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Dec. 19, 1997 - Art Bell
01:23:18
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Dale Kaczmarek - Ghost Research
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the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning, as the case
may be across all this great land and beyond.
From the Tahitian Hawaiian island chains in the west, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S.
Virgin Islands, south into South America, North all the way to the pole and worldwide on the internet.
This is Coast to Coast AM and I'm Art Bell.
Good morning.
It's great to be here.
Yes, we are here live.
And tonight is going to be a show of synchronicity.
Synchronicity.
I'm going to tell you, many of you would not have heard it, so I'm going to tell you what happened last night first because it bears On what we're going to do this evening.
Let me tell you, and I understand that many of you do not have computers, so let me simply explain the lash-up that I've got here, which is technically really cool, by the way.
I have a, when I'm on the air, a full-time connection to the internet.
Full-time.
and I have three in-studio cameras, Howard Industry cameras, by the way,
which you can get from the Z-Crane company, plug plug.
And one is to the side of me, one is directly in front of me,
and the other is to the side and rear of me.
And I have, I built a little lash-up where I have a sequencer,
and I sequence these cameras, and about, I don't know, every 45 seconds,
a new picture is automatically snapped by whichever camera happens to be active at that moment
and sent to the internet.
and I'll see you next time.
Now, I have been doing this for at least a half a year.
Five hours per night.
We have sent from these same cameras, under the precise same lighting conditions, literally tens of thousands of pictures Of, you know, me doing the show here in the studio on a nightly basis.
Sitting here doing the show.
Just fun for the website and fun for people who are listening to the program to be able to go up there and see me doing the program.
To get the chronology correct, last night we were doing a show with David Oates.
Reverse speech.
If you missed it, you'll catch it tomorrow night.
I think they're repeating it tomorrow night.
Now, we were discussing, we were doing reversals, in fact we were concluding reversals, on the show with Harlot Hatze, the devil worshipper, the satanist, the claimed witch.
She said she was a witch, but it was obvious by the end of the show that she was a satan worshipper.
Now, this was one scary young lady.
In so many ways.
And the one, of course, that is most prominently remembered by me and anybody else who ever heard it was about her daughter.
And she was, of course, dedicated, she said, to Satan.
And so I asked her a rather poignant question at the very end of the program.
I said, Patsy, you were harlot.
How do you know I mean, you have embraced Satan.
You know you're going to hell and that's where you'll be, but your daughter, very young daughter, you know, three years old or something, was murdered by your ex-husband.
How do you... You're going to be in one place and she's going to be in the other.
And she said, oh no, she won't.
I conducted a ceremony, a ritual, I forget what she said, to ensure that she would be embraced by hell, by Satan.
Really freaky stuff.
And this is what we were discussing.
I was actually, I think, having David repeat that segment, that reversal, which was frightening in itself.
Now, with that as a setup, it was one twenty-six, one hour, zero, one, twenty-six, twenty-one.
In other words, twenty-six minutes after one o'clock in the morning.
And seconds and change.
Now I happened, you know, I've got a monitor right next to me that shows me these photographs and I glanced over it at it and I about had a heart attack.
I'm serious.
I about had a heart attack.
The photograph that was showing on the monitor was completely, in my opinion, inexplicable.
And so I quickly reached over and I froze it.
You know, I've got a mouse right here and I froze the photograph, boom, like that.
And left it there, and it is still there right now.
Now, why is this unusual?
A. Because of what we were talking about.
B. Because there is... I don't know how you would describe it.
A protoplasmic... ...something... ...covering the front portion of my entire head.
And if you look very carefully and do any analysis of this electronic picture, which, believe me, people have been doing like crazy, one might guess or conclude a whole lot of things.
Now, number one, bear in mind, this is a CCD camera.
And these pictures are being sent live.
So, there's no double exposure here, because it's, you know, it's not a camera.
B, we have sent tens of thousands of similar pictures from similar angles to the website over the last half year, and nothing like this has ever, ever manifested.
So, it scared me.
I mean, it really, truly scared me, and I think with very good cause.
It is, uh, it's inexplicable in nearly every way that you can try and talk about it.
Simply inexplicable.
It does not cover just my head, but actually out and beyond my head.
Now, let's cover some of the obvious possibilities.
A smoke.
Could it be smoke?
Well, yeah, but it isn't.
As a matter of fact, at that moment I was not smoking, for one thing.
For another, Um, the obvious trail of smoke from my hand, or say the ashtray, which is, if you look carefully, is visible in the photograph.
Uh, it would show a trail of smoke from there, or say from my mouth, um, upward, to explain this photograph.
That, none of that is true.
None of that is there.
I think that this is a genuine, What?
Ghost photograph?
Maybe.
Maybe a ghost.
Maybe an entity.
Maybe a presence.
Maybe the subject material.
Maybe harlot.
Maybe a lot of things.
I don't know, but I can tell you this.
I had quite a discussion with Keith, my webmaster.
He said, well, some have suggested it might be a reflection from your watch band.
Not a chance.
Look carefully at the picture.
It's up there now.
And you will see my watch band.
And you will clearly see the watch band is not reflecting anything which it would in a very shiny way.
This is not a reflection from anything.
It's not double exposed.
It's not scanned.
It's not... Excuse the English.
It's not nothing.
It's just a raw, straight-out image.
And I believe proof of I don't know what.
Could this have been something that came from my mind?
Could this be something that came... In other words, where did this come from?
I don't know.
Somebody called and said, It's just gray hair.
Bull!
I don't have gray hair.
I have, you know, maybe a couple of strands of gray hair.
A few strands of gray hair.
And I have a fair amount of gray in my mustache.
But my hair for the most part is dark brown to black.
So I'm keeping that photograph up there.
And I really recommend that any of you who feel like doing it, grab that photograph.
Dissemble it in any manner you wish, magnify it, go to work on it, do whatever you can do with it, and you tell me what it is.
But I know what it isn't.
Now, when you talk with people like my guest coming up, Dale Kesmerack, who runs the Ghost Research Society in Oakland, Illinois, which, by the way, is near Chicago, and I'll be telling you more about him in a moment.
I've done many interviews with people like Dale, who do research on things like this.
But never before, with the exception maybe of one sharp knock on my door that scared the heck out of me, never before have I had any personal photographic evidence of anything in all the years that I've talked about these subjects.
And it's been a lot of years now, folks.
A lot of years now.
And I have never, never, never, never seen anything like this.
Now, some people called and said, well, nice gray hair.
And so I had Keith look back through the files of other photographs, you know, every now and then he will save the last photograph taken every night by these studio cams.
