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Dec. 3, 1997 - Art Bell

02:23:09

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Father Malachi Martin

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	As you know, Father Martin, if you recall, I made a pilgrimage.
	I went to the Vatican.
	Yes.
	And I went to the Sistine Chapel and I did all the things that one does.
	And by the way, Father, it was very interesting.
	When we arrived at the Vatican, there was a massive, massive crowd there.
	And we were kind of looking around saying, wow, look at all the people.
	What in the world is going on?
	And somebody turned around and said, you mean you don't know?
	The Pope's going to be here in five minutes.
	And so we got to watch and listen to the Pope, which I thought was quite a treat.
	That was just very lucky.
	That was just lucky, if you want to call that luck, yes.
	True.
	Good point.
	Then we went to the Sistine Chapel.
	And though we did not get an opportunity to go to the Labyrinth beneath the Vatican, Father, I must tell you, the Sistine Chapel is in itself something of a labyrinth.
	Oh, it is.
	I have lain on my back looking at the ceiling for hours.
	After hours, when I could do that.
	Just looking at the ceiling.
	I fully understand.
	I fully understand.
	You come out of there, out of this long labyrinth with a crook in your neck because you've been looking up all the way.
	That's right.
	But here's what was really unusual, Father.
	My wife is a Catholic, as you know, Ramona, and as soon as we walked into the Sistine Chapel, the first thing we saw was this gigantic globe.
	And you know what was on the globe?
	It had all 12 signs of the Zodiac.
	I couldn't believe it!
	I couldn't believe it!
	I was so amazed that I had Ramona stand there and point to her birth sign on the globe, and I took a photograph and put it up on the website.
	It's up there right now.
	And I was going to come home and ask you, what in the world is something astrological doing in the Vatican?
	Well, actually, Art is a historical fact that several popes over several centuries always kept an astrologer.
	Really?
	Oh, yes.
	And the astrologer noted for his Catholicism, it was over the man, and they consulted him about the affairs of the state, whether it was advisable to do this, that, or the other, for hundreds of years.
	Somehow I'm a little lost here, Father, because I always thought that the only person a Pope would consult with ...would be God in prayer, and that the influence of the planets wouldn't enter into it.
	Well, I know.
	Strictly speaking, one would expect that, but they considered it one way in which God would advise them to do things.
	A wise Catholic astrologer would be studying the movement of the planets, and would see in the conjunction or the separation Or the rearrangement of the planets.
	Yes.
	An indication of the favorableness for this move or that move on the part of the Holy Father.
	No kidding.
	Yep.
	Do you know that tonight, as we speak, eight planets are in alignment?
	Yes.
	I was told that.
	I haven't got out to look at them because I really have something else to do.
	Much less pleasant watching the planets because I'm terribly interested in the stars.
	But I would love to see them.
	That is absolutely remarkable.
	Now what is the modern What is the Church's attitude with regard to astrology?
	It depends on the modern Church man.
	The Holy Father does not consult, has not taught and does not consult astrologers.
	There is nothing inherently against Catholic teaching or Catholic faith in astrology provided that you see it all beneath the hand of God.
	Because, again, the Catholic doctrine is that God can manifest his will and tell you what to do in your life through various material happenings.
	And one of them is the awakening of the planet.
	So it's something against faith.
	What would be against faith is one placed all one's trust in that and relied on that That seems to be the deciding factor about life and death.
	And that's forbidden.
	That, nevertheless, seems to be a very liberal interpretation.
	Yes, it is.
	Particularly for popes of many years ago.
	I know.
	For hundreds of years, Art.
	Hundreds of years, literally.
	Certainly, you could say that between, say, as a cliché date, 1200 and, say, middle of the 1600s, it was very common.
	Very common.
	Well, then I think the Church is to be applauded for not erasing history that perhaps today it would not rather recall.
	That's right.
	Actually, they don't emphasize it nowadays at all.
	And besides, you see, nowadays astrology has become the purview of people who don't believe in God.
	At least according to the Catholic faith, anyway.
	So they emphasize it less.
	And then there have been abuses Of astrology, of course.
	There are stories and novels and books and real factual histories about people who consulted the stars and therefore decided to go and assassinate somebody.
	Or to steal something.
	Sure.
	So that's where it goes over the edge.
	But as a means of knowing God's will, some folks wouldn't travel without their astrologer.
	Ah, that's really an amazing thing.
	Um, all right.
	It's been surprising, huh?
	There's no doubt about that.
	Indeed.
	And then there were a couple of other things that struck me and will be with me for all of the rest of my life.
	I think, no, I believe in God, Father, but I am skeptical about things that I can't touch and prove.
	I can't help it.
	However, while I was there, I also got to go to Bethlehem Yeah, and I saw the exact place where Christ was born and where the final crucifixion took place.
	And I must tell you that, along with my experience in North Africa, there are almost not words to describe the difference between talking about it, hearing about it all your life in Sunday school, early in Sunday school, but then suddenly being there And being in that spot, and you know that you are, you really, really know, and I can't even convey in words.
	I know you can't, and nobody can.
	I know exactly what you're talking about.
	There's no way you can tell, but there's something in that place, in those places.
	Oh boy, oh boy, is there ever.
	And you know, Art, look at it on a broader level for the moment.
	Take a broader view of it.
	If you go and visit the battlefield of Waterloo, in Belgium or the Alamo in Texas.
	Sure.
	Something gripped a few there.
	Some of the same sort of feeling but not nearly as strong.
	Oh no, not nearly as awesome, awesome is the word.
	I guess that's the best word you can come up with but I really haven't found words to
	convey to my audience and I really have tried.
	I'm sure you have.
	So I was, it was an amazing experience.
	You couldn't do it.
	It means it's rather difficult.
	You are a master of words.
	There really are some things that words, there are not words for.
	That's right.
	They go beyond.
	The feelings are too deep.
	And the experience is too real.
	In human words.
	It just, it's like, it drives something right through you.
	And I'm going to leave it at that because I really can't explain it.
	So anyway, that was incredible.
	I'm so glad.
	I'm so glad you saw those places.
	Then after I called you the other day, Father, and found out happily you were not dead, the next night, I think it was Sunday, on 60 Minutes, lo and behold, they put a picture of your book, Hostage to the Devil, on the screen in connection with a story they ran.
	That's right.
	And Dr. Olson, I think I had given you the first news of that, and I'll bet lots of other people have talked about it since.
	Since, yeah, but you were the first.
	You were the first to tell me about it.
	And my eyes popped out of the place when I saw it.
	All right, to give everybody some sort of background, this is with regard to a 16-minute story about a lady with multiple personality disorder, a Wisconsin woman.
	Um, who went to a doctor, and the doctor said she had 126 different personalities, distinct and different personalities, over many years he treated her, Dr. Kenneth Olsen, and the allegation is that he hypnotized her, and that he actually put these personalities into her, including the Bride of Satan, Teenage Boys, you name it, she had it, it cost hundreds of thousands of dollars in insurance money, Hypnosis again and again and again over years and years and years and then finally culminating in this psychiatrist performing an exorcism.
	I know, I know.
	They said, based on your book, hostage to the devil.
	Right, using the formula put in the back of that book.
	And, by the way, he thought, I guess, that it was a success, that it had successfully exorcised her.
	And so there's a lot of legal battling and lawsuits pending and so forth and so on over all of this.
	But I thought I would try and get your reaction to that.
	Well, I'll tell you my reaction, Art, is this.
	And don't be very surprised at this.
	My reaction is great fear for the safety of Dr. Olsen.
	I'll tell you why.
	The essence of agnosticism.
	Performing an exorcism is a clash between the exorcist and the demon allegedly possessing somebody who is to be exorcised.
	Yes.
	And it's not simply a prayer.
	And it's not simply a blessing.
	It is an actual clash.
	It's like a battle.
	Conversation.
	Like a battle.
	Yeah.
	You can only do that, according to the theory, the belief.
	You can only do that with immunity, because you're facing, allegedly, according to faith, you're facing an archangel, albeit a fallen archangel, called Lucifer.
	And that archangel has an intellect And resources far beyond anything any human being commands.
	And in order to tussle with him, tangle with him, or him, or whatever you want to call it, because he has no gender, in order to do that, you have to have the authority to say, what is your name?
	Why are you here?
	When did it start?
	And get out!
	And in order to do that, you have to have permission.
	And that's why we always counsel people.
	Never on their own bat to tangle with anything really demonic, because if you do, you're going to lose.
	And if I could talk, which I can't on account of privileged communication, I could tell very, very scary and awesome stories, frightening stories about psychiatrists who did try and exorcise without any authority.
	And became possessed themselves.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah.
	I mean, they tackled an enemy far stronger than they, with no immunity, no authority.
	Well, remember in past shows, Father, people have called and said, I have done exorcisms.
	Lay people, lay people.
	Yeah.
	And you have said, yes, it is possible.
	It is possible.
	But apparently very dangerous.
	It's very dangerous, and I don't know with what authority they did it.
	I do know one Lutheran pastor who has authority from his church and successfully exercises.
	It is a very rare thing.
	You see, the only proof is that the person in question is completely healed.
	Completely healed!
	And art, let me tell you, there is no healing more peaceful, more lovely, more joyous, More confident, more human than the healing of somebody by exorcism.
	It is so beautiful.
	It's like a sunrise on a calm upland meadow after a devastating hurricane.
	Well, the people who would defend the doctor, I'm sure, would say that he did this as a final resort.
	Oh yes, I'm sure.
	However, his detractors would say He's the one who put the 126 different personalities into her in the first place.
	The reality is something else.
	As you know, Arthur, you're a very well-read man, and the studies on this matter, the whole theory of MPDs, Multiple Personality Disorder, is very much for the psychiatric community, very much up in the air.
	Oh, very much.
	Yes, the suggestion being that under hypnosis, these are induced by the psychiatrist.
	That's right.
	And we do know nowadays, especially since the end of the Second World War, and the transport of Hitler's mind control experts to this country, we do know now that programming It can be very deep and very effective, and can really achieve what... Remember that book, The Manchurian Candidate?
	Of course.
	It can achieve that, and we do use it.
	All right, Father, stand by.
	We're at the bottom of the hour, and when we come back, I'm going to ask Father Malatai, as some TV shows says on CNN, the big question with regard to MBT, whether it relates in some way to exorcisms, and how you really know the difference between a personality instilled Father, I want to ask you what they call the big question here that I've worked up.
	and father i want to ask you what what uh... what they call the
	big question here uh... that worked up uh...
	how do you know but the father i think you probably done more exorcisms
	anybody else in this country I don't know.
	It's a very compartmented trade, if I can put it that way.
	Very compartmented profession.
	You don't communicate.
	I've just come across a marvelous exorcist who's been functioning in a certain area of the Midwest, and I never knew he existed.
	Um, it's just we didn't overlap.
	Understood.
	We never overlapped.
	So it's not talked about a lot, really?
	No, it's not.
	You don't communicate very much because laws of privacy govern everything in this matter because nobody who has genuinely been possessed and genuinely been cured ever wants anybody to know about it.
	Okay, well that's really where my question goes now.
	Apparently, The allegation is this woman had these personalities inserted into her through hypnosis.
	How do you delineate?
	How do you know that some of the people that you have not performed exorcisms on are not people who have been victims of this induced MPD?
	It's one of the things we have been alerted to from the mid-seventies part.
	Because we came across We've got very accurate information about the programmers that do exist, that did exist then and do exist today.
	And we form criteria, principles by which to judge that.
	And it's not a simple matter, but it can be done.
