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Nov. 11, 1997 - Art Bell

03:29:21

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Boris Said & Tom Danley - Egypt and Archaeology

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01:22:56

boris said

01:08:04

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm the Rockies, and you're listening to AM 1500 KS T Ves in the great American Southwest.
		I bid you all good evening, good morning, as the case may be, across this great land stretching from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Island chains in the west, where we can conjure up images of, oh, I don't know, native girls, hammocks,
		great big palm prawns, just sort of streets with little umbrellas, you know, out into the East and the Caribbean, where similar visions are absolutely possible, South America, where they're possible, and North where you better be dressed warmly all the way to the pole, and worldwide on the internet.
		This is Ghost AM, top of the morning for most of you.
		I'm Mark Bellen.
		It's great to be here.
		And tonight, we are going to continue our exploration in a radio kind of way of the pyramids.
		And we're going to have Boris Said back.
		He was a big hit last time on the program, Mr. Pyramid, Boris Said, I guess.
		And with him tonight is Tom Danley.
		Now, who's Tom Danley?
		Well, Tom is the engineer, a one-time consultant to NASA, and is a sonic engineer.
		And guess what he did?
		He's the one who did all the sonic tests in the king's chamber of the Great Pyramid in Egypt, a place I just happened to get to go recently, to have fond and recent memories of.
		In fact, it will be etched into my life forever.
		So, obviously, we are going to talk about the pyramids.
		Now, we're going to also talk about the secret chamber believed to be located beneath the left paw of the Sphinx and what indeed may be awaiting there.
		But first, this.
		I want to tell you a really, truly amazing story.
		Last year, in my state, he says proudly, of Nevada, Bosfargo Bank discovered all of these coins, these $20 gold pieces.
		What a discovery that must have been lying maybe in a dark corner of the vault, or I wonder where they found them.
		That, of course, is something you will find out in the history of these coins, which they will send you free of charge.
		So get a paper, pencil.
		These coins, and there are many, many, many of them, are absolutely astounding, not just because of the quantity, they found many, but because of the quality.
		As I've told you, a fine coating of gold dust, which is typical normally of coins fresh from the mint, was found on the coins.
		So what they initially did is to take photographs of the coins because these coins were minted, all of them, in 1908, about 90 years ago.
		But they're so fresh, so new, that there's still this fine coating of gold dust.
		Now, what they will do is send you free information on the history of these coins and photographs of these coins.
		So you might see for yourself, free of charge.
		Take a look.
		1-800-359-4255 is the number.
		1-800-359-4255.
unidentified		425.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		All right.
		Let us see if we can connect with the parties involved.
		I suspect on this line, Boris Saeed.
		I'm here.
unidentified		Good evening, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, Boris.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great to have you back on the program.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's nice to be back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let us see if the other half of this connects.
		Tom Danley, hello there.
		Hi, how are you doing?
		Hi, Tom.
		Where are you, Tom?
		Near Chicago.
		Near Chicago.
		And Boris is up in Washington on some kind of island or something, right, Boris?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Friday Harbor in the beautiful San Juan Islands.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so both of us are here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that it would be appropriate, considering that we've got a lot of new affiliates we've been growing very quickly, Boris, for you to give us a little bit of background on yourself and then for Tom to do the same thing so we understand who we're talking to here.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I can tell you briefly that for the last eight years, I've been involved with making documentary films in Egypt.
		I started out with John Anthony West and Robert Schock, and we created a documentary special for NBC, which was hosted by Charlton Heston, which gave pretty conclusive evidence that the Sphinx was really 12,000 years old.
		And part of that evidence had to do with the way some of the stones were lifted in the temples, and that's where I met Tom.
		Tom was doing sonic levitation experiments, I believe in connection with work they were doing for NASA at the time, and we featured Tom on that program.
		A lot of people saw that program, over 200 million people so far.
		It's won an Emmy, and it was quite successful.
		That film, in doing some of the underground testing to try and validate Dr. Schock's opinion that the Sphinx had been exposed to the weather for several thousand years longer than anybody thought, in doing the seismic backup for the geology, we turned up a 30-by-40-foot chamber under the paws of the Great Sphinx, which coincidentally was right where Edgar Casey said it Would be.
		We then spent a couple of years trying to get permission to drill directly into that room without much success.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let me stop you there, Boris, because you're getting into the story itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The guy who operated the equipment that found the chamber was Dubeke, wasn't it?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Tom Dubeck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		or Tom DeBecky.
		But Tom Danley, who's on the line with us, Okay.
		Hi.
unidentified		I'm an inventor and engineer and primarily work in the acoustics and electronic area.
		And most of my life I've worked in the acoustic field.
		And when I met Boris, that's what I was doing at Intersonics.
		Intersonics was a NASA contractor.
		We built flight hardware for the shuttle and sounding rockets.
		And Boris's crew came out to the factory to film levitation.
		And that's where I met him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I saw in the videotape that Boris has, I saw your levitation of a material object with nothing but sound.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you do that, Tom?
unidentified		Well, the technique that we used requires a fairly intense sound field.
unidentified		You can begin to levitate, let's say, something low density like styrofoam with around 150 decibels, which is quite loud.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of what frequency, of any frequency or of a lower frequency?
unidentified		Well, in the film that you saw, we were using a high frequency, around 22 kilohertz or 22,000 vibrations a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that would be very painful to the human ear, wouldn't it?
unidentified		Well, if you stuck your ear directly in the sound field, yeah, it would be extremely loud.
unidentified		The high frequency like that, though, your ears are already not very sensitive to it, where if, say, it were an octave or two octaves lower, it would be extremely uncomfortable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From a technical perspective, why a high frequency versus something very v low, which you would think would carry more oomph with it in terms of levitation ability?
unidentified		Well, the size of the object that you're trying to levitate is pretty much governs the frequency that you need to use.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah, the size of the samples that we were dealing with at Intersonics, they were about the size of a P, let's say.
unidentified		That's around the quarter wavelength size for a 20 kilohertz signal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, it's got to be r roughly resonant with the object's size.
unidentified		Well, there is a range.
		It's not a hard and fast limit, but the largest thing that you can levitate is about a quarter of a wavelength across.
		And the smallest thing that you can levitate would be maybe a tenth of a wavelength across.
		So within that range, you can levitate objects.
		So a low-frequency sound would allow you to levitate a very large object.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		The reason for the connection to the research between sonic levitation and the pyramids, from a layman's point of view here, has got to be that somebody, probably Boris and others, have speculated that the way the pyramids were built was with possibly some sort of sound or acoustic levitation.
		In other words, how the heck did they get those great big rocks up there?
		But your experiments, Tom, don't really demonstrate that there would be any way to convert that, do they, to something that would lift a rock that weighs how much for us?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Two and a half tons, some of the stones weigh.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		And some of the ones down in the lower temples, in the Sphinx Temple, in the Valley Temple, weigh upwards of 200 tons.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in the range of 20 to 200 tons, Tom, what can you levitate?
unidentified		Well, I can't levitate anything.
		No, it's, in theory, you could still do it.
		It would be difficult to produce that much sound.
		And for low frequencies, it would be rather dangerous sound levels for the people that were involved being around.
		It's possible, though, that sound was used for other things, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I would like to just stop you and ask you, in your professional opinion, is there any way with technology you can even imagine that they could have used sonics to lift these incredible rocks, and particularly as high as they did?
unidentified		Not that I see, no.
		Short of having a time machine, though, you can't really say how they did it.
		Like I said, though, there are other things that sound could have been used for, like to reduce the friction of moving the stones.
		If you have something that's vibrating, moving an object across it, it will have much less friction if there's vibration involved.
		So that's another possibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even when you talk to Dr. Zahi Was, Director of Antiquities over there, and you ask him how the pyramids were built, he goes, I don't know.
		He said, oh, I don't know.
		That's part of the mystery.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, if I can jump in for a second, I'd like to point something out.
		When we interviewed, when we did the experiments in the first show, we interviewed a guy with a giant crane.
		He had some humongous great crane, the largest land-based movable crane in the world or something.
		And he flat said, I don't see any way you could lift these stones, even using two cranes.
		Now, what I think Tom's experiments suggest is that in theory it could have been done.
		And yes, we don't know how it's done today, but 50 years ago, we didn't know how to float an object the size of a P without touching it.
		So the point is that if the principle works in a tiny object, why then couldn't a combination of these principles, why isn't it just logical to assume that we will ultimately figure out how to lift bigger and better objects?
unidentified		Well, it's true.
		The principles don't prohibit it from happening.
		And if they did have a way of producing the intensity and frequency that was desired, it would be possible to do.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it leads us into where we hope to be going next year with our series of specials.
		And that is the investigation of the principle of vibration as expressed in sound.
		Dr. Jim Hertog from the Academy for Future Science suggested to me one day that, in layman's terms, the pyramid was the world's biggest music box.
		And certainly the tests that we did with Tom there this last trip suggest that it was designed and built with materials that all contributed to enhancing certain resonant frequencies, which may have had a specific purpose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The part of Tom's work with regard to the pyramids that I find most interesting is that done inside the king's chamber.
		I agree.
		Tom, I got an opportunity to go over there a couple of months ago.
		Got in fact a lion's sarcophagus.
unidentified		Oh, excellent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And hummed and talked and was astounded.
		I guess astounding is the only word I can think of by the, and I still have yet to put together all the right words to even describe it inwards what I felt.
		I haven't been able to quite do that yet.
		But what I got in return was a total body feeling of some sort.
		In other words, the resonance produced in there affected my entire body.
		And I'm not sure one of these days I'm going to come up with the right words for it.
		Now, obviously, you have just made a very long climb.
		It's hot.
		And you're almost in an altered state already by the time you get up there.
		But that did not change what I felt when I got in that sarcophagus.
		So what did you find sonically up there?
unidentified		Well, there's a couple layers to that, to the answer.
		And yes, I certainly have to agree.
		The acoustic effect laying in there is absolutely phenomenal.
		What really got me interested was when Boris called and said, you know, when you're laying in there, you won't believe what it sounds like.
		And acoustically, I thought, yeah, okay.
		But no, it is very remarkable and unlike anything I've ever heard myself.
		What we found was a couple things.
		There are resonances in any room due to the dimensions of the room.
		And that would also be true of the sarcophagus.
		And what we found was that when you're, for a person that was laying in the sarcophagus, several of the resonances of the sarcophagus and the room happened to coincide at the same frequency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How is that possible?
		In other words, the sarcophagus being of the size it is, and when you lie in it, of course, you have four walls about you and an open area above you to the rest of the king's chamber.
		Now, wouldn't the frequency, resonant frequency, be dependent on the size of the enclosure?
unidentified		Yes, the lowest frequency that there would be resonances would be set by the absolute dimension.
		However, at multiples of those, in other words, where Yeah, harmonics, exactly.
		So a room will have quite a series of resonances set by the dimensions of the room.
		And several of the higher order resonances in the chamber coincide with the fundamental resonances that are in the sarcophagus.
		although the room is much larger, there are several of those resonances which overlap and energy can be transferred from one to the other.
		In other words, if...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, a multiple.
		Right.
		The sarcophagus would be a multiple, I would think, higher in resonance than the rest of the king's chamber?
unidentified		Yes.
		If you looked at the spectrum of sound in the king's chamber itself, it actually starts well below audibility.
		And that maybe we should come back to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, let's say whether right now, generally, what does an average human being hear at the low and high end?
unidentified		Well, if you looked in a textbook, the answer to that question would be from about 20 vibrations per second to, if you have good ears, around 20,000 vibrations a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So 20 hertz to 20K.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Now, in reality, it's the response or sensitivity of your ears doesn't just stop at either end.
		It just, your sensitivity declines as you approach either end.
		So you actually can hear sounds that are much lower than 20 hertz.
		We built a sonic boom simulator as one of the projects at Intersonics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A sonic boom simulator?
unidentified		Yeah.
		A system to produce sounds on the outside of a house, which would be equivalent to uh the uh NASA space plane going over.
		And um that system produced sound down to three vibrations per second.
		And once you have enough intensity, even a very low frequency like three hertz is audible.
		Your threshold of hearing is around 120 dB, so you have to produce a fair amount of sound, but you still can hear it.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Tom, when we were in the king's chamber that night and everybody got frightened and you were getting lower and lower, how far down do you think we heard?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Remember when it all seemed to start to shiver and we all ran out of the chamber?
unidentified		Rain when we sat up in the hall instead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know about this night, Boris.
unidentified		I'm sorry?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'd not told me about this.
unidentified		I'm sorry.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		When we were testing one night, Tom got all his equipment set up and all of us, the whole crew, everybody, down.
		I'll tell you, as far as I was concerned, I thought we were having an earthquake.
		It was extraordinary.
		And everybody sort of looked at everybody sideways and nervously looked up at the ceiling and then fled like jackrabbits out through the tunnel and into the grand gallery from which we watched the rest of the proceeding.
		I mean, it was an amazing experience.
		How low down do you think?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many of you were there total?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		What do you think, Tom?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Seven or eight?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Seven or eight of you.
		All taking off like frightened chickens.
		All right, you two.
unidentified		Hold on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		Somehow, I can't picture that, particularly at night.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		When it's all right, it's coming over.
		We gotta get it right, we've got it all.
		We got it right back to where we started from.
		We got it right back to where we started from.
		To talk with Art Bell from west of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		That's 1-800-618-8255.
		Now again, here's Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here I am.
		And guess what, folks?
		I've got two supremely good reasons for you to go to my website right now.
		Reason number one is to see a diagram of the secret chamber that lies below the Sphinx and where we believe the tunnel to it goes, the access to it goes.
		So just a simple little graphic with a picture of the pyramid in the background and the Sphinx and the tunnel and what is believed to be under it.
		Now that's in the new section of the website.
		But now let me give you a second grand reason to go up there.
		All right?
		We have a new product.
		This product, we should all bow down three times to the East, or maybe in this case, the West, the East, I suppose, and thank the German people for.
		As you know, I working here doing a network program.
		I don't need to tell you, or maybe I do, time is incredibly important, incredibly important.
		I must have a dead accurate clock or I'm doomed.
		Well, I have fought the battle of the clocks now for a couple of years and tried different wall clocks, you know, that kind of thing.
		And then, of course, there is the second horrendous issue with time other than inaccurate clocks.
		And that is that if you live in one of the many unfortunate states that twice a year have to change their time, I don't know about you, but I get angry.
		I spend half a day changing my clocks.
		All right, we now have a new product.
		Listen to me very, very carefully.
		It is called the Zeit clock.
		It's from Germany, and I'm no doubt not saying it properly as the Germans would say it.
		It is, the best way I can think to describe the clock to you is, do you remember in school when they had a clock that goes?
		I do because I watched it a lot.
		It used to be a hobby of mine, watching the clock.
		And that is the kind of clock that I have to have for the kind of accuracy in time that I need.
		Now, this new product is a full-size 12-inch wall clock.
		If you go to my website right now, I did not take a good photograph of it.
		I just took my little studio camera and pointed at my clock on the wall.
		So it's kind of at an angle.
		But I want you to go to my studio livecam studio shot and take a look at this clock.
		Now, let me tell you about this clock, in case you can't see it.
		This clock is accurate to within one second in a million years.
		One second in a million years.
		How can they do it?
		Well, they do it by radio.
		This clock runs on a single AA battery.
		This clock receives signals that you would never hear, silent radio signals, that come from the National Bureau of Standards in Boulder, Colorado, where they've got an atomic clock, a cesium clock.
		And many times every hour, this clock automatically sets itself with the atomic clock in Colorado.
		Now, is that cool or what?
		Now, it automatically, brace yourselves, it automatically changes from Pacific daylight time to Pacific time or, you know, whatever time zone you're in.
		Or if you don't change, you can set it not to change.
		So in other words, when the day comes to change, it knows, and it automatically changes itself.
unidentified		Hallelujah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hallelujah.
		And when you first get it, you will notice you put it up, put the battery in, you don't set the clock.
		You just wait.
		And in a few minutes, it gets a signal and it starts going around like crazy.
		The second hand's going, and it keeps going until it sets itself, and then it stays accurate to within one second in a million years.
		Guess what else?
		This clock has temperature and humidity dials on it as well.
		It is the clock I am using, and it can be the clock you use too.
		Guess how much?
		Now, I've got to tell you right up front, they're all going to sell out later today.
		This is an introductory product, but right now, the price is $99.95.
		$99.95.
		It is an utterly, totally automatic clock.
		If you want one, get one in the morning by calling Bob Crane.
unidentified		Good luck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would do it early.
		They open the doors at 7.30 a.m.
		7.30 a.m.
		And if you want to see it, just go up to my website and click on the live studio cam.
		And it's a poor shot.
		I'll try and get a better one, as a matter of fact, to get up there shortly.
		But I wanted you to see this.