I said, please put one up there, similar angle if you can find it.
He has done that.
In the new items on my website, you will see Two photographs.
You've got to click on them to make them full size.
One is the current studio cam photograph and the other is a photograph taken at the same angle to give you an idea of what color my hair really is.
So there you have it.
I believe what I have up there right now is one of the most inexplicable photographs I have ever seen in my entire life because of all the reasons that I just gave you.
My wife looked at it and went holy smokes or a derivation thereof and stared at it for a very long time as did my boss as have you know Bob Crane everybody I know I called today and I've said please take a look at this photograph so there you have it if you want to see it It's on my website right now, either by going to the Studio Cam.
Now, I will activate that live and wipe this photograph out eventually.
Here, maybe in a couple hours.
I'm going to leave it up there for a while.
And you can see the comparison that Keith put up, which is in, I believe, the first item in the new items section.
I mean, when I tell you this is freaky, I'm telling you from a person, and I don't very frequently get to do that.
This isn't someone else.
This is not somebody's story.
This is me telling you this happened last night and scared the heck out of me.
So anyway, coming up shortly, and of course it's fairly synchronistic, is it not, that I have somebody who is an expert In just exactly this sort of thing coming on here in a moment.
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And there is more.
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Pretty cool, huh?
And what do they do with that?
Dip it in 24 karat gold.
It's a $23 value.
The American Gold Rose Company.
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They can get it to you by Christmas.
1-800-458-7134.
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Now, I would like any of you, when we get into open lines, who have analyzed this photograph, in any way you can manage to analyze it, Um, chime in and I would like to hear your thoughts.
Now, fortunately, I did call Dale earlier today and alert him to this photograph, and so he has seen it.
Who is Dale David Kaczmarek?
Well, he has been actively investigating paranormal phenomena since 1975, though his interests go far beyond that.
He says he works With physics, which helped to complement my investigations, whether local or out of state.
Yes, he is a ghost investigator.
He has conducted many investigations concerning ghost lights, haunted houses, battlefields, cemeteries, Indian burial grounds, murder sites, churches, sacred sites, and so on.
He is currently listed in the Encyclopedia of Associations Directory of Newsletters.
The Forensic Services Directory.
Instant Information.
He personally directs excursions into the unknown, haunted Chicagoland Tours, which is part of the Oaklawn Chamber of Commerce and has led groups to England as well.
He contributed a chapter for a book released by Bantam called True Tales of the Unknown, the Uninvited.
And several chapters for Dead Zones, released by Warner Brothers and both edited by Sharon Jarvis.
He's also written a book tentatively entitled Windy City Ghosts, which deals with strange and unusual sightings in and around Chicago.
The latter has not yet been accepted for publication, so I guess he has a manuscript of it.
He is a sub-operator for several computer bulletin board systems, and belongs to America Online, and has been to England and Wales seeking out the paranormal.
He is a member of all kinds of, uh, well, the Ghost Research Society, editor of Ghost Tracker's newsletter, uh, is a member of the American Electronic Voice Phenomena, a group Honorary life member of the Ghost Club, Society for the Investigation of the Unexplained, and so forth and so on.
Here is Dale Kasmarak.
Dale, welcome to the program.
Good evening.
Good evening to you.
I booked you, you will recall, when did I book you anyway?
I booked you, when did we first talk on the phone, do you recall?
Oh, a few days back.
A few days ago, yeah.
And so, of course, I had no idea that I would be running into... I usually try to stay pretty objective, Dale.
I have been on a search, a lifelong search, and I think many of us have, to try and figure out if there is some sort of conscious existence, you know, beyond death.
And I've been at that for years and years and years, and I guess you have too.
Because it says here in personal goals that you two are really seeking to try and figure out if there is something that is beyond this life.
How sure are you there is?
Well, I am very sure.
I've been investigating sites and locations for 25, 30 years now.
I have never actually seen one myself, but I believe through the evidence we've collected over the years as far as our electronic equipment that we bring along to investigate sites, being in locations where I have little brushes with the paranormal, including cold spots that I felt should not be there, strange odors and psychic smells, and many of the photographs that we have taken at unusual locations are sometimes just pictures that people have sent me from around the world.
Uh, that show unusual forms, shapes, uh, semi-transparent figures of people or, uh, animals sometimes that were not there when these people took the photograph.
So... Right.
It's not just a matter of whether I believe or disbelieve in the subject.
I think it's just the preponderance of the evidence that I've gotten over the years that really has directed me into the path of trying to figure out what these things really are.
Okay, so then your approach to this has been evidentiary.
In other words, you've tried to simply collect evidence on audio or video or photographs or going in with equipment to measure that kind of thing.
You've been looking for direct and hard evidence.
Direct and hard evidence and also trying to rule out, obviously, to begin with, natural explanations that could cause these hauntings or the ghost phenomenon.
And by using the equipment, by using The cameras and the various forms of equipment that we do use, we can rule out a lot of possible natural explanations and get down to the nitty-gritty, so to speak.
And you've been doing this now for 30 years?
Close to 30 years, yes.
How come?
An obvious question.
In other words, it's an odd field.
What takes somebody like you into a field like this?
Well, it sounds a little corny, actually, but my parents told me ghost stories when I was a youngster.
It's not corny.
It kind of stuck with me as I began to get a little bit older and And of course that is going to be the next question.
What is there?
There are a lot of stories in the Chicagoland area, in the suburbs that I have been working
on for quite a number of years and some have turned out to be dead ends and others tend
to be more evidential as far as what is there.
And of course that is going to be the next question, what is there.
I mean how did you begin?
Did you begin it as a hobby?
I know now you give tours and that sort of thing.
So, in a sense, I guess you're a professional.
Is that fair?
Yes.
It generally was a hobby at first.
It was something I enjoyed doing.
I still enjoy doing, but then it became more of a full-time vocation, if you will, to actually Seek out these locations, talk to people, interview people who have had experiences, and then actually go into the on-site investigations.
Well, the fun part.
All right, Dale.
Hold on.
We'll be right back to you.
bottom of the hour, coast to coast AM, just getting started.
Oh, and it's all right and it's coming along They got it still right back where we started from
Oh, and it's all right and it's coming along They got it still right back where we started from
To talk with Art Bell on Coast to Coast AM from outside the U.S., first dial your access numbers to the USA, then dial 1-800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM from the Kingdom of Nye, with Art Bell.
I would be the one.
Dale Kaczmarek is my guest from Chicago.
he heads a society that hunts for ghosts.
We'll get back to him in a moment.
By the way, I was errant.