	And more than once, I have dismissed people who applied for exorcism, saying, no, no, no, there's no exorcism here at all.
	Hmm.
	Or who is your psychologist, or who is your, whatever, your guru, your channeler, or whatever it was.
	One would presume that usually prior to coming to somebody like yourself, people would have been to a psychiatrist or two or three.
	Usually they come to a psychiatrist, actually.
	A psychiatrist would write to you and say, dear Dr. Martin, dear Dr. Martin, look, I have a patient, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
	And he or she is the etiology of it all.
	Would you have a talk with them?
	Without discussing specific cases, Father, how many times have you begun to investigate a possible exorcism and then rejected it?
	Seven out of ten cases.
	Seven out of ten?
	Yep.
	Because, you see, there's also the question of disease.
	Some people, for instance, with Latourette Syndrome used to be confused with possession.
	Yes.
	And Latourette Syndrome just has a lot of the behaviorisms of possessed people, but it's not possession.
	And then there's consciousness chorea.
	And then there are forms of schizophrenia.
	Phases of schizophrenia.
	There are schizophrenia, but not possession.
	And then, by the way, there are forms of possession.
	Very like schizophrenia, and the demon hides behind the schizophrenic manifestations.
	Well, that's even worse.
	Yeah, it is.
	There's a double whammy there.
	So you've got to undo all that.
	And you can only undo all that if you have authority.
	You can't just do it because you say, well, okay, now tell me, what's the truth?
	Are you there or not?
	It's nothing like that.
	It's a far more... Are you allowed to discuss the tests?
	Yes, yes.
	If you want to start at the beginning, first of all, you ensure that there's nothing physical.
	There isn't a tumor in the brain.
	There isn't transgenerational insanity.
	There isn't alcoholism.
	There isn't a drug addiction.
	You must assure yourself of all those things.
	If there is, is it masking something else?
	Or is it simply that alone?
	First of all, you must check them physically.
	They must be checked physically.
	Because there are all those physical manifestations out.
	And then, having done that, you check them psychologically.
	Not by psychoanalysis exactly, but competent psychologists must examine them, talk to them, examine them anyway.
	Even if they can't talk to them, sometimes they refuse to talk.
	And they must make up their minds if it's some form of psychosis or neurosis or something psychological or something that's indefinable and that has no explanation in the diagnostic manual for psychiatry.
	In that case, then, the attitude is, OK, let's try exorcism.
	And then you start off formally into exorcism.
	And that means then talking to the person in question, or to the people who know them, if it's a child, or a young person, or a husband and a wife, etc.
	People who know them, and finding out how they've lived, and when it started, and what happened, and what displeases people.
	Why have they come to you?
	What has the psychiatrist said?
	If they come to a psychiatrist, usually the psychiatrist will tell you what he or she has found out about them, and say, this is the baffling thing about it, and this is why I turned to you, on a religious plane rather than on a psychoanalytic plane, a psychological plane, a psychiatric plane.
	And therefore you eliminate, you eliminate possibilities of disease, physical disease, and you eliminate the possibility of hoax, and you eliminate the possibility of something to do with insanity or psychological Uh, irregularity of some kind or other.
	Okay, but once all of that is gone, and... Then, then you make an appointment, start your exorcism.
	And, um, it, uh, actually, uh, once you start into something like that formally, having arranged everything in the usual way, and I can describe that in a few sentences to you, within ten minutes or twenty minutes, you know you're dealing with possession.
	That quick?
	Oh, yeah.
	Because, you see, the power of an exorcist, if he has authority, the power of the exorcist is such that it evokes a response.
	It evokes a response.
	And the battle begins.
	The battle begins.
	If he is skillful, he can be fooled.
	He can be deceived.
	Have you been?
	No, but I've assisted in exorcisms when I was younger, where the person was baffled.
	Outwitted.
	In other words, the strength of your faith alone, even if you have absolute faith, might not be enough.
	You could still be outwitted.
	That's exactly it.
	That's an interesting term.
	In other words, the strength of your faith alone, even if you have absolute faith, might
	not be enough.
	You could still be outwitted.
	That's exactly it.
	You've got it.
	That's exactly it.
	You can be outwitted by a cleverer mind and a quicker intellect and a more resourceful
	intellect, which also is probably acquainted with you, the exorcist, to a certain extent,
	and therefore knows your weaknesses and knows what to tap to evoke false judgments.
	That's really quite remarkable to consider, because I suppose the purist would suggest that an absolute rock-solid faith would be sufficient, or should be sufficient, with God's power behind you.
	But actually, there are other aspects, including wit.
	In other words, that you not be fooled by somebody brighter than yourself.
	That's right.
	Intelligence.
	Intelligence.
	Nothing can beat intelligence when it gets down to brass tacks.
	I'll fight like this because it's a real struggle.
	You see, we humans, as such, we are inclined to, not to fight exactly, but we are inclined to be very fascinated by some intellectual problem.
	And we can be lulled into accepting a situation where We fall under the influence of a superior intellect, because usually, not always, but usually the demon has a superior mind compared to us.
	Usually.
	Usually.
	Well, that really must make you think several times as you go into an exorcism.
	It does.
	Because it is possible, and it's happened, hasn't it, Father, that exorcists have gone And haven't come out, they've died.
	That's right, they haven't.
	They've come out of it and died.
	Or they haven't come out of it and they've died.
	Or they've come out of it possessed.
	And possessed in a very, very procratic way.
	I mean, worn out.
	Useless.
	What generally, when that occurs, what does the church do?
	Well, once upon a time when church men, bishops in other words, And the prelates of the church, when they really were in charge of this, because nowadays they're not.
	A lot of them don't believe in it at all.
	But when they had a regular system and a method of taking care of this aspect of life, they generally gave them very easy jobs as parish priests or in institutes.
	To make it easy, because these men, there's no doubt about it, but they lost their lives.
	So the church took care of them for the rest of their lives?
	Yes, it did.
	Very mild and compassionate with them.
	And today?
	Today, well, today, first of all, there are far fewer exorcists than ever before.
	In a lot of dioceses, for instance in Detroit, there is no formal exorcist at all.
	So if you want to have an exorcism in that area, you have to go to the cardinal in charge and say, listen, Bishop so-and-so of such-and-such a diocese has an exorcist.
	May he come in and do it?
	Because he can't do it in somebody else's diocese unless he has authority and permission.
	And it becomes very awkward then.
	Sometimes the bishop says no.
	Sometimes the bishop says yes.
	Sometimes the answer is very peculiar.
	A bishop who is not respected very much for his catholicity is quite willing to experiment.
	It's very funny.
	You never know what's going to happen.
	So it could be in this day and age, Father, that a priest who would perform an exorcism and would come out of it basically a vegetable would not be taken care of by the church?
	No, would not be taken care of.
	His family takes care of him or he goes to a home.
	I know one or two who ended up on a state farm.
	It's a grim affair.
	It's a grim affair nowadays.
	All right.
	I've got something I need to ask you about.
	I do a lot of different things on the air, sometimes foolish things.
	I doubt that.
	Oh, I do.
	I do.
	I wanted to talk to a witch.
	A broom riding, I said a broom riding.
	A broom riding witch.
	Yeah, you know, the real McCoy, a real witch.
	And so I went on a witch hunt.
	And I found this young lady who called herself Harlot.
	And I interviewed this young lady.
	And it turns out she called herself a witch, Father, but what she really was, was a Satanist.
	I interviewed her over a period of, I don't know, about four hours or so, and trust me, she was the real McCoy.
	She scared me to death, and full of Hail Satans and all that kind of thing.
	Extremely serious.
	At first I thought she wasn't serious, but trust me, she was.
	She was married to a man who killed her daughter.
	He knew, or she knew, that this was coming.
	And toward the end of this interview, this four-hour interview, I was mind-blown.
	And I said, you know, has it occurred to you that you obviously, willingly, are going to go to hell?
	And she said, yes, I know.
	I accept that.
	I look forward to that.
	I said, but your daughter, your innocent young daughter, who was murdered, I can't remember.
	I was like three or four.
	What about her?
	She won't be with you."
	And you know what she said?
	She said, No, you're wrong.
	Because I knew it was coming and before she was killed, I took steps to ensure she would
	be in hell with me.
	And that stopped me cold.
	At what age was your daughter when she was killed?
	I can't remember.
	I was like three or four.
	Young.
	Well, the terrible thing about it is, is a, a general remark, is that children, through
	their parents, can be made belong to a demon.
	They can?
	Through their parents.
	How can that be, Father?
	In a world that I guess I don't properly understand.
	Yeah, it's difficult to express it.
	But we have cases.
	We have frightening cases of it.
	And by the way, we've also got cases where the parents, Satanist worshippers, Luciferians really, and generational Luciferians, that is the Rowanian family, they tried to do the same to their children and failed.
	Some children accepted it, some didn't.
	Well, that would imply an age of understanding, but... Yes, it's extraordinary, the understanding they have, though, Art.
	It's frightening, at the age of three and a half, four.
	It's astounding, in certain cases.
	In other cases, no, they're dull.
	They're like little children, which they are, and they don't... there's no harm done.
	But there are cases, and... There's some part of me, Father, that just can't grasp this, that an innocent child, Could be literally taken to hell by the mother in this case.
	She's to be innocent.
	She's to be innocent, you see.
	Actually, when you think of it, there have been cases in history where children of an age, a tender age as we say, three and four, turned out to be very willful.
	They're rare cases, I know that.
	They're very rare cases.
	But it does happen.
	But even under our laws, a child of three or four could never be charged with, held responsible for in any way, what some child at that age would do.
	That's right.
	I'm sure you get this kind of question all the time, but how could a merciful God allow this to occur to a child that young?
	How could this woman's will Make that happen.
	I have no answer to that.
	I do know it happens.
	I do know that there's full consent on the part of the child.
	I do know that they have a development of will and mind that frightens you when you come across it.
	You know you're in the presence of a tiny body which is as developed as your will.
	Your adult will.
	Although not with experience.
	And it's a very frightening thing.
	Boy, it's a scary world we live in.
	You know, I sort of have expected you to say, don't worry, that child is not in hell.
	Well, as to who finally ends up in hell, that is something reserved to God.
	We don't know.
	And she, the mother, may have thought she made quite sure about it.
	She may not have had, because the final decision is not hers, it's God's.
	Yes, but your answer is she could have done it.
	Oh, yes.
	Wow.
	All right.
	Father Malachi Martin is my guest.
	Hold on, Father.
	You've got a good break here, and we'll be back after the top of the hour.
	You know, I guess that's the answer I didn't want to hear.
	That was quite an interview.
	Anyway, we'll leave it at that, and I'm going to have to take this one over.
	Father Malachi Martin will be right back.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	Here once again is Father Malachi Martin.
	Father, welcome back.
	Thank you.
	I've got a really hard question I'm going to ask you, hard for me.
	But first I want to ask you, in previous programs you and I have done, We have talked not just about people possessed requiring exorcism, but people in a different category, people that you have called perfectly possessed.
	Now, frequently these people are very successful, have a great deal of money and influence and power.
	usually yes and arm there are many of them and you said when you walk down
	the street you you know the money you see it Yes, you always do.
	Yes, they know you.
	They know you?
	Yes.
	In what manner would you know this person?
	Can you put words to it?
	I know it's one such a common word to it, but it's the unseen signals.
	It's like you sense that they sense you are both totally alien to each other.
	I'm going to go ahead and close the window.
	Totally alien to each other.
	It's beyond hate.
	It's beyond hate even.
	Sorry, Arthur, we're interrupting you.
	It's beyond hate, Ethan.