		It is so cool.
		One of my guests, Tom Danley, who was a consultant to NASA and is a sonic engineer.
		And, of course, Boris Said.
		Gentlemen, you're back on the air.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I further should ask you what time it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, well, I can tell you exactly on the West Coast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is 10.42 and 55 seconds mark.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Mark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This clock is so cool.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Can I say something just briefly to your listeners who wrote in and ordered our tape at the last show?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		We were delayed about 10 days in production.
		We discovered a production glitch when all the tapes were ready to go out.
		And so those of you who have not gotten your tapes, you're going to get them.
		Patience, and thank you.
		You all ought to have your tapes in the next week or so.
unidentified		Okay.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're welcome.
		And by the way, you know, I just thought of something.
		I gave the exact time and I said Mark, but I have a six-second delay.
		And then I have about another second delay or so by satellite.
		So you shouldn't have made me do that.
		People are going to sit out there and say, hey, man, that clock's wrong.
		Sorry about that.
		Anyway, let us go back now to the king's chamber.
		And Tom, you said there was a relationship harmonically between the actual sarcophagus and the king's chamber itself.
		And you began to tell me about all of you running out of there.
		Now, was this at night?
unidentified		Yes, this was, yeah, sure.
unidentified		I think it was about, we usually started around 8 o'clock or 9 o'clock in the evening.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think it was about then.
		As I recall, I mean, what's the difference?
		It's dark in there anyway, right?
		We had our own lights.
		We had our own illumination for the light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's dead dark in there.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we had full lights going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what actually began to happen?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Tom?
unidentified		Well, we did the first test we did were higher frequencies in the sarcophagus itself.
		We put a loudspeaker and a microphone in the sarcophagus and took those measurements.
		Then we switched to a speaker that produces very low frequencies called a phoenix cyclone.
		And that we put in the King's chamber itself and repeated the same type of measurement, but now going down to below audibility frequency-wise.
		And as we swept through the various resonances, we found several in the low frequency region that were quite strong.
		And those are in the range, let's say, of a very low note on a pipe organ, if you can picture that.
		And exciting those resonances with that sound source produces a fair amount of sound.
		And in fact, it was kind of scary at one point the effect that that has.
		I mean, it certainly hits your fight or flight reflexes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does it, really?
unidentified		Yes.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		It's just an earthquake.
		It was extraordinary.
		I mean, you know, none of us were faint-hearted in that room.
		And I'll tell you what, it was a fight to see who got out of there first.
unidentified		We decided it was better to set up in the hallway.
		What were you, what frequently?
		The strongest resonance would be somewhere around the lowest note on a pipe organ, which is below 20 hertz.
		But we also found resonances that went down much lower than that.
		And the part of it that I think was most interesting, or curious to me anyway, was that we had made a DAT recording, which is a digital tape recording of everything we did.
		And after we got back home, had a chance to analyze the recordings in the computer, one of the things that showed up was the presence of several of these low-frequency resonances, even when we weren't producing any sound.
		Those frequencies were present in the king's chamber all by themselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How is that possible?
unidentified		Well, I made a mathematical model of the rough structure of the pyramid and treating it as simply as possible, acoustically, and saying that the air shafts and the room itself were similar to blowing across the neck of a pop bottle, which is called a Helmholtz resonance.
		And if you, what started me thinking about that was a movie clip that Boris sent me that shows the clouds and things blowing around the outside of the pyramid.
		So you certainly have a reasonable source of excitation with the wind, and the dimensions of everything involved are such that the frequencies that would be produced are right in the same range of what we found.
		In fact, the...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because when I was in the king's chamber, I saw no opening.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's two.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		There's one on the north wall and one on the south wall, aren't you, Tom?
unidentified		Well, the king's chamber passages are blocked off by the what they call the star shafts or air shafts.
		And it's, I think, somewhat questionable whether those are star shafts or not, because if they were, you would think they would be set up so that you could sight through them.
		But instead, they go about 10 feet straight and then angle up.
		If you take the model and include both of those air shafts and look at the prediction and then say, okay, well, those are closed off.
		Let's model the main tunnel that goes into the king's chamber.
		You end up with something that's almost exactly the same.
		So acoustically, what you would expect with the air shafts being open is pretty similar to what you have using the access tunnel that El Mammon carved to get in there.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		There are things also, Art, that when they built the pyramid, the sides were smooth.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		So that effect of the wind blowing, if it was in fact the air shafts, which we have to assume at one point were probably open, if the sides of the pyramid were smooth, then the effect would have been more pronounced.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why are there air shafts in there in the first place?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		What a great question.
		Are they air shafts, or were they not part of the pyramid as a giant great resonance chamber or music box or a scientific instrument of transformation, which is what I think it is?
		In other words, if the whole thing was designed, I mean, it's beyond comprehension, it's beyond any sort of mathematical possibility that it's just accidental that the sarcophagus and the room complement each other.
		And it's beyond the realm of possibility, I think, that if you take those star shafts that Tom was talking about, or those air shafts, and you assume that at one point they were open, otherwise, why would they have built them?
		And of course, Gantenbrink's robotic camera found that there was a door at the end of one of them, I think, from the Queen's Chamber.
		If, in fact, those were part of this great vibrational instrument, then we're looking at the proof of an advanced society before our very eyes, which is what my premise has been from the very beginning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tom, how likely do you think that is?
unidentified		Well, initially I would be skeptical of that.
		However, there are some things that sort of back that up.
		If you looked at the field of meditation, for example, meditation was the first way people were able to control the state of their brain activity.
		You learned a procedure which led to a change in brainwave state.
		Then there was biofeedback that monitored your brainwaves and gave you a better access to what you were doing and would allow you to change states much quicker than a learning meditation routine.
		One of the things that's popular right now are what they call light and sound machines that have headphones and glasses with lights in them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		And the idea with that is you present your brain with a stimulus that it just can't ignore.
unidentified		And you're sort of taken on a meditation ride.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so that is, in essence, what occurs inside the sarcophagus, inside the king's chamber itself, is a sort of an altered state, is produced even by the natural, forget the Tom Danley equipment, sonics, and all the rest of it, by this subtle but very interesting frequency combination.
unidentified		Yes, and the very lowest frequencies that we found are certainly in the range of your brain activity.
		In other words, the frequencies correspond.
		The lowest frequency that we saw was around three vibrations per second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
		Oh my, that's very low.
		Uh, Tom, what is the Schumann resonance?
unidentified		That's, excuse me, I have a frog in my throat tonight.
		Um, one of those is the set by the time it takes, excuse me, a radio signal to travel around the Earth.
		And it's, as I recall, six or seven vibrations per second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, exactly.
		I think it's around, uh, actually around 7.3 or 7.8, I can't recall.
		But somewhere right in that range.
		In other words, we might think of that as the actual frequency of the Earth itself.
		Is that reasonable?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		A lot of people refer to it like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's not a surprise then that our basic brain waves or effect on our brain is achieved at about the same frequency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, maybe it's a stretch, but we are, in a way, in tune ourselves with the Earth.
unidentified		Yeah, and I believe the alpha level of brain activity is right around seven cycles per second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there you go.
		So it's reasonable to conclude that the Earth's frequency affects us.
		Not so reasonable to conclude we affect it.
		However, however, I've had recent guests who have suggested the Schuman frequency is, for some reason, unaccountably rising.
		Have you heard that?
unidentified		No.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I've heard it on your program.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		And I've heard it suggested that perhaps the pyramids were monitoring devices by which our extraterrestrial neighbors could keep an eye on what was happening with the vibrations on Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One has to wonder if the Schuman frequency were to change, whether eventually that would have an effect on the human brain itself.
unidentified		Well, it's conceivable.
unidentified		I mean, we're tied into the environment in ways that people are still beginning to understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sounds like you've got yourself quite a cold there, Tom.
unidentified		Yes, I have to apologize.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		If I can step in and bail Tom out, there's an interesting thing.
		It's brought out in our tape.
		These notes that Tom discovered, among other things, form an F-sharp chord.
		Now, I'm not a musician.
		I'm sure there are a lot of musicians listening.
		I know, for example, that our composer suggested when he heard the notes that it sounded a little like Jimi Hendrix's Purple Haze.
		But we found an extraordinary thing, and we brought this out in our film as well, when we got out to Oregon, we interviewed a Yaqui, a Native American Yaqui maker of ceremonial flutes, a fellow named Ward Stroud.
		And Ward suggested that many of the native shamans, when they made their sacred flutes, which were made to serenade Mother Earth originally, many of these flutes are tuned to the same F-sharp chord.
		So, in fact, many of these American flutes that are handmade from hardwood 12,000 miles away are tuned to the same frequencies as 2.5 million blocks of stone in Cairo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would they do that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, is it just a sound that we would recognize and immediately identify with at a level we wouldn't even consciously understand?
unidentified		Well, probably.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I mean, certainly the shaman knew.
		I mean, that's what made them shaman.
		They corresponded with the earth.
		They made flutes originally to serenade the earth, and then they were used to serenade their ladies and so forth.
		But they presumably knew what they were doing.
unidentified		All right.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Somehow, mystically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Boris Saeed and Tom Danley are my guests, and they will be back following the news at the top of the hour.
		And we are discussing sonics for now.
		We are going to get to the secret chamber, so stay right where you are.
unidentified		KSTP
		KSTP
		to first-time callers at Area Code 702-727-1222.
		That's Area Code 702-727-1222.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
unidentified		Now again, here's Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yeah, I'm always jumping the gun.
		Tom Danley, who's a sonic engineer, once consulted to NASA in that regard.
		And of course, Boris Saeed are my guests, and we are talking inevitably about the pyramids, specifically the sonic vibrations right now, the Great Pyramid.
		We'll get back to that in a moment.
		Just a small programming note.
		I have booked for this Friday night, Saturday morning, Whitley Streeber.
		And it's been a while, and Whitley has an incredible story to tell you about what's going on in Wyoming, and I'm not going to say any more about it than that.
		But believe me, he's got quite a story.
		So, Whitley Streeber, this coming Friday night and Saturday morning, whichever way you want to look at it.
		Now, back to Tom Daddley and Boris Said.
		All right, gentlemen, Boris, are there any questions that you think we should be asking, Tom, with regard to the sonics in the pyramid that we have not yet asked?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there is.
		There's one question, and it's a general question, and I don't want to put you on the spot, Tom, but there have been, in my lifetime, pieces of music that we just gravitate to.
		Sometimes it's because of the words like White Christmas, what have you.
		Sometimes, in the case of Jimi Hendrix, it's just like one song like Purple Haze.
		I mean, people who weren't even fans, we're humming that sound.
		We're making that sound.
		If we're living in a vibrational world, if we're living in a world of vibration, and vibration can be most easily interpreted as music, it can be color as well, do you think it's possible, Tom, that we could establish around the world that these sacred sites, stone sites, cathedrals, stone circles, what have you, have been built with a certain sonic logic?
		And I know you have a paper that speaks to that in England, but do you think that this is a wild goose chase, or do you think we're really looking for something we might be able to actually demonstrate?
unidentified		No, I think there is something to it.
		It's only been in the last 20 or 30 years that detailed analysis of buildings has been possible through acoustic theory.
		However, some of the very best listening halls that have ever existed were built long before any of that.
		And you mentioned the paper that showed some of the ancient structures in Ireland and England apparently had been built to help reinforce the sound of the human voice.
		And so I think acoustics has gone from sort of a mystical black art into a formal science.
		But I also believe very strongly that in ancient times there were people that were very skillful and knowledgeable of acoustics, although maybe not in the same way that we are now, that designed, you know, say some of the cathedrals and halls and stuff like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tom, I've got a question for you that is off the wall and doesn't relate to what we're talking about, at least not directly.
		I have heard of noise cancellation.
		In other words, that it would be possible to take the noise coming from an aircraft, for example, or a jet or something, and emanate a signal as well that would, for the listener on the ground, in essence, cancel the sound of the aircraft.
		Is that possible?
unidentified		Well, to some degree it is, yeah.
		Basically what you're producing is a sound that is exactly out of phase or the inverse of the offending signal.
		And when the two mix together, they cancel each other out.
		There are a number of companies that make equipment to do that job for, well, air ducts is one field where it's fairly popular to cancel the noise coming through an air conditioning duct, let's say.
		And also on machinery, it's something that's done not in common practice, but it's certainly possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		My question would be this.
		Let's say that you successfully canceled the sound of a jet engine, just for the sake of the discussion.
		There would then be two opposite sounds 180 degrees out of phase with each other.
		You would hear, the end result is you would hear nothing.
		But would you still be aware of the presence of the sound?
		I'm not sure I'm asking this properly, but the sound would still be there.
		It simply would be canceled.
		So if it were many, many decibels, would your ears still be subject to that pressure?
unidentified		No, actually, what you're doing when you cancel the sound is you erase the pressure part of it.
		The difficulty, though, is that, well, in the case of an airplane flying by, the closer to the source you can place your cancellation signal, the more effective you are at canceling the signal over the entire area.
		If you had, let's say, a microphone on a pole in your backyard and a speaker system to do the job, you could cancel some of the sound locally, in other words, in your yard, as the plane flew over.
		But that would be for fairly low frequencies where the dimensions of the wavelengths are large.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Now, back to the king's chamber at Giza.
		Tom, what do you think the purpose of that pyramid was or is?
		Surely we have not found pharaohs or people buried there?
unidentified		No, that's True.
		I don't know if I don't have my own theory, that's for sure, but what I can say after actually being there and going in a number of the places that we went to that I went to with Boris, a couple things strike me, that for one thing, the Egyptians were very skilled at building tunnels and caves underground.
		We went in one that was over 100 feet deep and had several different levels.
		And the pyramid also has several underground passages that appear to come up underneath the structure itself.
		They're all blocked off now, but given the ease with which they were tunneling, it's very easy to imagine that there was an underground access to the inside of the pyramid.
		That would be one observation.
		The other thing is that a lot of the theories about the pyramid say that it wasn't a tomb.
		And certainly the fact that they never found any mummies or anything else that directly pointed to that sort of supports that.
		If the pyramid were constructed to be a temple or a site of a ritual, then you have a whole different scenario possible that the sound part of the system was intentional and was designed into it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually designed to produce an altered state.
		All right.
		Then a next obvious question, Tom, is couldn't you duplicate the acoustic properties of the pyramid, for example, on a C D or with some sort of computer generated sound return to a sound you would make.
		I'm asking, in some way, would it be possible to come up with something that would duplicate the altered state produced by actually being there?
unidentified		At least to some approximation you could, yeah.
		One of the things that's completely unique about the pyramid acoustically, though, is you have a situation where you have a structure that is about as rigid as it's possible to make.
		I mean, if you think of hundreds of feet of stone all around you, that is a fairly solid object.
		And so obviously that circumstance you wouldn't run into in a normal house or even one made of bricks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the suggestion there would be there are properties when you're actually in the pyramid that go beyond simply the sonics produced by?
unidentified		Well, the fact that it is so rigid makes it have its own set of unique acoustic properties.
		You could, on the other hand, produce those same frequencies with the, well, the speaker that I used to test with, the cyclone, that's capable of producing those frequencies too.
		So you could set that up in a room and try and approximate the experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you done that?
unidentified		No, in fact, just as the words left my mouth, it occurred to me, gosh, I should try and set that up.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, what you guys are doing is reading the script to our second show because one of the things we hope to do here next year, early in the year, is do some tests down in Mexico and Central America and some of those pyramids and then do some comparison studies.
		And I'm going to ask Tom to make a computer model and to see if we can approximate somehow these vibrations and then do some tests.
		And hopefully with some of the people that are testing in this field like Dr. Valerie Hunt, people like that, if we can get them interested in this idea, that's how I hope to prove that Atlantis isn't buried.
		I think we're going to find it.
		I think we've found it.
		It's just a question of describing it in terms we can all understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can tell you one thing that Zahiawa said to me when we were standing by that square hole in the side of the Sphinx, Boris.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He said, not one shred of evidence, not one grain of sand, not one thing ever found here at Giza leads toward any conclusion or proof that Atlantis will be found.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Okay, tell me how come you and Tom used the same words.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		You both lay in the sarcophagus, and you came out and you were astonished and amazed and astounded.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You use that for one second, but I'm not sure how that relates to Atlantis.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, the point is this, that Atlantis is a word that we've used to describe sort of generically some pretty clever ancestors.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		And whether they were Atlanteans or Egyptians, I'm sure if we stopped calling them Atlanteans and started calling them Egyptians, we'd get a lot more support in Egypt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think you're probably right.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		But the point is, the point is that nobody I've ever talked to who's been a tourist, who's gone around Egypt, normal, intelligent people capable of earning enough money to go to Egypt on holiday, and they go through all the tombs of the Left Bank and they go through all the tombs on the Giza Plateau and then they go to the pyramid.