I'm supposed to be saying hello there to WLNI-FM in Madison Heights, Virginia, actually serving
the Lynchburg, Virginia area.
So as the march toward FM talk radio continues, you will find them at 105.9 on the FM dial
all over the Lynchburg area.
Welcome to the program.
Glad to have you.
As the network just keeps growing and growing and growing and growing.
Just one quick comment.
I'm getting a million faxes on this photograph.
Here, Art, I've studied the photo of the ectoplasm.
That's what he calls it.
I will ask about that.
Seemingly emerging from your head.
I've done it very carefully and thoroughly.
Disseminating and analyzing all of the many possibilities.
And I have come to the only logical conclusion And it is, you're a spook.
Aloha, Bob, from Hawaii.
Yeah, thanks, Bob.
Thanks.
Maybe I've been dealing with this material too long.
All right, back now to Chicago, or the Chicago area, and Dale Kazmarek.
Dale, welcome back.
Thank you.
I am getting your last name correct, am I not?
Kazmarek.
Kazmarek.
Okay, thank you.
You have taken, let me begin with my own scary, frightening experience here.
You've looked at that photograph on the website.
What do you think?
At first glance, and I've actually had a chance to get a copy off there and print it out on my color printer here.
So I'm looking at it right now as I'm talking to you.
Again, at first glance, it looks like you aged about 30 or 40 years.
Yeah, I know.
Everything in front of your headset is just generally white, and there is some actually coming off the actual forehead into space here.
Yeah.
I have seen only maybe a handful of similar photographs.
This could be a lot of different things.
At first glance, it looks to me like some form of energy.
Maybe some form of ectoplasm, some sort of living energy.
Okay, let me stop you right there.
What in the heck is ectoplasm?
Someone said that in a fax.
Ectoplasm, what is it?
Well, ectoplasm is very often encountered in seances where a Psychic or a medium is giving a seance and sometimes this substance, whether it be cloud-like material, seems to exude from the fingertips, sometimes from the head, sometimes from other extremities.
The thought behind what ectoplasm really is, is living organic material.
In other words, externalization of thought.
Externalization of thought.
As in my thoughts?
As of anybody's thoughts.
That's, you know, one theory of what it could be.
The other theory is maybe a little bit more far-fetched, that perhaps there was something in the studio that time, and it was just happened to be captured on that one single frame and nothing else, meaning an entity of some kind.
You heard the context in which the moment that it was taken is actually time stamped on there, thankfully.
And we were talking about this end sequence with this gal I had interviewed, Harlot, the Satanist.
And I wonder if, so that leads me to wonder, Two things.
I'm so in the dark about all this.
In other words, did this come from my mind because of the subject material being discussed?
Or did this come from perhaps Harlett, for all I know?
Or somebody capable of projecting this sort of thing?
I don't know.
I'm so lost, Dale.
I'm so lost.
It could be either or.
I'm basically kind of grasping at straws right now.
Just having a few hours to actually look at this photograph.
But it is very strange.
I haven't actually seen the comparison of photographs, but I've seen other photographs generated through your website.
Tens of thousands.
Yeah.
From the same camera, same angle, same lighting.
Nothing changed.
Nothing.
And the only thing that I saw earlier in the day Uh, well, did my watch reflect on it?
But you'll see my watch there, and if the watch was reflecting, there would be a flash from that in the lens itself.
Correct.
And I doubt that it would, in fact, I should try some experiments with these CCD cameras, but I doubt that it would, even a reflection, I suppose if I get a mirror, And shine light into it at various angles.
I could experiment, but it doesn't produce something like this.
Well, the thing about reflections is that you must be reflecting off a reflective surface to get a reflection.
Surely your hair is not a reflective subject.
No.
Not like a mirror or a glazed surface or something that has the ability to bounce back that light back to the camera or whatever is taking the picture.
Obviously your hair is not made of that substance that would be able to bounce back that light.
So I would effectively rule out reflection at this point.
The other thing is where my watch was at an angle, if you look at it, the lights are all above me.
There's no angle to the camera from that watch.
You can see a very light, brighter portion on the watch, but not a reflection.
So, I am totally lost.
I am totally dumbfounded, kind of scared, and really lost, and I'm glad you're on the air tonight, sorta.
You've seen other photographs like this, though?
Yeah, similar.
Usually there are some sort of strange anomalous type mist that can be anywhere from white to gray to even blue.
I have many examples on my website.
Very often, this is the most often recorded type of phenomenon, some sort of strange mist or glow.
Again, this may be a form of some sort of random energy.
This may be a Something like a spirit that is trying to take form into more of a human appearance or an animal appearance and it hasn't quite coalesced into that figure.
Again, most of these photographs are usually taken when people don't see something and something later shows up in the film when it gets developed.
It's not normally caused by, you know, development flaws or something of this nature.
I've had many of these photographs Analyzed by Kodak in Rochester, New York.
I work with photography people, specialists and experts in the field.
Right.
To kind of get their feel, because they develop film for a living all the time and they know what would cause certain types of lights or mist or flaw to show up on these films.
Well, I know for example that people can get their camera strapped in front of the lens.
Yes.
It's way out of focus.
It shows up as kind of a stripe or a mist or something.
Exactly.
Uh, but here we've got a CCD camera.
No double exposure possible.
No camera strap.
Uh, very fixed conditions where tens of thousands of similar photographs have been taken.
Really, I just, I am sorry I can't let it alone.
I've been freaked out about it since yesterday.
And I guess I'd like to know what it means.
Do you think?
There's no way to know.
Uh, what am I asking you for?
You can't know.
Does it mean that there's a haunting going on?
Does it mean That because I was dealing with this material that there was some sort of synergy going on that caused it?
I don't know.
Anyway, I'm through talking about it.
It does look like some form of energy, but again, what actually it is, it's really kind of hard to say if it's caused by a living person or by a non-living entity of some kind.
It does look like some form of Cloudy, misty substance.
But more than that, I really can't venture a guess at this point.
I'd probably have to do a little more examining on it.
Those who want to see it, it's on my website.
By the way, if you go to my website and scroll down to the guest area, you will see Dale Kaczmarek's name.
Kaczmarek?
Kaczmarek.
I'll get it.
And just a click on his name and you will go to his website and there there will be many examples of ghost photographs.
And I guess Dale, I would ask you to start off by sort of laying out to the audience what you've seen, what you know, maybe some of your better stories.
Whatever you've got, let it unfold the way you want.
Okay, well, basically what I try to do when I get involved with a location is, the number one thing is to rule out natural explanations.