	It's...
	It's...
	It's total alien.
	Nothing in common at all.
	And it's not a teeth-gritting, shivering thing.
	No, it's not.
	I don't know if ever in your life, Art, you were in imminent danger of being killed.
	Not of dying.
	A lot of people have, like myself with a heart attack, two heart attacks, etc.
	That's of dying, but of being killed.
	There were only twice, two times in my life, Which we can talk about some other time, and not to be a divic at the conversation too much, when I could have been killed.
	Killed.
	Literally.
	Right.
	But then when you are in that, when it's certain that unless something happens, you are going to be killed, a strange calm comes over you.
	Because then it's sure.
	You can't do anything about it.
	You can't escape.
	You can't get out of it.
	And unless something happens, you're going to be killed.
	You're not going to die.
	You're going to be killed.
	It's a strange calmness.
	It's a cold reality.
	And it's beyond the shivering cold.
	That's the feeling you have when you recognize them and they recognize you.
	You know it's a cold reality and it's beyond hate.
	It's total asianation.
	Okay, the perfectly possessed person, if I understood correctly your explanation before, is a person who, in fact, has made a pact with the devil to be successful, to get what he wants in the world, whatever reason, maybe even to get a woman.
	Who knows for what reason he's made a pact with the devil.
	That doesn't make him perfectly possessed.
	It just puts him in possession.
	Perfect possession is something beyond that.
	But I mean, he's utterly satisfied with his deal.
	Oh yeah, completely.
	Completely.
	The reason I ask is as follows.
	I have been in the radio business for 25, 30 years.
	And like many people in radio, for many of the early years, I struggled and, you know, about half starved to death like people do in radio.
	I mean, that's the way it is.
	And it's been a passion for me without question.
	And like everybody else, or maybe unlike so many others, I have been very fortunate and in recent years my career has just skyrocketed.
	Well, thank God.
	But I've got to tell you I don't ever recall any time that I said that I'd give anything.
	I'd give my soul or anything like that.
	I don't recall a time like that.
	No, I'm sure you didn't.
	But since I've had this much success, there have been some times, particularly I must say since I heard you describe the perfectly possessed, when I have worried, did I do something mentally?
	Did I make some pact that I'm not consciously recalling?
	I worry constantly.
	Let me make a remark about that.
	Perfect possession is consequent on a very conscious step, consciously taken step.
	It's not something that's implicit.
	To contrast, It makes a contrast.
	We now get young people, 20-somethings or 30-somethings in age, and they do come and say, look, I made a pact with the devil because I needed this job, I needed this woman, I really wanted to marry her, and I wanted to get this job abroad, and I wanted to get this loan, and now I can't get rid of it.
	That's something else.
	They're simply very stupid and foolish, and generally they can be helped.
	And it's a thing they regret.
	Be perfectly possessed through a certain graduation.
	It's a gradual thing.
	It's not suddenly overnight.
	The devil doesn't appear in the morning with a scroll and say, find this in your 50 years of happiness, may you come to hell with me.
	The Moustian picture, you know, Aristopheles.
	Yeah, Hollywood.
	That's right, and Goethe's play, Faust.
	It's not that.
	It's a gradual thing where the person slowly but surely see He concedes, surrenders their will, every fiber of their will, and therefore of their being, and acquiesce closely in it, and are rewarded by their master, and utterly conscious.
	There's nothing implicit about it.
	It isn't slid by them.
	You're saying I would know it if that was the case?
	Oh yes, you'd know it a mile away.
	You'd know it a mile away.
	I think that it is a malady suffered by many people who are successful.
	They don't fully understand the nature of their success.
	And sometimes it seems like there are other forces at work.
	In other words, you question your own success, and that's one of the things ever since talking to you that I've been worried about.
	Actually, you see, there's no doubt about it that evil, the evil around us, because there is evil around us as well as good, does make inroads in us through pride and vanity and desire and ambition and lust.
	And those make inroads in us, and that does prick our conscience.
	There's no doubt about that.
	But the total surrender and acceptance of luciferian being, because that's what takes place in the perfectly possessed, that is something that cannot be done implicitly or overnight or by accident or be slipped into your life without you knowing it.
	Oh no.
	I think it's, you struggle, you know a lot of people are just hearing this show and me for the first time think, uh-huh, an overnight success.
	Well, I'm an overnight success that's been at it for about 30 years.
	Of overnights.
	Nevertheless, though, the real success did come recently, in the last couple of years, and it has been absolutely astounding, and I really, really have been worried.
	I mean, look at it from my vantage point, looking on the outside in at you, it seems to be the logical progression of a very devoted and intelligent career in radio, and you've reached a culmination.
	Now, now, there's this part about it.
	Nobody achieves the amount of affiliated associates that you have, and the name you've got, Nobody reaches that without a special destiny from Christ.
	Because not everybody does it.
	And you have a profound influence on millions.
	Millions.
	And that means that you, from this point of view, as a radio man, that you are working on universal lines.
	That affects the macro-government of people's souls, and that's a responsibility.
	It really is.
	I know.
	For me, that's the telling point.
	Sure, somebody can work like a dog, work their little bottom off, as they say, and not get to where you are.
	But you got there, and that was because your destiny was that you were to do that.
	Given your talents and given your will and given the opportunities which were given to you.
	Obsession would be a good word.
	I'm obsessed with what I do.
	I love it.
	Since we're talking in the context of exorcism, obsession is a professional word with us.
	I wouldn't use it at all.
	Absolutely devoted.
	Because obsessed is something else.
	Close to possessed.
	Obsessed in that good sense.
	Not even the Calvin Klein obsession.
	If I could make a joke.
	Yes, I could use a joke.
	But I know it's a question of destiny.
	De facto, your destiny before you were born, before you were conceived, before your parents were married, was such that you would achieve this eminence.
	And apparently, it fits into God's plan.
	And I'm not saying that to butter you up.
	I'm not buttering you up at all.
	I'm loading on your shoulders, broader though they may be, a responsibility that ain't easy, because He will look you straight in the eye, Art, one day, when you pass over, and say, Now tell me, Art, how did you really do?
	I worried all the way.
	I worried all the way.
	You know, you discussed the responsibility.
	I worry all the time about the responsibility.
	As a matter of fact, I don't think that somebody in my position should have as much influence as I can have.
	It worries me all the time.
	I know.
	Well, I'm sure all the other eminent men in various fields say the same thing, and without Breaking confidences.
	You speak about me as having worked with two popes.
	And I did.
	And I've worked with very eminent men.
	And behind the scenes, the best of them used to shed tears over their weaknesses.
	Really?
	And over their fears.
	Yeah.
	And then straighten the hump in their shoulders as they see them march ahead.
	That's it, all right.
	That's it, all right.
	Let me read you this from the UK News.
	This just came in today from the United Kingdom News.
	It appears that some of those who have passed over to the spirit world are unwilling to be kept from the pleasures of the flesh.
	Listen to this.
	A Blackpool woman called a priest, two psychics, and a Mormon missionary to try to rid her of a ghost that she claimed regularly sexually attacked her.
	The attacks began in nineteen ninety four when she felt something climbing
	into bed with her she claimed it pulled off the towel she was wearing about
	her head and said it was going to make love to her
	uh... then she felt a vile and quote sensation
	like tiny needles trying to pierce my skin and quote
	what what does that sound like to you
	well i'll tell you uh...
	coincidentally coincidentally
	i'm dealing with at least two cases
	of people one male one female
	who are assaulted uh... mainly in bed
	and I'll see you next time.
	And the assault is never pleasant, but it is sexual.
	And there's no doubt about it.
	There's demonic activity around them, and they've let themselves in for it.
	They let themselves in for it?
	Yes, they did.
	They made mistakes.
	They made errors.
	And they have to pay for it.
	And they are paying for it, thank God.
	And they are doing penance, and they're taking good direction.
	But they have to liquidate.
	And though it may sound funny to you, not funny, but it may sound peculiar to you, I keep saying to them, look, it's far better that you liquidate here your guilt than that you do it in purgatory.
	How do you liquidate here your guilt?
	By this, that if in this life you get suffering, either physical, physical and mental suffering, I don't consider such a thing as physical suffering without mental suffering, but anyway, if you do that And you have the grace of God, and you offer it up in union, but this is Catholicism, in union with the pains of Jesus, the Savior, whose pain did save us, then you do merit to liquidate the punishment due to your sins.
	Penance.
	Actual suffering, mental and physical.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	When you haven't got pains and aches, and I normally have a very healthy body, So if I want to do penance, I've got to fast.
	You know, you have to devise means of not hurting yourself, but depriving yourself of creaturely comforts, which are perfectly legitimate.
	Because there is, Christ himself said, these demons are cast out only by prayer and fasting.
	And this is a tradition in Christianity, And by the way, in Islam too, and in Judaism, but we're talking about Christians, about Catholicism in particular, it is their tradition that by fasting, and by doing penance, you do get rid of demonic influence, and you do also do penance for your sins.
	And there's no doubt about it that if you have a horrible cancer, say a multi-local cancer, in your skull, in your brain, You suffer the pains of it.
	Yes.
	You can liquidate whatever guilt is due to sin, even though the sins themselves are forgiven, there's always some punishment due to it.
	That's the doctrine of Catholicism, and it was lost in the Reformation.
	And yet, Father, people come down with these horrible cancers that give them horrible deaths all the time, and sometimes it seems like the very best people I know, I know.
	I see it every week of my life.
	So then how does that fit in?
	Well, it fits in the sense that each one is different, each person is different.
	I've never found two patients reacting in the same way.
	But it's always a question of how they will take it, as the will of God or as simply an affliction, and they count it as a curse.
	And they can, though.
	They can count it as a hidden blessing.
	Father, we are once again at the bottom of the hour.
	So just rest a little bit.
	Boy, it just flies by.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	Anybody have a sense of humor out there?
	The devil went down to Georgia, he was looking for a soulless deal.
	He was in a bind, but he was way behind, he was willing to make a deal.
	When he came across this young man sewing on a fiddle and playing it hot.
	And the devil jumped up on a hickory stump and said, Boy, let me tell you what.
	I get a few bits of noise, but I am a fiddle player too.
	And if you dare to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you.
	Now you play a pretty good fiddle, boy, but give the devil his due.
	I bet a fiddle of gold against your soul, cause I think I'm bettered you.
	The boy said, My name's Johnny and it might be a sin.
	But I'll take your bet, you're gonna regret it, cause I'm the best he's ever been.
	Father Malachi Martin is my guest from Manhattan.
	And Father, I have interviewed many people.
	People who claim to do past life regressions.
	Yes.
	I have interviewed many new age types who claim that they have had near-death experiences, that there is no such thing as hell, that nobody ever goes to hell, and that in all of their regressions and the thousands of regressions they've done, they've never encountered Well, let me tell you, I've got an article here from the London Telegraph and I want to read you a little bit about it and ask you about it.
	Quoting, terrifying accounts of gravely ill people who claim to have been dragged to the very gates of hell by demons are now to be studied scientifically for the first time by a British psychologist.
	The existence of so-called near-death experiences, or NDEs, In which dying people report having mystical sensations before being resuscitated, is now widely accepted by doctors and scientists.
	Their cause is unknown, but they typically involve a feeling of deep peace, followed by a sensation of floating up through a tunnel, toward a bright light, and into a beautiful kingdom.
	We've all heard that.
	Continuing, but now it is becoming clear that for some people, NDEs are far from blissful.
	Instead of a feeling of floating upwards, they report being pulled downward toward a pit inhabited by demons.