		Not anybody that I've ever talked to in 10 years of working over there has ever said to me, gee, this feels like a tomb.
		Everybody comes out and says the one thing we're sure it's not is a tomb.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I agree.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Now, you know, Zahi Hawaz is a friend, and I have utmost respect for him, and I think he's an Egyptologist and an archaeologist and a very bright guy.
		But I don't think he's correct in this assumption.
		I think that he is discounting the kind of stuff that Tom DeBecky and Tom Danley are turning up, which I think speaks to a highly advanced society which created this rational logical structure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I couldn't agree more, but that does not have to automatically lead to Atlantis or point to the fact that it was an Atlantis society.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could have been whoever was there before the Egyptians.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Oh, exactly.
		I've never, I mean, Bob Schock said that in her first tape, even if they're Martians or little green men or Atlanteans, I'm just saying that there was something here 25,000 years ago that was very advanced.
		And that's all we're trying to establish.
		We're not trying to put a name to it.
		I think that Atlantis kind of has a mythos about it.
		It's like if you don't understand it, ascribe it to God and the angels.
		I mean, that's sort of the way our society works.
		But I don't think that's the answer.
		I think we have to keep digging and looking and finding out if this is a logical system, who built it and to what purpose?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I kind of like the idea that I had a little while ago, and that is, again, I don't have words to describe what I felt in the sarcophagus in the chamber.
		There aren't words.
		However, it seems to me that if the totality of the experience is produced by the sonic properties in there, that that should be able to be precisely plotted and duplicated.
		It should be able to be done.
		And if that would be true, you would then have the opportunity to test and see if you could produce an altered state similar to the one that you get in there.
		And that would seem to me to be a very, very worthwhile endeavor experiment.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's our cause.
		That's our purpose for the next year, Art.
		That's exactly what we're setting out to do with Jim Hurtock and Tom and Tom DeBecky.
		We're setting out to try and do exactly that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, if you don't get the same results, then you've got to begin to imagine there are properties with respect to the pyramid that obviously go beyond the sonic properties.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it would be a wonderful way of narrowing down at least a little bit what we're trying to figure out here.
unidentified		Sure.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, don't forget, Art, that the pyramid is very precisely placed.
		It's probably the most precisely located structure on the face of the Earth.
		And that perhaps has something to do with it, the directions and the magnetic poles.
		And if you talk to Dick Hoagland, the location of the pyramid is central to the Earth and to the landmass and God knows and corresponds to locations on Mars.
		I mean, there are all sorts of possible coincidences.
		And I use the word coincidences in a different way, but I mean, there are a lot of factors here, which may have been part of an initial design to create an extraordinary structure that we haven't scratched the surface yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tom, how carefully have you documented what sonic properties there are in the Great Pyramid, and specifically from within the sarcophagus?
unidentified		Well, excuse me, I did a series of measurements that seemed appropriate at the time.
		I did the sarcophagus by itself and then the king's chamber.
		And I also measured the air shafts in the queen's chamber.
		And the tape recordings that we made, those we brought home and analyzed further using a very sophisticated packet called hyperception.
		And so the information that we got, I think, is quite good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would it be sufficient enough to duplicate the sounds in the lab?
unidentified		I think so.
unidentified		One of the questions that...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I think everybody out there knows what I'm driving at, don't you?
		Can you imagine a computer or a C D that could take you exactly where you go when you go to the pyramids?
		Now, that would be quite a product, wouldn't it?
		He thinks commercially.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Gideon, Benadon, Gideon, Gideon.
		Gideon.
		The Talk Station, AM 1500 KSTP.
		The Talk Station, AM 1500 KSTP.
		I feel every moment in my foot of the clay.
		The Star Wars.
		Only home watching love to take home as you come down today.
		Stay my breath away.
		Art Bell is taking your calls on the Wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
		That's 702-727-1295.
		This is Coast to Coast AM from the Kingdom of Nigh with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and I want to tell you that if you've got a computer, a PC, an IBM clone, well, you better get ready to pull $99 out of your pocket.
		I had a Snappy about a year ago, and we sold it at that point for some distributor, and I thought it was An amazing product.
		I mean, it would take a VCR camcorder or TV signal, and you could actually, it's so neat, the software.
		They've got a little preview window, and you can see what's playing in the recorder, or your camcorder, or TV signal, or whatever.
		And the minute you see a picture that you want, you just would go click, and it would put a picture on your PC, a still photograph.
		Well, they sent me the new Snappy and the new Snappy software about a week ago, and I have never in my life seen anything like it.
		The new software, version 3.0, and the new chip, the play chip, they produce stills that, if anything, come out with more resolution than the original.
		Now, I don't know how that is possible.
		This chip does it in a proprietary manner.
		But it works.
		Now, you don't have to open up your computer to add Snappy because your Snappy plugs right into the parallel port, same place where you plug in your printer.
		And then you just hook up the video output of a recorder or a TV or a camcorder or whatever.
		And you're in business.
		You can use it for newsletters, putting stuff on websites, as I do, school reports, business proposals, you name it.
		As a matter of fact, the new Snappy software even allows you to attach them and send them in email.
		This thing is beyond belief.
		It is available nationwide at any computer store.
		So what I'm telling you is, if you've got a PC of any sort and you don't have Snappy, believe me, you don't have a whole PC.
		So go to your favorite local computer store and say, I want Snappy, and that'll be that.
		Price, $99.
		Snappy.
		All right, back now to my guests, Tom Danley and Boris Saeed.
		Gentlemen, welcome back.
		I've got something I want to read you here, which I think is dead accurate.
		Art, here we go again.
		If you want some proof that Egyptians, as we know of them, did not build the Great Pyramid, look at Cairo.
		You know, I remember standing on Giza, looking at the pyramids and the Sphinx, and turning around the other direction and looking at Cairo, and the man has a point.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, you know, and we're building shopping malls, too.
		You know, John West once said that our civilization would be remembered for striped toothpaste and shopping malls.
		I mean, our civilization is in decline, and I think that Cairo is as fitting an example as New York City, for that matter.
		You know, I mean, it's, I don't think, I mean, it's popular to go Egyptian bashing, but I think that the ancient Egyptians, whoever they were, built some of the most extraordinary monuments on earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		And we have now evolved with an artificial society into the point where you don't have to do stuff like this.
		Instead of creating vibrations to lift a stone, you fire up a diesel crane, you know, and pollute the atmosphere.
		I mean, that's the problem.
		We're going downhill, and it's not just the Egyptians that are declining ones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, I think part of science is confirmation, repeatability, and many times it is the elimination of things.
		And if we were to sonically duplicate precisely in a room, which I believe we could do, Tom Danley would be the guy, and we got the same altered state, we could then begin to conclude that that set of vibrations and harmonics present is indeed what produces the entirety of the experience there.
		And then, Tom, you'd be a multi-millionaire because you could produce something that would produce that altered state in people.
		So I'm giving you a great commercial idea.
		Or it wouldn't work at all, and we would then be able to eliminate the sonic component at least as the sole reason you feel what you feel up there.
unidentified		Well, I think at least of the first order, in the region of your voice, you probably could duplicate the acoustic effects in there.
		Possibly even on a computer sound card, a DSP system, you probably could do a pretty accurate job of producing the effect.
		Producing the sound that's present, that would take a specialized loudspeaker system in order to go down that low, but those exist too.
		I mean, that's what we used to test with.
		As far as making a million dollars, I like the idea of that, too.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		You know, you can hear a little of it.
		I mean, if you listen to the soundtrack on that tape I sent you, at the very end, over the credits rolling, we went down.
		We used the sound that Tom actually made from the highest down to the lowest.
		At the end, and I think people that have gotten that tape will have heard it.
		It just gives you some small hint as to what happens when you're actually there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's also the sound of the F-sharp flute.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which was very interesting.
		I just think it would be a remarkable experiment to do.
		Now, I understand it would take probably lab conditions.
		It would take the right kind of reflectors and very specific speaker systems producing low-frequency amplification and all the rest of it, but it sure would be worth a try.
unidentified		Yeah, I certainly am going to.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		All right, we're having a series of meetings this weekend with a gentleman who I hope is going to join us in just exactly this sort of an experiment.
		And he knows a lot about sound and making sound.
		And it's one of the things I'm going to be talking to Tom about literally over this weekend.
		But this is something we're about to do as a punchline to our next documentary.
		So we might have an answer for this in the next couple of months.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Very good.
		Tom, you were not involved in any of the Dubecky radar stuff, correct?
unidentified		Yeah, that's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I did go down in the well with Forrest a few times, so I know where he's talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that is a scary trip.
		Yes.
		I'm sure after you've done it several times, it gets to be not quite as scary.
		But the first time you go down, that is scary stuff, my opinion.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, I respect you for going down there.
		I'm glad that...
		Aren't you glad you went?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Oh, good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But at the time, you have quivering second thoughts, believe me.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, a representative of one of the major networks got down as far as the second level, and he fled.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		And as a matter of fact, we took him down there on Halloween, which was really funny a couple of years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, great.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		And he got as far as that first sarcophagus there at the second level, and that was as far as he was going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm out of here, guys.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		By the way, you know, you were talking about this snappy.
		I'd like to add a word of praise here.
		My webmaster, Matthew Sapparo, got one today, and he is, as we speak, taking images off my videotape and putting them on my website, which is, I guess, linked to yours, magicaleye.com.
		But he's raving about it.
		He called me up today, and he said it was the most extraordinary thing he's ever used.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it is.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		A lot of those images are actually going to be on the website during the course of tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good.
		Yes, I believe we have a link up to you.
		If we don't, we'll restore it.
		But I'm sure it's still there.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		It's magicaleye.com in any event.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
		All right.
		Tom, is there anything else you want to get out?
		We're going to continue with Boris, and I know you've got kind of a cold.
		Yeah, and I know it's late where you are as well.
		So is there anything else that you want to tell everybody you're going to do when you go back?
unidentified		Well, the things that I'd like to do going back would be mostly improving certain aspects of the measurements.
		There were a couple things I thought of after we got back that would have made sense to do, but I didn't think of beforehand.
		So there's that kind of stuff.
		Basically, I would just repeat a couple of the measurements and take more time with the digital tape recording the ambient sound.
		And all I can really say was that it was a fascinating trip, and I can't help but be very impressed with the pyramids and the people that built them.
		It's absolutely remarkable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If people built them.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Tom, my friend, then at this point, then I think I'm going to thank you, and I'm going to continue with Boris.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm going to look forward to hearing from you when you come back after this next trip.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tom, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
unidentified		Oh, thanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		That's Tom Danley from near Chicago, where it's a little bit later, and he's getting ready to go to bed, I suppose.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's a very brilliant guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just about everybody I know right now is down with a cold of some sort, Boris.
		Not me.
		Really?
unidentified		Yes, not me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then maybe you can carry me because mine lingers.
		Wow.
		Anyway.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I'll try it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You've got a lot going on.
		Now, the last time you were on the program, we talked a lot about the secret chamber that we believe to be below the Sphinx.
		Now, the one thing I did lift off your tape, which is on my website right now, is the diagram.
		I guess it's a picture of the pyramid and the Sphinx and a sort of a diagram that shows where you think this secret chamber is.
		Now, this was predicted by Edgar Cayce to be there.
		And I think Edgar Cayce said it would be opened in 98 or 99.
		I'm not sure.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you want to open it, don't you?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'd like to open it.
		I am not 100% convinced that the chamber we want to open is the one in the diagram.
		There may be a chamber beneath it, down a level, but we won't be able to find out until we get into the chamber in the diagram.
		In other words, the radar only bounces off one level at a time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		So if there's a deeper chamber, it may be deeper.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'd like to get in there, absolutely, simply because that's what seems to be motivating everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, there's nobody in Egypt who is going to let you drill or tunnel down below the Sphinx.
		They're just not going to let you do it.
		I agree.
		So, you now have shown what you believe to be a tunnel going from this chamber back toward the pyramid.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		And back towards the Sphinx.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, how sure are you that that is there?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm this sure.
		All right.
		The radar and the seismic tests indicate a 30 by 40 foot chamber about 30 feet below the pause.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		They indicate that they may be filled with rubble or some substance.
		They're not sure what's going on inside there.
		Debecki said it would appear to be half full of rubble.
		We also did radar tests across the back of the Sphinx in that 20-foot space between the rump and the cliff.
		And at that point, there is indications of a two and a half meter wide tunnel down about 15 feet.
		Now, immediately to the west of the rump of the Sphinx is the cliff, and you go up about 40 or 50 feet, and then the land begins to rise up towards the plateau.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		So the radar, which is accurate to about 50 feet, is useless the minute you get it up to the top of the cliff.
		However, there is a straight line coming out from under the Sphinx, which we've clearly documented, which establishes a direction in that 20 feet of excavated floor there behind the rump of the Sphinx, if you follow me.
		And that goes directly in the direction of the Chefron Pyramid, which coincidentally is exactly where the causeway goes.
		Now, 300 yards west of the rump of the Sphinx, directly under the causeway, is where that well chamber is that you went into and that we've got all the pictures of.
		And at the bottom of that well chamber, DeBecky's radar shows 2.5 meters down, under this, what we consider to be a fake sarcophagus lid, this polished black granite slab, under that is a cavity, which is 2.5 meters wide, has a dome ceiling, and according to Dr. DeBecki, heads off in the direction of the Sphinx precisely, descending it at an angle of about 25 degrees.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think that is the beginning of the tunnel that would take you down to the chamber below the Sphinx?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not going to say it's the beginning.
		I'm saying that there's a tunnel there.
		I have a feeling that the tunnels, that the Rosicrucians were probably right, that the pyramids, the three pyramids were linked to the Sphinx, and that there was probably some sort of temple-like structure to which all these tunnels came together and then went off in one grand tunnel to the Sphinx.
		And that temple-like structure may even be a part of what we are beginning to see at the bottom of that well chamber, because there are clearly some right angles down there and crumbled pillars and so forth.
		So what I'm saying is I think that there was an underground access, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that ultimately, this is a speculative question, of course, but that when we get to this chamber below the Sphinx, or even one below that, that we will discover the reason for the pyramids?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's certainly possible.
		You know, I wouldn't bet against it.
		I mean, Edgar Casey was a pretty clever guy, and he's been pretty accurate.
		So if he says the records are there, who am I to dispute it?
		What I think is that Tom and I are going to find the answer possibly before we're allowed to excavate.
		But in any event, we are certainly bent on getting into that chamber.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, how do you imagine you might find the answer before you can go there?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I think that if Tom's logic is valid and the pyramid is some sort of a giant residence chamber, and if this winter we're able to establish some sort of a relationship between the pyramid of Giza and the pyramids at Teotihuacan and Palenque,
		and if we're able to show that these structures did in fact have a sonic logic about them, then I think even the flittiest heart is going to have to say, hey, wait a minute, these guys are onto something and there's some scientific reason now to look further.
		And then I think some of the mathematical similarities of the pyramids are going to come into play and the geometric similarities, and I think we're going to begin to realize that they were all part of some sort of a giant grid system.
		That's what I think is going to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you explain to me how there would be pyramids all over the world, not just at Giza, they are the most obvious, the most above ground, the biggest.
		But there are pyramids all over the world, South America, Peru, Japan, England, everywhere you find pyramids.
		Now, at that time, whether it was when they believed the pyramids conservatively were built or when you believe they were built, there was no worldwide communication of any sort that we knew of.
		That we knew of, right.
		So, how could pyramids be all over the place?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, there is what they call the hundredth monkey theory.
		I mean, it is conceivable that all of our inspiration came from the same source.
		That's what most religions are teaching.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that wouldn't be really the hundredth monkey.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, no.
		But what I'm saying is there are lots of different potential explanations.
		But what I want to know is how come the American, the Native Americans had the same knowledge of resonance, apparently, that the Egyptians did and managed to produce it with a piece of carved wood where the Egyptians were producing it with 2.5 million blocks of stone.
		I want to know how come there is that correlation.
		That can't be a coincidence.
		And that's what I think we have to study.
		And bear in mind, as I keep saying, I'm a humble filmmaker.
		I make documentaries.
		I'm trying to get guys like Tom Danley and DeBecky and Bob Schock and some of these men of letters, some of these brilliant scientists, to work on these problems.
		I don't have an answer.
		But I think I'm pointing out a relationship that demands some sort of study.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You're going back to Egypt.
		And last time you were on, we had the long discussion about the involvement with Shor and all the rest of it going over there.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kind of on your own now.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
		Here's what I'm hoping to do.
		As you know, and you've certainly been very helpful, and I hope later I can speak in an 800 number.
		We've been selling these tell-all tapes, which are basically a compilation of what I've done in Egypt and where we are today.
		And we are hoping that enough people are going to buy these tapes to allow us to go back to Egypt and persuade the Egyptian government to open this tunnel themselves.
