don't like lawyers either.
		Is that right?
unidentified		I'm a UFO lawyer.
		What is that?
		Anyway, I could be a lawyer.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		If you're going to like a lawyer, you should start with Peter.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		You might actually get used to it.
unidentified		I agree.
unidentified		I like myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so fax them at UFO LawyerOne at AOL.com and tell them your lawyer jokes.
unidentified		I get a lot of those.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the UFO lawyer jokes are particularly biting.
unidentified		I haven't heard any of those yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, those lawyers mostly they want shot up into a space where nobody can hear them scream.
unidentified		On the bottom of the ocean, right.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		very good for 555 eastern time and i understand that you have another program to do in washington d_c_ following this one which we're going to be on I'd like to get a full hour, but I think Chip's booked.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		And then, and forgive me, Art, but the broader issue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do the wild thing at 702-727-1295.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		This issue again and continue to get the message out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I certainly want to thank you both for being on with me.
		And we will, as this story progresses, and I think it may because of what we got on the air tonight, I think it will progress.
		So.
unidentified		Keep in touch, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As it does, I want to have you both back.
unidentified		I'm ready.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
unidentified		All right?
		It's been a pleasure.
		I heard you were the cosmic commander of the radio waves.
		Is that true?
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Sounds good.
unidentified		By default, perhaps, yes.
unidentified		You have a good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you both, and good night.
unidentified		Good night, Stephen.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Good night, Peter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		That's it, folks.
		We are about out of time.
		Again, updating you on a breaking story.
		This may not be breaking, obviously, if it's heard later in the week, and I suspect this is a program that we are going to repeat.
		Sonny Bono is dead unexpectedly.
		Again, a skiing accident just about, I understand, at dusk, which I'm told is one of the most dangerous times to ski.
		But it does seem rather odd that a Kennedy has passed and now a Sennibono in a skiing accident.
		Absolutely remarkable and just nearly beyond comprehension.
		At any rate, so that I can say that I took at least one phone call during the course of this program.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		You know, I haven't heard the last hour, but it seems to me that you're talking about the credibility of the media.
		I know Jim Marrs has been involved in investigating CI involvement in the Kennedy assassination.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, a real shame we couldn't get him on.
unidentified		Oh, I'm sorry, but.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We didn't get him on.
		Jim Marr's telephone sort of blew up as we began the interview.
		They're having storms in Texas.
		Listen, my friend, where are you, by the way?
unidentified		I'm in New Jersey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In New Jersey.
		Well, I'm afraid that the program has ended, but I am going to give you the honors.
		And the honors are you get to say goodnight to the world.
unidentified		Good night, and read Jim Murray's book and Robert Grodin and all those others who I think will give us a good impression into the duplicity of the media.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, my friend, that's it.
		We're out of time.
		See, I took a call.
		From the high desert, I'm Mark Bell.

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