	The experiences of Evelyn Hazel, a London-based art historian, as she fought for life against meningitis are typical.
	Quote, I had reached a critical stage in the illness and I was hovering between life and death.
	I was aware of being involved in an intense and very real struggle for my life.
	Uh, she told the Telegraph, continuing the quote, a three-legged being, rather like the Isle of Man symbol, was pulling both my legs down to infinite depths.
	And I knew, without any doubt, that if I relaxed and I gave in, I would be dead.
	I believe this struggle went on for some considerable time, and eventually I managed to break away from whatever it was pulling me down.
	And so they're doing actual scientific studies now, Not on the typical light and light beings and relatives greeting you in tunnel stories, but on people who went the other way.
	Hell is a real place?
	Yes, a real place in the sense that it is a place.
	that has a uh... if the everyplace ever where you know if i think
	if you say peru the real quickly where is it
	uh... it's got a real location real well we do not know the
	exact location of hell or i didn't mean a geographic location of the room
	so i have a real into the real place if it is we don't know the geographic location of heaven either
	uh... now we don't We don't.
	That's the distinct thing.
	But I guess my question is, hell is as real a place as heaven?
	Yes.
	As real.
	As real.
	And so is purgatory.
	In between.
	It's as real.
	Now, it is impossible to deny the fact, because so many people have had Near-death experiences, NDEs, of both kinds.
	It is impossible, we can't explain it exactly, but it is there.
	It does take place.
	The similarity between the NDEs is amazing.
	It does point to some unity caused by one thing, one particular experience that they all have had.
	And the demonic also.
	The big difference, Father, is that people who have had an experience like this lady don't talk about it.
	They don't talk about it.
	I mean, sure, if you go to a place of light and love and you realize that you would be in heaven if you really pass on, fine, you can talk about that.
	But if you've been to hell, you're not really likely to... You don't come back and tell us about it.
	Not really.
	Unless you come back.
	There have been cases of possession.
	Where damned souls do speak.
	Where damned souls speak?
	Yeah, do speak through the demon.
	But that's a question of, there are very, very peculiar cases, and there are very convoluted cases, and there are cases where people make special pacts with the demon.
	They're very rare, but they do come, they do, they do come back.
	At least they're allowed to talk, communicate.
	It's all very mysterious, and you stay away from it as much as possible as an exorcist.
	But it does come through at times, and it's a very disturbing experience, and it never leaves you.
	Father, I would imagine a lot of priests have, even themselves, in their lives, moments of doubt, moments of doubt about their own... Very many.
	You are absolutely correct.
	I would think, though, that doing what you have done, Doing exorcisms must enforce your own faith in a way that the average priest will never have enforced.
	That's right.
	That's right, it does.
	There's no guarantee that you're going to succeed completely and persevere and go to heaven, but there's no doubt about it, it does reinforce it because you're up against it.
	You're up against the ultimate in evil.
	And the central experience for any exorcist who has done exorcisms, even one exorcism, but anyway, exorcisms in general, is this.
	It is that memory burnt into you of total malice.
	Total malice.
	And it's very hard for the normal, even hardened criminals They love somebody, their child, or their woman, or their mother, or their country.
	But to come across a mind which is total malice, nothing but malice, is something appalling.
	As I say, what it does to you is it freezes you.
	I'm sure it does.
	It freezes.
	And that is something which does make you immediately think of God's beauty and God's compassion and God's love.
	And of nice, soft things, and of eternal peace, and compassion, and holiness, and goodness.
	It certainly confirms all that.
	It sends your soul into a wild dance towards God.
	Well, I would imagine you've had lots of opportunities to see young priests assist you in exorcisms, and how did they come out of that, generally, first time around?
	First time round they come out shaken, and generally they vomit, and sometimes they're incontinent.
	You can't keep it in them.
	They sizzle, they're alive!
	You know, we laugh because it's embarrassing.
	In fact, the first time I assisted an exorcist in the United States, I was in bed.
	I was called up by an exorcist who said, Malachy, my assistant has collapsed.
	Please come over and help me out.
	It was in the Bronx.
	In the Bronx?
	Yep.
	And he had, the young man had, but after it's a very unnerving in the beginning.
	Very unnerving.
	This is probably a very frivolous question, but I'm curious.
	Having done so many exorcisms, is there any geographic sense to exorcisms in the sense of more, for
	example, in large cities.
	I mean there you are in New York City is the biggest.
	Are there more by percentage do you think in the big cities than there are in the...
	It's, I'm sure that it will not meet with the approval of a lot of people, but I can
	pinpoint various cities and various areas in the USA, Canada, and in Europe where...
	There are a disproportionate number?
	A disproportionate number, where even of that kind flourishes.
	It's a funny thing.
	Can you name a few?
	I mean we're not going to really harm anybody by naming a few.
	So I think, for instance, that there's a plethora of...
	Of such things in Geneva, Switzerland.
	Geneva?
	Geneva, Switzerland.
	Neutral Geneva?
	Neutral Geneva.
	I think that, um, and I hope that we don't get assaulted for having said this, but it does seem that Louisville, Kentucky.
	Louisville?
	Has a fair share, more than, say, As far as we know, Santa Fe.
	And then there are areas in Manhattan where I wouldn't want to live.
	And so not always in Avenue A, B, and C. Or in the Bronx, for that matter.
	There are areas, there's no doubt about that.
	Because the presence of evil entertained I live right over a mountain from Las Vegas.
	It means that you have a diabolic presence, demonic presence.
	That's all about it.
	I live right over a mountain from Las Vegas.
	Now Las Vegas is always generally portrayed in the media and elsewhere as the devil's
	playground.
	Yeah, I think that's romanticizing it.
	In my whole experience, Las Vegas never stood out as a home of the devil's art.
	No kidding?
	So in other words, it doesn't even stack up against Louisville?
	No, it doesn't stack up against Louisville.
	It doesn't stack up against Chicago.
	It doesn't stack up against Vancouver.
	Wait a minute, Vancouver you say?
	Yes, it doesn't stack up at all.
	Talking about the incidence of diabolic interference, it just doesn't.
	Do you have any thoughts on why there are hot spots like this?
	I do not know.
	I do not know.
	A few years ago, no more than a few, back in the 70s, we tried to create a profile of the possessible person.
	Sure.
	And a profile of the places.
	But we found out that there was no profile.
	It was purely random.
	Neither education, nor sex, nor faith, nor culture, nor riches, nor poorness, poverty or riches.
	Success or failure, black, white, or sky blue, pink, yellow, or red, or green, whatever the color of your skin was.
	So then possession is random?
	It appears to be random.
	It appears to be random.
	Yeah, because, listen, Arthur, like you, I know very naughty people.
	I mean, I know people who couldn't stand the glare of publicity on their business methods.
	Sure.
	And I know, and I have come across ladies of the night.
	Yes.
	Big difference.
	Oh, huge difference.
	ones which I'll never forget being confronted in New York, which I'll tell you about if
	you want to.
	And I've known a few people from the mafia who certainly, you know, were rough diamonds
	and were used as soldiers.
	But they were completely naughty people.
	They weren't possessed.
	Big difference.
	Oh, huge difference.
	Huge difference.
	Can a prostitute go to heaven?
	Sure.
	I remember I was coming home late at night with my brother in the pelting rain.
	And we were both drenched already, but we had to walk.
	And we met a prostitute.
	We were both clerics, by the way, but we were muffled up with raincoats and hats and mufflers, etc.
	Sure.
	And my brother, who's now gone to God, said to a woman, don't you not know that you're You're putting your eternal soul in danger.
	Bill was very contentious.
	My brother is a good man.
	And she pulled up her dress and pulled out a rosary beads and a prayer book out of her stocking and said, Father, look, I say these every day.
	I have five little Baptists which a priest gave me.
	Pray for my soul.
	Wow.
	Wow is right.
	Wow is right.
	Five little bastards that priests gave me?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	That's why I'm baking in the streets.
	A real problem for the church, isn't it?
	It is a real problem.
	And inevitably, in a church that enforces celibacy as the rule, you're going to have the difficulties.
	And we've had a terrible rush of pedophilia in the dioceses of the USA.
	And in Canada, by God.
	And we're not finished yet.
	Still going on.
	The organization of the Roman Catholic Church, my church, has been shaken up and hasn't settled down to anything regular yet.
	It hasn't made up its mind about things.
	A good majority, a small majority, but a good majority of American bishops would wipe out the whole celibacy thing.
	A lot of people get married.
	You don't agree with that, do you?
	Well, I'll tell you something, Art.
	I can only speak from the point of view of experience.
	I was a chaplain for the U.S.
	Air Force in Turkey.
	And I remember we used to go to the radar domes back in the good old days of the Cold War.
	Oh, yes.
	That they had winged Russia with in the Black Sea.
	Yes.
	And I was always driven by Air Force officers.
	And, by the way, it was an 18-beer trip.
	It was so... We had to have 18 beers apiece to last out.
	But we had talks.
	And the men would talk to me about anything and everything.
	And time and time again they said, Father, look, we would never discuss these matters with you if you were married.
	Like Woody.
	Woody was the Parliament Chaplain.
	He was a very decent fella.
	The intimacy that celibacy allows a priest, because he belongs to nobody.
	Yes.
	Except the parishioner.
	Yes.
	And he's really faithful to it, and if he doesn't have a eunuch face, which I'll explain to you what I mean by that, then he becomes special.
	You see, it's a funny thing about celibacy art.
	Let me give you one small word on it from a celibate.
	I mean either you break your celibacy and it becomes a positive thing or else you are
	like somebody who is wearing a castrated belt and somebody has thrown away the key and you
	are looking for the key.
	There is a eunuch faith.
	I wish I could say I relate father but I am the kind of guy who sits and thinks how could
	it be heaven without sex.
	Well actually you know maybe I understand you completely.
	Marriage is a beautiful thing, and love is a beautiful thing.
	By the way, the most impressive thing in exorcism, the most disgusting thing, the most chilling thing in exorcism, apart from the malice, is the terrible demonic contempt for human love.
	Yes.
	Well, you have no idea what it's like.
	I mean, the contempt.
	Well, it would be the greatest enemy, wouldn't it?
	Of course.
	But the contempt for human lovemaking and human marriage and human love.
	The contempt is wounding.
	It wounds you when you come across it.
	So there's actually, in a possession, there is a lot of sexual perversion.
	Of course.
	Of course.
	And there's always a basis for it in reality.
	Any weakness that the exorcist has in that matter is brought out.
	It's like an old scar opened up with a whiplash.
	Well, celibacy cannot be an easy thing.
	No, it's not.
	Not for a mortal man, not even a priest.
	No, it's not.
	It's not.
	And by the way, it's not a sudden thing.
	It's a thing developed over a lifetime to make it a joyous thing.
	And not that you're supposed to go around with a beatific smile.
	No, it's not that.
	It's a different thing.
	Father, we've done it again.
	We'll be right back.
	Take a break.
	We'll be right back.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	These trees are green, really pretty.
	I sit in bloom, for me and you.
	And I think to myself, what a wonderful world.
	I'll be flying down today.
	Alright, back to Father Melancholy Martin.
	Father, a couple of quick, fast questions and then we'll go to the phones.
	Yes.
	All right.
	Here it is.
	While testing for exorcism qualities, has Father Martin ever found a person who was psychic themselves or had powers of telekinesis?
	The ability to move things physically, that was their own power that just looked like demonic abilities, or are all psychic powers demonic?
	It may sound like a trite remark on my part.
	That is a very interesting question.
	And the reason is this, that there are three plateaus of reality.