We do go through regular interviews with people to find out what's going on from start to finish.
We then bring in some scientific equipment that we do use.
Now, the equipment that we do use actually has other purposes for it.
In other words, you can't simply go out to Uh, to a local hardware store or to a local department store and ask to buy ghost busting equipment.
What do you use?
Yeah, that's a good question.
What kind of equipment?
We do, uh, we use, uh, devices that will register and pick up anomalous energies or deviations in electromagnetic fields.
Um, there is a theory that when there is a presence of some kind, that there may be a disturbance of some flux Or disturbance in the electromagnetic field.
And these equipment that we do have will pick up this sort of flux.
We use a device called a Tri-Field Meter.
It's a device that was put together by Bill Lee of Alpha Labs out in Salt Lake City.
A Tri-Field Meter?
What is it?
Tri-Field indicates it's looking at three things.
The meter can be set for different types of things.
From electromagnetic to simply electrical energy.
It'll also pick up radio and microwave as well.
Okay.
And this device has safeguards built in so that whatever reading you're getting is, for the most part, not caused by power surges in the house, electrical wiring.
In other words, there are filters and safeguards built in for this.
But whatever reading you get, you then have to sort of analyze it as you're getting it to find out if there is another possible explanation for it.
We've used this with great success in investigating sites, because not only will it pick up electromagnetic disturbances, if you set this on simply the electrical setting and leave it in a room, it will react to any motion or any movement in that room, which then would give an audible and a visual signal on the device.
We often use that along with voice activated tape recorders at the same time.
In other words, there would be a movement in the room, it would then kick on the tape
recorder and the tape recorder would begin to record the sounds of what's going on in
that particular room.
All right, one at a time.
The electromagnetic deviation that you look for, that makes absolute sense to me and I
understand that.
The movement sensor.
Now a movement sensor, for example, I have them all around my home and when people are
within 100 yards or 50 yards or whatever, they sense movement or heat of the body and
automatically turn on floods.
Is it the same kind of thing?
Well, basically what this device is actually picking up and capturing, it's energy in motion, in other words, kinetic energy.
You can simply wave your hand in front of this device, and by breaking up the electrical energy Okay.
front of this device it will then give a signal.
This can be used in cases such as poltergeist cases where there are movements of objects,
objects that simply fly around from place to place.
So that device is the most often used piece of device that we do use.
Okay, that would indicate, certainly in poltergeist activity where some physical thing is moving
I would understand that, but you would imagine that some sort of entity, like the one you
might see in the picture of me there, would not set off anything unusual.
In other words, I didn't see any substance.
God, that's slightly wrong.
There was some substance, but not in the same physical sense of your body and my body in front of a motion sensor.
Now, I sure wish I had something to look at the electromagnetic state in here at that moment, but I didn't.
What do you find in your investigations electromagnetically?
How frequently do you see electromagnetic deviations when there's something going on?
Usually better than 70 or 80 percent of the time.
If there's something particularly going on, as far as a haunting, whether it be movements of objects, strange noises, smells, visual apparitions, Or some sort of paranormal occurrences going on, this device will normally kind of almost lead you right to where the site is, where the hot spot in this building may be.
It's like using a watchdog or a bloodhound to pick up a trail of something.
This device will basically lead you to wherever the deviation is the strongest.
Now that deviation may fluctuate from time to time.
It may be a very high signal, it may be a low signal.
It really depends on the conditions in the room and even the strength of the ghost, if you will, that's giving off this signal.
All right.
What about... Now, here's one thing I didn't feel last night.
I didn't feel the much-described cold spot.
You know, there was no cold involved with this.
That I recall at all, none.
And yet I hear so many people, when they talk about apparitions and ghosts, feeling or sensing some sort of very cold spot that can actually, I'm told, be measured with a thermometer.
Yes?
We go one step further than that.
We actually have a, what's called a Raytech non-contact infrared device.
It looks like a little like a plastic gun basically and basically what you do is you point this anywhere in the room it'll give you an instant reading bouncing off whatever object or coldness or hot spot might be in the room and give you an instantaneous reading rather than waiting for a thermometer to adjust to that cold spot which will take several minutes.
Right.
This device will give you an instant reading, and you can literally take this around the room with the trigger held, and you can see the fluctuation of temperature from one room to another, or one area on that particular room to another, and again pinpoint the cold spot up there.
In fact, there is one there.
What have you ever seen with that?
How much of a differential have you ever seen in any given room?
To give you an example, I was doing some work In a cemetery.
In an outdoor situation, which you would think would be the same temperature pretty much everywhere.
Or at least in any given localized area, sure.
Sure.
Within a few degrees.
We were in a cemetery in downstate Decatur, Greenwood Cemetery.
And I was getting readings of about, oh, say, 80 or 82 degrees, roughly, on the ground level.
When I picked this up, approximately, I would say maybe 45 degrees off the ground, so maybe I'm guessing 10, 12, 15 feet off the ground.
I got a differential of about 22 degrees.
22 degrees?
Yeah, so that's quite cold.
Was this the surrounding air down 10, 12 feet further down?
Was this in association with any sort of thing that was going on?
Well, the area we were in, It was an area that was well known to have produced phenomenon in the past and is currently continuing to produce some sort of phenomenon.
Even now?
Even now.
How does it manifest?
I believe that particular section, there were an area not too far away from there where ghost lights had been seen.
They all like to flow around at night.
iridescent type glowing objects that would be seen out there.
This was near a Civil War section of this particular cemetery.
A portion of it had literally washed away at one time because it was it was located on a hill and they had this sort of reinforced area so there were a lot of bodies that had been washed away too.
Oh boy.
It was very cold here.
Very differential readings as far as temperature was concerned.
All right.
Dale, hold tight.
We will be right back.
We're at the top of the hour.
You've got a Good rest, and I can use it too.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
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That's 1-800-825-5033.
Now, here again is Art Vell.
Well, once again, here I am.
To talk with Art Bell, from east of the Rockies, dial 1-800-825-5033.
That's 1-800-825-5033.
Now, here again is Art Bell.
Well, once again, here I am.
And glad to be here, too.
Dale...
Now, I'm going to get this right, or else.
Dale...
Kazmerick...
is my guest.
Ha ha ha ha ha!
He has a, actually gives tours in the Chicago area, into haunted areas, and we're about to deal him a question that I think is the biggie, and that is, What is a ghost?
So, that's coming up shortly.
Now, alright, I'm going to leave that photograph up on the website now for about another hour and a half, something like that.
And after that, I'll tell you what I'm going to do.
I'm going to turn on the camera system so you start getting live photographs.