		Not the Shore Foundation or Florida State University or Boston College or anyone like that, but the Egyptian Antiquities Department, University of Cairo, whatever.
		We're going to try and persuade them to open this tunnel because so many thousands Of people want to know, and hopefully, we'll have permission to do a co-production on a film over there, which will bring this news to the world.
		It's two and a half meters of already disturbed earth that we've got to penetrate to see if this tunnel exists.
		And I'm hoping we're going to get permission.
		I'm hoping to go there in December and speak with the new minister of the new Secretary of the Antiquities Council and the Minister of Culture to get this permission.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We talked about this a little bit earlier.
		Now, the fellow who runs Giza is Dr. Hawaz.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Zahi Hawaz, right.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		He's the director of the Giza Plateau at Saqqara.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so what you're talking about is going over there and going over his head.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, in a sense, I think Zahi's been very, Dr. Hawaz has been very helpful to me, and he's taken it as far as he can go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, on that note, hold tight, and we'll be right back.
unidentified		Booty River, more deadly, land the vainest night.
unidentified		Bloody river, your mother and daughter, took my baby's love.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Horace Saeed, going over Zahi's head.
unidentified		Last Saturday evening came to the old oak tree.
unidentified		It sat beside the river where you were to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotta wonder what a headless Horace Said would look like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back.
unidentified		On the ground, your glove I found a note addressed to me.
		It read, Dear Love, I've done you wrong.
		What is the single to Fax Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh?
		Dial area code 702-727-8499.
		That's area code 702-727-8499.
		Please limit faxes to one or two pages.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		And if you want to talk about music that will produce an altered state, this, I guarantee, is some of it.
		It's the new Crusco album of Puramac 3, Nature, Spirit, and Pride.
		And by popular demand, and I mean popular demand, Higher Octave extended the special through November 15th.
		You know, there's just been a great outcry out there for a Puramac 3.
		It's understandable.
		It is $15.98 for a CD or $9.98 for a cassette.
		The number to call right now and the first 10 people who call tonight, only 10 now, get an autographed CD by Michael Holm, Cusco's Michael Holm.
		The number is 1-800-562-8283.
		1-800-562-8283.
		That is part one.
		Part 2 gets you a Purimac 1, 2, and 3 for $39.95, and that's what I recommend you do.
		And you get an autographed poster of the Buffalo Spirit Warrior featured on the cover of Apuramax 3.
		So, those are two deals.
		One gets you a Purimac 3.
		The other gets you all three in the Apuramac series.
		And the offer is coming to a close.
unidentified		Telling you, don't wait.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is remarkable, remarkable music.
		Call 1-800-562-8283.
		1-800-562-8283.
		All right.
		In the first hour and a half or so, we had Tom Danley here, a sonic engineer, at one time consultant to NASA who did the sonic recording work in the Great Pyramid at Giza in Egypt.
		And we talked to him about the sonic properties there.
		Very, very complicated and unusual.
		Now we've got Boris Said, and we're talking about what Edgar Cayce said would happen in 1998 or 9.
		A chamber would be found below the left paw of the Sphinx.
		Well, guess what?
		Dr. Dubeke, in concert with Boris Saeed, went over and took ground-penetrating radar and found the chamber.
		Oh, there's no question about it.
		It's there.
		We don't know what's in it, but it's there.
		And now, they also believe there is a tunnel which will enable us to get there.
		Now, if you can picture that, now you don't actually have to picture it.
		Go up to my website right now, and in the new items, just go on and click over, and you'll see the pyramid with the chamber beneath the Sphinx.
		You'll see the Sphinx and the pyramid.
		And the chamber beneath.
		And this tunnel that Boris Said and others feel is there, going to a point in what's known as the causeway, or below the causeway, where you can go down into a deep, dark, dank well, at the bottom of which you will find a fake.
		Underline the word fake sarcophagus.
		Nothing was buried there.
		The Egyptians apparently used a sarcophagus cover to scare people away.
		And frankly, it still works to some degree.
		But beneath that, Borazaid feels that he will find an intersection to the tunnel that will take him to this incredible chamber below the Sphinx, where many feel the hall of records, what is called the Hall of Records, will be found.
		So back now to Bora Saeed.
		And as we came to the top of the hour, he was telling us he's going to go over and talk to the miniature of culture, who really is the boss of Dr. Zahi Hawass, who runs generally Giza with, I think it's fairly said, an iron hand.
		Is that fair to say?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, he certainly seems to be the director of the plateau.
		And I'd like to say, just to correct a misconception, he's never been anything but friendly and helpful to me.
		He's let me film everything I've ever wanted to film.
		And the problem is this, in 1995, when we were, I thought, on the verge of getting into this, getting underground, I signed on with Dr. Shore.
		And the application for permission to dig and so forth then became the province of Dr. Shore and Florida State University because Dr. Hawaz had suggested that we needed an academic institution to join with us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He said that again and again, by the way, when I'm in the corner.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That's right.
		What I propose to do now that's different, and which is why I think we're going to succeed, is I propose to go over there independently financed and suggest to them that they open their own tunnel and suggest to them that they open it with Egyptologists who are Egyptian, with archaeologists who are Egyptian, trained at the University of Cairo, under the auspices of the Antiquities Department, under the auspices of the Minister of Culture.
		And we would simply be the recording entity that would bring this news to the world in concert with the Egyptians.
		That's all I'm suggesting.
		I'm not suggesting that because Zahi has said no, I'm going to go over his head.
		Zahi has never said no to me.
		Zahi just said at a certain point, now you have to go to the committee.
		I have never, personally, I, Boris, have never applied for permission to the committee.
		It has always been an application that's been made by, in the one case, in the original case, John West and Boston University, Boston College, and in the second instance, by Dr. Shore and Florida State University.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I asked Zahi, by the way, for the record, when I was there about John Anthony West, and his comment to me was, by law, he is not allowed on the plateau.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, he did it to himself.
		He certainly is the guy that got me to Egypt, and he certainly is the guy whose theory it was that led to the discovery of the room.
		I'll give him that credit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, give us a little bit of history.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why is there this great rift between John Anthony West and Dr. Zahi Oass?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, John is a maker of great rifts.
		That's what he does best in the world.
		John and I originally met when we were teenagers, and there's a great rift between Boris and John now that John created.
		John loves to have a war with people.
		John, when I went to Egypt with him originally, he told me that I was going to meet this mortal enemy, Zahi Hawaz, who is dedicated to our destruction.
		That's how it started with Zahi.
		You know, it was Zahi and Boris.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why did Mr. West feel that Zahi was dedicated to his destruction?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's the thing.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		John is a very well-educated guy, and I think a brilliant guy, but he does not have the kind of doctorates that it takes to impress the Egyptian academic society.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		So John was always angry because all he had was a BA from Lehigh, and he was forced to use guys like Robert Schock, who's brilliant, and Boston College, and so forth and so on.
		I think John, there was always a resentment on the part of John that he was being put down by people for his lack of academic tenure.
		So he was angry to begin with, and he's angry, in fact, most of the time.
		That's part of his charm.
		And he alienated everybody.
		I mean, you know, it's the same way as Robert Baval has also been over there, and I don't know how.
		I wasn't present.
		I don't know what was said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		As a matter of interest, you might tell me what I'm in for.
		This May 10th through the 17th, I received several calls over the last two weeks from Dr. Zahi Awass.
		And he said, you're the only one I trust, Art, to moderate this.
		We're going to have this trip to Alaska, and we're going to have on this trip myself, Dr. Hawass.
		And he's going to bring the number one Egyptian belly dancer, he says.
		And he said that.
		And Daniel Brinkley, who would be more or less neutral, I think.
		But also Graham Hennon and Robert Baval.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I've been invited too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you?
		Yes, I have.
		I guess you ought to come along.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I don't know whether I should or not.
		I may see you off.
		Be there important counts when you come back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
		I'm a little concerned about that myself.
		My job is going to be that of moderating between all these guys, and they may all finally get angry and decide that I'm the one who should be beheaded.
		I'm a little concerned about it, but it's going to be very, very interesting.
		I'm really looking forward to this, sort of.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm going to go if I'm given permission to film.
		I'm a documentary filmmaker, and I am not a firebrand, and I am not going to take sides, and I'm not going to get into a war with those guys, no matter what they say.
		I'm just not going to do that.
		I want to get the story out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You've told us a little about why antagonism between Anthony and Zahi.
		What about Graham Hancock and Robert Buval?
		Why the problem there?
		As I've said on the air before, there was a time, it is said, that Zahi suggested that when Graham and Robert show up at Giza again, should they desire to do so, he would have them beheaded, thrown in a pit, and would defecate upon the island.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I really would.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I can't believe that Zahi said it, but maybe he did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not so sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I saw both sides of Dr. Hawass, and I can imagine at a bad moment.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I got no comment.
		I can tell you this.
		I have not been privy to any of the goings-on between Hancock and Baval and Zahi, except that I do know that Hancock and Baval and John West have been pushing for an opening of all the secrets of Egypt, and they have been suggesting that it is not up to the Egyptians to legislate this, that it belongs to the world.
		And they sell a lot of books.
		And I think what's happened is that they have just gotten into some sort of a personality conflict with the guy who's ahead of the plateau, which is a dumb thing to do.
		Because I've never had this sort of a problem.
		I'm as commercial as they are, and I can tell you, Art, and you know, and you've been over there.
		He has not denied me access to anything.
		If you'd wanted to go up in those chambers above the king's chamber, I know, you could have gone.
unidentified		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I looked at a little hole and I said, no way.
		Look, I had one day, one miserable day, and not enough time.
		But he did give me, he signed permission.
		He said, you can go anywhere you want to go.
		I've got to say this, though, Boris.
		Other than the tip you gave me about the well and the causeway and all the rest, I could have walked around there for days and not gone to a place that was not readily apparent if you follow me.
		Yes.
		So when Dr. Hawass says you have blanket permission to go anywhere you want, if you don't know where to go, let's assume that Dr. Hawass has made discoveries that he has not told you nor me nor the world about.
		And by the way, I do assume that.
		I'm sure of it.
		We wouldn't find them if he didn't want us to.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that a fair comment?
unidentified		Absolutely.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		And that's why he's the director of the plateau.
		And, I mean, he's responsible for the plateau.
		He's responsible to his government.
		And I think we have to honor that and work with him, you know, and not try and bring the weight of world press down to bear against him and try and bulldoze him and blackmail him and bully him into doing things that he's not prepared to do.
		That's why I've been so desperate to stay in the middle of this thing and not on one side or another because I think you have to acknowledge that it's Egypt, and I think you have to acknowledge that there are a lot of very sensitive social and political and economical problems over there.
		And you've got to be aware of those things, and you've got to respect those things, and then they let you go where you want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, the diplomatic Boris Saeed will go to the director there?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I am going to go, an Egyptian attorney friend of mine who claims to know all the parties involved, including Saki, is going to arrange a series of interviews for me at which I am going to present a case for the opening of the tunnel at the bottom of the well and the exploration of that tunnel.
		Now, if I'm successful, then I'm going to return with a film crew when the Egyptians say they're ready to start digging.
		And as I said publicly, I'm going to bring a group of 20 witnesses with me.
		We're going to pick some names out of the hat of people that wind up buying our tape and the sort of a reward to them.
		And we're going to take a group of people over as part of our crew.
		And to dispel once and for all this notion of secrecy and, you know, the Dead Sea Scrolls and keeping this from mankind, we're going to film this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's do a couple of what-ifs.
		Let's say the tunnel is there.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But let's say that you begin moving down that tunnel, and at some point you're blocked.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yes, or it's underwater.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can't go any further.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then what?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Then I'm going to go to them and I'm going to say, okay, guys, look, here's a diagram.
		And if you take this tunnel and you move down it for 75 feet and you come to a blockage, and this dotted line represents the presumed extension of the tunnel since it's been straight all the way.
		It's silly to presume that it suddenly turns to the right or to the left.
		And gosh, look, it comes out right at the tail of the Sphinx, and it's only 15 or 18 feet down.
		Can we please drill with a high-speed bit?
		Can we please, under your supervision, carefully, slowly drill at least down into the tunnel where it goes under the tail of the Sphinx?
		At that point, the same thing would be true.
		We put down our spy camera, our two-inch diameter camera, and if the passage is still blocked, then of course then there's the third what if.
		Look, our radar showed it's there.
		Is there some way that we can persuade you to drill a hole at an angle under the front paws of the stinks?
		Nobody's yet asked them if we could tunnel in at, let's say, a 40-degree angle from 200 feet away, which was presumably then not disturbed the paws at all.
		I mean, there are lots of possibilities if we can prove to them something which they don't believe at the moment, if we can prove to them that our radar has in fact discovered a tunnel, it doesn't matter whether if the tunnel leads to the Sphinx chamber, hallelujah.
		We've succeeded.
		If not, at least we've proved that the radar study is valid.
		And then we can go back to trying to persuade them to open a hole directly to the room.
		That's what I hope is going to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that Zahi Oass and those above him really would allow the world to see simultaneously what is in there?
		Or do they want first crack at it?
		Now, if you were an Egyptian and you were Zahi Awas, what would your answer be?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, if I were an Egyptian and I were Zahi Awaz, I would have started looking for that room in 1991 when America's foremost seismographer, Dr. Thomas DeBecky, proved that the room was there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But he didn't.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, we don't know that he has or he hasn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, this is some very good points.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		And there may be nothing there.
		I mean, look, this is what the radar says.
		All we're asking is the chance to dig and have a look.
		Do I think that they're going to keep it to themselves?
		Honestly, no.
		I think that they're going to be so proud of it.
		I think there's certainly a question that they'll allow us to open it on worldwide video.
		I think they may want to see what's in there first.
		But I think that they've been very proud about everything they've ever excavated.
		And Zahi firmly believes that if there's anything in that tunnel, he thinks it's an 18th dynasty tomb.
		He told me so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, they are presently trying to divert tourists from Giza.
		They've made some new discoveries of tombs in the last couple of weeks, as a matter of fact.
		And I saw some stories indicating that the crush of tourists at Giza is so heavy right now.
		They're trying to come up with antiquities to draw tourists away from Giza.
unidentified		That's right.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And that's certainly going to be one of the problems.
		But do I believe they're going to sit on a discovery of this magnitude?
		Absolutely not.
		And the main reason for it is that they're starting to feel a surge of tourist pressure from what we should now seriously call the New Age, which is one of the most enormous buying groups in the country.
		And far outspends and outnumbers the people who know the difference between the 16th and the 15th dynasties.
		People are going over there now because of the astounding feelings that they're getting over there because of exactly what happened to you in the pyramid.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You tried one time before and failed to be able to explore this.
		You were unable to go any further.
		Has it occurred to you, Boris, that the prediction of Edgar Casey may be the reason you failed?
		In other words, I know I'm getting a little out there right now, but it just simply wasn't yet the right time.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's certainly possible.
		I certainly believe that that's possible.
		Probable, in fact.
		But that doesn't mean that you quit trying.
		I mean, I think if you sort of sit on your hands and you wait till 1998 and say, okay, this is the time now we start, I think that if we are allowed to go in there in 1998, it's because we spent all of 1997 hammering on the door.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But maybe that was all meant to be that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1998 is not very far away.
unidentified		Maybe.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, what I'm looking at is this.
		I've heard, for example, when my original film, this one that is now in dispute, that we can't show, the Dr. Shore film, when that was shown to some Egyptian officials, they criticized it as being, quote, publicity for the Shore Foundation, unquote.
		That's why I want to go back to them and suggest a film which would be publicity for Egypt, quote unquote.
		And I really believe that under the right circumstances, they will allow us to film the opening of that tunnel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Boris Said, stand by.
		He's our guest.
		We will get to the phone shortly.
		And I'm going to tell you about Boris Saeed's tape when I come back from the break.
		This is a tape you're going to definitely want to get your hands on.
		Believe me, I've seen it.
		And it is absolutely top-notch.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Welcome to Grand To realize what I have done.
		I have a man only care of what I am.
		I have a man only care of what I am.
		To talk with Art Bell on Coast to Coast AM from outside the U.S., first dial your access numbers to the USA.
		Then dial 1-800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM from the Kingdom of Nai with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, and we are back.
		Boris Saeed is my guest.
		We're talking about the pyramids, the Sphinx, and the Great Mystery.
		And I'll tell you, what's coming up in May is something you shouldn't miss.
		You barely still have time.
		Let me quickly tell you about this and get it out of the way.
		I have been invited to what may be Mission Impossible, I don't know, but it sure as hell is going to be interesting.
		There is a cruise coming up May 10th through the 17th.
		It's going to Alaska.
		It is going to some of the most northern sacred sites that you have ever laid eyes on.
		It's almost beyond description.
		The ice flows, the Inside Passage, the north is very nearly indescribable.