	There's a physical reality which we all know, space-time, the dimension in which we live and move and have our being.
	Right, right.
	There is the supernatural reality of God.
	And there is the middle plateau, whereon the demons exercise their gifts, and whereon those with psychic gifts have perceptions that battle the rest of us.
	And where they are able to move.
	And where they are able to move.
	I remember, Major Ed Daines, this remote viewer that I have on from time to time, came on the program with you.
	That's right.
	And it's a very dangerous plateau because it is very fascinating to move on that plateau and it can involve you with demonic activity and become fascinating.
	Now, people with natural gifts of psychic perception People that know things from afar.
	People that know your past life.
	People that can enjoy telekinesis.
	Can do that sort of thing.
	You just said people who can know your past life.
	That's right.
	I would have thought your position would have been that there are no past lives.
	Well, no, I didn't mean past life.
	I meant what has happened since you... since you were 45.
	Oh, I see.
	Non-reincarnation.
	Alright, so there is real psychic power.
	Oh, there is real psychic power.
	There's no doubt about that.
	It's a very, very frightening thing when you meet it.
	I've known young people, young boys and girls with it.
	And you have to teach them how not to use it.
	Because it disturbs people very much.
	And then besides, it can also lead them onto the middle plateau, where they can run into trouble.
	Alright, part two of this is a separate question.
	People have predicted the current Pope will soon die, after which another Pope will take control.
	The new Pope has been predicted by some to be a dreaded betrayer of the faith, possibly involved in the coming of the Antichrist.
	Yes.
	How does Father Martin view the prophecy of the 111th Pope, which would be the next Pope?
	Frankly, Art, the older I get, the less I know about it.
	I have a feeling in my bones that the miseries of the Roman Catholic organization, as an organization, not simply as a spiritual church, but as an organization on the face of the earth, The miseries of that organization are just beginning, and that it is heading into a very difficult situation worldwide, and that there will be a lot of trouble in Rome itself.
	Now, as regards the health of the present Holy Father, it's very hard to know, because he's a Polack, He's a stubborn man.
	Oh, he is.
	And he keeps on saying, no, I'm, despite all these prophecies, because he hears them, all these doomsdayers, I'm going to see the year 2000.
	And I'm going to go to Mount Sinai in the year 2000.
	And I'm going to go to Ur of the Chaldees where Abraham started in the year 2000.
	I'm going to go to Jerusalem and Bethlehem and Calvary.
	Well, if he's determined, then he may well make it.
	He may well make it.
	Always take into account the will of God.
	We do, I do not know.
	Frankly, in spite of my name, which is biblical, for a prophet, Malachi, I have no gift of prophecy, so I don't know.
	I have a great confidence that God, who so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son to give us light and life, will take care of us.
	But I don't think it's going to be easy.
	I think misery is a great start.
	Father, you predicted that there would be an event in the spring, that there would be an event... There could be.
	There could be an event if a certain sign took place, but there wasn't a sign between the end of winter and the end of spring.
	There are nevertheless many, many people, and I'm one of them, who feel something big is imminent.
	Oh, yes.
	There's no doubt about that.
	There's no doubt about that.
	People of all disciplines, people I interview of all disciplines, and they're all essentially saying the same thing.
	It's a general feeling.
	Yes, it is.
	No doubt about that.
	It absolutely is.
	And remember, you remember what Freud told us about what the psychiatric associations in Austria were saying in 1938?
	He said that the multiplicity of patients coming Telling about retro dreams about barbed wire and blood.
	Yes.
	He said it baffled us all why they were talking like that.
	There is a general feeling.
	Knowing the future doesn't help one's peace of mind.
	I remember I had the dubious privilege Reading the text of the Third Secret of Satana, which I must guard by oath from repeating, but it isn't pleasant.
	I have a whole stack of faxes here asking me to ask you about that, and you obviously cannot speak of that.
	Not factually, not word for word.
	I can't.
	I took a note.
	But it ain't pleasant.
	The less you know about it, the better, except that There is going to be a reckoning and that nobody existing on the face of this earth will be exempt from knowing the power from on high.
	They will interpret it in different ways.
	That stands to reason.
	According to their culture.
	According to their beliefs.
	That's right, and their culture and their bias.
	And there will be people who, even faced with the... with the certainty that there is a greater power above our heads, will say... They will deny it.
	They will... The scientists... They'll reject it.
	The scientists, for example, will find a scientific explanation for it.
	They will.
	They will.
	You remember the famous so-called Aurora Borealis in 1938?
	Well, I certainly am aware of Aurora Borealis, but not one specific... There was a specific one.
	Which they explained by saying Ouroboros wasn't that at all.
	They all agreed it wasn't Ouroboros.
	The only one who put his finger on it was Adolf Hitler.
	And he said what?
	Well, he was in Bachter's Garden at the Wolf's Lair.
	That was his famous place for weekends with his cabinet.
	And Albert Speer, who was a member of his cabinet, his architect, tells us in his second book But that night, they all stood on the esplanade of his villa in the Bavarian mountains, looking out to the east and seeing these extraordinary sights of light.
	And Hitler said, ja, nun, now we have to shed blood.
	We didn't shed blood in taking Bazaar, we didn't shed blood in taking Czechoslovakia, but now we're going to shed blood.
	So he took that as a sign?
	Oh, he took it as was a sign.
	The Virgin who told the children in Fatima in 1917 about this sign,
	she told them it would take place just before the Great World War.
	She said it will be just before they start killing millions.
	Can you tell us in a way that we can read between the lines with regard to the third prophecy?
	Is there a timetable that you are aware of that cannot speak of that we can read between the lines on?
	Yes and no.
	It is not 200 years away.
	It is not 50 years away.
	It is not 20 years away.
	Number one.
	And number two, it involves The entire world system.
	It's not merely one area.
	It's not merely one religion.
	It's not merely one race.
	It will be apparent to all.
	All.
	Without exception.
	Without exception, and it will be frightening.
	Okay, well I think I've asked as much as I want to ask about that.
	Let us ask some questions of the audience.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Father Malachi Martin in Manhattan.
	Hello.
	Good morning and greetings to you Art from British Columbia up in Canada and to Father Martin.
	We do try to keep the faith.
	What I'd like to do is ask several questions and I'll just hang up and listen to your various responses.
	One for Art and two for Father Martin.
	Several weeks ago you had a living, breathing astronaut, Art, on the program.
	Yes, Edgar Mitchell.
	Yes, I rather wish you'd asked him what his take was on your question, did we really fly to the moon?
	Yes, the answer is yes.
	I've asked him that many times.
	He walked on the moon, sir.
	Did you challenge him with some of the questions of the debate?
	Yes, I did.
	Father Martin, my Irish grandmother, God bless her soul, she was from County Court.
	Oh, God bless her.
	Yes, I know.
	She used to have me on her knee and with a twinkle in her eye she would tell me stories about the little people.
	And as a kid I loved those stories.
	I would like your take on that.
	The little people?
	The little people.
	And the other question is, Father Martin, you mentioned Vancouver as a source of the black arts.
	I think Victoria is even more so.
	Yes, it is.
	Do you mean the mild-mannered Canadians?
	Oh, hey, man!
	Well, I mean, in a lot of ways, they are Canadians.
	I speak to them all the time, Father, and they are very mild-mannered.
	They're very courteous, there's no doubt about that.
	But apparently behind that facade, why is it?
	Anyway, those little people.
	The little people, well, the little people, it's the ancient Celtic myth that the fairies, the little people, the wee people, dwell in the ruined forts and castles, of which Ireland is full, by the way, ruins of chapels and churches and towers and castles and old houses, etc.
	But it is purely and simply a Celtic myth, but rather they have woven an entire literature.
	I wonder, Father, if today's little people in America and the world that are called Greys, aliens, are the same sort of mythological creatures that were in Ireland.
	I've always wondered the same thing, Art, and I have no answer to it at all.
	I have no answer to it at all.
	There is a greater myth, or not myth, but mystery in Ireland, the Banshee.
	Did you ever hear of the Banshee?
	I've never heard of it.
	Oh, I've heard of a Banshee.
	The Banshee exists in certain families, certain old Celtic families still existing in Ireland, when a prominent member is dying or dead, this woman is heard crying.
	And it's too frequent a happening to deny it.
	We don't know what it is.
	I had a very, very irate uncle on my mother's side, who became an atheist, by the way, and when I brought this up to him, he said, no, that's the female hair in heat.
	But it's to establish the fact that there are families and there is this peculiar wailing and ologoning, as they say in Gaelic, at the death of a member.
	Tell you a pretty strange story, Father, in Miami.
	It broke the day before yesterday.
	A woman dressed in trailing black with no identification whatsoever fell from the sky.
	The authorities have checked with airlines, with flight plans that have been filed, blah blah blah.
	No identification on the woman.
	They have no idea who she is.
	She literally fell from the sky, hit a picket fence, was cut in two, and they still have no idea whatsoever what that could be all about.
	Signs, strange signs from the sky.
	Strange signs, but there are strange things happening all over the place at the present moment.
	Paducah, Kentucky, a 14 year old walks in and kills three classmates, wounds six others, and gives only as an explanation, those who know him, that he was angry at us, at society.
	Oh boy.
	You know, you see statistics today indicating that crime, violent crime, is down.
	But the very nature of crime has utterly changed.
	At one time, Father, when one person would take the life of another, there usually was a reason, man catches, man catches a wife in bed with somebody else, bad business deal, robbery, whatever, but there was a motive.
	Today's crime, though maybe less, is Totally indecipherable.
	That's the very word, indecipherable.
	It's an extraordinary turn of events.
	Now, look, as far as I know it means the presence of a more active evil, for evil's sake.
	Is there a war between heaven and hell that is constantly going on, or is it... And now it's acute.
	Now it's acute.
	Now it's very acute.
	All right, Father, hold on.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	Sometimes you have to be careful about the questions you ask.
	Good morning, everybody.
	I'm Art Bell.
	My guest from Manhattan, New York, is Father Malachi Martin, and there will be more coming up shortly.
	Keep it right where you've got it.
	All right, once again, Father Malachi Martin from Manhattan.
	Father, A war between heaven and hell.
	There have been recent movies about it, and so I hate to have to draw my knowledge of this from motion pictures.
	Why not?
	But there was, have you seen a movie called Prophecy?
	Yes, I have.
	Christopher Walken?
	Yes.
	Boy, he sure is a perfectly possessed person on screen, isn't he?
	It, in those motion pictures, depicts an actual War between heaven and hell and escalating war between heaven and hell.
	The Fallen Angels.
	When you see something like that, is that anything like you envision to be going on, minus the Hollywood special effects?
	Yes, well, minus the Hollywood special effects, yes.
	Yeah, it is.
	Of course.
	We just had some weird noise on the line.
	We had, yes.
	It must be that we're getting on somebody's nerves.
	That's right.
	You guys at NSA, just listen.
	Don't cut in, huh?
	That's right.
	It is, yes.
	But the way you find that battle raging is in the souls and lives of living people.
	And you find it raging and hurting and injuring and killing.
	The people you deal with.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, you do.
	And terrible things happen.
	Humanly terrible things happen to people who take the other side, who really serve evil and hurt others.
	And it splits them generation to generation.
	It's a terrible battle.
	And it goes on all day and goes on quite the whole week and the whole year.
	There's no getting away from it, and it's getting much more acute today than it ever was before.
	Well, maybe this is a dumb question, but is there any possibility that that war could ever become an all-out war, one in which the right side wouldn't win, where Earth could be lost?
	I think it can get to the point that Earth can be lost for a while.