And I'm going to isolate it to the camera that took that particular picture.
And I'm going to sit here with my watch and anything else I can think to do and try to cause a reflection that might duplicate what I've got.
That's a worthwhile experiment.
I'll do that maybe in an hour and a half.
Right now, and very quickly, before going back to Dale Kazmarek.
Kazmarek.
Oh, Kazmarek.
I've got to get that down.
A guest called, um, a private number here, uh, who was on the other night, and he was talking, you'll recall, about the use of the frontal lobe area of our brain.
We were discussing the fact that, uh, We don't use much more than about 10 percent.
Neil Slade was telling us ways that we might switch on the frontal lobe portion of our brain
and the areas of higher intuitive abilities and psychic abilities.
And he wanted to say...
say a word very quickly about what this photograph might show.
Neil, welcome to the program.
Thank you very much.
You've seen the photograph in question, I take it.
Right.
I certainly don't want to step on the toes of your guest tonight.
I respect and welcome any opinion that he might have on this.
But what I'd like to give you is the perspective from brain as to what I have a very, very
strong belief in what we're looking at here.
Thank you.
Just this evening I looked at the photo and my amygdalas automatically clicked forward into my frontal lobes and I instantly, logically and intuitively knew what I was looking at.
That's what the process was in my brain.
Your frontal lobes They're always on to a certain extent.
One of the things your frontal lobes do is they try to make sense of perplexing information.
They try to solve problems.
What you were dealing with that night was a mental threat which originates in your reptile brain.
On that evening it was thoughts and fears of Satanism.
And all the questions that this woman harlot, it was very a disturbing topic to you.
Now, in the same way that an old lady can lift a car off a person in an inhuman burst of strength in an emergency, we've all heard these stories.
Sure.
Your frontal lobes will occasionally try to release a burst of electrical chemical energy in a mental Emergency like this particular situation Okay It's sort of like when you put your hands out to protect yourself when you're being threatened Yeah, your brain does this electrochemically the same way and this electric electromagnetic radiation Which this burst which was produced by your frontal lobes?
Can be picked up by MRI and PET scans and in this instance?
Because you have your camera on all the time and since this was a particularly disturbing topic, the radiation from your frontal lobes was strong enough to cause an interference pattern in the video camera, which is also sensitive to electrical magnetic radiation.
You know, if you put a magnet up to a television tube where you can see the distortion in there.
Sure.
And if you look at the image, the the disturbed image portion of it
exactly, exactly occurs over that portion of your head which contains your frontal lobes.
So...
Because that's the only part of your brain that produces enough psychic energy
that can be picked up by a simple device like a video camera.
Well, what you have said makes sense.
And for those who heard your program the other night, and you described the three main areas of the brain, that indeed was the area that you said produced exactly this kind of thing.
Yeah.
And it doesn't occur in the back part of your brain.
The threat originates and is computed in your reptile brain.
Your reptile brain computes fear and negative thoughts.
That night, you were using, you know, there was a lot of negative mental activity because of the topic you were discussing.
Absolutely.
Which is, you know, of course, you know, you talk, when you think of Satanism and stuff, well, you're going to be using your reptile brain to compute that information.
And it was like, at a certain point, your frontal lobe said, enough, we need to protect ourselves from this.
And there was this It's a burst of frontal lobe activity, which you may not have solved your problem, but it was a protective measure.
I'm sorry, my frontal lobe started smoking.
That's exactly it.
In the same way that an x-ray is kind of fuzzy, if you ever look at an x-ray picture, they're not perfectly clear.
The image produced and the radiation from your frontal lobes is not a really perfectly sharp image.
Heat radiation, electromagnetic radiation.
And when I saw your picture, I mean, you know, I didn't even have to think about what it was.
It was just, you know, click, and then I said, oh, this is what it is.
All right, Neil, thanks a million.
I really appreciate the input.
Thank you.
Okay.
And take care.
We will, of course, have you on again.
That's Neil Slade, and he was talking to us about the brain.
Back to Dale Kaczmarek.
Haha, you see, I got it.
In just one moment.
Well, as a matter of fact, no.
Let us do that right now.
Dale Kaczmarek.
See, I'm getting your name right now.
Yes.
My question to you is a real doozer, and it's not an easy answer.
Dale, what is a ghost?
Well, a ghost...
My interpretation is a disembodied spirit of a once living person.
There are many reasons why that person's spirit has not moved on to the spirit world where it belongs.
There are many obstacles in its way.
Normally it is due to an untimely death or something such as a murder or suicide.
A person is here one minute and gone the next.
A perfect example of that would be the movie Ghosts with Patrick Swayze.
He was mugged, stabbed and actually killed by a mugger.
His spirits, he thought it was his real body, was running after this perpetrator to try to capture him.
When he came back he saw his body being held by his fiancée.
He was a ghost.
He was earthbound for a time.
There are two main categories, though, that I like to break down ghosts into.
For lack of a better term, I call them smart ghosts and dumb ghosts.
A dumb ghost would be, my interpretation of it, what's called a residual haunting effect.
In other words, a particularly tragic or traumatic event that has taken place, such as a murder or suicide, is then replayed over and over again, maybe at the same place at the same time, or maybe an anniversary date or something of that nature, like running a videotape in a loop over and over and over again, doing the same thing.
There's no real intelligence behind this.
Do we have souls?
I believe we do.
The eternally important question for me is whether some souls actually are trapped here on earth.
Or whether what we are observing is this endless tape loop replay, which is sort of a weak echo of the life that was, but not really the soul that's trapped endlessly, hellishly repeating whatever horrible end sequence occurred to it.
This is, for me, a very, very important question, and for everybody.
Well, that's where the second category of the ghost comes in, the smart ghost.
That's where you actually have interaction between the living and the person that is passed on, the deceased person.
You may have a communication.
You actually may be able to recognize that person as somebody you knew while he or she was alive.
There may be some sort of interaction verbally, even sometimes in touching of the body.
I like to call them visitation apparitions because they sometimes seem to come back to locations where they had a good time or they had happy memories.
A lot of these locations might be homes, for instance, that they had many happy memories.
That's why many people, many homes experience this type of haunting phenomenon.
And I do believe that there are actual souls or spirits of these people that sometimes Do not even wish to go to the next world because they're just frightened or they just wish to hang on to physical life or memories, emotions, things that have happened in the past rather than go on to something that's strange, unusual and maybe frightening to them as well.
Speaking of passed on, I may have destroyed my own website.
I can't bring it up.
We've done that a lot lately.
I noticed it wouldn't even come up right now.