		It's just, it's an amazing, amazing cruise to take.
		Now, I've already taken it.
		So there wasn't a chance I would accept this.
		I mean, it's going to Juneau, Skagway, Ketchkin, then back to Vancouver.
		You'll see it all.
		You will see all the wonderful things that I got to see, the glacier carved fjords, all the rest of it.
		It's just, it's beyond description.
		It's got to be one of the world's wonders, no question about it.
		But what got me to go was my part of the invitation is for the last three days of the cruise, the Inside Passage, coming back from Alaska to Vancouver.
		And during that period of time, on board will be Dr. Zahi Awas, Daniel Brinkley, Graham Hancock, Robert Baval, Dr. Ed Krupp, maybe Boris Said, who has been invited, I just found out, and I'll be there too, trying to moderate all of this.
		It will be a great debate over one of the greatest mysteries in the world by the people who are probably most deeply involved in these mysteries.
		I'm going to be there, and I am inviting you to be there.
		It's about sold out, so I'm telling you right now.
		Matter of fact, you can try calling right now, the numbers I'm going to give you.
		The financial end of this is incredible.
		I mean, absolutely incredible.
		Really, really a good deal.
		And so it's kind of like a once-in-a-lifetime deal, and I couldn't turn it down.
		The nationwide number to call, all except for California.
		California is a separate number.
		Californians are so different.
		The rest of the country, though, can call 1-800-888-5509.
		That's 1-800-888-5509.
		And, you know, if you can't get through now, try between 9 in the morning and 6 at night.
		This can be one of the last times you're going to hear me do this, talk about this, because it's about booked up.
		Don't wait.
		I'm telling you.
		If you're in California, you call area code 310-568-0138.
		Let me give you the California number again.
		310-568-0138.
		Or again, for the rest of the whole country, 1-800-888-5509.
		And I look forward to that with some muscles that tense involuntarily.
unidentified		It's really going to be something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really going to be something.
		All right.
		We'll get back to Boris in a moment.
		Smart.
		All right.
		Boris Said, the last time he was on the air with me, talked about a tape that he was in the middle of producing.
		Boris is, of course, now no longer associated in any way with the Shore Expedition, University of Florida, and the Shore Expedition.
		And so what he is doing, what Boris wants to do is go back to Egypt and open the secret chamber below the sinks by accessing the tunnel he believes is there.
		They've already done all the radar work to determine that this chamber that Edgar Casey said would be there is in fact there.
		And there may even be more.
		Now, the idea of producing the videotape was to finance the trip back to Egypt.
		And many, many of you, based on faith, ordered that tape, oh, I don't know, it's a couple of weeks ago, I guess, before it was even done.
		The tape is now complete and ready to ship.
		And Bora Said sent me a copy of this videotape.
		And I must tell you, it is a class AAA production.
		I mean, it really, really is a good videotape, and it will give you a very precise idea of the importance to mankind, of what he is proposing to do.
		Fortunately, now, tonight, he's going to be able to offer that videotape to you for immediate shipment, I think.
		Boris, is that correct?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely, and I'd like to say that the first 300 have already gone out.
		They went out at the end of last week, so people should be getting them along about now.
		But we now have a fulfillment house which is sending these things out because the demand has been enormous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now that you've actually got it for shipment, I think people are much more likely to call and order.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is the number?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the number is 800-1-800-243-1438.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		That's 800-243-1438.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want to tell them about the tape?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and for those of you who are outside of the United States or in the Seattle area, because it's coming out of Seattle, Washington, the number to call is 425-455-1053.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
		425-455-455-1053.
		1053.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		And the 800 number, again, is 800-243-1438.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, tell us about the tape.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Okay, and by the way, you can buy that with a credit card or any which way you like.
		Incidentally, it's $25, and we're calling that a donation.
		We're pledging that all the money for the tape is going to go towards this work that we're doing.
		It's $25 plus $3 shipping and handling.
		And an added plus is that we're going to select 20 names among the people who have bought the tape, and we're going to take them to Egypt with us.
		18 people are going to go for about 50% off for the same rate that the film crew goes.
		And two people are going to go free.
		Two people are going to get their tickets and hotel rooms, and that's going to be done by lot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		So that's the commercial.
		The tape itself is a compilation of what I've done.
		It's a 40-minute tape thereabouts that introduces you to the secret chamber under the paws of the Sphinx with a seven-minute excerpt from The Mystery of the Sphinx.
		It introduces you to Tom Danley's work.
		It shows his levitation work.
		And it shows Tom DeBecky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Trout McHeston is in it.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Trout McHeston narrates it, and it shows Tom.
		It's the film, it's a film which won an Emmy in 1993.
		And it documents the work of the John West expedition, for which DeBecky found the secret chamber.
		I mean, it shows, actually shows the radar work, the seismic work being done, and shows a diagram of the chamber.
		It also then, it features an interview with my friend Zahi Hawaz, who promises to open the tunnel one day under the Sphinx.
		There's some good shots of Zahi.
		And it includes a promotional tape that we made in 1995, which outlined the work that we proposed to do on the Sphinx.
		And there's some very beautiful footage there by Garrett Griffin.
		And then at that point, of course, we ran a file of the Shore Foundation.
		And so from then on, there is a series of photographs, like a photographic montage of some of the work that Danley did, because a lot of that footage is in dispute at the moment, legally.
		And it culminates with some hi-hate footage That was shot by an Egyptian cameraman friend of mine who went down into the well that you were in, Art, that shows the sarcophagus lid, and it shows the well and shows that entire chamber.
		And it tells a little bit of the story of what happened with the Shore Foundation and with 20th Century Fox and Mr. Murdoch and why we never finally came to the end of the road with them and didn't resolve itself into a film.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It at one point showed Zahi Owas down near that, or in the entrance, headed down, saying, Indiana Jones would not even dream to be here.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it does suggest that he is prepared, under the right circumstances, to open it.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I'm convinced that he is.
		I don't think he's ever been unwilling to.
		I just think the problem has been that certainly my efforts have always been hampered or certainly controlled.
		I don't want to use the word hampered, but they've been controlled by the expedition that's been funding the film.
		In the first instance, John West and his group, and in the second instance, Dr. Shore and his group.
		What I'm hoping is that if we get enough response, and there are, God knows, 15 million people out there, if enough people get involved with us, I'm going to be able to go over there in December with thousands of letters of support from people, and they're flooding my website, and go to them and say, look, you know, the people of America want to know, and this is your story, this is your country, this is your tunnel, please open it, and we'll film it, and we'll make the production out of Egypt, and it'll be an Egyptian production as well.
		And in that way, they can't say they're being exploited, and in that way, they'll have total control of what happens.
		And in that way, I believe that they'll be very expansive about telling us about it.
		I mean, that's just my opinion.
		Now, I may be wrong.
		If I'm wrong, I hope you guys are entertained with your 40-minute tape.
		And I'm sorry about the trip to Egypt, but I believe it's going to work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		I would like to ask you your opinion now.
		This is just your opinion.
		When we get into that chamber, what do you think we're going to find?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that we're going to find a lot of rubble.
		I think, and that's from Debecki's findings, not mine.
		I think we're going to find hieroglyphs, which will be probably very ambiguous and will be subject to a lot of interpretation.
		I think that if we get in there and there's enough space in there to work and we set up the radar and the seismic stuff again, we're going to find levels below that chamber.
		A very great psychic, Zeb Coleman, an Israeli psychic, has suggested that he has seen steps leading down and a jade pillar and all that sort of wonderful stuff.
		I think we're going to find levels below it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what I'm getting at here is, do you think it's possible that we will find the Hall of Records?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I think it's possible.
		Again, I think that the Hall of Records, if you think, I know you've had Michio Kaku as a guest.
		His string theory of physics describes the universe in a one-inch theory.
		So the Hall of Records could be one tablet saying this is the answer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could be.
		Now, my question is, if the answer is not a foretelling of the coming of Christ, something that validates Christianity or Buddhism or any other,
		perhaps Islam, whatever, if it validates none of the religions and suggests to us that our ancestors, those who came before us, were not of this world, and that's entirely possible for us.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would upset everything that we know and everything that we are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there are people who would kill to prevent that information from becoming public.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's absolutely true.
		To look at it a different way, if we don't pretty quickly upset everything that we are and everything that we're doing, we're going to kill ourselves.
		I mean, we're headed in the wrong direction, ecologically, sociologically, economically.
		We're headed for disaster.
		I mean, I'm not an alarmist, but I think it's about time that somebody breathed some fresh air into this thing and said, hey, guys, you took a wrong turn someplace.
		You should have turned left back there at that church.
		And I, for one, I believe that this race that we're engaged in now, to find this ancient wisdom, while we still can.
		I did an interview with a Zulu high priest who suggested that the Zulus believe men have 12 senses, and that until we're fully conversant with seven of them, we're not going to survive as a species.
		Now, it's very interesting when you think how just in our lifetime, the sixth sense, the psychic awareness, has become an everyday thing virtually.
		And you talked to Michio Kaku, who lives on ten planes.
		I mean, to him, it's a reality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		So I don't think it's going to be so terrible to upset some of our paradigms.
		I mean, what if we upset the paradigm of war or bigotry or hatred?
		I mean, God forbid.
		We could even wind up with a peaceful world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going back to something a little more solid for a second about the pyramids, here is a fact.
		Maybe you can answer it.
		There are only a handful of cranes and crews in the world right now that are able to lift 200-ton blocks, and that is their maximum lifting capacity.
		And let me go on.
		And to effect a move of such blocks to the site of the pyramid in question requires three separate setups, each taking months to create.
		Now, when you finally get these stones on the site, what the hell do you do then?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		How do you place Them?
		How do you remove whatever it is you lifted them with?
		How do you get whatever it is out from underneath the stone?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These are the reasons, or at least some of the reasons, Boris, that I suspect there is a hall of records and there is an answer that we may not be so comfortable with getting when we get in there.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so what you are proposing is extremely exciting, extremely interesting, and you're probably right.
		We need to know.
		But I'm not sure what effect it'll have on the world.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me take your supposition a step further, Art.
		I mean, as long as we're going to get out there, let's get out there.
		It's the hour for that.
		If the answer is that some sort of an external civilization from another planet came and made all this, maybe instead of getting down on our knees and praying to them with our hands clasped,
		or instead of facing Mecca or whatever one does and whatever religion one prays, maybe it's 99.5 megacycles or something, and we can just send them a simple help in a language which we discovered down there, and they come and move the rocks for us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you remember they talked about in 2001 the monolith, as a matter of fact, is something that Professor Kaku talks about quite a bit.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Perfect example.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe the monolith or the equivalent of the monolith is not on the moon or Mars or one of Jupiter's moons but is instead right here on Earth.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		On the Giza Plateau.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the Giza Plateau.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Why not?
		Why not?
		I think it's absolutely possible.
		Once we accept the fact that it's possible that there's stuff we don't know.
		I mean, we live in this terror that we're going to discover something new.
		You know, you've got to knock down the paradigm before you can begin to let the light in.
		The world is flat.
		The world is flat.
		I mean, I'm just reading a story about Magellan now, and I mean, when Magellan set off, three-quarters of the thinking world thought the world was flat.
		And when ships were lost at sea, they'd sailed off the edge.
		And that's not so long ago, as mankind goes.
		That's what 400 or 500 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I couldn't agree with you more, but I really, really, really wonder, Boris, about what would happen to all of our religious and scientific institutions.
		There would be a period, no doubt, of extreme chaos if such information were revealed.
		Boris, hold on.
		We're at the top of another hour, and you can relax for a while.
		Boris Said is my guest, and when we come back, we will go to the phones.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Mischke for Buck Hill.
		What you wanna see?
		River playing through the garden.
		You take the long way.
		You take the long way.
		When you're up on the stage, it's all unbelievable.
		Oh, I don't get a go.
		I may have gone.
		Then you want to see the things you do most of the time.
		Oh, the gravity.
		With the noise.
		Art Bell is taking your calls in the Kingdom of Nigh from east of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, at 1-800-618-8255.
		First-time callers may reach Art at area code 702-727-1222.
		That's 702-727-1222.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
		Now, here again is Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here again, I am.
		And in a moment, I think I've got something for Boris to chew over.
		Really chew over.
		I certainly would.
		And I think you would, too, after you hear what I'm about to read.
		I'm going to read some of what Edgar Casey said about the opening of the Hall of Records.
		Back now to Boris Aye.
		Boris?
		Sure.
		You know, even if you can't film, I really think you ought to come along to Alaska.
		You'd be good to have there because, you know, if real hell broke out, I could turn to you and I'd say, well, Boris, who do you agree with?
		Dr. Hawass or Graham Hancock?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, a great reason for not going.
		All right, look, here's the thing.
		And this talks right, I believe, to the heart of the matter and to what I want to do as a film documentarian.
		Okay?
		We're all sitting there on the boat.
		Soval says, look, I've got this computer study that says that in 10,500 B.C., these air shafts in the king's chamber lined up with the planets of Orion, which is where the Egyptian mythology says the home of the gods in the afterlife was going to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which is what he was going to say, yes.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Okay, terrific.
		And Grant Hancock will somehow link it all to Quetzalcoatl and the pyramids of Mexico or whatever.
		And then they will both say that there's a chamber under the back of this things, and it's mirrored in the heavens and so forth and so on.
		And that's fabulous.
		I love the books.
		I've got both books sitting in front of me.
		I read their stuff.
		Okay?
		And Zahirwaz is going to say, that's a lot of nonsense.
		We've dug up signs of a bakery and a brewery, and we know how these pyramids were built, and the whole thing was done by Egyptians.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we've got, as a matter of fact, he's got further proof in the burial ground of those who built it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know I was there.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		20,000 workers.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Let's say that conservatively that's 15,000 loaves of bread a day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you know, even Zahi will admit, workers or not, he doesn't have a clue how the stones were actually moved.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He showed How they could be split.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		My problem is this with all of this: that when there is an explanation other than slaves and rolling logs and what have you, it comes from a source like, and I respect the sources, Jim Hurtock, Greg Braden, people who are terribly educated, and they have these amazing theories.
		And the problem is, I can't understand them.
		I don't understand about talking about seven powers of nine pyramidal grids and all of that sort of stuff.
		I got trouble enough talking to Tom, and he explains it to me carefully.
		I think that the extraordinary thing is that if these people were this bright and this knowledge was so pervasive and all over the world, which is what we're beginning to see, and which is what the Aborigines have been talking about and the Hopi and the Bushmen, then I think that approaching it from the standpoint of color or music or standing stones, something that everybody can understand, then it's going to have meaning.
		That's what I want to do.
		That's what I'm looking for, is a link that people can understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'm going to give you something to think about, and I want an answer to this.
		The following is from Edgar Casey's Supplement No.
		57, Prehistory Egypt, July 1st, 1932, reading, A15 excerpt.
		With the storehouse or record house, where the records are still to be uncovered, there is a chamber or passage from the right forepaw to this entrance of the record chamber or record tomb.
		This, now listen carefully, this may not be entered without an understanding for those that were left as guards may not be passed until after a period of their regeneration in the mount or the fifth foot race begins.
		Now, I don't fully understand that, but what I do get from that is that there are certain things.
		Well, I've seen maybe too many movies about this kind of thing, but I can sort of picture Bora Said making his way along this tunnel and giant shards coming down and running him through, or blocks coming down on his head and crushing him like a cartoon character.
		In other words, if you believe what Casey said, then there are certain things that will get you.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are certain things that are going to get you anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's one way of looking at it.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I mean, look, I'm going to make my film, okay?
		The chances of anybody allowing me to be the first person down the tunnel are slim to nut.
		There is going to be a zealot, an Egyptologist, an archaeologist, somebody going down that tunnel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going to be Zahi, you know it is.
unidentified		Well, I'll be able to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it would certainly be very dramatic seeing a gigantic stone come down on Zahi, squooshing him into a cartoon character.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, I think obviously, if we're going to go exploring a subterranean tunnel, we're going to have to be very, very careful.
		One.
		Two, I think there's every chance in the world that it's flooded, which may present a different set of problems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not insurmountable.
unidentified		That's right.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Not insurmountable at all, because at the time nobody envisioned scuba gear and all that sort of stuff.
		The other thing is that I believe that if we can prove that there is a tunnel, then I think that with the advanced kind of drilling equipment that exists, we may get permission to drill right into the chamber.
		Don't forget that what Zahi used as an objection to me was that in 1978, I believe it was 78, Stanford University came and drilled three or four holes.
		They were drilled to a depth of three meters and turned up nothing.
		They were very noisy drills.
		They were high-vibration drills.
		They were 20 years old.
		There is now very sophisticated equipment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Morris, what do you think that Casey meant by this may not be entered without an understanding?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, my interpretation is that you probably had to understand some sort of a complicated system of entry that may have been numerical, that may have been vibrational.