	It will be reclaimed.
	But I think that there's a sunset is creeping over the whole human thing.
	Yes.
	At the present moment.
	And it's a great sludge.
	And it's slowly but surely extinguishing all love.
	The world is really getting very cold.
	And I think we're now getting back toward that which you really can't fully talk about.
	Yeah, that's right.
	I catch on quickly.
	All right, Father, a lot of people on the phone lines, and I've really got to get used to the Rockies.
	You're on the air with Father Malachi Martin.
	Hello, where are you, please?
	Hello there.
	Hello.
	Yes, you're on the air.
	Yes, this is Bruce from Chicago.
	Hi, Bruce.
	Good morning.
	It's an honor to talk to Father Martin.
	He's my favorite guest.
	Hi, Bruce.
	My question was along the lines of what you were just talking about.
	The last moments, Father Martin's last appearance on the program, he talked about, or Art brought up the lights in Phoenix and Father said that if that in fact was the case, something awesome and most fearful would be happening and the time frame I interpreted from that was somewhere I don't feel happy at all about 98 the moment we leave winter and start into spring.
	I don't feel happy at all about it.
	Well, actually I don't feel happy at all about 1998, the moment we leave winter and start
	into spring.
	I don't feel happy at all about it.
	I simply think that things are spiraling in such a way that we are going to undergo severe
	disturbances, to put it mildly, nationally and internationally.
	I think that if I were to speak of regret, I think a lot of people are going to die violently.
	Oh boy.
	I think we're coming to a very bad point.
	A very bad point, I think.
	I can't interpret it any other way.
	I don't even want to ask anymore.
	West of the Rockies, you're on air with Father Malachi Martin.
	Hello.
	Yes, good morning.
	Morning.
	Where are you, please?
	Vancouver.
	Yes, Vancouver.
	Again.
	We draw you forth.
	Yes, you have.
	God bless you, Vancouver.
	Art, I appreciate your ability to sensitively talk to the variety of people that you talk to.
	It's amazing to me.
	And Father Malachi, you're a very special person.
	I have a question for you.
	It's been very disruptive to me.
	A little while ago I was speaking to some very old photographs of my family.
	I came across two pictures that were taken, it looked like a few minutes apart, of my mother, another woman and a young child in front of a fence with a house in the background.
	The first picture they were all looking very sullen, very glum and in the foreground, in front of my mom, There was a creature that you could kind of see through it.
	It almost looks like double exposure except there's no reason.
	It's just too old and genuine.
	But the creature looked about four feet tall, a little hunched over.
	black kind of shawl, kind of like a big nose, very, very evil looking and I'm concerned
	that this could be demonic and I'm concerned about the intergenerational kind of effect
	it can have on an opponent.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Was there any trouble?
	Can I send you a picture?
	Was there any trouble?
	Have you got the picture yet?
	I have got the picture.
	I don't even show it to people because it just makes my hair stand on end.
	Put it in an envelope and write the... are you Catholic at all?
	I'm not Catholic, I'm... You're Christian?
	I am Christian.
	Well then, take an envelope, put the photograph in it, and put a note on it saying, do not open, and date it, and sign it, and write the name of Jesus across the front of it, and put it away.
	Okay, do not open, and then write...
	Write the name of Jesus and put it away in a strong box somewhere.
	It has a purpose.
	It has a purpose?
	I don't know what the purpose is.
	Is that a clear enough instruction?
	It is.
	How about if I send it to you and you could put it in a strong box?
	I don't even want it.
	Well, if that is to be what's happened to it, please do.
	Okay.
	That is to be the way it's done.
	Okay.
	But you, sir, really should accept responsibility as guardian of your own.
	I've had it up to now.
	Is there an address that I can get?
	All right, yes.
	Thank you.
	Father, by the way, I want to tell the audience you have a new website and we have linked to your website.
	I should have given this much earlier in the program.
	People will go to www.artbell.com.
	And just scroll on down to Father Malachi Martin's name, click on it, you will go to his new website.
	Now, Father, is there a way on that website for people to contact you?
	Maybe not.
	Not so far, although I must tell you that I've given out an address, a postal address, in Manhattan.
	Yes.
	Uh, which can be used within Tunisia.
	All right.
	And it's 217 East 66th Street.
	Slow down.
	217 East 66th Street.
	New York, New York 10021.
	10021.
	Apartment 2A as in Apple.
	Wait a minute here.
	Uh, then I download all my messages, uh, by email.
	Right.
	I don't answer them all because sometimes they exceed 300 a week.
	I understand.
	It's difficult to answer them, but certain ones I do.
	Okay, Father Malachi Martin, apartment 2A at 217 East 66th Street, New York, New York, 10021.
	uh... two seventeen east sixteen six streets
	they are clear one hundred
	one zero zero two one okay
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Father Malachi Martin.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	Where are you, please?
	My name is Alex, and I'm calling from El Paso, Texas.
	Yes, Alex.
	Yes, Father Martin, I have a feeling that my good friend of mine, his son, I think, may be possessed.
	And what he does is he draws very, very strange drawings on his wall, and he talks to them.
	He draws very, very ugly pictures of certain strange things.
	I may sound kind of crazy by saying this.
	No, you don't sound crazy at all.
	What age is the boy?
	He's about ten.
	When kids are about ten, you know how they have invisible play friends and stuff like that.
	I have a strange feeling that God is telling me to kind of help this boy.
	Yes, and I don't really know whether to get some sort of help on exorcism or anything like that.
	I do not know the bishop down there, if there's an official exorcist in that diocese of El Paso, in which El Paso is.
	Do you know anything else about the boy?
	Does he speak about a companion?
	Well, he told me that he's talking to the person on the wall.
	In other words, he could have a familiar, as they call it.
	I'm not too sure about a familiar.
	They call it a familiar.
	At this distance, it's impossible to say.
	But the peculiar drawing is funny.
	Does his father bring him to a psychologist?
	Um, no, actually the father just kind of like blows it off and says, hey, you know, it's just my son doing strange things, you know, but... Oh, gee whiz.
	That's a big family.
	I kind of have a feeling that, you know, maybe I should get someone, or if not myself, get someone to exercise him.
	So where would I... Well, you'd have to apply to the local diocese.
	Because at this distance, it's the jurisdiction of the bishop in which El Paso is.
	I don't know what diocese El Paso is in.
	It's in Texas.
	Texan Diocese.
	Texas Diocese.
	I don't know which one.
	But then you go to the Chancery and ask who is the exorcist in that diocese.
	Would it be possible?
	If the father agrees.
	The father must agree.
	So there you are.
	Father, what chance in this modern day and age in America does somebody have of going to a diocese and getting an affirmative answer that there is an exorcist?
	There is, well, put in percentiles.
	About 33 percent.
	33 percent.
	About a third.
	Very low.
	And if they don't get satisfaction, then what?
	Wow.
	If they don't get satisfaction... Yeah, if they're laughed off or scrubbed off or whatever.
	The reason I've grown is that I know so many cases of that.
	I know so many cases where they're laughed off, or brushed off, or told to go away, or simply told as though, go to a psychiatrist.
	You know?
	And that's what has happened within the church organization of my Roman Catholic Church.
	If our friend, who is speaking to us from El Paso, he should pray about it, because prayer That's what this boy needs.
	But I have no solution.
	At this distance, Art, I have no solution.
	I see the poignancy of it all.
	And the danger.
	And that father is very feckless.
	Father, could you become a bishop?
	Of course I could.
	If you were to become a bishop with the power ascendant, what would you try to change?
	What would you try to do with that power?
	Increased responsibility?
	I would try and organize the clerical reaction to possession and obsession, because these are factors that are growing in every dance, as I know, in the United States.
	So we should not be offering less People like that man who called, but more.
	No, no, on the contrary.
	It should be aided immediately.
	There should be a mechanism in each diocese that aids such a thing, takes it in, studies it, gets to the boy, gets to the father.
	But there isn't.
	And that's the triumph of Luciferianism.
	The churches themselves.
	As the grayness descends.
	Yeah.
	And the terrible thing is that you won't find a belief in it all among many bishops and many priests.
	Does the fact that you just said that make it less likely that you would become a bishop?
	No, no it doesn't.
	It depends on the will of those who make bishops.
	Anyway, but it is pathetic, Art.
	It really is pathetic.
	Even in this Archdiocese of New York, there are people who need attention, but they don't get it.
	But don't get it.
	Because there's just too much to be done.
	I understand.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Father Malachi Martin in Manhattan.
	Hello.
	I can barely hear you.
	Yes, my name is Keith.
	I can barely hear him, too.
	Yeah, you're going to have to yell at us, sir.
	Okay.
	My name is Keith.
	Yes, Keith.
	I'm calling from Carbondale, Illinois.
	Okay.
	I was just calling in concern with something that you talked about earlier in the show, the lady named Harlett.
	Oh, yes.
	I was just thinking about it.
	I do a paper route at night and I just got off of it to try to get a hold of you.
	You seemed kind of concerned and it hit me that most likely the daughter would be in heaven.
	And the reason I say this is because if the woman desired her to be in hell with her, and hell is supposed to be a damnation, then she wouldn't be able to have that with her.
	But sir, she said, if you listened carefully to that program, she didn't say that she willed her to be in hell with her, she said she took steps before her daughter was killed to ensure that she would be in hell with her.
	It's as if she desired that to be.
	Of course.
	It was beyond desire.
	She said she took steps.
	Right, and what I'm saying is that she would be getting one of her desires fulfilled if God were to enact the child to damnation.
	You really are missing something though.
	She actually took steps, and what I asked Father Martin a while ago was whether I have no idea what those steps are, but whether it would be possible that in fact she could have done that, and the answer was yes.
	It's feasible.
	It's feasible.
	It's an extraordinary thing.
	The genuine Luciferians and Satanists you meet, they look forward to hell.
	She did.
	She absolutely did.
	It was one of the most unnerving interviews I've ever done in my whole life.
	Father, we're at the top of the hour.
	Are you good for one last hour?
	Definitely.
	Well, there's lots of people awaiting, so we will do it.
	Relax for a while and we'll be right back.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	All right, back now to Manhattan and Father Malachi Martin, and Father will try and lay heavily into the phones.
	Yeah, sure.
	But I do have a couple of quick questions, by facts.
	One, have you, Father, ever had an exorcised demon come back to haunt you?
	Yes.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah.
	I'm glad they asked, because I never would have thought to ask, and I never would have expected that Answer, can you tell us at all?
	Yes, it's very harrowing and resulted in bodily injury, grievous bodily injury.
	But we were able to deal with it, but it took a lot of work.
	It involved a lot of physical pain, a lot of physical pain for a whole year.
	For a year?
	the damage.
	And one other, and this is much lighter, finally a light question.
	You know we are talking about Christmas and Christmas giving and so forth and we know
	that you have been close to two popes.
	And Kevin listening to KEX in Portland wants to know what does a close friend of the pope
	buy him for Christmas?
	Well if you really know him and he knows he shaves because he was an electric razor, then
	It's as simple as that.
	Or slippers.
	Bedroom slippers.
	Or if he uses t-shirts.
	One pope did, oh mind you.
	Used t-shirts.
	Valued cotton.
	Egyptian cotton t-shirts.
	Things like that.
	I see.
	Simple things.
	Simple things, sure.
	All right, first time caller on the line.
	You're on the air with Father Malachi Martin.
	Good morning.
	Hello, this is Ken from Steubenville, Ohio.
	Hi, Ken.
	Praise God, I finally got through to you after trying for months.
	Yes, sir.