So folks, if we murdered the website again, I'm sorry.
I don't know what to do.
The radio program, Dale, is growing faster than the website bandwidth is.
And we're in a good place, too.
Anyway, so...
So your answer really is, it could be, it may be both.
Yes.
It's very often, the most often reported type of visual apparition is simply the residual haunting.
Where there may be trace elements of this emotion or traumatic event that has sort of imprinted itself in the fabric of time and space.
And for some reason we don't understand the conditions or the The physics behind it, that it simply replays itself over and over again, like winding a tape through a loop, a constant endless loop.
There aren't that many, but there are some many examples of where there may be actual interaction between spirits.
I have heard there is scientific research going on now, Dale, that says that windows, crystals, Even things like wood, plastic, actually have memories.
Have you been hearing about that?
Oh yes, for quite a number of years.
Most often what we seem to encounter in our studies is family heirlooms, antiques, personal belongings, things that had sentimental value to that person.
Who was the owner of that person?
Sometimes psychics can pick up an object and tell you everything about that person who held that object.
It's called psychometry.
Absolutely.
I know a person who does it.
That's pretty much the same thing as having a ghost basically attach itself to a personal heirloom, an antique, or even, for instance, the whole house.
Do you know Daniel Brinkley?
Or know of him?
I don't know.
He was a man who was struck by lightning.
He was actually dead for 20, I think 26 minutes, flatline.
And when he came back, and he did come back, he had psychic abilities that you wouldn't believe.
Now, that was an instant shock to his brain, and over the years since that lightning strike, they have faded.
But he still has very, very strong psychic ability, and I had this man over to my home, I don't know, a few months ago, and without telling you what it was about, I'll tell you, I handed him a piece of paper that had been written to me, and all he did was touch it.
He described the person, he described their home, he described their car, he described what was around their home, and he did this absolutely, completely, accurately, And it stood the hair on the back of my neck up.
Now, that would seem to be the kind of psychic ability that is imparted to somebody through some sort of trauma, you know, to the brain.
But there are others who are natural and do it all their life.
Is that correct?
Yes, there are some people who are actually born with their psychic ability that it doesn't seem to fade.
It seems to actually get stronger as they get older.
Sometimes they have to fine tune it a bit, maybe going through developing classes of
some kind to develop their psychic abilities or attending classes in that manner.
But there are people that are actually born with the gift of discernment, the gift of
psychometry, clairvoyance, ESP, much more so than random chance would dictate.
Do you have any hint what brings on this kind of person?
Does it have to do, for example, with their parents?
Is there any commonality in the lives of people who demonstrate this ability?
It does seem to have something to do with your ancestors.
It may have something to do with heredity, because most often you do find entire families that are very psychic.
while others don't tend to have that same experience.
Whether it's in the genes, whether it's something in the chemical, biological,
the brain itself that's passed on from one generation to the next through genes,
I'm not sure, but it does seem to follow that pattern of being passed on from one generation to the next.
Perhaps you would be willing, obviously in all the years you've been investigating all of this,
you have no doubt run into some extremely interesting situations and stories.
Pick one out and tell us.
Okay.
The most unusual case that I had a chance to work on was one right here in Illinois, in a small town called Orland Hills, Illinois.
It began quite innocently By getting a call from a psychic that I do work with on a number of occasions, she told me of this home where fires were breaking out, where there was a sulfur smell, sort of like rotten eggs that would build up in this location, that the fire department had been called numerous times to come out here to determine what was going on in this home.
She wanted me to get involved, and we were both invited to the Orland Hills Fire Department in a closed meeting room.
And sitting in front of us were two state fire marshals that had over 60 years experience in combustible materials.
There was a chief of police, an arson expert from the local fire department, and a few other people had been involved.
What they had told us in this room, basically, and I'm not the kind of person that normally gets scared, but it did raise a few hairs on the back of my neck.
Because they had been called to this home well over 60 different times within a two or three month period for just those occurrences.
Fires breaking out, plugs that were plugged in to a microwave, literally the plug was melting in the wall.
This sulfur smell would just permeate the entire building to the point where it was, you'd have to get out of the house, it just was too nauseous.
That strong?
That strong.
This home was only a few years old at the time.
It was a brand new home in a brand new subdivision.
They tried every possible natural way to find out what was going on, including calling in Commonwealth Edison, the electric company.
They called in the gas company.
They called in the builders.
They called in people from all different areas.
To try to figure out what was going on.
See if there were power surges, subterranean gas that might have been causing this problem.
Everything was negative.
It was checking out to be perfectly normal.
Alright, we are at the bottom of the hour and we'll pick this up as we come back.
Well, the webpage revived itself.
So you can go up there and take a look at that photograph now.
It is back.
It was about a half hour there.
I just couldn't get in.
Probably net traffic.
It's www.artbell.com, and it's the studio cam shot you're going to want to look at.
Any analysis, opinion is welcome.
I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
I'm going to be playing a song called, The Man Who Made Me.
It's a song about a man who made me.
He was a man who made me.
Once again, here I am, Dale Kaczmarek, see I'm getting it down, is with us from near Chicago.
Dale investigates ghost stuff.
dial 1-800-618-8255. That's 1-800-618-8255. Now again, here's our...
Once again, here I am, Dale Kaczmarek. See, I'm getting it down. He's with us from near Chicago.
Dale investigates ghost stuff. In essence, I guess... If you try to look like the name, I'll ask him.
He's a ghostbuster.
I wonder if he is.
I wonder if he really is a ghostbuster.
That's a good question.
We'll ask him.
All right, once again, here's Dale Kaczmarek from Chicago, near Chicago.
Dale, you were telling us a story, and I'm sure you have many, many to tell, but I do want to ask you this.
You're an investigator.
Are you also what you would consider to be a ghostbuster?
One who goes in and rids places of these problems?
Well, in the strictest sense of the term, ghostbuster, I would probably say no, because if you compare that with what they did in the movie, I don't have their kind of equipment.
They don't actually, you know, try to grab them, carry them around and put them in this storage bin here.
What we attempt to do actually is to, first of all, thoroughly investigate the site, find out if there is something relevant to a haunting or ghostly phenomenon going on in the premises, and then bring along or bring with us gifted people such as psychics or clairvoyants who can then make some form of communication with the ghost.
Right.
Simply talk to the ghost, just like I'm talking to you, more or less, and convince that spirit that in fact it is dead, it doesn't belong here.
You know, we best just move on, just through his own accord, rather than use an exorcism or some sort of bizarre ritual to get that ghost out.
We try to simply talk to the ghost in some way to let them know that they don't belong here.