		There is probably a great complexity to getting in there.
		I don't think it's just a tunnel in the ground.
		I think if these people were as advanced as they're supposed to be, they would have done something more complicated than a dog could do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When he said, for those that were left as guards may not, and it's underlined, may not be passed until after a period of their regeneration in the mount or the fifth foot race begins.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I don't fully understand that, but the clear implication here is that there are things that would stop you from entering until the time was correct.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Or, I mean, if the mount, if we take the mount to be the pyramid, then perhaps what Danley's talking about is valid.
		There are all sorts of places on the plateau that I've taken tom, one of which I think I told you a little about, where those four pillars are behind the Ken Coz tomb, where there's no vibration at all.
		It's like a paradigm cage.
		And I think that place has great significance, and nobody's studied it yet.
		So what do I think it means?
		I don't, gosh, I don't know.
		I don't see huge giant boulders and stakes and poisoned gases and stuff.
		I don't see anything sinister in it.
		I think it's just that it's going to be difficult to figure it out.
		And I think that in order to figure it out, we're going to have to find our clues in places like the Great Pyramid.
		That I believe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let us begin to take some calls.
		I'd like to open the lines.
		And since you know so much about the pyramid's sinks, and you'd be a good one qualified to answer listeners' questions.
		First time caller online, you're on the air with Boris Said.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi, Art.
		This is David from Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, David.
unidentified		I just wanted to let the listeners know that besides the video, there's this interesting article in the October, November 96 issue of Nexus.
		It's a magazine out of Australia.
		Right.
		It talks about the pyramid and among other things, it talks about Casey's prediction that this would be discovered and opened between 1996 and 1998.
		It talks about the Atlantean Hall of Records.
		And he also thought that the pyramid or the Sphinx was actually built around 10,500 BC.
		And the article mentions that the pattern of erosion on the Sphinx indicates that many researchers think that it was built around 12,000 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, what the rock seemed to show, and this is one of the things that is clearly, very clearly shown in Boris's videotape, and I would like to talk to you about it, Boris, is it shows the erosion of the rock and suggests that erosion by sand would have left a pitted surface and that the erosion that in fact is present there could only,
		repeat, only have been produced, and they show it in great detail, by water.
		Is that correct?
		Where'd you go, Boris?
		Oh, we lost Boris.
		We lost Boris.
		We lost the connection somehow.
		That does occasionally occur.
		Was I asking some sort of a question that I should not have been asking?
		I don't know.
		I'm going to take a moment break and we're going to get hold of Boris again so that he can answer that question.
		Because on his tape, beyond any shadow of a doubt, I think there is visual evidence, specific visual evidence that it was water erosion.
		Now, you're talking about a desert, or at least what today is a desert.
		So we'll get Boris back on the line and have an answer.
		Are you having our thoughts?
		Right.
		All right.
		Well, I don't know how it happens with a system that locks calls in the way mine does, but it happens.
		And we lost connection, but I've got Boris back.
		And Boris, what I was saying is that in your videotape, it seems clear beyond any shadow of a doubt that the erosion on the rock has not been caused by sand and wind and pitting, but that it is smooth, and this erosion could only have been produced by water.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that's Robert Schock's thesis, and I think he's, I mean, it's self-evident.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is self-evident.
		I mean, the tape, your videotape, I think, is incredibly clear on that point.
		Now, if we accept that as fact, what does that mean?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, it means that the Sphinx was damaged by a downflow of water, not a rising of the river, which would have eroded the bottom of the cliff first, but a downpouring, water coming off the plateau.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		And when we consulted Professor John Kutzbach out at University of Wisconsin, who's an expert in the study of ancient weather patterns, he says they have lots of data and fossils and God knows what else to prove that there were lakes in North Africa and on the Giza Plateau 9, 10,000, 12,000 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the kind of erosion they show there would have had to have occurred over a very long period of time.
		It wouldn't have been one instant flood that would have worn rocks away that way.
		It would have been a very extensive period of rain.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		A couple of thousand years of rainy weather could have done it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, there has not been that in the period of time that conventional wisdom says the Sphinx was constructed in the pyramids.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Nor were there any people around capable of constructing the Sphinx.
		That's the other thing.
		See, I mean, you can't have it both ways.
		If the Sphinx was carved in 2,550 B.C., then how come, as we said in our video, according to the rate at which the Sphinx eroded, it could have eroded, it would have been completely gone by now.
		If you follow the conventional reasoning.
		And when some of the Egyptologists who have said that the Sphinx was carved from such a poor quality of limestone that they had to patch it as they were carving it, Dr. Shakto that, as I recall in our video, said, how come they built temples with these rocks?
		And the temples are still standing here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly right.
		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Boris Saeed.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Greetings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Greetings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Cincinnati.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I want to say this first, Boris.
		If the whole system were rehabbed and set up as it once was, then I think the idea of guards and vibrations would come into play.
		And I'll tell you what I mean, okay?
		I came out of a meditative state, and I was in the sarcophagus, and it became clear to me that there were three things going on.
		One was soul travel while the body was safely lying there.
		The second was meetings with teachers who were not in bodies.
		And the third was a testing system that was rather severe.
		So the idea of guards, I think, has to do with the protection of the knowledge and the admission of people who are at the right frequency, I would say.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, that is kind of the new age take on things there.
		And I don't rule it out, Boris, because of what I felt when I was there.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, I think definitely that it has to do with vibrations and awareness and everything else, I'm sure.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		But I don't know how we can quantify that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know it sounds to the audience who has never experienced it kind of touchy-feely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But believe me, folks, once you've been there, you know something serious is going on, really serious is going on.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the thing.
		I mean, people have had out-of-body experiences for real in those pyramids, and they're documented.
		I had one.
		A lot of people I know have had them.
		And there are things that happen to you in Egypt physically which are unavoidable.
		I don't care how skeptical you are.
		So I wouldn't rule that out at all.
		And I think that the lady's quite right, that it has to do with possibly changing the vibrations of our own body-mind complex to the point where we become aware of some of these directions, instructions, passages, or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boris, could it be true that what Casey meant and what is true is what that lady said, that those who would go down to that chamber and go through that tunnel, the ones who would make it would be the ones who had reached a larger understanding imparted within the pyramid, within the king's chamber, within perhaps even the sarcophagus.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Very possible.
		Very possible.
		Why not, of course?
		I would believe that.
		I mean, anything that's complicated to do, you have to learn how to do.
		I mean, I used to drive a podsled.
		I don't learn to do that in 20 minutes, you know, and you have to build yourself up to a certain awareness of a certain series of tests and things that you have to be able to overcome that not everybody can do.
		I don't think there's a huge big sign that says, Andrew, here, welcome to Atlantis.
		I think it's complicated to find the answer to this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I agree with that.
		Let's see if we can get one in quickly.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Bora Saeed.
		Wait a minute.
		Now I press the button.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Bora Said.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good evening, gentlemen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		This is Dave from Vancouver.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Dave.
unidentified		Hi.
		Were you aware that there is an album?
		It's available as a two-CD compilation, and it's called Inside the Great Pyramid.
		It's recorded in the Pyramid of Giza and in other structures on the plateau there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I wasn't aware.
		Yeah, excuse me?
		No, I was not aware.
		I said it's very interesting, but I don't know that it produces all of the resonances that have been recently discovered.
		And that's, of course, what we've been talking about.
unidentified		Probably not.
unidentified		I've not been there myself yet, but when I put it on, the vibrations of it, I don't know, makes the top of your head tingle.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Is that the Paul Horn album?
unidentified		Yes, it's Paul Horn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold on.
		We will return in a moment.
		If you have questions for Boris Saeed, come now.
unidentified		I'm Mark Bell, and this is Coast to Coast A.M. I
		hear the drums echoing tonight.
		She is only whispers of some quiet conversation.
		She's coming in for doubt is fine.
		Moonlight wings reflect the stars that fly between South Bay.
		You're here in Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
		International callers may reach Art in the Kingdom of Nye by first dialing their access number to the USA.
		Then 1-800-893-0903.
		1-800-893-0903.
		And you may fax art by calling Area Code 702-727-8499.
		That's Area Code 702-727-8499.
		Please limit faxes to one or two pages.
		Now again, here is Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We are discussing one of the great mysteries of the world.
		As a matter of fact, in North Africa, actually, Egypt, the Sphinx, the pyramids, and what may lie beneath.
		When it comes to information on ETs, if you're like me, you can't get enough, and I'm telling you, you've got to see this spine-chilling video, Area 51, the alien interview.
		Thousands of you already have.
		A few of you, or I guess many actually, have seen just a little tiny bit of it on Extra or maybe Strange Universe.
		But here, you've got the entire ball of wax, a 65-minute documentary containing the most convincing color footage of government agents interviewing what certainly appears to be a space alien inside the infamous base at Area 51, smuggled out by a guy named Victor who spent a couple of very frightening hours with me on the air.
		He's now actually in fear of his life for his part in spiriting this footage out.
		Now, of course, some would say it's not real.
		But you can judge for yourself without much pain.
		The tape is $19.95 plus shipping and handling.
		You watch it over and over.
		You let me know what you think.
		Two weeks for delivery, and the number to call right now is 1-800-510-3420.
		That's 1-800-510-3420.
		Back now to Boris Said.
		Boris?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		A lot of people want to talk to you, so we need to lay heavily into the phones.
		But you do have a videotape, which not only is incredible, but is going to finance your way and maybe others back to Egypt to do all that you want done.
unidentified		I hope so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the tape now is finished.
		It is a class AAA product.
		I guarantee that to my listeners.
		How do they get it?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		They get it by calling 1-800-243-1438.
		That's 1-800-243-1438.
		Or if they're in Seattle, in the Seattle area, 425-455-1053.
		And that holds for anyone outside the United States and Canada.
		They have to call 425-455-1053.
		The tape's available for a $25 donation and $3 shipping and handling.
		They can accept tax orders and all of that.
		But that's the easiest way to do it.
		Give them a credit card or give them your address and they'll send it out to you right away.
		Incidentally, Art, if I can mention just once again, we're going to run a drawing.
		We're going to draw 20 names out of a hat.
		And if we go over there to open this tunnel in the spring, which I hope we're going to be able to do, we're going to take 20 people with us.
		18 are going to go at crew rate, which will be about 50% off on hotels and airplane fares.
		And two people will go absolutely free.
unidentified		Free.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's cool.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		So those will be 20 people who will be official members of our team.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		We're going to give them windbreakers and t-shirts, and they're going to be witness to this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, at least they will have seen the tape, so they'll know what they're doing.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And when they come back here, they, I hope, will be living proof that there are no secrets over there.
		And I don't believe there are going to be.
		I know that you may disagree with me.
		A lot of people disagree with me.
		But I think the Egyptian government, when they're given a proper way of presenting this news, are going to be thrilled and proud to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Wild Grudline, you're on the air with Boris Saeed.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yeah, good morning, Art.
unidentified		Good morning, Boris.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm Dan, and I'm in Virginia.
		Okay.
		Art, you're reading the part making reference to the mound, I think, in Edgar Casey's prediction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I think what that might refer to is what is known as the Temple of the Mount.
		It might.
		And which was the Temple of Solomon and the Dome of the Rock, and that's known as the foundation stone of the world.
		And I believe that the Ark of the Covenant supposedly was there several hundred years ago.
		And I think that ties in with the pyramid in Egypt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you could be right.
		I mean, or it could be the pyramid itself.
		It's really hard to say.
		But I'll say this, Boris.
		I think that I would be frightened.
		Is frighten the right word?
		I'd be really, really, really cautious and wary of making my way down toward that secret chamber.
		Really wary.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, cautious is a better word than frightened.
unidentified		Yeah.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		You know, Sir Francis Chichester, the great round-the-world sailor, once said that the only thing worse than fear was being prevented from doing something that one really wanted to do by fear.
		And I think that caution is the answer here.
		But I think that given the opportunity, I can't imagine anybody saying, I'm not going down there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if I would agree with that.
		I'd have to think about that a little bit.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Boris Said.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art and Boris.
		Hi there.
		This is Eric from Calamus V, Michigan.
		Hi there.
		And hi.
		I actually had a comment and a question about what you guys were talking about earlier on whether when you go down into the Hall of Records or the room down there, if that does contain documents that are going to have a major impact on the world's religions,
		something stating that we're from somewhere else other than Earth, don't you think that that might lead to some kind of information suppression or that the world wouldn't really hear about that kind of thing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My answer is yes.
		I think it would.
		I think it would be suppressed before you could say Zahioas.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		But the other thing is, it's harder to suppress information these days.
		You can take a camera down there the size of the palm of your hand and bring back broadcast quality photographs and video.
		It's very difficult now.
		I mean, there's such an information network around the world that it's hard for me to imagine them being able to suppress this sort of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me put it to you this way, Boris.
		There is one possibility, and that is that before you arrive, before any cameras arrive, in fact, it may already have happened, that you recall in your video, there stood Zahiowas saying, we will open this.
		And he stood right in front of it.
unidentified		That's right.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Now, certainly possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many nights does Zahiowas go to sleep without thinking, you know, I've got a real good crew of guys here.
		Why don't I go down and open this thing and see what's there?
		See if I can make my way down to this secret chamber below the Sphinx before camera crews and Boris arrive.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely possible.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		No question about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if something is found that profound, what makes you think it would still be there when you followed behind with cameras?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, because I think that the nature of the Giza Plateau is that everybody seems to know what's going on there.
		And, you know, for every guy giving an order, there are nine guys digging with Galabeaz, and those nine guys have got families and cousins, and the word seems to get out.
		And I just believe that if they get in there, that the word will get out at least that they got in there.
		Now, you may be right.
		They may suppress it.
		They may sit on the whole thing, and we're not going to get in there.
		Or we may get in there and it may be empty, which is why Tom Danley and I are doing what we're doing, because we believe that there may be several ways to find this information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. DeBeck's radar study of the chamber below the Sphinx, you said that it showed rubble.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		That's what he said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My question was, was the radar really definitive enough to be an absolute surety that it was rubble?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		No.
		Debecki said that his interpretation was that the chamber, he said there was definitely a different consistency of the rock, leading him to believe that it had been excavated.
		And he felt that perhaps the ceilings had collapsed or stuff like that.
		He felt that he was getting the kind of reading he sometimes got from an incomplete landfill.
		That was his original statement in 1991.
		Now, there is no clear way of knowing, short of drilling a hole down there, to find out what's really there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is no valid reason not to drill that hole, given the so then so then the statement about rubble is at least in part conjecture.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is in part conjecture, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, the fact that there is a chamber there is not conjecture.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Not according to Tom DeBecky.
unidentified		All right.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		He believes it's there.
		He believes his instruments prove it.
		And again, you know, that the government position is that they drilled holes in 1978.
		But I asked Zahi a straight question in Virginia Beach when he was speaking.
		And I said, how deep were the holes?
		And he said, three meters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, that's correct, yes.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		And that's not deep enough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Bora Saeed.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		This is Karen in Houston.
		How are you, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		I've got a question for you, gentlemen, and a little bit of a statement intermingled in here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Okay, you answered part of it just now when you said that Dr. Hawass was there in Virginia Beach.
		What kind of credit does he give Edgar Casey for his comments and insight into the pyramids and the Sphinx?
		I mean, if he's a believer, more or less, then he would understand, you know, that in the earlier Casey writings also, he said that the pyramid was a place of initiation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really think my answer is I don't think Zahi has a lot of respect for that, but I can't speak for Boris Boris.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, he didn't.
		He certainly didn't mention the word Edgar Casey down there in his talk that I heard.
		He was talking about stuff they found, findings, and all of that sort of thing.
		But he has always denied, steadfastly denied any evidence of a chamber under those fogs.
		He has been firm on that.
		He doesn't believe the radar and he doesn't believe the seismic stuff.
unidentified		Right.
		But if you take it step by step, the way Casey unfolds that area and the use of the area, and he's very specific.
		And also, since Edgar Casey was also very avidly, every year of his life, he read the Bible through, you know, completely from top to bottom every year for his life.
		I mean, he also tied in with Scripture where, like, Moses was trained in the mysteries of Egypt.
		And many times it mentions in scripture, you know, over and over, where Joseph and Mary fled to Egypt.
		And there is quite a tie-in there between what we are getting in scripture and what Edgar Casey has said about that area.
		And if the information is under the Sphinx, as he says, given Casey's background also in the Masonic order, I don't know.
		But I think this ties in maybe with a peacemaker.
		Those who would have such information would have to have the right, what was the word that you used a while ago?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, understanding.
unidentified		Understanding.
unidentified		That's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		Thank you.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I would believe that.
		I think that's a valid point.
		I wouldn't dispute that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that Zahia was unreasonably ignores anything that is in the slightest unscientific and leans toward the metaphysical?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think he's got a bias against that, a natural bias as a scientist?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think that's a fair statement.