	First of all, I'd like to confirm two things and then ask a question for Father Martin.
	A, yes, once you've been demonized or bothered, getting rid of it is the greatest thing in the world.
	Yes, they do try to come back and bother you.
	I know, I had death delivered off of me.
	Second of all, I have a question for Father Martin about, is it possible that a person could be born and have a curse put on them for the rest of their life, where like a cloud of doom is always over them?
	Interesting question.
	Yes, the only way I can translate it into reality is that Uh, in certain families, possession is intergenerational.
	Right.
	Alright, the reason why I ask that question is, last year my mother died of cancer.
	Uh-huh.
	And, uh, we had to bring her home to die.
	Uh-huh.
	And I knew of a, uh, well, she said she made a deal with God, and I knew what it was.
	It was a pact.
	And, uh, she didn't die in peace until I prayed over her, anointed her, and broke the pact with the devil.
	Yep.
	That can be done.
	I know.
	I've done your type of work, and I understand the seriousness of it.
	So, as far as this curse goes, I've had many people pray over me, but nobody could really put the finger on why... Are you one of the people who has a black cloud over his head all the time?
	Yes.
	All right.
	Father, that really is an interesting question.
	Your answer was affirmative, that there can be such a... I don't know if curse is the right word.
	No, curse is not the way of saying it.
	It's an intergenerational obsession, really, in his case, that he's not possessed.
	It doesn't sound like it, anyway.
	It seems so cosmically unfair.
	If there is no such... You know, I listen to and I interview people who believe fervently in reincarnation.
	Yes, yes.
	And they will forward the theory of karmic work-off, you know, from one lifetime to another.
	But if there is not that, and that we all begin roughly equally, It just doesn't seem fair.
	Well, you know, sometimes we don't all begin equally, uh, our tough difficulties.
	And, you see, there's one peculiarity God has, and it's this.
	That, as the prophet Hosea said, the fathers eat sour grapes and the children's teeth are blunt.
	Um, take for instance Adam and Eve.
	I wasn't in the garden.
	True.
	True, but you nevertheless suffer.
	I suffer, but that's God.
	If I'm a child born of a mother who's a lush and a father who's a crack addict, most probably I'm going to be an alcoholic and I'm going to be crack addicted from the moment I see the light.
	Why?
	The way God has arranged humanity, and if I have a parent who rears me, I've got to be the servant of Lucifer, and I know families that do that.
	Oh yes.
	You know, God doesn't step in and send an angel and tell me to stop.
	I've got to deal with it, and if there's anything like an intergenerational obsession in a man's family, then he has to deal with it.
	All right.
	Wow.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Father Malachai Martin.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Going once.
	Going twice.
	I'm not from the Rockies.
	I said east of the Rockies.
	Oh, east of the Rockies.
	I'm sorry.
	That's you then.
	You're east.
	Where are you?
	I live in Oaklawn.
	Oaklawn.
	Oaklawn, Illinois.
	I'm sorry.
	Definitely east of that great chain there.
	Definitely east.
	Good morning, Father.
	Good morning to you, ma'am.
	First, before I ask you anything, I want to thank God that we have priests like you to give us information.
	Well, for the information that we're starving for, because you speak the truth, and this is what we very seldom hear nowadays.
	Okay, my question, and I've even written this to Cardinal O'Connor in New York, could the I don't know.
	the Latin traditional mass of the saints and the martyrs let all hell break loose.
	Now the reason I'm saying, that's my first question, and the reason I'm putting that together with
	I read Leo XIII when he heard the devil come from the tabernacle.
	And now I'm not trying to figure out God's time, but that was in 1887.
	Right, Father?
	It was.
	Okay, so it was in 19... Now, the first thing they did at Vatican II, when they tampered with the mass, is take away the prayer of Saint Michael.
	That's right.
	And, I mean, I don't look at it as coincidence, because... No, it's not coincidence.
	Pardon me, Father?
	It's not?
	Because they took away... Father, you've got to stay good and close to the phone.
	I have to.
	My phone is in bad shape.
	I'm going to get a new instrument.
	And when he heard this, when he heard the devil make the pact with God... Now, if I'm saying it wrong, I'm not real well educated, so bear with me.
	You're doing fine.
	Okay.
	Well, when he made that pact with God, and God said, I will give Satan a hundred years to destroy the church.
	Yes.
	Now, when that happened in 1887, And that prayer to St.
	Michael was composed to fight the devil.
	The first thing they did at Vatican II is take away at the foot of the altar the mass of St.
	Michael.
	The prayer of St.
	Michael.
	That's right.
	You already covered that, ma'am.
	Your bottom line question is, it's all hell about to break loose, right?
	The thing I'm asking is that in 1987, through the grace of God, The Holy Father, almost to the day, the month of October, on the Feast of St.
	Treece, the mass in doubt was given.
	Now that is like the weapon, the center of our faith, is the Latin traditional mass.
	That's right.
	Now, could this be all part of it, the cantering of the sacred?
	That's what I want to know.
	Yes, it was.
	It was.
	And between you and me and the Holy Spirit, ma'am, What I've always believed is this, that the only punishment that was merited by those who drew up the main documents in the Vatican Council, the only punishment that they deserved was the withdrawal of grace.
	They tampered with the truth.
	And God simply withdrew grace, and hence we had the horrible 30 years.
	Do you understand what I'm saying?
	Clearly, Father.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Father Malachi Martin.
	Hello.
	Yes, hello Art.
	Hi, where are you?
	In California, this is Daphne.
	Yes.
	Thank you for bringing Father Malachi on.
	Hi Father Malachi.
	Hi there ma'am, how are you?
	Fine, thank you.
	What's on your mind?
	I have two questions if I can.
	The first one deals with I was born into an intergenerational satanic cult and my father was the high priest.
	At my birth my soul was given to Satan by my parents.
	So my first question is how can I be released from that?
	Very simple, ma'am.
	Provided you are baptized, and that you go through confession, Holy Communion, and Mass, you should unseek the Immaculate Conception, which is just in a couple of days' time.
	You should consecrate yourself to Our Lady.
	Okay.
	I did denounce Satan.
	Is it as simple as that?
	It's as simple as that.
	Okay.
	If you need anything further you could write to me about it.
	That's all that's necessary really.
	Okay and thank you.
	My second question is as a result of the experiences that I had with this cult I developed multiple personalities so this whole evening's program is very interesting to me.
	Yes.
	I was highly programmed by the cult and I've been in therapy for many years.
	Along with all the personalities are nine demons.
	They're not part of my personality, but they're separate.
	My pastors are preparing to do a deliverance.
	I'm not Catholic.
	We did go to a Catholic church and ask the priest, and he really did not believe in that.
	He did not take it seriously.
	So my pastors are preparing to do this in a few weeks, and I'm wondering if you have any suggestions for them, or is there a way they can reach you by phone?
	Write me a short note to the following address.
	217 East 66th Street, apartment 2A for Apple, New York, New York, 10021.
	And does that come directly to you?
	Yes, it does.
	Obviously, that's an apartment address.
	It goes right to us.
	Tell me your first name so I can identify it.
	No.
	This is in the letter.
	Daphne.
	What is your first name?
	Daphne.
	Daphne.
	Okay, I've got it.
	That's enough.
	All right, Daphne.
	Do that then.
	Father, that is an amazing thing to hear.
	She was given to the devil at birth.
	Oh, yes.
	You have no idea how common this is.
	Well, that was where I was going.
	In America, in Canada, in the Americas, even worldwide, Father.
	How much of that is really going on?
	I'll put it like this.
	It's going on, I don't know one country in which it is not going on.
	I don't know why, because there's a very private Vatican report about this, which we don't divulge,
	but it has, it gives the indication that this, there isn't one country in which this doesn't take place.
	Is there, is there arguably more of it going on, or...
	Yes.
	Arguably more going on today than any record indicates.
	The records we have are very good.
	They're very detailed.
	But arguably there's much more today than in the last 50 years.
	The second half of this century has been a bumper crop.
	So that really at the very moment in history, a critical moment, when the church ought to be going in the direction that you would have it go, it's going exactly the other way.
	That's right.
	The organization, not the church itself, because that's a sacred thing.
	It's composed of all those in the state of grace who belong to our Lord and to God.
	But the organization itself is in shambles.
	Shambles.
	In shambles.
	I didn't really expect to get on.
	I could ask questions for hours, too.
	However, I'll just try to cut down to three.
	I want to ask Art one question.
	Why do you divide your callers between on the Rocky Mountains?
	I would have thought the Mississippi River would have been a more central location.
	Well, maybe we'll change that one day.
	It's just something we did because we began in the West and we had so many people in the far West that were listening to the show when it first became syndicated that we wanted to give everybody used to the Rockies.
	An opportunity to get in, and the show has grown obviously since then, so maybe we'll change that.
	I see.
	Anyway.
	Okay, and a question for your guests.
	Okay, I tell people that people that go, seem to go crazy and just shoot people for no reason.
	Like just recently somebody shot a bunch of kids at the... The Duke of Kentucky.
	The Duke of Kentucky.
	Right, and I tell them, well, this There's no real reason for these people to be possessed.
	You're probably the only person I could talk to that would agree with me.
	Do you think that at least a percentage of these people are actually possessed or obsessed or is it just normal human evil?
	No, no, no.
	I'm convinced that in a case like the Paducah thing, it's demonic.
	It was a prayer group.
	And this young fellow was warning people ahead of time that something horrible was going to happen.
	He actually warned them and then went ahead and did it.
	It's, as I said earlier, indecipherable.
	So you believe that there is possibly, very possibly, real evil involved.
	Yes, and the difficulty we, the normal public, have is this that, for instance, in New York, when something takes place, something horrid, something bloody, something murderous, and there's Satanism, as they call it, as General Trump involved, the police will not tell that to the public.
	They have a rule.
	They have a rule.
	Then I must ask you this, Father.
	This, in the Paducah case, of course, was a 14-year-old This child, and this child will be no doubt charged as a juvenile at 14, but if this was an older person, then how many people do you suppose, Father, go to the electric chair or are ultimately punished, receive capital punishment for something that is of demonic origin rather than human origin?
	That's difficult to answer.
	I know that when we did a survey of prisons, lifers, and people confined for thirty, thirty-five, forty years for horrible crimes, a good one-third of them were obviously possessed.
	A good one-third?
	Yeah, at least one-third of the general ballpark figure.
	One-third.
	All right, Father, hold on.
	We're at the bottom of the hour once again.
	Time does fly when you're getting the hex scared out of you, huh?
	Okay, there'll be more.
	I'm Art Bell from the high desert.
	this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Still there?
	Yes, sir.
	Well, okay, we're in the stretch run.
	It really is amazing how time runs away.
	It runs away.
	Yes, sir.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with a guy who runs away with time.
	Father Martin, hi.
	Hi, this is Paul in Denver.
	Hello, Paul.
	Father Martin, I have two short related questions concerning your comments about hypnosis.
	If someone is pursuing or is not pursuing metaphysical goals or satanic goals, is hypnosis in general or self-hypnosis in particular dangerous?
	I know many people use self-hypnosis for self-improvement kinds of purposes and I just ask, is that dangerous?
	No, of itself no it isn't, but it should be under the supervision of some good psychiatrist.
	I see.
	And then the last kind of related question is how is a self-hypnosis different or maybe it's the same as an affirmative prayer?
	Because the self-hypnosis is really relying upon your own inner powers of concentration and self-control.
	Whereas prayer, genuine prayer, depends on a special gift from God.
	I see.
	At the moment of prayer.
	They are presently doing studies on the power of prayer.