Hey buddy, you're dead.
You know, you should be moving away.
I once had a fellow on the show who claimed, and this is as way out as you can get, That he had modified, you know what a bug zapper is?
Yes.
He had several bug zappers arranged in some strange way that he claims he trapped a spirit.
Now, you said yourself that there are electromagnetic anomalies that seem to occur frequently around manifestations, right?
That's correct.
So, technically, One could imagine constructing a device that if you could cause a manifestation within it and turn on a strong electromagnetic field, if you're crazy enough to try this, you might actually, if the movement is electromagnetic, you might somehow manage to trap an entity.
What do you think?
Well, if that was to be done, it probably would have to be a concentric circle.
In other words, totally not just... It'd have to be three-dimensional.
In other words, a ghost would not be able to escape by going up, by going down.
Right.
It'd have to be totally encompassed, this ghost or this being.
We could do that.
I mean, I know enough about electronics to know that you could create a field, a very strong 360-degree magnetic field.
That's what we're talking about here.
And that you could activate it at the flip of a switch.
Now, I don't know if it would be a good idea to try it.
I'm just saying that technically it seems to me that if the mode of travel or manifestation is electromagnetic, that you might, you might trap it in that manner.
Would you, would you do that kind of an experiment?
Or would you say that doesn't sound like such a good idea?
It would be a very interesting experiment to try.
I would not rule that out, but again, there are several problems involved to begin with.
Number one, you have to be able to locate the ghost, find out where the ghost is, and then get that feel around that ghost.
Number one, if it's invisible, you're not going to be able to see it.
You might be able to track it with meters or other devices, but you might not be able to know exactly when this ghost is in this, you know, the... You could literally build a room A full room that would, or even go to a room where there are frequent manifestations and set up such a trap.
I just wonder if it would really be a good idea.
It's an interesting concept to think about.
It surely would answer a lot of questions that we've had about spirits from all along.
Number one, do they really exist, which I do believe they do.
And being able to get one, again, you have to know the frequency of this operation, what frequency that they're working on.
A lot of unanswered questions, but I think it's worth the scientific experimentation.
You worked in graveyards.
Do spirits remain near their deteriorating physical bodies?
That's a hard little thought.
Usually not.
And that's what I often tell people, that if I'll give them a scenario like if you died and came back as a ghost, where would you want to hang out?
Surely not in a graveyard.
That's why I believe most graveyards are not haunted.
I believe that most locations where ghosts are often seen or experienced are places that, again, that they recollect happy memories, where they had a good time.
This can be a business, this can be a restaurant, this can be a bar.
We even have haunted bowling alleys here in Chicago that are haunted.
Haunted bowling alleys?
Haunted bowling alleys.
Somebody who probably just missed a 300 game by one pin or something?
Could be.
That'd bring you back.
Tell me about a haunted bowling alley.
That's interesting.
Well, I can't give the actual name of the location out.
No, please don't.
I don't want to hurt anybody's business.
But I did work on a case once in a haunted bowling alley on the far southwest side of Chicago where Ashtrays would fly around where maintenance workers working late at night claimed to have had encounters where they would hear mumbled voices inside the offices that were locked already for that evening.
They would see the garbage can lid swing as though somebody had just plopped something in the garbage can.
There's nobody in this building.
The devices that waxed and oiled the lanes would turn themselves off and on midway through their track going through here.
Okay.
They were checked out.
They were not shorts.
The equipment was the perfect operating condition.
This went on for a number of years and then suddenly it just died out.
Suddenly just died out.
Is that a frequent occurrence?
In other words, do apparitions or ghosts or poltergeists or this kind of activity, does it suddenly frequently stop of its own?
Poltergeist activity is much more associated with a rapid deterioration and an abrupt stop
because you are dealing basically with again a person causing for the most part these objects
to move around through their own psychokinesis or mind over matter.
So when you are dealing with a real person such as a poltergeist case that person once
you find out who is moving the objects around with their own power of their mind, sort of
like a mental temper tantrum, you can get to that person and that person may simply
need some counseling or some help or something and the phenomenon may stop very abruptly.
In hauntings where you have an external force like a ghost or entity of some kind, these
things can sometimes last for just a few weeks, sometimes years and sometimes centuries.
There are reports still to this day in England of Queen Anne's ghost, Queen Anne Boleyn's ghost, and the ghost of King Henry VIII, and other very colorful characters that apparently haunt their castles which they once lived in.
Back centuries ago.
Alright, well, it seems like in all the years that I've done interviews about ghosts, when people are killed and die suddenly, murdered, hit by a car when they weren't expecting it, suicides, that sort of thing, that seems to bring some sort of action too, or the greater likelihood of something lingering on Earth.
And now, It seems to me, I don't know, I don't... You know something, Dale?
I don't know if there's a heaven and a hell.
I rather imagine there is.
But I can't think of anything that would be more hellish than to die and to remain here, seeing things progress and move on and seeing the people you know and the places you're familiar with and not being able to interact with them at all.
That would be pretty hellish, wouldn't it?
Oh yes, and that's, you know, sometimes the ghost that is involved with this scenario doesn't know how to get to their side, to cross over.
Or sometimes they will themselves back simply because they don't want to leave.
They want to stick around and they want to, you know, be helpful, be a part of the family even though they really can't.
And it's very saddening because they see their friends grow old and they die, and people It's a very hellish situation and that's why I believe that places that are haunted, the spirits that are in these homes, businesses, restaurants, bowling alleys, whatever, are making the noise, are making the attempts to attract attention to the fact that they are there.
That they are there.
They need some sort of help.
They're sort of reaching out the best way they can.
By scaring the people half to death sometimes, bring somebody in to finally show them the way out.
I've noticed that very often in investigating homes where I can talk to people on the phone, you can hear things crashing in the background.
You can hear the woman being hysteric saying, get over here, get over here, something's going on, get over there.
It's just quiet.
Because they got the person they wanted to get there, whether it be me or somebody else.
Alright, another thing.
Movie after movie after movie, Hollywood and ghosts, they get some of it right.
Young teenage girls seem to produce something around them.
Maybe it's, you know, the changes they're going through.
Maybe it's their incredible emotional state.
Maybe it's, I don't know what it is, you know, I'm stabbing in the dark here, but for some reason young teenage girls seem to manifest a lot of activity around them, poltergeist activity, that kind of thing.
How come?
Well, we don't really know.
There are a lot of possible explanations and a lot of this goes back to the personality of the individual.
If that person is very introverted, whether she be very self-centered, a lot of peer pressure, Very soft-spoken person, takes a lot of stuff in, doesn't let a lot of stuff come back out.