		I don't know if I would categorize it as a bias.
		I think that he just thinks that, I mean, when we originally started our project in 95, it was called Legends of the Sphinx.
		And he spent hours telling me some wonderful legends, everything from King Solomon to lions leaping out from under the Sphinx to guard the dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Legends, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But when it really gets down to it.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		When it really gets down to it, the man is a scientist.
		The man believes in what he finds.
		He believes in archaeology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What he can lay his hands on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly right.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		He does not embrace anything otherworldly or other dimension.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Metaphysical.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Nothing metaphysical, right?
		And I mean, that doesn't make him any different from Mark Lehner or any of the other scientists I've met since I've been working on this project.
		They're all pretty steadfast.
		I mean, even Robert Schock was a little bit, we used to call it the A-word.
		If anybody mentioned Atlanta, Schock used to get up and leave the room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Bora Said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, my name is Grace, and I'm 14.
unidentified		My mom wanted me to call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Grace, you're going to have to really get into the phone and yell at us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Rancho Cugamonga, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And I'm 14, and my mom wanted me to call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Because for a long time, I've always thought there would be a library under the Sphinx.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And I always thought there was a stairway leading down to the library.
		And it wasn't built underground, but it was built on top of the ground.
		And at the time it was built, it was on top the ground.
		But it was covered by sand because of strong winds and as time passed.
		And I was wondering if this was like scientific.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, they've done.
		Okay, we'll answer your question.
		I would presume that Dr. Dubecki has done a great deal of ground-penetrating radar work in a circle surrounding the area where he's found this chamber looking for something like this young lady just talked about.
unidentified		Right.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		There's nothing that I have ever seen in any of his work.
		Zeb Coleman, the great Israeli bioenergist and psychic, suggested that there were steps leading down to a chamber and then steps leading down to yet another chamber.
		And I think in some of the stuff that Jim Hertok has, Dr. Hertok has uncovered, alludes to different levels beneath the Sphinx and inverted pyramids and in water and all sorts of wonderful stuff.
		We did find in our scientific investigations that the land fell away in front of the Sphinx and that it made there was some evidence for the fact that the Sphinx was sitting on what would amount to have been a cliff.
		And then it was gradually all silted in or sanded in from the flow of the Nile.
		But I don't know anything about a staircase going down.
		I wouldn't dispute it.
		There may have been.
		I mean, I think all that terrain was different when the Sphinx was built.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you are on the air with Boris Said.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello, this is Walter in West Chicago.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, West Chicago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Walter.
unidentified		Yeah, you want the secret to the pyramids?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we do.
unidentified		The secret is the seven chords of the ancient scriptures.
unidentified		You know what a chord is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		A chord is a tone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know you can do a chord on a piano.
unidentified		Yeah, right.
		I was told that that's the secret to the pyramids, the seven chords of the ancient scriptures.
		And that would be the answer to your problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that would be off into the category of the acoustic expert, and I wouldn't be able to answer that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know anything about that, Boris?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Not a thing.
		I'd love to know what those chords are.
		I would love to see a diagram diagramming the chords that we could send to Tom Danley and say, here, Tom, run this through your computer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it may be you'll get down to some point about halfway down that tunnel toward the secret chamber, and there'll be something that won't open until the right cords are played.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		How do we find out what these seven cords are?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		That's a good question.
		First-time caller line, you're on the air with Boris Saeed.
unidentified		Good morning.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, where are you?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		My name is Rod.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm in Mississippi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		And pyramids have always been a fascinating subject with me.
		The nature of them themselves is kind of interesting, and I've actually done some scientific experiments with pyramids.
		In particular, I've scaled my models according to those of the great pyramids, such as you're discussing.
		And there's a correlation between them.
		The height is always 0.54 times the base, and it forms an angle of 47.36 degrees with the base.
		Now, that by itself is nothing.
		But the experiments that I performed is I calculated the volume, which would be the base squared times one-third the, I mean the, yeah, one-third times the base squared times the height, and formed a cube, which actually comes down to the cube is about 0.56 on each side times the base.
		But anyway, I made a cube and a pyramid at the same volume.
		I aligned the pyramid north, south, east, and west.
		And I put an orange, I cut an orange in half, put half the orange in the pyramid, half the orange in the cube.
		And I invite all the listeners to reproduce this experiment at home.
		Just make a scale model of the pyramids of Giza.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		And put an orange, put a glass of milk, and I put some bean sprouts in a moistened paper towel inside the pyramid, one inside the cube.
		Also a dull razor blade.
		After three weeks, the razor blade was sharp.
		The bean sprouts had grown about three times as fast as the ones in the cube.
		The milk was not sour.
		It was, in fact, yogurt.
unidentified		And the orange, although dry on the outside, was still juicy on the inside.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the cube?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		The cube?
		Oh, it was nasty.
		It was pretty disgusting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I have heard this.
		That was well described.
		Now, I have heard this same story from many, many people about pyramids anywhere, which may, by the way, account for why we have found pyramids all over the world.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, an orange is an organic thing.
		A human being is an organic thing.
		And it kind of makes you wonder, do you think there is anything to this business about the power of the pyramidal shape?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Do I?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do?
unidentified		Yes.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Without question.
		But whether the shape, whether it's just the shape or the shape in concert with the vibrations is another story.
		I think it has to do, I think it's the whole thing taken together, and I personally think, I mean, we're on the way to proving the stuff about the sonics.
		It's going to be interesting to me to see the comparison between what happens inside Palenque, inside Teotihuacan, and inside the Great Pyramid because the shapes are so different.
		It will be interesting to see if there's a correlation there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if there is indeed something to the metaphysical power, and I only use that word for lack of a better one, of the pyramid, then that may go to explain why we find pyramids, that shape, in fact, all over the world.
unidentified		Right.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
		I wouldn't doubt it for a minute.
		I don't think there's anything metaphysical about it.
		I think it's just an aspect of physics, as Michio Kapu would say, that we haven't come to understand yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so we ascribe it to magic, that which we don't understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Boris Said.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello, good morning.
		This is John in St. Louis, Missouri.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, John.
unidentified		I did some reading, and this is, again, very, very interesting topic.
		and you were talking about maybe having the pyramid of the tunnel open prematurely, then one of Casey's writings or books that I've read is saying that behind the door in the Hall of Records, there's a century and there are a type of guard that has been set up.
		Exactly.
		That is only high-minded people that are attuned with the planet or that are in tune with our...
		Yes, yes.
		And I think that it's going to take, even though they go in or they do find it, it's going to be rather interesting on who's going to be able to go in and maybe get to this Hall of Records because they know that I guess they will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me ask you this, Color, just for fun, okay?
		Let us say the tunnel is ready to be explored.
		Who would you imagine to have the better chance?
		The pragmatic scientist, the director of antiquities, Dr. Zahia Wass, or Boris Saeed, who is my guest tonight and would appear to have more of a, quote, understanding of the meaning of all this?
unidentified		I think Boris would probably someone that will not hide the truth, sort of like the Dead Sea Scrolls that are scattered and they're not letting them out.
unidentified		Something that, you know, he'll actually use it for good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think that Zahi might end up with a stake through his heart?
unidentified		Well, no, I don't think it'd be that serious, but I think it would be more or less they'll give him the message that, you know, no touch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No touch.
unidentified		No touch.
unidentified		It's going to be a certain individual, certain type of person to go in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And on that note, I'll have to say thank you.
		And we will do one more hour coming up in some markets from the high deserts.
		I'm Mark Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Coast AM.
unidentified		Coast AM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		TV.
unidentified		TV.
		for the Twin Cities and Beyond.
		I'm Art Bell Live on CN1500 KSTV.
		The Twin Cities and Beyond.
		To reach Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from east of the Rockies, dial 1-800-825.
		1-800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, call ART at 1-800-618-8255.
		That's 1-800-618-8255.
		First time callers, dial ART at area code 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell.
		Now again, here's Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here I am, and we have one line, marginally available, maybe.
		The first time caller line at Area Code 702-727-1222.
		Our guest is Boris Said, and he is preparing to go shortly back to Egypt, financed by an incredible videotape that he has produced about Egypt and about why we should be going back there that is available to you, and we'll tell you how to get it again shortly.
		Well, it is everywhere.
		Even Boris' web guy got a snappy, and he's going nuts.
		Everybody who gets one of these goes nuts when they realize they can take the best video and make skills out of it.
		It is a remarkable ability.
		Boris, you're back on the air.
		I'm here.
		All right, good.
		Lots of people want to talk to you.
		So, first time call online, you're on the air with Boris Aid.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
unidentified		This is Josh in Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Josh.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
unidentified		Good to talk to you finally.
unidentified		Hello, Boris.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Hi there, Josh.
unidentified		Hi.
		Grateful Deadhead fan here.
		And tonight I saw a video of Ten Keesy, Mary Prankster, climbing up one of the pyramids in Egypt, placing the Grateful Dead emblem on top of the pyramid.
		That was interesting.
		I just wanted to mention that before I go into my question.
		Do you think Zacharias Sitchin, author of Zacharias Sitchin's point in the book 12th Planet, he mentions the Hebrew word Nephilim?
		Would you think maybe that's behind the door that you guys are going to enter?
		Or whoever the high people go, or maybe they'll take a Grateful Deadhead with them to that opening, perhaps, or something like that even.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		Zach's work is very compelling.
		I don't know what's behind that door.
		I'm the film documentarian.
		I'm trying to keep clear of agendas and out of the line of fire politically here.
		And I'm going to try and get it open and say, okay, guys, what do you think it is?
		I'm steadfastly neutral here.
		But I think that Zach may be right.
		That may be what's back there.
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, whatever that is.
		My suggestion would maybe take a couple good musicians with you or some really open-minded healer-type people who are holders of quartz crystals or even amethyst crystals or many of the minerals that are on this earth.
		Because, I mean, who knows what's really down there or up there?
		Maybe that other caller said there's another dimension.
		You know, that could very well be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could be a transportation.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the last question we answered, Art, before the end of the hour, the lady said something about people being at the right vibratory, people being in tune, in harmony with the earth.
		If you go back to what Tom Downey was talking about, maybe that's what you did in the pyramid, was you got yourself into the right sort of harmonic relationship to the earth, and then you went in the tunnel.
		And maybe it's maybe whether Za'i Hawaz lies in the box or I lie in the box or Art Bell lies in the box or John Anthony West, we all get the same kind of a buzz and in we go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could be just that simple.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could be that simple.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I like to stay away from this sort of hierarchical approach to I'm more enlightened than you are.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I think you can get a lot of trouble that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe the tunnel will find out who is and who is not enlightened.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, that is certainly a possibility.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I can tell you this, that if somebody says we're going to open the tunnel, I'm going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Enlightened or not?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, enlightened or not, and you can write on my tombstone, he almost made it.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		He got closer than most.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll bear that in mind, Boris.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Boris Said.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Hello?
unidentified		We're here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
		Going once.
		Going twice.
		Gone.
		East of the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Boris Said.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, how are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just fine.
unidentified		Good morning, gentlemen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Peoria, Illinois.
		All right.
		Tim.
		I apologize first.
		I don't know if this has been covered or not.
		I don't get to listen to the program from start to finish.
		I'm working.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
unidentified		But someone had said that a gentleman had also said that only the right person at the right time could enter this tunnel or this hidden room, the secret room.
		Do you think that maybe it could be that these were built as like a legend, like that some Aborigines perform or people of real deep thought and religion perform that not of something that is going on when it's built, but of something that they believe will happen.
		Do you understand what I'm saying?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure that I do.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		you there, Arch, help me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm here, but I'm not sure I understand either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Caller, you want to rephrase it, please?
unidentified		Um well, I'm I'm trying, I'm losing my train of thought here.
		Um not so much that it was built, the pyramids were built and the tunnel was built for a certain purpose at the time that it was built, but for something that was going to happen in the future.
		Like Art, with your book, The Quickening, you and a lot of your other guests talk about something that is taking place now, something that is going to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, if it was built by others, people from elsewhere, then what you are suggesting is certainly a possibility.
		Right.
		If, in fact, it was built by people here on Earth, then I cannot imagine such an unbelievable endeavor would be undertaken without immediate reason.
unidentified		Right.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
unidentified		Well, if they had, everybody talks about their advanced technology then, or technology that we don't understand, that we haven't tapped into.
unidentified		If they had that and they had this knowledge or this technology, then they would know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
		But again, it is the great mystery.
		We don't know whether it's built by people who were just in Egypt 4,000 or 5,000 years ago or whether it was built 12,000 years ago by people from elsewhere.
		And so your question bears on which of those is true.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And it's a speculation.
		It could be, I mean, anything could be true.
		What I'm trying to do, as I say, I repeat trying to do, is focus my attention on what we can determine, which is what are the possible reasons for this thing?
		What are the possible effects of its being?
		It is unquestionably there.
		It's one of the most extraordinary monuments on the face of the earth, structures on the face of the earth.
		What does it mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boris, I'll ask you the straight-out question.
		I love...
		Am I what?
		Have you seen the movie Contact?
		Yes, I have.
		All right.
		Oh, great.
		Do you remember the part where the question was asked of Jodi Foster, is this worth dying for?
		The opportunity to go on that machine.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is the opportunity to go down that tunnel and find out what might be in that chamber worth dying for?
unidentified		Of course.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Of course, because it hasn't been proved to me yet that dying is anything other than another life experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I've lived my whole life not so much in, you know, with no regard for the possibility of dying, but I think that death is only a catastrophe in a three-dimensional world.
		And if we're in a three-dimensional world, then I might just as well be dead because it can't be a three-dimensional world.
		Ask Michio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that is absolutely correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you are on the air with the fearless Boris Saeed.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Jerry in Anchorage, listening to the mighty K-E-NI.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anchorage, Alaska, yes, sir.
unidentified		I've got two questions.
		The second question, which is in two parts.
		Question one.
		Art, do you remember that chamber that, that passageway they found inside the pyramid that's about eight inches square?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Yes, Boris can tell you about that.
		What about it?
unidentified		Do you think that maybe instead of it being meant to enter by humans, maybe a cat would go through it?
unidentified		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The ancient Egyptians certainly worshipped cats.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And my second question is...
		My second question is, if this hollow records or whatever is found underneath the Sphinx is found, then the knowledge contained, if the knowledge contained and found there would be so radical as to change the government systems on the planet of Earth and cause such chaos,
		what would happen?
		Could that possibly be what starts the seven years of tribulation?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The answer would have to be yes.
		It could be.
		Boris?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, we did this thing on dating the Sphinx, okay?
		And I think we proved pretty conclusively that the Sphinx was a lot older, scientifically.
		I don't see anybody burning any textbooks.
		I don't see the academic community accepting this knowledge.
		I think if we get into this chamber and there's a big sign that says, you know, God is alive and living in Lodi, New Jersey, I don't think the world is going to suddenly go to Lodi and bow down.
		In other words, I don't think that our society is so malleable that it's going to change directions 180 degrees or even 5 degrees according to something that we find in Egypt.
		I think it takes a long time to make this ship come about.
		And that's one of the reasons why, I mean, absolutely, all these things certainly are possible, but I don't believe that we're going to find something which is suddenly going to make everybody in the world turn 180 degrees.
		And certainly I don't think it's going to have any effect on religion, which is basically an abstract kind of a system of meditation.
		Isn't it?
		I mean, it certainly is abstract.
		I can't imagine you're going to find a tablet down there that says, stop believing in God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't believe that either, Boris, but I do believe that the Hall of Records could reveal a reality that predates our knowledge of God a couple of thousand years ago.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I think that would be fabulous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As imparted by Jesus, and that would be real trouble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Real trouble.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it would.
		But I think that we're in real trouble to begin with.
		just a question of degree.
		I think if we can come out of this whole search for knowledge with a better understanding of how to survive, a lot of people may, you know, may be able to do something else with their bomb shelters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you are on the air with Boris Said.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		This is Sharon from Georgia.
		Hi, Sharon.
		Hi, how y'all doing?
		Well, I've been thinking about this.
		You know how there was always the curse on the tombs when anybody went in there, they got sick, or a supposed curse?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, not supposed.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		There was a curse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was a curse, and there were people who died.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boris will tell you about that in a minute.
unidentified		Okay, well, maybe that has something to do with the sinks, too, because maybe there's something radioactive in there or something, and anybody with knowledge better take a Geiger counter in there or something, you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, whatever it is that's in there may not be detectable by a Geiger counter, but Boris, why don't you tell us the story of the opening of the tomb?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is really more properly an Egyptologist yarn, but there was this man named Carter who opened, who found the tomb of Tutankhamun after years and years and years of searching.
		And they opened the tomb, and it was filled, as we all know, with riches.
		It's one of the most extraordinary finds of all time.