	Actual scientific studies.
	And it would appear to be absolutely scientifically verifiable that prayer actually Yes, it does.
	It works.
	There's no doubt about that.
	And the question that Paul just gave us is very interesting.
	Yes.
	What is the difference between self-hypnosis?
	Precisely.
	Because actually you can be taught by a very well-instructed psychiatrist.
	They can teach you to hypnotize yourself so that you go to sleep, so that you recover from weariness.
	But how does that differ from prayer in the sense, it differs in one sense, one essential sense, that prayer, if it's genuine prayer, and if it's heard, which it normally is by a good God, then it means you get extra help, spiritual help, supernatural help.
	That's distinct from your own inner powers.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Father Malachi Martin.
	Hi.
	Hi, this is Tom in Reno.
	Hi Tom.
	Hi Tom.
	Father Martin, it's a distinct honor to speak with you.
	That's very nice of you to say that, Tom.
	Thank you.
	I was wondering if you were familiar with Edgar Cayce?
	Yes, I am.
	With his works, I never knew the man himself.
	Okay.
	You knew that he was an extremely religious person?
	Extremely.
	How do you reconcile his writings About past lives and that sort of thing.
	I'll tell you, Tom, there's no doubt about it.
	Two things are clear about Edmund Cayce.
	First of all, he had extraordinary middle plateau powers.
	That is, psychic gifts.
	Extraordinary.
	Quite extraordinary.
	There's at least one doctor in New Jersey today that still uses his formula.
	His formulae for various afflictions and diseases.
	And he did this without any medical instruction as such.
	He had extraordinary perceptions in that sense.
	An extraordinary perception.
	He just had it and it came to him.
	It was a psychic gift.
	On the other hand, he did make egregious errors intellectualizing his condition.
	He fell into various sort of illusions about God and about life and death and the hereafter.
	And that part, if you are wise, if you take my advice, you'll drop any teachings he has about that.
	But there's no doubt about it, I know a person, a lady, a woman, whose sight was saved because she went to a doctor in New Jersey who used Cayce's formula.
	You did have some amazing warriors that he came up with.
	Absolutely amazing!
	And it was a gift, there's no doubt about it.
	Now look, I knew a few people in Ireland, the old Ireland I was born in, in the 1920s and 30s, who had extraordinary gifts, too, of curing, healing, by touch, and who also could tell you what's going to happen to you on the morrow.
	These gifts, and I've met them in There are parts of the world I have lived in, but never so
	much in my youth and adulthood when life was much simpler.
	These gifts exist.
	Edmund Cayce is an outstanding example of extraordinary psychic gifts.
	Definitely great gifts from God, I would say.
	Yes, obviously.
	Anything good comes from God.
	Okay, I have one more question if I could.
	All right, one more quick one.
	I wondered if you think it's possible that you could be wrong about past lives and reincarnation.
	All right, there's a straight out question.
	Well, no, I don't think there's such a thing as reincarnation.
	I just don't believe it.
	My church condemns it and my reason doesn't accept it.
	Now that I could be wrong, One can always be wrong, Tom.
	You know what I mean?
	But on this point, since it's a matter of faith, I prefer to say, no, I'm not wrong.
	I'm following the truth as revealed.
	That's because I'm a Roman Catholic.
	Fair enough.
	Ease to the Rockies.
	You're on the air with Fr.
	Malachi Martin.
	Where are you, please?
	Hello?
	Hello there.
	Hi, I'm in Bryant, Manitoba, Canada.
	Alright.
	I had a question for Fr.
	Martin.
	Yes, sir.
	Hi, have you ever heard of the house in Amityville, New York?
	Yes, I have.
	I've been to it.
	Oh, you have?
	Really?
	Yes.
	Are the people living there right now?
	For a long time they weren't.
	There may be people there now.
	I just wondered if you had any information on the person, on the son who did the deed in that house and what he's doing now?
	No, I don't know what he's doing.
	I wish I did.
	I have no means of following that up because he doesn't want much notice.
	You've got enough notice about it all.
	Is it true about the well in that house?
	Yes.
	Is that true?
	The Amityville Horror was really a horror.
	It really was.
	But just as bad and worse, we found.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	Okay, thank you.
	Thank you very much.
	The Amityville Horror was real.
	Oh, yeah.
	It was real.
	It was genuinely gruesome and real.
	Yeah, it was very unpleasant.
	Do you think that whatever was there is still there?
	I've been inclined to think it is there because it was never properly cleansed.
	I'll be doggone if I move into that house.
	Neither would I. I'd be doggone too.
	No, I wouldn't move into a place like that at all.
	West of the Rockies, you're on there with Father Malachi Martin.
	Good morning father.
	I have something that has been bothering me for about a month and a half now.
	It occurred when I was in bed laying on my side and I was tapped on the shoulder.
	I turned my head over towards the bottom of the bed and there was a big dark entity there.
	He was grabbing me at my feet.
	In trying to pull me.
	Is this the first time this has happened to you?
	Yes.
	How long does it last?
	It lasts, it seems like, for 20 seconds.
	Has it occurred again?
	No, it hasn't.
	Do you practice any religion?
	No, I don't.
	Well, I'll tell you.
	It might be a good idea to pray.
	I don't think you were drunk.
	No, I was not.
	No, I'm sure you weren't.
	I say that.
	I don't think you were.
	You sound very sober in my mind, I mean, in judgment.
	Then this is what we call an obsessional harassment.
	It's probably a great mercy that it's done to you because it may wake your soul to worship God.
	I do believe in Jesus Christ and... Good.
	But this has been extremely bothersome of myself.
	It should be.
	I'll tell you.
	Have you got a pencil?
	Yes, I do.
	Write down.
	Go ahead.
	O creature of God, in the name of God who created you, and in the name of Jesus who saved me, I exercise you.
	Now drop all fear.
	You have nothing to fear afraid of.
	Thank you.
	Put those words in his eye.
	Okay?
	Thank you very much Father.
	God bless.
	Good luck.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Father Malachi Martin.
	I'd like to know if I could talk to, just leave Father Malachi's number to call me toll free off the air.
	No, I have no way of doing that sir.
	I'm here all by myself and there's no producer to sit here and take a number.
	It's a one man band show here so I can't do that, but you can write to the Father.
	Okay?
	Okay.
	That's what you're going to have to do, thank you.
	What do you believe in reference to the Nephilim or the Nephilim of the Bible?
	I believe in the Nephilim of the Bible.
	What do you believe in reference to the Nephilim or the Nephilim as far as returning in the flesh with the adversary to
	deceive the world like before?
	Like the Locust Army, that kind of thing.
	The Nephilim half angel, half human?
	No, that would be the Geba.
	I thought it was Nephilim.
	Well, it depends on where you look, I guess.
	It depends on where you look.
	It depends how you interpret where you look.
	I only know one thing, that the Nephilim and the Geber and all that motley horde are under the domination of our Lord and Savior, Jesus.
	And we've nothing to fear, provided we remain faithful.
	Was the earth not once cleansed with flood, to correct all that?
	It was.
	Actually, what you and I live in today, Art, and our friend from wherever he is speaking from, what we are living in today is a reformed creation.
	It's something God made over again after the fall.
	Uh-huh.
	Kind of like he hit a reset button.
	Yeah, he did.
	He had to reset the whole darn thing.
	It went awry.
	I have, again, just sort of a reference to what we've been discussing all night, brushing up against it again, but it looks to me like the fingers get near the same button again.
	Yeah, they do.
	They do.
	They do.
	These are the Rockies.
	You're on the air with Father Malachi Martin.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	Father, I have a question for you.
	Yes, sir.
	In college, a friend of mine and I befriended a third guy in one of our classes, and we became friends.
	He revealed to us at a later time that he was dealing in the black arts and because of this the friendship broke off.
	Did you deal with it?
	No, no I didn't.
	Good.
	But we had some carry over if you will.
	We were visited by things that weren't very pretty.
	That's right, we called that infection.
	Okay, well that we had.
	And we dealt with it, and we confronted him about it, and he didn't believe that it was possible.
	He thought he was in control of these demons and such.
	That's the usual procedure.
	Right.
	We tried to convince him to get out of it, and he believes that he can't.
	And he believes that there's a hell waiting for him, and that there's, sort of at this point, nothing he can do about it.
	And we don't have control... Excuse me?
	That's not true.
	Well, I don't believe so either.
	Yeah.
	But we don't have communication with him anymore.
	Oh, Lord.
	Pray for him.
	Yes, I do that.
	Is there anything specific I can do?
	Beyond reaching him and getting him to go and see somebody in authority who can influence, help him, deliver him, heal him, no, except prayer.
	Okay.
	But you can pray for him.
	Okay.
	And it can move mountains, it really can.
	Okay.
	But throw in a little fasting and penance.
	Fasting and penance, okay.
	Yeah, throw in a little of that.
	All right.
	Okay.
	For his sake.
	Try and get to him, though.
	All right.
	All right?
	All right, thank you.
	You take care.
	He's your brother.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Father Malachi Martin, and not a lot of time left.
	Hello.
	Hi, I'm Anna calling from Malibu.
	I'm a student of Elizabeth Clare Poffitt.
	I'm calling concerning Dr. Jack Kevorkian.
	I have a very strong opinion about him.
	I know you had interviewed her recently.
	I did.
	Father Martin, I am calling concerning Dr. Jack Kevorkian.
	I have a very strong opinion about him.
	I think he is doing a terrible disservice and I believe that the patients that he is
	killing are not being relieved of their suffering, that somehow in an afterlife, because my spiritual
	beliefs, I believe that they will continue to have to go through whatever they need to
	go through.
	It just so happened that at the break he was on the news again saying that he's trying to recruit other doctors to do this.
	And I think you've developed a good rapport with the listeners, and I would like to invite you to perhaps do a service to the listeners and voice your opinion and perhaps give your further opinion.
	I wish we had more time for this.
	Thank you, ma'am.
	Father, it really is a good topic, but what is your opinion?
	There's no doubt about it.
	Jack is doing the work of the devil.
	About his actual spiritual condition, I don't know.
	But I know that he's doing directly the work of the devil.
	He's sending people into eternity by means of what is a mortal sin, an offense against God.
	You can't do that with impunity.
	That's about his actual spiritual condition.
	I don't know him from hole in the wall.
	I wouldn't recognize him, you know.
	So I don't know.
	But he's doing the work of Satan.
	There's no doubt about that.
	Your opinion, murder?
	Yeah.
	He's murdering their souls, really.
	Their souls, really.
	Making it easy for them to... And the dreadful thing about it, the dreadful thing about it, Art, is that when he goes into eternity himself, Where on earth do you think he's going to sit, except in one place?
	I don't know.
	Will he meet the souls of those he dispatched?
	God only knows.
	But one speculates that yes, he will.
	But in a very warm place.
	He is doing the work of the devil.
	Boy, I hate to imagine that those souls that he dispatched, those suffering souls... You are right, Art.
	You have a good compassion about it.
	It may be that they were suffering so much that they lost their reason.
	Do you understand me?
	They grasped at any straw.
	I do, but the doctor retaining his health, you don't think that he's got the same chance?
	I don't think so, no.
	I'd be very condemnatory.
	Well, Father, we've done it again.
	We're flat out of time.
	I know.
	Time is the one thing we capitalists can't buy.
	Listen, I want to thank you for giving me the chance to talk to you and to your audience, and if I don't speak to you before Christmas, you and Ramona have my blessing.
	Father, thank you, and we will do this, of course, again.
	So it's now goodbye, just till next time.
	No, no, it's au revoir.

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