It's like overcharging a battery, just charging and charging and charging.
Eventually it's going to discharge, it's going to explode or something, and that's when you have this psychic explosion of polarised activity.
Going back to that case I was talking about earlier, all these things happened surrounding a 14-year-old girl.
Oh, really?
And she had to be in the room.
She had to be in the home for these things to happen.
But she wasn't near to where these things happened.
She was just in the home somewhere.
But she was removed from the environment.
They went to the grandmother's house to stay there for a while.
The phenomenon stopped very abruptly in the home, but then continued at the grandmother's house.
Small breakage of objects, things falling down, etc.
Was she in any way disturbed psychologically?
Do you know?
We don't know that for a fact.
We do know that this happened during a holy time around Easter.
These things seem to culminate around times of very holiness, Easter, Christmas, etc.
She was going to be coming into her first communion confession.
Probably a lot of, again, a lot of pressure put on her.
And I think this kind of just was like the straw that broke the camel's back and these things began happening.
The baseline of this whole thing was they had to tear the house down completely.
It was deemed unsafe to live in.
People were given a settlement.
They moved elsewhere because... There are laws, aren't there, in many states that if you have a haunted house, you must, in a sale, disclose that to the buyer or you've not made a deal.
Ninac, New York, perfect example of that.
A woman had moved into a house, put on a deposit, Later found out the house was inhabited by no more than six or seven different ghosts.
Right.
Took it to court, and it was a landmark decision for the woman.
She got her deposit back because the woman failed to disclose the fact that the house was well known to be haunted.
Well now, how... I fail to understand how there can be a legal precedent for that.
For somebody to get their money back because a place is haunted, You would think that legally, actually legally, you would have to establish that the haunting is real and not the figment of somebody's imagination.
And so you in effect then have a legal ruling that you're damn right this place is haunted, this person didn't disclose it.
I mean that's a legal precedent.
How do they, in court, how do they establish that?
I wish I knew.
It was convincing enough for the judge to rule in the favor of the defendant in that case and get her out of that home and get her deposit back.
So there must have been some sort of president that they put forth in front of the judge that convinced him to make that ruling.
That is remarkable.
And that law, I think, is present in many states, isn't it?
Yes, it is.
Uh, we are going to get the lines open here shortly and I'm going to allow people to ask you questions.
What would you say, I guess you investigate this kind of thing, what for you was the scariest moment you've had?
Oh, first of all, I should probably say I don't get scared too often.
But I will say one that still to this day at least means kind of tingling.
I was doing an investigation in a cemetery in Southwest City, Missouri called Evergreen Cemetery.
There were reports of a strange semi-transparent figure of a woman that would be seen there almost nightly.
I went there to investigate.
I figured it had to be some form of optical illusion.
Ghosts don't appear at the same time.
They're very spontaneous, very random.
Uh, I got there.
Could not find anybody to actually show me the location.
Went there myself.
Began looking around.
This is about maybe 8 o'clock in the evening, a summer evening.
This is almost throughout for another half hour, 45 minutes or so.
Began to see a strange mist beginning to form between a small tombstone and a tree.
Uh, wasn't ground fog.
Wasn't, uh, smoke.
It wasn't haze.
It wasn't the humidity in the air.
It began darting around rapidly between a tree and a tombstone.
Some parts were more translucent, other parts were more visually opaque.
I said, well, I must at least get this on film, see what I can maybe analyze it later.
Of course.
Snapped a picture of it, pulled the camera away from my eye, and the mist did not react or burn away or dissipate in a normal fashion as you'd think ground fog would.
The best way to describe it is you pull a cork out of a bathtub.
It just kind of spiraled down a little white tornado into the ground about 35 feet away from me and my bottom jaw kind of hit my heel at that point.
It spiraled into the ground?
Exactly.
When I got the film back, unfortunately nothing showed up on the film as far as the mist, but the entire area where this mist would have been on the film was sort of bathed in a kind of an eerie blue light.
It was very unusual for the film.
It was the only picture on the film On that roll of film that had anything unusual on it.
Yeah, but you saw this with your own eyes.
Exactly.
What, I mean, you must have, you stood there after you watched this thing swirl into the ground and felt, watched.
I mean, what did you think you saw?
Well, I wasn't sure.
It intrigued me and scared me both at the same time.
I wanted to kind of have, kind of sit down, rationalize.
I didn't want to jump to conclusions.
I still don't know exactly what I saw.
I guess in the strictest sense of the term, I guess it could be called a ghost because it was an unrecognizable form.
There was no shape to it.
It wasn't like an apparition.
It didn't have a form.
It was just a strange collection of cloudy gas.
All right.
Now there we go.
So I can't help it now.
The photograph that I've got up there, how was it different from that?
In substance?
It wasn't much different at all.
Really?
It was not much different at all.
Really?
It just might have been a larger mass, number one.
And it was in motion.
It was there, visible for, I would say, probably 30, 45 seconds.
Now, you've got to remember this photograph, though I, you know, of course, I didn't see it until I saw it in the photograph.
Right.
But that is a still photograph grabbed at that second of 1.26 and 21 seconds in the morning.
It could have been in some kind of motion.
Exactly.
I have no way of knowing.
But you're saying it was kind of like that?
Exactly.
That's how ghost photographs are very often taken.
You're basically, what you're doing with a camera, whether it be a video camera, a 35mm, an SX-70, or whatever it is, you're freezing a moment of time and space.
Right.
And then you can look at that moment that you just froze in, in your hand, and whatever's there isn't there.
It may have been there in a blink of an eye.
One second it was gone, the next second it was there.
Yeah.
Etc.
It's just, that's how many of these photographs are taken.
In a twinkling of an eye.
So really, a lot of your research has been in interpretation of these photographs.
Yeah.
Interpretation of photographs and evidence that we've collected during investigative work.
You've got a website, we've got a link.
How many photographs are up on your website?
I believe the current total right now is 12 or 13 that I have.
And these are some of the best ones.
I have a large collection.
I probably have about several hundred that I do have.
But I've tried to put the best on for the very beginning.
And most of these show either some form of human form, semi-transparent image, and there are some mists and other strange light formations that were captured with ordinary film.
Okay.
When we get back, maybe you can describe some of those for us.
And, you know, not everybody has a computer, of course.
So, we'll describe some, and the others, they can go up to my website, jump over to yours, and take a look, because that's what we're going to be talking about.
Dale Kaczmarek is my guest from an area near Chicago.
He's not a ghost buster.
He's a ghost investigator.
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