		And six of his closest associates, including his backer, Lord Carnabran, died of mysterious ailments.
		I mean, one guy was bitten by some sort of bug, and I mean, these six people died of all sorts of mysterious diseases, and they all died, apparently, like within a year of the opening of the tomb.
		So there's a lot to be said about the reality of what we're calling a curse.
		Certainly it's possible.
		I mean, there are a lot, more people believe in curses than don't believe in curses in this world.
		So I believe that that could be absolutely valid.
		There could be some sort of a psychic thing that's been put on these tombs and put on all of these places.
		But I think we have to push on in spite of it and just hope that the answer will be there.
		I don't think we should be deterred by stuff like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Boris Saeed.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in Oklahoma City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oklahoma City.
		All right.
		Speak up good and loud for us and ask your question.
unidentified		Well, I have two questions, really.
		One is you keep talking about vibrations.
		And I read a book, it's been a good while, though, that there's some kind of tomb in Egypt there that it can be only lit up by the sun only one certain time of a year when the sun's at a certain angle.
		And all the rest of the time, you know, it don't ever light up the whole town.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, that's Indiana Jones stuff, or is there something to that, Boris?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		No, there is something to that.
		There is a room in the Karnak Temple in which there is a fabulous statue of Sekhmet, and the sun only shines through a crack in the ceiling and illuminates the statue on one day of the year.
		There's also the famous Holy of Holies at Abu Simbel, which is, of course, a temple that was moved.
		And there's one day of the year, I believe, the 21st of October, when the sun, when it rose, lit up the very depths of that temple.
		That's absolutely valid.
unidentified		And the second question is, you keep talking about a library supposedly in that chamber and stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Hall of Records, yes.
unidentified		Have you ever wondered what kind of language it would be in?
unidentified		If it would be in like a hieroglyphics or would it be like a Phoenician curiform or something?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a very, very good question.
		If it's hieroglyphics, they're going to be able to decipher it.
		If it's in something that is indecipherable, then I'm afraid the answer points towards something we may not want to know about, Boris?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		If you were to ask me to pick a language, I'd pick mathematics.
		I'd pick numbers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The most common language of all.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		I think if you look at what's happening with the crop circles and all of that sort of stuff, there's a geometry involved.
		And with Richard Hoagland's stuff, the stuff that makes it believable is the geometry and the mathematics.
		So that would be my bet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hoagland, as you know, is very suspicious that whatever we find over there will have been found or investigated or removed by somebody before we can get to it.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
		I know Richard well, and that's been his thesis all along.
		He may be right, but so what?
		I mean, that doesn't mean, how does that alter our course?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quite correct.
		Boris, hold tight.
		We'll be right back to you.
		It is the bottom of the hour.
unidentified		It's been a too long time with an old peace of mind.
unidentified		And I'm ready for the time to get better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		is crystal.
unidentified		The End I've got to tell you, I've been wrapping my brain, hoping to find a way out.
		I've had enough of this continued rain.
		Changes are coming, no doubt.
		It's been a too long time with no peace of Mind, and I'm ready for the time to get better.
		Oh, my God.
		I hate the world today.
		You're so good to me, I know that I can't change.
		Tried to tell you, but you look at me like maybe I'm an angel underneath, innocent and sweet.
		Yesterday I cried, but it's then relieved to see the softest side.
		I can understand how you'd be so confused.
		I don't envy you.
		I'm a little bit of everything.
		I'm always, I'm a lover, I'm a child, I'm a martyr, I'm a sinner, I'm a thing.
		I do not feel ashamed of your help, I'm your dream.
		I'm nothing in the dream.
		I'm young.
		Artfeld is taking your calls on the wildcard line at Area Code 702-727-1295.
		That's Area Code 702-727-1295.
		First-time callers may reach Art at Area Code 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bells.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All of this probably even true of Cleopatra.
		What do you think?
		I'm your house, I'm your dream I'm nothing in between You wouldn't want it any other way Depends on the day, I'd say.
		You really can't lose because you buy it and use it.
		And if in 90 days it does not do precisely what I say, you get all your money back.
		Ironclad guarantee.
		1-800-406-0469.
		Once again, here is Boris Aid.
		Boris?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've done very well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We are in the stretch run here.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, your videotape is absolutely astounding.
		I've got a copy, so now I can tell the audience that.
		I watched it stem to stern.
		They will love it.
		How do they get it?
unidentified		1-800-243.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		243.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		1-438.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1-4-3-8.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's $25 plus $3 shipping and handling.
unidentified		Right.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		And all the contributions, they are donations.
		They all go directly and specifically towards our efforts to get back over there this spring and get that tunnel open.
		I'm going to take 20 people with me as witnesses.
		They're going to go at 50% of a normal rate, which is our film crew rate with Egypt Air and the local Wohenpic Hotel over there, which is the five-star hotel.
		Two people are going to go absolutely free of the 20.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they're really financing the expedition.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And 20 of their number are going to come over and be witnesses to what we find.
		Incidentally, I should say that in addition to that 800 number, if you're in Seattle, which is where I am, or outside the U.S., it's 425-455-1053.
		425-455-1053.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you're in Seattle or outside the U.S. When can they call these numbers?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Anytime.
		It's a 24-hour service.
		I think they have an answering service on at night, but it's a 24-hour fulfillment service.
		You leave your credit card number or whatever, and they send you the tape.
		And you can either buy it by credit card or you can order by fax, by mail.
		You can send them a check or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		All right.
		Here we go.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		$25 plus $3 shipping and handleing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time call online.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air with Bora Said.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're welcome.
		Right now?
		Yes.
		We don't screen calls.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on.
unidentified		Super.
		I'm Dan.
		I'm calling from Vancouver.
		Okay, Dan.
		What I'm asking is probably something bizarre and probably makes no sense to both of you.
		But I'm just wondering if maybe the chambers is something from, like some people don't like to talk about extraterrestrials that probably came here in the past.
		And maybe there was a chamber where they kind of adapted to our earth before they felt comfortable enough to wander among us.
		Like, for example, the different races that we have, they all seem to be from different areas.
		And I'm just wondering if that chamber is maybe were used in that respect.
		And also, do you think of other pyramids?
		Do they have chambers alike?
		And would their frequencies or resonance be connected to the main one there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, opinions are like pyramids.
		They're all over the world.
		And yours is fine.
		Mine, I think my opinion varies between two possibilities.
		One is that, yes, all of that was put there by somebody or somebody's from somewhere else.
		I consider that to be a 50% possibility, along with the possibility that ancients here on Earth put it there so that we might know how to avoid what seems to be a coming event or cataclysm, if you will.
		Boris?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Why not?
		I think that's as good a theory as any.
		Again, I believe that there were people that lived in other places or beings that lived in other places.
		I can't imagine we're alone in the universe.
		Again, I'm trying really hard as a documentarian to focus on what is demonstrable, what basically we can convey to people and what people can understand.
		And I think any of these speculations are valid.
		If you ask me what I believe, yes, I believe that there were beings from other planets, other worlds, if you like, who were here for whatever reason.
		I think fact fiction stuff is really very interesting.
		So is some of Von Daniken's stuff for that matter.
		I mean, there's all sorts of valid speculations as to where all this stuff goes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, one thing that I ran into when I was in Egypt that I'm hard-pressed to explain until I thought about it a little bit is the tombs of the workers.
		Now, I saw them.
		I was there.
		I walked among them.
		And this is where the people who actually built the pyramids are buried.
		Now, that doesn't mean that they did it alone.
		That doesn't mean that there was not intervention that allowed them to build what otherwise, even with thousands of workers, would be literally impossible.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so when I saw these tombs, I thought, okay, here it is.
		This is the explanation.
		People built them.
		Obviously, people built them.
		But it does not answer all the questions.
		Not by a long shot.
		Not even with that many people.
		Can you imagine how they were put together?
		There's simply no acceptable scientific explanation for that.
		Even Zahia Wass admits that.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He admits that.
		He says, yeah.
		But we don't know how they did it.
		And so that would indicate to me that maybe they were directed and assisted.
		Just my little theory.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't disagree with that.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, to the Rockies, you're on the air with Bora Saeed.
unidentified		Hi, guys.
		This is Debbie.
		I'm from Denver.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Debbie.
unidentified		And I'm wondering, you know, you were just in Egypt and you were in that sarcophagus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And Greg Braden talks about that those things simulated the zero points that he sees us heading towards with the zero magnetics and increased frequency, the base resonant frequencies.
unidentified		Did you feel something maybe akin to something that we're heading towards when you were in there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		had no great revelation if that's what you mean what I felt I cannot yet put words to but it was a sort of a I don't What I felt, I felt in every fiber of my being, my whole body.
		There was no question about it, but I experienced no out-of-body stuff.
		I experienced no revelation or anything like that.
		But something was definitely going on.
		I'm sorry, that's insufficient.
		One day I'll figure out how to say it all.
unidentified		Well, maybe we all will.
		And one of the things that I'm wondering about, about getting into this Hall of Records, when they talk about the right people going in, Greg also talks about being able to maintain a certain frequency level in our bodies based on emotions and that sort of thing.
		And if maybe that was a tuning device, I like some of the ancient initiates went through that and they were tuned to things that we were going to be experiencing here and now.
		And if maybe that is a prerequisite to being able to enter into that hall of record.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that certainly, thank you, is exactly what Edgar Casey has said.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		That's what a lot of callers have said tonight.
		I mean, that seems to be like a consensus of what's going to happen.
		And I wouldn't disbelieve it.
		I mean, that's coming from an awful lot of different people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess they feel it too.
		And so one really has to wonder if Zahi leads the way how he'll fare.
		I'll ask him that.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I think Zahi's getting a bad rap here.
		Zahi may believe, you know, I mean, Zahi, let's face it, Zahi has got a very, very difficult position and a very volatile job.
		And who knows what he really believes?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you what he said.
		We stood on the side of the Sphinx by that little hole that goes down three meters.
		Okay.
		And I asked Zahi directly, I've got it on tape, I said, Zahi, what do you think is beneath the Sphinx?
		And he stopped cold and he said, nothing.
		I think there is nothing down there.
		He said, but I understand the world's people need a reason to hope.
		And he said, that's fine.
		But if you ask me what I think is here, nothing.
		He said, not one grain of sand, not one artifact has ever been found on the entire plateau to suggest there was Atlantis or anything else ever present.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		But that's the party line, or that's what present-day academia believes.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		And if I were the director of the Giza Plateau and working for the Egyptian government, that's what I would say, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Publicly.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Publicly, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, do you think that Zahi privately has more of a metaphysical outlook on it?
		In other words, let me finish.
		An understanding.
		Does Zahi have an understanding that would allow him to enter if Casey is correct?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		My personally believe, I'm going to have my head chopped off.
		Yes, that's what I believe.
		I believe that Zahi is much more open than people give him credit for being.
		And I think Zahi is in a terribly difficult position with a lot of pressure on him.
		And I think he's saying just exactly what the job calls for.
		And I mean, there's a job ethic involved with being the director of the plateau.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		But I believe that if I demonstrate to Zahi that something's there, Zahi is going to Zahi is going to embrace it.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I think he's open to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Bora Said.
unidentified		Hello.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
		My name is Carol.
		I'm calling from Sacramento.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Carol.
unidentified		I am a little nervous because I always have microphonitis.
		But I wanted to tell you guys, first of all, I'm kind of amazed that you have not discussed the Roman historian Josephus and what He said about the pyramids being erected by shepherd kings who came out of the East.
		They were Arabian.
		According to his own records, anyone's library goes to see his writings.
		He says that.
		And also in Isaiah 19, 19, the Lord says in Isaiah 19, 19, quote, I have placed signs and wonders in the middle of Egypt and at the border thereof, even unto this day.
		Now, the phrase unto this day is a code phrase for the last days.
		Okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know that?
unidentified		From studying the Bible and studying things around the Bible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what passage would indicate that that is a code for the last days?
unidentified		Well, the word is hermeneutics, okay, and it's a long word, but unto this day means the last of the days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, if we take then what she said literally, I would say that we are close to that time based on what's going on in the world right now and the way we're headed ecologically.
		If this is all to be discovered in the last days, then I think that will be pretty soon.
		That's just my opinion.
		Wild Cardline, you're on the air with Boris Said.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Eric.
		I was just wondering, Boris, has anyone ever taken the pyramid?
		Obviously, it's on an angle.
		Has anyone ever extended the lines out using, obviously, the Earth's round?
		And what I'm suggesting is that there's the pyramid as this point, and then taking the lines or the angles of the pyramid and taking them all the way out to the Earth and see what geometric pattern or where the points would meet?
		I don't know, does that make any sense?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		It makes sense.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I would think if anybody's ever done anything like that, it would be Richard Hoagman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know of it.
unidentified		Because even on that one illustration that you have on your webpage that you just put out, that symbol that people see, it looks like a tetrahedron.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		You know, when I look at that, if I just put that little point of that, like say the circle is the Earth, and I put that little point, instead of being inside the circle, just a little bit outside the circle.
unidentified		You see what I'm saying?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
unidentified		I wonder if anyone's ever done that.
		And I know I don't think the Earth's perfectly round, so you would probably have to do some calculating with that.
		I just wonder if anyone ever did that.
		And I'd be interested to see where those points, what was at the end of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Boris was correct.
		The person you'd want to ask about that would be Richard Hoagland.
		He's done a lot of work in that area.
		Isa, the Rockies, you're on the air with Boris Aid.
		Where are you, please?
unidentified		Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Texas, okay.
unidentified		The Hall of Information or the Hall of this Library, what makes y'all think it exists?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, nobody knows for sure.
		Edgar Casey said that there would be a chamber found beneath the left paw of the Sphinx, and sure enough, it has been found.
		So, you know, that's better than, that's a pretty good wild guess, wouldn't you say?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		We know there's a chamber there because the radar and the ground-penetrating radar and the seismic stuff shows us a chamber.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		We don't know what's there.
unidentified		Well, has there been a practical use for pyramids throughout the century besides tombs?
unidentified		Haven't they been just used for tombs?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, they were never used for tombs.
unidentified		What were they built for?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, that's the $64 million question.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		That's what the whole thing is about here.
unidentified		Hand they been invaded and broken into around the earth?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		What's been found in them?
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nothing.
		You'll see, that's the great myth.
		The great myth is that pyramids are burial tombs.
		And that's absolutely incorrect.
		So if you get anything out of the program tonight, get that.
		And that should start you wondering, well then, what are they?
		And that's what this is all about.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Boris Said.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Mike at KES Country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		It seems like years ago, I remember hearing Dr. Gene Scott mention that at the bottom of the descending passageway in the Great Pyramid, there was a bottomless pit that they never found the bottom to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not that I know of.
unidentified		I was wondering if your guest would have any clues to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know anything about a bottomless pit.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		It's a devil of a long way down there.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you, as it is, I believe, 176 paces up to the king's chamber, it's something closer to 300 down to that pit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but that's not bottomless.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		It's not bottomless.
		I've been down there.
		It's a very claustrophobic experience, and it's a long way down, and it seems to be three times as far coming back up.
		But it's not bottomless.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, nor is it a, I mean, I guess you could say a devil of a distance.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but not even.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		It certainly has a bottom.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildguard Line, you're on the air with Boris Aid.
unidentified		Hello.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off.
unidentified		Yes, thank you.
		Well, I just want to say what a delight it is to hear this approach about this subject.
		This is Alan and Eugene.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there.
unidentified		And the information about perhaps some kind of guards at the doorway or passageway into this, there's a Native American story that seemed to come to mind about that, about white buffalo calf woman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And the two men who spotted her, one was essentially destroyed by his lust, his greed, in meeting her, and the other had a reverent attitude.
unidentified		And he was rewarded with, I guess, the knowledge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		So that, to me, that seems like a good analogy for what might happen when this tunnel is explored.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, caller, where did you say you were?
unidentified		Eugene.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Eugene, Oregon.
		If You had the opportunity to go down the tunnel, do you think you would be qualified to do it?
		Would you do it fearlessly?
unidentified		Well, I guess that's I think I would.
unidentified		I'll tell you what I think I would hope to be able to do is to do it with a sense of reverence, wonder, and some joy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, very good.
		I think that's.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I would agree with that, and I never said I'd go down there fearlessly.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		I just said given the opportunity to go, I'd go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		The videotape will explain it all to you, and you can get it by calling 1-800-243.
		243-1438.
		I've got the numbers.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1-800-243-1438.
		Or if you're in California, I'm sorry, if you're in Washington or maybe out of the country, you can call area code 425-455-1053.
		Boris, we're out of time.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, thanks again, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
		Thank you.
		We'll do it again, and I guess pretty soon, Boris, we'll know.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hope so.
		I hope so.
		I hope you can join us when we go over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Either that or I will read your eulogy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, Boris.
boris said ▲ ● ▼		Good night, Art.

▲